# Top of Pizza Burning



## GHPoe (Jan 3, 2009)

I have a 36" Wolf Std./Convection Oven with a pampered chef pizza stone.  I made two different pizzas and both seem to cook the top of the pizza too fast.

Condtions were as follows.  Oven set to Bake Stone 425 deg.  The oven preheated for about 1 hour with the stone in it.  The first pizza was cooked on the stone on the bottom rack, while the second was cooked on the rack second from the bottom (also on the stone).  In both cases the cheese melted so fast and the crust never got crispy on the bottom.

Everything I could find on the web sounded like the higher you place the rack, the closer to the heat source your food will be.  Wolf states the bake stone setting means 60% off the heat will radiate from the bottom of the oven, while 40% radiates from the top.

Any ideas on what to try next time?


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## Seven S (Jan 4, 2009)

I am assuming you are making your own dough and stretching it quite thin - meaning the thickness of the crust is not the problem.  When I make pizza, I usually preheat the oven for an hour at 550 which is my highest oven setting.  In real brick ovens, temperatures are often higher than 1000 degrees.  You could try preheating the oven with the stone, and at the moment the pizza goes in, close the door and shut the oven off?  It seems your oven is extremely hot so it may retain the heat very well for the 8-10 mins that it takes to cook the pizza, plus your problem seems to be the pizza stone is not hot enough... perhaps your pizza stone is very thin and does not retain heat well.  Never tried shutting the oven off, but it may work for you.  Or since the oven states the majority of the heat is emanating from the bottom, then keep raising the racks until it cooks better.  Again, the problem seems to be that the pizza stone is the problem, not the oven... thats my guess.

Another thing, do not put too many watery toppings on the pizza.  Put a very thin light coating of sauce on your pizza as well.


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## Maverick2272 (Jan 4, 2009)

Try putting the stone near the top of the oven while it warms up, then move it to the center and slide your pizza onto that. Also. what exactly is your crust like? Are you trying to do a thicker crust or a thin crust?
I know for mine I like to slide the crust onto the stone and cook for 10 minutes, then I add the toppings and finish cooking the pizza. I do it this was as that is what my pizza stone's directions indicated you should do to get a crispy crust.


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## chefnaterock (Jan 4, 2009)

Can you turn your oven's fan off? Could be that the stone just requires more heat than the cheese. I use a stone in my conventional oven.  In my convection oven, I start the pizza on a pan with corn meal then switch to the wire rack.


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## AMSeccia (Jan 4, 2009)

You always want to cook with the stone in the lower third of your oven, especially if a gas oven.  *Always preheat your oven (sans the stone)*.  You aren't saving any time or energy by trying to preheat them at the same time, and can technically void your warranty by doing so.   (NEVER PREHEAT STONE IF COOKING A FROZEN PIZZA!).  

When I'm making fresh pizza, I jack my oven as high as it'll go ... once it's hot, I slide my stone onto the bottom rack while I'm assembling the pizza on a peel (sprinkled with cornmeal).  We used to have a huge Blodget oven in my parents restaurant, and we always made the pizzas right on peels and then slid them onto the oven floor.  Toss a sprinkling of cornmeal onto the stone before you slide your pizza off the peel onto the stone.  Both the peel and the stone will have a bit of cornmeal on them so you can slide one to the other without the dough sticking or losing shape. 

I never bother with convection when I'm using my stones ... the idea of convection is to regulate temperature (and speed cooking), but once the stone absorbs the heat, there's no rushing the process.  It'll radiate the air temperature, no matter if it's circulating or not.  I've tested both ways and there's no appreciable difference, so why waste the energy?  I find my oven has to work harder to maintain temp with the convection on. 

How seasoned is your stone?  Sounds crazy, but the worse it looks the better it cooks ... the more seasoning you can get on that stone, the nicer that crust will be.


