# Your dental reports...anyone else detest it as much as I?



## LEFSElover (Jan 8, 2008)

went AGAIN today.
I swear, if they don't hurt you, you really didn't have service or go to the dentist.
the girl that was removing the cement in between the new crown and the other tooth, stuck me with her instrument, it KILLED.

okay, I'm done complaining for now.
oh please, someone, let me know you detest these awful folks too.
I'm sorry, I'm usually so nice


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## jeninga75 (Jan 8, 2008)

I haven't been to the dentist in 6 years since I got out of the Army.  They make you go every 6 months.  That should tell you how I feel about the dentist...  Sorry you had a bad experience.


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## Katie H (Jan 8, 2008)

Sorry, LEFSE, that you had an uncomfortable experience.  I've been fortunate the last 30+ years.  My dentists/their staff have all been awesome when it comes to my comfort.  Even when I had to have several root canals, I really didn't have much pain.

My first dentist was a female, who later became a good friend, and our current dentist is wonderful and also a friend.  Maybe it's the "friend" thing that makes it work.


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## Robo410 (Jan 8, 2008)

dentist, periodontist, and orthodontist ... I'm fine with it all ... and keeping all my teeth

(undergoing braces in my 50s believe it or not, and no it doesn't make you look or feel young)


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## larry_stewart (Jan 8, 2008)

Ahhhh, so this is what my patients say behind my back


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## jpmcgrew (Jan 8, 2008)

I appreciate the dentist I just wish they were not so expensive.


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## Callisto in NC (Jan 8, 2008)

I hate the dentist.  I went to get an evaluation ~ I had been without insurance for several years.  They wanted $5,000 up front before working on me.  I hate dentists.  I have no credit and can't finance the $5,000.  I miss the old days where dentists trusted you to pay your debt and that insurance would cover the rest.  

I'm already scared to death of the dentist, I was nearly drowned by one when I was 12 (funky rubber thing over my mouth to isolate a tooth, couldn't swallow) and I'm scared to death.  Telling me "pay me $5000 and I'll help you or get out" hasn't helped my fears.  

I really need to win the lottery so I can get my teeth fixed.


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## auntdot (Jan 8, 2008)

We found the best dentists, a husband and wife team about 12 years ago.

He pulled my impacted wisdom teeth under local in about 45 minutes.  No pain either during or after.

They have done many things to out mouths and they are great.

Have generally had great caring dentists.


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## pdswife (Jan 8, 2008)

I have the dentist numb me up before a cleaning!
I hate pain.
I hate the dentist ( sorry Larry)
I hate fingers in my mouth.
YUCK!


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## Callisto in NC (Jan 8, 2008)

larry_stewart said:


> Ahhhh, so this is what my patients say behind my back


Sorry Larry.  Truly nothing personal.


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## expatgirl (Jan 8, 2008)

My dentist got so mad at me from my last visit as I kept trying to close my mouth and he had to get into a small space to work......I wasn't even aware of it.......he actually had to leave the room and go and work on another patient he was so frustrated with me closing my mouth.........  I had a sore jaw for 2 days afterwards from trying to concentrate on keeping my mouth opened.  Then when I went back a few days ago and told him that I had TMJ syndrome (temporal manibular jaw)he was far more understanding.  Though it was written in my records.  Oh, well, it's all over and my dental problem is finally corrected.


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## college_cook (Jan 9, 2008)

It's really unfortunate that the hygienists aren't as skilled as the dentists.  I've had 3 different dentists in my life, and I really think the key might be to just keep trying new offices until you find a great one.  Mine happens to be exceptional, very skilled hygienists and the dentist himself is a huge proponent of using and implementing the newest and best dental technologies.  I swear every time I go in he's got a way to make the process quicker, less uncomfortable, and higher-quality.  He's in Schererville, IN, and even though I've been in Bloomington for school for the past 5-ish years, I still drive the 200 miles twice a year to see him.


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## larry_stewart (Jan 9, 2008)

Its ok guys, how about looking at the optimistic  view of my profession.

We are responsible for fixing and keeping your mouths in perfect working condition to allow you to eat all the wonderful things you learned to make here  at the DC forum 

Sure it comes at a price, but im sure all your wonderful meals are worth it


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## licia (Jan 9, 2008)

Put me down as another who hates going to the dentist. The dentist and hygenist are both really good, but I have such a strong gag reflex that I'm usually almost sick when I come out.  We have new insurance this year so there is no telling what will be paid or not to a dentist.


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## Gossie (Jan 9, 2008)

My last experience with a dentist was about ten years ago.  I was in pain for a week after, and all I had gone for was a cleaning.  Right now, I've had a bad toothache for approximately 3 wks and will not go to the dentist.  One reason being that I don't have insurance, but it's mostly because of the last dentist visit.


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## mikki (Jan 9, 2008)

I don't hate dentist, but it bugs me that I've had one for 7 years my insurance covered everything except 25$ now that I lost my job and had to switch to Hubbys insurance I have to pay 80% of everything so now I won't be going.
The one thing I don't understand is if you go to dr and dentist that excepts your insurance(should except all insurance) they will except what the insurance pays as payment in full ( which is considerabley less) And if you don't hve any insurance they wont take anything less then what they are charging you. I think the insurance companies should pay the full amout also or switch it and those who do not have insurance should get discounts.


