# Stockpiling Food?



## Rocklobster (Jul 21, 2012)

I am seriously considering stockpiling some food items for the coming winter. With the drought in Eastern Canada and some of the US, you can bet the food prices will rise. I am thinking flour, cornmeal, beef, chicken for sure. Maybe canola oil. Anything else be affected by the drought?


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jul 21, 2012)

I have a different way of addressing this. I like to maintain a rather large pantry stocked with goods I often use, particularly those in packages, jars and cans, items that have a significant shelf life (as opposed to fresh vegetables or meats).

My method is targeted at (1) having a nice supply of stock goods that I use often so that I don't have to keep running back to the market, so I save shopping time by buying multiples when I stock up, and (2) I always stock up on items I frequently use when they are on sale.  By combining these concepts I save money by buying more often when on sale, I save convenience by often having the item in stock, and I save time because it's hardly more effort to buy a dozen cans or packages instead of buying just one.

I hope to buy a deep freeze one day soon and apply this concept to meat, poultry, fish and other frozen goods. I particularly recall when turkeys used to be on sale for the holidays (not the last few years) where I'd buy 1-2 extra and have delicious, inexpensive turkey a few times several months later. (I'm not so sure we'll ever again see holiday turkey sales. I haven't seen them on sale for a couple years.)


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## Cerise (Jul 21, 2012)

Rocklobster said:


> I am seriously considering stockpiling some food items for the coming winter. With the drought in Eastern Canada and some of the US, *you can bet the food prices will rise.* I am thinking flour, cornmeal, beef, chicken for sure. Maybe canola oil. Anything else be affected by the drought?


 
Heard that on the News.  They were walking through a cornfield at the time, but didn't get into specifics.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jul 21, 2012)

It would be interesting if anybody can name any food product that is not expected to cost more in the future, or fuel prices, noting that even when food prices stay constant they always have to be transported to stores, by a combination of trains and trucking, and those prices are (IMO) expected to rise forever.

I can't imagine any food costing less or same tomorrow than today. 

Remember Wimpy from the Popeye cartoons, "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today." That was in the 1930's yet nothing seems to have changed since then. (Although perhaps Wimpy was motivated more by hoping for forgetfulness than contemplating inflation.)


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## Rocklobster (Jul 21, 2012)

I am concerned by a sharp jump in a short amount of time. A couple of hundred dollars of shopping now, may cost two fifty by christmas.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jul 21, 2012)

I shudder to think of $200 in July costing $250 by late December, an increase of 50% per year. At that rate I'll have to give up eating in another few years.


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## blissful (Jul 21, 2012)

I keep a fairly good stocked pantry, buy things on sale, can/dehydrate/freeze anything extra from the garden.
Before peanut butter went up, we bought it for $1.25/lb and you can't buy peanuts for that. Sadly, it has added sugar, fats, etc, but we'll still use it.
Last week I blanched and froze pea pods and beans. It sure keeps me working on staying stocked.
Today we picked up 10 lbs of sugar and 20 lbs of flour, that should get me through to Christmas (along with all the other flours--whole wheat, rye, etc).


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jul 21, 2012)

I like stockpiling food even if for no other reason than convenience. For example, if you use chicken stock and you see it on sale, why not buy a dozen cans? Then the next dozen times you need it you won't have to put it on your shopping list, or take another 1-2 minutes to add it to your shopping cart.


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## Rocklobster (Jul 21, 2012)

I heard meat like beef, pork, and chicken are going to rise because  the price of feed is going to become more expensive this fall. A twenty percent rise in price can add up to a lot of extra expense over the long winter...


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## Cheryl J (Jul 21, 2012)

Absolutely, I stockpile whenever I can, for many of the reasons listed above.  Also, my town only has two grocery stores - the nearest other supermarkets are about a hundred miles away.   Whenever I go to my daughter's in the city, we hit Costco's and Trader Joe's.  

I LOVE my foodsaver and use it a lot.  The bags are spendy, but I figure it still saves $$ in the long run, especially since it's just me here.


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## Oldvine (Jul 21, 2012)

I usually have a pretty good stock of food so have not put much thought into adding more to that because of the drought.  Over the many years that I've been married, I've been able to adjust my meal plans to pretty much fit our supply of money as needed.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jul 21, 2012)

Does anybody expect for the drought to end? Are you going to quit stockpiling once the rain starts?


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## Rocklobster (Jul 21, 2012)

I was mainly referring to higher priced stuff like meat. I have a large freezer, so to buy a few extra pieces when they go on sale will save me some money this winter. Unfortunately it is almost too late for rain to make a difference. Farmers in Ontario are already calling their insurance companies.  If the price does go up, it will likely last until spring and the next growing season.


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## blissful (Jul 21, 2012)

I read there was not enough hay/straw food for pigs/cows and farmers will be selling off and slaughtering them before winter due to lack of food, many farmers, so the price will temporarily drop, then once winter begins the prices will go up.
If you are going to buy, buy now, slaughter in August/September. Of course, I could be wrong, buy at your own risk. That is what I would do and I've been needing some bacon and pork roasts.


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## buckytom (Jul 21, 2012)

i'm stockpiling mexican food because of the mayan long count calendar...


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## Rocklobster (Jul 21, 2012)

buckytom said:


> i'm stockpiling mexican food because of the mayan long count calendar...


Ahhh, what did they know? They didn't even wear pants, for chris'sakes.


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## Harry Cobean (Jul 22, 2012)

buckytom said:


> i'm stockpiling mexican food because of the mayan long count calendar...





Rocklobster said:


> Ahhh, what did they know? They didn't even wear pants, for chris'sakes.


food's good tho' & they did invent the potato.....i think,ummm,the bit about the potato that is,errr,not the food bit,that is good!
same problem over here chaps for the opposite reason.all the rain & flooding has knackered a lot of crops here.....b*gger!


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## Margi Cintrano (Jul 22, 2012)

Buonasera,

Interesting Post. Here in the Mediterranean, it is more difficult to stock pile food. Perhaps, one can stock flour, dry pasta when Barilla has a sale, jar Piquillo Red Basque Peppers, jar Sundried Tomatoes, Anchovies, Capers, Olives, Evoo, Olive Oil, Pickles, Vinegars, Wines, Beer, however, not much else because we use local daily fresh ingredients ... 

Hope those affected by draught, shall have the needed rains.

Ciao and enjoy your Sunday,
Margaux.


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## Addie (Jul 22, 2012)

buckytom said:


> i'm stockpiling mexican food because of the mayan long count calendar...


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## Addie (Jul 22, 2012)

I hadn't thought of stockpiling. Mainly because I don't have the room. Cabinets and freezer. I live in a studio apartment. And it is one of the bigger ones in the building. I suppose if I did some shifting of furniture and cleaned out the storage closet, I could make room for dry goods. I have always stocked up on sale items. I guess it is time to look into it seriously. I do keep large packages of paper towels under the small side tables that have a long skirt. I have two of them. The other is for the large packages of toilet paper. The large phone books could go under the TV. I never use them. And I don't think I have called 411 more than three times so far this year. More space for dry goods. And if I put a skirt around my day/bed,  I could put more stuff under there. Place the items on cookie trays for easy pulling out. Time to do some housecleaning. There is talk that Congress wants to cut back on food stamps. For folks like me that depend wholly on food stamps for food money, that could greatly affect my diabetic diet. 

Time to give this some serious thought. Great subject.


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## GotGarlic (Jul 22, 2012)

We just came back from Michigan and the corn and soybean crops in the Midwest are indeed devastated. Even if they got a lot of rain now, it's too late for pollination and growth, so they're gone. Also, northern Michigan is where a lot of cherries and apples in this country are grown. Those crops were killed in the spring; in March, unusually warm weather caused the trees to bloom and then the blossoms were killed by frost in April. So prices for cherry pie fillings, etc., will go up.

As someone said, meat prices will go down temporarily while farmers slaughter livestock for lack of food for them, but anything that includes corn products will be going up.

We don't have the space to stockpile much, either.


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## jabbur (Jul 22, 2012)

I heard on the radio that meteorologists say we are entering a weather cycle similar to the one in the 30's and the dust bowl era.  Expect the drought to last for a while.  I don't necessarily stockpile on purpose but tend to buy if it's on sale and has a good shelf life.  Most of the time I'm heading to the store for milk and bread and fresh veggies.


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## CWS4322 (Jul 22, 2012)

Rocklobster said:


> I heard meat like beef, pork, and chicken are going to rise because  the price of feed is going to become more expensive this fall. A twenty percent rise in price can add up to a lot of extra expense over the long winter...


Rock--in Renfrew County, the 2nd cutting of hay was hard hit. Whereas those round bales of hay were usually $30, they are now selling for 60-80. Corn has gone up 50% since about June 20th. We feed our chickens a mix of free-range and corn. Our eggs are now going to cost more. Corn is in so many products, that yes, they will go up most likely. Beef is supposed to go down briefly because farmers are getting rid of livestock--not worth feeding them. Dairy products will definitely go up--I've started stockpiling cheese. Because of the drought in the wheat-belt, we have already been paying higher prices for pasta, flour, etc. I stockpile pasta when it is on sale, flour, rice, etc. Maybe you can get a decent deal on 1/2 a steer or 1/2 pig (if you have room to store it). I saw $3.20/lb cut and wrapped for beef yesterday...tempting.

