# Balsamic vinegar??!!



## pancake (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi there   

I have never thought of what Balsamic vinegar is actually made of until yesterday. My friend told me it's a type of red wine or it's made like red wine exactly yet more concentrated   :?: Does anyone know what it's really made of and if it has alcohol in it at all?

Why I'm asking is : I'm inviting a friend over for dinner Sunday night, and she doesn't drink alcohol at all, not any bit. So I was wondering if I could or couldn't serve any dish with Balsamic vinegar?

Thanks !!!


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## Raine (Mar 4, 2005)

When you cook alcohol, the alcohol cooks out.

Balsamic Vinegar



The first literary references to balsamic vinegar date back to the year 1046. In that year Emperor Henry III went from Northern Europe to Rome. On the way, while stopping in Piacenza, he asked Marquis Bonifacio, father of Countess Matilde di Canossa, for a small cask of the famous laudatum acentum.



Further documentary proof confirms Modena as the birthplace of balsamic vinegar, whose method of preparation did not undergo any significant changes for many centuries. The traditional raw material for balsamic vinegar had always been wine vinegar, which was then aged for even hundreds of years. This is the hallmark of a tradition which was handed down from generation to generation.



Even the Estense family, which ruled the Duchy of Modena from 1598 to the middle of the 19th century, possessed large stores of balsamic vinegar which became famous throughout Europe. Menus from this period show that it was never lacking at meals



The culinary requirements of such a renowned court made it necessary for the west tower of the Ducal Palace in Modena (residence of the Estense family) to be dedicated exclusively to the production of balsamic vinegar.



In 1861 Mr. Aggazzotti, a lawyer, introduced a revolutionary production technique that used concentrated grape must as the raw material instead of wine vinegar. This is the method that has been used ever since to produce traditional balsamic vinegars.


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## ronjohn55 (Mar 4, 2005)

Hi Pancake,

It's kinda made from wine (see below), but there's little to no alcohol left in vinegar. What happens with vinegar is that a bacteria known as acetobacter feeds on the alcohol and sugars in the wine producing acetic acid (Vinegar). 

Most breweries and wineries try to avoid the stuff like the plauge, since it's highly infectous to both finished and unfinished fermented products. Most artisian vinegar producers add all of the cultures at once (so the wine 'must' or juice both ferments and converts alchol to acetic acid at the same time), so it never REALLY becomes fully fermented wine. For Balsamic, I think they cook down the grape juice/must a little bit first to up the sugar content. 

John


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## GB (Mar 4, 2005)

Rainee said:
			
		

> When you cook alcohol, the alcohol cooks out.



Be careful of this statement around people who cannot have alcohol. Depending on the cooking method and time not all the alcohol cooks out.

Here is just one chart that will show the amount of alcohol that might still be in a dish after cooking.

Here is another.


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## ronjohn55 (Mar 4, 2005)

While I have plenty of repect for people who don't drink for whatever reason - I think some of them take it to the extreme at times. Then there are also people who, for medical or other reasons, have to be vigilant for a reason. 

HOWEVER      If you get someone who you think is really just making far too big a deal out of things, and really want to freak them out, just run down a list of things that 'technically' have alcohol in them.

Obviously, any fermented beverage, but fermentation also includes:
Cheese
Yogurt
Sauerkraut
Dill pickles (At least SOME varieties)
Real Vinegars (Not the distilled white stuff in the store)
All breads with yeast. (Yep! All of 'em. Yeast eat sugar and convert it to CO2 and Ethyl alcohol. If yeast made it rise, it has alcohol in it). 

There are still more but that's a good start...    

Remember, this is just for fun not to pick on anyone's decisions not to drink. 

John


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## pancake (Mar 4, 2005)

Thanks for the clarification, I didn't think it was that complicated  
GB, I saw that chart and frankly I never felt alcohol completely evapourates like most chefs claim it does and to make things worse... I was going to serve a salad with Balsamic vinaigrette, so I'm not even cooking it or anything  :!: 

Ron, she eats breads & cheeses and everything you've actually listed  I never thought they contain alcohol, I don't think I'll tell her though--that way I won't know what to serve   

Y'all thanks alot, I'll keep searching but it doesn't look encouraging !


