# Macaroni And Cheese - Roux = Pointless



## Mylegsbig (Apr 30, 2006)

I made a DELICIOUS mac and cheese today that rivalled anyone i made with a roux..and i made it in ONE DISH... a big stainless steel sauce pan

i cooked pasta shells al dente, drained , put em back in hot pan.

i added 2 tablespoons butter, but 1/4 cup of cream, bout half cup of milk, and a nice sized amount of provolone, velvetta, and sharp cheddar, finished with parm reggiano. then cracked pepper, garlic powder, and cayenne.

stirred and it's creamy and thick as all can be. screw sitting there whipping up a roux and dirtying another skillet while making mac.  waste of time in my opinion.

btw, this is for a skillet mac, not one of those casseroles.


Hey - I am wanting to explore new cheeses for mac and cheese. I know i need some velveeta in there for creaminess, but what are some other delicious cheeses i can add in to my mac.  skillet dish again, not oven.


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## ironchef (Apr 30, 2006)

MLB, the title of your thread should be "Macaroni and Cheese + Roux = Pointless", not minus right? Because you're saying that a roux is not needed.

Anyway, back to your question, look for soft or semi-soft cheeses as the base, and try to go for a theme so that you can taste the cheeses better. As long as you melt the cheese properly, velveeta is not needed.

For example, for Italian, you could use:

Marscapone
Fontina
Boschetto 'al Tartufo
Parm or Pecorino-Romano

French:

Montrachet
Boursin
Camembert
Babybeh

Mexican:

Queso Asadero
Queso Requeson
Queso Cotija
Queso Anejo


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## Mylegsbig (Apr 30, 2006)

is french shells and cheese good?

Give me a quick off the top of your head recipe for french mac and cheese if you will, using 2-3 cheeses.  And of course the ratios to use.

Ive never made a dish like this and have never really eaten french chese.

jusr give me some basics, a good starter mac and cheese dish with french cheese.  will be using sea shells,and will be a skillet dish.  any good seasonings go good with french cheese?

Cheers.


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## amber (Apr 30, 2006)

Pick three of the french cheeses that iron chef suggested and melt them down as you did with the one you made today.  Sea shells will work just fine, I usually use elbow macaroni for my mac and cheese.  Not sure which seasonings would be best, but I would go with whatever ones you like.  A hot salsa is really good mixed in too!  I like Newmans' brand.


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## ironchef (Apr 30, 2006)

I don't really know MLB, I was just tossing out an idea. I've done the Italian version but with risotto, never with pasta. As far as proportions, I use equal parts of whatever cheese I'm using. I would do the Italian version because it would be easier to find I think then the French cheese.

With the amount of liquid you're using in your original recipe, plus the residual liquid from the pasta, I'm guessing that you'll need between 1 1/2 to 2 cups of cheese. I would probably use:

1/3 c. Marscapone
1/3 c. Fontina
1/3 c. Montasio
1/3 c. Parmesano-Reggiano

Add more cheese if needed to achieve the consitency you want. 

I don't think you really need seasonings other than salt and pepper to taste because you'll want the flavor of the cheese to be the star of the dish. Maybe chopped parsley or a dash of cayenne pepper would be all you'd want to add.


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## Constance (Apr 30, 2006)

MLB, the one you made sounds delicious. Velveeta is ideal for macaroni and cheese. It is bland, though, and I think you really woke it up!

Suggestions:

Cream cheese is good in macaroni...you could mix it with herbs to mimic Boursin, if you wanted. Just about any other cheese would blend with that. 

My first MIL made a delicious mac & cheese that was crunchy on the outside and moist and creamy inside. She just used cream and butter and a hard yellow cheese that melted into strings...Colby, I think. She topped it with pieces of butter, then put in the oven, uncovered...don't remember for how long. That's been a long time ago...40 years, actually. 

I think a good bleu cheese would be outstanding in mac'n cheese. I have a recipe that calls for half and half, Monteray Jack, cream cheese, bleu cheese and parmesan. 

I like buttered bread crumbs on top of my macaroni sometimes. I make them myself out of odds and ends of bread that I let set out on a plate to dry out all day. If they don't get dry enough, I toast them on med/low heat for a few minutes in the oven. They go in the food processer, and then into a skillet with a little melted butter. Once they are all coated, put them on top and put pan in oven.

