# Pot Roast sooo tough!



## Keds (Oct 12, 2011)

Ok, so I make the chuck roast, and I've cooked it on Low for 10 or so hours, tough.  Cooked on High for 10 or so hours. Tough.  Am I adding too much water?  Is that possible??  They used to be so good, and I don't know what's wrong anymore!  Thank you!


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## forty_caliber (Oct 12, 2011)

Are you cooking in the oven, a crock pot, or....???  Please give us more details about your ingredients and preparation. 

.40


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## Keds (Oct 12, 2011)

It's in a crock pot.  I add potatoes, carrots, garlic & onion powder, salt and enough water to cover it.


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## Alix (Oct 12, 2011)

You need a bit of acid to tenderize the meat. Something like a couple tbsps of wine or a tbsp of tomato paste in the broth. Cook for 6 hours or so in a crockpot.


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## Dawgluver (Oct 12, 2011)

Alix said:
			
		

> You need a bit of acid to tenderize the meat. Something like a couple tbsps of wine or a tbsp of tomato paste in the broth. Cook for 6 hours or so in a crockpot.



I would agree.  Even some balsamic vinegar might work.  I would limit the water, subbing a more substantial liquid like broth.  

Was this a TNT recipe that has always worked for you before?  If so, it may have been the meat.


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## TATTRAT (Oct 12, 2011)

10 hours is going to render ANY cut tough, and dry as a dessert. . .even if it was cooked covered in liquid. Chuck is really lean, the cooking process should stop as soon as it is tender, and the carry over cooking will help it finish to fork tender.


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## Dawgluver (Oct 12, 2011)

TATTRAT said:
			
		

> 10 hours is going to render ANY cut tough, and dry as a dessert. . .even if it was cooked covered in liquid. Chuck is really lean, the cooking process should stop as soon as it is tender, and the carry over cooking will help it finish to fork tender.



Good point, Tat!


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Oct 12, 2011)

I also agree with Tat.  The target temperature for the braised meat is around 190' F.  If the liquid is bubbling, then it is boiling, and that happens around 212' F.  When meat is cooked above an internal temperature of 160', it begins to toughen and dry out.  However, depending on the portion of chuck used, there is sufficient connecting tissue and fat interspersed between meat fibers to rendy the meat tender at 190', the point at which those tissues begin to dissolve.  This makes the meat flavorful and tender.  

If you allow the meat to boil (even a very low boil), it goes well beyond the target temperature and toughens the meat.  As the protiens tighten, they squeese out the natural meat juices.

I once boiled bratwurst in my slow cooker overnight, not understanding how meats react to heat.  Have you ever eaten a dry, tough brat?  It's not very pallatable.

You may be able to save your roast by letting it rest in the fridge, overnight, in its own juices.  This will allow the protien to relax, and the meat to absorb some of the lost juices.  Bring the meat to no more than 120' before serving, the next day.  Use the remaining juices to make a gravy.

I have saved overcooked met this way, but not every time.

Hope this helps.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Hyperion (Oct 13, 2011)

the suggestions can get really complicated... but the truth is, a piece of chuck should be able to become tender in 4 hours. there's no need for acid or anything and it will be tender... OP, could you elaborate how exactly you did it?


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## Keds (Oct 13, 2011)

I have to leave it that long - I leave the house around 6:30, and get home no earlier than 5.  Is there a better cut of meat to use?  If I use chuck, should I use my crock with a timer and do high (or low) for a certain time, and have it go to warm?  

Thank you so much for everybody's help!  

(Also, what does Coke do to a roast?)


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## Alix (Oct 13, 2011)

Keds, try a cheaper cut of meat. A piece of meat that needs longer to break down would work better for you. Blade maybe? or Round roast? 

I'm not familiar with timers on crockpots, but that might not be a bad idea. You can set your timer to move to a different setting once you finish the cooking part. 

Coke is like adding vinegar, or another acid to your liquid. It tenderized the meat. I personally don't care for the flavor, but that's just me.


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## Hammster (Oct 13, 2011)

Keds said:


> I have to leave it that long - I leave the house around 6:30, and get home no earlier than 5. Is there a better cut of meat to use? If I use chuck, should I use my crock with a timer and do high (or low) for a certain time, and have it go to warm?
> 
> Thank you so much for everybody's help!
> 
> (Also, what does Coke do to a roast?)


