# Can't get "fall off the bone" ribs in my smoker



## Rocklobster

I have a couple of smokers. I've had a Rocky Mountain propane smoker for a few years now. One thing I can't seem to get it my ribs to fall off the bone tender. So, my prefered rib method is usually pre cooking in oven and finishing off over coals. But, I am determined to get this right. Don't get me wrong, the ribs from the smoker are good tastewise, but the meat is a bit dryer than you have to work a bit to get it off the bone. I wonder if my thermostat is wrong and maybe I am smoking at a higher heat than what is actually indicated(wich is 225). But, they don't darken prematurely or anything. I want to go at it again and try to perfect this. I have followed many instructions and tried different things, but can never get the darned things tender and juicy enough, for my liking. I am a little disappointed because ribs are the main reason I bought it.


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## CraigC

Do you use a mop and foil them after they have taken enough smoke? Most comp folks don't want "fall off the bone" ribs. They are looking more for tender but with a little resistence. If "fall off" is what you're after, that's cool too.

Craig


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## Selkie

Have you tried par-boiling them first? Using a Dutch Oven I cook them in a liquid (Chicken broth, spices and water) until the meat is cooked but still firm. They stay moist and tender, (falling off of the bone) at the end of the grilling/baking process at 250F.


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## Rocklobster

I have used mops. I have also foiled them, but maybe not for a long enough period. I am looking to be able to pull a bone off clean. Maybe I can't achieve that with this method.
Another problem I have is that my wife and daughter prefer my bbq method ribs, and I am stubborn to get this smoker thing right. They just seem to be a bit tougher than I would like.


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## Rocklobster

Selkie said:


> Have you tried par-boiling them first? Using a Dutch Oven I cook them in a liquid (Chicken broth, spices and water) until the meat is cooked but still firm. They stay moist and tender, (falling off of the bone) at the end of the grilling/baking process at 250F.


 If and when I precook, whick is what I mainly do with my bbq method,  I usually do it in the oven, covered tightly, with a mix of spices and an inch of tomato juice and beer, or other liquids, at 250 for two or more hours. 
I am attempting to do these ribs from start to finish in the smoker and get them more tender than I have achieved so far. Thanks!


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## Selkie

When you get it perfected... I have this large bib... and I'll even bring the Cole Slaw!


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## Andy M.

"Falling off the bone" is a misnomer.  Ribs are done when the meat has pulled back from the ends of the rib bones and is tender.  At 225ºF-250ºF measured at the cooking surface, they should take around 3 hours for baby backs.


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## Rocklobster

Andy M. said:


> "Falling off the bone" is a misnomer. Ribs are done when the meat has pulled back from the ends of the rib bones and is tender. At 225ºF-250ºF measured at the cooking surface, they should take around 3 hours for baby backs.


 
Well, when I braise first, the bones come off clean. Any smoker ribs I have done have never been so tender. You always have to chew meat still stuck to the bones. Like I said, maybe I can't achieve this with a smoker afterall.  I have seen a couple of cooking shows where the ribs seem to come apart way easier than the ones I have produced. Just wondering what I am doing wrong.


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## Rocklobster

Selkie said:


> When you get it perfected... I have this large bib... and I'll even bring the Cole Slaw!


If you can make it here by 6, I'll throw an extra rack in.


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## CraigC

My same question from another thread,do you remove the membrane?

Craig


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## Rocklobster

CraigC said:


> My same question from another thread,do you remove the membrane?
> 
> Craig


Yes. I am doing some up today. Maybe I can create some photos that can illustrate what I can come up with.


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## BigAL

Rock, your not cooking/smoke'n them long enough.  Are you doing BB's or spares?  Plan on 6hrs for spares at 225-250.  I don't do BB's enough but know it has taken a good 4-5hrs for them.

A VERY, and I stress VERY, general guide is 3-2-1 for spares and 2-1.5-1(or 2-2-1) for BB's.  3 on rack, 2 in foil, 1 back on rack and add sauce last 30 min so as not to burn the sugars.

I'm not a fan of BB's or foil'n ribs.  I'll foil for maybe 30-45MAX.  I've done the 3-2-1 and had ribs that were just way too soft/tender.  Not a good mouth feel.


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## pacanis

Are you adding liquid when you foil them, Rock? I have given up this step when I grill ribs because they are probably just what you are after, fall off the bone ribs. You can hardly pick them up off the grill and usually I need to slide a cutting board under them as I lift. It's the middle step to 3-2-1, although those numbers are for whole racks, not baby backs or St Louis cut. Foil them up and add some apple juice, ice tea, pineapple juice... whatever, and let them steam a while, about 30 minutes for baby backs. Then carefully unfoil, set back on the grate and start brushing with sauce (or not).


