# Spaghetti alla Carbonara



## di reston (May 5, 2017)

In round about 2002 I joined D.C. under the name 'Dianne', and I posted a recipe for Spaghetti alla Carbonara, which, I understand, has been quite widely used.

When, very recently, a good friend of mine gave me a beautiful book of The cookery of Rome and Lazio, I came across this piece about this much appreciated dish. It brought tears to my eyes. Here it is:

We have already seen in this book various references to World War II recipes that seem out of context, especially pasta dishes devised by local trattorie at the 'lower' end of the restaurant trade, and which were simple dishes using very basic ingredients. After the war, some dishes made it through as staples on the modest trattoria menus, and nowadays represent the character and tenacity of the Roman people who survived World War II, in part because they are still part of Italian tradition and also moved with the times. These are recipes that have found their way into the vast catalogue of the gastromony of Rome and Lazio -somewhat akin to an entry permit with citizenship. World War II entries with permanent citizenship are such as 'dressing' of tuna, and mushrooms in the recipes for Spaghetti alla Carrettiera; other meritorious dishes are 'La Checca' (tomatoes and basil) - the list is long. But by far the most typical of these post-War dishes is 'La Carbonara'.

The turning point in the World War II campaign in Italy, led by American troops, when they took possession of the Capital City - Rome. By then the people of Rome were at the point of starvation, and had taken to eating cats, dogs and rats. The American troops also had to eat. They all had to eat. The Italians had spaghetti, pecorino, and olive oil. The American troops had bacon and dried egg powder. It became one of the most popular of all Italian pasta dishes, and still is.


di reston


Enough is never as good as a feast     Oscar Wilde


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## Andy M. (May 5, 2017)

That's very interesting.  I had no idea this dish came from WWII.  Its interesting we always hear stories about coal miners making this dish when they got home from the mines.


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## di reston (May 5, 2017)

There aren't any coal mines round Rome! Charcoal yes. It's well known, too, that over here they've tried to cover up the real story. Italian history relating to WWII is grim. The Landing at Anzio by your guys changed the whole way things were going in WWII. So not only were you fundamental in securing freedom in Italy, you also provided food to a starving people. That is no small thing.

di reston


Enough is never as good as a feast    Oscar Wilde


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## Andy M. (May 5, 2017)

di reston said:


> There aren't any coal mines round Rome! Charcoal yes. It's well known, too, that over here they've tried to cover up the real story. Italian history relating to WWII is grim. The Landing at Anzio by your guys changed the whole way things were going in WWII. So not only were you fundamental in securing freedom in Italy, you also provided food to a starving people. That is no small thing.
> 
> di reston
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing the history of the dish and that period of time in your country.


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## di reston (May 5, 2017)

It's a tribute to your country as well. Things may well have turned out very differently if your guys hadn't come over here. You're pretty awsome people!

di reston


Enough is never as good as a feast    Oscar Wilde


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## Andy M. (May 5, 2017)

di reston said:


> It's a tribute to your country as well. Things may well have turned out very differently if your guys hadn't come over here. You're pretty awsome people!
> 
> di reston
> 
> ...



Nice of you to say so.


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## Sagittarius (May 5, 2017)

As with uncountable recipes, the origins, of the dishes and their names are often obscure in the exterior.  This dish,  has had numerous theories regarding the origins of its name as per Wikipedia (Carbonara). 

However, to move on,  the Pasta alla Carbonara, was included in a book by Elizabeth David, called Italian Food, an English Language Cookbook published in The U.K. in 1954.   

This dish is not, however, in  Ada Boni´s  classic written in 1930, La Cucina Romana and was  NOT recorded before WWII.   

In 1950, it was described in the Italian Newspaper LA STAMPA, as a dish the American Officiers brought to life after they liberated  Rome, in 1944.

It has since, been described as a Roman dish, as the Troops supplied the eggs, and bacon ..   

Fascinating history ..  Thank you for posting Di Reston.


