# Toyota Comparison



## LarryWolfe (Mar 2, 2007)

Chuckwagoncook said:
			
		

> Larry Wolfe said:
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I didn't want to hijack Bubbas thread, but I just want to defend CW's post about hooking this and that up! 

Hey CW I specifically said "in it's class".  In otherwords put a comparable Ford/Chevy/Dodge/Nissan toe to toe with the new Tundra and then lets compare.  Click  *Toyota Comparison* it will clear up any misconception of peoples thoughts of whether the new Tundra is a true full size truck or not!  [smilie=a_goodjobson.gif]


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## kickassbbq (Mar 2, 2007)

*WHat?*

You bought a WHAT?????
Smoke On!!!!!


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## kickassbbq (Mar 2, 2007)

*Toyaata*

Maybe they stopped running before they got that far in the testing.
PARTY!!!!!!!!!!
Smoke On!!!!!


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 2, 2007)

Oh my the haters are coming out of the wood work!  I bet neither has ever owned a Toyota to have the opportunity and pleasure to drive such an unreliable vehicle, but they still bash them.  I laugh when I run into a Ford or Chevy owner and they say, nothing will out last a Ford or Chevy, mine has 300K miles on it, and only 150K of that are on the *new* motor!  Toyotas have proven their durability and reliability over the years and non-owners always tend to continue to bash them cause it's a Japanese company.  Regarless, I consider myself fairly a smart man and I work hard for the money I earn and consider a vehicle purchase an investment. So I'm gonna spend my money on something that's gonna last and be reliable on the original motor/trans, as well as provide Americans with jobs!  Don't hate the new Toyota because of it's superior quality, design, engineering and performance over all the other "comparable" trucks!!


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## Diva Q (Mar 2, 2007)

I have driven both Toyotas and Fords. 

My preference is still with Ford. 

My current Ford has 222000 on it and it has the original engine. Other than brakes and regular maintenance nothing else has been done to it. 

I guess I am a Ford lady.

My previous truck was a Red Ford Flare Side Sport with extended cab and i loved it. Ran forever. The only reason I bought another was with 3 kids I needed more room and I didn't want to drive a minivan yet.


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## Bruce B (Mar 2, 2007)

I have to join Larry. not so much in his praise for Toyota, though I've never owned, I would probably praise it if I had.

It's humorous that people will still accuse some of not buying American or insist that "so called" American vehicles (Dodge, Ford, Chevy) are superior to "so called" Japanese vehicles. If that is the case, explain why Ford Motor Co. is in danger of going out of business, why is GM in danger of losing it's perennial place atop of the auto industry (if it hasn't already), why Daimler/Chrysler can't get anyone to buy it's company;  Dodge can't sell it's Dodge Ram trucks and is going to one shift at the Warren Truck Plant, right here where it's assembled (Puff's home town).

It's because they do not build a superior product, this coming from a Dodge Ram owner by the way who just loves that 12mpg city, compared to other companies. Their labor costs are driving them all to extinction and pricing them out of the market.

I've never owned a "foreign" vehicle before, but I will not hesitate to look  at them when it comes time to turn in my Dodge. 

I truly believe that we are witnessing the end of the American Automobile industry. It's not Ford, GM or Daimler/Chrysler that is building new auto plants in this country, witness new Toyota plant in Tupelo, MS.; no it's companies like Toyota, Nissan, Honda...and why, and why are they all building in the South...THERE IS THE KEY TO THE WHOLE PROBLEM and when you answer that question you solve "The Big 3's" problems. 

Just my .02 worth folks.


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## DaleP (Mar 2, 2007)

The commercials that toyota has on tv, was built with the use of ford trucks to haul equipment and materials to the site. That to me is ironic as hell.


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 2, 2007)

Diva Q said:
			
		

> I have driven both Toyotas and Fords.
> 
> My preference is still with Ford.
> 
> ...



Diva let me clarify, I don't mean Fords/Chevys aren't good trucks.  Nor do I mean they won't last several hundred thousand miles if properly taken care of.  I think the overal quality and reliability with a Toyota is unsurpassed buy any car maker.  This is just my opinion.  I have had all Toyota trucks since 1990, all over 150K, without a single repair on them other than routine maintenance.  I never needed to add a drop of oil and they all ran as well as they did the day I bought them.  My brother drives 200+ miles a day round trip to work and has gone through 3 Corrollas and one Tercel all with over 300K miles on them without a single repair other than routine maintenance.


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## 007bond-jb (Mar 2, 2007)

I got a 06 Chevy Vortex Max 4x4 with 4:10 gears & the Vortex Max preformance package, It'll burn the tires till ya let off. 8) My son has a OBDII tuner with definition files on his laptop we reset the top speed govener to the tires speed rating, turned off the traction controll & torque management. We can tweek the fuel & timing curves, shift points & anything else the computer controlls as well.


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## kickassbbq (Mar 2, 2007)

*WTF?*

Maybe the reason our motor companies are in trouble is because people buy foreign products instead.
Go Figure!!!!!

Buy American and keep our money here.  What's left of it.

Nobody should complain about *jobs and money *going overseas if we got that stuff in our driveway.

Good vehicles, you bet they are.  But, they ain't Americana, even if they shipped the parts over here and we assembled them.
PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!
Smoke On!!!!


