# Do you make your own bread please?



## greedygut (Dec 6, 2018)

I am a big fan of Dr Axe (youtube) and he said that we should stay away from wheat and white flour. I used organic wholemeal and organic flour every day. Was he right to suggest that please? What do you eat for breakfast or lunch please?

Are there better ingredients than those two kinds of flour please?

Have you got a better recipe please?

Would like to pick up some healthy tips. 

Thank you in advance. 


Video link


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## CraigC (Dec 8, 2018)

I don't pay much attention to agenda driven presentations. Seems many things that in the past were considered bad for you only to find out the experts were wrong. Everything in moderation and we'll be fine.


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## greedygut (Dec 8, 2018)

Thank you.


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## Rocklobster (Dec 8, 2018)

You'll have to pry white flour from my cold, dead hands..


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## greedygut (Dec 8, 2018)

Rocklobster said:


> You'll have to pry white flour from my cold, dead hands..



Please explain. Thank you.


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## Andy M. (Dec 8, 2018)

I stopped listening to "experts" telling me what I should or should not eat. I eat what I like and I'm still here at 74 years old and going strong.


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## RPCookin (Dec 8, 2018)

Rocklobster said:


> You'll have to pry white flour from my cold, dead hands..



Same here.  Civilization was literally built on bread made from wheat flour.  Someone would build a flour mill on a river at a spot where there was enough current to power the grindstones, and a village just naturally grew up around or near the mill.  I see nothing wrong with wheat flour, like all things, in moderation.  It has so many uses in cooking and for all of them I only need one big canister on the counter.  I keep AP flour in this 2½ gallon Anchor Hocking Montana Jar (holds a 10 pound bag of flour and then some):


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## Rocklobster (Dec 8, 2018)

greedygut said:


> Please explain. Thank you.


 I enjoy using it in many things I make and eat..breads, pasta, gravy, for dredging, etc..I don't eat it every day or anything, but I have no plans of giving up eating it, regardless of what people say about it..


And as far as the prying it from my cold dead hands goes, I am using a quote from Charlton Heston, when he spoke about guns..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_my_cold,_dead_hands


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## JustJoel (Dec 8, 2018)

There aren’t too many reasons I can think of to stop using wheat flour. Of course, people who sensitive to gluten, or are living with celiac disease need to eliminate gluten from their diet. And I’ve no clue about today’s modern diets. 

If you’re fairly healthy, though, and not too overweight, go ahead and bake your heart out! Research flour strengths on the web, look into whole wheat and rye flours and how the can be incorporated into your baking. It’s all really quite fascinating!


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## greedygut (Dec 9, 2018)

JustJoel said:


> There aren’t too many reasons I can think of to stop using wheat flour. Of course, people who sensitive to gluten, or are living with celiac disease need to eliminate gluten from their diet. And I’ve no clue about today’s modern diets.
> 
> If you’re fairly healthy, though, and not too overweight, go ahead and bake your heart out! Research flour strengths on the web, look into whole wheat and rye flours and how the can be incorporated into your baking. It’s all really quite fascinating!



I like this answer most. What is so good about rye flour please? Somebody suggests sour dough. I will listen to you and research a bit more on this. Thank you.


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## pepperhead212 (Dec 9, 2018)

Until now, I hadn't even heard of Dr Axe, though I would have guessed that he was touting no gluten, no GMOs, or no carbs, or some combo of these.  I watched part of that video, and I was somewhat correct, though I will say that there were some good suggestions, though these are things heard almost everywhere, like the good foods.  



However, I haven't bought a loaf of bread since '76, and wheat flour is found in almost all the wheat bread I have baked.  I try to stay away from white flour, but I still use it, esp. when I need more gluten (like when I have a higher % of rye, or other whole grain flours, and I don't really see WW bread flour anywhere.  I have a grain mill, and have used many grains and legumes in breads, but I still use that wheat flour, as any yeast bread needs gluten, unless you are making one of those very dense 100% rye breads (which actually has a little gluten).  And I do make a few breads with 100% white flour (occasionally served with dinners); I use an artisan white flour that I got a 50 lb bag of from Honeyville - great flavor, as it has a little less removed than normal white flour in the processing.  I'm still alive; as others have noted, it's all about moderation. 



Supposedly, though I haven't done this, ground spelt has gluten, but it is different from other varieties of wheat, and will make yeast bread satisfactorily.  And no GMOs in spelt...yet.   Just to expensive for me, and I haven't ground that, except when I sprouted some, dried it, and ground that.  This gives it a delicious flavor, but it's not something I do frequently.


