# Can anyone explain why we need Daylight Saving Time?



## cave76 (Mar 9, 2014)

Historical reasons?
Why was it started? 
Why do we continue with it IF there was a real reason for it?

I've read the history of it on the Internet but am still confused as to exactly WHY we still need it and still confused as why it was even started.

There are tales about DST being implemented in far history----- I'm talking about the DST that was started during our lifetime (or was already a fact of life for those who weren't born then.)

Here is one reason given:

"DST was first adopted to replace artificial lighting so they could save fuel for the war effort in Germany during World War I"

But---- but--- but----- wouldn't that just change the times when the home front used fuel, not reduce it? IOW----- use fuel in the A.M. vs the P.M. What am I missing? 

Mother Nature still demanded the same amount of daylight for each latitude and could NOT be persuaded to change that. 

O.K. please feel free to Fisk my post. 

Fisking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 9, 2014)

We don't need it.  It is silly and stupid.  Pick a time, I will go into work at the correct time and leave on time.  If I have to use headlights in the morning or going home it doesn't matter.  Living in a basement, I have to open curtains to see if it's light or dark outside.  It's light inside because I am home.


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## Andy M. (Mar 9, 2014)

I like it.  I'd rather have daylight in the evening than in the morning when I'm either asleep or going to work.

I've never been bothered by it.  I don't find it that difficult to deal with.  Change clocks and your done.  

Besides, it's one of the harbingers of Spring and that makes me happy.


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## cave76 (Mar 9, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> I like it.  I'd rather have daylight in the evening than in the morning when I'm either asleep or going to work.
> 
> I've never been bothered by it.  I don't find it that difficult to deal with.  Change clocks and your done.
> 
> Besides, it's one of the harbingers of Spring and that makes me happy.



Glad you like it. But do you think that there's a REAL reason for it?

 I always thought Robins were the natural harbingers of Spring. Do they go by DST?


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## cave76 (Mar 9, 2014)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> If I have to use headlights in the morning or going home it doesn't matter.



That's exactly what I mean!


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## CWS4322 (Mar 9, 2014)

I always thought DST was to benefit farmers. Delving deeper, I see it hinged more on s/one's love for golf than the need to harvest crops, and then to conserve coal during WWI. It was the US's 2005 Energy Policy Act that moved it so that we have DST from mid-March to November (although, here in Ontario, I seem to recall some argument about safety and school buses when it was proposed DST would align with the that in the US).


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## Andy M. (Mar 9, 2014)

cave76 said:


> Glad you like it. But do you think that there's a REAL reason for it?
> 
> I always thought Robins were the natural harbingers of Spring. Do they go by DST?




I said it was ONE OF the harbingers.  So is the start of baseball, crocus buds beginning to grow, robins, etc.  

I think DST started for real reasons and has become institutionalized.  

Do you dislike summer evenings being light longer?


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## cave76 (Mar 9, 2014)

CWS4322 said:


> I always thought DST was to benefit farmers. Delving deeper, I see it hinged more on s/one's love for golf than the need to harvest crops, and then to conserve coal during WWI.



Could you give the link to the article where you 'delved deeper'?

Golfing aside-----there is still no way Mother Nature is going to give us more or less sunshine.

70s Mother Nature *Chiffon* Margarine Commercial - YouTube


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## Steve Kroll (Mar 9, 2014)

I like having more light in the evening as well. It's bad enough having to work in an office all day. When I get home at night, I enjoy spending as much time as I can putzing around outside before it gets dark.

When I was a kid, my parents used to tell me "make sure you are home before dark". DST was the difference between darkness coming at 9:30 vs. 8:30.

As for there being a "real reason", I don't really know. It's said that it was created for farmers, but I don't believe crops or chickens can read clocks.


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## Katie H (Mar 9, 2014)

Just to provide some humor and some information, cave76, read the following excerpt from a column I wrote in November 2002.  It will give you some insight into the whole Daylight Saving Time issue:

 Well, it happened.  In the wee hours of Sunday, October 27th Daylight Saving Time ended for this year.  This means the hour that was snatched from us last spring was stealthily returned.  That’s 60 minutes, 3,600 seconds.  Impressive, huh?  What are you going to do/did you do with all that time?  And, what _is_ time, by the way?  The _Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary_ says it’s “the measured or measurable period during which an action, process or condition exists or continues.” Fair enough definition and understandable.  I especially comprehend the “measuring” part but, sometimes I would like to measure _my_ time using a, ahem, fisherman’s ruler because I always seem to have more to do than the time allotted allows.

  Back to that wonderful gift of 60 minutes.  I gave some thought to what I would do with this found time and came up with some ideas.  I could spend the time playing Klondike solitaire on the computer, but that would be _wasting_ time.  I could scrub the kitchen and/or bathroom floors, but that would be _doing_ time.  I’m only given this hour once a year, so I should be sure to use it wisely and not squander it.  But it’s only _one_ hour.  That’s right, but just think how long an hour seems when you are sitting in the dentist’s chair with his hands in you mouth.  It seems like a week, doesn’t it?  So all I need to do is to come up with something pleasant and, with some luck, productive to use up my hour, as well as something that will also make that hour feel as though it is a week long.  So far, nothing’s come to mind and I don’t have a dental appointment and, thankfully, can rule out spending my hour there.  I’ll have to give it more thought.  I’ll think about something else that relates to time, such as some of the phrases we utter.

  Time is money.  You’ve heard that saying.  I suppose I could use my hour to earn some money.  I think I should aspire to an hourly rate of about $500.  That would really make my hour, uh, count.

  Time flies.  I’ve looked in all the phone books and searched the Internet and even checked with all sorts of travel agencies, but none of these searches resulted in any airline called _Time Airline_ so I have my doubts that time actually flies.  And, if it does, I would bet it would not be on time.  Then again, I wonder how far I would get in an hour on the Concorde.  Hummm!

  Time waits for no man.  There’s another familiar adage.  I’m safe here.  I’m a woman.

  I’d better quit before things really turn silly and get to today’s point – Daylight Saving Time or is it Daylight Saving*s* Time?  I’ve wondered which is the correct way of saying it.  Calendars are undependable.  I’ve seen it printed both ways on them.  Asking various people resulted in confusion and disagreement.  For some reason this bothered me and my ever-present curiosity surfaced and I had other questions about this transfer of time twice a year.  So what did I do?  I went to the library.  To the Internet, too.  And I learned some interesting things, interesting to me, about the subject.  I’ll share them with you.