 
Since you have to leave it in for so long, have the roast be somewhat icy (not frozen solid, just icy) when you put it into the crock. Yes, this is completely safe to do. Also, don't cover it with water. You are roasting it, not braising it. A small amount (1/2 cup) of liquid in the bottom of the crock is more than enough. If you can, set a timer to have the crock come on a couple hours after you load it, that will help reduce the total cooking time. Remember, since the roast is icy it will remain at safe temp until the crock comes on. And, if your crock is programmable, then by all means have it switch to warm for the last hour or so before service.


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## betterthanabox (Oct 13, 2011)

I generally use any tough piece of meat, add carrots, celery, onions, mushrooms, spices, and a can of tomatoes, I sometimes add a little bit of beef broth. I cook it in my crock pot for about 6-8 hours on low. That always does the trick, the meat is always falling apart and delicious.


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## jennyema (Oct 13, 2011)

Hammster said:


> Since you have to leave it in for so long, have the roast be somewhat icy (not frozen solid, just icy) when you put it into the crock. Yes, this is completely safe to do. Also, don't cover it with water. You are roasting it, not braising it. A small amount (1/2 cup) of liquid in the bottom of the crock is more than enough. If you can, set a timer to have the crock come on a couple hours after you load it, that will help reduce the total cooking time. Remember, since the roast is icy it will remain at safe temp until the crock comes on. And, if your crock is programmable, then by all means have it switch to warm for the last hour or so before service.


 

A pot roast, as opposed to an oven roast, is by definition braised and not roasted. 

So you will need some liquid in the crock. Probably a cup. I'd suggest beef broth with a litle red wine in it. And a hit of soy sauce.  The cooking meat will give up its juices so you will end up with lots more liquid in the end.

Cooking any cut of beef that long is going to dry it out, for sure. If you have to cook it for that long, buy the fattiest cut like chuck, since the process of rendering the fat during cooking helps keep it moist. A lean cut like round will end up very tough and dry after 10 hours.

The liquid you have left after cooking will be very flavorful, since you've basically made a beef broth by expelling the liquid and flavor fromthe meat into the cooking liquid. Degrease it and make gravy, which may help.

I would definitely make absolutely sure your "warm" setting consistantly keeps the food above 140 degrees, too, or you may risk food poisoning.


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## Hammster (Oct 13, 2011)

jennyema said:


> A pot roast, as opposed to an oven roast, is by definition braised and not roasted.


 
But only if it sits in the liquid, correct? At least, that's my understanding of a braise. To me, 1 cup of liquid will result in a braise and that's why I suggested only the 1/2 cup. If the meat rests on top of the veggies, then it is out of the liquid.


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## jennyema (Oct 13, 2011)

Hammster said:


> But only if it sits in the liquid, correct? At least, that's my understanding of a braise. To me, 1 cup of liquid will result in a braise and that's why I suggested only the 1/2 cup. If the meat rests on top of the veggies, then it is out of the liquid.


 
If you cook protein in liquid in a tighly covered cooking vessel at a low temp, you are braising. 

Crockpots braise, not roast meat. Roasting uses dry, higher heat -- much higher than you could achieve in a crockpot.  ANd you roast uncovered.  And a pot roast, by definition, is a braised dish.

The meat itself will give off its juices so it will braise even if no liquid is added. And it will steam even if it's not sitting in the liquid, although its better if it does sit in it, flavor-wise.

Now I'm wondering about potatoes cooked for 10 hours ....


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## Hammster (Oct 13, 2011)

So, if I put my chunk of meat in one of these:





and use it in the oven, I'm braising? Then why is called a "roaster"? Is it only a roaster when the lid is off? Trying to understand where the fine line is between roasting and braising. Is it only about the lid?


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## TATTRAT (Oct 13, 2011)

Hammster said:


> So, if I put my chunk of meat in one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Roasting is high heat, keeping the meat elevated, such as on a bed of mirepoix, or, on your included rack. The key is air circulation around the protien. That vessel IS a roaster, w/ a lid. Any pan can really be a roaster.

The second you introduce liquid, cover, and simmer, then you are braising. OR, if you have rendered out the natrual jus, cover and simmer, you are braising.


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## TATTRAT (Oct 13, 2011)

Pot "Roast" more than likely refers to the large cut of meat/joint. Any "big" piece of meat was a "roast", doing it in a pot=pot roast. Also, braising of meat, in a covered vessel, has been called pot roasting. . .

another quick distinction: Braising is all about breaking down connective tissue. Roasting is all about caramelization, and ending in a desired temp, like medium rare. . .


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## silentmeow (Oct 13, 2011)

My DH prefers the English cut roasts.  I don't really know what the difference is in the cut but it sure is a beautiful piece of meat.  I love the way it shreds for sandwiches, cold or hot as in BBQ.  I braise it for four hours in an iron DO on the wood heater and it comes out perfect every time.  Good luck.


