# Shopping for wine glasses and cutlery -- Need your advice.



## Chopstix (Jan 20, 2005)

I'm shopping around for wine glasses and cutlery.  I would really appreciate some advice... Thanks!

1.  Should I invest in fine crystal wine glasses or should I just get high-end glassware that look almost exactly the same?  They are both fine-stemmed. The crystal ones seem clearer though and have a very nice clinking sound for when you toast glasses. The crystal ones are anywhere from 6 to 10 times more expensive than the glass version.  Breakage of any of the crystals (which is inevitable), will be SO painful.  Can guests really tell if it's crystal or glass? Which one should I get?

2.  What brands of high-end stainless steel cutlery (spoons/forks) would you recommend? I saw some nice German-made ones and there was one design in particular that I loved.  But it's very pricey.  Assuming daily use and good-care of these spoons and forks, will they retain their sheen for years to come?


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## Haggis (Jan 20, 2005)

Go for glass, I wouldnt give a rats if I was given crystal at someone elses place, I would be more concerned about the actual contents of the glass and how much thought went into the wine choice. And also like you said, you are going to wince everytime people even toast their glasses together with the crystal ones.

One thing is essential, stick to regular shaped wine glasses, not some desinger look rubbish. Something that will allow the wine to breath, but also trap some of the aroma.

I hate the old saucer champagne glasses that are currently heading into style again now, yes it looks good...but where are my bubbles? Flat champagne in 20 seconds.


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## Claire (Jan 20, 2005)

Just goes to show that we're all different.   My problem with glass isn't that it is not crystal, per se, but that the glasses have a 'lip' on them that just doesn't feel the same as the fine edge of crystal.  Here in the US, almost anything you buy, even the best US-made stuff, has a thickness to the lip of the glass that makes me feel like I'm drinking out of plastic.  Fine for everyday, but I like having something better for special occaisions.  And, yes, I like the 'ting' of a toast given with good, European, crystal stemware.  But you don't have to buy Reidel (which I find pretentious) to get there.  Look around a little more.  I assume  you're not buying your every day stuff, but looking for something to enjoy with special meals.


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## Ishbel (Jan 20, 2005)

I'm with you, Claire.  I cannot ABIDE drinking from glasses with thick lipped edges.

Most of my crystal is Waterford with some Stuart and Edinburgh crystal for different sized glasses.

Even for everyday, I use 'good' ordinary glasses (from Poland and Slovenia) - the manufacturer' say they are crystal, and they do have a  hollow-sounding  'ting' when struck....   but they are quite flimsy, really.


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## Claire (Jan 20, 2005)

Oh, dear.  This is what I hesitated to say with fear of offending someone.  We were a military family, and I spent about a third of my first 18 years in Europe.  The plain old "glasses" my parents bought in Germany and France were of what most in Europe would consider everyday quality.  They wouldn't even call it crystal.  On our trip to Slovenia 10 years ago, we learned that it was still so.  You don't need to go top of the line to get good quality, but even now I'll be damned if I can find a consistent source.  Anything I've bought or looked at made in the US has that lip (I think it's called a "bead") that I don't like.  It makes it sturdier, and it's OK for most of what I need.  I did find that wine catalog sold Speigelau (or something similar) at a fraction of the cost of Reidel.  

If I were young and just starting out, and was really intersted, I'd buy plain old glasses all around (wine and otherwise), then buy four generic wine glasses (anyone here chime in on what shape) in good crystal with a fine lip.  I don't think shape matters as much as the feel of the edge of the glass on your mouth, and yes, that fine "ting" when you propose a toast, because a celebration of life is what drinking is supposd to be about.  

BY the way, to get that "ting" just right, hold the glass by the stem or foot (my freinds here mostly hold it by the bowl!!)


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## Ishbel (Jan 20, 2005)

My Waterford, Edinburgh and Stuart crystal all have the most satisfying 'ting'...  it's the cheaper Slovenian and Polish stuff that has a fairly tinny 'ting'...   8)  But they do at least have no 'lip' and are quite clear and shiny - and certainly good enough for everyday use.


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## GB (Jan 20, 2005)

Will your guests be able to tell the difference? Yes, most will. Should you get glass or crystal? Well that is up to your personal tastes. If money were no object then I would say get the crystal. Glass stemware can be very nice though and no one who comes to your house will be offended that you used it. If they are then they should not be welcome in your home IMO.


