# Am I REALLY not allowed to stuff the turkey?!?!?!



## lisaluvstocook (Oct 16, 2011)

Ok, here's the deal. I am 37, and I have been gifted Thanksgiving by my mother. I was pretty sure that I would have to pry the turkey from her cold, dead hands, but I digress. I am doing the main cooking this year, and serving at my house. I am a pretty decent cook, and I have a good grasp of flavors and I am a pro at asking Google to answer any questions that I may have. I am confident in my sides, but this will be my first time roasting an entire turkey. My roasted chicken is slappin, but this is literally a different bird! There are a few things that I am unsure of, and I would like to ask some of you more experienced cooks/chefs for some guidance. 

My mom cooks her turkey in a bag. I know, don't stone her. It is relatively juicy, but not exceptionally flavorful, and depending on the year the label of 'juicy' could be a bit of a stretch! I am pretty sure that I have settled on a recipe, as well as a brine to ensure the flavor and moisture retention. However, I am having a serious, and I mean serious, problem with the fact that every online resource tells me that I can not stuff the bird! That is absolutely, positively, my favorite part of Thanksgiving, the yummy dressing infused with turkey juice goodness that comes from inside the bird. My siblings and I fight over it every year. If I put some bird stuffing in a leftover bowl with oven dressing, I can tell the difference by sight and will pick it out until it is gone. Everything I read/hear says that the bacterial risk is too high, and to cook the stuffing to correct temperature will dry out the bird. 

So I guess my question is two-fold:

1. Is it truly, really possible to make an obnoxiously succulent, juicy bird without the dreaded "bag"?

2. Please can I stuff my bird and still have it positively moist and mom-worthy? Pretty please?

This is serious business people. If there is so much and the SLIGHTEST fault in my bird, my mother will find it and take out a front page ad in the local paper. I am actually making a test bird in the next week or two, and maybe one more if I don't get it right. By the time I make it to Thanksgiving I won't even want turkey! Yes, it* is* that serious. Any guidance would be appreciated!!!! Thanks all!


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## Zhizara (Oct 16, 2011)

By all means stuff the bird.  After dinner, remove any stuffing (if any) from the bird and go ahead and strip the meat and save the carcass for making stock/soup.

Don't deprive yourself of in the bird stuffing.  Extra stuffing on the side is delicious, but the stuffing from the bird is heaven!


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## bakechef (Oct 16, 2011)

I don't stuff.

But the brine will buy you some insurance.  I would make sure to use a thermometer to take the temperature of the stuffing inside the bird when the bird is done.  You will likely have to get the bird above 180 degrees in order to get the stuffing to a safe 165.  Your bird will likely be less juicy cooking above 180, but the brine will help.

I grew up eating stuffing out of a bird, but my mom's bird sounded a lot like your moms, kind of hit or miss from year to year when it comes to juiciness.

I used the Pioneer Woman's brine last year on a turkey breast and it was amazing, I have used Alton Brown's and it was great as well.

I don't see any reason why you would need to roast in a bag, I don't see the point other than speeding up the process.  I just use an uncovered roaster, and cover with foil for most of the roast and let it brown for the last hour or so,


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## Janet H (Oct 16, 2011)

I have had the best luck stuffing the 'head end' of the turkey but not the main cavity.  Here's the reasoning... Stuffing the head end slows down the cooking of the breast which is prone to be dry when over cooked.  Stuff the main cavity loosely with some thow-away flavor enhancers.  Some onion and apple wedges, some celery pieces, a few garlic cloves, etc. If you want to present a big beautiful turkey at the table stuff the opening of the main cavity with a bunch of fresh parsley.

Good luck....


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## Dawgluver (Oct 16, 2011)

Butterball hotline is your friend!  No bag needed!

Stuff away.  As Zhizara said, dig it out before you store the bird.  We survived many years with turkey butt stuffing.  Though I admit, I preferred the separately baked stuffing as there were (perceived) gross things in the other.  

It obviously takes longer to cook a stuffed turkey.  The directions on the package will give you a good reference.

My BIL worked for Butterball for many years.  His turkey was always wonderful, though he has taken to cooking only the breasts for the last couple of years.


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## lisaluvstocook (Oct 16, 2011)

bakechef said:


> I used the Pioneer Woman's brine last year on a turkey breast and it was amazing, I have used Alton Brown's and it was great as well.


 
Funny, Alton Brown's recipe is exactly the one that I am looking at, it has almost 4k reviews, almost all 5 stars. Skipping the crystallized ginger though, I am personally not a fan of most forms of ginger.


Thanks to all of you for the feedback! I really, and I mean really, wanna stuff the bird, but I also don't want to miss the opportunity to flavor the meat from the inside with such yumminess as garlic, apple, onions, fresh herbs and the like. Ugh, dilemmas!


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## bakechef (Oct 16, 2011)

lisaluvstocook said:


> Funny, Alton Brown's recipe is exactly the one that I am looking at, it has almost 4k reviews, almost all 5 stars. Skipping the crystallized ginger though, I am personally not a fan of most forms of ginger.
> 
> 
> Thanks to all of you for the feedback! I really, and I mean really, wanna stuff the bird, but I also don't want to miss the opportunity to flavor the meat from the inside with such yumminess as garlic, apple, onions, fresh herbs and the like. Ugh, dilemmas!



You won't really taste the ginger, I think it just kind of rounds out the flavor.  In all honesty you might not miss it if you skip it.

