# Grilling Burger - First Time ?'s



## Mylegsbig

Do i need to brush some oil on the pit or can i just rub an onion like normally?

I've only grilled meats in the past that won't possibly fall apart when i flip them.  This is charcoal grilling, btw.

Don't want to ruin my dinner.

These will not be marinated or basted, and are 75/25 meat.

Thanks in advance.

Im kind of scared to brush oil because doesn't it burn and spit flames? lol.  Sorry for the noob questions.

cheers


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## Michael in FtW

Well, after you light your charcoal (I hope you use a chimney starter and not lighter fluid or self-lighting charcoal loaded with lighter fluid) and you spread your coals out and your grill is hot, and clean - take a paper towel and fold it a few times and hold it with tongs to make a disposable "brush" ... then either pour a little oil on it, or dip it in some oil, and brush the grill with it. Shouldn't be any flare-ups.

But, as much fat as your meat has - that would only be if you want to do it - I don't think it would be necessary. Having your grill clean is more important.

Use a spatula to turn your burgers and turn them perpendicular to the way the grill runs ... this will keep the edges from getting caught between the grill elements ... tongs or a fork are more likely to break your burgers.

Now, again, with 25% fat content .... have a water-gun or spray bottle with water handy to knock down the flare-ups you're going to get.


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## Mylegsbig

Michael, i'm new to Charcoal Grilling, i'm not aware of the method you speak of.  I have always just soaked the charcoal with fluid, let it sit for like 15 mins, and lit it up and waited until the coals got gray and the fire had died down and then grilled.

Can you clarify this concept to me friend?

"Use a spatula to turn your burgers and turn them perpendicular to the way the grill runs ... this will keep the edges from getting caught between the grill elements ... tongs or a fork are more likely to break your burgers."


btw - what do you think about letting your grill get hot and then scrubbing with an onion until clean?

also, what do you think is the max thickness you should have on charcoal grilled burgers?  are 6oz patties ok?

Cheers.


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## keltin

What kind of grill are you using? You say charcoal, so is it a Weber kettle or another domed type grill? The design of the dome grills prohibit flare ups while the lid is *on*. 

If it is a square type grill, or an open pit, you’re likely to have some problems with fatty meat like burgers and chicken quarters.

For you patties, just work them really well so that the meat is pressed together good. You don’t want to be able to see the individual shreds of meat, but instead want a homogeneous patty. If it’s loose and you can see the individual strands, it’s liable to break apart.

Don’t worry about greasing the grate. When your coals are ready, spread them and put the grate on and allow it to heat for 5 or so minutes. Drop the patties on the hot grate, and then cover the grill. A good sear and the fat from the burgers will cause them to naturally release when they are ready to flip......about 5 minutes of cooking. 

Flip them, then cover and cook another 5. When you flip them, it often helps to move them around to a different spot if they are real fatty. The fats can drop down and cool the coals directly under the patty (but that is likely to flare up when the lid comes off), and moving the patties to another spot where the grate is hot allows a good sear on the second side. 

When you lift the lid, depending on your coals and grill, it is liable to flare up...big time in some cases. Don’t sweat it. Just flip your burgers and cover the grill again. Once the lid is on, the flare up will die down. However, this only applies to a domed grill. If you’re using a square or open pit (or a gas grill for that matter) you’ll want to move the patties to an entirely new location where the fat hasn’t dripped down yet.

After 5 minutes on the second side, depending on the size of your burgers, you’re done or nearly done. Press lightly on the burger (don’t mash on it as this will squeeze out the juices), and see if it’s firm. If it is thick and feels squishy like a water bed, it’s not done. A meat thermometer is your best friend at this point if you aren’t used to judging doneness by feel.  If they need a little more time to fully cook, flip them again, and let them cook a few more minutes.


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## Mylegsbig

Let me find a picture of my grill for you guys.  It's a little fellow.  It's shaped like a drum.







Its like that, but only one drum, and the drum is very small.


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## Mylegsbig

Also, there is no chimney, only two valves on the side.  One valve is lower, near the coals, and one is higher, near the grate.


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## keltin

Oh, it’s a barrel grill. You’re gonna’ get flare ups no matter what on one of those.  

In that case, the easiest thing to do is to spread your coals out into two piles that are somewhat separated from one another. Grill on the first side over one pile, then move the patties (with a metal spatula) to the other pile of coals. I wouldn’t suggest using a spray bottle as this can cause ash to fly up and cover your meat. It’s best to move the patties to a different spot that isn’t being fueled by the burning fat. 

That grill is large enough (long from left to right) for the two pile trick, and it saves you a lot of headaches.


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## Mystic

I always lightly oil the burgers before putting them on the grill.  Actually, I oil one side of the burger and put that side down.  Before flipping the burger, I'll oil the second side.  

