# This Is What Barbecue Means To Me



## Guest

It's quite erroneous to assume that simply introducing wood into the cooking process of a piece of meat constitutes as barbecue. 

The following methods may produce something that you enjoy eating, selling or entering into cook-offs.  But none of them produce classic American barbecue! 
Lump Charcoal

Although it is technically hardwood coals,  lump charcoal is not going to exactly duplicate the traditional taste imparted by hardwood burned to coals.  On the bright side,  it is usually made from 100% hardwood.  We'll reluctantly label this method "The Best Way to Do It Wrong".  However,  we feel that many proponents of this fuel tend to exaggerate it's relevance when comparing it to other incorrect fuel sources. 

It seems like fairly sound logic to assume that if something isn't being done right,  then it's probably being done wrong!

Lump Charcoal with added raw wood

Adding raw wood to lump charcoal in a covered cooker of any size is going to take you completely away from any authentic or traditional taste in your meat.

I don't care how rampantly this technique is used or how often it is recommended -- it isn't going to impart anything close to the correct taste in meat, from a traditional standpoint. 

Gas/Electric

Simply put,  using gas or electricity, in any capacity, cannot be considered barbecue from a traditional standpoint because neither were available for use in our original barbecue.  But if you're going to do it wrong anyway,  why not make it easy on yourself? 

Gas/Electric with added raw wood

Here we go again.  We've sailed around the fruit loop and taken something that was not right to begin with and turned it into something even more obviously wrong.  Once the smoke from raw wood is introduced,  you've imparted very obvious flaws in both taste and appearance,  from an authenticity standpoint. 

Live Fire

In an enclosed set-up, this method imparts about the same incorrect flavor as the other methods using raw wood.  Uncovered,  a live fire will not impart any meaningful smoke flavor or smoke ring into meat.  Live fires would have been impractical to use for cooking pigs in early primitive set-ups for a variety of reasons,  the most notable being the increased likelihood of grease fires. 

Charcoal Briquettes/Liquid Smoke

Both of these are too ridiculous to discuss, but are still commonly used


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## Uncle Al

So what exactly does constitute Classic American Barbecue??????


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## LarryWolfe

Uncle Al said:
			
		

> So what exactly does constitute Classic American Barbecue??????



This right here is what constitutes a Classic American BBQ! 



			
				Larry Wolfe said:
			
		

> I made the best BBQ the other night in the microwave!  Here's the recipe.
> 
> 1 5lb Boston Butt
> Liquid Smoke
> Yellow Mustard
> McCormicks Seasoned Salt
> 
> Liberally coat the roast with LS, Yellow Mustard and then MSS in that order
> Cook at 25% power, test for tenderness every 15 minutes until the roast pulls with little effort and internal temp reads 195*
> Mine took a little over an hour and 15minutes
> 
> Very good for a quick dinner!


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## Nick Prochilo

I for one am glad that I can look at things with an open mind. If it tastes the way I like, my family likes it and my friends like it, I don't care if Ludi don't like it! I'd bet money that there are people on this board, that cook with any of the above methods that Ludi doesn't like, that could cook just as good, if not better than Ludi! But it is nice to see other OPINIONS about bbq.


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## Guest

Guess your reading comprehension Is not too great. Read it again. See where it say's "  the traditional taste imparted by hardwood burned to coals"  :roll:


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## Guest

Sad, But true Larry, Nick, I agree with you. I'm just old school. I was only sharing my opinion.


