# Secret to the Perfect pizza?



## Englisc cuk (May 15, 2007)

Hi, i am an italian guy but i live in England from 2  weeks. I work in an italian Restaurant, "Pastarito&Pizzarito", and i want to know the secret to make a perfect pizza. I know that i'm italian and i could know the pizza, but i am so inexpert, and if i want to become a famous cook, i must have your pareers. Thank you very much.
p.s. sorry for my english...
p.p.s sprry for my nick
:pastapizza&mandolino: :i'm sfonning U:
 Hi!


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## StirBlue (May 15, 2007)

The secret to any great pizza is of course the pizza crust.  That is where preference begins and never ends.


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## Caine (May 15, 2007)

Al contrario, mio amica, the secrect to great pizza is a flavorful sauce! 
Many pizza joints have come and gone because, althought their crust was just the right thickness, with just the right crustiness, and just the right internal texture, the sauce was troppo mezzo mezzo, which will not appeal to the true pizza aficionado.

That is why you will never find a Dominos or Pizza Hut in a predominantly Italian neighborhood, especially in the Norteastern United States, where the Italians have lived there, sometimes in the same house, for 3 or 4 generations. The sauce they put on their pizzas is totally tastless, figuratively as well as literally.


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## Englisc cuk (May 15, 2007)

Caine said:
			
		

> Al contrario, mio amica, the secrect to great pizza is a flavorful sauce!
> Many pizza joints have come and gone because, althought their crust was just the right thickness, with just the right crustiness, and just the right internal texture, the sauce was troppo mezzo mezzo, which will not appeal to the true pizza aficionado.
> 
> That is why you will never find a Dominos or Pizza Hut in a predominantly Italian neighborhood, especially in the Norteastern United States, where the Italians have lived there, sometimes in the same house, for 3 or 4 generations. The sauce they put on their pizzas is totally tastless, figuratively as well as literally.


Thank yuo very much...but i can put in my pizza some ingredients like pepperoni, cappers, cheeese, and so on? 
:pastapizza&mandolino: :misfonnomanonmollo: :sietescemiacredermisfonnati:
p.s FLAVORFUL SAUCE??? OMG


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## Caine (May 15, 2007)

You can top it with pepperoni, salami, capacolla, proscuito, mortadella, anchovies, chicken, turkey, ham, balogna (never tried this, just heard it in a Honda commercial!), bacon or pancetta, bell peppers (any color), hot peppers, pepperoncini, tomatoes, asparagus, celery, spinach, or bietola da coste, and although mozzerella is the traditional cheese, you can also use provolone, parmagiano, gorgonzola, Monterey Jack, Swiss, meunster, or any other cheese that you think would melt and taste good. 

Just one thing, please? *NO **%!@$#%@** PINEAPPLE!* If God wanted pineapple on pizza, he would have put Italy in the South Pacific!


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## Englisc cuk (May 15, 2007)

Caine said:
			
		

> You can top it with pepperoni, salami, capacolla, proscuito, mortadella, anchovies, chicken, turkey, ham, balogna (never tried this, just heard it in a Honda commercial!), bacon or pancetta, bell peppers (any color), hot peppers, pepperoncini, tomatoes, asparagus, and although mozzerella is traditional, you can use provolone, parmagiano, gorgonzola, Monterey Jack, Swiss, meunster, or any other cheese that you think would melt and taste good.
> 
> Just one thing, please? *NO **%!@$#%@** PINEAPPLE!* If God wanted pineapple on pizza, he would have put Italy in the South Pacific!


NO the pineapple no! In Italy we haven't got any plant of pineaplle....i hate punapple....what a skif....is too sugar..do you understand? thank you very much....:tesfonno!!:


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## Caine (May 15, 2007)

sì, capisco completamente! 

Don't get me wrong, I love pineapple in things like, say, sweet and sour sauce, chutney, upside down cake, or as a garnish for ham or pork dishes. I just do NOT want to see it on a pizza.


