# Re-using water bottles



## pengyou (Aug 24, 2013)

I am putting this thread here because this question is related to outdoor activities.  Are there any cautions about reusing the water bottles (usually 600ml size that you buy water in)?  I usually drink water from a water bottle over the course of an hour or two, rather than just pouring it out quickly, so my mouth comes into contact with the mouth of the bottle many times.  

If it is a good idea to reuse them - put water or coke or juice from a larger bottle, etc) what is the safest way to clean these bottles?


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## PrincessFiona60 (Aug 24, 2013)

I wash mine daily in a sink of soapy water, rinse in a sink with 1 capful of bleach and rinse again, allow to to air dry. I use a bottle for a week.  Usually have two or three going at a time, with one in the freezer half full for ice water.


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## Whiskadoodle (Aug 24, 2013)

At home I usually drink Ice tea. In a tall glass with a handle. Like a beer mug.  During the course of the day,my lips touch the rim and as the tea is drained, it leaves a small stain on the lip.   More visual.  I don['t think it matters if it is glass or plasitc.   So yes,  wash the bottle. I do this once / day when I do dishes, or take a new mug.  Water bottles are not so visual, but I suspect they get the same use and require the same cleaning.   I have several carry along water bottles which I prefer filling rather than use the flimsy sided plastic pre filled bottles that are over priced to begin with.  

Filling and putting in the freezer is a good idea too.


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## Aunt Bea (Aug 25, 2013)

The only caution I have seen is about them getting hot and releasing chemicals.

I don't know if it's true or not, why take a chance.

Bottled water in your car is very dangerous!
 On the Ellen show, Sheryl Crow said that this is what caused her
 breast cancer. It has been identified as the most common cause
 of the high levels of dioxin in breast cancer tissue..

 Sheryl Crow’s oncologist told her: women should not drink bottled
 water that has been left in a car. The heat reacts with the chemicals
 in the plastic of the bottle which releases dioxin into the water.
 Dioxin is a toxin increasingly found in breast cancer tissue. So please
 be careful and do not drink bottled water that has been left in a car.

 Pass this on to all the women in your life. This information is the kind
 we need to know that just might save us! Use a stainless steel canteen
 or a glass bottle instead of plastic!

 This information is also being circulated at Walter Reed Army Medical
 Center … No plastic containers in microwaves. No plastic water
 bottles in freezers. No plastic wrap in microwaves.

 Dioxin chemical causes cancer, especially breast cancer. Dioxins are  highly poisonous to cells in our bodies. Don’t freeze plastic bottles  with water
 in them as this releases dioxins from the plastic. Recently the Wellness
 Program Manager at Castle Hospital , was on a TV program to explain
 this health hazard.

 He talked about dioxins and how bad they are for us. He said that we
 should not be heating food in the microwave using plastic containers…..
 This especially applies to foods that contain fat.

 He said that the combination of fat, high heat and plastic releases dioxin
 into the food.

 Instead, he recommends using glass, such as Pyrex or ceramiccontainers
 for heating food… You get the same result, but without the dioxin.. So,
 such things as TV dinners, instant soups, etc., should be removed from
 their containers and heated in something else.

 Paper isn’t bad but you don’t know what is in the paper. It’s safer to
 use tempered glass, such as Pyrex, etc.

 He reminded us that a while ago some of the fast food restaurants
 moved away from the styrene foam containers to paper. The dioxin
 problem is one of the reasons….

 Also, he pointed out that plastic wrap, such as Cling film, is just as
 dangerous when placed over foods to be cooked in the microwave.
 As the food is nuked, the high heat causes poisonous toxins to actually
 melt out of the plastic wrap and drip into the food. Cover food with
 a paper towel instead.


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## DaveSoMD (Aug 25, 2013)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> I wash mine daily in a sink of soapy water, rinse in a sink with 1 capful of bleach and rinse again, allow to to air dry. I use a bottle for a week.  Usually have two or three going at a time, with one in the freezer half full for ice water.




We do the same for the sport bottle types.


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## DaveSoMD (Aug 25, 2013)

Urban legends 

Don't Drink Bottled Water Left in Car? - Urban Legends

Microwave Ovens, Plastic Wrap and Dioxin - Urban Legends


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## Steve Kroll (Aug 25, 2013)

Regardless of any urban legend surrounding plastic bottles, what's clear is that the disposable bottles are manufactured from finite resources and are bad for the environment.

