# I seriously cannot grill a steak without destroying it!



## gingerlaurie (Mar 9, 2008)

I've got a beautiful new outdoor stainless steel kitchen.  Beautiful four-burner BBQ, and a separate grill.  Can I cook a steak without someone losing a tooth while eating it?  Nope.

I am VERY willing to hear techniques, tried-and-trues, any hints at all that will help.  I can grill almost ANYTHING else on the BBQ (lemon pizza, fruit, nachos, vegetables, etc).

Lake season is coming, and I'm looking to CONQUER THE STEAK STIGMA!

Please.  LOL.


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## GB (Mar 9, 2008)

You came to the right place. We can help you cook the perfect steak. Why don't you start by telling us, step by step, exactly how you do it now. We will then be able to suggest what you can do to improve your technique.


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## PastaKing (Mar 9, 2008)

click here: http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f48/how-do-you-cook-your-steak-43593.html


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## buckytom (Mar 10, 2008)

ginger, gb's right. it'd help if you told us what you actually do.

do you use a temperature probe, poke to feel the firmness, or just try to time it? those are pretty much the three ways you can tell if a steak is done.

more tips: make sure your grill is clean and very hot, and use a clump of paper towels to spread some oil on it just before putting the steak down.

ok, so, tell us whatsa happenin'...


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## Andy M. (Mar 10, 2008)

Also be sure to let us know what cuts of steak you are cooking.


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## Uncle Bob (Mar 10, 2008)

Andy M. said:


> Also be sure to let us know what cuts of steak you are cooking.


 

......And what Grade. As in USDA Choice or USDA Select...?


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## GrillingFool (Mar 10, 2008)

Get a thermometer and see how hot your grill is.
Then get a timer and time your steaks based on the heat reading.
Start with 3-4 minutes each side, depending on how you like them.

Very soon, you will know how long to cook them on each side.

Might not be as "cool" as poking them to know when they are done,
but they will be edible, LOL!


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Mar 10, 2008)

Cooking a steak isn't difficult if you know a couple of things.  First, you must know what cuts make good steaks.  They are many, but each requires a different method for cooking.  For instance, a flank steak produces a wonderful meal but should be cooked to no more than medium rare (very pink inside) and then sliced thin agains the grain and at an angle (on the bias).  By cutting against the grain, you take a fairly tough cut of meat and make it more tender.  A great bone-in rib steak needs to be cooked between rare and medium rare to allow teh full flavor of the meat to come through.  The meat should be well marbled with flecks of fat all over the place, but with few chunks of fat.  This insures that the meat will have full flavor and will be juciy and tender.  For a chcuk steak, look at the steak.  You will recognize three seperte muscles in this cut.  The largest of these offers the most tender eating.  The chuck is full flavored, but can be tough.  The smaller muscles should be cut away and researved for stews and such.

There are a host of beef cut charts available for free on the internet.  Simply type in Beef Charts on Google and you will find full color charts of the carcass telling which cuts come from where, and the best ways to cook them.

Also, know that in order of quality, in the U.S. are prime (don't worry, you won't find this at your local supermarket), Choice (the best you can get at your local supermarket), select (the lowest grade you should ever purchase), and down from there.  You usually won't find anything less than select grade at your local market.  Select is what you purchace when you want to grind your own ground beef.  It has larger chunks of fat and less marbling.  It is tougher, and less flavorfull than is Choice-grade.

As for technique, many of us have favorite techniques.  And there is no "perfect" way to cook a steak.  But the favored methods all share some basic principles.  These include cooking to the proper degree of doneness, avoid piercing a cooking steak, fiddle with the thing as little as possible, know your equipment.  Surprizingly, both gas and charcoal can give excellent results.  Often, people who have been given blind taste tests couldn't tell the difference.  I prefer a charcoal grill only because I can do things with it that I can't replicate on a gas grill.  But cooking steaks isn't one of them.

Tell us what cuts you will be cooking and we can give you a host of techniques that will give you great end results.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## mikki (Mar 10, 2008)

Ginger, do what I do. Get someone else to cook them. LOL I cna't grill to save my life.


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## buckytom (Mar 11, 2008)

Goodweed of the North said:


> Surprizingly, both gas and charcoal can give excellent results. Often, people who have been given blind taste tests couldn't tell the difference.


 
FENCE SITTER!!!!!!!


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## NAchef (Mar 11, 2008)

I get Prime at my local market. It all depends on your area and of course the market. 

I may have to go get a nice Ribeye on the way home tonight!


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## gingerlaurie (Mar 11, 2008)

Greetings, everyone!

Wow...thanks for the input!  I realize I didn't give my "technique" (if you can call it that..LOL) of grilling the steak....

I will vary between sirloin (my favourite), rib eye, and t-bone.  I've dallied with different cuts *hoping* to find that it's my CHOICE of meat that's the issue (not the person who's grilling it!).  No luck.

I do bring the meat out about half an hour or so before grilling, and season it.  I talked to a chef that makes THE best steaks I've ever had at a steakhouse, and he said to make a "butter rub" and smear it on the steak grill side down.  Butter and your choice of herbs.  It did taste better...but it's the texture I'm having the biggest problems with.

