# How can I tell if my ribs are done?



## cg1200

Just found this forum and am looking for some help. I've been cooking baby back ribs on a weber gas grill for the last few months. I get the temp up to about 200 degrees. I light the left most burner only and cook ribs on right side of grill away from heat (indirect). I use hickory wood chips in the smoker box and let cook for about 4 hours. The meat seems to shrink back from the bone but I've been finding the meat kinda tough. Are they over cooked or undercooked? I thought over-cooked ribs yielded meat that literally fell off the bone. I seem to have the opposite problem. Could they possibly need to cook longer? these are not huge baby back ribs. They don't taste bad it's just after 4 hours I would expect the meat to be very tender. What do you thinK? should i go longer or shorter?


----------



## Dave Hutchins

Much shorter and internal temp of 165-170 they should be done.  Try wraping them in plastic wrap and foil with the seasonings on them cook for a hour and a half then unwrap and finnish on the grill.  When you unwrap them the bone will be pulled back and you should be able to poke your finger through the meat with no trouble and they will be tender and fall of the bone.  Baby back ribs are not very big and should not take much cooking or high heat.


----------



## RPCookin

I made 2 racks of baby back ribs smoked on my Weber Genesis B (which was never designed for smoking). This is the method I used. I made a tray of heavy duty aluminum foil folded in 4 layers, about 1 foot long. Then I just turned on the front burner (of the 3), on high and put the smoker tray on the flavor bars under the grate right over the lit burner. I put some lightly wetted chips (not sure that the wetting is even necessary) in the tray and the ribs on the back half of the grate. To keep the temp down to about 220-230 I put a 10" landscaping spike under the corner of the lid to keep it open about 1/2 inch. I just watched the thermometer, played with the burner to keep the temp right, and added chips as needed for about 4 hours. All I can say is WOW!!! 

I used a fairly generic rub of chili powder, chile molido, brown sugar, oregano, paprika, black and white pepper, and kosher salt  Only for about the last 20 minutes did I finish them with my own sauce.

I smoked mine for 4 hours, and they were done perfectly, so it can be done on a regular gas grill.  One method I've heard of to check for doneness is to bend the rack, and if the meat "breaks", they are ready.  I've just been experimenting and finally seem to have found the right process.  So keep pluggin' and you should find the right combo for your setup.


----------



## kitchenelf

It sounds like they could possibly be overcooked.  Do they appear to be dried out?  Did you leave them in one big slab?


----------



## pacanis

cg1200 said:


> Just found this forum and am looking for some help. I've been cooking baby back ribs on a weber gas grill for the last few months. I get the temp up to about 200 degrees. I light the left most burner only and cook ribs on right side of grill away from heat (indirect). I use hickory wood chips in the smoker box and let cook for about 4 hours. The meat seems to shrink back from the bone but I've been finding the meat kinda tough. Are they over cooked or undercooked? I thought over-cooked ribs yielded meat that literally fell off the bone. I seem to have the opposite problem. Could they possibly need to cook longer? these are not huge baby back ribs. They don't taste bad it's just after 4 hours I would expect the meat to be very tender. What do you thinK? should i go longer or shorter?


 
A few months is way too long to be cooking your ribs for  
Oh wait, just read the rest of your post 

Welcome to the goup. My guess is the ribs are done because you said the meat is pulling back, but they may be dried out. After a couple hours of smoking, try wrapping them in a foil pouch with some cooking liquid; apple juice, pop, beer... then put them back on for another 1-1/2-2 hours. Unwrap, put them back on the grill and start saucing them for another 30 minutes. I've done them this way and they pick up enough smoke taste in the first two hours and are very moist. I use a four burner Ducane BTW.
That said, I think four hours is too long for baby backs without wrapping them during some porion of their cooking. I "smoked" country style ribs last night without wrapping and they were done after four hours. For all the time involved with smoking, the jury is still out (for me) if they aren't just as good using faster methods.


----------



## Uncle Bob

200* is too cool, and 4 hours is too long at that temperature to BBQ loin back ribs. The ribs are over cooked, and dehydrated...dry and chewy. Kick your temperature up to 240-250* and cut your cooking time in half...


----------



## cg1200

Uncle Bob said:


> 200* is too cool, and 4 hours is too long at that temperature to BBQ loin back ribs. The ribs are over cooked, and dehydrated...dry and chewy. Kick your temperature up to 240-250* and cut your cooking time in half...


 
Exactly - dehydrated, dry and chewy. 2 hours seems so short but it certainly seems like the meat is overcooked. The ribs are relatively small so I don't cut them in half. Would that help?

Also i find it difficult to get a meat thermometer into the ribs to get an accurate reading.


----------



## cg1200

kitchenelf said:


> It sounds like they could possibly be overcooked. Do they appear to be dried out? Did you leave them in one big slab?


 
My confusion is I keep reading that if ribs are overcooked the turn to mush and the meat comes off the bone too easily. Mine are slightly chewy and a bit tough. 

Each rack is about the length of your elbow to the tips of your fingers. I didn't cut them in half. I baste them every 30 minutes with a mixture of Worcestershire and olive oil.


----------



## Dina

I'd wrap them in foil with your marinade or bbq sauce for the first hour or so then smoke/grill them for flavor.  You can never go wrong with this method.


----------



## Uncle Bob

cg1200 said:


> Exactly - dehydrated, dry and chewy. 2 hours seems so short but it certainly seems like the meat is overcooked. The ribs are relatively small so I don't cut them in half. Would that help?
> 
> Also i find it difficult to get a meat thermometer into the ribs to get an accurate reading.


