# Cuts of beef - how do I use these?



## taxlady (Oct 23, 2010)

My mother-in-law (bless her) gave us one third of a cow. I'm not so fond of the way the butcher cut it up, but hey, it was free.

I have some chunks labelled "inside round", "outside round", and "rump roast". Which one would you use for corned beef? I already used the brisket.


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## buckytom (Oct 23, 2010)

you can corn any cut, technically. but as you'd mentioned, briskets are the most common.

since you have roasts, i would consider doing something more along the lines of sauerbraten.


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## taxlady (Oct 23, 2010)

buckytom said:


> you can corn any cut, technically. but as you'd mentioned, briskets are the most common.
> 
> since you have roasts, i would consider doing something more along the lines of sauerbraten.



But, I want corned beef, and those are the cuts I have. Far too much of that cow was cut into "stewing cubes". There was no chuck. I suspect that the briskets would have been made into stewing cubes or ground beef if I hadn't specifically asked for it.


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## Bigjim68 (Oct 23, 2010)

I would use the round portions for corned beef.  Outside round first, then the inside round, then the rump roast.


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## Andy M. (Oct 23, 2010)

One of the benefits of brisket for corned beef is that it is flat so the brine gets to all the meat more easily.

It might be a good idea to butterfly a thick round piece so you have two flatter pieces.


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## Zhizara (Oct 23, 2010)

Long ago I was lucky enough to have a meat market nearby and I would usually get a regular roast that was corned right in a barrel.  I never bought my corned beef in brisket form.  They were just wonderful so I say corn away. 

Now you've done it.  I'll have to have some corned beef soon.  I guess it will be deli or a brisket as there's no meat market handy.


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## taxlady (Oct 23, 2010)

Andy M. said:


> One of the benefits of brisket for corned beef is that it is flat so the brine gets to all the meat more easily.
> 
> It might be a good idea to butterfly a thick round piece so you have two flatter pieces.



Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I have done it in the past with a boneless blade roast that was on special.


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## taxlady (Oct 23, 2010)

Zhizara said:


> Long ago I was lucky enough to have a meat market nearby and I would usually get a regular roast that was corned right in a barrel.  I never bought my corned beef in brisket form.  They were just wonderful so I say corn away.
> 
> Now you've done it.  I'll have to have some corned beef soon.  I guess it will be deli or a brisket as there's no meat market handy.



Why not make your own? Then you will know what's in it. It's easy and ready to use in 8 days. I use a zippered plastic bag. The recipe is from Julia Child.


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## taxlady (Oct 23, 2010)

Bigjim68 said:


> I would use the round portions for corned beef.  Outside round first, then the inside round, then the rump roast.



Sounds like a plan.

If you have the time and energy, would you mind explaining your rationale? I really don't know anything about those cuts other than where they are on a cow. I just looked them up in _Joy of Cooking_. I have never cooked any of them.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Oct 23, 2010)

We have a food warehouse store of sorts that sells corned beef made from the inside round.  It's truly wonderful stuff.  But be aware, the ability to eat the meat is dependent on how it's cooked, and how it's sliced.  The outside round will work just fine if it's cooked properly, that is, low and slow, and no boiling.  Typically, the corned beef made from the rounds is cut paper thin and layerd into sandwiches, rather than used in boiled dinner, or as a slice to place on a plate.  

While in the U.S. Navy, aboard an aircraft carrier, I once had corned beef between two slices of bread that was so tough, it was nearly inedible (for most it wold have been, but I'm stubborn).  This meat was so tough that it wouldn't cut with a steak knife.  And tearing it with my teeth was like tearing a piece of car tire, litteraly.  I've never had such a tough piece of meat before or since.  

I only bring this up as outside and bottom round can be extremely tough, hence the paper thin slices, and I'm not talking printer paper, but rather, tissue paper.

So yes, use you rounds, but follow the rules when cooking.  Corning doesn't make it tender.  Cooking and serving properly does.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Bigjim68 (Oct 23, 2010)

taxlady said:


> Sounds like a plan.
> 
> If you have the time and energy, would you mind explaining your rationale? I really don't know anything about those cuts other than where they are on a cow. I just looked them up in _Joy of Cooking_. I have never cooked any of them.


