# Dolmatas/Dolmas/Stuffed Grape Leaves



## CWS4322 (Jun 1, 2012)

I noticed that my wild grape leaves are just about the perfect size to make dolmatas again. I have 2 lb of lamb waiting in the freezer. I know we have new members from that part of the world where people make dolmatas--wonder if anyone would like to share a TNT recipe / family recipe for the same.

I think this will be next weekend's project. This weekend looks like it will be too busy for this project. I can taste them already...don't know if I can wait until next weekend, but I'll try.


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## Margi Cintrano (Jun 1, 2012)

CWS,

Growing Grape Leaves, WOW !  I have two lovely traditional Greek Recipes in English of course, that I could post on Saturday for you. One is a rice, currant and dill stuffing and the other, fresh prawns or shrimp ... 

We have been to Greece several times, and one of these recipes is from Greece´s top chef Christof. 

Is there a specific stuffing that you have in mind ? Is the lamb the main course ? 

Ciao,
Have nice wkend,
Margi.


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## CWS4322 (Jun 1, 2012)

Margi Cintrano said:


> CWS,
> 
> Growing Grape Leaves, WOW !  I have two lovely traditional Greek Recipes in English of course, that I could post on Saturday for you. One is a rice, currant and dill stuffing and the other, fresh prawns or shrimp ...
> 
> ...



Margi--I'd love your recipes. Last year, I made two different batches--one with rice, raisins, etc., and the other without the raisins. I have enough grape leaves (and freezer space) to make LOTS. I think I stuffed over 200 leaves last year. The shrimp one sounds interesting. No rush--I have leaves that are almost ready and others that will be ready in about 10 days. I don't grow grapes--the vines are very invasive here, but we use the grapes for jelly and wild grape-elderberry wine and the leaves for dolmatas, and the vines I sometimes will make wreaths out of at Christmas time, if I'm so inclined and remember to harvest them and soak them on time to do something with them.


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## Margi Cintrano (Jun 1, 2012)

Buonasera CWS, 

Pleased to hear the good news and always a pleasure to collaborate with you too. 

I shall pull out the Greek Notebooks ... and go through the Dolmades recipes I had collected in Athens, Santorini, Naxos and Crete ... Then, you can innovate & create or select those that you enjoy ...

Next to Italian comfort of course, Greek is one of our favorite cuisines. We were so pleased when, they amplified the El Corte Ingles Gourmet Club Supermarket to include Greek products ... 

Have a lovely evening, and I shall work on typing your recipes tomorrow.

It is already 19.30 Hours here, and need to prepare the Zabaglione dessert now for the Vet and the Cassola of fish & shellfish.  

Ciao,
Margi.


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## Andy M. (Jun 1, 2012)

When my mom made dolma, it was always a special treat.  I fondly remember the family's going for a Sunday drive and Dad's stopping by a country road and handing my sister and me paper shopping bags with instructions to go pick grape leaves from a nearby vine.

I don't make this dish though I have my mom's recipe.  I count on my sister to make it and invite me over for dinner.


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## Steve Kroll (Jun 1, 2012)

CWS, I'm curious... what kind of grapes do you grow? I have about three dozen vines myself.


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## lyndalou (Jun 1, 2012)

Sadly, my grape leaves come in a jar. I make Jeff Smith"s (Frugal Gourmet) recipe from one of his very early cookbooks. He said it was from his Lebanese uncle's collection. They are not sweet at all, are made with lamb and spices and given a bath of garlic lemon and water during the last 20 mins or so of cooking. We love them.


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## CWS4322 (Jun 1, 2012)

Steve Kroll said:


> CWS, I'm curious... what kind of grapes do you grow? I have about three dozen vines myself.


Steve--these are wild purple grapes--the same kind you find everywhere in Northern MN. My dad's grow overhanging the lake, which adds a bit of a complication when harvesting the grapes. My understanding is that you can use any kind of grape leaves, as long as they haven't been sprayed with anything (which mine haven't). Considered an invasive plant in this area. We do pull the vines off of our wild plum trees. This is foraging in the yard.

If you'd care to share your mom's recipe, I'd love to have it. These are not part of my ethnic heritage (I wasn't introduced to them until I went to a Lebanese restaurant years ago). I love them and enjoy making them. There is something very satisfying about collecting the leaves, sorting them, blanching them, and stuffing and rolling them. Although, after about four hours, I question why I had to pick so many leaves...

