# Eating based on the food pyramid vs Mediterranean



## discusscookingnewbie (Jul 3, 2022)

Hello all again. You might have heard or remember the food pyramid they would teach about in grade school, there is a Wikipedia article on it. I would prefer the latest updated version of that if its healthier then the Mediterranean and no meat at all as I have seen on the nets that no meat with food is actually healthier, espeashally not having red meat as red meat can cause unhealthy problems in the body. I don't know if any of that is true however I would rather play it safe than sorry by not eating red meat or any meat for now until I know for sure. 

I thought about switching to eating healthy using the food pyramid or based on the food pyramid rather then the Mediterranean food red bean and barley recipe I eat every day that I have discussed in my previous threads. If not, maybe I can modify what I already eat to make it better or healthier. 

I saw a nutritionist sort of recently and she helped me and gave me some advice to improve it or make it healthier. I already started to change it up a bit this year with adding more beans rather then just the dark red kidney beans, more fruit that is usually different types of grapes rather then bananas.

so having said all that, Is eating the food pyramid way healthier? espeashally not eating any meat or is eating the Mediterranean way healthier?


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jul 3, 2022)

There are healthy meats like bison, venison, elk, goat, rabbit, most wild game.  The issues with red meat is that we are forcing the animals to live sedentary, fat producing life styles, and feeding then foods to maximise unatural growth.  Pasture raised animals are healthier, less prone to excessive fat, and when allowed to graze on the natural plants, insects, and such, taste better, and are a great source of lean protien, and valuable nutrients.  In addition, there are a host of wild foods available with but a walk in the forest, that are nutritionally superior to anything found in the supermarkets.  There are berries, cherries, apples, nuts, grains, leeks, ramps, edible flowers, mushrooms, cowslups, barious members of the lilly family, dandylions, sourgrass, wintergreen, nettles, honey,  wild fish, purslane, burdock, and many others, many of them considered weeds in our lawns.  In the once famous words of the late Mr. Gibson: "Ever eat a pine tree?  Many parts are edible.".

Getting out into the forests, and fields, foraging for wild foods saves money, invigorates the body, and refreshes the soul.  It also privides healthier foods.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## GotGarlic (Jul 3, 2022)

There are obviously unhealthy ways to eat, but there is no either-or healthy way to eat. People eat well in all kinds of ways, with or without meat, poultry, fish and seafood and other foods. You need to determine what's best for you based on your health needs, food preferences and other personal decisions.


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## GotGarlic (Jul 3, 2022)

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> There are healthy meats like bison, venison, elk, goat, rabbit, most wild game.  The issues with red meat is that we are forcing the animals to live sedentary, fat producing life styles, and feeding then foods to maximise unatural growth.  Pasture raised animals are healthier, less prone to excessive fat, and when allowed to graze on the natural plants, insects, and such, taste better, and are a great source of lean protien, and valuable nutrients.  In addition, there are a host of wild foods available with but a walk in the forest, that are nutritionally superior to anything found in the supermarkets.  There are berries, cherries, apples, nuts, grains, leeks, ramps, edible flowers, mushrooms, cowslups, barious members of the lilly family, dandylions, sourgrass, wintergreen, nettles, honey,  wild fish, purslane, burdock, and many others, many of them considered weeds in our lawns.  In the once famous words of the late Mr. Gibson: "Ever eat a pine tree?  Many parts are edible.".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That sounds idyllic, Chief, but you know as well as I do that it' s not realistic for most people to forage enough to live on. There's a reason why most people aren't hunter-gatherers anymore. The biggest problem with most people's diet is that they eat too much of the wrong things.


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## taxlady (Jul 3, 2022)

GotGarlic said:


> There are obviously unhealthy ways to eat, but there is no either-or healthy way to eat. People eat well in all kinds of ways, with or without meat, poultry, fish and seafood and other foods. You need to determine what's best for you based on your health needs, food preferences and other personal decisions.



I agree.


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## blissful (Jul 3, 2022)

We eat for health. There's nothing that tastes as good as healthy feels.
We eat whole food plant based (no oil, little salt, no refined sugar), and no animal products. Our exception is honey, it is an animal product of sorts.
Learn what you can about nutrition and how it affects health.


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## LVDeb (Jul 4, 2022)

Before the liver transplant, I would eat fairly clean (making much of my own stuff...but then prednisone happened and everything went out the window). My liver doctor introduced me to the Mediterranean way of eating, which brought into focus what I was instinctively trying to do. If you're ever on steroids, this way of eating cuts down the nasty junk food/sugar cravings like a hot knife through buttah.

With that said, we don't eat beef here. We don't like what the commercial meat companies are doing. A couple times of year, we place an order with Rock River Bison and order straight from the rancher. He started out only selling to high end restaurants, but after COVID hit, his son suggested selling to the public. Ranch to table doesn't get any better than this.

Oh, and they sell great buffalo rugs too. Out in the desert here, it's way to heavy and warm to sleep under, even in winter, but in the guest room on the daybed (aka: The Buffalo Room), it's cool and comfy to nap ON.

As far as the "food pyramid" goes, I don't trust it. It's been mucked up since the start and all part of propaganda. Watch the episode of "Adam Ruins Everything" where he takes a deep dive into "diet foods". It's an eye-opener.