My order of usage is actually a bit of reverse engineering.  Rump roast would be the most tender, and therefore more suitable for roasting.  Inside (top) round slightly less tender.  Goodweed is correct in the slicing across the grain in very thin slices. 
When you say cow, I am assuming you are using the term generically.  Cow is a dairy animal, and can be less than tender with little fat, generally suitable for grinding and the better cuts as stew cuts.  Maybe the butcher was trying to tell you something by cutting mostly into stew and ground meat. 
While it is possible to corn thick cuts, there is a risk of the interior turning sour before the salt does it's thing.  Processors get around this by pumping brine into the meat.  (They are also selling water at beef prices, but that is another story).  Pieces 1.5 -2 inches or so thick sliced lengthwise should be best for baggie brining.  
I make corned beef in baggies. The process is simple and the results good.  I generally use choice top round.


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## taxlady (Oct 23, 2010)

Bigjim68 said:


> My order of usage is actually a bit of reverse engineering.  Rump roast would be the most tender, and therefore more suitable for roasting.  Inside (top) round slightly less tender.  Goodweed is correct in the slicing across the grain in very thin slices.
> When you say cow, I am assuming you are using the term generically.  Cow is a dairy animal, and can be less than tender with little fat, generally suitable for grinding and the better cuts as stew cuts.  Maybe the butcher was trying to tell you something by cutting mostly into stew and ground meat.
> While it is possible to corn thick cuts, there is a risk of the interior turning sour before the salt does it's thing.  Processors get around this by pumping brine into the meat.  (They are also selling water at beef prices, but that is another story).  Pieces 1.5 -2 inches or so thick sliced lengthwise should be best for baggie brining.
> I make corned beef in baggies. The process is simple and the results good.  I generally use choice top round.



Thank you. That makes sense. Yeah, I know about careful, long cooking by moist method for tough cuts of meat. I also know about cutting across the grain. I find that I often have to turn the meat and cut from a different place to keep it across the grain.

I use the baggie method too. I put a little calendar on my fridge to mark the first day and put a tick mark each day when I have massaged the meat in the baggie.


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## taxlady (Oct 23, 2010)

Goodweed of the North said:


> We have a food warehouse store of sorts that sells corned beef made from the inside round.  It's truly wonderful stuff.  But be aware, the ability to eat the meat is dependent on how it's cooked, and how it's sliced.  The outside round will work just fine if it's cooked properly, that is, low and slow, and no boiling.  Typically, the corned beef made from the rounds is cut paper thin and layerd into sandwiches, rather than used in boiled dinner, or as a slice to place on a plate.
> ...



Is the brisket really tender? I was under the impression it was on the tough side. I'm asking because it makes a perfectly good boiled dinner, so I'm puzzled why the outside round wouldn't. Last corned beef boiled dinner left us loads for use on sandwiches. I love making my own cold cuts with no weird/toxic ingredients added.


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## Andy M. (Oct 23, 2010)

As Goodweed said, it will be OK if you cook it enough and slice it across the grain.  On its own, brisket is also a tough cut.  Simmering it until it's for tender then slicing it across the grain will make it perfectly edible.


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## taxlady (Nov 16, 2010)

Bigjim68 said:


> I would use the round portions for corned beef.  Outside round first, then the inside round, then the rump roast.



The outside round is in the fridge thawing now, in anticipation of being corned.


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## taxlady (Nov 16, 2010)

Bigjim68 said:


> ...
> 
> When you say cow, I am assuming you are using the term generically.  Cow is a dairy animal, and can be less than tender with little fat, generally suitable for grinding and the better cuts as stew cuts.  Maybe the butcher was trying to tell you something by cutting mostly into stew and ground meat.
> 
> ...



I really don't know. I am beginning to wonder if we got some cow and some beef. I had a T-bone steak (that was more porterhouse to my eye). I wanted something where there would be no doubt whatsoever what part it was. It was sloppily cut, but tender. It wasn't the same thickness throughout.

Now I'm really wondering about the very tough "chateaubriand". Was it something that looks like chateaubriand, but wasn't or was the chateaubriand from a cow?


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## Bigjim68 (Nov 16, 2010)

Chateaubriand is a cut from the tenderloin, and will be the most tender cut on the animal.  The eye of round can be cut to resemble a chateaubriand, but it will not be anyway near as tender.


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## taxlady (Nov 16, 2010)

Bigjim68 said:


> Chateaubriand is a cut from the tenderloin, and will be the most tender cut on the animal.  The eye of round can be cut to resemble a chateaubriand, but it will not be anyway near as tender.



Eye of round, that's the term I was looking for. I know Chateaubriand is supposed to be from the tenderloin. That's why I was so dismayed that it was tough. I have seen eye of round cut into rounds and sold as "tournedos". Bah humbug.


