# The Homeless



## *amy* (May 29, 2008)

I had an appointment today & decided to wait for my ride outside, since it was such a beautiful day. I noticed two men (about middle aged, clean clothing etc), walking down the street (in the gutter) with shopping carts, piled with overstuffed Hefty bags & whatnot. Most, if not all, the bldgs on my block are security bldgs. (You need to be buzzed in to enter.) Thought I noticed one of the men coming out of a bldg to the shopping cart. I'm a little embarassed to admit, one of my first thoughts was, wonder what they're doing in this neighborhood. (It's a quiet street, & you only see people when they are walking their dogs.) I usually see Homeless people in run down areas or Downtown, but never here.

My next thought was, what, if anything, should/could I have said or done? Should I offer him a few bucks, ask if he wanted to make a few $ & offer him some handyman work - which I do need. A single friend of mine (an older gal), would go to a nearby park or the front of Home Depot, where men who are out of work, line up - to make some money. She would take them home, put them to work, feed them & pay them. I don't know that I feel as brave/comfortable. Guess he noticed me looking over at him, as he said "Good morning young lady." I nodded & said good morning back. While I was still ruminating about what to do/say, he disappeared around the corner to join his friend, who was calling out to him. I started to feel a lump in my throat, & have thought about it off & on today.

I know the economy is bad - foreclosures, grocery & gas prices going up, etc. Yesterday on the News, heard Ford laid off many employees. I feel that not all Homeless people are lazy, mentally ill, or suffering from substance abuse. I can see where one can be a productive member of society one day, & get laid off or ill the next day, & quickly lose everything.

What, if anything, would you have said or done? What is your honest reaction when you see a Homeless person? Do you look away & go about your biz, offer to help, etc. With the way the economy has taken a downward spiral, I have to wonder if a larger Homeless population is going to emerge.

ETA:  For whatever it's worth (& it isn't worth much), I received my economic stimulus check.  It was half the amont I expected for single homeowner no dependents.  Not to look a Gift Horse in the mouth, but the amount won't even make a dent in my property taxes.  No political statements here, but think the monies to "stimulate" the economy, could have been put to better use.


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## David Cottrell (May 30, 2008)

Amy, first let me thank you for this open sharing of your thoughts and questions. Wow, did you ever call it - the confusion and doubt. Would I take a total stranger in, from off the street, to do some handi work or for a meal or even to hand them a twenty if I had it. Have I any answers? - no, but you have made me realize that I had better come to grips and have some answers ready. 

About this "stimulus" money - it's all _ _ , just votes bought with more debt for our children and grandchildren to try to pay off. I'm afraid the gang in Washington has us figured out - we have swallowed so much from them we will buy anything they do or say.

You know, it's said that if we are prepared to let the government take care of us we had better be prepared to be disappointed. Which means also, those guys collecting rags or cans or what ever - we better be prepared to help rather than expect government to do it all.


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## Alix (May 30, 2008)

Amy, I never offer money, but I will offer to buy them a meal or something. One day I was approached and had a grocery bag in my hand. I offered it to the guy and he said no. Hmmm...wonder how hungry he really was? In any case, I wouldn't be brave enough to have a stranger come into my home. I generally just offer food and go from there. 

PS, lets be careful with the political stuff guys. I think this is a great thread and I don't want it to get lost in a political debate.


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## David Cottrell (May 30, 2008)

Thanks Alix, I got the message!


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## *amy* (May 30, 2008)

Thanks for your input, David & Alix. My close friend that I mentioned (now departed), had a very big heart. She was more courageous than I, and as mentioned, brought people into her home & put them to work. I'm sure it helped them to care for their families as well. She told me her husband used to say, "Are you opening a soup kitchen?!" She brought home a younger fellow she met in the Park. Gave him a roof over his head, & he was able to eventually buy a car & train for a job with the airlines. He would have given her the shirt off his back, had she needed it. There were times when she was ill (her kids grown & gone), & he took care of her. So part of me wishes I had the courage she had. Reminds me of the movie Pay It Foward.


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## Alix (May 30, 2008)

Amy, you were privileged to know someone like that. I think that kind of person has a very special blessing. I'm afraid I'm too cynical to be like that.


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## MexicoKaren (May 30, 2008)

One of the nicest things my sweet daughter ever did: a  few years ago (she is 39), she was shopping late at night in the dead of winter at a well-known local super-store (Fred Meyer, sort of like Walmart) and there was an elderly homeless man in the entryway trying to keep warm. The store manager was trying to get him out of there. DD walked up to him and said "How dare you talk to my grandpa that way! She took the guy into the store with her, bought him some fried chicken and potatoes, a coat and a blanket. Then they went their separate ways. I'm sure he never forgot her.


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## redkitty (May 30, 2008)

Karen, what a wonderful thing your daughter did.  The world does not have enough kindness.


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## Adillo303 (May 30, 2008)

I was in Chicago on a cold winter day, I was going in McD's for a breakfast (I know, I know), outside there was a young woman sitting on the sidewalk with her young child begging money. T went in and got one or two of everything I could carry and went out and gave it to her. She had a tear in her eye and mouthed a very quiet thank you.

I went back in to get my breakfast and was only a minute or so. When I came out, she was gone. I cannot tell you how good it made me feel.

I work in NYC and my job takes me all over the city. I see all maner of homeless. The obvious druggoes, I do not do much for othe others, I do what I can. On 31st street between 7th & 6th St Francis feeds the homeless at 6:00 AM. The length of the line is unbelievable. (Fellow NYC'ers I think that is the church, plese correct me if I am wrong). 

I saw a program on HBO several years ago, ther are families in America that dress well, are both employed and have kids in school, that do not have homes, it is very sad.


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## Loprraine (May 30, 2008)

> "How dare you talk to my grandpa that way!


 
Years ago I was walking in downtown Winnipeg, and we passed a really, really down and out person (either on drugs or alcohol) begging for money.  The person with me said "Someone, somewhere, has baby pictures of him".  That phrase has always stuck with me.


