# Boil milk to increase shelf life?



## mech3d

This is a new one to me, someone I know told me that if you boil milk it will increase its shelf life.

I am not to sure about this because once you open the package, the milk is exposed to air which shortens the shelf life.

I could Google this, but I though it may be interesting as a general topic for others to be aware of.

Thoughts...comment?

Thanks,
Joe


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## Aunt Bea

I have never done it.  

I have read that it will extend the shelf life another week or so.

Years ago people would can milk to use when the family cow went dry.

canning milk

I think in my situation I would look for a recipe that would use up an extra quart or two of milk.  You could also freeze it in meal size containers if you don't have time to use it before it spoils.


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## GotGarlic

mech3d said:


> This is a new one to me, someone I know told me that if you boil milk it will increase its shelf life.
> 
> I am not to sure about this because once you open the package, the milk is exposed to air which shortens the shelf life.
> 
> I could Google this, but I though it may be interesting as a general topic for others to be aware of.
> 
> Thoughts...comment?
> 
> Thanks,
> Joe



It's actually microbes in the air, not air itself, that cause spoilage. Most milk is pasteurized, which means it has already been heated to kill the pathogens in it. If you were to boil it, you would also need to sterilize the pan you're boiling it in, and the container you store it in, each time you used some. This is not easy to do at home


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## CharlieD

mech3d said:


> This is a new one to me, someone I know told me that if you boil milk it will increase its shelf life.
> 
> Joe



100% true.

Question is why would you do that? Do you live in some rural area where milk is not available? Do you drink only special kind of milk that you can only get once in awhile? Do you drink only kosher milk that has to come on a slow boat from NY and sometimes it just doesn't happen? 

Another thing to consider, milk changes it's taste when boiled. It tastes, ahhh... well, it tastes boiled.


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## mech3d

Good points. We have a family member who works in the dairy industry who gives us lots of free milk, more than we can drink before the expiration date.


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef

My suggestion: Either consume more milk in the time alotted by the USE BY (that is not an expiraiton) DATE plus 5 to 7 days, or buy your milk in smaller containers


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## Kayelle

mech3d said:


> Good points. We have a family member who works in the dairy industry who gives us lots of free milk, more than we can drink before the expiration date.



I would share it myself since you get it for free. Do your friends have children also? I bet they'd love to be gifted with free milk. By the way, your baby is beautiful!

In the past I've frozen unopened milk containers and it thaws just fine.


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## CrazyCatLady

I've frozen milk just as it is and it's okay.

I would worry about boiling milk, but I'm no expert at all.

Honestly, I have no idea on this.


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## taxlady

mech3d said:


> Good points. We have a family member who works in the dairy industry who gives us lots of free milk, more than we can drink before the expiration date.


Is it raw milk?

How about making yogourt, quark, cottage cheese, mozzarella & ricotta, or paneer?


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## GotGarlic

Good idea, TL. He said "dairy industry," so it's not likely to be raw. It doesn't have to be to make cheese, though.


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## taxlady

mech3d said:


> Good points. We have a family member who works in the dairy industry who gives us lots of free milk, more than we can drink before the expiration date.


Yeah, that's what I figured, but I also thought there was a teensy chance that it is raw.


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## Caslon

Why does milk in wax cartons or jugs have an earlier expiration date   than that of a small 16 oz. plastic milk container that has an expiration date  at least a month ahead?


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## Steve Kroll

Caslon said:


> Why does milk in wax cartons or jugs have an earlier expiration date   than that of a small 16 oz. plastic milk container that has an expiration date  at least a month ahead?



Check the label on that plastic container. My guess is that it's ULTRA pasteurized, meaning it's heated to a much higher temperature than that used for regular pasteurization. It has a longer shelf life, but I don't much care for the flavor myself.


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## medtran49

I'd follow the suggestion of making cheese myself, maybe even try some cheeses that require aging if you have someplace cool (but not fridge) to store them.  Plus you can use the leftover whey liquid to fertilize your garden if you have one.  If you get cream, mascarpone is a good one to make.


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## Addie

Steve Kroll said:


> Check the label on that plastic container. My guess is that it's ULTRA pasteurized, meaning it's heated to a much higher temperature than that used for regular pasteurization. It has a longer shelf life, but I don't much care for the flavor myself.



