# She should have gotten out of the car!



## LarryWolfe (Jun 3, 2005)

She'll listen next time!she should have gotten out!.wmv


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## ScottyDaQ (Jun 3, 2005)

Have you seen the one that brings down a bull? The sounds kill me.
http://www.big-boys.com/articles/bulltaser.html


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## DaleP (Jun 3, 2005)

The good ol police. I bet he enjoyed the power high from that. Yep she should have listened but , damn. Not impressed.


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## Kloset BBQR (Jun 3, 2005)

DaleP said:
			
		

> The good ol police. I bet he enjoyed the power high from that. Yep she should have listened but , damn. Not impressed.



Me neither.  Very excessive use of force considering the perp.  Where is Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton when you need them.  My guess is there will be a lawsuit in that Cops future.  I wonder if that was the same lady that called 911 about her Burger King Western Burger?


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## LarryWolfe (Jun 3, 2005)

Well in the Officer's defense, we don't know the full story as to why they pulled her over or whether or not they believed she was armed.  Plus, she did swing at the one who tazed her and was being combative and would not listen to his directions.  Ya'll can say what you want, whether she was a woman or a man I would have done the same thing.  Law Enforcement Officers get a bad rap, some deserved but mostly undeserved.  Whether you're impressed or not everyone involved went home to their families ALIVE.


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## Kloset BBQR (Jun 3, 2005)

Larry Wolfe said:
			
		

> Well in the Officer's defense, we don't know the full story as to why they pulled her over or whether or not they believed she was armed.  Plus, she did swing at the one who tazed her and was being combative and would not listen to his directions.  Ya'll can say what you want, whether she was a woman or a man I would have done the same thing.  Law Enforcement Officers get a bad rap, some deserved but mostly undeserved.  Whether you're impressed or not everyone involved went home to their families ALIVE.



Well Larry, I side with the law 99.9% of the time.  But she sounded like a ditzy soccer mom to me. Cops should use appropriate force to match the threat.  Hate to see potentially deadly force used in a case where it isn't really called for.  We had a guy here go into cardiac arrest and die when he was tazed.  I too am glad everyone came home alive but think it could have been handled with less force. Officers judgment call in this case.  Just surprised we haven't seen this one on the news.


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## LarryWolfe (Jun 3, 2005)

Kloset BBQR said:
			
		

> [quote="Larry Wolfe":2f0ytqe7]Well in the Officer's defense, we don't know the full story as to why they pulled her over or whether or not they believed she was armed.  Plus, she did swing at the one who tazed her and was being combative and would not listen to his directions.  Ya'll can say what you want, whether she was a woman or a man I would have done the same thing.  Law Enforcement Officers get a bad rap, some deserved but mostly undeserved.  Whether you're impressed or not everyone involved went home to their families ALIVE.



Well Larry, I side with the law 99.9% of the time.  But she sounded like a ditzy soccer mom to me. Cops should use appropriate force to match the threat.  Hate to see potentially deadly force used in a case where it isn't really called for.  We had a guy here go into cardiac arrest and die when he was tazed.  I too am glad everyone came home alive but think it could have been handled with less force. Officers judgment call in this case.  Just surprised we haven't seen this one on the news.[/quote:2f0ytqe7]

She sounded like a big ol girl that would have put a whooping on that cop!  He didn't want to get whooped by a woman!


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## Kloset BBQR (Jun 3, 2005)

Larry Wolfe said:
			
		

> [quote="Kloset BBQR":1mdnggb5][quote="Larry Wolfe":1mdnggb5]Well in the Officer's defense, we don't know the full story as to why they pulled her over or whether or not they believed she was armed.  Plus, she did swing at the one who tazed her and was being combative and would not listen to his directions.  Ya'll can say what you want, whether she was a woman or a man I would have done the same thing.  Law Enforcement Officers get a bad rap, some deserved but mostly undeserved.  Whether you're impressed or not everyone involved went home to their families ALIVE.



Well Larry, I side with the law 99.9% of the time.  But she sounded like a ditzy soccer mom to me. Cops should use appropriate force to match the threat.  Hate to see potentially deadly force used in a case where it isn't really called for.  We had a guy here go into cardiac arrest and die when he was tazed.  I too am glad everyone came home alive but think it could have been handled with less force. Officers judgment call in this case.  Just surprised we haven't seen this one on the news.[/quote:1mdnggb5]

She sounded like a big ol girl that would have put a whooping on that cop!  He didn't want to get whooped by a woman![/quote:1mdnggb5]

He should have at least given the command, "Put the cell phone down, put the cell phone down!" :grin:


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## ScottyDaQ (Jun 3, 2005)

I agree it was excessive. She wasn't combative IMO. There are plenty of pressure point holds that Police Officers are trained that would've been plenty effective. Looks like someone was having a bad day.


