# Help getting pizza crust crispy



## jaspa (Aug 13, 2006)

ive started making my own pizza istead of ordering them in the only fault is i cant get to middle of the base to crispen ive tryed a tray with holes and a solid tray can someone help please cheers


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## flukx (Aug 13, 2006)

Do you have a baking stone? This really helps to make wonderful pizza crusts. Either way, make sure that the oven is preheated sufficiently.


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## jaspa (Aug 13, 2006)

havent got a stone but oven is already hot


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## Alix (Aug 13, 2006)

Get yourself a stone and use that. Its really the only way I have found to crisp up that crust.


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## DaCook (Aug 13, 2006)

Do you sprinkle your pan with cornmeal? I find that really helps.


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## Loprraine (Aug 13, 2006)

Welcome, Jaspa!  I do mine on the barbeque, always nice and crispy.  For some unknown reason, I gave up on my pizza stone years ago.


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## DesertRose (Aug 13, 2006)

*cornmeal on the pan*

What a good idea! One of my favovite pizza parlors does that, but I have nerver thought about doing it at home.


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## Michael in FtW (Aug 13, 2006)

One problem might be the thickness of your crust .... really crispy crust pizza (crispy like a cracker) is very thin.

If you don't want to invest in a stone (which can help crisp up even thicker crusts) ... try skipping the pans and place the pizza directly on the oven rack (in the middle position) - this will help eleminate the steam that is building up under the crust - which keeps it softer. 

I don't think corn meal will have anything to do with the crispness of the crust ... it is, as far as I understand it, used as a dry lubricant (like little ball bearings) to keep the dough from sticking to a peel, stone, or counter top.


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## ChefScotty (Aug 13, 2006)

Just driving by - don't ever waste money on a pizza stone - get unglazed quarry tiles, they're a fraction of the price.   And jaspa by hot she means don't throw the pizza in when it goes beep beep, leave it at 500º for a while.    There's a whole bunch of things you could do including par cooking the crust before adding toppings.   We'll get you crispy!

If all else fails I've got a particularly forgetful cook I can lend you.    It'll be black as coal when he's done with it, but it'll be crispy.


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## expatgirl (Aug 13, 2006)

ok, I have to chime in here---pizzas in Kazakhstan( where I live most of the time) suck big time---lots of greasy cheese, very little toppings, no or a little sucky sauce,  AND $$$$$$$$$$, ad nauseum--as a result I've had to learn to make my own pizzas,  or perfect the gag reflex----what's worked for me is to use pizza pans with holes in them (yes, the stone is better---I've done that as well) but it's too much weight for my suitcases to transport one over there. Preheat your oven at around 400 degrees and place the pizza pan on the BOTTOM rack for about 12-18 minutes--maybe longer depending on your oven .  WATCH IT!!!  When the cheese starts to get browned on top (not smoky burnt) it's time to take it out. It will be in the oven at least 12 minutes however. Mine is crispy using this method.  And when reheating pizza and you want it crispy, do NOT microwave it---either heat it on a hot pizza stone or use a heated pizza pan preheated to 375 or 400 and watch it--maybe 5 minutes max.


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## ChefScotty (Aug 13, 2006)

This thread is going to get big!!

At home I'm more for 500 with a 20 min wait before throwing it in, top shelf, 11 -12 mins max with a Julia Child dough recipe and some herbs thrown in and a pan with holes, and I'm swearing by that, even when I've got about 2# of crap piled on there.   Works every time.   Crispy and good crust height.   I'm sure this is just one of about 20 failsafe ways we're going to read over the next few days.   But then it is pizza after all.


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## Piccolina (Aug 13, 2006)

DaCook said:
			
		

> Do you sprinkle your pan with cornmeal? I find that really helps.


 I like to do the same thing too (whether or not it does a ton to help the crispness is up for debate, but I do like the taste and texture that it adds). Also, I've found that when cooking pizza in your average kitchen oven, it seems to crisp up better if the crust is more the thin side.


