# No kids, how come?



## suziquzie (Jul 3, 2008)

The baby borrowers got me thinking...
For those of you with no children, and no intent on having them.... why?
I get when you can't, you can't, or a bad relationship.... but my brother and SIL have decided not to, and I'm not sure why. 
Yeah, they are loud and seem to interrupt things alot, but it's also the best thing I ever did!
Not passing judgement one bit.... just curious.


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## Saphellae (Jul 3, 2008)

I used to be one of those people who said I never wanted kids.  Nick has changed my mind though.

From my point of view, I didn't want to give up my freedom. Kids mean ALOT of dedication and time and patience (as Suzi often reminds us!!).    I wanted to be able to travel if I wanted, go away for a weekend if I chose to, lay in bed on a Sunday morning.

But, now that I've found someone I want to spend the rest of my life with, I want to share more with him - raising a child.


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## buckytom (Jul 3, 2008)

i've found that this is often a very sore subject, as childless people feel they are being judged like they're not living a full life.
sometimes, you just never meet the right person with which to have children. i applaud people who realize the sacrifice, as well as all of the other factors involved in properly rearing a child, and decide not to bring a life into the world just to screw it up. it's not selfishness, as is so often assumed. in fact, it's selflessness. not having the "i want" syndrome, then giving up on the kid when the reality sinks in.
far too many people use their genitalia and hormones to determine if they should have kids, not their brains.


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## ronjohn55 (Jul 3, 2008)

No kids... Just hasn't happened yet. That's all.


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## sattie (Jul 3, 2008)

No kids, our personal choice.... but it can always change.


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## corazon (Jul 3, 2008)

I don't think that dh was intent on having kids, then surprise surprise, we got pregnant.  Now he wants 10 kids!
I think you never realize how incredible having kids is until you have your own.  It's the most powerful love I have ever felt and will ever feel.  
Yes, it does require time and dedication but that is a small price to pay for the happiness they bring.


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## GB (Jul 3, 2008)

I have the utmost respect for anyone who makes the decision not to have kids. Deciding to have kids was the single most important weighty intense decision I have ever made and probably ever will make. Too many people these days do not give it the thought it requires before having children. For those that are smart enough to know that they do not want kids and make the conscious decision to take steps not to have them I think that is great that you know you don't want them and won't have them. 

I could never imagine my life without my kids, but I can absolutely see how all people would not feel that way. It really does completely change your life in a huge way. If you are not ready for that they having kids is not for you.


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## TATTRAT (Jul 3, 2008)

no kids, not yet.

Being a parent is a job no "ONE" is truly qualified for, but people still do it. I just want to get to a point where I know I won't mind settling down for at least 18years.


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## miniman (Jul 3, 2008)

TATTRAT said:


> no kids, not yet.
> 
> Being a parent is a job no "ONE" is truly qualified for, but people still do it. I just want to get to a point where I know I won't mind settling down for at least 18years.


 
Parenthood is the original "learn on the job" training and each child is different so the first lot of training needs to be updated - I don't think I've got it yet.


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## TanyaK (Jul 3, 2008)

Neither of us have the slightest urge to have children - never have - and we're in our mid thirties. I'm just not a "child person". My friends all have kids and I never have the urge to play or interact with them(does that sound horrible?) I'd rather cuddle a puppy than a baby  Neither my mom or sister ever had an urge to have kids but had them because my dad and BIL wanted them (but they love their kids now that they're there) - so maybe it's genetic  In my point of view you should only have kids if you really really want them and not because of any other reason - people often ask me "but you're going to be lonely when you're old" - not a reason to have kids in my opinion. It's actually pretty amazing how personal people can get


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## lulu (Jul 3, 2008)

I'd love kids now. I really, really feel ready (some might remember me starting to pine a couple of years ago) but I don't want to wait any longer. DH doesn't want to adopt (his right to choose) and I'm unlikely to be accepted onto the waiting list for adoptive parents in UK with my health issues  

We can't, without real comprimise use a surrogate - too expensive while we save f
or a house and I feel that if nature says no I'm not going to go down the avenue of emotional and turbulant medical intervention. 

We haven't been trying to avoid kids for some time now but nothing. I just don't think its going to happen now for us. I'm sad but not desperate. Mainly, I think DH would be th best father ever (but he wants a daughter while I yearn for two sons) . But I'll get more pets and hopefully be godmother to dozen's one day.  meanwhile, DH and I have fun not giving up, lol.


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 3, 2008)

Nope, no way  was I going to have kids. I got what I like to call THE CURE at an early age. Being the only girl and the oldest I had to help with 3 younger brothers I knew by the time I was 12 that I would not want kids. I knew exactly how much work it can be. Every night when I was 12 it was my job to pat my middle brothers less than 1 year old butt while he lay on his stomach to get him to go to sleep at night. If I stopped he would start crying. It always seemed like an eternity to get him to sleep At the tender age of 12 while patting his butt my mantra was " I'm never having kids, I'm  never having kids, I'm never having kids"
I also never had that primal urge to have kids either. I have no regrets what so ever. Don't get me wrong I like kids but I like when they go home to. Odd thing is kids are attracted to me and babies like me I can get a baby to smile when others can't.
Speaking of kids DHs granddaughter is coming to visit us July 6th and will stay about a week. She comes alone and I get to entertain her. It's exhausting she is 10 now so I bought crafts and stuff to keep her occupied. Last time she was here she put melted candle wax all over her face when I wasn't looking. This year I hear she has taken to stuffing her bra with tissue. What? Huh? Since when do 10 year olds wear bras? Why do they want to grow up so fast? Jeez.


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## Angie (Jul 3, 2008)

Been trying for 3 yrs and nothing yet!


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## DramaQueen (Jul 3, 2008)

*I had two children. Not so much by choice but by chance. I wanted them anyway just not so soon. I delivered my first baby 9 1/2 months after I got married. I never had a chance to know what it was like not to have a child. My second came along 2 years later. 45 yrs. ago today as a matter of fact. *
*My daughter has two children but my son and his wife - married 18 years decided not to have kids a long time ago. The reason? They love the life they lead. They have a fabulous home, a tropical pool, new cars etc. and lead a life of pure enjoyment with very few problems. They don't want to change the way they live nor give up their total independance. When they feel like going, whether it's a trip across town or to Hawaii, they go. I can understand that. My DIL is NOT the maternal type and would not be a good mother. She knows it and I know it. I am fine with their decision. Parenthood is not required of everyone. When you have children, your life is not your own. You are always thinking of someone else first. You can't lay down and take a 2 hour nap if you wanted to. She wants to and she does.*
*Having children is not a necessary part of life. It is a decision that should be made carefully or you could be in for a lot of suprises. We loved having our kids and they did enrich our lives , but I think our lives would have been wonderful even if we hadn't had kids. Not everyone's life is enhanced by parenthood. I have two friends who wish they never had kids. The kids have been a nightmare for them. I feel bad about that. *
*As for being lonely in your old age, that's not necessary true.  Many people have lost their children to death so they're still alone in their old age.   Many others have kids they never see  and some have children who live on the other side of the country.  Having kids does not  guarantee  anything.*


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## quicksilver (Jul 3, 2008)

Very, very touchy subject, as b.t. has said.
And very personal.
After I got married the first time, a year or so after my mother called me "selfish" for not having kids right away.
Well I did get pregnant after 2+ yrs, and lost him 5 mos. later.
 Drs. warned, with my kidneys it would always be
touch and go, possibly to the choice of my life or the baby's.
The marriage went downhill from there.
Oh well, what' cha gonna do?

I remarried about 7 years later. I wanted kids again
and swore to myself I'd do whatever it took to keep safe,
but the relationship was onesided, and knew I would be the only one to parent, as it proved I married another woman's child who never grew up.
Not wanting my child to have a one parent home, or want that for myself, I never did have children.
And am happily divorced since 1989.
Knowing the emotional pain I went through, mom still never retracted those word. I guess I was her dissappointment, as was my older brother.
My younger brother had a daughter, but then he passed 
away from cancer at the young age of 38.
So my niece has been the joy of us all. Our future.

But I swear, in my next life, I'm gonna be the Jon &
Kate I always dreamed of.

I pray no one who wants children ever suffers not having them, for whatever reason.
​


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## suziquzie (Jul 3, 2008)

Quicksilver, what a horrible thing for your Mom to say!
I don't think it's selfish one bit to know you don't want kids. Why have them on a fleeting whim or out of duress, and regret it? It can't turn out good for that kid. 
Just want to say I don't begrudge anyone for making the choice not to.... I applaud it. 
That said, anyone want to babysit?


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 3, 2008)

Wow, this is probably the most personal subject in the world but since this is turning out to be a very civilized and informative discussion, I'll add my 2 cents.

My feeling is that having children, like getting married, can be the most wonderful and fulfilling thing in the world. It has been for me. But I always knew I wanted children. From an early age, I enjoyed children and was always babysitting for somebody. I'm very much a people person and I find young people fascinating and enjoy being around them. I think it's in my personality and nature.

That said, I don't think everyone is well suited to parenting. I do not think it is a character flaw, or a sign of selfishness, or something lacking in that person. Parenting is in actuality a career. And not all careers or vocations are right for all people. I may admire and depend upon financial consultants and doctors and lawyers and religious leaders, but I know I would not be well suited to those careers. I would not be good at those jobs and they aren't jobs that appeal to me. I think it's the same for people who choose not to have children - they just don't feel they would be good at it and/or happy doing it. I am glad people have the choice now. No offense to people of different religious convictions but I think birth control has enhanced the quality of life for all humans in that we now are able to choose to be parents or not.

The thing that puzzles me is people who say they don't like children. I think usually people are just making a generalization when they say that. But it seems to me that people who _really_ don't like children either a) don't know too many very well or b) have some unresolved issues from childhood. Doesn't it seem that not liking children must be a form of self-loathing? Weren't we all children? Aren't children people, too? (The same thing with elders, for that matter.)

For those of you who wanted to have a child and were unable to, my heart goes out to you. I have always thought that must be one of the most painful things in life. Quicksilver, I will be sending up prayers that next time around, you'll have a house full of children with a soul mate to share it with!


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 3, 2008)

I also wanted to have my tubes tied at age 21 but the nurse kept saying " Oh no Honey you don't want to do that, some day you will meet a man and fall in love and your going to really want to have his baby" Huh? I knew what I wanted and that did not include kids. I also knew I did not have the patience to raise a kid. The dogs are a pain in the neck as it is and all I have to do for them is keep their food  and water bowls full and give them their treat a precisely 4:00 PM take them for rides, clip one of them, give them baths, make sure they get their shots, make sure they don't hurt themselves, make sure they behave, make sure the cat and dog beds are clean, make sure to clean up dog poo in the yard, clean the floor when they rip into the house with muddy feet, vacumn up all the pet hair, clean up cat puke etc, etc, etc. HEY WAIT A JUST A DARN MINUTE! I thought I decided to NOT have kids.


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 3, 2008)

jpmcgrew said:


> I also wanted to have my tubes tied at age 21 but the nurse kept saying " Oh no Honey you don't want to do that, some day you will meet a man and fall in love and your going to really want to have his baby" Huh? I knew what I wanted and that did not include kids. I also knew I did not have the patience to raise a kid. The dogs are a pain in the neck as it is and all I have to do for them is keep their food  and water bowls full and give them their treat a precisely 4:00 PM take them for rides, clip one of them, give them baths, make sure they get their shots, make sure they don't hurt themselves, make sure they behave, make sure the cat and dog beds are clean, make sure to clean up dog poo in the yard, clean the floor when they rip into the house with muddy feet, vacumn up all the pet hair, clean up cat puke etc, etc, etc. HEY WAIT A JUST A DARN MINUTE! I thought I decided to NOT have kids.


 I was thinking the same thing as I was reading this!!!! One thing in dogs' favor - they will never wreck your car.


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 3, 2008)

Fisher's Mom said:


> I was thinking the same thing as I was reading this!!!! One thing in dogs' favor - they will never wreck your car.


  This is true and no college tuition to worry about. But they still are a bunch of free loaders. They claim they can't work because they don't have pockets to carry money in.


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## lulu (Jul 3, 2008)

Fisher's Mom said:


> I was thinking the same thing as I was reading this!!!! One thing in dogs' favor - they will never wreck your car.


 
My sister's jack russel ate th back seat upholstery and THE ENTIRE dash board of her car.  and then did the same to hr next car


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## luvs (Jul 3, 2008)

i'm undecided. i have school & $$ issues that preceed kiddos. i want them dearly, i just need to be at that right spot. i'm considering motherhood, 'cept not till i'm like 35 & pulled together & healthy again.


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## GrillingFool (Jul 3, 2008)

I was never interested much in kids. Spent 8 years with a woman who had
2, and NEVER SHOULD HAVE. She was not a Mom, never developed that 
unconditional Motherly love thing.
After we failed, I thought long and hard about it, and decided that I wasn't a Dad,
either. 
No urge to pass on the genes.
Absolutely positively CAN NOT stand howling kids, kids who don't behave. I know,
without a doubt, that having a teenager would be the death of me... or him/her, LOL!
Luckily, I found me a wonderful wife who feels the same way. Got myself permanently
removed from the gene pool potential about 9 years ago.
Pity... both of us are quite smart with great work ethics and morals, LOLOLOLOL!
(That last line is humor, ark ark ark. True, but humor!!!!)

edit to add: Include me in the "Pets are my kids" crew... see my photo album, LOL!
I have 2 daughters!


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 3, 2008)

OMG, thanks for the huge laugh JP and Lulu!!! Dogs as freeloaders! I love it. And Lulu, if you could see the inside of my minivan - your sister's dog's got nothing on my crew. But I don't _think_ they actually ate the upholstery.


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## Saphellae (Jul 3, 2008)

If you didn't find the pieces, chances are it was in their poop. :p


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## Barbara L (Jul 3, 2008)

I believe children are a wonderful blessing, and I am glad I had my daughter (wanted more but was divorced young).  However, I hate it when people try to pressure people who don't want kids.  That is too personal a decision for us to push them for change.  There is always a chance that they will change their minds later, and if they don't, it is none of our business.  Sometimes people give into the pressure to have children when they really don't want them.  Then everyone is surprised when they turn out to be terrible parents, or indifferent parents (this is not to say that everyone who chooses not to have kids would be a bad parent).  Those who know me know that I love to use analogies.  One I see here is cooking.  If someone expresses absolutely no interest in cooking, in fact loathes the idea of it, and you pressure them to cook--would you be surprised when they burn the meat, undercook the rice, and burn their fallen cake?  No.  Well, we also shouldn't be surprised when people pressured to become parents aren't nominated for parent of the year.  

We each have our reasons for wanting to have children and for not wanting to have children.  Some don't want to bear the children themselves but choose to adopt.  Some are happy to see their nieces and nephews now and then.  Whatever our choice, it is personal and it is fine.  

Barbara


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## Saphellae (Jul 3, 2008)

Nick and I won't be having children for another few years, and I told him I want us to get married first and he agreed.  We both want to be financially ready, and ready TOGETHER before we bring a child into our world.  Nick will be an amazing dad  He has a childish side and whenever he goes to his tutoring sessions he comes back as silly as ever!  I'm also pretty silly too but more reserved, but I'm sure when I have a child I won't give a hoot what anyone thinks as long as he/she is happy!


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## B'sgirl (Jul 3, 2008)

DramaQueen said:


> *** **Having children is not a necessary part of life. It is a decision that should be made carefully or you could be in for a lot of suprises. *



I have to say that having children _is_ a necessary part of life. At least, _somebody_ has to have children or else we wouldn't exist. That being said, she's right that the decision should be made carefully. A person should be ready and willing to care for the children. I also feel sad for your friend, DramaQueen, who has children and does not want them. I particularly feel bad for the children. I truly believe that having children is important but loving them is more important. If a person cannot give their children a loving home than I suppose it is better not to have them. Too many problems in society stem from unloved children.