Much better to buy a sports water bottle that's dishwasher safe and made be refilled as many times as you like.


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## Dawgluver (Aug 25, 2013)

Steve Kroll said:


> Regardless of any urban legend surrounding plastic bottles, what's clear is that the bottles are manufactured from finite resources and are bad for the environment.
> 
> Much better to buy a sports water bottle that's dishwasher safe and made be refilled as many times as you like.



++1.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Aug 25, 2013)

Steve Kroll said:


> Regardless of any urban legend surrounding plastic bottles, what's clear is that the disposable bottles are manufactured from finite resources and are bad for the environment.
> 
> Much better to buy a sports water bottle that's dishwasher safe and made be refilled as many times as you like.



In some municipalities the only way to get good drinking water is to purchase it in bottles.  

The only time I purchase water is when I am out and about. Those are the bottles that come home and are reused.  It's so much nicer to get a cold water when it's hot out when my sports bottle has run out. Oh and we recycle, diligently.


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## DaveSoMD (Aug 25, 2013)

We reuse the bottles until they are worn out and then recycle them. We have a water cooler in the house and refill them from that and keep them in the fridge.  At the moment we are reusing Gatorade sport bottles.


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## MostlyWater (Aug 25, 2013)

I bought a large sports bottle with stripes on it and keep it at work for sun tea; I take it home and wash it about once a month.  Ditto for the water bottle I use at work - from TJ Maxx with lips on it - and the gym, black with a holster for carrying.  They're all reusable & dishwasher safe too.


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## CraigC (Aug 26, 2013)

I have been in the "non-tourist" areas of many countries. Not only do they reuse disposable plastic bottles with minimal cleansing (rinse out), they refill them with water or juices for resale. They all seem to survive.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Aug 26, 2013)

Big, heavy gallon ceramic, or glass jug, filled with your favorite beverage is not only contaminant free, but gives your biceps a workout every time you take a swig.

Only problem is that for a milk driker like me, it's very difficult to get teh cheese curd out of that little hole in the top.  Teh whey comes out easily enough.

Yes I am strange.  Thank you, thank you.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## taxlady (Aug 26, 2013)

Some people are concerned that the plastic water bottles get dinged and bent from repeated use and that that could cause chemicals to leach into the water. There are also some inaccurate scare stories.

This is what Snopes has to say about it: snopes.com: Reuse of Plastic Bottles

I use BPA free reusable bottles. They were cheap.


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## Chef Munky (Aug 26, 2013)

Anyone else wondering why Sheryl Crow can't go home for a glass of water?
Us Commoners do it everyday. Boy, when we were kids Mom let us drink from the garden hose. How dare she!!! 

We use them once then recycle. Keep a few that aren't to be used but kept frozen for small ice chests. They make great crackling sounds in dog toys they love them. BAD BUNNY!!! BAAAAAD! CRUNCH-CRUNCH!!...


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## Mad Cook (Aug 27, 2013)

pengyou said:


> I am putting this thread here because this question is related to outdoor activities. Are there any cautions about reusing the water bottles (usually 600ml size that you buy water in)? I usually drink water from a water bottle over the course of an hour or two, rather than just pouring it out quickly, so my mouth comes into contact with the mouth of the bottle many times.
> 
> If it is a good idea to reuse them - put water or coke or juice from a larger bottle, etc) what is the safest way to clean these bottles?


I usually keep a bottle of mineral water in the car so I can have a quick slurp when I need it. So I often drink from a bottle that has been opened for a few days. I was recently told that this was not a good idea as the plastic degrades in sunlight (what sunlight - this is Briain!) and the heat of the car. Not sure whether there is any truth or science in this but it suggests that bottles should be kept in the cold and dark even when empty.


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## CraigC (Aug 27, 2013)

Mad Cook said:


> I usually keep a bottle of mineral water in the car so I can have a quick slurp when I need it. So I often drink from a bottle that has been opened for a few days. I was recently told that this was not a good idea as the plastic degrades in sunlight (what sunlight - this is Briain!) and the heat of the car. Not sure whether there is any truth or science in this but it suggests that bottles should be kept in the cold and dark even when empty.


 
Most of the countries I was talking about in my post above, are in the tropics.