 
No... Cutting them in half would really serve no purpose here. Only if they want fit your cooking surface would it be of any benefit. Don't confuse loin back ribs with spare ribs where longer cooking times of 4 1/2 to 5 hours are needed at times...While the loin backs can be succussfully cooked (BBQed) for that period of time...IMO they are better cooked hotter and faster with less time on the grill to over cook, dry out, dehydrate, etc. They can even be grilled to perfection ...See the link below. 


http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f38/charcoal-grilled-ribs-48100.html


----------



## cg1200

RPCookin said:


> I made 2 racks of baby back ribs smoked on my Weber Genesis B (which was never designed for smoking). This is the method I used. I made a tray of heavy duty aluminum foil folded in 4 layers, about 1 foot long. Then I just turned on the front burner (of the 3), on high and put the smoker tray on the flavor bars under the grate right over the lit burner. I put some lightly wetted chips (not sure that the wetting is even necessary) in the tray and the ribs on the back half of the grate. To keep the temp down to about 220-230 I put a 10" landscaping spike under the corner of the lid to keep it open about 1/2 inch. I just watched the thermometer, played with the burner to keep the temp right, and added chips as needed for about 4 hours. All I can say is WOW!!!
> 
> I used a fairly generic rub of chili powder, chile molido, brown sugar, oregano, paprika, black and white pepper, and kosher salt Only for about the last 20 minutes did I finish them with my own sauce.
> 
> I smoked mine for 4 hours, and they were done perfectly, so it can be done on a regular gas grill. One method I've heard of to check for doneness is to bend the rack, and if the meat "breaks", they are ready. I've just been experimenting and finally seem to have found the right process. So keep pluggin' and you should find the right combo for your setup.


 
I followed almost the same formula here but mine were on the tough side. Not shoe leather but definitely not fall off the bone tender either. Did you wrap your ribs in foil for any length of time? the consensus of the other posters seems to be 4 hours is too long for baby back ribs, yet yours came out great. 

I'll try wrapping in foil for the first 60-90, then smoke for another hour and see how they look. I'll also up my temp to 250*. Sound about right?


----------



## kitchenelf

Fall off the bone tender comes from ribs with more fat on them.  Baby backs are tender anyway and you don't want them fall off the bone anyway.  Now short ribs I do like when they are that tender!  When you smoke ribs (or anything for that matter) you have to go by "feel" or even temperature versus an exact recipe.  The reason I asked if you left the ribs in a whole rack is because cutting them would dry them out even more, possibly.


----------



## SikPilot

cg1200 said:


> I'll try wrapping in foil for the first 60-90, then smoke for another hour and see how they look. I'll also up my temp to 250*. Sound about right?


 
No, sounds completely wrong. Do not wrap the ribs in foil at the beginning of the cook. If you do that you will not get any of the smoke flavor on to the ribs. Cook them with indirect heat for 3 hours at 225-250(225 is better). Then pour some honey on them and some "sugar in the raw" and wrap them in foil. Put them back on the grill/smoker for about 1.5 hours. Then take them out of the foil and LIGHTLY sauce them and put them back on the low heat for about 30 minutes.

If you grab the rack of ribs with tongs about 4  ribs in and the other end bends 45 degrees or more the ribs are done.  Be careful trying that as the rack might break in half and you will be standing there looking down at the floor crying.  Ask me how I know.


----------



## pacanis

SikPilot said:


> No, sounds completely wrong. Do not wrap the ribs in foil at the beginning of the cook. If you do that you will not get any of the smoke flavor on to the ribs. Cook them with indirect heat for 3 hours at 225-250(225 is better). Then pour some honey on them and some "sugar in the raw" and wrap them in foil. Put them back on the grill/smoker for about 1.5 hours. Then take them out of the foil and LIGHTLY sauce them and put them back on the low heat for about 30 minutes.


 
I wish I had thought of that


----------



## RPCookin

cg1200 said:


> I followed almost the same formula here but mine were on the tough side. Not shoe leather but definitely not fall off the bone tender either. Did you wrap your ribs in foil for any length of time? the consensus of the other posters seems to be 4 hours is too long for baby back ribs, yet yours came out great.
> 
> I'll try wrapping in foil for the first 60-90, then smoke for another hour and see how they look. I'll also up my temp to 250*. Sound about right?



I did not wrap them in anything except the dry rub.  The racks I was referring to were meatier than most baby backs that I've seen, so maybe that is why they were good on a longer cooking time.  They were not tough, nor were they dry.  They didn't fall off the bone, but they were none the less tender, juicy and succulent.  Everyone who ate them raved about them.   Definitely the best I've ever made.  

I'll be doing a few racks again in in a couple of weeks, and I plan to use the same method.  The key is just watching what's going on and making sure that the heat stays fairly constant.  Too low and it just dries them out, too hot and they'll burn before they are done.

I used about the same method for a whole chicken the other day.  I cut out the backbone and splayed it out, then rubbed it with olive oil and dry jerk seasoning.  Same cooking method except that I only left the burner on high for about 20 minutes to get the chips smoking good, then turned it down to medium (indirect) (about 340-350) for a total time of about 1:15.  The meat was smoky and spicy and again done perfectly.


----------



## cg1200

SikPilot said:


> No, sounds completely wrong. Do not wrap the ribs in foil at the beginning of the cook. If you do that you will not get any of the smoke flavor on to the ribs. Cook them with indirect heat for 3 hours at 225-250(225 is better). Then pour some honey on them and some "sugar in the raw" and wrap them in foil. Put them back on the grill/smoker for about 1.5 hours. Then take them out of the foil and LIGHTLY sauce them and put them back on the low heat for about 30 minutes.
> 
> If you grab the rack of ribs with tongs about 4 ribs in and the other end bends 45 degrees or more the ribs are done. Be careful trying that as the rack might break in half and you will be standing there looking down at the floor crying. Ask me how I know.


