# We're Completely Stumped



## Andy M. (Aug 20, 2016)

We cannot figure out where they're coming from or even what they are. Periodically they show up and it's driving us crazy.

I'm talking about black smudges on the floor.  They appear on the hardwood in the dining area and the ceramic tile in the kitchen and half bath to the left of the fridge. 

They can be tracked around on the bottoms of our feet. They smear easily.  They happen during all seasons, when we have been in and outdoors and when we have not been outdoors.  They wipe up easily with a squirt of windex and a paper towel.  There is no apparent source.  I've checked the swivel mechanism on the two stools and the feet on the stools.  Nothing is dropping from the ceiling - it remains white. 

The floor is cleaned mainly with a Swifter wet mop.

I gotta tell you it's making us crazy.  SO is convinced the house is haunted by someone who wants us to move out so they can have the place. I consider myself to be a fairly intelligent person with a logical mind.  I have no clue.

Any thoughts?


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## dragnlaw (Aug 20, 2016)

Andy could you post a picture of the smudges?

You have checked all the soles of your various shoes and boots right?  
the wheels on your vacuum cleaner?

You say periodically...  every week?  once a month?  ???

If you scrape it with your fingernail - is it like gummy? rubber? tar?

tar - what is the temp outside? are you picking up some in the heat and bringing it in?


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## Caslon (Aug 20, 2016)

If the soles of your running shoes are black, they are rubber and not non-marking. My tile floors need regular cleaning because my Saucony running shoes aren't non-marking. They don't leave black marks tho.


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## Rocklobster (Aug 20, 2016)

Could it be something your feet are picking up from some other surface in the house? A floor mat in some other room, maybe? Dust from the ceiling fan that gets smudged when you walk on it?


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## blissful (Aug 20, 2016)

Caslon said:


> If the soles of your running shoes are black, they are rubber and not non-marking. My tile floors need regular cleaning because my Saucony running shoes aren't non-marking. They don't leave black marks tho.


I worked in an office and they put in new rubber molding, when they put in new carpets. The entry to my cube was very narrow (OSHA OSHA OSHA ALERT..ha ha), just the touch of my black rubber shoes against the cream colored molding, left black marks. It had to be cleaned with some kind of petroleum product. I tried my best to not let the two touch, but, there were scuffs there again.....

Your home could be haunted. Do you have an automated vacuum cleaner and a puppy? Perhaps?


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## Andy M. (Aug 21, 2016)

It happens when we are barefoot and haven't been out. Winter, Summer, Spring, Fall. No running shoes. Happens when we're only wearing socks too.

No likely sources from other parts of the house.


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## blissful (Aug 21, 2016)

Then you have a burglar or a stalker, or a friendly neighbor stopping in. Are your doors secure?


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## Dawgluver (Aug 21, 2016)

Something on your vacuum cleaner/Swiffer?  Like a rubber gasket or bumper?  When I had a cleaning lady, she tended to ram the Swiffer bumper into the trim in the bathroom, and it left black marks.


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## ShellyCooks (Aug 21, 2016)

Wow -- an interesting mystery!! I don't know what kind of floors you have, but do you think it's something seeping up from under the flooring?  I agree with the others -- check your vacuum, swiffer, broom, etc.  Good Luck!  Let us know if you solve the mystery!


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## GotGarlic (Aug 21, 2016)

Did you happen to have the wood floor refinished before this started? I found a site that describes how metal shavings from sanding a wood floor reacted with acids in the wood and corrosive chemicals in the finish to produce a type of black rust. If that's what this is, you and SO might be tracking it onto the tile. 

http://www.hardwoodfloorsmag.com/sa...es-mysterious-black-spots-in-wood-floors.html


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## Andy M. (Aug 21, 2016)

The floor was installed new in 2008.  These are smudges that wipe up easily rather than rust spots as pictured in the link.  These marks are confined to the pictured area and have never appeared in the rest of the hardwood finished floor.

The marks appear when we haven't recently used the swifter or a vacuum.


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## dragnlaw (Aug 21, 2016)

Andy, I know this is really gross but do you have a cat or a dog?

Could they possibly be "dragging their butts" ???  

Sorry, as said, I know it's gross but I discovered my long haired cat, when he gets pieces stuck he drags on the basement floor.  took me a bit to figure it out and dang difficult to scrub off a concrete floor.


