# Breasts



## Gravy Queen (Apr 20, 2012)

Ah. Now I have your attention. 

I am fascinated by how big chicken portions seem to be in the States. I have the Food Network channel and like to catch up with different chefs on there. I've seen Rachel Ray, Tyler Florence, oooh and someone who grills meat, Bobby Flay? I love Barefoot Contessa the best though. 
Anyway I digress.

The breasts are huge! The chickens must be massive !!! Is this the case and why ?

I hate a scrawny chicken. Give me big plump bird anytime but they are quite hard to find here especially if you want organic or free range, which cost the earth.


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## Andy M. (Apr 20, 2012)

Americans are, by and large, white meat eaters.  More boneless skinless chicken breasts are sold than any other part.  Big breasts are a selling point.


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## bakechef (Apr 20, 2012)

I bought two bone-in chicken breast halves for dinner last night.  They were possibly the largest that I have ever bought.  There were 2 in the package and the package was 4 POUNDS!  They looked like they were more from a small turkey!

Free range, organic chickens are usually smaller or more "normal" size here.  When buying chickens whole, they are usually around 4 pounds, although we have larger birds that are marketed as "oven stuffer" that can be on average 7-8 pounds.

I would love to see how big this chicken was that we ate last night!


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## Margi Cintrano (Apr 20, 2012)

Gravy Queen,

Hilarious post ! 

Yes, I have to say chickens seem alot larger in the USA than in Spain or Italy.    

@ Andy:  are large breasts really a selling point ? !  In the 21st Millennium, breasts can be any size you order !! 

Ha ha ha ...

Have a nice wkend.
Margi. Cintrano.


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## Bolas De Fraile (Apr 20, 2012)

Darling small breasts are a let down but I'm sure you know a bit of padding works wonders clic on pic to make the breasts bigger


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## taxlady (Apr 20, 2012)

I'm sure they have been breeding for large birds here, but I suspect there is probably some growth hormone involved. That would explain why the organic ones are smaller.


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## Gravy Queen (Apr 20, 2012)

Bonio darling I don't need any padding. I love a good stuffing though. Obsessed with it!

So, the chickens are bred to be bigger, not many buy free range then? It can be quite a snobby thing here "oh I ONLY eat free range catholic presbyterian chickens who have been treated well and raised on Cruise Liners".

Nah, I just want a big plump one!!


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## Margi Cintrano (Apr 20, 2012)

Gravy Queen,

You certainly have all the Members checking out your post !!!  See, all it takes is a body part or hedonistic expression  ... ha ha ha 



Tax Lady,

Yes, I am in agreement --- Spanish organic chickens, called Coral, are quite a bit smaller ... 

Bolas,

Thanks for the visuals ! 

Have a nice wkend. 

Margi.


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## LindaZ (Apr 20, 2012)

Bolas De Fraile said:


> Darling small breasts are a let down but I'm sure you know a bit of padding works wondersView attachment 13534 clic on pic to make the breasts bigger


 

 - chicken breast augmentation?


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## Steve Kroll (Apr 20, 2012)

I actually did some research on this awhile back because I wondered the same thing. I'm generally untrusting of the corporate food industry, so I just assumed that chickens were given growth hormones or something scary was added to the feed. Turns out it isn't anything like that. Growth hormones for chicken are illegal here, just like they are in most places (antibiotics are a different story, however). 

There are two factors that cause the larger breasts: genetics and age. Like Andy said, most people in this country have been conditioned over time to believe that fat is bad, so we've become a nation of white meat eaters. The poultry industry has responded by breeding chickens that tend to be "top-heavy". Also, US chickens go to market an average of two weeks later than in other parts of the world.

As for organic or free-range chickens having smaller breasts, sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Some farms raise so-called "heritage breeds" that are smaller and more like chickens were when I was a kid. Others raise the same bland-tasting big breasted birds used by food biggies Purdue and Tyson.