Have read some wild suggestions online...marinating in coffee.  Soya sauce.  Buttermilk.  

Where does a girl begin?  D


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## GB (Mar 11, 2008)

how do you cook your steaks gingerlaurie (rare, med rare, well done, etc)? That is something that will have a big affect on the texture.


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## buckytom (Mar 11, 2008)

ginger, try mashing 1/4 tsp of basil and just a pinch of dill in 2 or 3 tbsps of butter with a fork. my fave compound butter.


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## Jeekinz (Mar 11, 2008)

A 1" NY Strip (bone-in) cooked on medium to med-high, 3-4 minutes per side will turn out a medium steak. 

Let the steak warm to room temperature before grilling, usually takes 15-20 minutes. Preheat the grill. When you remove the steaks, let them sit covered for a minimum of 5 minutes.


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## gingerlaurie (Mar 11, 2008)

I'm growing up gradually, so I no longer like my meat "well done".  LOL!  

Medium well is where I'm at now...leaning towards medium.

I've remembered to "rest" the meat after grilling so the juices don't flow...buckytom, I've never thought of using dill!  Sounds wonderful!

Proper temperature is key, obviously, so Jeekinz, if I'm liking it medium well, how long per side at med-high heat...?  I have to admit that I like the "charcoal" edges...I'm one of those odd people that pretty much love oddly burned things...cookies, toast, etc.

As I said, I'm growing.  Up.  D

(Or at least I'm trying to!)


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## Jeekinz (Mar 11, 2008)

Start the steak on high heat, just before you flip it turn down the heat to med to med-high.  That will give you the burnt edges.  You really can't have that burnt edge on anything but a thicker steak otherwise it will be overcooked.

Oh yea, only flip the steak once.  And don't be poking and prodding it while it's cooking.  Use tongs. 

When you are able to cook to the desired temp, you can play around with grill marks and different fuels and techniques.


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## GrillingFool (Mar 11, 2008)

Remember that the steak will continue to cook while resting.....
Add that to your cooking time calculations.


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## Jeekinz (Mar 11, 2008)

I just thought of something. Since you like the charcoal flavor, why not pick up a small charcoal grill like a Weber Ketle or similar?  You can use wood lump charcoal or briquetts in it. Then you'll have the flavor you want without incinerating the steak. I use both gas and charcoal grills. Actually, I like the lighter fluid taste on my hotdogs....don't ask why, I just do. 

It really isn't as troublesome as people think, and usually takes the same amount of time as a gas grill to preheat.


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## GB (Mar 11, 2008)

Jeekinz said:


> It really isn't as troublesome as people think, and usually takes the same amount of time as a gas grill to preheat.


I have to disagree. I agree with the rest of your post Jeekinz and think your advice to the OP is good advice, however my gas grill is heated and ready in 5 minutes. I have never seen charcoal grills be ready that fast.


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## auntdot (Mar 11, 2008)

gl, sorry if I missed it but how thick are your steaks?

To me it is hard to essentially impossible to do a steak less than one inch thick to perfection.

If you have gotten to medium try one step rarer, medium rare. To me the closer the cow is to mooing the tastier the steak.

Don't use a thermometer on steak, OK rarely do, but they can be very helpful if you get a realiable thermometer.


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## Jeekinz (Mar 11, 2008)

GB said:


> I have to disagree. I agree with the rest of your post Jeekinz and think your advice to the OP is good advice, however my gas grill is heated and ready in 5 minutes. I have never seen charcoal grills be ready that fast.


 
Using lump not briquettes. It also depends on the grill size and weather conditions. My large SS grill can take 10-15 minutes to reach 350. I usually pull the steaks/meat from the fridge and start the charcoal in the chiney at the same time.  Maybe it's my scenario.


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## gingerlaurie (Mar 11, 2008)

Jeekinz, I've heard the "only flip once" rule.  A friend of mine is SUCH a follower...I am more of a "turn over and peek" kind of girl.  LOL.  I will have to practice restraint!  Is there anything one could put ON/IN the gas BBQ to achieve what the coals would do...?  I'm super-limited in space where it is.  But it sounds tempting..

Grillingfool, I never really considered the resting time as cooking time.  Great tip!!

Inch thick steaks are traditionally what I use.  Question, though...has anyone used any type of "tenderizer" on steaks/beef?  If so, what?


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## Jeekinz (Mar 11, 2008)

Not sure what you could add.....if there was such a thing, I would love to know about it.  Honestly, I would pick up a small charcoal grill and a bag of Cowboy lump from Lowe's and have a go at it.  I really think you would be happy with the results.

-Jay


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## pacanis (Mar 11, 2008)

I think grilling a steak requires a feel. You buy a new grill, you cook out at a friend's house on his grill, you use propane one time and a campfire the next..... I've never been a big follower of the, so many minutes per side and only flip once philosophy..... But that's just me. And I've boughten steaks in varying markets, in cities, in dink towns and never paid attention to the prime/choice/select rating, though I know I really should. I couldn't even tell you what the cuts of ribeye in my freezer are, as I purchased them from a meat market who grows and slaughters their own beef.
I know all these little nuances add up to the perfect steak, but ultimately, it's the person standing in front of the grill.

