# NY Times bread recipe--what FUN



## Gretchen

This was in the Times this week and is sweeping other cooking boards. It is a new way to bake a loaf of "artisanal" bread. And it flat out works. I made a beautiful loaf yesterday.
You use a pan to bake it in--a Le Creuset, stockpot, Corningware, cloche (which is what I happened to have).

It does take 2 days to make--one to put together 4 ingredients and the next to let rise and bake. It is NO knead--you just bearly fold the very wet dough over itself twice.  The interior of my loaf was airy and "pully" and the crust was formidably crusty!!  

Do not undersalt--I did (didn't really measure). And others have mentioned this too.  It was delicious with good olive oil, coarse salt and coarse pepper however!!  There is a video on the Times site that you may be able to access.

This is kitchenelf:

Due to copyright violation please follow this link to the New York Times No-Knead Bread Recipe.  You will have to sign up but there is no fee and it's painless


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## boufa06

Great recipe, Gretchen.  Thanks for posting it!


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## bethzaring

Looks very interesting!  Generally I am not into "artisanal" breads, but I will try this recipe.

Gretchen, did you initially oil the bowl for the first step?  And specifically, what flour did you use?

Thanks for the recipe!


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## BreezyCooking

Thanks so much for posting that you tried this recipe & that it works!!

I saved it from the Times with the intent of trying it, but there's nothing like a personal recommendation.


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## Gretchen

This is so unbelievably easy it isn't even funny. You follow the directions as given. No oiling no nothing.
I don't make artisanal breads either because --well, they are hard to do.
The loaf that you get looks like the best European bakery!! Crusty, pully, holey.


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## QSis

We'll see, Gretchen.  My dough is going through it's 18-hour rise now.

I bought "Rapid Rise" yeast since my store didn't have anything labeled "instant yeast".

I am afraid of yeast - have never been able to make it work, even with a thermometer in the water.  And yeast senses my fear.

Though I've never had luck making bread, I am determined to learn.  This recipe sounded like one I could "get back on the horse" with.

Thanks for posting it - I will report the outcome.

Lee


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## kitchenelf

I might have to make this bread ahead of time and use it for my Wild Mushroom Bread Pudding at Thanksgiving!!!


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## Gretchen

kitchenelf said:
			
		

> I might have to make this bread ahead of time and use it for my Wild Mushroom Bread Pudding at Thanksgiving!!!


 
The taste is a bit "tangy" so it really might complement it nicely.


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## kitchenelf

Thanks Gretchen - I sent you a PM - this answer will suffice!


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## QSis

HO. LY. COW!!!

Gretchen this is fantastic!!!

I just tried a buttered slice of my first successful loaf of bread EVER, and it was unbelievable! Just as you described - DELICIOUS and perfect!

I'm so tickled with myself, with the recipe and with YOU! I sent it to a ton of my friends, many of whom are brilliant cooks and who are probably rolling their eyes at my glee, but I just had to share this with them!

I will have some tonight, with olive oil and seasonings, to go with my taco-less taco salad.

Thank you SO much for posting this!

Lee


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## Gretchen

It is as depicted!! pictures that pretty don't lie. Thanks for posting the example.


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## expatgirl

Yum!  Wild Mushroom Bread Pudding!!!

If you have time, kitchenelf could you direct us to that recipe or what thread it's located on. This place is full of wild mushrooms!!

Thanks and I'm definitely going to give this bread recipe a try as well--I love to make bread!!

Thanks!!



			
				kitchenelf said:
			
		

> I might have to make this bread ahead of time and use it for my Wild Mushroom Bread Pudding at Thanksgiving!!!


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## jennyema

Is this Mark Bittman's column?

I am curious how the gluten develops without kneading. 

I have heard rave reviews of it from other places too.  Will try it soon ...


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## kitchenelf

expatgirl said:
			
		

> Yum!  Wild Mushroom Bread Pudding!!!
> 
> If you have time, kitchenelf could you direct us to that recipe or what thread it's located on. This place is full of wild mushrooms!!
> 
> Thanks and I'm definitely going to give this bread recipe a try as well--I love to make bread!!
> 
> Thanks!!



Here you go - Wild Mushroom Bread Pudding

Be sure and read all the notes people post - you can learn some good tips.


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## Gretchen

I used bread flour. Others have used just AP.  The sponge rises for the 12-18 hours it sits on the counter. It is lovely to smell.

We had some tonight with EVOO at our tailgate and let me put THIS bug in your collective ears.
This bread would make KILLER paninis!!!!!


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## Half Baked

Gretchen said:
			
		

> I used bread flour. Others have used just AP. The sponge rises for the 12-18 hours it sits on the counter. It is lovely to smell. quote]
> 
> The smell is amazing.  My bread is doing the 2 hr rise, right now.  I sure don't have any seams though.  Mine is like the blob.  Hope I didn't do anything wrong.


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## Gretchen

Half Baked said:
			
		

> Gretchen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used bread flour. Others have used just AP. The sponge rises for the 12-18 hours it sits on the counter. It is lovely to smell. quote]
> 
> The smell is amazing. My bread is doing the 2 hr rise, right now. I sure don't have any seams though. Mine is like the blob. Hope I didn't do anything wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It can be longer than 2 hours but just don't expect a BIG rise.  It isn't. There just isn't enough "structure"--or yeast!-- to do that. This is a shallow dense loaf with all the good "pulliness" of peasant bread.  It is also more moist than most breads--but it is really done.
> Prepare to be amazed!!
Click to expand...


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## Half Baked

I'm really looking forward to serving this tonight.  I can't believe the smell - kinda sourdoughish.


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## kadesma

_Ok Gretchen, ya got me  There is nothing I love more than making bread, so I'm going to give it a try tomorrow or start it this afternoon if daughter picks up the kids on time..Your description and the picture Qsis posted did the trick..And, thank you._

_kadesma _


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## Debbie

Gretchen said:
			
		

> 4. At least a half-hour before dough is ready, heat oven to 450 degrees. Put a 6- to 8-quart heavy covered pot (cast iron, enamel, Pyrex or ceramic) illy browned. Cool on a rack.
> 
> Yield: One 1 1/2-pound loaf





  I wonder if this recipe could be cut in half.. because the biggest heavy pot, I have is a 4 quart pyrex???


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## Gretchen

Your 4qt. pyrex is big enough.  I don't think this can be cut in half.


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## jennyema

Gretchen said:
			
		

> Half Baked said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There just isn't enough "structure"--or yeast!-- to do that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am still perplexed at how it comes out so well without being kneaded.  How is there any structure at all?
> 
> I've made bread almost every weekend for 2 months now (a wee little obsession of the moment).  Have read about 50 pages of Shirley Corriher's Cookwise on bread/flour/gluten/water/salt/yeast, yada yada yada.  From what I've read, this doesn't seem possible.
> 
> I will try this one this weekend.  But still.... HOW does this work?
Click to expand...


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## Debbie

Gretchen said:
			
		

> Your 4qt. pyrex is big enough.  I don't think this can be cut in half.




It wouldn't end up being squished?


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## GB

You need to buy the magic flour Jenny 

This bread looks amazing. I can't wait until I have some time to try it.


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## Half Baked

This bread is sooooo good. I've only allowed myself one (big  ) slice before dinner. I kept looking at the dough and looking, when I tried to move it, it was so sticky - at that point I had my doubts.

I love the crust, I love bread, I love how easy it is. This bread will be the one that all others have to meet the standards of.... 

I'm going to have to buy a bowl, pot and some linen towels just for making the bread because it sure takes alot of time and the towels definately have to be washed.   Next time I'm going to try spraying pam on plastic and give it a try.


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## GB

OK I have a dumb question...how can I tell the difference between cotton and terry cloth and what will happen if I use the wrong towel?


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## Half Baked

It stuck so much to my linen towels that I can't imagine cotton being better at all.  If you use terry cloth, you'll never get the bread off of it.  This dough is barely goo...lol

A reg cotten towel is flat, like a dish towel.


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## kitchenelf

Terry cloth is nubby.  Cotton is like a flour sack.  The terry cloth may leave nubby deposits on the bread but cover with enough butter and they won't be noticeable!!!   That's my guess anyway - no cotton police will show up at your house - I don't think!!!


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## Half Baked

I suggest you rub so much flour into that towel that it fills every little thread and has a flat flour bottom.


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## Half Baked

Debbie said:
			
		

> I wonder if this recipe could be cut in half.. because the biggest heavy pot, I have is a 4 quart pyrex???


 
Mine barely rose while baking.  A 4 qt would be great.  I may use that next time myself.


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## kadesma

GB,
you put that bread on terry cloth and you're gonna have fuzzy bread 
kadesma


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## kadesma

Half Baked said:
			
		

> This bread is sooooo good. I've only allowed myself one (big  ) slice before dinner. I kept looking at the dough and looking, when I tried to move it, it was so sticky - at that point I had my doubts.
> 
> I love the crust, I love bread, I love how easy it is. This bread will be the one that all others have to meet the standards of....
> 
> I'm going to have to buy a bowl, pot and some linen towels just for making the bread because it sure takes alot of time and the towels definately have to be washed. Next time I'm going to try spraying pam on plastic and give it a try.


Jan,
I always pam my plastic wrap and even the bowl nothing sticks to it. My foccacia dough is always sticky and I even pam my hands or else keep dunking them in warm water to keep the dough from attaching itself to me.

kadesma


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## GB

kadesma said:
			
		

> GB,
> you put that bread on terry cloth and you're gonna have fuzzy bread
> kadesma


Well I have eaten worse I guess


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## Gretchen

Debbie, what Half Baked said. This loaf is only about 6-7" across and 3-4" high.  On other boards people have baked it in Corningware dutch "ovens"--I have one--it is about 4"deep.
GB, I used cornmeal. No sticking at all.
The dough is really not terribly sticky on the surface once you have turned it out on a floured surface and turned it a couple of times. Mine is quite floury.
Any smooth kitchen towel is fine.  Basically you could use parchment probably.
As for structure, the sponge provides it. And there is a bit of oven spring from the 2 hour last rise.  People who have use soft flour (either by mistake or whatever) got FLAT loaves. At least AP flour or bread flour.  Lots are using whole wheat, rye, etc. combos with it too.


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## Half Baked

Maybe I had too much water in it because mine was very sticky. I'll be more exact next time.

btw, Mr HB and Mr HB's dad ate almost the whole thing.  

I should begin another one tonight but I've had too long a day and am way too tired.

I love cornmeal and will definately use that next time.


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## JoAnn L.

I went on the New York Times site and watched the video. Very helpful. Thanks.


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## Gretchen

Half Baked said:
			
		

> Maybe I had too much water in it because mine was very sticky. I'll be more exact next time.
> 
> btw, Mr HB and Mr HB's dad ate almost the whole thing.
> 
> I should begin another one tonight but I've had too long a day and am way too tired.
> 
> I love cornmeal and will definately use that next time.


 
When you turn it out you generously flour the board and then the top of the dough/sponge. This is the time to get it to a not so sticky consistency. Incorporate enough flour by turning it back on itself so it can be formed into a kind of ball--a bit of a "flat" one, but it will hold its shape. It isn't very sticky at that point.


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## GB

Is fresh active yeast the same as instant yeast. Can I use fresh active in this recipe?


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## bullseye

GB said:
			
		

> Is fresh active yeast the same as instant yeast. Can I use fresh active in this recipe?


I think you would need to proof it, first.


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## GB

Thanks bullseye. So how would I do that with this recipe (can you tell I never bake)?

Would I just replace the water part with warm water (what is the right temp to proof yeast) and let it sit for about 15 minutes and then combine everything?


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## bullseye

GB said:
			
		

> Thanks bullseye. So how would I do that with this recipe (can you tell I never bake)?
> 
> Would I just replace the water part with warm water (what is the right temp to proof yeast) and let it sit for about 15 minutes and then combine everything?


 I'm not a great baker myself, GB, but you would use 100-115* water (some say add a little sugar), and reduce the recipe's liquid by the amount of the proof liquid.  The need for proofing seems to have something to do with the difference in particle size in the different types of yeast.


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## Half Baked

I keep playing with the bread. I greased the pan and had an even better crust but the baked on grease was too hard to clean off so I won't do that again. 

Also, this time, I put cornmeal on my plastic cutting board, covered the bread with Pam sprayed saran wrap and then covered it with a towel. I worked just the same and I didn't have those horrible messy towels.

I love this bread.  

Speaking of Pyrex, it isn't supposed to go in that hot of an oven, is it?


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## Gretchen

GB said:
			
		

> Thanks bullseye. So how would I do that with this recipe (can you tell I never bake)?
> 
> Would I just replace the water part with warm water (what is the right temp to proof yeast) and let it sit for about 15 minutes and then combine everything?


 
You don't have to proof it. You can use warm water if you want to. or NOT. Don't make this hard!!!!! ;o)
It is EASY.
The only thing I think that people are doing possibly "wrong" is not flouring the turned out "sponge" enough. As I have said, i turn it out onto the counter with a goodly amount of flour on it, put the dough on it, and a bit more flour on top. Then just scrape the dough from the bottom back over the top to get a bit more flour in it. 
I also try not to completely deflate it.
Form into the ball very lightly--it doesn't really sit up in a ball like a kneaded ball. It is pretty flat.
Put it on the towel. the last loaf I made I used bran to "flour' the towel. If you are getting a lot of sticky dough in your towel I think you don't have enough flour incorporated. It is NOT terribly sticky on the towel--it is very soft, pliable, relilient when poked.
Someone on another board put the towel into a colander and said that helped to turn it out.
Dont' grease the pan. Don't add sugar.

Sorry I didn't see this until now--I did answer the other new question about yeast. I have made this 4 or 5 times now-I'd be glad to help.


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## GB

Thanks Gretchen. I will keep it easy and just use it as if it were instant. I can't wait to taste the results. My wife picked the wrong time to go on a low carb diet.


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## Gretchen

This recipe is sweeping the internet and I'm a bit surprised that more here have not tried it. It came out 10 days ago and is the most e-mailed letter (I think in history) to the Times!!  
On other cooking  boards there are literally HUNDREDS of posts with results, tweaks, questions, ooohs, and aaaahs about it.  Lots of different combos of flours, herb additions.  I like it just straight.
Bread flour IS a big yes.  ONe person used White Lily flour and another pastry flour with naturally disastrous results.  However, I have just found White Lily BREAD flour--I am sure it is new, because I would have bought it previously. Lovely stuff.


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## GB

I started the process at 11 last night and my dough is looking great now. I can't wait (but will) to get this into the oven and then into my mouth.


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## sparrowgrass

I have done the bread 3 times now.  I have been using the no-knead, long slow rise for a couple years, but the hot pan idea is new to me.

Don't sweat the details.  Any kind of yeast, as long as it is alive, will work.  I use generic AP flour--works fine.

Length of rise and kitchen temp can vary, too.  This time of year, my kitchen is cold (60), unless the oven is on.  I make the dough the night before, and bake it almost 24 hours after I mix it.

And last week, I mixed it on Tuesday for a Wednesday bake--well, duh, forgot I had a meeting on Wednesday.  Baked it on Thursday, and it came out ok.  (Not as good as before, but ok.)

Add some more flour and some olive oil to the recipe, and you will have the best pizza ever.


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## GB

What oven temp do you all use? In the recipe it says 450, but when I watched the video from the NY times they said 500 or even 515.


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## JMediger

I have a question about the baking pot ... I have an 8 quart Calphalon (hard andodized - spelling?) stock pot. My question is about the sides, they are quite tall, will this affect the result? I guess I'm picturing my pyrex and it is all short and squat, not as tall as the stock pot. And I'm still perplexed by the towel thing. Why can't you just let it do it's next rise back in the bowl covered with a towel? I tried to see the video (at NYTimes) someone referenced but they wanted $4.95 to just read the article ... 

AND ALSO ... someone talked about having a colder kitchen. Ours hovers right about 65 this time of year. How much longer do I need to factor the rise?

Oh my ... this might be too much for my linear brain to wrap itself around. I might have to just stick to the old way!


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## GB

Maybe this link will work for the free video.


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## Gretchen

Don't worry about the kitchen temp. That is where mine is. You just let it rise until you are ready--or you think it is.

The towel thing. It is the vehicle you NEED to convey the dough to the baking pot. This dough is so soft (I am going to try to get away from "wet") that you could not pick it up and have it hold its shape.
Get your pot hot (more later) as directed. Take the lid off and put the bottom somewhere convenient--perhaps in your sink which would be below your counter top.  Take the towel by the edges and begin to roll and lift it until the dough literally "plops" into the bottom of the pan. Put the lid on and back to the oven.  If the blob of dough goes a bit wonky on a side, just shake the pot to staighten it out.

In the pictures in the paper (I haven't seen the video either), it shows the guy dumping the towel. There is this CLOUD of bran (that he used) coming up from it. And note, you are dumping the TOP of your dough so be sure that there is enough cornmeal or bran or flour on it.  It will be the bottom and you need to keep it from sticking--just as you would if baking bread or a pizza on a baking stone. This is the same idea.
I have an 8qt. "knockoff" calphalon pot and I think it would be fine. The premise of this recipe is to create a small oven in a large oven for the purpose of steam and heat.
Not sure about your Pyrex but I would try the stockpot first. Many have done it in stockpots.

Go for it!!!  The old way.  I will submit you will not get better bread "the old way".  This bread looks like it came from a boulangerie or Panera Bread--a true artisanal loaf!! CRUSTY, pully, holey!! I have dreamed for years of making anything close to this.
Again, I say to ALL, don't make this hard.


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## JMediger

Thank you GB - that was VERY helpful!  I question the discrepancy in the temps too ... ?


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## JMediger

Thank you Gretchen ... After I saw the video, I kind of get the towel thing.  I think when I see such easy things like this, I tend to get suspicious and think, alright, where's the catch ... you know?
I'm going to try this today / tomorrow ...


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## GB

I baked my bread last night. I decided to go with a 500 degree oven as the video mentioned. When I took the lid off after baking for a half hour it looked perfect. I should have pulled it out of the oven then, but I did not trust myself so I followed the instructions and went another 15 minutes without the lid. My wife came about about 14 minutes into it and said it smelled like it was burning. I checked just as my timer was going off and sure enough it was too dark on top. It was not burned, but a few seconds more and it would have been.

The bread is amazing. I love it so much. I will be starting another one tomorrow and will bake it on Wed. to bring to dinner on Thurs. I have a feeling I will be making this often.


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## jennyema

I made mine yesterday.

I made it exactly per the recipe except that I didn't have instant yeast, and instead used active dry.

My two observations about the recipe are: too much water and not enough salt. I sort of knew about these issues, as there is a lot of discussion of this recipe on other foodie sites.

Salt is a palate thing, but I think it needs a bit more.

The water thing was a slight problem. It was humid when I was making the bread, so I probably should have adjusted, but I wanted to follow the recipe.

The "sponge" worked great. Took it out of the bowl the next morning and turned it out onto a floured countertop. It was really runny. I needed a lot more flour than the recipe called for just to absorb pooled liquid.

I didn't want to add too much flour (IMO it could have taken at least a cup more) so I turned it onto a floured towel in it's "loose" state.

It really didn't rise as much as it doubled in size outward. 

When it came time to plop into the heated LC oven, it was so wet that it soaked through the flour and stuck to the towel. I had to rip the towel away, which deflated the bread somewhat from its already flat state.

I baked for less time than it called for both covered and uncovered because I thought the time seemed too long and I was right. *Bread is done when it achieves an internal temp of 210 degress.* Mine browned really well and came to 210 in about 10 min less than the recipe called for.

The bread had excellent, excellent crust and a wonderful texture. *Clearly the best bread I have ever made*, except for the fact that it's only 2 inches thick at it's highest. Oh well.

And there was a small problem with a slight garlic taste, possibly because I had justy made Jambalaya in the french oven.... 

I think I'll use less water, a bit more salt, and am considering using parchment paper instead of a towel. *Anyone have an opinion on parchment paper?* I am a bit worried that it will be too slippery and will cause the dough to slide outward instead of rising up.

Anyway -- *it's fantastic bread* and I'm going to make it again for Tgiving.


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## GB

Jenny I had some similar experiences as you. My bread stuck to the towel and I had to tear it off as I dumped it into my LC. Mine also is about 2 inches or so at its highest point. 

I am thinking of trying parchment as well.

Jenny here is my question for you...how to you clean the towel that the dough stuck to? I do not want to just put it in the wash and gum up my washing machine. Is there a trick that you know of?

My bread was also the best bread I have ever made by far. I can't wait to make my next one.


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## subfuscpersona

GB said:
			
		

> here is my question for you...how to you clean the towel that the dough stuck to? I do not want to just put it in the wash and gum up my washing machine. Is there a trick that you know of?



hi GB

soak/scrub the towel in *cold* water - if you use hot it will kinda "set" the dough and flour into the towel and it will be harder to get off. When you've gotten off the worst of it, then you can throw it in the washer as usual.

