# Pork spare ribs/baby back ribs input needed



## htc

What do you think are the most important things to do/know when grilling pork ribs on a GAS GRILL???

I know there are a bunch of people out there who will say that I ruined the ribs by using gas, but that's just another thread.  

Everytime I grill ribs, I can't get the juicy tender ribs that I am lookinig for. To be honest, I don't really have a recipe or technique. I just use a dry rub, toss it on the grill and turn to low. I flip when it looks ready (whatever that means).

If you leave pork ribs on  the grill at a low setting for a long time (say several hours) does that equal tender ribs? I don't cook mine very long about an hour, I am afraid the ribs will get dry and I'll waste my ribs. 

p.s. I 've seen on TV some people put beer or some sort of liquid in a spray bottle and baste using the spray bottle, anyone ever try this?


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## Andy M.

The meat on ribs isn't the most tender. As a result, you have to cook it low and slow to tenderize it. We're talking 225 F for 2-3 hours. I can't get my gas grill to maintain a temperature that low.

Ribs are usually made with a dry rub - rub it in the day before cooking and let it sit in the fridge. And a mop sauce is used during cooking. It adds flavor and moisture during the cooking process. That's what you saw in the spray bottle.

You could also add smoke from woodchips for an added flavor element.

As an alternative, check out Alton Brown's rib recipe, you can do it in your oven: http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_11125,00.html

IF you go to FoodTV's site tha type "ribs" in the recipes window, you'll get a number of choices.


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## mudbug

Moved to appropriate forum.


htc, HH usually does our ribs on charcoal, but what Andy says is also good.  HH made ribs recently in the oven using pretty much the techniques Andy recommends and my mom can't stop raving about them.


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## lutzzz

Hi HTC... was born/raised in Oregon but not the point of my post. Some thoughts on the subject until Rainee gets here.

I've successfully "Q'ed" babybacks on a Weber three burner gasser successfully. I found babybacks to be much more tender naturally than "normal" spareribs, and do okay at 275 and maybe even 300.. but 300 might be pushing it. Low/Slow is the key to pork and ribs can get dry and stay tough if cooked to hot/fast.

Andy is spot on when he says they need 2-3 hours.. actually I think 4 hours might be necessary... but not all ribs, babyback or otherwise, are created equal.. so you have to check by attempting to bend your rack in half or whatever.. if you can split your rack by bending, they are done. Start checking at about 2 1/2 to 3 hours or a six-pack's worth.. which ever comes first.

On my gas grill, which I gave to my son, I could get 275 with one burner on (the other two off).. and would toss a foil pack of wood chips (your choice.. I used hickory I think).. poke a couple of holes in the to of the foil.

One thing that would also help, although I don't do it now 'cause I use very low/slow charcoal for my ribs.. is to brine them... maybe 1/4 cup sugar, 1/4 cup table salt (or 1/2 cup kosher) in about 2 quarts of water (I estimate).. toss in the refrig for 6 or more hours... 

Then use a rub... 
this is one idea but there are a bunch of recipes.. probably on this site and on the net:
1 tablespoon plus 1/2 teaspoon sweet paprika
1 1/2 teaspoons chili powder
1 3/4 teaspoons ground cumin
1 1/2 teaspoons dark brown sugar
3/4 teaspoon table salt or 1 1/2 teaspoons kosher salt 
3/4 teaspoon dried oregano
3/4 teaspoon ground black pepper
1 teaspoon ground white pepper
1/2 teaspoon cayenne pepper

Wrap in saran or other wrap... refrig 6-8 hours or overnight.. the longer the more "spicy" they will be.
Stick your probe (Polder or other.. I use a Maverick remote) in a raw potato with the end sticking out 2 inches or so... set it beside your ribs... that way you can measure you actual grill temperature.. Depending on your gas grill, if your temp is still too high...you might have to prop your lid open 1/4" or so with a wood chip or something..... then watch the temp and be sure it doesn't drop below 200 degrees...


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## htc

Thanks for the input. I think I will try the oven next time I get ribs!


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## Raine

htc, you need to cook them longer than a hour. I would set the grill at the lowest setting (and put a oven thermometer on the rack) to see what temp you're cooking at.  Also (you can find them at Walmart or your BBQ store) get a little fire box and use wood pellets for smoke flavor. Probably need to cook the ribs 3-6 hours, depending on your temp.


