# Sugar - Can it be Healthy? (split)



## eatsOats (Feb 20, 2007)

IMHO, if a recipe contains sugar it should not have the word "health" in the title.


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## Andy M. (Feb 21, 2007)

eatsOats said:
			
		

> IMHO, if a recipe contains sugar it should not have the word "health" in the title.


 

Are you suggesting any amount of sugar is not healthful?


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## IainDaniel (Feb 21, 2007)

Sugar products are not healthy no.

But natural sugars from fruits and other non processed foods are fine.

Corey, it seems like a lot of the food you list don't seem to be helpful with type II diabetes.  These Granola bars and yogurt bars are loaded with sugar that are going to send your blood sugar all over the place.  Sure they may be helpful when you are on the low side of your Blood sugar.  

Ideally you should be eating non processed carbs (processed carbs are quicker digesting and will cause more dramatic flucuations in your blood glucose)  Stick to Brown Rice, Sweet Potatoes, Oatmeal, Oat bran.  Balance your diet with Proteins, Complex carbs, and healthy fats.  and try to eat 5-6 meals a day, to keep your blood sugar levels consistent.


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## Corey123 (Feb 21, 2007)

IainDaniel said:
			
		

> Sugar products are not healthy no.
> 
> But natural sugars from fruits and other non processed foods are fine.
> 
> ...


 


Actually, I don't eat as much sugar as you seem to think I do.

But then again, who on earth eats cereal, any kind without a little sugar? Except maybe yourself.

My nutritionist did not say eat sweets all the time, but she DID say that sugar simply can't be eliminated altogether. Yes, OJ is naturally sweet, has lots of sugar and helps gets the glucose level back to normal.

But I found myself having those attacks at least twice daily! Mainly in the afternoon. And I don't eat the granola bars all the time. Only when an attack starts to come on.

And oh yes, speaking of sugar, the nutritionist also suggested that I keep some candy around as well. Sorry, but also, when I bake now and then, no one on the face of the earth bakes a cake, pie or cookies without sugar in them.


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## nancylee (Feb 21, 2007)

Well I have to say I always eat oatmeal without sugar!  I add blueberries or other sliced fruit.(no canned)
I think we as a society have become addicted to sugar. 
 In the last few years I've made some big changes in our way of eating, I belong to a food coop. I never buy boxed anything.  So that means I do the outside edges of the grocery store.  Fruits and vegies and the organic and natural and I'm done!
nancylee


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## lulu (Feb 21, 2007)

In Uk many people consider suger on porridge to be a travesty or an indulgence too far!  In Scotland, and some other Britsh families, you eat porridge with a little salt.  In my family we have salt, fruit, or on high day and holidays we do have sugar: brown sugar and cream!  But not sugar every day.  I think in general when you cut down on sugar you notice the flavours of things more.  It takes a while, but it does happen.  I have blood sugar probs, and I notice I have faint-wobblies far less frequently when my overall intake of simple sugars is low, and in general I feel more well.  That does not mean I always live like that though!  when I do however I do notice I get a faint-wobbly later in the day when I break my sugar ban, eg if I have cake at eleven I NEED something sweet in the mid afternoon.  That is what makes  it such a tough cycle to break.


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## Corey123 (Feb 21, 2007)

nancylee said:
			
		

> Well I have to say I always eat oatmeal without sugar! I add blueberries or other sliced fruit.(no canned)
> I think we as a society have become addicted to sugar.
> In the last few years I've made some big changes in our way of eating, I belong to a food coop. I never buy boxed anything. So that means I do the outside edges of the grocery store. Fruits and veggies and the organic and natural and I'm done!
> nancylee


 


Ever since were kids, we've always had sugar on our cereal, hot or cold, unledss the cereal was already sweetened.

I do not eat cereal without sugar, and I'm not about to start now.


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## Alix (Feb 21, 2007)

Corey123 said:
			
		

> I do not eat cereal without sugar, and I'm not about to start now.


