# Why do steakhouses ask me to cut my steak right away?



## danbuter (Mar 2, 2012)

Over the last year or so, every time I go into a steakhouse (multiple restaurants), the server asks me to cut into the steak right away. I know they want to make sure it's done, but it's really bad if you want your steak to taste good, as steak needs to sit for 10 minutes or so. I wish this would stop.


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## Andy M. (Mar 2, 2012)

danbuter said:


> Over the last year or so, every time I go into a steakhouse (multiple restaurants), the server asks me to cut into the steak right away. I know they want to make sure it's done, but it's really bad if you want your steak to taste good, as steak needs to sit for 10 minutes or so. I wish this would stop.




Do you ask for it to be very rare or very well done?  If so, maybe they want to know if it's right so they don't have to deal with it later.


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## danbuter (Mar 2, 2012)

Medium rare. The ONLY way to eat steak.


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## Hammster (Mar 2, 2012)

I believe restaurants allow the steak to rest in the kitchen. You don't need to let it rest when it comes to your table. If the server wants you to cut into it right away, it's to check if the doneness is to your satisfaction. What this really means is they don't trust the person cooking the steaks and they've likely had plenty of steaks returned to the kitchen because they weren't the right doneness. I've never been asked to do this and likely would ask the server why if they did ask me to do it. Is this a Pennsylvania thing to ask customers to cut into a steak to verify doneness? You say multiple restaurants. Were they all the same chain?


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## Hammster (Mar 2, 2012)

danbuter said:


> Medium rare. The ONLY way to eat steak.


I have to disagree (only slightly, and mostly in jest). Mid rare is borderline overdone in my book. Blue to rare works for me. Although I wouldn't turn away a mid rare steak.


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## danbuter (Mar 2, 2012)

Hoss's and Texas Roadhouse both ask. I think one or two other more general purpose restaurants ask, as well, though I can't name them right now (poor memory).


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## GLC (Mar 2, 2012)

Here's a very interesting essay for prospective waiters on steaks. It offers some good insights on the difference between waiting at a competent restaurant and a less than competent one. 

Steak and meat temperatures « So You Want To Be A Waiter

Excerpt:

_Should a waiter ask for the guest to cut into their steak to “make sure it’s cooked the way you like”? Opinion is divided on this. My thought is that you’re admitting that your kitchen might not be able to hit the desired temperature. Better to ask if “everything is cooked to your liking” at the first check-back (no later than 3 minutes after service). And don’t ask if the steaks are cooked that way – just ask “if everything” is cooked correctly. It’s best not to show concern about a specific product. However, as always, follow your house policies on this._


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## FrankZ (Mar 2, 2012)

I usually only get asked to cut the steak right away when I have sent my overcooked steak back.

I am picky and like mine rarer than most people.


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## taxlady (Mar 2, 2012)

Thanks GLC, that was interesting.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 2, 2012)

Hammster said:


> I believe restaurants allow the steak to rest in the kitchen. You don't need to let it rest when it comes to your table. If the server wants you to cut into it right away, it's to check if the doneness is to your satisfaction. What this really means is they don't trust the person cooking the steaks and they've likely had plenty of steaks returned to the kitchen because they weren't the right doneness.



I don't see how any reasonable person could think otherwise.

I like the solution proposed later in the topic: the waiter should check back in 3 minutes and ask if "everything" is okay without specifically mentioning the check. Then they won't erode the customer's trust in kitchen competence.


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## jennyema (Mar 2, 2012)

I've never once been asked to cut it right away.

But a good waiter or waitres will come back quickly and confirm that it was cooked properly.


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## taxlady (Mar 2, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> I usually only get asked to cut the steak right away when I have sent my overcooked steak back.
> 
> ...



+1


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## Steve Kroll (Mar 2, 2012)

I honestly don't remember the last time I ordered steak in a restaurant. Steak is one of those things that, at least to me, always seems to taste far better when cooked at home - not to mention it costs about a third of the price.

And if it's overcooked at home, at least I know where the buck stops.


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## PolishedTopaz (Mar 2, 2012)

*Ok......this is a HUGE waitstaff peeve of mine. IMO a good server should NEVER ask "is everything is ok?" as the implication is obvious.....they are unsure of the back of the house. *
*When the server comes back to the table, if the food is not being eaten then CLEARLY things are not OK. Waitstaff should be trained to ask "can I bring you anything at this time?" As this conveys confidence in the people doing the preparing of the meal. *
*And I have never been asked to cut my steak or begin eating my meal while a server is standing by. That would make me very uncomfortable*


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 2, 2012)

jennyema said:


> I've never once been asked to cut it right away.
> 
> But a good waiter or waitres will come back quickly and confirm that it was cooked properly.



+1


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## roadfix (Mar 2, 2012)

which brings me to one of my favorite restaurant scenes from a movie...

