# FOIL! (not me)



## Pigs On The Wing BBQ (Jul 1, 2005)

I just don't get the whole foil thing. If I foiled every thing with the volume I do, I would go broke from buying foil. Plus all the extra work I would have to go threw. In the last 48 or so hours I have done over 275 pounds of butts and have another 100 pounds on now for vending tonight and threw the weekend. I lost track of how many I pulled so far.Guess I could count bones. I can't imagine how many feet of foil I would be going threw.I also have 300 pounds of ribs to do for Saturday night, Plus if I need more pulled pork.I guess if it works for you, Do it. Not for me vending and catering.


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## LarryWolfe (Jul 1, 2005)

:pop:  :pop:  :pop:  :pop:  :pop:


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## Pigs On The Wing BBQ (Jul 1, 2005)

Please excuse my ignorance Larry, I don't understand your popcorn (snack) reply. Could you please enlighten me to it's meaning, Or what you are trying to say? It would be appreciated. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to acronyms, And kiddy cartoon responses. Thank You.


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## Captain Morgan (Jul 1, 2005)

That means he's ready for the show, anticipating a big foil argument.
It's been covered a lot.  I think foil is used by folks trying to get the best q they can to eat.  I've never heard the argument applied to catering.  What do you care how others do it?

What works for you is great, what works for others is great!


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## Pigs On The Wing BBQ (Jul 1, 2005)

I always thought of foil as being a crutch for those who don't know how to control there pit and used as a kind of cheater short cut kind of deal. I'm not here to raze any hell. How do you get 'burnt ends' from a brisket when its been steaming or sweating, Stewing in foil? Same for ribs or butt, How do you keep it from turning to mush or pork jell? I sure would like to know. I don't know it all, And never will. Sure if I have 2 or 3 butts that are stubborn left on the pit after pulling 10 or so that went on at the same time I'm going to foil them to hurry them up. As I said, I'm not looking for a fight, I would like to know pros and cons of foil. It's certainly isn't practical to wrap every thing, Especially the volume I do. But in a back yard doing a few racks of ribs, Or a butt, Brisket? Fill me in. As I said, I'm not looking for a war, I'm looking for specific information on foiling. The why do you foil. Is it because, That's the way you were told? Is it because it's the way they do it in comp.cook off? Is it because you need to hurry up the meat? I can go on, But I hope you know what I mean. I'm curious to specific reasons why foil is so important.


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## Captain Morgan (Jul 1, 2005)

Pigs is right...foil can lead to mushiness and can take away a crispy crust.
I can't speak for others, but I foil my ribs after they've cooked about half way, but then I take the ribs out of the foil for the last hour or so to get a more desirable exterior.  To me it seems that the ribs are juicier that way, and the muscles/connectors break down easier/better.

  There's a ton of folks who swear by foiling briskets and letting them rest.  I'm gonna try that soon, cause my briskets suck.

I only foil butts after pulling em off the grill.


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## Pigs On The Wing BBQ (Jul 1, 2005)

Ok Raine, How about burnt ends? Are they posible with a foiled brisket? If so when do I foil? When do I unfoil. Be specific.


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## Pigs On The Wing BBQ (Jul 1, 2005)

Thanks for being honest Raine, (OT) Good luck with the new place. Hope old hic is installed by now.


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## Captain Morgan (Jul 1, 2005)

True!  I don't know how to cook a brisket cause I've never had the real deal!


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## Nick Prochilo (Jul 1, 2005)

Well some of us who don't have all the experinece that others have foil their briskets. I'm not doing 10 at a time, rather 1 at a time. I don't feel like cooking for 16 hours and have a tough piece of meat to show for my efforts. In time with a little more practice, I'll try another without foil. I did one once and it was dry and tough. I've done a few with foil and have had excellent results. I'm not trying to supplement my income with "Qing". I'm working 50 - 60 hours a week as it is now with my regular job. I get to "Q" once a week if I'm lucking and thats it. I'm sure some of you that cook multiple briskets at a time have had a dry one every so often. It's probably easy to mix a little bit of 1 dry brisket with a whole lot of great brisket and nobody would know any different. So if no foil works for you, I'm very happy for you, but when foiling works for me, my whole family is happy for me! Now Larry, pass the popcorn!


