# Ground Beef Stinks



## DampCharcoal (Feb 19, 2012)

I don't hardly use ground meat anymore because the bits of gristle are just gross and off-putting. 

I used to tolerate it but I can't anymore. 

I use chicken in just about everything nowadays because I know there won't be any unpleasant surprises but I would like to enjoy a slice of meatloaf every once in a while.

Any ideas?


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## PrincessFiona60 (Feb 19, 2012)

Grind your own beef, removing the gristly bits before grinding.


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## DampCharcoal (Feb 19, 2012)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> Grind your own beef, removing the gristly bits before grinding.


 
Yes, I suppose that would be the obvious solution.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Feb 19, 2012)

When all else fails...


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## Caslon (Feb 19, 2012)

I once read you can't win suing a restaurant for a piece of meat gristle that causes major damage as it's an inherent part of the product and not foreign material. Sometimes a restaurant will settle to avoid the publicity of a trial, one they will win.

I knew you knew that.

I really don't see what you're talking about with regards to gristle in hamburger. I don't crunch on gristle much.


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## DampCharcoal (Feb 19, 2012)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> When all else fails...


 
Except that I don't own a grinder.

Sooooo, what should I ask for when I visit the meat counter at my local Kroger?

And do they like smart ass customers?


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## DampCharcoal (Feb 20, 2012)

Caslon said:


> I once read you can't win suing a restaurant for a piece of meat gristle that causes major damage as it's an inherent part of the product and not foreign material. Sometimes a restaurant will settle to avoid the publicity of a trial, one they will win.
> 
> I knew you knew that.
> 
> I really don't see what you're talking about with regards to gristle in hamburger. I don't crunch on gristle much.


 
I'm being pathetically sarcastic as usual but I really do despise chewing into a piece of gristle because that's just friggin' gross.

I mean, that's REALLY gross!

I was just wondering if there was a gross-free grind that didn't involve gristle and what not.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Feb 20, 2012)

DampCharcoal said:


> Except that I don't own a grinder.
> 
> Sooooo, what should I ask for when I visit the meat counter at my local Kroger?
> 
> And do they like smart ass customers?



Food processor???

I've only found unruly lumps of gristle in those 5 pound chubs.  I think if the Kroger  has a meat counter you should buy your beef there.

I appreciate smart ass customers...I don't know if your local guys do, though.  Might try a Knock, Knock joke first.


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## TATTRAT (Feb 20, 2012)

DampCharcoal said:


> Except that I don't own a grinder.
> 
> Sooooo, what should I ask for when I visit the meat counter at my local Kroger?
> 
> And do they like smart ass customers?



Any butcher, at your request, should be happy and willing to grind whatever meat you provide them with. Go to their case, get a piece of chuck, ask them to grind it, done and done.


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## DampCharcoal (Feb 20, 2012)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> Food processor???
> 
> I've only found unruly lumps of gristle in those 5 pound chubs. I think if the Kroger has a meat counter you should buy your beef there.
> 
> I appreciate smart ass customers...I don't know if your local guys do, though. Might try a Knock, Knock joke first.


 
Duly noted. 

Never piss off the person who is preparing your food.

I don't think that's in the Bible but it should be.


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## Caslon (Feb 20, 2012)

Is the original poster suggesting that more gristle is being ground up in hamburger these days, due to the economy or whatever?


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## bakechef (Feb 20, 2012)

The only time that I have found gristle is in those chubs and maybe in the packs that say "ground beef" instead of "ground chuck" or "ground sirloin".  The chuck and sirloin always seem OK.

I think that the reason is, the meat department gets in these huge packages of meat bits that are premeasured for fat content and contain only chuck, sirloin etc..  Those are ground and labeled as such, but the "ground beef" can contain whatever scraps that they have after cutting meat, those scraps don't end up in the sirloin or chuck packages.  

I work in a grocery store and this is how it is done where I work.


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## DMerry (Feb 20, 2012)

Or, if you only want your meat loaf occasionally you could go to a meat market if there's one in your area.  I started going to mine when they actually sold a pot roast with the bone still in it -- imagine that -- but they had really good lean ground beef that I used for years and years and never found anything like gristle in it.  They would also be happy to grind your meat for you.  Oh, the price was only a little bit more than meat in the supermarket.  The quality of the meat was much better.


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## vitauta (Feb 20, 2012)

talking about ground beef, and grinding your own, here's a question that's been on my mind for a while:  if i ground my own hamburger meat, would i be able to enjoy hamburgers cooked medium rare, again?  i miss terribly being able to eat my hamburgers rare, medium-rare.  would the safety concerns about raw ground beef be addressed by fresh-grinding a hunk of chuck beef right before making my burgers?  do any of you still eat hamburgers that aren't well-done?


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## Hammster (Feb 20, 2012)

vitauta said:


> talking about ground beef, and grinding your own, here's a question that's been on my mind for a while: if i ground my own hamburger meat, would i be able to enjoy hamburgers cooked medium rare, again? i miss terribly being able to eat my hamburgers rare, medium-rare. would the safety concerns about raw ground beef be addressed by fresh-grinding a hunk of chuck beef right before making my burgers? do any of you still eat hamburgers that aren't well-done?


 
This is *exactly* why I grind my own beef. So I can have my burger as rare as I want it.


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## FrankZ (Feb 20, 2012)

vitauta said:


> talking about ground beef, and grinding your own, here's a question that's been on my mind for a while:  if i ground my own hamburger meat, would i be able to enjoy hamburgers cooked medium rare, again?  i miss terribly being able to eat my hamburgers rare, medium-rare.  would the safety concerns about raw ground beef be addressed by fresh-grinding a hunk of chuck beef right before making my burgers?  do any of you still eat hamburgers that aren't well-done?



Yes.  

I Have found that since I have been grinding my own my burgers cook faster, so you may have a small learning curve there.  

I use chuck, I cut out as much of the fat as I can without being compulsive.  I have always liked leaner burgers best, especially since I don't want them cooked extra-well.  

The price of chuck per pound is about the same as the price of the 80/20 ground stuff.  By the time you get to the 93/7 here the price of chuck is extremely attractive.  

So grinding your own allows control, and, for me, cost savings.

Oh and it is just plain good old fun...


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## vitauta (Feb 20, 2012)

so encouraging, hammster and frankz.  i wonder why it has taken so long for me to figure this out.  all those years of "rarely" eating burgers cause i only really love them when cooked rare....


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## Andy M. (Feb 20, 2012)

vitauta said:


> ... if i ground my own hamburger meat, would i be able to enjoy hamburgers cooked medium rare, again?...



I say, "Not necessarily!".

The issue of contamination with ground beef is that it can be mixed throughout the meat, not just on the surface.  

With a whole piece of beef such as a steak, any contamination on the surface is quickly killed off by the high surface temps a steak is subjected to.  It's safe to cook the interior to rear or MR.

So, whether you grind beef at home or buy it ground, you could be dealing with the same contamination.  (After all, where do you buy the beef to be ground?).  If you have a piece of steak (chuck or other) that is surface contaminated, and you grind it at home, you are running the same risks.

It's not an issue of your kitchen's being cleaner than the market's.  It has to do with the meat that is the source of the ground beef.


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## SherryDAmore (Feb 20, 2012)

TATTRAT said:


> Any butcher, at your request, should be happy and willing to grind whatever meat you provide them with. Go to their case, get a piece of chuck, ask them to grind it, done and done.


 
Before I got my KA, I did this, but added boneless shortribs.  And I waited and watched while they ground it.  I have a nice relationship with my Wegman's butchers.


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## HistoricFoodie (Feb 20, 2012)

_I cut out as much of the fat as I can without being compulsive._

Might explain why they cook faster, Frank. 

As it sits, chuck is the perfect burger meat. Depending on specific cut, it has a 15/85 or 20/80 fat to lean content. When you trim out much of the fat, you have to cook the burgers for less time to keep them from drying out and overcooking.


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## taxlady (Feb 20, 2012)

I agree with Andy, that you are mixing that surface contamination into the inside of the burger, which won't get the same level of heat as the outside.

On the other hand, if you grind the meat immediately prior to cooking the burger, there will be far fewer micro-organisms than in the store bought ground beef. Once it is ground, it has far more "surface" area on which to grow.

I just hate that we have to treat our food as though it were medical waste.


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## FrankZ (Feb 20, 2012)

HistoricFoodie said:


> _I cut out as much of the fat as I can without being compulsive._
> 
> Might explain why they cook faster, Frank.
> 
> As it sits, chuck is the perfect burger meat. Depending on specific cut, it has a 15/85 or 20/80 fat to lean content. When you trim out much of the fat, you have to cook the burgers for less time to keep them from drying out and overcooking.



Comparing like for like they still cook faster.  When I buy the 93/7 versus grinding my own.


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## Kathleen (Feb 20, 2012)

DampCharcoal said:


> Except that I don't own a grinder.
> 
> Sooooo, what should I ask for when I visit the meat counter at my local Kroger?
> 
> And do they like smart ass customers?



Select a nice chuck roast (which sometimes is cheaper than ground chuck) and ask the butcher to grind it for you to your liking.  (I use to ask that he remove some of the fat and any boingies and give it a grind for burgers.)


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## DampCharcoal (Feb 20, 2012)

Kathleen said:


> Select a nice chuck roast (which sometimes is cheaper than ground chuck) and ask the butcher to grind it for you to your liking. (I use to ask that he remove some of the fat and any boingies and give it a grind for burgers.)


 
I'll try that. Honestly, I've never actually asked anyone in the meat department to trim or grind a cut of meat. 

I usually give the selection a good once-over and if I see something I like, I'll buy it but if not, I just keep moving on.


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## Dawgluver (Feb 20, 2012)

Kathleen said:
			
		

> Select a nice chuck roast (which sometimes is cheaper than ground chuck) and ask the butcher to grind it for you to your liking.  (I use to ask that he remove some of the fat and any boingies and give it a grind for burgers.)



I'll have to do that.  I buy whole loins on sale and cut my own chops and steaks, though the meat guy offers to do that for me.  I like to cut my own, as they weigh and price the meat pre-cut, and charge me for the scraps they cut off and keep.  Having them grind a chuck roast sounds like a great idea!


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## PrincessFiona60 (Feb 20, 2012)

Dawgluver said:


> I'll have to do that.  I buy whole loins on sale and cut my own chops and steaks, though the meat guy offers to do that for me.  I like to cut my own, as they weigh and price the meat pre-cut, and charge me for the scraps they cut off and keep.  Having them grind a chuck roast sounds like a great idea!



They should be giving you the scraps, Dawg!  That is good for making pork chili, but since you are paying for it, it belongs to you!  I would insist.


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## Dawgluver (Feb 20, 2012)

PrincessFiona60 said:
			
		

> They should be giving you the scraps, Dawg!  That is good for making pork chili, but since you are paying for it, it belongs to you!  I would insist.



I think so too! I don't bother asking anymore.  When they ask me how I want it cut up, I tell them just wrap it up and I'll take it home whole.  I really enjoy cutting up and packaging a whole pork or beef loin.


