# Can I take nutrition supplements without doctor's advice/persciption?



## kenny1999 (Nov 29, 2020)

I'd like to take a kind of nutrition supplements which can be purchased on Amazon. Can I take it without doctor's advice or supplement? Does 
nutrition supplement usually have positive result, no result or negative result?

btw, when something shipped or sold directly by Amazon services, should it
be quality guaranteed and safe?

Thanks for advice.


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## dragnlaw (Nov 29, 2020)

quick answer "no"


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## pepperhead212 (Nov 29, 2020)

Ken,  Are you taking any medications?  Many medications have warnings about taking certain supplements with the medications - their activity may be reduced, or, in some cases, it may be like taking more medication, as some medications are designed from chemicals found in natural ingredients - something sometimes occurring with herbal supplements.  And many of those supplements on the market are not what they say they are - just because they are sold on Amazon does not guarantee quality control.  

Most of those supplement's claims are bogus, and, unfortunately, there is nothing out there to protect us from these claims.  FDA does nothing when an herbal or vitamin supplement claims that it lowers blood pressure, but doesn't.  And you know all those "possible side effects" listed for prescription drugs?  Some of those supplements should have the same things listed, but don't, and aren't required to!


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## GotGarlic (Nov 29, 2020)

There's no need to take supplements unless you have a deficiency documented by a blood test. In the United States, nutritional supplements are not required to be tested and proven to work for any purpose. I don't know about what is available to you in China, but I wouldn't risk it. As pepperhead said, some supplements can interact badly with some prescription medications and can have side effects of their own.


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## bethzaring (Nov 29, 2020)

For the most part, nutritional supplements have no effect; except to lighten your wallet.  Food is your best source for nutrients.


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## GotGarlic (Nov 29, 2020)

bethzaring said:


> For the most part, nutritional supplements have no effect; except to lighten your wallet.  Food is your best source for nutrients.


+1..


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## kenny1999 (Dec 2, 2020)

pepperhead212 said:


> Ken,  Are you taking any medications?  Many medications have warnings about taking certain supplements with the medications - their activity may be reduced, or, in some cases, it may be like taking more medication, as some medications are designed from chemicals found in natural ingredients - something sometimes occurring with herbal supplements.  And many of those supplements on the market are not what they say they are - just because they are sold on Amazon does not guarantee quality control.
> 
> Most of those supplement's claims are bogus, and, unfortunately, there is nothing out there to protect us from these claims.  FDA does nothing when an herbal or vitamin supplement claims that it lowers blood pressure, but doesn't.  And you know all those "possible side effects" listed for prescription drugs?  Some of those supplements should have the same things listed, but don't, and aren't required to!





bethzaring said:


> For the most part, nutritional supplements have no effect; except to lighten your wallet.  Food is your best source for nutrients.




I am not taking Vitamins or blueberry, I know they are quite unnecessary when you are already healthy. I'd like to take Saw Palmetto, a kind of 
natural extract that claims to help with hair loss. I have male pattern hair loss but I do not want to take the official medicine prescribed by doctor because it could lead to impotency, chances are low though. I think natural extract 
shouldn't lead to any side effect as serious as that of the synthetic medicine in laboratory, am I correct? What do you think?


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## GotGarlic (Dec 2, 2020)

kenny1999 said:


> I think natural extract shouldn't lead to any side effect as serious as that of the synthetic medicine in laboratory, am I correct? What do you think?


No, that's incorrect. It's a logical fallacy called the appeal to nature. Read more here. 
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-to-Nature

Synthetic medicines are thoroughly tested for safety and effectiveness; supplements are not. Natural does not automatically mean safe. Consider that tobacco and arsenic are poisonous to people and pure aspirin can cause ulcers.

Please read this for more information. https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consu...nd-nonprescription-drug-products-may-harm-you


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef (Dec 2, 2020)

Do you currently take prescription medications? If so, tell the doctor that prescribed them that you plan on taking one or more over the counter supplements. I was taking fish oil, Co-Q-10, psyllium, and a multivitamin long before I was prescribed any medications from a doctor, and I made sure my doctors knew which supplements I was taking, and in what quantity. 

