# Thinking about Cast Iron



## dc2123

I am strongly considering getting a cast iron skillet because they're inexpensive, last a lifetime, and apparently have great flavoring qualities.

Now, I have never cooked with cast iron before.

I've been looking up some things about them on google, but everyone has a different opinion on everything.

So I have a few questions.

1.Lodge seems like a leading brand, so what do you recommend between the pre-seasoned pan and un-seasoned pan. 
-What would be the process to start for one of these pans out of the package?

2.How long does it take to preheat on a stove top? Any heat to stay consistent with or not go above?

3. Washing ? What are proper techniques to get rid of residue + bacteria? Also how soon after I cook something should I clean it. Does it have to be immediately. Can I eat my meal first. Can I wait a day?


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## Andy M.

First of all, CI doesn't add flavor to anything unless it's not properly seasoned.  Then you'd get a metallic flavor in your food.

1.  There is no good reason to buy unseasoned.  The factory seasoning is a great place to start.

2.  It will take longer to heat to any temp when compared to SS or alum.  However, it holds that heat longer than either of the others.  CI is safe at any temperature you would cook at.

3.  Once it's fully seasoned, a quick wipe with a paper towel is often all that's needed.  Otherwise, wipe out any residual fat and solid particles and rinse under hot water.  Use a blue scrub sponge (safe for Teflon) to remove any stubborn residue.  If that doesn't work, boil some water in it for a couple of minutes to loosen residue.  Always dry it off by reheating it on a burner and wiping a very light coating of cooking oil on it.

Start using it right away.  Take it out of the package, wash is lightly and heat it up.  In the beginning, cook things that use or generate a lot of fat to add to the seasoning.  Bacon is a good starter.


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## danbuter

Make sure you oil the pan every time before cooking. My biggest goof when I was first learning was just throwing the bacon on a hot pan with no oil "because it was greasy enough". That was a mess.


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## GotGarlic

Great advice from Andy. I would just add that if you wait overnight or longer to wash cast iron, it will be harder to clean, just because the residue will have hardened, and you will be tempted to scrub more than necessary to get it clean. This might not be good for the seasoning. 

They're great pans. I love mine.


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## Katie H

Couldn't live without our cast iron cookware.  We have lots of different pieces, each with its own assigned task...my preference.

One of the ones I love the most is a huge, deep (at least 4 inches) skillet that is to-die-for when it comes to frying chicken.  That's its primary task.

Another one is a standard skillet, no high sides, that is probably about 9 inches in diameter and is my go-to pan for cornbread.  Actually, I think it's a federal law that requires that cornbread be made in a cast iron skillet.  The subsection of that law is that cornbread be made with lard or bacon fat.

Those two pieces are well over 100-years-old and I wouldn't part with them for anything.

We have many other pieces that are newer and, over time, have become nicely seasoned and perform much like any Teflon-coated piece of cookware.  

Andy's advice is spot on, along with GotGarlic's comment about waiting to clean cast iron.  Most of the time, especially with well-seasoned pieces, cleaning is just about as easy as cleaning commercially-made nonstick pots/pans.

Go out and get your first piece and enjoy it.  If you fall in love with it like most of us, you'll soon be looking for more.

P.S.  I see you live in NYC.  Well, then, cast iron can do double duty...it can also serve as an effective weapon.  One slug with a cast iron skillet and the recipient will have a headache to remember.


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## GotGarlic

danbuter said:


> Make sure you oil the pan every time before cooking. My biggest goof when I was first learning was just throwing the bacon on a hot pan with no oil "because it was greasy enough". That was a mess.



I always start bacon in a cold pan so the fat starts to render as the pan warms up. No need to add oil


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## dc2123

So one thing I guess I have a misconception of or lack of info is....

Lets say I cook a burger with ground beef. Afterwards I wash the cast iron out with hot water and scrub. Is that safe to use? or do I need to clean, dry, and put over stove again on a certain heat to kill bacteria


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## taxlady

GotGarlic said:


> I always start bacon in a cold pan so the fat starts to render as the pan warms up. No need to add oil


Same here.


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## Andy M.

dc2123 said:


> So one thing I guess I have a misconception of or lack of info is....
> 
> Lets say I cook a burger with ground beef. Afterwards I wash the cast iron out with hot water and scrub. Is that safe to use? or do I need to clean, dry, and put over stove again on a certain heat to kill bacteria



Reheating is more to ensure the pan is completely dry.  Once your CI pan is well seasoned, you can use dish soap if you feel it's necessary, though it seldom is.

If you've cooked the burger so that it's safe to eat, the residue should be safe too.  Unless you leave the dirty pan at room temperature for several days, bacteria shouldn't be a problem.


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## taxlady

Andy M. said:


> Reheating is more to ensure the pan is completely dry.  Once your CI pan is well seasoned, you can use dish soap if you feel it's necessary, though it seldom is.
> 
> If you've cooked the burger so that it's safe to eat, the residue should be safe too.  Unless you leave the dirty pan at room temperature for several days, bacteria shouldn't be a problem.


My mum just set on the stove and let the pilot light dry it out. I can't do that because I have an electric stove.


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## Dawgluver

I just wipe mine out too.  One thing I like about CI is that it's so multipurpose.  Stovetop, oven, grill, heck, you can even serve from it.  Just don't forget the pot holder!


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## Andy M.

taxlady said:


> My mum just set on the stove and let the pilot light dry it out. I can't do that because I have an electric stove.




Current day gas stoves don't have a gas pilot either.


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## taxlady

Andy M. said:


> Current day gas stoves don't have a gas pilot either.


Forgot about that.


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## Freki

Andy M. said:


> Current day gas stoves don't have a gas pilot either.



Some do, the apartment I was in about 2 years ago had a stove less than a year old when moving in, had a gas pilot light.  It was some odd brand I have never heard of (and can't remember now though)


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## Freki

Cast iron is really simple to care for and easy to use.  Personally I  prefer the older stuff with the machined cooking surface, they seem to  be much quicker to get "non stick" than new stuff with the rougher  casting (for ease of adding the pre-seasoning in the factories).  I cook 90% of our food in cast iron, and sometimes forget we have some teflon stuff!  

If you buy one that is used and needs to be seasoned, or just feel like adding to the pre-seasoning, it's quite easy!  Just put on a layer of Crisco, wipe it off with a cotton towel like you're trying to get it all off (you want a VERY thin layer), then place it in the oven upside-down at 450 for an hour or two.  Let it stay in the oven over night, and you're done!

It does take a bit to pre-heat, about 2 minutes on medium heat on my stove 

Cleaning is easy too, I usually wait until the pan is back to room temp and wipe it out with a paper towel.  If there is a lot of oil left, I will rinse it out with hot water and run a nylon brush over it and dry it on the stove on low heat for about 5 minutes to make sure it is 100% dry.  I've never used soap on any of mine and never had an issue.  All but 2 pieces in our collection were inherited and have all been cleaned the same way for decades!  We even have a griddle from the Civil War era.


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## Aunt Bea

taxlady said:


> My mum just set on the stove and let the pilot light dry it out. I can't do that because I have an electric stove.



I still store my cast iron pans in the oven, a holdover from the days of the pilot light!


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## Andy M.

Freki said:


> ...they seem to  be much quicker to get "non stick" than new stuff with the rougher  casting (for ease of adding the pre-seasoning in the factories)...




I don't think the rougher casting is for factory 'pre-seasoning'.  I bought my first Lodge CI pan before the Logic line was introduced and it has the same finish.   

The manufacturer uses the same process as you would at home to season the CI. 

Regardless, It's reliably non-stick.  The grainier finish doesn't seem to effect that at all.


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## Caslon

Dawgluver said:


> I just wipe mine out too.  One thing I like about CI is that it's so multipurpose.  Stovetop, oven, grill, heck, you can even serve from it.  Just don't forget the pot holder!



I run the water from tap as hot as I can get it, then use a regular handled dishwasher brush that has stiffer bristles than some and scour it out.  Also, it's one of those without soap in the handle. Never use dishwashing soap as it will degrade the seasoning.

When seasoning, I can't stress enough to keep the coating thin.  After initial seasoning, besides cooking lots of bacon, I set it on the burner on high with about 1/4" of vegetable oil in it and let it get smoking hot, then turn the heat off. This creates a nice sheen in the pan and makes water practically jump off when rinsing it.


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## Freki

Andy M. said:


> I don't think the rougher casting is for factory 'pre-seasoning'.  I bought my first Lodge CI pan before the Logic line was introduced and it has the same finish.
> 
> The manufacturer uses the same process as you would at home to season the CI.
> 
> Regardless, It's reliably non-stick.  The grainier finish doesn't seem to effect that at all.



I thought it had to do with making sure the oil sticks in the spraying process, I have no idea where I read it now and can't find it in a search.  Lodge does have some nice stuff


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## Andy M.

Freki said:


> I thought it had to do with making sure the oil sticks in the spraying process, I have no idea where I read it now and can't find it in a search.  Lodge does have some nice stuff




If the oil used in seasoning is supposed to be a super thin coating, it should cling and not run.

I bought one CI pan unseasoned and did it all myself, and another one was pre-seasoned.   I noticed no difference except the pre-seasoned one was easier on me.  Now, you can't tell them apart.


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## FrankZ

GotGarlic said:


> Great advice from Andy. I would just add that if you wait overnight or longer to wash cast iron, it will be harder to clean, just because the residue will have hardened, and you will be tempted to scrub more than necessary to get it clean. This might not be good for the seasoning.
> 
> They're great pans. I love mine.



If the pan is well seasoned then it will be fine with scrubbing, even hard scrubbing.


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## buckytom

to be clear, laddie, scrubbin is ok if'n ya ken how.

only with a scrubby sponge; no harsh steel wool, nor chemicals. just soap and water weel do.

(anyone else watchin "outlander".?)


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## dc2123

I guess another question I have is what is the proper step after washing? is it...

Paper towel dry, stove top heat dry, then thin coat of oil
OR
paper towel dry, thin coat of oil, then stove top heat.


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## Freki

dc2123 said:


> I guess another question I have is what is the proper step after washing? is it...
> 
> Paper towel dry, stove top heat dry, then thin coat of oil
> OR
> paper towel dry, thin coat of oil, then stove top heat.



Always dry complete before oiling.  Adding oil before heating it to dry could trap water under the oil and cause problems later.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

Long and short of Cast Iron.  The material is cast iron, and is extremely susceptible to corrosion (rust).  The cast iron, if unseasoned, may have a protective coating of wax to prevent its contact with air (oxygen) to prevent corrosion.  Anything and everything will stick to the bare metal like crazy.

To prepare an unseasoned, new cast iron pan, Scrub under hot running water, with soap to remove any coating.  Immediately dry with paper towels, inside and out.  Rub inside and out with a solid fat, i.e. shortening, or lard in a very thin layer.  Place into a 350 to 400 degree oven and let bake for 30 minutes.  Remove, taking care not to burn yourself on the hot metal, and repeat.  The pan now has a coating of hardened oil (carbon) that encapsulates the entire pan, making it both slippery to food, and isolated from oxygen.