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## HanArt

I disagree with those long cooking times for baby back ribs. There's no reason to cook them longer than an hour if you're using indirect heat, less for direct. Spare ribs are a different story.

We make a rub with brown sugar, paprika, cayenne, fresh garlic, S&P ... let it set for 2-3 hours in the fridge ... then grill over indirect heat for about 50 minutes (flipping after 30 minutes), brushing with a sauce the last 5.


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## Chef Wil

When I have to use a gas grill I use an indirect heat. I heat the whole BBQ on high heat then turn off one side and cook on it. I leave the other side adjusted so I get an even 225 to 250 degree temp and cook for 90 minutes for BBRs. Spare ribs I cook for 3 to 4 hours or longer if they are extra meaty. One thing to remember for tastier more tender ribs is to pull the membrane off the inside of the ribs. This will block the rub on the smoke from entering the meat. No, I don't think it dries the meat more than leaving it on. 

For a rub I use 
1 cup sweet paprika (Not Spanish)
1 cup dark brown sugar
1/2 cup granulated garlic
1/2 cup granulated onion
2 tbs thyme
2 tbs basil
2 tbs tarragon
1 tb black pepper
1 tsp cayenne
1 tsp cumin
1 tsp black pepper
Blend all ingredients and season liberally on both sides of the ribs with it to taste. 
Place covered loosely in the fridge over night or at least 4 hours. Grill in a cool covered grill or oven (225* to 250*F.) for 90 minutes for BBR and 2 to 3 hours for a rack of SR.

I will use 1/4 cup of the rub and mix it with 1/2 cup malt vinegar and 3/4 cup whiskey for a mop and finish with my homemade BBQ sauce.

If you are looking for a BBQ for seafood try 1/4 cup rub mixed with 1/4 cup white wine and 3 tbs evoo.

I don't use any salt in my ribs, instead I salt the meat as it cooks, it keeps the outside of the meat a little more moist.


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## Raine

Any rib, to get it tender will need to cook longer than hour. 

We use only babybacks in competition, we cook them at about 225° to 250 ° and we cook them 4-6 hours. They will be tender, but not falling off the bone.


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## HanArt

Rainee said:
			
		

> Any rib, to get it tender will need to cook longer than hour.
> 
> We use only babybacks in competition, we cook them at about 225° to 250 ° and we cook them 4-6 hours. They will be tender, but not falling off the bone.


 
I've always considered baby backs to be fairly tender to begin with, just like tenderloin. Lean cuts cook quickly. Slow, low cooking is fine, but not necessary with baby backs.


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## mikegeorge

I turn off the middle and front burners, put the ribs in back and prop the lid open with a tin can. I also roll my ribs rather than laying flat. Cook for about 4 hours. Very juicy, very tender.


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## Raine

You gotta cook them until the fat renders.  I have never known anyone to cook them in an hour, not on a grill at least.

If they have been cooking them an hour and they aren't tender, then cooking them longer might be the key.


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## htc

Hmmm, it sounds like there is a big difference between the big gas grills and my Weber Q. My gas grill only has one burner, it's a big oval shaped ring that is under the grill. I will have to look into getting a thermometer to check how low it goes. 

Does anyone have a hand strategy to check the appropriate temp? i.e. if I put my palm a couple inches away, how long should I be able to hold it over the heat?

Thanks!


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## Chef Wil

htc said:
			
		

> Hmmm, it sounds like there is a big difference between the big gas grills and my Weber Q. My gas grill only has one burner, it's a big oval shaped ring that is under the grill. I will have to look into getting a thermometer to check how low it goes.
> 
> Does anyone have a hand strategy to check the appropriate temp? i.e. if I put my palm a couple inches away, how long should I be able to hold it over the heat?
> 
> Thanks!


 
Hard to say, I have a bad case of kitchen hands (AKA, Asbestos Finger Disorder), I reach into boiling water and handle plates that have burned wait staff. The best way is always a thermometer IMO, that way you can be sure.