I also believe that genetics plays a big part. Back in the 90's I was working in a health food store and tried going vegetarian. 

So many nopes on so many levels.

My family background is strongly rooted in eastern Europe (83% Russian, with the rest in Greece, France, Italy, Romania and the Balkans...all the great food places!). I need the meats. My ancestors most likely ate a bit of everything, and for all I know, my people go all the way back to the Rus in the frozen north. You think they were farming all year 'round? I doubt it. Meat and fish were on the table.

At any rate, it works for me, and that's what it's all about. Finding what works for you.


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## taxlady (Jul 4, 2022)

Deb, I agree about the genetics. I was a vegetarian off and on for five or six years. I never stopped craving meat. I was ovo-lacto, so it wasn't just a question of craving protein. My ancestors are from Scandinavia. My father's mother was Saami. Reindeer herders and hunter gatherers. Lots of meat in that diet and next to no veg in winter. But, some people just don't need that much meat. I get almost all of the meat I buy from smaller Quebec farms. I'm lucky that I have the privilege of being able to be that picky and still eat meat. I'm picky about fish too.


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## kb0000 (Jul 5, 2022)

Its not the critter  that matters--  “There are healthy meats like bison, venison, elk, goat, rabbit, most wild game.”--  that makes for healthy meat,  its how it was raised.  “There are healthy meats like bison, venison, elk, goat, rabbit, most wild game.” are almost always free range grass fed meat.  Free range grass fed beef is  equally low fat.   And beware packaged ground bison meat.  It has added fat, making it as bad a 80-20 hamburger.   Same  for ground turkey, pork,  and chicken  which  usually have  added fat.   Free range chicken is also good, as is no skin chicken.  The Med diet has little red meat, a lot of fish  & sea food which typically is low fat.  
 Not all fats are bad.  Trans fats are the worst.  Too much saturated fat also bad, but a little is essential.   The good  fats are olive oil, prevalent in the Med diet, and canola oil.   That’s it.  Avoid all other plant based fats and meat fat.  
 The pyramid has improved by pushing  more veggies, but the government is still corrupted by the meat industry.  Go Mediterranean, but keep this in mind.  The Med diet is excessively  heavy on veggies.  That’s  mostly because lean meat and fish are really expensive.   The key is to limit saturated fat. Not eating meat does it, but so does eating low fat meat & sea food.


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## kb0000 (Jul 5, 2022)

Its not the critter  that matters  that makes for healthy meat,  its how it was raised.   Raindeer are free range grass fed meat.  That’s low saturated fat.  Free range grass fed beef is  equally low fat.  Beware packaged ground bison, turkey, pork,  and chicken  which  usually have  added fat making them as bad as 80-20% beef.   Free range chicken is also good, as is no skin chicken.   
 Not all fats are bad.  Trans fats are the worst.  Too much saturated fat also bad, but a little is essential.   The good  fats are olive oil, prevalent in the Med diet, and canola oil.   That’s it.  Avoid all other plant based fats and meat fat.


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## JonasStax (Jul 5, 2022)

https://www.iitaly.org/magazine/focus/life-people/article/truth-about-mediterranean-diet

First of all, the Mediterranean diet is a lifestyle. It is not only a set of rules to follow at the table, clarifies medical professor Maurizio Trevisan, founding dean of the CUNY School of Medicine and an expert on how lifestyle help cause or prevent cardiovascular disease. Indeed, this dietary attitude promotes healthy habits as well, such as eating socially.

Colorado, for instance, has a heart disease mortality and serum cholesterol lower than certain part of Italy. In these state, people embraced a healthy lifestyle characterized by high physical activity and a healthier diet. (Read the full transcript at the web site)

https://ich.unesco.org/en/RL/mediterranean-diet-00884#

The Mediterranean diet involves a set of skills, knowledge, rituals, symbols and traditions concerning crops, harvesting, fishing, animal husbandry, conservation, processing, cooking, and particularly the sharing and consumption of food. Eating together is the foundation of the cultural identity and continuity of communities throughout the Mediterranean basin. (UNESCO) (Read the full transcript at the web site)


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## JonasStax (Jul 5, 2022)

https://philmaffetone.com/mediterranean-diet-myth/

https://www.pennmedicine.org/updates/blogs/health-and-wellness/2019/february/mediterranean-diet

https://www.healthline.com/nutritio...only-on-European-cuisines-may-be-stigmatizing

https://www.healthline.com/nutritio...iterranean-diet-were-not-talking-about-enough

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-weight/diet-reviews/mediterranean-diet/

https://oldwayspt.org/traditional-diets/mediterranean-diet

https://www.verywellfit.com/the-mediterranean-diet-pros-and-cons-4685664

https://www.verywellfit.com/how-does-mediterranean-diet-compare-to-other-diets-4685672

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/31/...heart-benefits-socioeconomic-study/index.html


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## taxlady (Jul 5, 2022)

Reindeer actually eat a lot of lichen. They can and will eat green plants in summer, but they tend to prefer lichen. I don't know about reindeer elsewhere, but Saami reindeer are definitely free range. Reindeer meat is very lean and is a good source of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids. I'm sure some of that applies to other caribou as well.


