# Struggling with cookware



## AnfG (Feb 1, 2017)

Hi Guys, 

New to the forum, looking forward to be coming active on all threads .

So I had a look through the forum and didn't find an answer to my conundrum. 

So I bought a new Esteele S/S Copper cookware set and I'm having trouble with cleaning and maintenance. I've used baking soda and vinegar to try clean the pan and sauté pan and also bar keepers friend but I just can't get it totally clean and shinny. See attached photos.  

Now some people have said to me maybe the heat is too high and that's why this happens all the time but I don't cook more than medium high.  Only put it to high to heat the pan then drop the temperature. 

Appreciate any assistance on this. 

Cheers! 
Thanks guys and girls!


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## Andy M. (Feb 1, 2017)

Hi, welcome to D.C.  You were cooking with oil over high heat. That's why some of the oil made those stains. It ain't easy but barkeepers friend and a scrub sponge is the way to go. It takes some scrubbing. 

Not everything you cook will cause this but it will happen in high heat situations.


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## AnfG (Feb 2, 2017)

Andy M. said:


> Hi, welcome to D.C. You were cooking with oil over high heat. That's why some of the oil made those stains. It ain't easy but barkeepers friend and a scrub sponge is the way to go. It takes some scrubbing.
> 
> Not everything you cook will cause this but it will happen in high heat situations.


 

Hey Andy, thanks for the help. 

What I don't get is but I'm cooking over too high a heat. When I look at recipes etc it says to cook something on say medium high heat and I follow those instructions. So is it as simple as turning it down or am I missing something? Pardon the ignorance, but this is something that has perplexed me all the time. Perfect example of this I guess would be cooking a steak, even on a medium heat I get this. 

THanks!


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## medtran49 (Feb 2, 2017)

Every stove has slightly different heat levels.  You have to learn your stove.  Different cookwares perform differently.  The thicker the material, generally the better and more even heat distribution you have.  When you get new cookware, you will have a learning curve until you figure out the correct temps to use.  If things are burning, cooking too fast, etc. on your stove compared to what recipes say, then, yes, simply turn down the heat a bit.  

With that said, Esteele seems to have very good customer service.  They would probably be the best people to ask for suggestions on how to avoid your problem and how best to clean it.  They may also be able to give you tips on using the cookware and shorten your learning curve time.


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## AnfG (Feb 2, 2017)

medtran49 said:


> Every stove has slightly different heat levels.  You have to learn your stove.  Different cookwares perform differently.  The thicker the material, generally the better and more even heat distribution you have.  When you get new cookware, you will have a learning curve until you figure out the correct temps to use.  If things are burning, cooking too fast, etc. on your stove compared to what recipes say, then, yes, simply turn down the heat a bit.
> 
> With that said, Esteele seems to have very good customer service.  They would probably be the best people to ask for suggestions on how to avoid your problem and how best to clean it.  They may also be able to give you tips on using the cookware and shorten your learning curve time.



Hey Medtran, 

Thanks for the information definitely made things clear and yeh I'll probably hit up esteele direct also. 

Cheers


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## caseydog (Mar 22, 2017)

I love my all-clad tri-ply stainless sauce pans. I did not like my all-clad try-ply stainless skillets, for the same reason you are having difficulty with yours. It is high maintenance for a skillet, in my opinion. Others here will challenge me on that, but I calls 'em as I sees 'em. 

For searing a steak, you need high heat. I use cast iron for that, and I can clean the cast iron pan by putting some water in it and bringing it to a boil, and wiping it out with some paper towels. I don't need any soap. With my old all-clad skillets, I had to scrub just to get the skillet mostly nice looking. 

The other thing I'd offer is that your pans, if you actually use them a lot, are never, ever going to look as good as the day you bought them. So, getting the pans clean is one thing, getting them shinny is another. 

To get that brown crud out of your pans, I'd try a good soaking with dish soap and water, to see if that softens the crud up. You can also get the ScotchBrite for non-stick pans, that is abrasive, but not as hard on your shine. 

