# Stir Fry - oil catches fire



## pistos (Feb 17, 2014)

Hi all,

I have a nicely seasoned carbon steel wok and I've been trying to do stir fry's with some decent success.  But I've never got that sizzle, you know the really nice TZZZ!!! when I put the meat in the wok - I've been cooking on medium high because I've been afraid to set the house on fire.

I was looking at these videos today on youtube for stir fry technique:

Basic wok cooking and stir fry techniques - YouTube
Gordon Ramsay teaches How to stir fry beef - YouTube

Between these two videos and what I've read one of the key aspects of stir fry is to get the wok HOT HOT HOT!  I noticed in the video the two chefs had plenty of time after adding in the oil.  So I did a little experiment today.

I heated my wok on high until it stopped smoking.  I added oil to see how much time I had.

In the time the two chefs had to add oil, swirl it, let it smoke, and add the meat, peanut oil caught on fire for me.  I tried a second brand of peanut oil.  It smoked fully in less than a second and I removed it from heat.  I tried sunflower oil, and even though I removed it from heat about a second after adding it, it caught fire.  The best I had was plain ol' vegetable oil.  It acted much more like the grapeseed oil in the videos... had a little time before smoking and I removed from heat after about five seconds.  Based on the amount of smoke I had, I'm guess I was 1 or 2 seconds away from setting it on fire.

I seriously doubt my kitchen range is hotter than those guys' stoves.  Should I stick to grape seed oil, or just cook on medium high?  I gotta feel that there are people out there with hotter stoves that used peanut oil.

Hoping for some good advice 

Cheers!

pistos


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## pistos (Feb 17, 2014)

Incidentally, after all that, my wok is even better seasoned!!


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## Dawgluver (Feb 17, 2014)

Oh dear.  I don't think your oil should be catching fire.  Maybe stick with the grapeseed oil?  I'm surprised, peanut oil usually has a high flashpoint.  You must have a really good stove!  Kick it down a notch.


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## Andy M. (Feb 17, 2014)

Put the wok on high heat and it will start smoking shortly.  When it starts to smoke, add a couple of tablespoons of oil in the pan and wait a minute or so until it starts to smoke then add your meat and start stir-frying.  If you don't splash the oil around too much, you shouldn't have a problem.


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## CatPat (Feb 17, 2014)

Is this a gas or electric stove?

With love,
~Cat


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## cave76 (Feb 17, 2014)

If you have a Wolf or Molteni range (or one as good/expensive as that) a wok will get hot enough. Those professional chefs never use a Sears/Kenmore range.


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## pistos (Feb 17, 2014)

It's a whirlpool - electric


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## powerplantop (Feb 17, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> Put the wok on high heat and it will start smoking shortly.  When it starts to smoke, add a couple of tablespoons of oil in the pan and wait a minute or so until it starts to smoke then add your meat and start stir-frying.  If you don't splash the oil around too much, you shouldn't have a problem.



That is what I do.


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## FrankZ (Feb 18, 2014)

You could go with safflower oil as well.  High smoke point, no flavor and cheaper than grapeseed (at least around here).

Once an oil starts to smoke it starts to break down into things that are "bad" for you.  You should run right under that line.  Watch the oil, when it starts to look like it is flowing in the pan it is about to smoke.


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## cave76 (Feb 18, 2014)

pistos said:


> It's a whirlpool - electric



I have an electric stove also. But if you watch cooking shows/professional chefs you'll never see them using an electric range. A Wolf range, just to use one example of what brand professionals use, will bring the heat high up around the sides of the wok. An electric range can't do that.

About how YOU can do high heat cooking with a wok with an electric range---- beats me. I just can't do it. I use peanut oil because that's a common oil for oriental cooking. 

It's frustrating, I know.


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## Macgyver1968 (Feb 18, 2014)

Or in a worst case...keep a fire extinguisher or a box of baking soda handy.


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## Alix (Feb 18, 2014)

Wow pistos, I'm with cave, I think you're pretty lucky to get that kind of heat out of an electric range. I've never even been close with mine. 

