# Thoughts on the work triangle idea



## Rocklobster (Apr 20, 2014)

Do you have a work triangle in your kitchen? Do you think it makes a difference? Right now, I am an apartment dweller for the first time since the early 80's and my kitchen is a challenge. It's a good thing that I have been cooking for years under different conditions because the set up ain't worth crap.  No room, all in one line, apartment sized oven, no ventilation hood. 

Got this from Wiki, anybody care to add anything??



The kitchen work triangle principle is used by kitchen designers and architects when designing residential kitchens:[2][3]


No leg of the triangle should be less than *4 feet (1.2 m)* or more than *9 feet (2.7 m).*
The sum of all three sides of the triangle should be between *13 feet (4.0 m)* and *26 feet (7.9 m).*
Cabinets or other obstacles should not intersect any leg of the triangle by more than 12 inches (30 cm).
If possible, there should be no major traffic flow through the triangle.
A full-height obstacle, such as a tall cabinet, should not come between any two points of the triangle.
 Besides the work triangle itself, there are several rules of thumb to consider when planning a kitchen:[2][3]


As measured between countertops and cabinets or appliances, work  aisles should be no less than 42 inches (110 cm) for one cook, or 48  inches (120 cm) for multiple cooks.
A sink should have a clear counter area of at least 24 inches  (61 cm) on one side, and at least 18 inches (46 cm) on the other side.
A refrigerator should have a clear counter area of at least 15  inches (38 cm) on the handle side; or the same on either side of a  side-by-side refrigerator; or the same area on a counter no more than 48  inches (120 cm) across from the refrigerator.
A stove or cooktop should have a clear 15 inches (38 cm) area on one side, and at least 12 inches (30 cm) on the other side.
At least 36 inches (91 cm) of food preparation area should be located next to the sink.
In a seating area where no traffic passes behind the diner, allow 32  inches (81 cm) from the wall to the edge of the table or counter; if  traffic passes behind the diner, allow 44 inches (110 cm) inches.


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Apr 20, 2014)

My kitchen breaks all of those rules.  IF I was to build a kitchen for myself I would have a work triangle.  I find it saves time and trouble.  And nothing stored over my head.


----------



## Addie (Apr 20, 2014)

I have a galley kitchen. Fridge and microwave next to the stove . Across from the stove is the sink. It is wide enough that I can reach both sides just by turning around and maybe taking one step. I do have overhead storage cabinets that are empty. I did have stuff stored over the stove with the ventilation hood. But little by little I have given the stuff away to my kids. So those two cabinets are empty. I do wish I had pull out shelves in the bottom cabinets. I have two very large counter tops on either side of my sink. One side I use to put clean dishes as I wash them. And I keep my large and small FP's on that side. On the other side I have my coffee maker , electric can opener and Kitchen Aid Mixer. I also keep my sugar and coffee canister on that side. Across from that side I have a small counter spot with a cabinet underneath. I keep my too canister with my wooden spoons and spatulas in, along with a salt and pepper shaker for the stove. I am not thrilled with the kitchen, but it works for me. I have plenty of drawers. No complaint there. In spite of all the items on my counter tops, I do have plenty of room to work. I can roll out a pie crust if need be. 

Spike put up some removable shelves right on the wall next to the small cabinet. I keep odd and end foods that I use every day. Seasonings, small flour canister for making gravy, etc. He also tiled the back of the stove and sink for me so it is much easier to clean instead of the painted wall. I have one of the larger kitchens in this building.


----------



## bethzaring (Apr 20, 2014)

I have enjoyed studying kitchen design for decades and I believe this is an ideal to strive for when designing a kitchen that works for you. The best book I have read on this subject is Sam Clark's "The Motion Minded Kitchen, Step by Step procedures for designing and building the kitchen you want with the space and money you have"

The Motion-Minded Kitchen: Sam Clark: 9780395349304: Amazon.com: Books

I also read "Cheaper by the Dozen" when I was quite young and those principles have stuck with and influenced me through out my life.

I have loved working in my new kitchen, which is based on these principles.


