# Questions about "The Bird"



## Adillo303 (Nov 20, 2008)

I plan on tackeling a 14 - 16 # fresh turkey for Thanksgiving. My daughter and I am co-cooking Thanksgiving dinner. Since we both like to cook it can be a lot of fun. DW may get involved, time will tell. Both my daughter (Paula) and I like ot cook. Our families have widely divergant tastes which can lead to interesting times.

Inyway. I ordered "The Bird" and should pick it up Sunday. I am considering injeccting the turkey to enhance flavor and moistness. My quwstions are:
     1) Is this a dumb idea?
     2) If you like it and have done it, what solution doid you use to inject?
     3) If you have doen with and without, how do you feel about it.

On to the stuffing. If time permits, I want to make stuffing bread from scratch and use that as the base for the stuffing in the bird. So many questions here.

     1) I saw Alton Brown cook his bird without stuffing, and add the stuffing afteer the cooking. Won't this deprive the stuffing of Turkey flavor?
     2) Or, will the technique above make the bird dry out due to the stuffing absorbing the liquid?
     3) I am thinking bread  s&P, celery, onion, sausage and sage. What did I forget?
     4) Any other additions, or corrections would be appreciated.

DC has come through for me for so many meals, I am really anxious to sww what Y'all have to say here.

Thank You all so much, in advance

AC (Andy C) (Yup! there's another Andy on the site)


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## GB (Nov 20, 2008)

I will just answer two of your questions.

1. Injecting the bird is not a dumb idea. I have never done it myself, but there is no reason not to do it. Personally, I would rather brine a bird to get flavor and moisture in, but that can sometimes be difficult with such a large bird.

2. As for the stuffing, The reason Alton cooks his stuffing outside of the bird is for safety reasons. If you cook the stuffing inside the bird then the turkey will overcook by the time the stuffing inside reaches a safe temp. The turkey does not dry out because the stuffing is absorbing the liquid. It dries out because you have to leave it in the oven longer than you would if the cavity was empty (or at least empty of stuffing).


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## Uncle Bob (Nov 20, 2008)

This can be interesting......


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## homecook (Nov 20, 2008)

GB said:


> I will just answer two of your questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. As for the stuffing, The reason Alton cooks his stuffing outside of the bird is for safety reasons. If you cook the stuffing inside the bird then the turkey will overcook by the time the stuffing inside reaches a safe temp. The turkey does not dry out because the stuffing is absorbing the liquid. It dries out because you have to leave it in the oven longer than you would if the cavity was empty (or at least empty of stuffing).



I have to disagree with this. I've been stuffing my turkeys for many, many years and my mother and grandmother before me and my turkey does not dry out. The breast meat is always juicy. I make up my stuffing the night before and don't stuff it until right before I put it in the oven. There is nothing in my stuffing to deem it unsafe. Putting the stuffing in the turkey does give it a better flavor than just putting it in a casserole. I always have some leftover that I just bake and it does lack the turkey flavor. My turkeys are usually 20 to 24 pounders.

Barb


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## Andy M. (Nov 20, 2008)

I use this recipe for the turkey and make my own stuffing in a pan.  It always produces a terrific turkey.  Juicy and delicious.  

You can add turkey flavor to the stuffing by using turkey broth when making the stuffing.

Injecting can add great flavors too.  I wouldn't do both injecting and brining.


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## Andy M. (Nov 20, 2008)

homecook said:


> I have to disagree with this. I've been stuffing my turkeys for many, many years and my mother and grandmother before me and my turkey does not dry out. The breast meat is always juicy. I make up my stuffing the night before and don't stuff it until right before I put it in the oven. There is nothing in my stuffing to deem it unsafe. Putting the stuffing in the turkey does give it a better flavor than just putting it in a casserole. I always have some leftover that I just bake and it does lack the turkey flavor. My turkeys are usually 20 to 24 pounders.
> 
> Barb


 

Barb, do you roast the turkey untill the stuffing temperature reaches at least 165 F?  

