# I need advice on dutch oven for making crusty bread



## pacanis (Mar 2, 2008)

I just went into the basement to dig out my CI Dutch Oven and it's rusty inside and out to the point I would have to wire brush it and re-season it.
My crusty bread is going to be ready to pop in the oven around 4 PM.
What am I going to use?

I've got some large TFal pots, but they have plastic handles on them.
I've got a SS pasta pot (looks like a stock pot I guess) with a glass lid with a small hole in it.

Aren't DOs supposed to be on the heavy side, even if it isn't a traditional CI DO? Do you think I could get by by lining my DO with foil and setting the dough on parchment paper?
Maybe I have time to re-season it if I get a move on... even though it will never be the same from all those years of using it..... 

Sorry if this should be under cookware instead....

I can't believe this


----------



## auntieshelly (Mar 2, 2008)

Hi Pacanis ~  Sorry about your Dutch Oven.  I have a question -- Why do you need a Dutch Oven to bake bread?  I always put mine on a baking stone or on a baking sheet.  It turns out crusty and delicious.  Maybe, I'm not understanding the type of bread you are baking -- does it absolutely have to be cooked in a Dutch Oven?  Good Luck!!


----------



## Katie H (Mar 2, 2008)

You need a heavy, dense pot to bake the bread in, pacanis.  Yes, if you hurry you could use your DO.  Just line it with foil so that some of the new seasoning and/or rust doesn't get on the bread.  Actually, if you don't have the time to season it, just line it with foil.

The stainless steel pot won't have enough mass to bake the bread the way it needs to be baked.

I've used my Le Creuset cookware (sans the knob) to make the type of bread (I suspect N.Y. Times) and have had excellent results.  Again, LC is enamel-coated iron, so the mass is there.

Best of luck.  Don't you just love it when you're thrown a curve in the middle of a project?


----------



## pacanis (Mar 2, 2008)

Thanks for answering back.
Maybe it doesn't...... I just read through the instructions and it just says heavy, covered pot.  For some reason I was under the impression it had to be a Do... maybe I read it in someone's post.
So I could use a glass covered "casserole" dish?


----------



## pacanis (Mar 2, 2008)

Katie E said:


> Don't you just love it when you're thrown a curve in the middle of a project?


 

*NOOOO *

Now I can't find my wire brush......
Off to the hardware store.


----------



## Katie H (Mar 2, 2008)

If it's the N.Y. Times recipe, don't worry.  The dough can handle plenty of abuse.  It isn't unusual for me to let mine sit for almost 22 hours before I start the second stage.  It's very forgiving.


----------



## Uncle Bob (Mar 2, 2008)

Clean up and re-season your CI Pot regardless!! So next time......


----------



## pacanis (Mar 2, 2008)

Being done as we speak, Uncle Bob.
I've got 12 qts of cone brade in their baking right now ..... 

I didn't realize how rusty some of my stuff has gotten.  Must be because I store HCL caplets down there, though they are in a plastic container..... and I can't smell chlorine... My welding jacket, which was sitting on top of the boxes of HCL fell right apart, but I got one last use out of it.

I wired brushed the heck out of the dutch oven and got the coal miner's face to prove it. Cried the whole time I had to take a good layer of seasoning off. sniff.


----------



## LadyCook61 (Mar 2, 2008)

Katie E said:


> If it's the N.Y. Times recipe, don't worry. The dough can handle plenty of abuse. It isn't unusual for me to let mine sit for almost 22 hours before I start the second stage. It's very forgiving.


yes it is forgiving . First time I ever made the dough it sat 23 hrs , we had gone shopping and didn't get back til late.


----------



## LadyCook61 (Mar 2, 2008)

auntieshelly said:


> Hi Pacanis ~ Sorry about your Dutch Oven. I have a question -- Why do you need a Dutch Oven to bake bread? I always put mine on a baking stone or on a baking sheet. It turns out crusty and delicious. Maybe, I'm not understanding the type of bread you are baking -- does it absolutely have to be cooked in a Dutch Oven? Good Luck!!


 the ny times recipes specified DO. Another recipe specifies stone. I used both recipes with their respective methods with success.


