# Need help please - FOLLOW UP



## Ruffsta (Jan 31, 2022)

ok, so the new true measurement readings are as follows - (thanks to my new gram scale):

102 servings
1/4 Tsp - (0.8g)
Sodium: 65mg at 3%
Sugar: 0mg at 0% - (the 0.21 doesn't even register as mentioned last topic..)

5.5oz bottle - (3oz) = 8.67 bottles


batch salt = 144g
batch Lt brown sugar = 220g

image: https://i.ibb.co/TH4BCPv/1265309-Nutrition-Label.jpg


bliss, any input?


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## dcSaute (Jan 31, 2022)

serving size 1/4 teaspoon?
that's seriously unrealistic.


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## blissful (Jan 31, 2022)

Ruffsta, I cannot really help you because your communication is consistently unclear.  I'm not saying mine is better or I don't make mistakes, but you are unclear.


The fda guidance for the ingredients on a spice mix says one thing, and you ignore it for what you want. The spices must be listed.
 This is what it should look like.







Your servings went from 120/bottle to 102/bottle. All your calculations will have to be recalculated. If you've done that, then go with that. Use a calculator. Follow the same formulas. Good Luck.


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## Ruffsta (Feb 1, 2022)

dcSaute said:


> serving size 1/4 teaspoon?
> that's seriously unrealistic.




no it's not... have you read dry rubs / seasonings? i look at them all the time.. 1/4 tsp is a norm. i work in a grocery store i can take TONS and TONS pictures of serving sizes..


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## Ruffsta (Feb 1, 2022)

blissful said:


> Your servings went from 120/bottle to 102/bottle



i did say i was getting a new scale.. and according to my old scale it said 120 while the new scale says 102.. and i measured 34 tsp's to an ounce.. so x 3 = 102


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## taxlady (Feb 1, 2022)

Why are you multiply by 3, when you say that a serving is 1/4 of teaspoon? I think you should be multiplying by 4, since that's how many servings there are in a teaspoon. Am I misunderstanding something?

But, it would be more accurate to weigh out an ounce and then measure how many teaspoons there are in that, then multiply by 4.


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## buckytom (Feb 1, 2022)

Stupid is as stupid does.
F. Gump.


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## Just Cooking (Feb 2, 2022)

buckytom said:


> Stupid is as stupid does.
> F. Gump.



Its the times.


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## Ruffsta (Feb 2, 2022)

buckytom said:


> Stupid is as stupid does.
> F. Gump.



Watch yourself


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## Ruffsta (Feb 2, 2022)

taxlady said:


> Why are you multiply by 3, when you say that a serving is 1/4 of teaspoon? I think you should be multiplying by 4, since that's how many servings there are in a teaspoon. Am I misunderstanding something?
> 
> But, it would be more accurate to weigh out an ounce and then measure how many teaspoons there are in that, then multiply by 4.



Serving sizeis1
 1/4 tsp.. 34 in an oz x 3 for 3oz is 102  Servings


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## karadekoolaid (Feb 2, 2022)

I´ve just looked at some spice mixes in the closet: Trader Joe´s, 
whole foods, McCormick, 365 Whole Foods, Kroger,etc.
Some of the items give a serving size as 1/4 tsp. Others, 1/3 tsp. Others, 1/2 tsp. And yet others, don´t even have "Nutritional Information" on the packet.
They *do,* however, contain a list of ingredients - all of them.
Like I suggested before, if you want a precise, exact,accurate, detailed,meticulous, perfect Nutritional Information table on your product, run, don´t walk to a registered Food Laboratory, where they will analyse your product and produce all this information with scientific precision.


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## taxlady (Feb 2, 2022)

Ruffsta said:


> i did say i was getting a new scale.. and according to my old scale it said 120 while the new scale says 102.. and *i measured 34 tsp's to an ounce*.. so x 3 = 102





Ruffsta said:


> Serving sizeis1
> 1/4 tsp.. 34 in an oz x 3 for 3oz is 102  Servings



34 what in an oz, 34 quarter teaspoons or 34 whole teaspoons?


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## buckytom (Feb 2, 2022)

Ruffsta said:


> Watch yourself




I'm just kidding.

My head hurts from all of the differential calculisms.


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## jennyema (Feb 2, 2022)

I agree that a serving size of 1/4 teaspoon borders on the ridiculous.... sorry


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## Ruffsta (Feb 2, 2022)

karadekoolaid said:


> I´ve just looked at some spice mixes in the And yet others, don´t even have "Nutritional Information" on the packet.




because they filed an exemption form under "Cottage Food Law".

example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS5N6N-QMkw


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## Ruffsta (Feb 2, 2022)

taxlady said:


> 34 what in an oz, 34 quarter teaspoons or 34 whole teaspoons?





mistyped.. but i did correct myself...


34 servings measured at a 1/4 tsp each = 1oz

my bottle holds 3oz.. so 34 x 3 = 102 servings per bottle

i cannot make it more clear than that..


