# Legsbig Hotsauce - Free Samples Soon



## Mylegsbig (Sep 7, 2006)

I bought an awesome Hattori 4" Petty, this knife as it is the perfect knife for my new hotsauce business in which i will be cutting thousands of habaneros and chipotles..which i will be offering free samples to members here in 2 weeks. I will be offering 5 free bottles of my delicious sauce...out of all the hotsauces ive tasted (probably 40-50) mine is the most delicious. my girlfriend even eats it and she HATES hotsauce. I gave a sample to my bro and he didnt believe I made it


 Here are the non secret ingredients. ( i wont list my secrets )



 Red Choice Hand Picked Habaneros
 Real Chipotles (not purple ones)
 Honey
 Chile Pequin Flakes
 Rice Vinegar
 Tequila

 Sea Salt
 Lime
 Coarse Cracked Tellicherry indian peppercorns
 Roasted Garlic
















 I have this recipe down to 1/8ths of teaspoon proportions and have already sent out 4 sample bottles. Will have reviews on Sunday.  This sauce is only 1 month mash my sauces i sell in my business will be 6 month mash.




 Will ship Priority mail to 5 hot sauce lovers here, people who are familar with sauces and the ingredients listed and can help comment on any tweaks i can make.




 (I have already been tweaking it for a month)



 If you are a respected member here whom i've associated with and have a knowledge and pallette to enjoy and analyze a hot sauce, i will make you one of the 5.



 I'd like to send some to Andy already, if he'll have it.  Warning, this sauce is very hot, but slow burn hot, not chemical, and incredibly delicious.

Only thing i ask, is it cost 5 dollars to ship it priority mail with packaging, actually more like 6. I will print a receipt if you like and post it.



 If you enjoy the sauce, i'd appreciate you send the postage to my paypal


  But you are not required to


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## VickiQ (Sep 7, 2006)

I just would like to wish you TONS of luck on your new venture and I hope it is everything you want it to be!!!!!Love and energy, Vicki


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## SizzlininIN (Sep 7, 2006)

Good Luck Legs!


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## jennyema (Sep 7, 2006)

I'd love to taste it!

PM me any details.

Tequila .... yum.


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## pdswife (Sep 7, 2006)

Good luck!
I'd offer to help but... hot spice and I just don't get along too
well.

Let me know when you have a very mild version.

smiles, T


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## vagriller (Sep 7, 2006)

MLB,
I would like to try some. It would be good to send to people that could share with other DC members in their local region. You'd get more bang for the buck that way. I could share with TATTRAT, or vice versa if he is cool with that. I'm not as into hotsauce as I used to be, but still like it in chili and many other things.


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## The Z (Sep 7, 2006)

Sign me up MLB!

PM me if I am selected.

Z.


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## kitchenelf (Sep 7, 2006)

If there's any left sign me up too!  I love a hot sauce wtih that slow heat and lots of flavor!  They are truly hard to find.  

PM me when you need details.


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## kimbaby (Sep 7, 2006)

Good Luck On Your Venture
Much Sucess To You


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 7, 2006)

Jenny, Vagriller, Kitchenelf, The Z, and Andy if he shows up. that's it sorry folks. already mailed out 5 other samples on another forum i hang out at.

hey - question, besides setting up a stand at my flea market in the valley 

(hehe no rent, own the land, no overhead, as no air conditioning, and fiancee is going to sell)

what is the best way to sell this stuff on the internet? I understand i cannot shill here, is there any way i can pay for an ad here once i get established? or sell to members one on one through emails and private messages?

I really have something special on my hands. this stuff is no joke.


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## Chef_Jen (Sep 7, 2006)

Not to put a damper on your parade.. I love hot sauce however...

There are many laws in the state of texas i spent a lot of time there.. Firstly in order to sell a food product you should really look at the licences you need. Im fairly certain you cant make stuff in your kitchen and sell it.

Also You will need insurance liability etc before you go shipping your stuff gosh forbid someone got sick.. maybe due to postal handling etc it will still come back to you!

anyway you may want to contact your local office to see what licencing you need. I know personal chefs etc need licences and things being sold for retail cant be made in your home kitchen


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## Chef_Jen (Sep 7, 2006)

Oh wait here is a website it explains ALLLL the laws i mean did you know your lable has to be a certain size????

http://www.tdh.state.tx.us/bfds/foods/default.htm

ya you need a manufactures licence it looks like...


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 7, 2006)

Chef Jen, i wont need any of that junk to sell some online to people right?