 
Interesting. Some say cook for less time on higher heat while others suggest going even longer but wrapping in foil. Seems like there is quite a few different ways to cook great ribs. Experimenting is required. Shame it takes 4 hours to find out if you've screwed up!

So on my next attempt (this weekend) I will attempt the following:
1) Set temp to 225 (25* higher than I've been using)
2) Smoke for 1.5 hours
3) At 1.5 hour mark, wrap ribs in foil with a marinade/mop etc.
4) Cook for another 1-1.5 hours
5) Remove from foil and sauce for another 30 minutes.
6) Pray

Total cooking time of 3 hours. Given that these ribs are on the smallish side, I think 4 hours is too long and drying them out. Hopefully wrapping in foil for a portion of time will keep them from getting overdone.

Wish me luck. Thanks for all the suggestions. This has really been helpful.


----------



## pacanis

Like you said, there are lots of ways to cook great ribs. You won't go wrong cooking them like you said, or some of the other ways either


----------



## Maverick2272

I think I said this in another thread, there are so many ways to cook ribs that I am sure I will be spending most of my summer trying em all out!
Ol Blue had a good one recently where she cooked em on the grill first with BBQ sauce on a higher heat, then wrapped in foil and cooked low n slow to finish em up.
And I like SikPilots method with honey and sugar in the raw... sounds good!


----------



## hambone1955

I have cooked ribs diffrent ways the best way is slow cooking and indirect heat. I have pre boiled the ribs to soften them up and seasoned them and put them on the pit and slow cooked them and final glazed them at the end .. they came out tender  and mouth watering.  I dry rubbed them and put them in  my smoker I call the "tin Man" It is made of steel stands  5ft 5 three ft wide round. the grill is aprox 3ft from the mesquite/oak coals I cook /smoke the ribs for 4.5-5 hrs.... very good ribs. I even cook them on my Old Smoky BBQ pit( small batch two labs or less) indirect heat with dry rub 3.5 hrs over kingsford or royal oak charcoal. The only time I use foil is when I can't check on them ..... rule of thumb  less heat  better the rib. Want to know my Hot wing tips.....


----------



## quicksilver

*How can I tell if my ribs are done*



cg1200 said:


> Just found this forum and am looking for some help.


 
Poke 'em. If they giggle, they're done. TEE HEE!
Sorry. I couldn't help myself.


----------



## redgriller

Baby Backs don’t need to cook very long at all. Around 2 hours in the smoke at around 235 is all it takes. You can also grill them over low coals for about 45 minutes and get pretty good ribs. Baby Backs are naturally tender, so you don’t need a long cook time to break the collagen and connective tissue down to make the meat fall off the bone tender.
 
The cheaper Spare Ribs (Pork or Beef) on the other hand require about 3.5 to 4 hours at 225 to be done. 
 
Just remember that Baby Backs are more expensive and more tender. They only need about 2 hours cook time at 235.
 
Spare Ribs are cheaper but much tougher and require around 4 hours cook time in order to break down the meat and make it tender.


----------



## pacanis

You make a good point between a true baby back rib and a Louisiana cut rib.


----------



## JohnL

pacanis said:


> You make a good point between a true baby back rib and a Louisiana cut rib.


 
I've never heard of the Louisiana cut pacanis, around here in Balto. I only see full size spare ribs or baby backs. Are the Louisiana cut ribs somewhere in between these two?


----------



## redgriller

I haven’t heard of the Louisiana cut before either, but with spare ribs, you have a few options. 

First, you have the whole slab which includes the sternum bone, flap, and tips.

If you trim off the sternum, flap, and tips so that you have a long rectangular slab of ribs, then it is St. Louis style.

If you trim even more of the St. Louis style away so that it is a small almost square hunk of ribs, then you have Kentucky style. 

Both styles just refer to how you trim your spare ribs.


----------



## JohnL

Thanks for the reply Red,
I usually get the whole rib, (2 in a vacume pack) and just remove any excess fat and the membrane from the back of the ribs. Now you say that, I have seen ribs in the plastic trays at the grocery stores with the sternum and tips trimed off.


----------



## redgriller

Some times I’ll smoke the whole rib too. It’s all good meat. The only catch being that some of the outer edges can dry up before the inner meat on the ribs is ready. Still, it makes for great baked beans and such. 

I’ve seen the St. Louis style wrapped and ready for sell as well. Sometimes they even call them “Back” ribs (not baby back....just Back). I think they do this in order to fool people into thinking they’re getting the more expensive Loin Ribs or true Baby Backs. When you see those kinds of ribs again, notice what they are calling them and also look at the price per pound and compare that per pound price with a whole slab of untrimmed ribs. They often mark it up by a dollar or so per pound since they trimmed them for you. 

Same thing with whole chickens, so I always trim my own ribs and cut up my whole chickens. If anyone is getting paid to do that, it think it should be me.


----------



## pacanis

Yeah, that's probably what I meant... St Louis style ribs. oops.


----------



## cg1200

redgriller said:


> Baby Backs don’t need to cook very long at all. Around 2 hours in the smoke at around 235 is all it takes. You can also grill them over low coals for about 45 minutes and get pretty good ribs. Baby Backs are naturally tender, so you don’t need a long cook time to break the collagen and connective tissue down to make the meat fall off the bone tender.
> 
> The cheaper Spare Ribs (Pork or Beef) on the other hand require about 3.5 to 4 hours at 225 to be done.
> 
> Just remember that Baby Backs are more expensive and more tender. They only need about 2 hours cook time at 235.
> 
> Spare Ribs are cheaper but much tougher and require around 4 hours cook time in order to break down the meat and make it tender.


