# Are we stepping on the ACF's toes?



## Heffey de Chefey

I see a lot of folks with Certified Executive Chef and Certified Master Chef after their names and wonder if they are legitimately certified through the American Culinary Federation.  If they’re not, isn't that disrespectful of those who worked hard and sacrificed much while earning that distinction?


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## GB

Those titles are based on post counts. It is a good humored on topic sort of way to see who is new to the site and who is not. No disrespect intended.


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## Heffey de Chefey

I would urg you to modify the lables now that you are aware that these two are inappropriate.


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## GB

I am not aware they are inappropriate. I think the labels are great actually. No one is claiming to be anything they are not. It is all in fun. Lighten up a little and enjoy life.


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## Heffey de Chefey

I guess it is only inappropriate to those of us who have earned it and understand what being in the brotherhood is all about.  I’m sorry I demonstrated a contrary view and disturbed play time.
 
I will take your advice and ease up on the subject.


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## Alix

Heffey, I just sent you a PM. 

We're sorry you feel our titles are inappropriate. We have several chefs who post here and have done so for years who see nothing inappropriate in the titles. 

Hope you can change your perspective a bit and enjoy things here. This looks like a bit of a bumpy start. We didn't mean to offend you, and I'm sure you don't mean to offend anyone with your "play time" comments either. 

Shall we all try to start over? 

Welcome to DC Heffey, it sounds like you have a lot to offer. Hope you enjoy meeting new people here.


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## GB

There are others here who have earned the title and are not offended by it. I am not sure how many forums you frequent, but this is a pretty normal thing for forums to do. A sailing forum may distinguish post count by calling people who few posts a deckhand while calling people with 1,000 post Captain. A political forum may call people with 5 posts intern while calling other posters President or Emperor. A music forum may call someone with few posts Millie Vanilli while calling someone who lots of posts The Beatles. It is just a way to have fun while giving out some useful information. 

Sarcasm is often times hard to read online without the benefit of voice and physical expression so I do not know if you were being sarcastic when you said you were sorry you demonstrated a contrary view and disturbed playtime. To me, it sounds like you are getting a little worked up over something that is trivial, but maybe I just read you wrong.


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## mollyanne

Hi there Heffey de Chefey...nice to meet you.

Said with tongue-in-cheek: I take it you don't believe people should dress up as someone else for Halloween?  ...and were ticked off when you found out some average Joe was acting as Santa?  ...and, all those actors and actresses in Hollywood  ...Just teasin' you Heffey de Chefey

Actually, I somewhat agree with you to a point...for newbies it's very confusing indeed....especially for those drifting through and not staying around long enough to figure it out. When I first came I didn't think your thoughts but I did experience a temporary blow to my self-esteem with all the "certified chefs" around  ...then i caught on. I find everyone to be quite humble and friendly. Stick around. I love your name!

I think there is an option in the UserCP to change your title to your own choice at some point. 
I'll probably change mine to "Winner of The Milk Debate"...haha, Al


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## JamesS

I often wondered if that was likely to ruffle any feathers.  

It might have been better to use the traditional French Brigade de Cuisine, which is a lot more generic instead.


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## CharlieD

You know it is actually so funny to me, because in all honesty I have never even paid attention to what I was called. I visit few other forums and they also call people names (I'm joking) and on cigar forum it was something really bad, but really funny. 
have to check what I'm called on this forum, will do it after I post here.


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## CharlieD

Oh, my. I am pretty high up in ranking here, wonder if should start charging for any of my advises.


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## GB

CharlieD said:


> I have never even paid attention to what I was called.


That is probably for the best Charlie


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## Heffey de Chefey

My feathers are not quite as ruffled as some of you may think.  My point was more -why use the term certified?  Use master Chef or Executive Chef to have the fun you are seeking and if you truly are certified, use that.
 
I will continue to watch with interest your continued comments and jabs toward me with a grain of salt.  I can certainly take it.
 
It’s great that you created a fun, happy group here.  If my suggestion erodes that atmosphere, by all means ignore it.


