# Cooking snobbery



## seans_potato_business (May 11, 2008)

I was wondering if anyone had noticed and disliked what they might consider pretentious or "snobbery" in the field of cooking. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 What things irritate you the most?


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## Wart (May 11, 2008)

seans_potato_business said:


> I was wondering if anyone had noticed and disliked what they might consider pretentious or "snobbery" in the field of cooking.




Never!





> What things irritate you the most?



I won't get started.


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## Constance (May 11, 2008)

I do feel that some people tend look down on us country cooks a little bit, but I've never fed a one of'em that didn't clean his plate and come back for more.


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## babetoo (May 11, 2008)

some cooks look down their noses at ones that don't make every little thing by scratch.

some cooks however just tell u how they do and u can take it or leave.

i certainly don't know everything about cooking by a long shot. i like getting advice if it is presented well. 

yes there definatly food snobs. 


babe


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## Adillo303 (May 11, 2008)

Constance said:


> I do feel that some people tend look down on us country cooks a little bit, but I've never fed a one of'em that didn't clean his plate and come back for more.


 

Amen to that.


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## Russellkhan (May 11, 2008)

I haven't witnessed it here (and hope never to) but back when I was a regular on the Craigslist Food Forum, there was a certain reverse-snobbery that was annoying and prevalent there. Someone would make a post describing a wonderful meal that they obviously put a lot of effort into and someone (consistently this would be someone posting from an anonymous login) would post deriding the OP for their obvious snobbery for making some or other thing from scratch or for the use of some ingredient that might not normally be used in a home kitchen.


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## LPBeier (May 11, 2008)

I have experienced it the opposite way. When I finished my culinary course one of my friends said "so, I guess none of us can invite YOU to dinner anymore because we won't measure up to your standards" and wasn't joking. I was totally shocked. Funny thing, two years later and she is constantly emailing or calling me for advice, but, true to her word, I have never been invited for dinner since. Go figure.


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## jpmcgrew (May 11, 2008)

I am just not crazy about food snobs that do no not actually cook or the ones that do cook but think they are gods gift to the culinary world and think you could not possibly have a method, idea or recipe that is better than theirs. You will never be a better or great a cook/chef with an attitude. I believe no one lives in this world long enough to understand or master all aspects of cooking in the entire world and different cultures. I think if you want to be a great cook/chef you better appreciate the down home cook and the master chef. There is so much to learn about food and cooking in this world no one lives long enough to learn it all. I also believe arrogance has no place in a kitchen do what you do because you love to cook.


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## LPBeier (May 11, 2008)

Touche JP!!!!  When I am at home, I am a down home cook.  When I am working I step it up a notch (depending on the job).  Contrary to my friend's attitude, I love going to my friends and having their homestyle cooking and appreciate it very much.  Often it is better than I could ever do.  I don't consider myself a great cook/chef, I consider myself an educated foodie!


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## kitchenelf (May 11, 2008)

I find that the "snob" doesn't know near what they think they do.

When I cooked professionally someone said "I bet you are so picky when you go out to eat" - what I was was so thankful I didn't have to cook it myself!!!!!!

What irritates me is going into a nice restaurant and they don't make the salad dressings themselves, or they don't make some simple sauces themselves...or they buy their potato salad and nothing but the preservatives flavor it.  I just find it a huge waste of money (and fairly lazy) and not near as good as what can be made in-house.  That may be snobbish I guess - I just find it puzzling.

Constance - I couldn't agree more!


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## Dave Hutchins (May 12, 2008)

I have had the same responce to you are a chef and I do not want to cook for you 
many times.. and by and large I have not been invited to any of there partys.  As for food snobbery I am like some one else's post I have fed food snobs plain simple food and they have come back for more. out side of the midwest I would not be considered a chef 
but that is where I made my bucks and was quite happy to do it


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## buckytom (May 12, 2008)

cooking snobs never last very long here. i can think of 3 or 4 right off the bat that define the expression "some people bring joy when they arrive; others when they leave". 

i'm waiting for the oenophiles to get started with this one, though. oenophilology  is often misunderstood and abused by snobs.