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## expatgirl (Jul 3, 2008)

I always liked Ann Lander's advice to couples who were always being pestered by "Why aren't you having kids yet and she'd advise them to respond "Why in the world would you want to know that?"  In other words every couple has their own unique interdynamics and agenda and if it includes kids fine and if it doesn't fine.......noone should be judged by whether or not they want or do not want children.  I had two and and they are wonderful adults......growing up with them was not the most of fun and thrills at times but they did bring a lot of fun and joy at the same time.....the teens were the pits.   Would I want children now?  No way----kid screamed and cried on and off the whole way from Frankfurt to KZ------mother was an idiot-------kept telling her that she was muy malo----very bad---yep just what a 3 year old wants to be told.........I wanted to smack the mother........but the child kept hitting a nerve in the back of my neck, too.......would have put up with it 20 years ago but not today...so everybody is different..........only point I will make here, ladies, if you really want to have a child but are putting it off until your mid30's and beyond, do realize that the biological clock ticks geometrically and not yearly.....you will reach a point in your genetic makeup where becoming pregnant may not work out for you........so keep in close contact with your gyns and have hormonal tests done to be sure that you're still fit and sound to keep putting it off........I actually had a friend who was in full menopause at aged 38 and had had 3 miscarriages.  Her mother had her last one at age 39.  So just beware of the consequences of waiting too late.  And believe me you don't want a teen in during menopause (quote by my very wise Mother-in-law)


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 3, 2008)

Fisher's Mom said:


> OMG, thanks for the huge laugh JP and Lulu!!! Dogs as freeloaders! I love it. And Lulu, if you could see the inside of my minivan - your sister's dog's got nothing on my crew. But I don't _think_ they actually ate the upholstery.


  I always say my truck is nothing more than a dog house on wheels.


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## attie (Jul 3, 2008)

Our young generation are so heavily in debt that they have very little choice with regards to having children as both partners need to work to meet their commitments. Our home prices have doubled in less than tens years with rents following suit and with mortgage rates at 9% now there is little hope of many being able to afford children.
From this we have found that many of our young people have changed their priorities to spending their money on themselves by having the best of the best when buying a home. So much so that they *need* to have large homes with all the mod cons to out do the Jones' as if it were a competition.
When I was a contract builder the average family home was 10 squares, now they average at 22 squares. To top it off our cost of living has risen 40% over the past three years which puts further strain on their funds.
I feel sorry for those who genuinely want children but cannot afford them and also for those who have made the choice not to, simply because my children are my life.
Without doubt, had we not had children we would much better off financially now and possibly just as happy but we wouldn't be a family.
What I have also noticed is that very few marry now, they just become partners. I must be old fashioned because I feel that that piece of paper is a very important document to have.


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## Barbara L (Jul 3, 2008)

attie said:


> What I have also noticed is that very few marry now, they just become partners. I must be old fashioned because I feel that that piece of paper is a very important document to have.


I don't think you are old fashioned, and I agree.

Barbara


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## stassie (Jul 3, 2008)

Barbara L said:


> I don't think you are old fashioned, and I agree.
> 
> Barbara


 

Hey, I'm only 24, and I agree too


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 3, 2008)

I wouldn't trade my kids for anything in the world, but I don't think I have ever stopped to ask someone else why they didn't have kids. I figure if they don't want em they don't want em, or if they can't have them I would be bringing up a touchy subject.
Whatever their reason, I never felt the need to push my beliefs on them.

And I agree on the piece of paper.


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 3, 2008)

I used to think the piece of paper was really important but now I've mellowed. I just think it's important when you decide to have children together.


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## Russellkhan (Jul 3, 2008)

OK, this could make me seem like some sort of paranoid shut in or just a grouchy old man with a horrible pessimistic outlook, but it's my honest answer to the question. 

Let me start by saying that I love kids. I have two god-children now and have been named honorary uncle by many friends who have kids. I'm told I'm great with them. I know I get along really well with them. 

That said, I just don't really feel like it's a very good world that today's kids get to inherit. There are many factors including pollution, exhaustion of resources (fuel, food, wood, clean air, drinking water, even the metals we build with are showing signs of running out), the erosion of our civil liberties and more. I think all of these trends will continue on a world wide basis until it is far too late to do anything about it. 

OK, now I've written a complete downer of a post for a nice cheery thread. My apologies, and I hope you don't all think of me as a nutcase from here on in.

Russ


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## Barbara L (Jul 3, 2008)

Russellkhan said:


> ...I hope you don't all think of me as a nutcase from here on in.
> 
> Russ


A nutcase?  No.  Someone expressing his opinion?  Yep!

Barbara


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 3, 2008)

Thats nothing Russell, I once heard a lady (standing out front of her little mansion in Evanston near the shore) say, "The problem with the world today is only stupid and inferior people are breading...".


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 3, 2008)

Russellkhan said:


> OK, this could make me seem like some sort of paranoid shut in or just a grouchy old man with a horrible pessimistic outlook, but it's my honest answer to the question.
> 
> Let me start by saying that I love kids. I have two god-children now and have been named honorary uncle by many friends who have kids. I'm told I'm great with them. I know I get along really well with them.
> 
> ...


I don't think you're a nutcase at all, Russ. You sound like someone who has given serious thought to this issue and Bravo to you for that!!! That's all stuff our kids will be dealing with and it's real. People don't have to become parents to still have a positive impact on the next generation and it sounds like you're doing that, too! (Are you single?)


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## B'sgirl (Jul 3, 2008)

Russellkhan said:


> OK, this could make me seem like some sort of paranoid shut in or just a grouchy old man with a horrible pessimistic outlook, but it's my honest answer to the question.
> 
> Let me start by saying that I love kids. I have two god-children now and have been named honorary uncle by many friends who have kids. I'm told I'm great with them. I know I get along really well with them.
> 
> ...



Aw, come on. There's a lot of good right alongside the bad. Think of all the cool technologies we have. We have way more free time than lots of our ancestors. We have amazing medical technology. I could go on for hours naming the good. We just have to teach our kids to face the bad, stand up to it, or ,make it better  and enjoy what's good.


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## Saphellae (Jul 3, 2008)

Youth debt isn't getting any better with education costs on the rise for college and university.  If the governments wants to fill jobs, they need to regulate those costs. But, don't want to get political lol.. this is just about peoples choices on having kids. 

For me, it's not a competition to have the biggest house or have the biggest family - if I wanted that I would have them by now, since alot of my friends are now married with children.  Unless it is a blessed accident, I think most people attempt to wait until they are ready financially and with their partner.  There will always be people who don't know how to take care of their kids and never wanted them to begin with (it's called birth control people, use it!).


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## MexicoKaren (Jul 3, 2008)

Russ, I think if I were doing it all over again (my kids were born in the late 60s, early 70s), I might hesitate for the very reasons you cited. It is an uncertain world we are living in. My daughter and her husband (39 and 41) have chosen not to have children, and my son and his wife (37 and 36) have two daughters but a very unconventional lifestyle. During their primary years, the children were home-schooled. For the past three years, they have attended an international school in China, where my son and his wife both teach. They have had very little exposure to American pop culture and as a consequence, at ages 9 and 11, they are still CHILDREN. They just visited us a few weeks ago and they are smart, healthy, funny, happy children. They don't listen to iPods or wear clothing that is too mature for them or clamor for material things. It is an unusual way to raise children, but it seems to be working for them. And they both speak and write fluent Chinese, so that may serve them well in the future.


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## Saphellae (Jul 3, 2008)

That is always nice to see, Karen.. children acting like children, not trying to grow up too fast.


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## attie (Jul 3, 2008)

Nice post Karen, being close to Asia and being such a cheap area to visit we have a lot of contact with China and I have a lot of respect for their peoples ways.

What I failed to mention before was that both our sons [35 & 28] have decided to remain bachelors and are the best of mates, they live for fishing. They have also decided to move back in with Mum and Dad, that's cool, we enjoy their company. They also pay all the running costs, that's even more cool.


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## pacanis (Jul 3, 2008)

*How many kids are parked in your house?*

OK. Anyone going to start the thread? 

No kids. Divorced too soon, which was good at the time, but now that I'm older I reflect a bit on what it would be like to have a kid or two around....
No biggie to me. I like them, just don't have any  It's my life and I don't dwell on the what could have beens very much.


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## Adillo303 (Jul 3, 2008)

I started to post before, but lost my nerve. Hope I cna get through it this time. Having kisd was not a decision I was involved in. My GF at the time did that. yes I provided my part, hapily, but, I did notlearn for several years that there was a plan involved.

With thst said, I thank her and god for the wonderful human being that is my daughter. Of all the things that I have accomplished in my life she is paramount. Recently she told one of her frineds "I talk to my dad every day and it is the high point of my day." Instant cloud nine. 

In reading all of the posts here I see a lot of things that make sense. Having kids todayis a much bigger decision that it was in the mid 60's. Financially and emotionally. It is something that couples are thinking over together which is great. Whatever the outcome of their dedision, it is their decision and no one should question or attempt to sway it. I do worry for the children of today's younger grenration. Mexico Karen, your grandchildren are to be envied, as thye have a life that is now difficult to get. 

AC


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## texasgirl (Jul 3, 2008)

TanyaK said:


> Neither of us have the slightest urge to have children - never have - and we're in our mid thirties. I'm just not a "child person". My friends all have kids and I never have the urge to play or interact with them(does that sound horrible?) I'd rather cuddle a puppy than a baby  Neither my mom or sister ever had an urge to have kids but had them because my dad and BIL wanted them (but they love their kids now that they're there) - so maybe it's genetic  In my point of view you should only have kids if you really really want them and not because of any other reason - people often ask me "but you're going to be lonely when you're old" - not a reason to have kids in my opinion. It's actually pretty amazing how personal people can get


 
doesn't sound horrible at all! Sometimes, though I love my boys with all my heart  and would give my life for them, I like my dogs so much more and I am NOT joking! Animals want nothing from you but to be fed and loved and let them run around and play and to be taken care of when they need. They give you constant unconditional love all the time!! 


{In my own little perfect world, I like to think that some people are unable to have children so that there is someone that will take the ones that are thrown away. Not the ones that are given up for adoption, but, literally, thrown away, abused in any. That way all the love that has built up is showered over a child that has had nothing but pain and can have a life of love and family.}


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 3, 2008)

I feel bad when kids have kids they have no idea what they are getting into. Anyone considering having kids must think about it long and hard. It is a different world now. I havn't seen Baby Borrowers but maybe it should be mandatory for young people to watch it. Not only is it a lot of work but also very expensive. The way the economy is now many adult children are moving back home with their parents.


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## elaine l (Jul 3, 2008)

Russellkhan said:


> OK, this could make me seem like some sort of paranoid shut in or just a grouchy old man with a horrible pessimistic outlook, but it's my honest answer to the question.
> 
> Let me start by saying that I love kids. I have two god-children now and have been named honorary uncle by many friends who have kids. I'm told I'm great with them. I know I get along really well with them.
> 
> ...



I have several friends that made the decision to not have children. That is a good decision for them based on what they want out of life.  But I disagree that a valid reason would be that the world we live in gives them nothing to inherit.  What world was there a hundred or a thousand years ago?  What would those parents have said?  Did they know that we would develop antibiotics?  Make huge advances in medicine, economics, education, technology?  Their chances of living an easy life were certainly a lot less than those born today.  They had hardships we can only imagine.  I did have children, three of them and all grown up.  Was it a good decision?  To me yes, the time of my life.  Is it right for everyone?  No I think not.  Did I make a point?  Probably not!


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## MexicoKaren (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks for your positive comments, Adillo, Attie and Saphaelle. It was so much fun to watch the two lovely little red-headed girls playing on the beach, making sandcastles together when they were here visiting. My son and his family love China; they just signed up for two more years there. There are challenges to be sure, but the people are warm and friendly and eager to learn. And there is beauty to be seen there everywhere you look. As you can imagine, having children for me was one of the best things I've ever done with my life. Both of my children are good, compassionate people who will have a positive effect on countless people as they go through life. I'm very proud of them. (And they both called me today and said "I love you, Mom)


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## knight76 (Jul 3, 2008)

Without reading this whoe thread (I am working).

I wanted to say I do not see anything wrong with people who do not wish to have kids. It is their lives and their choice and I do not think it is selfish in the slightest. 

I have two kids myself with one on the way and love being a father. I love my kids to bits and would not go back to being childless for any money in the world. There is just something heart warming getting up in the cold winter mornings, your two year old hears you pottering around before work and gets out of bed to come give you a cuddle. 

But, there are times when I lament the loss of freedom. Once you have kids, your life becomes your kids. You lose a lot of freedom to just go do something, as your kids have a nap/feed schedule etc. You will quickly find your conversation topics generally revolve around your kids also.

Some people just do not wish to give up their freedom which is totally fine. Some people just don't like kids which is also totally fine. Some people want 10 kids which is also totally fine as it makes up for those who do not want kids.

Anyway, my 2 cents worth. Who am I to judge someone elses decision?


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 3, 2008)

MexicoKaren said:


> Thanks for your positive comments, Adillo, Attie and Saphaelle. It was so much fun to watch the two lovely little red-headed girls playing on the beach, making sandcastles together when they were here visiting. My son and his family love China; they just signed up for two more years there. There are challenges to be sure, but the people are warm and friendly and eager to learn. And there is beauty to be seen there everywhere you look. As you can imagine, having children for me was one of the best things I've ever done with my life. Both of my children are good, compassionate people who will have a positive effect on countless people as they go through life. I'm very proud of them. (And they both called me today and said "I love you, Mom)


  I wish kids in this country would stay kids instead of trying to be grown up especially the girls I sure it's because of all the crap they watch on TV. As I said before DHs granddaughter is coming to visit and she is only 10 and she wears a bra and stuffs it with tissue. Can't wait to see what else when she gets here.


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 3, 2008)

My daughter is also 10, and is in a training bra... or so I am told cause she is still my little girl and I am in complete denial... but she isn't going around stuffing it, and she is not wearing it for kicks it is something she needs.
I have heard they believe there is a link to BHG in milk and girls developing early, they also have found data suggesting overweight girls will develop more quickly than girls that are at or below their recommended weight.


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## Chicks (Jul 3, 2008)

Never had kids never wanted them.  I have friends who had them and wish they didn't, friends who never had any and are happy and friends who have kids and love them to pieces.  It is all a matter of choice and fate.  We made the choice long ago and have never questioned it, we knew that we would not be good parent material.  I will be a good kitty parent, they never ask for the car.
Cin


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## MexicoKaren (Jul 3, 2008)

Maverick said:
			
		

> I have heard they believe there is a link to BHG in milk and girls developing early,


 
You know, Mav, I wondered about that when they were here. GD is 11, tall and slim like her dad, and still looks just like a little girl (no development yet). I wonder if their being out of the country (not drinking US milk) for several years has anything to do with that?


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 3, 2008)

Yea, only its BGH not BHG, I got the letters mixed up LOL. I have met several parents who avoided any milk or dairy with any link to BGH or other hormones, etc that they enhance this stuff with and non of them have kids developing early.
Hard to say as the study is in its infancy still I think, but food for though so to speak...


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 3, 2008)

MexicoKaren said:


> You know, Mav, I wondered about that when they were here. GD is 11, tall and slim like her dad, and still looks just like a little girl (no development yet). I wonder if their being out of the country (not drinking US milk) for several years has anything to do with that?


  Oh, yes they are better off. In the states most of the milk and meat is from cows that have been injected with growth hormones ,steroids and antibiotics. Breast cancer has also been linked with growth hormones.


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 3, 2008)

Mav, I assume you mean BGH as Bovine Growth Hormones. They want to grow animals as fast as they can as to make money as fast as they can. In the mean time it's hurting the children and us in a serious molecular way.


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 3, 2008)

Yea that's the stuff JPM, at first I switched the letters and thought that might confuse some so I wanted to correct myself, LOL.


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 3, 2008)

Maverick2272 said:


> Yea that's the stuff JPM, at first I switched the letters and thought that might confuse some so I wanted to correct myself, LOL.


  Either way it's really bad stuff


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## suziquzie (Jul 4, 2008)

Holy cow look at all thses posts!


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## ribs and steak (Jul 4, 2008)

I'm 40 something and dont regret not having the pitter patter of little feet in the house, with the exception of cats. Even after I was out of high school i dated once but it turned out not to be what I expected. 

On the other hand pets seem to fill the void anyway. I have nothing against raising little ones i just feel i dont have the patience nor the funds to do it.


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## Russellkhan (Jul 4, 2008)

B'sgirl said:


> Aw, come on. There's a lot of good right alongside the bad. Think of all the cool technologies we have. We have way more free time than lots of our ancestors. We have amazing medical technology. I could go on for hours naming the good. We just have to teach our kids to face the bad, stand up to it, or ,make it better and enjoy what's good.


