# Steak well past its prime?



## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 15, 2012)

My friend has a theory that steaks get better as they age in his refrigerator, even up to the point that they _just begin_ to smell a little bit "off" odor. He says this is better than buying a freshly butchered stake and eating it the same day.

I've experimented a bit, buying steaks that were on the last day of their "use by" and offered as a 50% off at the market. I might have even let them go a couple days past the "use by" date.

I'm no expert (far from it) but I think his theory works. As a result I have no reluctance to purchase such steaks put on sale to get them out of the store by the "use by" date.

Discuss?


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## Andy M. (Feb 15, 2012)

As beef ages, enzymes break down the flesh and connective tissue to make it more flavorful.  The meat also loses moisture.  Aging is considered controlled spoilage so you have to be careful.  Beef is aged under controlled conditions to maximize the benefit while preventing spoilage that would ruin the meat.


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## TATTRAT (Feb 15, 2012)

read up on Dry aging, and it's very particular set of conditions. Not something I would try at home. Best reserved for larger primals of beef.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 15, 2012)

That's my point, Tat. AFAIK dry aging is used on the beef sides before the butcher cuts them up and puts them in little plastic containers. (And what I'm suggesting isn't dry aging, not when it's in a plastic package.)

And yet my friend swears by letting the package go to at least the "use by" date and I'm pretty sure he does it much longer. (A week?) I haven't gone much beyond a couple days, but I don't worry about the "use by" date much anymore at the market, because unless they're really messing up there won't be any meat on the store shelf that is past "use by" date.

I'm just saying that steak at the "use by" date might be better than one that got cut off the side that very morning. And even if it's not the safest idea going many days past the "use by" date it seems to work, at least to me it seems to work.

My friend who suggested this is an Internet friend. I've never met him in person but I've seen so many pictures of his cooking and the results, and discussed it with him so many times that I really respect his knowledge as an accomplished amateur chef (mostly grilling, smoking, barbecuing, meat stuff).

It's just a discussion point. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought it would be interesting to toss it into the DC discussion pit and let the fierce chefs rip the idea to shreds.


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## TATTRAT (Feb 15, 2012)

I hear ya, GC. 

While I can kinda see where your friend is coming from, you won't see me doing it, and not really because it's wrong, but I couldn't let a steak sit that long without it getting eaten.


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## Kayelle (Feb 15, 2012)

I think your friend has a valid point Greg. 

I was raised in a "mom & pop" meat market/grocery store circa 1948-1963.  Dad's meat was the best available, and his meat case was beautiful to behold. People came from miles around to buy meat there, and although his high prices were reflective of the quality and personal service, he did a wonderful business.  Nothing was "prepackaged"  and there certainly wasn't such a thing as an expiration date on the hand wrapped packages.
Because my Dad was also frugal, the steaks that we enjoyed eating as a family, were the ones that were "too dark" to sell.  I've always said I didn't know meat was red, or that grapes came on stems till I was married.  He often said the customers were missing out on the dark steaks and I later learned he was so right when I left home and started buying Super Market packaged meat. I often buy steaks in the marked down bin like you and your friend. Dark steaks always have more flavor.
Thanks for the opportunity to walk down memory lane.


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## visionviper (Feb 15, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> That's my point, Tat. AFAIK dry aging is used on the beef sides before the butcher cuts them up and puts them in little plastic containers. (And what I'm suggesting isn't dry aging, not when it's in a plastic package.)



The same concepts of dry aging apply though. The difference is that left in the plastic wrap it will spoil, whereas if you are properly dry aging it you can keep it good for months before you cook it up.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 15, 2012)

Yeah Kayelle, in fact that is what I'm referring to, keeping the steak to the point that there may be noticeable color change. I used to associate that with a "yuck factor," it's so old that the color is all messed up. I don't let the color bother me anymore.

I hear that many (some? all?) meats are packed with extra oxygen to keep the color red, much redder than you would get with plain air. Is that right?


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## CraigC (Feb 15, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> Yeah Kayelle, in fact that is what I'm referring to, keeping the steak to the point that there may be noticeable color change. I used to associate that with a "yuck factor," it's so old that the color is all messed up. I don't let the color bother me anymore.
> 
> I hear that many (some? all?) meats are packed with extra oxygen to keep the color red, much redder than you would get with plain air. Is that right?


 
I think they use nitrogen. I believe that oxygen would cause darkening much faster.


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## visionviper (Feb 15, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> I hear that many (some? all?) meats are packed with extra oxygen to keep the color red, much redder than you would get with plain air. Is that right?



True. Many places (aka not proper butcher shops) manipulate the meat or packaging in some way to keep the meat redder. When I want a nice steak I head over to our co-op and the steaks there are not as red as the ones I can pick up at Safeway.