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## DaleP (Jun 3, 2005)

She didnt look like but sounded like an old flame of mine.   

She probably deserved it and Lord knows what she did in the first place. She was stupid for not doing what he commanded from the very beginning. So Larry dont get all riled up about it, you got youre opinion, I got mine and neither really will change what happened.  Peace Brother, no foul intended to you.


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## Greg Rempe (Jun 3, 2005)

Larry Wolfe said:
			
		

> She'll listen next time!she should have gotten out!.wmv



It seems the link has gone bad!  Not working for me!


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## Rob D. (Jun 3, 2005)

Me too, Greg....

Rob


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## Kloset BBQR (Jun 3, 2005)

Greg Rempe said:
			
		

> [quote="Larry Wolfe":1h6m80lb]She'll listen next time!she should have gotten out!.wmv



It seems the link has gone bad!  Not working for me![/quote:1h6m80lb]

The cops have probably destroyed the evidence!  Looks like Rodney or should I say Rhonda King all over again.  Can't we all just get along?


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## Captain Morgan (Jun 4, 2005)

I for one have no problem with police using whatever force necessary to
get the job done.  I loved it when that kid in Florida (or wherever) got handcuffed.

  Don't want trouble?  Don't cause it for yourself, and don't make it worse.
Citizens mistakes and cops mistakes can be corrected if everyone just acts calmly and let the process work.


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## LarryWolfe (Jun 4, 2005)

1044 said:
			
		

> Well, I can tell lot's o' you guy ain't cops.
> 
> But, as I always told my sons as they grew up, "The side of the road is the cop's venue, the courtroom is yours." That was even before I became one (cop, not a courtroom).
> 
> ...



AMEN AND A BIG 10-4 GOOD BUDDY!!!


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## LarryWolfe (Jun 4, 2005)

Vom_Willemstad_K-9 said:
			
		

> Here's some more info on this story..
> 
> http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localn...s/epaper/2005/05/29/a16a_taser_vig1_0529.html
> 
> ...



Thanks Adrian, I rest my case! She got what she deserved, period!!!!


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## ddog27 (Jun 4, 2005)

Kloset BBQR said:
			
		

> [quote="Larry Wolfe":2t88dc84]Well in the Officer's defense, we don't know the full story as to why they pulled her over or whether or not they believed she was armed.  Plus, she did swing at the one who tazed her and was being combative and would not listen to his directions.  Ya'll can say what you want, whether she was a woman or a man I would have done the same thing.  Law Enforcement Officers get a bad rap, some deserved but mostly undeserved.  Whether you're impressed or not everyone involved went home to their families ALIVE.



Well Larry, I side with the law 99.9% of the time.  But she sounded like a ditzy soccer mom to me. Cops should use appropriate force to match the threat.  Hate to see potentially deadly force used in a case where it isn't really called for.  We had a guy here go into cardiac arrest and die when he was tazed.  I too am glad everyone came home alive but think it could have been handled with less force. Officers judgment call in this case.  Just surprised we haven't seen this one on the news.[/quote:2t88dc84]


How many times have you wanted to taze a ditzy soccer mom talking on her cell phone while driving??    :grin:     :grin:


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## LarryWolfe (Jun 5, 2005)

ddog27 said:
			
		

> Kloset BBQR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




How many times have you wanted to taze a ditzy soccer mom talking on her cell phone while driving??    :grin:     :grin:[/quote:i19exrk0]

NO they just need to be KILLED!!!  That is my pet peeve, these damn idiots talking on their phones like they are sitting in their living room but driving 50MPH in the fast lane.   :vent:


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## Finney (Jun 6, 2005)

I thought you were talking about me until you said "driving 50 in the fast lane".  I've never done that unless tht was as fast as I could push the car in front of me. 8-[


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## Pigs On The Wing BBQ (Jun 7, 2005)

I can tell you from personal experience, If you do not listen to the cops and fallow there orders and start being a wise guy, They WILL make you understand that your crap your giving them will not be tolerated.I spent a few Saturday nights in the can back in my hell raising days. (something I'm not proud of) If they have to call for back up, Sure as hell you were going to get your ass kicked! One morning I was asked "Now don't you feel stupid?" All I said was " Yes sir, Sorry for the trouble sir" One cop that was getting off duty would give me a ride home and try to explain to me that being a idiot was not a good idea. Fat chance of that happening these days! Cops are all right in my book.


