# I give to you... Fish Fatty



## pacanis

Or if the timing was different, Lenten Fatty. Or Lenten Log 

I've had this idea rolling around in my brain for a while and am finally tackling it today. A fatty made using fish, in this case canned salmon, rather than the usual sausage chub. And stuffed with tiny shrimp and mozzarella.
The salmon was drained and mixed using egg, garlic powder, smoked paprika, ground pepper, green onions, parsley, mayo, lemon juice and bread crumbs, as if I was making a salmon patty. One fatty has a "white" taco sauce and one has cocktail sauce.
They are in the fridge while they set up some and I drink a beer  
The WSM will get fired up shortly. My target temp is 160F for the smoker (pretty cold) and 140 for the fatties... so we'll see what happens. I will use apple wood.

Here's some pics so far.


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## Andy M.

Sounds and looks like a good idea.  Are you wrapping them in bacon?


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## pacanis

Andy M. said:


> Sounds and looks like a good idea. Are you wrapping them in bacon?


 
Thanks. I'm looking forward to trying them out.
I'm keeping them meat free, just for the heck of it. I had thought of a bacon weave, but with the colder smoking temps used for fish, I just wasn't sure if bacon would work.


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## roadfix

That should work.  Right on!


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## Andy M.

pacanis said:


> Thanks. I'm looking forward to trying them out.
> I'm keeping them meat free, just for the heck of it. I had thought of a bacon weave, *but with the colder smoking temps used for fish, I just wasn't sure if bacon would work*.




Good point.  If this works, a whole new world of possibilities opens up - with or without meat.


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## Paymaster

Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now you might be on to sumthin!


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## buckytom

so, how'd it go? looks good to start.

btw, i've heard of salmon bacon before. or you could make a weave out of fish skin, which would crisp in the smoker. i mean, i love crispy fish skin.

just a thought.


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## Bolas De Fraile

Pac mate what a fantastic idea its got legs.


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## Bolas De Fraile

buckytom said:


> btw, i've heard of salmon bacon before. or you could make a weave out of fish skin, which would crisp in the smoker. i mean, i love crispy fish skin.
> 
> just a thought.


Tom mate what a spiffing idea, we used to have a deli in L/pool that hand sliced smoked salmon, my mum would buy the skins and wrap and poach white fish fillets in them then poach the wrapped fillet in milk, the poaching liquid was then used to make a smoky parsley sauce.Served with mash it was fantastic.I bet the skin would work like a dream on Pacs dish.


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## buckytom

if we got together, we'd eat like the kings we despise... lol.

but really, fried salmon skin is akin to fried pork rinds, but on a fishy note. they're fantastic. great as a filler for temaki.

so, where's ridgeback daddy himself on the fish rolatini?


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## Bolas De Fraile

buckytom said:


> if we got together, we'd eat like the kings we despise... lol.


Tom mate given your penchant for Boas and makeup dont you mean Kings and Queens


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## buckytom

it's only showbiz.

5,6,7,8...


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## Bolas De Fraile

buckytom said:


> it's only showbiz.
> 
> 5,6,7,8...


Dang another prospective tinternet romance bites the dust!!!!!!!!!
Ps did you visit the BBC archers forum I posted the link for, after a week of intense postings about the catastrophe surrounding News International someone started the thread " How do I stop my knickers riding up" when I last looked it had 120 replies.


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## buckytom

i was 117.


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## Bolas De Fraile

Fantastic it took me 6 posts to get a temp ban.
Ps is I like your screen name Danny La Rue


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## pacanis

Salmon bacon, that's what it needed.

Everything started out so well... but my fish fatty turned into a fish patty. They both totally lost their shape. And I don't mean falling apart at the seams, they deflated as if they had been filled with air and the probe thermometer let it all out. I was hoping that the one the cheese did not ooze out of was sliceable anyway, but trying to slice it was like trying to slice mashed potatoes. I am not sure what happened. The texture was very much like a typical fatty when they went on the smoker, but it was apparent that the flaked salmon lost its structural integrity the more that it cooked. Perhaps it needed a quick sear in oil. Maybe adding a crust to the outside would have helped, but I'm thinking not.