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## Addie (Aug 27, 2013)

I don't buy water. Our municipal supply is very good. I do have one bottle that I refill and keep in the fridge. I take it to Winthrop with me every time I go there. By the time I arrive, the bottle is empty and I refill it at their large bottled water supply. I used to have a pitcher in the fridge that had a filter on it. It just sat there and I never reached for it for a drink. Just opened the faucet and took a drink from the hose. Still do that on occasion. Revisiting moments of my childhood when I drank from the garden hose. And I didn't die. 

I do wash or rinse out the  plastic bottle every so often. And I am still not dead. I am terrible at keeping myself hydrated. That bottle of water is the only way I drink water. I should drink more. I am working on it. First I have to develop a taste for water.


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## DaveSoMD (Aug 27, 2013)

Mad Cook said:


> I usually keep a bottle of mineral water in the car so I can have a quick slurp when I need it. So I often drink from a bottle that has been opened for a few days. I was recently told that this was not a good idea as the plastic degrades in sunlight (what sunlight - this is Briain!) and the heat of the car. Not sure whether there is any truth or science in this but it suggests that bottles should be kept in the cold and dark even when empty.



Yes, plastic breaks down after long exposure to sunlight, and I mean weeks/months not days.  It has to do with the long term exposure to the UV rays.


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## tinlizzie (Jan 20, 2014)

I buy water in plastic bottles before hurricane season comes.  I'm on a well, and if the power went out, I'd have no water.  Then, at the end of the season I feel obliged to drink what hasn't been used -- it costs too much to water flowers with it.  The bottles have been sitting all summer.  I don't know how else I could guarantee a temporary water supply.

I recycle most of the empties, but save some.  When my rose bushes are putting out lots of flowers, I use an empty as a throw-away bud vase and take a rose to the reception desk at the doctor's office -- or the post office, etc.  Like Sara Lee, seems nobody doesn't like rose buds.

If I were to buy a carton of glass canning jars with screw lids, could I fill them with tap water and keep them over the summer months?  Would that be safer?  And would running them through the dishwasher before filling be sufficient sterilization?

I think keeping an emergency water supply on hand would be good to have almost anywhere, not just here in hurricane-land.


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## GA Home Cook (Jan 20, 2014)

From a chemist's point of view, I use a BPH free bottle to keep my water in.  I wash it every day and allow it to air dry before putting the lid on.  Why take the chance?  The growth of micro organisms grow faster in a clean water environment, when they are no preservatives present.  In our business we are very sensitive to micro organisms inthe production of shampoo, body wash and other water containing products.  We NEVER use charcoal type filters, which remove the preservative in water.  These are always loaded with microbs within a few houra of use.  Because of this reason I would avoid filters the "clean and purify water".  Especially the type you pour water through and then let it sit to "filter".  In most cases these microbs will clean your colon at worst.  But there are some that will grow (gram negatives) that can cause some ugly things.  Additionally the nastiest part of your body can be your mouth.  So using a bottle over several days would not be recommended.


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## CarolPa (Jan 20, 2014)

My husband was terrible at drinking water.  All he ever got was what he drank to take his pills.  After our visit to Las Vagas where drinking water is mandatory to live, he was used to drinking bottled water so we now keep it on hand.  To me, if it's going to get him to drink water, it's worth it.


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## cave76 (Jan 20, 2014)

steve kroll said:


> regardless of any urban legend surrounding plastic bottles, what's clear is that the disposable bottles are manufactured from finite resources and are bad for the environment.
> 
> Much better to buy a sports water bottle that's dishwasher safe and made be refilled as many times as you like.



*ditto*

Read about the Pacific gyre at:
Great Pacific garbage patch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's not an urban legend.


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## Aunt Bea (Jan 20, 2014)

tinlizzie said:


> I buy water in plastic bottles before hurricane season comes.  I'm on a well, and if the power went out, I'd have no water.  Then, at the end of the season I feel obliged to drink what hasn't been used -- it costs too much to water flowers with it.  The bottles have been sitting all summer.  I don't know how else I could guarantee a temporary water supply.
> 
> I recycle most of the empties, but save some.  When my rose bushes are putting out lots of flowers, I use an empty as a throw-away bud vase and take a rose to the reception desk at the doctor's office -- or the post office, etc.  Like Sara Lee, seems nobody doesn't like rose buds.
> 
> ...



