# This might help with all the school shootings



## Dawgluver (Jun 10, 2014)

Muscatine teacher’s invention could save your child’s life | WQAD.com


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## pacanis (Jun 10, 2014)

hmmm, I read the words "teacher" and "12 ga" and I thought they were onto something...


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## roadfix (Jun 10, 2014)

...or a simple heavy duty sliding bolt lock mounted high

I really don't understand why something new had to be invented when a sliding bolt would accomplish the same thing, and even better.  But of course, installing them on every classroom door can be a pain, and not to mention the cost of labor to install them.


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## Dawgluver (Jun 10, 2014)

What I like is that they're being proactive.  A very simple solution to a complex problem?  A start.  A bolt wouldn't withstand 550 pounds.

These shootings have gone beyond ridiculous.


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## pacanis (Jun 10, 2014)

Any locking device is going to have to pass fire inspection. Let alone ADA. 
That's the world we live in.


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## Aunt Bea (Jun 10, 2014)

I'm glad to see that people are thinking about ways to protect the kids and this thing is better than nothing.

I would think the shooter would just start shooting at the window next to the door.

I would also be concerned that some of our "brighter" children would use the device to keep the teacher out of the room or barricade kids in the room etc...


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## Dawgluver (Jun 10, 2014)

pacanis said:


> Any locking device is going to have to pass fire inspection. Let alone ADA.
> That's the world we live in.




Several businesses here are already using it.  It slides on and off very easily.

Better something than nothing!


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## Cheryl J (Jun 11, 2014)

The frequent school shootings make me so sad and angry....it seems every time I turn on the news these days, this is happening.  GRRRR!  I agree that anything pro active is better than nothing.  

What in the he!! is happening with our kids.  It's just heartbreaking.


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## Dawgluver (Jun 11, 2014)

It just breaks my heart every time I hear of another shooting.  Seems there's been one daily lately.


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## Andy M. (Jun 11, 2014)

Something has to be done.  I wish I had the perfect solution.


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## Addie (Jun 11, 2014)

I think what upsets me the most regarding all these school shootings is the parents. "We had no idea that (the student) had these in his/her room." 

My kids were never entitled to their total privacy until they were out on their own. It is my house, and I will nose around where ever I want to. When you earn the most money and support the home completely on your own, then you make the rules. Sure I found the occasional Playboy under the mattress. Better that than a gun.  Some things I let slide, some I didn't. Dirty laundry tossed under the bed was a no no. The hamper is not that far away. Trash on the floor. Every room had a waste basket. And I made it a practice to read some of it. Mostly love letters to their latest unattainable interest. 

Never did I find a word about killings, guns, etc.


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## chiklitmanfan (Jun 11, 2014)

I've worked in commercial aviation all my life and we have gone to great lengths to secure airline crews, especially pilots.  The flight deck doors serve the same purpose as the barrier door in the video.  

If and when that becomes a reality, I'm still for the temporary solution of deputizing/training and arming volunteer administrators and teachers, or at least having an armed law enforcement officer physically present on every school campus.


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## Addie (Jun 11, 2014)

chiklitmanfan said:


> I've worked in commercial aviation all my life and we have gone to great lengths to secure airline crews, especially pilots.  The flight deck doors serve the same purpose as the barrier door in the video.
> 
> If and when that becomes a reality, I'm still for the temporary solution of deputizing/training and *arming volunteer* administrators and teachers, or at least having an armed law enforcement officer physically present on every school campus.



We already have armed volunteers in the schools. They are called the students.

Unfortunately in Boston, we have armed Boston Police Officers patrolling the schools corridors in some of our schools.


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## Oldvine (Jun 11, 2014)

It looks good to me.  I also don't think a sliding bolt would be as strong, but either device is better than nothing when seconds count.
I also wonder about people that say they had no idea that their kids had guns in their room.  There's more to raising kids than throwing money at them in hopes of keeping them occupied.


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## Alix (Jun 11, 2014)

I hesitate to mention this as it might start a riot around here, but um...how about making firearms less accessible? I get that its in your constitution to bear arms, but it seems to me that if you can't get a gun you can't shoot anyone. Its like keeping other dangerous items away from your kids. You turn pot handles to the inside of the range so toddlers can't yank on them, you put plug covers on outlets so they can't stick things in there. If they can't get at the dangerous items they can't use them.  

