# Thanksgiving Turkey



## Crestman (Oct 2, 2006)

Well, this weekend is Thanksgiving Day (Monday the 9th) which means turkey!

We have always had the standard turkey with stuffing inside. However, not long ago I had seen an episode of Good Eats with Alton Brown and he was talking about the stuffing drying out the turkey. I have the recipe from his show's website and was wondering what you all think about it? The episode was called "Romancing the bird (A Good Eats Thanksgiving).

Is it better to roast covered or uncovered? And, how long does it take to thaw out a 15pound turkey and what is the best method for this process (i.e. do you let it thaw in the fridge, or on the counter)

Thanks!

Keith


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## Andy M. (Oct 2, 2006)

That's a very good recipe. I always cook the stuffing outside the turkey.  The best way to defrost a turkey is over several days in the fridge.  Or, in a large container (bathtub, sink, plastic tub, etc. with cold running water.

AB also did another show where he described a method for stuffing a turkey so it would still cook up moist.  It involved preparing the stuffing and heating it in the microwave before putting it into the bird.  Look up the FoodTV recipe for details.


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## jennyema (Oct 2, 2006)

His point not that stuffing itself dries out a turkey, but that if a turkey is stuffed, you must ensure that the stuffing reaches an internal temperature of 165 for it to be safe to eat.  Remember, it's bread soaked with raw poultry juice.

In order for the stuffing to get to 165, the turkey needs to cook longer than it needs to for the meat to get done.  In other words, the turkey will be dry and overcooked by the time the stuffing is safe to eat.

One solution is to remove the stuffing when the turkey is done and put it into a baking dish and finish cooking it in the oven (to 165).

Me, I prefer to fill the cavity of my turkey with aromatics and stale bread soaked in white wine and make my stuffing with the giblet broth and bake separately.


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## vagriller (Oct 2, 2006)

Crestman said:
			
		

> Well, this weekend is Thanksgiving Day (Monday the 9th) which means turkey!



Really!

Is Thanksgiving different in Canada?


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## kitchenelf (Oct 2, 2006)

AB's recipe is a good one.  I also make my stuffing/dressing outside the bird.  I fill my cavity with a cut apple, cut onion, and sherry (makes the BEST gravy - except if there are children involved - they want your basic gravy and their tastebuds really don't appreciate sherry   - yea, I know this for a fact and felt terrible that I totally ruined my son's Thanksgiving - he's never been the same  )

Anyway, I make a shield for my turkey breast that I make before the turkey goes in the oven with aluminum foil.  Make it to fit the top of the bird, breast only, remove it keeping the curved shape.  When the bird is starting to brown too fast or has sufficiently browned just place the shield over that part only.  

I also like to stuff under the skin some butter and some of those same herbs, lemon, and orange slices.  It looks awesome when the turkey is done and adds more flavor to that white meat.

Another great way to add flavor is, like I used the sherry above, is to use apple juice to baste with.  Gives a great flavor to the gravy and turkey.

Oh, and as many people that post to this you will probably get that many variations on how to cook a turkey


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## kitchenelf (Oct 2, 2006)

vagriller said:
			
		

> Really!
> 
> Is Thanksgiving different in Canada?



ok, I snikkered just a tad - and I will also say that until I started hanging out on the internet about 7 or 8 or so years ago, unless you have some Canadian friends, one would have absolutely no reason to know this.

They celebrate their harvest, just like our original Thanksgiving was for, only the Canadians did not invite the Pilgrims.


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## vagriller (Oct 2, 2006)

kitchenelf said:
			
		

> ok, I snikkered just a tad - and I will also say that until I started hanging out on the internet about 7 or 8 or so years ago, unless you have some Canadian friends, one would absolutely no reason to know this.
> 
> They celebrate their harvest, just like our original Thanksgiving was for, only the Canadians did not invite the Pilgrims.


Yep, googled it. Thanksgiving in Canada is the second Monday of Oct. It makes sense though, if you mwait much longer up there people get snowed in, right?http://www.ninjamicros.com/forums/images/smilies/Snowmobile.gif


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## kitchenelf (Oct 2, 2006)

Yep - their harvest is definately before ours and can you imagine carrying all that food on snowmobiles?????

I have to add that I remember when I asked the exact same question in the exact same startled way!!!!!  lol  Brought back the memory of that silly joke - Does England have a July 4th?


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## jkath (Oct 2, 2006)

I'm wondering about how on earth you could eat a Thanksgiving meal on a Monday and waddle into work the next day! 

I'm also a stuffing-outside-the-bird person. I stuff the bird with a quartered navel orange & 2 Tbsp or so of rubbed sage. It makes a lovely gravy, and I use the drippings to saute the onions/celery for the stuffing.


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## Crestman (Oct 2, 2006)

Thanks for all the replies!