The co-op steaks taste better too 

I have always wanted to do dry aging. I don't really have what I need to do it properly though, sadly. I don't want to take the risk of hodge-podging it since I have a strong preference for not giving myself food poisoning.


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## Bigjim68 (Feb 15, 2012)

visionviper said:


> The same concepts of dry aging apply though. The difference is that left in the plastic wrap it will spoil, whereas if you are properly dry aging it you can keep it good for months before you cook it up.


Very little meat at the supermarket is dry aged, and if it were and then cut and placed in a plastic container, you no longer are dry aging.  Dry aging requires a low humidity, low temperature environment with air circulation around each primal.  In the process, the meat will lose a large percentage of its weight.  Few, if any, supermarkets are set up to dry age.

Wet aging is more suitable for the home and comes close to achieving equal results.  All that is necessary is purchasing primal cuts in Cryovac, and leaving them as is in a referigerator for a period of weeks in their original package.

While I believe that the best and least expensive meat in a supermarket is found in the reduced meat section, I would pass on any that is off color.  It is near its end.
Once cut into serving pieces, meat will spoil instead of age.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 15, 2012)

CraigC said:


> I think they use nitrogen. I believe that oxygen would cause darkening much faster.



Yeah that sounds better, nitrogen not oxygen. Maybe I was thinking of oxygen making hemoglobin in blood red...



visionviper said:


> I don't want to take the risk of hodge-podging it since I have a strong preference for not giving myself food poisoning.



Here in the topic I'm discussing aging in the package within reason, and I'm also assuming a safe storage temperature. My basis is that the supermarket has safety experts who have determined what the safe package life is for the product, and that they have built in a margin for error. Of course we don't know what that margin is.

The concept is that maybe that steak right in the package might get better after spending a few days in your refrigerator, rather than just assuming that the freshest package purchased on the first day it was laid out in the store would be the best tasting steak. I think it's quite possible that the latter, freshest while best, might be a misconception.


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## Kayelle (Feb 15, 2012)

It's not oxygen or nitrogen that's injected into packaging to keep meat red.  They use carbon monoxide.

Edit: they may not use it anymore, but they did at one time.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 15, 2012)

Kayelle, that's even better! And I recall that people who have been subjected to carbon monoxide poisoning, their skin turns red.

I too don't know what they use these days, if anything.


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## TATTRAT (Feb 15, 2012)

They gas meat cases with Nitrogen, yes. Plastic wrap steaks are not gassed with anything. . .the high sided containers, with the single film across the top(I am not sure what exactly they are called)those are ones that have been gassed. NOT the simple styro flat pack containers, with the sponge in the bottom, but the high sided, all plastic containers.

As for individual steaks, dry aging is a moot point, by the time you trim the green, you wouldn't be left with much of a steak, that is why it is for large primals, and when sold in stores, you can normally see the area it is being stored, and it's all cut to order. . .at least that's how it is here.


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## buckytom (Feb 15, 2012)

i've found that there's a trade off with home aging steaks. while the steaks definitely get more tender, they don't taste as goood. a freshly cut chunk of cow definitely tastes better, imo.

a real dry aged steak comes from the middle cuts of a much larger piece, and there's a lot wasted that's unuseable. dry aging at home seems impractical since, as tatt said, it's done with a larger primal cut.


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## visionviper (Feb 15, 2012)

buckytom said:


> i've found that there's a trade off with home aging steaks. while the steaks definitely get more tender, they don't taste as goood. a freshly cut chunk of cow definitely tastes better, imo.
> 
> a real dry aged steak comes from the middle cuts of a much larger piece, and there's a lot wasted that's unuseable. dry aging at home seems impractical since, as tatt said, it's done with a larger primal cut.


 
If you have the know-how and plan on cooking for a lot of people, it works great. If you're cooking for one person, not so much.

It's like getting a nice big prime rib. Costs $150, but with how many people it feeds it comes out to $15 a plate.


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## TATTRAT (Feb 15, 2012)

visionviper said:


> If you have the know-how and plan on cooking for a lot of people, it works great. If you're cooking for one person, not so much.
> 
> It's like getting a nice big prime rib. Costs $150, but with how many people it feeds it comes out to $15 a plate.



If you have the know how, it doesn't matter for how many people you are cooking, I can go get a whole 0x1 or 1x1, do my thing, portion and hold/freeze.

Am I going to go through all that for one/two steaks at a time, heck no. I go to the butchers, say, "Hey Butcher, lemme see your cut ends(not end cuts)", and look at the marbling, and have him whack me off a couple.


Like I said earlier, A steak is kinda like a Guinness, if it's in the fridge, it's there to be consumed, and the sooner the better.


