# Global Obesity



## karadekoolaid (Sep 4, 2006)

I've just answered a white vs brown rice post in which an author made what seemed to be an off-the-cuff comment... which was very relevant. 
Whilst not wanting to get "serious" in this wonderful forum, I think our next challenge as foodies/ chefs/wannabe chefs/ gourmets/ parents is here: 
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/hot/o/obesity.html

I'd like to hear some thoughts on this. As a former smoker, I quit in 1997, just in time to avoid the healthy H-bombs blasted at "innocent" smokers. 
I wonder if as much interest would be raised by the Al-Quaeda Obesity Liquuidation Lobby?  Is there one? The problem is FAR more serious than smoking, guys...


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## amber (Sep 4, 2006)

I'm confused with regards to your question and the link.  The link refers to obesity, and your question is about smokers.  

I'll just address both. First of all when smokers quit, they sometimes eat more.

Second, in school lunch programs, at least here in the states, they are trying to revamp and make things healthier...ie, no soda, no junk food in the vending machines, healthier options if kids eat at school, though I prefer to send my lunch rather than having my child buy school lunch. 

Hope that answers your question.


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## Ellen (Sep 4, 2006)

I think the definition of malnutrition needs to be far more encompassing in popular understanding Clive.  Those who are clinically under or over weight are mal-nourished.  I find the sight of a plate overloaded with food, impossible to eat generally, as distressing as the sight of stick thin children shown on fund raising ads., staring vacantly at the TV camera.  Is this problem of distribution a political one?  I believe it quite often is.  Zimbabwe used to be a power house of productivity, but since the farmers have been driven from the land they have been food importers.  And the same thing goes in many countries.  It is either palaces or poverty.   Terrible waste or desperate want.

But it is a very complex problem isn't it.  Developed countries also cop it both ways.  Social engineering has a lot to answer for.  A good healthy weight is considered by many to be overweight, and we have young, and sometimes old people starving themselves to death in increasing numbers.  Even the male of the species seems vulnerable now, and young men have been joining the ranks of the "model thin".  I think these very thin models look just awful. And yet the 'look' is pushed unceasingly.  Perhaps people are getting more obsessive,  look how food fads sweep whole countries, silly diets and so on. 

So where to start with the malnourished.  The eco/political thing doesn't seem to work, neither does common sense with the 85 lb wisp.  I could go on about the parents of some infants who feed them fat free milk, and if they don't die, turn them into made up tiny beauty queens. Insanity.  

I guess the question about malnourishment (in western countries) is why are we so obsessed.  With food, with weight, with fads, with magic bullets.  Why do we eat such corrupt food, instead of whole foods with real tastes.  It appears no matter which country we look at, there is dietary disaster ready to engulf us.  I could go on about food marketing etc. a huge subject.  But, I shall spare you.  (Vast supermarkets, and the opposite, food deserts for an example).

PS.  I remain a smoker Clive, it gives me something to argue about.

I suppose


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## Gayle (Sep 5, 2006)

Not long after I started my kids in public school, I noticed not only that they were getting fat, but they were showing signs of behavioral problems and were, frequently, sick. I pulled them out and started homeschooling them. We grow almost all of our own food, organically. They are now healthy, slim, and fairly well-behaved (for teenagers)

And I still smoke, too.


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## buckytom (Sep 5, 2006)

wow, 2 great posts, and then you both blew it, ellen and gayle.

cancer or emphysema and the complications thereof are just around your well educated and otherwise physically fit corners. hopefully, you'll be one of the less than 1% of people who are genetically unaffected by carcinogens. (all smokers have decreased lung capacity, no matter who you are.)

i find it interesting (incredible actually) that you don't trust public education or food programs, but don't have a problem with the tobacco industry. it'd be like eating food you know was injected with carcinogens and addictive compounds. but because of the addiction, you turn a blind eye.

if you grow and smoke your own, then i apologize for misunderstanding.

sorry to hijack the thread clive. now back to fat people, of which i am becoming one because of all of the things i've learned here.


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## lulu (Sep 5, 2006)

Mylegisbig, I am sorry, I know two people who have died from smoking marijuana.  One was 17 and had an allergy.  He died within minutes.  I understand this is more common than generally accepted.  The other was just about the most beautiful looking man I ever knew.  He developed a canibis psychosis and commited suicide in his early twenties.  I have meny, many friends who smoke it though.  Many this leads me to have faith in the statistic that 1 in 4 canibis users will develop some form of mental illness, most commonly depression.  If you ask me this statistic is conservative.  Of all the drugs I find this the most dangerous because of its perceived innocuosity.  If people want to use it thats fine by me, so long as they know and understand and accept the risks.

Sorry Clive, back to obesity.

Yes.  Its a killer.  And our attitudes are so mixed up.  Both Husband and I have had eating disorders as teenagers.  He was anorexic (thankfully a brief period, resolved by love of food and growing up) I was bulemic and a "compulsive exerciser".  The really sad thing is I seriously damaged my metabolism during this period.  When I developed a serios illness, about four years ago, my metabolism could no longer cop, and I more than doubled my body weight in a matter of months.  So, I have seen it from both sides.  

