# Are any of you members of a csa?



## Skittle68 (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm thinking about joining a CSA next year (a community supported agricultural group for those of you who don't know). Do any of you do this? Do you find that it's worth it? Should I maybe try to find someone to split it with me?


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## Dawgluver (Jul 24, 2012)

That's where they deliver weekly produce, right?  My brother and his wife used to belong to one, and when we visited last year, what I noticed was an awful lot of produce just sitting and rotting on the counter.  They couldn't keep up.  You might want to split a membership!


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## justplainbill (Jul 24, 2012)

You may want to try it for 1 season.
Pros: 
-opportunity to sample new produce
-contributes to a 'worthy' cause
-encourages consumption of wholesome foods
-can provide an opportunity to meet new people
Cons:
-can make meal planning a challenge
-availability / selection of the produce you prefer may be limited
-sort of a one way street (you pay in advance for the CSAs best efforts and suffer   the consequences of their failures)
-can be expensive on a price per pound basis


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## Skittle68 (Jul 24, 2012)

If I do it I will probably end up freezing quite a bit, possibly cooking full meals and freezing them individually so things don't go to waste. 

I heard that the price per lb is low compared to a grocery store (kind of like buying a side of beef), unless of course the farm has a bad year, like with this draught in the Midwest.


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## justplainbill (Jul 24, 2012)

Our CSA charges $70 for 120 chicken eggs ( 6 eggs per week for 20 weeks).
That quantity of eggs can pretty much be produced by not much more than one chicken.


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## Skittle68 (Jul 24, 2012)

justplainbill said:
			
		

> Our CSA charges $70 for 120 chicken eggs ( 6 eggs per week for 20 weeks).
> That quantity of eggs can pretty much be produced by not much more than one chicken.



That's ridiculous. All of them are different of course, but the average price I was told was that it was $300 for the year and you generally get about 300 lb of produce. 

I buy farm fresh eggs from a local lady with chickens for $1/dozen. I certainly wouldn't be part of THAT csa.


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## Andy M. (Jul 24, 2012)

justplainbill said:


> Our CSA charges $70 for 120 chicken eggs ( 6 eggs per week for 20 weeks).
> That quantity of eggs can pretty much be produced by not much more than one chicken.



$7.00 a dozen!  They must be special!


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## CWS4322 (Jul 24, 2012)

I am not a member of a CSA...however, I do have 6 families that come and get eggs, veggies...so I guess I'm a CSA provider...


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## CWS4322 (Jul 24, 2012)

Andy M. said:


> $7.00 a dozen!  They must be special!


Wow! I feel bad about asking $4/dozen. Hmmm...maybe I can ship my excess eggs there and get $7 / dozen.

 I figure it costs about $1.25 for the feed that I buy. I also free-range my hens. And then there is the time to feed them, lock them up at night, clean up after them, etc. I'm making about 50 cents/hour caring for the hens--sorry, that is -50 cents an hour. But, who knew having chickens could be som much FUN!!!


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## CWS4322 (Jul 24, 2012)

Skittle68 said:


> That's ridiculous. All of them are different of course, but the average price I was told was that it was $300 for the year and you generally get about 300 lb of produce.
> 
> I buy farm fresh eggs from a local lady with chickens for $1/dozen. I certainly wouldn't be part of THAT csa.


That person is losing $. If I could, I'd sell the girls' eggs for $1/dozen, but I can't


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## Skittle68 (Jul 24, 2012)

CWS4322 said:
			
		

> I am not a member of a CSA...however, I do have 6 families that come and get eggs, veggies...so I guess I'm a CSA provider...



Selling eggs/produce is not a CSA- in a CSA membership people pay for a share at the beginning of the season, and get a percentage of the produce. It can be a really good deal, or you can get screwed if it's a bad year.


