# Question for Steak experts (T-Bone)



## rush (Mar 2, 2011)

Recently, I've been getting more acquainted with steak cuts. I'll always be a burger-and-fries guy, but there's something about the simplicity of a nice chunk of steak. 

So far, I've tries three cuts - top sirloin, ribeye, and NY strip steak.

The top sirloin was very tough and chewy, even when cooked to medium. I think I'm gonna reserve this cut for burgers in the future. It was $2 a pound.

I read that NY strip steak was a class above the top sirloin, but they were pretty identical to me. Tough and chewy, and even the fat was like rubber. It was $3 a pound. 

The ribeye was very soft, and it was easily the best tasting cut of the three. I understand that ribeye has a lot of marbling, so it's soft, but even the meat alone seemed soft on it's own. It was $4 a pound. 

With all that outta the way, I decided to try out the t-bone steak tomorrow. It's $4 per pound, like the ribeye. Not sure if that's a good price, but it's supposed to be on sale, so I'll give it a shot. 

My questions...

1. How does it stack up against the ribeye? 'Cause they cost the same...

2. I read that the t-bone is composed of the tenderloin and short loin. What kinda cuts are these? Are they softer than top sirloin and NY strip? I also read the NY strip is cut acquired from the short loin, so maybe it's the same thing...

3. What's the difference between tenderloin and short loin? Not so much the anatomical differences, but the texture and taste...

Thanks, as always!


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## NAchef (Mar 2, 2011)

I can't answer some of those questions but with my experience you need to find a place with the best quality, only taste will tell the difference.

Today I only buy steak for stirfry or those special dinners. When I do it is generally ribeye, Prime grade. I have bought the Prime ribeye at a number of places and there is a HUGE difference (at least in my area). Those prices seems VERY cheap to me, it seems as though NY or Ribeye (Choice grade) goes for about $8-10/lb, when I buy Prime grade it is $17/lb

Taste will vary GREATLY on the quality of the meat, so find different places in your area and see which has the best. I do most my grocery shopping at a local place but I never buy meat there, I have found a good place and will go out of my way for it.


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## Rob Babcock (Mar 2, 2011)

Wow, where are you buying your meat?  In my neck of the woods sirloins are around $5 per pound, with New Yorks running in the $6.50/lb range.  Ribeyes generally cost around $7-8.50/lb!  And beef you're getting at those prices probably will be pretty tough, unless you're in some part of the planet where the economics of things is very different.

There are many grades of beef.  The lowest you generally find in stores is Commercial or the somewhat better Select.  This is certainly edible but generally lacks marbling and isn't as flavorful as better grades.  Anything below Select will generally be a poor choice for steaks unless you're going to tenderize it or braise it.  Choice beef is considerably better and usually the best you'll find in a typical supermarket.  This is what most restaurants will use.  Prime beef is superb but very expensive; very little beef is graded Prime.  It will be well marbled and generally very tender.

There are several cuts that are all considered Sirloins.  In your average grocery the coulette steak will be left on the loin and cut as part of the sirloin.  Other times it will be removed and cut separately.  A good sirloin shouldn't be tough, although it's not as tender as a ribeye.

A New York shouldn't be tough, either.  Overall the Ribeye is cut from a part of the animal that does less work, so it's even more tender.  If all you're concerned about is tenderness, the filet is the most tender.  As you mention, a T-bone basically has a filet eye on one side and a NY strip on the other.  It's a terrific cut of meat but expensive, and there's a bit of waste from all the bone.  The texture of all those steaks will vary depending on where they're cut.  For instance, the loin a ribeye is cut from has two ends.  On end where the Delmonico is cut from has less fat and is a bit more chewy.  The other end is more marbled, more tender and (IMOHO) has better flavor.

Sometimes a marinate can improve the texture.  Also, you can get a multi-bladed tenderizer called a Jaccard that does a very good job of tenderizing tougher cuts.  Many restaurants use them.  They sever some of the fibres, making the meat more tender.  And perhaps counterintuitively, since those fibres constrict less, less moisture is forces out and the meat remains more juicy.

The Cliff Notes version:

1) Generally filet is the most tender.  It's also about $9.50 a pound, and most steak connoisseurs don't consider it all that flavorful.

