# Is it real, or is it Tex-Mex?



## Lugaru (Jul 20, 2007)

Is it real, or is it Tex-Mex?
Mexico wants the world to know what food is authentic
By OLGA R. RODRIGUEZ
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

MEXICO CITY -- Worried by the global proliferation of deep fat-fried chimichangas, fajitas, margaritas and fried ice cream, the Mexican government is recruiting U.S. and Canadian restaurateurs to set the world straight on what is real Mexican food.

Read the full article here:
Is it real, or is it Tex-Mex?

(Lugaru has long been annoyed that people strive to eat "authentic" ethnic food but are willing to douse tortilla shells in sour cream and call it Mexican, about as much of a crime as manifest destiny was).


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## skilletlicker (Jul 20, 2007)

Thanks for posting the article Lugaro, I enjoyed it.  Do you have any pig feet recipes to share?  About your comment at the end.

(skilletlicker finds it a tad hyperbolic)


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## GB (Jul 20, 2007)

Great article! It seems that Mexican food is one cuisines that is most confused in the US. Italian and Chinese are up there too, but I think Mexican probably takes the cake.


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## Caine (Jul 20, 2007)

GB said:
			
		

> ...I think Mexican probably takes the cake.


Cake? What cake? There was no cake. It was fried ice cream. Didn't you read the article?


ETA: Americans know what real Mexican cuisine is all about. This Carlos Gonzalez character obviously never watched Rick Bayless on PBS


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## mitmondol (Jul 20, 2007)

Finaly! It hurts to watch what people eat as "Mexican" here. Including my S(on)IL, whose favorite place is Chili's and he thinks he is eating good authentic Mexican food.
I'm lucky to know some great Mexican cooks and have learned a lot from them.
Boy, was SIL shocked when I cooked only REAL Mexican for a b'day party!
He loved all of it and didn't recognize any of the dishes (no wonder)
I truely love and appreciate Mexican food. In my opinion it is one of the tastiest cuisines, with deep, complex flavors, that you get none of in the usual Mex restaurants.
It upsets me, because the same (no, a lot worse) is happening with my native cuisine.
As I always say, don't mind if ppl twist the original dishes around, just don't call them what they are not anymore!

Yes GB is right, same is happening with Chinese food too (and many others I'm sure).
Can't eat in regular Chinese restaurants, but LOVE the food in Chinatown in SF!!
Don't even care to know what I'm eating (many times I don't), everything is great and very different from the usual offerings.


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 20, 2007)

Depends on where you live TexMex is what it says a version of mexican and Texan,California Mex I think they started the sour cream thing,Arizona also has its own version, here in New Mexico its different in different parts of the state then there is Northern New Mexico food which is different but my favorite because of the green and red chile grown here.But to me if you say authentic Mexican would mean to me Old Mexico and I think some places try to adapt to where they start as authentic mexican to draw business because if it doesnt sound somewhat familiar people wont go there.Also in Old Mexico food is regional so what you had in one part of the country will be totally different in another part no different than any other country in the world.


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## skilletlicker (Jul 20, 2007)

*Taco Bell is not Tex-Mex*

I'm going to be accused again of irrelevant historical perspective but I'll risk it and share a few thoughts anyway.

Mexican culture and cuisine is regional, not monolithic.  I would love to see a cooking show that discusses and demonstrates this like _Molto Mario_ does for Italian.  Rick Bayless does some it now.

The Tejas region and the Tejano culture predates Mexican independence from Spain.  That culture didn't die with the with Mexican independence, Texan independence or the Mexican American War.  Tejano cooking existed long before Taco Bell or the first Mexican restaurant in Boston and that is what should properly be called Tex-Mex whether a dish was first named in Eagle Pass, Texas or across the river in Piedras Negras, part of Coahuila, Mexico.  To some extent this continuation of Mexican culture inside the US is true from Texas to California and north clear to Wyoming.


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## Lugaru (Jul 20, 2007)

Having spent a lot of time in new Mexico (and Arizona) I must admit you find a lot of things on the menu there which are very similar to Mexican cooking, although the spice is usually off the charts. 