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## LVDeb (Jul 5, 2022)

I've given up on the word "diet". It is banned from this household. Any "diet" a culture ate was, indeed, a lifestyle. In the archaeological sense of the word, what kind of diet did these ancient people have? What was available? It certainly wasn't the fad-related definition of "diet" we have today.

Hope that makes sense. Too much caffeine today. Kinda wired.


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## dragnlaw (Jul 5, 2022)

I certainly have to laugh at ..  what's that diet called where only raw unprocessed foods are eaten?  

Did they ever think of what the life span was for a lot of those ancient 'gatherer's'.  30? 40? years of age?


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## LVDeb (Jul 5, 2022)

Well, you know, you couldn't exactly go into a grocery store for Mammoth Tenderloin. I'm sure that had a little something to do with the shorter lifespan.


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## JonasStax (Jul 5, 2022)

Probably the best history and description of the Mediterranean Diet.

Chapter 2. History of Mediterranean food
Mohamed Yassine Essid
Dans MediTERRA 2012 (english) (2012), pages 51 à 69

https://www.cairn.info/mediterra-2012-english--9782724612486-page-51.htmMediterranean

"Did they ever think of what the life span was for a lot of those ancient 'gatherer's'. 30? 40? years of age?"

My Southern Italian ancestors live to an average age of 85 years.

The biggest killer of Europeans was poor sanitation, hence the spread of the Bubonic Plague estimated wiping out, depending on locality, between 25% to 60% of the 14th century European population.

Industrialised Coal 17th to 19th Century Europe, estimated average lifespan 40 years.

20th Century living with adequate healthcare, people smoked and consumed alcohol excessively, consumed a high fat diet, People still managed to live to 70 years.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jul 5, 2022)

dragnlaw said:


> I certainly have to laugh at ..  what's that diet called where only raw unprocessed foods are eaten?
> 
> Did they ever think of what the life span was for a lot of those ancient 'gatherer's'.  30? 40? years of age?



Steven Jobs ate only raw veggies and plants.  He even nmed his company after his dietary preferences, i.e. Apple.  He died of liver failure causrd by his diet.

I read about a neighborhood in New York state, that was populated by Italian imigrants.  This community had abnormaly long lives, in spite of the fact that they ate foods rich in cheeses, pasta, with fatty meats, and a fairly western style diet.  So how come they lived so long?  The article stated that they are a tight nit comunity, where everyone knows everyone else.  They share their joys, sorrow, triumphs, and failures., in short, their lives.  They relieve each other's stress.  This seems to be the most important factor in a healthy lifespan.  

The body reacts to stress by ramping up for emergency action.  It doesn't care if the stress is caused by a bear chasing you, or badly behaving childre.  More adrenaline pumps through the body.  The liver releases sugars into the blood stream.  The body becomes ready for hyper-activity., often with no outlet available to expend the extra energy.  This causes inflamation, depression, and a host of body damaging effects.

In the paraphrased words of Crocodile Dundee, we could all use more mates.

Yes, what we eat is important.  I do belive thogh, that how we live our lives is even more important.  

Don't take this as a prosilitizing statement.  In the church to which I belong, we also enjoy longer lives than is average in the U.S.  We place great value in families, and assisting each other.  When there is a problem, be it help repairing a vehicle, helping elderly get groceries, or just enjoying people who accept you, we assist each other, as best as we can.  Again, stress relief.

So is it the Mediteranian foods, or the Mediteranian lifestyle, or both, that contributes to the longer lives?  You have to decide that for yourself.  I just know that stress ruins luves.  It played a major roll in destroying my kidneys.  I know of at least 4 people, some who were relatives, who never found the answers to their stress, and who commited suicide.

DC is a good place to relax, relieve a bit of stress, and get lost, for just a little while.  This forum won't repair my roof, but by sharing what I have learned in this life, and benifitting from other perspectives and wisdom, shared by all of you, it makes life just more enjoyable.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## taxlady (Jul 5, 2022)

JonasStax said:


> Probably the best history and description of the Mediterranean Diet.
> 
> Chapter 2. History of Mediterranean food
> Mohamed Yassine Essid
> ...


Were those ancestors of yours in Italy still hunter gatherers? I think that dragn was talking about a lot longer ago.

My people, the Saami often lived into their seventies and eighties in the past couple of centuries, unless they caught tuberculosis or smallpox. The records for Saami births and deaths get sparse the farther back you go and are very skimpy before 1700. The black death didn't really get to the Saami. Not living in cities, or even villages, and spending most of your life outdoors helps prevent some diseases. Heck, my grandmother lived to over a hundred. But, in her case, modern healthcare may have been a factor. She died in the 1980s.

Once you start counting life expectancy only of people who survive to the age of five, it's surprising how long it was in the past few hundred years.


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## JonasStax (Jul 5, 2022)

"Were those ancestors of yours in Italy still hunter gatherers? I think that dragn was talking about a lot longer ago."

My ancestors were mountain living, hunter gatherers, scavengers.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/...ncient-people-live-life-span-versus-longevity

"In the 1st Century, Pliny devoted an entire chapter of The Natural History to people who lived longest. Among them he lists the consul M Valerius Corvinos (100 years), Cicero’s wife Terentia (103), a woman named Clodia (115 – and who had 15 children along the way), and the actress Lucceia who performed on stage at 100 years old.

