# Hi and help with beans



## jeterlover (Dec 2, 2006)

I am trying to find out if there is a solution to my chili beans.  I soaked pinto beans over night, they have been cooking for 5 hours and are still hard as a rock.  Is there any help in sight?  I don't cook very well.  I am trying to find easy recipes so I can get away from the "Hamburger helper" scene.  Someone please help.
Thanks,
jeterlover


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## pdswife (Dec 2, 2006)

Welcome to the group!
Are your beans really old?  I've heard that older beans take much longer to soften and I'm afraid at this point...you might have to start over.

Someone with more bean know how will come along shortly and give you a better answer.


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## KAYLINDA (Dec 2, 2006)

I've heard if you salt them while cooking they won't soften...but don't know if this is true.


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## LeisuresKitchen (Dec 2, 2006)

I'm new but I heard if you live at high altitudes this can affect your beans staying hard after boiling for long periods of time. But i'm not 100% sure 
I heard pressure cookers are great for cooking beans as well.  Good luck!


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## Andy M. (Dec 2, 2006)

Welcome aboard!

Old beans will never soften.  Also, adding acidic ingredients such as tomato to the beans early in the cooking will make them tough.


Please tell me you don't mean Derek Jeter, do you?


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## auntdot (Dec 3, 2006)

Jeter, I learned this lesson the hard way also.

And Andy is, as always, correct.

Looked into it after I had tossed a bunch of dried beans, from the pantry from who knows when, into water and boiled them.

And boiled them, and boiled them.

Apparently the pores, holes, whatever they are called, in the outside of the beans that will let water into the center close up as the dried beans sit about.  And so your beans are fully cooked, yes, but there is no water in them, and so they are just tough cooked dried beans.

If there is any way to resurrect them, I do not know of it.

Would just deep six them and buy some more.

Sorry.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Dec 3, 2006)

I'm a big fan of Andy for a very good reason.  He knows what he's talking about.  One additional comment; salt added to the cooking water does not inhibit the softening of the beans.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Shunka (Dec 3, 2006)

LeisuresKitchen said:
			
		

> I'm new but I heard if you live at high altitudes this can affect your beans staying hard after boiling for long periods of time. But i'm not 100% sure
> I heard pressure cookers are great for cooking beans as well. Good luck!


 This statement is true about high altitudes; that is why I use a pressure cooker (I live at a mile in elevation and have lived at 7200 ft). I use old beans to make bean bag toys for my grandkids, they aren't good for anything else, lol. Andy is sooo right on this subject!!


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## boufa06 (Dec 3, 2006)

Hi, welcome to the DC family.  As for your bean problem, it seems that your beans are either very old or have grown on unsuitable ground.  In either case, the better solution would be to throw them away and buy some new ones hoping that they may be a fresh crop.  

You will probably hear that soaking them with some sodium bicarbonate may soften them but I don't think it's worth it.  In my experience, beans that did not boil well remain so no matter how or what I tried.  Meanwhile, beans of the latest crop most of the time boil well from the start without the need to resort to additives to get the job done.


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## StirBlue (Dec 3, 2006)

Whatever you may have heard, beans do not last fifteen years in food storage.  I have cooked some beans from about 2000 and they cooked to hulls because they were old.  In Utah, people have been known to inherit a food storage that is over 50 years old. "Old food, is No food!"


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## Alix (Dec 3, 2006)

OK, major gross out on the 50 year old food there StirBlue. I knew about the old beans bit, but I didn't know about the higher elevation thing! *forehead slap* THAT explains a lot for me. Sigh. Going to toss out that bag of beans in my pantry.


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## FraidKnot (Dec 4, 2006)

Maybe I missed it but I didn't notice anyone mentioning beans need to be presoaked.  You shouldn't just throw dried beans in a pot and expect them to cook up nice and tender.  I do the 10 minute "quick soak" most of the time, but if I'm planning ahead I soak them overnight.

Fraidy


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## AllenOK (Dec 4, 2006)

StirBlue said:
			
		

> In Utah, people have been known to inherit a food storage that is over 50 years old. "Old food, is No food!"



