# Pastrami (Smoked Corned Beef)



## LarryWolfe (Feb 23, 2005)

I know there are a hundred links on other boards about making pastrami on the WSM, but I want to hear from you guys.  Has anyone here ever smoked a corned beef brisket?  My father has been asking for one, and his birthday is coming up and I'd like to make one for him and need suggestions.  Thanks


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## Captain Morgan (Feb 23, 2005)

Ya know, in my ECB days, I kept reading on the internet about these fabulous briskets, which are unheard of here except for the corned beef variety.  But to further my growth in the knowledge of bbq, I faithfully went and bought one, smoked according to instructions on the net, and sat down to enjoy real Texas bbq!

  "Dang,"  I said to myself, "this would be good with russian dressing and cole slaw on rye!  Those crazy Texans!"


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## Captain Morgan (Feb 23, 2005)

I meant to add, I think there is an additional ingrediant or step or spice or something rather than just chunking it on a corned beef in the smoke.  Still mine taste real close to pastrami.


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## Finney (Feb 23, 2005)

Funny Cat'n.  :roll:


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## Captain Morgan (Feb 23, 2005)

Actually, I think you just motivated me to do a pastrami....with my slicer, I can get some great thin slices for dem dere reubens, which I love.....might be served next poker night.   I can probably fit 2 buts and a cbbrisket....let's get Larry and me some answers!


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2005)

Captain Morgan said:
			
		

> ....let's get Larry and me some answers!


Yes, let's do ~ This is *one of the forums* where off-topic discussion is to be curtailed.


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## Finney (Feb 23, 2005)

Niagara River Smoker said:
			
		

> [quote="Captain Morgan":1txevtmt]....let's get Larry and me some answers!


Yes, let's do ~ This is *one of the forums* where off-topic discussion is to be curtailed.  [/quote:1txevtmt]

Because my post was the only one that didn't actually mention cooking ( I guess I should have said "Funny Capt'n, cooking pastrami") I will apologize.  :-( 

You have to admitt... we are doing better.   :roll: 

Larry and Cappie,
Check out the TVWB site for info.  I haven't done one.  :?


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2005)

Yours wasn't the only, Chris...Maybe it only seemed that way because of the lull yesterday...And Larry did specifically ask for this boards help on his initial post.  Off-topic discussion ends here!


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## Bill The Grill Guy (Feb 23, 2005)

Funny you should ask Chris.  I just did one on monday.  I love them smoked.  I should warn you though, you have to let it soak in water over night and change the water a couple of times.  Other wise it will be very salty.  Give it a good rub and smoke it.  I got mine up to 165 then wrapped it in foil and put it back on for a while longer.  Man it was good.


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## LarryWolfe (Feb 23, 2005)

Bill The Grill Guy said:
			
		

> Funny you should ask Chris.  I just did one on monday.  I love them smoked.  I should warn you though, you have to let it soak in water over night and change the water a couple of times.  Other wise it will be very salty.  Give it a good rub and smoke it.  I got mine up to 165 then wrapped it in foil and put it back on for a while longer.  Man it was good.



Bill,
     When you say "give it a rub" are you referring to "rub" or just coarse ground pepper?  I am gonna try to make it as close to the real thing as I can for my dad, otherwise he'll tell me "this don't taste like pastrami"!  Also, what was the "finished" temp?


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## Bill The Grill Guy (Feb 23, 2005)

Here is a link for a good pastrami recipie.  I use my own brisket rub on mine.
http://www.randyq.addr.com/recipes/pastrami.htm


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## Bruce B (Feb 23, 2005)

Larry,

Randy's site has an excellent article on pastrami and I think TVWB also has a pictorial cooking section on pastrami. If you do a search there, and I shudder at mentioning him, but Doug D does pastrami alot and has very good posts on the subject.


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## Nick Prochilo (Feb 23, 2005)

I think I know what I'm doing for St. Patricks day!