As you cook with oil, the thickness of the carbon coating thickens and becomes harder.  Over time, it will be hard to remove this protective coating.  The coating also keeps food from contacting the raw iron, eliminating any metallic flavor from the food.  This metalic flavor is the result of acidic, or alkali foods leaching iron from the pan.

A pre-seasoned pan or pot requires only a light cleaning before use, but is made more durable with successive seasonings of the pan.  Cook with fat (oil or grease) will add layers of seasoning to the pan.

After using, simply place the pan under hot, running water, and scrub with a nylon scrub brush to remove any food bits, and excess oil.  Wipe dry with a paper towel, or dry on a hot burner, then add a tbs. of oil to the pan.  Wipe to a shine with paper towels.  Store when cooled.

Tip, Grease and oil can clog drains.  If you don't use soap to clean the pan, put the drain plug into the sing, along with a good, grease emulsifying soap such as Dawn Dish Soap.  Hold the pan under the running faucet and cleans as described above.  The fat will empty into the sink, where the soap can liquify it so that it won't stick to your drain pipes, preventing clogged drains.

Seeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## GotGarlic

One more tip: As my mother did. I keep a pickle or sauce jar under the sink for pouring out excess oil. When it's full, I throw it away. This keeps the oil from going down the drain. It's also bad for the water system beyond your pipes.


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## Andy M.

dc2123 said:


> I guess another question I have is what is the proper step after washing? is it...
> 
> Paper towel dry, stove top heat dry, then thin coat of oil
> OR
> paper towel dry, thin coat of oil, then stove top heat.




I dry the pan on the burner, wipe it with oil and heat it some more then let it cool on the stove.


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## taxlady

I don't use my "naked" cast iron for gravies. I use the enamelled cast iron for stuff like that. I haven't washed the "naked" cast iron in years. I wipe it. When necessary, I sprinkle a good coating of salt, heat gently, and scrub with a bamboo wok scrubber. If it's really dirty, I add a little bit of oil to the recalcitrant areas (on top of the salt) and let it heat for a bit longer and then use the wok scrubber.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

I save the left over chicken fat, or pork fat (bacon or ham) for cooking.  Oils are used to ignite charcoal on my Webber.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## CWS4322

I use a broom-corn pot scrubber. I've had it for years and it works great. Might plant broom corn next year to make a few replacements...


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## taxlady

CWS4322 said:


> I use a broom-corn pot scrubber. I've had it for years and it works great. Might plant broom corn next year to make a few replacements...


I never even heard of that before. I Googled and they look similar.


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## GotGarlic

I use my Pampered Chef stoneware scrubbers on stubborn cast-iron messes. They came free with my stoneware purchases: Amazon.com : Set of 3 Pampered Chef Brown Pot, Pan, and Stoneware Scrapers in Plain White Envelope. : Everything Else


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## CWS4322

taxlady said:


> I never even heard of that before. I Googled and they look similar.


Mine was made for me by a Norwegian woman who lived near my grandmother. She grew the broom corn in her garden for her adorable kitchen witches. She gave me one of those at the same time. She also made these adorable marionette puppets...I used to know the Norwegian word for them, but I've forgotten it. It is on the tip of my tongue. Anyway, I have two of those that hang in my back entrance and every now and again, I give the "string" a tug to make them dance.


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## Caslon

Sometimes after frying chicken, there IS a bit of crustyness stuck to the pan even tho it's   seasoned.  Rather than try and muscle it off right away, I  put some hot tap water in the pan and let it sit for 10 minutes or so, and it cleans off effortlessly.


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## callmaker60

Go for it, you won't regret it, my go to pan for almost everything.
No soap to clean it !!!


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## dc2123

Caslon said:


> Sometimes after frying chicken, there IS a bit of crustyness stuck to the pan even tho it's   seasoned.  Rather than try and muscle it off right away, I  put some hot tap water in the pan and let it sit for 10 minutes or so, and it cleans off effortlessly.



Frying chicken or fried anything for that matter is something I have never personally cooked in my life. I would love to give it a shot.

What type of oil is best to use? What heat do you put your stove? do you have to do anything to deal with the lowering of temp after putting food in?
How do you clean CI after all that oil?


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

dc2123 said:


> Frying chicken or fried anything for that matter is something I have never personally cooked in my life. I would love to give it a shot.
> 
> What type of oil is best to use? What heat do you put your stove? do you have to do anything to deal with the lowering of temp after putting food in?
> How do you clean CI after all that oil?



First, know that there are numerous kinds of frying.  Let me try and give you some info.

1. Deep fat frying - completely immersing food in 360 to 370' oil so as to brown the surface and bring the internal temperature of the food to a safe level.

2. Pan Fry - frying food in 2 to 3 inches of oil, again heated to around 360 to 370' F, and cooking until browned on one side, then flipping and browning the other side.  Care must be taken to insure that meat, especially chicken and turkey, are cooked until 160'F is reached in the thickest part of the meat.

3. Dry-fry - Pan should have just a sheen of oil on the cooking surface and is ready when the oil becomes fragrant.  Food is placed onto the pan and browned on one side, flipped, and browned on the other.  This method is good for steaks, chops, chicken or turkey strips, and most veggies.

4. Stir-fry - Dry frying, but with very high heat, and constantly moving the food around until all is cooked through.

5. Velveting (poaching) - This is a specialized technique that uses oil too cool to acuatally fry food, i.e. 335 to 340 degrees, but rather gently poaches a coated meat until the starch turns opaque.  This allows the meat to be cooked just until done, and no more, which results in ridiculously tender, and well flavored meat.

I've no time to expound further right now, as I'm at work.  There are many here who can explain in detail the methods listed above, and who can give you both techniques and recipes using them.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

Well, now I have 15 to 20 minutes while I wait for a repair vendor to call.  So, I'm going to give you a recipe for fried chicken.  It's a two step process that uses pan frying, and roasting to create very juicy and tender chicken, and even waffles or hush puppies afterward.

*Recipe 1: I'm going to name this one - Chief's Favorite Chicken
*
 Preheat the oven to 375' F.
Dry chicken pieces with paper towels and set aside.


In a bowl, whisk together the following:

1/2 cup all-purpose flour
1 1/2 tsp. kosher salt
1/2 tsp. granulated garlic powder
1/8 tsp. powdered ginger
1/2 tsp. marjoram
1/4 tsp. rubbed sage
1/4 tsp. ground thyme
1/2 tsp. black pepper
1/4 tsp. turmeric
1/8 tsp. red pepper
1 dash Chinese 5-spice powder
1/8 tsp. celery seed
1/4 tsp. granulated onion powder


In a separate bowl, make an egg-wash from 1 large egg whisked with 1/4 cup water.

Preheat 2 inches of oil in a frying pan until fragrant.  Turn heat to medium flame.

Skin the chicken pices and dredge in seasoned flour, two at a time.  Dip in the egg-wash, and then again in the seasoned flour.  Shake excess coating from the chicken and place in hot oil.  Don't crown the pan.  Fry on each side for 2 minutes, or until lightly browned.  Remove the chicken to a foil-lined pan.  Repeat until all of the chicken pieces have been fried.  Place the pan into the oven.  Bake for 20 minutes.  Serve immediately.


That left-over egg wash and flour, there are two things you can do with them.  First, you can add 2 tsp. baking powder to the seasoned flour, along with two tbs of sugar, then add the egg wash to make a batter.  Add more liquid of needed.  pour the batter into a waffle iron to make really great waffles. 



Or, Do as above, but to make a biscuit dough.  Add more flour if required.  Either drop by tablespoon onto a parchment line cookie sheet and bake as biscuits, or drop into the hot oil to make hush puppies.  Again, they are just plain yummy.


You know that skin that you removed from the chicken?  Dry fry that with a little salt to make cracklings.  You will want these well browned and crispy.  Use in place of bacon bits, or simply drain on paper towels and serve with the meal.  These are incredibly tasty.


You can also make a broth from the skins, to use as a gravy, or sauce.  Simply boil them in a cup or two of water, add salt, sage, and pepper to taste, and thicken with a corn-starch slurry, or make a roux with flour and butter, then stir the broth in to make a gravy.


As for cooling of the oil, since we aren't deep frying until the food is completely done, this won't be a problem.  Just don't overcrowd the pan and you'll be fine.  I wouldn't put more than three pieces of chicken into a ten inch pan at the same time.  I'd put four pieces into a 12 inch pan.



Seeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## Hoot

Sounds great, Chief!
In lieu of the egg wash, I use buttermilk.
We soak the pieces in buttermilk for at least two hours (overnight in the fridge is better) and dredge, soak, redredge.
I shall try your seasonatings next time we make fried chicken.


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## taxlady

So what's granulated onion or garlic powder?

I know about granulated onion/garlic and about onion/garlic powder.





runs and hides.


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## philkel

Wow some great advice here on cast iron cookware and Andy gave some great advice, thanks. I have heard that if you cook fish on cast iron it absorbs the fish smell and you can't get rid of the smell ever. Has anyone had that experience?


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## taxlady

philkel said:


> Wow some great advice here on cast iron cookware and Andy gave some great advice, thanks. I have heard that if you cook fish on cast iron it absorbs the fish smell and you can't get rid of the smell ever. Has anyone had that experience?


My mum used to cook fish in a well seasoned cast iron skillet. She only ever washed it if she had cooked fish or made gravy in it. I never noticed a fish smell.


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## Kathleen

dc2123 said:


> Frying chicken or fried anything for that matter is something I have never personally cooked in my life. I would love to give it a shot.
> 
> What type of oil is best to use? What heat do you put your stove? do you have to do anything to deal with the lowering of temp after putting food in?
> How do you clean CI after all that oil?



There are many kinds of cooking oils: Some are plant-based, some are animal-based, and others are synthetics.  I grew up with plant and animal-based cooking oils.  For frying, you want an oil that can withstand high heat.  I like corn oil for frying because it has a high smoke point (meaning it is harder to catch fire) but it does add a bit of flavor to food which puts some people off.  Safflower also has a high flash point and does not add that flavor.  Plus, it is a fairly healthy oil, but it is spendy compared to many other oils.  

Momma used plain old Crisco.  Vegetable-based, high flash point and did not add flavor to foods really.....plus, if you use the shortening, it makes pretty good pie crust...according to those who can make pie crusts.  

The real trick to frying is to get your oil hot enough prior to starting the frying.  And to not put so much food in to fry that you significantly lower the temperature.  Properly fried chicken = crispy on the outside, thoroughly cooked and juicy inside.  Cooked in too low temperature = oil soaked coating and questionable inside.  Too high temperature = burned outside and undercooked inside.  

Using a cast-iron skillet really helps.   Wash it up and dry it.  Then heat it a bit to be sure it is dry and cool before putting it away.


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## Dawgluver

No worries.  I've fried fish in my CI pans, they cleaned up fine, no fishy smell.


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## Kathleen

I've never had cast iron take on a food (fish or otherwise) smell.  I honestly do not see how it could.