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## DATsBBQ (Mar 2, 2007)

I'm on the Toyota bandwagon. Have a 4-runner. Had one problem early on. The drivers side mirror cracked. Full replacement, no charge even though it was technically glass. Wife had a Celica GTS new off the showroom. Sold it ten years later and only had to put tires, oil, and a battery into it over the years. Think she put close to 170K on it when we finally sold it (not a good car for the snow), but any rear wheel drive hot rod has that problem.


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 2, 2007)

*Re: WTF?*



			
				kickassbbq said:
			
		

> Maybe the reason our motor companies are in trouble is because people buy foreign products instead.
> Go Figure!!!!!
> 
> Buy American and keep our money here.  What's left of it.
> ...



Ed, Ed, Ed.  Most of the so called "Foreign" vehicles you're referring to provide thousands of jobs to Americans HERE in the US to be assembled and maintained.  Most of the so called "American" vehicles you're referring to provide thousands of jobs to Mexicans in MEXICO and Canandians in Canada.  Think about the Blue Collar guy working in a plant here in the US building Toyotas the next time you buy an "American" car.


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## Cliff H. (Mar 2, 2007)

Larry,

I got your back.  

I purchased this diamond in the rough over five years ago.  It's a 1982 model ( The year I graduated from High School ) and it had 52k miles on it. I gave $1,500 for it and it had brand new tires.

I bought from an old man who was the second owner. He had it for about 12 years and he put 13k miles on it according to the title.  Today it has 78k miles on it.

The truck came from California,  I am assuming that is were the bullet hole in the passanger door came from.








I have replaced a lot of parts that had gaskets or other rubber components simply because they were wore out.  Once I replace the starter I should be good to go for another 300k miles, give or take 50k. 8)


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 2, 2007)

Cliff H. said:
			
		

> Larry,
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> I got your back.
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Cliff that is a classic and I'd love to have one of the OLD Toyotas like that one.  If that truck has the old 22R or 22RE motor in it, you can't kill it and it wll indeed last forever!!!  That bullet hole adds character as well!!


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## Cliff H. (Mar 2, 2007)

Its the 22r and the bullet hole has been a great conversation piece.  

I know of people who have purchased bullet hole stickers to put on their vehicles.


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 2, 2007)

Cliff H. said:
			
		

> Its the *22r *and the bullet hole has been a great conversation piece.
> 
> I know of people who have purchased bullet hole stickers to put on their vehicles.



Then it's gonna last and last and last!!


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## kickassbbq (Mar 2, 2007)

*Glad*

I am SO glad that we DO assemble those cars. * I worked in a factory ALL MY LIFE on assembly lines.*
I am just talking about* ALL of the money made from them goes overseas.*
That's the problem.  I do not complain about it.  

I buy American because those boys and girls are on assembly lines, too.

Smoke On!!!!!


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## Finney (Mar 2, 2007)

Ed you're a little of the mark with your remark.

The big 3, (Toyota, Honda, Nissan) all have plants or vendors here in the US to manufacture major components and small parts for their vehicles.
They are the reason that many US manufactures of automotive parts are still in business.
Many of the foreign auto makers require that their vendors locate within so many miles of their plant so that parts will not be delayed by shipping.  That boosts the area economy even further in the areas that the manufacturers locate.

US automakers put themselves where they are today.  Poor quality, and internal looting by company execs has been the down fall of a once great industry. 

Finney (Automotive Designer)

Support a Southerner......... Buy Toyota (or Nissan, or BMW, or Mercedes, etc)


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 2, 2007)

*Re: Glad*



			
				kickassbbq said:
			
		

> I am SO glad that we DO assemble those cars. * I worked in a factory ALL MY LIFE on assembly lines.*
> I am just talking about* ALL of the money made from them goes overseas.*
> That's the problem.  I do not complain about it.
> 
> ...



Ed you're baffling me buddy??  How does ALL of the money go over seas if the Americans assembling them and running the assembly plants are making a living in AMERICA for producing the vehicles?  Sure a huge profit goes to the Japanese, but you are also supporting your fellow Blue Collar American by buying the vehicles, thus giving them a job to produce more.  Unlike the labor funds involved in most of the so called "American" cars that are being assembled in other countries.  Too bad those "American" auto manufactuers *CHOOSE* to have their product made in another country to save money, rather than building the so called American vehicle in America to support it's own Americans.  There's more hard earned American sweat on my Toyota than there is on your Ford or Chevy and more of my money into Americans pockets!


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## kickassbbq (Mar 2, 2007)

*OK*

You guys are right.  I just buy American when I can.
Have a GREAT weekend.
Smoke On!!!!!


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 2, 2007)

*Re: OK*



			
				kickassbbq said:
			
		

> You guys are right.  I just buy American when I can.
> Have a GREAT weekend.
> Smoke On!!!!!



Ed I'm not giving you a hard time, please don't think I am.  But what exactly do you consider American?


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## kickassbbq (Mar 2, 2007)

*American*

Ya ready?  Walmart!!!!  Everything they sell is made in China.
Hell, we can't buy anything made in this country anymore, except Beef and Pork. (Thank God)
*Only reason I bought a Ford is because my Brother gets me a heck of a discount.  It really is no better vehicle than any of the others.*If I have to start buying my BB Ribs from Mexico, I will really be pissed then.

Until then, at least I got ya going.  

I am going out and snow blow 17" so I can get to my smoker (made in Georgia)

Have a GREAT weekend.
Smoke On!!!!!!


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## CarolinaQue (Mar 2, 2007)

In regards to "American" vehicles and parts....

