# Another 3-2-1 question...Foil vs oven bags...



## Bacardi

I know traditionally you're suppose to use foil for the 3-2-1 method...I've had problems with it sealing...If I use the heavy duty foil, I have better sealing results, but still doesn't seem to seal 100%...

Got to thinking, what about those plastic oven bags?  Those seal 100%, would those work better than foil?  Anyone ever try them?


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## pacanis

I haven't tried the bags, but I've never had a loose seal with foil. I'm pretty sure any juice could seep out if I turned it upside down, but it holds the steam in pretty well. 
I wrap it up like butchers use freezer paper. Let's say you tear off a piece 12" width by 24" long. Lay the ribs on it, bring the two long sides together and keep folding them together until you're fairly snug against the ribs. Then fold up each end. If you've ever gotten meat wrapped up in paper from a butcher, that's pretty much the same technique. Add juice in one end before it's folded if you want.
Gotta keep those tin foil companies in business (lol).


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## QSis

What pacanis said.  

I do that quickly and un-carefully, so my packets may very well leak some steam.  Never noticed a problem with it.

Lee


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## Bacardi

Just curious if anyone HAS ever used oven bags to see if there is any difference...

Probably do some experimenting in the beginning of the new year...


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## Russellkhan

I haven't used oven bags and wouldn't. Cooking in plastic just does not sound appetizing to me.


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## Adillo303

How about another player in the game? Reynolds makes "Hot Bags". They are a pouch made of heavy foil. They seal very well.

If you can cook a turkey in an oven bag, why not ribs?

Because I am new and still learning, would someone please tell me what the 3 2 1 method is?

Thank You

AC


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## pacanis

It's a BBQ method; 3 hours on the Q, typically with your rub on, 2 hours wrapped in foil, sometimes with liquid added, 1 hour back on the Q and you sauce at this point if you want to. The times can be adjusted, like if you were doing babybacks instead of the larger spare ribs, or short ribs, but there's still three stages.


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## Bacardi

Russellkhan said:


> I haven't used oven bags and wouldn't. Cooking in plastic just does not sound appetizing to me.



Cooking in reactive aluminum that I can't even to get to seal properly doesn't appeal to me   If you buy ribs at the supermarket, they have been exposed to plastic due to the packaging...

For the record, I know I CAN do it...Good thinking with the oven foil bag for the sealing...

Logically it seems that a oven bag would be more effective device than foil...I would think the foil reflects heat would reflect more heat and be difficult to completely form an air tight seal...So an oven bagged 3-2-1 rib, should be a little more tender...How much?  That is the question...


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## pacanis

I think foil also helps reflect heat back in, otherwise how would those flimsy space blankets work. They are shiny on both sides just like aluminum foil.
Give it a try though. I don't see why it wouldn't work.... in an oven anyway.


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## QSis

Bacardi, what are your ribs like when they are done?  Are they tough???  Two hours in foil, even with steam leaks, should yield ribs that are pretty close to falling off the bone.  

I only foil ribs for an hour these days (or not at all), since HD foil is TOO effective in steaming them.  I don't like ribs falling off the bone.

Lee


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## Bacardi

QSis said:


> Bacardi, what are your ribs like when they are done?  Are they tough???  Two hours in foil, even with steam leaks, should yield ribs that are pretty close to falling off the bone.
> 
> I only foil ribs for an hour these days (or not at all), since HD foil is TOO effective in steaming them.  I don't like ribs falling off the bone.
> 
> Lee



They're falling off the bone, the way I like them.

I'm wondering if the foil retards the cooking process more than an oven bag...Thinking with an oven bag, if I could have 3-2-1 textured ribs ready an hour sooner


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## Uncle Bob

Foiling ribs will gain you about an hour in cook time....

A 100% Seal is *not* necessary to achieve the results you want....

I almost never foil...When/If I do....45 minutes tops....No more!!!!!



			
				 Bacardi said:
			
		

> Thinking with an oven bag, if I could have 3-2-1 textured ribs ready an hour sooner


 
What's the hurry???


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## Bacardi

Uncle Bob said:


> Foiling ribs will gain you about an hour in cook time....
> 
> A 100% Seal is *not* necessary to achieve the results you want....
> 
> I almost never foil...When/If I do....45 minutes tops....No more!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> What's the hurry???



My hurry?  I'm generation Y, lol!  We require instant gratification!  Also I do have an electric smoker, therefore knocking an hour off may lower my electric bill 63 cents! 

Everyone seems to evade the point...

Would an oven bag knock lets say an hour off the cooking time?


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## Uncle Bob

I don't think anyone is evading the question/point ------- I don't think anyone (so far) knows the answer....I would *guess* the bag may work as well as the foil...knocking off about an hour of cook time....Why don't you give it a trial run and let everyone know the results .... If you have time........