I can't wait to try this recipe! It is all the rage.


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## GB

Thanks subfuscpersona. I will give that a shot.


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## Half Baked

I used my plastic cutting board with lots of flour on it, a piece of saran wrap that I had sprayed with Pam and put a towel over that.  It came out as well as using the towels covered in flour.

I'll never lay it on a cloth towel again.  That was a huge mess.


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## GB

I like that plan HB. That is what I will do Wed. when I make my next loaf.


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## Gretchen

I have proof positive it can't be messed up. I tried hard.
But to just comment on some things that have been said, and everyone can certainly do the recipe and adjust for themselves.
But,I think in my first post, I warned not to undersalt. I'm not sure if you could oversalt this.
Now to the amount of flour added.  Yesterday through several mismeasurements and being in a hurry, I tested a lot of things.
One part of my sponge was VERY VERY wet.  I probably added an additional cup of flour to get it to a point I could let it rise. I thought for sure it would throw the salt off. It didn't. The bread was as delicious as other loaves.
The towel is not a problem for me. Sorry it is for others. I will mention that there does need to be meal or something on TOP, even if you use saran, because that is the "face" of the dough that goes in the bottom of the baking receptacle.
Many on other boards are cutting the amount of water to 1 1/2C.
I also do NOT use a large bowl for my mixing or rising. I use a 5-6" square tupperware and it is neat to see the dough/sponge double in it--going up the sides.
I am finding that I don't have to bake the last 10 minutes at all--done and good in the half hour. I am baking in a clay cloche.
As for the towel again, others are saying just put it in a plastic bag and freeze it, like a pastry cloth. My cloths are not getting dough in them--use bran and cornmeal.
And if I haven't said it here, on other boards people are also baking their regular artisanal kneaded bread recipes using this method and are getting spectacular results according to them.  High rise--crusty crusty.


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## JMediger

Alright ... I just pulled my loaf out of the oven and it smells wonderful (although, it is making a strange snap, krackle, pop sound ... ??? ).  I didn't have the towel issue but then again I spread out about a cup of flour before I plopped it out.  Then I patted about another 1/2 cup onto the top before I folded the towel over it.  When I took the lid off the pot for the final browning, I was concerned it would stay white with all the flour on it but it really didn't.  When I put it onto my cooling rack, I used a pastry brush to brush about half of it off and it looks like something I've seen in the bakery.  Not sure, though, if it will affect it's taste.  I'll let you know.  The amount didn't seem to affect the rise or anything.  

One thing I will note is that if you don't get it nicely into the bottom of the pan on the first plop, you don't have much time to get it neat.  My pan is tall so that might have had something to do with it ... It was screaming hot and the dough seemed to get tight the minute it went in.  Unfortunately, it was kind of folded weird and shaking didn't help much.  As a result, the top is much more artistic than normal loaves I think ...


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## GB

JMediger, mine made the same snap crackle pop sounds too. It went on for a while too.


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## JMediger

Thank you GB, that makes me feel better!
I couldn't wait so I only let it cool for like 10 minutes and I had to taste it.

OH

My

GOODNESS

That's all I have to say.
Seriously.
I AM a believer!


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## Gretchen

_Alright ... I just pulled my loaf out of the oven and it smells wonderful (although, it is making a strange snap, krackle, pop sound ... ??? ). I didn't have the towel issue but then again I spread out about a cup of flour before I plopped it out. Then I patted about another 1/2 cup onto the top before I folded the towel over it._

Just RIGHT. Use as much flour as it takes to get it to the stage you can handle it.  Very forgiving bread--as yeast breads are.


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## Gretchen

[.

This is kitchenelf:

Due to copyright violation please follow this link to the New York Times No-Knead Bread Recipe. You will have to sign up but there is no fee and it's painless  [/quote]

This does take you to the recipe directly which is great. I guess if you sign up you can read Bittman's article and conversation with the baker who "developed" this recipe.
On another board there is a quote from a blog taking Bittman to task for ballyhooing this as a "new" way. Apparently ______(author whose name I cannot call) has a similar recipe in her book No Need to Knead. But as the discussion went, apparently she didn't "sell" the method because of many who were familiar with that book, they didn't remember it.

It is just such a fun and rewarding recipe.


The one thing the blog author disagrees with is that Bittman says he doesn't particularly like the cloche--the blogger does. And I do too. I have been meaning to try my LC, but just keep dumping it into my cloche. It is getting VERY black on the bottom from use!!


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## kitchenelf

As I stated "you will have to sign up".  Once you click on that link, sign up, continue to bread recipe.  It only takes you to the recipe if you are already signed up.  Signing up is no big deal if anyone wonders.


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## Gretchen

kitchenelf said:
			
		

> As I stated "you will have to sign up". Once you click on that link, sign up, continue to bread recipe. It only takes you to the recipe if you are already signed up. Signing up is no big deal if anyone wonders.


 
Oh, my bad. That was why it took me to it. Sorry.  Didn't mean to mislead.


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## subfuscpersona

*Links to Download the NYT No-knead Bread Recipe (includes photos)*

This recipe, published by the New York Times on Nov 8, is so popular with DC bakers I put together 2 versions from the NYT article for those who might want them. Both versions are in Adobe Acrobat format and will display in your browser. (Most of you already have the Acrobat reader on your computer. If you don't, you can get _it for free_ here)

Version one is just the recipe and instructions, complete with photos. It will print on one page. You can get it here

Version 2 has the recipe and instructions, complete with photos, plus the write-up by Mark Bittman. It will print on 3 pages. You can get it here.

You can print them and/or save them to your computer. Hope you find them useful. I'm off to start my bread!


----------



## JoAnn L.

subfuscpersona said:
			
		

> This recipe, published by the New York Times on Nov 8, is so popular with DC bakers I put together 2 versions from the NYT article for those who might want them. Both versions are in Adobe Acrobat format and will display in your browser. (Most of you already have the Acrobat reader on your computer. If you don't, you can get _it for free_ here)
> 
> Version one is just the recipe and instructions, complete with photos. It will print on one page. You can get it here
> 
> Version 2 has the recipe and instructions, complete with photos, plus the write-up by Mark Bittman. It will print on 3 pages. You can get it here.
> 
> You can print them and/or save them to your computer. Hope you find them useful. I'm off to start my bread!


 
Thank you so much!!


----------



## carolelaine

I made the bread over the weekend and we liked it.  So easy and fun.


----------



## subfuscpersona

*Link to NYT Video for No Knead Bread*

here's a working link to the video on this recipe No Knead Bread Video

Anyone who is contemplating making this bread should watch this video carefully. I don't know how long the link will work so watch it soon!

Gretchen - thanks so much for posting this. I'm off to give you karma now...


----------



## subfuscpersona

*resolving the "how much water should I use" question*

A great deal of confusion has arisen whether bakers should use 1-1/2 cups water (as recommended by baker Jim Lahey in the video) or 1-5/8 cups water (as recommended by writer Mark Bittman in the printed recipe). There are many complaints that 1-5/8 cups water makes the dough "too wet".

Both recipes are otherwise identical (3 cups flour, 1/4 tsp yeast, 1-1/4 tsp salt) so which one is right?

They both are, because the real question is *how much does a cup of flour weigh*?

If you use what is known as the "scoop the flour lightly into a measuring cup and level off" method, then recipe writers generally agree that 1 cup flour = about 4.5 oz. This is very similar to how Jim Lahey is measuring flour in the video.

However, research has shown that home cooks often use what I call a "put the measuring cup in the flour canister and smoosh it up against the sides" method, in which case 1 cup flour = about 5 oz. Mark Bittman, our canny food writer, knows this.

Lets do some simple math and calculate the *hydration level* of the dough, which is simply *the weight of the water divided by the weight of the flour*.

If a cup of flour is 4.5 oz and you use Lahey's 1-1/2 cups of water, then 12oz water divided by 13.5oz flour is *89%* hydration.

If a cup of flour is 5 oz and you use Bittman's 1-5/8 cups of water, then 13oz water divided by 15oz flour is *87%* hydration.

These hydration levels are very similar, so there is no real difference.

How do *you* measure flour? (I use a scale.)


----------



## JMediger

scoop ... tap ... level

Just to note, when I measured the water for this, I "eye-balled" it in my dry measuring cup since my liquid measuring cups were all in the washer.  I filled it to where I thought it was just slightly above 1/2 full.

So now a new question regarding this bread ... how are herbs or garlic going to affect it?  Anyone tried modifications with additional ingredients?  I don't want to ruin a good thing but I just can see it with some extra flavors to compliment different meal ideas I  have ...


----------



## JMediger

Oh hey look ... I'm a member of the last post club - again.
But seriously ... I have a question with this bread.  I am at my sister's house and want to make this for them.  However, they have All - Clad stainless, not Calphalon like I have.  Has anyone baked this in SS?
Thank you!


----------



## subfuscpersona

*OMG Make This Bread! Part I: on Equipment and Ingredients*

I've made this bread five times now using the recipe as published by the New York Times. It just keeps getting better.

Gretchen's posts here are all spot on. Read them! At the risk of redundancy, here are some observations (with photos)...

[size=+3]Equipment[/size]
[size=+2]The Pot and Lid - Required[/size]
People elsewhere have reported success using enameled cast iron, cast iron, ceramic (La Cloche or crock pot insert) and anodized aluminum (Calphalon). I haven't seen anyone who used Pyrex yet. The pot must have a snug-fitting lid (to hold in the steam when the bread bakes).

Some enameled cast iron pots have a plastic knob on the lid; in this case, cover the knob with tin foil to protect it against heat damage.

While the recipe calls for a 6 to 8 quart size, others have down-sized with success - the smallest size used was 4 quart capacity. All else being equal, obviously the dough rises less when baked in the larger size. I would say the sides should be at least 4" for a smaller capacity pot.

I use a 5 quart cast iron Dutch oven (not enameled) with a cast iron lid.




[size=+2]Dough Scraper - recommended[/size]
A dough scraper (aka "bench scraper") made it easier for me to shape the dough and to move the shaped dough onto the towel for the final rise. They're cheap on eBay ($5 or less plus max $5 for shipping to continental US) or amazon (go to amazon.com and search for "dough scraper" here are the results of my search on amazon.)





If you don't have one and can't wait to buy one, go to your local hardware and get one of those tools to scrape paint off the walls (6" to 10" wide).



[size=+2]Rising Container - optional (for the chicken-hearted)[/size]
The recipe shows the dough resting flat on a towel for the final rise. This dough tends to spread out rather than up if you let it rise flat. Some bakers had trouble plopping it into the pot when it was ready to bake and recommended using a large (towel-lined!) sieve or a colander. 

My baking arsenal already includes a rising basket. It is round, plastic and cost $1. I used it the first few times. Once I had a better feel for the dough, I let it rise flat.





If you go the rising container route, something with holes is better than a bowl. The dough benefits from air circulation during this 2-hour rise. Using a container puts a little more weight on the bottom of the dough so make sure you use wheat bran or coarse cornmeal on the towel in addition to rubbing in lots of flour.​
[size=+3]Ingredients[/size]

Rather than repeating the ingredients, just look at my link to recipe and instructions  and/or the more complete  link to recipe and instructions plus Bittman's write-ups. I created these files from the original NY Times articles and uploaded them to my personal website. The links are in Adobe Acrobat Reader format; you are welcome to view, print and/or download them to your computer. 

[size=+2]Comments On Ingredients[/size]

flour - I've used both unbleached all-purpose flour (both Gold Medal and Heckers) and bread flour (Gold Medal) with equal success. When made with unbleached all-purpose flour the dough is a little softer but the final bread has somewhat bigger holes. When made with bread flour the dough is a little firmer, the dough rises a bit higher during baking and the final dough has somewhat smaller holes (but still plenty of them). There is no taste difference. Use what's convenient - it'll work fine.
water - many people found 1-1/2 cups water (rather than 1-5/8 cups) to be sufficient. If you weigh your ingredients you can use the recipe as printed
yeast - instant or active dry yeast were both successfully used; active dry yeast is intended to be dissolved in water prior to use but most bakers simply mixed it into the dry ingredients
salt - many people increased the salt to 1-1/2 tsp (1-1/4 tsp is the amount in the recipe). Kosher salt is the standard salt in my kitchen. I used 2 tsp Kosher salt, since kosher salt grains are a little larger than table salt.

[size=+2]Comments On Dusting the Towel[/size]
Even when the towel has been heavily rubbed with flour, some bakers find that the dough partly sticks to the towel when it's dumped in the pot. When I only dusted the towel with flour, that happened to me too. When I used an ample amount of coarse corn meal (you could also use wheat bran) I had no problems. Flour tends to absorb water from the dough during the resting period; you need to use something coarse for dusting to prevent this.

A few posters on other forums suggested using rice flour instead of wheat flour to prevent sticking. (I haven't tried this.)​
[size=+3]Stay Tuned for Part II[/size]

A picture really is worth a thousand words. In Part II I'll go through the recipe instructions step by step, with photos for each step. I still have a few more photos to upload, but I'll try to post again soon.


----------



## southerncooker

Gretchen and Kitchenelf, Thanks so much for posting the link to this and Lee your loaf looks great. I love baking bread and this sounds like a fun way.


----------



## carolelaine

I used a pillow case dusted with flour and cornmeal and had no problems at all.  I am going to experiment with using some dried spices this week, we will see.  I am thinking this bread and some homemade jam and hummus will make a nice gift for some of my friends.


----------



## subfuscpersona

*OMG Make This Bread! Part II: Step By Step Instructions With Photos*

I find photos immensely helpful whenever I attempt an unfamiliar recipe. I've made No-Knead Bread five times now, so here are mine. If you haven't made this bread yet, I hope they'll encourage you to do so.

[size=+2]Mix Dough and Let It Rise[/size]





Mix dry ingredients together. Measure water and dump in bowl. In the  New York Times Video it takes ten seconds for master baker Jim Lahey to mix the ingredients with his hand. All you want to do is swiftly incorporate the water with the dry ingredients. _Photo 1_ shows the dough mixed and ready to rise. 

Cover bowl with plastic wrap and let rise from 12 to 24 hours at room temperature. "Room temperature" is the low 70sF. My rising times varied from 15 to 24 hours. When I wanted to let the rise go beyond 18 hours, I put the bowl in a cooler area - mid to high 60sF. I find rising times of 18 hours or more are better for this bread. _Photo 2_ shows the risen dough.​
[size=+2]Shape Dough plus Brief Rest [/size]





Gently scoop risen dough onto floured board. It will be wet and loose - see _Photo 3_ - and should be about 1/2" high.

Flour top of dough and fold it on itself like a business letter. Be gentle. I use my dough scraper for this. _Photo 4_ shows the shaped dough - it is about 1-1/2" high now. Lightly flour the top and cover with a towel. Let rest for 15-30 minutes.​
[size=+2]Shape Again and Final Rise[/size]





Heavily rub flour into a towel and sprinkle coarse cornmeal or wheat bran on it. Shape the dough on the board into a rough ball and place it on the towel, seam side down. A dough scraper is a great help at this step. In _Photo 5_, you can see that the towel's pattern (seen in the lower right corner) is totally masked by the flour. The shaped dough is now about 2" high. Sprinkle flour on top, cover with a towel, and let rise. 






If you chose to let the dough rise in a container, pick up the towel by the four corners and gently set it in the container, as shown in _Photos 6 and 7_. Cover the top with a towel.






It is ready to bake when the dough keeps an indentation after a gentle poke. While the recipe says the dough will "double in bulk", this is hard to gage if it is rising flat (since it tends to spread out, not up). Even in a container, I find the dough doesn't really double. The finger poke test is better. I find it takes from 2 to 2-1/2 hours rising in the low 70sF to be ready.​
[size=+2]Baking[/size]
Preheat the oven (with the pot and lid in it) to 450F. (The video says 500F, but I tried a higher heat and it burned the bread so I stick to 450F). My oven takes about 30 minutes to reach temperature. The oven must be at the required temperature when the dough is ready to bake, so plan accordingly.

Swiftly and deftly dump the risen dough in the pot, cover and return to oven to bake. Don't worry about the dough deflating when it hits the pot. This does take some practice but even if it lands in the pot a little sideways, it will bake up fine.

I find that 30 minutes with the lid on and 15-20 minutes with the lid off is just about right. (On my first attempt, I baked it 30 minutes with the lid on and 30 minutes with the lid off - not good! The bottom got scorched.)






As  _Photo 9_ shows, the finished bread shrinks from the sides of the pot considerably. Dump it on the rack to cool; it will come out easily.​
[size=+2]Yum Yum Eat 'Em Up[/size]
That "snap, crackle and pop" noise the bread makes when it first starts to cool is the crust drying out to a lovely crispness.

The loaf should cool for about 3 hours. Time is needed for the interior of the bread to dry out. Try to be patient! 











_Photos 10-11_ show a loaf made with bread flour which rose in a towel-lined basket prior to baking. _Photos 12-13_ show a loaf made with all-purpose flour which rose flat on the towel prior to baking. While its a little hard to measure the height on a dome-shaped loaf, I would say each was about 3" high.

The interior of the bread is moister than most breads made with just flour, water, salt and yeast. These kinds of breads usually stale within 48 hours but this one will stay fresh for several days. 

Don't refrigerate the bread (that makes it dry out faster). I keep mine wrapped in a cotton towel on the counter.​


----------



## subfuscpersona

*OMG Make This Bread! Part III: More Links With Photos*

I probably read (almost) every food blog that wrote about this bread. The best ones, IMHO, are those with lots of photos and a detailed explanation of the steps. If you _still_ want more information, here are links that will take you directly to the blog entry on this bread...

[size=+2]Best of the Blogs[/size]
The Fresh Loaf
AresRocket
iVillage Garden Web
flicker.com - photo essay on noknead bread by milkshakepants​
[size=+2]Blogs in German[/size]
These are for our German friends but all of us can benefit from the photos posted.

Kulinarischer Adventskalender
Chili Und Ciabatta ​
[size=+2]Dinner Rolls Using the No-knead Bread Recipe[/size]
Don't want a loaf that's round? This author figured out how to use the recipe to make dinner rolls. Has a detailed explanation (though not a lot of photos).

No-Knead Bread (dinner roll adaptation)​
[size=+2]Rose Levy Beranbaum Weighs In[/size]
Beranbaum is the author of a number of books on baking. Possibly best known are _The Pie and Pastry Bible_ and _The Bread Bible_. I've read her _The Bread Bible_ and made some of the recipes in it though, frankly, I think there are better books on bread making than hers.

IMHO, her article needlessly complicates what is a very simple recipe. However, she has her fans, so here's the link...
Rose Beranbaum on Jim Lehay's Noknead Bread​
lastly...
[size=+2]Thank You Jim Lehay![/size]
At the very end of the New York Times Video On No-Knead Bread, baker Jim Lehay of Sullivan St. Bakery says


> Make sure that everyone has access to it. That's the goal.


The goal is reached. We owe you, Jim!​


----------



## nancylee

I don't have the dutch oven (my next purchase) I have a prizer ware casserole that is 10 inches across but no lid.  Could I do this without a lid or put foil on top?


----------



## jennyema

I have since made this bread twice more with great success.

I don't use the floured towel (too messy and it stuck) -- I let rise for second time in a greased bowl.

I use my 5.5 quart LC instead of the bigger one.


----------



## subfuscpersona

nancylee said:
			
		

> I don't have the dutch oven (my next purchase) I have a prizer ware casserole that is 10 inches across but no lid.  Could I do this without a lid or put foil on top?


I did a search on "prizer ware" and it appears to be enameled cast iron. Am I right? If yes, it would be perfect.

You say it is "10 inches across" so I assuming its round (or oval?). Actually, the shape doesn't matter but *how high is the side?* Is it at least 3" (a little higher would be better)? 

Re no lid: you can try devising a domed "lid" for the casserole from aluminum foil. This is what the blogger did who posted the  No-Knead Bread (dinner roll adaptation). Check out the link but here are the key points


> use aluminum foil to make a tented lid that fits around the pan. The tenting part is important—if the foil doesn’t rise well above the pan, your rolls will stick to it as they rise. You may need to join two pieces of foil. Set the foil “lid” aside and put the pan in the oven so that it, too, preheats.



You would preheat the casserole but put the foil tent on top after you put the risen dough in it.

I would say to give it a try. If you do, please post back to this thread and tell us how it worked out.


----------



## QSis

jennyema said:
			
		

> I don't use the floured towel (too messy and it stuck) -- I let rise for second time in a greased bowl.
> 
> quote]
> 
> Well, I LOVE the idea of letting it rise the second time in a bowl instead of a towel!  Is there any downside to it?  I just did what I was told, without questioning it, but I'd much rather not mess with towels.
> 
> I do like the cornmeal all over the bread, so I'd like to keep that part of the process.
> 
> Lee


----------



## nancylee

the prizer ware worked wonderfully I got a nicely browned bread, no sticking on the towel because I used a lot of oat bran and flour.  But, I baked 450 for 30 min then 10 uncovered (I used foil), when I cut it it was moist, no airy holes, very dense.  I guess not high enough temp and not cooked enough.  I didn't have the bubbly look after 18 hours either.  Back to the drawing board.  darn.....  It looked so good too.