2) Ribeye is about the next most tender and has better flavor.  It's tough to beat a ribeye.  IMO probably the very best part of the cow comes from the ribeye and is called the spinalis dorsi.  It's sometimes called the cap.  It's wonderfully marbled, very tender and supremely flavorful.  If you don't like spinalis you don't like beef!
3) A _good _New York is on par with about any steak you can get.  But you're wise to pick one that doesn't contain an "scar" and that's well marbled.

4) A good T-bone is also sublime.

5) Your opinion of sirloin will likely change when you try a good one.


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## NAchef (Mar 2, 2011)

Nice post Rob!

Here is another link with MORE info than you may want. Beef - Large index of beef processing tips, facts and guides for the consumer. Food safety information, beef cooking hints, and meat buying guide, beef freezer storage chart and more.


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## Bolas De Fraile (Mar 2, 2011)

Over here T Bone is about the same price as rib eye because of the inedible bone.
My take on steak is it must be hung for a min of 30 days, reared within 20 miles of the abattoir, if you cannot find or afford this don't buy cheap steak, buy a different cheaper cut like shin or skirt and cook it appropriately you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
Fillet if properly aged is full flavoured but lacks texture due to the fact it is a non working muscle.
Before PC arrived in the UK Fillet was known as a womans steak


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## Midnight_Merlot (Mar 2, 2011)

I happen to be a slave to a proper fillet of migon nowadays, but,...for dicucssion purposes, I simply die for the smaller side of a t-bone, &, lay "claim" to the bone as well...(those bits are 97% of the time undercooked...yums for me! )LOL
Sirloin, well, if you take proper care of it prior to cooking (meaning a good mirinade that consists of numerous different ways to get the cut to "break down" or ""soften" will help by leaps & bounds. Beer, brine, acidicity, carbonation, sugars, & salts just to name a few will help in breaking down a sirloins "beefy" texture. 
As for a strip, well, I really don't ever buy nor cook them. I do know however, that, that particular cut has quite a following.
Myself, I am a ribeye gal all around. Sometimes even, I go w/a cheaper cut of chuck-eye. They both aim to please ME, &...I have thus far had around 95% satisfaction in my preferred cuts.
Steak is steak...just really kiinda boils down on how you cook it, &, what you have done to it before cooking has commenced. It's fun when you get it "right"!!, &,..I wish you gobs of luck!


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## Bolas De Fraile (Mar 2, 2011)

Merl, I am lucky, I buy a "Choice Cut" ( rump,sirloin and fillet on the bone) from my local abattoir, I like the Welsh Black breed, it is smaller and takes longer to reach slaughter weight, the piece is then hung for 36 to 40 days, I then take the meat of the bone(the trimmings make excellent burgers the bones I use for stock, I dont have the ability to cut T bones)I break down the sirlion into two cuts, steaks and the trad UK cut for roasting rolled sirlion (the fatty rib flap wraps the center steak) both cuts eat well with good flavour and texture.

Tip I roast the bones make the stock then reduce it down to a whipping cream thickness and freeze in an ice cube tray, I also use the American Foodsaver Vacpac machine to keep my meat in prime condition in the freezer


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## rush (Mar 2, 2011)

Rob Babcock said:


> Wow, where are you buying your meat? In my neck of the woods sirloins are around $5 per pound, with New Yorks running in the $6.50/lb range. Ribeyes generally cost around $7-8.50/lb! And beef you're getting at those prices probably will be pretty tough, unless you're in some part of the planet where the economics of things is very different.


 
You're probably purchasing USDA Choice. 

The steaks I get are not from some fancy shmancy butcher. It's either from Vons or Ralphs. Vons (Safeway) carries Ranchers Reserve steaks. That's where I got the top sirloin for $2/lb, and ribeye for $4/lb. Ribeye actually turned out pretty good. 

I got the NY strip steak ($3) from Ralphs, which carries USDA Select. 

And I'll be purchasing USDA Select T-bones later today... 

I know that the quality is lacking in these grades, but this is as upscale as it gets for me. At this point, it's hard to justify spending $8-20/lb on Choice/Prime meats, when I can get 30 Foster Farm drumsticks for $8 at Costco. 