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## Robo410 (Feb 20, 2012)

so many questions need to be asked:
what quality meat am I buying? where am I buying it? what is their source?, how is that meat raised, slaughtered etc.

If you live near a local "green" meat raiser or a good butcher (kosher, halal, or just real old fashioned meat guy) you can get safe product and cook it as you like. 

If you are buying from the supermarket meat counter (a few still exist) there is one quality and from the bulk bin another. What goes into the pre made frozen items is anyone's guess.

I buy the fancier for my burgers cooked med rare and the cheaper for sauces and chili etc. 

Search out your options.


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## taxlady (Feb 20, 2012)

I usually buy ground beef at Costco. I actually get the stuff that is already shaped into patties. It's easier for me to wrap each of those patties and freeze them that way. I have never had any issues with their ground beef. It is always fresh and free from yucky bits. My only complaint is that it is leaner than I would like. I have to add fat if I want to make sausage that isn't dry.


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## Barbara L (Feb 20, 2012)

I hadn't even given this any thought, but now that the subject has been brought up, I realize that the ground beef I have been buying (even the chubs) doesn't have that problem. Interesting.  The only time I seem to bite into any gristle in ground beef is when I get a fast food burger, taco, or burrito, or in a frozen meal that has ground beef in it. 

P.S. I'm not saying it has never happened, but it is rare.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 20, 2012)

I have found difficulty getting my supermarket meat department (Ralphs AKA Krogers) to do anything custom for me because "We have to clean our equipment every time we change from beef to chicken to pork etc. and it's too much trouble for just one order." FDA regulations and all that. Yeah, I was not a happy customer.

The next time I just cut my meat up into large chunks and ran it through my food processor. Maybe I'll get a meat grinder one day.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Feb 20, 2012)

I like my hand crank grinder better than the one on my KA.  I feel like I have more control and I don't have to jump around like a rabid hyena to keep it going.


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## Dawgluver (Feb 20, 2012)

PrincessFiona60 said:
			
		

> I like my hand crank grinder better than the one on my KA.  I feel like I have more control and I don't have to jump around like a rabid hyena to keep it going.



I remember watching my mom's hand crank grinder as a little kid.  It's been gone for many years, but it was fascinating to watch her put all the stuff through it.


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## Barbara L (Feb 21, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> I have found difficulty getting my supermarket meat department (Ralphs AKA Krogers) to do anything custom for me because "We have to clean our equipment every time we change from beef to chicken to pork etc. and it's too much trouble for just one order." FDA regulations and all that. Yeah, I was not a happy customer.
> 
> The next time I just cut my meat up into large chunks and ran it through my food processor. Maybe I'll get a meat grinder one day.


I wonder if it is just the people in the meat department who say it is too much trouble for one order, or if that is store policy. I would talk to the store manager about it. Are there any other stores in the area?


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## bakechef (Feb 21, 2012)

In my store they will custom grind beef, but that's it.  Company policy as well as the health department, won't allow any other meats put through the machine without a complete tear down and sanitize, which is a big job, because the machine is huge! 

Most stores run short handed to cut labor as much as possible, and doing multiple tear downs in a day would be stressful for the worker and put them behind on their regular duties.

All other meats come pre-ground.


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## taxlady (Feb 21, 2012)

A friend of mine gets her meat ground, by going in on the right day. She found out what day of the week they grind chicken, what day beef, etc. Then she buys her beef or chicken or whatever on the right day and they are happy to it some for her.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 21, 2012)

bakechef said:


> In my store they will custom grind beef, but that's it.  Company policy as well as the health department, won't allow any other meats put through the machine without a complete tear down and sanitize, which is a big job, because the machine is huge!



That was the explanation. Each time they do any meat, poultry, anything, they set up for a run and do all their packages, then they tear down and clean up the machines to be ready for the next run. If they did one package for me they'd have to do a complete tear down for me too, unless coincidentally they had been intending to do a full run of exactly what I asked for.

This is the big city. You don't get personal service in supermarkets. You have to go to a butcher if you expect to have anything done expressly just for you.


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## FrankZ (Feb 21, 2012)

Greg,

One day I went to the deli department at my local grocery store to get cheese.  I wanted a pound block of cheddar and a pound block of something else.  The girl behind the counter could not figure out how to take 4-5 pounds blocks and get 1 pound out of it as the deli slicer wouldn't go that thick.  I had to clue her into the new technology of a knife.  

She cut a block and tossed it onto the scale.  It was too small.  She wanted to just add another chunk, I told her I wanted a pound block, not two small blocks.  Over and over she whacked at  the block, and every time she wasn't close.

She was throwing the cheese across the deli and muttering under her breath.  Finally she got the two blocks cut (well, hacked) to the right size.  As I was walking away she was picking cheese off the floor and telling someone else about how "that man just wasted all this cheese".  Of course I didn't throw it, I didn't cut (hack) it too small.

I went to the front and talked to the store manager (the actual head guy, not someone who is a "manager").  He was nice, he was polite, he was apologetic, he told me they should  be able to handle a request like this without worry (and they had in the past with a pound block of ham).

He then offered to buy my cheese for me.  That was above what I expected, but I was kind enough to allow him to do this as it seemed to mean a lot to him.  

In the end I cut the pound block into pieces (of the size and shape I wanted, mostly, it was tough with the hacked up shape) and cold smoked it.

You may wish to speak to someone with more authority and see what can be done.  Sometimes the fella that has to do the work doesn't want to, and he will cite "rules" that really don't exist.*





*that was pretty long winded to get to that last bit.


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## buckytom (Feb 21, 2012)

i asked for a hand cranked meat grinder with sausage attachment for christmas but i must have been on the naughty list. it was a really heavy duty cast metal one for only about $30, so i guess i'll be treating myself to a gift the next time i go to the hunting/fishing store where i saw it.

as far as grinding my own beef for burgers, i think i'm going to do a shabu shabu thing (dipping in boiling water) before grinding to help make it safer for my family to eat rare. i'm not sure if it will work, but it's worth a shot.


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## buckytom (Feb 21, 2012)

oh yeah, besides gristle, i've seen pieces of veins in fast food burgers. yuk.


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## FrankZ (Feb 21, 2012)

buckytom said:


> oh yeah, besides gristle, i've seen pieces of veins in fast food burgers. yuk.



That's just the prize when you order the fun meal.. sheesh...


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## Cerise (Feb 21, 2012)

Have you considered changing butchers, markets, going for a leaner cut, or trying Bison?  I buy lean. It's a little more expensive, but haven't encountered gristle since I ate at a fast food place.  Alternately, you can go with ground veal, chicken or turkey.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 21, 2012)

Frank, I'm not sure it's even worth the trouble to seek higher authority in a store. Honestly I don't use hamburger all that much. Sometimes I buy "buffalo" burger, sometimes I just buy what's in the meat case, sometimes I trim my own steak and give it a quick run through my food processor. If I were using hamburger all the time I might go to some effort but more often than not I cook things that don't have any relevance to hamburger. In fact off hand hamburgers are the only thing I can think of where I use ground beef.

I had the same problem with whole chickens. They didn't have any halves and I wanted them to saw a whole one in half for me. "We don't want to clean the saw for just one chicken." I ended up getting a cleaver and between that and my shears I prefer my cutting my own whole chickens now anyway, I always buy them whole whole and either cut them in half or do that thing where you make them lay flat like road kill.


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## taxlady (Feb 21, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> Frank, I'm not sure it's even worth the trouble to seek higher authority in a store. Honestly I don't use hamburger all that much. Sometimes I buy "buffalo" burger, sometimes I just buy what's in the meat case, sometimes I trim my own steak and give it a quick run through my food processor. If I were using hamburger all the time I might go to some effort but more often than not I cook things that don't have any relevance to hamburger. In fact off hand hamburgers are the only thing I can think of where I use ground beef.



No meatloaf or meat balls?


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 21, 2012)

taxlady said:


> No meatloaf or meat balls?


Not very often. I'm single. I usually end up cooking things that can be conveniently cooked for one person. That's why I've been on an Asian kick lately: tastes really good, easy to cook one portion. And I eat a lot of chicken and shrimp anyway. I eat beef probably less than once a week, and when I eat beef it's mostly steak. If my situation changes and I end up cooking for more people on a regular basis then my diet will probably change too, and maybe I'll make meatloaf and meatballs more often.


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## Andy M. (Feb 21, 2012)

When I was single, I often made larger meals and froze meal-sized portions for later use.  Chili, tomato sauce with meatballs and sausages, soups, meatloaf, etc.  I didn't really get into Asian cooking until later.


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## Kathleen (Feb 23, 2012)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> I like my hand crank grinder better than the one on my KA.  I feel like I have more control and I don't have to jump around like a rabid hyena to keep it going.



What kind do you have?  I found one in a second-hand shop, but Frank felt that it did not work well at all.  



buckytom said:


> oh yeah, besides gristle, i've seen pieces of veins in fast food burgers. yuk.



ACK!


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## DaveSoMD (Feb 23, 2012)

Kathleen said:


> What kind do you have?  I found one in a second-hand shop, but Frank felt that it did not work well at all.
> 
> ACK!



But I hear that yogurt maker is working well.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Feb 23, 2012)

Kathleen said:


> What kind do you have?  I found one in a second-hand shop, but Frank felt that it did not work well at all.
> ACK!



I got it at an outdoor sports wholesaler.  Not sure what it is and it's buried right now.  I works great! and easy to clean.  Start with large grind and go to small.

It is cast iron and I keep it wrapped in a cotton towel!


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## Claire (Feb 24, 2012)

DampCharcoal said:


> Except that I don't own a grinder.
> 
> Sooooo, what should I ask for when I visit the meat counter at my local Kroger?
> 
> And do they like smart ass customers?



Can't help but answer that one.  No one likes a smart ass.  As I've often told a certain nephew, there's a huge difference between being smart and being a smart ass.  If you treat the butcher badly, it's probably not going to get you good meat!

That said, choose a piece of beef (or whatever), and ask them to grind it.  Sometimes you'll have to go at the end of their day.  I had a hard time getting ground pork that I needed for tourtiere.  So I picked a pork shoulder and asked for it to be ground.  No.  Cannot do it.  Ok, didn't think much of it.  As I shopped my name was called on the store's PA system.  I went back to the meat counter.  "We were about to sterilize the grinder anyway, and so ground your roast for you."  I was thrilled.  They simply were not allowed to use the grinder on pork without sterilizing it before doing beef.

When you're nice to people, it is amazing what you can get.


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## lyndalou (Feb 24, 2012)

I agree, Claire.  If you've ever worked in a job where you are dealing with the public , the smart asses can get you down. It's very hard to maintain your cool when you are being treated badly.


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## DampCharcoal (Feb 24, 2012)

Claire, I didn't mean to suggest that I would act as a smartass. That was a poor choice of words on my part, I meant more of like just joking around in a good natured way. 

My bad!


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## Soma (Feb 24, 2012)

I never trust pre-ground meat anymore, not unless done specifically by a butcher when I ask him to.

and I've recently discovered that i prefer pork to beef for meatloaf, so buy loin of pork and grind it in my food processor.


