# Is it right to go inside a bar and arrest someone for public intoxication?



## texasgirl (Mar 27, 2006)

Do you think it's right for the police to go into a bar, decide that someone is drunk and arrest them because they MIGHT get out on the streets? Without asking if they have a designated driver or whatever?
They are being arrested for PUBLIC intoxication. I always believed that a club or a bar, was PRIVATE property and if you go outside, that was public. Am I wrong in thinking that peoples rights are being violated?
Don't get me wrong, driving drunk is a BIG pet peeve, but, if they don't have proof that these people were going to get on the road, that's not right. They arrested a man that came into town, went to a bar across the street from his hotel and arrested him for slurring his words while INSIDE the bar. He had no intention of driving, he didn't even have a car to drive!!! They didn't care either. What do you think?


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## pdswife (Mar 27, 2006)

I think that if they arrested him for just slurring his words... it's wrong.
BUT... is there more to the story??


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## Constance (Mar 27, 2006)

texasgirl said:
			
		

> Do you think it's right for the police to go into a bar, decide that someone is drunk and arrest them because they MIGHT get out on the streets? Without asking if they have a designated driver or whatever?
> They are being arrested for PUBLIC intoxication. I always believed that a club or a bar, was PRIVATE property and if you go outside, that was public. Am I wrong in thinking that peoples rights are being violated?
> Don't get me wrong, driving drunk is a BIG pet peeve, but, if they don't have proof that these people were going to get on the road, that's not right. They arrested a man that came into town, went to a bar across the street from his hotel and arrested him for slurring his words while INSIDE the bar. He had no intention of driving, he didn't even have a car to drive!!! They didn't care either. What do you think?



I think he should fight it. That's totally wrong...unless the bar manager called the police because he was becoming a nuisance. Is this someone you know?


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## texasgirl (Mar 27, 2006)

pds,To his story, no. I will try to find the link.
It's been all over the news all week.
Connie, this isn't anyone I know, he spoke to the news reporters about it. This doesn't show the guy, but, shows you what they are doing.
http://www.nbc5i.com/news/8034788/detail.html


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## texasgirl (Mar 27, 2006)

Here it is about the guy. I forgot that he had gotten fired from his job over it too. And it wasn't a bar across the street, it was IN the hotel he was staying in. 
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032406dntexbardrinkers.10b9f8a.html


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## SizzlininIN (Mar 27, 2006)

I've typed and retyped my response to this over and over and just can't seem to get the words out correctly so all I'm going to say is no I don't believe the officers were right in taking this approach to arresting someone.  However, if a person is legally drunk then by no means should they be allowed behind a wheel.


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## texasgirl (Mar 27, 2006)

SizzlininIN said:
			
		

> I've typed and retyped my response to this over and over and just can't seem to get the words out correctly so all I'm going to say is no I don't believe the officers were right in taking this approach to arresting someone. However, if a person is legally drunk then by no means should they be allowed behind a wheel.


 
Oh, I agree with you 100%!!
But, to go inside the establishment, not find out first if there is someone else driving, and just arrest them, I don't like that. If they want to do that, wait outside and grab them as they leave and head for a car. That shows that they intend to drive.


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## auntdot (Mar 27, 2006)

Yes, I agree that no one should be allowed to drive drunk.

But his poor guy just had a room in the inn, and went down for a few drinks.

If he is havning a few drinks, and is doing nothing more than that, what harm is he causing?

All he has to do is take the elevator back to his room and go to sleep.

In a town very near me, they have horse race meets every year.

People who have all kinds of money go to them, there is no legal betting but the idea is to drink and make private bets.  And they all get as drunk as skunks.

They then get into their cars and drive home, and the cops do nothing to stop them.

They are at there to direct traffic.

Or, where are the cops outside of rock concerts to pick up folks who have over imbibed some substance, legal or not, and then get behing the wheel?

Heck no, those occasions bring in money for the area.

