# E. Coli



## sassy (Dec 13, 2006)

Since fall, there have been numerous E. Coli breakouts here in the Twin Cities/Metro Area of Minnesota resulting from store bought lettuce, and, most recently Taco Bell.  I had planned on including a salad of mixed greens on the menu for a holiday party but now am thinking twice about that.  Sometimes I buy the prewashed lettuce in the sealed bag but sometimes I mix it up and use endive, raddichio, etc.  Should I just scrap it and make a fresh fruit salad?  Greens go SO much better w/lasagna -  what do you think???


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## suzyQ3 (Dec 13, 2006)

Sassy, you're probably perfectly fine with any produce you buy. But nobody can give you a 100 percent guarantee. If you're going to worry about it and if you think your guests may have any qualms whatsoever, I'd skip it and do your fruit salad -- or if you want something green, maybe marinated veggies or something.


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## Constance (Dec 13, 2006)

If I were you, I'd buy a head of plain old iceberg lettuce, and wash it well. I always peel off several of the outer layers and dispose of those.

I have quit buying any of the bagged stuff lately.


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## ironchef (Dec 13, 2006)

The simple solution is: don't include lettuce. You don't need to have lettuce in there if you really want a green salad. Buy mesuclin greens or buy the greens seperate such as frisee, arugula, etc. and mix it together at home.


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## BreezyCooking (Dec 13, 2006)

Ironchef - I don't know what "mesclun" greens contain where you live, but around here they definitely contain lettuce. "Mesclun" is just a mix of baby greens of all types - including lettuce. And frisee, arugula, etc., are "fresh greens" as well.  Buying them separate & mixing them at home is no guarantee against e-coli contamination.  Baby spinach is sold separately to be mixed at home - & that was the most serious outbreak so far, if you recall.

In addition, the e-coli outbreaks aren't necessarily coming from exterior sources that can be "washed off". In the past they've been traced to water sources that are being "absorbed" by the produce, thus cannot just be washed off. They're "inside" the produce, & can only possibly be killed by cooking.

To be honest Sassy, if I were you I would make a nice big mixed green salad - washed & dried well for what it's worth - & let your guests make their own decisions. I'm still eating green salads on an almost daily basis - both pre-bagged & home mixed - & don't plan on changing (until our next growing season when I, as usual, will be growing my own salad greens).


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## Alix (Dec 13, 2006)

Sassy, why don't you go buy some cabbage and make a nice coleslaw? There are lots of exoticy recipes floating around. Or, make a marinated veggie salad. Use broccoli, cauliflower, etc and marinate with a nice Italian dressing or maybe a balsamic vinaigrette.


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## Uncle Bob (Dec 13, 2006)

Make the green salad....Enjoy!!


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## goboenomo (Dec 13, 2006)

There as been some E Coli problems up here too. In spinach. We have to take the spinach out of the house salad mix at my work.


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## amber (Dec 13, 2006)

I guess I would do as breezy suggested and make a salad and leave it up to your guests if they want to eat it.  As far as I recall, it was/is only bagged greens (mostly from California I think) that were contaminated.  I havent heard anything about head lettuce being contaminated.  It certainly is scary that we have to decide whether or not to eat bagged greens though.  Think I might start growing my own lettuce and other greens in the spring!


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## auntdot (Dec 13, 2006)

I am with the 'make the green salad and enjoy' group.

Most contamination seems to come not from the field but from the processing and washing.  And it is on the surface of the lettuce.  The root structure of the veggie will not allow bacteria to pass through.  Once the leaves are separated, I suppose, the channels could allow bacteria in.  But most is on the surface.

So wash it well (one outbreak apparently happened because the 'prewashed' lettuce was washed with contaminated water).

We live in a country of some 300 million folks and outbreaks are fairly rare.

They should be stopped, sure, but there are culinary adventures I take, knowing the risk. I eat raw shellfish, and at times, raw meat. My hamburgers are always rare (although I usually grind the stuff myself. It keeps the contamination down, but do it because I think we make a better product).

And I wash my salad greens and that is all.

And I eat lettuce with impunity.

You have to do what you feel comfortable doing.  But I will eat green salads (am not a particular fan of iceburg lettuce) without a thought.


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## BreezyCooking (Dec 13, 2006)

Actually AuntDot - the contamination so far has been traced to contaminated water supplies in the fields - i.e. from contaminated animal feces that have infiltrated the water supply used to irrigate the crops.

I say - once AGAIN - you cannot WASH off the contamination.  If the greens are contaminated, unless you COOK them, you are at risk.

I continue to eat fresh greens, once my garden greens are killed by frost, & take my chances - but for those of you at risk (young, old, immune-compromised), DON'T do it.


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## Alix (Dec 13, 2006)

OK, this is one of those "hot button" issues for people. Its sort of like the defrosting the chicken on the counter thing. Lots of folks do it and are fine with it. It makes others want to pull out their hair when they read about people doing that. Many people are worried about the E Coli scares lately, many are not.  

