# Propane grill losing gas



## taxlady

I have a MasterCraft propane grill. It seems to have a leak. The propane is getting used up far too fast. This is the second tank where this is happening. I was thinking I should get some soapy water and try to find a leak. Any suggestions of how to do this? Do I spritz the soapy water on hoses, connectors, etc.? Do I did a sponge in the soapy water and somehow get it onto the hose, etc.? I remember seeing a plumber do this to check a connection on a stove, but I don't remember what he did to get the water onto the connection.


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## CraigC

Usually if the grill has a leak internally, I would imagine it would catch fire. I would suspect a seal is leaking around the tank or possibly the connecting hose is faulty. I use propane for the crawfish cooker and once noticed that the tank valve was cracked (I exchange tanks instead of getting them refilled) and leaked when the valve was open. So it might not be the grill at all. Do you get your tank(s) refilled or do you exchange them? I think exchanged tanks are more likely to suffer abuse.


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## GA Home Cook

I would use a sponge around the connections from the tank.  Without the grill burning open the valve and douse with the soapy water, use lots of soap in the water.  Start with the connection at the tank and work up to where it connects to the burner stem.  If nothing there, take the grates out of the grill so you can see the burners exposed and light the grill.  you may have a burned out hole in the line to the burner or the burner it's self.


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## Roll_Bones

If its leaking from the grill itself, then turn off the gas when finished.
If its the tank, have it checked. 
Pressure tested.
Or just buy a new one or exchange the leaking one.  Blue Rhino and others test the tanks before they are available for sale or rent.


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## roadfix

As mentioned, it could be leaking at the grill.   It's good practice to shut the valve at the tank after each use.   I do it every time, regardless.


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## Caslon

What model MasterCraft?  A Google search of that brand BBQ yielded zero results.     Use a BIC long stem lighter and don't burn yourself up.


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## caseydog

1.You should ALWAYS shut the gas off at the tank when not in use. Period. 

2. If their is a leak, you should smell a pretty pungent odor around and/or under the grill -- propane (LP Gas) is heavier than air, it may not make it up to your nose level. 

If you are not using a gas tank exchange, use one next time, and rule a leaking bottle out of the possibilities. 

CD


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## taxlady

Caslon said:


> What model MasterCraft?  A Google search of that brand BBQ yielded zero results.     Use a BIC long stem lighter and don't burn yourself up.


I was mistaken, it's MasterChef. I think that's the store brand from Canadian Tire.


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## taxlady

Thanks for all the replies.



CraigC said:


> Usually if the grill has a leak internally, I would imagine it would catch fire. I would suspect a seal is leaking around the tank or possibly the connecting hose is faulty. I use propane for the crawfish cooker and once noticed that the tank valve was cracked (I exchange tanks instead of getting them refilled) and leaked when the valve was open. So it might not be the grill at all. Do you get your tank(s) refilled or do you exchange them? I think exchanged tanks are more likely to suffer abuse.



First time was a refill on a fairly new tank. This time it's an exchanged tank. I wonder if it is leaking while the valve is open.



GA Home Cook said:


> I would use a sponge around the connections from the tank.  Without the grill burning open the valve and douse with the soapy water, use lots of soap in the water.  Start with the connection at the tank and work up to where it connects to the burner stem.  If nothing there, take the grates out of the grill so you can see the burners exposed and light the grill.  you may have a burned out hole in the line to the burner or the burner it's self.



I'll try with a sponge. Then, if nothing I will have a look under the grates. Thanks.



caseydog said:


> 1.You should ALWAYS shut the gas off at the tank when not in use. Period.
> 
> 2. If their is a leak, you should smell a pretty pungent odor around and/or under the grill -- propane (LP Gas) is heavier than air, it may not make it up to your nose level.
> 
> If you are not using a gas tank exchange, use one next time, and rule a leaking bottle out of the possibilities.
> 
> CD


Yup, we always shut off the the gas at the tank. Burners first, then the tank. Always.

The first time it happened we thought it was because we had bought a gauge so we would know how much was left in the tank. Second time we didn't put the gauge and instead of getting the tank refilled, we got an exchange.

If we don't have the storms promised for tomorrow, we will be checking with soapy water tomorrow.


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## Caslon

taxlady said:


> I have a MasterCraft propane grill. It seems to have a leak. The propane is getting used up far too fast. This is the second tank where this is happening. I was thinking I should get some soapy water and try to find a leak. Any suggestions of how to do this? Do I spritz the soapy water on hoses, connectors, etc.? Do I did a sponge in the soapy water and somehow get it onto the hose, etc.? I remember seeing a plumber do this to check a connection on a stove, but I don't remember what he did to get the water onto the connection.



It's not uncommon the intake valve needing replacing.


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## RPCookin

taxlady said:


> Thanks for all the replies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, we always shut off the the gas at the tank. Burners first, then the tank. Always.
> 
> The first time it happened we thought it was because we had bought a gauge so we would know how much was left in the tank. Second time we didn't put the gauge and instead of getting the tank refilled, we got an exchange.
> 
> If we don't have the storms promised for tomorrow, we will be checking with soapy water tomorrow.