 
Well I was at it today trying out some of the suggestions from this thread. I set the temp at about 250 and got the smoke going. Put a tin foil pan with water over the lit burner and let ribs cook for an hour. Checked them after the first hour and they looked very good already. Basted with Worcestershire and olive oil and put back on for 30 min. Flipped and basted again for another 30. Put BBQ sauce on for final 20 min. Total time about 2.5 hours. They came out very good. Extremely moist and tender. Not fall off the bone tender but very, very good. I think they could have stood to be cooked a little longer. Maybe a full 3 hours. 

I was definitely cooking them for way too long initially. That much seems obvious now. Still I think they could be even more tender. Perhaps next time I'll try wrapping them in foil for a portion of time so I can cook them a little longer without drying them out.

Making definite progress. Very excited. Thansk to everyone for offering their tips.


----------



## kitchenelf

Good news!!!!  Keep them unwrapped initially so they'll get the smoke flavor.  Wrap in foil for the final hour or so.  You can finish them on the grill to caramelize the bbq sauce.


----------



## redgriller

Be careful how long you cook a rib though. You can cook them so long that the meat literally falls off the bone with a shake of your wrist. That makes it pulled pork with bones and not ribs! 

Sounds like you're getting along though. Great job.


----------



## cg1200

redgriller said:


> Be careful how long you cook a rib though. You can cook them so long that the meat literally falls off the bone with a shake of your wrist. That makes it pulled pork with bones and not ribs!
> 
> Sounds like you're getting along though. Great job.


 
I think the length of time was my problem all along. I was cooking them for 4 hours and they were coming out very dry and tough. On this attempt i think I took them off a tad too soon or didn't have the temp quite high enough. In my case the longer I left them on the more dried out they became. 

Next time I may bump temp up to 265 or so and wrap for the middle hour in foil. Sauce them and finish off for 30 min unwrapped.


----------



## BBQBob

Do you remove the membrane before cooking the baby backs? Failing to do this can cause them to be tough.
I don't use my gas grill for smoking, I'll use my bullet smoker or offset smoker for this purpose. I cook my baby backs in the bullet smoker for 5 to 5.5 hours. I try to keep the temp in the 200 to 225 range. I will use apple or pecan wood for baby backs.
I prep them with my own rub and will place strips of maple bacon on the slabs. I don't wrap them in foil or plastic during the cooking process. The bullet smoker has a water pan to distribute the heat and add moisture to the meat. I do spray them with apple juice as they are cooking, after 2 hours then every hour. I let the ribs rest about 15 minutes before cutting them apart.
Always keep practicing your technique, because the results are very tasty.


----------



## Jeekinz

cg1200 said:


> Just found this forum and am looking for some help. I've been cooking baby back ribs on a weber gas grill for the last few months. I get the temp up to about 200 degrees. I light the left most burner only and cook ribs on right side of grill away from heat (indirect). I use hickory wood chips in the smoker box and let cook for about 4 hours. The meat seems to shrink back from the bone but I've been finding the meat kinda tough. Are they over cooked or undercooked? I thought over-cooked ribs yielded meat that literally fell off the bone. I seem to have the opposite problem. Could they possibly need to cook longer? these are not huge baby back ribs. They don't taste bad it's just after 4 hours I would expect the meat to be very tender. What do you thinK? should i go longer or shorter?


 
Cook at 225-250. Pick the rack up with the tongs like in the pic. When the rack starts to seperate, they're done. Some chew to the meat with a clean bone. My baste is equal parts apple juice and apple cider vinegar with 1/4 part dark brown sugar. I just mix it up in a 2 cup measuring cup and pour some on every 30 minutes. Mops and brushes tend to remove rubs and spices. Spray bottles work great if you have multiple cuts going at once.

I add my sauce once I see them seperate the slightest bit. It seems the time it takes to finish from that point on is good time for the sauce to cook.


----------



## kitchenelf

Jeekinz said:


> My baste is equal parts apple juice and apple cider with 1/4 part dark brown sugar.  I just mix it up in a 2 cup measuring cup and pour some on every 30 minutes.



Jeekinz - did you mean equal parts of apple juice and apple cider *vinegar*?


----------



## Jeekinz

kitchenelf said:


> Jeekinz - did you mean equal parts of apple juice and apple cider *vinegar*?


 
oops....brb.


----------



## skyy38

hambone1955 said:


> Want to know my Hot wing tips.....


 
Sure,give us your hot wing tips-knowledge IS power after all....

I've been doing some thinking about hot wings lately and come to a couple of conclusions.

1. The cooking method is wrong. Or at the very least, too separated.

2. Hot Wing sauce should be more than just hot sauce and butter. 

3. There is one element that is missing in current Hot Wings that will push the next generation of Hot Wings into the future. I absolutely believe that this one element is not in play anywhere in these United States.


----------



## cgaengineer

cg1200 said:


> Just found this forum and am looking for some help. I've been cooking baby back ribs on a weber gas grill for the last few months. I get the temp up to about 200 degrees. I light the left most burner only and cook ribs on right side of grill away from heat (indirect). I use hickory wood chips in the smoker box and let cook for about 4 hours. The meat seems to shrink back from the bone but I've been finding the meat kinda tough. Are they over cooked or undercooked? I thought over-cooked ribs yielded meat that literally fell off the bone. I seem to have the opposite problem. Could they possibly need to cook longer? these are not huge baby back ribs. They don't taste bad it's just after 4 hours I would expect the meat to be very tender. What do you thinK? should i go longer or shorter?


 

I know this is an older thread and I am also new here. I myself use my Weber Genesis to cook ribs using indirect medium. The ribs are done when the meat starts to seperate from the bone...you will see the tips of the bones exposed 1/2" or so. Pick up the Weber Cookbook for Grilling and it will give you alot of hints and also great recipes. 