I wish I could go back and re-read your post, gingerlaurie, but I seem to remember you naming a few types of steaks and saying you preferred sirloin..... in my opinion, that isn't a very forgiving steak to cook. Not too much fat or marbling, so it will come out tough and dry if overcooked even slightly. I think you need to work on your technique as you said, but maybe try a different cut. If you don't want to splurge on a ribeye (my favorite ), only to have it turn out tough, look for something called a chuck eye steak, which are like small ribeyes, but pretty cost effective. They have some nice fat to add juiceiness and a pretty good flavor, even if cooked well done.

And even though it's taboo  while you are learning and getting a feel for you new SS outdoor kitchen, cut the steak open a bit and take a peek 
Why do you think they make some flippers with a serrated edge


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## buckytom (Mar 12, 2008)

auntdot, i've recently been able to cook some very thin steaks really well, umm, i mean actually rare to medium rare. 

i bought a gas grill last year with a searing burner. i wasn't sure i'd like giving up a standard burner and grill space for it, but the few times that i cooked thin steaks and pork chops on it made it all the worthwhile.
it's sorta looks like a rectangular catalytic converter, and burns very hot so if you time it right (about half or less of the time needed for 1" or bigger), it comes out to perfection. slight char on the outside, with the doneness gradiating inwards to rare. 

pacanis, i'm a flip 3x kinda guy, trying to get a matrix effect of grill marks on the steak. it's a little tricker not to overcook them with 2 flips per side


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## pacanis (Mar 12, 2008)

buckytom said:


> pacanis, i'm a flip 3x kinda guy, trying to get a matrix effect of grill marks on the steak. it's a little tricker not to overcook them with 2 flips per side


 
Hey, it just wouldn't be fun grillin' if all you are going to do is stand there and wait for your food to cook 
I don't own a spatula. I own a flipper!


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## GB (Mar 12, 2008)

pacanis said:


> Hey, it just wouldn't be fun grillin' if all you are going to do is stand there and wait for your food to cook


Well that is your problem. You are not just supposed to stand there and wait. You are supposed to stand there and drink beer


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## pacanis (Mar 12, 2008)

Oh that's a given, GB.
Gotta have something to fuss with with the other hand, though.


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## RPCookin (Mar 14, 2008)

gingerlaurie said:


> I'm growing up gradually, so I no longer like my meat "well done".  LOL!
> 
> Medium well is where I'm at now...leaning towards medium.
> 
> ...





I have to tell you that cut for cut, the longer you  grill a steak the less tender it will tend to be.  That is why most decent steakhouses won't guarantee a steak cooked beyond medium rare.  Some won't even offer a steak beyond that temp.  I never cook one to more than about a 135° internal reading while still on the grill.  It will continue to cook to about 140° while it rests, and that is just about medium rare.  It is very difficult to grill a steak to anything past medium and end up with a good piece of meat.  

I'm sure that some will contest this, but I've been grilling steaks for many years, and I've had my share of failures, most of those disasters came from overcooking.  When I invite someone over for a cookout, I usually ask how everyone likes their steaks.  If they say anything past medium, I plan something else for the main course.


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## west coast smoker (Mar 14, 2008)

*I Luv Steak*

Wow cooking a good steak past medium is going to make it tougher.    The longer you cook it the tighter the steak fibers get.  Also a 1" thick steak should not take to long to cook.  The biggest problem is gas burners are not all the same and some cook hotter than others.

Some one mentioned the time to cook to medium I think it was 3-4 minutes per side.  I would agree with them, also leave the grill on high for both sides, for that charcoal edge you like.  I found the more steaks I have cooked the better I have gotten at it, so experience counts.

My one rule is I would rather put an undercooked steak back on the grill rather than eat an overcooked steak.


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## gingerlaurie (Mar 15, 2008)

You all are making me feel like I should attempt a "medium rare" steak!  

I have a serious aversion to "bloody" meat...it has taken many years to even get me to medium well.  LOL.  

Maybe....maybe I'm searching for the impossible?  A lovely, tender, almost-cooked steak!  LOL.

I'll stick to chicken.


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## love2"Q" (Mar 15, 2008)

med rare is not bloody .. 
try marinating a london broil ..
cook to medium or a little more if you 
must .. then slice really thin against the grain ..
you will have a nice tender steak ..


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## GotGarlic (Mar 15, 2008)

gingerlaurie said:


> You all are making me feel like I should attempt a "medium rare" steak!
> 
> I have a serious aversion to "bloody" meat...it has taken many years to even get me to medium well.  LOL.
> 
> ...



Think of it as rosy, not bloody  It's the tenderness you're after ...