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## Englisc cuk (May 15, 2007)

Caine said:
			
		

> sì, capisco completamente!
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I love pineapple in things like, say, sweet and sour sauce, chutney, upside down cake, or as a garnish for ham or pork dishes. I just do NOT want to see it on a pizza.


yes, it's what i'm saying, the pineapple it's sweet, the pizza it's salad.....often i like some strange dishes with sweet/salad, but the pineapple put in a pizza is so american....
are your origins italian? you speak italian better than i speak english!
:italianopizzapasta&mandolino: :materazzirulez:
:grimhaiunbelavatar:


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## Mirandgl (May 15, 2007)

It is obvious in just a few short responses that PIZZA has a large variety of toppings and opinions.
 
I make my own dough and I also make my own sauce from home grown San Marzano tomatoes and our garden herbs.  So I guess I would say the most important part is the crust and the sauce followed by the cheese.  I can be happy with those three ingredients but I use a variety of toppings depending on my mood and what is in the fridge.  I don’t make pizza a garbage dump for leftovers but some things I create a large portion with the anticipation of using on a pizza later.  Meatballs would be a good example.


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## Caine (May 15, 2007)

Englisc cuk said:
			
		

> are your origins italian? you speak italian better than i speak english!


 
Si. Mia madre è Siciliano puro! 

Although I have not spoken Italian in many years, we lived in my grandparent's house until I was 3 years old, so I learned to speak Sicilian before I learned English.  My grandfather was a barber, so he spoke perfect English, along with several Italian dialects, but my grandmother always spoke in Italian. I didn't even know she could speak English until I had kids of my own. To them, she spoke English!


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## Guts (May 16, 2007)

cook it on a stone


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## Uncle Bob (May 16, 2007)

Savory and hot!!! I don't do cold pizza! Hot!!


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## Caine (May 16, 2007)

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> Savory and hot!!! I don't do cold pizza! Hot!!


 
Cold pizza. It's not just for breakfast any more!

Even for breakfast, I like to warm it up, but always in the toaster oven, never in a microwave. Yuck!


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## CasperImproved (May 16, 2007)

Englisc cuk said:
			
		

> NO the pineapple no! In Italy we haven't got any plant of pineaplle....i hate punapple....what a skif....is too sugar..do you understand? thank you very much....:tesfonno!!:



Englisc cuk - 

I love pizza in many forms. What I have issue with is how it was cooked. I'll be honest and say the worst pizza I have eaten was while I was vacationing in Italy. I will say I only had pizza in two different places in Itally. I "liked" the pizza in one place but it was not great, but the pizza in the second place was pretty bad (and very over cooked). I have since learned that I do not like a wood fired oven for pizza. I like a naked pizza like a Margarita pizza, but I REALLY do prefer an oven stone, and to have a thicker crust then what is normal in southern Italy.

Not trying to say the Italian cooking was bad at all (loved many dishes I tryed while vacationing for two weeks there). And my only  pizza experience  in Italy was two restaurants which limits my opinions on this topic, but did want you to think about how others in the country you are in like "their" pizza.

I will say I did get many ideas I liked while eating in Europe, and made many trips to many different countries. The pizza I liked the best to be honest (with a US background) came from Germany. I was completely surprised by how good eggs were on pizza (which is a regular topping in Germany). I was surprized because I did not see it in many other countries, but it was an excellant paring with a good tomato sauce.

As an "X" millitary guy for ten years, I will say, a good pizza should be able to stand alone. Even cold, a good pizza will still be good.

Just my personal opinion.

I hope you well here, and hope you spend future time here.

CapserImproved


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## jasonr (May 16, 2007)

Here's the pizza sauce I use. It's my own personal recipe that I developed. I enjoy it, but I live alone, so not too many others have tried it so I can't say if it's great or not. I make my own pizza every sunday night, and this is the sauce I always use. As I said, I like it, and the few others who have tried it seem to as well.

14 OZ of tomatoe, pureed in a cuisinart (this can be fresh or canned)
1 medium button mushroom, finely chopped
2-3 leaves (about 2 tbsp) fresh basil, finely chopped
2-3 cloves minced garlic
1/10 tsp cayenne pepper (this is about a pinch)
1 TBSP granulated sugar 

* I am just estimating with these amounts; I actually do it by instinct, so I can't say fore sure if the quantities are 100% right. 

1. Saute the garlic in the olive oil on high heat for about 30 seconds. Then add the mushroom and saute for about 10 seconds. Then add the tomato. Stir in the sugar and simmer until thick and pasty, about 30 minutes.

