# How to start my culinary career..



## dc2123 (Jul 8, 2013)

Hey guys so I could really use some personal advice / first hand stories to help me hit the ground running. I have never worked in a kitchen besides a deli for 2 weeks. I am currently 23, I went to school for criminal justice, and currently I have been a graduate for close to a year now. I have bounced from random job to random job in that time. The one thing that has remained constant and if anything grown a stronger passion within me is food and cooking. 

I've been telling myself for weeks now that I will go in and talk to some chefs. For some reason I have been hesitant to go into kitchens and apply. For whatever subconscious reason I just haven't done it yet. Does anyone have a suggestion on how I should approach this? Plus I don't know how the application process works, do I cook to show them if I can start as a line cook if I have no experience. Or just start as a dishwasher. 

I'd also like to ask you guys for suggestions on books to get that I could read to substitute for going to culinary school. I just ordered "The Professional Chef CIA" because of some members on this forum.

So to sum up everything I'm a little terrified of this new beginning, but I think I have some real talent that just needs the right chef to hone my skills and give me the knowledge needed to develop as a cook.


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## GotGarlic (Jul 8, 2013)

Hi, dc. I went to culinary school for a couple months last year (I had to withdraw for medical reasons). The book we used is called "Culinary Fundamentals" by the American Culinary Federation.

I'm guessing you're hesitating about talking to chefs because you're afraid of rejection  That's very common, especially when you're interested in starting something in which you have no experience. So try this: Instead of applying for a job, make an appointment with a chef for an informational interview. When you call, say you're interested in becoming a line cook and want to ask them some questions about how to get started. 

Also, think about the type of restaurant where you want to cook. A high-end, fine dining establishment will likely be looking for people who can hit the ground running, i.e., have some experience. Another type of place might be a better place to start. Hope this helps.


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## LPBeier (Jul 8, 2013)

I always love to see someone with passion for the culinary world.  However, it is not always a "pretty" one.

If you have no training or experience in restaurants, you will probably not be considered for a cooking position.  My friend's son started as a dishwasher, then was given prep jobs (cutting green beans for 2 hours) in between dish loads.  The jobs got more complex as he went along and showed them he was interested.  After a year he stopped washing dishes and they started adding some cooking between prep jobs (which were now things like prepping sauces, salads, etc.).  This process lets the chefs know how serious and skilled you are.  If you don't get fed up with dishes and quit, they will move you up.

Now that won't be the same everywhere, but it gives you an idea.  Even if you go to culinary school, you will start at the bottom, but probably won't have to wash dishes .

I would suggest reading all you can, watch culinary shows, cook at home to get practice, but when you apply, be very humble and be prepared to not get your dream cooking job on your first try.  

When you have a little cooking experience and are going for "real" cooking jobs, they may have you cook an omelet or something like that, or may even have you work a day/night or two so they can watch you work.  You should get paid for this, whether or not you get the job.

I went to culinary school and over the years have had mixed feelings of whether it helped me or not. I have worked in restaurants, catering and even owned my own catering business.  When I hired, I always tried to get people who where eager but not necessarily experienced and train them my way. 

Hope this helps.


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## LPBeier (Jul 8, 2013)

GotGarlic said:


> I'm guessing you're hesitating about talking to chefs because you're afraid of rejection  That's very common, especially when you're interested in starting something in which you have no experience. So try this: Instead of applying for a job, make an appointment with a chef for an informational interview. When you call, say you're interested in becoming a line cook and want to ask them some questions about how to get started.
> 
> Also, think about the type of restaurant where you want to cook. A high-end, fine dining establishment will likely be looking for people who can hit the ground running, i.e., have some experience. Another type of place might be a better place to start. Hope this helps.



I forgot to address these points;however, GG did it beautifully!


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## chopper (Jul 8, 2013)

Hi dc.  I'm so happy for you that you are going to follow your passion.  I am not a chef, nor have I gone to culinary school.  I did want to share with you one experience I had, however.  I work for a school district, so I have June and July off of work each year.  One year when money was tight, I decided to work those two months.  I decided that since I like to cook that I would just see if I could get a job cooking.  I got lucky, and a local mom and pop place hired me on the spot with my just telling them that I love to cook.  I was a grill cook for those two months, and also learned how to make really good pizza for the lunch crowd.  Because it was a small place I did a little of everything.  Well, the place got really busy, and it was no longer just the regulars coming in, and they had to hire another cook to help.  The boss was so happy, and was coming in to see how I was preparing the food so that she could make sure to get others trained before I went back to my real job.  I think that at that time if I was wanting to move up to other places that I could have done it.  My foot was well established in the door by that time.  What I am saying is that I would suggest that you find a job that you can prove to others what you can do, whatever that job may be, and you will go places.  Good luck!


