# Returning our food at a restaurant,  How would you handle this ??



## larry_stewart (Jun 30, 2008)

Over the weekend, my wife and I were in a restaurant in a large casino.  It was more of a Chinese food court kind of a thing than an actual sit down restaurant.  You take a menue, make your selection, tell the person at the register what u want, they send it to the back, where all the cooks are on display, then when your order # appears on a screen, u go and get your dinner, and sit down.  Although it is casual, it is within the casino, and is actually very nice ( not like a mall food court)

Anyway, now that you have the image.  Both my wife and I are vegetarians.  We ordered the stir fried chinese broccoli, and the soy chicken.  Neither had a description underneath their title.  We placed our order, waited for our number to appear , then got our food and sat down.

When we opened the dinners ( they were in take out dishes), we noticed it was real chicken, not soy chicken as we expected.  My wife brought it to the woman who took our order, and pointed out that it was not soy chicken , but real chicken, and that we were vegetarians and would not eat this ( very politely ). There was definitely a language barrier, so the woman got another woman ( who i assume was the manager)  and my wife explained the situation to her.  The woman ( still a language barrier, but not as bad) said that it was soy chicken, so my wife said, no it is real chicken, like the bird. the woman said, no no, it is soy sauce chicken, and that we should try it, because it is veyr good.  My wife continued to explain that we are vegetarians and would not eat this ( still very politely).  Bottom line, is that the woman refused to take it back.  My wife didnt want to take it to the next level, because it was a ' mini vacation'  and it wasnt worth getting bent out of shape for $8.50 dish.  But its the principle.  

Sure, in hind-site, we should have asked them to describe the dish before we placed our order, but on the other hand, it should have been clearly presented on the menu for us to see.  I feel there is no real wrong or right here, but the right thing to do would have been to let us reorder something that we eat.

We ate our one dish ( which was very good) .  Left disappointed, then went to Ben and Jerry's and woofed down some cherry garcia on a cone.

So, do u think its worth writing a letter ? or should i just be more careful next time ( which i usually am, but i thought this was a no brainer).

PS.  To add insult to injury, we lost at the casino also.


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## Fisher's Mom (Jun 30, 2008)

I would have handled it the same way you and DW did. It isn't worth making a big deal about when, with the language issue, they probably wouldn't have understood anyway. Sorry you lost at the tables, too.


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## jennyema (Jun 30, 2008)

It's quite common to call a chicken dish flavored with soy sauce "soy chicken."  IMO that name was not misleading, especially in a Chinese restaurant.  And especially if the word "chicken" was not in quotes.

I think it would have been quite unusual for a restaurant like that to serve "chicken" made from soybeans.  

I'd let it pass, myself.


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## lulu (Jun 30, 2008)

Oh dear, how miserable for you both.

I have to say though, I would have assumed the soy chicken was real chicken in a soy sauce of some sort.


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## bowlingshirt (Jun 30, 2008)

lulu said:


> I have to say though, I would have assumed the soy chicken was real chicken in a soy sauce of some sort.


 
Me too. Maybe you should have asked for a clarification before you ordered.


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## GB (Jun 30, 2008)

In my opinion the restaurant did nothing wrong. Soy Chicken is the name of a dish. Had I seen that on the menu I would have absolutely thought of soy sauce and real chicken. 

Because you and your wife are vegetarians my guess is that you saw soy and automatically thought that the chicken was made of soy. This is not your fault either, but it does not make it the restaurants fault. 

If it were my restaurant I would have taken the dish back and replaced it with something else that you wanted, but I do not think that this restaurant should have done that unless they felt like it. It was a misunderstanding and really no one is too blame. 

I would chalk it up to a learning experience and next time you will probably question the ingredients a little harder.


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## larry_stewart (Jun 30, 2008)

I agree, and thats what we did.  But on the other hand , being a vegetarian, and seeing it through a vegetarians eyes, it is equally as common to see it listed as soy chicken, when they mean vegetarian also.    They did not have a specific vegetarian menu, as many other restaurants do, and im not sure if they did or didnt have any other 'soy' selections there that were vegetarian that would have made it even more misleading. 

Usually we are more careful, this time we wernt and just added the $8.50 to our losings.  Its just one of those annoying things, that I know I would have handled differently if it were my business.  Especially since it is a Huge casino ( not a privately owned restaurant) that is making millions and millions from the gambling, and just have these restaurants there so the gamblers dont have to stray too far from the tables.

