# Why does everything stick to my pans?



## Skittle68

My bf bought me a nice set of stainless steel pans for Christmas last year, and it seems like everything sticks to them. What is going on?? I'm pretty sure we use plenty of oil, and always make sure it is heated up before adding anything to the pan. I hate to use Teflon when we have this nice stainless steel set...


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## Dawgluver

I think it's the nature of the beast, Skittle.  I try to get mine in the sink with water ASAP.


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## Andy M.

Basic rules for SS pans.

1.  The pan must be completely clean.  No residue from previous uses.  Food sticks to residue.  This is why there is Barkeepers Friend.

2. Pan and fat (oil or butter or a combination) must both be hot before you add the meat.  Add the fat when the pan is cold or hot - it doesn't matter.  Just make sure the pan and the oil are hot before adding food.  When the oil is shimmering in the pan and beginning to smoke, it's ready.

3.  Meat must be dry.

4. Place the meat in the pan and leave it alone.  Don't try to move it.  Leave it alone.

Meats will stick to the pan initially.  As the meat heats up and starts to brown, it will detach itself from the pan.  When you turn it over to the other side, it will initially stick again and detach itself after cooking a bit.

The most difficult part of this process is waiting for the meat to unstick itself.


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## Skittle68

Dawgluver said:


> I think it's the nature of the beast, Skittle.  I try to get mine in the sink with water ASAP.



We have potatoes frying for breakfast right now, and as they start to brown, the browned parts stick to the pan and rip off :/ hard to get nice hashbrowns that way.


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## Dawgluver

Skittle68 said:


> We have potatoes frying for breakfast right now, and as they start to brown, the browned parts stick to the pan and rip off :/ hard to get nice hashbrowns that way.



Andy's advice works for hashbrowns too.  When I made S&P'S lovely potato pancakes, I was amazed, they didn't stick!  I did use a lot of oil.  Dang.  Wish I'd taken a pic.


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## pacanis

I have  gas stove with the grates. I've found that if I "bounce" the pan on the grate and give it a shake, it will either release the food or tell me it isn't ready to flip yet. I would not do that with all stoves, which is why I mentioned the type I have.


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## Skittle68

pacanis said:


> I have  gas stove with the grates. I've found that if I "bounce" the pan on the grate and give it a shake, it will either release the food or tell me it isn't ready to flip yet. I would not do that with all stoves, which is why I mentioned the type I have.



I have an electric stove, and I do kind of the same thing with a Teflon pan- I just flip the potato cubes up and over themselves to rotate them evenly. Next time I'll try it, and if they stick I guess they aren't ready yet. We will see


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## pacanis

I wasn't sure if you could do that with an electric stove. I don't know how sturdy those elements are. It's worth a try if you think it's OK.


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## Skittle68

pacanis said:


> I wasn't sure if you could do that with an electric stove. I don't know how sturdy those elements are. It's worth a try if you think it's OK.



I don't use the element- I pick up the pan and jerk it forward and up to get the potatoes to slide up the edge of the pan and flip back on top of themselves.

There's probably a name for this technique but I have no clue what that would be. I see the guys in the restaurant I work at doing it with the pastas all the time.


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## pacanis

Skittle68 said:


> I don't use the element- I pick up the pan and jerk it forward and up to get the potatoes to slide up the edge of the pan and flip back on top of themselves.
> 
> There's probably a name for this technique but I have no clue what that would be. I see the guys in the restaurant I work at doing it with the pastas all the time.


 
Gotcha. What I was trying to describe is actually bouncing the pan on the grate a little and giving it a shake to hasten, or see, if the food has released.
Heck, I don't even know if it actually does anything, but I do it just the same


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## Andy M.

When the food is ready to release, as I described above, sometimes it needs a little agitation to release it completely.  So banging it on the grate, shaking it or using a spatula to break it free will do the trick.  

Skittle, maybe a little more fat in the pan will help.


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## Skittle68

Andy M. said:


> When the food is ready to release, as I described above, sometimes it needs a little agitation to release it completely.  So banging it on the grate, shaking it or using a spatula to break it free will do the trick.
> 
> Skittle, maybe a little more fat in the pan will help.



I was thinking maybe a mix of butter and oil instead of just oil? Everything already gets a little greasy... But I will try letting it sit for a bit before messing with it next time and see if that helps. Thanks!


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## Andy M.

