# A more specific question



## The cooker man

So in my new meme post, I asked a general question about issues people had with their kitchen appliance, some people saido this may have been too vague a question,  so I wanted to ask a more specific one.

A new thing which some manufacturers are trying to introduce is easy clean ovens, what's people's general thoughts on this?

Thanks again 

TCM


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## Andy M.

Not sure what you mean by easy clean.  I've had a self-cleaning oven for 40-50 years (not the same one).


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## PrincessFiona60

Andy, my new one has an easy clean feature.  Basically you spray the interior with water and allow it to steam clean.  Only works on small messes.  Something I had figured out already, I did not buy this stove for the easy clean feature.


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## The cooker man

Andy M. said:


> Not sure what you mean by easy clean.  I've had a self-cleaning oven for 40-50 years (not the same one).



Is there a punch line coming there? ?


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## The cooker man

Would you say it's a good feature though,  something worth having?


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## PrincessFiona60

It's not a feature...it's something added on that tries to make people think they need it.  Basically, they gave me a spray bottle to fill with water and spray on myself, then clean as I normally would.  No separate buttons or other controls for it.


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## Andy M.

The cooker man said:


> Is there a punch line coming there? ?



No punch line.  I didn't know what easy clean was so I was asking. Is the interior of the oven coated or a different surface from the normal porcelain?


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## roadfix

Is the interior coated with teflon or something ??   I'm assuming "easy cleaning" is different from the traditional "self-cleaning".


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## Zagut

The cooker man said:


> A new thing which some manufacturers are trying to introduce is easy clean ovens, what's people's general thoughts on this?
> 
> TCM


 

I'm also wondering what the difference is between Easy Clean and Self Cleaning?

Nothing self cleans as you need to finish the job but it makes it easier in the long run.

How much easier does this new "trend/marketing ploy." make life easier?

Do I just toss the whole oven in the washer or hook it up to the vacuum cleaner? 

I'll need to know how it works before I can decide if it's worth spending my money on it over what I already know how and why it works.


But this thread has made me think that my self cleaning oven needs to be cleaned and the temps are going down to 20 degrees tonight so I might as well go for it to help in the heating costs a tiny bit.


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## The cooker man

Andy M. said:


> No punch line.  I didn't know what easy clean was so I was asking. Is the interior of the oven coated or a different surface from the normal porcelain?



I just meant the bit about having a self clean 1 for 40 - 50 years, I didn't know they had been out that long, is it a feature worth having? 

Yes, the easy clean is just a coating which makes it easier to clean, it's a nano coating


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## The cooker man

PrincessFiona60 said:


> Andy, my new one has an easy clean feature.  Basically you spray the interior with water and allow it to steam clean.  Only works on small messes.  Something I had figured out already, I did not buy this stove for the easy clean feature.



Oh ok, So a bit more of a gimmick than a worth while feature then would you say?


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## roadfix

Is that the same stuff they put on automobiles to protect the finish?


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## Andy M.

The cooker man said:


> I just meant the bit about having a self clean 1 for 40 - 50 years, I didn't know they had been out that long, is it a feature worth having?...




Self-cleaning ovens were introduced in 1963.

Absolutely worth having!  When you consider the alternative is to get down on your knees and apply, then remove, thick coats of hazardous chemicals that cause you to cough and gasp for air, just flipping a switch is heavenly.


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## GotGarlic

Andy M. said:


> Self-cleaning ovens were introduced in 1963.
> 
> Absolutely worth having!  When you consider the alternative is to get down on your knees and apply, then remove, thick coats of hazardous chemicals that cause you to cough and gasp for air, just flipping a switch is heavenly.



+1!
...


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## erehweslefox

I prefer to have an oven with a self-cleaning setting. Basically, as I understand how it works, it has been about since the sixties and just runs the oven at a very high temperature and pulverizes everything to ash. Most ovens with a self-clean also have a locking feature, as they have to cool down slowly otherwise you will crack the steel on on the oven. 

I will say EVERY TIME I have used this I am nervous, it takes several hours, and I wouldn't use it in an unattended apartment. I watch it like a hawk, take everything out of the boiler plate drawer below, clean as much out as I can first etc... 

However, it is better than getting in there with steel wool, rubber gloves and oven cleaner. It is not a cure all.

So Cooker Man? OK you mention nano, which is cool, and a new technology, I'd want to know how it works, why, and what the limits are. One of the reasons? Darn Teflon.

This was supposed to be THE miracle material, nothing stuck to it. Now I'd say it is sprayed a lot on lower quality aluminium pans. I haven't had ANY teflon pan that can get close to the non-stick of my lodge cast iron pan. Now mine is well seasoned, but there is a hydrophobic coating on that from interactions of iron, hydrocarbons, and water at high heat that makes a teflon pan look like garbage, and the teflon scratches, you can't use a metal spatula, it sublimes, and gets into your food. Have you ever seen a twenty year old teflon pan? 