Very interesting. My first thought to the question was 'because air can work it way through the cardboard container. And it can't when it is a plastic container.' But the ultra pasteurization makes more sense. 

I have had raw milk and cream for my coffee. Pasteurizing really changes the taste of both. The Ultra kills even more of the fresh taste. You used to be able to buy raw milk products when I lived in Tacoma, Washington. But in the back of my mind I seem to recall that the Federal Govt. or USDA had a law passed that you can no longer buy raw milk. Too bad. Raw milk has such a rich flavor.


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## GotGarlic

Addie said:


> I have had raw milk and cream for my coffee. Pasteurizing really changes the taste of both. The Ultra kills even more of the fresh taste. You used to be able to buy raw milk products when I lived in Tacoma, Washington. But in the back of my mind I seem to recall that the Federal Govt. or USDA had a law passed that you can no longer buy raw milk. Too bad. Raw milk has such a rich flavor.



So, this happened: After Legalizing Raw Milk, Legislators Fall Ill From Drinking Raw Milk

Darn that USDA, trying to keep people healthy. Who do they think they are??


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## Kayelle

GotGarlic said:


> So, this happened: After Legalizing Raw Milk, Legislators Fall Ill From Drinking Raw Milk
> 
> Darn that USDA, trying to keep people healthy. Who do they think they are??



Amen to that GG. More than 20 years ago I was hospitalized and I nearly died after drinking raw milk. The flavor was fantastic, the results were not!  This raw, unpasteurized milk can  carry dangerous bacteria such as _Salmonella, E. coli_, and _Listeria_.


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef

mech3d said:


> Good points. We have a family member who works in the dairy industry who gives us lots of free milk, more than we can drink before the expiration date.


 Like I said that is a SELL BY date, not an expiration date. Depending on the temperature of your refrigerator, it can go as much as 10 days from that date, and you can still use the sour milk for cooking and baking. Waste not, want not!


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef

CrazyCatLady said:


> I've frozen milk just as it is and it's okay.
> 
> I would worry about boiling milk, but I'm no expert at all.
> 
> Honestly, I have no idea on this.



I tried freezing milk. It tends to separate when it thaws.


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## Kayelle

Sir_Loin_of_Beef said:


> I tried freezing milk. It tends to separate when it thaws.



That's easy, just shake it up.
 I won't even taste milk after the sell by date ewww. Learned that the hard way.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

It's really too bad that people are afraid of irradiated food.  They seem to think that the process makes the product radioactive, when in fact, materials become radioactive when radioactive dust is present on the material.  Irradiated products are exposed to gamma radiation, that is photons that travel with a very short wavelength and a lot of power.  Those same photons are transmitted by the sun as infra-red, visible light colors, ultraviolet, x-rays, and gamma rays.  There are no residual radioactive particles left on the food.

With gamma radiation, the energy released is strong enough to destroy any and all pathogens in the product.  Plus, they travel through the container holding the food.  So, you could package the food in a hermetically sealed container, and pass it through a gamma-ray emitter, and have raw meat, or raw milk, or raw veggies that are shelf stable, that is if they don't contain natural enzymes in the food that will break the food down.

If gamma radiation was used widespread, it would eliminate the need for as much refrigeration, and pressure canning, which often turns food to mush.

But we have shown time and again, that if we don't have the personal training and expertise in any area, we fear the technology and assign baseless assumptions on that technology.

We think we are so very clever, and yet we destroy our own planet, the one that we depend on for life.  Green paper, and plastic cards are more important than the survival of our species.  

Oh, wait, I'm now off-topic.  This was about the quality of milk, and making it shelf stable, while still tasting like raw milk.  I'm going away now.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## Kayelle

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> Oh, wait, I'm now off-topic.  This was about the quality of milk, and making it shelf stable, while still tasting like raw milk.  I'm going away now.
> 
> Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North



 I was thinking you posted on the wrong thread!


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef

Kayelle said:


> I won't even taste milk after the sell by date ewww.



That is very wasteful. 1 out of every 6 children in the US go to bed hungry while you are pouring perfectly good milk down the kitchen sink?


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## Kayelle

Hmm, I never said I pour good milk down the sink, just that *I* won't drink it after the sell by date. I'm not the only person drinking milk here.


