# Italian meat balls that were not so Italian.



## CharlieD (Nov 6, 2007)

I made spaghetti and meat balls for the first time yesterday. Not that I’ve never made meat balls before, but the idea was to make Italian meatballs. I don’t think they really turn out Italian, but I have to say they turn out to be very soft and very tasty. I bet my seasoning was off. But unlike all those times I had meatballs in Italian restaurant and hated them this time I like them a lot. Need to get my seasoning strait. What kind of seasoning do you use for Italian meatballs?


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## Rom (Nov 6, 2007)

- fresh garlic, parsley, grated parmesan cheese, breadcrumbs, eggs and a bit of salt, mix all together and then mix in the mince, i use lamb. my bf LOVES these and cannot eat enough

-i then lightly fry them in evoo before i put them in the sauce, just on the outside


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## CharlieD (Nov 6, 2007)

Pretty much what I did, no cheese, can't mix meat and dairy products together. Otherwise that is what I did.


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## Katie H (Nov 6, 2007)

CharlieD said:


> I made spaghetti and meat balls for the first time yesterday. Not that I’ve never made meat balls before, but the idea was to make Italian meatballs. I don’t think they really turn out Italian, but I have to say they turn out to be very soft and very tasty. I bet my seasoning was off. But unlike all those times I had meatballs in Italian restaurant and hated them this time I like them a lot. Need to get my seasoning strait. What kind of seasoning do you use for Italian meatballs?



Charlie, I use garlic,  parsley, oregano,   and basil in my  Italian meatballs. They  turn out quite tasty.


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## Rom (Nov 6, 2007)

u could always put onion?


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## Caine (Nov 6, 2007)

Try letting them percolate in your sauce for about an hour. They'll pick up the flavor of the sauce.


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## Rom (Nov 6, 2007)

what Caine said

I do...an hour or maybe a bit more in my garlic sauce, depending on the sauce itself and how much i made.


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## qmax (Nov 6, 2007)

Mine:

1 lb ground pork
1 1/2 lb ground beef
6 oz prosciutto - diced
6 oz pancetta - diced
3 eggs
3 tbsp minced garlic
cup chopped parsely
cup breadcrumbs soaked in milk
1-2 TBSP Pimenton (spanish smoked paprika, this is absolutely the transcendental ingredient, use a bit less if you subsitute bacon for the pancetta because of the smoked nature of bacon)
Fresh ground pepper
Salt - careful with it the proscuitto and pancetta have a lot of salt.

Mix it well, form into 1 1/2 in balls.

Brown well, then dump in whatever sauce you made. Simmer for at least 30 minutes.

Absolutely the richest, deepest flavored meatballs you'll ever make (the pimenton adds a character that is amazing).

They are not the cheapest meatballs in the world, but everyone will rave.


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## auntdot (Nov 6, 2007)

Charlie, I always make mine with pork, veal and beef, but obviously the pork is out, as is the Parmesan. When I cannot get pork, mix the veal and beef and it works just fine. As for seasonings, usually cheat. Just buy the Italian seasoning mix which usually includes basil, oregano, sage, marjoram. But the mix does vary.

Oh yeah, onions are a must. Can cheat with onion powder. Oh yeah, and garlic, there is always the debate around here about garlic. Always add it, the question is how much. But that is always a matter of debate, polite debate I will add, around here. The powder will work. Have made meatballs for many and sometimes in limited situations, so trust me the powders can be used for both onions and garlic. Or the flaked stuff, whatever yu can find.

Good luck.


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## pippo90 (Nov 7, 2007)

Sorry to break your Italian views on the meatballs but in Italy we don't have meatballs in out spaghetti

there is althought spaghetti with meat sauce which would be the closest thing to the sereotypical "meatballs", just an FYI Culture Shock, it is more of an Italo-American immigrant thing

and yes I was born and raised in Italy 

let me know if you would like the recipe to the meat sauce dish, 'tis very good


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## elaine l (Nov 7, 2007)

Pippo90, I would love your recipe!

For meatballs mine are pretty basic.  Ground meat, breadcrumbs,egg, salt and pepper and a little dried basil.  I agree with Caine...they go in the sauce and "percolate"


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## auntdot (Nov 7, 2007)

Yep pippo, am aware that in Italy people don't generally make spaghetti with meatballs.

We often make spaghetti sauce with fresh pork that we cook by simmering in the sauce.

But heck, meatballs in spaghetti are also really good.  If they are not authentic Italian, who cares? A lotta folks like them, and we are among them.

