# Burgers for lunch, my recipe inside...



## Cooking4to

My son is having lunch at the house today with his "girlfriend" my nephew and his girlfriend and a another pair of friends.  I know its kind of weird a triple date at home, lol,  But they are working on a fund raiser for a friend of theirs they go to school with that is ill right now...

ANYWAY, he asked me to make lunch, said I could just throw a couple pizzas together, but I figured I do that all the time when his friends are over.  So Cheese Burgers and fries sounded much better...  And I just started the bread mix so I figured I would share the recipe with you guys...


OK, so first I start with the buns, since they take the longest...
The dough I use for hamburg buns is nothing crazy but has a lot of ingredients...
1/2 cup hot water
1/4 cup milk
3 cups flour {All AP, you can sub a little BF but I have good luck with 100% AP}
2 TBL butter
1/8 cup brown sugar
1/8 cup sugar
a heavy tsp salt
1 egg {or 2 small}
1 TBL yeast
1 TBL Honeyville farms conditioner {you can omit this I am used to using it}
2 tsp garlic powder {NOT GRAN}

Treat the dough like any other, let it 2x in size {hour plus}, roll it into balls {figure about 8 good sized buns from this mix}, then let it rest again, after it about 2x'd again, flatten them into buns. Put them on a parchment paper covered pan. Now let them rise to a nice puffy size {another hour}, and then brush them with melted butter {figure 2tbl will cover them all} try not to deflate them with your brush, I like to spray the butter on but that adds another step so the brush is easiest, but be careful.. If you are using seeds or onions on top nows the time to sprinkle them on...

Now for baking, preheat 375, bake for 15-20 minutes, when they come out of the oven, brush them with another tbl of butter, then rack them until they are room temp...  

So thats the buns, I have gotten so many comments when I make these, like "best hamburger bun I ever tasted, where did you get these buns, ect ect ect..


Now onto the meat, I have a 2 1/2 lb boneless short rib that I defrosted and cubed, I am going to grind that 1/8" fine grind. But you can use any 80% ground beef..

For the meat mix, I have tried many things, mixing in some sausage, mixing in chz, mixing in lemon, BBQ sauces, ect and after years of doing this and listening to what the people eating them say, this is the best mix I ever made, not just from the word of others but my own taste buds say the same thing, its a good burger...
I start with the fine ground meat, I will make this recipe for 1lb even though I am making 2.5 today...
Mix in 1 small egg and a 1/2 cup bread crumbs {fine milled dry, I make my own but any out of the package crumbs will work}
  Once that is well mixed add 1 TBL garlic powder, 1 TBL + 1 tsp Evap milk, 1 TBL worcestershire sauce, you can add a pinch of black pepper or red pepper or cayenne pepper, if you like,  and hand mix that in well until it is a uniform meat.

make your patties the thickness you like and cook your burgers how you like, my method is 1/2 lb burgers to fit the buns {figure for about 15% shrink for well}, I make them about an inch thick.  I cook them on a grill pan, I get the pan very hot and DONT TOUCH them until you are ready to flip {3-4 minutes}, flip once and DONT PRESS on them.  But everyone knows how to cook a burger so I wont get too far into that...

Trim these guys haw ever you like, 
I like a thin sliced prosciutto with thick cut muenster cheese on mine, maybe some grilled red onions and or sliced mushrooms, BUT NO DRESSING OR KETCHUP OR TOMATO..  I also toast the buns on another dry pan, they will be plenty moist enough to toast well...

My oldest son like LOL american white with thick cut crispy bacon on his, lettuce tomato and thousand island and ketchup with diced raw onion and pickles... 

And my youngest son just likes the burger and bun, no chz, no sauce, nothing, just plain..  Sometimes he will put some sweet BBQ sauce but I think that is only when the burgers are dry {not mine of course, lol}...

Thats it, super easy, I know the bread is time consuming BUT it makes the burger, and its not real time working, its resting time...

