# Pizza dough problem.



## callmaker60 (Jan 16, 2014)

I have tried many different recipe's for pizza dough, each time i make it, when the final step comes to rolling/stretching it out, it continues to go back into it self, I let it rest, knead it.  I can get it stretched out to 12", but it pulls itself back less than that by the time i am ready to put it into the oven. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## Andy M. (Jan 16, 2014)

callmaker60 said:


> I have tried many different recipe's for pizza dough, each time i make it, when the final step comes to rolling/stretching it out, it continues to go back into it self, I let it rest, knead it.  I can get it stretched out to 12", but it pulls itself back less than that by the time i am ready to put it into the oven. Any help would be greatly appreciated.




All I can suggest is that you have to give the dough time for the proteins to relax.  

Is this what you do?  After mixing/kneading the dough, let it double in size.  Then punch it down, portion it and roll it into a ball and let it rest/rise again.  If it shrinks when you try to make the crust, just let it rest more.

If you do something different, pleas elaborate.


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## callmaker60 (Jan 16, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> All I can suggest is that you have to give the dough time for the proteins to relax.
> 
> Is this what you do?  After mixing/kneading the dough, let it double in size.  Then punch it down, portion it and roll it into a ball and let it rest/rise again.  If it shrinks when you try to make the crust, just let it rest more.
> 
> If you do something different, pleas elaborate.



I make it, let it rise, punch it down, and let raise again, I am not kneading it after rising, just forming after the 2nd rise, and making the pizza, even after i make the pizza, the thickness doubles, which i don't want, i want a thin crust, so i guess i need to knead it more, which i will try next time.


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## Andy M. (Jan 16, 2014)

callmaker60 said:


> I make it, let it rise, punch it down, and let raise again, I am not kneading it after rising, just forming after the 2nd rise, and making the pizza, even after i make the pizza, the thickness doubles, which i don't want, i want a thin crust, so i guess i need to knead it more, which i will try next time.



Resting will help with the shrinking.  It will not prevent the crust from rising in the oven.  If you want a thinner end result, stretch the dough thinner before you top it.


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## salt and pepper (Jan 17, 2014)

A few things that will have an effect on the problem your having may be:

1- the flour... use high protein flour with a higher gluten is best.
2- the temp... cold dough will not strech. Dough should be at about 72- 80 degrees. 
3- don't put warm water in a cold bowl, I always run the bottom of a bowl under hot water before adding water and yeast.
4- adding oil to dough will toughten it.
5- I knead the dough for 30 minutes in a KA stand mixer. Let rise for 2-4 hours then rise again for 2 hours.
6- flip it on to a floured board press down with your finger tips and roll it out.


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## Aunt Bea (Jan 17, 2014)

Try to use as little flour as possible when making your dough, I find a slightly sticky dough is easier to get into the pan.

I don't punch my dough down after it has risen.  I dump it onto the pizza pan and spread it out with my oiled hands, it usually does not spring back.

I have also found that dough I have made three days ahead and stored in the refrigerator to ripen never snaps back.

Keep at it until you find the best technique for your situation!


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## sparrowgrass (Jan 17, 2014)

If you want a thin and crispy crust, pat and stretch your dough out to size, as folks said above, let it sit for 10 minutes or so, then use your rolling pin to flatten out the dough even more.  Top and bake immediately.


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## Addie (Jan 18, 2014)

callmaker60 said:


> I make it, let it rise, punch it down, and let raise again, I am not kneading it after rising, just forming after the 2nd rise, and making the pizza, even after i make the pizza, the thickness doubles, which i don't want, i want a thin crust, so i guess i need to knead it more, which i will try next time.



To control the thickness of your crust, once you have it shaped and ready to put the ingredients on it, dock the dough first. Take two forks and prick the dough all over. It will keep it from rising again in the oven.


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## callmaker60 (Jan 19, 2014)

Well folks I made my pizza dough yesterday from a recipe off youtube, and i am not happy with it.  the edge was hard and did not brown, even after cooking on a stone at high heat.
Any one have a good pizza dough recipe they want to share?


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## Andy M. (Jan 19, 2014)

callmaker60 said:


> Well folks I made my pizza dough yesterday from a recipe off youtube, and i am not happy with it.  the edge was hard and did not brown, even after cooking on a stone at high heat.
> Any one have a good pizza dough recipe they want to share?




What temperature are you cooking at?  How long do you preheat the oven?  Where in the oven is the stone?


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## Aunt Bea (Jan 19, 2014)

callmaker60 said:


> Well folks I made my pizza dough yesterday from a recipe off youtube, and i am not happy with it.  the edge was hard and did not brown, even after cooking on a stone at high heat.
> Any one have a good pizza dough recipe they want to share?



If you only want one you've come to the wrong place! 

