# Packed in Cancer?



## Smokey_Joe (Sep 14, 2006)

Dioxin Carcinogens causes cancer. Especially breast cancer.
Dioxins are carcinogens and highly toxic to the cells of our bodies.

Studies show that Dioxins release from plastics when heated or cooled.

Styrofaom and plastic containers when heated in the microwave or frozen in the freezer release dioxins.

This applies mostly but not limited to the foods that contain fat. The combination of fat, high heat or extreme cold and plastics releases dioxins into the food and ultimately into the cells of the body immediately.

Although the new e-mail flooding cyberspace doesn't hold the same truth, The "don't freeze your water bottles"... an easy rule is if the plastic easily scratches or marks by your finger nail...... it will release dioxins. Water bottles won't.

So such things as TV dinners, instant snacks and soups, etc. should be removed from the container and heated in something else. 

Remember when some of the fast food restaurants moved away from the foam containers to paper. The dioxin problem is one of the reasons. 

One of the worst things happening right now is the heating of formulas and milks for infants in microwaves..... if it scratches or marks with a fingernail drag....TOSS IT OUT!!!!!!!!!! or heat the formula or milk in a glass container and then put it in that bottle or sippie cup!


Pass this information to anyone you know with infants or small children........PLEASE


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## Bruce B (Sep 14, 2006)

Your source please?????


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## Smokey_Joe (Sep 14, 2006)

I seen this and the carbon dioxide in the meat packing on our local Channel 9 news station this morning and have done several searches on Google etc.. about both subjects during the day today.... All the searches I did came back confirming what they stated on this mornings news.

As for exact websites I read from and articles read.....geesh not sure.... read so many, but I'm sure they are all still available to find.

I just quickly looked and this refference was on the first website to pop up...
I can look for more if you want me to.


Dr. Jerrold Heindel (grants for dioxin research)
Address:

NIEHS 
MD EC-03
P.O. Box 12233
Research Triangle Park (RTP), N.C.  27709   USA

Telephone: (919) 541-0781    (USA)


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## Puff1 (Sep 14, 2006)

Interesting


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## Unity (Sep 14, 2006)

*Check this out.*

--John  8) 
(Bookmark the home page. It's right handy with all the crap floating around on the Internet.)


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## Nick Prochilo (Sep 14, 2006)

Okay then, back to nuking things in plastic!


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## Smokey_Joe (Sep 14, 2006)

But I find the backing and base facts derived for the article that Unity finds at the end of the article..... including but not limited to a Seventh Grade little girls science experiment, along with 2 newspaper columnists opinion articles in their newspapers.

I try to grasp Unity's point with his link he posted.... but the article starts by bashing the fact someone heard the issues on their local news channel stated by NOT a Dr. but someone with ONLY medical background....... then uses journalists opinion articles and a seventh grade science project as their backing to try to prove someone else wrong...... 

Below are their sources


  Sources : 
    Burros, Marian.   "Good Health Habits Can Reduce Risks of Hazards in Food." 
    The New York Times.   9 May 1990   (p. C1). 

    Hahn, Jon.   "A Bad Rap for Microwaving Food?" 
    The Seattle Post-Intelligencer.   8 January 2002   (p. E2). 

    Lehourites, Chris.   "Grade 7 Girl's Radiant Idea Leads to Top Science Prize." 
    The Toronto Star.   21 May 2000.


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## Unity (Sep 14, 2006)

Smokey_Joe said:
			
		

> I try to grasp *Unity's point*


1. Don't assume that an alarming message you got in an email is true.
2. Do some research before you pass it on. 
3. Make up your own mind.

--John  8) 
(Almost anything that says "send this to everyone you know" is fake.)


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## Smokey_Joe (Sep 14, 2006)

1. I didn't assume anything till I did some research on it.

2. I did lots of research Unity before posting it & passing  it on......lots....... and the only "debunking" of what I was reading was articles like your link and articles from the companies that produce the items in question.

3. I think I finally made up my own mind when I read about warming/heating items in plastic for infants... society can slowly kill me & you with what they want, we're adults, and as you say , we can make up our own minds. Infants and children can't, I thought posting it was a "good thing" just incase there is validity to it and it saves even one child from suffering something totally avoidable.

