# French Bread??



## Cooking4Fun (Nov 30, 2020)

https://www.tasteofhome.com/recipes/sesame-french-bread/

I tried this recipe, but it didn't taste like the French bread made in Jr. High. I would try to find my home economics teacher if kids still had that class.

Bread came out moist (maybe underbaked) on inside, and crispy on outside. I expected it would be dryer inside and with larger air pockets and webbing. Also lacked salt and cornmeal type flavor. This was all pretty solid. I replaced canola oil with olive oil because it's what I had, and I imagine traditional French bread probably existed before 1970s when canola oil was first used. I was confused by putting cornmeal on first, then egg white which wipes it away. And the instructions mentioned a baking sheet and a pan.

Any tips or clarifications for this recipe?


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## pepperhead212 (Dec 1, 2020)

That doesn't look like a traditional "French bread".  They usually don't have any fats or sugars added - this is something that will make the crumb tighter, and less open, as you noted.  And that isn't much salt for that amount of flour - 1 1/2 tb would be better.  And you'll get better flavor with longer rising times - I almost always start it at least the day before (with much less yeast).  And French bread isn't normally brushed with egg white  - that was something for helping the sesame seed stick, but usually plain French bread is sprayed with water, or steamed, in commercial ovens.  And the cornmeal is supposed to be sprinkled on the greased pan, not the bread itself - it's just on the bottom, more for helping the bread come off the pan or stone, not so much for flavor.


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## dragnlaw (Dec 1, 2020)

I can't say for sure on the ingredients.  I agree with pepperhead though, it doesn't sound like the French breads I've ever made.  It just sounds like a regular bread recipe baked outside a loaf pan. 


They grease a sheet-pan, which is not necessary, as they are sprinkling cornmeal on the pan, not the bread, to help remove it. To me, the sticking of the cornmeal to the greased pan is more liable to burn. 

Also they do say to put the egg wash on first and then the sesame seeds.  This gives an entirely different finish to the bread.
You could still try adding a pan of water to the bottom of the oven for steam. I do that and I actually use a spritzer on the bread and into the oven for steam.

The use of the words pan and sheet are, in this case, are meaning the same thing, a sheet-pan.

I also feel that 400 is not really hot enough for traditional french bread - 450 or ?? I think is more in line with crusty french breads.

Probably the most "french" part of this bread is the slashes on top, and yeah, ok, the corn meal.


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## RCJoe (Dec 1, 2020)

Home Economics teachers today are generally referred to as "Family Consumer Sciences" instructors.  (FCS Teachers)  This started in 1994
to broaden the scope of Home Economics with the objective of building more functional families with the changes of time.

FCS:



> Family and consumer sciences is the comprehensive body
> of skills, research, and knowledge, with a dedicated focus
> on helping families and individuals make informed decision
> s about their well-being, rela
> ...





It sounds like Jr High was a ways back with canola just becoming available.  I'm sure some of your ingredients today may have a different flavor quality and I'm thinking the yeast contributing to that most of all.


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## Andy M. (Dec 1, 2020)

The French have more than one type of bread. If you are looking for a baguette the of bread, you need a different recipe.

https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/classic-baguettes-recipe


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## Katie H (Dec 1, 2020)

Nothing at all like the recipe I use for French bread/baguette and I've made plenty.  Over 100 loaves a few years ago to help a friend with a fundraiser project.

My recipe only includes flour, water, salt, sugar and yeast.  After I form the loaves, I slash them and brush with an egg white wash.  Sometimes I add sesame or poppy seeds.  Depends on the mood I'm in.


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## Cooking4Fun (Dec 1, 2020)

RCJoe said:


> Home Economics teachers today are generally referred to as "Family Consumer Sciences" instructors.  (FCS Teachers)  This started in 1994
> to broaden the scope of Home Economics with the objective of building more functional families with the changes of time.
> 
> FCS:
> ...



I was in 7th grade in 1994. Still was home economics at my school. And obesity rates have only increased after that. Not sure the nutrition stuff sunk in.


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## Cooking4Fun (Dec 1, 2020)

This recipe also wasn't clear on the amount of flour that is to be used. Basically 4 cups to start and eyeball it after that? I think I settled at approximately 6 cups but prefer a definite number.

As far as salt. How much is too much? A friend tells me it kills the yeast.


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## msmofet (Dec 1, 2020)

Katie H said:


> Nothing at all like the recipe I use for French bread/baguette and I've made plenty.  Over 100 loaves a few years ago to help a friend with a fundraiser project.
> 
> My recipe only includes flour, water, salt, sugar and yeast.  After I form the loaves, I slash them and brush with an egg white wash.  Sometimes I add sesame or poppy seeds.  Depends on the mood I'm in.


Do you slash and egg wash before the last rise?


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## Katie H (Dec 1, 2020)

msmofet said:


> Do you slash and egg wash before the last rise?


