# The Tyranny of the Home-Cooked Meal



## GotGarlic (Sep 4, 2014)

Interesting take on home cooking: Home-cooked family dinners: A major burden for working mothers.

What do you think?


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## Katie H (Sep 4, 2014)

The "burden" of cooking has been discussed...always.

From my point of view, I never found it burdensome or a chore.  I must, however, point out that the bulk of my cooking for a family occurred when I was a single mother of three, living (almost) hand-to-mouth, and holding down multiple jobs.  In spite of all those obstacles, I still managed to prepare a decent, nutritious meal for my family.

I continued to do that when Buck and I married and he brought two more children to the mix.  Both of us were working outside of the home and, again, multiple jobs for both of us.  The children had school activities, and things they did after school and in the evenings, so our household was a busy one.  Somehow the meals were prepared and cooked.

Even when I didn't know where the money would come from for the next meal or the rent, I didn't depend on packaged or pre-made foods.  I've just never been one to consume something I can't pronounce.

I don't know what the answer is except that each person has to find what works best for them and take outside criticism and "expert" information for what it's worth.


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## Andy M. (Sep 4, 2014)

Just about everything you do generates some level of stress.  

I think it depends on the circumstances and the individuals.  Some men/women may take great pleasure from cooking and find it relaxing or even fulfilling.  Others will hate it and do anything to avoid cooking.  We personally appreciate the latter as that gave SO an income for many years.

Home cooking dinner and eating together as a family is the best way to go IMHO, although it's not always possible in today's world.


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## taxlady (Sep 4, 2014)

Yes, cooking can be a burden, but as the author wrote, " If we want women—or gosh, men, too—to see cooking as fun, then these  obstacles need to be fixed first. And whatever burden is left needs to  be shared."

Do they still teach cooking in school? If so, is it taught to boys? If you never learned to cook, it probably makes cooking far more of a burden.

Is fast food really cheaper than home cooked? That's not my experience, but I don't eat at Burger King or McDonald's. If home cooking isn't more expensive than fast food, then it's silly to talk about how expensive it is to cook at home.


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## Dawgluver (Sep 4, 2014)

One of the middle schools I worked in offers Family and Consumer Sciences (cooking and sewing) as an elective, and it was pretty much half girls and half boys.  Foods class is also offered at the high school, also an elective.  When I was in high school, Home Ec (also cooking and sewing) was manditory for girls, except I was in so many extra curriculars that I got to opt out.

Some days, cooking can be a burden.  Most of the time, for me, it's fun.  I can understand how, if unappreciated and for multiple family members, it would be a hassle.


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## Kayelle (Sep 4, 2014)

What a thought provoking, and well written article, and thanks for sharing it. I'm sure there were many points that "us who cook" never seriously considered. 

We all come with preconceived notions don't we.


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## Mad Cook (Sep 4, 2014)

GotGarlic said:


> Interesting take on home cooking: Home-cooked family dinners: A major burden for working mothers.
> 
> What do you think?


I wonder if this "research" was sponsored by Messrs "Birds Eye", etc?

Admittedly, I've never been a working mother but my mother was and I wasn't brought up on "ready meals" and tins. Neither was mother - her mother was left a widow with 3 school age children in the 1934 with very little money and no Welfare State to fall back on, yet she always managed to produce good, nutritious and cheap food for her children. 

As for the "tyranny" and the "burden" of having to cook a meal from scratch after a day at work - well, I used to find cooking my evening meal was rather therapeutic. I still enjoy it. I don't live miles from the nearest shop and, whilst I am nowhere near poor, I don't have a lot of cash to throw around but I still do things like making my own bread and making jams and chutneys because I like the taste, I enjoy doing it and it is a lot cheaper than buying stuff. Very occasionally, towards the end of a particularly expensive month, it can be a bit of a coin flip between a trip to the butcher or a bag of feed for horse but I never go hungry and neither does he.

Just a point. If poor mothers can't afford basic kitchen equipment such as a sharp knife as suggested in the article, how are they supposed to be able to  afford ready meals? 

Do US schools have domestic science/home economics classes for pupils? I suspect that behind the problem is that a lot of women don't know how to provide good food because they've never been taught, either at home or school.

Any criticism implicit in my reply is aimed at the authors of the article not the poor (in both senses) mothers. It's disgraceful in this affluent day and age that women with children should be left to struggle on in the sort of pest-infested, unhealthy "homes" described in the article. That's positively dickensian.


