# My first try with transglutaminase (aka "meat glue")!



## Rob Babcock (Feb 23, 2012)

Okay, a while back I found a place that offered 50 gram packages of some of the MG items normally sold in bulk to restaurants.  One of the things they sold was ACTIVA RM.  This is a mixture of caseine, tg and maltodextrin.  The stuff is an enzyme that creates a covalent bond between protein molecules, resulting an a "weld" that makes essentially one chunk.  If this sounds scary, almost everyone here has probably eaten it before- surimi, fake crab sticks and flakes, couldn't be made without the stuff.

At any rate I wound up buying a couple packs and finally got the chance to try it tonite.  I had about a 2.5 lb piece of flank steak that I bought on sale, and figured it would be a good thing to try.  Now most of you know that flank is very tasty but very, very thin.  You have to cook it on high heat and just briefly or it's gonna be overcooked.  So I decided to make a roll of it.

I started by laying it out on my cutting board and cutting a lengthwise strip off the edge (with the grain).  I then sprinkled the powder on all surfaces of the strip, then on the entire remaining portion.  It really looks and feels like cornstarch, light and very fine powder.  I rolled it as tightly as I could, but the one problem I had is that the only cling film I had was the short 10" roll, not the 18" wide stuff I use at work.  Basically I think I got it rolled up tight enough to work, but we'll see.

Anyways, then it's into the fridge to set.  The stuff will activate below 50 F over a few hours, achieving the maximum bond overnight.  With luck, if I used the right amount rofl and rolled it tightly enough I'll have a chunk of flank with the form factor of a beef tenderloin.  If it works I'll probably cook half of it sous vide @ 130 F and cook the rest conventionally (on the gas grill, probably).

I'll let you all know how the experiment went tomorrow!


----------



## taxlady (Feb 23, 2012)

Sounds interesting. I'll be watching for follow up posts.


----------



## blissful (Feb 23, 2012)

I want to see pictures.


----------



## FrankZ (Feb 23, 2012)

Without pictures this never ever happened.


----------



## blissful (Feb 23, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> Without pictures this never ever happened.




It could have still happened, it just couldn't be proved!
OH my cheek muscles are tired now.

I love a good science experiment.


----------



## GLC (Feb 23, 2012)

Okay. This is going to be one of those threads that leads off into food adventures. 

I first took a look on amazon for transglutaminase. Found it, but also found a bunch of molecular gastronomy tools, as well as other things the search engine thought it should throw out. Let's see.

Artistre' products. artistre.info
The most interesting to me were spherification, flavoring, and carbonation tools. The carbonation tool is simply a powdered and flavorless version of "Pop Rocks" to add fizzle. The flavoring area was of more interest. Cooking for two, powdered coconut milk and powdered heavy cream might be worth looking at as shelf-stable forms. Spherification I need to read more on and think about. 

Then, chili threads popped up. Shredded chili pods for garnishing. Hadn't run into these before, not knowingly. But reading comments on them from around the Internet, I suspect I'll be trying them. Kind of pricey, though. I find no published instructions for making them. Might be a worthy experiment, because I suspect it would be nice to have them made from a few different peppers. Maybe use a zester and then dry them over smoke. 

Amazon only had meat glue in kg bags. But following some links, I found some in 50g bags for $13 at Transglutaminase (Meat Glue) .  

Some of the more rational things that occur to me are bonding the bacon wrapping onto scallops or filets so that they stay put during cooking and cutting. I could also imagine creating meat tubes to be stuffed that would stay connected as tubes during cooking or binding a protein filler to the tube to treat it as one piece. Some of the less rational and more Robot Chicken like thoughts would be like making everyone happy by gluing chicken drumsticks onto the sides of a beef roast.


----------



## taxlady (Feb 23, 2012)

Spherification reminded me of  "Assume a spherical cow of uniform density..."


----------



## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 23, 2012)

My advice: whatever you do, DO NOT attempt this on a night with thunder storms and lightning, and particularly DO NOT fly a kite with wire instead of string and connect the wire to your cooking pot.

You were warned!


----------



## GLC (Feb 23, 2012)

taxlady said:


> Spherification reminded me of  "Assume a spherical cow of uniform density..."



Don't start that. I remember the first day in Calculus II when the professor presented the problem of a sphere with a six-inch diameter hole drilled all the way through one axis, no other information, and demanded the volume of the remainder of the sphere.


