# ISO Smoked Pork Shoulder rec for Saturday



## Jeekinz (Jun 12, 2007)

So I've got this pork butt.  Would be my first attempt smoking one.  I pulled a recipie from here: Barbecuebible.com :: View topic - Boston Butt FAQ

Any other ideas?  Tips?


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## Andy M. (Jun 12, 2007)

Check out these three threads for a lot of good info.

HERE

AND HERE

AND HERE


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## kitchenelf (Jun 12, 2007)

My first thought when reading your link is bypass the finished cooking time for slicing and definitely go straight for the 200 - 210 degree mark for pulling.  You won't be sorry!  I probably do mine the most simple of anyone and it turns out great every time.  Rub down with salt, pepper, olive oil.  I'm not a huge fan of rubs because I want the natural flavor from the meat and the hickory smoke.  My other flavors will come from my cider-based sauces or a thinner tomato-based sauce.  I put apple juice in my water pan and it DOES make a difference - it's great!  

The next time I do a pork butt I may play with a brine. 

Just make sure you smoke fat side up - don't peak too much or you will slow the cooking process down.  And don't over smoke - whatever smoking chunks I put on I only replace them a couple times before I just add more hardwood briquetts only to keep the temp up.  

Also - use Hickory CHUNKS - chips just don't produce enough flavor.  I get my chunks at Lowe's or Home Depot.  I've tried mesquite but Hickory gives the best flavor to a pork butt.

I also have a slaw recipe and a couple bbq sauce recipes if you want them.


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## Jeekinz (Jun 12, 2007)

A coupla questions.  Some of those cooking times vary tremendously as noted in the top link Andy provided, and the link I found.  Can I start the butt in the oven, let's say 250 deg at 6am for 3 hrs, transfer to smoker, indirect method at 225 for 8 hours?  This would give me a finish time around 5pm and a totla cooking time of 11 hrs.

I would use some oak first, then a bag of Hickory chunk.  Spray with mop every 30-45 minutes.

I agree with your method "less is more" and will try the apple juice.


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## Andy M. (Jun 12, 2007)

If possible, I would do the smoking first and finish it in the oven.  So the answer is yes, you can.


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## kitchenelf (Jun 12, 2007)

Why wouldn't you just do it in the smoker for the whole 11 hours?  

A "bag" of Hickory chunks would be waaay too much smoke.  If you use maybe 6 chunks of Oak at first I would do another 6 or so chunks of Hickory and then that's all or maybe a few more the next time you add some hardwood briquettes.  But much more than that and you will have a bitter taste.

Just be sure to soak your wood chunks for at least 30 minutes before adding to your hot coals.

Maybe someone else can answer this but I don't know how pre-cooking in the oven affects the smoke penetration.  Would the outside already be somewhat sealed and prevent smoke penetration?  It's probably a dumb question but it crossed my mind.

Edited to add:  Be sure and give enough time for this chunk of meat to rest for at least 30 minutes.


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## kitchenelf (Jun 12, 2007)

How many pounds is your pork butt Jeekinz?


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## Jeekinz (Jun 12, 2007)

I just glanced at it in the freezer after the DW brought it home. Looks to be 6 1/2 lbs. I'll check tonight.

I have lump charchoal and wood chunk for fuel. Not an electric smoker.  I may "annoy" the neighborhood firing up the smoker at 6am.


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## kitchenelf (Jun 12, 2007)

Lump and wood is fine (I believe it's lump for the long lasting issue and wood for the higher burning temp? - is that right Andy M?) - just be sure to have about 3 or 4 bags on hand, along with your wood chunks you will be using.  I would plan on no less than 11 hours cooking time and bring it to 200° finished temperature if you can - at least in the 190's is better than nothing.

I used to have an electric smoker and while I loved it because I could leave and go do things I do like my "regular" smoker better!  It makes one heck of a Thanksgiving turkey!!!


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## Andy M. (Jun 12, 2007)

Not sure what you're asking...

I believe lump burns hotter and faster than briquettes.  I would also expect it to burn hotter than wood, but there are several factors that effect the result.  The size of the wood pieces, the type of wood, how dry it is and how much you use.  

