# A Question of Fat



## Alix (Jan 21, 2008)

OK, redkitty's coconut oil thread inspired me a bit. I wonder how fat "savvy" we all are. There is so much to know, and we often just take things piecemeal and don't look at the whole picture. So, lets share what we know, or think we know about fat. What are your do's and don'ts? 

For example: 

I use butter. I'm fully aware that it contains cholesterol, but I'm willing to risk it for the taste. My cholesterol levels are good, and I work at that. 

I know that cholesterol is primarily found in animal fat. Plant cholesterol is so insignificant it doesn't even really register.

I know saturated fat = bad and I know unsaturated is slightly better. I can't give you chapter and verse on why though. Anyone?

Trans fats are caused by hydrogenating fats to make them solid at room temp. I know they are not good for me, but can't remember why. However, it seems to make sense to me that a fat that is solid at room temp after being monkeyed with in a lab is likely not as good for me as another alternative.

Hydrogenated = bad. Unhydrogenated = good. LOL. Pretty simplistic huh? 

Seriously though, we eat olive oil in salad dressings and canola for most other frying issues. Unhydrogenated becel for the margarine lovers and butter for me. 

What about you guys? And can anyone shed some light without being TOO technical about it?


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## bethzaring (Jan 21, 2008)

this comes from my college textbook "Food, Nutrition, and Diet Therapy". 7th edition.

Saturated fats raise blood serum cholesterol (cholesterol in your blood), a LOT.  Cholesterol in food does not appreciably raise the cholesterol levels in your blood.

Monounsaturated fats have no effect on serum cholesterol levels in your blood.

Polyunsaturated fats lower blood serum cholesterol levels.

Evidence suggests that dietary fiber may lower blood serum cholesterol levels, (think oatmeal).

High cholesterol levels in the blood are *thought* (not proven, but much evidence exists) to contribute to CHD, Coronary Heart Disease.


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## StirBlue (Jan 21, 2008)

emulsifier is a chemical agent used in many products to include food and beverages.  

They create high cholesterol and weight gain.  You may look at one product such as salad dressing.  It does not contain enough of the chemical to cause high cholesterol and weight gain.  But nearly every product that we use has an emulsifier so we are taking in a very large amount of these chemicals all the time.  They are also in liquid medicines and hygiene/cosmetics to include hair dye and gardening supplies.  Most of the feed for livestock & poultry also include this stuff.  Flavored bottle water does too and sports drinks are loaded.  

Fat is not the big bad boy anymore!


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## GotGarlic (Jan 21, 2008)

StirBlue said:


> emulsifier is a chemical agent used in many products to include food and beverages.
> 
> They create high cholesterol and weight gain.



Can you be more specific about which emulsifier you're talking about? There are lots - mustard and eggs can be emulsifiers: http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/Season8/sauce/sauce_trans.htm (Search the page for "emulsifier.")


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## StirBlue (Jan 21, 2008)

Tom's of Maine - About Our Products

This is in the children's allergy benadryl.  This is listed on the inactive ingredient list.


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## StirBlue (Jan 21, 2008)

I might add that emulsifiers are also used to clean up oil spills in the ocean!  And we see the effects that it has on the fish and birds in particular.  The polar bears have been exposed to more emulsifiers than global warming!


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## GotGarlic (Jan 21, 2008)

StirBlue said:


> I might add that emulsifiers are also used to clean up oil spills in the ocean!  And we see the effects that it has on the fish and birds in particular.  The polar bears have been exposed to more emulsifiers than global warming!



I've seen effects of oil spills on fish and birds, but not of emulsifiers. I'm not one who panics over every chemical I see listed on something - as I've said in other threads, everything we ingest is a chemical and our bodies are chemical factories. Just because we're not chemists and aren't familiar with a long word is no reason to fear it automatically. And the fact that emulsifiers are used to clean up oil spills has nothing whatever to do with food that I can see. Chances are they're not the same things.


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## GotGarlic (Jan 21, 2008)

StirBlue said:


> Tom's of Maine - About Our Products
> 
> This is in the children's allergy benadryl.  This is listed on the inactive ingredient list.



From that page:

What are the risks?

Poloxamer 335 and 407 have no known toxicity and a long history of safe use in a wide range of oral and topical pharmaceutical products. They are not known or suspected to have carcinogenic effects or any other health-related effects.


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## Maverick2272 (Jan 21, 2008)

GotGarlic said:


> I'm not one who panics over every chemical I see listed on something - as I've said in other threads, everything we ingest is a chemical and our bodies are chemical factories. Just because we're not chemists and aren't familiar with a long word is no reason to fear it automatically.