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## Woodman1 (Feb 23, 2005)

Hey, I never even knew what the stuff was, but I'm gonna give it a go too! Woody


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## LarryWolfe (Feb 23, 2005)

Nick Prochilo said:
			
		

> I think I know what I'm doing for St. Patricks day!



Nick,
      Gotta keep with tradition for St. Patricks Day!  Corned Beef, Cabbage, Carrots and New potatoes along with a few Guinness!


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## jminion1 (Feb 23, 2005)

Larry
Pastrami and Corned beef are two different cures. Both use salt, brown sugar, black pepper, garlic and cure #1 but then then pastrami uses pickling spices where corned beef uses allspice, bay leaf and red pepper flakes as an example.

Both are very good smoked but there is a difference in flavor.
Jim


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## Captain Morgan (Feb 24, 2005)

Jim,
if I buy a "corned beef brisket", I suppose it's already been cured and all I have to do is smoke it?  Should I add the spices you mentioned?


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## LarryWolfe (Feb 24, 2005)

jminion said:
			
		

> Larry
> Pastrami and Corned beef are two different cures. Both use salt, brown sugar, black pepper, garlic and cure #1 but then then pastrami uses pickling spices where corned beef uses allspice, bay leaf and red pepper flakes as an example.
> 
> Both are very good smoked but there is a difference in flavor.
> Jim



Jim,
     I need your honest advice on this one!  I'm not going to have the time to do the actual cure myself, so I've come up with an alternate plan.  Here's what I'd like to do since pastrami and corned beef do in fact use the same cure but different spices.  I'd like to use a pre-packaged corned beef brisket, that comes with an unopened spice package that contains the spices you mentioned.  But has not flavored the meat in anyway.  (or do you think the cure itself may have contained additional spices as well that have already flavored the meat? if so I realize there is nothing I can do about that!) Then I'd like soak the corned beef in pickling spices and water in the fridge for 24 hours, coat fresh coarse ground black pepper then cook.  

In your opinion will this taste anything close to pastrami or will it just taste like a smoked corned beef brisket that's been flavored with pickling spice?  If so should I just cook the corned beef as is, without adding the pickling spice since it will still be pretty tasty?  Thanks.


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## Captain Morgan (Feb 24, 2005)

That's what I was going to say...er..ask.


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## Finney (Feb 24, 2005)

Yeah, me too. :?


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## Bill The Grill Guy (Feb 24, 2005)

Hey Capt

You have to be careful with store bought corned beef.  It is very salty if you dont soak it in water to get some of the salt out.  I try to soak it over night changing the water a couple of times.  Other wise you will end up with very salty pastrami.  Just my .02 worth.


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## Captain Morgan (Feb 24, 2005)

I'll soak overnight!  I'm sensitive to salt....


What wood should I use?


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## jminion1 (Feb 24, 2005)

Larry
There are some differences in the spices but if you were to add pickling spices to a corned beef I think it would get you close enough for a lot of folks. I'm just not sure how well pickling spices and allspice do together.

I have a recipe for dry cured beef tenderloin which is outstanding you may want to try sometime. I love this stuff.

The seasonings are largely North African. Understand that this recipe will not give you the salami-like bresaola sold at Italian markets, but more of an aged-beef product.

Bresaola

1 whole beef tenderloin, trimmed
2.5 T brown sugar
1 T black peppercorns, toasted and ground
0.5 t thyme
0.5 t ground ginger
0.5 t ground allspice
0.5 t mace
0.5 t corriander seeds, toasted and ground
0.25 t cumin seeds, toasted and ground
0.25 t ground cloves
3 cardamom seeds, crushed
6 dried tabasco chilies, toasted, seeded, and ground
4 t salt

Mix all ingredients except salt -- massage entire mixture into meat. Place tenderloin on a rack above a sheet pan in the refrigerator -- do not cover.

Age meat in refrigerator 7 or 8 days, then rub salt onto tenderloin. Return to refrigerator for up to 48 hours. Grill whole tenderloin only until very rare (125*F).

After grilling refrigerate till cold, carve thinly. Serve as sandwiches with yeast rolls, fresh horseradish sauce and red onion -- shave some Asiago, too, if you'd like.