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## Addie

When I lived in Tacoma, there was a store run by a local dairy right near my home. The milk was pulled milk with the present date on it. The owner told me that by law they couldn't sell it to the big stores, but it was still perfectly safe to use for at least five days after the "pull by" date. After that you should check it for the next three day. I always bought this milk and never once had a problem. Saved a ton of money doing so. I also bought a lot of their other products that they failed to sell to the big supermarkets. Never a problem. 

They had a large sign explaining their policy regarding "pulled by" dates. I wish there was such a store near me today. I would be their biggest customer. 

Many years ago housewives demanded to know when the foods they bought were produced. So the food industry came up with a date on cans stating the date of production. A lot of people took that date to mean it was out of date just while sitting on the shelf in the store. So they changed the date to a couple of years down the road. What that date means is it loses some of the quality. Not a "toss it" date. 

We are getting more savvy when purchasing our food. Today, my favorite thing to purchase is a "Manager's Special" in the meat department. Great prices for the same meat that would be aged for weeks in a fancy pants restaurant.


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## CharlieD

Sir_Loin_of_Beef said:


> I tried freezing milk. It tends to separate when it thaws.




It does. Just have to shake it really hard. 


Sent from my iPhone using Discuss Cooking


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## taxlady

GotGarlic said:


> So, this happened: After Legalizing Raw Milk, Legislators Fall Ill From Drinking Raw Milk
> 
> Darn that USDA, trying to keep people healthy. Who do they think they are??



But, it probably wasn't the milk. Some people who didn't drink it also got sick and not everyone who drank it got sick.

West Virginia has some of the strictest rules about raw milk. I find them very reasonable. It is now legal, if you own a share in a cow, to receive raw milk from that cow. It's not like they will be selling raw milk at the supermarket.


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## LizStreithorst

Addie said:


> When I lived in Tacoma, there was a store run by a local dairy right near my home. The milk was pulled milk with the present date on it. The owner told me that by law they couldn't sell it to the big stores, but it was still perfectly safe to use for at least five days after the "pull by" date. After that you should check it for the next three day. I always bought this milk and never once had a problem. Saved a ton of money doing so. I also bought a lot of their other products that they failed to sell to the big supermarkets. Never a problem.
> 
> They had a large sign explaining their policy regarding "pulled by" dates. I wish there was such a store near me today. I would be their biggest customer.
> 
> Many years ago housewives demanded to know when the foods they bought were produced. So the food industry came up with a date on cans stating the date of production. A lot of people took that date to mean it was out of date just while sitting on the shelf in the store. So they changed the date to a couple of years down the road. What that date means is it loses some of the quality. Not a "toss it" date.
> 
> We are getting more savvy when purchasing our food. Today, my favorite thing to purchase is a "Manager's Special" in the meat department. Great prices for the same meat that would be aged for weeks in a fancy pants restaurant.



I always look for "Manager's special" meat, too  It's great!  People always think that beef should be pink.  The best beef is brownish.


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## GotGarlic

taxlady said:


> But, it probably wasn't the milk. Some people who didn't drink it also got sick and not everyone who drank it got sick.
> 
> West Virginia has some of the strictest rules about raw milk. I find them very reasonable. It is now legal, if you own a share in a cow, to receive raw milk from that cow. It's not like they will be selling raw milk at the supermarket.



Come on - the fact that not everyone got sick from it does not mean raw milk is safe to consume. There are a lot of variables involved. The fact is that a lot of them *did* get sick soon after consuming it. Coincidence? Not likely.


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## LizStreithorst

I sold raw milk for close to 20 years years.  I was very careful that everything was very clean.  I milked by machine and went through the process of cleaning the stainless steel container and the hoses daily with the chemicals recommended.  I broke the hoses apart once a week and scurbbed them all with a brush that could be pulled through.  I cleaned all the fittings with a brush.  My milking herd was healthy.  Nobody ever got sick.

Still, if you want to be safe I suggest that you buy pasteurized.  If you are willing to take a small risk know your supplier and his methods of sanitation.  Take a tour of the place.  If it doesn't seem good to you don't buy.


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## GotGarlic

LizStreithorst said:


> I sold raw milk for close to 20 years ... Nobody ever got sick.



There is no way you can know that. Most people don't recognize mild food poisoning for what it is. They'll say they got the 24-hour flu. There's no such thing.