As another posted said DO remove the membrane from the back of the ribs...nobody like to eat that once cooked.


----------



## cg1200

cgaengineer said:


> I know this is an older thread and I am also new here. I myself use my Weber Genesis to cook ribs using indirect medium. The ribs are done when the meat starts to seperate from the bone...you will see the tips of the bones exposed 1/2" or so. Pick up the Weber Cookbook for Grilling and it will give you alot of hints and also great recipes.
> 
> As another posted said DO remove the membrane from the back of the ribs...nobody like to eat that once cooked.


 
Been a while since I started this thread. Can't believe people are still posting to it! Anyway - I always remove membrane. Sometimes it's a pain in the @ss but I usually get it off completely. 

Check this out. I was preparing to grill some ribs a few weeks ago but the weather turned awful before I started so I decided to try and cook them in my kitchen oven. I know, it's heresy but I've seen Bobby Flay do it and others as well so I figured what the hell? Better than getting soaked all afternoon.

I set the temp to 260 put the ribs on a broiler pan and filled the bottom part with water figuring it would create steam and keep the ribs moist. I let them cook for about an hour and basted with Worcestershire and olive oil. Let them cook another hour and re-basted. At this point they looked great. I was optimistic they might be ok. I flipped them for 20 min and then flipped back and put on BBQ sauce for another 20 min.

They were the best ribs I've ever made. The meat was so tender and moist it practically fell off the bone. The texture was perfect and it even looked like BBQ ribs. I was so stunned. I didn't think it was possible to do this in a regular oven. Total cooking time was about 2 hours and 40 minutes. At the same time I was now puzzled as to why my grill attempts have never even come close to achieving this level of tenderness.

So what I've learned from this is my Weber (Summit 450) thermometer may be off. I cook at the same temp on the grill but they have never been this moist and tender. I'm wondering if its hotter in there than its showing on the gauge. I also think the water pan beneath the ribs helped a lot in keeping the ribs moist. I could tell when I went to baste that the ribs just looked moist and I could see the bones becoming more exposed on the end. I also might be adding too much smoke which might be drying them out too.

Pretty interesting. I'm tempted to just keep cooking them in the oven and then finishing on the grill but that seems like cheating.


----------



## cgaengineer

cg1200 said:


> Been a while since I started this thread. Can't believe people are still posting to it! Anyway - I always remove membrane. Sometimes it's a pain in the @ss but I usually get it off completely.
> 
> Check this out. I was preparing to grill some ribs a few weeks ago but the weather turned awful before I started so I decided to try and cook them in my kitchen oven. I know, it's heresy but I've seen Bobby Flay do it and others as well so I figured what the hell? Better than getting soaked all afternoon.
> 
> I set the temp to 260 put the ribs on a broiler pan and filled the bottom part with water figuring it would create steam and keep the ribs moist. I let them cook for about an hour and basted with Worcestershire and olive oil. Let them cook another hour and re-basted. At this point they looked great. I was optimistic they might be ok. I flipped them for 20 min and then flipped back and put on BBQ sauce for another 20 min.
> 
> They were the best ribs I've ever made. The meat was so tender and moist it practically fell off the bone. The texture was perfect and it even looked like BBQ ribs. I was so stunned. I didn't think it was possible to do this in a regular oven. Total cooking time was about 2 hours and 40 minutes. At the same time I was now puzzled as to why my grill attempts have never even come close to achieving this level of tenderness.
> 
> So what I've learned from this is my Weber (Summit 450) thermometer may be off. I cook at the same temp on the grill but they have never been this moist and tender. I'm wondering if its hotter in there than its showing on the gauge. I also think the water pan beneath the ribs helped a lot in keeping the ribs moist. I could tell when I went to baste that the ribs just looked moist and I could see the bones becoming more exposed on the end. I also might be adding too much smoke which might be drying them out too.
> 
> Pretty interesting. I'm tempted to just keep cooking them in the oven and then finishing on the grill but that seems like cheating.


 
Try one more time on your Weber, if 3 burner you might try turning off the center burner and just using the 2 outers. I have done several racks of baby backs and they all came out great, if fact my parents said they were the best ribs they have ever tasted.

Your oven idea is exactly how a smoker works (water pan). You may try that with your Weber...you can also parboil the ribs prior to finishing them on the grill. You might also get another thermometer and check your Weber temp. 

See Stevens site for an awesome book and several ideas on how to grill.

barbecuebible(dot)com


----------



## cg1200

cgaengineer said:


> Try one more time on your Weber, if 3 burner you might try turning off the center burner and just using the 2 outers. I have done several racks of baby backs and they all came out great, if fact my parents said they were the best ribs they have ever tasted.
> 
> Your oven idea is exactly how a smoker works (water pan). You may try that with your Weber...you can also parboil the ribs prior to finishing them on the grill. You might also get another thermometer and check your Weber temp.
> 
> See Stevens site for an awesome book and several ideas on how to grill.
> 
> barbecuebible(dot)com


 
I will definitely give the grill another shot. I feel good about what I've learned and look forward to my next attempt. I will definitely figure out some way to get a water pan beneath the ribs. This seems vital. I'll also try lowering the temp to maybe 225. I may have to prop the lid open to achieve that temp. The weber tends to run pretty hot. 

I have a 4 burner grill and usually only use the far left burner and place the ribs on the far right. I sometimes have to light the smoker burner to get the wood chips to burn but turn it off as soon as it starts to smoke.


----------



## pacanis

I understand what you are trying to do here, cg, but you are talking two different cooking methods. 
I personally do not see why people try to duplicate one cooking method to another. 
A grilled porch chop comes out differently than a fried one. I love them both, but I do not try to make the two methods meet in the middle. When I am in the mood for either that's what I cook.