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## LEFSElover (Jan 9, 2008)

Katie E said:


> Sorry, LEFSE, that you had an uncomfortable experience. I've been fortunate the last 30+ years. My dentists/their staff have all been awesome when it comes to my comfort. Even when I had to have several root canals, I really didn't have much pain.
> 
> My first dentist was a female, who later became a good friend, and our current dentist is wonderful and also a friend. Maybe it's the "friend" thing that makes it work.


let's see, do they take new patients?lucky you.....................I'm envious, why do they not care about a patients comfort is my question?


auntdot said:


> We found the best dentists, a husband and wife team about 12 years ago.He pulled my impacted wisdom teeth under local in about 45 minutes. No pain either during or after.They have done many things to out mouths and they are great.Have generally had great caring dentists.


AuntDot, I don't see where you live? how'm I supposed to make an apt?
And Larry, I don't notice you offering to help this poor girls mouth out either. I'm waiting for an offer pleaseFYI, I have access to NY..........


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## jabbur (Jan 9, 2008)

My dentist is good but I still don't particularly like people mucking around in my mouth.  My big complaint is the cost.  Most insurance companies dont pay that much of the bill and at one point I was stuck with nearly $1000 of dental bills for my family even with insurance!  I've had the same dentist for about 25 years now.


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## Mel! (Jan 9, 2008)

Yes, I detest them. 
I hate the way my dentist taps on my front teeth with his instrument for no apparent reason whenever he is finished doing anything.

Mel


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## LEFSElover (Jan 9, 2008)

larry_stewart said:


> Ahhhh, so this is what my patients say behind my back


my dentist of yesteryear and I got to be very good friends.  he never hurt me but every time I'd go into his office for work to be done, I'd tell him I hated him.  he put up with it for years, knowing it was silliness and nerves speaking.  one day he said, "you know what?  that hurts my feelings.  every day people walk into my office and say, I hate you. how would you feel if eveyone in every single day walked up to you and told you that hated you?" gad, I felt awful and apologized.
Larry, if I come to you, will you change my mind about dentists?
How necessary is it for them not to care that they continually hurt you?
I had braces.  Not that bad.  I've had root canals that were a piece of cake, like the last one, 6 minutes and root out. What gives?  Gad, if it's not in a person to have compassion, why are they in the business?  And why do they hire folks that couldn't care less about being rough?  aRgggggh


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## sage™ (Jan 9, 2008)

If you don't have insurance and are tight for money..try going to a Dental school  for your work..Usually you only have to pay for materials and you get the latest techniques and very through care. Thats what I did when my son needed braces years ago..think I only paid about $2000.(or less) for over 3 years of care.


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## CharlieD (Jan 9, 2008)

Don't even go there I have terible teethand and bad gums, even cleaning I have to do every 3 month...


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## expatgirl (Jan 9, 2008)

My son and d-i-l did just what you suggested, Sage, as they don't have insurance and were quite happy with the dental school.  As long as you don't have an immediate emergency (it does take awhile to get an apptmt.) they got very good care and everything was supervised..........


By way, I do like my dentist's office---everyone is very friendly and he has chairs with massagers, and they offer warm neck wraps as well.......he just was having a bad day with me  constantly closing my mouth on him and was afraid he'd damage the cracked tooth....after he realized that TMJ syndrome was involved he was far more understanding on the next trip....no, I wouldn't trade my dentist for anyone and he's 35ish young so he'll hopefully be around for a long time........Ha!


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## Callisto in NC (Jan 9, 2008)

In general I don't mind the dentists, it's generally the snotty staff that look at you like you're green when you tell them "You told me it would be $X and that's all I have, bill me for the rest."  I have this theory, if the mechanic with the high school education knows enough to not work on my car without my approval on the repairs, why don't the college educated dentists?  AND why should I pay for optional services they've done without telling me knowing insurance won't cover them?  They did some "pulp cap" on my daughter and didn't warn me, didn't ask me, just did it and the insurance didn't cover it.  How is that MY fault?


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## larry_stewart (Jan 9, 2008)

Well, first things first.  The best way to select a dentist , as with many other things , is by recommendations from a friend, relative or someone who u know and trust,  Not by 1-800 -dentist ( a paid service by dentists, about $2000 a month) or from and insurance list ( dentist willing to sign on to a plan and receive crappy prices in exchange for volume of patients.  Sure, you can coordinate the two.  When I have had patients whose insurance changed, and they were no longer willing to come to our practice, I told them to bring in the insurance list and I would see if there was anyone that i would, or more importantly wouldnt recommend for them to see.

As far as dentists continuously hurting people ( their patients) , remember , a tooth is alive , and so is he patient.  Therefore, it is a surgery that is being performed which, in other medical fields, you are often under sedation while the procedure is being performed.  Now, including my office, sedation is offered, and sure, for an extra fee, you can be ' knocked out' while we perform all procedures, including the ' poking with a sharp instrument' ' scraping and scaling' along with everything else.

As far as the procedures being performed without telling in advance, sure , that doesnt make sense in most cases.  Sure, we are selling our services, and you should be aware of what is being done ahead of time, and what the insurance is ' expected ' to pay, although, without sending things in for pre-approval, it is impossible to guarantee that the service will be covered, and also, the maximum of your benefits must be considered as well.  On the other hand, there are some procedures that may not be predictable, in the case of the ' pulp cap'  When a deep filling is performed , we know it is deep, but have no idea exactly how close it is to the nerve until the procedure is underway.  Once the nerve is exposed, doesnt leave too many options Pulp cap or extraction.  SO even if the initial intent was to do do a filling, if the cavity was too deep, gotta do what you gotta do.  I know I will tell my patients that the filling is deep ahead of time, and there is risk of nerve exposure and what the options are if that happens. Often the patient will say ' just put a filling in it' and that they dont want the root canal.  But, this isnt a realistic option.  All the decay must be removed.  If not, there will be nerve involvement anyway.  So better do it at a predictable time, then wait for the unexpected thanks giving, christmas , new years ... toothache, when no one is open, and your stuck waiting in the emergency room for 4 hours just to get some antibiotics, pain meds and possible a shot of anesthetic.