Contrary to the naysayers, some supplements are necessary for optimum health. For example, fish oil supplements provide omega-3 fatty acids for heart health, increases good cholesterol and lowers blood pressure. Co-Q-10 is an antioxidant that helps improve heart health and blood sugar regulation (that is straight from the Mayo Clinic!). Psyllium regulates your digestive system and actually absorbs bad cholesterol and removes it with your bodily waste. You can't be sure you are getting all of your required vitamins and minerals from your diet without overeating. If your body doesn't need more of certain vitamins in a multi-vitamin, it will expel them when you urinate.

If need be, you can check out certain supplements on medical websites such as the Mayo Clinic web page and WebMD.


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## taxlady (Dec 2, 2020)

Some vitamins are fat soluble, so they are not excreted with urine. It is definitely possible to get toxic amounts of Vitamin A, especially if taken over a prolonged period of time. It may be possible to get toxic levels of other fat soluble vitamins, but I don't have the energy to look it up.


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## GotGarlic (Dec 2, 2020)

taxlady said:


> Some vitamins are fat soluble, so they are not excreted with urine. It is definitely possible to get toxic amounts of Vitamin A, especially if taken over a prolonged period of time. It may be possible to get toxic levels of other fat soluble vitamins, but I don't have the energy to look it up.


Vitamins A, D, E and K are all fat-soluble.


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## Linda0818 (Dec 2, 2020)

bethzaring said:


> For the most part, nutritional supplements have no effect; except to lighten your wallet.  Food is your best source for nutrients.



That's very true, but not all of us get the required nutrients we need from food alone. 

I'm not a huge fan of supplements and multi-vitamins, etc, but I do take a B-Complex (especially B-12) because my doctor suggested to me that those who take metformin for sugar control need B vitamins. I'm also going to start taking Natures Way Alive again, that has the fruits and vegetables thing going on. I just recently ordered more of those, after not taking them for a good while. I think with Covid thing as of late, I want to take something that will give me extra nutrients to possibly boost my immunity because I know, for a fact, that I don't get my "RDA" from food alone.


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## RCJoe (Dec 3, 2020)

So is the question regarding supplements or baldness ? 

About balding:

Most male baldness derives from testosterone as I understand it.



> Fluctuating *testosterone* can result in *balding* in both men and women. *Testosterone* produces a hormone called dihydrotestosterone which is responsible for *balding* in males and females. Some may be genetically sensitive to this hormone where as others may have high levels of it.



https://skinkraft.com/blogs/articles/testosterone-hair-loss

Much of male baldness starts with "male pattern" on the crown of the head.

As far as nutritional supplements go,  these are the *BIG* money maker 
of the health & wellness industry.  A lot of Health Food Stores dedicate a whole wall, usually by the door when you first walk in, to supplements.  The sales of these pays the rent, utilities, and much of the operating cost so the shop can stay in business. 

There are a lot of barber shops and men's hair styling places that sell products claiming to reverse the male pattern balding.  Just like women's
salons that sell products which claim to prevent wrinkles.  Again, the shop will make money whether the customer benefits or not.


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## GotGarlic (Dec 3, 2020)

Linda0818 said:


> That's very true, but not all of us get the required nutrients we need from food alone.
> 
> I'm not a huge fan of supplements and multi-vitamins, etc, but I do take a B-Complex (especially B-12) because my doctor suggested to me that those who take metformin for sugar control need B vitamins. I'm also going to start taking Natures Way Alive again, that has the fruits and vegetables thing going on. I just recently ordered more of those, after not taking them for a good while. I think with Covid thing as of late, I want to take something that will give me extra nutrients to possibly boost my immunity because I know, for a fact, that I don't get my "RDA" from food alone.


People deciding on their own to take supplements for unproven benefits is very different from supplements recommended by a doctor for a specific condition. I take a multivitamin and Vitamin D because I have an absorption disorder - I don't absorb nutrients well. But they are prescription medications whose contents and manufacture are regulated by the FDA. OTC supplements are not regulated so what's in the bottle may or may not match what's on the label. Sometimes they're even adulterated with toxic or illegal substances.


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef (Dec 3, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> OTC supplements are not regulated so what's in the bottle may or may not match what's on the label. Sometimes they're even adulterated with toxic or illegal substances.



To quote Stephen Stills: "Paranoia strikes deep. Into your life it will creep."


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## GotGarlic (Dec 3, 2020)

Sir_Loin_of_Beef said:


> To quote Stephen Stills: "Paranoia strikes deep. Into your life it will creep."


 Studies have proven this. I'm not making it up. My brother-in-law is a doctor who told me to get an Rx for the multivitamin about 20 years ago.