Looking at it from a business point of view, if they keep me happy, the longer I will stay , and statistically, the more $$ I will lose at the tables.  Im sure the manager wasnt thinking along those lines, since they have their quota's or whatever.  But i think it would have been in the overall casino's best interest to just make things good. 

Hmmm

Im now wondering if the Steamed Chicken Feet with Beans were also not vegetarian???


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## CharlieD (Jun 30, 2008)

When I red "soy chicken" I assumed just that. That it was going to be some kind of (fried or boiled) chicken with something that is made out of soy. The thought of it being actual vegetarian dish did not even occur in mine mind. I'm sure the people in the restaurant felt the same way.


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## lulu (Jun 30, 2008)

larry_stewart said:


> I agree, and thats what we did. But on the other hand , being a vegetarian, and seeing it through a vegetarians eyes, it is equally as common to see it listed as soy chicken, when they mean vegetarian also. They did not have a specific vegetarian menu, as many other restaurants do, and im not sure if they did or didnt have any other 'soy' selections there that were vegetarian that would have made it even more misleading.
> .....
> 
> Hmmm
> ...


 
 chicken feet!

I think what those of us who have 'dietry requirements' need to rememebr always is there are always going to be more of those who'll eat anything than those who have any 'restriction' or particular requirement.  I think in times of any lack of clarity its OUR responsibilty to do the checking, not the restaurant's.  

Well done you for being sensible about it, I guess now its a reminder to everyone to check, check and double check if its a choice that means you might not be able to eat it!


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## CharlieD (Jun 30, 2008)

P.S.  I did not even red GB post before posting mine, and actually haven’t been I a Chinese restaurant for quite a while. Having special need diet I make double sure that what is being served is something I can eat.


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## jennyema (Jun 30, 2008)

larry_stewart said:


> being a vegetarian, and seeing it through a vegetarians eyes, it is equally as common to see it listed as soy chicken, when they mean vegetarian also.


 
But in a _Chinese_ restaurant?


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## larry_stewart (Jun 30, 2008)

Absolutely,  IF anything, I find that chinese restaurants offer the most variety for us ( vegetarians ) to have than any other ethnic restaurant.  Indian is a close second.  Ive been to many many chinese restaurants that have a complete vegetarian menu offering the same dishes just using " soy products " as a substitute.  

I know it may seem like a whole other world for most of u, but as a vegetarian for the past 20 ( oh my god, I cant believe I can say 20 years, im getting old) years, Many restaurants have been making very obvious additions to their menu's.  Maybe I took it for granted,  and I definitely should have been more careful.  Also, maybe its because Im in new york, and maybe they have a little more to offer vegetarians here, or maybe I just made a stupid comment   I dont know . And im not upset at all, just curious if I should have handled it any differently.


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## GB (Jun 30, 2008)

It was just a different interpretation from different points of view. It does not mean anyone was right or wrong, but it falls on your shoulders as your responsibility to check what is in the dish if you are not completely sure. unfortunately you thought you were completely sure until you got your dish so you had no way of knowing that you would have had to check further. Next time you will know though.


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## krichardson (Jun 30, 2008)

I had a similar experience at my favorite restaurant last night. I always get the same thing and last night it had an additional ingredient, guacomole (sp?) Well I'm deathly allergic to that, and I should have said no guac even if it wasn't listed as an ingredient. There was a language barrier with my server as well, and so they didn't understand why just taking the dish in the back and scraping the guac off of the same plate wasn't enough. In the end I know I will go back there ( I love the place!) I'll just be more specific when ordering. By the way I'm a vegetarian as well, and I actually work at a place that serves Soy Chicken. That is what we call it and we serve it in many different dishes. And to be honest most customers assume that is real chicken, it does resemble the flavor and texture of real chicken but it is just soy. So I understand your frustration, but I guess being on the side of the limited diet we have to be responsible to order correctly.


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## Callisto in NC (Jun 30, 2008)

I would have assumed soy sauce and chicken, not soychicken.  I just looked at three different Chinese food menus, none of which had a vegetarian section, just a section with vegetables and none of them had soy meats.  I think it was simply a mind set.  You saw "soy" and thought the chicken was soy.  Was it listed under the "chicken" section?  If so, I would say to assume it's real chicken with soy sauce.  If it was under vegetables or vegetarian, then you can assume the chicken was soy.  Just my thoughts.  I do know I would never read "soy chicken" as anything other than real chicken with soy sauce.  