i remember that i used to think that people who went through the pomp and circumstance of examining the bottle and tasting a wine before it was served at their table were probably snobs. but on a trip to california a few years ago, a waiter explained that there _are_ bottles that have gone bad, so tasting the wine is more about quality assurance than it is about snobbery, in many cases.

the worst wine snob that i've ever met in my life, unfortunately, is a co-worker and my arch nemesis. (holy grapes, batman!)

since i cater our annual holiday party and an occasional retirement party when requested, i often ask the guys what they want to drink when i've made up the menu. for years, this doofus only had one request (not that i asked him): that there's at least two 1.5 litre bottles of gallo white zinfandel, no matter what food was being served.
now, i have no problem with white zin or gallo wines. they're cheap and they go down like water, so they have their place in the world. they're perfect for a day out skiing or winter hiking. beer freezes and doesn't do well in a goat skin, and it's a little rough to be drinking vodka at 10am after the first coupla runs...

skip ahead a few years, and several divorces later for this quasimodo, and he begins to date a woman who happens to own a high end wine shop. no gallo to be found.

so last christmas, when i was checking if anyone had any special requests, he chimed in with "you can't afford the wine i drink."



i told him where to insert his expensive wines. 

sideways.


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## LPBeier (May 12, 2008)

Good for you, BuckyT!!


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## Nancy Jane (May 12, 2008)

I don't care about food snobs.  I just cook and no one complains.  Dat's good enough for me.  Da proof is in da puddin'.


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## Michael in FtW (May 12, 2008)

LOL - anyone watch the movie, *Ratatouille*?

I find that most of the "snobs" couldn't cook a package of instant "cream of wheat" - they just eat and complain ... they have no talent, no skills, no incentive to mess up their pretty uber-bucks kitchen.


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## seans_potato_business (May 12, 2008)

Does no-one care when a recipe asks for a cucumber to be peeled and have its seeds removed? Since most people don't get their fibre requirement, I'd advise against peeling anything that isn't necessary. To be honest, I'd even go so far as to say that sifting flour in this day and age is pretentious and a waste of time. I challenge anyone to tell the difference between two cakes, made exactly the same in every way, except for sifting of flour which should make no difference if it's been properly stored.


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## Michael in FtW (May 12, 2008)

seans_potato_business said:


> Does no-one care when a recipe asks for a cucumber to be peeled and have its seeds removed? Since most people don't get their fibre requirement, I'd advise against peeling anything that isn't necessary. To be honest, I'd even go so far as to say that sifting flour in this day and age is pretentious and a waste of time. I challenge anyone to tell the difference between two cakes, made exactly the same in every way, except for sifting of flour which should make no difference if it's been properly stored.


 
Yep - peeling and seeding has it's place. If you don't want to - nobody is going to hold a gun to your head and make you. Well, maybe the "Food Police" might rap you on the knuckles with a big stick ... 

Sifting flour does have it's purposes - even in these modern times - flour still compacts when put in a bag. But, this is not the forum to once again try to explain the compaction and aeration of flour and how it impacts baked goods. Unfortunately - how a bag of flour is stored has nothing to do with anything when it comes to making a cake - THAT is why you sift the flour.


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## luvs (May 12, 2008)

i'm agitated by snobbery. i eat food from foie gras & caviar to wings & meatloaf. i love food for its versatility. people, after learning i've gone to culinary school, try to impress. sigh.


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## Andy M. (May 12, 2008)

seans_potato_business said:


> Does no-one care when a recipe asks for a cucumber to be peeled and have its seeds removed? Since most people don't get their fiber requirement, I'd advise against peeling anything that isn't necessary. To be honest, I'd even go so far as to say that sifting flour in this day and age is pretentious and a waste of time. I challenge anyone to tell the difference between two cakes, made exactly the same in every way, except for sifting of flour which should make no difference if it's been properly stored.


 

These are not examples of food snobbery.  There are reasons for these instructions.

Cucumber peels have a bitter flavor component that can impact the taste of a dish.  Seeding the cuke eliminates a significant amount of moisture from the recipe.  

Sifting flour can make a significant impact on a recipe.  When you sift flour, you aerate it or 'fluff' it up, separating the grains.  As a result, a cup of just sifted flour will contain significantly less flour than a cup of unsifted flour.