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## Fisher's Mom (Mar 15, 2008)

gingerlaurie said:


> You all are making me feel like I should attempt a "medium rare" steak!
> 
> I have a serious aversion to "bloody" meat...it has taken many years to even get me to medium well.  LOL.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't hold out too much hope for getting over your aversion. I have the same one. It's taken me forever to get to where I can eat a steak with _any_ "rosiness". And to even eat that, I have to make a red wine sauce to pour over it.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Mar 16, 2008)

I found two of the most gorgeous bone-in rib-steaks at a local meat shop yesterday.  They are perfectly marbles and dry aged to perfection.  Those babies are in the freezer, double wrapped in freezer paper, and then inside vacuum-sealed plastic bag.  They're waiting for that just right day of summer.  Hate to do this to all of you, but I'm not sharing these ones.  Just once in a while you gotta keep the best for yourself.  I've given great steaks to so many of my family at this cookout, or that get-together.  It's my turn, one for me, and one for my wife.  Everybody else gets what they get.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Wart (Mar 16, 2008)

gingerlaurie said:


> Medium well is where I'm at now...leaning towards medium.



We call this Twice Killed Meat.

Killed the first time by the 'butcher'.

Killed the second time by the 'cook' when taken to medium +.

A well done steak is called Thrice Killed.


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## ErikC (Mar 16, 2008)

The temperature at which you cook will be important too, especially when you take different thicknesses into account, and the intended doneness.

Thicker steaks require a lower heat, otherwise the outside is overcooked before you get any significant heat to the center. But even thinner steaks (half inch and less) still need to be cooked at a lower temperature than you might think. 

The general rule of thumb to follow is to be able to hold your hand just above the grill for 3 seconds for thin steaks (half inch), 4 seconds for 3/4 to 1 inch, and 5 seconds for thicker steaks before you have to pull your hand away due to the heat. If you cannot hold your hand there that long, then the grill is too hot.

Also, if you prefer your meat more toward the well-done end of the spectrum, then you need to add a second to each of those counts.


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## BBQ Mikey (Mar 16, 2008)

The best steak you can make is pan seared, 3-5 minutes per side.  On the grill is still classic as well, normally cooking 5 minutes on each side for a medium well on high heat.  This is what I would do with a normal 1.5" steak.  I also do not believe in marinading a steak unless its for fajitas or something of that nature.


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## Jeekinz (Mar 16, 2008)

love2"Q" said:


> med rare is not bloody


 
I disagree with that. Anything medium and on tends to not be bloody.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Mar 17, 2008)

BBQ Mikey said:


> The best steak you can make is pan seared, 3-5 minutes per side. On the grill is still classic as well, normally cooking 5 minutes on each side for a medium well on high heat. This is what I would do with a normal 1.5" steak. I also do not believe in marinading a steak unless its for fajitas or something of that nature.


 
I'm sorry, but your statement has bene bothering me.  Now don't get me wrong, I agree that a pan seared steak, cooked over relatively high heat for between 3 to 5 minutes per side, depending on the thickness, fat content, etc., makes a very good steak, there are others who prefer a steak that has been quickly seared and finished in the oven.  I love a grilled steak over charcoal.

My Dad used to say things like what you said, "Now your best this or that is this or that."  What he should have said was "In my opinion...", or "My favorite way of cooking this is...".

You just can't make blanket statements because everybody's tastes are different.  What is perfect for you may not be for someone else.  For instance, the best beverage to accompany steak is milk.

That statement is obviously not correct for everybody.  It is for me.  But others love a cold beer with steak, or a glass of wine, or maybe some kind of fruity drink.

Be careful any time you are tempted to say "The best ? is ?".  Often times, this will ellicit strong disagreements, even arguments.  Always realize that the best for you is the best for you, as far as your personal experience has shown you.  It may even be that sometime in the future, somebody might give you a steak prepared in a way that you have never heard of or imagined, and that you find absolutely incredible.  And again, I'm not attacking you.  I just have issues with absolute statements from anyone.  I have learned the hard way that there are very few absolutes in this life or universe.  It's always a good thing to keep an open mind.  That way, you are open to new knowledge and experience.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Jeekinz (Mar 17, 2008)

Goodweed of the North said:


> I'm sorry, but your statement has bene bothering me. Now don't get me wrong, I agree that a pan seared steak, cooked over relatively high heat for between 3 to 5 minutes per side, depending on the thickness, fat content, etc., makes a very good steak, there are others who prefer a steak that has been quickly seared and finished in the oven. I love a grilled steak over charcoal.
> 
> My Dad used to say things like what you said, "Now your best this or that is this or that." What he should have said was "In my opinion...", or "My favorite way of cooking this is...".
> 
> ...


 
Can I use that as my sig, or is it too long?


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Mar 17, 2008)

Jeekinz said:


> Can I use that as my sig, or is it too long?


 
now dont' get Bucky going on the length of my posts.  I'm not generally known for short posts.  Depending on how you look at it, it's a gift, or a curse.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Jeekinz (Mar 17, 2008)

Goodweed of the North said:


> now dont' get Bucky going on the length of my posts. I'm not generally known for short posts. Depending on how you look at it, it's a gift, or a curse.
> 
> Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


 
He has ADD.