And the police are told to be, well, forgiving.

But let some guy leave his hotel room, go downstairs to the bar, and drink enough to slur his words, is he a criminal?

Or what is wrong with some people going to a bar and having too much and taking home a cab?

I am curious.  Is 0.8 the limit for public intoxication, or just driving?

And is a person, unlike a driver, requried to take a breath alcohol test who is found in a public place, just minding his own business?

Have gone on for too long, but am not defending drunk drivers.

Just people's right to act responsibly, and yet have a chance to relax legally.


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## Andy M. (Mar 27, 2006)

I am strongly opposed to drunk drivers and feel that the authorities, in general, are too easy on them. MADD is a charity I support.

That being said, I think this is inappropriate behavior for the police. I wonder if it would be supportable in court??

I wonder if there is a pattern to the types of places that are targeted for this type of attention. It would be a way to discourage patronage for these establishments, redirecting the business to others.


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## middie (Mar 27, 2006)

I don't agree with this at all. Next they'll be breaking down people's doors and arresting them in their own home for having one too many.


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## ronjohn55 (Mar 28, 2006)

Being someone who is actively involved in a lot of alcohol-based activites, I have mixed feelings about this. It's really getting into that "slippery slope" type of area.

If a patron is being drunk and disorderly, fine the police can come if called, but to show up unannounced and try to grab someone for "public intoxication" seems like bad news to me. Especially since many bars are privately owned. Yes the public is free to come and go, but it seems to me it's still private property. Just like the parking lot at the mall, at least in Michigan. Private property isn't patrolled by police, because that requires the permission of the lot owner and a local law allowing police to do.

If you're drunk out on the sidewalk, that's a bit different. 

John


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## GB (Mar 28, 2006)

I think the police are violating the spirit of the law here. I agree with John, if the cops are called because someone is acting up then that is one thing, but to come to a bar and just start aresting someone for being drunk is insane.


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## ronjohn55 (Mar 28, 2006)

GB said:
			
		

> I agree with John


 
Oh boy, NOW we're in trouble!  

John


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## GB (Mar 28, 2006)

Better stock up on dried goods, batteries, and water. The world is coming to an end


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## thumpershere2 (Mar 28, 2006)

Not right at all, Gee, can't have any fun anymore.I believe that a person going out to drink better have a driver. I really hope this guy can fight the wrong done him. I hope he sues the county for losing his job and wins big time. At this rate they better start builing alot more jails.


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## texasgirl (Mar 28, 2006)

middie said:
			
		

> I don't agree with this at all. Next they'll be breaking down people's doors and arresting them in their own home for having one too many.


 
That was mine and dh's first thought too!!


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## Run_Out (Mar 28, 2006)

This happened in Irving, TX. The really bad part is that they did not give the people any soberity (sp) test at all. They were just arrested and taken to jail.

The city of Irving should spend some time enforcing code violations, not harassing business and people having a couple of beers. If they get in their cars and drive off, that is another issue, arrest them and take them to jail.

This program started somewhere in Va. and was tossed out of their courts if the information I got is correct.

Later


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## GB (Mar 28, 2006)

For those that answered "Yes", if you feel comfortable doing so would you want to explain why you feel that way? Only if you feel comfotable doing so though.


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## texasgirl (Mar 28, 2006)

GB said:
			
		

> For those that answered "Yes", if you feel comfortable doing so would you want to explain why you feel that way? Only if you feel comfotable doing so though.


 

Right, not to get into a heated argument, just want to know the feelings of the other side. I'm sure there is a valid reason for your answer.


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## buckytom (Mar 28, 2006)

hey, where's mr. aclu on this? (phinz  )

it would never fly in nyc. just about every other bar here is a "cop or fireman bar" meaning that at any given time of the day, that's who you'll find patronizing the place, sometimes even on duty. i'd like to see them try to arrest a brethren.

hmm  i wonder what the irving police chief does on his days off?