Btw if anybody is in Boston I cannot recomend Tu y Yo enough, authentic food all the way down to crickets (cruncy!). There's a review on my site. 

And about taking the cake... I might track down a "pastel de las tres leches" recipe for the forum. A very moist cake with a cup of condense milk, one of half and half and one of... sweetened I think? Gotta go dig for it.


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## Robo410 (Jul 20, 2007)

Anthony Bordaine does a show on Mexico on his No Reservations program.  It is quite good.

The CIA in Hyde PArk has been given a grant to establish a campus in San Antonio specializing in Latino cuisines.  Quite an opportunity.

I think we will see Latin American Cuisines and African cuisines establish themselves strongly in the next decade.  

However, the average eater is not interested in authentic cuisine, but in quick and easy and what's familiar.  For better or worse, both elements will co-exist well into the fututre.


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## GB (Jul 21, 2007)

Robo410 said:
			
		

> the average eater is not interested in authentic cuisine, but in quick and easy and what's familiar.


I only think the second half of that statement is correct. I further think that if authentic cuisine was familiar to them then they would be just as interested as they are in non-authentic cuisine (with some exceptions). The majority of people only eat what they eat because it is available and easy to access. If authentic places popped up and were easy to get to them more people would be into them.


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## Lugaru (Jul 21, 2007)

I have to agree... my perspective is tainted because I went from Mexico to Boston with only a brief stop in middle america (West Virginia) but so many people see Pad Thai as comfort food, or Pho as a good way to kick off a weekend after partying too much. For me Dim Sum is a wonderful way to get together friends and family. As you learn about these things they become part of your life, you dont become mexican or asian but your own soul is enritched. Also Unlike film and music, food has no language element, no translation is necesary. 

But I would love to see the Mexican style of eating a bit more here, for example burritos are tiny, a good tortilla with a dab of filling. You normally eat 3 or so in a sitting. These blimps... they just dont make sense to me. I rather a wrap (say turkey and swiss) than a burrito because it seems more like a sandwich as oposed to a filling to compliment a freshly made tortilla. Likewise Im used to places where you can sit, order 2 or 3 tacos, get something else and just eat as you go along. I feel that dining here can be too rigid... apetizer, entree, desert. Coffee. Check please. I would rather see more stuff like single tacos and single burritos and half orders of things.


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## BettyR (Jul 21, 2007)

The “Mexican” food that we cook and eat here is Tex-Mex; but it’s what we have grown up eating and so it’s what we like. But then isn’t that what America is all about; the blending of cultures? 

We have a very large Hispanic population here in the South Eastern part of Texas and our two cultures have blended; I don’t see that as something bad.


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## mitmondol (Jul 21, 2007)

No, it is not bad at all! Tex-Mex is good!
The only bad thing is - at least it makes me angry - to have Tex-Mex food in a "Mexican" restaurant and call it authentic Mexican food!
Same with other cuisines. It is not right!
I am proud of my culinary heritage and do not like to see authentic Hu recipes twisted around and still called "authentic"
So, I think other people feel (or should) the same way about their culinary heritage.
Tex-Mex IS good, but it's NOT Mexican.

By the way, what would be considered authentic American food?
People in EU asked me that and I didn't have an answer.


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## GB (Jul 21, 2007)

mitmondol said:
			
		

> By the way, what would be considered authentic American food?
> People in EU asked me that and I didn't have an answer.


Some things that come to my mind would be BBQ and soul food, New England boiled dinner, Hamburgers, (not to mention fast food junk ).


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## GB (Jul 21, 2007)

mitmondol said:
			
		

> No, it is not bad at all! Tex-Mex is good!
> The only bad thing is - at least it makes me angry - to have Tex-Mex food in a "Mexican" restaurant and call it authentic Mexican food!
> Same with other cuisines. It is not right!
> I am proud of my culinary heritage and do not like to see authentic Hu recipes twisted around and still called "authentic"
> ...


EXACTLY!!! Very well said!