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## Addie (Aug 21, 2016)

I was having the same problem. The problem always appeared in the kitchen and bathroom. Both floors have tile. They came in a tore up the carpet in the big room. The only thing we can figure out is that is was the padding from under the carpet. It had totally disintegrated due to age and wear. No more black spots and pieces of it coming through. And now I have a tile floor in the big room also. 

And it is possible your home is haunted. It could be the previous owner doesn't want you living there. Do do do do. Do do do do! The Twilight Zone.


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## Andy M. (Aug 21, 2016)

dragnlaw said:


> Andy, I know this is really gross but do you have a cat or a dog?
> 
> Could they possibly be "dragging their butts" ???
> 
> Sorry, as said, I know it's gross but I discovered my long haired cat, when he gets pieces stuck he drags on the basement floor.  took me a bit to figure it out and dang difficult to scrub off a concrete floor.



With SO's recent health issues, I've been introducing myself as her service animal.  I don't recall dragging my butt across the floor.  We have no cats or dogs.


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## dragnlaw (Aug 21, 2016)

Andy M. said:


> With SO's recent health issues, I've been introducing myself as her service animal.  I don't recall dragging my butt across the floor.



Ah well, not to worry, as a 'dog's body' when you get 'bone'tired' you're allowed to 'drag your ass'.

I'm sure the gremlin will realize he has been discovered and will change his shoes.


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## Dawgluver (Aug 21, 2016)

Another thought:  do/did you have a rubber-backed area rug in that spot?  The one I had in the bathroom had rubber backing that was deteriorating, and left marks on the floor which took some elbow grease to remove.


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## Zagut (Aug 21, 2016)

A pic of the smudges would help in the diagnosis of the problem.

Since it wipes up easily it sounds like a surface contamination issue.

But as my mechanic always says about those intermittent vehicle problems, "If it isn't broke and I can't see what wrong then I can't fix it". 

Until then.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Aug 21, 2016)

Could they be coming from an air conditioning duct?

Ever find any on other than on the floor?

Any odor or aroma?


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## Andy M. (Aug 21, 2016)

Gourmet Greg said:


> Could they be coming from an air conditioning duct?
> 
> Ever find any on other than on the floor?
> 
> Any odor or aroma?



Only on the floor in the areas pictured.  No odor.


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## Souschef (Aug 21, 2016)

Is it possible that it is coming from the swivels on your chairs? I have had the problem. Put a piece of newspaper under each chair and swivel it around a few times.


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## blissful (Aug 21, 2016)

Do you move the garbage box, which appears to have black rubber on the bottom, to different areas?


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## dragnlaw (Aug 21, 2016)

LOL...  this would be REALLY good for a TV show!


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## Andy M. (Aug 21, 2016)

Not the same trash barrel as in the photo but it is rarely moved.  Not the problem.  

I have checked the chair swivel mechanisms and feet. Not the problem.


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## Cooking Goddess (Aug 21, 2016)

My only thought is that it is the bottom of slippers. However, you said this happens when your feet are wearing socks or going naked. Naked FEET, to be clear.  Himself has slippers that mark the floor, but it took us forever to track down the source of the marks. They come right up when rubbed - I usually just buff them out with the sock on my foot.

Is it possible when the marking occurs you don't catch it right away, but you  notice it later? By the time you notice it, you've kicked off your shoes or slippers and are wandering around socked, or not.


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## Andy M. (Aug 21, 2016)

Cooking Goddess said:


> ...Is it possible when the marking occurs you don't catch it right away, but you  notice it later? By the time you notice it, you've kicked off your shoes or slippers and are wandering around socked, or not.



Not possible.  First, we're attuned to be aware as this has been happening. Second, we get up in the morning barefoot and start with coffee and breakfast and, all of a sudden, black marks.  No slippers or other footwear involved.  

As far as it's being footwear related, I've seen the marks footwear can make.  Usually these are streaks that follow the motion of a step.  Our marks are not like that.  They are more spots than streaks.


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## RPCookin (Aug 21, 2016)

Sounds like something growing there, like a mold or something.


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## blissful (Aug 21, 2016)

Have you both had your eyes checked for 'floaters'? (okay never mind was just joking and it's not funny anyways, it could be serious too)


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## rodentraiser (Aug 21, 2016)

Where are Jay and Grant when you need them?