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## expatgirl (Aug 13, 2006)

ChefScotty said:
			
		

> Just driving by - don't ever waste money on a pizza stone - get unglazed quarry tiles, they're a fraction of the price.   And jaspa by hot she means don't throw the pizza in when it goes beep beep, leave it at 500º for a while.    There's a whole bunch of things you could do including par cooking the crust before adding toppings.   We'll get you crispy!
> 
> If all else fails I've got a particularly forgetful cook I can lend you.    It'll be black as coal when he's done with it, but it'll be crispy.




chef Scotty, 

Where do you get these unglazed quarry stones?? I went to my local Lowe's and Home Depot and asked for these and they looked at me like I was "crazed". Can you tell by looking at them if they're unglazed since I also live overseas most of the time and speak NO Russian???


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## amber (Aug 13, 2006)

I think, like Michael said, it has to do with the thickness of your crust.  I only make thin-crust pizza, and use a teflon pizza pan.  Make sure your oven is hot, I set mine to 400 degrees.


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## RPCookin (Aug 13, 2006)

I was lucky enough while vacationing in Italy a few weeks ago to get to have a pizza dinner in an Italian home in Varese (northwest of Milano).  Alberto has a wood fired pizza oven on his balcony... his wife makes the dough, tops each pizza per order, and Alberto cooks them.  In a 350°C (662°F) oven they take about 2-3 minutes to cook, crisp and wonderful.  With such toppings as aged prosciutto, salami, buffalo mozzarella, lots of fresh tomatoes and olives from their garden, it made anything I've ever had here seem bland.  With 4 different wines to choose from, and great company, it was a fabulous evening.  And a shot of grappa to cap it off.... well I could have done without the grappa... 

Now I may have to spend the rest of my life trying to replicate the pizza I had over there...


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## MJ (Aug 13, 2006)

Get a thick pizza stone. It has worked great for me, for many years. I still have the same one. Make sure you preheat your oven at 450-500 for *at* *least* 45 minutes. I cook at 550 and it takes me about 7 minutes to get a crisp pizza. When you slide that pizza onto a hot stone, it allows the moisture to escape the crust giving it that crunch when you cut it.

Corn meal will help you "slide" your pizza off the peel, and thats about it.

Unglazed quarry tiles are nice from what I hear because you can stack them beside each other, and on the rack in the oven above the pizza. I have not tried them yet... I would go with a stone because they are easy to find.

Preheat that stone for at least 45 minutes and you will get a crispy pizza crust.


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## Half Baked (Aug 13, 2006)

I love my pizza stone.  I just got one about a year ago and wish I'd purchased it 15 years before.


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## Corinne (Aug 13, 2006)

jaspa said:
			
		

> ive started making my own pizza istead of ordering them in the only fault is i cant get to middle of the base to crispen ive tryed a tray with holes and a solid tray can someone help please cheers



If I understand correctly, you're saying that the middle of your pizza isn't getting cooked as much as you'd like it. My son worked at a pizza place a few years ago - I used to go in & help out - mostly to spend time with him. One thing he kept trying to pound into my head: keep the center of the pizza clear of toppings or it won't cook right. I wanted to put toppings over the entire pizza, including the middle, but he had to keep moving my stuff & telling me to leave the center alone - NO toppings!


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## arlienb (Aug 14, 2006)

btw, this is a great thread, i'm learning a lot!  thanks!  i HAVE one of those pizza stones...unfortunately i've used it only once because i didn't get one of those needed paddles to transfer my prepared pizza to the preheated stone.    does anyone know how else to transfer the pizza, without using a paddle?  

meanwhile, i'm using those trays with holes and making my pizzas really thin. but i do find that if you pile a lot of toppings onto the pizza, it does make the middle soggy, so i tend to make my toppings few as well.  

**one suggestion from a friend but i've never done this:   bake in oven till toppings are bubbly, then transfer to a non-greased frypan placed over high heat on the hob ...and cook till desired crispness of bottom is achieved...sounds like cheating to me, but it could work


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## scott123 (Aug 14, 2006)

Pizza baking is all about thermodynamics. The more heat you can get to the bottom of the crust, the better the oven spring, the puffier/crispier/tastier the final product.