 
I tend to agree. I worry less about the chemical ingredients in the food and more about what chemicals might be _on_ the food.

But, I also shy away from heavily processed foods to begin with and I am sure that helps. To me avoiding processed foods is second nature to loving to cook. I am having a hard time articulating this, but I think I am try to say "If we are into cooking, then why would we be buying alot of pre-packaged and pre-processed food instead of fresh ingredients and making it ourselves?"
Not sure if I made any sence there, but if I make my own sauces, dressings, soups, etc. then I guess i dont have much to worry about concerning emulsifiers, dyes, artifical flavorings etc. since I just dont use them in my own cooking.

Nothing beats homecooked!


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## Maverick2272 (Jan 21, 2008)

Um, yea so I noticed the title of this thread is acting about fat, LOL. 

Concerning that, my cholesterol was way way up three years ago. I changed my habits and went from so much prepared and processed food to homemade foods using fresh ingredients. I also stopped buying junk food and instead switched to healthy snacks like fruits and vegetables.
Instead of eating out, I began to cook more and more at home from scratch, and many of the same foods that I was eating out to get. I by no means consider myself any kind of chef, but I am proud that my wife tells me, and often, "I would rather eat your food than the resturants, its just as good if not better and considerably cheaper".
So, cut the junk food, processed food, and eating out. Went to making fresh food, using fresh ingredients, larger portions of fruits and vegetables and smaller portions of meat, and now my cholesterol is way down.
As for the the fats I used in cooking: I didnt change that at all. I have always used butter over margerine, and cooked with olive oils, canola oil, and peanut oil. Very little with vegetable oil.
For me the only reason I change the oil I would use is if I was changing the flavor of the recipe by doing so. 
I just think, IMHO, that the less we use the grocery store as a kitchen and the more we rely on home grown or farmers markets and our own kitchens the better off we are.
I try not to think to heavily into everything else, just too depressing sometimes.


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## bethzaring (Jan 22, 2008)

The human body needs about 2 tablespoons of fat a day to keep all cellular functions operating happily.


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## YT2095 (Jan 22, 2008)

we need them for a variety of Hormones too, compare coleSTEROL with progeSTEROne or  testoSTEROne.

they are all fats and some are fatty acids, Stearates are the salts of these acids, ever heard of Sodium Strearate? how about if I say Soap!

they really are an amazing group of Molecule types


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## Constance (Jan 22, 2008)

My husband has been diagnosed with COPD (early stages), and it's recommended that he maintain a high fat/low carb diet. With COPD, one's lungs calcify, i.e., harden up, and the fat helps keep the air sacs in the lungs lubricated.


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## DramaQueen (Jan 22, 2008)

Maverick2272 said:


> I tend to agree. I worry less about the chemical ingredients in the food and more about what chemicals might be _on_ the food.
> 
> But, I also shy away from heavily processed foods to begin with and I am sure that helps. To me avoiding processed foods is second nature to loving to cook. I am having a hard time articulating this, but I think I am try to say "If we are into cooking, then why would we be buying alot of pre-packaged and pre-processed food instead of fresh ingredients and making it ourselves?"
> Not sure if I made any sence there, but if I make my own sauces, dressings, soups, etc. then I guess i dont have much to worry about concerning emulsifiers, dyes, artifical flavorings etc. since I just dont use them in my own cooking.
> ...


 
*I couldn't agree with you more.  I too am an avid cook and I cook everything I eat.  I don't use processed foods unless I absolutely have to.   I do use butter, never margarine and never canola oil.  ACCCCKKKK.   Olive oil and corn oil are staples in my house but olive oil is used for most things including my own salad dressings, sauces, soups, etc. just like you do.   You can't buy soup or salad dressing that can equal the purity of ingredients or the taste of homemade and the salad dressings only take a few minutes to make.  *
*I make my own bread crumbs too, how easy is that?   Ever look on the side panel of can of bread crumbs?  Why do bread crumbs need 30 other ingredients?    Most of those things are fillers, like cellulose.   More AAACCCKKK. *

*Everything in moderation.  Paula Deen and Emeril Lagasse take note. *


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## Alix (Jan 22, 2008)

DramaQueen, what is wrong with canola in your opinion? And why is corn oil better? In Canada we get lots of information about canola and its all good. It is nearly free of saturated fat and is almost 60% monounsaturated and has essential omega 3's. I'm not all that familiar with corn oil, but I'm off to do a search on its contents.

Edit: found this on corn oil "Refined corn oil is 99% triglyceride, with proportions of approximately 59% polyunsaturated fatty acid, 24% monounsaturated fatty acid, and 13% saturated fatty acid."