Next time you get the chance, check to see where the parts on that "American" vehicle were made?

Tim


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## DATsBBQ (Mar 2, 2007)

*Re: Glad*



			
				kickassbbq said:
			
		

> I am SO glad that we DO assemble those cars.  I worked in a factory ALL MY LIFE on assembly lines.
> I am just talking about* ALL of the money made from them goes overseas.*
> That's the problem.  I do not complain about it.
> 
> ...



So what?  :scratch  In the end the only place they can spend a US Dollar is in the US. In the end, it comes back.


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## DaleP (Mar 2, 2007)

I guess I'm lucky. I have 4 Ford vehicles and have never had any problems. Well I shouldnt have said that. Now the frickin wheels will probably fall off.

Larry, do you use a hibachi too?


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 2, 2007)

wboggs said:
			
		

> Larry Wolfe said:
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I stand corrected and apologize!


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 2, 2007)

DaleP said:
			
		

> I guess I'm lucky. I have 4 Ford vehicles and have never had any problems. Well I shouldnt have said that. Now the frickin wheels will probably fall off.
> 
> *Larry, do you use a hibachi too*?



I'm almost afraid to answer!  LOL  No I don't own a hibachi.


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## Captain Morgan (Mar 2, 2007)

I will say this...I know that foreign companies make cars here, and domestic companies make cars abroad.  I know where the profits are going.

 But as a capitalist in a free market society, I've only got enough economic power to buy the vehicle that gives me the most bang for my buck.  If I could afford it, I'd buy an American made vehicle, but I drive
a Toyota truck because I think it will last the longest.

That said, in December, I spent about 1300 bucks on maintenance
and new belts and parts, and a week later, the check engine light
came on.  Guess I'm unlucky.  Still, I had a Ford Explorer that
dropped second gear less than a thousand miles after the warranty
expired, and that was a 2k repair.


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## kickassbbq (Mar 2, 2007)

*OK*

*OK, thanks guys!!!  *

I have a *BRAND NEW *Ford (Bad Arse 4x4) truck.  I just went out to the garage and it will not start!!!

As a matter of fact, I looked under it and the oil has all run out on the garage floor.

One of the tires is flat and I think it has a shock hanging down from underneath the bed.

Wish I had bought a Montoyobishumercad.
Smoke On!!!!!!


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## Captain Morgan (Mar 2, 2007)

Are you serious?


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 2, 2007)

The whole point of this thread was to just show the comparison of the new Full Size Tundra to show Chuckwagon it's  indeed a full size fully capable work truck. 

Ed are you serious about your truck??


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## DaleP (Mar 2, 2007)

That reminds me of Christmas Vacation.
 "you serious Clark?"


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## Smokey_Joe (Mar 2, 2007)

The only gripes I can think of with about foreign cars and trucks is interior space for tall people......but in the last 5-8 years all the manufacturers are quickly changing to accomodate the size of Americans.

I did watch a show one time on the Discovery channel about the designing of vehicles...........

Car makers pay a company a said amount of money to "design" a vehicle...

They then take that design and send it out to another company and pay that firm 4-5 times the "design amount" paid ...to have each and every part designed to wear out or break in a specified amount of time, use or mileage.

It's said that the original sale price of a vehicle is NOT where manufacturers make a big profit........the big profits come from repairs and replacement parts.


I'm not sure of all companies... but Ford and Mazdas get made on the same assembly line... and a vast majority of Dodge trucks are manufactured in Mexico.

I don't really care what brand I drive...just so long as it remains dependable.


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## kickassbbq (Mar 2, 2007)

*Larry*

I am *not serious*.  Just being stupid like always.

I think anybody that makes a truck today probably has a pretty good vehicle.  

I remember I had a little Chevy S10 and it was the WORST vehicle I ever had.  Engine quit running at about 50,000.
I loved that truck, but it was JUNK.

I put about 3,000 miles a year on my trucks.  They don't have a chance to fail or break.  I trade them every 2 1/2 years and I do not drive them in the rain or snow.  Only have to wash them 2 or 3 times then trade off.

*That, I am serious about.  *
Wife asks, "Why do you even have that truck and bike? * So I can dust them off on weekends. * They sure are Purdy all Black and everything shining!!!!!
My Harley is a 2001 and it has 8,000 miles.

I don't get out much, boys.

Smoke On!!!!!


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## Captain Morgan (Mar 2, 2007)

ROFL!  I bought a new Chevy S10 about 20 years ago, kept it till it had
42k on it, it was the best running vehicle i ever had!

That said, it's apparent that if you can afford to buy new, do it, and get
rid of it at 40k.


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## jminion1 (Mar 2, 2007)

I have Toyota and Dodge in the line up we sale. I'm the Fleet sales manager for a mega dealer. The comparisons are interesting and misleading in some ways. 
As an example Toyota states that Dodge doesn't have traction control but dosen't mention that it has ESP or Electronic Stablization Program that use traction control, ABS and sensors for the state of the art control. All vehicles have to be equipped with ESP by 2010.

There are are examples of this kind of stuff from every manufacture.

The biggest problem I have with Toyota is the DOHC, that works well for cars but under a load OHV is a better system.

Jim


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## Captain Morgan (Mar 2, 2007)

So the english translation of that is, bbq started in North Carolina?


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## chris1237 (Mar 2, 2007)

I like the Toyotas myself. My dad has a 06 tacoma and it is sweet. I dont beleive that BS that fords are american and toyotas are not. I dont drive yet but I have been saving my money for an older modle toyota pickup.