Packeted, highly processed food, is, in my opinion, addictive.   I seriously limit what is in our home.  Generally if we are going to have cake/biscuits/burgers whatever: I make it.  At least that way I no what is in it and can make allowances in the rest of my diet.  Despite food labelling, I never really feel I can equate it to the rest of the food in my life, so its easier for me to home make as well.  But is a whole lifestyle issue.  Its not just what we put in, it is our out put, so to speak.  Our dependence on cars, and our "time is money" lifestyle, imposed by economic pressure, means we are often almost forced to make quick options, (car instead of walking for groceries, and school runs).  I just can't see that changing anytime soon.
Personally, I look at the designer clothes I used to be given for smart events and smile but  I don't even want to be that thin again.  My husband found me more attractive at a "normal" healthy weight.  I just want to, as mylegisbig says, move around with out breathing heavy.  I want to feel fit and strong and that I can rely on my body to get me through the demands of the day.  If I have children I want them to eat wholesomely, healthily and with pleasure and prudence in equal measure. I only hope that the abuse I put my body through in my teens and early twenties to conform to what I thought society wanted of me has not permanantly damaged my body's mechanisms and that this is possible.

Fat IS gross, but we know that.  What are we going to do about it is the question?


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 5, 2006)

lulu said:
			
		

> One was 17 and had an allergy.  He died within minutes.



Care to cite a peer reviewed medical study on death due to cannibus allergies? I'm interested. If it happened to your friend surely its happened to others.  Perhaps a newspaper clipping detailing the death?


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 5, 2006)

"Many this leads me to have faith in the statistic that 1 in 4 canibis users will develop some form of mental illness, most commonly depression."

These days they say everyone is depressed.

Apparently, 15% of people are depressed in the united states.

source: [SIZE=-1]www.fda.gov[/SIZE]


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 5, 2006)

lulu said:
			
		

> Of all the drugs I find this the most dangerous because of its perceived innocuosity.



You think Marijuana is the most dangerous drug?

Do a little reading.



The Journal of the American Medical Association, Jan. 19, 2005, Vol. 293, No. 3, p. 298, reported on the leading causes of death in the United States:

Tobacco (435,000 deaths)
*Alcohol consumption (85,000 deaths)
*


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## Chef_Jen (Sep 5, 2006)

You know my problem with obesity is that there isnt enough information. Sure every doc will tell you

Eat better
Excersize more..

But there are different types of obsesity and that is where the medical profession and the nutritionist fail us. There is the people who eat and dont excersize and gain weight.... there are the ones that diet excersize do everything and gain weight This is due to an underlying medical issue like thyroids hormones and metabolism. I dont think we consider this option. I think society is too quick to say "your fat loose weight" and we dont realize wait a sec maybe there is something wrong.

This is where i feel the medical society needs to pipe in. In england we are giving kids LIPOSUCTION- Yes thats right we are putting childern under the knife rather then looking at what is actually the problem. We all know kids are active etc there is no reason to be putting them under the knife. 

As chefs/foodies/parents/family members we have a responsibility especially to children to insure they are eating correctly. Why are chefs putting fatty foods on their childrens menu????

personally its like selling alchol to a minor you wouldnt do it, so why give them bad food. On my kids menu i have things like curry but i dont offer chips, I have pizza on a pita bread with salad. You would be surprised how many parent thank me for that!


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## kyles (Sep 5, 2006)

I am obese.

18 months ago I was morbidly obese with a BMI of 46, now it's 33.

How many days per year did I eat fast food? Less than 10.

I got fat eating home cooking, medicating my emotional issues with food, and not moving my body.

I was, bizarrely, a healthy obese person. Perhaps having age on my side helped but my blood sugar, blood pressure and cholesterol was all within a healthy range. I hardly ever went to the doctor, I work full time, I'm not a drain on the countries medical resources.

I decided to something about my weight whilst I was still healthy, still able to exercise, and didn't have any mitigating factors which might prevent a healthy, moderate rate of weight loss.

As a formerly morbidly obese person, I think the problem is very complex. Once you are morbidly obese, your lifestyle has developed in such a way that you can't see any way out. Much like an alcoholic or a smoker, you can't see yourself living any other way. it is possible to break out of that, but it's hard.

And with obesity, and we've seen ample evidence in this thread, there is such a stigma, and a culture of blame. What is the point making the obese person feel even crappier about themselves than they do already?

I'd liek to see a posititive approach to weight loss for the morbidly obese, one that supports the individual to re educate themselves, to receive lifestyle advice, and to learn to love themselves as they are now, right at this moment.

I have said many times that losing a lot of weight is much easier from a position of self love and acceptance than self hatred and loathing.