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## FrankZ (Oct 13, 2011)

I made the italian beef recipe again on Monday.  I used piece of bottom round (just under 5 pounds) for it and it cooked in the crockpot for about 9 hours before I shredded it.  Another couple after shredding and it was not tough or dry.


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## TATTRAT (Oct 13, 2011)

FrankZ said:


> I made the italian beef recipe again on Monday.  I used piece of bottom round (just under 5 pounds) for it and it cooked in the crockpot for about 9 hours before I shredded it.  Another couple after shredding and it was not tough or dry.



Isn't Italian Beef stored/served out of a big vat of drippings?


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## FrankZ (Oct 13, 2011)

Proper italian beef likely is.  This is a crockpot version I found on allrecipes.com.  

My point is it cooks for a long time and isn't tough or dry.  Mind you the recipe calls for 3 cups of water when making.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Oct 13, 2011)

Agaibn, I submit that the cookign temperature is important.  If the meat is boiled, even a low boil, for an extended period of time, it will become tough, dry, and bland.  A proper braise is almost like poaching.  Think of soux-fide cooking.  The temperature is carefully controlled to avoid overcooking the meat in liquid that is too hot.

I have put a pot roast into a pan, turned my oven to 200', and left it for 12 hours or more, and had great roast.

I have boiled meat for 2 hours and had dry, flavorless meat.  Final temperature of the meat is everything.  That is my belief, and the results of many experiments have proven it to me.

Use a meat thermometer and remove the roast when the internal temp reaches about 190' F.  It will be tender and juicy.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Constance (Oct 13, 2011)

Keds said:


> Ok, so I make the chuck roast, and I've cooked it on Low for 10 or so hours, tough.  Cooked on High for 10 or so hours. Tough.  Am I adding too much water?  Is that possible??  They used to be so good, and I don't know what's wrong anymore!  Thank you!



It shouldn't be tough. In fact, it should be mush after all that. Sometimes you just get a tough piece of meat. Grind it up and make meat spread out of it.


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## bikergal34 (Oct 13, 2011)

Ok, Put the crockpot on LOW for that amount of time...even if you don't have one with a warm feature....at the temp the crockpot on low keeps it at...10 hrs will be fine...why it was dry?....you had it on high too long....try the low feature when you are going to be braising that long.  Good Luck! p.s. I don't know how much liquid you had in the crockpot...But I think it was cooking it at too high a temp for too long.


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## Hammster (Oct 14, 2011)

So, I was seeing a bit of contrasting information regarding braise vs roast so I did a bit of research. I know...right? 
Anyway, it seems the real difference is whether the meat is in the liquid or not. A lid can be used for braising or roasting and liquid can be used for braising or roasting. It's just if the meat is in the liquid or out of it. 
If I interpreted correctly, in OP's case the veggies were under the roast so that would act as the rack to keep the meat out of the small amount of liquid I recommended (1/2 cup, I think?).
Another thing to remember about modern slow cookers is they do cook at a higher temperature than when they were first invented. Food safety police made the manufacturers raise the minimum temperature.
Anyway, I'm done flogging this dead horse. I just really wanted to find the fine line between roast and braise. Sorry for the hijack.


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## Soma (Oct 15, 2011)

Well if it's any consolation to you, my pot roast of yesterday is not edible! I paid $20 for 4 pounds of beef brisket (not corned), put it into slow cooker with wine and spices and herbs, cooked for 5 hours on low, then let it sit overnight. Next morning: tough as shoe-leather (not that I've ever eaten shoe leather, just imagining....)
So, I dumpbed all the wine out, and replaced it with some stewed tomatoes I had in freezer. Cooked it another 6 hours today. It's still not chewable!!! I can't believe it.

So if misery likes company, let's commiserate.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Oct 15, 2011)

Soma said:


> Well if it's any consolation to you, my pot roast of yesterday is not edible! I paid $20 for 4 pounds of beef brisket (not corned), put it into slow cooker with wine and spices and herbs, cooked for 5 hours on low, then let it sit overnight. Next morning: tough as shoe-leather (not that I've ever eaten shoe leather, just imagining....)
> So, I dumpbed all the wine out, and replaced it with some stewed tomatoes I had in freezer. Cooked it another 6 hours today. It's still not chewable!!! I can't believe it.
> 
> So if misery likes company, let's commiserate.