This reminds me of the green cans of crackers and water they used to stockpile in the government fallout shelters, why didn't they stockpile wine and chocolates? 

This might help answer your questions.

http://www.caes.uga.edu/extension/taylor/fcs/documents/PreparinganEmergencyFoodSupplyWater.pdf


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jan 21, 2014)

tinlizzie said:


> I buy water in plastic bottles before hurricane season comes.  I'm on a well, and if the power went out, I'd have no water.  Then, at the end of the season I feel obliged to drink what hasn't been used -- it costs too much to water flowers with it.  The bottles have been sitting all summer.  I don't know how else I could guarantee a temporary water supply.
> 
> I recycle most of the empties, but save some.  When my rose bushes are putting out lots of flowers, I use an empty as a throw-away bud vase and take a rose to the reception desk at the doctor's office -- or the post office, etc.  Like Sara Lee, seems nobody doesn't like rose buds.
> 
> ...



I keep a couple of cases of bottled water on hand, they are switched out the same time we change the batteries in the smoke alarms and I take the older bottles to work with me.  I refill those for a week and then recycle the bottles.

I think the idea of using glass jars is okay as long as you have the space for them, but you do need to be careful of lids rusting. The plastic bottles are also non-breakable, where the glass is breakable.


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## Addie (Jan 21, 2014)

If you have small children in the home, then due care needs to be taken with the glass containers. Otherwise, for just adults, I would prefer the glass over the plastic.


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## Mad Cook (Jan 21, 2014)

pengyou said:


> I am putting this thread here because this question is related to outdoor activities. Are there any cautions about reusing the water bottles (usually 600ml size that you buy water in)? I usually drink water from a water bottle over the course of an hour or two, rather than just pouring it out quickly, so my mouth comes into contact with the mouth of the bottle many times.
> 
> If it is a good idea to reuse them - put water or coke or juice from a larger bottle, etc) what is the safest way to clean these bottles?


I read recently that it isn't a good idea. The same article said that it isn't advisable to keep a bottle of water in the car. According to the article chemicals (dioxins and others) from the plastic can leach out into the water especially in heat and sunlight.

 However the Cancer Research UK (CRUK) website says that this is a hoax and comes from emails and the articles stemming from them which spread the story about the "dangers" of re-using the bottles generally warn people about freezing water in plastic bottles, reusing plastic water bottles, leaving plastic bottles in cars and microwaving food in plastic containers or covered with plastic films.

 CRUK (the world's largest independent cancer research charity) says there is no convincing scientific evidence to back up these claims or to suggest that any of these products could cause cancer. Some of these emails credit the warnings about plastics to Johns Hopkins University in America, but CRUK says that JHU has denied any involvement in them. 

 However, this doesn't approach the problem of germs breeding on the neck of the bottle.


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## Mad Cook (Jan 21, 2014)

Steve Kroll said:


> Regardless of any urban legend surrounding plastic bottles, what's clear is that the disposable bottles are manufactured from finite resources and are bad for the environment.
> 
> Much better to buy a sports water bottle that's dishwasher safe and made be refilled as many times as you like.


Here, here!


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## Rocket_J_Dawg (Jan 21, 2014)

We buy a case of water in 500ml bottles every week. We use them once and then they get recycled. So long as all plastics are sent for recycling, there is no environmental impact to the landfills. All plastics can be reused except for styrofoam because there is no market for it. I pushed our purchasing dept. at work a few years ago to approach our suppliers to get rid of styrofoam in their packaging as we would no longer accept it. These are companies like IBM, HP and EMC. They have all complied and now use molded cardboard replacing the styrofoam.


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## taxlady (Jan 21, 2014)

Rocket_J_Dawg said:


> We buy a case of water in 500ml bottles every week. We use them once and then they get recycled. So long as all plastics are sent for recycling, there is no environmental impact to the landfills. All plastics can be reused except for styrofoam because there is no market for it. I pushed our purchasing dept. at work a few years ago to approach our suppliers to get rid of styrofoam in their packaging as we would no longer accept it. These are companies like IBM, HP and EMC. They have all complied and now use molded cardboard replacing the styrofoam.


That's only good if your city actually recycles the stuff they collect for recycling. Apparently Montreal only actually recycles about 5% of what they collect as recycling. The other 95% goes in the landfill along with the regular garbage. 

I'm not sure what Dollard-des-Ormeaux, the city where I live, does.