I take a cup of water and microwave it to 110 degrees F,  add a packet of dry yeast along with a teaspoon of white sugar and a tablespoon of oil or butter.  When the yeast foams I stir in a cup and a half of flour, dump it onto a board.  I work in another cup to cup and a half of flour and a teaspoon of salt while kneading for approx. 6 to 8 minutes.  I place the dough in a greased bowl and cover with a dish towel.  When it has doubled in bulk I spread it in the pizza pan and top it or I put it into a plastic bag and put it in the refrigerator for up to three days.  This is enough dough for a 10X15 sheet or two rounds.   I prefer to use dough that has ripened in the refrigerator and it also makes the job of making a pizza much easier because most of the work can is done ahead of time.  The amount of flour is a big variable, you need to learn to work by feel and by eye to determine the right amount.  Have fun!


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## CraigC (Jan 19, 2014)

Does anyone make extra dough or make a recipe of dough specifically for garlic rolls?


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## Andy M. (Jan 19, 2014)

CraigC said:


> Does anyone make extra dough or make a recipe of dough specifically for garlic rolls?



I make a batch of dough for two pizzas and freeze one.  I've never made garlic rolls with extra dough.


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## CraigC (Jan 19, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> I make a batch of dough for two pizzas and freeze one.  I've never made garlic rolls with extra dough.



Once I discovered that most pizza/Italian-American restaurants use pizza dough to make garlic rolls, I started doing the same.


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## Andy M. (Jan 19, 2014)

CraigC said:


> Once I discovered that most pizza/Italian-American restaurants use pizza dough to make garlic rolls, I started doing the same.



Just add garlic powder, minced garlic?


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## callmaker60 (Jan 19, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> What temperature are you cooking at?  How long do you preheat the oven?  Where in the oven is the stone?



Around 400 i have a old gas stove, no temp settings on it, so i guesstimate
oven is reheatetd, stone on bottom rack.

The dough just isn't like i get at a pizza shop.


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## CraigC (Jan 19, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> Just add garlic powder, minced garlic?



Fresh garlic, grated on a micro plane, then steeped in olive oil. I like to add fresh, finely chopped parsley. Pour this over as soon as the rolls come out of the oven and add a generous amount of finely grated parmesan on top.


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## Andy M. (Jan 19, 2014)

callmaker60 said:


> Around 400 i have a old gas stove, no temp settings on it, so i guesstimate
> oven is reheatetd, stone on bottom rack.
> 
> The dough just isn't like i get at a pizza shop.




Try this.  Put the stone on a shelf about 6"-9" below the top of the oven.  Pizza ovens have low ceilings to reflect the heat back onto the top of the pizza.  This will approximate that.  You will get a browner crust and some color on the cheese and toppings.

Preheat the oven to a higher temp if you can, around 500ºF, and let it preheat for a while.  It takes a longer time for the stone to reach temperature.


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## Andy M. (Jan 19, 2014)

CraigC said:


> Fresh garlic, grated on a micro plane, then steeped in olive oil. I like to add fresh, finely chopped parsley. Pour this over as soon as the rolls come out of the oven and add a generous amount of finely grated parmesan on top.



Interesting.  So no garlic in the dough?  When I make onion bagels, I add onion powder and toasted onion flakes to the dough.  The flavor permeates the entire bagel and the onion doesn't burn when you toast the bagel.


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## Aunt Bea (Jan 19, 2014)

callmaker60 said:


> Around 400 i have a old gas stove, no temp settings on it, so i guesstimate
> oven is reheatetd, stone on bottom rack.
> 
> The dough just isn't like i get at a pizza shop.



It may be the flour you use, the age of the dough, the temp of a commercial oven, the use of flavor enhancers by the pizza shop.  Next time you stop in at your favorite pizza shop for a slice be up front and ask them what makes the dough they use special, most will be happy to talk to you.  You may not be able to duplicate it at home, but it will help you understand why yours is different.


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## CraigC (Jan 19, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> Interesting.  So no garlic in the dough?  When I make onion bagels, I add onion powder and toasted onion flakes to the dough.  The flavor permeates the entire bagel and the onion doesn't burn when you toast the bagel.



As you pull the rolls apart, the infused oil mixture gets soak up in the rolls.


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## medtran49 (Jan 19, 2014)

We always prebake our thin crusts as they seem to be crisper that way.  Not cooked thru all the way, just partially cooked.  Don't seriously load them up with toppings either that take a long time to cook or melt in case of cheese.  

To get a thin crust, I let the dough rise twice, just a plain old pizza dough and I do use just a touch of olive oil in my dough.  After the second rise, I make my dough balls and let them sit for a bit, usually around 15 minutes or so.  Then I flatten out with fingers, then use a heavy marble rolling pin to flatten out more, then start stretching by hand starting with dough over my fist and pulling/stretching.  I'll also let gravity help by holding up dough in a couple of places and stretching it out working around.  At the end, I usually use the marble rolling pin again to get a relatively flat even surface.  I get REALLY thin dough, it just takes some time and effort but it's worth it cause that's how we like it. 

I also don't usually do much bigger than 12" or so pizzas, especially with that thin of a dough because it will tear easily. 

Also, you can't let the dough sit after you've shaped it.  It will continue to rise.  

We usually do ours on the grill or in the big green egg over hardwood.  Sometimes we use a stone, sometimes not, no rhyme or reason why just whatever gets done.  As Andy noted though, you will need to let a stone heat.  Most books usually say about 1/2 hour at temp.