Rare Steak - No Reservations... - YouTube


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## GLC (Mar 2, 2012)

PolishedTopaz said:


> *Ok......this is a HUGE waitstaff peeve of mine. IMO a good server should NEVER ask "is everything is ok?" as the implication is obvious.....they are unsure of the back of the house. *
> *When the server comes back to the table, if the food is not being eaten then CLEARLY things are not OK. Waitstaff should be trained to ask "can I bring you anything at this time?" As this conveys confidence in the people doing the preparing of the meal. *
> *And I have never been asked to cut my steak or begin eating my meal while a server is standing by. That would make me very uncomfortable*



A truly expert career professional waiter is hard to find these days. T'was a time when they were common, and not just in stupidly expensive venues.


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## Soma (Mar 2, 2012)

Yeah, roadfix, I was thinking of just that scene in the movie when I was reading this post, haha.


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## CraigC (Mar 2, 2012)

Steve Kroll said:


> I honestly don't remember the last time I ordered steak in a restaurant. Steak is one of those things that, at least to me, always seems to taste far better when cooked at home - not to mention it costs about a third of the price.
> 
> And if it's overcooked at home, at least I know where the buck stops.


 
Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time I ordered a steak out. I prefer the way I cook it at home. I don't know the one place (Hoss) the OP mentioned, but as far as Texas Roadhouse goes, might as well be Golden Corral or Denny's.


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## taxlady (Mar 2, 2012)

A friend of mine says to walk the cow through the kitchen and show it the grill.


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## FrankZ (Mar 2, 2012)

CraigC said:


> Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time I ordered a steak out. I prefer the way I cook it at home. I don't know the one place (Hoss) the OP mentioned, but as far as Texas Roadhouse goes, might as well be Golden Corral or Denny's.




I think that is unfair.  The Texas Roadhouses I have been to have used a much better quality of meat than Denny's or Golden Corral.


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## 4meandthem (Mar 2, 2012)

I usually order a rib-eye if I am eating a steak in a restaurant.
When asked "How would you like it cooked" my reply is
"The way it comes off the grill". It has always come to me med-medium rare. I also like them rare and med well. I just think of them as different steaks that are all tasty. I would send back a steak for toughness before doneness.

I can see being picky if you are spending a premium price at premium steak house like mortons, but I bet they don't screw up too often.


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## LindaZ (Mar 2, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> I usually only get asked to cut the steak right away when I have sent my overcooked steak back.
> 
> I am picky and like mine rarer than most people.


 
Ya think?


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## FrankZ (Mar 2, 2012)

4meandthem said:


> I can see being picky if you are spending a premium price at premium steak house like mortons, but I bet they don't screw up too often.



First time I at at Ruth's Chris they overcooked my steak.  That 700F plate they toss it on will do that ya know.  They did make it disappear and brought a new one faster than you can recite Suzy Sell Seashells.....




LindaZ said:


> Ya think?




Usually... Sometimes I forget to and it always causes trouble.  Wonder where I get that...


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## 4meandthem (Mar 2, 2012)

FrankZ....
Have you ever had a wagyu steak? (Marketed as American Kobe)
We have a steakhouse here that specializes in it. My nephew was the chef there for a while. A la carte the steak was 50+ bucks and side were about 12. They brought us 1 of everything including desserts to try. We only paid for the wine and steaks and the bill was still 300 bucks. I have only had those steaks twice but OMG they put everything else to shame so far.We couldn't eat for 2 days after that. The restaurant has a infrared oven they cook the steaks in that gets over 1000 degress if I remember. It cooks the steak in just a minute or two.

One of my top ten dining experiences.They get quite a few people who will eat them raw or just warmed.


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## LindaZ (Mar 2, 2012)

> Usually... Sometimes I forget to and it always causes trouble. Wonder where I get that...


 

Your father, definitely your father.


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## Whiskadoodle (Mar 2, 2012)

DB--  If you are familiar with the restaurant and you know they will want you to cut into it before you are ready,  Keep your salad plate firmly in front of you, they will be forced to set the steak to the side.  Slowly finish the salad and by the time they check back,  the steak will have rested a sufficient time.  It helps if you eat your salad slowly to begin with.   

I also think it's ok to request they check back if you are not ready to cut into your steak for whatever reason.  

Personally,  I like medium rare.  It's unlikely I would send it back if it's close to that.   I've certainly overcooked enough at  home.  However,  If I am paying someone else at a higher price,  they should cook it as specified.   Which is probably what the server has been instructed to do by management to help determine their cooking quality.


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## Skittle68 (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm a server at Red Lobster, and we are instructed to ask the customer to cut into the steak to make sure it is done to their liking. That way if it isn't, we can fix the problem that much faster. I also ask at the two minute check back how they are liking everything, even though I assume everything will be fine. I don't think asking implies that I expect anything to be wrong. I have had a couple customers politely decline to cut into their steak, and that is fine too. Then I just ask when I check back if everything is prepared to their liking.  