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## Bigjim68 (Nov 17, 2010)

taxlady said:


> I really don't know. I am beginning to wonder if we got some cow and some beef. I had a T-bone steak (that was more porterhouse to my eye). I wanted something where there would be no doubt whatsoever what part it was. It was sloppily cut, but tender. It wasn't the same thickness throughout.
> 
> Now I'm really wondering about the very tough "chateaubriand". Was it something that looks like chateaubriand, but wasn't or was the chateaubriand from a cow?


A T bone is part strip and part tenderloin.  I do not understand why the T bone would be tender and not the filet part
Another issue is if you pull the tender for chateaubriand, you no longer have a T bone.  What's left is a bone in shell or strip.
Interesting butchering job.  Are you sure you have just one animal?


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## taxlady (Nov 17, 2010)

Bigjim68 said:


> A T bone is part strip and part tenderloin.  I do not understand why the T bone would be tender and not the filet part
> Another issue is if you pull the tender for chateaubriand, you no longer have a T bone.  What's left is a bone in shell or strip.
> Interesting butchering job.  Are you sure you have just one animal?



It was tender on both sides. The chateaubriand I was talking about was a different piece. Aren't there two tenderloins on a critter? One on either side? Then you could have both tenderloin and T-bone and Porterhouse steaks.

No, I'm not sure it's all from one critter. I've been wondering about that.

I find the butchering job to be "interesting" too, especially since this guy supposedly teaches butchery. The package that this T-bone came in was labelled, "T-bone steak 1, Rib steak 1". The "rib steak" was tiny (it's in the freezer). Who does that? When would I want 1 T-bone and 1 rib steak?


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## Bigjim68 (Nov 17, 2010)

You're right, meant the side. Point is, if the T bone is tender, then the tenderloin should be tender.  If one side was cut bone in and the other boned, the tenderness should still be the same.


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## taxlady (Nov 17, 2010)

Bigjim68 said:


> You're right, meant the side. Point is, if the T bone is tender, then the tenderloin should be tender.  If one side was cut bone in and the other boned, the tenderness should still be the same.



Yup, should be. I'm wondering if the "chateabriand" was eye of round or from a dairy cow.


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## JMediger (Nov 18, 2010)

If you had paid for the butchering and the meat, I would say you should go to the butcher and ask if there was a chance your meat was mixed with another animal.  

As far as beef cattle vs. dairy cattle, it's in the diet.  Corn (and standing around) makes the tenderness.  Most beef cattle grazes freely and then before slaughter are brought to pasture and feed corn.  We just had a dairy cow butchered with a friend and it's delicious.  Tender, sweet meat with steaks that melt in your mouth including the chateabriand.


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## taxlady (Nov 18, 2010)

JMediger said:


> If you had paid for the butchering and the meat, I would say you should go to the butcher and ask if there was a chance your meat was mixed with another animal.
> 
> As far as beef cattle vs. dairy cattle, it's in the diet.  Corn (and standing around) makes the tenderness.  Most beef cattle grazes freely and then before slaughter are brought to pasture and feed corn.  We just had a dairy cow butchered with a friend and it's delicious.  Tender, sweet meat with steaks that melt in your mouth including the chateabriand.



No, I didn't pay for the meat or the butchering. It was a gift from my MIL. If I had paid for it I would be complaining big time.

I thought the reason dairy cow was tough was age. The meat tastes fine. But, pieces that should be tender aren't.


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## buckytom (Nov 18, 2010)

taxy, do you have a jaccard? if not, you can always tenderize tougher meat by stabbing the heck out of it with a fork. and i mean go to town on it.

i've had shoe leather london broils and round steaks that i've made really tender by either a jaccard or forking.


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## taxlady (Nov 18, 2010)

buckytom said:


> taxy, do you have a jaccard? if not, you can always tenderize tougher meat by stabbing the heck out of it with a fork. and i mean go to town on it.
> 
> i've had shoe leather london broils and round steaks that i've made really tender by either a jaccard or forking.



I never heard of a jaccard before, so I googled. I don't understand why jaccard or forking wouldn't make it leak all the good juices. I'd be willing to give that a try on a couple of those stupid, tough "king steaks". I'll just braise or pot roast or stew most of the rest of it. If I can find a piece with a nice long stretch where the fibres all go the same direction, I can make a roulade and braise that. Roulades are fun and pretty.