If you have a Trader Joe's nearby they have a decent price on vegetable stock, since you will need quite a lot of it!


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## PattY1 (Oct 16, 2011)

*Am I REALLY not allowed to stuff the turkey?!?!?!

Stuff your turkey if you want. People have been doing it for years. No one I know has ever gotten sick or died. "The Food Police"will not come arrest you if you do. *View attachment 12238


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## Andy M. (Oct 16, 2011)

I follow the Good Eats Thanksgiving turkey recipe.  Last year's turkey was the best I've ever eaten (and I'm collecting Social Security).  It was juicy and delicious.

I don't stuff the turkey, but I do make stuffing.  I cook the stuffing in a roasting pan separate from the turkey.  I moisten it with turkey stock I have made.  If you really like the turkey juices in the stuffing, spoon them out of the turkey pan and add them to the stuffing so they can cook together.  If you want a crust on the stuffing, don't cover the pan.  If you want soft stuffing, cover the pan.  No one will taste a difference.

That's what I prefer.  However, if you can't be happy unless you can scoop stuffing out of the cooked bird, stuff the turkey.  Sounds like you're going to be cooking a very big bird.  That's going to make it even harder to get it right.  There will be a soccer ball-sized wad of stuffing in the middle of the bird that has to cook through while the breast meat gets drier and drier.

Brining offers you your best chance by far of turkey success.


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## SherryDAmore (Oct 16, 2011)

Stuffing the turkey will slow down the cooking....if you like the soft, moist stuffing that usually comes from the bird, try putting it in a slow cooker on low, and tie a towel around the lid to keep the moisture from dripping into the dressing.  I do this every year, and its the way to go.  Also, you get a lot more stuffing!


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## PattY1 (Oct 17, 2011)

Andy M. said:


> There will be a soccer ball-sized wad of stuffing in the middle of the bird that has to cook through while the breast meat gets drier and drier.



I have to ask. I will probably smack my forehead when I get a reply. But, What about Bread, Celery, onions, broth and spices needs to cook through?


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## PrincessFiona60 (Oct 17, 2011)

If it is put into a raw turkey, it will have to come up to 160 degrees to be safe to eat.


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## ChefJune (Oct 17, 2011)

lisaluvs2cook:  Of course you can stuff the turkey if you want to, but it will take you several extra hours to roast it.  I hope you have a convection feature on your oven.

I have NEVER brined my turkey nor cooked it in a bag, and it ALWAYS comes out moist and flavorful.

PM me and I will gladly send you my recipes.  They're awfully long to paste into a post.


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef (Oct 17, 2011)

If you are going to cook the stuffing inside the turkey, don't brine it! The stuffing will be very salty. 

When cooking a stuffed turkey, you really will require two probe thermometers; one for the thigh of the turkey (180F), and one for the stuffing (165F). Do not rely on the little plastic plug-in that comes with the turkey. Sometimes they pop early, and sometimes they never pop at all.

I used to cook all my turkeys in a Reynolds cooking bag, and they always came out moist and flavourful, but two years ago I invested in a Rival 18 quart electric turkey roaster and I've never looked back. Not only does it do a wonderful job of cooking the turkey, but it frees up the oven for the potatoes, casseroles, and pies!

I usually pick up at least three extra turkeys just before Thanksgiving when the grocery stores are practically giving them away free fer nuthin, toss them into the deep freeze, and cook them periodically during the rest of the year. I like turkey!


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## Rob Babcock (Oct 17, 2011)

I always stuff the turkey.  While it's true that it could cause problems for people with compromised immune systems, I've eaten stuffed turkeys every year for well over three decades with no problems.  My advice is to stuff the bird with hot stuffing.  That will help shave a bit of cooking time off.

I also give a big thumbs up to brining the turkey.  True, you may want to cut back on the salt in the stuffing but brining will really help keep your bird juicy.  I like to brine mine in a 5 gallon bucket- you can fit a big bird in there and the shape allows a small amount of liquid to brine a very large turkey.

While I mostly hate winter, the cold at least allows me to use my front entry way as a walk in cooler!  Last Thanksgiving I chilled the brine on my front steps, then put the bird in the brine along with a thermometer probe and left them in the entry.  At no point did the temp deviate from 34 degrees!  Ended up being the moistest, juiciest turkey I've ever had.


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## cmontg34 (Oct 17, 2011)

For lack of a better term, I'm a bit of a food safety nazi. So personally, I always say no to stuffing the turkey. But if it's really means a lot to you, maybe you can have the best of both worlds. I've never tried this, truthfully I just thought of it. Why not cook both the turkey and the stuffing separately at first. Cut down on the salt for the stuffing and, if you like it very moist, cut down on a bit of the liquid. Once both the turkey and the stuffing are cooked, put the stuffing in the turkey while it rests. It's got about 15 minutes to suck in that extra turkey flavor. (That's another thing, always let the turkey rest before you carve it! If you cover it with tin foil it will stay piping hot for at least 20 minutes.) Anywho, like I said, I have no idea if it will work, but you could always try it on one of your testers. Trust me, your turkey and stuffing could be the best in the whole world, but if everyone gets food poisoning from it...well your mom my just invest in the full newspaper. Good luck!


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## Aunt Bea (Oct 17, 2011)

I was raised on dried out American Mom style turkey and I prefer it.