Skittle68 said:


> I was thinking maybe a mix of butter and oil instead of just oil? Everything already gets a little greasy... *But I will try letting it sit for a bit before messing with it next time and see if that helps.* Thanks!



This is the whole key to success!

The type of fat shouldn't make a difference with the sticking.


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## Skittle68

Andy M. said:


> This is the whole key to success!
> 
> The type of fat shouldn't make a difference with the sticking.



Good to know- thanks for the advice!


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## ChefRH11

This is one of the most annoying things I have to deal with! Sometimes it is about the temperature of the pan and the amount of grease, but most often than not it has to do with whatever I am frying not yet being ready to flip. It's super annoying though! I really like using non-stick pans. I usually encounter this problem more with my stainless steel cookware. The best advice I have gotten (and this usually works) is to make sure the pan is sufficiently hot before you add the oil/butter. It should be hot enough that a drop of water will sizzle upon hitting it. And then of course waiting until the oil is hot enough as well before adding the ingredients. Then I try to find the perfect temperature to cook on. If something is stuck, I will turn it to low and it usually become unstuck.


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## Rocklobster

I use a 3 inch paint scraper when frying some things. It is thinner than most spatulas and works great when getting the food unstuck. Just be careful when using it that you don't scratch the heck out of the pan. Once you get a nice crust on whatever you are frying it will be less likely to stick. Then after the first flip, I turn the heat down a notch and it will continue to brown without burning or sticking....


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## tropical cooker

If the water just sizzles, the pan is too cold. The water must ball up like a mercury ball and bounce around the pan. Check this out:

When is the right time to add oil to a stainless steel pan. Mercury Ball Test. - YouTube

Additionally, make sure the water is no longer in the pan before you add the oil. This will prevent the oil from splattering because of the water.

What I do, is time how long it takes to heat the pan and test with the water drop. Then, in the future, I just know how long it takes to get to "mercury ball" temperature.   (My 12 inch pan takes about 5 minutes to heat up.)

Also, I heat my ss pans using medium heat, not high. This was the recomended level that was on the instructions that came with the pans.


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## Andy M.

Skittle, just out of curiosity, what kind of SS pans do you have?  Are they tri-ply, disk on the bottom or a single layer of stainless?


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## GLC

A few points worth covering. The most important and common reason for sticking has been mentioned, but it's worth recognizing its importance. Browning meat will release when it's ready. Sticking occurs when you try to rush it. 

Stainless steel pans do need careful handling. Stainless steel is soft and gets softer when hot. It is easily scratched. Scracthed increase the chance of sticking when everything else isn't exactly right. Oil has to fill in all the other than flat spots, and excess scratches is asking for trouble. I do not use metal tools or abrasive cleaners on my stainless steel. Nor do I allow them to go into the dishwasher. That's a very harsh environment. Nor do I allow any deposits to accumulate. But stainless steel that has been damaged by long abuse with metal and abrasives can no longer be considered "non-stick" and should be discarded if they're your only cookware. 

There is always much discussion about the virtues of hot-pan-cool-oil or hot-pan-hot-oil. But from a stainless steel sticking perspective food should go into a hot pan with hot oil. Hot oil better fills the fine faults in the metal surface. And there are always flaws, even in new pans. 

Do not get too fixated on the high heat notion. High heat is appropriate for browning meat, but a lot of other cooking calls for low to medium heat. This is a difficult topic to talk about without live demonstration. When you need high heat, you really need high heat. But we can't put a label on the proper heat setting. There is far too much variation among ranges and between gas and electric. 

Sticking is not all bad. You should never have to pry meat off the pan surface, leaving meat behind. But you also don't need and shouldn't expect to always have all food lift off without a trace. Without some material sticking to the pan, we would have rather poor gravies and sauces. But the caramelized material that's stuck should come off cleanly when deglazing with wine or other liquid. And if you think about it, for these desirable products of deglazing you require sticking. You just require it to release, too. 

Eggs are a terror for many cooks. There's a finely defined point where enough oil and enough heat cooks eggs rapidly without sticking. I don't spend a lot of time hunting for it. I have one and only one pan with a Teflon type coating, a small fry pan for omelets. To learn to handle eggs in stainless steel, start with fried eggs and work out the correct situation, flipping when the whites start to set. Oh, and as with all foods, use room temperature eggs. 

And stay away from cooking sprays. They will tend to gum up the pan surface, which will cause sticking. Heavy bottom pans will tend to stick less, because they will heat more evenly across the surface, and they will tend to stay flatter.


