# You think we pay too much for gas?



## corazon (Apr 28, 2006)

Britain is paying almost $7 a gallon!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12521203/

What would you all do if gas was that high?

We have Toyota 4runner.  Right now it costs about $50 to fill up.  I don't know if we'd be able to sell it for much.  I suppose dh would sell his motorcycle and we'd buy a gas friendly car.  I couldn't see taking the bus with our kids so young.


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## marmalady (Apr 28, 2006)

In answer to your topic question - yes.  And w/out getting into politics, that's all I'll say!  

I drive a Subaru Forester, and just filled up for $35 - most it's ever cost.  Hubbie drives an old Ford Ranger, it's about $50 for a fillup.


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## AlexR (Apr 28, 2006)

Yes.

The oil companies are a bunch of fat cats who are taking us for a ride (take a look at their profits!!!) with the complicity of governments.

Half of the oil-producing countries have formed a cartel (OPEC), and even if they weren't out to earn the most money, thier production potential is practically is presently working at full capacity.

And, let's not forget taxes in all this. Where I live (France) ***82%*** of what I pay at a service station goes to the state.

Best regards,
Alex R.


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## CharlieD (Apr 28, 2006)

The gas in Europe is very expensive, but also they do not drive as much as we do and probably can get away without driving alltohether. Publick transportation there is good enough to get anywhere within resonable time and convinience. Having spent time in Austria and Italy I have never had to warry about not having car.


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## cats (Apr 28, 2006)

Totally agree with Alex. Gas prices are outrageous and oil company profits are obscene. Apparently, there is no accounting for what they can and do charge. Bush, et al, are a bunch of oil men so what do they care about this anyhow? Now, I hear on the news, that our brilliant minds in Bush's administration are suggesting/considering giving everyone a $100 gas "rebate" or whatever they want to call it. How dumb is that? The cost to process such a procedure would be huge and, for most families, the measly $100 wouldn't go very far. For some families, with these prices per gallon, just the expense of getting to and fro work can be nearly as much as their home mortages. If a family is living on a tight budget and there is truly no extra money, how are they supposed to afford the high gas prices? I feel the most empathy for them and it appears no one in government cares one iota. Well, as you can all probably see, I'm totally disgusted about this issue.


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## CharlieD (Apr 28, 2006)

Yes and lets not forget to thank President Clinton for giving oil companies great exuse for rasing prices, by not building the refineries. The profits are indeed huge, but if you look into numbers by comparacing the Exon for example is made 7% more this year than last year. That is not that much, compare how much price of gas went up. We should have been driling in Alaska 10 years ago. 
Now having said that I completely agree that goverment is not doing enough now to help the situation.


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## GB (Apr 28, 2006)

Hi everyone. This is your friendly Admin giving you a friendly reminder to keep politics out of our conversations please.

Thank you


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## CharlieD (Apr 28, 2006)

Neah, GB, it is nor politicks. It is our goverment that has not done anything about this problem starting from about 3-4 decades ago. Both side of the aile are at fault. Everybody knows that oil is not an unlimited resource, everybody knew it would come to this sooner or latter and to develope a solution for such a massive problem it takse decades of research, but nothing was ever done. i don't blame anybody in particular, I blame them all together.


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## GB (Apr 28, 2006)

Wether we play the blame game or not, this forum has a strict no politics policy. I do not want to remove this thread as it is a valuable topic that can be discussed, but we need to discuss it without bringing Bush, Clinton, or any other political discussions into it.


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## ronjohn55 (Apr 28, 2006)

Hopefully this little observation will be considered a politics free post  

In the past year in Michigan, gas has been firmly entrenched at over $2.00 a gallon. Why do I bring this up? I bring it up because for all the screaming and crying about the end of the world $3.00 a gallon will supposedly bring, it's the *same* screaming and crying about the end of the world that $2.20 brought, and $2.50, and $2.75...

And yet, here we are, a year later, and there are as many big trucks on the road as there were a year ago. There are as many cars overall as well. Why do I bring *this *up? Because in the past year, based on my unscientific observations, the general public in Michigan - faced with the end of the world according to them, has apparently done *nothing* to attempt to lower their fuel intake, all while gas prices have continued to climb. 

Maybe it's not the end of the world after all?  

Although now I have that REM song stuck in my head!!!  ARRRGH!!!!