Finally, although not all cases, many reasons people come to the dentist only when they have a toothache, so a simple problem that may have existed a few years ago, now is a root canal or extraction.  Sure, much of this happens due to bad experiences. And I know there are phobia's.  But the truth is, coming the 2 times a year for the check up, x-rays and cleaning will save a lot of money, and a lot of fearful, painful visits.  A filling is about $150 +/- ,  if neglected, 1 or 2 years later, it is a Root canal, post  and crown which is about $1500.  

People have no problems bringing their cars in for the oil changes, replacing brakes and tires to service everyday wear and tear.  Remember that we eat several times a day, every day.  Years ago, average age of humans was 30 -40.  now its about 70 - 80 , so we are asking a lot from our teeth.  Need to maintain them, just as we do our cars.  Sure it is uncomfortable, sometimes painful, and fearful.  Sure, there are a bunch of quacks out there.  My suggestion is, as mentioned earlier, find out from someone who u trust, who they use.  Go for a consult first.  Ask for a tour of the office or to meet the staff.  Check for cleanliness.  Bring a list of questions.  Hopefully this will bring better experiences .

Hey, I did this all on my day off!!!!!  How about we talk some food   I like that topic better .


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## Barb L. (Jan 9, 2008)

Thanks Larry, you sure made a lot of sense.   I happen to love my Dentist- because he has never hurt me !!  He is also up on everything new, just a great guy.  I used to be so afraid - no more - he knows how to give novocain !! Correctly !!!  God Bless good Dentist !!


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## larry_stewart (Jan 9, 2008)

Well, to be perfectly honest, My graduating class was about 110 dentists, and realistically, i would only trust about 5 of them to do work on me 

And when I go to the doctors office,  I always pay attention to how im treated there, from the very first phone call, to the front desk, to the nurse who walks me back .....  and i compare it to how my staff treats our patients.  It amazes me how rude, uncaring, unfriendly the staff could be sometimes.  It is situations like that which make me appreciate my staff even more.

Also, about telling the dentist you hate them or things like that, dont worry.  I hear it at least once a day, probably even more.  The second most popular complaint is the sound of the drill, then the taste of the anesthesia..... the list goes on and on.  Its just part of the job.  I never get offended.


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## jpmcgrew (Jan 9, 2008)

larry_stewart said:


> Well, to be perfectly honest, My graduating class was about 110 dentists, and realistically, i would only trust about 5 of them to do work on me
> 
> And when I go to the doctors office, I always pay attention to how im treated there, from the very first phone call, to the front desk, to the nurse who walks me back ..... and i compare it to how my staff treats our patients. It amazes me how rude, uncaring, unfriendly the staff could be sometimes. It is situations like that which make me appreciate my staff even more.
> 
> Also, about telling the dentist you hate them or things like that, dont worry. I hear it at least once a day, probably even more. The second most popular complaint is the sound of the drill, then the taste of the anesthesia..... the list goes on and on. Its just part of the job. I never get offended.


Larry, I have never had a problem with a dentist I had to get quite a bit of work when I was older due to to neglect as a child.Im glad they do what they do. Americans have the best teeth in the world and I have always wanted my teeth to stay nice I was lucky my teeth grew in straight and and the work I had done was could have been worse except I was lucky to have good teeth to begin with.But I hafto say I dont care for a dentist that doesn't take the time to get the novacaine in carefully, as long as Im numb you can do what you want as I would like to keep my teeth as long as possible. Dentists can perform miracles in my eyes I've seen what they can do on tv totally amazing.All I wish is that I had a dentist as a relative and a lawyer and a CPA and a doctor and a and a


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## Callisto in NC (Jan 9, 2008)

larry_stewart said:


> As far as the procedures being performed without telling in advance, sure , that doesnt make sense in most cases.  *Sure, we are selling our services*, and you should be aware of what is being done ahead of time, and what the insurance is ' expected ' to pay, although, without sending things in for pre-approval, it is impossible to guarantee that the service will be covered, and also, the maximum of your benefits must be considered as well.  On the other hand, there are some procedures that may not be predictable, in the case of the ' pulp cap'  When a deep filling is performed , we know it is deep, but have no idea exactly how close it is to the nerve until the procedure is underway.  Once the nerve is exposed, doesnt leave too many options Pulp cap or extraction.  SO even if the initial intent was to do do a filling, if the cavity was too deep, gotta do what you gotta do.  I know I will tell my patients that the filling is deep ahead of time, and there is risk of nerve exposure and what the options are if that happens. Often the patient will say ' just put a filling in it' and that they dont want the root canal.  But, this isnt a realistic option.  All the decay must be removed.  If not, there will be nerve involvement anyway.  So better do it at a predictable time, then wait for the unexpected thanks giving, christmas , new years ... toothache, when no one is open, and your stuck waiting in the emergency room for 4 hours just to get some antibiotics, pain meds and possible a shot of anesthetic.


Regarding this in general.....in all fairness if you have a patient that says "what is it going to cost?  I NEED to know before I come because I only have enough to cover what you tell me in advance, I need to know exactly" (I was very, very clear I was bringing cash and funds were tight) and THEN to be told "well, we did this without telling you before hand, it'll be an additional $50" and for them to give me attitude is just unacceptable.  They were told 3 times before the appointment that I would only have the amount they told me.  They knew the score.  Then they gave me attitude because I brought what they told me to and they didn't bother to warn me there could be additional charges or even ask me what I wanted.  Truth be told, with my insurance the root canal would have been cheaper because they pay for those but not pulp caps.  Oh, and never tell a dental office person that "even a mechanic tells you what they are doing before expecting payment for addition work."  It doesn't fly well.  