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## Bolas De Fraile (Nov 18, 2010)

Tax, what color is the meat and fat,age will be a problem if it is a cow, I always thought that here in the UK cows are only slaughtered when the stop producing milk due to them being not able to calf,they are sold to the Knacker man for pet food, if it is bullock meat the color is still relevant as it is a sign of how long the meat has hung.
I buy my meat from a farm shop with it own abattoir, I buy a "choice cut" (the rump,sirloin, fillet on the T bone) it is weighed and payed for fresh then hung for 32 to 38 days, it loses about 15% of its weight in moisture evaporation, the meat goes from pink to dark red, the cut ends blacken, the flavor is fantastic,pre cooking  the meat is dry to the touch and you can cut it with your finger.
Calves of either sex are good eating.


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## Andy M. (Nov 18, 2010)

taxlady said:


> ...I don't understand why jaccard or forking wouldn't make it leak all the good juices...



If you jaccard the meat when it's raw, there will not be a problem with juices.  It's after cooking that a puncture will leak juices.


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## taxlady (Nov 18, 2010)

Andy M. said:


> If you jaccard the meat when it's raw, there will not be a problem with juices.  It's after cooking that a puncture will leak juices.



I did not know that.

My mum told me the opposite, but she used to cook liver for an hour


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## taxlady (Nov 18, 2010)

Bolas De Fraile said:


> Tax, what color is the meat and fat,age will be a problem if it is a cow, I always thought that here in the UK cows are only slaughtered when the stop producing milk due to them being not able to calf,they are sold to the Knacker man for pet food, if it is bullock meat the color is still relevant as it is a sign of how long the meat has hung.
> I buy my meat from a farm shop with it own abattoir, I buy a "choice cut" (the rump,sirloin, fillet on the T bone) it is weighed and payed for fresh then hung for 32 to 38 days, it loses about 15% of its weight in moisture evaporation, the meat goes from pink to dark red, the cut ends blacken, the flavor is fantastic,pre cooking  the meat is dry to the touch and you can cut it with your finger.
> Calves of either sex are good eating.



Good point about the colour. I can't really look at it now, 'cause all the beef is in the freezer wrapped in brown butcher paper. If I remember correctly, the meat and fat were the same colour as meat at the supermarket - medium dark red meat and slightly yellowish white fat. I haven't found any black bits that would indicate hanging, but they could have been trimmed off. I have no idea what this meat looked like before it was frozen. It's definitely not dry to the touch when I defrost it.

That meat from the farm shop sounds great. Is it expensive? Or do you get a good deal for buying a lot of meat at once? I've never seen anything like that here. Of course the province of Quebec is trying to (or maybe already did) get rid of all the small abbatoirs.   Don't get me started.


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## Bolas De Fraile (Nov 18, 2010)

Tax its about 30 to 40% cheaper than buying the premium grades in a quality supermarket, that includes a discount for buying the piece I butcher it at home.The meat is reared and sold  within 30 miles of the abattoir, the animals are not left in a field for days smelling the blood and hearing the noises of other beasts being slaughtered. That makes a big difference to the quality of the meat and to me.


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## taxlady (Nov 18, 2010)

Bolas De Fraile said:


> Tax its about 30 to 40% cheaper than buying the premium grades in a quality supermarket, that includes a discount for buying the piece I butcher it at home.The meat is reared and sold  within 30 miles of the abattoir, the animals are not left in a field for days smelling the blood and hearing the noises of other beasts being slaughtered. That makes a big difference to the quality of the meat and to me.



Cool 

The meat I got was probably slaughtered within 10 - 30 km of where it was reared, but about 100 km from where I live. Hmmm, that was in Ontario. Maybe I should try to find a farm store in Ontario, well, I really should look even closer to home, here in Quebec first.


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## Bolas De Fraile (Nov 19, 2010)

Tax, you should try to find a butcher near a supermarket meat packing factory that buys the off cuts.
I buy from mine fillet steak tails for £9.00 for three pounds, the supply is intermittent so I buy 12 lbs at a time. I foodsaver pack in 1lbs and freeze.


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## taxlady (Nov 25, 2010)

Thanks for the tip.

I'm still working on trying to find a meat packing factory in my area. Google isn't being really helpful. I just keep finding butcher shops and places that package prepared meat or non-meat food.


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## Andy M. (Nov 25, 2010)

taxlady said:


> Thanks for the tip.
> 
> I'm still working on trying to find a meat packing factory in my area. Google isn't being really helpful. I just keep finding butcher shops and places that package prepared meat or non-meat food.




You may be wasting your time.  Meat packers won't sell to you.

However, have you tried going to a butcher and asking them to order specific items for you?  Just because they don't stock an item doesn't mean they can't get it for you.


