# Is my black pepper POSSESSED?



## BurnsWater (Apr 6, 2021)

I like a little fresh ground black pepper on most things, so when  I tried to make steamed cabbage in the microwave, I gave it a few grinds. I nuked it, tasted it, it was good… nuked it, tasted it, it was good… nuked it, and then all of a sudden the pepper flavor was REALLY intense! My otherwise perfect cabbage was ruined! I threw a lot of vinegar on there to neutralize the pepper, and made it into sort of coleslaw, and swore to not use black pepper on it next time.  



Next time came, and this time I seasoned the cabbage with spicy Old Bay. It's got a little bit of black pepper in it, as many spice mixes do, but not much, and it wasn't fresh ground, so I thought I'd be fine… but the same thing happened! After having microwaved it for a while, all of a sudden the previously undetectable black pepper became overwhelming!


I've done every Google search I can think of, and can't find any mention of this phenomenon. Before deciding on supernatural causes, I thought I'd toss this out and see if anyone knew what the heck was going on here… And how I can fix it!


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## Andy M. (Apr 6, 2021)

You're not supposed to discuss demonic pepper possession in public. The pepper gods will not be pleased.

Next time, try adding the pepper at the table.


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## BurnsWater (Apr 6, 2021)

Andy M. said:


> You're not supposed to discuss demonic pepper possession in public. The pepper gods will not be pleased.
> 
> Next time, try adding the pepper at the table.




LOL!


I haven't been able to figure out how to get a couple of grinds of pepper to season thousands of little shreds of cabbage, without the pepper being in the water... Is there a secret to that?


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## pepperhead212 (Apr 6, 2021)

Pray tell, why would you only use 
 "a couple of grinds of pepper", to season thousands of shreds???

BTW, welcome to the forum!


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## Andy M. (Apr 6, 2021)

BurnsWater said:


> LOL!
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to figure out how to get a couple of grinds of pepper to season thousands of little shreds of cabbage, without the pepper being in the water... Is there a secret to that?





Yes, there is a secret to it.


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## BurnsWater (Apr 6, 2021)

pepperhead212 said:


> Pray tell, why would you only use
> "a couple of grinds of pepper", to season thousands of shreds???
> 
> BTW, welcome to the forum!




Thanks, LOL! I'm looking for the pepper to give my food a little boost, not to make me throw up; a couple of grinds gives just the right amount of pepper at first… before becoming WAY too much later on, by a process that I hope to learn to circumvent.


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## BurnsWater (Apr 6, 2021)

Andy M. said:


> Yes, there is a secret to it.




LOL!!!!!!!


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## Andy M. (Apr 6, 2021)

BurnsWater said:


> LOL!!!!!!!



TV chefs make a show of grinding pepper over food from a height. This actually makes a difference. Grinding for a height gives you a more even distribution of the pepper over the food below. Give it a try.


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## BurnsWater (Apr 6, 2021)

Andy M. said:


> TV chefs make a show of grinding pepper over food from a height. This actually makes a difference. Grinding for a height gives you a more even distribution of the pepper over the food below. Give it a try.




That's useful for future reference, thank you!


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## Rocklobster (Apr 6, 2021)

Not all black peppercorns are created equal..maybe you got a stronger than usual batch..Tellicherry peppercorns are considered more stronger and thus more flavorful..you never know..that, combined with the  radiation treatment you administered could have created a monster...


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## BurnsWater (Apr 6, 2021)

Rocklobster said:


> Not all black peppercorns are created equal..maybe you got a stronger than usual batch..Tellicherry peppercorns are considered more stronger and thus more flavorful..you never know..that, combined with the  radiation treatment you administered could have created a monster...




I'm sure that there are variations between batches, but this bizarre effect has occurred only with the steamed cabbage, and not with anything else I've used the black pepper for, either before or since.


I was assuming that this was some sort of known issue… But am I in fact the only person who has pepper becoming 1000 times stronger when microwaving cabbage?