I cook the celery and onion in butter until it is soft and then add it to my stuffing so the only cooking required is for the eggs I add to bind the stuffing.  I stuff both ends of the bird and make a casserole of dressing with the surplus.

The only thing I must have is Bell's poultry seasoning!

If I have time I make the bread used in the stuffing and add a couple of tablespoons of Bell's to the flour.  If not I add it to the butter,onion and celery mixture that I add to fresh bread crumbs and cubes.

Please, pass the gravy


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## Caslon (Oct 17, 2011)

Aunt Bea said:


> I was raised on dried out American Mom style turkey and I prefer it.



By golly you tell 'em. I've had turkey so properly moist, the gravy had nothing to do.


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## Andy M. (Oct 17, 2011)

PattY1 said:


> I have to ask. I will probably smack my forehead when I get a reply. But, What about Bread, Celery, onions, broth and spices needs to cook through?





PrincessFiona60 said:


> If it is put into a raw turkey, it will have to come up to 160 degrees to be safe to eat.




PF is right.  The juices from the turkey drip into and are absorbed by the stuffing.  As a result, it has to be cooked like a raw turkey.


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## bakechef (Oct 17, 2011)

I wouldn't worry too much about the brine making the stuffing too salty,  I make gravy from the droppings of the bribed bird and they are fine, not salty at all.


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## bakechef (Oct 17, 2011)

Aunt Bea said:
			
		

> I was raised on dried out American Mom style turkey and I prefer it.
> 
> I cook the celery and onion in butter until it is soft and then add it to my stuffing so the only cooking required is for the eggs I add to bind the stuffing.  I stuff both ends of the bird and make a casserole of dressing with the surplus.
> 
> ...



BELLS!  It's what I grew up on!  I can finally find it here in the south, the best poultry seasoning ever!  Stuffing just didn't taste right until I started using bells again.

Most recipes that call for sage, I just use bells instead.


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## Andy M. (Oct 17, 2011)

My mother used Bell's.  I want my stuffing to taste like hers.  I use Bell's.  SO suggested Stove Top but I still love her.


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## ChefJune (Oct 17, 2011)

Andy M. said:


> My mother used Bell's. I want my stuffing to taste like hers. I use Bell's. SO suggested Stove Top but I still love her.


 
I SO understand "I want my stuffing to taste like hers."  I want mine to taste like Mama's, and she always used both rubbed and ground sage in her dressing.  And those aren't so easy to find any more. I guess it's because fresh herbs have become so popular. However, if I use fresh sage, it just doesn't taste right.


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## Bigjim68 (Oct 17, 2011)

I grew up, as I suspect many of us here did, in thinking that stuffing always was cooked inside the turkey, and most of us survived the attack of the germs.  

I cook stuffed turkey as a matter of course, and feel that the turkey contributes to the taste of the stuffing, and the stuffing contributes to the taste the turkey.  Generally, I make a side dish of stuffing, and pour in some of the juices from the turkey.

If the turkey was done before the stuffing, easily determined with a thermometer, I would remove the stuffing and add cooking time while the turkey was resting.


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## lyndalou (Oct 17, 2011)

Andy, I'm with you. My mother made hers with Bell's and I prefer it, too. Where do you find it? I have been using Pepperidge Farms, but it's just not the same.

I  make my own stock by buying turkey wings and maybe a drumstick and prepare it ahead of the big day. Makes really good gravy along with drippings.

Man, I can't wait for Thanksgiving.


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## smufafa (Oct 17, 2011)

Excellent - I'm about to embark on trying out my first turkey too!


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## jennyema (Oct 17, 2011)

*Make sure you cook your stuffing to 165*

That's the temp that kills salmonella.  A brined bird will make your stuffing a bit salty, so account for that when you make it up.


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## Andy M. (Oct 17, 2011)

lyndalou said:


> ...Where do you find it? I have been using Pepperidge Farms, but it's just not the same...





Living in MA, I can find it everywhere.  I guess it's not as popular in FL.  I buy a little box of it every November.  I keep it in a jar all year long and replace the old stuff with the new stuff.  One box lasts me all year.


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## qmax (Oct 17, 2011)

I cook the stuffing outside of the bird (because I like putting onion, fresh herbs and citrus fruits in the cavity)


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## jennyema (Oct 17, 2011)

qmax said:


> I cook the stuffing outside of the bird (because I like putting onion, fresh herbs and citrus fruits in the cavity)


 

Thats what I do too.  I also put in stale bread cubes soaked in white whone.


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## Caslon (Oct 17, 2011)

jennyema said:


> Thats what I do too.  I also put in stale bread cubes soaked in white whone.



Is whone the past tense of whine?  

Bells can be ordered online at:

http://www.yankeeharvest.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=SRCH

http://search.store.yahoo.net/famou...ousfoods-store&query=bells+seasoning&x=27&y=4


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## buckytom (Oct 17, 2011)

bakechef said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about the brine making the stuffing too salty,  I make gravy from the droppings of the bribed bird and they are fine, not salty at all.



eek! i sure hope you meant drippings...




stuff away, then when the bird reaches about 150, pull it out of the oven, scoop out the stuffing, and put the bird back in the oven to finish. 

seperately, when the stuffing (plus extra stock lightly soaked breading ) cools just enough to handle, mix in your butter sauteed veggies, meat,  and chopped fruit ( we add mushrooms, celery, onions, turkey sausage, and apples). place into a dee, 13 x 9 glass baking dish, add turkey stock to moisten and top with chunks of butter, and finish cooking to 165.