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## tenspeed (May 5, 2017)

I just looked up the recipe and will have to give it a try.  Thanks.

  I wonder how "authentic" US versions of Italian dishes are.  I suspect they may be more New Jersey than Naples.  From what I've read, post-war Italian cuisine is different from pre-war, as it is in much of the western industrialized world.  My understanding is that meat was not an everyday ingredient in Italian cooking, unlike the US, where meat has always been plentiful and relatively inexpensive.


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## Just Cooking (May 5, 2017)

Wonderful story of a simple, delicious dish.. I am happy that, at my age, I learn something new daily...  

Ross


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## di reston (May 6, 2017)

Tenspeed, be mean on the amount of pasta water you use to 'loosen up' the egg mix. You are looking at a good coating creaminess when you add the Pecorino/Parmesan. I've found that Pecorino Roamano - understandably - is the best one. It gives a very nice zing, but don't be tempted to use Grana Padano, it's just too bland.

Meat still doesn't have the rating that it does in the USA but there are still astoundingly good meat recipes in Italy, Florentine steak being one such. It's a chunky steak of ribeye beef, and the Italian people - especially Sardinians and Southern Italians - do really like their spit roasts. Wild boar is a favourite, when the men in the families go hunting. Pork is very widely bred, for barbecues, making salami, and spit roasting. Friends of mine, years ago, one year acquired a pig. They called him Oswald. He was well reared, and his purpose in life was to provide salami, prosciutto, etc. Be he had other ideas.
The day he was put in the back of the truck that would take hime to meet his destiny, when the truck stopped at a road junction, he decided enough was enough and jumped his jailers, disappeared into the woodlands and was never seen again! I'm afraid I've gone OT yet again, but you did raise the topic of meat further back!

di reston

Enough is never as good as a feast     Oscar Wilde


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## Addie (May 6, 2017)

tenspeed said:


> I just looked up the recipe and will have to give it a try.  Thanks.
> 
> I wonder how "authentic" US versions of Italian dishes are.  I suspect they may be more New Jersey than Naples.  From what I've read, post-war Italian cuisine is different from pre-war, as it is in much of the western industrialized world.  My understanding is that meat was not an everyday ingredient in Italian cooking, unlike the US, where meat has always been plentiful and relatively inexpensive.



So true. I grew up in a community of immigrated Italian right after the war. We had a POW camp here out at Wood Island. A park that had swimming, ball parks, etc. During the war it was off limits to us citizens. But the Italians here would cook what they had on hand using what Italian foods they could get their hands on and bring it out to the POWs. Mostly handmade pasta and whatever meat was available to them. Clams and lobsters were plentiful. Considering we are right on the edge of the Atlantic. Meat here was rationed, so to share it with their fellow countrymen was definitely a sacrifice for them. Sometime it was only pasta and a gravy. But the POWs were grateful for a taste of home. 

Hunger didn't disappear immediately when the war was over. And the POWs knew what they had left behind food wise. So they opted to stay here and bring over their families. Everyone who had a couple of feet of earth grew Victory Gardens. And the Italians saved their seeds and grew foods they were familiar with. Including tomatoes. They sort of had their own cooperative. One person would grow tomatoes, another basil, another one eggplant, etc. Then what didn't get canned, they swapped between themselves. Some would sell their produce. To this day, you can spot an Italian home. Just look in their back yard. And if you have a lot of dandelions growing in your lawn, they knock on your door and ask if they may pick them. What the old Italians learned coming from the 'old country', they passed down to their children and now a whole new generations continues with the tradition.


