# Pasties



## Sandyj (Jul 2, 2005)

Does anyone have a recipe for cornish pasties - or for that matter, sausage rolls? This is something my gran used to make, and was standard fare at all family celebrations. Mainly, I'd like to have a standard pastry recipe - I think a shortcrust pastry would be good, but I've had sausage rolls in flaky pastry, and that was actually very nice (and decadent). My gran used to just pull out the ingredients and get going - forget precise measuring, she had the feel of it. Wish I was that good! - Sandyj


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## Michael in FtW (Jul 3, 2005)

If you have a recipe from your grandmother - you've got a start on figuring this out. If you remember how she made them, that's another clue. If you remember what they tasted like - you might be able to figure out "the" recipe to use. This is one dish that varies by the cook and what was available to go into it - as variations on a basic theme.

The shortcrust pastry was, originally, probably either lard (most likely) or butter - depends on what was on hand ... although some "updated" recipes will use shortning - plus flour and water.

As for the meat in the filling - it could be beef, lamb, mutton or sometimes pork. And, it would generally have either turnips or rutabaga - with potatoes and with/without carrots. Seasonings could be as simple as salt and pepper, or might include parsley, or a mixture of other herbs, and might even include spices like nutmeg. While generally baked, they could also be fried - and size was up to the cook and the preference of the miner eating it.

I've learned that this is a food of the common man - one without much money - that was made from bits and scraps and things that were available. There is no one "definitive" recipe.

Here are a couple of places to start looking to find a recipe that "sounds" like what your gran made ....

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pasty+recipe

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=pastie+recipe


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## Ishbel (Jul 3, 2005)

Here's my family recipe for sausage rolls.  Don't know whether your sausage meat is the same as British stuff, though!

*SAUSAGE ROLLS*

500g pork sausage meat - good quality
1 medium onion
500g shortcrust or puff pastry (puff is more traditional but we like shortcrust!)
1/4 teaspoon salt/plenty of freshly ground black pepper
Milk or beaten egg as a glaze


Preheat the oven to Gas mark 8. 

Season the meat and add finely chopped onion and mix together well. Using your hands, roll sausage meat out to a 'rope' (not too thin - and use a little flour to stop the sausagement sticking to the work surface).

Roll out the pastry to a rectangle about 50cm by 40cm. Cut into three strips lengthways. Divide the sausage rope into 3 portions and place each part along the edge of one strip of pastry. 

Rub a little water along the opposite edges of the pastry. Starting at the sausage meat side, roll over the pastry towards the other side, until you have formed a roll with the seam at the bottom. Gently firm down. 

Cut each log into about 8 rolls. Using kitchen scissors, cut three diagonal slits in the top of each roll. Brush a little milk or egg wash over each one to glaze. 

Place the sausage rolls on baking sheets. Bake for 15 minutes, then reduce the heat to Gas mark 6 - and cook for a further 20 minutes, or until cooked.

These can be eaten hot or cold. You can make them a few days in advance and keep them in an airtight container and just pop back into the office to heat through just before required.


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## Sandyj (Jul 3, 2005)

*Thank you - I'm trying tomorrow*

Thanks for your replies and recipes.
I remember how my gran's pies tasted (and smelled), and yes, she didn't really use a recipe because she put into them whatever was on hand - often leftover Sunday meat (lamb, mutton etc.) and yes, turnips, rutabaga or diced potatoes. There was also a cafe (tea shop) near where we used to live that made the most divine pasties and sausage rolls - they used puff pastry, my Gran used shortcrust (lard butter flour, ice water, cold hands). The cafe was the Ramona Cafe in Uitenhage, Eastern Cape, South Africa. It was owned by a Greek family (Michaelides (sp?)). They closed it in the '90s. Their pie filling was always sausage meat with a 'sage' and pepper kind of a taste. I made what I hoped was something similar using pork sausage, ground beef and sage/white pepper/salt - but I made my own pastry (basically shortcrust). I'm just learning, and I think I handled the pastry too much, so it wasn't as flaky and crumbly. It froze well, though. I'm just dying for a lovely pie and a really good cup of tea (to restore my soul!!!). I am trying out your recipe tomorrow in honour of 
4th of July (starters for a party) - Sandyj