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## LizStreithorst

GotGarlic said:


> There is no way you can know that. Most people don't recognize mild food poisoning for what it is. They'll say they got the 24-hour flu. There's no such thing.



Fine then.  It is impossible for me to prove that nobody got sick.  To my knowledge nobody got sick.  I sold my milk to many people who had babies who couldn't tolerate formula or cow's milk.  Never had a complaint, only recommendations.


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## taxlady

GotGarlic said:


> Come on - the fact that not everyone got sick from it does not mean raw milk is safe to consume. There are a lot of variables involved. The fact is that a lot of them *did* get sick soon after consuming it. Coincidence? Not likely.


Come on - don't cherry pick the part of my statement that is irrelevant. The fact that a number of people got sick and didn't drink the milk was the important bit. It's an improbable coincidence, but less so when people who didn't drink the milk got sick.

Charleston Gazette-Mail | Results of raw milk inquiry at WV Capitol inconclusive, DHHR says


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## GotGarlic

taxlady said:


> Come on - don't cherry pick the part of my statement that is irrelevant. The fact that a number of people got sick and didn't drink the milk was the important bit. It's an improbable coincidence, but less so when people who didn't drink the milk got sick.
> 
> Charleston Gazette-Mail | Results of raw milk inquiry at WV Capitol inconclusive, DHHR says



Too bad the legislator who gave out the raw milk flushed the remainder down the toilet so it couldn't be tested. That seems like a strange thing to do if he was so confident it was safe to drink.


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## RPCookin

My first 17 summers were spent drinking mostly raw milk.  We walked over to Jensen's farm twice a week, early in the morning, with our own jugs and Chester filled them straight out of the milking machine.  This was in Wisconsin in the 1950's.  Never got the tiniest bit ill.


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## GotGarlic

Well, I'm convinced. All it takes is a few anecdotes, right? Scientists are so clueless,


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## Aunt Bea

RPCookin said:


> My first 17 summers were spent drinking mostly raw milk.  We walked over to Jensen's farm twice a week, early in the morning, with our own jugs and Chester filled them straight out of the milking machine.  This was in Wisconsin in the 1950's.  Never got the tiniest bit ill.



Same here, my sister and I used to walk to the farm next to my grandmother's and get a couple jugs similar to this one.  

We never had a problem but we never ran into any scientists from the USDA along the way.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

The problem, as i understand it, isn't from the milk itself, but from contaminants that may be on the teet, or on the milking equipment, pails and such.  The milk comes out cleaned by the immune system of the cow, just a mother's milk is pristine for the nursing baby in humans.  Listeria and its cousins are introduced to milk, and other foods through processing equipment.  Pasteurization destroys the nasy critters before they get into your gut.

Milk could be bombarded with gamma, or x-rays to destroy the microbes as well, but people tend to be afraid of anything that's been irradiated, not understanding the process, or the science behind it.  I do know that boiling milk changes the flavor, and IMO, not in a good way if I want to simply drink the milk.

Personally, I would like to find out what freeze-dried milk tastes like.  It would be shelf stable, and should taste like ordinary milk when water is again added.  At least, that's my first expectation.

Seeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## GotGarlic

No. The skin in and around the teats and ducts can be contaminated. 

http://m.cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/1/93.full

Quote: "Commensal microflora. Typically, unless there is an intramammary infection or an animal has a systemic disease, milk in the mammary gland at the site of its production does not contain bacteria. However, as milk is excreted, it can become contaminated with bacteria that live as commensal microflora on the teat skin or on the epithelial lining of the teat canal, the duct that conveys the milk from the mammary gland to the teat orifice. In cattle, bacteria of the genera Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, Bacillus, Micrococcus, and Corynebacterium and, occasionally, coliforms colonize this location [5]. Thus, even in a healthy animal, by the time the milk leaves the animal, it may contain numerous bacterial contaminants."


http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html

Quote: "I know people who have been drinking raw milk for years, and they never got sick. Why is that?

The presence of germs in raw milk is unpredictable. The number of disease-causing germs in the raw milk may be too low to make a person sick for a long time, and later high enough to make the same person seriously ill. For some people, drinking contaminated raw milk just once could make them really sick. Even if you trust the farmer and your store, raw milk is never a guaranteed safe product. Drinking raw milk means taking a real risk of getting very sick."


http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2014/02/a-mom-and-a-dairymans-plea-dont-feed-children-raw-milk/


Pasteurized milk is not boiled. It's heated briefly to 161F.