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## di reston (May 6, 2017)

This is exactly why the Italian Accademie della Gastronomia acknowledge Italo-American recipes as part of 'La Cucina Italiana'. I would say more, but Lucas, my dog, is hounding me for his dinner because I'm a bit late with it!


di reston


Enough is never as good as a feast     Oscar Wilde


di reston


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## Just Cooking (May 6, 2017)

Addie said:


> So true. I grew up in a community of immigrated Italian right after the war. We had a POW camp here out at Wood Island. A park that had swimming, ball parks, etc. During the war it was off limits to us citizens. But the Italians here would cook what they had on hand using what Italian foods they could get their hands on and bring it out to the POWs. Mostly handmade pasta and whatever meat was available to them. Clams and lobsters were plentiful. Considering we are right on the edge of the Atlantic. Meat here was rationed, so to share it with their fellow countrymen was definitely a sacrifice for them. Sometime it was only pasta and a gravy. But the POWs were grateful for a taste of home.
> 
> Hunger didn't disappear immediately when the war was over. And the POWs knew what they had left behind food wise. So they opted to stay here and bring over their families. Everyone who had a couple of feet of earth grew Victory Gardens. And the Italians saved their seeds and grew foods they were familiar with. Including tomatoes. They sort of had their own cooperative. One person would grow tomatoes, another basil, another one eggplant, etc. Then what didn't get canned, they swapped between themselves. Some would sell their produce. To this day, you can spot an Italian home. Just look in their back yard. And if you have a lot of dandelions growing in your lawn, they knock on your door and ask if they may pick them. What the old Italians learned coming from the 'old country', they passed down to their children and now a whole new generations continues with the tradition.



Brings back wonderful memories of growing up during the war here.. Sardine fishing ruled here and our neighborhood had so many different nationality family's.. Everyone, including us, had a Victory garden and everyone shared what was grown.. Lean but good times..  

Ross


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## Andy M. (May 6, 2017)

Since were on the subject of carbonara, here's Dianne's original recipe:  http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f20/spaghetti-alla-carbonara-668.html


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## tenspeed (May 6, 2017)

Welcome to Accademia Italiana della Cucina | Accademia Italiana della Cucina

Interesting web site.  Hundreds of recipes, but unfortunately I don't understand Italian, and Google's Chrome translation feature doesn't work very well with these recipes.  At least the magazines are in English.

We took a cruise along the west side of Italy last year.  At one of our stops, the local guide (a German national) said he would be using the international language - bad English!


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## caseydog (May 8, 2017)

tenspeed said:


> I just looked up the recipe and will have to give it a try.  Thanks.
> 
> I wonder how "authentic" US versions of Italian dishes are.  I suspect they may be more New Jersey than Naples.  From what I've read, post-war Italian cuisine is different from pre-war, as it is in much of the western industrialized world.  My understanding is that meat was not an everyday ingredient in Italian cooking, unlike the US, where meat has always been plentiful and relatively inexpensive.



My family settled in America about 100 years ago. My great grandfather came first from Torino, got a job, and brought his wife and first two kids over. They had six more kids, one was my grandfather.

Recipes were adapted to use ingredients readily available here. Meat was one of them. So, more meat was used by Italian Immigrants. 

There is even a category of Italian food called "Immigrant Italian." 

Then again, Texas (where I live) has a big German immigrant community, and things like chicken fried steak are not far off from German Schnitzels. 

I've spent time in Italy, and have eaten pizza in Napoli, and the food is different, but I can still taste a distinct heritage in good Immigrant Italian foods. 

Clarification -- when I say that, I'm not talking about Olive Garden or Cici's Pizza. That's like calling Taco Bell "Mexican" cuisine. But, there are a lot of places in the US where you can get some Italian food that may not be 100-percent authentic, but pays due respect to Italian traditions. 

CD


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## Addie (May 9, 2017)

In the North End of Boston the whole section was at one time immigrant Italians. Now the Yuppies are moving in as the old timers pass away. Their children want out of the crowded tenements. But there are still some grandmothers who carry on with their food traditions and what they learned from their immigrating parents. Over the years they managed to buy the four/five story walk-up. In the first floor they put in a small restaurant with three or four tables. In the back all the cooking is done with the pots and pans that their parents sent to Italy for. The income helped pay for their mortgage and later for the kids to go off to college. 

