# Are dairy products harmful for my health?



## Stel Loula

Hi everybody ! 
I would like to have your opinion about a topic which is controversial: dairy products !







Here is my concern : for nearly 2 years now, every time I eat (both for lunch and dinner), I have to endure a runny nose (yeah, I'm serious, it's not a joke !). Sometimes, I even cough throughout my meal and, although rarely, violent burst of heat (or kind of) and pains in the sinuses.... That's really not funny. And pretty embarrassing to be forced to have a handkerchief within reach everywhere I go eat (what a panic when I forget it !).

So, recently, I went to an allergist and...she found nothing. Ok, great, I have no allergy. I can eat all what I want, I can run in the flower fields, I can have as many pets as I want. But that doesn't explain my weird problem !
Nevertheless, the specialist suggested I completely stop dairy products. Because, according to her, they might be harmful to health and, thus, this could explain my strange symptoms... She wants me to stop eating dairy products !!!!

But I have to confess that I'm quite perplexed. I've always heard that milk gives strength. Calcium (and some other of their nutrients) are expected to strengthen my bones, to make up my muscles, bring energy,... Moreover, as I am a vegetarian, I think I must consume dairy products to replace meat and not suffer from a lack of protein. Besides, I can't do without my yogurts and cheese, it's so hard for me !!!  

What do you think about DAIRY PRODUCTS ? Should I stop eating them ? HELP ME make a decision please!

Thanks 

P.S : as a french speaker, I would like to apologize for my bad English.


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## GotGarlic

Hi and welcome to Discuss Cooking  Your English is fine - don't worry about that. 

Do you have a primary care physician? If so, I would talk to that person next about your problem. It sounds like dairy has not always been an issue for you; when something new comes up with my health, I always consult my family doctor first. 

Just curious - what causes you to think that dairy is the problem? Could you be having a reaction to something else in your diet? 

If it turns out that you do have a reaction to dairy, you can still get enough protein from nuts, seeds and beans and other legumes. Combining beans and rice provides complete protein. You may want to do some research or consult a dietitian to learn more about ways to get enough protein from plants. Good luck


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## Aunt Bea

This is a decision that only you can make.

I found over the years that eating milk, sweets and grains in combination caused me to have a runny nose and sneeze. Sometimes it was worth it to me and other times it wasn't.  I have pretty much eliminated all three things from my diet because of the high amount of carbohydrates that they contain.  I do still use cheese made from cow's milk and I do not experience any problems with that.

As far as milk making you strong, elephants are strong and I don't believe that they drink much milk or eat much yogurt. Humans seem to be the only animals that rely on milk or milk products as adults, not sure why.

You could try using soy based yogurt and cheese in your diet to see if it makes a difference in how you feel.

I think you should read and experiment until you find a diet that is right for you.

Good luck!


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## FoodieFanatic

Ah, someone with the same situation that I have.  I have been to an allergist, my primary doctor, four opthomologists (eye doctors), and NONE of them can really tell me what causes my eyes to water and why I sometimes break out in coughing when I eat certain foods.  From all the tests I have had, I too, am allergic to nothing!

The best they can say is some foods/beverages are 'trigger' foods.  They cause a reaction to us, but are not dangerous, just annoying.  You have to pretty much keep a log of what you eat and how you react to it to find out causes the outbreaks.

I found with me it's cilantro, any kind of wine (and it's the niacin not sulfites that make me burst bright red and itch, white or red, doesn't matter), and MSG.

If you were allergic to dairy, you would have a different reaction and it would have shown up in your test.  Could they be a 'trigger'?  Sure.  I'd try drinking a glass of milk and see what happens.  That's what the doctor's told me to do.

Also, some combinations of foods, eaten together will trigger a runny nose/cough.  I would keep a little notebook with me and when I was out eating and something triggered my reaction, I'd write it down.  That's how I figured out the cilantro reaction.  

Then, I tried it at home by eating a piece and sure enough, runny nose/cough.  Too bad because I love it!  The doctor said I could still have it, but just realize it will start the nose/cough thing.  I would down LOTS of water and it was usually gone in an hour or so.  However, not worth it.  I stay away from it.

Hope this helps you out.  I've lived with it for over 15 years, just started out of no where.


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## Steve Kroll

Eggs, nuts, and milk are the most common food allergens, so it's entirely possible you are having a reaction.