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## dc2123

While on the topic of pans, can anyone go over their favorite pan. What its uses are and how to maintain it.

i've been a teflon non stick user for a while, and I have recently discovered the danger of them. 
But I don't know how to use or maintain any other type of pans.

One time I made tomato sauce in a stainless steel stockpot, or aluminum. Not sure which. But I didn't stir constantly and I scorched the bottom of the pan and ruined it. 

Anyone have any insight on this pan?
Amazon.com: All-Clad Stainless 10-Inch Fry Pan: Kitchen & Dining


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## Andy M.

That pan is one of my favorites.  Except for cast iron, I prefer tri-ply SS pans.  The tri-ply is very effective to prevent scorching/burning of food as the aluminum layer is excellent at evenly distributing heat. The pan reacts quickly to changes in heat.

All-Clad is top notch in that category.  However, check out the Cookware & More - Outlet for All-Clad Irregulars  site.  It offers cosmetically imperfect All-Clad for reduced prices.  Well worth it.


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## Kathleen

Andy M. said:


> That pan is one of my favorites.  Except for cast iron, I prefer tri-ply SS pans.  The tri-ply is very effective to prevent scorching/burning of food as the aluminum layer is excellent at evenly distributing heat. The pan reacts quickly to changes in heat.
> 
> All-Clad is top notch in that category.  However, check out the Cookware & More - Outlet for All-Clad Irregulars  site.  It offers cosmetically imperfect All-Clad for reduced prices.  Well worth it.



How imperfect are the pans, Andy?  I would not mind a scratch.  I don't want gouges or huge dents though.  Could you describe how irregular your experiences have been?


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## Andy M.

Kathleen said:


> How imperfect are the pans, Andy?  I would not mind a scratch.  I don't want gouges or huge dents though.  Could you describe how irregular your experiences have been?



Sorry, I can't describe it.  Every pan would be different.  They are cosmetic and don't interfere with the function of the pan.


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## Kathleen

Andy M. said:


> Sorry, I can't describe it.  Every pan would be different.  They are cosmetic and don't interfere with the function of the pan.



That's the important thing.  After a year with me, my pans get scratches on the outside.  Good prices!  Thank you.

At CostCo today, we saw two Lodge Cast Iron skillets for $39.99.  One was 10 inches and the other 8 inches, I think....


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## Andy M.

Kathleen said:


> That's the important thing.  After a year with me, my pans get scratches on the outside.  Good prices!  Thank you.
> 
> At CostCo today, we saw two Lodge Cast Iron skillets for $39.99.  One was 10 inches and the other 8 inches, I think....



Check the Costco website.  They have a 12" and a 10" with two silicone sleeves for the handles for $36.99.


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## Kathleen

Andy M. said:


> Check the Costco website.  They have a 12" and a 10" with two silicone sleeves for the handles for $36.99.



I'm sure that is it!  I got the dimensions and cost off.  Thank you for posting the correction.  But they are made by Lodge and I thought it was a good deal!


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## buckytom

are all lodge pieces still american made?


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## Farmer Jon

Ive used cast iron all my life. Wash in the sink with he rest of the dishes. I reseason them every couple years.


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## FrankZ

buckytom said:


> are all lodge pieces still american made?



The enameled stuff is enameled elsewhere.  The CI itself is still American made as far as I know.


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## Addie

FrankZ said:


> The enameled stuff is enameled elsewhere.  The CI itself is still American made as far as I know.



Lodge - About Us: Our History

This is their site with all you want to know.


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## dc2123

Andy M. said:


> That pan is one of my favorites.  Except for cast iron, I prefer tri-ply SS pans.  The tri-ply is very effective to prevent scorching/burning of food as the aluminum layer is excellent at evenly distributing heat. The pan reacts quickly to changes in heat.
> 
> All-Clad is top notch in that category.  However, check out the Cookware & More - Outlet for All-Clad Irregulars  site.  It offers cosmetically imperfect All-Clad for reduced prices.  Well worth it.



Could you explain how to properly use a pan like this. I have no knowledge what so ever.

Do you need to season it? Will things stick to it? How do you preheat it and do you use butter or oil? etc etc


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## Andy M.

Food sticks to dirty pans and cold pans.  So keep the pan clean and don't add foods to the pan until the pan and the fat are hot.  

I use this skillet to cook meats hot and fast.  I heat the pan until a droplet of water sizzles immediately upon contact.  Then I add the fat, either butter or oil, and wait for it to get hot.  Then I place the meat in the pan.  The meat should be dry and seasoned with salt and pepper.  Once the meat is in the pan, leave it alone.  Don't try to move it because it's stuck to the pan.  Let it cook for a minute or two.  As the heat forms a crust on the meat, it will unstick itself from the pan.  When that side is nicely browned, turn the meat over and repeat.  Depending on the meat you are cooking, it should continue to cook at a lower temperature until it's properly cooked in the interior.

Never cut the meat open to see if it's done.  You will lose all the juices.  Use a digital instant read thermometer.  Remove the meat to a plate and loosely cover it with foil and let it rest for 10 minutes.

When you heat meats to a high temperature, the proteins contract and the meat shrinks a little as a result.  This contraction squeezes the juices out of the meat cells.  When you let it rest, the meat cools, the cells relax a little, and those juices will be drawn back into the meat.  That's why you don't cut meat to se if it's done.  You lose the juices and end up with dry meat.


----------



## GotGarlic

Here's lots of info from previous discussions:

http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f8/why-does-everything-stick-to-my-pans-83281.html

http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f17/iso-help-cooking-with-stainless-steel-71106.html


----------



## ChefMariaSantiago

Cast iron pans are the way to go. Teflan limits the tools you can use while cooking and I find once they scratch they are no longer any good. You need to get a good cast iron pan and ensure that you apply oil after every use to build up a good seasoning which will lead it to be non-stick.


----------



## Addie

Jix said:


> My cast iron pan is probably one of my greatest purchases.



They are highly recommended here also. Welcome to DC.


----------



## roadfix

I was never able to get a good sear using my dad's fry pans over a rather weak flamed stovetop he has at his condo until one day I brought my Lodge round griddle over.   Now the burgers and steaks I cook on his stovetop come out great.   
CI's ability to amass and retain heat even over weak flames made a huge difference.  I told him to just keep the CI griddle.


----------



## Whiskadoodle

One thing you need to do is use thick hot pads when using CI pans.  .  Those handles get hot.  

I was pulling a frying pan from the oven and it was heavy and hot, so I doubled the hot pad over to get a better grip, leaving part of the handle exposed.   I still have a 2 inch scar on my R palm a year later!


----------



## Roll_Bones

I will take aluminum any day over cast iron.  Just my preference.
We do use one cast iron skillet for frying chicken.  But thats it.
AL all the way.  Light and conducts heat much better.


----------



## Andy M.

Roll_Bones said:


> I will take aluminum any day over cast iron.  Just my preference.
> We do use one cast iron skillet for frying chicken.  But thats it.
> AL all the way.  Light and conducts heat much better.




Interesting.  The only aluminum I have is skillet coated with Teflon.


----------



## roadfix

My daughter uses a thick aluminum griddle which "lock in" nicely over 2 high output stovetop burner grates.   Cooks evenly and retains heat well.   I like them but costs at least double what a comparably sized CI griddle would cost.   But the CI would weigh at least double that of the aluminum griddle. 
I still like CI because they're cheap and come in many sizes and configurations.   I just don't like the weights of the very large griddles I use....


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## GotGarlic

I don't get the problem people have with the weight of cast iron (unless you have medical strength issues). I think of it as a workout without having to go to the gym!


----------



## CWS4322

If you use a cast iron skillet vs. A cast iron grill pan to sear or cook meat, the grill pan holds more heat than a CI skillet, so cooking time will be slightly less if using a grill pan. Love all my CI and LeCreust pans.


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## dcSaute

here's the scientific facts on aluminum, cast iron, etc.
https://www.engineersedge.com/properties_of_metals.htm

aluminum does in fact "hold heat" better than cast iron - that's the Specific Heat column.

aluminum will "hold" 0.24 BTU per pound of aluminum for each Fahrenheit degree it is heated.

cast iron is only half as good at "holding heat" -
cast iron will "hold" 0.12 BTU per pound of cast iron for each Fahrenheit degree it is heated.

so, an aluminum griddle/pan must weigh twice as much as a cast iron griddle/pan in order to "hold" the same amount of heat energy.


----------



## Andy M.

dcSaute said:


> here's the scientific facts on aluminum, cast iron, etc.
> https://www.engineersedge.com/properties_of_metals.htm
> 
> aluminum does in fact "hold heat" better than cast iron - that's the Specific Heat column.
> 
> aluminum will "hold" 0.24 BTU per pound of aluminum for each Fahrenheit degree it is heated.
> 
> cast iron is only half as good at "holding heat" -
> cast iron will "hold" 0.12 BTU per pound of cast iron for each Fahrenheit degree it is heated.
> 
> so, an aluminum griddle/pan must weigh twice as much as a cast iron griddle/pan in order to "hold" the same amount of heat energy.




That would be great if an aluminum pan actually weighed twice as much as a a CI pan.  In real life, an aluminum pan would weigh a fraction of what a CI pan weighs so it would be less able to hold heat that the heavier CI pan.


----------



## dcSaute

I should drink more coffee before posting stuff....I got distracted trying to be p.c. in the language / expression / etc.

as one will notice, the concluding sentence of my post is in reverse - heated to the same temperature, a pound of aluminum will hold twice the BTU heat energy of a pound of cast iron.

the glitch is, few - if any - aluminum pans of similar size approach half the weight of a cast iron pan.  cast iron is 2.65 times 'denser' than aluminum - given similar construction, to achieve equal weight, the aluminum pan would need to be 2.65 times "thicker" - 

to achieve equal "heat holding capacity" - half of that or 1.33 times thicker than cast iron - and that's just an unlikely design - with the possible exception cast aluminum stuff from the 1940's-50's.  my MIL had "Club" brand that was fairly thick.

the thermodynamic properties on that site apply to the "pure" metal.  aluminum cookware is an alloy - and manufacturers typically don't reveal the technical specifics, so without taking the pan to a lab for analysis and testing it is rather more than a lot not possible to make more 'accurate' statements than comparatives.


----------



## Sir_Loin_of_Beef

dc2123 said:


> I've been looking up some things about them on google, but everyone has a different opinion on everything.



And you thought everyone on Google had a different opinion?


----------



## Roll_Bones

Andy M. said:


> Interesting.  The only aluminum I have is skillet coated with Teflon.