Is it anything from what you might be cooking, like sauce or grease that spatters out of the pan? Are you dripping anything when you carry it across the kitchen? Check all your dishes, you may have a very slight crack in them that allows liquid to seep out when you carry it from the stove or sink (although you'd notice that at the table).

I notice your garbage pail is across the kitchen. Is it something you have cleaned up around your sink or stove and the rag or paper towel is dripping on the way to your garbage pail when you throw it out? 

Although I don't think any of this can account for the spots in the bathroom.

If you think your house really is haunted, you just say firmly that you don't appreciate the marks on the floor that you have to clean up and would whoever is making them, please stop. 

I know that sounds bizarre (especially if you weren't serious), but that's pretty much SOP (I belonged to a ghost hunting group). My supervisor and her husband once bought a house where they could hear footsteps coming down the hall every night and they finally sat up in bed and and said this was their house now and would whoever was making the noise please leave. According to her, the footsteps stopped. So, just sayin'......

What about insects, mice, birds, or even raccoons getting into your house?

And have you thought about just placing a camera to record for a couple hours to see if anything appears?


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## Andy M. (Aug 21, 2016)

That's a pretty comprehensive list of guesses.

Joking about the haunting. Not from dripping foods or other stuff. No cracked plates pots or whatever.  We don't cook or eat greasy black smudgey stuff. No animals live in our home or walk around the kitchen and Dining area while we're having breakfast.


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## Steve Kroll (Aug 21, 2016)

Andy, does it always appear in the same spots? Could it be a mold of some sort?

I had a spot in my old basement that kept coming back time after time. It also cleaned up easily. Turned out to be mold where there was a recurring source of moisture under the floor.


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## rodentraiser (Aug 22, 2016)

Maybe it's something like this:

Mystery Faces of Belmez - The Paranormal Guide



I'm wondering if it's something that reacts to the kitchen light. Is your light fixture fluorescent? Maybe when you come into these areas, it's something on the floor that normally can't be seen, but then when you turn the lights on, it shows up.

Is it possible that when you walk over your floor, that as you compress the tile and flooring, something is seeping out?

Are you sure it isn't something that is dripping from the ceiling, because it might be a minute sized dot of moisture that you can't see, but then when it hits the floor, it might react with the flooring and turn a color you can see.


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## Andy M. (Aug 22, 2016)

Steve Kroll said:


> Andy, does it always appear in the same spots? Could it be a mold of some sort?
> 
> 
> 
> I had a spot in my old basement that kept coming back time after time. It also cleaned up easily. Turned out to be mold where there was a recurring source of moisture under the floor.




The isn't happening in a basement, Steve. It's a bright high traffic area that's heated/air conditioned. It also does not appear in patterns like mold.


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## rodentraiser (Aug 22, 2016)

What about the fan over your stove? Could that be blowing anything out?


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## PrincessFiona60 (Aug 22, 2016)

Dang, you caught me...


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## Addie (Aug 22, 2016)

Andy, as a log time experienced general contractor, I decided to ask Spike regarding your problem and showed him your picture. He said the following:

Eventually, all adhesives break down. If applied too thin, the tiles start popping loose. So it is necessary to apply enough to hold the tiles in place. Then after so many years, it will start to break down anyway. Take note if these black marks appear in the same places all the time. If so, then more than likely those tiles are loose. And the adhesive needs to be replaced.


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## dragnlaw (Aug 22, 2016)

I believe he really does have an invisible visitor.

Andy, didn't you say your floors - both the wood and the kitchen - ere relatively new? 

I can't see where any of us have come close to an answer. Maybe call Mike Holmes!


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## Andy M. (Aug 22, 2016)

Addie said:


> Andy, as a log time experienced general contractor, I decided to ask Spike regarding your problem and showed him your picture. He said the following:
> 
> Eventually, all adhesives break down. If applied too thin, the tiles start popping loose. So it is necessary to apply enough to hold the tiles in place. Then after so many years, it will start to break down anyway. Take note if these black marks appear in the same places all the time. If so, then more than likely those tiles are loose. And the adhesive needs to be replaced.



Addie, the tile floors are 8 years old and solid as the day they were done.