I have one more thing to add, I use this for sushi and its AWESOME on burgers, while my burgers have their own taste, if you are the tpe to just throw meat on a pan and love it, this is an awesome addition...
You need to buy 2 products, that I promise are probably not in your kitchen, lol...

http://www.amazon.com/Huy-Fong-Sriracha-Chili-Bottle/dp/B0002PSOJW
Amazon.com : Kewpie Mayonnaise (Japanese Mayo) - 500g Net 17.64 FL. OZ. : Sushi Mayo : Grocery & Gourmet Food

If you have an asian grocery buy you it will be much cheaper to buy local, I buy them locally for 1/2 what amazon charges...

1/2 cup of the mayo and 2 TBL of the sauce, with a sqz of lime juice, mix it all up and enjoy, I love this stuff, great with lobster, sushi, burgers, anything...  I got this recipe from the sushi restaurant we go to, but its a pretty basic staple, they all make it the same way, ITS SO GOOD...


OK so that is the burger, now onto the fries..  I have a 2x frier, but I dont fry french fries, I use it for eggplant, chic and veal cutlets, ect..  I bake my fries...
Simple cut the frys, coat them with sugar {a salt shaker with sugar is handy}, let them sit for an hour at room temp {in a warm spot}, then dry them off, put them in a bowl, coat them with oil, black pepper, brown sugar, and garlic powder.  I throw them in a paper bag and shake them all up {dont add salt yet}...

Bake them at 400-450 {thicker the fry lower the temp} for about 15-25 minutes, then flip them and cook another 15-20 minutes..

Pull them out, and put them in that same paper bag, this time add some sea salt and shake them around, dont turn them into mashed potatoes but coat them well...

You will never fry french fries again...

SO thats it, if you are ever bored on a saturday morning and want to make some burgers and fries for lunch, try it out, reading back over this it does sound like a lot of work, but its not bad at all, and when you taste the results you will be sold and want to do it again.  This is one of them recipes that I have to print out for people when they taste it...


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## RPCookin

I can't imagine working this hard for a burger and fries.  For me a burger is just as much about the toppings as it is about the meat.  It's more important to not over work the patty than just about anything else.  Everyone has different preferences, different likes, and that is probably as true of the humble hamburger as just about anything else.  

If I'm serving an eclectic group, I'll do a pretty basic burger, generally seasoned with a little Montreal steak seasoning, or just salt and pepper.  I may or may not make my own buns, depending on time and how lazy I am that day.  If I do I prefer to start them the day before and make a sponge that ferments overnight to give some added flavor.  I grill the burgers, have 2 or 3 different cheeses available and apply to order.  Then I have a good selection of accouterments so that folks can dress them as they like.  I really don't bother with fries.  Rather have a good potato salad or cole slaw and barbeque beans or the like for sides.


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## Kayelle

I can't imagine going to that much trouble either Rick. I'm not clear what you mean here..." If I do I prefer to start them the day before and make a sponge that ferments overnight to give some added flavor."

I do enjoy reading C42's real passion for cooking. He's gone MIA for a while, and I miss his enthusiastic posts. Hope all is well with him.


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## Cheryl J

I msg'ed C42 recently, he said they've been in Italy and are back now.  I don't think his burger, buns and fries sound all that complicated, he just likes to be wordy.


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## RPCookin

Kayelle said:


> I can't imagine going to that much trouble either Rick. I'm not clear what you mean here..." If I do I prefer to start them the day before and make a sponge that ferments overnight to give some added flavor."
> 
> I do enjoy reading C42's real passion for cooking. He's gone MIA for a while, and I miss his enthusiastic posts. Hope all is well with him.



A sponge is a type of preferment used when you want the yeast to have more time to work.  It's sort of the lazy (or hurried) man's sourdough.  You take part of the flour that the recipe calls for, some of the water, and the yeast, and mix them and set them out on the counter at least 2 or 3 hours, and one recipe I had for cibatta called for it to sit out overnight.  It will typically rise to 3 or more times the starting size, so it needs to be placed in a roomy bowl.  Then you incorporate that with the rest of the ingredients when you make the dough before baking.  

