# Supermarket Slobs!



## Fish

Just nipped in to my local supermarket and the amount of ppl that have their trollies stacked high with processed pre-cooked CRAP has shocked me.....is it just me or does it 'seem' to be easier to wack something in the oven for half hour, dish it up and serve...why???

Is it really such a massive effort to prepare veggies and glaze some fresh meat to cook in the oven?? who actually said that if you cook from scratch that it has to be gourmet style...

Slow cookers are so easy to use and once you have everything in it (choice of meat,veg,herbs,veg stock..) cook on high for 7+ hours all day you will have yummy hearty meals that contain ONLY what you have put in them!!!!! Any 1 else see this or are the ppl in my home town going to the dogs?


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## Constance

When I had the greenhouses, I had a young woman working for me who was quite plump, which was surprising to me, because she was a hard worker. One day she brought something (don't remember what) to work in a grocery bag, and I later found her itemized grocery receipt in it. It was sixty dollars of nothing but chips, sodas, candy, doughnuts, dessert cakes and other junk.


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## Selkie

Yes, it is easier! People are becoming more lazy by the day. Many just don't want to use that thing between their ears and have to think about a menu, the ingredients to fulfill the menu, find everything they need 9in the supermarket, do the preparation, cook it, and then clean up afterward.

The idea of actually cooking, terrifies most people!!! Now, they can just visit the freezer section, come away with a load of prepared meals, quickly microwave them, and throw away the container/tray, leaving no dirty dishes behind.

Whose fault is it? Parents of the '60s & '70s. Many didn't spend time in the kitchen with their children, teaching the skills to run a household, nor personal values. Instead, they let their children do whatever they wanted, which was run amok, learn all about drugs and sex, which was a lot more fun than learning to make an apple pie, wash dishes, weed a flower bed or perform preventive maintenance on an automobile. The kids of those days never had a sense of responsibility or sensibility impressed upon them. And by the way, I was of that rebellious generation but I had firm, loving parents (loving meaning teaching what I should know to be a good adult and have self respect.)

Lazy begets lazy, and now we're seeing the fruit of that sloven behavior. But this is just my opinion.


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## sparrowgrass

Wait just a cotton picking minute there, Selkie. I am one of those children of the 60's/70's (born in 1954), and I managed to learn about apple pie and washing dishes AND sex and drugs.


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## Andy M.

In the post war in the US, the food industry began introducing prepared/processed foods.  I can remember the fuss over TV dinners, Hamburger Helper, etc.  It was a national movement to embrace the ease of dinner preparation by using these products.  TV was full of them.  That made many lazy.  It was just too easy and "look, it's the in thing to do".


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## Poppi G. Koullias

I have been guilty of buying dubious ready meals when, after a long day's  working I can't be doing with cooking. After a 12 hour shift  repairing/customising bikes I just don't feel like going home to cook.  My feet ache, my head aches and I'm usually covered in engine oil. And  British supermarkets, they offer huge choice, whereas in my country, there is so  little. The British supermarkets brand "budget meals" which are  disgusting, admittedly. But then, some families on tight budgets can not  afford the high cost of fresh fruits, fresh vegetables and meat many  others take for granted, are on higher income. 

So, I see the same in my  local Sainsbury's, young mothers buying "crap food". But, they only need  to be informed that really, nourishing food can be bought  on a budget. Like pulses and reduced-price veg, fruit and bread at the end of  the store's trading day.

But people have habits, just the same as their shopping lists are so  written. It matters none what age they are. Old habits never die.

However, in my country, most of my people are poor and grow their own although fruit and veg is cheap to buy. Melons are 40 cents kilo, same with oranges and most fruit bar exotic imports. Meat is always fresh, averagely priced, but like dairy produce - limited. Most families have a resident pig, goat and lamb being fattened up for Christmas and Easter. But we shoot our own turkeys and partridge.


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## Secundinius

I've noticed this as well. It's quite disturbing that the chances are, most of the people you see buying this stuff probably grew up watching either mom or grandma cooking from scratch in the kitchen. 

I'm just as guilty of the bad-food-shopping-list as anyone else, but now that I am trying to change that I'm noticing it a lot more. People walk right past the veggies, even though you have to walk through them in every market I've gone in, and they go right for the pre-cooked products from the deli/hot foods section or the "tv dinners" in the frozen aisle. It's concerning how lazy we are being when it comes to food and the effects it has on our lives and how ignorantly we lap up all these ads (at least here in America) about how food that is proven to be bad "really isn't" according to "professionals." (Corn Growers Association, in case someone didn't get the referrence)

I'm not extremely PC when I see someone park right next to the door, waddle in and grab a "power cart" (if they don't have their own) and get nothing but the high fat-low content prepared meals, bags upon bags of chips and several combined gallons of soda. What's even worse is when their chubby 8-year-old is sitting on their lap, going along for the ride. I do try to keep the peace by only thinking things and not just loudly blurting them out, though there have been times... 

Sad fact is, our society has evolved into a high paced mess where people worship the almighty dollar, spending their waking hours trying to earn as many as they can and when it comes time for anything else, they need to take shortcuts because they have no time left. In come other people worshipping the almighty dollar and they make all of theirs off these people by selling them the most convenient "meals" they can. 

Sorry for the long read. I'm not exactly sparknotes friendly with some of my posts. This is something that definitely gets on my nerves as well. My fiancee and I constantly discuss it and how we want some land when we move out to grow our own foods. It's a shame that people actually continue to do these things in spite of knowing how harmful they are. 

EDIT: Selkie, I am a 26 year old male, who learned how to do laundry at 5, cook at 7, and sew and iron at 10. Though I fully understand and agree with your statement, applying more to my generation then the one before it, I am proof that there are exceptions to the rule.


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## bakechef

I work in a grocery store and it is quite shocking to say the least.

Many people have this idea in their head that to eat healthy is very expensive, and they have to switch to all organic items.  So they continue to buy pure processed crap, thinking that it is cheaper.  Many don't see the more reasonable middle ground, buying ingredients and making meals from them, fresh meat can be had quite cheap, if you are a saavy shopper, dry goods such as pasta, rice, beans couscous, are dirt cheap in their unprepared form.  It is really easy where I live to get plain frozen veg for a dollar or less a pound when on sale, those are the times to stock up.

Then there are those that see tv chefs cook and get discouraged beecause the dishes that they see on tv could cost 30 dollars or more to make when buying specialty ingredients.

I would love to teach a cooking basics class, just to show how easy and inexpensive cooking can be if you know how to cook from scratch, instead of a bag, box or bottle.


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## babetoo

i am guilty of eating a couple of prepared meals in a month. am cooking for just me. sometimes i just don't want to mess with it. i buy mostly lean q's for the occasional meal. 

for most part i cook from scratch. i grocery shop on line, so have no clue about what others buy.


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## Poppi G. Koullias

Secundinius said:


> I've noticed this as well. It's quite disturbing that the chances are, most of the people you see buying this stuff probably grew up watching either mom or grandma cooking from scratch in the kitchen.
> 
> Sad fact is, our society has evolved into a high paced mess where people worship the almighty dollar, spending their waking hours trying to earn as many as they can and when it comes time for anything else, they need to take shortcuts because they have no time left. In come other people worshipping the almighty dollar and they make all of theirs off these people by selling them the most convenient "meals" they can.




Only "budget-type" ready meals are bad because the meat is oftne injected with water to plump it up (as in the case of chicken breast), and otherwise, very cheap cuts of meat and terrible ingredients are added to things like sausages, packed out with rusk.

I suppose that my working up to 70 hours a week might be seen to be excessive, but work has to be done as I own a motorbike garage and I can not afford taking on more staff. So I go home with my Sainsbury's Cumberland Pie/Fish Pie ready meal, feed my boy and feed myself. But I am a high earner, so can afford to buy high quality ready meals, and suppliment it with fresh fruit for desserts. You earns your money and you spends it likewise.

If, however, I was a stay-at-home-wife, my culinary life would be far different.

At weekends, eating is far different. Everything is cooked. One is relaxed and happy; less stressed. Boy's face is filled, dishes are consigned to the dishwasher and then I'll join my family and watch TV.

Society will always be a high paced mess. It's the sign of the times I'm afraid, and eating has often to be on the hoof.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

Secundinius said:


> I've noticed this as well. It's quite disturbing that the chances are, most of the people you see buying this stuff probably grew up watching either mom or grandma cooking from scratch in the kitchen.
> 
> I'm just as guilty of the bad-food-shopping-list as anyone else, but now that I am trying to change that I'm noticing it a lot more. People walk right past the veggies, even though you have to walk through them in every market I've gone in, and they go right for the pre-cooked products from the deli/hot foods section or the "tv dinners" in the frozen aisle. It's concerning how lazy we are being when it comes to food and the effects it has on our lives and how ignorantly we lap up all these ads (at least here in America) about how food that is proven to be bad "really isn't" according to "professionals." (Corn Growers Association, in case someone didn't get the referrence)
> 
> I'm not extremely PC when I see someone park right next to the door, waddle in and grab a "power cart" (if they don't have their own) and get nothing but the high fat-low content prepared meals, bags upon bags of chips and several combined gallons of soda. What's even worse is when their chubby 8-year-old is sitting on their lap, going along for the ride. I do try to keep the peace by only thinking things and not just loudly blurting them out, though there have been times...
> 
> Sad fact is, our society has evolved into a high paced mess where people worship the almighty dollar, spending their waking hours trying to earn as many as they can and when it comes time for anything else, they need to take shortcuts because they have no time left. In come other people worshipping the almighty dollar and they make all of theirs off these people by selling them the most convenient "meals" they can.
> 
> Sorry for the long read. I'm not exactly sparknotes friendly with some of my posts. This is something that definitely gets on my nerves as well. My fiancee and I constantly discuss it and how we want some land when we move out to grow our own foods. It's a shame that people actually continue to do these things in spite of knowing how harmful they are.
> 
> EDIT: Selkie, I am a 26 year old male, who learned how to do laundry at 5, cook at 7, and sew and iron at 10. Though I fully understand and agree with your statement, applying more to my generation then the one before it, I am proof that there are exceptions to the rule.


 
Though my parents, especially my mother, never took the time to teach me how to cook anything, my stepfather taught me to fry bacon and eggs. while my Dad taught me to make Aunt Jemima pancakes, with sausage, boiled dinner, cook a steak in a cast iron pan, etc.  I had a keen interest in learning how to cook and watched as my grandparnets made country-fried steak, thanksgiving meals, waffles, meat and potatoes, and grilled cheese.  I wathce dmy mother make all of the down-home foods such as baked beans, spaghetti, chili, chicken and dumplings, date filled cookies, etc. 

But it was a personal desire to excell in cooking that pushed me forward.  There are others like me, who disdain unhealthy, prepaired foods.  And there is a whole, world-wide movement, called the "slow foods movement" that rebels agains our "gotta have everything and gotta have it now" societies.  I believe that it is greed that is causing the lazyness.  We want it all, and are willing to work rediculously long houjrs to get it.  Our emplyers want high profit and push us to work those rediculously long hours at relatively low wages.  The people who sell us things, recognize that desire in our civilization to have everything and work to make available to us everything we want, and invent new things for us to desire, and then work with the media to convince us that life isn't complete with whaterver it is that they created.  It's truly a viscious circle that has entrapped a great many people.

It is those people who come to realize that material things don't bring happiness, and that loving relationships, and caring about others does.  It is those people who love their families intensely, who want to make great and healthy food for them.  When a civilization is based on caring about the needs of others, that civilization is healthy, and strong, and thrives.  When it is based on personal greed, then it is destined to fail, and for its members to be unhealthy in body, in thoughts, and in actions.

I don't like where our civilization is going.  But each of my children follow a path that will fulfill their lives, and give their children the best chance of growing up healthy, happy, and with self respect and dignity.  And that's how I work to make the world a little better place, by starting a legacy of loving families who care about each other, and so take the time to try to do things to the best of their abilities for each other, and for their communities.  That's my answer to our runaway civilization.

