# What would you have done?



## velochic (Jul 15, 2011)

This happened a while back.  After some errands, I had a short window of time (around 2pm) to grab lunch before heading on to my p/t job.  We don't eat fast food at all, so my fastest choices were still sit-down restaurants.  I had only $10 cash on me, but I had a gift card from x-mas for a chain rib place.

To make a long story short, the server took over 5 minutes to just greet me and ask for my drink order (I ordered my meal at the same time), forgot my rolls (brought them with my meal, which was an appetizer selection), forgot a condiment I asked for, failed to refill my water (I had to ask another server), my rib basket took f.o.r.e.v.e.r to come out (and they were not hot... but not cold, either) and the server was generally not to be found to ask for anything.  There were perhaps 5 occupied tables in the whole place. NOT a busy time.

I had been finished for a really long time and finally I went to the hostess stand to ask for my check. When I got the check,  I put my gift card in the check holder and waited for my waiter.  And waited, and waited, and waited.  Angry at this horrible service, I finally just said, "Forget this, I'm already late for work", took the card out and put in the $10... for the $9.80 bill.  JUST as I was doing this, the waiter appeared.  I told him, "I waited for everything for this meal."  He said, "Sorry, it was the end of my shift and I had other work to complete."  I said, "Well, I'm sorry about your tip."  And I left.

I feel bad, knowing this guy lost money on my meal, but dang, it just was beyond ridiculous service!!  For future reference, I'm wondering what others' thoughts are on this.  Is there *ever* justification for no/little tip?  Did I let my anger get the best of my principles?


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## Andy M. (Jul 15, 2011)

You did exactly what I would have done.  

The waiter gave your service a lower priority than other work and lost because of it.  Considering you were a paying customer and his other work was probably not customer related, it was a thoughtless choice that he should have paid for.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jul 15, 2011)

You have way more patience than I would have.  He would have been hearing about much earlier.

The other work is for down times...not when you have a customer at a table, they come first.


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## merstar (Jul 15, 2011)

You were absolutely 100% justified. Why should you pay for service you didn't get? Good for you!!


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## Alix (Jul 15, 2011)

I agree with what everyone has already said. A good tip is for good service. Crappy service = crappy tip. I'm sorry you had such a crummy experience.


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## PattY1 (Jul 15, 2011)

I would have done the same thing with out guilt. *T*.o *I*.nsure *P*.rompt *S*.ervice.
Tipping is usually optional. However a lot restaurants tax the wait staff's pay on what ever percentage rate is considered fair based on the total bill. They also pay a really low wage. Waitresses and Waiters know this and SHOULD preform their job accordingly. The sad part is that a lot of them don't learn from being stiffed.


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## velochic (Jul 16, 2011)

Thank you for the reassurances that I wasn't a total jerk and that it was justified.  I was second-guessing myself.


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## Selkie (Jul 16, 2011)

You did good!


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## purple.alien.giraffe (Jul 16, 2011)

I use a tiered scale for tips. 25% for exceptional service, more if have extra cash and have received exceptional service repeatedly from the same server, down to nothing and a complaint to the manager for extremely poor service. In this case, the only thing I would have done differently was file a complaint with whoever was supervising the shift. As soon as he used the excuse that it was the end of his shift he basically admitted his time was more important than yours, which is a big no no in customer service. I'm generally pretty lenient with customer service folk because I get that the job can be stressful and anyone can have an off day, but this was way beyond an off day.


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## Katie H (Jul 16, 2011)

You have nothing to feel guilty about.  I would've done the same thing.

Unfortunately, the server was stupid for openly admitting to you that something else was more important than ensuring that you had a pleasant dining experience.  Having said that, I have my doubts that the payment you left made much of an impression on the server.


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## Snip 13 (Jul 16, 2011)

I have a rule, if the service is bad I give 5% of my bill in tip and when it's good 20%.
Service is not always bad because of lazy waiters, sometimes they just don't know what they are doing. I don't punish dumb waiters, it's not their fault all the time. Just use your own judgement. If the waiter is intelligent and still useless don't tip and if you can see they are waiting on tables because they are not intelligent enough to get a decent job have some mercy!