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 5, 2006)

Chef_Jen said:
			
		

> You know my problem with obesity is that there isnt enough information. Sure every doc will tell you
> 
> This is due to an underlying medical issue like thyroids hormones and metabolism.



there are drugs like t-3 and t-4 for people with thyroid problems

as for metabolism, its like anything else..some people work out only get average gains..some people get huge and strong

the people with the metabolism problem just have to be that much stronger..and eat healthy..you dont even have to exercise a bunch

most fat people you say they are on a diet, or eating healthy, etc, just say that to save face, in secret, they wolf down anything in sight.... they aren't honest..which gives people with true metabolism disadvantages bad names

If i appear a little heated on this, its because im from houston one of the fattest cities in the WORLD..and i get sick and tired of seeing these 35-40 year old 400lb  people rolling around the grocer on those little machines..parking in handycap spts....for god;s sake do thing about your self How do these people clean their bodies?

very unfortunate


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 5, 2006)

kyles said:
			
		

> I am obese.
> 
> 18 months ago I was morbidly obese with a BMI of 46, now it's 33.
> 
> ...


you dont look obese in that pic.... what is the UK's definition of obese?

i mean@ 6' 220 i may be obese over there


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 5, 2006)

kyles said:
			
		

> I got fat eating home cooking,



this is a REALLY SIMPLY piece of advice i will offer obese people.

I gained 50lbs over two years moving in with my fiancee. all home cooking, but heavy alcohol consumption. i just LOVE FOOD.

Well these days, i eat food JUST AS GOOD, but in a different way.

instead of

butter

bread

potatoes

sugar

soft drinks

pizza 

cream

milk

i eat things like this - JUST AS MUCH FLAvpr

chicken breast, bone in, skin on them. Just peel it off

95% lean hamburger meat

vinegar

hot sauce

mushrooms

onions

garlic

carrots

bas

o poi


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 5, 2006)

lost 30lns in 2 months for. eat small meals when i want to


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## kyles (Sep 5, 2006)

In that pic I'm about 210 lbs. I was 262 lbs and 5'4'', obese in any country!!!! I've always had a fairly slim face, you should have seen my hips! "caution wide load"!!!

And your preaching to choir with your food suggestions!!! LOL!!!

I used to cook with a lot of butter and cream. I still use a bit of butter, but no cream. And I used to bake - and then eat the produce. 

Unfortunately, because I have polycistic ovary syndrome, weight loss is terribly slow. I have lost 64 lbs and have about 40 or so to go.


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## lulu (Sep 5, 2006)

Mylegsbig said:
			
		

> ... what is the UK's definition of obese?
> 
> i mean@ 6' 220 i may be obese over there



I believe the definition of obese is the same, but not sure.  We use BMI charts.  BUT we do have different, narrow bands for things like thyroid function.  In US someone being treated for thyroid problems might come with in our "normal" band because it is a much smaller that in US, and I am told, much of the rest of the world.  Thus, my mother, who returned to her doctor repeatedly over the last ten years with a goitre was told her thyroid was functioning, but now they are removing the whole gland this month: because it doesn't work  both my sister (very slim) and I  both fall with in the US treatable range but outside UK range where tests read normal.  My sister gets her thryroxin when she is in US and remains very very slim.  We also do not get medifcal treatment for other weight effecting issues, like PCOS, a women's syndrom, that I think is treated with the diabetic drug metformin in US. These are the two I know about.  

Lifestyle and diet do of course still play the biggest part in these things, I do not mean to undermine them: still the bottom line.


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## licia (Sep 5, 2006)

Kyles, you have done so well and I bet you feel so much better.


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## urmaniac13 (Sep 5, 2006)

licia said:
			
		

> Kyles, you have done so well and I bet you feel so much better.


 
I second that, Licia, Kyles, I wish you could be a mentor for our poor Lucilla, Cristiano's 10 year old daughter!! (150cm/5' - 77kg/170lb)

She is one of the more complex victim of obesity, she doesn't gorge on junk foods, and while her diet seems to be quite unbalanced (she lives with her mother) she doesn't eat THAT much to be so overweight. And while she is never a sportive type, she is passively active and plays with her friends outside often and doesn't spend all her time sitting in front of the telly. She has been to numerous, various testings at hospitals in search of possible cause however nothing definitive has come out and we are still in the dark as to why she is in this condition and we are becoming desperate, as she is not getting any thinner, and at this age she could become more and more self conscious and develop some serious psychological problems.

And Lucilla is not alone. Childhood obesity has become a major problem also in Italy (it became the leading "fat" country around Europe, according to the statistics). To combat this problem, for a start, along with the common sense "eat healthy and in moderation" and "exercise more" of course, I think proper education on nutritions needs to be incorporated at schools. This is something very undervalued and overlooked at this stage, it is something absolutely essential to one's wellbeing and everyone needs to have a proper knowledge as to how to manage their own health. And with this program being present, schools will have no excuse to serve unhealthy lunches to the students.


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## Maidrite (Sep 5, 2006)

For one, being obese is Gross. You can't move around without breathing heavy, they generally smell bad, they eat 40lbs of junk food, etc. Also, it is causing the health industry god knows how many millions to get all new equipment for fat people. More on health industry, as far as i know, obese people pay normal premiums dont they? Why should I, who has been to the hospital twice, and the doctor 3 times, im 15 years, pay the same health insurance as some 400 lb walking heart attack? 


*Let me share something with you,  "MyLegsBig" I am working on my weight and yes I have ate to much at times "BUFFETS ARE A KILLER" stay away from them . When I was 14 years old there was a kid in school who stab me twice in class when the teacher had to run to the office for a minute. When they asked him why he did it he said, "Because I wanted to see if he would (POP)" Everyone in class started to laugh, That moment crushed my spirit for a while. I pay much more in insurance rates because of my size and I haven't been to the Hospital in 20 years except to visit others.  And I will be the first one to agree we need to work on weight problems.  *
*Be a friend I can tell you no one wants to be under or overweight. *
*Just say no to Rudeness theres no place or reason for it, Thats a much bigger problem in our world today !  *


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## cloudybutnice (Sep 5, 2006)

My husband gave up smoking about 12 years ago. Since then he has gradually put on weight. He is now having problems with his hip joints, but won't see a doctor. He needs to lose weight. I'm really worried. If it gets to the stage where he can't walk, I'm not big enough to lift him.


