# Big Brisket question



## bknox (Sep 10, 2007)

I have a 10.5 lb. brisket on the cooker and have managed to keep the temp somewhere between 216 degress and 230 ish degrees. I am using an unmodified Chargriller and a side smoker box.

First off the cut was labeled "Bola De Res". I bought it at my nearest local market where I trust the meat and it is a Spanish Market. Maybe someone can translate this for me. I was told it was a brisket but it is rounder than what I have traditionally purchased.

What I am planning on doing is when it is done, wrapping it in foil and placing it in a cooler to rest for an hour.

Anyway what internal temp am I shooting for. My old meat thermometer says 170 is done. Is this the internal temp I need. I know with pork butt the 'done temp' is 160 ish but normally when I cook a butt the temp is higher as the meat is in the heat for so long.

I quess what I am asking is do I take it out at 170 degrees or do I shoot for longer times and possibly higher temps.

Also should I be basting it?

If none of this makes sense feel free to ask questions. I have a while before I reach 170.


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## Chiles (Sep 10, 2007)

While I am still the new kid on the block by most standards, but here is what I would do personally...

Once the meat hits 165, I personally would double wrap it in foil with about a cup or so of apple juice.  Then, monitor it until it hits about 190.  Remove from the heat, wrap tightly in plastic wrap and then let it rest for 1 to 3 hours.

Save the drippings from the foil wrap to dribble over the slices when you are cutting.

-Chiles

Always learning...


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## bknox (Sep 10, 2007)

That sounds like a plan. I would not have thought of apple juice with beef. You are suggesting apple juice for beef? I am game especially if you do it this way.


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## Chiles (Sep 10, 2007)

I was told to use apple juice by an old pro and can say that I was really happy with the results.  One and a half cups is just enough to keep the meat moist and mix with the natural flavorings to produce a sweet broth inside the foil.  By the way, that is why I double or even tripple wrap, I don't want any of that juice getting away becuase I am going to use it for re-heating.

Remember, I am a newby, and am learning as I go, but this advice certainly worked really well for me.

-Chiles


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## LarryWolfe (Sep 10, 2007)

bknox said:
			
		

> I have a 10.5 lb. brisket on the cooker and have managed to keep the temp somewhere between 216 degress and 230 ish degrees. I am using an unmodified Chargriller and a side smoker box.
> 
> First off the cut was labeled "Bola De Res". I bought it at my nearest local market where I trust the meat and it is a Spanish Market. Maybe someone can translate this for me. I was told it was a brisket but it is rounder than what I have traditionally purchased.
> 
> ...



Bola De Res translates into *Ball of Animal*.

Post a pic of the meat out of the wrapper Bryan so we can see what it is.

If it is a brisket you can cook it two ways.  #1 Cook between 225-250*, any lower is not necessary and you'll be cooking it forever and will take a chance or drying it out.  Cook until you get an internal temp of 185* and try to slide a thermometer probe into the meat in several different spots.  If it slides in with little resistance, double wrap it in foil and let rest 1-2 hours then open the foil and let cool for 15-20 minutes before slicing and slice against the grain.  If there is resistance when inserting the probe, continue to cook and check every 5 degrees until you can insert the probe and it goes in like butter.  Method #2, cook unfoiled until you get an internal temp of 165*, then foil and continue to cook following the same instructions above.  Good luck, hope this helps!

PS, adding liquid is perfectly fine and a matter of choice.  I don't do it because IMO it turns the brisket into more of a pot roast versus BBQ.


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## Jack W. (Sep 10, 2007)

bknox said:
			
		

> That sounds like a plan. I would not have thought of apple juice with beef. You are suggesting apple juice for beef? I am game especially if you do it this way.



I like Dr. Pepper.  It's a Texas thang.       Where's Wheeler when you need him?    

Jack


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## bknox (Sep 10, 2007)

Here is what I am cooking Larry.






I have only lived in the Cicero area since last October and quickly realized I should learn Spanish. Most of the markets I like are all Spanish but the guys at the meat couter generally do not speak English and the cuts are different than I was used to where we used to live.

Anyway, it does not look like the briskets I am used to but hopefully will be just as good. It is more of a "Ball" than the thick on one end cut I normally would call 'Brisket'. 

"Ball of animal" soumds like the last rabbit I hit.  

I think I am going to pass on the apple juice for now although I think it would be excellent with pork and think I have seen other BBQ Central members do this with butts.


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## Greg Rempe (Sep 10, 2007)

Holy cripes...that don't look like no brisket to me!


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## bknox (Sep 10, 2007)

How about it!!

