# More about customer service



## VeraBlue (May 23, 2008)

Most of you probably know that I'm a stickler when it comes to customer service. I'm in the industry, so I get the part about being overworked, underappreciated, etc. I also know some people can be unreasonable. I also believe that 'unreasonable' cannot often be described in black and white terms, and to attempt to do so is an effort in futility. 

I always expect great customer service and am dissatisfied when I don't receive it. I'll express it verbally or financially. Either way, I'll express it.

I've been in a search, lately, for a suitable place for my bi-weekly manicure and pedicure. It's usually cleanliness or poor customer service that sends me looking for a new place. I thought I'd finally found a place I could be satisfied with, until yesterday.

I had a 4:30 appointment. I called at 4:25 to alert them I was stuck in traffic and would be 5 minutes late. "No problem" was the response I received. I arrived at 4:37 to discover that my manicurist was doing a pedicure on the owner's feet. I had to wait till 4:45 before she was able to take my appointment. (that may not seem like a lot to some people, but, when I still have 6 more things to do before I can get home for the evening, every minute counts.) While the manicurist was in the midst of my manicure, a woman entered, desiring an eyebrow waxing. The manicurist put my hands into the 'ezbake' oven, left me to attend to the new customer. My hands were ready in 90 seconds. The manicurist didn't return for 5 minutes. While she was doing the waxing, her cell phone rang. She returned to me, picked up her phone, and returned the call.....for 10 minutes, while working on my hands.

The cost for the procedure I had yesterday was 30$. Normally, I leave a $5 tip. I left nothing. My pedicure was $18. I left a $5 tip. I scheduled an appointment for 2 weeks because I like the way my hands look when she is complete. The way I look at it, I can live with paying for the cost of the procedure, but I won't tip for customer service that I didn't receive.

I could go on for another three or more paragraphs about how the manicurist(s) don't even attempt to make conversation with me or anyone other customers. They seem more content to speak with the other staff members in their native tongue. I know they can speak English...they do answer the phone and discuss the finances....

I'd rather this not become another thread about how people deserve tips, or how overworked service workers are. Rather, how about discussing/ranting about reasons you haven't left a tip, or a miniscule tip...


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## buckytom (May 23, 2008)

the reason they don't speak english is that they are insulting you for your consumption of milk products and lack of ancestor worship! (i'm guessing they're asian)

j/k.

i find that rude too. 

umm, not when i get a manicure. 

'cause i don't. i don't get manicures.

OR pedicures, sheesh! 

i mean when people speak foreign languages when they are in "mixed" company. i've found that the proper thing to do is if you wish to have a conversation with someone in a group that speaks a different language than the rest, you should excuse yourself first by saying to the group, "if you don't mind, we are going to speak _yada yada_", and then yo may continue.

this has happened to me at various meetings and parties at work, where 2 or more of the engineers were from foreign lands, and wanted to speak in their native tongue. i've heard many, including korean, japanese, russian, spanish, and german, mixed in with the technical words that i could understand.

it alwyas struck me as polite, and it made notice of when the more well mannered and educated engineers would excuse themselves before speaking as such.


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## Saphellae (May 23, 2008)

When I am at Nick's mother's house with his brother there sometimes it is habit for them to go off talking in Greek.  I pick up things here and there, but not enough.  They always translate for me though.

I think it is rude for a business like the one you described (an asian-run nail salon) to speak in anything but the language of their clients. It shows a great disrespect for the clients, for all they know they could be talking about them.  If they want to speak it together, let them speak it away from work.


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## babetoo (May 23, 2008)

Saphellae said:


> When I am at Nick's mother's house with his brother there sometimes it is habit for them to go off talking in Greek. I pick up things here and there, but not enough. They always translate for me though.
> 
> I think it is rude for a business like the one you described (an Asian-run nail salon) to speak in anything but the language of their clients. It shows a great disrespect for the clients, for all they know they could be talking about them. If they want to speak it together, let them speak it away from work.


 


totally agree with you. and then there are the service people such as a hair dresser. who have not bothered to learn english. they say they haven't but sometimes i think they do, just want to tweak you. 

hair dresser i just had , had been doing hair for 12 years. i was not sure she got what i wanted done. very aggravating. 

it is especially bad here , because we are so close to the mexican border. 

i used to go to a nail salon where they all spoke some form of oriental language. had their children there either in cribs or running loose. needless to say, i don't go their anymore.

babe


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## LEFSElover (May 23, 2008)

VeraBlue, I've been in the business since '83. I know about times constraints, overworked salon people etc. To me, customer service is everything. If a patron doesn't get what they came in for, they go elsewhere. I know I have.
I know some have been annoyed by me as well, BUT NOT many times. I kept my apts on schedule and on point. If I didn't, I expected you to be upset. I'd drop a price, say no tip today, or something close. It's inexcusable in my opinion to keep customers waiting while the hairdresser or nail tech talks on their cell, just inexcusable.

I myself, have walked out.


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## GotGarlic (May 23, 2008)

Hi, Vera. If I had had that experience, I would not have left a tip, either, and I would probably have mentioned to the owner that I thought it was unprofessional for an employee to answer a personal call while they were with a client. 