That said, the taste was amazing. I ended up using it as a spread on some Ritz crackers, as I had already eaten dinner by the time they were cooked. That took a lot longer than I thought it would. Both fatties had a very pleasant smokiness coupled with the fish and shrimp mixture. I am looking forward to trying it cold on a sandwich later today. And also seeing how well it warms back up.

The fatty idea needs tweaked, but as a smoked fish spread it's a winner.
Perhaps they needed more bread crumbs?
At any rate, next time I play with this I will make a large meatball as a trial. Maybe just cook it on the grill. If I can get a meatball to cook without settling like a Toll House cookie, I might be onto something.


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## Andy M.

Sorry you didn't get a better result.  Thinking about it after the fact, fish gets firm and flakes when cooked.  That may be the fatal flaw in making a fish fatty - no structural integrity.


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## pacanis

Yeah, I might as well have spooned the mixture into muffin tins and made fish cakes, lol.
I have not given up yet. It just needs rethunk ;^)


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## Timothy

pacanis said:


> Yeah, I might as well have spooned the mixture into muffin tins and made fish cakes, lol.
> I have not given up yet. It just needs rethunk ;^)


 
Well, phooey, pacanis! I had my fingers crossed for you. I was hoping to see a nice sliced loaf when I signed on this morning.

Basically, it was just too moist to hold shape?


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## Zhizara

Perhaps next time you could put it in a loaf pan, with a bacon lattice on top.  

It sounds like it was tasty enough to repeat.

Maybe making a bacon lattice would work, but what a mess if it didn't.


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## pacanis

Timothy said:


> Well, phooey, pacanis! I had my fingers crossed for you. I was hoping to see a nice sliced loaf when I signed on this morning.
> 
> Basically, it was just too moist to hold shape?


 
Believe me, Timothy, I was looking forward to taking that picture! 

They did not seem any more moist than making a sausage fatty, so I don't know if the fish and/or the shrimp leached moisture or not, but they were anything but dry when finished. I even patted dry the shrimp.


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## BigAL

Sorry to hear it, Pac.  Fantastic effort and great idea!


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## pacanis

Thanks Big Al.
I haven't stuck a fork in it yet... although, really that is the best way to eat this.


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## Timothy

pacanis said:


> Believe me, Timothy, I was looking forward to taking that picture!
> 
> They did not seem any more moist than making a sausage fatty, so I don't know if the fish and/or the shrimp leached moisture or not, but they were anything but dry when finished. I even patted dry the shrimp.


 
Here's a video where a fish loaf is made. This lady uses parchment paper to wrap the loaf in, and bread crumbs and egg as a binder. I think the parchment paper holding it in shape until it firmed up in the oven may be a big help, or using an oiled loaf pan perhaps.

You also might try dicing the shrimp and pressing the water from the dice. That might get rid of some more moisture.

Fish Loaf (Sliced for sandwiches)


.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

You will need a binder for the fish to hold it's shape, and even then, there should be support  Salmon just doesn't have the collagen or connecting tissue found in red meats to bind the ingredients together.  Adding eggs would help.  If you had a fat net, that would help as well.  Also, if you use thick aluminum foil to wrap the fattie in, it might create enough of a structure to hole the fatty until it is cooked enough to hold its shape.

Good luck.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Andy M.

Fred, how about using thin slices of salmon or other fish filet laid out in an overlapping pattern then filled with your other ingredients and rolled.


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## ChefJune

Andy M. said:


> Sounds and looks like a good idea. Are you wrapping them in bacon?


 
Funny how great minds work....  I thought the same thing as I was reading his post.


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## pacanis

Good suggestions.
The parchment paper is nice. That might still allow the smoke to get through.
And maybe more eggs and bread crumbs. She used half a cup for 1 lb, I used half a cup for 28 oz of salmon plus the shrimp... and just 2 eggs. Maybe increasing the eggs and cutting out the mayo will help bind it more, along with more crumbs.
And I think strips of something would help. Something to help define the layers, because none of the layers were defined after cooking. It lost any spiral effect rolling it had. Maybe some paper thin salmon inside as a layer.