Now about that "sell our services" comment.  If y'all "sell your services" why can't I get the teeth up front fixed first and use my insurance for the front teeth that others see and would help my self esteem?  Why do I have to do things in their order?  It's my mouth, my money.  My back tooth has been a stump for years, fix the front one that just broke so it doesn't get worse and I can smile without lowering my head.  Why is that?  Why can't I get what I want fixed?  Huh?   I'm curious!!


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## jpmcgrew (Jan 9, 2008)

Callisto in NC said:


> Regarding this in general.....in all fairness if you have a patient that says "what is it going to cost? I NEED to know before I come because I only have enough to cover what you tell me in advance, I need to know exactly" (I was very, very clear I was bringing cash and funds were tight) and THEN to be told "well, we did this without telling you before hand, it'll be an additional $50" and for them to give me attitude is just unacceptable. They were told 3 times before the appointment that I would only have the amount they told me. They knew the score. Then they gave me attitude because I brought what they told me to and they didn't bother to warn me there could be additional charges or even ask me what I wanted. Truth be told, with my insurance the root canal would have been cheaper because they pay for those but not pulp caps. Oh, and never tell a dental office person that "even a mechanic tells you what they are doing before expecting payment for addition work." It doesn't fly well.
> 
> Now about that "sell our services" comment. If y'all "sell your services" why can't I get the teeth up front fixed first and use my insurance for the front teeth that others see and would help my self esteem? Why do I have to do things in their order? It's my mouth, my money. My back tooth has been a stump for years, fix the front one that just broke so it doesn't get worse and I can smile without lowering my head. Why is that? Why can't I get what I want fixed? Huh? I'm curious!!


I think thats because the dentist wants to address the more worse tooth first the back teeth need it because more bacteria is back there and it gets worse quick the front teeth are cosmetic unless its another issue. You really dont want to lose any of your back or side teeth if you do then you get a domino effect where all your teeth start falling sideways as the missing tooth is not there to hold the all the other teeth together.


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## Callisto in NC (Jan 9, 2008)

jpmcgrew said:


> I think thats because the dentist wants to address the more worse tooth first the back teeth need it because more bacteria is back there and it gets worse quick the front teeth are cosmetic unless its another issue. You really dont want to lose any of your back or side teeth if you do then you get a domino effect where all your teeth start falling sideways as the missing tooth is not there to hold the all the other teeth together.


But it's MY money and my mouth and I'm not paying for my back teeth to be pulled and wait 6 months for anything to happen when I can pay now and at least be able to smile. In my opinion, my front teeth are far more important than pulling my back teeth that aren't causing health problems.  And front teeth aren't just cosmetic, the have to bite food and can chew if necessary, but if they don't fix them, they are going to end up having to be pulled too.


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## larry_stewart (Jan 9, 2008)

Well, as far as the money thing, sure, anyone should be notified in advance.  But as I mentioned earlier, once you reach the nerve, you cant turn back.  It would be wrong to fill a tooth with a nerve exposure, and sometimes it is impossible to see the severity of the lesion prior to starting. That is why i try my best to give all options prior to starting a procedure.  Medicine isnt an exact science so sometimes the unexpected happens.

As for why do molars before the front teeth.  One main reason is that the back teeth stabilize your bite and keep the front teeth from hitting each other too hard.  Back teeth  are for  grinding, chewing, force .. Front teeth ( incisors) are meant to incise, or cut, but into.....  Obviously many people have different bites, and the rules dont apply %100 to everyone, but if you fix the front teeth and dont have a stable posterior bite, the heavy forces on the front teeth could fracture the new crown, bonding whatever ...  remember , porcelain is basically glass, and will shatter under extreme, unwanted and poorly directed force.  If there is a stable bite, and it is only one molar that is a problem, sure, why not do the anterior teeth first.  But the bite must be evaluated first to ensure a successful case.  Im very sure you can find someone to do what you want which would give you immediate satisfaction, but by cutting corners, may not last as long as the dentist who wanted to do it ' the right way'   I think if the dentist decides to do things a certain order, especially if it is not the order the patient wants, then it should be explained why he/ she chooses to do it that way.  Remember , it is your body, your health, your insurance and your money, so you do have the right to know and the right to ask.  But there usually are reasons for why we do what we do.

Quick example: A person who only has front teeth ( no back teeth) will continuously put too much pressure on their front teeth.  because most peoples front teeth have a slight over bite ( which is normal) , this excessive force continuously pushes upper teeth outward causing bone loss and movement and spaces between the teeth.  If this same person has some back teeth to prevent the front teeth from hitting too hard, the problem could have been avoided.


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## jpmcgrew (Jan 9, 2008)

Callisto in NC said:


> But it's MY money and my mouth and I'm not paying for my back teeth to be pulled and wait 6 months for anything to happen when I can pay now and at least be able to smile. In my opinion, my front teeth are far more important than pulling my back teeth that aren't causing health problems. And front teeth aren't just cosmetic, the have to bite food and can chew if necessary, but if they don't fix them, they are going to end up having to be pulled too.


I understand exactly what you are saying. What it really gets down to is how expensive it is to get any kind of dental work so you hafto pick and choose whats important to you. I really do wish it was more affordable I would go more often if I could afford it. I remember in my early 30s just barely having enough money to get one front tooth bleached but it was soo important to me. I know what it means to have a great smile and the stress of trying to come up with money just to get by.


