# Cooking in stock question



## Argamemnon (Aug 29, 2008)

I have just made my first veal stock, it's still cooking  I want to cook lentils tomorrow, maybe also lentil soup, but I don't know how much stock I should use..

Using only stock would of course be way too heavy I assume? If I use 1 cup water, how much stock should I add for example? Thanks in advance!


----------



## GhettoRacingKid (Aug 29, 2008)

it depends on how much you reduce the stock but usually its not much of an issue

I would give ti a quick taste before cooking the lentil and see if you should dilute it.

I love stock and I make my own all the time.  I keep it on hand for everything.

when I make my stock I usually reduce about 2 gallons down to about 2 quarts.  the flavor is assume and it gives it a wonderful flavor.  its not at all thick.  you would have to go down to liek a a pint before it gets thick.

did you roast your bones and mire poux?


----------



## Jeekinz (Aug 29, 2008)

GhettoRacingKid said:


> when I make my stock I usually reduce about 2 gallons down to about 2 quarts. the flavor is assume and it gives it a wonderful flavor. its not at all thick. you would have to go down to liek a a pint before it gets thick.


 
I'd use that like a demi.  A coupla tablespoons in a pan sauce..YUM.

Can't wait for winter.


----------



## Argamemnon (Aug 29, 2008)

GhettoRacingKid said:


> it depends on how much you reduce the stock but usually its not much of an issue
> 
> I would give ti a quick taste before cooking the lentil and see if you should dilute it.
> 
> ...


I roasted my bones in the oven with tomato paste (about 45 minutes). And I want to cook it for 4 or 5 hours. I don't know what mire poux is (I'm not that experienced).


----------



## GhettoRacingKid (Aug 29, 2008)

ohh tis the onions, carrots and celery.

the sachet is the herb packet of bayleaf, thyme, peppercorn and optional garlic clove


----------



## Argamemnon (Aug 29, 2008)

I see. I added leeks, celery, onions, carrots, parsley and fresh thyme.

I made it this way: 

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=cRpRP-bMEQI


----------



## jennyema (Aug 29, 2008)

*Mirepoix* 

It's the term for the finely chopped onion, carrot and celery that is the base for many sauces, soups, etc. as well as other dishes.

Just taste your final product and add water according to your taste.


----------



## GhettoRacingKid (Aug 29, 2008)

I lvoe leeks

I also throw mushrooms in mine if I got them.

on a stock note:  when I make Chicken stock I take soem and Ill take my left over shrimp shells and lboster shells and ill make it into a very tasty seafood stock.


----------



## Argamemnon (Aug 29, 2008)

Thanks for the answers everyone.


----------



## Argamemnon (Aug 29, 2008)

jennyema said:


> Just taste your final product and add water according to your taste.


 Taste my stock before cooking lentils?


----------



## GB (Aug 29, 2008)

Yes


----------



## Argamemnon (Aug 29, 2008)

So if it tastes 'heavy' for example, I could add water I guess (when cooking lentils).


----------



## jennyema (Aug 29, 2008)

Argamemnon said:


> Taste my stock before cooking lentils?


 
Yes.  That was your original question, wasn't it?


----------



## GB (Aug 29, 2008)

Metsada said:


> So if it tastes 'heavy' for example, I could add water I guess (when cooking lentils).


Exactly


----------



## GhettoRacingKid (Aug 29, 2008)

yeah it will be very very very bland but youll see how strong the flavors are.  and from there you can see if its too strong for you and that you want to dilute it but i use it straight up how i have it.


----------



## Argamemnon (Aug 29, 2008)

Ok thanks. Also, I don't want to waste any stock (using too much for example), so I hope I can use it for weeks. I'm going to freeze it..


----------



## GhettoRacingKid (Aug 29, 2008)

I got a conference call in a bit so willnt be around for a bit but......

I freeze all my stock.

You can make another stock by reusing the veggies, bones and stuff,  its called a remouilde (sp?)

got to run


----------



## Argamemnon (Aug 29, 2008)

Good luck.


----------



## sattie (Aug 29, 2008)

Argamemnon said:


> I have just made my first veal stock, it's still cooking  I want to cook lentils tomorrow, maybe also lentil soup, but I don't know how much stock I should use..
> 
> Using only stock would of course be way too heavy I assume? If I use 1 cup water, how much stock should I add for example? Thanks in advance!


 
I make much of my own stock and since I do, I try to make it last.  I often use stock/water combinations.  If a recipe asks for 3 cups of stock, I will use 2 cups of my own stock and 1 cup of water.  I do this just in case my stock is to heavy.  And if it is too mild, I can always add flavor to perk it up.

I love making stock, it is a good way to put bones, veggie stuff to good use when you can't use it all in your daily cooking.  

I just need to figure out how to make some good beef stock!


----------



## Argamemnon (Aug 29, 2008)

sattie said:


> I just need to figure out how to make some good beef stock!


I'll post this again, maybe you didn't see it: 
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=cRpRP-bMEQI


----------



## sattie (Aug 29, 2008)

No, I did not see it... thanks for reposting that for me!!!


