# Need help making bread



## pacanis (Nov 29, 2007)

I figured I'd move my request here, since it is bread specific 

I would like to get a breadmaker and the appropriate pans, sheets (whatever they're called) to make regular loaf bread. I'll assume the breadmaker does this by default. I'd like to make hotdog and hamburg buns, Italian bread and kaiser rolls, too.  Maybe hamburg rolls and kaiser rolls use the same form/pan, but are different ingredients?
I went to the grocery store today and got some bread flour and a couple boxes of banana bread that shows them being made as muffins, but I'm guessing I can make them as a loaf whenever I get the bread machine. At least they are the brand Krusteaz, which I was told is good. I could not find any boxed mixes for just regular bread.  I also could not find yeast anywhere in the flour aisle and did not have the time to track someone down, so looks like I need to go back for that.  Do I need to get vegetable oil, also, or will EVOO  work?  I just have two types of oil right now, EVOO and peanut oil for the deepfryer, but the banana bread box said vegetable oil.

Not knowing a thing about breadmakers I'll guess this one is OK?  It has five stars anyway. Amazon.com: Breadman TR875 Breadmaker, 2 LB.: Home & Garden  Overkill?  Underkill?  I don't want to get something _too_ complicated  or pricey.
I can't seem to locate any bun forms on their website. Do you have to form them by hand maybe?

Any help and suggestions on what I need or should start with would really be appreciated.


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## CharlieD (Nov 29, 2007)

Wiliam & Sonoma here has bread making on Saturdays. I'd say go check them out. I love visual presentations, make so much more sence to me.


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## pacanis (Nov 29, 2007)

Is that a store, Charlie?  I'm a home body 
Seriously, I'd rather buy my stuff online. It'll take an hour of my life just to go back to the grocery store for the yeast and if I need vegetable oil.  I've never heard of them, but that doesn't mean there isn't one around here somewhere if it comes to that.

Ackkk, the mall during shopping season


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## Dave Hutchins (Nov 29, 2007)

Hamburger buns, hot dog buns require a soft roll. Kaiser rolls require a crispy crust
two different critters..I would share but all of my formulas are for 15=20 pounds of flour
and much water etc. lots of luck with your baking. try it by hand and forget your bread machine. take out all of your frustrations, anger on the dough it like to be kneeded.  As for oil evoo will work just fine,  save a trip to the mkt.


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## pacanis (Nov 29, 2007)

If I have to make the stuff by hand it'll never get done! Taking out my frustrations aside, I'd rather dump the stuff in a machine, close the lid and kick back while the bread maker does the work.


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## bethzaring (Nov 29, 2007)

i buy my yeast online, at King Arthur Flour and keep it in the freezer.

banana bread in a bread machine?? I would think that is a quick bread? just stir together, plop in a pan and bake in the oven?

i shape hot dog and hamburger buns by hand and bake on a cookie sheet, after the bread machine kneads and rises the dough.

I have a Zojirushi and I bake my bread in a loaf pan in the oven, again, after the machine kneads and rises the dough.


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## VeraBlue (Nov 29, 2007)

You won't be able to make authentic french or italian bread with a bread machine.  That type of dough requires 2 days of prep work.  I've never seen a bread machine that is capable of those steps.  Since Kaiser rolls are quite close to french bread, I doubt a machine could produce something similar, too.

It's tempting to buy bread machines when you have a desire for good warm bread.  They save all the trouble and guesswork...but are so very limiting.  A good kitchen aid and a timer are equally as versatile, but with endless possibilities.


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## jennyema (Nov 29, 2007)

I agree that a bread machine is unnecessary, especially if you have a stand mixer.

Personally I don't think bread from a mix and a bread machine tastes any better than store bought.  I'd urge you to make your bread with flour, yeast, water and love.

With that in mind, I'd tell you to peruse the King Arthur Flour website.  They have everything.

Yeast can be found in the refrigerated section.  Sometimes by the pop-a-can rolls and sometimes in weird places like by the pickles or yogurt or butter.

As others have said, you are describing a few quite different types of bread which require difft ingredients and equipment.  Maybe find a book that describes basic breadmaking or consult the KAF site for help or other resources.

*Also, I'd VERY HIGHLY recommend making the Bittman/NYTimes no-knead bread as your first project.*


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## miniman (Nov 29, 2007)

I make bread from scratch without a breadmaker. I use my Kenwood chef to mix the dough and then let it rise in bowls and form it for baking. I make a general bread of one and half pounds of strong bread flour (Either plain white or two thirds white, 1 third wholemeal), two teaspoons yeast, 2 teaspoons salt, 3 tablespoons oil and approx 370ml warm water. 