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## Sandyj (Jul 3, 2005)

*ooh, forgot this...*

Yes, I agree, meat pies seem to be in every culture. I've had delicious rooties (sp?) and samoosas (India) and Empanadas (Spanish ?), Cornish pasties, my grans pasties, and, recently, dumplings at a Chinese restaurant. Ag, isn't it lovely? -Sandyj


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## Michael in FtW (Jul 4, 2005)

You're right - the less you handle the dough the better it will be. It's just like a pie crust.

I'm lazy these days - I make my shortcrust pastry in my food processor. I cube the cold lard into about 1/4 inch pieces, and toss them and the flour into a covered bowl - and put that and the steel blade and work bowl from my food processor into the fridge for a couple of hours. I then add the lard and flour to the food processor - give it 10-15 1-second pulses, continue to pulse and add ice water until it's the right texture (usually about 5 more pulses) .... dump it out onto the counter, form it quickly into a disc about 6-inchs in diameter, wrap in plastic wrap, and pop it back in the fridge for about 2 hours (allows the lard to firm back up, any gluten that developed to relax, and gives time for the flour to fully hydrate). Then it's just a matter of rolling it out ....


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## Ishbel (Jul 4, 2005)

Do a search on here for Cornish pasties - I've posted a link to a genuine Cornish site, and I've used that recipe and consider it is 'authentic' (I visit Cornwall at least once a year!)  However, there are probably as many Cornish recipes for pasties as there are Cornish cooks!


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## Sandyj (Jul 5, 2005)

*Follow up...*

Ishbel: I made the sausage rolls from your recipe, and they did come out very nicely - I made my own shortcrust pastry but I bought the sausage meat that came in a tube - no casing on it. It tastes like breakfast sause (pork/sage) and I added the onion and some seasoning to it. I could actually make my own, but this was a shortcut.

Michael: I've wanted a food processor for  long time to do pastry and such, but have been nervous that I wouldn't use it often. Space in my kitchen is horribly limited. Now I'm torn between a food processor and a standing mixer with the grinder attachment so I could make my own sausage.

I couldn't locate the link to the Cornish website. I'm new to this - perhaps I'm not looking in the right place?


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## Ishbel (Jul 5, 2005)

Glad the sausage rolls turned out well!

Here's the Cornish Light site.  Have a look at the photographs - they illustrate the traditional shape and filling!

http://www.cornishlight.co.uk/cornish-pasty.htm


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jul 5, 2005)

Michael;  You continue to amaze me.  I live in pastie country.  My mother co-owned a bakery and that was one of their main products.  I've been eating pasties most of my life, and have been making them for years.  But as I said, Upper Peninsula Michigan *IS* pastie country.  We used to have copper and iron mines galore, especially in the Western U.P.

But you're in Fort Worth, Texas.  I can't imagin you have many Cornish settlers in your area.  You have either traveled substantially, or are great at research, or both.  You nailed what a pastie is.  Good job my freind. Kudos.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Sandyj (Jul 6, 2005)

*If that's the case, I'm moving to the UP*

I didn't know there was anywhere in the States where pasties were commonly available! I used to live in Michigan, too! Who knew? -Sandy


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## VegasDramaQueen (Jul 6, 2005)

