# How to bake a fish brown and yet not cause it to be dry



## cookee (Feb 13, 2008)

how do you bake a fish in the oven till light brown and yet not cause it to lose its moisture?

have tried pan frying it first till slightly brown and then baking it however its still dry after finish


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## jennyema (Feb 13, 2008)

Are you breading it?

The key to moist fish is to not overcook it.  It needs to be cooked just until done and not a second more.


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## buckytom (Feb 13, 2008)

cookee, top it with a compound butter (basil dill is my fave) and bake at fairly high temp, around 400 or higher.

if you have a good broiler, pop it under there instead of the oven.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 13, 2008)

What kind of fish are you using? If it's too thin (i.e., tilapia, flounder), baking won't brown it - it will always finish cooking before it browns. I would just pan-fry these for a few minutes on each side. 

If it's a thicker piece of fish - like salmon, tuna, swordfish, etc. - it can be broiled till browned, especially if it has a breadcrumb crust. Cook's Illustrated has a free recipe online for broiled salmon: Sophisticated Salmon for Two

HTH.


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## buckytom (Feb 13, 2008)

good point gg. 

thin filets won't brown that well. they're best breaded and baked/fried, or just plainly pan fried. you could put them under a broiler, but they'd have to be on the closest position to the flame.


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## kitchenelf (Feb 13, 2008)

Maybe all you need to do is pan fry it with no time in the oven.  Always start with your presentation side down.  You can see it cook from the bottom up.  Once it's almost half way cooked up turn over and do the same thing.  Tent with a piece of foil and it will finish cooking.  Very few times do I have to actually finish a piece of fish in the oven.  If I am baking a fish I do it from start to finish and don't really expect it to be browned like you get from a skillet.


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## Maverick2272 (Feb 13, 2008)

You need the appropriate fish for the appropriate cooking method. I grew up on pan fish and it is still my preferred method, but I can't wait until summer try a recipe given me here that calls for it wrapped in horseradish leaves...
Thin fillets for pan frying, thicker ones can be baked. Some with butter and herbs and some drizzled with EVOO and herbs, maybe some zest.


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## VeraBlue (Feb 13, 2008)

The best thing you can do is pan sear it on a very high heat.  Get your pan very hot, then add your fat (butter, olive oil, vegetable oil), as soon as the fat is hot (mere seconds), add you fish.  It will instantly be browned and crisped, sealing in the juices.  At that point, you can finish it in the oven, which has already been preheated.  Depending on the size of your fish, it could befinished in 5 minutes to 15 minutes.


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## cookee (Feb 14, 2008)

*fishy*

hi all thanks.

i have tried salmon and pollock. I too read in a cook book somewhere that pan frying it to seal the juices and popping in the oven will keep the moist in. However still no success.. Maybe i lack butter like some of you guys mentioned here? I put in the oven clean with no butter.

or maybe the cuts i use are too thin. Will try again soon!


i also tried coating the pollock with rice flour and some bread crumbs and small squid fine chopped pieces and deep frying it...really good fish.


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## jennyema (Feb 14, 2008)

Searing does not seal in juices-- that's a kitchen myth -- but still is a good method of cooking fish and other proteins.


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## VeraBlue (Feb 14, 2008)

jennyema said:


> Searing does not seal in juices-- that's a kitchen myth -- but still is a good method of cooking fish and other proteins.


 
Beg to differ.....Searing the outer flesh creates a crust, holding in the juices.    Not sure where you got your information from, but searing to hold in juices is most asuredly not a myth.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 14, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> Beg to differ.....Searing the outer flesh creates a crust, holding in the juices.    Not sure where you got your information from, but searing to hold in juices is most asuredly not a myth.



Alton Brown did an experiment and his conclusion was that it is a myth: http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/Season8/myths/myth_smashers.htm


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## cookee (Feb 14, 2008)

hmm...didn't know that its regarded as a kitchen myth!