This site has the methods for several different preferments.  Artisan Baking  Using a preferment usually creates better flavor and makes a better crust.  I've also read that the bread doesn't go stale overnight like regular homemade breads tend to, but around here it never lasts long enough to test that.


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## Cooking4to

Kayelle said:


> I can't imagine going to that much trouble either Rick. I'm not clear what you mean here..." If I do I prefer to start them the day before and make a sponge that ferments overnight to give some added flavor."
> 
> I do enjoy reading C42's real passion for cooking. He's gone MIA for a while, and I miss his enthusiastic posts. Hope all is well with him.



Hey Kayelle...  Yes all is well and Cheryl is correct, we were in italy for a bit.  it was great, did a lot of work around the property out there and it was the first time the kids got to spend some real time in the new place.  

I got back to a few issues with ice dams and my rental properties, so I have been super busy running around dealing with business stuff, also we are in the middle of some construction at our own home, we are refinishing a stair case in the guest suite, when I built the house it was tile topped {my wife doesn't like how slippery it got}, we had that all ripped out and are having red oak treads and risers put in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 , we are also having all the railings in one of the lofts refinished {they are painted white and showing a little age} 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my wife wants it redone, soo "happy wife empty wallet" I think thats how it goes...

Me and my sons have also been clearing off roofs for people from the church, sadly I only did about 75% of the ones that needed us, but we ran out of time, the kids still have school and I have been super crazy trying to do my own stuff, and its not something I could do alone safely, plus my back hurts, lol...  {hopefully that is enough excuses for g-d} 


My wife and I are going back soon, our plan is to split time between the US and italy for a few years, we are talking about having my oldest do his senior year there and my youngest his sophomore.  I thought it would be easy to convince my oldest, BUT he is in the 10th grade now, and has football and friends and when we talked about it initially I think he wasn't realizing what he would be missing and just thinking about how much fun it would to be to do a year in Italy meeting new people and learning new things.  NOW he thought about it more and missing that last year with all his friends seems to carry more weight than it did when we started talking about it.  My youngest seems to not mind because he figures its 10th grade and he will be back for 11th.

We have a while to go and my wife started looking into the programs available, she thinks he is crazy for having second thoughts, and I try to explain to her thats because we weren't thinking from a 16 year olds point of view, sure a year in italy sounds great to us but to someone thinking his high school friends are a big part of his life and future it can be scary.

My idea is - do the senior year over there, the scheduling will allow for a month back home before graduating here in the US, then take that summer and spend it back in italy with a handful of friends before college, we have plenty of room and it will be a nice break.  But I don't know, its a ways off time will tell what he wants to do...

Next time we go I will take more food related pictures, my wife took this picture to show her sister how much fruit costs sorry for the quality I have no idea how to get it from her device to mine so I had to be creative 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



heres a pic of one of the rooms that when we bought the place didn't have furniture in it, we furnished it and repainted it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . The original owners went there for vacation and didn't need all the rooms, we plan on using all of the space, and we are going to be leasing the property {weekly vacationers} when we are not using it.  It is worth A LOT more with 7 furnished bedrooms, we found a company {well they found us} that can rent it for us, fully insured and they cover any damage and even the normal wear and tear done by renters.  They do take a percent of course, but they handle everything from start to finish, we met with them and they toured the property, they said our end would be just over $3500US per week year round average.  I am fine with that considering a bed, dresser, and small table just cost us $5500US, lol, stuff is NOT cheap out there.  I was impressed with the way they do everything, background checks, video inspections before and after each renter, they even "rekey" the locks for the renters, so when we leave they come and change the locks to their key {ours still works no matter what, its the master}, then when the renter leaves they change the key again so no one can reenter with that key.  They also monitor our alarms for free {we are paying $250 per month right now}...
My wife of course hates the idea of having people in there, but rental property is what I do and to me it makes a lot of sense..  
Thats about all I have been doing, besides the work inside the house I also installed a new car lift in my attached garage at my house, the garage door had to be reworked to be able to open when I car is lifted, it wont be for working on cars, it will be for storage, my detached garage is full and the entire time we were home I had a car outside, I would rather have everything all nice and tightly shut when we leave, this will allow for all the vehicles to be inside when we leave.