And yep, I know that my way isn't the only way.  But in my opinion, it's the best way I know.  Let's here it for the Slow Food Movement.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Caslon

hey!     $5 Fridays.    A roasted chicken!

some slaw, potato salad ready made

A bottle of red wine


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## taxlady

I see the grocery carts overfilled with junk all the time.

I admit, that when we are really busy and have the money, we buy some convenience foods. But, we read labels and are very picky. Heck, you can even get convenience foods at the health food store. But, when it's not too often, it's easy enough to have something like Italian sausage (from my favourite Italian butcher) on organic whole grain hot dog buns.

Most of the time we would rather make a giant batch of pasta sauce and defrost it for a quick meal or a giant batch of stew or something else along those lines.


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## silentmeow

Growing up my Mom cooked fantastic meals from scratch. Nothing fancy but good food.  Dad was in WWII so we also grew up eating everything on our plates, no wasting food!  For snacks we had apples and popcorn was a real treat.  I don't remember eating all the time when I was growing up.  Now I see kids everywhere stuffing their faces all the time. When we sat down to the table we were hungry and we ate!  I started gardening when my kids were little because of the math/money.  I could buy one bag of frozed beans which would last one meal for the same price I could buy a package of seeds.  The seeds gave me 40 some gallon bags of beans in the freezer.  The real plus is that they are pesticide free.  I read somewhere that to have a healthy diet one must shop around the outside walls of the grocery store.  When I think of that it really makes sense, veggies...dairy.....meats!  It's the isles that get you every time!


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## Zhizara

*Laziness*



Selkie said:


> Yes, it is easier! People are becoming more lazy by the day. Many just don't want to use that thing between their ears and have to think about a menu, the ingredients to fulfill the menu, find everything they need 9in the supermarket, do the preparation, cook it, and then clean up afterward.
> 
> The idea of actually cooking, terrifies most people!!! Now, they can just visit the freezer section, come away with a load of prepared meals, quickly microwave them, and throw away the container/tray, leaving no dirty dishes behind.
> 
> Whose fault is it? Parents of the '60s & '70s. Many didn't spend time in the kitchen with their children, teaching the skills to run a household, nor personal values. Instead, they let their children do whatever they wanted, which was run amok, learn all about drugs and sex, which was a lot more fun than learning to make an apple pie, wash dishes, weed a flower bed or perform preventive maintenance on an automobile. The kids of those days never had a sense of responsibility or sensibility impressed upon them. And by the way, I was of that rebellious generation but I had firm, loving parents (loving meaning teaching what I should know to be a good adult and have self respect.)
> 
> Lazy begets lazy, and now we're seeing the fruit of that sloven behavior. But this is just my opinion.



Excellent post, Selkie!!

What's a real shame is that many of the packaged boxes and mixes that these people think of as cooking are much more work than doing it from scratch.  Some of these people will begin to add other ingredients and realize that it's fun to modify the prepackaged dishes and go on to buying and cooking their own pasta or rice and gradually begin to really cook.

What they don't realize is that reading the directions on the box is the same as reading the directions for a recipe.

Hamburger Helper is nothing but a small amount of noodles and a packet of seasonings.

As a teenager, I tried to imitate Hamburger Helper by cooking noodles, browned hamburger and a can of whatever cream of soup we had.  Different spices for different tasting dishes and I ended up with a whole repertoire of meals.  It tasted better and was just as easy.  I had so much fun making simple stroganoff (just add some sour cream and maybe a small can of mushrooms) and the like, that I found out that cooking was creative and could be easy.  We named the recipe GOOP.  I still love to make simple one dish meals/casseroles.


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## PrincessFiona60

Zhizara said:


> We named the recipe GOOP. I still love to make simple one dish meals/casseroles.


 
I make my own GOOP or GLOP.  Usually made when I'm cleaning out the fridge before a shopping trip.


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## mollyanne

"He who is without sin cast the first stone". I'm uncomfortable with the pethora of judgemental comments in this thread. I can say I have never looked in other people's carts to see what they are buying. I have never looked in someone's grocery bag, read their receipt, and cast judgement on what they are buying or why they are plump. Maybe they're buying it for a invalid friend. Maybe their stove is on the blink...or maybe their kitchen is being renovated. When I go to a grocery store I'm on a mission and I'm all about me, my family, and friends. I don't pay any attention to strangers there...why would I? Am I the only one?

I know you're laughing at my seemingly naive statements...yes, the supply of processed food is there because the demand is there, but my point is that we have no business judging strangers in a grocery store. It's arrogant. No?

Furthermore, I see improvements...in America anyway (i'm not familiar with other countries). Educational materials and mass media attention have reached many. More people know about processed foods, exercise, portion control, pyramid w/dailyrequirements, when to eat, why to eat, what to eat, etc than ever before. The awareness is there. It's the other factors that are too many to mention here...will-power, stress, physical issues, and emotional issues are at the top of the list. 

Maybe they just lost 100 lbs but they're having a bad day and are feeling weak for one day. Anyone here ever had a bad day?

Some people have more of those issues than others so give'em a break.


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## Andy M.

I agree with most of what's been said here.  BUT...

We all need to get over this.  

The very people we are calling lazy or stupid, etc. are sitting at home wondering why idiots like us take the time to cook everything from scratch when there are perfectly good alternatives available.  They're saying that they could cook from scratch too if they had all the time in the world but THEY have to work for a living...


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## Zhizara

*Goop Glop*



PrincessFiona60 said:


> I make my own GOOP or GLOP.  Usually made when I'm cleaning out the fridge before a shopping trip.



And haven't you noticed that some of these are the most fantastic dishes and so rare because you can't really duplicate them because the ingredients are what you have left over at that particular time.

GLOP.  I love that.  Somehow it sounds tastier.


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## Zhizara

Andy M. said:


> I agree with most of what's been said here.  BUT...
> 
> We all need to get over this.
> 
> The very people we are calling lazy or stupid, etc. are sitting at home wondering why idiots like us take the time to cook everything from scratch when there are perfectly good alternatives available.  They're saying that they could cook from scratch too if they had all the time in the world but THEY have to work for a living...



Personally, I don't care so much what other people do.  The piled up carts of junk just make me cringe at the thought of spending so much money.  I pride myself on being able to make wonderful meals on less money leaving me free to buy other things.  

I feel sorry for them if they don't learn the satisfaction of making something really good, but I presume buying convenience foods leave them time for some of the other satisfactions life has to offer.

I think we can all admit this is an interesting post that evolved from "Yikes, look at the junk" to commentary on where our society is headed.


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## letscook

I blame it on schools, going up we had Home ecomnomics, where you we were taught to cook, plan a party, clean a house right down to ironing a shirt proper making beds doing laundry etc.. Handle a household buget. Preparing a shopping list and learned how to shop.  Now days a button falls off they throw it out and buy new. Pants that need to be hemmed on a women in a suit isn't - she looks nice till you get to the botom and the pants are to long - ripped and frad from her heals.  They buy frozen package stuff or bring home the Mcdonald or the burger king or have you ever driven down a street during the day of garage pick up and noticed the pizza boxes, as no one has shown them how to cook anything, half the time they can't even read a recipe.  
It is the schools cutting the budgets and they is one that they should bring back.


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## Constance

bakechef said:


> I would love to teach a cooking basics class, just to show how easy and inexpensive cooking can be if you know how to cook from scratch, instead of a bag, box or bottle.



I think this is something that should be offered, even required of, all food stamp recipients. I don't want to see anyone go hungry, but I've stood in line behind some people using food stamps, and some of them have no idea about nutrition. 
I also think food pantries should offer sheets of printed recipes using the foods they have to offer. The only cost would be the ink and the paper. I'm sure they could find someone to volunteer to make them up. 

I know, I know...I've been told I'm naive, but I still think it would be a good idea!


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## PrincessFiona60

Zhizara said:


> And haven't you noticed that some of these are the most fantastic dishes and so rare because you can't really duplicate them because the ingredients are what you have left over at that particular time.
> 
> GLOP. I love that. Somehow it sounds tastier.


 
YES!  And Shrek tells me to, "write it down next time"  There's nothing to write down...I'm not measuring it!  

I've also called it Dishrag Soup, since I'm cleaning the fridge shelves as I cook.


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## Selkie

PrincessFiona60 said:


> I've also called it Dishrag Soup...



Dishrag Soup!!!


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## Andy M.

Zhizara said:


> ...As a teenager, I tried to imitate Hamburger Helper by cooking noodles, browned hamburger and a can of whatever cream of soup we had.  Different spices for different tasting dishes and I ended up with a whole repertoire of meals.  It tasted better and was just as easy.  I had so much fun making simple stroganoff (just add some sour cream and maybe a small can of mushrooms) and the like, that I found out that cooking was creative and could be easy.  We named the recipe GOOP.  I still love to make simple one dish meals/casseroles.



As a Boy Scout, we used to cook GLOP on camping trips.  Hamburg, onion, potato, cream of mushroom soup and some peas and/or corn.  I still make it from time to time.


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## PrincessFiona60

Before Shrek retired, he worked for W@lm@rt.  Employees there are given a card (and one for their spouses) that when presented, give them 10% off their purchase.  It wasn't until just a couple of years ago that the discount applied to fresh produce.  They could buy all the junk they wanted and get 10% off, but not on fresh produce...go figure.


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## PrincessFiona60

Andy M. said:


> As a Boy Scout, we used to cook GLOP on camping trips. Hamburg, onion, potato, cream of mushroom soup and some peas and/or corn. I still make it from time to time.


 
I remember Boy Scout camp...they were across the lake from the Camp Fire camp.  Once during camp the boys would come over and cook GLOP, we were responsible for the S'mores.


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## Andy M.

PrincessFiona60 said:


> ...They could buy all the junk they wanted and get 10% off, but not on fresh produce...go figure.




The junk food probably has a higher markup on it than fresh produce.


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## PrincessFiona60

Andy M. said:


> The junk food probably has a higher markup on it than fresh produce.


 
Exactly!


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## PrincessFiona60

Andy M. said:


> The junk food probably has a higher markup on it than fresh produce.


 
Addendum:  As a high profile employer (any employer, really), they have a vested interest in the health of their employees. Most employees already spend the bulk of ther paychecks in the store and in my opinion, they (the company) could handle the hit to their bottom line and offer healthier choices to their employees, at the same discount.

I was in the store yesterday, checked out the produce dept...limp broccoli, dried out asparagus.  I walked away and spent more money at a local-owned grocery.


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## Kayelle

Hmmm, very interesting Mollyanne,  I was just formulating my post when I read yours.  Now I don't need to. 






mollyanne said:


> "He who is without sin cast the first stone". I'm uncomfortable with the pethora of judgemental comments in this thread. I can say I have never looked in other people's carts to see what they are buying. I have never looked in someone's grocery bag, read their receipt, and cast judgement on what they are buying or why they are plump. Maybe they're buying it for a invalid friend. Maybe their stove is on the blink...or maybe their kitchen is being renovated. When I go to a grocery store I'm on a mission and I'm all about me, my family, and friends. I don't pay any attention to strangers there...why would I? Am I the only one?
> 
> I know you're laughing at my seemingly naive statements...yes, the supply of processed food is there because the demand is there, but my point is that we have no business judging strangers in a grocery store. It's arrogant. No?
> 
> Furthermore, I see improvements...in America anyway (i'm not familiar with other countries). Educational materials and mass media attention have reached many. More people know about processed foods, exercise, portion control, pyramid w/dailyrequirements, when to eat, why to eat, what to eat, etc than ever before. The awareness is there. It's the other factors that are too many to mention here...will-power, stress, physical issues, and emotional issues are at the top of the list.
> 
> Maybe they just lost 100 lbs but they're having a bad day and are feeling weak for one day. Anyone here ever had a bad day?
> 
> Some people have more of those issues than others so give'em a break.



*Very* well said.  Thank you.....