About the language, when I was in college, I worked in a restaurant that employed a lot of Filipinos. Once, when we were folding napkins getting ready for a large banquet, they started speaking in their language. I asked them if they would please speak English. One asked me if I thought they were talking about me. I said no, I felt left out of the conversation. They spoke in English after that.

Saphellae, I wouldn't assume that if people are speaking in a language you don't understand that they are talking about you. It's common, I think, to think that they're talking about you because it's an uncomfortable feeling not knowing what's being said. No offense, but they're probably talking about something more interesting to them - children, dinner, what they're doing this weekend, etc.


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## In the Kitchen (May 23, 2008)

This foreign language is really starting to affect me too.  My mom and dad both only knew foreign language.  They HAD to learn English.  Why has the rules changed?  In the house, they spoke their native tongue but outside the house they spoke English the best way they could.  

It is true some are in the customer service type of work and that is really hard to take.  I just wonder if they try to get you confused that you will get frustrated and forget about whatever.  

Customer service is what makes this country thrive and if you don't believe it look what is happening around you.  Most Wal Mart stores do seem like most of the people try to help, at least the store I go to.

Sorry Vera Blue you had bad experience.  I thank you for sharing.  It does make you feel better when someone comments on your experience, doesn't it?  I know I complain plenty around here and always feel better after I did.


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## Saphellae (May 23, 2008)

> Saphellae, I wouldn't assume that if people are speaking in a language you don't understand that they are talking about you. It's common, I think, to think that they're talking about you because it's an uncomfortable feeling not knowing what's being said. No offense, but they're probably talking about something more interesting to them - children, dinner, what they're doing this weekend, etc.



I agree, but like I said, some clients may THINK that. All I was saying is it gives off the wrong message, whether on purpose or not, or if they are talking about someone, or not.


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## simplicity (May 23, 2008)

I make an effort to remember names.  It's a way both to compliment or complain.  If I receive poor service my preference is to complain directly to the person responsible.  I'll say something like "I am not leaving you a tip today because...(reason)". Mostly, their responses have been sheepish or apologetic. Mostly they already knew they screwed up.


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## Adillo303 (May 23, 2008)

There are a couple of "wrongs" here. 

First customer service. Vera, you were right not to tip. a tip is a thank you for extra service, it dosen't seem like you got that. I also use a tip for a thank you. I am in a service business as well, tips are not involved, but, in a service business, if you do not take care fo the customer, they go elsewhere, which you are doing.

Second, language, It is normal to think people are talking about you when they switch languages. I know that is not happening all the time, but, human natuer is human nature. It is definately rude to carry on a conversation in a language that is not understood by everyone, if a common language is available. With that said, I was once working in Holland for a few days. I entered the office and everyone was in a circle speaking Dutch. When I came in they stopped and one of them turned to me and said, "We appologize for speaking Dutch around you, but, we are planning a surprize for you and we want to keep it a surprize". I was honored. That is the only time while I was there that they did not switch to English when I arrived.

AC


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## Loprraine (May 23, 2008)

> reasons you haven't left a tip, or a miniscule tip...


 
Tips are a touchy subject with me.  Give me great service, I leave a great tip.  Give me poor service, or way less than I expect, and I leave nothing.  I don't think I have ever left a miniscule tip, they probably wouldn't understand why. Depending on how annoyed I am, I will tell the the person directly.  But, sometimes, especially if the server is the major problem, I'll go to the manager / owner.  

If it is the person serving me's fault, no tip.  If it's due to extenuating circumstances (server is great, food is lousy, spa is overbooked), I'll tip, but will speak to the manager.

If I book an appointment, whether the spa, hairdresser, dentist (doctor is the exception), and they are more than 15 minutes behind schedule, I walk, and make them re-schedule my appointment.  My time is as valuable as theirs.  One off is ok, but with some places , it's habitual They don't like losing the business, so will hopefully shape up.


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## expatgirl (May 26, 2008)

Gosh, VeraBlue.......I so want to take you to my nail place.....it's spotless and the service is impeccable and it's cheap......the service staff are Vietnamese and I treated my best friend to a pedicure for her birthday......MY GUY'S cell phone rang innumerable times and I even encouraged him to answer it and he waved me off......he was determined to render my feet acceptable to  the  general public (and believe me they were hideous after being in Kazakhstan for 6 months).  This was my friend's first pedicure ever.  She was amazed........and so pampered.......both of our attendants were attentive and spoke English and I really don't think wanted to leave our company.......Linda is just as "crazy" as I am....I, too, had to call ahead of time and tell them that we were running late but it wasn't a problem....yes, they do need a courtesy call just like you, the customer does


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## Dave Hutchins (May 26, 2008)

If I have been given shoddy service or poor food/service.  If it is a chain I go to my PC and git the home address and write them a ""nice "" letter describing my problem and it has worked wonders.  Some tail feathers I am sure were burnt beyond recognition but on further visits My service improved remarkably, and food was some what improved.
I learned a long time ago do not talk to the Indians talk to the chief and it has worked for many years.  Just my 2 cents


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## miniman (May 27, 2008)

Many years ago we wrote a letter stating what we were unhappy about with a recent experience at a pizza resturant (national chain). We got a good reply back and vouchers for the same resturant chain - we were very ambivelent about going back. I think we eventually used them in another town, but it was over a year later.