Incidentally, I use canola or peanut oil, and follow Frank's advice, no problem. Don't wait too long once the oil is running fast.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 18, 2014)

I think it's simply a popular myth that a wok has to be super-hot to cook Chinese food. We've been over this before. Chinese restaurants use very high heat because they need to cook a lot of food quickly. I have an electric wok; I set the heat to 350ºF, wait about a minute, put the oil in, wait for it to begin to ripple in the wok, swirl it around the wok, then put the meat in.

IMO, the real key to homemade Chinese food is not moving the meat too soon. Let it sit in the hot oil and caramelize for a minute before turning. 

More info and a demonstration: http://www.steamykitchen.com/4997-broccoli-beef-noodle-stir-fry.html


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## Roll_Bones (Feb 18, 2014)

I like to watch the Chinese chefs using those foot pedal turbo wok burners.
They are using more than twice the heat the OP is and they get some fire, but they are showing off.

To me the OP is trying to replicate what she/he is seeing in the videos.  You really cannot replicate a professional setting at home and time may be adjusted for video.

Heat the wok, add the oil and fry.  It does not have to look or take the same time as what you see in the video.  If its tastes good, you are well on your way to success.


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## cave76 (Feb 18, 2014)

Roll_Bones said:


> To me the OP is trying to replicate what she/he is seeing in the videos.  *You really cannot replicate a professional setting at home and time may be adjusted for video.*
> 
> Heat the wok, add the oil and fry.  It does not have to look or take the same time as what you see in the video.  If its tastes good, you are well on your way to success.



*There ya go! In a nutshell. *


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## Andy M. (Feb 18, 2014)

GotGarlic said:


> I think it's simply a popular myth that a wok has to be super-hot to cook Chinese food. We've been over this before. Chinese restaurants use very high heat because they need to cook a lot of food quickly. I have an electric wok; I set the heat to 350ºF, wait about a minute, put the oil in, wait for it to begin to ripple in the wok, swirl it around the wok, then put the meat in.
> 
> IMO, the real key to homemade Chinese food is not moving the meat too soon. Let it sit in the hot oil and caramelize for a minute before turning.
> 
> More info and a demonstration: Chinese Broccoli Beef Noodle Stir Fry | Steamy Kitchen Recipes



I agree you have to let the meat sit still in the wok as you would in a sauté pan so it can brown.  Then you go on to stir-fry.

I don't agree that cooking with a very hot wok is a myth.  It actually simplifies the whole process.  A hot wok is important to sear the meat quickly and to cook the veggies without making them too soft.

That said, you will continue doing it your way and I'll do it mine.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 18, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> I agree you have to let the meat sit still in the wok as you would in a sauté pan so it can brown.  Then you go on to stir-fry.
> 
> I don't agree that cooking with a very hot wok is a myth.  It actually simplifies the whole process.  A hot wok is important to sear the meat quickly and to cook the veggies without making them too soft.
> 
> That said, you will continue doing it your way and I'll do it mine.



There's nothing complicated about the process. The meat sears in a minute or two, I toss it, give it a couple more minutes, toss again, remove, add a bit more oil, throw in the veggies, repeat. Push veg to the sides, pour sauce in the center, it thickens in about 10 seconds, mix with veg, add meat back, stir and warm, then serve. Very quick. 

All I'm saying is that you don't have to have a dangerously hot wok to make a good stir-fry. Btw, I use peanut oil, too.


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## Andy M. (Feb 18, 2014)

GotGarlic said:


> There's nothing complicated about the process. The meat sears in a minute or two, I toss it, give it a couple more minutes, toss again, remove, add a bit more oil, throw in the veggies, repeat. Push veg to the sides, pour sauce in the center, it thickens in about 10 seconds, mix with veg, add meat back, stir and warm, then serve. Very quick.
> 
> All I'm saying is that you don't have to have a dangerously hot wok to make a good stir-fry. Btw, I use peanut oil, too.




Who said anything about a _dangerously_ hot wok?