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## PytnPlace (Jul 21, 2007)

Great article but I don't get bothered by any of this.   No country can exactly replicate another countries cusine.  There is always a bit of fusion involved based on the local countries access to ingredients and tastes.   That's just the way it is across the board.  Heck, FF taste different here they they do in Belgium.  I've never had Fish & chips here with the fish skin still intact.  But in England they leave the skin on, etc. etc.  Incidently, I'd rather have a burrito then fried pigs feet with egg.  Just me tho.


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## skilletlicker (Jul 21, 2007)

mitmondol said:
			
		

> No, it is not bad at all! Tex-Mex is good!
> The only bad thing is - at least it makes me angry - to have Tex-Mex food in a "Mexican" restaurant and call it authentic Mexican food!
> Same with other cuisines. It is not right!
> I am proud of my culinary heritage and do not like to see authentic Hu recipes twisted around and still called "authentic"
> ...


 We've had conversations before about authentic American food and it seems to me after you finish talking about Thanksgiving dinner it breaks down into authentic regional cuisines.

I think these tight lines we're trying to draw around what is Mexican and what isn't make more sense if you didn't grow up in a part of the US that used to be part of Mexico.  There are a lot of Mexican cooks who would be amused to hear that their food has been deemed unauthentic in Boston.


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## BettyR (Jul 21, 2007)

Yes I can see what you mean. My grandfather on my mother’s side was from France but he was half French and half German. My grandmother on my mother’s side was Creole / a mixture of French, Spanish and African. My father was German on both sides.

My Grandmother being the cook in the family made traditional Creole food and my mother learning to cook from her mother made traditional Creole food and of course learning to cook from my mother I also cook traditional Creole food but then we moved to Texas and I’ve learned to cook Tex-Mex, I guess you would call it Tex-German and Tex-Polish. 

We also have a large German and Polish population here in Texas. They make some of the best sausage that you have ever put in your mouth. I guess a person from Germany or Poland would be put out by what we call German and Polish food.


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## skilletlicker (Jul 21, 2007)

Betty, your last post highlights another difference in peoples perspective.  If your idea of what defines authentic food comes from home kitchens of friends and family who are first and second generation immigrants, you aren't likely to have the same picture as someones whose ideas were formed primarily by authentic restaurant cuisine or a formal culinary education.  My favorite Mexican restaurants tend to be the ones where I might be the only gringo in the building.


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## auntdot (Jul 21, 2007)

My feeling about this is get with reality folks

 I am an old person and have seen my most sacred of drinks, the martini, turned into everything it is not.  Without a whimper or whine from the general populace.

I accepted it.

I have also seen food that never, ever would be served in China in Chinese restaurants (yep, there was a time I could translate the menus in Chinese restaurants in in NY and SF Chinatowns and order from them). Most Americans have no idea what authentic Chinese food is.

Heck have a second cousin once removed who went to China and compained they could not make a decent pepper steak. Just an example.

If a restaurant wishes to call their food authentic anything, well, it seems to me one can try it and decide if they like it or not.  And then go back, or not,  or try to find a lawyer who will press a suit for some law I know nothing about.

"Your honor, that place says they serve true Oaxacan cuisine and no self respecting Oazacan would ever eat that slop."

Good luck pressing that case.

Look, once a region's or county's cuisine is up for interpretation it will be, well, interpreted.

Sorry.  But that is the way cooks are.

I do feel a bit peckish at the moment, sorry.


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## BettyR (Jul 21, 2007)

skilletlicker said:
			
		

> Betty, your last post highlights another difference in peoples perspective.  If your idea of what defines authentic food comes from home kitchens of friends and family who are first and second generation immigrants, you aren't likely to have the same picture as someones whose ideas were formed primarily by authentic restaurant cuisine or a formal culinary education.  My favorite Mexican restaurants tend to be the ones where I might be the only gringo in the building.




Yes, you are correct. There is nothing more Texan than a Chicken Fried Steak; but this dish was born of the German fritter. 

So I guess you would have to answer the question of what is authentic Ethnic food, the food that is cooked and eaten on a daily basis by the people who live in said country or the food that is prepared in the ethnic restaurant. 