 
Come on Corey, you have done so well with other changes to your life. Those tablespoons of sugar can really mess up that blood sugar. Try some fruit cut up on your cereal instead, you will be surprised at how it sweetens things up.


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## eatsOats (Feb 21, 2007)

Corey123 said:
			
		

> Ever since were kids, we've always had sugar on our cereal, hot or cold, unledss the cereal was already sweetened.
> 
> I do not eat cereal without sugar, and I'm not about to start now.


I'm not going to attempt to convince you to do otherwise, but just know that Splenda (sucralose) is a very worthy sugar substitute, especially on cereal.


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## eatsOats (Feb 21, 2007)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> Are you suggesting any amount of sugar is not healthful?


It's a little more complicated than that.  I think sugar in the form of fructose has a much smaller impact on blood glucose levels than does table sugar.  Depending on one's fitness goals, sugars in the form of dextrose can be used beneficially for glycogen replenishment and to elicit an insulin response post-workout.

But table sugar... I believe the more you can stay away from that the better off you are.  Molasses and honey make good natural sweetners, and sucralose is even better for maintaining consistent blood sugar levels.  Yes, table sugar tastes great and it's hard to bake sweets and treat without it.  What does that mean for someone who is very health conscious?  Keep them to a minimum.


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## Andy M. (Feb 21, 2007)

Aside from their effects on diabetics, I don't think one form of sugar is more or less healthful than another. Sucrose, fructose, glucose, etc. are all naturally occurring sugars which are harmless in moderation.


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## Corey123 (Feb 21, 2007)

Alix said:
			
		

> Come on Corey, you have done so well with other changes to your life. Those tablespoons of sugar can really mess up that blood sugar. Try some fruit cut up on your cereal instead, you will be surprised at how it sweetens things up.


 


My glucose level gets so low at times that i have to keep a check on it quite often. The other day, I got a level of 62 on the meter, and that's considered pretty low.

It NEVER got THAT low before! That's considered going on the danger level. I DO at times, eat bananas on cereal.

EatsOats, I DO have Domino De'Lite, a low-cal sweetner that's similar to Splenda. And I use it at times, but too much of it makes your food and drink taste like medicine.

And these sweetners are also ridiculously overpriced! For a 3-lb bag, it can run you about $7 to $9!!


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## redkitty (Feb 22, 2007)

Corey, try unsweetened apple sauce in your oatmeal.  And fruit, I buy frozen blueberries and run them under some warm water and toss them into the oatmeal!  Very tasty!

I know its hard, but oatmeal taste sooo much better without any added sugar!


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## IainDaniel (Feb 22, 2007)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> Aside from their effects on diabetics, I don't think one form of sugar is more or less healthful than another. Sucrose, fructose, glucose, etc. are all naturally occurring sugars which are harmless in moderation.


Agreed in Moderation, and where your moderation line depends on your lifestyle.

What is the point of Table sugar?  Nothing really, It provides nothing.

However fruits for example have many nutrients, antioxidants, vitamins, and fibre.  Plus the fructose you ingest is used to replenish liver glycogen.

Any complex carb you consume is converted to glucose to replenish gylcogen stores in the body, not the ups and downs such as being provided from simple sugars.

What is the difference between fruit/complex carbs and sugar?  The form they come in.  

Table sugar is broken down pretty quickly and wil cause a quick insulin burst and then a low.

Where as complex carbs when consumed the digestion process is slowed down from the additional fibre.  So if you are eating every 2-3 hours you have a steady stream of energy being fed to the body.


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## IainDaniel (Feb 22, 2007)

Corey123 said:
			
		

> Actually, I don't eat as much sugar as you seem to think I do.
> 
> But then again, who on earth eats cereal, any kind without a little sugar? Except maybe yourself.
> 
> ...



I was just trying to provide something for you to think about.  Diabetes is a very serious issue, and not something to play around with, as it has serious consequences.

Food choices and meal timing are going to be the key to controlling blood sugar issues.

