# What vanilla to buy?



## JoAnn L. (Sep 29, 2006)

Do you have a favorite brand of vanilla? I was at WalMart this morning and found that they carry the Watkins Brand. They had 3 different types, Imitation, Pure and Double Flavor. There are so many different brands in the stores and so many different prices.  Are they all pretty much the same? What do you recommend?


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## ChefJune (Sep 29, 2006)

I use _only_ Pure Vanilla Extract, and I prefer the Bourbon-Madagascar from Neilsen-Massey. It's widely available at Williams-Sonoma on line and in their stores... or just google it.

When I was teaching regularly, in my baking classes I used to bring several vanillas to class for the students to try. We sometimes baked the same recipe with different vanillas. You CAN tell the difference! The stuff in the bottles with the red, white and blue labels in the grocery store may be "pure vanilla extract," but no way does it compare favorably to the Neilsen-Massey... (imo, of course!)


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## vagriller (Sep 29, 2006)

I remember an episode of America's Test Kitchen's where they tested different types of vanilla extract. They mixed a measured amount of several popular and some exotic varieties with milk. The mix had a much stronger vanilla flavor than you would likely taste with any recipe. The results proved that they were all very similiar, and used in a recipe the difference would be even less noticable. That is my story and I'm sticking to it!


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## ChefJune (Sep 29, 2006)

Vagriller, if you haven't tested them yourself, why would you dispute someone who has?


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## jennyema (Sep 29, 2006)

My favorite is Penzey's double strength.

Cook's Illustrated/America's test Kitchen *did* do a taste test a while back that contended that imitation vanilla was pretty much as good as pure vanilla.

IMO it's not, but I have used it in a pinch and it's not terrible.


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## tntvermilion (Sep 29, 2006)

I have always used Watkins double vanilla, but I think I will try the Neilsen-Massey.  You can tell a difference between brands.  I just bought spice island brand pure vanilla, I don't know anything about it, but I hope it is good.


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## vagriller (Sep 29, 2006)

ChefJune said:
			
		

> Vagriller, if you haven't tested them yourself, why would you dispute someone who has?



Are you referring to yourself or ATK? I'm not disputing with either, just posting what I saw, mmkay?


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## GB (Sep 29, 2006)

I am with Jenny. I like the Penzey's double strength.

I love watching Americas Test Kitchen, but what they say is not gospel. I find that sometimes I agreee with their choices and other times I think they are way off base. Taste is very subjective so there is no right answer.


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## bethzaring (Sep 29, 2006)

IMO, I can taste a hugh difference between imitation vanilla and Bourbon-Madagascar from Neilsen-Massey.  I started baking when I was a kid, in my cooking-challanged Mom's kitchen.  She only kept imitation vanilla.  When I moved out and started to keep my own kitchen, I started with store bought pure vanilla.  I know only use the Bourbon-Madagascar from Neilsen-Massey.  This vanilla is heavenly in cookies and whatever else you bake.

So to answer your question, no, all vanillas are pretty much not all the same.  You get what you pay for.  If you can afford it, try a very good vanilla.


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## jennyema (Sep 29, 2006)

Never use the really cheap stuff from Mexico, as it often contains Coumarin, which is toxic.


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## Alix (Sep 29, 2006)

jennyema said:
			
		

> Never use the really cheap stuff from Mexico, as it often contains Coumarin, which is toxic.


 
Ummmmm...HOLY CRAP! How do you know which are the cheap brands from Mexico???? I've had two people bring back bottles for me and I am using one of them now. Is Coumarin a blood thinner? Like Coumadin?


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## pdswife (Sep 29, 2006)

I always buy my vanilla in Mexico.  It is cheap... and it's good.
I've been getting it for years and I'm still alive.   I'll have to check to see if
there's any coumarin in it.   

I'm sure the lable is printed in Spanish..do you know the spanish word for it Jenny?


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## GB (Sep 29, 2006)

My parents came back from Mexico many years ago and brought back a two pack of vanilla. I remember mom telling us not to touch them because one was poison and the other was not. I wondered why she even bothered bringing the bad one home.


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## jennyema (Sep 29, 2006)

From Vanilla.com
*"Coumarin *

Coumarin is a derivative of the tonka bean, which comes from Dipteryx ordorata, a tree native to Brazil. Some of the organic constituents that make up its flavor are similar to, or the same as, those in pure vanilla. Coumarin is frequently found in synthetic vanillas from Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean as it's cheap and it makes synthetic vanilla taste more like the natural. Unfortunately, coumarin is considered toxic, especially to the liver, and potentially carcinogenic, and has been banned from the United States since the 1950s. (Dicumarol, which is a derivative of coumarin, is the active ingredient in certain blood-thinning medications, and is legal in the United States.)"