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## Timothy (Jul 16, 2011)

I don't leave tips unless the service was more than expected. Period. A tip is for service ABOVE AND BEYOND normal, expected service. It's not part of the bill. It's not for average service, IMHO.

When service is above the expected, I leave a 20% tip. I leave the tip in cash and never include it into any credit transaction. This may sound overly stern to some of you, but when eating in any restaurant, I expect a minimum of service. That service is what the worker, (the server), should perform for each and every customer that comes into the restaurant. Attention, promptness, politeness, and true caring (which you can tell by how the server acts), all make tipping worthwhile. Absence of these actions makes NO tip happen with me and usually accompanies a talk with the manager about his staff. 

I've worked in several restaurants. I know what is expected by management of their staff as *Normal* service. This normal service is not what tips are for. Tips are earned, not expected. No earning of a tip; no tip at all.

Servers that expect a tip for normal service might consider a job as a carpenter or something. Professional servers know how to earn a tip. I've worked with many. A waitress I once worked with at the Washingtonian Restaurant and Country Club, named Betty, was a non-stop, perfect waitress. She was clean, polite, courteous, exact in delivering orders, no excuses and never needed any. Even at rush hour, she worked at light-speed and did her job perfectly. I never saw her kicking back and having a discussion with other employees while she had customers. She made eye-contact with each of her customers about once a minute. NO one ever had to wait for her service. This was in the 70's, and she made 30-50 dollars a night in tips. No one could match her tips. I've just explained why.

When I see a waiter or waitress of mine, hanging out in the serving area with other staff, laughing and chatting while I'm trying to get their attention for 5 minutes, I go to the manager and ask for a different server. One who cares if I have service or not. That lets the manager know who his/her goof-offs are and either improves the servers professionalism or releases them for other types of work. I don't care which. I'm there for good food and good service. I insist on both.


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## Snip 13 (Jul 16, 2011)

Timothy said:


> I don't leave tips unless the service was more than expected. Period. A tip is for service ABOVE AND BEYOND normal, expected service. It's not part of the bill. It's not for average service, IMHO.
> 
> When service is above the expected, I leave a 20% tip. I leave the tip in cash and never include it into any credit transaction. This may sound overly stern to some of you, but when eating in any restaurant, I expect a minimum of service. That service is what the worker, (the server), should perform for each and every customer that comes into the restaurant. Attention, promptness, politeness, and true caring (which you can tell by how the server acts), all make tipping worthwhile. Absence of these actions makes NO tip happen with me and usually accompanies a talk with the manager about his staff.
> 
> ...



I worked as a waitress, barlady, cook etc. in restaurants while studying and I agree we need good servers! Just bare in mind if you ever go to South Africa, servers in our country work on tips alone and don't get paid a salary. It's not right in my opinion to leave no tip at all.


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## Dawgluver (Jul 16, 2011)

Snip 13 said:
			
		

> I worked as a waitress, barlady, cook etc. in restaurants while studying and I agree we need good servers! Just bare in mind if you ever go to South Africa, servers in our country work on tips alone and don't get paid a salary. It's not right in my opinion to leave no tip at all.



I would agree.  When I was a bartender years ago, servers were paid below minimum wage and relied on tips.  I also agree that one tips according to service.  

I remember a friend and I, many years ago during a road trip, stopping at a diner in a very small town.  We finished our meal, paid the bill, and left a few dollars.  The waitress ran after us as we left, calling "Girls!  Girls!  You forgot your money!".  We explained that where we came from, that was a tip!  Apparently not the custom there.


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## Timothy (Jul 16, 2011)

Snip 13 said:


> I worked as a waitress, barlady, cook etc. in restaurants while studying and I agree we need good servers! Just bare in mind if you ever go to South Africa, servers in our country work on tips alone and don't get paid a salary. It's not right in my opinion to leave no tip at all.