Also, sorry folks, I'm pretty Canadian here. The only guns I've seen are on the hips of our police. I've held one (because my best friend is a cop) and I've shot a BB gun, but if I wanted to buy a handgun I would have to look pretty hard to find one, and then the hoops I'd have to jump through are significant. Finding any kind of automatic or semi automatic would be far more difficult.

Maybe I'm just weird but I would never go through my kids' things. Their rooms and "stuff" belong to them, not me. I'd never have trusted my Mom again if she'd read my diary and so I never read my kids stuff either. I figure I'm savvy enough to pick on when they're acting weird and we can deal with stuff then. I've not seen much reported about the shooter, but I expect we will hear a lot about odd behaviour and isolation. 

I've already said some prayers for that town and the family of the young man who was killed. My heart is heavy.


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## Andy M. (Jun 11, 2014)

Alix, I agree with your point but hesitated to mention it here.  I don't have an issue with guns.  They serve useful purposes.  However, whenever you see statistics about gun related violence in other countries, the numbers are stunningly lower than here.  There has to be some way of controlling access.

As I said above, I wish I had the perfect solution.


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## Alix (Jun 11, 2014)

Agreed Andy. I think they have a purpose, I just don't personally HAVE a purpose for them. And I looked up some statistics as well and it truly is a staggering figure.


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## cave76 (Jun 11, 2014)

Dawgluver said:


> Muscatine teacher’s invention could save your child’s life | WQAD.com



A good idea *assuming* the shooter will always be coming through the door.

Wasn't there a shooting in the not too distant past where the 'bad guy(s)' went to first story windows in a school and shot through them?

Yes, Sandy Hook: the shooter shot through outside windows to gain access (or to kill).


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## roadfix (Jun 11, 2014)

Oldvine said:


> It looks good to me.  I also don't think a sliding bolt would be as strong, but either device is better than nothing when seconds count.
> I also wonder about people that say they had no idea that their kids had guns in their room.  There's more to raising kids than throwing money at them in hopes of keeping them occupied.



You can also blame it on the gun culture here and the ease of acquiring guns but there's no turning around on that, I know.

Any add on locking device is only as strong as the door closure hardware used.  Actually, a commercial sliding bolt that bolts through the door jam is much stronger.  The boot is only as strong as the screws used to mount the door closer.


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## Roll_Bones (Jun 11, 2014)

Alix said:


> I hesitate to mention this as it might start a riot around here, but um...how about making firearms less accessible? I get that its in your constitution to bear arms, but it seems to me that if you can't get a gun you can't shoot anyone. Its like keeping other dangerous items away from your kids. You turn pot handles to the inside of the range so toddlers can't yank on them, you put plug covers on outlets so they can't stick things in there. If they can't get at the dangerous items they can't use them.
> 
> Also, sorry folks, I'm pretty Canadian here. The only guns I've seen are on the hips of our police. I've held one (because my best friend is a cop) and I've shot a BB gun, but if I wanted to buy a handgun I would have to look pretty hard to find one, and then the hoops I'd have to jump through are significant. Finding any kind of automatic or semi automatic would be far more difficult.



It seems our Canadian neighbors to our north have more sense than many of us here in America.
You are right.  Make guns hard to come by and it makes them harder to get into anyones hand, including the bad guys.

You see, someone is going to point out next, that if we remove guns from the law abiding, only the criminals will have them.  
It is a silly argument and the NRA is fostering these falsehoods upon our people.

Its time we stop selling guns to anyone who wants one.  Its time we shut down gun shows where people can buy guns without background checks.
Its time to stop this senseless violence.  Its time for strict gun laws and time for everyone who owns a gun to be checked over and over again to be certain they are suitable candidates for gun ownership.  Just as we are tested for a drivers license, so should every single gun owner in this country.  
Its time to put our future and our children's future first. 

I read the constitution as the only people allowed to own guns is a well regulated militia.  I know the US supreme court has already ruled on this and they were wrong?  Very wrong and I hope one day, the second amendment is amended.
Frankly the US constitution is almost as old as this country and is in dire need of an overhaul.  Trash the existing constitution.
I say start all over again and take into consideration we are in the 21st century.


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## pacanis (Jun 11, 2014)

Hey, I have an idea.
Let's make non-prescription drugs illegal and while we are at it, underage drinking. Might as well end all our problems. Obviously making those things harder to obtain will stop all the problems associated with them.