----------



## dcSaute (Apr 20, 2014)

my "triangle" is:
sink - prep/work area - cooktop

including the fridge or the oven in a triangle methinks is the harebrain idea of someone who has not yet heard of the theory: 'get your stuff out & ready'

if the stove is below the "cooktop" unit, no problem.

but when I'm fixing to fix something, I drag out all the ingredients into the prep area.  I'm not opening the fridge twenty times....

when I put something in the oven, it's going in "for good" - the oven is not something I need to access within half an arm's reach on a minute by minute basis.

basically, I reckon I have some disagreements with the experts-of-no-experience when it comes to zactly what should be in a triangle.....


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Apr 20, 2014)

Just love your kitchen Beth!  That large sweep of prep area beside the fridge is wonderful.


----------



## cave76 (Apr 20, 2014)

That's a great kitchen, Beth---- wish I had it.

At least I have *"The double-file kitchen (or two-way galley) has two rows of cabinets at opposite walls, one containing the stove and the sink, the other the refrigerator. This is the classical work kitchen."*

And there's just one way  in.

But my needs are different now that when I had no health problems and all the cabinets at the top are unused/empty. (No use storing other things in them, like blankets, for I'd never chance climbing on a step stool to get to them.)The cabinets below my knees are rarely used or used with great discomfort/pain.

I'm not really  complaining---- I like my apartment and it does have more cabinets etc than the typical, same price range apartment does. I do wish it had an oven at waist height---- but again I'm not complaining.


----------



## Kayelle (Apr 20, 2014)

Oh Beth, your newly completed kitchen is a *stunner,* and you deserve it!

We do have a "triangle kitchen" although not as beautiful, it works well for me and my souse chef. Steve likes to say we have a two a-- kitchen. lol

I once had a galley kitchen and it drove me nuts.


----------



## Mad Cook (Apr 20, 2014)

Rocklobster said:


> Do you have a work triangle in your kitchen? Do you think it makes a difference? Right now, I am an apartment dweller for the first time since the early 80's and my kitchen is a challenge. It's a good thing that I have been cooking for years under different conditions because the set up ain't worth crap. No room, all in one line, apartment sized oven, no ventilation hood.
> 
> Got this from Wiki, anybody care to add anything??
> 
> ...


My current kitchen is a galley. It has the triangle but the room's tiny - about 7 feet x 10 feet with a lot of unusable wall space and nowhere to put a table and chairs unless valuable cupboard space is sacrificed. I have a chair in there for sitting down between tasks but it's a nuisance and I have to move it to get into the cupboard.

My previous house was smaller than this one but the kitchen was the biggest room in the house - 15 feet x 15 feet - I didn't care about the triangle. A big extending table in the middle and a mixture of built-in cupboards and free standing furniture including my great grandmother's walnut chiffoniere and an arrangement called a "press" - drawers in the bottom 1/3 and a huge 3 shelf double cupboard on top for china, baking equipment, storing jams and chutneys, etc. I miss it.


----------



## Mad Cook (Apr 20, 2014)

dcSaute said:


> my "triangle" is:
> sink - prep/work area - cooktop
> 
> including the fridge or the oven in a triangle methinks is the harebrain idea of someone who has not yet heard of the theory: 'get your stuff out & ready'
> ...


With you on all of that. The problem is that most houses and therefore kitchens are designed by men who don't have much experience of working in one.


----------



## Addie (Apr 20, 2014)

I once had a kitchen with an island in the middle. The problem with that arrangement was every time I need something, it was always on the other side of the island from where I was standing.


----------



## Zagut (Apr 20, 2014)

Those are nice guide lines Rock but don't get hung up on inches and "right vs. wrong".

A kitchen is what works for you and the way you think and cook. We also have a great ability to adapt to what we have available and learn to use it.

I've done many kitchen rehabs and there are many done by designers that I wouldn't want myself. They look nice but I wouldn't want to function in them.

1. You will never have enough counter space. If you don't use it for kitchen stuff other crap will invade the space.

2. Storage will never be ideal but you put things where they make sense to you.

3. The flow of everyday life is the most important aspect in how a kitchen is used and that's different for each and everyone of us.


----------



## Addie (Apr 20, 2014)

Of all the tools in my kitchen, the following is my favorite. It allows me to rest and still reach items way above my head safely. It allow me to always be holding on when I need to reach something of the second shelf or higher.


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Apr 20, 2014)

Every kitchen needs a step stool.  Especially those of us who are vertically challenged.