NOTES:
1. You can use 3 dried cayenne chilies if you don't have tabascos, but the tabascos add a smokiness, depth of flavor, and searing heat that cayennes cannot match.
2. I sometimes add 0.25 t of toasted ground fenugreek seeds to the rub, but just because I like the way it smells a little butterscotchy when it grills.
3. If you don't like your meat rare, I would recommend a different recipe.
4. Obviously, since this is an expensive cut of meat that will sit in your refrigerator for over a week and then be eaten very rare, it is of the utmost importance that your beef be hyper-fresh, from a reputable source, and that your refrigerator be very cold.


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## Bill The Grill Guy (Feb 24, 2005)

Randy uses peacon and oak 3:1 oak.  I dont have access to any peacon so I use apple or peach.


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## Captain Morgan (Feb 24, 2005)

I've got apple and I can get oak.

Thanks.


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## Captain Morgan (Feb 24, 2005)

ok, never one to just take a good recipe, I found a few with the following ingrediants


5 tablespoons kosher salt 
4 tablespoons paprika 
3 tablespoons coriander seeds 
3 tablespoons brown sugar 
2 tablespoons black peppercorns 
2 tablespoons yellow mustard seeds 
1 tablespoon white peppercorns 
8 cloves garlic, minced 
PREPARATION:

Combine coriander seeds, peppercorns and mustard seeds in a spice grinder. Grind coarsely. Add in remaining ingredients and mix well. Rub is now ready to use. It may be stored refrigerated in an airtight containe









2 tablespoons coriander seeds

2 tablespoons cracked black peppercorns

3 tablespoons kosher salt

3 tablespoons sweet paprika

2 tablespoons dark brown sugar

1 tablespoon mustard seeds

1 tablespoon ground ginger

6 garlic cloves, minced






2 tablespoons coriander seeds 
2 tablespoons mustard seeds 
2 tablespoons white peppercorns 
2 tablespoons allspice berries 
6 to 8 dried red chiles 
2-inch piece dried gingerroot 
2-inch piece cinnamon stick 
6 dried bay leaves 
4 tablespoons Kosher salt 



Most all have the coriander, salt and pepper, and mustard.   Some have garlic.  Any reccomendations on some of the other ingrediants (allspice, ginger?)


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## LarryWolfe (Feb 24, 2005)

Here's a bit of reading if you guys are interested about Corned Beef and Pastrami.  Pretty interesting.

Smoked Corned Beef

Pastrami


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## Captain Morgan (Feb 24, 2005)

So Wolfman, if I buy the same corned beef you mention, all I need is coriander and black pepper?


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## LarryWolfe (Feb 24, 2005)

Captain Morgan said:
			
		

> So Wolfman, if I buy the same corned beef you mention, all I need is coriander and black pepper?



That's basically the way I read it!  You too?  I'm gonna try it and see how it turns out.  But now I have a dilema, my father isn't coming out afterall this weekend and that is who I was going to make it for.  So should I wait another week when it's closer to St Patties Day when the CBB will be on sale or just go ahead and spend the $3.49 per lb?  I remember last year they were on sale for like $1.29lb for St. Patties Day.  This is beer money we're talking about here.


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## Captain Morgan (Feb 24, 2005)

lol, I just got back from the store and planned on buying the cbbrisket...not at that price!  I gotta shop around a little, but I'm gonna do one this weekend regardless.  yeah, after st. patty's day, they are ridiculously cheap...I'll stock up and freeze I reckon.

  Now, what about them pickling spices you mentioned earlier?


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## LarryWolfe (Feb 24, 2005)

Captain Morgan said:
			
		

> lol, I just got back from the store and planned on buying the cbbrisket...not at that price!  I gotta shop around a little, but I'm gonna do one this weekend regardless.  yeah, after st. patty's day, they are ridiculously cheap...I'll stock up and freeze I reckon.
> 
> Now, what about them pickling spices you mentioned earlier?