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## taxlady (Nov 25, 2010)

Andy M. said:


> You may be wasting your time.  Meat packers won't sell to you.
> 
> However, have you tried going to a butcher and asking them to order specific items for you?  Just because they don't stock an item doesn't mean they can't get it for you.



Andy, the idea was to find a butcher near the meat packer, but if I can't find the meat packer...

I'm not really looking for special cuts, just a way to get them cheaper. Around here the butcher shops tend to be more expensive than the grocery stores. I could ask at one grocery store where there is a "real butcher section". I can talk to the butchers. I have special ordered capon there in the past, but they don't know how much something will cost until they get it


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## Bigjim68 (Nov 25, 2010)

taxlady said:


> Andy, the idea was to find a butcher near the meat packer, but if I can't find the meat packer...
> 
> I'm not really looking for special cuts, just a way to get them cheaper. Around here the butcher shops tend to be more expensive than the grocery stores. I could ask at one grocery store where there is a "real butcher section". I can talk to the butchers. I have special ordered capon there in the past, but they don't know how much something will cost until they get it


I don't think you are going to find cheaper at a meat market (butcher shop).  If you can find a true butcher, rare these days, you will find quality, and you will be able to get the exact cut you want, but the cost is going to be at least as high, probably higher.  The best price/quality ratio I have found is at Costco.  I don't know about other membership stores, but assume they would be about equal. The trade off is that you will be buying large quantities, and you are on your own with choosing.

If you buy subprimals in Cryovac, you can age it yourself.  Choose an unbroken package, and leave in the refrigerator for a few weeks.  You will also pay 10-20% less for the meat than if the store sells it cut.


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## taxlady (Nov 25, 2010)

Bigjim68 said:


> I don't think you are going to find cheaper at a meat market (butcher shop).  If you can find a true butcher, rare these days, you will find quality, and you will be able to get the exact cut you want, but the cost is going to be at least as high, probably higher.  The best price/quality ratio I have found is at Costco.  I don't know about other membership stores, but assume they would be about equal. The trade off is that you will be buying large quantities, and you are on your own with choosing.



That would be my experience too. The only membership store around here seems to be Costco and I buy most of my meat there. We eat a lot of pork loin 



> If you buy subprimals in Cryovac, you can age it yourself.  Choose an unbroken package, and leave in the refrigerator for a few weeks.  You will also pay 10-20% less for the meat than if the store sells it cut.



When you write "Cryovac" do you mean the plastic wrap that was obviously done at a factory? The thick stuff that has seams melted into the sides or ends?


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## PrincessFiona60 (Nov 25, 2010)

taxlady said:


> When you write "Cryovac" do you mean the plastic wrap that was obviously done at a factory? The thick stuff that has seams melted into the sides or ends?


 
Yes, that is exactly what he is talking about.  I buy that, pork, when we make tamales!


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## Bigjim68 (Nov 25, 2010)

Cryovac is a trade name for the commercial version of the food saver vacuum pump.  The meat is packaged in a shrinkable bag, the air drawn out, and the package is sealed and shrunk with heat.  As long as the seal is intact, the meat will age without spoiling up to about 60 days from the date of packaging. The box is stamped with dae of packing.  If it is not available, assume a week or two.  If the seal breaks, aside from a mess in your refrigerator, the meat spoils in the same time as any other packaging.


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## taxlady (Nov 25, 2010)

How do I know if it is "Cryovac" or similar? If it looks the way I described above and doesn't seem to have any air?


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## taxlady (Jan 15, 2011)

buckytom said:


> taxy, do you have a jaccard? if not, you can always tenderize tougher meat by stabbing the heck out of it with a fork. and i mean go to town on it.
> 
> i've had shoe leather london broils and round steaks that i've made really tender by either a jaccard or forking.



I tried it once with a regular fork, but I don't think it was sharp enough.

Today I tried again with my big two pronged cooking fork. That worked fairly well. I could tell when stabbing the meat that this was a better implement. It helped a lot. Next time - more stabbings.

Thanks for the tip.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jan 15, 2011)

taxlady said:


> I tried it once with a regular fork, but I don't think it was sharp enough.
> 
> Today I tried again with my big two pronged cooking fork. That worked fairly well. I could tell when stabbing the meat that this was a better implement. It helped a lot. Next time - more stabbings.
> 
> Thanks for the tip.


 
Umm...the person who Googles for stabbings is going to wonder why they are directed to a cooking site...unless (gasp) they are a cannibal!


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## taxlady (Jan 15, 2011)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> Umm...the person who Googles for stabbings is going to wonder why they are directed to a cooking site...unless (gasp) they are a cannibal!


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