It was in a thick plastic shrink bag and I thought maybe it would look more like a brisket when I unwrapped it. I was wrong.


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## bknox (Sep 10, 2007)

Should I be basting this beast?


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## Jack W. (Sep 10, 2007)

That looks more like a sirlion tip roast to me.  Sometimes called a ball roast or knee roast.  It should still make pretty good barbecue.  It's gonna be lean though.  Be careful.

Good Q!

Jack


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## LarryWolfe (Sep 10, 2007)

Jack W. said:
			
		

> That looks more like a sirlion tip roast to me.  Sometimes called a ball roast or knee roast.  It should still make pretty good barbecue.  It's gonna be lean though.  Be careful.
> 
> Good Q!
> 
> Jack



Yes, I was going to say the exact thing!  Looks like a sirloin something or another to me!    

However I would cook it indirect in the 275* range until it hit 100* and then finish with a hot sear until it get's to your desired finished temperature, but don't cook till well done!  Then let cool and slice really thin and make sammiches with thin sliced onion and horseradish.  I would not even attempt to make BBQ with it, it's too lean.


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## Rockin Rooster (Sep 10, 2007)

Not a brisket, but should cook fine. If you really want to BBQ it I would wrap at around an internal temp of about 140 and cook it to around 180 or maybe even less. This will take some feel to tell when the meat has the right tenderness. Good luck and I wouldn't worry too much, I can't imagine it messing up.


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## bknox (Sep 10, 2007)

CRAP! I am registering 149 degrees now. I am going to check it and possibly take it off and slow rest it.

I will post pix either way. Hopefully I have not ruined it.


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## LarryWolfe (Sep 10, 2007)

bknox said:
			
		

> CRAP! I am registering 149 degrees now. I am going to check it and possibly take it off and slow rest it.
> 
> I will post pix either way. Hopefully I have not ruined it.



It's not ruined, but I wouldn't cook it anymore.  But that's just my opinion.


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## bknox (Sep 10, 2007)

OK, well I went to foil it and had about 2 inches of foil left so I ran to the store, About half way there it began to rain. I am soaked but as I was wrapping it up I noticed it sure smelled fine.

Hopefully it will be tasty and not to dry, we will see.


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## bknox (Sep 10, 2007)

Larry I am going to let it rest in a cooler insulated with news paper for a couple of hours. Hopefully I will have pictures tomorrow that shows some success.

Thanks for all the help everybody. I think I can say I learned something today.


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## LarryWolfe (Sep 10, 2007)

I sent the picture to my buddy Steve aka "Ask A Butcher" and he says from the picture it looks like Ball Tip Roast (bottom sirloin).  Here's some pic's and more info of some he did not too long ago.  


http://askabutcher.proboards42.com/inde ... 1139838630


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## bknox (Sep 10, 2007)

That looks like the meat in question except the one I have is really big. Generally I would have cooked it over the weekend so I could eat lunch all week but my 'honey do' list allowed me no time.

Currently it is wrapped in foil in a cooler with paper insulating it. About 6:00 I will crack it open and see.

I need to find a butcher that speaks English. One time, in a hurry, I went to buy some small steak I ended up with goat. Don't get me wrong goat is great but the language barrier bites my *** sometimes.


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## boar_d_laze (Sep 10, 2007)

Bryan,

_bola de res_ isn't brisket.  It's from the round.  Your picture looks like it was taken from the round primal near the sirloin and might be about half of the eye of round.  Could also be part of the "cross rib" from the Chuck.

Brisket, in Spanish, is _falda_.  

Whole pig and good brisket are the Holy Grails of barbecue.  Neither is easy to do well.  In one respect, brisket is more difficult, because it's easier to screw up and at any given time thousands of barbecuers are doing just that.  

If you scroll down the threads under this (General Barbecue) heading, you'll see a thread titled Brisket Membrane.  I've got a post in there called "Brisket by the Numbers."  Please take a look at.  It's not the only Tao of Brisket, but it is one of them.  Follow the step by step instructions fairly closely and you'll end up with a good brisket -- better than almost any  restaurant.  Better yet, it will give you a foundation so you can try other things.  

Personally, I don't like fruit juice with beef -- especially apple juice.  Putting apple juice on or in anything associated with barbecue is a Southern thing.  They can have it.  Pork likes to be cooked in and with sweet, beef does not.  

If you decide to foil (which in your case is a very good idea) it's also a good idea to put a little liquid in the pack.  Beer is good, if you happen to have one open.  Red wine, ditto.  Even a little of your finishing sauce  (although it does add some sweet, at least it's "barbecue").  If you do go with beer, add some onions and peppers along with.   