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## Uncle Bob (Jul 24, 2012)

*Not a member, never been a member ~~ not sure one exist around me..Based on what I've read here and there it's mostly a license to steal $7 - $9 a dozen eggs. They kill one hog and 8 people get a Boston Butt....really??? ~ Milk a cow, and everybody gets a pint of milk a week....A pint a week??? What the H. E. double El ya do wit dat??? Huh??? ~~~ I get $3 a dozen for eggs...those I don't give away. It pays my feed bill every month. ~~~ I'm sure there's OK programs out there...but mostly what I read about.....Buyer Beware!!*


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## justplainbill (Jul 24, 2012)

Skittle68 said:


> That's ridiculous. All of them are different of course, but the average price I was told was that it was $300 for the year and you generally get about 300 lb of produce.
> 
> I buy farm fresh eggs from a local lady with chickens for $1/dozen. I certainly wouldn't be part of THAT csa.


Too many artsy fartsy snobs, who appear to have money to burn, have invaded my area.  Our CSA has legal status as a not for profit educational organization and is staffed mainly by volunteers.  The banjo playing  management of this operation consider it to be a noble experiment worthy of charging what the market will bear.  It's certainly noble in the sense that the property it occupies traces its origins to a 17th century king's grant.
We're willing to pay $4 to $5 per dozen for really tasty eggs, but $7 is obscene.


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## justplainbill (Jul 24, 2012)

Uncle Bob said:


> *Not a member, never been a member ~~ not sure one exist around me..Based on what I've read here and there it's mostly a license to steal $7 - $9 a dozen eggs. They kill one hog and 8 people get a Boston Butt....really??? ~ Milk a cow, and everybody gets a pint of milk a week....A pint a week??? What the H. E. double El ya do wit dat??? Huh??? ~~~ I get $3 a dozen for eggs...those I don't give away. It pays my feed bill every month. ~~~ I'm sure there's OK programs out there...but mostly what I read about.....Buyer Beware!!*


++1


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## Steve Kroll (Jul 24, 2012)

justplainbill said:


> Our CSA charges $70 for 120 chicken eggs ( 6 eggs per week for 20 weeks).


That's obscene. The CSA we used to belong to charged $3 a dozen, which I thought was a very good price for the quality.

We did the CSA thing for a year. I thought the value was good overall, but what I didn't like was the "mystery basket" aspect of it, or the fact that it was generally more food than we could eat. These days I get my veggies from the farmers market. I get to pick what I want as opposed having someone else pick it for me.


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## Dawgluver (Jul 24, 2012)

Steve Kroll said:
			
		

> That's obscene. The CSA we used to belong to charged $3 a dozen, which I thought was a very good price for the quality.
> 
> We did the CSA thing for a year. I thought the value was good overall, but what I didn't like was the "mystery basket" aspect of it, or the fact that it was generally more food than we could eat. These days I get my veggies from the farmers market. I get to pick what I want as opposed having someone else pick it for me.



My brother lives in your neck of the woods, Steve, and they also cancelled their membership.  There are some great farmers markets around there.


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## Hoot (Jul 24, 2012)

justplainbill said:


> *The banjo playing  management *









Speaking as a banjo player, why is it that banjo pickers get no respect?


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## Whiskadoodle (Jul 24, 2012)

My Fr is a CSA member. She splits a membership with her sister.  And she gives a lot to her brother too.  It seems like there is a lot to use up each week in smaller households.  I have been on the receiving end too, so it doesn't seem to go to waste around here.   As a comparison,  I like that you can just buy smaller amounts at local food coops and farmer's markets.  I recognize not everyone has such places to shop like we seem to have here.    I have so much stuff in the house right now, I don't think I could handle a weekly CSA order.  The produce my fr receives is quite varied,  all fresh and freshly harvested.


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## Dawgluver (Jul 24, 2012)

Hoot said:
			
		

> Speaking as a banjo player, why is it that banjo pickers get no respect?



Not true, Hoot!  We love banjo!


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## Hoot (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks...I reckon I just needed to stand up for us.....


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## bakechef (Jul 24, 2012)

I've considered a local beef csa, their beef averages $7 per pound for local, grass fed beef.  Difference is you know what you will get from month to month, and is less volitile than veggies, and it can be easily frozen.