*Pasties in Michigan*

 _I have to agree with Goodweed of the North.  Upper Michigan IS pastie country and no one makes them better than "Yoopers."_
_My in-laws were born and raised in Calumet and Houghton and if anyone knew how to make the world's best pastie it was my MIL.  _
_I tried so many times to duplicate them,  but there was something "missing."   We lived in Michigan til 1986 then to San Diego and now live in Las Vegas.  We spend the summer (May thru Oct.) in Traverse City Michigan and the best pasties we've had so far are at the Mackinaw Pastie company in Mackinaw City.   The west coast doesn't have a clue as to how a pastie should be made, or even what they ARE.   I miss Michigan pasties so much.   My MIL used  flank or round  steak chopped,  carrots,  onions, rutabega (a must)  chopped fresh parsley, lots  of it, and salt and pepper.  She topped the pastie with a dollop of butter before folding over the dough and when you bit into her pasties you were in heaven.  She originally made crust the way they do in the UP, with beef suet  but switchd to Crisco because of the cholesterol problem.   Her sister in law still make them with suet and the crust was unbelieveably good..  Now my mouth is watering.  Looks like another trip to Mackinaw City this week.   _


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## Ishbel (Jul 6, 2005)

Hello DramaQueen
I think natives of Cornwall might take issue with your first sentence


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## Ishbel (Jul 6, 2005)

Goodweed and DramaQ

Out of curiosity, because of the presence of so many people with Cornish ancestry in the area - I just wondered whether there were other Cornish dishes which are popular over there, besides Cornish pasties?

I was thinking of specifically Cornish dishes, like Saffron cake, Fairings (a type of biscuit) and fish dishes like star-gazey pie?


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## VegasDramaQueen (Jul 6, 2005)

*Show me the Pastie*



			
				Ishbel said:
			
		

> Hello DramaQueen
> I think natives of Cornwall might take issue with your first sentence


 
 If any native of Cornwall will be kind enough to bring me a pastie to try, I might recant my statement.

As for the dishes you asked about, I have never heard of any of them, but we'll be taking a trip to the Upper Peninsula in a week or so and will give them a try and let you know.

Now that I think of it,  my MIL used to make Saffron Bread and it was delicious.  Probably the same as Saffron Cake. Saffron is big in the U.P.  The Star Gazey pie has me intrigued.   Gotta find out what that is.


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## VegasDramaQueen (Jul 6, 2005)

*Star gazey pie*

 Well look at this. I did a google search and came up with this for Star Gazey pie.


You may use herring or mackerel for this but scale them first, open and 
debone. Put parsley, pepper and salt inside, roll them up. Put 
bread-crumbs in bottom of a buttered pie-dish, then layer of fish, layer of 
crumbs, fish, etc, before covering all with beaten egg, a few rashers of 
bacon, and a good couple of dollops of cream. Put pastry over dish, with 
slits in it for some fish heads to look out. When baked, stick a sprig of 
fresh parsley in each fish-mouth and serve. Can you imagine the 
surprises -- at seeing it and then tasting it!

For marinating pilchards or mackerel, use a "Moderate" oven and cook for 
60-75 mins and that should do it for you. Otherwise, using a "Slow" oven, 
leave them cooking overnight.

Geoff Ford Sydney NSW


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jul 6, 2005)

Drama Queen;  If you're gonna be in the U.P. in a week or so, are you by any chance heading over to the Eastern part, namely Sault Ste. Marie?  If so, let me know and I'll give you my phone number.  Maybe we could meet.  That would be grand.  My wife is always up for meeting with new freinds.

And I'm sorry but the pastie recipe is the only cornish recipe that I know.  I would guess though that other recipes have at the very least influenced the cooking styles around here.  We have a lot of meat and potato people.  And things like boiled dinner, meat pies, etc. are standard fair in these parts.  Of course you won't find better fresh water fish anywhere in the world.  We have Lake Superior, the cleanest and possibly coldest body of fresh water around.  The fish from that lake are extraordinary.  So much so that we tend to snub our noses at catfish, carp, bullheads, bass, etc.  We dine on wallye, yellow perch, several species of salmon, lake trout, bron trout, steelhead, norther pike, muskies, rainbow and speckled trout (my absolute favorites), and even the minisule but wonderful smelt.

And then there's the wild game...  
And then there's the wild rasberries, and the best tasting wild blue berries anywhere, free for the picking.  I drive through the logging trails with the windows open until I smell the blueberries in the air.  Then we start picking.  

