# Pot Pie Filling turning sour!



## vblake (Oct 16, 2005)

HELP! My chicken pot pie filling has always come out great when I made it in my Calphalon pot. When I used a different pot, The mix came out very sour. I got what I thought was a stainless steel pot, however, the mix was still our the next day. After asking around, I understand that there may still be aluminum in the core of the bottom of the pot. If I do invest in an "all stainless steel" pot, will this still happen? I make the filling in bulk-20 quarts, then I refridgerate it in the pot overnight. The next day, I make the crusts, fill them, and freeze them. In my recipe, I use a few cups of either nonfat dry milk powder, or whole milk, along with the chicken broth. Is there anyone who knows anything about this? I am new to this website in the hopes of someone more knowledgable than me having some answers.


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## Constance (Oct 16, 2005)

Your milk wasn't sour was it? I can't imagine that aluminum would have made it taste sour. Did you scrub the new pot thoroughly before using it?


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## Michael in FtW (Oct 16, 2005)

Constance said:
			
		

> Your milk wasn't sour was it? I can't imagine that aluminum would have made it taste sour. Did you scrub the new pot thoroughly before using it?


 
Good thought Constance! Funky ingredients will give you funky results regarless of the pot its cooked in. 

Aluminum in the "core" on the bottom of a stainless steel pot will not be a problem. The aluminum is totally isolated from the food - it's a stainless steel pot with an aluminum disk stuck on the bottom for more even distribution of the heat. The aluminum does not come in contact with the food.

It sounds like you may have used a regular standard professional-kitchen aluminum pot. I can't think of anything acetic enough in a chicken pot pie filling that would have caused it to go "sour" during the cooking ... brand doesn't matter ... but storing it overnight in aluminum could definately have caused it to pick up a "funky" flavor. 

I would suggest checking with a restaurant supply house in your area and get plastic food grade storage containers for your overnight storage. My personal preference is clear Polycarbonate plastic made by Cambro (that's what I use because it doesn't stain), although Polyethylene should work just fine - and is a bit cheaper (about 1/2 the price).


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## KAYLINDA (Oct 16, 2005)

Welcome vblake!  Glad to have you on the site!


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## jennyema (Oct 16, 2005)

WELCOME

I also suspect that it's probably an ingredient and not the pot.
And also, you don't want "all" stainless cookware.  An aluminum core (or a copper core) is a much better choice. Great heat conductors.   Like Michael said, problems arise when aluminum (reactive) touches food -- as in an all aluminum pot or pan.


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## vblake (Oct 16, 2005)

Thanks for your advice.  The milk was definately not sour and this happened several times with the stainless steel pot.  The sauce was creamy and delicious when I made it in the ss pot.  After refridgerating it overnight, filling the crusts, and baking them, something happened to turn the filling bad.  When they come out of the oven, the filling isn't even creamy anymore.  It seems somewhat separated and smells and tastes sour.  The ingredients and method are exactly the same as when I used my smaller anodized pot.  I need to make it in bulk now, so using a hard anodized pot isn't an option anymore.  I bought this ss pot in a restaurant supply house.  It is very heavy duty and is not a standard aluminum pot.  It is a 24 quart ss pot.


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## jennyema (Oct 16, 2005)

SS is non reactive and I am pretty sure would not cause the filling to go sour.

This has happened more than once??


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## vblake (Oct 16, 2005)

Yes.  I have made the same recipe for years and never had a problem until I changed pots.  I have tried at least 4 times in the new pot and all of them went bad.  I can't seem to pinpoint where I'm going wrong .


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## jennyema (Oct 16, 2005)

HMMMMMMMMM... that's weird!  Are you sure that the interior is stainless??


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## vblake (Oct 16, 2005)

The pot I bought is ss.  You can't imagine how crazy this has been making me.


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## Andy M. (Oct 16, 2005)

What the others have said is right on.  The pot is stainless therefore the pot is NOT the cause.  If it happens several times, you have a bad batch of some ingredient.  Have you checked the temp of the fridge?


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## Piccolina (Oct 16, 2005)

Just a crazy thought, but...Could it possibly have anything to do with the chemicals/soap/scouring pads that you are using to clean your pots with?


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## marmalady (Oct 17, 2005)

It would be better anyway if you cooled the mixture down in a large plastic covered tub. Putting the hot pot and mixture in the fridge won't cool it down fast enough.


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## Constance (Oct 17, 2005)

You know, sometimes it's hard to cook a large thick mixture like that and keep the bottom stirred well enough. Could it be that it's scorching on the bottom? That will ruin the taste of the whole batch. I did that once when I was cooking a big batch of creamed corn for the freezer.


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## Lizannd (Oct 17, 2005)

*I suspect it is not cooling fast enough when you make a large batch and leave it*

in the large pan.  Try dividing up the mixture into smaller amounts, which is what you had when you made the smaller batch and, cooling quickly.  It sounds almost like you are making yogurt when you keep milk warm for several hours.
If you can't divide into smaller portions then cool the whole pot in a sink full of ice and keep stirring til cool.


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## jennyema (Oct 17, 2005)

I think the others may be on to something ...

Could be that the SS pot is better at retaining heat than your old one and the mixture is cooling more slowly than before.


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## foodaholic (Oct 17, 2005)

vblake said:
			
		

> HELP! My chicken pot pie filling has always come out great when I made it in my Calphalon pot. When I used a different pot, The mix came out very sour. I got what I thought was a stainless steel pot, however, the mix was still our the next day. After asking around, I understand that there may still be aluminum in the core of the bottom of the pot. If I do invest in an "all stainless steel" pot, will this still happen? I make the filling in bulk-20 quarts, then I refridgerate it in the pot overnight. The next day, I make the crusts, fill them, and freeze them. In my recipe, I use a few cups of either nonfat dry milk powder, or whole milk, along with the chicken broth. Is there anyone who knows anything about this? I am new to this website in the hopes of someone more knowledgable than me having some answers.


