# Healthier to eat no meat at all?



## discusscookingnewbie (Oct 16, 2022)

Hi, I think if I remember right, I heard on the internet some years ago or more that it was healthier to eat no meat in your food. I know beans and nuts provide protein or a lot of protein so meat isn't really necessary to have protein in your body.


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## dragnlaw (Oct 16, 2022)

In the society that I grew up in and most of my friends, meat is an important source of protein.  I think that to be a vegetarian one almost has to take an in-depth course to understand where from, how much, which kind, etc.  one's body needs in protein.  

Animal protein is still good for you, but as in all things in life, moderation is the key answer.  

I believe one of the Scandinavian countries (don't remember which) it is actually against the law to have infants on vegetarian diets.  This came about unfortunately due to the tragic death of 2 children from mal-nutrition who's parents were vegetarian - and who did not understand the in-depth differences of types of protein necessary to the human body.   I have not gone on to investigate as to the end results of this incident and I am not being a scare monger, just saying to please be aware of consequences of something that is not part of your natural upbringing.


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## Aunt Bea (Oct 16, 2022)

It seems to me that there is enough evidence to prove that it doesn’t make much difference either way.

My main concern with the consumption of meat, fish, and poultry is the safety of the mass produced meat supply found in the average supermarket.

I still eat small quantities, compared to what I ate when I was younger, but it is mainly due to the high price vs the limited value or WOW factor that it provides in my diet.


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## GotGarlic (Oct 16, 2022)

Yes, you can get protein from nuts and beans, but it's incomplete protein, which means they don't have all the amino acids in one food, like animal protein does; and they don't contain vitamin B12, an essential nutrient. You have to combine beans with rice to get complete protein and there are a couple other things that I can't remember right now. 

It's not just about protein,, too, although animal protein is easy for the body to digest and draw nutrients from. Meat is also an excellent source of iron and B vitamins, as well as potassium. If people prefer not to eat meat, eggs and dairy products also provide high quality protein and vitamin B12.


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## blissful (Oct 16, 2022)

Wow so much false information here. I'm not angry with the false information or the people that have given it. I just believe that they didn't know, and it was a mistake, probably fed to them by the media and lack of information. Information is easily and freely available on the internet. 

There is so much overwhelming scientific evidence on nutrition and meat in particular, you must look for it and read it. (go to nutritionfacts.org and search for what you want to know about) Read The China Study for starters. If a person isn't interested in knowing, then please don't spread information that is not true. Not everyone feels that way.

For 20 years, scientific proof of cigarette smoking being bad for health was published and ignored by the public and fought by the tobacco industry. Now we see the same thing with vegan and vegetarian nutrition, 20,000 studies and fighting the meat and dairy industry, in the media.

There are not incomplete proteins in plant food and there is no need for protein combining, that theory was dis-proven more than 20 years ago. B12 is important to add to a vegan or vegetarian diet. 

The Swedish couple jailed for starving a child, had drug and alcohol problems. Please don't blame the vegan diet for what happened to the child. Some parents shouldn't have children.

And to the original question. Yes it is healthier to eat a meat free diet. A lot can be learned in the links in my signature.


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## taxlady (Oct 16, 2022)

I think that it might be healthier for some people not to eat meat and for other people to eat meat. I think a person's ancestry plays a role in that.


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## blissful (Oct 16, 2022)

This is a video that talks about plant based foods, in relation to paleo (meat) and other current diets, in general. 20 minutes long.
What Is The Proof That Plant-Based Diets Are Healthier For You Than Paleo, Keto, Atkins, And Low Carb Diets?


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## dragnlaw (Oct 17, 2022)

Research techniques change of the years.  Look at the poor egg's history. 
One moment great, next moment shunned, then all of a sudden great again.


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## blissful (Oct 17, 2022)

dragnlaw said:


> Research techniques change of the years.  Look at the poor egg's history.
> One moment great, next moment shunned, then all of a sudden great again.


Dragnlaw, often the media puts a spin on things, and if you want to know about a study, look at who is funding it, and the methods used. Ask the question, what are they comparing eggs to in the study. 








						Flashback Friday: Who Says Eggs Aren’t Healthy or Safe? | NutritionFacts.org
					

Freedom of Information Act documents reveal that the U.S. Department of Agriculture warned the egg industry that saying eggs are nutritious or safe may violate rules against false and misleading advertising.




					nutritionfacts.org


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## Roll_Bones (Oct 17, 2022)

I like meat so I eat meat.  Regardless of what anyone says.


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## GotGarlic (Oct 17, 2022)

blissful said:


> Wow so much false information here. I'm not angry with the false information or the people that have given it. I just believe that they didn't know, and it was a mistake, probably fed to them by the media and lack of information. Information is easily and freely available on the internet.
> 
> If a person isn't interested in knowing, then please don't spread information that is not true. Not everyone feels that way.