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## GB

I think the issue, at least for me, was that your very first post here was of a tone of "hey you guys are doing it wrong and don't deserve this title" instead of making an into post (as most people do, but it certainly is not required) and getting to know the people and the site first before pointing out what you don't like about it. Just my 2 cents. it was not your suggestion that eroded the atmosphere. It was that you did not take the time to get to know us or the site before telling us that we were acting inappropriately. It would be like if someone you had never met came into your home and before even saying hi told you that your color scheme was all wrong.


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## mollyanne

I think Heffey has acted quite gentlemanly really considering how it must seem to a newbie just entering in.....and offers food for thought. Is it possible to just drop the word "certified"? 

James S has a good suggestion...I don't know what "French Brigade de Cuisine" is but sure SOUNDS good...anything sounds good with a french accent 

I checked the userCP and there is no option to pick your own title. Does that priviledge come later after a certain number of posts? I think vbulletin does offer that in their software. Just a thought


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## JamesS

The Brigade de Cuisine is the hierarchy in a traditional French kitchen.  I imagine the newbies might object to being called commis  (pronounced commie) though.


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## mollyanne

I never thought there was anything that a french accent couldn't fix...but that would be one for sure


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## ChefJune

I recommend leaving things just as they are.  This site has been operating successfully for quite a number of years (long before I found it), and it's not broken.


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## GB

There is no option turned on that lets people pick their own title. From time to time there are contests (I think there is one now to name Franks Kitchenaid) in which the winner can pick what they like. Normally though that is not something the member can change.

The problem with using the Brigade de Cuisine is that it is not very accessible to most people. If you think people get confused now when they see Senior Cook next to their name how do you think they would feel with Chef de partie next to their name?

When we created these titles we looked at a number of different options (some having nothing to do with food). We chose to stick with what we have because it was something everyone could relate to without having any knowledge of actual cooking or food. One thing to keep in mind is that this site is for novice as well as professional so we needed something everyone could understand, not just those who received a formal education in food.


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## spork

I didn't understand the designations at first...  didn't like being automatically labeled, given a title without my consent; was baffled how some members were able to change theirs to their liking, intimidated by those who were deemed "certified", and thought of it as web-clutter since our post-counts are numerically identified.  I was more interested in quality of discussion and information rather than quantity, an active and engaging social site that is both serious and playful.  I'm not the biggest fan of the vBulletin  platform, but gave DC a try...

Now, it doesn't bother me.  Because I intend to win *FrankZ*'s "Name my KitchenAid Contest" and I know that *CharlieD* is just one of DC's several "certifiable" cooking enthusiasts.


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## Janet H

Here's a link to Franks thread: http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f84/name-my-kitchenaid-64184.html


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## CharlieD

spork said:


> ... I know that *CharlieD* is just one of DC's several "certifiable" cooking enthusiasts.


 

For a second there I thought you just going to call me certifies a**hole or something like that.


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## Uncle Bob

> I will continue to watch with  interest your continued comments and jabs toward me with a grain of  salt.  I can certainly take it.



I strongly suggest you not hold your breath.....


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## TATTRAT

wait, wait wait. .  . So I am _NOT_ a certified Exec. Chef???


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## GB

Better turn in all those paychecks tatt.


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## TATTRAT

Bummer. . .and here I thought I was pretty good at it


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## babetoo

Heffy, please lighten up, you will enjoy life a lot more. this whole thing is just silly. learn to laugh with others and to laugh at your self


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## spork

TATTRAT said:


> wait, wait wait. .  . So I am _NOT_ a certified Exec. Chef???


Check your stats, tatt, you're still "at large."


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## BreezyCooking

I agree with ChefJune - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And except for a critical first post from a newcomer, it don't look like it's broke.


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## Andy M.

spork said:


> Check your stats, tatt, you're still "at large."



