# Fish Sauce



## Ducky Cary (Jan 19, 2006)

I have just bought my first Wok and a new recipe book to go with it. I'm very excited.
I noticed that a lot of the recipes need this fish sauce. I wasn't sure what fish sauce was so I looked up it and I don't think it's something I will like, I'm not really a fish person in the first place. I don't think I will be able to handle the smell.
Is there something that I can substitute for it?
Can I go without?
 


Thanks


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## GB (Jan 19, 2006)

Give fish sauce a try. You have probably eat it thousands of times without even realizing it. Yes the ingredient list will make you not want to try it and don't smell it right out of the bottle because it is potent stuff, but its flavor is an important one in Chinese cuisine. When it is used in cooking then you will not notice the strong flavor/smell, but if you omit it then you will notice something is missing. Give it a try just once. I am sure you will be surprised.


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## Andy M. (Jan 19, 2006)

GB is correct.  The fish sauce adds to the dish but you won't be able to taste it as a distinct flavor in the finished product.  Trust me, this is an important ingredient.


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## valnaples (Jan 19, 2006)

Yes, do buy some but be careful that it does not have a bunch of weird ingredients; read the label before purchasing.  I try to think of it like anchovies...I know I don't like them but they do add tremendous and distinctive flavor to many sauces.


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## jennyema (Jan 19, 2006)

Fish sauce is key to basically any Thai or Vietnamese dish.  If you've eaten in a Thai restaurant you have eaten fish sauce and probably liked it.

You can buy it in any asian market and in most big supermarkets.  Fish sauce doesn't have any weird ingredients -- just fermented fish (usually anchovies) salt and sugar.

It comes in a big bottle -- don't let that scare you.  It'll keep forever.

3 Crabs, Squid and Golden Boy are good brands.  See HERE


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## Ducky Cary (Jan 19, 2006)

*Thanks*

OK I'm in. I'm going to give it a try tonight. Thank you all for the input. I'll let you know how it goes.

Cary


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## Ducky Cary (Jan 22, 2006)

*Not Bad*

I tried the fish sauce a couple ways.
I used it in my first Wok experience and I used it with some hot sauce for dipping roll into.

I was really worried of what the taste and smell was going to be like and it was fine, nothing like I had though it might be.

I’m glad I asked about fish sauce before crossing it off my shoppin list. I will use it again.


Now I need to learn how to use a Wok. It was fun (and messy) but I think this will take a lot practice.


Thanks for all the encouragement and good advice

Cary


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## GB (Jan 22, 2006)

Way to go Cary! It is so great that you had an open mind. I am so happy it worked out well for you


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## auntdot (Jan 22, 2006)

I kinda put fish sauce in the same category as Worcestershireshireshire sauce.

Once you find out how it is made, it seems kinda oogy.

But it really adds something to dishes.

Glad you enjoyed it.


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## kitchenelf (Feb 1, 2006)

"oogy" - what a great word!!

If you ever decide to make fresh Vietnamese Spring/Summer rolls you can mix soy sauce with fish sauce (roughly equal parts), add a little fresh lime, and fresh chopped cilantro.

I'm glad you gave it a try.  It's kind of like cumin - that's not the best smelling stuff but I can't get enough of it in certain dishes.


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## derailedbus (Jan 2, 2012)

I'd like to know some other recipes that it can be used in.  I'm fairly new to food experimentation, and really new to cooking, but I've jumped in without a life-jacket.  I was recently at an Asian supermarket (a genuine one, where everyone was staring at me like I was an Ogre).  Maybe I kinda was resembling one; I was the only Caucasion there,  I'm 6'1", 220#, with a long, red beard and was stumbling about the produce section like I had found El Dorado.  Anyways, I loaded up on everything I'd read about but never used and fish sauce was something I'd grabbed.  There were literally 20+ different brands of it there, so I got a small bottle.  Took a swig straight from the bottle, and after the initial shock, I absolutely gotta find a recipe to use it in!


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## Zereh (Jan 3, 2012)

I have had huge success with the fried rice recipes on Steamy Kitchen ~ and fish sauce is a definite requirement in them.


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## buckytom (Jan 3, 2012)

i like to make a side dish/topping for london broil using fish sauce.

while the steak is broiling, fry some garlic, add ginger, soy sauce, a little stock, and fish sauce, then i add some baby bok choy to the mixture and cook for a minute or three until it just begins to soften but is still al dente.

set london broil aside to rest.

plate the baby bok choy around an oval platter, and reduce the remaining liquid addinh a bit of a corn starch slurry to thicken.

slice the london broil and fan out insde the bok choy ring, add any juices from slicing to the reduced sauce, then pour over top of the meat.