Though I like chicken, I don't eat a lot of it because the free-range antibiotic-free (and maybe Presbyterian ) farm chickens I prefer cost almost four times what the standard supermarket birds cost. But they have a lot more flavor, or at least I think so. Even the breast meat is meatier. We buy 8-10 whole roaster chickens a year and freeze them. About half of them I'll cut up into smaller portions. The rest we roast whole. Whole roasted chicken seems to be something that not many people here in the US do much of anymore. Which is kind of a shame.


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## jennyema (Apr 20, 2012)

Chickens and turkeys are bred that way here by the factory farmers. Their breasts are so large that they cant walk properly, if they are allowed to walk at all.

If you buy totally non factory birds, like heirloom or heritage turkeys, you will be very surprised at their proportions.


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## 4meandthem (Apr 20, 2012)

YES! We Americans like big breasts!


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## Bolas De Fraile (Apr 20, 2012)

Gravy Queen said:


> Bonio darling I don't need any padding. I love a good stuffing though. Obsessed with it!
> 
> So, the chickens are bred to be bigger, not many buy free range then? It can be quite a snobby thing here "oh I ONLY eat free range catholic presbyterian chickens who have been treated well and raised on Cruise Liners".
> 
> Nah, I just want a big plump one!!


A castrated Rooster is what you need. My Dad would chop a few every month, this has two benefits.

1 they cock a doodle do like Maria Callas.
2 They grow quickly to the size of small Turkeys.

The down side was for little jimmy our prize cock when Dad put him in with the flock he got rather confused

Queen we British Stuff a lot as you know, in fact that is why we live in Great Britain. The Great in Great Britain was put there because we stuffed all sorts of nation and called them our own. Our ex colonial serfs do not call it stuffing because they dont tend to stuff, the cook the stuffing in a tray and refer to it as dressing. I like stuffing and dressing in no particular order.


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## taxlady (Apr 20, 2012)

Bolas De Fraile said:


> A castrated Rooster is what you need. My Dad would chop a few every month, this has two benefits.
> 
> 1 they cock a doodle do like Maria Callas.
> 2 They grow quickly to the size of small Turkeys.
> ...


I'm very fond of capon. Not only are they big, they are more juicy and tender than chickens.

Where I live, most people don't know about them, so they get sold as "big chickens". Maybe that is happening in parts of the US too.


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## GLC (Apr 20, 2012)

The size of many chicken breasts in the U.S. today borders on the freakish. It's a matter of breeding and feeding. A chicken bred to become enormous in the allowed 40 days is not going to be a very flavorful chicken, and while it had been designed to have large muscles, they are not very developed muscles. That has all sorts of results. And, while growth hormones may be out, dosing water with salts increases weight and therefore profit. You can do an awful lot to a chicken for the sake of weight, when you only have to keep the chicken alive for six weeks. Do you not find that these chickens give off annoying amounts of water during cooking? They are big chickens, but not good chickens. There is some hope that the trend toward local products may increase the availability of real chickens.

When you read the legal histories of large chicken producers, like Tyson, it's clear that they are dedicated to working every possible angle to circumvent the spirit of even the corporate-friendly food laws.


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## bakechef (Apr 20, 2012)

GLC said:


> Do you not find that these chickens give off annoying amounts of water during cooking?



I found these giant breasts to be really juicy, but when cooking (slow smoking for an hour and then grilling them) they gave off very little water.


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## Rocklobster (Apr 20, 2012)

Steve Kroll said:


> whole roasted chicken seems to be something that not many people here in the US do much of anymore. Which is kind of a shame.



You are right. I brought a few chickens, quarterd and did them up on the bbq for a party and some of the people didn't seem to know how to eat them. Some of the teenagers and young adults seemed awkward.(I don't think it was how they were cooked, I got compliments from a few other people) I think most of the chicken people eat now just require a fork or they eat it in between a burger bun...