There are some flatbreads, made with whole grains, that don't really need the gluten, since they are not yeast breads.  One flour that holds together well, almost like wheat flour, is sorghum flour, or _Jowar, _in Indiian grocery stores.  Even the ones that don't hold together easily (corn, chick pea flour are two I can think of), will be OK once they are cooked.  For most of these flatbreads, I use my tortilla press for forming them - much easier than rolling them out, and for those doughs that don't have that super elastic consistency of wheat, they press out immediately, without retracting.


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## greedygut (Dec 9, 2018)

DOZENS of Food Crops Treated with Pre-Harvest Roundup (it’s not just wheat!) 
https://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/pre-harvest-roundup-crops-not-just-wheat/

In the above article, this bit really worries me:

Pre-harvest application of herbicides as a (toxic) drying agent on wheat is an established practice on many conventional farms. The method was first suggested as early as 1980, becoming routine in North America over the past 15 years or so. Use is also widespread in the UK.

Applying herbicides like Roundup 7-10 days before harvest is viewed as especially helpful for wheat that ripens unevenly, a common occurrence. It is also considered a helpful tool to initiate an earlier harvest when weather conditions threaten plant viability. Other benefits are earlier ripening for earlier replanting and reducing the green material in the field. This puts less strain on farm machinery during harvest.
Farmers euphemistically call the practice “desiccation”. When used during wheat harvest, it can result in slightly greater yield by triggering plants to release more seeds.
The result? Most non-organic wheat in North America is now contaminated with glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup and similar herbicides.

I have bread for breakfast and lunch. Now I buy only organic flour.  I use half organic white and half wholemeal. I would like to know if there are recipes for organic ingredients other than wholemeal and white flour. All recipes are welcome. 

Thank you, Dave, for your lovely and detailed contribution.


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## Cooking Goddess (Dec 9, 2018)

*pepperhead*, do you know of any Amish bulk food stores near you? When we go back home to OH, I shop the Amish stores near our daughter to buy my supply of flour. Every one that we've explored between Allentown PA to Millersburg OH carries a wide variety of pre-dust bowl grain flours. The varieties I have been buying are both from Wheat Montana: both hard spring wheats, Prairie Gold is a white wheat, and Bronze Chief is a red (or standard) wheat. Both are excellent for baking, including bread. I've noticed that since I've been baking more of our breads, and most of them are made with these wheats, I've not had as many old-age joint aches as with standard grocery store bread. Could be my imagination, too, but the bread tastes good, bakes up nice, the bulk flour costs less, and I'm happy.  I just can't live without my bread.



greedygut said:


> I am a big fan of Dr Axe (youtube) and he said that we should stay away from wheat and white flour. I used organic wholemeal and organic flour every day. Was he right to suggest that please? What do you eat for breakfast or lunch please?...


Hi, and welcome to DC, *greedygut*. Like *Craig*, I'm not a fan of internet personalities that register high on a quackery scale.  (Dr. Axe - Media Bias/Fact Check) I'm also a member of the "all things in moderation" club. I feel that as long as you do not have a medical condition that requires you to eliminate a certain food, our bodies work best when they have a variety of good quality foods.

As far as breakfasts go, when it's cold weather I like oatmeal. I'll cook at least four servings of steel-cut oats, portion out in serving size to store in the fridge, and have it for breakfast with some sort of add-in. I like walnuts and honey, or dried cranberries and walnuts, or dried cherries with almonds...you get the idea. When the weather is warm, I often have about 2/3 of a cup of plain Greek yogurt with fresh fruits. Often I'll bake a loaf of banana bread or some such thing for our breakfasts. Eggy things tend to end up being "breakfast for supper", since they're too fussy for us as a breakfast food.


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## greedygut (Dec 9, 2018)

Cooking Goddess said:


> *pepperhead*, do you know of any Amish bulk food stores near you? When we go back home to OH, I shop the Amish stores near our daughter to buy my supply of flour. Every one that we've explored between Allentown PA to Millersburg OH carries a wide variety of pre-dust bowl grain flours. The varieties I have been buying are both from Wheat Montana: both hard spring wheats, Prairie Gold is a white wheat, and Bronze Chief is a red (or standard) wheat. Both are excellent for baking, including bread. I've noticed that since I've been baking more of our breads, and most of them are made with these wheats, I've not had as many old-age joint aches as with standard grocery store bread. Could be my imagination, too, but the bread tastes good, bakes up nice, the bulk flour costs less, and I'm happy.  I just can't live without my bread.
> 
> 
> Hi, and welcome to DC, *greedygut*. Like *Craig*, I'm not a fan of internet personalities that register high on a quackery scale.  (Dr. Axe - Media Bias/Fact Check) I'm also a member of the "all things in moderation" club.



