# Boiling Pasta with the Lid on



## riversurf (Apr 18, 2012)

Hello,

A few weeks ago I asked in the Appliance Forum about the inadequacy of a 13,500 btu gas burner on a brand new range that can't boil water properly with the lid off of the pan*--and thanks again for the many responses. 

My follow up is about how I can adjust to this poor piece of equipment, specifically: Are there any ill effects from boiling pasta with the lid on, or mostly on? Will it be soggy, sticky, or otherwise affect the texture...? (I assure you there's no danger of the water boiling over, not with this sorry burner.)  What about potatoes or any other foods you usually boil in large quantities of water uncovered?

This probably seems like a really naive question; in Web searches, the only reasons I've found for not covering pasta water is to keep the water from boiling over.

Thank you 

Steve



If you're a glutton for tangential details: 
*Just to give an idea of the poor design of this range, it takes *5.5 (!) *minutes to bring a single quart of room temperature water to a rolling boil in a large aluminum sauce pan with a large surface area on the bottom, and it *Will Not *maintain a rolling boil for a gallon of uncovered water. Technician found nothing wrong with the flame, & the gas pressure is OK.) 
Anyone considering buying a Frigidaire gas range, think twice. Shouldn't the flame at least reach the bottom of the grate? I guess the heavy duty grates in this case are all for show.


----------



## Luca Lazzari (Apr 18, 2012)

riversurf said:


> … Are there any ill effects from boiling pasta with the lid on, or mostly on?



Riversurf, I don't think there'se any ill effect from boiling pasta with the lid on. In your case it may be necessary: when the water is boiling and you put the pasta in, the temperature will lower and you'll need to put the lid back on to raise it again.
To properly cook pasta you need plenty of water and a high temperature, to let the water penetrate in the starch, which will increase its volume and, being kept in place by the gluten net, will slightly increase the size of the pasta. When water keeps boiling, pasta dances in the pot and can be touched by water all over its surface, while the temperature helps water reach the core of pasta.
If you use a proper fire you simply don't need to keep the lid on, quite the opposite since it would be more difficult stirring pasta with a fork.


----------



## riversurf (Apr 18, 2012)

Thanks. Glad to hear I'm not doing any "damage" to the flavor or texture. I don't have the option of leaving the lid on, though, because the water will not return to a boil, no matter how long I wait. That's the big--and very frustrating--problem, particularly since the range is new. The burner simply doesn't transfer enough heat to the pot & it just can't boil water without a lid on the pot, won't stay above a simmer. 

Steve


----------



## Addie (Apr 18, 2012)

Just make sure you give the pasta a really good stir before you put the lid on. And should you find it does boil over, just slide the cover off a little bit to the side and the boil over will stop. Just leave a small opening to prevent it from boiling over again.


----------



## Luca Lazzari (Apr 18, 2012)

riversurf said:


> Thanks. Glad to hear I'm not doing any "damage" to the flavor or texture. I don't have the option of leaving the lid on, though, because the water will not return to a boil, no matter how long I wait. That's the big--and very frustrating--problem, particularly since the range is new. The burner simply doesn't transfer enough heat to the pot & it just can't boil water without a lid on the pot, won't stay above a simmer.
> 
> Steve



You're welcome.
But I'm afraid it will be difficult to get a properly cooked pasta in those conditions...


----------



## 4meandthem (Apr 18, 2012)

I put a little oil in the water to keep it from boiling over. It floats at the top and prevents foam from rising. You may also try a wider shallower pot.


----------



## taxlady (Apr 18, 2012)

4meandthem said:


> I put a little oil in the water to keep it from boiling over. It floats at the top and prevents foam from rising. You may also try a wider shallower pot.




That foam can be impressive.

I put the lid on the pot when I boil potatoes.


----------



## riversurf (Apr 18, 2012)

But if the water is boiling properly and the pot is covered, I should, judging by your previous answer (I think) cook the pasta properly, right?  I'll just have to keep removing the lid to stir it now and then.  

Steve


----------



## Addie (Apr 18, 2012)

riversurf said:


> But if the water is boiling properly and the pot is covered, I should, judging by your previous answer (I think) cook the pasta properly, right? I'll just have to keep removing the lid to stir it now and then.
> 
> Steve


 
If the water stays at a rolling boil with the lid on, and you give it a really good stir at the beginning when you first put in the pasta, you shouldn't have to keep stirring it. The pasta should dance in the water as it boils. You may want to give it a second stir when the water comes back to that second boil. That should be enough stirring. Every time you remove the lid to stir, you will be losing heat. You don't want to remove it too often.


----------



## riversurf (Apr 18, 2012)

So all of this is good news. and I can still use the biggest burner, up front, to do other things and leave the water on the back bench, where it should be. 