I think you need to maybe work on your grilling techniques a little, but realize that if you really love the way your ribs come out in the oven, you will never duplicate that same rib on the grill. And why bother really? It's an entirely different cooking process and the results are also different. You seem to be trying to duplicate the finished product, but the methods are different, so the results will never be exactly the same.

IMO


----------



## Jeekinz

Pacanis, it's all "indirect cooking" just using different forms of heat. Whether it's a grill, smoker, oven or campfire it's low and slow. In reality, you're turning whatever piece of equipment you are using into an oven. You can indirect cook ribs on a grill and use wood chip packets to achieve very simillar results as a smoker.....without using a smoker. I cook whole, un-butterflied chickens on my grill the same way - 2 outside burners on and the one directly under the meat off.

He's on the right track by lowering the cooking temps. I never felt the absolute need for a water tray since I baste every 30 minutes and achieve very tender ribs. Either way is fine. You really need to *know* your grill though.

Situations like this usually drive people to invent.  I'm curious how the results come out.


----------



## cgaengineer

Jeekinz said:


> Pacanis, it's all "indirect cooking" just using different forms of heat. Whether it's a grill, smoker, oven or campfire it's low and slow. In reality, you're turning whatever piece of equipment you are using into an oven. You can indirect cook ribs on a grill and use wood chip packets to achieve very simillar results as a smoker.....without using a smoker. I cook whole, un-butterflied chickens on my grill the same way - 2 outside burners on and the one directly under the meat off.
> 
> He's on the right track by lowering the cooking temps. I never felt the absolute need for a water tray since I baste every 30 minutes and achieve very tender ribs. Either way is fine. You really need to *know* your grill though.
> 
> Situations like this usually drive people to invent. I'm curious how the results come out.


 
I was thinking the same thing...I have cooked ribs, whole chickens, pork loins and cobblers on my grill...it works just like an oven.


----------



## Jeekinz

cgaengineer said:


> I was thinking the same thing...I have cooked ribs, whole chickens, pork loins and cobblers on my grill...it works just like an oven.


 
How about a potato gratin in a dutch oven....on the grill? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





The oven had a turkey in it.  lol


----------



## pacanis

I always considered grills to be "drier" than ovens and with a lot more airflow. Unless you have an electric oven. You typically cooking on a grate instead of a cooking vessel, you're close to the heat source.... It's just a different animal. Ovens, IMO, are much more forgiving.

And shouldn't we really be working towards turning our ovens into grills, instead of the other way around?


----------



## Jeekinz

There's grates in the oven too.  lol


----------



## cg1200

pacanis said:


> I understand what you are trying to do here, cg, but you are talking two different cooking methods.
> I personally do not see why people try to duplicate one cooking method to another.
> A grilled porch chop comes out differently than a fried one. I love them both, but I do not try to make the two methods meet in the middle. When I am in the mood for either that's what I cook.
> 
> I think you need to maybe work on your grilling techniques a little, but realize that if you really love the way your ribs come out in the oven, you will never duplicate that same rib on the grill. And why bother really? It's an entirely different cooking process and the results are also different. You seem to be trying to duplicate the finished product, but the methods are different, so the results will never be exactly the same.
> 
> IMO


 
You make a good point but I don't entirely agree. I obviously can't add smoke to the ribs when I cook them in the oven and during the summer months I'd prefer to cook outside and not have my oven on for 3 hours heating up my house. 

I cook steaks in the oven and on the grill and there is no comparison. The grilled steaks are 10x better. Same for chicken, fish just about everything. This is the first time I've ever cooked anything in the oven that I preferred to the grilled equivalent.

In the end I would like to enjoy moist, tender ribs on either the grill or from the oven. I think I've figured out the oven method but my grill technique needs work (as you say). The smoke seems like it might be drying them out somewhat. I baste too every 30 minutes. 

Adding a water pan is tricky because there isn't much clearance between the flavor bars and the cooking grates. Still I think it is worth a try. Others have said they wrap their ribs in foil part way through the cooking time. I suppose I could try this too but it would prevent the smoke.

Trial and error, practice makes perfect.


----------



## paddfoot

hi, my first post here but ive had some great succss with ribs, first, your tem is too low keep it at 220, next, rub you ribs overnight and let them come to room temp befor cooking, next, smoke at 220 for 2.5 to 3 hrs spritzing with apple juice and rum (if desired) a few times, next, pull from the grill and wrap in hd foil with a last spritz and return to the heat for 2 hrs, next, remove from foil and return to grill to firm up and add sause if desired, trust me, i came from the smokin meat forum


----------



## jminion

I'm a competition cook and have a catering company here is how I would handle ribs.

The cook is broken into 3 parts, first I smoke the ribs for aprox 3 hours. What I look for is color and pull back on the bone. When I get about 1/2" of pull back and good color I will put the ribs in foil along with honey, some raw sugar, a little hot sauce or cayenne pepper and fruit juice (your call apple, pineapple what ever you like). Then the they go into the cooker, the time in foil will give the tenderness you want. The longer in foil the more you will have falling off the bone. Because of the pit temps I use 260 to 275 for ribs I cook in foil for only about 45 min to 1 hour ( I like them tender, bite clean off the bone but not falling off). Then you remove from foil glaze go back on grill just long enough to set the glaze.

Moisture in the cooker does equate to moist ribs, cooking long enough to break down connective tissue without over cooking is the key. To tell if they done you can take a toothpick and slide it into the meat between bones, if it feels like it is going into room temp butter they are done.