MBL, I did a search on French cheeses, and I don't know what to tell you. I'd never heard of most of them. But if you started with the Boursin (herb flavored cream cheese), added some rich, nutty Munster, and something more assertive...I'm lost here. Ideas?


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## Robo410 (Apr 30, 2006)

Dill Havarti is a great herbed melting cheese.  And swiss cheeses get nice and gooey too.


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## licia (May 1, 2006)

My grandmother always made hers in a pot. She made the best I've ever had and it was always the first dish to empty.  After draining the macaroni, she put the pasta back in the pot, added the cheese with butter and milk and let it all melt together, sometimes on a very slow burner, sometimes it was hot enough to melt while everything else was finishing. I think she used colby and sharp cheddar. My aunts do an almost as good version.


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## grumblebee (May 1, 2006)

Spanish manchego adds a nice depth to mac and cheese. I've also made it with smoked gouda - you'd be surprised what a nice twist smoked cheeses makes to pasta! Smoked gruyere would work well too, I'm sure.


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## jennyema (May 1, 2006)

One of the reasons that you would use bechemel sauce is that oftentimes cheese (harder like chaddar and gruyere) will not melt very nicely if just added to hot pasta or to cream or milk..  They can get stringy, rather than creamy..

And I never dirty two pots when I make bechemal mac and cheese.  I boil the pasta, drain it and let it sit in the colander with a little butter.  I maker the bechemel sauce in the same pot and then add the pasta back in.  

You only need one pot and a colander.


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## sparrowgrass (May 1, 2006)

If you put harder cheeses directly into hot macaroni, the proteins can coagulate, and you end up with unpleasant rubbery bits or globs of stuff.  

If you melt the butter and add the cold milk first to the hot macaroni, you cool it down enough so that the hard cheese can melt instead of coagulate.  Also, I think Velveeta mixed with hard cheese helps you to avoid that problem.

I never use a roux to make mac and cheese.


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## Mylegsbig (May 1, 2006)

good idea jenny.

so you think doing it my way without the roux i have to have some velveeta cheese in their to achieve the same consistency?

what are some other fantastic melting cheeses?

Isn't fontina a very good melting cheese?


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## jennyema (May 1, 2006)

Big,

Not sure about the Velveeta. It is a processed cheese, which is why it melts differently. IMO it is too shiny and plastecine and has no real taste, so I don't use it (except every year or so in boxed kraft mac and cheese which comes with it) . But I know a lot of people swear by it.

Since I have always gone the bechemel route, I am not a good source of comparison about how chese would do in a non-bechemel macaroni and cheese. Fontina is a semi-soft cheese and is a popular choice for the dish -- I am sure it would work.  Remember though, that some melting cheeses (eg mozarella) are hard to work with, as they tend to get stringy.

Personally, I like a bold, cheesy taste in my mac and cheese. One of may favorite cheeses to use is gruyere, which is a pretty hard nutty, flavorful cheese from Switzerland. A similar cheese from France is called Comte. I also love aged Gouda in mac and cheese. And nice cheddar. ANd/or a mix.

Though there are loads of softer cheeses with bold tastes, my personal pref for mac and cheese runs toward harder aged cheeses which are tricky to melt into creamy consistency. Perhaps I will try Sparrow's suggestion, regarding cooling the pasta down some. But then again, I have been making bechemel sauce for so many years that it's like second nature to me.


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## Mylegsbig (May 1, 2006)

ironchef said:
			
		

> I don't really know MLB, I was just tossing out an idea. I've done the Italian version but with risotto, never with pasta. As far as proportions, I use equal parts of whatever cheese I'm using. I would do the Italian version because it would be easier to find I think then the French cheese.
> 
> With the amount of liquid you're using in your original recipe, plus the residual liquid from the pasta, I'm guessing that you'll need between 1 1/2 to 2 cups of cheese. I would probably use:
> 
> ...



Okay im going to make this one. Im going to use 8 Oz of Medium Sea Shells.  Do i have to do a roux?

If so shouldi use my normal roux 3 T flour 3 T Butter 2 cups warm  milk then add cheese?

is there anyway you could change those dimensions to suit the amount of pasta im using? thanks man.


