# Bone broth



## kamp (Oct 6, 2009)

I have read a couple of topics about bone broth. Some places it says it needs to be boiled 4 hours and other 12 hours. 
Isn't it right that longer it boild that more nutrient it gets?

Can I make bone broth in my pressure cooker? Will I still get all the minerals and vitamins out of the bone? How long will I need to cook it?


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## Andy M. (Oct 6, 2009)

How long you simmer bones to make a stock depends on the size of the bones.  For smaller bones like chicken, turkey and duck, 3-6 hours is adequate.  For larger bones such as beef, 12 hours is normal.


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## bethzaring (Oct 6, 2009)

does any one make a broth or stock from lamb bones?


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## ChefToddMohr (Oct 6, 2009)

Flavorful stocks are always made from the bones of animals because of the collagen they contain.  Through cooking, collagen is converted to gelatin and water, giving a stock it's texture and richness.

The difference between a stock and a broth is that you make a stock from bones, you buy a broth at the grocery store.

There is so much more to stock making than simply the amount of time you spend simmering the bones.  Firstly, never BOIL a stock, always a soft simmer.  Boiling will cause many of the impurities to be suspended in the liquid, giving you a cloudy stock.

Always start stock with cold water.  Cold water will allow the impurities to congeel and can be skimmed from the top of the stock during cooking.  Hot water will dissolve the impurities, giving a cloudy stock.

Stocks should be strained and chilled as quickly as possible.  After running your finished stock through a cheese cloth, it should go in a container that's set in an ice-bath.  The quicker you cool the stock, the more fat will float to the top to be skimmed away.

If you're making a white stock, like chicken, 3-4 hours is certainly sufficient.  If you're making a brown stock, the bones and flavoring agents should be browned in the oven first to caramelize sugars and give that brown color.

Stock making is a delicate process and has a lot more to it than just cooking times.


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## kamp (Oct 6, 2009)

But is it okey to make it in the pressure cooker?


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## ChefToddMohr (Oct 6, 2009)

No, you cannot make a stock in a pressure cooker.  The whole idea in broth making is the evaporation of the liquid to condense flavors.  Pressure cooker will not allow for evaporation.


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## kamp (Oct 6, 2009)

Okey. 
I did try yeasterday and it had a lot of flavor but if it don't contains all the minerals it is not good.


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## Wyogal (Oct 6, 2009)

Broth: "a flavorful liquid obtained from the simmering of meats or vegetables"
Gisslen, p. 206
Stock is made from simmering the bones. p. 209


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## golithii (Oct 6, 2009)

*no boil*

My daughter found me a nice cookbook only about making broths and sauces.  The highest quality stock comes from NOT boiling, as mentioned previously.  That means that a pressure cooker is out is you want the best stock.  Slowly simmering is the key.

My book would suggest that ChefToddMohr knows what he is talking about.


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## kamp (Oct 6, 2009)

But will the broth still contain calcium, minerals ++ if I do make it in the pressure cooker?


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## sparrowgrass (Oct 6, 2009)

You most certainly can make stock in the pressure cooker, and it is clear, flavorful and lovely.

No skimming necessary, just put your bones/chicken pieces, carrots, celery, onions into the cooker, put the lid on, and cook it for an hour. 

If you want to reduce the stock, strain it and return to the boil until it is reduced in volume.  

Kamp, if you are looking to extract minerals from the bones, add a tablespoon or two of vinegar to the pot--you won't taste it, but it will help pull the calcium out of the bones.


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## kamp (Oct 6, 2009)

I will add a couple of apple cider vinegar  
I can not use "normal" vinegar because I am on SCD diet.

www.scdandme.com


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## Wyogal (Oct 6, 2009)

and Gisslen doesn't? sheesh...


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## kamp (Oct 6, 2009)

Wyogal said:


> and Gisslen doesn't? sheesh...



I don't now what gisslen is.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Oct 6, 2009)

Stock can be made in a pressure cooker just fine.  The higher pressure causes the bone to break down faster and the inside goodies to leach out more quickly.  Tip, crack all bones so that the marrow is exposed.  Collagen comes from connecting tissues, bone marrow, and cartillage.  It is a cousin to protien and has similar helath benefits.  Using cider vinager is a good way to dissolve the minerals from the bones.  But only use a little as you don't want to impart a sour flavor.  Acidic veggies, such as celery, cooked with the bones also helps leach out the nutrients.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Wyogal (Oct 6, 2009)

I gave the definition for "broth" and "stock" from the cookbook, Professional Cooking, by Wayne Gisslen. It is used by cooking schools, most notably Le Cordon Bleu.
again, one can make a broth at home (you don't have to buy it at a store), it is made by simmering meat and/or vegetables, whereas a stock is made by simmering the bones.


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## kamp (Oct 6, 2009)

Wyogal said:


> I gave the definition for "broth" and "stock" from the cookbook, Professional Cooking, by Wayne Gisslen. It is used by cooking schools, most notably Le Cordon Bleu.
> again, one can make a broth at home (you don't have to buy it at a store), it is made by simmering meat and/or vegetables, whereas a stock is made by simmering the bones.



Thank you for the explanation.


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## Wyogal (Oct 6, 2009)

No problem... I roast the bones and vegetables (carrot, onion, celery), before I put them in a stock pot to simmer.


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## GB (Oct 6, 2009)

ChefToddMohr said:


> No, you cannot make a stock in a pressure cooker.  The whole idea in broth making is the evaporation of the liquid to condense flavors.