That's wrong.  It should read, "Large Chef"


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## Heffey de Chefey

babetoo said:


> Heffy, please lighten up, you will enjoy life a lot more. this whole thing is just silly. learn to laugh with others and to laugh at your self


 

That is good advice BABETOO, I would be wise to follow it.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

Hello Heffey de Chefey;

I am the one, the only, the illustrious Goodweed of the North, a man known for silliness, a love of food, a love a creativity, a love of adventure, and finally, a love for poking fun at others.  I am officially chef of only one kitchen, my own, in my house.  However, that being said, I look forward to your posts about all things culinary.  You will find all kinds of people here at DC, from the very knowledgeable, and not just about cooking, to those who can hardly boil water.  This is the friendliest site I have ever belonged to, and people truly try to respect each other, and each other's opinions.  I would like to give a cautionary piece of advise though, in the form of  a true story.  

I once worked for a firm that fabricated battery packs for industrial customers.  One of my duties was to solder copper wire leads to battery terminals at certain points, to obtain different voltage values on color-coded wires (voltage is additive when the batteries are place in series).  Because of experience gained while serving as an aviation electronics technician in the U.S. Navy, and from various schools attended in that same organization, I had expert soldering skills.  Our solder iron was not truly large enough for the task and so I used a bit more liquid solder flux to help transfer eough heat to insure a good solder joint.  A co-worker, with almost no soldering experience told me I was making a mess and wasting flux.  He stated that the rosin core of the solder was suffiecient to create a satisfactory product.  I disagreed.  He went to the owner and complained.  He had to clean the excess solder from the sompleted battery pack before packaging was done.  The owner came out to bring me to task.  I asked the co-worker to point out a stack of batteries that he had soldered the wires onto.  He knew where his stack sat.  I walked over to his battery packs and tried to lift them quickly by the wires.  I knew that his soldering method was substandard and that his packs had cold solder joints.  The solder joints, as I expected, failed and the wires sepperated from the battery terminals.  He stated that the battery packs weighed in excess of thirty pounds and that mine would fail as well.  I invited him to test his statement with any random packs from my stack of finished battery packs.  He yanked them up fro the floor by the same wires that I had yanked on, and tugged and bounced them.  He couldn't get one of them to fail.  I turned to the owner and asked him which battery packs he wanted his customers to receive.  The owner to to my co-worker and instructed him to learn from me.  But you see, I didn't at that time have a universty degree.  I did have years of experience in my field, had been a quality assurance inspector of completed soldered work, and had Navy schools to teach me how to solder properly.  If solder joints fail on military aircraft, bad things happen.

This young man who had challenged me was working toward a university diploma in engineering, but had no practical experience, and had no idea that I had advanced electrical soldering training.  He learned a lesson in humility.

Likewise, there are those on this site who may not hold the certificate, but through non-certifiable training, and practical experience prepare food well beyond the ability of many certified chefs who are fresh out of culinary school.  I do hold a bachelor of Science degree in Electrical Engineering, and know just how hard that degree was to come by.  but I also know that for all of the things I learned, when I was to start any job within the field of electronics, I knew enough to get me started, and that there would be continuing education on the job.

Electronics is vast, with required knowledge in everything from mechanical engineering principles, physics, and advance mathematical concepts, as well as the computer sciences.  It is too big to learn in a classroom setting, even 10 years worth, which is what I had between my navy and university training.  So too it is with cooking.  The culinary arts require a great deal of training to learn the required skills to successfully work in a professional kitchen.  But the training obtained in school leaves you in  a position to start learning.  It isn't the end of the learning process.  The degree in electronics, and the certification in the culinary arts shows that you are willing to go the extra mile to get the training you need, and gives you a basic set of tools to work with.

I bring to my kitchen that same thirst for knowledge that I maintained to get my B.S. degree.  But I received my instruction from using scientific method, from learning the techniques used by others, by reading quality texts about cooking, and by using the best techniques that I observed others use, and that produce exceptional results.

Just as I have met people with degrees that were terrible electronics techs, or engineers, I have know certified chefs who were too narrowly focused and due to a lack of humility, where unable to progress in their field.  

In engineering, I will never be the man who has nothing more to learn, even from people who are just starting their own careers in the field.  I am that way in cooking as well.

