# Saffron



## Sagittarius

Good afternoon,  

Of course, besides Valencian Paellas  or  Risotto Milanese, what other dishes do you use Saffron for   ?  



Thank you in advance ..


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## medtran49

we've made Mini Meatballs in Saffron Sauce Recipe | Bon Appetit several times as part of a tapas meal.


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## medtran49

This too https://www.certifiedangusbeef.com/recipes/recipedetail.aspx?id=28


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## skilletlicker

Saffron, like fleur de sel and white truffles, is just too expensive for me.
Will use achiote oil, annatto seeds & olive oil, for color knowing full well the taste is completely different.


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## Andy M.

medtran49 said:


> This too https://www.certifiedangusbeef.com/recipes/recipedetail.aspx?id=28



Sounds like a tasty recipe but cooking 2" cubes of beef for 5-6 hours is a bit of overkill.


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## medtran49

We don't cook it that long, just until tender.


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## Andy M.

Thanks for posting.  Copied and saved for a cool weather meal.


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## skilletlicker

medtran49 said:


> This too https://www.certifiedangusbeef.com/recipes/recipedetail.aspx?id=28



Out of idle curiosity, how do you measure 1 teaspoon of saffron threads? Pack them down into the spoon?


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## GotGarlic

Persian Jeweled Rice - http://www.bonappetit.com/recipe/jeweled-rice


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## blissful

skilletlicker said:


> Saffron, like fleur de sel and white truffles, is just too expensive for me.
> Will use achiote oil, annatto seeds & olive oil, for color knowing full well the taste is completely different.



Skilletlicker, do you care to share your experience in using annatto seeds & olive oil? I buy annatto seed solution when making some kinds of cheese. I bought some annatto seeds to experiment with and so far I'm not clear (even after much noodling around the internet) on how to best get the color from the outside coating of the annatto seed, into a solution. Some say boil it in water, in an acid solution, some say boil it in water in a base solution, some say to use some oil with the water. You got anything?


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## skilletlicker

blissful said:


> Skilletlicker, do you care to share your experience in using annatto seeds & olive oil? I buy annatto seed solution when making some kinds of cheese. I bought some annatto seeds to experiment with and so far I'm not clear (even after much noodling around the internet) on how to best get the color from the outside coating of the annatto seed, into a solution. Some say boil it in water, in an acid solution, some say boil it in water in a base solution, some say to use some oil with the water. You got anything?



I learned to use it maybe 20 years ago from a TV show called Daisy Cooks by Daisy Martinez. Put some achiote (annatto) seeds and olive oil into a skillet and heat it keeping a close eye to keep the oil below smoke point and not over cook the seeds. They turn black(ish) and taste bad. The oil turns a pretty deep orangish red and the oil can be saved in the fridge. 

So after writing all that I googled it and found this YouTube of Daisy explaining how to do it.

Daisy darlin, skilletlicker misses you


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## CakePoet

Curries, chicken dishes and lamb dishes.  I also have it in  desserts, cakes, rolls and cookies.


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## blissful

skilletlicker said:


> I learned to use it maybe 20 years ago from a TV show called Daisy Cooks by Daisy Martinez. Put some achiote (annatto) seeds and olive oil into a skillet and heat it keeping a close eye to keep the oil below smoke point and not over cook the seeds. They turn black(ish) and taste bad. The oil turns a pretty deep orangish red and the oil can be saved in the fridge.
> 
> So after writing all that I googled it and found this YouTube of Daisy explaining how to do it.



So all along, I ought to have been searching out ACHIOTE, and since I'm language impaired, I was just searching ANNATTO, THANK YOU. That helps a great deal Skilletlicker. Good video! Thanks again.


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## medtran49

We just estimate very conservatively with a pinch.  Too much saffron and it starts to taste like medicine.  Can always add more if not enough to begin with.


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## Cooking Goddess

Mom used a pinch in chicken soup, and I do, too. Since my SIL does the same thing, I'm going to guess that my MIL also did that. Must be a Slavic thing.

I grew the autumn crocuses for a couple of years when we lived in our first house. Wasn't much work, so I wasn't too upset with the small harvest. Each year gave me just enough strands for two pots of soup.


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## Andy M.

skilletlicker said:


> Saffron, like fleur de sel and white truffles, is just too expensive for me.
> Will use achiote oil, annatto seeds & olive oil, for color knowing full well the taste is completely different.



This seems unusual.  I would think flavor is more important than color.