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## Katie H (Sep 4, 2014)

I began cooking at age 8 so by the time I reached high school and had the option to take home ec, I wasn't interested.  Particularly since the class mainly consisted of the teacher, who was stuck on herself, teaching proper manners/etiquette and, as far as cooking was concerned, complex things such as brownies and popcorn.  The whole curriculum was a joke and no male student would have been caught dead in any of the classes.  By then I was so far ahead of that I would've been bored out of my gourd.  Instead, I took French, which has been quite useful to me along life's path.

My best friend has a daughter, with a family, who is a stay-at-home mom and could care less about cooking...anything.  It's interesting, too, because her mother is an accomplished and good cook and always has been.  Not sure where the daughter became disconnected in that area.

Her family is treated to all manner of packaged and boxed meals and otherwise prepared items.  I just don't get it.  She has the time and the financial resources to prepare her family's meals.  Oh, well.


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## Zhizara (Sep 4, 2014)

I think I've always enjoyed cooking, so being a working mother and cooking dinner never felt like a stress to me.


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef (Sep 4, 2014)

I was a single father from the time Plague of Locusts was 9 months old until he got married at 23, and to even his amazement, I put a hot meal on the table every night. Sometimes fancy and sometimes not, but it was always delicious, nutritious, and it made him feel ambitious (but not ambitious enough to do the dishes!). In fact, he had a friend named Justin, who I used to call Justin Time, because he showed up at our house right around dinner time, several times a week.


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## Zagut (Sep 4, 2014)

It's stressful to feed yourself and others?

Sorry but I must be an old fart and don't understand stress in this day and age.

I see where money and/or lack thereof can be a concern. But as a teacher in a business class I took eons ago said. "Chicken necks and backs can be mighty tasty when they need to".

Not having pot's and pans or a decent heat source is a problem. 

Sorry if this sounds cold but  what money there is should be used for the basics. How many months of the latest and greatest smart phone bill would it take to buy a set of pots and pans at Wallyworld.  Last time I checked a cheap set was around $39.95. Yes you need a stove to use them but even a cheap hotplate can be had for $50.00. Yes not the best but serviceable.

And a sharp knife? Steel+stone+a few minutes =sharp knife.

Whiny, picky, and ungrateful eaters?

Here I am again showing what an old fart I am.
As my father used to say "Well if you don't like it you don't have to eat it. This is what I'm providing for you so take it or go get your own". Let me tell you. Lot's of things tasted just fine after that. 

Yes I understand that many folks don't view cooking as enjoyable as those who tend to frequent cooking boards such as DC. But to see feeding yourself and yours as a burden and stressful is beyond me. Eating out is one thing but to claim it's all you can do is another. 

Guess all the above says I don't buy the premise of the article.

Well you did ask "What do you think?"


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## Aunt Bea (Sep 4, 2014)

IMO if you do a little advance planning and preparation getting dinner on the table is no big deal. For me it would take more time and cause more aggravation to swing into the grocery store during rush hour to pick up a rotisserie chicken, salad, chips and dessert than it does to go home and put something together from a well stocked kitchen.

I also admit it depends on the people involved.  If you are feeding a family then it should be all hands on deck without any fuss.  Even little kids can put the napkins on the table or perform some other small chore. Delegate and let them develop their own way of doing things, don't micro manage the troops.  If they screw it up they will have another chance to get it right tomorrow! 

I suppose another option would be for everyone in the house to just microwave a frozen meal or fix a bowl of cereal and eat it in their rooms in front of the computer while watching a rerun of the Walton's.


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## taxlady (Sep 4, 2014)

Aunt Bea said:


> IMO if you do a little advance planning and preparation getting dinner on the table is no big deal. For me it would take more time and cause more aggravation to swing into the grocery store during rush hour to pick up a rotisserie chicken, salad, chips and dessert than it does to go home and put something together from a well stocked kitchen.
> 
> I also admit it depends on the people involved.  If you are feeding a family then it should be all hands on deck without any fuss.  Even little kids can put the napkins on the table or perform some other small chore. Delegate and let them develop their own way of doing things, don't micro manage the troops.  If they screw it up they will have another chance to get it right tomorrow!
> 
> I suppose another option would be for everyone in the house to just microwave a frozen meal or fix a bowl of cereal and eat it in their rooms in front of the computer while watching a rerun of the Walton's.


I like your thinking AB.


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## Zhizara (Sep 4, 2014)

Zagut, I'm an old fart too, but I see the difficulty where someone hasn't learned to cook.

Some people don't even get the basics, and then, mealtime becomes a difficult challenge, plus dinnertime whiney (tired) kids who don't feel they're getting enough attention.


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## Rocklobster (Sep 4, 2014)

She is obviously not in to it, for whatever reasons. She should stop telling others how to think......that's what I think...