We both grew up in NYC in areas that had a large number of second generation Italians.  And they served spaghetti with meatballs. They were our neighbors and our friends and  authenticity was not an issue that I can recall.

In the US we eat a lot of dishes that carry names that have little to do with origiinal dish.

Perhaps our greatest international culinary affront could be the many Chinese restaurants that serve stuff that no person in China ever tasted (I was lucky enough to learn a bit about authentic Chinese cuisine in my early twenties, many thanks to the truly lovely Chinese people who taught me.)  Fortunately the Chinese people do not seem to take affront, and many try to teach us how to enjoy the McCoy. God bless them.

Spaghetti with meatballs is a well entrenched dish in this county's culinary lexicon.

Maybe Charlie D would love your sauce, but maybe, given the chance, you would like the suff with meatballs.


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## buckytom (Nov 7, 2007)

caine, agreed about the simmering in sauce idea. that's s.o.p. in my book.

i've found the meatballs (and other meats) pick up even more flavor from the sauce, as well as impart theirs to the sauce after letting it cool down and refrigerate for a day, then reheating it. one of those "better the second day" type of meals.

charlie, in a large bowl, my very italian-american meatballs contain :
3/4lb of 85% ground beef
1/4 lb of ground pork (sometimes i'll go all beef, at 80%)
1 to 2 eggs, depending on the size
then eyeing it, about 1/3rd of the volume so far in seasoned breadcrumbs, 1/3rd of the volume in grated locatelli, and 1/3 of the volume in dried parsley.
add a pinch of red pepper flakes, and gently work the ingredients together.
form into 2 " balls, fry in evoo to brown all sides but not cook through, then into the sauce they go.

edited to add: this recipe is a merging of recipes as taught to me by several different first generation italian americans, who learned it from their families.
they are:
2 (now retired) co-workers' recipes, when i asked them to ask their  sicillian mothers; my first girlfriend's grandmother, who was born in calabria; an italian deli owner, recently emigrated from puglia; and finally my own mother's recipe, as she had learned from her friend, of naples and sicillian descent.


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## pippo90 (Nov 7, 2007)

Ya, I know. Just giving my two cents on the matter. I'll get the recipe up here. And maybe try the meatballs too.


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## Rom (Nov 7, 2007)

I'd be interested in your recipe too 

I make pasta a lot, wouldn't mind a different sauce lol

Pity i can never quite get it to taste like my mums


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## CharlieD (Nov 13, 2007)

Pippo90 fire away, would like to see your recipe. have to agree on meat balls thing. 6 month that I spent in Italy and ate and quite a few (lucky me) Italian families, I never seen spaghetti with meatballs, rather it was always the sauce. But here in ameriKA it is all diferent, it is a new world after all.!


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## CharlieD (Nov 13, 2007)

Reading all of the responces I came to conclusion, that maybe my meattballs were italian after all. It just that the only experience I've had in the past from Italian restaurants were not so good. Maybe I thought my meatballs will also be not good, but after all why should they be bad, right? Meatballs were very good wife and kids loveded. Next time I'm making my own sauce, was in a hurry this time, used Barrila.


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## woodman (Jan 6, 2008)

CharlieD said:


> What kind of seasoning do you use for Italian meatballs?


Hi CharliD,


I mix italian sausage with 80%-lean ground beef.

Johnsonville brand, Hot Italian Sausage, net wt, 1.24 lbs.

Ground beef should be one pound, but not more, and no leaner than 80%.

Instead of using salt, I season it with Adolf's Meat Tenderizer which has salt in it.

Break-up the sausage meat across about 2 square feet of surface, then break-up the ground beef to sprinkle over it. When this is done your meat should be well distributed which allows for easier mixing. 

When the meat is broken-up like that, it gets warm, FAST, and this will ruin the color and make it harder to work with, so I find it convenient to distribute the meat in a pan lined with wax paper. I put the pan (with meat) in the freezer for 30 minutes to get extra cold, then take it out to add the spices.

Try sprinkling this with dry basil, thyme, oregano, parsley, and add a little grated parmesan cheese and bread crumbs. Fresh crushed black pepper adds a lot of flavor.

Lightly sprinkle some garlic powder over the meat, then add a generous sprinkling of dried chopped onions.

I use a coffee bean grinder to powder anis & fennel seeds, then sprinkle some of them over the meat as well.