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## GB (Feb 18, 2014)

GotGarlic said:


> Chinese restaurants use very high heat because they need to cook a lot of food quickly.


I disagree. Chinese restaurants are not cooking a larger quantity of food than any other type of restaurant or needing to cook any quicker than any other type of restaurant, yet they go through the huge expense of getting those jet burners installed and pay the price for all the gas they burn. With margins what they are for restaurants, they are all looking to keep costs down wherever they can. If they were able to get the same results with a standard restaurant kitchen setup they would. The wok flavor that you get from a good Chinese restaurants meal is accomplished because of the high heat. I am not saying that you can't get excellent results in a home kitchen with a standard stove, but you will not get the "wok hay" flavor that is so sought after. That comes from the high heat and well seasoned wok.


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## pistos (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks all for your replies.  I really appreciate the diverse range of opinions and experiences.  



cave76 said:


> I have an electric stove also. But if you watch cooking shows/professional chefs you'll never see them using an electric range. A Wolf range, just to use one example of what brand professionals use, will bring the heat high up around the sides of the wok. An electric range can't do that.
> 
> About how YOU can do high heat cooking with a wok with an electric range---- beats me. I just can't do it. I use peanut oil because that's a common oil for oriental cooking.
> 
> It's frustrating, I know.


 
Aha, so what you're saying is that my stove isn't too hot, it's jsut concentrating the heat too much in the bottom.  Totally makes sense.  The local kitchen supply store has burners that run off these little cans, butane I think.  If I remember correctly, they put out a quite a few BTU.  I'll have to check it out.


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## pistos (Feb 18, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> Who said anything about a _dangerously_ hot wok?


 
He might have been referring to the two grease fires I had yesterday, that I mentioned in the OP.


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## Oldvine (Feb 18, 2014)

I have to agree.  There's nothing like a Wolf stove in the kitchen.   Even the best cook will get a flame up now and then.  If it scares you, keep a lid, and a bucket full of common sense,  at the ready to cover the wok should you get a flame up.    Smaller batches might help to keep higher heat on an electric range.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 18, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> Who said anything about a _dangerously_ hot wok?



Um, if the oil in the wok catches fire, it's dangerously hot. See the OP.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 18, 2014)

pistos said:


> He might have been referring to the two grease fires I had yesterday, that I mentioned in the OP.



She, thank you  Yes.


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## Andy M. (Feb 18, 2014)

I believe the OP's issue is not _dangerously_ high heat but technique.   Many of us who use high heat have no issue with flaming oil.  

As I said before.  You do it your way and I'll do it mine.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 18, 2014)

GB said:


> I disagree. Chinese restaurants are not cooking a larger quantity of food than any other type of restaurant or needing to cook any quicker than any other type of restaurant, yet they go through the huge expense of getting those jet burners installed and pay the price for all the gas they burn. With margins what they are for restaurants, they are all looking to keep costs down wherever they can. If they were able to get the same results with a standard restaurant kitchen setup they would. The wok flavor that you get from a good Chinese restaurants meal is accomplished because of the high heat. I am not saying that you can't get excellent results in a home kitchen with a standard stove, but you will not get the "wok hay" flavor that is so sought after. That comes from the high heat and well seasoned wok.



I personally am not pursuing a Chinese-restaurant experience when I make stir-fry, although I know many others are. The wok itself was invented because Chinese civilization is so old, they became short of fuel and the wok is a very efficient transmitter of energy. So authentic Chinese wok cooking is not done over thousands of BTUs of gas heat.

Food Timeline: Asian Food - Wok


> Woks are inventions of necessity: in lands where fuel is scarce, foods must be cooked quickly. The semipsherical curve of the wok permits maximum cooking surface based on minimal fuel contact. This explains (in part) why foods destined for the wok are routinely chopped into small, thin slices. They cook faster that way. The wok is also the ultimate tool of kitchen convenience, as it can be used to boil, sautee, stir-fry, deep-fry and steam. As one pot cooks all, clean-up is likewise minimal. According to the food historians, woks have been around for about two thousand years.