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## suzyQ3

mollyanne said:


> "He who is without sin cast the first stone". I'm uncomfortable with the pethora of judgemental comments in this thread. I can say I have never looked in other people's carts to see what they are buying. I have never looked in someone's grocery bag, read their receipt, and cast judgement on what they are buying or why they are plump. Maybe they're buying it for a invalid friend. Maybe their stove is on the blink...or maybe their kitchen is being renovated. When I go to a grocery store I'm on a mission and I'm all about me, my family, and friends. I don't pay any attention to strangers there...why would I? Am I the only one?
> 
> I know you're laughing at my seemingly naive statements...yes, the supply of processed food is there because the demand is there, but my point is that we have no business judging strangers in a grocery store. It's arrogant. No?
> 
> Furthermore, I see improvements...in America anyway (i'm not familiar with other countries). Educational materials and mass media attention have reached many. More people know about processed foods, exercise, portion control, pyramid w/dailyrequirements, when to eat, why to eat, what to eat, etc than ever before. The awareness is there. It's the other factors that are too many to mention here...will-power, stress, physical issues, and emotional issues are at the top of the list.
> 
> Maybe they just lost 100 lbs but they're having a bad day and are feeling weak for one day. Anyone here ever had a bad day?
> 
> Some people have more of those issues than others so give'em a break.



You took the thoughts right out of my head and stated them better than I could have done.


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## PattY1

silentmeow said:


> I read somewhere that to have a healthy diet one must shop around the outside walls of the grocery store.  When I think of that it really makes sense, veggies...dairy.....meats!  It's the isles that get you every time!



That is mostly true. The inside isles contain Beans, Grains and our beloved Spices. For me and I suspect for most people Frozen and Canned Veggies who it is not feasible to be a slave to the grocery store. Yes it is a convenience, but I don't have the time or the inclination to grow a garden and put them up myself. I love the salt free canned veggies! I have used the tomatoes on tacos when I didn't have fresh. I could not tell the difference.It is like having fresh veggies without the time and effort. I can stock up and have my choice on hand and not have to throw something out because it will not go bad in just a few days.


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## bakechef

I just don't like the way "cooking" is going.  The art of cooking from scratch is fading.  I think that celebrity chefs help a bit, but they tend to hurt at the same time.  When trying to make a celebrity chef recipe, it can often become very expensive, and it is just cheaper to eat processed prepared food or eat out.

I have a dear friend that obviously grew up on processed foods and continues to eat them today.  She prepares food at home but it is often a combination of canned and boxed processed foods, she recently made a lasagna that was layers of beefaroni and cheese all baked together.  I applaud that she takes the time to get into the kitchen to prepare a meal, but in the long term this can't be healthy.

I take notice of people's carts because I work in a grocery store.  There seems to be a very noticeable divide between shoppers, those who do a majority of their shopping around the perimeter of the store (fresh products) and those shopping mostly the middle (mostly processed foods).

There can be an affordable balance, it is just that many haven't figured it out yet.

My mom was a busy woman, raising 5 children, she still cooked from scratch every night, mostly because we couldn't afford a lot of convenience foods.  She did it with savvy shopping and planning.


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## mollyanne

...thank you kayelle and suzyQ...but did you have to copy and paste my typo...LOL...pethora=plethora...when will I ever learn to proofread...i'm sure there are more


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## Kayelle

mollyanne said:


> ...thank you kayelle and suzyQ...but did you have to copy and paste my typo...LOL...pethora=plethora...when will I ever learn to proofread...i'm sure there are more



I just thought you were lithping again.


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## JMediger

This is not a new discussion nor do I think it will be the last one to pop up here.  It's part of what I really like about this group - the ability to express your opinion and have a discussion.  That said ...

I applaud the parents who come home, cook dinner and actually sit at the table and eat with their children.  I don't care if it's a made from scratch beef stew or if it came out of a can.  It's the act of sitting down and sharing not only food but conversation with each other that we should be focused on.

As much as DH and I love to cook (and we're pretty good I think), there are nights when we get home at 8:00 or 8:30 and frozen pizza or mac and cheese taste pretty good.  My homemade mac and cheese puts to shame the box stuff but it takes an hour versus 15 minutes.  There are also cold, rainy days when canned tomato soup and a grilled cheese hit the spot.  Like Mollyanne said before, we've all had bad days and needed a pick me up.

My father owns a grocery store so I'm privy to people's shopping tendencies but can honestly say I don't walk around looking into people's carts.  Instead, I focus on how many people are there with their children, sharing that experience and making it a family affair - whether they shop the perimeter or the isles.

The previous statement that this has turned into a commentary on our society is correct and that is what we should be focused on.  Not what people are eating together, rather the fact that more and more families are returning to the table period.


----------



## taxlady

mollyanne said:


> "He who is without sin cast the first stone". I'm uncomfortable with the pethora of judgemental comments in this thread. I can say I have never looked in other people's carts to see what they are buying. I have never looked in someone's grocery bag, read their receipt, and cast judgement on what they are buying or why they are plump. Maybe they're buying it for a invalid friend. Maybe their stove is on the blink...or maybe their kitchen is being renovated. When I go to a grocery store I'm on a mission and I'm all about me, my family, and friends. I don't pay any attention to strangers there...why would I? Am I the only one?
> 
> ...



I don't intentionally check out other people's grocery baskets, but there isn't a lot else to do while waiting in a long line up. And, I am always interested in other human beings. I start conversations with willing people. "Oh, I love that cheese." "That bread is so yummy." "I've been curious about that ________. What's it like?"


----------



## taxlady

Andy M. said:


> I agree with most of what's been said here.  BUT...
> 
> We all need to get over this.
> 
> The very people we are calling lazy or stupid, etc. are sitting at home wondering why idiots like us take the time to cook everything from scratch when there are perfectly good alternatives available.  They're saying that they could cook from scratch too if they had all the time in the world but THEY have to work for a living...



Good points.

I was a bit baffled by someone calling them lazy and writing that they don't have time to cook because they work too much


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## joesfolk

A lot of people today just don't know how to cook and aren't interested in learning.  My sister- in -law is like that.  Now she is not a lazy person.  Her house is immaculate but therein lies the problem.  Cooking means added cleaning.  A frozen lasagna comes in a disposable pan, and doesn't require much more than a paper plate.  No muss no fuss.  I guess she just feels that she has better things to do.  Oh, and by the way though she is 50ish until recently she never worked outside the home.  Still couldn't learn to cook.  go figure.


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## snickerdoodle

I love this discussion!  I think (I hope) I can still consider myself to be a young mother at 29 years old with 3 kids ages 4, 2 and 1.  I didn't grow up with much exposure to the kitchen aside from the occassional batch of chocolate chip cookies.  My grandmother on my mom's side cooked a lot from scratch... but she wasn't what I would call a great cook and I can't say I learned much from her.  So... I am self taught I guess you could say.  I have loved cooking for most of my life, just never had many opportunities until I got out on my own, and even then, did my time with ramen noodles, mac n cheese, eggs and PB&J sandwiches.  

It wasn't until I brought children into the world that I really woke up to the quality of food that is available.  I will say, it has been a challenging endeavor getting to where we're at now with the food at our house.  I quickly learned that being able to create healthier food for one's family while keeping it affordable requires a good amount of culinary know-how, which I was lacking (still am in some areas!).  

My grocery cart used to look a lot like the cart described by the OP.  I see those carts at the store every time I go shopping and, yes, I do look at what other people buy.  Having 'been there, done that' I'm not too quick to pass judgement on them.  Plus, I have my own guilty purchases I'm not proud of on a regular basis (frozen chicken nuggets/fish sticks, chips, sugary granola bars/cereals, Chef Boyardee *gag*, frozen pizzas, etc.)  But I hope that whoever is looking at my cart also sees all the other good stuff that would imply I know my way around a kitchen.  And to think I actually ENJOY cooking... it must be very difficult for someone who has no interest or dislikes cooking altogether to make that shift over to slower food.  

I think GW summed it up pretty well in his post.  As a side note, most Yoopers I know seem to have this all figured out!  We visited dh's family in the UP for the first time over the summer and I was in 7th heaven in our host's kitchen (his aunt).  I learned a lot in that week, including how to make homemade chicken noodle soup.


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## joesfolk

Snickerdoodle, I hope you got her pastie recipe!  Most self respecting Yoopers make pasties.


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## snickerdoodle

LOL, you know, I'm sure she has one... and I really pushed for a day of female comradarie in the kitchen making pasties but it didn't happen.  Love me some pasties!!  I have since collected recipes here and there but have yet to try any.  The big downer is that dh doesn't really like pasties (what?!?)... He's a 1/4 Finnish and doesn't like pasties???


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## Fabiabi

I don't think that lack of time or money should stop you from eating healthy. I just went to the fruit shop and thought how reasonably the veg was compared to frozen ready meals;  Also it's not hard to prep a bit of veg,, I often just chuck it in the oven pan with olive oil and seasoning and cook - not hard or time consuming.


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## Secundinius

Poppi G. Koullias said:


> I suppose that my working up to 70 hours a week might be seen to be excessive, but work has to be done as I own a motorbike garage and I can not afford taking on more staff. So I go home with my Sainsbury's Cumberland Pie/Fish Pie ready meal, feed my boy and feed myself. But I am a high earner, so can afford to buy high quality ready meals, and suppliment it with fresh fruit for desserts. You earns your money and you spends it likewise.
> 
> If, however, I was a stay-at-home-wife, my culinary life would be far different.
> 
> At weekends, eating is far different. Everything is cooked. One is relaxed and happy; less stressed. Boy's face is filled, dishes are consigned to the dishwasher and then I'll join my family and watch TV.
> 
> Society will always be a high paced mess. It's the sign of the times I'm afraid, and eating has often to be on the hoof.


 
 My apologies if my post was misunderstood. There's nothing wrong with a hard days work, especially if you are doing something you love. Just people near me seem to use a long work day as an excuse to not spend 30 minutes cooking. No matter how long your work day is, no matter how tired you are when you get home, it is ALWAYS worth the extra time. And sure, there are some of those "quick" meals that are better, but they come with a prettier price tag. Anything is used as an excuse to save a buck here, even if people are knowingly damaging their body. 

Food, Inc. is a great eye-opener, but I'm sure most, if not all of you here have at least heard of it.



Goodweed of the North said:


> I don't like where our civilization is going. But each of my children follow a path that will fulfill their lives, and give their children the best chance of growing up healthy, happy, and with self respect and dignity. And that's how I work to make the world a little better place, by starting a legacy of loving families who care about each other, and so take the time to try to do things to the best of their abilities for each other, and for their communities. That's my answer to our runaway civilization.
> 
> And yep, I know that my way isn't the only way. But in my opinion, it's the best way I know. Let's here it for the Slow Food Movement.
> 
> Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


 
I don't have many "fond" memories of my childhood, but a few of the more special ones were the family cooking meals together. I can only see myself doing the same for my children, when I finally have them. Spending the time with them teaching them the importance of fresh grown, home cooked meals. For the time being, I can only concentrate on making that future for my fiancee and myself so we can walk the right path... and of course, copying some of the great recipe ideas from forums like this one. 

Here's to trying many new dishes!


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## suzyQ3

"No matter how long your work day is, no matter how tired you are when you get home, it is ALWAYS worth the extra time."

I happen to be one who really does prefer a healthful, fresh home-cooked meal. But I don't agree that such a preference necessarily means that it's ALWAYS worth the extra time, regardless of work hours or level of exhaustion. 

After all, pushing yourself that way could negate the benefits of the meal itself. I'd suggest it's better to be discerning about this whole issue. If such meals are important, prepare them on the days when you feel up to it; otherwise, buy something relatively fresh and healthful. 

I don't see this urgency that some others seem to feel about doing something no matter what.


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## PrincessFiona60

suzyQ3 said:


> I happen to be one who really does prefer a healthful, fresh home-cooked meal. But I don't agree that such a preference necessarily means that it's ALWAYS worth the extra time, regardless of work hours or level of exhaustion.
> 
> After all, pushing yourself that way could negate the benefits of the meal itself. I'd suggest it's better to be discerning about this whole issue. If such meals are important, prepare them on the days when you feel up to it; otherwise, buy something relatively fresh and healthful.
> 
> I don't see this urgency that some others seem to feel about doing something no matter what.