I mean before i open an actual business.

which of these will i need for my business?
*
RETAIL *

                                         Retail Food Operation - Childcare-School-Roadside Vendor-Mobile              Food Vendor - Initial, Renewal, or Change of Ownership (including              legal entity)                                     
​                                          Retail Food Operation - Childcare-School-Roadside Vendor-Mobile              Food Vendor - Minor Amendment Change (Name, Address)                                     
​                                          Retail Food Operation - Food Establishment-Food Store              - Initial, Renewal, or Change of Ownership (including legal entity                                     
​                                          Retail Food Operation - Food Establishment-Food Store              - Minor Amendment Change (Name, Address)                                     
​                                          Retail Temporary Food Establishment - Single Event                                     
​                                          Retail Temporary Food Establishment - Multiple Events                                                                               

Mobile Food Vendor Checklist                                      
​                                          Certified Food Manager - Certification                                      
​                                          Certified Food Manager - Recertification                                      
​                                          Certified Food Manager - Test-Site


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## Half Baked (Sep 7, 2006)

> Chef Jen, i wont need any of that junk to sell some online to people right?
> 
> I mean before i open an actual business.


 
I wouldn't sell anything to anybody without liability insurance.


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 7, 2006)

i'd lose any profit i'd make. like 10 people die of botulism every year and no one has ever died of botulism from pepper mash as far as i know

how much does it cost? I have money..i will eat the medical bills if they get sick(they won't, im almost medically sterile)


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## FryBoy (Sep 7, 2006)

Mylegsbig said:
			
		

> Chef Jen, i wont need any of that junk to sell some online to people right?


 
Actually, you'll need even more because you'll be engaged in interstate commerce, which brings the feds down on you, and you'll need to comply with the laws of any state to which you ship the stuff. Just ask the folks in the wine business. 

If you're serious about this, I very strongly suggest that you consult a lawyer who specializes in retail food production and sales. Once you go commercial, it ain't fun and games no more!


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## TexasTamale (Sep 7, 2006)

You got some "homework" to do bigleg....
(and lotza "footwork" if you are serious)

Peeps here cannot lay out a plan "for you"...
Chef_Jen gave you LOTZ of "good advice". start there.

Good Luck! your mash ingredients sound delicious.


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## FryBoy (Sep 7, 2006)

BTW, have you run the numbers on this? I assume you have because you strike me as a pretty bright guy, but your enthusiasm may have caused you to overlook the reality of entering a very crowded market (see www.mohotta.com, for example). 

If it costs you $1 to make a bottle, including the ingredients, energy, bottle, label, packaging, insurance, transportation, storage, postage (if you sell on the Internet), and other costs of production and promotion, and if you sell it for $6 a bottle, you make $5 on every sale. To make a very modest living of say $25K per year, you would have to sell 5,000 bottles, almost 100 per week. 

How much time would it take to make that much? Include buying the ingredients, chopping the peppers, roasting, mixing, cooking, straining, bottling, labeling, packaging, transporting, selling, bookkeeping, etc. etc. You very well might be working for less than minimum wage.

Lastly, don't forget that your profits are taxable income, and tax evasion is a federal felony.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I hate to see people go into business with their eyes closed, only to discover too late that it takes more than a good product and high enthusiasm to make a go of it.


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 7, 2006)

paying all of these lawyers and agencies and then permits and then normal people would have to lease land and then get a staff and pay other bills how in the **** are you suppsed to make money?  If my sauce is REALLY GOOD,i mean REALLY GOOD, how many units you think i can move a week online? just through the reviews i get on this forum and another one, mma.tv, which has thousands of active members


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 7, 2006)

FryBoy said:
			
		

> BTW, have you run the numbers on this? I assume you have because you strike me as a pretty bright guy, but your enthusiasm may have caused you to overlook the reality of entering a very crowded market (see www.mohotta.com, for example).
> 
> If it costs you $1 to make a bottle, including the ingredients, energy, bottle, label, packaging, insurance, transportation, storage, postage (if you sell on the Internet), and other costs of production and promotion, and if you sell it for $6 a bottle, you make $5 on every sale. To make a very modest living of say $25K per year, you would have to sell 5,000 bottles, almost 100 per week.
> 
> ...



i think the flea market might be my best bet and just little deals here and there with people online. i shipped 5 bottles and get any permits or any feds involved or anything.

Any idea on how to make the flea market thing profitable? there are around 200-250 vendors there, on 17 acres. it's in mcallen tx on border of mexico.

I was thinking over there they wont pay no 6 dollars for a sauce, so i was thinking hiring one of our workers sons to do the brunt work, and just pump out TONS OF JARS of a chipotle sauce.

i was thinking this.

