# Hand kneading vs. stand-mixer



## chef miriam (Jan 28, 2008)

How do I convert hand kneading time to stand-mixer kneading time?


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## TATTRAT (Jan 28, 2008)

Welcome to DC.

All I can say is, just look at the dough. 

A machine mixed dough is going to come together a lot quicker then hand. Once the dough is reaching a ball stage and pulling clean, count to 5 and kill it. 

Both hands, and machines, can over work a dough. Depending on the recipe, you might want to work the gluten more/less.


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## Wart (Jan 28, 2008)

What kind of mixer?

Over kneading by hand takes a bit of effort.

Over kneading with a machine is real easy.

After years of hand kneading the most difficult thing about using a machine is how little time the machine takes to complete the task.

What TAT wrote, just keep an eye on it.


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## suziquzie (Jan 28, 2008)

I end up doing both. 
I get the majority of the flour into it in the mixer (kitchenaid) with the dough hook, then when it gets close to looking finished I take it out and finish it off by hand, so I can make sure it feels right before I add too much more flour.


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## radhuni (Jan 28, 2008)

I never used machine for kneading, because I have heard that the dough kneaded with machine is very soft and not suitable for preparing roti, chapati or puri, is that right?


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## Wart (Jan 28, 2008)

radhuni said:


> I never used machine for kneading, because I have heard that the dough kneaded with machine is very soft and not suitable for preparing roti, chapati or puri, is that right?




I suppose you could make a batch and see how it works for you.

Been my (limited) experience doughs from a machine are softer, if too soft for a flat bread ... can't tell you.


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## Michael in FtW (Jan 28, 2008)

A lot depends on the stand mixer ... but when I make bread using my Kitchenaid - after the dough comes together and pulls away from the bowl then I let it got for 5-7 minutes to knead the dough. If you stop when the dough just first pulls away from the bowl it is just mixed - not kneaded.

The dough-hook does what you do by hand kneading - it presses and stretches the dough to mix the glutenine and gliadin in flour to produce gluten.


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## fliggie (Jan 28, 2008)

I use my KA for kneading anymore, and it doesn't take as long....how long depends on the bread I am making. In general, as stated, 5 to 7 minutes after it pulls from the wall of the bowl.


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## archiduc (Jan 29, 2008)

*hand v. mixer dough*



chef miriam said:


> How do I convert hand kneading time to stand-mixer kneading time?


 
The person you need to contact is: "Paulthebread" on the BBC TV message board. He has forgotten more about bread and doughs than the rest of us will ever know or learn in our life time! You will find him helpful, supportive and encouraging of all your efforts.

Goggle: bbc.tv.  -  click on bbc.co.ukhomepage.

Scroll down on the left to "LIFESTYLE", click on FOOD.

Click on MESSAGEBOARD - located on the top right.

Join up and when all due process have been followed, ask your question. I would suggest that you let Paulthebread know what flour and yeast type and ratios of flour to yeast(type) you are using and maybe the liquid. A photo of the mixer you are using may help. 

Hope to see you on the other messageboard,
Archiduc


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## milkdemcows (Jan 30, 2008)

Jeffrey Hamelman from King Arthur Flour for a stand mixer like Kitchen Aid suggests 2.5 minutes on first speed and 4-5 minutes on second, which is 900 to 1000 revolutions (he also gives times for Spiral, Planetary, and Oblique mixers, but I think you'd most likely be a restaurant or bakery to have those).  So maybe you could figure out how long it takes you to press the dough 900 times to do a conversion, lol (I'm not at all sure though that one mixer revolution compares to one press while hand kneading).

He also gives the dough a "fold" during rising - folding in upon itself to give more gluten development, which somewhat compensates for less development in the mixer.  A dough underworked during kneading can be brought up to par by an extra fold too.


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## tdiprincess (Jan 30, 2008)

suziquzie said:


> I end up doing both.
> I get the majority of the flour into it in the mixer (kitchenaid) with the dough hook, then when it gets close to looking finished I take it out and finish it off by hand, so I can make sure it feels right before I add too much more flour.



I do the same thing! The machine gets it all together quick but then I kill it and knead it myself..
besides kneading by hand is a good workout!!


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## Katie H (Jan 30, 2008)

It's interesting this thread should show up now.  I just received my March & April issue of _Cook's Illustrated._ The first discussion on page 2 is how to convert stand mixer-kneading to hand-kneading.

Their conclusion was that overall the differences were minimal.  They concluded that machine-kneading and hand-kneading times are the same.

I can't really weigh in on this discussion because I almost exclusively use my bread machine to do the kneading of my yeast doughs, on the recommendation of the staff bakers at King Arthur Flour.


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## capslock (Feb 1, 2008)

I have the same question!


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