Then there are tombstone inscriptions and grave epigrams, such as this one for a woman who died in Alexandria in the 3rd Century BC. “She was 80 years old, but able to weave a delicate weft with the shrill shuttle”, the epigram reads admiringly."

"Taken altogether, life span in ancient Rome probably wasn’t much different from today. It may have been slightly less “because you don’t have this invasive medicine at end of life that prolongs life a little bit, but not dramatically different”, Scheidel says. “You can have extremely low average life expectancy, because of, say, pregnant women, and children who die, and still have people to live to 80 and 90 at the same time. They are just less numerous at the end of the day because all of this attrition kicks in."

https://www.cairn.info/mediterra-201...mMediterranean

Probably the best explanation of the Mediterranean Basin Lifestyle, yet it does not explain disease epidemics.

The Mediterranean Basin Lifestyle consisted of tightly grouped houses with narrow access roads wide enough for a horse draw cart. The chamber pot waste was throw out the window into the street. People rarely bathed. Diseases were unknow. The streets stank of horse manure and urine and human waste. Yet a percentage of the human race built up immunity to disease.

The true historical lifespan may never be known because as the BBC article points, out averages is a numbers game. The majority of people living Mediterranean Basin Lifestyle lived in squaller, the wealthy and aristocrats lived better lives. What would occur if the disease factor was removed?


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## GotGarlic (Jul 6, 2022)

It's not surprising that there were people who managed to avoid disease, infection and accidents and lived long lives before 1900, especially isolated nomadic populations. But this is about life expectancy of the group, not the longevity of individuals. Before modern medicine was developed, people frequently died from cuts (infections), broken bones and childbirth.


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## GotGarlic (Jul 6, 2022)

JonasStax said:


> "Were those ancestors of yours in Italy still hunter gatherers? I think that dragn was talking about a lot longer ago."
> 
> 
> 
> My ancestors were mountain living, hunter gatherers, scavengers.


How far back can you trace your family tree?


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## JonasStax (Jul 6, 2022)

Life expectancy of the human population when cities implement sanitation and disease control and people live healthy lifestyles is 80 plus years. My Italian ancestors as a group live to an average age of 80 to 85 years. 

If people examine the cloistered village environment of medieval Europe, the localities were disease spreaders. The current state of the COVID virus is a prime example. Isolated people are safe, close environment the disease is rampant.


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## GotGarlic (Jul 6, 2022)

JonasStax said:


> Life expectancy of the *human population* when cities implement sanitation and disease control and people live healthy lifestyles is 80 plus years. My Italian ancestors as a group live to an average age of 80 to 85 years.


And are you including ancestors before, say, 1850? When do you think cities implemented sanitation and disease control? Which cities? 

Life expectancy of the human population before 1900 was more like 40. Modern life expectancy is around 70-75 depending on which country you're talking about. Life span is a different thing. 



JonasStax said:


> If people examine the cloistered village environment of *medieval Europe* , the localities were disease spreaders. The current state of the COVID virus is a prime example. Isolated people are safe, close environment the disease is rampant.


That's Public Health 101. People die from a lot more than just infectious disease. 

Looking at the bolded phrases and your other comments, you seem to be only thinking about the European experience. The world is a lot bigger than that.


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## taxlady (Jul 6, 2022)

GotGarlic said:


> It's not surprising that there were people who managed to avoid disease, infection and accidents and lived long lives before 1900, especially isolated nomadic populations. But this is about life expectancy of the group, not the longevity of individuals. Before modern medicine was developed, people frequently died from cuts (infections), broken bones and childbirth.



I agree. 

I was thinking about how much it varied and that life expectancy and longevity are not the same thing. I can see that I really didn't make that clear.

I sometimes overreact on subjects of historical longevity and life expectancy. I'm so tired of people who tell me that Arctic people didn't live past 40 before white people brought them modern medicine.


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## blissful (Jul 6, 2022)

discusscookingnewbie said:


> Hello all again. You might have heard or remember the food pyramid they would teach about in grade school, there is a Wikipedia article on it. I would prefer the latest updated version of that if its healthier then the Mediterranean and no meat at all as I have seen on the nets that no meat with food is actually healthier, espeashally not having red meat as red meat can cause unhealthy problems in the body. I don't know if any of that is true however I would rather play it safe than sorry by not eating red meat or any meat for now until I know for sure.
> 
> I thought about switching to eating healthy using the food pyramid or based on the food pyramid rather then the Mediterranean food red bean and barley recipe I eat every day that I have discussed in my previous threads. If not, maybe I can modify what I already eat to make it better or healthier.
> 
> ...




You asked about meat. You can also search on this page for meat, fish, poultry, processed meat. It's about nutrition. There are many short videos provided, and below the videos tabs, with medical studies cited.
https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/meat/


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## JonasStax (Jul 6, 2022)

"Looking at the bolded phrases and your other comments, you seem to be only thinking about the European experience. The world is a lot bigger than that."

The topic is about the Mediterranean Diet.

"And are you including ancestors before, say, 1850? When do you think cities implemented sanitation and disease control? Which cities?''

