# Cooking time advice



## schlipfee

I am making a stuffed pork loin for Xmas Dinner. For 30 people. I'm going to use 12 pounds of Pork loin cut into 4. Will this even fit in my oven all at once. I have a standard size oven. Also how long to cook it for?


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## Andy M.

Don't put them too close together on one shelf.  Better to put two on each of two shelves if they will fit.


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## Kayelle

In addition to what Andy said, I'd also rotate the pans from front to back. Cook it to 145 degrees with a thermometer, and don't over cook.
This is an important link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/dining/porks-safe-cooking-temperature-is-lowered.html


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## Andy M.

Pork loin is very lean.  That can lead to dry meat if they are overcooked.  

I recommend three preventative steps:  
1.  brine the loins overnight then rinse them off and dry them before roasting.  
2.  145ºF is the recommended doneness temp for lean pork.  However, you should take the loins out 5-10ºF before that temp as the interior temperature will continue to rise from carry-over cooking.  
3.  Let the meat rest, loosely covered for 15-20 minutes so juices can be re-absorbed into the muscle cells resulting in a juicier roast.

While the meat is resting, make a delicious gravy with the pan drippings.


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## Kayelle

Excellent point about brining Andy. Today's lean pork absolutely needs to be brined. The difference is stunning.


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## puffin3

Don't use regular table salt in the brine.
I recommend Kosher salt.


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## jennyema

Personally for something like brining, table or kosher salt both work equally well. , IMO.

You just have to  get the salt/water ratios right, as they are very different for table vs. kosher salt.


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## jennyema

schlipfee said:


> I am making a stuffed pork loin for Xmas Dinner.


 

What is it stuffed with?

This can affect the necessary cooking time...


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## Greg Who Cooks

Andy M. said:


> 2.  145ºF is the recommended doneness temp for lean pork.  However, you should take the loins out 5-10ºF before that temp as the interior temperature will continue to rise from carry-over cooking.



Exactly what I was going to point out until I reached reading your post. I did some roast pork a couple weeks ago and for some reason the continued warming increased much more than I expected, and the pork was disappointingly dry. Coincidentally I'm having a roast, stuffed pork chop tonight and I'm definitely removing it at 135ºF, maybe even 130ºF.



jennyema said:


> Personally for something like brining, table or kosher salt both work equally well. , IMO.
> 
> You just have to  get the salt/water ratios right, as they are very different for table vs. kosher salt.



Salt is salt is salt, NaCL, sodium chloride. In solution there is absolutely NO difference in different types of salt, except such as "gourmet" or "specialty" salts which are chosen for their unusual impurities, or flavored salt.

Interestingly (or not, you decide) ALL salt is sea salt! Unless it came in on a meteorite all salt has its ultimate source as an ocean, whether a prehistoric ocean that became folded into the layers of the Earth's crust and mined, or of course what is usually called sea salt which is evaporated salt water from an ocean.

But admittedly I'm being picky, picky. "Sea salt" usually refers to salt made by filling a basin from the ocean, then closing the channel and waiting until the sun evaporates the water.

I have a conundrum regarding salt from dry lakes such as found in Death Valley and similar dry lakes in the Owens Valley and other locales. I suspect it is geologic salt eroded from the mountains around the valley enclosing the lake that was dissolved by rain and snow melt and eventually deposited in a basin with no outlets.



jennyema said:


> What is it stuffed with?
> 
> This can affect the necessary cooking time...



I'm wondering the same myself. My tonight's pork chop is stuffed... I think I'll stick the thermometer in the meat and cook as I described above.

If you wish to be doubly careful you could possibly nuke the stuffing to 145ºF, which is the FDA's generally accepted food serving safety standard. However, actual food safety in the real world depends not only on temperature but time at that temperature too.

For example, I use my Sous Vide ("water oven") to cook steaks to a done temperature of 120ºF, way below the 145ºF, but the cooking cycle is 3-4 hours, and temperature over time kills bacteria as well as a short exposure to 145ºF.