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## GB (Mar 17, 2008)

Goodweed of the North said:


> I'm sorry, but your statement has bene bothering me.  Now don't get me wrong, I agree that a pan seared steak, cooked over relatively high heat for between 3 to 5 minutes per side, depending on the thickness, fat content, etc., makes a very good steak, there are others who prefer a steak that has been quickly seared and finished in the oven.  I love a grilled steak over charcoal.
> 
> My Dad used to say things like what you said, "Now your best this or that is this or that."  What he should have said was "In my opinion...", or "My favorite way of cooking this is...".
> 
> ...



When I read "The best" type statements like the one you are talking about GW, I always read it as if the "My opinion is" implied as it seems fairly obvious that with something subjective like taste there is no such that as "The best..." so by default it must be the persons opinion.


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## pacanis (Mar 17, 2008)

GB said:


> When I read "The best" type statements like the one you are talking about GW, I always read it as if the "My opinion is" implied as it seems fairly obvious that with something subjective like taste there is no such that as "The best..." so by default it must be the persons opinion.


 
When I read, "the best (steak) _you_ can make is....."
I read it as, "the best (steak) _I_ can make is......"


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## Wart (Mar 17, 2008)

Goodweed of the North said:


> I love a grilled steak over charcoal.



I'm sorry, but your statement has been bothering me.

Your steak is the liver in Portnoy's Complaint? While your 'loving' your steak do your feet get warm?



I too find the most enjoyable steaks are those which have been grilled over charcoal.

But I'm not loving them. 

Point taken?


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Mar 17, 2008)

Point is taken.  Believe me when I say that I wasn't trying to be disrespectful.  I was merely stating that there are those (it seems like me) that can and do misread written intent.  So, to be on the safe side, just use a qualifier.  Didn't mean to start a ruckus.  In fact, I was trying to help others avoid one.

Anyways, I get the point so I'll shut up now.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## love2"Q" (Mar 17, 2008)

It may just be me .. but the actual cooking of the steak over fire ..
with some potatoes wrapped in foil and some silver queen ready to go on 
is what eating a steak is about .. i never order steak when i go out ..
i to much enjoy the whole thing .. now if i can get it a perfect(for me) 
med rare .. great .. if not .. i have suffered through worse ..


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## pacanis (Mar 17, 2008)

mmmm, I can't wait until corn comes back in season again..... in July


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## Jeekinz (Mar 17, 2008)

love2"Q" said:


> It may just be me .. but the actual cooking of the steak over fire ..
> with some potatoes wrapped in foil and some silver queen ready to go on
> is what eating a steak is about .. i never order steak when i go out ..
> i to much enjoy the whole thing .. now if i can get it a perfect(for me)
> med rare .. great .. if not .. i have suffered through worse ..


 
A bad steak cooked at home is better than a good steak eating out. 


IMHO.  lol


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## love2"Q" (Mar 17, 2008)

Jeekinz said:


> A bad steak cooked at home is better than a good steak eating out.
> 
> 
> IMHO.  lol




I could not agree more ... not to mention ..
the look on DW face when she comes pon this wondering what 
she has entered into is great ...


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## buckytom (Mar 18, 2008)

Jeekinz said:


> A bad steak cooked at home is better than a good steak eating out.
> 
> 
> IMHO. lol


 

i couldn't disagree more, jeeks. restaurants often get the better cuts of meat. ones that you can't get at home, so a good steak in a restaurant is a treat. a great one can even make up for bad service.

add...


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## pacanis (Mar 18, 2008)

I'm with jeeks in this one.  My latitude is a lot more tolerant for how I like it done when I'm cooking it myself, or at a friend's for a barbeque and they're cooking it.
It's the whole spirit of the thing.

Although I must admit that on those rare occassions when I have ordered steak out, I was never disapointed.


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## GB (Mar 18, 2008)

A bad steak is a bad steak no matter where it is cooked. A great steak is a great steak no matter where it is cooked.


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## buckytom (Mar 18, 2008)

but is it better with msg and balsamic vinegar?


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## Wart (Mar 18, 2008)

buckytom said:


> i couldn't disagree more, jeeks. restaurants often get the better cuts of meat. ones that you can't get at home,




You can get those "cuts" at home. Just not from a box store. And you have to be ready to pay for it. By 'it' I mean the aging.

When I was a kid meat was transported in sides hanging in a reefer and stored in sides hanging in the butcher shop cooler. Granted it was not a 4 week aging but it was something more than meat stuck in a cyropack minutes after the cow is killed.

I've been thinking of aging some beef myself. Giving it a shot and seeing what happens.


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## buckytom (Mar 18, 2008)

wart, i'm too much of an el cheapo. i buy the best i can, but only on sale in the supermarket. occasionally from a butcher. i won't pay over 8 or 9 bucks a pound. at that point, i'll go to a place that specializes in steak.

there's a restaurant in the 50's near 5th ave (i'm not exactly sure of the block) that i go past on my way over to our morning news studio that has a small window from the street looking into their meat aging room. it makes me so hungry for a hunk of bloody meat every time i skate by that i have to stop and look in.
the sidewalk there is always slippery with drool...