For more, browse HERE

I'm not sure that it would appear on the label in either English or Spanish. But if the vanilla is very cheap in price it's certain to be artificial, as we all know that vanilla beans are expensive. The artificial stuff is what they add Coumarin to, though obviously not all brands will do this.

IMO better safe than sorry.


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## vagriller (Sep 29, 2006)

bethzaring said:
			
		

> IMO, I can taste a hugh difference between imitation vanilla and Bourbon-Madagascar from Neilsen-Massey.  I started baking when I was a kid, in my cooking-challanged Mom's kitchen.  She only kept imitation vanilla.  When I moved out and started to keep my own kitchen, I started with store bought pure vanilla.  I know only use the Bourbon-Madagascar from Neilsen-Massey.  This vanilla is heavenly in cookies and whatever else you bake.
> 
> So to answer your question, no, all vanillas are pretty much not all the same.  You get what you pay for.  If you can afford it, try a very good vanilla.



Aw crap, now I gotta go get some good vanilla! That Madagascar Bourbon vanilla does sound good.


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## vagriller (Sep 29, 2006)

GB said:
			
		

> My parents came back from Mexico many years ago and brought back a two pack of vanilla. I remember mom telling us not to touch them because one was poison and the other was not. I wondered why she even bothered bringing the bad one home.



Maybe she didn't want you messing with them. Worked didn't it?


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## GB (Sep 29, 2006)

LOL very good point vagriller


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## shpj4 (Sep 29, 2006)

I always use Pure Vanilla Extract for baking.


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## Chef_Jen (Sep 29, 2006)

actually mexican vanilla can also be very good and expensive


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## carolelaine (Sep 29, 2006)

This is very interesting.  I didn't know about the toxic vanilla.  I have always used Watkins double vanilla, but next time I will try the Bourbon Madagascar.


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## jennyema (Sep 29, 2006)

Chef_Jen said:
			
		

> actually mexican vanilla can also be very good and expensive


 
Yes, the real stuff can be excellent.


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## Gretchen (Sep 29, 2006)

vagriller said:
			
		

> I remember an episode of America's Test Kitchen's where they tested different types of vanilla extract. They mixed a measured amount of several popular and some exotic varieties with milk. The mix had a much stronger vanilla flavor than you would likely taste with any recipe. The results proved that they were all very similiar, and used in a recipe the difference would be even less noticable. That is my story and I'm sticking to it!


 
The other thing a test by Cook's Illustrated (America's Test Kitchen, I believe)  did was to pick *artificial* vanilla as the best tasting vanilla.  That one result makes me shake my head and wonder WHO they have doing the tasting.  Artificial vanilla is nasty tasting.


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## ChefJune (Sep 29, 2006)

bethzaring said:
			
		

> IMO, I can taste a hugh difference between imitation vanilla and Bourbon-Madagascar from Neilsen-Massey. I started baking when I was a kid, in my cooking-challanged Mom's kitchen. She only kept imitation vanilla. When I moved out and started to keep my own kitchen, I started with store bought pure vanilla. I know only use the Bourbon-Madagascar from Neilsen-Massey. This vanilla is heavenly in cookies and whatever else you bake.
> 
> So to answer your question, no, all vanillas are pretty much not all the same. You get what you pay for. If you can afford it, try a very good vanilla.


I'm with you on that, Beth.  I've even made "Vanilla Bean" Ice cream with only the extract from Neilsen-Massey, and my eaters thought it was my "best vanilla yet!"  Go figure!

I don't know whether or not any of you know the "Vanilla Queen," Patricia Rain, but she has a GREAT vanilla web site at www.vanilla.com.  She offers a number of top quality vanillas on her site, and I've tried a few.  I know some folks who prefer one or another of hers, but my pref is the Neilsen-Massey.. In fact, I buy it direct from them in bulk, cause I use a lot of it.


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## Yakuta (Sep 29, 2006)

I use a lot of vanilla in my baking and I bought the Tones brand - pure vanilla extract from SAMS club.  It's much cheaper than other stores and you get a lot.  I also bought the same brand pure almond extract and that's good too. I also have the more expensive Madagascar brand that I got as a gift from a friend who bought it at Crate and Barrel but I can't tell the difference.  