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## PrincessFiona60

pacanis said:


> Good suggestions.
> The parchment paper is nice. That might still allow the smoke to get through.
> And maybe more eggs and bread crumbs. She used half a cup for 1 lb, I used half a cup for 28 oz of salmon plus the shrimp... and just 2 eggs. Maybe increasing the eggs and cutting out the mayo will help bind it more, along with more crumbs.
> And I think strips of something would help. Something to help define the layers, because none of the layers were defined after cooking. It lost any spiral effect rolling it had. Maybe some paper thin salmon inside as a layer.




Just mail it...I don't care if the layers are defined or not...


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## pacanis

PrincessFiona60 said:


> Just mail it...I don't care if the layers are defined or not...


 
Tell ya what I'll do 
I'll smoke it in one of those round mailer tubes. That way it will not only hold it's shape, it will be ready for mailing when done


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## PrincessFiona60

pacanis said:


> Tell ya what I'll do
> I'll smoke it in one of those round mailer tubes. That way it will not only hold it's shape, it will be ready for mailing when done



That would be perfect!!!  Just reading about it is making me crazy!  I love Salmon.


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## pacanis

Something I just learned from Chicken of the Sea's site:
Their salmon is cooked/sterilized in the can. I did not realize that the salmon was not raw, since it was basically chunks of fish, skin and bone. 
BBQing for six hours until it reached 140 was totally unnecessary. Although it was starting to lose shape around 104F, when I checked on it.


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## msmofet

Just an idea probably not a very good one BUT how about adding some dried shrimp to the mix (like the tiny ones used in some shrimp rolls). Would they help absorb some of the moisture?


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## pacanis

I never knew something such as that existed, MSM. Something that reconstitutes could certainly help.


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## msmofet

pacanis said:


> I never knew something such as that existed, MSM. Something that reconstitutes could certainly help.


 I just googled dried shrimp here is the search result link >>> dried shrimp - Google Search


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## love2"Q"

nice start ... seems like you might need some fat ... which is what i think helps the sausage fatties hold their shape .. also .. since you really dont need any muscles or tissue to break down then maybe go way higher on the temps ..


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## pacanis

love2"Q" said:


> nice start ... seems like you might need some fat ... which is what i think helps the sausage fatties hold their shape .. also .. since you really dont need any muscles or tissue to break down then maybe go way higher on the temps ..


 
Thanks for your input.
Yeah, I think I got totally misconstrued on my temps, thinking that I was working with raw salmon, so going with temps recommended for smoking salmon. Normal smoking temps might have given it a crust before it started to flatten out.
There's always next time. It was tasty stuff to find other uses for.


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## Rocklobster

Ever consider a breadcrumb coating? May give it some support, absorb some moisture, or make an even bigger mess.


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## pacanis

Rocklobster said:


> Ever consider a breadcrumb coating? May give it some support, absorb some moisture, or make an even bigger mess.


 
I had. And yes.


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## Rocklobster

pacanis said:


> I had. And yes.


 
Ahhh, yes. Of course. I read back and saw that you had crumbs on it already. Sorry about that. Only one eye open this morning.


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## pacanis

I didn't actually roll it in crumbs though. That might help it crust up.
Definitely adding more crumbs and egg next time though.


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## Rocklobster

pacanis said:


> I didn't actually roll it in crumbs though. That might help it crust up.
> Definitely adding more crumbs and egg next time though.


 
Semolina makes a sturdy crust.


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## GrillingFool

How about using nori.... sushi wrap... around the outside, with some kitchen twine
wrapped around it all?


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## pacanis

I think it still would need firmed up, GF. I really think extra bread crumbs is the key, something to absorb the moisture.
If you have the stuff though, give it a try and let us know.


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## msmofet

pacanis said:


> I think it still would need firmed up, GF. I really think extra bread crumbs is the key, something to absorb the moisture.
> If you have the stuff though, give it a try and let us know.


You should give these a try:

Dried shrimp - 3 oz: Amazon.com: Grocery & Gourmet Food

*Dried shrimp - 3 oz*
Price:$5.89 
*In Stock.*

*Product Description*



Small, sun dried shrimps are used as in various Thai recipes, most notably Miang Kham, Pad Thai and Green Mango with Sweet Fish Sauce. Store in a cool dry place. For certain recipes, you should soak in hot water for 15 minutes before using. Approximately 400 small dried shrimp per 4 oz package. Ingredients: shrimp, salt, artificial color. Product of Taiwan.