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## CharlieD (Aug 22, 2016)

Caslon said:


> If the soles of your running shoes are black, they are rubber and not non-marking. My tile floors need regular cleaning because my Saucony running shoes aren't non-marking. They don't leave black marks tho.



Not only running shoes. Any shoes including even home slippers.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Aug 22, 2016)

I liked Addie's idea.

Um... poltergeists?


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## Caslon (Aug 23, 2016)

The National Inquirer asks, can we see some pictures?  This might go viral.


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## GA Home Cook (Aug 23, 2016)

Andy I would suggest two things.  One call around to see if there is a local lab.  They may can provide a sample kit for analysis.  Second buy a trail camera and set it up and see if you have a rat giving a present


Sent from my iPhone using Discuss Cooking


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## Aunt Bea (Aug 23, 2016)

Could it be a combination of the residue from the Swiffer cleaning solution buildup combined with dirt that creates a smudge when you skid across the floor, sort of like the smudge you get when you try to remove some adhesives from glass bottles and jars.

I would try giving the floor a good old fashioned mopping with hot water and a glug of sudsy ammonia.

Good luck!


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## Greg Who Cooks (Aug 23, 2016)

Inquiring people want to know! I want to know!

What does it taste like?


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## Andy M. (Aug 23, 2016)

Gourmet Greg said:


> Inquiring people want to know! I want to know!
> 
> What does it taste like?



Next time they appear, I'll collect a sample for you.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Aug 24, 2016)

LOL Andy. Gotta admit you got me back! 

I guess if you wanna know badly enough you could collect a sample and send it off to a lab.

If not I think this discussion has run its course. (Famous last words spoken 37 pages before the end of some random discussion on the Internet.)


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## Caslon (Aug 24, 2016)

This thread might soon deserve a reality show of its own.  The Destination America channel runs paranormal piffle 24/7.


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## Andy M. (Aug 24, 2016)

I'm waiting for a reappearance so I can take some pictures to share.  I've charged my camera battery and I'm poised and ready.

Noting has happened since we started talking about it.  Maybe the trick is to keep talking...


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## Addie (Aug 24, 2016)

Andy M. said:


> I'm waiting for a reappearance so I can take some pictures to share.  I've charged my camera battery and I'm poised and ready.
> 
> Noting has happened since we started talking about it.  Maybe the trick is to keep talking...



Well I hope you find the answer. Nothing like a mysterious happening to peak our interest. 

Well, this is my attempt to 'keep talking.'


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## Alix (Aug 31, 2016)

Perhaps your SO is leaving the marks and waiting to see how long before you catch her? Or how far you will go in investigating the matter? She's not a jokester is she?


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## Andy M. (Aug 31, 2016)

Alix said:


> Perhaps your SO is leaving the marks and waiting to see how long before you catch her? Or how far you will go in investigating the matter? She's not a jokester is she?



Not likely.  She's as flummoxed as I am.  And she's not a jokester.


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## expatgirl (Aug 31, 2016)

Are you or anyone else burning candles in the house?  some of them leave soot and quite a bit depending on the candle..........I don't know if anyone has already posted this as I didn't have time to go through every post..........


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## Andy M. (Aug 31, 2016)

expatgirl said:


> Are you or anyone else burning candles in the house?  some of them leave soot and quite a bit depending on the candle..........I don't know if anyone has already posted this as I didn't have time to go through every post..........




No candles.  I can't stand scented candles so we seldom burn them.


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## expatgirl (Sep 1, 2016)

Well, Andy, we need to call the inspector in..........seriously, hope you find the culprit soon.......and do let us know.....good luck.....


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## Zagut (Sep 25, 2016)

Andy M. said:


> I'm waiting for a reappearance so I can take some pictures to share. I've charged my camera battery and I'm poised and ready.
> 
> Noting has happened since we started talking about it. Maybe the trick is to keep talking...


 
So Casper hasn't returned?
That's a good thing. 
Just figured I keep the talk up in case that really is the trick. 
And don't let the camera batteries die just because he/she hasn't been around lately.


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## Andy M. (Sep 25, 2016)

Zagut said:


> So Casper hasn't returned?
> That's a good thing.
> Just figured I keep the talk up in case that really is the trick.
> And don't let the camera batteries die just because he/she hasn't been around lately.