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## Timothy (Jan 3, 2012)

derailedbus said:


> I'd like to know some other recipes that it can be used in. I'm fairly new to food experimentation, and really new to cooking, but I've jumped in without a life-jacket. I was recently at an Asian supermarket (a genuine one, where everyone was staring at me like I was an Ogre). Maybe I kinda was resembling one; I was the only Caucasion there, I'm 6'1", 220#, with a long, red beard and was stumbling about the produce section like I had found El Dorado. Anyways, I loaded up on everything I'd read about but never used and fish sauce was something I'd grabbed. There were literally 20+ different brands of it there, so I got a small bottle. Took a swig straight from the bottle, and after the initial shock, I absolutely gotta find a recipe to use it in!


 
Man oh man, you took a swig of fish sauce right from the bottle and enjoyed it? <Gag> <Cough> <Retch>, Dude! You're kidding, right? I've used the stuff for cooking for years, but I would NEVER drink it right from the bottle! Yuck! 

That's some seriously strong flavored stuff!


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## GLC (Jan 3, 2012)

If you appreciate fish sauce, you joint an ancient fan club of what's been made all over the world in essentially the same way. Goes at least back to the ancient Mediterranean where the Romans called it garum or liquamen (they were the same, only different - no one knows just how). And it was absolutely essential to their cuisine. 

I like Squid brand. (There's no squid in it.) And about four times a year, I trek over to the giant Asian grocery that serves ALL Asian cultures and stock up on the otherwise hard to find.


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## jennyema (Jan 3, 2012)

Timothy said:


> Man oh man, you took a swig of fish sauce right from the bottle and enjoyed it? <Gag> <Cough> <Retch>, Dude! You're kidding, right? I've used the stuff for cooking for years, but I would NEVER drink it right from the bottle! Yuck!
> 
> That's some seriously strong flavored stuff!


 

I do it all the time.  Yesterday, in fact.

I have done personal taste tests of different brands by sipping them.


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## Timothy (Jan 3, 2012)

jennyema said:


> I do it all the time. Yesterday, in fact.
> 
> I have done personal taste tests of different brands by sipping them.


 
Wow, the closest I've came to doing that is just sniffing the bottle! That convinced me to NOT try a sip.

Love it in lots of things I cook though. I generally put in about twice what the recipe calls for.


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## Dawgluver (Jan 3, 2012)

Timothy said:
			
		

> Wow, the closest I've came to doing that is just sniffing the bottle! That convinced me to NOT try a sip.
> 
> Love it in lots of things I cook though. I generally put in about twice what the recipe calls for.



My reaction is just like yours, Timothy, though I do like it as an ingredient.  Just not as a beverage.


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## Timothy (Jan 3, 2012)

Dawgluver said:


> My reaction is just like yours, Timothy, though I do like it as an ingredient. Just not as a beverage.


 
Kinda like Mustard. I love mustard and horseradish, but wouldn't try spoonfuls of either, right from the bottle. Maybe a tad on the tip of a finger...I would do that with fish sauce if there was a reason to, but I buy "Phu' quoc' fish sauce, so no taste testing is necessary.


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## jennyema (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm talking tasting like a teaspoon of it at a time.

Not sure how you can use an ingredient if you don't taste it on its own.


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## Andy M. (Jan 3, 2012)

I agree with Jen.  The first time I bought fish sauce, the first thing I did was taste it.  I needed to know how it would impact the recipe I was making.  The taste is not unpleasant.  Just keep in mind it's an ingredient similar in effect to soy sauce.


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## Timothy (Jan 3, 2012)

jennyema said:


> I'm talking tasting like a teaspoon of it at a time.
> 
> Not sure how you can use an ingredient if you don't taste it on its own.


 
The way I was taught by the Chef I worked for was to make a dish without one ingredient and then taste it with the ingredient and without, without being tried first.

That way you can experience the actual difference that one ingredient makes in that specific dish.


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## Andy M. (Jan 3, 2012)

Timothy said:


> The way I was taught by the Chef I worked for was to make a dish without one ingredient and then taste it with the ingredient and without, without being tried first.
> 
> That way you can experience the actual difference that one ingredient makes in that specific dish.



Sounds like a pretty good method.


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## no mayonnaise (Jan 3, 2012)

jennyema said:


> I'm talking tasting like a teaspoon of it at a time.
> 
> Not sure how you can use an ingredient if you don't taste it on its own.



Well, cooked fish sauce tastes entirely different than it does from the bottle, and fish sauce used at the table is usually diluted with water, along with lime juice, sugar, and sometimes chilies (Nuoc Cham)
It's kinda the equivalent of tasting raw chicken so you know how to use it as an ingredient.