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## LizStreithorst

What I and other good producers used to do was wash the teat's with a mild cholrox solution, then dry them with single use paper towels, and milk the first few squirts of milk into what is called a strip cup.  It's just a little aluminum cup with a fine mesh screen over it.  If the milk had any clots in it it could be an early sign of mastitis.  After milking we would spray the teat opening with another antibacterial agent.  We's also keep udderc clipped free of hair.  The big cow dairys  use a blow torch to burn it off.  No kidding!


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## Addie

When I lived in Tacoma, you could buy raw milk then. (the 70's) I often would buy it. And both Poo and myself loved it. I never got sick nor did Poo. And when I was working at the WWF, I would go out to the dairy barn early in the morning and get a cup of cream for my coffee. Also some raw milk. Straight from the cows. It would still be steaming from the body heat of the animals. 

Raw milk and cream have what I could only describe as being "complete". It was so rich. In its own right the milk was "skim" milk. But you would never know it. It still had the flavor of milk like milk should taste. 

When you whipped up raw cream, you really had to watch it closely, or you would end up with butter real quick. 

Neither Poo or myself ever got sick.


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## GotGarlic

Do you all understand why the scientific method exists? Because I'm getting the impression you think a bunch of anecdotes add up to proof. They don't.


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## RPCookin

GotGarlic said:


> Do you all understand why the scientific method exists? Because I'm getting the impression you think a bunch of anecdotes add up to proof. They don't.



A better question is "Why does it bother you so much?"  We are offering life experiences that in no way conflict with your "scientific method."  I haven't seen anyone say you are wrong, only that we haven't experienced any ill effects from drinking raw milk.  

All that means is that it isn't automatic that you will get sick from drinking unprocessed milk - it also doesn't guarantee that you won't get sick.  But then, there are lots of ways to get sick from foods that have supposedly been properly processed (witness the almost weekly warnings and recalls from grocer's shelves), so there aren't any guarantees from that either.


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## GotGarlic

LizStreithorst said:


> What I and other good producers used to do was wash the teat's with a mild cholrox solution, then dry them with single use paper towels, and milk the first few squirts of milk into what is called a strip cup.  It's just a little aluminum cup with a fine mesh screen over it.  If the milk had any clots in it it could be an early sign of mastitis.  After milking we would spray the teat opening with another antibacterial agent.  We's also keep udderc clipped free of hair.  The big cow dairys  use a blow torch to burn it off.  No kidding!



I didn't know about that. Thanks for the information.


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## LizStreithorst

Everyone knows that pasteurized milk is safer.  Still, what an informed individual chooses to eat should be up to that individual.  Now that I know longer have a dairy I drink pasteurized only.  If I could find a supplier whose methods I approved of I would buy raw.

There used to be a grade A goat dairy a few miles from me.  Money must have exchanged hands for it to be given grade A status.  I know the standards and he didn't come close to meeting them.  On top of that, he just rinsed his hoses in water after milking.  I don't think they'd ever seen a strong alkaline cleaner or acid rinse.  He didn't even own the brush you're suppose to pull through the hoses once a week.  Can you imagine the bacteria in those hoses?  He didn't even chill his milk in ice water.  He just stuck the bucket in the fridge and let it cool slowly.  Think of all the time that milk had to grow bacteria until it got cold.  He pasteurized so the milk was safe, but he did not put out a quality product.

I was not grade A.  I always asked my customers if they wanted pasteurized or raw.  I had a 3 gallon pasteurizer and would happily do it on request.  The vast majority wanted raw.  They believed rightly or wrongly that raw was more healthful.


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## GotGarlic

RPCookin said:


> A better question is "Why does it bother you so much?"  We are offering life experiences that in no way conflict with your "scientific method."  I haven't seen anyone say you are wrong, only that we haven't experienced any ill effects from drinking raw milk.



I don't know that it's a better question, but I'll answer it  It bothers me because the internet and our country are awash in pseudoscientific thinking that seriously hurts people. Since the internet is forever, and I care about this site, it's important to me to counter it when I can. 