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## GB (Mar 4, 2005)

You might want to ask your friend (if you are comfortable doing that) if she stays away from vinegar. Chances are she does not and balsamic would not be a problem to her. My chart was more in reference to actually cooking with alcohol like wine or vodka. Like Ronjon mentioned there is little to no alcohol left in the vinegar after it becomes vinegar


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## pancake (Mar 4, 2005)

GB said:
			
		

> You might want to ask your friend (if you are comfortable doing that) if she stays away from vinegar. Chances are she does not and balsamic would not be a problem to her. My chart was more in reference to actually cooking with alcohol like wine or vodka. Like Ronjon mentioned there is little to no alcohol left in the vinegar after it becomes vinegar



GB thank you  I was just thinking of bringing it up & asking her, I'm very comfortable with that she's very sweet


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## GB (Mar 4, 2005)

I actually just did a quick search on google. I search for Balsamic alcohol content. Interestingly enough it came up with a page of what non-alcoholic beverages to serve to someone who wants to stay away from booze. One of the suggestions was sparkling water with a few drops of high quality balsamic vinegar. I found that pretty interesting 

Best of luck with your dinner!


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## pancake (Mar 4, 2005)

GB said:
			
		

> I actually just did a quick search on google. I search for Balsamic alcohol content. Interestingly enough it came up with a page of what non-alcoholic beverages to serve to someone who wants to stay away from booze. One of the suggestions was sparkling water with a few drops of high quality balsamic vinegar. I found that pretty interesting
> 
> Best of luck with your dinner!



Whooooooooo-hooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!! I love that !!!!      
I'll be making my favorite salad !!! Thanks GB, you're great help!


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## GB (Mar 4, 2005)

My pleasure!


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## Michael in FtW (Mar 6, 2005)

For what it's worth - I just ran and checked my bottle from Modena and it's got 0% alcohol. Of course, according to the food labeling laws, anything less than 0.5% is the same as 0%.

I love people that "freak" over alcohol in their food .... most don't have a clue about what they are talking about! For some it is a religious thing, for others it is because they are on some medication that says not to take it with alcohol, and for others their doctor told them to not drink alcohol for some other reason.

But, as someone pointed out - yeast leavened bread contains alcohol. Anything like pastry that contains vanilla extract contains alcohol ... and it's 40% alcohol. But, it's also diluted .. so the amount you actually consume is so small it's not going to be noticed, even by a recovering alcoholic. Wine is the same thing ... it takes about 1/4 cup wine to equal the amount of alcohol in a tablespoon of vanilla extract ... and most of it is going to cook out .... the ramainder is going to be so diluted it's not worth mentioning.

Flavor and aromatic components of foods/herbs/spices are disolved and released by three things ... water, fats, alcohol. 

The truth is ... you could get less alcohol from using 1/4 cup wine to deglage a pan than in 1 cookie!


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## Claire (Mar 26, 2005)

The vanilla extract thing is an ongoing joke in many families with a dipsomaniac relative -- more than one early 20th century housewife went to bake her cookies only to find that Uncle upended her giant (and very expensive in those days) bottle.  A local woman here heard a noise in her kitchen, went to look, and found her empty vanilla bottle on the counter where a desperate neighbor had dropped in for a fix. 

I'm in the school of when in doubt, ask.  My, how some people make it difficult for you to be a good host, but then that's somewhere here on another thread.


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## Claire (Mar 26, 2005)

Oh, it just occurred to me, another reason for some people not to drink is that some people lack an enzyme that allows you to process alcohol.  A lot of Asian women I know cannot drink at all for this reason.  But I've never known them to carry it to the extreme of not eating foods prepared with alcohol, they just do not drink.  It is sort of like being lactose intolerant.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Mar 27, 2005)

If your freind abstains from alcohol for religeous reasons, as I do, I will clarify.  In my faith, we believe that we have received revelation to stay away from all substances that can control us.  That means we don't use caffeinated beverages, alcohol, drugs (except by medical direction), don't gamble, etc.  We also believe that every individual has the right to beleive and worship however they choose.  I would never look down on any of my freinds who use alcohol.  I only ask that they respect my choice to abstain.  Besides, I quit young, before I joined the LDS faith, as I was a skinny little guy that got sick every time I tried to drink alcoholic beverages.  And it just tastes nasty to me.  My youngest sister, on the other hand, loves the flavor of beer, and has since she first snuck a sip of her Dad's beer at about age eight.  She drinks responsibly and not very often.  She loves the beverage for its flavor and uses it as a treat, the way I treat myself occasionally with an exceptional cheddar cheese.  

