# Being a houseguest



## VeraBlue (Sep 6, 2006)

I'm a child of the 60's.  I was taught that if you borrowed something from a neighbour, you returned it.  If you borrowed an ingredient, you gave them some of what you made, plus returned the ingredient.   If you went visiting, you never ever went empty handed.

Oddly enough, I don't know many people who were taught this.  Or the attitudes have changed along with the inability to pen a coherent thought complete with appropriate grammar.

My boyfriend and I (he's the same way I am...never go empty handed) were recently invited to a birthday/bbq.  The invite clearly stated no gifts.  Great.  It also said plenty of food and beverages.  Fine.  Naturally, we stopped at a local bakery first.  Closed for the holiday weekend.  Same thing with the second bakery.   We ended up at a diner, buying a $32 strawberry shortcake.  I was happy to do it because it felt right.  The hostess received it graciously.  It was displayed with the other desserts.  It made me happy to bring it, it made others happy to eat it.

But no one else did it.   I've had parties and parties and parties here at home.  If I invite 50 people, 5 will bring something.  5.  What happened?   Did I miss some social revolution where even the smallest gesture of a rose from one's own garden is considered too much effort?

I most surely am not trying to guilt anyone into a confession, but I do wonder...  do people not consider it necessary to present a small gift when visiting?  (I don't necessarily mean visiting family....)


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## GB (Sep 6, 2006)

Hmmm I have not noticed this trend. Every party/bbq/event I have been to everyone has brought something to the host/hostess. Some bring beer or wine, some bring desserts, some bring flowers, but I can't think of a single person I know of who has ever showed up empty handed.


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## jkath (Sep 6, 2006)

Verablue, the epidemic is way out west too. I like to bring gifties when visiting, usually fruit or flowers from my garden, or perhaps some cookies I've just baked. I have a couple of friends who are the same way, but many are not. 
Kind of sad, I think. However, I'm going to keep my gifties coming, and maybe they'll catch on again


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## pdswife (Sep 6, 2006)

I always bring something... I have to or I feel guilty the whole time I'm there.  I also instist on helping with clean up.  Even if it's just moving the dishes from the table to the kitchen.

Most of my friends are pretty helpful and bring things also.. but there are a few who don't bring anything and never offer to help.  It bugs me.. but what can ya do?


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## MarionW (Sep 6, 2006)

Vera, I agree.  There seems to be a trend of "not so polite" or not as thoughtful.  Like you and the others, I try and continue traditional gratitute.  Some of our friends do, most don't.  Sad but true.


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## shpj4 (Sep 6, 2006)

*Vera Blue*

Everyone I know brings something to a house party.  To me it is in very poor taste not to bring something.

I am 64 year old and as long as I can remember my parents always brought something to a party, house warming or whatever.

I don't think the adults of today think - and I hate to say this but maybe they are cheap.


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## Andy M. (Sep 6, 2006)

We never go empty-handed either.  SO bakes or I bring a bottle of wine.  Depends on where we're going.

I think it's a custom that started dieing out in the last quarter century and, besides, we're old fuddy duddys.  Heck, we don't even wear white after Labor Day.


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## texasgirl (Sep 6, 2006)

I bring things also, unless it's like Pampered Chef, which, the food is cooked by the rep by their recipe.
I know what you mean though, I've seen lots of people that don't bring stuff.


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## Robo410 (Sep 6, 2006)

something is considered the norm...wine, flowers, a suggested item from the host or hostess, a hostess gift (cocktail napkins etc) ... yeh, it' s the norm.


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## VeraBlue (Sep 6, 2006)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> We never go empty-handed either.  SO bakes or I bring a bottle of wine.  Depends on where we're going.
> 
> I think it's a custom that started dieing out in the last quarter century and, besides, we're old fuddy duddys.  Heck, we don't even wear white after Labor Day.



I can top that, Andy...I never drink scotch before Thanksgiving or after Easter!


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## VeraBlue (Sep 6, 2006)

Okay, then, I have another question then...