And while Chinese restaurants have traditionally had vegetarian meals, it's generally not listed as that on the menu.  It's usually on the menu and you have to look, and/or ask.


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## ironchef (Jun 30, 2008)

If it was a vegetarian dish, it would probably have been listed under the "vegetable" section of the menu. Not knowing how the menu was written (99.9% of Chinese restaurants have items seperated into a specific category), if this item was under the "chicken" or "poultry" section, there is no way I would assume that it was made with a non-chicken or non-meat product. And even if it wasn't, I would ask to get clarification. 

While I can understand your point of view, the restaurant is under no obligation to change the order because of a wrong assumption from a customer. Yes, it's better practice to be more courteous, but the restaurant does not have to do it. 

For anyone under dietary restrictions, beit vegan, vegetarian, allergy, or otherwise, it is YOUR responsibility to inform the restaurant and to take the neccessary steps to ensure that your dietary needs are met. You should ALWAYS assume that anything the restaurant serves will be geared towards the majority of people, and that includes people who eat meat, or are not allergic to things like shellfish, nuts, gluten, etc.


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## ironchef (Jun 30, 2008)

Also, keep in mind that two common ingredients in Chinese stir fry sauce bases are chicken stock and oyster sauce. Even if you order something that's just as simple as stir fried vegetables, there's a good chance that meat based products will be used.


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## luckytrim (Jun 30, 2008)

..................at my local Chinese restaurant, which I haunt constantly, your dish appears as "vegetarian Chicken".


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## larry_stewart (Jun 30, 2008)

Agreed, and I take full responsibilty. JUst to mention it was not under the poultry section, nor in the vegetable section either,  I dont remember specifically where it was.  But being vegetarian so many years, and having been in the situation of looking at a menu and distinguishing between vegetarian vs real, it must have been a little questionable for me to make the stupid mistake.

As far as chinese restaurants go ive been to many ( a dozen or more in new york, philly, even in canada) that have a significant vegetarian section ( in addition to the vegetable section) and a bunch that are %100 vegetarian.  The one I go to frequently lists it as " A taste of Zen" others stress the Buddhist traditions ..  Sure, those are more obvious situations.  I wish I had the menu in front of me so I could see where i went wrong.

And I guess what bothered me the most was that we had the small problem, yet were not able to speak to someone who truly understood us ( literally) so it was kind of frustrating.  She kept saying " try it, you'll like it, its very good" 

Honestly, I was sitting back watching the whole thing, and it was kind of funny watching my wife struggling to communicate.  It was like two totally different conversations going on at the same time.  When my wife said, " no, it is a real chicken, like the bird ..." I laughed ( I was sitting at the table , quite a distance away, so they didnt know i could here)

And now, its just a funny memory that we will talk about for years, but id rather be talking about how great the "SOY CHICKEN" was , then how my wife made a jack *** out of herself


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## luckytrim (Jun 30, 2008)

My favorite meatless dish there is called "Buddha's Delight"....................


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## Uncle Bob (Jun 30, 2008)

Ironchef said:
			
		

> While I can understand your point of view, the restaurant is under no obligation to change the order because of a wrong assumption from a customer. Yes, it's better practice to be more courteous, but the restaurant does not have to do it.


 
I agree! ......I personally would have pushed the issue a little bit harder, because I have my doubts as to how much of a language barrier there really was.




			
				larry stewart said:
			
		

> So, do u think its worth writing a letter ? or should i just be more careful next time


 
IMO writing a letter would be a waste of time and postage. The time for making your case was then and there! Just be more careful next time!

Have Fun & Enjoy!


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## Callisto in NC (Jun 30, 2008)

Funny.  I've never gone to a Chinese restaurant and expected to be able to communicate with anyone.  I generally assume I'm lucky to get someone who understands when I want "lo mein" instead of "fried rice."


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## larry_stewart (Jun 30, 2008)

Well, I did have restaurant near me when i lived in philly that served " Hacked Chicken".  Not exactly sure what that was , but I definitely assumed it wasnt soy


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## luvs (Jun 30, 2008)

geebs & charlie posted as i would.


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## bowlingshirt (Jun 30, 2008)

Callisto in NC said:


> Funny. I've never gone to a Chinese restaurant and expected to be able to communicate with anyone.


 
That's why they put the numbers beside the menu items.


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## Callisto in NC (Jun 30, 2008)

bowlingshirt said:


> That's why they put the numbers beside the menu items.