Then again, that's probably why my experience with top sirloin/NY strip has been lousy. I didn't know quality steaks had such a high price.


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## rush (Mar 2, 2011)

Rob Babcock said:


> There are many grades of beef. The lowest you generally find in stores is Commercial or the somewhat better Select. This is certainly edible but generally lacks marbling and isn't as flavorful as better grades. Anything below Select will generally be a poor choice for steaks unless you're going to tenderize it or braise it. Choice beef is considerably better and usually the best you'll find in a typical supermarket. This is what most restaurants will use. Prime beef is superb but very expensive; very little beef is graded Prime. It will be well marbled and generally very tender.
> 
> There are several cuts that are all considered Sirloins. In your average grocery the coulette steak will be left on the loin and cut as part of the sirloin. Other times it will be removed and cut separately. A good sirloin shouldn't be tough, although it's not as tender as a ribeye.
> 
> ...


 
Wow, you certainly know your cattle. 

Very knowledgeable post. Thanks a lot!

Question: What is the "filet eye?" Is that the same as a filet mignon?


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## rush (Mar 2, 2011)

NAchef said:


> I can't answer some of those questions but with my experience you need to find a place with the best quality, only taste will tell the difference.
> 
> Today I only buy steak for stirfry or those special dinners. When I do it is generally ribeye, Prime grade. I have bought the Prime ribeye at a number of places and there is a HUGE difference (at least in my area). Those prices seems VERY cheap to me, it seems as though NY or Ribeye (Choice grade) goes for about $8-10/lb, when I buy Prime grade it is $17/lb
> 
> Taste will vary GREATLY on the quality of the meat, so find different places in your area and see which has the best. I do most my grocery shopping at a local place but I never buy meat there, I have found a good place and will go out of my way for it.


 
Thanks, all of my steaks have been mediocre Select or Ranchers Reserve. 

I don't think any of the markets near me, even bother carrying Choice, let alone Prime.

Costco carries Prime grade, but it's way above my pay grade. I guess I'll have to return to burgers, once my steak excursion ends.


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## rush (Mar 2, 2011)

NAchef said:


> Nice post Rob!
> 
> Here is another link with MORE info than you may want. Beef - Large index of beef processing tips, facts and guides for the consumer. Food safety information, beef cooking hints, and meat buying guide, beef freezer storage chart and more.


 
Egats, that website is just really cluttered and all over the place. Thanks, though.


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## rush (Mar 2, 2011)

Bolas De Fraile said:


> Over here T Bone is about the same price as rib eye because of the inedible bone.
> My take on steak is it must be hung for a min of 30 days, reared within 20 miles of the abattoir, if you cannot find or afford this don't buy cheap steak, buy a different cheaper cut like shin or skirt and cook it appropriately you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
> Fillet if properly aged is full flavoured but lacks texture due to the fact it is a non working muscle.
> Before PC arrived in the UK Fillet was known as a womans steak


 
Why do you recommend skirt or shin? Are they softer? Yet cheaper? How does that work?


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## Selkie (Mar 2, 2011)

The cut, and my preferred steak, is the Porterhouse.

 In answer to your question, yes, a filet Mignon and filet eye are the same thing.

The Porterhouse is kind of a composite steak coming from the  point where the tenderloin and top loin meet. Basically an over-sized  T-Bone steak the porterhouse is thicker cut and has much more of the  tenderloin relative to the loin portion. If you remove the bone and cut  out the two steaks that basically make up this steak you will get a  tenderloin steak and a top loin (or New York Strip Steak). So if you are  ordering a Porterhouse, I hope you're hungry.


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## rush (Mar 2, 2011)

Midnight_Merlot said:


> I happen to be a slave to a proper fillet of migon nowadays, but,...for dicucssion purposes, I simply die for the smaller side of a t-bone, &, lay "claim" to the bone as well...(those bits are 97% of the time undercooked...yums for me! )LOL
> Sirloin, well, if you take proper care of it prior to cooking (meaning a good mirinade that consists of numerous different ways to get the cut to "break down" or ""soften" will help by leaps & bounds. Beer, brine, acidicity, carbonation, sugars, & salts just to name a few will help in breaking down a sirloins "beefy" texture.
> As for a strip, well, I really don't ever buy nor cook them. I do know however, that, that particular cut has quite a following.
> Myself, I am a ribeye gal all around. Sometimes even, I go w/a cheaper cut of chuck-eye. They both aim to please ME, &...I have thus far had around 95% satisfaction in my preferred cuts.
> Steak is steak...just really kiinda boils down on how you cook it, &, what you have done to it before cooking has commenced. It's fun when you get it "right"!!, &,..I wish you gobs of luck!