The issue is not that you put unsafe stuff into your stuffing.  Juices from the turkey go into the stuffing as it cooks.  If the stuffing does not reach a safe temperature, any bacteria present in the turkey will get into the stuffing with the juices and will not get hot enough to be killed off.  That makes for a potentially dangerous situation.  Putting cold stuffing from the fridge intl the turkey would make that situation worse because it will take longer to get the stuffing hot enough to be safe.


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## homecook (Nov 20, 2008)

Andy M. said:


> Barb, do you roast the turkey untill the stuffing temperature reaches at least 165 F?
> 
> The issue is not that you put unsafe stuff into your stuffing.  Juices from the turkey go into the stuffing as it cooks.  If the stuffing does not reach a safe temperature, any bacteria present in the turkey will get into the stuffing with the juices and will not get hot enough to be killed off.  That makes for a potentially dangerous situation.  Putting cold stuffing from the fridge intl the turkey would make that situation worse because it will take longer to get the stuffing hot enough to be safe.



Andy, yes I do cook it until it reaches 165F. I don't put cold stuffing in the turkey. I take the stuffing out and let it come to room temp before I stuff. I use a digital thermometer that stays in the turkey the whole time it's roasting. I'm pretty anal abut doing that to make sure the turkey is safely cooked.

Barb


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## Andy M. (Nov 20, 2008)

homecook said:


> Andy, yes I do cook it until it reaches 165F. I don't put cold stuffing in the turkey. I take the stuffing out and let it come to room temp before I stuff. I use a digital thermometer that stays in the turkey the whole time it's roasting. I'm pretty anal abut doing that to make sure the turkey is safely cooked.
> 
> Barb


 

Sounds like you have it figured out.  That's great.


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## Adillo303 (Nov 20, 2008)

How you do this brining thing? I googled, I really did, I got a whole host of vastly different ways to do it. Suggestions would be appreciated.

Thank You

AC


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## Andy M. (Nov 20, 2008)

Adillo303 said:


> How you do this brining thing? I googled, I really did, I got a whole host of vastly different ways to do it. Suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> Thank You
> 
> AC


 

Click on the link in my first post.  It's all there.


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## GrillingFool (Nov 20, 2008)

I brine, using that link Andy gave.
My wife injects. She likes to mix a little butter and white wine
and give old Tom a needling.
Works out just fine. Probably because the injections are subtle....?


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## ChefJune (Nov 20, 2008)

I'll stay out of this because I've never brined, and have never had a dry bird. I rub butter under and over the skin, AND cover the breast with a butter-soaked cheesecloth.

I don't put the dressing in the bird, and it isn't dry because it gets lots of moisture from the turkey stock it's made with.


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## Luvs2Cook (Nov 20, 2008)

I Have always stuffed my turkeys, (& roast chickens) and have never had them dry out because of that.   For my stuffing I saute the gizzards, onion, celery & seasonings  and then add that mix to the stale bread, 1 egg and I add milk until it come to the consistency I like.  As for the injecting, I have not injected my turkeys but do this w/ my roast chickens, hams and it really does make a difference.   
For my rub:  I softened butter and then add seasonings of : Thyme, sage, garlic powder, little rosemary and paprika and rub the turkey w/ that.  Always turns out yummy.


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## Constance (Nov 20, 2008)

Brining the turkey really does help keep it moist. I highly recommend it, and Alton Brown's method is what we use, too.

My family always cooked the dressing separately, and I prefer it that way because I like a nice, crisp crust on the outside, and moist, juicy dressing inside.

My husband injects the turkey when he deep fries it, sometimes with a cajun seasoning mix and sometimes with a simple herb mix.


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## GB (Nov 20, 2008)

Stuffing a bird will not make it dry out. Cooking the bird and stuffing to a safe temp will make it dry out. homecook has a good technique she uses to make sure the bird does not dry out and the stuffing is cooked to a safe temp. If you just stuff the bird and cook it all together from cold then the turkey will be overcooked by the time the stuffing gets up to a safe temp.