----------



## bakechef (Apr 20, 2014)

As you can see I have a very small triangle, but it works really well.

I was convinced that I would hate my tiny 80's kitchen, but figured that we could live with it for a while since the rest of the house was near perfect.  I've grown to love being only one or two steps from each station.  I'm standing in the door facing the entry way and directly behind me, what used to be a coat closet is an equipment pantry.  In the kitchen to the right is a smaller pantry that houses all of our snacks and baking supplies.

Most kitchens can be made to work with a bit of creativity and keeping uncluttered.


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Apr 20, 2014)

I want to know what moron designed the kitchen in these apartments...the galley type kitchens are as wide as the door to outside, which is the back entrance of the apartments.  This constitutes the 4th wall in the horrible kitchen.


----------



## pacanis (Apr 20, 2014)

I have a kitchen* L*. It sucks. Some nights it becomes a *T*. That's when instead of hanging a left to the stove from where my fridge and sink are located I hang a right outside to the grill. It was a poorly laid out farm house. I think perhaps the bathroom came later, after the initial build. I would love a triangle. Just like Phil Jackson.


----------



## Zagut (Apr 20, 2014)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> I want to know what moron designed the kitchen in these apartments...the galley type kitchens are as wide as the door to outside, which is the back entrance of the apartments. This constitutes the 4th wall in the horrible kitchen.


 

The same kitchen designer who didn't include a step stool or at least a place to store one. 




Here's my kitchen BTW.


----------



## Mad Cook (Apr 20, 2014)

Zagut said:


> The same kitchen designer who didn't include a step stool or at least a place to store one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sensible size!


----------



## taxlady (Apr 20, 2014)

My kitchen is really badly designed. I have about 2.5' of counter on one side of the sink and ~3.5' on the other, but most of it is in a corner next to the stove. I have to reach to get at it. I also have 12" counter between the stove and fridge. I swear, it would take anyone who cooks a week to come up with this design if they were told to make it bad.

I use my portable dishwasher as a movable island and most prep is done on it. Some is done on the table in the dining room.


----------



## Zagut (Apr 20, 2014)

Mad Cook said:


> Sensible size!


 
Mad Cook I have no sense at all. 

The kitchen ended up the size it is because it's what was left in the plans.

The cabinets are  made from an old chicken coop we took apart and the appliance's are all from demo's of kitchens. 

Yes I'm a Sanford and Son kind of guy. 

Waste not want not is how I was raised. Not to mention I'm a cheap SOB.


----------



## Cheryl J (Apr 20, 2014)

Zagut....that is the kitchen of my dreams!  I love it, it's absolutely gorgeous. 

Bakechef, your kitchen is laid out exactly like mine!  Right down to the appliances being in the same place and all.  Above the sink in my kitchen is a window to the back yard, and behind the pic would be my dining room.

It's a small kitchen, but it works for me.  The only thing that I really, and I mean REALLY dislike, is the lower corner cabinets next to the range.  There are black holes in them , so deep that a person would have to practically climb in them to get to the space.   I keep very seldom used things in there, if anything at all.


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Apr 20, 2014)

Zagut said:


> The same kitchen designer who didn't include a step stool or at least a place to store one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is a beautiful kitchen!  I would love all that space.


----------



## Zagut (Apr 20, 2014)

Well Cheryl. I guess that you'll just have to marry me and your dreams will come true. 

Think you can handle and old grump?


----------



## Cheryl J (Apr 20, 2014)




----------



## Andy M. (Apr 20, 2014)

I don't have a triangle, I have an "L".


----------



## taxlady (Apr 20, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> I don't have a triangle, I have an "L".


Hmph. You can't just pretend the hypotenuse isn't there. Your triangle may have a very acute angle at the fridge end, but it's a triangle.


----------



## Cheryl J (Apr 20, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> I don't have a triangle, I have an "L".


 
Wow, very nice kitchen, Andy.


----------



## Andy M. (Apr 20, 2014)

Cheryl J said:


> Wow, very nice kitchen, Andy.




Thanks Cheryl.


----------



## Steve Kroll (Apr 21, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> I don't have a triangle, I have an "L".



My kitchen is almost the same as yours (I think we even have the same countertop) except flipped 180 degrees.

