# How do you make the perfect bread?



## geoff.d`arcy (Nov 2, 2006)

hi there.
i like to make bread but sometimes it comes out heavy dos anybody have any suggestions on how to make it lighter

look forward to hearing from you


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## kadesma (Nov 2, 2006)

_Geoff,_
_you might put up your recipe  so others can take a look at it. I'm sure someone will come along with an answer  for you, or at least an idea or two to try._

_kadesma_


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## geoff.d`arcy (Nov 2, 2006)

hi anybody there


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## skilletlicker (Nov 2, 2006)

Maybe more experienced bakers will do better but the question is too broad for me to get my arms around.  Could you post a little more detail?  Perhaps even a recipe?


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## skilletlicker (Nov 2, 2006)

geoff.d`arcy said:
			
		

> hi anybody there


 There was three minutes between your first post and the one quoted here.  Calm down buddy.


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## geoff.d`arcy (Nov 2, 2006)

kadesma said:
			
		

> _Geoff,_
> _you might put up your recipe so others can take a look at it. I'm sure someone will come along with an answer for you, or at least an idea or two to try._
> 
> _kadesma_


 

500gms white flour
15grms fresh yeast
2tps suger
1tps salt
1oz butter
2tps olive oil


cook for 40mins 

hope this will help?


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## bullseye (Nov 2, 2006)

A while ago VeraBlue reccomended the book _The Bread Baker's Apprentice_, by Peter Reinhart.  I have found it quite useful and comprehensive regarding theory and technique and it is full of great recipes.  Might be worth a look.  FWIW.


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## Constance (Nov 2, 2006)

Geoff, I wish I could help you. I've been cooking for 50 years, and went through several bread-making phases in my life. I made great biscuits, and pretty good yeast rolls, but I never could bake a decent loaf of bread. My husband told me I baked the best 5 pound loaf of bread he ever ate. 
I finally got a bread machine. Everyone can make bread in a machine, right? All you do is pour in the mix and turn it on. 
Not me...my bread was always heavy and soggy. Finally, the blasted thing blew it's circuits. The company replaced it, I gave it to my daughter, and resigned myself to buying our fresh bread at the grocery store bakery. 

I will pass on one hint given me by an older friend who made wonderful bread. She said that you must knead the dough until it is as smooth as a baby's bottom.


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## Shunka (Nov 2, 2006)

MY FAMILY'S FAVORITE BREAD RECIPE
2 pks. yeast
3/4 c. warm water, 110-115o
2 c. scalded, then cooled to lukewarm milk, whole is best (I do not heat til scalded and I like to use the milk at just about the same temp as the water)
3 tbs. sugar or honey
3 tbs. vegetable oil or melted vegetable shortening
1 tbs. salt
4 c. all purpose flour
up to 3 more c. all purpose flour
Dissolve the dry yeast into the warm water and stir. Let foam up, about 5 minutes. Add the warm milk, sugar and oil, stir to dissolve the sugar. Add the salt, stir. Add the first 4 c. of flour and mix well. Stir in the next 2 c. of flour and add just enough to make a smooth as a baby's bottom dough (not sticky). Grease a big bowl, put dough into it and twist and turn to put greased side up. Cover and let rise in a warm, draft-free spot for 1 hour or until doubled. Turn out onto counter and knead out the air bubbles. Divide into two equal pieces. Roll into a 12 inch log; with a rolling-pin flatten out to get air out. Starting at one short end start rolling tightly; pinch the seam to seal and tuck edges under the loaf. Put into a greased 9 inch loaf pan. Repeat for other loaf. Brush melted butter over the tops and let rise for another hour or til doubled. Bake in a preheated oven at 425ofor 25-30 minutes or until it sounds hollow when thumped. * You can use up to 3 c. whole wheat flour in substitution of an equal amount of all purpose flour. The loaves may not rise as much (use less flour when kneading the dough) and it will be a heavier loaf. Otherwise my loaves always came out very high and good. If you are in a high humidity or cold place that will stunt it also. I baked 20-30 loaves of this every week for 20 years with no complaints, just more orders.


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## Chef_Jimmy (Nov 2, 2006)

skilletlicker said:
			
		

> There was three minutes between your first post and the one quoted here. Calm down buddy.