I like my burgers thick and with a hot grill, it's easy to burn the outside of a burger waiting for the inside to cook.  To avoid this problem, build a two zone fire with hot coals on just half the grill.  Then put the burgers on the hot side, let the first side get a good sear then turn it over and sear the second side.  Then  move it to the side without the coals and let it finish cooking there with the cover on the grill.  This way, the inside is perfectly cooked and the outside isn't burned.

Michael


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## Mylegsbig

I have no idea how to regulate the temperature on my coals.

This is like my fourth time grilling.

The first three i did fajitas.


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## Michael in FtW

This is a chimney starter and how to use it. I don't like the taste that charcoal lighter adds to my food. You can get one at Ace Hardware for about $10 .... or Lowe's, Home Depot, Sears, etc. 

As for the onion - I've never tried to clean a grill that way ... but it's an idea I'll have to try.

The two "valves" are vents that control the airflow ... the more open they are the more airflow. With the right airflow you could have a flareup with the lid closed. If nothing else - have a bowl of water handy and use your fingers to sprinkle water on the flames if they are a problem.

You want to flip your burgers at a 90º angle to the direction the way the grates run on your grill - but if the burgers are larger than the space between the grates it's not as much of a problem. But basically - if your grates run from left to right - slice your spatula in from the side and flip it L-R ... if your grates run from the front to back - slide your spatula in from the front, turn 90º and flip it over. Of course - if you raise it up enough and flip it quick - that shouldn't be a problem, either.


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## keltin

In that type of grill, it’s hard to regulate temp. If your vents are properly positioned with one down low on one side of the grill (say left side) and one up high on the other side, you can try closing the bottom vent to stop air in-take. But don’t closes the top one. There will be a lot of smoke that needs to be evacuated, and you don’t want that to build up too heavily and taint the taste your burgers.

When the smoke builds up, it will replace the oxygen in the unit and disallow further flare ups. BUT, that type of grill is so large, that this usually doesn’t work....but that is the principal behind the dome grills. 

The absolute safest thing to do is as Mystic said. Put your coals on one side (let’s say left) and leave the right said clear as if you were smoking something. Put the burgers over the coals, and once they flare, move them over to the cool side, close the lid and wait for the fire to die down, then grill the second side of the burgers. 

Doing it this way ensures you always have a safe place to go with the meat (meaning no scorched burgers), and you are constantly cooking even if it is with indirect heat. It takes a little longer with this method (not much, but a little) but if you’re burgers are really thick, you’ll have to do it this way any how in order to avoid a scorched outside and rare inside.


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## buzzard767

Unlike a steak, the inside of the burger has been exposed to the world and you don't know what might be in there. Rare burgers are not a good idea. Cook 90 seconds, flip, 90 seconds, flip, 90 seconds, flip, 90 seconds. This will ensure the bugs are dead.

I'm just the messenger on this one. The info came from a cooking school at a restaurant here in Naples.

Buzz


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## keltin

Michael in FtW said:


> You want to flip your burgers at a 90º angle to the direction the way the grates run on your grill - but if the burgers are larger than the space between the grates it's not as much of a problem. But basically - if your grates run from left to right - slice your spatula in from the side and flip it L-R ... if your grates run from the front to back - slide your spatula in from the front, turn 90º and flip it over.


 
OH! Now I get what you were saying. You’re flipping the burgers in such a way so that they can’t ever hit the grates like a quarter goes into a coin slot!


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## Mylegsbig

wow Keltin, i never noticed Auron in your avatar! Sweet!

Also, my grill is very small.  I can grasp the concept Michael is saying, but don't think it will be an issue.

Guys, is this too much, or too little charcoal for the size of my grill?

Also, what are the advantages of closing the grill?  It's a windy day outside, so i think i might either way.  Here are the pics.  Any charcoal suggestions would be great.  It is regular charcoal with hints of mesquite chips inside.


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## Michael in FtW

You got it, keltin!


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## Mylegsbig

btw - they are shaped as a pyramid structure right now hard to portray that angle in the pics.

Keltin - Remember these guys?


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## Mylegsbig

Guys if the wind is kind of blowing and flames arent too high should i close the lid while the coals are burning and im waiting for them to turn gray?  I dont want my fire to die.


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## Michael in FtW

Leave the lid open while the coals burn down - and make sure the bottom vent is all the way open. 

Wow - I haven't seen one of those little New Braunfels barrel grills in a while! Yeah - you have plenty of charcoal!


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## Mylegsbig

Michael man this is the first this has happened.  My coals are turning slightly ashy but my fire will simply not stay lit.  Im gonna let the fluid soak in for awhile rather than just douse it and try to light it...This is the last of my lighter fluid pretty much...this really sucks hard.  I was counting on this flame to cook not only my burgers, but to roast poblanos and jalapenos for my salsa as well.

both of my dishes appear to be ruined.  this sucks hard.


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## keltin

Ahhhh, another FF fan! Never thought I’d bump into FF fans here!

