# Dry milk vs whole



## pacanis (Mar 11, 2008)

It's amazing the difference changing one ingredient can make.
My order from KA was taking its good old time getting here and I did not feel like buying a huge box of what the local store had to offer of dry milk.  Something that said makes 8 qts....
So, I called KA and asked them what I could do until my order of their Baker's dry milk got here. I thought I remembered reading somewhere that I could substitute, but wasn't sure how. I was told to replace the 3 tbs of dry milk with 1/4c of "scalded" milk. So of course I asked what that was. For anyone who doesn't know, it is heating the milk on the stove until it starts to bubble on the edges, *not boil*, and then letting it cool back down to room temp. It has something to do with getting rid of whatever's in it that will negatively impact the yeast. So in went the ingredients into my breadmachine with this one change.

The bread came out moister. Kind of like Wonder Bread compared to Strohmanns (for those that know). The crust was lighter colored and softer, too. I think I will remember this and mix it up once in a while for a change. My next loaf will be back to my regular recipe, but this was nice.

FWIW


----------



## Fisher's Mom (Mar 11, 2008)

I didn't know this - thanks for posting it pacanis. And I've always wondered what the heck scalded milk is!


----------



## Katie H (Mar 11, 2008)

Thanks, pacanis.  I usually only use bottled milk in my breads that call for milk.  However, when I make pain de mie,  which  I did today, I use  dry milk in its dry form,  along with potato flour.   Makes the best sandwich bread ever.


----------



## LadyCook61 (Mar 11, 2008)

that subsitute is good to know, I knew what scalded milk is but didn't know it would be a good sub for a missing ingredient., I am often out of dry milk. I'm also waiting on an order from KA .


----------



## pacanis (Mar 11, 2008)

It's a substitute and the results were good, but don't expect the same end product.
I guess that's what I was trying to say (lol).


----------



## LadyCook61 (Mar 11, 2008)

pacanis said:


> It's a substitute and the results were good, but don't expect the same end product.
> I guess that's what I was trying to say (lol).


 
I understood what you meant .


----------



## Michael in FtW (Mar 12, 2008)

Well, pacanis, if you really did exactly what you said you did - you did more than you realize. If you left out the 3 Tbs of dry milk powder and replaced it with 1/4 c liquid milk - you decreased the dry ingredients of your recipe by 3 Tbs, and increased the liquid by 4 Tbs. Although it may be a small change in the ratio of wet:dry ... it certainly could contribute to the changes you mentionied (moister crumb, paler and softer crust) especially if mixed and baked in a bread machine. 

Now, if you reduced the liquid in the recipe to compensate for the liquid milk, and maybe also reduced the flour by 2-3 Tbs to rebalance the wet:dry ratio ... then maybe Shirley Corriher didn't state the affects of scalding the milk strongly enough.

In her book CookWise, Shirley talks about scalding milk especially for bread recipes - it kills a protein that reduces the volume of the loaf as it rises and bakes. If I remember right - this is even more noticable with powdered (nonfat dry) milk than fresh milk ... and the amount of milk also makes a difference. I'm just working from memory here ... my copy is still in a box somewhere in the garage - but I know several other DC members have a copy of _CookWise_ so maybe one of them can supply us with a little more detail than what I can remember on what Shirley said.

Anyway - that's just a couple of thoughts to explain your differences.


----------



## pacanis (Mar 13, 2008)

Michael in FtW said:


> Now, if you reduced the liquid in the recipe to compensate for the liquid milk, and maybe also reduced the flour by 2-3 Tbs to rebalance the wet:dry ratio ... then maybe Shirley Corriher didn't state the affects of scalding the milk strongly enough.


 
I did reduce the water in the recipe by 1/4c so the recipe remained a total of 1-1/2c of liquid combined.
I did not alter the dry ingredients at all, but if I would have, wouldn't I have to _add_ 3 Tbs of flour to make up for not having the 3 Tbs of dry milk? Not reduce since I am already shy?

I really don't know anything about dry milk and what it actually is..... It sounds like something a backpacker would take with him so he can add water and have milk with his cereal. And I don't know if KA's baker's dry milk is exactly the same as the dry milk you see in the store that "makes 8 qts". But if that's the case, and this is just a WAG, the dry milk in the original recipe would become liquid after the water hits it, or at least incorporate itself with the water and dissolve. So maybe it isn't a dry ingredient at all annymore.....  Now that might be stretching things a bit, but it sounds good at this time of day


----------



## Michael in FtW (Mar 13, 2008)

pacanis said:


> I did reduce the water in the recipe by 1/4c so the recipe remained a total of 1-1/2c of liquid combined.
> I did not alter the dry ingredients at all, but if I would have, wouldn't I have to _add_ 3 Tbs of flour to make up for not having the 3 Tbs of dry milk? Not reduce since I am already shy?