2. When the sauce is the right consistency, turn off the heat and let cool for a minute or two. Stir in the basil and ceyenne pepper, then salt and pepper to taste.

Anyway, please let me know if you like it. I use a basic Williams Sonoma pizza crust (6.25 OZ breach flour, 3/4 tsp sea salt, 140 ml water, 1 tsp AD yeast, using only about 2/3 of the dough, and discarding the rest) with a mix of 1.5 oz farmhouse cheddar, 4 oz vaccum packed mozzarella (fresh has way too much moisture, and will make your pizza a runny mess). For spices, I use about a 1/4 tsp of finely chopped fresh rosemary, about twice that amount of finely chopped fresh oregano, with salt and pepper to taste, and a tbsp of extra virgin olive oil drizzled on top.

I bake with just the dough and sauce for 4 minutes, then add the cheese and spices and oil and bake an additional 2 minutes, just until the cheese has melted.

Of course, you must use a baking stone, and semolina flour for your pizza peel. Baking pans for pizzas are blasphemous.


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## Katie H (May 16, 2007)

Actually, after reviewing everyone's comments, one point hasn't been addressed.  Regardless of the type of pizza you like, I think the key to a really delicous pizza is to make sure the ingredients are the freshest possible.  You can make your sauce any way you want and you can make your own dough, but unless the ingredients are fresh, don't think you'll be assured of a great outcome.  Just my take on the subject.


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## jasonr (May 16, 2007)

> Actually, after reviewing everyone's comments, one point hasn't been addressed. Regardless of the type of pizza you like, I think the key to a really delicous pizza is to make sure the ingredients are the freshest possible. You can make your sauce any way you want and you can make your own dough, but unless the ingredients are fresh, don't think you'll be assured of a great outcome. Just my take on the subject.


I agree with two exceptions: tomatos and mozzarella.

I love buffalo mozzarella and boccaccini, but to use either of them in a pizza is a disaster; it turns into a runny mess due to the excess moisture. (I have heard that there exists a type of fresh low-moisture mozzarella made exactly for pizzas, but no store in my area, from Whole Foods to the high end Italian grocer carries it) The best mozzarella is a vaccum packed cheese like Silani or Tre Stelle.

With tomatos, I have tried using the freshest, most beautiful heirloom tomatos in my sauce, and frankly, it didn't make any difference compared with the canned Italian tomatos (alebeit a high end brand). Tomatos are canned at their freshest, so I don't see it as being a big sin to use canned in a sauce.


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## Katie H (May 16, 2007)

Well, jason, I rarely use commercially canned tomato sauce.  I depend on my oven-roasted Roma tomato sauce that is, judged by quite a few, as about the best.  My Roma plants are beginning to flower and I can't wait to start making sauce.

As for the cheese, I've not had a problem with runny cheese.  Guess I've been lucky.  In any case, so many different kinds of pizza, so little time.


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## jasonr (May 16, 2007)

> Well, jason, I rarely use commercially canned tomato sauce. I depend on my oven-roasted Roma tomato sauce that is, judged by quite a few, as about the best. My Roma plants are beginning to flower and I can't wait to start making sauce.



Uggh. Canned sauce is revolting. I'm not talking about canned sauce, I'm talking about canned tomatos to go IN the sauce.

As for fresh cheese, I've tried boccoccini, buffalo mozzarella and every fresh cheese I can get my hands on. I always go back to vaccum packed because the fresh is just impractical. Half the time the cheese turns to liquid and just runs right off the pizza.


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## CasperImproved (May 16, 2007)

jasonr said:
			
		

> Uggh. Canned sauce is revolting. I'm not talking about canned sauce, I'm talking about canned tomatos to go IN the sauce.
> 
> As for fresh cheese, I've tried boccoccini, buffalo mozzarella and every fresh cheese I can get my hands on. I always go back to vaccum packed because the fresh is just impractical. Half the time the cheese turns to liquid and just runs right off the pizza.


Jasonr - I wouldn't have posted except I'm still on today ;-)

I will agree with Katie on the fresh ingrediet post. If available, the freshest items are usually the best (in my opinion).

As to your comment on fresh tomatoes, I personnally prefer a tomato paste as the base, but enjoy thin slices of "fresh" tomatoes as one of the toppings, and would also echo the thought that Roma for fresh tomatoes are usually the tastiest for a "standard".