  I was surprised to learn that Benjamin Franklin was the first to conceive of the idea while he was an American delegate in Paris in 1784.  I don’t know if that was before or after his little the kite-key-lightning encounter, but Ben proved to be full of good ideas during his lifetime.

  In 1907, a London builder came up with a scheme to move clocks forward 20 minutes in four consecutive Sundays in April, because he’d noticed that during his early morning rides through the countryside, many of the homes he passed still had their blinds closed, even after the sun had been up for some while.  I can’t imagine his system catching on because it seemed awkward, at the least.  Considering how we handle things today, I think his plan met with “underwhelming” acceptance.

  However, before any kind of time saving could be implemented, _standard time_ had to be established - the _zone_ system we’re all familiar with.  Standard time, with its four zones, was instituted in the United States at noon on November 18, 1883 – almost exactly 100 years after Ben Franklin came up with the idea for “saving” time.  However, it was many years before standard time became commonly used and, as it became apparent, standardized time was practical for travel - mostly by train in those days - and for communication – telegraph and telephone.  As for the four time zone boundaries, they have changed greatly from the original ones and some changes still occasionally occur and are usually due to “convenience of commerce.”

  Daylight Saving Time is not a new concept and it was used in the United States and a number of European countries during World War II, primarily to save fuel for the production of electricity, but even up to the 1960s, it was inconsistently used in our country.  By 1966, the disagreements between the proponents and opponents of the system came to a head and the bitter fight between indoor and outdoor theater owners and others finally culminated and the Uniform Time Act of 1966 was signed into law by President Lyndon Johnson.  This officially designated that Daylight Saving Time would begin on the last Sunday in April and end on the last Sunday of October.  States that wished not to participate simply had to pass their own State laws to do so.

  In 1972, Congress revised the 1966 law to make it easier for states that contained two or more time zones to observe Daylight Saving Time – each zone in the state only had to observe the Daylight Saving Time consistent to its correct time zone.  In other words, each zone had to agree to Daylight Saving Time appropriate to its individual zone.  The only other change to the law, to date, was made by President Ronald Reagan when he signed Public Law 99-359, which changed the beginning of Daylight Saving Time to the _first_ Sunday in April instead of the _last_ Sunday.  There has been no change to the October ending date.

  In our great 50 states, there are three states that do not go from daylight to standard time each year – Indiana, Arizona and Hawaii.  However, confusingly so, 15 counties in Indiana observe a mixed bag of Eastern Standard Time, Central Standard and Central Daylight Time, and Eastern Standard and Eastern Daylight Time during the April-October Daylight Saving Time period.  Comfuzzled, yet?  I am.  I’m not going there.  Indiana, too, that is.

  Some 70 of Europe’s countries observe Daylight Saving Time, with many countries such as Russia customizing it to its high latitude situations in order to maximize the use of daylight.  Remember “Dr. Zhivago?”
  Countries in the Southern Hemisphere implement Daylight Saving Time from October to March because their summer occurs in December.  This paragraph might be especially important to remember for those of us who live in the cold north and northwest of the United States and in our New England states, as well, because December and January weather is not exactly kind to us.

  Countries in the tropics or near the Equator have no need to observe Daylight Saving Time because daylight is nearly equal for every season.  Minnesota and Vermont residents, doesn’t this seem appealing when the snow is up to your all-American ears in the winter?

  Now, by now, you have probably noticed I have consistently used “Daylight Saving Time” in my discussion.  That’s because it is the official spelling.  To quote, “_Saving_ is used here as a verbal adjective (a participle).  It modifies _time_ and tells us more about its nature; namely, that it is characterized by the activity of saving daylight.  It is a _saving daylight_ kind of time.  Similar examples would be _dog walking time_ or _book reading time_.  Since _saving_ is a verb describing a single type of activity, the form is singular.”  Message received and understood.  Now I won’t have to consult newspapers and calendars.  Hooray!

  I think it’s fascinating how a simple point of curiosity can lead one down a somewhat circuitous and, to me, interesting road.  All I initially _really_ wanted to know was, is “Saving” _with_ or with_out_ an s and what I would do with my recovered hour.  I did learn about the s or no s thing, but I also discovered that Ben Franklin was w-a-a-a-y ahead of his time, that I don’t think I want to live in Indiana, and Brazil might be a nice place to spend New Year’s Eve.  And isn’t Daylight Saving Time like sunflowers – they turn their heads to follow the sun.  Or, from a cartoon I have saved from too many years ago, just cut one end of the blanket and sew it to the other end – well, I think you get the idea.  Oh, by the way, the “blanket cartoon” I mentioned above - it’s pasted in a book I call my _Smile Book_, a compilation of silly, goofy, funny, cartoons and disastrous newspaper articles I refer to to make me _smile._  Maybe I’ll share that with you someday.

  Oh, in case you are interested, next year you will have to _spring forward_ on April 6th and _fall back_ on October 27th.  I always get a calendar for Christmas, so now I can put these two dates on it along with all the necessary birthdays and anniversaries.

P.S.  I think I know how I used my “bonus” hour – writing this column!  I hope it wasn’t a waste.


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## pacanis (Mar 9, 2014)

I don't like it. 
It was already staying light longer in the evenings. And starting to get light earlier in the mornings. Changing back and forth twice a year disrupts the natural *easing* into things.
And of course our pets and animals don't know it's not time to eat yet. I had to take Kimber out twice this morning to "go". My 5:00 was her 4:00 and she wasn't ready yet apparently.
I hate DST. It's like experiencing jet lag twice a year. It messes with everyone's timing.


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## mmyap (Mar 9, 2014)

We don't do DST in Hawaii but alarm clocks often have it built into the system.  Twice a year we either get woken up too early or too late if we don't remember ahead of time.  Lots of fun to wake up an hour late for work.


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## taxlady (Mar 9, 2014)

pacanis said:


> I don't like it.
> It was already staying light longer in the evenings. And starting to get light earlier in the mornings. Changing back and forth twice a year disrupts the natural *easing* into things.
> And of course our pets and animals don't know it's not time to eat yet. I had to take Kimber out twice this morning to "go". My 5:00 was her 4:00 and she wasn't ready yet apparently.
> I hate DST. It's like experiencing jet lag twice a year. It messes with everyone's timing.


I agree.

Over the years I have heard it was for the farmers. But, when asked, most farmers think it's for the city folk.


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## Roll_Bones (Mar 9, 2014)

Its stupid and is backwards at best.

We needed this extra light during the winter.  Not in the summer when we already have extra light and do not need to touch a clock.

It is stupid and someone has to be making money from this, as its only money that could make a bird fly backwards.