I agree with one of the previous posters who considered the prep area more important than the fridge as part of the triangle. I get everything I need out of the fridge before starting to cook, so it really isn't part of the equation for me. I'd rather have a clear path between the prep area and the sink and stove.


----------



## Chief Longwind Of The North (Apr 21, 2014)

My kitchen is arranged thusly;

Walk into the kitchen from the living room and to your immediate left is the gas range/oven.  To the right of that is a breakfast bar that sits between the dining room and kitchen.  It's about 4 foot long.  Then there's the opening to the dining room.  Above the breakfast bar is two overhead cabinets with fine dishes.  After the dining room opening, you run into a wall that runs east/west.  To the right is the refrigerator space, and another cabinet above that.  Then a knee wall and cabinets under it for another 3 feet, with a Formica counter top that can be used for storage of electric appliances (at least that's what it was designed for).  Then, I have both overhead and floor cabinets in the corner, again with Formica counter top working space.  Following that counter top, there is the kitchen double sink (stainless steel large sinks with a single faucet), then another more overhead cabinet, and the dishwasher on the floor.  There is also space under the sink.  Finally, one more right turn and cabinets above and below. to the kitchen opening.  Between the sink and the stove sides, in the middle of the room is a four by two butcher block table, with cutting boards on top.  I have ten cabinets all together, a butcher block table with storage underneath, and an overhead pot rack.  And I still have so much cooking stuff that I overfill the cabinets and part of the walk in pantry that I haven't even mentioned.  I have some things that fit in boxes because they won't fit in the spaces designed to hole it all.

If I could get DW to allow me to get rid of unused Tupperware, and one of the three sets of dishes, I might have space for the stuff that is used.  I also have a fridge in the dining room.  Somehow, it all still isn't big enough.  Who is it that said "He who has the most kitchen toys, wins."?

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


----------



## Sir_Loin_of_Beef (Apr 21, 2014)

I have a kitchen rectangle:

sink facing east, stove facing south, refrigerator facing west and counter/main work space facing north.


----------



## bakechef (Apr 21, 2014)

Cheryl J said:


> Zagut....that is the kitchen of my dreams!  I love it, it's absolutely gorgeous.
> 
> Bakechef, your kitchen is laid out exactly like mine!  Right down to the appliances being in the same place and all.  Above the sink in my kitchen is a window to the back yard, and behind the pic would be my dining room.
> 
> It's a small kitchen, but it works for me.  The only thing that I really, and I mean REALLY dislike, is the lower corner cabinets next to the range.  There are black holes in them , so deep that a person would have to practically climb in them to get to the space.   I keep very seldom used things in there, if anything at all.



Yup both lower cabinets have BIG black holes!  I try not to put much of anything in them because I may not ever see them again!  Over the sink is a window with a shelf where there is a slight pop out in the building so there is a HUGE window sill, more like a shelf.  I have my two vintage stand mixers on it along with some pretty serving platters on stands.

There is a second door right around that corner, on this side of the fridge where you can enter the dining room, so there are two entrances which is nice.


----------



## Cheryl J (Apr 21, 2014)

Yep, those black holes are a HORRIBLE kitchen design!   Your window above the sink sounds nice, BC, lots of room to hold things.


----------



## GotGarlic (Apr 22, 2014)

dcSaute said:


> my "triangle" is:
> sink - prep/work area - cooktop
> 
> including the fridge or the oven in a triangle methinks is the harebrain idea of someone who has not yet heard of the theory: 'get your stuff out & ready'
> ...



I agree with this  

I guess I have an L-shaped work space, or a long-angled triangle, if you prefer  I use the peninsula as the primary prep area because it faces the TV on the counter at the entrance to the kitchen. I love, love, love my kitchen. We remodeled it a few years ago, top to bottom. I do have a "black hole" lower corner cabinet, but my seldom-used baking items are in there. And I have a nice, light step stool that folds easily and fits into a pantry cabinet so I can reach the top cabinets.


----------



## Aunt Bea (Apr 22, 2014)

Zagut said:


> The same kitchen designer who didn't include a step stool or at least a place to store one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I really like your kitchen, but how do you keep the lids from falling off of your hanging pots and roasters???????