But this was about pasties so I'm leaving now.  I must be hungry or something.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## PA Baker (Jul 6, 2005)

Goodweed, every time you write about the UP you make me so homesick!  I need to get back, to see family, but especially to eat!!!


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## Sandyj (Jul 6, 2005)

*Star Gazey Pie*

That Star Gazey Pie sounds quite nice and not too difficult to make - I remember reading a recipe for it long ago - love the name. I think I'm going to give this a go.

DramaQ, your MIL's cornish pastie recipe with the dollop of butter sounds just like my grandmother's. She once told me (confidentially) that if I'm tasting something I made and it doesn't taste quite right, I could always add a dollop of butter! She was cooking and baking right into her 90's and never dieted or knew much about cholesterol - she did eat healthy food - lots of vegetables, but, loved her meat (and the fat on it). She was from a farm. I think her 'secret' was all good things in moderation. -Sandyj


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## VegasDramaQueen (Jul 6, 2005)

*Meeting Goodweed*

 *  Would love to meet with you Goodweed.  As soon as our plans are firmed up I'll get your phone number.  *
*As for the walleye, lake perch and Lake Superior Whitefish, I'm sure there may be better fish somewhere in this world but I doubt it.  As I mentioned, we retired to Las Vegas, but we spend the summers here in Traverse City so I look forward to eating those fish while we're here and also smelt.  *
*The raspeberries, strawberries and blueberries on the West Coast can't come anywhere near comparing to those from Michigan.  Ditto on corn. Michigan has a lot going for it as a farming state and some of the best food is grown here. We spend the summer eating all of our favorite foods,  then go home to recuperate and diet.*


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## VegasDramaQueen (Jul 6, 2005)

*Your grandmother was right*



			
				Sandyj said:
			
		

> That Star Gazey Pie sounds quite nice and not too difficult to make - I remember reading a recipe for it long ago - love the name. I think I'm going to give this a go.
> 
> DramaQ, your MIL's cornish pastie recipe with the dollop of butter sounds just like my grandmother's. She once told me (confidentially) that if I'm tasting something I made and it doesn't taste quite right, I could always add a dollop of butter! She was cooking and baking right into her 90's and never dieted or knew much about cholesterol - she did eat healthy food - lots of vegetables, but, loved her meat (and the fat on it). She was from a farm. I think her 'secret' was all good things in moderation. -Sandyj


 
   She was right.  All good things in moderation.  Now if I could just remember that.  We grew up on veggies and fresh fruits and berries, and we eat tons of those things, but the "good" things are what we pig out on.


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## Michael in FtW (Jul 6, 2005)

Goodweed - it's simple ... my "adopted 3rd mother", who was  also my sons godmother, was Welsh.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jul 7, 2005)

Michael in FtW said:
			
		

> Goodweed - it's simple ... my "adopted 3rd mother", who was  also my sons godmother, was Welsh.



All I can say is, too cool  .

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jul 7, 2005)

Drama Queen;  I'm looking forward to your visit.  I can't gauruntee that I'll have any fresh fish, but I know a place where I can get good meat, and we have a great selection of veggies to choose from.  The fruits aren't bad either.  

Let me know what you're interested in having and I'll see what we can come up with.  Since we're all addicted to food, and to the cooking process, I'd be glad to invite you into our kitchen and we could see if we can create something extraordinary.  I'm game for just about anything.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## msalper (Jul 7, 2005)

Hi All...
I'm really want to make a very delicious pasties. I can't forget the taste of chicken pasty. And also unfortunately I can't remember it to get the same taste and to make. Everybody has own recipe I think.

Regarding to Pasty, I have new questions... I already had a question about pasty dough that its most important part for me. (I got all my answers) I think then you can fill it whatever you like.  But...