Thanks


----------



## Margi Cintrano (Apr 19, 2012)

@ Riversurf, 

This is novel, new and a rarity to an Italian ( me ) ... 

However, I trust Luca as he is 100% and I am 50% Italian ... 

Kindest and Good Luck with Your Pastas. 

Margi Cintrano.


----------



## riversurf (Apr 19, 2012)

You mean leaving the pot covered?


----------



## Margi Cintrano (Apr 19, 2012)

River Surf,

Yes, it is a rarity to leave the lid on during the boiling of pastas. 

I have never seen this before and I am publishing journalist and Food, Wine & Travel Editor ... 

However, let´s say, if the pasta is divine --- you are going to set a trend perhaps ! 

Kind regards and thanks for note.
Margi Cintrano.


----------



## GLC (Apr 19, 2012)

For most purposes, adding oil to pasta water is a poor solution. Pasta and sauce dishes depend on the sauce adhering to the pasta. Oil on the surface defeats that. sauce won't stick. Obviously, if the pasta is simply dressed with olive oil and spices, that's no problem But it's bad news with tomato sauces. 

The boil over is caused by the starches released from the pasta. It allows the water to form and hold lots of small bubbles, and the increased surface tension prevents them from popping quickly. So a foam is formed and "boils over" before the bubbles can pop. 

A "pot minder" ("milk minder," "pot watcher) may be the solution to pasta and other boil overs. It's like an upside down saucer, except that the underside slopes upward toward one spot in the edge where there's a gap or spout. Bubbles that form under the minder join to become larger bubble before they escape via the spout, and they rise quickly and pop because they are too big to survive. 







There's an added bonus in the situation here where a lid is required to keep the temperature up. The minder rattles on the bottom when the water is boiling, so you don't have to wonder what's happening under the lid. 

They are inexpensive. 

Amazon.com: Stainless Steel Pot Watcher: Home & Kitchen

Or just put a saucer upside down in the bottom of the pot.


----------



## CharlieD (Apr 19, 2012)

Margi Cintrano said:


> @ Riversurf,
> 
> This is novel, new and a rarity to an Italian ( me ) ...
> 
> Margi Cintrano.


 
Margi, he is having problem with his stove, as he mentioned above, he has posted and we had I think 3 pages discussion about it. The stove/burner doesn't produce enough heat to boil the water in the uncovered pot, thus is the question of covering the pot during cooking to keep the water boiling.


----------



## Luca Lazzari (Apr 19, 2012)

Margi Cintrano said:


> @ Riversurf,
> 
> This is novel, new and a rarity to an Italian ( me ) ...
> 
> ...



Thanks Margi!

Boiling pasta with the lid on is, indeed, a rarity because it is a practice not in use in Italy, and to publish that answer of mine I had to make some thorough research and reasoning. You don't want to destroy your online reputation on a humble lid...

Ciao


----------



## taxlady (Apr 19, 2012)

So, GLC, that thing goes into the pot, at the bottom?


----------



## salt and pepper (Apr 19, 2012)

I believe your burners need an air ajustment. As far as heating your pasta water, keep the lid on till the water boils then remove the lid. You want to simmer the pasta anyway and not keep it at a boil! Don't add oil to the water. After the pasta is cooked you can add butter to it and this will help your sauce "stick".


----------



## riversurf (Apr 19, 2012)

Technician came out and said it's working as it should and the gas pressure checks out. My opinion is that the range is just poorly designed (Frigidaire) and a huge amount of heat energy does not reach the pot. The top of the flame doesn't even lick the bottom of the grate because it's so high off the deck, and we're talking about a 13.5K BTU burner. In comparison, the flame from the biggest burner reaches the pot and does the job wonderfully. Those big, "professional looking" grates are probably a big part of the problem because they're so high off the deck. 

On your other comment about simmering, I've never heard that pasta should be simmered. Water that is simmering is not at boiling point, but at 190-200 degrees F. 

Thanks for weighing in. I really have gotten a lot more than I ever expected from this forum.


----------



## GLC (Apr 19, 2012)

taxlady said:


> So, GLC, that thing goes into the pot, at the bottom?



Yes. Try it by laying a saucer upside down in the bottom with something that would normally want to boil over. It will collect bubbles that will consolidate into large bubbles like those that form in plain water that will burp out from under the saucer and rise to burst on the surface. The idea is that even with the increased surface tension created by pasta starch or milk, regular size bubbles will still burst promptly, and the foam of fine bubbles that cause boil-over won't form. 

I will point out, too, that we had a discussion a while back about heat transfer and the rapidity of boiling, and the point was that the water remained at the boiling point temperature and could rise no higher. Increased heat transfer caused more rapid boiling, which was conversion of more liquid to vapor, but the water temperature stayed the same. 