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## blissful (Oct 17, 2011)

buckytom said:


> eek! i sure hope you meant drippings...


THIS is what happens when you use the past tense of 'whine', or when you drink it.
I needed the laugh.

WAIT, he bribed the bird too?


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## Caslon (Oct 17, 2011)

How about someone coming up food poisoning data in regards to eating stuffing cooked inside the turkey?   

I wasn't able to find any after a long Google search.  It's probably so small they don't keep data on it.

I've never known, heard or read of any in my long past.


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## blissful (Oct 17, 2011)

Caslon said:


> How about someone coming up food poisoning data in regards to eating stuffing cooked inside the turkey?
> 
> I wasn't able to find any after a long Google search.  It's probably so small they don't keep data on it.
> 
> I've never known, heard or read of any in my long past.



I think it is probably difficult to quantify food poisoning data in general because people that have inadvertently poisoned people are ashamed of it and the sick people don't always call the authorities to report it. The sick people that died aren't around to make reports either.

The best advice I read here was to stuff the turkey, brined or not, and use two thermometers to be sure the stuffing is done and the turkey is done.


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## qmax (Oct 17, 2011)

Caslon said:


> How about someone coming up food poisoning data in regards to eating stuffing cooked inside the turkey?
> 
> I wasn't able to find any after a long Google search.  It's probably so small they don't keep data on it.
> 
> I've never known, heard or read of any in my long past.



About 25 years ago, my mother's turkey had the entire family fighting for toilets.


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## bakechef (Oct 17, 2011)

buckytom said:
			
		

> eek! i sure hope you meant drippings...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Auto correct strikes again, LOL!


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## Dawgluver (Oct 17, 2011)

bakechef said:
			
		

> Auto correct strikes again, LOL!



Bakechef, I got a good laugh! Turkey droppings and bribery...


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## Andy M. (Oct 17, 2011)

It's really simple.  All parts of the turkey and all the stuffing must reach a minimum temperature of 161º F to be safe.  So measure the temperature in the middle of the stuffing.  If that's @ 161º F then everything else will be as well.


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## Caslon (Oct 17, 2011)

Andy M. said:


> It's really simple.  All parts of the turkey and all the stuffing must reach a minimum temperature of 161º F to be safe.  So measure the temperature in the middle of the stuffing.  If that's @ 161º F then everything else will be as well.



So let it be written,...


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## blissful (Oct 17, 2011)

Caslon said:


> So let it be written,...




And lettuce be forewarned.


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## CWS4322 (Oct 17, 2011)

America's Test Kitchen had an excellent segment on 10-steps to the perfect turkey. One tip was to line the cavity with cheese cloth and put 2 c of stuffing there, tie the cheese cloth. Start the turkey breast down. When it reaches 130, flip it and ake out the cheese cloth sack. Continue cooking the bird until the temp is 161. Mix the stuffing that was in the pouch with the rest of the stuffing and finish in the oven while the turkey is resting. I imagine you can find the segment on ATK's web site.


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## bakechef (Oct 17, 2011)

Dawgluver said:


> Bakechef, I got a good laugh! Turkey droppings and bribery...



I really need to pay more attention when posting from my phone!


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## PattY1 (Oct 17, 2011)

caslon said:


> by golly you tell 'em. I've had turkey so properly moist, the gravy had nothing to do.




View attachment 12251


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## lisaluvstocook (Oct 17, 2011)

Thank you guys for all the tips and tricks!  I swear imma give myself a stroke worrying about this, I just want it to be perfect.  So obnoxiously perfect that when my mom takes a bite of my turkey, she says "Meh".  Which would mean that the heavens have opened and rained gold upon us, ha.  

One of you mentioned a counter-top roaster, which I have been considering.  I am short on oven space, and am already cooking at minimum my ham on the grill.  I learned that the grill can be used as an oven during a power stealing wind storm a few years ago that happened one hour after I put two chickens in the oven to roast.  I have been researching the roasters, and they seem to be very helpful in providing additional faux oven space.  However, my main concern with them has been their ability to provide a perfectly browned bird?  I think that with all the techniques and recipes that my obsessive research/you lovely people have provided will give me a tasty bird, but dam it I want it to be pretty too!  A pale turkey will be a bullet in the gun for my mom, God love her.


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## Dawgluver (Oct 17, 2011)

Lisa, you will be fine!  We've all been there!  Don't overthink it, the best part is time with family!  (or not...)

And when in doubt, get out the blowtorch.  For the skin, I mean.

And don't forget to take the giblets out of the cavities.


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## purple.alien.giraffe (Oct 17, 2011)

lisaluvstocook said:
			
		

> Thank you guys for all the tips and tricks!  I swear imma give myself a stroke worrying about this, I just want it to be perfect.  So obnoxiously perfect that when my mom takes a bite of my turkey, she says "Meh".  Which would mean that the heavens have opened and rained gold upon us, ha.
> 
> One of you mentioned a counter-top roaster, which I have been considering.  I am short on oven space, and am already cooking at minimum my ham on the grill.  I learned that the grill can be used as an oven during a power stealing wind storm a few years ago that happened one hour after I put two chickens in the oven to roast.  I have been researching the roasters, and they seem to be very helpful in providing additional faux oven space.  However, my main concern with them has been their ability to provide a perfectly browned bird?  I think that with all the techniques and recipes that my obsessive research/you lovely people have provided will give me a tasty bird, but dam it I want it to be pretty too!  A pale turkey will be a bullet in the gun for my mom, God love her.



