# Has anybody found a good substitute for partially hydrogenated oil in...



## EverythingAfterThe90sSuck (Nov 3, 2017)

buttercream frosting?

So a local supermarket that used to make delicious sheet cakes recently stopped using it to comply with the stupid FDA laws (like anyone was getting heart attacks from eating a few slices of birthday cake per year), and the result is lame frosting lacking in the richness/thickness that it used to have. Is there anything that can replicate what partially hydrogenated oils did for it, or am I out of luck?

Cake was one of the only things that I liked about this planet. A world without cake is probably not a world worth living in.


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## Steve Kroll (Nov 3, 2017)

I have no idea how to even respond to this post (or your username) so I'll just say "welcome" and leave it at that.


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## caseydog (Nov 3, 2017)

_Is there anything that can replicate what partially hydrogenated oils did for it, or am I out of luck?_

That's a question I never thought I would be asked. 

CD


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## giggler (Nov 3, 2017)

I'd use Butter. It's partialy hydrodized. and I almost agrree... but everything after the 80's  sucks.


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## EverythingAfterThe90sSuck (Nov 3, 2017)

I'm pretty sure there's already butter in said buttercream frosting.


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## Andy M. (Nov 3, 2017)

Buttercream frosting doesn't usually have any oil in it.  If there is oil in the recipe, it's there as a cheap substitute for butter.


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## Steve Kroll (Nov 3, 2017)

Andy M. said:


> Buttercream frosting doesn't usually have any oil in it.  If there is oil in the recipe, it's there as a cheap substitute for butter.



Exactly right, Andy. Buttercream frosting usually has only a handful of ingredients: butter, confectioners sugar, vanilla (or other flavoring), and milk. Hydrogenated oils aren't part of the equation, at least not when I've run across it.

Now if we're talking about frosting made with the original formula of Crisco, that's something different. I've never cared for those kinds of frostings myself - it's just kind of a textural thing with me.


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## EverythingAfterThe90sSuck (Nov 3, 2017)

The thing is, there was always a major difference between this supermarket's buttercream frosting and that of the other popular supermarket in the area. The other one's was this light, cheap, tasteless stuff...had all the flavor of like Pillsbury Toaster Strudel icing (the true meaning of "icing"), but not as sweet. This stuff was much richer/creamier and sweeter...before non-PHO compliance took over at some point this year. 

I would have thought the other supermarket was doing the cheap recipe. I just assumed the good stuff contained both butter and PHO.


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## Andy M. (Nov 3, 2017)

You should make the real thing and compare.


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef (Nov 3, 2017)

EverythingAfterThe90sSuck said:


> buttercream frosting?
> 
> So a local supermarket that used to make delicious sheet cakes recently stopped using it to comply with the stupid FDA laws (like anyone was getting heart attacks from eating a few slices of birthday cake per year), and the result is lame frosting lacking in the richness/thickness that it used to have. Is there anything that can replicate what partially hydrogenated oils did for it, or am I out of luck?
> 
> Cake was one of the only things that I liked about this planet. A world without cake is probably not a world worth living in.



Even if someone could come up with a recipe for you, how would you get it on a store-bought cake? Were you planning on buying the cake without frosting or scraping off the bakery icing and adding your own?

If you want the true flavor of birthday cake icing, try adding Amoretti Premium Birthday Cake Syrup to your frosting recipe. I can personally guarantee your frosting will taste EXACTLY like a birthday cake!

If you are attempting to get your local bakery to change their recipe, Amoretti also has birthday cake extract or Artisan flavoring which can be purchased in larger quantities. If they are a legitimate business and contact Amoretti, they may be able to score some free samples.


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## msmofet (Nov 3, 2017)

*Vanilla Buttercream Frosting*
 

Prep time: 10 minutes 

Total time: 10 minutes 

Servings: 12 
 
*Ingredients*
 
3 cups powdered sugar 
1/3 cup butter or margarine, softened
1 1/2 teaspoons vanilla 
1 to 2 tablespoons milk 
 
*Steps*
 

1 In medium bowl, mix powdered sugar and butter with spoon or electric mixer on low speed. Stir in vanilla and 1 tablespoon of the milk. 

2 Gradually beat in just enough remaining milk to make frosting smooth and spreadable. If frosting is too thick, beat in more milk, a few drops at a time. If frosting becomes too thin, beat in a small amount of powdered sugar. Frosts 13x9-inch cake generously, or fills and frosts an 8- or 9-inch two-layer cake. 
 
Inserted from <https://www.bettycrocker.com/recipes/vanilla-buttercream-frosting/39107a19-be94-4571-9031-f1fc5bd1d606>


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## EverythingAfterThe90sSuck (Nov 3, 2017)

I never really thought about this before, but does chocolate buttercream frosting tend to be thicker than vanilla?