One of the recipes I made last year was from one of Jeff Smith's cookbooks, but I had to substitute beef for lamb--I couldn't find any lamb to save my soul. This year I planned ahead and got lamb from one of my curling pals.


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## Siegal (Jun 1, 2012)

I've made them before!! I am trying to remember off the top of my head but i took par boiled basmati rice, mixed with raw ground lamb, puréed raw onion, toasted pine nuts, allspice??? salt. I guess you can season how you like. Make sure you cut out the leaf vein so it's not tough and rinse off the brine if not using fresh leaves. Roll it up by first folding in the sides and then rolling. Place a few leaves on the bottom of a saucepan (so the Dolma dont stick). Tightly layer in sauce pan. Cover with stock of choice. Weigh it down with a plate with something heavy on it. Cover. Simner till done which I think is about 40 mins. Good luck. Now I'm in the mood to make some


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## CWS4322 (Jun 1, 2012)

Siegal said:


> I've made them before!! I am trying to remember off the top of my head but i took par boiled basmati rice, mixed with raw ground lamb, puréed raw onion, toasted pine nuts, allspice??? salt. I guess you can season how you like. Make sure you cut out the leaf vein so it's not tough and rinse off the brine if not using fresh leaves. Roll it up by first folding in the sides and then rolling. Place a few leaves on the bottom of a saucepan (so the Dolma dont stick). Tightly layer in sauce pan. Cover with stock of choice. Weigh it down with a plate with something heavy on it. Cover. Simner till done which I think is about 40 mins. Good luck. Now I'm in the mood to make some


Thanks--I made about 200 last year. I used a wild rice-white rice blend (since I have so much wild rice on hand). They turned out great, and I did remove the veins. I only use fresh leaves--wouldn't know where to find those already prepped!


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## Siegal (Jun 1, 2012)

CWS4322 said:
			
		

> Thanks--I made about 200 last year. I used a wild rice-white rice blend (since I have so much wild rice on hand). They turned out great, and I did remove the veins. I only use fresh leaves--wouldn't know where to find those already prepped!



I'm so jealous of all the DCers with gardens and fresh produce and rice. Sigh..... Supermarket food stinks....everything is wilty and flavorless....I need to move


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## CWS4322 (Jun 1, 2012)

Siegal said:


> I'm so jealous of all the DCers with gardens and fresh produce and rice. Sigh..... Supermarket food stinks....everything is wilty and flavorless....I need to move


I don't know where you live, but wild grapes grow EVERYWHERE! On one hand, I hate them, on the other, I love having access to all the wild grape vines so I can harvest the leaves, the grapes in the fall, and the vines for crafts.


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## Siegal (Jun 1, 2012)

CWS4322 said:
			
		

> I don't know where you live, but wild grapes grow EVERYWHERE! On one hand, I hate them, on the other, I love having access to all the wild grape vines so I can harvest the leaves, the grapes in the fall, and the vines for crafts.



Lucky. The only thing that grows wild here is coconuts. And usually those are removed before they hit the ground to avoid injury.


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## Margi Cintrano (Jun 2, 2012)

*Chef Lefteris Lazarou: Prawns in Grape Leaves*

  CWS,

Firstly, Chef Lefteris Lazarou, an Athens native, studied under the renowned Ferrán Adriá at El Bulli many years ago before returning to his Athens home to provide a vanguard take on his classic cuisine. 

*** Please note: I have provided you with the Classic Recipe for Dolmades in the Ethnic Section ...

Here is his recipe for Prawns in Grape Leaves ...

32 0unces Grape Leaves rinsed, drained and stems trimmed 
1 kilo of Tiny Fresh Shrimp or Prawns 
Garlic Cloves ( to your taste, and palate )
1/2 cup Evoo
2 large onions
2 cups long grain rice or wild rice 
5 tblsps lemon juice
3 tblsps chopped dill, parsley, fennel seed, oregano fresh leaves 
5 cups water