One of our grill masters consistently wins our regional grill master competitions, and competes at a national level. I certainly have confidence in her abilities, but that doesn't mean mistakes are not possible, and I would rather catch them sooner rather than later. 

Oh, and when I ask the customer to check the steak I phrase it, "Would you like to cut into the steak right away to make sure it's done to your liking?" so that they have the open option to say no thank you.

Whiskadoodle- I don't think you need to do anything more than decline to cut into the steak and ask the server to check back. Even if they set the plate to the side of the salad bowl, they will probably still ask you to cut into it if that is what they are instructed to do. That doesn't mean you have to do so if you would rather wait. It's your dinner, and we servers just want to make sure you have the best possible dinner, and the best possible experience.


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## taxlady (Mar 2, 2012)

Skittle, do you know if the steaks rest in the kitchen, before being served?

Good point about possible mistakes. I could have gotten somebody elses steak by accident.


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## Skittle68 (Mar 2, 2012)

taxlady said:
			
		

> Skittle, do you know if the steaks rest in the kitchen, before being served?
> 
> Good point about possible mistakes. I could have gotten somebody elses steak by accident.



Yes, I have had two steaks get mixed up before. It happens. We have one of the highest volume red lobsters in MN, so unfortunately it's a numbers game. Of course we try not to screw things up, but it happens  In our restaurant, we do not make a point to let the steaks rest. We try to plate everything as close to the same time as possible, and get it to the table as fresh and hot as we can.


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## Hammster (Mar 2, 2012)

Skittle68 said:


> In our restaurant, we do not make a point to let the steaks rest.


 
And why I wouldn't order steak at Red Lobster.
If you have to ask me to do the chef's job, then I don't need to eat steak at your establishment.
Just last night we had steak at a fine dining place here in Idyllwild. Not a word was mentioned or a question asked about doneness of the steak. And, yes, I know Red Lobster isn't a fine dining place, but they should still employ people who can properly cook meat. It ain't that hard, really.
Believe it or not, I go to Coco's for their meat. They cook it right every time. Seriously, it ain't hard. Now, veggies there are another issue. Yeesh.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 2, 2012)

I think the restaurant should know their business, should know how to cook a steak, and should bring it when it's ready. They should respect that the customer knows his business too, how to eat a steak, and should just bring it and check back after a short period to see if the customer is satisfied. If the customer wants to cut into it or not that's up to the customer.

I don't order steak out very often because it's just too easy to cook at home and I'd rather order something I can't or won't cook for myself. However all through the years I've almost never been served a steak that wasn't exactly the medium rare that I order. IMO a restaurant that messes up cooking steaks isn't going to stay in business very long. It's easy to put on a bit more heat but they obviously have to throw it away if it's too well done. Either way the customer is annoyed with the wait, and isn't likely to return if dissatisfied.


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## CraigC (Mar 2, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> I think that is unfair. The Texas Roadhouses I have been to have used a much better quality of meat than Denny's or Golden Corral.


 
Different locations. The quality of meat doesn't excuse the inability to cook a steak properly to order!


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## roadfix (Mar 2, 2012)

Man, all this steak talk's gotten me craving for some good red meat.  I'm picking up a nice hunk of meat on my way home tonight.  Good thread.


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## Margi Cintrano (Mar 3, 2012)

*Blue Rare Woman 100%*

I am a Blue Rare Woman 100% when it comes to my steaks. I also love Steak Tartar.

*** How do you steak tartar ? 


Good Post.
Thanks.
Margi.


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## Claire (Mar 3, 2012)

Funny how we all think differently.  I've never had anyone ask me to cut into my steak at a restaurant, and never thought about it.  _But_, I'm with Margi on blue steaks (the first time I heard that description for very rare I cracked up)(It was a French waiter in Hawaii, if I asked for my steak blue around here they'd ... well, they already think I'm a little crazy, this would erase all doubt).  I want it seared on the outside, warm through, and that's it.  Anyway, I'd prefer the waiter ask than to have to return the steak.  You can put an undercooked steak back on the grill, but you cannot uncook a too-well-done steak.  SO I never bother to return a steak that for me is over-done.  By the time I get my meal, the rest of the table is done.  If it is a place I plan on returning, then I make my displeasure known to owner, manager, or maitre d' (I've finally lived somewhere long enough that I can actually wait and do this at a different time so I don't cast a pall on our dinner party).  If I'm just passing through, I don't bother.  A waiter asking me to cut into it might actually give the restaurant time to grill me another steak (or put someone whose might be under-done back on) before the entire table is finishing their meal.  

I rarely do a good steak at home simply because the quality of the steaks is better at restaurants, and since I don't do them often at home, I'm worse at judging the steak's done-ness than any restaurant!  

I can't see finding a waiter's "Is everything OK?" as an insult.  It sure as heck beats having a person at the table wanting another drink and having to crane your neck to find your waiter.  If I didn't want the attention of a waiter, I'd eat at home.  I like eating out, and want that attention.  