Chipotle Peppers(real ones)
dried Tepin peppers
Adobo Powder
Molasses
Lime Juice
Tequila
Sea Salt
Toasted Cumin Seed
Roasted Garlic
50%Sterilized chipotle liquid from reconstituting/50% Rice vinegar

would that be too hot to sell large volume? 

selling it in bigger jars, because mexican familes tend to be large and it will go fast.  Im thinking i could also sell it in plastic maybe? I found a company in europe that will sell me 5oz for 49 cents each glass.

Or how about hitting up clubs in mexico, and buying the corona bottles that are empty? i could easily scrape the corona label off with goo-gone and a knife.

Will plastic sell at all? even at a flea market? Weve owned the place for 20 years and most of our vendors have been there the whole time..world would get around quick that it is good.


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## Half Baked (Sep 7, 2006)

> i will eat the medical bills if they get sick(they won't, im almost medically sterile)


 
That's gracious of you but they'd probably take you house, property, car, 1/2 of you salary forever and first born child...in addition to the the medical bills.  

I think quite a few of us here have started businesses.  It sounds like fun but just the paperwork and dealing with the government is overwhelming.  The fines, taxes and penalties are retroactive if you get caught without the licenses.  

We had a lawyer and an accountant and I still had tons of paperwork to supply them the information so they could handle the forms to be turned into the government.

Having a company is not just something to do on the side.  We had the lawyer to wade through the laws and tell us what we could and couldn't do.


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## TexasTamale (Sep 7, 2006)

Mylegsbig said:
			
		

> i think the flea market might be my best bet and just little deals here and there with people online. i shipped 5 bottles and get any permits or any feds involved or anything.
> 
> 
> selling it in bigger jars, because mexican familes tend to be large and it will go fast. Im thinking i could also sell it in plastic maybe? I found a company in europe that will sell me 5oz for 49 cents each glass.
> ...


 
" Large Mexican Family's"  (I kinda take offence to your statement) make their own....it is the best you'll ever have store bought or otherwise.

Corona Bottles with "no permits" sounds unappetizing at best.


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## FryBoy (Sep 7, 2006)

I'd try it! It sounds great to me, and I sort of know you. But one bottle would probably last me for six months to a year, and that's a long, long way from being economically viable. 

You have to figure on making a very small profit on a huge number of sales, like the Tobassco folks, or a huge profit on a few sales -- which isn't too likely given all the choices available. That's why so many extraordinary cooks are content with the praise of their friends and family and maybe an occassional blue ribbon at the county fair. 

But, who knows? If your sauce is really better than the competition, it could become very popular. You'll never know unless you try, but if you try, you need to do it right and to CYA.


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## Chef_Jen (Sep 8, 2006)

*OK im going to say this veryyyyyyyy carefully so please please listen*

In your state it is ILLEGAL to SELL aka ask for money AKA give to other people and recieve money ANY food ((YES this includes sauces there is a WHOLLEE section legally for sauces)) *without obtaining a licence*

You can *not* just pay someones medical bills. If someone gets sick they will SUE you personally for fortunes....Heck without proper labelling warning people its HOT SAUCE.. ((i know ppl are dumb  but remember mcdonalds was sued for their coffee being hot)) they could sue you should thye burn their mouths etc. 

Selling online with OUT a licence is ILLEGAL. I will say it again ILLEGAL. especially if your making your own goods. 

Do yourself a favour go speak to your business advice centre they are FREE call your local health board THEY ARE FREE to speak to they will send you all the forms etc.

Im fairly certain you also have to register your business with the health board 28 days BEFORE opening. 

you can not accept ANY money for your products until you do.

*dont try to cheat the system!!* it will blow up in your face mate.. 

its a very expensive and cr@ppy process


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 8, 2006)

TexasTamale said:
			
		

> " Large Mexican Family's"  (I kinda take offence to your statement) make their own....it is the best you'll ever have store bought or otherwise.
> 
> Corona Bottles with "no permits" sounds unappetizing at best.



you shouldn't take offense to my statement. ive been in texas for 25 years and on the border for 18 years. Mexican families are larger than average. why would that be offensive?


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 8, 2006)

Hmm, ive never heard of cops raiding my flea market hassling vendors unless something really bad went down.

In Edinburgh nearby, some guy got served some food and nearly died but thats all i can recall ever happening.

You have to understand this place is huge. i can give a vendor a free monthly spot in exchange for him to sell my sauce.  No one will get sick because not only are the jars sterilized, they are just red habs and dried herbs, vinegar, tequila, salt. that's not gonna get you sick.

 You have to understand this place is huge. i can give a vendor a free monthly spot in exchange for him to sell my sauceall cash under the table. [edited by administraton because of a political statement that is not allowed on this site]
do you have to have a government license to send out free gifts? to get the quality of your product known?