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Apr 22, 2014)

GotGarlic said:


> I agree with this
> 
> I guess I have an L-shaped work space, or a long-angled triangle, if you prefer  I use the peninsula as the primary prep area because it faces the TV on the counter at the entrance to the kitchen. I love, love, love my kitchen. We remodeled it a few years ago, top to bottom. I do have a "black hole" lower corner cabinet, but my seldom-used baking items are in there. And I have a nice, light step stool that folds easily and fits into a pantry cabinet so I can reach the top cabinets.



I thought I had the most magnets on a fridge...


----------



## GotGarlic (Apr 22, 2014)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> I thought I had the most magnets on a fridge...



Nope - I win!  Most of them are souvenirs from places we've visited.


----------



## Cheryl J (Apr 22, 2014)

Very nice kitchen, GG!


----------



## GotGarlic (Apr 22, 2014)

Thanks, Cheryl


----------



## Janet H (Apr 22, 2014)

I think that triangle concept has merit.  

My stove is under 4 feet from the sink and while it's OK when one person is in the kitchen, if there are two, one at the stove and another using the sink you need to be on extremely friendly terms as your backsides will be sharing the same space.  My fridge is more than 10 feet from the sink and I don't mind the extra steps. bad cell phone pics:


----------



## pacanis (Apr 22, 2014)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> I thought I had the most magnets on a fridge...


 







Like


----------



## Cheryl J (Apr 22, 2014)

Oooh, another nice kitchen, Janet!


----------



## Andy M. (Apr 22, 2014)

Janet H said:


> I think that triangle concept has merit.
> 
> My stove is under 4 feet from the sink and while it's OK when one person is in the kitchen, if there are two, one at the stove and another using the sink you need to be on extremely friendly terms as your backsides will be sharing the same space.  My fridge is more than 10 feet from the sink and I don't mind the extra steps. bad cell phone pics:




Nice kitchen, Janet.  Looks like you need a bigger wine rack.


----------



## Janet H (Apr 22, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> Nice kitchen, Janet.  Looks like you need a bigger wine rack.


LOL, maybe I just a cork screw and some free time to work on the overflow 


If I had this kitchen to do over again, I would raise the counter height an inch.  The standard is just a little too low for comfort.


----------



## Addie (Apr 22, 2014)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> I thought I had the most magnets on a fridge...



I have the most boring fridge front. Only Emergency information. Poo's phone number. Along with Winthrop's and the overnight nurse. My magnets are all from work. Nothing fancy but boy, are they strong. Some are clip ones to hold business cards of my doctors. The kids used to bring me ones from where they would go for vacation. They end up in a drawer. I do have a  pencil holder with a matching mirror that belonged to my granddaughter when she was in school. She kept it inside her locker. I always know where to look for a pen or pencil when I need one.


----------



## Zagut (Apr 22, 2014)

Aunt Bea said:


> I really like your kitchen, but how do you keep the lids from falling off of your hanging pots and roasters???????


 
Thank you Aunt Bea. My kitchen is a mishmash of parts collected tearing out others kitchens.

The way I keep the lids on is a tiny wire attached at the handle of the pot, looped around the knob/ handle of the top and then attached on the other handle of the pot. I don't use the hangers much so it's not a big PIA to unwire them when I do use them.


"Nice kitchen, Janet. Looks like you need a bigger wine rack."


Who doesn't need a bigger wine rack? 



Black Holes can be helped by a lazy Susan. Not perfect but you don't need to place 1/2 your body in to find something.



Refrigerator Magnets are an "Art Form". They say something about the folks who inhabit the space. I have a confirmed calendar magnet from 1998. I'm sure some are older My theory is if it sticks then it's good to go on my fridge.


----------



## Addie (Apr 22, 2014)

Zagut said:


> Black Holes can be helped by a lazy Susan. Not perfect but you don't need to place 1/2 your body in to find something.
> 
> Refrigerator Magnets are an "Art Form". They say something about the folks who inhabit the space. I have a confirmed calendar magnet from 1998. I'm sure some are older My theory is if it sticks then it's good to go on my fridge.



My sister had a Lazy Susan in her bottom and top cabinets. The top one so she could reach the stuff that would normally be in the back of the shelf. 

I used to have magnets all over my fridge doors. Then when it came time to remove them and clean the doors thoroughly, there were all these little circles and squares that were almost impossible to clean up. And it was a PITA to remove them and put them all back. So no more magnets unless they are to hold important information, like medical phone numbers. 