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## Greg Who Cooks (Apr 20, 2012)

GLC said:


> The size of many chicken breasts in the U.S. today borders on the freakish. It's a matter of breeding and feeding. A chicken bred to become enormous in the allowed 40 days is not going to be a very flavorful chicken, and while it had been designed to have large muscles, they are not very developed muscles. That has all sorts of results. And, while growth hormones may be out, dosing water with salts increases weight and therefore profit. You can do an awful lot to a chicken for the sake of weight, when you only have to keep the chicken alive for six weeks. Do you not find that these chickens give off annoying amounts of water during cooking? They are big chickens, but not good chickens. There is some hope that the trend toward local products may increase the availability of real chickens.
> 
> When you read the legal histories of large chicken producers, like Tyson, it's clear that they are dedicated to working every possible angle to circumvent the spirit of even the corporate-friendly food laws.



I agree with this and the other comments along the same line. Chicken breast meat is the most expensive chicken cut and the more producers can make the more they profit. They're breeding and feeding them for large breasts, and slaughtering them later to get this result.

IMO breast meat is the least flavorful and driest part of the chicken. Most often I buy thighs or leg quarters, and even when buying skinless boneless I buy thigh meat, not breast meat.

I guess most Americans don't agree with me regarding their favorite chicken meat.


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## lyndalou (Apr 20, 2012)

These large breasts freak me out, sometimes. I usually cook just one for my husband and me. If I am making chicken parm I cut one in half and pound the 2 pieces to the thinness needed. Works for me.


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## Addie (Apr 20, 2012)

I am with Greg. I do not like white meat. Chicken or turkey. Dry and no flavor. Give me the chicken of my youth. Two chickens in the oven for Sunday dinner for six folks. Lots of flavor and enough juices to make a reasonable amount of gravy for everyone. 

Now don't get me started on skinless parts. YUK!!!


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## Merlot (Apr 20, 2012)

I roast a whole chicken about every two weeks.  When I buy breasts separately I have gotten some rather large ones.  One could almost feed 3 of us (with sides).  I do prefer dark meat like Greg and Addie!


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## bakechef (Apr 20, 2012)

If your breast meat is dry, your doing something wrong.


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## Whiskadoodle (Apr 20, 2012)

I admit I am a breast man myself.  Chickens.  Yes, i notice the chix breasts have been getting bigger.  I used to cook two, one for leftovers,  but  now I often have part of the first one as a remainder too.  More lunch for tomorrow. 

I like turkey dark meat better.  I guess that means I like longer legs and bigger breasts.  

Does anyone remember when you could get packages of cut up chickens and they were " 3 breasted" or " 3 legged" birds?  How did they grow 'em like that

Here is an article in the Wall Street Journal published this week, April 16.


*Dark Meat Getting a Leg Up On Boring Boneless Breast*


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## Greg Who Cooks (Apr 20, 2012)

bakechef said:


> If your breast meat is dry, your doing something wrong.


IMO breast meat is inherently drier, less juicy, less flavorful than thigh meat. Yes of course you can cook it less and partly remedy that. However I find that it's not uncommon at all for restaurants to over cook chicken, like for example pasta with bite sized chicken pieces. It's gotten to the point where I'm reluctant to order such dishes.


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## GLC (Apr 20, 2012)

I note in the article, Chipotle was cited as buying dark exclusively because of more flavor. (A little surprising, though. Chipotle so grossly overstuffs burritos that one flavor has little chance.)  But fajitas are never breasts, always thighs. 

I suppose the logical result of this will be chickens who look like Popeye. Scrawny chests and bulbous limbs. At least the free range ones will have a better chance. They're going to be hard to catch.


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## Andy M. (Apr 20, 2012)

That's a depressing article!  The new demand for dark meat is driving the prices up!  In order to be really economical, we'll all have to buy whole chickens on sale and deconstruct them at home.