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## Chef_Jen (Sep 8, 2006)

Ok ive been to texas... use to go there for weeks at a time.. Firstly Flea markets... ALL HAVE VENDOR permits.. and YES you can get sick *very very very*  sick off of sauces. Your answers to this thread (*please dont take offence) *seem to indicate your not ready for this venture nor have you taken the proper steps. Not only that just cause you dont hear about it doesnt mean it doesnt happen I know in texas esp. Houston and FTworth where inspectors go out specifically for markets

Yes I have a licence to cook in my kitchen i also have a Personal Cheffing licence and i get health inspected. on a REGULAR basis. Free is a bit different. Like if was to send my mom some jam i made for an xmas gift thats a bit different then if was selling my jam by the dozens. 

Your ignorance on the fact that no one can get sick just baffles me please read up on food born illnesses. Did you know that one of the leading causes of boci.. is lettuce?? who would have thought right? 

Anyway its not about just people getting sick its about you breaking the law and about you not covering your own butt. What if someone sues you what are you going to do. Your fiance is pregnant and you have a baby on the way.. protect your family.

if your sauce is as good as you say it is Then do it legally the small cost of doing it legally and having peace of mind will be beneficial in the long run and the sauce should pay for itself.....


Oh on a side note *true story* there was a guy on another forum who was thinking of doing something similar to you posted his plans etc... little did he know that a loca health inspector happend to frequent the board and read what he was doing... Needless to say.. He isnt trading his goods he got busted.!


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## Chef_Jen (Sep 8, 2006)

Oh and PS your bottling ideas of putting it in corona bottles is illegal as well.. Corona will not let you do that nor would the health dept..

and containers for europe make sure they are legal food containers in the US as our laws are differnt here


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## ronjohn55 (Sep 8, 2006)

Leg,

I would highly reccomend, if you haven't already, contacting your local SBA (Small Business Admin) office. They are usually closely associated with the state and local universities. 

They will be able to help you map out the nuts and bolts of putting together a small business. This is all generally done for little or NO charge (Many of the workers at these offices are business students who are getting class credit, which is why they can keep the costs down). They will be able to tell you what types of rules and regulations apply to you, and which ones won't. 

They can help you put together a business plan, and as long as you are brutally honest with yourself, they'll be able to help you determine if this is a viable business venture. They can also provide information on the how/what/where of getting start up financing for your operation (grants, investors, loans, etc.). 

John


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## jennyema (Sep 8, 2006)

Half Baked said:
			
		

> I wouldn't sell anything to anybody without liability insurance.


 
Big,

What Jen and 1/2 Baked are telling you is 100% true. You need liability insurance and you need to follow all applicable health and safety laws no matter who you are selling to.

Botulism isn't the issue. You could make someone sick or hurt them in a lot of different ways. Or they could claim you did. *You need insurance and you must follow the law.*

*Please listen to them.* *You could totally ruin your life if you don't.* 

I'm a lawyer (think you know this) and can give you some advice, though I know nothing about the laws in Texas. PM me if you want.


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## jennyema (Sep 8, 2006)

*Plastic?* Plastic reacts with all kinds of substances. Have you ever seen hot sauce sold in plastic? Not a good idea.

*Sea Salt?* Why? It's quite expensive and will be indistiguishable with kosher or table salt in the final product.

*Flea Market?*  Honestly, I would never buy any food product at one.


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## vagriller (Sep 8, 2006)

MLB,
You can do it man! All great accomplishments are at first impossible!


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## BigDog (Sep 8, 2006)

What about a state/county fair? Perhaps something like a Farmer's Market too? Dunno if those are open to other items not directly derived from the land, but you never know.

I agree with everyone else, though. There are an infinite number of hoops to jump through when it comes down to making food products. If you aren't up on them, they're gonna bite you on the backside sooner or later.


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## lulu (Sep 8, 2006)

Hmm.  I would worry about not doing through the correct process.  But I'm sure if you do that and have a viable buisness plan its worth it.  Even if only as a second income.  I join the crowd urging you to check out the legality.  If nothing else, as Chef-Jen pointed out, you never know who is here.  The fact that you discussed all this in an open forum would NOT, I imagine, help your case if someone did decide to prosecute ...whether for the product or you selling it.

Re marketing.  I would buy things that looked "proper" on a stand.  I have been to a couple of car boot sales where people sell stuff that is from a cottage industry.  I would NOT buy stuff from a bottle recognisable as being that of another product.  Producing stuff is hard enough without having to jump through hoops of people worrying about how well those bottles were clean and sterilised.  Its worth the expense of proper jars and printed labels....make it your own and take the credit.  Also, if you are going to charge a "good" profitable price, packaging helps, I would certainly think about paying an otherwise exagerated price for something presented as if its the tops and I think I need it.....I am duped into it all the time my the cosmetics industry, lol.  On the other hand, somethng that looks like a good, but unproven business in second hand bottles I would notice but probably think I could do as well at home..on the if they can do it I can principle.