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## tropical cooker

Continuing the conversaton; correct temperature trumps all. Check this out:

How to fry meat without oil in a Stainless Steel Fry Pan (Mauviel) - YouTube

Using a sufficiently hot pan is most important.

There was another video on Youtube that showed a guy frying an egg in a ss pan without oil...I can't seem to find it now.


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## Skittle68

Andy M. said:


> Skittle, just out of curiosity, what kind of SS pans do you have?  Are they tri-ply, disk on the bottom or a single layer of stainless?



They are tri-ply cuisinart. 

I'm definitely going to check out those you-tube videos! Thanks for all the tips- can't wait to start figuring out how to use these pans properly!


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

I have 2 SS frying pans.  One has the encapsulated bottom and is 12 inches across.  The other has a very thin aluminum coating on the bottom and is 8 inches across.  It's taken me a while to learn how to use them correctly.  for fried foods, I use the mercury method (though I didn't know what it was called).  I found it through trial and error.  But I get the pan hot while it is clean and dry.  I then add about a tsp. of cooking oil to the pan.  Sometimes I spread it around, while sometimes I spread it with a paper towel, just leaving an oil sheen.  It depends what I'm cooking.  The point is, when I place the food in the pan, be it potatoes, meat, green veggies, whatever, it just slides across the pan as if it were teflon.  If I'm frying meat, and want a fond from which to make a sauce, or gravy, I add the oil to the cold pan, bring it up to temperature over medium heat, and then add the meat.  I then brown it on both sides, cooking for the desired degree of pink, and use a thin metal spatula to turn the meat.  It sticks just a little, enough to give me fond.

The first method works so well, that even bacon releases without sticking.  I cook pancakes using the first method, with no sticking problems.  If I want crispy edges on the pancakes, I leave add a bit of butter to melt in the pan just before putting in the batter.

Sauces are another method.  First, I bring the pan up to temperature, but not as hot as for frying meat.  I place butter into the pan and let it melt as the pan is heating.  When it begins to bubble, I watch it closely.  When it quits bubbling, I add the same amount of flour as I did butter.  I stir it and let it cook until the flour reaches the color I want.  I then add milk, or stalk to make the kind of sauce I want.  After adding the liquid, heat must be reduced to keep the sauce from sticking, and scorching.

Stainless isn't too hard to master.  It simply takes a bit of practice, and paying attention to what happens when you do different things with it.  That, in my humble opinion, it the only sure way to learn the cooking skills.  I can give you advise, just as the others who have weighed in have.  And all of it will help you learn what you want to know.  But you have to try what has been given you.  See what works, and what doesn't.  That's how you learn the cooking skills you desire.

Skittle, you ask the right questions.  You are going to be a masterful cook, not just competent.  Your desire to learn is strong, young grashopper.  That will serve you well.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## Skittle68

Not too shabby- what a difference making sure the pan is hot enough makes! I got distracted and left one round of pancakes on a little too long and they got pretty dark, but most of them turned out perfect, and my bf commented, "Wow, it's like Teflon!" When I was making the eggs. Cool! The oil was getting a little dark so I wiped it with a paper towel and added just a touch more fresh oil between pancakes. Didn't add more for the eggs though. I kept it at a just barely there, thin layer the whole time. Just what I wanted! Hopefully it will work that well for the potatoes, if I can manage to leave them alone til they are ready to be turned. Yay!


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## pacanis

Nice


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## Andy M.

Skittle68 said:


> Not too shabby- what a difference making sure the pan is hot enough makes! I got distracted and left one round of pancakes on a little too long and they got pretty dark, but most of them turned out perfect, and my bf commented, "Wow, it's like Teflon!" When I was making the eggs. Cool! The oil was getting a little dark so I wiped it with a paper towel and added just a touch more fresh oil between pancakes. Didn't add more for the eggs though. I kept it at a just barely there, thin layer the whole time. Just what I wanted! Hopefully it will work that well for the potatoes, if I can manage to leave them alone til they are ready to be turned. Yay!
> View attachment 16592



Excellent!  Congrats.


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## PrincessFiona60

Leaving potatoes alone is the hardest thing to do...


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## no mayonnaise

Nice thing is even if the potatoes do stick somewhat, the part that sticks will eventually come off when it's ready and mix into the potatoes while you cook them.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

Way to go Skittles!

