# Condiments--refrigeration or not?



## CWS4322 (Dec 13, 2011)

Okay--my fridge is FULL. Here at the farm, I don't have 2 fridges. The fridge is FULL. A lot of the space is taken up by condiments. Which ones must be kept in the fridge after opening? I keep soy sauce, worch. sauce, ketchup (it hangs around for about 2-3 years), mustards, vinegars, thai sauce, fish sauce, peanut oil, maple syrup, horseradish, and other such things in the fridge. Are there any that I can safely move to the pantry?


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## pacanis (Dec 13, 2011)

I'm sure there are some more that can be kept unrefrigerated than the ones I keep out, but peanut oil and vinegar jump out to me. I treat peanut oil like any cooking oil and have never refrigerated it. Nor have I ever regrigerated my vinegars.
I know there are some people who don't refrigerate ketchup or mustard, but it takes me a looooong time to go through those, so I do. I don't have that much room in my cupboards, so it works out well for me to refrigerate some things. Salad dressings take up the majority of the space I would like to reclaim.


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## CWS4322 (Dec 13, 2011)

What about Baker's chocolate? My mom always kept that in the fridge, is that necessary?


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## CWS4322 (Dec 13, 2011)

Condiments, pickles, pickled fish, and dairy products (cheese, sour cream, yogurt, buttermilk, whole milk, 2% milk) take up a lot of fridge space here. I also keep lard and margarine (for the dogs) in the fridge. I'm just trying to figure out if some of the stuff in the fridge doesn't need to be there...I put the peanut oil in after I used it for frying...the walnut, seasame seed, mustard, and almond oils have always lived in the fridge...at this time of year, I can put the oils in the summer kitchen, but not in the summer! I was told to keep the balsamic vinegar in the fridge--is that necessary? I also am limited on shelf space, but I can figure out something.


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## justplainbill (Dec 13, 2011)

I do not believe the worcestershire sauce bottle label says 'refrigerate after opening'.  Armour lard is supposed to be shelf stable.


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## CWS4322 (Dec 13, 2011)

I also keep my jars of quinoa in the fridge. They probably could go in the freezer? I keep nuts in the freezer so they don't get rancid, especially walnuts.


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## justplainbill (Dec 13, 2011)

CWS4322 said:


> I also keep my jars of quinoa in the fridge. They probably could go in the freezer? I keep nuts in the freezer so they don't get rancid, especially walnuts.


Sounds like you could use a Foodsaver type vacuum packager.

PS - I think stable should be stabile but wordcheck does not


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## PrincessFiona60 (Dec 13, 2011)

Soy Sauce, I have never kept that in the fridge.  I think you could put all of it e\xcept the horeseradish in the summer kitchen if it is cool there.  Milk was on sale the other day, I put a gallon in the freezer.   You could also set some things outside in a box.


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## sparrowgrass (Dec 13, 2011)

I am not much help, C-dub, cuz I keep all that stuff in the fridge, with the exception of vinegar.  I keep condiments in the fridge to keep them corralled--they get lost in the cupboards.

The soy and fish sauce can definitely go in the cupboard, and so can the chocolate.  I keep grains and nuts in the freezer.


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## jennyema (Dec 13, 2011)

Soy sauce, fish sauce, ponzu, vinegar live outside the fridge.  Plus I have so many in such big bottles they'd never fit.  My worcestershire, gazzillion hot sauces live in the fridge, though they probably don't need to.  Hot sauces darken if left out, though.

Olive oil and sesame oil out, as they are used frequently.  100% peanut oil in the fridge as I find it goes rancid faster than other oils.  Canola oil in fridge since I hardly ever use it.

Mustard and ketchup in fridge.  Real maple syrup in fridge - it grows mold.  Prepared horseradish is sold cold so I keep in fridge.  Wasabi, anchovies, sambals, curry pastes, hoisin, porcini mushrooms, kecap manis, HP sauce and other stuff of the like I keep in the fridge after they are opened.


