# Recipe sharing etiquette



## giggler

I received a hand written recipe from a dear freind at work. It is old and in cursive.. I have a few questions about this, but my freind at work  does not talk much about such things..

Should I ask Permission to share it here? or just post the crazy thing, and figure, Well he gave it to me.. so all's fair in love and war and recipe sharing? It is a very odd, old family recipe I think..

Eric, Austin Tx.


----------



## Dawgluver

Sure.  I would just snap a picture of the recipe and post it.

We can't plagiarize stuff directly out of cookbooks or off websites, but we can post links, or lists of ingredients.


----------



## GotGarlic

Are you sure about that, Dawg? A recipe doesn’t have to be from a cookbook or a website to be copyrighted. It just has to be written down.


----------



## jennyema

You need to ask permission to share it


----------



## LizStreithorst

I'd be polite and ask permission.


----------



## GotGarlic

LizStreithorst said:


> I'd be polite and ask permission.



It's not just polite; it's legally required.


----------



## Andy M.

The recipe is not copyrighted. Once she gives it away, it's yours
to do with as you like. As a courtesy to your friend, you should ask her if it's OK to share it.


----------



## GotGarlic

Andy M. said:


> The recipe is not copyrighted. Once she gives it away, it's yours
> to do with as you like. As a courtesy to your friend, you should ask her if it's OK to share it.



It's my understanding that a recipe, or any other creative work, is copyrighted as soon as it is created. It doesn't have to be registered or published first and giving a copy to someone doesn't change the ownership.


----------



## LizStreithorst

GotGarlic said:


> It's not just polite; it's legally required.



I say that doing the right thing is more important that whether it is legal or not.
She should ask permission.  Would you want something that was shared with you plastered all over the internet without granting permission.  The fact that it's just a recipe is beside the point.


----------



## Kaneohegirlinaz

Here's what I've read from copyright.gov

"_Copyright law does not protect recipes that are mere listings of ingredients. Nor does it protect other mere listings of ingredients such as those found in formulas, compounds, or prescriptions. Copyright protection may, however, extend to substantial literary expression—a description, explanation, or illustration, for example—that accompanies a recipe or formula or to a combination of recipes, as in a cookbook.

Only original works of authorship are protected by copyright. “Original” means that an author produced a work by his or her own intellectual effort instead of copying it from an existing work.

For further information about copyright, see Circular 1, Copyright Basics. Note that if your recipe has secret ingredients that you do not want to reveal, you may not want to submit it for registration, because applications and deposit copies are public records.

Deposit requirements depend on whether a work has been published at the time of registration:

If the work is unpublished, one complete copy
If the work was first published in the United States on or after January 1, 1978, two complete copies of the best edition
If the work was first published outside the United States, one complete copy of the work as first published
If the work is a contribution to a collective work and was published after January 1, 1978, one complete copy of the best edition of the collective work or a photocopy of the contribution itself as it was published in the collective work


FL-122, Reviewed December 2011_"

Further, I've found 

"_One should distinguish between a recipe, a textual rendering of a recipe, and a compilation of recipes. Publications Intl. v. Meredith, 88 F.3d 473 (7th Cir. 1996) dealt with alleged infringement of a recipe book.

“The identification of ingredients necessary for the preparation of each dish is a statement of facts. There is no expressive element in each listing; in other words, the author who wrote down the ingredients for “Curried Turkey and Peanut Salad” was not giving literary expression to his individual creative labors. Instead, he was writing down an idea, namely, the ingredients necessary to the preparation of a particular dish. “[N]o author may copyright facts or ideas. The copyright is limited to those aspects of the work–termed ‘expression’–that display the stamp of the author’s originality.” Harper & Row, 471 U.S. at 547, 105 S.Ct. at 2223. We do not view the functional listing of ingredients as original within the meaning of the Copyright Act.

As the Supreme Court stated in Feist: Facts, whether alone or as part of a compilation, are not original and therefore may not be copyrighted. A factual compilation is eligible for copyright if it features an original selection or arrangement of facts, but the copyright is limited to the particular selection or arrangement. In no event may copyrights extend to the facts themselves. Feist, 499 U.S. at 350-51, 111 S.Ct. at 1290._"

Has your friends recipe been published? No? Then it's fair game.