 
I've never brined anything. What kinda brine would you recommend for steak? 

And how much will brining improve a top sirloin steak? Will it become as soft as a prime rib?


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## rush (Mar 2, 2011)

Selkie said:


> The cut, and my preferred steak, between a rib-eye and a filet (yes, a filet Mignon and filiet eye are the same thing) is the Porterhouse. A Porterhouse is the best part of a rib-eye.


 
Who with the what?

I'm sorta confused.

I read that the porter house is basically a t-bone with a bigger piece of tenderloin (filet eye).

But you're saying that the porterhouse is a subsection of the ribeye? 

I wish we had classes at school that taught this stuff... memorize the geography of a cow, instead of the U.S.


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## Selkie (Mar 2, 2011)

The tenderloin, which is the large center section of the rib-eye is also the larger section of a porterhouse (same muscle). the tenderloin on a t-bone is the smaller side, so what you get is more tenderloin from a porterhouse, with some marbling on the other side of the bone. Besides, I like the flavor the roasted bone gives to the rest of the steak, unlike a rib-eye.


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## jennyema (Mar 2, 2011)

Your bad experience with steak is because you are buying a very cheap grade of beef.  If you want to enjoy steak, maybe save up and buy better quality meat.  I honestly have never seen steak for sale fir $2 pound in probably 20 years.

A TBone and Porterhouse are basically the same thing.  A filet mignon on one side and a NY strip on the other side.  Tbones usually have a bigger filet.  They are good steaks, but for your purposes probably not worth the extra money if its low quality meat.

You can't brine beef and get the same results as you get with poultry or shrimp.

One idea would buy some round steak of a higher quality, marinate it, grill it to medium rare, and slice it thinly against the grain: London Broil.


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## CraigC (Mar 2, 2011)

Rush, with the quality, or lack thereof, of the cuts you are purchasing, your best bet is to treat them like chuck.  Trying to compare the grades you are purchasing with prime grade or better is not worth discussing. 

Craig


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## pacanis (Mar 2, 2011)

I buy cheap steaks to always have some in the freezer. Not as cheap as you, Rush, but pretty darn cheap for my area. It's so cheap there isn't even a grade stamped on it. A couple years ago I think I payed 2.99/lb for strip and last year 3.99/lb for ribeye. I buy the whole loin and cut them myself (although the grocery store offers free cutting). The trick is to buy one with the most marbling. If none of them look good, I wait until they set some new ones out. I would rather buy a cheap ribeye than an expensive sirloin, but that's my taste. My preference is for rare and that's how I cook them. They are always tender and juicy. Sometimes I will treat myself to a better grade from behind the counter. There is an appreciable difference, but since I like to eat steak a lot the cheaper grade suits me fine, as long as there is some decent marbling. Without that marbling you might as well grind it up into lean hamburger.


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## Selkie (Mar 2, 2011)

jennyema said:


> ... Tbones usually have a bigger filet.


I believe you have it backward... the porterhouse has the larger filet The definition describes that, and the difference in price from a t-bone reflects that.


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## powerplantop (Mar 2, 2011)

rush said:


> Thanks, all of my steaks have been mediocre Select or Ranchers Reserve.


 
Ranchers Reserve is a brand not a grade. 

For more info on grades go to the source.
Inspection & Grading of Meat and Poultry: What Are the Differences?

A good chart for cuts of beef can be found here.
http://consumer.certifiedangusbeef.com/cuts/beef_cuts_poster_4047.pdf


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## powerplantop (Mar 2, 2011)

Selkie said:


> The tenderloin, which is the large center section of the rib-eye


 
Sorry but this is not correct. The tenderloin comes from the Loin Primal, the rib eye comes from the Rib Primal.


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## Bolas De Fraile (Mar 2, 2011)

rush said:


> Why do you recommend skirt or shin? Are they softer? Yet cheaper? How does that work?