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## pckouris (Mar 28, 2006)

Not right! The guy was in his Hotel! He didn't even have a car! Wrong wrong wrong. And as middie said, next they will coming into our homes!


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## mish (Mar 28, 2006)

texasgirl said:
			
		

> Do you think it's right for the police to go into a bar, decide that someone is drunk and arrest them because they MIGHT get out on the streets? Without asking if they have a designated driver or whatever?
> *They are being arrested for PUBLIC intoxication.* I always believed that a club or a bar, was PRIVATE property and if you go outside, that was public. Am I wrong in thinking that peoples rights are being violated?
> Don't get me wrong, driving drunk is a BIG pet peeve, but, if they don't have proof that these people were going to get on the road, that's not right. They arrested a man that came into town, went to a bar across the street from his hotel and arrested him for slurring his words while INSIDE the bar. He had no intention of driving, he didn't even have a car to drive!!! They didn't care either. What do you think?


 
I haven't seen the story, so I can't form an opinion. As I understand it, laws vary from state to state. There are probably some very antiquated laws/rules still in law 'books' today. Public intoxication may or may not be legal. 

Re private/public property - I don't think a bar is private property. One cannot smoke in bars/clubs/restaurants here - and on many beaches smoking/drinking is not permitted. I went to a club where I knew the owner, who smoked, and if one patron complained about cigarette smoke, the police were there. Don't think anyone's predictions/speculations would hold up in court.


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## jennyema (Mar 28, 2006)

I'd have to read the Texas law to be sure, but I bet they do have a strong argument that it's legal to arrest someone for public intoxication in a bar.

Like Mish said, a bar* is not really private property. It is considered a "public accomodation," and must adhere to a variety of laws, as must the patrons.

This is _a lot different_ from having the cops break into your home, which IS private property.

But do I think it's ethically or from a public policy perspective right? Probably not. And I suspect it will be selectively enforced to harass particular bars/patrons.



As opposed to a membership club, like a VFW, etc.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 28, 2006)

I cant tell you how *strongly* I feel about this. All law enforcement that was involved in what happened *should be in jail*. To me this is a violation of peoples civil liberties. If the government felt SO strongly about the dangers of alcohol, it should be *banned*. This country is becoming *unrecognizable.* The government is intruding into our lives *FAR *too much and that is why thousands of British ran away from England and formed the American Colonies. I am loosing faith in America. And MADD is a self-perpetuating institution that has become more of a money maker, than a force for good. http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/InTheNews/DrinkingAndDriving/1111690174.html


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## texasgirl (Mar 28, 2006)

Mish, click on my link about the man, that's what really gets to me.


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## kimbaby (Mar 28, 2006)

If there should not be drunk folks, there should be no bars...
they should arrest the bar tender as well for being an accesory,
seriously I think unless the person caused a huge disturbance then he should be left alone...


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## mudbug (Mar 28, 2006)

just come arrest me right now.  I'll go quietly.....and get an excellent lawyer, you jerks.


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## GB (Mar 28, 2006)

-DEADLY SUSHI- said:
			
		

> All law enforcement that was involved in what happened *should be in jail*.


Sush, I happen to agree with your sentiment that this is completely wrong and that if a person gets drunk in a bar and doesn't bother anyone then that is their business, but why should these police officers be in jail? From what I understand of this case (and I may not completely understand it I openly admit) the law says that you are not allowed to be drunk in public. The officers were just doing what they swore to do when they became cops. We may not agree with the law, but it still is in place and the cops were doing what they were supposed to. 

Now don't get me wrong. I am not saying I think they should have done what they did. Personally I think they should look at the spirit the law was written in and ignore things like this situation. The law was obviously written to protect the public at large from drunk people causing trouble. Someone drinking in a bar and not bothering anyone and not driving should be allowed to do just that IMO.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 28, 2006)

Well GB I said that in 60% truth. Actually, the person who arranged this should be held 100% responsible. As Americans we have civil liberties.