How are you going to light your coals. You really want to leave the lid open as they light. This is for maximum air flow and you keep from flaming the lid of your grill. If you don’t have a chimney, then stack the coals in a pyramid shape, douse with some fluid, and wait 15 – 30 seconds, but no longer. The longer you wait, the deeper the fluid soaks into your coals. If it doesn’t soak in, then it will burn off as they light leaving you untainted coals.

If you have an old coffee can (the big one) you can fill it full of coals, add some fluid, and toss in a match and walk away. Guaranteed light every time. In the pyramid configuration, as long as the bottom coals catch well, it wont matter if it's windy....in fact that can help. The coals don’t get “lit” by the big flames from the lighter fluid. That initial burn is only to get them started and glowing. Once a few on bottom are glowing red or have a few spots that are glowing red, they will continue to smolder and spread that “fire” to the coals they are touching. For this reason, make sure you squirt some fluid into the pyramid pile so that the bottom coals get soaked.

Once they are lit and spread, and you start grilling, you definitely want to close the lid of your grill so that you retain the heat for better cooking and can also control the air flow somewhat.


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## keltin

Oh, and don’t EVER put lighter fluid on smoldering coals!! Seriously. The stuff vaporizes and is nearly as combustionable as gasoline! I’m not kidding. The vapors (looks like steam) spread all through out the grill and are extremely flammable. Even if you tossed a match from a safe distance, the fireball from that is something to be reckoned with!!!! 

You don’t need an open flame to light your coals. If some on the bottom have “caught" and are red, it will spread throughout your pyramid. I promise! Just give it some time. Eventually, you'll see flames again as they get close to done and ash over!


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## Mylegsbig

disaster.  i failed. out of fluid and i let them soak for too long apparently.

first time this has happened to me, what a letdown

are you saying next time i should just spray fluid on the bottom of the pyramid, a hefty amount, then stack the rest on top of that, lightly sprayed, and light towards the bottom first?


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## keltin

Just build your pyramid as tightly as you can, and squirt the fluid all over but make sure to “aim” in between some of the briquettes so that you get fluid inside the pile. 

If the coals you have now are still stacked and smoldering, they will light. If you put your hand over them, can you feel any heat deep in the stack?


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## Mylegsbig

hey guys look i snapped a pic..its been almost 10 minutes since i thought it went out...but there is still smoke coming out and it looks like some are gray...what should i do???? should i close the lid to make sure they dont go out?  is there still hope?? here is pic...... please help!


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## keltin

I can’t see the PIC here at work due to IT filters, but if they are piled up, and there is smoke coming from the pile (even just a little), that means the bottom coals did catch. That also means those coals will spread the fire up through the rest of the pyramid. So, in about 15 minutes, you should see flames again as the stack gets hot and begins to ash over. So, leave the lid open and let that pile of coals do it’s thing!


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## Mylegsbig

Wow!!! Keltin you were right!!!

The fire has lit back up again!  I stacked those coals that had fallen off the pyramid, which had become more of a plateau, so they too would catch.  Then a big puff of smoke flew and the fire got even bigger!!! Sweeeeeeet

What percentage of the coals should be gray before i can throw my burgers on?


btw Keltin - The pics i posted earlier were of Kain from FFIV and Locke from FFVI.


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## keltin

Now that the flames have broken through again, give it about 10 minutes, and you’ll start to see ash forming. No need to wait till they are completely ashed, just a little white for the most part.

At that point, spread the coals out, and arrange them with tongs or a long iron rod (an oven mitt helps to protect the hand holding the tongs....this is hot work!) so that all of the coals are touching one another. As long as they are touching, they will easily continue to burn. So, even if there are some spots that are still black after you have spread them, don’t sweat it. Just spread them out in a single layer, and bunch them a bit so that they are all touching one another.

Once they are spread, put the grate over the coals and then wait about 5 minutes. By that time, they will be completely ashed over, but very hot (you’ll still see small reddish/white flames). You can grill at this point, but flare ups are to be expected. Since it’s hamburger patties, I’d close the lid at this point (but don't put the patties on yet) and wait another five minute. This will let the coals cool a bit, and get the grate really hot for a good sear.


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## Michael in FtW

buzzard767 said:
			
		

> Unlike a steak, the inside of the burger has been exposed to the world and you don't know what might be in there. Rare burgers are not a good idea.


 
Yep - that's why you can safely eat a rare steak where only the outside has been seared to kill the surface bacteria - but hamburger is a potential petri dish of e-coli and/or salmonilla that needs to be cooked to an internal temp sufficient to kill the bugs that were on the surface but during the grinding process get mixed up with the insides. You can't go by look, or feel, you have to use a thermometer and check for an internal temp of 160ºF. 



			
				buzzard767 said:
			
		

> Cook 90 seconds, flip, 90 seconds, flip, 90 seconds, flip, 90 seconds. This will ensure the bugs are dead.