There are a great number of home cooks that are perfectly happy with home style pizzas. These pizzas take on quite a few variations, including pre-cooking the shell, using a thin stone, a cookie sheet, a pan with holes, parchment paper, broiling, grilling and pan frying, just to name a few. As much as these techniques produce good pizzas, none of these will produce a pizzeria style pie. There's a pretty good reason why Americans eat about a billion slices of pizzeria pizza every year. Pizzeria pizza, for the most part, tastes phenomenal.

With pizzeria pizzas, thermal mass is key. You're talking about 3 inches of baking stone underneath the pizza, on the ceiling and all four walls. Compared to 3 inches, a cheap 1/4" stone is meaningless. For that matter, so are 1/4" unglazed quarry tiles. Recreating that much thermal mass in a home oven is close to impossible, but you can definitely create enough mass to duplicate pizzeria style pies.

If your goal is a good home style pizza, then the suggestions here are excellent, but if a pizzeria style is what you're attempting to achieve, I can help. This is something I've spent about 20 years learning to do. It's not that expensive, but it does take some time and effort.


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## Andy M. (Aug 14, 2006)

arlienb said:
			
		

> ...does anyone know how else to transfer the pizza, without using a paddle?...


 
You could use a rimless cookie sheet or the bottom of a rimmed cookie sheet to deliver the pizza to the stone for cooking. When it's done, it's a lot easier to remove it. You can get under it with a couple of large spatulas to slide it onto a tray or even use tongs.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Aug 14, 2006)

My best pizzas come from the covered kettle barbecue and a cast iron frying pan.  The coals are hot, about 600 degrees.  The frying pan gets very hot, very quickly.  I get a touch of smoke from the carcoal and mayby a touch of wood chips.  The crust gets good hivht and is crispy on the bottom.  I get a touch of the wood smoke flavor, but not too much.  Of course, the grill is covered with all vents wide open.  I don't need as much thermal mass as the cast iron is kept very hot by the intense fire underneath it.  And it only takes about ten to fifteen minutes to cook.

But you need a very good heatproof mit to handle the hot pan.  Just make sure to quickly remove the pizza from the pan when it's done, to prevent scorching the crust.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## jaspa (Aug 14, 2006)

i get my oven VERY hot i cant put it straight on to oven rack it would fall through so i must be doing somthing wrong thanx for all the help


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## arlienb (Aug 14, 2006)

thanks for the advice, andy m!


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## jaspa (Aug 14, 2006)

im going to get a stone cheers


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## Gorgonzola (Aug 14, 2006)

I find that no matter how you cook your pizza the #1 problem stems from overloading the pizza. Use 1/3 the sauce that you might think you need and go light on the cheese. Just try that to prove to yourself that it makes a big difference. The next pizza's you can make a bit heavier now that we know the results. To get hardy topped pizzas crisp we need extreme high heat.. 550 to 800 degrees. That can even be achieved with a good gas grill and or the use of a HOT stone that will suck the moistier out of the crust on contact. DON'
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





T TRY THIS AT HOME! Some poeple even go to the extent to overide the self cleaning lock on electric ranges and enjoy 800 degree ovens... now were cookin!


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## Toots (Aug 14, 2006)

This is a great thread.  I have a pizza stone but I haven't used it in years because I have problems getting the dough to slide onto the stone without sticking or creating a gigantic mess.  And the stone is piping hot so its hard to fool around with sliding your dough onto it.
I'm giong to have to dig it out and try it again!


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## Bangbang (Aug 14, 2006)

This works. Cook the dough without the toppings for the first 10 minutes. Remove pizza and add the toppings. Make sure you dock the dough before placing in the oven or it will puff up like a big pita. If you don't have a docker. Use a fork.


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## Andy M. (Aug 14, 2006)

Toots said:
			
		

> This is a great thread. I have a pizza stone but I haven't used it in years because I have problems getting the dough to slide onto the stone without sticking or creating a gigantic mess. And the stone is piping hot so its hard to fool around with sliding your dough onto it.
> I'm going to have to dig it out and try it again!