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## justplainbill (Feb 24, 2012)

This thread makes me doubly happy that in 1964 I bought my, then 65 year old,  Grandmother an Oster meat grinder for Christmas; doubly happy because it's still going strong.  I took me about 15 minutes today to grind 1 1/2 lbs of pork butt for meatballs that are currently cooking in a batch of tomato spaghetti sauce.  It took about 1/2 hour to clean and dry the grinder.  
IIR the Oster cost ~$65.


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## Kathleen (Feb 24, 2012)

DaveSoMD said:


> But I hear that yogurt maker is working well.



It worked wonderfully.


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## FrankZ (Feb 24, 2012)

It took me about 35 minutes to grind 12.5 pounds of chuck today (with the bulk of that the cutting and fat removing).

I used Lucille to do the heavy lifting on the grinding.


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## DampCharcoal (Feb 24, 2012)

"I used Lucille to do the heavy lifting on the grinding."

You named your grinder?

Excellent!


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## Kathleen (Feb 24, 2012)

DampCharcoal said:


> "I used Lucille to do the heavy lifting on the grinding."
> 
> You named your grinder?
> 
> Excellent!



There was a DC contest to name the KA when he got it.  Lucille fits.  

His food processor became Red Bettie.


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## FrankZ (Feb 24, 2012)

Lucille:







I got her some bling and she grinds the meat...


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 24, 2012)

That reminds me of the last thing a bug thinks when it splats on your windshield: "Big!!! Shiny!!!" {splat!}


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## PrincessFiona60 (Feb 24, 2012)

DampCharcoal said:


> Claire, I didn't mean to suggest that I would act as a smartass. That was a poor choice of words on my part, I meant more of like just joking around in a good natured way.
> 
> My bad!



That's how I took it, but then I am one of you...I've worked with the public all my life, they all enjoy a bright spot in their day.


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## Caslon (Feb 25, 2012)

Can anyone say if  3 major grocery chains in the US,  Vons (Safeway), Ralph's, or Albertsons will oblige someone wanting fresh ground hamburger made up from a selected cut of beef?  I doubt it. 

If you want to attempt it, get to the store before most meat department supervisors leave, around 2:00 in the afternoon, from my experience. Anyone else in the department won't do it.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 25, 2012)

Caslon said:


> Can anyone say if  3 major grocery chains in the US,  Vons (Safeway), Ralph's, or Albertsons will oblige someone wanting fresh ground hamburger made up from a selected cut of beef?  I doubt it.
> 
> If you want to attempt it, get to the store before most meat department supervisors leave, around 2:00 in the afternoon, from my experience. Anyone else in the department won't do it.



The best you would expect is to pick a package of meat that you want ground and have the meat department grind it and then stick on the original price tag. You're not going to expect any better price but wouldn't expect to be charged an additional fee to grind it.

And after 2 p.m.? You're lucky to find anything in the meat department that isn't over about 35-40 degrees F. Nor the same in IQ.


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## Caslon (Feb 25, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> The best you would expect is to pick a package of meat that you want ground and have the meat department grind it and then stick on the original price tag. You're not going to expect any better price but wouldn't expect to be charged an additional fee to grind it.
> 
> And after 2 p.m.? You're lucky to find anything in the meat department that isn't over about 35-40 degrees F. Nor the same in IQ.



Ya, heh. I was a little surprised that most meat department managers are gone by fairly early in the day.  They're probably there really really early in the morning, set the days agenda for the others, then they're gone for the day.  I'd say get to meat department by no later than 10:00 AM to speak to a meat manager.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 25, 2012)

Well... Think about how much intellectually interesting it would be running a meat department. Do you blame them for going home at 2 p.m.?


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## Caslon (Feb 25, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> Well... Think about how much intellectually interesting it would be running a meat department. Do you blame them for going home at 2 p.m.?




Haha, but you know what?  You could be working 8 hour days as a regular and have the drive to go from worker to manager. Guess what?  You work less hours as a manager, but with added responsibility , and with added pressures to make up for the pay you were making as a general type loyal worker.  Not everyone aspires to go from worker to being a manager. I can sorta see why.  It's make or break time. You make and work less than you did before, but with added incentives that you meet or don't meet.

I didn't intend to turn this into a business type discussion. I just wanted to say not every store worker who has a chance to advance from worker to manager wants to.


----------



## Claire (Feb 25, 2012)

I haven't run into gristle in ground beef in years, but I remember when I was a kid it was common.  Mom would pick up a package (5 lbs I think) of ground beef, hand it to the commissary butcher, and have it re-ground.  That pretty much took care of the problem.


----------



## Claire (Feb 25, 2012)

DampCharcoal said:


> Claire, I didn't mean to suggest that I would act as a smartass. That was a poor choice of words on my part, I meant more of like just joking around in a good natured way.
> 
> My bad!



Yeah, I really did not think you'd be rude; people like that aren't on DC!


----------



## martim (Feb 29, 2012)

DampCharcoal said:


> I don't hardly use ground meat anymore because the bits of gristle are just gross and off-putting.
> 
> I used to tolerate it but I can't anymore.
> 
> ...



ground beef is delicious! i'd rather ear ground beef than chicken. chicken is gross. my opinion. you can do a lot with ground beef.


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## Soma (Mar 1, 2012)

FrankZ: what is that gorgeous red machine? details please? Is it just a meat processor, or is it also a bread kneader? I can't see too clearly, got up at 3AM again.....drat!


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## FrankZ (Mar 1, 2012)

Soma said:


> FrankZ: what is that gorgeous red machine? details please? Is it just a meat processor, or is it also a bread kneader? I can't see too clearly, got up at 3AM again.....drat!



That is Lucillee.  She is a stunning example of the KA Pro600 and does many different things for me.  She grinds meat, she crushed fruit, she slice, she shreds, and she make my dough.  She has even stuffed sausage for me.

And she does it all without complaint.


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## Andy M. (Mar 1, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> That is Lucillee.  She is a stunning example of the KA Pro600 and does many different things for me.  She grinds meat, she crushed fruit, she slice, she shreds, and she make my dough.  She has even stuffed sausage for me.
> 
> And she does it all without complaint.



Just be careful she doesn't do a cliff dive into the nearest porcelain receptacle.


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## Janet H (Mar 1, 2012)

Frank - you really need to get Lucille some bling. Maybe a nice set of earrings?


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## FrankZ (Mar 1, 2012)

Janet H said:


> Frank - you really need to get Lucille some bling. Maybe a nice set of earrings?



Now that you mention it, I am not sure I have any pictures of her wearing her bling.. hmmm...


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## Addie (Mar 1, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> Frank, I'm not sure it's even worth the trouble to seek higher authority in a store. Honestly I don't use hamburger all that much. Sometimes I buy "buffalo" burger, sometimes I just buy what's in the meat case, sometimes I trim my own steak and give it a quick run through my food processor. If I were using hamburger all the time I might go to some effort but more often than not I cook things that don't have any relevance to hamburger. In fact off hand hamburgers are the only thing I can think of where I use ground beef.
> 
> I had the same problem with whole chickens. They didn't have any halves and I wanted them to saw a whole one in half for me. "We don't want to clean the saw for just one chicken." I ended up getting a cleaver and between that and my shears I prefer my cutting my own whole chickens now anyway, I always buy them whole whole and either cut them in half or do that thing where you make them lay flat like road kill.


 
Do you leave tire marks on them?


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 1, 2012)

No mam, them there's grill marks! 

I was talking about that thing where you flatten out but I can't remember the popular name for the procedure. IIRC I first discovered that reading the Cooking with Julia and Jacques cookbook, and thought it was really neat! In many cases it's easier to cook a whole chicken when it's flat... (unless you're stuffing it). 

Heh, heh, heh, roadkill chicken! I should look into ways to leave authentic looking tire mark shaped grill marks on them.


----------



## CharlieD (Mar 1, 2012)

I do not have the picture of mine, but here is the slightly newer model:
Kitchener #12 Electric Meat Grinder — 1/2 HP | Meat Grinders | Northern Tool + Equipment


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## bakechef (Mar 1, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:
			
		

> No mam, them there's grill marks!
> 
> I was talking about that thing where you flatten out but I can't remember the popular name for the procedure. IIRC I first discovered that reading the Cooking with Julia and Jacques cookbook, and thought it was really neat! In many cases it's easier to cook a whole chicken when it's flat... (unless you're stuffing it).
> 
> Heh, heh, heh, roadkill chicken! I should look into ways to leave authentic looking tire mark shaped grill marks on them.



Is the term "spatchcock" ?


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## TATTRAT (Mar 1, 2012)

TATTRAT said:


> Any butcher, at your request, should be happy and willing to grind whatever meat you provide them with. Go to their case, get a piece of chuck, ask them to grind it, done and done.





Caslon said:


> Can anyone say if  3 major grocery chains in the US,  Vons (Safeway), Ralph's, or Albertsons will oblige someone wanting fresh ground hamburger made up from a selected cut of beef?  I doubt it.
> 
> If you want to attempt it, get to the store before most meat department supervisors leave, around 2:00 in the afternoon, from my experience. Anyone else in the department won't do it.




Way back in the thread. . . it is a common practice. If your butcher won't do it for you, then tell him/her to kick rocks, and go elsewhere.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 1, 2012)

Sometimes there is no elsewhere. Sometimes you have to either take what you get or do it yourself. Even in the big bad city of Los Angeles our supermarkets Von's, Ralphs and Albertson's often tell us they just can't do it, too much cleaning the machine for just one order and just for the FDA. Nevermind Gelsons, they just closed their NW SFV store even with their $20/lb. steaks. Even when you charge that much you can't afford to clean the machine for just one customer.

Better to get your own grinder or use a food processor.

That was a mind blower Gelson's closing. I had thought their $20/lb steaks were just proof of _my_ failure. Now that they've closed I can see the $20/lb steaks were proof of _their_ failure! Ah, perspective...


BTW "Ralphs" is with no apostrophe. It was founded by a guy whose last name is Ralphs. Technically I suppose the market name is Ralphs' (for grammarians, but not for marketeers). AKA Kroger's in many markets and cities...


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## bakechef (Mar 2, 2012)

We have a "Lowes Foods" no apostrophe.  In the beginning the founders of Lowe's Home improvement and Lowes Foods were related, I'm not sure why one had an apostrophe and one didn't.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 2, 2012)

bakechef said:


> We have a "Lowes Foods" no apostrophe.  In the beginning the founders of Lowe's Home improvement and Lowes Foods were related, I'm not sure why one had an apostrophe and one didn't.



Maybe they were previously married and the apostrophe was part of the divorce settlement...


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## blissful (Mar 16, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> Maybe they were previously married and the apostrophe was part of the divorce settlement...




Ah the "Great Fire" (shhhhh, we never say the divorce settlement)--I lost the blender in the 'great fire', he got the canning jars in the 'great fire'. She got the periods while he got the apostrophes.
I've met people after they've been through the "Great Fire". You can always tell when reading their posts as they've lost all punctuation marks and the ability to use capitalization! It's not fair I tell you.

I love my Kitchen Aid mixer with grinding attachment. I call mine Frank. Well, not really--I haven't really named him.