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## Nick Prochilo (Jun 9, 2005)

I agree with Pig & Larry. If the man has a gun, i will do as I'm told! BTW, he was just doing what WE pay him to do! 9 times out of 10, if you do what they say and are polite, you will get off with less than you should!


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## Finney (Jun 9, 2005)

Kloset BBQR said:
			
		

> [quote="Larry Wolfe":qyqhgi9v][quote="Kloset BBQR":qyqhgi9v][quote="Larry Wolfe":qyqhgi9v]Well in the Officer's defense, we don't know the full story as to why they pulled her over or whether or not they believed she was armed.  Plus, she did swing at the one who tazed her and was being combative and would not listen to his directions.  Ya'll can say what you want, whether she was a woman or a man I would have done the same thing.  Law Enforcement Officers get a bad rap, some deserved but mostly undeserved.  Whether you're impressed or not everyone involved went home to their families ALIVE.



Well Larry, I side with the law 99.9% of the time.  But she sounded like a ditzy soccer mom to me. Cops should use appropriate force to match the threat.  Hate to see potentially deadly force used in a case where it isn't really called for.  We had a guy here go into cardiac arrest and die when he was tazed.  I too am glad everyone came home alive but think it could have been handled with less force. Officers judgment call in this case.  Just surprised we haven't seen this one on the news.[/quote:qyqhgi9v]

She sounded like a big ol girl that would have put a whooping on that cop!  He didn't want to get whooped by a woman![/quote:qyqhgi9v]

He should have at least given the command, "Put the cell phone down, put the cell phone down!" :grin:[/quote:qyqhgi9v]
Kloset, not to argue but I heard the cop say exactly that twice.  He also told her to get out of the car at least 6 times.  Some people just need taze'n.


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## Kloset BBQR (Jun 9, 2005)

Chris,

Like I said I support law enforcement 99.99% of the time and when I saw the
tape I saw no evidence of the lady taking a swing at the cop (not to say that it didn't happen) which would certainly be grounds for tazing.  Some people, most people may not think or act rationally when a gun or a tazer is pointing at their head.  I still don't believe the second tazing was necessary. You can certainly hear the woman screaming that she couldn't move her arms.  I just didn't and I still didn't see the threat as being so severe to use that kind of force.  And as I had mentioned earlier, we had a guy here in Cleveland die from a tazing, so a tazer should be used judiciously.  I personally think the cop overreacted but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.  It's always easy being a Monday morning quarterback.


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## Nick Prochilo (Jun 9, 2005)

On the tape you can hear her tell the cop she ain't hanging the phone up. She proceded to give him a hard time. She should be lucking that I'm not a cop, I would have used my 9MM!


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## ScottyDaQ (Jun 9, 2005)

I can't tell if her seat belt was still on or not, but there's a real nice take down move to get people out of the car with just your PR-24. ... Many more with a Handler 12.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2005)

In the long version of the tape the cop states that he pulled her over for speeding and not wearing a seat belt.


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## Kloset BBQR (Jun 11, 2005)

Well I question anyone's manhood that uses on a tazer on a threat like that!

What a wus!


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## Greg Rempe (Jun 11, 2005)

Wuss or not...I don't generally tell a police officer to wait while I make a phone call...I typically say "yes sir" "right away sir" "sorry sir" nothing he can confuse and then heel me down with a taser!

It's always best to be pleaseant with them officers...they have a tendenacy to get really pissed really quick (with good reason) and there's usually a bunch of them to help a fellow officer out! :!:


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## Kloset BBQR (Jun 11, 2005)

Now I'm not defending her logic by any means Greg.  All I'm saying is you'ld never see Clint Eastwood or John Wayne use a tazer.  Good for her I guess! :grin:


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## DaleP (Jun 12, 2005)

This is why I dont talk politics with friends. If I did, we wouldnt be friends very long. By the way I voted for Bush, sue me. :razz:


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## Greg Rempe (Jun 12, 2005)

Susan Z said:
			
		

> Actually, sometimes people throw rocks and stuff at firemen while they're putting out fires---bizarre, but true!!---so don't think they get a totally free pass.
> 
> People often love their mailmen but hate post office clerks.  Why?  Cuz mailmen are usually nice to you and seem to be doing you a big favor by bringing you your mail, and postal clerks can give you attitude and make it hard to mail things and tell you "No, you can't do that, you taped it wrong,"etc., and there's not a darn thing you can do about it.  It's similar to firemen vs. cops.
> 
> ...