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## Kayelle

Greg Who Cooks said:


> Salt is salt is salt, NaCL, sodium chloride. In solution there is absolutely NO difference in different types of salt, except such as "gourmet" or "specialty" salts which are chosen for their unusual impurities, or flavored salt.



I think you missed the point Jenny was making about any salt for brining. Different salts simply *measure *differently. A brine recipe with the right ratio of a specific salt to water is crucial.


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## Andy M.

Kayelle said:


> I think you missed the point Jenny was making about any salt for brining. Different salts simply *measure *differently. A brine recipe with the right ratio of a specific salt to water is crucial.



Right, Kayelle.  The grain size is different among table salt, Mortons Kosher Salt and Diamond Crystal Kosher salt.  As a result, a cup of table salt is equivalent by weight to 1.5 cups of Mortons and 2 cups of Diamond Crystal.


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## Kayelle

Andy M. said:


> Right, Kayelle.  The grain size is different among table salt, Mortons Kosher Salt and Diamond Crystal Kosher salt.  As a result, a cup of table salt is equivalent by weight to 1.5 cups of Mortons and 2 cups of Diamond Crystal.



Wow, that's a huge difference Andy. Thanks. My go to brine for pork is 1/4 cup of Morton's Kosher, and 4 cups of water. I don't even have table salt anymore.  Sometimes I add herbs, but most times I don't.


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## Greg Who Cooks

Kayelle said:


> I think you missed the point Jenny was making about any salt for brining. Different salts simply *measure *differently. A brine recipe with the right ratio of a specific salt to water is crucial.



You *measure* salt by volume??? In a marinade or brine???

Sheesh, I measure by what fits in my hand. I measure by what looks right.

Maybe in baking you need measures. (You do.) But there are so many recipes where your eyes or your hand are more than adequate.


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## Andy M.

Greg Who Cooks said:


> You *measure* salt by volume??? In a marinade or brine???
> 
> Sheesh, I measure by what fits in my hand. I measure by what looks right.
> 
> Maybe in baking you need measures. (You do.) But there are so many recipes where your eyes or your hand are more than adequate.



No need to take that attitude.  Different strokes...


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## GotGarlic

Greg Who Cooks said:


> I have a conundrum regarding salt from dry lakes such as found in Death Valley and similar dry lakes in the Owens Valley and other locales. I suspect it is geologic salt eroded from the mountains around the valley enclosing the lake that was dissolved by rain and snow melt and eventually deposited in a basin with no outlets.



Actually, eons ago, those areas were sea bottoms. That's where the salt came from.


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## Greg Who Cooks

Yeah, that's what I said.


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## Kayelle

Greg Who Cooks said:


> You *measure* salt by volume??? In a marinade or brine???
> 
> Sheesh, I measure by what fits in my hand. I measure by what looks right.
> 
> Maybe in baking you need measures. (You do.) But there are so many recipes where your eyes or your hand are more than adequate.



The subject at hand on *this* thread is *salt brining*, not marinade or baking.
Liberty can be taken with salt in marinade, *not *with brining. Yes, measurements on the ratio of specific salt to water in brining is necessary. I'm very surprised you don't know that. Just saying.


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## Cooking Goddess

Kayelle said:


> ...Yes, measurements on the ratio of specific salt to water in brining is necessary...



True, *Kayelle*. When I was working through my pickle recipe this summer, I learned that there is a huge difference between 1/2 cup of Kosher salt and 1/2 cup of pickling salt. (Keep in mind I haven't pickled anything since I last helped my Dad make dill pickles before I was married...in 1974.) Since I always have Kosher on hand, and it doesn't have any additives, I used that for the pickles the first time. Not really enough salt. I decided I needed a box of pickling salt. The 4# box of pickling salt was noticeably smaller than the 3# box of Kosher salt! It was easy to see how fine the pickling salt was compared to the flakes of Kosher salt. Thankfully, using pickling salt was just what was needed to achieve the proper salinity in the brine.