My father is first generation in America Italian.  My mom is second generation.  I always believed it was a european thing.  In other words, people with an 'old world' nature seemed more apt to instruct their families on such pleasantries.

Or...is it something of a geographical thing?  Done more in the suburbs?

Could it be financial?  I've often seen the lower the income, the more generous...?

I do appreciate the conversation.   

By the way...I often bring cookies to the nail salon...


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## MarionW (Sep 6, 2006)

*Oh Vera, please.....*

...don't regulate us on the seasonal partaking of beverages, please...


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## MarionW (Sep 6, 2006)

I concur, the Euro's are more traditional.  But, sorry to say, this is changing.  Not so quickly in the quaint villages, but more so in the more populace areas.

And yes, in America, I think the rural and suburb folk tend to hang on to values longer.  But, the rural/suburbs/metro/whatever tend to mingle faster, due largely to fast transportation and communication (computers)

Marion


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## GB (Sep 6, 2006)

VeraBlue said:
			
		

> Okay, then, I have another question then...
> 
> My father is first generation in America Italian.  My mom is second generation.  I always believed it was a european thing.  In other words, people with an 'old world' nature seemed more apt to instruct their families on such pleasantries.
> 
> ...


Myself and my friends all pretyt much are 4th or 5th generation Americans or so. No one I know is first or second generation. For the most part we are middle class to upper middle class from the suburbs. Everyone brings something always.


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## VeraBlue (Sep 6, 2006)

MarionW said:
			
		

> ...don't regulate us on the seasonal partaking of beverages, please...



Permit me to explain......
My father would always drink a Manhattan on Thanksgiving.  When I was young, he'd let me have the booze soaked cherry.   As I grew, and grew to like the drink, it became a holiday special.  Eventually, I switched to a rob roy because I like Johnny Walker better than whatever he was using..(I digress) but, it was still a winter treat.

To this day, I don't drink JW before Thanksgiving, and never after Easter...unless it get's real cold again after easter...or unless the bar we are at doesn't have the rum I'm in the mood for...or unless I get a serious craving.  I never admit to cheating on this however.  I'll have to kill you now


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## MarionW (Sep 6, 2006)

VeraBlue said:
			
		

> Permit me to explain......
> My father would always drink a Manhattan on Thanksgiving. When I was young, he'd let me have the booze soaked cherry. As I grew, and grew to like the drink, it became a holiday special. Eventually, I switched to a rob roy because I like Johnny Walker better than whatever he was using..(I digress) but, it was still a winter treat.
> 
> To this day, I don't drink JW before Thanksgiving, and never after Easter...unless it get's real cold again after easter...or unless the bar we are at doesn't have the rum I'm in the mood for...or unless I get a serious craving. I never admit to cheating on this however. I'll have to kill you now


 
You are a sweetheart!


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## VeraBlue (Sep 6, 2006)

GB said:
			
		

> Myself and my friends all pretyt much are 4th or 5th generation Americans or so. No one I know is first or second generation. For the most part we are middle class to upper middle class from the suburbs. Everyone brings something always.



OK GB.   I'm actually relieved to know it's not gender, race, ethnicity, etc. specific.  

By the way, I'm still waiting for my Regina pizza


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## BigDog (Sep 6, 2006)

Well, I'm no spring chicken, but I don't think I qualify as the proclaimed "fuddy duddy" (not my words!), but whenever we entertain or are invited to another's home, the travelling (sp? 1 "L" or 2?  ) guest always brings something. Usually there is discussion before hand and what is brought is mutually decided (though on occassion it is left general, i.e. dessert, but no suggestions, etc.). 

Sometimes we do pre-arranged pot luck with (DW's) family, but outside of that, nothing is brought unless its something someone is trying to get rid of (like the zucchini brownies one of my sister in law's made). Holidays celebrated with DW's fam have everyone bringing something as well, and the host prepares the bird and whatever else is not brought (again, all pre-arranged). With my folks, living 1500 miles away, we bring nothing but our suitcases and appetites. Regardless, I still wind up doing some of the cooking!