 
I slash and egg wash after I put the dough in the pan and, yes, before the last rise.

I use my microwave as a proofing box.  While I shape the loaves, I heat a cereal bowl full of water on HIGH power for 4 minutes.  I leave the bowl of hot water in the microwave as the dough completes its final rise.


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## RCJoe (Dec 1, 2020)

Cooking4Fun wrote:



> I was in 7th grade in 1994. Still was home economics at my school. And  obesity rates have only increased after that. Not sure the nutrition  stuff sunk in.



Not long before you were born soft drink companies began using HFCS to sweeten those beverages.  Soft drinks have since been a leading cause of child obesity due to all of the sugar they contain.  

You were sort of in on the ground floor with High Fructose Corn Sweeteners and by 1988 the practice of "free refills" began to become common at fast food places.  So I'm sure you saw obesity on the move.

It wasn't until 2004 that the book "Super Size Me" was published and chronicled the food industry's technologies which led to the epidemic of obesity that you witnessed.


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## Alix (Dec 1, 2020)

Katie H said:


> I use my microwave as a proofing box.  While I shape the loaves, I heat a cereal bowl full of water on HIGH power for 4 minutes.  I leave the bowl of hot water in the microwave as the dough completes its final rise.



Brilliant. I never thought of this but I'm on it for my next loaf. Thanks Katie.


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## Cooking4Fun (Dec 1, 2020)

RCJoe said:


> Cooking4Fun wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I might have pop like a ginger ale once a week or month tops. Would be nice if they had a plain sugar version. By the way Taco Bell started the free refill thing. But in any event. HFCS shouldn't cause obesity if students understood nutrition and to avoid most sweeteners. The DNA damage can speed along senescence which increases aging and inflammation which isn't yet reversible.


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## taxlady (Dec 2, 2020)

Cooking4Fun said:


> I might have pop like a ginger ale once a week or month tops. Would be nice if they had a plain sugar version. By the way Taco Bell started the free refill thing. But in any event. HFCS shouldn't cause obesity if students understood nutrition and to avoid most sweeteners. The DNA damage can speed along senescence which increases aging and inflammation which isn't yet reversible.



There are often plain sugar versions of soft drinks available during Passover. Look for the ones that are kosher for Passover. A friend told me about that when I mentioned that I didn't like the updated versions of Coca Cola.


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## Cooking4Fun (Dec 2, 2020)

Must French bread be moisturized as it bakes or just during proofing?


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## Andy M. (Dec 2, 2020)

Cooking4Fun said:


> Must French bread be moisturized as it bakes or just during proofing?



Moistures in the oven creates a bread with a harder/crispier crust. I think the bowl of water in the microwave was to provide constant heat to  help rising, not moisture for the dough.


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## Katie H (Dec 2, 2020)

Cooking4Fun said:


> Must French bread be moisturized as it bakes or just during proofing?



I've never added moisture as it bakes.  Always seems to come out great.


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## Cooking4Fun (Dec 8, 2020)

https://www.food.com/recipe/traditional-real-deal-french-bread-460085

Tried this recipe. Looks good, but didn't really brown at all. What controls the browning?


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## Cooking4Fun (Dec 9, 2020)

Tasted it. Tastes same as the non-french french bread and was densely packed and moist. Not at all what I was hoping for except the outside appearance which seemed correct besides being pale after 30 minutes baking.


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## jennyema (Dec 11, 2020)

Cooking4Fun said:


> Tasted it. Tastes same as the non-french french bread and was densely packed and moist. Not at all what I was hoping for except the outside appearance which seemed correct besides being pale after 30 minutes baking.




Try recipes from better sources

The NYT no-knead bread recipe has been around for many years and it’s foolproof and terrific

https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/11376-no-knead-bread


King Arthur’s recipes are well-tested.  This one takes some work but comes out great

https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/classic-baguettes-recipe


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## dragnlaw (Dec 11, 2020)

I've often been trying links to NYT recipes.  Unfortunately, they want a subscription once your free trial is over. 

too bad - so sad   as I've heard about many good recipes from there.


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## jennyema (Dec 11, 2020)

dragnlaw said:


> I've often been trying links to NYT recipes.  Unfortunately, they want a subscription once your free trial is over.
> 
> too bad - so sad   as I've heard about many good recipes from there.




So are you saying my link doesn’t work ?

The recipe is all over the place on the interwebs ...

Here it is from food and wine 
https://www.foodandwine.com/recipes/no-knead-bread


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## dragnlaw (Dec 11, 2020)

no, no, your link worked just fine!  It is that_ they won't let me in without subscribing.  _ which I do not want to do.

Thanks for the Food & Wine link.  I've actually made that but as I couldn't open/read the one from the NYT,  I didn't realize they were the same style.

I have several others like that - Love that Bread!