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## Maidrite (Sep 5, 2006)

*Its a must to get him on the move, He needs to get into the water or on a exercise bike. He needs to lift his legs and arms even while sitting will help. He will be stiff at first for a while, Asprin if he can take it should be taken within 30 minutes after a workout to help pain. Encourage him as much as possible but do not nag him. Water it sounds like is his best way to go right now. It is a perfect exercise for you both ! Help him help himself ! You will be glad you did. You may have to push him for a while but you will be glad you did it in a loving way ! *


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 5, 2006)

Kyles, congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!! Youve done an excellent job!
Sorry about the loopy post. My Post-op surgery pain pills are pretty strong.


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 5, 2006)

Maid, it's nothing personal. It's a multitude of people and situations and complaining that brings about my heated attitude.


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## Robo410 (Sep 5, 2006)

it's food it's genetics it's a whole lot of things, and a constant battle, but I can win it.


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## Chef_Jen (Sep 5, 2006)

See i read these thread and im almost embarassed by the amount of people who are ignorant. 

Kyles i applaud you for your weight loss I too suffer from bad PCOS and im a cancer survivor. My weight came on with those 2 things combined

i dont smell bad
im probably fitter aka can run walk climb swim etc then most "skinny people" Remember being skinny doesnt mean your in shape!
I dont go out and "pig out" infact i can eat salads and gain 10 lbs its just my genetic make up"



> For one, being obese is Gross. You can't move around without breathing heavy, they generally smell bad, they eat 40lbs of junk food, etc. Also, it is causing the health industry god knows how many millions to get all new equipment for fat people. More on health industry, as far as i know, obese people pay normal premiums dont they? Why should I, who has been to the hospital twice, and the doctor 3 times, im 15 years, pay the same health insurance as some 400 lb walking heart attack?


 
This just baffles me.. So im overweight.. but what about the skinny person whos addictited to drugs should she pay more as well? 

Not all overweight ppl eat "40lbs of junkfood".

I think your comments are very out of line and lord hopes that you never gain a pound!!

My problem with BMI is it isnt very accurate. they say that a woman who is 5'5 who weights over 150 is overweight.. they dont take into consideration Frame if they play rugby or anything like that.. I think BMI is just not advanced enough to use to judge things.

In the uk this week they released an article about IVF saying woman who are overweight cannot have this treatment.. meanwhile they dont take into consideration people like Kyles and i who have PCOS and all though our BMI might not be the best we are still very healthy people

society as a whole needs a lesson IMHO


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## lulu (Sep 5, 2006)

I have PCOS too,(as well as the thyroid issue...fate had it in for me!) I was diagnosed while I had a more "urgent" problem, by a private doctor.  Unfortunately it took for me to be unhealthy to have the weight gain.  BUT while I was skinny I did not lead a healthy lifestyle, I eat more healthily now.  To maintain the weight I used to be I ate only branflakes or apples through the week and chose either to have a meal out or a drink with friends...on Saturdays.  I would cook but not eat.  How can that be as healthy as eating balanced meals of fruit and veg?  In addition I ran three times a week, I had a personal trainer twice a week, I riode race horses every morning (harder work than hacking a leisure horse) and played polo once or twice a week.  That was a lot of exercise on not much food.....probably why I got so ill, which in turn led to my weight gain.  

Its very easy to say fat = bad (and again, I am not saying it is good, or even ok, we should be tackling it) but we have to see WHY and how to deal with it.  Its like saying thin=healthy, and I for one KNOW that isn't true.


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## licia (Sep 5, 2006)

Some things we can all do - we can change our habits -perhaps not all at the same time, but we can begin to eat the right things, drink the right amounts of water, do more exercise than we have been doing. Every day with a few changes makes the next days a bit better, maybe a little bit sore to start, but exercising those out feel great too. When we see a bit of progress it is so encouraging. When I was diagnosed with arthritis, I had gone thru a period not knowing if I would ever be able to do my own housework again, if I would ever feel like playing with my grandchildren like I wanted, or anything else. I was so tired and also my muscles were weak. I am only about 30 lbs overweight, but believe me that makes a difference. I started using the treadmill a bit at the time, then I decided to do the water class. I've only lost about 15 lbs, but my bp is down, cholesterol is down, sugar is down, my strength is so much better. I KNOW I didn't feel like exercising when I started, but I decided it would be my job to restore as much of my health as I could.  It is important to remember that everything we do to improve our health is measureable in some way or another. We may not live longer, but we may have a healthier life. That makes a big difference to our family and friends, both as a role model and just feeling better while we are around them.  We all need encouragement also.


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## karadekoolaid (Sep 5, 2006)

Whooo! Ive just arrived back after a hard day slaving over chutney pots...
and find that I didn't explain myself properly. Sorry guys and girls! 