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## Rocklobster (Sep 4, 2014)

I think it is important that we, as a culture, strive to have an ideology that promotes, family interaction, healthy eating and knowledge of our food from farm to table. 
I think it is much more important than extracurricular activities(who is going to Jazz dance after they turn 19?), hanging with friends. And just as important as school, IMHO.  Knowledge of food, its origins and preparations, how to get the best you can afford, is a life skill that people will need to survive for the rest of their lives.  Kids need to grow up seeing that at home to realize how easy it is if you show interest and apply a little bit of effort.


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## Zagut (Sep 4, 2014)

Zhizara said:


> Zagut, I'm an old fart too, but I see the difficulty where someone hasn't learned to cook.
> 
> Some people don't even get the basics, and then, mealtime becomes a difficult challenge, plus dinnertime whiney (tired) kids who don't feel they're getting enough attention.


 
I understand not everyone can cook tasty meals but isn't cooking a rather basic skill?

Baby steps at first and after a few fall downs it becomes easier.

Isn't that how we learn?

Microwave Hotdogs as an example. I make them a lot when I want quick eats. Yes not Gourmet (A point that can be disputed) but not difficult to make. Chop an onion, add mustard or whatever you desire. I usually just use a slice of bread so buns aren't required. Why go out and expend monies needed for other basics in life when it can be done at home? I won't add the value of family time.

Aunt Bea, Why would they be watching the Walton's when they could be viewing reruns of Gilligans Island, McHales Navy, or Andy Griffith instead? 

Rocklobster,


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## Aunt Bea (Sep 4, 2014)

Zagut said:


> .
> 
> Aunt Bea, Why would they be watching the Walton's when they could be viewing reruns of Gilligans Island, McHales Navy, or Andy Griffith instead?



I'm afraid I have not kept up with modern television.  

Feel free to watch whatever you like, just remember to delete your browsing history!


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## forty_caliber (Sep 4, 2014)

Interesting topic.  Much of the article draws contrasts based on income.  In one passage the author compared a family living in a hotel room to a middle class home.  To me there are more things than being unable to cook a meal for your family wrong with that picture. 

It's more about choices and priorities.  I cook for the family on a daily basis, work a full time job and so does Mrs 40.   Stress is going to enter your life from one vector or another no matter what you do.  Each of us has to learn to make lemonade with life's lemons in their own way.

.40


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## Andy M. (Sep 4, 2014)

I'm a firm believer that you make time for the things you want to do.  If you have "no time to cook a family dinner", it's because you've decided you'd rather do something else.


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## Steve Kroll (Sep 4, 2014)

My first thought after reading the article is that, if true, we've developed into a culture of crybabies. But I also have to wonder where they found some of these people. It's like the author  and researchers purposely sought out the worst families they could find.

My wife and I have always worked full time jobs. As the primary cook, I don't recall ever feeling stress about putting a meal on the table. We also made sure we sat down and ate together as a family every night, without disruption from television, gameboys, or cell phones. I don't think we were alone.

It wasn't always "The Waltons," but it certainly wasn't anything like some of the scenarios described, either.

And anyone who cared to complain about the meal was more than welcome to help themselves to peanut butter and bread in the cupboard.


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## Cheryl J (Sep 4, 2014)

Interesting article. I thought this was a little harsh, though...
".....it's expensive and time-consuming and often done for a *bunch of ingrates who would rather just be eating fast food anyway."  *

My daughter could be that mom in the pic. A baby on one hip, the oldest one that she's letting help in the kitchen, and the middle one is the one to get the plastic plates on their little table. They're ages 1, 3, and 5 and they can definitely afford them , but feeding them is a challenge right now. The oldest loves veggies but isn't a fan of proteins, the middle loves proteins but not a fan of veggies, and the littlest little is, well, one year old and just getting used to non-mashed food as he gets more teeth.  Hubby is a firefighter and often gone for several days at a time. She has help come in one full day once a week for some relief, and spends it re-grouping, getting caught up on laundry, and spending time with her best friend. 

So yes, she does choose to spend some of that time doing something else. 

She does her best, and is trying to stay away from the hype that says she needs to prepare a well rounded meal every single day. They have their chicken nuggets days, cereal for dinner, and an occasional pizza delivered like most everyone else does. It's not going to hurt as long as it's not every day.  

I got on a roll here, but you asked what I thought.