Don't get me wrong, I don't think we have a horrible world here right now, and I do enjoy the wonderful technology that lets us chat here and has extended our life expectancies. 

But I'm just not sure enough of a good world to grow up in and to be adults in afterwards for my kids (if I had them). 


elaine l said:


> (...)I disagree that a valid reason would be that the world we live in gives them nothing to inherit. What world was there a hundred or a thousand years ago? What would those parents have said? Did they know that we would develop antibiotics? Make huge advances in medicine, economics, education, technology? Their chances of living an easy life were certainly a lot less than those born today. They had hardships we can only imagine. I did have children, three of them and all grown up. Was it a good decision? To me yes, the time of my life. Is it right for everyone? No I think not. Did I make a point? Probably not!


I don't know what my decision would have been in the world of a hundred or a thousand years ago, as I didn't grow up in that and don't know if I would have had a similar outlook then. As far as I'm concerned, it's good that you disagree. I hope you're right. I hope that I turn out to be wrong about this. But since I don't personally foresee a good future for them, I'm not going to be bringing kids into the world.

My thanks to all for your acceptance of my views, especially Barbara L, Maverick2272, Fisher's Mom, MexicoKaren and whoever else chimed in to support my saying what I did (I don't think I missed anyone, but if I did), as I was a bit nervous posting it.

Russ


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## suziquzie (Jul 4, 2008)

Just want to say I hope I haven't offended anyone starting this thread. 
I don't fault anyone for any decision in thier own lives. Kids are NOT for everyone! 
Russell you have a valid point and I contemplate that every day. I think glass half empty most of the time.... gotta turn that around!


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## Russellkhan (Jul 4, 2008)

Suzi, I can only speak for myself, but I don't see any way that you might have offended anyone by starting this thread. It has been a good and worthwhile conversation. 

And I agree that the decision to have kids is very personal. I don't generally inflict my gloomy views on potential parents. They've got enough to consider without my input!


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## GotGarlic (Jul 4, 2008)

Maverick2272 said:


> My daughter is also 10, and is in a training bra... or so I am told cause she is still my little girl and I am in complete denial... but she isn't going around stuffing it, and she is not wearing it for kicks it is something she needs.
> I have heard they believe there is a link to BHG in milk and girls developing early, they also have found data suggesting overweight girls will develop more quickly than girls that are at or below their recommended weight.



It's not true: FAQ



> Question
> 
> Is bovine growth hormone (bGH) a health concern in meat or dairy foods?
> 
> ...


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## lulu (Jul 4, 2008)

I'm most certainly not offended, and if I were I wouldn't have answered!  Joy of forae...you can post or not!


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## suziquzie (Jul 4, 2008)

Thanks lulu and Russell I feel better now....
Still waiting for a sitter.....


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## DramaQueen (Jul 4, 2008)

Chicks said:


> Never had kids never wanted them. I have friends who had them and wish they didn't, friends who never had any and are happy and friends who have kids and love them to pieces. It is all a matter of choice and fate. We made the choice long ago and have never questioned it, we knew that we would not be good parent material. I will be a good kitty parent, they never ask for the car.
> Cin


 

*And you don't have to send them to college. *


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## Russellkhan (Jul 4, 2008)

GotGarlic said:


> It's not true: FAQ



Not conclusive. A quick Googling shows Monsanto money funding Cornell studies.


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## JGDean (Jul 4, 2008)

I believe you should have the desire to have children not have them just because it is expected. My DHs family has genetics he wouldn't want to chance passing on. I never had the desire. I love my neice and nephew and I got my "child fix" with them. My sis and her husband never wanted them. I'm not sure why - never asked. A woman I work with is lesbian and has a very narrow birth canal. She wanted to be a mother badly. A friend helped her become pregnant and after 2 dangerous pregnancies and C-sections she has a son and daughter. She is an excellent mother and very happy. All of us are different and no one should judge another.


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## urmaniac13 (Jul 4, 2008)

There are a few reasons that I never became a mother, and never will be.

- I am too self-centred.  I do enjoy hanging out with children (not any and all of them, just the nice ones) on my own terms, but there is no way I can deal with the 24/7/365 commitment and having my own little world turned upside down by a child.

- Generally I do very well with children over 6 or 7 years of age.  (again, on my own terms)  However I have no idea whatsoever how to interact with babies and toddlers, I even feel rather terrified about that idea.

- I didn't have a good relation with my own mother.  As dedicated and well-intended as she was, it went all wrong, she presented herself as an oppressive, intimidating dictator while I was growing up.  The impression remains firm and because of this "motherhood" doesn't inspire anything positive or attractive to me.

Many people say I think this way because I haven't experienced it, and it will all change if the baby actually arrives.  But I do feel in my gut this is not to be, I just don't have a maternal instinct.  Too many people decide to have a baby anyway while they are so totally unprepared or unfit to do so, and things go all downhill with the baby.  I think it is a lot more unfortunate and even tragic than a life without your own offspring.


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## Constance (Jul 4, 2008)

Children can fill your heart with incredible joy...and they can rip it to shreds. I love mine more than life itself, but I wouldn't blame anyone for making the decision not to have them, especially in this day and age.


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## Zooy (Jul 4, 2008)

Someday I would love children, but right now I'm 21, just started my career and am engaged. We still have our "omg could I be pregnant" as I'm allergic to latex but am on birth control. I also have PCOS so when we decide to I may have a very difficult time conceiving. 
Children are not for everyone, my sister in law does not want children. She works with enough kids at her job and spoils everyone of them whereas my other sister in law wants to be a baby maker which is fine if thats her thing. I think the decision should be up to the individual.


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## redkitty (Jul 4, 2008)

No kids here and don't want them.  I like kids I just don't feel the need to have my own.  Although I won't go into detail here as to why, its not always the best discussion since everyone has such different opinions.


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## attie (Jul 4, 2008)

suziquzie said:


> Holy cow look at all thses posts!


And some very honest posts by the Ladies, thank you Girls


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## suziquzie (Jul 4, 2008)

I hate to possibly offend again, but I gotta know.....
Do those of you without children fault or think less of those of us who do have them??? 
This was the beginning of the reason for asking, but did not want to start off with it.


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## Chicks (Jul 4, 2008)

suziquzie said:


> I hate to possibly offend again, but I gotta know.....
> Do those of you without children fault or think less of those of us who do have them???
> This was the beginning of the reason for asking, but did not want to start off with it.



Oh MY Goodness NO.  You have been given a special gift both in having your children and being able to be a wonderful and loving parent.  You knew it was right for you and we knew it was not right for us.  That is why we have chocolate and vanilla.  It takes a special person to be a good understanding parent, I applaud you all.
Cin


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## expatgirl (Jul 4, 2008)

suziquzie said:


> I hate to possibly offend again, but I gotta know.....
> Do those of you without children fault or think less of those of us who do have them???
> This was the beginning of the reason for asking, but did not want to start off with it.



no, the only time I regret being around parents with kids is when they are being abusive around them..........I can't and won't read child abuse cases... CAN'T...had one here in TX a few months ago that still makes me cry.........stupid,  stepfather stayed at home to "train" the 3 year old..........beat her to a pulp,,,,,,,,,I still cry today at this toddler's ordeal and resulting death===that's when I draw the line at people having children that they don't want.....if you have them and can't handle the responsibilities then there are resources out there to help you in placing them within a loving home.............


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## expatgirl (Jul 4, 2008)

Sorry, SQ, went off a bit on a little tangent...........case just came up again in the Houston papers so the pain is fresh again......most people I think believe like most of us that what your decisions are in bringing children into the world are yours and yours alone.........who cares who or whom look down on you......it's your life and what you make of it......be d........d to what they think....... you and your hubby are the ones raising them........and your daughter by her last pic doesn't looks like she's got the world by the tail.......so keep on loving and hugging her and be glad that she's there


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## suziquzie (Jul 4, 2008)

expat you make me glad to be me....
my mom just left after an " I had to" visit....
this is why I ask. 
I try VERY hard not to be emotional, but it doesn't work. 
Anyone wanna adopt me? MIL is here and volunteered, but then that would just make things wierd...... 
 
Thank you everyone for being you!
Happy 4th!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## expatgirl (Jul 4, 2008)

I'll adopt you anyday SQ if you're not a debate champ ..........I can't win an argument with my daughter these days for anything no matter what---it's  awful.......hahaha...........no just hang in there........life will get easier as a parent I promise...   when  lego girl hits 12-15 then you're going to hit another hurdle in your lives------just have your seatbelts ready is all I'm saying............by then you will be older, wiser and have been around the block a few times and will be able to handle the next hurdle and maybe she'll surprise you..........this is God's laugh for the day...........Adam and Eve were probably teens.......no kidding.......and God had problems with them listening......why should we be different..........he practiced tough love and kicked them out, too....thousands of years of more problems.......so hang in there.........and yes, I'll adopt you anyday


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## B'sgirl (Jul 4, 2008)

Ah, now I see your reason for asking, Suzi. I'm curious about that too. What I hate is getting looked down on for being a stay-at-home mom. Having "no profession", although I have a bachelor's degree and spent two years teaching before having children. I miss teaching sometimes, but I wouldn't give up staying home with my children for anything. A lot of people complained about raising kids in a world like this one. That is precisely why I will not work again until my children are raised--I don't want anyone else raising them.


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 4, 2008)

I commend people that want kids but as I posted before it was not for me. I'm 50 now but remember people all women of course thinking and saying I must be off or strange or I must not like men  as a young girl I always said I would not have kids. Now in this time it's much more acceptable. I have also had older women say to me " Don't get me wrong I love my kids and would not replace them for anything in the world. But?" We have to remember in years gone by there really was no birth control and a womens worth was based on having children. So I say Bravo to the women that want and crave children and to the ones that do not want or crave children. Doesn't mean we hate kids we just don't want to have them.


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## GotGarlic (Jul 5, 2008)

suziquzie said:


> I hate to possibly offend again, but I gotta know.....
> Do those of you without children fault or think less of those of us who do have them???
> This was the beginning of the reason for asking, but did not want to start off with it.



I don't have children, partly because I have to take medication that is toxic to a fetus, but I also chose not to adopt, because I have chronic illnesses that I think would be too hard on a child, and too hard on me trying to take care of a child. So we "borrow" exchange students  They're teenagers when they come to us, so it's much easier to take care of them.

I have always felt that everyone should be productive in life, but there are lots of ways to do that. Working at a paid job, going to school, raising children and/or volunteering with a charity or in the community are all great ways to contribute to society.

What drives me nuts is people who don't do *anything* - like my neighbor's daughter. She had two kids in her teens by two different fathers, and both children are now living with their fathers' families. She seems to spend her days sitting around smoking. She doesn't work or go to school. Doesn't do anything but smoke, as far as I can see. It's really sad to watch.

I hope this answers your question, Suzi. IMO, it's a great thing you're doing


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## MexicoKaren (Jul 5, 2008)

SQ, I think you initiated a really profound discussion that featured many different points of view and honestly expressed feelings. That's pretty rare on an internet forum, but this is an TRULY exceptional group of people. I am really impressed by the quality of this discussion and want to commend all of you for being so honest.


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## Claire (Jul 5, 2008)

Why is it that when I write a response I think is important, it gets lost?  Anyway, I chose childless,and anyone who wants to talk about it knows how to find me!  Not everyone is mean to be a parent, and many who think they are really should think about it as well.


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 5, 2008)

Russellkhan said:


> Not conclusive. A quick Googling shows Monsanto money funding Cornell studies.



Did you also notice the very last paragraph?

 "more long-term studies on possible effects of bGH are needed"

I am not sure I would call that conclusive either when even they admit more studies are needed. And yes, I have always felt it wise to trace funding sources prior to making a decision on how reliable I will consider the study to be.


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## Dove (Jul 5, 2008)

*John was born 9 months 1 hour and 21 min. after we said "I do" ...Paul said "I did?" for the next 52 years....then Kevin came along 17 years after John and I thank God for him everyday. He is all that has kept me on this earth...really.*


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## Katie H (Jul 5, 2008)

Sleep evades me once again, so I've been reading threads that interest me tonight.

Having children is a very, very personal decision...provided that decision is made beyond the back seat of a car or without the aid of an intoxicant.

I had a very dysfunctional childhood.  Became the "parent" of my 4 younger siblings when I was 8-years-old.  That should've been enough to "cure" me from wanting children of my own, since I never really had a childhood.  Strangely, I wanted children from the time I was in elementary school.  Buck always said I was a born mother.

My daddy was a doctor and I clearly remember asking him when I was about 13-years-old if there was a test that could be administered  that could tell me if I could have children or not.  He told me there was one but that it was costly and somewhat painful.  Bear in mind this was in the mid-60s.

So...I married for the first time at 19.  To a widower with a 4-year-old son.  Shortly into the marriage we tried to conceive.  Nothing.  Nothing.  Nothing.

Went to a doc.  He told me it would be unlikely I'd ever have children due to a condition with my ovaries.  I was heartbroken.  Yet, he said, he'd order a series of tests to evaluate the severity of my condition.  And, yes, my daddy was correct.  The tests were expensive and not the most comfortable thing I'd ever experienced.

It was determined that I was a candidate for one of the earlier fertility drugs.  It was either that or have surgery to have a "wedge" cut out of my ovaries to allow my eggs to escape in order to be fertilized.  I opted for the drug.

Joy of joys, I became pregnant with my first son.  However, it wasn't easy sailing because the pregnancy was, shall I say, challenging.  Thankfully, in December 1970 we welcomed our son, who was healthy and sound.

Fast forward several years later.  Wanted more children.  Each one was gained via fertility drugs.  By 1974 I'd had son, daughter, son.  Tried for a 4th child.  No dice but, by then, my marriage was in the toilet.  Husband, as it turned out, had multiple girlfriends, roached our finances, was dealing child porn,  and, ultimately, was fired from his secured government job.

Back up one year, in 1973 my daddy died suddenly and I became the legal guardian of my two younger sisters, aged 12 and 13.  Now I had 5 children in the house and I was only 24-years-old.

In 1976 I became a single mom.  I was a basket case and had been beaten down so much by my husband I was amazed Buck even looked at me twice.

Buck came with baggage, too.  Not a pretty first marriage either and two young sons about the same age as my two oldest.  Somehow it all meshed.

To use a cliche, we became the Brady Bunch and, again, I had a houseful of children.  I loved it.  Buck only had one younger brother and he discovered how much fun a goofy, large family could be.  But, it's not for everyone.

Thankfully, all 5 of the children are close.  Have been together since they were about 2-years-old, so they've grown up together.  Celebrated birthdays together, shopped for Christmas presents together, etc.  We were blessed because blended families are the things nightmares are made of.

I wish I had a penny for every time Buck said I was meant to be a mother.  I'd be rich beyond imagination.  I loved it when he said that.

This is my story and I'm sticking to it.  I'm blessed that all the children are here for me and even though Buck's sons weren't born under my heart, they are in my heart and always will be.

For those folks who choose not to have children, you make your choice because you feel it's best for you and I respect that.  Being a parent is not for everyone, but it's perfect for me.


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## lulu (Jul 5, 2008)

suziquzie said:


> I hate to possibly offend again, but I gotta know.....
> Do those of you without children fault or think less of those of us who do have them???
> This was the beginning of the reason for asking, but did not want to start off with it.


 
Oh goodness, now this is hard, because just as you don't want to offend neither do I.   Most people, absolutely not!  Some people ar truley gifted parents (I think my DH would be) and I would have a child myself (or 2) if I can.   But there are some people, they used to be a minority, but there seem more and more of them, who I don't know why they have children, and its very rare they have one.  SOmetimes I get a little sad that these poeple who seem not to care about what their kids eat, their education, their friends, can have children so easily and often and that I who would care passionately abou bing the best parent I could be can't, but prhaps that's just jealousy   I seriously doubt anyone who bothers to frequent a site about cooking is one of those parents. 

I seriously think opting to have more than two children in an overpopulated world merits serious consideration.  But for those parents who are gifted I can see why the temptation would be great.

I hope my answer doesn't offend.