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## GB (Nov 20, 2008)

Adillo303 said:


> How you do this brining thing? I googled, I really did, I got a whole host of vastly different ways to do it. Suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> Thank You
> 
> AC



Brining basically (in the most basic way) is soaking the bird in a saltwater solution. The tough thing about doing this with a turkey is space. You need to make sure the water the turkey is soaking in is below 40 degrees. If you have a big enough and empty enough fridge then it is easy. Short of that you might need to use a big empty cooler with ice.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Nov 20, 2008)

Adillo303 said:


> I plan on tackeling a 14 - 16 # fresh turkey for Thanksgiving. My daughter and I am co-cooking Thanksgiving dinner. Since we both like to cook it can be a lot of fun. DW may get involved, time will tell. Both my daughter (Paula) and I like ot cook. Our families have widely divergant tastes which can lead to interesting times.
> 
> Inyway. I ordered "The Bird" and should pick it up Sunday. I am considering injeccting the turkey to enhance flavor and moistness. My quwstions are:
> 1) Is this a dumb idea?
> ...



The recipe that Andy uses, and the technique will give you a great turkey.  But it's not the only one.  In answer to your questions, injected turkeys come out great.  The reason for injecting liquid into the bird is to enhance the meat flavor, as plain turkey meat is somewhat bland.  

For the injecting liquid, I make a Turkey broth from the neck, livers, and giblets taken from the turkey.  I add 1 sliced carrot and 1 sliced yellow onion to the pot and boil them and the turkey parts in about 3 cups of water for about an hour.  Season the broth with salt, pepper, and sage to taste.  Strain and reserve the meat for adding the the stuffing (optional).  Let cool a it before using it to inject the bird.

Inject the bird in several places in both breasts, and in the thighs and drumsticks.  Use the leftover broth to moisten the stuffing mixture.  In this way, you still get the great turkey flavor in the stuffing/dressing whether you cook it in the bird or in a casserole dish.

For the bird, after injecting, let it sit for about 20 minutes to allow the liquid to distribute itself in the meat.  While this is going on, preheat the oven to 450' F.  Lightly salt the cavity and rub the skin with butter or oil and lightly salt the skin.  Fill the cavity either with stuffing or sliced onion and celery.  Place a meat thermometer into the thickest part of the breast, pushing the tip cose to the leg/body joint.  Don't let it touch the bone.  

Place the turkey on a rack and in a shallow roasting pan.  Place in the oven  and roast for 15 minutes.  Turn the oven down to 350 and leave it alone.  Figure 13 minutes per pound to get you in the ballpark.  Check the thermometer.  Remove the turkey when the thermometer reads 155' F.   Let rest for 15 to 20 minutes before carving.  Check the temperature of the stuffing, if it's in the bird cavity.  If it doesn't read 165' F. remove and place it into a microwave save dish.  Nuke it for 5 minutes or so to bring it up to temperature.

This will give you great flavor both in the bird, and the stuffing.  And the turkey will be supremely moist and tender.  Don't carve the meat directly from the bird.  Rather, remove the breasts whole from the carcass.  Do the same with the legs, and wings.  Slice the breast meat against the grain into slices and arrange on a platter along with the thighs, drumsticks, wings, and a bit of something green, like kale or parsley to add color.  Serve.

I have tried a good number of techniques for cooking turkeys.  I have found that the most important aspect of the process is to remove the turkey when the meat reaches 155' F.  Let it sit and latent heat from the hotter outside will penetrate deep into the meat, bringing the final temp up to 165' after about 15 minutes or so.  Any meat taken above 165 begins to become tough and dry.  As stated before, the brining, or injecting is used to add extra flavor to the meat.

Have a great Thanksgiving Day.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed o fthe North


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## *amy* (Nov 20, 2008)

I always prepare a turkey the old-fashioned way - no injections, brining, deep frying etc.  I make my dressing on the side, because I like lots & lots of dressing.  If you want a poultry taste, you can use poultry seasoning  - depends on the recipe.  My fave is oyster dressing.  You could start a thread about fave stuffing/dressing recipes - re "what am I missing". Re injecting the turkey - I have seen liquid and solid injecters (from Ron Popeill ((sp)).  You can inject butter/liquids, or solids like pesto, sun-dried tomatoes, garlic etc. - depends on what kind of injecter you have.  Guessing you just want a juicy bird.  I usually buy a Butterball, & keep basting, basting, basting.  Back to injecting the bird, recently ordered 3 turkey breasts injected with 3 different flavors from QVC - Cajun (but not spicy) one with butter & garlic & two other flavors.  Will let you know how they turn out, & if the taste is any juicier. In short, I keep it simple - no injections etc., & always have a juicy/moist delicious bird.