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consu...nd-nonprescription-drug-products-may-harm-you

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates


> Dietary supplements are regulated by the FDA as food, not as drugs. However, many dietary supplements contain ingredients that have strong biological effects which may conflict with a medicine you are taking or a medical condition you may have. Products containing hidden drugs are also sometimes falsely marketed as dietary supplements, putting consumers at even greater risk. For these reasons, it is important to consult with a health care professional before using any dietary supplement. Read these Consumer Updates to learn more.



https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/WYNTK-Consumer/ 


> "Many supplements contain active ingredients that can have strong effects in the body. Always be alert to the possibility of a bad reaction, especially when taking a new product.
> 
> "You are most likely to have side effects from dietary supplements if you take them at high doses or instead of prescribed medicines, or if you take many different supplements. Some supplements can increase the risk of bleeding or, if taken before surgery, can change your response to anesthesia. Supplements can also interact with some medicines in ways that might cause problems. Here are a few examples:
> 
> ...


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef (Dec 3, 2020)

As I said previously, you tell your doctor what supplements you are taking or intend to take, and s/he will adjust your medications as required. As far as your reference material goes, 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bufTna0WArc


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## Linda0818 (Dec 3, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> People deciding on their own to take supplements for unproven benefits is very different from supplements recommended by a doctor for a specific condition. I take a multivitamin and Vitamin D because I have an absorption disorder - I don't absorb nutrients well. But they are prescription medications whose contents and manufacture are regulated by the FDA. OTC supplements are not regulated so what's in the bottle may or may not match what's on the label. Sometimes they're even adulterated with toxic or illegal substances.



Well, I kind of do both. I take a supplement that was recommended by my doctor and will soon be taking another one of my own accord.


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## Linda0818 (Dec 3, 2020)

Sir_Loin_of_Beef said:


> As I said previously, you tell your doctor what supplements you are taking or intend to take, and s/he will adjust your medications as required. As far as your reference material goes,
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bufTna0WArc



Haha, so true.

Reminds me of a scene from the movie The Shining where Danny tells his mom he knows everything about cannibalism because he saw it on TV. And Jack goes, "See? It's okay. He saw it on the television."



The internet can definitely be a wealth of information, but it will scare the heck of out you sometimes. 

Like my mom always used to tell me, "Don't believe what you hear and half of what you see."

However, GG is right about some OTC drugs not being what they seem. Or what they claim. Some manufacturers toss that stuff out just to make money, not really caring if they do or contain what they're supposed to.


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## GotGarlic (Dec 3, 2020)

Sir_Loin_of_Beef said:


> As I said previously, you tell your doctor what supplements you are taking or intend to take, and s/he will adjust your medications as required. As far as your reference material goes,
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bufTna0WArc


Look again at the title of the thread. People don't always do that. The Dunning-Kruger effect is rampant these days. 

You are seriously suggesting that the National Institutes of Health and the Food & Drug Administration are not reliable sources?  I have been on the internet since 1988 and spent a career designing and managing large websites, including at a medical school whose medical librarians posted tips and advice on how to differentiate reliable sources from crap. Keep your condescending garbage to yourself.


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## Linda0818 (Dec 3, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> Look again at the title of the thread. People don't always do that. The Dunning-Kruger effect is rampant these days.
> 
> You are seriously suggesting that the National Institutes of Health and the Food & Drug Administration are not reliable sources?  I have been on the internet since 1988 and spent a career designing and managing large websites, including at a medical school whose medical librarians posted tips and advice on how to differentiate reliable sources from crap. Keep your condescending garbage to yourself.



Just so you know, I was laughing at the posted video, not at you.


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## GotGarlic (Dec 3, 2020)

Linda0818 said:


> Just so you know, I was laughing at the posted video, not at you.


I know. My response was for the SLoB.


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## Linda0818 (Dec 3, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> I know. My response was for the SLoB.





Thanks for the giggles. I needed that.


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## kenny1999 (Dec 4, 2020)

I am thinking about a logic....

When the fact is, nutritional supplement doesn't require FDA approval and can be obtained without doctor's prescription, shouldn't it be generally safe without having need to consider about reaction with other medicine? Just like we won't worry that eating vegetables or meat will react with your medicine.

Is my logic correct??


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## bethzaring (Dec 4, 2020)

kenny1999 said:


> I am thinking about a logic....
> 
> When the fact is, nutritional supplement doesn't require FDA approval and can be obtained without doctor's prescription, shouldn't it be generally safe without having need to consider about reaction with other medicine? Just like we won't worry that eating vegetables or meat will react with your medicine.
> 
> Is my logic correct??