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## buckytom (May 30, 2008)

whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, you do unto me.



last sunday, as my wife and son and i walked through the city, we passed a homeless guy, laying in a pool of his bowels. i ignored him and quickened my step to be able to get in between and shield them from this harsh reality.

instead, my son stopped, smiled and waved to the guy and happily said "hiiii" , just like he does to everyone else that he sees.

it's made me re-examine myself a dozen times this past week. now, nyc has many programs to help every kind of homeless people that there are, and i pay a ton of taxes to help with these causes. so i don't really feel guilty that i don't give them money, or stop to give them food. there's lots of places for them to go if they don't or can't take care of their own lives.

but i do feel badly that i'd stopped looking at them as good people fallen on hard times. my boy reminded me of that.


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## kitchenelf (May 30, 2008)

amy, I understand your dilemma.  When it comes to inviting someone into your home to do some handy work use that gut instinct and don't make quick decisions.  I know you know all this but I got a little chill running up my spine doing a dance at the nape of my neck.  So, I had to voice it.

I work in our tiny downtown area.  I see the same people every day and you can tell which are on the streets due to mental issues, hard times, etc., etc.  There was only one that creeped me out last year.  He was constantly looking at women passing by (through his blacked out sunglasses) and he was the only one that I can say I was even close to being rude to i.e., he'd speak to me but I wouldn't speak to him.  Finally, I saw him harassing a girl and I called the police.  Turns out he was registered sex offender.  I was actually glad because it told me that that gut feeling is worth something.  I belong to an organization that is just a couple blocks off downtown and we feed the homeless on certain Sundays.  I make a point to find out names and then when I see them downtown I call them by name.  All they really want is to be treated like a human.  I have also found out you have to be really careful and keep your distance while doing this.  

bucky - my son did something similar one time.  He went up to this man that smelled like he had been in his clothes for a year and hugged him around his knees.  They almost couldn't break eye contact and all they did was just smile at each other.


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## Corey123 (May 30, 2008)

I never offer these people any money because I feel like this; That since they are out there all day begging for money, then why in the world can't they be looking for a job?!

Most of them just don't want to go get help. They just would rather stay out in the streets and be bums where garbage food is for free and so are empty soda bottles and cans!

As for inviting them into my home, well, who knows if that when they leave, will something walk out the door with them when they do? Or if they'll be back looking for a place to stay the night? Or if a short visit turns into a long unwanted one?!


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## Alix (May 30, 2008)

Things must be different in the US than they are in Canada Corey. Here the homeless are most often mentally unstable to the point of not being able to hold a job, or hopelessly addicted to something. 

Compassion is not so very hard is it? They may not be able to hold a job, but certainly we can offer them some food and a smile.


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## GB (May 30, 2008)

Corey have you ever tried to get a job when you are homeless? Think about it. If you are homeless then you have no place to wash up or shower. You have no place to clean your cloths. How many employers do you think would want to hire someone in dirty worn out rags who has not showered in who knows how long?

How do you know that most of them do not want to get help? That is a very broad statement. Have you talked to them to know this? 

Why would you just assume that these people would steal from you because they are homeless. Have you ever heard about judging a book by its cover?

I would not invite them into my home in most cases, but just because they are strangers, not because they are homeless.


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## pdswife (May 30, 2008)

I give money ( small amounts) to the very old homeless.  I've given food to the guys that stand on the street corner, won't give them money though.

When I worked a Sears a million years ago...there was a couple, the man on one corner and the lady on the other.  Every day they'd stand there and beg for money.  5 o'clock came and ever night they'd get in their very fancy sports car and drive off.  If they needed money so badly they could have sold that.


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## kitchenelf (May 30, 2008)

I'd like to see this thread get back on the track amy intended it to be on.  I, myself, had delete what I wrote in response to a post 

amy - I think you brought up a very good point and I think your intention was more how we, as individuals, handle these types of situations and what we feel our obligation is, or not is.

I don't think amy's intention here was for us to judge anyone.


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## buckytom (May 30, 2008)

or not is?



amy asked what would we have done in a similar situation. give something to them; offer work; just ignore them, oe even secretly despise their existence in your plane of reality.

i'm not sure what responses were off the track?


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## kitchenelf (May 30, 2008)

You probably have a point bucky - I think there has been some stuff going on behind the scenes too that has my cackles up.  I guess to read a blanket statement about such a large, diverse group of people rubbed me the wrong way.


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## Constance (May 30, 2008)

Even though I live in a small town, there is an exit from a very busy interstate here, and we used to have a lot of vagrants who sat out by the shopping center with signs wanting to work for food, but that is no longer allowed. The police run off the panhandlers, and take the people in genuine need to the food pantry, which also furnishes things like diapers, infant formula, and even motel rooms for people who've had car trouble on the road and need help.

I wouldn't recommend bringing any of these people home with you to work, eat or whatever. You could be robbed or worse...you just never know.


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## TATTRAT (May 30, 2008)

well, here is what I do...

If someone asks me for money, I ask why, if they say they are hungry, I will seriously stop what I am doing and take them to some place, normally a fast food place, and get them something. If they decline that, I say well, you should have been honest with me, if you wanted a beer, you should have said so...Everyone has a story, some need a kick in the pants, others are under the spell of an addiction, some are perfectly content being on the streets, others are truly in a tough spot and have lost everything.

I know this first hand, I was homeless. I was a kid on the streets for almost 2 years and have seen every side of being homeless. I have talked with people that don't consider them selves homeless, but "outdoors men". I have heard all the stories first hand, and there are some people that really got the bad end of the stick. For me, it was a moment of clarity where I realized, I could not live like this anymore, and I did everything in my power to change. Some people do not have that ability, or feel they are so down and out, that being on the streets is the only option.

I try to be fair and courteous to my fellow men/women. We are all people, whether or not you have a residence, and deserve the same amount of respect you would show to a co-worker or any other passer by on the street. I am not saying to befriend them, but just be friendly. Any adult knows if it is a crazy person, and to just pass on by, but you would be surprised to hear of how they became in the state they are, and it WILL make you more humble and grateful for what you do have.


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## MexicoKaren (May 30, 2008)

It is clear to me that our group is very diverse, and there are obviously some members with whom I do not agree politically. In a different setting, I might feel compelled to argue over these issues, but this is not the place. We are all here because of our love for cooking, and so, rather than get disturbed over these differences, I try to focus on what we have in common and what we can learn from one another. Two things I have learned as I have aged: (1) not everyone is going to agree with me, and (2) that does not mean that they are not capable of kindness and generosity. Comes as a surprise, I know!