I don't think I could easily give up cheese, either. It's one of my favorite foods. I think I would almost rather deal with the runny nose.


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## CStanford

They are not harmful to your health unless you are allergic to them.  See a physician to find out.  Otherwise, don't be afraid of food.  None of us are getting out of this thing called life, alive.  Enjoy cooking and eating great food with people you care about.  Make memories.  Make a life.  Enjoy the efforts of others who enjoy cooking and feeding food to an appreciative clientele.


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## Stel Loula

Hi ! Thanks for your answer 

I just come back from my physiotherapist and, according to him, the issue isn't the fact that dairy prod. are bad for me, but just that it's hard for my stomach to digest them properly. He is actually working on it (I decided to take some appointments for my sore neck pains but he says that all my problems are related to my gallbladder....). 

Maybe he'll manage to end that problem !


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## CharlieD

Dairy is good for you, but it can be allergy starter and as a person gets older it is harder to digest it. Try to cut it for few days, see what happens. Then restart again, see what happens. Compare notes.


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## CStanford

Stel Loula said:


> Hi ! Thanks for your answer
> 
> I just come back from my physiotherapist and, according to him, the issue isn't the fact that dairy prod. are bad for me, but just that it's hard for my stomach to digest them properly. He is actually working on it (I decided to take some appointments for my sore neck pains but he says that all my problems are related to my gallbladder....).
> 
> Maybe he'll manage to end that problem !



If you are lactose intolerant this can be (but not always) an easy problem to fix by taking Lactaid or something similar before eating dairy.

If you suspect that you have a more serious problem you should make an appointment with a medical doctor -- somebody board certified in internal medicine or gastroenterology, rather than seeking medical advice on a public cooking forum.


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## Andy M.

CStanford said:


> ...If you suspect that you have a more serious problem you should make an appointment with a medical doctor -- somebody board certified in internal medicine or gastroenterology, rather than seeking medical advice on a public cooking forum.



This!


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## FoodieFanatic

I agree, you should consult an internal medicine doctor.  Not sure if a physiotherapist (isn't that for injuries; sports medicine) doctor is the right doctor for internal disorders.


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## RPCookin

I'm lactose intolerant, but as long as I don't drink milk by the glassful, I can deal with it.  My doctor diagnosed it many years ago while I was just into my 30's.  I was drinking a lot of milk and having all sorts of issues because of it.  When I quit doing that, the issues went away.  Now I drink about 80 ounces of water daily and only take in what dairy I get when it's incorporated in other foods.  

I use only lactose free milk so I can have cereal for breakfast a few times a week, and I use it for cooking sauces and other recipes requiring milk.  Cheese doesn't seem to bother me, but I don't usually eat a lot of it.  Although I love it, I don't eat a lot of ice cream more because of it's negative effect on my waistline.  As long as I eat dairy products sensibly, it's not a huge problem.


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## jalynn1

There's other ways to get protein - I use a really good product called "Garden of Life" Meal replacement

It has 20g of Protein - it is fairly filling & is organic (USDA certified).

You shd keep a Food diary [then, you can TRACK how you do ] - I've done this B4 myself, & am starting one again.

It probably wouldn't hurt for you to at least try to go off some dairy products (and/or use 'reduced fat' stuff.)  **Track it day by day* - maybe even set up some GOALS for yrself.

I intend to set a few goals - am going to use this online Goal tracker called Joesgoals.com. You simply enter your goal, & check it off as you finish the task.  You can determine what days of the week appear for which goals. (it's *simple*, super-straightforward)

Then there's *Goal-buddy.com* - which is more detailed, and has more to it. For instance, u can have an accountability partner.  

That one product can be found @ Amzn (the "Raw Meal" by "Garden of Life").  I like to use it & also kefir (which keeps my stomach in good shape)

I wish u luck . 
 P.S. I would think you can keep drinking milk, though.  If not, take a high quality calcium pill.


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## Stel Loula

Yeah, I do understand your point of view : why ask for "non-qualified" internet users to find an issue to my problem ? But the fact is that all the medical doctor I have seen until now have different views and no real explanations about it.... 