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## expatgirl (Jul 5, 2008)

I think that this is a very provocative post that's remained amazingly free from ruffled feathers.......any disagreements or agreements tend to depend on your own family's history and everyone has their own baggage that they carry with to a marriage or relationship and the decision to have children or not to and then there are the stepchildren that also come along with it all and have to be considered like others have pointed out.....Susique, thanks, and I hope that people will continue to share their thoughts and experiences


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## Claire (Jul 5, 2008)

JPM thank you for putting it so well. I followed through on my decision to remain childless. When I was young, I knew I would have a large family. I was the eldest of a fairly large family, and loved my role. However, Mom taught me that the judicious use of birth control was important to a loving family, and that there should be no unwanted children in the world, certainly not in her family. I married quite young the first time around and recongnised that my druggie husband was NOT father material. When I remarried (25 years now), I told my husband that I was not very tolerant of most methods of birth control, so .... kids or no? We discussed it and concluded .... no.

Now as we're celebrating our 25th year of marriage, my husband is gratefull to me for not just leaving it to happenstance the way most people do.  We are watching our friends trying to raise their grandchildren because their kids simply won't take responsibility for their lives.  Of course, we'd like to think that if we had kids, ours would be better.  But that is a fool's paradise.  Having children is a full time commitment for two people, not a part time job for one.  My husband and I realized that we _could_ take on that commitment, and were probably more suited to do so than most.  However that responsibility should be taken on knowingly and lovingly and not be accidental.


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## Alix (Jul 5, 2008)

I haven't weighing in until now. First, I just want to say how impressed I am with everyone who has responded. This is one of those topics Mod watch with their teeth clenched and finger poised above the lock down button. 

I'm one of those people who never actually had the opportunity to make a decision about having kids. God made that one for us. Didn't seem to matter how many methods of birth control were being used at once when God said "NOW" I got pregnant. Twice. LOL. I guess I should be grateful all our other ducks were either in a row or nearly there. 

Since I work with families who are struggling with raising their kids I often ask myself why one person or another made the choice that they did. I believe that we all must know ourselves well enough to know if we are "parent" material. My hat is off to those of you who realized it was not for you. Parenting is about readjusting your priorities and putting yourself further down the list than you once were. If you can't or won't do that, you need to be realistic about your decisions. So many of the kids I see are so messed up because their parents are selfish -------- (fill in the blanks yourself) and consistently put their WANTS ahead of their kids NEEDS. 

Ooops. Sorry. Off my soapbox now. In any case, the decision to get pregnant was not mine, but the decision to be a parent was. I will never forget the abject terror I felt when I realized I was now responsible for a life other than my own. It took me a while to come to terms with not being #1 on my list for awhile, but I adjusted. I think that must be why you get 9 months before the little boogers arrive.


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## Alix (Jul 5, 2008)

Oh, and Maverick...I'm going to go post about early puberty in another thread and post a link if you are interested.

Edit: Early Puberty thread


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## GrillingFool (Jul 5, 2008)

I look at mot having kids as exceptionally generous and UNSELFISH.

My sister was selfish and had 2 kids because, in her words, she
wanted to "feel loved".
Once they got older, she pretty much stopped being a parent.
Both are high school dropouts; her daughter has 2 at age 21.


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## suzyQ3 (Jul 5, 2008)

suziquzie said:


> The baby borrowers got me thinking...
> For those of you with no children, and no intent on having them.... why?
> I get when you can't, you can't, or a bad relationship.... but my brother and SIL have decided not to, and I'm not sure why.
> Yeah, they are loud and seem to interrupt things alot, but it's also the best thing I ever did!
> Not passing judgement one bit.... just curious.



Those who don't want children probably have several compelling and personal reasons. They really shouldn't have to answer to anyone and should never be judged for not doing something that others consider essential. I'm not directing that to you but to all those who think it's appropriate to ask people that question and to ask it usually with a very judgmental attitude.

The better question to pose would be to ask those who say they_ want_ a child just what made _them_ come to that decision. They are the ones who will affect us all with their decision to procreate. It's a decision that should not be made lightly or without much thought and consideration.


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## Alix (Jul 5, 2008)

suzyQ3 said:


> The better question to pose would be to ask those who say they_ want_ a child just what made _them_ come to that decision. They are the ones who will affect us all with their decision to procreate. It's a decision that should not be made lightly or without much thought and consideration.



Agreed, but suzy, pregnancy is one of those things that happens accidentally even in this day and age. (OK, and lets not do the prolife vs prochoice debate here.) The point I'm making is rather that when "accidents" happen sometimes you just need to step up. This is a personal opinion of mine since I personally never actually made a decision to become pregnant. I just decided to be the best parent I could be once that choice was made for me.

I guess I'm saying the decision is not merely whether to become pregnant, but rather to be a good parent.


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## suzyQ3 (Jul 5, 2008)

Alix said:


> Agreed, but suzy, pregnancy is one of those things that happens accidentally even in this day and age. (OK, and lets not do the prolife vs prochoice debate here.) The point I'm making is rather that when "accidents" happen sometimes you just need to step up. This is a personal opinion of mine since I personally never actually made a decision to become pregnant. I just decided to be the best parent I could be once that choice was made for me.
> 
> I guess I'm saying the decision is not merely whether to become pregnant, but rather to be a good parent.



Yes, Alix, you're absolutely correct about those "accidents." But since the OP was asking about deliberate decisions, that what I focused on.


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## Alix (Jul 5, 2008)

Understood suzy, and hopefully I was clear about saying it was a personal opinion of mine that I was sharing.


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## blissful (Jul 5, 2008)

Katie E said:


> Sleep evades me once again, so I've been reading threads that interest me tonight.
> 
> Having children is a very, very personal decision...provided that decision is made beyond the back seat of a car or without the aid of an intoxicant.
> 
> ...


 
Angel head, you have a beautiful life. Thank God, I pray for you and yours. ~blissful


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 5, 2008)

Alix said:


> Oh, and Maverick...I'm going to go post about early puberty in another thread and post a link if you are interested.
> 
> Edit: Early Puberty thread



Cool, I think it is a very interesting topic, one of many such things parents have to consider and deal with in todays world.

Sometimes I wish for the 'Good Ol Days', then I realize there is no way I am washing clothes by hand...


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 5, 2008)

Alix said:


> Agreed, but suzy, pregnancy is one of those things that happens accidentally even in this day and age. (OK, and lets not do the prolife vs prochoice debate here.) The point I'm making is rather that when "accidents" happen sometimes you just need to step up.


This is a great point, Alix. I think many of us here at DC would be amused to find out how many of our parents were "surprised" to have us. Thankfully, with birth control being widely available and in many forms, there aren't so many surprises in life. But I have always told my children to make sure when they are deciding about whether or not to have an intimate relationship with someone, think really hard about it. Make sure it is someone you could see every day for at least the next 18 or so years because there is _always_ a chance of pregnancy, no matter how careful you are. If you don't think the person you wanna fall in the sack with would be a good co-parent with you if the unexpected happens, maybe you don't want to do this.


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## Bigjim68 (Jul 5, 2008)

I think that is the best advice you could give anyone.  If I offered you a job that you could not get out of for 18 years, required 24/7, had no benefits, no vacations, and then asked you to pay me instead of the other way around, you would think I was nuts.  Yet that is parenthood.


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## expatgirl (Jul 5, 2008)

I had a high school (chemistry, biology, health) teacher, Mrs Swartz, who was the coolest teacher around.  She'd be in her 90's now and I know that she is still alive and ticking somewhere..........Mrs. S said that in her classroom we laid sex right on the table and she did.........just spelled it out.......... She preached that having kids is a commitment for at least the next 18 years of your life........decide if you want to make that commitment......did give pause to me that's for sure........my parents had 4 under the age of 5 until they figured it out and I was probably on the honeymoon with them as I was born exactly 9 months later..............as old wise Mrs. S would say......give your parents a break......they are  just a couple of dumb kids who got married once.......she was so funny and I idolized her as you can tell.......so wise.......a Gemini, by the way  Anyway, if it's going to happen it's going to happen......just be ready to deal with it whatever you decide and I like Fisher's Mom comment of making sure it's someone that you're compatible with if possible...  no birth control is 100% foolproof........and guess what as it happened to us with our oldest son most parents will help out........they might be shell-shocked like we were but most will help out if they can...we adore our 5 yr. old granddaughter today.........our son and his wife still can stand the sight of each other and seem to work well together so I guess that's a thumb's up


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## suzyQ3 (Jul 5, 2008)

_But I have always told my children to make sure when they are deciding about whether or not to have an intimate relationship with someone, think really hard about it. Make sure it is someone you could see every day for at least the next 18 or so years because there is __always a chance of pregnancy, no matter how careful you are. If you don't think the person you wanna fall in the sack with would be a good co-parent with you if the unexpected happens, maybe you don't want to do this.
_
Excellent advice, and I'm sure I expressed similar sentiments to my daughter when she was a teen. But here's the thing, expatgirl, most adolescents, under the sway not only of hormones but all sorts of pressures, will most likely not take such advice under consideration at that crucial moment. They just won't.

So IMO, the emphasis on effective birth control measures should take center stage, regardless of their imperfect record.


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 5, 2008)

I think birth control has a good record but it is only as good as the person using it. If you don't follow instructions you raise your chances of conceiving. And then there are the stupid females that believe if they get pregnant they will be able to hang on the man that will not commit to them in the first place. Major mistake and a major really stupid bad reason to have a kid.


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 5, 2008)

suzyQ3 said:


> _But I have always told my children to make sure when they are deciding about whether or not to have an intimate relationship with someone, think really hard about it. Make sure it is someone you could see every day for at least the next 18 or so years because there is __always a chance of pregnancy, no matter how careful you are. If you don't think the person you wanna fall in the sack with would be a good co-parent with you if the unexpected happens, maybe you don't want to do this.
> _
> Excellent advice, and I'm sure I expressed similar sentiments to my daughter when she was a teen. But here's the thing, expatgirl, most adolescents, under the sway not only of hormones but all sorts of pressures, will most likely not take such advice under consideration at that crucial moment. They just won't.
> 
> So IMO, the emphasis on effective birth control measures should take center stage, regardless of their imperfect record.


I agree 100% that a solid working knowledge of birth control should be something every teen has.

In my own case, I can't count the number of teens who have sat at my table while I demonstrated the "putting the condom on the banana" thing. My own kids would bring home their friends who were getting serious with their boyfriends/girlfriends and say "Mom, Mom, show them the banana thing". I would look them straight in the eye while I explained the whole thing, using all of the correct terms. Almost 100% of them would turn red and be unable to look at me or giggle nervously. Then I would tell them that intimacy was serious business. Indeed, your very life could depend upon how you handle this. If you can't handle even looking at a condom or discuss how to use one properly so that it won't "fail", then sex probably isn't something you are ready for.

But I also felt that it was important to explain the larger consequences of intimacy. So many teens are led to believe it is the only and the best way to express love.

For my sons' friends, I would explain that a guy who truly loves a girl will care enough about her to protect her from consequences that may be more than she can handle and could affect the rest of her life. I would tell them that the real measure of a man is not how much "love" he gets, but how he protects those he loves. That includes his family, who would also be forever affected by an unintentional pregnancy. It's been my experience that teens are not only driven by hormones, but by emotions too.

I don't know how all of them turned out but as far as I know, none of the kids who sat at my table had children in their teens. I don't know if they avoided sexual activity or not. And I eventually stopped being referred to as the banana lady. (Actually, it may have worked too well because I have 7 children - 4 of whom are adult and 3 are in their 30s - and I have _no_ grandchildren yet!!!!!)


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 5, 2008)

Fisher's Mom said:


> I agree 100% that a solid working knowledge of birth control should be something every teen has.
> 
> In my own case, I can't count the number of teens who have sat at my table while I demonstrated the "putting the condom on the banana" thing. My own kids would bring home their friends who were getting serious with their boyfriends/girlfriends and say "Mom, Mom, show them the banana thing". I would look them straight in the eye while I explained the whole thing, using all of the correct terms. Almost 100% of them would turn red and be unable to look at me or giggle nervously. Then I would tell them that intimacy was serious business. Indeed, your very life could depend upon how you handle this. If you can't handle even looking at a condom or discuss how to use one properly so that it won't "fail", then sex probably isn't something you are ready for.
> 
> ...



Go back over the banana thing, but this time show em the _wrong_ way to do it!


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## suzyQ3 (Jul 5, 2008)

Fisher's Mom said:


> I agree 100% that a solid working knowledge of birth control should be something every teen has.
> 
> In my own case, I can't count the number of teens who have sat at my table while I demonstrated the "putting the condom on the banana" thing. My own kids would bring home their friends who were getting serious with their boyfriends/girlfriends and say "Mom, Mom, show them the banana thing". I would look them straight in the eye while I explained the whole thing, using all of the correct terms. Almost 100% of them would turn red and be unable to look at me or giggle nervously. Then I would tell them that intimacy was serious business. Indeed, your very life could depend upon how you handle this. If you can't handle even looking at a condom or discuss how to use one properly so that it won't "fail", then sex probably isn't something you are ready for.
> 
> ...



Brilliant post, Fisher's Mom. Thank you.


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 5, 2008)

Maverick2272 said:


> Go back over the banana thing, but this time show em the _wrong_ way to do it!


 I have told them that I'd really like at least one grandchild someday and that if they wanted to draw straws to see who had to do the deed, that was OK with me.


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 5, 2008)

Tell em get started soon or you know someone on DC that will let you adopt three as your grandchildren!


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 5, 2008)

Maverick2272 said:


> Tell em get started soon or you know someone on DC that will let you adopt three as your grandchildren!


I would jump on this in a heartbeat, Mav! I've seen your kids - they are absolutely gorgeous!


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 5, 2008)

Aww Thanks...

Now when can I send em down there??


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 5, 2008)

Here is my story, as a teenager in the early 70s and I believe it should really apply now to young girls now. I was a young really cute girl I had a lot of dates in High School and I really wanted a boyfriend really bad but I knew in my heart that if a boy that really liked me he would not press me for sex well obviously they did try to get it but I never put out as a result I got dumped all the time but to me I knew they were not into me but looking to get layed I was so smart in those days. Got teased alot as well mostly by girls they called me Prudence and Virgin Mary. Not to say when I got older I was a bit wild but I was much older then and even more wiser.


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 5, 2008)

jpmcgrew said:


> Here is my story, as a teenager in the early 70s and I believe it should really apply now to young girls now. I was a young really cute girl I had a lot of dates in High School and I really wanted a boyfriend really bad but I knew in my heart that if a boy that really liked me he would not press me for sex well obviously they did try to get it but I never put out as a result I got dumped all the time but to me I knew they were not into me but looking to get layed I was so smart in those days. Got teased alot as well mostly by girls they called me Prudence and Virgin Mary. Not to say when I got older I was a bit wild but I was much older then and even more wiser.



Funny you should mention that, I actually got dumped by three girlfriends for not having sex with them. I actually had one that thought I didn't like her just because, the first time I actually met her, in a movie theater doubling with my friend and his girlfriend, I didn't put my arm around her and start making moves on her and making out with her.
Um, yea I just met her that night!?