Of course, just my opinions, and subject to lots of scrutiny ;-)

Casper


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## amybear (May 16, 2007)

Hand tossed dough is the "secret". If you have a good base to work with your pizza will turn out 10x better no matter what you put on it. (I'm an anchovies kinda girl!).
http://test.bakespace.com/


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## csalt (May 17, 2007)

Mirandgl said:
			
		

> It is obvious in just a few short responses that PIZZA has a large variety of toppings and opinions.
> 
> I make my own dough and I also make my own sauce from home grown San Marzano tomatoes and our garden herbs. So I guess I would say the most important part is the crust and the sauce followed by the cheese. I can be happy with those three ingredients but I use a variety of toppings depending on my mood and what is in the fridge. I don’t make pizza a garbage dump for leftovers but some things I create a large portion with the anticipation of using on a pizza later. Meatballs would be a good example.


 
Would you post the recipe for your pizza dough?


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## Englisc cuk (May 17, 2007)

Comunque, grazie a tutti. Vi ho usato. Vi ho sfonnato. So benissimo come si cucina una bella pizza...... sfonnando la pasta e spalmandoci pomodoro e mozzarella. Grazie ancora. Se non verrò bammato, ci rivedremo. FORSE.
Trad.
Enough, thank you all. I used you. I sfonned you. I know very well in which mode I can make a pizza.....sfonning the paste(of the capitane) e spalmando before the tomato. Thank already. If I will not bamm, we risee. Peraphs.


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## Mirandgl (May 17, 2007)

CSALT,
 
I would like to preface this recipe by saying that I am not fond of recipes that include specific brand items but this recipe was given to me by a friend who said it was TNT.  I tried and true to my nature I made some adjustments to the quantities while maintaining the original ingredients.  The ingredients that are important to this recipe IMO are the Malt and the Durum flour.  The KA flours work great for me but using other brand flour is a subtle variance and you may find it works for you.
 
I use King Arthur flour and malt that I have to order online:  kingarthurflour.com
 
I weigh my major ingredients while I use teaspoon and tablespoon for the lesser quantities.  I hope this is not a problem for anyone.
 
140 Grams Italian-Style Flour - KA #3338
140 Grams French-Style Flour - KA #3334
  70 Grams Durum Flour – KA #3456
1 Tablespoon Diastatic Malt Powder – KA #3413
1 teaspoon salt
2 teaspoon EVOO
2 teaspoon DA yeast
8 Ounce Tepid Water = 1 Cup = @226 Grams
 
I use dough hook on my KitchenAid stand mixer.  Add all the ingredients except the Durum flour to the mixer bowl and mix on low speed.  Add the Durum flour gradually until the dough forms a ball and leaves the sides of the bowl.  Test the dough ball with your finger.  If it is sticky add additional Durum flour in very small amounts until the dough will not stick to your finger.
 
Run with dough hook for about 5 minutes at medium speed.  Turn the dough out into a bowl that is lightly oiled with EVOO, cover and allow to rise in a warm draft free area for about an hour.  The yeast and malt develop character during the rise time.   
 
Turn the dough out onto a lightly floured surface and form a crust. *I am totally inept at hand tossing pizza dough so I have developed my own crutch.  I punch down the dough in the bowl and turn out onto a pizza pan that has been sprayed lightly with Pam, a food release product, and I form my dough to the shape of the pan.  I invert the pan over a wooden peel that has been liberally sprinkled with coarse corn meal.  I pinch the edges and add selected toppings.
 
Slide the pizza onto a pizza stone that has been preheated in the oven to 450F.  Bake the pizza for about 15 minutes depending on your degree of doneness.  (We like a well done pizza.)
 
This recipe will make a 16” crust that is about medium thick with nice rolled edges.  I also lightly brush the exposed edges of the crust with EVOO before baking to keep the edge s from getting too crispy.
 
Enjoy!


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## Bridgett (May 17, 2007)

There is no secret - keep it simple! Living with a family in Italy (not tourist filled, unauthentic Roma, Venezia & Milano, but a tiny town where no one spoke english and everyone bought their ingredients fresh every day) i learned that outside of Europe there are some serious misconceptions on what constitutes a pizza - what many people often call pizza is more like a bucket of compost dumped on a loaf of bread and drizzled with bbq sauce.