How a person "feels" is not relevant to the truth of scientific information.



> There are not incomplete proteins in plant food and there is no need for protein combining, that theory was dis-proven more than 20 years ago.


Please provide proof of this claim, because it contradicts current information from dozens of sources I found, and facts like this don't change with further research - the amino acids are either present in food or they're not. Here's one example from Tufts University's center for nutrition research written in 2018 - https://www.nutritionletter.tufts.edu/special-reports/the-power-of-plant-based-proteins/


> What is Protein? Proteins are found in the cells and tissues of all living things. They are chains of amino acids, molecules that are involved in a variety of biological functions. There are 20 amino acids, nine of which cannot be synthesized in the human body and must be acquired through diet. These are known as essential amino acids. Animal sources of protein (and a select few plant proteins including soy and quinoa) are considered “complete” in that they contain adequate amounts of all the essential amino acids the human body needs. Most plant foods are considered “incomplete” proteins, because they typically have low levels of, or are missing, one or more of the essential amino acids. For example, grains are low in the amino acid lysine, but have adequate methionine. Legumes (beans, lentils, chickpeas, peas, and peanuts), on the other hand, contain adequate lysine, but are low in methionine. Thus, a dietary pattern that includes both whole grains and legumes will provide a sufficient amount of all essential amino acids. Although it was once thought that complementary foods like these needed to be consumed at the same time, it is now understood that eating a variety of plant foods throughout the day can provide all the amino acids the body needs.


It seems like you confused two different ideas - whether plant foods contain complete proteins, and whether the complementary foods have to be eaten together to provide complete protein.


blissful said:


> And to the original question. Yes it is healthier to eat a meat free diet. A lot can be learned in the links in my signature.


That website is not very reliable. The author's agenda is to convince people to eat only plants, not to simply provide information and let people decide for themselves.


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## blissful (Oct 17, 2022)

GotGarlic said:


> That website is not very reliable.


In my opinion it is very reliable. It's awesome and full of good information based on medical and scientific research. In your opinion it is not reliable.


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## dragnlaw (Oct 17, 2022)

Egg history was based on both medical and scientific research.


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## dragnlaw (Oct 17, 2022)

*discuscookingnewbie *- so _what does your own research_ tell you about whether or not it is healthier to eat no meat at all.  Do you believe this?


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## thymeless (Oct 17, 2022)

Tell us more about what you mean by healthy. That's a loded word that means different things to different people.


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## Andy M. (Oct 17, 2022)

My entire adult life I have been listening to people tell me what I should and should not eat. Then, later the positions are reversed and that evil stuff is now OK, but don't eat that other stuff. This source is reliable/that source is a fraud, no it isn't/yes it is.

I stopped listening many years ago.

You all go do what you want. I just don't care!

I cook and eat what tastes good to me.


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## cara (Oct 17, 2022)

blissful said:


> In my opinion it is very reliable. It's awesome and full of good information based on medical and scientific research. In your opinion it is not reliable.


there are no studies in this page (or they are very well hidden) und if the first thing I read on a page is "Donate" that is a true sign for being trash.


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## GotGarlic (Oct 17, 2022)

cara said:


> there are no studies in this page (or they are very well hidden) und if the first thing I read on a page is "Donate" that is a true sign for being trash.


HI, Cara, long time no see! It's great to hear from you. I hope you are doing well.


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## Cooking Goddess (Oct 17, 2022)

Hi, @cara  Good to see you again. I hope all is well with you and your hubby.


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## bethzaring (Oct 17, 2022)

Good to hear from you cara!!!


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## LovelyLinda (Oct 17, 2022)

I can't imagine a world without roast chicken!


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## Uncle Bob (Oct 17, 2022)

discusscookingnewbie said:


> Hi, I think if I remember right, I heard on the internet some years ago or more that it was healthier to eat no meat in your food. I know beans and nuts provide protein or a lot of protein so meat isn't really necessary to have protein in your body.


If eating meat was bad for you, the species would have died off thousands, if not millions of years ago. Try a Mississippi Pot Roast....it'll put a bounce in your step!


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## Badjak (Oct 18, 2022)

I am a typical omnivore and I think that that is what we thrive best on. A bit of everything.
Having said that: it is very well possible to live and stay healthy on a vegetarian diet.
On a vegan diet, you need to be a bit more careful, but the same is possible. Just look at India.
Also really look at it and you will see a lot of bean and lentils being eaten, which to me is why it works.

I'll stick with my diet. A bit of everything


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## cookiecrafter (Oct 19, 2022)

You need the oils/fats supplied by meat.  Otherwise you need to find alternative sources rich in oils/fat.  You would be surprised how much you need.


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## bethzaring (Oct 19, 2022)

cookiecrafter said:


> You need the oils/fats supplied by meat.  Otherwise you need to find alternative sources rich in oils/fat.  You would be surprised how much you need.