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## WhateverYouWant (Apr 6, 2021)

While I have little to no experience microwaving black pepper, is it possible that you are burning it (black pepper does burn)?

Try putting a small amount of the same grind in a small bowl, with the same relative moisture present in the cabbage, and see how long you can microwave it before it goes nasty.


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## BurnsWater (Apr 6, 2021)

ScottinPollock said:


> While I have little to no experience microwaving black pepper, is it possible that you are burning it (black pepper does burn)?
> 
> Try putting a small amount of the same grind in a small bowl, with the same relative moisture present in the cabbage, and see how long you can microwave it before it goes nasty.




I guess it's possible to burn just about anything, even in suspension in liquid, if you try hard enough, LOL… But if it was burned, wouldn't it smell burned, taste burned, or at least have a flavor or odor that becomes off in some way, rather than just getting stronger? This isn't a "bad" flavor, if I was making for example a sausage casserole, it would be perfectly acceptable… it's just not acceptable for cabbage, and it's radically different than the flavor it started out with.


Have I had a unique experience here, TWICE? No one else has ever had black pepper suddenly become much stronger while it's being cooked?


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef (Apr 6, 2021)

BurnsWater said:


> Is my black pepper POSSESSED?



No, you didn't pay your pepper exorcist, so it was REPOSSESSED!


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## BurnsWater (Apr 6, 2021)

Sir_Loin_of_Beef said:


> No, you didn't pay your pepper exorcist, so it was REPOSSESSED!




LOL!!!!!


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## dragnlaw (Apr 6, 2021)

Andy M. said:


> You're not supposed to discuss demonic pepper possession in public. The pepper gods will not be pleased.
> 
> *Next time, try adding the pepper at the table*.



But you could also not add it at the beginning of steaming your cabbage.  Wait until it is almost done - grind some in, toss, finish steaming.  I imagine it will be fine. 

Let us know!


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## BurnsWater (Apr 6, 2021)

dragnlaw said:


> But you could also not add it at the beginning of steaming your cabbage.  Wait until it is almost done - grind some in, toss, finish steaming.  I imagine it will be fine.
> 
> Let us know!




I dunno, I'm a little bit dubious that 2 grinds of pepper can be distributed throughout 3 quarts of shredded cabbage to flavor all of it right at the end… But more than that, what I'm hoping to discover is what is happening, and why… although it looks like no one else here has ever cooked something with black pepper where the black pepper suddenly got 100 times stronger towards the end. 



How about any seasoning, in any dish, prepared in any manner, that got wildly stronger towards the end of cooking? Anyone?


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## WhateverYouWant (Apr 6, 2021)

BurnsWater said:


> Have I had a unique experience here, TWICE? No one else has ever had black pepper suddenly become much stronger while it's being cooked?



Not at all. Burnt black pepper will be much stronger in flavor (and a bit more bitter), think blackened redfish or other blackened cajun recipes. Even lightly toasting it will make it stronger.

I have no idea of the sensitivity of pepper to microwaves so why run the little experiment I suggested?


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## BurnsWater (Apr 6, 2021)

ScottinPollock said:


> Not at all. Burnt black pepper will be much stronger in flavor (and a bit more bitter), think blackened redfish or other blackened cajun recipes. Even lightly toasting it will make it stronger.
> 
> I have no idea of the sensitivity of pepper to microwaves so why run the little experiment I suggested?




The pepper was absolutely, positively, NOT burned. Something that is burned will have a distinctive smell and flavor, and there was no hint of burned smell or flavor. The problem here is that the taste of the pepper became STRONGER, as if someone had snuck into my kitchen and put another 100 grinds of pepper into the food; the pepper tasted EXACTLY like black pepper always tastes. No burned taste, no alteration of flavor at all. If pepper or anything else is burned, that's a result of simply cooking it too long, and you cook it less time. The situation here is that I ended up with perfectly steamed cabbage with wildly exaggerated pepper flavor, even when the only black pepper that was in there was the small amount presents in a spice mix.  