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## CWS4322 (Sep 5, 2014)

My parents both worked full-time running their own businesses. To have take out pizza or TV dinners was a TREAT for us. My mother never enjoyed cooking. My father never learned to cook. From the time I was in 9th grade, I was in charge of making supper (once I got home from swim/ski/track practice). Growing up, even with my brothers' hockey schedules and my swim/ski/track schedules, we sat down and ate together. Picky eater? Not allowed. Once my parents bought the restaurant, we'd either gather there after our various after school activities or my mom would bring home meals from the restaurant. Convenience? Yes, there are convenience foods but although I was craving KFC tonight (a craving I have about every 3 years), I opted to dress some so sweet, tender cabbage from the garden.


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## Cooking Goddess (Sep 5, 2014)

Yup Cheryl, you and Steve are right. Whiny baby brats. And I'm talking about the adults. 

I think part of the problem falls on the shoulders of all those cooking shows that are so popular. In half an hour the chef-host prepares a tasty entry, which was preceded by a gourmet quality appetizer and is followed by a dessert worthy of an upscale restaurant's dessert cart.  Home cooks are sometimes made to feel ashamed if they reach for dry pasta, a jar of sauce, and those pre-cooked chicken sausages.

The "fresh produce costs too much" has been disproved too. If you buy in-season you can find filling veggies and fruits that will cost less than those convenience foods.

And picky eaters? Don't dance around their taste buds! I never cooked special meals for either of our kids. They too had a PB&J option. When they got older they were also welcome to reheat any leftover that they found to their liking in the refrigerator after they tried the new food under the "two bites" rule. There aren't many foods either of our kids turn their noses up at. They could give Andrew Zimmern a run for him money.


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## buckytom (Sep 5, 2014)

preaching to the choir gets expected results. 

they lost me with the straw man argument of socio-economic distress.

whatever happened to "parenting is a sacrifice, so..." 

my dad never ended that statement. but i've come to  realize the second half doesn't have words. it's in your heart.


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## Cheryl J (Sep 5, 2014)

I could never understand the 'fresh produce costs too much' either. (as compared to packaged frozen meals or fast food). I went through a period many years ago when I was so poor I couldn't afford anything but a fresh veggie and dried bean soup. Necessity is the mother of invention.


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## Cheryl J (Sep 5, 2014)

buckytom said:


> preaching to the choir gets expected results.
> 
> they lost me with the straw man argument of socio-economic distress.
> 
> ...


 
Like.


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## Addie (Sep 5, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> Just about everything you do generates some level of stress.
> 
> I think it depends on the circumstances and the individuals.  Some men/women may take great pleasure from cooking and find it relaxing or even fulfilling.  Others will hate it and do anything to avoid cooking.  We personally appreciate the latter as that gave SO an income for many years.
> 
> Home cooking dinner and eating together as a family is the best way to go IMHO, although it's not always possible in today's world.



I remember sitting on the front steps with my friends and come three o'clock in the afternoon, the moaning would start. "I am going to have to go in and start supper pretty soon. I have no idea what I am going to make." (During the stay-at-home Moms era.) I gave up trying to figure out why they hated it so much. I loved cooking. Had ever since as a child. But when I became a single mother, I chose to go to work and only received the kids SS checks from their father's account. Then by the time Poo came along, I found myself in the same situation again. I would rush home after work to make sure I got a hot meal on the table for him. The older kids were out of the home and on their own. Now shopping and buying became a chore. Never enough money, never enough time for grocery shopping. It wasn't until he was safely married that I felt that struggle lift. I now had only myself to care for. Or so I thought. My youngest daughter had five children and was always in need of a care package of groceries. And she was working plus receiving support from the father. So I was still shopping for a full size family plus myself. 

It just seemed that struggling to buy groceries has always been a never ending battle. But finally, FINALLY, do you hear me? I shop and feed only myself. And sometimes I make something special for the kids. But I don't think it has ever been a burden.


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## CWS4322 (Sep 5, 2014)

Addie said:


> I remember sitting on the front steps with my friends and come three o'clock in the afternoon, the moaning would start. "I am going to have to go in and start supper pretty soon. I have no idea what I am going to make."


After my parents sold their businesses, my mom returned to work 9-5 as a nurse. She worked for a couple of surgeons in a clinic and had to be on call a couple of nights a week. We lived about 5 minutes out-of-town in a mini-subdivision (there were 20 houses on 1 acre lots). Despite having a 7-meal rotation schedule, she'd get home around 5:15, walk to the fridge, open it, and exclaim "I have no idea what we are having for supper tonight!" That image is firmly engrained in my mind. When I talk to her on the phone (if it is before 4:00 p.m.), despite the fact she no longer is in charge of meal preparation, planning, or grocery shopping, she still says that. In her more lucid moments, she has confided that she is so glad she no longer has to cook, she hated it. In even more lucid moments when I'm there, she will select the recipe she wants me to make. It is something I try to do--engage her in the meal planning and get her to make the salad (with coaching and lots of help). I also get her to set the table. Our roles have been reversed. As an 8-yr. old child, I had to make the salad and set the table (to this day, I have to think about on which side the forks go being a lefty). And, making lettuce salad is my least favourite activity in the kitchen.