It is stressful but exciting to start a business.  I am sure you'll get a lot of support from people if you follow the correct channels.  Good luck!


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 8, 2006)

Chef Jen, i never said you couldn't get sick off of sauces. You're saying you can get sick off of a habanero pepper mash mixed with vinegar and dried herbs then sterilized?

No offense but it sounds like you don't know much about chinense's


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## Harborwitch (Sep 8, 2006)

MLB - please listen to Jen!

We went through a big deal here - we have a "season opener" for all the businesses here on the "Loop".  For years we've BBQ'd oysters and served hot wings and waffle fries. Other marinas had hamburgers and hot dogs, deep fried turkeys, crawdads and jambalaya, etc.   This year the Health Inspector found out about all the un-licensed food vendors and out came the pile of paperwork, the price of the permits, and the requirements for food service tents.  She would have to inspect the cooking, food storage, and serving areas.  We just gave it up.  We could do it as a private party - but she'd be lurking and we'd be busted!  It wound up that only restaurants could serve food.  It wrecked a great business generator for all of us - but it just wasn't worth the hassle.  

The real kicker for us . . . . .  the oysters would have to be cooked to 165 degrees!  And the lady meant that we had to check every few to make sure the were at the right temp - and she would be there to check too!!!


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## Half Baked (Sep 8, 2006)

paying all of these lawyers and agencies and then permits and then normal people would have to lease land and then get a staff and pay other bills how in the **** are you suppsed to make money?

_That's why so many small companies fail during the first couple of years. If you don't have 10x the $ that you think you would need to start up, it's very hard to keep up with the government taxes, pay your lawyer/acct, buy your licenses and purchase the insurance. Then you have the costs associated with the company: jars, labels, ingredients, marketing etc_


If my sauce is REALLY GOOD,i mean REALLY GOOD, how many units you think i can move a week online? just through the reviews i get on this forum and another one, mma.tv, which has thousands of active members

_I can tell you really believe in your sauce but don't think you're going to get rich soon. It takes years for a product to catch on. Maybe it is so good that you could get an interview at Heinz or another manufacturer and they'd buy your recipe. I'm not being fasicious at all._

_OMG, there are so many approvals needed. Sometimes you have to pay for your own tests at government approved agencies. I have a 4" binder with all my 'approved' letters from scientists, government (local and national) and universities. _

_You have to collect tax from different states and that in itself is a PITA. You'll need a company checking acct. Never mix company money with your money. _

_There is so much to consider. Forming a company is not something you do talking to friends over a few beers. I agree with the person who suggested you go to the SBA first. They can tell you how to get started legally. _


_I wish you all the luck in the world._


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## Chef_Jen (Sep 8, 2006)

YES YOU CAN.. ok listen to this...

Ketchup is tomatos vinegar salt etc. when left in the sun or not refridgerated it can cause you to be VERY ill look up how many people die from it.. its a lot.

You dont know me from Jack and Yes i know a lot about sauces and  I know a lot about safety Ive had to. Im a qualified chef with licences out that Wazoo. When i opened my bed and breakfast and i do catering and make jams I know the laws and I know what can make you sick

Like i said You are being ignorant and narrowminded ((again no offence) if you think your sauce couldnt make someone sick. Its about shipping.. What if sitting on the delivery truck it BAKES in the sun.. and turns it 

Listen do me a favour just call your local health department. I dont want to argue with you but i dont want to see you on the streets.

Like I said its not just food born illness... Look what hapend to McD's A woman sued voer the fact their Coffee was too hot...imagine if someone does that to you

YOU NEED PROTECTION!


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## Half Baked (Sep 8, 2006)

I posted this just yesterday under "Things that make you smile..."



> I just got through to the Compliance Dept of the Comptroller of MD....been trying for 2 weeks! And I got a kind, sweet, understanding woman who had tons of patience with my ignorant questions.
> 
> Yippee and a HUGE smile here.
> 
> Getting through to the government shouldn't be so difficult.__________________


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## FryBoy (Sep 8, 2006)

Legs,

No one has to get sick from your sauce to sue you -- all they need to do is CLAIM they got sick from it. 

Defending against even a completely frivolous lawsuit can easily cost $25,000! That's one heck of a lot of hot sauce. 

Business is not nice -- it's a cutthroat, adversarial, dog-eat-dog game, and you dare not play without wearing your helmet and cup.


