# Concerns about the coronavirus/Covid-19 pandemic



## GotGarlic (Mar 11, 2020)

HeyItsSara said:


> I don't either.  During Hurricane Sandy, everyone stocked up on water.  Not TP.


I don't think anyone's expecting a possible water outage due to a disease epidemic. I don't understand TP in particular, either (the tissue replacement is interesting - hadn't thought of that), but this is going to get much worse before it gets better. It's smart to have at least a few weeks worth of supplies in the house.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 11, 2020)

I think it's because people are stocking up on necessities so they can stay out of the stores. Keeps them far from the madding crowd when the outbreak hits their neighborhood!


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## Linda0818 (Mar 13, 2020)

msmofet said:


> I just don't understand toilet paper hoarding!!!



Well... I mean... if your state/city/etc. requires a mandatory quarantine period, for at 14 days, no one would want to deal with running out of toilet paper 

Here in Ohio, our governor set a fire under everyone's feet yesterday by announcing all schools are closed for at least the next 3 weeks. That literally sent everyone into a panic and grocery stores, for lack of a better word, were pandemonium. Like they just announced a zombie apocalypse. In all of my years on this earth, I've _*never*_ seen anything like that. It was worse than Walmart on Black Friday. People were scrambling around like ants in a fire, grabbing things off the shelves and pushing each other out of the way so no one else could take the products they felt they were entitled to, etc etc etc.

And it got me thinking of how much we really know about each other and ourselves. It's almost like we live in this fake little world being our fake little selves. But once you throw us all into a crisis, our true selves come to the surface. And I gotta ya, it's damn scary.

I don't think I'll ever look at people in the same way again.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 13, 2020)

As some here know, I am a prepper and have been ready for this type of thing for some time.  All I have purchased was 4 cases of water that the animals like and does not clog up my coffee maker with minerals. I also refilled my medications today for 3 months (something I do every three months anyway).  I'm ready to sit back and watch the crazies...well, go crazy.  I was laughing as I passed the empty paper product shelves.

FYI...one cap of bleach in a gallon of water is a great disinfectant.

Be well, be safe and wash your hands.


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## Linda0818 (Mar 13, 2020)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> As some here know, I am a prepper and have been ready for this type of thing for some time.  All I have purchased was 4 cases of water that the animals like and does not clog up my coffee maker with minerals. I also refilled my medications today for 3 months (something I do every three months anyway).  I'm ready to sit back and watch the crazies...well, go crazy.  I was laughing as I passed the empty paper product shelves.
> 
> FYI...one cap of bleach in a gallon of water is a great disinfectant.
> 
> Be well, be safe and wash your hands.



The empty shelves are definitely amusing. I just shook my head. I stocked up on necessities a month ago because I foresaw this happening when the virus leaked out of China. But all of these people that waited until the last minute were literally fighting each other over the craziest things.


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## Linda0818 (Mar 14, 2020)

taxlady said:


> Sort of funny story. DH went out today to get some brown basmati rice at Singh Farm Grocery. I asked him to get two 10 lb bags, if there were plenty and that wasn't being greedy. We are pretty stocked up other than that. Got our prescriptions filled for two months yesterday. Anyhoo, he got to the store and looked at the big "wall of rice" and there was only a single bag left. It was a 50 lb bag of some kind of white rice. Then he turned around and the shelving on the other side was full, with smaller bags of rice. He got the two bags I wanted. I guess the run on rice had been families who use a lot more rice than us, since it was only the 50 lb bags that had been emptied off the shelves.



That, and, in times of crisis, I think people overestimate how much they're going to need. People who don't normally buy 50 lb bags of rice would probably think it's better to get one now.

And you know what I'm thinking... I think this virus has been here for a long time already. We just didn't know it until they started testing people for this particular strain. Thousands upon thousands of people die every year from the flu. How do we know it wasn't coronoavirus, considering coronaviruses are actually quite common? I mean, just this morning I read a news article that a nursing home discovered 50 of its employees were infected. *Fifty*. Granted it's in Washington State where most of the virus is located, but either this thing spreads faster than any bug I've ever seen in my lifetime or it's been here the whole time.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 14, 2020)

Linda0818 said:


> And you know what I'm thinking... I think this virus has been here for a long time already. We just didn't know it until they started testing people for this particular strain. Thousands upon thousands of people die every year from the flu. How do we know it wasn't coronoavirus, considering coronaviruses are actually quite common? I mean, just this morning I read a news article that a nursing home discovered 50 of its employees were infected. *Fifty*. Granted it's in Washington State where most of the virus is located, but either this thing spreads faster than any bug I've ever seen in my lifetime or it's been here the whole time.



We discussed this yesterday at work. Several of us, me included, have had respiratory problems for several weeks. We tested negative for influenza A & B, no temps, just general feeling crappy with bad headaches and coughs. We are all under 70 years old and in mostly good health. However, we had several of our residents get sick with pneumonia and die. Did we make them sick? Did they have CoronaVirus that turned into pneumonia in their weakened state? We don't know.

The facility is now closed to visitors, vendors and volunteers. Only those employees on schedule are allowed in. We are all being screened for cough and temperature before we start a shift.  Office staff are not allowed in care areas or the dining rooms. I have a separate entrance to my office, but if I need to go to medical records, I have to walk outside the building. (Naturally we had a blizzard yesterday.) 

Anyway, I'm at risk because of my recent surgery and my boss is trying to get me access so I can do as much work at home as possible. Still have to do observations and assessments, fully gowned, gloved and masked, if I need to interview residents.


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## Linda0818 (Mar 14, 2020)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> We discussed this yesterday at work. Several of us, me included, have had respiratory problems for several weeks. We tested negative for influenza A & B, no temps, just general feeling crappy with bad headaches and coughs. We are all under 70 years old and in mostly good health. However, we had several of our residents get sick with pneumonia and die. Did we make them sick? Did they have CoronaVirus that turned into pneumonia in their weakened state? We don't know.
> 
> The facility is now closed to visitors, vendors and volunteers. Only those employees on schedule are allowed in. We are all being screened for cough and temperature before we start a shift.  Office staff are not allowed in care areas or the dining rooms. I have a separate entrance to my office, but if I need to go to medical records, I have to walk outside the building. (Naturally we had a blizzard yesterday.)
> 
> Anyway, I'm at risk because of my recent surgery and my boss is trying to get me access so I can do as much work at home as possible. Still have to do observations and assessments, fully gowned, gloved and masked, if I need to interview residents.



Yes, same thing here, the nursing homes/assisted living facilities are closed to the public. I suppose that could help in containing the virus. But if the employees have it, it's not going to matter.

Since after the announcement came from China, it was almost instant that this virus was being picked up on in other countries. That's why I think it's already been all over the world, even before this particular strain was discovered, but nobody knew it because no one was being tested for this specific virus.

Then there's the theory that the reason it was found so quickly in other countries is because China kept it under wraps for too long and didn't 'blow the whistle' soon enough and by the time they blew that whistle, it was already out. 

And, as far as I know, we still don't know the source. Bats? Some other weird animal they eat? I don't think any one person knows exactly where it came from. They may just be making stuff up. I mean, yeah, they had to come up with a quick excuse once they knew the virus was being discovered outside their region. And then Dr. Li, the Chinese "whistleblower", who was only 34, mysteriously dies, supposedly from the virus, after he let the cat out of the bag? 

_Taken from an article...

"Li is one of several whistleblowers in the medical profession who tried to sound the alarm but were apparently shut down by authorities in the crucial first weeks of the outbreak."_

This might be a stretch, but there are people who believe this virus was man-made for biomedical warfare. I'm on the fence about the whole thing personally, because I don't know _what_ to believe.


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## taxlady (Mar 14, 2020)

Linda0818 said:


> That, and, in times of crisis, I think people overestimate how much they're going to need. People who don't normally buy 50 lb bags of rice would probably think it's better to get one now.
> 
> And you know what I'm thinking... *I think this virus has been here for a long time already.* We just didn't know it until they started testing people for this particular strain. Thousands upon thousands of people die every year from the flu. How do we know it wasn't coronoavirus, considering coronaviruses are actually quite common? I mean, just this morning I read a news article that a nursing home discovered 50 of its employees were infected. *Fifty*. Granted it's in Washington State where most of the virus is located, but either this thing spreads faster than any bug I've ever seen in my lifetime or it's been here the whole time.



When you write "a long time", do you mean for many weeks? Or do you mean since before the outbreak started in China?


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## Linda0818 (Mar 14, 2020)

taxlady said:


> When you write "a long time", do you mean for many weeks? Or do you mean since before the outbreak started in China?



Since before the outbreak started. That's just a guess, however.



taxlady said:


> Do we have, or should we have a thread with corona-virus concerns, etc.?



I think it might be a good idea. This thing is far from over and people are scared, worried, concerned, etc. Might be a good way for all of us to help each other get through this. Sometimes it helps to talk about it and there aren't any coronavirus-specific threads here, that I know of.


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## taxlady (Mar 14, 2020)

I really doubt that the corona virus was anywhere but in some Chinese animals before the first patient in China got it and they told the world about it. They released the genome of the virus and I think scientists somewhere would have noticed if it was a virus that had been running around in people before the Chinese told the world about it.


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## Linda0818 (Mar 14, 2020)

taxlady said:


> I really doubt that the corona virus was anywhere but in some Chinese animals before the first patient in China got it and they told the world about it. They released the genome of the virus and I think scientists somewhere would have noticed if it was a virus that had been running around in people before the Chinese told the world about it.



You would think so. I've thought about that as well. 

It's no surprise they get all these crazy illnesses. I watch Bizarre Foods and have seen many different parts of Asia and it's unbelievable the things they eat. A lot of it started from necessity and ballooned into delicacies.


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## taxlady (Mar 14, 2020)

Let's be careful about how we talk about the food choices of other cultures. There are people in North America who eat wild game and some of the wild ungulates (hoofed animals like deer, bison, cows, etc.) carry tuberculosis.


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## GotGarlic (Mar 14, 2020)

taxlady said:


> Do we have, or should we have a thread with corona-virus concerns, etc.?


We definitely should separate this topic from a thread with a completely different purpose.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 14, 2020)

Create your thread and I will work on getting things shifted. Trying to work from home, so the more you can do, it all helps.


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## GotGarlic (Mar 14, 2020)

taxlady said:


> When you write "a long time", do you mean for many weeks? Or do you mean since before the outbreak started in China?





Linda0818 said:


> Since before the outbreak started. That's just a guess, however.


That's just not true and I think it's not a great idea to make guesses about something this serious. Scientists can learn a great deal about a virus from examining its genome. The reason this particular one is so contagious is because it can be spread for at least two weeks by people who are infected but don't have symptoms. So they don't even know they have it.

Scientists have recently learned that this virus can live for a few days on some surfaces, and it stays airborne for hours, so it shouldn't be surprising that it spread rapidly in a nursing home filled with of elderly patients with compromised immune systems and serious underlying health problems. Staff in nursing homes deal with patients' most intimate needs.

I also think we should all have compassion for people who are suddenly feeling desperate. We don't know what their stories are.


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## GotGarlic (Mar 14, 2020)

Will do, right now! 





PrincessFiona60 said:


> Create your thread and I will work on getting things shifted. Trying to work from home, so the more you can do, it all helps.


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## GotGarlic (Mar 14, 2020)

Based on the discussion in the Petty Vents thread, it looks like a number of us would like to discuss the outbreak. This thread is for that purpose. Princess Fiona will be moving posts from that thread here.


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## taxlady (Mar 14, 2020)

I'm wondering what precautions should be taken with deliveries. Should we disinfect the outsides of any containers that we receive, like canned vegis or packages of pasta?

Does anyone know a food safe way to make sure that our produce doesn't have active corona virus on its surface? What about leafy produce? How important is it to try to do something about that?


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## Linda0818 (Mar 14, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> That's just not true and I think it's not a great idea to make guesses about something this serious. Scientists can learn a great deal about a virus from examining its genome. The reason this particular one is so contagious is because it can be spread for at least two weeks by people who are infected but don't have symptoms. So they don't even know they have it.
> 
> Scientists have recently learned that this virus can live for a few days on some surfaces, and it stays airborne for hours, so it shouldn't be surprising that it spread rapidly in a nursing home filled with of elderly patients with compromised immune systems and serious underlying health problems. Staff in nursing homes deal with patients' most intimate needs.
> 
> I also think we should all have compassion for people who are suddenly feeling desperate. We don't know what their stories are.



You make good points and you're probably right. I'm not trying to make 'educated' guesses, however. They're just thoughts, nothing more.


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## GotGarlic (Mar 14, 2020)

Linda0818 said:


> Yes, same thing here, the nursing homes/assisted living facilities are closed to the public. I suppose that could help in containing the virus. But if the employees have it, it's not going to matter.
> 
> Since after the announcement came from China, it was almost instant that this virus was being picked up on in other countries. That's why I think it's already been all over the world, even before this particular strain was discovered, but nobody knew it because no one was being tested for this specific virus.
> 
> ...


It was found weeks later in other countries, not immediately. The reason is that people travel all over the world now, including from China, to many other countries. The first known case in the United States flew in to Washington state from Wuhan, China in January. Scientists know coronavirus is not the flu because they don't look the same under high magnification. 

This is a timeline of the coronavirus outbreak in Washington state. Scroll down to the first case reported in January. It will make for great background reading while PF moves these posts to the new thread for coronavirus [emoji2]

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/co...timeline-outbreak/IM65JK66N5BYTIAPZ3FUZSKMUE/


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## Linda0818 (Mar 14, 2020)

taxlady said:


> I'm wondering what precautions should be taken with deliveries. Should we disinfect the outsides of any containers that we receive, like canned vegis or packages of pasta?
> 
> Does anyone know a food safe way to make sure that our produce doesn't have active corona virus on its surface? What about leafy produce? How important is it to try to do something about that?