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## Maverick2272 (Jan 4, 2009)

Never knew about the convection part as I don't have one... just out of curiosity what kind of stone do you guys have? Mine was a gift so I don't know exactly who made it and had to borrow directions from the Internet, they are not very detailed to say the least as they have to be general...


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## AMSeccia (Jan 4, 2009)

Mine are Pampered Chef (because I have sold them for 12 years, LOL).  PM me sometime and I'll be happy to help with instructions.  Biggest thing is no soap necessary (it'll just bond itself to the seasoning on your stone, giving you a stummy ache).  Clean with hot water and/or baking soda, a stiff brush or pan scraper.  Try not to use food spray (other than say Baker's Joy for muffins or brownies, etc.), stick with natural food fats from whatever you're cooking and allow to season through regular use.  Preheat oven, bring ice cold items to room temp if you can before cooking, ideally having stone and food in it coming to oven temp at similar pace.  

Frozen pizza is a whole 'nother monster ... I suggest letting it thaw a bit while oven heats.  If it's not rock hard frozen, you can almost always get away with baking on a preheated stone without thermal shock (which can snap, crackle and pop your stone).  Hence the 3-year warranty!


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## chefnaterock (Jan 4, 2009)

AMSeccia said:


> You always want to cook with the stone in the lower third of your oven, especially if a gas oven. *Always preheat your oven (sans the stone)*. You aren't saving any time or energy by trying to preheat them at the same time, and can technically void your warranty by doing so. (NEVER PREHEAT STONE IF COOKING A FROZEN PIZZA!).
> 
> When I'm making fresh pizza, I jack my oven as high as it'll go ... once it's hot, I slide my stone onto the bottom rack while I'm assembling the pizza on a peel (sprinkled with cornmeal). We used to have a huge Blodget oven in my parents restaurant, and we always made the pizzas right on peels and then slid them onto the oven floor. Toss a sprinkling of cornmeal onto the stone before you slide your pizza off the peel onto the stone. Both the peel and the stone will have a bit of cornmeal on them so you can slide one to the other without the dough sticking or losing shape.
> 
> ...


 
How do you recommend getting the stone seasoned.  I have had mine for two years and it is still beige rather than that nice black-brown color.  Should I smear it with lard or crisco, and then bake it solo?


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## GHPoe (Jan 4, 2009)

Yes I am making my own dough and its pretty thin.  The dough does not seem to be raw, just a very white looking color.  The pizza stone is a Pampered Chef stone and must be around 10 years old, it is quite thin.  I have placed an order for a new one from King Arthurs and will post back updates with the results.

The pizzas are only topped with a thin layer of sauce and just enough cheese to cover the sauce.

When the oven is turned off, it actually stays on blowing its fans for awhile (maybe an hour).



Seven S said:


> I am assuming you are making your own dough and stretching it quite thin - meaning the thickness of the crust is not the problem.  When I make pizza, I usually preheat the oven for an hour at 550 which is my highest oven setting.  In real brick ovens, temperatures are often higher than 1000 degrees.  You could try preheating the oven with the stone, and at the moment the pizza goes in, close the door and shut the oven off?  It seems your oven is extremely hot so it may retain the heat very well for the 8-10 mins that it takes to cook the pizza, plus your problem seems to be the pizza stone is not hot enough... perhaps your pizza stone is very thin and does not retain heat well.  Never tried shutting the oven off, but it may work for you.  Or since the oven states the majority of the heat is emanating from the bottom, then keep raising the racks until it cooks better.  Again, the problem seems to be that the pizza stone is the problem, not the oven... thats my guess.
> 
> Another thing, do not put too many watery toppings on the pizza.  Put a very thin light coating of sauce on your pizza as well.


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## GHPoe (Jan 4, 2009)

The oven is electric.  The dial is set to bake vs. convection, however I do notice the fans are cycling in the back and top when in this mode, so it may be some type of hybrid mode.

The stone is pretty dark and nasty looking.   It has never been washed with soap, just scraped clean.  Although I did like the tip about using baking soda to clean it.