Chris


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## Bobberqer (Mar 3, 2007)

Interesting thread going here..some very valid and viable  points being made on both sides... Having been involved in internationl trade, for many, many, years, and  for a period of time, specifically between the US and Japan , I know there are business pratices endeavored by  both sides in getting "one up " on each other, it's about being in business to make money, not making friends......... Japan, despite what you read in the everyday press, is extrememly protectionist....Since they are an Allie, and a strong one at that, not much dirty laundry is aired publicly, for the masses, about broken trade agreements, currency manipulation, innacurate reporting of documentation, benign embargos, and the like  ... cars and argriculture are the industries that are glaringly obvious......  Just ask Detroit,  Texas Cattelmans Association, or, for that matter,  the Hinodie Rice Combine in California....without going into global geopolitical agendas, and past deeds  suffice it to say that each side has it's " talking points" in the proganda wars....Japan is winning the propaganda  wars , as we speak... just a little statistic for ya.. Toyota cars sales in the US last year .... almost 50% of the cars sold here last year were imported..... from Japan... put on a level playing field, open trade borders, Japan would suffer greatly.. they know it, the US knows it, the world knows it .. and Japan plays that card from the deck every time.. Do they build good cars.. sure they do...but, for every 200,000 miles Japanese car story that is tossed around, the is an equivelant, US manufactured car story...


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## Greg Rempe (Mar 3, 2007)

Let's use the vehicle maker or use "import"...use of the word "Japs" can be taken the worng way.


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## Greg Rempe (Mar 3, 2007)

Then use the country name to make your point...as in Japanese or Japan.  Not "JAPS". :roll:


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## kickassbbq (Mar 3, 2007)

*Spelling?*

You are right Greg.  Please do not use terms that may offend anyone.

But I do like it when someone calls me a 
*White Trash Hillbilly Cracker Head Honkey.*
That's what I am.

Have a Great weekend!!!!!

Smoke On!!!!!!!


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## Uncle Al (Mar 3, 2007)

My wife drives a 92 Camry with 235,000 miles. She asked me when we were going to get her a new car because she has had the Toyota for so long. I told her as soon as it breaks down and can't  be repaired for under a thousand dollars. She said "Great I'm never gettin' a new car!!"

Al

P.S a toyota spelled backwards is a toyota


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## Bobberqer (Mar 3, 2007)

wboggs said:
			
		

> Bobberqer said:
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My last 2 cars Jeep, Mercury Sable,  both had over 250,000 miles on em before being totaled in cars wrecks, ( not my fault) present car, 96 Ford Windstar,  215,00 miles...  just to make a point.. most people do not keep their cars like I do, they toss em for better deals,  ego's, getting into a better lease, or what ever.. do you know that many many high mileage cars are sold into Mexico, and other countries around the world???  Do I also think that at the present time that Japan has the  upmanship on quality, sure I do...... If our car makers had all the government subsidies as the their Japnese counterparts, they might be able to do the same, and be able to spend more money on R&D.......Don't you think that if an American Company were to build a brand spanking new factory in Japan, ( never happen btw) it would be a state of the art facility, as the Japanese  now ,have here, and boast about, and use in their Advertising campaigns..???  we could sit here all day , and myopicly trade bad car stories back and forth....it happens.... 2-3,000lb  chuck of steel hurling down the road at 60 miles an hour, something is going to give, somewhere, somehow, sometime... just keep in mind that there just might be cutural,  political, and economic reasons   for their supposed lead  in the car industry at the present time.... this going back and forth about who has better cars has been going on  for over 30 years that I know of...

and the Chrysler, built in Rust box in the fender, story... got me shaking my head with that one


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 3, 2007)

Bobberqer said:
			
		

> My last 2 cars Jeep, Mercury Sable,  both had over 250,000 miles on em before being totaled in cars wrecks, ( not my fault) present car, 96 Ford Windstar,  215,00 miles...  just to make a point..



Bob I'm not discounting at all what you're saying about the high miles on your cars.  You may or may not have had to put much if any money into repairs to them to keep them running that long.  I don't know.  But I do know for a fact that the majority of the "Big Three" automakers products will need substantial repairs or motor/trans rebuilds or replacements in order to make it that far.  Any car will last for as many miles as you want, as you can afford to continue to pay for in repairs.  Again, maybe your vehicles were the exception and you maintained them properly!


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## CarolinaQue (Mar 3, 2007)

I will say that I currently drive a '91 Toyota Pick-up (217,000 miles). It just had it's first major repair's done to it. New Head cast, valve job, and a new timing system (gears, chain, guides, tensioner). 

I love the truck, but in all honesty, it can't handle the pull load that I need it to because of it's age. The guy that had it before me didn't take care of it like it should have been.

I started looking at new one's, But I'll be damned if I can afford $28,000 for a new, "mid-sized" Tacoma. Much less the $36,000 to $40,000 for a new "full-sized" Tundra.

Why buy new you ask? Because I want to know that I was the one that put every mile on that vehicle and know that all the routine maintenance was done on time and with the right stuff. Not just with what "works".

Turns out that my neighbor's good friend works at the Ford dealership.
He has a new, fully loaded F-150 XLT with the Towing Package that he'll sell me for $19,000.

Hmmm, wonder which way I'm leaning?

Don't get me wrong, I love Toyota trucks, but the price of one is out of my range and I feel that Ford does make a very solid full sized truck. Sometimes you just have to go where the deal's are.

