# Can I run this idea by you all?



## Caslon (Jul 23, 2018)

A  produce storage system for the kitchen that incorporates the use of nitrogen gas to drive out oxygen, which is the leading spoiler of stored fruits and vegetable. It would consist of various sized plastic storage containers with an inlet to inject nitrogen gas as well as a one-way exhaust vent so the oxygen is forced out.

I'm looking into possibly making a prototype and doing comparison tests to see if the container with nitrogen injected keeps produce fresh longer.  The final product as envisioned would have small cylinders filled with nitrogen and or carbon dioxide. It would inject a measured amount of gas suitable for the various sizes of containers provided.  

Costs I've yet to consider. 1. The price to produce the small nitrogen cylinders. 2. The price to design and manufacture the plastic storage containers with gas insert and exhaust vents. 3. The cost effectiveness of the nitrogen with repeated opening and closing of the containers.

I would make a crude homemade prototype first to evaluate the effectiveness of the nitrogen gas keeping produce fresh longer and by how much longer.

I'm only at the feasibility stage at this point.  Feel free to comment, please.


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## caseydog (Jul 24, 2018)

The principle of using and inert gas, like nitrogen, to keep food from oxidizing makes sense. How you do it and make it cost effective is the real question. It will need to be cheaper than just throwing the oxidized food away, for the average consumer to buy into it. 

BTW, oxidized food is not the same as spoiled food. Many foods that are still perfectly safe to cook and eat just don't look good, so people throw them away. 

Finding a way to keep perfectly good food looking good would be great. I can easily imagine that tons of food gets thrown away because it doesn't look good, due to oxygenation. 

I wish you the best!

CD


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## Caslon (Jul 24, 2018)

Thanks Casey.

I Googled food grade nitrogen cylinders. That'll cost me $70 at least. A standard rubbermaid type container will do.  I think if I look hard enough I can find a one way vent valve of some kind, tho I may have to purchase 100 of them minimum ($100). I'd cut the lid and glue that in. I'd need to find a small gas intake nipple  and glue that onto the lid, and then find a compatible tank and hose connector to inject the gas from the tank. I'd make a comparison to see if it extends the freshness to a degree that warrants the overall projected cost and touted benefits. 

I envision it as a product that will appear on QVC or HSN within 5 years. The exact opposite of sucking gas out,  rather, putting gas in.       Crazy? Maybe.


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## Andy M. (Jul 24, 2018)

Sounds like an interesting idea. I'd love it if I could keep my fresh produce long enough to eat it rather than it's rotting and being tossed.

Keep in mind that if you don't use all of the food in a container at the same time, the containers would have to be re-charged after each opening/closing.


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## Caslon (Jul 24, 2018)

Andy M. said:


> Sounds like an interesting idea. I'd love it if I could keep my fresh produce long enough to eat it rather than it's rotting and being tossed.
> 
> Keep in mind that if you don't use all of the food in a container at the same time, the containers would have to be re-charged after each opening/closing.



The buyer would have to keep in mind,  this might be a way to keep produce fresh, but not  if accessed every day.


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## Mad Cook (Jul 27, 2018)

The thing that comes to mind is "Why?". For how long do you want to keep food? nto the next millennium? If you are thinking about Armageddon you should bear in mind that there probably wouldn't be any nitrogen cylinders available. The principle of refridgeration was invented nearly 200 years ago and household ones were available from about 1913. I can only assume this new idea is a man thing similar to reinventing the wheel.

It reminds me of the very old joke - "My wife deals with the trivial things like the laundry, what we should eat, looking after the children, etc., while I concentrate on the important things - such as whether we should develop the atom bomb"


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## Andy M. (Jul 27, 2018)

Mad Cook said:


> The thing that comes to mind is "Why?". For how long do you want to keep food? nto the next millennium? If you are thinking about Armageddon you should bear in mind that there probably wouldn't be any nitrogen cylinders available.
> 
> I can only assume this is a man thing.
> 
> It reminds me of the very old joke - "My wife deals with the trivial things like the laundry, what we should eat, looking after the children, etc., while I concentrate on the important things - such as whether we should develop the atom bomb"



No need to be so nasty/negative. He's simply trying to come up with a way to extend the life of produce in the fridge.


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## Caslon (Jul 27, 2018)

Actually it WAS born of something. Making greens last longer before they're compost material. To that end, manufacturers of produce products pump nitrogen/carbon dioxide into the package. I don't need it to last  super long, but longer than opening the bag  and having oxygen start doing  its thing to spoil what's inside.