Now, this is with the understanding that I'm not talking $100+/plate restaurants where you have a waiter dedicated to your table or maybe one other, with no turnover, and all the chefs are that, high end.  There's no place like that in the entire tri-state area (and, yes, I've been to them).  

And, Margi, I LOVE steak tartare and carpacio.


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## CWS4322 (Mar 3, 2012)

When I worked as a waitress, we were told to go back to the table after serving steak to confirm it was done to the degree of doneness requested. My idea of rare/medium rare may be different than another person's. When I do a roast, which I want on the bloody side of medium rare, I take it out when it registers rare on the meat thermometer. I cover it with foil and finish getting things ready. I do the same with steaks. If I must say so myself, I make a perfect medium rare roast and repeat that success when it comes to steaks. My DH, on the other hand, wants his to resemble shoe leather. Needless to say, he has to nuke his slices of roast and leave his steak on the grill.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 3, 2012)

6 People, a 10" frying pan and 4 levels to cook to, I was good at it as a kid, learned to enjoy rare because by the time I finished the other 5 I was starving, would barely get my steak warm in the pan.

During my time in the college cafeteria, I was able to show the manager that he _could_ cook steak to order for a crowd that big.  (1500-2000 students in two hours)


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## FrankZ (Mar 3, 2012)

CraigC said:


> Different locations. The quality of meat doesn't excuse the inability to cook a steak properly to order!



Yeah... So it is Denny's, Golden Coral, Texas Roadhouse and Ruth's Chris.. just a bunch of crap places to eat.  All the same.  Horrible..

I don't think there is a restaurant I have ordered steak at more than once that I haven't had to send it back for being overcooked.

The nice bit about that is, hey, I don't pay for the recooks.


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## FrankZ (Mar 3, 2012)

4meandthem said:


> FrankZ....
> Have you ever had a wagyu steak? (Marketed as American Kobe)
> We have a steakhouse here that specializes in it. My nephew was the chef there for a while. A la carte the steak was 50+ bucks and side were about 12. They brought us 1 of everything including desserts to try. We only paid for the wine and steaks and the bill was still 300 bucks. I have only had those steaks twice but OMG they put everything else to shame so far.We couldn't eat for 2 days after that. The restaurant has a infrared oven they cook the steaks in that gets over 1000 degress if I remember. It cooks the steak in just a minute or two.
> 
> One of my top ten dining experiences.They get quite a few people who will eat them raw or just warmed.



We have a market around here that sells them... I have eyeballed em, but $50/lb is a tad steep.  Though it is March... might be good for that special meal...


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef (Mar 3, 2012)

danbuter said:


> *Why do steakhouses ask me to cut my steak right away?*


 
It's an insurance thing. They want to make sure you are capable of handling sharp implements without hurting yourself.


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## Margi Cintrano (Mar 3, 2012)

*@ Claire: We have alot in common palate wise*

Claire,

Blue rare steak, carpacchio & steak tartar ... Oh yes ... Alot in common palate wise ...

I had never experienced a questioning by a waiter or waitress as to how my steak or meat, was ... Normally, in Spain: the waiter or waitress stands away from the table --- and observes ...  if not too busy with other tables ... 

In Italia, it is very rare that I would order steak ... Carpacchio yes ... Pasta yes ... Pizza, yes ... the specialty of a specific zone in a province yes ...  

Thanks for the interesting post and message.
Margi.


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## PolishedTopaz (Mar 3, 2012)

Claire said:


> Funny how we all think differently. I've never had anyone ask me to cut into my steak at a restaurant, and never thought about it. _But_, I'm with Margi on blue steaks (the first time I heard that description for very rare I cracked up)(It was a French waiter in Hawaii, if I asked for my steak blue around here they'd ... well, they already think I'm a little crazy, this would erase all doubt). I want it seared on the outside, warm through, and that's it. Anyway, I'd prefer the waiter ask than to have to return the steak. You can put an undercooked steak back on the grill, but you cannot uncook a too-well-done steak. SO I never bother to return a steak that for me is over-done. By the time I get my meal, the rest of the table is done. If it is a place I plan on returning, then I make my displeasure known to owner, manager, or maitre d' (I've finally lived somewhere long enough that I can actually wait and do this at a different time so I don't cast a pall on our dinner party). If I'm just passing through, I don't bother. A waiter asking me to cut into it might actually give the restaurant time to grill me another steak (or put someone whose might be under-done back on) before the entire table is finishing their meal.
> 
> I rarely do a good steak at home simply because the quality of the steaks is better at restaurants, and since I don't do them often at home, I'm worse at judging the steak's done-ness than any restaurant!
> 
> ...