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## GB

Andy M. said:


> "Falling off the bone" is a misnomer.  Ribs are done when the meat has pulled back from the ends of the rib bones and is tender.  At 225ºF-250ºF measured at the cooking surface, they should take around 3 hours for baby backs.


+1

I took a rib cooking class from a local award winning BBQ chef here and he said the same thing as Andy. He told us if your ribs are falling off the bone you are doing something wrong.


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## Andy M.

Interestingly, when you watch BBQ championships (or when I go to a BBQ championship) competitions, they NEVER do anything other than rub and toss into the smoker.  No pre-cooking, no foil, and often no saucing.  Membrane removal is not consistent.  Someone always wins a trophy!


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## forty_caliber

Try 185 for 5 hours and then raise the temp to 275 for about an hour or until internal temp is 190.

The long slow smoke will help make them more tender as connective tissues break down.  The last higher temp hour is where you can choose between fall off the bone (190) and tender with a little resistance (180 - 185).

Check out this thread http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f36/babybacks-65939.html

.40


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## Rocklobster

Today I am using back ribs. Not BB's. These are a larger rack. That 3-2-1 technique is a method that I will try today. And I will add some more liquid during foiling. Thanks, folks. I'll post my results tonight, if I don't drink too many cold cans in the process. I love weekends off!

Here they are rubbed up with Kansas City rub.


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## pacanis

Andy M. said:


> Interestingly, when you watch BBQ championships (or when I go to a BBQ championship) competitions, they NEVER do anything other than rub and toss into the smoker. No pre-cooking, no foil, and often no saucing. Membrane removal is not consistent. Someone always wins a trophy!


 
I can get mine that way now without foiling, but foiling them is practically a guarantee. And adds a little something extra depending on the liquid used. Of course, you need to cook them long enough though. My neighbor doesn't cook ribs because he says he doesn't have the patience to do it on the grill.


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## Rocklobster

GB said:


> +1
> 
> He told us if your ribs are falling off the bone you are doing something wrong.


 
What if that is what you are going after? Is what I like wrong?

Thanks everybody. Lots to chew on.....


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## pacanis

Rocklobster said:


> What if that is what you are going after? *Is what I like wrong?*
> 
> Thanks everybody. Lots to chew on.....


 
When you are here, yes.


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## BigAL

Comps are alot different than back yard grillers/smokers, imho.  

We like it when you bite the rib you can see your teeth marks and the meat pulls clean of the bone.  Nothing wrong with it pull'n all the meat off in one or two bites.  What ever floats your boat, Rock.

Really watch them when they are in the foil, that is where things can go bad fast due to the steam.  When in doubt, take them out of the foil.  Save the juice as a "mop", I pour it on later.  

To know when they are done is by eye.  Get gloves or tongs and do a bend test to see if the meat is pull'n away and the ribs act like they will just almost fall apart.  It really does take practice, and if you can get us some pic's we'll do our best to help any way we can.(not really, I just want pix!)

Good luck, Rock, you'll do fine.


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## roadfix

Any mention of par-boiling ribs can get you in big trouble in most bbq forums...

I used to use the "Texas Crutch" (foiling) method but my ribs always turned out too tender for my taste.  Now I smoke them for roughly half the time using slightly higher temps and I've been doing that every since.  When you pick up the slab and it bends easily it's done.
I usually don't bother pulling the membrane off.  I score it, criss-cross, end to end, and most will simply burn off during the cook.


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## roadfix

To add to my post above, I like to use simple rubs, most times just S&P, and sauce the ribs only after they've come out of the cooker at the end.


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## BigAL

WHat temp do you run, Road?  I've done hot and fast brisket and b.butts, but never thought about doing it to ribs.  I have a rack of spares to go on tomorrow that i might give a try.


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## roadfix

BigAL said:


> WHat temp do you run, Road?  I've done hot and fast brisket and b.butts, but never thought about doing it to ribs.  I have a rack of spares to go on tomorrow that i might give a try.


When I do spares on the Weber kettle I'll do about 2.5 hours @ 325° with just a couple of wood chunks thrown in at the beginning.  At the end of the cook I'll open the vents wide open, get the coals really going and move the ribs directly over the coals for a quick sear on both sides.


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## GB

Rocklobster said:


> What if that is what you are going after? Is what I like wrong?
> 
> Thanks everybody. Lots to chew on.....


You can do them and like them any way you like and for you it will not be wrong. You can cook them using the sun and a magnifying glass if you want. If that is how you like it then more power to you. I am just repeating what a world champion rib chef taught me.


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## Rocklobster

GB said:


> You can cook them using the sun and a magnifying glass if you want. If that is how you like it then more power to you..