If you don't mind, I'll ask a couple more questions.

I will give AB's recipe a try and do some stuffing on the side. Now, can someone tell me where I might find candied ginger and allspice berries? I have used "normal" ginger on occasion, and have also used allspice, but not in berry form.

Could someone give me a low down on doing gravy based on AB's recipe?

Thanks again!

BTW - jkath, we usually do the dinner on Sunday... 

Keith


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## Mr. D (Oct 2, 2006)

Just A Quick Note On Your Turkey. Try Covering the Breast with bacon, Then Removing the bacon Just before you finish to give you a nice crisp skin. Not exactly healthy but yummy.


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## jennyema (Oct 2, 2006)

Crestman,

You needn't be a slave to the exact recipe. What he describes in that episode is more a _method_, than an exact recipe.

I have used that recipe a bazillion times, but never used the ginger. Sometimes I have used allspice berries, but what I usually use for turkey are soy sauce, garlic, onion, peppercorns, and sage.

They key to his recipe is brining the turkey. Brining will make the meat more juicy and will also season it with the salt/sugar solution and whatever herbs and spices you add to the brine.

If you like ginger and allspice for your turkey, by all means go for it. They sell allspice berries in the supermarket -- it's just whole rather than ground. I haven't used candied ginger, but I know Penzey's has it.

But don't be afraid to flavor the brine with other stuff that you like better or is more readily available.

I have also made gravy a bazillion times using this recipe. The pan drippings will be saltier than usual, so prepare some broth from the giblets _without salt_ to use in gravy making.


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## Katie H (Oct 2, 2006)

We're a stuffing-in-the-bird family.  But, before I cook the bird, I brine it per the instructions in the November/December 2004 issue of _Cook's Illustrated._

Then, for the last 5 years or so, I melt about 2 or 3 sticks of unsalted butter and mix with about 5 cups of good chardonnay and soak several thicknesses of cheesecloth in it.  Before I put the turkey in the oven, I drape the breast and legs with the butter/wine-soaked cheesecloth, about 2 layers.  Any of the wine/butter mixture left is used to baste the turkey.  I leave the cheesecloth on until the turkey is done.  Once done, I remove the cheesecloth, which is now a nice walnut color and put it in my stock that has been reduced, which I make using roasted turkey necks.  The flavor from the cheesecloth and the color from it help to make the most awesome gravy.  I use the stock mixture as my gravy base, along with pan drippings.

Note to self:  Get more cheesecloth before U.S. Thanksgiving.


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## Andy M. (Oct 2, 2006)

Candied ginger is in the baking isle of the supermarket and also in the spice aisle.  The allspice berries are also in the spice isle.  Strangely enough, the candied ginger in the baking dept. is cheaper than the candied ginger in the spice rack.

The important parts of the AB recipe are teh preparation and the roasting.  The flavors are up to you.


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## ella/TO (Oct 2, 2006)

I also am a Canadian who does the turkey any day of that weekend that's convenient for me,the cook and our guests. I always make the stuffing OUT of the bird....far healthier. I baste it with the turkey drippings.
I have a question though. I did this a couple of years ago, and can't remember exactly how I did the following. Roast the bird, then immediately wrap it in foil and put it in the deep freeze until the day, usually the next day, that you're going to have it for dinner....I really can't remember exactly what to do though.....anyone?????????


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## Crestman (Oct 2, 2006)

I think what I would like to accomplish is to have nice (mild) flavor (I'm not sure ginger would be something everyone would appreciate?) but most importantly is a juicy bird when I'm done. I have an electronic probe that I will use so I don't overcook it. 

My mother (and grandmother) has always done Turkey in a covered roaster, but it sounds as though it should be uncovered with the employment of foil "guards" for the top or breast? I'm sure this would give me the nice crust I really love.

I'm sure the turkey needs to be completely thawed before brining right?

Boy am I getting hungry for the turkey!!!!

Keith


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## jkath (Oct 2, 2006)

Crestman said:
			
		

> BTW - jkath, we usually do the dinner on Sunday...
> 
> Keith



Now that makes more sense!

BTW, Andy's right about the ginger - the market usually has it in two places, priced differently! After you use the candied ginger, keep it on hand for the next time you are a bit nauseated. Really! It helps calm down the tummy.


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## VeraBlue (Oct 2, 2006)

The following is an announcement from your neighbourhood serv-safe sponsor...Please defrost in the fridge or under running water, never on the counter.  

Now...once your turkey is thawed, get a couple of gallons of apple cider, a box of kosher salt, granulated garlic, poultry seasoning and pepper.  Rinse the turkey and place it in a pot big enough to hold it.  If you don't have a pot this big, a brand new bucket will suffice.  Pour the cider over the chicken and add about 3 cups of kosher salt and all the other herbs, about 1/4 c. of each.   Let the turkey soak in the brine for a day, in the fridge.