Add just a dash of paprika (regular, not smoked) and a light sprinkle of sugar (about 1/2 as much as the meat tenderizer).

mix about 1-1/4 cup of ice water and pour it over the meat & spices, then mix them all together.

The meat will absorb the water, and that's okay because the dry spices will suck water away from the meat.

Mix the meat thoroughly and allow to sit for a few hours in the freezer. This will allow spices to blend while keeping the meat nice & cold.

Make the balls slightly bigger than a golf ball, but smaller than a baseball. 

Should make between 10-11.

Bake @ 350 for 35-40 minutes. 

You wont believe the smell. It's incredible. YUMMM!!!!!

Whenever I smell it cooking, I want to start drinking beer because I KNOW something tasty is coming up soon, so I usually sink 4-6 cans in the freezer an hour or two before I bake the meatballs.

I used to do sauce from scratch, but now I just buy Prego brand in a jar, ("Prego With Fresh Mushroom" variety), add a little thyme and simmer. Why go through all the work? Besides, I'll be drunk by the time the sauce needs to be cooked.



Sorry to read about your shoyu fiasco.
 Not all soy sauces are alike. I learned the hard way, too.


Woodman


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## CharlieD (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks, besides baking, sausage and cheese I prettymuch did the same thing. I probably just did not give enough spices.


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## woodman (Jan 6, 2008)

CharlieD said:


> Thanks, besides baking, sausage and cheese I prettymuch did the same thing. I probably just did not give enough spices.



The ratio of beef to sausage is important.

The brand of sausage is also critical as I have no control of THAT factor, so if you go off and by "braintard" brand (instead of what I specified) and get awful tasting sausage, that's YOUR fault!

I try to be very specific because it is important to outcome, but with this recipe, I really never measure the spices. I just go by eye.

Be conservative to start, and I think that you will eventually (probably quickly) be able to adjust this to your own particular taste.


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## CharlieD (Jan 6, 2008)

I keep kosher so none of the items you mention above are usable. Though I'm sure there are plenty of good Italian meatballs out there.


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## Walt Bulander (Jan 6, 2008)

The breadcrumbs soaked in milk are important to the tender texture, but I would bet you could use chicken or beef stock. Hey, I think I'll try that next time.


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## David Cottrell (Jan 6, 2008)

Chaarlie, I'm glad I read to the end of this - I was wondering if you really like your meatballs, and it seems that your family does as well, why worry about it? Are you sure that in those restaurants you wern't getting some pork mixed in or do you always take care to ask? 

I guess you and I are somewhat alike - if it says Ukrainian I would like to start as close to the real deal as I can and then work from there - like your most excellent cake or that lady's belache. 

Anyway I think if you like your meat balls I must copy the recipe and go from there, I've forgotten already did you posted it?


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## David Cottrell (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi Woodman, I appreciate your comments and tips here, really do. The comment you aimed at Charlie that I just received? Maybe it was a bad hair day - I hope so, this is a place of good will. Your suggestion to Charlie to specify Kosher was a good one. Maybe Charlie can pick up on that with his questions and posts. Also Charlie, maybe you could give us a non Jewish practical guide to Kosher - maybe a paragraph or what ever is appropriate. I've learned alot from you Charlie, keep it up!


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## sage™ (Jan 7, 2008)

the fennel seed is really good in meatballs. It gives it a bit of the sausage taste since thats one of the ingredients in Italian sausage.


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## CharlieD (Jan 7, 2008)

David, I did not have a spesific recipe. I used probably half and half, eh, maybe just a little bit more beef and chicken mix. Some onion, some bread, some egg, seasoning. I think my meatballs were much closer to Ukraininan than Italian. But I'm sure it could have been compemsated if I added more Italian seasoning. I was expecting more of oregano and sage but it was not there. At least this is what I understand from the above posts. I was afraid to over do it since i usually do not use those herbs. There is always next time.

As far as Kosher thread goes I'll think about it. First I'd have to figure out where to even put it. Have a great day.


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## *amy* (Jan 7, 2008)

I find Oregano can sometimes be overpowering in the meatball. I would use it sparingly - if at all in the meat mixture. Much prefer to use oregano in the tomato sauce - and use seasoned Italian crumbs.