Take deep breaths and try to relax. Trying too hard and over stressing will only make things more difficult. It sounds like you've done your research and have all the information you need. Good luck and let us know how the practice turkey goes.


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## Aunt Bea (Oct 18, 2011)

lisaluvstocook said:


> Thank you guys for all the tips and tricks!  I swear imma give myself a stroke worrying about this, I just want it to be perfect.  So obnoxiously perfect that when my mom takes a bite of my turkey, she says "Meh".  Which would mean that the heavens have opened and rained gold upon us, ha.




Cut your Mom some slack and make a couple of mistakes!

It's not always easy to pass the holiday traditions on to the next generation.

Above all, relax and have some fun!


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## RPCookin (Oct 19, 2011)

My mother always stuffed the bird.  I have broken away from that tradition.  I find that I have better luck getting the bird cooked properly without having to worry about getting the stuffing done too.  It cooks faster and more predictably, and the stuffing I make outside of the bird gets rave reviews.  I got the basic recipe from Food and Wine magazine.  I like a savory stuffing, so I add sage and rosemary to the thyme in the recipe.  I also find that this recipe overfills the recommended 9x13 pan - I usually have to put some in a smaller Corningware casserole dish.  It cooks up as a moist and wonderful stuffing.

Wild Mushroom Stuffing
Serves 12


  6 tablespoons unsalted butter
  1 1/2 pounds mixed fresh mushrooms, tough stems removed, mushrooms cut into 1-inch pieces
  4 medium shallots, finely chopped
  4 large garlic cloves, minced
  2 large celery ribs, finely chopped
  1 medium onion, chopped
  1 tablespoon minced fresh thyme- (I add about 2 tsp sage and 1 tsp rosemary)
  1 cup dry white wine
  5 cups Chicken Stock or canned low-sodium broth
  Salt and freshly ground pepper
  One 1-pound loaf of peasant bread, cut into 1/2-inch dice and toasted until dry
  2 cups heavy cream
  1/4 cup finely chopped fresh flat-leaf parsley
  3 large eggs, beaten



  In a large nonreactive skillet, melt 5 tablespoons of the butter. Add  the mushrooms and cook over moderately high heat until lightly browned.  Stir in the shallots, garlic, celery, onion and 1 1/2 teaspoons of the  thyme. Cook until all the vegetables are softened slightly. Stir in the  wine and simmer until almost evaporated. Add 2 cups of the Chicken Stock  and simmer over moderate heat until the liquid reduces and thickens,  about 13 minutes. Season with salt and pepper and transfer the mixture  to a large bowl.
  Add the toasted bread to the bowl along with the remaining 3 cups stock  and 1 1/2 teaspoons thyme. Stir in the cream and parsley. Season with  salt and pepper, then stir in the eggs and mix well. Spoon the stuffing  into a buttered 9-by-13-inch glass or ceramic baking dish and dot with  the remaining 1 tablespoon butter.
  Preheat the oven to 350°. Cover the stuffing with foil and bake in the  middle of the oven for 45 minutes. Uncover and bake for about 30 minutes  longer, or until the top is golden and crisp and the stuffing is firm.  Let rest for at least 15 minutes before serving.
  Make Ahead: The stuffing can be refrigerated overnight. Bring to room temperature before baking. Serve With Turkey.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Oct 19, 2011)

Check your private messages.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## CWS4322 (Oct 19, 2011)

I have two of the roasters. I have cooked a turkey in the roaster a few times. You have to make a browning sauce to get it to brown--it doesn't brown in the roaster oven. Or, you could move it to the oven for the last 45 minutes.


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef (Oct 19, 2011)

My turkeys seem to brown just fine. Maybe the top of mine's different? It's shiny and domed.


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## CWS4322 (Oct 19, 2011)

Mind you, I followed the instructions that came with the roasters. I did find that the turkey cooked in less time than in the oven because the roaster oven is smaller.


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## ChefJune (Oct 19, 2011)

CWS4322 said:


> America's Test Kitchen had an excellent segment on 10-steps to the perfect turkey. One tip was to line the cavity with cheese cloth and put 2 c of stuffing there, tie the cheese cloth. Start the turkey breast down. When it reaches 130, flip it and ake out the cheese cloth sack. Continue cooking the bird until the temp is 161. Mix the stuffing that was in the pouch with the rest of the stuffing and finish in the oven while the turkey is resting. I imagine you can find the segment on ATK's web site.


 
That sounds like waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more trouble than it's worth!  If you have a good stock made up ahead, your dressing baked outside the bird will be just as delicious and soft (except for the crust on top) as if you cooked it inside the turkey.

I prefer baking mine separately because my bird is so large (I always go for one that is 20 pounds-plus) it already takes long enough without the dressing inside.  That and even if you take it out there's residue of it left inside that, if the carcass is not refrigerated within enough time, can cause mild food poisoning.

There's not a lot of documentation on mild food poisoning, because most folks mistake it for diarrhea.


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## CWS4322 (Oct 19, 2011)

Because we eat turkey often (about once a month--we buy when they are special and toss in the freezer), I usually just roast the turkey. If we have turkey for Christmas/New Year's/Easter, I will stuff it. Next time I stuff a turkey, I'm going to use the cheesecloth trick. Speaking of turkey, I best go out and herd chickens before it's dark.