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## CWS4322 (Jul 24, 2012)

Okay folks. You don't raise hens and you don't plant the garden. So you don't like what comes out of the garden when it is ready. No offense, folks, but go ahead and start the seeds, baby the plants in the greenhouse, hope that the ground is workable when you want to put the plants/seeds in, crap--you have to reseed because the weather didn't cooperate...any maybe you'd like to invest in a high tunnel...don't like what you're getting from your CSA? Plant your own garden and raise your own hens/beef/pigs/lamb. See how much fun that is and how much $ goes down that toilet. After that experience, a CSA might be worth the $. Just saying. It was 33C with the humidity 41C today. I was picking beans...25 lb. What were you doing today--waiting for s/one to deliver your CSA box? Bottom line, you don't like what is in your CSA box--plant your own garden/raise your own livestock and hope for the best.


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## Andy M. (Jul 24, 2012)

Every product has a narrow range of reasonable prices.  Store-bought eggs are less than $2 a dozen.  Using that as a baseline, there is a range of reasonable prices for a dozen eggs.  I consider $7 a dozen way outside that range.

A CSA or any other business can't justify charging ridiculous prices just because it costs them a lot of money to harvest eggs.  Even if their eggs are FRESH and yummy, there's a limit on how much they're worth.  

We shop at stores for fresh veggies because of the convenience and the price stability.  The idea of paying much higher prices when you don't know how much you are getting or what it will be is not something most people want to deal with.  I know I don't.


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## Skittle68 (Jul 24, 2012)

CWS4322 said:
			
		

> Okay folks. You don't raise hens and you don't plant the garden. So you don't like what comes out of the garden when it is ready. No offense, folks, but go ahead and start the seeds, baby the plants in the greenhouse, hope that the ground is workable when you want to put the plants/seeds in, crap--you have to reseed because the weather didn't cooperate...any maybe you'd like to invest in a high tunnel...don't like what you're getting from your CSA? Plant your own garden and raise your own hens/beef/pigs/lamb. See how much fun that is and how much $ goes down that toilet. After that experience, a CSA might be worth the $. Just saying. It was 33C with the humidity 41C today. I was picking beans...25 lb. What were you doing today--waiting for s/one to deliver your CSA box? Bottom line, you don't like what is in your CSA box--plant your own garden/raise your own livestock and hope for the best.



A CSA is a great deal for a farmer, because even if it is a bad year they still get paid. That's a risk the consumer is taking, instead of the farmer. They are paid before the season starts. I agree they should be paid for their time, however, having someone pay you upfront, and come pick up the produce so you don't have to stand in a road side stand (or pay someone to do it), and the fact that they don't have to worry they will be stuck with a bunch of turnips that didn't sell should make it good incentive to make it a good deal for the CSA members. I still think it should be in that "reasonable price range" that was just mentioned, but I certainly don't think it should be MORE expensive. That's just backwards.


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## CWS4322 (Jul 24, 2012)

Andy M. said:


> Every product has a narrow range of reasonable prices.  Store-bought eggs are less than $2 a dozen.  Using that as a baseline, there is a range of reasonable prices for a dozen eggs.  I consider $7 a dozen way outside that range.
> 
> A CSA or any other business can't justify charging ridiculous prices just because it costs them a lot of money to harvest eggs.  Even if their eggs are FRESH and yummy, there's a limit on how much they're worth.
> 
> We shop at stores for fresh veggies because of the convenience and the price stability.  The idea of paying much higher prices when you don't know how much you are getting or what it will be is not something most people want to deal with.  I know I don't.


I don't charge "ridiculous" prices for my eggs. It costs me $1.25 in feed for 1 doz eggs. I have to clean the coop every day, feed the hens in the morning, let them out, and lock them up in at 8 p.m. I'd like to think my time and labor are worth more than $2 an hour. I'm sure you bill more than that Andy.


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## Skittle68 (Jul 24, 2012)

CWS4322 said:
			
		

> I don't charge "ridiculous" prices for my eggs. It costs me $1.25 in feed for 1 doz eggs. I have to clean the coop every day, feed the hens in the morning, let them out, and lock them up in at 8 p.m. I'd like to think my time and labor are worth more than $2 an hour. I'm sure you bill more than that Andy.