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## Nancy Jane (May 12, 2008)

Well, maybe we are all truly Chefs.  Anybody think of that?  If in one moment we bring culinary pleasure and beauty to another (food joy), doesn't that truly define our status?  I believe it does.  I've experienced this and it is very satisfying.


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## mozart (May 12, 2008)

Andy M. said:


> When you sift flour, you aerate it or 'fluff' it up, separating the grains. As a result, a cup of just sifted flour will contain significantly less flour than a cup of unsifted flour.


 
Or "a cup of flour, sifted".


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## jpmcgrew (May 12, 2008)

I also have had people who did not want to cook for me because I'm a chef. Are you kidding me? I love when someone else cooks for me. When I first moved to the ranch the women there were worried their cooking might not be up to my standards they happen to be great cooks by the way. I just tell them that they even if they only made me scrambled eggs they would be the best eggs I ever had. Why? Plain and simple they taste better because I didn't have to cook them. There is something about not enjoying my own food all the time because I have already tasted and smelled the dish that by the time it comes to eat I'm already tired of it. When I cook at dinner home I rarely eat it when it's ready, after nibbling and tasting and smelling I get full feeling even if though I could eat more I just can't get into it any more.


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## LPBeier (May 12, 2008)

One of Canada's "celebrity chef's" Michael Smith said one time that being a chef isn't about the schooling or the red seal, it is about a heart for food and people.


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## Jeekinz (May 12, 2008)

I don't really understand the 'snobbery' part at home.  But bad knife skills drive me bonkers.  A friend of mine was dicing an onion by first, slicing half moons, then seperating the rings, then cutting each dice individually.  I actually had to sit on my hands so I wouldn't get involved.

I'm a total snob eating out.  I can taste canned or prepared food a mile away. Hate it.  I don't use them home, and I don't expect to pay good money to be served that junk going out to eat.   We might eat out once in 2 months.   What used to be good tastes like garbage now.  The only time I'm not dissapointed is going to a certain local 'family style' restaurant.  They have a bazillion things on the menu, but I always order the same thing:  L.I. Iced Tea, Nachos Grande, Reuben, and a couple Heinekens or Becks.


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## mozart (May 12, 2008)

Jeekinz said:


> I'm a total snob eating out. I can taste canned or prepared food a mile away. Hate it.


 
I don't think expecting a nice restaurant to prepare fresh , tasty food without using cheap canned and prepared ingredients, makes you a snob.

It makes them a lousy restaurant, and it makes you an ex-customer

As for knife skills, I'd rather have people take their time than have "finger" food


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## jabbur (May 12, 2008)

I think the idea of food snobs has been amplified by the Top Chef programs.  The contestants always seem to have trouble with the challenges involving "everyday" stuff like when they had to make something from vending machine food or go through the neighborhood and raid average people's pantries for ingredients.  You always hear them gripe about only using "the best" ingredients to be successful.


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## Mama (May 12, 2008)

Jeekinz said:


> I'm a total snob eating out. I can taste canned or prepared food a mile away. Hate it.


 
Jeekinz, Just because you expect to get what you pay for does not make you a snob!

If you want my opinion, anyone who looks down their nose at someone else (whether you call them a snob, or #*!%#.) has  issues with their own security, or should I say insecurities.  I find that these kinds of people need to cut down other people in order to feel better about themselves.  I don't think that it has anything to do with cooking.


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## Adillo303 (May 12, 2008)

I have a really good friend who is a great cook, none of us are chefs. She once said that she cooks differently depending on who is comming for dinner. She tailors her spices and to some extent the menu, to the tastes of her guests. I really like this idea. If I cm cooking for myself, it is one thing, I cook what I like, If I have company, I cook fro them.

She wrote up all her favorite recipies, printed several copies, bound them and titled it "Cooking with love". Most folks here can make a great meal. Some are teaching me presentation, which I so dearly want to learn. Is that not what it is all about? 

If someone says they can cook better than I can, so be it. 

AC


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## Uncle Bob (May 12, 2008)

Mama said:
			
		

> If you want my opinion, anyone who looks down their nose at someone else (whether you call them a snob, or #*!%#.) has issues with their own security, or should I say insecurities. I find that these kinds of people need to cut down other people in order to feel better about themselves. I don't think that it has anything to do with cooking.