We picked up an old, non-working freezer (free to good home) to store the 10-12 bags of chicken feed we are buying tomorrow. Luckily, we have space <g>. Hopefully, that will get the flock through the winter, plus the corn we planted for them (it is looking a lot better than the fields around us--but, we shall see).


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## Katie H (Jul 22, 2012)

I've always been one to maintain a fully-stocked pantry and freezer.  We have one large upright freezer and the top freezers on both refrigerators.  Our inside pantry is quite well stocked with a variety of canned and dry goods.  The storage room has all the shelves with all the canned goods from our garden(s), along with extra paper goods.  We use very little in the way of tissues and paper towels, no paper napkins as we solely use cloth napkins.  The only other paper goods would be TP, which we buy in case lots at Sam's and one case lasts the two of us easily a couple of months.

As far as food prices going up...you bet.  We live in a farming community, both crops and livestock.  The drought has ruined many farmers and some have even seen their wells dry up, which is not good as they depend on the wells to fill the ponds that are used for irrigation.  No wells, no ponds, no irrigation, no crops.  Pretty simple.

Very few of the soy bean farmers will see any return on their hard work.  What rain does come..if there is any...is too late for the soy beans.  Even if they did rally, they still have to produce beans and that's not likely to happen.  The corn won't fare much better, but there will be some.  A great deal of the corn has just burned up in the fields.  The wheat was pathetic this year and as far as hay goes, kiss it off, too.  Many of our region's farmers are already filing their crop insurance claims and some are even selling their tractors, etc.  Farming is not a cheap job.

This leads to livestock.  They are suffering from lack of water and adequate feed, so you can see where our food prices will go.

Not only will our vegetable and meat prices rise, but anything that has wheat as an ingredient will be affected, so you might consider stockpiling flour, etc.

It's not pretty and I think we're all in for a bit of belt tightening and teeth grinding.  I'm not looking forward to it, but I know we'll manage.  Buck always said he never saw anyone who could make a penny squeal.  Well, I'm about to make one scream bloody murder.


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## CWS4322 (Jul 22, 2012)

We have 2 wells at the farm--we pumped one dry yesterday...hopefully it will recover. We were trying to get enough moisture on the corn and gardens to save what we could re: crops. We can still run the house well dry...probably not a good idea. 

I wash dishes in a tub and dump the grey water on the plants out there. We also have a bucket in the shower. And, when we refresh the dogs' water dishes, that no longer gets dumped, it gets put on the plants. When I boil water (as I'm doing today to freeze beans), when I change it, it doesn't go down the sink, it goes in a 22 gal. bucket to cool and be put on the tomato plants.

I'm so glad I didn't get sheep or a dairy goat this summer...I'd have to be buying them feed. The pennies have been screaming bloody murder around here for awhile...


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jul 22, 2012)

On a side note, re: the drought.  Our Administrator was going on about Community Responsibility and what we, as employees, were doing to promote our Community Responsibility.  I pinned her down about this and asked what the facility was doing...our (the facility) sprinklers run every day for lush green lawns, during the hottest part of the day.  I suggested they only run at night and run every other day instead of daily since most of the country is suffering through drought.  I know this won't help those in the midwest and the south, but it may just help those neighbors of ours who rely on water for their livelihood.  While the facility needs water, we don't really need it for the lawns.


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## CWS4322 (Jul 22, 2012)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> On a side note, re: the drought.  Our Administrator was going on about Community Responsibility and what we, as employees, were doing to promote our Community Responsibility.  I pinned her down about this and asked what the facility was doing...our (the facility) sprinklers run every day for lush green lawns, during the hottest part of the day.  I suggested they only run at night and run every other day instead of daily since most of the country is suffering through drought.  I know this won't help those in the midwest and the south, but it may just help those neighbors of ours who rely on water for their livelihood.  While the facility needs water, we don't really need it for the lawns.


Lawn? Ours look like cornflakes. Saves on the cost of mowing. I have 2 22 gal buckets of water on the side step for (1) the little tomato-swiss chard-lettuce-herb patch I keep at the house in the City, and (2) for my perennials. I spent a small fortune on those. I am about to install a bucket in the shower to catch that run-off as well. I can live without the green lawn, but when my food dries up...well, let's just say, I'm not happy. I would've been able to harvest black raspberries--but, they dried up. I got some, but not nearly as many as I might have been able to harvest. And, for those who don't know, no, they are not blackberries, they are black raspberries and are SOOOO sweet. The blueberries and June berries dried up as well, don't know if the apricot trees will survive.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jul 22, 2012)

I wish that any water-saving things I do at home would be of help to my friends here at DC.  As it is, I'm doing what I can to lower my water consumption, my shower and dish water is flushing the toilet.  And we are not hurting here in our valley like many folks are.


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## Claire (Jul 22, 2012)

I stockpile as much as possible with no freezer and limited cabinet space.  I do it mostly for the reason others mention, I like to be able to decide what to eat for dinner without having to go out to the grocery store every time I need something.  I also buy nonperishables when I find a good sale, but, really, I live in a town with 2 grocery stores.  The sales aren't usually a lot to write home about.


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## Addie (Jul 23, 2012)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> On a side note, re: the drought. Our Administrator was going on about Community Responsibility and what we, as employees, were doing to promote our Community Responsibility. I pinned her down about this and asked what the facility was doing...our (the facility) sprinklers run every day for lush green lawns, during the hottest part of the day. I suggested they only run at night and run every other day instead of daily since most of the country is suffering through drought. I know this won't help those in the midwest and the south, but it may just help those neighbors of ours who rely on water for their livelihood. While the facility needs water, we don't really need it for the lawns.


 
I am happy to report that here in Massachusetts, when we are in drought conditions, the first edict to come our way is "No lawn watering." And "No car washing." 

A couple of years ago Lake Lanier in Georgia went down considerably. My girlfriend has a cottage and in normal conditions the water comes right up to her dock and is quite deep. During the last major drought they had to walk five minutes to get to the water. The lake still hasn't recovered fully. And now it is starting to recede again.


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## Hoot (Jul 23, 2012)

In NC we are in a moderate drought condition. 'Course we had some very heavy rain most of the day on Saturday. Not enough to break a drought. Unfortunately we will likely need a tropical storm or hurricane to really bring enough water here to help.

 Ain't that a fine choice to have to make? Prayin' for a hurricane or gettin dried up and blown away. Still, I think we will squeak by, cropwise.
Don't the Mormons advocate keepin' a year's supply of food on hand, or was that some other group? Don't matter who it was, I reckon it's something we all might need to look at.


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## Addie (Jul 23, 2012)

Hoot said:


> In NC we are in a moderate drought condition. 'Course we had some very heavy rain most of the day on Saturday. Not enough to break a drought. Unfortunately we will likely need a tropical storm or hurricane to really bring enough water here to help.
> 
> Ain't that a fine choice to have to make? Prayin' for a hurricane or gettin dried up and blown away. Still, I think we will squeak by, cropwise.
> Don't the Mormons advocate keepin' a year's supply of food on hand, or was that some other group? Don't matter who it was, I reckon it's something we all might need to look at.


 
Yes it is the Mormons. I had a girlfriend in Tacoma and she along with her mother practiced it. Her mother said you would never see a Mormon on welfare. They take care of their own and there is always enough food in the community to help others. Not a bad practice. When I went to Spokane, to visit her mother she was canning a crate of tomatoes. She showed me her cellar where she had all her canning and other dry good stored. Every month she would rotate them so that the oldest got used first. I think it is a great practice.


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## CWS4322 (Jul 23, 2012)

In my collection of 1000+ cookbooks, I was just reading "A Family Raised on Sunshine" which is written by Beverly K. Nye. It includes the "plan" for storing one-year's worth of food, including the wheat to grind one's own flour. We end up with about nine months' worth of veggies once the garden is done. But definitely don't have a year's worth and we do have to go the grocery store regularly.

In her book, she does something neat re: storing empty canning jars--she refills them with water and seals them (so--cans water). This way, the water requirement gets met, and the jars are clean for the next year--that part I like!


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jul 23, 2012)

Rocklobster said:


> I am seriously considering stockpiling some food items for the coming winter. With the drought in Eastern Canada and some of the US, you can bet the food prices will rise. I am thinking flour, cornmeal, beef, chicken for sure. Maybe canola oil. Anything else be affected by the drought?



Any livestock or livestock products from animals that eat corn.  Think milk, cream, goose, veal, beef, pork, chicken, eggs, etc.  Stock up on canned or frozen sweet corn, or corn products that you use, including some salsa's, corn meal, masa harina, etc.

By the way, that's good thinking.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## taxlady (Jul 23, 2012)

Addie said:


> I am happy to report that here in Massachusetts, when we are in drought conditions, the first edict to come our way is "No lawn watering." And "No car washing."
> 
> A couple of years ago Lake Lanier in Georgia went down considerably. My girlfriend has a cottage and in normal conditions the water comes right up to her dock and is quite deep. During the last major drought they had to walk five minutes to get to the water. The lake still hasn't recovered fully. And now it is starting to recede again.


No watering of lawns here. Normally we are only allowed to water lawns in the evening and only on certain days, depending on your house number.

In Denmark, when there is a drought, you can still water your lawn. You can water anything you want to water, as along as you water by hand and don't use a hose. I'm sure they have different rules for farmers.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jul 23, 2012)

Addie said:


> Yes it is the Mormons. I had a girlfriend in Tacoma and she along with her mother practiced it. Her mother said you would never see a Mormon on welfare. They take care of their own and there is always enough food in the community to help others. Not a bad practice. When I went to Spokane, to visit her mother she was canning a crate of tomatoes. She showed me her cellar where she had all her canning and other dry good stored. Every month she would rotate them so that the oldest got used first. I think it is a great practice.