I was raised in a French speaking Creole community and when I go into a Cajun restaurant I don’t really see much of anything that I recognize as what I grew up eating. The names are the same but the food is not.


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## ironchef (Jul 21, 2007)

Robo410 said:
			
		

> the average eater is not interested in authentic cuisine, but in quick and easy and what's familiar.


 


			
				GB said:
			
		

> I only think the second half of that statement is correct. I further think that if authentic cuisine was familiar to them then they would be just as interested as they are in non-authentic cuisine (with some exceptions). The majority of people only eat what they eat because it is available and easy to access. If authentic places popped up and were easy to get to them more people would be into them.


 
The word CHEAP also needs to be added into that statement to make it correct. That's the reason why places like Olive Garden are so **** popular. It sure as **** isn't because it's good or authentic.


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## Andy M. (Jul 21, 2007)

ironchef said:
			
		

> ...places like Olive Garden are so **** popular. It sure as **** isn't because it's good or authentic.


 

Golly gee, ironchef, what about Olive Garden's Culinary Institute of Tuscany??


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## ironchef (Jul 21, 2007)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> Golly gee, ironchef, what about Olive Garden's Culinary Institute of Tuscany??


 
You know, I would be interested in going there just to see what it is they do at that place. One of my friends told me a while ago that Olive Garden was now making risotto on their menu. So I checked it out (it's a shrimp and asparagus risotto) and sure enough, they bastardized it by putting in parmesan cheese. If that's the sort of things they are "learning" at their Culinary Institute of Tuscany, they may as well just close up shop. They can just stay home and learn how to make risotto the wrong way.


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## mitmondol (Jul 21, 2007)

[quote. 

So I guess you would have to answer the question of what is authentic Ethnic food, the food that is cooked and eaten on a daily basis by the people who live in said country or the food that is prepared in the ethnic restaurant. 


Authentic ethnic? What is cooked on a daily bases in the country of origin of a dish.
Whatever is interpreted (or riuned in most cases) is NOT the above.
Still could be good food as I said earlier, but should be called something else.

 The names are the same but the food is not.

And that is my problem.

I was once offered a "Chicken paprikas" made with ketchup for cryin' out loud!!

Give them another name and don't call them aithentic and I will be fine. Even enjoy those dishes.


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## mitmondol (Jul 21, 2007)

This is interesting read also:

A crash course in Mexico's varied cuisine - CNN.com


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## AllenOK (Jul 23, 2007)

About a month ago, I purchased a copy of Rick Bayless's _Mexican Kitchen_.  I've been reading, re-reading, and making some of the recipes as I can.  I love them!

We have a growing Hispanic community here in east Tulsa as well.  There are a few Mexican grocery stores, and even a Tortilleria just a few miles from here.  I've spent time in them, browsing, buying a few things, etc.

I can fully understand the comment about "the only gringo in the house".


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## Caine (Jul 23, 2007)

That's why I hate going into the "authentic" Mexican restaurants in my area. The service is outrageously slow because everyone who works in the kitchen has to come out and see the gringo that's speaking Spanish. I have the same reaction when I go into Pilipino restaurants and grocery stores and start speaking tagalog. What, they think ALL Americans brains are so small, they can only hold one language?


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## skilletlicker (Jul 23, 2007)

AllenOK said:
			
		

> We have a growing Hispanic community here in east Tulsa as well.  There are a few Mexican grocery stores, and even a Tortilleria just a few miles from here.  I've spent time in them, browsing, buying a few things, etc.


 I have found developing a relationship with the neighborhood Mexican grocery rewarding and worth while.  It has a great dairy case, a fair selection of good Mexican produce, and a good meat counter.  The only person working in the store who speaks English is the young girl behind the counter but if they aren't busy she will translate with the butcher, owner, or a customer for me.  I've rarely seen another customer speak English; never as their primary language.

Almost all the patrons of this little mercado also occasionally shop at one large, locally owned supermarket.  It carries all things Anglo but also goes out of the way to cater to the Hispanic community.  Learning my way around that store was another big help.  I bet there is a supermarket filling the same niche in Tulsa.