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## pacanis

hmmm... maybe those would work without soaking... maybe they would help absorb the moister from the salmon as they reconstitute. 
You have given me an idea, for good or for bad ;^)


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## msmofet

pacanis said:


> hmmm... maybe those would work without soaking... maybe they would help absorb the moister from the salmon as they reconstitute.
> You have given me an idea, for good or for bad ;^)


 Yes I think they would help with the moisture problem.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

TVP would help as well, but would need to be used sparingly to avoid altering the flavor of your fattie.  Other, fairly neutral  binders include qinoa, farina, steel cut oats, barley, raw egg, and cracker crumbs.  I like using farina as a binder because it is so bland and doesn't change the flavor of the food very much.

TVP takes on the texture of the fat granules in breakfast sausage, and also absorbs flavor from what it's cooked with.  But it does add an unpleasant flavor if too much is used.

Hope this helps.

Seeeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## pacanis

Goodweed of the North said:


> TVP would help as well, but would need to be used sparingly to avoid altering the flavor of your fattie. Other, fairly neutral binders include qinoa, farina, steel cut oats, barley, raw egg, and cracker crumbs. I like using farina as a binder because it is so bland and doesn't change the flavor of the food very much.
> 
> TVP takes on the texture of the fat granules in breakfast sausage, and also absorbs flavor from what it's cooked with. But it does add an unpleasant flavor if too much is used.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Seeeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


 
It will help if you tell me what TVP is (stands for)


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## FrankZ

pacanis said:


> It will help if you tell me what TVP is (stands for)




Textured Vegetable Protein.


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## pacanis

FrankZ said:


> Textured Vegetable Protein.


 
That sounds so... so... medicinal


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## PrincessFiona60

pacanis said:


> It will help if you tell me what TVP is (stands for)



<whispers> it's not bacon...


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## Andy M.

TVP!  Yummo!


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## Dawgluver

Key ingredient in concrete and pool cleaner.  Oh, wait, that's TSP.  Probably wouldn't taste as good.


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## pacanis

Tri Sodium Phosphate. Now _that _acronym I know 

And Andy, did you just have a Rachel Ray moment?


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

TVPstands for textured vegetable protein, and is similar to gluten and is made from soy beans.  It has a texture very similar to chicken and can be purchased granulated and in bite-sized chunks.  It's used as a nutritious filler in the convenience store burritoes, mixed in with ground beef, in chili, and other such applications.  To much and it will alter the flavor of what you're cooking.  But it will help bind foods and add texture and nutrition to the foods it's added to.  Some people love using it, and some hate the stuff.  You have to just try it and see if you like it.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## pacanis

Thatnks for the definition, GW, you saved me from Googling it.
Where is it generally found in the supermarket?


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## Aunt Bea

Soylent green


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## pacanis

Aunt Bea said:


> Soylent green


 
In the same aisle as the Soylent Green?
Gotcha!


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## PrincessFiona60

Aunt Bea said:


> Soylent green



No, No...Soylent Green is People!!


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

PrincessFiona60 said:


> No, No...Soylent Green is People!!



We had a thread last year, where one of our DC members was going to an SF party, or something like that, and was taking food.  He wanted to know how to make something that would be like eating Soylent Green.  I did a bit of research and with the help of some other DC wizards, found that cannibals used to refer to their victims as long pigs.  Evidently, people taste like pork, or so it would seem.  So, I whipped up a recipe, using pork, green food dye, and flour to make a Soylent Green type pattie for the man.  I thought it was a both fun and disturbing at the same time.  Maybe that ought to be our next DC Challenge, to make edible Soylent Green, or at least Sci-fi foods.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## PrincessFiona60

Goodweed of the North said:


> We had a thread last year, where one of our DC members was going to an SF party, or something like that, and was taking food.  He wanted to know how to make something that would be like eating Soylent Green.  I did a bit of research and with the help of some other DC wizards, found that cannibals used to refer to their victims as long pigs.  Evidently, people taste like pork, or so it would seem.  So, I whipped up a recipe, using pork, green food dye, and flour to make a Soylent Green type pattie for the man.  I thought it was a both fun and disturbing at the same time.  Maybe that ought to be our next DC Challenge, to make edible Soylent Green, or at least Sci-fi foods.
> 
> Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North
> Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North



We would end up with another version of the Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster.  But it would be fun.