I just did some looking around and found that there's very little risk of the virus surviving on packages letters, etc, so the chance of contracting the virus from delivered packages - at least according to the article - is extremely low. 

As for objects (canned goods and other packaged foods) that we buy in the store, that I'm not certain of, although I imagine the same low risk would apply to them as well. 

I always wash produce, so I hope that's good enough.


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## Linda0818 (Mar 14, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> It was found weeks later in other countries, not immediately. The reason is that people travel all over the world now, including from China, to many other countries. The first known case in the United States flew in to Washington state from Wuhan, China in January. Scientists know coronavirus is not the flu because they don't look the same under high magnification.
> 
> This is a timeline of the coronavirus outbreak in Washington state. Scroll down to the first case reported in January. It will make for great background reading while PF moves these posts to the new thread for coronavirus [emoji2]
> 
> https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/co...timeline-outbreak/IM65JK66N5BYTIAPZ3FUZSKMUE/



Thanks, GG, I'll give it a read. I guess I'm just a little freaked out by all of this.


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## Linda0818 (Mar 14, 2020)

taxlady said:


> Let's be careful about how we talk about the food choices of other cultures. There are people in North America who eat wild game and some of the wild ungulates (hoofed animals like deer, bison, cows, etc.) carry tuberculosis.



I wasn't trying to be insulting.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 14, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> Based on the discussion in the Petty Vents thread, it looks like a number of us would like to discuss the outbreak. This thread is for that purpose. Princess Fiona will be moving posts from that thread here.



Sorry, GG.  It won't let me change date//time so this would appear as the first post.

Back to my chart assessments.


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## GotGarlic (Mar 14, 2020)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> Sorry, GG.  It won't let me change date//time so this would appear as the first post.
> 
> Back to my chart assessments.


I know you're doing the best you can  Take care!


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 14, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> I know you're doing the best you can  Take care!



Thanks, Dear...will do! <Vulcan Greeting>


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## GotGarlic (Mar 14, 2020)

Linda0818 said:


> Thanks, GG, I'll give it a read. I guess I'm just a little freaked out by all of this.


I think we all are. When I'm stressed about something like this (hurricanes lol), I consume information voraciously. But as I've said many times, I'm very selective about the sources I use. I want reliable information, so I don't do a general search and click on the first few results. For health topics, I usually look at large well-known universities. I also read news sources that I trust. I don't use blogs from unknown people for things this serious.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 14, 2020)

The CDC is working on this https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/summary.html

Also try CMS.gov

WHrg


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## Linda0818 (Mar 14, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> I know you're doing the best you can  Take care!



A big thanks from me as well 



GotGarlic said:


> I think we all are. When I'm stressed about something like this (hurricanes lol), I consume information voraciously. But as I've said many times, I'm very selective about the sources I use. I want reliable information, so I don't do a general search and click on the first few results. For health topics, I usually look at large well-known universities. I also read news sources that I trust. I don't use blogs from unknown people for things this serious.



I do the same. Many sources out there just aren't credible.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 14, 2020)

I also encourage checking with Public Health in your location for special instructions.

Folks from other countries check your public health organizations. 

For instance, our facility is going by CMS Guidelines, we are Medicare/Medicaid Certified, if state guidelines are more stringent we integrate those into our response, down to county and city. We use the most stringent.

A few upset families, but for the most part, families are happy with how we are handling the safety and health of their loved ones.


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## taxlady (Mar 14, 2020)

Linda0818 said:


> I just did some looking around and found that there's very little risk of the virus surviving on packages letters, etc, so the chance of contracting the virus from delivered packages - at least according to the article - is extremely low.
> 
> As for objects (canned goods and other packaged foods) that we buy in the store, that I'm not certain of, although I imagine the same low risk would apply to them as well.
> 
> I always wash produce, so I hope that's good enough.



I wasn't thinking so much of delivered packages as delivered groceries. Also, when something is delivered, it has been touched by the delivery person, meaning that it has been recently handled. If the delivery person, who is being exposed to lots of different people, is contagious, any virus won't have had much time to become inactive. The canned goods, I was thinking of the people in the stores who stock the shelves and the ones who pack the groceries for delivery possibly contaminating them. I suspect I'm trying to be overcautious.

Washing produce is definitely a good idea, but is washing in water good enough? Should we take other steps? Is there something food safe that we can add to the water that would do the trick?


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 14, 2020)

One cap of bleach to a gallon of water in a spray bottle will disinfect the canned goods, etc. Spray it on and allow to dry. Do not wipe off!

Do not allow delivery into your house, have them set it down outside.

Quick dip in same solution for produce, allow to air dry, rinse well. Dip solution can be cold, you are relying on the bleach to disinfect, not heat of water.

No other suggestions at this point.

Wash your hands in warm water, using soap. Lather for at least 20 seconds and rinse well.  I've taken to wearing medical gloves when I go to the store.


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## Linda0818 (Mar 14, 2020)

taxlady said:


> I wasn't thinking so much of delivered packages as delivered groceries. Also, when something is delivered, it has been touched by the delivery person, meaning that it has been recently handled. If the delivery person, who is being exposed to lots of different people, is contagious, any virus won't have had much time to become inactive. *The canned goods, I was thinking of the people in the stores who stock the shelves and the ones who pack the groceries for delivery possibly contaminating them*. I suspect I'm trying to be overcautious.
> 
> Washing produce is definitely a good idea, but is washing in water good enough? Should we take other steps? Is there something food safe that we can add to the water that would do the trick?



Yes, I was thinking the same thing. And not just the people who stock the items, but the customers in the store who pick things up, check them out for several seconds, then put them back on the shelf.


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## taxlady (Mar 14, 2020)

Thanks for that info PF. Any idea how much a cap of bleach is in ml or teaspoons/tablespoons? I don't think all bottles of bleach have the same size of caps.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 14, 2020)

5 ml or 1  tsp


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## taxlady (Mar 14, 2020)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> 5 ml or 1  tsp



Thank you.


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## Whiskadoodle (Mar 14, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> I think we all are. When I'm stressed about something like this (hurricanes lol), I consume information voraciously. But as I've said many times, I'm very selective about the sources I use. I want reliable information, so I don't do a general search and click on the first few results. For health topics, I usually look at large well-known universities. I also read news sources that I trust. I don't use blogs from unknown people for things this serious.



One of the things I appreciate about SO is how thoroughly  she does research on anything,  health issues being a top interest/ topic right now.   I don't seem to have a long attention span so she compensates for me and prints  article(s) out.  Then, she updates later along with reprints.   Great for discussion.  
--

We had purchased tickets for Disney on Ice for granddaughter's birthday along with their family.   Tickets bought months ago, so much anticipation on our part and a swell surprise for the littles.  We both independently / reluctantly decided a couple days ago we would not attend,   SO is well recovered from a post surgery  brain infection  but months later is still shy about crowds.  My lungs are compromised/ a wee bit wheezy due to years of smoking.  I thought this was supposed to clear up once you quit smoking, guess not in my case.   Anyway Disney cancelled.  I realize this is no biggy compared to a myriad of other things.    
--

The Littles know the happy birthday song, so we can hear when they wash their hands. They push speed dial and sing to us.  Cute.  I pity their pre school teachers who probably hear it live and in surround sound  all day.  
--


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## Cooking Goddess (Mar 14, 2020)

Linda0818 said:


> Well... I mean... if your state/city/etc. requires a mandatory quarantine period, for at 14 days, no one would want to deal with running out of toilet paper ...


I heard an interesting segment on Wednesday's NPR Marketplace. A woman was relating her and her husband's experience with their regular, quarterly trip to Costco and how the paper/cleaning aisles were vast wastelands of empty shelves. She called a friend to report; the friend told her that Home Depot still had TP in stock (Lowe's carries paper products like TP and paper towels, too) and advised her to hurry over. When the story teller and her hubby got to Home Depot there was still quite a bit of stock. After plucking one 24-double roll package off the shelf, she turned to her husband and asked if they should buy more. His reply? "I think 24 double rolls of TP are more than enough for a two-week quarantine".   Himself also hear on a new report that there is a local newspaper somewhere that is leaving 8 pages blank for...just in case. 

Like Andy mentioned in a different thread, grocery stores by us are adequately stocked except for the cleaning and paper products, along with a few other interesting items. Peanut butter? Practically gone - but lots of jelly and  jam on the shelves. And all of the 2.5 ounce chocolate bars in the same aisle.  No cans of baked beans on the shelves (I think we now know why people are grabbing TP so much). And ALL of the cleaning aids shelves were bare. Do people not clean when things are "normal"? On the other hand, a friend in Columbus posted a photo of the "Groveland" (Grove City?) Kroger produce aisle - two bags of potatoes. That's it in the potato and onion aisle.


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## Linda0818 (Mar 14, 2020)

Cooking Goddess said:


> I heard an interesting segment on Wednesday's NPR Marketplace. A woman was relating her and her husband's experience with their regular, quarterly trip to Costco and how the paper/cleaning aisles were vast wastelands of empty shelves. She called a friend to report; the friend told her that Home Depot still had TP in stock (Lowe's carries paper products like TP and paper towels, too) and advised her to hurry over. When the story teller and her hubby got to Home Depot there was still quite a bit of stock. After plucking one 24-double roll package off the shelf, she turned to her husband and asked if they should buy more. His reply? "I think 24 double rolls of TP are more than enough for a two-week quarantine".   Himself also hear on a new report that there is a local newspaper somewhere that is leaving 8 pages blank for...just in case.
> 
> Like Andy mentioned in a different thread, grocery stores by us are adequately stocked except for the cleaning and paper products, along with a few other interesting items. Peanut butter? Practically gone - but lots of jelly and  jam on the shelves. And all of the 2.5 ounce chocolate bars in the same aisle.  No cans of baked beans on the shelves (I think we now know why people are grabbing TP so much). And ALL of the cleaning aids shelves were bare. Do people not clean when things are "normal"? On the other hand, a friend in Columbus posted a photo of the "Groveland" (Grove City?) Kroger produce aisle - two bags of potatoes. That's it in the potato and onion aisle.



Yeah, that's probably Grove City, where I do my shopping as well. Glad I grabbed a sack of potatoes yesterday!

Toilet paper pretty much everywhere is gone. Beans are inexpensive, nutritious and filling, so no surprise there either. 

But yeah, will need lots of TP after eating all of those


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## kleenex (Mar 15, 2020)

Sure you stock up on the necessities like....

Blue packaging Charmin Mega sized rolls of toilet paper that recently got cut down by 20 sheets a roll.

ORRRR....

Lays Party sized bags of potato chips that have recently been cut by 2.25 ounces.....

Hoard now so you do not have to buy later


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## Artur422 (Mar 15, 2020)

im work in the supermarkets in Holand and its amazing how fast  shelfs become empty with macarons, rice and paper.


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## skilletlicker (Mar 15, 2020)

It'd take some doing for me to get more socially distant than I already am.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 15, 2020)

skilletlicker said:


> It'd take some doing for me to get more socially distant than I already am.



I was thinking the same thing about me. I go to work, I come home. Shop every two weeks.


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## medtran49 (Mar 15, 2020)

They've  closed all schools starting tomorrow in the Miami and Fort Lauderdale area.  Wonder what people with young children are going to do if they are still supposed to work?


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## Cooking Goddess (Mar 15, 2020)

skilletlicker said:


> It'd take some doing for me to get more socially distant than I already am.


*Socially* distant? All this time I thought I was supposed to be _emotionally_ distant. *phew* It's good to know that I can care again.

*medtran*, the Ohio governor tossed out the possibility of the remaining part of the school year being scrapped. It could end up being a six-month summer vacation if that happens. 


One interesting point I heard during the COVID-19 presser was that the target body temperature for "seniors", or those 65 and up, is only 99.6. If you are in that group (which I know many of us are), and your fever reading is 99.6 or above, it's time to get thee to a medical facility -or at least call to have your symptoms assessed.


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## taxlady (Mar 15, 2020)

Cooking Goddess said:


> *Socially* distant? All this time I thought I was supposed to be _emotionally_ distant. *phew* It's good to know that I can care again.
> 
> *medtran*, the Ohio governor tossed out the possibility of the remaining part of the school year being scrapped. It could end up being a six-month summer vacation if that happens.
> 
> ...


Most places are saying to call. DO NOT JUST SHOW UP. They may have specific clinics or hospitals. They may have special entrances. They may want to give you an appointment, to manage how many people are there at once. They may want to give you special instructions. Here in Quebec, we have a special phone number to call.


----------



## Andy M. (Mar 15, 2020)

I was talking with my daughter the other day about the whole corona virus situation and actions we needed to take, such as remaining socially distant. She commented that her friend and I were the only people she knew who were excited about being ordered to be socially distant. I pointed out that it wasn't a pandemic action, it was a lifestyle choice.


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 15, 2020)

medtran49 said:


> They've  closed all schools starting tomorrow in the Miami and Fort Lauderdale area.  Wonder what people with young children are going to do if they are still supposed to work?


Yesterday Virginia's governor declared that all K-12 schools here are closed for two weeks starting tomorrow. I'm wondering the same thing. I t we're heading in the direction Italy has gone - they've closed everything except food stores, pharmacies and medical facilities. The government needs to come up with a way to keep people going for a while.


----------



## roadfix (Mar 16, 2020)

Have some reserve cash on hand too.   You never know...


----------



## skilletlicker (Mar 16, 2020)

Andy M. said:


> ...I pointed out that it wasn't a pandemic action, it was a lifestyle choice.


Reading above with an inferred .

Curmudgeons and battle-axes among us will move a step further toward misanthropy. Folks who are already pathologically antisocial under one banner or another, will exact a higher price on civil society.