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## LarryWolfe (Jul 1, 2005)

Pigs,
      Cappy explained my popcorn post very well, it wasn't anything against you.  To foil or not to foil is a long going debate and I was looking forward to watching everyones input. 

Here's mine.  I never used to use foil and didn't believe in it and was very anti-foil actually.  I got tired of making good BBQ one day, and then sub-par BBQ the next day, and then good BBQ again the following day.  I did everything the same exact way everytime, but would have very inconsistent results.  Then a very well known "BBQ Guru" explained to me, that alot of folks, ESPECIALLY in competitions will foil for the main purpose of making consistent BBQ everytime you put a piece of meat on the pit.  Does it make better BBQ?  I wouldn't necessarily say better, but you make a good quality finished product EVERYTIME.  Does foiling make mushy BBQ?  It can if you leave it foiled long enough to actually boil in it's own juices, but if done right it will not.  The only BBQ I don't foil is pork shoulder and chicken.  But I foil ribs, briskets and chuck rolls everytime I cook them and will continue to do so even if I cook 100 pieces of meat a day.  To me it's worth the cost of the aluminum foil, to be assured my BBQ will taste exactly the way it did the last time I cooked it.  Sounds like you cook alot more meat than I do.  But If you are able to cook a superior product you are 100% happy with, without foiling everytime you cook, more power to you.  I sure can't and wouldn't let my integrity rest on it.  When I make BBQ or anything for that matter, I want it to taste great and taste great everytime I make it.  Foiling and the advice from people that have been BBQ'ing since before I was born have helped me more than anything else.  

So the bottomline is there's no right or wrong way, as long as you can make good consistent Q everytime you make it. Whether it's foiled or not.


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## jminion1 (Jul 1, 2005)

Think of foil as a tool, used correctly can do a number of things for you, used wrong you end up with sub-par Q.

If your vending and need to increase production foil can do that for you by cutting cooking times.

I don't foil butt unless I'm competing and I'm running out of time.
I don't like cooking brisket in foil because of it's effect on texture but I do foil and allow the brisket set in dry cooler and like the effect very much.

Ribs can be helped with texture cooked in foil for a short time.

If you are cooking on a log burner and burn nothing but logs, butt and brisket can use time out of the smoke to improve flavor (not over smoked).

There is no one right answer and it depends on what you are doing, cooking for a vending in mass quanities is totally different that cooking for your family or competition. I'm with you if I'm cooking 100s pounds of butt I'm not foiling normally.

Burnt ends can be produce by placing those chunks back on the cooker and continue cooking them after they come out of the foil.

Jim


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## Nick Prochilo (Jul 1, 2005)

Larry Wolfe said:
			
		

> Pigs,
> Cappy explained my popcorn post very well, it wasn't anything against you.  To foil or not to foil is a long going debate and I was looking forward to watching everyones input.
> 
> Here's mine.  I never used to use foil and didn't believe in it and was very anti-foil actually.  I got tired of making good BBQ one day, and then sub-par BBQ the next day, and then good BBQ again the following day.  I did everything the same exact way everytime, but would have very inconsistent results.  Then a very well known "BBQ Guru" explained to me, that alot of folks, ESPECIALLY in competitions will foil for the main purpose of making consistent BBQ everytime you put a piece of meat on the pit.  Does it make better BBQ?  I wouldn't necessarily say better, but you make a good quality finished product EVERYTIME.  Does foiling make mushy BBQ?  It can if you leave it foiled long enough to actually boil in it's own juices, but if done right it will not.  The only BBQ I don't foil is pork shoulder and chicken.  But I foil ribs, briskets and chuck rolls everytime I cook them and will continue to do so even if I cook 100 pieces of meat a day.  To me it's worth the cost of the aluminum foil, to be assured my BBQ will taste exactly the way it did the last time I cooked it.  Sounds like you cook alot more meat than I do.  But If you are able to cook a superior product you are 100% happy with, without foiling everytime you cook, more power to you.  I sure can't and wouldn't let my integrity rest on it.  When I make BBQ or anything for that matter, I want it to taste great and taste great everytime I make it.  Foiling and the advice from people that have been BBQ'ing since before I was born have helped me more than anything else.
> ...