Some years ago (20+) a family member bought me a set of commercial Calphalon pans. I was sold and have added and deleted from the collection over the years.  One reason why I like to buy individual pieces instead of sets.
But hands down, I prefer the AL to the CI.




dcSaute said:


> I should drink more coffee before posting stuff....I got distracted trying to be p.c. in the language / expression / etc.
> 
> as one will notice, the concluding sentence of my post is in reverse - heated to the same temperature, a pound of aluminum will hold twice the BTU heat energy of a pound of cast iron.
> 
> the glitch is, few - if any - aluminum pans of similar size approach half the weight of a cast iron pan.  cast iron is 2.65 times 'denser' than aluminum - given similar construction, to achieve equal weight, the aluminum pan would need to be 2.65 times "thicker" -
> 
> to achieve equal "heat holding capacity" - half of that or 1.33 times thicker than cast iron - and that's just an unlikely design - with the possible exception cast aluminum stuff from the 1940's-50's.  my MIL had "Club" brand that was fairly thick.
> 
> the thermodynamic properties on that site apply to the "pure" metal.  aluminum cookware is an alloy - and manufacturers typically don't reveal the technical specifics, so without taking the pan to a lab for analysis and testing it is rather more than a lot not possible to make more 'accurate' statements than comparatives.



Happy to see you corrected the mistake. Saved me from having to look it up.
I never gave much thought to "holding heat" as I was much more concerned with how fast the pan got hot.
I guess we now know the AL heats faster and holds heat longer than CI.


----------



## Andy M.

Hold on.  If AL has high thermal conductivity it would have to work the same in both directions.  That is, if AL heats up faster than CI, it has to lose heat faster than CI as well.

The specific heat figures are not responsive to AL vs CI pans as there is a huge weight difference.  You're not comparing apples to apples.


----------



## dcSaute

oh dear.

aluminum transmits heat faster by coefficient.  almost three times as fast.
pure aluminum, that is.  aluminum alloys do not transmit so fast - their performance is less, up to 50% less.

however, the coefficient is defined by how much heat energy passes through a plane at right angles/ normal to the flow of the heat energy.  

in the shape of a pot/pan that boils down to the thickness of the bottom.
again, most aluminum construction is not as thick as cast iron.

I've had old style Calphalon that was thick; the newer stuff, not so much.

the thickness and mass factors are why discussions of aluminum vs cast iron go in circles of ever decreasing diameter until they spin into nothing.  it seems everyone's experiences are different simply because "cast iron" and "aluminum" as the primary determining factor are in fact not the primary determining factors.

here's a pix of a slant logo Griswold from a century ago, vs. a month old Caphalon fry pan.

that era Griswold is 'famous' for being thin and lightweight.  it weighs 3 lbs
the Caphalon is roughly half as thick - weighs 2 lb 0.125 ounces
(I'm not going to remove the handles for this....)

modern day Lodge (for example) pans of that size weigh roughly twice as much as the old Griswold, and they are thicker.  the mass of today's cast iron is why so many people dislike it - it is heavy.  (some of) the old stuff, not so heavy.

all that aside, the folk lore experience is that cast iron holds heat better than aluminum and takes longer to heat up, and even longer to heat up "evenly."

whether it is right or wrong depends on the exact cookware involved - but that is in fact the "legend" and there are very sound explanations as to why that legend evolved.


----------



## RPCookin

dcSaute said:


> all that aside, the folk lore experience is that cast iron holds heat better than aluminum and takes longer to heat up, and even longer to heat up "evenly."
> 
> whether it is right or wrong depends on the exact cookware involved - but that is in fact the "legend" and there are very sound explanations as to why that legend evolved.



I'll go a long with the takes longer to heat up evenly.  The grill pan replacement for the center grate on my gas range is recommended to preheat for at least 10 minutes before cooking a steak or pork chop on it.  I usually give it 12-15 minutes to be sure, and it does a great job.  

Since I don't have an aluminum one to compare it to, I can't say for sure, but if I did the same preheat with any of my nonstick aluminum pans, I'd burn the coating right off.  All that long preheat does with the grill pan is just slick up the seasoning.


----------



## CraigC

Andy M. said:


> *Hold on.  If AL has high thermal conductivity it would have to work the same in both directions.  That is, if AL heats up faster than CI, it has to lose heat faster than CI as well.*
> 
> The specific heat figures are not responsive to AL vs CI pans as there is a huge weight difference.  You're not comparing apples to apples.



Andy, that is spot on! A lot of electrical equipment use aluminum as a "Heat Sink", since it is an economical means of dispersing excess generated heat. I would think that when you want heat retention in cooking, CI would be the most economical, requiring less energy to maintain an even cooking temp at a lower stove/oven setting than aluminum, which loses heat more rapidly. Of course, gold is much better.

A little OT, but can you freeze to death in 80F water?


----------



## Caslon

Aren't most aluminum pan interiors coated?


----------



## Roll_Bones

Andy M. said:


> Hold on.  If AL has high thermal conductivity it would have to work the same in both directions.  That is, if AL heats up faster than CI, it has to lose heat faster than CI as well.
> The specific heat figures are not responsive to AL vs CI pans as there is a huge weight difference.  You're not comparing apples to apples.





CraigC said:


> Andy, that is spot on! A lot of electrical equipment use aluminum as a "Heat Sink", since it is an economical means of dispersing excess generated heat. I would think that when you want heat retention in cooking, CI would be the most economical, requiring less energy to maintain an even cooking temp at a lower stove/oven setting than aluminum, which loses heat more rapidly. Of course, gold is much better.
> 
> A little OT, but can you freeze to death in 80F water?



I agree with both of you and was trying to be funny when I made the last statement.
For AL to heat faster, physics say it must also lose heat faster. Good example Craig in regards to electrical uses for AL. Not only do we use AL heat sinks, we use wire made of aluminum.  
Now that you guys got me thinking, maybe this quicker cool down on the AL cookware might just be another great reason to use AL.
Heat up fast and cool off fast.  To me, thats what a good pan should do.



Caslon said:


> Aren't most aluminum pan interiors coated?



Not all. Calphalon anodized is not coated with a non stick material.  But its anodized and I am not certain what that means.  They are not bright AL, but look almost black or dark gray.
If you ever watched them make scrambled eggs at Waffle House, they are using a AL bright uncoated pan.  Nothing sticks.
I did notice in one WH, they were using a CI small fry pan for eggs.

Good discussion.


----------



## Roll_Bones

CraigC said:


> A little OT, but can you freeze to death in 80F water?



Absolutely, you could die if you stayed in there long enough.
Any outside source that can lower your internal body temperature would be life threatening.
At 80 degrees F, it would take a long time for a normal healthy person.
But entirely possible death could occur.


----------



## FrankZ

CraigC said:


> A little OT, but can you freeze to death in 80F water?



No.  You can succumb to hypothermia and drown though.  You won't be frozen though....


----------



## dcSaute

Heat up fast and cool off fast...........

(sigh)  true, very true.  consider a bucket with a large hole in it.  toss it in the water, the big hole lets in the water fast and it semi-sinks.  pull it up out of the water and the big hole lets the water run out fast.

however,,,, "thats what a good pan should do" - often call responsiveness - and as Willie said:  "there's the rub"

despite the fact that the hole is big and water goes in fast and comes out fast, how big is the bucket?  how much water has to come in or go out?  

a two gallon bucket will weigh less faster than a six gallon bucket.

gallons = specific heat 
size of hole = thermal conductivity

copper anyone?


----------



## Addie

Many moons ago (late 1960's) I found an aluminum fry pan with a cover, along with a wooden handle and a set of aluminum triangle shaped pans in a Goodwill store. I think I may have paid the grand sum of $2.00 for all of the four pans. The fry pan had a small helper handle. I loved those pans. I used that fry pan more than my CI. Nothing ever stuck, chicken fried up to a beautiful golden color. And the three triangle shaped pans fit on one burner and were perfect for cooking more than one veggie on one burner. I would sell the blood of my first born to find an aluminum frying pan like that one today. So much lighter to carry to the sink for cleaning.


----------



## Chief Longwind Of The North

There are several engineers of DC who could chime in on the CI vs AL argument.  Iron, cast or otherwise, is a relatively poor heat conductor, while aluminum is a great heat conductor.  When aluminum is placed either on a hot surface, or heated by flame, it begins to absorb the heat energy, rapidly.  Being a very good conductor, the heat spreads evenly through the metal more readily.  The disadvantage of this is that when something cold, like a pork chop, or cut of beef is added to the pan/pot, the aluminum quickly gives up that heat, or cools rapidly.  The fire must be of sufficient strength for the entire cooking time to generate enough heat in the pan to continue to produce enough heat transfer from the pan to the food.

Aluminum, just so's you knows, can be seasoned, just like cast iron, with a little fat.  I have an aluminum pan that came with directions for seasoning the pan to make it non-stick.

Cast iron will cook less evenly, if not used properly.  Where the flame, or heat source touches the metal, heat is absorbed, albeit more slowly than with aluminum.  It takes more time for the heat to distribute itself evenly throughout the metal, hence the reason that the pan must be preheated over a period of time before cooking.  When the food is placed into the pan, there is lots of thermal mass in the heavier pan, and yes, I know that the same weight of aluminum holds more heat than does iron.  Suffice it to say that the cast iron pans of today are significantly heavier than are aluminum pans of the same diameter.  The food begins absorbing heat from the pan, but it takes longer for the heat to transfer.  The surface is sufficiently hot to cook the meat, and tends to maintain that temperature better when the food is place into it.  That is why people talk about getting a better sear on meat.  There is sufficient heat long enough to do the required work.

Thinner cast iron is notorious for having hot spots where the metal touches the heat source.  This creates uneven cooking.  Stainless steel suffers the same problem, it also being a poor heat conductor.  That's why aluminum or copper are encapsulated, and put on the pan bottom, or in between the layers of SS, to allow the more heat conductive metals to distribute the heat evenly across the steel to eliminate hot spots.

Both aluminum and copper are not only great heat conductors, but are very good electrical conductors as well.  You know those induction stoves, they work by creating moving magnetic fields do to a property called induction.  And time you move a conductor through a magnetic field, or move a magnetic field across a conductor, it induces an electrical current through the conductor.  As electrical current moves through a conductor, one of the results is that it creates heat that is proportional to the electrical resistance of that conductor.  The resistance of both copper and aluminum is very low, and thus the currents (in this case, eddy currents) that are created in copper or aluminum cookware isn't sufficient to create enough heat for food preparation.  Both cast iron, and steel are poor electrical conductors, though they are conductors.  The eddy currents generated by the induction _burner_ create enough heat to boil water in two minutes.  By decreasing the current flow through the induction coils of the stove, the amount of induced heat is less.  Though electrical-magnetic energy is used instead of fire with the pots and pans, the metal reacts instantly to a decrease of energy, just as it does with changing the heat of the flame from a gas stove.

So that's the medium-long answer to the difference between aluminum, copper, cast iron, and steel cookware.  I hope what I just shared helps everyone understand their cookware better.

Seeeeeeya;  Chief Longwind of the North


----------



## CharlieD

The only reason I do not use cast iron are my arms. Can't lift heavy stuff anymore. Otherwise I'd still use my old grandma's pane, my mochas them stored somewhere. They are the best. 


Sent from my iPad using Discuss Cooking


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## RPCookin

Roll_Bones said:


> Not all. Calphalon anodized is not coated with a non stick material.  But its anodized and I am not certain what that means.  They are not bright AL, but look almost black or dark gray.
> If you ever watched them make scrambled eggs at Waffle House, they are using a AL bright uncoated pan.  Nothing sticks.
> I did notice in one WH, they were using a CI small fry pan for eggs.
> 
> Good discussion.