I always stuff the bird.  I like the flavour that they get from each other.  My own preference, do it your way.  If you choose to stuff, please don't do it till you are ready to roast.

I start with the turkey covered loosely, and then uncover for the last hour to crisp the skin.

Happy Thanksgiving.


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## Alix (Oct 2, 2006)

Crestman, I have to say...try brining. Now I know that you will get a lot of people saying to either do it or not to do it, but we tried it and will never go back. Vera has given you a really lovely sounding brine. All I ever do is toss the turkey in my stockpot, fill with water and toss a couple handfuls of brown sugar and a couple of coarse salt in there. Leave that overnight, and then stuff and cook that birdie. (PS, not sure how cold it is in SK right now, but at night its hovering around 0 here so I leave mine on the deck to brine rather than in the fridge. Never enough room in there)

jkath, see? Canadians are so smart we have our Thanksgiving on the weekend so we can eat like little piggies on Sunday and spend the day recovering on Monday.


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## Andy M. (Oct 2, 2006)

Alix said:
			
		

> ...jkath, see? Canadians are so smart we have our Thanksgiving on the weekend so we can eat like little piggies on Sunday and spend the day recovering on Monday.


 

Very clever!

We end up having our Thanksgiving on a Thursday every year and have to spend four days at home relaxing and watching football.


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## amber (Oct 2, 2006)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> Very clever!
> 
> We end up having our Thanksgiving on a Thursday every year and have to spend four days at home relaxing and watching football.



And eating turkey sandwiches, turkey soup, turkey everything


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## kitchenelf (Oct 2, 2006)

Let me say that you need to really be careful with the amount of salt you use in your brine.  

Let's say you use *2 gallons of apple* juice/cider - to that I wouldn't add more than *3/4 cup to 1 cup of kosher salt*.  Too much salt in the brine will make a VERY salty gravy.  I would use *1 cup of packed brown sugar*, *3 limes* cut in half, squeezed, and add lime itself to juice, *3 or 4 oranges* done the same as the limes, *10 or so garlic cloves* peeled and smashed, *a box thyme*, fresh, about *5 stalks of fresh rosemary* 4 - 5 inches long each, and a few *bay leaves*.

Heat everything in a pot until salt and brown sugar are dissolved.  COOL COMPLETELY before adding turkey.  I make mine early the day before so it has plenty of time to cool.

The best results I get is if I marinate/brine the bird for no LESS than 24 hours.    I'm talking a 17# - 22# bird.  

Anyway - this is as close as I can remember to what I do.


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## Andy M. (Oct 2, 2006)

That sounds like a good brine.  I found you can reduce the saltiness of the bird and gravy by rinsing off the bird aftrer you take it out of the brine then drying it off.

When I make two gallons of brine, I start with a gallon of vegetable broth at double strength and add the flavorings, cook it up and cool it down with a gallon of ice cubes.  That give you the right concentrations of ingredients and a cool brine.

You could do the same with the apple juice/cider by freezing half of it and adding it to the cooked mixture.  

The benefit is just to have the brine ready faster if you're running late.  (I always am)


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## kitchenelf (Oct 2, 2006)

I do rinse and pat dry - that is key.  I just really almost screwed up the gravy the first year I did it by waaaay too much salt!  You get the oysters out of the back after it's done and it has the most wonderful apple flavor!  GREAT idea on freezing half of the cider/juice - DUH!!!!  I just hope I remember it for this Thanksgiving - surely I will - what a timesaver!!!!!!!  Thanks for that tip Andy!  

I do the bird in the trash bag in the cooler method - or if it will fit in my VERY biggest stock pot I will do that.  A friend of mine (bless her) didn't put her trash bag in anything - went to the airport to pick up her sister - icky, sticky, salty, TURKEY, brine all over her kitchen floor wicking up into her living room carpet.  YUCK!


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## Crestman (Oct 2, 2006)

Wow...All these ideas sound great!!!!

When you guys say apple juice/cider, which is it? Juice or cider? I have a container in the fridge that says apple cider vinegar, and also have a carton that says apple juice. Sorry if the question sounds strange!! 

Alix, it's for sure cold enough to have the turkey outside...Just have to make sure the cat's don't get into it!!

Keith


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## Alix (Oct 2, 2006)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> Very clever!
> 
> We end up having our Thanksgiving on a Thursday every year and have to spend four days at home relaxing and watching football.


 
Andy, we're all workaholics up here dontcha know.  Couldn't take THAT much time off. Besides, I hear you just have that extra day off to go shopping...

Edit...Keith, put a brick on the top of your stock pot and that should do it. It keeps my Golden out of there, and my kitties too.