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## VeraBlue (Feb 14, 2008)

GotGarlic said:


> Alton Brown did an experiment and his conclusion was that it is a myth: http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/Season8/myths/myth_smashers.htm


Alton Brown is not the be all and end all of cooking.  I trust what I do in my own kitchens, day in and day out.  It hasn't disappointed me, yet.


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## buckytom (Feb 14, 2008)

the way that i've heard it, searing helps to hold in juices by driving them inward, not really from forming a seal on the surface.

it makes sense that by heating meat, you're agitating the molecules of moisture which makes them move. i'd guess some inward, some outward.

in accordance with alton's (faulty) experiment, some of the moisture near the surface is lost, but then some of it would be driven deeper too, right? so searing does work, but not the way commonly thought.





or i could be wrong.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 14, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> Alton Brown is not the be all and end all of cooking.  I trust what I do in my own kitchens, day in and day out.  It hasn't disappointed me, yet.



No, of course not. He's not the only one who has debunked this myth, though. I don't know what you would consider an authority, so here are a couple of sources:

Searing & Browning Foods - Food Reference (dated a few years before Alton's experiment)


The universe at home - Epicure - www.theage.com.au


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## cookee (Feb 14, 2008)

yes its confusing for me today too...before have heard from quite a few that searing before oven seals in the moisture.

how long do you usually put a fish pieces of say around 300grms to 400grms about 1.5cm to 2cm thick in an oven? And how hot in the oven? ( if there is searing and if there is no searing)


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## Maverick2272 (Feb 14, 2008)

buckytom said:


> the way that i've heard it, searing helps to hold in juices by driving them inward, not really from forming a seal on the surface.



That is the way I heard it as well. It does not seal in the juices, it _helps_ to seal in the juices. For me this means it slows down how fast the juices exit allowing you to get it cooked with more juices left in it at the end.

But mostly its the taste!


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## archiduc (Feb 14, 2008)

Hi All,
This thread seem to have have developed somewhat. Is it about cooking fish or is it about browning or is it about both?

First, browning - browning is a PROCESS which, when applied to meat. fish, poultry, game and bread, results in the MAILLARD reaction. This is a reaction between the natural sugars present and the proteins, which on the addition of heat result in a browned exterior. 

This result may be achieved by:
- sautéeing at high heat - e.g. browning chicken for Chicken Marengo or a Venison Braise;
- grilling or broiling - e.g., cooking a Dover Sole;
- deep fat frying - e.g., dipping whitebait in flour and frying;
- roasting - e.g., roasting a forerib of beef;
- searing a joint - e.g., leg of lamb prior to raosting or slow roasting;
- stir-fry - e.g., beef with asparagus, ginger and spring onion.

If, after browning, liquid is added, as is the case in Boeuf Bourguinonne, the "crust" achieved in browning dissolves over time to colour and/or thicken the dish.

Now, one final way of achiveing a dish that is in appearance is brown is by "red cooking", ie., cooking in soy sauce.

The original question was about cooking fish in the oven and achieving a "browned" result at the end of the cooking process.The muscle fibres of fish are very short and cook very quickly in comparison with those of all but the most tender of cuts of meat, e.g., filet mignon, fillet steak. In addition, there is vey little connective tissue in fish, unlike most meat cuts, which means that the fish will fall apart/dry out very quickly if overcooked. Consequently individual portions of fish should be browned, quickly using the skin as the medium/vehicle/part which is to be browned by pan frying before finishing either in the oven or on a reduced heat if using the top of the stove/cooker.

I think we need to know more about what DISH Cookee is trying to create. I appreciate that Cookee has mentioned specific weights/sizes etc., but if I go back to the previous page I`ll lose all that I`ve written thus far - I know this because I`ve done it twice already. It is possible that the recipe that Cookee is trying to make would be improved if it was not browned but finsihed with brown butter/beuree noisette just before serving.

OK, I appreciate that I`ve probably not answered anyone`s question(s) but I would like to hear from Cookee again regarding what dish are you wanting to make - is it for a commercial kitchen or a domestic situation. There is a bit of me that says the answer is much more simple than the original question.