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## Addie (Mar 16, 2012)

blissful said:


> Ah the "Great Fire" (shhhhh, we never say the divorce settlement)--I lost the blender in the 'great fire', he got the canning jars in the 'great fire'. She got the periods while he got the apostrophes.
> I've met people after they've been through the "Great Fire". You can always tell when reading their posts as they've lost all punctuation marks and the ability to use capitalization! It's not fair I tell you.
> 
> I love my Kitchen Aid mixer with grinding attachment. I call mine Frank. Well, not really--I haven't really named him.


 
There is nothing wrong with namng the items in our home. After all we do it for husbands. I call my Steamer "Hot Stuff." And I can't repeat some of the names for husbands. This is after all a family friendly forum.


----------



## blissful (Mar 16, 2012)

Addie said:


> There is nothing wrong with namng the items in our home. After all we do it for husbands. I call my Steamer "Hot Stuff." And I can't repeat some of the names for husbands. This is after all a family friendly forum.



Tomorrow--I'm opening 4 lbs of hamburger. I'm going to give it a good sniff test and look at the texture then make 12 hamburgers for another birthday celebration.

It's going to be crispy fried onions, sauteed mushrooms, colby cheese slices, fresh tomato slices, romaine lettuce, ketchup, mustard, sweet and dill pickle relish and then some store bought buns. Fire up the grill and let's have hamburgers!

I haven't come up with any good names for my ex husband. I wonder what happened to him, our son turned 21 yesterday, and we didn't hear a peep from him. That would be about 3 solid years of no peep. 30 years of not talking. That would be peepless. I used to say mute, my mute.


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## Andy M. (Mar 16, 2012)

I used to refer to my Ex as "B1" as she was the number one B**** in my life.  No I just don't refer to her at all.  Maybe, "She whose name must never be spoken" is a better choice.


----------



## blissful (Mar 16, 2012)

Andy M. said:


> Maybe, "She whose name must never be spoken" is a better choice.



I like that one! You are talking about Moldywart, right--something close to that?

Once, I heard, from a friend, that everyone is someone else's weirdo. I think that is probably true. I'm his weirdo, he's mine. I'm overcome with nausea, I have no idea why!


----------



## Addie (Mar 16, 2012)

blissful said:


> Tomorrow--I'm opening 4 lbs of hamburger. I'm going to give it a good sniff test and look at the texture then make 12 hamburgers for another birthday celebration.
> 
> It's going to be crispy fried onions, sauteed mushrooms, colby cheese slices, fresh tomato slices, romaine lettuce, ketchup, mustard, sweet and dill pickle relish and then some store bought buns. Fire up the grill and let's have hamburgers!


 
Massachusetts has looked into the 'pink slime.' Starting next fall, it will no longer be part of Bostons' School cafeteria lunches. I am so glad I always packed a lunch for my kids. This is not the first problem with the food found in our school lunches. Think your child is getting real orange juice? Take a look at the ingredients. Mostly chemicals and powdered orange dust. The same junk that they serve in the hospital. Fortunately, our schools are taking a second look at what they are serving our children. And I am becoming more selective with what I put in my shopping cart. I have become an avid label reader.


----------



## blissful (Mar 16, 2012)

Addie said:


> Massachusetts has looked into the 'pink slime.' Starting next fall, it will no longer be part of Bostons' School cafeteria lunches. I am so glad I always packed a lunch for my kids. This is not the first problem with the food found in our school lunches. Think your child is getting real orange juice? Take a look at the ingredients. Mostly chemicals and powdered orange dust. The same junk that they serve in the hospital. Fortunately, our schools are taking a second look at what they are serving our children. And I am becoming more selective with what I put in my shopping cart. I have become an avid label reader.



I absolutely agree with you on the pink slime issue, which I've been reading about.
My ground beef, is labeled 'ground beef'--it has the dept of agriculture approval on it. Do you know what it means? I don't.

I don't buy orange juice, I only buy oranges.


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## Addie (Mar 16, 2012)

blissful said:


> I absolutely agree with you on the pink slime issue, which I've been reading about.
> My ground beef, is labeled 'ground beef'--it has the dept of agriculture approval on it. Do you know what it means? I don't.
> 
> I don't buy orange juice, I only buy oranges.


 
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/03/where-you-can-get-pink-slime-free-beef/

An interesting read and not too long. It list stores that do not have pink slime in their ground meat.


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## Addie (Mar 16, 2012)

I have a meat grinder for my KA and I buy a good cut of chuck and grind that. I never buy ground 'beef' at the supermarket. You never really know what you are getting. Most of the time it is the leftover trimmings from that days' work in the back room.


----------



## blissful (Mar 16, 2012)

Addie said:


> I have a meat grinder for my KA and I buy a good cut of chuck and grind that. I never buy ground 'beef' at the supermarket. You never really know what you are getting. Most of the time it is the leftover trimmings from that days' work in the back room.



I bought a half a beef--I just don't know what the USDA label means or what 'ground beef' means. Not from a supermarket, from a butcher.


----------



## Addie (Mar 16, 2012)

blissful said:


> I bought a half a beef--I just don't know what the USDA label means or what 'ground beef' means. Not from a supermarket, from a butcher.


 
My guess would be that you are not getting pink slime. It is used mostly in large supermarkets.


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## taxlady (Mar 16, 2012)

Addie said:


> I have a meat grinder for my KA and I buy a good cut of chuck and grind that. I never buy ground 'beef' at the supermarket. You never really know what you are getting. Most of the time it is the leftover trimmings from that days' work in the back room.



Unless I get it on special, chuck costs about $10/kg (~$4.54/lb). All the chuck we see is blade roast, blade steak, and European blade roast or steak. I don't think they have started using pink slime in Canada. Crossing my fingers.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 16, 2012)

blissful said:


> Tomorrow--I'm opening 4 lbs of hamburger. I'm going to give it a good sniff test and look at the texture then make 12 hamburgers for another birthday celebration.



It sort of sounds like you're going to use it whether it passes the sniff test or not!  (I'm sure you meant to imply you'd use something else otherwise.)



blissful said:


> It's going to be crispy fried onions, sauteed mushrooms, colby cheese slices, fresh tomato slices, romaine lettuce, ketchup, mustard, sweet and dill pickle relish and then some store bought buns. Fire up the grill and let's have hamburgers!



Sounds good!!! Particularly the crispy fried onions and the sauteed mushrooms! 



blissful said:


> I haven't come up with any good names for my ex husband. I wonder what happened to him, our son turned 21 yesterday, and we didn't hear a peep from him. That would be about 3 solid years of no peep. 30 years of not talking. That would be peepless. I used to say mute, my mute.



I'm sure this is off topic but I'm trying to wrap my mind around the concept that you and ex haven't talked for 30 years and yet son is just now 21. That must have been a very strange 9 years... 



blissful said:


> I absolutely agree with you on the pink slime issue, which I've been reading about. My ground beef, is labeled 'ground beef'--it has the dept of agriculture approval on it. Do you know what it means? I don't.



Just note, "pink slime" legally qualifies as ground beef. It comes from real cows. That's the big problem about "pink slime," that the manufacturer does not have to disclose that PS is added to the product.

Also noting, I first heard about "pink slime" here at DC about 7-10 days ago, and it just made the ABC news in the last 1-2 days. I mean this as a compliment to DC forum and its members.


----------



## blissful (Mar 16, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> It sort of sounds like you're going to use it whether it passes the sniff test or not!  (I'm sure you meant to imply you'd use something else otherwise.)



actually I've had 4 lbs of it already and it was great--though I didn't look at it in a microscope or magnifying glass.



> this is off topic but I'm trying to wrap my mind around the concept that you and ex haven't talked for 30 years and yet son is just now 21. That must have been a very strange 9 years...


He was married to his job and mute while at home while we were together for 18 years. He did not talk. He did not move his mouth, though, he thought he was communicating. See, this is just the same behavior he is exhibiting now with his children--nothing has changed.



> Just note, "pink slime" legally qualifies as ground beef. It comes from real cows. That's the big problem about "pink slime," that the manufacturer does not have to disclose that PS is added to the product.


And THAT is what I'm afraid of.


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## Addie (Mar 16, 2012)

Blissful, my first husband was like that. He would come home from work, sit down in front of the TV, pick up the paper and if he didn't feel like coming to the dinner table, I would bring him his food. Don't talk to him if he is reading, watching TV or eating. It was worse whenever he worked the swing shift. I wouldn't see him for a whole week. I would leave his food in a warm oven. He died with all those words that could have been spoken between us stuck inside him.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 16, 2012)

blissful said:


> actually I've had 4 lbs of it already and it was  great--though I didn't look at it in a microscope or magnifying glass.
> 
> He was married to his job and mute while at home while we were together  for 18 years. He did not talk. He did not move his mouth, though, he  thought he was communicating. See, this is just the same behavior he is  exhibiting now with his children--nothing has changed.
> 
> And THAT is what I'm afraid of.


You already had 4 pounds?!? !?! Wow you must have been really, really full!!! 

I know what you mean, perhaps what (author) Sue Grafton refers to as "making social mouth noises," but without communicating anything worth listening to.

Well the pink slime qualifies as "real beef" as far as the FDA is concerned. It makes you wonder about purchasing ground beef products at all...


----------



## blissful (Mar 16, 2012)

Addie--I felt bad for him that he didn't talk too. There were so many silent years.



Gourmet Greg said:


> You already had 4 pounds?!? !?! Wow you must have been really, really full!!!
> 
> I know what you mean, perhaps what Sue Grafton refers to as "making social mouth noises," but without communicating anything worth listening to.
> 
> Well the pink slime qualifies as "real beef" as far as the FDA is concerned. It makes you wonder about purchasing ground products at all...



Ummm.......we already had 2 lbs that were a sample they gave us, and then some more hamburger and macaroni with sauce. It was good. Still I worry if they ground up just about anything.

About a person not talking. What I mean is that he did not talk. Actually, no, he didn't make any noises. I'd say during dinner, 'would you like ketchup with that?', we'd stare at his mouth, it never moved, so I'd repeat the question and he'd say nothing, and not take any ketchup. It was tiring after the first 10 years, it was lonely. I don't know much about what he did for a living, never met any of his friends, if he had any. He never reported to me if he was not coming home--but I'd check with the hospitals and my parents would drive through snow to check to see if he was broken down on the road. (because I was home with the three boys) I'd tell him about our day's events, and he gave me no feed-back. It was just bizarre and lonely.


----------



## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 16, 2012)

Sorry blissful, that's even worse. I can't imagine living in such a household.

Social mouth noises are better:

Hi, how are you?
Fine, and you?
I'm fine too.
Want some ketchup with that?
No, I'm fine.
How was everything?
Okay.
How about them Mets?
Yeah. Whatever.
Do you wanna watch ????? program on TV tonight?
No, I'd rather take a shower.

That's social mouth noises. Pure silence is different. Pathological. I'd get away from somebody who refused to interact at all. I guess you did.


----------



## blissful (Mar 16, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> That's social mouth noises. Pure silence is different. Pathological. I'd get away from somebody who refused to interact at all. I guess you did.