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## Constance (May 30, 2008)

My grandson has been homeless, but it was his own doing. After he alienated all his family members by stealing, lying and violence, he went through a number of girlfriends, and then his guy friends, until finally nobody wanted him in their home. He lived in a tent out in the woods for a while, and thought it was pretty cool at first, but it got old pretty fast.
Now he seems to have changed his ways, and is holding down a job flipping burgers, but he's living in a motel because he's lied so much in the past that no one trusts him.
Our son in Florida is willing to give him a chance though, and is coming up here this month to visit, and will take the boy back with him, help him find a job, and give him a place to stay until he gets on his feet. 

I only hope he's truly learned his lesson, and that he won't mess up this time.


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## Corey123 (May 30, 2008)

GB said:


> Corey have you ever tried to get a job when you are homeless? Think about it. If you are homeless then you have no place to wash up or shower. You have no place to clean your cloths. How many employers do you think would want to hire someone in dirty worn out rags who has not showered in who knows how long?
> 
> How do you know that most of them do not want to get help? That is a very broad statement. Have you talked to them to know this?
> 
> ...


 



Sorry that I sounded so harsh. But I DO know some things about the homeless.


I was never homeless, but however, I DID go out every day last year and the year before looking for a job. No one in the city would hire me.

They more than likely thought that I was probablytoo old, but they used some bogus excuse like I'm not qualified when my resume proves that I AM qualified for the line of work that I was seeking, which is or was cooking.

In late '06, I was stricken with CHF and couldn't work after several months. I had to apply for disability in order to make ends meet. I DO have a volunary job tutoring children.

But I've worked for over 40 years of my life and busted my butt to make a living. If I wasn't disabled, sure, I'd work longer. But this is through no fault of my own.

And yes, to answer your question, I HAVE tried to talk to some of them. And they flat out refused to try to go get help. I became friends with some of them and tried to help them.

The only other thing that I'll say is that they can't be helped if they don't want the help.


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## Saphellae (May 30, 2008)

I suppose that in different geographical areas, the stories differ.  

Here in downtown montreal, I think there are more of the worst sort than of the good sort who just need an extra boost.

There are always people outside of the supermarkets, on corners, in front of drug stores.  Some of them use their children to beg for money, some of them have a dog beside them.  And it seems that some of them rotate corners. They seem to have a system.  I came to montreal about 5 years ago with my mom and I saw a woman with two dogs.  The SAME woman 5 years ago now sits in front of a pharmaprix downtown. Sometimes its her, sometimes a younger guy, sometimes someone completely different.  It's a gimick, using the dogs and having a bag of dog food beside her on the blanket.

I'm sure that some of them are not there by choice, but it seems that alot of them are (the ones that I see, anyways).  You can tell that they are drunk (smell) or high (behavior).

There is a guy that sits down here at the convenience store on the tables and calls out to everyone.... exactly...:

"Cigarette....?  Cigarette....?  Cigarette.... ?  Change...?  Change...? Change...?  **** You... **** You... **** you...."

He either has some sort of disability or is very rude!


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## buckytom (May 30, 2008)

how dare he ***** smoke near pets and children! or worse, speak for his two invisible friends!

sheesh!


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## Saphellae (May 30, 2008)

Lol!!!!!!!


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## suzyQ3 (May 30, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> Sorry that I sounded so harsh. But I DO know some things about the homeless.
> 
> 
> I was never homeless, but however, I DID go out every day last year and the year before looking for a job. No one in the city would hire me.
> ...



You say that you'd work longer if you were not disabled and that this is no fault of your own. But remember that someone else who doesn't know your story might judge you as harshly as you seem to judge the homeless. 

I will never believe that any significant number of human beings *willingly choose *for any significant length of time to live in an environment normally associated with our homeless population. Never.


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## Saphellae (May 30, 2008)

THere are some nicer ones though, That sit there day in and day out saying "God Bless You" "Have a great day" among other niceties.  There is one dear man that sits on the steps of a church downtown who does this... though he has his hat out lol


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## Saphellae (May 30, 2008)

Suzy, fact of the matter is that there ARE people who are lazy enough to live that life and get free stuff.  Sure it may be hard for them say, come winter (in a colder climate), but there are people who choose that life.  It could be just the simple fact that they are criminals, or they have lied to so many people that nobody trusts them anymore and they continue to.  There are many reasons why people choose that life, either through their actions or through a specific choice of their own.

I agree though that alot of them are just unable to work due to a disability or an illness, and that it was their last resort. I feel for those people, but it is SO hard to tell them apart from the others who lie.


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## MexicoKaren (May 30, 2008)

If you guys get tired of hearing about Mexico, just let me know, but I wanted to add that in the 2+ years we have been here, I can count the number of homeless people I've seen on one hand. Occasionally, someone will come to our gate and ask for money for bus fare into Puerto Vallarta (5 pesos/50 cents), and once we had a woman come to our gate and ask for money for medicine for her baby (50 pesos/5 dollars). Once in awhile, you see someone in Vallarta holding out a cup for donations, but they almost always give something in exchange (chiclets, candy, etc.) Seems that people are taken care of by their families here, at least in our area.


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## quicksilver (May 30, 2008)

b.t.~~~~! There you go again. Held it in pretty long today!


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## Corey123 (May 30, 2008)

suzyQ3 said:


> You say that you'd work longer if you were not disabled and that this is no fault of your own. But remember that someone else who doesn't know your story might judge you as harshly as you seem to judge the homeless.
> 
> I will never believe that any significant number of human beings *willingly choose *for any significant length of time to live in an environment normally associated with our homeless population. Never.


 


I expect to be judged as a hardball or a cold and cruel heel.

But it's the truth. I speak from experience when I say that for a number of years, I've helped homeless people, and all that it got me was nowhere, and I ended up paying for it big time!

Because when some of them lived with me, they were on recreational drugs, stole from me, lied and freeloded off me with no effort to try to pull their own weight.

As Constance pointed out, and she was right, when someone does that, it's their own doing, and she's also right, they lie, cheat and steal, money is missing, electronic equipment, microwaves and other valuables suddenly end up missing, yet no one knows who took the stuff.

People who do that are not your friends.


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## David Cottrell (May 30, 2008)

Just thinking about the experiences Corey123 has shared. Just so you know, I tried hard one time to help a person out who seemed if they just could catch a break maybe the corner would be turned. Well it was for me - learned alot in the doing, like how was it that checks of a sudden were bouncing all over? The secret for stealing checks is to take them from the back of the check book. That way the victim won't suspect a thing until the notices start coming from the merchants and from the bank, wanting reimbursement and of course those big fees. It gives you some running room!