My concern was over obesity. The link was from Yahoo-Uk, and basically stated that obesity is the next Worldwide Pandemic. I'm NOT talking eating disorders, illnesses, post-surgical after-effects, genetic pass-ons, I'm talking obesity in perfectly normal people; ie, those who _should not_ be obese but are so because they do no exercise, eat all the wrong things and pig out when ever possible. Repeat, NOT anything medically induced!
( Now I sound like that Monty Python sketch: " That is my question, Chris, which I am asking, and the question I'm asking is the same one...") 

Regarding obesity, I wonder what would happen if the Extreme Measures applied successfully to smokers were applied to obesity. What would it be like if you couldn't go into a restaurant unless you weighed less than 180 lbs?
What would it be like if, when ever you bought a bag of crisps or pretzels or nachos, there was a Statutory Government Health Warning on the back? What would happen if there was a huge sign on the Bacon Counter saying " Sales Prohibited to Under-18s"?? What would you do if, for example, you walked into McDonalds and there was a huge photo of the after-effects of a liposuction planted over the "Combos" sign?
Am I making myself clearer than yesterday, I wonder... 

Just that I felt extremely concerned about the over-eating thing. I'm fortunate that I have a wonderful metabolisim which burns everything in sight and only allows my beergut to grow minutely every year...


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## Maidrite (Sep 5, 2006)

*I don't  really get upset with anyone, (UNLESS THEY HURT MY BARBARA  OR OUR DAUGHTERS ) then its "GRIZZLY BEAR TIME  ". Other than that I am a Big Teddy Bear  . I Love All People and thats In My Nature too !  Big Buns, Big Hips, BIG HEART ! Have a "MAIDRITE DAY" *


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## The Z (Sep 5, 2006)

Maidrite... I like you, man.  And I'm not sure why you do it, but could you scale back your font and color a little?  I mean, Admin gets on people for writing in ALL CAPS and considers it, through widely-accepted 'netiquette' to be shouting.  If all caps is shouting, then what is super-sized, bright red font... 'screaming'?!?


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## TATTRAT (Sep 5, 2006)

If this nation wanted to curb the obiesity issues, they should/would make the healthier options more cost effective. Australia has what is affectionatly known as, the "Twinkie" tax. Junk food costs more, making the healthier option even more apealing. 

As far as the posts refering to marijuana and marijuana related deaths, there to date have not been any recorded deaths soley based on marijuana useage. Sure people have died with pot in there system, but it has not been the cause of death. 

http://www.cannabis.com/untoldstory/hemp_9.shtml

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm

When people have an allergic reaction to marijuana, they get high. It is a reaction between THC(the active ingredient) and our bodys(brains) natural chemicals.



Anywho....if there was to be a national plan to do away with so much of the processed and adulterated, and largly unhealty items in the stores, we would all benifit. Think off all the farmers that need the work. But until the prices drop, a single parent, on a shoestring budget, will opt for the bigger bargin in most cases. Unfortunatly, the bargins are not the healthiest of options sometimes.

Also, it must be said that no one is forced to buy unhealthy things. The U.S. is a instant gratification type society for the most part. When we want it, we want it now, and that normally means fast food or microwave meals, not a great home cooked dinner.


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## Andy M. (Sep 5, 2006)

TAT:

I have to disagree.  People overeat because the stuff tastes good.  I overeat.  I eat good foods, not junk.  I eat stuff that tastes great, not stuff that's cheap.

Cigarette taxes haven't slowed down smokers and twinkie tax won't slow down overeaters.

In some cases of extreme poverty, the unfortunate fact that a gallon of Coke costs a lot less than a gallon of milk makes incorrect shopping decisions easy.  I believe this is the minority of cases.


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## kyles (Sep 6, 2006)

I'd like to further elucidate what TATTRAT mentioned about the Australian tax approach. Australia introduced a GST (goods and services tax - similar to Britains VAT - value added tax) in about the year 2000. 

What the government did was make fresh food and vegetables and meat (and there were some pretty funny discussions about whether a cooked fresh chicken was to be exempt or not) and impose the GST on all other food stuffs. It wasn't a "twinkie tax" per se, all processed foods, healthy or not (and lets not debate about whether any processed foods are healthy) are subject to the tax.

Personally I think it's a great idea. More than anything else, it cuts down paper work for primary producers who sell directly to the people via farmers markets etc.

I honestly think the approach the obesity "problem" is a complete mess. Public policy does not know where to turn. How do we as nations encourage people to take responsibility for their health?

The approaches of doctors usually leave a lot to be desired, I wonder just how much time they get in medical school devoted to teaching people how to manage their weight? 

I don't have the answers, but what I would like to see particularly in the uK is NHS sponsored weight loss clinics staffed by a multidisciplinary team of exercise physiologists, dieticians and doctors, where epople are treated with dignity, and referred for appropriate intervention (such as weight loss surgery) when all conventional attempts to lose weight have failed.


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## buckytom (Sep 6, 2006)

yup, let's make the government tax us to death to make us behave.

or not.

how long before junk food is illegal?

hey man, i got twinkies. ten bucks.

you got 20? ok, ring dings...