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## taxlady (Sep 6, 2014)

Here's an interesting rebuttal to that article: 'Slate' Criticizes the 'Home-Cooked Family Dinner': Joel Salatin Responds - Real Food - MOTHER EARTH NEWS


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## Cooking Goddess (Sep 6, 2014)

Great article taxy! It's a verbal smack up-side the head to the author of the Slate article. 

I loved my Mother! I subscribed right about the time they first started publishing it and got it for years. Saved every issue and still had them in boxes in the "attic" space, accessible via pull-down steps in the garage. I ended up letting them go when we moved from OH to MA. I still remember much of what I learned from them, it was interesting whether I've been able to apply that knowledge or not.


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## CWS4322 (Sep 6, 2014)

taxlady said:


> Here's an interesting rebuttal to that article: 'Slate' Criticizes the 'Home-Cooked Family Dinner': Joel Salatin Responds - Real Food - MOTHER EARTH NEWS


+1 although, I do empathize with those who have to decide if the last $20 before the next pay check goes for food or gas in the car to get to work and the person doesn't have a cell phone, satellite TV, doesn't smoke, drink, go through drive through, etc., and works full-time at a minimum wage job without benefits and lives in subsidized housing, doesn't get any help from the dead-beat ex. My MIL raised a son who earned a Ph.D. working a minimum wage job. She owned her own home, albeit a very small one, and the DH did not want for anything. She received neither child support nor alimony from the DH's father (they divorced when the DH was 2). How she did it, I have no idea, but she did it. And, when she died in May (from ovarian cancer--doctor stopped ordering PAP smears after she went through menopause...she did not have to die from ovarian cancer)--she had $~20K in the bank--even though she was only receiving the basic government pension and no pension from her employer. She always planted a garden and the DH can't remember eating processed food growing up.


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## taxlady (Sep 6, 2014)

Cooking Goddess said:


> Great article taxy! It's a verbal smack up-side the head to the author of the Slate article.
> 
> I loved my Mother! I subscribed right about the time they first started publishing it and got it for years. Saved every issue and still had them in boxes in the "attic" space, accessible via pull-down steps in the garage. I ended up letting them go when we moved from OH to MA. I still remember much of what I learned from them, it was interesting whether I've been able to apply that knowledge or not.


I subscribed to them in the mid '70s. Then they had a fiasco with encouraging some farm family to use sewage sludge as organic fertilizer. The soil was ruined and the family had to sell the farm.


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## Addie (Sep 6, 2014)

taxlady said:


> I subscribed to them in the mid '70s. Then they had a fiasco with encouraging some farm family to use sewage sludge as organic fertilizer. The soil was ruined and the family had to sell the farm.



When they were building the Big Dig here in Boston, they were also overhauling our sewage plant out at Deer Island. Today, the home gardener (mostly) can go out to Deer Island and get a bagful of free processed sewage waste. It has been cleaned and processed to the point that all harmful chemicals have been removed and is now safe to be used for growing your vegetables in it. When I saw the maintenance help turning the soil on the plots here, I also saw a pile of top soil that had been purchased from Home Depot. I mentioned the free fertilizer available out at Deer Island. A couple of days later, I saw a pile of bags from there. BTW, they also tell us that the end water from the process is good enough to drink. I am going to pass on that one.


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## Aunt Bea (Sep 6, 2014)

Cooking Goddess said:


> Great article taxy! It's a verbal smack up-side the head to the author of the Slate article.
> 
> I loved my Mother! I subscribed right about the time they first started publishing it and got it for years. Saved every issue and still had them in boxes in the "attic" space, accessible via pull-down steps in the garage. I ended up letting them go when we moved from OH to MA. I still remember much of what I learned from them, it was interesting whether I've been able to apply that knowledge or not.



I had a complete set of TMEN including the first one with the newsprint cover.  I finally gave them to an aspiring young back to the lander.  I didn't really need them I more or less memorized them.


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## bakechef (Sep 6, 2014)

We live in a time where people don't have to learn to cook, as long as you can run a microwave you can put something other than fast food on the table.

We also live in a time where we are surrounded by images and marketing showing how cooking for your family SHOULD be done, which leaves many parents feeling inferior (this isn't exactly new).  