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## jennyema (Dec 13, 2011)

jennyema said:


> Soy sauce, fish sauce, ponzu, vinegar live outside the fridge.  Plus I have so many in such big bottles they'd never fit.  My worcestershire, gazzillion hot sauces live in the fridge, though they probably don't need to.  Hot sauces darken if left out, though.
> 
> Olive oil and sesame oil out, as they are used frequently.  100% peanut oil in the fridge as I find it goes rancid faster than other oils.  Canola oil in fridge since I hardly ever use it.
> 
> Mustard and ketchup in fridge.  Real maple syrup in fridge - it grows mold.  Prepared horseradish is sold cold so I keep in fridge.  Wasabi, anchovies, sambals, curry pastes, hoisin, porcini mushrooms, kecap manis, HP sauce and other stuff of the like I keep in the fridge after they are opened.



I keep quinio (sp?), farro and arborio rice in fridge, but red rose rice outside since we go through a lot of it.  I also keep supermarket bread crumbs and panko in the fridge but keep homemade bread crumbs in the freezer.

I'd pull the soy sauce, fish sauce and vinegar out if i were you.  You get more room and they don't need to be in.


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## GLC (Dec 13, 2011)

A lot of that doesn't need to be in there, but I know what you mean. Worch. sauce is fine outside, as is soy sauce, vinegars, and most mustards. Fish sauce should be refrigerated, I think. Some makers recommend it. It's got enough salt to keep it safe, but the flavor can go off. Maple syrup can get moldy. Often, it is the preservation of flavor, rather than safety, that decides. Hot chili sauces do get dark when left out, but I burn through them pretty fast, so they don't get the chance. 

But, yes. The refrigerator can slowly fill up with partially used condiments, sauces, and such. Some of it's unavoidable. If you don't cook Thai a lot, Thai sauce is going to be around a while. A jar of ginger slices is going to be a permanent guest, unless you go wild on sushi. And then you find whole shelves dedicated to them and their friends. 

I just make myself clean them out periodically. If I haven't used the other half of a bottle of mango sauce in months, (1) I probably won't use it in the next few months, and (2) it's not at its best. Either way, it goes. Sometimes, you have to just admit that you're a victim of makers' packaging decisions, and the cost of the whole jar is just the cost of making the dish. It's bad kitchen juju to let the refrigerator stay packed with stuff like that and to have to dig for things you're no longer even sure are in there. The kitchen is like a workshop. You won't do good work when it's disorderly. 

Now, if we step over to the spice cabinet, we find the real dilemmas.


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## Rocklobster (Dec 13, 2011)

I like the bottles that are almost finished. You don't want to use them, but you don't want to throw them out. So, they sit there......


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## CWS4322 (Dec 13, 2011)

Okay--quinoa is going in the freezer. The worch. and soy are out, the sesame oil is out, the fish oil is in. Baker's chocolate is out. What about tabasco?


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## Andy M. (Dec 13, 2011)

Tabasco-out!  As a general rule, red the label.  If it says to refrigerate after opening, I do so.


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## ChefJune (Dec 13, 2011)

CWS4322 said:


> What about Baker's chocolate? My mom always kept that in the fridge, is that necessary?


 
There is no reason at all to keep baking chocolate in the fridge.

Unless you are using organic ketchup, you don't need to keep that in the fridge. I don't know why or when most folks started doing that. There is SO much sugar in ketchup (well, hfcs, really ) it will never spoil. And I heard that from someone from the Heinz test kitchen.


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## Steve Kroll (Dec 13, 2011)

I keep all condiments in the fridge, whether they say to refrigerate or not. I buy mostly organic, and those types of foods tend to have shorter shelf life. As I buy them, I write the purchase date on the lid with a sharpie pen. Every couple of months I go through and anything with a date older than a year or that looks dodgy gets tossed - or, if it's something I feel bad about tossing, I'll try and make something that week that uses the ingredient (and then maybe toss it afterward).