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## Andy M. (May 27, 2008)

Some time ago, four of us went to the Olive Garden for a Sunday lunch.  The service was sub-par throughout.  Apps didn't come until after the entree, wrong entrees, etc.

I sent an email to the home office and received an immediate apology.  The also sent me a $50 gift certificate and asked me to please go back and try it again.

S.O. and I went back again and had an excellent experience.  I sent another email telling them so and praising the waitress we had (by name).

Olive Garden thanked me and said they appreciated the positive feedback as they only ever get complaints.


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## bowlingshirt (May 27, 2008)

pitiful......


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## Andy M. (May 27, 2008)

bowlingshirt said:


> pitiful......


 

Would you clarify?


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## In the Kitchen (May 27, 2008)

bowlingshirt said:


> pitiful......





????????????


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## In the Kitchen (May 27, 2008)

Dave Hutchins said:


> If I have been given shoddy service or poor food/service.  If it is a chain I go to my PC and git the home address and write them a ""nice "" letter describing my problem and it has worked wonders.  Some tail feathers I am sure were burnt beyond recognition but on further visits My service improved remarkably, and food was some what improved.
> I learned a long time ago do not talk to the Indians talk to the chief and it has worked for many years.  Just my 2 cents



Works most of the time, if they care about maintaining their business.  Too many just forget about it and have the same thing happen the NEXT  time.  Like children, have to keep on bringing attention to something not right.  Just keep on bringing attention, bringing attention, bringing attention to something not being done right; finally, after so many times the problem will be given attention.   BUT got to keep on keepin on complaining.


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## Fisher's Mom (May 27, 2008)

Andy M. said:


> Some time ago, four of us went to the Olive Garden for a Sunday lunch.  The service was sub-par throughout.  Apps didn't come until after the entree, wrong entrees, etc.
> 
> I sent an email to the home office and received an immediate apology.  The also sent me a $50 gift certificate and asked me to please go back and try it again.
> 
> ...


Such a good point, Andy. I usually take the time to seek out a manager and make them aware of exceptionally good service or food. There is always a moment of tension when I first ask to speak to a manager. It's because they rarely get called aside for a compliment - only complaints.

The extra bonus in taking the time to do this is I am almost always welcomed warmly on return visits and given great service. They really remember someone complimenting their establishment.


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## GB (May 27, 2008)

It is true that too many people are so quick to complain, but not to compliment. 

We went out to dinner a few nights ago. There was a 20 minute wait. We were with my folks and my kids as well. The hostess actually bumped us up in the list when a secluded table opened up. She said she has young kids too and knew this would be the perfect spot for us and didn't want us to have to wait. She acted purely out of the kindness of her heart and it really helped us tremendously. My wife made sure to ask her name on the way out so she could tell the owner how well she treated us and that because of her we will be back more often. I need to find out if she actually ever did call.


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## redkitty (May 27, 2008)

Try living in England where customer service doesn't exist at all!!!


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## miniman (May 27, 2008)

redkitty said:


> Try living in England where customer service doesn't exist at all!!!


 
Not quite - I admit it can be a desert for customer service - but I have also had very good customer service.


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## quicksilver (May 27, 2008)

I've been lucky i guess, or I don' tget out much, or I only go to places recommended.
     I only had 2 occasions where I actually walked out. 2 food places. And then my (now Ex-) husband made me the bad guy for returning meat/fish.
Nothing but korean nail people here, and after many tries at various places, speaking engish and not, and paying tons of money, just like being short (5'3") I resigned myself that it wasn't gonna happen.
Cell phone use though, to me, is not acceptable. I keep for emergencies only. But I've alway said I'm a dinosaur.Manners are not. 

Sorry for your troubles.
But we're all still waiting for bowlingshirt's comment - "pitiful".


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## jpmcgrew (May 27, 2008)

One thing for sure is whether it's in person or on the internet I always complain very diplomatically you get more with sugar than vinegar. If you start screaming or get nasty you usually get nothing in return but if you are nice and polite most always people will bend over backwards to make it right.


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## GB (May 27, 2008)

jpmcgrew said:


> One thing for sure is whether it's in person or on the internet I always complain very diplomatically you get more with sugar than vinegar. If you start screaming or get nasty you usually get nothing in return but if you are nice and polite most always people will bend over backwards to make it right.


While I agree that it is better to complain the way you describe, I do not agree that nasty people usually get nothing in return. I have witnessed on many occasions a nasty complainer getting comped dishes, meals, coupons for free meals on return visits, and all sorts of other freebies. I have seen managers bend over backward, sometimes even more so for those people than the ones who act appropriately. I have seen the polite people get nothing at all or very little while the nasty person gets more. This does not happen every time, but it sure does happen. 

There is no doubt that acting polite is the better way to go, but not because of what you may or may not get as far as comps.


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## babetoo (May 27, 2008)

i start out polite. if that doesn't work, i complain a little louder. mostly at the doctors office. the squeaky wheel gets the oil

babe


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## expatgirl (May 27, 2008)

babetoo said:


> i start out polite. if that doesn't work, i complain a little louder. mostly at the doctors office. the squeaky wheel gets the oil
> 
> babe



I worked in a major ENT clinic in Houston and believe me the patients who squeaked got the service........one customer who was a major real estate agent  in Houston walked thru the door, said she was there for Dr. s.........and barked that  she'd be ****ed if she'd wait (this is a Dr. whose office booked patients two at a time every 15 minutes0--in front of her I dialed the doctors office and repeated word for word what she said......she looked at me with some  pride....she'll be ****ed if she waits and they said "send her on back"  she smiled at me and down the hall she marched..........I laughed, too...what a lady with an attitude........