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## homecook (Nov 20, 2008)

The other thing I should probably mention. I don't use eggs in my stuffing so letting it sit out to get to room temp isn't a problem with raw eggs. It's just bread, sauted onions and celery, turkey broth and poultry seasoning. Simple but good.

Barb


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## ChefJune (Nov 20, 2008)

homecook said:


> The other thing I should probably mention. I don't use eggs in my stuffing so letting it sit out to get to room temp isn't a problem with raw eggs. It's just bread, sauted onions and celery, turkey broth and poultry seasoning. Simple but good.
> 
> Barb


 
If you are concerned about safety, bacteria can still grow in it sitting out.  Just so you know. It's not only the eggs.


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## jennyema (Nov 20, 2008)

*amy* said:


> IIf you want a poultry taste, you can use poultry seasoning - depends on the recipe. .


 
Poultry seasoning doesn't make the stuffing taste like poultry though.  I make my stuffing with unsalted turkey broth, which gives it a great turkey flavor.


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## west coast smoker (Nov 20, 2008)

*one more cook for the soup*


Looks like there is a million ideas on this so I will add my turkey to the conversation.  I do the brining, using an ice chest left outside in the shed overnight.  Then I stuff the bird, old family recipe that is cooked before stuffing.  Then I fire up my Weber and cook it indirectly.  I have found that covering the turkey with cheesecloth and keeping that moist with a white wine/butter concoction helps to keep the skin from turning black and the breast moist.  For the  last 40 minutes or so take the cheesecloth off and let the skin brown.  YUMMY, my wife won''t even let me cook one in the oven anymore.


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## paddfoot (Nov 20, 2008)

homecook said:


> I have to disagree with this. I've been stuffing my turkeys for many, many years and my mother and grandmother before me and my turkey does not dry out. The breast meat is always juicy. I make up my stuffing the night before and don't stuff it until right before I put it in the oven. There is nothing in my stuffing to deem it unsafe. Putting the stuffing in the turkey does give it a better flavor than just putting it in a casserole. I always have some leftover that I just bake and it does lack the turkey flavor. My turkeys are usually 20 to 24 pounders.
> 
> Barb



ok, i'll sacrifice the aded turkey flavor (which i will get from the TURKEY and lessen my chances of sending my consumers to the JOHN for the next 48 hours, 

finesse is nothing more than science not understood.


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## homecook (Nov 21, 2008)

paddfoot said:


> ok, i'll sacrifice the aded turkey flavor (which i will get from the TURKEY and lessen my chances of sending my consumers to the JOHN for the next 48 hours,
> 
> finesse is nothing more than science not understood.



To each his own.....I've never sent anyone to the JOHN after my turkey dinners and I've been doing it well over 20 years! Do what you want.

Barb


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## GB (Nov 21, 2008)

homecook said:


> To each his own.....I've never sent anyone to the JOHN after my turkey dinners and I've been doing it well over 20 years! Do what you want.
> 
> Barb


Not to belabor the point, but how do you know? Do your guests tell you when they go to the John? They could be affected up to 72 hours after eating. Are they telling you 3 days later what their bathroom habits are?

I am not trying to be a jerk. I am just trying to point out that we do not always know if our cooking habits are negatively affecting people. The only way to really know if someone got food poisoning is for a doctor to do a blood test. Short of that, we are all just guessing.

Edited to add: I am not saying you have ever made anyone sick. It is very possible and even very probable that you have not. I am just saying that none of us can really know that for sure without a blood test.


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## Laury (Nov 21, 2008)

Although I haven't seen this subject discussed, but I HATE the practice of injecting a salt solution into meats and poultry. It changes the whole character of the meat and takes away my control of how much salt there is in the drippings. I much prefer to have the meat flavor in its natural state.  I find this in pork roasts and turkey and in store roasted rotisserie chickens.  I have not tried brining and probably won't.  My turkeys, stuffed and unstuffed have all turned out moist and flavorful. AND the drippings make wonderful gravy, which is food of the gods!