So, my point is, read this entire thread! There is good information here and you can make your own decisions from there.


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## BreezyCooking (Dec 13, 2006)

You're right Alix - this is always going to be a "agree to disagree" issue.

But I'd still sort of advise that everyone "agree to disagree" so long as it doesn't involve young children, elderly folks, or anyone in any way immune compromised.

The rest of us are free to take our chances such as they are - lol!!!!


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## Alix (Dec 13, 2006)

LMAO! OK, where's my head shaking smiley? I'll settle for...


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## jennyema (Dec 13, 2006)

On CNN this morning they said that now they think it might have been yellow or white onions and not scallions that were the source of the problem.

That's worse, IMO.  If true.


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## VeraBlue (Dec 13, 2006)

Unfortunately, even fruit, especially melons can be contaminated with e.coli.  It's strongly suggested that melons be washed before cutting the skin off.

Anyway....

Eating fresh vegetables is going to become one of those 'should I or shouldn't I?' sort of things.  Personally, I prefer loose vegetables to prebagged ones.  No guarantee it's any safer, but still, I prefer it.  Organic might be the way to go, but again, no guarantee.  

I do believe that with all these recent outbreaks, the FDA is going to introduce some extremely strict guidelines for every thing from planting the seeds to the temperatures of the trucks that deliver it.  It could effect the cost of fresh produce.  It's unfortunate, because years were spent marketing fresh fruit and vegetables and now frozen is flying off the shelves.

Keep your own body in mind.  Know what you feel and if anything changes.  If you have immune deficiency, perhaps you should avoid fresh produce.   On the other hand, when you consider all the acres of farms producing fresh vegetables, it's amazing that there are not more cases of contaminations.  

Wash, cook, and hope for the best.


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## BreezyCooking (Dec 13, 2006)

Okay - latest news flash tonight is that they've "supposedly" traced this latest e-coli outbreak at Taco Bell restaurants not to onions, but to lettuce - the fresh shredded lettuce they add to nearly everything on their menu.


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## Uncle Bob (Dec 13, 2006)

Right on AuntDot..!!!! 

Not to make light of a somewhat serious situation...What would really be news worthy is someone eating at Taco Bell and NOT getting sick!


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## JDP (Dec 13, 2006)

When the first outbreaks of e-coli and spinache came out it was only on the bagged products. I believe this is from a few contaminated plats that were combined with good spinache. In my area all the bagged product was pulled off the shelf but you could still buy spinache in bunches. It would be the same with Taco Bell's pecut lettuce. It's also my understanding that e-coli is an aerobic bacteria that lives on the surface and that is why ground beef becomes a problem and not steaks so I don't know if it could actually live inside a plant that absorbs tainted water. Let me know if it can. 

Bottom line for me I would take my chances and eat the salad.

JDP


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## BreezyCooking (Dec 13, 2006)

Yeah. Taco Bell shouldn't be anyone's first choice for dining out - lol!!

That said, however, I do admit that once in a while I do drive thru & pick up a couple of their "old-time regular" tacos.  For me it's a "blast from the past" when, growing up back in NY, a Jack-In-The-Box taco was serious "night after" savior food - lol!!!!


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## StirBlue (Dec 15, 2006)

Some people do not even know that there is an e coli problem.   

Does this e coli mean that they used the cow feces type fertilizer from diseased (mad cow disease) animals?


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## goboenomo (Dec 15, 2006)

Well, I'm not about to read this, but the picture of the cows seem to be pointing in your favour.
Check for yourself.
e.Coli 0157 - Where does eColi come from?


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## StirBlue (Dec 15, 2006)

thought so.


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## Candocook (Dec 15, 2006)

Does this e coli mean that they used the cow feces type fertilizer from diseased (mad cow disease) animals?

No, and this is a really mixed "metaphor" that shouldn't get started. E.coli bears NO relationship to mad cow.   
They didn't use fertilizer--it was contaminated water (in other outbreaks) in the fields of greens that were near an animal producing farm.
Mad Cow Disease is virtually unknown in the US and comes from feeding animals feed that contains animal parts (brains and CNS parts)--which they should not have in the first place-- from diseased animals. This is illegal in the US for a number of years. I believe the very few MCD animals have been traced to being imported--mostly from Canada.  
And I have not heard of an outbreak that was traced to the washing process of the greens--has been in the field contamination.


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## BreezyCooking (Dec 15, 2006)

Candocook is right - the health of the animals involved really doesn't have bearing on the e-coli outbreaks.

Various strains of e-coli live in virtually all mammal feces - livestock, wild deer & pigs, & human feces included.  Not all these strains cause illness, but obviously some do.  Although I don't believe anything was absolutely positively pinpointed as the definite cause, the investigations with regards to the spinach outbreak tentatively traced the sometimes-fatal strain to possible water runoff from a neighboring cattle farm, even though there are apparently regulations in place as to legal distances to be kept between livestock & produce production.


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## Candocook (Dec 15, 2006)

With regard to legal distances, etc., as we all know  ____ happens.  LOL


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