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## MexicoKaren (May 27, 2008)

Does anyone remember the Seinfeld episode where Elaine was convinced that the Korean manicurists were talking about her? Sure enough, they were....LOL.

I was at the grocery store awhile back and the two clerks (one checking, one bagging) were having quite a conversation about the contents of my grocery cart, in Spanish, of course.  Nothing really uncomplimentary, but things like "She must have a very grand house," and "she is buying lots of very expensive food." When they were done, I asked them_, in Spanish,_ to please validate my parking ticket and thanked them for their service. Their  mouths were still hanging open when I left.


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## quicksilver (May 28, 2008)

_     This reminded me of a couple, maybe 5, years ago._
_I grew up on Celantano frozen ravioli s, so I of course bought them also.  But they became very doughy, very little filling and not held together well._
_So I called there 800 #, voiced the same, and the cust. service person apologized and said they'd send me a $1.00 coupon for my next package. I was AGHAST! and said, what are you kidding. Didn't you just hear me. Keep your coupon. I'm not buying anymore, not even if they're free._

_How confused she was! (she must not cook) I haven't bought more and make my own with wonton wrappers and stuff the heck out of them._
_Oh my, I haven't made in a while and am getting hungry._
_I'll have to pull sauce and wrappers out of the freezer for tonight. And post in what's for dinner tonight._


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## LEFSElover (May 28, 2008)

I'm on the phone still now with TMobile
I am furious with them.
been on hold for ever.
they don't care.
I've already cried too many times today.
was on phone with them from midnight to 2 am this morning, still nothing.
on hold, now how much customer service does that show?
none.
I just told the girl my story which was why I was calling still or again, she said, "So what do you want me to tell the supervisor?"  I said, "Did you not hear what I've just told you? I am on now with supervisor Tim who is trying to help but I am a sceptic.

More later when this is resolved.


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## LEFSElover (May 28, 2008)

No resolve.
No resolution.
No nothing fixed.
DH has paid $250 for this service.
He will now have to pay $200 for getting out of the contract.
So two months worth of " NO service " service is going to cost us $450.
My gosh, what is customer service?  It is customer NO SERVICE.
T Mobil is going to be cut off at any cost, I couldn't care less.
It will cost us about $650 to get out of T Mobil but maybe another carrier will care.  I don't know nor do I care.
Okay, I'm done.


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## expatgirl (May 28, 2008)

MexicoKaren said:


> Does anyone remember the Seinfeld episode where Elaine was convinced that the Korean manicurists were talking about her? Sure enough, they were....LOL.
> 
> I was at the grocery store awhile back and the two clerks (one checking, one bagging) were having quite a conversation about the contents of my grocery cart, in Spanish, of course.  Nothing really uncomplimentary, but things like "She must have a very grand house," and "she is buying lots of very expensive food." When they were done, I asked them_, in Spanish,_ to please validate my parking ticket and thanked them for their service. Their  mouths were still hanging open when I left.



I had a high school biology teacher (well also chemistry) and so I knew her well.   One morning 2 girls were  bad mouthing her left and right (her classes were difficult to day the least) and she was miles away.......anyway she finally walked up to the Science building looked them straight in eyes and repeated word for word what they had said.  Their mouths dropped to their knees........she informed them to cover their mouths the next time as she wouldn't be able to "read their lips" ....she had been a nurse at Pearl Harbor when it was bombed during WWII and had learned to read lips due to significant hearing impairment.  What a woman..........

Way to go, Vera!!!


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## Bigjim68 (May 28, 2008)

I love comeuppance stories. Trouble is, most "service people" fall into the category of too dumb to know they are dumb, so it is lost on them.  Circuit City has gone from a company selling off the back of trucks with good service, to a company with excellent service, to a company with bad service.  In the meantime, I have watched their stock fall from 100 to 4, and they still don't get it. Unfortunatey, they are not an exception.


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## quicksilver (May 28, 2008)

Same thing with Home Depot Bg68. They used to be # 1 . Then the good people left for better $$ and more employee friendly # 2 Lowes. Now they're # 1.

Mom couldn't hear out of her left ear. She learned to do the same. Boy, did we learn fast with shiny rear-ends!


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## ronjohn55 (May 28, 2008)

I hate customer service. I was a "Customer Service Manager" aka factory rep for one of the big three. I *lived* the job 5 days a week for 3 years. 

I got cussed out, threatened, and even had someone take a swing at me. Best decision I ever made was to get out of that racket. 

That being said... I always try to be pleasant to people inb the service industry, because I know the job I have. Often, it's returned. when it's not. Oooh boy, can I be a word I can't use on this site. 

Of course, my rule of thumb... never mess with the people bringing you your food and drinks until you're done ordering! 