For real pizza, relax - it would be rather unitalian to measure out ingredients gram by gram - cook intuitively until the dough feels right between your hands. To all those people out there saying that the sauce is the key - some of the best authentic pizzas i had in italy were "pizza bianco" (i.e. white pizza - no tomato sauce!) Keep it simple, keep it thin, cook it very hot and very quickly, and use only a few ingredients - mozzarella and please no tasty cheese!


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## Mirandgl (May 18, 2007)

Hello Bridget

I do understand your philosophy and opinion but feel somewhat defensive about being a gram by gram guy. My grandmother cooked by a pinch of this and a dash of that but those pinches and dashes usually remained uniform each time she cooked an item. I frequently cook that way now but I sure had to practice those pinches and dashes before I had my intuition in hand. 

A recipe is like a map. Place an Italian or any citizen of planet Earth in New York City and ask them to travel to the ocean. Heading west will take much longer than heading east. Once the general direction is known variation of routes can be more intuitive. 

I think pizza has evolved to a point where a disagreement over the original source can be valid but not that variations or misconceptions share the name. The southern United States prides itself on BBQ. Some BBQ is made with a wet sauce and some use dry rub. Some sauce is tomato based and some is a mustard style; some good and some bad. It is a mater of personal preference what is the “best” but it all falls under the label of BBQ.

I hope your next slice of pizza is terrific, every gram of it.


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## Andy M. (May 18, 2007)

Pizza is one of those thing that people get passionate about. as this thread attests.

The secret to great pizza is not the crust.  It's not the sauce.  It's not the cheese or the toppings.  The truth is, there is no secret.

If you want a great pizza, you need good quality ingredients, good recipes and some technique to bring it all together.  If that technique includes getting a "feel" for the dough, great.  If not, measure in grams or ounces and read and use someone else's experience to get it right.

Some folks like a thick crust or a lot of toppings.  Some like a thin crust.  Some like their sauce sweet while others don't.  Some like their pizza cooked on a stone and some like it cooked in a pan.

They are all right.  These are opinions about the best pizza, not statements of fact.  There are no wrong opinions.


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## Caine (May 18, 2007)

Bridgett said:
			
		

> To all those people out there saying that the sauce is the key - some of the best authentic pizzas i had in italy were "pizza bianco" (i.e. white pizza - no tomato sauce!)


 
In accordance with the Food & Drug Administration's (FDA) Pizza Identity Standards, in order to call it a pizza, it MUST contain tomatoes. Wolfgang Puck found this out, the hard way!


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## csalt (May 18, 2007)

Mirandgl Very many thanks for the recipe. I'll try it as soon as I have time.


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## IronSides (May 18, 2007)

Caine said:
			
		

> Al contrario, mio amica, the secrect to great pizza is a flavorful sauce!
> Many pizza joints have come and gone because, althought their crust was just the right thickness, with just the right crustiness, and just the right internal texture, the sauce was troppo mezzo mezzo, which will not appeal to the true pizza aficionado.



Agreed...I think the sauce is super important...but I think just like crust sauce is about preference as well. If I don't like the sauce being used on the pizza there is no way I will eat it...haha but then again I am reallllly picky!


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## CasperImproved (May 18, 2007)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> Pizza is one of those thing that people get passionate about. as this thread attests.
> 
> The secret to great pizza is not the crust.  It's not the sauce.  It's not the cheese or the toppings.  The truth is, there is no secret.
> 
> ...



Great post Andy, and I could not have said it better. For example the couple of anti-pineapple posts. I thought dissert pizzas were pretty good (after I tried a few). 

Just like on a previous post said sliced boiled eggs were good. I also woud not have thought that, had it not been a surprise restaurant add on. 

One of the things all should consider is that no perfect pizza exists. Some like white, some like tomatoe sause, some (like me like tomato paste), etc. I think the important thing is that fresh ingredients are used, and you taylor to your *own* likes. Experimental cooking on something like pizzas is really fun for someone that likes to cook. 

One of my favorite pizzas is primarily tart red cherries (with a cherry sause), on a good savory pizza crust, and criss-crossed with a lite powder sugar frosting over the top. I would never had thought to do one, except a tried a similar pizza at a lowly Dominoes (US pizza chain restaurant) when I did not have time for a regular lunch amount of time on a business trip.