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## Woodman1

Ludi, I happen to agree with you 100%. You will never sway most folks though and it really doesn't matter. I know that many folks win double blind contests using many forms of charcoal driven apparatii. I doubt very seriously if you , or I could taste the difference between BBQ well done on a WSM or $50,000 log pit. From the BBQ cooks point of view, I believe that the best experience comes from tending a log pit. It "connects" the cook to the product, the history, and the romance of the art. It is the reason I went with a traditional Klose log pit as opposed to a boxy, industrial looking Southern Pride, or Old Hickory one. The fact is, most folks cannot afford, or do not _want_ to spend the money on a $1000+ log burner for their backyard use. To truly do it right, without having to fool with countless modifications, I believe that you really need to go with a quality , .25" thick log burner. Otherwise, you are trying to maintain a fire in a breadbox and that is work! Other folks, don't want to deal with the time involved in tending a fire all day. I could not  leave my old 20 x 36" pit for more than 1/2 hour during a cook. I don't care though. I have to run around and tend to ******** all week. Twelve hours sitting in a chair and watching a fire on Saturday suits me just fine!
 I have known at least 4 guys who bought Klose pits, along with the charcoal basket and, once they tried to do it with all wood, and learned the method, became converts who now, only use charcoal in a pinch. If I have to run up to the store or some other task, I'll throw a couple chimneys inn to keep her going myself!
 In my new mobile, I added gas assist. I'll try not to use it, but if it's 3:00 am, and I get tired at a cook site, I'm switchin it on and catchin some ZZZZZZZZ's and I guarantee, nobody, including you or me, would be any the wiser.
 You are arguing semantics here. You can make your point, but you aren't going to convince anyone who cooks on a WSM that he isn't making "Real BBQ." Don't stress over it brother! Have fun! WOOD-man


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## LarryWolfe

:tant:  :tant:  :tant:  :tant:  :tant:  :tant:  :tant:  :tant:


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## Greg Rempe

Well, even though I'm not making "REAL" BBQ pn my WSM...it tastes ok to me!    OH, that's my thick skin talking!!


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## Finney

Hey WoodOffset,
I'm not trying to _stir the pot_ anymore than it is.  _Don't think it needs it._ You guys will keep this one going without me.
But I don't think Ludi would be including you in there either.  You're not cooking *OVER* coals burnt down from hardwood.


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## Kloset BBQR

My guess is Ludi isn't cooking traditional BBQ either, that is unless he is digging a hole in the ground each time he cooks (Taken to its ultimate extreme, some would label stick burners as crutches).  Now that's traditional old school BBQ but I don't wan't any part of it but I wouldn't mind partaking in the fruits of someone else's labor who has done it that way.

Hey it's the 21st first century.  Time to embrace both the old method  with the new.  My guess is BBQ today is better than it was 200 years ago.  Just my opinion though.


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## LarryWolfe

TexLaw said:
			
		

> LudiChris,
> 
> Without a doubt, you are a highly experienced and old school cook.  You have a great deal of experience that I hope you are willing to share with the rest of the forum.  Maybe you can even pick up a few things from the rest of us.
> 
> While we appreciate that, we all also know that you have quite a hair up your hiney about cooking methods.  You've shared your opinion on the matter more than once over here, already, and you know full well the audience you're talking to.
> 
> As Woodman alluded, just about everyone else on this board has at least one reason why we cannot or will not cook with hardwood coals we burned down on our own.  Whatever the reason is, whether time or expense or available cooking area, that reason is real and it isn't going anywhere anytime soon.  From time to time, we may get a wistful, far away look and wonder what might be if we could cook like you do.  However, the fact is that we all enjoy our time and make an excellent product that pleases us and those around us.
> 
> Please allow me to state that again - We all enjoy our time and make an excellent product that pleases us and those around us.  That is what barbeque means to me.
> 
> Now, if you would like to stop preaching and start teaching, I would be honored to learn from someone with your experience and your unusual, fortunate circumstances that have allowed you to gain that experience.  However, if you would rather continue your condescending muckraking, then you're just about to read my last word to you.
> 
> 
> TL



 :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:


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## Woodman1

Chris Finney said:
			
		

> Hey WoodOffset,
> I'm not trying to _stir the pot_ anymore than it is.  _Don't think it needs it._ You guys will keep this one going without me.
> But I don't think Ludi would be including you in there either.  You're not cooking *OVER* coals burnt down from hardwood.