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## buckytom (Jan 20, 2005)

remember not to store any alcoholic or acidic beverages in leaded crystal containers and decanters. the lead will leech in to the beverage, thus giving the drinker a nice shot of lead poisoning. it is ok for a short time, like the few hours of a dinner or party, but do not use it to store them any longer. it makes me cringe every time i see people pour a drink from a leaded crystal decanter from a liquor cabinet. i wonder how much lead they are ingesting...


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## kitchenelf (Jan 20, 2005)

Chopstix - I've got 4 sets of 4 different stemware by Waterford, I think it's the Marquis pattern - VERY simple and inexpesive at $12.50 a stem -  it's still hard not to flinch when you see one go flying across the courtyard via a backhand gesture    (not the top 2 in this pic but the 4 pics under the top 2 -  my wine glasses.  

This is so difficult to say - - - - the "stemware" we pull out most of the time when our drunk friends are over  :roll:  is just some kind of glass that I got at Wal-Mart for .79 each - people always comment on how they like them - the stem is a little swirled, but it's a sturdier glass but still attractive.  While you are looking for a GREAT sale on stemware you can always get something like this - I got 12 - for under $12.00  

What's also fun to do is go to different specialty shops and look to see what is on sale and start a "collection" of stemware.  It makes for a very attractive table setting I think.

My favorite glasses - of which there are only 2 left (very sad indeed) are Champagne flutes - I had to make payments on them - I like to treat myself and then be selfish with those glasses.  8)


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## GB (Jan 20, 2005)

Kitchenelf my parents use similar stemware. They have some very fancy and expensive stuff, both crystal and glass, but the ones they like to use the best were bought at the Christmas Tree store (do they have this store outside of MA?) and they paid about 25 cents a glass. They are very pretty glasses and everyone who drinks out of them always comments on them. We still use the good stuff for formal dinners, but for everyday it is the inexpensive ones. The great thing is if they break then it is OK. No one feels horrible about ruining them because they are so darn inexpensive.


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## Chopstix (Jan 20, 2005)

Thank you to all for the many insights on glass versus crystal!  

Since we don't normally drink wine except on special occasions, I think I'll go with crystal.  KitchenElf, thanks for the Waterford link! I too would prefer a very simple stem design like Marquis!  

I think part of enjoying good wine is the sensual pleasure of drinking it out of a very fine glass.  I have a friend who serves her wine in the most excellent crystal glasses I've ever seen and I always look forward to going to her place for dinner because I know she lays out her best stuff for friends and that's one way of making us feel special.


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## Paint (Jan 20, 2005)

Only one piece of advice on cutlery - try it out & pretend to eat with it in the store.  The reason I say this is that friends of ours bought expensive, very contemporary styled silverware that they insist on using whenever they have a dinner party......the problem is you can't actually eat with it!  The design is so thin where you put finger-pressure to cut food that the knives just turn in your hand and food goes everywhere without being cut.  This bad design fault really makes eating a misery - your hands actually hurt with trying to cope with cutting your food and the constant twisting of the knives!  

Paint.


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## kitchenelf (Jan 20, 2005)

Good tip Paint!  I've seen designs like that and think of people with arthritis or tendinitis or carpal tunnel - it would be difficult.  

I've always wanted the huge set of mixed hotel design flatware - I'd like to actually see it because I want it to have some weight to it and I'm not sure how heavy 18/10 is.  What I use now is various pieces of silver from about 4 sets that I've picked up over the years.  I'd like to have something with some style that I don't have to polish all the time.


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## Michael in FtW (Jan 20, 2005)

I'm like everyone else I guess - for special occasions I prefer crystal .... but that's a personal choice and I don't find that anyone will really notice the difference between expensive and cheap crystal.

As for "stainless steel cutlery (spoons/forks)" - that's "flatware". But, like for cutlery (good kitchen knives), holding it in your hand helps. Find a pattern you like, something that feels good in your hand .... and go from there.


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## Lifter (Jan 21, 2005)

Guess I'm with MiFW!

As for glassware, we have "both"...the cut crystal stemmed and unstemmed glassware, and the "beaded" varietals (some pretty expensive and even "old" today!)

The "beaded" ones have, historically, held up somewhat better, (in that the "set" 26 years later, remains complete, in spite of "damage" from misguided dishwasher applications!)

When the "crystal" ones got broken, along the way, it was accepted as a "price of doing business"...use it and lose it, or just let it gather dust and take no "joy" of owning it and using, caressing, or "enjoying" such a "gift"...

I vote for the "good stuff"!  