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## Robo410 (Nov 21, 2008)

I haven't cooked anything but a fresh bird for years. Recently got into the free range thing and won't go back to caged critters...the taste is quite different. 

Brining is great, but so is dry seasoning the day before. Injecting should also work fine. An herb butter or broth would be nice.

Your stuffing creation is your imagination and your likes. Some like fruit like apples in their stuffing. Sausage is great. I add leftover wild rice and chopped pecans, and also do an oyster one for those of us who like it.

I always stuffed the bird until last year. My stuffing was fine baked in a caserole, and my bird was awesome (cavity filled with onion garlic celerey etc).. you can cook the turkey a little less when unstuffed (it comes to safe temp more quickly and you don't have to wait for the middle of the stuffing to get there.) 

Anyway...sounds like you got good ideas there so enjoy the day and the feast!


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## jennyema (Nov 21, 2008)

Laury said:


> Although I haven't seen this subject discussed, but I HATE the practice of injecting a salt solution into meats and poultry. It changes the whole character of the meat and takes away my control of how much salt there is in the drippings. I much prefer to have the meat flavor in its natural state. I find this in pork roasts and turkey and in store roasted rotisserie chickens. I have not tried brining and probably won't. My turkeys, stuffed and unstuffed have all turned out moist and flavorful. AND the drippings make wonderful gravy, which is food of the gods!


 
I don't like it either.  But if you check the labels, you can choose meats that haven't had sodium added.

I always brine my Thanksgiving turkeys.  Brined turkeys give you great gravy, too.


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## PieSusan (Nov 21, 2008)

I am extremely concerned about food safety as well but this thread seems to be getting a bit heated for my taste. I have even had food poisoning after eating over at someone's house so you don't have to tell me about proper prepping and cooking techniques. However, even Alton Brown has changed his mind about stuffing a bird. Stuffing is no longer evil.

And by the way, what is called "brining" is nothing more than what is done during the koshering process unless you are adding aromatics and other flavorings. In fact, Shirley O'Corriher explains the science of osmosis. 

However you choose to make you Thanksgiving turkey, let's not forget what the holiday is truly about. May you have more blessings than you can count and close friends and family to share the day with.


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## jennyema (Nov 21, 2008)

PieSusan said:


> I am extremely concerned about food safety as well but this thread seems to be getting a bit heated for my taste. I have even had food poisoning after eating over at someone's house so you don't have to tell me about proper prepping and cooking techniques. However, even Alton Brown has changed his mind about stuffing a bird. Stuffing is no longer evil.
> 
> And by the way, what is called "brining" is nothing more than what is done during the koshering process unless you are adding aromatics and other flavorings. In fact, Shirley O'Corriher explains the science of osmosis.
> 
> However you choose to make you Thanksgiving turkey, let's not forget what the holiday is truly about. May you have more blessings than you can count and close friends and family to share the day with.


 

Stuffing a turkey is perfectly safe as long as you cook the stuffing to a temp of 165.  If the stuffing doesn't reach that temperature, it's a potential source of food poisoning.

Depending on how you stuff the turkey and what you stuff it with, it sometimes takes longer to get the stuffing to 165 than it takes to fully cook the breast meat.  This can result in an overcooked bird.  What many people do is take the turkey out when its done, remove the stuffing and put it back in the oven to fully cook.

Brining a turkey is a different than koshering, as the bird stays in the brine for a lot longer than it does in the koshering process.

Corriher, McGee and other food scientists who have studied brining suggest that it involves a process much more complex than osmosis.  The process draws in moisture, holds it in the cells and relaxes the protein strands.

IMO it's a great way to ensure a juicy, flavorful bird.


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## homecook (Nov 21, 2008)

GB said:


> Not to belabor the point, but how do you know? Do your guests tell you when they go to the John? They could be affected up to 72 hours after eating. Are they telling you 3 days later what their bathroom habits are?
> 
> I am not trying to be a jerk. I am just trying to point out that we do not always know if our cooking habits are negatively affecting people. The only way to really know if someone got food poisoning is for a doctor to do a blood test. Short of that, we are all just guessing.
> 
> Edited to add: I am not saying you have ever made anyone sick. It is very possible and even very probable that you have not. I am just saying that none of us can really know that for sure without a blood test.