You need 2 tablespoons of fat/oil a day for the body to function normally.


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## cookiecrafter (Oct 19, 2022)

bethzaring said:


> You need 2 tablespoons of fat/oil a day for the body to function normally.


Thanks.  I agree.


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## Badjak (Oct 20, 2022)

But that includes all fat. Which is probably why nuts and peanuts are (also) considered essential in a vegan diet


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## GotGarlic (Oct 20, 2022)

Badjak said:


> But that includes all fat. Which is probably why nuts and peanuts are (also) considered essential in a vegan diet


Yes. The problem is that a vegan diet has become almost a fad, especially among teenagers, who aren't known for their great decision-making. Lots of people don't realize that they can't absorb fat-soluble vitamins when they don't eat enough fat. That can easily lead to malnutrition.


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## dcSaute (Oct 20, 2022)

I have a brother-in-law, and his wife, who have been fruit-cake style vegetarians for 20+ years.

they look like death warmed over.

in addition to quite noticeable physical problems/ailments, she is mentally in stage 200 of some disorder, he cannot drive for lack of vision and acuity.

for people who desire to be all vegetarian/vegan, etc - do get some professional/knowledgeable advise on your diet.  their homespun efforts are not working out....


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## taxlady (Oct 20, 2022)

What is a "fruit-cake style vegetarian"?


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## dcSaute (Oct 21, 2022)

our son stopped  by to visit them, they went out to eat, he got a hamburger and they told him he'd have to sit at another table.
that's a fruit-cake.


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## KatyCooks (Oct 21, 2022)

Inuit would have a tough time being vegan....    not being facetious, but it does seem to me that humans are successful because we can and do adapt to what we have available to eat.     We are less successful at being balanced in what we eat, and that is often where unhealthiness happens.


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## dcSaute (Oct 21, 2022)

paleontologists attribute the rapid increase in hominoid brain size to the increased dietary protein as fire, cooking, hunting meat "got learned."


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## discusscookingnewbie (Oct 23, 2022)

@Dragonclaw
I have not done my own research. I do plan to ask my nutrionist this next time I see her. I would just rather be smart and safe about it then sorry for now if it is right or possibly right that eating no meat is healthier since I dont know for certain. It's like if someone asks weather its healthy to smoke cigarettes when people say its ok, cool or healthy for you, then you hear about or see something on the net saying smoking cigarettes is not healthy and bad for you when you don't know yourself. The solution is to just not smoke cigarettes at all, it is as simple is that and that's what I have done for now by deciding not to eat any meat, I don't want to risk putting my body in a non healthy state. If it really is healthier to eat no meat, then that's what I would choose, the healthier option. If its healthier to eat meat with food, I would choose to eat meat. I don't believe either way. I just want the truth and facts.

@thymeless 
The dictionary definition I suppose. having a well functioned healthy body


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## RVcook (Oct 24, 2022)

This is a very interesting conversation. There are definitely varying qualities of protein. What that means is some are complete- they have the 9 essential amino acids that our body is unable to create on its own. Other foods do not contain all 9 amino acids and are then considered incomplete. That doesn’t mean inferior. 

With that said, if we eat a variety of foods, it is likely that we will provide our body with all 9 essential amino acids. I think that we do that fairly intuitively, think peanut butter and jelly, macaroni and cheese, rice and beans. As to whether meat is necessary… for people that willing to learn how to eat as a vegetarian or vegan and apply that knowledge to their meals the answer is meat isn’t necessary. For me, I like meat but am cutting back a little.


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## discusscookingnewbie (Oct 30, 2022)

@GotGarlic or @anyone else who knows
I already have barley to provide carbohydrates with the beans I eat daily with each 3 meals. Would you say the barley is enough carbs so I don't need the rice?


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## dragnlaw (Oct 30, 2022)

*dcnewbie,  *you need to consult a professional nutritionist and/or dietitian. Garnering bits and pieces of information here and there is not going to be satisfactory. There are so many things to be considered for each individual.  Medical history, occupation, current health, etc. etc. The interview/questionnaire is quite intense.  They need to know it all.
Nothing wrong with asking questions but it really sounds like you want us to give you a specific diet and say this is perfect for you.


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## blissful (Oct 30, 2022)

Use cronometer.com it is a free website application where you can enter in the foods you eat and it tells you the fat/carbs/protein, vitamins, minerals you are getting and in what amounts you are getting them. This is also an app for smart phones. It's free and you'll be more well informed.


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## pepperhead212 (Oct 30, 2022)

discusscookingnewbie said:


> @GotGarlic or @anyone else who knows
> I already have barley to provide carbohydrates with the beans I eat daily with each 3 meals. Would you say the barley is enough carbs so I don't need the rice?