 
I understand. When you are presented with service that is below that which is expected as "normal service", such as not being able to find your server for extended times, PLUS not being served the correct items as you ordered and in the proper serving order, PLUS having a server with an improper, impolite or rude bearing, what then would you consider a proper tip? They have failed to even DO thier job. I would feel at that point, NO tip equals what they have earned in their job. 

Let's say you hired someone to cut the grass in your yard. The person shows up very late, leaves broad areas of uncut grass and takes two weeks to finish the yard. Would you still pay them? I wouldn't. 

That is how I see a server who feels that chatting with their buddies in the serving area, bringing the wrong items or even not bringing items I ordered and having to wait 5 minutes each time for them to even show themselves. They haven't done their job. They've insulted me as a customer and have shown me that they don't even care if I like it or not.  

Regardless if they recieve pay or not, they surely won't recieve a tip from me. If they starve to death, it will be as a direct result of their own actions, not mine.

I feel very strongly about work ethics. Could you tell?


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## Snip 13 (Jul 16, 2011)

Dawgluver said:


> I would agree.  When I was a bartender years ago, servers were paid below minimum wage and relied on tips.  I also agree that one tips according to service.
> 
> I remember a friend and I, many years ago during a road trip, stopping at a diner in a very small town.  We finished our meal, paid the bill, and left a few dollars.  The waitress ran after us as we left, calling "Girls!  Girls!  You forgot your money!".  We explained that where we came from, that was a tip!  Apparently not the custom there.



A lot of servers get paid badly or not at all, it's a horrible feeling to go home at the end of a shift after working like a dog and having nothing to show for it!
I gave a young guy that served us a R200 tip one Christmas and he started crying and hugged me! Poor guy was running up and down all day and I noticed how rude some people were for no reason at all and it was Christmas day! He was as helpful and polite as can be expected in his situation.


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## Timothy (Jul 16, 2011)

Snip 13 said:


> A lot of servers get paid badly or not at all, it's a horrible feeling to go home at the end of a shift after working like a dog and having nothing to show for it!


 
If a server works hard and is attentive to me and my order, I have been known to tip as much as 50% for outstanding service. I don't mean to sound like "Mr. Hard-Azz", but I tip according to effort. No effort, no tip.

I seldom go out to eat on holidays because it's like asking for moderate service. Places are usually over-crowded and the staff are famous for calling in sick to gain the day off. Those who remain are over-worked with crowds backed out the doors. The times I've gone out on those days, I've been disappointed in the outcome. I stay home and eat a meal of my own.


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## Snip 13 (Jul 16, 2011)

Timothy said:


> If a server works hard and is attentive to me and my order, I have been known to tip as much as 50% for outstanding service. I don't mean to sound like "Mr. Hard-Azz", but I tip according to effort. No effort, no tip.
> 
> I seldom go out to eat on holidays because it's like asking for moderate service. Places are usually over-crowded and the staff are famous for calling in sick to gain the day off. Those who remain are over-worked with crowds backed out the doors. The times I've gone out on those days, I've been disappointed in the outcome. I stay home and eat a meal of my own.



Not calling you a Hard Arse  Just saying that you must bare in mind if you come to SA that the servers don't get paid here and a lot of them are not the "brightest pencils in the box" lol! I also tip according to service and if someone is rude to me I won't tip but if they are trying but not succeeding at what they do I will leave something for them 
I have just seen many people that treat servers badly for no reason and some people are just full of you know what!


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## Dawgluver (Jul 16, 2011)

There was an old custom of leaving two pennies on the table to show your disapproval of the service.


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## Timothy (Jul 16, 2011)

Snip 13 said:


> Not calling you a Hard Arse  Just saying that you must bare in mind if you come to SA that the servers don't get paid here and a lot of them are not the "brightest pencils in the box" lol! I also tip according to service and if someone is rude to me I won't tip but if they are trying but not succeeding at what they do I will leave something for them
> I have just seen many people that treat servers badly for no reason and some people are just full of you know what!