----------



## Cooking Goddess (Mar 16, 2020)

Andy M. said:


> ...my daughter...commented that her friend and I were the only people she knew who were excited about being ordered to be socially distant. I pointed out that it wasn't a pandemic action, it was a lifestyle choice.


I'm a homebody, Himself even more so. When they started advising people to stay home we said "so like normal day around here, huh?" And when I am standing and talking to someone, there are times I wish "Don't Stand so Close to Me" by the Police was playing in the background.


----------



## RCJoe (Mar 16, 2020)

Ohio Governer DeWine announced all restaruant lobbies & bars will be closed as of today.  Take out and drive thru will be open to the public.  School bus drivers will deliver meals at stops where students would normally wait.  Churches and Town Council meetings will be (or try to be) streamed live to computers/cell phones. Walmarts will be open only 6am to 11 pm. 

Some Car Dealers are setting up to distribute boxed meals to the public as distribution centers.  Facilities unnamed will prep those meals and drop them off there. 

TV Stations are streaming updates across the bottom of the screen and suggesting to visit the station's website for more detailed information.

So, what's everybody got in the freezer, fridge, pantry, and survival stores to cook

I'm checking out Super Cook's, and some other website now. (builds recipes based on ingredients you have onhand to cook with)

https://www.supercook.com/#/recipes 

https://myfridgefood.com/ 

https://bgr.com/2017/03/02/dinner-ideas-recipes-myfridgefood/

https://recipeland.com/recipes/by_ingredient


----------



## bbqcoder (Mar 16, 2020)

Cooking Goddess said:


> And ALL of the cleaning aids shelves were bare. Do people not clean when things are "normal"?



I stopped by Market Basket yesterday morning for the first time in more than a week.  There were still cleaning products but I'm not sure if they're disinfecting products.  Products that had the words "disinfecting/disinfectant" were all gone.

In the meats aisle, there were very little chicken & ground beef.  Plenty of pork, lamb, corned beef and regular steaks.  

I didn't see any shortage of vegetables/fruits/seafood.


----------



## Linda0818 (Mar 16, 2020)

I too am already socially distant. I work and I grocery shop and that's about it, with the exception of going out to eat once in a while with my son and/or my cousin. 

I'm wondering, though (since we've decided not to go out to eat for a while) about take-out food. Should we or shouldn't we?


----------



## roadfix (Mar 16, 2020)

I’m just waiting for people to reach a point of overstocking.   ...running out of shelf and freezer space in their homes.  Then I’ll go shopping.  No panic buying here.


----------



## Linda0818 (Mar 16, 2020)

Just heard that our governor has ordered all bars and restaurants to shut down.



Here we go...


----------



## taxlady (Mar 16, 2020)

Linda0818 said:


> I too am already socially distant. I work and I grocery shop and that's about it, with the exception of going out to eat once in a while with my son and/or my cousin.
> 
> I'm wondering, though (since we've decided not to go out to eat for a while) about take-out food. Should we or shouldn't we?



"They" are saying that take out and delivery should be safe. The risk of spread is highest when there are people too close together. Personally, we are going with delivery from restos. The fewer people out and about, the less risk for the people who need to be out and about.


----------



## msmofet (Mar 16, 2020)

I'm concerned about how safe "raw or uncooked" food is. Such as salads (all types of cold salads), cold cuts, sushi and the like are.


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## GotGarlic (Mar 16, 2020)

msmofet said:


> I'm concerned about how safe "raw or uncooked" food is. Such as salads (all types of cold salads), cold cuts, sushi and the like are.


This is from the Washington Post. I have a subscription, but I understand they have removed the paywall from stories about coronavirus. Let me know if you can't read it. 

Headline: The good news about food safety and coronavirus: It’s the same advice we’ve known all alon

Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rus-its-the-same-advice-weve-known-all-along/


----------



## msmofet (Mar 16, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> This is from the Washington Post. I have a subscription, but I understand they have removed the paywall from stories about coronavirus. Let me know if you can't read it.
> 
> Headline: The good news about food safety and coronavirus: It’s the same advice we’ve known all alon
> 
> Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rus-its-the-same-advice-weve-known-all-along/


 Thank you.

My post was concerning pick up/delivered/fast foods: From restos, delis, online shopping etc.


----------



## msmofet (Mar 16, 2020)

In my part of NJ the shelves are empty for the most part. Hub and both DD's work at supermarkets. Police are at the stores to keep order. 
When product comes in it doesn't make it to the shelves before people go crazy and the boxes/cases are emptied. The butchers put out meats and they are gone in minutes. Fights are breaking out over products. How much do they really need? 

I am worried for my family members safety. 

When will the greedy pigs people have enough? So normal people can get some necessities?


----------



## Cooking Goddess (Mar 16, 2020)

Linda0818 said:


> Just heard that our governor has ordered all bars and restaurants to shut down.
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go...


I'm from OH, so I follow what's going on back home just as close as I do for MA. One of our friends lives in the Columbus area and posted this on Facebook today. I think it's a good explanation of why so many governors in so many states are making everything grind to a halt.

"From a Columbus nostalgia group:

A possible reason why the Arnold Classic was postponed or canceled.  This is not a political post. 

Someone is doing their research in Ohio's State Health Team.

Yesterday Governor DeWine mentioned Philadelphia's disastrous response to the 1919 Worldwide Flu epidemic.

By mid-September 1918, the Spanish flu was spreading like wildfire through army and naval installations in Philadelphia, but Wilmer Krusen, Philadelphia’s public health director, assured the public that the stricken soldiers were only suffering from the old-fashioned seasonal flu and it would be contained before infecting the civilian population.
When the first few civilian cases were reported on September 21, local physicians worried that this could be the start of an epidemic, but Krusen and his medical board said Philadelphians could lower their risk of catching the flu by staying warm, keeping their feet dry and their “bowels open,” writes John M. Barry in The Great Influenza: The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History.
As civilian infection rates climbed day by day, Krusen refused to cancel the upcoming Liberty Loan parade scheduled for September 28. Barry writes that infectious disease experts warned Krusen that the parade, which was expected to attract several hundred thousand Philadelphians, would be “a ready-made inflammable mass for a conflagration.”
Krusen insisted that the parade must go on, since it would raise millions of dollars in war bonds, and he played down the danger of spreading the disease. On September 28, a patriotic procession of soldiers, Boy Scouts, marching bands and local dignitaries stretched two miles through downtown Philadelphia with sidewalks packed with spectators.
Just 72 hours after the parade, all 31 of Philadelphia’s hospitals were full and 2,600 people were dead by the end of the week.
George Dehner, author of Global Flu and You: A History of Influenza, says that while Krusen’s decision to hold the parade was absolutely a “bad idea,” Philadelphia’s infection rate was already accelerating by late September.
So with an estimated 200,000 coming from around the world for the Arnold Classic, this perhaps was a precedent that was part of the decision making."


----------



## TATTRAT (Mar 16, 2020)

I just wanted to wish everyone well-being, safety and a healthy outcome from all of this.

Like all good meals, this too shall pass.


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 16, 2020)

msmofet said:


> Thank you.
> 
> My post was concerning pick up/delivered/fast foods: From restos, delis, online shopping etc.


I know. Read this in particular: "According to the USDA, “We are not aware of any reports at this time of human illnesses that suggest covid-19 can be transmitted by food or food packaging.”

No evidence it can be transmitted by food or food packaging. To me that would include takeout and delivery. Restaurants in the United States, and I'm sure Canada, have stringent, long-standing food safety requirements, including staff wearing gloves for during food preparation and packaging for delivery and changing them frequently. I don't think it's a concern.


----------



## Linda0818 (Mar 16, 2020)

msmofet said:


> In my part of NJ the shelves are empty for the most part. Hub and both DD's work at supermarkets. Police are at the stores to keep order.
> When product comes in it doesn't make it to the shelves before people go crazy and the boxes/cases are emptied. The butchers put out meats and they are gone in minutes. Fights are breaking out over products. How much do they really need?
> 
> I am worried for my family members safety.
> ...



Unfortunately, those greedy people don't _care_ about anyone else. As long as this thing lives, they'll probably continue to take whatever they can get their hands on.



Cooking Goddess said:


> I'm from OH, so I follow what's going on back home just as close as I do for MA. One of our friends lives in the Columbus area and posted this on Facebook today. I think it's a good explanation of why so many governors in so many states are making everything grind to a halt.
> 
> "From a Columbus nostalgia group:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the read. And don't get me wrong, I completely agree with shutting things down. It's just it tends to make the natives restless and craziness ensues, which is why I said "Here we go..."

Let the madness begin! 

They announced new places that are shutting down as of the close of business today: water parks (most definitely!) and other indoor fun parks, gyms, bowling alleys, movie theaters, etc. Even the streets and highways are more bare than usual.


----------



## msmofet (Mar 16, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> I know. Read this in particular: "According to the USDA, “We are not aware of any reports at this time of human illnesses that suggest covid-19 can be transmitted by food or food packaging.”
> 
> No evidence it can be transmitted by food or food packaging. To me that would include takeout and delivery. Restaurants in the United States, and I'm sure Canada, have stringent, long-standing food safety requirements, including staff wearing gloves for during food preparation and packaging for delivery and changing them frequently. I don't think it's a concern.


Gloves yes but what about masks. This virus can travel 10 feet on a cough or sneeze. When slicing cold cuts, preparing sushi or salads etc. the worker is a lot closer to the food than 10 feet and must exhale at some point.


----------



## msmofet (Mar 16, 2020)

NJ has an 8:00 pm to 5:00 am curfew. Need to stay at home/inside except if you need to go to work. DD's heard that possibly supermarkets will be closed early.


----------



## Linda0818 (Mar 16, 2020)

msmofet said:


> NJ has an 8:00 pm to 5:00 am curfew. Need to stay at home/inside except if you need to go to work. DD's heard that possibly supermarkets will be closed early.



Stores here are limiting their hours so they can spend extra time cleaning and restocking.

That's what depresses me the most, the way people are acting. Fights breaking out over toilet paper? Come on. Then you've got idiots making the problem worse, like the psycho woman who posted a video of herself licking a toilet seat on an airplane, encouraging people to take the "coronavirus challenge", daring others to do the same thing.

Yeah, sorry, but there are no neurons firing in that brain of hers. None whatsoever. And I'm not a violent person, but I'd pay money to knock her upside the head.


----------



## msmofet (Mar 16, 2020)

I was on my town/county websites. They are providing *ALL* children pre-k - high school (private and public schools) lunches free of charge.


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 16, 2020)

msmofet said:


> Gloves yes but what about masks. This virus can travel 10 feet on a cough or sneeze. When slicing cold cuts, preparing sushi or salads etc. the worker is a lot closer to the food than 10 feet and must exhale at some point.


With the seriousness of this pandemic, I honestly doubt that restaurant managers and owners will allow any staff who are coughing or sneezing to make food. I understand that in normal times, people who are sick might work anyway, but these are not normal times. I know several restaurant owners locally and I would be embarrassed even to ask them if they're allowing obviously sick people to cook or prepare food. It's unthinkable.


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 16, 2020)

Linda0818 said:


> Unfortunately, those greedy people don't _care_ about anyone else. As long as this thing lives, they'll probably continue to take whatever they can get their hands on.


I'm sure there are a few people like that, but I think the majority of panic buying over the weekend was because so many schools, professional sports, etc., closed all of a sudden. Now, people have children at home and see how serious it is. I don't think it will continue - stores will restock this week. 



Linda0818 said:


> Thanks for the read. And don't get me wrong, I completely agree with shutting things down. It's just it tends to make the natives restless and craziness ensues, which is why I said "Here we go..."
> 
> Let the madness begin! [emoji38]
> 
> They announced new places that are shutting down as of the close of business today: water parks (most definitely!) and other indoor fun parks, gyms, bowling alleys, movie theaters, etc. Even the streets and highways are more bare than usual.


I have a friend who lives in Italy who posts daily updates. Everything is closed except food stores, pharmacies and medical facilities. Schools are gearing up to provide free meals for children K-12. There will be a period of adjustment and all we can do is the best we can do. I came across this today and I really like it.


----------



## Rascal (Mar 16, 2020)

Everything pretty normal here in nz, except toilet paper,lol. Hell,the factory is 20 mins from me. No gatherings of over 500 people. No sports or concerts, schools only just open. 80% flights cancelled, arrivals must self isolate 14 days.

Russ


----------



## Cooking Goddess (Mar 16, 2020)

Nice to see you pop in, Rascal. Stay safe down under.


One item I heard on NPR Marketplace today (yes, I'm a Kai Ryssdal fan-girl [emoji38] ) was that we all need to practice cyber safety even more diligently right now. Links to articles on Corona virus from non-trusted sources have an increased risk of infecting your computer. *sigh*


----------



## taxlady (Mar 16, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> I'm sure there are a few people like that, but I think the majority of panic buying over the weekend was because so many schools, professional sports, etc., closed all of a sudden. Now, people have children at home and see how serious it is. I don't think it will continue - stores will restock this week.
> 
> 
> I have a friend who lives in Italy who posts daily updates. Everything is closed except food stores, pharmacies and medical facilities. Schools are gearing up to provide free meals for children K-12. There will be a period of adjustment and all we can do is the best we can do. I came across this today and I really like it.
> View attachment 39761



That's absolutely lovely (what it says in the attachment). If most of us stay at home, then the people who need to go out will be at less risk and be able to go about their business quickly. Really, we are all in this together and if we stay home, we might successfully flatten the contagion curve. That will allow the hospitals to have enough resources for those who really need them. If we don't, then more people will die, also from other types of emergencies.