I keep small quantities of lard and butter in the fridge. The rest goes in the freezer. Oils like Canola, Olive, Flaxseed, Avocado, and nut oils I also keep in the fridge because they can go rancid. I don't refrigerate vinegar, though. Just hold it up to the light before using. If it's clear, use it. If it's oxidized or cloudy, toss it.

If I didn't have my periodic cleanings, I don't think I would have room in my fridge for actual food.


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## CWS4322 (Dec 13, 2011)

ChefJune said:


> There is no reason at all to keep baking chocolate in the fridge.
> 
> Unless you are using organic ketchup, you don't need to keep that in the fridge. I don't know why or when most folks started doing that. There is SO much sugar in ketchup (well, hfcs, really ) it will never spoil. And I heard that from someone from the Heinz test kitchen.


It is organic ketchup!


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## CWS4322 (Dec 13, 2011)

Steve Kroll said:


> I keep all condiments in the fridge, whether they say to refrigerate or not. I buy mostly organic, and those types of foods tend to have shorter shelf life. As I buy them, I write the purchase date on the lid with a sharpie pen. Every couple of months I go through and anything with a date older than a year or that looks dodgy gets tossed - or, if it's something I feel bad about tossing, I'll try and make something that week that uses the ingredient (and then maybe toss it afterward).
> 
> I keep small quantities of lard and butter in the fridge. The rest goes in the freezer. Oils like Canola, Olive, Flaxseed, Avocado, and nut oils I also keep in the fridge because they can go rancid. I don't refrigerate vinegar, though. Just hold it up to the light before using. If it's clear, use it. If it's oxidized or cloudy, toss it.
> 
> If I didn't have my periodic cleanings, I don't think I would have room in my fridge for actual food.


That's my problem--I don't have room for real food! The DH is complaining that all that is in the fridge is condiments...it was okay with 2 fridges, but with only one fridge, there's no room for the real food!

I'm worse than you Steve, I print LABELS and put those on the bottles with the purchase date AND the date opened.


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## Timothy (Dec 13, 2011)

Andy M. said:


> Tabasco-out! As a general rule, read the label. If it says to refrigerate after opening, I do so.


That's what I do also, Andy. As paranoid as food manufacurers are about making anyone sick, I figure they will tell me if it needs refridgeration. I just read the label.

Plus, in Florida, there are so many damn bugs. They get in your house, no matter what you do. If you have anything to eat out, they will come in droves. That's one of the drawbacks to living in the Sunshine State. It's the bug capital of the world.


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## GLC (Dec 13, 2011)

CWS4322 said:


> What about tabasco?



Tabasco is perfectly safe outside. After all, it's just vinegar and peppers. But once opened, it will change color and get darker after a while. No change in flavor, but it's not very appetizing compared to the fresh color. Huy Fong Sriracha Chilli Sauce (the one with the rooster - very useful for putting off those who order just a spring roll and then want to filch off your pad Thai) is the same, except that, even with preservatives, as well as vinegar and salt, it darkens more rapidly, even when it doesn't get much chance to hang around long. I'd refrigerate that one, if you don't use it nearly every day.


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## jennyema (Dec 13, 2011)

GLC said:


> Tabasco is perfectly safe outside. After all, it's just vinegar and peppers. But once opened, it will change color and get darker after a while. No change in flavor, but it's not very appetizing compared to the fresh color. Huy Fong Sriracha Chilli Sauce (the one with the rooster - very useful for putting off those who order just a spring roll and then want to filch off your pad Thai) is the same, except that, even with preservatives, as well as vinegar and salt, it darkens more rapidly, even when it doesn't get much chance to hang around long. I'd refrigerate that one, if you don't use it nearly every day.


 

Very true.  My sriracha at work sits out and it got very dark.  Home bottle stays cold.

I keep my hot sauces in the fridge only because of color and oils and grains only to keep them fresh longer.

There are lots of things that don't_ have_ to be in the fridge that are better if kept there.


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## jennyema (Dec 13, 2011)

CWS4322 said:


> the sesame oil is out, the fish oil is in.


 

For sesame, unless you use it frequently (like we do) it might be better in.  Keeps it fresher.