What????????? In that case, THIS IS WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## LarryWolfe

Woodman said:
			
		

> Chris Finney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey WoodOffset,
> I'm not trying to _stir the pot_ anymore than it is.  _Don't think it needs it._ You guys will keep this one going without me.
> But I don't think Ludi would be including you in there either.  You're not cooking *OVER* coals burnt down from hardwood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What????????? In that case, THIS IS WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...


LETS GET READY TO RUMBLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!


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## Guest

LMAO!!  It's "Let's pound on LudiChris" these last few days ~ Who's it gonna be next week???   

  :p    :p


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## Captain Morgan

well Steve, to help you cut your losses, I'll give you 25 bucks for your WSM.


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## Guest

$30!!


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## Uncle Al

What a load of crap!!!!!!!!

 "opinion" according to Webster:

A belief or conclusion held with confidence but *not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.*

So, what LudiChris is saying is, that you must use hardwood, burned down to coals, to do "traditional barbcue". But,then he says "hardwood lump (which is hardwood burned down to coals) is the best way to do it *wrong,*"I must be a real dumbass.

Al


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## Guest

GlennR said:
			
		

> Now I understand the choice of screen name.


LMAO!!  Took you long enough!  :p  :p


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## Captain Morgan

Uncle Al said:
			
		

> What a load of crap!!!!!!!!
> 
> "opinion" according to Webster:
> 
> A belief or conclusion held with confidence but *not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.*
> 
> So, what LudiChris is saying is, that you must use hardwood, burned down to coals, to do "traditional barbcue". But,then he says "hardwood lump (which is hardwood burned down to coals) is the best way to do it *wrong,*"I must be a real dumbass.
> 
> Al



Yeah I heard he was a Yankee fan too!


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## Guest

Captain Morgan said:
			
		

> [quote="Uncle Al":3cz61h0i]What a load of crap!!!!!!!!
> 
> "opinion" according to Webster:
> 
> A belief or conclusion held with confidence but *not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.*
> 
> So, what LudiChris is saying is, that you must use hardwood, burned down to coals, to do "traditional barbcue". But,then he says "hardwood lump (which is hardwood burned down to coals) is the best way to do it *wrong,*"I must be a real dumbass.
> 
> Al



Yeah I heard he was a Yankee fan too!  [/quote:3cz61h0i]
 :horse: 

(Alright!  What happened to all the good emoticons???!!! TexLaw!!! :badpoke: )


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## Nick Prochilo

Niagara River Smoker said:
			
		

> LMAO!!  It's "Let's pound on LudiChris" these last few days ~ Who's it gonna be next week???
> 
> :p    :p



I'll just bite my tounge with  this one....its not worth it! BTW, I love the way *MY BBQ *tastes!


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## Guest

Maybe, you should have bit it harder...


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## Uncle Al

And other thing,

If you want to throw stones, you had better be perfect in all things including spelling:

Taken from LudiChris's Profile:

Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 42
Location: *Westren* New York

I'm not usually such a nit picker but his post really pissed me off !!!!!

Al


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## Rob D.

I hope those hardwood logs are harvested in a traditional manner, or then it can't be real BBQ, either....

Just last week my friends were sayin' to me "It's too bad this pulled pork you made (in the wsm) wasn't traditional bbq, it would taste so much better..."

Rob  (Mr. untraditional)


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## Woodman1

I like my meat "sun cooked" in the _real_ traditional manner!


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## Greg Rempe

Alright...so as 2 members have pointed out...we are all not eating BBQ...what is the exact point you are trying to make???  Just stating fact, trying to stir it up...???  

Do you eat with forks and spoons, do you drive a car, do you wear clothes, do you cook on a stove, have heat in your house, have a house, do you have a job....see how it can spin out of control and NOT end!!


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## Guest

Bob T said:
			
		

> Anyone have any extra Hemp so we can make a traditional noose so he can be strung up?


Smoked it all ~ Sorry....


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## Greg Rempe

Niagara River Smoker said:
			
		

> [quote="Bob T":21rtepv3]
> Anyone have any extra Hemp so we can make a traditional noose so he can be strung up?