Well now that I've read more about the difference between Corned Beef and Pastrami.  It is the Corned Beef that has the picking spices not the Pastrami.  So from my interpretation of what I have read is this.  You can come very close to making Pastrami by using a store bought Corned Beef Brisket, by eliminating the seasoning packet that is included and seasoning the Corned Beef with black pepper and coriander seeds.  What do you think Skipper?


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## Captain Morgan (Feb 24, 2005)

well, my feeble mind agrees with you, but I might add a few other spices I listed, the mustard, maybe,  and the garlic.  Looks like I'm the guinea pig here.


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## LarryWolfe (Feb 24, 2005)

Captain Morgan said:
			
		

> well, my feeble mind agrees with you, but I might add a few other spices I listed, the mustard, maybe,  and the garlic.  Looks like I'm the guinea pig here.



When are you planning on doing it?  I'll try to do it the same day and we can compare notes.  Whether it tastes like Smoked Corned Beef or Pastrami, it's going to taste good I'm sure!


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## Captain Morgan (Feb 24, 2005)

I'm thinking getting the beef tomorrow, and smoking on Sat.  Thought you was waitin on family.


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## Captain Morgan (Feb 24, 2005)

well, Susan FINALLY decided to grace us with her presence, maybe she can help. ;-)


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## LarryWolfe (Feb 24, 2005)

Captain Morgan said:
			
		

> I'm thinking getting the beef tomorrow, and smoking on Sat.  Thought you was waitin on family.



Well, I was gonna wait for my Dad but what the hell.  If you are gonna do it, I'll try it too!  I have some salmon I need to cook as well, I'll throw them on once the Pastrami is done!


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## Captain Morgan (Feb 24, 2005)

you got a Vac sealer don't you?

Which reminds me, mine is messin up some.  The foam rubber seal pops up every now and then, and I pulled some thighs out of the freezer a couple of days ago, and when it thawed, CHICKEN JUICE RAN OUT OF A LITTLE HOLE IN THE SEAL!   I was hot enough to thaw them thighs!  Do I need to just get a new one, or can I repair it?  This is beef money we're talking about here!!!!!


  Plan on getting a big pastrami and freezing a bunch after slicing it.


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## LarryWolfe (Feb 24, 2005)

I'll definitely be vacking and freezing, my wife and kids won't eat it!  I am sure if you go to the manufactuer of the vac sealers website they would have a replacement gasket.  Do you partially freeze your fresh meats prior to vac sealing?  That really helps, I learned the hard way.


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## Captain Morgan (Feb 24, 2005)

well, I guess I need to try.  The things you learn on the internet!


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## Captain Morgan (Feb 25, 2005)

all righty then, just got back from Sams with 2 butts and a tiny little corned beef brisket....just the flat.  Was gonna buy 2, but didn't like the price.  Think I'm gonna soak that thang overnight....not to late to add in any spice/advice!


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## LarryWolfe (Feb 25, 2005)

Captain Morgan said:
			
		

> all righty then, just got back from Sams with 2 butts and a tiny little corned beef brisket....just the flat.  Was gonna buy 2, but didn't like the price.  Think I'm gonna soak that thang overnight....not to late to add in any spice/advice!



So you gonna tent foil over the butts to keep the Corned flavor off of the butts or just go for it?  I may not effect it at all, I dunno.


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## Captain Morgan (Feb 25, 2005)

no way I want the corned beef taste on my butts, so they are on top...they're big uns too, so I'm probably gonna tent the beef.


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## LarryWolfe (Feb 25, 2005)

Captain Morgan said:
			
		

> no way I want the corned beef taste on my butts, so they are on top...they're big uns too, so I'm probably gonna tent the beef.



Maybe you will invent a new meat?  Corned Butt!  Not trying to ask dumb ?'s but why are you gonna tent the beef if it's on top?  I was referring to tenting the pork to prevent the flavor of the corned beef from dripping on it!


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## Captain Morgan (Feb 25, 2005)

dude, for the second time today, please re-read my post for the true meaning. 

  I gotta stop typing so fast.


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