AMSeccia said:


> You always want to cook with the stone in the lower third of your oven, especially if a gas oven.  *Always preheat your oven (sans the stone)*.  You aren't saving any time or energy by trying to preheat them at the same time, and can technically void your warranty by doing so.   (NEVER PREHEAT STONE IF COOKING A FROZEN PIZZA!).
> 
> When I'm making fresh pizza, I jack my oven as high as it'll go ... once it's hot, I slide my stone onto the bottom rack while I'm assembling the pizza on a peel (sprinkled with cornmeal).  We used to have a huge Blodget oven in my parents restaurant, and we always made the pizzas right on peels and then slid them onto the oven floor.  Toss a sprinkling of cornmeal onto the stone before you slide your pizza off the peel onto the stone.  Both the peel and the stone will have a bit of cornmeal on them so you can slide one to the other without the dough sticking or losing shape.
> 
> ...


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## Seven S (Jan 4, 2009)

AMSeccia said:


> *Always preheat your oven (sans the stone)*.  You aren't saving any time or energy by trying to preheat them at the same time, and can technically void your warranty by doing so.   (NEVER PREHEAT STONE IF COOKING A FROZEN PIZZA!).



As far as fresh-made pizza dough, I disagree.  The whole point of having the stone in the oven is for helping the cooking process.  You ALWAYS need to preheat the stone, when the pizza slides unto the hot stone it begins cooking the underside immediately.  If the stone is cold, the cooking of the underside of the pizza will not begin until the entire stone has absorbed enough heat and only then, can it begin transferring heat and cooking the dough.  As per the original poster GHPoe, the problem is the underside is not getting crispy/cooked... by NOT preheating the stone in this case would only make that problem worse.

In regards to FROZEN pizza, I have no clue and would recommend following the box instructions.


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## AMSeccia (Jan 4, 2009)

chefnaterock said:


> How do you recommend getting the stone seasoned. I have had mine for two years and it is still beige rather than that nice black-brown color. Should I smear it with lard or crisco, and then bake it solo?


 
The best way to season it is to USE it ... bake everything on it, but especially high fat items.  If it is a stone with sides, cook bacon in the oven and have BLTs for dinner.  If it is a flat baking stone (don't relegate just to pizza, you're missing out), bake cookies, make fresh oven fries or sweet potato fries, warm leftovers ... I even do pork chops and boneless chicken on the flat stones.  The average home cook can do their kids fish sticks and frozen fries on it and build a nice seasoning over time.  A large "party size" cookie or a vegie pizza is the easy answer.  

I don't like to see people smear with fat (or worse yet spray with Pam) and bake solo, it just gets tacky and you won't feel like you have a clean stone.  You're further ahead to allow a gradual, natural seasoning to build through regular use (which will create a nice smooth surface).  If you don't have cause to use it daily, I _unofficially_ endorse having on an open oven shelf while cooking other things in other vessels.  It will help regulate your oven temp and draw some of the moisture from whatever else you're cooking.  PC doesn't agree with that recommendation, but I find it is helpful for some people!


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## AMSeccia (Jan 4, 2009)

Seven S said:


> As far as fresh-made pizza dough, I disagree. The whole point of having the stone in the oven is for helping the cooking process. You ALWAYS need to preheat the stone, when the pizza slides unto the hot stone it begins cooking the underside immediately. If the stone is cold, the cooking of the underside of the pizza will not begin until the entire stone has absorbed enough heat and only then, can it begin transferring heat and cooking the dough. As per the original poster GHPoe, the problem is the underside is not getting crispy/cooked... by NOT preheating the stone in this case would only make that problem worse.
> 
> In regards to FROZEN pizza, I have no clue and would recommend following the box instructions.


 
I'm saying preheat the oven first, THEN the stone.  This is to prevent the stone from popping from thermal shock, which can happen if it heats at a different pace than the oven or is too close to the heat source.  