 
*I don't find it insulting if I am asked this question, I just feel that it conveys uneasiness with back of the house.  *


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## Skittle68 (Mar 3, 2012)

Hammster said:
			
		

> And why I wouldn't order steak at Red Lobster.
> If you have to ask me to do the chef's job, then I don't need to eat steak at your establishment.
> Just last night we had steak at a fine dining place here in Idyllwild. Not a word was mentioned or a question asked about doneness of the steak. And, yes, I know Red Lobster isn't a fine dining place, but they should still employ people who can properly cook meat. It ain't that hard, really.
> Believe it or not, I go to Coco's for their meat. They cook it right every time. Seriously, it ain't hard. Now, veggies there are another issue. Yeesh.



You're right- red lobster is considered casual dining, and at our location our grill masters do know how to properly cook meat. In a perfect world, every steak would be done correctly, but with the number of steaks that go out it just doesn't happen every time (our restaurant seats 300-400 people at a time, and we sometimes have to stop seating people to let the kitchen catch up because they can't fit anything else on the grill, and the orders are stacking up).  I've worked there for about a year and have had to bring back three steaks. I don't think that constitutes "not knowing how to cook meat". However, I do my very best to make sure the customers are happy with everything before I walk away from the table, and that includes giving the opportunity to check your steak. In a perfect world, I would be back in exactly two minutes to make sure everyone is happy, and 9 times out of 10 I would be, but once in awhile it might be more like 5 minutes because I'm back making salads for another table or something. Your opinion isn't wrong, it is just your opinion after all, but from a servers point of view, if there is even a small chance something might be wrong, I want to find out so I can fix it right away.  I just don't see how saying, "No thank you, I'd prefer to cut into my steak later," is such a huge inconvenience.  Trying to please everyone when there is such a wide range of preferences and opinions is a really tough job, and in my opinion, being annoyed because a server asks if everything is tasting ok is a little over the top.


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## GLC (Mar 3, 2012)

Margi Cintrano said:


> I had never experienced a questioning by a waiter or waitress as to how my steak or meat, was ... Normally, in Spain: the waiter or waitress stands away from the table --- and observes ...  if not too busy with other tables ...



Because they actually seem to have a genuine interest in the customer's experience. Not a personal interest, although it can become close to that after long mutual experience. But a professional interest beyond fishing for a tip. That kind of professional doesn't have to ask if everything is good. That kind probably shortstopped any questionable food before it got to the table, not that there's likely to be a problem in a place that employs good waiters. And they most certainly don't continually intrude. The waiter is NOT a member of the dining party.


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## buckytom (Mar 3, 2012)

in my experience here near nyc, blue is not the same as rare. blue is effectively raw in the center, with maybe a tiny bit of rare just inside a barely cooked surface. the raw part should be no more than room temp. not warm.

black and blue is a well charred surface with a raw, cool center.


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## taxlady (Mar 3, 2012)

I like the French term, saignante, it means bleeding. That's how I like my steak.


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## buckytom (Mar 3, 2012)

i should add that i've never been asked to cut into a steak when it was served unless it was the second one they'd brought because of a problem with the first one.

however, almost all good waiters will ask if everything is ok, or better yet is everything to my liking, after they've seen you take a few bites of whatever you've ordered.


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## taxlady (Mar 3, 2012)

buckytom said:


> i should add that i've never been asked to cut into a steak when it was served unless it was the second one they'd brought because of a problem with the first one.
> 
> however, almost all good waiters will ask if everything is ok, or better yet is everything to my liking, after they've seen you take a few bites of whatever you've ordered.



In principle, I like the idea of the wait staff asking if everything is to my liking. But, in practice, they usually interrupt my conversation and don't listen to the answer.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 3, 2012)

It's too bad that restaurants don't have a "call waiter" button similar to the airline "call stewardess" button.


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## Dawgluver (Mar 3, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:
			
		

> It's too bad that restaurants don't have a "call waiter" button similar to the airline "call stewardess" button.



Some restaurants used to have that button!  Bishops Buffet comes to mind.


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## CraigC (Mar 3, 2012)

taxlady said:


> I like the French term, saignante, it means bleeding. That's how I like my steak.


 
No wonder the Spanish for lawyer is chubbasangre!


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## Rocklobster (Mar 3, 2012)

I have been both cook and waiter. I like to go back and simply ask "How is everything" That goes for any table which has just gotten their food for and has been eating for a couple of minutes. Usually, you get "good" then you can leave them alone for a while. As a cook, I am curious to see how they liked the steak and if something is wrong, then I have time to rectify it.


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## Margi Cintrano (Mar 3, 2012)

*Wait Staff in Mediterranean*

Thanks for all the interesting posts.

Let me explain something about wait staff and all employees in EU. Firstly:
1) all legal ( nationals and residents ) employees have a contract 
2) all wait staff are paid a decent wage  
3) a waiter, may ask is everything okay However, not to pin point about a specific product that was ordered 
4) tips are welcomed however, this is not a Mediterranean custom 
5) tipping in Spain in non Michelin normal bars, taverns, eateries and trattorias is not usual ( it is if the service was very good, and up to individual -- because they are employed and earn a decent wage )

In the USA, wait staff are paid minimum wage and thus, depend on tips; in the EU ( European Union ) this does NOT exist. 