Unity I deeply apologize if you and I disagree on this and I won't post about it anymore to upset you any further, but ALL of what I read seemed quite serious and backed by more then 7th grade science experiments.......sorry to all if I irritated anyone else with this subject.

this wasn't a "send it to everyone e-mail"...it was the morning news on TV
and my apologies again for not bookmarking....

SJ

I know you'll have to have the last word no matter what Unity...so no fear......you can have it.
_____________________________________________________________

(Don't assume your opinion is gospel, unless God himself tells you it is,but spread your opinion so many may form their own)


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## Unity (Sep 14, 2006)

Smokey_Joe said:
			
		

> Unity I deeply apologize if you and I disagree


Think anything you want, Joe. 

--John  8) 
("They told me I was gullible, and I believed them!")


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## Griff (Sep 14, 2006)

My experience is that even when your sources are limited to peer reviewed serious professional journals, you can find sources to support most any proposition, AND the contrary proposition. 

Griff


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## wittdog (Sep 15, 2006)

Griff said:
			
		

> My experience is that even when your sources are limited to peer reviewed serious professional journals, you can find sources to support most any proposition, AND the contrary proposition.
> 
> Griff


My first question when any type of research is discussed is who provided the funding for said research?


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## Nick Prochilo (Sep 15, 2006)

wittdog said:
			
		

> Griff said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



BINGO!


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## Greg Rempe (Sep 15, 2006)

Until it is mentioned on the Howard Stern Show I won't change a thing...I have heated bottles in the microwave for all my kids and they never got cancer!   :!:


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## Cliff H. (Sep 15, 2006)

Greg Rempe said:
			
		

> Until it is mentioned on the Howard Stern Show I won't change a thing...I have heated bottles in the microwave for all my kids and they never got cancer!   :!:



There is no telling WHAT Howard Stern heats in the microwave.


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## Smokey_Joe (Sep 15, 2006)

Greg Rempe said:
			
		

> Until it is mentioned on the Howard Stern Show I won't change a thing...I have heated bottles in the microwave for all my kids and they never got cancer!   :!:



How old are your kids now?   Is that what may be the cause of cancer later in their years???

I guess if scientists had all the answers of who,how,why,where,when etc... for cancer...there would be a vaccine already.

I've done the sippie cup in the micro too....... but won't ever again. Just the chance isn't worth the convenience to me now that I know it's even a possibility.


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## wittdog (Sep 15, 2006)

What grade of plastics are we talking about.....there are different grades of plastics....I would bet that food grade plastics would be ok.


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## Smokey_Joe (Sep 15, 2006)

I don't know exact grades and where the line is,...but what I have read up on so far, and how it was explained on the TV news.... a safe rule of thumb...if you can EASILY scratch or mark it with your fingernail.... it's not safe in heating or freezing situations.

Some saran/freezer wraps even say not for use in microwave....that is why...not that it melts into your food....because it won't

Even the packages on some drinking straws have the same warning about using in HOT foods.... obviously they don't melt into your drink either..it's the possibility of the dioxins they release.

I guess it's just one of them things that we all sweep under the rug every day because we just "don't want to know"...or believe.


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## allie (Sep 15, 2006)

Well, here's a thought if heating plastic was the cause of cancer then why would so many people have died of this disease before the use of plastics became the norm?

I don't mean to sound like a smart&$$ but everything we eat, drink, or touch can cause cancer if you listen to all the studies!  I just choose to enjoy life and what it has to offer......I'm going to die sooner or later anyway!


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## Smokey_Joe (Sep 15, 2006)

allie said:
			
		

> Well, here's a thought if heating plastic was the cause of cancer then why would so many people have died of this disease before the use of plastics became the norm?
> 
> I don't mean to sound like a smart&$$ but everything we eat, drink, or touch can cause cancer if you listen to all the studies!  I just choose to enjoy life and what it has to offer......I'm going to die sooner or later anyway!



 I'm guessing the rise in cancer rates is maybe what spawned most of these studies... 

 Is this what's killing everyone with cancer.... I surely doubt it.  My grandfather died of cancer...... was it plastic heating that killed him?....surely not. It was the used waste oil & bi-products from a local machine shop type factory that one of the neighbors used to spread up and down their dirt road every other day to keep the dust down. It all leached into their dug wells and 32 of the 50 residents on that street have all contracted cancer through the years and died from it. 