 

If you dust the pizza peel with some cornmeal, the pizza will slide onto the stone better.  Build the pizza on the peel with the cornmeal and just before putting it onto the stone, shake the peel back and forth gently to ensure the pizza is not stuck to it.


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## Corinne (Aug 14, 2006)

arlienb said:
			
		

> btw, this is a great thread, i'm learning a lot!  thanks!  i HAVE one of those pizza stones...unfortunately i've used it only once because i didn't get one of those needed paddles to transfer my prepared pizza to the preheated stone.    does anyone know how else to transfer the pizza, without using a paddle?



Pampered Chef makes a product just for that purpose. It's called "Lift & Serve". It's a 2-pc thing that you slide under the pizza to transfer it. It costs $17.50.

No, I am not a Pampered Chef Consultant - just a satisfied customer.


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## Michael in FtW (Aug 15, 2006)

jaspa said:
			
		

> i get my oven VERY hot i cant put it straight on to oven rack it would fall through so i must be doing somthing wrong thanx for all the help


 
Yep - if your pizza would fall through the oven racks ... you either have some strange oven racks ... or your're trying to make some mighty small pizzas, or you're doing something so wrong I can't imagine what it is.

Pizza dough can be soft and still work on an oven rack ... just as long as the diameter of the pizza exceeds the distance between the oven rack elements ... most are only 1/2 - 3/4 inch apart. Even a small 10-inch pizza would be more than adequately supported placed directly on the oven rack.

The only way that putting a pizza directly on the oven rack wouldn't work would be if you were trying to bake it "vertically" .... and that wouldn't work in any over ...


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## Bangbang (Aug 16, 2006)

This is a Docker. 

http://www.amazon.com/Pizza-Dough-Docker/dp/B000GIE5AM/sr=1-79/qid=1155745784/ref=sr_1_79/103-4478873-6876630?ie=UTF8&s=kitchen


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## arlienb (Aug 16, 2006)

Bangbang said:
			
		

> This is a Docker.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Pizza-Dough-Docker/dp/B000GIE5AM/sr=1-79/qid=1155745784/ref=sr_1_79/103-4478873-6876630?ie=UTF8&s=kitchen


oh, yes, i've seen one of those while waiting (impatiently) at a pizza takeaway for my pizza...i've always wondered what they were called...THANKS!


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## Bangbang (Aug 16, 2006)

arlienb said:
			
		

> oh, yes, i've seen one of those while waiting (impatiently) at a pizza takeaway for my pizza...i've always wondered what they were called...THANKS!


 
You are welcome. Docking your dough is a MUST. You can also use a perforated pan instead of a pizza stone. I have several. One of them is made of a wire mesh that I place directly on the pizza stone. It works great. I shape my pizza then place it on the wire mesh "pan"....then on the stone. I bake it at 450 for 10 minutes then remove....place toppings on and bake antoher 10 minutes or till cheese is thorougly melted and crust is browned.


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## Harborwitch (Aug 17, 2006)

I miss a lot of things that I had when living in the house - but the most missed item is http://www.hearthkitchen.com/.  It made perfect pizza, awesome breads, and everything else.  The trick with pizza is high heat - with the Hearthkit we'd heat the oven to 500 or 550 put the pizza in and drop the heat back to 425 or 450 depending on the toppings.

Yes, they are expensive but we thought it worth every penny.   I did find my on Ebay for about 1/2 price.  I think I'm going to measure my oven and see if they have one that will fit on the boat!


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## silvercliff_46 (Aug 18, 2006)

I use a perforated pan when I make my pizzas on my gas grill. In the house I use a "PIZZAZZ" pizza maker. I make mostly home made thick crust. It allows me to cook top, bottom or both with its multiple settings. The only problem is the sides of the crust don't brown. I finish that with my blow torch. Cost is around $50 bucks.


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## Michael in FtW (Aug 20, 2006)

Gorgonzola brought up something that I had forgotten that my step-daughter told me (she owns a pizza franchise) - too much sauce makes the crust "mooshy".


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## Gorgonzola (Aug 20, 2006)

Pizza is a passion here. I learned a bunch at pizzamaking.com


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