# Brisket - Fat side up or down



## Kloset BBQR (May 6, 2005)

I know we've debated this before and there seemed to be a slight majority that favored fat side down to up.  The rational (if I remember correctly) that was given was that the fat cap protects the brisket from either drying out or burning because the down side is closer to the heat.  I guess this would have some validity if you were cooking the traditional way directly over hot coals but if you are cooking in an offset smoker or even in a WSM, the temperatures are alway higher at the top, so doesn't if make sense in those instances to cook fat side up in order to benefit from the self basting effect you get from the fat cap slowing melting and having the dripping juices coat the meat.  Seams like a waste of good drippings  to have that fat drip directly into the bottom of the smoker.

I noticed that in BBQ USA, Raichlen advocated fat side up.

The last brisket I cooked was fat side up but I intentionally cooked over the lowest temps I ever had used for cooking a brisket before.  Average temp was about 210.  The brisket came out great but I did flip it about 6 hours into the cook so, I'm not really sure if the great results were due to starting with fat side up and then flipping.  My guess is that it probably was more related to the lower cooking temps and longer cooking time.

Any thoughts?


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## Greg Rempe (May 6, 2005)

In my WSM I cook it fat side down...after it reaches an internal of 190* I pull it off, wrap it in HD foil and rest it *FAT SIDE UP *in a dry cooler...as it's resting (4 hrs ideally) the fat is still melting from the fat cap and basting the now underside of the brisket.  It has worked out very well for me the last 3 times I have done them like that. :!:


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## Guest (May 6, 2005)

I, personally, don't know, but Keri C posted "Your brisket bible - a writeup by legendary pitmaster Danny Gaulden" over on TVWB and here's what he had to say:

_After your fire has settled down to around 240-250°, put the brisket in the pit, fat side up and leave it like that the entire time if you're using a pit like my Big Bertha with a Ferris wheel rack system or a water smoker.

Now, if you're using an off-set firebox type pit, like a New Braunfels Black Diamond or a Klose, put the brisket on the rack fat side up and then turn it over and mop it every two hours so the bottom side doesn't get too much heat and dry out. While it's with the fat side up, the fat renders and penetrates in, over and around the cooking meat. When brisket becomes fork tender in the flat, take it off the pit, let it cool for about 30 minutes._


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## Kloset BBQR (May 6, 2005)

I guess another thing to take into consideration is whether you are cooking a whole brisket or just the flat.  I prefer whole brisket because it's the only way to get burnt ends (from the point).  The point is a much tougher fattier piece of meat and can take higher heat than the flat which tends to dry out easier.
It also requires a longer cooking time.

I'm just trying to make sense out of this in a scientific/Alton Brown sort of way.

I think flipping does make sense because you can mop the underside of the brisket that way to keep it from drying out.


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## LarryWolfe (May 6, 2005)

I always cook my Briskets fat side up.  Never had a dry one, never had a burnt one.  I cook everything I cook in the WSM at a dome temp in the range of 240-260.  I've thought about giving the fat side down method a try, but I'm happy with the way mine turn out.  If I ever have a dry one, I'll blame the cook (myself) rather than whether the brisket was fat up or fat down.  I'm not saying the folks that do cook fat side down are doing anything wrong, but fat side down just doesn't make sense IMHO.


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## LarryWolfe (May 6, 2005)

TexLaw said:
			
		

> The eternal question.  I backed out of this debate a long time ago.  I'm not even saying what I do.
> 
> For those who seek the answer, you must earn it.  Cook 'em fat side up, and cook 'em fat side down.  Whatever you like better, keep doing it that way.
> 
> ...



Great conclusion Tex!


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## Jack W. (May 6, 2005)

I'll take fat anywhere I can get it.  I've been known to put briskets on the bottom rack of the offset, fat side down, it keeps the meat protected from the bottom.  Then I'll put a couple of butts on the top shelf fat side up.  I'll mop the hell out of the butts and let the fat from the butts take care of the brisket.  At the end of the cook I get my choice of Q off the pit and some fine eatin' for a couple of weeks.  The process can be the same in any 2 level smoker.  

Good Q!

Jack


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## Kloset BBQR (May 6, 2005)

Ok for you fat side down guys please  explain why this is better than up.  For those that say its to protect the brisket from the heat, please explain.  The top rack of any smoker is hotter than the lower rack as heat rises, so using that rationalle, shouldn't you cook fat side up to get the benefits of the self basting over the meat plus the protection from the higher temps up top?  And it your cooking at 200-210 where's this big heat that we need protection from?

P.S. I always place my brisket at the farthest end of the cooking chamber away from the fire box.

Not trying to start an argument, just trying to understand this scientifically so to speak.  All you Einsteins/Alton Brown types out there please speak up.