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## Mad Cook (Jun 11, 2014)

Addie said:


> I think what upsets me the most regarding all these school shootings is the parents. "We had no idea that (the student) had these in his/her room."
> 
> My kids were never entitled to their total privacy until they were out on their own. It is my house, and I will nose around where ever I want to. When you earn the most money and support the home completely on your own, then you make the rules. Sure I found the occasional Playboy under the mattress. Better that than a gun.  Some things I let slide, some I didn't. Dirty laundry tossed under the bed was a no no. The hamper is not that far away. Trash on the floor. Every room had a waste basket. And I made it a practice to read some of it. Mostly love letters to their latest unattainable interest.
> 
> Never did I find a word about killings, guns, etc.


As it should be. Don't hold with allowing children to have secrets from their adults. Mind you, I don't think adults should have secrets from their children either.


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## Mad Cook (Jun 11, 2014)

chiklitmanfan said:


> I've worked in commercial aviation all my life and we have gone to great lengthright to keep and bear armss to secure airline crews, especially pilots.  The flight deck doors serve the same purpose as the barrier door in the video.
> 
> If and when that becomes a reality, I'm still for the temporary solution of deputizing/training and arming volunteer administrators and teachers, or at least having an armed law enforcement officer physically present on every school campus.


Don't you, perhaps, think that the "the right to keep and bear arms," might be the problem in the first place? It's not as if you have to defend yourselves against King George III, red indians and Jesse James anymore.


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## cave76 (Jun 11, 2014)

pacanis said:


> Hey, I have an idea.
> Let's make non-prescription drugs illegal and while we are at it, underage drinking. Might as well end all our problems. Obviously making those things harder to obtain will stop all the problems associated with them.



Yep ---- That'll do it


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## GotGarlic (Jun 11, 2014)

I just had this discussion yesterday on Facebook 

IMO, the goal is not to disarm the entire population. The goal is to reduce gun violence - not eliminate, because I think that's not possible in this country, but we can reduce it significantly. There are several ways to help make that happen:


require background checks on all gun purchases
require training in firearm use and safety practices (there have been a lot of accidents involving children reported lately)
restrict sales of high-capacity magazines (some shooters have been stopped by bystanders when they stopped shooting to reload)
require registration of all firearms, like with cars, so police can track who owns a gun used in the commission of a crime

From the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence: "BREAKING NEWS: Reynolds High School shooter in Troutdale, Oregon, identified as 15-year-old Jared Padgett. He was armed with an AR-15, a semiautomatic handgun and 9 high-capacity ammunition magazines. He got all of it from home."


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## Aunt Bea (Jun 11, 2014)

IMO the problem has less to do with guns and more to do with teaching young people how to handle themselves and deal with emotions.  I think this kind of emotional coaching was more natural years ago when children were raised by family members, that had a vested interest in them, and not by strangers.  Looking back I think that we had much less time alone and much less privacy when we were growing up than kids do today.  I think that unrestricted access to the internet contributes to this problem.  I believe that young people deserve privacy, but I also firmly believe that telephones, computers, etc... should be in common areas where an adult can casually monitor what is going on.

I am concerned that in the US when these things happen we come up with solutions and preventive measures that cost billions of dollars and only create the illusion of safety.  Most of these measures really do nothing to solve the problem or protect us they just create additional expense and bureaucracy.


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## pacanis (Jun 11, 2014)

I can sympathize with the belief that more gun control will fix the problem, but the fact is there is more gun control now than there was thirty years ago when we did not have this problem. And yes we had AR 15's and high capacity magazines back then, too. You could walk into any department store and walk out with a rifle, 100 rounds of ammo and five magazines ten minutes later.
Addie had it right when she said that more parental control needs to happen. It is a generational problem and taking away one method will only have it replaced with another.
It's like saying that making computers harder to get and limiting sales of the components that make them functional will stop the increase in teen suicides. Kids will simply find a different way to pick on one another and every honest person who had no problem using a computer and putting up with strangers' nonsense will have to put up with it.