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## buckytom (Feb 15, 2012)

yeah, i guess if you're really motivated to do it yourself, and for a large group it works.  
i'd rather pay $20 +  per steak and have a pro do it properly.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 15, 2012)

BT I'm not discussing real dry aging (at home or anywhere). I'm discussing pop aging in the package. This is _junk_ cooking!  I was just curios for the take of my cooking expert friends here at DC.

This topic has nothing to do with real dry aging of meat, at home or anywhere else. I'm just suggesting that what happens in the package after you take it home from the supermarket might not be all bad, and that maybe those "last day" sales are a good way to save money and get a tasty steak too.


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## buckytom (Feb 15, 2012)

oh, i see.

then for me it's the fresher the better. i'd rather manually tenderize a steak that was just cut from a cow than let age do it's thing and lose the fresh meat flavour that i prefer.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 15, 2012)

Well Bt that's exactly what the topic is about (at least as I intended the OP). Is it better when it's fresher? I'm proposing that maybe it's not.

I think we all accept that a fresh killed cow cut into steaks is not as good as one that's been hung for weeks (or months). The question is whether that aging still has importance once in the plastic supermarket package.


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## buckytom (Feb 15, 2012)

ok, you're wrong.

lol, just kidding.


but you are... 

i like freshly killed and butchered meat.


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## visionviper (Feb 15, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> Well Bt that's exactly what the topic is about (at least as I intended the OP). Is it better when it's fresher? I'm proposing that maybe it's not.
> 
> I think we all accept that a fresh killed cow cut into steaks is not as good as one that's been hung for weeks (or months). The question is whether that aging still has importance once in the plastic supermarket package.



It makes complete sense to me that it could, as long as you made sure to cook before spoilage started taking hold.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 15, 2012)

Just to propose a number, I'm pretty sure you would be making a mistake to go beyond a week afer "use by" date"...


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## Addie (Feb 16, 2012)

Son #1's godfather was a meat cutter for one of our largest supermarkets. He told me once that when a piece of meat goes past the sell by date, they will often bring it back inside, turn the piece of meat over and rewrap it with a new sell by date. As the piece of meat sits in the styrofoam tray, the blood seeps to the bottom and the piece of meat turns grey looking on top. Because the blood has gone to the other side, it looks freshly cut. But the second sell by date is much shorter than the first one was. Often only for a day. Then it gets that reduced sticker on it. Since meats I buy go into the freezer when they arrive home, I have no problem buying reduced meats. I take them out of their packaging and rewrap them for the freezer. 

BTW, don't ever buy cut up stew meat in the styrofoam packing. The inflated price is labor cost. All it is, is the trimmings from all sorts of cuts. Buy a good chuck meat and cut it into cubes yourself. That way you know what you are getting and at a cheaper price.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 16, 2012)

I never buy stew meat. I do what you suggested.


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## Rocklobster (Feb 16, 2012)

It's ironic that they wrap it for safety reasons, when the wrapping promotes bacteria growth due to moisture within the package, while  it would last longer and have less danger of harmful bacteria growth if it was held  unwrapped.

I realize it is a handling issue., but a contradiction none the less...


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 16, 2012)

I've assumed that blotter underneath has some sort of antibiotic treatment. For that reason I always rewrap steaks before freezing.

I think increased packaging is likely in the future. For example the new to US chain Fresh & Easy packages not only all their meats but even all their produce that isn't sold as single units (like avocados). Weighing items at the cash register is a thing of the past.


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## Rocklobster (Feb 16, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> . Weighing items at the cash register is a thing of the past.


So is common sense, so it seems.


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## Bigjim68 (Feb 16, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> I never buy stew meat. I do what you suggested.


I don't buy ground or chopped meats for the same reasons


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 16, 2012)

Yeah. To make ground meat they take all the bits and pieces that may have bacteria or other contaminants on the surface and grind it up thus mixing all the bacteria and contaminants throughout the inside of the ground meat. You could perhaps wash off or wipe off a steak but there's no way to get any contaminants out of ground meat, and IMO ground meat is much more likely to go bad more quickly.


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## Rocklobster (Feb 16, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> Yeah. To make ground meat they take all the bits and pieces that may have bacteria or other contaminants on the surface and grind it up thus mixing all the bacteria and contaminants throughout the inside of the ground meat. You could perhaps wash off or wipe off a steak but there's no way to get any contaminants out of ground meat, and IMO ground meat is much more likely to go bad more quickly.


And, also, thanks to commercial, large scale production, your 1 lb of ground meat could have flesh from up to 100 cows in it.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 16, 2012)

Not my 1 lb. of ground meat! Last few years I usually buy steaks and run them through my food processor when I want ground beef. At least that steak is guaranteed to have come from a single cow. And whatever on the outside that gets spread through the inside is there for only a couple hours, not days and days like market ground meat.


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## buckytom (Feb 16, 2012)

in the spirit of this thread, i'd think it would be better if you aged the ground meat.


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