----------



## JMediger

nancylee said:
			
		

> ...I didn't have the bubbly look after 18 hours either...


 
I'm not a great baker but I'd venture to guess that your yeast is not good.  I'm sure someone with much more know how will be along to help you.  Good Luck!


----------



## jennyema

I agree that if it's not bubbly then there is something wrong -- perhaps with the yeast.  I always dissolve mine in warm water.

Made mine with _cheese_ this weekend.  YUMMY!

The bowl works great.  I just think the towel thing seems too complicated.  Plus the towel gets messy.


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## JMediger

Oh yum jennyema!  Did you freeze it (the cheese) before you mixed it in?  Also, when did you add it and did it affect the bake time?  That's a great idea!


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## kitchenelf

OK - it's time to go get some yeast - you guys are killin' me!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Gretchen

And in the Times today, there is an article about the many questions that have been raised here, and everywhere else. 
I'll post a link!!
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/06/dining/06mini.html?ref=dining


----------



## jennyema

JMediger said:
			
		

> Oh yum jennyema! Did you freeze it (the cheese) before you mixed it in? Also, when did you add it and did it affect the bake time? That's a great idea!


 
No I didn't freeze it.  I microplaned about 1/4 cup of manchego cheese and mixed it in when I mixed in the extra flour after the first rise.

I then topped the loaf with about 1/4 cup coarsely shredded manchego about 10 min before it was supposed to be done.

It did add cooking time but I am not entirely sure, as I had let me first rise go about 24 hours and the dough got a bit weepy, so it was wetter than usual when it went in to bake.  I am guessing the cheese may have added 5-10 min....  I always use a thermometer to test doneness @210.

*The bread was excellent!!*

I would use a bit more cheese in the dough, though the people I was experimenting for don't like it real cheesy.

I think the most important lesson of the recipe is to use more salt that called for -- especially if you are using kosher salt which has larger crystals than table salt.  IMO you will be pleasantly surprised at the heartier "bread" flavor brought out by more salt.

I am now taking _orders_ for this bread from friends and coworkers.  Seriously.


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## expatgirl

Gosh, I would hate to see this thread die, so my experiences to share---this bread was awesome.  I used my 4 quart (liters) crockpot insert with an inverted 9 inch pie plate as a cover (saw that idea on some posting to this recipe) and it was wonderful-----I did use less than a tablespoon of salt as someone had suggested and it was great-----I let my dough set for about 19 hours---we don't have fast rising yeast over here and I don't know where I read it (must have researched this recipe for hours) but I used 2 teaspoons of a Russian worded  yeast package(not 1/4  teaspoon)of the fast acting type, and it worked beautifully.  Didn't taste yeasty at all.  Anyway, bottom line is that this is a wonderful bread and  fun to make.  NOTE:  because of all of the postings of the yuck  experiences of sticky dough and towels I elected to use my Kitchen Aid silicon baking mat  to manipulate and allow it to  rise on-----Fantastic----and I used a  small cleaver to move it around (fold for the initial rising and then to push (pour) into the final baking dish  due to its stickiness--just flour it and it's a breeze.  Would NEVER put this sticky dough on a cloth  towel to rise--not worth the hassle.  I saw the horror pictures on some of the sites.  Great recipe and thanks to all who gave all their opinions and suggestions on making this an easy experience!!!!!


----------



## bethzaring

yes, subfuscpersona,  I have tried this recipe with whole wheat bread flour, using 2/3rds ww to 1/3 white.  It has worked out very well.  I have made five loaves so far.  This is my current favorite bread recipe!!


----------



## Candocook

nancylee said:
			
		

> I don't have the dutch oven (my next purchase) I have a prizer ware casserole that is 10 inches across but no lid. Could I do this without a lid or put foil on top?


 
This is a pretty incredible buy in a dutch oven. Not enamel cast iron, but still nice. I don't know if it is what you would be looking for. For enamel cast iron, you might search on Amazon for Lodge--there was one for around $60 (6qt) and Mario's line is about $99. They are nice--I've seen them. Made by Copco.
Amazon.com: Farberware Cast-Iron 5-Quart Covered Dutch Oven: Home & Garden


----------



## Barb L.

Just read this thread for the first time and am dying to try this recipe.  I have never had any luck with yeast bread before (tried twice)-  maybe this one will work out for me !  Thanks all for the tips.


----------



## Half Baked

I would love to use my pyrex because I'd like my loaf taller.  Has anyone tried this yet.  Would the oven be too hot for it?


----------



## subfuscpersona

Half Baked said:
			
		

> I would love to use my pyrex because I'd like my loaf taller.  Has anyone tried this yet.  Would the oven be too hot for it?


This food blogger, No Knead Bread - A Rustic Loaf! successfully used Pyrex. Check out the link (has photos). It says, in part,


> I bought new Pyrex and it seems to work quite well. Many though have warned that Pyrex could be dangerous and possibly shatter, so use at your own risk! I bought a 5 quart bowl and use a Pyrex pie plate as a lid - a $10.00 solution. As Pyrex ages, it becomes more likely to shatter due to the continuous heating and cooling, so if you go the Pyrex route, buy new.


I think the problem with Pyrex is you don't know if repeatedly using it on the high heat required for this bread would weaken the material. At some point you might be using the Pyrex for something else and it might shatter on you. Given the safety problems, and that you can't tell what will happen (or when), I'd personally stay away from Pyrex.

You can use any shape container, so you can go with something taller than it is wide. If you use a 4-quart capacity pot, for example, just make sure the sides are high enough to accommodate the rise (figure it will rise in the pot about 2-3 inches, depending on the size of the base of the pot).


----------



## Candocook

Half Baked said:
			
		

> I would love to use my pyrex because I'd like my loaf taller. Has anyone tried this yet. Would the oven be too hot for it?


 
I think the point of this bread is an oven within an oven--so that the bread is not actually in a pan (as making it "taller"). I'm not sure if that is what you mean by using your pyrex.  The bread is "free form" within the vessel that is being used as the "oven".


----------



## nancylee

Second time was great!  I made the bread again.  First time my yeast was bad so it didn't raise.  Well today it was a great loaf.  I used the towel method, covered with lots of oat bran and flour.  Didn't stick at all.  Baked it in my vintage prizerware cast iron.  so glad I tried again.........yumm


----------



## subfuscpersona

nancylee said:
			
		

> Second time was great!  I made the bread again.  First time my yeast was bad so it didn't raise.  Well today it was a great loaf.  I used the towel method, covered with lots of oat bran and flour.  Didn't stick at all.  Baked it in my vintage prizerware cast iron.  so glad I tried again.........yumm


hi nancylee

So glad you tried a 2nd time with such success. 

One question:  Since you didn't have a lid for your prizer ware cassarole, what did you use to cover the top?


----------



## nancylee

I used foil.  Not the best scenerio but all I had.  Some day I will find the right price, right size Le Creuset!
I also used 1/2 t. yeast but next time I will use the 1/4 as per directions.


----------



## expatgirl

Nancylee,

I don't know how big your pot is but I saw the idea of using a pie plate and it worked great as my crock pot doesn't have an oven proof lid.


----------



## Candocook

What a good idea about the pie plate.
I am making a batch today that should be interesting. It has been sitting initially for over 24 hours. And I am letting it rise in a saran lined bowl to see if I can keep it from spreading so much (I don't think this is a new idea). Anyway, will report later in the day hopefully.


----------



## expatgirl

Good luck, Candocook!!!  I didn't find the spreading out of dough to be a bad thing, however, and I've made this bread twice.


----------



## Candocook

Mine yesterday may have been the best yet. I left the first "sponge" for  a LONG time--maybe 24+ hours. I lined a smallish bowl (maybe a quart) with saran and turned my floured dough into it so it was sort of contained and really showed its rising (rather than being so free form and spread out). Turned it over into the baking pan. Beautiful bread with great texture and taste.


----------



## bethzaring

Are you all using more salt than what is called for in the recipe??


----------



## nancylee

Thanks I will try the pie plate next time.  I really used a lot of bran and flour on my cloth, put the dough on top and put that into a bowl, covered and when I turned into the pot to cook it didn't stick to the cloth at all!  Don't fear the cloth.....


----------



## GB

I just made this again for the 3rd or 4th time, but this time I made it in FL at my grandmothers house. My results were a bit differnt because of the humidity difference, but it still came out good. 

I used a stainless steel soup pot as that was all she had and that worked fine. I used table salt instead of kosher and I used about a tbsp. That turned out to be too much. At home I use kosher so the measured amount is less than the same for table salt. 

The crust did not get as crisp as at home, but is was not bad.


----------



## Candocook

expatgirl said:
			
		

> Good luck, Candocook!!! I didn't find the spreading out of dough to be a bad thing, however, and I've made this bread twice.


 
Oh, I've made it lots--and agree that the spreading is not a real problem. But I did like the way this turned out.
Yes, I am using more salt than called for--and a bit more yeast.

I think the bread needs to "temper" after baking to get some of the moisture out of the interior also. This was my best one--wonderful dipped in olive oil for an appetizer.


----------



## Barb L.

Just baked my first NY Bread-- looks kinda ugly, lopsided ! lol, guess I got to try again, haven't tasted it yet- too Hot. used rapid rise, but it wasn't real bubbly after almost 24 hrs. !  Hmmm ?  (It was dated 2008),Iam determined o make a nice loaf !


----------



## Half Baked

I love this bread, Barb...try again. It's wonderful. Maybe you'll feel the same way after tasting it.

edited to add....yeah, it's ugly (at least mine are).


----------



## Candocook

Barb L. said:
			
		

> Just baked my first NY Bread-- looks kinda ugly, lopsided ! lol, guess I got to try again, haven't tasted it yet- too Hot. used rapid rise, but it wasn't real bubbly after almost 24 hrs. ! Hmmm ? (It was dated 2008),Iam determined o make a nice loaf !


 
It doesn't need to be 'real bubbly".


----------



## Barb L.

My ugly bread was really good, DH brought home Pizza's, but all I ate was the bread, loveeeeeee bread !  (Had a doughnut too)   Hopefully the next one will be a little prettier.


----------



## Candocook

It may or may not make a "pretty" loaf. My last one I let rise in a bowl lined with saran (as I think I posted).  A large measuring cup I have--8C, rounded bottom--might be my next second rise receptacle.
The bowl (and measuring cup) lets the dough hit the cornmeal dusted pan in a "pile" and keep some of its risen height better.
I think this bread would make a killer "French bread pizza" base!
I also think it needs to cool and get some of the moisture out of the middle to be at its best.
Making more today!! It requires so little, why not!!


----------



## goodgiver

*Artisian Bread Recipe*

Oh my gosh just got finished baking the bread recipe that was is the New York Times. It finally cooled and I got to eat a big slice. That was the first bread I ever successfully baked, and I am 68 years old. Yeast and bread always acared me. BUT NO MORE, and OMG was it ever good.It was so crispy on the outside and so soft and chewy on the inside. That is the kind of bread I enjoy with a big bowl of soup, or a big salad or a big bowl of stew. I feel like an accomplished baker now. Will certainly be baking more for gifts etc. Thanks ever so much.


----------



## angelbear9114

in the middle of my 18 hr. rise now. very excited!


----------



## Candocook

I think it would make  a great muffuletta sandwich. The shape is so right for it also.


----------



## expatgirl

I agree, Candocook, that it would make a great muffuletta sandwich (which I haven't had in over 20 years) as well as a pizza base.  I guess we are going to have to experiment!


----------



## Half Baked

Each time I make it, I try to make it even easier:

1) After the 18 hr rising period, I don't turn it out onto anything. The towel process is horrible and if I had to do that, I wouldn't bother with the bread. 
2) Now I just sprinkle the dough (in the same bowl) with a little flour and use a spatula to fold it over a few times.
3) I let it rise for the 2 hrs in that bowl. 
4) Sometimes, before I put the bread into the hot pot, I sprinkle the bottom with some cornmeal but I really don't notice it enough to bother with this step anymore.

I LOVE this bread and Mr HB laughs and calls his office The Bakery. When we start getting low on bread  , I just stir up another batch and his office is the warmest room in the house.


----------



## GB

Half Baked, I hate the towel process too so I have cut it out as well. I take a place and put flour and cornmeal on it and turn the bread out onto that after the first rise. I cover it with plastic wrap. When it comes time bake then it is very easy to just pick up the plate and dump the dough into the pot. 

I made this again for Xmas dinner and it came out great as usual. I have settled on an oven temp of 500 degrees and baking for 30 minutes. I do not need to uncover and cook to brown after that as it is already perfect at that point.


----------



## Candocook

Don't know if you saw my suggestion, GB, but a small bowl works really well too--lined with saran. Makes a slightly taller loaf for me.


----------



## GB

Yep I did see that one, thanks candocook. I will have to give that a try one of these days.


----------



## Half Baked

Candocook said:
			
		

> Don't know if you saw my suggestion, GB, but a small bowl works really well too--lined with saran. Makes a slightly taller loaf for me.


 
Cando - let me see if I have this right. In the 2 hr rise step, the small bowl makes the loaf taller? (I've only had one cup of coffee .)


----------



## Barb L.

Candocook said:
			
		

> Don't know if you saw my suggestion, GB, but a small bowl works really well too--lined with saran. Makes a slightly taller loaf for me.


  Thanks for all the tips - I used 1/2 tsp. yeast,but I usually let my rest for 24 hrs. (cause I start it in the morning, usually) and my second rise in a smaller w/ deep sides, didn't use plastic wrap -just dusted the bottom w/cornmeal -top too -then sprayed plastic wrap and placed on top-then towel !   Hubby and I really like it a lot !


----------



## Candocook

Half Baked said:
			
		

> Cando - let me see if I have this right. In the 2 hr rise step, the small bowl makes the loaf taller? (I've only had one cup of coffee .)


 
Instead of letting the final rise--2-3 hours or whatever--do it on the towel, as some have said they don't like, I have been putting it in a smallish bowl--maybe about 6" in diameter.  Because of its shape and the bowl sides, the bread doesn't flatten out as it does on the towel. So when it is dumped into the baking bowl, it is a bit "taller" a blob of dough than it is if left to rise on a flat surface.  It has more shape, if that makes sense.


----------



## angelbear9114

I made the bread over the weekend and OH MY GOD it is delicoius!!! Everyone who has tried it either wants the recipe or wants me to make it for them...I have never had bread this delicious...

The bottom did burn a little and I did not go the extra 15 minutes to half hour to brown (it was already browned) but WOW! Thanks for the fantastic recipe!


----------



## angelbear9114

Also...since I am a little lazy about laundry I didn't want to mess up my towels so I did my final rise on cheesecloth...Worked beautifully. Just another thought.


----------



## Essiebunny

Do I use something to grease the pan that I bake in?
I want to start this today, so please help.


----------



## Half Baked

No grease is necessary. Have fun!

Thanks for the explanation, Cando.  I read back over all the posts and wasn't it your idea to put it in an 8 cup measuring cup?  That sounds like a great idea.


----------



## Candocook

Essiebunny said:
			
		

> Do I use something to grease the pan that I bake in?
> I want to start this today, so please help.


 
No grease is necessary but put some cornmeal on the bottom of the pan.


----------



## Aria

I use the inside ceramic from my Crock Pot.  And I just flop the dough in.
No grease...no cornmeal.  It does NOT stick.  Comes out easily.


----------



## Essiebunny

I just removed the bread from the oven. 
It is so beautiful!!!!
The final test is taste which I will do as soon as it cools some.


----------



## Half Baked

OK, Essie, how did you like it?    Isn't it the best homemade bread you've ever made?


----------



## GB

Yes I am curious as well Essie. Let us know if you were in bread heaven.

I have another one rising right now and will cook it when I get home from work. this time I added some cheddar cheese.


----------



## Essiebunny

This bread is wonderful!!!!!
We ate most of it with olive oil and parmesan. Who needed the pasta!
I told my son about the recipe, but he wants a demonstration before he tries it. He said it sounds much too easy.
Tomorrow, I will finish this loaf as toast and another batch will be in progress .


----------



## Half Baked

I toast it as garlic bread for Italian food and many other dinner dinners.  My last idea was to broil slices with cheese on top and eat with tomato soup.   mmmmm

I can't imagine this bread ever leaving my Top 10 recipe list.  

I'm going to go start a new loaf right now.


----------



## GB

The one I made last night with cheddar was by far the best one I have made. I used about a cup of shredded sharp cheese. I mixed it in when I combined the flour, yeast, and everything else. I could eat 4 loaves of this all by myself.


----------



## Half Baked

Glad I saw this before I headed down, GB.  I'll put a cup of cheese in mine this time.

Thanks!


----------



## GB

You won't be sorry


----------



## GB

OK I have a question, and I am a little surprised no one has asked it already.

Can the recipe be doubled to make a larger loaf?


----------



## subfuscpersona

GB said:
			
		

> OK I have a question, and I am a little surprised no one has asked it already. Can the recipe be doubled to make a larger loaf?


I've doubled the recipe (the easy part) but I baked 2 loaves, each in its own 5-quart cast iron dutch oven. My poor oven shelf complained a bit about the weight, but the breads came out fine. This would seem an easier solution than guessing about baking times, which would probably have to be longer for a bigger loaf (but not 2x longer).


----------



## Candocook

GB, what would you cook it in if you doubled it?  I have a cloche that is probably 10" in diameter and my one loaf always fills that diameter. Is your loaf smaller and higher? I'd like to get to that also.


----------



## Barb L.

Candocook said:
			
		

> GB, what would you cook it in if you doubled it?  I have a cloche that is probably 10" in diameter and my one loaf always fills that diameter. Is your loaf smaller and higher? I'd like to get to that also.


  I think I would just make two loaves, I only have one pot , so I would plop the other one in when the first one was done !  Our one loaf doesn't last long around here !!


----------



## GB

I have been using my 7+ quart LC dutch oven. Right now with one loaf it sits on the bottom and does not touch the sides. The bread does not rise a ton, but that is fine with me. I am thinking with if I double it then it will climb the sides some and come out a bit taller.


----------



## Barb L.

I have one rising its first rise now, wanted to add cheese --- forgot !  Could I sprinkle it in during the second rise when folding over?  Might try it anyway !


----------



## GB

I believe Jennyema did it that way Barb and she was successful. Go for it!


----------



## subfuscpersona

*Baking time adjustments for double recipe in 7-8 qt pot?*



			
				GB said:
			
		

> I have been using my 7+ quart LC dutch oven. Right now with one loaf it sits on the bottom and does not touch the sides. The bread does not rise a ton, but that is fine with me. I am thinking with if I double it then it will climb the sides some and come out a bit taller.


hi GB

well, ppl here and elsewhere have reported success using smaller pots - down to 4 qt capacity but with higher sides - precisely to get that higher loaf (even Bittman says this)  Your 7+ quart LC dutch oven could probably take a double recipe. (Maybe you could try using a little less than twice the recipe - you don't have to use all the dough even if you double the recipe)

I'm finding with my 5qt CI dutch oven, the bread pretty much fills the pot to the top when I take the lid off after the first 30 min of baking. I also find that the bread bakes up higher when I use a somewhat domed CI lid, rather than the flatter Lodge CI lid (even this small, additional "room at the top" makes a difference). The dough has so much water, it needs not only room to expand, but extra room at the top to trap the steam during the entire lid-on baking stage, to create the appropriate environment for a good rise. I also find the loaf shrinks back a little during the last 15-20 min baking with the lid off, as it continues to emit steam. 

If you double the recipe, you need a longer baking time. I would guess about 40-45 min with lid on (rather than the 30 min the recipe calls for) and maybe 25 min with lid off, though the lid-off stage would be easier to monitor. It would be the lid-on stage that would be trickier in terms on timing. And it would need a longer cooling time, since the loaf continues to bake from stored heat and give off additional water vapor as it cools.

What do other ppl think would be appropriate baking times if the recipe is doubled and baked in a 7-8 qt  LC dutch oven? Anyone tried something like this?


----------



## Barb L.

GB said:
			
		

> I believe Jennyema did it that way Barb and she was successful. Go for it!


  Thanks, I will do that ! and I will let you know -lol,  if I remember !


----------



## Candocook

GB said:
			
		

> I have been using my 7+ quart LC dutch oven. Right now with one loaf it sits on the bottom and does not touch the sides. The bread does not rise a ton, but that is fine with me. I am thinking with if I double it then it will climb the sides some and come out a bit taller.


 
I don't think it will, but would be interested to see.
I have often baked "french" bread in a souffle dish to get that shape.
I am not really sure this bread will "climb" but if you do it in a narrower pan it might stay in that shape.  I just don't think there is much "oven spring" to this recipe.
I have doubled and just baked twice, letting one batch stay in the second rising longer.  I do kind of like my mixing bowl/big measuring cup for rising the second time.