I agree with Susan, so it is my hope that instead of reaching for a tazer they choose the Glock 9mm and increase the death rate percentage!  I would never question an officer on these events.  It is rare these days to find anyone who just listens to an officers commands, unless they are in danger and then they have no problem calling them.

Instigators should be happy they were tazed instead of summarily "put down" ...which would happen with a bullet gun!  If a few meet their demise from the tazer, instaed of questioning the result, why not questioin what lead up to that...at least there was a non-leathal attempt at apprehending a suspect, criminal or whatever...it just didn't work that time.  Listening to the officer would have given the dead person life...their choice!


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## LarryWolfe (Jun 12, 2005)

Greg Rempe said:
			
		

> [quote="Susan Z":iljh2r0a]Actually, sometimes people throw rocks and stuff at firemen while they're putting out fires---bizarre, but true!!---so don't think they get a totally free pass.
> 
> People often love their mailmen but hate post office clerks.  Why?  Cuz mailmen are usually nice to you and seem to be doing you a big favor by bringing you your mail, and postal clerks can give you attitude and make it hard to mail things and tell you "No, you can't do that, you taped it wrong,"etc., and there's not a darn thing you can do about it.  It's similar to firemen vs. cops.
> 
> ...



I agree with Susan, so it is my hope that instead of reaching for a tazer they choose the Glock 9mm and increase the death rate percentage!  I would never question an officer on these events.  It is rare these days to find anyone who just listens to an officers commands, unless they are in danger and then they have no problem calling them.

Instigators should be happy they were tazed instead of summarily "put down" ...which would happen with a bullet gun!  If a few meet their demise from the tazer, instaed of questioning the result, why not questioin what lead up to that...at least there was a non-leathal attempt at apprehending a suspect, criminal or whatever...it just didn't work that time.  Listening to the officer would have given the dead person life...their choice![/quote:iljh2r0a]

Greg,
       You couldn't have said it any better!!!  The officers are putting their lives on the line and as long as they give orders and the suspect does not obey, that to me is risking the cops life and they can use whatever force it necessary!


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## Nick Prochilo (Jun 12, 2005)

Every time they put on their uniform, they put their lives at risk! They pull a car over for what ever reason, they NEVER know what they will encounter when they get to the drivers door! For all of you who don't want to follow their commands when they approach you, I hope you all survive the taser. Me, I'll do exactly what he tells me...thats what OUR taxes are paying for, the police to uphold the LAW!


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## Greg Rempe (Jun 12, 2005)

1044...you were not deleted! :!:


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## Nick Prochilo (Jun 12, 2005)

speaking of disiplining, when I was in Jr. High (yeah, a long time ago), the principle caught me doing something (don't remenber what it was, just remember the lesson). He took me to the office and said he'd either call my father and tell him what I did or give me corporal punishment. I told him to give me corporal punishment because he wouldn't give me fraction of what my father would have given me! It was a lesson well learned.


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## Greg Rempe (Jun 12, 2005)

Nick Prochilo said:
			
		

> speaking of disiplining, when I was in Jr. High (yeah, a long time ago), the principle caught me doing something (don't remenber what it was, just remember the lesson). He took me to the office and said he'd either call my father and tell him what I did or give me corporal punishment. I told him to give me corporal punishment because he wouldn't give me fraction of what my father would have given me! It was a lesson well learned.



People look at me weird when I spank my kids  ...but they listen more than they don't! :!:  :!:


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## Kloset BBQR (Jun 13, 2005)

I'm with you Susan.  In this case, with this person, I think the use of a tazer was unwarranted based on the level of threat involved.  Know we can't tell all what went on before the incident but using a tazer on someone for a seatbelt infraction is over the line.  Looks like a lawsuit is pending.  Tazers need to be treated as a potentially lethal weapon, which they are, potentially lethal that is.

Ask yourself if you'ld support this level of force on your daughter if she was in this situation.  Let's says she scared, and calls you to ask for your help.  In the meantime you got two officers screaming at her pointing a tazer at her head. She's frozen like a dear in the headlights.  While your trying to tell her to cooperate with the police the officers zaps her, pulls her out of the car.  Now with her arms momentarily paralyzed from the blast she hysterically screams at the officers that she can't put her arms behind her back, that she can't move her arms.  So she gets zapped with another 50,000 volts.  I think most of you then would be outraged.  It's easy to say blast away at some soccer Mom that we don't know and can't see but I was a little bit sickened listening to her sobs of pain.  I think a jury might also.