John


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## Andy M. (Apr 28, 2006)

My answer is, "Yes".  We are being charged too much for gas.  How much gas costs in other countries is not relevant to our situation, especially if the difference is in taxes.

It angers me that gas prices are at or near an all-time high and at the very same time the oil companies announce record profits.  Then the calmly blame the hight prices on the price of oil or the conversion to ethanol, or switching from cold to warm weather formulas...  Anything to hide the truth!

Recognizing that this is a free enterprise society and they get to charge what ever they want, a consumer boycott is the only action that will have any effect.  Unfortunately, we are a mobile society with population spread out over a very large area.  We cannot do without the auto.  We can only cut back minimally.  What are you going to do, drive half way to work to save gas?

I'm angry and frustrated that the oil companies know all this and take advantage of the situation to make their profits.


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## Lizannd (Apr 28, 2006)

*Yes many people are now driving half way to work.  The*

park and ride service our bus company has is seeing a big increase in riders. The bus stops at stores or malls who have large parking lots and people drive to those bus stops, park their cars there free for the day and save lots of gas and also the parking fees we have to pay close to work. This really helps the people who live off the bus routes. The routes from these park and ride sites are usually express routes to downtown so they are usually really quick.


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## Robo410 (Apr 28, 2006)

I ain't happy about the price of gas, fuel oil, etc.  I ain't happy about a lot of things.  But, at 22, back in 1978, me and my firstus car...gas just topped at a buck.  At that cost and my salary then...gas would need to be over $8 a gal to equal the same ratio.  I betcha a lot of us can make that kinda figurin'


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## ps8 (Apr 28, 2006)

I don’t know if we’re paying too much, but I do know I don’t _like_ paying so much.  But I don’t like paying $3 for a gallon of milk either.  I’m not comparing the two, simply stating I don’t like paying high prices for anything!  My personal opinion is that us consumers are just as much to blame for the situation we’re in as any government or company.  The companies have known for a long time that our oil supplies are a limited resource – but _so have we!  _What have we, as everyday people, done about it?  Well, the majority of us complain to our family and friends that the prices are too high, that the companies and governments should be, and should have been doing something to guard against this day.  However, when it’s time to run to the grocery store that’s less than a mile away, what do we do?  Most of us hop in our car and drive to the store instead of walking or biking.  What about taking the kids to school?  Are they taken or do they walk?  Mostly, they are driven because Junior doesn’t want to walk  What about when our little Susie is invited to her friend’s house that’s 5 or 6 blocks away?  Is she told to ride her bike?  What about work?  Do we carpool?  No, it’s too inconvenient.  I’d have to go and leave at the same time as the group or the driver.  I couldn’t run my errands during lunch if I rode with someone else.  But people used to walk to the store, Junior used to walk to school, Susie used to ride her bike to her friend's, employees used to carpool.  If we, as consumers, began doing the little things that, by themselves don’t amount to much, but all together added up, wouldn’t that send some sort of message to the companies?  At the very least, it would show that _we_ are concerned about our future!  It isn’t the complete answer, but it is part of the answer.  At least that’s what I believe.  After all, should there be higher expectations for companies or governments than there are for ourselves?


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## ronjohn55 (Apr 28, 2006)

Robo410 said:
			
		

> ...gas would need to be over $8 a gal to equal the same ratio. I betcha a lot of us can make that kinda figurin'


 
Careful Robo, don't want to give any gas stations or oil companies any ideas!  

John


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## GB (Apr 28, 2006)

ps8 I respectfully disagree with a lot of what you are saying. I see a ton of carpooling going on. In a lot of places it is simply not safe to let kids walk to school. I certainly will not let my young child walk 6 blocks down the street (once she is old enough to do so of course) because of all the predators out there. Times have changed. It used to be a lot safer for kids to be out alone, but that is not the case anymore. I am also not letting my kid walk to school when they have major roads they would have to cross. Their safety is more important and conserving gas to me.

As far as walking or taking a bike to the store, that might work if you just just going down to pick up a gallon of milk, but most people I know walk out of the supermarket with a trunk load of stuff. There is no way that would fit on a bike or be able to be carried while walking.