If it's fish _oil_, then in.  Same thing.  If it's fish _sauce_, then IMO you can def keep it out.  I love the stuff and keep 3 varieties in big bottles out on the counter in my overflowing condiment corner.  I can taste the difference between manufacturers, so I think I could taste it if they went "off" and I havent sensed that.  Same for soy sauce.


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## CWS4322 (Dec 13, 2011)

Okay--opened sesame oil is back in!


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## Timothy (Dec 13, 2011)

jennyema said:


> There are lots of things that don't_ have_ to be in the fridge that are better if kept there.


 
Well said! Exactly so!


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## CWS4322 (Dec 13, 2011)

Timothy said:


> Well said! Exactly so!


Then why are fridges so SMALL????


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## no mayonnaise (Dec 13, 2011)

Get the fish sauce out of there asap!  That stuff is meant to be stored at room temperature.  It'll form crystals and stuff in the 'frige


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## Andy M. (Dec 13, 2011)

Timothy said:


> That's what I do also, Andy. As paranoid as food manufacurers are about making anyone sick, I figure they will tell me if it needs refridgeration. I just read the label...




You would think so.  Check out this old thread on the topic of ketchup's being left in or out...

http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f17/heinz-ketchup-15178.html

PS, The Heinz ketchup bottle in my fridge says, for best taste refrigerate after opening.  It also says for best taste use before 11/28/2011!


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## GLC (Dec 13, 2011)

jennyema said:


> If it's fish _sauce_, then IMO you can def keep it out.  I love the stuff and keep 3 varieties in big bottles out on the counter in my overflowing condiment corner.  I can taste the difference between manufacturers, so I think I could taste it if they went "off" and I havent sensed that.



Fish sauce might fall into the class of stuff that can't really go bad, because it's born bad. 

Today's Asian fish sauce is a relative of the ancient Roman garum, the most popular necessity of Roman cuisine. Gaze upon the making of it and dispair.... Bwa-ha-ha!

Recipe for Garum or liquamen, the Roman fish sauce


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## jennyema (Dec 13, 2011)

Andy M. said:


> You would think so. Check out this old thread on the topic of ketchup's being left in or out...
> 
> http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f17/heinz-ketchup-15178.html
> 
> PS, The Heinz ketchup bottle in my fridge says, for best taste refrigerate after opening. It also says for best taste use before 11/28/2011!


 

I just used mustard that expired in 2008.  Didnt see the date until after ....


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## Dawgluver (Dec 13, 2011)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> You would think so.  Check out this old thread on the topic of ketchup's being left in or out...
> 
> http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f17/heinz-ketchup-15178.html
> 
> PS, The Heinz ketchup bottle in my fridge says, for best taste refrigerate after opening.  It also says for best taste use before 11/28/2011!



I just checked, and my refrigerated Heinz expired 9/28/11!


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## Timothy (Dec 13, 2011)

Dawgluver said:


> I just checked, and my refrigerated Heinz expired 9/28/11!


July 28th, 2012 for mine.


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## pacanis (Dec 13, 2011)

Besides my other reason, I like keeping some condiments in the fridge because I happen to like them cold. I like cold ketchup on a warm hamburger, or cold mustard on a hot dog. And I like cold butter on warm toast, too, even though it's harder to spread. I like eating it before it all melts.


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## pacanis (Dec 13, 2011)

Dawgluver said:


> I just checked, and my refrigerated Heinz expired 9/28/11!


 
I've used cupboard stored soy sauce that was close to 25 years old!
I did not go through as much soy sauce back then...
And that's why I keep it in the fridge now. Not because I have to, I obviously tested that out on myself, but because it makes me feel better to


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## no mayonnaise (Dec 13, 2011)

GLC said:


> Fish sauce might fall into the class of stuff that can't really go bad, because it's born bad.
> 
> Today's Asian fish sauce is a relative of the ancient Roman garum, the most popular necessity of Roman cuisine. Gaze upon the making of it and dispair.... Bwa-ha-ha!
> 
> Recipe for Garum or liquamen, the Roman fish sauce



Fish sauce is one of my favorite condiments.  But the 'frige is not the place for it.