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## Alix (Sep 6, 2006)

OK, I was raised the same way and feel very odd when I don't bring something with me. HOWEVER...there have been times when I would bring flowers or some baking and have other guests make me feel like I'd committed a sin. I'm not sure if that was because they felt I'd upstaged them or what, but it is not just once this has happened.

I was always taught too that at a housewarming you brought traditional gifts like a plant or some salt. 

It seems to me that we have certain friends that we KNOW aren't going to bring anything and don't WANT us to bring stuff over there. While there are others who are more traditional and like that exchange. 

I once hosted a summer party and one guest arrived with a bouquet of flowers. Being the hostess I assumed they were for me and thanked the guest and put them in water. She looked so odd and I couldn't figure out why. I later realized that one of our guests was celebrating a birthday the next week and the flowers had been intended for her...not me. Oops. How embarrassing! On so many levels!


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## GB (Sep 6, 2006)

VeraBlue said:
			
		

> By the way, I'm still waiting for my Regina pizza


Better check your mailmans chin to see if the sauce is still there


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## MarionW (Sep 6, 2006)

*Ok...all confused now....*

Can you imagine the confusion out there.  Tradition tugging one way, modern America tugging another.  "What the h--- you doing with my flowers?  They are for so & so, not you!"  Where did we begin missing the boat?  Was it the '60's?


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## Alix (Sep 6, 2006)

Dunno Marion, but I wasn't born til the late 60's so I think it was likely more in the 80's, the famous "ME" decade.


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## MarionW (Sep 6, 2006)

*80's*

That may be true Alix.  It would've been the '80's before I began noticing a change.  And I'm NOT telling you or anyone else my age!


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## BigDog (Sep 6, 2006)

I was still a pup during the 80's. Didn't start high school 'til 1990.


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## MarionW (Sep 6, 2006)

*What da h---?*

Didn't start highschool till the '90's?  You aren't old enough to cook!  Does your mommie know you have the oven on?


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## Alix (Sep 6, 2006)

Marion...sssshhhhh! MRS BigDog might not be happy to hear you say that about her hubby.


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## BigDog (Sep 6, 2006)

MarionW said:
			
		

> Didn't start highschool till the '90's? You aren't old enough to cook! Does your mommie know you have the oven on?


 


			
				Alix said:
			
		

> Marion...sssshhhhh! MRS BigDog might not be happy to hear you say that about her hubby.


 
ROTFL!

She's only 348 days older then me . . . . 349 on leap year!


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## Andy M. (Sep 6, 2006)

VeraBlue said:
			
		

> I can top that, Andy...I never drink scotch before Thanksgiving or after Easter!


 
For me it's gin and tonic in the summer and Crown Royal the rest of the year.

I'm first generation and SO is third or fourth.  We both are from lower middle class backgrounds and both feel the same.  I would guess folks that live in an urban environment in ethnic neighborhoods do this a lot.  Outside of that urban environment, the mix of backgrounds in the suburbs makes it impossible to predict.


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## Swann (Sep 7, 2006)

Sorry I disagree with most of you. I consider it poor manners to take food or drink to a party. I am the hostess and I do not want food or drinks to mess up my dinner plans. I plan what I am serving and do not want a casserole from a guest or a dessert. It is considered impolite to not serve but to serve is awkard too. Wine I put away for another time. Just keep your food at home when I invite people I expect to do it all. When someone asks what to bring I tell them nothing as my menu is planned.


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## buckytom (Sep 7, 2006)

dad is first gen irish american, mom is second - norwegian american.
we were taught 2 basic rules.

1. never show up empty handed, anywhere, no matter what. 
we normally bring wine AND italian or polish baked goods (since there's so many good bakeries of each around me), AND/or flowers. 

every time i go to my parents, we bring veggies and herbs from the garden, as well as a few frozen meals i've prepared, so my mom can get a break from dinner for a coupla nights. same goes when we visit my siblings. it may seem weird, but they love my cooking. or so they say...lol?  

even when i go to my buddy's house for monday night football, i bring a 12 pack and a pizza or two. neither goes to waste with my friends, and is always appreciated.  
i remember we were having our monday night get together at one of the guys' house, who's wife was a bit iffy about what we might do to her place since she didn't know everyone. some of the guys are very large, very scary looking people.
i showed up early, with flowers and wine for her (i left the beer and pizza in the truck), and she seemed to relax a bit. especially after a glass or two of the wine.   not to mention how she kept trying to set me up with all of her friends. i was semi-single at the time.
anyway, it was a case that proved the theory. never show up empty handed.