I prefer flat-leaf Italian parsley & fresh basil - but I do mix in Parm (which is a no-no for Kosher, I think). Here's a basic idea - but guess you can't use the milk either:

1-1/2 pounds lean ground sirloin or chuck
3/4 cup seasoned Italian breadcrumbs
1/2 cup grated Parmesan cheese
2 tablespoons fresh chopped Italian parsley
2 tablespoons fresh chopped basil or 1 tablespoon dried
1 tablespoon garlic powder
2 eggs, beaten
2 tablespoons milk 

I make em about golfball size & sometimes bake until golden brown or add to (marinara) sauce.

Again, probably a no-no for you, but sometimes I put a cube of mozzarella in each meatball.

Maybe you can tweek the recipe, omit the dairy & add spinach or stuffing mix to the mix.

My quick & EZ method - add a packet of Lipton Onion & Mushroom soup mix, worcestershire & garlic powder - or Tabasco. Lots of ways to go.


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## CharlieD (Jan 7, 2008)

I have to admit, i did not always kept kosher, it's been only last 9 years give or take. I have to say, Amy,  your recipe sounds really good. I'm not going to say that I would like to try it. In all the truth i am not big fan of beef in general and any ground meat in particular. I much rather have a beef or lamb "steak" or chicken.


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## woodman (Jan 7, 2008)

David Cottrell said:


> Hi Woodman, I appreciate your comments and tips here, really do. The comment you aimed at Charlie that I just received? Maybe it was a bad hair day - I hope so, ...



Actually, it was a bad beer day; no beer = bad day.

It takes me a while to sort things out and write them in a way that everyone can clearly understand; specifying process, naming brands, etc. All that small stuff is actually critical to successful outcome of any dish.

If I had known the topic was kosher restricted I wouldn't have bothered to post a response. I don't like to go through all that effort for nothing, so at that particular moment I became a bit short. 

Sorry about that.


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## CharlieD (Jan 7, 2008)

Don't be sorry. It's never for "nothing" I like to read real recipes, gives me an idea of what to shut for. And try to find substitud. Also other people might like your idea.


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## Caine (Jan 7, 2008)

buckytom said:


> i've found the meatballs (and other meats) pick up even more flavor from the sauce, as well as impart theirs to the sauce after letting it cool down and refrigerate for a day, then reheating it. one of those "better the second day" type of meals.


 It's also a sure fire way to make sure the meatballs are cooked all the way through, especially if you fry them.

As far as meatballs in spaghetti, my family is Sicilian, and the meatballs NEVER came IN the spaghetti, or any other type of macaroni either. The macaroni was served on your plate with sauce already mixed into it, and the meatballs and sausages came to the table in a separate bowl, to be eaten AFTER the macaroni was finished. 

Oh, and I've never heard any Italian, not even second or third generation American ones, call in "pasta." It's always macaroni in general, or the exact style of macaroni (i.e spaghetti, penne, mostaccioli, rigatoni, ziti, etc.). First of all, pasta translates to paste, which is only eaten by small children in the back of the kindergarten classroom when the teacher isn't looking, and, even more importantly, it sounds too much like basta, which you never want to say while the macaroni is being served.


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## David Cottrell (Jan 7, 2008)

Actually woodman, I learned from your suggestions about meatballs and shall copy them off into my recipe file - seems to me you know what you are talking about. Actually from all the posts on the subject I've learned and thanks to everyone!

But Charlie, Ukrainian meat balls you say? - I'll have to look that up  As best I can figure you were light on the spices and my general impression of Ukrainian cooking is that spices are very lightly used if at all. Salt and pepper and easy on the salt is my impression. Am I wrong? Teach me something, my friend from Kiev.


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## Rom (Jan 7, 2008)

Caine said:


> ...it sounds too much like basta, which you never want to say while the macaroni is being served.



basta is something you also say if someone tries to give u more macaroni with ceci  (chickpeas)  yuk!



@ paste in the back of the classroom


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## CharlieD (Jan 8, 2008)

David i'm going to post answer to your question in :

http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f21/charlie-d-s-ukrainian-recipes-13160.html#post531483


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## David Cottrell (Jan 9, 2008)

Woodman, thanks for reworking you Italian meatball recipe with all the tips, etc. Looks like I will have to make sure to have all the spices on hand and measured, everything in order and the recipe right at hand. Thank you for your effort! D


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## woodman (Jan 11, 2008)

Don't thank me, yet.
Wait until you've tried it.

You might want to keep track of the spices (something that I NEVER do) by writing down the amount you use of each item, if only for your own reference.

Even if you add too much or too little of something, it's still gonna taste good enough to where you will see the potential in this recipe.
Keeping track your spices will provide the necessary reference that will allow you to make adjustments in future batches. You can even alter things to fit your own taste if yo wish.