----------



## Essiebunny

Now I will be forced to make another loaf using cheddar cheese. 
I can taste it already.


----------



## Half Baked

My cheddar cheese has been rising for 14 hrs and is HUGE.  I've never had the dough absolutely fill my designated NY Times bread bowl.  It may be on the floor by morning.


----------



## Barb L.

Half Baked said:
			
		

> My cheddar cheese has been rising for 14 hrs and is HUGE.  I've never had the dough absolutely fill my designated NY Times bread bowl.  It may be on the floor by morning.


----------



## GB

MMMMM floor bread


----------



## Half Baked

Actually, I let it rise so long that it fell by half.  I'll see how this turns out.  

Last night I thought it was going to look like the Lucy show when her bread just kept coming and coming out of the oven.


----------



## Barb L.

For some reason my bread was really sticky when I took it out to due the last rise.  Wasn't like this the other two times I made it.  Hope I can get it to plop out of this bowl (have a little cormeal on the bottom and top).    Clueless -


----------



## Essiebunny

My cheese loaf is in its tenth hour and looks great!
I'm taking this one to a neighbor tonight. I'm bringing recipes because I know people will want them.


----------



## GB

I have a cheese loaf and a reg loaf both in the second rise right now. Both look excellent. I relaxed on the timing on these a bit. Usually I got for around 18 hours, but these two are closer to 24. They rose in a warmer environment that usual too as we had the wood stove going so it was nice and toasty in the house.

These will both be brought to our friends house tonight. We are having cheese fondue so the reg bread will go great with that. The other bread we might use for dipping in oil or something else.


----------



## Candocook

On another board a poster reports that her husband is increasing the flour by abut 50% and getting a more well formed boule. Just an FYI.

IMPORTANT EDIT. I went back and it turns out he is increasing EVERYthing by about 50% to get the larger boule. Sorry for any confusion.


----------



## Barb L.

Candocook said:
			
		

> On another board a poster reports that her husband is increasing the flour by abut 50% and getting a more well formed boule. Just an FYI.


 Intresting, gonna try it Mikey ?  Let us know if you do !


----------



## Half Baked

The cheese bread is magnificent.  Thanks for tossing that idea out, GB.

I was concerned about my bread falling during the rise (mine was about 24hrs) but it rose up fine during the 2 hr rise.

Cando - I think I'll try more flour next time for kicks.


----------



## Essiebunny

My cheese bread didn't rise well the second time. I don't know what I did wrong. It does taste delicious, even if it's not as good to look at.


----------



## bethzaring

I added a generous 1/2 cup of parmesan cheese to my dough yesterday.  I did not have any cheddar in the house.  I am about to awaken it from its long first rise.  I also will try something a tiny bit different.  I use an old cast iron dutch oven with a CI lid, but the lid does not go with the bottom and does not fit tightly.  I will add a piece of heavy foil under the lid to create more of a tight seal, to see if that makes any difference in rising during baking.


----------



## Candocook

bethzaring said:
			
		

> I added a generous 1/2 cup of parmesan cheese to my dough yesterday. I did not have any cheddar in the house. I am about to awaken it from its long first rise. I also will try something a tiny bit different. I use an old cast iron dutch oven with a CI lid, but the lid does not go with the bottom and does not fit tightly. I will add a piece of heavy foil under the lid to create more of a tight seal, to see if that makes any difference in rising during baking.


 
On another board someone uses another CI pan for the lid to their "bottom" one.


----------



## Aria

I have baked breads for many years.  This is the BEST.  Gretchen I agree..it is very very simple.  I have made it with Bread Flour using the exact measurements NYT recipe....perfect every time.   

Today I made it with 2 cups of Bread Flour and 1 cup of whole wheat flour.
A slight difference in texture (not as holey).  A bit darker.  And a slight difference in taste.

I prefer the all white flour shape,texture,taste.  I am now using the ceramic pot from my Crock Pot.   I have a cast iron antique pot with cover my husband is going to sandblast for me...and H Wooldridge DC gave me some great tips on how to.

I also purchased an Emile Henry Poterie Culinaire ceramic pot with cover made in France.  I am going to try this pot.  All these pots have different shapes...want to make a selection of the shape I prefer for slicing.

GB amd Andy gave me an ok on the Emile Henry pot being ok for 450 degree oven.  This is a wonderful,easy, BREAD recipe.  Thanks Gretchen and all.


----------



## cjs

17 pages - well, didn't read them all, but great thread. My second batch of the bread is doing it's 18 hour step right now, will be ready to go about noon (six more hours....) 

We ate the first loaf so fast, it didn't last a day! (and there are only two of us) Love the texture, flavor, just everything about it. Happy to use my cast iron dutch oven again - haven't used it for a  while.


----------



## Aria

It is not difficult to eat the loaf in one day and yes with two of you.  It is delicious and it is a SMALL loaf.

Yesterday I made mine in the newly seasoned Cast Iron Dutch Pot..H Wooldrige helped us with seasoning directions following sandblasting.
The loaf was wider and not as high.  I think I will keep experimenting.

Making my Bread with my food processor makes a much larger loaf.  Both methods are wonderful.  Both easy.  Different methods...make a different type of Bread.  NYT a smaller holey loaf.  Food processor more old fashioned homemade bread .  Try both...it's fun.


----------



## kitchenelf

Well, mine didn't turn out at all.  It was very chewy and didn't rise like I thought it should have - and yes, the yeast is fresh.  Any suggestions?



			
				Half Baked said:
			
		

> I sure don't have any seams though.  Mine is like the blob.  Hope I didn't do anything wrong.



No seam for me either Half Baked - it was a gloppy mess!


----------



## agirl

Saw the pics of the bread and it looks just great. Hubby likes a crunchy crust and soft middle, so will try it. Looks like perfect bread for wintery supper of hearty soup and crusty bread.


----------



## Aria

Here are some suggestions kitchenelf:  size of your pot?  My cast iron pot is 
10 inches and my ceramic pot is 7 inches (diameter).  The smaller diameter
the BREAD comes higher.

Ok you have the fresh yeast

Lukewarm water

Put all the dry ingredients in a large bowl.  Stir (I use a wooden flat..to stir)

Stir dry...the add water all at once and stir.  The water measurement is very important.  1-1/2 cup and 2 tablespoons (1-5/8 cup). Stir and it will come together leaving the sides of the bowl. (NOT TOO MOIST).  Cover with plastic.      I place my bowl in my oven.  Do you know the rice bags?  Place the rice bag in the micro heat...place on the bottom shelf of your oven.  This creates moist heat. (yeast mixtures love this).   Then follow the directions.
If you need more help....just ask.


----------



## kitchenelf

Thanks Aria - I can only imagine there was too much water - my son measured the water and I didn't pay attention - that HAD to be it because it was a MESS!  

I'll try a smaller pot the next time though the pot I used wasn't anymore than roughly 10" or so but it was very deep.  I think it will fit in my 5-qt. hard anodized pot just fine.


----------



## GB

The video interview I saw with the guy that created this recipe actually only used a cup and a half. If 1 5/8ths still seems like too much then you may even want to try less.


----------



## kitchenelf

GB said:
			
		

> The video interview I saw with the guy that created this recipe actually only used a cup and a half. If 1 5/8ths still seems like too much then you may even want to try less.



I am going to make a note of that right now - thanks GB.


----------



## Aria

kitchenelf, try the smaller pot.  And measure the water exact.  And when you add the water ....stir...and make sure it forms.  You may need to sprinkle a little more flour...until it leaves the sides of the bowl. .and take a slight shape.   Not loose,runny.  You should be able to ALMOST form a ball.  I am trying to give you directions to help you get the correct moisture content.


----------



## kitchenelf

Aria said:
			
		

> kitchenelf, try the smaller pot.  And measure the water exact.  And when you add the water ....stir...and make sure it forms.  You may need to sprinkle a little more flour...until it leaves the sides of the bowl. .and take a slight shape.   Not loose,runny.  You should be able to ALMOST form a ball.  I am trying to give you directions to help you get the correct moisture content.



I can assure you I appreciate it VERY much!  I had a feeling that gloppy mess wasn't exactly right!  It sure was good when it was hot!  I will report back when I cook it the next time.  THANK YOU for your help.


----------



## GB

Kitchenelf, watch THIS video. It is a video With Mark Bittman interviewing Jim Lahey (the man who created this bread). They discuss the recipe and actually make a bread so you can see every step and see what it should look like.


----------



## cjs

Well, I just watched the video and the version I made is just slightly different - 

3 c a.p. flour
2 1/2 tsp. kosher salt
1/4 tsp. active dry yeast
1 1/2 c warm (not hot) water

The technique was the same - except did I miss the 2 hour rest after the 18 hours and folding it? (the darn phone rang...) = the one I made called for that 2 hour rest and then all was the same.

I've made two loaves now - the first one didn't rise much, but the second one did raise somewhat more. Same yeast (well out of the same jar) and same dutch oven. Must be the goodies in the air?? and the humidity?? 

Both tasted just wonderful! I'm so hooked on this method.


----------



## Candocook

I have further evidence that this recipe CANNOT be messed up!! ;o) We were at the beach (away from my kitchen supplies/equipment!) and I made the bread for our friends to whom I had sent the recipe.
Made the sponge--fine. For baking the only thing I could piece together was a cast iron frying pan (and not terribly well seasoned) and a deep (4" sides) round cake pan that woud fit down inside the diameter of the frying pan.
It worked PERFECTLY!! Delicious bread, beautiful crust and interior texture!

Made some at home yesterday. I let the first rise go for 24 hours--afternoon to afternoon. I added the little bit of extra flour and put it in my large 8 cup measuring cup (it is about 6" across and 6" deep) with a saran wrap liner. I forgot to bake it until too late at night so let it go until the next morning. By that time it had risen to the top of the cup/bowl.
Baked--absolutely BEAutiful!! And delicious. It might have been just a bit better if I had slashed the top with a razor the way many artisanal loaves are done. 

I had just a "nubbin" of foie gras in the freezer. I toasted some of this bread, seared the foie gras and served it with a blueberry gastrique I had made for it. Nirvana!!! And just for good measure, dipped some of the bread in the rendered duck fat!!

On another board it is being "reported" that folks are making a larger loaf by just increasing the amounts of ingredients a bit.  Just an FYI.


----------



## bethzaring

Candocook said:
			
		

> On another board someone uses another CI pan for the lid to their "bottom" one.


 
Thanks for passing along this idea, but that will not work in my case.  My bottom has a bail handle that interferes with the lid, and would not allow anything with any height to be placed on top of the pan.  But I am thinking about your latest post.  I have a 3 inch deep cast iron pan that I will look to see if I can find something to act as a lid, maybe another CI pan would work here??  Thanks again!!


----------



## Aria

bethzaring,  Do you have a crock pot?  I use the ceramic insert and the glass cover to my crock pot.  Makes a wonderful loaf.


----------



## Essiebunny

Aria,
Do you bake it in the crockpot? Is the lid oven safe?
Also, what size crockpot?


----------



## Aria

Essiebunny,  This is the insert of my crock pot....it is ceramic and it has a pryex/glass cover.  It is about 6 inches across.  I tried to post the bread on the forum and am having a problem.  kitchenelf is trying to help me post.
I was able to send the photos e mail but I just can't post. More questions?


----------



## Aria

Essiebunny,  This is my crock pot insert.  It is ceramic and the lid is pryex/glass.  The ceramic insert is about 6 inches in diameter.  Makes a perfect size loaf.  And I bake at 450 oven.


----------



## Aria

Sorry.  I did not see the first post. Good Luck.


----------



## bethzaring

Aria said:
			
		

> bethzaring, Do you have a crock pot? I use the ceramic insert and the glass cover to my crock pot. Makes a wonderful loaf.


 

Yes I do, thanks for asking!  That is what I love about this forum, the answers can be right under my nose but it takes some kind person a thousand miles away to point it out to me! .  I really have been mulling this over for two months, trying to come up with another setup besides my dutch oven, to bake this bread.  My crock pot does have a ceramic insert but the lid has plastic.  But I have another glass and metal lid that will fit the insert. I'm off...............


----------



## Candocook

_My crock pot does have a ceramic insert but the lid has plastic. But I have another glass and metal lid that will fit the insert. I'm off..............._

You can cover with foil--or even a cookie sheet.

The other thing you could do with the crockpot is to use it as the TOP although if you have another top, it probably isn't needed. HOwever, here is an idea.

For the preheating, put a cookie sheet in the oven and invert the crockpot insert on it. Heat. Then when ready to bake the bread, put the dough on the cookie sheet and cover with the crockpot. IF you happen to have a cast iron griddle (the kind that covers two burners for example--or other griddle pan) this would be even better as the bottom.

I dont know if you read my post about using a real gerry rigged baker for this on our beach trip. A cast iron frying pan using a very lightweight tallish springform pan as the top. If it will bake as beautifully as it did in THIS it can be done in ANYthing!! ;o)


----------



## bethzaring

Candocook said:
			
		

> You can cover with foil--or even a cookie sheet.
> 
> The other thing you could do with the crockpot is to use it as the TOP although if you have another top, it probably isn't needed. HOwever, here is an idea.
> 
> For the preheating, put a cookie sheet in the oven and invert the crockpot insert on it. Heat. Then when ready to bake the bread, put the dough on the cookie sheet and cover with the crockpot. IF you happen to have a cast iron griddle (the kind that covers two burners for example--or other griddle pan) this would be even better as the bottom.
> 
> I dont know if you read my post about using a real gerry rigged baker for this on our beach trip. A cast iron frying pan using a very lightweight tallish springform pan as the top. If it will bake as beautifully as it did in THIS it can be done in ANYthing!! ;o)


 
I have gone back and re-read the posts.  I like the idea of using a cookie sheet for the lid on the crockpot insert.  One problem I have been having with my dutch oven is how heavy it is, and my crockpot insert is also heavy. I am afraid I will drop the whole unit! I think I will try using the insert upright with a lid on top.  Thanks for your suggestions!


----------



## Aria

bethzaring,  Use the crockpot ceramic insert.   And the glass top you have.
Just be sure you have an area (that will take high heat) ready.  When you remove the hot ceramic insert....it will be extremely hot.  Take two pot holders and have the area ready to set the insert.

Just TAKE YOUR TIME.  The bread will wait.    Then pick up the dough(seam side up) and "plop into the ceramic insert".  Don't worry about the shape.
Once it is in the insert place the cover on and carefully place in the oven.

The dutch ovens are heavy and it takes practice and strength to use successfully.   I tried.   The ceramic insert works best for me.  Questions? And let us know your "homemade bread" adventure.  It is fun.


----------



## kitchenelf

Candocook said:
			
		

> I have further evidence that this recipe CANNOT be messed up!! ;o)



You don't want to bet me on that do you?  I should have sent pictures


----------



## flukx

I have been away for awhile and did not have time to read all of the posts regarding this recipe, but I did give the recipe a try and was definitely surprised at the results. I tried 2 different methods; the actual recipe and then a sourdough version. Both worked quite well, but I would definitely recommend to those that have a nice sourdough starter going to modify the recipe. I let my nice Berliner starter sit for about 4 days to get a nice and sour, natural flavor develop and then went from their with the recipe. Absolutely fantastic. However, the real revelation, I think, was baking inside the (in my case) pyrex container with the lid on. I have tried everything to get a nice crisp crust on the outside in addition to a chewy inside, but always seemed to come a bit short. With the lid on for the first 20 minutes or so, the moisture is trapped in the container and forces the moisture to condense on the outside, thus creating the nice crust, emulating the nice steam mechanism that bakeries have.


----------



## Aria

kitchenelf,  I am so sorry you are not being successful with the BREAD.  Why don't you write what you ARE doing and I want to help you succeed.  It could be just a simple thing.  Want to?   Where are you having the problem?
Once you master it (and I guess you are doing something different) you will bake it often.  Let's try.?  I have been teaching (Advertising) for many years...and I have been a successful baker.


----------



## kitchenelf

I'll start another batch.  I really think the last time I used too much water (I say I, but my son measured it and I dumped it in and it's fault and I'm sticking to that!  ) - it was icky sticky gloppy.  Even after the first rise when I added more flour to "fold" it a couple times it was still sticky and gloppy.  Seam?  There was NO seam to be had at all!  Hence I think it started with too much water.

So, I'll read your response before I begin.

The first bites when it was hot were fine.  Once it cooled it was a bit stretchy/tough if that makes sense).


----------



## Candocook

kitchenelf said:
			
		

> I'll start another batch. I really think the last time I used too much water (I say I, but my son measured it and I dumped it in and it's fault and I'm sticking to that!  ) - it was icky sticky gloppy. Even after the first rise *when I added more flour to "fold" it a couple times it was still sticky and gloppy. Seam? There was NO seam to be had at all! Hence I think it started with too much water.*
> 
> 
> The first bites when it was hot were fine. Once it cooled it was a bit stretchy/tough if that makes sense).


 
ADD even MORE flour. It doesn't have to be gloppy. It shouldn't be gloppy.


----------



## kitchenelf

You must remember - I don't bake for a reason.  

When it is FIRST made should it pull away from the sides after mixed?

Edited to say I think I know the answer to that - NO - that almost makes sense to even me.


----------



## Katie H

Buck and I just finished viewing our videotape of Martha Stewart's Thursday program where she and Jim Lahey of Sullivan Street Bakery made "the" bread.

It was interesting and a good tutorial.  I'd been pondering what to use to bake the bread, but now am sure my nice, deep cast-iron skillet with foil on top will work just fine.

Hip, hip, hooray.  We're going to enjoy some yummy new bread soon!


----------



## Aria

kitchenelf, use 3 cups of flour. Measure flour: place your measuring cup into the flour and go across the measuring cup with a knife. Your cup is full.

2. place the correctly measured flour in a large bowl

3. add the salt and the yeast (1/4 teaspoon yeast 1-1/4 teaspoons salt) 
with your hands or a wooden spoon STIR
4. Measure 1-1/2 cups water (warm)....NOT TOO HOT(make a well in the dry 
ingredients) and pour all the warm water..into the dry ingredients.
5. Use the wooden spoon(I have a wooden spatula) and stir the complete 
mixture. It should leave the sides of your bowl. NOT TO DRY...as you stir
it should start to form a ball. It is not necessary to KNEAD...but the
dough should be easy to handle (NOT STICK to bowl or hands). The Bowl
is practically CLEAN. No dough stuck to the bowl. .perhaps a tiny bit. This is important.

In this ALMOST clean bowl place the dough (it is a ball) in this bowl and cover TIGHTLY with plastic wrap. The wrap will seal. Cling to the bowl.

Place in a warm area. I place mine in my oven. Away from drafts etc. Let it stay in the oven for 12- 18 hours. 

Remove the dough from the bowl. It should be easy to handle. Place on a lightly floured surface and do the fold overs. You pat lightly with your hands and left and right sides and lower and upper sides. and place seam side down
on a lightly floured towel and let it rest (covered with floured other end of the same towel)....Covered let it rest for 2 hours.

1/2 Hour before ready to bake place your baking pot with cover on in 450 oven.

Carefully remove your pot to a surface (I use my stove burner) that will take HOT objects. Pick up the dough (the seam side is DOWN) when you pick up the dough....lift and place in the hot pot with the seam side UP. a slight turn . Cover and place the pot in the HOT oven. I cook for 30 minutes. I use the ceramic insert from my crock pot and the glass cover. My bread has a golden surface and hard crust and it is done. Remove the complete pot. Then the cover.
Then the Bread. Place the Bread on a rack to cool. 


5.


----------



## kitchenelf

Thanks Candocook and Aria - I am assuming there was waaaaaaaay too much water when I first tried this.  I will also maybe use a smaller pot.  I will have to do this tomorrow as I am out of time tonight.  I guess I can just use my 5-quart sauce pot with its cover.  

If I decide to double this recipe and make one larger loaf should I just use a larger pan and increase the cooking time?  

Aria - I appreciate the detailed explanation and will follow instructions.  I will have my trusty camera out the whole time too!


----------



## Candocook

You're not going to be able to double it--or at least I couldn't--and I am baking mine in a clay cloche made for baking bread. You can increase it a small amount.
I have posted the same thing on other boards--don't make this hard--no foolin'.  
I use a tupperware container for the first sponge.
I let the second rise happen in a saran wrapped bowl--it gets a bit higher, hence a larger loaf.

Rather than foil for the top, try a cookie sheet--quicker to get arranged in the oven.


----------



## kitchenelf

I've got a top for my sauce pan - I SWEAR I'm not trying to make this hard - it just comes naturally for me  when it comes to baking.  I will not double or even increase slightly - will do exactly.  Thanks.


----------



## Aria

Please do not change the recipe.  The loaf is small.   But once you master the process...you can make it often.  DO NOT DOUBLE recipe.  

1.  measure correctly

2.  follow the directions given in detail

3.  find the correct pot.  Ceramic with a glass cover ...or?