Ha! I understand completely!

I remember having "off" days, where perhaps a tray of glass-ware would somehow take a dive onto the floor from my grasp, and devil-clones seemed to occupy every table I had. I once had a customer abruptly back his chair from the table and into me while I had a serving tray with 8 plates of food held high above. The tray went into the middle of his table loudly, and I went on my butt in the aisle. No one was happy about that exchange, and they had the compassion to leave me a great tip.

I recently went to "Outback Steak House" and the couple behind my table ABUSED the poor young lady who was also my server. It was the worst example of server abuse I've ever witnessed and I went to the manager and explained it to him. He replaced the server himself, got the same abuse and ended up insisting that the couple leave. I was proud of him!

If true effort is applied and even a tiny amount of "Above and Beyond" service is received, I tip a minimum of 20%.


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## Snip 13 (Jul 16, 2011)

Timothy said:


> Ha! I understand completely!
> 
> I remember having "off" days, where perhaps a tray of glass-ware would somehow take a dive onto the floor from my grasp, and devil-clones seemed to occupy every table I had. I once had a customer abruptly back his chair from the table and into me while I had a serving tray with 8 plates of food held high above. The tray went into the middle of his table loudly, and I went on my butt in the aisle. No one was happy about that exchange, and they had the compassion to leave me a great tip.
> 
> ...



I had an African man as a customer once that kept making rude sexual remarks and pouring his beer on the table for me to wipe up, I was just 17 at the time. I just carried on being polite and smiling until he actually touched my bum. I told him where he could go and shove his behaviour and said some awful things then stormed into my bosses office. I told her what happened and that I'll be leaving since she's probably going to sack me anyway but instead she went over to his table and told him that if he ever showed his face in her restaurant again she'll have him forcefully removed!
I was really grateful for this since I needed the job to pay for my studies.
Thank goodness she was a good woman


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jul 16, 2011)

Timid and meek as I am...once I stood up and waved a $20 bill in the air, yelling out, "Does anyone work here?"  The restaurant had become a desert as soon as we were seated.


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## Timothy (Jul 16, 2011)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> Timid and meek as I am...once I stood up and waved a $20 bill in the air, yelling out, "Does anyone work here?" The restaurant had become a desert as soon as we were seated.


 
I wonder if anyone would have shown up if you had shouted:

"Quick, where is the cash register?"


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## Alix (Jul 16, 2011)

Snip 13 said:


> "brightest pencils in the box"



Holy crap. I laughed so hard at this I nearly hurt myself. EXCELLENT combo. I'm adding that one to our repertoire.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jul 16, 2011)

Timothy said:


> I wonder if anyone would have shown up if you had shouted:
> 
> "Quick, where is the cash register?"



I'll try that one next...I need to find my "Hell's Grannies" jacket...


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jul 16, 2011)

Alix said:


> Holy crap. I laughed so hard at this I nearly hurt myself. EXCELLENT combo. I'm adding that one to our repertoire.




My favorite is "Two fries short of a Happy meal."


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## Dawgluver (Jul 16, 2011)

PrincessFiona60 said:
			
		

> My favorite is "Two fries short of a Happy meal."



Lol!  

Not the sharpest knife in the drawer,not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, one brick short of a load, has a screw loose, not the sharpest pencil in the box, dumb as a post.

All psychological terms.


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## MSC (Jul 16, 2011)

Yes you did the right thing, and don't think you should have any qualms about it.  Albeit that's apocryphal that "TIP" is an acronym for "to insure promptness" it's still come to mean something that is left for "service", and as you didn't get any...QED.


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## Timothy (Jul 16, 2011)

Dawgluver said:


> Not the sharpest knife in the drawer,not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, one brick short of a load, has a screw loose, not the sharpest pencil in the box, dumb as a post.


 
A mind like a box of rocks, dumb as a piece of burnt firewood, Elevator doesn't make it to the top floor, two cans short of a six pack...