Please report back afterward to provide info on the outcome.


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## David Cottrell (Feb 18, 2008)

Ok Woodman, I waited and tried your meatballs today - did the full process except for the anis and fennel seeds - I figured I was doing enough blind juggling of enough ingredients for the first trial. They came out very good indeed - well received by family. My daughter's "friend" is a third generation Italian-Irish-American and well accustomed to the tastes. He said they were just right!

So, it's a keeper! Will make again - I have the taste notes from this try and can hone in more next time! Thanks for the recipe and tips. D


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## AMSeccia (Feb 18, 2008)

Pippo90, I would really enjoy seeing your sauce recipe, if you have one.  My great grandfather was from Aquilla, and none of us really have anything written down, we just "do what Grandma does," but it never includes meatballs.  More often than not, we use stew meat or roast, etc., which cooks down and nearly shreds.  The flavor and body it adds to the sauce is "home" to me.  That said, I do LOVE a good meatball and have been known to add them to my sauce after they're cooked ... if they last that long!


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## woodman (Feb 19, 2008)

David Cottrell said:


> Ok Woodman, I waited and tried your meatballs today
> ... They came out very good indeed - well received by family. My daughter's "friend" is a third generation Italian-Irish-American and well accustomed to the tastes. He said they were just right!
> 
> So, it's a keeper! Will make again - I have the taste notes from this try and can hone in more next time! Thanks for the recipe and tips. D



That's great news, David.

Once you've had a chance to try it, other meatballs just don't taste the same and might as well just be called "Hamburgers in the round".

if you use the Prego w/mushroom sauce as I do, you might also want to toss in a tablespoon or two of dried thyme to mix with the sauce.

If you're having a bunch of people over with this dish, you can dress it up to look really fancy without doing much work: Buy a fresh loaf of french bread. Slice it up and put it out with some slices of butter to start.

Serve a salad before the spaghetti, and once the spaghetti is ready, put out some crushed black olives and chopped italian parsley to go with it.

...so to dress it up, all you really have to do is slice some bread, cut some butter, and open up a few cans.

Cheers!


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## CharlieD (Jun 26, 2008)

Last night i decide to try to make this dish again. I'm still not sure if they are Italian per se, since there is nobody Italian around to taste. But they are so darn good, everybody loved it. Can't wait to get home to have some, yum. Thank you for ideas everybody.


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## lulu (Jun 26, 2008)

You know, I know meatballs in pasta are not Italian (being married to an italian and like Charlie hacving the luck to have ived in Italy)  but they are very good.  we don't get them in Italian restaurants in UK either.

When I first serve them to DH he just looked at me askance but he loved them.  

I think some of the upset caused to the italian fraternity is the use of the word 'Italian' in front of the meatballs.  How about just meatballs with spaghetti to avoid any offence?  In any case, they do taste good.

As they are not Italian I don't see it matters whether kosher or otherwise accept to the eaters, and I am grateful for recipes of both variants! I love meatballs of ALL varieties!


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## DramaQueen (Jun 26, 2008)

Rom said:


> - fresh garlic, parsley, grated parmesan cheese, breadcrumbs, eggs and a bit of salt, mix all together and then mix in the mince, i use lamb. my bf LOVES these and cannot eat enough
> 
> -i then lightly fry them in evoo before i put them in the sauce, just on the outside


 
*Mine exactly except for one variation: I always use fresh garlic, fresh Italian parsely, grated parmesan (the real thing, NOT the box) and eggs, but I use fresh Italian seasoned bread crumbs. The meat is always 3 parts ground beef, 1 part hot Italian sausage removed from the casing. Saute in olive oil til browned then simmer in the sauce. The Italian sausage makes all the difference in the world. *
*AWESOME!!!*

*There are so many types of meatballs, Swedish, Russian, etc. and just plain ole meatballs. Using Italian sausage, parmesan cheese, garlic and Italian type seasonings like oregano, basil, thyme etc. makes the meatballs "Italian." *
** 
*Meatballs coupled with pasta are extremely common here in America.  They go hand in hand.  All Italian restaurants serve them that way.  Or you can opt to have the pasta with Italian sausages or not.*


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## CharlieD (Jun 26, 2008)

There are a lot of dishes that are called ............. Add whatever country you wish, that nobody in that country ever heard of. But you know what we love them here, and that is what we call them here. And that is how we are going to eat them. Yum.


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