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## CWS4322 (Dec 13, 2011)

I didn't realize trying to reclaim some fridge space would trigger so many responses!


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## PrincessFiona60 (Dec 13, 2011)

I'm just going to start getting an extra packet of ketchup when I hit the fast food places.  Toss it in a drawer.  The bottle I bought expired 4 months ago and it's almost full.  Maybe I should buy smaller containers of things I'm not using regularly.


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## taxlady (Dec 13, 2011)

I can't find a "best before" date on my ketchup.


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## Dawgluver (Dec 13, 2011)

taxlady said:
			
		

> I can't find a "best before" date on my ketchup.



Mine was stamped on the top.  Huh.  I use a lot of ketchup, I thought.  Srirachi date is a bit harder to find, it's found on the bottle, and really hard to see.

(frantically inspecting condiments)

Mustard, toast.  Horseradish, out of date.  Dang.


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## GLC (Dec 13, 2011)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> I'm just going to start getting an extra packet of ketchup when I hit the fast food places.  Toss it in a drawer.  The bottle I bought expired 4 months ago and it's almost full.  Maybe I should buy smaller containers of things I'm not using regularly.



I'm slowly moving toward not buying those things that I can use up in short order. Catsup is one of those. Everything needed is likely in the kitchen of every active cook. Especially for the simply version using tomato paste and powders. And no sugar in the make-as-needed. Mayo kind of goes without saying for any picky cook. Of course, some things are difficult or impossible. I won't be making soy sauce from scratch any time soon, and I could easily make my own liquid smoke but won't bother. But sweet chili Thai sauce is easy enough and can be modified for different emphasis for different dishes. Pad Thai sauce is easy, too, so long as you keep tamarind paste and fish sauce, but those are real basics that you need to make up many things. Pastes like anchovy and wasabi and such last next to forever in the refrigerator and take up almost no space, so I don't mind keeping them on hand any more than I mind keeping a well-stocked supply of durable spices. And having all those ingredients frees you from the choices of manufacturers of ready-mades, so you can craft something special to suit. It's just cooking.


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## Steve Kroll (Dec 13, 2011)

Dawgluver said:


> Horseradish, out of date.  Dang.


Horseradish goes south surprisingly quick. Judging from the noxious fumes, you'd think that bacteria would avoid the stuff (ok, so they don't have microscopic noses). Not so. Even with all the vinegar that's usually added, it only has a shelf life of 4-6 months. Or at least that's the case with the prepared horseradish I've purchased. Same with many of the imported mustards.


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## Timothy (Dec 13, 2011)

Steve Kroll said:


> Horseradish goes south surprisingly quick. Judging from the noxious fumes, you'd think that bacteria would avoid the stuff (ok, so they don't have microscopic noses). Not so. Even with all the vinegar that's usually added, it only has a shelf life of 4-6 months. Or at least that's the case with the prepared horseradish I've purchased. Same with many of the imported mustards.


Just bought my jar of horseradish a few days ago and it has an expiration date of April 25, 2012.

So about 4 months or so. Who knows when they actually made that jar of it. It may have been in the store for a month or even two.


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## Dawgluver (Dec 13, 2011)

Steve Kroll said:


> Horseradish goes south surprisingly quick. Judging from the noxious fumes, you'd think that bacteria would avoid the stuff (ok, so they don't have microscopic noses). Not so. Even with all the vinegar that's usually added, it only has a shelf life of 4-6 months. Or at least that's the case with the prepared horseradish I've purchased. Same with many of the imported mustards.


My dad would make his own horseradish, and I left it in the fridge  for years, using just a bit now and then.   The store bought stuff lasts only  a couple months!  WTH?

Geez, how did we all survive without expiration dates?

Thanks, CWS, for starting an interesting thread!