----------



## taxlady (Mar 16, 2020)

Cooking Goddess said:


> Nice to see you pop in, Rascal. Stay safe down under.
> 
> 
> One item I heard on NPR Marketplace today (yes, I'm a Kai Ryssdal fan-girl [emoji38] ) was that we all need to practice cyber safety even more diligently right now. Links to articles on Corona virus from non-trusted sources have an increased risk of infecting your computer. *sigh*



There is even an app or three that supposedly lets you see what is going on around the world. It's ransomware and hijacks Android phones.


----------



## taxlady (Mar 16, 2020)

Rascal said:


> Everything pretty normal here in nz, except toilet paper,lol. Hell,the factory is 20 mins from me. No gatherings of over 500 people. No sports or concerts, schools only just open. 80% flights cancelled, arrivals must self isolate 14 days.
> 
> Russ



Good to see you Rascal. I'm glad things are fairly normal down under. Just remember that this sort of thing tends to be worse in winter. You guys have time to prepare, if you get on it now.


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 16, 2020)

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid (CMS) has decreed "No communal dining" in nursing facilities. In a business already working short, who is going to be delivering meals room to room? Who will die from choking because they were eating in their room alone? This really puts nursing homes and the residents at risk...


----------



## taxlady (Mar 16, 2020)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid (CMS) has decreed "No communal dining" in nursing facilities. In a business already working short, who is going to be delivering meals room to room? Who will die from choking because they were eating in their room alone? This really puts nursing homes and the residents at risk...



I guess they didn't talk to anyone who ever worked in a nursing home. They could have required that people maintain some specified distance from each other. That would still put more burden on the staff, but I think it would have been a better way to do it.


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 16, 2020)

taxlady said:


> I guess they didn't talk to anyone who ever worked in a nursing home. They could have required that people maintain some specified distance from each other. That would still put more burden on the staff, but I think it would have been a better way to do it.



I agree, especially since we already have folks with possible symptoms in their rooms, why make those not showing symptoms stay in their rooms, too? It would have been smarter to let each unit go to the dining room.  Our Alzheimer's unit is going to be hell on wheels. Keep those folks in their rooms...yeah, right!


----------



## Andy M. (Mar 17, 2020)

I just saw this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnI0PHIFEMA


----------



## taxlady (Mar 17, 2020)

When I am dealing with the kind of faucet where you can't turn it on or off with your wrist or elbow, I have a little routine. I lather my hands and then wash the faucet knobs with my soapy hands. I then finish washing my hands and do a preliminary rinse and then wipe the soap off the knobs with my hands. Then I continue rinsing my hands. That way when I touch the knobs with my clean hands to turn off the water, I am touching clean knobs.


----------



## msmofet (Mar 17, 2020)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> One cap of bleach to a gallon of water in a spray bottle will disinfect the canned goods, etc. Spray it on and allow to dry. Do not wipe off!


 


PrincessFiona60 said:


> 5 ml or 1 tsp


 
I don't have much bleach. Wasn't any left last week when DD looked for some. I just put 1/4 tsp. bleach in a quart mason jar and then filled a spray bottle. This can be sprayed on surfaces (counters, tables etc.) and wiped off or should it be left to dry?


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 17, 2020)

msmofet said:


> I don't have much bleach. Wasn't any left last week when DD looked for some. I just put 1/4 tsp. bleach in a quart mason jar and then filled a spray bottle. This can be sprayed on surfaces (counters, tables etc.) and wiped off or should it be left to dry?


I'm sure they'll be restocked soon, if they're not already. This is from the Cooperative Extension Service. 

PDF - Cleaning & Sanitizing the Kitchen Using inexpensive household food-safe products

https://extension.colostate.edu/docs/pubs/foodnut/kitchen-sanitize.pdf


----------



## msmofet (Mar 17, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> I'm sure they'll be restocked soon, if they're not already. This is from the Cooperative Extension Service.
> 
> PDF - Cleaning & Sanitizing the Kitchen Using inexpensive household food-safe products
> 
> https://extension.colostate.edu/docs/pubs/foodnut/kitchen-sanitize.pdf


PF says 1 tsp. to a gallon of water. That website says 1 tsp. bleach to a quart of water.


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## skilletlicker (Mar 17, 2020)

*Hand Sanitizer*

Have we talked about hand sanitizer?
I wasn't going to go to the grocery store for a while but went early this morning because in my county there have been only two confirmed coronavirus cases for several days in a row. So I says to myself it'll prolly be a long time before there are fewer folks sick with it than right now. One of the things I was hoping to get was hand sanitizer. No luck though.

Yesterday Vitamix sent me this recipe. I've seen a bunch more or less just like it. Shopped for vegetable glycerine on Amazon. The reasonably priced bottles of  8 to 32 ounces were all gone. There were some two and three-ounce bottles priced twice as high as the pints and quarts. Didn't buy those though.

So I hunted around and found a couple little bottles in an old storage bin. So whut Imagonna do is keep them filled up by replenishing with mostly rubbing alcohol plus a little hydrogen peroxide until they start to get pretty thin. Then I'll thicken them with mineral oil, peanut oil, or olive oil. Now I've read that is a bad idea cuz oils block pores and give you acne or somethin but I'm only gonna be using the stuff on those rare and brief occasions when I'm away from home. At home I'll continue to just use dishsoap and water, which I'm confident will wash the oil off my hands so I'm not too worried about gitting zits on my fingers.

I think it's a sound strategy. What do you think.


----------



## skilletlicker (Mar 17, 2020)

*Clorox Wipes*

But they didn't have those either, nor did they have the usual complimentary sanitizing wipes to treat the handle of your grocery cart. So I resolved to buy my own. Of course, they were out of those also. So next time I go anywhere, I'm going to take my own paper towels in a bag like AB had in the video posted earlier. But in addition to my little bottle of hand sanitizer, I'll also have a little bottle of diluted bleach.

By the way, msmoffet, I'd be willing to wager the exact proportions of bleach to water just isn't really all that critical. But then, that'd just be my opinion.


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 17, 2020)

msmofet said:


> PF says 1 tsp. to a gallon of water. That website says 1 tsp. bleach to a quart of water.


I can't explain the difference. I was told in culinary school that it was one capful per gallon, which is what restaurants use. I don't know exactly how much a capful is.


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 17, 2020)

skilletlicker said:


> Have we talked about hand sanitizer?
> I wasn't going to go to the grocery store for a while but went early this morning because in my county there have been only two confirmed coronavirus cases for several days in a row. So I says to myself it'll prolly be a long time before there are fewer folks sick with it than right now. One of the things I was hoping to get was hand sanitizer. No luck though.
> 
> Yesterday Vitamix sent me this recipe. I've seen a bunch more or less just like it. Shopped for vegetable glycerine on Amazon. The reasonably priced bottles of  8 to 32 ounces were all gone. There were some two and three-ounce bottles priced twice as high as the pints and quarts. Didn't buy those though.
> ...


I think it's reasonable till you find the real thing. Have you checked pharmacies or drugstores?


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 17, 2020)

skilletlicker said:


> By the way, msmoffet, I'd be willing to wager the exact proportions of bleach to water just isn't really all that critical. But then, that'd just be my opinion.


Half of the amount needed is not going to be effective. It will be too diluted to kill the virus.


----------



## Kayelle (Mar 17, 2020)

I found these "recipes" to be useful...

https://www.dhhs.nh.gov/dphs/holu/documents/hom-sani.pdf


Times have sure changed since asking a neighbor to borrow a cup of sugar, but since I have a gallon of bleach, I'd be happy to share it with those I know. You might try that MsM.


----------



## taxlady (Mar 17, 2020)

msmofet said:


> PF says 1 tsp. to a gallon of water. That website says 1 tsp. bleach to a quart of water.





GotGarlic said:


> I can't explain the difference. I was told in culinary school that it was one capful per gallon, which is what restaurants use. I don't know exactly how much a capful is.



PF was telling me how much to use on produce. And, when I asked about the cap full, she said about 5 ml / 1 teaspoon.


----------



## skilletlicker (Mar 17, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> I think it's reasonable till you find the real thing. Have you checked pharmacies or drugstores?


No, and don't intend to. This morning's grocery store trip was a one last time for a few/several weeks excursion. Shopping a bunch of retail stores in hopes of finding glycerine or Purell defeats the purpose and spirit of voluntary social withdrawal. In my limited capacity to understand the situation, people, not surfaces, are the greater risk.

But I'll give you this, GG. You never lack certitude.


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 17, 2020)

skilletlicker said:


> But I'll give you this, GG. You never lack certitude. [emoji2]


I only respond regarding things I know something about. I've taken ServSafe food handling training three times over the years and I've spent a lot of time in hospitals and talking to doctors and nurses about infection control (especially since I have a compromised immune system). I also follow a few Fb groups composed partly of people with PhDs in various research fields. I ask questions of experts. I lurk a lot in those groups. I read a lot. I can vegetables [emoji38] I know what the minimum acidity of pickles needs to be to can them safely.

Some people don't like it when women are direct and clear. C'est la vie! [emoji16]


----------



## skilletlicker (Mar 17, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> I only respond regarding things I know something about. I've taken ServSafe food handling training three times over the years and I've spent a lot of time in hospitals and talking to doctors and nurses about infection control (especially since I have a compromised immune system). I also follow a few Fb groups composed partly of people with PhDs in various research fields. I ask questions of experts. I lurk a lot in those groups. I read a lot. I can vegetables [emoji38] I know what the minimum acidity of pickles needs to be to can them safely.
> 
> Some people don't like it when women are direct and clear. C'est la vie! [emoji16]



I don't know how to respond to any of this.

So I won't.


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 17, 2020)

skilletlicker said:


> I don't know how to respond to any of this.
> 
> So I won't.


If you have something to tell me, you can send me a PM.


----------



## skilletlicker (Mar 17, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> Some people don't like it when women are direct and clear. C'est la vie! [emoji16]





			
				GotGarlic said:
			
		

> If you have something to tell me, you can send me a PM.



No thanks.


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 17, 2020)

msmofet said:


> PF says 1 tsp. to a gallon of water. That website says 1 tsp. bleach to a quart of water.



Just measured it. 1 tsp in the cap. The bleach will sanitize if diluted with a gallon of water, it has been so for many years in the restaurant industry. I think the tsp to a quart is overkill and if you use it on counters you are going to smell and taste bleach. 

We always cleaned and allowed to air dry. No rinsing required.


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 17, 2020)

skilletlicker said:


> But they didn't have those either, nor did they have the usual complimentary sanitizing wipes to treat the handle of your grocery cart. So I resolved to buy my own. Of course, they were out of those also. So next time I go anywhere, I'm going to take my own paper towels in a bag like AB had in the video posted earlier. But in addition to my little bottle of hand sanitizer, I'll also have a little bottle of diluted bleach.
> 
> *By the way, msmoffet, I'd be willing to wager the exact proportions of bleach to water just isn't really all that critical. But then, that'd just be my opinion.*



The health inspector had a meter that could tell if the bleach to water ratio was correct for sanitizing. Too much, too little, he would cite you for it. I never got cited.


----------



## taxlady (Mar 18, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> I only respond regarding things I know something about. I've taken ServSafe food handling training three times over the years and I've spent a lot of time in hospitals and talking to doctors and nurses about infection control (especially since I have a compromised immune system). I also follow a few Fb groups composed partly of people with PhDs in various research fields. I ask questions of experts. I lurk a lot in those groups. I read a lot. I can vegetables [emoji38] I know what the minimum acidity of pickles needs to be to can them safely.
> 
> Some people don't like it when women are direct and clear. C'est la vie! [emoji16]



Well said.


----------



## msmofet (Mar 18, 2020)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> Just measured it. 1 tsp in the cap. The bleach will sanitize if diluted with a gallon of water, it has been so for many years in the restaurant industry. I think the tsp to a quart is overkill and if you use it on counters you are going to smell and taste bleach.
> 
> We always cleaned and allowed to air dry. No rinsing required.


 Thank you. You can smell the 1/4 tsp. bleach in the quart of water. So I think that will be good.


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 18, 2020)

taxlady said:


> Well said.


Thank you.


----------



## taxlady (Mar 18, 2020)

I'm going to guess that there is a "window" of how much bleach should be in the water for sanitizing. Both 1 tsp / quart and 1 tsp / gallon probably fall within that window.


----------



## Kaneohegirlinaz (Mar 21, 2020)

https://www.gohawaii.com/special-alerts-information


Never would I have EVER dreamt that The State of Hawaii 
would ask that visitors to NOT come to our beautiful Islands, 
EVER!

THIS saddens more than I could say


----------



## roadfix (Mar 21, 2020)

Kaneohegirlinaz said:


> Never would I have EVER dreamt that The State of Hawaii
> would ask that visitors to NOT come to our beautiful Islands,
> EVER!
> THIS saddens more than I could say





I think it’s a wise, responsible decision.


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 21, 2020)

roadfix said:


> I think it’s a wise, responsible decision.


Agreed. It doesn't indicate a lack of hospitality, but a realistic assessment of how best to keep people safe and healthy.


----------



## taxlady (Mar 21, 2020)

roadfix said:


> I think it’s a wise, responsible decision.





GotGarlic said:


> Agreed. It doesn't indicate a lack of hospitality, but a realistic assessment of how best to keep people safe and healthy.



I concur.

Edit: It also occurs to me that people would have to get there. Unless someone has a private plane or private yacht, just getting there would be risky in a commercial plane or on a cruise ship.


----------



## luckytrim (Mar 22, 2020)

This is the best explanation of the virus I've seen.........