I remember as a child when we (as kids) had to do the dishes, we wiped off the table, stove front, and swept the floor. After we dried the dishes, we put them away. It was all part of "doing the dishes." There were no magnets on the fridge.


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Apr 22, 2014)

Beautiful Kitchen Janet...do you actually cook in it?  It looks too clean!


----------



## Oldvine (Apr 23, 2014)

We have a good sized kitchen with a work triangle leaving lots of space for a table and two eating bars.   I finally figured out that no matter how much planning goes into it, if a home cook is doing the cooking, everyone that comes to visit, friends or family, feels the need to stand in the middle of the planned work triangle and chat while the cook dodges around them in the work triangle.


----------



## dcSaute (Apr 23, 2014)

ours is pretty much a carbon copy of Janet's - I'd post a pix of the fridge magnets but VOILE! - ain't none!  sly ole SOB whot I am, I took a magnet along while shopping to ensure the stainless was _not_ the magnetic flavor....

as you can see, burgers & baked beans for din-din.


----------



## Janet H (Apr 23, 2014)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> Beautiful Kitchen Janet...do you actually cook in it?  It looks too clean!



I photoshopped out the clutter and grime  Today I'm making pecan brittle


----------



## taxlady (Apr 23, 2014)

Oldvine said:


> We have a good sized kitchen with a work triangle leaving lots of space for a table and two eating bars.   I finally figured out that no matter how much planning goes into it, if a home cook is doing the cooking, everyone that comes to visit, friends or family, feels the need to stand in the middle of the planned work triangle and chat while the cook dodges around them in the work triangle.


My kitchen gets crowded when there are more than two people in it and it's not great with two. My guests have learned to ask if they can come into the kitchen. I get very crabby otherwise. 

When I had a bigger kitchen, I made people sit at the kitchen table and assigned them chopping or peeling tasks. Those who didn't want to help learned to stay out of the kitchen.


----------



## GotGarlic (Apr 23, 2014)

Oldvine said:


> We have a good sized kitchen with a work triangle leaving lots of space for a table and two eating bars.   I finally figured out that no matter how much planning goes into it, if a home cook is doing the cooking, everyone that comes to visit, friends or family, feels the need to stand in the middle of the planned work triangle and chat while the cook dodges around them in the work triangle.



That's why I love the peninsula in my kitchen. I can shoo people out of the work area and they can still be in the kitchen. In front of, and to the right, of the peninsula is another counter, about 6 feet long, where I set up drinks and appetizers, so people can help themselves without coming into my space


----------



## GotGarlic (Apr 23, 2014)

dcSaute said:


> ours is pretty much a carbon copy of Janet's - I'd post a pix of the fridge magnets but VOILE! - ain't none!  sly ole SOB whot I am, I took a magnet along while shopping to ensure the stainless was _not_ the magnetic flavor....
> 
> as you can see, burgers & baked beans for din-din.



I love the tile between the cabinets and counters. Gorgeous!


----------



## Andy M. (Apr 23, 2014)

I keep guests on the far side of the peninsula which happens to be the dining area too.


----------



## LPBeier (Apr 23, 2014)

Nice kitchen, Andy!  Are those granite counter-tops?  I love the lower drawers by the fridge and stove!

I am not showing any pictures of my kitchen until we redo it.  It's itsy bitsy teeny weeny!


----------



## dcSaute (Apr 23, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> I keep guests on the far side of the peninsula which happens to be the dining area too.



and another vote for sink-prep-cook (g)

GG - the tile work... homespun.  yeah, hadda' make a splash


----------



## Andy M. (Apr 23, 2014)

LPBeier said:


> Nice kitchen, Andy!  Are those granite counter-tops?  I love the lower drawers by the fridge and stove!
> 
> I am not showing any pictures of my kitchen until we redo it.  It's itsy bitsy teeny weeny!




Thanks!  The countertops are "engineered stone".  Basically made of quartz in various colors, patterns, designs.  I chose it because it's harder, stronger and more carefree than marble or granite.  No sealing needed, almost as hard as a diamond and can handle hot pans right off the stove.

Here are some samples.  http://cambriausa.com/en/designs/design-palette/

The selection is much better than when I bought.  Ours is "Bristol Blue".