What is the right thing to feed your family?  Is the low carb fad the right thing?  Is the gluten free fad the right thing, should I be feeding my family a paleo diet?  Am I a failure if I pick the wrong fad diet?

All of this coupled with more households having both parents working and kids being involved in EVERYTHING, it's no wonder that parents take the easy route.  Heck I only have to feed Rob and some nights after working 8-9 hours and going to the gym, the though of making food and cleaning up doesn't sound appealing at all.  Throw in kids and I'd want to run for the hills!

I'm not making excuses for people, many handle dinner just fine.  But when this is brought up on a board with people who have a passion for cooking and are very willing to make time for it, you'll not really get a realistic perspective.


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## Aunt Bea (Sep 6, 2014)

I figure you should be able to feed your family at least as well as you are able to feed yourself.  It may mean a gourmet meal every night in some homes and Kraft macaroni and cheese or a hot dog in others.

I agree some nights the last thing any of us wants to do is cook.  Most folks have one or two items that they can pull together on those nights.  The old standby grilled cheese with a bowl or tomato soup, a BLT, scrambled eggs etc...

I was lucky, I grew up in a home with great food.  I have some friends who grew up in homes where the best meal was fish sticks, corn and applesauce.  Those friends have just as many good memories as I do, they just crave different things than I do! 

To me the important thing is to get together around the table and share a common experience.


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## taxlady (Sep 6, 2014)

Good points BC.


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## Zagut (Sep 6, 2014)

bakechef said:


> We live in a time where people don't have to learn to cook, as long as you can run a microwave you can put something other than fast food on the table.
> 
> We also live in a time where we are surrounded by images and marketing showing how cooking for your family SHOULD be done, which leaves many parents feeling inferior (this isn't exactly new).
> 
> ...


 
I think the perspective here is rather realistic. (I know I shouldn't think because I get in trouble whenever I do) This site is rather diverse when it comes to cooking techniques and ingredients.

Tossing something in the microwave is cooking and I do it for several things. Hot Dogs & Frozen Veggies come to mind. Quick, Easy and cheaper then ordering out. I do this mainly when I simply don't feel like cooking or am pressed for time. 

Now as far as cleaning up goes. I never want to do that.  I'm heading for the hill also when it's time to clean up. But some things in life we have to deal with. 

Fad diets are just that. Fads. If being into the latest and greatest is what you want then that's fine. But don't expect me to feel sorry for you because you won't eat X because it isn't the "right" thing to do.

Sorry I can't but that a basic require of life like feeding you & yours is stressful and unreasonably expensive. TL's like say's much of what I'd say but much better then I can say it.


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## Addie (Sep 6, 2014)

When I worked at S&W, the Engineering Company, one of my duties was to serve the panel from the Nuclear Energy Commission. Plus my regular duties. Always a harrowing day. This was a regular thing on a monthly basis. Yet I would rush home exhausted to get a hot meal on the table for Poo. I didn't slow down until he was about 15 years old. That is when I got rid of the guilt. I knew I was doing the best I could. Very easily I adopted the attitude of "So sue me!" 

My neighbors used to accuse me of spoiling Poo. My answer that finally shut them up was, "Who do you want me to spoil? Your kids?" I was really tired of being criticized for doing my best. You think you can do better, than take my kid and you raise him.


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef (Sep 6, 2014)

Things are different today, I hear every mother say, cooking fresh food for her husband's such a drag, so she buys an instant cake and she burns a frozen steak, and goes running for the shelter of a mother's little helper and two help her on her way, get her through her busy day


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## Addie (Sep 6, 2014)

Sir_Loin_of_Beef said:


> Things are different today, *I hear every mother say, cooking fresh food for her husband's such a drag*, so she buys an instant cake and she burns a frozen steak, and goes running for the shelter of a mother's little helper and two help her on her way, get her through her busy day



You hear this from every mother? What kind of neighborhood do you live in? Are there no happy folks there at all?


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## Zagut (Sep 6, 2014)

Addie said:


> You hear this from every mother? What kind of neighborhood do you live in? Are there no happy folks there at all?


 
Time and place have much to do with understanding.

As do 60's song lyrics.


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## taxlady (Sep 6, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfGYSHy1jQs


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## Addie (Sep 6, 2014)

Zagut said:


> Time and place have much to do with understanding.
> 
> As do 60's song lyrics.



I am afraid you have completely lost me. When it comes to songs of that era, I have no clue. I was too busy with a houseful of kids to be listening to music.


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## Zagut (Sep 6, 2014)

Addie said:


> I am afraid you have completely lost me. When it comes to songs of that era, I have no clue. I was too busy with a houseful of kids to be listening to music.