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## cave76 (Mar 9, 2014)

Very clever, Katy! (Your Post # 10) And a lot of historical/hysterical information in it too!

But, WAH WAH WAH ---- I don't like it!!!! That trumps all the good reasons for having it in my life!


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## roadfix (Mar 9, 2014)

Just be glad we're not in China.  Forget daylight savings, they have only 1 time zone across the entire country.


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## cave76 (Mar 9, 2014)

Roll_Bones said:


> Its stupid and is backwards at best.
> 
> We needed this extra light during the winter.  Not in the summer when we already have extra light and do not need to touch a clock.
> 
> It is stupid and someone has to be making money from this, as its only money that could make a bird fly backwards.




I always look for 'who benefits' when something is passed into law. Many laws make sense (stop signs for just one instance). But this one???? No.

Don't tell me I have to search back in the archives of .gov to see who lobbied for this! The domain .gov is SO cumbersome that it might take me years.


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## Katie H (Mar 9, 2014)

Well, you did ask for why it was started and some historical information, which is why I posted what I did.  However, liking or not liking it is to each his own.  I'm not wild about it either but...

Your question did provide me with a bit of a hunting expedition to find my column in my archives.


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## cave76 (Mar 9, 2014)

roadfix said:


> *Just be glad we're not in China.*  Forget daylight savings, they have only 1 time zone across the entire country.



Just ONE? I'd have to try to figure out if that's a good thing or not.

I'm glad I'm not living in China (although the idea does appeal to me.) Have you SEEN the smog there???


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## roadfix (Mar 9, 2014)

cave76 said:


> Just ONE? I'd have to try to figure out if that's a good thing or not.


Just imagine the entire Continental US observing Washington DC time.


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## cave76 (Mar 9, 2014)

roadfix said:


> Just imagine the entire Continental US observing Washington DC time.



I'm trying!  Maybe a question for Doctor Who. Or someone who can get Medical Marijuana.


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## Dawgluver (Mar 9, 2014)

cave76 said:


> I'm trying!  Maybe a question for Doctor Who. Or someone who can get Medical Marijuana.



Different kind of smog.


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## cave76 (Mar 9, 2014)

Dawgluver said:


> Different kind of smog.



Giggle.


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## cave76 (Mar 9, 2014)

Toronto Mayor Ford tweeted, "Daylight Saving Time starts this evening, turn your clocks back and change batteries in smoke alarms."

To his credit he corrected that a few minutes later after people reminded him.


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## Dawgluver (Mar 9, 2014)

cave76 said:


> Toronto Mayor Ford tweeted, "Daylight Saving Time starts this evening, turn your clocks back and change batteries in smoke alarms."
> 
> To his credit he corrected that a few minutes later after people reminded him.



LOL!!  Yup, he needs a smoke alarm....


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## jennyema (Mar 9, 2014)

cave76 said:


> I always look for 'who benefits' when something is passed into law. Many laws make sense (stop signs for just one instance). But this one???? No.
> 
> Don't tell me I have to search back in the archives of .gov to see who lobbied for this! The domain .gov is SO cumbersome that it might take me years.



One of the top lobbyists for DLST full time is Kingsford Charcoal.  I was at a presentation they made on this awhile back and it was impressive .


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## Andy M. (Mar 9, 2014)

jennyema said:


> One of the top lobbyists for DLST full time is Kingsford Charcoal.  I was at a presentation they made on this awhile back and it was impressive .



No doubt with the full support of Weber and the pork industry.


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## roadfix (Mar 9, 2014)

I would think that any industry geared to the outdoor activity would be in favor of keeping DST indefinitely.


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## pacanis (Mar 9, 2014)

Have you seen the price on a bag of Kingsford lately? Yowza.


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## Whiskadoodle (Mar 9, 2014)

pacanis said:


> Have you seen the price on a bag of Kingsford lately? Yowza.



Sadly,  I have not had occasion to use much charcoal in Months,  and would love the opportunity.


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## roadfix (Mar 9, 2014)

The best time to stock up on Kingsford charcoal are during the major spring and summer holidays.   They're usually close to half off on sale at most big box stores.
I think I still have about 80 lbs worth left in the garage from last summer's sale from Home Depot.


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## pacanis (Mar 9, 2014)

Whiskadoodle said:


> Sadly, I have not had occasion to use much charcoal in Months, and would love the opportunity.


 
It was close to 15 bucks for an 18 lb bag.


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## pacanis (Mar 9, 2014)

roadfix said:


> The best time to stock up on Kingsford charcoal are during the major spring and summer holidays. They're usually close to half off on sale at most big box stores.
> I think I still have about 80 lbs worth left in the garage from last summer's sale from Home Depot.


 
I wouldn't mind a heads up on that again.


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## Oldvine (Mar 9, 2014)

I believe the golf story.  Farmers work when the sun is out not when the clock tells them it's time to work.  However grape farmers sometimes work during the night....  Sulfuring, machine picking and irrigation are night time jobs.


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## Whiskadoodle (Mar 9, 2014)

Fool me once.  Almost.   The little girls came around all yowly and lovey early  mid afternoon like clock work.   Feed me, I'm s t a r v i n g.    I looke at the clock. it said 430.  I said you're late today,   even by their regular standards which can begin around noon and anytime thereafter.   I thought they forgot,  until I realized that just yesterday that would have been 330.  Not that they need food by any clock.   It's just if I feed them early, they will be back much sooner for more.  .   

 It's funny. If I go away for a weekend and portion out dry food / day with an extra scoop for whatever,  they only eat their daily amount.  Yet they somehow think they can finagle an extra serving from dad anytime they feel like it.


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## cave76 (Mar 10, 2014)

jennyema said:


> One of the top lobbyists for DLST full time is Kingsford Charcoal.  I was at a presentation they made on this awhile back and it was impressive .



That's interesting, to say the least. Makes sense that they would like more sun time in the evening for using their product.

How was it 'impressive"?


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## Whiskadoodle (Mar 10, 2014)

Well duh.   You get more daylight hours later in the day when it is Warmer and that helps melt the snow Faster.


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## jennyema (Mar 10, 2014)

cave76 said:


> That's interesting, to say the least. Makes sense that they would like more sun time in the evening for using their product.
> 
> How was it 'impressive"?


 
It was their #1 legislative priority back then and I just recall that their presentation about it was impressive.  But it didn't work!