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## skilletlicker

Andy M. said:


> This seems unusual.  I would think flavor is more important than color.



It is even more unusual for a person of average means or less, to flavor their food with a substance that costs between two and ten thousand dollars a pound.

Most unusual of all should be for that fact to be beyond the grasp of otherwise intelligent people of privilege.


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## Cheryl J

Another view here. To be honest, I've never bought saffron. 

I cook for one 90% of the time and have limited freezer space, so if I'm making chicken soup (for example) and want a nice color to the broth, I just add a tiny bit of turmeric - relying on the thyme, garlic, chicken, veggies, etc. for the flavor.  I've also used turmeric in rice, on occasion.

Most of my meals are made with the intention to be used within a few days, with the exception of roasts, and sometimes soup - if I have the freezer room.  

I've really been considering getting another small freezer to keep in the garage, but haven't gotten that far yet, until I make some space out there.


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## Andy M.

skilletlicker said:


> It is even more unusual for a person of average means or less, to flavor their food with a substance that costs between two and ten thousand dollars a pound.
> 
> 
> 
> Most unusual of all should be for that fact to be beyond the grasp of otherwise intelligent people of privilege.





My choice would be to just leave it out or choose another recipe rather than coloring the dish. Who are you fooling??


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## GotGarlic

I've never bought saffron, either. My MIL gave me a paella kit for Christmas once that included a tiny vial of it. Maybe I didn't use enough when I made the paella (since I had enough left to use for the rice I mentioned [emoji38]) but I didn't think it had much flavor. Turmeric or annatto provide nice color and onions, garlic and other seasonings provide plenty of flavor. So I'm not tempted to buy it.


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## Cheryl J

Andy M. said:


> My choice would be to just leave it out or choose another recipe rather than coloring the dish. Who are you fooling??



We all have differing opinions and choices.  That's what makes this a great forum.


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## medtran49

You can buy it in very small quantities in the grocery.  A home cook.is not going to use that much or that often. We usually get 3 uses out of the container that's  around 5ish dollars.  It's  not like you have to buy 1 of those containers that a chef would use that costs 100s to 1000s.    it has a very definite flavor and, as I  wrote, you have to be judicious or you end up with food that tastes like medicine.


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## skilletlicker

Andy M. said:


> My choice would be to just leave it out or choose another recipe rather than coloring the dish. Who are you fooling??



In your previous post the insult was merely implied. I see we have moved past that. 
The use of achiote seeds and, as GG noted turmeric, is very commonplace in Caribbean and Latin American cooking as well as other cuisines. I don't think anyone is trying to fool anybody, although some fools may reveal themselves. 

One of the biggest influences on my cooking was the Daisy Martinez' Daisy Cooks PBS series and associated cookbook of the same name, which I mentioned here earlier. So that influenced my comments in this thread and most of my posts in this forum for that matter. It is not an attempt to fool you, good sir. I cook for myself after all. 

More could be said, but why throw gas on the fire. I know you won't be able to resist the need for the last word but I'm finished with it.


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## Andy M.

skilletlicker said:


> ...Will use achiote oil, annatto seeds & olive oil, *for color knowing full well the taste is completely different*.



This is the quote I was referring to.  Has nothing to do with the authenticity of the other ingredients or Daisy Martinez. 

If you're cooking for yourself, why would you alter the taste of the dish just to make the color right?


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## blissful

I love my spices and herbs, but, saffron probably won't make my everyday list or even my special occasion list. Nor truffles.

Here is a cool thing, though, one of my friends that gardens a lot, he planted saffron crocuses for a fall harvest and is going to harvest his own saffron. That is so cool. If I came into possession of some of the right kind of crocuses, well, I'd be tempted to give it a go.


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## Cooking Goddess

Here you go, *bliss*:

*Growing and Harvesting Saffron Crocus*

And two links for buying bulbs:

https://www.whiteflowerfarm.com/910891-product.html

https://www.dutchgrown.com/products/crocus-sativus




medtran49 said:


> You can buy it in very small quantities in the grocery...


I get the small bottles from Trader Joe's. Last time I bought it I paid about $5, and I've gotten three uses so far. I think there is enough left for one more nice-sized pot of soup.


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## caseydog

Andy M. said:


> Sounds like a tasty recipe but cooking 2" cubes of beef for 5-6 hours is a bit of overkill.



The recipe calls for chuck roast. That needs a good slow cook to get tender. 