 
Yea really


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## BrianMorin (Nov 2, 2006)

*Making Bread*

This is my story about 
Making Bread at Home   ​
Making a good loaf of bread depends a lot on the technique you might be using… Bread machine? (there is a lot of control in this technique, leaving less room for error, if you can follow instructions!) Mixer? or by Hand?

1.	Bread Machine:

If you have a bread machine with the proper instruction booklet, etc., use it and it should be kind to you. If you want to do something a little bit different however, you may have to know a little bit more about the chemistry. This may take a year or so of experimenting and/or asking specific questions, as someone on the site who makes dill bread with cottage cheese, in his breadmachine and now makes Whole Wheat bread in his breadmachine. 

2.	Mixer:

Probably the next easiest way to make bread, you just have to have your quantities right. Once you know how much water the flour you are going to use is going to absorb. The temperature in your kitchen and anywhere else you are going to put the dough, is at least stable, your home free.  A white bread recipe could be:

3 to 3½ cups 	bread flour
1 ½ cups 	Liquid (could be water or milk or butter milk, you just have 	to know that if you use milk, butter or other dairy products 	 your baking time should be 	lower)
1½ teaspoons	yeast. (temperature and speed are factors here. You want a nice bread that doesn’t taste of yeast, long rising and moderate temperatures are the way. Your in a hurry, put more yeast and pump up the rising temp to 80° or 90° F – not more as you will get frankenbread.)
1 teaspoon	Salt

This is your basic French and/or Italian or if you will paysan – pesant – recipe. This is what a top notch French or Italian baker might use for a baguette or miche. 

This is how I do it… All the dry ingredients (Flour and salt) in the mixer, except the yeast.  I take the temperature of the ingredients so I can control the process, but for your needs, try to get warm water, either from you tap or warm it up a bit on the stove. Not hot, just warm. Baby formula warm. 

Turn on the mixer (low to medium, I would say? I have never used anything but a commercial mixer for making bread, twenty or so at a time.) and start adding the water, in a steady, not too fast, not too slow, stream, until most of it is used. Let it mix for a while and see what is feels like in a minute or two. If it is moist and coming together let it be. If it really looks and feels dry and is not coming together, put in the rest of the water, in the same way. If it still looks dry, (give it another 1 or two minutes), add more water. 

Let this stand for twenty minutes. Now turn on the machine again and add the yeast. If you don’t like this technique, add the yeast at the beginning also and continue from there. 

Let it mix for 5 to 7 minutes, of until it is nice and silky, like a babies bum. Or you can take it out before this and kneed it by hand until it becomes silky.
Let this rise for as long as it takes to arrive at double the volume (I the oven it should take about 1 hour, out of the oven it could take up to 2 – 2½ hours, depending on the temperature of your home. If your home is in the 70° area, it might take only 1 hour and ½). I always put it in a bowl, and then put it in an oven that had been turned on, then turned off once the elements got red, and the light turned on. If you own a gas stove with a pilot, just use it as is, no pre-heating needed. Make sure the bowl is covered with a damp cloth, not wet, but well wrong out, damp cloth. Once it has doubled in volume, take it out of the bowl and get the air out of it. I know most people say punch it down, but I don’t punch it down, I roll it between my hands, on a board, until all the air bubbles are more evenly distributed. This process also re-stimulates the yeast. 

Now Place it back in the bowl and if you used the oven, back in the oven. Again until doubled in size. If the ambient temperature hasn’t changed, this should be about half the original time. 

Now If you are using the oven method to proof your bread you will have to time this next part a bit. Once the dough has risen to double (or close to) it’s volume when you put it in the second time, you take it our of the bowl and redistribute the air bubbles again. If you are going to form your bread into a loaf, put it aside and cover it. Go get your bread pans and grease them, I use ½ liquid lecithin and ½ extra virgin olive oil, a very thin coat. Use what ever you feel is best. After you bread has rested for ten minutes, not more please, if you do you will see why, form it into a loaf by first gently flattening it, into a flat rectangle shape. Now fold in the two sides about ¼ to ½ and inch. Now roll into a cylinder closing the seem at the bottom as well as you can. It gets easier with time. Put it the pan and let rise till double in size, usually half the time of the step before. You can use the oven if you want but you do have to take the bread out of the oven early enough to let the oven warm up and so your bread doesn’t over proof. This last process usually take about ½ an hour. Your oven should be at about 450° F. 