----------



## pacanis (Mar 2, 2008)

Oh, and thanks for letting me know I have a little extra time with the dough!


----------



## pacanis (Mar 2, 2008)

Mods, if possible, please change subject to crusty bread fiasco

OK. A picture is worth a thousand words.....
How do I shape _this_ into a ball? Or by ball, do they really mean goopy mess?
The stuff is like trying to pick up Jello  That sticks to everything


----------



## Katie H (Mar 2, 2008)

The dough is perfect, pacanis.  Does it have to "rest" now?  If so, before you place it on a sheet to let it rest, put some parchment paper on the sheet.  Then all you will have to do when it's time to put the dough into the hot pan, just lift the parchment up, like a sling, and put it all (parchment, too) into the pan.  It will make it much easier to get the dough IN and OUT after baking.

Hang in there.


----------



## pacanis (Mar 2, 2008)

It's due for a two hour rest now, but too late on the paper idea. I was already getting too far beyond the 15 other period....
So in other words, the dough _can't_ be shaped into a ball? Why the h did the recipe say that then? Geez....

The spice shaker was a great idea! I was trying to use a large spoon with holes in it. I found it worked better if I didn't scoop as much.

So here it is, what's left of it. The "ball". A lot went down the drain (and I guess dough clogs a slow drain) and a lot stayed on the counter, but I'm hanging in there.
Better start on my breadmachine loaf now just in case...


----------



## pacanis (Mar 2, 2008)

I got my counter clean again. It had to be scraped with a knife. That dough is some tough stuff after it dries.
The ball is looking like a calzone and about ready for me to flip it into the DO. Seam side down I guess, but beats me where the seam is.... so I'm sure some side will be down 
I'm starting to get excited. I can't believe something done so haphazardly can come out so good.


----------



## Katie H (Mar 2, 2008)

Just plop in into the pan, pacanis.  You don't have to worry about a seam.  The loaf may take on an irregular shape, but that's part of the charm of this bread.  A little like fingerprints.  No two are alike.


----------



## pacanis (Mar 2, 2008)

Thanks again for riding alongside of me for this one, Katie. This thing has almost found a home in the 13 gal file a few times....

And here it is. Plopped into the Dutch oven. The "ball".
I have to wonder if all that coating I was supposed to "generously use" should have been blown or brushed off first...  The directions didn't say to, so I didn't!


----------



## Katie H (Mar 2, 2008)

No, you didn't have to brush anything off.  It'll just get a little "toasted" during baking.

Sometimes the first effort is an immense learning curve.  You learn little tricks on your own and gain information from others.  Next time will be different and...better.


----------



## pacanis (Mar 3, 2008)

Might as well put the finished product up here.
It was good. It had to be torn because the crust was impervious to normal cutting strokes with a bread knife. I know, most people tear bread and rolls, I like to cut them . It didn't seem to hold butter very well. I think if it was higher and not so flat I would have had a better inside surface for buttering. And I couldn't _use_ it very well when eating my stew.... the hard crust prevented me from sopping up the stew gravy with the soft part of the bread. I just couldn't press it into the plate all that well. I think this would be better as a dipping bread. Or serve the stew in a bowl next time.
But, bottom line..... I'll make it again. After I go through that monster thread to pick up some tips 
BTW, I don't like learning curves, Katie. I like to follow instructions/recipes that have everything come out the way they are describing... as if you couldn't sense my frustration


----------



## Katie H (Mar 3, 2008)

That's okay, pacanis.  We're all different.  That's what makes the world go around.  BTW the crust is supposed to be very "crusty," if you understand what I mean.