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## Harborwitch (Sep 8, 2006)

MLB  Try this http://www.chilepepper.com/fiery_food_challenge.htm

If your sauce is as good as you say it is start here by entering it in the firey foods challenge!  A lot of "little guys/gals" have entered products here and gone on to glory.  

It's really hard to market a product that you're trying to sell under the table so that you can sneak around the laws and regulations that are there to protect you and your potential customers.  Selling it in used beer bottles is as cheesy an idea as I've ever heard.  

Winning a firey food challenge could be a big step up for you - if your sauce is *good*.  If you don't win you'll know that there's more work to do!  For those of us who love firey foods the designation of "challenge winner" goes a long way to influence what we buy.
Do it right - or just don't do it at all.


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## Andy M. (Sep 8, 2006)

MLB:

I can see your enthusiasm for your product and the eagerness to get it on the market.  That's great, but life just isn't that simple.

Listen to these folks.  There's a ton of good advice here.  Don't get angry because these folks are making things more difficult for you, be encouraged there are all these people who care about your success!

Listen and learn.  Your sauce may be the best there is and sell a ton.  Be prepared that it could also get lost in the sea of different hot sauces on the market today.  It seems everyone has a killer recipe.

So keep at it and recognize that it's not going to happen as quickly as you like but the things you do up front to get ready will go a long way towards getting your product a good chance of success.


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## Half Baked (Sep 8, 2006)

Wow, what a great idea, HarborWitch!

Now that's a brave group of judges....


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## Harborwitch (Sep 8, 2006)

Cool huh!!!  I'd love to enter my Mango Cherry Habanero Salsa - it's to die for, but you can only really make it when fresh cherries are availalbe, it doesn't hold well, and it can't be heat processed.  Shucks!!!  

If MLB can get his sauce past those judges he'll be on his way - hang on tight it'll be a wild ride.


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## bethzaring (Sep 8, 2006)

legs, you need to slow down and do some serious thinking. A lot of excellent advice has been given to you and you are not giving it serious consideration.

What are your plans?............. what is your business plan?...........what are your goals?

Is one goal to make money?

Are you out for the recognition?

Do you want to make the best darn hot sauce in Texas?

What are your goals? If one of your goals is to make money, buddy you are barking up the wrong tree. Food Service is a highly competitive industry and it appears you do not have a background in food service, by the questions you are asking. 

It will be easier to find your direction when you can define your goals.


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 9, 2006)

Chef_Jen said:
			
		

> YES YOU CAN.. ok listen to this...
> 
> Ketchup is tomatos vinegar salt etc. when left in the sun or not refridgerated it can cause you to be VERY ill look up how many people die from it.. its a lot.



I am not talking about tomatoes.  You do realize that different  and plant life attracts different bacteria correct?

 I am talking about habanero peppers. People get sick from habanero pepper mash and die each year? 

*Can you please find me a source that says habanero mash kills alot of people?*


    For some reason only the lacto bacteria(good bacteria) thrive on high capsaicin chinenses peppers like scotch bonnets, fataliis, habaneros, etc, 
​


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## bright (Sep 9, 2006)

Mylegsbig said:
			
		

> I am not talking about tomatoes.  You do realize that different  and plant life attracts different bacteria correct?
> 
> I am talking about habanero peppers. People get sick from habanero pepper mash and die each year?
> 
> ...



You are correct.  Pepper mashes contain lactobacillus (Lactor Bacteria.)  Here is some info on lactobacillus.

*Lactobacillus is a genus of Gram-positive facultative anaerobe bacteria. They are a major part of the Lactic acid bacteria group, named as such because most of its members convert lactose and other simple sugars to lactic acid. They are common and usually benign, even necessary, inhabitants of humans and other animals. In humans they are present in the ****** and the gastrointestinal tract, and are an important genus of the gut flora. Many species are prominent in decaying plant material. The production of lactic acid makes its environment acidic which inhibits the growth of some harmful bacteria.*
*Some Lactobacillus species are used industrially for the production of yogurt, sauerkraut, pickles, and other fermented foods, such as silage. Sourdough bread is made using a "starter culture" which is a symbiotic culture of yeast and lactic acid bacteria growing in a water and flourmedium. Some yogurt drinks contain Lactobacillus bacteria as a dietary supplement. Korean kimchi is also made using lactic acid fermentationiron for growth and have an extremely high hydrogen peroxide* * techniques. Many lactobacilli are unique among living things as they do not require  tolerance. Lactobacilli, especially L. casei and L. brevis, are some of the most common beer spoilage organisms.*


*Source:  www.wikipedia.com
*


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 9, 2006)

Harborwitch said:
			
		

> MLB  Try this http://www.chilepepper.com/fiery_food_challenge.htm
> 
> If your sauce is as good as you say it is start here by entering it in the firey foods challenge!  A lot of "little guys/gals" have entered products here and gone on to glory.
> 
> ...



