# How do they make chicken so tender?



## callmaker60 (Oct 11, 2014)

When we eat out either at olive garden, macaronni grill, carabba's, and order the chicken, it's always so tender, to where you can almost pull it apart. Are they doing something to the chicken to make it that tender, or is it just the way it's cooked?  Last night my wife had chicken marsalla, and it just fell apart.


----------



## GLC (Oct 11, 2014)

If yours isn't coming out so tender (assuming you're not trying to cook up the old rooster), most tough chicken problems are from inattention to temperature, overcooking. There are two issues. One is making the piece of chick equally thick throughout. Chicken goes from just right to real wrong in a very short time. You're aiming at 160F throughout, but if it's thick in one part and thin in another, you can't get one part right without getting the other underdone or overdone. You get it evenly thick by pounding it, which also somewhat tenderizes. But the main thing is to make it evenly thick.

Then, of course, you have to hit the 160F pretty close, without going over and overcooking it and making it tough. That's the so-called safe temperature for chicken. So you need an accurate meat thermometer. Remove the chicken when it hits 160F internally. Don't just turn the fire off or remove the pan from the stove. 

I don't know how that restaurant operates, but a lot of restaurant cooking is done sous vide, low temperature, in vacuum sealed bags, in a water bath. In sous vide, the reality that tenderness and doneness are entirely different things comes home. You can take a meat, say chicken, to 160F in a sous vide water bath, and it will be done and will never get hotter and so will never get overdone. (You can really see this with beef, where beef in a 125F bath will be medium rare and stay medium rare, even if left in for hours.) 

Tenderness is a matter of cooking time. (Unless the meat is already tender, like filet.) You can make a tough cut tender and still rare by loooong cooking at low temperature. Slow cookers work that way, except that the temperature is so high that all the meat comes out well done. The point is that a restaurant can prep chicken cuts in a sous vide bath well ahead of time. They won't have to pound, either, because the bath will be 160F, and that's as hot as the meat can get. If they want a piece, they fetch it out and use it or put grill marks on it. They just can't leave it in there as long a they do some beef, because it will start to fall apart. But it's very efficient, and it kind of explains some of why you can get a steak so quickly in some places. 

Just a note. Brining, marinating, etc. do not tenderize. Marinades penetrate only a tiny fraction of an inch. Brining uses salt to move water around, and moist is not the same a tender. It's just that people who bother to brine are also generally more careful cooks and done overcook.

All that said, some of the restaurants you named are said to do their cooking from frozen boil-in-bags of precooked food, and they are all in the class of place I would suspect of doing so. This is not sous vide. It's boil-in-bag like you buy in the store. Check Yelp and try a real Italian restaurant near you. Why pay even cut-rate restaurant prices for frozen entrees? The chains simply cannot afford real cooking by real chefs. The Tuscany chef training is an advertising myth. Note that the brand new Italian Garden parent company CEO commented that he knew changes were in order when he learned they didn't salt the water for cooking pasta. He may have misunderstood. They don't need to salt the water if the pasta is precooked in a bag.


----------



## callmaker60 (Oct 11, 2014)

Thanks for taking the time and giving me a very good explanation to my question on chicken.  So I'll watch my temp a lot closer.


----------



## Stock Pot (Oct 11, 2014)

*Yes, brine*

Brining does indeed help with chicken. According to Cook's Illustrated, anyway, who do their research. 

" Brining promotes a change in the structure of the proteins in the muscle. The salt causes protein strands to become denatured, or unwound. This is the same process that occurs when proteins are exposed to heat, acid, or alcohol. When protein strands unwind, they get tangled up with one another, forming a matrix that traps water. "


----------



## buckytom (Oct 12, 2014)

has anyone ever tried to jaccard a piece of chicken, or run it through a tenderizer?


----------



## Andy M. (Oct 12, 2014)

buckytom said:


> has anyone ever tried to jaccard a piece of chicken, or run it through a tenderizer?



 I use a sort of jaccarding tool on flank steak.


----------



## FrankZ (Oct 12, 2014)

You can also use an immersion cooker and set it to 160F and then not have to worry about it overcooking.


----------



## Rocklobster (Oct 12, 2014)

They sell pumped/enhanced chicken. Almost all restaurants do. At my place of work, we sell only fresh , unpumped chicken. It is a lot more expensive. I have used many different chicken breast products in my 30 years in the restaurant business and some were down right hideous. 100% Natural chicken does not fall apart like you have mentioned. The stuff your wife ate has been treated. Here is what they do to most of the chicken you can buy and eat every day...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64aigxVg3lo

It shows and explains the procedure at about 1:30 in, but if you watch the whole thing you will get a better understanding as to why they do it.  As usual, follow the money.


----------



## manilak1d (Oct 12, 2014)

1. Brine over night
2. Cook chicken whole or not fillet
3. Don't over cook


----------



## Caslon (Oct 13, 2014)

What?  noone mentioned buttermilk?