Rush what I tried to convey is if you cannot afford or get quality steak of any cut dont bother with cheap junk, the cheaper cut like skirt or shin will taste better after in shins case long slow cooking than a poor piece of steak.


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## Bigjim68 (Mar 2, 2011)

Here are my basic rules of steak purchasing:

You are not going to buy a steakable steak for 2 bucks a pound.  At the local  Costco, choice ribeyes and strips are around $8-10.  Prime a couple of dollars more. 

There are basically only 3 primals producing steaks.  These are the rib, loin, and to a lesser extent, the round.  Ribeye, filet, strip are just boneless versions of these.  Bone in are self explanatory and most contain two of the boneless + the bone.  Differences between porterhouse, T bone, Delmonico, etc, have to do with these proportions.

The location if the steak within these primals is important.  The difference between a chuck roast and the first rib steak is a knife cut.  Likewise between the rib -loin and loin round.  Generally speaking, the closer to the center of the critter, the better the steak.

Aging is important.  Most supermarket steak has little, if any age.  There are two reasons, cost, and the fact that aged meat loses the bright red color that some buyers favor.  The choices with the consumer concerning aging are to pay the price for dry aged restuarant quality staek, somewhere in the $12 +/lb range, or purchase sub primal cuts in Cryovac and age it wet yourself.  Prime grade ribeyes here are about $8/pound.  Around 45 - 60 days works for me, from packing date.   The date of packing is stamped on the box, and the butcher should be able to get it for you.  Just store the unbroken package in the referigerator.

Grades are preceded by USDA and choice and prime are IMO the only steak grades.  Names like Angus, Butchers Select, Farmers Best, are trade names.  They may mean something, they may not.

For me, being a good consumer means a rudimentary knowledge of the product I am buying.  Many good butchers will take the time to give you a crash course in meet cuts.  People like Rob, who buy and cook more steak in a night than most of us do in a year, are worth listening to. The internet has good information.

If your budget limits you to less than market price, you are probably better off without steak.  Other critters, like pork and fowl, and creative cooking of lesser cuts of beef are a better option.


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## 4meandthem (Mar 2, 2011)

I buy New Yorks and Rib-Eyes for grilling steaks.
I love the Porterhouse and T-bone but the ones in my supermarket are crap.The filet is usually stripped off the T-bone completely and the porterhouses are never cut thick enough and they look more like a T-Bone.

I find a 1/2 hour soak in soy sauce will really improve the beefy/umami flavor of supermarket steaks.(no more)

I will sometimes pound my New Yorks with my fist a few times before marinating to help tenderize them a little.

I also reccommend cooking a steak with as much heat as you can muster. Hot and fast makes a more tender steak. Slow is for other cuts of meat and will toughen steaks.

I also buy mine on the cheap and freeze them. This will toughen them a bit too but I find the price savings more valueable to me.


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## Bigjim68 (Mar 2, 2011)

4meandthem said:


> I buy New Yorks and Rib-Eyes for grilling steaks.
> I love the Porterhouse and T-bone but the ones in my supermarket are crap.The filet is usually stripped off the T-bone completely and the porterhouses are never cut thick enough and they look more like a T-Bone.
> 
> I find a 1/2 hour soak in soy sauce will really improve the beefy/umami flavor of supermarket steaks.(no more)
> ...


I think a T bone with the filet stripped is called a shell or bone in strip.


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## 4meandthem (Mar 2, 2011)

Bigjim68 said:


> I think a T bone with the filet stripped is called a shell or bone in strip.


 

They leave the T-shaped bone and the smell of the filet on it!


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## Midnight_Merlot (Mar 3, 2011)

rush said:


> I've never brined anything. What kinda brine would you recommend for steak?
> 
> And how much will brining improve a top sirloin steak? Will it become as soft as a prime rib?


