# Non-hydrogenated Lard



## milkdemcows (Oct 26, 2008)

So, when my last tub of generic Crisco was empty, I had decided not to buy it anymore, so as to avoid its trans-fats.  Basically the only thing I would ever use it for was pastry crust.  Instead, I figured, I'd give lard a try, having heard such great things about it for pastry, and it not having artificial trans fats. Then, looking at it in the grocery, I see that what's sold is actually hydrogenated lard, meaning it does contain trans fats.

Its not like a make a lot of pies, so I suppose its not a huge problem to just use whatever...but still.  Anyone know if or where non-hydrogenated lard might be sold?  Or other fats that work too (Coconut oil is the only one that comes to mind).  I've made a few all-butter pie crusts, and frankly don't like the outcome, not as light and flaky, kind of tough, and not that great to work with.


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## Andy M. (Oct 26, 2008)

Pure lard is not hydrogenated.  Some of what is labeled as lard in the stores is actually a combination of lard and hydrogenated fats.


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## suziquzie (Oct 26, 2008)

Don't mess with pie crust.
Lard rules! 
Actually I use half lard half butter.....
I know what you mean that you'd like to cut the transfats out wherever you can but really, it's pie, and like you said, it's not every day. 
I say if you're gonna do it, indulge a little! Eat veggies the next day.....


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## milkdemcows (Oct 26, 2008)

Andy M. said:


> Pure lard is not hydrogenated.  Some of what is labeled as lard in the stores is actually a combination of lard and hydrogenated fats.


 
Yes, I know.  Hence my query, where to get non-hydrogenated i.e. pure lard.

There's also I suppose, for myself an others, a bit of a moral concern here, the lack of whole, nontampered food, or the inverse, our food suppliers supplying us with the creations they do.


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## jasonr (Oct 26, 2008)

Some butchers and delis will sell you home-made lard in tubs, which I assume would be what you're looking for.


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## Andy M. (Oct 26, 2008)

Some ethnic markets may also carry it.  If there is a Hispanic market in your area they may have some.


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## Robt (Oct 26, 2008)

You might find how easy it is to render your own.  you can Google rendering Lard and just the first link I looked at was cool.

You can buy pork fat from most butchers.  You are right on about lard in pie crust.


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## Mr_Dove (Oct 27, 2008)

I have this exact same question.  I had been looking at lard in the grocery store a few weeks ago and was disappointed to find it all hydrogenated.


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## Lizannd (Oct 27, 2008)

*You could also use the Trans fat free Crisco.  They only*

sell it in the small containers where I live but since I don't use much that is not a problem for me.  At room temp it seems a little harder than regular Crisco but works fine.  It may be easier to find this that to find trans fat free lard.


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## milkdemcows (Oct 27, 2008)

About the Trans Fat Free Crisco, there's really a marketing ploy going on here.  If you look at the ingredients, there is some hydrogenated oil (palm I think).  What happens is that for a serving, there winds up being something like 0.49 grams - and the labeling standards allow the companies to round down to zero grams, to advertise it as having 0 grams.


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## Anau (Oct 27, 2008)

milkdemcows said:


> About the Trans Fat Free Crisco, there's really a marketing ploy going on here.  If you look at the ingredients, there is some hydrogenated oil (palm I think).  What happens is that for a serving, there winds up being something like 0.49 grams - and the labeling standards allow the companies to round down to zero grams, to advertise it as having 0 grams.



Huh, I just assumed they completely hydrogenated the fats to make it 100% saturated fat.  That's what lets you keep it unrefrigerated as opposed to home-rendered fat which contains a mix of saturated and unsaturated fats that go rancid.  Trans fats are partially saturated so if Crisco is all saturated fat, then there can't be any trans fats in it. 

But I guess they could still sneak in some trans fats in there, lol.


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## Michael in FtW (Oct 27, 2008)

milkdemcows said:


> About the Trans Fat Free Crisco, there's really a marketing ploy going on here. If you look at the ingredients, there is some hydrogenated oil (palm I think). What happens is that for a serving, there winds up being something like 0.49 grams - and the labeling standards allow the companies to round down to zero grams, to advertise it as having 0 grams.


 
LOL - it's the same marketing "ploy" that is going on with your 0g Trans Fat butter. If a serving size portion is less than 0.5g - like 0.4999, it can be rounded down to 0, 0.999 can be rounded down to 0.5. There is no mandate to round up. It's the way the government set up the rules. 