 
I agree....
 Also....So often it is not what one says, rather it is what one does not say. Sometimes the silence can be deafening! It speaks volumes to ones true character......


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## Jeekinz (May 12, 2008)

Mama said:


> Jeekinz, Just because you expect to get what you pay for does not make you a snob!


 
I guess I just think bad food is acceptable amongst the masses. So when I critique so called 'good food' amongst 'non chefs' I feel a tad snobbish. Making any sense?


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## MexicoKaren (May 12, 2008)

I am not a chef, never have worked in the food prep industry except when I was going to college, and I was actually a darned good waitress. And I enjoyed it. Often made me wonder why I ever went to college (but that's another story....)

I am a good cook, and my friends know that and they enjoy coming to our home for a meal. I was raised to believe that hospitality is very important, and that it is a privilege to entertain your friends in your home. I don't use cake mixes or Cool Whip or Cream of Mushroom soup. I bake my own bread and I even make my own tortillas. But I don't look down on people who do it differently. I have the luxury of time in my life, but when I was a single mother working 60-70 hours a week, you can bet that when I got home to feed my kids, I'd pop open a can of mushroom soup to make a tuna casserole. No time to make a bechamel sauce. If using brownie mix meant the difference between treats or no treats, that's what I'd use. Everyone has a different comfort level, and every effort at home cooking should be encouraged, never ridiculed.


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## jpmcgrew (May 12, 2008)

I really believe that some cooks are naturals, have a great love of food or have instinctive cooking abilities they just seem to know what to do. I'm talking about basic cooking but these are the ones that with a little training or teaching them selves thru books turn into awesome chefs. I also believe if you don't have the gift no amount of cooking school will make you a great cook. And yes if you have access to the finest of ingredients it is much easier to pull off a great meal but if you don't  or don't have a lot to work with it takes a lot more of finesse to pull it off and to me that is a great cook.


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## college_cook (May 13, 2008)

I think I'm in with Constance... though I don't mind being served pre-fab food in a restaurant, what I definitely mind are half-***ed attempts that are way overpriced.  If I'm at a sit down but still casual type of place one thing I like to get is a buger, b/c it's predictable and fairly difficult to mess up.  What I hate is when I get the side of fries that's been hanging out in the basket for 10 minutes and is now lukewarm and soggy.  Even more than that, I hate when I get my great juicy, hot off the grill burger, with a piece of ice cold cheese on it.  Come on!  I know you have a salamander back there!  5 seconds under the Sally is all I ask!

I guess what it comes down to, is that I hate seeing laziness and sloppiness when I'm at a restaurant.  Cooks know when food isn't as good as it should be, and they definitely should know better than to send it out anyways.


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## college_cook (May 13, 2008)

jabbur said:


> I think the idea of food snobs has been amplified by the Top Chef programs.  The contestants always seem to have trouble with the challenges involving "everyday" stuff like when they had to make something from vending machine food or go through the neighborhood and raid average people's pantries for ingredients.  You always hear them gripe about only using "the best" ingredients to be successful.




To be fair, these chefs are used to a whole other style of cooking than alot of the folks on these boards are familiar with.  They train and work in the fine dining style, where you always have to be mindful of every element of the plate, separately and as a whole.  This means that not only are they concerned with making the food taste great, but it has to smell great, it has to look like a photo from a foodie magazine, every bite has to be great, full of flavor, but not too heavy.  There's a lot to think about, and in their world, they don't ever really have to worry about ingredients so much as the quality of ingredients they receive.  When you take a cook that uses foie gras and truffles in one of his signature dishes, and tell him to make a dish that's just as good using chicken and potatos, it's bound to do a number on him.

When I was  cook at a fine dining spot I used to gripe about it when we were sent crappy produce or meat, and the reason is because our customers came in and laid down $40 a plate.  When your customer is paying that much money for food, you have to think about food in a different way than when you're cooking at home.


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## Nancy Jane (May 13, 2008)

College Cook makes a great point.  It's important to share cooking information with people.  A lot of my friends just have me work as a consultant when they are cooking for a crowd or a big event.  I share what I know.  That's it.  Not that I know everything, but I know something.  That's good and kind.