Don't remind me.  When my MIL moved in with use last year, she wanted all her cooking stuff over.  Needless to say, I pitched a lot of her seasonings, as they were just way to old, like 20 years old.  The herbs had lost color, and had no flavor, but she insisted on using them.


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## kitchenelf (Dec 4, 2006)

Like everyone said they were probably old.  I always throw mine in the pressure cooker and cook a tad longer to take care of the pre-soak Fraidy is talking about.  To do a quick pre-soak just bring your beans to a boil, turn off heat, cover, and let sit for 1 hour.  Then start from there.


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## YT2095 (Dec 4, 2006)

I know there`s a method used for Maise and such things that involves them being boiled in a Hydroxide, often Calcium hydroxide or even Potassium hydroxide from ashes.
it might be interesting from an experimental point of veiw to keep a few of these beans back and try it on them 

yes even Sodium Hydroxide (Lye) has been used also in the food industry.

if you DO decide to have a go with this, then PLEASE do NOT use ANY aluminium cookware! it will destroy it.


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## StirBlue (Dec 4, 2006)

YT...What isle did you find that stuff on?  We're gonna have to keep an eye on you before you start posting turtle wax recipes.  I have a suspicion that you have cooked a turtle.  If you were not unique, I wouldn't poke fun at you...love your post.


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## Aurora (Dec 4, 2006)

Here's a site that will give you some ideas for your old beans:

http://www.homemakingcottage.com/home/11_things_pinto.htm


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## boufa06 (Dec 4, 2006)

YT2095 said:
			
		

> I know there`s a method used for Maise and such things that involves them being boiled in a Hydroxide, often Calcium hydroxide or even Potassium hydroxide from ashes.
> it might be interesting from an experimental point of veiw to keep a few of these beans back and try it on them
> 
> yes even Sodium Hydroxide (Lye) has been used also in the food industry.
> ...


 While it's true that bases will cause breakdown and therefore softening of food, it may prove somewhat dangerous to do.  Strong bases such as sodum hydroxide would be dangerous if used beyond a certain amount.  The amount the human body can tolerate is very small.  Weaker bases such as calcium hydroxide (lime water) may be marginally safer but still dangerous.  In addition, calcium hydroxide will give an unpleasant taste to the food.  It is better to experiment with very weak bases which pose a much lower health risk. But is saving some old beans worth all this trouble? Finally, please bear in mind that breaking food down through the action of a base is the process that is foreign to the human body which breaks down food by the action of acid (hydrochloric acid produced in the stomach).


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## skilletlicker (Dec 4, 2006)

boufa06 said:
			
		

> While it's true that bases will cause breakdown and therefore softening of food, it may prove somewhat dangerous to do.  Strong bases such as sodum hydroxide would be dangerous if used beyond a certain amount.  The amount the human body can tolerate is very small.  Weaker bases such as calcium hydroxide (lime water) may be marginally safer but still dangerous.  In addition, calcium hydroxide will give an unpleasant taste to the food.  It is better to experiment with very weak bases which pose a much lower health risk. But is saving some old beans worth all this trouble? Finally, please bear in mind that breaking food down through the action of a base is the process that is foreign to the human body which breaks down food by the action of acid (hydrochloric acid produced in the stomach).


 I use calcium hydroxide to soak corn making nixtamal, something like hominy, which is then ground into a corn masa for tortillas or tamales.  the trick is to rinse very well afterward.  Actually you not only rinse it but also rub the outer hull off the kernel.  I've never heard of adding it to beans.  If you were going to do something like that it might be better to use baking soda instead but I wouldn't even suggest that.


			
				jeterlover said:
			
		

> I am trying to find out if there is a solution to my chili beans. I soaked pinto beans over night, they have been cooking for 5 hours and are still hard as a rock. Is there any help in sight? I don't cook very well. I am trying to find easy recipes so I can get away from the "Hamburger helper" scene. Someone please help.
> Thanks,
> jeterlover


 I cook beans two or three times a week and maybe I've just been lucky but have never experienced them staying hard as a rock after soaking, then simmering five hours, even if they'd been in the cupboard for years (never 15 years though).  If you only had a pound to start with I'd suggest tossing them and getting some new but you if you've got 50 lb. bags the pressure cooker route might be worth a try.
I commend your escape from hamburger helper.  Please let us know how it's working out.


