# Dairy free, maybe even sugar free too, cake frosting??



## mcrx

Basically looking for a dairy free/possibly sugar free cake frosting substitute, since I no longer want to eat cream cheese or pure sugar. Can anyone help?
Thanks!


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## CakePoet

Nut butter  or soy whip  or mashed fruit?


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## Aunt Bea

Not sure what you mean by pure sugar.

You could try an old 7 minute frosting made with honey or pure maple syrup instead of sugar and water.

Personally I would just skip the frosting and make a pound cake, carrot cake, banana cake, etc... and serve it plain or with fruit as CakePoet mentioned above.


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## GotGarlic

Aunt Bea said:


> Not sure what you mean by pure sugar.
> 
> You could try an old 7 minute frosting made with honey or pure maple syrup instead of sugar and water.



That confused me, too. Honey and maple syrup are essentially sugar, too.


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## Steve Kroll

If you're okay with honey, you might want to look at some paleo options, since that diet is low(er) carb, and dairy free.

Otherwise, I've been on the ketogenic diet for over 2 years. It's all sugar free, and, although not dairy free by definition, there are quite a few adherents who don't use dairy. 

This gal, Carolyn Ketchum, makes some amazing dessert recipes, and here's a link on one of her pages for dairy free recipes (not necessarily for just frosting, although some of the recipes are for cakes):

Best Low Carb Dairy Free Dessert Recipes | All Day I Dream About Food


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## msmofet

I used to by vegan sugar free cupcakes (I think it was Whole Foods) that had frosting made with soy products and sugar substitute. Really couldn't tell the difference.


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## CraigC

What little I eat with frosting, I want the full Monte! Having anything else,  IMO, is worthless.


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## Steve Kroll

CraigC said:


> What little I eat with frosting, I want the full Monte! Having anything else,  IMO, is worthless.


Unfortunately, some of us don't have that option.


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## CakePoet

There is a banana,  peanutbutter and  coco powder  frosting fro cake, sadly I cant find it.  But it doesnt use  white sugar, just bananas  for sweetness.


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## LPBeier

I make a gluten free/dairy free frosting using coconut milk. You could use coconut sugar with it as well. It won't be pure white but it will taste good. For the butter, I use Earthbound spreads. We get the one with no soy - it is palm oil and tastes great.


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## CraigC

Steve Kroll said:


> Unfortunately, some of us don't have that option.



The OP didn't say they could not have it, just that they didn't want it.


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## Steve Kroll

CraigC said:


> The OP didn't say they could not have it, just that they didn't want it.


Yes, but you also stated that anything else is worthless. That's simply not true. Sugar makes me physically ill, but there are still times I want something sweet. So I've had to learn to make desserts without sugar or flour. I'm pretty picky, and I'll say that some of them taste every bit as good as their sugar-filled counterparts (admittedly, some don't). I've taken desserts to potlucks and get togethers, and most people can't tell the difference.

As far as frosting goes, I've had low carb cream cheese frosting that's excellent. I've made some killer ganache, too.


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## jennyema

mcrx said:


> Basically looking for a dairy free/possibly sugar free cake frosting substitute, since I no longer want to eat cream cheese or pure sugar. Can anyone help?
> Thanks!


 

Isn't there "pure sugar" in the cake itself?

And, likely, dairy?



Is it just cream cheese you don't want to eat?  Because most frostings don't use it.  But they do use other dairy products.


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## CharlieD

The cream that I make for Napoleon is usually made with milk, but it can be substituted with non-dairy creamer, I use Coffee Rich sold in frozen section of grocery store. Sugar maybe cut down, not sure by how much though. There is the recipe on the site just go into search and you will find.


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## LPBeier

I think the OP probably meant "pure sugar" as in mostly sugar which many frostings are.


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## msmofet

CharlieD said:


> The cream that I make for Napoleon is usually made with milk, but it can be substituted with non-dairy creamer, I use Coffee Rich sold in frozen section of grocery store. Sugar maybe cut down, not sure by how much though. There is the recipe on the site just go into search and you will find.



Charlie can you please post the link to your recipe.


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## CakePoet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItLT6eUIVb8


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## Aunt Bea

CakePoet said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItLT6eUIVb8



Thanks, I'll give this a try!!!