Not to go off on a tangent here but I dont know why vanilla beans are so so expensive.  I guess the craze of it being gourmet in the west has made it so expensive and inaccessible (unless you go to specialty stores and pay a huge premium). 

Growing up most of our friends who went to Dar-es-Salaam in Africa would bring us tons of vanilla beans.  These were so soft, plump and pliable.  We would refuse them because we did not know what to do with some much vanilla.  We would make vanilla sugar, custards etc but baking was not as popular in India and Indian desserts don't really use vanilla so at some point we use throw it out.  The irony is that now I miss having them but no more members from the US go to Africa any more and I have heard it's gotten very pricey even in Africa.


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## Gretchen (Sep 29, 2006)

Alix said:
			
		

> Ummmmm...HOLY CRAP! How do you know which are the cheap brands from Mexico???? I've had two people bring back bottles for me and I am using one of them now. Is Coumarin a blood thinner? Like Coumadin?


 
If you buy it in a grocery for under a dollar, don't.

I have bought many a bottle of excellent vanilla in Mexico.


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## TexasTamale (Sep 29, 2006)

ChefJune said:
			
		

> Vagriller, if you haven't tested them yourself, why would you dispute someone who has?


 
*CUZ.....*
that's what we are here for "Chef".... June ....
Not all of us are by "trade" Chefs....and sometimes...we "think" together...

I was raised on "Mexico Vanilla"...
it will NOT taste as good as "expensive", because it is Mexico...but, I would use it in a "contest" with you, because it is what "makes-my-recipe" taste the way it does...


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## thymeless (Sep 29, 2006)

In cooked foods, Cook's Illustrated blind tasting panel found no difference between artificial and the real thing. Except cost of course.

In uncooked foods, they could tell the difference and preferred the real thing. 

I don't bake a lot of sweets so I don't sweat it too much.

thymeless


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## Chopstix (Sep 29, 2006)

I have the Madagascar-Bourbon Vanilla Bean Paste from Williams Sonoma. It contains vanilla bean seeds which gives a gourmet look to custards and stuff. It definitely renders a much more distinctive vanilla taste and smell than the artificial ones. (Well, maybe my artificial one isn't that good to start with...)


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## karadekoolaid (Sep 29, 2006)

Just to bring us all down to earth a little... 

"REAL" vanilla is the seed pod of an (originally) Mexican orchid. the word " Vanilla" is an English corruption of the Spanish word "Vainilla", meaning sheath, or (long) bean . 
The vanilla orchid only grows at a certain altitude ( I recall it has to be more than 2,000 mts, but I may be wrong) in a certain climate with a certain temperature and a certain micro-environment. For that reason it is so expensive. You cannot find Hydroponic Vanilla, thank God!

"Someone" ( probably the local indigenous population) discovered the extraordinary perfume, allure and flavour. 

If you want to taste Heaven, buy yourself a REAL vanilla pod,split in two, scrape out the seeds and prepare yourself for a culinary experience. 

If you want to use run-of-the-mill stuff, that's also fine (vanilla is very expensive) but you'll be missing out on a very special flavour. 

Regarding "Toxic" Mexican vanilla extract -it's false. I'm happy to announce that this is complete rubbish, since the label MUST display all ingredients.Unfortunately, if ONE product slips through the net, then ALL products are I've spoken to Mexican producers who assure me that only the very cheapest brands use coumarin. Coumarin tastes a little like vanilla, too. 

The exhortation remains. Buy _the real thing, boys and girls, _and you won't get any surprises!!


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## bevkile (Sep 29, 2006)

I made my own and gave gifts to my sister and friend. Bought 10 Madagascar beans for $20. Lovely beans. Bought two 750ml and one pint of vodka. Split the beans, and placed four beans in each 750ml and two in the pint. I did this 6 months ago. It will never get as dark as what you buy, but that is because commercial vanilla has "burned sugar" added to it, so my bil told me. I looked at the ingredients on some of my "pure vanilla" and none of them used sugar as an additive but they did have corn syrup added.

My sister has been using hers and says it is wonderful and it gets better each time she uses it.

Keep in mind the there is a loss in strength caused by heat in the baking process.


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## RPCookin (Sep 30, 2006)

Just checked out the bottle my wife brought back from Mexico earlier this year.  Ingredients are water, ethyl alcohol, vanilla pod, natural coloring and preservative.  The bottle specifically states that it does NOT contain coumarin.