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## Skittle68

Mmmm steak and eggs! Still had some stickage with the potatoes, but nothing close to what it was before. It was just around the edge, I'm guessing where the pan was hanging off the small burner. Next time I'm going to try using the bigger burner and see if that helps. It worked perfectly in the middle. Either way, potatoes turned out great. Like "no mayo" said, the little pieces that do stick mix into the potatoes for crunchy flavor. By the end there was a ring of completely stuck bits, but since it didn't affect the quality I'm not too concerned about that. If using the larger burner reduces the sticking even more, I'm set! Thanks again everyone!

Now I just need bf to learn to cook steaks properly- he just times them! So it's dumb luck if they are medium rare. (We had medium well this morning) I am already on permanent egg duty (I'm better at it), so I don't want to start cooking the steaks!!







(I almost forgot to take the picture this time- that's why it's half eaten lol)


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## Janet H

Skittle68 said:


> .... *so I wiped it with a paper towel and added just a touch more fresh oil ....*



Ding ding! Winner 

This, in my experience is the key to non-stick stainless or aluminum pans.  Heating the pan (no fat) to fairly hot and then quickly rubbing a small amount of fat into the pan with a paper towel. Then add fat as usual and cook your goods.

By rubbing the hot pan with a little butter or oil you seal up all those tiny pores in the metal that make stuff stick. Using this method you can cook perfect eggs, omelets and other sticking hazards perfectly every time.


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## tropical cooker

I'm still looking for the video of frying an egg on ss without oil.  I came across this video that emphasizes the need to let things cook in the pan before trying to flip them.  

In the video, the cook turns off the heat.  I leave my heat on.  I do however, wait 1.5 minutes before trying to flip the egg.

Fried egg on stainless steel pan with Mike Rodriguez - YouTube


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## Mad Cook

Skittle68 said:


> My bf bought me a nice set of stainless steel pans for Christmas last year, and it seems like everything sticks to them. What is going on?? I'm pretty sure we use plenty of oil, and always make sure it is heated up before adding anything to the pan. I hate to use Teflon when we have this nice stainless steel set...


 I hate stainless steel pans with a passion. EVERYTHING sticks and burns apart from pasta, veg or anything you boil in lots of water. Put them on a high shelf to decorate your kitchen and invest in either Le Creuset or good quality (and this means expensive) aluminium ones.

(Incidentally the hoary old tale that boiling vegetables in aluminium will give you Alzheimers has long been discredited so don't worry about that.)


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## Mad Cook

"

"_My bf bought me a nice set of stainless steel pans for Christmas last year_," I'm curious to know how long he was unconscious after you hit him with the "gift" ;-)


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## Skittle68

Mad Cook said:


> "
> 
> "My bf bought me a nice set of stainless steel pans for Christmas last year," I'm curious to know how long he was unconscious after you hit him with the "gift" ;-)



LOL!! Well, at first I would have agreed with you! But I'm getting it down  Yesterday I made perfect over easy eggs, and hashbrowns. I could have just wiped the pans with a paper towel and put them away, there was so little sticking. I think it's all about making sure the temp is right.


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## Andy M.

Mad Cook said:


> I hate stainless steel pans with a passion. EVERYTHING sticks and burns...




Take a few minutes to read this thread from the beginning.  Skittles was having similar problems until she got help.  Now she cooks in SS without food's sticking.


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## no mayonnaise

Mad Cook said:


> I hate stainless steel pans with a passion. EVERYTHING sticks and burns apart from pasta, veg or anything you boil in lots of water. Put them on a high shelf to decorate your kitchen and invest in either Le Creuset or good quality (and this means expensive) aluminium ones.
> 
> (Incidentally the hoary old tale that boiling vegetables in aluminium will give you Alzheimers has long been discredited so don't worry about that.)



I got a set of two 10" aluminum pans from Sam's Club some years back and they've been my favorite pans for when I don't want to use my cast iron skillet.  Absolutely LOVE my aluminum pans, and the set of two was CHEAP.
It's been my experience that spending extra on shiny pans (All-Clad comes to mind) doesn't do much to make the food better.


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## forty_caliber

Take a few minutes to read this article about Leidenfrost Effect.  

Heat your pan as described...foods won't stick to SS.

.40


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## GotGarlic

no mayonnaise said:


> It's been my experience that spending extra on shiny pans (All-Clad comes to mind) doesn't do much to make the food better.