Yup.  I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (the Mormons), and we do try to keep a stockpile of food essentials around in case of things like drought, blizzards, hurricanes, and other disasters, natural, or man-made.  It just makes sense.  Originally, we were advised to keep a two year supply of food, water, and fuel.  As that is very difficult for many, the amount has been reduced.

Foods to keep are things like rice, wheat, dried legumes, honey, sugar, freeze-dried, or dehydrated foods, seasonings, etc.  We are also advised to plant and keep gardens, and can the foods we grow, if possible.

Way too many things can disrupt the food supply.  It just makes sense.  I have some foods, but not what I should have.  My garden is doing very well right now, and so I am starting to purchase canning supplies, and enjoying the fruits of my early labor.

The idea of stockpiling is to give yourself a nutritious cache of food for emergencies that is worth eating.  It doesn't need to be gourmet, but has to be good enough to eat for a good period of time.

I personally know of several people, including me and my family, who have lived off of food storage when between jobs (such as when i was out fresh out of the Navy, living in Spokane, with no jobs available during the recession of 82/83).  You never know when the unexpected can rise up and hit you.  It's a good idea.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## Skittle68 (Jul 23, 2012)

Greg Who Cooks said:
			
		

> I like stockpiling food even if for no other reason than convenience. For example, if you use chicken stock and you see it on sale, why not buy a dozen cans? Then the next dozen times you need it you won't have to put it on your shopping list, or take another 1-2 minutes to add it to your shopping cart.



I agree with this completely. I'm pretty good about rotating and remembering what needs to get used so that things don't get old, but I still feel like my bf must think I'm crazy to have so much food for two people. But if cream soup is on sale, I buy a bunch. It will get used, and that way I never pay the normal store price.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jul 23, 2012)

Skittle68 said:


> I agree with this completely. I'm pretty good about rotating and remembering what needs to get used so that things don't get old, but I still feel like my bf must think I'm crazy to have so much food for two people. But if cream soup is on sale, I buy a bunch. It will get used, and that way I never pay the normal store price.



That's the second comment in this discussion about rotation so I decided to add a few words on the subject.

There are two kinds of inventory systems, LIFO and FIFO. Last In First Out is often used for convenience when the product lasts indefinitely (perhaps nails or bricks), you put items on the shelf and push them to the back if you need more room. First In First Out is the preferred method for perishable items, even long term items such as canned foods. You can either add new items at the back of the shelf and remove off the front, or vice versa. With this system you're always using the oldest product first. (I suppose there's a third system: random, often adopted with people who aren't control freaks.  )

I like to put new items at the back of the shelf so the oldest item is conveniently located at the front of the shelf when I need it. I also like to use a permanent marker and mark the month and year on the can, bottle or package. (Example: currently _712_.) Then if there is any uncertainty which item is oldest I can just look at my markings. (This is a lot easier than having to find use-by or made-on markings since they vary from product to product.)

I'm curious if anybody has any system other than add to the back remove from the front, or vice versa.


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## Skittle68 (Jul 23, 2012)

Greg Who Cooks said:
			
		

> That's the second comment in this discussion about rotation so I decided to add a few words on the subject.
> 
> There are two kinds of inventory systems, LIFO and FIFO. Last In First Out is often used for convenience when the product lasts indefinitely (perhaps nails or bricks), you put items on the shelf and push them to the back if you need more room. First In First Out is the preferred method for perishable items, even long term items such as canned foods. You can either add new items at the back of the shelf and remove off the front, or vice versa. With this system you're always using the oldest product first. (I suppose there's a third system: random, often adopted with people who aren't control freaks.  )
> 
> ...



I use the FIFO method. New items go to the back, and freezer items get dated with a marker. Not a bad idea to mark pantry items too tho. I keep everything in a pretty meticulous order- soups and vegetables each have their own row on the shelf, label facing out, but I can just picture my bf rummaging through, seeing if there are different kinds in the back lol. He is sort of a bull in a china shop sometimes.  I could pretty much tell you where everything is in the freezer too. Everything has has it's own spot lol


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jul 23, 2012)

Actually I can't imagine anybody storing food using any system other than FIFO.

I use the same date marking system in my pantry too, and in fact on practically everything food related unless it's something like coffee filters which of course don't matter.

Using some sort of date marking is particularly important for spices, and for bottled items like sauces that you keep in your refrigerator. I've sometimes found items at the back of my fridge that were 3-5 years old! Needless to say I threw them out.


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## taxlady (Jul 23, 2012)

Greg Who Cooks said:


> Actually I can't imagine anybody storing food using any system other than FIFO.
> 
> I use the same date marking system in my pantry too, and in fact on practically everything food related unless it's something like coffee filters which of course don't matter.
> 
> Using some sort of date marking is particularly important for spices, and for bottled items like sauces that you keep in your refrigerator. I've sometimes found items at the back of my fridge that were 3-5 years old! Needless to say I threw them out.


I think I will start marking the pantry and bottled items. It's a good idea. I mark leftovers and freezer items. I either mark the date as 2012-07-23 or just 2012-07, depending on my mood and what it is.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jul 23, 2012)

That's a good idea about marking what it is! I began doing that too after sometimes finding "freezer mysteries" where I had to defrost them to find out what they were.


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## CWS4322 (Jul 23, 2012)

taxlady said:


> I think I will start marking the pantry and bottled items. It's a good idea. I mark leftovers and freezer items. I either mark the date as 2012-07-23 or just 2012-07, depending on my mood and what it is.


I implemented that system with my parents pantry and freezer a few years ago. Anything that is marked the previous year/July - August, I either use up or get rid of. My parents are hoarders.


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## CWS4322 (Jul 23, 2012)

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> Yup.  I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (the Mormons), and we do try to keep a stockpile of food essentials around in case of things like drought, blizzards, hurricanes, and other disasters, natural, or man-made.  It just makes sense.  Originally, we were advised to keep a two year supply of food, water, and fuel.  As that is very difficult for many, the amount has been reduced.
> 
> Foods to keep are things like rice, wheat, dried legumes, honey, sugar, freeze-dried, or dehydrated foods, seasonings, etc.  We are also advised to plant and keep gardens, and can the foods we grow, if possible.
> 
> ...


Work opportunities have been very sporadic since fall 2007. If it weren't for the gardens (and the hens), I would have been using the food bank. I eat well, but I don't spend a lot at the grocery store each week. I don't shop to make a recipe, I cook based on what I have on hand. I replenish the fresh stuff--milk, butter, etc., as needed and always stockpile butter when it is on special.


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## Katie H (Jul 23, 2012)

I have a magnetic "white" board on the door of the upright freezer where I list what is in the freezer and wipe off the items as I use them.  That helps, plus I don't have to open the freezer door and let cool escape while I search for one food or another.


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## CWS4322 (Jul 23, 2012)

Katie H said:


> I have a magnetic "white" board on the door of the upright freezer where I list what is in the freezer and wipe off the items as I use them.  That helps, plus I don't have to open the freezer door and let cool escape while I search for one food or another.


I just use a white board marker on the freezer itself...works for me except when I don't label what goes in (or I get stuff from friends who move!).


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## Somebunny (Jul 23, 2012)

Katie, that is a great idea.  I am going to get a magnetic white board and try this!  Thank you!


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## CWS4322 (Jul 24, 2012)

Somebunny said:


> Katie, that is a great idea.  I am going to get a magnetic white board and try this!  Thank you!


You don't need a white board--a white board marker works fine on the freezer and you can wipe it off as you go.


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## Rocklobster (Jul 24, 2012)

I keep my frozen items in categories, separated into different milk crates. I have one for beef, chicken, pork, fish and miscellaneous items. Its easy to pull them out and root around and see what's in there. I can empty my freezer in about 15 seconds.. then put everything back just as quick and easy.


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## Skittle68 (Jul 24, 2012)

Rocklobster said:
			
		

> I keep my frozen items in categories, separated into different milk crates. I have one for beef, chicken, pork, fish and miscellaneous items. Its easy to pull them out and root around and see what's in there. I can empty my freezer in about 15 seconds.. then put everything back just as quick and easy.



My mom does the same thing


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## taxlady (Jul 24, 2012)

Rocklobster said:


> I keep my frozen items in categories, separated into different milk crates. I have one for beef, chicken, pork, fish and miscellaneous items. Its easy to pull them out and root around and see what's in there. I can empty my freezer in about 15 seconds.. then put everything back just as quick and easy.


I might just copy that idea.


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## Andy M. (Jul 24, 2012)

Rocklobster said:


> I keep my frozen items in categories, separated into different milk crates. I have one for beef, chicken, pork, fish and miscellaneous items. Its easy to pull them out and root around and see what's in there. I can empty my freezer in about 15 seconds.. then put everything back just as quick and easy.



I use bins on the shelves of my freezer too.  Beef, pork, chicken, fish, etc.  But then there are the spaces in between that have to be filled.  That space gets containers of sauce, soup, bacon.  That's when it gets messy.

When SO does a lot of baking, especially around the holidays, chaos ensues.  baked goods are delicate and take a lot of space so they get crammed in whichever bin or corner is available.

The idea of using bins is a great one.  The execution is not so great.