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## CarolPa (Mar 10, 2014)

I always heard it was so the farmers could stay out in their fields longer.  There aren't many farmers like there used to be.  When I was a kid I liked staying out playing longer.  Now that I'm old, I go to bed early and want it to be dark.  I do not spend a lot of time outdoors because of allergies.  As soon as things start blooming my nose starts to run and my eyes start to water.  Maybe it's my imagination, but I'm tired all the time during Daylight Saving Time.


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## cave76 (Mar 10, 2014)

jennyema said:


> It was their #1 legislative priority back then and I just recall that their presentation about it was impressive.  But it didn't work!



Thank you.


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## CarolPa (Mar 10, 2014)

jennyema said:


> It was their #1 legislative priority back then and I just recall that their presentation about it was impressive.  But it didn't work!




So you're saying all these years later the government still can't get it right?


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## cave76 (Mar 10, 2014)

CarolPa said:


> So you're saying all these years later the government still can't get it right?


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## Roll_Bones (Mar 10, 2014)

cave76 said:


> I always look for 'who benefits' when something is passed into law. Many laws make sense (stop signs for just one instance). But this one???? No.
> 
> Don't tell me I have to search back in the archives of .gov to see who lobbied for this! The domain .gov is SO cumbersome that it might take me years.



Don't bother as its not that important. Just stop with knowing its stupid and backwards.
I am serious about backwards. So serious, I would approve of daylight savings time in the winter when we actually could use a another hour or two of sunlight in the evening.
Seems someone had a good idea, but someone else that was not to bright did the scheduling.



roadfix said:


> Just imagine the entire Continental US observing Washington DC time.



I can see one HUGE advantage.  My friends in CA would not have to get up at 9 am on Sunday morning to watch a NFL football game on TV.  The first NFL game each Sunday starts at 10 am on the west coast. 
And the first college game would come on at 9:30 on Saturdays.


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## Mad Cook (Mar 10, 2014)

cave76 said:


> Historical reasons?
> Why was it started?
> Why do we continue with it IF there was a real reason for it?
> 
> ...


DST during the Great War meant a longer working day for agricultural and other outdoor workers and, in theory, less use of gas and electricity for lighting homes and shops and office premises. It was introduced in the UK in 1916 with the Summer Time Act. 

British Summer Time continued after the war until the second world war, when in 1940 it was decided to keep British Summer Time (one hour in advance of Greenwich Mean Time) in the winter and "Double Summertime" (ie two hours in front of GMT) for the duration of the war.

There was an attempt to re-instate this between 1968-71 but it wasn't popular and Parliament decided by a huge majority to abandon it. Greenwich Meantime +1 in the northern parts of Britain and Ireland meant that, for a substantial part of the winter, sunrise was as late as 10am and sunset was also very early. We lived in the north of England and our days were very short during the '68-'71 experiment and my father was told, off the record, by a local policeman that the dark mornings and dark afternoons had coincided with an increase in non-domestic child molestation offences. 

One of the excuses currently used to support a return to GMT+1 is that the number of road accident fatalities fell during the 1968-71 experiment. However, the figures were skewed as the change to GMT+1 coincided with the introduction of more stringent drinking and driving legislation.


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## Mad Cook (Mar 10, 2014)

roadfix said:


> The best time to stock up on Kingsford charcoal are during the major spring and summer holidays. They're usually close to half off on sale at most big box stores.
> I think I still have about 80 lbs worth left in the garage from last summer's sale from Home Depot.


How odd. You'd think it would be cheaper in winter when fewer people have BBQs.


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## cave76 (Mar 10, 2014)

Roll_Bones said:


> Don't bother as its not that important.



Sorry, I can't not bother. 

"I have to understand the world, you see."
~ Richard Feynman

Although I don't even have a scintilla of his brain power, I still have to try. That's both my curse and my _raison d'etre_.


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## cave76 (Mar 10, 2014)

Mad Cook said:


> DST during the Great War meant a longer working day for agricultural and other outdoor workers and, in theory, less use of gas and electricity for lighting homes and shops and office premises.



But---- but----but----- that just shifted daylight to the evening. Still 24 hours in a day, I believe.


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## Andy M. (Mar 10, 2014)

cave76 said:


> But---- but----but----- that just shifted daylight to the evening. Still 24 hours in a day, I believe.




Still 24 hours in a day and there is no change in the number of daylight hours in a day.  However, with DST, when you get home from a long day of work in support of the war effort, there was daylight for you to do your housework so you didn't have to burn fuel that was in short supply.


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## roadfix (Mar 10, 2014)

Mad Cook said:


> How odd. You'd think it would be cheaper in winter when fewer people have BBQs.


Many retailers will reduce prices in the fall just to get rid of their charcoal inventory.


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef (Mar 10, 2014)

If you don't want DST, move to Arizona. Just remember that you not only get the same time all year long, you also get the unholy trinity of Joe Arpaio, Jan Brewer, and John McCain!


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## cave76 (Mar 10, 2014)

Sir_Loin_of_Beef said:


> If you don't want DST, move to Arizona. Just remember that you not only get the same time all year long, you also get the unholy trinity of Joe Arpaio, Jan Brewer, and John McCain!



But I LIKE pink underwear!


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## CarolPa (Mar 10, 2014)

Sir_Loin_of_Beef said:


> If you don't want DST, move to Arizona. Just remember that you not only get the same time all year long, you also get the unholy trinity of Joe Arpaio, Jan Brewer, and John McCain!




And that ungodly heat in the summer!  Oh, that's right.  It's DRY heat.


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## Roll_Bones (Mar 11, 2014)

cave76 said:


> Sorry, I can't not bother.
> 
> "I have to understand the world, you see."
> ~ Richard Feynman
> ...



Same here. I have the "must know" gene I guess.


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## dcSaute (Mar 11, 2014)

Andy nailed it in post #3

in summer the days are longer - the sun comes up earlier, sets later.
but, "sooner daylight" is of no benefit when humans are still sleeping.

if you get up at 05:30 everyday of the year, you'll likely notice that it's still dark when you get up in the winter, but it's light when you get up at the "same time" in the summer.

daylight savings time simply "time shifts" the clock measured period of human activity to "earlier in the sunlight / solar day" so there is a longer period of more light "after working hours" - with plenty of fudging for "second shift war-time workers" still having light when they came to work, etc. etc.

as such:  if one "assumes" the human is destined to "start work" one hour after the sun comes up:
in the winter the human would start work at roughly 0800.
in the summer the sun rises a lot earlier, now the human needs to start work 0700, because the set rises 'sooner'

so, if one "magically" makes 0700 = 0800 via daylight savings time, 
nobody needs to change the sign on the door that says Open at:

otherwise put, one has extra daylight time for after work activities - working in the victory garden, butchering a rabbit, etc, that other wise would have to be done by "artificial light"

the day is roughly 9.5 hours long in winter, 15 hours long in summer (latitude dependent....)
do you want one, two, three hours of "light left" after work?

has little to do with farmers; they get up at dawn and work until the light go out, anyway.

in WW2, had a lot to do with "at home" electric consumption "after hours" - did not affect "factories" all that much because factories were running 24x7.  the manufacturing floor had to be lit x hours/day regardless of whether it was first/second/graveyard shift working.