After we debate this ad nauseum we can go back to the issues of right side/left side brisket.  LOL! :grin:  

Thanks for sharing any and all ideas/theories.


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## Guest (May 6, 2005)

Kloset BBQR said:
			
		

> After we debate this ad nauseum we can go back to the issues of right side/left side brisket.  LOL! :grin:


That's gonna be a good one!  :grin:


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## Kloset BBQR (May 6, 2005)

If we could get a few more people to attend Smokestock 2005 perhaps we could settle this issue through a blind taste test and compare three briskets
1 cooked up, 1 down, and 1 flipped.  

We could also do the lump vs briquette with  wood chunks and see if anyone can pick out the briske and butts cooked with lump vs briquettes.  My guess is that most could not.


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## Pigs On The Wing BBQ (May 6, 2005)

I think it depends on the cut. Flat, Point, Or whole packer. Also if it is a whole packer, Is it graded "Choice" or  "Select" ? All these variables come into play. What about how much fat you trim? Lets skip the left-right debate.


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## Kloset BBQR (May 6, 2005)

Well, from a purely scientific standpoint, I can't see any advantages to fat side down, it just seems like a waste of a free basting which means less opening of the pit which I believe is a good thing, right.  Scientific explanations keep opinions out of it and keep the discussion civil I hope.

My assumptions are based on the following conditions:

1  Useing a whole packer brisket
2. Low temps between 200-210 to keep the fat from boiling out
3. Long cooking times
4. Cooking on an offset smoker so no direct contact with coals or fire
5. I am going under the theory that heat rises to the top so the heat at the
    bottom of the brisket is not any hotter and probably cooler than the top 
    of the brisket.
6. I am cooking the brisket at the farthest end of the cooking chamber 
    away from the firebox (again to minimize the effect of heat spikes).

For flat's I can understand the need for mopping and flipping but still don't see the benefit of flat side down for the entire cook.

Points

Nobody cooks points unless they are cooking the whole brisket. These require the longest cook and usually are separated from the flat after the  flat is done and returned to the pit for another 3-4 hours.  Hard to screw up the point (kind of like a pork butt, very forgiving).  It's the flat when cooked by itself can turn out dry.   If someone can point me to a place in NE Ohio where I can buy the point separately from the flat, you'll be my new best friend.  Can't get enough of those burnt ends.

One final challenge - Can someone tell me a disadvantage to fat side up because right now I can't see *any*.

Thanks again.


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## Pigs On The Wing BBQ (May 6, 2005)

Points make great pastrami and are great for corning! I'm thinking that the fat side up vs. the fat side down comes to personal preference. And what kind of pit you have along with care to fire tending. Just as cooking with or with out a thermometer.Is it worth trying to learn with out a thermometer? I would have to say Yes.Simple fact is that most (not all) people love to stick to the "rules" and think if a pork butt I did last time took 12 hours @ 225-250 same should be true this time,after all it's about the same weight. Nothing could be farther from the truth.In a nut shell. The more you do in your pit the more the pit it self will educate you.No thermometer,person or pit can make you a pit master.Yes it is a handy tool to use,but as time goes by the more you cook the better you come acquainted with your pit and what end result you want to achieve.There are folk that run to there pit and check the temp.because a little beeper is going off or the wireless polder they look at every 2 seconds.Then adjust that, move this,It's all a waste of time.Don't get me wrong, If I have three hundred dollars of standing rib on the pit I sure as hell am not going to wonder too far away,BUT ribs, butts and brisket basic staples of barbecue? I'll go back to bed or read a book as to fool around with a thermometer. But that's a whole different subject.


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## Jack W. (May 6, 2005)

Pigs On The Wing BBQ said:
			
		

> I think it depends on the cut. Flat, Point, Or whole packer. Also if it is a whole packer, Is it graded "Choice" or  "Select" ? All these variables come into play. What about how much fat you trim? Lets skip the left-right debate.



IMHO the hard white fat on beef is great for the ground beef, but not as good for basting.  It takes a lot of heat to get it to render and there is not as much moisture there to use.  I find it best to trim it to 1/4 inch.  Lay a thin layer of trim on the top of the cow pie and the debate now turns to fat, or no fat.  

Without the Texas police here the left-right debate is really not as much fun.  

Good Q!