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## buckytom (May 30, 2008)

corey, it's pretty normal to become hardened to a situation once you've been burned by it. so no worries.

however, as amy pointed out, the problem of homelessness is getting worse with the bad economy. there'll be a lot more decent people who will expand the ranks of the homeless, and therefore will need other good people to help out. 
be grateful for having the grace of god not to be in their situaton, and not continue to be bitter for your material losses.

sorry, i'll stop preaching now.


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## Corey123 (May 30, 2008)

buckytom said:


> corey, it's pretty normal to become hardened to a situation once you've been burned by it. so no worries.
> 
> however, as amy pointed out, the problem of homelessness is getting worse with the bad economy. there'll be a lot more decent people who will expand the ranks of the homeless, and therefore will need other good people to help out.
> be grateful for having the grace of god not to be in their situaton, and not continue to be bitter for your material losses.
> ...


 


Not a problem.

But I'm not bitter - just careful now.

Yes, you're right, those things ARE material and can be replaced. But if I told you that I've been burned big time with 6 big rip-offs in as little as 5 years,
you'd probably think that I'm kidding, but I'm not.

It takes years to replace or get that stuff back, buying it that is, but it only takes two seconds to lose it. And since I'm on a fixed income, I can't just go right out and replace that stuff in a heartbeat.

Someone I know who cleaned me out before, I ran into last year. He gave me his number, but I didn't even bother calling him. I tore it up and threw it away. He more than likely is still on crack. 

Chances are, that he might have wanted to try to get back in good graces with me, and before you know it, he would have been trying to inch his way back into my life and place and start the same thing all over again!! Not a happening thing.


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## suzyQ3 (May 30, 2008)

Sorry, but most of the faults some of you are describing are hardly peculiar to the homeless. If you knew, say, a student who stole from his roommates, cheated on his gf, and passed off others' work as his own, would you make blanket statements about all students?

I'm not suggesting inviting strangers in for a sleepover or any direct action at all; I'm just suggesting less generalizing/stererotyping and a little more compassion for those who may not be as fortunate as you are...at this moment.


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## GB (May 30, 2008)

suzyQ3 said:


> Sorry, but most of the faults some of you are describing are hardly peculiar to the homeless. If you knew, say, a student who stole from his roommates, cheated on his gf, and passed off others' work as his own, would you make blanket statements about all students?
> 
> I'm not suggesting inviting strangers in for a sleepover or any direct action at all; I'm just suggesting less generalizing/stererotyping and a little more compassion for those who may not be as fortunate as you are...at this moment.


Perfectly said!


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## Fisher's Mom (May 30, 2008)

Loprraine said:


> Years ago I was walking in downtown Winnipeg, and we passed a really, really down and out person (either on drugs or alcohol) begging for money.  The person with me said "Someone, somewhere, has baby pictures of him".  That phrase has always stuck with me.


I'm sitting here with a big wad of Kleenex in my hand. I needed them after reading this. That phrase sums up perfectly how I hope to view _every homeless or unfortunate person_ I see from this day forward. Thank you for this gift, Loprraine.


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## Corey123 (May 30, 2008)

suzyQ3 said:


> Sorry, but most of the faults some of you are describing are hardly peculiar to the homeless. If you knew, say, a student who stole from his roommates, cheated on his gf, and passed off others' work as his own, would you make blanket statements about all students?
> 
> I'm not suggesting inviting strangers in for a sleepover or any direct action at all; I'm just suggesting less generalizing/stererotyping and a little more compassion for those who may not be as fortunate as you are...at this moment.


 



Which is why I show compassion for them at a distance. And hope and pray that they try to go get some help.

And I know that if you yourself have been burnt once, you'd take the necessary steps to avoid the same thing from happening again. Not to wish any bad luck on you at all.

But the bottom line is, that help IS availible out there for them, and it more than likely costs them nothing. Nothing but time work and patience.

Some will ask for money and they are usually standing next to a liquor store, so you know what they want the money for. And if they are drunk or they drink to get drunk, I figure that if I were to give them money, well, I'm hurting them even more because that is more alcohol in their system, stomach and liver. That's why I shy away from giving them money.

Some will ask for money to get somethinjg to eat, or they eat food from the trash can.

I know that in Boston during the torridly hot summer weather and during the most bitterly cold days of winter, the homeless shelters and the police will go around and try to pull the homeless off the streets so that they won't die from the blazing heat of the sun or the bitter cold.

I can only look at them and shake my head. I might suggest to them to try to get to a shelter, but it's still up to them to make the move. Otherwise I can't force them to do it.

Here's another one of my old sayings; You can lead a horse or a dog to water, but you can't make them drink it.

I really don't have anything against them. They are human beings as well. Actually, it's society and the system that is failing them. I've always said that in cases like this, the system is broken and it needs to be fixed.


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## suzyQ3 (May 30, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> Which is why I show compassion for them at a distance. And hope and pray that they try to go get some help.
> 
> And I know that if you yourself have been burnt once, you'd take the necessary steps to avoid the same thing from happening again. Not to wish any bad luck on you at all.
> 
> ...



Sounds a bit more compassionate than this:

_I never offer these people any money because I feel like this; That since they are out there all day begging for money, then why in the world can't they be looking for a job?!

Most of them just don't want to go get help. They just would rather stay out in the streets and be bums where garbage food is for free and so are empty soda bottles and cans!_


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## Corey123 (May 31, 2008)

Yeah, but they WILL refuse help. They won't let anyone help them, so there's nothing else that can be done at that point.


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## GB (May 31, 2008)

Corey you just don't get it. You are making blanket statements and generalizations that simply are not true. It might be true of the very small percentage that you have had contact with, but for you to say that about all of them the way you keep doing is just horrible and plain wrong.


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## Corey123 (May 31, 2008)

Sorry, but I think that you misunderstood me. This IS the small percentage that I've talked to.

I thought I explained to you that in a few posts back that I've made kind suggestions to them or SOME of the homeless that they should try to get into a shelter or get some help otherwise, which we all know is a start on the road to recovery if they do.