So a nano coating? OK would it wear off, would it sublime into the thing being cooked, nano is small, it is a thin coating, if it is damaged in part, would it be damaged in whole? What is the base on, aluminum? heats up quick but has hot spots, and is uneven, copper? corrodes with acid based sauces, iron? why not use cast iron, titanium? great can we afford it? Stainless steel, a good middle ground, they call it stainless because it is tough to get things to react to it, can you get a nano coating to stick? 

I mainly use cast iron lodge products, I have a carbon steel wok, which was a pain in the arse to get conditioned, but now is performing well. I use all clad aluminium sauce pans, they are solidly constructed to give a good heat profile. I have a couple enameled pieces that I use in the oven. My perfect pan on gas and electric burner is a seasoned lodge cast iron pan. The only reason these aren't used in restaurants regular is that they have a curve, it takes a while for them to get to temperature, and a while for them to cool off as they retain heat. While this is a benefit for a home cook, a restaurant line wants timely control over temperature, so they go to stainless or aluminim.

I think if we are talking a coating, my main thing is durability. It might be the best thing ever for 10 uses, but pans get used. Scraped with spatulas, heated up to 450 and quickly cooled to room temperature. That was the problem with Teflon coatings, they gave a slight better than a poorly seasoned cast iron or carbon steel skillet, but the coating would degrade rapidly under heavy use. 

I gave up the last of my teflon coated 'non-stick' pots and pans in my last move. Stopped using them, they were all jacked up, and I am in the process of trying to replace all my plastic spatulas, spoons, etc, which all are burned and melted a bit, with decent alternatives for decent pots and pans. 

Things sticking to the pan are more often technique than materiel. My lodge 12" skillet is so seasoned right now, I could dump a cup of distilled water on it, shake it thrice, and it would be dry enough I could run a kleenex over it and it would be dry. A good seasoned cast iron is quite hydrophobic.


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## The cooker man

erehweslefox said:


> I prefer to have an oven with a self-cleaning setting. Basically, as I understand how it works, it has been about since the sixties and just runs the oven at a very high temperature and pulverizes everything to ash. Most ovens with a self-clean also have a locking feature, as they have to cool down slowly otherwise you will crack the steel on on the oven.
> 
> I will say EVERY TIME I have used this I am nervous, it takes several hours, and I wouldn't use it in an unattended apartment. I watch it like a hawk, take everything out of the boiler plate drawer below, clean as much out as I can first etc...
> 
> However, it is better than getting in there with steel wool, rubber gloves and oven cleaner. It is not a cure all.
> 
> So Cooker Man? OK you mention nano, which is cool, and a new technology, I'd want to know how it works, why, and what the limits are. One of the reasons? Darn Teflon.
> 
> This was supposed to be THE miracle material, nothing stuck to it. Now I'd say it is sprayed a lot on lower quality aluminium pans. I haven't had ANY teflon pan that can get close to the non-stick of my lodge cast iron pan. Now mine is well seasoned, but there is a hydrophobic coating on that from interactions of iron, hydrocarbons, and water at high heat that makes a teflon pan look like garbage, and the teflon scratches, you can't use a metal spatula, it sublimes, and gets into your food. Have you ever seen a twenty year old teflon pan?
> 
> So a nano coating? OK would it wear off, would it sublime into the thing being cooked, nano is small, it is a thin coating, if it is damaged in part, would it be damaged in whole? What is the base on, aluminum? heats up quick but has hot spots, and is uneven, copper? corrodes with acid based sauces, iron? why not use cast iron, titanium? great can we afford it? Stainless steel, a good middle ground, they call it stainless because it is tough to get things to react to it, can you get a nano coating to stick?
> 
> I mainly use cast iron lodge products, I have a carbon steel wok, which was a pain in the arse to get conditioned, but now is performing well. I use all clad aluminium sauce pans, they are solidly constructed to give a good heat profile. I have a couple enameled pieces that I use in the oven. My perfect pan on gas and electric burner is a seasoned lodge cast iron pan. The only reason these aren't used in restaurants regular is that they have a curve, it takes a while for them to get to temperature, and a while for them to cool off as they retain heat. While this is a benefit for a home cook, a restaurant line wants timely control over temperature, so they go to stainless or aluminim.
> 
> I think if we are talking a coating, my main thing is durability. It might be the best thing ever for 10 uses, but pans get used. Scraped with spatulas, heated up to 450 and quickly cooled to room temperature. That was the problem with Teflon coatings, they gave a slight better than a poorly seasoned cast iron or carbon steel skillet, but the coating would degrade rapidly under heavy use.
> 
> I gave up the last of my teflon coated 'non-stick' pots and pans in my last move. Stopped using them, they were all jacked up, and I am in the process of trying to replace all my plastic spatulas, spoons, etc, which all are burned and melted a bit, with decent alternatives for decent pots and pans.
> 
> Things sticking to the pan are more often technique than materiel. My lodge 12" skillet is so seasoned right now, I could dump a cup of distilled water on it, shake it thrice, and it would be dry enough I could run a kleenex over it and it would be dry. A good seasoned cast iron is quite hydrophobic.