CD


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## Andy M. (Mar 22, 2017)

caseydog said:


> I love my all-clad tri-ply stainless sauce pans. I did not like my all-clad try-ply stainless skillets, for the same reason you are having difficulty with yours. It is high maintenance for a skillet, in my opinion. Others here will challenge me on that, but I calls 'em as I sees 'em.
> 
> For searing a steak, you need high heat. I use cast iron for that, and I can clean the cast iron pan by putting some water in it and bringing it to a boil, and wiping it out with some paper towels. I don't need any soap. With my old all-clad skillets, I had to scrub just to get the skillet mostly nice looking...




When you season a cast iron pan, the oil is heated to a high enough temperature to convert the oil into a tough, slippery, waterproof coating.  This coating builds up over time to give you a beautifully seasoned pan that will serve you well for life.  

When you do the same kind of high heat cooking with a stainless steel skillet such as an All-Clad, the oil does the same thing.  It coats the pan surface.  The difference is that you can see it on the SS pan but not on the CI pan.

When you clean a CI pan, you are not removing the oil that's the same as the brown spots on a SS pan, you're removing surface soil that's incidental to cooking - food particles, liquid oil residue, etc. So it's still there but it's OK because you can't see it.


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## Steve Kroll (Mar 23, 2017)

caseydog said:


> I love my all-clad tri-ply stainless sauce pans. I did not like my all-clad try-ply stainless skillets, for the same reason you are having difficulty with yours. It is high maintenance for a skillet, in my opinion. Others here will challenge me on that, but I calls 'em as I sees 'em.


My two cents. In my opinion, SS is by far the most challenging of all cookware to use properly. Well, maybe second to copper. 

I've made everything in mine from eggs to steak to fish, and it will work just as well as any other pan for many foods, but there is definitively a learning curve. A few tips I've found along the way:


Don't use high, or even medium high, heat. Medium-low to medium heat works fine for almost everything you'll want to cook in stainless.
It isn't cast iron, so don't treat it like a cast iron pan. If you use too high of heat, you may ruin it permanently.
Season your pan with a very light coat of oil over medium heat before the first use. And after every use, do the same before putting it away.
Bar Keeper's Friend is your best friend for cleaning SS. It will clean up most everything that has stuck, unless it's really burnt on.
Always preheat SS for several minutes before adding your oil. Adding food to a stainless pan that's too cold is a recipe for stickage.

In a nutshell, stainless isn't totally different from cast iron in how you treat it. The biggest difference is that it won't handle high heat nearly as well. For that reason, SS wouldn't be my first choice for cooking a steak. 

It does have its strengths, though. For example, if you're cooking something with wine, tomatoes, vinegar, or other acidic liquids, stainless is a much better choice than CI. And if you're making a dish that requires deglazing the pan, stainless works better than anything else out there. Pour some wine or stock into a hot SS pan after searing meat, and it will readily release the fond into the liquid. That fond will also usually have better flavor, since it's less likely to be burnt, or contain bits of flaked off seasoning, as might occur in other types of pans. SS is my absolute "go to" pan for making chili or stew for this very reason. Yeah, I know there are hardcore people who won't make chili in anything but CI, but I prefer stainless any day for something like that.


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## RPCookin (Mar 23, 2017)

Not refuting Steve, but I treat my SS pans differently.  I don't try to season them.  Like him, I rarely raise the heat more than medium when there is food in the pan.  meats don't stick, or if they do it's only briefly.  Browning doesn't always require a dark sear, so medium to medium high heat is just not necessary for most things.  

I do pan fry steaks occasionally when I want to make a pan sauce, but I don't use high heat for that either.   I use medium heat, and turn the meat several times, 2 minute per side per turn, and controlled with a Thermapen instant read thermometer.  I can get a good crust on a medium rare steak and have plenty of fond to incorporate into my sauce without excess heat.

The outside of my pans aren't pristine, but I keep the insides looking good.  If I do by chance get something that's too hard to scour, I will heat the pan a bit then pour in water just as if deglazing, and it usually takes most of the residue off with just a little rubbing with a wooden spoon.


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## Just Cooking (Mar 23, 2017)

Wish I'd had DC and this tread when I first bought my Cuisinart SS pan.. 