2. everyone is always invited. period. all get togethers, from the biggest party to the simplest meal, no one is ever excluded. even strangers.
if it should so happen that you think you don't like someone, you'll be surprised at the friends you make, rather than the enemies you'll make by not including them. a little friendship and hospitality goes a long way.
my mom says that this is a norwegian practice from years ago. if you were having a get together, you'd place a lit candle or pot of oil in the front of the house as sort of an "open house" sign. anyone who passes by is invited in to the party, and to eat.


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## NZDoug (Sep 7, 2006)

If we have a dinner or bbq, we qrite on the invite or emailer "BYO" for Bring your own Booze, "BYO Meat" or bring a plate, if we want them to bring along a plate of something they do well.
Plain written English works well for communication.


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## lulu (Sep 7, 2006)

Well, I am not an old fuddy duddy....I'm 27.  And I'm European, but I too have noticed the trend and I would sat less than half of people bring gifts, even though when we are in London we have people over at least weekly (varying levels of formality.)  

I get what you say Swann, but I don't take something for the meal I'm going to -unless specifically asked, which does happen, but a cake for the cupboard, some jams, a bottle of wine, maybe flowers if I know the people are not food orientated, or a bottle of wine or champagne.  I plan my meals well too, and would not like it if people brought something for the evening uninvited, but welcome something we can pull ou the next day or lay down.  We entertain less formally in the contryside, but when we do we notice people are more generous...and the gift is less likely to be alcohol or flowers.

I like the gift.  I put a lot of my time and resources into preparing a meal and an evening.  Not to put too fine a point on it, if nothing else it can be an expensive thing to do.  But I enjoy it, and as far as I cn tell the people who come do! I am never happier than when people meet new friends at my bhome, and then you hear that they have kept in touch.  I like people asking for recipes that they have had, and i love to swee them enjoy the food and wine.

Incidently, I also notice that people invite you back less often than the generation above me.  Its partly cooking skill (my male firends tend to have more interest in cooking for enteraining than the female ones I have noticed!) partly economics.  If there is a return invite, its usually a restaurant.  Generally I think it is done LESS now than when we were at university...where the trend definitely was that if you cooked a baked potato for a friend in your flat/halls of residence.....you would probably be invited back for their stir fry that week, lol.  

I think it is part of a trend of lesser manners in a confused society, a lot of people just don't know what to do and if adherence to "old fashioned manners" is offensively passe,....like door opening and standing for women on the train....both of which my husband does and it makes me proud of him.


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## buckytom (Sep 7, 2006)

ya know, i don't think of it as manners. those are things you have to do.  
it's just seems to be what's right; what's fair; what you do when you respect the host. you're giving of yourself in some way, even being generous at times, because you can already presume the host will be giving to you.

i would love to hear someone with an opposite point of view. someone who can explain why you think an invitation is, well, how do i say it without sounding judgemental. an invitation is free, umm, free from obligation in some way, maybe? or possibly that you insult the host's generosity by making it more of a trade. i dunno. there's gotta be some loquacious cheap bastid out there...


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## lulu (Sep 7, 2006)

I should get you talking to my friend who I shall call "Adam" Bucky.  I love him dearly, but have had to stop inviting him because he comes (occasionally bringing  with him a bottle of wine from the off licence in my road) for dinner on a friday, and after all the other guests have gone and I have to tell him bluntly I am tired he just looks blank and says, oh right, yes, well, I'll saty the night and we can keep talking in the morning!!!  