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calabria

My ancestors live in Calabria.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/...ncient-people-live-life-span-versus-longevity

Do we really live longer than our ancestors?

On the record

The data gets better later in human history once governments begin to keep careful records of births, marriages and deaths – at first, particularly of nobles.

From 1200 to 1745, 21-year-olds would reach an average age of anywhere between 62 and 70 years

Those records show that child mortality remained high. But if a man got to the age of 21 and didn’t die by accident, violence or poison, he could be expected to live almost as long as men today: from 1200 to 1745, 21-year-olds would reach an average age of anywhere between 62 and 70 years – except for the 14th Century, when the bubonic plague cut life expectancy to a paltry 45.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancel_Keys
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Countries_Study
https://www.truehealthinitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/SCS-White-Paper.THI_.8-1-17.pdf
https://theconversation.com/how-the-mediterranean-diet-became-no-1-and-why-thats-a-problem-131771

The Seven Countries Study is an epidemiological longitudinal study directed by Ancel Keys at what is today the University of Minnesota Laboratory of Physiological Hygiene & Exercise Science (LPHES). Begun in 1956 with a yearly grant of US$200,000 from the U.S. Public Health Service, the study was first published in 1978 and then followed up on its subjects every five years thereafter.

The Seven Countries Study represents a lifestyle snapshot of the people living in the regions where Seven Countries Study was conducted.

The 2022 global food distribution network, health care and lifestyle is different from the original study.

The reality of life is anyone can write a book, without leaving their home, espousing the merits of the Mediterranean Diet.

The reality of life is Southern Italy is full of ghost towns because the younger generation move to the industrial north to find employment.

The reality of life is the heritage Italian cuisine is disappearing because the majority of Italian women don't have the time to stand around the stove slowing cook meals. Italian male offspring are refusing to leave home because modern Italian single women are no longer interested in taking care of "Peter Pan Personalities". 

The reality of life is globally, the supply of heritage fruit and vegetables are being replaced by hybrids suitable for green picking and refrigeration transport. Heritage fruit and vegetable seeds are available from seed banks if people want to grow them in their back yard. The scientific data says the hybrids are just as nutritious as the heritage varieties. From my experience with the local supply of hybrids, the hybrids are tasteless, requiring the use of condiments in the cooking process to add taste.

In an era where global governments are advocating building high rise building to house residents, people may be enjoying the benefits of the Mediterranean Diet. Where is the quality of life when people are densely housed in small apartments the size of a double garage?


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## GotGarlic (Jul 6, 2022)

"Medieval Europe" isn't limited to the Mediterranean areas, so you expanded the topic. 

Jonas, I don't know why you bother posting a dozen links in every post - yes, I'm exaggerating slightly for effect. I'm not going to read them all and I doubt anyone else is reading all of your links, either. We want to discuss cooking with human beings, not trade quotes from websites.


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## taxlady (Jul 6, 2022)

GotGarlic said:


> "Medieval Europe" isn't limited to the Mediterranean areas, so you expanded the topic.
> 
> Jonas, I don't know why you bother posting a dozen links in every post - yes, I'm exaggerating slightly for effect. I'm not going to read them all and I doubt anyone else is reading all of your links, either. We want to discuss cooking with human beings, not trade quotes from websites.



There aren't even any quotes to go with those links. I have no interest in clicking random links without knowing why I should bother clicking or what sort of information I might get.


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## GotGarlic (Jul 6, 2022)

taxlady said:


> There aren't even any quotes to go with those links. I have no interest in clicking random links without knowing why I should bother clicking or what sort of information I might get.


There are quotes - there are just no quote marks, so you can't tell the difference between what he wrote and what he's quoting.


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## JonasStax (Jul 6, 2022)

"We want to discuss cooking with human beings, not trade quotes from websites"

"There aren't even any quotes to go with those links. I have no interest in clicking random links without knowing why I should bother clicking or what sort of information I might get"

There are quotes - there are just no quote marks, so you can't tell the difference between what he wrote and what he's quoting.

There is a summary of what the links contain.

I forgot to type end at the end of the links

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancel_Keys
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Countries_Study
https://www.truehealthinitiative.org...HI_.8-1-17.pdf

Summary of the above links.

The Seven Countries Study is an epidemiological longitudinal study directed by Ancel Keys at what is today the University of Minnesota Laboratory of Physiological Hygiene & Exercise Science (LPHES). Begun in 1956 with a yearly grant of US$200,000 from the U.S. Public Health Service, the study was first published in 1978 and then followed up on its subjects every five years thereafter. END.

Personal Observation.

The Seven Countries Study represents a lifestyle snapshot of the people living in the regions where Seven Countries Study was conducted. The original Seven Countries Study is no longer relevant because in 2022 people living in the regions where Seven Countries Study was conducted are no longer living the late 1950's lifestyle. END.

https://theconversation.com/how-the-...problem-131771

The above link refutes the claim medieval Europeans lived shortened lives. END.

Anyone can write a cookbook without leaving the comforts of home. The only part of a recipe which is subject to copyright is the description. Many food sites post the ingredients on their web page and a link to the full recipe on the copyright holder's web site.

If people want the genuine, comprehensive, European Culinary Experience, Microsoft Edge contains a language translator which will automatically translate European languages to English. Visit the web site, save the page and edit the page with the SeaMonkey web browser.