----------



## GLC (Feb 23, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> My advice: whatever you do, DO NOT attempt this on a night with thunder storms and lightning, and particularly DO NOT fly a kite with wire instead of string and connect the wire to your cooking pot.
> 
> You were warned!



Now, now. You have to go into these things with a positive attitude.

It Could Work - Young Frankenstein - YouTube


----------



## Andy M. (Feb 23, 2012)

Rob, could you use this stuff on humans to, um... like, glue parts, um, you know, together...  Just curious, you know, scientifically, that is.


----------



## blissful (Feb 23, 2012)

Andy M. said:


> Rob, could you use this stuff on humans to, um... like, glue parts, um, you know, together...  Just curious, you know, scientifically, that is.



Pictures?


----------



## Andy M. (Feb 23, 2012)

blissful said:


> Pictures?




Use your imagination.


----------



## blissful (Feb 23, 2012)

Andy M. said:


> Use your imagination.



Pictures are more scientific.


----------



## Andy M. (Feb 23, 2012)

blissful said:


> Pictures are more scientific.



...and potentially more embarrassing.


----------



## 4meandthem (Feb 23, 2012)

What's under the bed andy?


----------



## 4meandthem (Feb 23, 2012)

I like the idea of making a chicken with six legs or something freaky to serve at a party.


----------



## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 23, 2012)

Maybe somebody should try using Superglue. I've heard of cyanoacrylate being used as a surgical adhesive instead of stitches, so it probably wouldn't be that bad for you.

(Kids, you read this on the Internet. Anybody can post anything they want on the Internet so please don't try this at home!)


----------



## 4meandthem (Feb 23, 2012)

I like the disclaimer greg


----------



## Andy M. (Feb 23, 2012)

4meandthem said:


> What's under the bed andy?



I don't know.  I'm afraid to look under there.


----------



## Rob Babcock (Feb 23, 2012)

GLC said:


> Amazon only had meat glue in kg bags. But following some links, I found some in 50g bags for $13 at Transglutaminase (Meat Glue) .
> 
> Some of the more rational things that occur to me are bonding the bacon wrapping onto scallops or filets so that they stay put during cooking and cutting. I could also imagine creating meat tubes to be stuffed that would stay connected as tubes during cooking or binding a protein filler to the tube to treat it as one piece. Some of the less rational and more Robot Chicken like thoughts would be like making everyone happy by gluing chicken drumsticks onto the sides of a beef roast.



That's where I bought mine.  And the ideas you list are all good ones, ones I'm planning on trying (well, except the Robot Chicken!).  I've heard of RM being used to "glue" chicken skin onto salmon.  I want to laminate some chicken and pork to make a "Chorkwhich".

I'll try to get a picture of the result.  It stuck pretty good in some places, not as well in other.  In retrospect I think I made 2 errors.  First, I went a bit too light on the stuff; it's supposed to be sprinkled on at around 1% weight of the product.  Looking at some videos I see now I was a bit too timid!  Second I think it would be more consistent a roll if I'd cut all into lengthwise strips and bundled it.

Still, not bad for a first attempt.  I'll try to snap some pics later this evening.


----------



## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 23, 2012)

Rob I'd like to see an analysis of whether what you got was worth the trouble. People have been rolling flank steaks and tying with string for eons (well, centuries at least) with good results. Why would glue be better than string?


----------



## Rob Babcock (Feb 23, 2012)

Well, flank was simply on sale, so that's what I used.  The difference between tying and using the enzyme is that the former merely holds it while you roast it- the latter makes it essentially one piece, allowing you to use it any way you like.  For example, slicing it into thin medallions before cooking.


----------



## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 23, 2012)

Slicing into medallions before cooking is a novel concept. I'll be interested in reading your experience when you report back.

Just don't do it when there's thunderstorm-y weather!  If one of them things comes alive...


----------



## GLC (Feb 23, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> Just don't do it when there's thunderstorm-y weather!  If one of them things comes alive...



robot chicken opening - YouTube

*Now we're cookin'!*​


----------



## Rob Babcock (Feb 24, 2012)

Okay, here's a picture of the roll, cut in half.  I plan to sous vide one half @ 130 F.  You can see that I didn't quite get it rolled completely tight- probably would have worked better to make strips first.  Oh well, next time.


----------



## blissful (Feb 24, 2012)

Rob Babcock said:


> Okay, here's a picture of the roll, cut in half.  I plan to sous vide one half @ 130 F.  You can see that I didn't quite get it rolled completely tight- probably would have worked better to make strips first.  Oh well, next time.