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## ironchef (May 13, 2008)

college_cook said:


> To be fair, these chefs are used to a whole other style of cooking than alot of the folks on these boards are familiar with. They train and work in the fine dining style, where you always have to be mindful of every element of the plate, separately and as a whole. This means that not only are they concerned with making the food taste great, but it has to smell great, it has to look like a photo from a foodie magazine, every bite has to be great, full of flavor, but not too heavy. There's a lot to think about, and in their world, they don't ever really have to worry about ingredients so much as the quality of ingredients they receive. When you take a cook that uses foie gras and truffles in one of his signature dishes, and tell him to make a dish that's just as good using chicken and potatos, it's bound to do a number on him.
> 
> When I was cook at a fine dining spot I used to gripe about it when we were sent crappy produce or meat, and the reason is because our customers came in and laid down $40 a plate. When your customer is paying that much money for food, you have to think about food in a different way than when you're cooking at home.


 
+1

I think some people misinterpret a person who may have higher standards and higher expectations as food/cooking snobbery when it simply isn't the case. There's a fine line between someone who's strictly a food snob vs. someone who strives to use the best ingredients possible, and to perfect the techniques in which to use them. 

To me, a food snob is someone who looks down on people who use certain products. For myself, I don't look down on people who say, might use a boxed pre-fab mix with their hamburger. Personally, I just would never use it, but that's my thing. When I go shopping, I'm going to buy the $6/lb. vine ripened tomatoes vs. the $1.19/lb. regular tomatoes. I'm going to buy the $14/lb. sashimi grade tuna vs. the $4/lb. albacore. I'm going to buy the $25 bottle of imported Spanish EVOO vs. the $4 Bertolli. 

Some people might say that anyone could turn out good food if they also bought high end products. I say bull and challenge them to do so. You'd be surprised at how easy it is to screw up that Sonoma duck breast or Mountain Meadow lamb, and it's makes you even more sick when you remember how much more you spent on it. 

With that being said, I love it when people cook for me, even if it's the most simpliest dish using pre-fab ingredients. If it was made with their thoughtfulness and care, and then appreciate that. On the flip side, would I ever cook something like that? No, but I also don't expect everyone to be able to work with the same products and produce the same results that I do. Friends and family members tell me that they stress out sometimes if they're cooking and I'm coming over to eat. All I can tell them is that after cooking for 60 hours a week, I really don't care what it tastes like. I don't think they believe me.


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## LT72884 (May 13, 2008)

babetoo said:


> some cooks look down their noses at ones that don't make every little thing by scratch.
> 
> some cooks however just tell u how they do and u can take it or leave.
> 
> ...



I had a cooking class last night with Certifide master chef Helmut Holzer from Austria, and he used premade biscuits from dough boy. it was pretty cool


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## Nancy Jane (May 13, 2008)

Well, as my dear friend, Emeril, would say, "it ain't rocket science!"  As one of my good teachers would say, "whatever works."  Life ain't that hard.  Cooking shouldn't be either.  We cook.  They eat.  Hopefully, they weep with gratitude.  If not, they still got a belly full of something.


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## Uncle Bob (May 13, 2008)

Nancy Jane said:


> Well, as my dear friend, Emeril, would say, "it ain't rocket science!" As one of my good teachers would say, "whatever works." Life ain't that hard. Cooking shouldn't be either. We cook. They eat. Hopefully, they weep with gratitude. If not, they still got a belly full of something.


 

 I love it!! I just love it!!


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## PanchoHambre (May 13, 2008)

Snobbery is a pervasive attitude in all areas of life. It generally reveals itself thorugh an intolerance of things considered beneath said snob and involves the put down or dismissal of those people/things.

exceling at somthing or having knowledge about something does not make you a snob. Sharing that does not make you a snob. Believeing you are inherently better than someone else because of this skill or knowledge does.

I do enjoy 4 star restaurants (on the very rare occasion that I can go to one) I prefer to cook from scratch and do not buy or cook box or premade foods but  and I still enjoy food from street carts and the occassinal Big Mac.... and while I wouldn't choose to go  there if I end up at TGI Fridays with a bunch of friends I enjoy myself and drink Bud and eat the chicken fingers happily... ketsup makes anything taste good and after a few beers who cares if the breadcrumbs on your onion rings are artisinal.