Once he stayed 10 days!!!  Husband and I went to work every morning, he slept and watched tv! He is an actor, and during this time he even went to auditions THEN RETURNED TO OUR PLACE! I can't for the life of me get it, he has his own flat - much nicer than ours!  So, now we only try to only go to restaurants nearer his place than ours, lol.


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## VeraBlue (Sep 7, 2006)

Swann said:
			
		

> Sorry I disagree with most of you. I consider it poor manners to take food or drink to a party. I am the hostess and I do not want food or drinks to mess up my dinner plans. I plan what I am serving and do not want a casserole from a guest or a dessert. It is considered impolite to not serve but to serve is awkard too. Wine I put away for another time. Just keep your food at home when I invite people I expect to do it all. When someone asks what to bring I tell them nothing as my menu is planned.



There is a difference between bringing a house gift for the hostess and horning in on someone's menu.  There are people who cannot tell the difference, and tha'ts unfortunate.   However, bringing the hostess a bottle of wine or spirits, or a plant or flower, or candles, or even some coffee cake for breakfast the next day should never be considered rude.


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## licia (Sep 7, 2006)

I suppose it depends on how well you know your hosts. I always take something, not food if I'm invited to dinner. Sometimes chocolates, or a nice candle, or if I know what they collect, perhaps something to go with that. I have a friend who brings current magazines that she knows I like, but to which I don't subscribe. I think it is just a nice thing to do for someone who probably went to quite a bit of work to entertain you. Perhaps a cd of their favorite group, a picture frame, or even in some cases, I've taken a picture that I had taken of us together, etc. Lots of things other than food and wine. Flowers are always nice. Alix, I think the friend should have been told first off if the flowers were for another person at the party, but even better why bring flowers for one person to another person's party. That seems a bit unthoughtful to me. But it seems everyone lives by different rules these days, or perhaps the lack of them!


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## VickiQ (Sep 7, 2006)

I am a 60s child too-my Dad is first generation Scilian and My Mom first generation Spaniard/Puerto Rican( my grandfather from Spain,my grandmother Puerto Rico).We didn't even go to a friend's house to play without bring so much as a box of cookies or ice cream sandwiches.I did the same thing when my kids would go their friend's houses and I sure got some strange responses.What I bring depends on what type of event is taking place-i.e. graduation party=a basket of muffins for the hosts for the following morning breakfast-bbq=usually some type of desserst and always chocolate chip cookies for the kids.This past Sunday we were invited to a bbq our friends have EVERY year on the Sunday of Labor Day weekend-we weren't sure if we were going (It was Jymm's birthday and Jimmy had been called to work the night before from the effects of Ernesto) but, we still sent over(the delivery of this cooler is a story in itself!!) our huge cooler filled with ice because we knew they would need it.
I don't get offended when people show up empty handed- I don't think twice about it- I'm just glad that they enjoy our company enough to accept the invitation.Love and energy, Vicki


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## ronjohn55 (Sep 7, 2006)

We never show up empty handed, be it wine, a bottle of liquor, cookies, or something else. Our friends are usually the same way. 

Of course, I've been known to drive people batty by giving gifts and not allowing them to give anything in return, too.  

John


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## Alix (Sep 7, 2006)

> Alix, I think the friend should have been told first off if the flowers were for another person at the party, but even better why bring flowers for one person to another person's party. That seems a bit unthoughtful to me. But it seems everyone lives by different rules these days, or perhaps the lack of them!


 
Thanks licia! I was mortified when I realized the mistake, but at that point just had to brazen it out. LOL.

What a wonderful thread. It is so interesting to see how folks from every culture and generation see this. The one thing we all have in common though is love of food/entertaining. I wonder if that colours our view just a bit? Could that be why most of us stick to that gift giving thing? We like to be appreciated (and know how much work it is to entertain) and then in return appreciate others when they take the time to prepare a meal for us?


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## licia (Sep 7, 2006)

Alix, I did go back and change the mispelling of your name.  Sorry about that.


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## Alix (Sep 7, 2006)

Thanks licia, I appreciate that.