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## pacanis (Jun 11, 2014)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO the problem has less to do with guns and more to do with teaching young people how to handle themselves and deal with emotions. I think this kind of emotional coaching was more natural years ago when children were raised by family members, that had a vested interest in them, and not by strangers. Looking back I think that we had much less time alone and much less privacy when we were growing up than kids do today. I think that unrestricted access to the internet contributes to this problem. I believe that young people deserve privacy, but I also firmly believe that telephones, computers, etc... should be in common areas where an adult can casually monitor what is going on.
> 
> I am concerned that in the US when these things happen we come up with solutions and preventive measures that cost billions of dollars and only create the illusion of safety. Most of these measures really do nothing to solve the problem or protect us they just create additional expense and bureaucracy.


 

Like

Exactly my thoughts as I was typing. People always want to pass blame. Certainly the kid's parents aren't to blame, it's the easy access to the gun


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## Dawgluver (Jun 11, 2014)

We need more mental health services that are readily accessible for everyone.  These are being cut, and in many areas, just aren't available.  And parents, teachers, and others who notice troubled kids shouldn't have to fear retribution if they report them.


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## Andy M. (Jun 11, 2014)

pacanis said:


> Like
> 
> Exactly my thoughts as I was typing. People always want to pass blame. Certainly the kid's parents aren't to blame, it's the easy access to the gun



I consider parents primarily responsible for their children.  Sadly, parents aren't always up to the job.  I'm not sure what makes a teen boy think the solution is to go to a school and shoot children.  

I'm not sure parents can prevent it.  I see lots of factors that contribute.  Violence in movies and on TV is orders of magnitude greater than in the past.  There is an increase in violence throughout society. 

This attitude towards violence is at the heart of it.  It has become the easy solution to your problems to attack your 'enemy'.  The ready availability of assault weapons just makes it easier to do it in a big way.

If there were no guns available to these kids, there would be no school shootings.  Maybe there would be school bombings instead, or school poisonings.

As I said before, I wish I had the perfect solution.  Not sure there is one.


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## pacanis (Jun 11, 2014)

Dawgluver said:


> We need more mental health services that are readily accessible for everyone. These are being cut, and in many areas, just aren't available. *And parents, teachers, and others who notice troubled kids shouldn't have to fear retribution if they report them*.


 
Exactly. It's the PC, don't step on any toes world we live in. 



Andy M. said:


> I consider parents primarily responsible for their children. Sadly, parents aren't always up to the job. I'm not sure what makes a teen boy think the solution is to go to a school and shoot children.
> 
> I'm not sure parents can prevent it. I see lots of factors that contribute. Violence in movies and on TV is orders of magnitude greater than in the past. There is an increase in violence throughout society.
> 
> ...


 
There would be stabbings, like the kid in Pgh a month ago (or so). Twenty some people got stabbed. And he didn't look like a large or strong kid either.

True, guns make it easy, but where there's a will there's a way.


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## CarolPa (Jun 11, 2014)

Our recent school attack was a stabbing rampage with 2 kitchen knives.  Kitchen knives are available to every school student.  No one died, but they could have.  He is charged with 21 counts of attempted homicide and assault.  He pleaded not guilty today.  I am not sure if he's being charged as an adult or a juvenile.  I still haven't heard if he stated a reason for his actions.  He has the best Pittsburgh defense attorney that money can buy.

Another fatal attack happened at home instead of at school.  A teen beat his brother to death with a baseball bat in an argument over a girl.

It doesn't have to be a gun.

I always searched my step-children's rooms.  I did it because I didn't want any surprises.  How many parents say they didn't know their kids were involved in this or that.  I never found anything earth shattering....nothing I never did as a teen.  It just gave me some peace of mind that they were good kids.  I did this for their protection, which was my job!

*Addie*, if my kids left their dirty clothes on the floor they stayed there. It wasn't my job to pick them up. On washday, I washed what was in the hamper.  Once they learned that their favorite outfit didn't get washed, they made sure they were in the hamper after that.


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## GotGarlic (Jun 11, 2014)

pacanis said:


> I can sympathize with the belief that more gun control will fix the problem, but the fact is there is more gun control now than there was thirty years ago when we did not have this problem. And yes we had AR 15's and high capacity magazines back then, too. You could walk into any department store and walk out with a rifle, 100 rounds of ammo and five magazines ten minutes later.



You should think about coming down to Virginia to a gun show. You can buy pretty much anything you want, in as large quantities as you want, out in the parking lot. No questions asked, no limits. You bring the cash, you take home whatever you want. We used to have a limit of one handgun purchase a month, because gang members from other states would come and buy trunkloads-full, but it was repealed a few years ago. 