At some time in the far past, I was instructed to turn off the gas at the tank first, then turn off the burners.  I don't know if it actually makes a difference, but that's how I do it.


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## Roll_Bones

RPCookin said:


> At some time in the far past, I was instructed to turn off the gas at the tank first, then turn off the burners.  I don't know if it actually makes a difference, but that's how I do it.



This IMO is the correct way.  If you turn off the burners first, then turn off the tank, you will still have pressure on the lines.
Turn off tank.  Then all gas is in the tank, not the lines.


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## taxlady

RPCookin said:


> At some time in the far past, I was instructed to turn off the gas at the tank first, then turn off the burners.  I don't know if it actually makes a difference, but that's how I do it.





Roll_Bones said:


> This IMO is the correct way.  If you turn off the burners first, then turn off the tank, you will still have pressure on the lines.
> Turn off tank.  Then all gas is in the tank, not the lines.


D'oh! You guys are right. It's been a long time since I used the grill. The hubster says he does it tank first. I was basically remembering that we carefully followed the instructions that came with the grill. Dodo here just didn't remember what those instructions were.


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## RPCookin

One other caution:  When you turn the gas on, do it slowly at first.  The newer style valves have a safety lockout in them that cuts the flow to a bare minimum when you just crank it open.  Just turn slowly for about one turn, then open all the way.


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## taxlady

RPCookin said:


> One other caution:  When you turn the gas on, do it slowly at first.  The newer style valves have a safety lockout in them that cuts the flow to a bare minimum when you just crank it open.  Just turn slowly for about one turn, then open all the way.


I did not know that. Thank you for pointing it out. I will mention it to the hubster.


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## taxlady

RPCookin, thank you again. Turning the valve too fast was the problem. That explains it. The first tank would hardly give us any flames, but when we went to exchange it for a full one, my DH had to move a bunch of empty tanks and said that ours felt like it was still half full. DH grilled some Italian sausage tonight. He very carefully turned the valve on slowly and bingo, the grill worked like when it was brand new.


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## Andy M.

RPCookin said:


> One other caution:  When you turn the gas on, do it slowly at first.  The newer style valves have a safety lockout in them that cuts the flow to a bare minimum when you just crank it open.  Just turn slowly for about one turn, then open all the way.



I had never had an issue with opening the bottle valve too quickly.  

If you open the bottle valve when one or more of the grill's burners is "ON", the grill will light with a minimal flame as a safety precaution.  When that happens, you have to turn off the bottle and all the burners then reopen the gas bottle.


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## taxlady

Andy M. said:


> I had never had an issue with opening the bottle valve too quickly.
> 
> If you open the bottle valve when one or more of the grill's burners is "ON", the grill will light with a minimal flame as a safety precaution.  When that happens, you have to turn off the bottle and all the burners then reopen the gas bottle.


I will have to ask Stirling if that could have been the problem.


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## albert01

Newer types of lpg hose now have a safety shutoff valve. (I'm not completely certain but think it's now a Federal Safety regulation for all new hoses manufactured after a certain date) 

Some lpg equipment if you turn on the gas too fast the valve in lpg hose closes. While other times the hose shut-off valve become defective. 

My Mr. Buddy heater after running for a while kept shutting off for no apparent reason. Mr. Heater sent me a replacement lpg hose and now it works fine.

Another thing with some Lpg equipment such as Mr. Heater heaters. If you connect an unregulated tank or gas source to the heater port (designed for unregulated 1 lbs portable bottles) Oils and plastic from the hose potentially leaches into the lpg gas and clogs  up the heater after a certain amount of  use.

Mr. Heater remedy is to either use a lpg filter between the hose and heater or to use one of the special hoses that made from hose material that doesn't leach when under high pressure.

You need to remember there are low pressure and high pressure lpg hoses. Where the low pressure hoses are designed to be used with regulated lpg gas.

So you don't want to use a low pressure lpg hose on an unregulated gas supply (or tank without a regulator).

Gas grills usually don't have problems with valves clogging as they normally use  regulated low pressure gas. Plus I think ceramic heaters may use a more refined valving which is more susceptible  to clogging from gas that's been leached with impurities.

Anyway I would also check your lpg hose for a shutoff valve. Older lpg hoses do not have them.


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## CraigC

I don't think I've seen LP grills at any home improvement store. I think they are all propane, which can't use LP without being converted.


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## RPCookin

CraigC said:


> I don't think I've seen LP grills at any home improvement store. I think they are all propane, which can't use LP without being converted.



LP *is* Liquid Propane.  They may need conversion to run on _natural gas_, but every one I ever saw comes designed for propane.  

I know that natural gas kitchen ranges need to have a conversion kit installed to use them with LP (both gas ranges I've bought came with the kit, ready for installation if needed), but I've never used a gas grill with natural gas, so I don't really know what the requirement is for that.


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## albert01

CraigC said:


> I don't think I've seen LP grills at any home improvement store. I think they are all propane, which can't use LP without being converted.