Looking forward to hearing from you,
Archiduc


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## cookee (Feb 15, 2008)

hi .... i am trying to bake fish fillet pieces salmon and pollock in the oven but it always turns out dry. Have tried searing it on both sides before baking but still not too good.

but maybe my searing isn't done well enough.....

will be trying out some of the suggestions here soon. Its a domestic situation.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 15, 2008)

To be honest, when I sear salmon in a pan, it's done enough for me and doesn't need further cooking. Maybe try skipping the baking and go right to eating


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## woodman (Feb 15, 2008)

Cookee,

VeraBlue is right.

You have to do a quick sear of the outside flesh to seal in the juices long enough to bake.

So you're actually cooking the fish using two different processes, 1.) pan frying it, first, to sear the outside, then, 2.) baking it, to thoroughly cook the inside.

Okay, now here are some important tips:

1.) Season your fish before you sear it, then put a light coat of flour over the fish. You're not trying to make a batter, you just want to cover it with enough flour to soak-up all the juices that bleed out after you season it.

Remember, you need to sear it in a frying pan with about 1/4 inch of hot oil, and if neglect to cover the meat with flour, all those juice droplets will go directly into the hot oil causing it to spit and splatter in every direction, so cover with a light coat of flour.

2.) Bake your fish until it is just barely raw when you remove it from the oven. 

Let it sit for a while so the residual heat will finish cooking the fish through. The fish should have absorbed enough heat where it will finish cooking outside the oven.

This technique works particularly well with MahiMahi.

You DON'T need to do this for ALL fish. It only works on fish that don't bake well, like the Mahi.

For what "GotGarlc" has wrote in the post above mine, you should either fry salmon, or bake it, but not both unless you've got a HUGE piece off a big fish.

Again, this doesn't work on ALL fish, but if baking causes your fish to dry out, then you might want to try it.


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## Maverick2272 (Feb 15, 2008)

You don't always have to pan sear it first. You can always wrap it in parchment paper with your favorite herbs and cook that way. Rachel Ray did one, some sort of white fish not sure what, with lemons, limes, parsley and olive oil wrapped in parchment paper and baked. Here are some others simular to that:
Fish in parchment Recipe Search Food Network

For me it just depends on the type of fish and the recipe. Some thicker cuts I bake, a lot I just pan fry and am done no baking, this summer I am trying a suggested recipe of wrapping the fish in horseradish leaves instead of the parchment paper.
Can't wait!


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## woodman (Feb 15, 2008)

One more thing...



cookee said:


> hi .... i am trying to bake fish fillet pieces salmon and pollock in the oven but it always turns out dry. Have tried searing it on both sides before baking but still not too good.
> 
> but maybe my searing isn't done well enough.....
> 
> will be trying out some of the suggestions here soon. Its a domestic situation.



You're probably cooking it too long.

I bake a salmon fillet (about 1 lb) at 400 degrees for 12-14 minutes.
You should NOT need to sear it.

Try that! 
But remember to allow it to sit for 4-5 minutes.

If it is still dry after that, then you're probably buying fish that was previously frozen. If that is the case, then there is nothing you can do about it.

That's why the best chefs always suggest buying FRESH fish.

IMO, frozen fish is only good in soup, stew, or puree into sauce; otherwise avoid it like the plague.


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## QSis (Feb 15, 2008)

GotGarlic said:


> No, of course not. He's not the only one who has debunked this myth, though. I don't know what you would consider an authority, so here are a couple of sources:
> 
> Searing & Browning Foods - Food Reference (dated a few years before Alton's experiment)
> 
> The universe at home - Epicure - www.theage.com.au


 
Yep.  Came as a surprise to me, too, when I learned about it being a myth several years ago.

Searing DOES enhance the flavor, texture and presentation, for sure!

Lee


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## forrestLyman (Feb 15, 2008)

*Bacon*

If you want to bake medallions of fish bacon is your friend. You can wrap several thin fillets together and the hot fat really helps it retain the moisture.