GB, I understand exactly what you're saying and I appreciate the comments.
 No I don't ask my friends or family 3 days later if they happened to get sick after eating at my house. But, if anyone did get sick I know my family and friends well enough that they would have called me to ask if any one else had gotten sick because they themselves must have "picked up something". Thinking it was the flu or something. That has never happened. I'm not saying it couldn't but to date it hasn't. My mom has a compromised immune system so I know I have to really watch things. 
I don't want to belabor the point either............some people stuff and some don't. lol It's your choice. I'm not taking your comments lightly.

Barb


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## DramaQueen (Nov 21, 2008)

GB said:


> Not to belabor the point, but how do you know? Do your guests tell you when they go to the John? They could be affected up to 72 hours after eating. Are they telling you 3 days later what their bathroom habits are?
> 
> I am not trying to be a jerk. I am just trying to point out that we do not always know if our cooking habits are negatively affecting people. The only way to really know if someone got food poisoning is for a doctor to do a blood test. Short of that, we are all just guessing.
> 
> Edited to add: I am not saying you have ever made anyone sick. It is very possible and even very probable that you have not. I am just saying that none of us can really know that for sure without a blood test.


 
*I have to agree with everything you said here. With the tons of food presented at anyone's Thanksgiving table, it would be difficult to pinpoint what exactly made someone, or everyone sick. Food poisoning comes in varying degrees, some severe, some cases very light, but very few people will tell you thier bathroom habits and yes, it takes up to 72 hours for symptoms to appear.*


*On the up side to this, my mother in law, back in the 40's 50's, 60s and 70's stuffed her turkey with meat stuffing, THE DAY BEFORE,  SO THE WORK WOULD BE DONE BY THKGVG MORnING WHEN SHE PUT THE TURKEY IN THE ROASTER.   SHE PUT THE TURKEY ON HER SUNPORCH OVER NIGHT. Now granted in Michigan the sunporch IS cool, but the temp never got below 50 degrees because it was totally enclosed with glass. I don't know how we didn't all die but we survived. No one would do such a thing today. AND I have to admit that even with a ton of stuffing in her 22-25 lb. birds they all came out juicy.*


*She made a lot of stuffing because we all loved it so much, and she would wrap the extra in a clean piece of bedsheet (she bought one just for this purpose thank you  ) and layed the bundle next to the turkey in the roaster so it would soak up the juices. *


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## SunnyFL (Nov 21, 2008)

*Frozen turkey?*

I plan on making about a 12-14 turkey and am wondering -- if I buy one frozen solid how long does it take to thaw in the refrigerator.  I mean, today is Friday, if I buy one over the weekend and put it in the refrig -- will it be okay to cook on Thanksgiving Day?  I know it will be thawed out by then, but will it still be good?  The last few years I've picked up a "fresh" turkey from a local market, but am getting a frozen one this year.

Thanks!


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## Laury (Nov 21, 2008)

Oh yes, it will be just fine.  I've done it that way many times and it will be delicious. It takes a good couple or three days for it to thaw, so it won't be sitting there completely thawed for very long at all.


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## DramaQueen (Nov 21, 2008)

SunnyFL said:


> I plan on making about a 12-14 turkey and am wondering -- if I buy one frozen solid how long does it take to thaw in the refrigerator. I mean, today is Friday, if I buy one over the weekend and put it in the refrig -- will it be okay to cook on Thanksgiving Day? I know it will be thawed out by then, but will it still be good? The last few years I've picked up a "fresh" turkey from a local market, but am getting a frozen one this year.
> 
> Thanks!