So now, I'm sure I'll learn something very interesting about food preparation! I put fresh ground pepper in water in a bowl in the microwave, put a lid on it, and microwaved it stop and go, like I do checking for doneness of food, checking the flavor each time, for a full half an hour. At no time was there any alteration in the intensity of pepper flavor. I look forward to how this sheds light on my experiences with the steamed cabbage!


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## dragnlaw (Apr 7, 2021)

Have you made that exact recipe for cabbage without the pepper at all?  

Just could be, it is your cabbage that has developed a peppery taste.

Or your taste buds have become very sensitive to the peppercorns and cabbage in that combo. 

Also try whole peppercorns boiled in the steaming water first, remove peppercorns add cabbage, etc...


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Apr 7, 2021)

Let's look at this objectively.  Pepper, black, pink, white, it doesn't matter is highly aromatic.  The oils i the peppercorns carry the flavor throughout whatever is seasoned with the spice.  Before it is heated, there is the release of aromatic compounds through osmosis.  When heated by any means, frying, baking, microwaves, etc., the peppercorns molecules become agitated, and begin to released their flavors and aromas at an accelerated rate.  From this, you can extrapolate that the pepper flavor would be milder before heating.  You could also assume that because of osmosis, foods seasoned with pepper would gain a more pronounced pepper flavor over time, as more of the flavor components of the peppercorn would be released,  In other words, your Cole slaw would have a more pronounced pepper flavor the next day after it was made.

Hope this makes sense to you.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of he North


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## jennyema (Apr 7, 2021)

Microwaving could also have released volatile oils in the pepper, making it stronger


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## BurnsWater (Apr 7, 2021)

dragnlaw said:


> Have you made that exact recipe for cabbage without the pepper at all?
> 
> Just could be, it is your cabbage that has developed a peppery taste.
> 
> ...




No, I haven't made the exact recipe without pepper before; what does that tell us?  



With all due respect, your other suggestions kind of seem like wild guesses, and while I appreciate the effort, I need to hear from someone who has actually experienced something like this before, and what they did to fix it... other than never using pepper or any spice mixes containing any pepper in them ever again, lol.


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## BurnsWater (Apr 7, 2021)

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> Let's look at this objectively.  Pepper, black, pink, white, it doesn't matter is highly aromatic.  The oils i the peppercorns carry the flavor throughout whatever is seasoned with the spice.  Before it is heated, there is the release of aromatic compounds through osmosis.  When heated by any means, frying, baking, microwaves, etc., the peppercorns molecules become agitated, and begin to released their flavors and aromas at an accelerated rate.  From this, you can extrapolate that the pepper flavor would be milder before heating.  You could also assume that because of osmosis, foods seasoned with pepper would gain a more pronounced pepper flavor over time, as more of the flavor components of the peppercorn would be released,  In other words, your Cole slaw would have a more pronounced pepper flavor the next day after it was made.
> 
> Hope this makes sense to you.
> 
> Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of he North





jennyema said:


> Microwaving could also have released volatile oils in the pepper, making it stronger






I wish I could get across just how much stronger this pepper flavor got; it went from a little hint of pepper flavor to so strong that it was absolutely inedible! (And my husband said the same thing, so this is not something unique to my taste buds.) None of the other recipes that I've made with the same pepper from the same grinder in the same microwave have had any issues with pepper flavor after cooking, much less this extreme effect. And the same thing goes for other recipes I've made with Old Bay, which has a little bit of black pepper in it that was enough to re-create the effect. 



If what happened was just a normal physical process, why doesn't it happen with EVERY recipe, and why haven't I had 20 people telling me that pepper ALWAYS does that, so don't add more than one molecule of pepper to any dish or it's going to be inedible from pepper flavor, LOL?


I was assuming that this would be a known issue that many people had experienced, and they could tell me what they altered to eliminate the problem… but it appears that NOBODY has ever had this happen before! At this point, all I can do is just give up making cabbage, and move on to other things, thanks for trying!