You have passed the test.  You are now qualified to cook in the forward Mess Hall on a U.S. Navy Aircraft Carrier.  I once had corned beef on a Reuben, while eating in the forward mess hall of a carrier that was so tough, I couldn't cut it with my knife.  And I'm not kidding.  I was able to rip it with my teeth, and a bunch of arm muscle.  Chewing was almost painful.

Just remember, there is a saying in the Navy; you don't mess with the cooks, the laundry dept., or the corpsman.  The cook prepares your food.  The laundry guy takes care of your clothes, and the corpsman takes care of your vaccination records.  As a cook, you will always be safe with sailors.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## RPCookin (Oct 15, 2011)

TATTRAT said:


> 10 hours is going to render ANY cut tough, and dry as a dessert. . .even if it was cooked covered in liquid. Chuck is really lean, the cooking process should stop as soon as it is tender, and the carry over cooking will help it finish to fork tender.



Agreed.  The cooking process should be plenty by itself to break down any connective tissue in the meat.  I find that about 4 hours on high or 6-8 on low in the Crock Pot makes a chuck roast quite toothsome.  I don't add any acid - usually just a packet of onion soup mix or a can of cream of mushroom and some herbs, then water to almost cover the meat - I get plenty of flavorful liquid to make a good gravy from, and I cook any veggies or taters in some of the broth after the meat is done.


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## Chris-Orton (Nov 19, 2011)

TATTRAT said:
			
		

> 10 hours is going to render ANY cut tough, and dry as a dessert. . .even if it was cooked covered in liquid. Chuck is really lean, the cooking process should stop as soon as it is tender, and the carry over cooking will help it finish to fork tender.



I've heard coke instead of water can keep a roast moist longer than water, but not sure even that could go ten hours


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## bikergal34 (Nov 19, 2011)

Chuck is actually not lean at all...full of fat and connective tissue....a low braise for a 3-4 poud Chuck roast...low and slow...should take about 3-4 hrs....I like to let it get to room temp in it's braising liquid...allows the roast to re-absorb the juice....wrap the roast separate from liquids....now 10 hrs is crazy.....no going back.....once over-boiled...just a rock....no worries...next time you'll see it will be great! Good Luck!!!!


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## Soma (Nov 20, 2011)

Wow, this is a LOT of helpful info - thank you everyone! I"ve been afraid to use my fairly new slow cooker now....maybe I'll keep it only for vegetarian stews, chilis etc...hehe. I suspect it does cook too hot. Roasting in the oven, or braising seems to work much better.

I did a small prime rib beef roast in one of those blue roasting pans, sitting on top of a metal rack with 1/2 cup of water underneath, for 2 hours = beautiful, soft, tender, juicy meat.

But I still have a 3 pound chunk of that fatless "brisket" meat in the freezer, so I might give it another go....but NOT in a slow cooker. I'll try braising it.

Thanks again - I am really enjoying this forum!


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## justplainbill (Nov 20, 2011)

bikergal34 said:


> Chuck is actually not lean at all...full of fat and connective tissue....a low braise for a 3-4 poud Chuck roast...low and slow...should take about 3-4 hrs....I like to let it get to room temp in it's braising liquid...allows the roast to re-absorb the juice....wrap the roast separate from liquids....now 10 hrs is crazy.....no going back.....once over-boiled...just a rock....no worries...next time you'll see it will be great! Good Luck!!!!


+1
We recently finished eating a pot roast made from a 4 lb. bottom round cooked simmering in a covered Dutch oven for 3.5  hours, half covered in water with Minors' beef base, caramelized onions, 2 Tbs of sweet paprika, and 2 Tbs of hot paprika.
After the 3.5  hours the meat was removed to a bowl and the cooking liquid was reduced, added to some browned flour and then enriched  with sour cream.
The resulting sauce was added to the bowl containing the meat. 
The bowl was then cooled and placed in the refrigerator.
The following evening 1/3 of the pot roast was sliced, reheated in some of the sauce and served with noodles.  It was dry and tough.
Same thing on the next day.
On the last day we sliced the remaining meat more thinly, gently reheated for nearly an hour and served as described above.  It was moist, tasty and tender.


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## Oldvine (Nov 21, 2011)

Make sure you slice it across the grain.  If you slice with the grain, it will add to the toughness.


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## Soma (Nov 22, 2011)

Wow Bill, that sounds incredible!...on the third day it turned tender, after two days of tough eating?? what do you think this can be attributed to? (not rot, I assume, ) cuz it should still be fresh after 3 days in fridge....but: what then?


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## justplainbill (Nov 22, 2011)

I attribute day 3's tenderness to the sour cream sauce marination and the lengthy reheating of the thin slices.


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