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## YT2095 (Dec 5, 2006)

there we go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominy
I knew I wasn`t Trippin`  

"Nixtamal" might be another usefull search word to plug into google also.


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## Gretchen (Dec 5, 2006)

FraidKnot said:
			
		

> Maybe I missed it but I didn't notice anyone mentioning beans need to be presoaked. You shouldn't just throw dried beans in a pot and expect them to cook up nice and tender. I do the 10 minute "quick soak" most of the time, but if I'm planning ahead I soak them overnight.
> 
> Fraidy


 
While the quick soak or overnight soak will shorten the cooking time, beans will eventually cook. The presoaks just shorten the time.
Salt does not affect the cooking except for flavor--it is better to salt while cooking so the salt is incorporated into the bean.
Age does matter as many have mentioned. Buy your beans where there is a turnover of product.
AND I love my pressure cooker for beans!!!!


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## petey (Jan 17, 2007)

Gretchen said:
			
		

> While the quick soak or overnight soak will shorten the cooking time, beans will eventually cook. The presoaks just shorten the time.
> Salt does not affect the cooking except for flavor--it is better to salt while cooking so the salt is incorporated into the bean.
> Age does matter as many have mentioned. Buy your beans where there is a turnover of product.
> AND I love my pressure cooker for beans!!!!



A pressure cooker is a must for beans. Ask anyone living south of Texas and they'll tell you "Use a presssure cooker" . Every house in latin america has a pressure cooker for beans. You can get one for about $25 and they last a life time. Forget about pre-soaking and all of the science projects. With a pressure cooker the beans go from the bag to the pot and cook completely withing 30 - 40 minutes depending.

I make a fresh pot of black beans about 2 times per month. Good stuff!!!!


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## Robo410 (Jan 17, 2007)

oh ya, made crispy bean soup once...old buggers...never again.  a fresh bag each recipe...and yes, old beans from the pantry get used for blind baking (pie weights).

I have never presure cooked old beans...does it help??


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## petey (Jan 17, 2007)

Robo410 said:
			
		

> oh ya, made crispy bean soup once...old buggers...never again.  a fresh bag each recipe...and yes, old beans from the pantry get used for blind baking (pie weights).
> 
> I have never presure cooked old beans...does it help??



Well, i dont really know how to determin how old beans are. They dont sit in my house long enough to get old i guess. I somehow think that a pressure cooker will cook them completely no matter how old they are.


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## jennyema (Jan 18, 2007)

petey said:
			
		

> Well, i dont really know how to determin how old beans are. They dont sit in my house long enough to get old i guess. I somehow think that a pressure cooker will cook them completely no matter how old they are.


 
Not even a pressure cooker will properly soften _really_ old beans.


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## jeterlover (Jan 20, 2007)

*Dried beans*

Thank you everyone for all of your input about my chili bean dilemma.  Needless to say I finally threw those beans out.  I bought some new ones, boiled them for an hour, threw them in the crock pot and made the best chili I have made in years.   I will be back soon.
Jeterlover


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## petey (Jan 20, 2007)

jeterlover said:
			
		

> Thank you everyone for all of your input about my chili bean dilemma.  Needless to say I finally threw those beans out.  I bought some new ones, boiled them for an hour, threw them in the crock pot and made the best chili I have made in years.   I will be back soon.
> Jeterlover




Glad you cooking experience was a success


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## Candocook (Jan 20, 2007)

I cooked some cannellini the other day that were just delicious. And I had had them for a LONG time. I even overcooked a bit, unfortunately--30 minutes. 
 It is almost impossible to tell if beans are old or not--the advice is to buy beans where there is a large turnover is probably best.


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## karadekoolaid (Jan 20, 2007)

It's pretty obvious from all the other posts and the fact that your beans didn't cook after 5 hours... I'm surprised no-one's pointed it out. 

You had "Has-Beans"!