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jul 8, 2013)

A Great Chef knows everything in the kitchen, including how to wash the dishes, clean the grills, etc.  He/She knows all the jobs and has the patience to teach others.  I guess what I am saying is, don't be afraid to start at the bottom and work your way up.  Or if you get a job doing prep work, be willing to pitch in washing dishes and busing tables.


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## LPBeier (Jul 8, 2013)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> A Great Chef knows everything in the kitchen, including how to wash the dishes, clean the grills, etc.  He/She knows all the jobs and has the patience to teach others.  I guess what I am saying is, don't be afraid to start at the bottom and work your way up.  Or if you get a job doing prep work, be willing to pitch in washing dishes and busing tables.


What I was trying to say but in too many more words!  Thanks, PF


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## dc2123 (Jul 9, 2013)

GotGarlic said:


> I'm guessing you're hesitating about talking to chefs because you're afraid of rejection  That's very common, especially when you're interested in starting something in which you have no experience. So try this: Instead of applying for a job, make an appointment with a chef for an informational interview. When you call, say you're interested in becoming a line cook and want to ask them some questions about how to get started.
> 
> Also, think about the type of restaurant where you want to cook. A high-end, fine dining establishment will likely be looking for people who can hit the ground running, i.e., have some experience. Another type of place might be a better place to start. Hope this helps.



That is a great point, that sounds a lot better than the few emails I've sent out where I've told whoever is reading my emails that I have no formal experience just experience from other cooks I know and books I've read and tv shows. 

Do you think many chefs will take an appointment with me?


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## GotGarlic (Jul 9, 2013)

I really couldn't say. I'll say this, though: You'll never find out if you don't try  Go on, call someone. What's the worst that can happen? They'll say no. Then call someone else. btw, calling is much more personal than emailing, and people usually know it takes more gumption, so they appreciate that.

My first job was cold-calling prospects for my mom who was starting a new business. I was 14. It wasn't easy, but I learned with each call better ways of talking to people. You can only get better with practice, just like with cooking, or anything else. Good luck and let us know how it goes


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## Mad Cook (Jul 13, 2013)

dc2123 said:


> That is a great point, that sounds a lot better than the few emails I've sent out where I've told whoever is reading my emails that I have no formal experience just experience from other cooks I know and books I've read and tv shows.
> 
> Do you think many chefs will take an appointment with me?


Any chef worth his/her salt should be prepared to talk to you and advise you but don't bank on it. However, the chef isn't always the hirer and firer and you'd be better off speaking to the restaurant manager. 

I tend to agree with those who've advised you to take some professional training before approaching a restaurant.

If you do decide to speak direct to the "horse's mouth", so to speak, don't show up in the middle of lunchtime or dinner service!


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## Dawgluver (Jul 13, 2013)

If you want an account from someone who started from the bottom, check out Marco White's bio, The Devil in the Kitchen.  He recounts his story of starting in the kitchen to becoming a 3 star Michelin chef.


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## Mad Cook (Jul 14, 2013)

Dawgluver said:


> If you want an account from someone who started from the bottom, check out Marco White's bio, The Devil in the Kitchen. He recounts his story of starting in the kitchen to becoming a 3 star Michelin chef.


MPW irritates me almost more than any other chef/cook on television (Gordon Ramsay runs a close second). I want to slap him!

Years ago when he was first in the limelight he refused to allow salt and pepper on his restaurant tables and for throwing a tantrum if anyone asked for it. In fact, he famously threw one group of diners out of the restaurant for the "crime" of wanting to "spoil" his carefully prepared and tasted (his taste, of course) food with salt added at table. Shortly after this hit the press I read an article by Elizabeth David who, while carefully avoiding naming names, got quite cross about "arrogant" chefs who didn't take account of the different tastes of their customers. 

How things change. He's now regularly on television in the UK advertising Knorr jellied stockpots and (shock, horror) Knorr stock cubes.