John


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## expatgirl (May 28, 2008)

smart boy, ronjohn............and probably healthier


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## In the Kitchen (May 29, 2008)

Could someone give me explanation as t o why another language is permitted in this country?  When my folks came here they HAD to learn the language.  Not perfect , but could communicate!  Being in any job requires communication.


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## LEFSElover (May 29, 2008)

In the Kitchen said:


> Could someone give me explanation as t o why another language is permitted in this country?  When my folks came here they HAD to learn the language.  Not perfect , but could communicate!  Being in any job requires communication.


Oh don't even get me started on this.
Funny dumb me, I thought I lived in the good ole US of A.  Not Mexico
A lady walked in to my salon one day, spoke only Spanish, I was the only one there and she was trying to ask me something, which not speaking Spanish I had no idea where she was going with her words.  I kept saying No Espanole, English por favor.  She kept up with her Espanole and I finally said, in English, duh, "Maam, you're in America, you need to speak English here."  Not that she understood but I felt a bunch better, I then hugged her because I knew she was having a hard time.


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## buckytom (May 29, 2008)

i really hope she wasn't telling you that she has poison ivy, lefse...


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## In the Kitchen (May 29, 2008)

LEFSElover said:


> Oh don't even get me started on this.
> Funny dumb me, I thought I lived in the good ole US of A.  Not Mexico
> A lady walked in to my salon one day, spoke only Spanish, I was the only one there and she was trying to ask me something, which not speaking Spanish I had no idea where she was going with her words.  I kept saying No Espanole, English por favor.  She kept up with her Espanole and I finally said, in English, duh, "Maam, you're in America, you need to speak English here."  Not that she understood but I felt a bunch better, I then hugged her because I knew she was having a hard time.



I was reluctant to bring up my parents and their life with trying to communicate.  Received great deal of ridicule but they said this is America and we have to do accordingly.  

I am so thankful LEFSElover that you talked about having an experience like this because it makes me feel better.  Better because I know my parents would have done what you expected.  When you wanted to tell her you never understood, why did she continue?  I have that in the store lot of times.  I shrug my shoulders and tell them I don't know but they continue like I SHOULD know what they want.  They are the ones who should try to understand you.  I AM SORRY but I just  don't think this is RIGHT!  I remember Ross Perot and Pat Buchanan would have had some kind of rule about this. Thanks LEFSElover for making me feel like I am not alone.  AT least I know there is someone else that shares my aggravation.  I know it is experience you won't forget.


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## MexicoKaren (May 29, 2008)

I think we may be getting dangerously close to politics here, but I just want to share that we are having the exact opposite experience here in Mexico. We live in a small town where very few people speak English. Since we are guests here, we feel it is our obligation to learn Spanish and we are really really trying, believe me. We've been taking classes for two years. Everyone is very kind about our efforts and helps us along. If you want to pay your electric bill, go to the hardware store, employ workers to fix your plumbing, go to the gas station, you have to be able to speak the language. We are doing better all the time, but are by no means fluent. We are at the stage where we can ask about any question, but might not understand the answers!


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## Andy M. (May 29, 2008)

Karen, I salute you and your hubby for realizing you are guests in another country and making the effort to learn their language.


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## MexicoKaren (May 29, 2008)

Oh golly, thanks, Andy!


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## quicksilver (May 29, 2008)

_   I agree with Andy. It would be my obligation to make the effort, if in a non-english speaking country._


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## In the Kitchen (May 29, 2008)

See?  You people see things the way they should be!  Has the amount of people coming in to the United States been so many and so fast that they can't really explain to them what is expected?  Must be some break somewhere that isn't being t ended to.  I thought that is how it works that you want to blend in not stand out and cause confusion.  Only my  opinion.


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## MexicoKaren (May 29, 2008)

I think there have always been enclaves of immigrants in the US who continue to speak their native languages and uphold their own customs, especially in larger cities. My grandparents came to the US on 1905, and never really spoke much English. German was my Dad's first language, and by going to school, he learned to speak English well. I know people whose families emigrated from Italy, Poland, Belgium - many of them never learned to speak English.


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## LEFSElover (May 29, 2008)

My grandparents had a hard time at first due to being Norwegian. But soon they learned [to make it here] you had to act like [you wanted to be here/fit in/not stick out like a foreigner]. They were both successful but I think back then, it was different. Now, it's almost rude for us to get annoyed [if that's even the right word] when they openly speak in their language like it's their country where they're from. It's not, it's America. Everyone seems to have forgotten that and as for politics, I don't, repeat don't believe in political correctness. I personally think we've all backed way down for way too long. And if that's wrong of me to say, MODS erase please. But for me and my family, fly that flag Ole Glory and let her wave proudly just like she does *real high* in my own front yard.

My sons fiance, is Polish from Poland as are her wonderful parents who speak the language as well as anyone here.  They are both PHD's but knew to make it here in this country, they'd better at least learn the language.