     Looking forward to photos.     After you have mastered the BREAD...then you can try different things.  Make it easy...make it fun.


----------



## Katie H

Made "the" bread this weekend.  Awesome!  Buck and I are trying to think of new ways to eat it.  Had some toasted for breakfast this morning.  Yummy.

I used my deep cast-iron skillet as the bottom of the baking vessel and my cast-iron grill pan as the lid.  Fit just right.  Just great for the bread.  I would've used one of my Le Creuset pieces, but they're all too big and Le Creuset doesn't recommend the lid knobs at 450 degrees.  Of course, I could always remove the knob.

The dough rose perfectly during it's multi-hour stage and did well for the second rise.  Beautiful dough.  I could see it forming the bubbles, which would become the airy pockets in the finished product.  That was like the carrot in front of the donkey.

While it was baking, I could've almost eaten the door off the oven the smell was so tantalizing.  The finished bread was as lovely as any we've gotten from the bakery.

It's so easy, there's no doubt we'll make it again...soon.

Those of you DCers who haven't tried it, should get crackin'.  You don't know what you're missing.


----------



## Aria

*The loaf I made*

I have been trying to post this photo.  Thanks to MJ I was able to post.


----------



## kitchenelf

...........................  He da man!


----------



## Katie H

Aria, what did you bake your bread in?  I like the shape.  Because I used my cast-iron skillet, my bread was round, but I like the shape of yours, too.


----------



## bethzaring

*my best loaf yet*

Here is a photo of my latest try at this incredible bread. It handled a bit different from my other trys. I do not mess with the ratio of ingredients, except to use 2/3rds whole wheat flour, but I could tell when I scraped it out of the bowl after the inital rise that something was different. I let the first rise go 24 hours, in a coolish kitchen, 67 degrees F. The sponge had more shape/body than before. And when I folded it over once for the 15 minute rest, it stood higher than before. I did use a ceramic insert for the first time and it worked very well. I will not use the cast iron configeration again, too heavy, unwieldy and the top did not fit well. When I went to fetch the crock pot insert I found my back up crock pot that I only use for parties and was happy to find that its lid was all glass. So I used that insert even though it is smaller than the insert I intended to use. One happy camper here.


----------



## Aria

Katie E,  How did you do that?  Posting?  MJ helped me with the photo.  My computer "zips-out" during the upload.  Long story.  I know about the click paste, Image Shack posting....but there is a problem posting photos for me.

I used a ceramic insert in my crock pot about 6 inches in diameter with a glass top.     bethzaring, I also tried the cast iron pot.  Too heavy and I did not like the shape.   I also did the 2 cups white and 1 cup whole wheat.  I prefer the whole wheat for health but not the taste.  I prefer the taste of the unbleached white flour.  I am waiting to view kitchenelf's loaf.  I posted 
detailed steps for this bread.  I have a "bizillion" bread recipes....but this is the easiest and can make homemade bread and still attend to my job at the Advertising Agency and teach at our local College.   Isn't it fun?  Yes?


----------



## Katie H

Aria said:
			
		

> Katie E,  How did you do that?  Posting?  MJ helped me with the photo.  My computer "zips-out" during the upload.  Long story.  I know about the click paste, Image Shack posting....but there is a problem posting photos for me.



How'd I do what?  Post your picture?  If that's what you mean, all I did was hit the "quote" button at the bottom right of your post when I wanted to post a reply to this thread.  The picture in your post came up when I did that.

And, yes, it's great fun having this kind of delicious bread and do other things, too.  Hooray!!


----------



## Candocook

That is a great shape. Thanks for the idea.
My breads are more 'holey" usually.  Just an FYI.
I know a lot of others on a lot of boards are/have used WW flour (a cup), but this style of bread just seems to scream "white" to me, at least.  I don't really every buy artisanal WW breads or baguettes.
I also think that this bread is quite good the next day (probably because it is so moist) which is unlike the usual artisanal/baguette bread.


----------



## Aria

bethzaring,  Neat photo.  Color, lights, pot placements.  SUPER.   I would like
my slice....toasted and lightly buttered.  

Notice you have ahia in your avatar. I not a Geography Major....but is there REALLY such a place?


----------



## Aria

Candocook,  I prefer the crock pot insert.  One it is not as heavy   Two great shape.   I store the bread on my counter on a bread board wrapped in a towel for first day.   

Later I put it in a plastic bag which I leave open.  The bread stores well.  If you preffer the hard crust....do not put in plastic. We usually toast our bread and storing in plastic bag works for us.  And you can cut a thin slice.


----------



## bethzaring

Aria said:
			
		

> Notice you have ahia in your avatar. I not a Geography Major....but is there REALLY such a place?


 
This is how the locals pronounce Ohio...uh-hi-uh


----------



## Aria

The professor learned to things today:   1. from Katie E..Quote (always wondered) thanks.

2.  from bethzaring:  ahia is really Ohio

Thanks


----------



## lyndalou

I am in the process of trying to make this bread. I have no confidence that it'll turn out. I made the dough yesterday and it sat in my kitchen for 20 hours. I ended up with very wet dough that is now (after much sticking) in some sort of shape sitting on a towel for a couple of hours, so it will double in bulk. I have my doubts.

I used fFeischmann's yeast and  all purpose flour  plus the salt and water in the amounts called for. 

Any suggestions? Has anyone else experienced these problems? What a mess.


----------



## bethzaring

continue on my friend.  I hope you have plenty of flour on the towel.  It will be difficult to tell if it doubles in bulk.  Your ingredients sound good.  Yes, it can seem like a mess.  Next time, make sure there is plenty of flour on the table when you first turn out the dough for the turn and 15 minute rest and there is lotsa flour on the towel for the 2 to 3 hour final rest.  Look at this thread from the beginning, someone posted their personal pictures and tips, they are excellent.  I printed them out and use them for my guide lines.


----------



## lyndalou

Thanks for the encouraging words. I really hope it turns out o.k. I read more of the previous posts, as you suggested, and I have some small hope that I  maypull this off. I'll let you know.


----------



## Candocook

lyndalou said:
			
		

> I am in the process of trying to make this bread. I have no confidence that it'll turn out. I made the dough yesterday and it sat in my kitchen for 20 hours. I ended up with very wet dough that is now (after much sticking) in some sort of shape sitting on a towel for a couple of hours, so it will double in bulk. I have my doubts.
> 
> I used fFeischmann's yeast and all purpose flour plus the salt and water in the amounts called for.
> 
> Any suggestions? Has anyone else experienced these problems? What a mess.


 
I HOPE YOU SEE THIS!!!

You need to add some more flour. Take it off the towel now and add some flour until it is "soft as a baby's bottom". It isn't meant to be wet on the towel.

For adding the flour at this stage, I flour the counter liberally (1/2C maybe a bit more?). Then I just turn the glob of dough over so both sides are floured--in the case of sticky globs, I have used a pastry scraper or spatula. I just keep gently turning it until it will form that baby's bottom thing. I usually have a good bit of flour left.

Also, I have begun to allow mine to rise in a bowl--others have used a colander. Put saran wrap in a bowl that is about twice the size of the dough. Put some cornmeal on it, put in the dough (that you have added more flour to at this point). Allow it to rise--I did some yesterday and could have baked after about 2 hours, but let it rise several more. 
Then plonk into your baking setup.

On another board someone also said that the dough was wet--there is no reason to keep it that way--ADD FLOUR to make a dough that while not at all stiff, it isn't sticky in any way. 

Again, don't make this recipe difficult. It may need tweaking from the recipe, and it isn't an exact cup for cup measurement (like a cake), but it is easy and delicious.


----------



## lyndalou

Well, Candocook, I wish I had read your message a lot earlier. My dough was very wet and I had one hard time getting it to form anything. I ended up with a free form  loaf of bread. The crust is quite chewy (had a hard time slicing it with my bread knife) and the inside is  soft. Is this the way yours turns out?
I will make this again, but will follow your good advice and use more flour.


Thanks for the information.

Lyndalou


----------



## Candocook

lyndalou said:
			
		

> Well, Candocook, I wish I had read your message a lot earlier. My dough was very wet and I had one hard time getting it to form anything. I ended up with a free form loaf of bread. The crust is quite chewy (had a hard time slicing it with my bread knife) and the inside is soft. Is this the way yours turns out?
> I will make this again, but will follow your good advice and use more flour.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the information.
> 
> Lyndalou


 
Surely do wish you had seen it. No, that is not how it should turn out. The crust is ultra crisp and thick and inside is nicely moist--like you would like bread to be.
Please try again--right now!!! It takes virtually no time and no materials.  The step to watch is adding the flour.
Use 1 1/2C water, 3C flour. I use up to a half tsp of yeast. And the salt.
I promise--you can do it.
Slice this bread and use it for croutons.


----------



## jennyema

The dough is supposed to be heavy and wet.  Here's the original article which refers to the wetness of the dough. 

"He mixes a very wet dough, about 42 percent water, which is at the extreme high end of the range that professional bakers use to create crisp crust and large, well-structured crumb, both of which are evident in this loaf. "

"By starting this very wet dough in a hot, covered pot, Mr. Lahey lets the crust develop in a moist, enclosed environment. "

It really shouldn't need much more flour to get it to the proper consistency for the second rise.  It is not supposed to be "like a baby's bottom," which is the descriptive standard for a kneaded bread.  It's supposed to be a wet dough which has enough extra flour added to hold its shape.

I've made this bread at least 2 dozen times at this point and  have had to add a significant amount of extra flour a few times to get the dough to hoild shape, so I did some subsequent research on it.   IMO if you let the first rise go much beyond 16 hours you run the risk of having some of the water "weep" out of the dough.  I don't have my Cookwise right here but it says that if the dough is left to rise for too long, some of the water can be forced out of it.

I have experienced that myself with the dough going from shaggy and heavy and bubbly, etc at 12-14 hours to somewhat separated at 20 hours.  With a 24 hour rise there definitely was some water that had separated from the dough.  Under these circumstances it was impossible to get the dough to keep it's shape without adding maybe 1/3 - 1/2 cup more flour.

So now I try to let the first rise go 16 hours and no more.

Also -- skip the towel and use a bowl like others have said.


----------



## lyndalou

Thanks again for the advice. I am definitely going to try again, as soon as I can get some more flour. Tomorrow is soon enough.

Really good idea to use the one I have for croutons.

I'll also cut down on the rising time. It sort of got away from me, as I started it at 9am . Got up at 5am to finish it.  I don't give up easily so you can count on hearing from me again.

Lyndalou


----------



## Aria

lyndalou,  You should follow the recipe.   It says 12 to 18 hours.  And please
see previous posts with detailed info.  Many have tried and perfected it.
You can too.    3 cups flour     1/4 teaspoon yeast  1-1/4 teaspoon salt        1-1/2 cups warm water.   I believe a photo of my loaf is on page 20.  Good luck.  Looking forward to your bread photo.


----------



## Aria

lyndalou,  complet detail instructions I posted on page 20 and photo on
page 21


----------



## Candocook

_It really shouldn't need much more flour to get it to the proper consistency for the second rise. It is not supposed to be "like a baby's bottom," which is the descriptive standard for a kneaded bread. It's supposed to be a wet dough which has enough extra flour added to hold its shape._

I guess there might be more than one way to get good bread from this recipe. My "baby's bottom" is smooth and resilient and plump--not at all "pokable". The dough would drape over my hand--but it is a lovely soft exterior texture.
  I have let it go 24 hours with no loss of texture or goodness of the resulting bread. I have also let the second rise go 12 hours and had an outstanding loaf of bread.  My point would be that it is almost foolproof, IF you get the dough for the second rise "not wet"--but if one prefers a "wet" dough, that is fine with me. 
My first one was wet--and the bread was good--a bit moist in the middle.  Subsequently, the amount of flour I have added at the second rise is very small--but I have seen no prohibitions on the amount added. You just add what is needed.  
 So, once again, I think good results can be had from many ways of doing the bread.  I am just trying to help those having problems.


----------



## lyndalou

Very much appreciated, candocook. I am going to get some flour and try again today.


----------



## cjs

I've made this bread quite a few times now and love it - now, it's time to 'play' with the dough. Some of you (can't remember who, and I'm not readiing 23 pages of this thread...  ) have added goodies to the dough. I'm wanting to add some roasted garlic, but I'm not sure when to make the addition.

I was going to do this last nite, but was hesitant to have the garlic in the initial dough out all nite. But, with just folding over the dough for the second rise or rest, doesn't look like it will be dispersed enough....so, when to add goodies??? Thanks for any ideas.


----------



## GB

When I added cheese I added it during the first rise. That worked really well for me. I believe Jenny added hers for the second rise and that worked really well for her too. 

I added mine during the first rise for the same reason you mentioned. I was not sure how I was going to incorporate it well any other way. It can be done though so I don't think it much matters when it is added.


----------



## cjs

O.K., looks like I'll add it with the initial ingred. Thanks.


----------



## Candocook

And with your garlic (thanks for the idea) how about some chopped kalamata? That was what I was going to do next.
And agree it has to be the first rise. I try to work the dough as little as possible in the addition of flour for the second rise to preserve the "sponginess/rise" that the dough has at that point.


----------



## Aria

I agree to add "other ingredients"  garlic or chopped kalamata in the first rise.
Many  are making the bread.....we would like to see photos.  Yes?  It is interesting and fun to see different textures and shapes of this wonderful Bread Recipe


----------



## jennyema

Made it yet again yesterday. I have been making it once or even twice a week for months now. My friends request it. Now I am starting to give them the recipe instead! 

The first rise was 14 hours. The only flour added was on the counter and a bit sprinkled on top so that I could "fold it like an envelope" and form into a ball. The dough was very wet and did not resemble a baby's bottom whatsoever -- more like my own bottom, actually ...  

Like always, second rise in greased bowl. Baked in 3 1/2 quart LC oven. Baked for less time than recipe tells you to. Added 2+ T of DC kosher salt -- more than recipe says.

Like always ... perfect moist, holey tasty bread. I have my favorite Jarlsberg and arugula sammie for lunch today!

I love the idea of olive bread. I ate my weight of that stuff one trip to Italy! That'll definitely be my next project -- tnx for the idea!


----------



## cjs

Well, I think I'm going to stay with a slice of the bread smeared with roasted garlic and other goodies. I added roasted garlic to the dough during the fermentation stage (about 12 hours into it) and it really worked fine, except for the first time the crust was not the wonderful crisp crust as all the other loaves have been. 

So, I'd rather give up the garlic than the crust. But the flavor was asolutely wonderful!! Darn.


----------



## Half Baked

Maybe I didn't add as much garlic as you, plus I added during the 2 hr rise.  My bread was still crusty.

My favorite is either plain or with the cheese.


----------



## Candocook

cjs said:
			
		

> Well, I think I'm going to stay with a slice of the bread smeared with roasted garlic and other goodies. I added roasted garlic to the dough during the fermentation stage (about 12 hours into it) and it really worked fine, except for the first time the crust was not the wonderful crisp crust as all the other loaves have been.
> 
> So, I'd rather give up the garlic than the crust. But the flavor was asolutely wonderful!! Darn.


 
I wouldn't think that the garlic would make any difference in the crust. Were the baking times covered and uncovered the same? I really think it must be something else.


----------



## jennyema

Candocook said:
			
		

> I wouldn't think that the garlic would make any difference in the crust. Were the baking times covered and uncovered the same? I really think it must be something else.


 

I agree.  I don't think the garlic would have much to do with the crustiness of the bread.


----------



## Aria

I gave my neighbor the New York Times No Knead Bread recipe.  She purchased a Hamilton Beach Crock Pot with plans to use the insert for baking this bread.

The insert was oval shape.   She used 1 & 1/2 recipe.  And the loaf was well shaped, delicious and turned out well.

She does NOT like the Artisan type, crust, texture etc.  She made me a gift of the Hamilton Beach Oval Shaped Crock Pot.


----------



## jennyema

Aria said:
			
		

> I gave my neighbor the New York Times No Knead Bread recipe. She purchased a Hamilton Beach Crock Pot with plans to use the insert for baking this bread.
> 
> The insert was oval shape. She used 1 & 1/2 recipe. And the loaf was well shaped, delicious and turned out well.
> 
> She does NOT like the Artisan type, crust, texture etc. She made me a gift of the Hamilton Beach Oval Shaped Crock Pot.


 

Wow!  I can't imagine not liking that bread.  I bought bread from a bakery on Saturday -- bread that I used to love -- and it just pales in comparison to this particular recipe.

That you got a brand new crockpot out of the deal is great


----------



## bethzaring

Half way through my very first loaf of this bread, DH was muttering that he did not like this bread. But by the end of that first loaf he had changed his mind. Now he looks around the kitchen for any of "that tough bread"


----------



## Barb L.

H and I love this bread, but it doesn't keep well - gets to hard -any suggestions ?


----------



## Candocook

That is a characteristic of this style bread--very like the French baguette, which is basically inedible about 6 hours after it is baked! Having no shortening contributes to that--but if it had shortening, it wouldn't have that big hole/artisanal texture.  It is a tradeoff.  
That said, I have been surprised at how good it IS the next day. Mine is often very moist when baked and the next day it is a bit '"dryer" and the crust is softer. We have had very good luck using for several days, particularly for sandwiches.


----------



## Half Baked

After we've had a few slices, I wrap my bread in 2 layers of saran wrap and then put it in a ziplock. Granted it loses the hard crust but the bread lasts several days with no other ill effects.


----------



## GB

Candocook said:
			
		

> this style bread--very like the French baguette, which is basically inedible about 6 hours after it is baked!


I have had the exact opposite experience. My bread has remained perfect for many days after it was baked. You would not be able to tell the difference between my 3 day old bread and my 1 hour old bread.


----------



## bethzaring

Same here, I leave my bread out on the counter in a plastic bag for up to six days, with minor changes in dryness.  Maybe this is due to the shortened baking time, I believe we both eliminate or shorten the final 15 minutes of baking with the lid off.  I am not precise in the baking temp.


----------



## Candocook

GB said:
			
		

> I have had the exact opposite experience. My bread has remained perfect for many days after it was baked. You would not be able to tell the difference between my 3 day old bread and my 1 hour old bread.


 
Which is what I also posted, GB.  Mine stays very fresh in a plastic bag on the counter.  Which is very different from the baguette, although the makeup is so similar.


----------



## Barb L.

I may be over baking mine, will take it out sooner next time.  My crust gets so hard can hardly cut it.  Not giving up, DH and I both enjoy it very much.


----------



## Katie H

We've made it several times and have never had a problem with it getting hard.  It actually doesn't last long enough I think.  It's so good.


----------



## GB

I don't even store mine in a bag. I let it sit out. I tried it in a bag the first time I made it, but the crust ended up getting too soft that way.


----------



## Aria

I do not remove the cover and cook for an additional 15 minutes.  It is a perfect "well done" color after baking for 30 minutes at 450.   I let it cool and keep it on my counter with a tea towel around it.

Next day I place it in a plastic OPEN bag and it lasts fine.


----------



## jabbur

I'm thinking about making this recipe but I'm not sure if the pot I have will work.  I have a large cast aluminum pot with a lid.  The lid had a wooden knob for a handle on top and the pot was made to use over an open fire.  I'm sure it will bake well but reading the recipe I wasn't sure if it would be a good substitute.  It might be a good excuse to hit BB&B to look for the perfect thing to bake the bread in!


----------



## Barb L.

jabbur said:
			
		

> I'm thinking about making this recipe but I'm not sure if the pot I have will work.  I have a large cast aluminum pot with a lid.  The lid had a wooden knob for a handle on top and the pot was made to use over an open fire.  I'm sure it will bake well but reading the recipe I wasn't sure if it would be a good substitute.  It might be a good excuse to hit BB&B to look for the perfect thing to bake the bread in!


 I think you could use you this pot, just cover the knob with foil.


----------



## Katie H

My brother used his cast aluminum pot, but he removed his knob and replaced it with a nut and bolt for this use.  The 450-degree temp would not be good for the wood.

His bread turned out just fine.


----------



## JohnL

Well I finally did it!
At the age of 50, I baked my first loaf of bread 
Gretchen, thank you so much for starting this thread. I made mine this weekend as per the original recipe with two minor modifications, both of which were recommended here on DC. One was to reduce the amount of water from 1 5/8 cup to 1 1/2 cup and the other was to increase the amount of salt to 2 tsp. I have to admit I had absolutely no confidense that this would work (I'm definately NOT a baker). I was so suprised when I checked the dough after 18 hours. It looked alive! I did use the cotton towels as per the recipe with no sticking issues at all. I baked mine in a cast iron dutch oven but I didn't have a lid. Soooo, I made a coller so to speak from aluminum foil and covered the top edge of the pot. Then I put a cast iron skillet on top of the foil as a lid. Still can't believe that it worked 
Now that I feel a bit more confident, I'll be baking bread more often!
Man this stuff tastes good


----------



## Barb L.

Isn't it great John !  I also increased my yeast to half teaspoon, we love it !  Sons don't, -  good - more for us !!  Yum


----------



## Candocook

John, you could use your cast iron oven as the TOP and use a cookie sheet for the bottom. Turn your dough onto the cookie sheet after the preheating time and then put the oven over the dough.