----------



## buckytom (Oct 13, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> I use a sort of jaccarding tool on flank steak.



yup, something like that. i wonder if you can stab a chicken breast to tenderize it like you would a steak, or would it fall apart too easily?

normal pounding with a flat sided meat hammer definitely tenderizes chicken to a degree.


----------



## GotGarlic (Oct 13, 2014)

Caslon said:


> What?  noone mentioned buttermilk?



Modern buttermilk and modern chickens are not the same as those from years ago, so it's no longer true that soaking chicken in buttermilk tenderizes it. Here's more info:

http://www.seriouseats.com/2012/11/diy-how-to-make-cultured-buttermilk.html


----------



## jonifan1 (Oct 13, 2014)

*America's Test Kitchen*

I have a great recipe from America's Test Kitchen that makes the chicken tender each time. Here's the link: Pan-Seared Chicken Breasts Recipe - America's Test Kitchen

ATK usually requires a membership to watch the videos, but I think at least the recipes are available without a membership. I am a member so I've seen the video that goes along with it and it's excellent. The main thing they do is they start the chicken in the oven first at a low temp, ea. side salted and several fork pokes in the thickest part, covered with tin foil, for about 30-40 minutes before pan searing it . There are other particulars that contribute to the tenderness. That's just one of them.


----------



## Chief Longwind Of The North (Oct 13, 2014)

For very tender chicken, cook until it's barely done.  I achieve this through a few techniques.  Here are my favorites.

1 oven-fried chicken.  Dredge chicken in egg wash, and dust with seasoned flour.  Pan fry in three inches of hot oil until just starting to brown.  Place into a 375 degree oven for 40 minutes.  REmove and serve with sides.

2. Stir-fry - Dice chicken into half-inch cubes.  Get your pan screaming hot, add a couple tbs. of cooking oil.  Add chicken cubes.  Stir in pan until lightly browned on all sides.  Serve immediately.

3. Velveted chicken.  Make a marinade of 3 tbs. rice vinegar, 1 tbs. soy sauce, a dash of 5-spice powder, dash of onion powder, dash of garlic powder, 2 dashes cayenne pepper, 3 tbs. water, 1 tsp. cornstarch.  Stir until all is well combined.  Add thin strips of chicken (cut against the grain and pretty thin) with marinade into a plastic sealable bag.  Close and remove as much air as possible.  Massage bag to coat all chicken with marinade.  Chill in the fridge for 20 minutes.  Heat oil to 325 degrees, or bring water to a low boil, then reduce heat until the water is no longer boiling.  Drain the chicken and place in either the hot oil, or water.  Let sit until the coating turns opaque.  Remove and set aside to use in whatever you're making.  The meat is done through, and very tender.

Enjoy.

P.S.  Did you know that geek originally refereed to unlucky performers in circus side shows who were billed as wild men and wild women.  They typically bit the heads off of live chickens and such.  So, eating undercooked poultry would make one a geek.  There may be a few on this site who would qualify for the title.  I'm not pointing at anyone.  Let your imagination be your guide.  And no, I've not eaten such a thing, worms baked in a burning milk carton, yes, undercooked chicken, no.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


----------



## callmaker60 (Oct 13, 2014)

Thanks everyone, you gave me lots of good info.


----------



## Bubbles (Feb 19, 2015)

Took me years to cook perfect chicken.  I invested in a good meat pounder to evenly flatten chicken breasts between saran pieces.  I lightly salt, pepper and salute in heated olive oil.  A good thermometer is also advised - such as Thermapen.  It usually takes about 6 min per side for tender chicken.  You can also lightly flour.
I don't bother pounding boneless skinless thighs.  I throw them in a skillet with heated with a touch of oil.  Add onion wedges, salt & pepper, soy or worcestershire.  Cook gently for about 20 minutes.  Divine!


----------



## Mad Cook (Feb 19, 2015)

callmaker60 said:


> When we eat out either at olive garden, macaronni grill, carabba's, and order the chicken, it's always so tender, to where you can almost pull it apart. Are they doing something to the chicken to make it that tender, or is it just the way it's cooked? Last night my wife had chicken marsalla, and it just fell apart.


The people who breed chickens for the table fatten them up and kill them at what is really only weeks old. In addition, unless you are lucky enough to buy free range chickens, they have been confined in a small area with little room to move about so they never develop strong muscles. Oh yes, and the birds are often injected with water or saline solution after slaughter and preparation in order to make them weigh more so they can charge more. Yes, I know, you thought that was to make the bird tastier or stop it getting dry in the cooking - wrong - it's to get more cash per pound.

Sorry to spoil your dinner if you are reading this while you're eating but it's a fact of life if the consumer wants a cheap, tender chicken


----------



## CarolPa (Feb 23, 2015)

This thread leads right into my question.  If a recipe calls for marinating chicken in buttermilk would I be able to use plain yogurt instead?  If I use buttermilk I would throw away any extra, but would use the leftover yogurt.  Just trying not to be wasteful.