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## Alix (Jul 16, 2011)

I love all of those, but I love the combos best. (Brightest lightbulb in the lamp + sharpest pencil in the box = brightest pencil in the box!) My youngest coined one a while ago and we all adopted it...of course now that I've laughed so hard at this one I can't think of the one she put together!


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## Snip 13 (Jul 16, 2011)

Dawgluver said:


> Lol!
> 
> Not the sharpest knife in the drawer,not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, one brick short of a load, has a screw loose, not the sharpest pencil in the box, dumb as a post.
> 
> All psychological terms.



Or sharpest tool in the shed..lol!
My favourite is "you're a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic"


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## Alix (Jul 16, 2011)

A few ants short of a picnic 
Elevator doesn't go to the top floor
Few bricks short of a load


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## Snip 13 (Jul 16, 2011)

Funny how we always change the subject in threads, sometimes I have to go check what the thread was about in the first place..lol!


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## simonbaker (Jul 16, 2011)

No service=No tip.  Good judgement on your part.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jul 16, 2011)

Snip 13 said:


> Funny how we always change the subject in threads, sometimes I have to go check what the thread was about in the first place..lol!



We be the CCC carrying on at the DC.

CCC= Coffee Clatch Crowd


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## pacanis (Jul 16, 2011)

The only thing I would have done differently is; If I'm already at the hostess stand asking for my check, that's where I take care of it and walk out the door.


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## babetoo (Jul 16, 2011)

i agree with tim, if they aren't paid enough to enough for  their needs , then choose to give lousy service, they need to find another job. i usually will inform the manager.

another bad service scene is checking out at a store.the cashier makes no eye contact with me and is talking to another buddy. i speak up . i tell them that i am the one with the money. if they make a bad impression i will not shop at that store. then the store will lay off people when sales aren't good. and they won't have a job at all.

i managed in retail for many years. in training new employees i would tell them, nothing (short of a fire or a hold-up) is more important than the customer in front of them. on the other hand, i always stood up for an employee if the customer was just being mean to them. sometimes when i speak up and give the lecture the people with me are  embrassed.we have become people that allow bad service to flourish, because we don't speak up. 

so guess i am an old meanie, as well as tim.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jul 16, 2011)

I never allow abuse, no matter which side of the counter I am standing.  I've even kicked family members off my unit if they are abusing my staff or their "loved one."


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## Timothy (Jul 16, 2011)

babetoo said:


> i agree with tim, if they aren't paid enough to enough for their needs , then choose to give lousy service, they need to find another job. i usually will inform the manager.
> 
> another bad service scene is checking out at a store.the cashier makes no eye contact with me and is talking to another buddy. i speak up . i tell them that i am the one with the money.
> 
> so guess i am an old meanie, as well as tim.


 
You, you, you, you old meanie! Big ole meanie!


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## joesfolk (Jul 16, 2011)

Almost 40 years ago I was a young waitress.  In those days our paychecks were next to nothing so we knew better than to give poor service.  But in those days when a customer recieved poor service they would leave a one penny tip.  This told the waitress that she had done a poor job and left no doubt that she was not being stiffed by a customer who is just too cheap to tip.   But I doubt that today a server would have any idea what it means.


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## GrillingFool (Jul 16, 2011)

Fascinating! I agree completely that tips should be an expression of appreciation for good service!

On another message board I frequent (non-cooking), there was a long thread about tipping 
in general. I was VERY surprised to see that most of the people there consider tipping to
be somewhat of a "required" part of life. Most of them always tipped at restaurants.. regardless
of the quality of service, and didn't lower the amount by more than 5%. 
And WHO they tipped... Sonic car jockeys.... the trash takers... postal delivery person...
the list went on and on and on...
They felt that the workers made such a terrible wage that they HAD to tip. ppppft.

Not me. I've waited tables, and I know that even the mediocre waitpeople make a decent wage,
if the restaurant has steady clientele. And for other workers, well it's their job, why should I tip
them?

I tend to write my displeasure on the credit card slip after I sign it, explaining why the tip was 
low or non-existent.


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