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## darlenemt08 (Jul 6, 2008)

I'm 42 yrs. old and I'm single.  I haven't found the right guy yet.  I can't have kids and it doesn't bother me.  When I was younger, I wanted 10 kids.  LOL  Boy, I sure don't know where my mind was then.  LOL  I babysat very little when I was a teenager and those kids were older kids and harder for me to control.  I'm 4', 5-1/2" tall and kids who are my size & taller and, 8 yrs. & up are usually harder for me to control.  As an adult, I accidentally fell into babysitting for a living and I did it for 17 yrs.  Throughout that time, I learned to change diapers.   YUCK!!!  Heck, I'd NEVER changed diapers while growing up!  My mom, dad, older sisters, or other adult
changed my younger brother's diapers.  I still have trouble changing messy diapers & wiping butts and I have come close to throwing up many times.  LOL  I've learned to clean up vomit and that's worse than changing diapers.  I cleaned it up and almost throwed up MANY times.  Either clean it up and deal with the fact of throwing up/almost throwing up or, just leave it for the babysitting parents to clean it up after they come home and let the kids run through it.  I chose to clean it up and get it over with.  While cleaning up, I'd run into the other room for fresh breaths about every min. or two.  LOL  I also PRAYED TO GOD for help!  LOL  As always, He helped me through it.  I lost my patience many times and my temper flaired.  Almost all of the families allowed me to spank their kids...only had one who didn't allow it.  I used my hand but left the spanking boards up to the parents to use after they come home.  Many times, I was accidentally called "Mom" and many times, I felt like one.  LOL  I felt like yanking my hair out many times!  LOL  I've learned quickly that whatever I'd say, the kids would also say and so, I had to think before saying certain things, especially when I was angry.  I was never comfortable around kids and so, I learned a lot while babysitting.  I was such a good babysitter that I had a list of clients.  Certain jobs were full-time and others were an occasional day or weekend job.  I'm a crafter and started doing crafts with the kids.  I had one family with 4 kids and the parents praised me with doing crafts with their kids.  The 3 older kids' (preschool - 7 yrs.) teachers said that they saw the difference in those kids than other kids in the classes.  These kids were outgoing and anxious to start crafting when it was craft time while the other kids would stand back and didn't know what to do.  I shared my love of doing plastic canvas crafts with the 3 olders kids in this same family.  I still do an occasional craft with my nieces & nephews.  I've seen the changes in the kids whom I've babysat for.  I've watched certain ones in my area grow up over the years and have gone to a few graduations.  Boy, that makes me feel a bit older.  LOL

Babysitting showed me that I don't want kids...well, at least not babies or toddler age.  Once the right guy comes along, I'd be willing to adopt an older child.  I'd love to have somebody to do crafts with or cook with.  I love to cook & bake and it'd be nice to share that with a child.  It's OK if my future husband has a child or two.  If they're well-behaved, that'd be great.  If not, I may grow gray hair faster.  LOL  I'd deal with it IF I cross that bridge.

My 3 dogs are my "kids".  I've shared a house with my older sister for the past 21 yrs. and we've had at least 1 dog for most of those years but our family slowly grew.  My dogs drive me nuts many times but I have trouble saying 'no' or punishing them when they give me those special looks.  You can do things with dogs that you can't with kids.  I love coming home from wherever and there's all 3 barking at me with the youngest screaming.  LOL  My mom & dad have accepted the fact that my sister's & my dogs are our "kids" and they're also their "granddogs".  Our parents have also pretty much accepted the fact that my sister & I don't plan to give them grandkids.  My 2 mottoes in my signature says what I think of dogs.

Early in my sister's & my adult years, we both would get asked about why we weren't married and didn't have kids.  Finally, my sister came up with something to shut certain female cousins up.  She said that getting married is our business.  She said that if we wanted to have kids, we would have had them.  We're not in abusive relationships, divorced, single & pregnant, live on welfare, have AIDS or other diseases.  We're happy being single and without kids.

I don't care what others think when they're wondering if I'm going to have kids whenever I get married.  It's MY business what I do with my life.  It's between GOD & me, NOT them & me.  For those who want kids and can't have them, I feel sad for you.  I know of women who can't get pregnant and really want to have their own kids.  If adoption is an option, go for it.  Try adopting older kids and show them that they CAN be adopted at their age.  For those who chooses not to have kids, I stand behind you.  It's YOUR decision to decide not to have kids, NOT others.  Just don't let others try to force you into having kids just because they've got them or your parents are pestering you to have them.

Well, that's it from lil' ol' me.

Darlene


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## PytnPlace (Jul 6, 2008)

I always wanted kids, ever since I can remember.  Just had a strong maternal instiinct, I guess.  And I was fortunate to have two, done having babies by 25.  Now they are grown and I'm still relatively young (forties).  It was tough when they flew the coop, but now I'm loving life.

My heart goes out to those that struggle to concieve.  And I have a HUGE respect for those that decide that parenting is not something they desire and make sure it doesn't happen.  Being a mom is an experience I treasure for many reasons.  But we are all wired differently.  Kudo's to you that make a conscious decision NOT to be a parent.  I wish more people were as wise.


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## blissful (Jul 6, 2008)

Fisher's Mom, you are way cool. I had the same talks with my teenagers (while the 10 year old overheard the talk). They called me the condom lady. I used a rootbeer bottle, though the banana would have worked, had we had bananas in the house that day. The neighborhood boys would take condoms from the medicine cabinet--better safe than sorry.
Later that day, the 10 year old is making on a comment on something completely unrelated, and he says 'That makes condom sense'.........we all burst out laughing. Poor kid can't live that one down and he's 17 now.


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## expatgirl (Jul 6, 2008)

blissful said:


> Fisher's Mom, you are way cool. I had the same talks with my teenagers (while the 10 year old overheard the talk). They called me the condom lady. I used a rootbeer bottle, though the banana would have worked, had we had bananas in the house that day. The neighborhood boys would take condoms from the medicine cabinet--better safe than sorry.
> Later that day, the 10 year old is making on a comment on something completely unrelated, and he says 'That makes condom sense'.........we all burst out laughing. Poor kid can't live that one down and he's 17 now.


  too funny........is that a slip of the banana peel?

My foot was halfway in the nunnery when I married........used to wrap a towel around my head and give out Holy Communion in the neighborhood---thought I wanted to be a nun for the longest time........boy did my dad get some phone calls  But, I also knew thanks to Mrs. Schwartz in high school that it takes only one time and you can become a parent for the next 18 years of your life......no way was it happening to me.....oldest of 5 and had very little as a result and  had to babysit thru my teens  (most exciting experience was having a toddler throw up in my waist length hair--every strand was covered and also the fountains of urine splashed in my face when changing a boy--I swear that they knew what they were doing).......no way was I going to be tied down with kids.........had to be talked into my first one at age 28......really  didn't want any until I had my goddaughter and then I wanted one......but we were financially independent by then, too, with both of us having worked for 8 years......  No, not until they hit their teens was there a wee bit of regret.....but that too did pass......now my two are great adults......

I'll be the first to defend anyone's rights to choose for themselves........


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 6, 2008)

blissful said:


> Fisher's Mom, you are way cool. I had the same talks with my teenagers (while the 10 year old overheard the talk). They called me the condom lady. I used a rootbeer bottle, though the banana would have worked, had we had bananas in the house that day. The neighborhood boys would take condoms from the medicine cabinet--better safe than sorry.
> Later that day, the 10 year old is making on a comment on something completely unrelated, and he says 'That makes condom sense'.........we all burst out laughing. Poor kid can't live that one down and he's 17 now.


OMG Bliss, that is soooo funny! He sounds like a great kid! And I'm thinking your family will be saying "condom sense" for generations to come.  I never thought of the rootbeer bottle - it would have been better maybe. I stuck to bananas and cucumbers.


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 6, 2008)

expatgirl said:


> My foot was halfway in the nunnery when I married........used to wrap a towel around my head and give out Holy Communion in the neighborhood---thought I wanted to be a nun for the longest time........boy did my dad get some phone calls


I can't get that picture out of my head now - you with a towel around your head giving the sacrament! My naughty son Nick went to a Catholic school here for kinder through 2nd grade. Since we aren't Catholic, the Mass was new to him and he was really taken with the sacrament, too. He used a Dixie cup with a kleenex laid over the top and gave us all communion at least daily for months. The funniest part was the priest at the school was Irish with a very thick brogue and Nick always used the accent when he gave communion, too!


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 6, 2008)

Yea, I can just see me handing out the sacrament while my 3 year old is tugging at me leg saying, "I wan sum, I wan sum!"


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## expatgirl (Jul 6, 2008)

Fisher's Mom said:


> I can't get that picture out of my head now - you with a towel around your head giving the sacrament! My naughty son Nick went to a Catholic school here for kinder through 2nd grade. Since we aren't Catholic, the Mass was new to him and he was really taken with the sacrament, too. He used a Dixie cup with a kleenex laid over the top and gave us all communion at least daily for months. The funniest part was the priest at the school was Irish with a very thick brogue and Nick always used the accent when he gave communion, too!



How funny, Fisher's Mom, how cute and I can just visualize him doing it, too!!!!  We had a Dutch priest in my gram's parish who was scary in the confessional who once asked me at age 6 if  I thought playing was a sin. What was this?  A trick question?  This wasn't in the catechism that we had to painstakingly memorize....  So I hesitatingly quivered a "no???"  Then he had the nerve to ask me why not.....now I knew we were in a different world.........uh, cause Jesus played?????....... Pause...."Gut answer" was his reply........glad I could think quickly on my knees.....

Yeah, I'm sure I looked hilarious in my "Nun" getup........and Mav I have witnessed kids in church demanding to have the McWafers to go, too!!!  Yep, if you have them, you will certainly laugh...........


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## babetoo (Jul 6, 2008)

when my daughter was little , we attended the wedding of a cousin. the chapel was very old and neither the seating nor the sound was very good. i put her on the aisle so she could see better.

few minutes later , very loudly she said "do u suppose god gets bored at weddings" much laughter from the congregation. i was embarrassed. 

babe


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## expatgirl (Jul 6, 2008)

babetoo said:


> when my daughter was little , we attended the wedding of a cousin. the chapel was very old and neither the seating nor the sound was very good. i put her on the aisle so she could see better.
> 
> few minutes later , very loudly she said "do u suppose god gets bored at weddings" much laughter from the congregation. i was embarrassed.
> 
> babe



OMG!!  I'm laughing so hard!!!  Kids do tell it like it is that's for sure......!!!


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 6, 2008)

Too funny!!


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## suziquzie (Jul 6, 2008)

Fisher's Mom said:


> I have told them that I'd really like at least one grandchild someday and that if they wanted to draw straws to see who had to do the deed, that was OK with me.


 
Geez FM you're looking for grandkids already???
Chill!!! Take a mintue for a shower and a book ALL in the same DAY!!!!! 

I always wanted kids, timing wasn't picked... TJ and I had been best friends and dated on and off from age 16 til 23, then we finally hooked up..... and moved to Indiana together.. (DUMB IDEA! Indiana, not him.)
We came back and were house hunting, thinking how horrible it would be to be "tied down" right now and not be able to do what you want whenever you want. I kid you not, 3 days after this conversation I find myself with child....
oops. 
LONG story short, we had a boy, bought a house, had another boy, bought another house, got married, lost a baby , and Lego girl rounded out the bunch. 
My parents were 34 and 37 when they STARTED having kids. I knew I didn't want that. Imgine not getting rid of ME til you were almost ready to retire???? 
That's part of my story and I'm stickin' to it....


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## Alix (Jul 6, 2008)

OK, I gotta comment on the "using birth control correctly" thing. Trust me when I tell you that even using the methods correctly (and more than one at a time I might add) is STILL not fail safe. The only fail safe method is abstinence. Even the Pill can be compromised. 

And expatgirl, love the nun thing!


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## suziquzie (Jul 6, 2008)

I second her motion.....
My first and "technical" third (lost that one) BOTH happened while taking MANY precautions! (including abstinence by the 3rd one ha ha    )


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 6, 2008)

All of ours came along when using protection... go figure LOL.


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## StellaSquash (Jul 6, 2008)

Almost as soon as I was out of my wedding dress, I was ready for kids. I literally had that "longing" feeling. I went through a miscarriage, but a year and a half after our wedding, my son was born. Two years and twelve days later, I had my daughter. The direct result of another "longing". To date, I have NOT had that longing. 

I see babies all the time. I get a tiny twinge, but within a few minutes, I'm once again back to the "no more kids" sense.  Not to say that couldn't change, but we're at that point where we can up and go, or at the very lease, sleep more than 3 hours in a stretch. lol

I also had the chance to see another side of "longing". I was a gestational surrogate for a couple who couldn't have children.  It took us two years to finally deliver a baby girl and I can tell you, I NEVER in my life experienced that kind of longing. 

I have a greater understanding of the pain of not being able to have kids. It makes me mad when friends and family think it's their business to know "when are you going to have kids?" Almost like it's a requirement for being married. 

Both of my husbands siblings are unable to have children. From the little bit I got from my one sister in law, my mother in law felt they weren't "trying hard enough".   I don't understand why people feel that having children is the only logical thing to do after marriage. 

I have nothing but respect for people that choose not to have children. Their reasons make no difference. Obviously I think kids would enhance their lives, but that doesn't mean it's true. I'm biased.  

Admittedly, there are times when my mind wanders and I wonder what my life would be like without kids. I don't mean I wish that, I just wonder.  Some people just have a lifestyle not suited for children, and they enjoy it. There's really nothing wrong with that, imo, and I commend them for not trying to stick kids into a lifestyle that doesn't fit.


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 6, 2008)

Alix said:


> OK, I gotta comment on the "using birth control correctly" thing. Trust me when I tell you that even using the methods correctly (and more than one at a time I might add) is STILL not fail safe. The only fail safe method is abstinence. Even the Pill can be compromised.
> 
> And expatgirl, love the nun thing!


So true, Alix. That's why you have to ready for anything! But it amazes me that so many people don't know how to put a condom on correctly (I don't know how to clarify this without getting graphic) - the directions are right on the package! (Wait - I may have just figured that out. Men and reading directions. Hmmm)

Also, there are a lot of teen girls that don't understand that birth control pills do not become fully effective until you have taken them for 2 months. Or that you can't just take them when you are going to have sex. Or that they are not effective if you are taking antibiotics or certain other medications.

Because no method is 100% effective even when used correctly, it's really important that teens understand exactly how to use each method to minimize the failure rate. After all, they are the least prepared to handle the consequences if an unexpected pregnancy occurs.


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## B'sgirl (Jul 6, 2008)

lulu said:


> I seriously think opting to have more than two children in an overpopulated world merits serious consideration.  But for those parents who are gifted I can see why the temptation would be great.
> 
> I hope my answer doesn't offend.



I'm not offended and don't mean to offend either. I just wanted to put in a word about overpopulation. I think this world is capable of providing sustenance for many, many more people than currently live in it. It is the way we humans manage our land, resources, and relationships that cause hunger and other problems. You are right that there is a problem, but there are those who contribute to the problem and those who contribute to society.

I intend to have 5 or 6 children and I don't think I'll be contributing to the world hunger problem. I intend to raise children who grow up to be good individuals who contribute to society and help provide rather than take away. And I don't intend to have more children than I can afford to provide for with my own money and resources. I think the problem comes when people who cannot or will not provide for their own children have them. I'd say more but it would involve politics, which is taboo here.

I wish I could sow my tone of voice in writing just so you could tell that i'm not angry or accusing. Just stating my belief on the topic.


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## Bigjim68 (Jul 6, 2008)

I was listening to Dr. Dean Odell (a syndicated doctor) on my way back from NC today, and this subject came up.  Dr Odell stated that there can be "leakage" even after a vasectomy.  Now that is scary.


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## miniman (Jul 7, 2008)

Bigjim68 said:


> I was listening to Dr. Dean Odell (a syndicated doctor) on my way back from NC today, and this subject came up. Dr Odell stated that there can be "leakage" even after a vasectomy. Now that is scary.


 
I know of someone who got pregnant after her husband had a vasectomy!!!


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## expatgirl (Jul 7, 2008)

Well, I can tell you about a very funny lady who had twins in her late 40's---Ginny was her name and we all loved her.......she was in our monthly pokeno group and noone missed her month-----Feb----she was the best Cajun cook ever.......anyway, Ginny told us that she got pregnant with TWINS after her DH's fixer upper and it was cause he wasn't going in for the tests---too much trouble........ most vasectomies in order to be effective have to have 2-3 semen tests in a row that show no activity........took my husband nearly 3 months to have those 3 in a row of no Mark Spitz olympic swimmers before you're considered safe..........glad, that I wasn't a pioneer woman or I would have been a Ma Kettle that's for sure...........


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## Foodfiend (Jul 7, 2008)

I've never even had the urge to have kids, and my parents don't seem to mind.  I'm now near the age of 50, so if I even wanted to, it's a little too late.  I was born an old maid and I'm going to die an old maid.  I've seen people my generation give birth to kids, and the kids have grown up wanting for nothing, and their 'little darlings' can do no wrong.  God help this country then for they are some of the laziest sons of hunka's I've ever seen.  They go whining to mama to fix the wrong they did by blaming it on somebody else, and then wonder why they don't have any friends to hang around with.  I'd (figuratively not literally) kill them!  Plus the fact that we've currently got the beginnings of WW3 wanting to start up in the middle east and I don't want to have to send kids over there.  There's enough over there as it is, and I'm praying for their safe return someday.  My frame set of mind was not made for kids, I never 'heard' my 'biological clock' go off (whatever THAT sounds like I'd sure like to know), and it's no big loss.  My parents as I said are okay with the thought that none of their 4 kids are going to have kids of their own, even though my younger brother has married into a pre-made family with the best well-behaved kids I've seen in a long time and one of them has ADD.