*** In Italia, only in big cities --- not in small villages - it is same as in Spain. 

Margi.


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## FrankZ (Mar 3, 2012)

Margi Cintrano said:


> In the USA, wait staff are paid minimum wage and thus, depend on tips; in the EU ( European Union ) this does NOT exist.



Not quite so... in the US most wait staff are paid server minimum which is half of the Federal minimum wage.

When I waited tables it was the means to pay my taxes owed on tips, cover the employee pay for insurance and get a soda on pay day...


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## buckytom (Mar 3, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> It's too bad that restaurants don't have a "call waiter" button similar to the airline "call stewardess" button.



there are a few mom and pop italian places (pizza and pasta dives) here that have that button on the wall in the booths, but they have been disconnected for years.


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## Margi Cintrano (Mar 3, 2012)

Frank,

Thanks for post and feedback. However, I do not understand what you mean by paid server minimum which is half of the National wage. 

Well, this is truly uncool.
MC


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## taxlady (Mar 3, 2012)

Margi Cintrano said:


> Frank,
> 
> Thanks for post and feedback. However, I do not understand what you mean by paid server minimum which is half of the National wage.
> 
> ...



There is a minimum wage for regular jobs and a lower minimum wage for servers. Here in Quebec it is about 50 cents an hour less for wait staff than for other jobs, because they get tips.


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## FrankZ (Mar 3, 2012)

Ouch.. I just had a look.  When I was a waiter it was half the Federal minimum wage of $4.26/hr or $2.13/hr.

It is STILL $2.13/hr.. with the Federal minimum at $7.25/hr.

States and other municipalities can have a higher minimum.


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## taxlady (Mar 3, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> Ouch.. I just had a look.  When I was a waiter it was half the Federal minimum wage of $4.26/hr or $2.13/hr.
> 
> It is STILL $2.13/hr.. with the Federal minimum at $7.25/hr.
> 
> States and other municipalities can have a higher minimum.



That's outrageous.


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## Dawgluver (Mar 3, 2012)

taxlady said:
			
		

> That's outrageous.



When I was a restaurant bartender, the waitrons were supposed to give us a percentage of their tips.  They rarely did, though we still had to report tips on our tax forms.  Please tip your bartenders!


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## taxlady (Mar 3, 2012)

Dawgluver said:


> When I was a restaurant bartender, the waitrons were supposed to give us a percentage of their tips.  They rarely did, though we still had to report tips on our tax forms.  Please tip your bartenders!



I was a bartender in a night club. The waitresses were supposed to tip me. They wanted me to serve them first, not my customers. We had the occasional fight about that. When there was a slow night, they wanted to tip me less or not at all, but they never offered to pay me more on a busy night. Okay, there was one who did once.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 3, 2012)

There are two simple reasons I do not wait tables...the poor wages and I just am not cut out to be a waitress.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 3, 2012)

Dawgluver said:


> When I was a restaurant bartender, the *waitrons* were supposed to give us a percentage of their tips.  They rarely did, though we still had to report tips on our tax forms.  Please tip your bartenders!


Waitrons?


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## GLC (Mar 3, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> It's too bad that restaurants don't have a "call waiter" button similar to the airline "call stewardess" button.



Boy! Did that bring back memories. Haven't thought about this in decades, but I remember eateries with the jukebox remote units at each table.The unit also contained a waiter (waitress in those places) call button. 

And, of course, turning on the headlights to summon the carhop.


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## GLC (Mar 3, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> Waitrons?



Extreme PC, waitperson being deemed too contrived. Of course, it's now supported by language studies that gender neutral work titles actually do nothing about or aggravate sexism. The gender neutral term is perceived as representing a person of the stereotypical gender for that job, and there's no acknowledgement that the job can as well be done by the other gender. And cultures in which the language has no gender specific nouns tend to be the most abusive of women.


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## taxlady (Mar 3, 2012)

Or maybe it was just shorter than waiter/waitress and funnier than waitperson. Of course server works too.

I once saw some software that said not to use the term fireman, use fire person. That sounds like an arsonist to me. How about fire fighter?


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 3, 2012)

GLC said:


> Extreme PC, waitperson being deemed too contrived. Of course, it's now supported by language studies that gender neutral work titles actually do nothing about or aggravate sexism. The gender neutral term is perceived as representing a person of the stereotypical gender for that job, and there's no acknowledgement that the job can as well be done by the other gender. And cultures in which the language has no gender specific nouns tend to be the most abusive of women.



Well of course I figured it out. I should have used a winkie in my post. 

I don't know anything about gender neutral titles encouraging or discouraging sexism. I think focusing on gendered titles tends to be overly simplistic. As if we only changed all the titles to gender neutral then sexism would disappear.