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## Timothy (Jan 3, 2012)

Andy M. said:


> Sounds like a pretty good method.


 
It taught me a lot. Henri had a big ole wooden spoon in his apron pocket that he would whack me on the head with if I couldn't tell him what ingredient was missing! I got whacked plenty, but I learned a lot about seasoning that way.


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## jennyema (Jan 3, 2012)

Timothy said:


> The way I was taught by the Chef I worked for was to make a dish without one ingredient and then taste it with the ingredient and without, without being tried first.
> 
> That way you can experience the actual difference that one ingredient makes in that specific dish.


 


We did that in culinary school but only after tasting the ingredient by itself first.


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## Timothy (Jan 3, 2012)

jennyema said:


> We did that in culinary school but only after tasting the ingredient by itself first.


Henri showed me how the absence of only one small amount of one seasoning can make a real difference in flavor of the final outcome. Sometimes, the dish would be very good without it, but with it, it had a subtle flavor waaaay in the background that showed itself after swallowing, in the nose on an exhale. The one that was always the most surprising to me was lemon juice added in drops. Try a bite of grilled salmon some time and then add just a drop of lemon juice to the meat and wipe it around the entire piece. You wouldn't think one drop of lemon juice could make much difference, but it really, really does. A back-of-the-tongue citrus aftertaste that really helps the flavor of the salmon come out.

The same thing with bean dishes and lemon juice. Quite a difference!


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## jennyema (Jan 3, 2012)

Timothy said:


> Henri showed me how the absence of only one small amount of one seasoning can make a real difference in flavor of the final outcome. Sometimes, the dish would be very good without it, but with it, it had a subtle flavor waaaay in the background that showed itself after swallowing, in the nose on an exhale. The one that was always the most surprising to me was lemon juice added in drops. Try a bite of grilled salmon some time and then add just a drop of lemon juice to the meat and wipe it around the entire piece. You wouldn't think one drop of lemon juice could make much difference, but it really, really does. A back-of-the-tongue citrus aftertaste that really helps the flavor of the salmon come out.
> 
> The same thing with bean dishes and lemon juice. Quite a difference!


 

I agree totally that lemon juice is outstanding and IMO underappreciated!


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## Dawgluver (Jan 3, 2012)

jennyema said:
			
		

> I agree totally that lemon juice is outstanding and IMO underappreciated!



When I asked a friend if  she wanted me to mule something down with us on our recent trip to Mexico, she requested Realemon juice!  The stuff in the bottle!  Apparently, while limes are all over in Mexico, lemons are almost unheard of.  I've always used them interchangeably, though the flavors are different.

Same friend requested fish fertilizer to be brought down awhile ago.  As they live on the ocean, with fresh fish in abundance, I had to give her a hard time, and recommended the old Indian trick of burying a dead fish at the base of her plants.

Hmmm.  Maybe shoulda brought her some fish sauce.  Would have served dual purposes.


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## buckytom (Jan 3, 2012)

dawg, i hope you meant to smuggle the lemon juice in your luggage.

to mule something means to carry something in a body cavity, swallowed or inserted.


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## Dawgluver (Jan 3, 2012)

buckytom said:
			
		

> dawg, i hope you meant to smuggle the lemon juice in your luggage.
> 
> to mule something means to carry something in a body cavity, swallowed or inserted.



 

Actually, we do call it "muling" as in using a mule/donkey to carry your stuff, no cavities involved.  Smuggling would prompt a "search".  

2 16 oz. bottles of Realemon would be, um, uncomfortable.  Especially on a long flight!


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jan 3, 2012)

jennyema said:


> I agree totally that lemon juice is outstanding and IMO underappreciated!



Or lime juice. Lime juice is one of my "secret" ingredients. Sometimes a squeeze of lime over the top of a dish can really make the dish come alive!

When I first encountered fish sauce (_nam pla_) it sounded sort of weird to me but I knew I wasn't going to be doing any serious Thai cooking without it, so I began using it. Later on I eventually built up to actually tasting it, and I discovered that it was much milder than I had ever imagined, the smell wasn't as strong as I had previously imagined, and I realized that it was quite salty. It sometimes seems to me that fish sauce to some degree is Thai salt, or serves the function in many recipes. (And adds to the flavor complexity too of course.)

These days I don't even measure the stuff (or at least not unless I'm trying to create a written recipe so I can post it on the Internet). I usually just pour it into my pan ingredients, stir things a bit and taste, then add some more if I think it needs it.