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## PrincessFiona60 (Dec 13, 2011)

GLC said:


> I'm slowly moving toward not buying those things that I can use up in short order. Catsup is one of those. Everything needed is likely in the kitchen of every active cook. Especially for the simply version using tomato paste and powders. And no sugar in the make-as-needed. Mayo kind of goes without saying for any picky cook. Of course, some things are difficult or impossible. I won't be making soy sauce from scratch any time soon, and I could easily make my own liquid smoke but won't bother. But sweet chili Thai sauce is easy enough and can be modified for different emphasis for different dishes. Pad Thai sauce is easy, too, so long as you keep tamarind paste and fish sauce, but those are real basics that you need to make up many things. Pastes like anchovy and wasabi and such last next to forever in the refrigerator and take up almost no space, so I don't mind keeping them on hand any more than I mind keeping a well-stocked supply of durable spices. And having all those ingredients frees you from the choices of manufacturers of ready-mades, so you can craft something special to suit. It's just cooking.



I wish I had the time for composing all my sauces from scratch.  Just not feasible with my shifts at work, continuing education and hoping for some sleep and relaxation.


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## Steve Kroll (Dec 14, 2011)

Dawgluver said:


> My dad would make his own horseradish, and I left it in the fridge  for years, using just a bit now and then.   The store bought stuff lasts only  a couple months!  WTH?


I wonder what your dad put in his. I've made it, too, and I would go along with the 6 months expiration. More vinegar or salt maybe?


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## jennyema (Dec 14, 2011)

Prepared horseradish goes BITTER before it goes bad,


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## cmontg34 (Dec 14, 2011)

Though not a hundred percent accurate, if a condiment is high in either salt or acid then it can generally be left out of the fridge. When in doubt use your senses, if it smells off, looks off, and tastes off, then its probably off. If you can figure out how to incorporate hearing and touching into that, kudos.


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## Andy M. (Dec 14, 2011)

Curious question.  

How many of you would store an item out of the fridge if the label said to refrigerate it?


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## pacanis (Dec 14, 2011)

On purpose? 
You won't see me raising my hand to that one.


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## GLC (Dec 14, 2011)

Andy M. said:


> Curious question.
> 
> How many of you would store an item out of the fridge if the label said to refrigerate it?



I make a judgment as to whether the advisory is for safety or to preserve color or such. If I don't think it's a safety issue, and I'll use it before it suffers cosmetically or tastewise, it can stay out.  Of course, you always want to think about the actual conditions outside the refrigerator. In a hot environment, a lot more things would do much better kept cold. Manufacturers naturally want their products to be well thought of, and a lot of them are just going to look better when kept in he cold and dark.


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## jennyema (Dec 14, 2011)

GLC said:


> I make a judgment as to whether the advisory is for safety or to preserve color or such. If I don't think it's a safety issue, and I'll use it before it suffers cosmetically or tastewise, it can stay out. Of course, you always want to think about the actual conditions outside the refrigerator. In a hot environment, a lot more things would do much better kept cold. Manufacturers naturally want their products to be well thought of, and a lot of them are just going to look better when kept in he cold and dark.


 

I agree


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## Greg Who Cooks (Dec 14, 2011)

taxlady said:


> I can't find a "best before" date on my ketchup.



Some products may not even have any manufactured or use-by date, or the manufacture date may be coded. I'm uncomfortable not knowing anything about something that's been stored for who knows how long?

My solution: I use a permanent marker and put my own date on every bottled and packaged product I buy, particularly condiments. I use a 4 digit system, date then year. For example it's December 2011 so anything I buy this month is 1211. Next month I'll be using 0112.

This may seem a bit obsessive but it's so simple to do, and then when you find some condiment in your fridge that's been hiding in the back at least you'll know how long it has been there. I've found stuff 4-5 years old (and older) and at some point I think it's best to toss something really old and get a new one. Or maybe if you use it that seldom maybe you might decide to just not buy any more. Each can be their own judge, but with your own number at least you have some information beyond odor and appearance.

One additional benefit, you can adopt a first-in-first out (FIFO) system. For example if you have several cans of tomato sauce in your pantry you can use the oldest one instead of using a newer one and having one in the back that's been there gathering dust for years.


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