The "done" temperatures on your thermometer have nothing to do with the tough cuts most associated with barbecue.  Pork shoulder (butt, picnic, or whole shoulder) should be removed from the smoker at no less than 190 (preferably 195) and allowed at least an hour rest.  Brisket is normally done between 190 and 200, the difference depending on the length of the stall, and also allowed a long rest.  At least two hours.  The higher temperatures are necessary to force the protein molecules to untangle.  Easier to remember is the barbecue phrase, "beyond done and into tender."  

Other, inherently more tender cuts don't require that kind of cooking.  For instance, I'd pull pork loin at 160 or a bit below, and beef rib at 130.

Considering the temp at which you pulled your roast, I think you got it right at about "well done," but before tender.  My guess is that you're going to have to slice very thin for tenderness; and that "dipping" would return some juiciness.  

You can make an "au jus" for beef dips by putting a little EVOO oil in a hot pan, adding some chopped garlic, and when the garlic softens a 1/2 cup of wine.  Bring to a boil, reduce by half, then add a can of beef stock and 2 tbs of Worcestershire sauce, and reduce by about 1/4 (a skosh less than the can).  You'll barely taste the garlic, wine or Worcestershire.  Instead, they'll amplify the beef. 

I'd think you could take a smoked round or chuck all the way past 180 for "barbecue."   Test for tender by sticking a fork in the meat and turning it ("twist test").  If it turns, the meat is done.  Even if you pull the meat earlier you can solve the toughness problems by slicing very, very thin.  If the meat is so overdone it shreds, serve it for tacos or on a french roll and say you did it on purpose.  On tacos it's "ropa vieja," On a french roll it's "debris."  Look 'em right in the eye and say you called all three rails.  Don't laugh.

Rich


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## bknox (Sep 10, 2007)

Rich,

Thanks, you are a wealth of knowledge and I did read through the brisket post but it was after I realized the brisket I had bought was not a spanish version brisket but a complete miscommunication and it was on the grill. 

I will definately use it next time when I actually have a brisket. I have made a small truckload of beef briskets in the oven but the indirect grilling and such is fairly difficult, especially when you don't have what you think you have. The lean meat I think will have worked against me.

I think, if I have done what I think I have done, that the rather large chunk o' meat I have cooked will be a bit dry on the out side and fairly rare in the center, we will see.

Worse case scenario will be me and who ever visits will eat thinly sliced sandwiches for the next month.

Thanks for the Spanish for Brisket, Falda. Next time I will be a bit more prepared.


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## bknox (Sep 11, 2007)

Here are the pix. I learned a couple of important things about BBQ.

1. Fat is good.
2. Falda is brisket. 
3. Bola De Res is not
4. Wrapping and slow resting is really good

For those just looking in:
I bought this cut under the impression that it was a brisket and when I opened it up it was not but I proceeded to cook it as if it was. As it cooked I submitted tot he forum what I was doing and it turned out I should have probably been following a different temp schedule. Anyway....

Balo De Res rubbed with the Reverend's Original and Cracked Pepper Dry Rub






First Slice





Another slice: _picture taken without a flash_





Plated with garlic mashed potatoes





My wife loved it. I thought it was ok. More fat on the cut would have made a world of difference.


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## LarryWolfe (Sep 11, 2007)

Looks good from here!!  How was the flavor?


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## bknox (Sep 11, 2007)

Well  I tossed in some hickory at one point and I did not think the smoky with the beef was as good as if I had cooked it with out. The smoke flavor was a bit overpowering. It may be that I prefer pork and chicken to beef except for rare beef and it was done a bit more than rare.

It did take a nice picture.


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## bknox (Sep 19, 2007)

Now that I have had some time to eat this monster piece of meat I must say it was actually delicious. Once it cooled and I figured out how to slice it.

I must of had 30 sandwiches trying to finish it off. Luckily my daughter likes it. It is like a lightly smokey roast beef or from what I can gather exactly like a smokey roast beef. Once it cooled and sat and I began to slice it really thin I began to enjoy my strange mistake.

I think it will be while before I do it again though.


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## Diva Q (Sep 19, 2007)

Sometimes mistakes turn out better than the original 

Looks fine from here. 

Bet it would make good hot sammies too with a bit of gravy.


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## john a (Sep 20, 2007)

Diva Q said:
			
		

> Sometimes mistakes turn out better than the original
> 
> Looks fine from here.
> 
> *Bet it would make good hot sammies too with a bit of gravy.*




Me too, looks good to me.


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