# Dried rosemary and thyme for bread recipe?



## my_psychosis (Dec 25, 2006)

Hi all. My bread recipe calls for 1 tsp each fresh rosemary and thyme. I only have dried, so how much should I use? Thanx.


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## TATTRAT (Dec 25, 2006)

Use 1 tablespoon instead, if I remember the fresh to dried conversions, hrmm?


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## Aria (Dec 25, 2006)

Ground herbs should be used in the recipes unless another form is specified.  If you substitute fresh herbs, increase the amount.


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## Andy M. (Dec 25, 2006)

my_psychosis said:
			
		

> Hi all. My bread recipe calls for 1 tsp each fresh rosemary and thyme. I only have dried, so how much should I use? Thanx.


 

Use fewer dried herbs than fresh, NOT more.  A third to a half teaspoon of dried will equal a teaspoon of fresh.


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## auntdot (Dec 26, 2006)

First let me make sure you are talking about ground herbs and not just dried.

The ratio I have always kept in mind is 1 fresh or 1/2 ground, but have always thought that was a little too much of the ground.

So would go with Andy's suggestion.


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## daisy (Dec 26, 2006)

Use 2-3 times as much fresh herb as the dried herb called for in a recipe. (To put this in reverse: if the recipe calls for fresh herbs, and you only have dried - use roughly 1/3-1/2 dried herb to the amount of fresh herb required.) Be very, very careful using fresh or dried rosemary whole leaves. People have been known to choke on them, and they can be quite sharp. Best to use dried ground rosemary, or fresh rosemary still on the sprig which you should remove prior to serving the dish. 

Or, try chopping the leaves in your food processor. Quick and easy, and the end result is safer. To save time, do a whole heap in one go, and freeze the excess for future use. 

I don't freeze thyme or rosemary because I have them growing all year round, but for herbs like parsley or chives, which I harvest more frequently, I chop them and freeze them in a flat pancake. (I don't really need to do this, but I don't fancy going outside if I'm cooking after dark! I have a Thing about walking through a cobweb or treading on a cane toad!) That way, little chunks of appropriate size can be snapped off very easily. In fact, you can separate the whole 'pancake' quite easily without needing to defrost. If you freeze them in a lump, you'll have to defrost the whole lot, or else use a jackhammer to break off what you require.


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## Candocook (Dec 26, 2006)

I agree with Daisy. 3:1 fresh:dried.  Ground herbs? I usually associate "ground" with spices/seeds such as cinnamon, coriander, nutmeg, etc. and not herbs (although I know they are available)--sage comes to mind quickly.  I grind/powder herbs IF the recipe specifies it, since the amount will be quite different.
For rosemary, I chop fresh or dried--not ground.


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## VeraBlue (Dec 26, 2006)

Aria said:
			
		

> Ground herbs should be used in the recipes unless another form is specified.  If you substitute fresh herbs, increase the amount.



I disagree.   If fresh herbs are called for, I'd never substitute ground, dried.  The idea of substituting works only when you copy as closely as possible what the original would have resulted.  Fresh herbs have texture and dimension.  If you _have_ to used dried, you should use dried, whole herbs.

If a recipe calls for herbs, and 'fresh' is not specified, I'd still not use ground herbs for the same reason mentioned above.  Herbs have texture and dimension, qualities ususally desired in any recipe.


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## Michael in FtW (Dec 26, 2006)

I'm guess this is an herb bread recipe ... which also calls for the herbs to be "chopped"? I've made herb breads before using dried herbs and they work just fine.

Since drying herbs reduces their volume (the water evaporates) and concentrates their flavors ... only use 1/3 to 1/2 as much dried as fresh. For herb breads I generally use 1/2 the amount dried as fresh.

As for chopping dried herbs you can crumble them between your fingers, chop the with a knife on your cutting board or if you have a "spice grinder" (I have a cheap Krups coffee grinder that I use exclusively for herbs and spices) you can toss them in there and give thema couple of pulses.


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## Aria (Dec 27, 2006)

I furnished my info on herbs quoted from 1978 Betty Crocker's Cookbook New and Revised Edition.


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## Half Baked (Dec 27, 2006)

I just can't imagine 1/4 teaspoon each of rosemary and thyme having much, if any effect on a whole loaf of bread.

I'll have to give it a try.


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## VeraBlue (Dec 27, 2006)

Aria said:
			
		

> I furnished my info on herbs quoted from 1978 Betty Crocker's Cookbook New and Revised Edition.



Well, now that makes sense, Aria.  You're quoting from a book that is 30 years old!   I'm not even convinced that there were dried, whole herbs 30 years ago.  Progressively, cooking technique and method has changed dramatically in the past 30 years, would you not agree?