 So yes, maybe I do have a biased desire to know about anything that causes or may cause cancer. It's when I seen the baby bottle and sippie cup part of the article, that made me want to pass the information I seen and heard along.

 Just something I thought I'd share...I wasn't asking you to stop using plastics..... that's your decision to make.


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## allie (Sep 15, 2006)

I understand why you shared your information and I appreciate that you care enough about people to try and share new information.  I guess it's just because no matter what food you eat, what beverage you drink, there is always a danger of cancer and other illnesses.  

My father was diagnosed with colono/rectal cancer over 3 years ago.   He underwent 24/7 chemo in a pump for 6 weeks along with radiation treatments.  Then he had surgery.  Since then he has been cancer-free at every check-up.  He is on disability now because the radiation caused burning in his intestines and causes digestive issues.to the point he sometimes has accidents due to the diarrhea.  This is something that has hit me very close to home.  There is no explainable reason why my dad has cancer.  The doctors are amazed that his lung x-rays always come back clear and healthy.  He's been a smoker for the better part of 40 years and tried to quit numerous times unsuccessfully.

I do not think we will see a cure for cancer.  The drug companies and medical institution as a whole make way too much money off of this one disease.  It is my belief that greed will keep the cures hidden from normal folks.  I may be wrong but I see our society as being fueled by money and power.


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## Nick Prochilo (Sep 15, 2006)

allie said:
			
		

> I understand why you shared your information and I appreciate that you care enough about people to try and share new information.  I guess it's just because no matter what food you eat, what beverage you drink, there is always a danger of cancer and other illnesses.
> 
> My father was diagnosed with colono/rectal cancer over 3 years ago.   He underwent 24/7 chemo in a pump for 6 weeks along with radiation treatments.  Then he had surgery.  Since then he has been cancer-free at every check-up.  He is on disability now because the radiation caused burning in his intestines and causes digestive issues.to the point he sometimes has accidents due to the diarrhea.  This is something that has hit me very close to home.  There is no explainable reason why my dad has cancer.  The doctors are amazed that his lung x-rays always come back clear and healthy.  He's been a smoker for the better part of 40 years and tried to quit numerous times unsuccessfully.
> 
> I do not think we will see a cure for cancer.  The drug companies and medical institution as a whole make way too much money off of this one disease.  It is my belief that greed will keep the cures hidden from normal folks.  I may be wrong but I see our society as being fueled by money and power.



My father said the same thing 20 years ago! Money makes the world go round!


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## allie (Sep 16, 2006)

My dad sees doctors every couple of months and then some.  He has talked to them about quitting but they don't really offer much if any assistance.  After you have cancer, you are in the doctors office frequently until after 5 years when remission is declared. Even then, there are still annual checkups to ensure you stay cancer-free.  Not to mention, he is now fighting for disability due to the radiation side effects so has to see yet another doctor for that.  He is to the point of hating doctors and all they represent because while his cancer is gone he still has a very rough life with lots of pain and other issues.  He is afraid to even try to come visit us (900 miles away) because of his problems.  It has completely changed his life of freedom into one of almost being held captive in his home.

As for the institution of medicine, yes there are advances.  It's just my opinion that they will throw us bones but never reveal a true cure.  Hopefully, I am wrong but money makes the world go round and if they didn't throw out a bone every now and then people would eventually stop supporting cancer research, along with research for other diseases.


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## bigwheel (Sep 17, 2006)

If a person really wants to prevent breast cancer they need to try and talk ladies out of having abortions.  That is the leading cause of the ailment but since it do not fit with the liberal agenda the left wing main stream media do not report on it. 

bigwheel


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## Nick Prochilo (Sep 17, 2006)

bigwheel said:
			
		

> If a person really wants to prevent breast cancer they need to try and talk ladies out of having abortions.  That is the leading cause of the ailment but since it do not fit with the liberal agenda the left wing main stream media do not report on it.
> 
> bigwheel



Please explain where you got this info from. I'd like to read up on it.


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## Nick Prochilo (Sep 17, 2006)

bigwheel said:
			
		

> If a person really wants to prevent breast cancer they need to try and talk ladies out of having abortions.  That is the leading cause of the ailment but since it do not fit with the liberal agenda the left wing main stream media do not report on it.
> 
> bigwheel



Please explain where you got this info from. I'd like to read up on it.