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## kronlyn (Oct 24, 2011)

another trick i love to do and will give you the juiciest chicken breast is to use piping bag and pump a herb butter under the skin of the breast it will melt in your mouth.


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## chopper (Oct 24, 2011)

For browning the turkey in the counter top roaster, you need to make sure that it is well thawed, and dried off with paper towels. Don't add any liquid in the roaster. It should brown just fine for you. You can oil the bird, just no liquid. Works for me!  Hope this helps.


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## jennyema (Oct 24, 2011)

ChefJune said:


> That sounds like waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more trouble than it's worth!  If you have a good stock made up ahead, your dressing baked outside the bird will be just as delicious and soft (except for the crust on top) as if you cooked it inside the turkey.
> 
> I prefer baking mine separately because my bird is so large (I always go for one that is 20 pounds-plus) it already takes long enough without the dressing inside.  That and even if you take it out there's residue of it left inside that, if the carcass is not refrigerated within enough time, can cause mild food poisoning.
> 
> There's not a lot of documentation on mild food poisoning, because most folks mistake it for diarrhea.





I Agee on all of your points.


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## dcgator (Oct 25, 2011)

For the juiciest turkey I have ever made I marinate it for up to 7 days prior with Rosemary, kiwi -or other citrus- and a bottle of the driest Chardonnay I have.  Put in a bag in refrigerator and turn every other day to get the wine in every nook and cranny of the turkey.  Superb taste and tenderness.  Use the wine to make gravy.


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## LindaZ (Oct 25, 2011)

I have always stuffed my turkey and everyone is alive and well after eating it. Just don't overstuff it and/or pack the stuffing too tightly in the cavity. I do use a warm stuffing of bread, onions, mushrooms, celery and sausage. I precook the sausage before adding to the stuffing and then use warm stock to moisten it before putting it in the turkey. I also put some stuffing under the skin around the legs and in the small cavity at the other end of the turkey - this turkey is stuffed, believe me.  I baste frequently and never let the little plastic pop up thing tell me my turkey is done - I check the leg and wing for clear juices and mobility, or if it moves away from the body. It's always done, moist and very good. 

(Yes, Frank, sometimes I even remember to turn the oven ON!) ha ha.

Stuff your turkey, and enjoy!


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## Claire (Oct 25, 2011)

I have always stuffed my turkey, as did Mom.  Always a 20+ pounder.  I cannot say enough about  buying a good thermometer, one with a cord.  You put the probe in and it tells you (by alarm) when it is done.  I wish they'd been invented when I was younger.  I always have both stuffing and dressing (simply because I always make too much) and the stuffing goes first.


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## FrankZ (Oct 25, 2011)

LindaZ said:


> (Yes, Frank, sometimes I even remember to turn the oven ON!) ha ha.



Tie a string around yer finger now eh?


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## lisaluvstocook (Oct 30, 2011)

Ok, so Test Turkey day went off without a hitch! I followed Alton's recipe to a T, except for omitting the candied ginger. Invested in a thermometer, and used a few hints and tips from this thread (special thanks to Goodweed!). The bird cooked in a little over two hours, and was fanflippintastic! Perfectly juicy flavorful from the brine and aromatics. The flavor went literally to the bone. I would have liked it to brown a bit more evenly, but I will work on that one for the next time. I also prepared mashed and sweet potatoes, cornbread dressing, creamed spinach, corn pudding, and gravy.

Now, you all know I was freaking out about receiving my mothers approval of my bird. She decides that she didn't want to cook dinner, so she was coming to get turkey. Yikes! Ummmm, I am guessing that she approved, seeing as for just herself and my brother, the woman jacked half my turkey!!! 

Thanks for all the help and feedback everyone, I feel much more comfortable, even excited, about cooking the entire meal come Thanksgiving! 

The bird out of the oven, and after my mom took her "dinner"....


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## PrincessFiona60 (Oct 30, 2011)

Yea!!!!  So happy it went so well!


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## Dawgluver (Oct 30, 2011)

That bird is gorgeous, Lisa!  I just love happy endings!  Even better since it's your first attempt!  ( My first attempt looked nothing like yours!)


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## pacanis (Oct 30, 2011)

Yum! Thanks for the pics!


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## bakechef (Oct 30, 2011)

Looks awesome!  Brining changed my turkey cookin' life.  People can't get enough of the turkey and often say that it is the best that they have ever had!  

Looks like you are a natural in the kitchen!  Thanks for the update and the pics!


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## purple.alien.giraffe (Oct 30, 2011)

lisaluvstocook said:
			
		

> Ok, so Test Turkey day went off without a hitch! I followed Alton's recipe to a T, except for omitting the candied ginger. Invested in a thermometer, and used a few hints and tips from this thread (special thanks to Goodweed!). The bird cooked in a little over two hours, and was fanflippintastic! Perfectly juicy flavorful from the brine and aromatics. The flavor went literally to the bone. I would have liked it to brown a bit more evenly, but I will work on that one for the next time. I also prepared mashed and sweet potatoes, cornbread dressing, creamed spinach, corn pudding, and gravy.
> 
> Now, you all know I was freaking out about receiving my mothers approval of my bird. She decides that she didn't want to cook dinner, so she was coming to get turkey. Yikes! Ummmm, I am guessing that she approved, seeing as for just herself and my brother, the woman jacked half my turkey!!!
> 
> ...