So you can see its been busy here, today and last night are actually the first relaxing days I have had.  Today I am going to be lazy and hang out at the house, my wife is going to Micheals for fabric for something, and we have to start planning my sons 16th birthday party {sunday}.  We are having 50 people over and of course i am cooking everything, lol...

I am thinking about making a bunch of breads and cutting them together so it looks like a long sandwich.  I am thinking 9 feet long sandwich, I will have to make the bread in sections, and then I will make my own roast beef and roast a turkey breast, then buy some salami and cap.......  I have some planning to do for that..

I will also make some small rolls with a couple bowls of sandwich salads, like tuna, chicken, and seafood salads...  Then just chips, dips, and drinks...

OH and a cake, which I will leave to my mother {as most of you know, I am not good at cake making}...

So thats about it I guess, sorry for the long post and sorry I havent been around in a bit, I have been poking around, but knowing how long my posts are I haven't been able to commit to one, lol...  

I hope everyone is doing well, it is good to see we all made it through this winter, its almost over...


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## Cooking4to

Cheryl J said:


> I msg'ed C42 recently, he said they've been in Italy and are back now.  I don't think his burger, buns and fries sound all that complicated, he just likes to be wordy.



I agree, much easier than i make it sound, I have a habit of explaining what goes with out saying...


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## Addie

Being wordy makes for some interesting reading. I can be like that myself.


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## Cheryl J

C42, one of your pics didn't show up.  Don't we get to see pics of your trip to Italy and your villa??


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## Cooking4to

Cheryl J said:


> C42, one of your pics didn't show up.  Don't we get to see pics of your trip to Italy and your villa??








theres the pic that didn't show up, I reloadded it I cant get pics from her mac to my photbucket, I will try to get more into the photobucket.  This pic looks horrible, the ceiling is dark wood not black, the blue walls are supposed to look good with the window open because its a blue skyline out there, the lights are new on both sides of the bed, the furniture is new, and I cut off the desk in the picture which is also new...  Its a small room, I have a picture of the stair case where the picture was taken from ,I will load that one next if anyone is interested, I stained the railing to match the ceiling, my wifes idea, I am not crazy about it, when you walk up the stairs which are kind of dark {not easy to run new lights in there}, the railing dissapears because you are looking up where the ceiling is and they are the same color...  I may paint the railing white...


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## Whiskadoodle

" I get the pan very hot and DONT TOUCH them until you are ready to flip {3-4 minutes}, flip once and DONT PRESS on them.* But everyone knows how to cook a burger* so I wont get too far into that... "


Tisn't necessarily so.   We stopped with friends at a local bar/ tavern this weekend for burgers and some sports on their TV's.   Where we were sitting, we could look directly into the small kitchen,  watched the cook flipping burgers on the large  flat top area, cooking a lot at a time.  Every time he flipped a few burgers,  he pressed down on them with his spatula, and then for good measure,  pressed again on ones that already been flipped.  Made the atmosphere smell quite nice, greasy burger, onion, kind of smell,  enticing in that bar setting kind of way.  I have had their burgers before and they seemed a little dry and lacking in flavor.   Now I know why.


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## Cooking4to

Whiskadoodle said:


> " I get the pan very hot and DONT TOUCH them until you are ready to flip {3-4 minutes}, flip once and DONT PRESS on them.* But everyone knows how to cook a burger* so I wont get too far into that... "
> 
> 
> Tisn't necessarily so.   We stopped with friends at a local bar/ tavern this weekend for burgers and some sports on their TV's.   Where we were sitting, we could look directly into the small kitchen,  watched the cook flipping burgers on the large  flat top area, cooking a lot at a time.  Every time he flipped a few burgers,  he pressed down on them with his spatula, and then for good measure,  pressed again on ones that already been flipped.  Made the atmosphere smell quite nice, greasy burger, onion, kind of smell,  enticing in that bar setting kind of way.  I have had their burgers before and they seemed a little dry and lacking in flavor.   Now I know why.




yes, if you want a juicy burger with flavor still in it, DON'T press on it, lol...  I remember a show {I want to say on R.R.'s show} and they said the difference in flavor is HUGE {which I agre} and the burger is still just as fattening, because it is still cooking in the fat, most of that moisture turns to steam because its water too, so you cook away all that goodness and end up with a tasteless burger, as well as most of the time being over cooked...