Did you hear me say ALL of them? Most likely not because I didn't. I said SOME of them. "They" or "them" does not necessarily mean all of them. Why would I say that when I know that some ARE in shelters getting help?

While there are some in shelters, there are still a lot of them to make the changeover to get help. For me to say ALL of them WOULD be wrong, but I never once said that about all of them.

I DO see quite a few of them in my neighborhood. Some will stop me and ask for some change. And sometimes I give some of it to them.


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## David Cottrell (May 31, 2008)

Ok all, being one who has trouble in communicating I can see that "what we have here is a failure to communicate!" Remember that line guys and gals? If so smile. What was the movie, staring Paul Newman?

Anyway, we are now trying to dance on the head of a pin and only angels can do that.

Amy, you are a special person with a special heart as are all (maybe excepting me) who responded to your original querstion. Suggestion - some give food in one way or the other and some live where food is needed. Makes me know in this little town of Marion Ohio I had better start sharing a few dollars at the food pantrys - even five a month would help. 

Besides that Amy, you have a flood of awesome recipes and I know that for a fact. How can we blend a bit of our own home cooking into the question of what to do for the homeless? Do you have a suggestion? Here I don't see them on the street - town is too small I guess so I will have to go a small monthly gift to a pantry, but apparently some could cook up a pot of something? and enjoy the cooking and the giving.

Any thoughts dear lady - don't mean to put you on the spot but I do respect your recipes and thoughts.


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## GB (May 31, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> Sorry, but I think that you misunderstood me. This IS the small percentage that I've talked to.
> 
> I thought I explained to you that in a few posts back that I've made kind suggestions to them or SOME of the homeless that they should try to get into a shelter or get some help otherwise, which we all know is a start on the road to recovery if they do.
> 
> ...



Corey, if you did not mean all then that is great. You should really be more careful of what you say though. You did NOT say "some" as you claim. What you said was 





			
				Corey123 said:
			
		

> Yeah, but *they* WILL refuse help. *They* won't let anyone help them, so there's nothing else that can be done at that point.



Saying _they_ like that implies ALL. It does not imply some. You might want to be aware of that for the future.


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## MexicoKaren (May 31, 2008)

David had a very good idea - I've been reading in the news that food banks are almost out of food because so many people are in need right now. Just give whatever you can to your local food bank.....


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## suzyQ3 (May 31, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> Sorry, but I think that you misunderstood me. This IS the small percentage that I've talked to.
> 
> I thought I explained to you that in a few posts back that I've made kind suggestions to them or SOME of the homeless that they should try to get into a shelter or get some help otherwise, which we all know is a start on the road to recovery if they do.
> 
> ...



Corey, one doesn't have to say the word "all" in every sentence in order to be mistakenly generalizing about a large and diverse group of people. 

Your words from your first post:

_ Most of them just don't want to go get help. They just would rather stay out in the streets and be bums where garbage food is for free and so are empty soda bottles and cans!

_That is undeniably a generalization. You have the right to your opinion, and others have the right to take strong exception to it.


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## jpmcgrew (May 31, 2008)

I just go by what my heart tells me if it's the same guy day after day and looks capable of working he gets nothing if it's someone that really looks like they need some help I give some money. I really prefer that those that are capable of working and have all their faculty's get nothing. If they don't want to help themselves why should I help them. By the way if it came down to it you can always get a job washing dishes and you will most likely get a meal everyday as well. Panhandling can be quite profitable for some people which is why they do what they do rather than work a minimum wage job.


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## suzyQ3 (May 31, 2008)

jpmcgrew said:


> I just go by what my heart tells me if it's the same guy day after day and looks capable of working he gets nothing if it's someone that really looks like they need some help I give some money. I really prefer that those that are capable of working and have all their faculty's get nothing. If they don't want to help themselves why should I help them. By the way if it came down to it you can always get a job washing dishes and you will most likely get a meal everyday as well. Panhandling can be quite profitable for some people which is why they do what they do rather than work a minimum wage job.



One minor point -- unfortunately, it is not always simple to determine a person's mental or physical health/abilities by merely looking at them as you pass by. Some problems are obvious; others not at all.


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## jpmcgrew (May 31, 2008)

suzyQ3 said:


> One minor point -- unfortunately, it is not always simple to determine a person's mental or physical health/abilities by merely looking at them as you pass by. Some problems are obvious; others not at all.


 I know, I know but I do the best that I can.


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## buckytom (May 31, 2008)

does it really matter how or why they've gotten there? 

pds's post of getting into a fancy car (replete with rumble seat and HooOOOgah type horn on the side ) is uncommon, for the vast majority of homeless.

amy's point, again, was foreward thinking, with recognition of the worsening world economy.

hey, everybody wanted $5 freakin' toys and clothes from walmart, who could obtain them from horriffic, human rights and environment abusing factories in china. so now we have to pay because the giant scale of supply and demand has been tipped.

but should we forget that we're all in this boat together?


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## Loprraine (May 31, 2008)

> of what to do for the homeless?


 
I'm not the "dear lady" yu were referring to, LOL, but here's what I do, rather than giving them money.

When the local food banks have their fundraisers, I don't just go through the cold room and give the stuff I don't want. I go out and buy what's on the list. I may not agree with what's on the list, but I buy it anyway.

If I see a great sale on something, pasta, rice, canned goods etc, I'll buy a bunch and drop it off at the Salvation Army.

Any usable clothing we don't want / need gets donated. There is a group here helping folks get back into the work force. They get all our work clothes / purses/ accessories.

At work, we support "Second Harvest". In the last 3 years, we have raised thousands of dollars for the various shelters they support.

I feel badly when I see homeless people, but I feel [Edited for language] good knowing I do something to help.


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## *amy* (May 31, 2008)

buckytom said:


> does it really matter how or why they've gotten there? ...
> 
> amy's point, again, was foreward thinking, with recognition of the worsening world economy...


 
Thanks for bringing it up again, Tom.  Perhaps it was the timing - receiving an economic stimulus check & seeing the homeless situation come so close to home.  (Not that I haven't been aware of the problem for some time.)

Thank you for the kind words, David.  I read thru the responses, & even though I may not agree with certain opinions, I do respect that we are able to discuss them in an adult fashion.  I don't have all the answers, of course.  But, wondering what will happen with the economy in the next year to five years.  Hopefully, things will turn around & start looking up again soon.  I have many thoughts reading thru the posts.  Perhaps when my eyes are more open, lol, I'll come back & share.  Do appreciate the input & replies.  You guys are the best.