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## Constance

*Baby Back Ribs*

BBQ Ribs
Recipe adapted from Chinese Smoked Ribs
Better Homes & Gardens

Ingredients:

6 lbs. loin back or baby back ribs
Remove tough membrane from back with a screwdriver.

Dry Rub:
2 tbl sugar
1 tsp salt
1/2 tsp paprika
1/2 tsp ground turmeric
1/2 tsp celery seed
1/2 tsp dry mustard

Mix all together, sprinkle generously on meat, and rub in thoroughly. Let stand two hours or more.

Sauce:
1/2 cup catsup
1/2 cup brown sugar, packed
3 tbl soy sauce
1 tbl grated fresh ginger, or 2 tsp ground ginger
1 clove garlic minced, or 1 tsp granulated garlic
1/2 tsp Tobasco sauce

Combine ingredients in saucepan. Cook and stir till sugar is dissolved.

Heat charcoal grill to between 250 and 275 degrees. Place ribs bone side down and cover. Cook 30 minutes, then turn. Let cook over low coals for 3 hours, turning every 20 minutes, then wrap in foil and allow to steam for 2 hours or more. (The book says 30 minutes per side, and nothing about the foil, but this is the way Kim does it, and they melt in your mouth. Besides...more time for beer!)
Remove foil from ribs and brush sauce on both sides. Grill, uncovered, till sauce is caramalized, about 10-15 minutes more.


*I make up 3-4 batches of the sauce and rub at a time, storing spices in a shaker jar in my cupboard, and the sauce in a quart jar or catsup bottle in the fridge.
It lasts forever as long as it hasn't been contaminated with the meat.

*This sauce and rub are good for any type of pork...pork steaks are especially good. Kim likes to crisp the meat up on the grill and let some of the fat drip off before he brushes it with the sauce.
The sauce is also very tasty on a pulled pork sandwich, along with a little vinegar based slaw.


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## Raine

Throw some wood on the charcoal and add a little smoke flavor.

I've seen ribs cooked in competition in a very simliar method.


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## Constance

Actually, I left out the part about the hickory chips. Thanks for bringing that up Rainee.
By the way, I had an Aunt Rainee (Lorraine), and she was a great cook!


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## lutzzz

I agree with Rainee on the BB ribs, based only on my first hand experience which, admittedly is somewhat limited.. being 15 years of so. Prior to that I used to boil my ribs to tenderize them, then baste them in some sauce and toss them on the grill to char a bit... Then one day someone said to me "Why are you tossing away all that good pork broth?" (referring to the water I had used to boil the ribs in)... I then decided I didn't want to continue making pork soup.. so I learned bit about the long/slow cooking techniques of BBQ.

I don't believe God invented a pig with baby back ribs tender enough to be cooked tender in less than three hours, or at least He doesn't allow them to be sold in the Seattle area. I seem to recall one rack of baby backs I did a long time ago (with HIGH FAT content) that became kinda "bone loose" after about 3 hours... and I pulled them off. The rest of them have taken at least 4 hours... at ANY temp (except my pressure cooker which cooks them pretty tender in about 20-25 minutes with 15 lbs pressure..and allowed to cool naturally.. but then you leave half your flavor in the liquid in your pressure cooker.. not cool.).

Bear in mind too, that not all ribs are created equal and unlike a lot of other cooking, "Q" isn't really time dependent,, it's "feel" dependent.. you flat have to CHECK them,, if the bone wiggles, can be pulled out a bit and/or the rack will start to break when bent, they are done. Time is only a general guideline for when to start checking them.

I seldom "Q" baby backs 'cause I don't believe they have the same degree aka "as much" flavor as "regular" ribs; have much less meat; and cost about twice as much... 

Ribs are more forgiving than most cuts though, and can tolerate a 300 degree temp, or flair ups at 325.. most pork turns to shoe leather IF you cook it at very high temps though.

Bear in mind that with any grill/smoker thing with a cover (Weber kettle, Weber gas with some burners turned off, etc.) that your dome temp will always be at least 25 degrees higher than your grill temp.. so if your dome thermometer says 325 degrees, you're actually cooking your ribs at 275... I mention this 'cause it confuses a lot of people new to "Q"...