Apologies to you Rush...I WAY missed this post earlier. Not to get too complicated about brining though, especially since its not a familiar topic for you, well, were I you, I would begin trying the process on cut-up bits of chicken to be fried. (thats how I learned anyhow)..My family did the usual of taking the chicken pieces stratght out of the packagiing, &, went straight into the breading phase. Nothing wrong with that, ...BUT.....my eldestst greatgrandma was still around. Her fried chicken just couldn't be matched. PERIOD! I spent quite some time w/her, &, she introduced me to brining, &, what it was all about! Never have I looked back since!
Brining is a process in which you introduce your raw meats into a lovingly bath/soak that consists of at least 85% salt, &, as you progress, other things can be added(the longer you brine, the better -at least 24hrs in advanced helps gobs).. It helps to remove the meats blood, while imparting flavour at the same time.
When its time to cook, simply strain of the yucky red water, give the meat a slight rinse, &, *poof* you are ready to go. The more that you get comfortable doing this, I PROMISE, the "better" your food will taste!!
For me know, brining now is such a huge step, that, I never, ever just cook most of anything unless it has has a proper "brine".


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## taxlady (Mar 3, 2011)

Please explain 85% salt brine. Wouldn't the salt be just wet? I'm assuming that it doesn't mean 85 grams of salt in 100 grams of solution...


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## rush (Mar 3, 2011)

Midnight_Merlot said:


> Apologies to you Rush...I WAY missed this post earlier. Not to get too complicated about brining though, especially since its not a familiar topic for you, well, were I you, I would begin trying the process on cut-up bits of chicken to be fried. (thats how I learned anyhow)..My family did the usual of taking the chicken pieces stratght out of the packagiing, &, went straight into the breading phase. Nothing wrong with that, ...BUT.....my eldestst greatgrandma was still around. Her fried chicken just couldn't be matched. PERIOD! I spent quite some time w/her, &, she introduced me to brining, &, what it was all about! Never have I looked back since!
> Brining is a process in which you introduce your raw meats into a lovingly bath/soak that consists of at least 85% salt, &, as you progress, other things can be added(the longer you brine, the better -at least 24hrs in advanced helps gobs).. It helps to remove the meats blood, while imparting flavour at the same time.
> When its time to cook, simply strain of the yucky red water, give the meat a slight rinse, &, *poof* you are ready to go. The more that you get comfortable doing this, I PROMISE, the "better" your food will taste!!
> For me know, brining now is such a huge step, that, I never, ever just cook most of anything unless it has has a proper "brine".


 
I see. Thanks for the informative post. I've always been confused about "brining." 

I always thought that the purpose of brining, was to break down the meat and sorta tenderize it with acid and enzymes, and so forth.

But I watched an episode of Alton, and he said that brining just helps lock in the juices during the cooking process... it sorta fuses the skin of the meat and closes up the pores, so juices can't escape... 

It seems to run contrary to the common belief that brining breaks down the meat. Alton says that brining fortifies it... maybe I misinterpreted...


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## rush (Mar 3, 2011)

pacanis said:


> I buy cheap steaks to always have some in the freezer. Not as cheap as you, Rush, but pretty darn cheap for my area. It's so cheap there isn't even a grade stamped on it. A couple years ago I think I payed 2.99/lb for strip and last year 3.99/lb for ribeye. I buy the whole loin and cut them myself (although the grocery store offers free cutting). The trick is to buy one with the most marbling. If none of them look good, I wait until they set some new ones out. I would rather buy a cheap ribeye than an expensive sirloin, but that's my taste. My preference is for rare and that's how I cook them. They are always tender and juicy. Sometimes I will treat myself to a better grade from behind the counter. There is an appreciable difference, but since I like to eat steak a lot the cheaper grade suits me fine, as long as there is some decent marbling. Without that marbling you might as well grind it up into lean hamburger.


 
Totally agree with ya. Cheap ribeye > Expensive top sirloin

I mean, how bad can ribeye be, right? 

If marbling is what dictates the grade of a meat, even select grade Ribeyes are very dense with fat. 

Then again, my experience with steak is nowhere near the level of a lot of the connoisseurs here, so what do I know... 

For now, I'll take your word for it.


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## rush (Mar 3, 2011)

powerplantop said:


> Ranchers Reserve is a brand not a grade.
> 
> For more info on grades go to the source.
> Inspection & Grading of Meat and Poultry: What Are the Differences?
> ...


 
Good sources. Thanks!

And I know Rancher's Reserve is a brand. Apparently, they claim to sell Prime grade.