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## larry_stewart (Jan 9, 2008)

One more quick thing.  Unless someone presents with an emergency, the first visit is usually to get updated x-rays, overall exam and to provide a treatment plan.  Usually the treatment plan will consist of a few different options , some being better, more expensive and more functional.  The difference in time to complete and cost can be huge.  A denture can cost a few thousand dollars and take a few visits to complete where implants can cost 10's of thousands of dollars and take a year to complete.  Many times ill listen to what the patients needs, desires are .  Ill give them a ball park figure.  And when they tell me at the end of he visit which options they are most interested in, ill have a printout of all the procedures and costs available for them to take home, read over and compare.  Ill print out all options if they like.  Also, we will do our best to give and idea of what the insurances will cover.  Unfortunately,  it could take a few weeks for the insurance companies to receive, review and get back to us so an exact figure on what insurance would pay may take some time.  Also, usually there is a maximum the insurance will pay , like $2000 + or - .  So in a case that is $5000, even if insurance will cover all the procedures, once they reach $2000, they stop payment.  Sure  , it is sometimes an option to break it up over two years to maximize the benefits.

If the patient doesnt like what they have been presented, or doesnt like the office , or wants a second opinion, they have the legal right to get copies of the x-rays ( may be charged a small duplicating fee like $25 ) and get copies of the notes faxed to another dentist.  So i guess what im saying is, go for a consult.  Get everything in writing and explained.  Go for a second or third opinion if desired.  

Its bad enough we have to deal with people who openly claim they hate us and the experience, why would we also want to piss them off by not telling prices or by doing other unethical things ??  I know i dont do it, but there are all kinds out there.  So, as a consumer, which is basically what you are, ask questions, get the info and make an educated decision.


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## Callisto in NC (Jan 9, 2008)

larry_stewart said:


> Well, as far as the money thing, sure, anyone should be notified in advance.  But as I mentioned earlier, once you reach the nerve, you cant turn back.  It would be wrong to fill a tooth with a nerve exposure, and sometimes it is impossible to see the severity of the lesion prior to starting. That is why i try my best to give all options prior to starting a procedure.  Medicine isnt an exact science so sometimes the unexpected happens.


I guess you aren't understanding my issue/question. What gives them the RIGHT to be nasty to me when I don't have more than the amount they originally told me to bring?  IMO NOTHING.  They have no right to have an attitude because they didn't call me before proceeding and then expecting me to have more than they told me three separate times.  I still owe them and will never pay because of the attitude they gave me.  




larry_stewart said:


> As for why do molars before the front teeth.  One main reason is that the back teeth stabilize your bite and keep the front teeth from hitting each other too hard.  Back teeth  are for  grinding, chewing, force .. Front teeth ( incisors) are meant to incise, or cut, but into.....  Obviously many people have different bites, and the rules dont apply %100 to everyone, but if you fix the front teeth and dont have a stable posterior bite, the heavy forces on the front teeth could fracture the new crown, bonding whatever ...  remember , porcelain is basically glass, and will shatter under extreme, unwanted and poorly directed force.  If there is a stable bite, and it is only one molar that is a problem, sure, why not do the anterior teeth first.  But the bite must be evaluated first to ensure a successful case.  Im very sure you can find someone to do what you want which would give you immediate satisfaction, but by cutting corners, may not last as long as the dentist who wanted to do it ' the right way'   I think if the dentist decides to do things a certain order, especially if it is not the order the patient wants, then it should be explained why he/ she chooses to do it that way.  Remember , it is your body, your health, your insurance and your money, so you do have the right to know and the right to ask.  But there usually are reasons for why we do what we do.
> 
> Quick example: A person who only has front teeth ( no back teeth) will continuously put too much pressure on their front teeth.  because most peoples front teeth have a slight over bite ( which is normal) , this excessive force continuously pushes upper teeth outward causing bone loss and movement and spaces between the teeth.  If this same person has some back teeth to prevent the front teeth from hitting too hard, the problem could have been avoided.


Again, kind of not the question.  If it's MY money and MY mouth, why is it "either do this or we won't treat you?"  Because here it is 6 months later and I still haven't had ONE tooth fixed because they won't do what I want done.  It's my money and you're providing a service, I should have some control.  As it is, my control is getting nothing done since they won't fix what I have the money to fix.  I don't have anything other than stubs in the back anyway, why not prop the front teeth and then I'll feel like it's worth fixing the back?   I am not going to have $5,000 extra dollars this year, why not do what will make me feel better instead of forcing me to feel worse about myself?  

Sorry, Larry, this is just very frustrating and very personal to me.  A week from today I have to greet over 750 people and I won't even be able to smile at them because I don't have money coming out my tush to pay for all this up front.


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## larry_stewart (Jan 9, 2008)

I understand %100, and to be perfectly honest, Im sure there is some solution to make things cosmetically acceptable without doing it in the proper order.  Without knowing the the exact condition it is impossible to comment on anyones situation.  But im we are force with many different situations, most not being ideal, and we do have to ' bend ' the rules to each individual case. I cant answer for the path that they took.  Hopefully everything will work out in the end.