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## Lizannd (Apr 28, 2006)

*But since we should all get a daily walk maybe we should walk*

to the grocery store more than once a week to do our shopping.  And if all of the 12 kids on my block walked to school TOGETHER it would be safer.  And when they met up with the 20 kids from the other three sides of the block there would be quite a group all walking TOGETHER.  The older kids could be told to keep an eye on their younger siblings and all the other younger kids.   This type of responsibility used to be second nature when I was growing up.  It didn't seem to be a problem when my son was growing up.  While I realize that not every neighborhood is within walking distance to the elementary school some are and there is no reason that high school kids need to be driven 2 or 3 blocks to school.


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## GB (Apr 28, 2006)

Lizannd said:
			
		

> The older kids could be told to keep an eye on their younger siblings and all the other younger kids.   This type of responsibility used to be second nature when I was growing up.


I understand what you are saying, but there is no way i am going to place that responsibility on a child. My childs saftey is my (and my wifes) responsibility and ours alone. I do not know the other kids in the neigborhood and I am not going to trust them to look after the welfare of my young child. Are they going to be the one to make sure my kid looks both ways when crossing the road? Why would we think they would even do a good job at watching after the younger ones?


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## CharlieD (Apr 28, 2006)

I don't know about walking. The closest school is about 3 or so miles away, in our friendly Minnesota weather I would not recommend anybody to walk that far. And as far as my own kids, their school is 10 miles away, closest grocery 5 miles away. When we lived down town, we walked everywhere and had only one car. Today I work 20 miles away and would have to take 3 different buses to get to my work and even then, the bus stop is about a mile away.


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## RMS (Apr 28, 2006)

Just wanted to comment on the fact that we are politics free here!  I'm glad!  I've seen too many arguments start over politics.
As far as gas prices are concerned, they are getting ridiculous.  I feel bad for myself but feel worse for my son who is just trying to get a life on his own started.  His latest raise has been completely eaten up by the increase in gas prices.  How are the young people supposed to get their own homes while paying exhorbitant amounts for fuel?


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## ps8 (Apr 28, 2006)

GB, love your feedback and mostly agree with you.  And yet, I still stick by what I said.  Please don’t think I would ever put conserving gas above the safety of my children or anyone else’s, for that matter.  I’m not talking about this being an either/or situation, though.  The age and abilities of the child, the busyness of the streets involved, how safe the area is – naturally, all of these are factors that must be considered when making the decision to let your child walk or bike to school or anywhere.  
 
As for grocery shopping, I was more thinking about those trips where only a few items are needed.  No one could convince me to walk to the store on my big grocery shopping day!  But I should walk or bike to the store on the day after when it occurs to me that I forgot to purchase the loaf of bread and can of tomatoes.
 
Yes, there are people who carpool and ride buses or commuter trains.  Nevertheless, I still believe that many more could but don’t due to the perceived inconvenience 
 
I still contend that there are plenty of opportunities for kids and adults alike to walk instead of drive; however, driving is the most common choice.


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## GB (Apr 28, 2006)

Yes you are probably right ps8


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## ps8 (Apr 28, 2006)

Let me clarify that I am only talking about those situations where one is within walking distance to the school, store or whatever.  Obviously, there are those who live too far away to walk anywhere but to their mail box!  No problem!  Not referring to you.  Whew!  I feel better.  I love discussions!!


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## Buttercup (Apr 28, 2006)

Anyone else have a motorhome?


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## corazon (Apr 28, 2006)

Wow!  This thread really took off!

I'd be happy walking places but we live at least 5 miles from a scketchy gas station.  Bellingham is 25 miles.  We were pushed out of living in town due to high real estate prices, we couldn't afford it.  Now we can't afford to live out here because of gas prices.  Catch 22


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## amber (Apr 28, 2006)

Fortunately I dont have to drive long distances so if our gas was $7 per gallon it wouldnt affect me much.  One thing I have done is figure out what I need to do for the day so that I dont make multiple trips to the same area of town.  I filled my car up today and it cost me $20, but it used to cost me only $10.  Yesterday our gas was $2.99, and today it actually went down to $2.93....so cheap


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## GarrettB (Apr 28, 2006)

Gas prices are certainly high, but they represent a contract, not a mandate.  Consumers engage in an agreement with a gas company to buy gasoline at a certain price that is acceptable.  And gasoline companies sell their product at a price that is agreeable to the consumer.  Of course, we're all mumbling and grumbling about the horrendously high prices, but we continue to purchase gasoline at our normal rates, or many of us are at any rate.  We're in many ways free not to purchase their product.  I understand this puts many people in dire straits, but there have been bigger, grander and more important political and economic shake ups in our brief history.  Buying a bus pass and dealing with the inconvenience is obnoxious, but its a small price to pay to afford superior living conditions.