Car's, on the other hand are a totally different story. I think that our foreign counter parts have that market locked as far as quality.

Tim


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## kickassbbq (Mar 3, 2007)

*Foreign Is Better?*

You guys are ALL right.  Foreign cars are better though.
Remember the Yugo?
PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!
Smoke On!!


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 3, 2007)

CarolinaQue said:
			
		

> I will say that I currently drive a '91 Toyota Pick-up (217,000 miles). It just had it's first major repair's done to it. New Head cast, valve job, and a new timing system (gears, chain, guides, tensioner).
> 
> I love the truck, but in all honesty, it can't handle the pull load that I need it to because of it's age. The guy that had it before me didn't take care of it like it should have been.
> 
> ...



Tim you've got a good point and I feel the same way!  And only bought new until recently.  I bought my wife a "Toyota Certified" used 2002 Sienna 5 years ago.  At the time it had 28k (comes with 100k mile warranty) on it and now has over 100k and (knock on wood) we have only done routine maintenance to it (BG Coolant, Trans, PS flushes, oil changes and brake pads).  When we bought the van it was less than 1 year old and saved over $8k from what a new one cost and in reality we got a "new" van.  We did the same on a Corrolla for my daughters first car, again we saved a ton o f money and got a very good car.  I guess my point is, you may want to see if your Toyota Dealer sells Certified Vehicles and test them out before jumping ship!   

Not sure what you need to tow, but I have an 2005 Tacoma that is a beast and will tow up to 6500lb, not bad for a mid sized truck and is HUGE inside and out compared to the old Tacomas and older Toyota PU's.


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 3, 2007)

Unfortunately I think this post is taking a wrong turn by some of the comments I'm seeing.  Let's not get this thread locked.  Voice your opinion, but don't live in the past.


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## Kloset BBQR (Mar 3, 2007)

Larry Wolfe said:
			
		

> Unfortunately I think this post is taking a wrong turn by some of the comments I'm seeing.  Let's not get this thread locked.  Voice your opinion, but don't live in the past.



And never, ever forget the past either.

Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it!


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 3, 2007)

Kloset BBQR said:
			
		

> [quote="Larry Wolfe":37xqxi24]Unfortunately I think this post is taking a wrong turn by some of the comments I'm seeing.  Let's not get this thread locked.  Voice your opinion, but don't live in the past.



*And never, ever forget the past either.

Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it*![/quote:37xqxi24]

I agree wholeheartedly Dallas, but don't feel it has a place in this discussion about the "Quality of Vehicles" cause it's gonna take a wrong turn and you and I both know it.


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## Kloset BBQR (Mar 3, 2007)

Just replying to a comment made on this thread Larry!  I agree though!

Just for the record we own a Toyota Avalon, a Toyota Sienna, Chevy Silverado 2500, and a Pontiac Solstice, all made in America.

Never had a problem with any of them!


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## Bobberqer (Mar 3, 2007)

1960's..???? Japanese import car failed miserbly in the United States.. Mazda in particular had to retreat back to Japan to lick their wounds with the bucket o bolts they tried to put on the market here...... Datsuns., Nissan, they all were pieces of crap...  forget about making it to the end of payments, you'be  lucky to get to the end of your block with them .. As they have improved, so have the American Manufacturers...Competition makes better products,,, So, if you're accusing Chrysler in particular in trying to "force" cars down the buying public's throat, it stands to reason that you could agree to those mentioned Japanese car companies tried to "force" bad cars down the throats of the buying public... 

I for one am glad to see that a thread has lasted this long and no one is getting upset or wildy pissed off...  I know I'm not...  good dialogue and good group here, thanks


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## Bobberqer (Mar 3, 2007)

if 53 is young , then I'm happy for you to say so... as my daughter calls me an old fart... 

Mazda did not even start making cars until 1960.... they started out as a cork factory. they did not come back into the US market until the 70's, same time Honda did..

Toyota and  Nissan did so bad in the early 60's they actually retreanched back to Japan and thought of not entering the US car market again for at least 10 years 

Izuzu came here mid 60's and flopped.. can't be any more polite than that  

Subaru didn't get here until 1969

Mitsubishi didnt enter the US car market until  1971..and they built the Dodge Colt.. which I believe was , by that time, owned by Chrysler..

and the waiting lines ??? must of been very few of them, since imports of Japanese cars in the 60's were typically less than a 1,000 a year for each of em...

and back then, Japanese made,,more times than not, meant Cheap Imitation...

And when they did resurface, they all got accused of "dumping"..  a term that means selling their cars for less than what they are actually made for... But they would never do that, would they ?..  

That's all I have to say on the subject of " Whose Car is better".... 

Enjoy all your Wheels!!!!  Happy Smoking !!!!

I'm going to start  the smoker to do a rolled pork loin  yum, yum good


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 3, 2007)

Chuckwagoncook said:
			
		

> Larry Wolfe said:
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> 
> ...



Larry,  Like I said I aint bustin on your toyotas,  I was merely making a statement that toyota doesnt make a truck (YET)  that can compare with the Big 3 and there diesel powerplants.  I placed a few (    ) to let you know I was joking.  If and when these so called "imports" decide to enter into the 1 ton truck class the big 3 might need to worry.  So until they do I have to choose from the Big 3, and I know my choice, and thats an easy one for me.