Spares take 1 1/2 to 2 hours longer than babybacks.
Jim


----------



## cg1200

paddfoot said:


> hi, my first post here but ive had some great succss with ribs, first, your tem is too low keep it at 220, next, rub you ribs overnight and let them come to room temp befor cooking, next, smoke at 220 for 2.5 to 3 hrs spritzing with apple juice and rum (if desired) a few times, next, pull from the grill and wrap in hd foil with a last spritz and return to the heat for 2 hrs, next, remove from foil and return to grill to firm up and add sause if desired, trust me, i came from the smokin meat forum


 
The ribs I'm using are baby backs and on the smallish side. If I cook them for longer than 3 hours they will be dried out and tough (I've tried). Since I'm using a grill not a smoker I think I need to add moisture (in addition to basting/spritzing) and maybe knock the temp down to 225 instead of 250. Wrapping in foil may be an option for the second hour so I can at least get the first hour with smoke. 

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. I wish it was May and not October.  Tough to grill in CT in the fall/winter.


----------



## Jeekinz

Dry ribs means the temp is too high.  Over cooked at 225 means mushy meat, not dry.


----------



## pacanis

Jeekinz said:


> There's grates in the oven too. lol


 
That's an interesting point.
I suppose you could lay the ribs directly on the oven grates


----------



## pacanis

cg1200 said:


> You make a good point but I don't entirely agree. I obviously can't add smoke to the ribs when I cook them in the oven and during the summer months I'd prefer to cook outside and not have my oven on for 3 hours heating up my house.
> 
> Have you tried adding a pie tin of water and liquid smoke? Cheating, but it works
> 
> I cook steaks in the oven and on the grill and there is no comparison. The grilled steaks are 10x better. Same for chicken, fish just about everything. This is the first time I've ever cooked anything in the oven that I preferred to the grilled equivalent.
> 
> I think there is no comparison, too, but there are many here who favor a pan seared/stick in the oven steak. I'd just as soon throw mine on teh grill like you.
> 
> In the end I would like to enjoy moist, tender ribs on either the grill or from the oven. I think I've figured out the oven method but my grill technique needs work (as you say). The smoke seems like it might be drying them out somewhat. I baste too every 30 minutes.
> 
> Follow jminion's advice. I've done them this way and they are definitely moist, but they are still different than oven cooked.
> 
> Adding a water pan is tricky because there isn't much clearance between the flavor bars and the cooking grates. Still I think it is worth a try. Others have said they wrap their ribs in foil part way through the cooking time. I suppose I could try this too but it would prevent the smoke.
> 
> Again, refer to jminion's post. They pick up the smoke in the beginning, before you wrap them. And from what I've read on the "smoke" forums, after the meat reaches 140 it's about as smoked as it's going to get.
> 
> Trial and error, practice makes perfect.


 
I'm with ya there! I'm trying to figure out a Weber smoker, or "pit" as they're called 

oops, looks like I need to figure out that muliple quote thing.
I'm in red (obviously)


----------



## jminion

pacanis
Here is an explaination of a fireup method for a Weber Smokey Mountain cooker 
Firing Up Your Weber Bullet - The Virtual Weber Bullet

With the new formual Kingsford (if that is what you are using) start out with fewer lit coals than is used in fireup explained in the link above.

Jim


----------



## pacanis

Thanks Jim. 
I was going to use that method (been all over that site), but someone on another forum tweaked it a bit and I followed how he fires up his WSM. I think it was a charcoal problem, Wicked Good lump brand. I just looked in and there's a bunch that I added later not ignited and it looks like the other stuff just stopped burning.... How does _that_ happen with vents open.... lousy stuff.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread (lol)


----------



## jminion

Wicked good is good charcoal, it may have been that there was very little fire left and it did not lite the charcoal you added.


----------



## pacanis

It is? Maybe I need to practice with charcoal first, something a lot more uniform. It certainly lit quickly, I'll give it that.


----------



## Jeekinz

pacanis said:


> It is? Maybe I need to practice with charcoal first, something a lot more uniform. It certainly lit quickly, I'll give it that.


 
Briquettes should be started seperately in a chimney before adding them to the cooker.  You can throw lump directly on the fire inside the cooker but it needs to still be somewhat hot.  Otherwise it won't catch.


----------



## jminion

Jeekinz said:


> Dry ribs means the temp is too high. Over cooked at 225 means mushy meat, not dry.


 
That's interesting, so overcooking at a lower temp is different than over cooked at a higher temp. 

I cook ribs at 260 to 275 and if they get over cooked it just happens sooner than if I cooked at 225 but they would still be over cooked.


----------



## pacanis

Jeekinz said:


> Briquettes should be started seperately in a chimney before adding them to the cooker. You can throw lump directly on the fire inside the cooker but it needs to still be somewhat hot. Otherwise it won't catch.


 
There's this method called the minion method where you have unlit charcoal in the ring. The lit chimney full you dump in and spread around is supposed to ignite the unlit, thereby giving you a longer burn time without having to add anything. From what I've "read", it works with either lump or briquettes. And it seemed to work for me, it just did not give me the length ot burn time I was expecting.
Granted, this is all just "book learning" at this stage of the game


----------



## Jeekinz

jminion said:


> That's interesting, so overcooking at a lower temp is different than over cooked at a higher temp.
> 
> I cook ribs at 260 to 275 and if they get over cooked it just happens sooner than if I cooked at 225 but they would still be over cooked.


 
Over cooking at a higher cooking temperature yields dry meat.  Over cooking at a lower cooking temperature yields mushy meat since it has broken down too much.


----------



## jminion

pacanis
You did not start out with enough charcoal in the firering to last for the whole cook. If you need to add coals and there is very little hot coals left in the cooker then lite them off before adding will ensure your fire will continue to burn. Also if you have a build up of ash lightly tap one of the legs of the cooker and get the ash to fall threw the fire grate allowing air to get to coals allowing them to burn.