 
The only way to insure all the little nsaties in hamburger are dead is by cooking to 160ºF - confirmed by a thermometer. The flipping every 90-seconds doesn't ensure anything ... and Harold McGee in his book _The Curious Cook_ demonstrated that frequent flipping is not necessary nor did it speed up the cooking. 

But ... it makes the boss think you are staying busy ....


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## pacanis

Wow. This is quite the saga you guys got goin' here.....
Hey myleg, do you live close to a Hardee's? 

I want pics of those burgers when they're done 

FWIW, I flip mine when I think they've "released" from the grill, which is usually when the top of the burgers starts to change color like they're cooking, but it's still basically red. I never tried oil or onion on anything with fat in it.  
After you've flipped them once, start looking for the red juice to start rising to the top and flip them again.  In a short time the juice rising on that side should be clear. They're done.
And DON'T be pressing on them with your flipper! Leaving the juice inside is a good thing.


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## GB

Michael in FtW said:


> frequent flipping is not necessary nor did it speed up the cooking.


Frequent flipping is also a culprit in dry burgers. cook the burger halfway through then flip once and only once and finish cooking.  this will help you retain as much moisture as possible.


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## Michael in FtW

pacanis said:
			
		

> Wow. This is quite the saga you guys got goin' here.....


 
LOL ... don't you just love how something as simple as grilling a burger can be elevated to the level of seemingly impossible?


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## Mylegsbig

Hey Hey Hey! Easy now!

Would have taken some pics fella, but the burgers got gobbled up.

They were solid in flavor, but i lost heat so i had to finish them under the broiler.

No biggie, came out good.

Next time should be much easier.

Thanks so much guys!


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## keltin

Well, I can finally see the pics. That IS a small grill. It looks like a firebox, but there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m not hating. In fact, one of my grills is a Smokey Joe, Weber’s smallest, and it’s great for cooking for two people. A half chicken on that thing is perfect, as well are two steaks 6 burgers, etc, etc, etc.

The only thing I did see wrong is there is no charcoal grate in the bottom of it. Probably designed that way (as opposed to having been lost), but I’d change that ASAP. It’s one of the reasons you lost heat this time around…..without good airflow, the coals choked and died out. 

They probably don’t make a grate for this rig, but you can improvise by getting a cheap Gas Grill cooking grate (a cheap one) and putting it in there. Those are rectangular and should work nicely if you shop around and find the right size. If you’ve got a cutting wheel for your drill, then it doesn’t matter what size you get since you can customize it!

A grate in the bottom will lift the charcoal off the floor and allow that lower air vent to bring in air _under_ the charcoal where it will then rise and fan the coals. With the charcoal laying on the floor like that, the air just swirls around the charcoal, and worse, gets heated and rises above the coals and doesn’t fan them.

One of the biggest flaws with the old ECBs was that they just threw the coals into a closed pan (basically a water pan) with no ventilation and no clearance from the floor. A mod that added ventilation and raised the coals off the floor drastically changed the way those things cooked. 

If you’re going to use this particular grill much, give some serious thought to modifying it with a lower charcoal grate to get your coals off the floor. You will see an amazing difference in performance!


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## Mylegsbig

Keltin, dude, it DID come with a second grate.  But there was no mounts on the bottom, it would just rest there...so i assumed it was a backup grate for the top.

Wow, thanks for the tip man.  I'm gonna use the bottom grate next time.


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## Mylegsbig

Now that i look at it - it's too small to fit at the top.

Again, many many thanks.


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## keltin

Mylegsbig said:


> Keltin, dude, it DID come with a second grate. But there was no mounts on the bottom, it would just rest there...so i assumed it was a backup grate for the top.
> 
> Wow, thanks for the tip man. I'm gonna use the bottom grate next time.


 
Excellent! I’ve seen many grills that allow the charcoal grate to just rest against the sides. They expect you to properly position it (they don’t place pegs but it should rest with no angles, make it level) but the shape of the cooker  pretty much handles that. The grate is rectangular right, so it should sit perfectly without moving. Just move it around a bit after positioning to make sure it’s level, and you’re good to go. 

Glad to hear it has one! Use it and I guarantee you will see a difference!


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## pacanis

Come to The Darkside
We have propane here......


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## Mylegsbig

LOL pacanis.


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## AllenOK

Legsbig, you might want to serious consider getting a charcoal chimney.  You pour charcoal into the top, and either wad up newspaper in the bottom, or take a few pieces of charcoal, soak with lighter fluid, then light.  It will get all the charcoal caught really quickly.


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## Mylegsbig

thanks allen, ill be getting a whole new rig as soon as i get ahold of some cash.

Couple questions, i know at least a couple of you are bored at work 

1.  Can you guys reccomend an online site with some amazing high quality charcoal?

2.  Can you guys give me any tips for grilling up some bone in - skin on chicken breasts? Baste them? open or closed? etc...turn them?