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## CWS4322 (Jul 26, 2012)

I was listening to a local talk show today. The topic was the drought and how this might translate at the grocery store. Because the corn production is forecast to be 30% of what it normally would be, and because of the drought, honey is going to be going up in price. Nothing for the bees to eat=no honey produced (garlic, on the other hand, is loving this weather--garlic harvest is 2 weeks early). Less corn syrup available means that sugar will also be going up in price. Two products I hadn't thought of buying now. I did pick up cornstarch today. Unfortunately, I heard this program on my way home, not my way to the store.


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## Addie (Jul 26, 2012)

I was sitting out front with some of the residents. I mentioned that anything that is corn or has corn in it, is going to skyrocket in price. I got "Oh, prices are going to go up anyhow. Nothing you can do about it. Those are just scare tactics." I just sat there amazed. How do you deal with folks like that? My comment started a conversation about food. It seems that some folks will only buy the most expensive name brands. 

For those of us here that receive food stamps we pretty much get the same amount. When I mentioned that I very rarely use all of mine each month, they were surprised. They just barely make it through to the middle of the month. This month I spent less than half of mine at the store on the third of the month. Since then, I may have had to spend maybe another ten dollars. For half and half, or some can good I may need. Because they roll over, on the first of June I will have more than $200 in my food stamp account. So since prices are going to be rising, this would be a good time for me to start stocking up. I will have the food stamps and will stock up on household goods.

Those are cash items. Son #1 has a contractors account at Home Depot and buys me what I need on his account. The items are industrial strength and come in larger sizes than what you find at the grocery store. I would normally buy a box of 20 large green trash can liners at the grocery store. My son buys me 100 for almost the same price. He picks up a five gallon jug of bleach and fills the empty gallon jug for me from it. Sometimes we split a purchase between us. This month I need a large fabric softener. Another five gallon purchase. Each month I buy one household item at Home Depot. Because most items I buy there are industrial strength, I use less of it each time and it lasts longer. 

I also was talking to the woman that runs the Food Bank at the church. They usually get about 15 people. This past week they got more than 30. So I am going to increase my donation also. An extra large box of cereal. A lot of the families had children. It is harder to feed a family in the summer. The kids are out of school, thus no free breakfast or lunch. I can't stand the thought of a child going hungry.


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## Rocklobster (Jul 26, 2012)

Andy M. said:


> I use bins on the shelves of my freezer too.  Beef, pork, chicken, fish, etc.  But then there are the spaces in between that have to be filled.  That space gets containers of sauce, soup, bacon.  That's when it gets messy.
> 
> When SO does a lot of baking, especially around the holidays, chaos ensues.  baked goods are delicate and take a lot of space so they get crammed in whichever bin or corner is available.
> 
> The idea of using bins is a great one.  The execution is not so great.


My freezer still gets messy. Sometimes you don't feel like pulling the milk crates out to put things in their proper places so you lie to yourself and say "I'll just put this here for now and sort it out later" Sooner than later, things get cluttered. But, at least the majority of stuff is where it should be most of the time...


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## CWS4322 (Jul 27, 2012)

Addie said:


> I also was talking to the woman that runs the Food Bank at the church. They usually get about 15 people. This past week they got more than 30. So I am going to increase my donation also. An extra large box of cereal. A lot of the families had children. It is harder to feed a family in the summer. The kids are out of school, thus no free breakfast or lunch. I can't stand the thought of a child going hungry.


That surprises me (that the food bank has a higher demand during the summer), and saddens me. With the ability to plant a garden, food costs during the summer months should be much lower than during the winter months and it is heartbreaking that families with children aren't able to do that (live in apartments, don't have the space, money for seeds, etc.). I spent the whole day processing Chard, beans, and bok choy. And, I collected 14 eggs. And, I have invited friends with kids to come out and gather eggs, pick beans, etc.


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## Addie (Jul 29, 2012)

CWS4322 said:


> That surprises me (that the food bank has a higher demand during the summer), and saddens me. With the ability to plant a garden, food costs during the summer months should be much lower than during the winter months and it is heartbreaking that families with children aren't able to do that (live in apartments, don't have the space, money for seeds, etc.). I spent the whole day processing Chard, beans, and bok choy. And, I collected 14 eggs. And, I have invited friends with kids to come out and gather eggs, pick beans, etc.


 
Folks who receive food stamps can purchase seeds as long as they are for food items. We have a community garden, but it is way down at the end of Eastie and not easy to get to. It is overseen by the Y. Like you said, if you live in an apartment, most landlords won't let you plant a garden in the backyard. They want the yard for relaxing. We have what we refer to as 'triple deckers'. They are stand alone buildings. They are apartments that have anywhere from three to as many as six rooms each. They stand alone and in the back of the building is a small yard. Usually, the landlord lives in one of the apartments. Most often on the second floor. The first floor has the least rooms. The landlord has all the rights to the yard. Some triple deckers have back porches and you can have container gardens. These triple deckers were built in the late 1800's. The back porches are made of wood and are now crumbling. So a lot of them have been removed and replaced with iron fire escapes.


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## Constance (Jul 29, 2012)

Rocklobster said:


> I am seriously considering stockpiling some food items for the coming winter. With the drought in Eastern Canada and some of the US, you can bet the food prices will rise. I am thinking flour, cornmeal, beef, chicken for sure. Maybe canola oil. Anything else be affected by the drought?



Anything made with or depending on corn or soybeans.


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## bakechef (Jul 29, 2012)

Rocklobster said:
			
		

> I keep my frozen items in categories, separated into different milk crates. I have one for beef, chicken, pork, fish and miscellaneous items. Its easy to pull them out and root around and see what's in there. I can empty my freezer in about 15 seconds.. then put everything back just as quick and easy.



I use a similar system, but I use the reusable woven shopping bags.  I never have to worry about finding stuff in the bottom of the freezer because everything is in bags.  If I need chicken, I grab the chicken bag, beef, etc...   I have a smaller deep freeze so this works well, I could see the crates working well in a larger one.

Seeing as there is likely to be a price drop when herds are slaughtered because of lack of corn, I will be keeping a Sharp eye out for sales.  I am going to try to fill my freezer good and full, before the prices spike.


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## Addie (Jul 29, 2012)

I have been making up my grocery list for the next month. To be honest, I can't think of anything that I need to stockpile up on. I have plenty of sugar, coffee, frozen veggies, cooking supplies, (oil, flour, etc.). The only thing I really need to stock up on is butter. Plus I have the problem of having room to stockpile. Maybe when I get to the supermarket I will see things that I didn't think of when making up my list. I don't use that many can goods. Mostly tomato products. And I have plenty of them. So I have somewhat of a dilemma. I want to stockpile while I have the opportunity, I just don't know which direction to go in. 

Any suggestions?


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jul 29, 2012)

One nice thing about stockpiling butter, as far as my experience tells me it freezes fine and lasts many months with little or no effect. Whenever I buy a pound I separate three of the sticks and throw them in a zip lock bag and put them in the freezer, and keep the fourth in my refrigerator. When I'm getting low I just take a stick out of the freezer a few days before I anticipate running out of unfrozen.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jul 30, 2012)

I have to eat a bunch of pomegranate popsicles to make room in my little freezer.  And somehow some UFO's ended up in the fridge freezer...


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## Addie (Jul 30, 2012)

Greg Who Cooks said:


> One nice thing about stockpiling butter, as far as my experience tells me it freezes fine and lasts many months with little or no effect. Whenever I buy a pound I separate three of the sticks and throw them in a zip lock bag and put them in the freezer, and keep the fourth in my refrigerator. When I'm getting low I just take a stick out of the freezer a few days before I anticipate running out of unfrozen.


 
I have become the butt of family jokes about butter. The whole family has a love affair going with Cabot butter. Because we are in such close proximity to Vermont, we get fresh shipments in every day. Every so often Vermont produces a plethora of butter and ships it to us the same day. So it goes on sale. If I could, I would fill my freezer with it. I use the house brand for baking, but Cabot's for personal use. When on sale, I have been known to buy six or more pounds at a time. Then I will send my son to other supermarkets the next week when it goes on sale at other stores. I would eat butter on a popsicle stick if it weren't so ridiculous. I just love butter. And if it is Cabot's, all the better. I would put it on bacon and salt pork. You get the picture. I LOVE BUTTER. And if it is Cabot's, all the better. It is the closest to farm fresh you can get in these here parts. 

When I worked with my 4-H kids at the Fair, at 5 a.m. I would go out to the dairy barn for fresh cream right from the cows as they were being milked, butter from the creamery, and eggs right from the chickens still warm in the coops for my breakfast. Life doesn't get any better than that. Now I live in the city and have to wait for it all to come to me. Just doesn't taste the same.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jul 30, 2012)

Wow. I never heard of anybody who loved butter that much!  I may have bought two pounds occasionally (sale) but usually content myself with a pound at a time.

If I had to hunker down for a month with no grocery shopping trips (and could plan ahead) the only thing I would miss would be fresh vegetables.


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## bakechef (Jul 30, 2012)

When I go to BJ's I get it 4 pounds at a time, usually 4 pounds salted and 4 pounds unsalted...

I use it mostly for baking and some for cooking.  I usually buy 8 pounds every other month.


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## CWS4322 (Jul 30, 2012)

I buy butter when it is on sale--I like Land O'Lakes unsalted, probably because I grew up in MN. I currently have 8 lb of butter in the freezer, 1/2 lb in the fridge.