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## roadfix (Mar 11, 2014)

But I physically feel lagged for a few days following every 'spring forward' time change.   I know it's all mental...


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## cave76 (Mar 12, 2014)

dcSaute said:


> Andy nailed it in post #3



O.K.--- then why not have it all year round?


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## Andy M. (Mar 12, 2014)

cave76 said:


> O.K.--- then why not have it all year round?




With less daylight in the winter months, mornings would be dark much later.  For one thing, children would be waiting at school bus stops in the dark.


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## cave76 (Mar 12, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> With less daylight in the winter months, mornings would be dark much later.  For one thing, children would be waiting at school bus stops in the dark.



So, then, it's mostly for the children's sake? That makes sense.


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## Andy M. (Mar 12, 2014)

cave76 said:


> So, then, it's mostly for the children's sake? That makes sense.



That's part of it.  It's a reason I hear regularly.


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## cave76 (Mar 12, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> That's part of it.  It's a reason I hear regularly.



I'd like to hear more reasons. Yeah, I could read all the other posts------


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## Roll_Bones (Mar 12, 2014)

I will say it again.  It is stupid and backwards.

I could agree if they tried to save daylight in the winter.
But to try and add a couple hours of sunlight to an already longer summer day is stupid and backwards.

I see no reason for it. Standard time as it is, does the daylight savings for you, without having to screw up everyones internal clock.
There is no reason to ever turn a clock backwards or forwards.

Nature has already done this for us with more light in the summer.  Why must we as humans always try and manipulate whats perfect already?

The time should have stayed like it was.  We would still have extra light in the evenings without having to touch a clock.


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## Andy M. (Mar 12, 2014)

cave76 said:


> I'd like to hear more reasons. Yeah, I could read all the other posts------




Frankly, I consider DST a non-event.  It's been happening twice a year, every year since you and I and every one else here has been born and will continue long after we are all gone.  I don't understand the emotional objections to it. 

I don't mean this comment to be nasty.  Just to clarify my position.


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## roadfix (Mar 12, 2014)

Roll_Bones said:


> I will say it again.  It is stupid and backwards.
> 
> I could agree if they tried to save daylight in the winter.
> But to try and add a couple hours of sunlight to an already longer summer day is stupid and backwards.
> ...




  I totally agree with this, except the part about saving daylight during winter.  The mornings will stay darker longer.  Keep standard time year round.


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## cave76 (Mar 12, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> Frankly, I consider DST a non-event.  It's been happening twice a year, every year since you and I and every one else here has been born and will continue long after we are all gone.  I don't understand the emotional objections to it.
> 
> I don't mean this comment to be nasty.  Just to clarify my position.



Oh, I certainly don't take it as 'nasty'. But my questions are Socratic and not emotional.


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## CharlieD (Mar 12, 2014)

It does save money in the long run. Personally I still do not like it even though it only bothers me the first day of spring, when I have to wake up early. No such problem in the Fall, when I technically get to sleep late.


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## dcSaute (Mar 12, 2014)

cave76 said:


> O.K.--- then why not have it all year round?



long shaggy dog story follows.

"standard time" is based on the solar day.  and, although on a given longtitude (the east-west bit) the sun rises/sets at different "clock" times depending on latitude (the north-south bit) - up to the extremes of the polar regions where the sun never sets/never rises comma by season.

"clock time" is however not established by sunrise/sunset - because that varies by latitude - but rather by the "time" when the sun is highest in the sky.

"noon" - 12PM - 1200, pick a notational convention....  the instant the sun is highest in the sky, regardless of latitude, is the same.  meaning that "clock time" is not 'established' by sunrise/sunset, but rather when "noon" happens.

 so comma comma, the earth rotates once per day, which is defined as 24 hours (why 24?....)    360 degrees around the earth, divided by 24,,, for every 15 degrees of longitude you travel away from the "Prime Meridian" - which is by convention defined to be Greenwich, UK - "noon" occurs one hour sooner - to the east - or one hour later - to the west.

since the sun's highest point in the sky establishes noon,  8AM happens at 4*60=240 minutes before noon.  when the sun rises plays no part.

 in an agrarian society, nobody gave a hoot.  you got up with the sun and quit when it got dark.  and what you did when on your farm was unaffected by any external influences. 

 This “works” until "civilization" occurs - that means that whole groups of people need to 'cooperate' in some fashion - and cooperating on a 'time schedule' had positive effects vs. "I'll be there when I get around to it."  Civilization leads to urbanization, enter the industrial age, creates a huge need for ‘doing things on a time table.

So if the human needs six hours of “sleep” per day, that leaves the human with 18 hours of ‘doing’ something else – and when ‘something else’ was not playing video games, the question of ‘is it dark yet?” comes into play.

(again depending on latitude, but for mid-Atlantic / mid-Mediterranean….) the shortest day (the December winter solstice) is roughly 9 hours, the longest day (June – the summer solstice) 15 hours. 

So in the winter, accommodating 18 hours of human activity to occur only during daylight hours is not going to work any which way. 

In the summer one can artificially “start the day earlier” so that there is more daylight left at the end of the day.  Which is not important if the ‘after hours activity’ is video games and internet forums – but there is a measurable portion of the population who do have other things to do.  For them, they still get up with the sun.  what “time” is indicated on the watch is actually of no importance. 

So, as you can conclude, with a (shortest) day length of 9.5 hours, calculating from noon backwards, sun light appears at 1200-4.5 hours = 0730 by the solar clock. 

However at the longest day of 15 hours, sunlight appears at 1200-7.5 hours=0430 by the solar clock.  So iffin’ the human spends 0430 to 0700 sleeping abed, the civilized/urbanized human has “wasted” 2.5 hours of daylight.  Explains the “savings” part of “Daylight Savings Time” 

Could daylight savings time be used “year round?”  yes.  
Benefit would be:________

Keep in mind the whole kit and caboodle is based on “conventions” – not only the 24 hours/per + 60 minutes/hour thing, but stuff like “the work day.”  In USA eight hours is the norm – 40 hours / week.  This is not the case in multiple many European countries.  China is a whole ‘nother issue.