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## scott123 (Sep 30, 2006)

A few years back Trader Joes used to sell 4 oz. of the Neilsen-Massey vanilla for $5. Those were the days. I was in vanilla heaven. Then the cyclone hit in Madagascar and the availability/prices skyrocketed. Although they've come down slightly since then, the demand for vanilla is such that it's still costly (Darn Food Network!).

TJs stop selling the Neilsen-Massey and replaced it with their own Madagascar/Tahitian blend. It's no Neilsen-Massey, but it is $4 for 4 oz. Compare that to $19 for 8 oz. for the Neilsen-Massey at Williams Sonoma, and it's a huge bargain. It's less than half the price, but definitely more than half the potency.

I've tried the Penzey's double strength. For the price that they're charging, it should have an in your face potency. It doesn't. I'm also not at all happy about the added sugar. Penzey's is 13.99 for a 4 oz. bottle of double strength extract. The Penzey's double strength is definitely stronger than the madagascar/tahitian single strength TJs, but there's no chance in heck it's 3.5 times stronger. No way. Maybe double. At this potency/price this makes Penzey more costly than Williams Sonoma. I didn't think it was possible for _any_ store to be more expensive than Williams Sonoma, especially when Penzey's spices are so inexpensive. But for some reason vanilla at Penzey's... cha ching!

If I had money to burn... I'd probably get Neilsen-Massey vanilla (along with 3 year old Parmigiano Reggiano). With my budget as it is, it's TJs all the way (for my both my vanilla and my 1 yr. old parm).


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## scott123 (Sep 30, 2006)

bevkile said:
			
		

> It will never get as dark as what you buy, but that is because commercial vanilla has "burned sugar" added to it, so my bil told me. I looked at the ingredients on some of my "pure vanilla" and none of them used sugar as an additive but they did have corn syrup added.



Your bil is incorrect. Some commercial vanillas contain sugar/corn syrup but many do not and are still dark colored. The reason why your homemade extract wasn't as dark as the commercial stuff was because you weren't using enough beans. For 750ml of vodka (I'd, personally, use grain alcohol for a cleaner taste) you'd want to use at least 12 beans, definitely not 4.


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## kadesma (Sep 30, 2006)

_This is interesting, I love vanilla but with the ones I'd had at home there was always something missing in the finished product. Then smell when mixing was great, but no hint at all when finished. I was watching a program on food network I think or PBS  and they were talking about vanilla. It was said to check the label and get one with no sugar added to it, and to get pure vanilla. So I started looking and found  the usual and then two unknown to me. I tried the Morton Basset pure vanilla..The smell was wondrful, so I used it in some french toast, there it was that thing that was missing from the others a slight hint of vanilla in your mouth...I have to say, it made my old hum drum french toast come to life..So for me I can tell the difference in vanilla and am I glad I watched that program. _
_kadesma_


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## college_cook (Oct 1, 2006)

I don't bake much, so I normally use the imitation stuff if I'm just experiemnting or making something on the fly.  When I do some serious baking then I pull out my botle of pure vanilla extract.

An interesting sidenote about flavor differences, I love the flavor imparted by vanilla beans a gazillion times better than any extracts or imitations I have tried.  The restaurant I work for actually makes their own vanilla extract, and I'm curious s to how the process is done.  I do know that Absolut vodka is involved in some way.  (For those who don't know, "pure vanilla extract" labaled vanilla products contain around 32-35% alcohol)


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## XeniA (Oct 1, 2006)

Always used real extract (raised on McCormick's; moved to Penzey's) but now I have to remember to bring some home from trips as it's not available here. Right now, I'm fresh out.

Here they use odd little capsules of a white powder. The name (and smell) is clearly indicating vanilla ("van-EE-lya") but it has to be artificial. I'd rather use alternate flavoring than fake so my white cakes have a hint of orange or lemon.

I thought one day I'd found the real deal at an extremely comprehensive spice specialty store down in the bowels of this big city, and they said it WAS "real" vanilla extract (a wee little bottle, to be used in drops) ... but if it was "real" anything, it was real vanillin. Ick and double ick. I chucked it.

My only alternative is to buy the beans, as frighteningly expensive here as anywhere (over 1 Euro a bean). Thus I have ... one ... sitting in a spice jar looking at me, and one of these days when I want to make a recipe where I absolutely can't avoid the flavor (homemade vanilla ice cream, let's say), I'll split it and use it and be right back where I was, between a rock and a hard place!


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## Ishbel (Oct 1, 2006)

A bit like those HUGE packs of 'saffron' that you can buy in Greek island markets... which turns out to be turmeric when you get it home, Ayrton!