Exactly.  And I only ever order by number and add "lo mein/no rice" after the number.  If I get rice, I just give it to my daughter.  Safest thing, however, is to just order ala carte so I know I get what I want.  I've also learned if I order shrimp lo mein I get more than if I order a shrimp dish with lo mein.  Much better deal if you ask me.


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## DrThunder88 (Jun 30, 2008)

A similar thing happened to me.  I ordered "Soy_lent_ Chicken"...let's just say you don't want to know what that's made from!


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## larry_stewart (Jun 30, 2008)

What was interesting in my case was that the dish we ordered " soy chicken"  actually was printed on the order sheet as "chicken with rice",  but the chinese broccoli was printed as chinese broccoli, that is why we thought that they messed up the order, because it wasnt printed the same way it was listed on the menu. Oh, And i think it was # 93


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## simplicity (Jun 30, 2008)

ironchef said:


> For anyone under dietary restrictions, beit vegan, vegetarian, allergy, or otherwise, it is YOUR responsibility to inform the restaurant and to take the neccessary steps to ensure that your dietary needs are met. You should ALWAYS assume that anything the restaurant serves will be geared towards the majority of people, and that includes people who eat meat, or are not allergic to things like shellfish, nuts, gluten, etc.


 
I wholeheartedly agree with this. I have dined with too many people who have complained after the fact. If you are uncertain, ask.


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## Andy M. (Jun 30, 2008)

I would have expected soy flavored chicken as well. I would expect to see "Tofu Chicken" for a vegetarian dish.

I also agree you handled well and that the restaurant would have been better served to replace the dish for good will.


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## VeraBlue (Jun 30, 2008)

Absolutely write your letter.  

Is it possible, even remotely possible, that the chicken really was made of soy?  I ask because I was a vegetarian for a year and sampled many different types of soy chicken.  There was one restaurant in Teaneck NJ that had the most unbelievable soy chicken you've ever had.  It wasn't real chicken to be sure.   The restaurant is in a town with a very large hasidic population.  There are many kosher restaurants and many vegan restaurants (because it's easire to cater to the kosher eating crowd than try to keep a kosher meat kitchen).
The restaurant I am referring to was a chinese restaurant.  All vegan, all soy.  Even the duck was soy.  Is it possible?

You'll only get your answer and some satisfaction if you write the letter.


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## knight76 (Jun 30, 2008)

As soon as I read the OP's first post and he identified them as vegetarians, yet ordered Soy chicken I thought, Hmm?

I know the vegetarian mind set must be different to meat eaters as you are used to looking at menu's and deciphering the code of what is meat and what isnt. But if you have never been to this place before, and the menu says Soy Chicken, with a note after it saying Chicken and Rice then I would definately be asking the question. Just to avoid dissapointment.

As to wether the restaurant should have taken it back, I guess that varies from restaurant to restaurant. To them, you are just one person in the multitudes they get. Being in a Casino they won't have to worry too much if you don't go back. I am sure, this would be a different story in a stand alone restaurant. Also, it is likely this restaurant is not owned by the casino and does not care if you stay at the crap tables longer. 

Finally, if I were a vegetarian I would be very dubious about ordering any vegetable only dish from a Chinese restaurant as they cook everything in Woks and no doubt, your vegetable dish is being cooked in a wok that just cooked a nice meaty dish. Or as someone else posted, they probably use a chicken stock anyway.


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## larry_stewart (Jun 30, 2008)

If it was real, then it was the reallest looking fake chicken i have ever seen.  Looked too real for me to eat, and the lack of communication didnt give me the opportunity to find out.


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## VeraBlue (Jun 30, 2008)

larry_stewart said:


> If it was real, then it was the reallest looking fake chicken i have ever seen.  Looked too real for me to eat, and the lack of communication didnt give me the opportunity to find out.



If for nothing else, that is why you should write the letter.