----------



## pacanis (Mar 3, 2008)

I just had a couple pieces with lunch.  Upon further inspection, I think I went overboard on the "generous" amount of cornbread meal I used on it during its last phase, but that all knocks off anyway. I liked it better the second time around because the crust was soft and chewy and not hard and crunchy.  I don't mind a thick crust, but I don't like a hard crust. BTW, it was room temp and not heated.
I need to find a way to make it where it isn't so messy.


----------



## subfuscpersona (Mar 5, 2008)

*NYT bread - Step By Step Instructions With Photos*

see this post on how to shape the NYT bread (or similar recipes)
 Step By Step Instructions With Photos - includes photos of shaping process


----------



## pacanis (Mar 5, 2008)

That is too cool
Thank you very much.
Although mine didn't exactly plop out the first time out of the bowl... it had to be pealed out. I must have done something wrong when mixing the ingredients.. maybe I mixed them too well.
Anyway, Round 2 is still on the not so distant horizon and I'll follow this recipe instead.


----------



## oldcampcook (Mar 5, 2008)

Just to add to your frustration, where she says you have to have the oven preheated, I also do that recipe from a cold oven. You might need to check to see how long it actually takes your oven to reach the 450°F. You will need to add that time to the baking time.
I like to do it with a cold start because it eliminates some of the danger of messing with a preheated baking container. And I find that the resulting breads are similar.
And please take a look at the great videos at Bread Baking Instructional Videos and Baking Supplies..
You need to bake the last 15 mins uncovered to get a good brown, crips top crust.
My one problem in baking in my cast iron Dutch Oven was that the bottom was getting somewhat burned. I now use a baking sheet upside down under the DO.  Seems to give it an air cushion.


----------



## pacanis (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks OCC.  Every little bit helps.  I never paid attention to anything being baked as a kid, so trying to read directions and compare what they are saying to what I'm actually getting is really stretching it for me.


----------



## jennyema (Mar 5, 2008)

Yeah!

From what I can tell you did everything right.  Except maybe the cornmeal.  Just toss some on the bottom of the dutch oven next time.

The dough has a very fluid consistency and it's hard to form it into a ball.  I usually have to add some more flour and then "stretch" the top, tucking the dough under the sides as I go.  Sorry if that doesn't make sense.

Then I just plop it into the hot LC french oven.  I've sized down my baking vessel so that the bread rises higher.

A somewhat hard crust and open holes in the bread are the hallmarks of this particular kind of bread and are what makes it so good -- that and the long rise which really gives the bread great flavor.

You can easily cut it with a bread knife, too.

*Congratulations* and I hope you make another loaf again soon!


----------



## pacanis (Mar 5, 2008)

jennyema said:


> *Congratulations* and I hope you make another loaf again soon!


 
Oh, heck yeah.  My DO is still setting out.  I didn't go through all that to put it away again anytime soon.
And armed with a little more knowledge..... I can be 5x as dangerous!


----------



## sparrowgrass (Mar 6, 2008)

I came into this thread late, so my advice isn't worth much.  I bake my NYT bread in a pyrex casserole, which I preheat in the oven.  Works great.

(I am a volunteer with a local humane society, and we do bake sale fundraisers all the time.  I make 10 or 12 loaves of bread each time, and they all sell out.  I sprinkle them with Italian seasoning or Herbes de Provence before baking.)


----------



## LadyCook61 (Mar 6, 2008)

sparrowgrass said:


> I came into this thread late, so my advice isn't worth much. I bake my NYT bread in a pyrex casserole, which I preheat in the oven. Works great.
> 
> (I am a volunteer with a local humane society, and we do bake sale fundraisers all the time. I make 10 or 12 loaves of bread each time, and they all sell out. I sprinkle them with Italian seasoning or Herbes de Provence before baking.)


that is a good idea about sprinkling herbs!  thanks for sharing.


----------



## pacanis (Mar 6, 2008)

I was going to say the same thing about the herbs!


----------