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## msmofet (Nov 3, 2017)

Add more or less milk/powdered sugar. I don’t eat the stuff so can’t give exact answer. We get our cakes with whipped cream frosting. We don’t like the greasy texture/mouth feel of buttercream frosting. The buttercream roses look pretty but get chucked.


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## RPCookin (Nov 3, 2017)

EverythingAfterThe90sSuck said:


> I never really thought about this before, but does chocolate buttercream frosting tend to be thicker than vanilla?



I would imagine that you would just adjust the amount of milk used to get the consistency that you want.


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## Kaneohegirlinaz (Nov 3, 2017)

Oh My!

If I may chime in ...

There are several types of Buttercream frostings as I understand it... being just a home baker and not a professional ... I've made Italian Buttercream, Swiss and straight up "American Buttercream".
Here's an interesting article from Serious Eats I found ...

The World of Buttercreams: 6 Varieties to Try at Home | Serious Eats

Now, I'm not sure if this counts as a Buttercream Frosting, but I just made a double batch of Hershey's Perfect Chocolate Frosting ... 

https://www.hersheys.com/kitchens/en_us/recipes/perfectly-chocolate-chocolate-frosting.html

I really like this recipe for it's ease ... melted butter!  I don't need to think ahead to soften all that butter!  And the consistency is wonderful for either spreading or piping!

And, EverythingAfterThe90sSuck, I think that life, at least for me here in America, has gotten better and better as the years have gone by...it's all what you make it, right?


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## jennyema (Nov 6, 2017)

EverythingAfterThe90sSuck said:


> buttercream frosting?
> 
> So a local supermarket that used to make delicious sheet cakes recently stopped using it to comply with the stupid FDA laws (like anyone was getting heart attacks from eating a few slices of birthday cake per year), and the result is lame frosting lacking in the richness/thickness that it used to have. Is there anything that can replicate what partially hydrogenated oils did for it, or am I out of luck?
> 
> Cake was one of the only things that I liked about this planet. A world without cake is probably not a world worth living in.





Buttercream frosting doesn’t have oil in it


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## Janet H (Nov 6, 2017)

I'm sure you could make a butter cream with vegetable shortening and that many discount bakeries do this to save $$$

Here's a recipe over at King arthur... https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/quick-buttercream-frosting-recipe


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## Kaneohegirlinaz (Nov 7, 2017)

We haven't heard back from EverythingAfterThe90sSuck ...


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## EverythingAfterThe90sSuck (Nov 7, 2017)

I'n not buying the claim that using partially hydrogenated oils in buttercream frosting is rare. I read a few articles where owners of independent bakeries were worried about how the FDA regulations were going to ruin the taste of their products, with the main one cited being cupcakes. 

And I just found the old recipe for the supermarket frosting and sure enough, it was oil/shortening-based (partially hydrogenated soy and palm oils). 

I don't think I've ever had "real" buttercream frosting in my life, be it supermarket cakes, independent bakeries, or restaurants. I always thought it was strange how I hate the taste of butter (and margarine), yet love frosting. Now I think I know why; none of them ever contained butter. And from what I have read, people think the new shortenings without the partially hydrogenated oils are terrible. 

Looks like I'm out of luck.


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## Silversage (Nov 7, 2017)

EverythingAfterThe90sSuck said:


> I'n not buying the claim.............



This is like saying that a McDonald's 'shake' is a real milkshake and one make from real milk and ice cream is not.   *It's not a claim.*  It's what's real.  By definition,  buttercream is made with butter.  Period.  Grocery store frosting may be called buttercream in their promos, but it is not real buttercream.  It's bakery frosting, made with shortening, not butter.  

There are variations on real buttercream, with different sugars, egg yolks, egg whites, whole eggs.  But they ALL are based on butter.  If you are looking for a cheap commercial substitution, you are in the wrong place.  Try one of the national food product distributors like Sysco or Gordon.  Most of us make real buttercream and are not looking for a substitute for partialy hydrogenated shortening.  

You may want to try the real thing before you bemoan the loss of artificial products.


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## Kaneohegirlinaz (Nov 7, 2017)

I made "faux buttercream" frosting with shortening once to stand up to a hot summer picnic ...   the mouth-feel was horrid! 
Even my husband, who claims to HATE butter in anything ...
SSSSHHHH!