Cakes, pie and cookies are fine but you have to remember they should be looked at as a treat for maybe eating cleanly all week, then treat yourself sunday night with some cookies or a slice of pie.

However that said,  the choice is yours.


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## Andy M. (Feb 22, 2007)

IainDaniel said:
			
		

> ...What is the point of Table sugar? Nothing really, It provides nothing...


 

It provides flavor and energy.  It has it's place.

Medical and physiological reasons are not the only reasons for eating a food.  I don't want a strawberry in my morning coffee, I want sucrose (it dissolves faster).

Many common ingredients we use in cooking are there for their flavor and for no other reason.  That's not a bad thing.


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## IainDaniel (Feb 22, 2007)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> It provides flavor and energy.  It has it's place.
> 
> Medical and physiological reasons are not the only reasons for eating a food.  I don't want a strawberry in my morning coffee, I want sucrose (it dissolves faster).
> 
> Many common ingredients we use in cooking are there for their flavor and for no other reason.  That's not a bad thing.


It does provide flavour, but there are alternatives.

I wonder how long the strawberry would take to dissolve 

Most of the ingredients don't have the impact that sugar has.  Especially considering the use of sugar in today's society.

Like you said though in moderation it is fine.  However people with Diabetes need to look at this a more strictly.

Don't get me wrong I enjoy baked goods and and many products that contain sugar, but many people don't know where to draw the line, and are uncertain what healthy eating is.  I am just providing another point of view.  Society in general has become very lazy with there food prep. and in turn we are dealing with a obesity problem.  Yes I realize sugar isn't the only culprit.


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## Alix (Feb 22, 2007)

Iain, you are right on the money about refined sugar for diabetics. Because it is so easily metabolized it really messes with that lovely steady line folks are looking for in their blood sugars. 

Andy, your comment about the strawberry made me laugh so hard. And yes, sugar DOES have its place and one of those places is all about flavour. For diabetics, especially fragile ones (as Corey's description of himself indicates he is) sugar is a big no no. You really have to make major lifestyle changes FIRST and then look at putting some of that sweet flavour back in your diet. 

Corey, I don't know if this description will help you at all but I'll offer it anyway. 
Think of your years of life as a line. When you have peaks and valleys in your blood sugar it shortens your life. Picture a string laid out and when you push up with your finger, the string's length gets shorter, and down is the same. I wish I could illustrate that on here, but you'll just have to use your imagination. Maintaining a near constant blood sugar level is critical to a healthy life.


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## nancylee (Feb 22, 2007)

One of the fruit bars we have is the Lara bar.  It is dates, nuts,coconut, nothing else.  A good snack.
The problem with rice crispie bars and the like is they are processed foods loaded with sugar and unhealthy fats and high GI starches. low in micronutrients.
The white flour should be as much of a concern as the sugar.  The starch in this highly pulverized form has a higher glycemic index than sugar and occurs in many breads and pasteries and many other foods.   A great contributor to the epidemic of obesity.         But who asked me!  just my opinion.


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## bethzaring (Feb 22, 2007)

IainDaniel said:
			
		

> Agreed in Moderation, and where your moderation line depends on your lifestyle.
> 
> What is the point of Table sugar? Nothing really, It provides nothing.


 
My DH wants no food that has white granulated table sugar added to it.  He eats an enormous bowl of oatmeal most mornings that contains milk, water, oats and a small amount of salt.  He is hypoglycemic and feels white table sugar is a poison in his body.

Yet I buy white table sugar by the 5 pound bag, to make bread.

It has been stated already in this thread, but bears repeating.  The human body can not tell the source of sugar/glucose on the molecular level.  Once I understood that, I quit trying to cook and bake with honey or any other "natural" sugars.  I buy the cheapest white sugar available.

Most bread recipes call for white sugar.  I could not make bread without sugar.  But I now realize that the NY Times bread does not use sugar!


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## YT2095 (Feb 22, 2007)

Sugar, like Salt is neither Healthy or unhealthy same with water too.

the fact is you need ALL of them to live! No seriously, remove any one of these from the diet and you will die!
inversely, too Much off any of this will have serious effects upon your system too.