That is an interesting concept that "cultures in which the language has no gender specific nouns tend to be the most abusive of women." It would make a good PhD thesis.



taxlady said:


> Or maybe it was just shorter than waiter/waitress and funnier than waitperson. Of course server works too.
> 
> I once saw some software that said not to use the term fireman, use fire person. That sounds like an arsonist to me. How about fire fighter?



I like the title "server." It's gender neutral without appearing contrived. And here in the PC state of CA the FD people are always called firefighters now.

Funny your mention of 'arsonist,' there was a recent case where fires were being set in Hollywood and the Valley, and many of the news media conspicuously used in their reports "an arsonist or arsoness." I didn't even know there was a gender specific title for a woman who feloniously starts fires.


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## Dawgluver (Mar 3, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:
			
		

> Waitrons?



Actually, it was a title they gave themselves!  Male and female.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 3, 2012)

Dawgluver said:


> Actually, it was a title they gave themselves!  Male and female.



I think they should have waitrons and waitronesses.


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## PolishedTopaz (Mar 3, 2012)

*What a hot topic this became! How fun!!!!*
*I think that servers here in the US are so unappreciated and more often than not either abused by back of house or by patrons, it is a tough job and thankless as well.*
*This puts me in the mindset that EVERY PERSON {be you pauper or prince} should be a server for a full month in a DINER. With the intention to learn how to treat and more importantly how NOT to treat people. *


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 3, 2012)

PolishedTopaz said:


> *What a hot topic this became! How fun!!!!*
> *I think that servers here in the US are so unappreciated and more often than not either abused by back of house or by patrons, it is a tough job and thankless as well.*
> *This puts me in the mindset that EVERY PERSON {be you pauper or prince} should be a server for a full month in a DINER. With the intention to learn how to treat and more importantly how NOT to treat people. *



Maybe every server should be forced to eat out every night and pay a 20% tip for poor service. Maybe they would start to gain an appreciation for why customers take a certain level of service for granted, and deduct then the service is slow, when the steak is poorly cooked, or when the food is lame. There is no way for the patron (or patroness) to indicate poor food quality except by reducing the tip, or eliminating it.

(Oh yeah you can demand the head chef or owner. I've done that. You often get the next visit free. I don't get off on that. I don't want free food for poor service/cooking.)


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## Andy M. (Mar 3, 2012)

Threads about what happens in restaurants always get a lot of attention.  Everybody has an opinion because everybody eats out.


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## Claire (Mar 3, 2012)

Margi, some states do not apply national minimum wage to a category of workers.  It used to be called something like domestics, I think, and you (restaurant owner) simply did not have to pay minimum wage.  Ironically, you (wait staff) were taxed at minimum wage and a presumptive amount the state/country _thinks_ you are making (i.e., tips).  This was the case when I had my one experience working as a waitress in Virginia in 1977.  You basically worked for tips.  I don't know how it works now (anyone chime in here), but I know it varies from state to state.  THEN, to make it more odd, some restaurants have the policy of all tips being pooled and divided.  So lousy waiter makes the same tips as good waiter as bartender as bus person.  Real incentive, huh?  AND, to make it worse, a couple of owners here in town have the reputation of swooping down and collecting half the collected tips for the night.  

I have a friend who did quite well over many years of being a waitress with good bosses and good coworkers.  But you couldn't pay me to do it again. Hard physical labor and few rewards.

Oh, and Virginia became a national minimum wage state many years ago.  But I'm not sure all are.


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## PolishedTopaz (Mar 3, 2012)

to make it worse, a couple of owners here in town have the reputation of swooping down and collecting half the collected tips for the night

*@ Cllare,,,,,,,,,There is a tiny Mexican {American owned} place a few towns away from me that seats 40 including the bar. When the owner tends the bar the servers have to tip him out. I went one night and had no choice but to sit at his bar, I LOVE the staff, but the owner is....well..... I did not tip him in spite of having eaten a full meal. The next time I went, I had a conversation with my favorite person there, {the bartender} turned out that the owner said something to her about it. She said that he must have " got me PO'ed" because she ALWAYS tips me great! *


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## taxlady (Mar 3, 2012)

I've always been told that it is rude to tip the owner. But, I don't follow that. When I get my hair done, my stylist is one of the two owners and I always tip him. He doesn't act like he thinks that is rude.


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## Dawgluver (Mar 3, 2012)

taxlady said:
			
		

> I've always been told that it is rude to tip the owner. But, I don't follow that. When I get my hair done, my stylist is one of the two owners and I always tip him. He doesn't act like he thinks that is rude.



You are correct, TL.  My mom and Miss Manners said the same thing.  Though I tip the restaurant owners if they serve us.  Don't need to tip my hairdresser, as DH is the one who cuts my hair!