I'm not saying the availability of weapons and ammunition is the only problem. Certainly, our mental health care system needs much improvement and some parents need to take more responsibility for their children. But we all need to recognize that a lot of things have changed in our society in the last 30 years and take reasonable steps to do what we can to prevent more violence.


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## GotGarlic (Jun 11, 2014)

CarolPa said:


> Our recent school attack was a stabbing rampage with 2 kitchen knives.  Kitchen knives are available to every school student.  No one died, but they could have.



But they didn't. It's a lot harder to murder a lot of people with a knife or a baseball bat than with a semi-automatic gun and several high-capacity magazines.


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## Dawgluver (Jun 11, 2014)

GotGarlic said:


> But they didn't. It's a lot harder to murder a lot of people with a knife or a baseball bat than with a semi-automatic gun and several high-capacity magazines.




There are sick, twisted people out there.  Sadly, there are some who are quietly bat-crap crazy.  Maybe with the proper medication and counseling, they wouldn't follow their urges.


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## Bigjim68 (Jun 11, 2014)

GotGarlic said:


> You should think about coming down to Virginia to a gun show. You can buy pretty much anything you want, in as large quantities as you want, out in the parking lot. No questions asked, no limits. You bring the cash, you take home whatever you want. We used to have a limit of one handgun purchase a month, because gang members from other states would come and buy trunkloads-full, but it was repealed a few years ago.
> 
> I'm not saying the availability of weapons and ammunition is the only problem. Certainly, our mental health care system needs much improvement and some parents need to take more responsibility for their children. But we all need to recognize that a lot of things have changed in our society in the last 30 years and take reasonable steps to do what we can to prevent more violence.



I have to ask, GG.  Have you actually been to a gun show in VA?  I have, lots of them, both here and in NC.  I have yet to see a pickup full of gangbangers from NY loading up guns out of a semi and taking off for NY.  Security is tight, and any such activity would be immediately investigated.  

Nearly all the actual arms dealers at these shows are FFL, and are fully vetted by management prior to being allowed to exhibit.  Promoters have far too much to lose if activities as you describe were permitted.  Background checks are made.   Those that are not licensed are vendors selling antique firearms or non gun related items.


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## pacanis (Jun 11, 2014)

GotGarlic said:


> You should think about coming down to Virginia to a gun show. You can buy pretty much anything you want, in as large quantities as you want, out in the parking lot. No questions asked, no limits. You bring the cash, you take home whatever you want. We used to have a limit of one handgun purchase a month, because gang members from other states would come and buy trunkloads-full, but it was repealed a few years ago.
> 
> I'm not saying the availability of weapons and ammunition is the only problem. Certainly, our mental health care system needs much improvement and some parents need to take more responsibility for their children.* But we all need to recognize that a lot of things have changed in our society in the last 30 years and take reasonable steps to do what we can to prevent more violence*.


 
I agree. All I'm saying is you don't make it harder to buy a car because DUI's or hit and runs are up. 
Something needs done, but it should address the immediate problem, which is, as already mentioned, the mental issues. What is it today that makes kids freak out so easily that wasn't here when we were growing up? 

And I know it's just not kids, but most adults that go ballistic is a form of retalliation against oppression. Things go to extremes these days.


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## CarolPa (Jun 11, 2014)

GotGarlic said:


> But they didn't. It's a lot harder to murder a lot of people with a knife or a baseball bat than with a semi-automatic gun and several high-capacity magazines.




Even one death is too many.


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## GotGarlic (Jun 12, 2014)

pacanis said:


> I agree. All I'm saying is you don't make it harder to buy a car because DUI's or hit and runs are up.
> Something needs done, but it should address the immediate problem, which is, as already mentioned, the mental issues. What is it today that makes kids freak out so easily that wasn't here when we were growing up?
> 
> And I know it's just not kids, but most adults that go ballistic is a form of retalliation against oppression. Things go to extremes these days.



But we do require training, testing, licensing and registration when it comes to cars. I'm told by a friend who shoots for pleasure in Virginia and North Carolina that NC's training requirements for guns are practically worthless. 

We've been talking about school shootings here, but they're not the only source of gun violence in this country.