Experiment with things you like!

Casper


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## legend_018 (May 19, 2007)

Later today, I might be trying a new dough recipe that calls for mostly whole wheat flour mixed with all-purpose flour.


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## markgill (May 19, 2007)

The best way to learn how to make pizza is to work in your favourite pizza place. I did and eventually got what it was. The dough varies from place to place and the sauce does as well but the main factor is to keep it as simple as a simple food is supposed to be. If you add lots of different things to a sauce you tend to lose individual flavours and end up with a confused palate. And of course the best ingredients possible (for some of us that would also mean tinned tomatoes).


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## Caine (May 19, 2007)

CasperImproved said:
			
		

> I thought dissert pizzas were pretty good (after I tried a few).


 
Unfortunately, the typical "Hawaiian" pizza with ham and pineapple toppings is not meant to be a dessert pizza. They're serious about it, and so are the people who eat it. 

If you want a dessert pizzza, here's a real dessert pizza recipe, in honor of the *24th annual California Strawberry Festival* this week-end.

*GRILLED STRAWBERRY AND GOAT CHEESE DESSERT PIZZA*​ 
_1 packet active dry yeast
¾ cup warm water
2 cups all-purpose flour
½ tsp salt
2 Tbs vegetable oil, plus 1 1/2 tsp 
1 Tbs heavy cream
1 pound fresh strawberries, rinsed and patted dry, hulled, and thinly sliced
¼  cup orange liqueur
2 Tbs sugar
8 ounces goat cheese, at room temperature
3 Tbs plus 2 tsp honey
1 Tbs Armagnac or brandy 
¼   tsp freshly ground black pepper
8 fresh mint leaves, torn into pieces_ 
 
To make the crusts, in a medium bowl, combine the yeast, water, and 1 Tbs of the flour. Whisk to blend. Let sit until the mixture becomes slightly foamy, about 5 minutes. 
Combine the remaining flour and salt in a large bowl and stir to blend. Add the yeast mixture, 2 Tbs of the oil, and the cream. Stir well with a heavy wooden spoon until it begins to come together and pull away from the sides of the bowl. Turn out onto a lightly floured surface and knead for 4 to 5 minutes into a smooth, but slightly sticky dough. Oil a clean bowl with 1 tsp of the oil and turn the dough in the oil to lightly coat. Cover the bowl with plastic wrap or a clean kitchen towel and allow to rise until doubled in size in a warm, draft-free place, about 40 minutes. 
 
Lightly grease a baking sheet with the remaining 1/2 tsp of oil. Divide the dough into 2 equal pieces and form into balls. Place on the greased sheet, cover with plastic wrap, and refrigerate until doubled in volume, about 2 hours. 
 
Combine the strawberries, orange liqueur, and sugar in a medium bowl, and toss to coat evenly. Clean a grill very well with a brush, and lightly grease with vegetable oil. Preheat the grill to medium heat. Combine the goat cheese and 3 Tbs honey in a bowl and mash with a fork until smooth. Remove the dough from the refrigerator and roll each ball into a 10-inch round on a lightly floured pizza paddle or large chopping board. Transfer to the grill and cook on 1 side until golden brown, turning with a spatula to mark evenly, 3 to 4 minutes. Remove from the grill and place, cooked side up on, on a pizza paddle or large chopping board. 
 
Spread half of the goat cheese mixture across each piece of crust using a rubber spatula. Spread half of the berries across the top, leaving the liquid in the bottom of the bowl. 
Transfer the pizzas to the grill, cover, and cook until golden brown, rotating with a spatula to keep from burning, 3 to 4 minutes. Transfer to serving plates, sprinkle each with a pinch of black pepper and half of the mint leaves. Drizzle each pizza with 1 tsp of the remaining honey and serve. 
 
Alternately, place a pizza stone in the oven and preheat to 500 degrees F. 
Remove the dough from the refrigerator and roll out into a 10-inch round on a lightly floured pizza paddle or large chopping board. Make "dimples" with your fingertips on the top of the dough. Spread half of the goat cheese mixture across the pizza using a rubber spatula. Spread half of the berries across the top of the pizza, leaving the liquid in the bottom of the bowl. Repeat with the remaining dough, goat cheese, and strawberries.


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