CD


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## Andy M.

caseydog said:


> The recipe calls for chuck roast. That needs a good slow cook to get tender.
> 
> CD



Yes, I realize that but 5-6 hours is more than enough to cook a whole 5 pound chuck roast.  Two-inch cubes would take a lot less than 5-6 hours.


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## buckytom

Wait, annato/achiote and saffron are two entirely different beasts.

They taste nothing at all like each other. They also give most foods a different hue. Close, but no cigar.

I need to go back and read this over.


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## msmofet

skilletlicker said:


> Saffron, like fleur de sel and white truffles, is just too expensive for me.
> Will use achiote oil, annatto seeds & olive oil, for color knowing full well the taste is completely different.


 Trader Joe's Saffron is reasonably priced. And you don't need much in a recipe. I never bought or used it till I found it at TJ's. Give it a try if you have a TJ near you.


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## skilletlicker

*Adiós*

Folks, mainline it for all I care.

Yo ya no aguanto más.


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## CakePoet

High quality saffron and Good quality saffron is cheap in Sweden at around  Christmas.  I think I have a bag or two left here, still good and  yes the flavour is amazing. The closes to  saffron flavour  you can get is actually  British Mixed spice,  blind folded, my friends couldn't  says if it was cheap saffron or mixed spice, it just high quality you cant fool.

I wish I could give you some.


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## Sagittarius

*Medtran49 - Thank you.*



medtran49 said:


> we've made Mini Meatballs in Saffron Sauce Recipe | Bon Appetit several times as part of a tapas meal.




Lovely idea ..

Thank you for your feedback ..


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## Sagittarius

*Skilletickler*



skilletlicker said:


> Saffron, like fleur de sel and white truffles, is just too expensive for me.
> Will use achiote oil, annatto seeds & olive oil, for color knowing full well the taste is completely different.



Thank you for your feedbacK. 

Every year, Castilla La Mancha in Spain, Spain´s desgination of origin for Saffron has its harvest festivities .. 

With this is mind, a client of mine, is a producer and befriended a lovely gift and therefore, the question ..   

Have a nice day ..


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## Sagittarius

*Gotgarlic*



GotGarlic said:


> Persian Jeweled Rice - Jeweled Rice Recipe | Bon Appetit




Yes, I am a grand fan of Classic Persian, Irani cuisine.  They have true jewels for rices ..  

Thank you for the link. 

Have a lovely day ..


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## medtran49

GotGarlic said:


> Persian Jeweled Rice - Jeweled Rice Recipe | Bon Appetit



Missed this in all of Irma drama.  What do you serve with it?


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## Sagittarius

*Cake Poet*



CakePoet said:


> High quality saffron and Good quality saffron is cheap in Sweden at around  Christmas.  I think I have a bag or two left here, still good and  yes the flavour is amazing. The closes to  saffron flavour  you can get is actually  British Mixed spice,  blind folded, my friends couldn't  says if it was cheap saffron or mixed spice, it just high quality you cant fool.
> 
> I wish I could give you some.



Cake Poet, 

Thank you for your feedback .. 

I have just returned from Castilla La Mancha´s ( I am from   Barcelona
and live there ) and attended the festivities of the harvest ..

A Client bestowed me with a little gift of his saffran ( bio - organic) and I had also purchased some ..  It is sold pure and in "threads" .. No mixed spices .. 

So, there are just so many Paellas and Milanese Rice dishes one can prepare and so I was looking for ideas to use saffron in other dishes ..


Thank you but if i were to buy a U.K. import that they imported as well, I would be paying more for the product  than it costs me to go to Castilla La Mancha from Barcelona and have the real thing verses a mix of spices with saffron ..  ( Fly to Madrid is 30 Euros one way and 30 Euros to return ).  
From Madrid, there is a train to La Mancha .. or a bus ..  

And a hotel for 1 night ..

Still cheaper than buying imported Saffron which is very limited  and expensive in comparison to  Spain,  as we ( Spain )  are producers of  Saffron  ..

Have a lovely evening ..


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## Sagittarius

*Skilletickler - Threads of Saffran*



skilletlicker said:


> Out of idle curiosity, how do you measure 1 teaspoon of saffron threads? Pack them down into the spoon?




The classic Paella here in Barcelona or Valencian Levante regións, call for 12 saffron threads and they are soaked in ice wáter for no more than 10 minutes and then, one  pours the saffran wáter with the threads  into the rice in the pallera pan ..