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## Cooking Goddess (Jul 29, 2018)

Um, you could buy a head of iceberg or romaine. I don't have a problem with those spoiling rapidly. Heck, we went on vacation for two weeks with a couple small heads of romaine still in their bag in the veggie drawer. They were perfectly edible when we returned from our trip.


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## taxlady (Jul 30, 2018)

There are wine cabinets that use nitrogen. The ones I have seen were in bars or restos that serve wine by the glass.  The nitrogen is pumped into the bottle, forcing the wine out and keeping oxygen out of the bottle.  Yes, there is a fancy valve inserted into the bottle. Maybe you could get some ideas from the design of those cabinets.


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## Mad Cook (Aug 10, 2018)

Andy M. said:


> No need to be so nasty/negative. He's simply trying to come up with a way to extend the life of produce in the fridge.


 No, Andy. It's perfectly reasonable to ask why and he DID ask for opinions.

When we are asked for our opinion do you think we should we should put on a false smile and say "What a wonderfully clever idea " when it clearly is no such thing in a domestic scenario. And then snigger about the OP's silly idea behind his back?


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## Andy M. (Aug 10, 2018)

Mad Cook said:


> No, Andy. It's perfectly reasonable to ask why and he DID ask for opinions.
> 
> When we are asked for our opinion do you think we should we should put on a false smile and say "What a wonderfully clever idea " when it clearly is no such thing in a domestic scenario. And then snigger about the OP's silly idea behind his back?



It's fine to offer constructive criticism. You didn't do that.

_*"For how long do you want to keep food? nto the next millennium? If you are thinking about Armageddon you should bear in mind that there probably wouldn't be any nitrogen cylinders available."

"I can only assume this new idea is a man thing similar to reinventing the wheel."

"It reminds me of the very old joke - "My wife deals with the trivial things like the laundry, what we should eat, looking after the children, etc., while I concentrate on the important things - such as whether we should develop the atom bomb""*_

This isn't constructive criticism. I see sarcasm and male bashing. Both things better kept to yourself.


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## buckytom (Aug 10, 2018)

I hink that this is a great idea if it could be made inexpensively, and safely. Maybe someday we will all have a Caslonerator (inert gas fresh food storage unit) in our kitchens right next to the refrigerator and microwave.

Any cost effective device that prevents food waste is a good thing.


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## Caslon (Aug 10, 2018)

Mad Cook said:


> When we are asked for our opinion do you think we should we should put on a false smile and say "What a wonderfully clever idea " when it clearly is no such thing in a domestic scenario.



I'm sure some thought that when the first domestic vacuum sealer was proposed ("...it clearly is no such thing in a domestic scenario").  There are now millions of them sitting on kitchen counters and in kitchen cupboards.


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## Rocklobster (Aug 10, 2018)

buckytom said:


> Any cost effective device that prevents food waste is a good thing.


I`ve always wondered why people in colder climates just can`t use the outside air in the winter to keep their refrigerators cold..Hook your fridge to the outside using a vent like your clothes dryer, exept this would work in reverse..when your fridge got too warm a fan would come on and suck the cold air from outside into the fridge..you could have a series of filters so you don`t get any unwanted debris or critters...up here, we get months of freezing weather..not sure why it isn`t done


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## Caslon (Aug 10, 2018)

Rocklobster said:


> I`ve always wondered why people in colder climates just can`t use the outside air in the winter to keep their refrigerators cold..



It might someday be worthwhile if that idea is designed into the house from the get go.


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## Rocklobster (Aug 10, 2018)

Caslon said:


> It might someday be worthwhile if that idea is designed into the house from the get go.


Yeah..the fridge would probably have to back on to an outside wall, so there would be some kitchen designs to consider, for sure


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## Caslon (Aug 11, 2018)

Rocklobster said:


> Yeah..the fridge would probably have to back on to an outside wall, so there would be some kitchen designs to consider, for sure



As well as an air filter which would require changing.


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## JustJoel (Aug 11, 2018)

Caslon said:


> As well as an air filter which would require changing.


And the cost of the power needed to run an efficient ventilation system 24/7.


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## Caslon (Aug 11, 2018)

buckytom said:


> I hink that this is a great idea if it could be made inexpensively, and safely. Maybe someday we will all have a Caslonerator (inert gas fresh food storage unit) in our kitchens right next to the refrigerator and microwave.
> 
> Any cost effective device that prevents food waste is a good thing.



I'm looking to turn a simple idea into a 30 minute informercial and product as seen on QVC.   Containers and bags allowing nitrogen gas to be introduced.


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## buckytom (Aug 11, 2018)

Will you double my order for free, just pay shipping and handling?


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## Caslon (Aug 11, 2018)

buckytom said:


> Will you double my order for free, just pay shipping and handling?