... loves my 'icing' on homemade cakes


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## EverythingAfterThe90sSuck (Nov 8, 2017)

Silversage said:


> This is like saying that a McDonald's 'shake' is a real milkshake and one make from real milk and ice cream is not.   *It's not a claim.*  It's what's real.  By definition,  buttercream is made with butter.  Period.  Grocery store frosting may be called buttercream in their promos, but it is not real buttercream.  It's bakery frosting, made with shortening, not butter.
> 
> There are variations on real buttercream, with different sugars, egg yolks, egg whites, whole eggs.  But they ALL are based on butter.  If you are looking for a cheap commercial substitution, you are in the wrong place.  Try one of the national food product distributors like Sysco or Gordon.  Most of us make real buttercream and are not looking for a substitute for partialy hydrogenated shortening.
> 
> You may want to try the real thing before you bemoan the loss of artificial products.



That's not what I'm not buying. What I'm not buying is that it's somehow _rare_, or even exclusive to supermarkets. Independent bakery owners have publicly complained about the ban, talking about how their customers expect a certain taste from their products, etc. I have eaten plenty of cakes with "buttercream" frosting from independent bakeries and restaurants, and I am starting to doubt any of them are what you would consider "real" buttercream frosting...based on the fact that I still enjoyed them while I hate the taste of butter.


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## CraigC (Nov 8, 2017)

EverythingAfterThe90sSuck said:


> That's not what I'm not buying. What I'm not buying is that it's somehow _rare_, or even exclusive to supermarkets. Independent bakery owners have publicly complained about the ban, talking about how their customers expect a certain taste from their products, etc. I have eaten plenty of cakes with "buttercream" frosting from independent bakeries and restaurants, and I am starting to doubt any of them are what you would consider "real" buttercream frosting...based on the fact that I still enjoyed them while *I hate the taste of butter.*



What kind of butter do you hate and how many have you tried? We never buy salted butter and certain types/brands of unsalted.


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## CharlieD (Nov 8, 2017)

EverythingAfterThe90sSuck said:


> And I just found the old recipe for the supermarket frosting and sure enough, it was oil/shortening-based (partially hydrogenated soy and palm oils).
> 
> ....



Would you share that recipe please.

Oh, and everything after 70"s suck.


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## RPCookin (Nov 8, 2017)

CharlieD said:


> Would you share that recipe please.
> 
> *Oh, and everything after 70's suck.*



Now you're getting to my generation.  When disco ruined the music, that's my divider.  The good old days were pre-disco.


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## CraigC (Nov 8, 2017)

RPCookin said:


> Now you're getting to my generation.  When disco ruined the music, that's my divider.  The good old days were pre-disco.



I never listened to disco at all. There were some great country rock bands as well as rock bands. Since the late '60's through the '70's, there have never been so many great bands at one period in time. I almost forgot about the rap music back then, Big Bad John, Ringo, Convoy and Wolf Creek Pass to mention a few.


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## msmofet (Nov 8, 2017)

CraigC said:


> I never listened to disco at all. There were some great country rock bands as well as rock bands. Since the late '60's through the '70's, there have never been so many great bands at one period in time. I almost forgot about the rap music back then, Big Bad John, Ringo, Convoy and Wolf Creek Pass to mention a few.


 +1

https://youtu.be/oh66kDox4R0


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## GotGarlic (Nov 8, 2017)

I'm pretty sure DH still has his DREAD card in his wallet [emoji38]


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## bakechef (Nov 8, 2017)

Crisco still has some partially hydrogenated oil in it, just not as much as before so that they can get below 1/2 gram per serving of transfat, and call it "zero trans fat".  Crisco now has a higher ratio of FULLY hydrogenated fat which isn't as harmful.  The trouble with this is if you use a high proportion of crisco in a frosting, it'll leave a greasy coating in your mouth, where the old stuff full of trans fat wouldn't, it would just give a very light mouthfeel.

You can use a combination of butter and crisco and get a similar result, but you'll definitely not want to go over 50% crisco, I'd use even less.

My favorite way of making American style buttercream is to use all butter, usually 1 cup of butter to 4 cups powdered sugar with a bit of vanilla and thinned with milk if needed.  After consistency is achieved, I leave it on my Kitchenaid with the paddle, and leave it to beat for 7-10 minutes.  The extra beating time gives the sugar the chance to completely dissolve creating a super creamy, light mouthfeel.


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## bakechef (Nov 8, 2017)

Silversage said:


> This is like saying that a McDonald's 'shake' is a real milkshake and one make from real milk and ice cream is not.   *It's not a claim.*  It's what's real.  By definition,  buttercream is made with butter.  Period.  Grocery store frosting may be called buttercream in their promos, but it is not real buttercream.  It's bakery frosting, made with shortening, not butter.
> 
> There are variations on real buttercream, with different sugars, egg yolks, egg whites, whole eggs.  But they ALL are based on butter.  If you are looking for a cheap commercial substitution, you are in the wrong place.  Try one of the national food product distributors like Sysco or Gordon.  Most of us make real buttercream and are not looking for a substitute for partialy hydrogenated shortening.
> 
> You may want to try the real thing before you bemoan the loss of artificial products.