Also noting, there are wide variations between brands and there are different kinds of fish sauce, and fish sauce varies depending on origin (e.g. Thai fish sauce, Vietnamese fish sauce, etc.). Somebody who thinks their fish sauce is too strong should find a different brand. I recommend the kind that looks like dark tea with little or no sediments. (My favorite is Cock brand from Thailand, a mild fish sauce IMO.)

Get _mam nem_ sauce if you want something with a real kick to it!


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## apple916 (Jan 13, 2012)

Since no one has mentioned a brand yet and if you're like that one starring at all the choices I highly recommend the one with 3  crabs. It's at most places that sells fish sauce and I think I've seen  it at albertsons or Ralphs in Asian isle. If you can't find that, the Squid brand is almost as good.


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## GLC (Jan 13, 2012)

Called, strangely enough, Three Crabs Brand.


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## apple916 (Jan 14, 2012)

Nice job, that's the Hennessy of fish sauce.


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## powerplantop (Jan 14, 2012)

apple916 said:


> Nice job, that's the Hennessy of fish sauce.



Since I bought some red boat Red Boat Fish Sauce First Press Extra Virgin my wife will only allow in the house. I have to mail order it and it is expensive but is worth it.


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## jennyema (Jan 14, 2012)

Fish sauce isthe new olive oil.

All of a sudden there are more and more interesting brands on the market.


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## Bigjim68 (Jan 14, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> Or lime juice. Lime juice is one of my "secret" ingredients. Sometimes a squeeze of lime over the top of a dish can really make the dish come alive!
> 
> When I first encountered fish sauce (_nam pla_) it sounded sort of weird to me but I knew I wasn't going to be doing any serious Thai cooking without it, so I began using it. Later on I eventually built up to actually tasting it, and I discovered that it was much milder than I had ever imagined, the smell wasn't as strong as I had previously imagined, and I realized that it was quite salty. It sometimes seems to me that fish sauce to some degree is Thai salt, or serves the function in many recipes. (And adds to the flavor complexity too of course.)
> 
> ...


I think that a lot of the citrus flavors used in Cambodian, Thai, Vietnamese, and other Siamese countries comes from Kaffir Lime and Lemongrass rather than from the fruit itself.  Neither is easy to come by in my area as spices, but both do well as deck and house plants.  Kaffir lime grows around 6 ft high as a pot plant, and has long, very sharp, spikes.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jan 14, 2012)

All I can say is that I've frequently seen Thai recipes that include lime juice as an ingredient, or finished off with lime juice. (Both in my Thai cookbooks and on TV cooking shows.)

I don't see how anybody can make a real Thai curry without Kaffir lime leaves. I'm fortunate in L.A. that I can find Kaffir lime leaves in my favorite Asian market (but not every time). Kaffir lime leaves don't taste much like ordinary limes to me. I find the taste indescribable, and so obviously I won't try to describe.

I've often thought it would be a good idea to get a Kaffir lime bush, to have a dependable source of the leaves. As I said, IMO you can't make a good Thai curry without, or at least I can't.

Lemongrass doesn't taste like ordinary limes to me either, not even slightly. Again, indescribable, so I won't even try.



BTW I use Cock brand fish sauce (picture of rooster next to brand name). I have so many brands to choose from (at least a couple dozen, probably more) that I happened to pick Cock brand because I was already using their brand jasmine rice. It worked fine for me so I just stuck with it (both the fish sauce and the jasmine rice). Like they say, "don't fix what ain't broke!"


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## jennyema (Jan 15, 2012)

Bigjim68 said:


> I think that a lot of the citrus flavors used in Cambodian, Thai, Vietnamese, and other Siamese countries comes from Kaffir Lime and Lemongrass rather than from the fruit itself.  Neither is easy to come by in my area as spices, but both do well as deck and house plants.  Kaffir lime grows around 6 ft high as a pot plant, and has long, very sharp, spikes.



Lemongrass and kaffir lime leaves don't taste much like lemon or lime.

Lime juice us a very common ingredient in Thai and Vietnamese cooking.

I envy your lime tree!  I grow lemongrass in my garden but have had to resort to buying lime leaves at Mario Batalis Eataly.  They are gorgeous and perfect though and, for some reason, very cheap.


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## buckytom (Jan 15, 2012)

Bigjim68 said:


> .  Kaffir lime grows around 6 ft high as a pot plant,



cool!  i grew "kaffir lime" once,  too!  

,


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jan 15, 2012)

buckytom said:


> cool!  i grew "kaffir lime" once,  too!
> 
> ,



  I just saw that, since you pointed it out!  I'm sure he meant "potted" plant!