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## Dawgluver (Jul 14, 2013)

Mad Cook said:


> MPW irritates me almost more than any other chef/cook on television (Gordon Ramsay runs a close second). I want to slap him!
> 
> Years ago when he was first in the limelight he refused to allow salt and pepper on his restaurant tables and for throwing a tantrum if anyone asked for it. In fact, he famously threw one group of diners out of the restaurant for the "crime" of wanting to "spoil" his carefully prepared and tasted (his taste, of course) food with salt added at table. Shortly after this hit the press I read an article by Elizabeth David who, while carefully avoiding naming names, got quite cross about "arrogant" chefs who didn't take account of the different tastes of their customers.
> 
> How things change. He's now regularly on television in the UK advertising Knorr jellied stockpots and (shock, horror) Knorr stock cubes.



  Apparently Marco trained Gordon, who was/is quite a scrapper.


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## Mad Cook (Jul 14, 2013)

Dawgluver said:


> Apparently Marco trained Gordon, who was/is quite a scrapper.


Hmm. Interesting. I wasn't aware of that but it explains a lot.


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## KatyCooks (Jul 14, 2013)

I am going to get slaughtered now I expect, but I actually have a lot of time for Gordon Ramsay.   He came from a very poor background and literally worked his way up.   He's tough for sure, but he definitely knows his stuff.  (He learned a lot while working for the Roux family - and they still talk highly of him).  And he does support his staff.  Many of his previous employees have gone on to run their own restaurants and have made names for themselves. 

His TV persona is mostly just an act.  (I have never met him, but he came to an office where I was working and met several of my colleagues and they all said he was completely charming and very polite.)   That said, I wouldn't want to work for him!


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## Dawgluver (Jul 14, 2013)

KatyCooks said:


> I am going to get slaughtered now I expect, but I actually have a lot of time for Gordon Ramsay.   He came from a very poor background and literally worked his way up.   He's tough for sure, but he definitely knows his stuff.  (He learned a lot while working for the Roux family - and they still talk highly of him).  And he does support his staff.  Many of his previous employees have gone on to run their own restaurants and have made names for themselves.
> 
> His TV persona is mostly just an act.  (I have never met him, but he came to an office where I was working and met several of my colleagues and they all said he was completely charming and very polite.)   That said, I wouldn't want to work for him!



I really enjoy Gordon, even when he's doing his "thing" on Hell's Kitchen.  And Marco's book gives a good perspective, both started out dirt-poor.


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## KatyCooks (Jul 14, 2013)

Dawgluver said:


> I really enjoy Gordon, even when he's doing his "thing" on Hell's Kitchen. And Marco's book gives a good perspective, both started out dirt-poor.


 

Even on HK, in amongst all the swearing and shouting - every so often you will see Gordon tell someone they have done a good job.   

I think anyone who does well despite a very tough start in life, is worthy of recognition (if not respect).  

(Oh and thanks for not slaughtering me!)


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## Rob Babcock (Jul 17, 2013)

dc2123 said:


> Hey guys so I could really use some personal advice / first hand stories to help me hit the ground running. I have never worked in a kitchen besides a deli for 2 weeks. I am currently 23, I went to school for criminal justice, and currently I have been a graduate for close to a year now. I have bounced from random job to random job in that time. The one thing that has remained constant and if anything grown a stronger passion within me is food and cooking.
> 
> I've been telling myself for weeks now that I will go in and talk to some chefs. For some reason I have been hesitant to go into kitchens and apply. For whatever subconscious reason I just haven't done it yet. Does anyone have a suggestion on how I should approach this? Plus I don't know how the application process works, do I cook to show them if I can start as a line cook if I have no experience. Or just start as a dishwasher.
> 
> ...



Well, as someone who's spent most of his life working as a chef this is a topic I'm not sure how to tackle.  Guess I'll just start from the start- it's not hard to get a job in a restaurant.  In fact, it's one of the easiest jobs to get!  A pretty good percentage of cooks work in the kitchen because they have too many facial tatoos or to long a criminal record to do anything else!  Now, getting into a really good kitchen is harder.  You will need some experience for that.

You can start out as dishwasher.  But be advised, you're looking at minimum wage.  How does that sound to you as a college grad?  Not easy to pay off student loans on that pay.  You can almost certainly work your way up the ladder.  To be honest, many executive chef's began their careers in the dish pit.

After 25 years of working in the kitchen though I'm not sure I could in good conscience recommend cooking.  The kitchen is hot and the hours are long.  Do you like to watch football?  Forget that!  You'll be working Sundays and Thursday nights.  Welcome to working Sunday brunch!  Do you like the idea of working every big holiday?  I've worked almost every Mother's Day and Easter for the last two decades.  In fact, Mother's Day is the single most dreaded day among cooks.  Wanna take your girl out for a nice Valentine's Day dinner? HA!  You'll be stuck working the line til midnite.