Anodizing is bonding aluminum oxide to the surface through an electrolytic bath, usually to make the surface harder than the bare aluminum.  I was a machinist, and I used to make machine parts from anodized aluminum.  For anodized surfaces, it took a lot of pressure for a drill or other cutting took to break through the anodized layer, but it was just soft aluminum underneath.  

The anodized layer is extremely thin, often as little as 2 microns, but makes a significant difference in the surface hardness.  It helps to make the surface corrosion resistant, which is why it is used in food service applications.


----------



## dcSaute

...the CI vs AL argument.

engineers, physicists, rocket scientists, thermodynamisists, PhD's, high school drop outs, grade school drop outs, etc, can chime in until the cows come home.

different cooking tasks are best met by different techniques and - OMG - different cooking equipment - which includes "the same thing but made from something different"

you can drive from NY to LA in a Smart Car; you may find it a different experience than driving the same route in cushy luxury car.

both are possible - "best" is not applicable because that is a matter of taste, not fact or reality.

generations of people who actually cook as opposed to cook bloggers - have the opinion that cast iron does certain tasks better than other materials.

generations of people who actually cook as opposed to cook bloggers - have the  opinion that Teflon does certain tasks better than other materials.

but as an example the "Teflon is killing you" sect will not accept that, for any reason, and you can talk until you keel over dead from orator exhaustion and none of them will be moved - despite the rather dire lack of any evidence from anywhere on the planet that someone died from eating food cooking on Teflon.

it's the same as the "What's the best knife?" deal.
best to do what?


----------



## Andy M.

+1.  What he said.


----------



## Chief Longwind Of The North

+2 here.  So many choices.  If you really need to, try out a couple of different pans and see which ones you like best.  I have aluminum, teflon coated aluminum, stainless steel, cast iron, and carbon steel pans.  Each has advantages and disadvantages.  I use what I need for what I want to accomplish.

The only way to solve the dilemma is to cook, and see what you like best.  No one can tell you which is best.  You have to figure it out.

Seeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


----------



## Kayelle

What's the biggest negative for cast iron? It weighs a ton! I'm no longer willing to deal with that on a daily basis.


----------



## CStanford

When you're cooking food and you turn the dial on the heat, regardless of direction, you like for something to happen pretty quickly.  If you're so good that you never need to adjust the fire under the pan on the fly then by all means use cast iron.  If not, then...

I'll never understand its appeal.  I've cooked in restaurants, one with 3 Michelin stars, and I never saw one single piece of cast iron being used.  None.  The only thing cast iron in these kitchens were the grates on the hobs.  I'm sure it's used in some professional kitchens but I am at a loss for why.  What a professional actually wants is the thinnest pan suitable for the technique.  Thin means control.  And by thin I mean the thickness of quality copper cookware and carbon steel pans -- somewhere around 2.5 to 3.0 mm thick.  Changing heat on a CI pan is like turning an aircraft carrier.


----------



## roadfix

CStanford said:


> When you're cooking food and you turn the dial on the heat, regardless of direction, you like for something to happen pretty quickly.  If you're so good that you never need to adjust the fire under the pan on the fly then by all means use cast iron.  If not, then...
> 
> I'll never understand its appeal.  I've cooked in restaurants, one with 3 Michelin stars, and I never saw one single piece of cast iron being used.  None.  The only thing cast iron in these kitchens were the grates on the hobs.  I'm sure it's used in some professional kitchens but I am at a loss for why.  What a professional actually wants is the thinnest pan suitable for the technique.  Thin means control.  And by thin I mean the thickness of quality copper cookware and carbon steel pans -- somewhere around 2.5 to 3.0 mm thick.  Changing heat on a CI pan is like turning an aircraft carrier.



The problem is that most residential stoves put out nowhere near the BTU's that commercial stoves put out.    The thinnest pan on a typical residential stove will not perform as effectively as it will on a commercial stove.
But a CI on an underpowered stove can cook rather effectively once it reaches temp.


----------



## taxlady

I cook a lot on enamelled cast iron. Sometimes it is helpful that the reaction time is slow.


----------



## GotGarlic

taxlady said:


> I cook a lot on enamelled cast iron. Sometimes it is helpful that the reaction time is slow.



Same here. I have enameled cast iron and bare cast iron. Both have their uses.


----------



## CStanford

roadfix said:


> The problem is that most residential stoves put out nowhere near the BTU's that commercial stoves put out.    The thinnest pan on a typical residential stove will not perform as effectively as it will on a commercial stove.
> But a CI on an underpowered stove can cook rather effectively once it reaches temp.



It's more about the reaction time when turning the heat down than up.  A home stove is more than capable of keeping heat on a carbon steel or copper pan (especially the latter) for hours on end though they're rarely called on to do this.


----------



## CraigC

What would happen if you tried putting a thin pan on a jet cooker, raised the heat to what would get a CI pan screaming, white hot as required to properly blacken a piece of fish or a steak?


----------



## CStanford

Clean a well-seasoned and well-used bare CI pan with your normal protocol.  Take a clean tri-ply stainless pan or whatever sort of stainless you have.  Pour a large tumbler of clean tap water into both pans.  Leave pans cold and let the water sit in each pan for an hour or so.  Pour water out of each pan back into its own tumbler.  Look closely at the water, *smell* the water.

Which glass of water would you rather drink?

Just sayin'

Don't even do this and put any heat on the pans.  You'll wretch at one of the glasses of water if you do.  I'll let you guess which one.  If you're thinking the grease from bacon you fried five years ago is somehow helping your food taste better then you won't think so anymore.


----------



## GotGarlic

That's just silly. No one who cooks regularly with cast iron thinks the seasoning makes the food taste better. It makes the pan non-stick. 

Cast iron has a lot of great uses in a home kitchen. What's appropriate in a commercial kitchen isn't relevant.


----------



## Chief Longwind Of The North

CStanford said:


> Clean a well-seasoned and well-used bare CI pan with your normal protocol.  Take a clean tri-ply stainless pan or whatever sort of stainless you have.  Pour a large tumbler of clean tap water into both pans.  Leave pans cold and let the water sit in each pan for an hour or so.  Pour water out of each pan back into its own tumbler.  Look closely at the water, *smell* the water.
> 
> Which glass of water would you rather drink?
> 
> Just sayin'
> 
> Don't even do this and put any heat on the pans.  You'll wretch at one of the glasses of water if you do.  I'll let you guess which one.  If you're thinking the grease from bacon you fried five years ago is somehow helping your food taste better then you won't think so anymore.



The problem with mineral pans, or thin SS pans is that they develop hot spots where the flame touches the pan.  Yes, they do heat more quickly than CI.  That being said, thinner CI pans such as Griswold pans also had hot spots.  Cast iron is a poor heat conductor.  Thicker CI must be pre-heated long enough to let the heat spread more evenly in the pan.  But the same is true of aluminum and copper pans, as they give up their heat as easily as they absorb it from the cooking source.  When cold food is added, it quickly cools the metal of thinner pans, and the spots that are touching the heat source remain the hottest points.  On a commercial stove, the flame pattern is designed to touch as much of the pan surface as possible.  This just isn't the same with home burners.   The other reason people love CI is that it is very durable, and easy to care for.  It never needs to be tinned.

I have a high-carbon steel, flat-bottomed wok that is a great cooking tool, and is as non-stick as are my CI pans.  But the wok suffers much more from hot spots that does my Wagner and Lodge CI pans.  For light duty cooking, such as frying an egg, or making an English Muffin, my Griswold CI pans work very well.  My SS pan with the encapsulated bottom is also a very useful pan, and is nearly as easy to care for as are my CI pans.  But things stick to it more readily, even when I'm doing everything right.

Unless aluminum pans are seasoned properly, or coated in some kind of non-stick, be it ceramic, or teflon, foods stick, and react quickly  to the metal, especially foods that are acidic or alkali.

The largest drawback to CI is its weight.  I can't imagine trying to manhandle a CI pan to flip foods, using the pan.  Plus, CI isn't constructed in the proper shapes to do such things.

The restaurant environment is set up for fast production.  The home kitchen usually isn't.  I can make things in my kitchen that would be difficult to replicate in a restaurant kitchen.  But there are foods that a restaurant kitchen can do that I can't, as I don't have all of the same tools or appliances.

Comparing CI to other metals used in cooking is simply comparing apples to oranges.  Each is good, but has different aspects that make it good.

Remember always that it is the heat that does the work.  With a simple stick, strong twine, and a hearth, you can roast a perfect turkey.  But it's more easily done in the oven, or on the grill as there is less mess to clean up, and less fussing you have to do with the bird.  Pots, pans, burners, ovens, are simply tools that allow us to use the heat more efficiently.  Arguing about which pan is the best is to me, just silly.  Each kind has a function, and will cook food, albeit with a little different technique than the other.

Trust me, I can make really good food in most of the various types of pots and pans out there.  And I can seriously destroy what could have been a great meal by inattention, or improper use of the pot or pan.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


----------



## Roll_Bones

I prefer aluminum over CI any day.  Of course I have been saying this over and over again.
But it is true about professionals using thinner pans than most people use at home.
I tend to lean on heavier AL as it reacts very quickly and prefer it over CI and SS. In fact I don't own a single SS fry/saute pan.


----------



## CStanford

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> The problem with mineral pans, or thin SS pans is that they develop hot spots where the flame touches the pan.  Yes, they do heat more quickly than CI.  That being said, thinner CI pans such as Griswold pans also had hot spots.  Cast iron is a poor heat conductor.  Thicker CI must be pre-heated long enough to let the heat spread more evenly in the pan.  But the same is true of aluminum and copper pans, as they give up their heat as easily as they absorb it from the cooking source.  When cold food is added, it quickly cools the metal of thinner pans, and the spots that are touching the heat source remain the hottest points.  On a commercial stove, the flame pattern is designed to touch as much of the pan surface as possible.  This just isn't the same with home burners.   The other reason people love CI is that it is very durable, and easy to care for.  It never needs to be tinned.
> 
> I have a high-carbon steel, flat-bottomed wok that is a great cooking tool, and is as non-stick as are my CI pans.  But the wok suffers much more from hot spots that does my Wagner and Lodge CI pans.  For light duty cooking, such as frying an egg, or making an English Muffin, my Griswold CI pans work very well.  My SS pan with the encapsulated bottom is also a very useful pan, and is nearly as easy to care for as are my CI pans.  But things stick to it more readily, even when I'm doing everything right.
> 
> Unless aluminum pans are seasoned properly, or coated in some kind of non-stick, be it ceramic, or teflon, foods stick, and react quickly  to the metal, especially foods that are acidic or alkali.
> 
> The largest drawback to CI is its weight.  I can't imagine trying to manhandle a CI pan to flip foods, using the pan.  Plus, CI isn't constructed in the proper shapes to do such things.
> 
> The restaurant environment is set up for fast production.  The home kitchen usually isn't.  I can make things in my kitchen that would be difficult to replicate in a restaurant kitchen.  But there are foods that a restaurant kitchen can do that I can't, as I don't have all of the same tools or appliances.
> 
> Comparing CI to other metals used in cooking is simply comparing apples to oranges.  Each is good, but has different aspects that make it good.
> 
> Remember always that it is the heat that does the work.  With a simple stick, strong twine, and a hearth, you can roast a perfect turkey.  But it's more easily done in the oven, or on the grill as there is less mess to clean up, and less fussing you have to do with the bird.  Pots, pans, burners, ovens, are simply tools that allow us to use the heat more efficiently.  Arguing about which pan is the best is to me, just silly.  Each kind has a function, and will cook food, albeit with a little different technique than the other.
> 
> Trust me, I can make really good food in most of the various types of pots and pans out there.  And I can seriously destroy what could have been a great meal by inattention, or improper use of the pot or pan.
> 
> Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North



All pans are hot right under the flame.  Every single one regardless of the quality of the hob. It's simple physics.  Moreover, that's where you cook the food.  If that spot is too hot, you turn the flame down.  You don't manage the process by worrying about what the temp is out near the edge. You're unlikely to ruin product out there, if it's even out there in the first place (more on that below).  