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## vagriller (Sep 7, 2006)

MarionW said:
			
		

> Didn't start highschool till the '90's?  You aren't old enough to cook!  Does your mommie know you have the oven on?




BigDog, I'm only 4 years older than you. Don't let the old folks rib you too much!


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## mish (Sep 7, 2006)

When I am invited as a dinner guest, I ask the host (if they are a friend), Is there something that you need that I can bring? Even if the host says no, I bring dessert (homemade or bakery), an appy, or a veggie homemade side dish (i.e. Thanksgiving). That's how I was raised. I don't feel it's a matter of generation/age, race, or grammar. IMO, it's about social etiquette skills. 

I have attended dinner/parties that were catered, with bartenders and a staff serving food. A gift may not be necessary, but a follow up with a personal note is another way of saying thanks for inviting me, and kudos on a great party.

As an invited dinner guest, (to relatives of a friend I knew for years), I always volunteered to help clean up and clear the table. Since I knew the host(s), it was another way of showing my appreciation. I noticed that noone else ever volunteered -- they were out in the jacuzzi or relaxing. After awhile, I started declining invitations from same. My personal rule now is, I don't offer to clean up. If you come to my home, I will never ask or accept someone's offer to 'clean up.'

One friend I knew, would designate a specific dish for everyone to bring & BYOB. I happily did so -- until the friend kept the dish I brought it in. I never asked for my cookware back, and knew in the future(?), bring the dish in an aluminum tray.

Re borrowing - I don't. If I did, it would surely be returned.

I think it also depends on the crowd/company/friends one 'hangs' with/invites, and the occasion. In some instances, the host gives out 'goodie bags.'

If 'da boss', CEO, etc. invites you to dinner, find out his/her preferences -- maybe a good bottle of Scotch or cigars.  Alcohol, is not always the best decision in business situations.  Use your best judgement.


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## Swann (Sep 7, 2006)

In the paper this AM Miss Manners column she says....NO you do not take food, drink, or gift to a dinner party. Very poor manners. My husband says that taking food makes the hostess feel that the food she may serve is not good enough or they probably would not like what is served. I consider it an insult to bring food to my house unless it is a potluck. I said it all in another post so I will not repeat. I do not kow where the idea orignated that one takes a gift to a party. Cultural? Perhaps.


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## mudbug (Sep 7, 2006)

Interesting thread.  If I'm feeding you I usually don't want more food as a gift.  On the other hand, I appreciate the thoughtfulness of wanting to reciprocate.

But what really got me thinking was the American Indian custom of potlach.  I invite you to a feast for some or another occasion, and I bankrupt myself giving you -- the guests -- more gifts.  Anybody know more about this practice and how it got started?


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## jpmcgrew (Sep 7, 2006)

I like to bring something.Depending on the size of the party or dinner.If it's a big dinner I offer to bring dessert,appy or bread or something and this way it saves the host/hostess a little work.Usually they are happy  for me to do this as Im a decent cook.If not then it may be a bottle of wine or something for the host to use another time whether its wine or some cute cocktail napkins just some little thing.If it's a real casual simple just come come eat with us tonight deal I might only bring the first few ripe tomatoes I grew for them to use later.But I understand a gift for the host usually is some thing they can use at their own discression that it isn't meant for that particular dinner.  Of course I always chip in with clean up if they let me.


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## GB (Sep 7, 2006)

Swann said:
			
		

> In the paper this AM Miss Manners column she says....NO you do not take food, drink, or gift to a dinner party. Very poor manners. My husband says that taking food makes the hostess feel that the food she may serve is not good enough or they probably would not like what is served. I consider it an insult to bring food to my house unless it is a potluck. I said it all in another post so I will not repeat. I do not kow where the idea orignated that one takes a gift to a party. Cultural? Perhaps.


That is fine, but what about bringing flowers or non food items? I am just curious how you feel about guests bringing you something like that or what you do when you go to someones house.


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## licia (Sep 7, 2006)

I would think what Mrs Manners is addressing is something to add to the party.  I don't think extra food or drink should be taken with the expectation that it will be used at the party - it could confuse the menu. But a hostess gift I don't see anything wrong with that.  Even if I do reciprocate at another time, I like to let them know I appreciate the invitation.