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## GotGarlic (Jun 12, 2014)

Bigjim68 said:


> I have to ask, GG.  Have you actually been to a gun show in VA?  I have, lots of them, both here and in NC.  I have yet to see a pickup full of gangbangers from NY loading up guns out of a semi and taking off for NY.  Security is tight, and any such activity would be immediately investigated.
> 
> Nearly all the actual arms dealers at these shows are FFL, and are fully vetted by management prior to being allowed to exhibit.  Promoters have far too much to lose if activities as you describe were permitted.  Background checks are made.   Those that are not licensed are vendors selling antique firearms or non gun related items.



No, I haven't. I'm not comfortable around thousands of guns. I was referring to news reports from 20+ years ago, before Virginia passed the one-handgun-a-month law, since repealed. 

I've also seen video of Colin Goddard, a survivor of the massacre at Virginia Tech, buying handguns and rifles, in some cases without even showing ID, with cash, without a background check, at gun shows across the country, to show how easy it is. It's his mission in life to close the loophole where people can buy firearms at gun shows without a background check.


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## Bigjim68 (Jun 12, 2014)

GotGarlic said:


> No, I haven't. I'm not comfortable around thousands of guns. I was referring to news reports from 20+ years ago, before Virginia passed the one-handgun-a-month law, since repealed.
> 
> I've also seen video of Colin Goddard, a survivor of the massacre at Virginia Tech, buying handguns and rifles, in some cases without even showing ID, with cash, without a background check, at gun shows across the country, to show how easy it is. It's his mission in life to close the loophole where people can buy firearms at gun shows without a background check.



If you are going to make broad statements concerning massive quantities of weapons being sold for cash NQA in gun show parking lots, then invite people down to see for themselves, it might be a good idea to be prepared to back the statement.  I am also a recreational and self defense weapons owner legal in both states, and I am not prepared to comment on the worthlessness of gun laws in either state.  They work for me.  I have not seen sales of guns without a background check, and have not seen the video of which you speak.  Again, no comment from me on something I have not seen.

That Cho thing:  Cho purchased his weapons under the 1 gun a month law, from a bricks and mortar store, 31 days apart, and passed a background check both times, used stock 10 round magazines, and committed the murders in a gun free zone.  The flaw is/was the medical privacy laws, which precludes the dissimenation of medical data to databases.


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## cave76 (Jun 12, 2014)

I'm enjoying this spirited conversation by all members but the last couple of posts piqued my curiousity about gun shows.

 So I went to Wikipedia. Yeah I know but people who are interested in the topic can change the entries, which can be changed back again by someone who wants to counter the last entry.  So it IS the 'people's dictionary' in that sense and anything posted there is under scrutiny for veracity by others. 

So, read Wiki about gun shows:

Gun shows in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## taxlady (Jun 12, 2014)

Alix said:


> I hesitate to mention this as it might start a riot around here, but um...how about making firearms less accessible? I get that its in your constitution to bear arms, but it seems to me that if you can't get a gun you can't shoot anyone. Its like keeping other dangerous items away from your kids. You turn pot handles to the inside of the range so toddlers can't yank on them, you put plug covers on outlets so they can't stick things in there. If they can't get at the dangerous items they can't use them.
> 
> Also, sorry folks, I'm pretty Canadian here. The only guns I've seen are on the hips of our police. I've held one (because my best friend is a cop) and I've shot a BB gun, but if I wanted to buy a handgun I would have to look pretty hard to find one, and then the hoops I'd have to jump through are significant. Finding any kind of automatic or semi automatic would be far more difficult.
> 
> ...


That's why I haven't written a diary since I was a teenager. Not only did she read it, she repeated parts of it and laughed at me.


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## Bigjim68 (Jun 12, 2014)

cave76 said:


> I'm enjoying this spirited conversation by all members but the last couple of posts piqued my curiousity about gun shows.
> 
> So I went to Wikipedia. Yeah I know but people who are interested in the topic can change the entries, which can be changed back again by someone who wants to counter the last entry.  So it IS the 'people's dictionary' in that sense and anything posted there is under scrutiny for veracity by others.
> 
> ...



Thanks.

The Wiki assessment is pretty much as my personal experience at gun shows.  My questions were not intended as a comment on gun shows, but rather a question about sweeping blanket statements about anything with no supporting evidence.