Heck I heard the other day, its estimated that within the next 3 years Toyota may over take GM as the largest manufacture in the USA.  You wanna see two totally different work ethics, take a look at how a Honda plant and a GM plant compare in production and work ethic.  Night and Day difference.  I can completely understand why Delphi is in financial trouble.  

Toyota, Honda and Nissan all make fine vehicles.  I would be lying if I told you they didnt.  Only problem I have seen with Toyota in my expierence is availibility of parts, I dont mean regular maintance parts, big parts like engine blocks, you now things you need when the rod decides to come out the side of the block on your buddies 4-runner.  We could not get a block thru Toyota, had to get a used one out of the yard, and thats tuff when everyone wants them, cause they cant get one either.[/quote:35fke5lg]


CW I know you were busting my b*lls, I was busting back!  Look out in the next couple years though, I'm sure Toyota will come out with a one ton!!


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## Smokey_Joe (Mar 3, 2007)

Bobberqer said:
			
		

> if 53 is young , then I'm happy for you to say so... as my daughter calls me an old fart...
> 
> Mazda did not even start making cars until 1960.... they started out as a cork factory. they did not come back into the US market until the 70's, same time Honda did..
> 
> ...



 [smilie=a_bravo.gif]  [smilie=a_bravo.gif]  [smilie=a_bravo.gif]  

[smilie=a_bravo.gif]  [smilie=a_bravo.gif]  [smilie=a_bravo.gif]  

 [smilie=a_bravo.gif] [smilie=a_bravo.gif]  [smilie=a_bravo.gif] 

 [smilie=a_goodjob.gif]   

VERY WELL said...and Very correct with your information!!!!!!


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## Bobberqer (Mar 3, 2007)

Not a Union worker... never have been ... have been involved with international trade for most of my adult life... and to this day, I still know people who continue to do it... so much of my info is current, and up to date....and for your info  I worked for a Japanese company for 7 years...So I do know "from whenst they come".. as the saying goes.. Japan is one of the most controlled societies, out side of Signapore nad Mainland China that their is in this world...............and this comment >>People have believed things much farther from the truth.<<< not sure where you're coming from with that, or where you like it to go, but I aint taking the bait.... nuff said... check out my facts,, they are real, true, and documented.. I take it you have something to do with the Japaneses car business...  if you do, then you know the Japanese cartel system "keiretsu" that allows Japaneses to sell products for less than they sell them in their own country with support from their other members; partners in crime , to the real world.....oh, but then I would be a racist  by sayinfg that...( favorite cry from any Japanesses who hears that from a round eye)..  I guess Keiretsus are  ok if you are on the recieving end of the profits...


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## Captain Morgan (Mar 3, 2007)

Easy boys....the old sheriff is still in town, but he's wantin' to keep things peaceable


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## DaleP (Mar 3, 2007)

My truck is a Ford. My fantasy is 3 Japanese hot women serving me butts and brisket. yep, just got home been drinking beer all day and of all things, Jim Beam. Rough. 8 Foot tall and bullet proof! Bring it!And I can type. Amazing!


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## Captain Morgan (Mar 3, 2007)

ok, some posts have been deleted here by me.
Once again, keep it respectable, cause this here
is gonna be a respectable town, says me.

don't make me take the bullet out of my pocket and
load up ol' Rosco.


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## Helen_Paradise (Mar 3, 2007)

Larry!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG...WTF...BBQ!!! *happy dance*

http://paultan.org/archives/2006/01/11/ ... hardiness/


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 4, 2007)

Helen_Paradise said:
			
		

> Larry!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG...WTF...BBQ!!! *happy dance*
> 
> http://paultan.org/archives/2006/01/11/ ... hardiness/



What an awesome display of durability!!!!


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## DaleP (Mar 4, 2007)

Just got up. 3 foot tall and mushy.


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## Cliff H. (Mar 4, 2007)

DaleP said:
			
		

> Just got up. 3 foot tall and mushy.



How about a big glass of Hair..................................of the dog.


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 5, 2007)

probbq said:
			
		

>



Ahhhhh I'm in heaven!!  That's an old Landcruiser correct??


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 5, 2007)

probbq said:
			
		

> That's correct Larry FJ40 , re-built it from scratch, when I lived in Zimbabwe.
> 
> Let me tell you, it goes where others fear to go!



Beautiful, simply beautiful!!!  The Cruisers are indeed beasts off road and will go anywhere!  Have you seen the new FJ Cruisers?  They look nice, but I'm sure they're not as capable as the old ones!


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## Helen_Paradise (Mar 5, 2007)

Larry Wolfe said:
			
		

> probbq said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LAND ROVER Discovery....*extra happy dance*


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 5, 2007)

probbq said:
			
		

> Oi! no swearing here please!
> 
> I must say those Landrover things do tow well....
> 
> ...



 :damnfunny  :damnfunny  :damnfunny  :damnfunny  :damnfunny


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## DATsBBQ (Mar 5, 2007)

Helen_Paradise said:
			
		

> [quote="Larry Wolfe":xavzp73i]
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*LAND ROVER Discovery....*extra happy dance**[/quote:xavzp73i]

I had a Discovery II. Averaged 1.5 shop days per month. They did provide a free loaner (usually a Freelander), but it was a pain to drive 40 miles to the dealership twice a month. Now got a 4-runner. No shops days in 2 years.


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## Finney (Mar 5, 2007)

If anyone has the latest Bass Pro Shops ad, give it a look.  There is a page in it that tells most of the places in the US where parts were either designed, tested or *Made in the USA* for the Toyota full sized PU.