 
Addie, I'm lost 99.9% of the time. 

Click TL's link to get up to date.


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## GotGarlic (Sep 6, 2014)

taxlady said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfGYSHy1jQs



Addie! Famous Rolling Stones song!


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## Addie (Sep 6, 2014)

Sorry, I was never part of that world. The only time I ever took a mind altering drug was the day I got news that my daughter had brain cancer. I ask for one little pill and they gave me three. I still have two. If I ever find them, they will be going in the trash.


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## Zagut (Sep 6, 2014)

Mind altering drugs and music are two separate things.

One has nothing to do with the other.

You didn't listen to the Stones is cool.

Not all that did used mind altering drugs.


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## Cooking Goddess (Sep 7, 2014)

Aunt Bea said:


> ...To me the important thing is to get together around the table and share a common experience.


^This^  If it's Beef Wellington from scratch, or beans from a can along side nuked hot dogs, as long as you sit together and share your day it is a successful dining event.


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## Cooking Goddess (Sep 7, 2014)

Although I was more of a Beatles, and then folk music, sort of person, even I recognized the words as a Rolling Stone song Zagut. Addie, you don't have to give up music even when you have a house full of kids. I listened to the kids music the entire time they were growing up and at home. Had a few song meanings explained to me by my son once or twice (you mean "you got to keep 'em separated" is about GANGS?  ) but we've always been surrounded by music in our house. Like a soundtrack to life. I grew up listening to Mom's 8-tracks playing Engelbert Humperdink and Frank Sinatra, and now I'll still listen to the pop stations just to find out what today's kids like. Well, unless it's Justin Beiber.  Then I pop in my own CD.


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## buckytom (Sep 7, 2014)

it's a little like food. ya gotta listen to/play a little of* all* kinds of music, and not make a big deal about the ones they like and you don't, and vice versa.
















or, you can always make them eat food they hate until they like your music. 



both work.


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## Cooking Goddess (Sep 7, 2014)

bucky, to this day I can tell it's an Alice in Chains song as soon as it starts. They're all in a minor key, I swear!


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## buckytom (Sep 7, 2014)

lol, yeah. sorta like jewish music.

hmm, i don't think i've ever drawn that parallel in my mind before. 

uh oh, the next time i'm in temple i might do this:


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## Addie (Sep 7, 2014)

Four kids had their own radio/record player. So the rule was you each use your headphones or take it outside. Having four different songs blasting throughout the house was not conducive to a peaceful home. The large stereo was in the living room and I would use that when the kids were in school. I usually played classical music. When the kids came home, I shut it off. The same rule applied to me and to them. Peace and quiet. I had a small radio that sat on the kitchen table. That I used for "no school" alerts. That is where I got my news and weather at five o'clock while making supper. That got shut off during the meal. Supper was served at six o'clock. Twice a day they all sat at the table as a family. Breakfast and supper. Breakfast was always a little chaotic and supper was pure chaos. In the morning at the table it was always, "Ma have you seen  my ...., seen my school books? etc. Supper was when they all tried to talk at once about there day. I enjoyed our times during supper. Whenever my kids get together, they still talk about the food and conversations at the supper table. A lot of times one of them would have a friend come for supper. There was always enough for one more. 

Time to clean up the kitchen. The boys as well as the girls had their appointed days. Mostly clean the table and scrape the dishes. I did the washing and drying. Time for homework. They sat around the kitchen table while I washed the dishes. I was there to help them if they needed it. Then Spike got involved in Little League. He gulped his food and always made a deal with his sister to do his job. Out the door he would fly. He also got a job after school, so he began to get some leeway from the rules. He would ask me what was for supper. If there was spinach, he would bring home a couple of bags and I would cook them just for him. He was working in a small grocery store delivering groceries, cleaning the store, etc. The other kids had afterschool activities also. Girl Scouts. The Pirate was the one the girls used for their child care badge. He loved it. My two girls were both scouts and in the troop together. 

Sundays were always a little crazy. That is the day I stripped the bed and did any laundry that didn't get done during the week. They had a choice. Get up, get dressed and go to Sunday School, or stay home and help with the laundry. They all opted for Sunday School. 

Kids wandering in and out, an eight room apartment to clean, the  phone ringing, activities to attend, meals to make, etc. No I simply didn't have time to listen to the music of my kids. They would tell me of a great new song that just came out. I would tell them to hum it for me. If you can't hum it, then it isn't music and I don't want to hear it. Don't believe me? Try humming rap.