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## yankeefaninseattle (Feb 8, 2007)

Learned that one the hard way too, jeterlover (can't stand that boy). I cooked some that were near that no softening point, but was lucky enough that they had consistency to the bean, rather than like rocks. I think the age of the bean does have a lot to do with it.
Keep on trying, though, they are versatile, good to freeze, and better if they are red w/ some rice over cornbread.
B.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Feb 8, 2007)

boufa06 said:
			
		

> While it's true that bases will cause breakdown and therefore softening of food, it may prove somewhat dangerous to do. Strong bases such as sodum hydroxide would be dangerous if used beyond a certain amount. The amount the human body can tolerate is very small. Weaker bases such as calcium hydroxide (lime water) may be marginally safer but still dangerous. In addition, calcium hydroxide will give an unpleasant taste to the food. It is better to experiment with very weak bases which pose a much lower health risk. But is saving some old beans worth all this trouble? Finally, please bear in mind that breaking food down through the action of a base is the process that is foreign to the human body which breaks down food by the action of acid (hydrochloric acid produced in the stomach).


 
Actually, the acid in hte stomach merely starts a part of the digestion process.  Foods are actually broken down in the small intestine by bile salts, which are strong bases (alkalyes).  The bile release is triggered by the acidic food entering the douodenum, if I recall correctly.  The sugars, starches, and fats are then broken down into digestible materials that can be absorbed into the bloodstream.  

Think of Dawn dishwashing liquid and what it does to grease.  It is a very effective base.  And also notice that most drain cleaners, and oven cleaners are positive PH as well.  They break down the foods and make them easier to get off of surfaces.

But still, strong bases are very caustic and will quickly destroy body tissues if gotten into the wrong areas of the body.  But YT is correct in that there are food products that have been treated with such things as lye to make them pallatable.  The first example I can think of is hominy.  Hominy is a tough corn that is inedible until treated with lye to soten the hulls.  I believe that pretzels are also treated with a base.  Baking soda, though not as strong as many alkalies, is still a base and reactes fairly violently with acids.

Foods that are treated with alkalies are then rinsed to remove them from the food.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## skilletlicker (Feb 8, 2007)

Goodweed of the North said:
			
		

> ...
> But still, strong bases are very caustic and will quickly destroy body tissues if gotten into the wrong areas of the body.  But YT is correct in that there are food products that have been treated with such things as lye to make them pallatable.  The first example I can think of is hominy.  Hominy is a tough corn that is inedible until treated with lye to soten the hulls.  I believe that pretzels are also treated with a base.  Baking soda, though not as strong as many alkalies, is still a base and reactes fairly violently with acids.
> ...


 Well Goodweed, the tough corn that hominy is made from is not necessarily different than the corn from which your polenta or corn meal is milled, hulls and all.  Furthermore, although I can't say for certain why folks started treating maize with alkali 3 or 4 thousand years ago, ordinary ashes were originally used, I bet they kept it up, in part at least, because the ones that didn't died young. That was an unfortunate fate shared by no small number of Europeans and Africans who tried to live off the maize the conquistadors sent back with the plunder.  Had the primary motivation been to make their staple grain more palatable, why did the folks from the old world resist?

Of course, I'm no expert and would appreciate corrections of any misunderstandings.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Feb 9, 2007)

skilletlicker said:
			
		

> Well Goodweed, the tough corn that hominy is made from is not necessarily different than the corn from which your polenta or corn meal is milled, hulls and all. Furthermore, although I can't say for certain why folks started treating maize with alkali 3 or 4 thousand years ago, ordinary ashes were originally used, I bet they kept it up, in part at least, because the ones that didn't died young. That was an unfortunate fate shared by no small number of Europeans and Africans who tried to live off the maize the conquistadors sent back with the plunder. Had the primary motivation been to make their staple grain more palatable, why did the folks from the old world resist?
> 
> Of course, I'm no expert and would appreciate corrections of any misunderstandings.


 
I don't know the history of using alkalyes to help process foods.  I know much more about the body and its processes.  I just know that the substances were used to process corn (maize).  So, I can't really engage in any meaningful discussion on the topic.  I did, however, want to set the record straight when I read Boufa's post about stomach acids digesting food.  That's all my freinds. 

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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