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## babetoo (May 29, 2008)

LEFSElover said:


> My grandparents had a hard time at first due to being Norwegian. But soon they learned [to make it here] you had to act like [you wanted to be here/fit in/not stick out like a foreigner]. They were both successful but I think back then, it was different. Now, it's almost rude for us to get annoyed [if that's even the right word] when they openly speak in their language like it's their country where they're from. It's not, it's America. Everyone seem to have forgotten that and as for politics, I don't, repeat don't believe in political correctness. I personally think we've all backed way down for way too long. And if that's wrong of me to say, MODS erase please. But for me and my family, fly that flag Ole Glory and let her wave proudly just like she does real high in my own front yard.
> 
> My sons fiance, is Polish from Poland as are her wonderful parents who speak the language as well as anyone here. They are both PHD's but knew to make it here in this country, they'd better at least learn the language.


 
i think u are totally right. no english speakers are a big problem here in ca.
i think the powers that be have given up. everything and even our ballots are in english and spanish. several others are given as well, don't know the names of the rest. 

this is america.

babe


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## LEFSElover (May 29, 2008)

babetoo said:


> i think u are totally right. no english speakers are a big problem here in ca.
> i think the powers that be have given up. everything and even our ballots are in english and spanish. several others are given as well, don't know the names of the rest. this is america.


it's hard to know these days if it's ok to speak your mind.  I have no trouble doing that but being offensive to my friends isn't something I would knowingly do.


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## jpmcgrew (May 29, 2008)

I was better with German than English when we came from Germany I was ten years old. Of course I learned the language I had to. I think that when you decide to live in any country you need to at least master the basics and then some if you want to function in that country. Those that will not learn the language are either arrogant or lazy or still too attached to the country they came from if thats the case then just stay there. You should not expect to move to another country and decide not to accept it's ways and yet benefit from all the things you will appreciate that you did not have in your former country.It's almost a slap in the face if someone comes to the states and refuses to learn our language and the insists their children should be taught in school with their native language and so on. Kids learn faster than anyone a new language.  Even a foreigner that is just visiting will try to learn a few words and phrases to get by. The only people that may move here that should get some slack is the old grandparent maybe 75 or older. 
I also do not appreciate foreigners who move here and refuse to have anything to do with the natives of a country, not learn the language/customs and just stay in their own neighborhoods because they may hate Americans but still want the American Dream. This doe's not mean you still can't celebrate your own heritage, customs etc but to accept and still be proud to be here. That is why we call America the Melting Pot. 
I know not all foreigners are that way and I for one love meeting and becoming great friends with people from all over the world and learning from each other especially as most of us here a new great recipe.


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## Andy M. (May 29, 2008)

While the discussion of immigration and language is interesting, it is substantially *OFF TOPIC.*

Let's get back to the subject at hand, which is customer service.


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## jpmcgrew (May 29, 2008)

Gotcha! As usual I have yet again crossed the line. Sorry! I never realize that is what I have done until I get yet another reprimand.  I honestly thought I was going along with the thread. I guess I need to get in line to Doves wood shed.


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## LEFSElover (May 30, 2008)

jpmcgrew said:


> Gotcha! As usual I have yet again crossed the line. Sorry! I never realize that is what I have done until I get yet another reprimand.  I honestly thought I was going along with the thread. I guess I need to get in line to Doves wood shed.


Oh me too.  But I was at least, in the waiting line for reprimand.  These words came later than expected.


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## GB (May 30, 2008)

No one did anything wrong. These threads sometimes take on a life of their own and the natural course of the conversation changes. We all just sometimes need a reminder of what the original topic was about so we can get back on track. Andy was not reprimanding anyone, just reminding them.


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## MexicoKaren (May 30, 2008)

Thanks, GB, for trying to make everyone feel better! This is such an amazing board - a big round of applause to all of you who gently keep us on track and make it such a warm and friendly place to be.


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## buckytom (May 30, 2008)

that's good administrative customer service!


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## LEFSElover (May 30, 2008)

I think this usually cold Norwegian just got a little hot under the collar is all.  I'd say forgive me, but it'd be, uh, well.......................nothing to forgive, thanks for the calm though....


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## In the Kitchen (May 30, 2008)

GB said:


> No one did anything wrong. These threads sometimes take on a life of their own and the natural course of the conversation changes. We all just sometimes need a reminder of what the original topic was about so we can get back on track. Andy was not reprimanding anyone, just reminding them.



I admit I am guilty of this but I just don't take the time to start a new topic rather feel it relates to what the discussion is about.  GB, it sure is upsetting when I go to a store and the people at the customer service do not know how to respond to me and I have to tell them to call their supervisor or boss man as they tell me.  Seems it takes more time AND money to have someone who cannot understand or speak English.  I feel putting them in Customer Service is good idea as they will learn this way, but if they continue speaking their own native language when not on the job I feel this is waste.  GB, you tell me how you feel?  I think JPMCGREW made outstanding comments, guess that is off topic too.  I apologize about going off topic and do not do it intentionally.  I just write the way I have a conversation; guess that is not right either.  I don't want to intentionally upset anyone.  Certainly grateful I do know English.


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## Andy M. (May 30, 2008)

I didn't intend my post to convey anger. It was just a reminder to change direction and was not directed at any one person.

All this apologizing is off topic. Can we gat back to the OP's question?