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## kyles (Sep 6, 2006)

That wasn't the intention of the tax though. If you read my post, what it was intended to do was preserve the price of fresh food, and keep it the same as it was before the tax. The GST was applied to everything else, food, clothes, everything, and it was intended to bring taxes in line, before GST Australia had hundreds of hidden taxes, for example the 10% tax on icecream replaced a 27% tax on the icecream containers!!!! Although the icecream itself was tax free previously. the tax did have some huge flaws and still does, for example sanitary napkins and tampex are considered a "luxury item" and subject to GST, whilst shaving cream is not and is tax exempt - guess the majority gender of the Australian parliament.............lol

It's very easy to mock BuckyTom, but lets see your public policy recommendations.

As I stated in my post, I think the the intervention governments can have, particular in countries like Australia and the UK which have free government provided health care, can be a direct one. But tax is surely one of the tools the government can utilise to raise revenue to provide these services. And if it encourages someone to perhaps buy an orange or a banana instead of a chocolate bar for their three o'clock sugar fix - all the better. 

It's a competely different proposition in the US where you health care isn't government provided.

I think society should take responsibility for helping one another reach a healthy weight. It shouldn't be up to the individual to go it alone, at the mercy of charlatans and witch doctors out to make a quick buck with ridiculous weight loss programmes with outlandish claims. Call me a left wing sympathist, but I believe we should all be working together for the greater good. Surely a healthy population of people who can look in the mirror each day and feel proud of themselves is what we should be aiming for as a society.

It just baffles me how much money our government is throwing at hospitals and keeping the largest publicly provided healthcare system in the world ticking over fixing the problems caused by lifestyle issues, but is so reluctant to providing preventative healthcare measures to those who are already obese, but not yet ill. 

I had no help from my doctors at all. Nothing. If I didn't want weight loss surgery, I wasn't entitled to anything, no dietician support, nothing. I find that sad. And fortunately I am the type of person who was willing to go out and research and find my own way, however a lot of people haven't got the confidence and the nouse to go out there and do that, otherwise we wouldn't have an obesity epidemic.


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## licia (Sep 6, 2006)

BT, I agree completely.  Whatever is done with our health, we ultimately must take personal responsibility. It isn't up to the government to keep the "goodies" away from us. Most of us know what food is good for us...some may not want to take the time to prepare it, but that too is a matter or personal responsibility.  I really don't see how we got to be a people of having to police everything.  There are many choices of all different foods we can put in our bodies and if we use only a small amount of the "goodies" to enhance a meal rather than depend on it for our nutrition, we will choose the good for us 95% of the time. You can see people are motivated by different things to keep their weight in check - some their jobs, hobbies, etc. Some see the results that only a small loss can bring and are encouraged by that. I have no sympathy for someone who chooses to dig their grave with a fork or spoon. Help is available!


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## Chef_Jen (Sep 6, 2006)

Well we need police on things because we are humans..

Look alchol has policing.. why because minors shouldnt drink it their livers and kidneys arent fully developed etc.

SO.... why shouldnt we police certain foods. As eating sugars etc can have the SAME effect on you!. Sure it doesntmake you drunk but it still is bad for liver kidneys etc. 

BUT thats beside the point the like kyles said the purpose of the tax was to *MAKE FRESH FOOD AFFORDABLE* because at the moment in england i can go to a grocery store and get:

Chicken in atomato sauce with peppers 
potatoes
vegetables
Premade pre done full of cr@p but 2.50

Now to buy all that seperatly 4.00-5.00

SO the average family with medium income and kids etc which choice do you tihnk they will make??? 

Food is expensive and ya you can argue all you want about nutrition etc. but what it comes down to is cost.


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## Chef_Jen (Sep 6, 2006)

Oh and i know your argument is "you cant put a price on healthy eating and cooking" WELLLLLLL when i was a kid you certainly could

My family worked hard really hard but i got peanut butter and jam everyday for my lunchs ya surei got some veggies etc but my mom couldnt afford to make sure we had "fresh stuff" everyday nor could she cook a meal for us everynight I couldnt begin to tell you how many cans of Spaghetti or kraft dinner i ate. 

I thought Jello Pudding was fine dine!!! 

So before we start point fingers and say "people are fat cause they choose to be" we need to look at things differntly

For example... Look how many questions we get on DC simple to some but I can tell you now My mom is 44 and just learned this year how to cook asparagus from fresh and we see this on the boards allll the time "Hi I just bought a sweet potato for fun what is it and what does it do"

The education on food sucks...not just in england but all over the world. we need to be taught how to prepare and cook certain things. 

Knowledge is power

Oh and who do i think should do this... The govt...the grocery stores... the farmers... chefs...

we need to educate I got a leaflet in the grocery store about lettuces how cool!! i wish i saw this more. I mean i see ppl walk by certain fruits and cheap veg but they dont know what they are.. or how to use them ((Greens come to mind so cheap yet ppl are scared)).