I can say to you that I have such a recipe, handwritten on a lovely recipe card, and I have been sworn to secrecy; that I should never tell anyone else how I've made it... basically, for my eyes only!  And I've kept it that way for, oh, over 40 years now and it's one of my most requested cakes.

So, in closing giggler aka Eric in Austin, it's always nice to ask the individual how has given you a recipe if it's okay to share that said handwritten recipe with the Internet world or not.


----------



## PrincessFiona60

We are not Copyright Lawyers, Discuss Cooking has rules for posting recipes and this is what we will abide by.  Just because something is on the Internet does not make it fair game.

From our Community Rules:
*Posting standards* 




NO SPAM! Our user base is not a resource to be "mined" by     individuals, groups, or businesses, for profit or not for profit.     Participants may not post affiliate  links  or links to direct others to any pages at their own commercial  website  or website in which they have a commercial interest.
Do  not use posts to promote your blog, videos, surveys or contests.   You  may  place a single link in your signature to a noncommercial  blog.
Forum members should use the standard fonts available on the forum.  The   standard font size is 2. The use of bold, large or colored fonts  should   be used sparingly. Posts containing inappropriate formatting  will be   removed or modified at our discretion; e.g. all caps or  excessive color.
E-mail and web address are not appropriate forum user names.
Posts should be well formatted. Use paragraphs, punctuation, and    capital letters appropriately. Netspeak, LOL speak (internet slang) and    texting shortcuts (b4, str8, etc) are difficult to read and may be    edited or posts removed.
The language of this forum is English. If you are not a native  English    speaker, do your best. We are glad to have you as a member  and will be    supportive and polite.
Do not post protected or copyrighted material*.* Information     copyrighted or owned by any individual or entity other than  the member     should not be posted on the discussion forums without the  consent  of    the owner. If such an event occurs, the individual  posting the     information shall be held solely responsible. You cannot  legally post     entire articles or news in the forum without permission  from the     copyright holder. Even if you attribute the article correctly  it’s     still copyright infringement. Under Fair Use provisions you can  legally     post a small abstract of an article - or perhaps the opening      paragraph. The exception to this rule is press releases; they are meant      for distribution and can be copied and distributed. If you are not    sure   if you can copy something then always err on the side of caution    and   simply post a link to the material.
*How to Post a Recipe
*You cannot legally post an entire recipe  written or published by   another. Ingredient lists are fine to copy word  for word, but methods   written by another cannot be reproduced here.


----------



## GotGarlic

LizStreithorst said:


> I say that doing the right thing is more important that whether it is legal or not.
> She should ask permission.  Would you want something that was shared with you plastered all over the internet without granting permission.  The fact that it's just a recipe is beside the point.



It's both. btw, the OP is a he


----------



## GotGarlic

Kaneohegirlinaz said:


> Here's what I've read from copyright.gov
> 
> "_Copyright law does not protect recipes that are mere listings of ingredients. Nor does it protect other mere listings of ingredients such as those found in formulas, compounds, or prescriptions. *Copyright protection may, however, extend to substantial literary expression—a description, explanation, or illustration, for example—that accompanies a recipe* or formula or to a combination of recipes, as in a cookbook.
> 
> *Only original works of authorship are protected by copyright. *“Original” means that an author produced a work by his or her own intellectual effort instead of copying it from an existing work._



The bolded areas are key points.



Kaneohegirlinaz said:


> _For further information about copyright, see Circular 1, Copyright Basics. Note that if your recipe has secret ingredients that you do not want to reveal, you may not want to submit it for registration, because applications and deposit copies are public records.
> 
> Deposit requirements depend on whether a work has been published at the time of registration:
> 
> If the work is unpublished, one complete copy
> If the work was first published in the United States on or after January 1, 1978, two complete copies of the best edition
> If the work was first published outside the United States, one complete copy of the work as first published
> If the work is a contribution to a collective work and was published after January 1, 1978, one complete copy of the best edition of the collective work or a photocopy of the contribution itself as it was published in the collective work
> 
> FL-122, Reviewed December 2011_"



This section is about registering a copyright, not whether something is copyrighted. You don't have to register a copyright on a creative work in order to own it.