Buy the crystal cut glass, use it at every opportunity, and enjoy to the fullest!

If you "walk in front of the bus" one day, are physically/mentally incapacitated by Life's quirks or happenings, it might be "nice" to think back on a hppy occaision where the glasses "rang" together in a toast, or where rubbing your fingers around the "ring" gave such resonance of sound...

If its a "glass of wine" on the porch, patio or street with neighbours, a "good" set of plastic stemware is the answer, as opposed anything else...Wal-Mart will do quite nicely!

Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, New Years, Anniversaries, Birthdays, Christenings, etc etc, at home, why not pull out the "good" (read "expensive") stuff?  Even if something gets broken, it makes the "Day" that much more "memorable"!

We always made a point f using the "good" crystal, the "best" tablecloth, the "fine" china, and the "expensive" silver at the least excuse, let alone Christmas, Thanksgiving etc...(even if it meant "buffing it up" a bit!)...when else can you enjoy what you have acquired?

Enjoy each step of Life's journey, as best you can...it would be a pity, looking back, to observe "short cuts" taken, that avoided enjoyment...the "crystal", after all, belongs to "you", not your kids or grandchildren..."expend" or "use" it to your best enjoyment...


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## kitchenelf (Jan 21, 2005)

Lifter - you have a wonderful way of reminding us to enjoy life to its fullest!!!  I broke my father's coffee mug and everyone around me held their breath - I was ok with it because at least I was using it and not just looking at it gathering dust.  I am a firm believer in using what you have.  My husband is still amazed at what I set out every day to use to just mix stuff in or use as the "garbage" bowl when cooking - I, like you, would rather lose it to use than lose it to a dusting catastrophe!

Thank you for being you - I really mean that!


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## Lifter (Jan 21, 2005)

Well, ummm.."thanks"  I guess...

How could anyone be "different"?  Would be pretty foolish to "have a million" and "live like a beggar", wouldn't it?

Even most of King "Tut's" toys were broken when they dug them out of the Pyramids...

For those that do not use their "gifts", check out Kipling's "My Name is Ozymandius" poetry...

Lifter


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## kitchenelf (Jan 21, 2005)

LOL - are you not good at accepting compliments or do you truly not believe what I said?


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## Lifter (Jan 21, 2005)

Try "both of the above"...

I'd just regret "dying off" without using some of the "good stuff" "at all" or "enough"...its not going to be "buried with you"...

Sorry if this might sound "twisted" by my Dad's "friend" or "companion", (following my Mom's death some years ago) just passed away suddenly Wednesday night/Thursday morning, and Dad was the one to make the "discovery", though calling in the police to attain entry, he was brushed aside, that the "family" could be treated best...

We are "all going to go" eventually, but we'd be IDIOTS not to "enjoy" what we have, in the interim...

The calls and emails through this night have not been that "happy" and my thanks to this Forum that "my thoughts" might be received this well...its going some distance in keeping me sort of "sane", where I live so far from family...

Lifter


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## Paint (Jan 21, 2005)

Lifter - whenever I use my Grandad's old beer bottle opener to open a bottle, it reminds me of him and I always say 'Cheers, Grandad' before I take the first drink LOL!   

Paint.


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## Claire (Feb 1, 2005)

You all seem to enjoy a good related story.  One day hubby and I were at the home of our favorite wine snob.  We loved his wife, and enjoyed him (especially his wine/food pairings ... he may have been a snob, but he did noticeably know his stuff in a way I can never imagine knowing, and haven't seen before or since), in spite of his pretensions.  

We sat at his lovely bar, sipping great vintage brut champagne.  Had a lovely hour of that with appetizers, moved to the dining room where we were, as usual, treated to a superb meal with wine that made the great food taste better, and great food that elevated the wine to ambrosia.  I commented that the stemware was Waterford, how lovely, although I'd secretly preferred the champagne glasses, which were very, very simple and light, with that very fine lip I love.    

He was gracious at the compliment, but replied that we'd had the champagne out of "the expensive stuff" .... Baccarat, at $100+ a stem.  

I nearly spit my wine out with the mere though that a typically careless move of mine could have ..... well ....


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## choclatechef (Feb 2, 2005)

Lifter said:
			
		

> Guess I'm with MiFW!
> 
> Buy the crystal cut glass, use it at every opportunity, and enjoy to the fullest!
> 
> ...



This makes me laugh.....not that I don't agree with what Lifter said, but at my family.