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## buckytom (Apr 20, 2012)

if treated right, big breasts can be a wonderful thing, although, i'm a medium to small breast man, myself. chickens and wimmen, respectively.  

i love to pound out a huge breast, tenderizing it in that way, then make thick chicken cutlets for chicken parm so that you primarily taste the chicken, not just breading, sauce, and cheese.

even better are halved breasts in a cacciatore or paella. the dryness of the white meat kinda sucks in the sauce or surrounding flavours. 

a big rack, or fun bags, cans, hooters, or sweater puppies on chicken isn't such a bad thing. it just takes attention to detail.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Apr 20, 2012)

Gravy Queen said:


> Bonio darling I don't need any padding. I love a good stuffing though. Obsessed with it!
> 
> So, the chickens are bred to be bigger, not many buy free range then? It can be quite a snobby thing here "oh I ONLY eat free range catholic presbyterian chickens who have been treated well and raised on Cruise Liners".
> 
> Nah, I just want a big plump one!!



I'm so glad I was done eating when I read this post.  There would have been eggplant parm all over!

Most of the time the problem with the huge over grown chickens is they are rather tasteless.  I prefer a nice free range chicken, tastes so much better.  We have a Hutterite community near here who sell their chickens and they are the best.  And their turkeys are fantastic!

Thanks for the laugh!


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## Greg Who Cooks (Apr 20, 2012)

I suspect that anybody who has tried free range chicken would know it tastes better than cage chicken. I would buy free range all the time if not for the price, and also depending on the recipe sometimes the sauces and other tastes overwhelm the chicken and the full taste of free range might not be so evident.


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## Addie (Apr 20, 2012)

Does anyone remember when you could get packages of cut up chickens and they were " 3 breasted" or " 3 legged" birds? How did they grow 'em like that?


Another cup of coffee on the screen.


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## Merlot (Apr 20, 2012)

Gravy Queen said:


> Bonio darling I don't need any padding. I love a good stuffing though. Obsessed with it!
> 
> So, the chickens are bred to be bigger, not many buy free range then? It can be quite a snobby thing here "oh I ONLY eat free range catholic presbyterian chickens who have been treated well and raised on Cruise Liners".
> 
> Nah, I just want a big plump one!!


 

 + 1 on your humor


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## Addie (Apr 20, 2012)

Merlot said:


> + 1 on your humor


 
+2


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## Whiskadoodle (Apr 20, 2012)

Some years ago we went to visit some friends who were renting a small farm.  We brought along 2 packages of chicken parts to contribute towards dinner.   The wife was  really pregnant, not too energetic and it was a hot summer day .   No air conditioning at their house, and we thought we would be grilling chicken.   Dumb as we were,  we forgot to bring along any charcoal !  When it came time to make dinner,  she pulled two cast iron fry pans out and slapped the chickens in and closed the oven door.   No seasoned flour, not even salt and pepper.   Sat out on the porch while dinner cooked.  Later, us guys went out to the cornfield and brought in an armload of fresh young field corn ( the kind you feed to your livestock).     Dinner time rolls around.   The chicken came out of the oven brown and the skin was crispy and the melted fat  in the pans was soon  turned into gravy.    The chicken tasted like Chicken.  It was the best chicken and mashed taters and gravy  and corn I think I ever ate.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Apr 20, 2012)

I've often cooked a whole chicken with no treatment other than washing it off and throwing it on a rack in a preheated oven. It always comes out good.

Only recently have I become interested in country gravy and haven't tried it on a chicken roast yet.


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## PattY1 (Apr 21, 2012)

Andy M. said:


> Americans are, by and large, white meat eaters.  More boneless skinless chicken breasts are sold than any other part.  Big breasts are a selling point.




I think that they might be using Breast of Oven Stuffer Roasters opposed to skinny Frying Chickens. When they (OSR) used to be cheap on sale I used to only buy them and use them for all of my recipes. I would cut the breast into 4 good size servings.


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## PattY1 (Apr 21, 2012)

Bolas De Fraile said:


> Darling small breasts are a let down but I'm sure you know a bit of padding works wondersView attachment 13534 clic on pic to make the breasts bigger




What happened to the Breast? The other end looks full of .....