3.  Can you guys give me any tips for grilling up some 1" thick sirloin steaks on this thing?


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## keltin

I don’t’ know abut the charcoal sites. I just use Kingsford from Wal-Mart or Sams.

Grilling bone-in chicken breasts is incredibly easy. The bone side has almost no meat, and as such, is of little consequence. You the chicken breasts should spend the majority of the time on the grill bone side down. That side will shield the meat and diffuse the heat for even cooking. Start with bone side down for a few minutes, then flip the breast for skin side down after the coals have cooled a bit. Leave it there for about 5 minutes and flip back. Basically, you just put the breast skin side down for 3-5 minutes at a time (depending on the heat of your coals) until the skin is nice and crisp and has good color. Once the skin looks like you want it to, leave it bone side down until the internal temp is 165. Takes about 20 minutes, give or take.

Steaks are even easier. Build you fire and make it hot! Have your steaks at room temperature, and then throw them on the grill and let them sit there. Don’t mess with them. When they hit the grill, the meat will “grab” grate and will basically be stuck to the grate. This is fine. After 4 minutes so (depending on how hot your fire is) the steak will let go of the grate (just push on the edge of the steak a bit to see if it has let go). Once that happens, it’s time to flip. At 1” thick, you need 4-5 minutes per side of grill time for medium rare. So throw the steaks on, leave them be, flip once after 4 minutes, leave them be for another 4 minutes, then remove from the grill and let them rest for 3 or so minutes. Easy stuff. 

If the steaks haven’t let go after 5 minutes, don’t sweat it, but flip them anyway. If they were still holding on to the grate, it just means the fire wasn’t hot enough for a perfect sear, but you still don’t want to leave them on more than 5-6 minutes on one side if you’re shooting for medium rare.

In both cases (chicken and steak), you want to close the lid on the grill while your grilling.


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## Mylegsbig

Keltin my friend, i could not find the breasts i desired.  I had to settle for a lesser kind.

Also, the steak is slightly marinated in a plastic bag, little soy, little worchestershire.  I never do this when i pan sear / finish in oven, but i figured for some grilling, what the ****.  I assume i just pat them really dry?

As for the searing technique, i don't know if i'll be able to pull that off.  Should i put more charcoal than normal for a hotter fire?  Or does it have to do with timing?  IE - Put the steaks on the grill as soon as the fires go down?  Not wait for awhile like i did my burgers?

Keltin - back to the chicken breast.   There is bone on the underside, but i don't think all of the bone.  One half of the underside has skinless meat exposed.  The other side is completely skinless.  They are called "Skinless Split Breasts with Ribs"

Does this change your cooking suggestion any as there is no skin to crisp up?

Also, can i baste these badboys? I bought some amazing BBQ Sauce.

Cheers

btw - I'm shooting for medium.   Maybe 8 minutes a side for medium?


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## keltin

Are you going to cook the chicken and steaks at the same time? 

For the chicken breast, why not finish boning them and make them boneless. Without the full ribcage and the skin, its’ going to be trick to get a prefect breast with only partial bone. It’s easy to bone them, so that’s what I’d do. 

Once you have them boneless, build a regular fire. No need to go for super hot. Once the coals are ready, brush the breasts with some oil and then throw them on, but put them on toward the outside of the coals an not dead centered over the coals in the middle of the grate. Then throw the steaks onto the middle of the grate and close the lid.

Cook for 5 minutes then flip everything. Cook for another four minutes and check your steaks. Do you have a meat thermometer? You’re shooting for 130 degrees. If they are there, then take them off to rest. Otherwise leave them a bit longer. Also at this time, flip the breasts once more (after you have tended the steaks), and then cover in BBQ sauce if desired. The breast should cook another 5 or so minutes and they should be done. Check their temp, and take them off at 165. 

Depending on your fire and grill, you need 4-5 minutes per side for a medium rare steak, so total cooking time of 8-10 minutes. The _boneless_ breasts need approximately 15 minutes, so 5 minutes a side and then flip. Cover with sauce the last 5 minutes. Check the temp to be sure it is 160-165 before taking them off.


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## Mylegsbig

awesome, will take some pics and let you know how it turns out....


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## Mylegsbig

UPDATE:


Stacked my coals in a perfect pyramid by hand.  Put down lower fire grate.  Inserted match in middle of stack leading to center of pyramid.  Lightly covered coals with fluid.  Instantly ignited match and threw to stack.  Lit right up like a charm.  3 minutes later i checked it out and there is already a fire at the bottom coals.

This thread has really showed me what's up.  Steak is cooling to room temperature.

More to follow.  Wish me luck!  I feel alot more confident this time around.


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## keltin

Sounds like all is going perfectly! Great job!


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## Mylegsbig

I left the steak in the hotspot for too long.  next time will find hotspot, sear, and move. steak came out well done, not good.