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## Dawgluver (Jan 21, 2014)

One of the little towns around here thought they were recycling, but their service was just picking up the recyclbles and dumping them into the landfill.  I think they fired the guy who authorized the dumping.


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## CarolPa (Jan 22, 2014)

Our recycling started out being mandatory, but ended up being voluntary.  We quit when we saw the garbage man pick up the recycling bins and dump them in the garbage truck.  We only had recycling for glass and aluminum cans.  There is a truck that comes around to pick them up for recycling, but no one knows when they are coming.  Now we crush and cash in our cans at the recycle center.  Also, our community center recycles newspaper to pay for fireworks on Independence Day.  

We take our plastic grocery bags back for recycling.  I don't know what they do with them.


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## Andy M. (Jan 22, 2014)

SO bought a couple of silicone covered glass bottles for water, etc. on the go.  She got them from Whole Foods.  http://www.lifefactory.com/product/...ap-rasp-9-oz?gclid=COneq72NkrwCFcFj7Aod0mcAxQ

It's heavy glass and sturdy.  It held up well until she left it in the car full of water and it froze and cracked.


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## CarolPa (Jan 22, 2014)

I've never seen these bottles, Andy.  Looks like a good idea.  I'll have to look around for them.


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## Addie (Jan 22, 2014)

CarolPa said:


> Our recycling started out being mandatory, but ended up being voluntary.  We quit when we saw the garbage man pick up the recycling bins and dump them in the garbage truck.  We only had recycling for glass and aluminum cans.  There is a truck that comes around to pick them up for recycling, but no one knows when they are coming.  Now we crush and cash in our cans at the recycle center.  Also, our community center recycles newspaper to pay for fireworks on Independence Day.
> 
> We take our plastic grocery bags back for recycling.  I don't know what they do with them.



Our Recycle truck goes right behind the trash truck. Don't get stuck driving behind them. You could be a few hours late for your appointment. The recycle truck has three bins. One each for metal, glass and paper products. Our recycle containers are on the first floor. Some of the folks on the second floor will bring their stuff down there. Most of us don't. And forget the folks on the third floor. The problem is the size of the trash rooms on the 2nd and 3rd floors. Just big enough to hold four large trash cans with covers.


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## Andy M. (Jan 22, 2014)

CarolPa said:


> I've never seen these bottles, Andy.  Looks like a good idea.  I'll have to look around for them.



The link gives the price @ $14.00 but I believe she paid around $7.00.  Plastic bottles irritate her lips so she seldom drinks from plastic.


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## cave76 (Jan 23, 2014)

Dawgluver said:


> One of the little towns around here thought they were recycling, but their service was just picking up the recyclbles and dumping them into the landfill.  I think they fired the guy who authorized the dumping.



I've collected a lot of articles about recycling and some of them aren't exactly reassuring. And nothing is easy or cheap, to do it right.

Here is just one city's experience:
http://www.registerguard.com/rg/news/local/30722192-75/glass-curbside-landfills-recycling-bottles.html.csp

I continue to 'recycle' but I don't have my rose-tinted glasses (pun intended) on when I do it. Every little bit helps and I hope that eventually it will all get sorted out (pun intended).

Since China implemented their Green Fence Initiative we can no longer send so much of our (mainly) plastic waste there. But where is it going?


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## Roll_Bones (Jan 23, 2014)

Steve Kroll said:


> Regardless of any urban legend surrounding plastic bottles, what's clear is that the disposable bottles are manufactured from finite resources and are bad for the environment.
> Much better to buy a sports water bottle that's dishwasher safe and made be refilled as many times as you like.



I agree and take it even further.  First bottled water is not free, its expensive and tap water while not free is maybe thousands times less expensive.
Second. Disposable plastic water bottles are frankly stupid.  They are a scourge to our planet and take many many, years to decompose.
My suggestion is to put a deposit on plastic water bottles or outlaw them completely.
Should an empty disposable water bottle have a value, I bet it would not take long to see them disappear from roadsides and the ocean.



Mad Cook said:


> I read recently that it isn't a good idea. The same article said that it isn't advisable to keep a bottle of water in the car. According to the article chemicals (dioxins and others) from the plastic can leach out into the water especially in heat and sunlight.
> 
> However the Cancer Research UK (CRUK) website says that this is a hoax and comes from emails and the articles stemming from them which spread the story about the "dangers" of re-using the bottles generally warn people about freezing water in plastic bottles, reusing plastic water bottles, leaving plastic bottles in cars and microwaving food in plastic containers or covered with plastic films.
> 
> ...