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## larry_stewart (Jun 30, 2008)

Just to clarify a few things, the " soy chicken" had no description at all.  The ' chicken with rice' was printed on the receipt that was handed to us when we picked up the order.  Clearly, if it was called chicken with rice, i would have questioned it.  The "SOY" is what through my wife and I off.  Being vegetarian for 20 years, and therefore not having ordered anything off a meat related menu for 20 years, I never saw 'soy chicken'.  That is why when we saw the "soy" we assumed it was made from soy.  As far as the cooked in the same wok.  We are not vegan. Sure I would prefer if it were in its own wok, but im not going to spray paint someones fur coat over it either.  In addition, Im quite aware that many dishes use chicken broth, or other things that wouldnt be considered vegetarian.  Sure I try to avoid it, but unfortunately for me, Unless the restaurant claims to be vegan, or has a separate vegetarian menu,  I have to assume that there is cross contamination or ingredients i normally would avoid.  I do the best I can to be vegetarian in a not vegetarian society.  And really, what i guess the reason why I started this thread, was not about being vegetarian, or chicken stock, but about what was the proper way to handle this situation.  And the feedback that i have gotten so far has been that I should have been smarter, asked for a more precise description, and if there was a language barrier, or i just didnt feel right, i should have ordered something else.  And I agree %100.  I dropped the ball on this one.  As far as the vegetarian thing, different topic, different thread.  Every ' vegetarian' has their own rules and guidelines what they will and wont eat, which restaurants they will and wont eat at .....and all the other crap that goes with it .

I guess while im at it , Ill touch on the subject a little .  I dont feel ordering the soy chicken and expecting it to be soy was that far off base.  Its not like I walked into a kosher restaurant and asked for pork chops.  In my experiences, I have been to many chinese restaurants that offer these things.  Being a new restaurant to me, I should have asked the questions, but, whatever .


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## VeraBlue (Jul 1, 2008)

I've never seen 'soy chicken' referred to anything other than a soy based chicken like product.  Sure, chinese restaurants use soy with chicken, but they do that in all their sauces, for the most part.  You see sesame chicken, or orange chicken, or kung pao chicken.  I've never seen it written 'soy chicken' unless it was faux chicken.


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## GB (Jul 1, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> I've never seen 'soy chicken' referred to anything other than a soy based chicken like product.  Sure, chinese restaurants use soy with chicken, but they do that in all their sauces, for the most part.  You see sesame chicken, or orange chicken, or kung pao chicken.  I've never seen it written 'soy chicken' unless it was faux chicken.


And I have never seen soy chicken refer to anything other than soy sauce chicken. The restaurants I go to say what the dish is. Faux chicken is not chicken. It is something else (whatever that kitchen makes it out of). If it is tofu being subbed as chicken then the menu says tofu. If it is something else being subbed as chicken then they call it whatever that something else is. This is much less confusing as the dish is what it says it is. Soy chicken (as in faux chicken)  is not chicken so why call it that?


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## Bigjim68 (Jul 1, 2008)

Lulu, I think that you hit this one smack on.  I would have assumed that soy chicken would be chicken with soy sauce.  Similar to teryiaki chicken.  If the restaurant wants a lot of angry customers, try serving a bean dish when everyone is expecting sauced chicken.  Those with special requirements should be aware that it is their obligation to ask the questions.  Many restaurants have a vegetarian menu these days.  That might be a suggestion that you could communicate to the manager that may be taken seriously.


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## jennyema (Jul 1, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> I've never seen 'soy chicken' referred to anything other than a soy based chicken like product. Sure, chinese restaurants use soy with chicken, but they do that in all their sauces, for the most part. You see sesame chicken, or orange chicken, or kung pao chicken. I've never seen it written 'soy chicken' unless it was faux chicken.


 

"Soy chicken" is a very common term used to describe chicken marinated/cooked in soy sauce. 

Just exactly the kind of thing you'd expect in a Chinese restaurant.

It's also quite commonly called "soy sauce" chicken, which would have been immensely helpful in the present situation, but quite often the word "sauce" is left out.


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## QSis (Jul 1, 2008)

larry_stewart said:


> In addition, Im quite aware that many dishes use chicken broth, or other things that wouldnt be considered vegetarian. Sure I try to avoid it, but unfortunately for me, Unless the restaurant claims to be vegan, or has a separate vegetarian menu, I have to assume that there is cross contamination or ingredients i normally would avoid. I do the best I can to be vegetarian in a not vegetarian society.


 
Larry, thanks for responding to ironchef's reminder about chicken stock, etc.   I WAS curious about your feelings on that!  

Lee


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## larry_stewart (Jul 1, 2008)

Yeah, its part of the game of being a vegetarian. My grandmother used to make me pea soup when i was younger, and insist there was no meat in it. Meanwhile, I could clearly taste it, see it , smell it .... I couldnt upset grandma, so i thanked her, then gave it to my mother when we left. 
Restaurants, sure most of the time the broth is chicken, the sauce was made with meat, the apple pie crust with lard...The list goes on. SUre, in the ideal world, vegetarian = vegetarian, but it doesnt work that way, so I have to adapt to the world around me. No big deal. I do the best I can. Even the few strictly vegetarian restaurants I go to, sometimes I wonder, because some of the sauces just taste a little too real. But im not going to wander into the kitchen . I just take it for what it is, and if im really bothered by it, just avoid it the next time. As I said, Im not one to spary paint peoples fur coats, or burn down houses. I just want a good, tasty , vegetarian meal.