----------



## jminion

Jeekinz said:


> Over cooking at a higher cooking temperature yields dry meat. Over cooking at a lower cooking temperature yields mushy meat since it has broken down too much.


 
Food science tell us that once meat reaches an internal of 200 degrees it starts lossing moisture and as the internal goes up it losses it faster.

Brisket as an example has much more moisture at 190 to 195 internal than a brisket that has been allowed to reach 200 plus with a mushy or pot roast texture. When you take into account the internal bump you get once the brisket comes off the cooker if you allow the brisket get to a mushy texture, no matter the pit temp, you will get an additional 10 degrees in internal temp before it starts to fall, causing even more moisture loss. 

There are techniques out there for brisket and butt that use pit temps in the 350 to 375 range and they work well but your margin for error is quite small. It does produce very moist product.


----------



## pacanis

jminion said:


> pacanis
> You did not start out with enough charcoal in the firering to last for the whole cook. If you need to add coals and there is very little hot coals left in the cooker then lite them off before adding will ensure your fire will continue to burn. Also if you have a build up of ash lightly tap one of the legs of the cooker and get the ash to fall threw the fire grate allowing air to get to coals allowing them to burn.


 
From the virtual Weber site: Firing Up Your Weber Bullet - The Virtual Weber Bullet

"[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]The concept behind "The Minion Method" is simple:[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Place a small number of hot coals on top of a full charcoal chamber of unlit briquettes.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Using the bottom vents, carefully control the amount of air entering the cooker to keep the fire burning low and steady.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]The unlit fuel catches fire gradually throughout the cooking session, resulting in long burn times of up to 18 hours, depending on weather conditions.[/FONT] "​

This is what I did on a windless, 55F, sunny day with my smoker on the corner of my porch and basically starting at 250 and trying to dial it down to the magic "225" I kept reading about. This is why I thought I would get a much longer burn than the 4-6 hours when things started dying out. This is why I said that the lump charcoal I used must not have been any good. I can't imagine the conditions one must have to get 18 hours before more fuel is needed. Desert Q? 
And this is why it's confusing to learn this craft from the internet, but like I said, I'm certainly not giving up. The meat came out, it's my methods that need worked on. I'm hoping with a fuel change I can get a little closer to that long burn time, but I also know now not to rely on that. I need to learn when to recognize that I'm losing my heat before it gets so low, but I also don't know how much time is required inbetween vent adjustments for things to settle in. Someone later told me 5-10 minutes, but I wa giving it much longer.

Live and learn.​


----------



## jminion

pacanis said:


> From the virtual Weber site: Firing Up Your Weber Bullet - The Virtual Weber Bullet
> 
> 
> 
> "[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]The concept behind "The Minion Method" is simple:[/FONT]
> 
> [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Place a small number of hot coals on top of a full charcoal chamber of unlit briquettes.[/FONT]​
> [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Using the bottom vents, carefully control the amount of air entering the cooker to keep the fire burning low and steady.[/FONT]​
> [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]The unlit fuel catches fire gradually throughout the cooking session, resulting in long burn times of up to 18 hours, depending on weather conditions.[/FONT] "​
> This is what I did on a windless, 55F, sunny day with my smoker on the corner of my porch and basically starting at 250 and trying to dial it down to the magic "225" I kept reading about. This is why I thought I would get a much longer burn than the 4-6 hours when things started dying out. This is why I said that the lump charcoal I used must not have been any good. I can't imagine the conditions one must have to get 18 hours before more fuel is needed. Desert Q?
> 
> And this is why it's confusing to learn this craft from the internet, but like I said, I'm certainly not giving up. The meat came out, it's my methods that need worked on. I'm hoping with a fuel change I can get a little closer to that long burn time, but I also know now not to rely on that. I need to learn when to recognize that I'm losing my heat before it gets so low, but I also don't know how much time is required inbetween vent adjustments for things to settle in. Someone later told me 5-10 minutes, but I wa giving it much longer.​
> 
> Live and learn.​


 
Pacanis
I'm am Minion in the "Minion method", when it says fill the fire ring I would fill it up mounded. Lump charcoal does not get as long burn times as briquettes and the method was born back in 99 using old formula Kingsford which gave us longer burn times than the new formula does.

Once you make a vent change give it 10 to 15 mins and see what you have. 

I have always read the pit temp at the top vent so when it reads 250 that would mean I was about 225 at the top grate. I don't find anything magic about maintaining 225 in the cooker. No matter what you cook on there is a range of temps the cookers goes through as outside conditions change, a piece of wood lites off, ash builds up, what ever the reason, this is not unlike cooking on your oven in the house. As the thermostat reads a low temp it kicks on heat and the temp reach a certain point it turns off heat and starts cooling. Those same things happen in a cooker. As the burn on a WSM goes more charcoals is lit off and the water in the waterpan is turned to steam and disipates normally the pits will climb, as long as that temp doesn't get the point it is burning the sugars in the rub I don't worry about it. 260 at the lid is 235 to 240 on the top grate and that is not too high for the meats we cook.

One last thing to think about when I'm cooking brisket, I take it straight from the frig to the cooker and it goes as soon as I lite the fire off and have placed the waterpan in the cooker. This does two things 1. gives you a better smokering and 2. makes the temp in the pit climb slower allowing you more time to adjust the bottom vents.

hope this helps.

Jim


----------



## pacanis

Thanks Jim. That helps a lot.
I had the fire ring full, but not heaping full. And I relaize that extra chimneyful or so of charcoal could have made a big difference.
But on the plus side, I did put the brisket on cold and had cool water in the pan 
1999 instructions......  Sheesh


----------



## jminion

As we get older we do hate change! LOL


----------