In the first sentence you talk about stock, but in the second you talk about broth. 

Stock can certainly be made in a pressure cooker. The whole idea behind making stock is not evaporation. The whole idea is collagen. If you want to reduce the stock you can always do that after the fact. No reason you can't use a pressure cooker to actually cook the stock and release the collagen.


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## kamp (Oct 6, 2009)

I get a bit confused.. I try to remember the difference between stock/broth but I mix them. But I am starting to learn after reading all this post. 

I think it is bone broth I want to make. I need gelatin and minerals for my leaky gut.


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## Wyogal (Oct 6, 2009)

This is what I start with:


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## ChefToddMohr (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm not sure why you're hung up on calcium and minerals.  I don't think you get calcium from stock, just because drinking milk provides calcium to your bones.  I'm not a doctor, but I don't think it works the other way around.  If you boil bones, you get calcium-rich stock.  As for minerals, they are in your water.  Nutrients like vitamins are usually destroyed the longer you cook something.

The main object of your stock is rich flavor and texture.  Your vitamins and minerals can be gotten from the fresh vegetables you add to the stock or your finished dish.

But no, DO NOT MAKE STOCK IN A PRESSURE COOKER.  The purpose of a pressure cooker is to raise the boiling point of water to cook under a higher moist temperature than 212F / 100C.  As stated earlier, this is much too high a temperature, and too violent a cooking method to result in a clear, ungreasy stock.


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## kamp (Oct 6, 2009)

I am hung up in calcium because I can not have dairy. 

I am intolerant to many food and I only eat 3 types of vegetables and lean meat/fish. Thats way I need all the nutrient I can get. 
Broth is Beautiful


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## jennyema (Oct 6, 2009)

I agree with *ChefTodd*.  And *golithii*

The fat emulsifies if you boil your stock/broth. And once that happens you can't undo it. 

Making it in a pressure cooker will make for a greasy stock.

If that doesn't bother you (it does me), then go for it.

If it does, simmer your liquid and don't boil or use a PC.

Do you take supplements?


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## kamp (Oct 6, 2009)

jennyema said:


> I agree with *ChefTodd*.  And *golithii*
> 
> The fat emulsifies if you boil your stock/broth. And once that happens you can't undo it.
> 
> ...



I have just started with calcium and vitamin D. The next week I also hope to start with selen and zinc.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Oct 7, 2009)

My Dad made New England Boiled Dinner in a pressure cooker, with venison.    There was so much grease on top of the broth that he had to skim it off.  To emulsify grease, you have to have an emulsifying agent, like a base, or mustard, or egg yolk.  The grease droplets will be made smaller.  That is true.  But it is still lighter than is the water, and doesn't combine with it.  It floats to the top.  And as for broths, they don't need to be clear.  That's consume', and there are techniques used to make it clear.  Broths must be rich in flavor and texture.  And the nutrients from the inner parts of the bone do come out into the broth.  Not all nutrients are damaged by heat.  And in fact, in vegetables such as spinach, the nutrients aren't even available to the body until the spinach is cooked.  Lima beans are poisonous until boiled.  Many foods are actually more nutritionally sound after cooking.  Son't take my word for it.  Talk to a qualified nutritionist.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## jennyema (Oct 7, 2009)

Goodweed of the North said:


> To emulsify grease, you have to have an emulsifying agent, like a base, or mustard, or egg yolk.


 

It is also quite possible to emulsify fat and water mechanically -- without an agent --  which happens when you whisk salad dressing or boil stock.


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## kamp (Oct 7, 2009)

Today I made bone broth on with the "normal" pot. 
I was trying to only let it simmer but on my oven it was not possible to set it between 2 and 0 so i did boil a couple of times. But the bone broth now is like jello


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## Wyogal (Oct 7, 2009)

"bone broth" is called stock, broth is made by simmering pieces of meat or vegetables. Stock is made from bones.
If it's like "jello," GREAT!


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## kamp (Oct 7, 2009)

Sorry 
I'm just a autistic tenager trying to make the "bone broth" this bone broth recipe Recipes on intro diet.


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## Wyogal (Oct 7, 2009)

no problem, it just helps to clarify the issue when terms are used correctly.
I love your posts and enjoy hearing about your cooking!!


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## GB (Oct 7, 2009)

kamp said:


> Today I made bone broth on with the "normal" pot.
> I was trying to only let it simmer but on my oven it was not possible to set it between 2 and 0 so i did boil a couple of times. But the bone broth now is like jello


If it is like jello then you did it right


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## kamp (Oct 7, 2009)

I am going to bed now but I will try to write all the post again tomorrow and understand it.


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## powerplantop (Oct 8, 2009)

Kamp,

This is a photo of some stock that I made about two weeks ago. I made it using a Korean method. This was boiled for a few hours. It is not greasy and the milky color comes from the minerals leached out of the bones. I then cooked some noodles in it and it was great. 









To make stock this way take your bones and soak them in cold water for one hour. Drain the water and replace with cold water. Soak for one more hour drain. 

Add water again and place on high heat. When it starts to boil start timming. After 20 to 30 minutes pour out water and wash the bones. What you have done is removed the blood from the bones. Now put the bones back on high heat with clean watter and boil for several hours. As your water level goes down add more just keep the bones covered. You will see foam and grease come to the top just keep skimming that off and throw it away. 

I have two vids that show me using this meathod.

YouTube - Ggori Gomtang 꼬리곰탕 Korean Ox tail soup

YouTube - Terrine of Pork pyeonyuk 편육


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