I fell for it ONCE on Crete.  Too cute to do so again


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## bethzaring (Oct 1, 2006)

I buy Neilsen-Massey Madagascar Bourbon vanilla by the quart, for $37.95, which works out to about $9.50 for 8 ounces. I have never tried Penzey's.  I buy my vanilla online through King Arthur.  They(KA) also charge $19.95 for 8 ounces.


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## XeniA (Oct 1, 2006)

Ishbel said:
			
		

> A bit like those HUGE packs of 'saffron' that you can buy in Greek island markets... which turns out to be turmeric when you get it home, Ayrton!
> 
> I fell for it ONCE on Crete.  Too cute to do so again



Well, gosh, my tail IS between my legs for the entirety of my adopted country if you got gyped thus, Ishbel!

What's strange is that I do actually think we produce saffron here, as in, I have a vague memory of a documentary on it. Now if that's the case, why did you get ripped off???

Will investigate. Take it up with the authorities and all that.


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## Ishbel (Oct 1, 2006)

Seriously, I've had quite a few friends/acquaintances fall for the 'amazing value saffron' scam.  I was caught by my greed. I even questioned the stallholder, who'd lived in London, and who categorically assured me it was 'genuine saffron, powdered as is the custom here'.... YEAH, right!  

It's happened to friends on Cyprus, Paxon, Rhodes, Crete (me and two others with me at the market in Chania!) and Corful. 

As they sell it on market stalls, I suspect the authorities are either turning a blind eye, or are unaware of the scam!!


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## Gretchen (Oct 1, 2006)

thymeless said:
			
		

> In cooked foods, Cook's Illustrated blind tasting panel found no difference between artificial and the real thing. Except cost of course.
> 
> In uncooked foods, they could tell the difference and preferred the real thing.
> 
> ...


 
And I say that is just unbelievable--but they printed it. Vanillin has a very definite taste that is not pleasant.


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## XeniA (Oct 1, 2006)

Ishbel said:
			
		

> Seriously, I've had quite a few friends/acquaintances fall for the 'amazing value saffron' scam.  I was caught by my greed. I even questioned the stallholder, who'd lived in London, and who categorically assured me it was 'genuine saffron, powdered as is the custom here'.... YEAH, right!
> 
> It's happened to friends on Cyprus, Paxon, Rhodes, Crete (me and two others with me at the market in Chania!) and Corful.
> 
> As they sell it on market stalls, I suspect the authorities are either turning a blind eye, or are unaware of the scam!!



The "powdered as is the custom here" is a red flag right off. I'm well enough acquainted with the Greek stuff sold in supermarkets ... and it ain't powdered!

Was kidding about taking it up with the authorities , so please don't hold your breath for results. I wouldn't know where to get a "saffron authority" if I tried. Wonder what the package's small print in Greek said, though?


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## Gretchen (Oct 1, 2006)

scott123 said:
			
		

> Your bil is incorrect. Some commercial vanillas contain sugar/corn syrup but many do not and are still dark colored. The reason why your homemade extract wasn't as dark as the commercial stuff was because you weren't using enough beans. For 750ml of vodka (I'd, personally, use grain alcohol for a cleaner taste) you'd want to use at least 12 beans, definitely not 4.


 
Yup--many many many beans at a cost of how much for a homemade bottle of "vanilla"!!!  I have tried--just not for me in the least.


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## JoAnn L. (Oct 1, 2006)

I went on:

www.penzeys.com  and ordered their free catalog and then went on their 

search-vanilla-and got their prices and some great recipes. I see they have a store in Madison, Wi., the next time I am there to visit one of my sons I will have to stop in. I love those kinds of stores.


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## SNPiccolo5 (Oct 1, 2006)

I'm not really sure what the brand-name of the vanilla I use it, but I know that it's pure vanilla.  One of my friends only uses artificial vanilla extract, and I can always tell.  The first time, she had made brownies, and I was eating some, and couldn't really tell what that flavor in the background was...  Then she told me about how she always uses imitation vanilla, lo and behold, the taste I was thinking about a split second earlier was the similiar-to-maple flavor of artificial vanilla.  If I didn't have good vanilla, I would definitely use an alternate, not inferior, flavoring.

-Tim


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## scott123 (Oct 1, 2006)

JoAnn L. said:
			
		

> I went on:
> 
> www.penzeys.com  and ordered their free catalog and then went on their
> 
> search-vanilla-and got their prices and some great recipes.