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## Andy M. (Apr 7, 2021)

Clearly. from our responses, it is NOT a known issue and we have not experienced it. At least to the degree you described.

We have simply trying to help you with our best efforts based on experience. Sorry we can't supply the "AHA MOMENT".


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## dragnlaw (Apr 7, 2021)

From what I gather this was your first attempt ever at making steamed cabbage? 

I just did a quick google for steaming cabbage.  I went to 10 sites.  Not one of them added their salt and pepper during the steaming process.  

I believe I mentioned earlier, why don't you try adding the pepper at the end?  It seems to work for every one else?


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## BurnsWater (Apr 7, 2021)

dragnlaw said:


> From what I gather this was your first attempt ever at making steamed cabbage?
> 
> I just did a quick google for steaming cabbage.  I went to 10 sites.  Not one of them added their salt and pepper during the steaming process.
> 
> I believe I mentioned earlier, why don't you try adding the pepper at the end?  It seems to work for every one else?




I've been describing my first 2 attempts at making steamed cabbage. 



All of the recipes I collected for steaming cabbage specified adding salt and pepper BEFORE steaming, lol! 



I've tried adding pepper at the end of a recipe; the few flakes that are all I want can only flavor the few bites that they touch, not the entire mass of food, no matter how much I stir. If other people are happy with that, that's wonderful for them; I only want food where the seasoning exists evenly throughout. Different strokes, I guess!


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## Cooking Goddess (Apr 7, 2021)

Since pepper does not dissolve in solution, you still have pepper flakes and flavor only where the pepper flakes stick. Maybe, just maybe, the answer is to add only whole peppercorns to the dish of cabbage and stir it frequently during the cooking process? But then there is the bother of picking them out completely, or that strong taste of pepper will be even more prominent!

Me, personally, prefer salt on my cabbage, as long as it's fried up with noodles.


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## BurnsWater (Apr 8, 2021)

Cooking Goddess said:


> Since pepper does not dissolve in solution, you still have pepper flakes and flavor only where the pepper flakes stick. Maybe, just maybe, the answer is to add only whole peppercorns to the dish of cabbage and stir it frequently during the cooking process? But then there is the bother of picking them out completely, or that strong taste of pepper will be even more prominent!
> 
> Me, personally, prefer salt on my cabbage, as long as it's fried up with noodles.




Something doesn't need to DISSOLVE in solution to transfer FLAVOR to the solution, right? Haven't you ever put fresh ground pepper in casserole, or in soup?  



What benefit would there be of using whole peppercorns? Or more precisely, what benefit would there be to make it worth cracking a tooth if I didn't get them all picked out, lol? What would be the benefit of frequent stirring? How would they fix the problem?



Are you talking about Haluska? I know a couple of ladies who are Hungarian or part Hungarian who make it, but not very often because of calorie concerns.


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## taxlady (Apr 8, 2021)

I'm beginning to think that your pepper is possessed. I have never heard of this before and have certainly never experienced it. OTOH, I have never made steamed cabbage.


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## Cooking Goddess (Apr 8, 2021)

When I make soup, I put small aromatics like peppercorns, garlic cloves, and bay leaves into a tea ball so it's easy to remove them. Himself likes fresh ground pepper on many of his foods, so I leave it to him to zest up his serving. 

I figured the stirring would distribute the pepper flavor throughout the entire casserole. I'm just spitballing here, so don't take my suggestions as gospel. [emoji38] I'm as confused as you are. 

Yup, haluski. Polish/Slovak soul food. We have it only once or twice a year, so we don't worry if it's health food or not.


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## BurnsWater (Apr 8, 2021)

Cooking Goddess said:


> When I make soup, I put small aromatics like peppercorns, garlic cloves, and bay leaves into a tea ball so it's easy to remove them. Himself likes fresh ground pepper on many of his foods, so I leave it to him to zest up his serving.
> 
> I figured the stirring would distribute the pepper flavor throughout the entire casserole. I'm just spitballing here, so don't take my suggestions as gospel. [emoji38] I'm as confused as you are.
> 
> Yup, haluski. Polish/Slovak soul food. We have it only once or twice a year, so we don't worry if it's health food or not.