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## GLC (Mar 3, 2012)

The chronic ineptitude of waiters in the U.S. isn't entirely the fault of the wait staff. The American desire to be stuffed to the gills cheaply with food service preparations of cuisine d' micro-onde doesn't leave much room in the business model for professional wait staff who make enough money to motivate them to become expert. Nor are many owners going to invest a lot of effort in developing a fine waiter when the job is often seen and taken as temporary or merely having a convenient schedule for students. So even in well run restaurants where the waiters are trained to the local standard, it's not much of a standard. We probably get pretty much what we deserve, amateur waiters and being hustled out quickly to make room for the next customer. 

We just don't have an expectation that, throughout the land, we will find good, small local restaurants where the food is selected and cooked by a thoroughly competent minor league chef and served with quiet style. Our spending priorities are not attuned to routinely eating out well. The corporate chain can't deliver it in their silly establishments decorated with license plates and wall to wall objets de junque and can merely load a 12-inch plate with mediocre grub. The small town places can't deliver it with Joe the fry cook in the kitchen with the one-fryer-for-all and five-gallon carton of sausage gravy and Brytannee the future dental assistant waiting tables. 

At a down home local level, about the only restaurants that I find having decent wait staff are good small Mexican food places. I've never had any of them try to introduce themselves by name, as if we might become good friends, with the entirely superfluous information that they will be serving tonight. The order gets taken, the tea glasses and chip baskets and salsa bowls are kept full without comment, a brief eye contact brings them over, and there is no "anything else?" question as a veiled announcement that it's time to move on.


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## Claire (Mar 4, 2012)

I, too, somewhere along the line learned it was wrong to tip the owner.  But there's a big difference between, say, the owners of a restaurant, and the barber/hairdresser.  I wouldn't dream of tipping the guy who owns the restaurant if he happens by.  On the other hand, the gal who cuts my hair owns the place, and I always tip her.  Perhaps it is because it is a no middle-man situation.  The restaurant owners I know are either quite well off, or at least want to give that impression.  They actually "tip" me, truth be told; with occaisional free rounds of drinks and meals.  

I also don't believe the server should be penalized for anything besides poor service.  If the food is bad, through no fault of the server, or the server is obviously overworked because the management doesn't want to pay for more employees, then you should not return or complain to management, not stiff the server.  

One time we were taking my parents for a lovely brunch at a very nice, pricey place we'd been before.  Our service was absolutely appalling in the first 20 or 30 minutes.  We finally got a waiter and a bus-boy to serve us.  It was the funniest thing.  Now, I have to tell you, our waiter was seen screwing off; smoking cigarettes out back, flirting with the waitresses and some wealthy-looking young ladies among his tables.  We wound up having excellent service (good sign of an excellent restaurant) because other employees worked extra to make sure we were taken care of. 

Husband was wonderful.  Rather than leaving the tip on the table or putting it on the tab/credit card, he took out cash, then got up and sought out the bus boy and waiter who had actually given us service, and put the cash in their hands.


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## GLC (Mar 4, 2012)

Claire said:


> I, too, somewhere along the line learned it was wrong to tip the owner.  But there's a big difference between, say, the owners of a restaurant, and the barber/hairdresser.



I don't use hair salons, so I could have it wrong. But aren't they set up like auto repair shops often are. The owner owns the shop. The mechanics or stylists split the fees for their work with the owner as a kind of rent. The owner sets the standard rate, just as the repair shop uses the labor estimator book, so everyone charges the same for same work. So when the owner does hair, they're not in the role of owner but filling a space among the stylists, so tipping them is appropriate. But I suspect you wouldn't have your hair done by one of the line stylists and then seek the owner out for a separate tip. 

I've come to see restaurant tipping as if it's just an unseen automatic extra charge for the food, just as it is a frank, stated charge for service in some countries. There's what we sometimes feel like doing, and then there's reality. The reality is that, like many other things, you're not paying for the food, you're paying for the place to be there when you want the food. That means people have to work there, and because the system is so common, they have to work there under the bare wage plus tips system. I like to encourage excellence when I can afford to, and I can usually afford the indulgence of tipping above and beyond for excellence, just as I would seek out the owner to compliment. But the basic tip is just part of the meal price. If the service or food is bad and can't be or isn't likely to be fixable on the spot, I pay up, including basic tip, and I just don't come back.


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## CraigC (Mar 4, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> Yeah... So it is Denny's, Golden Coral, Texas Roadhouse and Ruth's Chris.. just a bunch of crap places to eat. All the same. Horrible..
> 
> I don't think there is a restaurant I have ordered steak at more than once that I haven't had to send it back for being overcooked.
> 
> The nice bit about that is, hey, I don't pay for the recooks.


 
Never been to Ruth's Chris and probably never will as I prefer steak cooked on a wood fired grill. You're spot on about the rest of them! It's like choosing a place to order pizza from, conveyer belt oven not a chance. Crappy pepperoni pizza, you're done.


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