Awesome! Congrats.


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## CWS4322 (Oct 31, 2011)

bakechef said:


> Looks awesome! Brining changed my turkey cookin' life. People can't get enough of the turkey and often say that it is the best that they have ever had!
> 
> Looks like you are a natural in the kitchen! Thanks for the update and the pics!


 
We cook turkey all the time--we pick it up when it is on special and keep it in the freezer. I'd say that from October to April, we cook a turkey every 3-4 weeks. Sometimes I stuff it, sometimes I don't, Sometimes I stuff just the rear cavity, sometimes front and back, sometimes front, back, and stuffing between the skin and the breast meat--it just depends. Some are better than others. Sometimes I glaze it with maple syrup, sometimes not. We usually get 12-15# turkeys, nothing added. Sometimes they are utility turkeys with parts missing. Doesn't matter, they are still good. We like to have the bones for stock, etc. Cooking it only for Thanksgiving and Christmas is a shame--cook it often--experiment with different techniques--it's really just like roasting a really big "chicken." 

Congrats on your first venture of cooking a turkey. I have friends who have still never cooked a turkey and they are over 50! I can't imagine.


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## FrankZ (Oct 31, 2011)

lisaluvstocook said:


> Ok, so Test Turkey day went off without a hitch!




Ha!  So now we have evidence you stuffed a turkey.  The food police are on their way to confiscate the bird and deliver it to.. umm.. me.  

Looks good.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Oct 31, 2011)

lisaluvstocook said:


> Ok, so Test Turkey day went off without a hitch! I followed Alton's recipe to a T, except for omitting the candied ginger. Invested in a thermometer, and used a few hints and tips from this thread (special thanks to Goodweed!). The bird cooked in a little over two hours, and was fanflippintastic! Perfectly juicy flavorful from the brine and aromatics. The flavor went literally to the bone. I would have liked it to brown a bit more evenly, but I will work on that one for the next time. I also prepared mashed and sweet potatoes, cornbread dressing, creamed spinach, corn pudding, and gravy.
> 
> Now, you all know I was freaking out about receiving my mothers approval of my bird. She decides that she didn't want to cook dinner, so she was coming to get turkey. Yikes! Ummmm, I am guessing that she approved, seeing as for just herself and my brother, the woman jacked half my turkey!!!
> 
> ...


 
Thank you.  And you are very welcome.  Your bird looks great.  Take a bow.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## tlbrooks (Nov 3, 2011)

For over 30 years I've been the turkey cook in my family and I've always stuffed the bird. Never had a problem. I tent with foil and baste often to keep things moist but I have been more and more concerned about possible food illnesses so this year I'm using the Americas Test Kitchen trick of putting the stuffing in cheese cloth and then putting that in the bird. Cook until temp reaches about 130 or so and remove the stuffing in its nice easy to pull out cheese cloth bag and than finish the bird until done. Than I'll mix the stuffing from the bird with the remaining uncooked stuffing, put it in a baking dish and finish cooking. The stuffing from the bird always tastes better than when you just cook it in a baking dish.


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## msmofet (Nov 3, 2011)

bakechef said:


> You won't really taste the ginger, I think it just kind of rounds out the flavor. In all honesty you might not miss it if you skip it.
> 
> If you have a Trader Joe's nearby they have a decent price on vegetable stock, since you will need quite a lot of it!


 
TJ's also has wonderful turkey stock. I roast turkey wings then simmer in TJ's turkey stock and veggies (celery, onion and herbs etc).



Aunt Bea said:


> I was raised on dried out American Mom style turkey and I prefer it.
> 
> I cook the celery and onion in butter until it is soft and then add it to my stuffing so the only cooking required is for the eggs I add to bind the stuffing. I stuff both ends of the bird and make a casserole of dressing with the surplus.
> 
> ...


I also like a dry turkey. Moist reminds me of all the moist, rubber and bloody birds my aunt made for thanksgiving. Thank goodness we are Italian and by the time the bird was served I was full of all the other food that came before! 


I just went to my Shop-Rite website and found 

*Bell's* *Seasoning*
All natural. Salt free. Since 1867. Add a bit of Bell's Seasoning to tuna, ham, chicken and egg salad sandwich fillings.
1.00 oz

It doesn't say *Poultry* Seasoning, is this the one?



ChefJune said:


> I SO understand "I want my stuffing to taste like hers." I want mine to taste like Mama's, and she always used both *rubbed and ground sage* in her dressing. And those aren't so easy to find any more. I guess it's because fresh herbs have become so popular. However, if I use fresh sage, it just doesn't taste right.


June have you tried Shop-Rite? I found both there not long ago.


I used to stuff my turkey every year. I would stuff it, place on a rack, add stock to pan and cover with foil for about 3/4 the cooking time then remove foil to brown bird. But when the gas/propane prices went through the roof AND I got an oven with convection roast option I started roasting my bird unstuffed and a 21- 23 lb bird was cooked in about 3 hours +/-. I put herb butter under and over the skin, place on a rack, NO stock in pan, cover with foil for about an hour and half then uncover. I now make my stuffing AFTER the bird is done cooking and resting. While bird is resting I cook the celery, onion, mushrooms, fresh herbs, poultry seasoning and chopped walnuts in butter until soft then deglaze the turkey pan with the homemade stock. I add the drippings/stock till it is as moist as we like it and stuffing cubes (NO eggs) and serve fresh, moist and hot. I make the gravy from the drippings/stock and the homemade stock. The stuffing tastes like it was cooked in the bird and not dried out like dressing sometimes gets from baking in the oven and on the flip sometimes bird stuffing is to wet.