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## pugger (Jul 7, 2008)

*Planned on a Couple*

Good question, and insensitive if you equate the lack of kids to the intent not to have them. Though I'm sure most folks don't intend these questions that way. And there is nothing wrong w/ not wanting kids, either.

We planned on a couple of kids, nature planned on none. Fertility testing & methods, depression, hormonal imbalance due to fertility drugs and anguish over this are what most folks w/ kids are lucky enough not to know. Be grateful, and if you are about to tell someone, "don't worry, you'll have kids someday soon ..." or etc. , don't do it. We don't need to be reminded of what we're already living with.

Thanks.


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## suziquzie (Jul 7, 2008)

Um, I hope you dont mean I was being insensitive by asking. It was an innocent question, and I said in the very first post I understand that if you cant you cant. 
Never said there was anything wrong with not having them. Nobody did or would say that. 
My intent was not to hurt anyone and I'm sorry if I did.


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## pugger (Jul 7, 2008)

*No Harm Done*

No harm. I saw that & why I said "if you equate..." & note that most people do ask with pure motives. 

I would just make a point that there is a side to this issue that all should recognize. Sometimes what is insensitive or not is all in the eyes of the beholder.


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## suzyQ3 (Jul 7, 2008)

Absolutely there are accidents even when people take the proper precautions. But wouldn't most of you concede, especially today, that the vast majority of said "accidents" were either a result of mismanagement of birth control; innocent or willful ignorance; or a result of some deception, either explicit or more subconscious? 

Again, I am convinced that even with the best intentions and with the perfectly correct use of one or more birth control methods, all systems can and do fail. But I think such cases are now fairly rare compared to all other possible scenarios.


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## lulu (Jul 7, 2008)

Just thought it worth adding that at my very prim Convent boarding school we had th banana lesson.  (from a nun).  In fact, it was mandatory that we all attempt 'putting the rain coat on' a banana, a cucumber, a cougette, and (goodness help me) an aubergine.   Looking back I have to give absolute credit to our convent for putting our freedom to chose about birth control over their religious beliefs.  It was uncomfortabl at the time but it was indeed a valuable lesson.  We were taught well about abstaining too, bu for if/when that failed we were well prepared.  Funnily enough I find this sweet and adorable whereas I had some trouble when nurses were introduced to UK schools to do the same thing (and provide the contraception too).  I think the fact that the mssage that you don't HAVE to have sex was so much clearer in a religious single sex environment, made it much clearer what it as....a life lesson rather than a free ticket to hedonism!

Incidently, even the best birth control has a 99% rate.  Think how quickly you could get to 100%, its amazing how quickly you're paying russian roulette with that 1%.  I have to say that knowing your body well, and when you ned to be doubly cautious is important, and s few women seem to. 

I too am impressed with our considration and respect for opposong views here.  Its welcome.


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## expatgirl (Jul 7, 2008)

What an amazing school you went to, lulu!!!  How lucky you were and by nuns no less.....I'm really impressed............yep, I just didn't want to be in in that 1% either until I knew I was in a serious relationship and then we'd deal with the consequences if they came up........heard everything there was to tell in Mrs. Schwartz's class....made my mind up.........sure the odds of having a baby w/o using protection vs not is definitely considerably higher----no question but nothing is 100% foolproof except abstinence ........it does happen.........when my son told me that they had I looked him straight in the eye and said no, you didn't, and don't lie to me......he then admitted that no they hadn't........I'm no dummy...........got a beautiful granddaughter who's doing great  and their marriage is still strong after 5 years.......


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## Alix (Jul 7, 2008)

suzyQ3 said:


> Absolutely there are accidents even when people take the proper precautions. But wouldn't most of you concede, especially today, that the vast majority of said "accidents" were either a result of mismanagement of birth control; innocent or willful ignorance; or a result of some deception, either explicit or more subconscious?
> 
> Again, I am convinced that even with the best intentions and with the perfectly correct use of one or more birth control methods, all systems can and do fail. But I think such cases are now fairly rare compared to all other possible scenarios.



Suzy, I'm giggling a bit here. I can only speak for my own experiences, but the number of "accidents" in my close circle of friends is pretty darned high. And NONE of us who had accidents were lax in any way. We were all poor and trying hard not to have kids at that time. 1% as lulu says is a pretty high number if you are say...a newlywed. I'm not going to be more specific than that, but BOTH my children were unplanned (by me anyway, God is another matter). I'm figuring I am some kind of mathematical anomaly. And trust me, I know I was using the methods (please note the plural here) correctly. I don't disagree with your theory as a general rule, just among the folks I know well.

My applause too for the very gentle handling of such a delicate issue. Bravo DCers!


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## martinwoods (Jul 7, 2008)

I have two wonderful kids ages 24 and 20 but my mother was killed in an accident and that almost killed me, if it had not been for my kids I probably would not be here, but had I not had kids before that had happened I would never have kids because the loss is too unbearable and now all I do is worry about my kids and never want to go through that again. That is the reason I would not have kids if I did not already have them


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## MexicoKaren (Jul 7, 2008)

Welcome to DC, Martin - I am very sorry for your loss and hope your children continue to be a comfort to you.


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## martinwoods (Jul 7, 2008)

Thank you
I appreciate it.

If I had known something could hurt that bad I would have not had kids, then I would have nobody to worry about


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## foodstorm (Jul 7, 2008)

Never felt up to the challenge. When I look at the few people I know who I feel are really good parents, I see how much effort, dedication, sacrifice, money, time, etc. they put into rearing their children, and I know I can't offer that. And the thing is, if one is going to be a parent, that's the ONLY way to do it. It's not a job anyone should skimp on, imo.


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 7, 2008)

We actually sat in health class and watched Ronald Regan's son put a condom on a banana. Pretty funny at the time, and I remember just about all of the class goofed off at the time so it was a pretty wasted effort, they assumed they already knew it all. 

Remembering back to when I was a teenager, we had the 'invincible' attitude and just couldn't conceive of it happening to us. We carried our condoms in our wallets and assumed we were safe from anything (relating to pregnancy and STDs). The roll of the eyes was the attitude of the day.

And while I agree with what Alix is saying in that no form of birth control outside of abstinence is 100%, I have also seen first hand what suzyq3 is saying. You would think with all the sex ed in our schools they would know how to use this stuff by now? And given that no doctor would give a girl birth control without making sure she knew how it works and how to use it (Right? I know the wifes dr. went thru it all thoroughly), I have to wonder why so many would be blaming improper use of birth control?
Maybe it is actually a subconscious sabotage on their part?


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## expatgirl (Jul 7, 2008)

martinwoods said:


> Thank you
> I appreciate it.
> 
> If I had known something could hurt that bad I would have not had kids, then I would have nobody to worry about



Martin, I can certainly feel for you.......my father lost my mother to breast cancer when she was 30..... was diagnosed and already terminal at age 27.......he had 4 children with myself being the oldest at 9, then 8,6, and 3...........and then he had the army banging on his door to get his affairs in order so that they could send him to Viet Nam----he was in the 1st Calvary Division which meant that he would be in the thick of the fighting and leading his troops.......came under sniper fire twice and was awarded the Silver Star for bravery........he had to remarry and quickly......not the most motherly of people but we made do........so I can feel for you........I know that he held on for us.........


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## expatgirl (Jul 7, 2008)

by the way, my story is not meant to be a thread killer......I'm looking forward to seeing more postings.......just keep on going........this is fascinating..........


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## Alix (Jul 7, 2008)

OK expatgirl. By now we are so far from the original topic we've got an entirely new theme going on. But if suzi is fine with it, i'm good too. 

I can see what both SuzyQ3 and Maverick are saying about an accident on purpose. I've seen it happen too. I think most of us have. But I truly believe that those are the exception that proves the rule. Most of the ones I know about were true accidents. 

I'm not very articulate at the moment. I'll come back when I am. Sorry!


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## suziquzie (Jul 7, 2008)

No!!! how dare you get off topic!!!
jest kidding.... 
chat away my friends.


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## expatgirl (Jul 7, 2008)

Anyone have inlaws or outlaws try and guilt you into having kids or ask you when the bundles of joys were coming???? hahaha...........I think that my DH's husband were about ready to gift us with the manual---told us that they enjoyed the pitter patter of cats' and dogs' feet but they would like to hear the pitter patter of human feet.......   they were getting desperate.......then we called them with the news......my mother-in-law just about cried. and she's very level-headed like my DH...........seriously I had considered no kids.............but it was fun to reflect in their joy.........my husband's sister's son was born exactly 9 months later.......did we have them for their sakes.......no........we were ready and so were they.............


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## expatgirl (Jul 7, 2008)

I meant DH's Father was ready to gift us with the manual..........sorry.....writing too fast


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## suziquzie (Jul 7, 2008)

DH's dad was ready for us to have #2.... the boys are 4 years apart.
We told him I was pregnant on Father's Day in '03. He was beaming!
He then died 2 days later...... horrible horrible year.


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## expatgirl (Jul 7, 2008)

oh, so sorry to hear that, SQ...........I bet he's in heaven just laughing his head off over Lego girl.............and beaming over his 3 grandchildren................


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## foodstorm (Jul 7, 2008)

expatgirl said:


> Anyone have inlaws or outlaws try and guilt you into having kids or ask you when the bundles of joys were coming???? hahaha...


 
Ugh, yes. My late mother was the worst with that, the woman just wouldn't accept "no." MIL was not so militant about it, thank God, and now she's finally accepted it (it helps that my DH's little sister gave her two grandkids). Once, a woman that I didn't know well at all felt the need to remind me that "[my]clock was ticking down, so [I'd] better get busy." I was so po'd I could barely speak. When I finally could manage words, I let her know that her unsolicited advice was merely aggravating to me , since being childfree was a choice for me, but had I been someone who was struggling with infertility, it would have been downright rude and heartbreaking, and that in the future, she might want to think twice before discussing such a personal topic with someone she didn't know well. You should have seen her face!


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 7, 2008)

expatgirl said:


> I meant DH's Father was ready to gift us with the manual..........sorry.....writing too fast



The manual? Would that be the Kama Sutra? Oh wait, can I say that here?


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 7, 2008)

expatgirl said:


> Anyone have inlaws or outlaws try and guilt you into having kids or ask you when the bundles of joys were coming???? hahaha..........



Nope, just the opposite, they could care less and that includes both sets of parents. When our first daughter did come along, my mom did like spending time with her and taking her around family reunions and showing her off. But when my son came along she told me "two is more than I can handle" and she never took the kids again, or came to visit them at all.
Her and dad spent all of their time with my brothers son and dealing with his problems. He never married the girl he had a son with, and later they split and went into a custody battle. He won at first, but then 8 years later she won custody. I think it all started when he was 8 and now he is 16 and they are still battling back and forth in court. When my brother had custody, mom and dad did all the babysitting for him, and dealt with the school. The school and his mom felt he had ADD, my mom and dad disagreed so that all became a long drawn out court battle as well. And they paid for everything my brother couldn't pay for which was a lot. The sad thing is that as soon as the mother won custody back, my brother and mom and dad stopped having anything to do with him at all. No visits, nothing. My brother married a woman with two kids and seems to have disowned his own son now as has mom.
My wifes parents always did the 'had to' thing meaning once or twice a year visiting us (we live 20 miles apart and that was the best they could manage), and when we visited them (every other Sunday) they pretty much couldn't get us out of the house fast enough. When my SIL had a son, they couldn't seem to spend enough time with him. And even though they lived in Indianapolis they visited him at least once a month.
I am glad we don't have contact with them anymore. I would have to say both her parents and mine are prime examples of people who should not have had kids. My parents didn't want em, they did it cause that is what they were 'supposed' to do after getting married. Her parents got married because someone else got her pregnant and she couldn't stand the scandal of being single and pregnant when he ran off.


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## expatgirl (Jul 7, 2008)

Maverick2272 said:


> The manual? Would that be the Kama Sutra? Oh wait, can I say that here?


oh, goodness, there is no way that he would have read that without blushing............no way...........


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## expatgirl (Jul 8, 2008)

Guys, I feel bad about hijacking SQ's thread. or maybe I feel like I have I didn't mean to....and no one has admonished me about this---I promise--- i just feel guilty myself...........i thought I was maybe redirecting things back to the original topic and I don't think it went there so I want SQ to be the one to redirect things back to her thread if she wants to.........so SusieQ it's back in your court.......let us know where you  want to go with this thread...........


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## stinemates (Jul 8, 2008)

Toby
Weight: 8lb 14oz
Height: 20inches
Just a little over 2 weeks old. He's our 2nd.

I'm going to be 23 in 1 month.


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## babetoo (Jul 8, 2008)

he is so beautiful , congrats. to you and your wife.

babe


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## Claire (Jul 8, 2008)

I've been trying to read the entire thread, but have probably missed some.  I'm astonished that I am such a rarity.  My husband and I discussed the subject and decided .... no.  At age 29 I had my tubes tied and have not had one minute of regret.  Now my friends and siblings have kids aged from early teens to 50, and even those with kids as old as me (53) still have not a day of rest from the responsibility.  Drug and booze problems, unemployment, and "accidental" grandchildren who they wind up raising.  I was married for the second time at age 28 and sat new hubby down and told him I'd had it with birth control.  I was actually willing to have children if he wanted them.  As a good Catholic girl I grew up knowing I'd have a few.  But Mom taught me "No Accidents" and applauded my decision when I made it.


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## texasgirl (Jul 8, 2008)

Claire said:


> I've been trying to read the entire thread, but have probably missed some. I'm astonished that I am such a rarity. My husband and I discussed the subject and decided .... no. At age 29 I had my tubes tied and have not had one minute of regret. Now my friends and siblings have kids aged from early teens to 50, and even those with kids as old as me (53) still have not a day of rest from the responsibility. Drug and booze problems, unemployment, and "accidental" grandchildren who they wind up raising. I was married for the second time at age 28 and sat new hubby down and told him I'd had it with birth control. I was actually willing to have children if he wanted them. As a good Catholic girl I grew up knowing I'd have a few. But Mom taught me "No Accidents" and applauded my decision when I made it.


 

Good for you, Claire!! You are not an oddity either. A lot of women feel that way and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. And your right about watching other people go through the bad times. It's horrible on the nerves and health going through it, but, most of the time, the bad gets pushed to the side for the good times. So, don't feel to sorry for us hugs!!


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## expatgirl (Jul 8, 2008)

oh, goodness, stinemates, what a cutey-pie.............


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## lulu (Jul 8, 2008)

expatgirl said:


> Anyone have inlaws or outlaws try and guilt you into having kids or ask you when the bundles of joys were coming???? quote]
> 
> 
> Oh yes, oh yes.
> ...


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## CharlieD (Jul 8, 2008)

I'd post something. but being me, I'd probably ofend somebody, so I better shut up.


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 8, 2008)

As I said before I also chose not to have kids it just wasn't in me. But I have to say not having kids is much, much more acceptable now than thirty years ago. When I was in my teens and 20s and said I was not having kids I would get the weirdest looks from people and a lot of questions it was if they were trying to analyze my mental health or something. People just could not understand the fact I did not want kids. Seemed pretty normal to me. Oh and one of the questions was " who is going to take care of you when you get old?" I said there is no guarantee your kids will take care of you when you get old and it certainly isn't a reason someone should have kids and no I don't like women in that way and yes I do like men It was as if I was some kind of freak or abnormal. Oh and another one was "Do you know that some women can never have kids and really want them and you can so why don't you want them? "


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## expatgirl (Jul 8, 2008)

yep, hear you loud and clearly, jpm.............


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## suziquzie (Jul 8, 2008)

Claire said:


> I've been trying to read the entire thread, but have probably missed some. I'm astonished that I am such a rarity. My husband and I discussed the subject and decided .... no. At age 29 I had my tubes tied and have not had one minute of regret. Now my friends and siblings have kids aged from early teens to 50, and even those with kids as old as me (53) still have not a day of rest from the responsibility. Drug and booze problems, unemployment, and "accidental" grandchildren who they wind up raising. I was married for the second time at age 28 and sat new hubby down and told him I'd had it with birth control. I was actually willing to have children if he wanted them. As a good Catholic girl I grew up knowing I'd have a few. But Mom taught me "No Accidents" and applauded my decision when I made it.