AN EXPLANATION from a microbiologist at the CDC:
 Feeling confused as to why Coronavirus is a bigger deal than seasonsl  flu? Here it is in a nutshell. I hope this helps. Feel free to share  this to others who don’t understand... 
 It has to do with RNA sequencing.... i.e. genetics.
  Seasonal flu is an “all human virus”. The DNA/RNA chains that make up  the virus are recognized by the human immune system. This means that  your body has some immunity to it before it comes around each year...  you get immunity two ways...through exposure to a virus, or by getting a  flu shot. 
 Novel viruses, come from animals.... the WHO tracks  novel viruses in animals, (sometimes for years watching for mutations).  Usually these viruses only transfer from animal to animal (pigs in the  case of H1N1) (birds in the case of the Spanish flu). But once, one of  these animal viruses mutates, and starts to transfer from animals to  humans... then it’s a problem, Why? Because we have no natural or  acquired immunity.. the RNA sequencing of the genes inside the virus  isn’t human, and the human immune system doesn’t recognize it so, we  can’t fight it off. 
 Now.... sometimes, the mutation only allows  transfer from animal to human, for years it’s only transmission is from  an infected animal to a human before it finally mutates so that it can  now transfer human to human... once that happens..we have a new  contagion phase. And depending on the fashion of this new mutation,  thats what decides how contagious, or how deadly it’s gonna be..
  H1N1 was deadly....but it did not mutate in a way that was as deadly as  the Spanish flu. It’s RNA was slower to mutate and it attacked its host  differently, too. 
 Fast forward. 
 Now, here comes this  Coronavirus... it existed in animals only, for nobody knows how  long...but one day, at an animal market, in Wuhan China, in December  2019, it mutated and made the jump from animal to people. At first, only  animals could give it to a person... But here is the scary part.... in  just TWO WEEKS it mutated again and gained the ability to jump from  human to human. Scientists call this quick ability, “slippery”
  This Coronavirus, not being in any form a “human” virus (whereas we  would all have some natural or acquired immunity). Took off like a  rocket. And this was because, humans have no known immunity...doctors  have no known medicines for it.
 And it just so happens that this  particular mutated animal virus, changed itself in such a way the way  that it causes great damage to human lungs..
 That’s why  Coronavirus is different from seasonal flu, or H1N1 or any other type of  influenza.... this one is slippery AF. And it’s a lung eater...And,  it’s already mutated AGAIN, so that we now have two strains to deal  with, strain s, and strain L....which makes it twice as hard to develop a  vaccine.
 We really have no tools in our shed, with this. History  has shown that fast and immediate closings of public places has helped  in the past pandemics. Philadelphia and Baltimore were reluctant to  close events in 1918 and they were the hardest hit in the US during the  Spanish Flu. 
 Factoid: Henry VIII stayed in his room and allowed  no one near him, till the Black Plague passed...(honestly...I understand  him so much better now). Just like us, he had no tools in his shed,  except social isolation...
 And let me end by saying....right now  it’s hitting older folks harder... but this genome is so slippery...if  it mutates again (and it will). Who is to say, what it will do next. 
#flattenthecurve  Stay home folks or simply away from others who may be carrying it if  you can be outdoors somewhere... and share this to those that just are  not catching on. 
 .
#animalscience #humanhealth #planetearth #wewillsurvive


----------



## medtran49 (Mar 22, 2020)

A member of a mostly international forum I go to has reported that Thailand has basically closed its borders.  You have to post a million dollar bond to be used for healthcare/etc, be symptom free, and either be a resident or have some urgent need to be in the country.


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 22, 2020)

luckytrim said:


> This is the best explanation of the virus I've seen.........
> 
> 
> AN EXPLANATION from a microbiologist at the CDC:
> ...


I've come across this in three different places over the past week, attributed to an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins, a nurse and the biologist colleague of the wife of a friend of a friend on Fb. I doubt it came from anyone at the CDC. For now, I'd chalk this up to an urban legend, until we know more from reliable, known sources.


----------



## luckytrim (Mar 22, 2020)

Whatever the source...
This is the best explanation of the virus I've seen.........


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 22, 2020)

luckytrim said:


> Whatever the source...
> This is the best explanation of the virus I've seen.........


Assuming it's all true. Things like this tend to end up changing along the way.


----------



## luckytrim (Mar 22, 2020)

Well, you've seen it in three different places; Other than the source references, do you see any changes in the body of the message ?
If so, let us know...


----------



## roadfix (Mar 22, 2020)

medtran49 said:


> A member of a mostly international forum I go to has reported that Thailand has basically closed its borders.  You have to post a million dollar bond to be used for healthcare/etc, be symptom free, and either be a resident or have some urgent need to be in the country.




I was just texting my sister-in-law and her husband who’re both vacationing in El Salvador.   They’re unable to return to the US due to the borders and airport closures.
The police are arresting drivers that shouldn’t be out.   They’re allowing only one family member per household for groceries, medicines, etc...


----------



## taxlady (Mar 22, 2020)

That explanation may be more or less accurate. But, there are parts of it that seem a bit iffy - like it's made to sound "sciencey". That's just my impression. I could be wrong.


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 22, 2020)

luckytrim said:


> Well, you've seen it in three different places; Other than the source references, do you see any changes in the body of the message ?
> If so, let us know...


Sorry, I didn't keep track of all the places I saw it. In a search, I did find this, which is one of the ones I had seen (I was wrong, it was attributed to an immunologist, not an epidemiologist; see how easy that happens? ) 

The author of the tweet thread advises treating it as a theory rather than a fact, until we know for sure. 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1240433470750498816.html

I have a friend who is an epidemiologist for the public health service in my city - educated at Emory University, worked at the CDC for a while. I sent this to her Friday, but she had a baby yesterday, so she's a little busy right now. If/when I hear from her, I'll let everyone know.


----------



## medtran49 (Mar 22, 2020)

It actually sounds right from what I've learned over years working in the medical industry in various positions, keeping exotic animals (rainforest boas for the most part) and quarantining/disinfecting/etc to prevent zoonotic infections, and the conversation I had with my doctor recently, who had just returned from a medical conference in Grenada where an epidemiologist from the CDC gave a nice long lecture.  He told me the CDC expects at minimum 50% of Americans are expected to have or have had COVID-19 by summer, even with everything being done, that monoclonal antibodies are expected to have formed by September or October, and that a vaccine is not expected to be available until early 2021.

Just FYI, Grenada has no cases yet.  I asked before we got closer than 3 feet.  He also had time to chat because over half of his appointments had cancelled.


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 22, 2020)

taxlady said:


> That explanation may be more or less accurate. But, there are parts of it that seem a bit iffy - like it's made to sound "sciencey". That's just my impression. I could be wrong.



I was thinking it had been said in more layman's term so the average citizen could understand it.  Something I do so my audience will understand.


----------



## Kaneohegirlinaz (Mar 22, 2020)

Kaneohegirlinaz said:


> https://www.gohawaii.com/special-alerts-information
> 
> 
> Never would I have EVER dreamt that The State of Hawaii
> ...




From Governor David Ige's Office: 

_MARCH 21, 2020: Today I issued a second supplemental emergency proclamation (https://bit.ly/39azZ8O) ordering all individuals, both residents and visitors, arriving or returning to the State of Hawaiʻi to a mandatory 14-day self-quarantine. The mandate -- the first such action in the nation -- applies to all arrivals at state airports from the continental U.S. and international destinations and extends to other private and commercial aircrafts.
With the majority of Hawaiʻi’s COVID-19 cases linked to travel, it is critical that we further mitigate the spread of the virus by both residents and visitors who are coming from out-of-state. This plan was developed in collaboration with our county mayors and Hawaiʻi’s business, community and visitor industry leaders.
All visitors and residents arriving through Hawaiʻi’s airports will be required to complete a Hawaiʻi Department of Agriculture form that will be distributed onboard their flight. They will retain the form when disembarking the aircraft. Upon arrival, they will go through a checkpoint and present the completed form with a valid identification. Checkpoint staff will validate the form and issue documentation that certifies they cleared the checkpoint. The form also includes information on the mandatory requirements for the 14-day quarantine along with penalties.  
Failure to follow this order is a misdemeanor and punishable by a maximum fine of $5,000, or imprisonment of not more than one year, or both.  Enforcement will be handled by each of Hawaiʻi’s four counties.   
The mandate will go into effect at 12:01 a.m. on Thursday, March 26, 2020.   
These actions are extreme, but they will help flatten the curve and lay the groundwork for a quicker recovery. We need everyone to comply with these quarantine orders to help protect Hawaiʻi’s residents. 
Read the full news release at: https://bit.ly/2xcvtJE
VIDEO NEWS CONFERENCE: https://bit.ly/2Unw82O _


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 22, 2020)

medtran49 said:


> It actually sounds right from what I've learned over years working in the medical industry in various positions, keeping exotic animals (rainforest boas for the most part) and quarantining/disinfecting/etc to prevent zoonotic infections, and the conversation I had with my doctor recently, who had just returned from a medical conference in Grenada where an epidemiologist from the CDC gave a nice long lecture.  He told me the CDC expects at minimum 50% of Americans are expected to have or have had COVID-19 by summer, even with everything being done, that monoclonal antibodies are expected to have formed by September or October, and that a vaccine is not expected to be available until early 2021.
> 
> Just FYI, Grenada has no cases yet.  I asked before we got closer than 3 feet.  He also had time to chat because over half of his appointments had cancelled.





PrincessFiona60 said:


> I was thinking it had been said in more layman's term so the average citizen could understand it.  Something I do so my audience will understand.


It sounds right to me, too from what I've read. I just wanted to caution people about believing stuff floating around the internet without solid attribution.

I saw my GI doctor Wednesday and he said the same thing - they're expecting 50 percent of us to get it. He also warned me not to go anywhere, since I'm immunocompromised. That was the first and only time I've been away from the house since March 3.


----------



## msmofet (Mar 22, 2020)

The supermarket where my hub and DD's work just announced starting today all hourly workers will be getting a $2.00 an hour pay hike till May 2. I think that is a great way to reward the workers for being there in this trying time.


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 22, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> It sounds right to me, too from what I've read. I just wanted to caution people about believing stuff floating around the internet without solid attribution.
> 
> *I saw my GI doctor Wednesday and he said the same thing - they're expecting 50 percent of us to get it. He also warned me not to go anywhere, since I'm immunocompromised. That was the first and only time I've been away from the house since March 3.*



I still have healing to do, having your chest opened up is a long haul. I don't want to get COVID-19, the coughing would hurt like hell, bad enough when I sneeze. Sneezing takes me by surprise and I don't have time to brace myself fot it.

Anyway, stay home as much as possible GG, I don't want you getting sick!


----------



## Roll_Bones (Mar 23, 2020)

My doctor told me twice when I was there a couple days ago to stay home as well.
But I did need some supplies.
I have been a bit fortunate not to have needed any of the hoarded stuff like TP, but I am having a very hard time finding baking supplies.  
Especially yeast.  Its not even available online. I almost bough a small jar awhile back. I wish I had picked it up then.
 I did see some from foreign countries but afraid to give them my credit card info.  If they took PayPal I would.

Anyone else having this problem?


----------



## medtran49 (Mar 23, 2020)

Fortunately, I bought jar of yeast a week or 2 before the panic started.  So we have some for a while.


----------



## Cooking Goddess (Mar 23, 2020)

Roll_Bones said:


> ...but I am having a very hard time finding baking supplies...Anyone else having this problem?



When I went shopping last Wednesday I figured I'd pick up an extra bag of King Arthur AP flour. None on the shelves. No KA, no Bob's Red Mill, only three bags of house brand. I don't know if everyone is going to be baking, or if moms were getting ready to have their kids make homemade play dough. After all, salt was down to about a dozen boxes.

I didn't check yeast since I just bought a 1# bag last time we were in OH. I can get it cheaper ay the Amish bulk store.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 23, 2020)

Last time I looked, not a single carton of whipping cream for my coffee. I made do with the Natural Bliss, Sweet Cream  but it was too sweet. Went back in today and they are fully stocked, except for toilet paper.

I dread my Walmart trip tomorrow...


----------



## taxlady (Mar 23, 2020)

I get two deliveries of groceries tomorrow. One from each of two stores. I had to place one order at 3 in the morning last Saturday. Their server gets overloaded during regular times and it was a few days out for the next available delivery slot. The other place, I have pretty much finished my order. It is usually delivered on Tuesdays between noon and 17h00. Tomorrow, it will be sometime between 10 in the morning and 10 in the evening. Both stores are getting a whackload of new delivery customers.


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 24, 2020)

Roll_Bones said:


> My doctor told me twice when I was there a couple days ago to stay home as well.
> But I did need some supplies.
> I have been a bit fortunate not to have needed any of the hoarded stuff like TP, but I am having a very hard time finding baking supplies.
> Especially yeast.  Its not even available online. I almost bough a small jar awhile back. I wish I had picked it up then.
> ...


Last week, DH couldn't find flour; Sunday, he said the shelves were full in most areas of Kroger and brought home a few bags. So check again. I've read there are no production problems, so it's a problem of distribution and over-buying in the beginning.


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## Just Cooking (Mar 24, 2020)

Made a 6am senior shopping time @ Walmart this morning..
Found most everything we wanted.. No paper products but, we are fine on those..

I did hope to find disposable gloves but, none available.. Did pick up some household gloves in a neutral color.. I want to wear gloves when we leave the apartment.. If household gloves look silly, so be it.. Not the first time I've looked silly in my lifetime..  

We should be set for another two weeks now..  

Ross


----------



## Recipes Make Magic (Mar 24, 2020)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> Last time I looked, not a single carton of whipping cream for my coffee. I made do with the Natural Bliss, Sweet Cream but it was too sweet. Went back in today and they are fully stocked, except for toilet paper.
> 
> I dread my Walmart trip tomorrow...


 
Not having any whipping cream for my morning coffee(s) is one of the most disappointing starts to my day  !