But if you want a dish right out of Italy, you look in the door and if you see only a few tables, that is where you go to eat. The pasta is most likely freshly made right there. And you know the sauces are freshly made every day. You can taste it. What little land came with the property, you will find fresh tomatoes and herbs growing on it. What they don't cook with, they can.


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## Mad Cook (May 9, 2017)

di reston said:


> In round about 2002 I joined D.C. under the name 'Dianne', and I posted a recipe for Spaghetti alla Carbonara, which, I understand, has been quite widely used.
> 
> When, very recently, a good friend of mine gave me a beautiful book of The cookery of Rome and Lazio, I came across this piece about this much appreciated dish. It brought tears to my eyes. Here it is:
> 
> ...


Excuse me! The "Yanks" weren't on their own in invading/liberating Italy, you know.

(And my uncle and others from our side of the pond had been at it in Burma for several years before Erroll Flynn ("Operation Burma") and "Merill's Maurauders" got involved!!!!!   )


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## Addie (May 9, 2017)

Mad Cook said:


> Excuse me! The "Yanks" weren't on their own in invading/liberating Italy, you know.
> 
> (And my uncle and others from our side of the pond had been at it in Burma for several years before Erroll Flynn ("Operation Burma") and "Merill's Maurauders" got involved!!!!!   )



My first husband was in the war and he came from England. He was captured twice in India and escaped twice. He was not allowed to leave England until Germany finally gave in was he allowed to leave the island. He was then sent to Italy to help in the mopping up. It was seeing how inventive the Italians were with what little food they could find, that he decided to become a chef.


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## di reston (May 9, 2017)

In response to Mad Cook:

I am sorry if you have taken offense at what I wrote. I can assure the information came from a very reliable source. It is well known that, after the Landing at Anzio, the American troops broke away from the main body of infantry to get to Rome as soon as they could. It was clearly NOT a case of winning any races. (see information in Wikipedia on the landings at Anzio), and I have heard information from friends of mine in Rome when I was a student at the Università degli Studi in 1967 - 1969, whose families had all suffered terribly. I never said or implied that the other troops did nothing. I suggest most sincerely that you read the Wikipedia entry on the subject.

Without prejudice,

di reston


Enough is never as good as a feast     Oscar Wilde


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## caseydog (May 9, 2017)

Addie said:


> In the North End of Boston the whole section was at one time immigrant Italians. Now the Yuppies are moving in as the old timers pass away. Their children want out of the crowded tenements. But there are still some grandmothers who carry on with their food traditions and what they learned from their immigrating parents. Over the years they managed to buy the four/five story walk-up. In the first floor they put in a small restaurant with three or four tables. In the back all the cooking is done with the pots and pans that their parents sent to Italy for. The income helped pay for their mortgage and later for the kids to go off to college.
> 
> But if you want a dish right out of Italy, you look in the door and if you see only a few tables, that is where you go to eat. The pasta is most likely freshly made right there. And you know the sauces are freshly made every day. You can taste it. What little land came with the property, you will find fresh tomatoes and herbs growing on it. What they don't cook with, they can.



I haven't been to Boston in quite a while, but I have been to that neighborhood, and have eaten in one of those restaurants with just a few tables. Good stuff!

CD


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## Mad Cook (May 10, 2017)

di reston said:


> In response to Mad Cook:
> 
> I am sorry if you have taken offense at what I wrote. I can assure the information came from a very reliable source. It is well known that, after the Landing at Anzio, the American troops broke away from the main body of infantry to get to Rome as soon as they could. It was clearly NOT a case of winning any races. (see information in Wikipedia on the landings at Anzio), and I have heard information from friends of mine in Rome when I was a student at the Università degli Studi in 1967 - 1969, whose families had all suffered terribly. I never said or implied that the other troops did nothing. I suggest most sincerely that you read the Wikipedia entry on the subject.
> 
> ...


It's OK Di. It was was only partly serious. I hope I didn't upset you.


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