Thank you for the picture! It looks just fine.


----------



## TATTRAT (Feb 24, 2012)

Meat Glue Secret - YouTube

kudos for the effort, but for me, personally, I don't think I could get into it.


----------



## Rob Babcock (Feb 24, 2012)

TATTRAT said:


> Meat Glue Secret - YouTube
> 
> kudos for the effort, but for me, personally, I don't think I could get into it.



Awww, what a groaner!  That fluff piece is one of the oldest propaganda hatchet jobs still slogging thru the interwebz Zombie Style!  It's almost entirely fiction and the few true parts are completely irrelevant to the home cook.

I'm not trying to perpetrate fraud on people expecting a "whole muscle"- I'm making dinner at home!  Please keep the police out of my dining room!


----------



## Andy M. (Feb 24, 2012)

Rob Babcock said:


> Okay, here's a picture of the roll, cut in half.  I plan to sous vide one half @ 130 F.  You can see that I didn't quite get it rolled completely tight- probably would have worked better to make strips first.  Oh well, next time.




Rob, if you cut a filet off that roll and cook it to medium rare perfection, it's still going to be flank steak, right?  No one is going to 'mis-steak' it for a filet mignon.


----------



## Rob Babcock (Feb 24, 2012)

Andy M. said:


> Rob, if you cut a filet off that roll and cook it to medium rare perfection, it's still going to be flank steak, right?  No one is going to 'mis-steak' it for a filet mignon.



"Mis-steak"!  Have  you no shame!  Of course you're right.  It's just flank steak.  As other posters have mentioned, you could just roll it and tie it with butcher's string.  But once bonded, free of the need to tie it, I can do other things with it.

Flank arguably has better flavor than filet.  It's just tough to deal with a steak that's so thin.  But with sous vide I can cook it til it's very tender yet still medium rare.  And now I can use a different form factor.

My goal isn't to freak people out with "Franken-meat"!  It's just to explore how we can use science to bend food more into the "Platonic Ideal" of a dish. To create that concept that we have in our mind that food must be "convinced" to attain!


----------



## FrankZ (Feb 24, 2012)

Looks good Rob.  Please do keep us updated on how the experiments go.

You may also consider doing all the work in a chamber you can incinerate if they become to aggressive and try to take over the world.


----------



## blissful (May 2, 2012)

Here is a video of putting a steak together with meat glue made out of stew meat. Yahoo news today.
I had no idea it was a clotting agent from pigs and cows blood.
take a look.
Is Your Prime Steak Held Together By 'Meat Glue?' - Yahoo! News


----------



## Greg Who Cooks (May 2, 2012)

blissful said:


> I had no idea it was a clotting agent from pigs and cows blood.


That sounds rather unappealing.


----------



## FrankZ (May 2, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> That sounds rather unappealing.



It was more interesting when it was transglutaminase eh?


----------



## TATTRAT (May 2, 2012)

TATTRAT said:


> Meat Glue Secret - YouTube
> 
> kudos for the effort, but for me, personally, I don't think I could get into it.





Rob Babcock said:


> Awww, what a groaner!  That fluff piece is one of the oldest propaganda hatchet jobs still slogging thru the interwebz Zombie Style!  It's almost entirely fiction and the few true parts are completely irrelevant to the home cook.
> 
> I'm not trying to perpetrate fraud on people expecting a "whole muscle"- I'm making dinner at home!  Please keep the police out of my dining room!





blissful said:


> Here is a video of putting a steak together with meat glue made out of stew meat. Yahoo news today.
> I had no idea it was a clotting agent from pigs and cows blood.
> take a look.
> Is Your Prime Steak Held Together By 'Meat Glue?' - Yahoo! News




Be careful with the "fluff" pieces, lol.


----------



## blissful (May 2, 2012)

The video says something about how gluing meat together is putting the most likely bacteria ridden parts (stew meat) from the outside into the inside of the 'glued steak'. The problem is that using this glue isn't regulated in restaurants and impossible to know if it is being used in a cooked steak. For a glued steak, the inside should be cooked thoroughly. No more ordering rare or medium rare, to be safe.

I'm just not going to eat steak out anymore--at least boneless filet mignon.

I predict a public outcry on glued steaks in the near future, with truth in advertising and it can be called 'coagulated steak'. 
Monsieur: Woood you care for zee coagulated filet?
Customer: WE WE


----------



## Greg Who Cooks (May 2, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> It was more interesting when it was transglutaminase eh?