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## medtran49 (Jan 19, 2014)

The dough here is a little thicker than what I'd normally do but the toppings are a little heavy too. This is a crawfish pizza.


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## moiki85 (Jan 20, 2014)

callmaker60 are you sure that you use the exactly quantity of ingredient?

I use to rise my pizza 24 hours at least (sometimes 48 hours) and cook it about 20-30 minutes at 240 degrees.


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## callmaker60 (Jan 20, 2014)

moiki85 said:


> callmaker60 are you sure that you use the exactly quantity of ingredient?
> 
> I use to rise my pizza 24 hours at least (sometimes 48 hours) and cook it about 20-30 minutes at 240 degrees.



yep, i measure everything exact.


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## taxlady (Jan 20, 2014)

moiki85 said:


> callmaker60 are you sure that you use the exactly quantity of ingredient?
> 
> I use to rise my pizza 24 hours at least (sometimes 48 hours) and cook it about 20-30 minutes at 240 degrees.


That's 240 degrees Celsius, right?


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## Aunt Bea (Jan 20, 2014)

callmaker60 said:


> yep, i measure everything exact.



Be careful about measuring, when making bread, it is not always a good thing.  

The volume of flour is highly variable.  I always hold back at least the last cup of flour called for in a recipe for yeast dough and only add what the dough wants or needs to make a nice smooth pliable slightly sticky dough.  When it comes to baking a scale is much better, for measuring flour, than a measuring cup.  If you don't have a scale at least fluff or sift your flour before scooping and measuring.

Keep trying, it is worth the effort!


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## callmaker60 (Jan 20, 2014)

Well folks, i made dough last night.
Let it rise one time, then cut it in half and wrapped in plastic wrap, put into fridge overnight, took it out a little while ago, kneaded it a while, rolled it out, docked the dough put on a metal pizza pan, topping, and baked at 400 for around 12 minutes, and it came out great.
Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.


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## Aunt Bea (Jan 20, 2014)

callmaker60 said:


> Well folks, i made dough last night.
> Let it rise one time, then cut it in half and wrapped in plastic wrap, put into fridge overnight, took it out a little while ago, kneaded it a while, rolled it out, docked the dough put on a metal pizza pan, topping, and baked at 400 for around 12 minutes, and it came out great.
> Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.



Nothing tastes better than success, congratulations!


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## Roll_Bones (Jan 20, 2014)

salt and pepper said:


> A few things that will have an effect on the problem your having may be:
> 
> 1- the flour... use high protein flour with a higher gluten is best.
> 2- the temp... cold dough will not strech. Dough should be at about 72- 80 degrees.
> ...



Thats quite a long time to knead isn't it?  Any home mixer but a KA would be destroyed!  
I also agree with dough temperature.  If the dough is room temp and not cold, it is very easy to stretch out.
I learned the hard way by trying to roll out cold dough. It does not work.



callmaker60 said:


> Around 400 i have a old gas stove, no temp settings on it, so i guesstimate
> oven is reheatetd, stone on bottom rack.
> 
> The dough just isn't like i get at a pizza shop.



It never will be like the pizza shop unless you borrow their pizza oven.



CraigC said:


> As you pull the rolls apart, the infused oil mixture gets soak up in the rolls.



Sounds like Mario The Baker garlic rolls. We had a restaurant in N. Miami called Mary's many years ago.  They had the very best garlic sticks ever made.  Same principle. Heavy garlic infused oil, salt and a hint of parsley.
You did say you were from Davie right? 



callmaker60 said:


> Well folks, i made dough last night.
> Let it rise one time, then cut it in half and wrapped in plastic wrap, put into fridge overnight, took it out a little while ago, kneaded it a while, rolled it out, docked the dough put on a metal pizza pan, topping, and baked at 400 for around 12 minutes, and it came out great.
> Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.



Was the crust as good as the pizza shop?


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## CraigC (Jan 21, 2014)

Roll_Bones said:


> Sounds like Mario The Baker garlic rolls. We had a restaurant in N. Miami called Mary's many years ago.  They had the very best garlic sticks ever made.  Same principle. Heavy garlic infused oil, salt and a hint of parsley.
> You did say you were from Davie right?



I've had Mary's (on 7th ave) garlic sticks. Place is long gone. I'm from Hialeah, but I now live in the Pines. Davie is north and east of me.


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## Roll_Bones (Jan 21, 2014)

CraigC said:


> I've had Mary's (on 7th ave) garlic sticks. Place is long gone. I'm from Hialeah, but I now live in the Pines. Davie is north and east of me.



Yes Craig. I grew up in N. Miami and ate there (Mary's) regularly as a kid. 
I know its been gone even before I left S. Florida.
I also lived in Davie for a few years. NW 78 ave just a block south of Stirling road.
My ex wife lives in Pembroke Pines.

I worked for Seaboard Coast Line RR in Hialeah from 1972 - 1980.

I was born and raised in Miami and have lived all over south Florida.  Dade and Broward counties.


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