For herbs/spices Penzeys is phenomenal, but when it comes to vanilla, I'm going to repeat what I said before- Penzeys vanilla is a huge ripoff.


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## RPCookin (Oct 1, 2006)

college_cook said:
			
		

> I don't bake much, so I normally use the imitation stuff if I'm just experiemnting or making something on the fly.  When I do some serious baking then I pull out my botle of pure vanilla extract.
> 
> An interesting sidenote about flavor differences, I love the flavor imparted by vanilla beans a gazillion times better than any extracts or imitations I have tried.  The restaurant I work for actually makes their own vanilla extract, and I'm curious s to how the process is done.  I do know that Absolut vodka is involved in some way.  (For those who don't know, "pure vanilla extract" labaled vanilla products contain around 32-35% alcohol)


Actually ethyl alcohol (the brand Im familiar with is called Everclear) is better to use than vodka as it imparts less of it's own flavor to the  extract. As mentioned earlier in this thread, you just have to put several pods in a bottle of alcohol and leave it to soak for a couple of months to extract the flavor from the vanilla beans.


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## bevkile (Oct 2, 2006)

RPCookin said:
			
		

> Actually ethyl alcohol (the brand Im familiar with is called Everclear) is better to use than vodka as it imparts less of it's own flavor to the extract. As mentioned earlier in this thread, you just have to put several pods in a bottle of alcohol and leave it to soak for a couple of months to extract the flavor from the vanilla beans.


 
Where does one buy Everclear?


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## Lynan (Oct 2, 2006)

I use Tahitian vanilla! Wonderful stuff, but I dont think it makes its way out of the South Pacific.


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## GB (Oct 2, 2006)

bevkile said:
			
		

> Where does one buy Everclear?


Everclear is a brand name of grain alcohol. It is illegal in some states. In know that it is illegal in MA so we need to go to NH to buy it. Usually it is not in plain sight. You would have to ask an employee for it. They would go in the back room and get it for you. It can be very dangerous stuff if used carelessly.


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## jennyema (Oct 2, 2006)

I agree with RP that if you are going to make your own vanilla, Everclear is better, as it will simulate real vanilla extract much more closely.

I can always taste the vodka in home made vanilla, and I don't care for it too much.

Anyone remember Everclear and Hawaiian Punch parties in college??


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## Andy M. (Oct 2, 2006)

GB said:
			
		

> Everclear is a brand name of grain alcohol. It is illegal in some states. In know that it is illegal in MA so we need to go to NH to buy it. Usually it is not in plain sight. You would have to ask an employee for it. They would go in the back room and get it for you. It can be very dangerous stuff if used carelessly.


 

...and you use it to make your own vanilla extract???


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## bevkile (Oct 2, 2006)

GB said:
			
		

> Everclear is a brand name of grain alcohol. It is illegal in some states. In know that it is illegal in MA so we need to go to NH to buy it. Usually it is not in plain sight. You would have to ask an employee for it. They would go in the back room and get it for you. It can be very dangerous stuff if used carelessly.


 
I still don't know what kind of a store to go to. Pharmacy or liquor, hardware or gas station? Maybe I should just stick to vodka. My taste buds are jaded anyway. Besides, I like vodka.


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## mish (Oct 2, 2006)

JoAnn L. said:
			
		

> Do you have a favorite brand of vanilla? I was at WalMart this morning and found that they carry the Watkins Brand. They had 3 different types, Imitation, Pure and Double Flavor. There are so many different brands in the stores and so many different prices. Are they all pretty much the same? What do you recommend?


 
I usually go with McCormick's, as it's readily available in my area, and have never been disappointed.


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## GB (Oct 2, 2006)

bevkile said:
			
		

> I still don't know what kind of a store to go to. Pharmacy or liquor, hardware or gas station? Maybe I should just stick to vodka. My taste buds are jaded anyway. Besides, I like vodka.


Sorry bevkile! I got so caught up in answering your question that I never actually answered it  

A liquor store is where you would find it.


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## GB (Oct 2, 2006)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> ...and you use it to make your own vanilla extract???


I have never made my own, but my wives bridesmaids maid it as favors for her shower. They used vodka. If I were to make it and grain alcohol was available then that is what I would use. I would not make a special trip to NH for it though. I would just use vodka if grain was not easily accessible.


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## jennyema (Oct 2, 2006)

They sell Everclear in Illinois so I put a bottle in my luggage, which come to think of it probably wasn't a very good idea .  The vanilla I made was pretty good, but it does really depend on the amount and quality of the vanilla beans you are using.