You don't charge $7 a dozen... He was talking about a CSA that worked out to $7 for a dozen eggs. I'm sure what you charge is perfectly reasonable.


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## CWS4322 (Jul 24, 2012)

Skittle68 said:


> A CSA is a great deal for a farmer, because even if it is a bad year they still get paid. That's a risk the consumer is taking, instead of the farmer. They are paid before the season starts. I agree they should be paid for their time, however, having someone pay you upfront, and come pick up the produce so you don't have to stand in a road side stand (or pay someone to do it), and the fact that they don't have to worry they will be stuck with a bunch of turnips that didn't sell should make it good incentive to make it a good deal for the CSA members. I still think it should be in that "reasonable price range" that was just mentioned, but I certainly don't think it should be MORE expensive. That's just backwards.


BS--if the CSA farmer doesn't have the crops promised, the CSA farmer has to find them--my friend who does this was short on eggs last week--she had to buy eggs from s/one else to satisfy her CSA egg contract. Come on out to my gardens and see how much fun it is and how much $ we actually make at the end of the day. We can't even qualify re: taxes and what the ON government requires for us to take the farm deductions at the farm. You've got the wrong idea about how small farms operate. And, those are a lot of the CSA folks.


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## Andy M. (Jul 24, 2012)

CWS4322 said:


> I don't charge "ridiculous" prices for my eggs. It costs me $1.25 in feed for 1 doz eggs. I have to clean the coop every day, feed the hens in the morning, let them out, and lock them up in at 8 p.m. I'd like to think my time and labor are worth more than $2 an hour. I'm sure you bill more than that Andy.



Calm down.  I never said you charged ridiculous prices.  I was referring to the CSA that charged $7 a dozen.

I understand farming/raising chickens is hard work and not free.  My point was that consumers expect reasonable prices not a carte blanche to charge whatever the traffic will bear.

None of what I said was directed at what you do.  I was responding to your post where you were defending farmers...  

_"Okay folks. You don't raise hens and you don't plant the garden. So you  don't like what comes out of the garden when it is ready. No offense,  folks, but go ahead and start the seeds, baby the plants in the  greenhouse, hope that the ground is workable when you want to put the  plants/seeds in, crap--you have to reseed because the weather didn't  cooperate...any maybe you'd like to invest in a high tunnel...don't like  what you're getting from your CSA? Plant your own garden and raise your  own hens/beef/pigs/lamb. See how much fun that is and how much $ goes  down that toilet. After that experience, a CSA might be worth the $.  Just saying. It was 33C with the humidity 41C today. I was picking  beans...25 lb. What were you doing today--waiting for s/one to deliver  your CSA box? Bottom line, you don't like what is in your CSA box--plant  your own garden/raise your own livestock and hope for the best."_


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## CWS4322 (Jul 24, 2012)

Andy M. said:


> Calm down.  I never said you charged ridiculous prices.  I was referring to the CSA that charged $7 a dozen.
> 
> I understand farming/raising chickens is hard work and not free.  My point was that consumers expect reasonable prices not a carte blanche to charge whatever the traffic will bear.
> 
> ...


I will defend farmers--we farm--but our farm is for our own consumption...so you gotta maintain the tractors, plow the fields, etc., etc., etc. Farmers feed us. It is hard work and it is highly under valued. Nice that you can have a job that pays you a regular pay check every 2 weeks. Some of us don't have that security. Wish I did. If you need an editor or writer, I'd be interested.


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## CWS4322 (Jul 24, 2012)

Okay--$7/doz is high. The organic feed I can buy is 3x what I can get at the feed store. My hens hunt and peck on the yard. I haven't put anything on the lawn since........1991. So, I'm pretty sure what the hens are eating is more or less organic. I think the eggs I collect are worth....$10 a dozen. No, $15, no, priceless. (But I do supplement what they eat on the yard with feed from the feed store--and, I don't buy organic feed for them). I barter the eggs--I cannot sell them (legally) so I barter them for curry powder, dog sitting when I go to MN, ground lamb....