That's why I thought to speak about it in that forum, to find, perhaps, people like me, who could help me deal with my dairy issue ^^"


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## Stel Loula

Actually, after 4 visits to my physio, I seem to get pretty better... I don't really now how he does : he massages my stomach, up and down, makes me do breath excercises (for instance, when I expire, I have to push his fingers, placed on different spots on my stomach - yeah, quite weird ! lol). Seems to work, 'cause I have no headache anymore and my nose runs much less !

(I'm really really sorry about my poor abilities in writing english ! :x)


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## FoodieFanatic

Sounds like acupressure.  I learned a number of acupressure points in a yoga class I took years ago.  It really does work.


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## GotGarlic

Acu-stuff doesn't really work. The placebo effect does, though.


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef

Since when were dairy products controversial?


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## Zereh

GotGarlic said:


> Acu-stuff doesn't really work. The placebo effect does, though.



It's more than placebo. you're very mistaken about it being fake.


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## taxlady

GotGarlic said:


> Acu-stuff doesn't really work. The placebo effect does, though.


It may often be placebo effect, but I had an experience where it worked. One of my ovaries was in the wrong place and was stuck there with adhesions according to several MDs. I spoke to my tai chi teacher who was a doctor of Chinese medicine. He told me, "Elastic that hold up egg house is tired. Needs blood." He did some acupressure massage. He told me which spots on my spine needed stimulating and told me to have my boyfriend do that every day for a few weeks. He told me to think my "egg-house" up every time I did an upward movement with my hands in tai chi. I thought it sounded pretty hokey and not likely to work. However, the next time I went for a gynecological exam the doctor wouldn't believe me that my ovary had ever been in the wrong place. It also alleviated all the symptoms.


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## FoodieFanatic

GotGarlic said:


> Acu-stuff doesn't really work. The placebo effect does, though.



Works exceptionally well. What is the placebo effect? 
Did you have it done by a naturopathic doctor? My primary doctor even endorses it as a helpful way to treat many disorders.


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## puffin3

Your blood type has a lot to do with what foods are and are not 'good' for you.
Read the book: 'Eat Right For Your Blood Type'.
Some people don't believe the theory. It's your call.
Different races evolved eating foods available.


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## CraigC

puffin3 said:


> Your blood type has a lot to do with what foods are and are not 'good' for you.
> Read the book: 'Eat Right For Your Blood Type'.
> Some people don't believe the theory. It's your call.
> *Different races evolved eating foods available.*



Maybe in the stone age, but ever since invading military have brought their "availables" with them and returned with new "availables" from the invaded countries.


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## GotGarlic

The blood type diet was proven not to work: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140115172246.htm

And the book was written by a naturopath - that should tell you all you need to know: http://skepdic.com/natpathy.html


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## taxlady

Ancestry has some effect on what foods are good or bad for you. E.g., most Northern Europeans can tolerate dairy; most Latin Americans can't. OTH, most of us have enough mix in our ancestry that it isn't straightforward.


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## FoodieFanatic

GotGarlic said:


> The blood type diet was proven not to work: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140115172246.htm
> 
> And the book was written by a naturopath - that should tell you all you need to know: naturopathy - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com



So true!  My sister went on it for a long time  and now has all kinds of problems, same with another relative who got REALLY ill and lost so much weight they didn't know what was wrong.  It wasn't until they started eating a balanced diet that their weight returned.  

I have the same blood type as she does and NONE of the stuff she said I shouldn't eat, bothers me at all!  I never went for it, thank goodness.

Another hyped up fad that needs to go away. IMO


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## cinisajoy

Hi.   I can't drink milk except in very small quantities. 
I wish it just gave me a runny nose.  It gives me digestive problems. 
If it was me, I would keep a diary of what you are eating when you get a runny nose.   That way you can find the common ingredient.


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## puffin3

I follow the BTD fairly closely but I'm not fanatical about it.
I generally  avoid eating dairy/oats/corn products and potatoes.
This seems to be a reasonable diet.
Our whole family and extended family keep pretty close to the BTD. We are all very healthy.
The essence of the theory can be seen under a microscope.
Blood cells are on a slide. Certain food types are positioned beside the blood cells. The blood cells either sort of absorb or they do not react at all or they sort of repel the food.
The foods the blood cells absorb are 'beneficial' the ones that have no reaction are 'neutral' and the ones that are sort of repelled are 'avoids.
This is a gross simplification but you get the idea.
As for some 'naturopath' claiming the BTD is BS there are many thousands of Doctors,naturopaths,homeopaths who agree the BTD is beneficial.
 My wife's GP claims adamantly that taking vitamins is useless and all a big hoax perpetrated by "Big Pharma". But my wife still takes her daily vitamins.
I don't know if 'Bigfoot' exists but I'm not going to claim it doesn't.