Smoked it all ~ Sorry.... [/quote:21rtepv3]

  ...hello police...he lives @......Grand Island, NY...look for the blue cloud...not the white smoke that is coming out of the bullet shaped object pretending to make BBQ


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## jminion1

LudiChris
What a crock of shit, you cook tradional BBQ in that cooker of yours, willing to bet Bob in GA doesn't think so (another anal asshole).
Lump charcoal is hard wood burned down to coals. I'm glad you like your BBQ but give me a break. Say it like it is, I cook like they did in 1780 and can't think outside of the box.
I always love someone who starts a conversation with, I'm Tradionalist and you are all wrong, now let's have discussion. 


Woodman 
You can't cook tradional bbq on an offset cooker, ask them they will tell you how screwed your thinking is.

Just an opinion of course.
Jim


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## Guest

Greg Rempe said:
			
		

> [quote="Niagara River Smoker":1p7fq2jg][quote="Bob T":1p7fq2jg]
> Anyone have any extra Hemp so we can make a traditional noose so he can be strung up?


Smoked it all ~ Sorry.... [/quote:1p7fq2jg]

  ...hello police...he lives @......Grand Island, NY...look for the blue cloud...not the white smoke that is coming out of the bullet shaped object pretending to make BBQ  [/quote:1p7fq2jg]
Here's a pic from the river!






Tell Border Patrol too!!  Oh...they use my dock for surveillance of the river...

The "Bullet" is in the median... :p

Oh, I forgot...It's been close to 25 years since I "inhaled", so I don't think they're gonna find anything!    :badgrin:    :p  :p


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## Guest

GlennR said:
			
		

> Yeah...what he said!


Who's he???    :?


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## Guest

As fast as things move on this board, it's hard to know sometimes... :badgrin:


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## Shawn White

Wow, I'm suprised by the intensity of some of the responses the original post invoked.    I didn't feel threatened at all. You guys are a bunch of zealots ... (you know who you are  , not that there is anything wrong with that). Maybe I've missed something.

I love the pulled pork and stuff I make on my WSM and given that I only grilled on a gas grill prior to that makes it seem like real BBQ to me.

If Ludi doesn't think I make real BBQ cuz I use a wsm and lump, it's ok with me. I have no inclination to start doing his idea of real BBQ either.

vanstaller, good God man, that was an epic, well written post with many great counter points! Well done! I think you might have missed the detrimental impact modern processing, medications and distribution might have on our meat over a real wild pig though   .

I as well think the main problem with Ludi's post stems from the use of the word 'traditional'. It is relative to a point in time. But I don't fully agree. If the traditional method was to apply smoke and low heat for many hours, that hasn't changed by using a WSM. We are still using wood product as the heat source.

Being the age that I am, 'traditional' to me is grilling over charcoal briquettes in the '70s when I was a young kid. 50 years from now I'm certain Larry's new microwave BBQ will be a traditional method if the government has to ban all unnecessary open fires due to air quality.   

Somebody else said 'I bet it tastes better today'. I bet the end product does taste better given the endless variety of raw ingrediants, spices and other products readily available to us today in our local grocery stores.

Edit: oops, I thought Tex wrote the epic post, initially I credited it to him ... sry folks ... while I'm at it I'd like to expand on one of my statements a bit ... 'I have no inclination to start doing his idea of real BBQ either.' should read 'I have no inclination to start doing his idea of real BBQ either unless it can be proven by results to be a clearly superior method'. thnx


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## Woodman1

It's a tribute to the fierocity and passion that  this stuff inspires , ....I say!