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## jpmcgrew (Sep 7, 2006)

When I said I offer thats what it is an offer if they dont want me to bring something food related for the meal I dont.But for the most part they are happy with a little help.You need to know all our little parties are on a ranch 45 miles from the nearest town so if some one forgot something for their dinner or cook out Im happy to chip in or add to the experience.


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## licia (Sep 7, 2006)

That is very thoughtful and much appreciated, I'm sure.  If it is a really good friend we're eating with, I usually call and ask if there is anything I can bring, just in case something was forgotten. Sometimes it's yes and sometimes no.


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## Ellen (Sep 7, 2006)

I think it depends entirely on what is being celebrated, where, it may be a picnic, the guest mix and quite a few other factors.  It is almost an instinctive thing.  But seldom can one not find the perfect thing.  I would have a heart attack if anyone turned up with a casserole, if it were not prearranged.  Though I really can't imagine anyone doing that.


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## JohnL (Sep 7, 2006)

I usually hang out in a tight circle of family and friends , so if I'm invited to a dinner or party,  if the host asks me to make something, I'll honor the request, otherwise I'll bring beer or wine or both to the event.


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## VeraBlue (Sep 7, 2006)

buckytom said:
			
		

> dad is first gen irish american, mom is second - norwegian american.
> we were taught 2 basic rules.
> 
> 1. never show up empty handed, anywhere, no matter what.
> ...



I like your Mom, Bucky...can I borrow her for a while?


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## VeraBlue (Sep 7, 2006)

licia said:
			
		

> I suppose it depends on how well you know your hosts. I always take something, not food if I'm invited to dinner. Sometimes chocolates, or a nice candle, or if I know what they collect, perhaps something to go with that. I have a friend who brings current magazines that she knows I like, but to which I don't subscribe. I think it is just a nice thing to do for someone who probably went to quite a bit of work to entertain you. Perhaps a cd of their favorite group, a picture frame, or even in some cases, I've taken a picture that I had taken of us together, etc. Lots of things other than food and wine. Flowers are always nice. Alix, I think the friend should have been told first off if the flowers were for another person at the party, but even better why bring flowers for one person to another person's party. That seems a bit unthoughtful to me. But it seems everyone lives by different rules these days, or perhaps the lack of them!



Those are all wonderful ideas, Licia!


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## Ellen (Sep 7, 2006)

That seems to be the way these days JohnL.  So much entertaining is informal.   We very seldom go to formal events.  The thing to bear in mind always I think,  is that good manners are for other peoples comfort.  Not a side show of warmed fish knives etc. to be trotted out in a viperish show of snobbery and one upmanship.


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## MarionW (Sep 7, 2006)

I suspect we are also thinking on different levels here.  As for me, we are not "elites" in the social circle.  If we recieve invitation, we recieved it because our company is genuinely desired.  We always show our appreciation by providing the host with a small gift.  Usually this gift is wine or flowers, but it may differ from time to time.  The actual gift is not important, the thought is.

Some comments here are based on dinner invitations that would not neccessarily fit in my atmosphere, thus there will always be differences of perspective.

The people we recieve invitations from are people anyone would be honored to have as friends.  There is no way in h--- I'd show up without a gift of some kind.  No way!  Ms. Manners or not!

Marion


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## VeraBlue (Sep 7, 2006)

I think perhaps the term 'house gift' is not fully understood by Miss Manners.  
It also sounds like Miss Manners is only seeing black or white.  I believe people know what they are being invited for:  informal bbq, formal sit-down dinner, cocktails, pool party, sunday brunch, etc.   

Would I bring Aunt Mae's corn pudding to a formal sit down dinner?  No, nor do I believe it would be appropriate.   Would I bring the hostess a box of scented  soaps or a small bag of potpouri?  Sure, why not?  Do I expect her to run to the loo and place them about?  Um...no

Perhaps the fact that someone may not know when it's appropriate to bring an additional dinner item or when to expect the item should be something that can be enjoyed later is more of the same point...people (some people) just don't know what is the right thing to do.