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## skilletlicker (Jul 23, 2007)

Caine said:
			
		

> That's why I hate going into the "authentic" Mexican restaurants in my area. The service is outrageously slow because everyone who works in the kitchen has to come out and see the gringo that's speaking Spanish. I have the same reaction when I go into Pilipino restaurants and grocery stores and start speaking tagalog. What, they think ALL Americans brains are so small, they can only hold one language?


 I doubt if speaking Spanish attracts much attention.  Maybe it is what you say or how you say it, instead of the language you say it in.


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## ironchef (Jul 23, 2007)

skilletlicker said:
			
		

> I doubt if speaking Spanish attracts much attention. Maybe it is what you say or how you say it, instead of the language you say it in.


 
Yeah, instead of saying, "Dame cerveza, por favor", maybe you're saying, "Dame cabeza, por favor."


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## mudbug (Jul 23, 2007)

auntdot said:
			
		

> My feeling about this is get with reality folks
> 
> I am an old person and have seen my most sacred of drinks, the martini, turned into everything it is not. Without a whimper or whine from the general populace.
> 
> ...



auntdot, I always like it when you are feeling peckish (and even when you are feeling peevish).  You have a knack for introducing sense into these kinds of discussions.


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## Caine (Jul 23, 2007)

skilletlicker said:
			
		

> I doubt if speaking Spanish attracts much attention.


It does if you're a white boy, and the only white boy in the place!


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## skilletlicker (Jul 23, 2007)

Caine said:
			
		

> It does if you're a white boy, and the only white boy in the place!


My Spanish is limited but gets me by in a pinch.   I have never had the experience you describe as a customer in a place of business.  The fact that you routinely seem to, strongly suggests you are feeling what the shrinks call projection.


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## AllenOK (Jul 23, 2007)

skilletlicker said:
			
		

> I bet there is a supermarket filling the same niche in Tulsa.



More than one, that's for sure!  The Super-Wally-World that I normally shop at also has quite a bit of Hispanic merchandise.  Heck, the ASIAN grocery store I also shop at has started carrying Hispanic merchandise!  The really nice thing, is the Asian place and the Mexican place are less than a quarter-mile apart.  The Tortilleria is next door to the Mexican place.

I think most, if not all, of the Wally-Worlds in town carry a large amount of Latin merchandise.  Some of the other big-name stores also carry some stuff.  I can find annatto seeds (achiote) at a Reasor's, and no where else, even the Mexican places.  Go figure........


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 23, 2007)

The WM in Trinidad,CO and the local grocery store here in Raton also carriy alot of Mexican Products, Mexican Cheeses,Spices,Canned Goods,Mexican sodas etc its great.In the south west its the norm as we have a huge hispanic population which is normal,But again its regional most people have never heard of dried posole (hominy) which is delicious rather than canned or frozen.In other places blue corn meal or blue corn meal tortillas are readily available although I believe its more indian but thats what it is all about, fusion cooking years before that term came out. I dont care where I go in the South West the red chili and green chili is vastly different and I mean restaurant to restaurant house to house.Again Im a fan of North New Mexcico food southern Colorado also pretty much makes the North New Mexico fare.Where I live a poblano chili is hardly heard of as we have the Hatch Green and red chile grown in southern New Mexico we dont do too much with Tomatiilos either.I think alot of these recipes have their roots from Mexico but people had to adapt using what they had turniing it into another wonderful cuisine.
You guys need to make a trip to New Mexico go to Santa Fe and experience a whole different life style.
Corazon help me on this.


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## skilletlicker (Jul 23, 2007)

jpmcgrew said:
			
		

> You guys need to make a trip to New Mexico go to Santa Fe and experience a whole different life style.
> Corazon help me on this.


 Ma'am, I made many youthful trips through New Mexico. Pulling around a mountain curve and seeing Albuquerque's lights open up below the cliff is one of my favorite memories.


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## AllenOK (Jul 24, 2007)

It's been 15 years since I've been out there.  Now you're making me think about a road trip!  The drive from Cimmaron to Taos is a great one.  If I remember right, that's where a lot of the car manufacturers test-drive their new models under real-world conditions.