And keep in mind the execution/implementation of Daylight Savings Time is done at the whim and idiotic rationale of politicians / governments.  If you google the history of DST in the USA you’ll find it changes, right regular.  Do you think the orbit of the earth or the tilt of the earth’s axis has changed?  No, some “think tank” comes up with mysterious “benefits” which requires a “change” 

And some local government have opted out of DST – the whole state of Arizona if memory serves; plus quite a number of cites/communities/counties/whatever in the mid-west. 

There’s more!  In the 70’s-80-90’s when I had a lot of European business dealings, the USA, continental Europe and UK all went on and/or off daylight savings time on different dates.  Keeping track of “are they in the office yet / still?” was a real pita.


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## roadfix (Mar 12, 2014)

If we all lived in Anchorage we won't be having these discussions....)


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## Roll_Bones (Mar 13, 2014)

roadfix said:


> I totally agree with this, except the part about saving daylight during winter.  The mornings will stay darker longer.  Keep standard time year round.



Then we agree.  I feel like you do.

My point was *IF *DST was required, better it be used in the winter than in the summer.


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## cave76 (Mar 13, 2014)

I found the problem!

dcSaute said, hidden in all the interesting verbiage:

*"that means that whole groups of people need to 'cooperate' in some fashion"  
*

Well, problem solved because it's never going to be solved!!


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## roadfix (Mar 13, 2014)

Roll_Bones said:


> Then we agree.  I feel like you do.
> 
> My point was *IF *DST was required, better it be used in the winter than in the summer.


Oh I got it and I agree on that point too.


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## CatPat (Mar 13, 2014)

I don't know. I do know I had one less hour with DA.

With love,
~Cat


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef (Mar 19, 2014)

CarolPa said:


> And that ungodly heat in the summer! Oh, that's right. It's DRY heat.


 
Just like the inside of my oven!


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## cave76 (Mar 29, 2014)

Just in:

" (Reuters) - Switching over to daylight saving time, and losing one hour of sleep, raised the risk of having a heart attack the following Monday by 25 percent, compared to other Mondays during the year, according to a new U.S. study released on Saturday.

By contrast, heart attack risk fell 21 percent later in the year, on the Tuesday after the clock was returned to standard time, and people got an extra hour's sleep." 
*
It's not nice to fool Mother Nature. *

Daylight saving time linked to heart attacks: study | Reuters

[just in case people think I actually believe this, rest assured, I take it with a grain of salt. But it is interesting.]


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 29, 2014)

And I had my heart attack on a Saturday...in January...I should have waited until later in the year so I could be in the observational study!  LOL!!


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## cave76 (Mar 29, 2014)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> And I had my heart attack on a Saturday...in January...I should have waited until later in the year so I could be in the observational study!  LOL!!



Too bad! (about your heart attack and not waiting!). You coulda  had your 15 minutes!


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 29, 2014)

cave76 said:


> Too bad! (about your heart attack and not waiting!). You coulda  had your 15 minutes!



Everything was so Atypical, they wouldn't have wanted me anyway, I would have skewed their numbers.


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## Andy M. (Mar 29, 2014)

cave76 said:


> Just in:
> 
> " (Reuters) - Switching over to daylight saving time, *and losing one hour of sleep*,...



Why is the loss of an hour of sleep an automatic assumption?  Unless you've set an alarm clock to wake you at a set time every Sunday morning, there's no reason you can't sleep until you wake naturally.  If you wake up naturally an hour earlier, you can't blame that on DST.


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## cave76 (Mar 29, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> If you wake up naturally an hour earlier, you can't blame that on DST.



But maybe your dog or cat? Or the rooster?


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## Andy M. (Mar 29, 2014)

cave76 said:


> But maybe your dog or cat? Or the rooster?



None of these are an issue for me.


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## cave76 (Mar 29, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> None of these are an issue for me.



I didn't think so.


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## Andy M. (Mar 29, 2014)

Even so, pets don't read clocks.  With DST it's dark later in the morning so they would be prone to sleeping later as well, based on the degree of darkness.  i.e., if your pets sleep 10 hours during standard time, why wouldn't they sleep 10 hours during DST?


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## cave76 (Mar 29, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> Even so, pets don't read clocks.  With DST it's dark later in the morning so they would be prone to sleeping later as well, based on the degree of darkness.  i.e., if your pets sleep 10 hours during standard time, why wouldn't they sleep 10 hours during DST?



Is that a trick question?  There were too many numbers in that question for me (a math failure) to even begin to answer! But I did add 10 and 10  together and got 20 with the help of my fingers and toes.


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## Cooking Goddess (Mar 29, 2014)

cave76 said:


> Just in:
> 
> " (Reuters) - Switching over to daylight saving time, and losing one hour of sleep, raised the risk of having a heart attack the following Monday by 25 percent, compared to other Mondays during the year, according to a new U.S. study released on Saturday....


I found another bit of glum news that is apparently attributed to switching back and forth from DST: Daylight Saving Time Spring 2014: Why Arizona doesn't observe Daylight Saving  A snippet:

...DST has adverse effects on the American workplace.

"Following [the start and end of DST], employees slept 40 min less, had 5.7% more workplace injuries, and lost 67.6% more work days because of injuries than on non phase change days,"...

While doodling a little googling I ran across ^that^ article about no DST in AZ. As a funny aside, our son went to college there. When he asked why they didn't observe it he was told they didn't want more sunlight because it was too danged hot already!  He said if he was up late he would see joggers on the street getting their runs in before sunrise...sometimes out there beating the pavement at 3 AM or so. He'd also hear lawn mowers kick off early in the morning - it had to be done during the coolest part of the day. Why? It's a desert! Don't even try to grow grass unless you're a golf course. And golf courses in a desert climate are a whole 'nuther topic!


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## cave76 (Mar 29, 2014)

CG related:
" would see joggers on the street getting their runs in before sunrise"

In Albuquerque (and probably other hot cities) the malls would be open for people to jog/walk their daily exercise in air conditioned comfort.


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## Cooking Goddess (Mar 29, 2014)

I think a lot of malls do that no matter where they are. I worked at a mall south of Cleveland; we had a Mall Walkers Club that could access the mall as early as 8:00AM, but the stores didn't open until 10.  Also, a cousin in Allentown goes walking with his buddy most mornings, then they stop for coffee when the mall restaurants open up. I'm going to guess that malls do that less for the comfort and convenience of walkers than to get you to window shop and, ultimately, buy stuff.