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## CharlieD

Here is the recipe:
Napoleon.
Ingredients:
5 – Eggs
5 – cups milk (or non-dairy creamer such as Coffee Rich if milk is a problem/allergy)
5 – Tablespoons flour
5 – Tablespoons sugar
1 – Stick butter (or margarine)
1 or 2 - tablespoons vanilla
1 package of Pepperidge Farm pastry dough (Puff Pastry)(store bought)
Grated Chocolate or whip cream for decorating (optional)
Directions:
Dough. There are couple of options, depending how thick you like the baked layers to be, you can cut the defrosted dough into 6 pieces, roll it out thin and bake or bake as is. I like the dough to be thick, so I do not roll it out thin and bake as is. It is very important to poke the dough with fork all over or use pizza roller (the one with spikes). It will help with baking it evenly. Cut the ends of the baked sheets evenly; do Not discard the leftover crumbs, you can use them as a topping.
Cream. Put 4 cups of milk, 1 stick of butter, all the sugar and vanilla into a pot. Bring to a boil at medium heat. You will need to whisk or stir it periodically until it starts boiling. While the mixture is heating up take the rest of the milk (1 cup) + 5 eggs + 5 tablespoons flour mix it all together. Make sure there are no lumps. Slowly add/pour the mixture into the pot, constantly mixing. The mixture should come to a boil, turn down the heat, cook slowly until thickens, constantly stirring or whisking. If you like the cake really moist you can spread ready mixture when it is hot. I do not like it moist, prefer the cake to be still a bit crunchy when you bite into it, so I usually let it cool and spread the cream right before dinner. You’ll have to experiment to see which way you like better. You can pre-bake the pastry and pre-make the cream a day or even two ahead. But I have to say it tastes better when fresh. If you like lemon or maybe even some other flavor you can add along with the vanilla.
The recipe could be doubled, tripled or even quadruple (my favorite one, really tall).

I use grated chocolate along with crushed trimmings of the baked layers to sprinkle on the top of the cake, you can use whip cream if you like.

P.S. Depending on how much frosting you like, which I don't, you can use more dough, use 2 packages of pastry dough. Also I like to bake an extra layer and then crush and use as the topping. Kind of sprinkle over the top layer of frosting.


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## msmofet

Thank you Charlie.


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## GotGarlic

LPBeier said:


> I think the OP probably meant "pure sugar" as in mostly sugar which many frostings are.



She said she didn't want to eat pure sugar anymore, and jennyema asked whether there's "pure sugar" in the cake itself, which there usually is, right?


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## mcrx

long respond made short- though it was kinda nice to have been thought as vague with the Pure Sugar, because I got a few more ideas this way/some discussion, but what I meant was ADDED sugar, like fruits are acceptable (except oranges for some reason). Technically, per doctor's recommendations, I shouldn't have any even in the cake itself. When I make them myself, I can aim for this ideal, but right now I'm on box mixes which likely have some sugar. But so HONEY is actually the ideal substitute. Speaking of honey, I just went to look at my bottle and it has completely "crystalized"? (just Googled this concept). I would have snapped a pic, but no time. 

TODAY's QUESTION: Can I really heat this (bottled honey) over a water bath on the stove?? I suppose so. I did this with a plastic bottle of coconut oil once. But it was for my hair use, no't for eating. 

Anyway, that's the honey, er sugar clarification. 

The DAIRY part. Yes, I need to cut it completely. Sadly, even yogurt (unless it's pure something or something. I don't even remember to be honest. Husband might. But we have yet to find this) is off limits, to follow this strictly. It's the inflammation aspect of it, because yogurt was so amazing for my tummy. Anyway, um...yeah. Thing that answers things. I have to run, but I'll comment more thoroughly next time.

Thanks all!


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## GotGarlic

Hi, mcrx. DH and I took a course in beekeeping last winter and started two beehives last spring. Yes, you can heat the crystallized honey and it will be fine to use, although it will recrystallize when it cools, so only heat as much as you need. You can put it in a microwave-safe dish and heat it there, or in a water bath. 

But honey is not very different from refined white sugar. In fact, all sugars (white, brown, agave, maple syrup, etc.) are chemically very similar and are metabolized the same way by the body. So using honey is still adding sugar to your diet. And box mixes definitely contain sugar.

Btw, I have a couple of chronic health issues so I have spent a lot of time with doctors. I suggest you bring a notebook with you to your appointments to take notes on what the doctor tells you. It can definitely be hard to remember everything later


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## mcrx

GotGarlic said:


> Hi, mcrx. DH and I took a course in beekeeping last winter and started two beehives last spring. Yes, you can heat the crystallized honey and it will be fine to use, although it will recrystallize when it cools, so only heat as much as you need. You can put it in a microwave-safe dish and heat it there, or in a water bath.
> 
> But honey is not very different from refined white sugar. In fact, all sugars (white, brown, agave, maple syrup, etc.) are chemically very similar and are metabolized the same way by the body. So using honey is still adding sugar to your diet. And box mixes definitely contain sugar.
> 
> Btw, I have a couple of chronic health issues so I have spent a lot of time with doctors. I suggest you bring a notebook with you to your appointments to take notes on what the doctor tells you. It can definitely be hard to remember everything later



Hey! Awesome! 
Yes, I understand it is sugar too, but it has other health benefits as opposed to ?regular? sugar. Anyway, it is definitely doctor approved supplement. And yes, I do have notes for most of this, just somehow I missed the yogurt one. :P

wait. just asked. It's yogurt with "live active cultures" (so, homemade kind?) I'll have to look into this more/ask around.