 
LOL Claire you sound like all kids are miserable beings! 
They're not all bad, only mine.


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## TanyaK (Jul 8, 2008)

What I find quite amusing is when people say "but you'll be such a good mother!" I'll then ask them "have you ever seen me ever give any attention to your kids or any kids for that matter?" to which they have to answer no. They sometimes come back with "but you're so good with your dogs" Hellooo ! Dogs, kids - 2 different things !


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## GB (Jul 8, 2008)

TanyaK said:


> Hellooo ! Dogs, kids - 2 different things !


Yeah, dogs are cleaner


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## suzyQ3 (Jul 8, 2008)

Maverick2272 said:


> We actually sat in health class and watched Ronald Regan's son put a condom on a banana. Pretty funny at the time, and I remember just about all of the class goofed off at the time so it was a pretty wasted effort, they assumed they already knew it all.
> 
> Remembering back to when I was a teenager, we had the 'invincible' attitude and just couldn't conceive of it happening to us. We carried our condoms in our wallets and assumed we were safe from anything (relating to pregnancy and STDs). The roll of the eyes was the attitude of the day.
> 
> ...



Maverick2272, nice shorthand for my "or a result of some deception, either explicit or more subconscious?"


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 8, 2008)

TanyaK said:


> What I find quite amusing is when people say "but you'll be such a good mother!" I'll then ask them "have you ever seen me ever give any attention to your kids or any kids for that matter?" to which they have to answer no. They sometimes come back with "but you're so good with your dogs" Hellooo ! Dogs, kids - 2 different things !


This post has been really enlightening for me and I thank all of you for it. I have a number of friends who have no children, some because it just worked out that way and many by choice. A couple of my children have decided not to have children and I think it's a good choice for them.

But I _have_ told a few of my friends that I thought they would have been an excellent parent. I meant this _completely_ as a complimentary observation, not as a suggestion they reconsider. I think they all know I respect their decision in this important matter. But now, I'm wondering if I have ever made them feel like I was judging them or nudging them. I'm going to make sure I apologize to those few people in case I made them feel bad or irritated them. I never really thought until this thread that a remark like that could be taken as a criticism or a pointed remark but I can see how it could. So thanks for opening my eyes to this, ya'll.


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 8, 2008)

jpmcgrew said:


> Oh and one of the questions was " who is going to take care of you when you get old?" I said there is no guarantee your kids will take care of you when you get old and it certainly isn't a reason someone should have kids and no I don't like women in that way and yes I do like men


You are definitely on track here, JP! My naughty son Nick and I were discussing the work and progress we're all making in bringing my mom here to live with me. I was worrying over trying to make things as much like they are at home for her so she won't be unhappy and saying I should have been planning  for this sooner. Nick said it was a good experience for him since he'll be taking care of me one day. I said, "Aww, thank you Sweetie for being willing to take me in if I need it. I'll try hard not to be difficult". There was a long pause and then he said "Well, since you have 7 of us, you should probably check with the other kids first." Of course, I shot back with "What makes you think you were first on my list?"


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 8, 2008)

stinemates said:


> Toby
> Weight: 8lb 14oz
> Height: 20inches
> Just a little over 2 weeks old. He's our 2nd.
> ...


What a beautiful little boy, Stine! I'm so happy for you. I hope he's a very happy child and a good sleeper!


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## TanyaK (Jul 8, 2008)

Fisher's Mom said:


> This post has been really enlightening for me and I thank all of you for it. I have a number of friends who have no children, some because it just worked out that way and many by choice. A couple of my children have decided not to have children and I think it's a good choice for them.
> 
> But I _have_ told a few of my friends that I thought they would have been an excellent parent. I meant this _completely_ as a complimentary observation, not as a suggestion they reconsider. I think they all know I respect their decision in this important matter. But now, I'm wondering if I have ever made them feel like I was judging them or nudging them. I'm going to make sure I apologize to those few people in case I made them feel bad or irritated them. I never really thought until this thread that a remark like that could be taken as a criticism or a pointed remark but I can see how it could. So thanks for opening my eyes to this, ya'll.



I don't think a remark like that will offend or irritate most people - most people will probably take it as the complement it was intended as - I just think it's funny in my case when people say it as I never really show any interest in anyone's kids


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## Bigjim68 (Jul 8, 2008)

Slightly, but only slightly off topic is the other question.  Why aren't you married?  I have been single for 25 out of the past 30 years, and unhappy for 5.  The first couple of times I ignore the question, then, if it persists, I answer that I do not want to have to get a larger house.  I live in 4200 feet on 2 acres.  
Sometimes I think that it simply a case of misery loves company.


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## stinemates (Jul 8, 2008)

Thanks everyone! They sure are a handful, but worth every bit of it!


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## suziquzie (Jul 8, 2008)

Good thing my tubes are tied all the baby talk (and Stine's pic!) are making me want another! 
I better take them all shopping and cure myself.......


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## JillBurgh (Jul 8, 2008)

expatgirl said:


> Anyone have inlaws or outlaws try and guilt you into having kids or ask you when the bundles of joys were coming???? hahaha............



That is my situation. My own parents, if not understanding, are not vocal about my lack of children.  They respecgt my life's choices. I firmly refuse to have kids before I have a husband. And my BF of 6 years is dragging on that. He's 40 and I'm 30 so I don't think it's going to happen this time around for me. That's okay, I don't yearn for kids, but I don't want it to be my one great regret in life (not having them).


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## Saphellae (Jul 8, 2008)

> Anyone have inlaws or outlaws try and guilt you into having kids or ask you when the bundles of joys were coming???? hahaha...


Not guilt or anything, but Nick's Mother talks about marriage and children every time we visit her (about once a month).  And my best friend also says it's just a matter of time.  My own Mother also got a little excited when Nick and I were talking about our plans to move to Kingston and how we were planning for the long term.....

I can't blame Nick's Mother for being that way, seeing as her only daughter likes women and her other older son hasn't had a girlfriend in years and is getting into his high 30's.    She loves kids and is getting the gramma itch.

Nick and I have talked about it and would like children when we are married and financially ready.  Being married means we are absolutely sure we want to spend the rest of our lives together and dedicate our lives to each other and any children.

Nick is just amazing with kids, starting as an elementary teacher in late fall this year.  He wants at least two.  Me, I have never really had the itch before I met him - maybe I just hadn't met the right person. Now, I see children in our future.  I want at least two children.  Growing up as an only child as I did has its advantages, but I missed having a sibling.


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## GrillingFool (Jul 8, 2008)

> Being married means we are absolutely sure we want to spend the rest of our lives together and dedicate our lives to each other and any children.



Tempis Fugit! You will wake up someday and realize the Rest of Your Life has arrived and is passing in a blur. If you're willing to move together to a new city and set up housekeeping... 
well.... um.....time to make that decision!!!! (my opinion only, of course.) 
I wasted 12 years waiting to find out if we were compatible..... Good thing I woke up moved on and found my life mate.


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## B'sgirl (Jul 8, 2008)

Unfortunately the question "why aren't you married?" rings in the ears of the single adults in my "culture" (religion--at least in the local area). My religion teaches that marriage is the most important thing you can do here on earth, but a lot of the adults take it too far. They pester poor single people who sincerely want to get married with that question, when it's simply that they can't find someone they would be happy to settle down with. People think they aren't "trying" hard enough. But hey, if they haven't found someone they aren't compatible with, there isn't much they can do about it. Although I think people are starting to realize that and be more sensitive to them. 

And as far as that question goes pertaining to people who are living together and not married--I guess I'd ask the same question. Why not get married? (Of course, my religion teaches abstinence before marriage so that would be the main reason for that ).

I hope I'm not breaking taboo  here by mentioning religion. I'm not trying to preach, I just couldn't really answer the question without mentioning it a little. No one here is obligated to live my the rules of my religion.


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 8, 2008)

2 of my kids have been living with their SO's for 6+ years - my oldest has been living with her SO for 9 years! They both say that they don't feel a need to get married unless they have children. I suspect that seeing people go through divorces their whole lives (since it is much more commonplace than when I was a kid), it makes young people a little gun-shy. There are probably a lot of different factors. Oddly, it's _my_ kids that don't want to get married - their SOs have both said they would like to get married. I don't really understand it because they both seem to be very much in love and are completely monogamous.


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## Saphellae (Jul 8, 2008)

> Tempis Fugit! You will wake up someday and realize the Rest of Your Life has arrived and is passing in a blur. If you're willing to move together to a new city and set up housekeeping...
> well.... um.....time to make that decision!!!! (my opinion only, of course.)
> I wasted 12 years waiting to find out if we were compatible..... Good thing I woke up moved on and found my life mate.


Grilling, we have only been together for a year, we are both sure we want to be together BUT before we get married we want to be established and comfortable in our new jobs in Ontario.  SO maybe I will have an engagement by New Years! lol

12 years would be wayyyyy too long for me. If 2 years has passed without a ring, I'm asking for one! LOL


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## GrillingFool (Jul 8, 2008)

> If 2 years has passed without a ring, I'm asking for one!


You go, girl!  
No reason the man has to do it.

The one rule for marriage happiness comes from the Wizard of Oz movie... paraphrased..
"If you can't find happiness in your own backyard, you are looking in the wrong place..."
 Took me a while to figure that one out.

OK, back to baaabieeees! Squealing, pooping icky things! EWWW!
(Just kidding!!!)


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## buckytom (Jul 8, 2008)

stiney, your son is beautiful!!!! god bless.


i think that i hold the record for long term engagement. i bought dw the ring in '92, and we didn't get married until '03.  
i guess she just wanted a big chunk of ice on her finger to show my comittment (really, to make her girlfriends jealous), but wasn't interested in getting married until she wanted a baby.

a word of advice for the guys: just make sure to get a tiffany setting and keep it clean, so as to scare off or refractively blind any unwelcome suitors when you're not around. 

oh, the way you stop older relatives from poking you in the ribs at every family wedding exclaiming "you're next", is to do the same to them at family funerals.


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## Saphellae (Jul 8, 2008)

> oh, the way you stop older relatives from poking you in the ribs at every family wedding exclaiming "you're next", is to do the same to them at family funerals.



Oh my GOSH... !!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!


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## Saphellae (Jul 8, 2008)

Well Nick isn't getting any younger (he just turned 30 yesterday) so he told me he wants kids within the next 2-5 years. I told him I won't have kids without a ring on my finger and he agreed. So that kind of puts us on a timeline  lol


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## buckytom (Jul 8, 2008)

umm, it's still 9 months, isn't it? i know you can do things fast, but...

(he hee, just teasing saph. )


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## Saphellae (Jul 8, 2008)

No no, I mean it puts us on a timeline so I know roughly when to expect or ask for a ring :p lol


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 8, 2008)

buckytom said:


> i think that i hold the record for long term engagement. i bought dw the ring in '92, and we didn't get married until '03.


Wow! Well at least you knew your wife had the patience of Job before you married her!

Good advice about the ring - you can never go wrong with Tiffany.

Note to self: Never attend funeral with BT.


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 8, 2008)

Since the subject of sons and potty training was mentioned, I wonder how many here have had the pleasure of getting peed on while changing their sons diaper? Seems like a right of passage almost, LOL.


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## GB (Jul 8, 2008)

I have yet to be peed on by my son. Every single time I change his diaper I thank him for not peeing on me.


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## stinemates (Jul 8, 2008)

Daily. One time he almost got me in the mouth. Tinklecaps do NOT help, either. He has a stream like a stallion and blows it right off..


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## suziquzie (Jul 8, 2008)

LOL!!!!!!!
My first 2 were boys, so by the time I had Christina I was still dodging every time I opened the diaper!!! 
My first had the best one.... he was about 3 weeks old and we were visiting DH's aunt. We had him on a table to change his diaper. 
DH's aunt put her soda can down on the table to get us something..... Jacob starts going, straight up over his head, keeping himself (and his dad) completely dry, and landing a steady stream STRAIGHT into the hole in the soda can!!!! 
THAT is talent!!!! 
Too bad he doesn't still have that sense of aim now at 8 1/2.......


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## Alix (Jul 9, 2008)

What on earth is a tinklecap?


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## suziquzie (Jul 9, 2008)

Oh please dont tell me they now have something they charge $$ for to prevent baby boys from tinkling on you.......


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 9, 2008)

I'm guessing they must... never heard of or seen one before. I was lucky, my son never pee'd on me, got my wife several times though. As soon as he was born a nurse warned me about this, so I always took precautions, LOL.


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## expatgirl (Jul 9, 2008)

Believe me when I was "baptized" by one of my boy babies and had my long hair and newly applied makeup drenched I learned to cover their privates when opening their diapers........I think that it's the expectation that gets them all excited...........so their little hoses were kept covered until I had the new diaper on......got to be pretty adept at it, too....never got drenched again.......


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## TanyaK (Jul 9, 2008)

buckytom said:


> i think that i hold the record for long term engagement. i bought dw the ring in '92, and we didn't get married until '03.
> i/quote]
> 
> Almost beat your record but not quite - got together in 95, engaged in 97 and married in 06.


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## expatgirl (Jul 9, 2008)

Saphellae said:


> Well Nick isn't getting any younger (he just turned 30 yesterday) so he told me he wants kids within the next 2-5 years. I told him I won't have kids without a ring on my finger and he agreed. So that kind of puts us on a timeline  lol



Good for you, Saphie, for holding out!!!!!!  Only when my daughter finally had enough of her old boyfriend who absolutely refused to get help for his depression did he beg her to get married as she had had enough....by then it was too late....for him......she's moved on.....


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## Barbara L (Jul 9, 2008)

Maverick2272 said:


> Since the subject of sons and potty training was mentioned, I wonder how many here have had the pleasure of getting peed on while changing their sons diaper? Seems like a right of passage almost, LOL.


When James's daughter was born she had to stay in the nursery for quite awhile (another baby had meningitis and there was a mess-up and all the babies had to stay for observation, spinal-taps, etc.). James would go in and see her, change her diapers, etc. Well, there was a baby boy near her bassinet. His diapers were always dry, but his mattress pad was always wet. The nurses actually accused James of tampering with his diaper. Then one day they found out what was happening. Apparently this little guy was pretty well endowed, and he was peeing out the top of his diaper, missing it altogether. I can't remember for sure, but I think James said the nurse got a little wet during that episode!

I remember babysitting a one-month-old boy when I was a teenager. Just as I reached behind me for a diaper he started peeing. I grabbed a diaper and just dropped it on top of him until he finished (it was a cloth diaper) and started fresh with a new one.

When my daughter was being potty trained, I was getting her ready for bed one night. She was lying on my bed. I undid her diaper and said, "It's time to go potty." She was so tired that she took me very literally and peed right then and there!

Barbara


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## expatgirl (Jul 9, 2008)

how funny, Barbs..........my mother would turn on the bathroom tap to get one of us tired wee ones to pee  after being woken up.........worked every time........try it.......


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## GB (Jul 9, 2008)

Alix said:


> What on earth is a tinklecap?


It is a little cover that goes over the boy so that if he does go then it is contained somewhat.


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## GotGarlic (Jul 9, 2008)

GB said:


> It is a little cover that goes over the boy so that if he does go then it is contained somewhat.



My MIL, who had three boys, told me once she used a washcloth for that, and it worked fine. Jeeze, the stuff they can get people to buy these days


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## GB (Jul 9, 2008)

I bet a washcloth would work better actually. 

My mother just got used to putting on our diapers while we were on our stomachs. 

Here we call the tinklecap a pee pee teepee.


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## expatgirl (Jul 9, 2008)

when I took off the diapers I just kept them in place over the "firehose" and didn't remove it until the new diaper was on.......worked for me........no tinklecups like computers were available back then. either ......................


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## Alix (Jul 9, 2008)

Thanks GB. And holy cow what will they think of next?! When I first learned how to change a diaper (back in the olden days!!) Mom showed me that you undo the pins, lift the front off to let the cold air hit their junk and quickly put it back down again to catch the resulting pee. Apparently its the temperature change that causes them to go again. Or so I was taught. Never been hit. I have changed a LOT of diapers too. Right from the old cloth ones you had to fold into a triangle, through the ginormous old disposable ones to the new ones that can hold about 6 gallons in each one. You just have to have a method I think.