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 24, 2020)

Just Cooking said:


> Made a 6am senior shopping time @ Walmart this morning..
> Found most everything we wanted.. No paper products but, we are fine on those..
> 
> *I did hope to find disposable gloves but, none available..* Did pick up some household gloves in a neutral color.. I want to wear gloves when we leave the apartment.. If household gloves look silly, so be it.. Not the first time I've looked silly in my lifetime..
> ...



The medical exam gloves are being reserved for medical facilities at this time. You won't be finding them in the stores soon.   We (the facility) order double what we need and only receive 25% of our order. Same with goggles, gowns, etc. we are not getting our full orders. Makes it hard to be safe and use precautions when we don't have the equipment needed.



Recipes Make Magic said:


> Not having any whipping cream for my morning coffee(s) is one of the most disappointing starts to my day  !



I keep Swiss Miss on hand, if I run out of cream I can enjoy a mocha until I get more.


----------



## Just Cooking (Mar 25, 2020)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> e.*The medical exam gloves are being reserved for medical facilities at this time. *You won't be finding them in the stores soon.   We (the facility) order double what we need and only receive 25% of our order. Same with goggles, gowns, etc. we are not getting our full orders. Makes it hard to be safe and use precautions when we don't have the equipment needed.



I understand the need to save for those who serve the ill..

When we stopped @ CVS for meds, a clerk was putting a case of exam gloves on a shelf.. I was able to purchase 1 box.. 
She said that they, possible, would not be having any more until things changed..

Ross


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 25, 2020)

Just Cooking said:


> I understand the need to save for those who serve the ill..
> 
> When we stopped @ CVS for meds, a clerk was putting a case of exam gloves on a shelf.. I was able to purchase 1 box..
> She said that they, possible, would not be having any more until things changed..
> ...



I still have half a box from when taking care of Shrek, it was 3/4 of a box before my surgery. I've been using a glove while caring for my incision or putting icy hot on my foot. I will need to find a replacement...


----------



## medtran49 (Mar 25, 2020)

When we were having our chat, my doc told me even the cheap hair dye type gloves would be better than nothing.


----------



## skilletlicker (Mar 25, 2020)

Thanks, ********. I've been planning to make a cloth mask to cover the masks I've had for the occasional household use for years. One of the two has never been used though. Because I don't have a sewing machine or skills beyond replacing a button, my homemade mask won't be nearly as well made as the video shows but still, there are helpful suggestions in it.
My masks bought at a drug or hardware store years ago.


----------



## taxlady (Mar 25, 2020)

One of the places I regularly get grocery deliveries from had a melt down yesterday. They got so many new customers that they couldn't handle the volume of deliveries. There were even some issues with their website. They have had to stop taking on new customers. They are trying to hire new warehouse workers. They have promised that I will get my groceries today, the ones that were supposed to arrive yesterday. I'm wishing them luck and patience.


----------



## taxlady (Mar 25, 2020)

Someone shared this on FB and I think it is uplifting and incredibly sweet. I may have read it a few times. I may have teared up just a little.


----------



## Roll_Bones (Mar 25, 2020)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> Last time I looked, not a single carton of whipping cream for my coffee. I made do with the Natural Bliss, Sweet Cream  but it was too sweet. Went back in today and they are fully stocked, except for toilet paper.
> 
> I dread my Walmart trip tomorrow...



Costco had plenty milk, Half and Half, and Cream.  I called first.  They are also baking fresh loaves each and every day.  We got two country french.  So crusty and great.
I dread any trip to Walmart!



GotGarlic said:


> Last week, DH couldn't find flour; Sunday, he said the shelves were full in most areas of Kroger and brought home a few bags. So check again. I've read there are no production problems, so it's a problem of distribution and over-buying in the beginning.



Yes. Hoarding is a giant problem. Fortunately we live in a very good area of the state and country to be frank. Little hoarding from what I have seen.
I need to call the store about the yeast. Specifically.

Oh....GG.  Tell me about that bucket of dough you have in the fridge. Sounds like a great idea for these times.  I have a few of those square restaurant pails with lids. 4 qt. 6 qt. 8 qt.


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 25, 2020)

Roll_Bones said:


> Oh....GG.  Tell me about that bucket of dough you have in the fridge. Sounds like a great idea for these times.  I have a few of those square restaurant pails with lids. 4 qt. 6 qt. 8 qt.


I use this no-knead bread recipe: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/2013...tes-a-day-is-launched-back-to-basics-updated/

It makes enough dough for four one-pound loaves and it keeps for up to two weeks in the fridge. I put it in an 8-quart restaurant bucket. The longer it ages, the more sourdough-like it tastes. I've made round boules, baguette shapes and rolls with it. Here's a batch of rolls I baked the other day. The dough is very wet, so it can be tricky to work with, but I just add flour till I get it shaped.


----------



## bbqcoder (Mar 26, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> I use this no-knead bread recipe: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/2013...tes-a-day-is-launched-back-to-basics-updated/


Thanks for this. Do you put yeast in your recipe? I’ve been sticking with sour dough starter for my breads but apparently it does not store well for this recipe.


----------



## msmofet (Mar 26, 2020)

A bit of a vent here. Both DD's work in online shopping at a supermarket. Customers whether in the store or on the phone (when they need to be called) are VERY abusive AND rude to them. Hub works in produce dept. in same supermarket chain but different location and getting treated the same. Customers just DON'T want to accept that there isn't a product and they don't know when the items will come in. They are getting screamed AND cursed at!

They don't deserve that treatment! They are still at work taking the real risk of DYING (they aren't allowed to wear masks because it may scare the customers) to get these people what they need. It's not their fault there are shortages. If the greedy pigs would stop hoarding there would be plenty for everyone!!


----------



## Just Cooking (Mar 26, 2020)

msmofet... I understand your rant..

I have never been able to understand why customers act like this..  

Ross


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 26, 2020)

bbqcoder said:


> Thanks for this. Do you put yeast in your recipe? I’ve been sticking with sour dough starter for my breads but apparently it does not store well for this recipe.


Yes, I use yeast.


----------



## taxlady (Mar 26, 2020)

(((Hugs))) msmofet. That kind of behaviour is unacceptable. It's also unkind. You are right. They don't deserve that.


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 26, 2020)

msmofet said:


> A bit of a vent here. Both DD's work in online shopping at a supermarket. Customers whether in the store or on the phone (when they need to be called) are VERY abusive AND rude to them. Hub works in produce dept. in same supermarket chain but different location and getting treated the same. Customers just DON'T want to accept that there isn't a product and they don't know when the items will come in. They are getting screamed AND cursed at!
> 
> They don't deserve that treatment! They are still at work taking the real risk of DYING (they aren't allowed to wear masks because it may scare the customers) to get these people what they need. It's not their fault there are shortages. If the greedy pigs would stop hoarding there would be plenty for everyone!!



Agreed, they do not deserve it.

Too bad I am not around, I delight in taking on folks who exhibit bad behavior towards customer service.


----------



## Roll_Bones (Mar 26, 2020)

bbqcoder said:


> Thanks for this. Do you put yeast in your recipe? I’ve been sticking with sour dough starter for my breads but apparently it does not store well for this recipe.



Today my friend told me his wife has sourdough starter.  I am to get some of it tomorrow.  I guess I'm gonna learn quickly.  I hope to keep it for years like I have read and have seen.
Is all starter the same?



GotGarlic said:


> I use this no-knead bread recipe: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/2013...tes-a-day-is-launched-back-to-basics-updated/
> 
> It makes enough dough for four one-pound loaves and it keeps for up to two weeks in the fridge. I put it in an 8-quart restaurant bucket. The longer it ages, the more sourdough-like it tastes. I've made round boules, baguette shapes and rolls with it. Here's a batch of rolls I baked the other day. The dough is very wet, so it can be tricky to work with, but I just add flour till I get it shaped.
> View attachment 39955



Looks great. I was looking more for a white type sourdough?  like I said above I am to get some sourdough starter tomorrow.  I have no idea what I'm getting.  I have checked it out online.
I need to get into those videos you post.  The guy that teaches how to bake.
Gracias GG.



PrincessFiona60 said:


> Agreed, they do not deserve it.
> Too bad I am not around, I delight in taking on folks who exhibit bad behavior towards customer service.



I never see customers being rude.  Maybe occasionally.  By far the most rude have been the employees in my observation.
I lost my temper once and had another customer call me out.  He's damn lucky my wife was there.


----------



## PiperH (Mar 26, 2020)

Crises such as these often bring out either the best or worst in people. So far I've seen mostly the best except for one young woman who grabbed the toilet paper, bread, and bag of potatoes *out of my cart and put it in hers. 
*
I didn't know what to think of that, but I found those at another store so we're fine.


----------



## roadfix (Mar 26, 2020)

So you test negative for COVID-19.   But what about tomorrow?   You can catch it and test positive a week later.
I drove by at least a mile long line of cars this morning for the drive thru testing.    I bet most of them have no business getting tested for the virus.   Only those who think they’ve been exposed or are experiencing symptoms should be in that line.   Maybe I’m wrong.


----------



## Just Cooking (Mar 27, 2020)

roadfix said:


> *So you test negative for COVID-19.   But what about tomorrow?   You can catch it and test positive a week later.*



I wonder about that also..

I have two acquaintances who "catch" everything they read about or see on TV.. I don't have first hand knowledge but, I'd not be surprised to find that they have been bugging their health care providers for Covid 19 testing.. 

Ross


----------



## bbqcoder (Mar 27, 2020)

Roll_Bones said:


> Is all starter the same?
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great. I was looking more for a white type sourdough?  like I said above I am to get some sourdough starter tomorrow.



I think all starters will change to what is in your area in terms of bacteria content. 

Are you looking for a white sourdough bread recipe?  Be sure to try some multi grain recipes as they are quite tasty.


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 27, 2020)

Roll_Bones said:


> Today my friend told me his wife has sourdough starter.  I am to get some of it tomorrow.  I guess I'm gonna learn quickly.  I hope to keep it for years like I have read and have seen.
> Is all starter the same?


From what I understand, sourdough starter will change character over time because of the yeasts in the air wherever its kept. 



Roll_Bones said:


> Looks great. I was looking more for a white type sourdough?  like I said above I am to get some sourdough starter tomorrow.  I have no idea what I'm getting.  I have checked it out online.
> I need to get into those videos you post.  The guy that teaches how to bake.
> Gracias GG.


Thanks. Here's the "Sourdough from Start to Finish" episode from Bake with Jack: https://youtu.be/vmb0wWKITBQ


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 27, 2020)

bbqcoder said:


> I think all starters will change to what is in your area in terms of bacteria content.
> 
> Are you looking for a white sourdough bread recipe?  Be sure to try some multi grain recipes as they are quite tasty.


Sourdough changes character because of the yeasts in the air where it's kept. The acids created by the yeast kill the bacteria - you don't want that growing in your starter. It's like with kimchi and sauerkraut - the acids keep the bacteria in check so it doesn't cause food poisoning.


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 27, 2020)

msmofet said:


> A bit of a vent here. Both DD's work in online shopping at a supermarket. Customers whether in the store or on the phone (when they need to be called) are VERY abusive AND rude to them. Hub works in produce dept. in same supermarket chain but different location and getting treated the same. Customers just DON'T want to accept that there isn't a product and they don't know when the items will come in. They are getting screamed AND cursed at!
> 
> They don't deserve that treatment! They are still at work taking the real risk of DYING (they aren't allowed to wear masks because it may scare the customers) to get these people what they need. It's not their fault there are shortages. If the greedy pigs would stop hoarding there would be plenty for everyone!!


I'm so sorry, msmofet. They definitely don't deserve to be treated like that.


----------



## Andy M. (Mar 27, 2020)

Interesting couple of days. 

Like many others, our supermarket chain has established special early hours for older customers. We decided to take advantage of that on Thursday morning. We got up early, 5:00AM, in hopes of getting there when there was still product on the shelves. Got out to the car to find that the battery was dead. Oh well, change of plans. Later that day I got the car taken care of. 

This morning we gave it another try, not as early in the day. The store was not crowded. The shelves were well-stocked except for cleaning supplies. Our plan is that we won't have to shop again for two weeks.

We had a conversation with the store manager. He's had to change the way he manages his staff. The store chain cannot get cleaning supplies in the quantities they want/need. They may get ten percent of an order and that has to go for all the stores.

He said the Board of Health calls every couple of days to check on their needs.


----------



## WhateverYouWant (Mar 27, 2020)

Did they at least have alcohol?


----------



## Andy M. (Mar 27, 2020)

ScottinPollock said:


> Andy M. said:
> 
> 
> > The shelves were well-stocked except for cleaning supplies.]
> ...


----------



## kleenex (Mar 27, 2020)

https://d3nuqriibqh3vw.cloudfront.n...48_small.mp4?QHAu2_3nikVT45ceioJSO10TDici7yGJ

I will share this


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 27, 2020)

Well, our maintenance department (they are related somehow) managed to expose the facility to COVID-19. They showed up for work and were all over the place by the time it was found out and they were sent home. First confirmed case in Goshen county is the older one's daughter and he's been to her house and watching his grandson.

This means, to me, I cannot go to my parents house. I cannot go anywhere but to work. I will not take the chance that I might expose anyone else. Now I get to take my temp every 4 hours and watch for any symptoms.  Boss lady is mad as a wet hen, the two idiots exposed all of us. Gee, is that my normal cough?


----------



## roadfix (Mar 28, 2020)

PF60. hope you don’t develop any symptoms.   I’m starting to get a bit paranoid about even going to the market.


----------



## msmofet (Mar 28, 2020)

6 confirmed cases as of yesterday in my small town (pop. 2,800). There was also a death one town over (pop. 11,000).


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 28, 2020)

Oh, PF, how awful to be exposed through someone else's carelessnes. I'm pretty mad, too [emoji35] I hope it doesn't get too bad among your patients. Hugs.