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## jpmcgrew (May 13, 2008)

I worked at two different archaeological sites the archaeologists had only one motto when it came to getting their meals. I will put this as delicately as I can. " What ever you do don't screw with the cook"


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## GB (May 13, 2008)

PanchoHambre said:


> Snobbery is a pervasive attitude in all areas of life. It generally reveals itself thorugh an intolerance of things considered beneath said snob and involves the put down or dismissal of those people/things.
> 
> exceling at somthing or having knowledge about something does not make you a snob. Sharing that does not make you a snob. Believeing you are inherently better than someone else because of this skill or knowledge does.


This post, IMO, is the best post in the thread. PanchoHambre said it perfectly in two paragraphs.


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## MexicoKaren (May 13, 2008)

I agree, GB. Well said.


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## ironchef (May 13, 2008)

PanchoHambre said:


> exceling at somthing or having knowledge about something does not make you a snob. Sharing that does not make you a snob. Believeing you are inherently better than someone else because of this skill or knowledge does.


 
I don't entirely agree with this, only because it's too broad of a statement. I'll use Michael Jordan as an example. Although he was a great athlete, and by most third party accounts was one of, if not the hardest working and training player in the NBA during his time, it was his own belief that he was the best player which helped to elevate him above the others. There's a quote from him that I really like:

_"You have to expect things of yourself before you can do them."_

In order to achieve the highest level that you possibly can, you need to believe and have confidence that you're better than your peers. You need to believe that you're more skilled and more knowledgable because if not, you're going to doubt your palate and doubt the food that you produce.


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## GB (May 13, 2008)

There is a difference in believing you are better than your peers at what you do (job, sport, what have you) because you have more knowledge and/or skills over thinking you are a better person than your peers because of these things. That is where the difference is. A snob thinks they are a better person or that people who do not think like they do are below them. 

Jordan is a (slightly) better ball player than I am, but he is not a better person  than I am because of it.


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## jpmcgrew (May 13, 2008)

As said before believing you are better doe's not necessary make you better. Such a person may just be suffering from a grandiose illusion to match an enormous ego. One doe's not have to have a good palate for that. Ive seen it a hundred times. I have been showered with praise on my cooking abilities and yet wonder if what I just made could not have been made even better.


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## Nancy Jane (May 13, 2008)

Well, it all just boils down to one thing, regardless of what you do.  Love.  If your intentions are to help someone, share something you know and make the world a better place, that's all there is to it.  The rule book isn't all that long or hard to memorize.  Love.  If you feed someone, that's love.


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## Maverick2272 (May 13, 2008)

I really like what PanchoHambre said, well said! I also think GB stated it pretty clearly and concisely as well, a snob thinks they are a better person than you because they can do something better than you, or have something you don't have, etc. 

Other than that, I say put your money where your mouth is, so I can put your food where my mouth is! Even if you are only half as good as you think you are, I still win! LOL. I love all food types from down home cooking to top notch chefs and their restaurants, but my comfort zone is definitely with the down home cooks. Not because I think chefs are snobs, but just because I can relate better with down home cooks. And quite honestly if the chef is going to cook for me, I would fail to see the downside to them being a bit of a snob over their ingredients...
I just try to keep an open mind.


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## Adillo303 (May 14, 2008)

I too like what PanchoHombre said. To address what IronChef said. To have a knowledge or skill and believe in yourself is not snobery. The ONLY way you will develope knowledge or skill is to believe in and drive yoruself. No one can give that to you. The snobery part comes in in the way that you interface with others because of that skill. If you look down on or belittle peolpe because of your skill in a certain area, then you are a snob. Better to share that skill and help others.

It is also good to remember that we all have skills, some in different areas than others. The people that do not have the skills in your area of expertise may have very signiificant skills in other areas.


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## PanchoHambre (May 14, 2008)

GB said:


> There is a difference in believing you are better than your peers at what you do (job, sport, what have you) because you have more knowledge and/or skills over thinking you are a better person than your peers because of these things. That is where the difference is. A snob thinks they are a better person or that people who do not think like they do are below them.
> 
> Jordan is a (slightly) better ball player than I am, but he is not a better person than I am because of it.


 

thanks GB that is what I meant


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