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## bigwheel (Sep 18, 2006)

Just go to Goggle and plug in this phrase "abortion breast cancer." 

bigwheel


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## Nick Prochilo (Sep 18, 2006)

bigwheel said:
			
		

> Just go to Goggle and plug in this phrase "abortion breast cancer."
> 
> bigwheel



This article was there.  http://www.fwhc.org/abortion/abcancer.htm


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## bigwheel (Sep 18, 2006)

Yeppers..read that one too.  What must be kept in mind here is (to borrow a phrase from Ann Coulter) abortion is a holy sacrament for the godless religion of liberalism..very similar to the Lord's Supper for Christians. You dont really expect a liberal to tell the truth on the matter now do ya? It dont bother them to lie about anything else..doubt seriously if they want to get factual about something as important to them as killing unborn babies.  

bigwheel


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## wittdog (Sep 19, 2006)

ZBQ said:
			
		

> Bigwheel,
> 
> I am here to tell you that breast cancer has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with abortion or liberalism!!! FACT!!!!!!
> 
> ...


Much better said then I could have ZBQ.....my response probably would have got me banned or deleted.....Big Wheel this is the wrong forum to be posting half baked ideas that deal with some fundamental religious views.  Find some kind of bible thumping fire and brimstone site to expand on the cow fertilizer your spreading……one could draw a direct comparison to your views and  certain other religious fanatics that are attempting to fight a jihad against this country…..I know things tend to be a little backwards in Texus but the freedom of religion also protects us from religion (whether you brain washed individuals like it or not.  I come to this site to talk about BBQ not some crack pot religious views that blames everything bad that happens to some one else on their believe system and when something bad happens to them…they say that god is testing them….what a load of crap) …..So save it and tell other brain washed individuals that regurgitate  what ever some crazy pastor tells them…..or some talking head on the TV tells them……..for a forum that is dedicated to that type of garbage and talk Q while you’re here…..


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## Smokey_Joe (Sep 19, 2006)

AMEN!.............oops.....LOL.... I mean well said DOG.

The only thumpin' I wanna hear is the shag bark hickory hitting the backside of my firebox when I throw it in.


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## wittdog (Sep 19, 2006)

Smokey_Joe said:
			
		

> AMEN!.............oops.....LOL.... I mean well said DOG.
> 
> The only thumpin' I wanna hear is the shag bark hickory hitting the backside of my firebox when I throw it in.


Halleluiah bro Smokey Joe…..Testify……I was lost in the wilderness of BBQ…..I was brought up as a godless heathen who knew nothing but the taste of gas grilled ribs  …and parboiled meat…[smilie=rlp_smilie_003.gif] But for the grace of BBQ4U I have been found and baptized in the smell of hickory and lump charcoal….. :scratch  I now attempt to convert the masses to great Q
Archbishop and Demon Deacon of the Church of BBQ


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## Smokey_Joe (Sep 19, 2006)

bigwheel said:
			
		

> Yeppers..read that one too.  What must be kept in mind here is (to borrow a phrase from Ann Coulter) abortion is a holy sacrament for the godless religion of liberalism..very similar to the Lord's Supper for Christians. You dont really expect a liberal to tell the truth on the matter now do ya? It dont bother them to lie about anything else..doubt seriously if they want to get factual about something as important to them as killing unborn babies.
> 
> bigwheel



Anyone else but me see some ribs on the table at the last supper and some more good Q cookin' outside in the background?

bigwheel..... slow down and take a few deep breaths...... breathe.....

you OK now?....easy does it... save the fire and brimstone for your masses at your church.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

NOOOOOO.... it's NOT a cult......just DON'T drink the water! [smilie=lol_xtreme.gif]


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## wittdog (Sep 19, 2006)

wdroller said:
			
		

> ZBQ said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


wdroller as a non christian which god gives you martinis


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## wittdog (Sep 19, 2006)

well that's just great...god be with you


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## Unity (Sep 19, 2006)

wdroller said:
			
		

> wittdog said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You mean the Sibelius composition? or the vodka?   

--John  8)
(I'm glad I wasn't the only one offended by bigwheel's unbelievable rant.)


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## Wittdogs B (Sep 19, 2006)

Well, bigwheel, that certainly is something to think about... 

We had a doctor share with us some information about how to greatly reduce the chances of testicular cancer-- our vet said if we had our dog neutered it would accomplish that.  I would imagine it would work for humans as well.  It also greatly reduces the perpetuation of stupidity.