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## VeraBlue (Jul 1, 2008)

GB said:


> Soy chicken (as in faux chicken) is not chicken so why call it that?


 
It would be called 'chicken' (meaning the word 'chicken' would be in the name of the item) so vegetarians or vegans would know what flavour the soy product is supposed to mimic.  If the items weren't called chicken, beef, duck, fish, etc...everything on the menu would be called 'soy'.  The fact that the product is in fact soy, is usually why the word 'soy' precedes the word chicken, or beef, etc.


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## GB (Jul 1, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> It would be called 'chicken' (meaning the word 'chicken' would be in the name of the item) so vegetarians or vegans would know what flavour the soy product is supposed to mimic.


I have never had one of these imitations that tasted anything even remotely like chicken. I have seen them attempt to look and feel like chicken, but I have never tasted any that could be considered chicken flavored. I especially could not see this in a soy (sauce) chicken dish where the soy sauce flavor would make the soy product taste like soy cause and not chicken.


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## VeraBlue (Jul 1, 2008)

larry_stewart said:


> Yeah, its part of the game of being a vegetarian. My grandmother used to make me pea soup when i was younger, and insist there was no meat in it. Meanwhile, I could clearly taste it, see it , smell it .... I couldnt upset grandma, so i thanked her, then gave it to my mother when we left.
> Restaurants, sure most of the time the broth is chicken, the sauce was made with meat, the apple pie crust with lard...The list goes on. SUre, in the ideal world, vegetarian = vegetarian, but it doesnt work that way, so I have to adapt to the world around me. No big deal. I do the best I can. Even the few strictly vegetarian restaurants I go to, sometimes I wonder, because some of the sauces just taste a little too real. But im not going to wander into the kitchen . I just take it for what it is, and if im really bothered by it, just avoid it the next time. As I said, Im not one to spary paint peoples fur coats, or burn down houses. I just want a good, tasty , vegetarian meal.


 
Larry, I'm only speaking from my own experiences but I would like to assure you that you probably are getting a vegetarian base in those soups.  Most chefs take vegetarians very seriously.  It would be extremely unethical to serve something called 'vegetarian' if in fact it is not.  That's like trying to hide pork in a chili you know jews could eat, or eggs in something you expect indians to eat.  It's just not right.  A chef will stake their reputation on their meal.  Feeding something to a person who has dietary restrictions is a big deal, meant to be taken that way.  

On the other hand, it's up to the customer or guest to always alert the staff of any dietary restrictions if they are in a 'free for all' restaurant.  By that I mean, allergies, aversions, and food items that must be omitted.  You know better than anyone else what you can and are willing to tolerate.  You are your own best advocate.

Just like some people call that bubbly stuff soda and others call it pop...the word soy means lots of different thing to lots of different people.  But, one last time, I've been two both ChinaTowns on both coasts, and countless chinese restaurants all over the country.  I've had more chinese take out than your average citizen.  In all that experience I have never seen the words 'soy chicken' written on any menu to refer to 'soy sauce chicken'.  I cannot even imagine what that finished product would be like...  Most sauces in chinese restaurants are chili, hoisin, plum, teryiaki, kung pao, black bean, garlic....  Those are the general descriptives used on the menu.  I've never seen 'soy' in the name.   Doesn't mean that some are doing it, but I have never seen it in easily over a hundred different take out menus.


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## VeraBlue (Jul 1, 2008)

GB said:


> I have never had one of these imitations that tasted anything even remotely like chicken. I have seen them attempt to look and feel like chicken, but I have never tasted any that could be considered chicken flavored. I especially could not see this in a soy (sauce) chicken dish where the soy sauce flavor would make the soy product taste like soy cause and not chicken.


 
Well, then, you haven't had any decent soy products. If you've never been a vegetarian, or cooked for vegetarians on a daily basis it would make sense that your only experiences would be limited. There is a huge market out there both supplying and demanding superiour products.