I have never measured "threads of saffron "  and I have been preparing paellas for years as my family as well ..


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## GotGarlic

medtran49 said:


> Missed this in all of Irma drama.  What do you serve with it?


It's been a while since I made it. I served it with roasted chicken but I don't remember how I seasoned it. The rice was very good, though.


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## Sagittarius

*Cake Poet - Tagines*



CakePoet said:


> Curries, chicken dishes and lamb dishes.  I also have it in  desserts, cakes, rolls and cookies.




Yes,  I was thinking of a fish  Tagine .. 

Thanks alot ..


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## Sagittarius

*Skilletickler -  Achiote Oil  and Annatto seeds*



skilletlicker said:


> Saffron, like fleur de sel and white truffles, is just too expensive for me.
> Will use achiote oil, annatto seeds & olive oil, for color knowing full well the taste is completely different.




Skilletlicker, 

Thank you for posting the Video.

I have a colleague from South America who uses  Achiote Chili Peppers and Achiote Oil and Annatto Seeds.  

I have eaten Peruvian  Cuisine in restaurants however, have never cooked at home with these ingredients ..

Thanks again for the Video.  Highly inspiring ..


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## CakePoet

Most  saffron Sweden uses  in  comes from Iran or Morocco , if I remember correctly. There is Swedish saffron too but that is expensive.  I pay about 4 pounds for 1 gram, sometimes less at Christmas and sometimes more.

I will dig up my lovely recipe for  saffron  twice baked biscuits, it a favorite among my friend and neighbors. I just need to find it, my daughter has  cleaned the bookshelf  by hiding books she thinks are unimportant.


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## GotGarlic

Sagittarius said:


> Skilletlicker,
> 
> Thank you for posting the Video.
> 
> I have a colleague from South America who uses  Achiote Chili Peppers and Achiote Oil and Annatto Seeds.
> 
> I have eaten Peruvian  Cuisine in restaurants however, have never cooked at home with these ingredients ..
> 
> Thanks again for the Video.  Highly inspiring ..



Achiote is a seed, not a chile pepper.


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## Sagittarius

*Got  Garlic - My typing error but could not correct*



GotGarlic said:


> Achiote is a seed, not a chile pepper.



Yes, I know. My neighbor had told me how she uses these products ..

Fascinating .. 

Thanks for the feedback .. 
Have a lovely day ..


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## blissful

My eyes are starting to twitch.... I can't tell if it is the annatto seeds causing the reaction or just reading this thread.


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## GotGarlic

blissful said:


> My eyes are starting to twitch.... I can't tell if it is the annatto seeds causing the reaction or just reading this thread.


I know the feeling... [emoji38]


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## blissful

GotGarlic said:


> I know the feeling... [emoji38]



+1, I started to inhale the essential oil of truth, and I'm much better now. Thank you for understanding.


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## medtran49

Now that we are home and thank goodness genny is working, I was putting the spices back up that we took with. There's enough saffron left from last time we used it for at least 3 more dishes.  So for 5ish dollars, we'll get 4 uses out of the little container we bought.  I don't think that's expensive, especially if you are making paella or osso bucco and are already paying $$ for ingredients.

Actual temps on fridge were 37 and 66.  Hardly any ice had melted as there was very little water in bottom of freezer.and bottom bin of freezer.  Had some frost melt in deep freezer, so we'll have to defrost it after power comes back on to be able to get whatever is on the bottom.


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## Mad Cook

Sagittarius said:


> Good afternoon,
> 
> Of course, besides Valencian Paellas  or  Risotto Milanese, what other dishes do you use Saffron for   ?
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you in advance ..


Cornish saffron cake. Sporry, never made it so not sure what it's like


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## Mad Cook

skilletlicker said:


> Saffron, like fleur de sel and white truffles, is just too expensive for me.
> Will use achiote oil, annatto seeds & olive oil, for color knowing full well the taste is completely different.


You only use a little at a time and it keeps for ages if you store it correctly. You don't use it only for colouring. There's flavouring involved too.

If you work it out you've probably spent as much all together on your substitutes as you would on the good stuff. Always buy the saffron threads not the powder that calls itself saffron and isn't.

I'm not well off but I prefer whenever possible to use good ingredients and the right ingredients.

Buy better, buy less!