The hours are brutal, you'll be working all the time that your friends are having a good time (think nights and weekends) and you're on your feet all day.  If it's 90F in the kitchen then consider yourself lucky- that's on the cool side of how hot it gets.

For the most part you won't be hand crafting culinary masterpieces.  You'll be cranking out dozens/hundreds of the same thing shift after shift, week after week.  If I had a dime for every Cajun Chicken Linguine or Blackened Salmon Salad I've cooked over the last 25 years I'd buy my own island to retire to.  You're always in a hurry and everything you need to sell a ticket needs to be up "yesterday."  It can be pretty stressful.

Well, if this still sounds good to you, then either you're insane or you're ready to get a kitchen job.  Heck, maybe both!  Despite all the stuff I've said, cooking is the only job I've ever really loved.  Another chef I know describes himself as a "Walrus"- on land they're huge, awkward and ungainly, they just don't fit in.  But put them in the water and they can soar and dive!  I'm at home when the rail is full and tickets are hanging down to the floor.  There's a certain feeling of satisfaction knowing you're doing something not everyone is capable of doing.  And it feels good to know that your cooking is making someone happy!  The diner may be celebrating a birthday, or there on a first date.  You just might have a hand in making someone's day really special.

Just be realistic.  TV shows have really distorted people's perception of reality.  Being a cook is very hard work.  Like other fields it can be more who you know that what you know.  It's not always fair.  Still, it's roughly a meritocracy.  If you work hard and stand out, you will get ahead.

The best way to get in to ask around and network.  A good word in the right ear can go a long way.  If any of your friends cook, ask them about openings.  As a chef, the best hires are often the friends of their best cooks.  If you get on at a very nice place, expect to start at the bottom...maybe below the bottom!  Middle of the road places will offer you a few more opportunities to get into the thick of things right away.  Avoid the real dives.  The only thing you can learn there is how to develop speed.  That can be useful but it doesn't matter how fast you can do something wrong.


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## Dawgluver (Jul 17, 2013)

Rob Babcock said:


> Well, as someone who's spent most of his life working as a chef this is a topic I'm not sure how to tackle.  Guess I'll just start from the start- it's not hard to get a job in a restaurant.  In fact, it's one of the easiest jobs to get!  A pretty good percentage of cooks work in the kitchen because they have too many facial tatoos or to long a criminal record to do anything else!  Now, getting into a really good kitchen is harder.  You will need some experience for that.
> 
> You can start out as dishwasher.  But be advised, you're looking at minimum wage.  How does that sound to you as a college grad?  Not easy to pay off student loans on that pay.  You can almost certainly work your way up the ladder.  To be honest, many executive chef's began their careers in the dish pit.
> 
> ...



Rob, what a wonderful, truthful account, and great advice!  I really enjoyed reading it!


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## Rob Babcock (Jul 18, 2013)

It can be very satisfying but also frustrating at times.  There's a lot of monotony and drudgery, at least with some jobs.  But I really love the actual hands-on work of cooking food.


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## dc2123 (Jul 18, 2013)

So I finally got my foot wet and spoke with a chef  today. We spoke for an hour and he gave me a lot of good advice along with some things you guys have already shared.


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## KatyCooks (Jul 18, 2013)

dc2123 said:


> So I finally got my foot wet and spoke with a chef today. We spoke for an hour and he gave me a lot of good advice along with some things you guys have already shared.


 

So how are you feeling about entering the cooking world now dc?  Are you still keen?   What is your next step?


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## dc2123 (Jul 18, 2013)

KatyCooks said:


> So how are you feeling about entering the cooking world now dc?  Are you still keen?   What is your next step?



I still feel the same way, little uneasy, nervous but now a little less hesitant to introduce myself. My next step is to hit restaurants until someone will take me on as a prep cook.


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## KatyCooks (Jul 18, 2013)

dc2123 said:


> I still feel the same way, little uneasy, nervous but now a little less hesitant to introduce myself. My next step is to hit restaurants until someone will take me on as a prep cook.


 
Well, you have broken the ice by having that chat with the chef.  Good luck on your quest!   Are there lots of restaurants where you live?