If the wood is just for the smoke, you would be using small chunks soaked in water to slow the burn and make smoke.  The charcoal would provide the fuel and the wood would provide the smoke.

If you are intending to use hardood logs for heat, they need to be dry.  Logs will last longer than the lump.


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## Jeekinz (Jun 12, 2007)

I read that soaking is unnescessary, even soaked overnight.


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## Andy M. (Jun 12, 2007)

You get more smoke for longer if you soak.


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## kitchenelf (Jun 12, 2007)

Jeekinz said:
			
		

> I read that soaking is unnescessary, even soaked overnight.



I was always under the impression that soaking for about 30 minutes helped them smolder and smoke versus just burning when added to the hot coals.  I could be wrong - someone else can chime in here.  I'm not a believer in much more than 30 minutes though - only so much water can soak into wood.


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## Jeekinz (Jun 12, 2007)

All About Smoke Woods - The Virtual Weber Bullet

About 1/4 of the way down the page.

This is why it gets so confusing.  One read contradicts another.....and another.  I'm jumping in head first, we'll see what happens.


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## Andy M. (Jun 12, 2007)

Try not soaking and track the results.  Another time, try soaking and compare.


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## Uncle Bob (Jun 12, 2007)

Jeekinz
 
I hesitate to comment due to your already information overload, but I will offer some suggestions.
 
First, make up your mind if you want to BBQ the pork butt, or cook it in the oven.
Either way with proper cooking methods you can produce an excellent product.
However; if you have just gotta do it both ways. Start on your bbq cooker, and then go inside. But why do that? Ya have already got the cooker going!
 
To soak or not to soak (flavoring wood) is a debate that has gone on for years at both amateur and professional levels, and will continue for several more years I am certain. Either will work if the pit master has control of his fire! So, for us back yard chefs to make it simple do this: Wrap your flavoring wood (chips or chunks) in aluminum foil, poke a few small holes in it and lay it on your coals. The wood will produce smoke, and not flame out due to lack of oxygen. You will get plenty of smoke, use less wood, and not cause temperature spikes due to flaming of your flavoring wood. 
 
How long to cook it?? Until it’s done! Take your wrist watch off, and turn your clocks around backwards. Get yourself a thermometer. When it reaches 185*190* it’s done.
Take it off and let it rest until drops down to around 150*. Put on some rubber gloves and pull it. 
 
Start with room temperature meat. Have your cooker stabilized at around 215* 225* at the cooking surface. (A simple oven thermometer for 10 bucks works great) Start your cook, set back and relax, sip on your favorite beverage, tell your wife she’s pretty, pat your dog on the head. The object is to have fun and….
 
Enjoy!
 
 
More later………


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## Uncle Bob (Jun 12, 2007)

Jeekinz...

A couple more suggestions.
 
There are as many opinions about fuel sources etc, as there are people who visit this forum. Most would agree (all things considered) that lump coal burns hotter and faster than briquettes, and that briquettes burn somewhat longer. Others would argue than pure wood coals (not flaming wood) are best. Where a long cook is planned in the case of a pork butt, I suggest you use briquettes as your primary source of heat started in a charcoal chimney. Any additional briquettes added during the cook need to be started in the same manner. Lump coal can be added directly to the fire. Its pure charcoal with no additives, binders etc. that can affect food taste. The only wood needed is the flavoring wood as I described earlier. If you choose to use wood coals then you will need two fires. One made of coals (not flaming wood) in the cooker. The other fire burning separately produces hot coals to replenish your cooker (coals) fire.  I love food cooked with pure hardwood coals
But it is a lot of hard work. The simplest, easiest method is briquettes and flavoring wood! 
 
How much smoke? The unfortunate misuse of this word has lead to many, many good pieces of good meat being ruined! Meat cooked for hours (briskets, pork butts, etc) can easily take on to much smoke. I suggest you start with as little smoke as possible. Gradually you can add more on subsequent cooks to achieve your and your family’s personal taste. Hopefully sooner rather than later you will discover that over smoked, blackened meat does not taste good! A couple of hours or less of light smoke at the onset of the cook is plenty. More than this and you run the risk of producing a piece of meat that is reminiscent of a black cast iron pot, rather than a nice golden/amber piece of BBQed meat.
 