Besides making vanilla (or other extracts, I suppose), there isn't a whole lot to use Everclear for if you are over the age of 25.


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## RPCookin (Oct 2, 2006)

jennyema said:
			
		

> They sell Everclear in Illinois so I put a bottle in my luggage, which come to think of it probably wasn't a very good idea .  The vanilla I made was pretty good, but it does really depend on the amount and quality of the vanilla beans you are using.
> 
> Besides making vanilla (or other extracts, I suppose), there isn't a whole lot to use Everclear for if you are over the age of 25.



It's also used for making such delights as limoncello, an Italian dessert liqueur.  You put strips of lemon zest in a bottle of grain alcohol, leave it to soak for a couple of months, then strain out the peels and cut it with sugar water to taste.  Like vodka, you store it in the freezer and serve it very cold.  Done right, it's like liquid lemon drops, but with a kick...


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## Mel! (Oct 4, 2006)

*Vanilla*

I buy fresh vanilla, in the pods. I think the fresh real ones taste better, and are healthier. I dont know any particular brand name. But fresh is fresh. Any brand would be good.
Mel


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## Michael in FtW (Oct 4, 2006)

Actually, _*Everclear*_ is over-kill ... at 95% Ethanol (grain alcohol) = 190 Proof. It is illegal in Pennsylvania, Minnesota, Washington, California, Michigan, Ohio, Florida, Virginia and West Virginia (and that might not be a complete list) ... although some of those states may allow the sale of the "low octane" 151 -Proof (75.5%).

Pure vanilla extract is generally made from 35% ethanol (70-proof) alcohol ... check the labels. Most "homemade" vanilla extract is made from grinding up vanilla beans and soaking them in Bourbon.

Double-Flavor vanilla flavorings are actually lower in alcohol (around 8.5%) - but contain "impurities" - added sugars and artificial vanillan flavorings. 

Arificial vanialla is "usually" alcohol free and composed of synthetic "stuff" but doesn't really taste like real vanilla - usually based on the fundamental vanallian andsome sugars but lacks the true depth of flavor which is composed of over 200 different "flavoids".

I buy Watkins "Pure V. Extract" because that's what I grew up with - I've tried store brands and they were really crap. 

Now, to be honest - I've never tried the stuff from Neilsen-Massey. But, I'm thinking of taking the plunge and giving it a try this Christmas to see if it is any better than Watkins (which is also made from the same beans).



			
				Mel! said:
			
		

> I buy fresh vanilla, in the pods. I think the fresh real ones taste better, and are healthier. I dont know any particular brand name. But fresh is fresh. Any brand would be good.


 
Actually, Mel - if you ever got a "fresh" vanilla bean it would be green and you wouldn't like the taste! As far as being "healthier" - I sincerly doubt you can show where one bean is "healthier" than another - or that one extraction method is better than another. Vanilla beans are not fresh produce ...


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## jennyema (Oct 5, 2006)

Michael in FtW said:
			
		

> Actually, _*Everclear*_ is over-kill ... at 95% Ethanol (grain alcohol) = 190 Proof. It is illegal in Pennsylvania, Minnesota, Washington, California, Michigan, Ohio, Florida, Virginia and West Virginia (and that might not be a complete list) ... although some of those states may allow the sale of the "low octane" 151 -Proof (75.5%).


 

It may be overkill but it's the only flavorless alcohol safe for consumption available for retail purchase that I know of.  Vodka has a distict taste that -- to my palate -- ruins the vanilla.


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## RPCookin (Oct 5, 2006)

jennyema said:
			
		

> It may be overkill but it's the only flavorless alcohol safe for consumption available for retail purchase that I know of.  Vodka has a distict taste that -- to my palate -- ruins the vanilla.



I tend to agree.... and I can't conceive of making it with bourbon either as Michael suggests.  I don't like any sort of whiskey, and I can't imagine that the vanilla would completely cover up the taste of the liquor.


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## black chef (Oct 6, 2006)

jennyema said:
			
		

> Never use the really cheap stuff from Mexico, as it often contains Coumarin, which is toxic.



uh oh... i live in houston and do a LOT of shopping at Fiesta, so...


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## C-Mart (Oct 9, 2006)

I have used Trader Joe's vanilla and Penzey's vanilla (my current bottle). I have been happy with it, but never considered the "added" sugar aspect to it. I may check out the Neilsen brand, but I'll wait until I run out of the Penzey's stuff... a while since I don't use it that much.