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## DramaQueen (Jan 22, 2008)

Alix said:


> DramaQueen, what is wrong with canola in your opinion? And why is corn oil better? In Canada we get lots of information about canola and its all good. It is nearly free of saturated fat and is almost 60% monounsaturated and has essential omega 3's. I'm not all that familiar with corn oil, but I'm off to do a search on its contents.
> 
> Edit: found this on corn oil "Refined corn oil is 99% triglyceride, with proportions of approximately 59% polyunsaturated fatty acid, 24% monounsaturated fatty acid, and 13% saturated fatty acid."


 
*Alix, this is one of many, many articles and TV health segments on Canola oil.   It's a long article, and I didn't write it so please don't kill the messenger. *

*I truly have never read anything that praises the virtues of canola oil.   I prefer not to use it,  I don't like what I've learned about it, but but along with  that, it has no flavor and I find it a waste of money.  Here is the article:*


But let's start with what canola oil is. "Canola" is not a plant. Canola is a made up word for "Canada" and "oil". Canola oil is actually derived from the rapeseed plant. Obviously the food industry didn't think that RAPE was a good word to market their new oil, so they coined the name "Canola" and that's what we call it.

Until the 1970s, rapeseed was not fit for human consumption because it was too high in eruric acid. Eruric acid has been shown to cause heart lesions and vitamin E deficiency. This acid, though, made it the perfect lubricant for engines and it was used industrially. During World War II it's production skyrocketed. But after the war, the need for rapeseed oil plummeted and the food industry set about trying to figure out how to keep this big cash crop going.

They kept cross-breeding the rapeseed until they got the eruric acid level low enough to get the FDA to consider it GRAS (generally regarded as safe) seal of approval. The level "considered" safe is 2 percent or below. Most canola oil has anywhere from .5-1 percent eruric acid still in it. Is that safe? Hopefully. But when it's heated, even low levels of eruric acid have been linked to lung cancer. You should never heat canola oil.

But is that reason enough to not use it? Probably not. That was the big deal in the email hoax - the eruric acid.

Consider the FDA will not allow canola oil in infant formula because it was found to retard growth, according to the Federal Register in 1985. Do I need to make my children midgets? 

And here is something that cannot be denied. *Eighty percent* of the rapeseed crop being planted now is genetically engineered to resist an herbicide called glufosinate ammonium. This herbicide is non-selective and will kill any plant it comes into contact with - unless the plant has been genetically altered to keep it from dying. This means you can dump as much herbicide as you want on the weeds and no longer worry about killing your actual crop. Glufosinate ammonium has been linked to nervous system problems in humans and animals. The FDA says even small amounts of this herbicide are toxic and no one is regulating the rapeseed oil for this residue.

This is *big business* for the companies that produce herbicides though. Big business!

These genetically altered plants are also posing another risk by crossbreeding with weeds and making the weeds resistant to glufosinate ammonium. Now you need to add a different herbicide in to kill the GA-resistant weeds. Guess what? This means more herbicides are being sold! Somebody is making *even more money*!

Honeybees are the biggest pollinators of rapeseed. Given the choice, honeybees will choose the rapeseed flower over other flowers. In 1997, the New Scientist published a report showing that proteins from the genetically engineered rapeseed are showing up in honey and may have adverse effects on bees and cause unknown allergens in humans.

Okay, so who cares about bees? Is that reason enough to stop eating canola?

Well then, let's also consider the fact rapeseed is a stinky oil. The reason no one but a few Asian cultures used it for food is that it has a stinky pungent odor. It's also a naturally dark oil. Look at your bottle of canola oil. Is it dark? In order to get the stink out and change it's color, it has to be deodorized and bleached. This process involves heating it and using chemicals. Guess what happens to the Omega 3s when they are heated? They become rancid. I could have linked the whole chemical process, but you would seriously need to be a chemist to get it. Do I need to be a chemist to know what I'm eating?

Okay, so if that isn't enough to convince you, also consider that in addition to being highly refined, heated, and bleached, solvents like hexane and acetone are also used in the process of extracting the oil from the seeds and preventing the crystallization of the rapeseed sediment.

So let's go over this. Canola oil contains potentially dangerous eruric acid, along with residues from herbicides, solvents, and bleaches. It's genetically altered. It's having an impact on the environment and on animal species.

Will it kill you? Probably not. Is is the *best choice*?

*NO!

*Your best choice is to use cold-pressed oils. They cost a lot. I use cold-pressed extra virgin olive oil. I prefer Greek. I also use high oleic, cold-pressed organic safflower oil. I sometimes use grape seed oil. We use butter. Do NOT use margarine *ever*. Do not eat hydrogenated anything.