----------



## RPCookin (Apr 23, 2014)

I was more concerned with counter and storage space than any sort of triangle when we built our kitchen.  This photo shows that priority.  

This was the week we first moved stuff into the house, so there are no chairs at the island yet, and the packing plastic is still on the appliances.  No clutter on the counters yet - now we have a toaster oven left of the range, and a utensil jar, knife block, and spoon rest to the right, a row of canisters left of the fridge and a dish rack/drainer right of the sink.  Also 3 baskets in the center of the island for potatoes, onions, garlic, and non refrigerated fruit.  It still leaves a lot of counter space for prep and cooking.  Most prep is done on the island.


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Apr 23, 2014)

All these beautiful, functional kitchens, I am jealous.


----------



## bakechef (Apr 24, 2014)

Today I learned that I need a peninsula to keep people out of the kitchen...


----------



## RPCookin (Apr 24, 2014)

bakechef said:


> Today I learned that I need a peninsula to keep people out of the kitchen...



Having an island like the one in my photo above will do the trick too.  with chars on the outside of the island, plus having the kitchen/dining/living room all on one great room means that you are never out the group.  I can be sitting here at my computer desk and still be in the discussion in the kitchen.  It's compact living without feeling cramped (we have some 1400 square feet of deck wrapped around the great room).


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Apr 24, 2014)

bakechef said:


> Today I learned that I need a peninsula to keep people out of the kitchen...



Mom had slate floors in her kitchen and one day she grabbed a piece of chalk and drew a line on the floor announcing, "NO kids or cats beyond this line, when I'm fixing dinner!" It was funny to watch the cats get up to the line and then lean over so far to watch her.  Pupdog (a cat not a kid) actually fell over the line, you never saw a cat jump up and run so fast.


----------



## Addie (Apr 24, 2014)

Here in Boston when you are looking at ads for an apartment, the big seller is *EIK*. Eat In Kitchen. That means it is big enough to put a table and chairs in it and still have room to work. Until I moved into an efficiency apartment, I always had an EIK. It was the place where the whole family got together at meal time. And it was where my second husband proposed to me while he watched me cooking supper. So whether you have an island or EIK, it still is the center of family living. 

It was where I and my first husband taught our kids to become great cooks. Every night one of my kids was in the kitchen with me sitting at the table peeling veggies, breading fish or other meat, etc. When they became old enough, they stood at the stove turning the meat or eggs, bacon, and watching other foods. My youngest daughter loved to sit at the table and read my husband's copy of the JOC, original first edition. 

There was no radio or TV in my kitchen, ever. Family sounds were all you were ever going to hear.


----------



## Andy M. (Apr 24, 2014)

bakechef said:


> Today I learned that I need a peninsula to keep people out of the kitchen...



Crime scene tape works too.


----------



## Dawgluver (Apr 24, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> Crime scene tape works too.



Electric fence and a stun gun too.


----------



## GotGarlic (Apr 24, 2014)

Dawgluver said:


> Electric fence and a stun gun too.



Nothing says "welcome to my home" like an electric fence and a stun gun!


----------



## Janet H (Apr 24, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> Crime scene tape works too.




A great idea! I have trouble keeping folks out of the way as well but have found that having an open wine bottle on the* other side* of the island and a few glasses, helps


----------



## Steve Kroll (Apr 24, 2014)

bakechef said:


> Today I learned that I need a peninsula to keep people out of the kitchen...


Unfortunately that doesn't work. I have a peninsula and people still seem to want to congregate in my kitchen work area.

I start off by throwing out passive-aggressive hints, like "Excuse me, can I get around you?" When all else fails, I've found that the best way to handle it is to say in a loud and clear voice, "I need people to clear out of the kitchen.... NOW PLEASE". 

It's not subtle, but I guarantee it's effective.


----------



## Dawgluver (Apr 24, 2014)

Steve Kroll said:


> Unfortunately that doesn't work. I have a peninsula and people still seem to want to congregate in my kitchen work area.
> 
> I start off by throwing out hints, like "Excuse me, can I get around you?" When all else fails, I've found that the best way to handle it is to say in a loud and clear voice, "I need people to clear out of the kitchen.... NOW PLEASE".
> 
> It's not subtle, but I guarantee it's effective.



I take it you haven't tried Andy's or my suggestions.