Most every home chef keeps food in the pan too long, usually at too low a temp, and crowds the pan instead of cooking the food in series.  If I'm doing a chicken saute' with eight pieces, at the browning step I'm putting two pieces in a ten or eleven inch skillet at a time and that's it.  They'll all go back in the pan later with the liquid.  I couldn't care less what the temp of the pan is at the eight or nine inch diameter mark.  There's no real reason to.  You can cook the product in series faster than you can by throwing three, four, or five pieces in.  And you can cook it perfectly -- you have fewer items in the pan to watch and they're sitting right in the middle of the pan over that gorgeous blue flame.  

Try it.  Promise you'll like it.  It renders nine-tenths of the stuff people worry and pontificate about totally moot.


----------



## CStanford

Roll_Bones said:


> I prefer aluminum over CI any day.  Of course I have been saying this over and over again.
> But it is true about professionals using thinner pans than most people use at home.
> I tend to lean on heavier AL as it reacts very quickly and prefer it over CI and SS. In fact I don't own a single SS fry/saute pan.



Aluminum cooks damned well.  It can lend an off flavor and color to sauces and pan reductions though.  For straight browning, nothing really beats it.


----------



## CStanford

GotGarlic said:


> That's just silly. No one who cooks regularly with cast iron thinks the seasoning makes the food taste better. It makes the pan non-stick.
> 
> Cast iron has a lot of great uses in a home kitchen. What's appropriate in a commercial kitchen isn't relevant.



It makes the pan nonstick alright but at a cost.  Do the water test.


----------



## GotGarlic

CStanford said:


> It makes the pan nonstick alright but at a cost.  Do the water test.



I don't care to, thank you. Any residue that might be in the pan was pretty delicious when I ate the meal it came from, so I'm not concerned about it being incorporated into the next savory thing I make. That's why I said it was a silly thing to suggest. 

Many of us here are pretty experienced home cooks and don't really need instruction on how to use and care for our equipment. And I went to culinary school for a couple of months (had to withdraw for medical reasons) so I'm familiar with the needs of a restaurant kitchen.


----------



## Lance Bushrod

I use dish soap all the time and have never had a problem. 
After washing wipe dry with a towel, no problem.

I use canola stray all the time; every so often fry fish
using canola or peanut oil and the skillets look great.


----------



## taxlady

I have been cautious about over-crowding the pan when browning, for many, many years. A friend of mine is a chef. When he helped me in the kitchen, he put loads more chunks of meat on the pan than I ever would. He also had the heat on my electric stove turned to max and it was faster than what I was used to. BTW, with an electric stove, most of my pots and pans are completely sitting on the heating element. It isn't hotter in the centre. One of the large burners has a hot spot near the edge at the 2 o'clock position.


----------



## CStanford

If you have a defective burner then you have to work around that.  What would you do if you got a new stove?  Otherwise, the food gets cooked in the strike zone not high and outside.  We're trying to hit a home run here not foul one off behind the plate.


----------



## CStanford

GotGarlic said:


> I don't care to, thank you. Any residue that might be in the pan was pretty delicious when I ate the meal it came from, so I'm not concerned about it being incorporated into the next savory thing I make. That's why I said it was a silly thing to suggest.
> 
> Many of us here are pretty experienced home cooks and don't really need instruction on how to use and care for our equipment. And I went to culinary school for a couple of months (had to withdraw for medical reasons) so I'm familiar with the needs of a restaurant kitchen.



Oh well, it's still there as sure as the sun rises in the east.  I'm not suggesting a way to care for the equipment because there is virtually nothing you can do to prevent this phenomenon, mine is just a test to show you what CI throws off every time you cook in it.  This is the source of flavor ghosting and a house flavor.  The pan remembers everything you cook in it and serves it back to you.  Carbon steel does it too, but to a much, much smaller degree.


----------



## Aunt Bea

Pontificate is a wonderful word, I love the way it rolls off the tongue, thanks CStanford!


----------



## taxlady

CStanford said:


> If you have a defective burner then you have to work around that.  What would you do if you got a new stove?  Otherwise, the food gets cooked in the strike zone not high and outside.  We're trying to hit a home run here not foul one off behind the plate.


The hot spot isn't that bad. I turn the pot. Sometimes I use it to advantage. It's easy to work around, just like you work with your hot spot in the middle of your pans. 

And when I use CI and turn the pot, it really makes no difference, since the CI heats and cools more slowly.


----------



## CStanford

Oh well, people talk about hot spots like something's wrong.  Nothing is wrong, that's where the food goes!  Don't put it around the outside of the pan like petals on daisy.  It looks as stupid as it is.  

If through some quirk of material physics some isolated spot near the outside of the pan manages to get hotter than where the flame is then that's a pan you should unload.  I've personally never seen it.  Ever.  But I suppose it could happen.

Happy Cooking.  Heat is good!  

Cheers,

Pope Charlie


----------



## taxlady

CStanford said:


> Oh well, people talk about hot spots like something's wrong.  Nothing is wrong, that's where the food goes!  Don't put it around the outside of the pan like petals on daisy.  It looks as stupid as it is.
> 
> If through some quirk of material physics some isolated spot near the outside of the pan manages to get hotter than where the flame is then that's a pan you should unload.  I've personally never seen it.  Ever.  But I suppose it could happen.
> 
> Happy Cooking.  Heat is good!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Pope Charlie


My first thought was that it was the pan. Then I remembered that it was  always in the same place relative to the stove and on every pot. No  flame on my electric stove, when things are working right.


----------



## CStanford

taxlady said:


> My first thought was that it was the pan. Then I remembered that it was  always in the same place relative to the stove and on every pot. No  flame on my electric stove, when things are working right.



Well, don't throw anything out based on how it performs on an electric eye.


----------



## taxlady

CStanford said:


> Well, don't throw anything out based on how it performs on an electric eye.


It's not a big enough problem to even go to the bother of replacing the element. It's one of those older stoves with spiral shaped "burners".


----------



## Chief Longwind Of The North

My whole reason for introducing the ideas of hot spots was to show that for many recipes, hot spots are not good.  If you want to gently simmer a rich sauce or gravy, and you can't be watching the pot constantly because there are other things to be done, hot spots can cause the sauce or gravy to burn at just that spot, ruining the whole pot.  Also, when searing a large chunk of flat meat, such as a porterhouse, hot spots can cause a portion of the meat to overcook, or even scorch before the rest of the meat is cooked to the desired temp.  It has nothing to do with placing your food where the flame isn't, such as the outside rim of the pan.

With my gas stove, the flame comes out the side of the burner and bends upwards in a ring.  It then travels to the outside of the pan, and up the sides.  That's simple physics.  Hot air rises and will continue to do so until it escapes its confines, i.e., the middle of the pan.  Hence, the center of the pan is cooler than where the flame first touches the pan, and then travels outwards.  There are devices that help spread the heat across the whole pan or pot bottom.  These are known as diffusers, and help eliminate hot spots to promote more even temperatures along the entire cooking surface, thereby cooking the food more evenly.

The idea that hot spots are good is absurd.  Hot spots make cooking things like rice, beans, sauces, flat pieces of meat, stews, etc. difficult.  Ever find a bit of scorched food in the bottom of a chili pot?  That scorched flavor will permeate the whole of the product, making it less desirable, or even, if scorched enough, inedible.

As for your statement about putting foods around the outside of a pan like the petals of a daisy, and calling that stupid, that is somewhat condescending, and is at times, just plain wrong.  With my wok, I regularly use the hot spot, the very flat, and center part of the pan, to quickly stir-fry the food, moving it to the cooler slopes of the sides, where the heat is much milder and won't overcook the food, but will still keep it warm, as I add more ingredients to the recipe.  I have been known to do such things by keeping the flame lower, and using the pan sides of my 11 in CI pans to do the same thing.

Ever try to cook English Muffins in a dry pan, with hot spots?  It doesn't work well, same with pizza.

You may know something about the type/style of cooking that you do.  But there are so many techniques out there that you don't have a prayer at knowing them all.  I invite you to discuss your opinions intelligently, giving, and taking from the discussion.  That's why we discuss things, to help each other, and to learn from each other.  But I promise you, that if you try to force your opinions and ideas upon everyone, and not listen to the responses, people will stop discussing things.  I, for one, won't be dictated to.  I have engineering knowledge, a scientific background, 40 years of cooking experience, and an intense desire to know how, and why things work.  I know a lot about cooking, a significant amount about physical properties of materials, and how food reacts, and understand that there are people in this forum that know significantly more than I do.  I am constantly learning new things here, and sharing things that I learn with others.