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## David Cottrell (May 31, 2008)

Looks like we're back on track and off the head of the pin. Communicating is hard - just listen to the TV commentators who eventhough highly paid for talking many times don't know an adverb from an adjective and how to use pronouns at all. It's not easy but now that are on track there are some real good ideas coming out. If Amy will allow me to share a thank you with her I shall - thank you for your insights and inspiration.


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## RPMcMurphy (May 31, 2008)

I remember when I was a kid, and skateboarding, and I gave my last 50 cents to a guy I saw picking stuff out of the trash....he took it. 

Then he got in a NICE truck that said "scrap recycling" and drove off........


Just recently, I picked up a book called Scratch Beginnings by Adam Shepard....and it definitely changed my views on some things. It's a very quick and easy read. Check it out.


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## Corey123 (May 31, 2008)

suzyQ3 said:


> Corey, one doesn't have to say the word "all" in every sentence in order to be mistakenly generalizing about a large and diverse group of people.
> 
> Your words from your first post:
> 
> ...


 


Things often get misunderstood very easily. It's true that I said they, most of them or them, but by no means did I mean ALL. Nor was I intentionally generalizing.

People can assume things, but I never meant all of them.

Let's just end this because I see now, that it might be coming on as a heated debate. Seems some get offended by what I say at times and no offense was meant.

I merely spoke what was on my mind like everyone else did.


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## spryte (May 31, 2008)

Corey... I totally understand what you are saying.  When I walk to the grocery store, I get approached by no less than 3 probably closer to 5 people each day.  Most I walk by (on this particular path)... because you have a vibe... it's not a blanket vibe... specific to each person.  The lady that told me she needed money to feed her 3 year old because the live under the bridge.  I was putting my groceries in the trunk of my car... so pulled out a box of very kid friendly cereal, a bag of bagel and a BIG jar of peanut butter.  Her response, "Oh we don't that" and she walked away.  She's approached me many times, in different locations with different stories.  The more times this happens to you (and it happens often in the city) the less likely you are to continue to listen.  That doesn't mean you stop listening.  There's an amputee on the same corner every day on my ride home... when the traffic is right... I give him a bottle of water... he happily accepts it. I've given him blankets in the winter too.

I didn't read Corey's statements as blanket statements at all.


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## Rob Babcock (May 31, 2008)

Loprraine said:


> Years ago I was walking in downtown Winnipeg, and we passed a really, really down and out person (either on drugs or alcohol) begging for money.  The person with me said "Someone, somewhere, has baby pictures of him".  That phrase has always stuck with me.



A sobering thought.  I now that phrase will always stick with me, too.


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## suzyQ3 (May 31, 2008)

buckytom said:


> does it really matter how or why they've gotten there?
> 
> pds's post of getting into a fancy car (replete with rumble seat and HooOOOgah type horn on the side ) is uncommon, for the vast majority of homeless.
> 
> ...



_does it really matter how or why they've gotten there? _

It depends on what you choose to focus, apparently. Some will remember most those who scam the system; others remember the ones who have, for whatever reason, found themselves living sad and desperate lives. The same is true whenever the subject of welfare comes up. 

The comment about remembering that every street person was someone's baby once is just another way of reminding us that we shouldn't ever "forget that we're all in this boat together," if I may quote you.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (May 31, 2008)

In my town, we don't have homeless. The winters here can be downright brutal, and deadly. You prepare in advance, and make sure you have a few days worth of food, water, etc, and more if you have a place to store it. A bad winter storm will halt all incomming and outgoing traffic. That being siad, several years back, I was comming out of WalMart with my family and we saw a man with a sign that stated he would work for food. My oldest son insisted we help the man and I explained that with him, his brother and sisters, and my wife in the house, I was unwilling to give direct assitance other than maybe purchasing some food for the man. It was a safety issue.

My boy had a very heavy heart about this. I hadn't told him that I planned on contacting local help organizations to get the man some assistance. My son asked if we could contact any organizations to help the guy. I was very proud of him. I let him do the legwork and find what organizations were available. He contacted the Salvation Army, and the Police Dept. Both said they already knew of the man and would be sending help to him.

I always stop and help push people out of the ditch, or find help for them when their vehicles are stranded on the highway. I have been with others who refuse to lift a hand of help. We are all brothers and sisters on this planet, and need to help each other. Few of you have ever seen a picture of me, and yet, are freinds. What if it was me that was stranded on a lonely road, with a flat tire and no spare. How would you know to help me? How would I know to help you?

And remember, prayer can give you suprizing answers if you are willing to ask the questions.

I help as I can. Sadly, I don't help enough. 

The saddest homeless incident I ever saw was in Hong Cong. There was a man sitting under a few newspapers. He was so skinny and frail that you could clearly make out his bones for lack of muscle tone. He was obviously starving to death, and none of the population that walked by gave him a moments notice. It is not only people here that are insensitive, but all over the world. In many places, an individual life just isn't worth much.

I yearn for a kinder world, where we aren't afraid of each other to the point of holding back our resources to another who needs help. But that world is not the one I live in, and so, I must carefully weigh my desire to help against the safety of those I love. That to me, is the saddest truth.

Seeeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## *amy* (May 31, 2008)

GW, I can relate. It's a totally different climate in So Calif. It can get very cold at night & very hot during the day. We probably see more homeless here because it's warm most of the year. There was a time i recall seeing people living under bridges. As Constance mentioned, there may be laws in place here as well where you can't sleep on the beach, parks etc. I don't talk much about myself/personal life, but... from time to time I visit a center that has people from all walks of life - some are homeless & some are not. They try to help with food programs, housing etc. They have a kitchen as well. You can volunteer to work in the kitchen or do a chore. Everything is voluntary. I bag up a bunch of clothes & take them down there, as I know the people who need them, will receive them -directly. I know some of the faces & talk to some of the higher-functioning folks. They hold all kinds of meetings - everything from gambler's anonomous to smoker's anonymous. They will train you on the computer, if you're interested. I could go on & on about the programs they offer & people I've met & spoken to. Even the people that are homeless show up neat & clean on a regular basis. Noone has tried to take advantage of me or run a scam on the system, as far as I know. Wish there were more programs like it out there. If I could see one or two things that I think would make a difference, I would focus on affordable housing & the cost of gas stabilized. Just my two cents.