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## Andy M. (Nov 3, 2011)

I buy "Better Than Bouillon" vegetable base.  Much cheaper than buying veggie stock.


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## blissful (Nov 3, 2011)

For years, I just cooked the turkey, stuffed or not stuffed, actually overcooked it, in a roaster pan, covered in foil and the skin browned anyways.
One year I brined it. Instead of the 1 inch of lovely juice and caramelized pan bottom, I had almost 2 full inches of lovely juice (full pan!).
I can't say which I liked better or that one was more moist, both were excellent.
This thread makes me SO hungry! I even dreamed of making a turkey the other night.


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## msmofet (Nov 3, 2011)

blissful said:


> For years, I just cooked the turkey, stuffed or not stuffed, actually overcooked it, in a roaster pan, covered in foil and the skin browned anyways.
> One year I brined it. Instead of the 1 inch of lovely juice and caramelized pan bottom, I had almost 2 full inches of lovely juice (full pan!).
> I can't say which I liked better or that one was more moist, both were excellent.
> This thread makes me SO hungry! I even dreamed of making a turkey the other night.


 I have never brined a turkey due to lack of space.

BUT I have had the turkey dream!!


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## PattY1 (Nov 3, 2011)

I made stuffing the other day in a baking dish(how do you stuff a boneless, skinless turkey breast). If I can help it, never again. It really lacked flavor. Long live the Stuffed Bird!!!


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## jennyema (Nov 3, 2011)

msmofet said:


> I have never brined a turkey due to lack of space.
> 
> BUT I have had the turkey dream!!


 
If you have a cooler or other large container you can do it outside


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## blissful (Nov 3, 2011)

msmofet said:


> I have never brined a turkey due to lack of space.
> 
> BUT I have had the turkey dream!!




Mine was bizarre--it was beautiful except for the pig head attached to the cooked turkey. I think I was watching too many Halloween movies--not that cable tv gave me much of a choice.



PattY1 said:


> I made stuffing the other day in a baking dish(how do you stuff a boneless, skinless turkey breast). If I can help it, never again. It really lacked flavor. Long live the Stuffed Bird!!!



I agree--I love a nice pan of stuffing balls--but they absolutely need to have cooked turkey juice in them, so they can't be made until the turkey is done and it's not convenient.
PS. your signature is very funny to me, especially about the allergy, it's me all over.


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## blissful (Nov 3, 2011)

jennyema said:


> If you have a cooler or other large container you can do it outside



Excellent suggestion jennyema. Food safe 5 gallon buckets are less than 5 dollars (with lid) at Home Depot and they can be used for hundreds of other purposes. I have 10 or so I use for many things. Storage mostly.
I just filled one up with water an hour ago for the herbs I brought inside for the winter.


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## jennyema (Nov 3, 2011)

blissful said:


> Excellent suggestion jennyema. Food safe 5 gallon buckets are less than 5 dollars (with lid) at Home Depot and they can be used for hundreds of other purposes. I have 10 or so I use for many things. Storage mostly.
> I just filled one up with water an hour ago for the herbs I brought inside for the winter.


 

I brine 2 ginormous turkeys every year and I use coolers lined with XXL ziplock bags (which, i like to say, you can fit a golden retriever in).  I put them out on the porch but you can brine anywhere as long as youhave cold packs and moniter the temp.


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## Alix (Nov 3, 2011)

Note to self: never ask jennyema to dog sit Murray.


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## blissful (Nov 3, 2011)

jennyema said:


> I brine 2 ginormous turkeys every year and I use coolers lined with XXL ziplock bags (which, i like to say, you can fit a golden retriever in).  I put them out on the porch but you can brine anywhere as long as youhave cold packs and moniter the temp.



Excellent info really.
I've used the gallon ziplocks, couldn't even fit a pomeranian in one. Darn it.


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## pacanis (Nov 3, 2011)

Alix said:


> Note to self: never ask jennyema to dog sit Murray.


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## Alix (Nov 3, 2011)

Holy crap - don't let blissful dogsit either!


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## blissful (Nov 3, 2011)

Alix said:


> Holy crap - don't let blissful dogsit either!


I FINALLY figured out how to get out of dog sitting duty! whew!


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Nov 3, 2011)

PattY1 said:


> I made stuffing the other day in a baking dish(how do you stuff a boneless, skinless turkey breast). If I can help it, never again. It really lacked flavor. Long live the Stuffed Bird!!!


 
Simply pound the breast between two layers of plastic wrap until thin. and even in thickness.  Brush with herbed butter, place stuffing mixture in the center of the pounded breast meat, then roll the meat around it to make rouladen. Secure with string, or toothpicks.   Dredge in flour and let dry for a couple minutes.  Dip in egg-wash until coated, then into seasoned bread crumbs.  Bake in a 350' oven for 4o minutes and serve with sides and gravy.

Alternate plan.  Use bone-on chicken breasts.  Poke a hole into the meat, starting at the thick end of the breast.  You will find a place where your finger will slide in between the tenderloin and the main breast muscle.  When the hole is made, fill with stuffing.  Butter the breast meat, season, and roast qt 450, until juices run clear.

You asked.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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