1. heat evoo in heavy large saucepan over medium heat
2. add onions and sauté until translucent about 7 mins. and prepare shrimps apart in boiling salted water for a minute and let cool before placing in the rice mixture  
3. stir in rice, lemon juice, the herbs well combined and 1 cup hot water
4. reduce heat and simmer
5. cover and simmer until rice is partially cooked and no liquid remains
6. stir occasionally and simmer 12 to 15 mins or so
7. cover bottom of a large wide sauce pan with some grape leaves
8. place 1 large grape leaf on work surface and spoon a scant teaspoon of rice mixture in each of the leaves
9. fold the bottom over, then fold sides in and roll up
10. place seam side down in sauce pan
11. repeat filling and rolling until all the rice mixture is used 
12. Pour water or chicken stock over the grape leaves and cover 
13. simmer over medium heat for 40 mins approx 
14. using slotted spoon, transfer the rolled leaves to a platter
15. serve with Tzaziki yogurt made with cucumbers and Greek Yogurt 
( see my Tzaziki recipe in Ethnic - January of February 2012 ) 

 Enjoy CWS,

Have fab weekend.
Ciao. 
Margaux Cintrano.


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## Steve Kroll (Jun 2, 2012)

Kind of interesting side story. One of my neighbors, "Ron", grew up in Egypt. You wouldn't know it to talk to him, and it's something he never really brought up until last summer when his mother came to visit for a few months. Ron's mother doesn't speak English at all, but she came to all the neighborhood get togethers. She always seemed very pleasant, and would sit quietly and nod and smile if someone tried to talk to her (though she obviously didn't understand most of it). We came to call her "mama" because that's how Ron always referred to her.

One night, we were all sitting around our next door neighbor's patio fire pit, when I saw mama looking over the fence at my grape vines. She became very excited and began chatting with Ron. Afterward, Ron came over to me and said, "mama wants to know if it would be alright for her to pick some of your grape leaves."

I told him that of course it was alright. So she brought a basket over and, being careful not to pick too many from one spot, proceeded to harvest quite a few of the leaves.

Well, the next day she and Ron showed up with a plate full of the most delicious stuffed grape leaves I've ever had. They were so lemony and buttery.

Unfortunately, I never got mama's recipe, but I think it was similar to this one:

Grape Leaves Stuffed with Rice and Ground Beef (Mahshi Wara’ Enab) | mideats.com

I keep meaning to make it. Maybe I'll have to try it this weekend.


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## Margi Cintrano (Jun 2, 2012)

Steve,

Thank you for posting the fascinating anecdote and the lovely recipe too.

Have a lovely wkend. 
Margi.


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## CWS4322 (Jun 3, 2012)

Steve--I hope you do make stuffed grape leaves. Supposedly you are only supposed to pick the top 4 on the vine. Don't know why. I'm picking next Saturday. Too busy this week to do them. By my best guess, I have about 2-3 weeks to get the leaves when they are about the size of my hand.

Margi--thanks for taking the time to dig out those recipes and post them!


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## Margi Cintrano (Jun 3, 2012)

CWS, Buongiorno, 

Thank you for your lovely note. I do hope that you have seen the Classic Dolmades Recipe, I posted apart from your thread in the same Ethnic Section ... The recipe I am referring to, is a Lamb Wild Rice Filling and was given to me by the most famous Chef in Greece.

Wish I could fly over for your Dolmades !  I love them. 

Have a lovely Sunday.
Ciao,
Margi.


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## CWS4322 (Jun 7, 2012)

Okay--I've scouted the grape vines--I definitely can pick over 300 leaves. I plan on doing several variations--one with ground lamb, one with my homemade chorizo sausage, one using the recipe Margi posted with shrimp, and a vegetarian version with mushrooms I found on the Internet. Should be a busy Sunday. I'm using brown rice and wild rice. Oops--forgot to pick up lemons (on special this week--2 lb for $3), so I have to go back into town since the flyer changes tonight.


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## Margi Cintrano (Jun 7, 2012)

CWS,

300 ... Wonderful ... Surely wish, you were just a little bit closer ... Lots of blue pond in between !  

Do please let us know how they turn out and thanks for trying the recipe. I feel honored. Appreciate it ... Let me know how they turn out ...

Ciao, Margi.


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## CWS4322 (Jun 7, 2012)

Margi Cintrano said:


> CWS,
> 
> 300 ... Wonderful ... Surely wish, you were just a little bit closer ... Lots of blue pond in between !
> 
> ...