----------



## JohnL

I'll have to try that on my next loaf Barb. Does the dough rise more?
Cando, that's a great idea. You should have seen the way I unceremoniously plopped the dough into the dutch oven  It was by all accounts pretty pityful.......


----------



## Aria

JohnL, That's the beauty of this recipe you can "plop" the dough and it still makes a good loaf to enjoy.   Do you have a crock pot?  You can use the ceramic inside.

I know you are going to bake this bread often.  Try and get a pot easy to use.  You will enjoy baking this bread more and more.  Almost can't fail.

There must be a simpler POT for baking?  Yes?  Seek...you may find.
Garage sale?  Thrift shop?  It will be your BREAD POT.


----------



## cjs

John, oh you are hooked now, I'll bet!!! I've brot everything with me in our 5th wheel - this oven really sucks, but if it works here, then I'll believe the person who first said, you just can't mess up with this!


----------



## Aria

cjs,   Just make sure the oven is well heated 450 degrees with the pot you are going to use in it.    Remove, plop the dough in and wait for the great results.  Keep us posted.


----------



## Essiebunny

I baked a loaf for dinner with another couple. They couldn't get enough. I wish I had made 2 loaves.


----------



## LEFSElover

hum, well, like many others, it seems not possible.
I'll try it, what have I got to lose?
but with so many recipes calling for so much more yeast, I can't see how this could or would work.  
Question, when you plop the dough into the hot/heated/smoldering receptacle you're going to use to bake it in ie. a le creuset or the inner part of my crock pot, do you let it rise in that, or no, just put the lid on and put it back in the oven?  it'd be so neat if this did work and the testaments are wonderful but I'm a bit leary. 
don't get home until tomorrow and after watching the video, it'll take about a minute to pull it together, then all I need is the rest of the weekend.
so 500 degrees for 30 minutes, take off lid and then how much longer in the same smokin hot oven?


----------



## Katie H

Nope, no additional rising.  Just plop the whole glob into the hot vessel.  Put the lid on and bake as directed.  You will be rewarded with awesome bread.  Have faith!

I didn't bake mine at 500 degrees.  I found 425 worked best for my cast-iron pot.  Remove the lid and bake for about 15 or more minutes.  The bread will come right out of the pan and it will "crackle" as it cools on a wire rack.


----------



## GB

I do 500 degrees for 30 minutes with the lid on the whole time. After that it is done and I take it out and let it cool on a rack. 

Try any of the ways mentioned and you will find what works for you. You will not mess it up though no matter which way you use.


----------



## Snoop Puss

GB said:
			
		

> I do 500 degrees for 30 minutes with the lid on the whole time. After that it is done and I take it out and let it cook on a rack.



Sorry GB, is that "cook" or "cool"?


----------



## GB

Oops thanks for catching that Snoop Puss. It should say cool. I will edit it.


----------



## Aria

I bake mine at 450 degrees with cover for 30 minutes.  Then remove to cool on a rack.  SIMPLE.  Works EVERYTIME.  No failures.  Enjoy the process and the bread.


----------



## LEFSElover

it's in the oven now.  I used my circulon 10 quart with lid to use as a receptacle.  I hope that's okay.  I'll soon find out.  I preheated the oven to 515º  and the pot too.  Yesterday when I made the dough it was early, around 9:30, as the one from the day before did nothing.  Never rose at all.
So, couldn't bake it off last night, it hadn't had 18 hours to do it's thing.  Wasn't going to get up in the middle of the night to bake it off, so I did it at 8:00 am.  I know it's closer to 24 hours than 18 so we'll see.  If I screwed up, I'll buy more flour and start again today.  Um, I'm concerned it won't work dang.

I'll report back though, just in case there is success here now I'll read the other posts on this phenom


----------



## Katie H

Sorry about your flub, LEFSE.  I have let mine go as long as 24 hours with no problem.

I've discovered that mine bakes best at 425 degrees.  I use my big, old-fashioned cast-iron skillet with real high sides to bake mine in.  The "lid" is my cast-iron grill pan turned upside down.  Works like a charm.

I baked a loaf yesterday about 4 p.m.  I'd started the dough about 3 p.m. Saturday.  Turned out great.

I've figured that if I allow 22 hours, start to finish, then I can gauge my time so that I won't goof up and have to be making bread at 4 a.m. or some other goofy time.

Let us know how your bread turns out.


----------



## bethzaring

Hey LEFSE's we are anxious to hear how it turned out.

Honestly, this is the most consistent bread I have ever made.  And I have made it over 15 times by now. Love the stuff


----------



## LEFSElover

I never let it rise a second time. Hadn't remembered that about the recipe. My gosh I just read this entire thread and now it's time to return to bed as I'm exhausted .
 Okay, the smell wonderful, the consistency wonderful, the flavor wonderful. I used a clean Emeril towel, the ones he uses on his shows that he always tosses over his shoulder. I lightly floured it and cornmealed it, and no sticking no trouble at all. I thought the dough looked not wet enough when I was making it and added a bit more water. My kitchen was cold and I set the oven [to just come on] then turned it off and placed my trifle bowl in there with Saran on top, tight. It just took the chill off the coldness in here. Put it on the stove last night when I made those chocolate peanut butter cupcakes and never returned the dough to the oven. This morning I took it out of the bowl and plopped it onto the towel, folded it over while the oven/circulon heated up to smokin. I turned it out of the towel, turned it so the folded marks were on top to spread and quickly placed it in the smokin hot oven. Set the timer for 30 minutes and took it out when it went off. Didn't leave it in there any longer because truthfully, being an avid bread maker for all of my very lengthy life, I know how it's supposed to look and sound when bread is done and it was. Plopped it on a wire tray to cool while DH's breakfast was cooking. Sliced it, took the heal, a bit of butter [gad don't tell anyone I just cheated on my diet ] and took my first bite. GOODNESS GRACIOUS SAKES ALIVE........... Simply wonderful.
 Not tall enough, and next time I'll use something else. Looked like a panini loaf for sure. DH is sick [and was all weekend] so sans dinner last night. He was asleep. But breakfast thing morning, was two slices hot steamy ‘’yum’’ bread, two over medium perfectly cooked eggs and 5 slices turkey very low fat bacon. He said it was incredible and that the bread rocked.
 To me and my way of thinking, the bread needs to be "wet" if it's going to form those wholes inside, it takes moisture. But I could be wrong on that.
 I have all kinds of flour. I used AP but next time I'll try WW with some AP or Bread Flour that I also have. I'll also toss wheat germ/whole wheat bran/flax seeds/manchego cheese/sun dried tomatoes/kalamata olives/roasted garlic/roasted shallots. [Must remember that olives, cheese, garlic and shallots will add moisture to the dough.] I will also add more salt as I like salt. To my husband and my way of thinking, all the Tuscan loaves we had in Italy were very bland. I think salt pops the flavor of the bread and I'll use natural gray salt like Michael Chiarello uses. I have it on hand. {Just heard a nutritionist on RR say that iodized salt or processed salt causes eye puffiness and is very hard on the kidneys. I'd like to spare mine, both.} Months ago, Costco had a foil bag of active yeast on sale for $7ish. I bought it and have kept it in the freezer. It's easy to get at and stays fresh at least so far. Those little 3 packs are expensive especially when you don't use them in time and they get old and out of date, like my first attempt at this bread recipe where that was what I used.
 I'm a scooper when it comes to flour even though I know better. I don't take the time to spoon it into the measuring cup and then use a knife to scrape it level. Too much work for this girl. My flour lives in my "kitchen store" in a 5 gallon bucket that I bought with a lid, just for the purpose of storing the large amount of flour I use/buy. So, my 3 cups may have equaled [more] as stated by one poster. I wouldn't doubt it a bit. Hence using more water.
 That's my report. I hope you all have the chance to make this bread, especially if you're a bread lover. I have a 2 quart rectangular shaped CorningWare with a lid. I'd like to try that as it would give me a taller loaf, I think. Was also wondering if the terra cotta chicken baker with the lid, soaked in lots of water first, would be a good vehicle for this loaf?


----------



## Aria

I made mine in the insert of my crock pot (ceramic) with a glass lid. Another time baked it in a cast iron dutch oven with cast iron cover.

The crock pot is best for me. Easier to handle, lighter and works every time and I do like the shape of the loaf. (check out page 21of this thread...I think I posted the photo).


----------



## Katie H

I use an electronic scale to do all most all of my cooking/baking, so I just weighed 15 ounces of flour into my bowl.  I also use 1 1/2 teaspoons salt, which is 1/4 teaspoon more than called for in the recipe.  Another change I made was I use spring water.  It's something I learned from Alton Brown.  I haven't used any other water, so I have no way to compare if there's a difference.  The only flour I've ever used is King Arthur Bread Flour.

I buy 1-pound bags of active dry yeast from the Baker's Catalogue and keep it in my freezer.  I pour the yeast into a large glass jar with a tight-fitting lid.  I've been doing this for years and years and the yeast is always just fine.

Ours turned out sooo good yesterday that I have another one in the works.  We had grilled cheese sandwiches with the bread for lunch today.  Omigosh, made Velveeta seem like the finest cheese.  I know using Velveeta is sacriledge, but it's what we had.  We NEEDED a grilled cheese sandwich using _the_ bread.  I have a feeling this loaf will be gone before the other one hits the oven.

Glad you finally see what we've all been raving about.  I'll bet you're hooked now!!!


----------



## bethzaring

any one else still making this bread?  Any new variations to report?


----------



## GB

I had forgotten all about it until my BIL requested that I make it for X-mas last week. I would love to hear about other variations as well.


----------



## Katie H

It's funny you should bring this up, beth.  Beginning on page 18, the January & February 2008 issue of _Cook's Illustrated_, there is a wonderful discussion of no-knead bread.  Great article and they offer variations, as well as enhancing the taste of the bread with the addition of lager.  It's "must" try for me.  I can't wait to see how it turns out and how it will taste.


----------



## bethzaring

hey Katie, is it the NY Times recipe; 3 C. flour, 1/4 t. yeast and 1 1/4 t. salt?  lager? for the whole liquid volume?  What makes the article so great??

I have been using all whole wheat flour and keeping the dough in the bowl for the whole process.  I just flop the dough around when it is time for the 15 minute fold and 2 hour rise.


----------



## Katie H

No, it's not the N.Y. Times recipe, but similar.  The ingredients include 3 cups flour, 1/4 tsp. instant yeast, 1 1/2 tsp. salt, 3/4 cup plus 2 Tbsp. water, 1/4 cup plus 2 Tbsp. mild lager, and 1 Tbsp. white vinegar.

They have also created a different way of transferring the dough to the hot pan and have developed recipes for "Olive, Rosemary and Parmesan Bread," "Whole Wheat Bread," and "Cranberry-Pecan Bread."

It's an interesting article and I'm not sure if it's available online, but it would be worth a look-see.


----------



## nancylee

I love that bread!  Every time I make it people are so impressed..........I will look for the magazine sounds like some fun alternatives.


----------



## mozart

bethzaring said:


> hey Katie, is it the NY Times recipe; 3 C. flour, 1/4 t. yeast and 1 1/4 t. salt? lager? for the whole liquid volume? What makes the article so great??


 
I have read the Cooks Ill. article and also find it great.

If you are not familiar with CI, they always spend at least a page or two explaining the process they went through to create a better recipe, and just why it works.  Very much like "Good Eats" on the Food Network if you get that.  In this case, the original recipe was considered flat tasting and had various shapes depending on how it was handled getting to the pan.

Their goal is to simplify that type of stuff.  For example, they call for some kneading which takes 15-20 seconds, but results in the rise only needing to be only 8 hours.  They use parchment to transfer to a preheated dutch oven, so the handling is minimized after the second rise and little if any deflation takes place.

I have never tried a recipe of theirs that turned out bad, and some have been fantastic.

Mozart


----------



## jennyema

I still make it all the time.  I worked out my own variation on how to transfer it long ago -- do the second rise in a bowl and dump it in.


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## xmascarol1

*update on the nyt artesan bread*

I've been passing along this recipe for a year now, and guess what? Cooks Illustrated has improved on it now. It's in their latest issue. Essentially they hydrate the flour slightly less and add beer and vinegar to get that sourness character from a real artesan bakery. they add about a little kneading too to get the gluten strands lengthened because of the less amount of water. 
So the procedure here is still the same but here are the changes ** indicates different amounts
3 c. flour 
1/4 t. yeast
1 1/2 t. salt
7 ounces water ** (3/4 c + 2 T )
3 ounces mild lager (like Bud) 1/4 c +2 T)

Stir until a shaggy ball, let rise in sealed bowl for 8 -18 hours.

Then when you turn it out on the floured surface, knead it  10-to 15 times.
**Here's another trick they came up with.  Form it into the loaf, (it will be a bit easier because it's not so moist)and place it in a parchment lined skillet.  Isn't that a neat trick.  Now when you transfer it into the Dutch oven, just lift the parchment, bread and all and place into it. 
They reduced the heat to 425 when they put the bread in the oven and baked 30 min with the lid on and 20 to 30 min. with it off.


----------



## GB

I like the idea of vinegar, but I don't see amounts in your post. Do you recall how much they used? I am guessing a tablespoon or maybe two.


----------



## xmascarol1

*the vinegar*

oops, I see I didn't include that.  sorry
1T. white vinegar


----------



## GB

Awesome, thanks!


----------



## CAPerez

This bread looks great!  I'm going to start the process tomorrow.  I'm new to this forum and love all the advice, pictures!


----------



## VitaWright

Does anyone know if I need to season the pot that I bake this in?  Like spray Pam in it or something?  It will most likely be baked in an enameled cast iron pot.


----------



## Katie H

VitaWright said:


> Does anyone know if I need to season the pot that I bake this in?  Like spray Pam in it or something?  It will most likely be baked in an enameled cast iron pot.



I've never treated/sprayed my pan with anything before adding my bread  dough.


----------



## nancylee

cooks great in enamel, no spray needed.


----------



## VitaWright

Excellent!  Thanks everyone!


----------



## VitaWright

OMG!!!!!!!! There are no words to describe how positively awesome this bread is!!.  Fantastic!!!!!!!!!


----------



## xmascarol1

*NYT bread*

if you don't use that new hint of using parchment paper, which I think is just great, then just throw a little cornmeal on the bottom.


----------



## goodgiver

*Bread Recipe*

Is there any way of making this bread that the outside is crusty but not as crusty as mine gets. A person almost can break their teeth on my crusts.  I truly love this bread and would make it a lot more if the crust wasn't quite so crusty


----------



## goodgiver

*Cooks*

I do not get Cooks Illustrated magazine so how can I get their bread recipe. Would really love to try it.


----------



## mozart

VitaWright said:


> Does anyone know if I need to season the pot that I bake this in? Like spray Pam in it or something? It will most likely be baked in an enameled cast iron pot.


 
If you use the parchment trick (to move it into the CI pot) you should spray the parchment with cooking spray.


----------



## jpmcgrew

I have made the starter/poolish tonight cant wait.I sounds alot like a Ciabatta its a really loose dough with incredible flavor and great chewyness.


----------



## jpmcgrew

OMG just had some I love it.Looks like I will be going on a bender making this bread for a while


----------



## xmascarol1

Well, I think if you just put it in plastic or Saran wrap after it cools instead of leaving it covered with a cloth, it should soften up some.


----------



## jpmcgrew

Mine turned out just perfectly by following the recipe excactly.Letting the poolish/starter sit longer than recommended just makes it break down unless you feed it more, just like a sourdough temperature is important for fermentation if its colder it takes longer if its warmer it takes less time.I used a CI dutch oven.Im considering adding some sesame,poppy seeds etc next time.The only thing I would do different is after I took the lid off is to let it brown some more than I did it still was perfect but could be a bit browner.I was worried it would burn on the bottom but it did not.
The dough is supposed to be very loose thats the whole point just like a good Ciabatta dough.I used corn meal a fair amount on the bottom and the top.When I picked up final rise from under towel to put in hot CI it fell in perfect.


----------



## xmascarol1

*Cooks Il recipe*



goodgiver said:


> I do not get Cooks Illustrated magazine so how can I get their bread recipe. Would really love to try it.


What I posted back a page is what their recipe is.  They are difficult to get their stuff out.  I suggest you go to the library and get the last issue and just read  it.  CI seems to want you to pay for anything they do.


----------



## Potato Repairman

I made this bread twice in the last week.  I'm not a baker.  In my first attempt I made two mistakes.  I used rapid rise yeast, which I just added dry, and I was so caught up in following the recipe, I used only 1 3/8 cups of water.  The dough was very dry , I had a quarter of a cup of unincorportated flour left in my bowl as well as many small hard chunks of flour and water paste.  The dough was stringy to be sure I continued on.  I left it to rise for the full 18 hours.  I left it in a bowl , but it didn't look like it had doubled to me.  The dough didn't seem to be all bubbly sponge-looking either.  Not having much to lose I carried on.  Turned it out, let is rest and baked it in a 450 oven using my Scan Pan dutch oven and a lid from a different pan.  After 30 mins I removed the lid and let it back for another 15.  The bread looked quite good and made a wonderful crackling sound. It was a very thick crispy crust bread, with a dense crumb.  It was pretty good actually, and only one small dough nugget was found inside the loaf.  I only mention this if your dough is too wet I would just add more flour and carry on.  The second loaf I made I followed the instructions as printed , this time using SAP instant yeast and I did use the full 1 5/8 cups of water.  I used Dakota Maid all purpose flour which has some malt barley flour in it for both loaves.  This time the bread was perfect.  Absolutely perfect.  My loaf came out to about 9" in diameter.

Does anyone have suggestions for modifying this recipe for use with a sourdough starter?


----------



## xmascarol1

*what fun for bread*

you did beautifully!  I'm pleased that you are game to correct mistakes easily and come out with a great bread.  Did you use the original recipe or did you use the Cooks Illustrated update with the vinegar ?  Just curious.


----------



## Katie H

*Cook's Illustrated vs. NYT method - my experiment*

I made the _Cook's Illustrated_ version of the no-knead bread twice this weekend.  First using all-purpose flour as they recommended.  Bread was quite good.  The second time I used bread flour and like the loaf it produced better.  The texture was better and the bread rose higher.

Today I'm going to make the original NYT no-knead bread but will use the _Cook's Illustrated_ method of transfer with the parchment paper.  I'll see which of the three loaves I prefer.

I love baking bread and eating it, of course.  We have so much homemade crusty bread that we'll just HAVE to have grilled cheese sandwiches (using Gruyere and Emmenthal) for lunch today.


----------



## elaine l

i would like to try this but I don't think my pan would be enough.  Is it possible to cut the recipe in half?


----------



## xmascarol1

*ny bread*

Hey, why not. I would suggest you make a 2/3 recipe and see what happens.  You won't be out much on supplies and it just might work great.


----------



## jpmcgrew

18 hours is definitely better than 12.I baked one off today but I put a litlle cornmeal and then a bunch of seeds flax,sesame,poppy,black caraway,sunflower and anise.Turned out great. Seeds stuck on pretty good but I think next time I will spray the top with some water or brush with eggwash then sprinkle seeds and bake so maybe they will stick even better.


----------



## xmascarol1

*using the baking method*

Okay, I don't like to eat just this artisan bread but enjoy other types including finer crumb bread.  So I took my rye bread recipe, formed it into a round loaf, let it rise and then baking it in the same manner as the nyt bread--ie in the Dutch oven.  Only this time, I also didn't want to heat up the whole big oven, so took my clay garlic baker which has a nice round dome, and looked like it would hold about 1# loaf, and just baked it in my countertop convection oven at 500 degrees.   Turned out with a great crust and a wonderful moist crumb inside.  I did use my instant read thermometer to check on the internal temp of 200.  So this is really easy now and as there's just 2 of us, we have trouble often finishing bigger loaves and we like variety.


----------



## Katie H

jpmcgrew said:


> 18 hours is definitely better than 12.I baked one off today but I put a litlle cornmeal and then a bunch of seeds flax,sesame,poppy,black caraway,sunflower and anise.Turned out great. Seeds stuck on pretty good but I think next time I will spray the top with some water or brush with eggwash then sprinkle seeds and bake so maybe they will stick even better.



Omigosh, jp.  I've so abused this dough.  I've even let it go 21 hours with no negative results.


----------



## DietitianInTraining

*Alright, i'm gettin ready..*

I have been reading most of the posts about this bread, and am ready to try to make it...But i have a few questions...

*I havn't baked with Yeast before, the yeast i just bought a couple weeks ago says 'Quick Rise Highly Active Yeast'.. will this work? Do i have to open it and put it in warm water, or whatever?

*I know there's been discussion about the recipe using too much water, so would you all recommend i use less than 1 5/8?