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## Michael in FtW (Dec 27, 2006)

VeraBlue said:
			
		

> You're quoting from a book that is 30 years old! I'm not even convinced that there were dried, whole herbs 30 years ago.


 
Well, VB ... you have to understand cookbooks ... the good ones will explain what they mean in their recipes - and if you put it back into context - the info Aria quoted is _*only*_ specific to the recipes in the 1978 edition of _Betty Crocker's Cookbook_ where in their recipes, "Ground herbs should be used in the recipes unless another form is specified. If you substitute fresh herbs, increase the amount." I have several cookbooks that explain "what they mean" up front in the introduction, preface, or some other introductory section. I have a modern cookbook that says up front ... when they say "flour" they mean all-purpose unless otherwise specified in the recipe, etc.

And yes, there _were_ dried whole herbs in 1978 ... and probably a couple or more mellennia before then.



			
				Half Baked said:
			
		

> I just can't imagine 1/4 teaspoon each of rosemary and thyme having much, if any effect on a whole loaf of bread.


 
LOL - Jan .... *my_psychosis* didn't give us the recipe so it's hard to guage how much herbs for what quantity of flour. However, from doing a little exploring ... 1 tsp each of fresh herbs would be about right for a loaf made from 2-cups of flour.

Remember - the question was about substituting fresh for dry in the recipe - not how much you or I would use.


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## philso (Dec 27, 2006)

well, there are dried herbs and then there are dried herbs. i think it's useless to try to apply one ratio to them all.

fresh herbs usually pack the most flavor whallop. freshly dried whole herbs, next. powdered herbs, least. with dried whole herbs, there is a marked difference between air-dried and freeze-dried in flavor. even dried whole herbs will end up pretty flavorless if they've been sitting around for 2 or 3 years. and there's also the obvious volume difference between whole and powdered herbs; will you get the same amount of flavor out of powdered herbs because there's more of it in any given volume. who knows??

there's also the chef's interpretation of the recipe; in this case, do you want the herbs to stand forth boldly or be delicately suggestive?

my bottom-line advice: use your nose instead of your measuring spoons.


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## VeraBlue (Dec 28, 2006)

Michael in FtW said:
			
		

> Well, VB ... you have to understand cookbooks ... the good ones will explain what they mean in their recipes - and if you put it back into context - the info Aria quoted is _*only*_ specific to the recipes in the 1978 edition of _Betty Crocker's Cookbook_ where in their recipes, "Ground herbs should be used in the recipes unless another form is specified. If you substitute fresh herbs, increase the amount." I have several cookbooks that explain "what they mean" up front in the introduction, preface, or some other introductory section. I have a modern cookbook that says up front ... when they say "flour" they mean all-purpose unless otherwise specified in the recipe, etc.
> 
> And yes, there _were_ dried whole herbs in 1978 ... and probably a couple or more mellennia before then.



I'm not quite sure how to respond to this...It seemed that Aria and I had this pretty much settled, conversationally.    I do understand the nature of cookbooks, everything from 'good' cookbooks to printed recipes from the 1700s, those translated from another language, card files passed down through generations.  I'm not sure what about my response would suggest I don't understand cookbooks.  
The comment regarding whole herbs was meant to be tongue in cheek, not a literal expression.


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## Candocook (Dec 28, 2006)

I think Michael's interpretation of the specificity of the direction for that cookbook is quite cogent. I was a bit befuddled by the ground herb thing, since I find them to be SO specific for certain recipes and not at all applicable for others. So a "blanket" pronouncement to use ground herbs was confusing. Thanks Michael.
As for "30 year old cookbooks", Julia's still work very well for me.


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## Michael in FtW (Dec 29, 2006)

VeraBlue said:
			
		

> The comment regarding whole herbs was meant to be tongue in cheek, not a literal expression.


 
Sorry, VB - I failed to include an emoticon to denote that I, too, was being a bit cheeky. I know you know cooking, and how to read cookbooks. So for my negligence I will willingly strip off my shirt, wrap my arms around the mast, and take my 40-lashes with a wet noodle without a whimper....


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## VeraBlue (Dec 30, 2006)

Michael in FtW said:
			
		

> Sorry, VB - I failed to include an emoticon to denote that I, too, was being a bit cheeky. I know you know cooking, and how to read cookbooks. So for my negligence I will willingly strip off my shirt, wrap my arms around the mast, and take my 40-lashes with a wet noodle without a whimper....



Okay, now you've gone and one it....I'm all excited...I'll even waive my normal $250 fee !!!!

Thanks for the clarification, I really do mean that.


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