This is a cooking forum, and I come here for cooking stuff.  If anyone is interested  in the 2nd, PM me and I will direct you to other sites with proponents of both sides of the 2nd argument.  I would guess you would find the discussions spirited. 

Meanwhile, I've to go cook dinner.


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## cave76 (Jun 12, 2014)

Bigjim68 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> The Wiki assessment is pretty much as my personal experience at gun shows.  My questions were not intended as a comment on gun shows, but rather a question about sweeping blanket statements about anything with* no supporting evidence.*
> 
> ...



I wasn't doubting you and I understood what your issue was. I have a background in science where supporting evidence is absolutely necessary to back up a statement. It's good that you offer, off site, some supporting evidence that hopefully aren't just testimonials.

Testimonials, which may or may not be true, are often is just what happened to one person or a group of similar minds. It needs more than that to have some real teeth in it. A citation of the VA rules about gun shows and how they're enforced would have teeth. (Of course just because it's a law doesn't mean that law isn't broke, sadly.)

Now, I'll go shopping for the food for my dinner.  *And your're right, this was all just a segue.*  Thanks for your contribution.


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## GotGarlic (Jun 12, 2014)

Bigjim68 said:


> If you are going to make broad statements concerning massive quantities of weapons being sold for cash NQA in gun show parking lots, then invite people down to see for themselves, it might be a good idea to be prepared to back the statement.  I am also a recreational and self defense weapons owner legal in both states, and I am not prepared to comment on the worthlessness of gun laws in either state.  They work for me.  I have not seen sales of guns without a background check, and have not seen the video of which you speak.  Again, no comment from me on something I have not seen.



I described my understanding of the situation, just as you described yours. 



Bigjim68 said:


> That Cho thing:  Cho purchased his weapons under the 1 gun a month law, from a bricks and mortar store, 31 days apart, and passed a background check both times, used stock 10 round magazines, and committed the murders in a gun free zone.  The flaw is/was the medical privacy laws, which precludes the dissimenation of medical data to databases.



I agree that much work needs to be done to prevent people who by law should not own guns from obtaining them.


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## Cooking Goddess (Jun 12, 2014)

No one has mentioned media coverage. I think that also contributes to the increase in mass shootings. Just one way to become "famous" because you'll be on TV - that might be the way a person with low self-esteem sees it.

Also, Wiki has a list of how many school shootings have occurred in the U.S. over the centuries. Yup, centuries. It doesn't include other mass shootings like Gabby Gifford or the Aurora movie theater shooter. At quick glance it seems that the majority of shootings that occurred prior to around the mid-60s were single-victim and were probably because of issues with that single victim. Now they seem to be shootings at large gatherings and purely for the heck of it. OR a perceived slight because of the view of the shooter as needing to "get back" at society. That goes back to the issue of identifying, treating, and managing people with mental illnesses.

Also, like pac said, more laws won't assure us of more safety. Let's first start enforcing those laws already on the books and, even more, start punishing those who break the laws. As far as making parents BE parents? I haven't the answer to that one.


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## Cooking Goddess (Jun 12, 2014)

GotGarlic said:


> ...I agree that much work needs to be done to prevent people who by law should not own guns from obtaining them.


Don't forget there is also the problem of someone getting their hands on guns owned by someone WITH legally obtained guns. Newtown, Chardon, one of the most recent shootings...they all managed to get their gun from those owned by a family member. Maybe is is time to punish the parents for the crimes of their children if this is going to happen.


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## taxlady (Jun 12, 2014)

Aren't there laws about locking up your guns and ammo and making sure they don't fall into the hands of others?


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jun 12, 2014)

taxlady said:


> Aren't there laws about locking up your guns and ammo and making sure they don't fall into the hands of others?



No, unless you count that mine are behind my locked doors.  If I had a child in the house, I would not HAVE to lock them up any better than they are now.  But, I would have the good sense to teach my child about guns and make sure they do not have access to them without parental supervision.


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## GotGarlic (Jun 12, 2014)

Cooking Goddess said:


> Don't forget there is also the problem of someone getting their hands on guns owned by someone WITH legally obtained guns. Newtown, Chardon, one of the most recent shootings...they all managed to get their gun from those owned by a family member. Maybe is is time to punish the parents for the crimes of their children if this is going to happen.



I haven't forgotten that. I said previously that gun violence can't be eliminated in this country. However, I believe it can be reduced. There is not a single solution to the problem.


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