*THEY* have spend so much time denigrating hydrogenated anything that people don't know the difference between something "partially" hydrogenated and something "fully" hydrogenated. And, people don't know that some things have Trans Fats naturally. The fat, milk, butter, cheese from ruminant animals (cows, sheep, goats, bison, buffalo, venison, etc. - any animal with two stomachs) contains Trans Fat.

Partially hydrogenated oil has trans fats - the structure of unsaturated fats is changed from a CIS configuration to a TRANS configuration - it is still unsaturated but acts like a saturated fat as far as prolonging shelf-life ... the body treats it differently, it raises the bad cholesterol and lowers the good (the same amount).

Fully hydrogenated fats are a little different - it converts the unsaturated fats into saturated fats, not trans fats. These are mixed with NON-hydrogenated fats to make an almost totally trans fat free product - like the new Crisco, Armour lard, etc. You wind up with something with the properties of shortening - without the trans fat.

Professional bakers use different fats/blends of fats for different reasons - flavor and melting points which affect both texture and flavor. I know one company makes a baking shortening that includes totally hydrogenated coconut oil.

I talked with someone at ConAgra this afternoon - it appears that "Armour" lard - although a mix of lard and "hydrogenated" lard - may be almost 0% trans fat since it is made from lard and fully hydrogenated flake lard. She is going to get one of their chemists to call me back so I can confirm this.

So, - unless your going to give up beef/lamb, milk, butter and cheese - don't worry about the small amount of trans fats you might get from Crisco or lard. Like you said - you don't make pies a major part of your diet. Why eat an inferior crust made with butter when it may actually contain more trans fat than using lard?

[EDIT: I left out a word - Fully hydrogenated fats are mixed with NON-hydrogenated fats.]


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## Anau (Oct 28, 2008)

^^See, that's what I thought about the whole "fully hyrdrogenated" thing.  If they really made the effort to fully hydrogenate the fats, it would only contain *trace* amounts of trans fats that would be insignificant for anyone.


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## Michael in FtW (Oct 28, 2008)

I got a call this morning from a chemist at Armour and they confirmed that Armour Lard is made with fully hydrogenated lard - so any remaining trans fats from the hydrogenation process would only be in almost immeasurable trace amounts.


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## milkdemcows (Nov 10, 2008)

Not to raise a dead thread, but wow, thanks for that research Michael


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## margoc (Nov 20, 2008)

There is a differance between trans fat and hydrogenated. Trans fat is a differant molecule configuration, the "trans" form (another example of a configuration is "cis"). These terms refer the the configuration of the atoms around the carbon atom. 

Hydrogenated is the same as saturated fats and refers to the number of double bonds in the fatty acid chain. Oils are are polyunsaturated and have more than one double bond. To make an oil into something like criso it is mearly "saturated", or hyrogenated. I wish I could remember how to draw the molecule to make it clearer. 

Anyhoo, generally speaking, the body can be pretty picky as to how it needs the molecule to be configured in order for it to be processes. Proteins can also be in the wrong configuration, I forget what it's called, but if it's the wrong form the body cannot metabolise it so toxins build up. A trans fat cannot get process in the normal way and the byproducts cause problems. Think of it as being "unatural" in some way. 

My explanation is somewhat simplifed, mostly cause I can't remember it all, but to sum up: 

Hydrogenated = solid = lard&crisco = saturated

oil = liquid = unsaturated

trans = differant configuration = toxic byproducts, build up of substances that cannot be metabolized. It's worse than saturated.


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## Michael in FtW (Nov 21, 2008)

If a fatty acid has no double bonds - it is a saturated fat. If it has 1 double bond it is a mono-unsaturated fat. If it has 2 or more double bonds - it is a poly-unsaturated fat.

You are right that unsaturated fats are normally found in the CIS configuration - they are _partially_ hydrogenated to convert them into a TRANS configuration - by changing their shape from a curled to a more straight shape the can "zipper" together and work like a saturated fat to prevent oxidation to increase shelf life. Although the structure has changed from CIS to TRANS - they are still unsaturated fats.

Sorry, TRANS fats also occur naturally - in the fat and milk of all ruminent animals. It isn't just some "artifically" produced thing. Somewhere between 1-5% of the fat in milk and butter is _naturally_ occuring TRANS fat.

Now, the difference between partially hydrogenated and fully hydrogenated is that when fully hydrogenated - the unsaturated fatty acids are converted into saturated fats - not unsaturated with a shape change from CIS to TRANS.

Animal fats are solid without any hydrogination.

Liquid fats can also contain some hefty amounts of saturated fats.