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## Ruffsta (Feb 2, 2022)

jennyema said:


> I agree that a serving size of 1/4 teaspoon borders on the ridiculous.... sorry



ok.. that's YOUR opinion... but facts are facts.. here is just 1 example of exactly the same thing as mine only they are using a bigger bottle and more servings..


pic 1: https://i.ibb.co/Yk6FtK1/20220202-154816.jpg

pic 2: https://i.ibb.co/dLPJP95/20220202-154845.jpg

so again, i'm not gonna sit here and argue or debate serving sizes.. a serving size is determined by the maker.. and well 3oz gives 102 servings at 1/4 tsp to make 3oz of my blend... just like they are as well as with many other rubs / seasonings... it doesn't take much to season 1 piece of chicken or 12 shrimp or whatever... and people will use as much or as little of as they want as a seasoning.. as for using it as a rub then one will probably use atleast half the bottle especially if your smoking meats.. so just for seasoning 1 piece of chicken both sides really only takes 1/4 tsp... so i'm done debating on serving sizes...


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## blissful (Feb 2, 2022)

https://agri.ohio.gov/divisions/food-safety/resources/cottage-food


The exemption for labeling is from the federal gov't. The cottage food guidance is in that link. Nutritional labels must include the ingredients.


While someone might worry that their spice mix might be copied by consumers instead of buying a spice mix, me, as a consumer, won't buy anything in a package that doesn't have an ingredient list.
For instance, banana's don't need an ingredient list.
Processed foods, spice mixes, do need one, or it could be wood pulp for all I know.


This past year I wanted some chili powder. The actual chili ground up with nothing added. You might be surprised to look at the ingredients on chili powders, with salt, sugar, other ingredients.


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## Ruffsta (Feb 2, 2022)

i don't really care about listing the ingredients.. however, that mandatory listing of them makes anyone's recipe not private or proprietary.. if you use recipal.. you do have the option as i have showed to select spice or not a spice in the ingredient statement - it makes the ingredients label automatically.. but anyways.. it just pisses me off because i want my recipe to be mine and mine alone - not for everyone to try and re-create.. paprika is a spice and a spice alone.. so the FDA should allow me to say "spice" and not paprika as recipal IS FDA approved site in label making..  i don't see why if i make a mustard or a hot sauce i can spice and not have to say paprika... it's the same freaking ingredient / item..  it IS a spice in the end.. whatever...

if i have to list them i will.. but that is to be determined by clear confirmation from the FDA which i have contacted them yesterday.. they can't say one thing and allow another.. so i will get to the bottom of this yet.. cause to me it's all BS! can say spice in 1 thing but must state the ingredient in another thing - it's the same freaking ingredient.. it's all crap!

and i'm only using paprika as an example.. same goes with garlic powder or black pepper.. they ARE just spices! there is nothing more to them than just being a spice...


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## taxlady (Feb 2, 2022)

If you don't list the ingredients, you still have to list any allergens. I know more than one person with an allergy to alliums (onions, garlic, etc.).


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## blissful (Feb 2, 2022)

Well, I hope you get to do what you wish to do.
Wishing doesn't generally pan out for most of us.


With that, I would factor in a difficulty in being able to sell to any local stores that may reject it due to the label, time/money. Factor in the cost of reprinting the label if the FDA contacts you and requires you to relabel all your spice mix. Factor in buying new label stock, and the glue required to attach labels to the containers. Factor in a delay in selling due to people not buying spice mixes without correct ingredient lists.


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## Ruffsta (Feb 2, 2022)

only allergens i have to list is:

img: https://i.ibb.co/GPHZPxq/ddd.png


1.) cause it's all the FDA software allows
2.) ALL and i mean ALL my ingredients are FDA listed and provided as safe in small amounts.. i forget the exact term they use.. but know as safe in moderate daily portions..


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## Ruffsta (Feb 2, 2022)

blissful said:


> Well, I hope you get to do what you wish to do.
> Wishing doesn't generally pan out for most of us.
> 
> 
> With that, I would factor in a difficulty in being able to sell to any local stores that may reject it due to the label, time/money. Factor in the cost of reprinting the label if the FDA contacts you and requires you to relabel all your spice mix. Factor in buying new label stock, and the glue required to attach labels to the containers. Factor in a delay in selling due to people not buying spice mixes without correct ingredient lists.




i'm already guaranteed to be in the Kroger store where i work at - (Support Local) section and going into Jungle Jim's.. so my label has been reviewed and accepted by both places.. i am working on getting it into a restaurant.. where i have my most of my background as a former head chef for 15yrs.. i have lots of contacts

my spice blend is already in a restaurant in Rhode Island - has been for 3yrs.. the place where i created it..  so no difficulty there...

i think you over think it.. it's not as hard as you may think/believe. Granted.. i do have contacts, my store manager, me being a former chef with chef contacts and all.. so maybe i do have a leg up on things than most.. still, not as difficult as one may think.

i just never tried to bottle anything i ever came up with.. and now i want to cause i'm tired of getting up at 5am to punch a clock.. i want my own place and well.. time to sell some spice blends and sauces that i have created over the years to come up with a down payment on a food truck or brick and mortar.. so bottling and all is new to me.. hence why i am here..