My experience was exactly the opposite. Cooking with my first new All-Clad pan was a revelation and a joy. I love it.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

Just remember that aliuminum skillets need to be seasoned, just like cast iron, to protect the metal from corrosion, and create a non-stick patina.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## no mayonnaise

GotGarlic said:


> My experience was exactly the opposite. Cooking with my first new All-Clad pan was a revelation and a joy. I love it.



I've got several All-Clad pans collecting dust in favor of my cast iron skillet and 10" NSF aluminum fry pans.  My Al pan looks beaten to hell and back, covered in patina inside and out.  Love it.


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## Roll_Bones

Good informative thread. 

I had similar issues with my 20 year old Calphalon anodized AL pans.  At first I was very disappointed and had buyers remorse.
SS was what most of my friends and what the chefs on TV used.  But watching short order cooks using AL pans helped me to decide on anodized AL.
I learned the hard way what was explained in this thread.

I do disagree with Chief Longwind.
AL pans must be kept spotless just like SS.  In fact the manufacturer (Calphalon) recommends using "scotch brite" pads for cleaning and there are AL cleaning pastes available for AL.
Once I learned to clean properly and cook properly on AL, my life became much easier. 
A dirty AL pan is no different than a dirty SS pan. Seasoning is not required for AL or SS as cast iron is.  A clean (spotless) pan is the only way to work with AL or SS.

My experience with AL is only with Calphalon anodized and the commercial saute pan like they use at Waffle house.  Its the pan they  make their eggs and omelet's in.

I am so glad I found this forum.  And I hope my initial brashness will be excused.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

I still maintain that according to my experience, seasoning makes aluminum pans much more friendly to work with, but not as pretty.  These sites agree:

How to Season a Pan | Pan Seasoning Guide

Seasoning Cookware

I even season my inexpensive, and lightweight aluminum camping cookware.   I'ts non-stick now.  Before I seasoned it, water stuck to the pans.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## Roll_Bones

Chief. I guess everyone has an opinion.
But I am one to follow the manufactures instructions. Calphalon recommends spotless pans for limited sticking of certain foods.
Also the anodized coating helps in this regard.

The small omelet pans (6" & 8") I have are commercial grade aluminum.  These pans have no instructions as to the care.
I keep them as clean as possible.  I can cook eggs over easy in them with no sticking.

Now, I could give these pans to someone else, and I will guarantee, they will have issues.  Sticking issues. They are used to non-stick coated pans and would be dismayed at the performance of my cookware as I was when I first started using commercial grade pans.
This is not the fault of the cookware.

I recommended Calphalon AL to my sister in law. She used them about 1/2 dozen times and gave up. She ended up offering them to me.

I am happy to have her pans and they are great. But unhappy she was unhappy.
Moral of the story.
Do not recommend commercial cookware to the novice.

BTW. All my AL pans are well worn. The anodized surface is gone. The pans are better than ever. They have evidently absorbed some cooking residue over the years and made them almost non-stick. 
This does not prevent me from scrubbing them after every use.

http://housewares.about.com/lw/Food-Drink/Cooking/How-to-Care-for-Nonstick-Cookware.htm


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

Roll_Bones said:


> Chief. I guess everyone has an opinion.
> But I am one to follow the manufactures instructions. Calphalon recommends spotless pans for limited sticking of certain foods.
> Also the anodized coating helps in this regard.
> 
> The small omelet pans (6" & 8") I have are commercial grade aluminum.  These pans have no instructions as to the care.
> I keep them as clean as possible.  I can cook eggs over easy in them with no sticking.
> 
> Now, I could give these pans to someone else, and I will guarantee, they will have issues.  Sticking issues. They are used to non-stick coated pans and would be dismayed at the performance of my cookware as I was when I first started using commercial grade pans.
> This is not the fault of the cookware.
> 
> I recommended Calphalon AL to my sister in law. She used them about 1/2 dozen times and gave up. She ended up offering them to me.
> 
> I am happy to have her pans and they are great. But unhappy she was unhappy.
> Moral of the story.
> Do not recommend commercial cookware to the novice.
> 
> BTW. All my AL pans are well worn. The anodized surface is gone. The pans are better than ever. They have evidently absorbed some cooking residue over the years and made them almost non-stick.
> This does not prevent me from scrubbing them after every use.
> 
> How to Care for Nonstick Cookware - Caring for Non-Stick Cookware & Bakeware




Aodizing is a treatment used to harden aluminum.  Only the outside surface of the pan is anodized.  We anodized the aluminum parts of the U.S. Navy's DSRV's when I worked at Lockheed, to prevent salt-water corrosion.  The inner surface is a non-stick plastic, or ceramic coating.