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## Andy M. (Jul 24, 2012)

CWS4322 said:


> I will defend farmers--we farm--but our farm is for our own consumption...so you gotta maintain the tractors, plow the fields, etc., etc., etc. Farmers feed us. It is hard work and it is highly under valued. Nice that you can have a job that pays you a regular pay check every 2 weeks. Some of us don't have that security. Wish I did. If you need an editor or writer, I'd be interested.



We all make decisions that effect our life and income.  To each his own.  I'm retired and living on a fixed income.


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## taxlady (Jul 24, 2012)

I had a look at the typical basket and it really didn't appeal to me. So I never signed up.

I have no objection to the idea that I get a percentage of what the farmers produce. I understand that in a bad year, it will be less, but I expect it to be more in a good year.

I would expect that if the chickens didn't lay enough eggs one week, that I would get less eggs that week. I wouldn't expect the farmer to buy eggs to "fulfill the contract". I don't think that was the idea with CSAs.


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## Cheryl J (Jul 24, 2012)

I checked it out too, but never signed up.  With it being just me here most of the time, even the small box would be more than I could eat.  They also charge $7/dozen for their eggs, that is way more than I'll spend.  

There are locals here that sell fresh eggs for $4/dozen, and I buy from them.  I also buy from the farmer's market, it's only 3 miles up the road and fresh from Central CA.  I can choose what and how much I want, so that works well for me.


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## Skittle68 (Jul 24, 2012)

CWS4322 said:
			
		

> BS--if the CSA farmer doesn't have the crops promised, the CSA farmer has to find them--my friend who does this was short on eggs last week--she had to buy eggs from s/one else to satisfy her CSA egg contract. Come on out to my gardens and see how much fun it is and how much $ we actually make at the end of the day. We can't even qualify re: taxes and what the ON government requires for us to take the farm deductions at the farm. You've got the wrong idea about how small farms operate. And, those are a lot of the CSA folks.



It's not BS, that is how it's supposed to work... You don't know how much the yield is going to be until the harvest. They originally started out with people who pooled money, bought the land, and hired a farmer and each took a percentage. Very few of those exist now- it developed into the CSA we know now, but it's supposed to be the same principle. You are supposed to benefit from the lower cost, and fresher produce, but take a risk of suffering though the bad years with the farmers. No CSA I know of has a specific amount they agree to fulfill, and if they do, it defeats the purpose, in my opinion. 

Oh another side note, the CSA's I know, have a specific pickup day, and if you miss it, you just miss out that week. Another benefit to the farmer.


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## Andy M. (Jul 24, 2012)

These same farmers have booths at the local farmer's markets.  In town "A" on Thursdays, town "B" on Friday, etc.  Several have told me they make more from these FMs than selling through conventional means.  I visited our local FM last week and saw prices I thought were out of line so I haven't been back since.


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## Steve Kroll (Jul 25, 2012)

Andy M. said:


> I visited our local FM last week and saw prices I thought were out of line so I haven't been back since.


I guess things must be different in other parts of the country. I love farmers markets. Seriously, I can walk into almost any FM around here and come away with as many vegetables as I can carry for about 12 bucks. With the exception of fruit, which is expensive, I find the prices overall to be about half of what they are in the grocery stores.


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## Skittle68 (Jul 25, 2012)

Steve Kroll said:
			
		

> I guess things must be different in other parts of the country. I love farmers markets. Seriously, I can walk into almost any FM around here and come away with as many vegetables as I can carry for about 12 bucks. With the exception of fruit, which is expensive, I find the prices overall to be about half of what they are in the grocery stores.



The ones I've been to the prices have been just slightly more. Worth it for the higher quality.


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## Andy M. (Jul 25, 2012)

Sadly, not the case here.  One tomato - $2.50.


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## bakechef (Jul 25, 2012)

Veggies at the big FM here are cheaper than the grocery stores.  Fruit can be a little more, but is usually much fresher and local, the grocery store's peaches couldn't compare to the local ones.