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## skilletlicker (Jul 24, 2007)

jpmcgrew said:
			
		

> I think alot of these recipes have their roots from Mexico but people had to adapt using what they had turniing it into another wonderful cuisine.


And although it might have evolved some since, that distinct cuisine existed before  Mexico ceded the territory to the US, which is why I have such a hard time understanding the central point of this thread.  I guess the style of cooking you describe was authentically Mexican before the Treaty of Guadalupe Hildago, but not after.

Either way it's good eatin in my book.


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## Lugaru (Jul 25, 2007)

I also recomend Mexican food and Mexican recipes at MexGrocer.com for the miscelania you sometimes cant get. But then you might not need it, here in Boston it's very latin but not very Mexican, so most stores dont carry what I need.

Edit: I did a little backwards read...

On being the odd guy out: I basically look like some white guy (some mexicans do) but I dont feel out of place where everyone is of another ethnicity. Maybe it's because I already had to adapt to a new country, but seriosly go to a hole in the wall PHO place and you will see more and more latinos, because there is just something wholesome and old fasioned about it. It's like having grandma's soup if you grew up in parts of the south or in Mexico, only with some extra ingredients. 

On the Olive Garden: some movie or comic had a joke once where some mobsters planing a betrayal meet at the Olive Garden because they knew that it was the last place they would run into a fellow italian mobster or their immediate family.


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## Rom (Jul 30, 2007)

Will have to read the article when i get home, its blocked from work.


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## Lugaru (Jul 31, 2007)

Rom said:
			
		

> Will have to read the article when i get home, its blocked from work.



That's because it is full of swearing and scary images. 

Oh wait no, that's my okcupid profile... the food article is fine.


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## Rom (Jul 31, 2007)

LOL@Lugaru


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## scottsdale (Jul 31, 2007)

jpmcgrew said:
			
		

> You guys need to make a trip to New Mexico go to Santa Fe and experience a whole different life style.


 
I wholeheartedly agree with you, there's nothing like Northern New Mexico. Even within the state, there are huge variations in "Mexican food." In Taos you'll find "authentic" black beans in nearly every restaurant, but you couldn't find a black bean in Gallup or Las Cruces.

Throughout New Mexico, a sopapilla is puffy dough. In Southern New Mexico, people tend to eat it with their meal, to sop up the chile. In Northern New Mexico, it's most often eaten after the meal with honey. Some people squish it flat and put honey on top; others bite off a corner and drip honey inside. (That's how I do it.)

Elsewhere in the U.S., I've been served "sopapillas" that were doughnuts, fried tortillas with chocolate sauce, and frybread covered in cinnamon-sugar. 

Part of me wants to say "cuisine is regional, nobody's correct, yada yada." 

But it's more satisfying to say these people are wrong, and there's only one right way to make a sopapilla, and it should be served after the meal and the honey goes on the inside.


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 31, 2007)

." 

But it's more satisfying to say these people are wrong, and there's only one right way to make a sopapilla, and it should be served after the meal and the honey goes on the inside.[/quote]
 You are so right not only is the sopapilla at least to me eaten after the meal with honey but its used to sopp up the sauce off plate.Some people like to put honey on their enchiladas or burritos smotherd with red or green chile sauce plates especially if they are hot spice wise.


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## AllenOK (Jul 31, 2007)

When I was a kid, my mother would ocassionally treat us with sopapillas, which we ripped off the corner when hot, drizzled in honey, and downed them.

When I worked at a cajun place here in Tulsa, they did "beignets", made with sopapillas mix, and dusted them with powdered sugar.  Basically, to me, it was the same as a sopapilla, just a different sweetener.


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 31, 2007)

Northern NM is a class of its own it does go into Southern Colorado.Black beans are not well known but in Old Mexico its standard.I love black beans but again I love all kinds of beans.


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## corazon (Jul 31, 2007)

Here are some interesting links:
New Mexican cuisine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mexican cuisine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tex-Mex cuisine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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