If you want to do one single thing to change your health, your cardiovascular health and your cholesterol, change your oil.


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## Andy M. (Jan 22, 2008)

I consider this a classic example of propaganda from other oil producers.  

They make non-specific statements that suggest but do not prove certain things and leave it up to the uneducated consumers' ignorance of the facts to fear the worst.  It's very easy to trigger the, "I'm not going to use that stuff just to be on the safe side." response in people.


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## bethzaring (Jan 22, 2008)

the oil I use the most of is olive oil, followed by canola oil.  Real corn oil is great, but not easily found, at least not where i live. It should be a dark yellow.  It is wonderful in corn bread.

Is this still the fat thread?  If it is, 

some vitamins are water soluble ( B vit, and C) and some are fat soluble (A, D, E, K).  We need that little bit of fat in our diet every day to help transport the fat soluble vitamins around our body.


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## Alix (Jan 22, 2008)

DramaQueen, I can see why you would be worried if that is the only information you have about it. Forgive me, but that article is a load of horse puckies. I will refute a few comments in that article. Thanks for sharing that so I could understand your strong comments earlier. I appreciate that. And don't worry, not shooting the messenger here. 

Canola is so named because it is *Can*adian *O*il, *L*ow *A*cid. It is indeed modified rapeseed oil which was high in erucic acid...canola is not. And it is very low indeed, far below what is cited in that article "Canola oil contains only 0.5 to 1% erucic acid, well below the 2 percent limit set by the USDA."

I guess this reinforces my original statement that there is a lot of information out there and it pays to do some research.

I'm going to continue to use canola oil in the places where I don't use olive oil. And DramaQueen, we will just have to agree to disagree because from what I read, corn oil has the kinds of fats that I'm working on eliminating. (triglycerides and saturated fats).


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## Andy M. (Jan 22, 2008)

I use canola in higher heat applications as it has a higher smoke point than EVOO.


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## Alix (Jan 22, 2008)

Beth, yep, still the fat thread. And yep we sure do need fat in our diet. We just don't need as much of it as most of us get, and I think we need to understand what kinds of fat we put in there. I like to learn so I hope folks keep posting what they know or have done research on.


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## bethzaring (Jan 22, 2008)

Alix said:


> Beth, yep, still the fat thread. And yep we sure do need fat in our diet. We just don't need as much of it as most of us get, and I think we need to understand what kinds of fat we put in there. I like to learn so I hope folks keep posting what they know or have done research on.


 
thanks alix. I was thinking some of this dialog was in another thread, I'm easily confused.

*"Edit: found this on corn oil "Refined corn oil is 99% triglyceride, with proportions of approximately 59% polyunsaturated fatty acid, 24% monounsaturated fatty acid, and 13% saturated fatty acid."*


I find this interesting. I am not familiar with dietary oils being referred to as triglyceride content. Is *refined* corn oil the key here? I am sure what I have used is unrefined corn oil. It is nothing like the pale yellow stuff I have seen in the grocery store. But this tryglyceride thing? Dietary cholestrol does not raise blood cholestrol, but are you saying intake of dietary triglycerides raises the trig, levels in the blood? My literature has corn oil being 13% saturated, 25% monounsaturated, and 62% polyunsaturated.


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## Maverick2272 (Jan 22, 2008)

I wonder if we are missing the point here? I use many different oils for my cooking: canola, corn, olive, vegetable, and now I am hearing about cottonseed.
Trying to keep track of what is what, yes you do need fats, but these fats are unhealthy, etc is getting confusing. And with each oil manufacturer trying to sabotage the next, it only makes it worse.
Then there are the so-called health gurus: This causes cancer, oh wait no it doesnt, well it might. Butter is bad get margarine, oh wait thats bad too, and on and on seems like these guys can neve make up thier minds.
But, one message has stayed constant thru all this: moderation moderation moderation.
IE cooking with oils and consuming fatty foods ALL the time = bad bad bad
IE cooking _sometimes_ with oils and _sometimes_ fatty foods = OK, keep working on it
IE cooking with oils only when it enhances the taste and not just cause you like fried, and consuming healthy foods alot more than fatty foods = good job

JMHO


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## kitchenelf (Jan 22, 2008)

Yes Maverick - it's confusing.  What I think we need to remember and what it always goes back to is - balance/moderation.  Whether we're talking about oils, fats, carbs, sugars, vitamin intake (even vitamins can be bad if not moderated).  You want to lose weight you simply have to burn more calories than you take in.  That will NEVER change!  

A good healthy dose of common sense goes a long way - and it tastes really good with butter!