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## Wart (Mar 18, 2008)

buckytom said:


> wart, i'm too much of an el cheapo.



I have no idea what you mean. 




> occasionally from a butcher. i won't pay over 8 or 9 bucks a pound. ...



My butcher sells aged beef .... $20 a pound.

Thinking of paying that much just gave me a chill.

I figure I can get a tenderloin and age it myself with an overall cost of $12~$15 a pound. Some day.  



> has a small window from the street looking into their meat aging room.



Does this window have bars?

Is it big enough to crawl through?


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Mar 18, 2008)

We have a few local meat growers in our area that produce very good beef.  Next year, I'm just going to have to break down and purchase a quarter cow.  The last time I did that, I had most of the meat cut into steaks.  It didn't matter whether it was from the tenderloind, or the heel, it all sold for $1.50 per pound.  And the flavor and quality was High-end USDA choice, or maybe even prime.  We have no USDA inspectors around her, but I know it beat anything I could purchase from a supermarket hands down.

In San Diego area (El Cajon, and Santee to be exact), there are a couple of meat markets run by an outfit called Iowa Meat Farms Outlet.  The meat there, at least when I lived there, was outstanding and near the same price as in the supermarkets.  Every time I visit my In-Laws in El Cajon, we stop by there and get some beef.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Rob Babcock (Mar 19, 2008)

Proper aging isn't just buy meat, tossing it in the fridge, marking your calendar & pulling it out in 4 weeks!  Meat must be dry aged, at the appropriate temp & humitidy.  Modern dry aged beef is aged while subjected to UV light to kill bacteria on the surface of the meat.  Yeah, you can get some of this at home (water evaporating from dry aged beef intensifies the flavor- the UV is a safety issue that has nothing to do with flavor, but safety is no joke...) it's not easy to get the kind of air circulation in your 'fridge as a locker gets.

As for cooking method, it's obviously subjective.  That said, culinary legend James Beard conducted a series of experiments that showed the sauteed steak was preferred by the majority of people vs other methods.  Appropos of nothing, I suppose, since opinions are like...belly buttons!


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## GB (Mar 19, 2008)

Thanks for posting that Rob. I came in here to post much of the same although I did not know about the UV light. I am glad to have learned that now.

Proper aging can not easily be done at home. Your home fridge is just not equipped to do it right.


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## Wart (Mar 19, 2008)

Rob Babcock said:


> Proper aging isn't just buy meat, tossing it in the fridge, marking your calendar & pulling it out in 4 weeks!




I know.

If it were that simple I would have already done it.


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## AllenOK (Mar 19, 2008)

I bet, if I were to mount a UV light in the meat box at work, we could try to dry-age some beef.

But, our menu states that we buy Creekstone aged beef, so we probably couldn't deviate from that.

Maybe I should just break down and buy a couple tenders from the club (at cost), take them home, peel and cut them myself.


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## Wart (Mar 20, 2008)

A while back a piece of steak got stored 'improperly' in the fridge for a couple of days. It looked a little dried out. I thought, Suppose to be good for up to a week at these temperatures, hasn't been near that long (about three days), doesn't smell bad, Darn I'm hungry ....

It was the best piece of box store steak I ever had.

Mayhaps I'm lucky to not have gotten the runs, or whatever, and have been tempted to try it again. 

But I know enough to know I need to know more before I exceed time and temp storage guidelines.

If I didn't know I needed to know more I could probably get away with it. LOL!


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## RPCookin (Mar 26, 2008)

I grilled a pair of nice 1-1/4" thick ribeyes tonight, and they were NOT bloody.  They were juicy and tender and cooked to a perfect medium rare.  On my Weber Genesis gas grill, that means 4 minutes on each side at high direct, then 2-3 more minutes on high indirect (I turn off the middle burner).  Rest for 5 minutes, and enjoy.  Before grilling, I lightly brush them with EV olive oil, then dust with freshly ground black pepper.

They were excellent steaks, yet they were relatively (for today's beef prices) inexpensive at $6.49 per pound, bought at Sam's club, and frozen for about a month (tightly wrapped in plastic wrap and then sealed individually in 1 quart Ziplock freezer bags)

There is a difference between bloody and juicy.   My steaks do not have any raw left in the center, thus no blood.  It took a few years, but I trained my stepfather out of well done steaks, and now he wouldn't consider anything but medium rare.


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## Rob Babcock (Mar 28, 2008)

Wart said:


> A while back a piece of steak got stored 'improperly' in the fridge for a couple of days. It looked a little dried out. I thought, Suppose to be good for up to a week at these temperatures, hasn't been near that long (about three days), doesn't smell bad, Darn I'm hungry ....
> 
> It was the best piece of box store steak I ever had.
> 
> ...