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## Smokey_Joe (Sep 19, 2006)

:scratch  ........<scratching head>...... :scratch 


   Are you recommending that bigwheel gets neutered to save the chance of him reproducing............, or testicular cancer?






_____________________________________________________________

Bob Barker says...."Have your pet spayed or neutered"


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## Smokey_Joe (Sep 19, 2006)

Spaying may be difficult....but nuetering is always an option




_____________________________________________________________

( Headline....Bob Barker has OVARIES!!! )


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## bigwheel (Sep 19, 2006)

Well did not realize this hit so close to a hot bed of godless liberalism. Shows whut I know huh? Fact is I had a cyber pal (male) who died of breast cancer so just because a person watched their Granny all their life to make sure she did not have a back alley deal with the Voodoo lady and her coat hanger do not mean it cant happen to somebody we know and love. Speaking strictly statistics here. To follow the thread as proposed I gonna have to take the liberty of praphrasing Archie Bunker when he said regarding lung cancer "Well me an Edith has both smoked all our lives and we aint dead yet."  How do so many retards manage to gather in one spot? 

bigwheel


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## Nick Prochilo (Sep 19, 2006)

bigwheel said:
			
		

> Well did not realize this hit so close to a hot bed of godless liberalism. Shows whut I know huh? Fact is I had a cyber pal (male) who died of breast cancer so just because a person watched their Granny all their life to make sure she did not have a back alley deal with the Voodoo lady and her coat hanger do not mean it cant happen to somebody we know and love. Speaking strictly statistics here. To follow the thread as proposed I gonna have to take the liberty of praphrasing Archie Bunker when he said regarding lung cancer "Well me an Edith has both smoked all our lives and we aint dead yet."  How do so many retards manage to gather in one spot?
> 
> bigwheel



Hard to believe you have been kicked off so many forums. You are an ass.


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## Puff1 (Sep 19, 2006)

Will somebody please Wheel The Big dumb ass away?


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## Smokey_Joe (Sep 19, 2006)

bigwheel said:
			
		

> Well did not realize this hit so close to a hot bed of godless liberalism. Shows whut I know huh? ................. How do so many retards manage to gather in one spot?
> 
> bigwheel



Outta line I think Bigwheel....many have jested with you about your opinion, and many have downright disagreed, and some have just badgered your views., as you have theirs..... but I'll double check and triple check, but I'm near 100% positive that none have made personal attacks to the point of calling you a "retard".....soooooooooooooooooooooo so uncool. 

Your last post shows your level of intelligence ( and I will leave that up to you to determine high intelligence or off the scales low ) everyone else I think has already figured it out.

Doing my best to keep this friendly comments and  bickering and badgering ... I have made my posts along with yours and all the others. But sir I think this issue has stirred you to the point of a just plain "uncool" post calling us all retards, not to mention your "retard" comment....How do you supposedly fight and argue for what you do morally and then use words like "retard"? I myself take immense offense to that politically incorrect word, as my cousin and her husband have 2 mentally handicapped children and she herself works 10 hours a day helping elderly adults with the same afflictions. Maybe you or one of your family some day......God forbid.

If this "gathering in one spot" of some many people you don't like bothers you........why are you here?

I know cancer is a rough subject for many, and I'm probably sure that EVERY single person on the site has lost AT LEAST one person close to them from cancer in their lifetime......which is a SAD thing.........

BUT.......

I think we are all entitled to our own opinions and views on it without making personal attacks.  NO?

Maybe click "PREVIEW" at bottom next time and reread what you wrote before clicking submit.  It may be just me, and I'm sure I'm not the one to tell you.......just my .02.........UNCOOL


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## bigwheel (Sep 19, 2006)

Well see I dont care about whut you think or whut your policitcally correct retard pals thinks. I really think that is how we differ. 

bigwheel


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## Smokey_Joe (Sep 19, 2006)

I see sir that you have come to a battle of witts unarmed, so I sir shall withdraw due to the unfair advatage I have over you. :ROFL  :!:


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## Wittdogs B (Sep 19, 2006)

Smokey_Joe said:
			
		

> I see sir that you have come to a battle of witts unarmed, so I sir shall withdraw due to the unfair advatage I have over you. :ROFL  :!:


 


       [smilie=a_bravo.gif]  [smilie=a_bravo.gif]  [smilie=a_bravo.gif]

I'd say that about sums it up!