Remember, there is never a reason to call someone else's idea stupid.  The name of this site is DiscussCooking, not - _I am the only good cook on the site_.  You may disagree with something that someone has said.  When that happens, it is your responsibility to argue your viewpoint, politely, with substantive fact to back up your ideas.  There may even be times when you are absolutely correct, but can not convince someone else.  Then, you just politely walk away.  Where there is contention, no one learns anything, and pride rules.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


----------



## GotGarlic

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> My whole reason for introducing the ideas of hot spots was to show that for many recipes, hot spots are not good.  If you want to gently simmer a rich sauce or gravy, and you can't be watching the pot constantly because there are other things to be done, hot spots can cause the sauce or gravy to burn at just that spot, ruining the whole pot.  Also, when searing a large chunk of flat meat, such as a porterhouse, hot spots can cause a portion of the meat to overcook, or even scorch before the rest of the meat is cooked to the desired temp.  It has nothing to do with placing your food where the flame isn't, such as the outside rim of the pan.
> 
> With my gas stove, the flame comes out the side of the burner and bends upwards in a ring.  It then travels to the outside of the pan, and up the sides.  That's simple physics.  Hot air rises and will continue to do so until it escapes its confines, i.e., the middle of the pan.  Hence, the center of the pan is cooler than where the flame first touches the pan, and then travels outwards.  There are devices that help spread the heat across the whole pan or pot bottom.  These are known as diffusers, and help eliminate hot spots to promote more even temperatures along the entire cooking surface, thereby cooking the food more evenly.
> 
> The idea that hot spots are good is absurd.  Hot spots make cooking things like rice, beans, sauces, flat pieces of meat, stews, etc. difficult.  Ever find a bit of scorched food in the bottom of a chili pot?  That scorched flavor will permeate the whole of the product, making it less desirable, or even, if scorched enough, inedible.
> 
> As for your statement about putting foods around the outside of a pan like the petals of a daisy, and calling that stupid, that is somewhat condescending, and is at times, just plain wrong.  With my wok, I regularly use the hot spot, the very flat, and center part of the pan, to quickly stir-fry the food, moving it to the cooler slopes of the sides, where the heat is much milder and won't overcook the food, but will still keep it warm, as I add more ingredients to the recipe.  I have been known to do such things by keeping the flame lower, and using the pan sides of my 11 in CI pans to do the same thing.
> 
> Ever try to cook English Muffins in a dry pan, with hot spots?  It doesn't work well, same with pizza.
> 
> You may know something about the type/style of cooking that you do.  But there are so many techniques out there that you don't have a prayer at knowing them all.  I invite you to discuss your opinions intelligently, giving, and taking from the discussion.  That's why we discuss things, to help each other, and to learn from each other.  But I promise you, that if you try to force your opinions and ideas upon everyone, and not listen to the responses, people will stop discussing things.  I, for one, won't be dictated to.  I have engineering knowledge, a scientific background, 40 years of cooking experience, and an intense desire to know how, and why things work.  I know a lot about cooking, a significant amount about physical properties of materials, and how food reacts, and understand that there are people in this forum that know significantly more than I do.  I am constantly learning new things here, and sharing things that I learn with others.
> 
> Remember, there is never a reason to call someone else's idea stupid.  The name of this site is DiscussCooking, not - _I am the only good cook on the site_.  You may disagree with something that someone has said.  When that happens, it is your responsibility to argue your viewpoint, politely, with substantive fact to back up your ideas.  There may even be times when you are absolutely correct, but can not convince someone else.  Then, you just politely walk away.  Where there is contention, no one learns anything, and pride rules.
> 
> Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North



+1. Eloquently stated, as usual, Chief


----------



## CraigC

+2 Chief. Besides anyone who watches or has watched Hell's Kitchen, knows that the cooks in these high end type restaurants, only need to concentrate on one, maybe two items, not the whole meal as we home cooks have to. Besides, cooking is supposed to be enjoyable, not something to deal with under the relentless "whip" of some arrogant head chef, trying to win those "stars". Michelin Stars mean buffalo chips to me.


----------



## CStanford

Cook in middle of the pan where the bloody heat is, put a couple products down in the pan, cook product on high(er) heat than you may be used to (not always, but generally), remove product to warm platter, cook next round.

If you feel like it, cook in two 10" pans simultaneously but always, always cook in the middle of the pan.  Don't put product in a circle around the outer diameter of the pan where it bakes off the side of the pan and/or gets steamed on the side closest to the edge of the pan. This can give the product a tough, chewy side.  If you just can't resist this then make sure you use a slope-sided skillet, the more severe the slope the better.

Promise it'll work.


----------



## Addie

CStanford said:


> Cook in middle of the pan where the bloody heat is, put a couple products down in the pan, cook product on high(er) heat than you may be used to (not always, but generally), remove product to warm platter, cook next round.
> 
> If you feel like it, cook in two 10" pans simultaneously but always, always cook in the middle of the pan.  Don't put product in a circle around the outer diameter of the pan where it bakes off the side of the pan and/or gets steamed on the side closest to the edge of the pan. This can give the product a tough, chewy side.  If you just can't resist this then make sure you use a slope-sided skillet, the more severe the slope the better.
> 
> Promise it'll work.



Okay. We get the message. You just seem hell bent on convincing everyone that your knowledge is more superior to every member of this forum. We are home cooks, not restaurant chefs with so many Michelin Stars. The "Gee Mom/Dad, that meal was great" is what makes our day. We don't expect anyone to send back a note with a generous tip to the kitchen for the cook on how great the meal was. 

We have the appliances and equipment that we can afford. Most of us are using what we bought or received as gifts when we were first starting out as cooks or newlyweds. Over the years we may replace some of those appliances or equipment as our income increases. We seek the advice of friends on what to purchase. Some of us even have our grandparents kitchen equipment that has been passed down. I still have my grandmother's wire pastry blender. A grandmother's cast iron pan is most likely the most treasured item in a kitchen. Go down south to any local restaurant that is known for their fried chicken. You most likely will find that they make it in an old cast iron pan. 

I no longer have my cast iron pan. Only because it became too heavy for my arthritic hands to pick up. It was my grandmother's. My daughter now has it. Fourth generation. The majority of cast iron pans found in today's home kitchen have a history. And they are dearly loved. Happy memories are always there when those pans hit the stove top!


----------



## taxlady

CStanford said:


> Cook in middle of the pan where the bloody heat is, put a couple products down in the pan, cook product on high(er) heat than you may be used to (not always, but generally), remove product to warm platter, cook next round.
> 
> If you feel like it, cook in two 10" pans simultaneously but always, always cook in the middle of the pan.  Don't put product in a circle around the outer diameter of the pan where it bakes off the side of the pan and/or gets steamed on the side closest to the edge of the pan. This can give the product a tough, chewy side.  If you just can't resist this then make sure you use a slope-sided skillet, the more severe the slope the better.
> 
> Promise it'll work.


This is not even true on an electric range. (Let's just forget the one element on my stove that has a hot spot, I still have three elements that work as expected.) The entire bottom of my pans sit on the heating element. The middle is no hotter than the edges.


----------



## Roll_Bones

CStanford said:


> Aluminum cooks damned well.  It can lend an off flavor and color to sauces and pan reductions though.  For straight browning, nothing really beats it.



In what way can AL add or subtract and flavor?



CStanford said:


> Oh well, people talk about hot spots like something's wrong.  Nothing is wrong, that's where the food goes!  Don't put it around the outside of the pan like petals on daisy.  It looks as stupid as it is.
> 
> If through some quirk of material physics some isolated spot near the outside of the pan manages to get hotter than where the flame is then that's a pan you should unload.  I've personally never seen it.  Ever.  But I suppose it could happen.
> 
> Happy Cooking.  Heat is good!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Pope Charlie



There is a school of thought regarding electric burners.  One school of thought is if its bad in any way or manner it will not work at all.
Meaning, these hot spots are actually where the pan and the burner make the very best contact.  I was and still do believe that a electric burner cannot be partially good.  It either heats up or it doesn't.
But:

Not so long ago, I notice my electric oven was not getting up to temperature.  Guess what?  It was the element.
So evidently, current is able to pass through the element in a reduced _*or *_overly high fashion should the element/burner still be intact.
Reason: Its not a light bulb and can still partially allow current to flow with no regard to the wattage or the voltage provided the electrical path is still present.
I learned a lesson on the oven element.  But it was bad and could not be use to cook anything.  It could have been used to keep something warm though.



taxlady said:


> This is not even true on an electric range. (Let's just forget the one element on my stove that has a hot spot, I still have three elements that work as expected.) The entire bottom of my pans sit on the heating element. The middle is no hotter than the edges.



I have an experiment, if you're up for it.  Move the burner that has a hot spot to another location on the range top.  Lets see if this hot spot follows the burner or is it possibly not a burner issue?
I am very curious as to your findings!
Should this hot spot follow the burner, I would be quite surprised.


----------



## dcSaute

?In what way can AL add or subtract and flavor?

depends on exactly what one means by "aluminum pan"

a naked aluminum pan can, according to some taste buds, impart a metallic twang to the food - especially acidic stuff cooked for longer than fried eggs, for example.
in a similar vein, some taste buds mention they can taste a metallic flavor from cooking in cast iron.

anodized aluminum or aluminum with non-stick coating(s) is not apt to impart any taste as the aluminum metal (which btw is very reactive) is 'sealed' from direct contact with the food.  methinks the same line of sealed thought applies to well seasoned cast iron.

it's a bit like baking powder - there are multiple chemical approaches to making a double acting baking powder.  one is aluminum salt based.  and, my taste buds pick up on that 'off flavor' if there is enough baking powder in the recipe.  so funny me, I use Rumford (others exist) - which is Al free and doesn't impart the twang in my biscuits....


----------



## taxlady

Roll_Bones said:


> ...
> 
> I have an experiment, if you're up for it.  Move the burner that has a hot spot to another location on the range top.  Lets see if this hot spot follows the burner or is it possibly not a burner issue?
> I am very curious as to your findings!
> Should this hot spot follow the burner, I would be quite surprised.


Good idea, but I think it's the element. Let's see if I remember to do it.


----------



## Roll_Bones

dcSaute said:


> ?In what way can AL add or subtract and flavor?
> 
> depends on exactly what one means by "aluminum pan"
> 
> a naked aluminum pan can, according to some taste buds, impart a metallic twang to the food - especially acidic stuff cooked for longer than fried eggs, for example.
> in a similar vein, some taste buds mention they can taste a metallic flavor from cooking in cast iron.
> 
> anodized aluminum or aluminum with non-stick coating(s) is not apt to impart any taste as the aluminum metal (which btw is very reactive) is 'sealed' from direct contact with the food.  methinks the same line of sealed thought applies to well seasoned cast iron.
> 
> it's a bit like baking powder - there are multiple chemical approaches to making a double acting baking powder.  one is aluminum salt based.  and, my taste buds pick up on that 'off flavor' if there is enough baking powder in the recipe.  so funny me, I use Rumford (others exist) - which is Al free and doesn't impart the twang in my biscuits....



Thank you very much. I must not have good taste buds as i have never noticed.  BTW, I use anodized and bright aluminum.  Can't tell any difference.  But my buds are not what they used to be. 



taxlady said:


> Good idea, but I think it's the element. Let's see if I remember to do it.



I am really interested in your findings. I hope you will try it and post the results.


----------



## CStanford

Roll_Bones said:


> In what way can AL add or subtract and flavor?
> 
> 
> 
> There is a school of thought regarding electric burners.  One school of thought is if its bad in any way or manner it will not work at all.
> Meaning, these hot spots are actually where the pan and the burner make the very best contact.  I was and still do believe that a electric burner cannot be partially good.  It either heats up or it doesn't.
> But:
> 
> Not so long ago, I notice my electric oven was not getting up to temperature.  Guess what?  It was the element.
> So evidently, current is able to pass through the element in a reduced _*or *_overly high fashion should the element/burner still be intact.
> Reason: Its not a light bulb and can still partially allow current to flow with no regard to the wattage or the voltage provided the electrical path is still present.
> I learned a lesson on the oven element.  But it was bad and could not be use to cook anything.  It could have been used to keep something warm though.
> 
> 
> 
> I have an experiment, if you're up for it.  Move the burner that has a hot spot to another location on the range top.  Lets see if this hot spot follows the burner or is it possibly not a burner issue?
> I am very curious as to your findings!
> Should this hot spot follow the burner, I would be quite surprised.