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## Maverick2272 (Feb 15, 2008)

forrestLyman said:


> If you want to bake medallions of fish bacon is your friend. You can wrap several thin fillets together and the hot fat really helps it retain the moisture.



Do you have a more specific recipe for that? It sounds like it could be really good!


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## buckytom (Feb 16, 2008)

i'm right behind ya, mav.

lyman, a specific recipe would be appreciated. 

i've had scallops, lobster, and shrimp wrapped in bacon, but a firm fleshed white fish (non fatty) sounds like it would work. i'm thinking monkfish, or swordfish. 



hmm, so it seems there's three, no, four methods of cooking fish to delevop a crust and not be dry.

breading and frying. best for thinner filets.

pan searing in fat (oil butter, etc.) and baking. good for thicker filets and steaks.

rubbing or topping with a fat and broiling. also good for thicker pieces.

wrapping with bacon and frying/baking. sounds good on anything.


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## forrestLyman (Feb 16, 2008)

*Pan Roasted Halibut with Applewood Smoked Bacon and Tomato Thyme Salsa*

I posted a recipe for that on culipedia.


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## ChefJune (Feb 16, 2008)

cookee said:


> yes its confusing for me today too...before have heard from quite a few that searing before oven seals in the moisture.
> 
> how long do you usually put a fish pieces of say around 300grms to 400grms about 1.5cm to 2cm thick in an oven? And how hot in the oven? ( if there is searing and if there is no searing)



Most folks think 10 minutes of cooking per inch of thickness of your fish.  But sometimes even that can result in overcooking.  Like anything else, you'll get better at cooking fish -- "get the feel" as my Momma used to say -- the more you do it.  

For thin fillets, the best way to cook them is searing them on both sides in a very hot skillet. That's all.  anything more will be overcooking them.  You can also broil them very close to the heat source for that same 2 to 3 minutes.  You can get by with even no added fat, that way. (If that is your goal)

For fillets like salmon, cod tuna and other thicker fillets, I like to brown the top side in a sauté pan for a few minutes (You will see the "cooking" begin to take place if you look at it from the side). Then I turn it over, add a bit of water or dry white vermouth to the pan, put on a lid and let it cook for the remainder of the time, based upon the thickness of those fillets.  You can also pop the pan into a 350 degree F heated oven to finish the cooking, but it works just as well on top the stove, and in the summer, you probably don't want to heat your kitchen up any more than necessary...


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## ChefJune (Feb 16, 2008)

forrestLyman said:


> If you want to bake medallions of fish bacon is your friend. You can wrap several thin fillets together and the hot fat really helps it retain the moisture.



Lots of folks want to eat fish because it's NOT fat, and bacon defeats that purpose.  As well, many folks have religious objections to eating bacon, so that won't work for everyone.


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## buckytom (Feb 16, 2008)

i'm curious: do any of the pros use a broiler or salamander? no one except me has recommended that. i prefer my thicker hunks of fish, topped with butter, this way.


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## ChefJune (Feb 16, 2008)

buckytom said:


> i'm curious: do any of the pros use a broiler or salamander? no one except me has recommended that. i prefer my thicker hunks of fish, topped with butter, this way.



sure they do!  Salamanders are great for cooking fish!  wish they were available to the home cook.  I tend to use my broiler more for the thin fillets, when I'm doing a "no fat thing."


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## buckytom (Feb 16, 2008)

thanks chefjune.

hey, i just remembered a recipe of yours that'd help here. i still have it in my "to make soon" list.

what type of fish was that that you use in your falafel crusted fish? lemme go search for your post.


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## kitchenelf (Feb 16, 2008)

Another way - take a cookie sheet with sides and place in a preheated 350 degree oven and let heat for 30 minutes.  Have your filets ready to "go" i.e., egged, floured, and bread crumbed, seasoning all, of course.  Let fish rest for about 10 or so minutes.  Once pan is hot remove carefully, give a couple swirls with olive oil to create a surface to "fry" on.  Place fish on (it should sizzle) and place back in oven for about 30 minutes or so.