Funny!  The mystery marks have not returned and I checked my camera battery just last night.  I'm ready.


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## Andy M. (Sep 28, 2016)

Zagat, I do believe you've jinxed me!  Here's a photo of the biggest smudge today.


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## blissful (Sep 28, 2016)

I've been waiting waiting waiting, and THERE THERE IT IS! It looks sinister.


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## medtran49 (Sep 28, 2016)

The seam between the boards to the left of the big mark looks like there is black all along it.  Is that correct in real life?  If so, I'd say you have a problem underneath and it's coming up through the boards.  Has it rained heavily just recently after having not rained for a while, maybe some kind of insect activity?


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## GotGarlic (Sep 28, 2016)

medtran49 said:


> The seam between the boards to the left of the big mark looks like there is black all along it.  Is that correct in real life?  If so, I'd say you have a problem underneath and it's coming up through the boards.  Has it rained heavily just recently after having not rained for a while, maybe some kind of insect activity?



Looks like that to me, too. I would take a piece of masking tape or a sticky note and run it along the seam. See if anything black comes up. There may be a leak under the floor causing mold, or insect activity, like msmofet suggested.


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## Andy M. (Sep 28, 2016)

medtran49 said:


> The seam between the boards to the left of the big mark looks like there is black all along it.  Is that correct in real life?  If so, I'd say you have a problem underneath and it's coming up through the boards.  Has it rained heavily just recently after having not rained for a while, maybe some kind of insect activity?





GotGarlic said:


> Looks like that to me, too. I would take a piece of masking tape or a sticky note and run it along the seam. See if anything black comes up. There may be a leak under the floor causing mold, or insect activity, like msmofet suggested.



That location is coincidental.  These smudges appear in different locations at different times.

The floor is over a full basement with not water sources close by.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Sep 28, 2016)

The big mark appears to be in the middle of the plank.  You should do a dry wipe of the smudges and take it to the county for analysis.  Rule out pathogen.


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## rodentraiser (Sep 28, 2016)

How long in inches is that largest smudge in the kitchen?


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## expatgirl (Sep 28, 2016)

and `i think burning candles has been ruled out.........so `i hope you find out soon..........that would burn me up, too.......


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## Aunt Bea (Sep 28, 2016)

Andy M. said:


> Zagat, I do believe you've jinxed me!  Here's a photo of the biggest smudge today.



Did your grandson pay you a visit?

Could be a scuff from the sole of his shoe.


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## Andy M. (Sep 28, 2016)

Aunt Bea said:


> Did your grandson pay you a visit?
> 
> Could be a scuff from the sole of his shoe.



No, this happened this morning.


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## Andy M. (Sep 28, 2016)

rodentraiser said:


> How long in inches is that largest smudge in the kitchen?



The longest dimension may be around 2".


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## Zagut (Sep 28, 2016)

Andy M. said:


> Zagat, I do believe you've jinxed me!


 
Moi??? 








Seems like talking about it wasn't the trick.




I'll agree with medtran. The seam appears to have the same black. The smudge appears in the middle of the board but your problem could be coming from the seams. I doubt it's coming through the hardwood and finish.

Does it wipe off easily?

What do you wash the floor with?

How often?

Kinda/Sorta looks like mold that the spores could be spread during a damp mop.

Notice how the black is in the crevices of the grain.

If it wipes off it's on the surface on top of the finish.

If it is a mold I can only suggest using a little bleach in your wash water and keeping things as dry as you can for while.

Or perhaps refinishing the floor to help seal up the joints where moisture can penetrate.


Best of luck and keep us informed of what you find out about Casper.


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## Andy M. (Sep 28, 2016)

It wipes off easily with windex. Mold would be a powdery black. This is a greasy black that will smear and can be tracked to other areas.  Besides, it appears suddenly. 

The space between the floorboards looks much worse than it is.


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## expatgirl (Sep 29, 2016)

Well, Andy, hope you resolve/dissolve it soon.......it would surely drive me nuts.............


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## expatgirl (Sep 29, 2016)

oh, btw do you have maids cleaning in your house?  It may be something that they're using


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## expatgirl (Sep 29, 2016)

do you know anyone with a microscope, Andy`.   `i'd do it for you but `i'm  stuck over here in `oman and my scope is stored well away....it would be easy to see if they were spores, or just plain organic or inorganic material............oh, gawd, there's that poor violated violin being assaulted again as well as my ears................anyway,.............if you can't track down the cause,`i would have an analysis done on it just to rule out anything harmful........`i'm sure it's not.........there's probably an easy explanation and none of us Sherlock Holmes can help you out yet.........