Farmer's markets have become trendy, so the prices have jumped as a result.  Go to a farmer's market in a trendy or upscale part of town and prepare to pay.  The big farmer's market that I go to is poo pooed by many because there are vendors that aren't selling "local" products, so it isn't the "trendy" market and can't command the highest prices.


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## CWS4322 (Jul 25, 2012)

bakechef said:


> Veggies at the big FM here are cheaper than the grocery stores.  Fruit can be a little more, but is usually much fresher and local, the grocery store's peaches couldn't compare to the local ones.
> 
> Farmer's markets have become trendy, so the prices have jumped as a result.  Go to a farmer's market in a trendy or upscale part of town and prepare to pay.  The big farmer's market that I go to is poo pooed by many because there are vendors that aren't selling "local" products, so it isn't the "trendy" market and can't command the highest prices.


The cost of farming has gone up--fuel, seed costs, labor, feed, processing costs, (it costs $13 to have a duck processed here--to sell that duck as meat, it must be processed in a government-inspected facility),  everything has gone up. I think farming is one of those industries that one does not make minimum wage for the number of hours one spends. It is a lifestyle choice, but not one that is going to make one a lot of money and it definitely is one that takes a lot of money to do--most school bus drivers were I live are farmers. The cows can get milked before one has to go to work. 

Around here, most FM vendors are small farmers, not corporate farms. My friend does the FM and spends all of Friday getting ready--baking artisan breads, gathering eggs, picking, etc. We did the FM one year--it was a waste of time (not to mention, it was a LONG day because you have to pick in the a.m. and be ready at the FM at 9 a.m.). Also, one doesn't make a lot of $ after paying for the gas, the booth fee, and, the number of hours it takes to pick. Here in ON, things are regulated--if one cuts the tops off carrots, for example, those are processed and one has to do that in a commerical, inspected kitchen. I think the same rule applies if you wash the veggies. I am not allowed to sell my eggs--I don't have a grading license. 

My friend that does the CSA sells with/without egg shares (she's in MN), she also sells raw milk. I think she also does 1/2 share for folks who aren't going to eat all the veggies. Her husband has a real job. I have heard people complain about how much stuff they get in their boxes...I've got my own CSA box on the table right now....


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## bakechef (Jul 25, 2012)

CWS4322 said:
			
		

> The cost of farming has gone up--fuel, seed costs, labor, feed, processing costs, (it costs $13 to have a duck processed here--to sell that duck as meat, it must be processed in a government-inspected facility),  everything has gone up. I think farming is one of those industries that one does not make minimum wage for the number of hours one spends. It is a lifestyle choice, but not one that is going to make one a lot of money and it definitely is one that takes a lot of money to do--most school bus drivers were I live are farmers. The cows can get milked before one has to go to work.
> 
> Around here, most FM vendors are small farmers, not corporate farms. My friend does the FM and spends all of Friday getting ready--baking artisan breads, gathering eggs, picking, etc. We did the FM one year--it was a waste of time (not to mention, it was a LONG day because you have to pick in the a.m. and be ready at the FM at 9 a.m.). Also, one doesn't make a lot of $ after paying for the gas, the booth fee, and, the number of hours it takes to pick. Here in ON, things are regulated--if one cuts the tops off carrots, for example, those are processed and one has to do that in a commerical, inspected kitchen. I think the same rule applies if you wash the veggies. I am not allowed to sell my eggs--I don't have a grading license.
> 
> My friend that does the CSA sells with/without egg shares (she's in MN), she also sells raw milk. I think she also does 1/2 share for folks who aren't going to eat all the veggies. Her husband has a real job. I have heard people complain about how much stuff they get in their boxes...I've got my own CSA box on the table right now....



I'm definitely not saying that the products aren't worth the premium price, but you can easily see a price difference depending on the side of town that the market is located.  

I've grown food, grew up with chickens, so I know what goes into producing this food, it has to be a labor of love, because it is a lot of work for the return you get.


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