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## larry_stewart

I've tried saffron in the past.  Probably in rice dishes .
First time I got it, i opened it up and smelled it.
To me, it didn't smell all that great, but I wasn't sure if it was maybe something sitting on the shelf forever, not stored properly, cheap variety ...
So, years later, I tried it again.  Similar experience, and haven't bought it since.
I'd like to taste a dish made by someone who knows what they're doing, so i can see what i'm missing out on.


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## Dawgluver

I have a tiny bit of saffron threads from Penzeys that I got I don't how many years ago.  I think I used a couple threads maybe twice, in some rice, didn't detect any difference in flavor.


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## Sagittarius

*Mad  Cook - Thank you ..*



Mad Cook said:


> Cornish saffron cake. Sporry, never made it so not sure what it's like



Shall do some research ..

Thank you for the idea and feedback .. 

Have a nice weekend ..


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## Sagittarius

*Larry:   One must soak the threads in boiling water for 10 minutes*



larry_stewart said:


> I've tried saffron in the past.  Probably in rice dishes .
> First time I got it, i opened it up and smelled it.
> To me, it didn't smell all that great, but I wasn't sure if it was maybe something sitting on the shelf forever, not stored properly, cheap variety ...
> So, years later, I tried it again.  Similar experience, and haven't bought it since.
> I'd like to taste a dish made by someone who knows what they're doing, so i can see what i'm missing out on.



Larry, 

I am  Barcelonés and have been preparing Paellas for a long time.

Take 5 to 12 strands depending on how many people you are serving a Paella or Rice to  and soak the threads in boiling wáter for only 10 minutes in a glass bowl.   

Then,  pour the wáter with  the saffron threads into your rice in your Pallera (pan to cook paella, metal with 2 handles ) when the rice is simmering .. 

This is how we do it here ..

Have a lovely weekend ..


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## medtran49

While looking through our digital cookbook for another recipe, I came across another saffron recipe, yogurt and saffron marinated lamb chops that are grilled.  It's not available online anymore and I copied and pasted, so can't post on here, but will send it IM if anybody wants it.  We liked it, but had forgotten about it, been a long time since we made it.


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## buckytom

Hmm, a marinade? Sounds interesting.

I've had something similar once, but the saffron infused yoghurt was served as a sauce to go with the plainly roasted lamb.


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## di reston

At the moment I'm researching old English recipes, notably 'The Forme of Cury A Roll of Ancient English Cookery' compiled about 1390 A.D. Saffron was an important ingredient in many dishes dating back to that era, and it was cultivated in England. It was an ingredient in both savoury and sweet dishes then. I need to investigate further. The evidence is in Medieval texts, which are quite difficult to read, but I know that it was used in the kitchens of the wealthy. More news anon. The Middle English texts are fairly difficult to read, but I read English at University, and have grasped some knowledge of it. Whether those recipes still exist remains to be seen, but I do know that it was a precious ingredient in much of the cookery.

di reston

Enough is never as good as a feast     Oscar Wilde


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## taxlady

My understanding was that saffron was not uncommon across Europe in the middle ages. It would be locally grown, because they had loads of very cheap labour.


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## Sagittarius

*Di Reston:  Savory & Sweet*



di reston said:


> At the moment I'm researching old English recipes, notably 'The Forme of Cury A Roll of Ancient English Cookery' compiled about 1390 A.D. Saffron was an important ingredient in many dishes dating back to that era, and it was cultivated in England. It was an ingredient in both savoury and sweet dishes then. I need to investigate further. The evidence is in Medieval texts, which are quite difficult to read, but I know that it was used in the kitchens of the wealthy. More news anon. The Middle English texts are fairly difficult to read, but I read English at University, and have grasped some knowledge of it. Whether those recipes still exist remains to be seen, but I do know that it was a precious ingredient in much of the cookery.
> 
> di reston
> 
> Enough is never as good as a feast     Oscar Wilde




Medieval texts are fascinating however, yes challenging to read.  

Irani (Persians) and Turkish cuisines have used saffron since the VI century .. The Silk Route ..  It is also quite common in desserts in Iran and Turkey .. 

Spain is  a fairly large producer (The Rurals of Toledo, is  the Designation of Origin) so, I believe the Moors had brought it over to The Castilla La Mancha.   Our Saffron Harvest is the last week of September every year. 

As a matter of fact, we are flying to Madrid from Barcelona, and then shall rent a car and drive to the appellation ..  

We, as a family (My Parents, My 2 daughter in laws and my in laws and I)  prepare Paellas quite often for a Sunday lunch. 

Thank you for the interesting post ..


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