But the chicken...that's a different story... excellent, amazing chicken breasts.


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## Mylegsbig

dinner time


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## vagriller

MLB,
Too bad you don't live closer to me. I would deliver my charcoal chimney to you personally. I can't stress how much easier it makes charcoal grilling. No lighter fluid, and the coals are ready in half the time! Spend the $10 and get one. Walmart, HD, and Lowes carry them. Since I mostly use gas, the chimney sits there in the shed collecting dust.


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## Mylegsbig

I hear you chief.  I'd love to give one a try.

I already went and looked at grills today.  

I found one for 100 bucks that has two racks, a chimney, and two wooden shelves.

I'ma pick it up next week.

Cheers


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## keltin

Wow, those look great!!! Fantastic job. That is a product that a veteran griller would turn out. Here’s a big two thumbs up and resounding CONGRATS! 

A most excellent job!!! 

Sorry about the steak, but I’m sure they still tasted good. But you know, typically, the chicken breast are the harder thing to do! And you did a mighty fine job, plus you already have a working plan for your rig and steaks!! I’m impressed! Keep it up!


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## vagriller

Mylegsbig said:


> I hear you chief. I'd love to give one a try.
> 
> I already went and looked at grills today.
> 
> I found one for 100 bucks that has two racks, a chimney, and two wooden shelves.
> 
> I'ma pick it up next week.
> 
> Cheers


 
When my wife got mine last year she found a 3 burner + side burner all stainless model for $169. I haven't seen one since for such a good deal.


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## keltin

OH, and did you notice the difference the charcoal grate made?


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## Mylegsbig

Keltin, thanks for the props my friend! I have a few years experience in the kitchen, but i have never lived in a house, hence, my bbq inexperience.

I learned more in this thread than i've ever known.

Great stuff.  Thanks so much for all of your help.


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## Mylegsbig

keltin said:


> OH, and did you notice the difference the charcoal grate made?



lol......to say the least man.  Straight up, it was instantly noticeable..within 5 minutes of lighting it.


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## keltin

Mylegsbig said:


> Keltin, thanks for the props my friend! I have a few years experience in the kitchen, but i have never lived in a house, hence, my bbq inexperience.
> 
> I learned more in this thread than i've ever known.
> 
> Great stuff. Thanks so much for all of your help.


 
Excellent! I'm very thrilled for you, and even though I wasn't planning on grilling tonight, just looking at your results is stirring my urge for the fire! I'm thrilled this worked out for you, and you seem to have a firm handle on it, so keep it up my friend!


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## Mylegsbig

Yeah man, I have a feeling it's going to become an obsession.

I can't wait to get some gourmet charcoal and a real BBQ pit.

BBQ is so cheap, fun, time consuming, and delicious, i'm just regretful i couldn't have gotten started early.

I was just never a homeowner till now.  I'm only 26, so no big loss.  Most of my friends can't even cook.


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## keltin

Mylegsbig said:


> Yeah man, I have a feeling it's going to become an obsession.
> 
> I can't wait to get some gourmet charcoal and a real BBQ pit.
> 
> BBQ is so cheap, fun, time consuming, and delicious, i'm just regretful i couldn't have gotten started early.
> 
> I was just never a homeowner till now. I'm only 26, so no big loss. Most of my friends can't even cook.


 
It can definitely become an obsession! But a good one! 

I just showed DW your pics of the chicken breasts and she said “Those look like yours”, then she noticed the tortillas and decided we need to do that! So we’ll be getting some tortillas tomorrow and trying this out!


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## keltin

Oh, and if by gourmet charcoal you mean lump, be careful. That stuff is very flavorful and nice, but it burns HOT and fast. Personally, I wouldn’t use it except for steaks for a fast and hot fire. Controlling temp on that stuff is a bit harder than on briquettes, but the flavor is a bit stronger since it’s closer to pure wood.


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## Mylegsbig

Oh i've used lump charcoal, like where it just looks like chunks of black wood?

I was more thinking normal style charcoal friend, but a better brand, better materials, infused with something better, i don't know.  I mean there has to be something better than the crap i'm using.


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## Mylegsbig

The time i tried to use that lump charcoal(im assuming that's what it was, it said mesquite chunks)

It was hard as **** to get it lit, and yeah it burned up, someone i was talking to said that you're supposed to mix that kind of charcoal with briquettes rather than using it alone?

any truth to that?


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## keltin

Mylegsbig said:


> Oh i've used lump charcoal, like where it just looks like chunks of black wood?
> 
> I was more thinking normal style charcoal friend, but a better brand, better materials, infused with something better, i don't know. I mean there has to be something better than the crap i'm using.


 
Yep, what you described is lump. Partially burned wood.

Personally, of all the charcoal briquettes I’ve tried, you simply can’t go wrong with Kingsford briquettes. If you’ve got them, you’ll be fine. From there you can add wood chips or even foiled packs of pellets. But Kingsford briquettes won’t let you down.