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## HanArt

I still say baby backs are tender and don't require long grilling times. If you've never tried it how would you know?

http://www.barbecue.thecamp.com/rib.htm

http://www.ehow.com/how_18259_barbecue-baby-back.html


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## Chef Wil

HanArt said:
			
		

> I still say baby backs are tender and don't require long grilling times. If you've never tried it how would you know?
> 
> http://www.barbecue.thecamp.com/rib.htm
> 
> http://www.ehow.com/how_18259_barbecue-baby-back.html


 
I wonder if there is case for plagiarism between those sites? 

I might go for a quick cook of 90 minutes in an emergency but no way will I even try to contemplate 12 minutes total cooking time. If I have the time I will slow smoke BBRs or any other rib for 6 hours or more. 

I noticed that the author of one site suggested 'pre-cooking' thicker ribs. I wonder if he was talking about boiling? Any other method of cooking I can think of is an oven and that is all a smoker is really. The slow grill with a hood has the same effect. 

BTW, if they are tender, why do they recommend a knife to cut away the bone when it should pull off with little effort? I'm not trying to be argumentative but the terms that are being used don't make since to me.


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## lutzzz

A great source of BBQ information can be found here: http://www.eaglequest.com/~bbq/
Their updated FAQ #2 can be found here: http://www.eaglequest.com/~bbq/faq2/
The section pertaining to ribs: http://www.eaglequest.com/~bbq/faq2/10-1.html#10.1.1

Specifically:


> "Most racks of ribs of 3 pounds and under will be done in approximately 3.5 to 4 hours at 200 to 225F. If the ribs are extra plump and thick it can help to bump the temperature to 250F. Baby backs will take 30 to 45 minutes less. In any case, the ribs are done when the meat is tender and will easily pull away from the bone. When they reach that point, take them out immediately."


I'd be a bit "skeptical" of the information provided in the two sites HanArt references. Among other things, they recommend cooking to "a temperature of 155 degrees"... 

Since collagen (connective tissues) doesn't begin breaking down until between 160 and 170 degrees... these site recommendations don't even call for cooking to a temperature to begin this process. Of course you'll need a knife to separate the ribs.... and a good pair of teeth and strong jaws to chew the meat with too  . 

Perhaps the ahhh hummmm searching for the best word to use here... ah, the "confusion" (that's it.. confusion) here comes from different definitions of "tender"?

To some that must mean they can cut them with a sharp knife? And to others (including me) it means I can loosen and perhaps pull the bone out with my fingers, and break the ribs apart by bending them... 

It's all "relative" I guess.


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## HanArt

All I can say is that it works, the meat is still tender and moist, and no knife is needed. 

_"It was once thought that pork must be cooked to an internal temperature of 185°F to ensure that trichinella spiralis parasite would be killed. It is now known that trichinella spiralis is eliminated at 137°F, however, it is still recommended that pork be cooked to an internal temperature of 155°F to 160°F so it is safe to eat. Cooking the pork to a temperature of 185°F will produce tough, dry meat."_

_http://www.hormel.com/templates/knowledge/knowledge.asp?catitemid=32&id=444_


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## lutzzz

> "... Cooking the pork to a temperature of 185°F will produce tough, dry meat."


 
I'm beginning to think we're talking about two different "things" here (for want of a more scientific term), e.g. "cooking pork" and "barbecuing pork". And I surely hate to disagree with a big company like Hormel, but I suspect there are 10's of THOUSANDS of BBQ'ers (both back yard and competition type cooks) who "Q" pork shoulder/aka butt and ribs.. who will substantially disagree with that statement IF it's unqualified.

The issue isn't to what temperature pork needs to be cooked to ensure safety.. I cook my pork loins to about 145 degrees or so, then let the residual heat carry it up another 5 or more degrees... but I'm cooking at 375 in my oven.. I have done a pork loin on the Weber 22" kettle too... with the bottom vent fully open and using a chimney of charcoal offset (same as for cooking a turkey or a chicken.. although a turkey takes a bit more charcoal).. the grill temp is about 325-350.. BTW that's a great way to cook a turkey. But you must take it off at about 150 as Hormel mentions.