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## Andy M. (Jan 22, 2008)

*Canola Baloney*

The following article addresses many of the issues about the safety of canola oil. The Author, a professor of chemistry, has written several books addessing food myths with science. Check it out. It's worth reading.

*This article is too long for one post so the second half will be in a separate post.*​



*Canola Baloney*​


_By Robert L. Wolke_

Wednesday, February 7, 2001; Page F01 

*In my e-mail, I received the attached information about the dangers of canola oil. Apparently, it's making the rounds on the Internet. How much truth is there to it? *

The material you forwarded to me contains some 3,000 words of claims against canola oil. Here are some of the contents of that message, along with my parenthetical comments. Judge for yourself. 

• "A friend who worked for only nine months as a quality-control taster at an apple-chip factory where canola oil was used exclusively for frying developed numerous health problems." (Her high school guidance counselor should never have recommended a career as quality-control taster in an apple-chip factory.) "These included loose teeth and gum disease, numb hands and feet, swollen arms and legs upon rising in the morning, extreme joint pain especially in hands, cloudy vision, constipation with stools like black marbles, hearing loss, skin tears from being bumped, lack of energy, hair loss and heart pains." (Memo to the State Department's Bureau of Arms Control: Please add canola oil to your catalogue of chemical and biological weapons.) 
Such stories are mere hearsay, you might think. But how can you argue with the following first-person account, which I quote verbatim? 

• "My daughter and her girls were telling jokes. Stephanie hit her mom's arm with the back of a butter knife in a gesture, 'Oh, Mom,' not hard enough to hurt. My daughter's arm split open. . . . She called me to ask what could have caused it. I said, 'I'll bet anything you're using canola oil.' Sure enough, there was a big gallon jug in the pantry." (Well there's your proof, right there, Sheriff.) 
Then there is The Case of the Stubborn Stigmata: 

• "My sister spilled canola oil on a piece of fabric. After five pre-treatings and harsh washings, the oil spot still showed. She stopped using canola oil, wondering what it did to our insides if it could not be removed from cloth easily." (That is frightening indeed, especially for those of us whose insides are lined with cloth.) 
*www.humbug.net *
The Internet is unquestionably the greatest medium for the dissemination of information since the invention of ink and paper. Unfortunately, it is also the greatest medium for the dissemination of misinformation since the invention of the political campaign. While scandalmongering has always boosted circulation in the print media, scaremongering keeps the kilobytes flying on the Internet. Urban legends, they are called. 
I quote from a column that I wrote in this space about a year ago about a widely circulated urban legend (I won't identify it for fear of giving it fuel, because it's still circulating): "Urban legends are usually recognizable by certain characteristics. They warn of dire consequences from an innocent, everyday act; they are allegedly true stories but are nevertheless anonymous and unverifiable; and they lack sufficient detail to make logical evaluation possible." 
I should add that many urban-legend scare stories take flight from a grain of truth. The canola stories fit this mold, and they are encouraged by a couple of ranting books full of undocumented pseudoscientific charges.


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## Andy M. (Jan 22, 2008)

*Part II of the Canola Baloney Article*

*Some Facts*
Peanut oil comes from peanuts; olive oil comes from olives. But what on Earth is a canola? 
There is no such thing as a canola. Canola oil is rapeseed oil, pressed or extracted from the seeds of the rape plant (from the Latin rapa, meaning turnip) Brassica rapa or B. campestris, close relatives of mustard, kale, cabbage and broccoli. Mustard? Yes, but there is no truth to the hysterical claim made in the e-mail rave that rapeseed is the source of mustard gas, the flesh-burning chemical weapon used by the Germans in World War I; it is chemically unrelated. 
The grain of truth behind the whole anti-canola crusade is that historically, rapeseed oil has proven to be toxic because of a high content -- between 30 and 60 percent -- of erucic acid, a monounsaturated fatty acid. That has never stopped people in Asia and Scandinavia, however, from using it in their cooking for centuries. But while rapeseed oil has many industrial uses, it was not permitted as an edible oil in the U.S. because of its erucic acid content. 
In 1974, plant breeders at the University of Manitoba in Canada succeeded in developing a genetically modified rape plant whose seed oil contained less than 2 percent of erucic acid. They nationalistically named it canola: can- for "Canadian" plus -ola, for "oil." This euphemism was approved for edible rapeseed oil by the Food and Drug Administration in 1989, provided that the erucic acid content did not exceed 2 percent. 
Today's canola oil averages 0.6 percent erucic acid, only 1 percent or 2 percent of the amount in the rapeseed oil of old. It is valued for its fatty acid profile, which is 59 percent monounsaturated, 30 percent polyunsaturated and 7 percent saturated. This compares favorably with Health Champ olive oil's profile: 74 percent monounsaturated, 8 percent polyunsaturated and 14 percent saturated. 
Apparently, some people find it hard to understand that if the erucic acid has been bred out of the plant, the acid's toxicity can no longer be ascribed to the oil. 
This is not the only case of a dangerous substance having to be removed from a food to make it safe. Before cashew nuts are roasted, for example, they contain a substance that would burn your skin off. And cassava, a staple of the Central and South American diet, is full of hydrogen cyanide before it is soaked or heated. Shakespeare to the contrary notwithstanding, the sins of the fathers are not to be laid upon the children. 