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## cflatt (Sep 19, 2006)

I really fought to not reply and will probably kick myself later for this. Two things.  first i dont know about your Bible but mine says "judge not" . Second there is a phrase attirbuted to a pretty wise man named Francis, some call him St Francis of Assisi. .....go out into all the world and teach the gospel...and if necessary use words. I dont think the way to impress others with your beliefs is to come on and make rash generalizations, trying to force  them on others who might disagree. perhaps you should take a look around this board, there are many here who have never made a bold, outlandish statement of their beliefs, but look at how they act and what others say of them and you can tell. That goes much further than words. and with that I apologize to the rest and climb down off my soapbox.


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## Griff (Sep 19, 2006)

Where is Foat Wuth? I pulled out an atlas of the small state of Texas and could find no Foat Wuth.

Griff


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## bigwheel (Sep 20, 2006)

Well sir if you can find the Alcan Highway and you got 14 spare tires and a bbq grate over the windshield and keep headed South you should get here eventually if the Lord's willing and the Eskimoe ladies dont get pissed ect.  I seen a big bag of them scallops on sale today at Tom Thumb for sixty five bucks.  Whuts up with that?  Dont yall get em free? How much is the proscuitto?

bigwheel





			
				Griff said:
			
		

> Where is Foat Wuth? I pulled out an atlas of the small state of Texas and could find no Foat Wuth.
> 
> Griff


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## Griff (Sep 20, 2006)

Mr. wheel

I am one of those "godless liberals" although I respectively disagree with your assertion that liberals must be "godless". I think She likes us. None the less, back to my original question, where is Foat Wuth? I can't find it on any maps.

Griff


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## bigwheel (Sep 20, 2006)

Well if you got a map its about half way twixt El Paso and New Yawk City. 

bigwheel


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## wittdog (Sep 20, 2006)

You know what guys……I think most of us have shown remarkable restraint in regards to this topic…….some people are what’s called pot stirrers…..they say things that I sincerely hope they don’t really believe but say them to infuriate others….the funny thing about those types of people is they can’t stand themselves so they want the rest of us to be as miserable as them…the best way to deal with those types of people is just to leave them alone…eventually they will crawl back to what ever rock they crawled out from under…and go away…..so unless it’s a bib or food topic…I’m not having it…..to paraphrase Jack W’s signature…never argue with an idiot cuz it may be difficult to someone on the outside to tell the difference…..a discussion in which people are willing to listen to and attempt to understand the others position is one thing…a discussion where someone is just spouting fertilizer as to inflame others is just a waste of time……a do believe that the retard comment was out of line…..but I guess when you feel that you have the sword/badge of righteousness on your side…well….a bully with a badge is just a state sponsored bully……..

BTW it's a shame u have to be that way because you are very knowledgeable when it comes to bbq and other things food


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## Helen_Paradise (Sep 20, 2006)

wittdog said:
			
		

> You know what guys……I think most of us have shown remarkable restraint in regards to this topic…….some people are what’s called pot stirrers…..they say things that I sincerely hope they don’t really believe but say them to infuriate others….the funny thing about those types of people is they can’t stand themselves so they want the rest of us to be as miserable as them…the best way to deal with those types of people is just to leave them alone…eventually they will crawl back to what ever rock they crawled out from under…and go away…..so unless it’s a bib or food topic…I’m not having it…..to paraphrase Jack W’s signature…never argue with an idiot cuz it may be difficult to someone on the outside to tell the difference…..a discussion in which people are willing to listen to and attempt to understand the others position is one thing…a discussion where someone is just spouting fertilizer as to inflame others is just a waste of time……a do believe that the retard comment was out of line…..but I guess when you feel that you have the sword/badge of righteousness on your side…well….a bully with a badge is just a state sponsored bully……..
> 
> BTW it's a shame u have to be that way because you are very knowledgeable when it comes to bbq and other things food



Well said...


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## bigwheel (Sep 20, 2006)

Ahh well..I never claimed to be perfect.  Thanks for pointing out all my faults.  I know it will help me to become more contrite. Thanks. 

bigwheel


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## Nick Prochilo (Sep 20, 2006)

But I doubt it.


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