At one of our big-box stores, GFS, there are aluminum restaurant pans, bare aluminum, sold there.  The instructions for these pans states that the pans must be seasoned for to work right.

Non-stick coatings are not to be seasoned.  You are absolutely correct in that statement.  Bare metal, on the other hand, is supposed to be seasoned.

There are foods that when put in contact with bare aluminum, such as eggs, or asparagus, will discolor.  Seasoning the pan's cooking surface creates a barrier that will prevent this discoloration as well as prevent leaching of aluminum into acidic or alkali foods.  Though the aluminum won't hurt you, it can give an unwanted metallic flavor.

So, why again wouldn't you want to season bare aluminum cookware?

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## Mad Cook

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this but I have noticed recently that there is lots of advice that aluminium pans shouldn't be washed in the dishwasher. 

I queried this and was told it was because the detergent  ....what's the word I want?....tarnishes(?), oxidises(?) the aluminium and makes it go a dull grey colour. 

Well my mother's aluminium pans did that long before the arrival of domestic dishwashers so I think it must be the nature of the beast. 

Not sure if the above applies to anodized aluminium.


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## Andy M.

The chemicals in dishwasher detergent gives unprotected aluminum a grey/black coating.  It's not attractive.  I don't have the same issue with dish detergent.


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## KatyCooks

I have SS pans which I love.  They are the kind with a heavy copper bottom.   But I have long ago resigned myself to the fact that meat/chicken etc will stick like mad to them.   Reading this thread I was extremely sceptical that "leaving stuff alone" would be the solution to this problem, but I tried it just now (and it nearly killed me to not to get in there and start scraping!) 

And it works!  Amazingly, this is my saucepan after browning both bacon and then chicken pieces - no stuck bits and all ready for deglazing:


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## 53jgray

Skittle68 - having any luck with your pans?  I have the same problem, great pans, and everything seems to stick.  I might not be letting my oil become hot enough.  Going to attempt letting the oil become hotter  .  .  .


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

Roll-Bones;  It seems that there are two distinct camps on seasoning cast aluminum pans.  In addition, I learned something about hard anodized cookware.  I read the Calphalon care directions.  I didn't understand that the entire pan is hard anodized.  I had thought that only the outside of the pan was anodized.  The anodizing creates a barrier against food coming into contact with the base aluminum.  This makes it self-releasing as the food comes up to the proper cooked temperature, and prevents the metal from leaching into the food.

What I was talking about is bare, untreated aluminum pans.  Hence our different thoughts about proper care.  The pans I had looked at were bare aluminum, professional restaurant pans.  The pan instructions recommended seasoning the pans, as I had stated in earlier posts.

I am now in agreement with you about how to care for Calphalon, hard anodized cookware.

For bare aluminum cookware, season, and if camping and cooking over an open fire, soap the outside of the pan.

I guess we were both correct, and not looking hard enough at what the other was saying.

Oh, an I may have been around here since about the time the wheel was invented, but I still have so much to learn.  Thanks for challenging me.  I know more today than I did yesterday.  Just one more thing, I do have an engineering degree, and sometimes go into much detail to prove my points.  Just letting you know so that you know to prepare if we are to have such discussions.  I can be taught, but you may have to go deeper than a simple sentence or two.

If I go too far off the deep end, someone, usually the mods, will reign me back in.  Yeh, it's happened.  I never mean to insult, and only seek to get to factual information.  It's just who I am.

Seeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## tropical cooker

And then there is this:

What is Anodizing?

My understanding of anodizing is that it is a surface coating and not an alloy.


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## taxlady

tropical cooker said:


> And then there is this:
> 
> What is Anodizing?
> 
> My understanding of anodizing is that it is a surface coating and not an alloy.


It isn't really a coating. It is the surface, but integral with the body of the aluminium pan.