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## Corey123 (May 31, 2008)

spryte said:


> Corey... I totally understand what you are saying. When I walk to the grocery store, I get approached by no less than 3 probably closer to 5 people each day. Most I walk by (on this particular path)... because you have a vibe... it's not a blanket vibe... specific to each person. The lady that told me she needed money to feed her 3 year old because the live under the bridge. I was putting my groceries in the trunk of my car... so pulled out a box of very kid friendly cereal, a bag of bagel and a BIG jar of peanut butter. Her response, "Oh we don't that" and she walked away. She's approached me many times, in different locations with different stories. The more times this happens to you (and it happens often in the city) the less likely you are to continue to listen. That doesn't mean you stop listening. There's an amputee on the same corner every day on my ride home... when the traffic is right... I give him a bottle of water... he happily accepts it. I've given him blankets in the winter too.
> 
> I didn't read Corey's statements as blanket statements at all.


 


Thank you so much. I help the homeless when I can, but at times, I'm broke myself. 

I DO have a heart for them, and even though it might not be their fault that they are in the situation that they're in, again, it's the system that has failed them.

And if the state or whatever organization that is responsible and won't even lift a finger to help, then what else is left? Individuals can only do so much.


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## David Cottrell (May 31, 2008)

I have a question. Some of you may recall that I keep a website going - Books by Volunteers who serve Ukraine Orphans It's a twenty dollar bill a month to pay the host server so that's not an issue. What is an issue that I wonder about sometimes is just this:

Like many I am now on that fixed  social security income, having made some errors in judgement along the way. I can give a few bucks here and there to an orphanage or a specific cause there when I am acquainted with the people. Right now I have for the first time engaged in a specific cause - with a wonderful lady who lives in California and is trying to save an eighteen year disabled girl who has just graduated from her orphanage school. She's been in an orphanage all her life - abandoned at birth by her parents. 

If we can't get it done the young lady is facing a horrible future in Ukraine. Now, when I send some money for the girl I wonder, should I be doing this? There are people right here in my little Marion Ohio who need help - I'm sure of it. My son could use some more help but he and I work that out between us. 

I just pushed the budget so called to the edge (until the eagle flys again middle of the month  I just sent $100.00 for the girl so she can have a few bucks to buy some personal needs (girls always have personal needs  that she might need. She's going to a summer camp the state is providing for a few weeks, and then we're not sure what to do. Homeland Security has a humantarian visa blocked, otherwise my California friend would bring her here for a year of corrective surgery and preparation for life outside an orphanage. There would be no way she could stay. But apparently the government is terrified of her coming for a year.

What to do friends - like a lot of the rest of you the money just won't go around. It just won't and like Corey - I cry sometimes - I look at those photos and stories that I deal with it just floods over me - it's an endless line of misery. I'll be posting up on the website some things about AIDS in Ukraine which is now battering the nation and especially the young her age. She's learning disabled to some degree - not severe I believe, but eighteen years in an orphanage and going out into the wider world ....... well, you see my dilemma. Like many I'm caught betwixt and between and fail to have the answers.

I'm not bragging or complaining, just reaching out to a community whose opinions I have learned to respect. Thanks


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## babetoo (May 31, 2008)

how did you meet this calif. lady?  have u actually seen the girl? were you asked to give more that you are comfortable with giving.

have you checked out all these facts about the girl?

have you checked how and why this girl is here if they are not willing to give her a passport.

i am not saying this is a fraud but if i knew the answers to these questions maybe i could help with a decision.

my inclination is to help someone , child if you like. close to where u live. then you can judge the results yourself.

babe


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## Dave Hutchins (Jun 1, 2008)

There is a church in Des Moines that goes around to other churches and gathers food and on the 4th Sunday of each month they come down town at 10 am and distribute food to all !! lined up some mornings it is two blocks long, there are several missions here in town that provide food and some a bed for a night or two.  In the six ,months I have lived here I have not Sean on person bumming on the street or anybody with a sign will work for food.. This is a great improvement from when I left DM there were bums on almost every down town corner.  What i am trying to  imply that a tremendious amount of work has transpierd since I left thirty years ago to house and help those of us who of no fault of there own has landed on the street.  I am sure that there are a few beggers on the street today I just have not come across them


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## Fisher's Mom (Jun 1, 2008)

Oh David, you are feeling what all loving, caring people feel when faced with the knowledge that one person can only help a finite number of people financially because there are always more people in need than there is money to help. The thing you have to keep telling yourself is that every effort you make on the behalf of another is priceless. Just focus on what you can and are _able_ to do, and have faith that others will do the same. If you dwell on the people you can't assist, it is so depressing it can paralyze you. So give as you can and take joy in it - leave the rest to God or karma. 

As far as who to help - that is something only you can decide. But I don't see anything wrong with helping another human being no matter where they are on this planet - outside your door or across the ocean. Do what your heart leads you to do.

And by the way, you are a lovely man who clearly spends a lot of time in service to others - thank you. You make this world a better place, my friend.


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## Fisher's Mom (Jun 1, 2008)

Dave Hutchins said:


> There is a church in Des Moines that goes around to other churches and gathers food and on the 4th Sunday of each month they come down town at 10 am and distribute food to all !! lined up some mornings it is two blocks long, there are several missions here in town that provide food and some a bed for a night or two.  In the six ,months I have lived here I have not Sean on person bumming on the street or anybody with a sign will work for food.. This is a great improvement from when I left DM there were bums on almost every down town corner.  What i am trying to  imply that a tremendious amount of work has transpierd since I left thirty years ago to house and help those of us who of no fault of there own has landed on the street.  I am sure that there are a few beggers on the street today I just have not come across them


This is wonderful to hear Dave. I've also noticed there are fewer people sleeping under bridges here in San Antonio, too. I am hoping it is because we have better programs to help people get on their feet or get the medical help they need.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jun 2, 2008)

David Cottrell said:


> I have a question. Some of you may recall that I keep a website going - Books by Volunteers who serve Ukraine Orphans It's a twenty dollar bill a month to pay the host server so that's not an issue. What is an issue that I wonder about sometimes is just this:
> 
> Like many I am now on that fixed  social security income, having made some errors in judgement along the way. I can give a few bucks here and there to an orphanage or a specific cause there when I am acquainted with the people. Right now I have for the first time engaged in a specific cause - with a wonderful lady who lives in California and is trying to save an eighteen year disabled girl who has just graduated from her orphanage school. She's been in an orphanage all her life - abandoned at birth by her parents.
> 
> ...



