# Fat Flat up or down



## Captain Morgan (Jun 12, 2005)

This is a hotly debated topic, and very well respected q-gurus will give you different answers.  Some say the rendering fat trickles down, some say it's better to sit it in its own juices so the bottom doesn't burn or overcook.

   Choose one method, make notes and do the opposite next time.  Then report back here with your notes!!!


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## Finney (Jun 12, 2005)

You trying to start a fight here?


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## LarryWolfe (Jun 12, 2005)

Cruising said:
			
		

> OK - so I have a small Flat I am officially bbqing today (will be posting pictures if I can figure out how to upload them here.
> 
> Should the fat side of a Flat (say that 5 times fast) be up or down to start?  And more importantly, why does it matter?
> 
> ...



I do mine fat sid up, but many do theirs fat side down.  They do it that was to protect the underside of the brisket from the heat and drying out.  Flats are typically over trimmed in the stores around here.  If you are not sure and you feel like something different, put it fat side down and put a few strips of bacon on top.  That way you are covered bother ways!  Good luck and let us know how it turns out.


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## Finney (Jun 12, 2005)

Larry and other say you for the reason you stated.
Minion and others say flat down to protect the meat.

Most flats don't have a whole lot of fat anyway.  You may want to cook it fat side down and lay bacon slices on top.  Someone suggested that a while back.  May have been Minion.


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## ScottyDaQ (Jun 12, 2005)

I done mine both ways, and I prefer fat side down ... then letting it rest in foil with fat side up. 

I just took a Foodsavered Point out of the Freezer. Mmmmm.


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## Finney (Jun 12, 2005)

Damn Larry, you snuck in while I was typing.  #-o


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## Captain Morgan (Jun 12, 2005)

If he asks about water vs. sand, or what type of sauce to use, he's definately trying to stir things up!  Keep an eye on this Cruising guy! :!:


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## Nick Prochilo (Jun 12, 2005)

Thats what I'd do, fat down with some bacon on the top.


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## Captain Morgan (Jun 12, 2005)

Further proof that Carolina q is better than Texas q...even when they do beef they're still putting bacon on it!    

Whoops, did I say that out loud?

Im sorry Lord, forgive me, be with the pygmies....


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## Jack W. (Jun 12, 2005)

Captain Morgan said:
			
		

> Further proof that Carolina q is better than Texas q...even when they do beef they're still putting bacon on it!
> 
> Whoops, did I say that out loud?
> 
> Im sorry Lord, forgive me, be with the pygmies....



Beef bacon, I'm sure.  

Good Q!

Jack


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## Greg Rempe (Jun 12, 2005)

I do my brisket fat side down and then when I rest it I make sure the fat cap is facing upwards in the cooler.  The fat continues to melt and the beef side benefits from it...staying nice and moist. :!: 

It would be best to try it both ways and see how you get the most consistent product.


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## LarryWolfe (Jun 12, 2005)

Cruising said:
			
		

> Is it normal for the brisket to soak up the rub a great deal?



Alot of how your meat reacts to the rubs is caused by the amount of salt and sugar you have in your rub.  Both ingredients are needed for "osmosis".  If you don't have enough salt or sugar in your rub (but not too much) the rub will be dry looking on the meat.  But with the proper amounts of salt and sugar, you will create the osmosis process which in the beginning will actually start to pull the juices out of your meat and create what looks like a wet rub.  But throughout the osmosis process the meat will then begin to start absorbing the juices (now flavored from your rub) back into the meat.  This is why I prefer to rub my meat and wrap it the night before I plan on cooking, this is not necessary to make good Q, just my preference.  I will then rub it again right before I put it on the cooker.


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## DaleP (Jun 12, 2005)

I roll mine like a ho ho snack cake. :^o 

Fat side down for me in truth, I like PB better, probably because my recipe sux.


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## LarryWolfe (Jun 12, 2005)

DaleP said:
			
		

> *I roll mine like a ho ho snack cake. :^o*
> 
> Fat side down for me in truth, I like PB better, probably because my recipe sux.



:lmao:


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## Kloset BBQR (Jun 12, 2005)

I do fat side up and flip at cooking 1/2 times.  The temp especially in a WSM will be much hotter up top then at the bottom where technically at least at the water pan level it won't exceed the boiling point of water.  I'd cook the brisket on the lower rack closer to the water pan, to get the benefit of the moisture the water gives.

A little explanation of the cooking 1/2 times. If your expecting a 10 hour cook, flip at five hours, then after another 2 1/2 hours but with a five #'er I don't think it will matter much. 

Biggest issue will be trying to keep the brisket moist.  Foil early, first sign of a plateau, and keep the temps under 230 if you can.  Let her rest for a couple of hours, then enjoy.