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## rush (Mar 3, 2011)

jennyema said:


> Your bad experience with steak is because you are buying a very cheap grade of beef. If you want to enjoy steak, maybe save up and buy better quality meat. I honestly have never seen steak for sale fir $2 pound in probably 20 years.
> 
> A TBone and Porterhouse are basically the same thing. A filet mignon on one side and a NY strip on the other side. Tbones usually have a bigger filet. They are good steaks, but for your purposes probably not worth the extra money if its low quality meat.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the tip.

How do I know what's against the grain? Do you just mean to slice the steak at an angle?


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## rush (Mar 3, 2011)

CraigC said:


> Rush, with the quality, or lack thereof, of the cuts you are purchasing, your best bet is to treat them like chuck. Trying to compare the grades you are purchasing with prime grade or better is not worth discussing.
> 
> Craig


 
I don't think anybody is comparing Prime grade with Select grade, but if discussing sub-prime graded steak is not worth discussing, I don't know why nobody on mainstream TV ever mentions "quality" as a necessary component to a steak. 

I always thought that the differences in taste, was dictated by the cut. Just never heard a TV chef (or anybody else in mainstream media, at least) tell the viewers/readers/listeners/what-have-you not to bother with anything below Prime or even Choice. 

They always just say, "Make sure it's at least an inch thick."

But now that I'm on these forums, I'm kinda surprised at how everybody considers the defining characteristic of meat to be quality, more than anything. And this topic is being treated like basic, common sense knowledge. 

I feel like I've been living under a rock. Food Network didn't prepare for this.


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## rush (Mar 3, 2011)

Bolas De Fraile said:


> Rush what I tried to convey is if you cannot afford or get quality steak of any cut dont bother with cheap junk, the cheaper cut like skirt or shin will taste better after in shins case long slow cooking than a poor piece of steak.


 
Gah, I'm not really a slow cooker. Thanks, though.


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## rush (Mar 3, 2011)

Bigjim68 said:


> Grades are preceded by USDA and choice and prime are IMO the only steak grades. ..


 
Not sure if you were being literal, or speaking more from a personal standpoint, but USDA also features "Select" grade. That's the stuff I'm getting... and Rancher's Reserve.


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## rush (Mar 3, 2011)

Bigjim68 said:


> Aging is important. Most supermarket steak has little, if any age. There are two reasons, cost, and the fact that aged meat loses the bright red color that some buyers favor. The choices with the consumer concerning aging are to pay the price for dry aged restuarant quality staek, somewhere in the $12 +/lb range, or purchase sub primal cuts in Cryovac and age it wet yourself. Prime grade ribeyes here are about $8/pound. Around 45 - 60 days works for me, from packing date. The date of packing is stamped on the box, and the butcher should be able to get it for you. Just store the unbroken package in the referigerator..


 
Why is it people always tell you to store the meat in the freezer, within 3 days? Isn't it susceptible to bacterial infections, if you don't eat it fresh?


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## rush (Mar 3, 2011)

4meandthem said:


> They leave the T-shaped bone and the smell of the filet on it!


 
That's terrible. I guess nobody complains in your neighborhood?


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## rush (Mar 3, 2011)

Thanks guys, for all your feedback! 

Everytime I come on these boards, I feel even more overwhelmed by how little I know about food. 

It's an educational experience for me, and I really appreciate it. I'm so glad I can always come to you guys for expert advice.

Anyway, I got the USDA Select T-bone to give it a try. 

I also saw porterhouse steaks for just 20 cents more (4.19/lb), so I picked up a couple of those, 'cause I couldn't help it. 

The thickness was about an inch, I'd say. I wish they were thicker. 

Haven't tried the porterhouse yet, but I was pleasantly surprised by the t-bone, actually. 

The NY strip side, tasted a little better than my previous experience, so I'm assuming the quality was slightly higher. Plus, a lot of the meat was next to the t-bone, so it was very tender. 

The filet side didn't disappoint. 

I think I'll definitely get more T-bones, porterhouses, and ribeyes in the future, and I'll reserve $2 top sirloin for burgers.


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## Uncle Bob (Mar 3, 2011)

rush said:
			
		

> And I know Rancher's Reserve is a brand. Apparently, they claim to sell Prime grade.