*That's Oil, Folks*
Whenever there are two defensible positions in a controversy, one may expect arguments for both to turn up in an objective inquiry. In searching the Internet for information on canola, I found tons of pro-canola material from the Canola Council of Canada's prolific public relations machine, plus at least half a ton of undocumented anti-canola allegations. But significantly, I found no research studies indicating that today's low-erucic-acid canola oil, as distinguished from ordinary rapeseed oil, is harmful to humans. If credible scientific -- not anecdotal -- evidence of canola's harmfulness does exist, I would like to have it pointed out to me. 

As I have said, the Internet cuts both ways; it is a medium for spreading both information and misinformation. One thing is certain: Hysterical urban legends about bizarre diseases, rotting skin and spooky stigmata are of no help to anyone who is trying to form a rational opinion. Nor are the accompanying insinuations of conspiracy, such as the one about the Canadian government's bribing the Food and Drug Administration with $50 million to declare canola oil a safe food. 

My own theory is that the Canadians are deliberately poisoning the U.S. population with canola oil so they can take over the country and move down to a warmer climate. E-mail that to everyone in your address book. 



_Robert L. Wolke (professorscience.com) is professor emeritus of chemistry at the University of Pittsburgh. His latest book is "What Einstein Told His Barber: More Scientific Answers to Everyday Questions" (Dell Publications, $11.95). Send your kitchen questions to wolke@pitt.edu. _


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## Maverick2272 (Jan 22, 2008)

Andy M. said:


> *Some Facts*
> My own theory is that the Canadians are deliberately poisoning the U.S. population with canola oil so they can take over the country and move down to a warmer climate. E-mail that to everyone in your address book.


 


And too late, my wife is Canadian, they are already here!!!


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## Michael in FtW (Jan 22, 2008)

Triglyceride is the most common form of fats (solid or liquid). They consist of a 3 molecule glycerol chain with 3 fatty acids attached to it - like the letter "E" where the vertical left side is the glycerol chain and the horizontal portions are the fatty acid chains. Other forms are diglycerids (two fatty acid chains are attached to the glycerol) and monoglycerides (one fatty acid chain attached to the glycerol). Fatty acid chains that are not attached to the glycerol chain are known as free fatty acids. 

When fats are heated for cooking, the fatty acid chains begin to break apart and from the glycerol backbone .. the more free fatty acids the lower the smoke/flash point and the faster the fat will go rancid. 

High Density Lipoproteins (HDL - referred to good cholesterol) and Low Density Lipoproteins (LDL - referred to as bad cholesterol) are cholesterol transport systems. LDL takes cholesterol out from the liver and leaves deposits around the body - HDL picks you the debris left by the LDL and carries it back to the liver to be eliminated from the body.

Saturated fats (fatty acid chains with no double bonds) raise both the HDL and the LDL.

Monounsaturated fats (fatty acid chains with 1 double bond) raise the levels of HDL (good) cholesterol and lowers the LDL (bad) cholesterol.

Polyunsaturated fats (fatty acid chains with 2 or more double bonds) lowers the total cholesterol by lowering both the LDL and HDL the same amount (so if your total cholesterol falls by 2 points, 1 poine came from each the good and the bad).

Saturated fats are basically straight, like the letter "I" - unsaturated fats are bent at the double bonds - so they take on shapes like the letters "L" or "C". Since sat fats have a straight shape they can "zipper" together and the more of them the more likely the "fat" will be solid at room temp. Hydrogenation irons out some of the "kinks" in the unsaturated fats so they physically behave like sat fats and can form solids at room temp. 

Trans Fats: These are the really bad boys! Not only does it raise the bad LDL and lowers the good HDL - it raises the bad 2 points for every 1 point it lowers the good! So, for example, if your total cholesterol goes up 2 points from trans fats ... it has gone up 4 points in the bad, and down 2 points in the good. Opposite of what we would like to have happen!