The bottom line is, for amateur cooks like us, use briquettes and small amounts of flavoring woods when doing a long cook. Your wife will love you for it, and you kids want have to order out pizza. Good Luck!
 
Have fun, and Enjoy!


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## love2"Q" (Jun 12, 2007)

lots of good info ...
butts are hard to do wrong as long as you keep it low and slow ..
good luck


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## Jeekinz (Jun 12, 2007)

Uncle Bob,

Your second post has answered, and confirmed, many questions....and your post makes total sense. However, the briquette method you describe, would that be over direct or indirect cooking? Can I use the briquettes in the side fire box or offset in the main grill area? Lastly, if I were to use 100% wood coals, and having a second fire to prepare them, what would you recommend I use as a housing for it? I could use my fireplace but I would be heating up the house at the same time...doh!

Are you familliar with the Minion Method of grilling? Any tips?

I agree, I'll leave it in the smoker. Thanks, Uncle B.


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## FletcherNC (Jun 13, 2007)

Do what Andy said. Smoke for 4 hours at 225-250* (no higher at any point in the cooking sequence!!)  and then finish in the oven. There is plenty of smoke in that amount of time--even too much. Then finish for about 6 hours in the oven at 250* (because the "real" temp in the smoker was probably not all the way up to 250*). 
It is easier to do this without all the hassle of keeping a fire going. The end result will be just as good--crusty, brown, succulent.
Be careful not to use an actively burning wood or charcoal. It needs to be embers/coals. Actively burning wood will give off an acrid smoke.
If using wood, start it in another container and shovel in the coals


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## AllenOK (Jun 13, 2007)

Jeekinz, if you go with the second "feeder" fire to produce wood coals, you can keep the second fire in an older grill, if you have one.


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## Uncle Bob (Jun 13, 2007)

Jeekinz….
 
To your original question, cooking a pork butt, the use of briquettes as I described above refers to indirect heat. Direct heat is grilling, steaks chops, burgers, etc. Indirect heat refers to BBQing the “low and slow” method used for pork shoulders, butts, briskets, and various fowl etc. The off-set cookers are designed for one to build the fire in the fire box. With the remainder of the cooker used a “cooking chamber” If your question also poses can you build your fire inside, and on the right of the cooking chamber and place your meat/fowl on the left side the simple answer is yes. This would qualify as “indirect” cooking. Not what your cooker was primarily engineered for, but would work. 
Should you choose to use pure hardwood coals as your heat source, your second fire (to produce coals) can simply be built on the ground inside some type of fire ring, bricks, or concrete blocks etc. (Caution! Do not use stones that possibly could have moisture trapped inside they may explode!!) You would also need to check local fire codes to see if this type of (outside) fire is permissible in your jurisdiction. Not to mention what your sweet wife would think of a burned spot in the back yard. There are also patio fire place “things” that could be used. In the end this method is a lot of hard work. So, again the simplest, easiest method is charcoal + flavoring wood. 
 
Your last question, “Am I familiar with the Minion Method of “grilling”? I am not sure I understand your question. If you are asking me how Jim grills steaks, chops etc. I could only comment by saying he is an excellent, professional, and knowledgeable pit master, and I would not hesitate to eat/enjoy any foods that he grilled/BBQed etc. If your question refers to the Minion Method of fire building/control etc, it is a widely accepted method that enjoys a large following. I have used it with excellent results many times. 
 
 
Have fun!


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## Jeekinz (Jun 13, 2007)

Thank you for all the great tips. Let's see what happens.