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## B'sgirl (Jul 9, 2008)

I don't think my son ever peed on me, but he got himself pretty good a few times! I'll never forget the day he peed right into his open mouth and eyes. He wasn't sure weather to cry or not because it scared him, but DH and I were laughing so hard.  He was maybe 3 months old at the time. 

And then my DD, well the first thing she did when she came out was pee all over the doctor. Not what you usually expect coming from a girl.


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## expatgirl (Jul 9, 2008)

My son did the same thing......probably thought it was a warm fountain,,,,,,didn't phaze him at all...........go for the gusto.........


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## Ken (Jul 9, 2008)

I don't think even a tinkle-cap would have worked here.....


YouTube - Huggies Commercial


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## JillBurgh (Jul 9, 2008)

Ok- I just want to interject and say that for those of you wondering how some people can _not_ have kids, the tinkle-in-your-eye talk is NOT helping!!!

Ha ha I know it's just another one of those "joys" we non-moms and non-dads will never understand.  LOL

I may be green with envy, but you're yellow with... well never mind...


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## StellaSquash (Jul 9, 2008)

kids can be pretty gross. mine are 5 and 7 and still gross. lol


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 9, 2008)

My oldest sons are 32 and 27 and they are _still_ gross. (The 34 and 33 year old daughters haven't been gross for many years so I think it has something to do with the "junk", as Alix puts it.)


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## expatgirl (Jul 9, 2008)

hey, those new disposable diapers come in handy let me tell you.......had a tennis game to play and the court had one small puddle of wate after and early morning rain........the roller bar was dead.......I said........Whoa.......let's get one of my  son's pampers out of the car........I want you to know that that diaper soaked up that water in no time...........I was the heroine for the day........we were able to play the match and actually won....double thrill .........


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## buckytom (Jul 9, 2008)

i'm surprised no one used the "head fake" method.

you undo the velcro and pretend to begin to take off the diaper, then quickly hold it back over the area. i never got showered, and somehow knew when my boy was about to send up the geyser as soon as the diaper was released.

this, of course, doesn't work in the bath. a well placed wetted washcloth works there.


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## expatgirl (Jul 9, 2008)

My brother in law at age 51 is still gross......once a gross kid......always a gross kid and he loves warting me, too........all his dogs are gross, too..........but yeah, I'll keep him......


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## expatgirl (Jul 9, 2008)

buckytom said:


> i'm surprised no one used the "head fake" method.
> 
> you undo the velcro and pretend to begin to take off the diaper, then quickly hold it back over the area. i never got showered, and somehow knew when my boy was about to send up the geyser as soon as the diaper was released.
> 
> this, of course, doesn't work in the bath. a well placed wetted washcloth works there.


That always worked for me........they'd get all excited and then I'd put that diaper right over them and they could firehose away............


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## suziquzie (Jul 9, 2008)

buckytom said:


> i'm surprised no one used the "head fake" method.


 
Sure, I'm all done having babies and NOW someone comes up with a name for it!!!


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## SikPilot (Jul 9, 2008)

See pic.....Nuff said


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## stinemates (Jul 9, 2008)

We didn't buy a tinklecap, I just used that word because it was a great play on words. I could be a lot more vulgar, but there's ladies about!


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## lulu (Jul 9, 2008)

expatgirl said:


> hey, those new disposable diapers come in handy let me tell you.......quote]
> 
> They do!  I use them to poultice horses feet when they need it (for any horsey people who don't know,  they are ace at drawing out pus in the foot! and the different sizez mean they come in a foot encompassing size but easily banadagable for ponies or shires!)  We live i a nuts house, I ould use reusuable on a kid for greeness sake, but these for pus in the foot


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## darlenemt08 (Jul 9, 2008)

B'sgirl said:


> Unfortunately the question "why aren't you married?" rings in the ears of the single adults in my "culture" (religion--at least in the local area). My religion teaches that marriage is the most important thing you can do here on earth, but a lot of the adults take it too far. They pester poor single people who sincerely want to get married with that question, when it's simply that they can't find someone they would be happy to settle down with. People think they aren't "trying" hard enough. But hey, if they haven't found someone they aren't compatible with, there isn't much they can do about it. Although I think people are starting to realize that and be more sensitive to them.
> 
> And as far as that question goes pertaining to people who are living together and not married--I guess I'd ask the same question. Why not get married? (Of course, my religion teaches abstinence before marriage so that would be the main reason for that ).
> 
> I hope I'm not breaking taboo here by mentioning religion. I'm not trying to preach, I just couldn't really answer the question without mentioning it a little. No one here is obligated to live my the rules of my religion.


 


My older sister & I get fed up with the questions about why we're not married & having kids.  My sister "came out" about 5 or 6 yrs. ago.  That went over OK with our family a little at that time but since then, part of us can't get together anymore...a mess.  Well anyway, she could do without kids but she'd be willing to be with a partner who's got kids.  I'm willing to marry a guy with kids.  My sister said that she'd put him through the ringer to make sure he was right for me 'cause if he isn't, she'd forbid me to see him again.  LOL  I HIGHLY respect her opinion and take a lot of advice from her.

I can't understand why people INSIST we HAVE to get married and HAVE kids.  Can't they understand that we are happy being single and enjoy having our dogs as "kids"?  Yes, we both want that special somebody in our lives but in the meantime, we can enjoy ourselves.  We both spend time with a few of our nieces & nephews.  That's enough kids for us every once in awhile.  LOL

People think I'm too old-fashioned but I was raised that a person is a virgin until their wedding night.  I can't say that I'll always stay that way 'cause a special guy might come along and then we're in bed.  So, I can't say it 'won't' or 'can't' happen.

I wonder the same question about people who just live together and not get married.  I want a marriage certificate instead of just living together.  I've read about people who can't get married 'cause of their financial situation.  Some people can't get married 'cause they'll lose benefits or whatever.  So, a couple continues to live together.  It's harder on the partner if the other dies and wasn't included in the will by accident.

However way I live my life is between God & me, NOT anybody else.  If I choose marriage &/or kids, that MY business and NOT anybody else's.  I want people to be happy for those of us who aren't married &/or don't have kids.  Just remember that when we're invited, PLEASE allow us to bring a friend/partner 'cause it's not always allowed.  The invites just says our names and does NOT include bringing a friend, whether same sex or not.  That last little bit is a touchy subject in our family...won't say no more on it.

Darlene


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## expatgirl (Jul 9, 2008)

lulu said:


> expatgirl said:
> 
> 
> > hey, those new disposable diapers come in handy let me tell you.......quote]
> ...


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## expatgirl (Jul 9, 2008)

darlenemt08 said:


> My older sister & I get fed up with the questions about why we're not married & having kids.  My sister "came out" about 5 or 6 yrs. ago.  That went over OK with our family a little at that time but since then, part of us can't get together anymore...a mess.  Well anyway, she could do without kids but she'd be willing to be with a partner who's got kids.  I'm willing to marry a guy with kids.  My sister said that she'd put him through the ringer to make sure he was right for me 'cause if he isn't, she'd forbid me to see him again.  LOL  I HIGHLY respect her opinion and take a lot of advice from her.
> 
> I can't understand why people INSIST we HAVE to get married and HAVE kids.  Can't they understand that we are happy being single and enjoy having our dogs as "kids"?  Yes, we both want that special somebody in our lives but in the meantime, we can enjoy ourselves.  We both spend time with a few of our nieces & nephews.  That's enough kids for us every once in awhile.  LOL
> 
> ...



hang in there, Darlene.........sounds like there are a lot of issues going on here......I do care.........ok?...........man, I've been thru fire with my kids.....I know better than anyone to not stand back and judge......learned to go with the flow..........difficult for a control freak but doable.......


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## Barbara L (Jul 9, 2008)

expatgirl said:


> how funny, Barbs..........my mother would turn on the bathroom tap to get one of us tired wee ones to pee after being woken up.........worked every time........try it.......


LOL  I didn't have trouble getting her to pee--she just did it too soon!  I haven't changed her diapers in about 26 years, so she can just pee whenever she wants!



GB said:


> It is a little cover that goes over the boy so that if he does go then it is contained somewhat.


Oh my gosh, this just put a picture in my head of that old Water Wiggle game that they used to sell (Do they still sell it?).  I just found this ad for it: YouTube - 70s Wham-O Water Toys Funny Ads.  

Barbara


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## Bigjim68 (Jul 9, 2008)

darlenemt08 said:


> My older sister & I get fed up with the questions about why we're not married & having kids.  My sister "came out" about 5 or 6 yrs. ago.  That went over OK with our family a little at that time but since then, part of us can't get together anymore...a mess.  Well anyway, she could do without kids but she'd be willing to be with a partner who's got kids.  I'm willing to marry a guy with kids.  My sister said that she'd put him through the ringer to make sure he was right for me 'cause if he isn't, she'd forbid me to see him again.  LOL  I HIGHLY respect her opinion and take a lot of advice from her.
> 
> I can't understand why people INSIST we HAVE to get married and HAVE kids.  Can't they understand that we are happy being single and enjoy having our dogs as "kids"?  Yes, we both want that special somebody in our lives but in the meantime, we can enjoy ourselves.  We both spend time with a few of our nieces & nephews.  That's enough kids for us every once in awhile.  LOL
> 
> ...


Well said.  When people ask me a dumb question, like why am I not married, I give them a dumb answer, like my too small house answer.  Then comes the question, "who is going to take care of you when you get old?)  I don't want to take care of someone else when they get old either.  The simple reason that I am not married is that I do not want to be.  I'm guessing that that is the simple reason that a lot of people do not have kids.


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## Alix (Jul 9, 2008)

The best answer for a question/comment you feel is too personal, or rude or anything of that nature (and we all know how many of those there are) is: "Why would you ask such a personal question?" And make sure you look appropriately horrified that they would DARE to ask/comment the way they did. Then just look pitying and walk away shaking your head gently. Worked beautifully for me when someone asked me when I was planning on having a second baby upon meeting our firstborn at 1 week old. (and after knowing about the 40 hour labour followed by the emergency c section.)
Idiot never asked again.


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## expatgirl (Jul 9, 2008)

SikPilot said:


> See pic.....Nuff said


yep, this has birth control written all over it........how cute........and they're still alive.......even better..........  y'all must have a sense of humor, SikPilot........I wished that I had taken pictures of when my son shook an entire bottle of diaper powder all over his room.........he was white....bed was white.............the whole room was white......all you could see was his round eyeballs......he was so proud.........I could have killed him...........oh, well..........life's little laughter.............


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## expatgirl (Jul 9, 2008)

by the way......he loves hearing stories about his "escapades"...........do keep pictures, diaries, etc...........he just doesn't believe it ...............we do.......we were there........wished that I had taken a picture of the powder room........


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## expatgirl (Jul 9, 2008)

Alix said:


> The best answer for a question/comment you feel is too personal, or rude or anything of that nature (and we all know how many of those there are) is: "Why would you ask such a personal question?" And make sure you look appropriately horrified that they would DARE to ask/comment the way they did. Then just look pitying and walk away shaking your head gently. Worked beautifully for me when someone asked me when I was planning on having a second baby upon meeting our firstborn at 1 week old. (and after knowing about the 40 hour labour followed by the emergency c section.)
> Idiot never asked again.



yep, you're  a graduate of the Ann Lander's school of "why in world would you ask that question"  puts the onus back on them......why would they ask......stupid cows.........ok dummy bovines might sound nicer.......jest kidding........


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## Barbara L (Jul 9, 2008)

The picture of the kids with paint reminds me of something my sister and I did.  If my uncle and aunt hadn't already had two of their three kids, we might have served as birth control for them!  When we were toddlers we got up before our mom one morning.  When she came into the living room we were sitting in the middle of the floor, with every condiment, I think broken eggs, and whatever else we had found in the refrigerator, all dumped out in a big globby pile!  Just as she walked in and saw us, there was a knock at the door.  It was my uncle (her oldest brother) and aunt.  She hadn't seen them in a couple years!  Their showing up when they did probably saved our lives!  LOL  So the first thing they got to do when visiting his little sister was help clean up a huge mess!

Barbara


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## expatgirl (Jul 9, 2008)

you're right.....they saved your butts............better be glad that they showed up when they did.................god's intervention..............hahahaha!


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## suziquzie (Jul 9, 2008)

expatgirl said:


> yep, this has birth control written all over it........how cute........and they're still alive.......even better.......... y'all must have a sense of humor, SikPilot........I wished that I had taken pictures of when my son shook an entire bottle of diaper powder all over his room.........he was white....bed was white.............the whole room was white......all you could see was his round eyeballs......he was so proud.........I could have killed him...........oh, well..........life's little laughter.............


 
My FIL told me a story like that about my husband....
Except it was a brand new kitchen floor.....
And and entire can of Comet cleanser. 
Then the man wonders why his daughter would stick legos in her nose....


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 9, 2008)

I just wanna know what Abby's obsession with washing things is. To date she has washed two laptop computers, two cell phones, seven barbie dolls, 4 Bratz dolls, a couple of dozen hot wheels cars, and a hamster. These are the things I know about, or at least remember... Oh and she washed my charcoal grill.. what a mess that was!
The cars, dolls, and hamster have survived (jury still out on the hamster but she seems to be recovering slowly), the others did not. Well, the dolls mostly survived, their hair was never the same again.
She also microwaved my home cordless phone. Then she went outside and picked all the flowers out of our flower pots to make a bouquet for the dinning room table, had to replant all of the pots. She also played baseball last year with all of our tomatoes, that was neat. Threw them up as high as she could in the air just to watch them come back down and splat all over the patio.
I can't remember anything the other two did that comes close to what she has done so far, by and far the most rambunctious of the bunch!


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 9, 2008)

Mine involved 2 toddlers and a huge tub of margarine.


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## suziquzie (Jul 9, 2008)

How the heck do you even catch them all greased up????


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## Fisher's Mom (Jul 9, 2008)

They couldn't run - they had it on their feet. That's actually how I found them - they were calling Help, help because they couldn't walk without slipping down!


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## expatgirl (Jul 10, 2008)

oh, my these are too funny........and I really need a laugh...............thanks, guys.......


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## expatgirl (Jul 10, 2008)

I remember the time that we thought we were helping my dad out........we threw all his combat boots into the tub to get them clean...........I don't remember doing it but they remembered.......I don't think my dad was that appreciative.............got a thing with tubs........threw a couple of my grandmother's chickens in after my brother's bath........that I do remember.......wet feathers...........and chicken poop everywhere.....my grandma would laugh until she cried telling that whomper on us...........she wasn't laughing when it happened though........nope wasn't a happy granny at all........neither were the chickens.............


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## GrillingFool (Jul 10, 2008)

On a family vacation in the car, we stopped for gas and bathroom breaks. I was about7 or 8.
I got the neatest souvenir coin out of a machine in the bathroom! It was gold! Metal! 
Kind of greasy, but very cool, and only a quarter.
My parents thought it was rather humorous...
As I played with it in the car, it fell apart. Man, was I upset.......

Until I discovered it had a long BALLOON inside! That was greasy too, but who cares?
I blew that thing up and my sister and I played with it for quite a while!

My parents thought that was REALLY funny!
Until it blew out the window.... Dad thought that was funny, but Mom wasn't too happy
about that. Neither was I.

It was a decade before I realized my cool coin and balloon was a condom.


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## GrantsKat (Jul 10, 2008)

omg, thats HILARIOUS


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## expatgirl (Jul 10, 2008)

oh, how funny..........my son and his friends in Cairo would put them on the exhaust pipes of cars.........typical stupid teen


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## babetoo (Jul 10, 2008)

when my daughter was about four years old, she got up very early and made no noise. when i got up she was watching cartoons, eating a chocolate sauce sandwich. she made it herself and when bread was covered poured the rest on the floor. 

we had already decided she was our last. if not this incident would certainly sealed the deal.

babe


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 10, 2008)

expatgirl said:


> oh, how funny..........my son and his friends in Cairo would put them on the exhaust pipes of cars.........typical stupid teen



Beats the banana in the tailpipe stunt!


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