----------



## Andy M. (Apr 24, 2014)

Steve Kroll said:


> ...I start off by throwing out passive-aggressive hints, like "Excuse me, can I get around you?" When all else fails, I've found that the best way to handle it is to say in a loud and clear voice, "I need people to clear out of the kitchen.... NOW PLEASE".
> 
> It's not subtle, but I guarantee it's effective.



I guess we have more passive friends and family than you.  On Easter, my younger daughter came into the kitchen when I started browning the angel hair pasta in brown butter for the pilaf.  She said she loved the smell and just stood by the stove for a bit and chatted with me then retreated to the far side of the peninsula to keep me company along with my older daughter.

Non-family guests tend to stay where we put them.  Usually at the table in the dining area or on the far side of the peninsula with a glass of wine.


----------



## GotGarlic (Apr 24, 2014)

Steve Kroll said:


> Unfortunately that doesn't work. I have a peninsula and people still seem to want to congregate in my kitchen work area.
> 
> I start off by throwing out passive-aggressive hints, like "Excuse me, can I get around you?" When all else fails, I've found that the best way to handle it is to say in a loud and clear voice, "I need people to clear out of the kitchen.... NOW PLEASE".
> 
> It's not subtle, but I guarantee it's effective.



If people stray into my work area, I hold up my knife and say, "I'm used to working alone in here and tend to walk around with it in my hand. You'd be safer over THERE!" 

Works for me!


----------



## taxlady (Apr 24, 2014)

GotGarlic said:


> If people stray into my work area, I hold up my knife and say, "I'm used to working alone in here and tend to walk around with it in my hand. You'd be safer over THERE!"
> 
> Works for me!


 I like it.


----------



## bethzaring (Apr 24, 2014)

GotGarlic said:


> If people stray into my work area, I hold up my knife and say, "I'm used to working alone in here and tend to walk around with it in my hand. You'd be safer over THERE!"
> 
> Works for me!


 
LOL, is this more friendly than an electric fence and a cattle prod?


----------



## GotGarlic (Apr 24, 2014)

bethzaring said:


> LOL, is this more friendly than an electric fence and a cattle prod?



What, I'm smiling when I say it!


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Apr 24, 2014)

LOL!!!

I am very passive-agressive, I hand over the utensil I am using to the person crowding me, leave the kitchen and go watch TV.


----------



## bakechef (Apr 24, 2014)

Lots of great ideas, thinking the electric fence is a good idea...

Maybe a more elegant solution would be an invisible fence system, I could just fit guests with a collar when they enter, they'll look silly but I won't have an unsightly fence blocking my kitchen doors.


----------



## Dawgluver (Apr 24, 2014)

bakechef said:


> Lots of great ideas, thinking the electric fence is a good idea...
> 
> Maybe a more elegant solution would be an invisible fence system, I could just fit guests with a collar when they enter, they'll look silly but I won't have an unsightly fence blocking my kitchen doors.



Yes!  They make some very elegant collars nowadays.


----------



## Andy M. (Apr 24, 2014)

bakechef said:


> Lots of great ideas, thinking the electric fence is a good idea...
> 
> Maybe a more elegant solution would be an invisible fence system, I could just fit guests with a collar when they enter, they'll look silly but I won't have an unsightly fence blocking my kitchen doors.




Nothing like a little electric shock therapy to keep unruly guests in line.  IT'll be fun to see how quickly they make the connection between the shock and going into the kitchen.  It'll be easy to identify the slow learners.


----------



## taxlady (Apr 24, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> Nothing like a little electric shock therapy to keep unruly guests in line.  IT'll be fun to see how quickly they make the connection between the shock and going into the kitchen.  It'll be easy to identify the slow learners.


----------



## Zagut (Apr 24, 2014)

Crime scene tape , Electric fence and a stun gun , Cattle prod.

All good suggestions.

But just do as the VP of the USA suggests. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/joe-biden-guns_n_2719330.html

I personally suggest Remington.

Since 1818. 



Off my soapbox now. 


Sorry. 



The purpose of a work area is to function in the most efficient manner for those who must function in it. There is no set design that works for everyone. We can adapt to the less then perfect aspects of a workspace but individual wants and need define the ideal kitchen.

To each his/her own.


----------



## cave76 (Apr 27, 2014)

I just happened across this----- a kitchen in a  yurt.


----------