It is my beleif that there is someone greater than us, and he does have a plan.  That plan is to send his children (all of us, men, women, children) into this world to gain a mortal body, to learn hard lessons, to feel joy, pain, and every emotion there is.  We are here to experience trials, and to find solutions to our weaknesses.  I believe that each of us has unique and special strengths and weaknesses that are addressed by our situations.  For every challenge that comes along, there is a solution, if we are willing to accept the help that is offered, both from others in mortality, and from on-high.  It is when we let personal pride get in the way, or greed, or despair, or any of a thousand traps that would hold us down, that we fail.  This is true for all of us.

We can not hope to help every person out there who needs help.  But we can find an organization that we trust, and donate time and resources to that organization.  In that way, a great mass of resources cones into play to help a great many more people than we could possibly assist by ourselves.  As with all things, our collective energies are more powerful than are our personal energies.

For me, I belong to an organization that gains no profit, and is distributed world wide.  It gathers moneys from all of its membership and uses it to help others, including those within its membership.  

I won't state what that organization is, as this isn't the proper forum for that discussion.  But I will say that it makes me more effective.  Add to that the things I do in my community, and the example I try to set, and the effort that went into my children, and I don't despair over what I haven't or can't do.  For I kow that I am doing what I can.  

But still, if there were a soup kitchen in my home town, I would be willing.

There are organizations out there to help us help others.  Just be careful which ones you choose.  Some charitable organizations use as much as 80% of the moneys received to run the organization and pay its workers.  That is not something I want to contribute to.

Seeeeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## David Cottrell (Jun 2, 2008)

Thanks Goodweed - somehow I could almost read what you said in your recipes.


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## buckytom (Jun 2, 2008)

gw posted a recipe for soup?

i thought this thread was supposed to be about being _nice_ to homeless people.


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## YT2095 (Jun 2, 2008)

I`v taken several in, much to the embarrassment of those I was walking with at the time (but I don`t care, my friends think I`m strange anyway).
I always cook too much food anyway, so there`s always a meal here, a hot bath, a change of clothes (my wife will throw there`s in the washing machine), and medical attention (that can and Has resulted in a trip to the hospital).
Gangrene of the toes was the worst case I`v encountered a few years ago just before Christmas, the Smell is Vile!
so after a bath and some clothes that I hadn`t worn for ages, a hot meal, and a chat, I managed to convince him that he needed Urgent medical attn.
we took him to A&E where he was admitted, and left him there for the staff to do their thing.
I phoned up next day, and apparently he`d had a few hours sleep and walked out without treatment 
we haven`t seen him since.

I often wonder about him (in particular).


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jun 2, 2008)

YT2095 said:


> I`v taken several in, much to the embarrassment of those I was walking with at the time (but I don`t care, my friends think I`m strange anyway).
> I always cook too much food anyway, so there`s always a meal here, a hot bath, a change of clothes (my wife will throw there`s in the washing machine), and medical attention (that can and Has resulted in a trip to the hospital).
> Gangrene of the toes was the worst case I`v encountered a few years ago just before Christmas, the Smell is Vile!
> so after a bath and some clothes that I hadn`t worn for ages, a hot meal, and a chat, I managed to convince him that he needed Urgent medical attn.
> ...


 
You not only help others when you do what you do, but you set an example for your little one.  You are a great Dad in more ways than you think.  That's one of the many reasons why I value you as a freind.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jun 2, 2008)

buckytom said:


> gw posted a recipe for soup?
> 
> i thought this thread was supposed to be about being _nice_ to homeless people.


 
Ya know...

At least my soup is made from clean water, not like that stuff you pull out of New Jersey taps.  You drink that stuff, or even cook with it, and I hear it's taps for you.

And don't you be trying to pawn off your grey water to those poor, unknowing neighbors of yours as a new flavor of organic broth.  There's a limit to how far your practical jokes should go.

Seeeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Alix (Jun 2, 2008)

What a pleasure to come back and read about all the big hearts here. This is the first thread I pulled up after being away this weekend and it did my heart good. This crew is one in a million.


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## stassie (Jun 2, 2008)

We don't really have the problems with homeless people that have been described so far here in NZ. I guess there probably are some people in this situation - but I'd guess that proportionally, there's not many.

I've been asked for money a couple of times. One in particular, I was given some spiel about needing money for petrol to get to a funeral. (I knew it was a spiel in this case... the couple must have been hanging round our Church, and tried the same thing on some friends the week before).

I've taken up a policy I learned from a very wise friend. I give money to the Salvation Army - I chose the Sallies in particular because I know that they do a lot of work with needy people in our area. If I'm asked for money, I explain that I donate to the Sallies so they can assist people who need help, and give the person asking their details. If they're really hungry / need petrol / whatever, they'll go - and I know that the Sallies have the resources to assess their needs accurately, and the ability to help.


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## luckytrim (Jun 2, 2008)

Back in the seventies, i "managed" a trio of food carts on the southeast corner of Central Park, Saturdays and Sundays. We sold Chinese items (Bao's, Egg Rolls) off one cart, hot dogs off the second, and Taco's, gazpacho and Guacamole' off the third.

Since everything but the sodas needed to be bought fresh-made each morning, I would, before driving home to Trenton, drive thru the Bowery and hand the leftovers out the window to the homeless. (At that time, it was estimated that there were 100,000 on Manhattan) I did that two nights, every week, winter and summer, for over two years, until we lost our vendors licenses (I'll keep the politics out, Alix).

My point is, during all that time, when These persons approached my car, only ONE TIME was my offering refused, by a young man who said indignantly, "I need money, you freakin' hippie! Food won't buy my wine!"

Only once, out of hundreds and hundreds of times..................
most of the time I would get a "God bless you" or "Thanks, I sure was hungry"..........A lot of times I got a dirty rag across my windshield, whether it needed it or not.


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## Alix (Jun 2, 2008)

Bless you LT, you are a gentleman and a gentle man. (And thanks for avoiding politics, you get karma for that my friend. And stop posting such hard trivia would you? )

If the world had more generous souls like yourself we wouldn't have many uncared for souls left in the world.


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