Now, depending on the thickness of your fish you'll have to take it from here.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 16, 2008)

cookee said:


> yes its confusing for me today too...before have heard from quite a few that searing before oven seals in the moisture.



People repeat myths for eons - that doesn't make them true. Lots of people - probably most - still think mayonnaise makes food go bad faster, or that using a plastic cutting board is safer than using a wooden one, or that taking meat out to bring it to room temp makes it cook faster (does it make up for the time it takes to bring to room temp?). Ya gotta work those critical thinking skills


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## buckytom (Feb 16, 2008)

umm, gg, mayo _*does*_ go bad quickly. and plastic boards _*can*_ be cleaned better.


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## ChefJune (Feb 16, 2008)

GotGarlic said:


> People repeat myths for eons - that doesn't make them true. Lots of people - probably most - still think mayonnaise makes food go bad faster, or that using a plastic cutting board is safer than using a wooden one, or that taking meat out to bring it to room temp makes it cook faster (does it make up for the time it takes to bring to room temp?). Ya gotta work those critical thinking skills



those aren't myths, GG!  except that taking meat out to bring it to room temp _doesnt_ make it cook faster, it makes it cook more evenly.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 16, 2008)

buckytom said:


> umm, gg, mayo _*does*_ go bad quickly. and plastic boards _*can*_ be cleaned better.



Umm, sorry, BT, those are myths. Please don't make me post these again, or I'll have to find a woodshed of my own. 

Check out Myth #15: Food Myths 

From UC-Davis Food Safety Laboratory: Cutting Board Research :

"We soon found that disease bacteria such as these were not recoverable from wooden surfaces in a short time after they were applied, unless very large numbers were used. New plastic surfaces allowed the bacteria to persist, but were easily cleaned and disinfected. However, wooden boards that had been used and had many knife cuts acted almost the same as new wood, whereas plastic surfaces that were knife-scarred were impossible to clean and disinfect manually, especially when food residues such as chicken fat were present. Scanning electron micrographs revealed highly significant damage to plastic surfaces from knife cuts."


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## buckytom (Feb 16, 2008)

well, the problem with their myth busting lies in that they "manually cleaned" their boards. the beauty of plastic is that it can be put in a dishwasher and (mostly) disinfected, whereas a wooden board would swell and split under such harsh conditions and become useless. i've done both.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 16, 2008)

buckytom said:


> well, the problem with their myth busting lies in that they "manually cleaned" their boards. the beauty of plastic is that it can be put in a dishwasher and (mostly) disinfected, whereas a wooden board would swell and split under such harsh conditions and become useless. i've done both.



But the point is that plastic is not *better*. You don't have to put a wood board in the dishwasher to sanitize it - it essentially sanitizes itself. I can't find the reference now, but I have also read that the more a plastic board is used, the more knife cuts it sustains, and the more difficult it is to sanitize it, even in the dishwasher, because the water can't get deep enough into the cuts. 

Meanwhile, a wooden cutting board has inherent sanitizing properties. Again, I can't find the ref. now, (dangit!) but I have read that the dryness of the wood sucks the moisture out of the bacteria, killing them. Plastic doesn't do this.

I've written this here before - the way I clean my wood cutting board is to spray it with a solution of white vinegar, lemon juice and water, let sit a few minutes, then wipe any crumbs, etc., into the trash. Done. It's ready to use again and I don't have to wait for a dishwasher cycle.


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## buckytom (Feb 16, 2008)

it's not as much the force of the water in a dishwasher but the temperature, especially during the drying cycle, that sanitizes the board.

wooden boards are safe *if and only if* they are well scrubbed and then *completely dried* through. any moisture will grow bacteria, and wood is very absorbant. that's why the article mentions that you could use a  (very dangerously) use a microwave to help heat up and dry the board for sanitization.


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## cookee (Feb 22, 2008)

seems to learn quite a few tips here. First my question was if its okay to sear before bake. Interesting to read here that some suggest bake and then sear for the finishing touch.. cool.

any other good ways to cook pollock? I tried breaded and fried which taste really similar to bird's eye fish fingers!


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