----------



## Argamemnon (Aug 29, 2008)

You're welcome, but beware when roasting the bones in the oven. It burns easily..


----------



## GhettoRacingKid (Aug 29, 2008)

Argamemnon said:


> You're welcome, but beware when roasting the bones in the oven. It burns easily..


 

lightly coat the sheet pan and the bones in oil.

turn then every so often.


Thanks,  the CC went good.  Im working on a major project at work.  Good times...


----------



## Argamemnon (Aug 29, 2008)

GhettoRacingKid said:


> lightly coat the sheet pan and the bones in oil.
> 
> turn then every so often.
> 
> ...


Thanks I'll do that next time. My stock is not very thick. I expected it to be thicker. It didn't go well when roasting, since the bones burnt, and I had to remove the burn. And by doing so, I also removed some good parts of the bones. Oh well, it was my first time, it still tastes and smells good.


----------



## Argamemnon (Aug 29, 2008)

jennyema said:


> Yes. That was your original question, wasn't it?


Yes, sorry I hadn't seen this.


----------



## GhettoRacingKid (Aug 29, 2008)

burnt or carmalized?

you can always reduce it.

after you make stock a few times especially beef/veal stock it will be second nature.

stocks are another reason why I buy all my chicken whole.  I love usign the discarded parts and bones.


----------



## Argamemnon (Aug 29, 2008)

GhettoRacingKid said:


> burnt or carmalized?


It was black so burnt..




> stocks are another reason why I buy all my chicken whole. I love usign the discarded parts and bones.


But you can also buy bones at the butcher's? I'm afraid I'm too lazy to do everything myself, and I don't have enough time either.


----------



## KissTC (Aug 29, 2008)

I am confused...Is the OP using two different user names?

Yes you can freeze stock. Another method so that it is always ready is to seal with fat. Heat the stock when at boiling point add a big piece of fat such as dripping, lard or butter. Then turn off the heat and allow to cool. When cool put it in the fridge. The fat will float to the top and set hard. Simply lift the fat off when you want to use the stock.

Basic food storage safety rule is...All living things (including germs) need three things - Temperature (heat), water and air - and must have all three. Remove any one and the germ cannot live. The fat method removes the air. Freezing of couse removes heat.

I hope that is of help


----------



## GB (Aug 29, 2008)

KissTC said:


> Basic food storage safety rule is...All living things (including germs) need three things - Temperature (heat), water and air - and must have all three. Remove any one and the germ cannot live.


This is incorrect. Take Botulism for example. The reason you can not safely make your own garlic oil is because botulism thrives in an anaerobic (no air) environment.


----------



## KissTC (Aug 29, 2008)

Your sort of correct...but not quite.

Anaerobic life forms can survive without oxygen. Not neccessarly without air. In fact some will die from contacting oxygen.

But, yes some life appears to live without air such as fish. But in truth they extract their "air" from the water...as an example.

I think you will find that the bacteria that produces the botulin toxin extracts it's "air" requirement from microscopic gas pockets in the garlic. However, you are correct that the bacteria is anaerobic and as such covering with oil will block the oxygen and allow the bacteria to thrive to toxic levels.

However, you will find that (what I call normal hygiene) proper hygiene and refridgeration will stop botulism in garlic oil. Stay clean and keep your oil in the fridge and you should be fine.



PS...A few months ago I actually tried to make garlic oil and keep it at room temp. I fried the garlic in oil until the garlic had absulutely no water content left. I then strained it and took the oil back up to temp. Then bottled in very sterile bottles...You guessed it, it didn't work. Within a few days a white cloud of bacteria had grown.


----------



## GB (Aug 29, 2008)

Fish do not extract air from the water. They extract oxygen.

Keeping homemade garlic in the fridge is safe for about 10 days, no longer. It does not matter how hygienic you are. Botulism can still grow.

Anaerobic
1 a: living, active, occurring, or existing in the absence of free oxygen <anaerobic respiration> <anaerobic bacteria> b: of, relating to, or being activity in which the body incurs an oxygen debt <anaerobic exercise>


----------



## KissTC (Aug 29, 2008)

Nup 
If you put a fish in pure (distilled) water, it will drown. The water must be airated.

A common method of preparing salt or sea water for fish tanks. Is to put the water in a large container like a large bucket, and wait. After about 4 to 6 weeks all life will be dead...suffocated...drowned. Then the sea water is sterile enough for an aquarium. Once an air pump is in and airating the water, fish can once again survive.



My edit was just to correct a "typo".


----------



## archiduc (Aug 29, 2008)

Argamemnon said:


> I have just made my first veal stock, it's still cooking  I want to cook lentils tomorrow, maybe also lentil soup, but I don't know how much stock I should use..
> 
> Using only stock would of course be way too heavy I assume? If I use 1 cup water, how much stock should I add for example? Thanks in advance!


 

Hi Argamemnon,
A well made and flavoursome veal stock would not be, and should not be too heavy for cooking lentils.

Which type of lentils are you cooking? Red, green or brown?

What else are you cooking - braised Puy Lentils, cooked in stock with duck breasts, following and initial sauté and finished on the lentils make a magnificant dish.