I always tell my son to cooperate with the police and the woman is at fault here for not doing so.  I'm just questioning here the use of lethal force for a minor traffic infraction on a civilian that although she did not follow the officers orders was trying to seek advice from someone.   I've seen officers be far more patient with high speed chase perps than I have with this officer and this perp.  People aren't infallable and that goes for cops too.  I'd like to see some sort of policy outlining when the use of this kind of force is justified.  Now, I'll climb back down from my soapbox.

I intentionally used daughters instead of wives/husbands knowing I might get different answers with the wife or husband as an example.


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## DaleP (Jun 13, 2005)

I bet Andy would have MADE Barney carry his Tazer battery in his button down shirt pocket. Just think how Gomer would have felt getting shocked in front of everybody on the streets of Mayberry over a traffic ticket.


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## Captain Morgan (Jun 13, 2005)

It's a jungle out there.  And me and old Roscoe are heading out into it.


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## Kloset BBQR (Jun 13, 2005)

DaleP said:
			
		

> I bet Andy would have MADE Barney carry his Tazer battery in his button down shirt pocket. Just think how Gomer would have felt getting shocked in front of everybody on the streets of Mayberry over a traffic ticket.



 :grin:  =D>


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## Nick Prochilo (Jun 13, 2005)

Hey 1044, thanks for doing the job you do, the way you do it. In this day and age, police don't get the respect that they deserve!It seems everything they do they get questioned on. It would make me second guess myself all the time, not something a cop should have to do! Like you said, the public can fight it in court!


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## Greg Rempe (Jun 13, 2005)

Respect or not...1044 is right on.  Do what the officer says and if there is a problem to dispute, do it in the courtroom!  Really, that's the bottom line here...had she just hung up the phone and gotten out of the car this thread would not have spanned this many pages.  She was wrong...really!!


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## Finney (Jun 13, 2005)

Lock err down... I'm bored.


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## Bruce B (Jun 14, 2005)

"How do you know if you are in custody?" The handcuffs are usually a dead giveaway!! But seriously....

If you ask the police officer if you are free to leave and his/her answer is anything but yes or absolutely, you are in custody.

Reading of Rights: When I retired in 2003 we were under no obligation to read a person his/her Miranda warnings until they became a "suspect" in a case and we were going to question that person regarding circumstances surrounding the case. This did not include general booking questions such as  name, address, date of birth, etc.  What is a "suspect?" A suspect is a person who the police have "focused" their attention and investigative efforts on in solving a particular crime. This is why the term "person of interest" has become so popular over the past few years when before they were always called suspects, now they are poi's. You can question a person of interest and not read them their Miranda or offer them an attorney. 

Correct me if I am wrong TexLaw, I've been away from the game for a couple years.


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## Kloset BBQR (Jun 14, 2005)

1044 said:
			
		

> Kloset BBQR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Howard,

I'm not aware of the U.S. Supreme Court case that you cite but if you could provide the name of the case, I'd love to read it.  Now the Court may have ruled on this issue but it doesn't change the fact that since June 2001 and the end of March 2005 there have been over 103 taser related deaths in the U.S. and Canada and over 13 in the first quarter of this year compared to 6 in the first quarter last year so there is an issue with lethality here.    My issue isn't whether the officer has the right to use this force, my issue related to whether he used proper judgement in administering a potentially lethal force when:
1. The defendent did not appear to be resisting arrest
2. The defendent did not impose an immediate threat to the officer
3. The defendent did not attack the officer and
4. The officer administered a second shock after the defendent was already in custody and clearly not able to use her arms.

Now if I'm in any way mistake in the facts here and the officer was in any way attacked by the defendent, I'm fine with her tasing her. He just seemed a little quick on the trigger for the offense involved.  A little patience may have allowed the situation to have been diffused without the use of this force and may have saved the officer from a lawsuit from this defendent.

Police and all officials need to realize that the rights they have been given come from the citizenry and are subject to revocation if these rights are abused.


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## LarryWolfe (Jun 14, 2005)

Man did I create a great post or what???  This is getting into the caliber of "Where's Susan" post!  In the long run, nobody cared about either!


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## Greg Rempe (Jun 14, 2005)

The substance of the thread is still good...people are explaining themselves respectfully to others and are providing good info to justify their points and feeling...if you wish to continue, please do! =D>


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## Captain Morgan (Jun 14, 2005)

Well I'm proud to say I haven't read anything past first page...like you guys too much to listen to what you have to say!!!


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## DaleP (Jun 15, 2005)

As that Rodney the King  dude would say after getting his settlement, 
_Cant we all just get along._


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