# Sauteeing vs. stewing?



## pengyou (Nov 13, 2018)

I am to generate a bit of discussion on the "theory" of cooking here.  What is the difference (in the taste, texture, etc) among the following choices: (the bigger picture here - I am talking about making a tomato based spaghetti sauce)

1. sauteing onions, garlic, mushrooms, green peppers, etc by themselves and then adding them to a meat sauce
2.  sauteing onions, garlic and/or mushrooms, green peppers, etc with the meat and then adding them to the sauce 

3. browning the meat and then adding the onions, garlic, mushrooms, green peppers, etc to the sauce with the meat and letting it simmer.


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## GotGarlic (Nov 13, 2018)

Brown the meat and remove it from the pan. Sauté the vegetables in the meat fat, adding a little salt; add olive oil if necessary. Deglaze with red wine and let it reduce by half. Return the meat to the pan and add the tomatoes/tomato sauce, along with seasonings (herbs, spices, Parmesan cheese rind, etc.),. Simmer for about an hour. Taste and adjust seasoning.

Browning food in fat creates new flavors. Some flavors dissolve in fat, some in alcohol and some in water. So using all of these elements maximizes flavor.


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## Andy M. (Nov 13, 2018)

GotGarlic said:


> Brown the meat and remove it from the pan. Sauté the vegetables in the meat fat, adding a little salt; add olive oil if necessary. Deglaze with red wine and let it reduce by half. Return the meat to the pan and add the tomatoes/tomato sauce, along with seasonings (herbs, spices, Parmesan cheese rind, etc.),. Simmer for about an hour. Taste and adjust seasoning.
> 
> Browning food in fat creates new flavors. Some flavors dissolve in fat, some in alcohol and some in water. So using all of these elements maximizes flavor.



Bingo.


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## caseydog (Nov 13, 2018)

I'm pretty much with GG on this. You will get the best results if you brown the meat and sauté the onions and stuff separately. Using some fat from the meat is good, but if the meat is lean, you will need to add some oil to the pan before your veggies. 

Like GG mentioned, that brown stuff on the pan (fond) from browning the meat is good for flavor. If you don't want to "deglaze" with wine, you can use a little splash of water -- it will steam the "fond" off of the pan (that's all de-glazing is). 

So, yeah, brown your meat first. Put it aside and sauté your veggies in the same pan, and then combine the meat, veggies and tomato sauce. The last step is seasoning to your preference. 

CD


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## pengyou (Nov 13, 2018)

GotGarlic said:


> Browning food in fat creates new flavors. Some flavors dissolve in fat, some in alcohol and some in water. So using all of these elements maximizes flavor.




I never knew this...it sounds like it is a little bit like vitamins...some are fat soluble, some re water soluble...


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## Cheryl J (Nov 14, 2018)

+3 to what others have said.  Browning the meat and sautéing the veggies in the lovely animal fat comes first, then add your tomatoes and seasonings and simmer for a few hours.  You'll end up with a really flavorful sauce.   Freezes well, too!


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## Caslon (Nov 14, 2018)

I'm following this thread as I've never made spaghetti and meat sauce. I've always meant to attempt it.  Nothing fancy, just basic hamburger based spaghetti sauce, like basic meat loaf. I could freeze up sections for later if I succeed.   I'm sure it would be better than frozen "Stouffer's Spaghetti with Meat Sauce"  that I've bought previously.


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## jennyema (Nov 14, 2018)

GG hit the nail on the head !! 

Although I believe that alcohol dissolves both water and oil soluable flavor componens


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## GotGarlic (Nov 14, 2018)

jennyema said:


> GG hit the nail on the head !!
> 
> Although I believe that alcohol dissolves both water and oil soluable flavor componens


You're right, it does. Here's an interesting article from the food scientist Shirley Corriher, who used to appear in Alton Brown's Good Eats. 

"Alcohol, be it in wine, beer, or hard liquor like vodka, is a powerful flavor extractor, too. It dissolves not only water-soluble flavors and fat-soluble flavors but also flavor components that neither water nor fat can dissolve. For example, we use alcohol to extract flavor from vanilla beans, and the reward is vanilla extract."

https://www.finecooking.com/article/the-culinary-wizardry-of-wine-and-alcohol


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## di reston (Nov 14, 2018)

Outside Italy, the home - obviously - of Itialian sauces, you need to  do some research. I would suggest that you do that you do that. I say because otherwise you will end up with may, and I reiterate MAY, end up with something which does'nt represent any a proper Italian dish.

di reston


Enough is never as good as a feast     Oscar Wilde


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## GotGarlic (Nov 14, 2018)

di reston said:


> Outside Italy, the home - obviously - of Itialian sauces, you need to  do some research. I would suggest that you do that you do that. I say because otherwise you will end up with may, and I reiterate MAY, end up with something which does'nt represent any a proper Italian dish.



Maybe what he wants is an Italian-American dish.


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## caseydog (Nov 14, 2018)

di reston, when large numbers of Italian immigrants came to America in the early 1900s (including my family), the recipes changed to reflect what ingredients were easily available here, as opposed to in Italy. The resulting foods are referred to as "Immigrant Italian." 

The sauces referred to in this thread are "Immigrant Italian" sauces. It is what most of us in America have grown up with. 

CD


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## Caslon (Nov 14, 2018)

Too complicated all of a sudden to me.  Spaghetti meat sauce.  That's all I wanted.

"A man comes into a bank to cash a check". (Jimmy Stewart), "Fools Parade" 1967.