Man, I love this guy!


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## Captain Morgan (Jul 1, 2005)

well why don't you marry him?


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## Nick Prochilo (Jul 1, 2005)

[-X  [-(  [-X


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## Pigs On The Wing BBQ (Jul 2, 2005)

Thanks, Larry & Jim for the information. I'm not antifoil. I have used it as a "tool" to speed things up in the past. I'm also rigid on putting out a consentient product.Guess it comes down to personal choice and what your comfortable with.I have 300 lbs of ribs to do tonight so I guess I'll experiment with some and see. I like the meat to come off the bones clean, But with a little resintance. Jell-O ribs I just don't care for. Thanks to all for your input!


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## Jack W. (Jul 2, 2005)

I fought the foil temptation for many years.  Leaning on the pure school of thought.  I also use it as a tool.  If your shooting for a time and the meat is not cooperating, you do what you gotta do.  I don't foil butts or shoulders as a rule, I don't see the need very often. I foil brisket when I rest it.  I always add some sort of liquid to beef for resting.  The cooling process will draw moisture back into the cow pie.  I don't personnaly like to foil ribs. I prefer the bark natural.  However, in the last 10 years I've only met 2 judges that agree with me.  I'm not in that game for my personal likes.  Most judges don't really care what I like for tenderness and texture.  More people are concerned with the taste issue.  I leave taste up to the chefs.  I like to concern myself with appearance, texture and tenderness.  Flavor profiles change with the times.  Texture, tenderness and appearance are there for the long haul.


Good Q!

Jack


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## LarryWolfe (Jul 2, 2005)

Pigs On The Wing BBQ said:
			
		

> Thanks, Larry & Jim for the information. I'm not antifoil. I have used it as a "tool" to speed things up in the past. I'm also rigid on putting out a consentient product.Guess it comes down to personal choice and what your comfortable with.I have 300 lbs of ribs to do tonight so *I guess I'll experiment with some and see*. I like the meat to come off the bones clean, But with a little resintance. Jell-O ribs I just don't care for. Thanks to all for your input!



Pigs, I meant to mention that to you in my previous post.  Try it, just not for too long.  Who knows we may convert you?? Good luck on the cook tonight, have fun and make lots of money!!  If the foiled ribs happened to turn out better I'd like a referral fee!   :boing:


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## Jack W. (Jul 2, 2005)

Pigs On The Wing BBQ said:
			
		

> Thanks, Larry & Jim for the information. I'm not antifoil. I have used it as a "tool" to speed things up in the past. I'm also rigid on putting out a consentient product.Guess it comes down to personal choice and what your comfortable with.I have 300 lbs of ribs to do tonight so I guess I'll experiment with some and see. I like the meat to come off the bones clean, But with a little resintance. Jell-O ribs I just don't care for. Thanks to all for your input!



For the heat and re-heat process or for holding for any period of time, foil sucks.  It turns the rib meat to a mealy geletin kind of feel.  The meat will taste steamed and generally lack flavor.  Upon reheat the ribs may take on a darker gray look.  It's ok for the untrained eye and taste bud but if you want the good stuff, it's probably a negative.  Glaze will cover up the look and mask the true taste.  If your using the product right off the pit and not holding for more than an hour or two,  into the foil until the meat pulls back from the ends a little, then back out to dry in the pit.  The steam will break away most of the connective tissue that holds the meat to the bone.  They will slide right out.  Good or not, thats the way people expect them.  