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## CWS4322 (Jul 30, 2012)

Addie said:


> When I worked with my 4-H kids at the Fair, at 5 a.m. I would go out to the dairy barn for fresh cream right from the cows as they were being milked, butter from the creamery, and eggs right from the chickens still warm in the coops for my breakfast. Life doesn't get any better than that. Now I live in the city and have to wait for it all to come to me. Just doesn't taste the same.


I'm on the "hunt" for a cull dairy cow that will allow me to hand milk it...although, with my poor hand thanks to Rocky, I'm not sure I could handle handmilking...I want to make cheese! If I could get a Zebu locally (these are "mini" cows), that would be very, very tempting. And, raw milk is the best fertilizer for the garden, so excess milk would not go to waste. So tempting...we keep talking about it...


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## Addie (Jul 30, 2012)

CWS4322 said:


> I'm on the "hunt" for a cull dairy cow that will allow me to hand milk it...although, with my poor hand thanks to Rocky, I'm not sure I could handle hand milking...I want to make cheese! If I could get a Zebu locally (these are "mini" cows), that would be very, very tempting. And, raw milk is the best fertilizer for the garden, so excess milk would not go to waste. So tempting...we keep talking about it...


 
Keep in mind, dairy animals are seven day/twice daily care animals. No vacations unless you have kind neighbors or can afford to hire someone to come in each day. Forget about getting sick. And you definitely don't want a heifer. Unless you can afford stud fees. They can run into the thousands of dollars. 

One of my 4-H kids sold one vial of semen from her prize bull for $5,000. Her feed money for the coming year.


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## Addie (Jul 30, 2012)

CWS4322 said:


> I buy butter when it is on sale--I like Land O'Lakes unsalted, probably because I grew up in MN. I currently have 8 lb of butter in the freezer, 1/2 lb in the fridge.


 
Our closest LOL butter facility is located in NJ. Cabot's in Vermont is so much closer. So the butter is fresher.


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## CWS4322 (Jul 30, 2012)

Addie said:


> Keep in mind, dairy animals are seven day/twice daily care animals. No vacations unless you have kind neighbors or can afford to hire someone to come in each day. Forget about getting sick. And you definitely don't want a heifer. Unless you can afford stud fees. They can run into the thousands of dollars.
> 
> One of my 4-H kids sold one vial of semen from her prize bull for $5,000. Her feed money for the coming year.


The 2x/day milking requirement is the stumbling block. We have pasture at the farm, but no one lives at the farm. The chickens are enough of a commitment because we don't have a lock-down area attached to the coop. They are locked up at night, but allowed out during the day in the fenced backyard. Even with the fence, the little buggers still sometimes get on the other side of the fence and one has to go chicken hunting...


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## Addie (Jul 30, 2012)

CWS4322 said:


> The 2x/day milking requirement is the stumbling block. We have pasture at the farm, but no one lives at the farm. The chickens are enough of a commitment because we don't have a lock-down area attached to the coop. They are locked up at night, but allowed out during the day in the fenced backyard. Even with the fence, the little buggers still sometimes get on the other side of the fence and one has to go chicken hunting...


 
The initial money investment for equipment can also be another stumbling block. Vet bills, regular TB testing, milking machine, separators, cooling equipment, etc. Need I go on? Dairy is a* major* commitment. You have to ask yourself, "Am I willing to make that much of an investment for just one cow?"


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## tropical cooker (Jul 31, 2012)

*Freezer stocking*

Something to consider.  If the power goes for more that a day, everything in a freezer may not survive. 

Climate change will cause storms that may knock out power more often.


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## Hoot (Jul 31, 2012)

tropical cooker said:


> Something to consider.  *If the power goes for more that a day, everything in a freezer may not survive.
> *



After Isabel, we try not to keep too much in the freezer section of the refrigerator for that very reason during hurricane season. In the big old chest freezer, I learned from Isabel, that even after a loss of power for 8 days, nearly everything in there was still frozen. 'Course, we never opened the lid on that freezer till the lights came back on.


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## CWS4322 (Jul 31, 2012)

tropical cooker said:


> Something to consider.  If the power goes for more that a day, everything in a freezer may not survive.
> 
> Climate change will cause storms that may knock out power more often.


If you have a generator, you don't have to worry about that. We lost power for 12 days in 1998 during an Ice Storm. The stuff in the freezer survived thanks to the generator.


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## CWS4322 (Aug 3, 2012)

Another crop that has been hard hit is the soy crop. This means products containing soy (e.g., vegetable oil) will most likely go up as well. And, soybeans are a huge source of protein in animal feeds.


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## chopper (Aug 3, 2012)

CWS4322 said:
			
		

> Another crop that has been hard hit is the soy crop. This means products containing soy (e.g., vegetable oil) will most likely go up as well. And, soybeans are a huge source of protein in animal feeds.



Time to buy the big bottle of soy sauce at SAMs!  Thanks for the warning.


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## CWS4322 (Aug 3, 2012)

Because we grow so much of the food we eat the rest of the year, watching the weather and crop futures are somewhat of hobbies here. I haven't heard "boo" about wheat, but the crop was poor last year, and that has contributed to the increased prices for flour and pasta. And, the Canadian Wheat Marketing Board has been declared a monopoly. Canadian wheat growers can now sell wheat to US markets. That may prove interesting re: pasta and flour prices. Flour prices in the US are typically higher than here in Canada.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Aug 3, 2012)

From all the information I've seen and irrespective of the cause (man made? natural?) it appears that we may be facing increased temperatures, more unstable weather and altered climates (for example, one place gets drier, another place gets more rain). It seems to me that in the long run none of us will be able to avoid higher prices, and scarcity may become increasingly common. Probably best we can do is make the best use of our money and storing food and save a little bit in the long run.


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## CWS4322 (Aug 3, 2012)

Certainly, it may mean changing one's eating (and cooking) habits. Ironically, things that do NOT like hot weather, e.g., bok choy, are doing amazingly well this year in our garden. The lack of rain has delayed the tomato production here (the two that were yellow yesterday are orange today--but two almost ripe tomatoes on almost 300 plants is not very promising--I so want to start harvesting tomatoes!), but our sweet corn is doing fine. Mind you, we have been watering every other day or so since the beginning of July.


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## justplainbill (Aug 3, 2012)

Glad I like rice & beans.


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## Stock Pot (Aug 7, 2012)

*Things that keep*

I agree it is time to stockpile. At the very least, rice, beans, dried  spices and anything else that will keep for a year or more without  freezing. I have also filled our freezer with chicken and beef. The  cattlemen have been slaughtering their herds due to the high cost of  grain so there has been a temporary glut; this will be followed by  shortages for the same reason (high grain prices), so I figured the time  to stock up is now.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Aug 7, 2012)

The end of the world is Dec. 21, 2012!!! Stock up! Repent!


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## blissful (Aug 7, 2012)

Greg Who Cooks said:


> The end of the world is Dec. 21, 2012!!! Stock up! Repent!


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## Stock Pot (Aug 7, 2012)

Oh, well in that case why bother, lol.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Aug 7, 2012)

Exactly my thoughts.


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## blissful (Aug 8, 2012)

buckytom said:


> i'm stockpiling mexican food because of the mayan long count calendar...



See now this is something that makes sense.


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## Skittle68 (Aug 8, 2012)

Originally Posted by buckytom
i'm stockpiling mexican food because of the mayan long count calendar...


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## blissful (Aug 8, 2012)

Skittles....
When I was a little kid, we planted time capsules at a new school and then opened them up 25 years later. Most of that stuff, was just like that. Something that meant very little and kind of freaked us all out.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Aug 8, 2012)

Almost everything becomes irrelevant as time passes.  we learn knew, and sometimes better ways of overcoming problems.  Sometimes our solutions create new and more difficult problems (as a race, we're really good at that).  There is only one thing that I know is an absolute constant:  I get better looking every day.

"O lord it's hard to me humble
when you're perfect in every way..." - Sang by - Ray Stevens, I think.  adopted by me.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## Dawgluver (Aug 8, 2012)

Chief Longwind Of The North said:
			
		

> There is only one thing that I know is an absolute constant:  I get better looking every day.
> 
> "O lord it's hard to me humble
> when you're perfect in every way..." - Sang by - Ray Stevens, I think.  adopted by me.
> ...



Is your last name Gray, by chance?  

The version I remember was Mac Davis, Chief.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Aug 8, 2012)

Dawgluver said:


> Is your last name Gray, by chance?
> 
> The version I remember was Mac Davis, Chief.



No, Dorian was my evil twin.  I'm a nice guy.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## buckytom (Aug 8, 2012)

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> There is only one thing that I know is an absolute constant:  I get better looking every day.



ah, the curse of all those born on september 30th.

it is our cross to bear, brother.


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## blissful (Aug 8, 2012)

buckytom said:


> ah, the curse of all those born on september 30th.
> 
> it is our cross to bear, brother.



As we age, we might need glasses, as time goes on. The older we get the stronger the glasses needed. It certainly does help us deal with our mirror image and that sight of our significant others.
Except for you two of course, you are special, such a bear to cross or is it a cross to bear.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Aug 9, 2012)

buckytom said:


> ah, the curse of all those born on september 30th.
> 
> it is our cross to bear, brother.