 
When I was working 12-hour shifts, I didn't have time to cook on those days. Just getting the sleep needed to work those hours was hard to come by. Consequently, I did my cooking on my days off, cooking enough to get through my work days. Now, with 10-hour shifts (recent)...I still find the same time constraints. I do have some extra time each day, but I'm still trying to figure out how to juggle them to get the most of the time I do have.

There are other added considerations, I'm cooking two meals for each meal to accomodate DH's needs.

So, yes...time is needed to cook the way I want to


----------



## Nicholas Mosher

During the week for breakfast we eat healthy oatmeal and cereals quite a bit along with N.F.C. O.J. and homemade Mochas.  For lunch, we make salads (sometimes with bag-o varieties if pressed for time) along with a hunk of bread we purchase from a local baker Saturday mornings and keep in a ziplock.  For dinner, twice a week we make a big pot/pan of something from scratch - usually Sunday and Wednesday night.  Roasted veggies and sausage, meatballs, stew, baked beans, etc.  We each do a pot - so we each only cook once a week for dinner.

Friday night is eat-out night at a local restaurant.  Saturday we do our shopping, and tend to eat little things here and there as we shop (along with leftovers from eating out Friday night).  Sunday we have brunch (usually at home, but sometimes out), and potluck/BBQ dinner with friends/family - except when I'm buried in work.

So really we each only cook once or twice a week (I don't consider pouring a bowl of cereal or chopping a head of lettuce "cooking").

That said, we do have our faults.  Twice a week I go directly from work (nights) to my University, and don't have time to stop home for my breakfast or lunch.  I tend to skip breakfast, and then eat a lunch much to large at school in the form of a 12,000 calorie salad (taco/buffalo), or 15,000 calorie bowl of noodles with vegetables, tofu, and Sriracha.  On these days my wife tends to buy lunch at work, which is sometimes less than healthy.


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## Poppi G. Koullias

Secundinius said:


> My apologies if my post was misunderstood. There's nothing wrong with a hard days work, especially if you are doing something you love. Just people near me seem to use a long work day as an excuse to not spend 30 minutes cooking. No matter how long your work day is, no matter how tired you are when you get home, it is ALWAYS worth the extra time. And sure, there are some of those "quick" meals that are better, but they come with a prettier price tag. Anything is used as an excuse to save a buck here, even if people are knowingly damaging their body.
> 
> Food, Inc. is a great eye-opener, but I'm sure most, if not all of you here have at least heard of it.



Hey, that’s very kind of you to write back to me. No, I didn’t misunderstand your post. More really my looking quite seriously at the path I was heading on. Because after a long day’s work during which time my boy was being nannyed, I was losing touch with what true family commitment really meant.

Since my last post on this thread, I’ve stopped working the hours, and this was thanks to my partner getting onto me, quite rightly, that I’d become grumpy and quick to fly off the handle at any little thing. And being borderline alcoholic, there was always that terrible temptation to hit the bottle again. Believe me, having now cut back my hours to just 30 a week has made a huge difference!

Also, I was intending leaving England to return home to Kalymnos, but the financial climate of my country has brutally ruined businesses, so I have no hope of going back except to Mummy’s house on holiday.

 I haven’t heard of Food, Inc. But I’ll have a look sometime.

Just want to thank you very much for writing back. Although a newbie, I’m find it tough here.

Poppi Georgina


----------



## PattY1

Fabiabi said:


> I don't think that lack of time or money should stop you from eating healthy. I just went to the fruit shop and thought how reasonably the veg was compared to frozen ready meals;  Also it's not hard to prep a bit of veg,, I often just chuck it in the oven pan with olive oil and seasoning and cook - not hard or time consuming.



Maybe true. But........these things are expensive.


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## Caslon

Is this thread about knocking premade dinners like Stouffers and the like?
They are getting healthier every year.

If I'm tired and don't feel like boiling pasta to make spaghetti and meat sauce.
Stouffers to the rescue.

If I have to have a premade dinner, I will try to round it out with everything else being fresh. At least some heated up garlic bread and a fresh salad and rolls.

Same thing goes with Swedish meatballs and noodles.  I'll cook some green peas with it along with a fresh salad and rolls.


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## Secundinius

mollyanne said:


> "He who is without sin cast the first stone". I'm uncomfortable with the pethora of judgemental comments in this thread. I can say I have never looked in other people's carts to see what they are buying. I have never looked in someone's grocery bag, read their receipt, and cast judgement on what they are buying or why they are plump. Maybe they're buying it for a invalid friend. Maybe their stove is on the blink...or maybe their kitchen is being renovated. When I go to a grocery store I'm on a mission and I'm all about me, my family, and friends. I don't pay any attention to strangers there...why would I? Am I the only one?
> 
> I know you're laughing at my seemingly naive statements...yes, the supply of processed food is there because the demand is there, but my point is that we have no business judging strangers in a grocery store. It's arrogant. No?
> 
> Furthermore, I see improvements...in America anyway (i'm not familiar with other countries). Educational materials and mass media attention have reached many. More people know about processed foods, exercise, portion control, pyramid w/dailyrequirements, when to eat, why to eat, what to eat, etc than ever before. The awareness is there. It's the other factors that are too many to mention here...will-power, stress, physical issues, and emotional issues are at the top of the list.
> 
> Maybe they just lost 100 lbs but they're having a bad day and are feeling weak for one day. Anyone here ever had a bad day?
> 
> Some people have more of those issues than others so give'em a break.


 
You make an excellent point here, Mollyanne. And although I do agree with you, for the most part, I do have to disagree a little. 

The information is out there, sure and some people are paying attention, but overall, the obesity rate isn't going down. Obesity is still rising. Mainly due to the low cost of crap food compared to the price of good food. Why buy healthy food for one meal when you can get three meals of crap food for the same price? 

I've always admitted I am just as guilty, the difference is, I do something to keep myself, somewhat, regulated. I went from 150 pounds 5 years ago to 210 (which I reached about a year ago) while my fiancee gained around 10 pounds in the same time. But her weight gain, admittedly, is from trying to keep pace with me when we go out to eat. My doctor says I should get down to 165, but there is no way I will hit that weight without losing muscle mass. I continue to go to the gym and eat better foods, though sometimes in larger portions then I should, but I've been increasingly better about this.

Problems with it are simple. When you get to park in the handicap spaces because you are overweight (they actually call it a disease these days) and you ride around in a power cart while doing your shopping, there is a problem. We didn't evolve to eat all day. We evolved in a time of limited food sources and actually having to hunt down our food or go gather it. Our body, as I'm sure most here already know, is built to store food (energy in the form of fat) so eating the way we do, coupled with less exercise (travel to hunt/gather) equals fat people. 

Should I pass judgement on these people? No, but seeing them in my job constantly (formerly worked in an OR and currently work in a rehability facility) and hearing them complain about not being about to walk around on their own, but then they order all the extra crap with their meals (which IMO should be better regulated by the dietary staff) and do nothing but lie in bed when they are done with their therapy, doesn't earn any of them any slack. Sure, I know a few people who have real medical issues that cause them to have an extremely rough time with their weight, but that is not the norm. 

Sure, everyone has bad days. I've had days where I don't eat and I've had days where McD's makes up every meal I have. Bad days don't make you fat. Bad EVERYday does. Besides, it is hard not to notice the 400 pound lady on the cart with $250 worth of frozen meals, soda and potato chips on line in front of you. And I highly doubt that just because someone doesn't open up and post or actually say out loud what they are thinking, that every other person that sees that has a similar thought. 

More work still needs to be done to educate people on the effects of these types of foods and something needs to be done about the prices. It's really difficult to buy the good food when the crap food is so much cheaper for so much more.


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## spork

Terrific thread, everyone!  Worth the time to read from page 1.  I could've gone the fast food route and just read/replied to the last page's post, as we admittedly sometimes do, but the payoff to doing something, like discovering cooking or discussing life, slowly, is context.  I like to cook for my family because, to me, it gives our repast a deeper meaning.

I've never had much of an opinion about people's shopping carts containing processed or junk food.  It's relative, after all.  The guy at the front of the grocery check-out line has a take-away box of penne from the deli, the gal behind him has a frozen microwave dinner box of spaghetti and meatballs, the woman behind her has a can of Chef Boyardee, I'm behind her with a bag of dried pasta, the man behind me has a bag of flour and eggs, and there's a man behind him pushing five shopping carts full of golden wheat stalks and carrying a live chicken under his arm.  Well, okay, ya, sometimes I do notice what people have in their shopping carts, but mostly that's because I enjoy striking up friendly conversations with strangers at grocery stores.


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## lyndalou

I have a hard time with anyone calling people "slobs" in this forum. I agree that we should be a lot less judgmental and worry about what's in our own carts.


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## PrincessFiona60

lyndalou said:


> I have a hard time with anyone calling people "slobs" in this forum. I agree that we should be a lot less judgmental and worry about what's in our own carts.


 
Thank you!


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## Hammster

lyndalou said:


> I have a hard time with anyone calling people "slobs" in this forum. I agree that we should be a lot less judgmental and worry about what's in our own carts.


 


PrincessFiona60 said:


> Thank you!


 
I second Fiona's thanks for Lyndalou's comment.


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## Zhizara

Me too!  I was upset by the way the thread was worded and thought to myself why get upset by what's  in someone else's cart.  As Dear Abby would say, MYOB.


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## Poppi G. Koullias

Caslon said:


> Is this thread about knocking premade dinners like Stouffers and the like?
> They are getting healthier every year.
> 
> If I'm tired and don't feel like boiling pasta to make spaghetti and meat sauce.
> Stouffers to the rescue.
> 
> If I have to have a premade dinner, I will try to round it out with everything else being fresh. At least some heated up garlic bread and a fresh salad and rolls.



Premade dinners are healthier in our British supermarkets, but I have to pay a premium for them. I don't do "budget" that have no real nutritional vlaue.

Like you, if I'm tired and don't feel like cooking, then I'll slam one of those into my oven or, nuke it. I can't do garlic bread unless the butter is minimum, and the bread has to be wholemeal brown, not white. It's because I'm diabetic.

Yes, premades save busy stressed people from the drudge of having to cook when they get home tired and shattered. But we are not "slobs" as the OP first wrote. Far from it.

I'm not interested in what other have in their trollies. because at the end of long day I want to select the premades off the shelves, scrurry to the checkout, pay, get in my Jag and go home.


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## 4meandthem

I wasn't going to comment either but I agree with the MYOB unless asked.I really don't know the person's situation.I may not care either but I try not to judge.

Poppi-It sounds like England has some sort of ranking system for their pre-made meals.Is this true? Sounds like a good idea.


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## bakechef

prepared food manufacturers have worked really hard at making people feel better about feeding their families their processed foods, just look at the commercials, they are very heartwarming.

Just about everyone has times where a frozen dinner comes in handy and they take the easy route, and nothing is wrong with that in my book.  Then there are some who eat a constant diet of this stuff, and that can't be good.  

I think people are waking up, slowly but surely, and maybe over time these products will become healthier and better quality.


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## Kathleen

First, a huge thank you to those who opposed the judgmental portion of this thread.  That being said, it is an interesting discussion, but I think several things are being overlooked.

For starters, no one knows what or why people buy what they do, but it is not simply food choices that cause obesity.  When I was a child, we had home-cooking by Mom and the treat was McD's once a month.  In those days, keeping weight ON was the issue.  Mind you, we were outside and active all of the time.  My parents gardened, took walks, played outdoor games with us, etc.  We went hiking, camping, fishing as a family.  In the summer time, I would wake, make a sandwich and go to the pool.  I was there when it opened and left when it closed.  I bicycled everywhere (without a helmet.)  

Today, many children are heavily scheduled from the time they wake until they sleep.  I work with kids who have zero time to be kids.  When they have free time, they don't know how to play.  Make a fort from blankets?  No, play X-box.  Bicycle?  Only if mom and dad get their bikes out and they have comfortable helmets AND they do not ride in a street or anywhere out of sight from home.  We now have a media campaign trying to encourage parents and children to get in 90 minutes of "active" play a day.  To me, that is so disheartening.  I am sad to say that I put on the freshman 15 pounds earlier than my friends when I learned that pushing a car pedal was easier than a bike pedal.  