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## pacanis

Sci-Fi foods... Luca could use those metal cutters he got and make the colored cubes and triangles they were always eating on Star Trek.


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## Aunt Bea

I am glad that people taste like pork!

Everything else in the world, it seems, tastes like chicken!

Who you callin, Fatty?


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## DaveSoMD

pacanis said:


> Sci-Fi foods... Luca could use those metal cutters he got and make the colored cubes and triangles they were always eating on Star Trek.





PrincessFiona60 said:


> We would end up with another version of the Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster.  But it would be fun.



I could go for some Breen!!!


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

DaveSoMD said:


> I could go for some Breen!!!



Ok; I'll bite, but only if it's good.  What's breen?

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Andy M.

People taste like pork?  I want Kevin Bacon!


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## Dawgluver

Andy M. said:
			
		

> People taste like pork?  I want Kevin Bacon!



Lol!  Does SO know?


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## pacanis

Yeah, that could be taken so many wrong ways... uhh, not that there's anything wrong with that 

We know you just wanted to say BACON!


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## Dawgluver

pacanis said:
			
		

> Yeah, that could be taken so many wrong ways... uhh, not that there's anything wrong with that
> 
> We know you just wanted to say BACON!



Mebbe, mebbe not.  Who are we to question?  We love Kevin Bacon!  Seven degrees!


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## PrincessFiona60

Back to what is Breen?


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## Dawgluver

PrincessFiona60 said:
			
		

> Back to what is Breen?



Star Trek folk.  Special population.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Breen


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## Andy M.

Who isn't crazy about bacon?????

Bacon


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## PrincessFiona60

Dawgluver said:


> Star Trek folk.  Special population.
> 
> Breen - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki



Ah!  DS9.   I rarely watched that one.


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## msmofet

PrincessFiona60 said:


> Ah! DS9. I rarely watched that one.


 I LOVED Captain Sisco. Avery Brooks has a fantastic singing voice.

Vic Fontaine/Benjamin Sisko - The Best Is Yet To Come - YouTube


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## DaveSoMD

PrincessFiona60 said:


> Back to what is Breen?


I guess that was too obscure of a reference.....

In the SiFi world of Babylon 5,  breen is a Narn dish made famous by the charcter G'Kar...

_Na'Kal_:   Breen! You've managed to import breen from Homeworld! How? 
_G'Kar_:   It, uh - isn't actually breen. 
_Na'Kal_:   The smell! The taste... 
_G'Kar_:    It's an Earth food. They are called Swedish meatballs. It's a strange  thing, but every sentient race has its own version of these Swedish  meatballs! I suspect it's one of those great universal mysteries which  will either never be explained, or which would drive you mad if you ever  learned the truth. 

The whole Swedish meatball thing become sort if a running joke  through line in the series and the movies....


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## PrincessFiona60

I guess I hadn't noticed it in the movies.


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## DaveSoMD

PrincessFiona60 said:


> I guess I hadn't noticed it in the movies.



I know it comes up in The Legend of the Rangers.. I can't remember which others.


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## Andy M.

DaveSoMD said:


> I guess that was too obscure of a reference.........




Way too obscure, I thought it was a kind of fish.


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## Dawgluver

Andy M. said:
			
		

> Way too obscure, I thought it was a kind of fish.



Me too.  I think that's bream.


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## pacanis

Kind of fish here, too...
Krill is filtered through baleen, so it seemed likely breen belonged in there somewhere ;^)


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## Andy M.

pacanis said:


> Kind of fish here, too...
> Krill is filtered through baleen, so it seemed likely breen belonged in there somewhere ;^)



Perfectly logical!


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## Dawgluver

Andy M. said:
			
		

> Perfectly logical!



Breen me up, Scottie!


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## pacanis

Dawgluver said:


> Breen me up, Scottie!


 

This thread breens back memories


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## Dawgluver

pacanis said:
			
		

> This thread breens back memories



"I'll be breening you In all the old familar places....". Who sang that?  Ah, Billie Holliday.


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