Kaneohegirlinaz said:


> Further, I've found
> ...
> 
> Has your friends recipe been published? No? Then it's fair game.
> 
> I can say to you that I have such a recipe, handwritten on a lovely recipe card, and I have been sworn to secrecy; that I should never tell anyone else how I've made it... basically, for my eyes only!  And I've kept it that way for, oh, over 40 years now and it's one of my most requested cakes.
> 
> So, in closing giggler aka Eric in Austin, it's always nice to ask the individual how has given you a recipe if it's okay to share that said handwritten recipe with the Internet world or not.



As was stated earlier, the list of ingredients cannot be copyrighted; however, the method, or description of how to make the dish, can be copyrighted, and the way copyright works means that once the recipe is written down in fixed form - doesn't have to be on a computer or in a book - it's automatically copyrighted.

Registering a copyright makes it easier to defend your ownership in court, but it's not required to establish ownership.

We had a long discussion about this last year: http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f17/at-what-point-can-you-claim-a-recipe-as-your-own-91948.html

And in 2013: http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f29/copying-recipes-87034-6.html

It comes up every few years


----------



## Andy M.

We don't actually know if the recipe in question is giggler's friend's original recipe.  Just that it was handwritten and old.  It may have come from a neighbor, grandparent or flea market.


----------



## GotGarlic

Andy M. said:


> We don't actually know if the recipe in question is giggler's friend's original recipe.  Just that it was handwritten and old.  It may have come from a neighbor, grandparent or flea market.



Right. What we do know is that someone wrote it down, so someone owns the copyright, and it's not giggler. 
That doesn't mean he can't ask for clarification on its contents, though. He would just need to quote part of it, or rewrite it in his own words.


----------



## Andy M.

GotGarlic said:


> Right. What we do know is that someone wrote it down, so someone owns the copyright, and it's not giggler.
> That doesn't mean he can't ask for clarification on its contents, though. He would just need to quote part of it, or rewrite it in his own words.



If the creator of that recipe is long gone and unknown, there is no reasonable means establish a copyright.  I think all that's needed is a courtesy request to his work friend.


----------



## GotGarlic

Andy M. said:


> If the creator of that recipe is long gone and unknown, there is no reasonable means establish a copyright.  I think all that's needed is a courtesy request to his work friend.



That's possible, too. It's up to him and the mods


----------



## jennyema

GotGarlic said:


> It's my understanding that a recipe, or any other creative work, is copyrighted as soon as it is created. It doesn't have to be registered or published first and giving a copy to someone doesn't change the ownership.




You are right about this and all your other comments.


Copyright is created in a work once it is fixed into a tangible medium of expression. It does not have to be published, registered or marked with a c


The recipe in question may or may not be "copyrightable" -- it depends on whether the prose accompanying the list of ingredients is a substantial original expression.  But that would be up to a court to decide in an infringement lawsuit.

We don't know if the creator of the recipe is claiming a copyright.  But we do know that it is not the OP's recipe.  And because of that, a website like DC should not republish it without the creator's permission.


----------



## giggler

*shrimp etoufe*

I will see my dear friend at work tommarow, I will definately ask his permision to post his family recipe or not.




1
My guess is  he will get a big laugh oUt of all this, but THANK YOU y'all so much because I felt a bit strange about all this.
WHAT A great list this is..

Eric, Austin Tx.

PS, a Teaser here ..what the heck is Oleo? 2 cps.?.


----------



## Dawgluver

Oleo margarine.  Sort of a butter substitute.


----------



## LizStreithorst

I just realized that there are two conversations going on here.  One is about legal responsibility, the other is about moral responsibility.

The OP wasn't asking whether or not it was legal for him to post the recipe, was he?  Admin posted the rules of the forum in post #11.  Legal or not, on this forum this is the rule, "You cannot legally post an entire recipe written or published by another." End of story.


----------



## blissful

I agree with all the copyright hoo haa stuff, completely, but isn't it just a shame that our conversation goes right to the legalities instead of just the courtesies in life?
What did you do today that wouldn't get you in legal trouble anymore?

All you really have to do is consider how you yourself would feel about someone using your recipe, and then do that for your friend. Can I use your recipe on a forum on the internet where I converse with my foodie friends? "sure" would be the answer, or even, "you really didn't need to ask", but the important part is that you did ask.