*And should i use the towel like it says, or is there a better way? I don't have parchment paper...

*I hope i have the right kind of pot to bake it in... I don't know what it's made of, but i have a pretty big pot that i use to make chilli, and other soups, and it has a glass lid (oven safe?) But i've heard some people use the ceramic insert in their crock pot, and set the loaf on a cookie sheet, and use the ceramic insert as a lid over it? The lid that goes to my crock pot has a plastic handel, so i can't use that..


I know this is an old thread, but i just saw it, and would LOVE to try this and take it to my inlaws house on Sunday and surprise them with a wonderful bread! I will start this as soon as i get some help with my questions....

Thank you all!


----------



## xmascarol1

*getting started on the bread*

Well, your yeast will work just fine.  Just put in the amount it says in the recipe.  Next, if you haven't made bread before, the mixture says "shaggy dough" which is like drop biscuit dough.  It will probably take a few times of baking this for you to get the feel of how moisture you like in your bread.  
You can use the towel method, but I advise you to buy some parchment paper as it works so good.  (brown paper from a paper bag would work alright too.  )  It's just so much less messy.  
I don't know about the glass lid idea.  But that idea of the crock pot insert on top of the cookie sheet sounds innovative.  
Hey, it's just bread and it will be edible , however it comes out.  Good luck.


----------



## cookbookie

*no knead bread*

This recipe always  works.  great bread.
 Cook's magazine changed the recipe slighly and the result is even better than the original -
3 c flour1/4 teaspoon instant yeast
1 1/2 teaspoon salt
3/4 cup plus 2 Tablespoons water at room temp
1/4 cup plus 2 Tablespoons mild flavored lager
1 tablspoon  white vinegar
the rest of the instructions are about the same
makes a great loaf


----------



## nancylee

I have made this a few times trying different ways to keep it from sticking to the towel.  I tried the beer method with parchment and what a great idea using the paper!!  The beer not sure made much difference.  But we love it anyway it comes out of the oven!
nancylee


----------



## DietitianInTraining

My bread is doing it's 2 hour resting right now.. 

So far i think it's okay. I let it rise for 18 hours, covered with seran wrap ontop of our stove. It was all bubbly looking when i got up this morning. 

It was pretty sticky when i was moving it to the floured countertop, but i had lots of corn meal on the counter, and once i sprinkled more ontop it wasn't so sticky. 

I floured my towel real well, and plopped it (seam side down) on the towel, then covered with another towel. I think someone said that if you put it in a smaller bowel during the 2 hours it might rise a little better than being on the counter? I just set it in the crock pot i'll be using to bake it in... We'll see!

I'm excited about this bread... I have never successfuly made bread before. Thanks so much for posting this recipe... I will let you all know how it turns out...


----------



## bethzaring

beginner_chef said:


> I just set it in the crock pot i'll be using to bake it in... We'll see!
> 
> ..


 
don't forget that you need to pre-heat the crock pot before you put the dough in it right before you put it in the oven


----------



## DietitianInTraining

I SUCCESSFULY MADE BREAD!!!!! 

It is soooo good!!! I LOVE the flavor of it!

A couple questions though,

The crust on my bread was so hard i had a hard time cutting it.. is that normal?

And i was looking forward to the 'snap,crackle' noise after i took it out of the oven, but wasn't any to be heard?...

I have 2 more loafs rising right now! I LOVE IT!


----------



## cookbookie

nothing smells  better than a loaf of bread baking  on a cold day. it is snowing here and I wish I had set out my dough last night.  I will do it tonight so tomorrow will be warm and cuddly.  I just bought some good Irish butter that will go just perfectly with it.


----------



## LadyCook61

Gretchen said:


> This is so unbelievably easy it isn't even funny. You follow the directions as given. No oiling no nothing.
> I don't make artisanal breads either because --well, they are hard to do.
> The loaf that you get looks like the best European bakery!! Crusty, pully, holey.


hmm holey? Must be for Sundays ...  Just kidding


----------



## LadyCook61

xmascarol1 said:


> Okay, I don't like to eat just this artisan bread but enjoy other types including finer crumb bread. So I took my rye bread recipe, formed it into a round loaf, let it rise and then baking it in the same manner as the nyt bread--ie in the Dutch oven. Only this time, I also didn't want to heat up the whole big oven, so took my clay garlic baker which has a nice round dome, and looked like it would hold about 1# loaf, and just baked it in my countertop convection oven at 500 degrees. Turned out with a great crust and a wonderful moist crumb inside. I did use my instant read thermometer to check on the internal temp of 200. So this is really easy now and as there's just 2 of us, we have trouble often finishing bigger loaves and we like variety.


Certainly inventive and creative!


----------



## LadyCook61

xmascarol1 said:


> What I posted back a page is what their recipe is. They are difficult to get their stuff out. I suggest you go to the library and get the last issue and just read it. CI seems to want you to pay for anything they do.


 I agree about CI making one pay for the info or getting recipes.


----------



## xmascarol1

Now one more llittle trick that helps.  I have those thin silicone sheets that come from the kitchen stores in 2 in a roll.  I use them for all my cooking and baking sheets, and they have lasted for 4 years so far.  Well, after doing the baking paper route for letting the bread rise and then lifting the unbaked loaf into the Dutch oven, I thought I'd try using those silicone sheets.  Voila!  It was perfect. No mess, no burnt paper , easy to handle.  What could be quicker?


----------



## plumies

I made the bread last night and it was wonderful!  I brought in half the loaf to share with some friends at work and now 3 of them are shopping for Dutch ovens.  

I also used silicone baking sheets and it worked great.


----------



## suziquzie

I apologize in advance for these dumb questions!

I'm going cross-eyed reading all 11 pages looking for how to use the parchment paper trick? 
I may have a day off tomorrow to play with this with my oldest son. Haven't made any yet. 
ANy other tips?


----------



## jpmcgrew

When you get to final rise put dough on parchment and then into bowl when ready to bake pick up dough with the sides of parchment and put in DO. Make sure parchment is big enough to be able to pick it up.


----------



## suziquzie

should the parchment go most of the way up the sides of the DO?


----------



## jpmcgrew

suziquzie said:


> should the parchment go most of the way up the sides of the DO?


 Yes and you still want to put some corn meal on it. If parchment sticks out the top when lid is on it's still ok. You will figure it out


----------



## suziquzie

I'm really more nervous about this than i should be, heck I make bagels for a living what is my problem?!?!?!
 Thanks!


----------



## jpmcgrew

Don't worry it's easy it wont mess up your bread. I used to make bagels as well many years ago in a small bakery I made them by hand got really good at it.


----------



## Katie H

I usually just tear off a sheet of parchment paper that is a big square.  I don't remember exactly how long a roll of parchment paper is, but I pull off a piece that is as long as it is wide.  It's always been big enough for me.  Sometimes I put cornmeal on it.  Sometimes I don't.  Doesn't seem to make any difference one way or the other.  

Don't worry, suzi.  This dough is very forgiving.  You can abuse the heck out of it and you'll still get a beautiful loaf of bread.  Save your stress for "Lego girl."


----------



## suziquzie

I got word this morning that the oven at work went out, I may have the weekend off....
I figured I would make this so I don't go thru dough withdrawl!!! 

I can use my crockpot insert right? My DO handles can't go over 350......


----------



## bethzaring

suziquzie said:


> I
> I can use my crockpot insert right? My DO handles can't go over 350......


 

yes, I've been using my ceramic crock pot insert with its glass lid with no problems.   i'm making a loaf today, it is easy and delicious


----------



## expatgirl

I use parchment paper and cornmeal when I make pizza---I just cut around the pizza after it's rolled out and place it in the pan.....perfect every time.....


----------



## Katie H

I've been playing with this bread recently.   Decided  to do something using garlic and fresh rosemary.      Sooooo...

I  roasted  a whole  head  of garlic.   Squished out the soft  cloves  into a small  bowl.   Smooshed  (technical  term) them up until   smooth.   Chopped about 2  or 3 tablespoons  fresh rosemary  and combined it  with  the  garlic.

Before I added  the  water  to  the flour, etc., I mixed  in the  garlic/rosemary stuff in  the  water until it  was fully  incorporated.   Then made  the  bread  according  to  directions.

OMIGOSH!!!  Fantabulous!   Can't wait  to  make fontina,  tomato slices, basil  grilled  cheese  sandwiches.  Gonna be  good.  Gonna  be  good.  Gonna be good.


----------



## babetoo

great ideas , i am going to try some as well.

babe


----------



## JoeV

I feel like an evangelist. After gifting two friends this week with NYT Bread, there are now two more disciples carrying forth the torch of this great bread and driving their families crazy with the great smell of homemade bread. Ya gotta love it when a plan comes together. Next they'll be making foccacia, Italian, sour dough, chiabata......

Joe


----------



## xmascarol1

xmascarol1 said:


> Now one more llittle trick that helps. I have those thin silicone sheets that come from the kitchen stores in 2 in a roll. I use them for all my cooking and baking sheets, and they have lasted for 4 years so far. Well, after doing the baking paper route for letting the bread rise and then lifting the unbaked loaf into the Dutch oven, I thought I'd try using those silicone sheets. Voila! It was perfect. No mess, no burnt paper , easy to handle. What could be quicker?


 
I have yet another trick I've done.  Using the silicone sheet, I sprinkle it with a little cornmeal, pour the dough on it, and then take two opposite edges  and bring them together  and pull them up until it forms a cradle.  Take a clip and hold the edges together.  Then when you place the bread in the preheated Dutch oven, just lift the cradled bread, silicone and all into the oven .  You get a lovely long loaf with this.  Actually, I've moved over to my clay chicken baker for the bread instead of the Dutch oven.  works even better.


----------



## CherryRed

I made this bread last week and it was great! It ended up being three loaves; they were gone within a few days (special thanks to some of my sisters' friends who couldn't stop eating it... lol). I'll definitely make this again! It's dangerous though - really tough to resist eating it all when it's so good!


----------



## JoeV

Here's a tip for those empty nesters or anyone who can't eat a whole loaf of NYT in a day or two. Today I took two, 2-1/2 Qt Corning casserole dishes with lids, and split the dough into two smaller loaves. After flouring and folding the dough, I weighed it on my digital scale to get the same amount for each dish. It came out into two smaller loaves that had the same oven spring as the bigger loaf. I then can freeze a whole, uncut loaf to be defrosted when needed. The smaller loaf fits into a 1-gallon zip-lok freezer bag, which I recycle until they cannot be used any longer. I just wash and dry them before re-using them.

BTW, I make my NYT batches using 1# of unbleached AP flour, 1-1/2t salt, 1/4t Instant Yeast and 13 oz water. It's about 3-4 oz larger than the 3C flour recipe, but it works for me since all my recipes are based on weight, not volume.

Joe


----------



## knight76

so this bread is fool proof eh? Well I am going to test that theory right out.

My bread is in the first rise at the moment. After I fold it and flour it etc I am going to put it into a rectangular bread baking tin and bake this in the oven to attempt to get a square loaf. 

So, I wont be pre-heating the loaf tin, I wont be cooking it in a dutch oven, crockpot or any other pot. 

How will this go do you think?


----------



## GB

I think it is a mistake to not preheat the pan first.


----------



## JoeV

knight76 said:


> so this bread is fool proof eh? Well I am going to test that theory right out.
> 
> My bread is in the first rise at the moment. After I fold it and flour it etc I am going to put it into a rectangular bread baking tin and bake this in the oven to attempt to get a square loaf.
> 
> So, I wont be pre-heating the loaf tin, I wont be cooking it in a dutch oven, crockpot or any other pot.
> 
> How will this go do you think?



It's only foolproof if you follow the recipe and directions, which you have chosen to ignore, so you're not testing the theory properly.

The whole concept of this bread is to create the open crumb and chewy crust that is normally created in a steam injected oven with traditional yeast doughs.  This recipe improvises by creating a wet dough that will give off lots of steam in a closed environment for 2/3 of the baking time. If you watched the NYT video this was explained. 

I will be interested in seeing how your bread turns out. At worst, you're only out a little bit of flour, yeast, salt and water. Life is all about experimenting, and some are more daring than others. Go for it!

Joe


----------



## babetoo

i made this bread yesterday, using two glass loaf pans. one was used as the lid. i heated both as recipe states. 

had a little problem with too much moisture, as i used drained chopped green chiles and taco cheese( a blend of four or five cheeses). 

the taste was wonderful, i made the recipe with one and half cups of water. will try squeeze more juice out of chiles with paper towels. had a problem in using parchment paper. oozed out of the ends. looked funny but tasted super.

think i will not use paper again. 

babe

p.s. joey v knows what he is talking about.


----------



## JoeV

babetoo, 

The parchment paper works fine, provided you do the proofing in a shaped basket or bowl that somewhat replicates your baking vessel(s). Since I have oblong and round baking vessels, I use these baskets (lined with parchment paper) to proof my bread. I can then lift the proofed dough from the basket into the baking vessel.







If your chiles have that much moisture in them, just cut back on the water by 1-2 ounces and see how your dough comes out. If it's too dry, just add enough water to get the consistency that you want.

Joe


----------



## babetoo

JoeV said:


> babetoo,
> 
> The parchment paper works fine, provided you do the proofing in a shaped basket or bowl that somewhat replicates your baking vessel(s). Since I have oblong and round baking vessels, I use these baskets (lined with parchment paper) to proof my bread. I can then lift the proofed dough from the basket into the baking vessel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If your chiles have that much moisture in them, just cut back on the water by 1-2 ounces and see how your dough comes out. If it's too dry, just add enough water to get the consistency that you want.
> 
> Joe


 
i did use a basket  lined with parchment paper. i think i did not tear a large enough piece of paper. but will try less water. thanks.

babe


----------



## JoeV

You need about 3" of paper sticking out all around the basket so you have something to grab onto. It works great if you have three hands.


----------



## knight76

GB said:


> I think it is a mistake to not preheat the pan first.



The reason I wasnt going to do this is because I want the loaf to rise for the two hours (second rise) in the pan to shape it into the right loaf shape.

If this can be done another way then im all ears. This is my first ever bread bake as well, so I am learning.


----------



## GB

If this is your first time baking bread then I would highly recommend following the instructions the way they were written. Don't worry about the shape of the bread. It will not affect the flavor. After you have made it once you will have learned some things and then playing around with it will make a lot more sense.


----------



## suziquzie

NO!! BEWARE of playing with this bread!!!! 
I tried it once, after worrying about it for over a month that I would mess it up. 
It's been 3-4 weeks and I had to force myself to run out of yeast so I will stop making (eating!) bread! 
Just my 2 cents....
carry on.


----------



## knight76

So I think I added a little too much water to this as after rising it was too blob like. As in, it was just a really, really sticky blob.

But then I watched a video on you tube of this recipe and mine looked similar to his when he was tipping it out of the tray. Mine was still wetter than that one though.

YouTube - Making No-Knead Bread - the link posted above no longer works so here is one that does.


----------



## GB

Yes it could very possibly be a wet sticky blob. That sounds about right.


----------



## Sedagive

I was reading this thread yesterday and decided to try making this bread. It came out of the oven about an hour ago and is absolutely delicious. For some reason, when I took a picture of it, it looks wet and shiney on the inside but it isn't.  I've never been able to get the big holes in my bread, but as you can see from the photo, I sure got the big holes this time.  I will be making this on a regular basis from now on, in addition to the hearth bread I make from The Bread Bible.


----------



## GB

That is a perfect looking loaf Sedagive.


----------



## Sedagive

GB said:


> That is a perfect looking loaf Sedagive.


 
Thanks.  I was a little worried because this is so different from the way I normally make bread, and the dough was so sticky and gloopy.  But it worked out pretty well I think.  I'm going to make open faced tuna melts with this bread tonight for dinner.  I'm very happy!


----------



## JoeV

I thought I'd play with caramelized Vadalia onions and no-knead bread.







I learned that if you put those 'buttery wet' onions on top of the dough before baking, that the whole top of the loaf becomes soft instead of crusty. It didn't seem to matter when I took them to a fly fishing functions this weekend in Michigan. This is what was left after the first of two evenings. No prisoners were taken, and we went thru two tubs of spinach dip and two tubs of garlic-herb spread, 1# of assorted cheeses and 1# of sliced pepperoni. I now also have a list of people to e-mail the recipes to. More no-knead disciples. LOL






Joe


----------



## babetoo

my goodness joe, you are really into this bread aren't you?  that looks awesome. 

i won't live long enough to try out all these recipes. lol

babe


----------



## passioncook

On the printed recipe, it said to preheat the oven to 450 and then it says to bake it at that temperature, it never says to raise the temp to 500.

On the You Tube video, the guy specifically says 500 degrees, "even 515" he says in the video.  So is it 450 or 500?  500 seems awfully hot.  FWIW, I have it in the oven now at 500, I just didn't know what to do!  What has everyone else done?


----------



## suziquzie

I find 450 is just fine.... I'm using my crockpot insert.


----------



## LadyCook61

passioncook said:


> On the printed recipe, it said to preheat the oven to 450 and then it says to bake it at that temperature, it never says to raise the temp to 500.
> 
> On the You Tube video, the guy specifically says 500 degrees, "even 515" he says in the video. So is it 450 or 500? 500 seems awfully hot. FWIW, I have it in the oven now at 500, I just didn't know what to do! What has everyone else done?


 
I use 450 ,  and enamel dutch oven.


----------



## JoeV

passioncook said:


> On the printed recipe, it said to preheat the oven to 450 and then it says to bake it at that temperature, it never says to raise the temp to 500.
> 
> On the You Tube video, the guy specifically says 500 degrees, "even 515" he says in the video.  So is it 450 or 500?  500 seems awfully hot.  FWIW, I have it in the oven now at 500, I just didn't know what to do!  What has everyone else done?



I have been successfully making this bread at 450 F from the start. With results like this, I'm staying with what works. 






Keep in mind that the video is being shot in a commercial bakery with ovens that have the door(s) opening and closing frequently, so the higher temp is needed to compensate for the heat loss. In the home kitchen you close the door and it stays closed for 30 minutes.

This bread is very forgiving, so don't agonize over the small details. At $.50 cents a loaf or less, you can make a lot of mistakes without going broke. IF you want the crust to be darker, just leave it in the oven uncovered for additional time. Above all, have fun while you're baking.


----------



## GB

I do 500 with results that look like JoeV's. Like Joe said, it is very forgiving. It is hard to mess this bread up.


----------



## babetoo

i have done all i've made at 400 as well. this is such good bread. 

babe


----------



## Sedagive

I bake mine at 450 with excellent results.  I've been using KA bread flour exclusively but today I bought a bag of Gold Medal Harvest King Better for Bread flour.  I'm looking forward to seeing if there is any difference.  The GM was half the price of the KA.  I'll post tomorrow after the bread is done.

Sedagive.


----------



## Aria

*New York Times Bread Thread*

It is great to read more members are "getting into bread making".  It is extremely HOT and HUMID here now.

I Bake bread spring, fall and winter.  I posted my complete directions on Page 20 of this thread for those of you that are interested.  Happy Baking.   Aria


----------



## Aria

*New York Times Bread*

My detail info on page 20  Good luck.  Aria


----------



## GB

Aria said:


> I posted my complete directions on Page 20 of this thread for those of you that are interested.



Just an FYI, the page numbers can be different for everyone depending on how you have your account set up. For instance, I only have 10 pages in this thread. It is better to say what post number you are referring to instead of what page because the post numbers will be the same for everyone.


----------



## sattie

I am not one for baking breads and biscuits.  Have not had much luck with dough or anything it that realm.  I have done biscuits a few times and still trying to figure out what I am doing wrong there.

After looking at this thread and seeing something similar done on Good Eats, this is definately something I want to try.  Looks like it would taste awesome and I can only imagine that making sammies from it would be devine!

First ... I gotta wait till it cools off a bit around here!!!  Tooo dang hot and the air condition runs non stop.


----------



## Aria

*Correction....I should list post #*

I would like to make it simple for all to locate info:
1. my complete directions for New York Times Bread is post #195

2. a photo of my New York Times Bread is post #360

Aria


----------



## Sedagive

Sedagive said:


> I bake mine at 450 with excellent results. I've been using KA bread flour exclusively but today I bought a bag of Gold Medal Harvest King Better for Bread flour. I'm looking forward to seeing if there is any difference. The GM was half the price of the KA. I'll post tomorrow after the bread is done.
> 
> Sedagive.


 
Well, I just tasted the bread and there was no difference in taste or texture with the Gold Medal flour.  It came out kind of flat but I think its because I used a little too much water.  Still very delicious and it cost me half as much to make.


----------



## babetoo

Sedagive said:


> Well, I just tasted the bread and there was no difference in taste or texture with the Gold Medal flour. It came out kind of flat but I think its because I used a little too much water. Still very delicious and it cost me half as much to make.


 
good for you, gold medal is what i use as well. i have even made it with store brand of flour. generally though it is no less expensive than g.m.

babe


----------



## JoeV

Sedagive said:


> Well, I just tasted the bread and there was no difference in taste or texture with the Gold Medal flour.  It came out kind of flat but I think its because I used a little too much water.  Still very delicious and it cost me half as much to make.