He just didn't need any interaction in that way.
Yes I did get away. But it's not all bad news, I had three very talkative boys. The youngest doesn't talk much now but when he was little, he just never stopped. And that's the good news.

About the hamburger--I wish there was a pink slime test I could do--to see what I've got here. I still have 3 lbs of walmart hamburger I'd like to test too.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 16, 2012)

There is no pink slime test. Pink slime is just disgusting parts of underutilized beef byproducts. It's still beef. Any test that tests for beef would test positive. AFAIK there is no test that could test for presence of "pink slime." It's not illegal, it's not regulated, it's just disgusting.


----------



## blissful (Mar 16, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> Hi, how are you?
> Fine, and you?
> I'm fine too.



Glad to know that. 

Sorry I was so off topic in my last post or so--but it does fit under the part of the title regarding 'stinks'. 

Thanks for the info on the beef byproducts and the lack of testing information.


----------



## Addie (Mar 16, 2012)

The only way I can think of to test your burger meat is to take a steak or other piece of whole meat and compare it to the burger for color. Turn the burger over and use the bottom to make the comparison. The blood from the meat if it is pure, will make the burger darker as it drains to the bottom.  Also, with pink slime there won't be as much blood as you would get in pure beef. If the burger is much lighter, I would say that you have pink slime. Also look inside the burger. Just compare it with a good piece of beef that hasn't been ground. 

Anyone have any other ideas on how she can tell?

Saying that sound like you has a horrible disease.


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## buckytom (Mar 16, 2012)

addie and bliss, why in the world did you marry guys like that? were they different at first, then completely changed?


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## blissful (Mar 16, 2012)

buckytom said:


> addie and bliss, why in the world did you marry guys like that? were they different at first, then completely changed?


I was young and stupid.
Yes he was communicating normally until after the 2 year romance leading to our marriage.


----------



## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 16, 2012)

We were all young and stupid. We just made different stupid mistakes.


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## blissful (Mar 16, 2012)

Addie said:


> Saying that sound like you has a horrible disease.



I do, it's called life. j/k It won't kill you, it makes you stronger.


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## TATTRAT (Mar 17, 2012)

blissful said:


> I was young and stupid.
> Yes he was communicating normally until after the 2 year romance leading to our marriage.



LMAO


----------



## Addie (Mar 17, 2012)

buckytom said:


> addie and bliss, why in the world did you marry guys like that? were they different at first, then completely changed?


 
I was 17. What the heck did I know. He wasn't like that when we were dating. And during the first year it was all right. Then he got injured really bad on the job. That is when he changed. He was in a lot of pain for three months. Then as he started to get better, that is when he just had nothing to say. I was having a bad pregnancy and we fell into a pattern and it never changed.


----------



## buckytom (Mar 17, 2012)

i'm sorry, that sucks for both of you. i guess it's the luck of the draw whether you grow together or apart.


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## TATTRAT (Mar 17, 2012)

buckytom said:


> i'm sorry, that sucks for both of you. i guess it's the luck of the draw whether you grow together or apart.



I am not sure how much "luck" is involved, as far as I have learned, that is the ONLY way relationships seem to go.

Addie, so sorry, love. Tough spot. . .


----------



## Barbara L (Mar 17, 2012)

blissful said:


> Addie--I felt bad for him that he didn't talk too. There were so many silent years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


About not talking--I rode along with another teacher to a seminar we were both attending. It was 40-50 miles away. She was really quiet, but I would talk and ask questions now and then and she would give a very short response. I figured she didn't like me. On the way back I decided that I was going to be quiet and let her say the first word. We rode the whole way back in complete silence.  I found out later that her parents were the same way. The three of them lived together and didn't speak. I'm sure there had to be a word here and there, but pretty much just silence. That would drive me crazy!  And I have no idea how she managed teaching 5th grade!


----------



## PrincessFiona60 (Mar 17, 2012)

TATTRAT said:


> I am not sure how much "luck" is involved, as far as I have learned, that is the ONLY way relationships seem to go.
> 
> Addie, so sorry, love. Tough spot. . .



Then you meet total aberrations, mutations like Shrek and I who only get closer as time goes by...of course if I quit cooking the weight would go down and we'd get farther apart...


----------



## blissful (Mar 17, 2012)

Barbara L said:


> About not talking--I rode along with another teacher to a seminar we were both attending. It was 40-50 miles away. She was really quiet, but I would talk and ask questions now and then and she would give a very short response. I figured she didn't like me.



That is how I felt too--like I wasn't worth talking with.
It turns out that we are all on a spectrum of interaction and communication. Some of us are extroverts some are introverts and some are both. One is not better than the other, they both have their own gifts.

To summarize my post below: blau blau blau-hamburger-experiment.

With my ex, he was born 2nd and his brother was handicapped and the handicapped son got all the attention. His parents needed a quiet child, so he was nurtured this way.

So, some of it is nature and some of it is nurture.

In addition to that, it was a power and control issue. I was like the puppy wagging it's tail looking for some interaction from him. Ready to love and entertain him for years upon end. He was the silent partner.  Since he could communicate, as he did in the beginning and he could communicate with horrible nasty things at the end--he had the ability, he just wasn't motivated to communicate.

I personally don't think people 'have' to grow apart if both people are willing to keep trying to communicate and do some things together--go towards some common goals and care for each other. Even sometimes if only one person will keep caring for the other person, to help them feel appreciated and loved, it can turn things around and they can fall in love (a deeper kind of love) all over again.

Addie--I'm sorry this happened to you. Sometimes pain takes it's toll and it's like in the movie umm I think it is Michael (the angel-travolta) there are only a limited number of battles a person can have on this earth (scene-bull vs angel). It's like the heart can only take so much.

And Addie--you have a good idea. I'll open the two kinds of hamburger in a little while and take pictures comparing the walmart package with the butcher package of hamburger. I'll look at the grind of it, the color of it, and the blood content. 
I wanted to make burgers to refreeze for future use, so it will be a useful experiment.


----------



## Addie (Mar 17, 2012)

TATTRAT said:


> I am not sure how much "luck" is involved, as far as I have learned, that is the ONLY way relationships seem to go.
> 
> Addie, so sorry, love. Tough spot. . .


 
Thank you Tat. I have outlived two husbands. But in exchange, I have a lot of very good friends that I treasure. Both husbands were alcoholics. But neither one was violent and both were very much afraid of me. The first one I would tell him I want a divorce and he would just quit drinking for about six months or so. The second one went to AA, but it was harder for him to stay sober. He died of cancer. The first one died of Alzheimer's. It was a long slow death. Son #1 still has his ashes. Sometimes he keeps them in his work truck. They are on the seat next to him. If he is picking up someone, he tells them not to sit on his father. There are some people who won't ride in his truck. He was supossed to bring the ashes to the Britich Embassy in Boston years ago to be sent back to England to be scattered. The kids tell me that I am going to spend eternity with him. They are going to mix our ashes together.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 17, 2012)

The best revenge is always outliving somebody.


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## Addie (Mar 22, 2012)

Kroger, Stop & Shop join 'pink slime' exodus | Comcast

We, the public do matter. They hear us roar. Worth the read.


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## blissful (Mar 27, 2012)

Finally, here is the picture of walmart ground beef on the left and butcher ground beef on the right. Pink slime, who knows.


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef (Mar 27, 2012)

I buy my ground beef from Omaha Steaks and I have never had a problem with it. If I do have a problem with anything I buy from them, even if the problem is I just didn't like it, I send them an email and they charge back the price, plus shipping, to my credit card.


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## taxlady (Mar 27, 2012)

blissful said:


> Finally, here is the picture of walmart ground beef on the left and butcher ground beef on the right. Pink slime, who knows.



ewwwww


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## Andy M. (Mar 27, 2012)

blissful said:


> Finally, here is the picture of walmart ground beef on the left and butcher ground beef on the right. Pink slime, who knows.




The stuff on the left could have been slimed.  Clearly the stuff on the right is quite lean.  Fatty beef is naturally a lighter color than lean beef and could have been made lighter with slime.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 27, 2012)

blissful said:


> Finally, here is the picture of walmart ground beef on the left and butcher ground beef on the right. Pink slime, who knows.





Andy M. said:


> The stuff on the left could have been slimed.  Clearly the stuff on the right is quite lean.  Fatty beef is naturally a lighter color than lean beef and could have been made lighter with slime.


Blissful nor you nor I have any way to tell if Walmart slimed their beef. Nor the butcher either. The one on the left is lighter, on the right as darker and more red, but who can tell if their GB got slimed? They don't even have to list it in ingredients because pink slime is technically the same as beef. It is beef!

It's yucky beef...


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## blissful (Mar 27, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> Blissful nor you nor I have any way to tell if Walmart slimed their beef. Nor the butcher either. The one on the left is lighter, on the right as darker and more red, but who can tell if their GB got slimed? They don't even have to list it in ingredients because pink slime is technically the same as beef. It is beef!
> 
> It's yucky beef...



I quite agree. When I cooked the Walmart burger, I added no fat, when I cooked the butcher ground beef I HAD to add fat.........in either case, I have no idea if pink slime was added.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 27, 2012)

As far as I can perceive "pink slime" has little or nothing to do with how much fat the GB has. Depending on the fat concentration of the slime it might either increase or reduce the fat content of the GB.

As far as my long time but little depth cooking experience tells me, hamburgers probably taste better with higher fat content GB. I think the public's first perception of any hamburger has more to do with fat content than anything else. The second perception probably has more to do with the accoutrements than the hamburger patty.

Whether or not your hamburger got slimed probably has little to do with how it tastes, or even IMO how good or bad it is for your health. I think it has a lot more to do with your comprehension of exactly what you are eating. If you don't know about pink slime you'll either accept or reject the hamburger based upon the taste. If you know it got slimed then you probably will be inclined to reject it.

I think that's silly about the "slime" being treated with a bit of ammonia gas. I think this issue is all about the public not liking the idea that beef waste products are being recycled into their hamburger meat.

Whatever the heck happened to the dog food market? I thought all this stuff went into dog food. Maybe they've been introducing vegetables into our dog's diet so that they an sell the meat at better profit elsewhere. Maybe they want us all to have vegetarian dogs so that they can slime our hamburgers and get more money...


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## Addie (Mar 28, 2012)

I think the public is turned off by the term "slime". It certainly doesn't sound very appetizing. And then add to that 'left over bits and  pieces' doesn't help the image any. But the final blow is the word "ammonia." That is a cleaning agent and poison at that. We don't hear the word 'gas.' 

I doubt the public will ever accept it. The plants that produces the pink slime has shut down its processing plants (there are three of them)  in the hopes that they can open again within the next 60 days. Their employees will receive a full salary during those 60 days. 

If they took these  pieces of meat and made giant vats of gravy to sell to the pet food industry, they could still operate and keep their employees working for a paycheck. That would be the sensible thing to do. Silly dreamer that I am. Large supermarkets use the trimmings from their different cuts for ground beef. The fat goes into one bucket and the pieces of meat into another And the bones into another bucket. At the end of the day, a certain percentage of the fat is added to the pieces of beef and sold as ground beef. If it says ground chuck, it is ground chuck. The same for ground sirloin. The rest of the fat and bones along with the beef is sold to a company that sells slop to pig farms. Farmers mix it with ground grain. The company grinds up the bones, fat and beef and package it in buckets. Nothing goes to waste. 