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## buckytom (Sep 6, 2006)

there ya go kyles. (btw, i wasn't mocking you, but the system. i'd like to see the day an american pays a tax for simply owning a tv).
licia pretty much summed up the american experience. 
also, i really don't think i can post my opinions about english law and social attitude here.

but then again, that's what seperated us in the beginning, in 1773. i guess i'll have to be humble and thank the good citizens of boston for that one. (it probably won't happen again. go yankees!  )

besides, you yourself admit even with overtaxation, social medicine sucks. 
i had a friend in ireland who was pregnant at the same time my wife was, and we were amazed at how much less pre-natal care was given over there in the first 2 trimesters, the most important ones. we've compared everything from vitamins to check ups to post op, and it's kinda scary. 
i won't get into the health care debate of rich/insured v.s. poor/uninsured in america, but if you have a backbone to work here, you'll be alright.
(sorry if i've offended anyone, but get real, and get to work if you want a life.)


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## buckytom (Sep 6, 2006)

and chef jen, i think you should be taxed for serving crappy coffee! (j/k  )

all kidding aside, it could happen when you begin to ask your government to protect you from yourself. they don't know when to stop.

your comparing alcohol to food arguement is weak. i've never seen anyone crash because they had too many greasy hot dogs.


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## Chef_Jen (Sep 6, 2006)

buckytom said:
			
		

> your comparing alcohol to food arguement is weak. i've never seen anyone crash because they had too many greasy hot dogs.


 
Really??? Go see any cardiologist will tell you heart attacks clogged artries.. Sugar shocks etc all make you "crash"

and like i said i know food doesnt get you drunk.. but too much wrong food has the same effect as too much alchol (liver issues, kidney issues, blood pressure) The list goes on


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## buckytom (Sep 6, 2006)

umm, i meant crash a car.

not a sugar rush/crash. never heard of anyone who was arrested for being cranky and tired. (otherwise, dw would be in sing sing... lol)

and too much of the *right* food will do the same.


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## lulu (Sep 6, 2006)

Well.  I have been thinking about this, and I agree with Kyles.  The fact that we have an NHS in UK is relevant, in the extreme, to how we percieve the governments role in fighting obesity.  
I am the last person to become nanny-stateish, but I can see why if someone is paying for my healthcare and they are really ghealthy and I abuse my body its going to annoy them.  Where as, I might not like risks they take.  It kind of makes sense that we have a compulsory insurance scheme, me paying a fat premium, another guy paying a skiing premiun etc.  I suppose though, you run back to where you started with people who cannot afford it, and means tested health...its the same arguements again.  While we are tackling the problem it seems fundamentally wrong we treat with surgery and humiliation what we should be tackling with support, lifestyle help and encouragment, AND before it gets so that people have such huge amounts to lose.  The idea of losing, say 30 lbs, seems so much less daunting than losing a hundred pounds, if we had processes that encouraged people to seek help at that early stages, with out fear of humilation and degradation would it help?  It would help me.

And agree, with Eurpeoan farming facing such economic pressure a tax on processed foods would seem like a good way to go economically, rather than a bizarre set of economic regimes based on production of certain products....I know our system for farming grants etc has recently changed, but I don't understand in which way.

when I was a student, when many of my contemporaries were feeding themselves for the first time, food choices were definitely made economically and one cn only hope this did not set patterns or life-eating plans.  I know someone who used to buy cheap white bread, cheap margerine to fill up on and a supermarket brand multipack bag of crisps for each day of the week.....his weekly groceries cost under 10 quid, he was always very proud of that.  I think if that has set his eating pattern for life then wow, is he missing out on some wonderful food, and wow, is he going to be unhealthy.  Its hard for me as a food lover to understand that for some people food is sustanance and they will buy the cheapest fuel possible for their bodies.  But I am sure it happens.

My views on this are all over the place, and certainly over influenced by personal situation....but then, thats the problem....more and more people find themselves in this uncomfortable situation.  

Kyles: you are very, very inspirational.


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## buckytom (Sep 6, 2006)

inspirationally agreed. i wish i could summon kyles' discipline of late. 
you've taken personal responsibility for your health, which was my point in the first place. we need less government (for a myriad of reasons), more personal responsibility.
i guess it's a european thing, probably due to proximity and gnp, where you need to trust your government to lead you the right way. just a thought.
i don't think that'll ever work in the u.s..


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## Chef_Jen (Sep 6, 2006)

well remember bucky im canadian.. and our govt in canada influence us the Canadian food guide.. is preached daily in dr offices... 

its not about trusting but its nice to see the govt make positive steps to change our lifes


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## bethzaring (Sep 6, 2006)

kyles said:
			
		

> IThe approaches of doctors usually leave a lot to be desired, I wonder just how much time they get in medical school devoted to teaching people how to manage their weight?


 
I would love to hear that I am wrong on this point, because I do not have recent information on this, but there are four MD's in my extended family and they report they had NO required courses in nutrition in medical school.  My BIL, who is a neurologist, has an intense interest in nutrition as well as all non-western approaches to medicine, tried very hard to take one of two elective classes offered in nutrition when he was in medical school in the late 1980's and was not able to schedule them.