We also used have several wonderful bread books giving recipes for all the different kinds of bread, look on Amazon it will give some ideas.


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## Katie H (Nov 29, 2007)

Pacanis, you don't need special "mixes" for bread.  You will just be spending extra money for the same ingredients you can find on your market shelves.

Like beth, I buy my yeast (in 1-pound packages) from the nice folks at King Arthur Flour Baker's Catalogue.  I, too, keep it in the freezer.  Buying it this way gives me quality yeast at a more than reasonable price.  Those little 3-envelope packages in the market are too expensive for me in the quantity I need since I make all our bread products.

I use my bread machine(s) - I have 2 - to knead the dough and put it through the first rise.  I began doing this many years ago because the arthritis and carpal tunnel syndrome in my right hand made kneading next to impossible and more than a little painful.  The folks at King Arthur Flour also endorse using a bread machine for the kneading.  They say the machine produces  better kneading than our hands can.

I also use an electronic scale for all my baking and most of my cooking.  I don't know what I would do without my trusty little scale.  No guesswork when it comes to humid or dry days.  Flour is like a sponge, it will absorb moisture and will dry out, depending on the weather.  Weighing it eliminates having to worry about that.

The "pans" I have in my baking pantry include a variety of glass loaf pans.  I prefer to bake my standard loaves in glass.  Others swear by metal.  Just personal preference.

I also have a perforated Italian bread pan and a perforated baguette pan, large and small hamburger bun pans, pain de mie (pullman loaf) pans in two sizes, plenty of baking sheets, 8 English muffin rings, and a 16-inch clay flowerpot undersaucer that I use upside down in the oven like a baking stone for making artisan-type breads.  There are other pans/tools that I'm sure I'm forgetting, but this gives you an idea of what's on my shelves.  Bear in mind, though, I make all the bread Buck and I eat.  Haven't bought commercially- or bakery-produced bread in too many years to remember.

And, I can't leave out my trusty cast-iron skillet for making cornbread, but cornbread is a quick bread.  Most of the time.  I do have a recipe for cornbread that includes yeast.

I, too, am a bit puzzled about your reference to banana bread in a bread machine.  I've never made it in a machine because, as beth said, it is usually classified as a quick bread.


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## pacanis (Nov 29, 2007)

OK, first to clear up the banana bread thing. I'm sure most of you saw what Fisher's mom wrote under "appliances" when giving me advice on starting out making bread. It was:

"When you get a bread maker, buy a box of Krusteez country white bread mix and make sure you have a measuring cup with good markings and a food thermometer. The only big thing you can mess up in baking yeast breads is the measurements and the temps. With a box mix, everything comes in it and all you add is water. The temp is very important for the yeast to activate properly. The reason I say get a box first is that while you will eventually make much more spectacular breads, this is instant success and it will get you hooked. There are other brands of mixes but some are dreadful IMO. The only one I remember that is good and available everywhere is Krusteez. Maybe the others here will be able to recommend other brands."

Well I couldn't find Krusteaz country white bread mix. And I like banana bread and have seen it come in loaves, so I bought some Krusteaz banana bread. What do I know  I had already spent too much time trying to find help and/or the yeast and at least the box said Krusteaz  My bad.

I don't have either a mixer or a stand mixer and would really like to go the bread machine route. At least for my first attempt at becoming self-sufficient at never having to buy store bought bread again. 
Trust me, if I have to get out a rolling pin or knead dough or throw flour down on my counter and generally make a big mess and have lots of stuff to clean, I will not enjoy "making" my own bread . I will definitely keep the stand mixer and hand kneading in mind if I find myself too limited with a bread machine and appreciate your input.

I'll google up King Arthur and see if they have a website. Maybe I can get some of my pans from them if they have them. The flour I bought said King Arthur, so I must have done something right in the grocery store today. I had no idea yeast was a refrigerated item. I might as well order that online from them since I'm ordering the bread machine..... That one I posted the link to is OK then? Does it make any difference if the loaf is horizontal or vertical really? This one was horizontal, but I don't know.....

Katie E: Why don't you bake your loaves in your machine? Do they come out better done in the oven?

Oh, what about the vegetable oil? Do I need to get some? EVOO OK?

Thanks for all the input!