 
*I've always bought 2   12 lb. turkeys and it always took 5 days to defrost.  There were still ice crystals deep inside on T'giving Day.  This year I bought a 22 lb.  (it was only 6.00 and I couldn't pass up the bargain).  I put it in my fridge last night and I'll be lucky if it's completely thawed by next Thursday.  Give it enough time.  My fridge is set at 38 degrees.*


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## paddfoot (Nov 21, 2008)

GB said:


> Not to belabor the point, but how do you know? Do your guests tell you when they go to the John? They could be affected up to 72 hours after eating. Are they telling you 3 days later what their bathroom habits are?
> 
> I am not trying to be a jerk. I am just trying to point out that we do not always know if our cooking habits are negatively affecting people. The only way to really know if someone got food poisoning is for a doctor to do a blood test. Short of that, we are all just guessing.
> 
> Edited to add: I am not saying you have ever made anyone sick. It is very possible and even very probable that you have not. I am just saying that none of us can really know that for sure without a blood test.



good point


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## deelady (Nov 21, 2008)

I grew up with my parents always stuffing our turkey before putting it into the oven, but since I have been doing my own Thanksgivings (a mere 14 yrs...a babe I know!) I prefer to make my stuffing and keep in seperate and stuff my turkey with aromatics instead i.e. onion or shallots, fresh herbs, a lemon, sometimes an apple and seasoning as well as placing the turkey on a bed of root veggies to help with aromatics and flavoring the gravey. I can honestly say my turkeys have ALWAYS turned out much more moist than my family's and I always asumed it was as was said before due to the stuffing drawing out the juices and adding to the cooking time! My turkeys always only cook aprox 3 4 hrs the most depending on weight but I remember my parents cooking theirs for at least 6 hrs!! Yeah, they were pretty dry....the turkeys as well as my parents! 

Last year I made a Miso Rubbed turkey for the first time and it was wonderful...super moist! Have recipe if anyone is interested!


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## deelady (Nov 21, 2008)

DramaQueen said:


> *I've always bought 2 12 lb. turkeys and it always took 5 days to defrost. There were still ice crystals deep inside on T'giving Day. This year I bought a 22 lb. (it was only 6.00 and I couldn't pass up the bargain). I put it in my fridge last night and I'll be lucky if it's completely thawed by next Thursday. Give it enough time. My fridge is set at 38 degrees.*


 

I saw a wonderful tip the other day from Alton Brown on quickly thawing a turkey (about 4 hrs) by placing it in a bucket and allowing cold water from a tub or sink to SLOWLY trickle onto the bird....I forgot the term he used but the slow trickle creates some sort of reaction causing it to thaw faster.


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## GB (Nov 21, 2008)

You don't even need the trickle. Thawing in cold water is the quickest safest way to thaw food aside from microwaving which can give undesirable results.


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## Michelemarie (Nov 22, 2008)

Andy M. said:


> I use this recipe for the turkey and make my own stuffing in a pan.  It always produces a terrific turkey.  Juicy and delicious.
> 
> You can add turkey flavor to the stuffing by using turkey broth when making the stuffing.
> 
> Injecting can add great flavors too.  I wouldn't do both injecting and brining.



I think I am going to try this brine this year - I have one question - the recipe says to brine for 6 hours -- last year I brined over night - I really don't want to get up at the crack of dawn and I really don't want to stay up too late the night before - has anyone used this recipe and left the bird in longer than 6 hours?


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## GB (Nov 22, 2008)

You can brine it and then drain the brine after 6 hours. Brine it a few days ahead then just store it dry in the fridge.


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## Michelemarie (Nov 22, 2008)

Thanks so much! I'll do just that!


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## DramaQueen (Nov 22, 2008)

gb said:


> you can brine it and then drain the brine after 6 hours. Brine it a few days ahead then just store it dry in the fridge.


 

*perfect!*


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## DramaQueen (Nov 22, 2008)

deelady said:


> I saw a wonderful tip the other day from Alton Brown on quickly thawing a turkey (about 4 hrs) by placing it in a bucket and allowing cold water from a tub or sink to SLOWLY trickle onto the bird....I forgot the term he used but the slow trickle creates some sort of reaction causing it to thaw faster.


 
*Are you saying to trickle water from the faucet for 4 hours?  Is he kidding?  That's a lot of wasted water.  *
*Did I read that right?*


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## QSis (Nov 22, 2008)

I stuff my bird, but always have some extra stuffing.  I don't like the stuffing outside of the bird nearly as well, so I plop a few chicken wings on top of the stuffing in the casserole dish and let them bake along till done.  Has a similar effect as having cooked the stuffing in the bird.

Lee


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## Adillo303 (Nov 25, 2008)

I am seeing quate a variance in cooking times for turkeys.