So flip once, dont touch it, and then put it on the bun..  now I want a burger...


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## FrankZ

I cook a lot of burgers, and they are very good burgers.  I do not buy into this idea about only flip once.  What is the reasonings?  Does the taste fall out?  Does it get too scrambled?  If you don't move the burger and it is in too hot of a zone and is burning does it taste better?

Not pressing on it I get, not touching like you might annoy it into tasting bad is just old cooks tales.  I think it comes from TV people telling us how awesome they are they only need to flip once to have the burger perfect.


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## Cooking4to

Hey Frank, I agree with you, if you love how your burgers come out, do it your way, any other wouldn't make sense..

BUT let me ask you this, why flip more than once?

Heres my thinking, the coolest part of the pan should be the part with the meat touching it, if you are on a grill that can be different since the burger is bleeding fuel..
So I and pretty much everyone I have ever cooked a burger for, likes that dark crispy outside crust, to get that you need to leave it in the same spot and let it come as fast as possible, if you move it you cool the burger and it takes longer to crisp which cooks through the center too fast...

Now some will say, "I don't like pink" well then you need a thinner burger, because if you don't like pink you must love that crust...

it just makes more sense to me not to flip, BUT to each their own, you are eating your burgers and if I ever get the chance to cook you one, I will flip it as many times as you like , but if you cook one for me, I would like it just flipped once and left alone to cook, we all like different things, I cook steak the same way, I let it cook and leave it alone, I cut my own steaks and cook them at room temp so I make sure the thickness is uniform and how I want it, i use the same pan, and the same heat setting, so I know 3 -4 minutes then flip, then another 3 minutes {test to see how stiff it is} and take it off when I am happy, but no flipping around or pressing on my meats...


I will be honest, I do get tempted to flip a few times, but I am worried it will cook more on one side than the other, right?  if you flip once they should be pretty uniform, if you flip twice you are cooking on the first side a lot longer, so 3 times to be uniform, I just don't get it.   Maybe try just flipping once, maybe you will become a believer...

I know my brother flips his burgers all around the pan until the are done, I can tell the difference, his doesnt have the savory crust or caramel color, for some reason when cooked lower longer and flipped they get a blacker color and not uniform through out the surface...  I tell him he needs to make his own buns, he would be too busy working and not bored waiting for the meat to cook he wouldn't touch them..  because he admits mine are better but can not stop touching them while they cook..



Also I know some people will think, "WTH its just a burger, get over yourself", but cooking is a hobby for me, I do it for fun and function, if i just wanted to eat a burger I would go to applebees, lol...  I want "the perfect" burger, I want to cook my guests a burger so after when they have a good burger somewhere else they say "this is good, but that one he cooked for me was amazing, I bit into it and it flooded my mouth with flavor, I normally could never eat the entire thing but I couldn't stop eating it"...  

I guess that is "where the proof lies" I have gotten phone calls after asking :how do I make that burger you made", "what meat do I buy to make a burger like you made the other day", "I can't eat burger king anymore, you ruined it for me"....  LOL, its fun, try something new, don't fight it, if you follow post 1 to the letter and it isn't one of the top 3 burgers you ever ate, then no harm done, I am sure it will be good, but then it shows you like your way better...


As far as the tv cooks go, I don't know?  I think I am just not good enough to flip it a bunch of times, because when I used to do that, they werent as good, I asked chefs why their burgers and meats were so good and they all say the same thing, "dont touch it, let it cook, then let it sit a bit, then eat it..."


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## powerplantop

This is why I flip multiple times. 