Put in you dough when everything is ready and through in a cup of so of water, on the bottom, or just put a pan of water on the bottom shelf. Your bread should be around the middle of the oven, by the way. Let that baby cook for ten minutes, then turn down the temperature to 350° F. Let it cook for another 45 to 50 minutes or until it has a hollow, thud, sound when you rap it with your knuckles or a wooden spoon on the bottom. Yes is should come out of the that easily at this point, if it doesn’t, I don’t know what to say, except, your cooked. 

3.	By Hand:

The recipe would be  the same by hand. The process of  mix everything by hand and kneed by hand can be tough work if your not ready for it. It should be kneaded for about 20 minutes. You can do it in a bowl or on the counter, either way you put in your dry ingredients, yeast included, and you make a whole in the middle of the flour, then you pour in your liquid ingredients and send the flour, bit by bit into the center with MOST of the liquid, reserve a bit in case, it shouldn’t be long before you know if you need more. Once all the liquid is incorporated then you can start kneading. It can be a bit sticky at this point, but it should be wet, not white flour at any rate. If it is really too wet add more flour, if it is really too dry – breaks up or doesn’t come together – add the rest of the liquid, or more liquid. Now follow the instructions for the mixer.


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## BrianMorin (Nov 2, 2006)

*Kudos!*

Shunka, looks like a great recipe... kudos!


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## Shunka (Nov 2, 2006)

Brian, it is; thank you!! Like I posted in it, I have used that recipe for almost 35 years now and it has never failed me unless I failed it, know what I mean. I do all the mixing and kneading by hand as that has always gotten the best results. Even though it is harder now with arthritis, I still do it by hand.


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## geoff.d`arcy (Nov 4, 2006)

*thank you*


dear constance
thankyou for your advise i took speacial intrest in making sure the dough was like i babys bum? I have made a loaf today and it came out of the oven just right.



regards

geoff d`arcy


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## nancyclair (Nov 16, 2006)

I know just what you're talking about!  My husband learned from his Dr. that high fructose corn syrup is very bad for people with high cholestrol (sp!) and he should steer away from it, but to find commercial bread without it in a small, rural area is almost impossible.  So I thought, how hard can bread baking be?  !!!  I've been at it six months now, with various recipes including sourdough and still my loaves are door-stoppers everytime.  I think it may be in the kneading - it always says 'until smooth' or "until no longer sticky" or other such fuzzy nonsense.  It never gets not sticky unless I put way lot more flour on the board which I've heard contributes to the heaviness....

I'll try the recipe from Shunka above today... although whether or not it will be smooth as a 'baby's bottom' and 'not sticky' remains to be seen.


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## DinaFine (Nov 26, 2006)

nancyclair said:
			
		

> I know just what you're talking about! My husband learned from his Dr. that high fructose corn syrup is very bad for people with high cholestrol (sp!) and he should steer away from it, but to find commercial bread without it in a small, rural area is almost impossible. So I thought, how hard can bread baking be? !!! I've been at it six months now, with various recipes including sourdough and still my loaves are door-stoppers everytime. I think it may be in the kneading - it always says 'until smooth' or "until no longer sticky" or other such fuzzy nonsense. It never gets not sticky unless I put way lot more flour on the board which I've heard contributes to the heaviness....
> 
> I'll try the recipe from Shunka above today... although whether or not it will be smooth as a 'baby's bottom' and 'not sticky' remains to be seen.
> 
> [these recipes can be confusing and presuppose that you already know something about how the dough should feel. I knead for 10 minutes. I use just enough flour to keep the bread from sticking to the board and no more. The dough will not be totally non sticky, but will be slightly tacky.The dough ball will feel a bit springy, and will be smooth if you dust it lightly with flour, but will still get sticky if you knead all the flour on the board away. I make sourdough and have been able to make bread that is tasty and not too dense, although whole grains will always be denser than white flour and sourdough will always be denser than bakers yeast raised.  hope this helps.  I have posted a recipe on a sourdough thread. If you look at the recipe, you can tell me what you think.]


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