Harbor witch, the reason i think my sauce can do so well is because i prefer my sauce to a number 1 winner of that challenge, Hula Girl Chipotle, and a number 2 runner up, Day Of The Dead TequilaPequin.

Besides, food judging is highly subjective and im not here for accolades. I'm trying to expand my business and make some money! and I know for a fact i will be able to. I am very thankful for this advice im receiving - i have alot of work ahead of me. The only problem i have on this thred is the girl talking down to me saying 

" you dont know jack about me, i have my own bed and breakfast"

when she's not even aware of the fact that tomato develop completely different bacteria than habanero.


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 9, 2006)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> MLB:
> 
> I can see your enthusiasm for your product and the eagerness to get it on the market.  That's great, but life just isn't that simple.
> 
> ...



Andy, i own a business on the border where thousands of customers come through my gates seeking interesting exotic items. trusted veteran vendors there are personal friends. I can give them discounts on spaces and priviledges to set up huge displays of my sauces.  I can have some guy who rents a spot from me send his teenage son to spend an entire afternoon dicing up chilies or what not. I have virtually no overhead here. that is why im so excited. 

I have no desire for accolades. I just love making good sauce, and i love making money.

and i hope you love my sauce Andy. I think you will.


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## Chef_Jen (Sep 9, 2006)

dude i was using it as a comparasion.. I was saying simple foods can make you sick

Yes if you left your sauce in the sun it would spoil... if you shipped your sauce and the seal broke it would spoil if not stored right

IF something got into your sauce whilst cooking it could spoil

Dude ive seen VINEGAR spoil and go off...

Like i said im qualified to cater I have my licences... and to be honest you REALLY need to look into your licencing and permits. 

*Im NOT tALking you down* im just pointing out the things you CLEARLY havent thought about.

and like *almost everyone else has *pointed out YOU Dont need to actually make someone sick you just need a CLAIM..

and someone getting sick isnt your biggest worry. My point with mentioning my B&B was to show you i do know what im talking about when it comes to catering in my house for other people. I also worked for a PC in Texas.. and the laws in texas ARE strict..


listen at the end of the day i dont care what you do...., im just warning you because all it takes mate is one person calling the health dept on you or a neighbour complaining of the smelll of your hot sauce cooking for you to get fined.


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 9, 2006)

thanks for that that. will have my girl do some serious research as will I


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## lulu (Sep 9, 2006)

Mylegsbig said:
			
		

> (.......) trusted veteran vendors there are personal friends. I can give them discounts on spaces and priviledges to set up huge displays of my sauces. (.....).



Its great you are going to do more research.  I really hope that this works for you.  

It would be a great shame to implicate the vendors who are your friends if someone should decide to take action against you if you proceeded without the licences and insurances you need.  It might be a 100-1 chance as you say, but then your guilt would probably be even greater.

I wish you the best of luck in your endevour, and like everyone else, am saying this only as contructive critisism.


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## Andy M. (Sep 9, 2006)

Keep in mind that you don't have to make someone sick with your sauce to get into trouble. If you are not incompliance with the law in regards to food prep and distribution, you'll get slammed by one or more governmental agencies.  That can include hefty fines and more.


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 9, 2006)

i dont have to get insurance and permission from the law to give you guys some samples do i?


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## Chef_Jen (Sep 9, 2006)

Gifts are a different story!

Just cant produce and sell legally


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## GB (Sep 9, 2006)

The bottom line MLB, as far as I am concerned, is that it is great that you are this enthusiastic about this venture. You think your sauce can stack up against the best and I bet you will find others who agree with you. Like you said (I think it was you), taste is subjective. Some people will think your sauce is the greatest thing ever and others will think it is not good enough for the trash can. Forget that second group of people. They do not matter to you.

What I think people are trying to say here though is be smart about how you go about things. Take it from the people who have been there and done it. FOLLOW THE LAWS. You are not a stupid person. You have shown your intelligence here many times. USE IT. Be smart. Do not cut corners or try to get around the law. The outcome will not be good. It would be one thing if you were a single guy with no family, but you will have a wife and baby to think of. Do the right thing and if your sauce is as good as you say and you work hard then it will pay off.

best of luck with this man. I am really pulling for you. I would love to see your sauce on the shelves!!!


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## BigDog (Sep 9, 2006)

Mylegsbig said:
			
		

> i dont have to get insurance and permission from the law to give you guys some samples do i?