1. Is there any step to add spices... Is it so important to make pasty?
2. I'm sorry but what is rutabega? Is it sweet or salty? 
3. Oven is important to cook pasty? Bottom side of my pasties are always cooked and it becomes hard to bite. I have mini oven. So while top of my pasties cook well and soft but bottom side...
4. In here pasty culture is not well known. So there is no place to taste it. And also no special pasty blender. And I use my hands to make a pasty dough. If I use knife, it takes more time.


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## Ishbel (Jul 7, 2005)

Rutebaga is known in Europe as Swede or swedish turnip - it is larger than the French style white ones with purple skins.  It is traditional to add  it to beef or lamb pasties in Cornwall.


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## msalper (Jul 7, 2005)

Ohh yes I know turnip.. Wow does it really give a good taste...? I will try...


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jul 7, 2005)

To make a proper dough, *** the salt before mixing, then mix enough shorteneing or lard into plain white flour to make little pea-sized balls.  The ingredients should be cold.  If you use your hands, don't work the dough too much, the less the better.  Add just enough water to make the dough balls stick together.  Again, the water must be cold.

Roll out the dough on a lightly floured surface, cut into ten to 12 inch rounds, and fill with the pre-cooked ingredients.  The ingredients should be pre-cooked so you can correct the seasonings before putting into the dough.  Add a pat of butter or two, and fold into pasties.  Bake and enjoy.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Ishbel (Jul 7, 2005)

I've never seen a cornish pasty which has precooked vegetables and meats in them.  All traditional pasties I've ever eaten in Cornwall, whether shop bought or made by friends use raw meat and uncooked veg.

This Cornish site may help msalper, as the woman who wrote it has put illustrations of each step.  Just substitute your chicken for beef, and bob's your uncle!
http://www.greenchronicle.co.uk/connies_cornish_kitchen/cornish_pasty_recipe.htm


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## msalper (Jul 7, 2005)

If we use raw meat or veg., is cooking time enough to cook inside the pasty also. I also use precooked veg. chicken and meat...
And thank you for this web site also. i will check it. It seems to be helpfull like you..
Thanks


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## Sandyj (Jul 7, 2005)

*Saw your note*

msalper - I saw an email in my inbox and since I didn't recognize who it was from, I deleted it. I think it was from you, now that I see your name - sorry about that - was just being cautious. - Sandyj


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## msalper (Jul 7, 2005)

No pb. Sandyj- It was about my msn address(msalper@hotmail.com) to talking more about pasties and sausages rolls. Because I everytime have question and I don't stop until I make a very good pasty.  So if you have a msn you can add me. 
Sorry admin. for that.  This is not about discussion of cooking.


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## VegasDramaQueen (Jul 7, 2005)

*Raw Raw Raw!!!*

  Raw veggies and meat are a must when making pasties.  If you use pre-cooked you'll end up with mush. 
The pasties bake in the oven for an hour so there is plenty of time for the chopped ingredients to cook.  We recently had a pasties  from a bakery north of Traverse City, took one bite and sent them back to the kitchen.  They use pre-cooked ingredients and it was like eating paste surrounded by dough.  Pasty and paste are NOT the same thing.


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## VegasDramaQueen (Jul 7, 2005)

*Thanks Goodweed*

_Thanks so much for your kind invitation.  I would look forward to meeting you.  No need to feed us,  although we eat anything and everything, but we can discuss this later.  I hope our plans don't change.    _


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## Ishbel (Jul 7, 2005)

Glad you concur   pahhhh stees, as the Cornish say is definitely NOT the same as paste!  Precooked swede and potato would be a mushy mixture.  Not the taste experience that a real pasty should be!


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## msalper (Jul 7, 2005)

Ingredients are OK. We must use raw one. 

I will plan to open a cafe in here. And I must present delicious pasties and others to people ofcourse. After cooked my dough turn into a stone  (I'm joking) Not stone but maybe soft wood . Anyway. 
How do you make your dough without handling? I don't have pasty blender. Maybe I should have one. After mixing flour and butter, I wonder what does "flour with butter" look like? Is it like a breadcrumb? Because I feel, I need to use my hands to crumble completely. Maybe I'm wrong.