You would be most welcome to come and enjoy (or help roll them). I could probably pick 1000 leaves. I just scouted the vines that are closest to the house at the farm. There are plenty of grape leaves along the fence at the house in the City. I didn't go check the ones here behind the barns or along the fences bordering the 50 acres of fields. Heck, I could probably pick 10,000 leaves before they get too big. Seems to me I picked leaves until almost the end of June last year. There is definitely not a shortage of grape leaves...just time and freezer space are the problem.


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## taxlady (Jun 7, 2012)

CWS4322 said:


> You would be most welcome to come and enjoy (or help roll them). I could probably pick 1000 leaves. I just scouted the vines that are closest to the house at the farm. There are plenty of grape leaves along the fence at the house in the City. I didn't go check the ones here behind the barns or along the fences bordering the 50 acres of fields. Heck, I could probably pick 10,000 leaves before they get too big. Seems to me I picked leaves until almost the end of June last year. There is definitely not a shortage of grape leaves...just time and freezer space are the problem.


Do you blanch or parblanch them before you freeze them? I'm going to go get some at a friend's house.


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## CWS4322 (Jun 7, 2012)

taxlady said:


> Do you blanch or parblanch them before you freeze them? I'm going to go get some at a friend's house.


I blanch the leaves and stuff them, steam them for about 40 minutes, cool, and then freeze the stuffed ones. If you aren't going to stuff them right away, you will want to check the method for freezing just the leaves. You do have to blanch them first. I think I posted how I did my leaves last year in the picnic challenge thread.


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## XeniA (Jun 9, 2012)

My two-cents' worth from Greece since your original request was for  tried-and-true and/or old family recipes -- mine are both, one from my  mother-in-law who was as 'Greek village' as they come, and other from a  Greek girlfriend's mother, equally authentic, but from a different  region of Greece.

I made the first of the season several weeks ago -- they're a huge  family favorite, but still a treat as they take some time to make.

I make two versions, one with meat (usually beef, sometimes lamb), one  without. Usually I make the meat ones as part of a big oven tray full of  stuffed ("yemista") tomatoes, peppers, and zucchini. The meatless ones I  usually make solo, served with a tart and creamy egg-lemon  ("avgolemono") sauce.

The ingredients for the with-meat ones are:
ground beef or lamb
rice (usually short-grain, but it's a matter only of preference)
onions
the 'innards' of the other veggies I'm stuffing
spearmint leaves
olive oil
salt & pepper

The ingredients for the meat-less ones are:
rice
onions (scallions are particularly nice)
celery
parsley
dill, if you'd like
olive oil
salt & pepper

(Maybe I should forewarn you that unless we're talking baking, I'm not a  measuring type of cook, so I'd struggle to give you exact amounts here,  and, besides, there are so many variables, primary one being how many  leaves and/or other things you're planning to stuff. Exact quantities  aren't crucial to the recipe's success, and how much of anything you put  it depends so much on personal taste. I tend to have a heavy hand with a  variety of ingredients because that's how I like them. I'd say use the  amount that appeals to you the first time you make them, and then adjust  up or down the next time ...)

Basic filling procedure (with-meat):

- finely chop onion and saute in olive oil at least until tender and  translucent. If you'd like, cook even more until a bit caramelized and  browned which adds a richness to the flavor.

- either add in the ground meat and cook until separated and browned, or  remove the onions first, do the meat, and re-combine if you'd rather.

- season with salt, tons of coarsely-ground fresh pepper, and ground/pounded spearmint leaves (mine are usually dried).

- add in the rice (uncooked)

- if you're also stuffing other vegetables, you need by this time to  have emptied them out into a bowl. Obviously with pepper, tomatoes, and  zucchini, that pretty much means a bowl full of tomato and zucchini  guts. I'd suggest pureeing those (blender, blender stick, potato masher,  etc.) to get a fairly evenly mushed up liquid-y end result.

- add all or most of this mixture into the onions/meat/rice mixture and  simmer until the rice is about half-cooked (still hard/chalky core). You  can save out part of this tomato/zucchini mixture to pour over the  finished stuffed veggies in the pan before baking, but personally I  prefer not to because it can burn (my mother-in-law did do this, but she  always managed to have enough left-over (i.e. damaged or otherwise  unsuited to rolling) grape leaves that she could put a layer of those  over the entire pan preventing what was underneath from burning).