Less unappealing. I can't imagine myself having any application for this stuff.

Blissful brings up some good points about gluing bacteria laden parts inside a steak where it might not get safely cooked.


I'm waiting for somebody to start gluing together pink slime.


----------



## blissful (May 2, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> Less unappealing. I can't imagine myself having any application for this stuff.


I was thinking applying bacon to meat, might be a good application.



> Blissful brings up some good points about gluing bacteria laden parts inside a steak where it might not get safely cooked.


Thanks though I just learned about that in the video/news thing.



> I'm waiting for somebody to start gluing together pink slime.




It kind of reminds me of blood sausage--we've got clotting agents from pig and cow blood mixed with meat. ???


----------



## Greg Who Cooks (May 2, 2012)

That's an interesting idea about applying bacon to meat (I presume like a fillet mignon or something). I've tried fillets the supermarket wrapped with bacon and tied with string and didn't find any way to sufficiently cook the bacon without overdoing the steak. Perhaps I should have put more effort into browning the edge of the fillet. I never went to the effort of repeating the experiment.

I'm not particularly fond of the idea of any products with the word "blood" in them. Yes I'm probably missing something... I'm reminded of Asian markets where it appears you can buy the blood separately presumably if you have some recipe that calls for blood as an ingredient. Again, this idea does not sound particularly attractive to me.


----------



## blissful (May 2, 2012)

In the bacon wrapped filet--what if you partially cooked the bacon before putting it on the filet? I wonder if the meat glue would work with partially cooked bacon to beef? 
Supposedly, it should work, protein to protein.
Inquiring minds want to know! 

I wonder how it would work for those people that use bacon weaved together to hold a roll of meat around more ingredients and then smoke it?
Picture it here:


----------



## Greg Who Cooks (May 2, 2012)

blissful said:


> In the bacon wrapped filet--what if you partially cooked the bacon before putting it on the filet? I wonder if the meat glue would work with partially cooked bacon to beef?
> Supposedly, it should work, protein to protein.
> Inquiring minds want to know!
> 
> I wonder how it would work for those people that use bacon weaved together to hold a roll of meat around more ingredients and then smoke it?



Yes but when you cook your bacon it will become coated with fat. Fat is not protein. I don't see how this "miracle" product can glue fat to protein.

Weaving bacon around a roll of meat is a great smoking idea, but it does not rely on the bacon adhering to the enclosed meat, and the cooking process is slow and gentle, not disturbing the meat-bacon interface too much. It's more like making a bacon basket to enclose your treat.


----------



## blissful (May 2, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> Yes but when you cook your bacon it will become coated with fat. Fat is not protein. I don't see how this "miracle" product can glue fat to protein.



You are probably right--the bacon would have to have some protein in it on the surface to be glued.


----------



## Bethanie (Sep 4, 2013)

*Transglutaminased Chicken*

I know this forum's a bit old, but I just tried meat glue this weekend and got surprisingly good results.  I attempted a recipe from Thomas Keller's Under Pressure where created a layered chicken dish.  

Starts with deboning chicken legs and filling them with a chicken mousse to create a sort of chicken on chicken on chicken sandwich.  All held together with transglutaminase.  Worked fairly well.


----------



## Dawgluver (Sep 4, 2013)

Welcome to DC!  Looks interesting, how did it taste?


----------



## Greg Who Cooks (Sep 4, 2013)

I'd like to hear more about this subject.


----------



## Bethanie (Sep 5, 2013)

*Chestnut Stuffed Chicken*

It was actually really tasty.  I was worried about the bonds holding, especially since the Chicken mousse was really wet.  But 6 hours in the fridge firmed it up and then I cooked it sous vide for a couple hours.  Even after removing it and searing it, the entire package never felt like it was moving or slipping.  It was really impressive.  

Here are pics of the mousse and the chicken as I was sifting the glue.


----------



## Greg Who Cooks (Sep 5, 2013)

Where do you this transglutimase? I just checked Amazon and I can get a 2.2# (1 Kg) bag for $103.96. Uh, yeah, that sounds like enough to glue a couple hundred cows together... Actually that sounds sort'a fun!


----------



## Bethanie (Sep 6, 2013)

*Where to buy*

I found a pretty good source: 

Transglutaminase

From here it's about $25 for 3.5oz and you don't use a lot so it lasts for a long time.


----------



## Greg Who Cooks (Sep 6, 2013)

I'd rather invest about $10 maximum before I commit to using TG as a regular ingredient.


----------