Have Fun!!


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## Bacardi

Post 4 uncle bob


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## Uncle Bob

I look forward to your report!!


Bon Appetit


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## TheFanatic

What's the problem?  throw some foil around the ribs and be done with it.  No pure seal, so what?  quick tip, don't load too many ribs in foil.  I tend to do 3 half slabs or two whole slabs in foil.  Most of the times it takes two layers of foil.  I've never worried about a perfect seal.  

If your ribs aren't coming out well because you think the foil isn't sealed then you are doing it wrong


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## Bacardi

TheFanatic said:


> What's the problem?  throw some foil around the ribs and be done with it.  No pure seal, so what?  quick tip, don't load too many ribs in foil.  I tend to do 3 half slabs or two whole slabs in foil.  Most of the times it takes two layers of foil.  I've never worried about a perfect seal.
> 
> If your ribs aren't coming out well because you think the foil isn't sealed then you are doing it wrong



The problem is that no one is reading the entire thread, lol...My ribs are coming out great...I think I can shave some time off by using plastic vs foil and wanted to know if anyone has tried it...


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## love2"Q"

bacardi .. i dont see how using the oven bags would
reduce the time .. it seems they would do basically the 
same thing as foil .. i have not tried it but i might ..


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## Bacardi

love2"Q" said:


> bacardi .. i dont see how using the oven bags would
> reduce the time .. it seems they would do basically the
> same thing as foil .. i have not tried it but i might ..



As I've said in the tread already...

My thoughts, which may logical sense but may not be accurate...

Foil doesn't yield a 100% seal, waste of efficiency...Foil reflects heat...
Plastic bag yields a 100% seal and doesn't reflect any energy...

And again, as I said in post four, I'm going to try it during my next smoking session and post the outcome...


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## love2"Q"

yeah .. i read that .. and i get that foil reflects ..
but i think it also holds heat in better .. i am 
interested in your findings ..


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## pacanis

You're right.... it certainly does appear some people are skipping over threads.
I suggested you give the bags a try and let us know, UB did the same thing.... some of us our curious, and while we may not have been able to offer any advice on this new method you are trying to develop, we at least responded and wondered why you were having such a hard time with your foil.
And BTW, have you given my space blanket comment any thought? Why do space blankets hold in heat, but aluminum foil doesn't? They're both shiny on both sides... I'm thinking you are confusing reflecting light with reflecting heat. Aluminum takes on heat fast and dissipates heat fast when the heat source is removed. And when you wrap the ribs in anything, you are doing so to keep the heat in as well as the moisture.

I think there's nothing left but for you to give it a try and report back, bacardi. I know some of us our curious, but I doubt I will switch methods because the foil works for me and is a mulit-tasker.


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## TheFanatic

Ribs and efficiency?  Those are two words that should be used in the same sentence.  Ribs is about taking your time and enjoying the process. What are you hoping to do? Shave off 30 minutes?  If you want to shave time off the process raise the temp to 250-275...


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## Bacardi

TheFanatic said:


> Ribs and efficiency?  Those are two words that should be used in the same sentence.  Ribs is about taking your time and enjoying the process. What are you hoping to do? Shave off 30 minutes?  If you want to shave time off the process raise the temp to 250-275...



Why was the 3-2-1 method created?  To cook ribs more efficient!  Your suggested temps are too high, you'd end up with less tender ribs...Ideally hoping a bag would shave an hour off, but who knows...


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## Bacardi

pacanis said:


> You're right.... it certainly does appear some people are skipping over threads.
> I suggested you give the bags a try and let us know, UB did the same thing.... some of us our curious, and while we may not have been able to offer any advice on this new method you are trying to develop, we at least responded and wondered why you were having such a hard time with your foil.
> And BTW, have you given my space blanket comment any thought? Why do space blankets hold in heat, but aluminum foil doesn't? They're both shiny on both sides... I'm thinking you are confusing reflecting light with reflecting heat. Aluminum takes on heat fast and dissipates heat fast when the heat source is removed. And when you wrap the ribs in anything, you are doing so to keep the heat in as well as the moisture.
> 
> I think there's nothing left but for you to give it a try and report back, bacardi. I know some of us our curious, but I doubt I will switch methods because the foil works for me and is a mulit-tasker.



Very informative...With foil, it's common practice to foil the breast of turkey to retard the white meats cooking...


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## TheFanatic

Bacardi said:


> Why was the 3-2-1 method created?  To cook ribs more efficient!  Your suggested temps are too high, you'd end up with less tender ribs...Ideally hoping a bag would shave an hour off, but who knows...



if you want fall off the bone ribs, raise the temp to 275, smoke for 2 hours and then foil for an hour.  Be careful pulling the ribs out of the foil.  The bones will be falling out.  Another hour on the heat to firm up the bark or add sauce and your ribs will be so tender they will blow you away.

whenever I am cooking for folks that want them fall off the bone tender I use this method....