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## john pen (Mar 5, 2007)

Well, its been 7 pages, guess Ill throw my 2 cents in...

Im a staunch ford man...My daily driver is a '91 full size Bronco..the wife drives a 2002 Windstar...My '74 F-250 always starts and is ready to head anywhere to pick up a load of wood...and Im building a '78 bronco into a off road buggy (and there's been umpteen fords come and gone through here). My Dad had a mid 80's full size Bronco he bought new and put over 250,000 miles on the original motor when he traded it in (he changed the oil religiously every 3000 miles). That being said, I bought my daughter a late 80's toyota that had an awful knock in the motor (22re if I recall) ..we had every intention of tearing it down and rebuilding it..she never got the hang of the stick, so I took it off her hands..drove it for over two year with the knock including several 1000 mile trips into canada towing my boat and never had an issue with it till the day it met Mr. Tree. As much of a Ford man that I am, Id never hesitate to by a Toyota again. It was easy to work on and gave us many years of service...


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 5, 2007)

john pen said:
			
		

> Well, its been 7 pages, guess Ill throw my 2 cents in...
> 
> Im a staunch ford man...My daily driver is a '91 full size Bronco..the wife drives a 2002 Windstar...My '74 F-250 always starts and is ready to head anywhere to pick up a load of wood...and Im building a '78 bronco into a off road buggy (and there's been umpteen fords come and gone through here). My Dad had a mid 80's full size Bronco he bought new and put over 250,000 miles on the original motor when he traded it in (he changed the oil religiously every 3000 miles). That being said, I bought my daughter a late 80's toyota that had an awful knock in the motor (22re if I recall) ..we had every intention of tearing it down and rebuilding it..she never got the hang of the stick, so I took it off her hands..drove it for over two year with the knock including several 1000 mile trips into canada towing my boat and never had an issue with it till the day it met Mr. Tree. As much of a Ford man that I am, Id never hesitate to by a Toyota again. It was easy to work on and gave us many years of service...



Good post John!  I'll tell you the 22R's gotta be one of the most indestructable motors ever built!


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## Smokey_Joe (Mar 5, 2007)

Larry Wolfe said:
			
		

> [quote="john pen":2v7j62ex]Well, its been 7 pages, guess Ill throw my 2 cents in...
> 
> Im a staunch ford man...My daily driver is a '91 full size Bronco..the wife drives a 2002 Windstar...My '74 F-250 always starts and is ready to head anywhere to pick up a load of wood...and Im building a '78 bronco into a off road buggy (and there's been umpteen fords come and gone through here). My Dad had a mid 80's full size Bronco he bought new and put over 250,000 miles on the original motor when he traded it in (he changed the oil religiously every 3000 miles). That being said, I bought my daughter a late 80's toyota that had an awful knock in the motor (22re if I recall) ..we had every intention of tearing it down and rebuilding it..she never got the hang of the stick, so I took it off her hands..drove it for over two year with the knock including several 1000 mile trips into canada towing my boat and never had an issue with it till the day it met Mr. Tree. As much of a Ford man that I am, Id never hesitate to by a Toyota again. It was easy to work on and gave us many years of service...



Good post John!  I'll tell you the 22R's gotta be one of the most indestructable motors ever built![/quote:2v7j62ex]

I always thought the same thing till I bought one for my daughter in an older Carolla ......she musta got a bad one..............LOL


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 5, 2007)

Smokey_Joe said:
			
		

> [quote="Larry Wolfe":2q26dvg0][quote="john pen":2q26dvg0]Well, its been 7 pages, guess Ill throw my 2 cents in...
> 
> Im a staunch ford man...My daily driver is a '91 full size Bronco..the wife drives a 2002 Windstar...My '74 F-250 always starts and is ready to head anywhere to pick up a load of wood...and Im building a '78 bronco into a off road buggy (and there's been umpteen fords come and gone through here). My Dad had a mid 80's full size Bronco he bought new and put over 250,000 miles on the original motor when he traded it in (he changed the oil religiously every 3000 miles). That being said, I bought my daughter a late 80's toyota that had an awful knock in the motor (22re if I recall) ..we had every intention of tearing it down and rebuilding it..she never got the hang of the stick, so I took it off her hands..drove it for over two year with the knock including several 1000 mile trips into canada towing my boat and never had an issue with it till the day it met Mr. Tree. As much of a Ford man that I am, Id never hesitate to by a Toyota again. It was easy to work on and gave us many years of service...



Good post John!  I'll tell you the 22R's gotta be one of the most indestructable motors ever built![/quote:2q26dvg0]

I always thought the same thing till I bought one for my daughter in an older Carolla ......she musta got a bad one..............LOL [/quote:2q26dvg0]

You should have know Chevy made the C*a*rolla, Toyota made the C*o*rolla!  That's why it was no good!!


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## Smokey_Joe (Mar 5, 2007)

[smilie=a_doh.gif] Damn them grammatical errors......good thing you're on the ball Larry...... 

I sit corrected....it was a Corolla [smilie=lol_xtreme.gif]

an 80 hatchback with a 5-speed to be exact....

just for fun:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Corolla


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## Smokey_Joe (Mar 6, 2007)

<yawn> [smilie=yawn2.gif]




Went and test drove a Yota today just for the heck of it.... nice truck.... quite powerful...surprising even!  But not the room inside of my F-250...I know it's a bit different class truck.... but I guess the interior space is what drew me to the Ford in the first place.