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## GB (Feb 18, 2014)

I do not disagree with any of that GotGarlic. I was just disagreeing with the reason you said they use the high heat in Chinese restaurants. I am saying they use it for the unique flavor it gives the food, not because they are trying to cook more or faster.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 18, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> I believe the OP's issue is not _dangerously_ high heat but technique.   Many of us who use high heat have no issue with flaming oil.
> 
> As I said before.  You do it your way and I'll do it mine.



I wasn't suggesting you do it my way; I was just explaining what I do. Works for me


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## GotGarlic (Feb 18, 2014)

GB said:


> I do not disagree with any of that GotGarlic. I was just disagreeing with the reason you said they use the high heat in Chinese restaurants. I am saying they use it for the unique flavor it gives the food, not because they are trying to cook more or faster.



Well, someone here I respect said that some years ago - I don't remember who it was. My bad for repeating it, I guess.


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## pistos (Feb 18, 2014)

GotGarlic said:


> I personally am not pursuing a Chinese-restaurant experience when I make stir-fry, although I know many others are. The wok itself was invented because Chinese civilization is so old, they became short of fuel and the wok is a very efficient transmitter of energy. So authentic Chinese wok cooking is not done over thousands of BTUs of gas heat.
> 
> Food Timeline: Asian Food - Wok


 
I've read similar opinions a couple of times, and this is where I get a little skeptical.  A primitive wood fire can outheat a typical modern electric range, no?  And a primitive forge is not much more than a well designed wood stove, and that will melt a wok.  No reason you can't get super hot with a small wood fire.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 18, 2014)

pistos said:


> I've read similar opinions a couple of times, and this is where I get a little skeptical.  A primitive wood fire can outheat a typical modern electric range, no?  And a primitive forge is not much more than a well designed wood stove, and that will melt a wok.  No reason you can't get super hot with a small wood fire.



Here's the list of books that quote came from. I suppose you could do some more research and report back to us.


The Food of China, E. N. Anderson [Yale University Press:New Haven] 1988 (p. 184-5) 
A History of Cooks and Cooking, Michael Symons [University of Illinois:Urbana] 2000 (p. 78) 
Cambridge World History of Food, Kenneth F. Kiple & Kriemhild Conee Ornelas [Cambrdige University Press:Cambridge] 2000, Volume Two (p. 1169)
[NOTE: This book has a long list of citation for further study.]


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## pistos (Feb 18, 2014)

GotGarlic said:


> Here's the list of books that quote came from. I suppose you could do some more research and report back to us.
> 
> 
> The Food of China, E. N. Anderson [Yale University Press:New Haven] 1988 (p. 184-5)
> ...


 
Hold on, you're being a bit unfair.  Just because some folks did some research doesn't mean I should turn off my brain.  And just because I haven't written a book on wok cooking doesn't mean I don't know a thing or two about wood fires.

Either way, I find nothing objectionable in the material you referenced.  What I am skeptical of is the inference that conservation of fuel means lower heat that a Super Deluxe Gordan Ramsey Elite VIII Stove.

I'm not saying you're wrong.
I'm not saying traditional Chinese cooking means super high heat.
I'm not saying one way is better than the other.

I'm just saying I can't see why you can't get a wok super hot with just a few logs of wood.


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## dcSaute (Feb 18, 2014)

pistos -

you can look up the smoke point and flash point of all the various oils in many places.

that, however,  may not be "cause" of your flaming wok.  

you may have seen many videos of many dishes by many cooks - where either unintentionally or "for show" the pan flares up in flames.  frying pans, saute pans, woks, sauce pans . . .

so why and how does a pan of oil suddenly develop monster size towers of flames?

one way is to simply overheat the oil - to the point it auto ignites.  

this is your absolute classic kitchen grease/fat fire - "oh I forgot it was on the burner!"  typically there's so much smoke before you get flames, in a situation without an exhausting hood, you're gonna know it's coming.