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## GotGarlic

mcrx said:


> Hey! Awesome!
> Yes, I understand it is sugar too, but it has other health benefits as opposed to ?regular? sugar. Anyway, it is definitely doctor approved supplement.



No, it doesn't. Some people think it can inoculate against allergies, but good quality studies show that isn't true. Because of its viscosity, it has been used successfully in the past as a wound covering, but that's an external use. Once it's in the stomach, it's quickly broken down into simple sugars and absorbed just like any other sweetener.


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## CharlieD

msmofet said:


> Thank you Charlie.




You're welcome 


Sent from my iPhone using Discuss Cooking


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## GotGarlic

mcrx said:


> Hey! Awesome!
> Yes, I understand it is sugar too, but it has other health benefits as opposed to ?regular? sugar. Anyway, it is definitely doctor approved supplement.



Just curious. Is this a "functional" doctor? 

And - your doctor considers cake and frosting to be supplements?


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## CharlieD

Honey may not be any different from sugar as far as sugar goes, but it has other health benefits.


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## GotGarlic

CharlieD said:


> Honey may not be any different from sugar as far as sugar goes, but it has other health benefits.



What are those other health benefits?


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## CharlieD

What's the first thing doctors recommends when a person has cold?


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## dragnlaw

GotGarlic said:


> What are those other health benefits?



Are you going to run a contest to see how many people can name the benefits that are associated with honey?  Or do you really not know?


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## GotGarlic

CharlieD said:


> What's the first thing doctors recommends when a person has cold?



Cold medicine.


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## GotGarlic

dragnlaw said:


> Are you going to run a contest to see how many people can name the benefits that are associated with honey?  Or do you really not know?



No. Do you have something helpful to say?


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## CharlieD

GotGarlic said:


> Cold medicine.



Normal doctor will tell you to drink tea or hot milk with Honey, not cold medicine.


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## GotGarlic

CharlieD said:


> Normal doctor will tell you to drink tea or hot milk with Honey, not cold medicine.



That might soothe the sore throat temporarily, but it doesn't treat symptoms like coughing, sneezing, headache and congestion. It doesn't cure the cold, so I don't consider it a "health benefit." And I'm pretty sure that if you ask any MD or DO what to do for a cold, they will tell you to take an over-the-counter cold remedy.


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## CakePoet

Honey is used to  treat bedsores, leg sores and  burns here in Sweden,  because it contains a natural antibiotic. Yes, we do normal antibiotics to but Honey has shown to be really good on  sore that wont heal.

Also honey is recommend as cold remedy, since it is actually as effective as  cough medicine.  Here we dont use a combination of  antihistamines, painkillers and  mucus suppressant or softener in one drug.  So  no NyQuil ( it is even illegal here).


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## GotGarlic

CakePoet said:


> Honey is used to  treat bedsores, leg sores and  burns here in Sweden,  because it contains a natural antibiotic. Yes, we do normal antibiotics to but Honey has shown to be really good on  sore that wont heal.



I had a wound that wouldn't heal for about a year and none of my doctors suggested honey. 



CakePoet said:


> Also honey is recommend as cold remedy, since *it is actually as effective as  cough medicine*.  Here we dont use a combination of  antihistamines, painkillers and  mucus suppressant or softener in one drug.  So  no NyQuil ( it is even illegal here).



Interesting. I'd like to see some clinical studies that confirm that.


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## CakePoet

GotGarlic: It is medical grade honey,  not the stuff you get out of jars. However the stuff in jars  can be used on  sunburned skin with good effect. 

Well odd that they didnt try that. It been around  for few years now, the best is the Manuka honey.

I can only find studies in Swedish, I tried google translate I be honest, it didnt translate well enough.


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## msmofet

My grandfather was a bee keeper and used honey, royal jelly and bee stings for medicinal purposes often. 

I just found this:

"While its food uses are infinite, most people are unaware of honey's wound care capabilities, a trait that can help an infected wound properly heal in orderly fashion. From burn wounds, bacterial infections to pressure ulcers, honey is an everyday household product that can provide numerous healing benefits. May 14, 2014

>>> Honey Can Help Wound Healing

It states - DO NOT USE REGULAR HONEY 

Unsure of the reliability of the site.