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## GotGarlic (Dec 11, 2020)

Cooking4Fun said:


> This recipe also wasn't clear on the amount of flour that is to be used. Basically 4 cups to start and eyeball it after that? I think I settled at approximately 6 cups but prefer a definite number.


That's the nature of baking bread. Variables like humidity change the amount of flour needed from batch to batch. You'll learn over time how to know when you've added enough flour. 



Cooking4Fun said:


> As far as salt. How much is too much? A friend tells me it kills the yeast.


It doesn't kill the yeast. Use the amount in the recipe. And as jennyemma said, use a reliable recipe. The NYT no-knead bread is easy and delicious.


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## GotGarlic (Dec 11, 2020)

It might be a good idea to read about the basic process of making bread, to help you understand how it works, rather than trial and error and then asking questions. I hope this helps. 

https://bakerbettie.com/intro-bread-making-basic-process/


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## Cooking4Fun (Dec 11, 2020)

jennyema said:


> Try recipes from better sources
> 
> The NYT no-knead bread recipe has been around for many years and it’s foolproof and terrific
> 
> ...




First recipe requires an account. Second recipe, does it require a mixer or does quarter turn kneeding work?


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## GotGarlic (Dec 11, 2020)

Cooking4Fun said:


> First recipe requires an account. Second recipe, does it require a mixer or does quarter turn kneeding work?


You can knead the dough. This is one of the instructions: "To make the dough: Mix and knead everything together — by hand, mixer or bread machine set on the dough cycle — to make a soft, somewhat smooth dough; it should be cohesive, but the surface may still be a bit rough."


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## Cooking4Fun (Dec 11, 2020)

Anyone have a video for this type of process? I wasn't able to imagine it.

"Method 2: Slow/Slap Bench: Begin to knead your dough, but this technique will be somewhat different than your typical quarter turn kneading. With this, the dough is flattened out slightly, then roughly fold dough into a single book fold ((Fold onto the second third and last third onto the second third)), held at one end (dough shape will be oblong) and slapped down on the work surface. Refolded and repeated about 850 times. YES 850! lol Once this is accomplished, dough is rounded into a ball and placed within the bowl to rise. 90-120 minutes, covered with plastic. (while this sounds outlandish, this is the traditional method and the texture is UN-BE-Leavable.) I also find that this method is less tiresome than normal kneading."


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## dragnlaw (Dec 12, 2020)

Don't know if this is the type of video you want but I found it very enlightening! Wacka- slam- wacka- slam 

french baguette


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## taxlady (Dec 12, 2020)

dragnlaw said:


> Don't know if this is the type of video you want but I found it very enlightening! Wacka- slam- wacka- slam
> 
> french baguette




I don't see the link. When I hit quote, I can see it. The syntax is wrong for this forum. I'll try posting the link so it shows the video here on DC.

If you want a YouTube video to show here on DC, just copy the URL from the address bar of the page the video is on and paste it here. Don't get the URL from the share button on YouTube. You don't need to use the link icon on the reply or quote page.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m08i8oXpFB0


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## msmofet (Dec 12, 2020)

The look of the page is strange for some reason.


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## Cooking4Fun (Dec 12, 2020)

Thanks guys. Saw this video already. People say he sounds like Winnie the Pooh.


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## Cooking4Fun (Dec 12, 2020)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2H0msYMpMJ8

Maybe this is it. I can't imagine doing even this 850 times. Lol.


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## GotGarlic (Dec 12, 2020)

Cooking4Fun said:


> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2H0msYMpMJ8
> 
> Maybe this is it. I can't imagine doing even this 850 times. Lol.


Lol, that's what a stand mixer is for [emoji1787]

My late MIL's recipe for springerle Christmas cookies calls for beating the batter for 30 minutes, and it's a very stiff batter. I never made it before DH bought me a stand mixer for Christmas one year.


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## pepperhead212 (Dec 12, 2020)

I remember an old Julia Child show in which she did that slap and fold method, for making bread dough.  Not sure if it was a French Chef show, or a later, color show.  Maybe she did it more than once! She was more violent slapping it, but you could tell not as much flour was added using that method, resulting in a much looser, more hydrated dough, with a more open crumb.


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## taxlady (Dec 12, 2020)

Okay, so I'm weird. That was something around 360 slaps and folds. Yes, I counted, but I'm sure I'm off a bit. So, I don't think 850 is that hard to imagine. In some ways, it looks easier than regular pushing the dough.


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## Andy M. (Dec 12, 2020)

OK, I'm not doing that. Can you say "Kitchen Aid"?

Also, I'm amazed how much time he spent at the beginning of the video scraping off every last spec of dough from the bucket and scraper. Even I am not that bad.


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## Cooking4Fun (Dec 13, 2020)

Any recipes for bread without carbs or glutton? Lol.


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