MYTH: Trans fats only come from hyrogenated oils. The truth is, it is also found naturally in the fats, milk and milk products of ruminant animals (cattle, goats, sheep, bison, water buffalo, yak, deer, antelope, etc.) and from some research articles I have found it can run as high as 1% - 4% of the total fat content. Pork, chicken, duck and goose fat may have cholesterol, but they don't have any trans fats!

I've tried to keep it simple ... so I'm sure I've left something out.


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## Andy M. (Jan 22, 2008)

Good info, Michael.  Thanks.


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## Alix (Jan 22, 2008)

Thanks Andy and Michael, you are always my go to guys for stuff. I'm still snickering at the deliberate poisoning thing...Dang! Foiled again!


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## Michael in FtW (Jan 22, 2008)

Alix said:


> Thanks Andy and Michael, you are always my go to guys for stuff. I'm still snickering at the deliberate poisoning thing...Dang! Foiled again!


 
Oh, drat! *Now* I know what I forgot ... about 300-500+ pages discussing the differences in fatty acids (short, medium, long, very long) and how they are mixed, matched and attached to the glycerol backbone ... and what those differences mean to nutrition. 

There are the basics - the "indepth" story gets a little more complicated ...


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## wysiwyg (Jan 22, 2008)

One reminder relative to labels we daily see on food and may overlook:

*FDA defines Fat-Free as 0.5 g or less per serving.* 
The point is, just because it says is Fat-Free it may not be completely, pure 100% free.
As an example, don't use half of the Fat-Free salad dressing bottle in every meal because you will be consuming a lot of fat.

The same rationale applies to Calories, Sugar, Sodium, etc.


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## mitmondol (Jan 22, 2008)

The only thing I have to say (and I just KNOW I will be the evil here), I seriously DO NOT believe in the whole fat free etc thing.
In my opinion I live only once.
I will die, no matter what I do.
So, as long as I live I will enjoy every food, however "bad" it might be, because what in the heck am I trying to preserve myself for?!
I will go one day, and so will you all. So enjoy as long as you can for cryin' out loud!!


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## Michael in FtW (Jan 22, 2008)

LOL - you're *really* close wysiwyg - the FDA labeling guidelines are based on the "per serving unit volume/weight" being *LESS* than 0.5 - mg, g, %, etc. Of course that means a lot based on the funky "rounding rules" - you can round 2.4999 "down" to 2.0, but you don't have to round 0.499999 "up" to 0.5.

mit - all things in moderation ... you can live longer and enjoy more that way.


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## GotGarlic (Jan 23, 2008)

Maverick2272 said:


> I wonder if we are missing the point here? I use many different oils for my cooking: canola, corn, olive, vegetable, and now I am hearing about cottonseed.
> Trying to keep track of what is what, yes you do need fats, but these fats are unhealthy, etc is getting confusing. And with each oil manufacturer trying to sabotage the next, it only makes it worse.



The way to get reliable information is to get it from the government or institutions of higher learning, not from manufacturers.



Maverick2272 said:


> Then there are the so-called health gurus: This causes cancer, oh wait no it doesnt, well it might. Butter is bad get margarine, oh wait thats bad too, and on and on seems like these guys can neve make up thier minds.



It's not a matter of making up one's mind - the fact is, science is always evolving. People would naturally rather have one answer that never changes, but as new research techniques are developed (DNA sequencing, for example) and new information is obtained (scientists didn't have the human genome mapped out 20 years ago), some conclusions are going to change in response. All we can do is go by the best current information, and, as you say, everything in moderation.



Maverick2272 said:


> But, one message has stayed constant thru all this: moderation moderation moderation.
> IE cooking with oils and consuming fatty foods ALL the time = bad bad bad
> IE cooking _sometimes_ with oils and _sometimes_ fatty foods = OK, keep working on it
> IE cooking with oils only when it enhances the taste and not just cause you like fried, and consuming healthy foods alot more than fatty foods = good job
> ...



I cook with oils when sauteeing and searing, too, but in smaller amounts. I rarely fry anything myself - it's too messy  But I occasionally indulge in fried chicken or fish or French fries when out to dinner. And I adore tempura shrimp and veggies


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## Fisher's Mom (Jan 23, 2008)

GotGarlic said:


> I cook with oils when sauteeing and searing, too, but in smaller amounts. I rarely fry anything myself - it's too messy  But I occasionally indulge in fried chicken or fish or French fries when out to dinner. And I adore tempura shrimp and veggies


Me, too. I thought I was just really lazy but I hate cleaning out the oil and then trying to find some way to get rid of the used oil. It's easier to just go out to eat when I get a real urge for something fried.


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## Caine (Jan 23, 2008)

mitmondol said:


> I will go one day, and so will you all. So enjoy as long as you can for cryin' out loud!!