So the actual cooking of pasta is as rapid in barely boiling water as in rapidly boiling. However, the rapid boil may somewhat take the place of some of the stirring needed to keep pasta from sticking to itself. But the "rapid boil" called for in boiling pasta is important only in the beginning, when the pasta is dropped in, so that as much heat is being transferred as possible, and the water returns quickly to a boil. Rapid boiling and the attendant increased tendency to boil over is not necessary and cooks no faster.


----------



## taxlady (Apr 19, 2012)

GLC said:


> Yes. Try it by laying a saucer upside down in the bottom with something that would normally want to boil over. It will collect bubbles that will consolidate into large bubbles like those that form in plain water that will burp out from under the saucer and rise to burst on the surface. The idea is that even with the increased surface tension created by pasta starch or milk, regular size bubbles will still burst promptly, and the foam of fine bubbles that cause boil-over won't form.
> 
> I will point out, too, that we had a discussion a while back about heat transfer and the rapidity of boiling, and the point was that the water remained at the boiling point temperature and could rise no higher. Increased heat transfer caused more rapid boiling, which was conversion of more liquid to vapor, but the water temperature stayed the same.
> 
> So the actual cooking of pasta is as rapid in barely boiling water as in rapidly boiling. However, the rapid boil may somewhat take the place of some of the stirring needed to keep pasta from sticking to itself. But the "rapid boil" called for in boiling pasta is important only in the beginning, when the pasta is dropped in, so that as much heat is being transferred as possible, and the water returns quickly to a boil. Rapid boiling and the attendant increased tendency to boil over is not necessary and cooks no faster.


Thank you for once again making a great post with excellent explanations.


----------



## Luca Lazzari (Apr 19, 2012)

GLC said:


> Yes. Try it by laying a saucer upside down in the bottom with something that would normally want to boil over. It will collect bubbles that will consolidate into large bubbles like those that form in plain water that will burp out from under the saucer and rise to burst on the surface. The idea is that even with the increased surface tension created by pasta starch or milk, regular size bubbles will still burst promptly, and the foam of fine bubbles that cause boil-over won't form.
> 
> I will point out, too, that we had a discussion a while back about heat transfer and the rapidity of boiling, and the point was that the water remained at the boiling point temperature and could rise no higher. Increased heat transfer caused more rapid boiling, which was conversion of more liquid to vapor, but the water temperature stayed the same.
> 
> So the actual cooking of pasta is as rapid in barely boiling water as in rapidly boiling. However, the rapid boil may somewhat take the place of some of the stirring needed to keep pasta from sticking to itself. But the "rapid boil" called for in boiling pasta is important only in the beginning, when the pasta is dropped in, so that as much heat is being transferred as possible, and the water returns quickly to a boil. Rapid boiling and the attendant increased tendency to boil over is not necessary and cooks no faster.



Perfect. Thanks GLC!


----------



## jabbur (Apr 19, 2012)

If the flame is not reaching the pot, it would take forever to get water boiling.  Can you replace the grate with a different one that will lower the pot to the flame?


----------



## riversurf (Apr 19, 2012)

I would love to find a lower grate that fits, and that's the hard part - one that actually fits. I've even imagined some way to grind down the entire grate from the bottom up, but that's not practical for me.


----------



## Addie (Apr 19, 2012)

riversurf said:


> I would love to find a lower grate that fits, and that's the hard part - one that actually fits. I've even imagined some way to grind down the entire grate from the bottom up, but that's not practical for me.


 
Have you contacted the manufacturer? 

Cooktops/Stovetops - Frigidaire

They may have the solution you are looking for. Thisd is the site for the company. They have a "contact us" at the top.

It sounds like the back burner is a "Low Simmer" burner. This is common on a lot of gas stoves.


----------



## riversurf (Apr 19, 2012)

I contact Frigidaire. All they did was tell me I had to contact one of their "certified" technicians, all of whom are independent fix-it shops. I called one and they sent a technician, who told me everything looked OK. Though I have to say his demeanor and what seemed like an almost complete lack of interest didn't exactly instill me with confidence. So I really can't think of any other options. Just an all around unpleasant experience with Frigidaire. 

The burner I'm talking about isn't the "simmer" burner, it's a 13,500 BTU (supposedly) burner.


----------



## CharlieD (Apr 19, 2012)

I'm sure your past will cook just fine without the lid after you take it of, when rapid boiling will start. As far as your stove goes, why don't you write a letter to the company, express your frustration. Why did you call them earlier, didn't you see that it is not working proparly before waranty expire?


----------



## Kayelle (Apr 19, 2012)

Riversurf, everyone has a boss and I can assure you that whoever you talked to at Frididaire would not want to deal with me or many others here. 