I have been using $1.78/5# bag unbleached AP flour for my NYT from day #1. I made one loaf using Bob's Red Mill bread flour ($2.58/5# bag), and like you, noticed no difference in taste, texture, size, etc., so I see no reason to pay more if I'm not deriving some additional benefit for the money, regardless of how little the price difference is ($.16 difference per 1# of flour in this case, as I make my NYT bread using 1# of flour and 12.4 oz of warm water by weight).

Speaking of weight, I think a lot of problems could be resolved for bread bakers if they purchased an inexpensive digital scale, and started to convert their recipes to weight measurement rather than volume measurement. Using this method you are guaranteed repeatability which you will not get from volume measurements. I bought my scale at Target for $29.95, and it has proven to be my most valuable baking and cooking tool. I also use it as a postal scale, and for dividing meat and produce into evenly weighed portions for freezing. Its most frequent use, in the consistency category, is for making sandwich rolls and hot dog buns. 2.5 oz of dough makes a perfectly sized hamburger roll.

Many of us here use weight measurement for our baking, and would be happy to share our recipe conversions with you if you get a scale. My NYT recipe by weight is listed above, so you can get started immediately if you have a scale. The salt and yeast are easier done with measuring spoons rather than weight. Flour and liquids are the big culprits when it comes to inconsistency.

Lastly, when I get ready to bake, I cover my scale with a piece of clear plastic wrap to keep flour and/or liquids from getting inside and causing problems. 

Sorry if I hijacked the post, but I thought this might help some folks.

JoeV


----------



## sattie

JoeV said:


> I have been using $1.78/5# bag unbleached AP flour for my NYT from day #1. I made one loaf using Bob's Red Mill bread flour ($2.58/5# bag), and like you, noticed no difference in taste, texture, size, etc., so I see no reason to pay more if I'm not deriving some additional benefit for the money, regardless of how little the price difference is ($.16 difference per 1# of flour in this case, as I make my NYT bread using 1# of flour and 12.4 oz of warm water by weight).
> 
> Speaking of weight, I think a lot of problems could be resolved for bread bakers if they purchased an inexpensive digital scale, and started to convert their recipes to weight measurement rather than volume measurement. Using this method you are guaranteed repeatability which you will not get from volume measurements. I bought my scale at Target for $29.95, and it has proven to be my most valuable baking and cooking tool. I also use it as a postal scale, and for dividing meat and produce into evenly weighed portions for freezing. Its most frequent use, in the consistency category, is for making sandwich rolls and hot dog buns. 2.5 oz of dough makes a perfectly sized hamburger roll.
> 
> Many of us here use weight measurement for our baking, and would be happy to share our recipe conversions with you if you get a scale. My NYT recipe by weight is listed above, so you can get started immediately if you have a scale. The salt and yeast are easier done with measuring spoons rather than weight. Flour and liquids are the big culprits when it comes to inconsistency.
> 
> Lastly, when I get ready to bake, I cover my scale with a piece of clear plastic wrap to keep flour and/or liquids from getting inside and causing problems.
> 
> Sorry if I hijacked the post, but I thought this might help some folks.
> 
> JoeV


 
I have a scale... where is your recipe by weight?


----------



## Sedagive

JoeV said:


> I have been using $1.78/5# bag unbleached AP flour for my NYT from day #1. I made one loaf using Bob's Red Mill bread flour ($2.58/5# bag), and like you, noticed no difference in taste, texture, size, etc., so I see no reason to pay more if I'm not deriving some additional benefit for the money, regardless of how little the price difference is ($.16 difference per 1# of flour in this case, as I make my NYT bread using 1# of flour and 12.4 oz of warm water by weight).
> 
> Speaking of weight, I think a lot of problems could be resolved for bread bakers if they purchased an inexpensive digital scale, and started to convert their recipes to weight measurement rather than volume measurement. Using this method you are guaranteed repeatability which you will not get from volume measurements. I bought my scale at Target for $29.95, and it has proven to be my most valuable baking and cooking tool. I also use it as a postal scale, and for dividing meat and produce into evenly weighed portions for freezing. Its most frequent use, in the consistency category, is for making sandwich rolls and hot dog buns. 2.5 oz of dough makes a perfectly sized hamburger roll.
> 
> Many of us here use weight measurement for our baking, and would be happy to share our recipe conversions with you if you get a scale. My NYT recipe by weight is listed above, so you can get started immediately if you have a scale. The salt and yeast are easier done with measuring spoons rather than weight. Flour and liquids are the big culprits when it comes to inconsistency.
> 
> Lastly, when I get ready to bake, I cover my scale with a piece of clear plastic wrap to keep flour and/or liquids from getting inside and causing problems.
> 
> Sorry if I hijacked the post, but I thought this might help some folks.
> 
> JoeV


 

I have a scale and honestly don't know why I haven't weighed the water any of the times I've made the bread.  I'm going to start keeping track of the water weight so I will know when I hit the weight that works best for me.  Thanks for the heads up.

Sedagive.


----------



## JoeV

sattie said:


> I have a scale... where is your recipe by weight?



1# All purpose flour
1-1/2 teaspoons salt
1/4 teaspoon Instant Yeast
12.4 oz. Warm water

My flour comes out to just under one pound for 3 cups, so I have rounded it up to one pound of flour, then played with the water to get it right. I think it was 1T of additional water = .40 oz.

When using a digital scale, be sure to place your *empty* container (I use a lightweight plastic bowl for flour and plastic cup for the water) on the scale, then press the "TARE" button in order to zero out the scale. Do this with each different container that you use, as they each will weigh a different amount.

Joe


----------



## Robo410

It's a great bread recipe.  So successufl that Le Crueset has made SS knobs for their pots!


----------



## Aria

*New York Times Bread*

This bread can be baked in many other pans.

You will read about it in the original Gretchen Thread.    

I bake mine in my crock pot ceramic pot.  The different pans...different shapes.  Aria


----------



## xmascarol1

*pots to use*

I have finally settled on my favorite pot to cook this in.  My clay chicken cooker.  It's perfect, makes an oblong loaf that we like for sandwiches as well as slices for the toaster.  That along with using my thin silicone baking sheet to place it on and then leaving it on that and just lifting it into the clay pot, it's perfect, no messy counter,cloths or hands.   The only thing I could covet that might be better is one of those soapstone pots, but $100 is too much right now.


----------



## Sedagive

I've been using a round pot (left photo) to make my bread and am thinking of switching to a more oblong shaped pot (right photo). I don't know if the oblong pot is heavy enough and it is stainless. I'm hoping the oblong pot will keep the bread from spreading out and will stay more loaf shaped. Any thoughts?


----------



## babetoo

i made it putting the dough in a regular loaf pan. glass. then used a second one for the lid. it worked out well and was easy to slice.

babe


----------



## xmascarol1

Sedagive said:


> I've been using a round pot (left photo) to make my bread and am thinking of switching to a more oblong shaped pot (right photo). I don't know if the oblong pot is heavy enough and it is stainless. I'm hoping the oblong pot will keep the bread from spreading out and will stay more loaf shaped. Any thoughts?



I have found in experimenting with different pots that the clay seems to give me a better crust and a more even bake than my aluminum Dutch oven.  My cast iron Dutch oven worked really well too, but I needed that in the upstairs kitchen.


----------



## Aria

*New York Times Bread*

As mentioned in previous threads....this is the GREATEST RECIPE for making a hard crust bread.

And the pot...experiment.  It MOST cases it works.  Depending on the shape you want.  Go for it.  It is such fun.  AND anyone can make BREAD.


----------



## xmascarol1

*bread pan choices*

Even though I love this easy crusty bread, the method of cooking it in this Dutch oven is what I love.  last night I made a 2 # loaf of currant bread that had milk, a little honey , a little butter,an egg, and it was a really nice dough.  I baked it in the 450+ oven in the Dutch oven and it was lovely, with a great crust and soft on the inside , just right for the  cinnamon , and currants I had rolled up in it.  about 25 min.with the lid on was all I needed.  I'm doing all my bread recipes in the covered baking dish.


----------



## LEFSElover

subfuscpersona said:


> I find photos immensely helpful whenever I attempt an unfamiliar recipe. I've made No-Knead Bread five times now, so here are mine. If you haven't made this bread yet, I hope they'll encourage you to do so.


[SIZE=+2]
 you deserve a *BLUE RIBBON *for this post.  excellent job, job well done and much appreciated.
[/SIZE]


----------



## LEFSElover

Sedagive said:


> I've been using a round pot (left photo) to make my bread and am thinking of switching to a more oblong shaped pot (right photo). I don't know if the oblong pot is heavy enough and it is stainless. I'm hoping the oblong pot will keep the bread from spreading out and will stay more loaf shaped. Any thoughts?


this is the one I use, only mine's yellow.  this one is for sale on an auction site


----------



## quicksilver

LEFSElover said:


> [SIZE=+2]
> [SIZE=+2]you deserve a *BLUE RIBBON *for this post. excellent job, job well done and much appreciated.[/SIZE]
> [/SIZE]


 
Wow. I tried to go back to find those pics, LEFSElover. I had to go all the way back to post #79 to find the step by step you referred to. Yes, job well done, subfuscpersona. Thank you.


----------



## LEFSElover

cookbookie said:


> This recipe always  works.  great bread.
> Cook's magazine changed the recipe slighly and the result is even better than the original -
> 3 c flour1/4 teaspoon instant yeast
> 1 1/2 teaspoon salt
> 3/4 cup plus 2 Tablespoons water at room temp
> 1/4 cup plus 2 Tablespoons mild flavored lager
> 1 tablspoon  white vinegar
> the rest of the instructions are about the same
> makes a great loaf


instead of lager or beer, could I use soda water or sparkling water?  I'm allergic to beer


----------



## cookbookie

I am sure that would give the liquid you need but the flavor might not be there.  I don't think it is the sparkle that you need but the flavor.  would the alergens cook out in the oven??  if you rty the sparkling water let us know how it turns out.


----------



## LEFSElover

cookbookie said:


> I am sure that would give the liquid you need but the flavor might not be there.  I don't think it is the sparkle that you need but the flavor.  would the alergens cook out in the oven??  if you rty the sparkling water let us know how it turns out.


people always ask me that, if I cook out the beer in a fryer or bake it or cook it out wouldn't that then be okay?  Um, I'm not going to do that to find out.  The doctor never told me that it would be okay to do any of those methods.  I think the reason why=he doesn't know what about the beer I'm allergic to, only knows next time, it'll be the third time, and it'll be my last.


----------



## cookbookie

That is scary, I must say. So I would stick to the original recipe. it is so good as it is.


----------



## LadyCook61

If I want extra flavor, I just add dried herbs or spices.  Even pepperoni is good .


----------



## LEFSElover

oh and I do.  the things I've tossed in my many times of making are almost scary, but oh soooooooooo good


----------



## kitchenelf

I LOVE the pictoral aspect this site has - LOVE IT!  

No knead pizza dough and lots of good recipes...ok, back to bread.  It's now time to try this


----------



## blissful

I'll admit it, I read all the posts in this thread. I hope it is okay to bring this thread up again--old new but good news.

Started some bread yesterday morning, prepared the towel and basket and dough this morning. It's going in the oven in a half hour! 

Then, I started another loaf last night, which I want to try tonight, and I may add cheese, tomatoes, herbs (my buddy herb) from the garden, mmmmmmmm I'm so excited! 

I'll report back my progress.

The first loaf, in an oblong casserole w/cover, turned out very even, dense, nice, mmmm.
The second one I put in cheddar cheese, basil, and fresh chopped romas. The crust was harder but still good, the inside moist, dense, even. I even brought some to share at work today. MMMM, I'll make this again.


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## pacanis

I just flopped my second try at this bread in the DO. What a fiasco.
Even though I had rubbed flour into the towel and sprinkled even more on, following two sets of instructions trying to get it right this time, the bread stuck to the towel. It had soaked right into it from looking at the wetspot on the inderside. And of course all that shaking was dumping all the excess flour into the DO.... not sure what will happen there, if it will burn or not, but it smelled like it was.  Anyway, I scraped the remaining dough off the towel and through it in on top.

I'm wondering if I need a different recipe, one that isn't so "moist". I couldn't get this dough into a ball either, so the "seam side down" in the instructions once again had no bearing on the glop I've been nurturing since yesterday this time.

But, the end result is not yet here, so we'll see...


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## LadyCook61

pacanis said:


> I just flopped my second try at this bread in the DO. What a fiasco.
> Even though I had rubbed flour into the towel and sprinkled even more on, following two sets of instructions trying to get it right this time, the bread stuck to the towel. It had soaked right into it from looking at the wetspot on the inderside. And of course all that shaking was dumping all the excess flour into the DO.... not sure what will happen there, if it will burn or not, but it smelled like it was. Anyway, I scraped the remaining dough off the towel and through it in on top.
> 
> I'm wondering if I need a different recipe, one that isn't so "moist". I couldn't get this dough into a ball either, so the "seam side down" in the instructions once again had no bearing on the glop I've been nurturing since yesterday this time.
> 
> But, the end result is not yet here, so we'll see...


 
what recipe were you using ?  I've noticed there were several versions of NYT bread recipes.


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## LadyCook61

kitchenelf said:


> I LOVE the pictoral aspect this site has - LOVE IT!
> 
> No knead pizza dough and lots of good recipes...ok, back to bread. It's now time to try this


 
Go for it KE !


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## jpmcgrew

pacanis said:


> I just flopped my second try at this bread in the DO. What a fiasco.
> Even though I had rubbed flour into the towel and sprinkled even more on, following two sets of instructions trying to get it right this time, the bread stuck to the towel. It had soaked right into it from looking at the wetspot on the inderside. And of course all that shaking was dumping all the excess flour into the DO.... not sure what will happen there, if it will burn or not, but it smelled like it was. Anyway, I scraped the remaining dough off the towel and through it in on top.
> 
> I'm wondering if I need a different recipe, one that isn't so "moist". I couldn't get this dough into a ball either, so the "seam side down" in the instructions once again had no bearing on the glop I've been nurturing since yesterday this time.
> But, the end result is not yet here, so we'll see...


 

 Sounds like you need to add a little more flour to your dough.Instead of a dish towel get some parchment paper cut a square to fit in a bowl about the same size as your DO when ready just lift up paper and dough and put in DO and bake as usual


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## pacanis

LadyCook61 said:


> what recipe were you using ? I've noticed there were several versions of NYT bread recipes.


 
The one from the NYT site posted in the front of the thread.  It's just a gooky mess the whole way through, even though I get those bubbles after the first rest like I'm supposed to.

Here it is. I'm glad I only left it uncovered for 5 minutes. The brown/burnt flour you see at least brushes off. I just hope it doesn't taste burnt. The bottom is fine.


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## pacanis

Thanks jp. I DO have some parchment paper I could have used. I'm using this thing KA sold me that I used the first time, but for some reason the dough didn't stick to it the first time I tried making it.  It's called a couche or something???? Looks like brown burlap and you keep it in the freezer because of the flour that accumulates on it. They said you use it when making crusty breads.... like Italian bread.


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## jpmcgrew

Sometimes it take a bit of practice to get a feel for the dough I'm guessing its a bit humid where you live so you may need to add a bit more flour to your initial batch. Where I live its really dry usually around 20% and I always need to add more liquid to my yeast doughs.Your dough should be wet but not soupy and be able to hold its shape a little it will loosen up as it ferments. Then when you knead it add enough flour so it isn't super sticky and wet. Also double check your measurements and make sure your oven is the temp you set it by using an oven thermometer.


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## pacanis

Thanks. The last time I made it, which was the first time I made it, someone said there's a lot of room for error when I mentioned how mooky it was. Granted, it didn't taste bad... but making it is such a PITA, that I don't like to bother with it.
I will make it more "dough-like" next time so I can actually make a ball with it.

I appreciate the help jp


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## LEFSElover

just back from taking a short drive to Longs drugs in Lihue while the hub slept for a while.
jotted down their aisles there, looking for that Maui Mountain wing sauce and didn't find it there, very odd.
but did see several things I could have purchased to make my NYT bread great as in wheatberry, some sort of strange like groad oats, milled something or other, and on and on, but don't want to take  it home on the plane so didn't surrender...........


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## abecedarian

I've ordered Instant Yeast, but in the meantime, all I could find was regular active yeast..will this work alright? I can see where it might take longer; would adding an extra 1/4 tsp help keep it on the right time schedule?


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## JoeV

abecedarian said:


> I've ordered Instant Yeast, but in the meantime, all I could find was regular active yeast..will this work alright? I can see where it might take longer; would adding an extra 1/4 tsp help keep it on the right time schedule?



Sure, just use the 1/4 teaspoon. The gluten will still develop over the long fermentation process of 12-20 hours.


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## abecedarian

JoeV said:


> Sure, just use the 1/4 teaspoon. The gluten will still develop over the long fermentation process of 12-20 hours.


 

Thanks! Can you guess who's kicking herself for tossing her old crockpot liner?!? No wonder my mother hated to throw stuff away.


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## JoeV

abecedarian said:


> Thanks! Can you guess who's kicking herself for tossing her old crockpot liner?!? No wonder my mother hated to throw stuff away.



If you have a covered Corningware casserole at least 3.5 qt, that will work just fine. Let's see, I think I have a picture of that somewhere....OK, here it is:


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## abecedarian

That's what I'll do since I have several to choose from. Should be fun. Meanwhile, my Apple Pecan Cobbler is starting to smell yummy


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## abecedarian

The first batch is out and the 'good' loaf is devoured! Neither loaf rose too much, but the second one is just not too great at all. The dough was terribly sticky and was difficult to handle, so next time I'll add more flour when I take it out after the initial set time. Still tastes good.


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## sattie

WELP, What do you know????  The baking moron (me) managed to turn out a loaf of this stuff!!!  Looks pretty and tastes really good!  The only draw back was the large amount of flour caked on the loaf.  I used a clean paint brush and removed the most of it.  Definately trying this one again!


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## magic823

Made my first loaf of this yesterday. Awesome bread! It was my first loaf of bread not using a breadmaker, and it won't be my last. I used cornmeal on the towels and didn't have a sticking problem and the roasted cornmeal looks great on the bread.


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## JoeV

magic823 said:


> Made my first loaf of this yesterday. Awesome bread! It was my first loaf of bread not using a breadmaker, and it won't be my last. I used cornmeal on the towels and didn't have a sticking problem and the roasted cornmeal looks great on the bread.


Welcome to the addiction!


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## bethzaring

sattie said:


> WELP, What do you know???? The baking moron (me) managed to turn out a loaf of this stuff!!! Looks pretty and tastes really good! The only draw back was the large amount of flour caked on the loaf. I used a clean paint brush and removed the most of it. Definately trying this one again!


 
way to go sattie, what a baker you are!!

Dh loves the flour caked on the bottom, he thinks it is icing...for me, i take the bread knife and scrap it off!


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## Wyogal

I've enjoyed reading these posts... I started a loaf last night, am about to turn it out and shape it, will bake it in a couple of hours. I'll let you know how it goes. It does seem a little wet right now, will add a bit more flour as I turn it out.


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## Wyogal

Man, oh man, oh, man! This bread turned out as I hoped! Chewy exterior, similar to an "artisan" bread that I get at a local grocery store for $2.99-$3.99, but even better! Amazing. I've got to go wash the bowl now in order to get tomorrow's bread started!


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## Katie H

Wyogal said:


> Man, oh man, oh, man! This bread turned out as I hoped! Chewy exterior, similar to an "artisan" bread that I get at a local grocery store for $2.99-$3.99, but even better! Amazing. I've got to go wash the bowl now in order to get tomorrow's bread started!



Gotcha!  Now you're hooked.  NYT bread is awesome.  Make some with roasted garlic and chopped fresh rosemary.  The loaf will vaporize.


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## Wyogal

Here are some pics, actually, trying to figure out how to post pics...


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## Katie H

Excellent job.  I can almost taste it.  Now I need to make some for myself.  It's delicious for grilled cheese sandwiches.  Swiss cheese and Black Forest ham is my favorite.


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## Wyogal

We like to use this type of bread for French toast.
It would be good for mufaletta (sp?), too, I imagine. or cheese fondue, or as a butter delivery agent... bread of choice for just about anything but a tea sandwich.


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## Katie H

Yep, it's good for everything you've mentioned but, as you surmised, not tea sandwiches.  A little too hearty/coarse for those delicate munchies.


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## JoeV

WOW! I didn't know you could make NYT bread in Wyoming. Just kidding. Beautiful loaf, I'm sure this is just the beginning of long relationship with this bread. Next we'll be hearing about all the stuff you'll start adding to your dough; dried fruit, seeds, nuts, cereals, cheeses....


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