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## HeyItsSara (Jul 7, 2022)

The Mediterranean diet is only healthy if you re from that region.  It's not  healthy for everyone.


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## GotGarlic (Jul 7, 2022)

HeyItsSara said:


> The Mediterranean diet is only healthy if you re from that region


I don't think that's true, either. There are few absolutes when it comes to how to eat.


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## HeyItsSara (Jul 7, 2022)

GotGarlic said:


> I don't think that's true, either. There are few absolutes when it comes to how to eat.



This is what I've heard.  The diet is for the people whose bodies are used to it.   It makes sense that not everyone's body would benefit.


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## summer57 (Jul 7, 2022)

Most of my ancestors from the Hebridean Islands lived until their 90s, according to my genealogy records. Well, except for those who died in childbirth. Their diet was probably not what we'd call Mediterranean because of the lack of veg.
Lots of fish and shellfish, whatever they could scrape off the rocks or find in tide pools. Oats. Dairy cows were for milk not beef. Seaweed, kale & nettles for veg, and berries for fruit. Thinking about it, I suppose it is a form of Mediterranean.


My French ancestors (originally from Normanday & Brittany) also lived a long time. My great-great grandfather loved his garden and his hawk. I suspect lots of pork, butter, whatever the hawk caught and all that good stuff.


Coincidentally, I eat a lot of fish, and if I have meat, it's usually pork or chicken. Beef's ok but not my favourite.


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## JonasStax (Jul 7, 2022)

summer57's post perfectly describes the Sicilian and Calabrian lifestyle.

https://www.slowfood.com/about-us/

Slow Food is a global, grassroots organization, founded in 1989 to prevent the disappearance of local food cultures and traditions, counteract the rise of fast life and combat people’s dwindling interest in the food they eat, where it comes from and how our food choices affect the world around us. END

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Mosley_(broadcaster)

Michael Mosley (born 22 March 1957) is a British television journalist, producer, presenter, and former doctor who has worked for the BBC since 1985. He is probably best known as a presenter of television programmes on biology and medicine and his regular appearances on The One Show. END

Planet Earth's lifestyle is never stagnant. It is a continuing evolution of amalgamating lifestyles as the shipping routes introduced new foods and ideas. The Venetian's dominance in the evolution of Northern Italian cuisine is well documented. Michael Mosley through his documentaries for the BBC raised the awareness in the UK of slowing the pace of living and healthy eating. Traditionally, the UK farm plots are small plots where the produce is sold within the surrounding communities.

When published in 1978, The Seven Countries Study was obsolete especially in Southern Italy because the majority of the baby boomers moved to the industrial north to seek employment. Yet it did not stop the entrepreneurial writers and book publishers from promoting the Mediterranean Diet.

Humans have an adaptable digestive system. Given time individuals will adapt to the available food in their locality. The fast food industry is a testament. Fast food has proliferated in Asian countries, as has Asian food in European countries.

USA has the most concentrated and diverse genetic population on the planet. PBS, TV Food Network, America's Test Kitchen, Southern Living Magazine, Eating Well Magazine, Eating Light Magazine, Canadian Living Magazine to mention a few have all contributed to healthy cuisine.

If people are determined to live a healthy lifestyle, people will find resources within their local communities.

As a first generation Australian born to Calabrian migrants, I healthy eat what is available. I maintain a 150,000 recipe database sorted into categories and sub-categories. I can cross reference recipes and compare the nutritional value for the same proportional meals. Eliminate the nasty manufactured trans fats, the majority of the recipes are within an acceptable nutritional value.


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## GotGarlic (Jul 7, 2022)

HeyItsSara said:


> This is what I've heard.  The diet is for the people whose bodies are used to it.   It makes sense that not everyone's body would benefit.


It might seem to make sense, but that's not how the digestive system works. Everyone's body breaks down food into basic chemicals and uses those as needed to make new cells for different purposes. It doesn't matter what people are used to eating. This page has more information with diagrams of the digestive organs and what they do. I have inflammatory bowl disease, so I'm intimately familiar with the process.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/digestive-system/sls-20076373


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## GotGarlic (Jul 7, 2022)

When people talk about the Mediterranean Diet in the modern sense, this kind of thing is generally what they're talking about: https://www.olivetomato.com/med-diet-101/

The author of this blog is a Greek registered dietician, so her recommendations are based on published research and the Greek cuisine she is familiar with. If it's the kind of diet you want to follow, for whatever reason, it's a pretty good guide, imo.


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## JonasStax (Jul 8, 2022)

"Everyone's body breaks down food into basic chemicals and uses those as needed to make new cells for different purposes." "I have inflammatory bowl disease, so I'm intimately familiar with the process"

I am in a similar situation due to my gall bladder removal 30 years age. I have been to medical specialists, had every blood test known, even looked down the gut and rear end. The part medical technology cannot examine is in the middle. The medical term is irritable bowl syndrome. A fancy term to state we known there is something wrong, we cannot identify the cause. Hence my recipe database I use as a diet reference.

If people are seeking the Italian culinary experience:

http://www.ciaoitalia.com

Ciao Italia is the USA's longest running cooking show.

The approximately 2000 recipes posted on the web site are the best examples of Italian cuisine outside of Italy.