One of the best steak I've ever had was a T-bone that was completey _green_!  Yeah, any sane person would have thrown it away, but I used a sharp knive to cut away all the moldy looking gunk.  There's absolutely no way I've have ever served that peice of meat to anyone else but I was willing to risk it for myself (as I _think_ I'm nearly immune to all common forms of food poisoning*).


*  Yeah, I realize no one is "immune"- but I haven't had a stomach flu nor anything remotely resembling food poisoning since 1984, and not for lack of exposure.  I've eat hundreds of pounds of medium rare pork, thousands of over-easy eggs and untold pounds of MR-Med burgers.  Maybe someday it'll catch up with me but it hasn't for decades!


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## Jeekinz (Mar 28, 2008)

Sounds appetizing.......


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## Rob Babcock (Mar 30, 2008)

It might sound gross but it was a wickedly tasty steak!


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## AllenOK (Mar 30, 2008)

Escoffier mentioned in his cookbook that meat was to be hanged and seasoned until it was "high" or "seasoned".  Usually, this meant that it was starting to become somewhat spoiled.

Did you ever watch _Shogun_?  Richard Chamberlin killed a partridge in one eppy, and hung it up to "season".  He said you were supposed to "hang it by the neck until the head fell off."  Sounds to me like they were letting the meat spoil slightly.  LOL, in that eppy, the shamuri in charge of that village ended up cutting down the bird after a couple of days, as the smell offended him.


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## john a (Mar 31, 2008)

*Did this Sirloin Sat night. I rubbed it with olive oil and sprinkled a generous amount of kosher salt, garlic salt and ground black pepper then let it sit at room temperature for one hour. I get the Weber as hot as possible then throw a couple of pieces of thick sliced bacon on with the steak. About three minutes a side then inside to rest for five minutes.*


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## Quint (May 21, 2008)

Nice looking steak John but, for my taste the outside isn't seared, burnt, crispy, however you want to call it, enough. I love a nice medium rear steak thats nice and charcoaled on the outside almost Pittsburg style. Thats the challenge for me when grilling trying to get that nice burnt outside but not over cooking the middle. 

Oh and hello to everyone. Newbie from Massachusetts here. Resident BBQ/grilling weekend warrier/hacker.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (May 21, 2008)

For me, the steak looks perfect.  Since I too have a Weber Kettle grill/BBQ, I know just what flavor you achieved.  Yummy!.  For an added treat, while gilling the steaks, drizzle some EVOO on portabella mushroom caps, gill side, and grill them alongside the steaks.

Another trick is to grill them with the lid on.  This causes more smoke particle deposition on the meat, giving it a smokier flavor.

But again, your steaks look perfect to me.

And for you Quint, the only way I know to get that blackened outside without overcooking the inside is to put extra fat on the fire, litterally.  As it drips and flares, the very hot flames will char the outside fast.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## GB (May 21, 2008)

Another way to do it Goodweed and Quint, is to start with a very cold steak. Normally we let steak come to room temp before grilling, but if you want a dark outside and a rare inside then get your fire real hot and put a cold steak on the grill. You could even partially freeze the steak first.


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## Jeekinz (May 21, 2008)

A hot grill and thick steak works the best.

A problem with newer propane grills is most of them have some sort of flame tamer which decreases the browning....or what's properly known as the Maillard Effect.


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## buckytom (May 21, 2008)

i wonder if maillard used sunscreen very often? 

when i caved and bought a propane grill, one of the features that i made sure it had was a searing burner. they are fantastic. i use it for blackening peppers; with shrimp and other small fish or veggies in my grill wok; and anything else that requires a hot, direct flame. i've even been able to make really thin, 1/4" steaks medium rare with decent browning on the surface.

it sorta looks like a rectangular catalytic converter where one of the burner/flame tamers should be, with a blue flame across the entire surface.


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## kitchenelf (May 21, 2008)

GB said:


> Another way to do it Goodweed and Quint, is to start with a very cold steak. Normally we let steak come to room temp before grilling, but if you want a dark outside and a rare inside then get your fire real hot and put a cold steak on the grill. You could even partially freeze the steak first.



Bingo!  I love a very rare steak with a *cold* center BUT a nicely browned outer surface.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (May 22, 2008)

I wonder why I don't have silly, diaganol, dark stripes accross my body, 'cause I get grilled every day by my boss, or his boss, or some other person who knows nothing about what they are supposed to know about.

Seeeeeeee; Goodweed of the North


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## blissful (May 22, 2008)

ha ha, so many funny posts about grilling, thank you for that!

Dry aged? You know when I learned something (i actually learned something )  about how the difficulty with grilling meat was the problem of the 'wetness' of the steak.
I watched a show on browning a steak and how the wetness had to be dealt with before it would brown, or show grill marks. So the 'dry aged' thing, will be an advantage prior to pan frying/grilling.
With a venison steak (ya, no fat to forgive the poor methods of cooking), put the steaks on a baking pan and DRY the steak at 295°F for 20 minutes until it reaches an internal temperature of 95°F (now you are on a roll, it will keep cooking). During that time you should have the grill on so it's really hot! Then put it on the grill and give it marks (this should be easy because it is dry and will mark easily), a minute here and there. Once it is cooked 2 or 3 millimeters deep and it has nice grill marks, let it sit on a plate (yes it continues to cook!). After 10 minutes the internal temperature reaches 135 to 140°F . Time to serve, a medium rare steak with grill marks, awesome. The venison was really good. 
~Bliss


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## jdang307 (Jun 3, 2008)

Hi. If you're still looking for a fairly foolproof way to make a steak, why don't you give my method a try? I actually combined two methods I came across, and the result is tender flavorful steak.