And bear it we will, with heads held high, setting the example for those with lesser trials.  Be strong.  Be valiant.  You are that shining example for those on the Eastern Seaboard.  I am the same in the Great lakes region.  Together we stand, like Apollo in ancient Greek mythos, or Adonis.

And Blissful - bear to cross, cross to bear - it all depends on how early in the morning it is.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind fo the North


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## CharlieD (Aug 9, 2012)

I wonder if draught is affecting gas prices. Pretty soon it will be $4 here, that is just outrages. Thank G-d, I think I could survive 6 month siege in my house. Might be short on vegies, but plenty of meat. And that is all I care anyways.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Aug 9, 2012)

CharlieD said:


> I wonder if draught is affecting gas prices. Pretty soon it will be $4 here, that is just outrages. Thank G-d, I think I could survive 6 month siege in my house. Might be short on vegies, but plenty of meat. And that is all I care anyways.



We can always worry about something, anything. For example, what would happen to your 6 months worth of meat if the power grid went down? Maybe you live in an area where you can shoot more meat.


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## CharlieD (Aug 9, 2012)

Greg Who Cooks said:


> .... Maybe you live in an area where you can shoot more meat.


 
 Indeed I do, but it wouldn't be kosher, so I could nt eat it.


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## taxlady (Aug 9, 2012)

CharlieD said:


> Indeed I do, but it wouldn't be kosher, so I could nt eat it.


When I lived in the country, there was a story about a rabbi who managed to shoot a deer with a bow and arrow, in the neck, in such a way that it was kosher.


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## CharlieD (Aug 9, 2012)

That must of been some shut. Of course urban legends are always have good shuts, good story, the best, the bigest etc, and so on and so forth.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Aug 9, 2012)

taxlady said:


> When I lived in the country, there was a story about a rabbi who managed to shoot a deer with a bow and arrow, in the neck, in such a way that it was kosher.


Wait, doesn't Kosher law prohibit the consumption of meat from cloven hoofed animals?  I may be way off on this.  But after a lifetime of tracking deer tracks, with my Dad (though we never actually saw one from our tracking efforts) I do know that deer have cloven hoofs.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## CharlieD (Aug 9, 2012)

For the slaughter to be consider kosher animal has to be killed with absolutely perfectly sharp knife, without any nicks, the animal’s trachea and esophagus has to be cut in a single motion, cut. So the animal would die instantaneously. As you can imagine it would be really hard to do with an arrow. Besides hunting is prohibited in Jewish law as it may cause unnecessary pain and suffering to an animal.


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## CharlieD (Aug 9, 2012)

Only animal with the split hoof is kosher. Deer do have split hoof.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Aug 9, 2012)

CharlieD said:


> Only animal with the split hoof is kosher. Deer do have split hoof.



I stand corrected.  

Seeeeeya;  Chief Longwind of the North


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## CWS4322 (Aug 10, 2012)

FWIW, chicken scratch (which contains corn) has gone up $2 (I think the bags are 100 lb bags) since the end of June. It had been the same price since I got the hens a year ago June.


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## CWS4322 (Aug 30, 2012)

The canola harvest is predicted to be very good this year on the Canadian prairies. Another side effect of the drought in the US:

Drought Causes Shortage in Wis. Cow Chip Throw - ABC News

Who would have thought?


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## Addie (Aug 30, 2012)

CWS4322 said:


> The canola harvest is predicted to be very good this year on the Canadian prairies. Another side effect of the drought in the US:
> 
> Drought Causes Shortage in Wis. Cow Chip Throw - ABC News
> 
> Who would have thought?


 
When dried, they also make good fuel for burning for heat and cooking. We also have watermelon seed spitting contests, and a few other ones.


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## Dawgluver (Aug 30, 2012)

CWS4322 said:
			
		

> The canola harvest is predicted to be very good this year on the Canadian prairies. Another side effect of the drought in the US:
> 
> Drought Causes Shortage in Wis. Cow Chip Throw - ABC News
> 
> Who would have thought?



Got a good laugh from this!  Who knew?


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## CWS4322 (Aug 30, 2012)

Dawgluver said:


> Got a good laugh from this!  Who knew?


So did I (get a good laugh). I wonder which lucky volunteer gets to store the reserve barrels of cow patties.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Aug 31, 2012)

Funny how we could develop a discussion about cow chips (AKA cow flops) in a forum about cooking and eating... 

When I was a kid my parents took me camping in the High Sierras (eastern California mountains) and we used to catch the late afternoon early evening trout fishing on inlets to Crowley Lake. (Big trout like these inlets because their food comes floating down the stream.)

The land around the lake is also used for cattle ranching and there is a plentiful supply of cow flops. I liked trout fishing but maybe not such an enthusiast as my dad (I was a tweener, easily distracted like all tweeners) so it would get cold sometimes, and while waiting for my dad I used to make cow flop fires to stay warm.

I had heard this technique from a local resident and the advice proved out. The most important thing is to get only _mature_ cow flops. You would think they would smell but that's not the case at all, provided you find very dry ones. (There were a lot to choose from there.) They made a very nice fire without a hint as to the source of the fuel (although they didn't have the nice aroma of mesquite or pine). We were surrounded by wetlands so there was never any chance of the fire spreading.

Anyway cow flop fires are great to keep you warm on a cold evening, and very plentiful in cattle lands.


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## CWS4322 (Aug 31, 2012)

Greg Who Cooks said:


> Funny how we could develop a discussion about cow chips (AKA cow flops) in a forum about cooking and eating...
> 
> When I was a kid my parents took me camping in the High Sierras (eastern California mountains) and we used to catch the late afternoon early evening trout fishing on inlets to Crowley Lake. (Big trout like these inlets because their food comes floating down the stream.)
> 
> ...


Another reason to get a dairy cow--a source of fuel for the wood stove...


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## Greg Who Cooks (Aug 31, 2012)

Plus you can eat the meat when it's all done doing dairy, and you can make shoes out of the hide. Cows: multi-use animals.


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## Dawgluver (Aug 31, 2012)

There are nomadic tribes as I recall, in India and other parts, who burn well seasoned cow dung exclusively for cooking and heating.

Definitely multi-use!


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## CWS4322 (Aug 31, 2012)

I don't know that I could eat the beef---I can't eat my chickens! But I could burn the cow patties!


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## RPCookin (Sep 4, 2012)

How I wish any of you could live down here for a few months.  Not only are groceries expensive, but things that are commonplace in the US and Canada seem to be unheard of here.  I can't even find any dry mustard, believe it or not.  Invention and substitution is a way of life here.

I've literally taken a hand basket to the register and paid more than $80 for a couple of bags of stuff.  That's just normal, no drought, no shortages.  Is it any wonder that I'm becoming quite good at baking bread (tomorrow is Julia Child's French bread from "The Way to Cook")?  And rice (plain old white rice or pilaf, not basmati or arborio or whatever) is a regular part of our diet.  Except for ground chuck, beef is terribly expensive.  One grocer here has an in house butcher, so we do get some ok deals on chicken and pork.  Surprisingly, seafood isn't that cheap unless I catch it or spear it myself.  There is a bit of agriculture on the island, so we can often find good buys on whatever produce is in season.  Limes, bananas, plantains, onions, papaya, hot peppers are usually easy to come by at the right time of the year.

Even for water we are mostly dependent on what falls from the sky.  Tropical storm Isaac passed just close enough to top off our 12,000 gallon cistern, so we are good for a while now.  Living here has been a learning experience for us, but we wouldn't have it any other way.


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## CWS4322 (Oct 2, 2012)

I was watching an episode of Chefs A' Field on PBS. I learned something. It takes 3 years to raise a grass-fed steer vs. 18 months to raise one in a feed lot. Grass-fed steer will be smaller than a grain-fed one. And, the fat is "cleaner" in taste than grain-fed beef.

BTW, you can take mustard seeds and grind your own powdered mustard. If you only have one coffee mill, to clean it before using it for spices, put white rice in it and grind away. Do this again after you use it for spices. Easy way to clean it. I have two coffee mills for spices--one for "sweet" (cloves, cinnamon, etc.); the other for "hot" (chilis, mustard, etc.).


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## CWS4322 (Oct 2, 2012)

RPCookin said:


> How I wish any of you could live down here for a few months.  Not only are groceries expensive, but things that are commonplace in the US and Canada seem to be unheard of here.  I can't even find any dry mustard, believe it or not.  Invention and substitution is a way of life here.
> 
> I've literally taken a hand basket to the register and paid more than $80 for a couple of bags of stuff.  That's just normal, no drought, no shortages.  Is it any wonder that I'm becoming quite good at baking bread (tomorrow is Julia Child's French bread from "The Way to Cook")?  And rice (plain old white rice or pilaf, not basmati or arborio or whatever) is a regular part of our diet.  Except for ground chuck, beef is terribly expensive.  One grocer here has an in house butcher, so we do get some ok deals on chicken and pork.  Surprisingly, seafood isn't that cheap unless I catch it or spear it myself.  There is a bit of agriculture on the island, so we can often find good buys on whatever produce is in season.  Limes, bananas, plantains, onions, papaya, hot peppers are usually easy to come by at the right time of the year.
> 
> Even for water we are mostly dependent on what falls from the sky.  Tropical storm Isaac passed just close enough to top off our 12,000 gallon cistern, so we are good for a while now.  Living here has been a learning experience for us, but we wouldn't have it any other way.


I've been to the Bahamas several times and was shocked (the first time) by the food prices. Things I thought would be cheap (pineapple, coconuts) were not. Living on an island means most things others take for granted have to be shipped in. That is true also if one lives in the North. 