Thank you for your indepth reply,  I will respond fully soon, just wanted to send a quick reply so as not to be rude.


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## roadfix

The self-cleaning setting is great for making pizza.


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## Dawgluver

roadfix said:


> The self-cleaning setting is great for making pizza.




Hm.  I would have never thought of that, but you're right.  Doesn't it get up to around 500°?  Sort of like a woodburning oven.


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## Andy M.

roadfix said:


> The self-cleaning setting is great for making pizza.





Dawgluver said:


> Hm.  I would have never thought of that, but you're right.  Doesn't it get up to around 500°?  Sort of like a woodburning oven.



NO!

The self-cleaning cycle raises the temperature to 900ºF and locks the oven door shut until the temperature drops to a safe level (around 500ºF).  You'd have to put the pizza in before the oven heated up to 900º then leave it in there until it cooled down.  I think the pizza would be ash by then and your entire home would be filled with smoke.

...but that's just my opinion.


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## Dawgluver

Andy M. said:


> NO!
> 
> 
> 
> The self-cleaning cycle raises the temperature to 900ºF and locks the oven door shut until the temperature drops to a safe level (around 500ºF).  You'd have to put the pizza in before the oven heated up to 900º then leave it in there until it cooled down.  I think the pizza would be ash by then and your entire home would be filled with smoke.
> 
> 
> 
> ...but that's just my opinion.




OK, backpedaling.  It is probably NOT a good idea then.


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## Zagut

Not a good idea at all from a safety aspect but there are people who have defeated the lock on the self clean cycle so they can get the high temp and place into after preheat and retrieve there pizza before it turns to ash. 

Some pizza's cooked at high temps are very desirable and I would like my oven to go above 500 degrees at times. Pizza time is one of them. 

But that's something The Cooker Man could look into. 

A safe for home use high temp oven.
I'm sure insulation and more insulation would be required to meet .gov regulations.
No bells and whistles needed. Just a simple oven to reach higher temps that won't burn the house down.


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## roadfix

Yes, I was going to mention about defeating the safety lock feature....


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## roadfix

They should just come up with Angry Mamas for conventional ovens....


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## erehweslefox

Self-cleaning kind of scares me, given even how hot the top of the oven gets. I would think very carefully before disabling any safety features. 

Want a high temperature oven, get some bricks and build a temporary wood fire oven, done that. 

My pizza seems to get by with a stone, generally preheat it hot, and then back the oven down to 350 or so. crisps the crust from radiant heat and leaves my toppings to cook nicely.


TBS


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## RPCookin

roadfix said:


> The self-cleaning setting is great for making pizza.



Not sure how that would work, since every oven I've seen with that feature locks the door when it's on the clean setting.


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## Zagut

RPCookin said:


> Not sure how that would work, since every oven I've seen with that feature locks the door when it's on the clean setting.


 
I do not do this or recommend anyone doing this but the safety lock can be defeated and there are people who do. 

That's why I suggested to The Cooker Man to develop a safe home oven that goes to higher temps then is now available with a price point folks can afford as there does seem to be a market for it. 

Who knows? Perhaps if he does it might save a few people from themselves.


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## Dawgluver

Zagut said:


> I do not do this or recommend anyone doing this but the safety lock can be defeated and there are people who do.
> 
> That's why I suggested to The Cooker Man to develop a safe home oven that goes to higher temps then is now available with a price point folks can afford as there does seem to be a market for it.
> 
> Who knows? Perhaps if he does it might save a few people from themselves.




And incinerated pizza.


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## Zagut

Dawgluver said:


> And incinerated pizza.


 
Not if you time it right.

Hot oven pizzas don't take a long time to cook and are very tasty. 

Next time you visit your favorite pizza place ask them what their oven temp is.


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## Kayelle

Hmm, Pizza hasn't been on my diet for some time now but I remember cooking them on a stone at 425f with great results however my oven will go up to 550f. Granted, my stove is only 2 yrs old so maybe older ones don't go that high.


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## Andy M.

Some pizza shops cook delicious pizza at around 800ºF-900ºF.  However, that's not the only temperature that produces great pizza.  I, for one, don't care for charred dough on my pizza.


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## PrincessFiona60

Discuss Cooking is not advocating and recommends against bypassing the safety latches/devices on ovens or any type of appliance.


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