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## GotGarlic

Greg Who Cooks said:


> Yeah, that's what I said.



So what is the conundrum?


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## Greg Who Cooks

Kayelle said:


> I'm very surprised you don't know that. Just saying.



Oh pshaw! 



GotGarlic said:


> So what is the conundrum?



Beats the heck out of me. If I knew I'd tell ya!


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## GA Home Cook

Back to the actual subject....

I keep seeing the use of sugar during brine process.  Is that for a specific meat or just another preference?


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## jennyema

Sugar makes the brine taste more savory.

Ups the umami factor.


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## Kayelle

GA Home Cook said:


> Back to the actual subject....
> 
> I keep seeing the use of sugar during brine process.  Is that for a specific meat or just another preference?



For a brine, salt works without the sugar, although sugar won't work without salt. I have used sugar in the brine but I don't have sugar in my diet right now, so I don't use it. Actually, I don't notice a difference. Generally, the sugar is added for pork only.
Here's some concise info..
http://whatscookingamerica.net/Pork/BriningPork.htm


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## Andy M.

I use salt and sugar for turkey (along with other flavorings).


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## jennyema

Andy M. said:


> I use salt and sugar for turkey (along with other flavorings).


 
I also always use salt and sugar (and other flavors) with anything I brine -- poultry, pork, shrimp ...


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## Kayelle

That's good to know Andy and Jenny. The last time I actually cooked a turkey was years ago and brineing was unknown to me. I've always brined chicken breasts without sugar and I've never brined shrimp. I simply won't bother with lean pork unless I brine it.


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## Greg Who Cooks

jennyema said:


> Sugar makes the brine taste more savory.
> 
> Ups the umami factor.



Hate to tell ya but I'm pretty sure sugar and umami have nothing to do with each other.

The four traditional flavors are sweet, sour, salty and bitter. "Umami" is the fifth flavor, associated with our receptors specific to glutimate (AKA MSG).

I'm sorry to disagree but IMO adding sugar has nothing to do with "umami factor." It ups the sweetness factor. You need to add MSG if you want to up the umami factor. Or some other umami promoter.


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## GotGarlic

Sugar caramelizes when cooked, creating flavors that enhance the savory/umami flavors from the Maillard reaction.


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## Greg Who Cooks

People taste umami through specific umami receptors -- receptors for glutamate. I'd like to see how the Maillard reaction creates glutamates.


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## GotGarlic

Greg Who Cooks said:


> People taste umami through specific umami receptors -- receptors for glutamate. I'd like to see how the Maillard reaction creates glutamates.



I did not say the Maillard reaction creates glutamates; they're already present in the meat. I said the caramelization of the sugar *enhances* umami flavors.


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## Greg Who Cooks

Well umami flavors are those that are perceived by our umami (glutamate) receptors, so unless you are creating glutamates I don't see how your statement can be true.

Best I'll give you is "enhances flavors *similar* to *umami* flavors."

Unless you can show a relationship where the Maillard reaction creates more glutamates then your statement is patently incorrect. You need glutamates to taste umami, that's what the umami receptors are for.

If you think something enhances umami flavors, then please explain your reasoning.


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## GotGarlic

Greg Who Cooks said:


> Well umami flavors are those that are perceived by our umami (glutamate) receptors, so unless you are creating glutamates I don't see how your statement can be true.
> 
> Best I'll give you is "enhances flavors *similar* to *umami* flavors."
> 
> Unless you can show a relationship where the Maillard reaction creates more glutamates then your statement is patently incorrect. You need glutamates to taste umami, that's what the umami receptors are for.
> 
> If you think something enhances umami flavors, then please explain your reasoning.



Here's an example: Salt enhances the flavors of many foods - even sweet baked goods, yes? So it doesn't have to hit the sweet receptors in order to enhance the flavors. Flavors are more complex than 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Combining them makes them taste better.

I really couldn't care less what you'll "give me," though. Quit acting like you're the only one who knows about these things.


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## Greg Who Cooks

We have salty receptors.


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