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## Katie H (Nov 29, 2007)

pacanis said:


> Katie E: Why don't you bake your loaves in your machine? Do they come out better done in the oven?
> 
> Oh, what about the vegetable oil? Do I need to get some? EVOO OK?
> 
> Thanks for all the input!



I don't bake my loaves in the machine because I have adjusted my regular 4-loaf "by hand" recipe to make 2 loaves in the machine, sans baking in it.  I don't like the shape of the bread machine bread - horizontal or otherwise - and I don't care for the "belly button" that the bread paddle(s) make in the underside of the loaf.  I much prefer a more traditional loaf baked in a pan, in the oven.

Some breads use, vegetable shortening (read this Crisco - non-butter flavor), others use butter or oil, so I'd recommend reading some recipes to see what you should have on your pantry shelves.  I have vegetable shortening, butter, olive oil and canola oil on my shelves.

Yes, the King Arthur folks have a website and, beware, their baking "toys" will make you drool.  I got both my perforated pans, a pain de mie pan and my English muffin rings from them.  However, you can use 8 ounce pineapple cans with both top and bottom removed for English muffin rings.  I have 8 of those, too.

King Arthur also has a baking hotline with professional bakers available, at no charge, to help with your baking questions, etc.  They are extremely cordial and helpful.  They would be a good resource for you as a beginner.  The only stupid questions are those you don't ask and they are there to answer questions.


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## justplainbill (Nov 29, 2007)

Are there any 'decent' bakeries that make their bread in 'bread machine's?


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## Katie H (Nov 29, 2007)

Actually, bill, the way I utilize my bread machine isn't "making" bread in it.  I use it as a kneading tool and take advantage of it's ability to put my dough through the first rise stage.  After that, the rest is up to me and my oven.

Although, I have used it only to knead, which is what I did with my Thanksgiving dinner rolls, which are made from a refrigerator dough and don't go through a heated first rise.


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## jet (Nov 29, 2007)

I have used a Cuisinart bread machine for over a year, and would not want to go back to purchased bread.   So far, I have made my bread start-to-finish in the machine but I recently purchased a loaf pan and plan on making some brioche (the machine will make the dough but it then requires additional steps).  A standard loaf of bread includes kitchen staples (butter, sugar, flour, etc) and yeast, so I do not see why you would want to buy a mix.

  My machine makes horizontal loaves.  What I do not like about that is the fact the slices for a 1 lb loaf are smaller than the 2 lb loaf.  In a vertical machine, it will simply change the number of slices.  

Also, some machines will preheat the water for you, while others require you to measure the temperature.


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## pacanis (Nov 29, 2007)

jet said:


> My machine makes horizontal loaves. What I do not like about that is the fact the slices for a 1 lb loaf are smaller than the 2 lb loaf. In a vertical machine, it will simply change the number of slices.


 
Thanks for reply, jet.
Are you saying the vertical loaf machines are the better ones?


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## jet (Nov 29, 2007)

pacanis said:


> Thanks for reply, jet.
> Are you saying the vertical loaf machines are the better ones?



All else being equal, I would choose the vertical loaf machine.


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## jennyema (Nov 30, 2007)

Please consider the NYTimes/Bittman no knead bread recipe.  It's almost as easy as a bread machine and the results are fantastic.


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## pacanis (Nov 30, 2007)

Once I get going I can't wait to try different recipes, jennyema.

I ordered the maker I posted the link to at Amazon this morning and some stuff from King Arthurs; yeast, dry milk (didn't even know there was such a thing), pan, parchment paper, cooling racks, couche (sp?). The woman on the phone was very helpful and some things I thought I needed like that Italian loaf perforated thing she said I didn't need. She walked me through a bunch of stuff on their website too, complete with pictures  that should give me some idea of what I'm doing. She told me what "covered" means too for when the receipe calls for that. I had no idea. I would have thrown a dish towell over the dough 

Now there's nothing to do but wait for the UPS guy to pull in my drive


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## jennyema (Nov 30, 2007)

You can buy dry milk at the supermarket for pennies.  You can also just use regular milk.

From all the stuff you got from them, you already are planning to try different recipes.  

My point is only that it is a very, very simple recipe with hardly any work involved that generates a much better loaf than a bread machine.


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## jennyema (Nov 30, 2007)

I have also heard good things about this recipe, which is like the Bittman recipe in that it requires nothing more than mixing water, flour and yeast together.  But it takes a fraction of the time.

I'm going to make it this weekend.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/21/dining/211brex.html


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