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## LEFSElover (Jan 9, 2008)

Larry, oil changes don't hurt.  Of course I take my car in to be fixed.  It may pain the car but I feel nothing except in the pocket and I'm willing to do that.
From the dentist pulling at my cheek, and tugging at it like I was a little school boy and a big old man was yanking as he remembered from his own youth, why did he do that when prepping me for the dang needle?  Oh then, he takes out the needle, at this point I have white knuckles and he starts rubbing HARD on my cheek back and forth back and forth, like trying to break up the nov and make it spread out or something.  Sheesh, I was sore for days, when I looked closer in the mirror at my darling puss, I WAS BRUISED on my cheek where he'd rubbed so hard over and over again.  His lady's poked me on various occasions trying to get out the cement that they'd or someone had left in there.  Can they not see my gums and teeth and cheeks are in the way?  Do they just prod to hurt me?  I'm thinkin oh yeah...


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## jpmcgrew (Jan 9, 2008)

Ive had my dentist accamodate me big time by grinding down 2-3 teeth at a time as I live in a very isolated place and it is a 4 hour drive just to get to him but he also knew I could take it.Then he would make sure to get the lab to get my crowns made on time. I think that comes with living in the South West where some people live so far away from anything.


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## jpmcgrew (Jan 9, 2008)

LEFSElover said:


> Larry, oil changes don't hurt. Of course I take my car in to be fixed. It may pain the car but I feel nothing except in the pocket and I'm willing to do that.
> From the dentist pulling at my cheek, and tugging at it like I was a little school boy and a big old man was yanking as he remembered from his own youth, why did he do that when prepping me for the dang needle? Oh then, he takes out the needle, at this point I have white knuckles and he starts rubbing HARD on my cheek back and forth back and forth, like trying to break up the nov and make it spread out or something. Sheesh, I was sore for days, when I looked closer in the mirror at my darling puss, I WAS BRUISED on my cheek where he'd rubbed so hard over and over again. His lady's poked me on various occasions trying to get out the cement that they'd or someone had left in there. Can they not see my gums and teeth and cheeks are in the way? Do they just prod to hurt me? I'm thinkin oh yeah...


 How long ago was that? Dentists dont do that now, if so you have the wrong dentist. They were trying in those day by pulling the cheek and rubbing to do exactly what you said distribute the Novocaine. Now they just do do tiny injections wait a bit and continue further slowly until they get where they need to be, no pain at all.


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## Callisto in NC (Jan 9, 2008)

LEFSElover said:


> Larry, oil changes don't hurt.  Of course I take my car in to be fixed.  It may pain the car but I feel nothing except in the pocket and I'm willing to do that.


LEFSElover, I don't think I've spent $5000 on my car in service in 10 years let alone in the span of only 6 months.  Heck, for 5 Grand I could own a new car that wouldn't take 5 grand in repairs in the next 10 years and I could finance it for $100 a month.


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## Callisto in NC (Jan 9, 2008)

jpmcgrew said:


> How long ago was that? Dentists dont do that now, if so you have the wrong dentist. They were trying in those day by pulling the cheek and rubbing to do exactly what you said distribute the Novocaine. Now they just do do tiny injections wait a bit and continue further slowly until they get where they need to be, no pain at all.


I got the impression it just happened to her.  My daughter's cheek was bruised after her recent visit.


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## larry_stewart (Jan 9, 2008)

Maybe you guys went to the 105 dentists i graduated with that i wouldnt let touch me


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## Callisto in NC (Jan 9, 2008)

larry_stewart said:


> Maybe you guys went to the 105 dentists i graduated with that i wouldnt let touch me


When and where did you graduate from.  Most of my horror stories originate in California. 

My second favorite is the dentist that put a faulty crown on my tooth, it fell off after two weeks and because I swallowed it (ya think??) he wanted to charge me all over again for a new crown.  Seriously, is it any wonder I have a distrust of dentists?


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## NAchef (Jan 10, 2008)

I have a lot of problems with my teeth. I hate going but have to deal with it when Im there.

I recently got a Sonicare tooth brush with the sanitizer for FREE!!!!  I have had one in the past that didnt get used much but this one does. My old one died after about a year, but I think that was cause I never used it and left it on the charger.

ANYWAY, for some of you that want stuff like this for free go to BzzAgent All you have to do is take a few surveys, keep up to date, and they offer you stuff to try out and report back on. Once a year they have given out the Sonicare tooth bursh and that why I signed in. It took me a year but I got one that sales for $179! Just remember to give feed back on the item you get. I have gotten Listerene teeth whitening strips, water bottles for the kids, TV Guide subscription and more in the last year!


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## LEFSElover (Jan 10, 2008)

jpmcgrew said:


> How long ago was that? Dentists dont do that now, if so you have the wrong dentist.


uh, two weeks ago.
wondering do they not see the tears running down my face?  do they not hear the sadness in my voice and scared look on my face, do they not care?
Yah, wrong dentist but then, I've not gotten an offer from Larry yet either.
Larry you can PM me to tell me to stop annoying you, it's okay, I'm just frustrated with the dental business all together and sadly, I'm not done...


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## larry_stewart (Jan 10, 2008)

Dont worry about annoying me.  Ive been married 16 years.  Im used to it !!


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## Phil (Jan 10, 2008)

*You all are lucky....*

You hate dentist, mmm. How many medical professionals would take the time that Larry did, for nothing? In todays world, we have the opportunity to keep our own teeth until we die. You need to make every effort to do so. There is no substitute for the real thing.


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## larry_stewart (Jan 10, 2008)

and on my day off, no less 

Just kidding, im glad i can be here to help.  I feel seeing things from the dentist point of view might open someones eyes a little. And although may not make the situation any better or more comfortable, at least there is an understanding ( hopefully) 

Oh, and to answer a previous question, I attended dental school in the early 90's at Temple University in Philly.