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## buckytom (Jan 15, 2012)

oh, you're probably right.

damn, i was just looking to see if big jim posted a recipe for corned beef "hash"...


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jan 15, 2012)

I'm getting confused. Is this the "What are you smoking?" topic?


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jan 15, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> I'm getting confused. Is this the "What are you smoking?" topic?



ROFL!!!


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## buckytom (Jan 15, 2012)

lol!!!

i wonder if fish sauce goes with pizza and m&m's. (getting back on topic)


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jan 15, 2012)

How about with Thai BBQ chicken pizza? Some may think I'm joking but IIRC that's one of the menu varieties at California Pizza Kitchen, and one of my favorites although I haven't been to CPK in years. I tried to look it up online but they've got one of those websites that are impossible to use from a low bandwidth Internet connection. I think they sell the same thing frozen in supermarkets.

Actually fish sauce (_nam pla_) is a good thing to use in Thai sauces. I'd start out a peanut dipping sauce with peanut butter, coconut milk, fish sauce, some form of chili... (I've got to quit this. I'm starting to get a craving!) And completing my thought, you'd need some sauce and some BBQ chicken to make that pizza I was discussing, and some onions...

I don't think you'd want fish sauce anywhere near your M&Ms. Or at least I wouldn't. YMMV


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## Andy M. (Jan 15, 2012)

buckytom said:


> lol!!!
> 
> i wonder if fish sauce goes with pizza and m&m's. (getting back on topic)



Pizza - yes

M&Ms - no

Unless the M&Ms are smoked.


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## Bigjim68 (Jan 15, 2012)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> I just saw that, since you pointed it out!  I'm sure he meant "potted" plant!


Thanks, Princess, my mind works at 100 wpm, but my typing is only 50.  My lime is potted, in a pot.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jan 15, 2012)

Bigjim68 said:


> Thanks, Princess, my mind works at 100 wpm, but my typing is only 50.  My lime is potted, in a pot.



Doesn't that frighten you just a little that I knew what you were thinking?


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## taxlady (Jan 15, 2012)

We need a "smiley" for this acronym: lolstc (laughing out loud scaring the cats).

I can almost breathe again. I have tears running down my cheeks. DH is wondering what sort of people I hang out with on the intertubes.


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## jennyema (Jan 15, 2012)

Hahahahahaha!!


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## Ehoort (Jan 19, 2012)

Fish sauce should be refrigerated after opening. It will last longer that way.


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## powerplantop (Jan 19, 2012)

Ehoort said:


> Fish sauce should be refrigerated after opening. It will last longer that way.



I have never put good stuff in the fridge. But it does not last that long in my house.


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## apple916 (Feb 3, 2012)

Ehoort said:


> Fish sauce should be refrigerated after opening. It will last longer that way.


Oh no please don't do that. Fish sauce is almost like balsamic vinegar so it last a long time in a dry cool place. This is the one time I can't imagine how cold pressed something will taste, not good at all. That's like putting olive oil in the fridge. Fish sauce is really cheap so even if you don't use it in 6 mos, throw it out if it gets to be like deep dark cola and lose it's light red transparent viscosity. The freshness is mostly gone. That's how I've handled that issue.


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## HistoricFoodie (Feb 3, 2012)

I'm with Jenny on this.

No, I don't swig it from the bottle. But I do tip the bottle onto my finger, and lick it off. 

There are different fish sauces, varying by depth of flavor, color, saltiness, etc. Has to do with the proportions of the ingredients used, how long the fermentation took place, and, I'm sure, other factors.

It's sort of like the differences between various soy sauces. 

Generally I'm a fan of Three Crabs brand, which is the classic Nuoc Mam of Viet Nam. Recently I bought some Thai fish sauce for a recipe, and they're very different. So much so that if I put some of each in a shot glass, you'd think they were different products just by looking at them. 

BTW, fish sauce, like anchovies, is used more as a salt element than a fishy one. It's one of those ingredients that you can't quite identify in a dish, but notice if it's missing.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 3, 2012)

_Nuoc mam_ (Vietnam) has more solids than _nam pla_ (Thailand). Not saying you can't get either one from either country. I buy both from Thailand mainly because my cooking interests lie with Thai cooking.

I completely agree with you about tasting your ingredients. Even though it seemed unpalatable, I tried my _nam pla_ in a spoon, and found it wasn't that fishy at all, more salty than anything else, but with an extra dimension.


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## buckytom (Feb 4, 2012)

Bizarre Foods - Vietnam 5/6 - YouTube

i remembered this episode of bizarre food, a.k.a. fat guy eats bad food.


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