The Burger Lab: How Often Should You Flip a Burger? | Serious Eats


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## FrankZ

I am not saying one should continuously flip a burger, I am saying one shouldn't be so worried about not flipping/moving it.  There is not some black sorcery that will cause your burger to be bad if you flip twice.  You might mess up those pretty grill marks, but the burger will be good.

I suspect in blind taste tests people can't tell how many times a burger was flipped.  They likely can tell if you smashed it after significant cooking time.


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## Andy M.

Interesting link PPO.  Thanks.

When I cook burgers on the gas grill, I keep the lid closed to retain heat.  I flip once.  Flipping every 15 seconds would preclude cooking with the lid closed.  It might be interesting to try flipping more than once.  At least until I add the cheese...


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## Cooking4to

powerplantop said:


> This is why I flip multiple times.
> 
> The Burger Lab: How Often Should You Flip a Burger? | Serious Eats



I have read that article, the funny part is I think the flipped one burger looked better, as far the "over cooked" meat they refer to I don't see it, I guess I will always just be a one flipper, I flip once, if you are constantly flipping when would you add your cheese if you like it melted on


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## taxlady

Interesting link, thanks PPO. He gives the suggestion of prebaking the burgers and then searing. I suspect sous-vide would work better.


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## Kayelle

I love this place.


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## CraigC

So, on the grill, reverse sear would be the best method for a perfect burger?


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## taxlady

CraigC said:


> So, on the grill, reverse sear would be the best method for a perfect burger?


The article talks about what happens with a cast iron grill on the stove top. I don't think we can draw any conclusions about how it works when grilling. I think that needs investigating. We have a lot of folks here at DC. Maybe we should have a grilled burger experiment.


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## CharlieD

Copied and saved the recipe for hamburger buns. And even ordered the conditioner already. We can get very good kosher buns here, but not in the store. I basically have to keep asking my neighbor for the favor, he can get them from me from his father's bakery, which is commercial and happens to be kosher, but they do not sell to public.  This way I can make my own. Thank you.


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## Dawgluver

When I was in high school, many eons ago, I worked at our little town's most popular fast food place.  The cooks always flipped and pressed the patties, and the burgers were the tastiest in town.


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## RPCookin

Cooking4to said:


> I have read that article, the funny part is I think the flipped one burger looked better, as far the "over cooked" meat they refer to I don't see it, I guess I will always just be a one flipper, I flip once, if you are constantly flipping when would you add your cheese if you like it melted on



He covers that too.  You add the cheese when the internal temperature is about 10° less than your preferred finish point.  For a medium rare burger, he says to add the cheese at 115° internal temp.

he covered the negative aspects of the flipping constantly too.  It doesn't work for a large group because of the constant attention required.  If you flip every 15 seconds, then you can only cook as many at once as you can flip in 15 seconds.  His real point was that flipping several times does nothing to hurt the cooking process - that is just a burger myth.




Dawgluver said:


> When I was in high school, many eons ago, I worked at our little town's most popular fast food place.  The cooks always flipped and pressed the patties, and the burgers were the tastiest in town.



Doesn't say a lot for the burgers in that town then, does it? 

While I don't always buy into everything that is written or suggested for burger making, this is one that really makes sense.  Once the fats and juices have liquified (maximum of one minute into the cooking on the first side), pressing the patty is just like wringing out a sponge.  For a fairly thick burger that just kills it.  If you want it smashed, do it immediately.  There is absolutely no reason to do it again on the second side, since if it's done correctly the first time, the second side is already flat and making maximum contact with the pan or griddle.  Additional pressing does nothing but squeeze out juices.  That burger may be very crusty and tasty, but it will be drier than an identical burger which has not been pressed on the second side, and no more tasty.

I am a bit of a burger fanatic, and although I have rarely found a burger I couldn't eat, I would take a pass if I saw the cook doing this.  Not that it would be inedible, but there are better burgers to be found, so why pay my money to a place which hasn't learned such a basic rule.


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## CharlieD

Common sense says not to press the patties so not to squeeze out the juices that will keep the hamburger moist and soft. But it doesn't mean that one cannot make a good hamburger even if he/she does press the patties during cooking.


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