it is not the only way to make things "blow up in the kitchen"
hot oil, dump in (something) that is wet with water, the water 'explodes' into steam.  the 'steam explosion' causes the oil to 'atomize' -

for a fire, or explosion, you need:  fuel, oxygen, heat.  a quick check with your local fire fighters will reveal the opinion an empty gas can is likely more dangerous re: exploding, than a full can of gasoline because the "fuel" is atomized and only requires a spark/heat to ignite.

note the videos - 

the first - perhaps a tablespoon of oil, swirled around to a coating with a bit left on the bottom.  note the amount of chicken - did you see a huge billowing steam cloud when it was put in the pan?

the second - looks like a bit more oil, and in what appears to be a non-stick pan - the oil puddles at the bottom - but note the (large) amount of beef going into the wok - it basically 'smothers' the oil at the bottom, the oil has no chance to atomize, spread out in a cloud of fuel over the wok, and blow up into flames....  and note, again, not a lot of water going into the hot wok....

as you noted, flare-ups can be a bit disconcerting - especially in the home kitchen.  

perhaps it would be of benefit to review your woking technique and the state of watery-ness of stuff you toss in?

the wok temperature may not be any kind of issue at all.  the smoke point, much less the autoignition point, of the oils you're using are way far above and gone to the boiling point of water.  too much hot oil, too little stuff added, too wet - poof! wok-flame-thrower.....


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## taxlady (Feb 18, 2014)

dcSaute, the original poster stated that the oil caught fire in an experiment. It caught fire without the addition of anything else. Working technique is, in this case, irrelevant.


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## cave76 (Feb 18, 2014)

> The local kitchen supply store has burners that run off these little cans, butane I think.  If I remember correctly, they put out a quite a few BTU.  I'll have to check it out.



Whoa! I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about but----How will that help you get more heat for your wok, in the right places? Is that safe? Indoors?

But I also want to make  it clear that a delicious Chinese meal can be made with a wok on an electric range. I've done it.You can do it.


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## taxlady (Feb 18, 2014)

cave76 said:


> Whoa! I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about but----How will that help you get more heat for your wok, in the right places? Is that safe? Indoors?
> 
> But I also want to make  it clear that a delicious Chinese meal can be made with a wok on an electric range. I've done it.You can do it.


Some of them are definitely safe indoors. I have one called a Thunder Range, that we have for power outages. It's specifically designed with butane as the fuel, so it is safe indoors.


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## dcSaute (Feb 18, 2014)

>>Working technique is, in this case, irrelevant.

hmmm.  quite true.

"the wok was heated until it stopped smoking"
what does that mean? - perhaps it was heated to the point where all the existing oil / seasoning burned off.

"then added oil"
at a temperature quite likely past the auto-ignition point of any of the oils.
would explain why the wok stopped smoking, no?

technique may have a role in that approach.


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## cave76 (Feb 18, 2014)

taxlady said:


> Some of them are definitely safe indoors. I have one called a Thunder Range, that we have for power outages. It's specifically designed with butane as the fuel, so it is safe indoors.



I understand----- I've looked into them for myself and some are definitely safe indoors.

I was also wondering is if it would have the btu rating as high or higher than the OPs elec. range--- somewhere close to what a top drawer gas range would put out.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 18, 2014)

pistos said:


> Hold on, you're being a bit unfair.  Just because some folks did some research doesn't mean I should turn off my brain.  And just because I haven't written a book on wok cooking doesn't mean I don't know a thing or two about wood fires.
> 
> Either way, I find nothing objectionable in the material you referenced.  What I am skeptical of is the inference that conservation of fuel means lower heat that a Super Deluxe Gordan Ramsey Elite VIII Stove.
> 
> ...



You're right. Sorry. I was in a bad mood about something else and should have known better than to comment here.

So, I got curious and found this discussion, not really about the heat, but I found it interesting: Wok cooking - are home stoves really not hot enough? - China: Cooking & Baking - eGullet Forums


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## pistos (Feb 18, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> Put the wok on high heat and it will start smoking shortly.  When it starts to smoke, add a couple of tablespoons of oil in the pan and wait a minute or so until it starts to smoke then add your meat and start stir-frying.  If you don't splash the oil around too much, you shouldn't have a problem.