Growing up, my mother stayed home and my dad was home by 4 PM.  I feel like a convict who just got paroled just before the warden was going to pull the switch if I leave my job by 4 PM.  Sixteen hour days are not uncommon for me and unfortunately it is the price of my job.  (And I love my job even if I would not wish it on anyone.)  I have found among my peers that 12 to 16 hour days are not uncommon.  By the time I get home, I'm starving.  In this, I am lucky to have someone who enjoys cooking as much as I do.  

Between the two of us, we eat fairly healthy food.  However, that being said, we both like to cook - as does everyone who is likely posting on this board.  We have to remember that not everyone enjoys cooking.  Heck, I know people who do not especially enjoy eating and consider fine dining when you soil a plate after cranking open a can of Chef-Boy-R-Dee Ravioli.  (The fine-dining part according to this crowd is that they use a washable plate.)  My favorite offender of this is a woman who is so into sports that she will eat whatever she can on her way to the tennis courts or what-have you and looks the very picture of health.  She keeps herself ridiculously busy.  Once when I joined her for lunch, her pantry contained gatorade, twinkies, and protein bars, and she whined about the time it took to go to Subway for a sandwich.  

This thread started with the assumption of ignorance and laziness, but really there are multiple issues: Healthy eating, obesity, and exercise to name but a few.  We also need to consider finances, genetics, lifestyle, medical abilities, etc.  Everyone has 24 hours in a day and we all have obligations we have to meet. For most of us on this board, good cooking is a passion.  I am fortunate that is true for me but, with my schedule, if I hated cooking, Twinkies and Diet Coke would be frequently in my shopping cart along with Chef Boy-R-Dee.....and I'd likely eat it straight from the can to keep from having clean up.

~Kathleen


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## Poppi G. Koullias

4meandthem said:


> Poppi-It sounds like England has some sort of ranking system for their pre-made meals.Is this true? Sounds like a good idea.



No, sadly not. There's just a big aisle with the words "Ready meals" emblazoned above and all the way down one side are budget types, then medium-priced meals, then the more expensive. For example, Sainsbury's have a trade name called "Taste the Difference", whereas Tesco has "Tesco Finest" - all brands. I don't do Tesco. The staff there are rude. Sainsbury's premades for me, although Waitrose, a sub of the John Lewis Group have similar ready meals, but the latter is very high quality with plenty of good meat. And certainly not the size of a cat's portion that, only 4 years ago, became the laughing stock of Britain's supermarket own-brands.

The big supermarket chains have cleaned up their act. Public demand - and past derision - have made demands and the supermarkets cottoned on and brought out a fantastic, ever-changing brand of these meals to satisfy even me.

This weekend's food is far different for ready meals, premades etc. In our oven is a massive joint of forerib of beef. What Georgie boy laughingly calls "Fred Flintsone". It has to be massive, this forerib. He eats like a horse. Typical strapping lad who could wuite easily demolish 5 ready meals in succession. Oh, and I've just remembered that soon he'll 14. George will eat us out house and home at this rate!


----------



## Hammster

I think this thread started out somewhat good intentioned, but OP's use of the word "slob" really was uncalled for. Also, the assumption that anyone cooks from scratch these days is just a bit naive.
I was astonished to see the word slob used based on what was seen in a shopping cart. How can you form that opinion based on what is in a cart?
As far as cooking from scratch goes, do you have a bag of flour in your pantry, or a can of tomato product in your cupboard, a gallon of milk in your fridge? Those are also convenience items as are many more that could be mentioned. I'm fairly certain no one on this board grows their own wheat to mill into flour.
And I'm willing to bet OP has some sort of frozen food item in the freezer. Maybe not a TV dinner, but something.
Slob....really?


----------



## Zhizara

I agree that it was the word "slob" that got to me too.  It did turn out into an interesting discussion; however, it points out the need to review our posts before saving.  The written word can easily be misunderstood.


----------



## bakechef

Poppi G. Koullias said:


> No, sadly not. There's just a big aisle with the words "Ready meals" emblazoned above and all the way down one side are budget types, then medium-priced meals, then the more expensive. For example, Sainsbury's have a trade name called "Taste the Difference", whereas Tesco has "Tesco Finest" - all brands. I don't do Tesco. The staff there are rude. Sainsbury's premades for me, although Waitrose, a sub of the John Lewis Group have similar ready meals, but the latter is very high quality with plenty of good meat. And certainly not the size of a cat's portion that, only 4 years ago, became the laughing stock of Britain's supermarket own-brands.
> 
> The big supermarket chains have cleaned up their act. Public demand - and past derision - have made demands and the supermarkets cottoned on and brought out a fantastic, ever-changing brand of these meals to satisfy even me.
> 
> This weekend's food is far different for ready meals, premades etc. In our oven is a massive joint of forerib of beef. What Georgie boy laughingly calls "Fred Flintsone". It has to be massive, this forerib. He eats like a horse. Typical strapping lad who could wuite easily demolish 5 ready meals in succession. Oh, and I've just remembered that soon he'll 14. George will eat us out house and home at this rate!



We have similar offerings here.  You will find lower to medium quality meals in the frozen food section, and often the higher quality items are in the deli in a section for meal solutions, these are usually much better with real recognizable meat and veg in them.  They are almost always sold "fresh" never frozen.


----------



## spork

Zhizara said:


> I agree that it was the word "slob" that got to me too.  It did turn out into an interesting discussion; however, it points out the need to review our posts before saving.  The written word can easily be misunderstood.



Same here.  The word turned me off, and *Fish's* post was a bit of a rant, so I passed over this thread for a couple days until I noticed that it stayed up on my DC homepage.

One thing I try to keep in mind is that DC's posters span the world and represent many cultures.  It's possible that the word "slob" does not have quite the insult in England as it does in the U.S.  So, I try to give all contributors to DC, any given post, the benefit of doubt, and try to remember that some cultures and some people's personal preferences equate "fat" with "beauty."

I haven't met any, but I suppose there are also "Supermarket Snobs" roaming the aisles, too.


----------



## Zhizara

"I haven't met any, but I suppose there are also "Supermarket Snobs" roaming the aisles, too."

You read my mind.

You do have a good point about other cultures.  We do need to remember that.

The word "slob" is such a nasty word, but it also bothered me in that I think of a slob as a messy or dirty person, and that has nothing to do with shopping.


----------



## Hammster

However, I'm pretty sure in this case that slob isn't a term of endearment or a compliment so it's still hard to fathom how that opinion could be formed based on what is in a person's shopping cart.


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## Poppi G. Koullias

bakechef said:


> We have similar offerings here.  You will find lower to medium quality meals in the frozen food section, and often the higher quality items are in the deli in a section for meal solutions, these are usually much better with real recognizable meat and veg in them.  They are almost always sold "fresh" never frozen.



Yes, never frozen here.

Interesting, but in my country there are no ready meals at all. Our supermarkets are either small, privately owned and humble, or large but not like the French hypermarkets that resemble aircraft hangars. And what those must be like at Christmas time isn't worth thinking about! But in ours, all food is fresh: meat, dairy though lots of frozen fish and lamb. We Greeks only have fresh lamb at around Easter time.


----------



## roadfix

The title made this thread interesting.  Although I didn't like the word the title had a good catch phrase.  I can guarantee you that this thread would have never grown multiple pages as it did if not for the word slob.


----------



## Claire

Well, I have to say that I can see the attraction to pre-made meals.  Believe it or not, if  you are cooking small amounts, these can be less expensive than cooking "from scratch."  Going through my own, small town grocery store, I'm astonished that some products are packaged in such a way that my husband and I, big lovers and eaters of food, AND loving to cook, could not possibly eat the whole before it goes bad.  I'm always hearing that the American household is getting smaller (and in my own life I see it to be true; many, if not all, of my friends' households are 1-3 people.  Yet I look in the store and find that some products are packaged in such a way that if you don't have a large freezer or huge pantry, a small household will not be able to finish it before it goes bad.  And, I might add, a package that would feed a family of 8 often costs less than the same item packaged for one or two people.  SO .... some of us just don't like throwing away food.

Another thing about the packaged goods is that they come with the nutritional information posted.  For people on specialized diets, this is a Godsend.  I have to watch carb counts for my husband.  A slice of bread is not necessarily a slice of bread.  We pretty much have pasta and rice down pat, and most veggies (Mom already raised me to consider peas and corn to be starches rather than vegetables).  But I can see where if you lived alone a frozen dinner that had the right nutritional chart might be one heck of a lot easier than cooking from scratch.  

The packing of junk food is a real case in point.  I've had a taste for coconut lately, and wanted the old-fashioned cookies.  I looked for months to no avail, but found some.  Now, what I'd really have liked was a couple of cookies.  Now I'm munching on the other half of the smallest package of them I could find.  I'd have been perfectly happy with two of them!  Ditto chips.  Sometimes I want to make a small batch of nachos for hubby and me.  I cannot buy plain yellow corn tortillas is smaller than a bag large enough to feed my entire block!  

So these small, prepared meals can look awfully tempting.


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## AnnaBailey

I think part of the problem with this issue is that there are so many factors that go into people loading up their carts with junk.  Yes, there are absolutely the people who are lazy ad just eat junk and wonder why they are unhealthy.  And there are some people like me who sometimes go to the grocery store for a special occasion and end up with a car loaded with junk because I already have all the regular food at home.

I just recently finished putting my hubby through school so that he could earn enough for me to be a stay-home mom.  During the time he was in school, we ate a lot of boxed and convenience food.  Multiple reasons, really, but the truth is I got home at 7:30, he had to feed the kids earlier, so he'd cook them mac & cheese.  I'd cook sometimes on the weekends but I was so overwhelmed with being gone all day and then coming home to housework that I wasn't consistent at it.

The truth is, the LIFESTYLE was really to blame.  Now, for us, it was temporary.  And please don't misunderstand me, I am not knocking people who want to have a two income lifestyle, but in our case, it was simply that both my husband and I are mostly productive in the morning and so by the time evening rolls around, we are done.

When he got his new job, we moved to a new home in the country, I became a stay-home mom and almost immediately our quality of life improved significantly.  I'm sure some people are better at maintaining a nice home with quality food and working at the same time, but for us, we were barely hanging on.  Now we eat quality food made from scratch, our bread is homemade, laundry is done, etc.  

All this to say - I think we need to look at outside factors.  The truth is YES I did have time to cook from scratch while I was working but I did not have the mental energy to do it.  I could have forced myself to do it, even to spend all Sunday cooking for the week, but then again, the weekends were spent running errands, grocery shopping, cleaning, doing laundry, etc.  In order to maintain my mental sanity I had to have SOME time to myself. 

So in my opinion, the real issue is that people are not leading a lifestyle that is conducive to cooking from scratch.  I completely 100% believe in "slow food" but our lifestyles are not always compatible with that.  Our society places priority on the wrong things... there's something wrong when people are driving expensive cars and putting their kids in expensive daycares but are so hurried and rushed that they eat frozen meals in front of the TV, or even the people who are perpetually living off the state and buying junk with foodstamps because it's what they think they can afford, or they just don't want to take the energy to cook.

Keeping in mind of course I am totally generalizing here, because we all know there are lots of people like that.  I'm not saying everyone on food stamps is lazy, etc... I'd be calling myself lazy since state assistance with food and daycare is the only way I was able to afford to put hubby through school in a timely manner.  But are we really prioritizing the right things here?  

I hope I'm being coherent here, I tend to kind of go all over the place.  I guess what I am saying is that it isn't so much that people don't know how to cook from scratch or the education isn't out there, but they don't care or they don't think it's important, it's just not a priority to them.


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## PrincessFiona60

Well said!


----------



## Dumpandstir

Lots of people just don't know how to cook.  Somewhere down the line people failed to teach their children life skills.  I know I was one.  


I have 7 kids and I work.  My wife is a stay at home mother, yet she also never learned a thing from her parents about cooking.  I love to cook and I decided to take it to another level and attend culinary school.  I learned a lot and I use it everyday.  I hope I can pass my knowledge to my kids.  Cooking from scratch allows me to feed a family of 9 on $500 month.  We eat good.  