As people, all we can ever really hope to do is help others learn, try to learn from others, and use the skills and knowledge that we have to the best of our ability.  Don't let labels hold you back.  Labels create limits.

With that said, you now know why some here say that I talk too much, or am sometimes long-winded (and I can't even deny it).  But I offer you my friendship, and hope to share what I know with you, and learn from you as well.  Welcome to DC.  There is a lot here to appreciate, and a lot of caring and freindly people who will make you laugh, and who might bring an occasional tear to the eye.  It is a great community.

And yes,, I write novels as a hobby rather than short stories.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## TATTRAT

Andy M. said:


> That's wrong.  It should read, "Large Chef"



well, that too, Andy, lol.


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## Heffey de Chefey

I admit that I when I entered with this subject I did so with some arrogance and indignation, I meant to.  I have read and understand why you do it, I’m glad to hear some of you agree with me.  I think your site would be better if you did change it up a bit but if you didn't, I am not going to be bitter, upset or care really.  I said my peace and that is enough, it’s no big deal.  
 
I’m off to join a medical advice group, should I enter as a brain surgeon or cancer doctor? hmmmmm (for those who are less than amused, this joke is for you.)

Dr. GoodWeed, I accept your friendship and if my boat-rock'n doesn’t get me tossed off this fine site, I look forward to figuring out what the heck you are talking about.


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## GB

Heffey de Chefey said:


> I admit that I when I entered with this subject I did so with some arrogance and indignation, I meant to.


Just curious...Did you expect to win friends with that attitude?  





Heffey de Chefey said:


> I’m off to join a medical advice group, should I enter as a brain surgeon or cancer doctor? hmmmmm (for those who are less than amused, this joke is for you.)


Well obviously you would enter as an orderly


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## bigdaddy3k

Wait, you mean I'm NOT.....


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## Andy M.

bigdaddy3k said:


> Wait, you mean I'm NOT.....



Given all the recent negative publicity, I'm not sure you should want to be...


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## Selkie

I'm satisfied with being known as a "good cook", even if it's an accolade of my own imagination!


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## GB

Something tells me if others here were to taste your food that "good cook" title would be upgraded to something much better Selkie.


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## bigdaddy3k

Andy M. said:


> Given all the recent negative publicity, I'm not sure you should want to be...


 

They hired me to clean up Dodge and thats what I'm aiming to do partner.


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## Selkie

Thank you. 

For some, receiving a kind word means much more than any title or certification.


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## Andy M.

bigdaddy3k said:


> They hired me to clean up Dodge and thats what I'm aiming to do partner.




It might be easier if you lose the grass skirt, 'Your Hokyness'.


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## bigdaddy3k

Andy M. said:


> It might be easier if you lose the grass skirt, 'Your Hokyness'.


 
Its as intimidating as a kilt on a blue painted Scott. What else would be intimidating to men who wear embroidered dresses?


And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I was born, raised and abused a Catholic so I have every right.


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## Andy M.

bigdaddy3k said:


> Its as intimidating as a kilt on a blue painted Scott. What else would be intimidating to men who wear embroidered dresses?
> 
> 
> And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I was born, raised and abused a Catholic so I have every right.




You have my support.  Go get 'em.


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## Heffey de Chefey

GB said:


> Just curious...Did you expect to win friends with that attitude? Well obviously you would enter as an orderly


 
I think I actually did win a few friends and I’m glad I did.  I don’t know why everyone seems so shocked by a chef acting like a self-righteous a** hole.
 
Come on people, I come by it honestly!


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## westfallgj

*I'll bite...*

OK, I'll play the newbie and bite:

It seems from the postings that the character titles used by posters somehow match some school's (not a slight) titles.  Can someone explain?  I' m not baiting here, but I don't see how some school can lay claim to those things.  I'm an engineer and for me some states require I pass a test to call myself an engineer, some don't.  But no school can claim the title engineer, they only train them.

