# Wine and beer?



## sam111

For wine if I had cranberries , grapes , strawberrry ,...etc juices would all I have to do is add a packet of active yeast to make wine or alcoholed fruit drinks?

And If so how long after adding the yeast to the fruit juice will it take. And should it be refrigerated ?

For beer it seems like the same process a round about with barely,hops, and some water

The only harder alcohols one would need more things for is the harder alcohol
like vodka, brandy (distilled wine),gin,whisky ,.... etc since these are more concentrated since they are just really the distillation of the more simple ones usually


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## GotGarlic

It's a little more involved than that. Check this out: How to Make Wine at Home


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## Steve Kroll

I don't make beer, but I make about 150 gallons of wine every year, and have been doing so for quite awhile now. I'm also currently the president of the largest and oldest home winemaking club in Minnesota.

The process is a little more complicated than what you describe. Normally you make a "must" using the desired fruits. Often this involves crushing or chopping the fruit and macerating the mixture to extract the juice. You then have to balance acids and sugar so that everything is within a certain range. Then you add the yeast. After 1 to 4 weeks of fermentation (the actual amount of time depends on the temperature, sugar level, and yeast strain), you remove the fruit pulp and let the wine sit for several months to clear.

If you are interested, there are quite a few books and web sites that will help you along. Let me know if you would like me to post a few. If you're just looking for some recipes now, Jack Keller runs a home winemaking web site.

winemaking: winemaking recipes

Jack's a little politically opinionated at times, but he gives pretty good advice overall.

I also posted a thread here sometime ago showing how I make grape wine.

Here's the link:
http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f146/winemaking-fun-82765.html


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## Steve Kroll

GotGarlic said:


> It's a little more involved than that. Check this out: How to Make Wine at Home


No offense, but that's a pretty poor excuse for a recipe.


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## CharlieD

Steve, how much space, how big of a room/storage does one need to start making wine? Maybe not as much as you do, maybe for starter just 10 gallons or so?


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## Steve Kroll

Charlie, I know people who live in apartments and just have a little space set aside in a closet, basement, or spare bedroom for the containers. Most of the real work, like bottling and so on, can be done in the kitchen. 

I have a 12 x 6 foot area set up in the basement. That's where I store and age everything. So not a real big space.


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## CharlieD

I have been wanting to start making my own wine for a while, but problem is I really do not have a lot of space. My kitchen is long but extremely nerrow. Just enough space to walk by the cabinets. Even refrigerator doesn't open completely becasue of the wall.


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## GotGarlic

Steve Kroll said:


> No offense, but that's a pretty poor excuse for a recipe.



None taken  I have no experience with wine-making, so I googled it. Should have waited for you to come along


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## Steve Kroll

No worries. When I saw the first ingredient on the list was "lots and lots of wine grapes", I got scared.


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## Addie

Steve Kroll said:


> No worries. When I saw the first ingredient on the list was "lots and lots of wine grapes", I got scared.


 
Lots and lots of wine grapes? Is that like Concord grapes, or whatever kind they use? I don't know a thing about wine or the making of it, but I can't blame you for being scared. If that is a measurment then lots and lots of flour for bread making, more than you would use for dusting the bottom on a cake pan should do. After all they both require yeast.


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## Caslon

Addie said:


> Lots and lots of wine grapes? Is that like Concord grapes, or whatever kind they use?



Not to tangent out but...mmmm yum, Concord grapes.  Black grapes are my new fave snack fruit. They aren't as tart as red and green grapes are.  They're very seasonal it seems. US supermarkets import them from Chile when out of season here in the US.  I bought two bags two weeks apart and now they're out until June, I'm told (short growing season). My fave snack is concord grapes with cheese slices and some  pretzel sticks and a few thin salami slices and maybe a green onion on a small plate.


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## Hoot

Hard to beat scuppernongs for homemade wine, jelly, jam, or just plain eating. JMHO. The local wild grapes....we call them bullous (sp?), are mighty good too.


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## Hoot

Google informs me that the wild grapes I was referring to are called muscadines.


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## Steve Kroll

I've had muscadine wine. It's good. If you live in an area where they grow (mostly the southeastern US) you are lucky, Hoot.