If the Toyota stretches it's inside a bit, I could see possibly buying one.


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 7, 2007)

Smokey_Joe said:
			
		

> <yawn> [smilie=yawn2.gif]
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey Joe which one did you drive?  Only complaint about my Tacoma is the head room getting in through the door.  But once I get in I got plenty of leg and head room.


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## Smokey_Joe (Mar 7, 2007)

Larry Wolfe said:
			
		

> Hey Joe which one did you drive?  Only complaint about my Tacoma is the head room getting in through the door.  But once I get in I got plenty of leg and head room.



I checked out the Tacoma...   The salesman said the Tundra has much more interior space and access, but they didn't have one on the lot. He said they sell as fast as they come in.

I agree, the access was cramped  on the Tacoma, and I also felt tight against the drivers door/window with my shoulders. Maybe the seat is too close to the door for inside space purposes???? I dunno. With the window down and elbow out the door it was plenty comfortable.... but that answer just don't cut it with New Englands weather.  The dash felt a little "close" too.

Will wait on a call about a Tundra.


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 7, 2007)

Smokey_Joe said:
			
		

> [quote="Larry Wolfe":ty50b5w4]
> 
> Hey Joe which one did you drive?  Only complaint about my Tacoma is the head room getting in through the door.  But once I get in I got plenty of leg and head room.



I checked out the Tacoma...   The salesman said the Tundra has much more interior space and access, but they didn't have one on the lot. He said they sell as fast as they come in.

I agree, the access was cramped  on the Tacoma, and I also felt tight against the drivers door/window with my shoulders. Maybe the seat is too close to the door for inside space purposes???? I dunno. With the window down and elbow out the door it was plenty comfortable.... but that answer just don't cut it with New Englands weather.  The dash felt a little "close" too.

Will wait on a call about a Tundra. [/quote:ty50b5w4]

I went from driving the older 98 Tacoma into the 05 Tacoma and it was huge compared to the older compact model.  Perfect mid-size truck for me and the family.  The Tundra is as big or bigger inside than the other full sized competitors.  Let me know what you think of the Tundra when you test drive it.  They are supposed to be beasts, but I know better than to test drive one or I'll more than likely end up with one in my driveway!  Can't be doing that!


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 8, 2007)

Chuckwagoncook said:
			
		

> Larry Wolfe said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I went from driving the older 98 Tacoma into the 05 Tacoma and it was huge compared to the older compact model.  Perfect mid-size truck for me and the family.  The Tundra is as big or bigger inside than the other full sized competitors.  Let me know what you think of the Tundra when you test drive it.  They are supposed to be beasts, but I know better than to test drive one or I'll more than likely end up with one in my driveway!  Can't be doing that![/quote:2mflfuxw]

I hear you there Larry, I dont dare go on the Ford lot, and look at the Super-Duty trucks, cause I aint sure I have enough restraint not to test drive one, and then I dont know if I could keep from buying one, which I would love to do, but my '97 runs just fine, hasnt let my down yet, and best of all *ITS PAID OFF!!*  That in its self is a great feeling, now if I can only get another 20 years outta the ole truck I will be doing good....  [/quote:2mflfuxw]

I got rid of my PAID OFF 98 Tacoma for the 05 Tacoma I have now.  Big mistake.  Don't get me wrong, I love my truck and it's far roomier for everyone, but I hate the payment and the 5 year commitment!


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## Smokey_Joe (Mar 8, 2007)

I'm lucky enough to have gotten myself in the position back in 1990 to pay for my new truck CASH....( had a vehicle with a paid off loan and hit $10,000 on a scratch ticket).....took those 2 and stepped right into a brand new paid off truck .

Since then each month I make a truck payment to MYSELF in MY savings account.  

Granted I miss a payment every now and again.... but when I do there is no pressure or impending doom.It will just delay the time of my next new truck.

Then in 4 years or so I take my CASH with MY INTEREST (not losing it to a loan company) and go to the dealer with GREAT bargaining power.  *CASH IN HAND*

So far I have been able to keep this method (knock on wood) and hope to never revert back to giving a bank the interest from MY money.


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## Captain Morgan (Mar 8, 2007)

Smokey_Joe said:
			
		

> I'm lucky enough to have gotten myself in the position back in 1990 to pay for my new truck CASH....( had a vehicle with a paid off loan and hit $10,000 on a scratch ticket).....took those 2 and stepped right into a brand new paid off truck .
> 
> Since then each month I make a truck payment to MYSELF in MY savings account.
> 
> ...




Now that sounds like a great plan!  I'm gonna do that tomorrow!  Now, which ticket did you buy?


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## Smokey_Joe (Mar 8, 2007)

Captain Morgan said:
			
		

> [quote="Smokey_Joe":1aejah16]I'm lucky enough to have gotten myself in the position back in 1990 to pay for my new truck CASH....( had a vehicle with a paid off loan and hit $10,000 on a scratch ticket).....took those 2 and stepped right into a brand new paid off truck .
> 
> Since then each month I make a truck payment to MYSELF in MY savings account.
> 
> ...




Now that sounds like a great plan!  I'm gonna do that tomorrow!  Now, which ticket did you buy?[/quote:1aejah16]

Massachusetts $2 "Twin Spin"


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## Helen_Paradise (Mar 10, 2007)

I bought a '98 Camry on Wednesday with oodles of help from Wolfe. I'll try and post some pictures this weekend. I am pretty excited over it.


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