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## Bigjim68 (May 30, 2008)

Mexican Karen: It is one thing to live in an enclave where you feel comfortable. It is another thing to expect me to learn a new language so that I can communicate with non english speaking people in my country. Some companies that I deal with are offering spanish lessons so that their supervisors can communicate with the employees. Wouldn't it be better to conduct lessons in english so that employees could communicate with the supervisors and customers? This carries over to the topic. Any employee dealing with the customer should have good english language skills, know the product, project a good company image, and address ths issue in a timely manner. Anyone who has waited on the phone for an hour for an answer to a question only to get a barely fluent person with no idea what you are talking about, knows what I am talking about


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## GB (May 30, 2008)

The problem is that with these nail places at least, there is no reason for the employees to change what they are doing. They give lousy service by not speaking English to their English speaking customers and those same customers go right back and buy their services every week. Why would they change what they are doing when it is working for them?


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## LEFSElover (May 30, 2008)

GB said:


> The problem is that with these nail places at least, there is no reason for the employees to change what they are doing. They give lousy service by not speaking English to their English speaking customers and those same customers go right back and buy their services every week. Why would they change what they are doing when it is working for them?


I went in one day to one of those non English nail places simply because I didn't want to go into the shop on my day off nor did I want to stink up my own house. Husband is distainful of that smell and now being away from it, I understand why. So went in, a man said "his wife couldn't 'do' me". He asked what I did for a living, I told him my profession and he asked me if I wanted a pedicure. I said, "Oh heck no, but you may want me to do one on you." [I specialized in peds for many years, they took 2 hours and was paid accordingly]. Anyway, he laughed and proceeded to talk about me to all the gals in the shop, they'd all look at me, talk in their language, laugh some more, and then look at me.  It was all very obvious what they were saying. I asked him if he'd watched Seinfeld and he didn't understand what I meant. I said, "bet you don't, but I understand completely what's going on in here." With that I left, never to return. << Plus my nails all lifted which added insult to injury or is it infury?


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## In the Kitchen (May 30, 2008)

Well, I can sure tell I am not ALONE when it comes to Customer Service and especially when they speak different language.  I truly am sorry to hear all this but someone said they are going to have to learn Spanish?  Or did I read it wrong?  What is the government trying to do to this country?  As long as the ones who are in control do not experience the same anxiety that we do.  We have only lived here all our lives!  I just got back from grocery shopping for my brother and this woman with older lady maybe her mother started talking about what I had in my basket.  How did I know they were pointing at it and commenting.  Only way I could tell.  I finally asked if they wanted to know something about my groceries?  The younger woman shrugged and both of them laughed.  What was funny about that?  Do they make some kind of agreement that they are going to try to cause us frustration before they come here?  They have just as many rights as we do if they are US CITIZENS.  

I guess it is very hot today and I can't turn on A/C unless it gets past 90 degrees.  Have to think of paying for gas first then the A/C.


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## Fisher's Mom (May 30, 2008)

This language thing doesn't bother me much. It _does_ play into my decisions about which businesses to patronize, though. I have always thought that businesses where most of the employees don't speak English are really not marketing to English speakers anyway. I think they are filling what they believe is a market serving non-English speaking patrons. That's OK with me. I'm not obliged to go there if I don't feel comfortable. Rude behavior is rude behavior in any language and I don't go back if I am treated rudely.

I generally won't use the services of a non-English speaker _if_ I feel communication is critical for that service. For example, we have many physicians in San Antonio (since there's a med school here) who have _very_ poor English. I don't choose them or allow them to treat me or my family since communication is critical to treatment. But if it is a service that doesn't require a lot of verbal discussion, it's OK by me if the person I hire doesn't speak English well.


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## VeraBlue (May 30, 2008)

GB said:


> The problem is that with these nail places at least, there is no reason for the employees to change what they are doing. They give lousy service by not speaking English to their English speaking customers and those same customers go right back and buy their services every week. Why would they change what they are doing when it is working for them?



I live 10 minutes from NYC in a nice suburb in NJ...  I've tried no less than 8 salon near where I live (and there are at least 20 within a 5 mile radius).  I encounter the same Korean thing everywhere I go.  I'm resigned to pay for the procedure, but not tip for service.  You should have seen the manicurist's face when I left last Thursday without giving her a tip.  She got it....let's see if it made an impression.


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## GB (May 31, 2008)

I am not saying that it is fair or right Vera, but things will not change if patrons continue to go there. I am also not saying you should stop. I patronize places that give me horrible service because I greatly enjoy when they offer and I am willing to put up with the bad to get it. Me and everyone else could boycott the place and they would have no choice, but to change or go out of business, but I am not willing to give up what they offer to do that. I am willing to deal with their bad things to get their good though.


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## miniman (May 31, 2008)

On a slightly different note, a lot of UK companies have call centres based in India. My problem with this is that you deal with a person speaking a different variant of English, fairly heavily accented and who does not understand the way the business works in the UK as they have not experienced it.