You got it!  Expect a late night infomercial about putting gas into something instead of sucking it out. Packaging processing plants do that everyday, on a mass scale.  So do food processing machines that extracted air out. Someone came up with the idea to extract air out  like big packaging machines do. 

Many probably laughed at the idea of a kitchen counter unit doing the same as a factory packaging machine which extracts air out.

I'm thinking along the same line.  Putting gas in.  Not done before now. Kitchen counter sized appliance.

Wanna bet someone beats me to it?


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## Just Cooking (Aug 11, 2018)

Rocklobster said:


> *I`ve always wondered why people in colder climates just can`t use the outside air in the winter to keep their refrigerators cold.*


  Hope this memory isn't too far off topic..


When I grew up in the 40's on the California coast, our house (and many surrounding houses) had a screened cabinet on the outside wall of the kitchen.. This was a natural cooler for all sorts of pantry items.. It didn't serve as a fridge but, things which didn't need 40 degree temps were stored there..


Ross


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## Caslon (Aug 11, 2018)

Just Cooking said:


> Hope this memory isn't too far off topic..
> 
> 
> When I grew up in the 40's on the California coast, our house (and many surrounding houses) had a screened cabinet on the outside wall of the kitchen.. This was a natural cooler for all sorts of pantry items.. It didn't serve as a fridge but, things which didn't need 40 degree temps were stored there..
> ...



That's all you had.  Served you well, no doubt.


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## Rocklobster (Aug 11, 2018)

Caslon said:


> That's all you had.  Served you well, no doubt.


We had summer kitchens.. fall, and spring you could keep almost anything in there..even in the winter if it wasn`t too cold..sorry to hijack Caslon..


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## msmofet (Aug 11, 2018)

Rocklobster said:


> Yeah..the fridge would probably have to back on to an outside wall, so there would be some kitchen designs to consider, for sure



Make it a hybrid so electric kicks in when it gets to warm outside.


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## Caslon (Aug 11, 2018)

Just don't have a garage nearby the intake. Does this salad taste funny to anyone?


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## buckytom (Aug 11, 2018)

Kinda like a sour diesel smoked salad!

(pun intended)


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## GotGarlic (Aug 13, 2018)

Sorry, Caslon. Someone beat you to it. 

https://cen.acs.org/business/food-ingredients/Air-Liquide-launches-food-preservation/96/i32


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## Mad Cook (Aug 13, 2018)

Caslon said:


> I'm sure some thought that when the first domestic vacuum sealer was proposed ("...it clearly is no such thing in a domestic scenario"). There are now millions of them sitting on kitchen counters and in kitchen cupboards.


Specious argument and a very silly comparison.


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## GotGarlic (Aug 13, 2018)

Mad Cook said:


> Specious argument and a very silly comparison.


And yet... <looks *slightly* up the page> https://cen.acs.org/business/food-ingredients/Air-Liquide-launches-food-preservation/96/i32

Do you ever read previous posts before posting?


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## Addie (Aug 13, 2018)

Just Cooking said:


> Hope this memory isn't too far off topic..
> 
> 
> When I grew up in the 40's on the California coast, our house (and many surrounding houses) had a screened cabinet on the outside wall of the kitchen.. This was a natural cooler for all sorts of pantry items.. It didn't serve as a fridge but, things which didn't need 40 degree temps were stored there..
> ...


Not at all Ross. When I was a kid, most homes had an ice box. You know. When the ice man would deliver a block of ice. But in the winter, just about every home had nailed a wooden large milk box to the outside kitchen window sill and stored all foods that required cold. You know, milk, butter, meats, etc. It certainly saved money that would have been spent buying ice. 

I like the idea of trying out inventing a way to save food year round. With just the two of us here, our biggest waste is celery. We never use it all up when I purchase a full stalk. And I think buying the pieces of cut up celery is a major waste of money. Also I like to pick off all the leaves from the stalk and dry them out. They add great flavor to soups and other dishes.


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## Caslon (Aug 14, 2018)

GotGarlic said:


> Do you ever read previous posts before posting?



Not as much as I should GC. My bad.  Do you think something like that will ever  show up on QVC someday?  Or a 30 minute infomercial?  (GC probably says..."undoubtedly").

https://cen.acs.org/business/food-ingredients/Air-Liquide-launches-food-preservation/96/i32


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## GotGarlic (Aug 14, 2018)

Caslon said:


> Not as much as I should GC. My bad.  Do you think something like that will ever  show up on QVC someday?  Or a 30 minute infomercial?  (GC probably says..."undoubtedly").
> 
> https://cen.acs.org/business/food-ingredients/Air-Liquide-launches-food-preservation/96/i32


That comment wasn't meant for you, Caslon.


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