I have an almost 15# bird. I paln on cooking the giblets separately and pureeing them to put in the stuffing and sook the stuffing out of the bird. I am planning on bringing the bird like this:

*Apple Spice Brine*
A brine is typically water and salt with a little sweet to give it flavor. This brine uses fruit juices for water providing flavor and sweet at the same time. 
*Prep Time: 15 minutes*
*Cook Time: 15 minutes*
*Ingredients:*
·1 gallon cold water 
·2 quarts apple juice 
·2 quarts orange juice 
·2 cup salt (3 cups Kosher or coarse salt) 
·1/2 cup brown sugar 
·10 whole cloves 
·1 tablespoon ground nutmeg
*Preparation:*
Pour apple and orange juice into a large pot over a medium heat. Add salt, brown sugar, cloves and nutmeg. Simmer for 15 minutes until salt and sugar are completely dissolved. Remove from heat and allow to cool. Add cold water. 
Place poultry in a large plastic container. Pour brine over top. Brine poultry for 1 hour per pound in the refrigerator





I am curious how long to cook and at what temp the folks here would suggest. I have seen as low as 13 min per pouind and as long as 5 1/2 hours. I have seen differences of only half an hour for stuffed vs not stuffed. Oh yeah! I have seen suggestions to put the thermometer in the breast and theigh. The thermometer will tell the final story, but, I am loking for some guidelines as to how long to expect.

Thank You in advance - AC


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## dave the baker (Nov 25, 2008)

There was a question the other day about brining "premium" birds, and one participant said that the "premium" ones such as Butterball have been pre-brined.  I have a recipe from Butterball for brining their birds, if anyone would like it.  I'm not trying to start anything, just providing information I have discovered.

The brine I use is simple - Kosher salt, brown sugar, garlic and thyme.   Overnight does the job for me and it always turns out good.  One can also add apple juice for an additional flavor level if desired.


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## Uncle Bob (Nov 25, 2008)

Dave the baker said:
			
		

> There was a question the other day about brining "premium" birds, and one participant said that the "premium" ones such as Butterball have been pre-brined. I have a recipe from Butterball for brining their birds, if anyone would like it. I'm not trying to start anything, just providing information I have discovered.


 
Please share your discovery!!!


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## jennyema (Nov 25, 2008)

dave the baker said:


> There was a question the other day about brining "premium" birds, and one participant said that the "premium" ones such as Butterball have been pre-brined. I have a recipe from Butterball for brining their birds, if anyone would like it. I'm not trying to start anything, just providing information I have discovered.
> 
> The brine I use is simple - Kosher salt, brown sugar, garlic and thyme. Overnight does the job for me and it always turns out good. One can also add apple juice for an additional flavor level if desired.


 

I wouldn't call Butterball a "premium" turkey. 

*Frozen* Butterballs have been injected with sodium.

*Fresh* ones have not.

Read the label carefully.  The label is pretty clear which ones have been juiced up already.


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## Uncle Bob (Nov 25, 2008)

dave the baker said:
			
		

> I have a recipe from Butterball for brining their birds,


 
If it's from their web site it's a recipe for their FRESH turkeys --- not the frozen, pre-basted/injected products --- Butterball does not recommend "brining" those. 

Like Miss Jenny said...read the label -- on ALL brands I might add!

Enjoy!


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## blissful (Nov 25, 2008)

QSis said:


> I stuff my bird, but always have some extra stuffing. I don't like the stuffing outside of the bird nearly as well, so I plop a few chicken wings on top of the stuffing in the casserole dish and let them bake along till done. Has a similar effect as having cooked the stuffing in the bird.
> 
> Lee


This is a good idea!

I know I'll have extra stuffing and I really like the idea of making stuffing balls too--so they get crispy on the outside, moist inside.


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## dave the baker (Nov 25, 2008)

I stand corrected.  The brining recipe does indeed say fresh.  I reiterate, I have never had unfavorable results using frozen fowl.  Perhaps the ones I have done were not injected??????????  What would constitute a "premium" turkey, Jennyema?  Sorry about the delay in answering; I've been extremely busy today both in the workshop and the kitchen.


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