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## CakePoet

Even the bible  apparently talks about how good honey can be for  curing sores and colds. 
How ever  you should be careful  of eating red rhododendron honey, it also known as mad honey , it is  gives you a high and can be overdosed.


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## GotGarlic

CakePoet said:


> GotGarlic: It is medical grade honey,  not the stuff you get out of jars. However the stuff in jars  can be used on  sunburned skin with good effect.
> 
> Well odd that they didnt try that. It been around  for few years now, the best is the Manuka honey.
> 
> I can only find studies in Swedish, I tried google translate I be honest, it didnt translate well enough.



What is medical grade honey? I get mine from the hive 

I did mention before that people used to (here, at least) use honey in the past for a wound dressing, but I find it hard to believe it's more effective than modern methods. It's certainly messier


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## CharlieD

GotGarlic said:


> That might soothe the sore throat temporarily, but it doesn't treat symptoms like coughing, sneezing, headache and congestion. It doesn't cure the cold, so I don't consider it a "health benefit." And I'm pretty sure that if you ask any MD or DO what to do for a cold, they will tell you to take an over-the-counter cold remedy.



Nothing cures the cold. Cold goes away on it's own. Rest is the most important thing for cold. Ok, here in the States who has time to rest, thus hundreds of kinds of "cold medicine" that doesn't really cure anything. Might as well take something that will make you feel better and stay in bed. Honey is just the thing.


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## CharlieD

GotGarlic said:


> I had a wound that wouldn't heal for about a year and none of my doctors suggested honey.




  Why would you think doctors would suggest anything natural? What are the big pharmaceuticals are going to say and do about that. The first doctors that prescribes honey will be deemed a Witch doctor and taking his/hers licence away. Please. Doctors are in cochutz with medicine makers and are totally subservient to them. 
What do you think our grandparents did? There was no Robitussin or Chloraseptic.


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## CakePoet

GotGarlic: if you get it directly from the hive and declared safe  ( there is something that in rare cases can come along with honey) , then yes medical grade honey.  Store bought honey is  a little too old most often to work as good as fresh honey.


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## GotGarlic

CharlieD said:


> Why would you think doctors would suggest anything natural? What are the big pharmaceuticals are going to say and do about that. The first doctors that prescribes honey will be deemed a Witch doctor and taking his/hers licence away. Please. Doctors are in cochutz with medicine makers and are totally subservient to them.
> What do you think our grandparents did? There was no Robitussin or Chloraseptic.



That's a little too conspiracy-theorist for me, Charlie. If something is proven to be safe and effective, doctors use it. Copper is well-known to be a good anti-bacterial (used externally; internally, it's poisonous, unless you're actually deficient which is exceedingly rare). The last time I had surgery, I was in a new wing of a hospital where the hospital gowns, the sheets and blankets and the bedside table were impregnated with copper to reduce infection. There are lots of opportunities for smart people to incorporate "natural" remedies in modern medicine - if they actually work. Most of them don't, unless they're refined and the dose standardized.

Our grandparents suffered a lot. And the average life expectancy in 1900 was about 45. So they lost limbs or died of infectious diseases where people in modern times do not. Childbirth used to be one of the most dangerous things a woman did in her lifetime; women frequently died of it because of uncontrolled bleeding or infection.


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## GotGarlic

CakePoet said:


> GotGarlic: if you get it directly from the hive and declared safe  ( there is something that in rare cases can come along with honey) , then yes medical grade honey.  Store bought honey is  a little too old most often to work as good as fresh honey.



Botulism can be in honey. Is that what you mean? And honey doesn't break down. Why would it be too old?


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## Dawgluver

Honey found in some ancient Egyptian tombs was found to be edible!

They advise not feeding honey to babies due to the risk of botulism.


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## jennyema

Dawgluver said:


> They advise not feeding honey to babies due to the risk of botulism.




Hmmmmm.....  why not adults too ?


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## GotGarlic

Dawgluver said:


> Honey found in some ancient Egyptian tombs was found to be edible!
> 
> They advise not feeding honey to babies due to the risk of botulism.



+1. Virginia's regulations on selling homemade items require a label on honey containers that warns against giving honey to infants less than one year of age.


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## CakePoet

Because  infants doesnt have an immune system the same way as older  children.

Did you know our brains  thinks honey is sweeter then  sugar,  if you have  two containers with the same amount of sugar , one being honey and one being pure sugar, our brains will tell  us stop munching on the honey quicker.


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## GotGarlic

jennyema said:


> Hmmmmm.....  why not adults too ?



An infant's immune system is not as well developed. Older children and most adults can fight it off. Fresh fruits, vegetables, herbs and honey all carry botulism spores, since it's in the ground; there has to be a certain amount of growth before it overwhelms the immune system and becomes dangerous.


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