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## Roll_Bones

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> Roll-Bones;  It seems that there are two distinct camps on seasoning cast aluminum pans.  In addition, I learned something about hard anodized cookware.  I read the Calphalon care directions.  I didn't understand that the entire pan is hard anodized.  I had thought that only the outside of the pan was anodized.  The anodizing creates a barrier against food coming into contact with the base aluminum.  This makes it self-releasing as the food comes up to the proper cooked temperature, and prevents the metal from leaching into the food.
> 
> What I was talking about is bare, untreated aluminum pans.  Hence our different thoughts about proper care.  The pans I had looked at were bare aluminum, professional restaurant pans.  The pan instructions recommended seasoning the pans, as I had stated in earlier posts.
> 
> I am now in agreement with you about how to care for Calphalon, hard anodized cookware.
> 
> For bare aluminum cookware, season, and if camping and cooking over an open fire, soap the outside of the pan.
> 
> I guess we were both correct, and not looking hard enough at what the other was saying.
> 
> Oh, an I may have been around here since about the time the wheel was invented, but I still have so much to learn.  Thanks for challenging me.  I know more today than I did yesterday.  Just one more thing, I do have an engineering degree, and sometimes go into much detail to prove my points.  Just letting you know so that you know to prepare if we are to have such discussions.  I can be taught, but you may have to go deeper than a simple sentence or two.
> 
> If I go too far off the deep end, someone, usually the mods, will reign me back in.  Yeh, it's happened.  I never mean to insult, and only seek to get to factual information.  It's just who I am.
> 
> Seeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North



Chief.  Thanks for the kind words.  I too am very opinionated with an Electrical/Electronic/machanical background.  I have held plant engineering jobs over the past 35 years.  I have no degree.  But I do posses a master electrician license and mechanical contracting license for my state.

I also if you read my earlier post stated that bare AL was to be treated the same as anodized and I still stand behind that.
I use bare AL as much as I do with anodized. We scrub these pans too!.
But it is the US and we are allowed to have an opinion.

I hope you did not take anything I said to be of the negative nature.  I am very detailed as I am certain you are.
I expect a lot in my kitchen and expect superior results.  I guess I'm just hard headed!!!!

Great to finally make your acquaintance..............John


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

Roll_Bones said:


> Chief.  Thanks for the kind words.  I too am very opinionated with an Electrical/Electronic/machanical background.  I have held plant engineering jobs over the past 35 years.  I have no degree.  But I do posses a master electrician license and mechanical contracting license for my state.
> 
> I also if you read my earlier post stated that bare AL was to be treated the same as anodized and I still stand behind that.
> I use bare AL as much as I do with anodized. We scrub these pans too!.
> But it is the US and we are allowed to have an opinion.
> 
> I hope you did not take anything I said to be of the negative nature.  I am very detailed as I am certain you are.
> I expect a lot in my kitchen and expect superior results.  I guess I'm just hard headed!!!!
> 
> Great to finally make your acquaintance..............John



Naw, I didn't take anything as negative.  Ever notice that those of us with strong opinions, or who are hard headed, tend to bounce our heads together every now and again?

If scrubbing you bare aluminum gives you great results, then that's what this is all about anyway.  I'd say "Tight Lines" to you, but that's a fly fishing kind of farewell wish.  Not sure what we say in the culinary world, but I'll give it a try.  Here's wishin' your hot things are hot, cold things are cold, and your cheddar is room temperature.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## Roll_Bones

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> Naw, I didn't take anything as negative.  Ever notice that those of us with strong opinions, or who are hard headed, tend to bounce our heads together every now and again?
> 
> If scrubbing you bare aluminum gives you great results, then that's what this is all about anyway.  I'd say "Tight Lines" to you, but that's a fly fishing kind of farewell wish.  Not sure what we say in the culinary world, but I'll give it a try.  Here's wishin' your hot things are hot, cold things are cold, and your cheddar is room temperature.
> 
> Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North



Well said Chief. Look forward to many more fruitful discussions.  Best regards...John

Oh....I can spell mechanical! LOL


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## Skittle68

53jgray said:


> Skittle68 - having any luck with your pans?  I have the same problem, great pans, and everything seems to stick.  I might not be letting my oil become hot enough.  Going to attempt letting the oil become hotter  .  .  .



With some practice, the SS pans and I are getting along much better!! It's possible you aren't letting the oil heat up enough, and if I find something is sticking, turning the heat down usually helps release it. If drops of water skitter around in the pan, it is the right temperature. Too cool, and the water will just boil. Too hot, and the water will vaporize and disappear instantly. If it rolls around and takes longer to evaporate than it would otherwise, it should be just right. It's a phenomenon called the Leidenfrost effect. A layer of vapor insulates the bead of water from the surface of the hot pan, preventing it from going into a rapid boil right away. Something similar protects your good from sticking. If you have ever seen someone stick their hand into a bucket of liquid nitrogen, they are using the same concept.