Years ago, I collected a wonderful set of pink Dogwood pattern depression glass dinnerware.  To go with it, I bought a set of the same era pink Bartlett-Collins stemware and glassware.  Of course, I collected them piece by piece.

When I moved into my first spacious home my dad helped me move.  I had given him hell for throwing my glassware boxes in the truck, and cried when I found 2 broken goblets.  He got mad, so I told him how much each was worth.  He almost cried himself then!

Within a month, I invited my parents and grandparents for a housewarming dinner after church.  I pulled out all the stops, cooked for 2 days, and pulled out my best tablecloth, the heirloom silverware mom gave me, and of course my pink glass dinnerware and glassware.

The food [according to my taste testing cousin] was excellent, and the table decoration was perfection itself.  I was soooooo proud......

When my grand parents and my parents arrived, the look on their faces was indescribible [sp].  No pleasure was noticable on anybody's face.  Their expressions showed.......sheer, absolute horror!  

Worse yet, they were so nervous they started shaking.  My grandmother came out of it first, "Baby, it is beautiful.  Why don't you get out the paper plates so we can eat."  We argued.

I protested about how hard I worked and please sit and eat.  Like Great Danes in a china shop, they ate their dinner, but they did not enjoy it.  Everybody left asap.  I was devastated [sp].  

Unbeknownest to me, Dad had told them about my "expensive glassware", and they totally intimated.

Sad story huh?


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## mudbug (Feb 2, 2005)

That IS sad, choc, especially after all your hard work!

Isn't it ironic, too, that Depression glass was the cheap stuff included in boxes of detergent/soap, etc. during the Depression?  Now we look for it at flea markets, E-Bay, etc.


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## Claire (Feb 2, 2005)

I, too, have had friends intimidated by a set table.  Luckily we can help them over the hump.  Do you think it was just the expense, or were some of them afraid to make a faux pas with the setting?


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## choclatechef (Feb 2, 2005)

Claire, it was just us family.  They were intimidated by the expense!  

It hurt my soul because it was Valentine's day, and I thought the pink glass was perfect!

I never could settle them down to a nicely decorated table with the good stuff.


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## luvs (Feb 3, 2005)

i would say go for the crystal. you can find them at Kaufmann's for a reasonable price. i have a love for crystal wineglasses and even drink my milk out of them, lol.
the only thing is, is that they're so fragile. but on the upside, it's easy to find the same exact pattern to replace the broken one. the glass wineglasses the instructor provided us in my wine-tasting classes were heavy, smudged easily, didn't make that 'clink' sound that crystal ones do, and vere noteworthily less clear than my ones at home.
it's really gonna depend on your budget and how much it really matters to you.


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## Claire (Feb 21, 2005)

Can't resist one more addition.  When I was growing up, most Sunday dinners (especially in winter) were eaten off my mom's very best crystal and china, we stayed dressed in our "church clothes", the flatwear was laid out correctly.  We learned how to do it all.  Then, in more recent years, the number of grand kids outstripped Mom's ability to set the table -- heck, they couldn't fit around the table any more.  So one day I was yard saling with Mom, and noticed her picking up every cheap piece of stem ware she could find.  What was she doing?  "Well, I can't put the good crystal out any more to try to train them, so I'm buying stemmed glasses that I don't care about breaking to teach the kids how to eat and drink right!"  At the time my younger set of neices and nephews were just growing out of sippy cups, and Mom was getting ready to teach them how to eat and drink!  What a woman!


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## keen kook (Feb 24, 2005)

Chopstix, may I add a tip that could save breakage of whatever type of wine glass you finally decide on?

I do hope I'm not stating the obvious here, but it is amazing how many people snap wine glasses at the stem when drying them!

When drying your wine glass, hold it by the bowl, NOT the stem.

Hope this saves any expensive breakages - particularly if you decide on crystal!


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## Claire (Feb 25, 2005)

On breakage:  Also do not use extreme temps of water.  I tend to want to wash in super-hot water, and very thin glasses can shatter if they're cool and you dunk them in very hot water, or there are extremes between your washing water and rinsing water temps.  I did this often when I was young.  Take a glass with ice cubes in it, dump them, drop them in hot water.  I know it's a 'duh', but by the end of a wine-soaked evening a lot of 'duh' occurs (I can't tell you how many sterling forks disappeared until I realized I was scraping off the scraps and somehow losing the forks in the trash).  Now, even if I'm washing everything else after a long dinner party, the crystal stays put until the (more alert) next day.  Oh, yes, the night's trash doesn't go out until I've counted the silver, too!!!


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