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## jennyema (May 1, 2006)

I bet you could do this without the roux.


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## Mylegsbig (May 1, 2006)

normal gruyere or smoked gruyere


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## jennyema (May 1, 2006)

Whichever you like.

IMO taking a cheese which is nearly perfect on its own and smoking it seems silly. You might smoke a very mild unaged cheese (provolone) to enhance its taste ..... but you lose a lot of the cheese taste that way which is a mean thing to do to gruyere.

But if you like it, use it.  Same with velveeta, etc.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (May 1, 2006)

I learned through mjuch trial and error that most cheeses can be blended into a dairy base such as cream or milk.  The trick to it is patience.  That is, the liquid should be no more than 180 degrees or so.  And the cheese should be freshly grated.  Add the cheese a little at a time, taking care to stir it until it melts into the liquid so that they are completely belnded.  And remember, the stronger the cheese, the less you have to use to flavor the mac and cheese.

Cheeses I prefer to use are gruyere, fontina, a strong swiss, five-year aged white cheddar, muenster, parmesano-regiano, and colby.  I have made my own Velveeta-style cheese by combining swiss, cheddar, and jack cheese, with salt.  Again, I used hot, but not boiling milk, and grated the cheese into the liquid while constantly stirring.  I really enjoyed tailoring this cheese mixture for my mac and cheese, and for various cheese sauces.  If you look on the Velveeta packaging, it lists whaat cheeses are blended to make the product.  It is so soft because of the extra moisture from being blended with milk.

You can also use young cheeses like Mozarella that's kept in a water bath, or feta cheese.  And cream cheeses are a nice addition.  But the single most important factor in your mac and cheese is the flavor you like.  You have to develop your own recipe.  I like to add a little truffle oil to my mac and cheese.  But then again, I almost think I'd add truffle oil to ice cream. 

And smoky is a great flavor addition, as can be various peppers, or onion, or chicken broth, or, or, or...  Try different things.  Throw some pepperoni chunks into your mac & cheese, or some keilbassa.  Try it with bits of cauliflower, or brocolli, or artichoke hearts.  You just might surprise yourself with what you can create.  I would think that a cheddar based mac and cheese would be phenominal with some slow-cooked beef roast slices mixed in, like a cheddar beef sandwich, but with pasta instead of bread.

I could go on with ideas, but it's time for me to go home.

Seeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## marmar (May 1, 2006)

This isn't a cheese, but making the pasta and stirring in yogurt as the last step really makes them creamy. Especially with greek yogurt. I may just do that though  because I have yogurt in the house far more frequently than cream.


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## Snoop Puss (May 11, 2006)

There's a TV chef in Britain called Delia Smith who has a recipe for the best macaroni cheese I've ever made. She has the recipe on her Web site at http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/

Search for macaroni in the search box and look for souffléed macaroni cheese in the list that appears. I don't bother with the onion, but I promise you this has to be macaroni cheese for the gods. It's a bit of effort but well worth it.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (May 11, 2006)

I recently puchased some Havarti.  Teh flavor is very buterry, and a bit salty.  It's really good cheese when you bring it to room temperature, and allow it to roll around on your tongue a bit.  I used it together with some freshly grated Parmesano Regiano, a bit of colby (small amount), and some left-over gruyere that was sitting in my fridge.  The Havarti and Parmesano cheeses took center stage, with the other two added for complexity and flavor depth.  

The cheese was added to a classic Bechemel and stirred in until silky sommoth over low heat.  I used this sauce to top an herb-baked chicken over zetti pasta that was flavored with a bit of EVOO.  This isn't cheese macaroni by far.  And was it ever great.  The flavors belnded admirably, with the flavoroful cheese sauce (and I do mean lots of cheese flavor with the silky smooth Bechemel acting as the flavor carrier) complementing the oregano, garlic, alt, and sweet onion flavors of the chicken, all that on top of whole grain pasta with EVOO. 

Though this dish is primarily a cheese macaroni type meal, but with the cheese added as a sauce on top rather than mixed in, with chicken, it is more elegant, prettier, and more satisfying, at least for me.  It is every bit as much a comfort food as its simpler cousin.  I mean, what's more comfortable that cheese macaroni and baked chicken?