It makes sense to adjust what one eats to be what is locally available rather than buying things that have to be shipped in (what the locals eat). When I moved to the Maritimes as a grad student, I was dismayed that I could not buy tortillas (my go-to foods while in undergraduate school were Mexican--inexpensive, easy to prepare). I mastered making my own and have been doing so for years. But, I sure did like it when it was lobster season and lobsters were 99 cents/lb. And, the mussels and scallops were amazing. Growing up in the Midwest, I didn't eat a lot of seafood--lobster and shrimp were special treats. I hope you keep a few hens for fresh eggs <g>.


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## CWS4322 (Oct 2, 2012)

Gee--no wonder I can't grow pineapple here. It takes 20 months to grow pineapple--longer than it takes to fatten a steer for market in a feed-lot...


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## PrincessFiona60 (Oct 2, 2012)

CWS4322 said:


> Gee--no wonder I can't grow pineapple here. It takes 20 months to grow pineapple--longer than it takes to fatten a steer for market in a feed-lot...



I don't think they would be crazy about winter, too...


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## Addie (Oct 2, 2012)

RPCookin said:


> How I wish any of you could live down here for a few months. Not only are groceries expensive, but things that are commonplace in the US and Canada seem to be unheard of here. I can't even find any dry mustard, believe it or not. Invention and substitution is a way of life here.
> 
> I've literally taken a hand basket to the register and paid more than $80 for a couple of bags of stuff. That's just normal, no drought, no shortages. Is it any wonder that I'm becoming quite good at baking bread (tomorrow is Julia Child's French bread from "The Way to Cook")? And rice (plain old white rice or pilaf, not basmati or arborio or whatever) is a regular part of our diet. Except for ground chuck, beef is terribly expensive. One grocer here has an in house butcher, so we do get some ok deals on chicken and pork. Surprisingly, seafood isn't that cheap unless I catch it or spear it myself. There is a bit of agriculture on the island, so we can often find good buys on whatever produce is in season. Limes, bananas, plantains, onions, papaya, hot peppers are usually easy to come by at the right time of the year.
> 
> Even for water we are mostly dependent on what falls from the sky. Tropical storm Isaac passed just close enough to top off our 12,000 gallon cistern, so we are good for a while now. Living here has been a learning experience for us, but we wouldn't have it any other way.


 
Like our Hawaiian residents, everything has to be shipped in. Thus the cost of everything in Hawaii is twice what it costs on the mainland.


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## Addie (Oct 2, 2012)

CWS4322 said:


> I was watching an episode of Chefs A' Field on PBS. I learned something. It takes 3 years to raise a grass-fed steer vs. 18 months to raise one in a feed lot. Grass-fed steer will be smaller than a grain-fed one. And, the fat is "cleaner" in taste than grain-fed beef.
> 
> BTW, you can take mustard seeds and grind your own powdered mustard. If you only have one coffee mill, to clean it before using it for spices, put white rice in it and grind away. Do this again after you use it for spices. Easy way to clean it. I have two coffee mills for spices--one for "sweet" (cloves, cinnamon, etc.); the other for "hot" (chilis, mustard, etc.).


 
Hereford steer will eat scrub and other grasses that Black Angus will not eat. You don't come to grassy plains until you get out of the southwest. But the Herford do not fatten up on scrub. They originally came from Scotland and are not native to this land. They also were field cross bred with the long horn cattle from Mexico. By nature, the Black Angus is smaller than the Herford and are hornless. Put a BA bull beside a Hereford that both have been raised on grass alone and you will see the difference. Ranchers that raise only Black Angus are willing to take the time to raise their herds on grass alone. The meat is more tender and tastier. And that way they get more $$$ per pound for their product. BA also come from Scotland.


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## RPCookin (Oct 2, 2012)

Addie said:


> Hereford steer will eat scrub and other grasses that Black Angus will not eat. You don't come to grassy plains until you get out of the southwest. But the Herford do not fatten up on scrub. They originally came from Scotland and are not native to this land. They also were field cross bred with the long horn cattle from Mexico. By nature, the Black Angus is smaller than the Herford and are hornless. Put a BA bull beside a Hereford that both have been raised on grass alone and you will see the difference. Ranchers that raise only Black Angus are willing to take the time to raise their herds on grass alone. The meat is more tender and tastier. And that way they get more $$$ per pound for their product. BA also come from Scotland.



My wife is a farm girl from the northeastern Colorado plains.  We bought 95% of our beef on the hoof from a guy she grew up with.  It was pasture raised, fed on  natural feeds from the local Co-op (which was managed by his brother), on only given medications like antibiotics if actually needed (they cost money, so why not maximize profits while keeping the beef as organic as possible).  He takes the beef to a local meat locker, and we order it custom cut however we want it. The meat bought this way is so much more flavorful and tender that it can't even be compared to supermarket beef.  If there is anything I miss living here it's having access to that sort of red meat.  It may be more healthy, but I sure miss an occasional good rib steak or post roast.  

On the other hand, I can hit the ocean right in front of my house and find spiny lobster (they call then crayfish down here) or the occasional grouper (I'm still learning how to use a Hawaiian sling).


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## Greg Who Cooks (Oct 3, 2012)

CWS4322 said:


> I was watching an episode of Chefs A' Field on PBS. I learned something. It takes 3 years to raise a grass-fed steer vs. 18 months to raise one in a feed lot. Grass-fed steer will be smaller than a grain-fed one. And, the fat is "cleaner" in taste than grain-fed beef.


I hate to say it, but a lot more vegetable protein can be raised on a smaller acreage in a shorter time than raising cows. There's no justification of eating beef if you just look at the numbers.

Anybody for a nice tofurkey or tofsteak? No, I thought not. Maybe in 1,000 years our descendents will marvel at the ancient times when people ate real animals and died before they reached 250 years old...

I'm not going to quit eating steak no matter what. I just may not eat it as often. Actually I enjoy seafood more anyway. Seafood is lots more farmable....


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## CWS4322 (Oct 3, 2012)

The availability of locally farmed seafood is not possible in some areas. However, 1/2 mi down the road, I can get organic, grass-fed beef (1/2 or 1/4 or the whole steer). The farmer who owns the farm from which the property our City house was severed, raises grass-fed (pasture) lamb. There may be no justification for eating beef, but then, there is also no justification for eating Oreos, hotdogs, or Cheese Whiz. 

Responsible farmers are also custodians of the land. When looking at yield/acre, one also has to factor in the harvesting costs, equipment costs, market rate/bu., fertilization/irrigation costs, etc. So although the yield/acre may be higher, it is not always true that the rate of return/acre is worth planting a certain crop. Farmers look at the rate of return and the net return after all the expenses, including taxes, are factored in. Raising cattle may be more profitable in some areas than planting some sort of vegetable protein. Also, the soil composition, growing season, etc. may not support raising a vegetation crop, but the grass/scrub does support cattle or sheep. Farming is not that simple. The growing season may not be long enough for a vegetation crop that would potentially offer up a similar ROR. I have a great deal of respect for people who chose to be farmers. They have are often land rich but cash poor. It is not an easy life.


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## Addie (Oct 3, 2012)

I agree completely with you CWS. One weather disaster can mean financial ruin for the year. For those who raise animals, an early unexpected good blizzard can mean the loss of half their herd. For farmers that choose to grown veggies and other non animal items, an early frost will just wipe out the entire crop. 

I remember as a kid, listening to the radio every night starting in September. The first word of frost, we all climbed into the truck and headed for the bogs. We often were there until late at night flooding them. A successful flood meant that there would be a crop next year. The next day a lot desks at school were empty. You just knew they were doing the same thing you were doing late at night and were just too tired to get up and go to school. If you are a member of a farming family, everybody is a farmer in that family. the happiest time of my childhood was spent on the farm. It was hard work, but I loved it. I understood at a very early age, just how important all the work was.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Oct 3, 2012)

We are part of this world.  And as such, we interact with all other living, and non-living things.  If we eat anything, we are killing some type of life form, be it plant or animal.  That's just the way it is.  It is our responsibility to use the resources available to us in such a way that we improve that resource, so that it is available to our posterity.

Intensive grazing is one way to do that.  This livestock technique is patterned after Africa's great savannahs, that support the richest diversity of grazing, and predator life per acre, on the planet.  

With this type of farming, different grazing animals utilize the same pastures throughout the grazing season, with each animal grazing in its own pasture and eating something different from that pasture.  The animals are rotated at a regular schedule, each eating its own type of plants, or insects, or rodents, which is different for each critter.  In this way, weeds and insects are controlled, the soil is fertilized by each animal's unique droppings, and the none of the pastures are overgrazed.  There are fewer individual types of animals per acre, but as many total animals.  Typically, cattle, pigs, chickens, and goats or sheep are the animals that share the pastures.

Where this type of grazing is utilized, the animals are healthier, better tasting, and contribute to the quality of, rather than using up the available postural resources.  And because they are healthier, they need less anitbiotics, and such.  Only minerals need to be added to teh soil from time to time.  It's a sustainable farming method that is being utilized more and more.  And that's a good thing.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## taxlady (Oct 3, 2012)

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> We are part of this world.  And as such, we interact with all other living, and non-living things.  If we eat anything, we are killing some type of life form, be it plant or animal.  That's just the way it is.  It is our responsibility to use the resources available to us in such a way that we improve that resource, so that it is available to our posterity.
> 
> Intensive grazing is one way to do that.  This livestock technique is patterned after Africa's great savannahs, that support the richest diversity of grazing, and predator life per acre, on the planet.
> 
> ...