When gas prices are high enough, and when the price becomes unacceptable to consumers, we'll turn to public transportation, bicycles and energy efficient cars.  But that will only be when the aforementioned contract is considered unacceptable by the buying end.


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## kimbaby (Apr 28, 2006)

hmmmm why don't they use the corn... seems pretty logical to me.I seen the special on 60 minutes, its kinda a back up plan in case we ever run out of"gas" any one else see this special???


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## ronjohn55 (Apr 28, 2006)

Kim,

While corn (ethanol) is getting a lot of media "play" these days, it isn't the answer that everyone is trying to make it out to be. 

It can help tremendously, but it does have some issues of it's own. 

The main problem is that unless they can refine the distillation process, it almost always takes more thermal energy to distill the alcohol than it will return. I'm sure that a means to make it more econmically viable can be found, it may just take some time. There's been tremendous progress in fuel ethanol in the last few years though, so there is some hope. 

The E85 blend currently on the market, ironically given it's name, yields roughly 15% LESS energy per gallon than gasoline does. And currently, because of the demand for ethanol for summer fuel blends, costs almost as much! (Good for farmers, bad for drivers!  )

John

John


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## GB (Apr 28, 2006)

GarrettB said:
			
		

> We're in many ways free not to purchase their product.  I understand this puts many people in dire straits


Well sure no one is sticking a gun to our heads and making us purchase gas, but like you said it will put many of us in dire straights if we do not, so I do not really agree that we are free to not purchase gas.

I have an hour commute into the office and an hour commute home. There is no way around this. My wife and I work at the same office so we ride together when we can, but this is not always feasible. Our parents are our day care and they live 30-45 minutes from both our house and our office so that is another added amount of time to our daily commutes. We certainly could not bike to any of these places. There are no trains or busses that can get us there either. If I want to keep my job and make money then I have no choice, but to pay whatever the gas station is charging.


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## BreezyCooking (Apr 28, 2006)

Yes, I know.  My friend in the UK laughs at me when I whine about the gas prices here - lol!


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## GarrettB (Apr 28, 2006)

Filled up my Galant for about thirty dollars the other day. My Parisian friend turns to me and says "Hey, good deal!".

"What?!"

"That'd cost about $75 where I come from"

Quite the international perspective.


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## Andy M. (Apr 28, 2006)

GarrettB said:
			
		

> ...Quite the international perspective.


 
...and they pay a lot less for Bordeaux and Burgundy wines that we do.  Prices in other countries are irrelevant to what's currently happening in this country.


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## GarrettB (Apr 28, 2006)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> Prices in other countries are irrelevant to what's currently happening in this country.


 
Of course they're relevant.  If not for reasons like globalization, integrated markets, global competition, comparative consumer awareness et. al then the price of gasoline in another country can at least make me feel a bit better about $3.00 per gallon, which will sway my vote and keep me from rioting in the street.

Seems pretty significant to me.


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## Andy M. (Apr 28, 2006)

So, as long as you're paying less than someone else, you feel good about?   

A good portion of the price of gasoline in European countries is taxes.  Their taxes are a lot higher than ours, making comparisons meaningless.

What's important is whether gas in this country is fairly priced, not how it compares to the prices in other countries.


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## Chef_Jimmy (Apr 28, 2006)

I think it sucks, but I try not to think about it and get rilled up, I've come to the conclusion that I HAVE to buy gas for whatever the price is, and there is nothing you or me can do about it. The more i think about it the madder i get, so i simply try to forget it. I think paying almost a hundred dollars a month for cable TV is rediculous, but i do it. Gas is something that is mandatory for the most part. If gas goes to $5 we are STILL going to buy it because we have no choice.


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## marmalady (Apr 28, 2006)

ronjohn55 said:
			
		

> Kim,
> 
> While corn (ethanol) is getting a lot of media "play" these days, it isn't the answer that everyone is trying to make it out to be.
> 
> ...