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## taxlady

Blood absorbs and releases oxygen. It isn't there to absorb food.


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## puffin3

taxlady said:


> Blood absorbs and releases oxygen. It isn't there to absorb food.


I know that.
I did say my explanation was very simplistic.
I'm not trying to convert anyone to the BTD. I said IMO it makes sense.
There is lots of information available on Google for anyone who's curious.


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## GotGarlic

puffin3 said:


> The essence of the theory can be seen under a microscope.
> Blood cells are on a slide. Certain food types are positioned beside the blood cells. The blood cells either sort of absorb or they do not react at all or they sort of repel the food.
> The foods the blood cells absorb are 'beneficial' the ones that have no reaction are 'neutral' and the ones that are sort of repelled are 'avoids.
> This is a gross simplification but you get the idea.



Taxlady is right - nutrient absorption does not work this way. Even as a simplified explanation, it's incorrect. 

http://www.ue.net/body-eng/06intestine.html



puffin3 said:


> As for some 'naturopath' claiming the BTD is BS there are many thousands of Doctors,naturopaths,homeopaths who agree the BTD is beneficial.



You misunderstood my comment. I provided a link to a scientific research article showing that the blood-type diet doesn’t work. I don't care how many people think it does; I care what the research shows.

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/blood-type-diet-disproved/

The book about eating for your blood type was written by Peter d'Adamo, who is a naturopath. To me, that makes it unreliable since naturopaths are not real doctors.


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## GotGarlic

puffin3 said:


> I know that.
> I did say my explanation was very simplistic.
> I'm not trying to convert anyone to the BTD. I said IMO it makes sense.
> There is lots of information available on Google for anyone who's curious.



Not every Google result is equally valid. There is lots of bad information out there. You have to learn to distinguish the reliable from the unreliable.


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## GotGarlic

FoodieFanatic said:


> Works exceptionally well. What is the placebo effect?
> Did you have it done by a naturopathic doctor? My primary doctor even endorses it as a helpful way to treat many disorders.



Sorry, I missed this before. The placebo effect is where patients exhibit a response to a simulated treatment because they expect it to happen. Scientists use this phenomenon to compare pharmaceutical treatments with placebos to see if they actually work. 

No, I wouldn't see a naturopath. They're not real doctors.


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## GotGarlic

Aunt Bea said:


> Humans seem to be the only animals that rely on milk or milk products as adults, not sure why.



Humans do a lot of things other animals don't do, including cooking 

I think it came about as a backup food for babies after people started domesticating animals. Some women can't nurse or don't have enough milk, so animal milk would supplement the supply. It contains a lot of protein and calcium, so it's pretty healthful, in general.

And after cheese was discovered, people had a nice, portable source of preserved protein and other nutrients.


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## cinisajoy

Well now it has been over a decade since I took anatomy and physiology.    If I remember correctly,  it is the intestines that process and absorb the nutrients.    I know the kidneys filter out the toxins.
As far as doctors go,  I know several doctors personally that I wouldn't take medical advice from.   There is a slight difference between an MD and a PhD.   Though some MD's do have PhDs.


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## GotGarlic

cinisajoy said:


> Well now it has been over a decade since I took anatomy and physiology.    If I remember correctly,  it is the intestines that process and absorb the nutrients.    I know the kidneys filter out the toxins.
> As far as doctors go,  I know several doctors personally that I wouldn't take medical advice from.   There is a slight difference between an MD and a PhD.   Though some MD's do have PhDs.



There is a *huge* difference between MDs and PhDs. Medical doctors diagnose and treat physical diseases. PhDs don't. Some PhDs are psychologists who diagnose and treat mental health problems, but not physical problems. PhDs in the biomedical sciences primarily do research and teach medical and graduate students. 

The stomach and intestines process and absorb nutrients, with help from digestive chemicals from the liver and pancreas.


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## puffin3

GotGarlic said:


> The blood type diet was proven not to work: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140115172246.htm
> 
> And the book was written by a naturopath - that should tell you all you need to know: naturopathy - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com


After reading your link I can conclude the author believes naturopaths are full of BS. Acupuncture is "not backed up by sound research". I guess he would then have us believe ayurvedic medicine and chinese herbal medicine are also "not backed up by "sound research".