Would I chastize her for drinking a beer?  No I wouldn't.  That's her choice.  Would I chastize her for trying to get me to "loosen up" with a beer?  You betcha.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## mudbug (Mar 27, 2005)

All I know is that balsamic is GREAT for marinating strawberries.


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## marmalady (Mar 27, 2005)

Another - major - reason for folks not ingesting alcohol in any form is if they're recovering alcoholics. Having worked at a drug/alcohol rehab program, the folks there were given pretty extensive lists on what to stay away from when they left. Not only because the physical effects could affect them, but for some, even the aroma of wine or beer, or alcohol, could send a recovering person over the edge. 


I don't think we need to bluntly ask a guest why they're abstaining in any form; just respect the fact that they are.


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## jpinmaryland (Mar 31, 2005)

did you say you joined the LSD faith?


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Apr 1, 2005)

That would be the L.D.S Faith, or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.  Though I'm whacky enough that there are those who might think LSD was a better explanation for my shenanigans.  I just have this fun-loving child within me that refuses to go away.  And it doesn't help that I cultivate that childlike fun.  

I'd rather be a 49 year-old kid, who refuses to be kept down, than an arrogant, snobbish, materialistic, too serious adult male who has to keep up with the Jones', or have the most expensive toys.  Give me a good kite, with dual strings so I can "fly" it and I'm the happiest guy on the block.  But even better than that, it'll soon be fishing season again.  Whooohoooo!  and you hear music in the background with the old motown lyrics chiming in "Celebrate good times, Yahoo, It's a celebration."

And then, there's always a good squirt-gun.  

Seeeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## mudbug (Apr 1, 2005)

Goodweed of the North said:
			
		

> And then, there's always a good squirt-gun.


 
come over to my house to play, Goodweed.  We have the Super Soaker kind!


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Apr 1, 2005)

Ahem!  Back to the topic.  Balsamic Vinegar is great stuff, but is not for everything.  I once tried using it in my Pineapple Sweet & Sour Sauce.  It just wasn't right.  Then again, I used rice vinegar last night and it wasn't right either.  Plain white vinegar or Apple Cider vinegar work well in it though.  

There.  Now that I've been back on topic, it's time to jump off again.  I am a true believer that you should harass your children before they turn into teenagers and know everything.  

And what was your favoret way to torment kids? you ask.  Well that one's easy.  Ice water over the shower curtain, heh,heh,heh.

Of course they got me back.  It wouldn't be fair if I hadn't let them.  That's a Dad's job.  But I have to admit that there was a certain young teen, a daughter of a family freind, who, while I was showering at their house, as I had been there with my wife helping around the farm, introduced me to the ice-water over the shower trick.  I was about 26 years of age and just a bit too quick and agile for this poor young lass.  She was outside watering some plants with a hose.  When I stepped outside, fully dressed, she tried to turn the hose on me.  I was too quick though and was able to elude her.  However, I did get the hose, and she got drenched in cold water.  I didn't get a drop on me.  That was payback, and extremely fun.  It infuriated her that she couldn't catch me.  I told her that ya just have to be careful who you get with your pranks.  Don't mess with the big dogs.

I also got her and her boyfreind while we were visiting another time.  She had just returned from eating at a restauraunt with her boyfreind.  We "adults" were sitting around the kitchen table, just jawing a bit when she and her squeese walked in.  I looked her in the eye and said "I know what you two have been doing tonight." in a very incriminating voice.  She retorted a simple "What."  I then said, without batting an eyelash, you two have been out masticating."

The poor girl had no idea that masticate means to chew.  She turned so many shades of deep red, and her parents howled in laughter.  I'm afraid I left scars with that one.  We did tell her what masticate meant, when we again commanded control of our emotions.  

As my favorite wabbit says, "Ain't I a stinker?"  

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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