I absolutely agree ... you want the fresh dough to slide onto a hot stone.   Sorry if that didn't come through, but that is why I'm building the pizza on a peel and sliding onto the stone which is already in the oven.


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## Andy M. (Jan 4, 2009)

AMSeccia said:


> I'm saying preheat the oven first, THEN the stone.  This is to prevent the stone from popping from thermal shock, which can happen if it heats at a different pace than the oven or is too close to the heat source...




I believe your method would cause a much greater thermal shock than heating the stone in the oven from the beginning.

Consider you are putting a room temperature stone into a 500 F oven there is a temperature differential of about 430 F.  On the other hand, heating the stone and the oven together would result in much lower temperature differences.  Even if the stone takes twice as long as the oven (or whatever) to reach temperature, there will never be a temperature difference as great as the one your method would guarantee.

I keep my PC stone in the oven all the time and it is fine.


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## GHPoe (Jan 4, 2009)

I would imagine quite a shock to the stone if the stone was hot and you placed a frozen pizza on it.  It may crack your stone.



Seven S said:


> As far as fresh-made pizza dough, I disagree.  The whole point of having the stone in the oven is for helping the cooking process.  You ALWAYS need to preheat the stone, when the pizza slides unto the hot stone it begins cooking the underside immediately.  If the stone is cold, the cooking of the underside of the pizza will not begin until the entire stone has absorbed enough heat and only then, can it begin transferring heat and cooking the dough.  As per the original poster GHPoe, the problem is the underside is not getting crispy/cooked... by NOT preheating the stone in this case would only make that problem worse.
> 
> In regards to FROZEN pizza, I have no clue and would recommend following the box instructions.


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## kitchenelf (Jan 4, 2009)

And another aspect to all of this is a stone is normally used in a no more than 350 oven.  Mine popped but I also had a layer of foil under the stone on the next level down, I think this caused a heat rise that cracked the stone.

You MUST put the stone in the oven during the heating up process.  Never put a cold stone into a really hot oven.  350 is another thing though.  But, the whole purpose to using a stone is the advantage of preheating it.

Crescent rolls help season a stone too - make some pigs in a blanket! 

Also, PC recommends you never put anything frozen on their stones, preheated would be even worse than not preheated.  The shock would be too great.


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## AMSeccia (Jan 4, 2009)

Well, stones are fired at thousands of degrees, so cooking higher than 350 is really not an issue. I  have been using and selling stones PC stones since 1996 and have never steered anybody wrong, let alone popped a stone. My daughter broke one baking a frozen pastie, but she was using the large stone for one pastie!  There are 14 stones in racks on top of my refrigerator that get used on a daily basis, and countless more in cabinets.

This is a great discussion, since we all have a different approach.  I will contact the test kitchens and/or product development and report back their latest recommendations.  OP, I suggest you follow the use and care information that comes with whatever stone you have.  Mine clearly states to preheat the oven, although the newer stones (possibly from different manufacturers through the years) do not have that verbiage on the use and care.  PC's test kitchens advise not placing a stone in a cold oven.  They will also advise you not to store your stone in the oven, although a few posts above I said many people have success seasoning theirs this way.  

Clay cooking is as old as time.  I doubt any of us will change eachother's minds.


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## GhettoRacingKid (Jan 4, 2009)

Im going to chime in on my pizza making skills.

I dont not and will not ever own or use a stone.  There is no need IMO.

I take a heavy guage sheet pan and flip it upside down.  I put it in the oven while its preheating to 500.  When Im ready to put in the pizza I loweer the heat to i think 400 or 425 then I slide the pizza onto the heated sheet pan.  about 9 minutes later I have a nice perfect crispy crust.  Perfectly melted cheese.  

I do use a mix of corn meal and flour to slide the pizza from the upside down sheet pan i make it on to the heated on in the over.

I do put it in the middle of the oven.


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## Dariuss (Jan 4, 2009)

Nothing beats a stone-cooked pizza!