I am not promoting any internet celebrity. I have heard about wheat and the danger of drying process which means some of the undesirable traces of roundup go straight to the supermarket shelves with wheat flour.  Thank you for all responses.


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## Cooking Goddess (Dec 9, 2018)

I didn't think you were "promoting" him, *greedygut*. It seems like he does a good job of that by himself.  I'm just wary, personally, of anyone who advocates a program that stresses "must do this" and "must avoid that". ~  You probably want to look for flours that have been grown in a sustainable manner. Maybe find those flours with organic certification - although there are organic fertilizers and crop products than have their own set of issues. Since you're in the Essex in the U.K. rather than the U.S., you probably won't happen upon an Amish bulk store. Flour is not a cheap commodity when it comes to shipping, so good luck finding a wholesome wheat product that works for you and which you are confident about. If you do a search for glyphosate free wheat flour you may be able to find brands that are available near you.


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## luvs (Dec 9, 2018)

i buy bread, be that 12-grain; be that bread via an actual shelf- others bond w/ various sammiches--


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## GotGarlic (Dec 9, 2018)

greedygut said:


> I am not promoting any internet celebrity. I have heard about wheat and the danger of drying process which means some of the undesirable traces of roundup go straight to the supermarket shelves with wheat flour.  Thank you for all responses.


This is from a comprehensive review by a cell biologist, which is extensively cited, of the questions people have about glyphosate (the active ingredient in Roundup). The entire series is worth a read if you're concerned about glyphosate.



> The major breakdown product of glyphosate is aminomethylphosphonic acid (AMPA), which has been found to have similarly low profile of toxicity as glyphosate according to the*report from Food and Agricultural Organisation*of the WHO. One*review from 2000*has looked at both glyphosate, the surfactant POEA, and AMPA specifically. They conclude:
> 
> The oral absorption of glyphosate and AMPA is low, and both materials are eliminated essentially unmetabolized. Dermal penetration studies with Roundup showed very low absorption. Experimental evidence has shown that neither glyphosate nor AMPA bioaccumulates in any animal tissue. No significant toxicity occurred in acute, subchronic, and chronic studies.*[…]
> 
> ...



https://thoughtscapism.com/2016/09/07/2-3-glyphosate-and-health-effects-a-z/


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## GotGarlic (Dec 9, 2018)

Cooking Goddess said:


> Hi, and welcome to DC, *greedygut*. Like *Craig*, I'm not a fan of internet personalities that register high on a quackery scale.  (Dr. Axe - Media Bias/Fact Check) I'm also a member of the "all things in moderation" club. I feel that as long as you do not have a medical condition that requires you to eliminate a certain food, our bodies work best when they have a variety of good quality foods.



Thanks for mentioning that site, CG. It looks very useful.


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## tenspeed (Dec 9, 2018)

I'm not on the organic bandwagon.  Here's an interesting read about organic farming from a reputable source:

https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...101-organic-farming-conventional-agriculture/

  I make some of my own bread (no knead and baguettes), pizza dough, and pasta.  I haven't seen any evidence from a credible source that a reasonable amount of bread, pasta, etc. is harmful to a healthy and active person.  I use King Arthur AP or bread flour, depending upon what I'm making.

  I didn't watch the Dr. Axe video.  When I see "healing foods" it's a red flag that a snake oil sales pitch is coming.  You need a healthy lifestyle (eating and exercise habits), as there are no magic bullets.


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## pepperhead212 (Dec 9, 2018)

Here's a coincidence - Dr Axe has a show on my PBS station today: Leaky gut syndrome - what foods to eat and to avoid, and what supplements can help.

I'm not a gambler, but I'd be willing to bet that he has some sort of stock in those supplement companies.

*cooking goddess*  There are two Amish markets in my area, and this is where I get many of my baking goods.  I was just there last weekend, as I had run out of dark rye flour (almost never happens!).  They have all sorts of things, whole grain and ground, and this is where I first saw that rolled barley, which I use in place of oats in some of my cookies.


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## rodentraiser (Dec 10, 2018)

You know, they also sell wheat in cans. If you can find an organic wheat and get a hand held grist mill (I think that's what they're called), you can grind your own wheat into flour. 

Mother Earth magazine had a huge article on that one time but it's been so long since I read it, I don't remember everything that was in it. It just came back to mind a couple years back when I was volunteering at a food bank and they got in a couple pounds of wheat to give out.


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## greedygut (Dec 10, 2018)

Thank you to all.


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