----------



## LizStreithorst

Lol.  I was afraid that you had gotten disgusted with all the copyright law rants and had taken your recipe and gone home ,).  I'm glad you found it amusing.  I bet your friend will get a kick out of it as well.

Unless the recipe is for a cake I will make it in your friend's honor.



giggler said:


> I will see my dear friend at work tomorrow, I will definitely ask his permission to post his family recipe or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1
> My guess is  he will get a big laugh oUt of all this, but THANK YOU y'all so much because I felt a bit strange about all this.
> WHAT A great list this is..
> 
> Eric, Austin Tx.
> 
> PS, a Teaser here ..what the heck is Oleo? 2 cps.?.


----------



## Andy M.

2 cups of margarine.


----------



## GotGarlic

LizStreithorst said:


> I just realized that there are two conversations going on here.  One is about legal responsibility, the other is about moral responsibility.
> 
> The OP wasn't asking whether or not it was legal for him to post the recipe, was he?  Admin posted the rules of the forum in post #11.  Legal or not, on this forum this is the rule, "You cannot legally post an entire recipe written or published by another." End of story.



I wouldn't say there are two separate conversations going on. I'd say there is more than one facet to this topic. That's pretty common, in my experience  

He asked if he should ask his friend's permission before posting the recipe. I don't see any problem with educating people about the legal issues around posting things on the internet. 

Before the internet made it so easy to post and repost other people's work, copyright law wasn't widely known, and most people had no knowledge of it. And that was fine, because it was difficult and expensive to reproduce and make money from someone else's work. Posting on the internet is very different from talking to someone over a cup of coffee in their kitchen.


----------



## salt and pepper

Whom ever gave it to you, gave it to you! I would ask if they would mind if you shared it.


----------



## giggler

*recipe  ettiquit*

I have full permission now to post His recipe.. Big Al, He got a big laugh as I suspected...but I have not tried the recipe yet. 

look forwards to Shrimp ettoofee.

should I just scan his hand written reicpie ?   per the list i think I should really just list the ingredients and other Questions

Eric, Austin Tx.


----------



## CraigC

giggler said:


> I have full permission now to post His recipe.. Big Al, He got a big laugh as I suspected...but I have not tried the recipe yet.
> 
> look forwards to Shrimp ettoofee.
> 
> should I just scan his hand written reicpie ?   per the list i think I should really just list the ingredients and other Questions
> 
> Eric, Austin Tx.



I make it a rule to not post recipes that I haven't tried. If someone is looking for a reference I will provide a link(s), but never recommend a specific recipe untried. Also you might want to do a search of your friend's recipe to make sure it isn't one your friend copied. There are many etouffee recipes on the net. Just saying.


----------



## GotGarlic

CraigC said:


> I make it a rule to not post recipes that I haven't tried. If someone is looking for a reference I will provide a link(s), but never recommend a specific recipe untried. Also you might want to do a search of your friend's recipe to make sure it isn't one your friend copied. There are many etouffee recipes on the net. Just saying.



I thought he wanted to post it so he could ask the group questions about it, not because he was recommending it.


----------



## Addie

A while back I was asked to post a recipe for Boston Baked Beans.

http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f20/boston-baked-beans-93381-2.html 

When I typed it out, I made sure with a lot of little side notes on the method, that it didn't look like it may have been copied from a site. The wording on the directions is strictly mine. Therefore I broke no copy write laws. I not only didn't break any laws, but I was able to stay within the rules of DC.


----------



## PrincessFiona60

giggler said:


> I have full permission now to post His recipe.. Big Al, He got a big laugh as I suspected...but I have not tried the recipe yet.
> 
> look forwards to Shrimp ettoofee.
> 
> should I just scan his hand written reicpie ?   per the list i think I should really just list the ingredients and other Questions
> 
> Eric, Austin Tx.



Post your friend's recipe, Eric.  You can scan or type, the choice is yours.


----------



## Mad Cook

My grandmother, who died in 1973, gave me her recipe for green tomato chutney many years before her death. She also gave it to my mother and my aunts and probably the whole of the village where she lived. I've posted it here in reply to a request and no doubt all my relatives and their relatives, ad infinitum, have done something similar.

So who owns the copyright on that recipe?

A little common sense is required here. If your friend gave you the recipe and didn't say that you must never give it away then  I think it's yours to do with as you please.


----------