*"First, I have this to say to any peace officer who participated in these raids or others like it**: Hang up your badge and resign now! You have broken your oath to defend the Constitution. You have disgraced the uniform of your department and you've broken the faith of the public and of your fellow officers. Even if you were under under orders, that's no excuse. No one in who wears any uniform in the Unites States is obligated to obey an unlawful order. And these arrests were not lawful by any stretch of the imagination. http://constitutiondeathpool.blogspot.com/*


[FONT=Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]*"Fear of crime is one of the biggest concerns for people*[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]*today. The police have a difficult job to do and not enough resources to do it. *

*But too often, rather than give them those extra resources, Governments opt for short-cut solutions. The police are in a position of great responsibility - and great power. That's why their powers have to be carefully managed, to ensure that they're not abused, and that the public have confidence in them. *

*At the same time, they need the support - of more staff, more money, more resources - so they can genuinely police our streets and help communities feel safer. *[/FONT]

[FONT=Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]*http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/issues/police.shtml*[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]
*It's a difficult but vital balance. On DNA databasing, protections for people in custody and Anti Social Behaviour Orders, the Government risks creating real problems for the police and the public. *

*Tough talk is one thing, but if their tough measures are unjust and don't work, then we all lose in the long run." *

*Benjamin Franklin said it best: *

*"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either."* 

(I dont agree 100% with what the folks say in the links above, but its the best I could find in a pinch)



[/FONT]


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## kitchenelf (Mar 28, 2006)

Is there an election coming up in that city?  Sounds like someone is trying to tidy up maybe.


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## Claire (Mar 28, 2006)

My husband and I used to often take vacations to places where we could get a nice hotel room within walking distance of great restaurants and bars, and walk back to our room.  As a matter of fact, we chose the community we live in because we can do that.  The thought that we could be arrested for no good reason because we chose to walk home rather than drive, knowing we were above the limit for driving is pretty scary.  Public intoxication should be used for people who get into fights, etc.  But saw on the news a couple years ago of places in Virginia where the police arrest people for being genially drunk in a bar ... who have no intentions of driving home, and weren't bothering anyone.  

I have many friends who like to think they don't drink too much, and drive all the time.  The thought that they are on the road, yet people who have the sense to know when they've had one too many and will take a cab or walk can STILL be arrested, before they step out the door, is scary.


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## Alix (Mar 28, 2006)

OK, I have been following this thread for a while now and while I agree that no one should be subject to random police weirdness, I have a hard time believing there isn't more to this story. You just can't fit all the information in a short sound byte, or in so many inches of newspaper column.  

I have a friend who is a police officer and I just can't see him behaving like that without some kind of cause. 

I'm reserving judgement on this one. My crap detector is going off.


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## auntdot (Mar 28, 2006)

I am glad to see there are places that have so few problems with crime that they can  afford to send their officers into bars to arrest people who are quietly having a few drinks containing a legal substance, and not bothering anyone.

Agree with Alix, something sounds strange about this.

But most arrests, searches, etc. based on the selective application of rarely (if ever) applied laws generally don't stand up, I do not believe.

And am with Claire, when we go out for a special meal, and want a bottle of wine and maybe an after dinner drink, make sure we can take a cab or walk.

In a few weeks we will be going to a conference in a hotel, where we will be staying.

Am sure there will be a cocktail hour on one of the nights.

If people were going to be subject to random checking for being a tad tipsy, I am sure the organization would never hold the conference in that area again.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 28, 2006)

The police state has arrived.    It makes me cry. But this is STILL the best county in the world......... for now.


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## tancowgirl2000 (Mar 28, 2006)

OMG!!!  I would absolutely dieif they did that here! I say WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!!  COuld you imagine?  Your go to a bar to DRINK and you cant drink....hmmm....I say Law suit!  If they wanted to "nab" the culprits why not sit outside the bar and wait for them?  Why arrest the innocent....