- Let the filling cool a bit which just makes handling a bit easier ...

To prep the leaves other people have given good instructions. My only  notes would be that if your leaves are young and tender, there's no need  to cut out the central vein and in fact if you do, personally I have no  idea how you'd ever wrap them! I only get rid of any hanging stems on  the leaves. Otherwise, one by one (it's pleasantly mesmerizing) I blanch  them in boiling water, fishing them out with a skimmer and laying them  all in the same direction into a wire strainer over a bowl. It makes the  rolling go much quicker if yours leaves start out 'organized' this way.

The procedure for the meat-less ones is similar:

- finely chop and sautee the onions as above (olive oil, only)

- add in the rice (proportionally more in this version since here it's the primary ingredient)

- add either water or stock, the latter obviously resulting in tastier  dolmades. Season with salt and plenty of pepper, in our house, always  coarsely ground and always plenty.

- finely chop the celery (as finely as you can manage -- these are  intended to be delicate) and chop whatever other greenery you're using

- depending on how well-cooked you'd like the celery (I like mine more  alive than dead), add it into the rice mixture either right when you  start simmering it, or much closer to when you're going to pull it off  the stove. Bear in mind that you'll be cooking them again once wrapped.

- as in the procedure for the with-meat types, stop cooking the filling  when the rice is about half-way done. You should be topping up the  liquid as needed, of course.

Wrapping is identical. There must be good YouTube videos out  there to help because describing the method really isn't the way to go. My only note about wrapping is that big, galumphing dolmades aren't considered all that nice -- they're intended to be fairly delicate in size. So resist the temptation to over-fill. They're harder to wrap that way anyways.

A note or two about preparing for cooking:  someone posted a  link to an article that was otherwise good, but I disagree with how they  put them in the saucepan because I think with their method you'd risk  the dolmades opening up and losing the filling. The way I was taught was  to make a tight ring around the outer edge in the saucepan, leaving the  middle completely open. If they're packed in tightly enough, they won't  budge (and of course as the rice continues to cook, it swells and they  pack in even tighter). However, the other big advantage to this is that  you can monitor the amount of liquid in the pan very easily -- something  that would otherwise be nearly impossible, or at least nearly  impossible without disturbing the dolmades which you don't want to do.

That's about all I have to offer. If anyone needs instructions for the  stuffed tomatoes, etc. and how to cook those, and/or for the lemon sauce  for the meat-less ones, just say so.


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## CWS4322 (Jul 7, 2013)

It's that time of year again. I'm using ground turkey (can't find lamb and decided on turkey). I'm doing a variation of Jeff Smith's recipe:

Stuffed Grape Leaves With Egg Lemon Sauce Recipe - Food.com - 184691


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## taxlady (Jul 7, 2013)

CWS4322 said:


> It's that time of year again. I'm using ground turkey (can't find lamb and decided on turkey). I'm doing a variation of Jeff Smith's recipe:
> 
> Stuffed Grape Leaves With Egg Lemon Sauce Recipe - Food.com - 184691


Is this the right time to be picking grape leaves? I recently noticed that one of my condo neighbours has grape vine(s).


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## CWS4322 (Jul 7, 2013)

taxlady said:


> Is this the right time to be picking grape leaves? I recently noticed that one of my condo neighbours has grape vine(s).


Ours are a bit late because of the winter that went on and on and on. They are supposed to be about the size of your hand. My hands are bigger than your hands. If they haven't been sprayed, I'd go for it. They are bitter when first blanched, but when you steam them to finish the recipe, they lose their bitterness. Supposedly, you are supposed to pick only the four uppermost leaves off the vine.


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## taxlady (Jul 7, 2013)

CWS4322 said:


> Ours are a bit late because of the winter that went on and on and on. They are supposed to be about the size of your hand. My hands are bigger than your hands. If they haven't been sprayed, I'd go for it. They are bitter when first blanched, but when you steam them to finish the recipe, they lose their bitterness. *Supposedly, you are supposed to pick only the four uppermost leaves off the vine*.


Their vine(s) are growing up the house and most of the leaves are at eaves level. I really don't think they are sprayed. I can ask them when I ask for permission to pick them. Herbicides and pesticides are illegal in my town, unless you have some sort of infestation and get a permit. Hmmm, I wonder if it was illegal when we killed the wasps a few years ago.


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