Good Q!

Jack


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## jminion1 (Jul 2, 2005)

Jack
Faced with the situation you describe I will not take the ribs to done, that way I don't get the geletin texture holding in foil. On the reheat they finish tenderizing without becoming mushy and I set the glaze.
Jim


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## Jack W. (Jul 2, 2005)

jminion said:
			
		

> Jack
> Faced with the situation you describe I will not take the ribs to done, that way I don't get the geletin texture holding in foil. On the reheat they finish tenderizing without becoming mushy and I set the glaze.
> Jim



Before or after foil?  

Do you find that you still get the gray color?

Inquiring minds and all   

Jack


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## jminion1 (Jul 2, 2005)

Jack I won't cook in foil and cool as fast as I can, warp in foil till reheat.
Serving ribs straight off the pit is always the best way to go but using foil under these sircumstances can effect color but a small amount of sauce takes care of it with out losing texture or flavor.
Jim


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## Captain Morgan (Jul 3, 2005)

I've never noticed grayness.  Think I'll do a slab with no foil just for comparison sake.


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## Pigs On The Wing BBQ (Jul 3, 2005)

Here is what I found out. I did 6 racks foiled for 2 hours. I then cut a few racks foiled and a few unfoiled and set 1 bone pieces in pans marked A & B Then asked people to try them. Most "older" people liked the foiled ribs over the unfoiled. But then almost all the younger crowd liked the unfoiled. So who knows. There is a big difference in texture. The foil ribs were falling off the bone. Is that a good thing? Guess it all depends on your preference. Maybe I should put in for a government grant to do more study on the subject.  :grin:


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## Captain Morgan (Jul 3, 2005)

Great report Pigs.....I don't believe that ribs should be falling off the bone, so I don't foil em that long.  Even when doing spares with the 
3 hours in the smoke, 2 hours in the foil, one final hour in the smoke,
I usually go about 1 and a half in the foil.


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## Pigs On The Wing BBQ (Jul 3, 2005)

I'll give a more in-depth report later. I did quite a few different things and times with foil. Last day of vending today.


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## Greg Rempe (Jul 3, 2005)

Pigs, I heard a stat somehwere that 90% of the general public who consume ribs prefer "falling off the bone" ribs like they do at Damons.  I call it mushy meat ribs because, to me, that is what they tatse like!

Damons or the other big rib chains would never win a comp but people still think their ribs are good...the worst case scenario is having a Damons lover come to your house and tell you that your ribs are bad! #-o   That never gets old for me!! :!:


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## Jack W. (Jul 3, 2005)

jminion said:
			
		

> Jack I won't cook in foil and cool as fast as I can, warp in foil till reheat.
> Serving ribs straight off the pit is always the best way to go but using foil under these sircumstances can effect color but a small amount of sauce takes care of it with out losing texture or flavor.
> Jim



I agree.  The process you are using is sound.  On a 3-2-1 type of time table you can do the 3, cool them, wrap in foil and continue with your cook at another time.   The second time period will be slightly different since you are heating from a cool point rather than a continuing to cook point.  IMHO the cooling and reheating is hard on the cell structure and is what causes the "mush" unless you are carefull with your heat.  You kind of have to coax them along.  If you hit them too hard they go from 1st and 1/2 rate to 3rd in a coal snap.  I would like to try bringing the ribs to room temp then continuing but I ain't got the guts to tempt the food baddies.  Just my .02

Thanks for the good advice.

Good Q!

Jack


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## Jack W. (Jul 3, 2005)

Captain Morgan said:
			
		

> I've never noticed grayness.  Think I'll do a slab with no foil just for comparison sake.



The gray will show up if you cool the ribs then reheat them.  Right off the pit you probably won't notice a difference.

Good Q!

Jack


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