He's just an American who came in asking about spaghetti  sauce.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1geDeECTBk


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## di reston (Nov 14, 2018)

Oops! I never intended to offend you!, let alone critisize anyone. I was merely expressing a view. 



di reston


Enough is never as good as a feast    Oscar Wilde


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## caseydog (Nov 14, 2018)

di reston said:


> Oops! I never intended to offend you!, let alone critisize anyone. I was merely expressing a view.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I wasn't offended at all. I don't know about anyone else. 

I was just sharing some insight on how a lot of traditional Italian cooking evolved into Italian-American cooking. Many of the changes came from early Italian immigrants who found themselves in a country where they found it necessary to adapt their cooking to what was available (and cheap) here. 

CD


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## GotGarlic (Nov 15, 2018)

I wasn't offended. I was simply pointing out that there are other versions of spaghetti with meat sauce than what you are familiar with and it seemed to me that the OP was asking about that.


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## pengyou (Nov 15, 2018)

Thank you for your input.  If I want to freeze the sauce, will the results be better (flavor and consistency) if I make the sauce without the meat - still use some meat fat to sautee the garlic, onions, etc in - freeze the sauce and then add the meat after I thaw out the sauce?


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## Cooking Goddess (Nov 15, 2018)

I've made big batches of meat sauce for ages and freeze it in meal size portions with no noticable difference in quality. The only thing is that the herbs and spices mellow during storage, so I just add more when I reheat the sauce.


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## caseydog (Nov 15, 2018)

pengyou said:


> Thank you for your input.  If I want to freeze the sauce, will the results be better (flavor and consistency) if I make the sauce without the meat - still use some meat fat to sautee the garlic, onions, etc in - freeze the sauce and then add the meat after I thaw out the sauce?



It will be fine with the meat in the sauce when you freeze it. It will be easier that way, too. You can just pull it from the freezer, heat it, and eat it. 

CD


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## Andy M. (Nov 15, 2018)

Tomato sauces with or without meat freeze fine. No need for special efforts.


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## tenspeed (Nov 16, 2018)

caseydog said:


> I was just sharing some insight on how a lot of traditional Italian cooking evolved into Italian-American cooking. Many of the changes came from early Italian immigrants who found themselves in a country where they found it necessary to adapt their cooking to what was available (and cheap) here.


  I recently picked up "Tasting Italy", the new book from National Geographic and America's Test Kitchen.  Haven't read it yet, but thumbed through it.  They point out that southern Italy has always been the poorest part of Italy, leading to more emigration than the north, so most Americans think of southern recipes when they think of Italian food.

  If you are interested in reading about how Americans have modified some other countries cuisines, I would suggest reading "Ten Restaurants That Changed America" by Paul Freedman.  It's an entertaining read, and will give you some insight into food history in the US.  I'm pretty sure that's where I read where Texans turned wienerschnitzel into chicken fried steak!


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## GotGarlic (Nov 16, 2018)

tenspeed said:


> I recently picked up "Tasting Italy", the new book from National Geographic and America's Test Kitchen.  Haven't read it yet, but thumbed through it.  They point out that southern Italy has always been the poorest part of Italy, leading to more emigration than the north, so most Americans think of southern recipes when they think of Italian food.
> 
> If you are interested in reading about how Americans have modified some other countries cuisines, I would suggest reading "Ten Restaurants That Changed America" by Paul Freedman.  It's an entertaining read, and will give you some insight into food history in the US.  I'm pretty sure that's where I read where Texans turned wienerschnitzel into chicken fried steak!


Yes, and interestingly, most German immigrants came from southern Germany - Bavaria. We've hosted three German exchange students - one from Berlin, one from Hamburg in the north and one from a city in the former East Germany. None of them had ever had German potato salad as we know it - because it was a Bavarian dish.

When I visited Austin, Texas, I learned that in the 1830s, a particular German acquired a large land grant and wrote to Germans back home telling them about the land available to purchase with low taxes. Of course, this appealed to people who at the time were mostly peasants working for the nobility. Later, some German nobles tried to establish a sort of mini-colony in the Texas colony and brought over thousands more peasants. That didn't last long, though.

I love food history. I'll look for that book - thanks for the recommendation.


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## tenspeed (Nov 16, 2018)

GotGarlic said:


> I love food history. I'll look for that book - thanks for the recommendation.


You would probably enjoy "Why We Eat What We Eat" by Raymond Sokolov.  I read it about 20 years ago, and should probably read it again (I still have it).  You can pick up a used copy on Amazon for $6.


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## GotGarlic (Nov 16, 2018)

tenspeed said:


> You would probably enjoy "Why We Eat What We Eat" by Raymond Sokolov.  I read it about 20 years ago, and should probably read it again (I still have it).  You can pick up a used copy on Amazon for $6.


Thanks ☺


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## caseydog (Nov 16, 2018)

GotGarlic said:


> Yes, and interestingly, most German immigrants came from southern Germany - Bavaria. We've hosted three German exchange students - one from Berlin, one from Hamburg in the north and one from a city in the former East Germany. None of them had ever had German potato salad as we know it - because it was a Bavarian dish.
> 
> When I visited Austin, Texas, I learned that in the 1830s, a particular German acquired a large land grant and wrote to Germans back home telling them about the land available to purchase with low taxes. Of course, this appealed to people who at the time were mostly peasants working for the nobility. Later, some German nobles tried to establish a sort of mini-colony in the Texas colony and brought over thousands more peasants. That didn't last long, though.
> 
> I love food history. I'll look for that book - thanks for the recommendation.



Yes, Central Texas/Hill Country is VERY German. It was German Immigrants who also created Texas BBQ -- which is beef centric, because that was the most available meat. 

As for Italian immigrants, my family came from the industrial North, near Torino. 

CD


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