I would assume that those against disposable plastic bottles for any reason are not the same people who make their livings from these bottles.
You must always look hard at where these facts come from before deciding who to believe.

I personally NEVER EVER purchase bottles water.  We are fortunate that we have very good tap water.  I am of the opinion that disposable plastic water bottles must go or they must be assigned a value.


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## cave76 (Jan 23, 2014)

Roll_Bones said:


> My suggestion is to put a deposit on plastic water bottles or outlaw them completely.
> Should an empty disposable water bottle have a value, I bet it would not take long to see them disappear from roadsides and the ocean.
> 
> *I would assume that those against disposable plastic bottles for any reason are not the same people who make their livings from these bottles.*
> ...



*Bazinga!
Bazinga!
Bazinga!*

I'll have to look up how much  money is spent in lobbying by those manufacturers of plastic bottles. I'm going to guess a ***t-load! 

_Cui bono_---- or follow the money. It's always there!


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## cave76 (Jan 23, 2014)

Ocean Trash Art ---plastic soda bottle tops, lighters, misc bits of plastic

http://stephenleahy.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/debris-art-fish-tops-lighters.jpg?w=700

A sad commentary.


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## Mad Cook (Jan 23, 2014)

Rocket_J_Dawg said:


> We buy a case of water in 500ml bottles every week. We use them once and then they get recycled. So long as all plastics are sent for recycling, there is no environmental impact to the landfills. All plastics can be reused except for styrofoam because there is no market for it. I pushed our purchasing dept. at work a few years ago to approach our suppliers to get rid of styrofoam in their packaging as we would no longer accept it. These are companies like IBM, HP and EMC. They have all complied and now use molded cardboard replacing the styrofoam.


 
 But there is an argument that the costs and energy used in collection and transportation of plastics for recycling detract from (and outweigh) the costs and energy saved in the production process. Better to reuse your plastic bottles and if you absolutely MUST have bottled water buy it in big containers and decant into your saved smaller bottles. However, I assume that where you are you have a safe, clean, piped water supply?

 Even better was the old method we used to have in the UK where glass soft drink bottles, beer bottles and jam jars had a returnable deposit on them - only a few pennies but worthwhile returning your "empties" to the shop or worth small boys collecting them and returning them to supplement their pocket money. We still have doorstep deliveries of milk in returnable glass bottles. Much better than plastic containers.

 A couple of the companies I deal with have started using packaging "peanuts" made of corn starch rather than polystyrene ones.


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## Mad Cook (Jan 23, 2014)

cave76 said:


> I've collected a lot of articles about recycling and some of them aren't exactly reassuring. And nothing is easy or cheap, to do it right.
> 
> Here is just one city's experience:
> ‘Recycled’ at the landfill | Local News | The Register-Guard | Eugene, Oregon
> ...


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## cave76 (Jan 23, 2014)

MC said:
"  shipping it half way round the world isn't exactly eco-friendly" 

_Right! They don't realize that "our world" is one world._

" cakes each had a foil container and they sat in a plastic tray, inside a sealed plastic bag, inside a cardboard box, inside a sealed cellophane wrapper." 

_Yeppers! Of course maybe we should also thank the Tylenol Murderer a few years back? Seven people died and a lot of packaging manufacturers jumped on that as a way to make more money. (Not that I'm ticked off about the safety of that------not at all. I'm the first one to *not* take a package that looks messed with!)_

But-----


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## taxlady (Jan 23, 2014)

Sweden seems to be doing a good job of waste management:

Sweden wants Norway's trash (and lots of it)


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## cave76 (Jan 23, 2014)

taxlady said:


> Sweden seems to be doing a good job of waste management:
> 
> Sweden wants Norway's trash (and lots of it)



That's interesting and hopeful. Thanks for sending the article.

" waste will be valued even more." 

That's like making lemonade out of lemons. 

[I'm going to start a different thread in Off Topic for the rest of my unsolicited comments ----- I'm straying way away from the original topic here. I'll call it Advertising Pharmaceuticals.]

http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f26/advertising-pharmceuticals-88759.html#post1338966


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