Yep - I got that one backwards!  

The dry (powdered) milk that you find in the grocery store (probably labeled nonfat instant dry milk) is like you said - dehydrated milk that you can add water to and reconstitute to nonfat liquid milk. The King Arthur Baker's Special dry milk is also nonfat, but it is not the same for several reasons. First it is processed at a higher temperature - this kills the protease that retards yeast development (what you get from scalding milk), it will not reconstitute when added to water, and it is higher in sugar. And, since it will not dissolve in water it has to be used as a dry ingredient.

Okay - the following is based on the information from the King Arthur site and the jug of whole milk I have in the 'fridge:

3 Tbs KA dry milk = 0g fat, 14.25g sugar
1/4 c milk = 2.25g fat, 2.75g sugar

So, by using liquid whole milk instead of the KA dry milk:

You increased the liquid to dry ingredients ratio a touch.
You added some fat - about equivalent to 1 teaspoon butter.
You decreased the sugar content by just shy of 1 Tbs.

Milk creates a more tender crust than water.
Fat aids in making bread more tender and moist.
Sugar absorbs water from the dough and it also promotes the browning of the crust.

It's amazing how all of the little differences appear to add up.


----------



## pacanis (Mar 13, 2008)

That's pretty cool info, Michael. Thanks.
I think I might try to come up with a recipe of my own where I use so much dry milk and so much scalded milk.

That's what cookin's all about, right?


----------



## crono760 (Mar 13, 2008)

Speaking of scalding milk: I've heard the same thing about it: "that you wait until bubbles form but BEFORE it boils, then let it cool"...except I can't visualize what that means.  I always either boil my milk (accidentally) or take it of (maybe?) too soon.  

I know it's kind of strange, but does anyone have a picture of milk looks like when it's scalded?

Mike


----------



## Katie H (Mar 13, 2008)

Picture this, Mike.  You have your milk in the pan.  The heat  is under it and, as you're watching, you can see tiny (pinhead-like) bubbles beginning to form around the perimeter of the pan.  This signals the scalding point.  The milk in the center of the pan might also look a little nervous, "shimmery,"  at the same time.  You are just trying to get the milk very hot but not boiling.  Does this make sense to you?  Try a little pan of milk to see  what I'm trying to explain.  It will be clear once you actually see it.


----------



## pacanis (Mar 13, 2008)

No pic, Mike, but they are very tiny bubbles that appear along the edge, then they multiply and grow slightly larger, but the rest of the milk looks relatively unchanged.  The milk doesn't really "move" when this happening, not like when it starts to roll before it comes to a boil.
I had my heat on low and it took longer than I thought for only 1/4c (no lid).

Hope this helps paint a picture.


----------



## pacanis (Mar 13, 2008)

Yeah. What she said


----------



## crono760 (Mar 13, 2008)

Hm...I can totally see myself buying five litres of milk and scalding 1/4c batches until I get it right...;-) Sounds like a fun Friday night haha

Thanks for the info,

Mike


----------



## Katie H (Mar 13, 2008)

crono760 said:


> Hm...I can totally see myself buying five litres of milk and scalding 1/4c batches until I get it right...;-) Sounds like a fun Friday night haha
> 
> Thanks for the info,
> 
> Mike



Hey, you can always use your "experiments" to make individual cups of hot chocolate!


----------



## pacanis (Mar 13, 2008)

Drinking that much warm milk he's likely to go to bed before he's finished experimenting


----------



## Katie H (Mar 13, 2008)

pacanis said:


> Drinking that much warm milk he's likely to go to bed before he's finished experimenting



In that case, pacanis, which one of us is going to read him his beddy-bye story?


----------



## crono760 (Mar 13, 2008)

hahaha I'd imagine that after a few litres of warm milk, no story in the world could keep me awake :P


----------



## pacanis (Mar 13, 2008)

Katie E said:


> In that case, pacanis, which one of us is going to read him his beddy-bye story?


 
Well, since I'm mute Katie, it will have to be you 














Gotcha


----------



## Michael in FtW (Mar 14, 2008)

Get a candy/fry thermometer (everyone needs one in the kitchen anyway) and heat the milk to 180ºF. It you look at the milk at that point you'll notice it's getting bubbles around the edge of the pan and not boiling.


----------