It's like bringing wine to a dinner party.   I bring it as a gift for the hostess, never dreaming she'd serve it that night.   I assume she has already planned her wine to accompany the meal.  I would also say something like :  I love this wine, I think you'll find you enjoy it as well.   Let me know what you thought when you do try it.   That way the hostess knows I don't expect her to serve it.

A gift for the hostess is not meant to disrupt the planned events, but rather, its supposed to let your host(ess) know you appreciate their effort.  It's simply supposed to be a kind gesture.  

Conversely, there is also a difference between a noted 'byo - something' before the event.   That isn't actually a hostess gift.  That's a request.  


Here's something else I was taught....If a neighbour sent over a dish of christmas cookies, or a basket of tomatoes from their garden, or whatever...never send the plate or basket back empty.  We always send it back with something on it.


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## MarionW (Sep 7, 2006)

lulu said:
			
		

> I should get you talking to my friend who I shall call "Adam" Bucky. I love him dearly, but have had to stop inviting him because he comes (occasionally bringing with him a bottle of wine from the off licence in my road) for dinner on a friday, and after all the other guests have gone and I have to tell him bluntly I am tired he just looks blank and says, oh right, yes, well, I'll saty the night and we can keep talking in the morning!!!
> 
> Once he stayed 10 days!!! Husband and I went to work every morning, he slept and watched tv! He is an actor, and during this time he even went to auditions THEN RETURNED TO OUR PLACE! I can't for the life of me get it, he has his own flat - much nicer than ours! So, now we only try to only go to restaurants nearer his place than ours, lol.


 
When this gent, "Adam", stayed for 10 days, it's speculative, but I suggest he was utilizing your residence as a "retreat" from something unwanted, that may have shown up at his residence.  Once the "danger" pasted, he went home.

Marion


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## Chopstix (Sep 8, 2006)

I've had several occasions when people brought desserts bought from bakeshops to my dinners -- after specifically telling them not to bring anything.  My initial reaction is appreciation for their thoughtfulness but on the other hand I secretly feel dismayed because I had dessert planned and painstakingly home-made already. I guess people expect me to serve what they brought, so rather than hurt anyone's feelings, at dessert time, I just serve ALL the desserts, mine and theirs.  (It looks strange on the table -- this mish mash of little designer cake slices and pastries among my profiteroles or tiramisu or panna cotta.)

One time, somebody brought a beautiful cake she baked herself.  The thought actually crossed my mind that time that maybe I should just not serve my dessert anymore.  But thinking about the awful waste of my efforts, I just served both.

I do appreciate it when people bring food but I would prefer that they bring a non-food item especially when people know I always plan my dinners well.  If guests don't bring anything, it's perfectly alright by me too.  I've never minded it.  We normally bring wine -- it's a safe gift, if unimaginative.  Next time I'll try the great non-food gift ideas posted here.


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## lulu (Sep 8, 2006)

I was chatting about this with a friend and she reminded me of an occasion where we had an informal supper at her place - there were twelve os us in all.  I bought a cake for their cupboard or freezer (it was wrapped and I say as I give something like that, "thank you for inviting us to night, here is something for tea later this week, or breakfast depending how wicked you feel") but a mutual girlfriend, brought a cake traditional for her country.  The whole way through the meal our friend kept saying she was "saving room" for her cake.  It was a nice gesture to bring something but the guest made her gesture into something we all had to share.  At pudding there was an awkwardness as the guest invited us to critique/praise her cake and our friends brownies/icecream combo was somewhat sidelined, despite being better and more appropriate to the relaxed meal.  

The hostess was very gracious but said she felt quite hurt that her guest had upstaged her but felt that it was done as primarily to let all of the other guest know she had brought a gift...they were the last to arrive and did not know that the other guest had supplied some wine and some flowers.  So it confirms my view that something for the table, unless asked for, is not appropraite, but something for the hosts to enjoy later or flowers are appreciated generally.


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