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## Alix (Oct 2, 2006)

Crestman said:
			
		

> Wow...All these ideas sound great!!!!
> 
> When you guys say apple juice/cider, which is it? Juice or cider? I have a container in the fridge that says apple cider vinegar, and also have a carton that says apple juice. Sorry if the question sounds strange!!
> 
> Keith


 
Keith, use apple juice. Apple cider vinegar is WAY different. You can buy apple cider if you want (its like apple beer sort of) but apple juice is just as good.


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## VeraBlue (Oct 3, 2006)

Crestman said:
			
		

> Wow...All these ideas sound great!!!!
> 
> When you guys say apple juice/cider, which is it? Juice or cider? I have a container in the fridge that says apple cider vinegar, and also have a carton that says apple juice. Sorry if the question sounds strange!!
> 
> ...



I prefer the cider, it's works better.  I recently used juice and barely noticed the flavours.   Vinegar is not the same as juice or cider on any level!

I've never had a problem with saltiness with the amount of salt I use...perhaps the cider cuts it, but never had a problem.  I don't use the brine for gravy, I always toss that out.


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## jennyema (Oct 3, 2006)

kitchenelf said:
			
		

> Let me say that you need to really be careful with the amount of salt you use in your brine.
> 
> Let's say you use *2 gallons of apple* juice/cider - to that I wouldn't add more than *3/4 cup to 1 cup of kosher salt*. Too much salt in the brine will make a VERY salty gravy. .


 

It's actually important to use a good amount of salt when you brine. The ratio is usually 3/4-1 cup of kosher salt (or 1/2 cup table salt) to 1 gallon of water.  The AB recipe in question uses 1 cup of salt to 2 cups of liquid.  I think that's a bit light, but I wouldn't use less than 1 cup.  And perhaps more if you are using Diamond Crystal brand, which has the largest size crystals.

Salt in the brine does not automatically mean salty gravy.  You need to rinse the bird, air dry it completely and add unsalted liquid to the bottom of the pan.  When making gravy, I have found it very easy to make gravy by deglazing the pan, defatting the drippings, tasting to judge saltiness and then _using unsalted giblet broth_ to balance out the liquid for gravy-making.  This works for me even when I use a lot of salt in my brine.  Made some excellent gravy from a brined chicken (using loads of salt) 2 weekends ago, though I did use Bisquick when I found I had no flour on hand.

One caveat about a brined turkey is that if you stuff it the stuffing can be quite salty, as it is soaking in all the poultry juices.

And, Crestman, you don't need to keep cider vinegar in the fridge.  It's already gone bad.


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## Gretchen (Oct 3, 2006)

I have always cooked my bread stuffing inside the bird and it is delicious. I make another "dressing" (that is "stuffing" cooked outside the bird) from cornbread, so we have two.
I also prefer not to brine poultry.
You will need to have your turkey in the fridge today to be thawing by the week-end!! It takes a long time.


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## Crestman (Oct 3, 2006)

jennyema said:
			
		

> And, Crestman, you don't need to keep cider vinegar in the fridge. It's already gone bad.



Oooops!!...O well it shouldn't hurt it though hey??



			
				Gretchen said:
			
		

> You will need to have your turkey in the fridge today to be thawing by the week-end!! It takes a long time.



I'll yank that sucker out of the freezer as soon as I get home!!!...Thanks.


Keith


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## Crestman (Oct 10, 2006)

Well the darn bird wasn't thawed out enough Friday night to get it into a brine and our supper was Saturday night. So, maybe I'll try the brine next time. 

On a side note, I ended up cooking the bird upside down!!!...After about 1hour of resting, I started to cut in and found there to be very little meat...Was I mad. Anyway, after complaining about getting a bad bird for a few minutes, I noticed that there was more meat underneath....When I flipped it over walla!!!...Breasts!...hehe. Only problem with this was there wasn't a nice brown crispy skin over the breast which I like. But all was well and it was a nice meal. Mom must have been laughing it up inside...

Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions and advice. It WILL come in handy next time. 

(Note to self: a 16lb Turkey takes at least 4 days in the fridge to un-thaw)

Happy Thanksgiving Canada!!

Keith


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## Alix (Oct 10, 2006)

Keith, you can put a partially frozen bird in the brine. Especially if it is going to be refrigerated. The salt helps it to thaw more quickly.


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## Barb L. (Oct 10, 2006)

*Did you know?*

Maybe you do-- I worked for a chain grocery store for 16 yrs., when I was working in the meat dept. at the holiday time, a customer came in who used to raise turkeys!  She said there is more meat on two twelve lb turkeys than a big 20-+bird!  My brother also cooks for a family of about 17-20 ppl.and always bought the biggest bird he could find. They took my advice, now they have plenty! There are times he deep fries one and roast the other.  Yum !


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