So I tried that today and I managed to:

a) not set any fires
b) get that nice TZZZZ!! with the striploin I was stir frying.

Unfortunately, I also got:

c) burned beef on the bottom of the pan 

Perhaps my escapades in kitchen fires yesterday didn't do my seasoning any favors   The dish turned out pretty tasty though.

I sauteed three batches of onion and ginger for about 40 minutes after dinner over medium heat to hopefully get that seasoning back.  I got company over for dinner tomorrow so hopefully no burning beef this time.


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## pistos (Feb 18, 2014)

This is my wok.  It's only a few weeks old but this should be seasoned enough to prevent burning, right?


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## powerplantop (Feb 18, 2014)

pistos said:


> This is my wok.  It's only a few weeks old but this should be seasoned enough to prevent burning, right?



Seasoning helps to prevent sticking, not burning. 

It just takes practice, you will get it.


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## pistos (Feb 18, 2014)

Sorry, I meant I burned the beef on the bottom of the wok.  It stuck on :-(


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## dcSaute (Feb 19, 2014)

>>seasoned enough
looking at the pix, I'd venture to say no.  especially given the various rings & bands.  typically "well seasoned" cast iron and carbon steel is near black and relatively even in color.

the earlier experiments may have been detrimental to the seasoning.  i.e. - one way to "clean & deseason" a pan for a "fresh start" is to heat it way past normal temperatures.  a trip thru the self-cleaning oven cycle, buried in hot coals, many methods used.  basically anything organic is "burned away" by the high temperatures.

that the oil(s) ignited so quickly in your experiments is a good indication that the wok was seriously too hot.  and fwiw, a "super burner" is not required to over heat an empty pan.  

curiously, electrics - often mentioned as inadequate for wok cooking - may be more prone to the problem - see:  
http://drum.lib.umd.edu/bitstream/1903/11333/2/Buda_Ortins_ResearchPaper.pdf

as to the 'sticking' - two thoughts

first - meats/proteins do want to 'stick' when the hit a hot pan / grill.  you may have seen recommendations like "wait until the burger/chop/steak/etc releases from the pan before flipping" - even on a well seasoned cast iron pan, meat will 'stick' for a short while.

second - there's a reason it's called 'stir fry' - anything that goes in the hot wok is immediately stirred / tossed before it has even seconds to 'stick'

although there are thousands of concepts ideas methods on 'how to season a pan' - I use the really dumb and simple approach - I just cook fatty stuff in it until it is 'nicely seasoned' - takes longer, things wantonly stick in the initial thru intermediate stages, but there's not a lot of user question as to when 'it's nicely seasoned' - at some point, more or less 'suddenly' - 'things sticking' is no longer an issue....


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## Cooking Goddess (Feb 19, 2014)

pistos said:


> This is my wok.  It's only a few weeks old but this should be seasoned enough to prevent burning, right?


*sigh* She's a beauty, but she's not there yet pistos. It's going to take time and lots of cooking to get that fine patina sported by a properly loved wok. It took a number of years for me to get that Chinese restaurant look to mine. In the meantime be sure to clean the stuck food off without removing the seasoning. I found it best to put that screaming hot pan in the sink and fill the bottom inch or two with the hottest tap water you can draw. I would run the tap to bring the hot water up through the pipes to make sure it was ready when it would hit the wok. After it cools off a bit (usually by the time you've scarfed all your food) use something like a Scotch-Brite heavy duty pad to scrub the softened crust off. Be sure you don't rub so hard as to remove any seasoning though.


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## cave76 (Feb 20, 2014)

Pistos-----I use salt and a paper towel to scrub my wok----- but I don't know how effective that might be to your poor wok. But I don't think it's time to bury her yet. Those woks are tough!


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## Roll_Bones (Feb 21, 2014)

Here ya go. Looks like all three are on the low setting.......LOL


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