Thank you Chief. I was going to write something along those lines, but you did it well and saved me the effort.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Oct 3, 2012)

taxlady said:


> Thank you Chief. I was going to write something along those lines, but you did it well and saved me the effort.



My pleasure.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## CWS4322 (Oct 3, 2012)

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> We are part of this world.  And as such, we interact with all other living, and non-living things.  If we eat anything, we are killing some type of life form, be it plant or animal.  That's just the way it is.  It is our responsibility to use the resources available to us in such a way that we improve that resource, so that it is available to our posterity.
> 
> Intensive grazing is one way to do that.  This livestock technique is patterned after Africa's great savannahs, that support the richest diversity of grazing, and predator life per acre, on the planet.
> 
> ...


+1


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## Addie (Oct 3, 2012)

Greg as the widow of a commercial fisherman, I love seafood. But they are finding that those seafood farms are developing some major problems. They are more prone to disease, do not grow as big as wild ones., etc. And these problems go across the board. Whether it be catfish, oysters, clams, salmon, etc. When you take an animal out of the wild and try to get it to change according to your needs, you are just preparing for disaster. 

Farmers know this. They do try to get a bigger yield from their plantings. And when the big coops change the DNA of crops, they are just making them more susceptible to disease and more attractive to bugs and other critters. The small farmer like CWS and her husband are caught in a bind. They have no choice but to buy the seeds from these altered plants. Thus all the problems are hoisted on them. Small farmers try not to use pesticides. But sometimes it is their only means to get a crop at all. Just look at what we have done to corn. When you look at the cobs found in old Native American sites, they are tiny. But there is no mold on them. And little critters didn't find them to be a banquet. Now the bigger the better. When we go shopping, we always pick out the big ones. More for our money. I would rather have a small tender one. They are sweeter and have more corn milk in them. That is where all the flavor is.


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## CWS4322 (Oct 3, 2012)

Addie said:


> Greg as the widow of a commercial fisherman, I love seafood. But they are finding that those seafood farms are developing some major problems. They are more prone to disease, do not grow as big as wild ones., etc. And these problems go across the board. Whether it be catfish, oysters, clams, salmon, etc. When you take an animal out of the wild and try to get it to change according to your needs, you are just preparing for disaster.
> 
> Farmers know this. They do try to get a bigger yield from their plantings. And when the big coops change the DNA of crops, they are just making them more susceptible to disease and more attractive to bugs and other critters. The small farmer like CWS and her husband are caught in a bind. They have no choice but to buy the seeds from these altered plants. Thus all the problems are hoisted on them. Small farmers try not to use pesticides. But sometimes it is their only means to get a crop at all. Just look at what we have done to corn. When you look at the cobs found in old Native American sites, they are tiny. But there is no mold on them. And little critters didn't find them to be a banquet. Now the bigger the better. When we go shopping, we always pick out the big ones. More for our money. I would rather have a small tender one. They are sweeter and have more corn milk in them. That is where all the flavor is.


Thanks, Addie. Our farm is for our consumption only, but it is a farm and requires a lot of work. We don't use pesticides. We had to irrigate this year and still lost stuff. The rain (now we get rain!) is making it hard to get the winter wheat planted to restore the nutrient balance in the field that we left fallow this summer. We'd like to plant sunflowers in it next summer (the deer don't bother sunflowers--and we can supplement the hens' feed with sunflowers). But, it would help if we could get the winter wheat planted because we had corn in that field 2 summers ago. We are investigating growing quinoa...it might grow here if we don't have too many days over 90 degrees in the summer. My brother and I disagree on this self-sustainability thing--"it's easier to go to the store and buy your groceries." Easier, yes, but we don't just grow what we eat during the summer, we feed the dogs ground veggies and feed ourselves.


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## Skittle68 (Oct 12, 2012)

Chief Longwind Of The North said:
			
		

> We are part of this world.  And as such, we interact with all other living, and non-living things.  If we eat anything, we are killing some type of life form, be it plant or animal.  That's just the way it is.  It is our responsibility to use the resources available to us in such a way that we improve that resource, so that it is available to our posterity.
> 
> Intensive grazing is one way to do that.  This livestock technique is patterned after Africa's great savannahs, that support the richest diversity of grazing, and predator life per acre, on the planet.
> 
> ...



+1

I've been thinking along these lines for awhile, but this is much more organized and well written than what would have come from my general ideas. I used to work at a group home that had cattle, an we rotated them between 4 pastures. All you had to do was open the gate, and they went through. That's where all the fresh grass was!! So it required almost no effort, we didn't have to buy hay or grain, so there were no fossil fuels being used, and no 3rd party being paid for harvesting.  They were not standing in a foot of their own waste like at factory farms, so they were naturally healthy, and there was no run off going into local rivers and streams. Doesn't this just sound better??


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## CWS4322 (Oct 12, 2012)

Skittle68 said:


> +1
> 
> I've been thinking along these lines for awhile, but this is much more organized and well written than what would have come from my general ideas. I used to work at a group home that had cattle, an we rotated them between 4 pastures. All you had to do was open the gate, and they went through. That's where all the fresh grass was!! So it required almost no effort, we didn't have to buy hay or grain, so there were no fossil fuels being used, and no 3rd party being paid for harvesting.  They were not standing in a foot of their own waste like at factory farms, so they were naturally healthy, and there was no run off going into local rivers and streams. Doesn't this just sound better??


+1

In the US, people spend approx. 6% of their income on food; in Canada it is 9%. In other countries it is as high as 46%. Think about it.


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## Skittle68 (Oct 12, 2012)

CWS4322 said:
			
		

> +1
> 
> In the US, people spend approx. 6% of their income on food; in Canada it is 9%. In other countries it is as high as 46%. Think about it.



That statistic isn't completely accurate, because money is taken out of our income and used to subsidize farms, so we think food is cheap, but it actually isn't. That number is probably quite a bit higher if you take into account our tax money that is spent on subsidies.


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## Addie (Oct 12, 2012)

I don't care what they are paying our farmers for subsidies. Every cent is well worth it. It all comes back to me with high quality food. 

Having lived on a farm as a kid, I know how hard farmers work. Last night we had a frost warning. That meant those on our South Shore and the Cape, had to leave the warmth of their homes and get the cranberry bogs flooded in order to save them. The whole family was probably there until way past midnight. And then they got up this morning and went off to school or work. When they get home tonight, they still have farm work to do. So next Thanksgiving, you will have cranberry sauce on your table. 

Most small farmers have a second job other than the farm. And if the wife doesn't work outside the home, she is probably doing the outside chores that her husband does when he is home. And I am not referring to mowing the lawn. So in a sense, she has two jobs also. Farm chores and taking care of her family and home.


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## CWS4322 (Oct 12, 2012)

Skittle68 said:


> That statistic isn't completely accurate, because money is taken out of our income and used to subsidize farms, so we think food is cheap, but it actually isn't. That number is probably quite a bit higher if you take into account our tax money that is spent on subsidies.


The US has some of the lowest personal income tax rates in the Western world. The taxes taken off a paycheck that goes to subsidize farming is small a portion of where one's tax dollar is spent. For example, in Ontario, 46% of every dollar one pays for taxes goes for health care. That doesn't leave a lot for all the other programs--security, infrastructure, disability subsidies, etc. The farmers in Ontario are receiving donated hay from western provinces. This hay is being shipped east thanks to donations from the public, not as a "government" subsidized program.

Skittle--did you get the little cookbook I sent your way?


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## Greg Who Cooks (Oct 12, 2012)

Skittle68 said:


> That statistic isn't completely accurate, because money is taken out of our income and used to subsidize farms, so we think food is cheap, but it actually isn't. That number is probably quite a bit higher if you take into account our tax money that is spent on subsidies.



There's also the fact that if you make $4,000 a year you'll spend a huge amount of your income on food, compared to people who make $50,000 or $100,000 a year (even though they eat more expensive food). That explain's a large part of the third world vs. first world percent of income spent on food statistic.


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## Skittle68 (Oct 13, 2012)

Addie, I completely agree that they deserve every penny. However, I do wish they would put more of the money into fruits and veggies instead of corn, meat, and dairy. 

CWS- yes I got the cookbook! Thank you!! I've looked through it, and I can't wait to try a few of the recipes when I get time.

And Greg, that is a good point too! I'm sure I spend a huge percentage of my money of food compared to someone in the top 1%. The register at the grocery store makes me cringe every time.


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## Addie (Oct 13, 2012)

Skittle68 said:


> Addie, I completely agree that they deserve every penny. However, I do wish they would put more of the money into fruits and veggies instead of corn, meat, and dairy.
> 
> CWS- yes I got the cookbook! Thank you!! I've looked through it, and I can't wait to try a few of the recipes when I get time.
> 
> And Greg, that is a good point too! I'm sure I spend a huge percentage of my money of food compared to someone in the top 1%. The register at the grocery store makes me cringe every time.


 
Corn is used in so many ways, Fuel, animal feed, etc. Let the companies that depend on the corn for their business be the ones to subsidize the corn farmer. Vermont at one time had more cows than people. Now those farms no longer have barns on the land. Only condos for folks who want to experience the country life. Next it was Wisconsin and the same thing happened. Now it is California.


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