If you don't make delicious meals that kids will eat your effort is wasted.  If you raise kids to enjoy boxed crappy meals then that is also a waste.  Yeah I have picky kids but for the most part they enjoy complex tastes and meals.  I know people who only feed their kids chicken nuggets and hotdogs because that is all the kids will eat.  

It is lots of fun to raise kids to be adventurous in their tastes.


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## buckytom

i guess i'm a little different. i *love* to look into other people carts to see what food they are buying, from slobs to snobs!

i wonder what they might make with what they're buying, and as far as the processed foods go, i wonder if what they have is any good?

not surprisingly, i get into conversations fairly often on the checkout line about how someone might plan to cook something. older women always seem surprised that i know a thing or two about cooking, and it's fun to compare recipes and what not. i've even heard of good recipes using processed foods, like a lazy man's lasagna using store bought ravioli, pre-cooked sausage, and shredded mozarella cheese to form the layers.

so, like moll suggested, only those without sin (nor cheez-whiz) may cast the first stone.

which reminds me of the quote from when jesus stepped in front of the maddened crowd to stop the stoning of a harlot. 

suddenly, a rock came sailing over from the back of the crowd and struck the woman square between her eyes.

jesus turned, and said, "mom, would you quit following me around to my gigs..."


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## PrincessFiona60

I had a nice encounter today with someone who had a cart full of frozen dinners.  They were just for her, no other family and she is an EMT, she is on call at all hours and any day of the week.  Rarely does she have a whole, planned day off to herself.

By the time we reached the checkstand we had traded phone numbers and have plans on meeting for coffee.  Then we both had fun teasing the cashier, one we both know, and we had a good laugh.  The cashier thanked us for making the last 20 minutes at the register fun, then she went on break!


----------



## mollyanne

^buckytom.....


----------



## Bolas De Fraile

buckytom said:


> which reminds me of the quote from when jesus stepped in front of the maddened crowd to stop the stoning of a harlot.
> 
> suddenly, a rock came sailing over from the back of the crowd and struck the woman square between her eyes.
> 
> jesus turned, and said, "mom, would you quit following me around to my gigs..."


 Tom mate if you have not seen it, check out the stoning scene from Monty Pythons the Life of Brian.
One of the biggest mistakes made in the UK years ago was to stop practical Home Economics lessons because of cost, we as a nation have been paying the price for this short sighted stupidity for two generations.
I do not wish for this to sound like America Bashing, I remember when I was a child seeing an advert for the latest thing from the US, TV dinners we asked Mum to get them, she said the day we do not sit down as a family at the table for any meal will only happen at her funeral, we gave her a hard time about it, thankfully she stood firm.
I love to have a table full of friends with their kids, it is the epitome of life to me, kids will always behave at my table, not out of fear(that is for their parents) it is because I include them in the fun, I want to hear what they have to say.


----------



## cooltouch

When I first saw this thread, I didn't want to read through it, but then I told myself to butch up, so I did.  And I guess I'm glad I did because I figure I have a few things to contribute.

For starters -- about the premade "crap" available in stores -- well, some is, no question, but some isn't.  Just because it's been premade that doesn't mean it's crap.  One does not necessarily follow the other.  Until quite recently, my wife worked in the service deli at Costco for six years.  Most of the food they prepare in the deli, they make from base ingredients.  And they monitor the expiration times and dates constantly.  Did you know that the rotisserie chickens at Costco are removed if they haven't been sold within two hours?  Once removed, the breast meat is harvested for use in other dishes they make and the remainder of the chicken goes into bins that's picked up by food recyclers who use it for who knows what.  The items they prepare in the deli are extremely popular, so not a lot of it gets thrown out because of passing an expiration date (or time).  People buy it on their way home from work, knowing that all they have to do is pop it into the oven when they get home, and they've got a well-made meal to serve their family.  While she was in the deli, my wife took a lot of pride in producing an excellent product.

But there's a lot of other stuff that's so heavily processed that one can barely call it food anymore.  And I won't eat it or serve it to my family.  Well, okay, I'll break down about once a month or so and make a box of hamburger helper for my daughter (she loves the stuff), but that's about it.

I too grew up in the era when TV dinners were first introduced and I can recall being fascinated by the idea as a kid and my mother's skepticism if not revulsion over the idea.  But I think she decided the best way to nip things in the bud was to _buy_ some and serve them for dinner instead of a real home cooked meal.  Heh!  That worked!  Our curiosity satisfied (but not our stomachs), we didn't ask for them much after that.  I still remember this tasteless oval gray mass swimming in a pool of brown goo and asking my mom what it was.  She told me it was what I'd asked for -- Salisbury Steak.  Huh.  I was baffled at how something with such an appetizing name could be so awful in person.

I can sympathize with single persons or couples, and how it seems the markets conspire against them: they make you overbuy products to get good prices or trap you into paying higher prices when you buy in smaller quantities.  But there's a simple solution to this -- more than one actually -- but the simplest is this: get used to eating leftovers.  And if you can't stand the leftovers anymore, freeze them before they go off, so you can have them again in a month or two when you're not so burned out on them anymore.  We have a family of three and our daughter has a pretty small apetite, so it's more like two and a half.  But when we cook, we tend to cook large meals.  Because that's where the price breaks are.  And then we just have leftovers for a while, or we freeze the leftovers.

But for me there's another big factor that was also mentioned here and that is food costs.  Our family food budget has gotten stretched really tight over the past couple of years, and -- I dunno about where you live -- but in almost all instances I can think of, buying prepared foods is _always_ more expensive than preparing a meal from base ingredients.  So as a result almost every meal we prepare is cooked from scratch.  And I expect that even if our budget wasn't so tight we'd still cook pretty much the same way.  And this is because of the way both my wife and I were brought up.  She's a chef, so she's used to preparing meals from scratch and, me, well I do my best.  Plus, we've both learned from trial and error that, not only does the preprocessed stuff usually cost more than its scratch prepared equivalent, but it doesn't taste as good anyway.

Speaking of the advantage of having nutritional information on the box or package of a processed item, well this info can have the opposite result as well.  If you are on a reduced fat, reduced sodium, and low carb diet like I am, then what you will find is that most of the stuff whose labels you examine get put right back on the shelf.  So I too am glad of the nutritional information labels.  Especially when it comes to keeping track of my carb intake.

Next time you walk into a supermarket, take a moment before you enter any aisle and just let your eyes scan the market from one end to the other.  This works best if you are familiar with the market.  Then see if you can estimate the percentage of carbohydrates that the market is made up of.  You might be surprised at the figure.  I typically come up with 70% to 80%.  And most of these carbs are combined with fat in various forms and put into processed foods.  The worst possible combination of foods I can imagine is carbs and fats.  But oh do they taste so good together.  Krispy Kreme donuts.  Flaky pie pastry.  pancakes with butter and syrup, baked potatoes with everything on them.  You get the idea.  So is it any wonder why it is that here in the US we have such an obesity problem?  If we Americans would go back to preparing and eating foods the way our parents and grandparents did (but perhaps with a better eye toward fat intake), and if we would kick our kids outside to play sports (the way my mom used to do with us) instead of allowing them to sit around and play computer games all day and night, maybe we wouldn't be having such problems.

Lastly, I don't think it's fair to characterize people as being greedy or obsessed in their pursuit of the almighty dollar, and that this is the reason for their cutting corners. Sure, some do, but I believe it's much more complex than that.  One might argue that we are victims of incipient commercialism and being obsessed with keeping up with the Joneses, but I think that's not nearly a complete picture either.  I think that most families now don't have any choice but to have two (or more) wage earners just to stay afloat.  They're being taxed out of existence, squeezed by inflation, and first seduced then hammered by debt.  So with this sort of financial pressure it's difficult to have one of the parents stay at home.  We're luckier than most, I suppose because I'm usually home.  But it's a two-edged sword because I work out of my home, and if I'm having to do domestic chores, like cooking scratch meals, then I'm not getting work done.  But at least I don't have a commute, so that saves us some time (and $$$) there.  Plus I can choose my hours so seldom do I knock off at 5 pm.


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## Zhizara

I agree with your well written post.  I'm retired, and like to cook, but a bad back makes standing for long periods uncomfortable.  I don't feel guilty about using some mixes.  Seasoning mixes like taco seasoning is great because of the consistency of flavor.  Jiffy cornbread mix is great because it's pre-mixed and no mess.  Stuffing mix is great for casseroles.  I still make stuffing sometimes, but it's a messy, long process.

I also figure that other people's carts are kind of private and I don't need to be nosy or judgmental about their purchases.


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## Kathleen

I don't know whether I first saw this link here at DC or not, but this is an excellent article about this very topic.  

Newsweek - Divided We Eat

In a nutshell, the article states that people eat what they can afford to eat based on the time they have, and food is the new class-defining item.  

~Kathleen


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## cooltouch

Thanks for the link Kathleen.  After reading the article it made me glad not to be living in NYC -- no offense to you NYC folks, but it's just not for me.  I'm new here, so none of you know me, thus I think it's probably important that I state this right at the outset: I am _not_ a politcally correct kind of guy.  I detest the entire PC movement, and this article fairly drips with PC-ness.

I've snipped a few quotes from the article.

_"But modern America is a place of extremes, and what you eat for dinner has become the definitive marker of social status; as the distance between rich and poor continues to grow, the freshest, most nutritious foods have become luxury goods that only some can afford."
_ 
This is BS.  At least here in Houston it is.  The food distribution system here is, I guess, a lot different than it is in NYC.  Within a five-mile radius of my house there are ten supermarkets that I can easily recall (incuding a Whole Foods) and many smaller specialty markets.  Probably mostly because of the competition, these stores are forced to provide fresh food at reasonable prices.  In any of them, I can walk in and buy a variety of fresh produce, meats, and seafood.  As to their affordability, well, this varies with the markets.  I live in a dichotomous part of Houston.  There are folks on public assistance -- immigrant latinos mostly -- who live in apartments and housing just blocks away from neighborhoods where homes were selling for north of $1 million before the housing bubble burst.  And in this area there are grocery stores that cater to the different segments of the population, so prices can vary widely with some items.  For example, I can go to a local Kroger Signature store, which is very nicely appointed on the inside, and pay twice as much for onions as I would if I drove a couple miles farther down the same street and shopped at the local Fiesta that caters to the large immigrant population.  A short drive in the opposite direction and I can pay twice as much for those onions by shopping at the Whole Foods.  "Yes, but the Whole Foods onions are a much higher quality," some might say, and I'd say, "Prove it.  I'm buying the cheap ones until you can justify the price difference."

_"Whole Foods—the upscale grocery chain that recently reported a 58 percent increase in its quarterly profits . . . "
_ 
No surprises there -- not at their prices.  If they buy their goods from the same sources as the other local markets, it's no wonder their profit margins are greater.

_"Lower-income families don’t subsist on junk food and fast food because they lack nutritional education, as some have argued. And though many poor neighborhoods are, indeed, food deserts—meaning that the people who live there don’t have access to a well-stocked supermarket—many are not. Lower-income families choose sugary, fat, and processed foods because they’re cheaper—and because they taste good."
_
Elitist, and untrue.  At least around these parts, it is.  As for the first statement, I believe just the opposite is true.  The biggest reason for lower-income families' poor diets is, I feel sure, their being sucked into mass media advertizing and believing all the crap being spewed out of the tube about processed foods.  If anything they are overly suggestible which I would argue is directly attributable to a lower education level where they were never taught to think cricitally. As I stated in my earllier post, around these parts at least, it is _always_ cheaper to cook from base ingredients than to go the pre-packaged food route.  And for the base ingredients there are a few supermarkets in my area that cater specifically to the lower income segment.  In the Fiesta I mentioned above, their produce department is as good as any of the more expensive markets, with the possible exception of Whole Foods -- but then they wouldn't be carrying a lot of the stuff WF does anyway because the demographic that shops there doesn't eat the stuff WF sells.  But by the same token, they sell fresh produce that WF doesn't.  Like cactus leaves, and a very wide variety of peppers, for example.