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## cave76 (Mar 29, 2014)

Cooking Goddess said:


> I think a lot of malls do that no matter where they are. I worked at a mall south of Cleveland; we had a Mall Walkers Club that could access the mall as early as 8:00AM, but the stores didn't open until 10.  Also, a cousin in Allentown goes walking with his buddy most mornings, then they stop for coffee when the mall restaurants open up.* I'm going to guess that malls do that less for the comfort and convenience of walkers than to get you to window shop and, ultimately, buy stuff.*



Gee, ya think?


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## GB (Mar 29, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> Why is the loss of an hour of sleep an automatic assumption?  Unless you've set an alarm clock to wake you at a set time every Sunday morning, there's no reason you can't sleep until you wake naturally.  If you wake up naturally an hour earlier, you can't blame that on DST.


Not everyone has the luxury of being about to wake naturally Sunday morning. My kids have religious school that we need to wake up for. If it were not religious school it would be something else (sports, acting, dance, whatever). We have to set an alarm Sat night and get up early Sunday always.


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## Andy M. (Mar 29, 2014)

GB said:


> Not everyone has the luxury of being about to wake naturally Sunday morning...



GB, that's why I mentioned,  _"...Unless you've set an alarm clock to wake you at a set time... _Some folks have to get up on a schedule.  Y=They have the option of going to bead early.

If you live in Chicago and fly to Boston to visit friends, you lose an hour.  No one cries about that hour.  I just think DST gets more bad press than it warrants.


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## GB (Mar 30, 2014)

Sorry Andy. I must not have seen that part. However, going to bed early still = a lost hour.

I am sure there are many people in Chicago who have never been out of Chicago. They have the option of going to Boston or not going to Boston. Not the same with DST. As for no one crying about losing that hour from travel, just what are you basing that on? Plenty of people complain about that. You might not notice it the same way since not everyone is traveling the same day so not everyone is experiencing the loss all together at once, but trust me, people most certainly do complain about losing time when traveling. 

Personally, I have zero issues with DST. It does not bother me one bit. I could take it or leave it.


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## Andy M. (Mar 30, 2014)

I promise the hour you lost in the Spring will magically reappear in the Fall.  Every year.


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## cave76 (Mar 30, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> I promise the hour you lost in the Spring will magically reappear in the Fall.  Every year.


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## taxlady (Mar 30, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> I promise the hour you lost in the Spring will magically reappear in the Fall.  Every year.


That was driven into my brain hard when I worked nigh shifts at a convalescent hospital. You got paid for eight hours for a shift from 23h30 to 07h30, even on the DST nights. So in Spring you got eight hours pay for seven hours work and in Autumn you got paid eight hours for nine hours work. After the first time I worked that shift in fall, I made sure that I always had that day off in Fall and worked it in Spring.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 30, 2014)

taxlady said:


> That was driven into my brain hard when I worked nigh shifts at a convalescent hospital. You got paid for eight hours for a shift from 23h30 to 07h30, even on the DST nights. So in Spring you got eight hours pay for seven hours work and in Autumn you got paid eight hours for nine hours work. After the first time I worked that shift in fall, I made sure that I always had that day off in Fall and worked it in Spring.



Exactly!  Only in my case it was a twelve hour shift and putting in 13 hours was painful...


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## cave76 (Mar 30, 2014)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> Exactly!  Only in my case it was a twelve hour shift and putting in 13 hours was painful...



PF----- maybe you can answer my Stray Thought at:

http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f26/stray-thoughts-75054-517.html#post1354690


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## roadfix (Mar 9, 2019)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> We don't need it.  It is silly and stupid.





pacanis said:


> I don't like it.





Roll_Bones said:


> Its stupid and is backwards at best.





roadfix said:


> The best time to stock up on Kingsford charcoal are during the major spring and summer holidays.




I agree


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## Just Cooking (Mar 9, 2019)

I like DST...  

Ross


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## Rascal (Mar 9, 2019)

I believe it was put in place here for the farming community. I love it, personally.

Russ


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## Cooking Goddess (Mar 9, 2019)

Me too, *Ross* and *Russ*.  ( You guys could be a law firm... ) I know what MY solution is to get more light in the evening, but I've been drawing out the process of getting this MA house up for sale and heading back to OH. The sunset difference between here and there is 40 minutes! It's so nice to see a sunset occurring after 9:00 PM...


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## Kayelle (Mar 9, 2019)

As someone with Seasonal Affective Disorder (_SAD_), Daylight Savings Time makes me a happy girl and the time change for more daylight is one my favorite days of the year. The worse day is when it changes back in the fall.


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## Rascal (Mar 9, 2019)

Cooking Goddess said:


> Me too, *Ross* and *Russ*.  ( You guys could be a law firm... ) I know what MY solution is to get more light in the evening, but I've been drawing out the process of getting this MA house up for sale and heading back to OH. The sunset difference between here and there is 40 minutes! It's so nice to see a sunset occurring after 9:00 PM...



I can be Denny crane,lol.

I too love the sun, winter I detest, I think it's the Suns Ray's boost your body. I like being out in the garden at 9 pm at night. With full light. Winter I tend to do what the Bears do. How people live with snow is beyond me. 

Russ aka Denny


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## roadfix (Mar 9, 2019)

What really annoys me is the twice yearly time change routine.    I can live with DS if they kept it year round, although I prefer stay just with ST.


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## tenspeed (Mar 9, 2019)

For those who listened to Click and Clack, The Tappet Brothers on NPR, Tommy proposed double dog daylight saving time (a two hour clock shift) for those living in New England.  Even with DST, in July sunrise is 5:00 AM, and sunset is 8:30 PM.  Without DST, sunrise would be 4:00 AM and sunset would be 7:30 PM.  As it gets light 30 minutes before actual sunrise, the birds would go off at 3:30 AM.

  Maybe we're just in the wrong time zone.


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## roadfix (Mar 9, 2019)

Now, at least with the smart phones people won't be showing up an hour late to work Sunday morning, following the time change.    We had that problem when people relied on other means to wake up.


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## taxlady (Mar 9, 2019)

roadfix said:


> What really annoys me is the twice yearly time change routine.    I can live with DS if they kept it year round, although I prefer stay just with ST.


There are more vehicular collisions after the change overs. I agree with you. I could live with a year round change, but prefer it as standard time. Why don't we just change the time work starts in winter?


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## caseydog (Mar 9, 2019)

The never-die thread is back!

Who cares why -- I JUST LOVE IT!!!

Every body who does not like DST is  just... well, WRONG!