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## kitchenelf (Jun 13, 2007)

FletcherNC said:
			
		

> Do what Andy said. Smoke for 4 hours at 225-250* (no higher at any point in the cooking sequence!!)  and then finish in the oven. There is plenty of smoke in that amount of time--even too much. Then finish for about 6 hours in the oven at 250* (because the "real" temp in the smoker was probably not all the way up to 250*).
> It is easier to do this without all the hassle of keeping a fire going. The end result will be just as good--crusty, brown, succulent.
> Be careful not to use an actively burning wood or charcoal. It needs to be embers/coals. Actively burning wood will give off an acrid smoke.
> If using wood, start it in another container and shovel in the coals



Too much smoke?  Really?  How come most everyone cooks the total amount of time in a smoker/grill with offset box and things turn out just fine?  Prizes are won, competitions are won, accolades all around, and not one oven was used!  

Just use briquettes to cook with, or lump hardwood, use no more wood smoking chunks.  I've cooked a pork shoulder for 18 hours, I've cooked a 24-lb. turkey for 22 hours, both in a smoker, without any problem of them being over-smoked.


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## Uncle Bob (Jun 13, 2007)

In support of what Miss Elf says. It is not the BBQ appliance, nor the long duration of the cooking time that causes over smoked meats, but rather the use of to much flavoring wood causing excessive smoke. 

An anology might be, It is not the bow and arrow, but rather the Indain shooting it that makes the difference.




(Miss Elf if this ain't what ya meant, please don't send me to the wood shed!)


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## kitchenelf (Jun 13, 2007)

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> In support of what Miss Elf says. It is not the BBQ appliance, nor the long duration of the cooking time that causes over smoked meats, but rather the use of to much flavoring wood causing excessive smoke.
> 
> An anology might be, It is not the bow and arrow, but rather the Indain shooting it that makes the difference.
> 
> ...



LOL - no woodshed for you UB - that is exactly what I meant.


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## Jeekinz (Jun 13, 2007)

I leaned that the first time I smoked a rack of ribs.  Waaaay too much Mesquite.


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## Jeekinz (Jun 13, 2007)

BTW, not to confuze matters .  It's a 7.27 lb. picnic.


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## kitchenelf (Jun 13, 2007)

I did the same with a huge hunk of pork butt - It just took a bit of cider-based sauce and thoroughly mixing the outside into the inside while I chopped - whew - it was bitter!


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jun 13, 2007)

VArious woods can be used with pork.  Mesquite isn't quite as bitter as hickory can be.  But hickory only becomes bitter if too much smoke is generated and absorbed into the meat.  Fruit-woods such as apple an cherry produce a less bitter smoke and aren't quite as pungeant as is hickory.  I personally prefer fruitwoods for pork and hickory for fish.  For poultry, I like maple, white birch, white oak, alder, and mesquite.  Each of these woods gives a great flavor without adding any bitterness.

The advantage of hickory is that it is widely available, and has a sharp, tangy flavor that is excellent when used properly.  But for the novice, the fruitwoods are easier to play with.  Even Cedar can be used, though it is much better with fish than with pork.

I sucessfully smoke turkeys, large pork roasts, etc., on a Webber Kettle  Barbecue.  The secret to that device is to control the amount of air getting to thte fire.  I also use large disks of the flavoing wood, pre-soaked, and placed directly on a divided bed of coals to help insulate the meat from the direct heat of the charcoal.  It burns slow and long.  Temperature regulation is achieved strictly by use of the air vents, either starving the fire, or allowing a full rush of air to the fuel.

rubs and mops containing a lot of sugar will burn before the meat is done.  So if you are using a rub or mopping sauce, keep the sugar to a minimum.  If you are using a sauce loaded with sugar, brown, white, honey, etc., use it as a finishing sauce for the last ten minutes or so of cooking time.

As was said previously, use a meat thermometer and forget about time.  When the temperature is right, the meat is done.  Cook it too long and you take the chance of overcooking and turning the meat into something dry, and very tough.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North

Use what you have.  Just add a bit of sense to the equipment and you will do great.


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## Uncle Bob (Jun 13, 2007)

Jeekinz said:
			
		

> BTW, not to confuze matters . It's a 7.27 lb. picnic.


 
Are you saying you have a cured picnic "ham" rather than a fresh pork butt??


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## Jeekinz (Jun 13, 2007)

not cured.