 

THERE it is!  Haven't read completely through all the threads, but am so glad you brought this up, John!  This is where we need to be putting our energy, resources and talent, in developing a usable alternative to oil  and gas - for so many reasons beyond just our pocketbooks!  I wish all the energy the media is paying on the OMG shock and awe of pump prices, and the heavy profits of the oil companies, would go into more reporting about sustainable alternatives energy sources.


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## marmalady (Apr 28, 2006)

marmalady said:
			
		

> THERE it is! Haven't read completely through all the threads, but am so glad you brought this up, John! This is where we need to be putting our energy, resources and talent, in developing a usable alternative to oil and gas - for so many reasons beyond just our pocketbooks! I wish all the energy the media is paying on the OMG shock and awe of pump prices, and the heavy profits of the oil companies, would go into more reporting about sustainable alternatives energy sources.


 
There was just a program  a few weeks ago on Discovery or something, about how Brazil has been using - I think - sugar cane for years and years as fuel.  And the byproducts from the distilling are then turned around and used as energy in the distilling plants themselves.  Lots of camera shots of major city streets, pointing out the size of the cars compared to lots of ours.


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## wasabi (Apr 28, 2006)

$3.02 for reg.


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## ronjohn55 (Apr 28, 2006)

marmalady said:
			
		

> There was just a program a few weeks ago on Discovery or something, about how Brazil has been using - I think - sugar cane for years and years as fuel. And the byproducts from the distilling are then turned around and used as energy in the distilling plants themselves. Lots of camera shots of major city streets, pointing out the size of the cars compared to lots of ours.


 
Yep, anything that has sugars that yeast can ferment can produce alcohol, they've even managed to find ways to ferment sugars from inedible grasses so that it won't cut into the food supply, it's just that it's still a fairly ineffecient process (although the fact that it's renewable makes it a fair trade). It get's fermented into alcohol, then distilled (and since it isn't for human consumption, the focus can be on yield, not taste/drinkability ).

John


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## BrianMorin (Apr 28, 2006)

AlexR said:
			
		

> Yes.
> 
> The oil companies are a bunch of fat cats who are taking us for a ride (take a look at their profits!!!) with the complicity of governments.
> 
> ...



That is a very important element that you have just added to this thread... 

Thanks


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## BrianMorin (Apr 28, 2006)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> My answer is, "Yes".  We are being charged too much for gas.  How much gas costs in other countries is not relevant to our situation, especially if the difference is in taxes.
> 
> It angers me that gas prices are at or near an all-time high and at the very same time the oil companies announce record profits.  Then the calmly blame the hight prices on the price of oil or the conversion to ethanol, or switching from cold to warm weather formulas...  Anything to hide the truth!
> 
> ...




It seems to me that the free energy technology, that has been around since the early 1900's, that was invented by Nicoli Tesala (hope I spelled that right), as well as the the original technology developed by Mr. Diesel - which was originally invented to use vegetable oils - have been kept out of the market, I find, is highly regrettable and a burden on us all (globally)


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## BrianMorin (Apr 28, 2006)

Lizannd said:
			
		

> to the grocery store more than once a week to do our shopping.  And if all of the 12 kids on my block walked to school TOGETHER it would be safer.  And when they met up with the 20 kids from the other three sides of the block there would be quite a group all walking TOGETHER.  The older kids could be told to keep an eye on their younger siblings and all the other younger kids.   This type of responsibility used to be second nature when I was growing up.  It didn't seem to be a problem when my son was growing up.  While I realize that not every neighborhood is within walking distance to the elementary school some are and there is no reason that high school kids need to be driven 2 or 3 blocks to school.




"It takes a whole community to raise a child" - Unknown


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## BrianMorin (Apr 28, 2006)

kimbaby said:
			
		

> hmmmm why don't they use the corn... seems pretty logical to me.I seen the special on 60 minutes, its kinda a back up plan in case we ever run out of"gas" any one else see this special???



No I didn't see the special, but your question still stands: "hmmmm why don't they use the corn..."? Yes, why? $$$$$


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## BrianMorin (Apr 28, 2006)

I believe we have choices, we just haven't seen them yet. If we believe we have no choices you can be sure we don't. I know that this is all a bit philosophically in nature, but I am trying not to be political. Not buying gas would mean that everyone would have to work in harmony. To work in harmony to not by gas, as has been done in France, an more than once, on a global basis, would change gas prices very fast. Now who is going to start the ball rolling. You???


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