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## bethzaring

Aunt Bea said:


> Humans seem to be the only animals that rely on milk or milk products as adults, not sure why.


 

Humans need most/all of the vitamins and minerals  available through foods every day or every other day to maintain optimum health.  In order for the body to absorb calcium and phosphorus,  these two minerals must be provided in the proper ratio.  I don't think it is any coincidence that milk provides these important minerals in the correct ratio for the body to able to absorb them both.


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## cinisajoy

GotGarlic said:


> There is a *huge* difference between MDs and PhDs. Medical doctors diagnose and treat physical diseases. PhDs don't. Some PhDs are psychologists who diagnose and treat mental health problems, but not physical problems. PhDs in the biomedical sciences primarily do research and teach medical and graduate students.
> 
> The stomach and intestines process and absorb nutrients, with help from digestive chemicals from the liver and pancreas.


The doctors I know had PhDs in subjects like History, Literature,  Music and Mathematics.    I think one was psychology.    
I do know do not ask a doctor of history if his medical doctor father wanted him to become a real doctor.  Learned that one the hard way.


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## GotGarlic

puffin3 said:


> After reading your link I can conclude the author believes naturopaths are full of BS. Acupuncture is "not backed up by sound research". I guess he would then have us believe ayurvedic medicine and chinese herbal medicine are also "not backed up by "sound research".



You're right - they're not. The fact that something has been around for a long time doesn't make it true or valid. That's a logical fallacy called the Appeal to Antiquity or Tradition. 

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/appeals/appeal-to-tradition/

"Appeals to antiquity assume that older ideas are better, that the fact that an idea has been around for a while implies that it is true. This, of course, is not the case; old ideas can be bad ideas, and new ideas can be good ideas. We therefore can’t learn anything about the truth of an idea just by considering how old it is."

That's why the scientific method was developed - to prove or disprove ideas using empirical testing.


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## GotGarlic

cinisajoy said:


> The doctors I know had PhDs in subjects like History, Literature,  Music and Mathematics.    I think one was psychology.
> I do know do not ask a doctor of history if his medical doctor father wanted him to become a real doctor.  Learned that one the hard way.



So you're saying you wouldn't take medical advice from a PhD? I would hope not  

PhDs aren't generally referred to as doctors, although that is part of their title. When people say doctor, especially in the context of this thread, it's understood, I think, that we're referring to a physician.


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## cinisajoy

GotGarlic said:


> So you're saying you wouldn't take medical advice from a PhD? I would hope not
> 
> PhDs aren't generally referred to as doctors, although that is part of their title. When people say doctor, especially in the context of this thread, it's understood, I think, that we're referring to a physician.


My apologies.    I spent 5 years addressing PhD's as doctors. 
But then as far as the medical field goes: there are some nurses with PhDs.
In general,  no I wouldn't take medical advice from a PhD or a doctor on network TV.
I would also not take medical advice from any doctor that guarantees his diet will work for everyone regardless of the degree.

I would be more inclined to take the advice of someone who said quitting smoking did wonders for my health.


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## taxlady

I would address someone with a Phd as "Doctor", but I wouldn't refer to them as a "doctor".


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## puffin3

GotGarlic said:


> Taxlady is right - nutrient absorption does not work this way. Even as a simplified explanation, it's incorrect.
> 
> Book "I am Your Body"
> 
> 
> 
> You misunderstood my comment. I provided a link to a scientific research article showing that the blood-type diet doesn’t work. I don't care how many people think it does; I care what the research shows.
> 
> NeuroLogica Blog Â» Blood Type Diet – Disproved
> 
> The book about eating for your blood type was written by Peter d'Adamo, who is a naturopath. To me, that makes it unreliable since naturopaths are not real doctors.


It's time for me to leave this thread.
I've read both sides.
I just feel healthier not eating so much bread/potatoes/corn (in almost every processed food).


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## GotGarlic

puffin3 said:


> It's time for me to leave this thread.
> I've read both sides.
> I just feel healthier not eating so much bread/potatoes/corn (in almost every processed food).



I'm not surprised that you feel better eating less bread, potatoes, corn and processed food. Most people would, no matter their blood type.


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