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## Bacardi

TheFanatic said:


> if you want fall off the bone ribs, raise the temp to 275, smoke for 2 hours and then foil for an hour.  Be careful pulling the ribs out of the foil.  The bones will be falling out.  Another hour on the heat to firm up the bark or add sauce and your ribs will be so tender they will blow you away.
> 
> whenever I am cooking for folks that want them fall off the bone tender I use this method....



So 2-1-1 all at 275?  I did try something at a 275, I can't remember what I did time wise but it came out dry...I'll give your method a shot...


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## Savannahsmoker

So why would someone post a question and when they get an answer they want to argue about.  It takes all kinds.


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## Bacardi

Savannahsmoker said:


> So why would someone post a question and when they get an answer they want to argue about.  It takes all kinds.



No one answered, jumping to conclusions isn't answering 

Edit, I just wanted to add...It's not like I want I pick fights, it's simply my personality.  I'm a get it done guy.  Majority of posts added something useful either directly or indirectly to the topic.  Some did not...


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## jminion

Bacardi said:


> So 2-1-1 all at 275? I did try something at a 275, I can't remember what I did time wise but it came out dry...I'll give your method a shot...


 
I cook ribs in the 275 range all the time, if they come out dry it was because they were over done.

I don't use time as much for the guide during the cook. First phase I look for color and meat pull back on the bones. I want good color and about 1/2" or more pull back. The second phase (in foil) I look for tenderness. I don't go for falling off the bone so the ribs are in the foil 35 to 45 min. 
I will put a little honey, raw sugar, cayenne, and a little hot sauce in the foil and place the ribs face down in mixture, add a little fruit juice either apple or pineapple, seal the foil. I know it is time to pull the rack out of the foil if I can slide a toothpick in the meat between the bones and feels like it is going through warm butter. Then they come out the foil and back on the cooker only long enough to set the glaze I apply (if I use a glaze) 20 to 30 mins max. If I don't glaze them they only go back on long enouth to set the mixture from the foil phase.

This is the competition technique they are sweet but the rub I use has some heat that comes through. You get tang from sauce, some sweetness, the meat and a spicy finish for a flavor print. 
Jim


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## Bacardi

TheFanatic said:


> if you want fall off the bone ribs, raise the temp to 275, smoke for 2 hours and then foil for an hour.  Be careful pulling the ribs out of the foil.  The bones will be falling out.  Another hour on the heat to firm up the bark or add sauce and your ribs will be so tender they will blow you away.
> 
> whenever I am cooking for folks that want them fall off the bone tender I use this method....



I tried this last night, 2-1-1 at 275 all in an oven.  IMO, not as tender or overall as good as the 3-2-1 method...However, it was maybe 90% as good.  That's very impressive considered you shave the cooking time down 2hours/33%...


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## mbasiszta

Amazing that those plastic bags can take that heat. However, I don't like to cook with anything plastic, microwave included.


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## Nils Hoyum

Professionals use a product called PanSavers. They are oven-safe bags. They work really well. But are a lot more exspensive than aluminum foil.


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## mbasiszta

I guess I am in the Uncle Bob camp: I don't cover my ribs, chicken, turkey, brisket etc. meats very much. I like my meat moist, but I also like the crust from exposure to direct heat. I just use lower heat. Yes, it takes more time, but for me the flavor and crust is worth it.  Why be in a hurry? Just my dos centavos.


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## GotGarlic

mbasiszta said:


> Amazing that those plastic bags can take that heat. However, I don't like to cook with anything plastic, microwave included.



How is using the microwave cooking with plastic? Or am I misunderstanding you?


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## mbasiszta

GotGarlic said:


> How is using the microwave cooking with plastic? Or am I misunderstanding you?


Sorry, GarlicBreath (stands for me too because I lUHUV garlic), sorry for my poor English. What I meant was I don't us plastic in my microwave either.


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## cathywlker

*Love the cooking bags*

Got to thinking, what about those plastic oven bags? Those seal 100%, would those work better than foil? Anyone ever try them?[/QUOTE]

Yes and I absolutely love them, my meat is always tender and I cook chicken around 45 min and it is tender and juicy I cook all kinds of meats in the bags and they are great!


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## Addie

I have used them many times. I roast chickens in them. They produce a LOT of juice. Great for gravy. The meat comes out really tender. You use a twist tie at the top.


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## Addie

Oven Bags: Expand Your Menu

I didnt watch the video but it might have just the answer you are looking for.


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