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## keltin

Mylegsbig said:


> The time i tried to use that lump charcoal(im assuming that's what it was, it said mesquite chunks)
> 
> It was hard as **** to get it lit, and yeah it burned up, someone i was talking to said that you're supposed to mix that kind of charcoal with briquettes rather than using it alone?
> 
> any truth to that?


 
Depends on what it was. If it was pure wood chunks, then yeah you need charcoal to help it out. But if it was lump coal burned down (black) from mesquite, then it is fine by itself. And hot! Great for steaks! 

Technically, you CAN make a little bon-fire out of pure mesquite or other hardwood chunks and grill on the embers, I’ve done it, but it takes forever to burn the wood down (which is fun in its own right), and it’s rather wasteful considering the price of a bag of those chunks……which were meant for smoking.


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## Mylegsbig

They have Kingsford around here.  If you say those are good enough, i'll take your word for it.

Can you reccomend something i can throw in with them to add some punch?

Also, what would you reccomend i try out for my first grilled Pork dish?

Do you ever do any pork?

Not up for smoking yet, not by a longshot.  Just somethin grilled.

Cheers.


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## keltin

Mylegsbig said:


> They have Kingsford around here. If you say those are good enough, i'll take your word for it.
> 
> Can you reccomend something i can throw in with them to add some punch?
> 
> Also, what would you reccomend i try out for my first grilled Pork dish?
> 
> Do you ever do any pork?
> 
> Not up for smoking yet, not by a longshot. Just somethin grilled.
> 
> Cheers.


 
For a little kick, you can throw some wood chips that have been soaked in water on the coals or use a foil pack that has smoke pellets in it. They sell these at Wal-Mart on other stores.

Further, the fat drippings from your meat vaporizes and add to the flavor. 

Also, add a sauce that drips down off the meat and hits the coals….well that adds to the flavor of the smoke that is rising! I’ve even seen an “old timer’ do a weird trick, and while I’m not endorsing this, I will say that I have seen it done….and the meat DID have a little extras something to it. He would take his favorite liquor (Whiskey usually) and drizzle it over the meat so that it flowed and hit the coals. The whiskey vaporized and made smoke which hit the meat. Tasted pretty dang good. 

Just remember that grilling is fast……as you saw tonight. You usually don’t have a lot of time to play with smoke flavor while grilling. 

Try a half chicken that you split yourself so that all the bone is in place. Those take about 35 to 45 minutes depending on fire and grill, and on those you can play with smoke. 

Otherwise, get your smoke going (wet wood or foil pack) _before_ you add your meat to the grill, and then just grill as usual in the presence of smoke.


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## Mylegsbig

cheers  will give it a shot...im going to walmart today so i'll look for those smoke pellets...


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## vagriller

Mylegsbig said:


> I hear you chief. I'd love to give one a try.
> 
> I already went and looked at grills today.
> 
> I found one for 100 bucks that has two racks, a chimney, and two wooden shelves.
> 
> I'ma pick it up next week.
> 
> Cheers


 
So the new one will be a charcoal grill too?


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## Barb L.

Mylegsbig said:


> They have Kingsford around here.  If you say those are good enough, i'll take your word for it.
> 
> Can you reccomend something i can throw in with them to add some punch?
> 
> Also, what would you reccomend i try out for my first grilled Pork dish?
> 
> Do you ever do any pork?
> 
> Not up for smoking yet, not by a longshot.  Just somethin grilled.
> 
> Cheers.



You mentioned pork - can't beat a pork tenderloin on the grill.  Use your favorite rub (I use salt,pepper, garlic) over med hot, only takes about 5 mins. on each four sides.  So tender and good !  Our favorite!


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## Mylegsbig

Wow.....Barb that is what i'm gonna make for dinner tomm...i hope i can find one down here.  I was thinking the same thing, but for some reason i was thinking it would take forever.  I bought a really cool rub today, has some amazing ingredients in it.

Vagriller - Yes.  I'm going charcoal only.  If i don't want to use a charcoal fire, i will cook inside.  


Tonight's Menu:

Jalapeno Sausage & Fajita tacos

Manchego stuffed jalapeno peppers wrapped in bacon

All cooked on the pit.

Will post pics, of course.

Any suggestions on the stuffed jalapenos?

Cheers


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## beerco

Mylegsbig said:


> Any suggestions on the stuffed jalapenos?


 
Don't know what Manchango is but... I would recommend using regular sliced bacon as opposed to the thick stuff. The thick stuff takes for ever to crisp up.

For the peppers, build the fire off to one side and put the peppers on the other. A few wood chips on the coals will be nice for flavor. Shoot for a temp fo about 300 for an hour or so.

BTW for cooking tenderloin, I can't recommend enough using a thermometer to check temp. I like to use a probe thermometer (partly because I experiment with temperature) and I pull em at around 140 to 145o.  