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## Sandyj (Jul 7, 2005)

msalper

I've watched my gran many times make pastry by hand - she would first cut up the butter and lard into small pieces, put them into a chilled bowl - even putting little pieces of ice with the butter/lard to keep it from melting. As she would do this, she would say to me "cold hands? warm heart!". 

Working quickly, with those cool hands, she would take a few pieces of butter/lard at a time and place it on the flour - picking up a bit of flour and a bit of butter/lard and "pinching" them together until it became crumbly (yes, like bread crumbs - maybe the pieces will be a little bigger than bread crumbs (peas)), but crumbly all the same. The flour, of course, had already been measured and set out in a little "hill" on her clean counter.  

It's after this point where I think mine goes wrong - when I add the little bits of ice water, the dough is either too dry or too wet and sticky, and in panic, I "handle" it too much to fix. This is where I need practise with "feel".

When done, she would gather the dough up into a ball, and refridgerate for at least an hour before rolling out. The rolling out would be done on a clean, lightly floured surface - also working quickly with minimal handling of the dough.

There's a reason for all this 'coldness' - something to do with not allowing too much gluten to form, gluten being the thing that makes the pastry tough.

p.s. I've read that if you take the full amount of lard required and then, instead of just lard, use half that measurement in butter, and half lard, you'll get the good texture from the lard and good flavour from the butter. I think my gran used to just use butter. -Sandy


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## kyles (Jul 7, 2005)

My grandmother used to make the best shortcrust too. I have inherited the gift as well. It's one of those things thats just practice, practice, practice. Keep the kitchen cool is the first thing. I don't turn the oven on until the pastry is made and resting in the fridge. I keep the windows open. I don't make pastry in warm weather, so on a cool day I will make a few batches and put them in the freezer.

Everything Sandyj said is what I do. Cut the butter into cubes then rub into the flour til it resembles fine bread crumbs. You have to use your finger tips only and stop if your hands are getting too hot! My big tip is when you mix the water in, use a knife (bread and butter knife not a sharp one) and use a cutting action (I put the knife in the freezer first) Add the water a teaspoon at a time, and stop just as it starts to come together.

And on the pastie and sausage role topic, I like pasties best in shortcrust and flaky pastry for the sausage rolls. My favourite sausage rolls are from the deli in our village, he makes the greatest ones ever. I would love the recipe but it's secret!!!


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## Ishbel (Jul 7, 2005)

A tip from my Granny (and my mum's method, too) was to run the cold tap until the water was seriously COLD (and believe me, in Scotland that is REALLY cold!) and then allow it to play over the pulse points in your wrists for a few minutes...   Don't know if there's any scientific reality behind it, but I always do it...   it works for me


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## msalper (Jul 8, 2005)

Kyles: I have tried to make flaky pastry by using creme cheese instead of butter (half amount both of them). But it was not working for me. Maybe other things affected this. Do you have any clue about it? And in USA, you called "shortening" something I don't know. Could you please explain it to me? So maybe I can find it in here. I asked my friend who lives in Sanfranciso told me that "shortening" is like an additive for pastry, pie and tart dough.


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## kyles (Jul 8, 2005)

I make flaky pastry with lard (eek the saturated fat - oh well) and butter. I will look at my recipe and post it to you privately over the weekend when I get a chance!


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## Sandyj (Jul 8, 2005)

*Cold water on hands tip - works...*

Ishbel, my gran also gave me that tip! I think it works. Sometimes at the office, I'll use that "tip", too, just to cool off on a hot, humid day.
Kyles, you're lucky you got "the gift". I'm not giving up though. And...I agree about the shortcrust being better for the pasty, whereas sausage rolls are delish with flaky pastry. Mmmmm, could go for a good old Ramona Cafe pie right now!
It's my birthday on Sunday & there is a tradition at the office to bring in breakfast, (most bring in bagels). This year I thought I might make some sausage rolls and a savoury tart to take in on Monday for my American colleagues! Wonder if they'll enjoy?! -Sandyj


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## msalper (Jul 9, 2005)

Hi All,

I tried to attached my last pasty try but I don't know if I success this. I'm going to Olympos Antalya for a week(south of Turkey) for vacation . Before; I have some question to reply...