If people are seeking a healthy scientific researched diet:

CSIRO:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSIRO

The CSIRO Total Wellbeing Diet:
https://www.csiro.au/en/research/health-medical/diets/csiro-total-wellbeing-diet-online

My experience is there is no diet to suit everyone. It is a matter of trial and error and finding food groups and recipes to suit. Humans evolved as carnivorous hunter gathers, farmers eating naturally evolving fruits and vegetables and selective animal husbandry. Industrialisation introduced broad acre farming, and hybrid breeding of fruits and vegetables suitable for green picking, cool room storage and transportation and shelf ripening. The end result is tasteless produce compared to heritage varieties, yet according to official nutritional calculators, the nutritional value is identical. The other issue is artificially manufactured fertilizers and pesticides claimed to be healthy. DDT was once claimed as the safest pesticide manufactured until the research data revealed otherwise. Glyphosate is now questionable as safe. Artificially manufactured fertilizers are absorbed by trees and crops. No-one know what effect it is having on the digestive system, hence irritable bowl syndrome. The fillers in pharmaceutical drugs are also suspect in irritable bowl syndrome.


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## GotGarlic (Jul 9, 2022)

JonasStax said:


> "Everyone's body breaks down food into basic chemicals and uses those as needed to make new cells for different purposes." "I have inflammatory bowl disease, so I'm intimately familiar with the process"
> 
> 
> 
> I am in a similar situation due to my gall bladder removal 30 years age. I have been to medical specialists, had every blood test known, even looked down the gut and rear end. The part medical technology cannot examine is in the middle. The medical term is irritable bowl syndrome. A fancy term to state we known there is something wrong, we cannot identify the cause. Hence my recipe database I use as a diet reference.


My doctor sends me for an MRI to examine the middle part.





JonasStax said:


> My experience is there is no diet to suit everyone. It is a matter of trial and error and finding food groups and recipes to suit. Humans evolved as carnivorous hunter gathers, farmers eating naturally evolving fruits and vegetables and selective animal husbandry. Industrialisation introduced broad acre farming, and hybrid breeding of fruits and vegetables suitable for green picking, cool room storage and transportation and shelf ripening. The end result is tasteless produce compared to heritage varieties, yet according to official nutritional calculators, the nutritional value is identical. The other issue is artificially manufactured fertilizers and pesticides claimed to be healthy. DDT was once claimed as the safest pesticide manufactured until the research data revealed otherwise. Glyphosate is now questionable as safe. Artificially manufactured fertilizers are absorbed by trees and crops. No-one know what effect it is having on the digestive system, hence irritable bowl syndrome. The fillers in pharmaceutical drugs are also suspect in irritable bowl syndrome.


DDT is a persistent pesticide - it doesn't break down, which is why it caused so many problems. Glyphosate is not a persistent pesticide - it breaks down to inert ingredients in a few weeks. It's been very well studied - it was first approved in the 1970s and the patent expired in 2000. All pesticides are not the same. They need to be evaluated individually. 

Just because someone questions something doesn't mean there's a problem with it. Some people are just out to confuse other people and make money by solving "problems" they themselves promote. You have to be very careful about what you choose to believe.


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## JonasStax (Jul 9, 2022)

"My doctor sends me for an MRI to examine the middle part."

I managed to control my issue with a change of diet, if it persisted capsule endoscopy was the next diagnosis.

Capsule endoscopy:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/capsule-endoscopy/about/pac-20393366

"Capsule endoscopy is a procedure that uses a tiny wireless camera to take pictures of your digestive tract. A capsule endoscopy camera sits inside a vitamin-size capsule you swallow. As the capsule travels through your digestive tract, the camera takes thousands of pictures that are transmitted to a recorder you wear on a belt around your waist.

Capsule endoscopy helps doctors see inside your small intestine — an area that isn't easily reached with more-traditional endoscopy procedures. Traditional endoscopy involves passing a long, flexible tube equipped with a video camera down your throat or through your rectum." END.

"Just because someone questions something doesn't mean there's a problem with it. Some people are just out to confuse other people and make money by solving "problems" they themselves promote. You have to be very careful about what you choose to believe."

Never accept information or opinions as gospel. Scientists, researchers, medical profession are not gods. Question everything and cross reference the source of the information. Scientific papers are peer reviewed and sometimes retracted. https://retractionwatch.com/

The bacterium Helicobacter pylori bacteria and the proof of a simple treatment is a prime example of the pharmaceutical industry trying to discredit medical research. 

Robin Warren
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Warren

"John Robin Warren AC (born 11 June 1937, in Adelaide) is an Australian pathologist, Nobel Laureate and researcher who is credited with the 1979 re-discovery of the bacterium Helicobacter pylori, together with Barry Marshall. The duo proved to the medical community that the bacterium Helicobacter pylori (H. pylori is the cause of most peptic ulcers."

"At the University of Western Australia, with his colleague Barry J. Marshall, Warren proved that the bacterium is the infectious cause of stomach ulcers. Warren helped develop a convenient diagnostic test (14C-urea breath-test) for detecting H. pylori in ulcer patients."

"In 2005, Warren and Marshall were awarded the Nobel Prize in Medicine." END.