You need to call them again and ask for the direct phone number/email addy for the Director of Public Relations at Frididaire, and don't let some low level phone person give you any lip.  Refer the Director of Public Relations to this thread and your previous thread about this problem.  I can assure you they can solve the problem, and will do nearly anything to avoid bad public reviews of their product.  Don't give up!


----------



## riversurf (Apr 19, 2012)

Point taken, I'll go at 'em again, appreciate the encouragement.


----------



## Andy M. (Apr 19, 2012)

Many stoves in a company's product line share some of the same parts.  For example, the top on your stove (where the grates sit) could be shared with several models, including some lower priced ones that have lower profile grates.

It may take some effort to get them to dig it out for you but you should be able to get what you need.


----------



## Merlot (Apr 19, 2012)

Kayelle said:


> Riversurf, everyone has a boss and I can assure you that whoever you talked to at Frididaire would not want to deal with me or many others here.
> 
> You need to call them again and ask for the direct phone number/email addy for the Director of Public Relations at Frididaire, and don't let some low level phone person give you any lip. Refer the Director of Public Relations to this thread and your previous thread about this problem. I can assure you they can solve the problem, and will do nearly anything to avoid bad public reviews of their product. Don't give up!


 
Excellent advice because if I were ever shopping for a new stove I would steer clear of this one!


----------



## Addie (Apr 19, 2012)

You're right Andy/. If you go to the referenced site in my post to her, you will see that a lot of the models have the same measurements for the same sizetops. Some of them have a raised grate, and others the same size have a flat grate. It looks like the rounded raised top grate could be switched off with a flat raised top grate. The measurements are the same for the 36" tops and the 32" tops. I looked at the spec sheets for each one, and the measurements on them are almost identical except for the rounded and flat top part of the grates. It also looks like the burner in the back is the simmer burner. Start your work on the front burner and slide it to the back for simmer. The BTUs are different for each burner. They are designed with specific jobs in mind. Boiling pasta is not a simmer job. Pasta sauce is. A simmer burner is meant for sauces, stews, and soups. 

Take a looksee and you will see what I mean.


----------



## riversurf (Apr 19, 2012)

It's still under warranty. As far as the rapid boil (actually marked that way on the control dial) that's just not going to happen with an uncovered lid.


----------



## riversurf (Apr 19, 2012)

It would be great (pun intended) if I could switch it out with a lower one. I'll mention that in my email to them (have to go through their website, haven't found any direct emails to PR yet) and when I call their customer "service" line again.


----------



## riversurf (Apr 19, 2012)

Could you please give me that website address you refer to ("If you go to the referenced site in my post to her, you will see that a  lot of the models have the same measurements for the same sizetops...") I can't find it amongst all the posts in this string.

Thanks


----------



## GLC (Apr 19, 2012)

Don't mess with PR. Go to the highest accessible corporate person responsible for appliances. Electrolux owns Frigidaire, so it's:

Kevin Scott
Head of Major Appliances North America, Executive Vice-President
Kevin.Scott@electrolux.com
866-449-4200

Don't assume it won't get to him. Many people who email executives are surprised to hear from the executive, and not just from a minion. Remember he hasn't heard your story before. So you have to begin at the beginning and recount everything you've tried and experienced. 

I would also make a point of mentioning that it's been the subject of a long running discussion here, with a lot of active cooks interested in the problem. 

I honestly don't know what you can reasonably expect, but whatever they're going to be inclined to do, this guy has the stroke to do something substantial. 

That email is about a year old. If it bounces, go to the alternates. Our you can CC: all three. But Mr. Scott is directly responsible for U.S. appliances.

Carina Malmgren Heander
Senior Vice-President, Human Resources and Organizational Development
Carina.MalmgrenHeander@electrolux.com
+46 8 738 60 00


Keith McLoughlin
President and Chief Executive Officer
Keith.McLoughlin@electrolux.com
866-449-4200


----------



## Kayelle (Apr 19, 2012)

GLC said:


> Don't mess with PR. Go to the highest accessible corporate person responsible for appliances. Electrolux owns Frigidaire, so it's:
> 
> Kevin Scott
> Head of Major Appliances North America, Executive Vice-President
> ...



  Kudo's to you GLC for doing the research, and I couldn't agree more.
My reason for recommending the Director of Public Relations is because of some excellent results I had many years ago with the DPR for Ford Motor Company.  My car had just gone out of warranty when it needed some very costly repairs that I simply could not afford.  To make a long story short, I finally got his phone number and I think he felt so sorry for me after he heard my desperate and tearful story, that he told me to take it to the dealer to be fixed at no charge.  That was some 40 years ago, and I've never forgotten that talking to the right person can change everything.


----------



## riversurf (Apr 19, 2012)

Hats off to you for digging up that information, I assure you I'll use it. Thanks.


----------