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## buckytom (Sep 7, 2014)

hmm, hm hmm,

hm, hm, hm, hmm.

yo mother hummers.. yoooooooooooo!

trow yo hummers in the ayuh like you just don't kayuh..

hm, hm hmm...





yeah, doesn't work fo shizzle, addie.


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## Addie (Sep 7, 2014)

buckytom said:


> hmm, hm hmm,
> 
> hm, hm, hm, hmm.
> 
> ...



I want to meet the couple that chose that as their song for their first dance at the wedding. Then I want to meet the parents if you can find out where they are hiding.


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## Cooking Goddess (Sep 7, 2014)

Same can be said for "modern Jazz" Addie, that you said about rap. Had that argument with a DJ friend who loved Jazz. I told him if I couldn't find a melody to hum it wasn't music, it was noise.

We had only two kids, but I did a lot of driving with one (took Goober to and from school a lot his freshman year when Dad was traveling - he/we had picked a school that was on the route and only a mile from Grandma's, but 25 miles from our home!) and listened to a LOT of his music that year. Loverly was in scouts and high school wrestling. She didn't wrestle, she was the statistician! Got to boss the boys around. But we'd listen to her stuff in the car too.

I had a source of music on the kitchen counter in each house. I grew up with my Mom and her radio in the kitchen. Now that I have a cell phone that can stream stations from just about anywhere I have music or sports talk in my pocket - sometimes literally!


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## Addie (Sep 7, 2014)

We never had a car. Everything we needed or wanted to do was right in walking distance. Their school was right around the corner. The Italian bakery one block away. Every time I had baby in a carriage, I would stop at a store, go in for a quick shop and put the packages in the carriage. Joe the Pushcart was two door away for all the fresh veggies. The fish monger only a block away. And the First National Store was across the street. There were always kids there with their red wagons willing to bring your groceries home for a quarter. And we still have one of the best transit systems in the country. Wait ten minutes and a bus comes along that will take you to a subway that extends more than 50 miles outside of Boston. All the way to Rhode Island and New Hampshire and Maine. The buses stop at every corner. The Pirate was six years old and knew how to use the system. I took them into Boston Common to see the Dairy Show. We came home and two days later I get a call from the police. They had The Pirate in hand. He had gone back into to Boston to see the Dairy Show again. They noticed he was alone. He got caught trying to sneak into the subway without any money so he could come home. None of my neighbors had cars. For those folks who did have one, they were always called "gas asses." 

We didn't need a car. My kids got an education of living and learning how to get along using your own intelligence. My grandchildren? They have no idea how to use the transit system. I once took my granddaughter on the subway to go to a mall in the next town. She was about five. She still remembers it, but sees it as a trip of terror. She was scared to death because there were strangers on the train. Sad!


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef (Sep 8, 2014)

Addie said:


> I once took my granddaughter on the subway to go to a mall in the next town. She was about five. She still remembers it, but sees it as a trip of terror. She was scared to death because there were strangers on the train. Sad!


 
Which reminds me of another song: The Man Who Never Returned

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh994JcEfkI


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## LPBeier (Sep 8, 2014)

My mother worked from the time I was 12 until after I left home.  She had always made EVERYTHING from scratch before that and when she went to work with my Dad in their pharmacy things changed only a little.  She only made bread once a week instead of twice and augmented it with store-bought, usually for sandwiches for all of us.  She did less canning and freezing, but cookies, cakes, muffins, etc. were still home baked and she taught me how to do it to help out.

I also started helping with a lot of dinners by the time I was 13 I think.  First they were just simple things, but I could make a mean beef stew and wasn't bad at meatloaf or shake & bake pork chops either!

My mother loved to cook and even at her busiest I never saw it stress her.  I think that is where I got my passion from.  She used to say cooking and baking were her medicine and I can totally relate.  If I make something we can't eat like cookies or cake, TB KNOWS I had a tough day - and it usually goes to his work the next day or next door.

I have never been stressed about balancing work and cooking, but that is probably because for the last 20 years work WAS cooking!  At busy times I would just make extra for our meals!


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## Addie (Sep 8, 2014)

Originally _"The Man Who Never Returned"_ was a political song The present politician raised the price of the subway from five cents to ten. The man whose campaign wrote and was using that song lost the election. Our subway and bus passes now are called "Charlie Cards" in honor of that song. And the price has gone up quite a bit since then. But we still have the cheapest transit system in the country. So I never complain when the price goes up. And I get "senior discount". Children under a certain age go free, school children have a discount and blind folks with a cane or dog, also go free. Disabled have a discount also. Considering the distance you can travel, it is a real bargain. Monthly passes are also sold at a discount.


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