Glyphosate.

https://www.env-health.org/campaign...to-protect-health-ban-the-popular-weedkiller/

"On the other side of the Atlantic, more than 100,000 people have already filed lawsuits against Monsanto (now Bayer) in the US, alleging that exposure to the glyphosate-based Roundup causes cancer. So far three cancer lawsuits have gone to trial, with juries returning verdicts of $2.424 billion against Monsanto for compensation and for failing to warn consumers that exposure to Roundup can be associated with non-Hodgkin lymphoma. In the meantime, Bayer just announced that it aims at moving away from using glyphosate for residential use in the US from 2023." END.

The reality is humans evolved with plants and animals and selectively breed plants and animals for human consumption. Broad acre farming, the use of pesticides and crop dusting are relatively new technologies in the evolution of the human race. No-one can say for certain what the long term effects are of pesticides. In my region, using pesticides to control fruit fly is banded. Commercial orchards must use pheromone traps.


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## HeyItsSara (Jul 11, 2022)

GotGarlic said:


> It might seem to make sense, but that's not how the digestive system works. Everyone's body breaks down food into basic chemicals and uses those as needed to make new cells for different purposes. It doesn't matter what people are used to eating.



Well, yes and no.  Yes, that's how the body works, but no - people are definitely products of their environment - as in evolution.  The body changes. 



GotGarlic said:


> I have inflammatory bowl disease



We also have IBS and various stomach issues. That's how I know about this.


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## HeyItsSara (Jul 11, 2022)

See also this:

https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/31/heal...heart-benefits-socioeconomic-study/index.html


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## blissful (Jul 11, 2022)

This is the Mediterranean Diet:


*Eat:* vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds, legumes, potatoes, whole grains, herbs, spices, fish, seafood, and extra virgin olive oil
*Eat in moderation:* poultry, eggs, cheese, and yogurt
*Eat rarely:* red meat, sugar-sweetened beverages, added sugars, processed meat, refined grains, refined oils, and other highly processed foods
(from this: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/mediterranean-diet-meal-plan#the-basics)



Do people know what moderation means? Probably not. My definition might be different than your definition and different yet again from how many ounces/week of any food prescribed by this lifestyle/diet.


Do I eat mediterranean? YES I eat completely mediterranean, without the
processed food (refined grain, oil, sugar), and animal products. Every single things I eat is on this diet, and less.


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## GotGarlic (Jul 11, 2022)

blissful said:


> This is the Mediterranean Diet:
> 
> 
> *Eat:* vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds, legumes, potatoes, whole grains, herbs, spices, fish, seafood, and extra virgin olive oil
> ...


Olive oil and some animal products are part of the Mediterranean diet. Your extreme vegan diet does not qualify.


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## blissful (Jul 11, 2022)

Gotgarlic, qualify for what? Was there a contest or competition or something?


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## GotGarlic (Jul 11, 2022)

HeyItsSara said:


> Well, yes and no.  Yes, that's how the body works, but no - people are definitely products of their environment - as in evolution.  The body changes.



Evolution takes a *really* long time. Homo sapiens has not changed much. 






HeyItsSara said:


> We also have IBS and various stomach issues. That's how I know about this.


IBS rarely, if ever, causes severe malnutrition or requires surgery to treat.


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## taxlady (Jul 12, 2022)

GotGarlic said:


> Evolution takes a *really* long time. Homo sapiens has not changed much.
> 
> <snip>



I think diet based on genetics applies to me. My ancestors have lived in the subarctic and arctic longer than it took the Swedes to go from dark skinned to white. So, yeah, with long time evolution, I believe they were adapted to a diet suited to that climate.


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## GotGarlic (Jul 12, 2022)

taxlady said:


> I think diet based on genetics applies to me. My ancestors have lived in the subarctic and arctic longer than it took the Swedes to go from dark skinned to white. So, yeah, with long time evolution, I believe they were adapted to a diet suited to that climate.


You're right. I was thinking of the blood type diet, which has been debunked.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jul 13, 2022)

It's surprising how quickly the human body can adapt.  Irish settlers in Appalachia worked in coal mines, and were often too poor to afford shoes.  The kids had to go barefoot through the harsh winters. Within a generation, they adapted, growing a rich supply of blood vessels that kept their feet warm.  Their feet also became wider to better support them in the snow.    So, when required, we can adapt.

Seeeeya; Chef Longwind of the North


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## taxlady (Jul 14, 2022)

Chief, I think that kind of adaptation is because we keep a lot of "useless" genes around. It turns out that they aren't always useless. It's how animals can change their basic camouflage colouration in very few generations when their environment changes, either because of changes to the environment or they moved. A great example of this is the moths in England that got dark to match the sooty trees during the industrial revolution and then reverted to their previous lighter colour when they air got cleaned up. (That was the simplified version.)


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## discusscookingnewbie (Jul 17, 2022)

Hi, thanks for all who responded. That's a lot of information. all probably find a lot of it useful. Hope you all have a good weakened


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## HeyItsSara (Sep 7, 2022)

I just saw an article in Experience LIfe magazine and thought of this post.

they also discuss the: 

Latin American Heritage diet
Asian Heritage diet
Native American Heritage diet


and

the
African Heritage diet.

all based on the people with that background.


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