- We don't have lard in here. what kind of butter can I use for substitute or can I use shortening? And when I choose butter must it be unsalted one without water inside?
-Kyles: I'm waiting your recipe also and I want to ask you if you tasted Greggs Chciken Pasty... Do you know what they use for dough and fillings chicken with bechamel sauce?
- For flaky is it must to have lard? 

You can find my pasty link below also Olympos.. 

http://www.discusscooking.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=195&c=5
www.*olympos*turkmen*tree**houses*.com


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jul 9, 2005)

I have made flakey crusts using butter, lard, and shortening (lie Crisco brand) and even cooking oil.  The key to flakey pastry is to create the pea-sized granules of flour/salt/fat, don't overwork the dough (I use a pastry cutter to blend the ingredients together), and keep the dough cold, to maintain a certain amount of stiffness in the little dough balls if you will.  When the dough warms, it tends to blend into a more homegenized mixture.  The individual little dough balls, when chilled and mixed with a tablespoon or two of ice-water, turn into little flat-flakeswhen rolled out, weakly glued together by the wet starch.  This allows the crust to be handled and formed to the pie-pan.  When cooked, the moisture is mostly evaporated out, leaving a solid crust of flatened dough flakes, easily fractured when acted upon by pressure (provided by your teeth, a fork, knife, etc.).

Shortbread, on the other hand, is supposed to a continuous piece of pastry, with a fine and tender crumb.  Both are great. Each has properties that make it more suited to one recpe type than the other.

If memory serves me correctly, use 1/3 cup of fat for every cup of flour (ratio = 3 to 1 of flour to fat respectively).  Add about 2 tbs. ice water per cup of flour, after the fat, flour, and salt have been blended.  

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## kyles (Jul 17, 2005)

Flaky pastry - this recipe is courtesy of one of the two fat ladies, Jennifer Patterson. She uses cookeen, which is a white vegetable fat, I have used lard instead if I can't get the cookeen. (it's what those in the US called Crisco)

425g plain flour
200g chilled butter 
55g cookeen
2 tsp salt
175g water (I add the water gradually sometimes you need less, depends on the day, your flour, all sorts of things)
85g butter softened
1 egg for glazing

Blend all ingredients except for the softened butter and egg, either in a food processor, or the finger tip rub in method.
Form into a ball, wrap in cling film and refrigerate for two hours.
Roll the pastry into a rectangle, over the bottom spread half the softened butter, fold in half to enclose the butter spread with remaining butter and fold again. Roll into a rectangle and fold in thirds like folding an A4 piece of paper to put in an evelope. Chill for two hours
To obtain a flakier pastry, keep repeating this method up to four times, using more butter.

Chill again for 2 hours, roll into a rectangle and cut into desired shapes.


This will give a result not dissimilar to Greggs flaky pastry, but not quite the same. The technique to get that very flaky pastry is very difficult and not one I have mastered. 

I don't like Gregg's chicken pasties at all, so I am not sure how to replicate them!!!


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## thumpershere2 (Jul 17, 2005)

Here is a pie crust recipe I use for alot of things other then just pies.

Mix and chill for 1/2 hour. Enough for 2 double crust.
3 cups flou1/2 lb lard
1 tsp salt
1 egg
1 Tlb vinegar
5 Tlb water
Add flour, salt, lard and blend to sm crumbles. Slightly beat egg in a sm bowl and add to it the vinigar and water and then add to flour and lard mixture. Chill and then roll out between 2 sheets of wax paper with a little flour shaken over the paper to keep dough from sticking. This rolls out easy and is a very flakey crust. Remember to turn the dough a few times when rolling it out and add a little flour to the wax paper if needed to keep from sticking.


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