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## taxlady

Skittle, that's the test I was taught for pancakes. So, that's a good temp for meat too?


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## Roll_Bones

Practice makes perfect!


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## Skittle68

taxlady said:


> Skittle, that's the test I was taught for pancakes. So, that's a good temp for meat too?



That's what I use for just about everything. For meat and eggs, I get it to that temp, put meat/eggs in the pan, then turn it down when I want it to release. When frying eggs I turn the temp down to simmer immediately, then flip after a minute and a half. They are always ready to loosen and release at that time. Meat I wait maybe a min at that temp to get a good sear before I turn it down a few notches. I only use a few drops of oil that I wipe around with a paper towel, and I hardly every have issues with stickage anymore.


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## bbobson

Skittle68 said:


> If drops of water skitter around in the pan, it is the right temperature. Too cool, and the water will just boil. Too hot, and the water will vaporize and disappear instantly. If it rolls around and takes longer to evaporate than it would otherwise, it should be just right.



Thanks, that is something I had forgotten about over the years.  To be honest, until a couple days ago I didn't realize how hot oil or a pan on the stovetop could get.  I was trying to make falafel (w/ some success) from a mix, the instructions said to heat the oil to 375 degrees.  Oh, that's hot.  Just before I started the actual frying I though maybe I should check the temp of the oil.  Oh, OH!  That's really  hot.  Four hundred fifty and climbing, I decided to wait for the oil to cool for a bit.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

One last bit of knowledge on this topic;  In the first few pages of the thread, there was a youtube video of a person cooking a piece of meat.  The meat released beautifully, and was cooked on both sides after the cook was done.  I call your attention to a close up shot of the video, where you see juices start to weep from the meat.  It is those juices, and blood that actually form the fond.  To demonstrate this, next time you remove a piece of beef, chicken, or pork from its packaging, make sure the pan is at the proper temperature, and is lubricated with a little oil.  Drip some or even all of the packaged meat juice into the pan.  Now watch it solidify and brown.  Add a little salt, and when the fond is dark brown, add a deglazing liquid (I simply use water) and watch the fond release from the pan and dissolve into the water to make a flavorful broth.

I've found that when done right, the meat tissue doesn't actually stick to the pan.  But the meat juices, which contain sugars, does.

When I make hash browns in my stainless Steel, or crepe's, they don't stick at all, and will literally slide across the pan from the moment they hit the hot metal.  You know that ball of water that behave like mercury, the moisture in the food turns immediate into tiny water balls and act like little ball bearings.  The trick here is to use a pan with enough thermal mass that it doesn't cool down rapidly when the food is added.

Ok, that'a all for now.  May your hot food be hot, your cold food be cold, and your cheddar be at room temperature.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## RPCookin

The same procedure works for enameled cast iron like my 2 Dutch ovens are.  I made country style ribs today for my father-in-law in my 5 quart pot, seasoned and browned first in two batches, then braised in the oven for a couple of hours.  The browning process works flawlessly as long as the pan and oil are hot before adding the meat.  If not, you end up with a stuck mess.  

I also have 2 stainless steel pans (one inexpensive Calphalon with a disk bottom, and one Kitchen Aid that came as a free gift when I bought my KA food processor), and both work equally well as long as the procedure is followed.  I confess that I don't do eggs in them, for that I still believe strongly in a good nonstick pan.

This site is another one that takes out the technicality and just speaks cook to cook.  I encourage anyone to experiment with some inexpensive meat until you get it right.  Once you do, it's a revelation.  And the simple pan sauces that you can make with the left behind fond when you have properly browned your meat make the effort very worthwhile.


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## buckytom

Roll_Bones said:


> I guess I'm hard headed.



that's from eating aluminum...


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## buckytom

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> Not sure what we say in the culinary world, but I'll give it a try.  Here's wishin' your hot things are hot, cold things are cold, and your cheddar is room temperature.
> 
> Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North



darn, i was hoping you were going to quote homer.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

buckytom said:


> darn, i was hoping you were going to quote homer.



Ok, I'll bite.  What would Homer Say, and are we talking about the famous Greek writer, or Mr. Simpson (as if I couldn't guess)?

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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