Side note, I may be going to Torrance, CA on Thursday for a book signing, and I suddenly recalled the other day that Penzey's newest store is there!!! I get to go to Penzey's again!!! Yay!


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## mudbug (Oct 9, 2006)

RPCookin said:
			
		

> It's also used for making such delights as limoncello, an Italian dessert liqueur. You put strips of lemon zest in a bottle of grain alcohol, leave it to soak for a couple of months, then strain out the peels and cut it with sugar water to taste. Like vodka, you store it in the freezer and serve it very cold. Done right, it's like liquid lemon drops, but with a kick...


 
I have to enthusiastically agree with RP here and respectfully disagree with Michael in FtW.  HH bought Everclear for me in Pennsylvania to make my limoncello because it's not available here in VA.


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## marmar (Oct 9, 2006)

I just got some of that Neilsen-Massey vanilla (my grandmother brought me home some today) and I was suprised. I'd just asked her not to get imitation vanilla or vanilla flavoring. But she was at Williams-Sonoma and picked some up. She's usually pretty thrifty, so that suprised me.
It made me think of this discussion though.


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## karadekoolaid (Oct 9, 2006)

Just for the record (again)...

Buy the real thing. A vanilla pod. You will never regret it!!


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## Lenore (Oct 10, 2006)

*Vanilla*

I buy pure vanilla.  I do not like the Mexican vanilla.  It has a flavor I don't like


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## Michael in FtW (Oct 14, 2006)

Before some of you start casting votes to have me hauled off to the funny farm in a fancy white jacket where the sleeves tie in back:

I actually found recipes in 3 old (pre-1930) Southern cookbooks for making homemade vanilla extract that called for using bourbon. As far-fetched as this sounds (I thought it odd, too, at first) if you read Harold McGee's book _On Food and Cooking ..._ it appears that our Southern ancestors were on to something since bourbon actually develops some vanilla flavors during aging that both reinforce and enhance the vanilla flavors. Remember, the flavor of natural vanilla is a combination of something like 200+ different flavors - which is why imitation vanilla can't match the flavor (depth) of the real thing since they only imitate the primary predominant vanillan flavor.

For those who don't understand what *Everclear* is - it's basically unaged corn liquor which is distilled to get the highest octane possible. In the South - this would have been known in olden days as "corn liquor", "moonshine", or "white lightening". Unlike vodka it does have a more neutral flavor because it is distilled to a much purer degree of alcohol (95% vs 50% for Vodka) so it has less flavors from residual "impurities". 

The dichotomy is that the higher the alcohol content of the "extraction" liquid the greater the extraction %/rate - and the higher the alcohol % of the extraction liquid the greater the flavor loss during baking! The vanilla that professional bakers use, from what I have been able to find, is 8.5% alcohol and fortified with artificial vanillan flavoring, or they use "powdered" flavorings.

I'll admit that I might be crazy - but I'm not certifiably insane, yet!


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## Hungry (Oct 14, 2006)

*Vanilla*

I bought some vanilla in Mexico.  Brand name TOTONAC’S
The label read; (for what it’s worth) Water, Alcohol, Vanilla Bean extractives.  500 ml  
Note: This product does not contain Coumarin. 
This Vanilla has the brown color. 
Cost about $10.00

Another bottle, I bought and have used all of it, was white, It had a mild taste that was close to the Vanilla I’ve used in the past. (McCormicks)

Looking at the label on a bottle of McCormick’s “PURE VANILLA”,
Vanilla Bean extractives in water, Alcohol 35%, and Corn Syrup.
118 ml  about $8.00.

Doing my own taste test the Mexican vanilla had the vanilla taste, but was a little watery, very faint alcohol taste.
The McCormick’s had a much stronger Vanilla taste, the alcohol was stinging on the tongue, No hint of a corn syrup or sweet taste.

Charlie


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## avalondeb (Jan 23, 2007)

Neilsen-Massey or Penzey's Double Strength.  Don't get the Mexican vanilla, some of them contain a chemical that is toxic.


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## avalondeb (Jan 23, 2007)

Not to start a "ruckus", but here is the for real scoop on Mexican vanilla. It's almost 10 years old, so I don't know how much has changed, but here it is from the FDA's website:

IMPORT ALERT IA2807

Specific names are mentioned. However, remember that companies can close business and open under new names to escape "brand recognition". For that reason alone, I prefer to avoid Mexican vanilla altogether. I'd rather save up and spend the extra money getting something I KNOW is safe!

Hope I didn't step on anyone's toes!


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