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## karadekoolaid (Feb 2, 2022)

Ruffsta said:


> because they filed an exemption form under "Cottage Food Law".
> example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS5N6N-QMkw



OK, fair enough.
So here´s another question: if you can get an exemption,why not just keep it simple? List the ingredients, and that´s it.


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## blissful (Feb 2, 2022)

Ruffsta said:


> i think you over think it.. it's not as hard as you may think/believe.




I have this aversion to having the FDA call me or knock on my door. I try to avoid it at all costs. I'm just not fond of breaking the rules or guidelines or laws.


I do, I absolutely do over think it. It is a hobby of mine. Better safe  than sorry. I do tend not to take the easy way out, when easy means  thoughtless or heedless, possibly negatively impacting others health or welfare. I've seen how that can cause problems.


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## buckytom (Feb 2, 2022)

Lol, bliss.
That reminds me of Demetri Martin's comment, "The other day I was thinking the I often overthink things."


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## karadekoolaid (Feb 2, 2022)

Ruffsta said:


> i don't really care about listing the ingredients.. however, that mandatory listing of them makes anyone's recipe not private or proprietary



No it doesn´t, because you don´t have to list the exact quantities of each spice. So I may havea recipe for steak rub which includes paprika, garlic salt, onion salt and cumin; but if I´m using 4 tbsps of garlic salt to 1/2 tsp of all the rest, it´s going to taste different from 1 tsp of all the ingredients, right?


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## buckytom (Feb 2, 2022)

I feel like a gypsy at an anvil.

Here's some folks of DC gathering to sing about the tedium.


https://youtu.be/6xFI38aMWZM

Who turns a gypsy's day brighter than the sun?


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## taxlady (Feb 3, 2022)

Can we please not use the G-word? Please use the term Romani or Roma.


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## Cooking Goddess (Feb 4, 2022)

blissful said:


> ...This past year I wanted some chili powder. The actual chili ground up with nothing added. You might be surprised to look at the ingredients on chili powders, with salt, sugar, other ingredients.


A product labeled "chili" is a seasoning blend. Most manufacturers do add sugar and salt,  which is why I make my own. What you need to look for is individual chile powders ground from the particular chile pepper, such as ancho chile's, pasilla, chipotle, etc.


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## blissful (Feb 4, 2022)

Cooking Goddess said:


> A product labeled "chili" is a seasoning blend. Most manufacturers do add sugar and salt,  which is why I make my own. What you need to look for is individual chile powders ground from the particular chile pepper, such as ancho chile's, pasilla, chipotle, etc.




Yes, thank you. I did find 'New Mexican Chili ground', which was ground up annaheims.


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## Ruffsta (Feb 6, 2022)

karadekoolaid said:


> OK, fair enough.
> So here´s another question: if you can get an exemption,why not just keep it simple? List the ingredients, and that´s it.




because i honestly feel that the FDA contradicts itself.. for a hot sauce or mustard, you don't have to list each "spice", but in a dry you do? why? a spice is a spice no matter if it's in a sauce, mustard, dry rub or whatever.. they CLEARLY marked the item as a "SPICE"! 


SUBSTANCES GENERALLY RECOGNIZED AS SAFE:

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?CFRPart=182&showFR=1

so what's the big deal then? you can say "spices" in one thing but not in another? they're full of SHHIIITTT if you ask me! if the item is listed as safe and and can be used as "SPICES"... get the point?

paprika is paprika, garlic is garlic, onion is onion.. i mean c'mon now... a spice is a spice no matter how you look at it.

i'm listing mine, but only because i am forced to.. still doesn't make sense nor have they justified it in any manner!


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## jennyema (Feb 7, 2022)

Ruffsta said:


> i think you over think it.. it's not as hard as you may think/believe. Granted.. i do have contacts, my store manager, me being a former chef with chef contacts and all.. so maybe i do have a leg up on things than most.. still, not as difficult as one may think.




I think you are very much underthinking it.  My best friend is a food manufacturer.  She sells sauces to restaurants in Massachusetts and New York and retail at gourmet stores in both states and on line through Macy's.  She is now fairly well known in the national food community.

She is completing a larger factory to make her product.

It has been a tough and expensive haul for her.  There are a million things to take into consideration.  Its a 24/7/365 effort.  She has a business partner and family and friends like me who help, but its still probably more stressful that her previous job as a securities analyst.  More rewarding, though.

Recently she's had supply problems with her bottles which has put her into quite a bind.


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