I work with grocery store buttercream every day, it comes in a big bucket and it does indeed have butter in it.  Most of them don't, I've worked with a lot of them and even different frostings from the same company and this is the first with real butter.  Most don't label their buckets as buttercream, it's usually the grocery stores themselves that make the claim.  I've even worked with one that called itself But-R-Creme, it reeked of artificial butter flavoring. 

I will say that the old shortenings with hydrogenated oils had their place, they were very stable and created frostings that would hold up in warmer climates and give a very fluffy, light mouthfeel.  Wedding cake decorators relied on them for years because they just make the frostings so much easier to work with.


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## bakechef (Nov 8, 2017)

EverythingAfterThe90sSuck said:


> That's not what I'm not buying. What I'm not buying is that it's somehow _rare_, or even exclusive to supermarkets. Independent bakery owners have publicly complained about the ban, talking about how their customers expect a certain taste from their products, etc. I have eaten plenty of cakes with "buttercream" frosting from independent bakeries and restaurants, and I am starting to doubt any of them are what you would consider "real" buttercream frosting...based on the fact that I still enjoyed them while I hate the taste of butter.



Yes, bakeries, even independents have used high ratio hydrogenated shortening for years in their frostings, fillings and cakes.  Frostings and fillings came out very fluffy and stable with this product, that's mainly why it was used, it has properties that real butter cannot match.  Even old school independant bakeries used it heavily.


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## EverythingAfterThe90sSuck (Nov 25, 2017)

Looks like the PHO ban ruined pumpkin pie, too. The crust this year was about as stiff and dry as cardboard.


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## EverythingAfterThe90sSuck (Jun 5, 2018)

Has anybody tried frosting made with interesterified oil? They just switched over to that at one of the supermarket chains over here...the frosting _looks_ completely different, though. The piping at the border, whatever that's called, looks not as tight/firm.


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## EverythingAfterThe90sSuck (Sep 14, 2018)

*Did cake piping design change because of the partially hydrogenated oil ban?*

All the supermarket cakes in my area have a different design for the piping in comparison to before the ban: Before the ban, it was done in connected, oval/teardrop-type shapes (I guess the professionals refer to them as "shells"). Since the ban, it has been done in a sort of wave pattern. 

Is this in any way related to the ban itself? I can't think of a reason it would be, but I miss the old design.


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## caseydog (Sep 14, 2018)

You're kinda' stuck in a _partially hydrogenated oil ban_ rut. You must really love that stuff -- or work for the partially hydrogenated oil lobby.  

CD


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## Cheryl J (Sep 14, 2018)

I thought this thread sounded familiar....!


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## Kaneohegirlinaz (Sep 14, 2018)

Umm, yeah …
http://www.discusscooking.com/forum...-for-partially-hydrogenated-oil-in-99022.html

We did kinda talk about this topic before


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## EverythingAfterThe90sSuck (Sep 14, 2018)

So nobody knows?


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## Kaneohegirlinaz (Sep 14, 2018)

EverythingAfterThe90sSuck said:


> *All the supermarket cakes in my area have a different design for the piping in comparison to before the ban*: Before the ban, it was done in connected, oval/teardrop-type shapes (I guess the professionals refer to them as "shells"). Since the ban, it has been done in a sort of wave pattern.
> 
> *Is this in any way related to the ban itself? I can't think of a reason it would be*, but I miss the old design.




It seems to me at least, that your question might best be answered by your local supermarkets.  
I'm not positive, but most the of DC community are not professional bakers... I may be wrong … is anyone out there in DC land a Professional Baker?  I do know that Roch owns a deli …


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## PrincessFiona60 (Sep 15, 2018)

The bakery I use makes real buttercream...using butter.


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## caseydog (Sep 16, 2018)

EverythingAfterThe90sSuck said:


> That's not what I'm not buying. What I'm not buying is that it's somehow _rare_, or even exclusive to supermarkets. Independent bakery owners have publicly complained about the ban, talking about how their customers expect a certain taste from their products, etc. I have eaten plenty of cakes with "buttercream" frosting from independent bakeries and restaurants, and I am starting to doubt any of them are what you would consider "real" buttercream frosting...based on the fact that I still enjoyed them while *I hate the taste of butter.*



Oh, that is just all kinds of wrong.   

CD


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## caseydog (Sep 16, 2018)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> The bakery I use makes real buttercream...*using butter.*



Wow, what a concept. 

CD


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