What you really need is two briskets and two WSM's so you can experiment with the different theories and then can report back.

Good luck on the Virgin Brisket cook.

One more thing, don't slice until your ready to eat.  Brisket, especially a small one will dry out quickly after slicing.  Save those juices to revive the brisket slices.


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## LarryWolfe (Jun 12, 2005)

Susan Z said:
			
		

> *Larry, do you really need sugar for osmosis?*
> 
> Hey, has anyone tried shocking their brisket with a taser to see if it make the meat relax or cooperate more?
> 
> :suns:



YES!  I'll see if I can find something on the web and post a link.  I don't know the scientific reasoning as to why you need the combination of the two.  Same goes with brines though.


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## LarryWolfe (Jun 12, 2005)

Larry Wolfe said:
			
		

> [quote="Susan Z":3s1b0kxc]*Larry, do you really need sugar for osmosis?*
> 
> Hey, has anyone tried shocking their brisket with a taser to see if it make the meat relax or cooperate more?
> 
> :suns:



YES!  I'll see if I can find something on the web and post a link.  I don't know the scientific reasoning as to why you need the combination of the two.  Same goes with brines though.[/quote:3s1b0kxc]

*Osmosis*


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## LarryWolfe (Jun 12, 2005)

Larry Wolfe said:
			
		

> [quote="Larry Wolfe":3t5u1jzn][quote="Susan Z":3t5u1jzn]*Larry, do you really need sugar for osmosis?*
> 
> Hey, has anyone tried shocking their brisket with a taser to see if it make the meat relax or cooperate more?
> 
> :suns:



YES!  I'll see if I can find something on the web and post a link.  I don't know the scientific reasoning as to why you need the combination of the two.  Same goes with brines though.[/quote:3t5u1jzn]

*Osmosis*[/quote:3t5u1jzn]

Here's another link and this one is directly from *Bill Cannon*, go down to the rub section and it will explain it.


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## Kloset BBQR (Jun 12, 2005)

Ok guys this ought to explain the osmosis process in terms everyone can understand. But you need a liquid environment (water or some other solution).  You guys can thank me later.  

Chemical potential

When a solute is dissolved in a solvent, the random mixing of the two species results in an increase in the entropy of the system, which corresponds to a reduction in the chemical potential. For the case of an ideal solution the reduction in chemical potential corresponds to:

    RT \ln(1 - x_2) \qquad (1)

where R is the gas constant, T is the temperature and x2 is the solute concentration in terms of mole fraction. Most real solutions approximate ideal behavior for low solute concentrations (At higher concentrations interactions between solute and solvent cause deviations from Equation 1). This reduced potential creates a driving force and it is this force which drives diffusion of water through the semipermeable membrane.


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## Finney (Jun 12, 2005)

Thanks Kloset,
I didn't understand it until now.  #-o


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## Kloset BBQR (Jun 12, 2005)

Your welcome Chris but I actually try to break things into steps.  It makes learning much easier.  Now for the second and final half or our lesson you need to understand Osmotic pressure.

Osmotic pressure

As mentioned before, osmosis can be opposed by increasing the pressure in the region of high solute concentration with respect to that in the low solute concentration region. The force per unit area required to prevent the passage of water through a semi-permeable membrane and into a solution of greater concentration is equivalent to the osmotic pressure of the solution, or turgor. Osmotic pressure is a colligative property, meaning that the property depends on the concentration of the solute but not on its identity.

Increasing the pressure increases the chemical potential of the system in proportion to the molar volume (δμ = δPV). Therefore, osmosis stops, when the increase in potential due to pressure equals the potential decrease from Equation 1, i.e.:

    \delta PV = -RT \ln(1-x_2)\qquad (2)

Where δP is the osmotic pressure and V is the molar volume of the solvent.

For the case of very low solute concentrations, -ln(1-x2) ≈ x2 and Equation 2 can be rearranged into the following expression for osmotic pressure:

    \delta P = RTx_2/V \qquad (3) 

That completes our lesson in Osmosis 101. Simple Huh!


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## Finney (Jun 12, 2005)

Dang Kloset... I knew it couldn't be as easy as just that first part.  :-(


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## Nick Prochilo (Jun 12, 2005)

I already knew that Kloset!


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## Captain Morgan (Jun 12, 2005)

"I'm with you fellers."   (O Brother)


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## Jack W. (Jun 12, 2005)

Kloset BBQR said:
			
		

> Your welcome Chris but I actually try to break things into steps.  It makes learning much easier.  Now for the second and final half or our lesson you need to understand Osmotic pressure.
> 
> Osmotic pressure
> 
> ...



HAMMOCK TIME!    :grin: 

Expanding Q!

Jack


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