Keyword: Moderation.


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## Caine (Feb 22, 2007)

All sugars are the same, be they glucose, sucrose, dextrose, fructose, lactose, honey, or molasses. 15 empty calories per teaspoon, and each will jack up your blood sugar at the same rate. The only difference is the sugar's delivery method. If it's contained in fruits, vegetables, or whole grain baked goods, for instance, the fiber in those items will slow down the absorption of the sugar. However, if the sugar is contained in a product made with processed grains, i.e. cold breakfast cereals, Rice Krispie treats, doughnuts, pastries made with some type of refined flour, etc., or in a beverage, well, not only are you getting your blood sugar level jacked up by the sugar, but your body is converting the simple carbohydrates from the refined grain into sugar, too, for a double whammy!

What's even worse is high fructose corn syrup (hfcs). Food manufacturers have been using it, exclusively in some instances, for years because it is 10 times sweeter than sugar, and the cost is 10 times less, pound for pound. Unfortunately, when you ingest hfcs, your body doesn't recognize it as a sugar, so it doesn't signal your pancreas to release insulin to process the hfcs for delivery to your cells. It simply gets slapped onto your body as excess fat, usually in the most embarrassing location it can find. Look behind you, quick! *WHOMP! THERE IT IS!*


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## YT2095 (Feb 22, 2007)

the reason for that is purely a Mechanical one (for wants of a better word), No sugar is "Bad" for you, refined is just more easily and quckly assimilated, that`s all.
when combined, the Stomach is busy doing plenty other things too, and so the rate of absorbtion is slower.
Purely a mechanistic effect.


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## Mel! (Feb 22, 2007)

I think white unrefined sugar is unhealthy.
Bad for the waistline, as well as the teeth.
Mel


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## Candocook (Feb 22, 2007)

It is quite disingenuous to come on a public forum and say "sugar is bad". What are the parameters? Who are you talking about? Why is it bad for every single person in the whole wide world? For goodness sake.


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## Caine (Feb 22, 2007)

There is no such thing as unrefined white sugar. White sugar is made by squeezing the cane, boiling the juice, then extracting the molasses. To make brown sugar, the producers take the refined white sugar, and put molasses back into it. 

I use unrefined sugar, either turbinado or demerara, every day in coffee, instead of flour when dusting a greased cake pan, and when a recipe calls for sugar of any kind. Why, you ask? Is it healthier? No. Does it absorb slower? No. Is it cheaper? Not only no, but **** no! It costs 3 times what white sugar does. I happen to like the way it makes things taste!


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## Mel! (Feb 23, 2007)

Candocook

Yes, white unrefined sugar is bad for everybody. It is not like rat poison and wont kill us, but it is not healthy.

It plays havoc, with our blood sugar level. 

Unfortunately, it is in almost every processed food product available in the shops,

I always use unrefined sugar or honey, in my cooking. 

I do buy a limited number of processed products, containing refined sugar, because ones made with healthier sugar are often very expensive.

I dont know what disingenous means, so I cant comment on, whether I am or not.

Mel


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## Mel! (Feb 23, 2007)

Hello Caine

Not all brown sugar, is made by colouring white sugar. 
I buy raw cane sugar. It is a golden brown colour. 

Mel

PS. I have just read the rest of your post and I see that u already know what raw cane sugar is. But, I probably have to leave this post here, because I am not sure i can delete the text and post a blank.


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## Caine (Feb 23, 2007)

I am still trying to figure out why refined white sugar costs $1.33 a pound, brown sugar, where they had to turn around and put the molasses back, is $1.23 a pound, yet unrefined C&H turbinado sugar is $3.99 for a two pound bag and the Sugar in the Raw brand is $4.40 for a two pound box! The more labor intensive the product, the less it costs? That makes no sense to me.


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## Mel! (Feb 23, 2007)

I often wonder that too, Caine.

Mel


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