DH is a science teacher/administrator; among other subjects, he taught experimental design for several years and he's going to be a judge at the Virginia Junior Academy of Sciences conference next week; I've learned a lot from him during 32 years of marriage. Also, I worked at a medical school for 14 years, where I learned a lot about how basic and clinical research is conducted. All I'm saying is that a series of anecdotes doesn't add up to evidence.



RPCookin said:


> All that means is that it isn't automatic that you will get sick from drinking unprocessed milk - it also doesn't guarantee that you won't get sick.  But then, there are lots of ways to get sick from foods that have supposedly been properly processed (witness the almost weekly warnings and recalls from grocer's shelves), so there aren't any guarantees from that either.



I never said it was automatic. But the consequences of being on the losing side of that gamble can be horrific, so I think it's important to have balance in the conversation. Take a look back at Kayelle's' comment in this thread.


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## GotGarlic

Addie said:


> When I lived in Tacoma, you could buy raw milk then...



I think this is the third time you've mentioned that in this thread. We get it.


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## Kayelle

GotGarlic said:


> I don't know that it's a better question, but I'll answer it  It bothers me because the internet and our country are awash in pseudoscientific thinking that seriously hurts people. Since the internet is forever, and I care about this site, it's important to me to counter it when I can.
> 
> DH is a science teacher/administrator; among other subjects, he taught experimental design for several years and he's going to be a judge at the Virginia Junior Academy of Sciences conference next week; I've learned a lot from him during 32 years of marriage. Also, I worked at a medical school for 14 years, where I learned a lot about how basic and clinical research is conducted. All I'm saying is that a series of anecdotes doesn't add up to evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> *I never said it was automatic. But the consequences of being on the losing side of that gamble can be horrific, so I think it's important to have balance in the conversation. Take a look back at Kayelle's' comment in this thread.*



I for one appreciate your dedication to the facts GG. Far too many threads about food safety here are challenged by those who chant "but *I *never got sick". Well bully for you, you just dodged the Russian Roulette bullet. It's really as simple as that.


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## GotGarlic

Kayelle said:


> I for one appreciate your dedication to the facts GG. Far too many threads about food safety here are challenged by those who chant "but *I *never got sick". Well bully for you, you just dodged the Russian Roulette bullet. It's really as simple as that.



Thank, Kayelle


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

Yes, back in the late 70's/early 80's I purchased and drank raw milk, and fed it to my DW and my children. Im not sure I would do that now as I have learned more about contaminants.

The mortality rate of babies was at one time rather high in this nation. It was discovered in the early 1900's that the listeria infections causing infant distress, and death was caused mostly by the consumption of raw milk. Laws were enacted to force many milk producers to pasteurise their milk. The number of infant, and small child deaths fell remarkably low, at least those caused by food born infections.

Yes, it's true that there was a recent listeria outbreak and there have been e-coli outreaks in veggies. But to my memory, I have not seen a milk related outbreak of food born ilness. I'm not a fan of ultra-pasteurisation, but if science truly makes food born illness less of a danger, and still produce a viable product, who am I to argue? I will stick with pasteurised milk to drink. Now raw cheese cheese on the other hand...

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## taxlady

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> The problem, as i understand it, isn't from the milk itself, but from contaminants that may be on the teet, or on the milking equipment, pails and such.  The milk comes out cleaned by the immune system of the cow, just a mother's milk is pristine for the nursing baby in humans.  Listeria and its cousins are introduced to milk, and other foods through processing equipment.  Pasteurization destroys the nasy critters before they get into your gut.
> 
> Milk could be bombarded with gamma, or x-rays to destroy the microbes as well, but people tend to be afraid of anything that's been irradiated, not understanding the process, or the science behind it.  I do know that boiling milk changes the flavor, and IMO, not in a good way if I want to simply drink the milk.
> 
> Personally, I would like to find out what freeze-dried milk tastes like.  It would be shelf stable, and should taste like ordinary milk when water is again added.  At least, that's my first expectation.
> 
> Seeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


Didn't they used to sell freeze dried skim milk? Some sort of process that involved spraying and freezing? The dry product had a similar texture to freeze dried instant coffee. Whatever the process, it was better than the regular powdered milk, but still not very nice.