----------



## Selkie (Feb 23, 2015)

Yes, yogurt can be used as a marinade.


----------



## RPCookin (Feb 23, 2015)

CarolPa said:


> This thread leads right into my question.  If a recipe calls for marinating chicken in buttermilk would I be able to use plain yogurt instead?  If I use buttermilk I would throw away any extra, but would use the leftover yogurt.  Just trying not to be wasteful.



Buttermilk is good in some breads and batters.  you can add a packet of Hidden Valley Ranch seasoning and some mayo to it for ranch dressing.  Buttermilk pancakes and waffles are yummy.  Lots of good things to do with leftover buttermilk.

Also, you can make your own buttermilk substitute by adding one tablespoon of white vinegar to 1 cup of milk, then let it sit for 5 minutes.  I did this a lot when we lived in the Bahamas, because no place on our island carried buttermilk.


----------



## CarolPa (Feb 24, 2015)

My mother used to bake a cake that called for sour milk and she used the vinegar in it, but I never thought about that with buttermilk.  Good idea.  I bought a fresh carton on plain yogurt yesterday and am planning to use that for now.  

Thanks


----------



## Selkie (Feb 24, 2015)

I just finished baking four chicken leg quarters this morning, and they are fall-off-the-bone tender and very moist. I used NOTHING on nor with them. In other words I baked them directly out of the grocery store package.
I had placed them in the refrigerator yesterday morning, but they were still partially frozen.
Placing them skin side up onto a wire rack on a cookie sheet, and put them into an oven set at 325F. Set the timer for 30 minutes. At the sound of the timer, flip the leg quarters, set the oven temperature to 450F and start the timer for another 30 minutes. At the sound of the timer, flip the leg quarters for the third time. They should be skin side up. Bake at the same 450F for a final 30 minutes (90 minutes total). Remove from the oven and let cool untouched for about 20 minutes.  Checking with a digital thermometer, the thigh should reach about 200F.
 Serve your perfectly baked chicken.


----------



## CharlieD (Feb 24, 2015)

CarolPa, Buttermilk pancakes are great too.


----------



## Mad Cook (Feb 24, 2015)

CharlieD said:


> CarolPa, Buttermilk pancakes are great too.


 Over here scones used to be made with buttermilk or sour milk but yoghourt is easier to find and has equally good results. I would happily substitute yoghourt for buttermilk in any recipe.


----------



## Caslon (Feb 26, 2015)

I was watching PBS's show  Cook's Kitchen last night and they made some chicken Parmesan.  The cook sprinkled a liberal amount of kosher salt over the filleted boneless chicken breasts to be fried in panko and cheese ,   to soften up the fillet breast meat. After 20 minutes, she  paper toweled off the moisture that had collected and put the coated fillets in hot oil.  I guess a coating of salt for 20 minutes before frying chicken fillets does good things. (?)


----------



## Chief Longwind Of The North (Feb 27, 2015)

I made home made chicken fingers a couple nights back.  I simply deboned breast half, and a thigh.  I sliced the chicken into strips.  I lightly salted it, dipped it in egg wash, then into a zipper bag with seasoned flour.  I let it hang out in the bag for about five minutes, giving the flour a chance to glue itself to the meat.  After that, the meat was removed, a piece at a time, bounced against my fingers to remove excess flour, and placed into 360' oil for deep frying.  By the time the coating was lightly browned, the chicken was cooked through, but not overcooked at all.  It was so tender and juicy that you would swear you'd had an expert in the kitchen.  But it was just me.

I still maintain that you don't need to do much with chicken to get it tender and succulent, other than cook it to the correct temperature.  This has been true for me with fried chicken, chicken fingers, barbecued chicken, grilled chicken, roasted whole chicken, tempura chicken, panko coated chicken, etc.  Oh, and choose a fryer.  It's a young chicken that hasn't yet had a chance to toughen up.  Roasters tend to be older hens that are made for stewing, long roasting, and soups.  They are larger, and can be tough if cooked quickly.

Marinades are acidic.  Acids cause muscle fibers to tighten up, resulting in a tougher outer surface.  The marinade doesn't flavor the inner meat, just its surface.  A brine contains no acidic ingredients, and will flavor the meat all the way through.  A proper brine can also tenderize meat.

There are enzymes in milk and dairy products that will help break down muscle tissue, rendering the proteins more tender.  I use milk sometimes to help tenderize lean pork, or chicken.  Raw pineapple (not cooked or canned) will also tenderize meat, as will papaya, and kiwi.

The things I post are proven methods, that I have learned from others, or by experimentation, and are used in my kitchen every day.  When I don't know something, I ask, try the answers I get, and use the techniques that work.  Then, when I'm satisfied that I can duplicate the results every time, I share them with anyone and everyone.

Hope this helps.

Seeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


----------