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## Guest

Shawn White said:
			
		

> Wow, I'm suprised by the intensity of some of the responses the original post invoked.    I didn't feel threatened at all. You guys are a bunch of zealots ... (you know who you are  , not that there is anything wrong with that). Maybe I've missed something.
> 
> I love the pulled pork and stuff I make on my WSM and given that I only grilled on a gas grill prior to that makes it seem like real BBQ to me.
> 
> If Ludi doesn't think I make real BBQ cuz I use a wsm and lump, it's ok with me. I have no inclination to start doing his idea of real BBQ either.
> 
> Tex, good God man, that was an epic, well written post with many great counter points! Well done! I think you might have missed the detrimental impact modern processing, medications and distribution might have on our meat over a real wild pig though   .
> 
> I as well think the main problem with Ludi's post stems from the use of the word 'traditional'. It is relative to a point in time. But I don't fully agree. If the traditional method was to apply smoke and low heat for many hours, that hasn't changed by using a WSM. We are still using wood product as the heat source.
> 
> Being the age that I am, 'traditional' to me is grilling over charcoal briquettes in the '70s when I was a young kid. 50 years from now I'm certain Larry's new microwave BBQ will be a traditional method if the government has to ban all unnecessary open fires due to air quality.
> 
> Somebody else said 'I bet it tastes better today'. I bet the end product does taste better given the endless variety of raw ingrediants, spices and other products readily available to us today in our local grocery stores.


And you're still young!    

 8)  8)  8)


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## jminion1

Ken
It helps to be an opinionated asshole. mm: 
Jim


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## Greg Rempe

Shawn, I agree with you as far as not being offended...however, I think it was more the way the topic was broached than has caused the passionate replies.  JMO!

Since this post, Ludi has asked to be removed from the site (his choice!) and I have accomodated his request, so that is why guest is listed!


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## LarryWolfe

Isn't anyone worried about hurting LudiChris' feelings?  After all he's a human being!




























 :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:


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## Captain Morgan

Asked to be removed?  I guess he didn't want anyone on his level to look at the memberlist and see his name here with all us wannabe's!


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## jminion1

I have heard this nonsense for years, I have had this converstation with Bob in GA, the tradition they are always speaking of is what they decide tradition is, it's thiers, no other forms of BBQ can be called BBQ. These same folks use spices that would not been used in the beginning. They're willing to use tin roofing to cover the pit and reflect heat, just how much was roofing was there back in the beginning. They will tell you that cooking coals and the tradition start with white settlers back in the Carolinas, so the natives in America who had been living off the land before they arrived did something different. The whole thought process is flawed. 
There are tradition in other parts of the country and it's different, so what it still tradition. We have more spices and different cuts of meat to play with, so what.

We make our own tradition, building on what came before us. Is it wrong or just different? Anyone that wants to live in the past, go for it. Cooking has always been an evolution, the top chefs in the world are always building on the past.  
Jim


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## Captain Morgan

jminion said:
			
		

> We make our own tradition, building on what came before us. Jim




Best thing I ever read on the internet.


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## LarryWolfe

jminion said:
			
		

> I have heard this nonsense for years, I have had this converstation with Bob in GA, the tradition they are always speaking of is what they decide tradition is, it's thiers, no other forms of BBQ can be called BBQ. These same folks use spices that would not been used in the beginning. They're willing to use tin roofing to cover the pit and reflect heat, just how much was roofing was there back in the beginning. They will tell you that cooking coals and the tradition start with white settlers back in the Carolinas, so the natives in America who had been living off the land before they arrived did something different. The whole thought process is flawed.
> There are tradition in other parts of the country and it's different, so what it still tradition. We have more spices and different cuts of meat to play with, so what.
> 
> We make our own tradition, building on what came before us. Is it wrong or just different? Anyone that wants to live in the past, go for it. Cooking has always been an evolution, the top chefs in the world are always building on the past.
> Jim



And this is exactly why I have switched to cooking my Q in a microwave for now on!  I have introduced wood chips wrapped in saran wrap to my new 1200 watt GE Turntable Microwave along with a 6lb boston butt.  Perfect moist, tender, traditional (hardwood chips) BBQ!


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## Kloset BBQR

Goodbye Ludiguest!


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## Greg Rempe

"CLICK"


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