I'm cautious and mildly skeptical of irradiated food. People usually assume that I don't understand about the process. No, I don't think that irradiating food with ionizing radiation makes it radioactive. I also don't think that shining light (electromagnetic radiation) on food will make it emit light or that putting a cell phone, which emits radio-frequency radiation (part of electromagnetic radiation), on my food will cause the food to make phone calls. 

I'm concerned about possible nutrient loss. I have read that it can degrade the flavour of fats. I'm concerned that food processors will be less cautious with foods that will be irradiated, because the ionizing radiation will kill all (or almost all) the mico-organisms. Packaged foods have regulations about how many insect parts, rodent hairs, and poop is allowed in packaged foods (the amounts are tiny). I don't want the amount of allowed poop to be increased, just because it isn't a health hazard. I know, that's an emotional, rather than a scientific perspective.


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## taxlady

GotGarlic said:


> I don't know that it's a better question, but I'll answer it  It bothers me because the internet and our country are awash in pseudoscientific thinking that seriously hurts people. Since the internet is forever, and I care about this site, it's important to me to counter it when I can.
> 
> ...


I really appreciate that. Thank you for the reminder. I will try to be more cautious how I write my skeptical and contrarian views.



> I never said it was automatic. But the consequences of being on the losing side of that gamble can be horrific, so I think it's important to have balance in the conversation. Take a look back at Kayelle's' comment in this thread.


 It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it. 

Yes, drinking raw milk is a gamble, but with benefits as well as risks. This is why I like the West Virginia law about raw milk. They still won't be able to sell it. The people getting it will have to sign a waiver stating that they understand the risks. I'm all in favour of food safety regulations. But, I like leaving it open for people to make their own, informed choices.


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## CharlieD

Love raw milk. Grew up on it. Of course back then it was one owner, with one cow, that was practically family pet. There was no problem with it.


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## Mad Cook

mech3d said:


> This is a new one to me, someone I know told me that if you boil milk it will increase its shelf life.
> 
> I am not to sure about this because once you open the package, the milk is exposed to air which shortens the shelf life.
> 
> I could Google this, but I though it may be interesting as a general topic for others to be aware of.
> 
> Thoughts...comment?
> 
> Thanks,
> Joe


Commercially sterilised milk and UHT milk both have a longer shelf life that pasteurised or raw milk ....UNTIL the packages are opened. Thereafter they only have the same life as fresh milk. My friend's mother, a farmer's daughter brought up before the wide availability of household refrigerators, always boiled her doorstep milk as soon as it was delivered to keep it fresh. I don't think it kept any longer than the un-boiled milk would have done as she kept it in a jug with a clean cloth over it in the coolness of the cellar.

Both UHT (Ultra heat treated) and sterilised (ie boiled) milks taste vile especially in tea and coffee so I stick with my ordinary doorstep delivery milk and keep it in the 'fridge.


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## Mad Cook

If you have a surfeit of milk you can use it in porridge, rice pudding (short grain rice and don't boil it in water before adding the milk), milky coffee, bread pudding, egg custard and any dish connected with it. 

Just don't give it to the cat - it's bad for felines.


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## RPCookin

Mad Cook said:


> Commercially sterilised milk and UHT milk both have a longer shelf life that pasteurised or raw milk ....UNTIL the packages are opened. Thereafter they only have the same life as fresh milk. My friend's mother, a farmer's daughter brought up before the wide availability of household refrigerators, always boiled her doorstep milk as soon as it was delivered to keep it fresh. I don't think it kept any longer than the un-boiled milk would have done as she kept it in a jug with a clean cloth over it in the coolness of the cellar.
> 
> Both UHT (Ultra heat treated) and sterilised (ie boiled) milks taste vile especially in tea and coffee so *I stick with my ordinary doorstep delivery milk* and keep it in the 'fridge.



Doorstep delivery?  That's gone the way of the dinosaur here.  There may still be some pockets of the US where it's available, but that would be an exception.  I still remember the days when every home had an insulated box on the front step for the milkman to put the delivery in, but no more.  

There is still one dairy serving the Denver area and the front range, but in 35 years living there, I never knew anyone who used the service.  I used to start work at 5 AM, and I on rare occasions I saw a milk truck on my way to work, but that was it.  There was a time when, if you were out before dawn on a weekday, you almost couldn't help but see one.


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