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 28, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> Oh, PF, how awful to be exposed through someone else's carelessnes. I'm pretty mad, too [emoji35] I hope it doesn't get too bad among your patients. Hugs.



Yeah, I worry about the patients. Hopefully we've all dodged a bullet. Home for the weekend and getting the rest I need, then to work Monday. Boss is keeping us posted. I kept to my office yesterday as much as possible.


----------



## Roll_Bones (Mar 28, 2020)

Andy M. said:


> Interesting couple of days.
> 
> Like many others, our supermarket chain has established special early hours for older customers. We decided to take advantage of that on Thursday morning. We got up early, 5:00AM, in hopes of getting there when there was still product on the shelves. Got out to the car to find that the battery was dead. Oh well, change of plans. Later that day I got the car taken care of.
> 
> ...



Costco has special hours for those over 60. I think its Tuesdays and Thursdays  between the hours of 8-9am.  I would call your local warehouse to verify.
Seems like the best choice as the local grocery is not stocked well at all.
I thought they had more until I was looking for more.


----------



## Andy M. (Mar 28, 2020)

Roll_Bones said:


> Costco has special hours for those over 60. I think its Tuesdays and Thursdays  between the hours of 8-9am.  I would call your local warehouse to verify.
> Seems like the best choice as the local grocery is not stocked well at all.
> I thought they had more until I was looking for more.



Our supermarket and nearest Costco are in NH. They have instructed stores to have senior hours every day. We haven't run into larger than normal croups whenever we've gone shopping. In fact, fewer people than usual.


----------



## Just Cooking (Mar 28, 2020)

Our Walmart's open @6am, Tuesday's for seniors.. This week was the first time so, Jeannie and I went to fill in needed products.. Not a lot of people shopping, which pleased us..  Will do so again next Tuesday as, we will be in need of paper products by then.. Hope they have them..

This time we will have gloves to wear.. Pleased with that..

Love shopping early because we then like to stop someplace for breakfast.. Can't do that now...  

Ross


----------



## taxlady (Mar 28, 2020)

What is the matter with people? Did they not understand that they were supposed to be isolating if they have been in contact with someone diagnosed with covid-19? Did they not believe it was important? Will they lose pay if they don't show up for work and can't afford that?

In any case PF, I'm sorry you have possibly been exposed. Sending positive vibes that you didn't catch anything.


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 28, 2020)

taxlady said:


> What is the matter with people? Did they not understand that they were supposed to be isolating if they have been in contact with someone diagnosed with covid-19? Did they not believe it was important? *Will they lose pay if they don't show up for work and can't afford that?*
> 
> In any case PF, I'm sorry you have possibly been exposed. Sending positive vibes that you didn't catch anything.



The company has special funds set aside for those who are quarantined due to COVID-19, 14 days pay, then our sick pay kicks in after the 14 days if we are indeed confirmed. Very generous.

The older man who was exposed by his daughter is also going through chemo and radiation, he should have known better. This whole situation is beyond belief.

Third temp check since waking up...97.2, still feel fine. However, I have been on antibiotics for my surgical incision which is not healing well. So I have another route open for the virus...not happy.


----------



## taxlady (Mar 28, 2020)

I usually pick out my basket order starting Saturday morning and have to finish it up by Monday, before midnight, for a delivery on Tuesday. Last week I didn't get my order until Wednesday because the company was so overwhelmed by new customers and larger orders that they had a bit of a meltdown, with delivery software crashing and hundreds of customer service emails coming in. They have been working hard to deal with the situation and having to get used to their new, safer protocols for handing and delivering food, isn't making it any easier. I understand that. But, I'm not pleased that I may not get a basket this week. They will updating the website about who gets to activate a basket order this week, as they feel they have capacity. Unfortunately, that means that unless I find out that I can activate my basket, I won't know for sure until Monday evening. 

Also, the other place I regularly order from is overwhelmed. My order with them last week was also delayed by a day. I tried to place an order last night, but they don't have any delivery slots available through Wednesday. On Mondays, they will open up the next batch of slots. So, I will be going to their website late Sunday evening to try to get a delivery slot. I will also update my order. Yes, it's already all picked out and hopefully will stay in their system. I took a screenshot to make it easier for me, if it isn't still there. At least I will have an idea if I need to add stuff that I usually get with my basket. This is getting stressful.


----------



## WhateverYouWant (Mar 28, 2020)

It is really unfortunate that folks with access to grocery delivery feel the need to stock up... with an "I'll get mine and 'F' everybody else!".

What is more unfortunate is that this type of behavior has caused retailers that also have an online presence to move high demand items to "available in store only". How does that make sense in an era of worldwide quarantine?

Safeway and CVS know about everything I have purchased from them (via member cards). So does WalMart online and Amazon. Therefore they "could" instantly tell if I panic buy way over my standard consumption, and put a stop to it. Maybe there is no simple place in their systems to implement such an algorithm, but there should be.

Like always, those that wish to act responsibly are often the ones getting screwed.


----------



## Andy M. (Mar 28, 2020)

This quote has both amusing and frightening components


----------



## taxlady (Mar 28, 2020)

Andy M. said:


> This quote has both amusing and frightening components



Ain't that the truth! It is both and amusing and frightening.


----------



## Cooking Goddess (Mar 28, 2020)

*PF*, it completely sucks that someone else's ignorance or inconsideration has impacted your life and the lives of those you love, both family and at work. I say shoot the dummies.   I hope this amounts to nothing more than a short inconvenience. Worrisome, but just an inconvenience if you all come out on the other side of 14 days OK.

*msmofet*, I saw in the dinner thread for tonight that you mentioned your DD now having a fever. I hope it's nothing more than a flu bug. A very small, weak, flu bug.


----------



## taxlady (Mar 28, 2020)

Cooking Goddess said:


> *PF*, it completely sucks that someone else's ignorance or inconsideration has impacted your life and the lives of those you love, both family and at work. I say shoot the dummies.   I hope this amounts to nothing more than a short inconvenience. Worrisome, but just an inconvenience if you all come out on the other side of 14 days OK.
> 
> *msmofet*, I saw in the dinner thread for tonight that you mentioned your DD now having a fever. I hope it's nothing more than a flu bug. A very small, weak, flu bug.



I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 28, 2020)

Cooking Goddess said:


> *PF*, it completely sucks that someone else's ignorance or inconsideration has impacted your life and the lives of those you love, both family and at work. I say shoot the dummies.   I hope this amounts to nothing more than a short inconvenience. Worrisome, but just an inconvenience if you all come out on the other side of 14 days OK.
> 
> *msmofet*, I saw in the dinner thread for tonight that you mentioned your DD now having a fever. I hope it's nothing more than a flu bug. A very small, weak, flu bug.



So far so good, but it could take up to 5-11 days to manifest itself.

MsM, lots of hot fluids, vitamin C, everybody washing your hands!


----------



## Cheryl J (Mar 28, 2020)

3 confirmed cases in my rather isolated town of 30,000.  It's roughly a hundred miles from anywhere.  Ugh.


----------



## taxlady (Mar 29, 2020)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> So far so good, but it could take up to 5-11 days to manifest itself.
> 
> MsM, lots of hot fluids, vitamin C, everybody washing your hands!



And vitamin D for people in the northern hemisphere not getting enough sunlight. Lots of us are Vitamin D deficient and infection patterns seem to be worse in areas of Vitamin D deficiency.


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 29, 2020)

taxlady said:


> And vitamin D for people in the northern hemisphere not getting enough sunlight. Lots of us are Vitamin D deficient and infection patterns seem to be worse in areas of Vitamin D deficiency.



Yes, we need vitamin D3, I forget because I take it all the time.


----------



## Roll_Bones (Mar 29, 2020)

bbqcoder said:


> I think all starters will change to what is in your area in terms of bacteria content.
> Are you looking for a white sourdough bread recipe?  Be sure to try some multi grain recipes as they are quite tasty.



Yes and Yes. I plan to try both. Thanks



GotGarlic said:


> From what I understand, sourdough starter will change character over time because of the yeasts in the air wherever its kept.
> Thanks. Here's the "Sourdough from Start to Finish" episode from Bake with Jack: https://youtu.be/vmb0wWKITBQ



Thanks GG.  I finally was able to watch it. 



GotGarlic said:


> Sourdough changes character because of the yeasts in the air where it's kept. The acids created by the yeast kill the bacteria - you don't want that growing in your starter. It's like with kimchi and sauerkraut - the acids keep the bacteria in check so it doesn't cause food poisoning.



On Friday, my friend brought me the starter his wife made. Into the fridge it went. Her instructions.
However, I took one teaspoon of the starter, and put it my mason jar. Added two heaping tbls of flour and just enough water to mix it into a thick batter consistency.
I have removed some and fed it each day. Friday and Saturday on the counter in my warm kitchen.
It has now wanted to come out of the quart mason jar its so active.  I think it could be used now.  But I'm gonna feed it today and then tomorrow. And into the fridge it will go.
I do not have any KA Flour and want to wait to make my first loaf or rolls.
I think I am now getting this. Its really cool, except for all the feeding!



Andy M. said:


> Our supermarket and nearest Costco are in NH. They have instructed stores to have senior hours every day. We haven't run into larger than normal croups whenever we've gone shopping. In fact, fewer people than usual.



Same here. Ghost town and still no flour, bread and other things like sour cream. Now I have my own bread.  But I need some flour.
NO wipes at the entrance either!
They must be hoarding early in the day. I still feel like I'm a rock star and don't get out until afternoon...LOL


----------



## Just Cooking (Mar 29, 2020)

Made a 6am run to a store we don't normally shop at.. My daughter told me that they had things we have been looking for..

Sure enough they were stocked with all we have been concerned with.. 

We were pleased and thanked each clerk we came into contact with.. They are all putting themselves out for us..

There were very few shoppers, each looking warily at one another..  I love 6am shopping..  

Ross


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 29, 2020)

Roll_Bones said:


> Yes and Yes. I plan to try both. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


People were making sourdough bread long before King Arthur Flour existed ; I've been using Kroger brand flour for most of my bread-making and it works fine. I occasionally buy KA bread flour, but that's for specialty breads.

Btw, look online for recipes you can make with the discard - I've seen people making crackers and other types of flatbreads with it.


----------



## taxlady (Mar 29, 2020)

Phew, the place I get the basket order updated their instructions, so now I have "activated" my delivery time slot for Tuesday. I have picked out most of the stuff I want. I set an alarm on my phone to check the supermarket website at 23:55.


----------



## kleenex (Mar 29, 2020)

https://www.billboard.com/articles/...iffie-best-songs-home-third-rock-from-the-sun

oooohhhh pooo....


----------



## Roll_Bones (Mar 29, 2020)

GotGarlic said:


> People were making sourdough bread long before King Arthur Flour existed ; I've been using Kroger brand flour for most of my bread-making and it works fine. I occasionally buy KA bread flour, but that's for specialty breads.
> 
> Btw, look online for recipes you can make with the discard - I've seen people making crackers and other types of flatbreads with it.



Yea, I get it. But Since I'm a newbie, I wanted to start with proven ingredients. But I guess you proved it for me! Thanks.

But I wanted to make some really good bread. I have two crusty loaves in the freezer and some sliced bread frozen as well. So, I'm in no hurry.
I was going to buy bread flour, AP flour and some rye flour for another starter.

I was thinking about sharing the starter with others like me that cannot find yeast and sometimes bread.  Gifts if you will. Small containers my wife has, and put a bow on it with instructions?

The stuff I'm discarding is fine for bread.  It almost grew out of the jar yesterday and today.  Bubbly too. I guess its ready since I started with ready made starter. It might should go into the fridge.

Jack used the jar with scrapings left over and had ready starter in 24 hours.  I think this is what happened to me.
I did not start from scratch. One tsp of ready starter, fed twice.

I appreciate your help.


----------



## bbqcoder (Mar 29, 2020)

Andy M. said:


> Like many others, our supermarket chain has established special early hours for older customers.



My parents live in FL and are members of a neighborhood group on Facebook.  I'm also a member of the same group to help out my parents.  There were a few good posts recently.

One was about senior hours and how they're useless in FL since everyone is a senior.  The person said that maybe they should make it for people over 80, not 65.

There were lots of complaints about the stores not having anything because of the hoarding mentality.  One person suggested that before going into the local Walmart, he should throw a roll of TP in the parking lot to watch people flock to it like seagulls go for french fries.

Got a good laugh from these two comments.  Good to see that people still have a sense of humor.


----------



## cjmmytunes (Mar 30, 2020)

kleenex said:


> https://www.billboard.com/articles/...iffie-best-songs-home-third-rock-from-the-sun
> 
> oooohhhh pooo....




I saw that too.  RIP Mr. Pickup Man.


----------



## TATTRAT (Mar 30, 2020)

VA now on lock down.


----------



## GotGarlic (Mar 30, 2020)

TATTRAT said:


> VA now on lock down.


Yup, saw the governor on TV earlier. I hope people take it more seriously than many have been so far.


----------



## kleenex (Mar 30, 2020)

cjmmytunes said:


> I saw that too.  RIP Mr. Pickup Man.



Just prop me up besides the jukebox when I die


----------



## Katie H (Mar 30, 2020)

I find it interesting that during our current virus situation that being home is such a safe and comfortable place.

I went out last Tuesday to purchase groceries and arrived home soon afterwards.  Will do it again tomorrow.

There was a sense of calm and safety as I rolled into our driveway and parked the car.

We have taken precautions to keep ourselves safe and will continue to do so.

As has been said, "There's no place iike home."


----------



## Just Cooking (Mar 31, 2020)

+1...  

We have ventured out for groceries and meds only in the last 3 weeks (twice only).. Our grocery store opens @ 6am and pharmacy @ 8am.. Social distancing is doable that early here..