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## bethzaring (Sep 6, 2006)

licia said:
			
		

> Some things we can all do - we can change our habits -perhaps not all at the same time, but we can begin to eat the right things, drink the right amounts of water, do more exercise than we have been doing. Every day with a few changes makes the next days a bit better, maybe a little bit sore to start, but exercising those out feel great too. When we see a bit of progress it is so encouraging. When I was diagnosed with arthritis, I had gone thru a period not knowing if I would ever be able to do my own housework again, if I would ever feel like playing with my grandchildren like I wanted, or anything else. I was so tired and also my muscles were weak. I am only about 30 lbs overweight, but believe me that makes a difference. I started using the treadmill a bit at the time, then I decided to do the water class. I've only lost about 15 lbs, but my bp is down, cholesterol is down, sugar is down, my strength is so much better. I KNOW I didn't feel like exercising when I started, but I decided it would be my job to restore as much of my health as I could. It is important to remember that everything we do to improve our health is measureable in some way or another. We may not live longer, but we may have a healthier life. That makes a big difference to our family and friends, both as a role model and just feeling better while we are around them. We all need encouragement also.


 
Excellent advice, thanks for posting!


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## GB (Sep 6, 2006)

Just a quick reminder that we should not be discussing politics on the board. Thanks.


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## kyles (Sep 6, 2006)

Oops I hold my hands up on that one.

I think though, that this debate has been a productive one. 

As keen cooks we are in a unique position to let our loved ones, friends, and community members aware of just how easy it is to produce a healthy, cost-effective meal.

Perhaps that should be an October challenge, cook a meal for one family or person who could eat better, then give them the recipe!


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## Chef_Jen (Sep 6, 2006)

Oops sorry GB!

Ya ithink thats a great challenge!


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## GB (Sep 6, 2006)

kyles said:
			
		

> I think though, that this debate has been a productive one.


I agree Kyles. So far it has been a good discussion for the most part. I just do not want to see that change (not that I expect it would have)


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## lulu (Sep 6, 2006)

Yep...I trangressed too...apologies to all.

Thanks for pulling us back in line, GB.

Um, I'd like your healthy recipes.  It would be a good thread...like the what did you eat today thread, but kind of more focused and proactive....good healthy and low fat meals we enjoyed and would recommend.


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## MarionW (Sep 6, 2006)

Guys & gals, I won't even begin to pretend I know the answer to "Global Obesity".  I would like to reinterate some points already made and possibly add another or two:

Providing for the family, (eating) can be, and is, an economic issue for most.  But, that does not neccessarily mean that, low to moderate income, families must eat un-healthy.  There are healthy, modest priced foods.  These foods may not be as inticing as the "Chef-boy-R-dee's" though.  But I can attest to being raised healthy in a low-income home.  My mom spooned beans, taters and soups on my plate more times than I care to remember.  God love her!

Secondly, I'm 47 yrs old.  I remember vividly studying the REQUIRED courses in health & nutrition in the public school system.  No excuses there.

Thirdly, there are persons that, due to their personal health issues, whatever they be, have problems with "overweight".  Some of you have told us about your own issues.  This type thing is REAL.  Make no mistake.  Some sweet people have REAL problems with weight.

Lastly:

I've done this.  Take a stroll back in time.  Do a search on vintage photographs.  Whatever subject suits your fancy, be it farming, swimming, whatever.  You don't have to go back very many years.  Actually, just one generation will show the difference.  The genral populace was thinner, only one generation ago.

Our obesity is not a product of evolution.  Our obesity is not due to lack of education.  Our obesity is due to general change in lifestyle. One major change is less manual labor.  Our housewifes have dishwashers, clothes driers, and many other things to make life better.  (This is just an example, use your imagination to come up with others.  I love housewives!  God bless them!) We have conditioned climate wherever we go. (Automobiles, homes, work-place, etc... all conditioned.  We don't even sweat anymore)  

We are compulsive about satisfying ourselves, beyond healthy.  Food is one area that we do this.  "ALL-U-Can-Eat" buffet?  Good gosh!

Human's have always had a natural desire to make life better. From the stone-age till now, there has been a tremendous amount of progress made to better the human life.  The sad thing is, the scales started tipping the other way in the last century.  In the natural human quest to make life better, we have reached a point that we are now un-healthy people.

Marion


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## joy2006V2 (Sep 6, 2006)

Oooh...we had a burning converstaion in our house last night about whether the govt were really doing anything worthwhile tkaing away sweets and salt and pepper from schools. I said yes, but then I got accused of being naive and that skinny people have just as many problems and that just because someone is fat doens't mean it's because they eat too much sugar. Discuss...


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## GB (Sep 6, 2006)

joy2006V2 said:
			
		

> Oooh...we had a burning converstaion in our house last night about whether the govt were really doing anything worthwhile tkaing away sweets and salt and pepper from schools. I said yes, but then I got accused of being naive and that skinny people have just as many problems and that just because someone is fat doens't mean it's because they eat too much sugar. Discuss...


As mentioned above, please no political discussions. Thank you.


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## Mylegsbig (Sep 6, 2006)

Chef_Jen said:
			
		

> See i read these thread and im almost embarassed by the amount of people who are ignorant.
> 
> Kyles i applaud you for your weight loss I too suffer from bad PCOS and im a cancer survivor. My weight came on with those 2 things combined
> 
> ...


5'5" 150?  I'm 6' 220

im no string bean myself.

im taling about these people who are completely round, like 400-500 lbs and all they do all day is sit around and eat and they can barely move and clean their bodies.

lol @ you being 150 lbs and being offended by my post.


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## Alix (Sep 6, 2006)

This thread is closed. No more "passionate" comments from anyone.


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