 
I eat healthful foods because, while I may die some day, I plan on making that day an extremely long way away, and in order to enjoy living that long, I will need to be healthy. Being physically or mentally handicapped(morally handicapped, I can handle) because you didn't eat right and exercise will make your life seem extremely long, regardless of how old you are when you die.

As for fats, you need fats to, among other things, lubricate your joints and transport fat soluable viatmins throughout your body. To be in balance, your diet should consist of 40% complex carbohydrates, 30% protein, and 30% fat, with less than 10% of that being saturated fat.


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## DramaQueen (Jan 23, 2008)

Caine said:


> I eat healthful foods because, while I may die some day, I plan on making that day an extremely long way away, and in order to enjoy living that long, I will need to be healthy. Being physically or mentally handicapped(morally handicapped, I can handle) because you didn't eat right and exercise will make your life seem extremely long, regardless of how old you are when you die.
> 
> As for fats, you need fats to, among other things, lubricate your joints and transport fat soluable viatmins throughout your body. To be in balance, your diet should consist of 40% complex carbohydrates, 30% protein, and 30% fat, with less than 10% of that being saturated fat.


 
*I couldn't agree more.  Eating well and getting rid of processed foods will keep you healthy and ward off so many ailments that are caused by bad diet.   Why take chances when it's so easy to remain healthy as long as you can.  There are enough things that can go wrong with the human body  all by itself - why  add to the problems?*


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## Maverick2272 (Jan 23, 2008)

*Jmho*

GotGarlic:

Many good points, but I wouldn't list the government as a good source to get unbiased information from and I dont have much faith these days in University, etc. I usually use a mixture of first hand knowledge, information provided by others with first hand knowledge and the following with a grain of salt: institutions, independent entities, manufacturers, etc. governments I list last as they seem so easily swayed by lobbyists and money interests.
Yes science is evolving, but that isn't why they are waffling so much. Mostly it is because some manufacturer rushed the product onto the market to beat others, or to meet a trend (like lo cal lo fat lo carb organic free range etc which when used by manufacturers could mean almost anything), or some opportunist is jumping on the latest bandwagon and pushing something for their own profit.
None of these have anything to do with the evolution of science or even science in general. And when science says this is good, then says its bad, then says its good, well thats not evolution either, thats called a good old fashioned mistake.

I don't mean this to sound so harsh, just trying to express my opinion and view but sometimes its hard when airing them to avoid sounding a little rigid, but forgive me anyway  Anyway like I said you make some good points and have given me some things to think about, thank you.

I agree with the deep frying thing. I don't do it that often as I hate the mess. As for the left over oil I strain it, pour it into an empty contain and store it for later use. Often times though, since I don't deep fry that much and I don't consider oil once used for that fit for other things, it ends up going rancid anyway.

And the wife and I love tempura as well!


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## Andy M. (Jan 23, 2008)

Maverick2272 said:


> ...I usually use a mixture of first hand knowledge, information provided by others with first hand knowledge and the following with a grain of salt: institutions, independent entities, manufacturers, etc. governments I list last as they seem so easily swayed by lobbyists and money interests...


 

I think you are wise to be skeptical about some sources. 

However, putting your first-hand (non-scientific) knowledge and that of others (also non-scientifically derived?) ahead of reliably derived scientific facts, seems reckless.  How can you compare your first-hand observations to scientifically derived data from the USDA, for example?


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## Maverick2272 (Jan 23, 2008)

Some of the sources I do use also use scientifically derived data, but growing up in farm country I have seen first hand just how 'scientific' the USDA can be. I take them with a grain of salt, IE most times they can be relied on but I would recommend double checking what they say for yourself.
It is one of my shortcomings, I am often not very clear in what I am writing. I know what I want to say, just doesn't come out right all the time. But yes I do believe in scientific data, I guess bottom line I am just saying I hesitate to take them at face value rather prefer to 'shop' around and try and get a bigger picture.
By nature I am also a very skeptical person, so often I find myself just kinda 'brushing' past all the commotion and just sticking to my 'moderation and balance' ideals and hoping for the best, LOL.
Something like that, anyway


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## Andy M. (Jan 23, 2008)

I, too, am skeptical of information unless I am comfortable with the source.  Given all the garbage people try to pass off as fact on the internet, that's a wise approach.

I rely on double checking to verify info.  If two or more "reliable" sources say so I'm more inclined to accept it.

I also believe moderation is the key to success.  I wish I could be consistent in living moderately, but like Benjamin Franklin, I don't always practice what I preach.


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## Maverick2272 (Jan 23, 2008)

*Go Ben Go*

Then yourself, Ben, and I all have something in common!


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