For pork chops and steaks you can use the touch method for checking doneness but I find that loins are too thick to be able to tell what's going on in the center just by touching.


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## Michael in FtW

Manchego is an aged sheep's milk cheese from Spain.


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## Mylegsbig

That's the thing.  That is the way i know of Manchego.  It was a harder cheese...I had it with champagne a few times in Houston.

But this is a different cheese...It's called Manchego, but it is a melting cheese from Mexico.

It tastes kind of like Oaxaca to me, but a little stronger.


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## AllenOK

Legs,

Sorry I haven't been able to check this thread as much as I would have liked to.  I'm on dial-up now, and can only get online every couple days or so.

Go over to the BBQ board, and look for a post I did earlier this year, about smoking some meat.  It'll have lots of big pictures, of my grill/smoker rig, as well as a good description of my smoking process.

The grill I'm using is the "Char-Griller" (NOT a Char-Broil).  I got it from Lowe's.  I ended up buying the Side Fire Box for smoking a couple years after I first bought the grill, although you don't need the SFB.  I like my grill for several reasons.  One of those is that the fire-grate is adjustable in height.  From what I saw of your grill, you can't adjust the distance between the cooking surface and the fire-grate.  While not necessary, it does help.  You might want to look for an adjustable fire-grate on your rig.

When I grill, I use a mix of Cowboy-brand lump hardwood charcoal, and Kingsford briquettes.  I don't really care for the ash and off-taste that briquette smoke gives, but, briquettes burn longer and steadier than lump hardwood does.  So, I mix them, and try to get the best of both worlds.

If you want to add a little more kick, keltin was right on about the foil packet idea for generating smoke.  I used to do that to smoke foods.  I would buy a bag of Hickory chips (available at hardware stores, and probably Wal-Mart as well), soak the chips for 30 minutes, then wrap them up in several layers of foil.  Poke a few holes in the foil, lay it on the coals, and you're ready to go.  Heck, I've even seen bags of wood chips made from old barrels from Mr. Daniel's distillery (haven't used those).

When I grill bone-in chicken, or pork, I like to soak the meat in a flavored brine.  This helps add moisture to the meat, as well as flavor.  There are many threads about brines on this website.

And keep asking questions.  That's the best way to learn.

BTW, good lookin' chicken breasts!


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## Mylegsbig

hey Allen, thanks for all of the info my man.  we'll see what i can get going on


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## kitchenelf




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## Phil

*Hey Big leg....*

You bought a smoker, not a grill. If you want to use the fire box as a grill, go to Home Depot, or such, and buy yourself a grate to fit over the coals on the fire box. They even have Teflon coated grates that don't stick as much. If this has already been suggested, "oops". I didn't have time to read all. And, yes, close the top while grillin' to avoid a fire under the meat. Later.


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## bknox

Seems like you have some great advice on cooking one of my favorite foods already.

One thing I have started doing in the past years is making the patties and making them a bit thinner in the middle. When they cook and swell a little they will even out. I also love stuffing cheese in my burgers or blending the ground steak with hot peppers, cracked peper or herbs. Now I want a hamburger!


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## SmartTips

It does look like there are plenty of posts but couldn't help to agree with Bknox above mentioning to put an indent in the middle for a flatter pattie.

This is how I do it for a good shaped patty.

I take about a 1/2 pound of meat (size of a tennis ball) roll it into a ball and then press down whith my palms into a flatter cake. 

Then throw it onto a cutting board and do it again. It doesn't have to be perfect. I make the patties about 1 inch thick and the diameter 1/2 inch wider than the buns your going to be using to account for the burger shrinkage when grilling them. 


When making the patty use a spatula to pull in the sides and make it rounder. This also keeps the meat together better. Just work it to the approximate dimensions above, tighten it up on the sides, and voila the patties are ready for the grill.

And as BKnox mentions burgers usually always swell in the middle when grilled. To help ward this off put a depression in the middle top of the patty before throwing it on. 

I place all the patties on a plate and stack them with wax paper between layers so they don't stick.  Then it's time to take a walk to the grill!

I live in Philadelphia and the grilling burgers has slowed down because of winter.  I think I'm the only one on my street that has cooked them in the last 2 weeks.  Enjoy!


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## Joshatdot

Not to bump and old post..but I make mine like this:

1/2 lb beef (I usually get the cheepest/higher % fat stuff)
Grill Mates Montreal Steak Seasoning
Some Powdered Red Pepper Seeds

In a 2 or 3 qt bowl put the beef in, mash it down to fill in the bottom of the bowl level.  Sprinkle enuff Grill Mates to evenly cover the meat, then dash in about 4 or 5 of the powdered red pepper seeds.  Mix it all up & ball it up, and flatten it down till about 1/2 in bigger than the bun.

On my grill it's about 2 min on each side, flipping it 3 times (2 mins each side 2 times) and on the last flip add cheese.


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