Propane was discovered by the French chemist Marcellin Berthelot in 1857

Propane is one of a group of liquefied petroleum gases (LP gases). The others include butane, propylene, butadiene, butylene, isobutylene, and mixtures thereof.

LPG is a mixture of gasses and  referred to simply as propane or butane

*LPG* – *Liquefied Petroleum Gas* – is flammable hydrocarbon gas liquefied through pressurisation. *Propane* is classified as *LPG*, along with butane, isobutane and mixtures of these gases. 

There are some differences between Propane and LPG within related industries depending on whether referred to and  used as a gas or liquid.

Propane is a byproduct of natural gas processing and petroleum  refining. Before propane is used, it exists in one of two forms, liquid  or gas (or vapor). Both liquid propane and gas are usable but cannot be  used interchangeably. In other words, a propane system designed to use  gas can’t utilize propane in its liquid form and vice-versa.  Additionally, the characteristics of propane liquid and propane gas are  so different that the primary properties we are concerned with are as  different as night and day. With propane liquid, temperature is the  primary factor whereas weight is the main concern regarding propane  vapor. Think of it this way, water is liquid and steam is water vapor.  The same holds true for propane and is explained in detail below.

*Propane Liquid*
 Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG), is a fuel in  liquid form at or below its boiling point (-44 degrees F) and when it is  stored under pressure, otherwise it turns to gas (or vapor). A propane  and butane mixture has been successfully used for over 95 years in more  than 270,000 American vehicles and over 13 million worldwide used mainly  as a vehicle fuel or to easily identify a leak (due to the smell).


*Propane Gas (or Vapor)*
 Propane becomes a vapor at temperatures above  -44 degrees F. Similar to water when it boils and gives off steam,  propane gives off vapor when it boils. Propane gas is heavier than air  and will settle in the lowest place possible. If there is a leak, the  level will continue to rise and may ignite if it finds a source. It is  mainly used for engines, barbeques, portable stoves and home heating.


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## CraigC

RPCookin said:


> LP *is* Liquid Propane.  They may need conversion to run on _natural gas_, but every one I ever saw comes *designed for propane.  *
> 
> I know that natural gas kitchen ranges need to have a conversion kit installed to use them with LP (both gas ranges I've bought came with the kit, ready for installation if needed), but I've never used a gas grill with natural gas, so I don't really know what the requirement is for that.



Duh, propane in its *gaseous* form but not LP, its liquid form. The two are not interchangeable. 

What Is the Difference Between LP and Propane Gas? - AMERIgreen Energy


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## Rocklobster

GF sprays me with soapy water every so often because she suspects I'm leaking gas...


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## albert01

Here's a link to some more interesting facts  about propane and LPG. 

_Is There a Difference Between Propane vs LPG?_

Propane vs LPG | Whatâ€™s what? Same or Different? | ELGAS - LPG Gas for Home & Business

I also found this paragraph from a website about the difference of 

*Vapor Service vs. Liquid Service *

   Propane vapor service and propane liquid service are completely different  from one another. Most all propane applications use vapor for service  requirements. The importance in knowing the difference between liquid  service and vapor service is strictly for safety and usability.  Appliances such as water heaters, furnaces and gas grills are used in  vapor service. If these appliances were to  have liquid propane flow to  their burners, the result could possibly be a fire or similar danger.  This is why propane cylinders should be positioned upright when  grilling. Turning a cylinder on its side or inverting it while being  used on a gas grill or fryer is not a smart thing to do.


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## RPCookin

All of this talk about liquid vs. gas is mostly irrelevant.  For virtually all of the uses that we as consumers put it to, we are storing propane or LPG as a liquid, but using it as gas.  I thought that the discussion was about the conversion necessary to run on natural gas vs. LPG, both of which are in gaseous form when burned in a kitchen range.  

Appliances which are able use either still require the feed system which is appropriate to the particular fuel.  This usually is a simple kit, mostly just replacing the burner orifices and changing a part in the regulator.


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## albert01

I think the post was originally about testing for gas leaks.

Soapy water is the most common and good for testing for leaks in different areas of a gas line and system.

There are solutions available  that are used same as soapy water.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCra...gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CI_L15DDxdUCFUisZAodvB8BzQ

Another method often used  to test for leaks on gas appliances and systems found in homes, RVs, boats, etc. is to use a manometer. These can be purchased  or you can make one your self out of some tubing.

A few results searching "manometer homemade"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnlfQK-8qy4

Using a Homemade Manometer

How to make a water manometer

RV U Tube Manometer

There are also inexpensive dial type manometer usually made and from China on eBay. With the correct fittings can be connected directly to a gas grill.

This is how many people test for leaks is to connect a manometer directly to the stove which is part of a gas system in their home, rv, boat, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRubt1b6-cA


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## Roll_Bones

Wouldn't the liquid at the bottom of the tank be liquid propane and the gas above it in the same container be propane gas?

At least I would have bet on it until I read this thread.  Are they not exactly the same gas?


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