(Son #1's godfather was a meatcutter supervisor for many years for Stop and Shop. He used to tell me some hair raising stories about what went on in the cutting room.)

Oddly enough, in the wild, pigs eat plant material, not meat.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 28, 2012)

Addie said:


> Oddly enough, in the wild, pigs eat plant material, not meat.


Oddly enough, in the commercial environment, pigs not only get fed meat but probably get fed pig meat too. Which means that the public is being fed cannibal pigs.


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## FrankZ (Mar 28, 2012)

Addie said:


> I think the public is turned off by the term "slime". It certainly doesn't sound very appetizing. And then add to that 'left over bits and  pieces' doesn't help the image any. But the final blow is the word "ammonia." That is a cleaning agent and poison at that. We don't hear the word 'gas.'
> 
> I doubt the public will ever accept it. The plants that produces the  pink slime has shut down its processing plants (there are three of them)   in the hopes that they can open again within the next 60 days. Their  employees will receive a full salary during those 60 days.



And oddly the term "slime" wasn't used by Beef Productions Inc to describe their product.  People are unhappy that more of the animal is being used and prices are lower.  What most people want is only the choicest bits to be used and prices to be lower, it doesn't work that way.

The 60 day thing is likely the Federal WARN act kicking in.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 28, 2012)

I think _they_ call it LFTB, "lean finely textured beef."


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## FrankZ (Mar 28, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> I think _they_ call it LFTB, "lean finely textured beef."



Which doesn't sound anywhere near as negative (and sounds like it might be made of something out of a cow) as pink slime, which sounds like it was just concocted on a Nickelodeon set.

It is all about the spin I suppose.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 28, 2012)

Would you eat it? I'd avoid it if possible. I'd rather buy unground meat cuts and run them through my food processor to get ground meat.

It's like the old adage "better to not look too closely at what goes into sausage, or politics." Now that I know what's going into ground meat I'm reluctant to accept it.


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## FrankZ (Mar 28, 2012)

For home use I do grind my own, but for the most part it saves me money.  I like my ground meat pretty lean and the really lean at the store is absolutely criminal in pricing at times.

When I have a burger out I can eat a McDonalds or Burger King on the go and not have a complaint.  I find I can enjoy food, good or bad, without being a snob about it.  Some people hear the word McDonalds and they will put their nose in the sky.  

I think too many people get too caught up in making sure they only eat the most organic, free range, unprocessed blah blah blah that the forget to try and just enjoy things... or mayhaps it is just me.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 28, 2012)

I want a free range cow-burger served on free range buns, and with free range cheese and mayonnaise and onions and relish, oh and free range mushrooms and free range bacon...


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## FrankZ (Mar 28, 2012)

Are you going to season it with organic free range salt?


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 28, 2012)

I make my own sea salt by capturing wild free range seawater and drying it under natural free range solar sun...


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## Addie (Mar 28, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> For home use I do grind my own, but for the most part it saves me money. I like my ground meat pretty lean and the really lean at the store is absolutely criminal in pricing at times.
> 
> When I have a burger out I can eat a McDonalds or Burger King on the go and not have a complaint. I find I can enjoy food, good or bad, without being a snob about it. Some people hear the word McDonalds and they will put their nose in the sky.
> 
> I think too many people get too caught up in making sure they only eat the most organic, free range, unprocessed blah blah blah that the forget to try and just enjoy things... or mayhaps it is just me.


 
I often go right past a BK. And in the summer months, I go up to the beach just a few minutes from my home. The BK is located right across the street from the entrance. And I, along with the rest of the multitude make my pilgrimage to the shrine of the burger. No fries. Just a cheeseburger and a small soda. I also am near a Dunkin' Donut. I sometime stop in there and get a large lemon iced drink in the summer. Then there is the Royal Roast Beef place. I will order a small RB with sauce and then go to BK or DD for my drink. I don't believe in showing favorites. All of these establishments are right near the entrance to the beach. During the rest of the year, I continue to show my loyalty to my local businesses. I often get a coupon in the mail from BK for a free breakfast. I take advantage of it. A FREE meal. Not everytime. Sometimes it is just too cold for me to take a trip on my scooter. Just for giggles I have gone up to the drive-thru window and ordered. I love to see the person inside stretch to reach me to hand me my order.


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## taxlady (Mar 29, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> ...
> 
> I think too many people get too caught up in making sure they only eat the most organic, free range, unprocessed blah blah blah that the forget to try and just enjoy things... or mayhaps it is just me.



I think it tastes better when it's made of food.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 29, 2012)

Pink slime _is_ food! It just took a few detours after getting cut off the side of beef, and sniffed some ammonia gas ("Wheeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!") before getting back together with its ground cousins. Just think of it as part of your hamburger getting high on ammonia before jumping in your plate. 

Really. I think the idea of this thing is the real controversy, not the healthfulness of it. It's still beef, it still has whatever fat content your product has on the label. If anybody could taste or measure the ammonia they would have already said so.

And here's another question for you pink slime objectors. (I'll admit I'm one of them.) If you really don't like the idea of pink slime, why are you eating sausage? (If you are...) I'll bet whatever goes into your sausage is far worse than a pink slimed hamburger.


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## bakechef (Mar 29, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:
			
		

> Pink slime is food! It just took a few detours after getting cut off the side of beef, and sniffed some ammonia gas ("Wheeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!") before getting back together with its ground cousins. Just think of it as part of your hamburger getting high on ammonia before jumping in your plate.
> 
> Really. I think the idea of this thing is the real controversy, not the healthfulness of it. It's still beef, it still has whatever fat content your product has on the label. If anybody could taste or measure the ammonia they would have already said so.
> 
> And here's another question for you pink slime objectors. (I'll admit I'm one of them.) If you really don't like the idea of pink slime, why are you eating sausage? (If you are...) I'll bet whatever goes into your sausage is far worse than a pink slimed hamburger.



I almost never eat sausage or other processed meat, maybe a hot dog or two a year.

I don't want pink slime in my ground beef simply because it is processed meat and that fact has been hidden to us until recently.  I don't think that it is dangerous, but if I buy ground meat, I just want raw meat, the type indicated on the package, ground.  If I want byproducts I'll buy processed meat.  I buy mostly ground chuck, or round, and expect the package to contain just that.  

In my store (large chain) "ground beef" is made from grinding up scraps, "chuck" and all others come to the meat department as "chunks" in big packages, ready to grind, pre-measured for fat content.  I think that the cheaper "ground beef" is actually the one least likely to contain pink slime.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 30, 2012)

Well I agree with you there BC, that neither of us wants to each much processed meat. I'll process it myself from whole cuts if I want processed meat.

Interesting your comment: " I think that the cheaper 'ground beef' is actually the one least likely to contain pink slime. It's obvious that sliming more expensive cuts is more profitable, just considering the final price per pound. However the slime issue came up regarding cheap ground beef sold to schools. I don't know.


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## bakechef (Mar 30, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> Well I agree with you there BC, that neither of us wants to each much processed meat. I'll process it myself from whole cuts if I want processed meat.
> 
> Interesting your comment: " I think that the cheaper 'ground beef' is actually the one least likely to contain pink slime. It's obvious that sliming more expensive cuts is more profitable, just considering the final price per pound. However the slime issue came up regarding cheap ground beef sold to schools. I don't know.



What I meant by that, if I didn't make myself clear (I was typing on my phone), is that the cheaper "ground beef" that is sold in my store is made from scraps that the meat cutters save, from steaks, roasts etc..  And as far as I know, they don't have any pink slime to add to it (I work in the store).  The stuff that comes packaged in what looks like 15 pound tubes that is dumped into the grinder, is more likely to have the pink slime in it, because it is packed by the meat processor.  These huge tubes are where specific types of ground beef come from.  I would imagine that with large chain stores, that grinding this way is fairly common practice.  With the popularity of ground beef, I can't see most stores having enough "scrap" to make all of their ground beef, since in many cases ground beef is far more popular than roasts and steaks.

Luckily most stores in my area say that they are going to stop using it.  But I'm suspicious, since it doesn't need to be disclosed on the label, how long before it sneaks back in?  I give it a year.  Once they can raise the price on beef because they are not using it, they can sneak it back in and continue to keep the price higher.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 30, 2012)

I agree with you BC that the meat is slimed probably at a higher level than local markets. It is of course a well known practice to cut up a side of beef and part it out to the various cuts, then take the miscellaneous left overs and turn them into hamburger. I can't quite picture the typical meat market clerk grabbing the slime and mixing it in.

I said "meat merket clerk" because of the time I asked a meat market clerk at Ralphs Market (Kroeger's) how to cook some item (perhaps soke kind of roast) and he told me he only cuts them, doesn't know jack about how to cook the stuff. I lament the passing of the days when your local butcher was an expert on everything they sold including cooking suggestions.

I can quite imagine the local markets getting big (15 pound?) tubes of ground beef and packaging it into smaller sizes... Speaking of taking trimming scraps and combining it into ground beef, I wonder how they determine the fat content. I'm pretty sure markets are required to have no more fat content than specified on the label. How do they comply with that, test it or something? Specific gravity? (I'm sure fat weighs less than meat per unit volume.) They could probably cram a calibrated volume container and weigh it, then have the machine report the fat content...

Are the stores going to use it? Well the plant shut down for two months. If you're as much a cynic as I then you'll agree they'll probably start using it agin in two months. Otherwise what are all those returned LFTB workers going to be working on?

I'd be more worried if I were eating my lunch at a school. IIRC that's where the controversy first came up, "They're feeding our children ammonia drenched beef scraps!!!"


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## bakechef (Mar 30, 2012)

I'll have to ask our meat manager how he determines the fat percentage on meat that he grinds from scraps.

The "scraps" in the big tube are already pre-measured for fat, but I'm not sure how they determine random scraps.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Mar 30, 2012)

It will be interesting if you can find out. I googled it a few minutes and couldn't find an answer.


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## blissful (Apr 3, 2012)

I loved reading this thread. You people are so funny, I laughed out loud. (and informative too)

I saw this article: ASA Foods Blames 'Pink Slime' Controversy For Pushing It Into Bankruptcy

My interpretation is this: We can't sell you nothing for something, so, stomp stomp stomp. They are having a tantrum and they are going to go into bankruptcy. (next -- WE NEED A BAIL OUT TOO.)

So not unlike:
Selling chocolate with added AIR.
Fat free candy that never had fat in it to begin with.
Sugar free spice mixes that never had sugar to begin with. (yes I know about prepositions and how I abuse them)
20 years ago water was free, now it's in bad plastic that can make you sick and costs you more.

What they want is to sell unwanted beef parts--veins, eyes, noses, etc (this is not factual in any way, I'm just making it up), ground very finely to sell to you at ground roast and steak prices. AND YOU the uneducated (we want you uneducated) public wants MEAT when you buy meat. HOW DARE YOU!