CD


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## Andy M. (Mar 10, 2019)

As the changeover to/from DST seems to be where most problems occur, I'm in favor of DST year round. Actually, I'm in favor of it year round regardless.


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## roadfix (Mar 10, 2019)

Preferences mostly depend on where you live I guess.


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## Just Cooking (Mar 10, 2019)

Andy M. said:


> As the changeover to/from DST seems to be where most problems occur, I'm in favor of DST year round. Actually, I'm in favor of it year round regardless.



+1... Year around would be great for me..

I also hibernate in winter.. More so in Missouri than I did in Cali..

Ross


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 10, 2019)

DST is mostly just a PIA, setting all the clocks and remembering to set the clock in the truck.


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef (Mar 10, 2019)

cave76 said:


> Can anyone explain why we need Daylight Saving Time?


For the same reason we are th only industrialized nation that doesn't use the metric system: Inherent American stubbornness!


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## Kayelle (Mar 10, 2019)

Living here in *California*, I may have changed all my clocks for the *last time *this morning. I sure hope that's the case... 
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-change-legislation-could-end-dst/3102444002/


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## Addie (Mar 10, 2019)

Cooking Goddess said:


> Me too, *Ross* and *Russ*.  ( You guys could be a law firm... ) I know what MY solution is to get more light in the evening, but I've been drawing out the process of getting this MA house up for sale and heading back to OH. The sunset difference between here and there is 40 minutes! *It's so nice to see a sunset occurring after 9:00 PM...*


*
*

I am not so sure about that. When we lived in Aransas Pass Tex. it is located right on the cusp of the next western time zone. Bright daylight at 10 p.m. Try to get your kids to bed at that time. 

But the up side was that school got out in the middle of May, but started again in August. 85% of the kids were farm kids. Needed at home to work on the farm or ranch. 

What really surprised me was just how many kids rode their horses to school. Recess was always spent watering their animals. I couldn't help wonder if the animals knew what DST was all about.


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## Cooking Goddess (Mar 10, 2019)

Cooking Goddess said:


> ...It's so nice to see a sunset occurring after 9:00 PM...





Addie said:


> [/B]I am not so sure about that...


Well *I* am.  I lived in the greater Cleveland area a wonderful 49 years. *Sunrise and sunset times in Cleveland, OH*


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## Kayelle (Mar 10, 2019)

That's a cool chart CG, I set it for Los Angeles and our sunsets are around 8pm in the summer. 

 I also set it for Aransas Pass Tex. Addie. Your memory of bright sunlight at 10 pm was before the world shifted I guess. 


When we visit Alaska in May, sunset will be around midnight.


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## Kaneohegirlinaz (Mar 10, 2019)

Very cool *CG*!!

https://sunrise-sunset.org/search?location=Kaneohe,+HI

I could not explain why DST is needed, mainly `cuz, 
I've never lived anywhere that observed it!
Hawaii does not and neither does Arizona 

My problem has ALWAYS been trying to figure out what 
time it is where our relatives live and not call them
at a *ghastly* hour 
of the day or night!


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## GotGarlic (Mar 10, 2019)

Cooking Goddess said:


> Well *I* am.  I lived in the greater Cleveland area a wonderful 49 years. *Sunrise and sunset times in Cleveland, OH*


I lived in Michigan for the first 21 years of my life and I loved those late sunsets. My parents somehow got us into bed when they wanted us to  I still miss them.


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## roadfix (Mar 10, 2019)

DST isn't gonna make a whole lot of difference for folks living in the tropical zones


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## Andy M. (Mar 10, 2019)

Kaneohegirlinaz said:


> ...My problem has ALWAYS been trying to figure out what
> time it is where our relatives live and not call them
> at a *ghastly* hour
> of the day or night!



Fortunately, we now have Siri to help us with that!


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## Kayelle (Mar 10, 2019)

roadfix said:


> DST isn't gonna make a whole lot of difference for folks living in the tropical zones




It will make a lot of difference for some of us when it's not dark at 5pm in December. Maybe we'll be able to drive until 6pm.


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## GotGarlic (Mar 10, 2019)

roadfix said:


> DST isn't gonna make a whole lot of difference for folks living in the tropical zones


Nothing works for everyone.


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## roadfix (Mar 11, 2019)

Kayelle said:


> It will make a lot of difference for some of us when it's not dark at 5pm in December. Maybe we'll be able to drive until 6pm.





My theory:
If you live in the tropics you have a good balance of daylight vs darkness, year round.   Folks living in the mid to higher latitudes benefit the most from DS, me thinks...


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## Kayelle (Mar 11, 2019)

roadfix said:


> My theory:
> If you live in the tropics you have a good balance of daylight vs darkness, year round.   Folks living in the mid to higher latitudes benefit the most from DS, me thinks...




My theory is everyone in the country benefits from year round DST, some more than others. This part of California has a Mediterranean Climate, not tropical by the way. Not to mention grilling in December here is a lot more pleasant if it's not dark at 5pm.


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## Cooking Goddess (Mar 11, 2019)

Addie said:


> ...When we lived in Aransas Pass Tex. it is located right on the cusp of the next western time zone. Bright daylight at 10 p.m...


Are you sure about that, *Addie*? Unless they have drastically changed the time zone map since you lived there, you weren't anywhere near the Pacific time zone. In fact, this chart shows that the very latest sunset is just before 8:29 PM, with last light before 9:00 PM. *Sunrise and Sunset Times in Aransas Pass, TX.* I think your rememberer needs a little dusting off. 



GotGarlic said:


> ...My parents somehow got us into bed when they wanted us to  I still miss them.


I know I'd conk out every night! Between biking and dodge ball and going to the swimming pool or tennis courts, I was dog tired every night. No one had to beg me to head to bed, but Mom had to remind me to shower before. "You are NOT going to bed with that dirt on you!"


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## Addie (Mar 11, 2019)

*I hope this answers a lot of your questions. From NatGeo*

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...itorial::add=History_20190311::rid=5367297735


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## Caslon (Mar 11, 2019)

I didn't mind DST and all that. What I minded was Congress moving up the start of DST from where it used to be.  It was supposed to save energy costs doing that, but studies have now shown that it has been of no real benefit, energy wise. Congress has been too entrenched in the status quo to set it back to when it used to start and end.


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## taxlady (Mar 11, 2019)

I mind the change as well. A lot of other countries sort of have to do it at the same time as the US because so much business is done with the US. Can you imagine the confusion if Canada had stuck to the old dates? We didn't necessarily want to change, but pretty much had to.


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