 
Generally speaking the base for a chicken pot pie is a veloute,yours is milk.It is possible that if you left it in the pot covered while the mixture was still hot that the condensation could have caused the sourness that you speak of.Happens all the time in commercial kitchens when someone puts a lid on a bucket of chicken stock and throws it in the walkin still hot.If you have anything acidic like lemon in the recipe along with the milk and again not allowing the mixture to cool properly,and by that I mean 
not covered,then covered and refriderated.Possibly the chicken stock was not the freshest as well.I doubt it was the pot,metallic is one thing,sour is another.


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## vblake (Oct 17, 2005)

The cooling down idea is the only thing so far that really makes sense.  I didn't want to have to transfer everything into smaller containers, but it seeems I have no choice.  I'll definately give it a try.  Thank you all for your input.  I'll let you know how it turns out next time.  Hopefully I won't be wasting my time and money again.  This has been a very costly problem, especially because all of the ingredients are certified organic!  If this works, my customers will be very thankful as will I!


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## marmalady (Oct 17, 2005)

Costly, yes; and if it's certified organic, spend a little money on food-certified plastic containers, especially if you're selling your product. All you need is 1 customer complaint or illness, and you could be out of business.


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## gwkr36a (Oct 17, 2005)

If your sink can hold the pot in it. You could try cooling it in an ice bath first. Thats the
way we used to do hot liquids in the commercial kitchen I worked in.


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## purrfectlydevine (Oct 17, 2005)

Just a thought--perhaps by keeping it in the pot to refrigerate, the filling is in the danger zone (temperature) too long and is spoiling because of that. By putting the filling is several smaller containers you increase the surface to mass ratio (where have I heard that before?) and speed cooling. You could also fill a larger pan with ice and put your filled containers in that to speed cooling, but that has been said.


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## Raine (Oct 18, 2005)

I might suspect the cooling down time. If you don't cool large volumes of food correctly, it will spoil.  Never put large hot items in the refrigerator.


Servsafe guidelines are:

​​_Cool foods from 140_°_F to 70_°_F within 2 hours and then from 70_°_F to below 41_°_F within an additional 4 hours
_​_
_


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## kitchenelf (Oct 18, 2005)

I know, I know, I should read all the answers before posting mine but I don't have time - sorry.

You either need to cool your mixture a LOT before putting it in the fridge or if you do put it in the fridge poke some vent holes in the plastic wrap, lid, or whatever - or leave the lid askew until relatively cool.  A lot of souring can happen because the heat cannot escape fast enough and stays at a dangerous temperature for too long.  But you must cool it first - you cannot put a "just off the stove" into the fridge without some bad results, especially if covered.


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## vblake (Oct 19, 2005)

Thanks everyone! I'm going to give it a shot.


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## vblake (Nov 10, 2005)

*Well, well, well!!!  I made my 24 quarts of chicken pot pie filling in the ss pot, transferred the mixture int 4 separate 6 quart food safe containers, then refrigerated them uncovered.  The next day I filled the pastries, froze them, and the day after that, my brother and sister (who sell them in their store) baked a few for their own lunch.  They both called to say it was the best I had ever made. HIP HIP HOORAY!  I'm back in business.  I am so thankfull to all of you for your input and I will continue to visit this website as well as tell my friends about it.  I have given all of you the credit to solving my problem.  I will never refrigerate large quantities of hot food again! Thank you!!!*


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## marmalady (Nov 11, 2005)

Congrats! Glad everything turned out well - maybe you could post your recipe for us?  

Don't mean to sound preachy, but if you're going to be making food for resale, you should definitely take a food safety course (usually through the local tech college or adult education folks); or at least do a seach online to find out more information. 

If you're cooking out of your home and someone buys something that's not good, your brother, his business and you could all be sued. 

Most of the information is common sense anyway, but if you had taken this course, you would have learned about cooling large batches of food to prevent spoilage.


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## FXAdam (Nov 11, 2005)

*This explains a lot.*

My girlfriend and I recently made a large pot of chili and the same thing happened to it. We took it off of the stove and put it in the fridge and afterwards it tasted sour as well. Still edible, well, I think it taste okay, but she doesn't like it.

Never thought that cooling it too fast would be the problem though. It tasted fine before we put it to cool. Next time it cools on the stovetop I believe.

Thanks for the info.


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## Andy M. (Nov 11, 2005)

FXAdam said:
			
		

> ...Never thought that cooling it too fast would be the problem though. It tasted fine before we put it to cool. Next time it cools on the stovetop I believe...


 
I think you misread the solution.  *Cooling too slowly is the problem* that causes the 'off' taste.  Extended times at temperatures between 40F and 140F provide a perfect environment for bacteria to breed.  This can produce the sour or other bad tastes you can encounter.

For your next batch of chili, cook up the big pot then put it into several smaller containers to chill.


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## Michael in FtW (Nov 11, 2005)

vblake - thank you for sharing your results with us! Feedback really helps everyone know what worked in a particular situation. Without it - we're all still guessing and wondering.


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## FXAdam (Nov 13, 2005)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> I think you misread the solution. *Cooling too slowly is the problem* that causes the 'off' taste.


 

I think you may be right re: misreading.

This makes even more sense.

Thanks again


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