True, you're not gonna see much in the way of beef filet or porterhouse steaks at the Fiesta, but who's to say that those cuts are more nutritious than a cheaper (and leaner) cut of beef, like top sirloin or round steak?  They may not have any organically raised beef or free-range chicken, and the reason is simple -- their clientele wouldn't buy it if they did.  Any sort of claim that these more expensive types of meat are more nutritious is dubious to me.  I'm not buying it (literally and figuratively).

_"In a paper published last spring, Drewnowski showed how the prices of specific foods changed between 2004 and 2008 based on data from Seattle-area supermarkets. While food prices overall rose about 25 percent, the most nutritious foods (red peppers, raw oysters, spinach, mustard greens, romaine lettuce) rose 29 percent, while the least nutritious foods (white sugar, hard candy, jelly beans, and cola) rose just 16 percent."
_
Man, I can shoot this so full of wholes, I wonder why I should even bother.  This is junk journalism at its worst.  The "nutritious" foods covers a range of items from shellfish to produce, while the junk food items are all sugar based.  So if sugar has withstood the inflationary trend of that 4-year period better than the produce and shellfish, then one would expect the prices for sugar-based products to be lower.  There are economies of scale involved as well.  White sugar is a raw commodity, shipped by the trainload, for pete's sake.  Raw oysters involve a fairly intense amount of labor, and fuel costs (for both the boat and trucks that brought it to market) are going to be a significantly higher portion of the costs than shipping sugar by train.  What I consider most alarming about the study this Drewnowski person conducted is the fact that there was a 25% increase in food costs!  Then again, maybe not.  Seems like, if anything,  25% is on the low side.

Yes, the woman who wrote that article is a food elitist.  And that's fine with me.  If it makes here feel better, then she should go for it.  But to draw a conclusion that people who don't spend the kind of money she does on food and eat the way she does are somehow nutritionally worse off is just simple nonsense.


----------



## suzyQ3

KathleenA said:


> I don't know whether I first saw this link here at DC or not, but this is an excellent article about this very topic.
> 
> Newsweek - Divided We Eat
> 
> In a nutshell, the article states that people eat what they can afford to eat based on the time they have, and food is the new class-defining item.
> 
> ~Kathleen



Thanks for the link. It's a very interesting and well-written piece.


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## babetoo

cooltouch, i agree with you. we need some sense in the prices of healthy food.


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## bakechef

cooltouch said:


> Thanks for the link Kathleen.  After reading the article it made me glad not to be living in NYC -- no offense to you NYC folks, but it's just not for me.  I'm new here, so none of you know me, thus I think it's probably important that I state this right at the outset: I am _not_ a politcally correct kind of guy.  I detest the entire PC movement, and this article fairly drips with PC-ness.



I agree with much that you wrote.  Where I live in NC is very much the same, I live next to an affluent suburb, but just down the street are more modest neighborhoods.  

To elaborate on what you said, I think that there is so much confusion over eating "healthy" and eating "health food".  Many seem to have the idea that eating healthy means buying organic, freerange or whatever buzzword used to overcharge for food.  You can eat very "healthy", very inexpensively even at the more low end grocery stores.  Planning menus around what is on sale, stocking up on great deals when it makes sense to do so, etc..

We have been taught as a society that we are far too busy to cook, we have been taught that to be a successful person/parent that we should always be busy.  I have seen toddlers enrolled in karate and ballet classes, then when they get in school they are involved in lots of stuff, so a family these days is pretty much running around carting their kids from activity to activity.  Marketing has done a great job convincing society that they should be doing all of this, and that their products are the answer to their hectic lives.  I see this day in and day out, working in an affluent suburb.  I can see why divorce rates are so high, parents working their tails off to fund a home, 2 cars and every activity that their kids are involved in, with no time for a real relationship with each other or their children.  Society has gone way off track.

Cooking wholesome food doesn't have to be difficult or expensive, but if your day is completely filled I can see where people justify filling themselves and their kids with junk, even when they shouldn't


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## CookLikeJulia

This link is very true. It's the reality fo what we are facing right now. 
Thanks for the post.


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## Kathleen

The article is unfortunately true where I live.  One place that I see class divides with food are at the local high school's cafeteria.  Children with free/reduced lunches eat the school lunch, which is limited in healthy choices.  Lots of cheap carbs and pressed/processed proteins.  Children from wealthier families bring their lunches, which are typically filled with good foods.  Unless it is taco day, then they all rush for the junk.

Recently, the student government wrote a letter complaining of lack of healthier snacks.  They have a good point: snack cakes, chips and sugary drinks.  Can they not place unsweetened juice in a machine?

~Kathleen


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## Zhizara

A well made taco is not junk.  Meat, tomatoes, lettuce, onion, sour cream, black olives in a crispy, but not fried corn shell.


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## cooltouch

Zhizara said:


> A well made taco is not junk.  Meat, tomatoes, lettuce, onion, sour cream, black olives in a crispy, but not fried corn shell.



+1, but minus the sour cream for me  and I prefer my tacos soft, the way they serve them at the local carniceria.


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## Zhizara

cooltouch said:


> +1, but minus the sour cream for me  and I prefer my tacos soft, the way they serve them at the local carniceria.



Even more good for you.


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## Kathleen

In a cafeteria that sells pancakes with sausage for lunch...to be served with mashed potatoes and canned string beans, I'm willing to wager that the tacos are made with the lowest grade ingredients they can legally get by with.  Seriously.  The meat rests in about an inch of fat waiting for placement on the shell.  There is a reason the students are taking notice, which I'm happy to see.  Staff concerns have fallen on deaf ears.  Food vendors are selected at the district, not the school, level.  

These tacos are usually served on a soft tortillas with cheese and sour cream.  No tomatoes, no lettuce, no onion, and no black olives.  One can get a handful of iceberg if they select the taco salad which comes with Doritos.  The tacos come with a little packet of generic taco sauce.  Taco salads are only iceberg lettuce with taco meat, cheese, and sour cream.  The kids love this taco meat though.  It's very salty to me...and very greasy.

~Kathleen


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## roadfix

Most inner cities don't have super markets.  Most of these poor folks do their grocery shopping at their corner liquor stores.....not much choice there.


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## cooltouch

KathleenA said:


> In a cafeteria that sells pancakes with sausage for lunch...to be served with mashed potatoes and canned string beans, I'm willing to wager that the tacos are made with the lowest grade ingredients they can legally get by with.  Seriously.  The meat rests in about an inch of fat waiting for placement on the shell.  There is a reason the students are taking notice, which I'm happy to see.  Staff concerns have fallen on deaf ears.  Food vendors are selected at the district, not the school, level.



Unfortunately, the solution to that problem is a politcal one.  Vote the rascals out.


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## CasperImproved

KathleenA said:


> In a cafeteria that sells pancakes with sausage for lunch...to be served with mashed potatoes and canned string beans, I'm willing to wager that the tacos are made with the lowest grade ingredients they can legally get by with.  Seriously.  The meat rests in about an inch of fat waiting for placement on the shell.  There is a reason the students are taking notice, which I'm happy to see.  Staff concerns have fallen on deaf ears.  Food vendors are selected at the district, not the school, level.
> 
> These tacos are usually served on a soft tortillas with cheese and sour cream.  No tomatoes, no lettuce, no onion, and no black olives.  One can get a handful of iceberg if they select the taco salad which comes with Doritos.  The tacos come with a little packet of generic taco sauce.  Taco salads are only iceberg lettuce with taco meat, cheese, and sour cream.  The kids love this taco meat though.  It's very salty to me...and very greasy.
> 
> ~Kathleen



Hi Kathleen.

I often have soft shells in my fridge (flour tortillas) they are there for the lost causes on my life.

I often have stuff I would relegate to the trash bag. But some days, they end up in a soft shell as misfits of my imagination.

I could probably write a book. But no one would read it


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## snickerdoodle

KathleenA said:


> I don't know whether I first saw this link here at DC or not, but this is an excellent article about this very topic.
> 
> Newsweek - Divided We Eat
> 
> In a nutshell, the article states that people eat what they can afford to eat based on the time they have, and food is the new class-defining item.
> 
> ~Kathleen


 
The article was a good read.  It effectively demonstrates that there is a problem with our food system, and that's what's important.  I still believe that the most effective way to correct these problems is by "voting with our dollars".  In a capitalist economy, this is the only sure way to be heard.  Unfortunately, without proper health and culinary education, much of our population doesn't recognize that we have significant food supply problems so a lot of people are still voting for junk.  I'm not saying my voting record at the grocery store is flawless, it's far from it (according to MY standards anyway...) but I think I'm on the right track.  How to educate people so they can make good purchases at the store is a dilemma.  I really don't know what the best way to do that would be.


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## babetoo

we need to reinstate home ec. classes. many moons ago when i was in high school, we had to pass a home ec. class in order to graduate. we were taught the basics of nutrition. we learned to cook simple meals. we certainly did not learn all their was to know. but we learned enough to build on when we began to prepare meals for a family. we were also taught how to balance a checking account. most kids today, think plastic is a never ending source of goods.


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## PattY1

This thread prompted me to find my response to a old thread from 2008 "Poor People Can't Afford Healthy Food".

Here are my responses that I still stand by:

Post # 114

The bottom line is the reasons "poor people are overweight" are:

Lack of money
Lack of education
Lack of shopping options
Lack of refrigeration, stove, oven and storage space
Lack of transportation


It is just a Fact that prepackaged high carb food is cheaper, easier to  prepare, can be purchased anywhere, requires little refrigeration,  limited cooking resources and stores easier. So it can be purchased with  or without transportation.

Post # 54

Some comments state buying meat, fruit, fresh veggies sensibly and  cheaper. But no one has mentioned the high price of the spices and oils  that is needed to make a good meal. The price of the ever precious EVOO  is ridiculous. So, yes it is cheaper to buy prepackaged meals, let alone  takes less time. I could go on, but will stop here.


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## ChefJune

Andy M. said:


> In the post war in the US, the food industry began introducing prepared/processed foods. I can remember the fuss over TV dinners, Hamburger Helper, etc. It was a national movement to embrace the ease of dinner preparation by using these products. TV was full of them. That made many lazy. It was just too easy and "look, it's the in thing to do".


 
I remember all that, too, Andy. My mom dutifully tried all the new-fangled foods, but we rejected them, one at a time!  All, that is, except for a fairly wide array of frozen vegetables in the wintertime.  

And I remember those old-time tv commercials luring busy moms to TV dinners and hamburger helper.  (Man, that is nasty stuff! ) Can we say S-A-L-T-Y?


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## roadfix

I blame the TV trays.


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## Zhizara

ChefJune said:


> I remember all that, too, Andy. My mom dutifully tried all the new-fangled foods, but we rejected them, one at a time!  All, that is, except for a fairly wide array of frozen vegetables in the wintertime.
> 
> And I remember those old-time tv commercials luring busy moms to TV dinners and hamburger helper.  (Man, that is nasty stuff! ) Can we say S-A-L-T-Y?



Me too.  The one thing I got out of Home Ec was how to make a white sauce.  It is the basis for all my sauces and gravies.


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## Kathleen

CasperImproved said:


> Hi Kathleen.
> 
> I often have soft shells in my fridge (flour tortillas) they are there for the lost causes on my life.
> 
> I often have stuff I would relegate to the trash bag. But some days, they end up in a soft shell as misfits of my imagination.
> 
> I could probably write a book. But no one would read it



I'd read it!  



snickerdoodle said:


> The article was a good read.  It effectively demonstrates that there is a problem with our food system, and that's what's important.  I still believe that the most effective way to correct these problems is by "voting with our dollars".  In a capitalist economy, this is the only sure way to be heard.  Unfortunately, without proper health and culinary education, much of our population doesn't recognize that we have significant food supply problems so a lot of people are still voting for junk.  I'm not saying my voting record at the grocery store is flawless, it's far from it (according to MY standards anyway...) but I think I'm on the right track.  How to educate people so they can make good purchases at the store is a dilemma.  I really don't know what the best way to do that would be.