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## texasgirl (Mar 29, 2006)

Alix said:
			
		

> OK, I have been following this thread for a while now and while I agree that no one should be subject to random police weirdness, I have a hard time believing there isn't more to this story. You just can't fit all the information in a short sound byte, or in so many inches of newspaper column.
> 
> I have a friend who is a police officer and I just can't see him behaving like that without some kind of cause.
> 
> I'm reserving judgement on this one. My crap detector is going off.


 
There is no crap here, Alix!! The TABC {Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission} is doing this. They don't need ANY reason other than they think they are drunk, no blood test, not breathalizer, nothing!! Google it, if you don't believe, but, it's the truth. It's all over the news, radio and newspaper. I don't think that I have ever had someone on here tell me something I put on here is crap. That's okay, I know it true!! I live here, it's happening in one of the cities near me!! Talk to the people that it's happening to!! Tell THEM it's crap.


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## buckytom (Mar 29, 2006)

Alix said:
			
		

> My crap detector is going off.


 
alix, i'm just curious what that sounds like?


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## Alix (Mar 29, 2006)

I have apologized privately in a PM to texasgirl, and now will clarify here for anyone else who is upset with me. 

I am NOT stating that what was reported is crap. What I am saying is that I believe there is unreported (for whatever reason) information. The police may not have released all their info, the media may not have been able to report all their info. My point is I* personally* don't believe I have enough information to make a judgement in this case. So, please do not feel I am disagreeing, rather, I am reserving judgement. 

And buckytom, the crap detector sound is sort of a high pitched whine...like this *buckeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeisabrat*


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## mish (Mar 29, 2006)

The only thing I find objectionable is the repeated use of the word crap.


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## Alix (Mar 29, 2006)

What word would you prefer mish? I thought that was the least objectionable word I could choose for what I truly meant.


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## ronjohn55 (Mar 29, 2006)

Alix said:
			
		

> What word would you prefer mish? I thought that was the least objectionable word I could choose for what I truly meant.


 
Fecal Agitator?  

John


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## texasgirl (Mar 29, 2006)

No problem, Alix. I hope you will forgive the fire back as I DID misunderstand what and how you were saying it.


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## buckytom (Mar 29, 2006)

ronjohn55 said:
			
		

> Fecal Agitator?
> 
> John


 
that would be a crap stirrer. i think alix was slinging poop at tg, not just agitating it.

her detector is very strange too. it sounds a lot like a cross between my neighbors car alarm and a strange bird that has a nest in my tree. i think it's a female mouth-footed loon, probably heading to canada for the warm weather.


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## mudbug (Mar 29, 2006)

Living so close to Our Nation's Capital, I have developed a finely tuned BS detector over the years.

I think it's the same device that Alix has, only a newer and better model.


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## mish (Mar 29, 2006)

mudbug said:
			
		

> Living so close to Our Nation's Capital, I have developed a finely tuned BS detector over the years.
> 
> I think it's the same device that Alix has, only a newer and better model.


 
Here's my Detector/Reading for the Cigarette Taxes/laws in my State:





This message was paid for and sponsored by: Citizens for a Drug Free America


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## mudbug (Mar 29, 2006)

Mish, to quote a certain public person, I feel your pain.  And I live where they grow the stuff.


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## mish (Mar 29, 2006)

mudbug said:
			
		

> Mish, to quote a certain public person, I feel your pain. And I live where they grow the stuff.


 
Rub it in, mud  I haven't knocked over a liquor store lately for a pack o smokes. At $40 a carton, one should be allowed to have a cig in one hand and a drink in the other wherever we want. Or - I won't be back!


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## texasgirl (Mar 30, 2006)

Just to update a little. The news showed one of the State of Texas Representitives and the state is now looking into what TABC has been doing. So far, they said  that they have arrested about 2,200 people. I hope that the state will REALLY do something.


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