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## sugarx2 (Dec 1, 2008)

*Try Organic Palm Oil Shortening sold at Whole Foods*



milkdemcows said:


> So, when my last tub of generic Crisco was empty, I had decided not to buy it anymore, so as to avoid its trans-fats. Basically the only thing I would ever use it for was pastry crust. Instead, I figured, I'd give lard a try, having heard such great things about it for pastry, and it not having artificial trans fats. Then, looking at it in the grocery, I see that what's sold is actually hydrogenated lard, meaning it does contain trans fats.
> 
> Its not like a make a lot of pies, so I suppose its not a huge problem to just use whatever...but still. Anyone know if or where non-hydrogenated lard might be sold? Or other fats that work too (Coconut oil is the only one that comes to mind). I've made a few all-butter pie crusts, and frankly don't like the outcome, not as light and flaky, kind of tough, and not that great to work with.


 
Try Organic Palm Oil Shortening sold at Whole Foods. I use it with half butter, half shortning for pie crusts. You get the flavor of butter and the handling and crispiness of the shortning with NO TRANS FAT!

Some saturated fat from the butter, but the flavor is worth it!


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## Michael in FtW (Dec 6, 2008)

sugarx2 said:


> Try Organic Palm Oil Shortening sold at Whole Foods. I use it with half butter, half shortning for pie crusts. You get the flavor of butter and the handling and crispiness of the shortning with NO TRANS FAT!
> 
> Some saturated fat from the butter, but the flavor is worth it!


 
Actually - each Tablespoon of butter contains about 0.4 grams of Trans Fat. For a typical pie crust with 2.5 cups flour, 1/2 cup palm oil shortening, and 1/2 cup butter - the butter adds a little over 3 grams Trans Fat!


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## sugarx2 (Dec 6, 2008)

Michael in FtW said:


> Actually - each Tablespoon of butter contains about 0.4 grams of Trans Fat. For a typical pie crust with 2.5 cups flour, 1/2 cup palm oil shortening, and 1/2 cup butter - the butter adds a little over 3 grams Trans Fat!



All I know is if it has any hydrogenated oil, ( which i read about, and it said it comes from any natural oil that is heated up to about 900 degrees and pumped full of hydrogen.) I break out in blisters in less than 20 minutes. It is more like a toxic reaction actually, than an allergy. I can eat butter with no problem whatsoever. So, perhaps the trans fat thing is confusing because the ingredients lists seem to consider trans  fat and hydrogenated oils one in the same. You are saying they are not. I hope they get more specific on the labels. Zero means nothing to the blisters.  Some companies still put it in the food, and have taken it off the ingredients lists, like REESE'S PEANUT BUTTER CUPS. It is still in there!!!!

So, I will correct my statement. I am unable to eat ANY hydrogenated oil, in any condition it is in. Interesting though "Fractionated oil" and "interesterified oil" doesn't seem to bother me, in that way. They are probably toxic to everyone in the long run, though. They are being substituted for hydrogenated oil. They seem to set one up for diabetes and other problems over time. Not so healthy....

I think they are trying to kill us off one way or the other!


Candy


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## milkdemcows (Dec 6, 2008)

While trans fats do occur naturally in animal fats, I believe I read that the trans fats created in the hydrogenation process are still worse/different.


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## mustardman (Aug 3, 2009)

Tenderflake lard in 454 and 1.36kg size is now non-hydrogenated. Made a blueberry pie with it the other day and it turned out great!  Nice and flaky.  Just use the recipe on the packaging.

This site won't allow me to post their website.  Just google 'tenderflake' it's the first link.


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## Guywhocooks (Aug 3, 2009)

Crisco does make a shortening that is supposedly trans fat free... I've yet to try it though.


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## juliet44 (Sep 22, 2009)

*dumb question*

Can you substitute lard for shortening measure for measure?


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## Andy M. (Sep 22, 2009)

juliet44 said:


> Can you substitute lard for shortening measure for measure?




Yes.  You can sub one-for-one.


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## ChefJune (Sep 22, 2009)

The product you're looking for is known as "leaf lard." It's sold in butcher shops and some specialty stores.  I get mine from a farmer at the Union Square Greenmarket in New York.

The leaf lard I buy has to be rendered, which is easy enough to do, and then it keeps indefinitely in the fridge.  Leaf lard comes from the area around the kidneys and is VERY white. It's supposed to be the best quality.

I use it for biscuits and pie crusts.


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## velochic (Sep 23, 2009)

I get my leaf lard from a nearby Amish grocery.  They render it themselves.  It lasts a long time in the refrigerator, but is not shelf stable like hydrogenated lard.


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