I always thought those titles were somehow was related to the type of work they do in a kitchen.  So maybe for the rest of the newbies some one could school us


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## Alix

Hey Westfallgj, the titles correspond with your post count. The more posts you make the "higher" in the cooking echelon you go. You progress from Assistant, to Sous, through the ranks to Master and Executive. Its just a fun way of indicating whos been on the site the longest and who has posted a bunch. Does that explain it well enough?


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## BreezyCooking

I can't believe there are 5 pages devoted to this already - LOL!!!


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## westfallgj

Alix said:


> Hey Westfallgj, the titles correspond with your post count. The more posts you make the "higher" in the cooking echelon you go. You progress from Assistant, to Sous, through the ranks to Master and Executive. Its just a fun way of indicating whos been on the site the longest and who has posted a bunch. Does that explain it well enough?



Thanks, but no, I was talking about the poster saying we were stepping on people's toes.  The post count I get, but what is the other end he was taking about?  What are the titles from the school and what do they mean?


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## Andy M.

I believe his issue was with the word CERTIFIED.  Apparently the ACF (American Culinary Federation) certifies chefs.  The OP thought they might be upset if they saw the way we were using the titles.

I received my certification from a different organization, the GPF, the Great Pretenders Foundation.  A non-profic organization founded by the Platters.  Wanna hear our school song?


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## buckytom

i doubt anyone remembers, but this topic was discussed when the titles thing was first introduced many years ago. a few people thought we were being pretentious with the titles, or that it might be an offense to some blowhard chefs; others suggested we use sillier names. in the end, no one really cared after it was implemented.

it's taken a long time for it to become a matter to discuss again.

i the past 5 or 6 years, however, i've been asked culinary questions a few times because the other person thought i was really a certified chef. i had to explain  the reason for the titles, which seemed to disappoint them.

so, does it matter? of course not. i know lots of people who have earned lots of titles (engineers love that stuff), but what truely matters is what they can contribute. not what they write after their name.

so, what say you, heffey? what do you have to add to our collective to earn the respect you may actually deserve.


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## Heffey de Chefey

Evidently, I need to post, post, post my way to a C.M.C.  
 
The ACF's test to be a CMC is a 10 day process (no days off) from 9am to 9 pm and consist of written and practical tests, defending your masterpiece (thesis equivalent) and participating in a number of different market baskets (iron chef type activity).  It is a really hard test and you need to put in around 25k dollars just to take it.  Only about 45% of the people pass, that is why there are so few CMC's around (in 1994, there was only 35 in the US).  THE CEC test is nowhere near as hard but still is a long process with a lot of sacrifice required.  That is deserving of a modicum of respect, don’t you think?


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## babetoo

BreezyCooking said:


> I can't believe there are 5 pages devoted to this already - LOL!!!


 
ditto , what breezy said, really, really, silly


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## GB

Heffey de Chefey said:


> That is deserving of a modicum of respect, don’t you think?


It absolutely deserves respect. I do not think anyone here would argue that it does not. Most here would also likely say that we are showing no disrespect by using the title in the way we have.

By the same token, CMC's are not the only people who deserve a modicum of respect. And to take it a step further, there are those who would feel that making a first post purposely arrogant and indignant is not terribly respectful.


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## buckytom

Heffey de Chefey said:


> . That is deserving of a modicum of respect, don’t you think?


 
maybe i should have put it in foodie terms, so your extensive accomplishments can be worth their 25k.

i hope you'd agree when judging your peers, it's what you bring to the table, not what you _think_ of yourself as a chef that matters. in this case, what's brought to the proverbial table are your posts, be it recipes, or helpful tips and techniques, or just a joke or two. 

it's certainly understandable that you are proud of what you say you've done in your life. but pride goeth before the fall. apparently, it only begins to matter in late summer, so i'm not sure i get that... 

ok, so, you've gotten plenty of attention. now let's see what you've got besides pride in yourself. anything for the rest of us?

eta: actually, what i find just as prideful are the responses that infer that we're wasting our time discussing this. in a way, we're paying the op respect by giving our opinions. why post that it's beneath you to give someone your opinion when asked? *that's* disrespectful.