You will need a probe, one of those polder ones is best. The instant reads are ok, but you got to keep checking. Start off with the best steaks you can, Prime, choice etc. Look for marbling. You mentioned the right cuts, tbones, porters, ribeyes, strips.

First step is to salt your steak, one hour prior to cooking. Yes, one hour. To read more google Jadens Steamy Kitchen Salt Steak. yeah I can't post urls yet.
I actually do not put as much as that blogger does. I salt my steaks good, but only as much as I normally would anyway, I don't put a ton of salt then rinse later. I salt, then wait. What happens is the salt draws out moisture from the steaks. Then the moisture dissolves the salt and then after that, the meat draws back in this salt water. Makes for flavorful and tender meat. So after that hour, if it's dripping wet still, you can pat dry or just apply whatever seasonings you want. Lots of black pepper, maybe a tiny bit of garlic powder etc.

Ok, preheat your oven to 275F or your grill to roughly the same temp (lid closed after you light). Insert your temp probe in the middle of the steak (if your steak has a bone, I find putting it a bit closer to the bone is better than middle). If using an oven, place the steak on a cooling rack over a half cookie sheet, or improvise as best you can. You want it to be open below the steak. If you have a grill, just put it on the grates, over burners that are not on. Let the steaks come up to temp. You say you like medium? 100-105F is what you're looking for. If you like medium rare (please try it!) 90-95F. When the temp is approaching your target, preheat the grill if you're not using it already. You want it to be fairly hot, but not hottest. Medium hot is good (you can use a cast iron skillet here). If you are using the grill for the preheat then you have to take the steak out, tent it with foil, and get the grill hot as fast as you can. You want to be quick. Ok, once the steak hits around 100F, pull the steak (from oven or grill) and transfer to the medium-hot grill. Cook on each side for no more than 2-2.5 minutes each side. I guess since you don't mind more cooked meat, you won't worry too much if it overcooks, and if it undercooks just throw them back on.

You should have something close to medium. You may have to adjust several things after your first shot. And it seems like a complicated process but it's not. It's just a pre-salt, then a reverse sear. Both methods well documented at Cooks Illustrated. The presalt seasons and apparently tenderizes the meat. The preheat before sear does two things, dries out the surface of the meat (good for not wasting heat and improve searing/browning), and finally, the 1/2 hour cook time allows enzymes to work in overdrive to break down the meat. CI called them cathespins I think. It allows for an abbreviated aging process so to speak, in the oven, in 30 minutes. They tested a reverse sear with a regular sear then finish in the oven, and noted the difference greatly. They even recommend taking the steak from the fridge right to the oven, as it allows the enzymes to work longer. I don't always but I have. Oh yeah, your thick steak (get it thick!) will have only a very thin gray section in the steak, none of that thick band of gray we all hate.


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## pmacino (Jun 17, 2008)

To the OP, if you are still struggling, I might be able to help you through with a different approach than the good ones already mentioned.

The one method I haven't seen mentioned yet, is cooking by "feel". As a general approximation, for a 1" steak you should plan on about 7-8 minutes per side for medium well. Remember this is an approximation.

- First, get your grill nice and hot somewhere in the 600-700 degree range. If you don't have a grill cover thermometer, you might want to invest in a solution.

-Second, season your steak with liberal salt and pepper. My preference is Diamond Crystal Kosher salt and fresh ground pepper...black and white mixed..make sure to work it into the meat, otherwise, it will just fall off.

- Third, as you have been told, you can brush a coat of butter or olive oil on the steak. I usually add roasted garlic, onion powder, and some Lea and Perrins Worcestershire Sauce to my butter..you can add whatever you want...that's the fun part in my opinion

- Fourth, as mentioned, limit your flipping to once per side. Once you become more comfortable and gain confidence, you can rotate the steak 75 degrees or so and get the nice "diamond" sear.

- Here is where I go down a different path, and it's how I cook. Test "or feel" for firmness. Steak will give you a lot of clues..firmness is a great one. All you need to do is poke (don't puncture) the center...tongs will even work. 

Rules of thumb

Rare - Seared...Should feel "fleshlike", no rebound
Medium Rare - Seared...Fleshlike with a little rebound
Medium Seared - touch of firmness
Medium Well - Seared - little give
Well - Seared..no give

Baste with your butter sauce while over high heat. The meat will take in the flavor and excite some flare ups to give you a little more crust.

The key to get your "char" is a high heat. The key to tenderness is letting it rest for 5-8 minutes. Cooking on high heat causes the muscle tissue to go through a lot of stress.


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