I suspect Hormel's statement is true IF ribs are cooked at a grill temp over about 275 degrees... it takes a long time for the collagen to break down.. the internal meet temp will "hang" at about 165 degrees for an hour or two while the collagen converts... then it will rise again... typically a pork butt for "pulling" needs to be cooked to 195 or so... and it's NOT dry. 

But if ya kicks the temp up much over 275 degrees, the meat dries out before the collagen breaks down and no matter how long you cook them, or to what internal temp... they get tough. and stay tough. So probably Hormel and I are both right, in a manner of speaking.

Here's 8 racks of ribs I did a couple years ago.. as I recall they took about 5 hours or more at about 225-250 degrees in a WSM smoker... I didn't take their temp but I guarantee they were cooked to a temp well over 155 degrees... probably closer to 190.. and I also guarantee they were "tender" and "not dry"...


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## cantcook

The problem with most gas grills is that you can't cook slow enough without turning your grill on and off. What I do when slow cooking ribs and anything else that needs a few hours at a low temp, on MY GRILL..........yours may, and probably does, cook differently. What I have to do is heat my grill up to a fairly higher temp than what I want it to cook at and then set to low and throw the meat on. For ribs I will probably keep the fire on low for about 40 minutes, then start an on off cycle for the rest of the cooking (couple or few hours). 15 on, 15 off and I just monitor the meat to see if that is cooking at the speed that I hoped for or I may need to alter my on off times a little.



I learned to grill that way while trying to get a wild turkey breast cooked on the grill and still have it dripping with juice. It worked and still works for me.


BUT, if you are in a hurry there is absolutely nothing wrong with boiling ribs then throwing them on the grill, other than cooking purists giving you a hard time.  98% of the people you feed with your ribs would never know it either, if you didn't tell them so.


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## lutzzz

can'tcook... I had a Weber gasser for awhile... gave it to my son 'cause it wouldn't get hot enough to sear my steaks (I want 700+ degrees grill temp).. and I had the same "low heat" problem you mention.

It was a three burner Weber, can't recall the model right now, but by turning two burners off and the other one as low as it would go.. I kinda solved the heat problem by taking a small chip of wood and proping the lid up 1/2" or so... I think I experimented with how far to prop it open...

Anyway, that way I could slow cook at 275 grill temp.. you lose some smoke that way, but meat won't absorb smoke after internal temp of about 140 degrees anyway.. so I just added some more chips to my foil packet to compensate.. and I seldom use much smoke for ribs anyway...

Someone on this forum, or the other one I post too.. darn if I can recall now.. claimed they could get their Weber gasser down to about 250.. I never could. Perhap my gas jets were hotter or something....

I really recommend you have both.. a charcoal WSM (or the less expensive equivalent if you want to fuss with things a lot)... that's Weber Smokey Mountain btw... 

Amazon has them on sale now and then, at about $179 and sometimes has a $25 off purchases of $125 or coupon special... and free shipping... money well spent IF you want a very easy to use, successful BBQ setup. The less expensive Brinkman types require a lot more skill and fuss... the Weber is "idiot proof".. that's why I got mine


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## htc

You know, I NEVER KNEW YOU COULD COOK RIBS with the capsule looking smoker! My Dad has one!!!!!!!!!! Needless to say I've already called him to borrow it. I am picking it up this weekend. I guess it didn't register with me because when we were kids, my Dad tried to smoke some salmon in it and it didn't taste like the stuff you get at the store, so we never really tried much else (at least that I remember). Funny he never used it for ribs. 

I'm so excited!!! Now I just have to pick up some ribs and read up on how to use those darn things. I've never used it, but have a feeling that it's going to stay in my little patio for a while. 

I don't know what brand it is or model, but I remember it looks like one similar to the one Lutzz used (I think).


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## lutzzz

can'tcook... sorry to post and run on and off here... I'm at home "kinda" working too, and have some people dropping in and out for interviews (?airre thing).

Anyway, I just re-read your last post.. about "boiling ribs in water".. I was gonna recommend, rather than making pork broth.. you consider some alternatives if you're in a "hurry".. the best of the evils would be to toss them in a pressure cooker, on a rack, with 1 cup of water.. and cook for 15 minutes @ 15lbs... they might still be a bit tough but should still be on the bone... but you won't have as much flavor loss as boiling them in water.