Just went back to philly this past weekend and picked up 150 soft pretzels from the Center City Pretzel Factory near the Italian market.  Also did a little shopping at Fantes ( great cooking store) and in the market itself ( 3 pounds of cherries for $2.50 )


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## Callisto in NC (Jan 10, 2008)

Phil said:


> You hate dentist, mmm. How many medical professionals would take the time that Larry did, for nothing? In todays world, we have the opportunity to keep our own teeth until we die. You need to make every effort to do so. There is no substitute for the real thing.


IMO Larry isn't a dentist, he's a member and a good person.  He isn't out to make anything off of us, he's being a good person trying to help those of us that hyperventilate just going near a dentist office or throw up just because of the smell. Larry didn't do what he did for nothing, he did it because he's a good person and he's a member here.  

"In today's word we have the opportunity to keep our own teeth until we die...."  You didn't finish that sentence.  It ends with "....as long as you have money."  Federal law says you can't refuse medical treatment to the sick and injured but federal law doesn't help with your teeth.  My SIL has Medi-Cal but it doesn't include dental.  In California when I was on unemployment I wasn't eligible for Medi-Cal because those on unemployment are not eligible for whatever reason.  So, yeah, if you have money you have the opportunity but without money, you don't.


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## NAchef (Jan 11, 2008)




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## Callisto in NC (Jan 11, 2008)

NAchef, what does that mean?  Dentite isn't even a word in the dictionary.


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## LEFSElover (Jan 12, 2008)

larry_stewart said:


> and on my day off, no less
> 
> Just kidding, im glad i can be here to help. I feel seeing things from the dentist point of view might open someones eyes a little. And although may not make the situation any better or more comfortable, at least there is an understanding ( hopefully)
> 
> ...


are you comiing back to Philly since that's wherre I am right now, although obviously I can't spell or proof read.
I called my old dentist office last week to ask if they take my dental ins.  They do, I may just go back.
I can't eat on the side that they just put the two new crown on last week.  Very sensitive and anything that involves crunch forget about it.
So, now one tooth not affected is.
Good Grief, what's a person to do.
It's okay Larry, I can take a hint, you're full of clients and don't need one that may be troublesome, but you'd luv me, no, really you would, that's a hint in case you missed it


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## larry_stewart (Jan 12, 2008)

May be back in philly to go to the flower show, but Ill be leaving my dental isntruments behind 

And I can feel the love


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## LEFSElover (Jan 12, 2008)

larry_stewart said:


> May be back in philly to go to the flower show, but Ill be leaving my dental isntruments behind
> 
> And I can feel the love


I'll be back next weekend, just in case you bring your valise


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## StirBlue (Jan 12, 2008)

If you don't like your first visit (consultation) with the dentist and it is not an emergency situation, you should go to another dentist.  If you do not like the dentist, you should not go to other dentist in the same dental building.  

Most people are looking for a painless dentist but some people will go with a cheap dentist regardless of pain.  

You need to feel that you can trust the person who's hand is in your mouth.  If you are a younger person, you might want to choose a dentist who is not going to retire in the next five years.  

If your dentist gives you an appraisal and duration of service, you should confer with your insurance carrier as to what will be cover and how much you will need to be prepared to pay.  Decide how much vacation time that you want to spend with the dentist.

If you have health issues already, it is best to get dentures.  Tooth decay can increase those problems.  

I do not like dentist who perform dental work when there is an obvious infection.  Treat the infection with an antibotic and schedule the work.  There is so much more pain when dentist extract a tooth and you have an infection.  Of course some people do not go back after the infection is cured but the infection will come back if you don't get the work done afterward.

Do I have my original teeth.  Yes.  I have RA and the dentist do not understand how that affects my jaws.  And they could care less.  If you don't or cannot open your mouth wide enough, they'll pry it for you!  Ouch.

Don't get me started on those dental offices where they schedule too many patients and extract teeth before the pain medication takes hold or extract teeth after it wears off.  Yippie, I'll be back.....NOT!


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## jpmcgrew (Jan 12, 2008)

WOW! Sounds like alot of you have had some bad dentists. I must have been lucky.


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## larry_stewart (Jan 12, 2008)

Its the bad dentists that keep me busy


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## StirBlue (Jan 12, 2008)

larry_stewart said:


> Its the bad dentists that keep me busy


 
Reconstruction Work?


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## pdswife (Jan 12, 2008)

I guess I should say I like my dentist... he's fast.. he's nice...he does what needs to be done. 

I just HATE going.  I know it's not his fault when
I have a cavity or other work to be done.

He's also honest.
I went to a new dentist a few years back 
and he told me I had 7 cavities that had to be filled right away!
There's no way I had just been to MY dentist six months before and had NONE.
I'm back with the old one now.  I know I can trust him.


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## larry_stewart (Jan 12, 2008)

Yes , a lot of reconstructive work.  sometimes it amazes me what has been done in peoples mouths. But, being fair, I dont know the whole situation.  I had one guy who had significant life threatening medical issues, on multiple medications ( including blood thinners) , and multiple allergies.  His dental work was failing.  But the only thing I could do was ' patch things up' as best i can, just so he guy would have some quality of life.  I was never able to get medical clearance to perform the procedures he really needed.  But, I kept him functional and looking good for the last few months of his life.  So, although the work might have looked like a crap job to another dentist walking into the case not knowing the history, it was actually the best he could receive considering the circumstances.  
I never charged him a cent!
I thought it was the least I could do, and also, I kinda felt guilty considering i wasnt able to give him the quality care im used to giving.


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## StirBlue (Jan 12, 2008)

I do love hard crunchy food sometimes. But I find that soft foods are a lot harder to clean from your teeth and sometimes have to use floss. 