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## expatgirl (May 31, 2008)

ok, speaking about subpar customer service......I'm only in the states twice a year.....requested and filled out an online form for Luthansa's Miles for More card---we give them LOTS of business....supposed to have come in Jan.......did not........requested it again.....been home now for 3 weeks and still no card.........called and made new request which warranted a cancellation of the old request and the issuing of the new card.........5 days later am informed by mail that it will be an additional 6 weeks before I get it.......called rep and complained that I would not be here in 6 weeks and could they expedite it via courier service......no we can't butwe'll  send it to K. ----no, I  said you can't send  it directly to K. ---that's not the address I gave them and I probably wouldn't get it anyway.......well, I'm really sorry but there's nothing I can do about it she said.......oh, contrare........yes, there is something Lufthansa can do about it.....you can FedEX me the card that should have been sent to me in January.......Please, I need to speak with one of your supervisors.....now I'm polite thru all of this grass-fueled you know what.....but I'm getting a bit short on patience......so I'm put on hold......who isn't these days.......have a book and Judge Judge Judy to distract me.....so I patiently waited.......well back comes on the same person (who was a bit difficult to understand in the first place) and she informs me that SHE spoke to the supervisor and like she knew she was right in the first place there was nothing that they could do about it..........now I had lost patience........excuse me but I told you that I wanted to talk to the supervisor myself and resolve this issue.......Lufthansa has a hub in Houston and I know for a fact that they can take care  of this via the FedEX or other fast mailing service......they ARE going to send me a card before I leave.....otherwise I will report them to a well-known traveling site that resolves customer's legitimate issues.  The girl confirmed the fact that they had received the request back in January.  I still have doubts that she even talked to a supervisor in the first place.  Thanks for listening.....feel better already......


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## VeraBlue (May 31, 2008)

My next nail appointment is this Thursday, same time, 4:30.  We'll see if she learned anything when she realized she didn't get her tip.  Her work is professional, but that is what the hefty fee is for.  I have no problem paying that.  But, if she's going keep me waiting without an apology, take another customer during my appointment or take cell phone calls (or make them, as this case was) I won't tip again.
The woman who does the pedicure is of a different ethnic background, not sure that actually means anything....but, english isn't her first language either.  However, she tries to engage me in light conversation, inquires about my day, etc....and remembers how I like my nails shaped.  She does a professional job, and gives me the extra service that I like.  It's a no-brainer, if you ask me.
I'm tired of automatically tipping when all I got was what I paid for, in the first place.  It's unfortunate that some salaries are so low that management expects their employees will meet cost of living standards by being tipped.  I have no problems tipping.  Employees, however, should remember that the tip is extra, not part of the fee.  
Perhaps if more people withheld the tip for merely adequate service, then maybe we'd actually get better customer service, again.


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## In the Kitchen (May 31, 2008)

*Supervisor?*

Whenever, which seems like always, I ask to speak to someone who is their boss (hoping I can communicate with the boss)  As you said, waiting, waiting, she comes on phone and tells me the supervisor is busy and could they call me later.  Okay.  Never did get a call.  So call again, have record of complaint and response is that they will take care of it.  I don't know if it was resolved or not and honestly at this point I do give up.  Wanted to tell you the names of the companies so you would be aware but maybe someone would call them and let them know I was unhappy?  I relate so much to this problem it really gets me down.  

Sorry, you are all such well meaning people and deserve better.


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## expatgirl (May 31, 2008)

Better be careful, Verablue, I quit using the nail places in K. cause' I contracted staph infections on two different visits........that's why my toenails were badly in need of a pedicure....hope that you resolve everything and get the service you want.......


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## buckytom (May 31, 2008)

how do you say "here come rady with big feet and tiny purse" in korean?


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## expatgirl (May 31, 2008)

In the Kitchen said:


> Whenever, which seems like always, I ask to speak to someone who is their boss (hoping I can communicate with the boss)  As you said, waiting, waiting, she comes on phone and tells me the supervisor is busy and could they call me later.  Okay.  Never did get a call.  So call again, have record of complaint and response is that they will take care of it.  I don't know if it was resolved or not and honestly at this point I do give up.  Wanted to tell you the names of the companies so you would be aware but maybe someone would call them and let them know I was unhappy?  I relate so much to this problem it really gets me down.
> 
> Sorry, you are all such well meaning people and deserve better.




oh, I hear you and they are going to regret when I sic my rabid hubby on them...........he foams at the mouth over stuff like this.......I tried to take care of it myself and be firm but you really don't want him barking up your tree...and believe me we will get our card




just wished they would have jumped at my bark..........sniff........


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## VeraBlue (May 31, 2008)

buckytom said:


> how do you say "here come rady with big feet and tiny purse" in korean?



size 7, dollface...not rady with big feet.  My feet are the foot fetishists' dream...  My purse, however, is tight....indeed.


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## expatgirl (May 31, 2008)

In the Kitchen said:


> Whenever, which seems like always, I ask to speak to someone who is their boss (hoping I can communicate with the boss)  As you said, waiting, waiting, she comes on phone and tells me the supervisor is busy and could they call me later.  Okay.  Never did get a call.  So call again, have record of complaint and response is that they will take care of it.  I don't know if it was resolved or not and honestly at this point I do give up.  Wanted to tell you the names of the companies so you would be aware but maybe someone would call them and let them know I was unhappy?  I relate so much to this problem it really gets me down.
> 
> Sorry, you are all such well meaning people and deserve better.


you want me to sic my hubby, Fido, on them, In the Kitchen.?......he is not a really nice person if  he thinks customer service is less than stellar and he's gotten the run around which is definitely what I've  gotten.....that's why the Lufthansa rep is going to have their worst day tomorrow......I just wished it was going to be her....she was so snotty and condescending.........the fact that she didn't even hook me up with a supervisor and informed me that he agreed with her spoke a lot about her arrogance.......


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