I did take marketing in school but there was not a course called 'scamming the public for profit'.
If they said on the label, finely ground unwanted beef parts--and I bought it, then that is fine. But that's not what they are doing.


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## blissful (Apr 3, 2012)

bakechef said:


> I'll have to ask our meat manager how he determines the fat percentage on meat that he grinds from scraps.
> 
> The "scraps" in the big tube are already pre-measured for fat, but I'm not sure how they determine random scraps.





Gourmet Greg said:


> It will be interesting if you can find out. I googled it a few minutes and couldn't find an answer.



I don't know but wonder if they don't cook it down, separate the warm fat from the solids and measure them at that point? After doing that a few hundred times they could estimate the fat to meat ratio on the package, I would guess.
Don't we have any meat cutter's here that know the answer?


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## FrankZ (Apr 3, 2012)

blissful said:


> What they want is to sell unwanted beef parts--veins, eyes, noses, etc (this is not factual in any way, I'm just making it up), ground very finely to sell to you at ground roast and steak prices. AND YOU the uneducated (we want you uneducated) public wants MEAT when you buy meat. HOW DARE YOU!



I have seen nothing to indicate that the LFTB is not meat.  It was just meat that went to pet food and oils as it was considered undesirable.  Calling it pink slime means people won't eat it.  It really is a case of reverse marketing.  

People always want the very best that can be had, but they want to pay paupers prices.  It doesn't work that way.  This filler allows ground meat to be sold cheaper.  Now people will complain about the price increase.  Food companies are not in the business to feed the world.  They are in the business to make money.


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## blissful (Apr 3, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> I have seen nothing to indicate that the LFTB is not meat.  It was just meat that went to pet food and oils as it was considered undesirable.  Calling it pink slime means people won't eat it.  It really is a case of reverse marketing.
> 
> People always want the very best that can be had, but they want to pay paupers prices.  It doesn't work that way.  This filler allows ground meat to be sold cheaper.  Now people will complain about the price increase.  Food companies are not in the business to feed the world.  They are in the business to make money.



You are correct, it is meat and it is business. I'm a consumer and I want to buy exactly what I'm paying for when I buy meat. 

I love haggis too. But I want meat when I buy meat--but not that kind of meat.I want fat and roasts ground up when I buy ground beef.

Invitation: FrankZ, I'm having a big dinner tonight, would you like to come over? I'm having meat.
On Saturday I'm having a finely ground meat product of undisclosed beef parts.
On Sunday I'm having ground beef roasts with beef fat.

Which day will you be accepting my invitation?


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## FrankZ (Apr 3, 2012)

Either is good.. just as long as there are no brussel sprouts... can't abide those things.


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## blissful (Apr 3, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> Either is good.. just as long as there are no brussel sprouts... can't abide those things.



DANG now I have to think of another side dish. How are you with kimchi or honey glazed carrots?


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## FrankZ (Apr 3, 2012)

Depends on the kimchi, but I am open to trying it.  Some is good, some is dreadful.

Not a huge fan of cooked carrots, but I would give em a go.  Brussel sprouts, on the other hand, are the work of evil.  And not the fun happy Disney kind of evil, more like the Ben Affleck starred in it kind of evil.


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## taxlady (Apr 3, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> I have seen nothing to indicate that the LFTB is not meat.  It was just meat that went to pet food and oils as it was considered undesirable.  Calling it pink slime means people won't eat it.  It really is a case of reverse marketing.
> 
> People always want the very best that can be had, but they want to pay paupers prices.  It doesn't work that way.  This filler allows ground meat to be sold cheaper.  Now people will complain about the price increase.  Food companies are not in the business to feed the world.  They are in the business to make money.



I agree with you except on one point. There is a small amount of ammonia left in the LFTB when it is added to the ground beef. That means it is not 100% meat. The FDA calls it a processing aid, so it doesn't have to be listed. If I am buying ground *beef*, I don't want any "processing aids" left in my meat. I'm pretty sure I don't want there to have been chemical processing involved at all.

We do seem to live in a culture that wants cheap food, but doesn't want to know why it's cheap.


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## bakechef (Apr 3, 2012)

FrankZ said:
			
		

> I have seen nothing to indicate that the LFTB is not meat.  It was just meat that went to pet food and oils as it was considered undesirable.  Calling it pink slime means people won't eat it.  It really is a case of reverse marketing.
> 
> People always want the very best that can be had, but they want to pay paupers prices.  It doesn't work that way.  This filler allows ground meat to be sold cheaper.  Now people will complain about the price increase.  Food companies are not in the business to feed the world.  They are in the business to make money.



If people have no problem eating it, then great!  I want to know what is in my food, if there is processed beef product in my ground beef, then I want it disclosed.  I try to avoid processed meats when possible.  

It may be perfectly fine to eat, but that's not my point, I want the label to reflect exactly what is in my food, so I can choose to avoid it if I choose.  There is a reason that meat processors are fighting to keep it off the labels, many people don't want it.


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## blissful (Apr 3, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> Depends on the kimchi, but I am open to trying it.  Some is good, some is dreadful.
> 
> Not a huge fan of cooked carrots, but I would give em a go.  Brussel sprouts, on the other hand, are the work of evil.  And not the fun happy Disney kind of evil, more like the Ben Affleck starred in it kind of evil.



I've heard that about kimchi, mine is dreadful, only I like it and those that eat with me.

I've also heard that brussel spouts did start WWII. It's a tragedy. The death and evil caused by this one vegetable is almost too much.


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## FrankZ (Apr 3, 2012)

taxlady said:


> I agree with you except on one point. There is a small amount of ammonia left in the LFTB when it is added to the ground beef. That means it is not 100% meat. The FDA calls it a processing aid, so it doesn't have to be listed. If I am buying ground *beef*, I don't want any "processing aids" left in my meat. I'm pretty sure I don't want there to have been chemical processing involved at all.
> 
> We do seem to live in a culture that wants cheap food, but doesn't want to know why it's cheap.



I wonder how much silicon makes it into ground beef as well that isn't reported.


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## taxlady (Apr 3, 2012)

bakechef said:


> If people have no problem eating it, then great!  I want to know what is in my food, if there is processed beef product in my ground beef, then I want it disclosed.  I try to avoid processed meats when possible.
> 
> It may be perfectly fine to eat, but that's not my point, I want the label to reflect exactly what is in my food, so I can choose to avoid it if I choose.  There is a reason that meat processors are fighting to keep it off the labels, many people don't want it.



+1


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## Steve Kroll (Apr 3, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> People always want the very best that can be had, but they want to pay paupers prices. It doesn't work that way. This filler allows ground meat to be sold cheaper. Now people will complain about the price increase.


Frank, to some extent this may be true, but I think the root of the "pink slime" problem is that, for many years, it has been surreptitiously added to commercial ground beef without the consumer's knowledge. Nor is there anything on the package to indicate that the meat has been treated with ammonium hydroxide. That smacks of deceptive labeling.

It may be perfectly safe but, then again, it may not. I'm not aware of any long term studies. The one thing I do know is that ammonium hydroxide is the stuff that gives hair dye its acrid odor. From what I understand pink slime smells the same way, and that's why it can only be added to ground beef in small amounts. It's unappetizing.

As for the cost savings, everything I've read indicates that the addition of pink slime only shaves pennies off the pound. Now if you give the average consumer a choice between slimed beef that costs $3.50 a pound and the same beef, sans slime, for $3.53, you have to wonder how many people are going to reach for the slimy package because it's a few cents cheaper.

There are some of us who refuse to buy supermarket beef at all. The ground beef I buy costs $7.20 a pound - about twice the supermarket cost. I don't pay pauper's prices, nor do I expect to. But I rest a little more secure in the knowledge that it comes from a farm less than 20 miles away, and that these cattle have spent their entire life there, never having seen a cramped and filthy e.coli-infested CAFO, and never given growth hormones, antibiotics, or anything else I don't want in my meat. Yes, I'm willing to pay more for what I consider to be better quality food, and I don't think I'm alone. 

I also can't help but wonder if these huge agribusiness operations were to suddenly go away, and we put food production in this country back into the hands of small farmers, maybe we wouldn't all be a little healthier and better off.


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## FrankZ (Apr 3, 2012)

For the average consumer I suspect they would pick up the cheaper ground beef without hesitation.  People want their food cheap, especially as the economy continues to stagger.  

McDonalds, on the other hand, has a very large reason for shaving a couple pennies per pound.  When you go through 10's of millions of pounds a meat each year the money adds up.  

Kathleen suggested I look into a local farm for our meat.  She had the "local, sustainable, humane" etc type thinking on it.  They wanted $9.99/lb for pork shoulder.  No.  Not going to happen.  I have no desire to pay for the pigs psychiatrist bills and Egyptian cotton linen.  

I suspect the ammonia treatment is used far more than anyone really understands.  As I understand it it kills the little beasties that make you sick (E Coli and such).  I would think that if a processor happens to have a tenderloin drop into the muck during processing it gets a wash and gas, not tossed out.  

In the end I don't have the time to grow or raise all our food and process it myself, nor do I have a desire to.  I can't afford to only buy the finest of everything either.  We have to make compromises.  I do ask my food not kill me when I eat it, which means it isn't hiding little things in it like E Coli and Salmonella.  If the only way to get to that is gas it then that is what needs doing.  

I do think the real effect of this is people who don't care what is in there.  They will end up paying more.  People who buy whole pieces of meat to make ground beef are only really going to be effected because the overall price of beef will inch up a notch.

I happily ate at McDonalds and Burger before, I will continue to do so.  I will also happily buy chuck roasts when I need ground beef and grind them myself (tis fun afterall).  I am not going to start raising my own cows, nor am I likely to buy a full butchered cow any time soon.


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## taxlady (Apr 3, 2012)

So Frank, do you think that it is right for them not to tell us? That's what the big meat companies want - the right not to tell us what's in/been done to our meat.


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## blissful (Apr 3, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> For the average consumer I suspect they would pick up the cheaper ground beef without hesitation.  People want their food cheap, especially as the economy continues to stagger.
> 
> McDonalds, on the other hand, has a very large reason for shaving a couple pennies per pound.  When you go through 10's of millions of pounds a meat each year the money adds up.
> 
> ...



I just bought half a beef.
At less than 9$ / lb!!! (by a long shot)
http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f48/buying-half-a-cow-52922.html

Occam's razor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The simplest explanation for this new distrust of the available ground beef is this: it's lying.

No disrespect to anyone here.


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## Skittle68 (Apr 3, 2012)

I first learned about "pink slime" several years ago from the documentary "Food Inc" (which is very entertaining and informative, and if you haven't seen it, you should). I was pretty shocked and disgusted, and I'm surprised it didn't cause public outrage sooner.  Seriously, you should go out and get that movie.


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## Barryl.ashworth (Apr 3, 2012)

I would bet that "pink slime" is most commonly added to pre-formed frozen patties. I don't think you could handle slimed burger if it wasn't frozen. It would probably be way too thin.


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## blissful (Apr 3, 2012)

Skittle68 said:


> I first learned about "pink slime" several years ago from the documentary "Food Inc" (which is very entertaining and informative, and if you haven't seen it, you should). I was pretty shocked and disgusted, and I'm surprised it didn't cause public outrage sooner.  Seriously, you should go out and get that movie.