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## buckytom

Steve Kroll said:


> I don't make beer, but I make about 150 gallons of wine every year,


 
my god. what do you do with nearly 93 gallons of wine every year?

that's almost 470 bottles of wine!


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## Kylie1969

Steve drinks a lot


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## Steve Kroll

buckytom said:


> my god. what do you do with nearly 93 gallons of wine every year?
> 
> that's almost 470 bottles of wine!


My wife and I drink somewhere around 40-50 gallons (200 bottles) between the two of us a year. Sounds like a lot, but only averages out to around one glass a night during the week, and a couple on weekends.

About 40-50 gallons of what I make goes to my wife's brother and sister. They pay for all the raw ingredients and bottles, I make the wine, and we have a big bottling party every year around Easter.

I also give quite a bit away as gifts, enter it in competitions, or sometimes use it as barter for goods/services. Over the years we've put in an outdoor patio, had landscaping work done, and, this year, are putting in a sprinkler system. All paid in part through homemade wine.

And whatever's left gets socked away for the long term. It's my liquid retirement fund. If stored properly, wine will last 10 to 20 years or longer.


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## buckytom

i've read there's a whole science behind which wines age well, and which are to be consumed within a year or two.

my neighbor makes about 50 gallons of red wine every year, and then lets the leftover mashed skins ferment some more and then sistills them.

his wine is ok, but his grappa is fire water.


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## Steve Kroll

Definitely some science there. Oxygen and high or fluctuating temps are wine's worst enemies. Luckily, red wines contain tannin, anthocyanins, and sulfur dioxide, all of which are natural antioxidants. If stored at 50-60 degrees, a full bodied red wine can last quite a long time.

White wines also contain sulphites (contrary to popular belief, they contain about 30% more than red wine, which blows a hole in that theory that sulphites are the cause of "red wine headache"). But they have little tannin or anthocyanins. Most white wines are drinkable for 2 or 3 years past the vintage date. Oak-aged whites, like Chardonnay and some Sauvignon Blancs, get a boost of tannin from the barrels, which helps them age a little longer - anywhere from 5 to 7 years. If you store white wines at 50 degrees they will last longer.


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## Steve Kroll

And before anyone mentions "red wine headaches", the current thinking is that histamines play more of a role than sulphites. If you are prone to getting headaches from red wine, try taking half a benadryl with a big glass of water before drinking red wine and see if that helps. Don't take large doses of benadryl with wine, though, as it's a mild depressant and the effects can be cumulative when combined with alcohol.


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## Cooking Goddess

Steve Kroll said:


> And before anyone mentions "red wine headaches", the current thinking is that histamines play more of a role than sulphites...



I'm prone to believe that the reason for "red wine headaches" is too much red wine!  

My BIL earned a sales trip to France (headquarters for the company he had been with) and thoroughly enjoyed the wine there.  He claimed it didn't give him headaches because the French wine contained no sulphites.  I told him all wine contains sulphites since they occur naturally. I've heard that additional sulphites are added to US wines - true or false?  However, if the histamines were the cause wouldn't he have a headache no matter where the wine was made?


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## taxlady

I always thought they meant the sulfites used to make sure the bottles were microbe free. I have a friend who can drink any old white wine, but needs her reds to be organic.


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## Steve Kroll

Almost all wine contains added sulfite, in addition to that which occurs naturally. It's been an ingredient which has been added since Roman times. French wine contains just as much added sulfite as American wine. The difference is that in the EU, they aren't required to put it on the label. Buy a bottle of French wine here, and you'll see it on the label, because we require it by law.

 Rather than me blather on about the causes of wine headaches, I found an article in the Wall Street Journal that explains it well:

Why Do I Get Headaches From Wine? - Wine - WSJ.com


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## Cooking Goddess

Interesting article Steve.  I'm inclined, though, to believe my BIL problem is all in his head.