My first try was a disaster as 99% of my cooking is with CI.. Took me a while to learn to use the SS but, love it now...


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## Mad Cook (Mar 23, 2017)

Andy M. said:


> Hi, welcome to D.C.  You were cooking with oil over high heat. That's why some of the oil made those stains. It ain't easy but barkeepers friend and a scrub sponge is the way to go. It takes some scrubbing.
> 
> Not everything you cook will cause this but it will happen in high heat situations.


"Steel wool", perhaps (like Brillo Pads but without the pink soap).


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## GotGarlic (Mar 23, 2017)

Same here, although I do use a cast iron skillet for steaks on the stove. I don't see any reason to season stainless steel.


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## tenspeed (Mar 23, 2017)

carihall said:


> According to Ray Peat, there are two main types of stainless steel, magnetic and nonmagnetic. The nonmagnetic form has a very high nickel content, and nickel is allergenic and carcinogenic. It is much more toxic than iron or aluminum. You can use a little “refrigerator magnet” to test your pans. The magnet will stick firmly to the safer type of pan.


  I think you have this backwards.  "Food grade" stainless is either type 304 or 316 stainless steel, with 304 being the most commonly used in cookware.  300 series stainless steels contains nickel and are non-magnetic.  400 series stainless does not contain nickel and is magnetic.  400 series stainless steels are not as corrosion resistant as 300 series so are not generally used for cookware.

  Google "food grade stainless" for further information.


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## GotGarlic (Mar 23, 2017)

carihall said:


> The nonmagnetic form has a very high nickel content, and nickel is allergenic and carcinogenic. It is much more toxic than iron or aluminum.



Are you saying that a cast iron pan is toxic to use? Sorry, that is not true. A negligible amount of iron could be transferred into food by using cast iron, but it's an essential nutrient - it's not toxic in normal doses except for people who suffer from hemochromatosis, which is fairly rare. 

Normal use of aluminum is not toxic, either. Toxicity depends on exposure and dose. A tiny bit of X is fine, while a huge dose of anything, including water, can be toxic.


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## Andy M. (Mar 23, 2017)

According to the All-Clad website, their stainless line is made from 18/10 stainless steel and is magnetic (compatible with induction cooktops).


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## Steve Kroll (Mar 23, 2017)

RPCookin said:


> Not refuting Steve, but I treat my SS pans differently.  I don't try to season them.


I should clarify. When I say "season" stainless, I don't mean in the same way as you would season a cast iron or carbon steel pan. With those pans, you typically use very high heat to polymerize several coats of oil onto the surface of the pan. 

What I do to prepare an SS pan for first time use is a little different. First, I give it a good cleaning, then I set it over a medium heat burner to gently warm the pan. Once heated, I rub some cooking oil into the surface with a paper towel. I then set it off the heat and, once it's cooled, wipe out any remaining oil. When finished, you shouldn't see any residual oil on the surface.

For the most part, I don't like to use soap on my pans (with the exception of Teflon or enameled cast iron) if it isn't needed. Usually, I can just wipe it down good with a paper towel, and it's ready to go for next time. If I do have to scrub an SS pan with soap, I go through the oiling process again before putting it away.

I actually picked up this trick from Le Creuset. It's what they recommend for their SS pans, and it really does help to prevent food from sticking, provided you're also using the pans correctly. I've had no problem at all cooking omelets and fish in SS pans without stuff sticking (but it's still not my favorite kind of pan for those applications).

I'm struggling to find a better word than "season," though. Maybe "conditioning?"


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## tenspeed (Mar 23, 2017)

Andy M. said:


> According to the All-Clad website, their stainless line is made from 18/10 stainless steel and is magnetic (compatible with induction cooktops).


  18/10 is 18% chromium 10% nickel, so it's a 300 series stainless.  My understanding is that induction ready stainless must have a 18/0 (400 series) magnetic cladding layer or disc.  I believe that All-Clad has a 304 layer on the inside and a 400 series layer on the outside, but not positive.


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## tenspeed (Mar 24, 2017)

I took a magnet to my All-Clad fry pan.  Definitely stronger attraction to the outside of the pan, especially the base.  The sides are relatively thin, so the attraction is weaker.


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