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## Andy M. (Sep 29, 2016)

expatgirl said:


> oh, btw do you have maids cleaning in your house?  It may be something that they're using



No maids.


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## Katie H (Sep 29, 2016)

Who installed the floor and how long ago was that done?  The solution may be a simple phone call or visit to talk to them about the dilemma.


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## bethzaring (Sep 29, 2016)

Andy M. said:


> Zagat, I do believe you've jinxed me!  Here's a photo of the biggest smudge today.



Andy, this is just bizarre.  Glad you were able to post a photo.  It doesn't look like moisture or anything coming from the seams in the floor.  How does it make you feel having this phenomenon in your house?  Are you always looking around when you first come into the kitchen every morning.  Do you have any theories right now?  BTW, nice oak flooring.


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## Andy M. (Sep 29, 2016)

Thanks  Beth. No theories. I have no clue.


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## Zagut (Sep 29, 2016)

Andy M. said:


> It wipes off easily with windex. Mold would be a powdery black. This is a greasy black that will smear and can be tracked to other areas. Besides, it appears suddenly.
> 
> The space between the floorboards looks much worse than it is.


 
Well Mr. Watson we're moving forward. 

Mold would not necessary be powdery.

Is it actually greasy or just moist?

How long after floor cleaning does it appear?

It wipes off so it's on top of the finish.

It's not percolating through the wood so it's something placed on top.

Does it wipe off with simple water or is a solvent like windex needed?

Don't underestimate the size of the seam between your floorboards. It's gigantic to some of the things that live it this world.

And that it appears suddenly is no reason to discount some microbe.

We've got some weird orange mold at work that appears instantly when the plywood gets wet. 
I think it's the glue. 

For some reason I have in my head that you damp mop the area. 
Some mysterious spores are spread in the process and where droplets of moisture are left the spooky black things grow.

They could be culled from those seams that appear insignificant. 


I may be totally off base and I wish you well with Casper.

Keep us informed with what you find out.


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## CharlieD (Sep 29, 2016)

Andy M. said:


> The longest dimension may be around 2".




You mean it was not there when you went to bed and was there when you woke up?


Sent from my iPhone using Discuss Cooking


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## rodentraiser (Sep 29, 2016)

It's interesting, looking like it was smeared on going from either left to right to the opposite direction.


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## Andy M. (Sep 29, 2016)

SO found some on the bottom of her foot.  She tracked it to other parts of the kitchen and dining room.  Not sure which came first. Did she pick it up somewhere else and track it in or was it there and she picked it up and spread it.  Once again we retraced her steps to see where she might have picked it up.  No dice.


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## roadfix (Sep 29, 2016)

Ok, I'll give it a guess.......chimney soot?


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## Caslon (Sep 29, 2016)

Who ya gonna call?  

Ghostbusters!!!


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## Cooking Goddess (Apr 14, 2017)

Andy, it's been months since we've heard anything. I thought of your conundrum while cleaning  marks off of our kitchen floor. I know where ours come from - Himself's black-bottomed bedroom slippers.  However, have you or your SO figured out where your black marks came from? Are they still happening? Update, please.


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## Andy M. (Apr 14, 2017)

Cooking Goddess said:


> Andy, it's been months since we've heard anything. I thought of your conundrum while cleaning  marks off of our kitchen floor. I know where ours come from - Himself's black-bottomed bedroom slippers.  However, have you or your SO figured out where your black marks came from? Are they still happening? Update, please.



Thanks for asking, CG. We haven't had an occurrence sine the last one reported here.


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## Cooking Goddess (Apr 14, 2017)

Maybe all of our talk scared the perps away!


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## roadfix (Apr 14, 2017)

Whatever entity that was causing this has probably moved on to another home....


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## Katie H (Apr 14, 2017)

Andy M. said:


> Thanks for asking, CG. We haven't had an occurrence sine the last one reported here.



The only explainable thing is that you were visited by some playful gremlins who left after you weren't fun anymore.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Apr 15, 2017)

Poltergeists!


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