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## Mad Cook

sam111 said:


> For wine if I had cranberries , grapes , strawberrry ,...etc juices would all I have to do is add a packet of active yeast to make wine or alcoholed fruit drinks?
> 
> And If so how long after adding the yeast to the fruit juice will it take. And should it be refrigerated ?
> 
> For beer it seems like the same process a round about with barely,hops, and some water
> 
> The only harder alcohols one would need more things for is the harder alcohol
> like vodka, brandy (distilled wine),gin,whisky ,.... etc since these are more concentrated since they are just really the distillation of the more simple ones usually


You need a good book on homemade wine making to tell you how to do it  - I can recommend "First Steps in Winemaking" by C. J*.* J. Berry *...*. It is more complicated than you suggest. The equipment has to be spotlessly clean, the ingredients well balanced or the results can be very nasty indeed. My mother used to win prizes for her home made fruit wines.

As for distilling alcohol, there is only one word - *DON'T*! Apart from being illegal in many places it can be extremely dangerous as, unless you really know what you are doing, you can produce an extremely poisonous variety of alcohol


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## Mad Cook

Steve Kroll said:


> Almost all wine contains added sulfite, in addition to that which occurs naturally. It's been an ingredient which has been added since Roman times. French wine contains just as much added sulfite as American wine. The difference is that in the EU, they aren't required to put it on the label. Buy a bottle of French wine here, and you'll see it on the label, because we require it by law.
> 
> Rather than me blather on about the causes of wine headaches, I found an article in the Wall Street Journal that explains it well:
> 
> Why Do I Get Headaches From Wine? - Wine - WSJ.com


 Interesting but I get a headache from a glass of "New World" (ie American, Australian, etc.,) red wine but can drink half a bottle of the equivalent style of  European red wine with no ill effects. I don't know if white wine is the same as I don't drink it - it sets my GFD running riot. I was always told that New World reds had substances added that were not permitted in French, etc., wines


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## Mad Cook

Hoot said:


> Hard to beat scuppernongs for homemade wine, jelly, jam, or just plain eating. JMHO. The local wild grapes....we call them bullous (sp?), are mighty good too.


Bullous? over here a bullace is a variety of plum, a little like a damson.


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## Addie

Distilled alcohol? Ever hear of "Bathtub Gin?" Do yourself a favor and get an education on it. Then forget the idea. That is unless you want to go blind or kill yourself and some friends  who would be foolish enough to try it.


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## Steve Kroll

Mad Cook said:


> Interesting but I get a headache from a glass of "New World" (ie American, Australian, etc.,) red wine but can drink half a bottle of the equivalent style of  European red wine with no ill effects. I don't know if white wine is the same as I don't drink it - it sets my GFD running riot. I was always told that New World reds had substances added that were not permitted in French, etc., wines



Hogwash. Believe it or not, wine making standards are pretty much the same the world round. Take sulfites for example. The amount of SO2 added to wine isn't arbitrary. It's carefully measured and based on a formula. The same formula is used in France as it is anywhere else. Believe me, no winemaker wants to add more than the required amount of metabisulfite needed to provide microbial stability.

As for new world wines having substances added that aren't permitted elsewhere, if that were truly the case, those wines couldn't be sold in other markets. In fact, many of the wine making additives and yeasts used worldwide, including France and much of the EU, are manufactured by a Canadian company called Lallemand.

Now if you want to talk about strange things being added to wine, here is a bit of trivia. Up until 1998, when the practice was banned by the EU, France was allowed to add dried oxblood to their wines (mostly in Burgundy and the Rhone Valley). Just something to keep in mind the next time you uncork an old bottle of Côte-Rôtie.


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## Addie

I would take Steve's word before anyone else's.


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## Mad Cook

Steve Kroll said:


> Hogwash. Believe it or not, wine making standards are pretty much the same the world round. Take sulfites for example. The amount of SO2 added to wine isn't arbitrary. It's carefully measured and based on a formula. The same formula is used in France as it is anywhere else. Believe me, no winemaker wants to add more than the required amount of metabisulfite needed to provide microbial stability.
> 
> As for new world wines having substances added that aren't permitted elsewhere, if that were truly the case, those wines couldn't be sold in other markets. In fact, many of the wine making additives and yeasts used worldwide, including France and much of the EU, are manufactured by a Canadian company called Lallemand.
> 
> Now if you want to talk about strange things being added to wine, here is a bit of trivia. Up until 1998, when the practice was banned by the EU, France was allowed to add dried oxblood to their wines (mostly in Burgundy and the Rhone Valley). Just something to keep in mind the next time you uncork an old bottle of Côte-Rôtie.