It's all out the window when it comes to electric ranges.  These are just tolerated, rarely preferred.


----------



## CStanford

taxlady said:


> This is not even true on an electric range. (Let's just forget the one element on my stove that has a hot spot, I still have three elements that work as expected.) The entire bottom of my pans sit on the heating element. The middle is no hotter than the edges.



Well, I bet it is but the difference might not be so drastic as a gas range.  What, then, are we to make of this?  Maybe the electric range should be the preferred medium?  I wonder why that hasn't happened.


----------



## taxlady

CStanford said:


> Well, I bet it is but the difference might not be so drastic as a gas range.  What, then, are we to make of this?  Maybe the electric range should be the preferred medium?  I wonder why that hasn't happened.


Heck no, if I had a gas connection at my house, I would have a gas range. I'm just saying that cooking on electric is different from cooking with gas. There are things one needs to do differently depending on which one is using. I'm sure there are even differences between cooking on electric rings and glass top electric stoves. A friend likes electric because she says it's more like cooking on a wood stove.


----------



## CStanford

taxlady said:


> Heck no, if I had a gas connection at my house, I would have a gas range. I'm just saying that cooking on electric is different from cooking with gas. There are things one needs to do differently depending on which one is using. I'm sure there are even differences between cooking on electric rings and glass top electric stoves. A friend likes electric because she says it's more like cooking on a wood stove.



Totally agree.  If you have electric and can match up pan size to the element's size then it might not be a totally bad experience.


----------



## dcSaute

I survived 18 years of electric cooking, and I didn't even get a t-shirt.

electric coils do not respond as quickly as turning the knob on a gas cooktop.  that's really not hard to understand.  that heating up a pan takes longer on electric coils vs gas flame, yeah - that's true.  deal with it.

the preference for one cooking vessel material vs. another based on how quickly they heat up is, ah.... uhhmmmm.... something.  not sure what.  electric or gas or coal or kerosene or wood fire or induction, , , put the blinking pan on the heat at let it come up to temperature and YES! cast iron might take 2-3 minutes more than aluminum and if that is such a critical issue, one might want to re-examine one's starvation diet plan which leads to the inability to tolerate 2-3 minute delays in eating.

I have some half century+ old Revere Ware, some decades old thick thick aluminum stuff, some century+ old cast iron, and some 3mm thick stainless lined copper.  when I need to cook something it goes on the gas burner, the burner gets lit and runs on low, the pan gets hot.  sometimes it takes me longer to dice/slice (whatever) and I have to take the pan off the heat before I'm ready to start a saute / fry / go cooking crazy.

so all the 'it's faster / it's slower' stuff is actually not of any importance except to the cook who is unaware they want to cook something 5 minutes from now.

hot spots on electric coils exist - I've seen it.  if you've got 7-15 year old electric coils, turn it on high and observe the color brightness of the coil.  some spots are cooler and hence darker.  no big discovery there.

but hot spots / burner size matching only comes into play when using high heat _and_ thin, poor conductor materials.  ye olde' thin stainless - including copper bottom RevereWare is a prime example.  you get the pan hot, you reduce the heat setting to match the task, heat flows, nothing burns.  it's what heat does.


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef

And cast iron is thinking about you, too.


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## Addie

dcSaute said:


> I survived 18 years of electric cooking, and I didn't even get a t-shirt.
> 
> electric coils do not respond as quickly as turning the knob on a gas cooktop.  that's really not hard to understand.  that heating up a pan takes longer on electric coils vs gas flame, yeah - that's true.  deal with it.
> 
> the preference for one cooking vessel material vs. another based on how quickly they heat up is, ah.... uhhmmmm.... something.  not sure what.  electric or gas or coal or kerosene or wood fire or induction, , , put the blinking pan on the heat at let it come up to temperature and YES! cast iron might take 2-3 minutes more than aluminum and if that is such a critical issue, one might want to re-examine one's starvation diet plan which leads to the inability to tolerate 2-3 minute delays in eating.
> 
> *I have some half century+ old Revere Ware, some decades old thick thick aluminum stuff, some century+ old cast iron, and some 3mm thick stainless lined copper.  when I need to cook something it goes on the gas burner, the burner gets lit and runs on low, the pan gets hot.  sometimes it takes me longer to dice/slice (whatever) and I have to take the pan off the heat before I'm ready to start a saute / fry / go cooking crazy.*
> so all the 'it's faster / it's slower' stuff is actually not of any importance except to the cook who is unaware they want to cook something 5 minutes from now.
> 
> hot spots on electric coils exist - I've seen it.  if you've got 7-15 year old electric coils, turn it on high and observe the color brightness of the coil.  some spots are cooler and hence darker.  no big discovery there.
> 
> but hot spots / burner size matching only comes into play when using high heat _and_ thin, poor conductor materials.  ye olde' thin stainless - including copper bottom RevereWare is a prime example.  you get the pan hot, you reduce the heat setting to match the task, heat flows, nothing burns.  it's what heat does.



My mother taught me to cook on a wood burning stove. Place more wood in the stove and take the lid off and place the pan right over the fire. Direct heat. She also cooked with some very thin aluminum pots from the depression days. The kind that the man that came around and repaired any pots with a washer and screw. When she got a gas stove, she still have the same pans. My sister and I bought her a new set. She had a difficult time adjusting to the heat of the gas and the thickness of her pans that took up longer to heat. But she still managed to make some fantastic meals. I still say *it is the cook*, not the pan or stove, or even the type of heat that determines the quality of a meal.


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## Andy M.

All of the above serves to make the point that tools don't make the cook.  If they did, I'd be a better cook. 

If you've cooked on a gas stove all your life and have to switch to an electric stove, You'll adapt.  If you're used to cast iron and switch to carbon steel or non-stick coated, you'll adapt.  People have been adapting for quite a long time.  It's not that hard.


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## taxlady

Andy M. said:


> All of the above serves to make the point that tools don't make the cook.  If they did, I'd be a better cook.
> 
> If you've cooked on a gas stove all your life and have to switch to an electric stove, You'll adapt.  If you're used to cast iron and switch to carbon steel or non-stick coated, you'll adapt.  People have been adapting for quite a long time.  It's not that hard.


True, but you might burn a meal or two while learning the new tools.


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## dcSaute

he who does not learn from experience will burn food forever.


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## Zagut

dcSaute said:


> he who does not learn from experience will burn food forever.


 
So I'm damned to burn't food forever? 

Andy get's it. Adapt.

Food + Heat = Cooking.

The results are on the chef/cook. 

10 chefs = 11 ways to fix it.


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## CStanford

Preaching to the choir.  I have RA in both hands and use a lot of Revere Ware and feel hampered not one bit.  Pre-RA and in kitchens I worked never saw a piece of bare cast iron and not all that much enameled cast iron.  Schooled and apprenticed in Europe.


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## roadfix

.
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## GotGarlic

CStanford said:


> Preaching to the choir.  I have RA in both hands and use a lot of Revere Ware and feel hampered not one bit.  Pre-RA and in kitchens I worked never saw a piece of bare cast iron and not all that much enameled cast iron.  Schooled and apprenticed in Europe.



Don't you think you've gone on enough about this? If you don't want to use cast iron, then fine - don't. But this insistence that your way is the only way shows a dogmatic lack of curiosity and openness to new ideas, not a superiority of training.


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## Addie

GotGarlic said:


> Don't you think you've gone on enough about this? If you don't want to use cast iron, then fine - don't. But this insistence that your way is the only way shows a dogmatic lack of curiosity and openness to new ideas, not a superiority of training.



Thank you. I think everything that could be said, has been. Let's move on. He doesn't like CI, most of the members here do. "Nuf said.


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## RPCookin

Back to the topic:

I may have posted this already but it's buried back in the clutter.  I own 3 pieces of cast iron cookware - 2 dutch ovens, one 5 quart and one 9 quart, both enameled; and the reversible griddle/grillpan that is part of my new GE gas range.  I've only cooked on gas for the last 3½ years of my 68, and my mother started me learning the kitchen little by little from the time I was about 10.

The grill pan is nicely seasoned and is great to cook with, but it does take at least 10 minutes to preheat when using the grill side because you want it smoking hot for proper sear and grill marks.  Even then it's not going to sear like an open flame grill will, but for me that isn't an issue, since I don't particularly care for my steaks and chops to be charred.  

I use the two dutch ovens for all sorts of foods, from soups and stews to braised short ribs and country style ribs.  I use them both on top of the stove and in the oven and they are fantastic and turn out great dishes.

I also have 3 saute/frying pans (8", 12" and 14"), Bakers and Chefs brand, heavy aluminum with nonstick coating and I love all three.  I also have 2 stainless frying pans, a clad Kitchen Aid 10" and a disk bottom Simply Calphalon chicken fryer, 12" x 3" deep.  I know how to make every one of them work to cook the foods I want to prepare in them.  Yes, it's true that they take different approaches to accomplish the tasks that I assign to them, but that's good, because different foods often have different needs.

All of this squabbling over what works best is pretty senseless.  One thing I've learned from hanging around this place is that there are different ways to get the job done, and people's preferences vary, sometimes considerably.  For some things there certainly are right and wrong ways to prepare them, but for most there are just different approaches all of which work.  We all have different equipment to do the work, and we have different tastes, and differing levels of training, but in the end we are all here because we are passionate about cooking.  

We need to keep focused on our commonality while embracing the differences.  After all, it's discussing those differences that aid in learning.  This would be a pretty boring forum if we all thought and cooked alike.  Not all of us are going to change our preferred methods just because another says their method is better.  What's best for one individual isn't necessarily better for others.  They may have different heat sources, different cookware, and different tastes for the food they prepare.  Different kitchen education from different regions and generations can be a heavy influence.  

Let's all just have fun with cooking, whether it's a vocation or avocation, and enjoy the diversity.


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## puffin3

Addie said:


> My mother taught me to cook on a wood burning stove. Place more wood in the stove and take the lid off and place the pan right over the fire. Direct heat. She also cooked with some very thin aluminum pots from the depression days. The kind that the man that came around and repaired any pots with a washer and screw. When she got a gas stove, she still have the same pans. My sister and I bought her a new set. She had a difficult time adjusting to the heat of the gas and the thickness of her pans that took up longer to heat. But she still managed to make some fantastic meals. I still say *it is the cook*, not the pan or stove, or even the type of heat that determines the quality of a meal.


I too learned how to cook on a wood stove.
My mother was a superb home cook.
We also had thin pans from the Depression days.
I have the old heavy CI pot with lid.


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## roadfix

My favorite cast irons are the large, heavy griddles.   Whether square or round I use them as a comal every taco Tuesday!   I actually use the 14" round flat griddle a lot.

Here's proof:


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## PrincessFiona60

*Okay...*

Now the thread is closed.


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