Would like to be able to be with family but, we stay separate on purpose.. Can't wait until its safe for hugs again..

Ross


----------



## Cooking Goddess (Apr 1, 2020)

At 8:00 PM tonight (Wednesday), it will be two full weeks since I last left house or porch. I shopped two weeks ago, then figured it wouldn't hurt to stay put for the full 14 day incubation period of the virus. I plan on going out Friday to pick up fresh produce and - if I can find it - more flour. And maybe a package of TP. We're close to needing to break open the package that is always on deck in the basement.



Cheryl J said:


> 3 confirmed cases in my rather isolated town of 30,000.  It's roughly a hundred miles from anywhere.  Ugh.


While I don't have to travel 100 miles to get somewhere, our small town of 11,000 had four confirmed cases and once rumored death earlier this week.


----------



## skilletlicker (Apr 1, 2020)

I walked to Kroger early this morning, .8 mi one way. The plan was to carry the groceries home. Bad plan. Went armed with a small bottle of homemade hand sanitizer; rubbing alcohol and hydrogen peroxide, a small bottle of surface sanitizer; tap water and bleach, and a plastic bag with a 6 x 6" paper towels. Considered wearing a mask, but decided against it so as not to encourage anyone else to seek out medical masks that are desperately needed by others at higher at risk.

I've mentioned here elsewhere that I have two N-95 masks that I've owned and used at home very occasionally for several years. I saw a few people at the store with medical masks but more people with what looked like homemade cloth masks or plain bandanas. Most of the faces were bare.

So I shopped the whole store, hitting produce last because that's what takes up most of the room in my cart. Several times after handling refrigerator freezer doors I paused to sanitize my hands, all the while being very conscious of not touching my face. The first thing I do entering the produce department is to grab one of those thin plastic produce bags and touch thumb and forefinger to tongue to help get it open.

If I'd been wearing a mask, at least I wouldn't be able to mindlessly stick fingers in my mouth! Before I leave the apartment again I'm going to make one of those YouTube, DIY, no sewing required, homemade, old tee shirt masks. I'll wear it over an N-95.

By the time I got to the check-out line, I had over 100 lbs. of groceries including half a ham and a 14 lb. turkey, way too much to carry home so had to call Lyft. Took me two hours to puzzle it all into the little apartment-sized icebox so the doors would stay closed.


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Apr 1, 2020)

skilletlicker said:


> I walked to Kroger early this morning, .8 mi one way. The plan was to carry the groceries home. Bad plan. Went armed with a small bottle of homemade hand sanitizer; rubbing alcohol and hydrogen peroxide, a small bottle of surface sanitizer; tap water and bleach, and a plastic bag with a 6 x 6" paper towels. Considered wearing a mask, but decided against it so as not to encourage anyone else to seek out medical masks that are desperately needed by others at higher at risk.
> 
> I've mentioned here elsewhere that I have two N-95 masks that I've owned and used at home very occasionally for several years. I saw a few people at the store with medical masks but more people with what looked like homemade cloth masks or plain bandanas. Most of the faces were bare.
> 
> ...



Welcome to my world!  I did the same thing going through the papers for our workers to have safe passage when things get locked down tighter...


----------



## WhateverYouWant (Apr 1, 2020)

skilletlicker said:


> The first thing I do entering the produce department is to grab one of those thin plastic produce bags and touch thumb and forefinger to tongue to help get it open.



Eeeewe. I have never used my saliva to help open one of those bags. There is plenty of produce that has enough surface moisture to help. I touch the top of the bags to wet produce to help open them... you need to rethink that behavior (even if we get past this pandemic).


----------



## kleenex (Apr 1, 2020)

Stacy's Mom.....


https://www.billboard.com/articles/...hlesinger-dead-fountains-of-wayne-coronavirus


----------



## bbqcoder (Apr 2, 2020)

kleenex said:


> Stacy's Mom.....
> 
> 
> https://www.billboard.com/articles/...hlesinger-dead-fountains-of-wayne-coronavirus



This is one of my favorite videos to play when I’m at my friend’s house for pool.


----------



## msmofet (Apr 3, 2020)

The supermarkets my dd's and hub work at have now closed off the olive bar/salad bar/hot food/Sushi bar's. The deli cold cuts are cut at night and placed in the Grab-N-Go section.

They have installed plastic shields to protect the cashiers and are also closing stores at 8pm.


----------



## taxlady (Apr 3, 2020)

I got my basket order on the day promised, last Tuesday. I was supposed to have grocery store delivery yesterday between 10h00 and noon, but nothing yet. I understand that they are overwhelmed and running behind. My previous order was a day late. But, I find it a bit stressful not knowing when it will arrive. I wish they would send out an email about that or at least put a note on the website that they are running some number of days behind.


----------



## skilletlicker (Apr 3, 2020)

For some reason, I just can't get the hang of these grocery deliveries.

Thought I found a set up I like with Misfit Markets but it didn't work out mostly because of the package delivery co. For years "leave at the door" has meant leave at the door to my apartment. But the only company they use to my neck of the woods, or more likely one driver, decided "leave at the door" means leaving a box somewhere outside in a complex of ten-story apartment buildings.

Was waiting to make sure Misfit was going to refund the order before mentioning it here. They did and I regret the need to cancel my subscription.


----------



## medtran49 (Apr 10, 2020)

Hopefully, I just scored 4 quart bottles of 99% isopropyl alcohol at a decent price that is actually in stock from a local lab so I can make hand sanitizer for us. I'll find out Monday for sure as they closed early today for Good Friday. More than I wanted, but that was minimum amount available right now.

Still have some on order from another place, but they keep putting me off on shipping date. That order will get cancelled if and when I get my hands on the local stuff.


----------



## taxlady (Apr 10, 2020)

medtran49 said:


> Hopefully, I just scored 4 quart bottles of 99% isopropyl alcohol at a decent price that is actually in stock from a local lab so I can make hand sanitizer for us. I'll find out Monday for sure as they closed early today for Good Friday. More than I wanted, but that was minimum amount available right now.
> 
> Still have some on order from another place, but they keep putting me off on shipping date. That order will get cancelled if and when I get my hands on the local stuff.



Even if it is a lot, it's useful stuff. It gets ink out of clothes and off stuff. It is useful for cleaning electronic stuff. i spray it on my eye glasses to clean them. Of course, it's also good for disinfecting. I always like to have a bunch at home.


----------



## skilletlicker (Apr 10, 2020)

medtran49 said:


> Hopefully, I just scored 4 quart bottles of 99% isopropyl alcohol at a decent price that is actually in stock from a local lab so I can make hand sanitizer for us. I'll find out Monday for sure as they closed early today for Good Friday. More than I wanted, but that was minimum amount available right now.
> 
> Still have some on order from another place, but they keep putting me off on shipping date. That order will get cancelled if and when I get my hands on the local stuff.



I have maybe 14 oz. left in a 16 oz bottle of 70% isopropyl alcohol that I bought many months ago from Kroger. It will last me several more weeks at least, but I wish I had a bottle in reserve. Kroger has been out of stock since the beginning of the current pandemic awareness. If any DC members or visitors know of a reliable source, I for one would appreciate details and/or links about it.

Regarding the efficacy of 70% vs. 99% solutions, I have neither knowledge nor opinion. This page, owned by a company that sells both when they're "in stock", makes claims that sound reasonable but I'm not qualified to evaluate.


----------



## medtran49 (Apr 11, 2020)

You have to use the 99% to make gel sanitizer with pure aloe vera because the alcohol content has to be at least 60% to be effective.


----------



## kleenex (Apr 12, 2020)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huTUOek4LgU&feature=emb_logo


----------



## Recipes Make Magic (Apr 16, 2020)

Firstly, I'd like to apologize for inadvertently initiating a light discussion about grocery shopping during the COVID pandemic, this in the thread for "Dinner thread for Wed. 15th" - that thread wasn't the place for that commentary, but I'd like to add a bit to it here:


For those of you who have read my comments in that thread, I mentioned that upon my DW returning home from grocery shopping, together we regularly quickly disinfect all of our grocery "packaging" - (i.e. the container boxes, the cans, the bread or meat wrappers, etc. - this done simply with just dish soap in hot water) in the event, however minimal, that an asymptomatic other shopper just before my wife, had touched &/or coughed droplets onto another cereal box, food container, bread wrapper, whatever- left on a store shelf - 
this being done because some medical experts here in Canada have said the virus droplets may survive up to several days on some surfaces - cardboard for one, being an example.


I also went on to say that as for 'groceries' per se - whether it be any pieces of fruit or vegetables - we have always washed/rinsed any such groceries before consumption or putting away temporarily, and continue to do so during this pandemic.


You may consider this to be somewhat paranoid, but I even wash my hands after handling & having read the morning newspaper which I fetched from the stoop - in the unlikely event the delivery person who placed the paper on the porch may feel well but be asymptomatic with the virus, and be contagious.


Am interested in any comments about how you other folks feel about these or other measures being taken to protect yourselves to lessen the risk of infection ?


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## taxlady (Apr 16, 2020)

RMR, we aren't even going out for shopping. We get everything delivered. We also decontaminate the outsides of things that come into the house or let it 3-day-decontaminate in a designated area, when that is convenient. We wash hands after touching the condo association's recycling bins or touching our mailbox (in a super box). We leave the front door open on these mini-excursions to the curb. That way we don't have to foof with keys and door handles. We shut the front door with a hip or shoulder and then wash our hands. We make sure to turn on the water using elbows, rather than possibly contaminated hands, so that we won't recontaminate clean hands when turning off the water.


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## Recipes Make Magic (Apr 16, 2020)

taxlady said:


> RMR, we aren't even going out for shopping. We get everything delivered. We also decontaminate the outsides of things that come into the house or let it 3-day-decontaminate in a designated area, when that is convenient. We wash hands after touching the condo association's recycling bins or touching our mailbox (in a super box). We leave the front door open on these mini-excursions to the curb. That way we don't have to foof with keys and door handles. We shut the front door with a hip or shoulder and then wash our hands. We make sure to turn on the water using elbows, rather than possibly contaminated hands, so that we won't recontaminate clean hands when turning off the water.


 
We do all of those things as well, except for grocery deliveries which, in our area these days, can easily/regularly take up to 2 weeks to be delivered following the ordering - you have to join a long waiting queue, as there are now so many people ordering grocery deliveries.

We only grocery shop once every 3 weeks now & religiously perform our strict distancing, as helpfully arranged by the stores with their formal instructions to shoppers, as well as their employees who more or less force that essential distancing through their practices. 
Also, my spouse and I distance ourselves from each other daily as much as is practicable,  we sleep in different bedrooms, and each use our own separate ensuite bathrooms.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Apr 16, 2020)

Aw heck, if you are in the same house you are already sharing.  no need for social distancing in the house.  Now when I visit my parents, we are the perfect 6 feet away from each other, but mostly to keep me at a distance. I miss giving hugs out to my residents and sharing us time with friends at work. I miss chatting with my neighbors and cashiers in the store.  Since we (The facility) are essential workers, we at least have been able to leave the house on a regular basis, but this puts our loved ones at risk.

What's bad, is this is taking a toll on our nerves and causes lots of stress, my co-workers and I are getting cabin fever of a different sort.


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## Recipes Make Magic (Apr 16, 2020)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> Aw heck, if you are in the same house you are already sharing. no need for social distancing in the house. Now when I visit my parents, we are the perfect 6 feet away from each other, but mostly to keep me at a distance. I miss giving hugs out to my residents and sharing us time with friends at work. I miss chatting with my neighbors and cashiers in the store. Since we (The facility) are essential workers, we at least have been able to leave the house on a regular basis, but this puts our loved ones at risk.
> 
> What's bad, is this is taking a toll on our nerves and causes lots of stress, my co-workers and I are getting cabin fever of a different sort.


 

Not sure your thinking is correct Fiona - In Canada, there have been a number of cases discussed where an Asymtomatic spouse has infected the other half. 
My spouse goes out to do the grocery shopping, and I stay home.
In the event she has somehow contracted the virus while out in the public, when she returns home we try to self-isolate from each other as best we can, for a quarantine period of 8-10  days to ensure neither one of us doesn't show any symptomatic indicators of infection. Then, we proceed normally as a duo sharing the same house.

You did say above,  that when, quote: 'you leave the house......, this puts our loved ones at risk' - which expresses exactly our view.
We believe our precautions are a cautious approach to follow.


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## Cooking Goddess (Apr 17, 2020)

*RRM*, Himself and I are doing social distancing at home, too, but we're waiting the full 14 day incubation period before we get cuddly. We've air-kissed from six feet away since I grocery shopped last week Wednesday, and haven't hugged.  I miss his hugs. We sleep separate, too, but not because of Covid-19. He's a loud snorer, I'm a tosser-turner, and we get better sleep when in our own rooms. Found out by happenstance; each time he had a medical incident (two bad back episodes and broken bones in two separate motorcycle accidents) we'd take to different beds. When we realized we each got a much better night of sleep, we just continued with the program.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Apr 17, 2020)

I don't know, only cats and dog as roomies at this time. But, I am fairly certain if Shrek was still with us, he'd just look at me and say, "For better or worse..." and then give me a hug.


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## kleenex (Apr 17, 2020)

'Price Is Right' Contestant Wins 2020 Stanley Cup Final Trip. Womp Womp.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/price-is-right-stanley-cup-coronavirus-161748378.html


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## Andy M. (Apr 19, 2020)

Given the current situation, don't you think it's a good idea to restrict our interactions so people don't die?


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## taxlady (Apr 19, 2020)

Andy M. said:


> Given the current situation, don't you think it's a good idea to restrict our interactions so people don't die?



Yes, of course

I just noticed that you were replying to a comment that seems to have been deleted.


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