So next time you're in the mood for cheese mac, try this combination, with whatever cheeses you choose.  Because, as I've said again and again, a great sauce is only great if you like it.  And as long as you use the proper technique for adding the cheese, and taste as you go, you can use virtually any cheese, or cheese combination you like for flavor.  For those of you who like ripened cheeses, use a good camembert, or brie.  For veined cheese lovers, there are all ov the blue cheeses, Roqueforts, Gorgonzola, etc.  For mild and creamy cheese lovers, you can use goat, or feta, or Havarti, Muenster, etc.  For hard cheese lovers, aged cheddar (I'm talking five years here, kids) Parmesano Regiano, Romano, Asiago, etc.

Add herbs to the mix.  in the words of a particular rock group, YOU CAN DO IT!

Get creative.

I'm thinking my next cheese sauce may be comprized of simply Havarti, butter, and cream, maybe with some fresh chives mixed in.  Yum.  I can taste it now. 

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## BreezyCooking (Feb 3, 2009)

Hey - I made a GREAT Mac & Cheese last night using all leftovers except for the elbow macaroni!!

For Super Bowl Sunday I had made a big bowl of classic Velveeta/Salsa dip (1 pound of Velveeta microwaved with 1 cup of Hot Pace Salsa until melted through).  Had about 1/2 a bowl left over.  Cooked 1 pound of Barilla Elbow Macaroni pasta until al dente & drained.  Remelted dip in the microwave.  In the pasta pot, sauteed 6 sliced leftover turkey franks in some extra-virgin olive oil until browned.  Added drained pasta & melted dip & stirred gently to combine.  Piled all into a 9 x 13 butter-greased baking dish, topped with buttered breadcrumbs & baked for 25 minutes.  Served with a big green salad.  Terrific meal for very little $$.


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## tanya (Feb 6, 2009)

A good english mature cheddar.

Nothing else needed, best mac and cheese ever in my opinion :P

Just pasta and melted cheese mmm.


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## punkrawkchef (Apr 10, 2009)

jennyema said:


> One of the reasons that you would use bechemel sauce is that oftentimes cheese (harder like chaddar and gruyere) will not melt very nicely if just added to hot pasta or to cream or milk.. They can get stringy, rather than creamy..
> 
> And I never dirty two pots when I make bechemal mac and cheese. I boil the pasta, drain it and let it sit in the colander with a little butter. I maker the bechemel sauce in the same pot and then add the pasta back in.
> 
> You only need one pot and a colander.


 

I make mine the exact same way! One pot and one baking dish is all I use!


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## Callisto in NC (Apr 10, 2009)

I'm still confused about the title of this thread.  If the mac and cheese was so good and there was no roux, how is it pointless?


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## Andy M. (Apr 10, 2009)

Callisto in NC said:


> I'm still confused about the title of this thread.  If the mac and cheese was so good and there was no roux, how is it pointless?




I believe the intent of the thread title is that the mac and cheese was so good without a roux, that making mac and cheese with a roux is pointless.


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## msmofet (Apr 10, 2009)

i added a dash of dry mustard and hot sauce to my cheese sauce.


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## snack_pack85 (Apr 10, 2009)

I agree, the title is misleading. I always use a roux for my mac and cheese. It just has the kind of consistancy I really love. There's one recipe I like without it, that a buddy of mine made once. It has a little egg, butter, milk and tons cheese (with the macaroni of course) and that's it. Bake till melty. It's definetely not a creamy recipe but it is very very delicious.


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## Callisto in NC (Apr 10, 2009)

snack_pack85 said:


> I agree, the title is misleading. I always use a roux for my mac and cheese. It just has the kind of consistancy I really love. There's one recipe I like without it, that a buddy of mine made once. It has a little egg, butter, milk and tons cheese (with the macaroni of course) and that's it. Bake till melty. It's definetely not a creamy recipe but it is very very delicious.


Thanks Eva Marie ~ I guess maybe if the title was "great mac and cheese without the roux" it would make a lot more sense.  To me the title now says "mac and cheese without roux is pointless, why bother?"  I've only made mac and cheese twice, both with a roux, I can't see doing it without it.


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## Andy M. (Apr 10, 2009)

The thread was started about three years ago and the OP hasn't been around for over a year.  He probably won't see the suggested correction.


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