No it is not.  One of my previous jobs was to monitor "food and drug interactions" for nursing home residents.  Google food and drug interactions.  I referred to a manual on the subject when documenting.


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## GotGarlic (Dec 4, 2020)

The FDA regulates food and prescription drugs. The Dietary Supplements Health and Education Act explicitly prevents the FDA from regulating supplements until something bad happens. Supplement manufacturers are not required to prove the safety and effectiveness of products they put on the market. 

From https://www.pharmacytimes.com/publi...legislative-framework-for-dietary-supplements



> The production and distribution of dietary supplements is an industry that has grown steadily. Yet, the oversight has remained almost the same since 1994. With the authority of the FDA limited by statute to removing supplements from the market only after reports of adverse effects, the role of pharmacists to intervene and assist patients with optimal product selection is vital.
> 
> The principal legislation covering products in this classification is the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 (DSHEA), which defined what constitutes a dietary supplement and outlines the limited role of the FDA in the oversight of the industry. Any dietary supplement ingredients marketed before 1994 are not required to have FDA clearance before marketing in interstate commerce.1 As a result, manufacturers are responsible for ensuring that products are neither adulterated nor misbranded and comply with the Current Good Manufacturing Practices (CGMP).2 The FDA’s authority is limited to surveillance and acting after defective products reach the market. An improvement to the legislation, the Dietary Supplement and Nonprescription Drug Consumer Protection Act of 2006, was passed 12 years ago, mandating that manufacturers report adverse effects within 15 days after they are received.3
> 
> Although the DSHEA has been around for more than 20 years, the public has misconceptions about what it entails. This has a lot to do with the growth and prevalence of the supplement industry, which is projected to grow from $100 billion in 2013 to more than $260 billion by 2024.4 The appearance of supplement packaging and “dosage forms” frequently resemble those of the medications that have been proved effective and safe. Additionally, the supplements are located near these medications in stores, which may contribute to assumptions and misunderstandings about their quality. Many consumers do not know that a way to ensure that a product contains what it says and nothing more is to look for a verification seal from a quality assurance program, such as consumerlab.com, the National Sanitation Foundation International, and the US Pharmacopeial Dietary Supplement Verification Program. Products with these seals should be recommended to patients.


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## kenny1999 (Dec 6, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> The FDA regulates food and prescription drugs. The Dietary Supplements Health and Education Act explicitly prevents the FDA from regulating supplements until something bad happens. Supplement manufacturers are not required to prove the safety and effectiveness of products they put on the market.
> 
> From https://www.pharmacytimes.com/publi...legislative-framework-for-dietary-supplements




OK. If I still want to take a certain nutritional supplement, and it is shipped from and sold by Amazon.com, not a third party seller, is it the best bet for me??


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## GotGarlic (Dec 6, 2020)

kenny1999 said:


> I'd like to take a kind of nutrition supplements which can be purchased on Amazon. Can I take it without doctor's advice or supplement? Does
> nutrition supplement usually have positive result, no result or negative result?
> 
> btw, when something shipped or sold directly by Amazon services, should it
> ...





dragnlaw said:


> quick answer "no"


This is still true. It doesn't matter who sells the supplements. There are no guarantees.


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## kenny1999 (Dec 6, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> This is still true. It doesn't matter who sells the supplements. There are no guarantees.



But when a supplement is sourced by Amazon, wouldn't it more guaranteed? Amazon must have their legal team and they don't want to be sued badly in case of problems. As a result, they should at least have some belief in the
products they source, isn't it??


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## GotGarlic (Dec 6, 2020)

kenny1999 said:


> But when a supplement is sourced by Amazon, wouldn't it more guaranteed? Amazon must have their legal team and they don't want to be sued badly in case of problems. As a result, they should at least have some belief in the products they source, isn't it??


No. Amazon is not responsible for the safety or effectiveness of products that can be legally sold in the countries where they operate.

This is the last thing I am going to say on this topic. From Harvard University:



> You can find plenty of treatments for hair loss on the Internet. Some are combinations of "specially formulated" shampoos and an herbal supplement in capsule form that may have saw palmetto as an ingredient. But aside from paid, "it really works!" testimonials, there's not much evidence that these remedies are effective. Save your money


https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/Hair_today_more_hair_tomorrow


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