 
Hmmmm. I think I will give that a try next time. I'm always up for a challenge


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## GB

Just make sure it is not raining the day you want to try


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## BigAL

There is also the butter "trick" when foil'n.  But I've also heard it's kind of a waste of time and butter.

Have any of you heard of the soft butter app before foil?  have you tried it?


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## pacanis

I have not heard of the butter trick. I would be afraid it would burn and smoke. How does it work?


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## CraigC

Andy M. said:


> Interestingly, when you watch BBQ championships (or when I go to a BBQ championship) competitions, they NEVER do anything other than rub and toss into the smoker. No pre-cooking, no foil, and often no saucing. Membrane removal is not consistent. Someone always wins a trophy!


 
I believe I have seen several comp BBQers foil their ribs when they think the ribs have had enough smoke. I have also seen them mop or spray their ribs.

Craig


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## Rocklobster

Done. They were very good. Still hard to tear the bones apart, but nice texture.


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## pacanis

Rocklobster said:


> Done. They were very good. Still hard to tear the bones apart, but nice texture.


 

As long as they were done and tasty, the little nuances like texture and caramelization of sauce (just the way you want) will follow... 7 out of 10 times  But they will still be _good_.
And those look _good!_


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## buckytom

i'm very interested in this thread as i have the same (mistaken?) tastes in extra tender ribs, and the same problem with my smoker.

i've only had a smoker (gas) for a short while, and the few attempts at fall off the bone ribs were anything but. tasty, but very tough.

i'm going to try a couple of racks of spares either this week or next. if i get the chance, i'll try some with foil, some without. some shorter, some longer. should be a good experiment. i'll post results when it's done.

btw, i never par boil any q'd or grilled meats unless it's necessary due to time restraints, such as when we plan to grill chicken legs and thighs on a day trip to a lake. since the chicken is mostly cooked, all that's left to do is finish them with sauce. otherwise, i get to stand around the grill all day while everyone else swims and has fun.

imo, par boiling something like ribs washes away some fat, ergo flavour, and makes them more dry.


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## Rocklobster

buckytom said:


> i've only had a smoker (gas) for a short while, and the few attempts at fall off the bone ribs were anything but. tasty, but very tough.
> 
> .


I wonder if it has anything to do with the source of heat? Another problem I have with the gas smoker is that the heat is not neccessarily even across the rack. The drip tray covers the majority of the source, so the heat travels up the sides and back of the cabinet, and so you have to watch not to get your meat too close to the edges or it cookes unevenly and even can dry out faster. I usually try to keep my meat away from the sides of the cabinet and make sure that the thicker parts of the cuts are on the outsides of the racks.
I may buy an electric one, now that I have had and used this one for a few years. I may not have to stay too close to watch the temp, like I do with the gas one.
My family still likes my parbake, charcoal finsih ribs better. Back to the drawing board.


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## Andy M.

Rocklobster said:


> I wonder if it has anything to do with the source of heat? Another problem I have with the gas smoker is that the heat is not neccessarily even across the rack. The drip tray covers the majority of the source, so the heat travels up the sides and back of the cabinet,...




Sounds to me like it's the design of the smoker more than the source of the heat.  If you replaced the heat source, it would still have to navigate around the drip tray and the sides and back of the cabinet.  

Maybe you could do an experiment with an oven thermometer.  Get the smoker going to the temperature you use for ribs and take temp readings at different locations around the grate the food sits on.


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## BigAL

I gotta say, I still think your not cook'n them long enough.  Just from experience and the way they look.  

If you find some cheap spares, just try going longer.  When you hold the ribs up 1/4 of the way in on one end and it bends to the point that it falls appart, your there.  BTDT.  

Just my opinion.


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## Uncle Bob

Mankind has been cooking meat over the dry heat of wood fires (coals) for about a million years or so with great success...Generally growing taller, getting stronger and smarter as a result. ~~ For hundreds, if not thousands of years the mysteries of the ancient art were passed down from mouth to ear...from father to son, from mother to daughter. ~~ It’s not been but in the last 40-50 or so years that he began to screw things up...He (Mankind) got lazy, He got sucked onto the “fast food” mentality.  He wanted BBQ and he wanted it NOW. He did not want to spend the requisite time to learn the art, much less invest in the requisite time to master it...So he began to look for, and take short cuts. With the help of likeminded uninformed individuals of the “fast food” culture he began his journey into the dark abyss of misunderstanding, misinformation, and misfortune. Corporate America was more than willing  to aided him in his quest ~~ The knowledge which had been passed down through the generations began to fade in man’s consciences ~~~ Today a whole generation is all but lost, and another is well on it’s way ~~ At no other time in history has a roll of aluminum foil, a pound of brown sugar, a quart of apple juice, a jar of mustard, two old towels, and a 48 qt, Igloo cooler been required to cook a pork butt ~~ Horace Greeley said “Go west young man, Go west. ~~~ I say, “Look behind you young man...Look behind you” ~~ There you will find enlightenment!  