No need to be rude. I was only reporting what I've been told not what I know to be true.

The ox (or bull's)-blood story used to be (and still sometimes is) told about a Hungarian red called Egri Bikavér. It's largely apocryphal in that case, dating from the 16th century when bulls blood is said to have been added to a batch of wine to boost the bravery of Hungarian soldiers defending the country against the Turks.

Blood wasn't actually a part of the French wine that you drank. It was used as an ingredient of a product widely used as finings to clear wine. It was indeed, banned in the 1990s as a result of BSE


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## Steve Kroll

Mad Cook said:


> No need to be rude. I was only reporting what I've been told not what I know to be true.
> 
> The ox (or bull's)-blood story used to be (and still sometimes is) told about a Hungarian red called Egri Bikavér. It's largely apocryphal in that case, dating from the 16th century when bulls blood is said to have been added to a batch of wine to boost the bravery of Hungarian soldiers defending the country against the Turks.
> 
> Blood wasn't actually a part of the French wine that you drank. It was used as an ingredient of a product widely used as finings to clear wine. It was indeed, banned in the 1990s as a result of BSE


If I came off as rude, I apologize. That certainly wasn't my intent.

You are correct about oxblood being used as a fining agent. 

I've read some of the articles you mention where people have expressed concerns about wine additives, some of which do contain what might be considered odd ingredients; egg whites, ground crustacean shells, inactive yeast, etc. What most of these folks don't seem to understand is the process of "fining," or clarifying a wine. These natural compounds are in fact added to wine and later removed. Their purpose is to bind chemically to unwanted proteins and toxins (primarily yeast waste material) and separate them from the wine. The sediment falls to the bottom of the tank or cask so the clear wine can be separated. In other words, fining agents are used to clarify the wine, but aren't part of the finished product.

In my own wine making, I try to use as few of these things as are needed. Most of the time nothing is needed at all. Wine stored in barrels normally falls sparkling clear within about 6 months without any intervention whatsoever. When I make white wine, I sometimes have to use a clay based compound called bentonite, which binds to and removes floating proteins that will otherwise cause a wine to appear cloudy. 

For the most part, I stay away from any animal based products like those I mentioned above. I don't have a problem with them myself, but people understandably sometimes get the heebie-jeebies if you tell them you used fish bladders or egg whites in the process.


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## taxlady

Steve Kroll said:


> ...
> For the most part, I stay away from any animal based products like those I mentioned above. I don't have a problem with them myself, but people understandably sometimes get the heebie-jeebies if you tell them you used fish bladders or egg whites in the process.


 Yeah, I can see how that could happen. And, it wouldn't be vegan.


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## Mad Cook

Steve Kroll said:


> If I came off as rude, I apologize. That certainly wasn't my intent.
> 
> You are correct about oxblood being used as a fining agent.
> 
> I've read some of the articles you mention where people have expressed concerns about wine additives, some of which do contain what might be considered odd ingredients; egg whites, ground crustacean shells, inactive yeast, etc. What most of these folks don't seem to understand is the process of "fining," or clarifying a wine. These natural compounds are in fact added to wine and later removed. Their purpose is to bind chemically to unwanted proteins and toxins (primarily yeast waste material) and separate them from the wine. The sediment falls to the bottom of the tank or cask so the clear wine can be separated. In other words, fining agents are used to clarify the wine, but aren't part of the finished product.
> 
> In my own wine making, I try to use as few of these things as are needed. Most of the time nothing is needed at all. Wine stored in barrels normally falls sparkling clear within about 6 months without any intervention whatsoever. When I make white wine, I sometimes have to use a clay based compound called bentonite, which binds to and removes floating proteins that will otherwise cause a wine to appear cloudy.
> 
> For the most part, I stay away from any animal based products like those I mentioned above. I don't have a problem with them myself, but people understandably sometimes get the heebie-jeebies if you tell them you used fish bladders or egg whites in the process.


 Apology accepted.

I think my mother used to use bentonite for clearing her homemade wines when necessary. A form of clay, I think?


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