And, to answer your original question about why the product would even have the name chicken in it...just because it didn't taste like chicken to you, doesn't mean it cannot be a descriptive to other people.  Surely, you wouldn't expect it to be called 'soy-we-pretend-tastes-like-chicken-but-who-are-we-kidding?'  It's called soy duck l'orange because it's meant to taste like duck l'orange.


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## larry_stewart (Jul 1, 2008)

I think what VeraBlue is refering to is the word "Soy" being used as an adjective as opposed to a nouns.

For example: is Orange Beef beef that tastes like an orange, or is it literally orange in color ( i loved this analogy )


And in my case, is Soy Chicken soy (sauce) flavored chicken, or chicken made from soy...

And I agree that most immitation suff doesnt taste like the real thing, although it could be used in replacement and would work, in a culinary sense


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## GB (Jul 1, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> Well, then, you haven't had any decent soy products.  If you've never been a vegetarian, or cooked for vegetarians on a daily basis it would make sense that your only experiences would be limited.  There is a huge market out there both supplying and demanding superiour products.


Vera you know nothing about me. You do not know if I have or have not been a vegetarian or cooked for a vegetarian on a daily basis. You do not know what quality soy products I have or have not had. You do not know if my experiences have been limited. 

I happen to have had plenty of quality soy products. Just because I do not find them tasting anything at all like chicken most certainly does not mean that I must have been eating inferior products.  

The only think I know of that tastes like chicken is chicken.


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## GB (Jul 1, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> Surely, you wouldn't expect it to be called 'soy-we-pretend-tastes-like-chicken-but-who-are-we-kidding?'  It's called soy duck l'orange because it's meant to taste like duck l'orange.


I never said that is what it should be called. Read my post. I said it should be called what it is. For example, if you are using tofu to replace the chicken then call it tofu with soy sauce. It really is not that hard. 

And I disagree that it is called soy duck l'orange because it's meant to taste like duck l'orange. I think it is called that because it is meant to be a vegetarian replacement for duck l'orange.


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## larry_stewart (Jul 1, 2008)

Now if they just would have replaced my soy chicken with something else, we'd all be hugging, singing and holding hands!!!


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## GB (Jul 1, 2008)




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## VeraBlue (Jul 1, 2008)

GB said:


> .
> 
> The only think I know of that tastes like chicken is chicken.


 
Fine, the only thing you know of that tastes like chicken is chicken.  You asked me why would a product that was made of soy be called 'soy chicken'.  I answered that question for you.  You continued to divulge what your own personal experiences were regarding taste, etc.  You only asked why.  I answered.
Sure I don't know anything about you.  I answered in good faith that perhaps you haven't had any good soy products yet.  I only see that my answer to your question didn't satisfy you.  That doesn't make my answer wrong.


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## VeraBlue (Jul 1, 2008)

GB said:


> I never said that is what it should be called. Read my post. I said it should be called what it is. For example, if you are using tofu to replace the chicken then call it tofu with soy sauce. It really is not that hard.
> 
> And I disagree that it is called soy duck l'orange because it's meant to taste like duck l'orange. I think it is called that because it is meant to be a vegetarian replacement for duck l'orange.


 
How would it constitute a replacement if it wasn't meant to taste like it??  
There are literally hundreds of products out there, made of soy that mimic other protiens.  For marketing purposes, it cannot all be called soy.  No one who is seeking a soy product that tastes like chicken, or can be cooked like chicken, would know what they were getting if the product didn't have the word chicken in the title.  That, also shouldn't be that hard.


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## GB (Jul 1, 2008)

My question was rhetorical Vera. I was not asking *you*. I was using the question to demonstrate my point that calling something by what it really is would be much more logical than calling it something it isn't.


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## GB (Jul 1, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> How would it constitute a replacement if it wasn't meant to taste like it??


Texture and visually, not to mention being a protein. It really is not that hard.


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## VeraBlue (Jul 1, 2008)

GB said:


> My question was rhetorical Vera. I was not asking *you*. I was using the question to demonstrate my point that calling something by what it really is would be much more logical than calling it something it isn't.


Then why did you quote me?  Doesn't that usually mean, in the virtual world, that you are responding directly to that person?


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## GB (Jul 1, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> Then why did you quote me?  Doesn't that usually mean, in the virtual world, that you are responding directly to that person?


I already answered that question in the post of mine you just quoted, but since you seemed to have missed it...

It was rhetorical. I was using it to demonstrate my point.