I'm happy to see Michelle Obama's push toward healthier school lunches making some progress.  It's a start!



babetoo said:


> we need to reinstate home ec. classes. many moons ago when i was in high school, we had to pass a home ec. class in order to graduate. we were taught the basics of nutrition. we learned to cook simple meals. we certainly did not learn all their was to know. but we learned enough to build on when we began to prepare meals for a family. we were also taught how to balance a checking account. most kids today, think plastic is a never ending source of goods.



I agree!



ChefJune said:


> I remember all that, too, Andy. My mom dutifully tried all the new-fangled foods, but we rejected them, one at a time!  All, that is, except for a fairly wide array of frozen vegetables in the wintertime.
> 
> And I remember those old-time tv commercials luring busy moms to TV dinners and hamburger helper.  (Man, that is nasty stuff! ) Can we say S-A-L-T-Y?



I used to have a tag-line that read "Hamburger should never be helped."  

~Kathleen


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## mollyanne

PattY1 said:


> ...The bottom line is the reasons "poor people are overweight" are:
> Lack of money
> Lack of education
> Lack of shopping options
> Lack of refrigeration, stove, oven and storage space
> Lack of transportation


With all due respect I can't agree with that. Poor people are fatter than the middle-class?? I haven't seen that. And as to the reasons...what about lack of willpower? genetics? health issues that lesson ability to exercise? chemistry? etc etc 
What about those who feel comfortable in their own skin and aren't affected by Hollywood's tilted view of thinness?


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## roadfix

mollyanne said:


> Poor people are fatter than the middle-class??


Didn't it used to be the other way around?  Fat people used to symbolize wealth?


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## Zhizara

Have you seen the portions they get at those expensive restaurants?  Hardly enough to feed a gerbil.  I've always thought that was why the "thin & rich" comment.


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## roadfix

Zhizara said:


> Have you seen the portions they get at those expensive restaurants?  Hardly enough to feed a gerbil.  I've always thought that was why the "thin & rich" comment.


At least they're pretty to look at....... the plated food, that is....


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## Zhizara

roadfix said:


> At least they're pretty to look at....... the plated food, that is....



I believe it was Julia Child who said it looked like they were playing with her food too much.  I'm not a fan of piled up food.  Pretty yeah - appetizing, nope.


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## PattY1

mollyanne said:


> With all due respect I can't agree with that. Poor people are fatter than the middle-class?? I haven't seen that. And as to the reasons...what about lack of willpower? genetics? health issues that lesson ability to exercise? chemistry? etc etc
> What about those who feel comfortable in their own skin and aren't affected by Hollywood's tilted view of thinness?



I Never stated that was a complete list of reasons. And YES, real poor people(unless you are talking about drug addicted people with children)will chose a gross of Ramen Noodles or Boxed Mac-n-Cheese over fresh food because they can get more for their money. More sugar, more carbs, more fat, more salt. More comfort food satisfaction.

If you had three children to feed for a week with 20 dollars, would you A) buy fresh apples at 1.89 a pound (remember apples are heavy), tomatoes at 1.99 a lb, lettuce, carrots, onions, celery, cucumber ect. for a salad at market prices. A nutritional cereal of whole grains, with milk. And some lean protein. If you manage to purchase all of this for $ 20.00, you probably will only have enough to last for 2 1/2 days. 

Or B) Ramen noodle, one pack per child @ .20 is more then enough for 1 meal and Boxed mac and cheese, feed them all a meal with one box. Milk is a given. A package of cheap hot dogs(because you can stretch the meat into at least 3 meals, more if you are creative). A bag of sweetened cereal(no sugar in your budget).  You already feel guilty enough about not being able to feed them well, so you don't need hungry (but when they eat, they eat well)  cranky kids to add to your stress level.

Overweight middle class people are just lazy on many levels.
Just my observation in my little spot on the map.


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## roadfix

Generally speaking, I agree with PattY1, as I often witness this myself, living in a widely diverse social economic region.   Less expensive, processed foods are more practical for some of these families.


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## CasperImproved

Thanks for sharing with us PTY1.

I often need someone like you to remind me of the reasons why I need to listen more.

Thanks for sharing. Your message is something I have in my heart.


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## PrincessFiona60

PattY1 said:


> Overweight middle class people are just lazy on many levels.  Just my observation in my little spot on the map.


 
Pardon me, that is a severe over-generalization of middle-class people who are also overweight.  Many people have health conditions and/or take medications that cause weight-gain.


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## taxlady

Zhizara said:


> I believe it was Julia Child who said it looked like they were playing with her food too much.  I'm not a fan of piled up food.  Pretty yeah - appetizing, nope.



Julia Child, "It's so beautifully arranged on the plate -- you know someone's fingers have been all over it."

But, they have had their fingers all over it while they were cooking it. We just have to hope they wash their hands well.


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## Debraj

I bet every aspect of this subject has been coverd. I diddn't have time to read them all.My only addition to the thread is that I really love to cook.I spend most work days looking forward to getting home to cook.It's relaxing to me.I really do dislike frozen dinners and never buy them.I rarely attempt complicated meals dureing the week but, for the most part I useually make somethig kind of edible.I know that not everybody loves to cook and for those people they should really give it a try it really is alot of fun.


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## mollyanne

PattY1 said:
			
		

> Overweight middle class people are just lazy on many different levels.





PrincessFiona60 said:


> Pardon me, that is a severe over-generalization of middle-class people who are also overweight. Many people have health conditions and/or take medications that cause weight-gain.


My thinking as well, Princess. In fact the title of this thread alone is also a severe over-generalization.

.


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## buckytom

yeah, slobs like me and moll eat very well, thank you very much.

one man's slob is another man's blood donor, don't forget.


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## Chef Munky

Overweight middle class people are just lazy on many levels.
Just my observation in my little spot on the map.[/QUOTE]

Patty,
Your little closed minded spot on the world is a sad one to be in. I can't help but be offended by your general lack understanding.

Or is it that your living that middle class lifestyle yourself, that makes you so well informed and judgmental?


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## PattY1

Overweight middle class people are just lazy on many levels.
*Just my observation in my little spot on the map.*[/QUOTE]

Ok, this is what you people seem to have a problem with, so be it. Please reread what I have highlighted in brown.
Those of you who did not like that part of my post did not even comment on the first part of it. WHY? Agree or disagree or just want to be controversial?

Meet you on the monkey bars.


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## buckytom

lol, the only thing wrong on so many levels are your comments, patty. 

do they have compassion or empathy in your little spot on the map?


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## CasperImproved

You go right on ahead and spotting Patty. Those of us that don't know better, will someday with your help.

But don't refer to me as "you people". My name is Casper.


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## PattY1

CasperImproved said:


> You go right on ahead and spotting Patty. Those of us that don't know better, will someday with your help.
> 
> But don't refer to me as "you people". My name is Casper.



Sorry, that was a upset generalization. And kinda a inside joke that has nothing to do with this site.


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## CasperImproved

Just so we don't get this wrong? I like the way your ship sails. I am too newly devorced to like someone else in that way. But you made me smile.


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## buckytom

patty, i just got your pm and responded, but i'll reply here as well.

your ignorance and arrogance is astouding. you might even see it as being obese.


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## Chef Munky

" So be it?" Easy way out eh'?

Don't even go the "poor mans menu" choice with me. I  didn't comment on your first part of the post, because you were rationalizing a fictitious family in general. Get real! The average family is 4 +

"If you had three children to feed for a week with 20 dollars, would you  A) buy fresh apples at 1.89 a pound (remember apples are heavy),  tomatoes at 1.99 a lb, lettuce, carrots, onions, celery, cucumber ect.  for a salad at market prices. A nutritional cereal of whole grains, with  milk. And some lean protein. If you manage to purchase all of this for $  20.00, you probably will only have enough to last for 2 1/2 days."

Real parents on a budget, forget what's heavy wouldn't you think Potatoes would have been a better choice? More to do with them that's healthy then an Apple don't ya think? What about regional areas, out of season produce that's been marked up?

My parents fed not only 8 kids of their own, but the neighborhood kids as well on one tight budget. We ate well.

"Or B) Ramen noodle, one pack per child @ .20 is more then enough for 1  meal and Boxed mac and cheese, feed them all a meal with one box. Milk  is a given. A package of cheap hot dogs(because you can stretch the meat  into at least 3 meals, more if you are creative). A bag of sweetened  cereal(no sugar in your budget).  You already feel guilty enough about  not being able to feed them well, so you don't need hungry (but when  they eat, they eat well)  cranky kids to add to your stress level."

My Mother on the budget she was on. We were lucky enough to never be introduced to Top Ramen or boxed Mac and cheese until we as adults moved out! She or my Dad made our breakfast, packed our lunches themselves. We hardly ever saw saw Hot Dogs. Those to were your choice, not something my Mom or myself could justify. My Mom had her limits to!

I read your little brown highlight. Still think it's a sad comment , general rationalization to make. But you are entitled to make them. Sad as it is it's a forum.

I still wonder if you would ever verbalize your comments to the generally overweight middle classes faces?


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## PattY1

Chef Munky said:


> " So be it?" Easy way out eh'?
> 
> 
> Real parents on a budget, forget what's heavy wouldn't you think Potatoes would have been a better choice? More to do with them that's healthy then an Apple don't ya think? What about regional areas, out of season produce that's been marked up?
> 
> 
> *I read your little brown highlight. Still think it's a sad comment , general rationalization to make. But you are entitled to make them. Sad as it is it's a forum.
> 
> I still wonder if you would ever verbalize your comments to the generally overweight middle classes faces?*



An educated person would know that a apple would be a better choice. It is considered "the perfect food".

*Opinions are like AZZHATS, everyone has one, not everyone should take there's personally. *


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## buckytom

so, you are suggesting that educated people should ignore your azzhatted opinion?

well, ok.


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## Chef Munky

PattY1 said:


> An educated person would know that a apple would be a better choice. It is considered "the perfect food".
> 
> *Opinions are like AZZHATS, everyone has one, not everyone should take there's personally. *



Now Patty, play nice before you and your opinions are kicked out of the sandbox

Tell a 5 year old to eat that and suck it up. See what that would get you in return.

Nothing else to add to back up your supposed educated background besides an Apple? Careful now Adam fell for that trap! 

You have yet to answer MY questions. The "General sloppy middle class" want to know.


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## Bolas De Fraile

as a Brit I have read this thread with great interest we have the same problems over here and in Europe. I have trouble with the debate here because with such a contentious subject in such an impersonal medium it can only devolve into a slanging match.
I would say that there are some very interesting cooks on here, the interest in food here has been a revelation to me.
I think this thread should be closed but only after someone explains what an azzhat is, is it like a fanny pack


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## CasperImproved

How about we turn this thread around?

I am middle-class. I love to cook. I have opinions. I really like many of you fellow posters as you add value to my life..

I also take daily vitamins, though I don't know what good that does.

If you have a question, and it's something I had experience with, chances are I will respond with my general lack of experience, but wanted to help.

Latest experiment?

1 lb of dried kidney beans
2 large onions
1 large smoked ham hock
various spices
Chicken Soup base

Bring the beans to a boil in 3 inches of water. Let sit for an hour.
Rinse the beans. 
Add 4 cups of water, and the Ham hock. Bring to a simmer and hold there for an hour.
Add enough soup base to taste.
add diced onions.
simmer for one more hour.
Add assorted spices (I like red pepper, black pepper, and Oregano).

I also add a splash of vinegar for the win.

After the last hour simmer, you should be able to "shred" the ham hock with forks. And re-add to the soup.

I don't really use recipes much.... but I like to cook.

Here was one variation of my bean soup  I hope you try it.

Thanks for you patience.


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## Zhizara

I too vote for closing this thread.  My opinion is that what's in other people's cart at the store is none of my business.


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## CasperImproved

Code:
	






Zhizara said:


> I too vote for closing this thread.  My opinion is that what's in other people's cart at the store is none of my business.




So you didn't like the fact I forgot to add the bay leaves? I use two BTW.

But more on point? 

I don't think any thread should be closed, as long as it has value.

I read your last post here, and it had value to me.

I also respect you immensely if that matters.


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## Alix

I also vote for closing. All that needs to be said has been said. Anymore can be said via PM.


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