Another alternative, not as fast as the pressure cooker, is to bake them in the oven for? (HELP,, I know someone here has done this,, I don't know the temp or times).. then finish on the gas or charcoal grill, baste with whatever sauce you have, etc.

Many chinese/asian recipes call for steaming their ribs first,, they typically deep fry them after... (they do the same with chicken... steam about 10 minutes, then deep fry TWICE to make them crisp .. like twice deep fried french fries)... I don't know the times for steaming either... I'm sure there are some recipes on the net.. google Chinese ribs, etc...

The LAST thing I would do is boil them in water... but this is just IMHO.. cause if you taste the water after you've boiled them.. it makes a pretty good pork broth for a soup, etc... but I don't doubt your guests won't know... my guests had no clue how badly I was destroying my ribs back in the "ol days" when I used to boil mine.. but I then switched to a pressure cooker... and later got into true "Q".

HTC... you don't NEED a Weber WSM smoker... for years I smoked on a couple of Brinkman smokers... there was another model I used too... again, memory fades... but the thing about them is, they aren't as "air tight" as the WSM and require a lot more watching and monitoring of your fire... and the grill temp... etc... but you can do some excellent "Q" on them too. 

Just get another six pack and have it cooling with you... 'cause you'll be sitting outside a lot more than if you were using a WSM.. the WSM is mostly "set it and forget it" ala that rotisserie commercial  

I used a Polder probe thermometer like Alton Brown uses on his shows.. about $24.95 or less as I recall, stick the probe into a potato with the tip sticking out.. be careful the wire & probe doesn't touch anything over about 400 degrees or it will burn out... and you can check your temp. I now use one of those remote Maverick thermometers (measures two temps but I only monitor my grill temp usually) ,, good for up to 100 feet away IF you have a pretty good straight line... but 50 feet anyway.

If you're just starting out, I suggest Kingsford briquettes over lump 'cause lump burns hotter, faster, and will take more figuring out how to control.. but later I recommend using lump.

Read that BBQ FAQ I posted above in a prior thread too... take awhile but a TON of valuable info in there... feel free to PM me if you have any questions... perhaps you can benefit from my prior "screw ups"


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## htc

The smoker I borrowed doesn't look like yours afterall...it's a metal box. I must have seen the bullet at the store somewhere and wanted one...oh well, wishful thinking...


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## Raine

Anyone who has eaten ribs cooked on a smoker will be able to tell if you boiled ribs.


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## Chef Wil

Rainee said:
			
		

> Anyone who has eaten ribs cooked on a smoker will be able to tell if you boiled ribs.


 
I'll second that opinion Raniee, I can tell boiled ribs regardless of how they are finished, weak and watery tasting.


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## cookbookin

I have had success with cooking ribs for a short time, with a rub, and then putting a little beer, 1/4 cup, in some tin foil with the ribs for about 20 mins. Then take the whole rack which is still in the tin foil and let it sit for 45 mins off the heat.  My husband also puts that inside a paperbag too.   Wrapping ribs in tin foil after slow smoking them also makes them very tender.


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## crmos8

I've had good results with ribs on my gasser using Raichlen's 3-2-1 method for spares and the 2-2-1 for BB's with temps running around 240-275.   Just my $.02...........


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## bknox

*Ribs on a grill*

It is important to cook ribs slowly. There are some other considerations to grilling excellent ribs.

1) pull the membrane off of the bone side of the rack.
2) Put an aluminum roasting pan in the bottom of the grill and put a couple of inched of water in it. Indirect heat seems to be be easier for me.
3) Use a dry rub or salt and pepper
4) Place ribs fat side up and do not flip. Let cook entire time fat side up.
5) 220 - 250 degrees for about 2.5 hours.
6) Do not opent he grill to check the ribs all the time, let them cook.
7) Baste with barbecue sauce after ribs are done, for the last 5 or 10 minutes it is on the grill.
8) Let ribs sit for about 8 minutes before cutting so liquids can redistribute.

Sometimes I pack ribs in rock salt and cracked pepper but scrap it off just before applying any sauce. These tips have always helped me make great ribs on a grill. True mastery only comes with practice but I hope this helps.

Take care,
Bryan Knox
Knox Spice Co.
http://www.knoxspice.com


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