So outside of using your teeth as tools (removing/loosening bottle caps and cutting tape) teeth probably see a lot of action. 

If you are playing sports or get into any accident where a tooth is knocked out and you are able to retrieve the tooth, can it be re-attached? (like a finger or a toe...etc)? Can loose teeth caused by accident be saved? 

Do lemons really cause enamel damage to teeth? 

Are there any problems using the over-the-counter whiteners for teeth? Wouldn't it be faster just to get your teeth cleaned at the dentist?


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## larry_stewart (Jan 12, 2008)

Teeth that are completely knocked out of the mouth can be saved if the root isnt fractured or damaged, the socket isnt completely damaged, not too dirty, and replaced quickly. It will definately require a root canal, and there is still a good possiblity it will fail somewhere down the line.  Has to be splinted in place for a few weeks with bonding and a wire ( almost looks like braces).  Knocked out tooth shouldnt be scrubbed clean.  Ideal thing to do is either place it in your mouth ( dont swallow it  ) but the most common thing is to put it in milk.  Dont try to clean it with anything else as it could damage the surface that is needed to reattach.

A loose tooth first has to be repositioned to its original position, then splinted in place similar to the above .  Still likely to need root canal. And more likely to succeed than a completely avulsed tooth.

Any trauma, even if the teeth are not displaced could cause them to die, turn black, abscess, or become mobile. And usually, more than one tooth is involved.  One may be loose, but the one next to it, that is solid, turns black in time.

Lemons as well as any acid will erode the enamel. Perfect example is a bulimic person.  Not that you will have the opportunity, but check behind their upper incisors, and u will see it is thin, and yellow.  The yellow is the 2nd layer of tooth ( just underneath the enamel)  This is visible because the enamel has been worn away .  Also people with acid reflux can cause the same, both due to the stomach acids.

over the counter whiteners are fine.  Usually not as strong as the stuff in a dental office, but also usually 1/10 the price.  May take longer to see a result, and most likely, but not always, will not have the same results.  But still a good option.

Getting teeth cleaned makes them feel good, but unless you have a lot of external surface staining ( like smoking, coffee, tea) dont expect the teeth to look much whiter after a cleaning.  The will feel nice and smooth, but the yellowness and staining you see is a result of internal staining, or stains that have really absorbed into the tooth.  Only bleaching will lighten these up ( and not always, and not the same amount for each person)  just as Bleaching will NOT remove the superfical smoking stains .  So, ideal treatment to whiten teeth would be to get a cleaning first, then bleach immediately or soon after .

The one hour bleaching , usually 3X more expensive then the tray bleaching, wont necessarily make it any whiter.  Just is a lot faster .  so, u are paying for the in office chair time.  If you have the time, patience and know u will follow the directions , save your money and just do the tray bleaching.  Cold sensitivity is normal for all kinds of bleaching, usually goes away in time.  Fluoride rinses could be used to minimize this side affect.

Finally, everything said is a generalization.  DIfferent people, teeth, situations have differnt results.  So I hope no one gets all wacky on me saying that they had a different experience, because I would be shocked if they didnt 

Oh and about the soft vs hard food thing.  Hard foods like pretzels, nuts , pop corn kernels are more likely to cause physical fractures in the teeth, where as softer foods are more likely to ' stick ' to your teeth, therefore, causing more cavities as the starchy sugars are adhering to your teeth.  Dried fruit is just as bad as candy because of its high sugar content and ability to stick to your teeth.  Not saying it shouldnt be eaten,  just brush after you do .


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## Callisto in NC (Jan 12, 2008)

Hey Larry ~ when your location says Long Island, what part?  My mom was raised in Hampton Bays before it was hoity toity!


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## larry_stewart (Jan 12, 2008)

I live in the Port Jefferson area ( which is about 45 minutes from there) but my practice is in babylon which is a little further ( or closer to the city)


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## jkath (Jan 13, 2008)

Am I the only one who actually looks forward to going to the dentist?

I LOVE LOVE LOVE getting my teeth worked on. I think it's because afterward my teeth feel so great, and I know they're being well cared for. As a kid, my mom told us the importance of going to the dentist, and how she looked forward to it. So, we liked going too...well, that, and the Doc called me "Princess". I liked that.

I've had my share of mess-ups, including 2 crowns that were improperly made, but that's okay-nobody is perfect. I wear my bite-guard religiously every night, so I can keep my pearly whites happy.

I think it's great when I have the opportunity to speak with different girls who work on my teeth before the dentist comes in. They're all very sweet, and all work the same on me. I think a lot of the abilities they have come from the overall guidance of the dentist.

Unfortunately, my current insurance only allows me to come in every 6 months, but my lucky husband gets to go every 3. 

If I won the lottery, I'd pay to go to the dentist for a cleaning every week!

To you, Larry, thank you for being in what I think is a very difficult job, considering so many don't want to come visit.


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## Constance (Jan 13, 2008)

Going to the dentist is not my favorite thing, but I've always taken care of my teeth. I've been lucky to have excellent care, first from a friend, and now that he's retired, from a young woman who bought his practice. 

Neither one has ever hurt me. In fact, the new gal has put in a massaging chair, so I get a great back rub while I'm getting my work done. 

My only problem is that my sinuses start draining the minute they start working on my teeth, which is miserable.


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## larry_stewart (Jan 13, 2008)

I have some patients that love coming to the dentist, not because of the work itself, but its a time for them to sit back and relax.  No kids screaming, no fighting for the remote control, no husbands or wives complaining, and no phones ringing ( although that has changed with the cell phones). Many times we talk about our vacations, places we like to go, things we like to do, sports.....


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