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## jennyema (Jul 1, 2008)

larry_stewart said:


> I think what VeraBlue is refering to is the word "Soy" being used as an adjective as opposed to a nouns.
> 
> For example: is Orange Beef beef that tastes like an orange, or is it literally orange in color ( i loved this analogy )


 

Isn't soy being used as an adjective in both cases?  Same as your orange example?

In both cases it's being used to describe the chicken.  "Soy" modifies the noun "chicken" in both cases.


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## Bigjim68 (Jul 1, 2008)

The thing that surprises me here is that in 20 years of vegetarianism, this is the first time that you have run into this.  In most cases I can think of on menus, the first word is the adjective describing the noun.  You got your pepperoni pizza, your herbed potatoes, your garlic chicken, your orange chicken.  I would never assume that I was getting garlic nor orange nor soy that tasted like chicken, but instead the reverse.  The exceptions to me would include a modifier, as in steak with cheese sauce, or short ribs in a wine sauce, or as a preparation description, as in a la king, marsala, or au gratin.


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## luckytrim (Jul 1, 2008)

My Local Chinese, Besides The Aforementioned "buddha's Delight", Has A Dish Called "un-done Chicken"...................don't Think I Want To Try That One.............


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## larry_stewart (Jul 1, 2008)

jennyema said:


> Isn't soy being used as an adjective in both cases? Same as your orange example?
> 
> In both cases it's being used to describe the chicken. "Soy" modifies the noun "chicken" in both cases.


 


me never claimed to be good in english 

But I guess to be technical, Soy could be referring to the sauce, not the chicken, therefore, and adjective yes, but to the sauce, not the chicken.  And is the Orange describing the beef ? or the sauce ?


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## larry_stewart (Jul 1, 2008)

And yes, it was the first time I ran into this after 20 years.   If it wasnt, then I wouldnt have made the same mistake again.  I may not learn from my english / adjective mistakes,  But I sure pay attention when it comes to food


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## ironchef (Jul 1, 2008)

The ambiguously confusing chicken. Who would've thought.


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## jennyema (Jul 1, 2008)

larry_stewart said:


> me never claimed to be good in english
> 
> But I guess to be technical, Soy could be referring to the sauce, not the chicken, therefore, and adjective yes, but to the sauce, not the chicken. And is the Orange describing the beef ? or the sauce ?


 

In the term "soy chicken," the word *soy* is modifying the word *chicken.*


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## kitchenelf (Jul 1, 2008)

Chinese restaurant, Chinese owners.........somehow dissecting a sentence just doesn't fit in here


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## knight76 (Jul 1, 2008)

One question just popped into my mind about the taste debate.

If, said person has been a vegetarian for a very long time (talking 20 years here, or even life), how can they truly know if their soy chicken impersonation, actually tastes like chicken? How can they know, they have not eaten actual chicken in 20 years?


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## elaine l (Jul 1, 2008)

A long long time ago (30 yrs?) there was a burger made from soy products.  I loved it.  I haven't seen it since then.  I am not talking about any of the veggie burgers on the market now (tried most all of them)  Those soy burgers had a flame broiled taste as I recall.   

Well Knight76 how come some people say "this tastes like cr#p?"


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## college_cook (Jul 1, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> I've never seen 'soy chicken' referred to anything other than a soy based chicken like product.  Sure, chinese restaurants use soy with chicken, but they do that in all their sauces, for the most part.  You see sesame chicken, or orange chicken, or kung pao chicken.  I've never seen it written 'soy chicken' unless it was faux chicken.



Funny, because I was going to say I've never seen 'soy chicken' written to mean anything other than a soy flavored chicken dish.  Most every chinese restaurant i've ever gone to has been pretty clear about distinguishing their vegetarian dishes, and also about distinguishing their tofu-based dishes.

To the OP:

This has been said many times already, but I'll agree again- since you and your wife have special diet requirements it falls to you to be clear about your needs, and to be informed about what you are ordering.  In this case that means crossing what sounds like a pretty thick language  barrier, but thats the cards you were dealt, unfortunately.  Like you said, at least you got a funny story and a learning experience out of it.


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## GrillingFool (Jul 1, 2008)

"tastes too real...."

Why I couldn't be a vegetarian, LOLOLOLOL!!!


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## krichardson (Jul 2, 2008)

I encourage anyone out there to try and find Soy Delight Popcorn Nuggets. They are so close to chicken that when my boss had me taste it at work I spit it out and said "I told you I'm a vegetarian"! It tastes and looks just like little chicken bites. We sell them at Whole Foods Market where I work.


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