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## Heffey de Chefey

Heffey de Chefey said:


> I see a lot of folks with Certified Executive Chef and Certified Master Chef after their names and wonder if they are legitimately certified through the American Culinary Federation. If they’re not, isn't that disrespectful of those who worked hard and sacrificed much while earning that distinction?


 
What was disrespectful from my first post?  I didn't start getting arrogant until post #5 after you dismissed my request with a bit of arrogance of your own.
 
I’m sorry this subject is being drug out for 5,6 or more pages but just feel compelled to stand my ground.  It is kinda fun for me actually which I guess is the whole point of this site.


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## buckytom

so all you have to offer is a discussion about you?

how interesting.


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## GB

Heffey de Chefey said:


> What was disrespectful from my first post?  I didn't start getting arrogant until post #5 after you dismissed my request with a bit of arrogance of your own.
> 
> I’m sorry this subject is being drug out for 5,6 or more pages but just feel compelled to stand my ground.  It is kinda fun for me actually which I guess is the whole point of this site.



I am confused as to whom you are referring. You quoted yourself and post #5 that you mentioned is your own post as well.

In any event, it was you who said you admit that when tyou entered with this subject you did so with some arrogance and indignation and meant to. That is what I personally find disrespectful.


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## bigdaddy3k

Heffey de Chefey said:


> I think I actually did win a few friends and I’m glad I did. I don’t know why everyone seems so shocked by a chef acting like a self-righteous a** hole.
> 
> Come on people, I come by it honestly!


 
Ok, you got me there. AND I feel you are trying to be understanding. Lets lighten up this thread folks. Don't make me pull this forum over to the side of the road. You are NOT to big for me to spank.


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## GB

bigdaddy3k said:


> You are NOT to big for me to spank.


A spanking and your new title is the Pope. OK I had really better shut my mouth now


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## bigdaddy3k

Andy M. said:


> I believe his issue was with the word CERTIFIED. Apparently the ACF (American Culinary Federation) certifies chefs. The OP thought they might be upset if they saw the way we were using the titles.
> 
> I received my certification from a different organization, the GPF, the Great Pretenders Foundation. A non-profic organization founded by the Platters. Wanna hear our school song?


 
YES!!!!


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## babetoo

Heffey de Chefey said:


> I would urg you to modify the lables now that you are aware that these two are inappropriate.


 
you have got to be kidding


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## Alix

Well if I wasn't certified before I sure am now! 

I've always been certifiable though!


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## NAchef

Here I thought the content of the forum and the great advice from the members is what made it better?! Next time I will look under my name and then decide if the forum is worth a damn.


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## Andy M.

bigdaddy3k said:


> YES!!!!



Click this!

The Platters – The Great Pretender – Video, listening & stats at Last.fm


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## bigdaddy3k

Wow Andy, that was some url string!!! I get the joke though. Sing it out, I'll do backup.

Ah, I see you discovered a different way.


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## GrillingFool

I am flabbergasted by some of the responses.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

buckytom said:


> maybe i should have put it in foodie terms, so your extensive accomplishments can be worth their 25k.
> 
> i hope you'd agree when judging your peers, it's what you bring to the table, not what you _think_ of yourself as a chef that matters. in this case, what's brought to the proverbial table are your posts, be it recipes, or helpful tips and techniques, or just a joke or two.
> 
> it's certainly understandable that you are proud of what you say you've done in your life. but pride goeth before the fall. apparently, it only begins to matter in late summer, so i'm not sure i get that...
> 
> ok, so, you've gotten plenty of attention. now let's see what you've got besides pride in yourself. anything for the rest of us?
> 
> eta: actually, what i find just as prideful are the responses that infer that we're wasting our time discussing this. in a way, we're paying the op respect by giving our opinions. why post that it's beneath you to give someone your opinion when asked? *that's* disrespectful.



Well Said.

Seeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Janet H

OK - let's move on folks.  I think we can all agree that there is no point in piling on. Various takes on this issue have been offered and restating them will only inflame the situation.  Please be kind to each other - spats in the kitchen can wreck good food and the same can be true here at DC. Thanks for understanding


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