Red lentils lend themselves to a dhal or dal and might be seasoned with a whole variety of spices.

IMHO, a good veal stock should be mild and mellifluous and used to cook lentils and beans with other ingredients without being diluted or denuded by water.

If you wish to use the stock to cook beans and lentils then the stock is best made/ cooked without the addition of salt, reduced until flavoursome (taste often) and after cooking and straining, used to cook the pulses, beans and lentils etc. Including salt in the stock and the using to cook pulses and beans renders beans and pulses hard.  One should add salt at the end of cooking the lentils, beans etc. to flavour and season the ingredients. Adding salt or cooking in a medium which contains salt when cooking beans and lentils results in toughening the skins. Recipes for classic stocks do not include the addition of salt at any point as reduction of the stock, i.e., boiling intensifies the flavour, and in particular the salt content. 

Hope this helps,
Archiduc


----------



## GB (Aug 30, 2008)

KissTC said:


> Nup
> If you put a fish in pure (distilled) water, it will drown. The water must be airated.
> 
> A common method of preparing salt or sea water for fish tanks. Is to put the water in a large container like a large bucket, and wait. After about 4 to 6 weeks all life will be dead...suffocated...drowned. Then the sea water is sterile enough for an aquarium. Once an air pump is in and airating the water, fish can once again survive.
> ...


Distilled water does not mean water without oxygen. It is deionized water. The water does not need to be aerated, it needs to be oxygenated. It would be silly to use just oxygen though when air is free and plentiful and will get the fish the oxygen they need. 

After 4-6 weeks in a non aerated tank everything will be dead because all the oxygen will be used up. It does not mean they needed air only. Oxygen would have worked too.

In any event, this is way off topic so we should probably get back to discussing stock. 

This has nothing to do with stock though


----------



## KissTC (Aug 30, 2008)

GB said:


> Distilled water does not mean water without oxygen. It is deionized water.
> 
> In any event, this is way off topic so we should probably get back to discussing stock.
> 
> This has nothing to do with stock though


 
Gizzz me da break mate...de-ion-ized...my back side!!!

H2O...Da "O" means oxygen...pure water is 1/3 oxygen! 

Hang on a sec...Ya right...!!!

No wonder ya da Admin...Ya picked it up! We off topic!

Mmmm...Might have to start a new fishin fred.


----------



## GhettoRacingKid (Aug 30, 2008)

anyway.

Stock is good to freeze.  I leave it frozen 

I need my fridge space more then my freezer.

If you going to use it often then you can leave it in the fridge but I wouldnt let it sit in the fridge for more then a month tops.


----------



## GB (Aug 30, 2008)

I do not know any stock that would last in a fridge for a month. I would not go more than 4 says or so. Any longer and it must go in the freezer.


----------



## GhettoRacingKid (Aug 30, 2008)

I only said a month (i wouldnt either) but the stock at my school was kept for some time in the walk in.

we also reduced the crap out of it though.


----------



## KissTC (Aug 30, 2008)

GhettoRacingKid said:


> anyway.
> 
> Stock is good to freeze. I leave it frozen
> 
> .


 
Oh, well, what ever...I like my stock hot.!

But then again there are people out there that like frozen pizza! I like mine so hot that the cheese melts !!

Each to their own...

Back on topic...

Cook lentils as per normal...which will prob mean soaking over night or boiling for 1 or 2 hours etc, etc. Just do that in plain water.

Then when your lentils are cooked you can start building your soup. There are three rules to follow...

1...If it tastes good, do it.

2...Corn flour is used to thicken soup

3...Wheat flour is used to thicken sauces and gravies. 

That is it...and when all else fails refer back to rule 1.




Try getting some bacon bones. Simmer them in some of your veal stock. then (without removing the bacon bones) add your lentils. Then you have pea and ham soup!!

Of course add other things as you like...like garlic, onion, chilli etc, etc.

But no matter what you do...You MUST always follow rule number 1...
If it tastes good, do it!


----------



## GhettoRacingKid (Aug 30, 2008)

Kiss,  I heat mine back up.  and I like my pizza at least room temp.  

I thought OP was just making lentils not a lentil soup.

OP can cook the lentils directly in the stock and the lentil will absorbe some of the flavor from the stock.

Bean (legumes) have to be soaked in water becuase anythign else is too dense to actually penetrate the bean.  lentils are different.


I became a big fan of lentils when i got stuck making them in culinary school all the time.  


I made a lentil, duck meatball and swiss chard soup.  it was rocking.  

I had fortified the veal stock with the duck bones and carcass and then cooked the lentils seared the meatballs and added it to the soup.  added the chard at the end.


----------



## Argamemnon (Aug 30, 2008)

archiduc said:


> Hi Argamemnon,
> A well made and flavoursome veal stock would not be, and should not be too heavy for cooking lentils.
> 
> Which type of lentils are you cooking? Red, green or brown?


Hi archiduc, 
I have cooked brown lentils. Thank you for the information.


----------



## KissTC (Aug 30, 2008)

Legumes, are actually any seed that is dried and come from a double seamed pod. 
Legumes include (for example)...beans, peas, lentils and peanuts.


----------