The brand, found in Safeway stores (maybe others) used to be "No Roll" beef....Meaning it's not USDA graded. Unlike the mandatory USDA safety inspection paid for by the government,  grading of beef is optional and is paid for by the processor. The greatest majority of No Roll is Select Beef...

Suggest you shop for USDA graded Choice Beef...Learn to choose the best steak(s) in the grocer's display. 

The 'secret' to Top Sirloin is thickness....11/2 in. minimum...2 in. is better cooking only to medium rare. HTH


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## jennyema (Mar 3, 2011)

rush said:


> If marbling is what dictates the grade of a meat, even select grade Ribeyes are very dense with fat.




Marbling in no way dictates the grade of meat.

The point was that if you are buying a lower grade of meat where a subpar eating experience is to be expected one thing you can do is to buy a fatty steak, as a well-marbled steak wont dry out and toughen as much thanks to the fat.

Another suggestion someone made is to only cook the meat to rare (bright red) because barely cooking the interior keeps it soft.

Yet another suggestion for a relatively poor grade of steak (which is also good for cheaper cuts of higher grade meat) is to cut it across the grain.  This means cutting it against and not with the visible muscle fibers.


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## rush (Mar 3, 2011)

jennyema said:


> Marbling in no way dictates the grade of meat.
> 
> The point was that if you are buying a lower grade of meat where a subpar eating experience is to be expected one thing you can do is to buy a fatty steak, as a well-marbled steak wont dry out and toughen as much thanks to the fat.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the tips!

As for marbling dictating the grade...



> Grades are based on the amount of marbling in the meat and the age of the animal. Marbling is the flecks and streaks of white fat you find distributed throughout the meat. In general, the higher the degree of marbling, the more tender, juicy, and flavorable the meat will be. Consequently, higher grade meats come at a higher cost. Age also plays in an important part. Beef is best in flavor and texture when cattle is between 18 and 24 months old, so the grading favors younger animals. There are eight distinct grades of beef recognized by the USDA. In order of descending quality they are:
> 
> Prime
> Choice
> ...


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## rush (Mar 3, 2011)

Uncle Bob said:


> The brand, found in Safeway stores (maybe others) used to be "No Roll" beef....Meaning it's not USDA graded. Unlike the mandatory USDA safety inspection paid for by the government, grading of beef is optional and is paid for by the processor. The greatest majority of No Roll is Select Beef...
> 
> Suggest you shop for USDA graded Choice Beef...Learn to choose the best steak(s) in the grocer's display.
> 
> The 'secret' to Top Sirloin is thickness....11/2 in. minimum...2 in. is better cooking only to medium rare. HTH


 
Thanks, will keep in mind.


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## Bigjim68 (Mar 3, 2011)

rush said:


> Not sure if you were being literal, or speaking more from a personal standpoint, but USDA also features "Select" grade. That's the stuff I'm getting... and Rancher's Reserve.


I  wasn't being literal.  Prime and Choice are the only two grades I would consider for steak.  I generally buy Prime.  For me it is worth the slightly increased price.


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## Bigjim68 (Mar 3, 2011)

rush said:


> Why is it people always tell you to store the meat in the freezer, within 3 days? Isn't it susceptible to bacterial infections, if you don't eat it fresh?


Cryovac is the commercial version of the home food saver.  The  subprimal cut (that is the whole ribeye, filet, or strip, etc) is placed in a bag,the air is drawn out, and the package is heat shrunk.  This process enables the meat to age for a long time without going bad as long as the vacuium seal is not broken.  Pre cut steaks have too much surface area to age well, so once they are cut, you are done, and so storage in the freezer is recommended.  I buy subprimals in Cryovac and age them in the refrigerator for a few weeks.


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## pacanis (Mar 3, 2011)

Jennyema pretty much summed it up, with the exception of her phrase "...subpar eating experience is to be expected". I don't go into any meal that I cook expecting a subpar eating experience. Maybe I have learned to make due or just enjoy eating too much, lol.
The whole trick is in; 1) preparation and 2) knowing what you are getting going in. I don't expect a $5 steak to have the taste and texture of a $13 steak, but that doesn't mean I'm going to enjoy it any less. I plan on having one of those $5 steaks that are in my freezer tonight and I'm going to enjoy the heck out of it


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