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## dc2123 (Jul 18, 2013)

KatyCooks said:


> Well, you have broken the ice by having that chat with the chef.  Good luck on your quest!   Are there lots of restaurants where you live?



I'd say a decent amount. I live right outside of Philadelphia. But this chef told me the area and Philly in general is a crap place for restaurants.


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## dc2123 (Jul 19, 2013)

So I got a shot this Sunday at "fork" in Philadelphia with chef Eli kulp. I applied on Craig's list for an ad "line/prep cook needed, willing to train highly motivated people. " bla bla bla

I guess I sold myself seeing as how I have no formal experience. So I'm going in 11am-5 For them to get to know me and test me in the kitchen. 

So any tips or advice to prepare myself would be greatly appreciated


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## KatyCooks (Jul 19, 2013)

dc2123 said:


> So I got a shot this Sunday at "fork" in Philadelphia with chef Eli kulp. I applied on Craig's list for an ad "line/prep cook needed, willing to train highly motivated people. " bla bla bla
> 
> I guess I sold myself seeing as how I have no formal experience. So I'm going in 11am-5 For them to get to know me and test me in the kitchen.
> 
> So any tips or advice to prepare myself would be greatly appreciated


 
Sounds to me like they are going to test to see how far you will sink. (Pun intended).   How far can you be pushed?  How well do you cope with being "pushed"?


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## dc2123 (Jul 19, 2013)

KatyCooks said:


> Sounds to me like they are going to test to see how far you will sink. (Pun intended).   How far can you be pushed?  How well do you cope with being "pushed"?



I mean I'm gonna do everything in my power to get the job and do my best it's all I can do. I need to see if this is meant to be my future or if I should choose another career path.


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## Dawgluver (Jul 19, 2013)

dc2123 said:


> I mean I'm gonna do everything in my power to get the job and do my best it's all I can do. I need to see if this is meant to be my future or if I should choose another career path.



Congrats!  It's a start.  Pay close attention, listen, watch techniques, do what you're told.  Be polite, offer to take on extra shift work.  Learn the recipes you're prepping.  Be enthusiastic.  Know your ingredients, make sure you have what you need.  It will take awhile to get comfortable and know what you're supposed to do, that's natural.  

Good luck!  I've heard of Forks, sounds like a good place!


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jul 19, 2013)

Pay attention to what you are told MUST be done for cleanliness, these are rules that are from the Health Department, if broken they can close a restaurant down.  Listen and have fun.  Good Luck!


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## Rob Babcock (Jul 19, 2013)

Work hard!  Follow instructions to the letter.  Be on time (that means early).  Never say "that's not my job."  Learn to say the one phrase that's appropriate 90% of the time in the kitchen- "Yes, Chef!"


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jul 19, 2013)

Do not be afraid to say, "I don't know, please show me."  Remember they do not know what you do not know.


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## KatyCooks (Jul 19, 2013)

Do ALL of the above.  

And keep focussed.   What do you want to achieve?  

(Actually, what DO you want to achieve?  What is your ultimate goal?)


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## dc2123 (Jul 19, 2013)

KatyCooks said:


> Do ALL of the above.
> 
> And keep focussed.   What do you want to achieve?
> 
> (Actually, what DO you want to achieve?  What is your ultimate goal?)



I want to most importantly 1. Decide if I should work in a kitchen.
2. Hone my skills and learn a lot in the next 6-10 months before I move to LA


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## KatyCooks (Jul 19, 2013)

dc2123 said:


> I want to most importantly 1. Decide if I should work in a kitchen.
> 2. Hone my skills and learn a lot in the next 6-10 months before I move to LA


 
Harsh dc.  Very harsh.


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## dc2123 (Jul 19, 2013)

KatyCooks said:


> Harsh dc.  Very harsh.



Is this meant to be humorous. I'm not quite sure


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## Dawgluver (Jul 19, 2013)

dc2123 said:


> Is this meant to be humorous. I'm not quite sure



I think so.  

Just know we are thrilled for you!  Hang in there, if it's meant to be, it will happen!


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## KatyCooks (Jul 19, 2013)

Dawgluver said:


> I think so.
> 
> Just know we are thrilled for you! Hang in there, if it's meant to be, it will happen!


 

Indeed!  

And on that note, it is time for me to say goodnight! 

Katy x


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## Dawgluver (Jul 20, 2013)

KatyCooks said:


> Indeed!
> 
> And on that note, it is time for me to say goodnight!
> 
> Katy x



G'night!


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