I think putting all your "chunks" in a tea ball so you can easily be sure you've completely removed them afterwards is a brilliant idea! You could market a modified version of that, and just call it something else; I think people would buy it!


It seems like every country in that part of Europe has a pretty similar version of the cabbage/noodle dish, with a similar name… And you always hear it referred to as comfort food, which is so hard to imagine for Americans, who mostly only eat cabbage on March 17!


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## GotGarlic (Apr 8, 2021)

BurnsWater said:


> I think putting all your "chunks" in a tea ball so you can easily be sure you've completely removed them afterwards is a brilliant idea! You could market a modified version of that, and just call it something else; I think people would buy it!



It's already out there - it's called a bouquet garni. The classic French recipe typically includes peppercorns, thyme, bay leaves and parsley stems (reserve the leaves for garnish) and tied up in cheesecloth. A tea ball, of course, is reusable. People often customize the herbs and spices to their taste.



BurnsWater said:


> It seems like every country in that part of Europe has a pretty similar version of the cabbage/noodle dish, with a similar name… And you always hear it referred to as comfort food, which is so hard to imagine for Americans, who mostly only eat cabbage on March 17!


Central Europe traded hands during hundreds of years of war before WWII pretty much ended it, so their recipes traveled with the royalty, the nobility and their armies.

I see you're in San Diego. Most of the early settlers in the Northeast and Midwest were peasants who came from Central Europe and brought their food traditions with them. Cabbage and various accompaniments are still pretty popular there.


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## BurnsWater (Apr 8, 2021)

GotGarlic said:


> It's already out there - it's called a bouquet garni. The classic French recipe typically includes peppercorns, thyme, bay leaves and parsley stems (reserve the leaves for garnish) and tied up in cheesecloth. A tea ball, of course, is reusable. People often customize the herbs and spices to their taste.
> 
> Central Europe traded hands during hundreds of years of war before WWII pretty much ended it, so their recipes traveled with the royalty and their armies.
> 
> I see you're in San Diego. Most of the early settlers in the Northeast and Midwest came from Central Europe and brought their food traditions with them. Cabbage and various accompaniments are still pretty popular there.






Cool French term! I can just feel my IQ going up! If someone sold a metal or even a plastic version of the…  bouquet… yeah, what you said, LOL… I think there might be a market.  



I have a Ukrainian neighbor whose mother makes a traditional cabbage roll that is nearly indistinguishable from the traditional cabbage roll that a Hungarian friend makes, the seasonings are just a little bit different. Good ideas get around! The Hungarian friend makes Haluska with kielbasa and most of a stick of butter; the half-Hungarian friend doesn't use sausage, and just a little bit of butter, but she's also part Czech and Romanian... and Jewish, which might be a different food tradition. Fascinating stuff!


I like cabbage, and I wish there was a restaurant near me that sold some version of it… Other than ASIAN dishes with cabbage, which are a very different thing of course. I live in a highly Filipino part of SD, so there's a lot of their food here… I've got to say, I could live on poncit and lumpia!


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## expatgirl (Apr 10, 2021)

maybe a little of sugar would have cut the peppery taste.....sorry it was ruined for you.......been there and done that.....lots!


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## BurnsWater (Apr 10, 2021)

expatgirl said:


> maybe a little of sugar would have cut the peppery taste.....sorry it was ruined for you.......been there and done that.....lots!




Useful to know, thank you! I threw a bunch of vinegar in there, which neutralized a lot of pepper flavor… but there was just so MUCH of it that it was still too much. My steamed cabbage ended up being essentially overly-peppery coleslaw, LOL!


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## Termy (Jul 1, 2021)

Peppers are like that. It is the oils and whatsnot in them that has the flavor. 

Note any pepper you put in chili for example does in fact increase its influence on the flavor more as it sits. Moreso if it cooks. 

Black pepper is no exception. 

T


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