Jack


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## Pigs On The Wing BBQ (May 6, 2005)

Geesssshhh Jack! Don't give away all the secrets!! What's next, The secret pig skin formula? (cracklings)  #-o  [-o<


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## Jack W. (May 6, 2005)

Pigs On The Wing BBQ said:
			
		

> Geesssshhh Jack! Don't give away all the secrets!! What's next, The secret pig skin formula? (cracklings)  #-o  [-o<



LOL

I've been sworn to strict secrecy on that one!!  [-X   [-X


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## LarryWolfe (May 6, 2005)

That's it!!!!  I'm cooking my briskets in a rib rack.......SIDEWAYS!  So now we can throw the fat up/fat down out the window!   8-[


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## Texana (May 6, 2005)

Kloset BBQR said:
			
		

> Well, from a purely scientific standpoint, I can't see any advantages to fat side down, it just seems like a waste of a free basting which means less opening of the pit which I believe is a good thing, right.  Scientific explanations keep opinions out of it and keep the discussion civil I hope.



Do you have any scientific data to confirm that the basting of the fat acutally does anything?  If so I would realy like to read about it.

I dont know one way or the other myself, but I would think it is pointless.  As it renders it seems to just roll of, but hey thats my opinion.  If that is the case put it on the bottom and save it some travel time.  I cook fat side down and it works great for me.  

I wonder if this would fall into one of those myth catagories such as Searing Meat Seals In The Jucies.
Just very curious ... thats all.


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## Nick Prochilo (May 6, 2005)

This is way too confusing. My next brisket is going to be Memorial day weekend. I'm gonna close my eyes as I put it on the smoker, It's gonna cook and i'm gonna eat it!


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## LarryWolfe (May 6, 2005)

Ya know this is just a how you like it type of thing.  If you like it fat side up, cook it that way.  If you like it fat side down, cook it that way.  We could go on and on and on and on and bring up other stuff. The bottom line is, cook it how you like it.


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## Jack W. (May 6, 2005)

Texana said:
			
		

> Kloset BBQR said:
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Scientific Data????  

You're pullin my leg, please say it ain't so! :razz: 

Good Q!

Jack


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## LarryWolfe (May 6, 2005)

Jack W. said:
			
		

> Texana said:
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Scientific Data????  

You're pullin my leg, please say it ain't so! :razz: 

Good Q!

Jack[/quote:ptxdkt7t]

AMEN!


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## Finney (May 7, 2005)

I cook mine fat side down for one reason... and one reason only...

*JIM MINION SAID TO!*  8-[


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## LarryWolfe (May 8, 2005)

Chris Finney said:
			
		

> I cook mine fat side down for one reason... and one reason only...
> 
> *JIM MINION SAID TO!*  8-[



Clean your nose off Finney!


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## K Kruger (May 8, 2005)

Jack W. said:
			
		

> IMHO the hard white fat on beef is great for the ground beef, but not as good for basting.


 Right. This type of fat doesn't render at Q temps. Fat down is to protect the meat from the heat below that you have in a WSM or other kind of vertical cooker like a BGE. There can be different dynamics in an offset where you might need to cook it fat up or down to start, flipping periodically, and possibly mopping as well.


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## txpgapro (May 8, 2005)

Well I just finished my first brisket with the fat side down.  I'll never go back to being on top.    Hardly any fat cap to remove as it has all dripped ino my water pan I use to keep the juices recirculating.


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## Kloset BBQR (May 8, 2005)

Texana said:
			
		

> Kloset BBQR said:
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Guys,

I just got back from a weekend camping trip (Maiden voyage in our new travel trailer).  Did get some traditional grilling, Hot Dogs & Hamburgers on a Weber Oklahoma Joe Platinum (18" grill) as well as some great ribeyes.  No brisket.

Just wanted to post back to some of the great reply's.  I don't have any scientific data for fat side up or down.  I was just hoping to make a decision based on science to keep the emotion out of it.  Now fat side up does make sense to me if you believe that there is a basting advantage to it.  I have heard this from both Steve Raichlen and Paul Kirk but I have also heard many championship BBQ'rs swear on fat side down.  I do believe that there is a difference possibly based on what type of equipment you are using.  I'm generally using a Klose offset.

I would love to hear Jim Minion chime in on this because I believe that if anyone can explain this scientifically it would be Jim.  Jim has a lot of credibility with me because he is also a Kingsford advocate for smoking. :grin:   But could he be advocating fat side down for WSM's or for all equipment?  I'm just trying to figure out the best method by asking a lot of questions.

As the bank robber in the original Dirty Harry movie said to Clint Eastwood when Clint asked him was it 5 or 6 rounds and the guy looking down at that 44 magnum replied "I just gots to know!"
 

In the end I guess If I flip, I'll be right at least half the time.

Thanks for everyone's input.  Some very good responses.

Kloset


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## Uncle Bubba (May 8, 2005)

I like to cook it fat side down for no other reason that to apply a really layering of rub onto the good part...Apply, let it meld, apply let it meld.  I do this about 2-3 times and out workd out really well.


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