Good Luck.........


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## Rocklobster

BigAL said:


> I gotta say, I still think your not cook'n them long enough. Just from experience and the way they look.
> 
> If you find some cheap spares, just try going longer. When you hold the ribs up 1/4 of the way in on one end and it bends to the point that it falls appart, your there. BTDT.
> 
> Just my opinion.


 
You could very well be right, Al. That was 6 hours using the 3-2-1. Apple juice during foiling, saucing for the last half an hour, all at 225 for the whole process. I just had one cold and they are really good. I sould get another model of smoking unit that is not so susceptible to temp variations, so I could leave it and have a bit more freedom throughout the day.


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## BigAL

Rock, I suggest getting a pellet smoker.  They are just so easy, with a digital therm.  They are like an oven, with smoke.  Down side is cost, they can be a bit pricey for sure.  

I heat up the smoker, set the temp I want, fill the hopper full of pellets, throw the meat on and I can be gone for 2-3hrs, have even gone 4hrs.


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## Rocklobster

BigAL said:


> Rock, I suggest getting a pellet smoker. They are just so easy, with a digital therm. They are like an oven, with smoke. Down side is cost, they can be a bit pricey for sure.
> 
> I heat up the smoker, set the temp I want, fill the hopper full of pellets, throw the meat on and I can be gone for 2-3hrs, have even gone 4hrs.


 Yes. I have checked them out and they are very nice.  Not a common item around these parts. Neither are the pellets.


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## roadfix

Uncle Bob said:


> Mankind has been cooking meat over the dry heat of wood fires (coals) for about a million years or so with great success...Generally growing taller, getting stronger and smarter as a result. ~~ For hundreds, if not thousands of years the mysteries of the ancient art were passed down from mouth to ear...from father to son, from mother to daughter. ~~ It’s not been but in the last 40-50 or so years that he began to screw things up...He (Mankind) got lazy, He got sucked onto the “fast food” mentality.  He wanted BBQ and he wanted it NOW. He did not want to spend the requisite time to learn the art, much less invest in the requisite time to master it...So he began to look for, and take short cuts. With the help of likeminded uninformed individuals of the “fast food” culture he began his journey into the dark abyss of misunderstanding, misinformation, and misfortune. Corporate America was more than willing  to aided him in his quest ~~ The knowledge which had been passed down through the generations began to fade in man’s consciences ~~~ Today a whole generation is all but lost, and another is well on it’s way ~~ At no other time in history has a roll of aluminum foil, a pound of brown sugar, a quart of apple juice, a jar of mustard, two old towels, and a 48 qt, Igloo cooler been required to cook a pork butt ~~ Horace Greeley said “Go west young man, Go west. ~~~ I say, “Look behind you young man...Look behind you” ~~ There you will find enlightenment!


Using retained heat two days after firing the wood oven for pizza I often slow cook ribs or roasts in it.  Bone dry heat, they come out great.  And since I have no control over the oven temperature, time is my only variable.  Ribs generally take anywhere from 3 to 6 hours using this ancient method.


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## FrankZ

roadfix said:


> Using retained heat two days after firing the wood oven for pizza I often slow cook ribs or roasts in it.  Bone dry heat, they come out great.  And since I have no control over the oven temperature, time is my only variable.  Ribs generally take anywhere from 3 to 6 hours using this ancient method.




Now yer just showing off... 


Looks good.


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## roadfix

FrankZ said:


> Now yer just showing off...
> 
> 
> Looks good.


Whatever works, and my wife says the same thing....but thanks anyway...


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## teesquare

I have had problems in the past when cooking with gas...I find that it is a drier kind of heat than even wood. I don't have anything more than anecdotal experience to support this - but it has always been a bit more of a challenge for me. The pellet cookers *do* produce a finished product that retains more moisture for sure.
Perhaps in the interim - a pan of beer and seasonings in with your ribs for moisture/aromatics...


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## PrincessFiona60

roadfix said:


> Using retained heat two days after firing the wood oven for pizza I often slow cook ribs or roasts in it.  Bone dry heat, they come out great.  And since I have no control over the oven temperature, time is my only variable.  Ribs generally take anywhere from 3 to 6 hours using this ancient method.



I missed this...those look awesome!

Will you come build me a pizza oven????


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## pacanis

Actually, gas fuel produces a moister environment due to the way it burns. I'm not sure if that could be noticed in a grill or smoker, but it is why home bakers prefer electric in their ovens. Or so I'm told. I don't do enough baking to know if I'm even doing it right, lol.


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## teesquare

I know less than nothing about baking - but theis site will help remedy that I hope!


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