That part of your question "so I don't need the rice" made me think of a blog I found a lot of related information on quite a while back.  You should find some useful information, not just on the barley, but a lot of other grains, comparing them to rice - this is mostly for Indians, that are eating mostly white rice, and she is offering alternatives.  There are also many other articles about all of the legumes, as well as other related things that might interest you.








						Whole grain alternatives to white rice - Upgrade My Food
					

For a South Indian, white rice is part of most meals. But for diabetics, here are some whole grain ideas you can use as substitute or alternatives to rice




					www.upgrademyfood.com
				












						Rice vs Wheat vs Barley: Which grain has the highest fiber, protein content? - Upgrade My Food
					

Compare the fiber, protein and glycemic index values of grains like rice, wheat, barley, quinoa, millet, etc. Find out which grain is best suited for you.




					www.upgrademyfood.com


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## Badjak (Oct 31, 2022)

I agree with @dragnlaw : you really should be talking to a dietician (or GP)
While there is good information online, there's also a lot of rubbish.


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## dragnlaw (Oct 31, 2022)

blissful said:


> Use cronometer.com it is a free website application where you can enter in the foods you eat and it tells you the fat/carbs/protein, vitamins, minerals you are getting and in what amounts you are getting them. *This is also an app for smart phones. It's free and you'll be more well informed.*


But you still need to know what _YOUR_ body needs.


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## blissful (Oct 31, 2022)

@dragnlaw, how about going with some general guidelines for all humans? That would be the minimum daily requirements.


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef (Oct 31, 2022)

I am assuming you are a human being, or a reasonable facsimile thereof. Humans are designed to be omnivores. Humans have four types of teeth: incisors, canines, premolars, and molars, which each having a specific function. The incisors cut the food, the canines tear the food and the molars and premolars crush the food. 

I have seen a lot of diets come ands go, but the best one I have found is the Zone Diet, which is also known as the 40-30-30 plan, because there are no restrictions, no cutting out one food group and it is very easy to follow. Simply ensure all of your meals consist of 40% MOSTLY COMPLEX carbohydrates, 30% LEAN protein, and 30% mostly MONOunsaturated and POLYunsaturated fats, a very limited amount of SATURATED fats, and NO trans fats. Your daily calorie intake should be commensurate with your activity level, from as low as 1200 for a sedentary lifestyle to 2500 for someone with a normal activity level. When I was a hockey goaltender with a hundred pounds of equipment strapped to my body three nights a week, or spending a couple of hours breaking a sweat in the gym every day, I could bring my calorie intake as high as 3800 and still maintain my normal weight. Going below 1200 calories a day is unhealthy and not recommended. BTW, I am a nutritionist. I know these things.


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## dragnlaw (Nov 1, 2022)

Absolutely correct, *blissful*,  I was (perhaps wrongly) assuming that he/she was reading labels that usually give the daily amounts recommended for an average human.
eg.  this container's serving size contains
- Fat 7g  - - -------     9%
     -Sat Fat 3.5g.=---  18%
     -Trans Fat 0g ----
 -Cholest.  115mg......  38%
Sodium 140mg.....         6%
etc..  blah blah blah

I'm seeing these labels on almost all foods.  Those are your average adult. Take it from there.  Each person will be slightly different somewhere. Going to a nutritionist/dietician can help the individual figure out what exactly is needed for that persons lifestyle, weight, age, etc....


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## dcSaute (Nov 1, 2022)

"....for an average human...."

and that is right there a problem.

teens to geezers all eat the stuff.  the % data is essentially meaningless.
people with a sodium issue must pay attention to the mg
people with heart conditions must pay attention to the saturated fat grams.
(dietary) cholesterol in not related to serum cholesterol - so that's a red herring
people opting for a zero carb diet look at carb content.
people convinced that sugar is the devil's work should pay attention to . . .

and the normal non-obese active human just eats some of every/anything.....
thence transitioning to less active geezer - calories, fats, salts, et. al. assume more importance depending on the geezer's specific medical conditions . . . .


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## dragnlaw (Nov 1, 2022)

Dis-agree with your "and that is right there a problem."  

the rest of what you have said is IMO correct. But those charts are your_ 'base line'  _from which you figure out what _you_, in particular, need.  Without that, how would you know where to start?


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## dcSaute (Nov 1, 2022)

go to the grocery store.
observe the super-obese picking&choosing over the high to highest fat frozen instant meals . . 

that there is the problem.  
people do not relate to the published data / advice / suggestions.... to their situations.

mothers, wider than the shopping cart, with pudgy+++ kids in tow, filling the cart with nothing-but-sugar cereals, snacks, super fat nuke&eat snacks, etc etc etc.

the choice is:  
they cannot read 
or
they can read and don't care.

either way, the end results are disastrous.


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## HeyItsSara (Nov 2, 2022)

The word Healthy can mean everything or nothing.


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