Is this video the same as what you are talking about? 
Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution: Pink Slime - 70% of America's Beef is Treated with Ammonia - YouTube


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## Steve Kroll (Apr 3, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> We have to make compromises. I do ask my food not kill me when I eat it, which means it isn't hiding little things in it like E Coli and Salmonella. If the only way to get to that is gas it then that is what needs doing.


All the more reason to look for small farm meat sources. The prevalence of dangerous e. coli strains is a problem created by the modern beef industry. The presence of harmful e. coli colonies in traditional grass fed animals is very low. Animals raised in feed lots and fed grain diets harbor more than 300 times as many e. coli in their intestines as pastured cattle.

The waste products from these animals also spread the bacteria through ground water run-off or being used as fertilizer. This is the reason you see e. coli, a gut bacteria, show up in spinach and other vegetable sources.

If your food were raised properly, it wouldn't require gassing at all.


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## FrankZ (Apr 3, 2012)

At what point is it too much?  They grind up beef.  Everyone is already suspisious of ground beef to start with.  Are they also supposed to say may contain ____ and list every single muscle that may have gone in?  What if this week there was no chuck added?  

Do they also list things like silicon grease may be found?  Someone breathed around the meat and they may have chewed a minty piece of gum after a smoke.  

In the end I just don't see this as a huge evil conspiracy.  They are selling ground beef.  They aren't using the cows eyeballs.


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## blissful (Apr 3, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> They aren't using the cows eyeballs.



It's beef. Are you sure, when should we start caring?


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## FrankZ (Apr 3, 2012)

blissful said:


> It's beef. Are you sure, when should we start caring?



Eyeballs aren't meat.  They aren't the "less desirable pieces" used in LFTB.


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## taxlady (Apr 3, 2012)

I think I would rather have eyeballs.

E. coli in the food generally means that there is poop in the food. How many of us want "safe poop" in our food.


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## blissful (Apr 3, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> Eyeballs aren't meat.  They aren't the "less desirable pieces" used in LFTB.


*I* believe they are meat, beef meat, ground meat, call it anything you want, it's still 'ground beef'. 
I haven't seen a source that will say 'ground beef' is anything besides ground pieces of beef, including everything you'd use for dog food, cattle food, baloney, and sausage (and haggis). 
If the beef industry can't be honest about the kinds of things they use in ground beef, then, they can't be honest, to make a buck.
And I as a consumer have a right to know what I'm buying.


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## FrankZ (Apr 3, 2012)

In that case never by anything ground.  You just don't know.  Seriously.. how do you KNOW the ground beef you are buying is actually from a cow?  Because the label says so?


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## Skittle68 (Apr 3, 2012)

blissful said:
			
		

> Is this video the same as what you are talking about?
> Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution: Pink Slime - 70% of America's Beef is Treated with Ammonia - YouTube



Nope- food inc is a full length documentary, and ammonia treated beef filler is just one of the many things it mentions. I like it because it doesn't try to scare you or just tell you how evil the corporations are or something, it talks about practical solutions, and shows lots of people who are actually trying to do something about the health and safety of our food industry, and the people who make their living providing it.


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## Skittle68 (Apr 3, 2012)

Just watched the video- no it is not like what they show you in food inc. they actually take you inside a plant where it is made and show you the process, the actual product, and the people who make it and think its a great idea.


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## blissful (Apr 3, 2012)

Skittle--if I ever get the chance to watch the food nation you are talking about, I will, thank you.

FrankZ, I do NOT know what you are trying to say.
Do I expect my ground beef to be a cow or steer of beef, YES.
Do I expect it to be made of meat (not including eyeballs, noses and veins)? YES.

It's just like expecting corn meal to be made of ground corn, in the normal sense of corn kernels and not the stalks from the corn.

It's just like expecting wheat flour to be made of wheat seeds that are ground, not the stalks.

I DO expect the label to say what is in the package and those words to actually mean what they say, within the common knowledge definition. So beef is beef, cow or steer, not a garbage by-product, it may contain fat, common in most beef and fat is ACCEPTABLE by most consumers. Veins, eyeballs, hoof, internal organs, brains, sinuous tissue--none of that is acceptable. That is what I expect. 

I will not start believing that I can't understand the definition of *IS* is. Nor will most people.

(except of course, HAM burger--is not made of HAM, is it?)


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## Greg Who Cooks (Apr 3, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> In that case never by anything ground.  You just don't know.  Seriously.. how do you KNOW the ground beef you are buying is actually from a cow?  Because the label says so?



You don't know, but here in the US the we have the USDA and FDA to inspect our food, and I hope they occasionally do species tests (DNA) to make sure that our beef is really beef and not dog, cat, skunk, squirrel or all the other possibilities...


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## FrankZ (Apr 3, 2012)

blissful said:


> FrankZ, I do NOT know what you are trying to say.
> Do I expect my ground beef to be a cow or steer of beef, YES.
> Do I expect it to be made of meat (not including eyeballs, noses and veins)? YES.



What I am saying is that LFTB is BEEF.  It is made from muscle, which is meat.  It isn't made from eyeballs, veins, noses or veins.  It is taken from meat that is more susceptible during processing to being contaminated and processed.  Part of the processing is decontamination with the ammonia gas.  This means they take parts close to the cows end, where they start the skinning process.  It doesn't mean they use eyeballs. 

Just because they process it doesn't mean the USDA is going to let them slip in the cows eyes.  

Someone called it slime so it is bad.  Had what's his name called it pink  filler it wouldn't seem so bad.  Had he called it pink gold it would be carried in every upscale food boutique.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Apr 3, 2012)

FrankZ said:


> This means they take parts close to the cows end...


Please tell me there are no anal sphincters in pink slime.


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## Caslon (Apr 3, 2012)

I suppose everyone's heard this, but one of the biggest pink slime manufacturers has filed for bankruptcy, due in part to the media attention it garnered. I was surprised at how many tons of the stuff they produced each year (over 700 million pounds every year).

Was it ever established what percentage of pink slime was added to what?


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## Andy M. (Apr 3, 2012)

Caslon said:


> ...Was it ever established what percentage of pink slime was added to what?



The Jaime Oliver video clip said  up to 15% of the product could be PS.


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## Caslon (Apr 3, 2012)

Ammonia is great at removing odors.  The reason it's used to make pink slime is probably more complex than that.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Apr 4, 2012)

Caslon said:


> Ammonia is great at removing odors.  The reason it's used to make pink slime is probably more complex than that.



It is ammonia gas. I understand it is used because it is a bactericide, it kills bacteria.

Up to 15 percent?!? !?! OMG!!! I had thought we were discussing a few, maybe 2-3 percent...

Anybody up for an experiment? Let's buy some pink slime and try to cook it up into a hamburger--a slime burger! Maybe more accurate to call it a "slime booger."

That would be a cool move for some big time blogger or national media reporter: buy some pink slime and try to cook something with it. Remember you heard this idea from me first, here on the forum!


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## buckytom (Apr 4, 2012)

from what i've read, pink slime is not ground up inedible parts of the cow. it's muscle meat just like the larger parts of the cow we consider good to eat, but it requires more processing to extract the smaller bits from skin, bones, joints, and tendons, and is then treated with ammonia (and probably other things) to make sure it's completely safe to eat. maybe not tasty, but safe.
because of all of this processing, it ends up looking like pink slime.

i'm not really interested in eating the stuff, but if i was really hungry and the only thing i had was a 15% pink slime burger, i wouldn't turn it down.

my only concern is that i know that it's being put in a product so i have the choice to eat it or not.

greg, that's a neat experiment, i'd love to try to cook some up by itself just to see how it would turn out.

slime balls and spaghetti, slime loaf, swedish slime balls, slime-isbury steak, slime bourguignon, stir fry slime, etc...


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## Steve Kroll (Apr 4, 2012)

buckytom said:


> my only concern is that i know that it's being put in a product so i have the choice to eat it or not.


I would bet that if they did that, most people wouldn't complain. That's my biggest beef (pun intended) - just the fact that they hid it from people for so long. 

...oh... and the fact that it's AMMONIA. 



> slime balls and spaghetti, slime loaf, swedish slime balls, slime-isbury steak, slime bourguignon, stir fry slime, etc...


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## Steve Kroll (Apr 4, 2012)

So, if the pink slime horse has been beaten to death, here's something else to digest. How many of you are aware that carbon monoxide gas is used to make meat appear fresher than it really is? About 70% of supermarket meat has been treated with poison gas. <ducks for cover>

U.S. MEAT TREATED with CARBON MONOXIDE to make it LOOK FRESH - YouTube


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## buckytom (Apr 4, 2012)

yeah, i'd heard of that. 

wait a minute. carbon monoxide is only poisonous if you try to breathe it.

now steve, i know you like your steaks and burgers but you're not supposed to inhale them no matter how hungry you are...


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## Caslon (Apr 4, 2012)

Is there pink slime in Slim Jims?   Probably. About 100 million pounds I'm guessing.


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## Vanitas (Apr 4, 2012)

Caslon said:
			
		

> Is there pink slime in Slim Jims?   Probably. About 100 million pounds I'm guessing.


 I'm not so sure there's any actual meat in those things. But they're SO good. I still eat 'em, mostly on road trips.


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## blissful (Apr 4, 2012)

My mouth is watering, slim jims. No sarcasm, love them, and I bet they are 70% c*ap and 29% meat and 1% spices, herbs and additives. So bad for you and yet SO good.

I see three major issues here.

1. Chemicals used in processing--ammonia and now carbon monoxide (some people are taking this as an issue and it is an issue)

2. Marketing, call it PS Pink Slime, or filler or whatever (FrankZ, I see you taking issue with it, and it is an issue)

3. Honesty, getting what I paid for.  When I get meat, I want meat. This is the part that I take issue.

I think we all have good points. There are good ideas here too--too many to mention, dna testing, slime burgers.... 

Let's all go out for burgers, eat some jello made from horses hooves, strip out my kitchen floor with ammonia so I can rewax it. 
I'm not trying to make a point. I'm just hungry for a slim jim.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Apr 4, 2012)

buckytom said:


> from what i've read, pink slime is not ground up inedible parts of the cow. it's muscle meat just like the larger parts of the cow we consider good to eat, but it requires more processing to extract the smaller bits from skin, bones, joints, and tendons, and is then treated with ammonia (and probably other things) to make sure it's completely safe to eat. maybe not tasty, but safe.
> because of all of this processing, it ends up looking like pink slime.
> 
> i'm not really interested in eating the stuff, but if i was really hungry and the only thing i had was a 15% pink slime burger, i wouldn't turn it down.
> ...



Thank you for the reply. It would be interesting if there were some venue where we the public could purchase pink slime, and do our own analysis, experiments, and maybe concoct recipes from it, for experimental basis or for real.

I think one of the PR problems here is that they're trying to hide "pink slime" from the public and pretend it doesn't exist. They want it to be some deep, dark, "industry only" secret.

Um, guys, your "industry only" secret didn't work.


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