 
Not likely. It's like my grandmother that used to make Beach Plum Jelly every year after picking the beach plums by our cottage on Cape Cod. She made a bunch for all the family and sometimes friends. Now, you're a bit more on a larger scale, since there are more poeple here then in my family,but the concept is the same.

If you plan on having the stuff on the shelves at a grocer, then you gotta play by all the rules.

Frankly, I'd love to sample your sauce, and if I like it, might even be willing to "purchase" some.


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## FryBoy (Sep 9, 2006)

MLB,

I want to echo what several others have said -- I really would like to see you succeed in this venture, especially in light of your new responsibilities. 

But to succeed, you have to play within the rules. You might get away with bending a few for awhile, but not for long, and you MUST CYA -- silly lawsuits and government action have destroyed uncountable business ventures. Do it right to make it work. 

A couple of things you may want to consider:

1. I think the suggestion that you enter your sauce in contests is a winner. Having a "Gold Medal Winner" sticker on your bottles would make your sauce stand out from the 100s of others on the shelf, and that's important. The "best" product isn't necessarily the one that sells the most. 

2. You may need to get someone to manufacture it for you -- most specialty food companies do that. The manufacturing facilities meet all the federal and state requirements, and that covers you. Plus they can make it in huge quantities, according to your recipe and subject to your approval. Yeah, it would cost more, but it would allow you to make tens of thousands of units, and it's better than you doing the grunt labor at $5 per hour.

I'm eager to taste this magic elixir!


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## Essie (Sep 9, 2006)

If we're not too late, we'd love to try a taste.

We wish you wonderful success in your venture.


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## sattie (Sep 9, 2006)

Count me in on the tasting... I will consider anything hot and spicy and I love spice in cooking.  I applaude your endeavor and look forward to hearing about your progress!!!


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 10, 2006)

thanks so much for all the advice.

especially waking me up to the government and con artists trying to rip you out of your money.


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## jennyema (Sep 11, 2006)

Big

*Again, I am just trying to help you, man!* 

But -- ChefJen is right.  There are a whole lot of scenarios where you could get in trouble.  Like a WHOLE lot.

What if your peppers had pesticides on them, unbenonced to you?  What if the interior of your bottles had a chemical on them that you didn't know about?  Sterilization won't help you there.

Nor would it help you if a speck of glass mistakenly got in the sauce, or a bug, or some hair or another foreign object.  Or some other substance somehow got in there by mistake.

Or, like jen says, the bottle lost its seal. Or was left in a very hot place after being shipped.

What if you didn't list all the ingredients and someone had a bad allergic reaction?  

If you make someone sick you are in very, very big trouble.  Like it could be $1million lawsuit trouble.  There is a lot more to damages than medical bills.  And, like Andy said, if you don't comply with the laws, particularly health laws, you are both in trouble with the government and there will be fines, but you also provide incriminating evidence against yourself that the plaintiff's lawyer will have a very fun time with.

And, like someone else pointed out, you don't even need to hurt someone badly or hurt them at all to get sued.  Then you have to pay for a lawyer and go to court, which is $$, in addition to possibly paying damages for mecial bills, lost wages, distress, etc.  

"Going naked" (<--- in our business, going without liability insurance) is very, very ill advised.  Not complying with all applicable laws is like eating garlic preserved in oil, only it is highly likely that you'll be caught -- more likely the more successful you become.


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## stebbs (Sep 12, 2006)

Legs, good luck on your venture.  i noticed on a previous post that you were looking for bottles.  http://www.specialtybottle.com/index.asp is a good sight for hot sauce bottles, look under glass/sauce bottles.  if you order less than a case (120 bottles) it's $0.57 a bottle, but is $0.49 per bottle for a case or more and they even have drip caps that work perfect for hot sauce. Didn't see that on other sites, and I have ordered from them in the past.

Maybe you could get your start by just selling to friends and family (who probably wouldn't sue if there are any problems) and just shoot for the 120 bottle mark.  at $5 a bottle that's $600, not bad pocket change.


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## FryBoy (Sep 12, 2006)

Legs,

One other concern occurred to me in the middle of the night. If I understand correctly, your family owns a facility that is used for swap meets or farmers markets and so forth. 

If you are a partner or part owner of that, or if your name is on the deed, you need to incorporate your hot-sauce enterprise as a separate company. If you don't and instead operate as a d.b.a., the assets of the family business might be vulnerable. That is, if someone were to successfully sue you over the hot sauce, the property could be seized and sold as part of the judgment against you. 

Even if that's a remote possibility, you still need to protect against it. Incorporation isn't expensive.


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## rdcast (Sep 12, 2006)

OMG, OMG, I love hot sauce 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Texas Pete is mah favorite !!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you want to dance to da music, you must pay da band.


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