I definitely heat the stone with the oven, and never use it for a frozen pizza.


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## GHPoe (Jan 4, 2009)

Today I used the regular bake setting at 450 deg. and noticed no fans were running during the process.  The crust cooked perfectly.

My advise is to stay away from the Bake->Stone setting on the wolf ovens.  Further reading of the manual found that it should only be used with their proprietary baking stone.  Even if this is true, the fans do kick on with this setting and probably were the reason the cheese cooked so fast and turned brown.  With the bake setting no fans turned on at all.  (i.e. no convection effect)

Thanks to all that responded.


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## Seven S (Jan 5, 2009)

GHPoe said:


> Today I used the regular bake setting at 450 deg. and noticed no fans were running during the process.  The crust cooked perfectly.
> 
> My advise is to stay away from the Bake->Stone setting on the wolf ovens.  Further reading of the manual found that it should only be used with their proprietary baking stone.  Even if this is true, the fans do kick on with this setting and probably were the reason the cheese cooked so fast and turned brown.  With the bake setting no fans turned on at all.  (i.e. no convection effect)
> 
> Thanks to all that responded.



Thanks for reporting back your results.  Interesting that their proprietary stone works differently!  I do find that Wolf ovens cook rather quickly after having almost overcooking a 25-lb turkey for thanksgiving...  I believe it cooked in under 3 hours at 325!!


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## GhettoRacingKid (Jan 5, 2009)

glad to hear it all worked out


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## Lizannd (Jan 5, 2009)

*First of all get rid of the Pampered Chef stone.  Sorry*

to all you fans out there but you need to heat the stone to as hot as your oven will go. I have a generic PIZZA stone, not a baking stone, that I put in my oven and heat to 550 degrees. I stretch my dough thin, top it and put it in the oven on the HOT pizza stone. A plain cheese or garlic pizza cooks in 5 minutes. It has the crispest crust ever. A pizza with more toppings takes about 2 minutes longer. I have never had to bake a pizza for more than 7 minutes. The thing with Pampered Chef is that you can't get the oven hot enough and you are not supposed to preheat the stone.


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## AMSeccia (Jan 5, 2009)

Lizannd said:


> The thing with Pampered Chef is that you can't get the oven hot enough.


 
That is simply not true!  One has nothing to do with the other ... you CAN preheat the stone as long as you aren't putting anything frozen on it!  And just like cookware, there are many different manufacturers and brands.  The fact that you have a generic stone doesn't make it better, nor does it make it inferior.  Just make sure it's made in the USA and lead free.


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## GHPoe (Feb 12, 2009)

*Final Results*

I had very good luck with my new King Arthur Pizza Stone / 550deg. bake / bottom rack / 3-4 min. total cook time.

The new stone is twice as thick as my old pampered chef stone and I kicked up the heat from 400 to 550.  I am not saying the pampered chef stone was the problem, I have had that stone for about 10 years and will continue to keep it.

Here is a pic.


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## AMSeccia (Feb 12, 2009)

Looks GREAT, glad you had good results.  Thanks for sharing the pic.


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## Seven S (Feb 12, 2009)

GHPoe said:


> I had very good luck with my new King Arthur Pizza Stone / 550deg. bake / bottom rack / 3-4 min. total cook time.
> 
> The new stone is twice as thick as my old pampered chef stone and I kicked up the heat from 400 to 550.  I am not saying the pampered chef stone was the problem, I have had that stone for about 10 years and will continue to keep it.
> 
> Here is a pic.




I like EVERYTHING about it...  the MAX temp in the oven, the short cook time, the picture looks exactly the way it should - simple artisanal Margherita!  I personally use King Arthur unbleached, unbromated flour which I find works great.  Mi hai fatto sorridere!!


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## GHPoe (Feb 14, 2009)

My last few pizzas used the unbleached flour.  This type of flour looks a little more yellow and I can definitely taste a difference.


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