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## kitchenelf (Jun 13, 2007)

Jeekinz said:
			
		

> BTW, not to confuze matters .  It's a 7.27 lb. picnic.



LMAO - If it were me, I would plan on 12 hours.  There's no harm if it doesn't take that long.  A friend of mine SWORE that her method of cooking a turkey would work in 4 hours - I had some grumbling guests after another 4 hours of cooking (oh, and a bit tipsy too)   And I know you know this already - shoot for 200 final temp.  Let rest 20 - 30 minutes.

And those pieces that turn black on the outside?  MMMMMMMMMMM - those are prime picking pieces when it's done!

UB - picnic is just another name for it.


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## AllenOK (Jun 13, 2007)

Uncle Bob, could you enlighten me on the "Minion Method"?  I've never heard of it before.


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## Uncle Bob (Jun 13, 2007)

Picnic another name for what?  A pork butt??  Au Contraire!

While it is true that Pork shoulders, pork butts, and picnics are part and parcel of the front leg and shoulder of a hog they are not actully the same  item. A pork shoulder (the whole thing) is made up of the picnic and the butt. When the top of the shoulder is seperated it becomes a pork butt. What is left is called a picnic or picnic ham as most of them are cured in the same manner as a true ham. Fresh picnics can be BBQed in the same manner as a pork butt. Due to their make up, bone structure etc there is more waste on a fresh picnic however. 

Jeekinz.. If what you have is a fresh (uncured) picnic then I would recommend you remove any, and all skin before cooking. Rubs, basting sauces, finishing sauces, smoke, etc will not penetrate the skin. 

Have fun!


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## Uncle Bob (Jun 13, 2007)

AllenOK said:
			
		

> Uncle Bob, could you enlighten me on the "Minion Method"? I've never heard of it before.


 
It is a process "invented" by the World Renowned Pit Master, and Keeper of the Coals, Jim Minion. In this process, a small amount of lit charcoal is placed in the center of a bed of charcoal allowing the outer charcoal to gradually ignite as the cook progresses. Thus giving you a longer cook time! It is especially valuable in a cooker where adding charcoal during the cook is impractical or impossible. 

Have fun!


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## kitchenelf (Jun 13, 2007)

UB - I do believe all that explanation (pork butt vs. picnic) rings a bell.


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## mudbug (Jun 13, 2007)

HH has smoked lots of shoulders.  I keep the beer cold and make potato salad and change the CDs.

In other words, I'm no expert on the actual pig-fire-time ratio.

But I don't believe HH has ever smoked anything for as long as 11 hours.  For Memorial Day he put a shoulder on the cooker around 1 p.m. and we were eating it by 6.  He usually keeps his temp at 250 though.


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## AllenOK (Jun 13, 2007)

Thanks Uncle Bob!


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## Jeekinz (Jun 14, 2007)

Uncle B,

I picked up 2 20# bags of Kingsford Original. To keep a steady temp of 225-250 about how many coals should I use? Will 2 bags last for 12 hrs? I'm familliar with lump but not briquettes.

Edit - Sorry, I just read your post again....215-225 deg.


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## Uncle Bob (Jun 14, 2007)

Jeekinz said:
			
		

> Uncle B,
> 
> I picked up 2 20# bags of Kingsford Original. To keep a steady temp of 225-250 about how many coals should I use? Will 2 bags last for 12 hrs? I'm familliar with lump but not briquettes.
> 
> Edit - Sorry, I just read your post again....215-225 deg.


 
I would start with 6 or 8 lbs. No more than 10. Let them ash over and get you cooker stablized around 225*. Control you fire/temp by using the adjustable air intake. Leave the "smoke stack" mostly open. Add addtional lit charcoal as needed to maintain the temp. Forget about time! Use a thermometer. When it gets to 185-195 pull it off whether it's 5 hours or 12  hours. Hogs can't tell time anyway! If you are cooking a fresh picnic. Depending you your cooker, your control of the fire, and several other factors that can effect cooking time, you may not even use one bag! 

Good luck, and mostly

Have Fun!!


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