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## gadzooks (Apr 21, 2012)

American chickens tend to be larger in part because the American poultry industry is allowed to feed the birds large amounts of growth hormones in order to cut the time from egg to market. Free range organic tend to be smaller and tastier.


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## PattY1 (Apr 21, 2012)

bakechef said:


> if your breast meat is dry, your doing something wrong.




View attachment 13540View attachment 13540View attachment 13540


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## PattY1 (Apr 21, 2012)

Addie said:


> +2



+3


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## Bolas De Fraile (Apr 21, 2012)

Gravy Queen said:


> So, the chickens are bred to be bigger, not many buy free range then? It can be quite a snobby thing here "oh I ONLY eat free range catholic presbyterian chickens who have been treated well and raised on Cruise Liners".


Dahling Grunfuttock you have solved a mystery, we returned to our cabin (lovely balcony ) I was very very drunk to find what I thought was a croissant on the bed, my wife thought it was a crab but now I think its a chicken?
Croatian Dreams :: 2006_1019yorkshiredales0010.mp4 video by Hvar2010 - Photobucket


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## GLC (Apr 21, 2012)

Okay. Don't believe idle statements on the Internet. 




*No steroid hormone of any kind is approved for use in chicken or pork in the U.S., and no one is interested in using them, anyway. *

(Beef is a different story.)  



Growth hormone in chicken is a very persistent myth, for some easily understood reasons. One is that medical societies and even WHO made ignorant pleas to stop their use when they weren't being used at all. Another is that, because the falsehood was appearing so frequently, some companies started advertising that they used no hormones, and that made some people believe the other growers must be using them. (Do you still beat your wife?) 

Growth hormones are proteins. They can't be ingested and do anything, because they will be digested. They must be injected, and even that doesn't work in young chickens. They tried it. They injected chickens three times a day for the first 24 days and had pretty much no effect.* You've seen that with athletes. It's always a story of a trainer injecting the player, never of pills. Had it been pills, many would not have been discovered. Want to try injecting several thousand chickens at least once a day? 




And growth hormones are simply not useful in chickens. Chickens have a short cycle from birth to reproductive age, so you can selectively breed very quickly. They're only alive for 40 days or so before slaughter. In a chicken already bred for rapid growth, an effective dose of growth hormone would just kill a lot of them and might well introduce behavioral problems into an already difficult environment. It's been way too easy to bulk up chickens by feeding, nutrient supplements, breeding, and limiting activity. It hasn't produced a tastier chicken - quite the opposite - but it's produced a bigger chicken. 

robot chicken opening - YouTube

It would really dumb to put all you're eggs in the growth hormone basket when you can just breed strains for the traits you want and go on reproducing them forever for no further cost. 

* W.H. BURKE, J.A. MOORE, J.R. OGEZ and S.E. BUILDER
- Author Affiliations

Department of Poultry Science, University of Georgia (W.H.B.) Athens, Georgia 30602
Genentech, Inc. (J.A.M., J.R.O., S.E.B.) South San Francisco, CA 94080

"Within 60 min after sc injection of rcGH (480–960 μg/kg) in chickens, plasma GH levels increased 4- to 6-fold and remained significantly elevated for at least 5 h. Thrice-daily injections from age 2–24 days had little effect on growth or feed consumption in either male or female broiler chicks. Plasma levels of insulin and triglycerides were significantly elevated by rcGH in 24-day-old females, but not in males. Injection of rcGH counteracted a reduction of tibia length observed in saline-injected controls. The rcGH had no effect on carcass protein, ash content, or nitrogen retention.

"It is important to note that exogenous GH can be a productivity- enhancing factor in other commercially important species. Administration of bovine GH to cows has been shown to induce a significant increase in milk production (28). This study shows that administration Of rcGH to chickens can lead to some significant metabolic effects. However, it is the conclusion of this report that the level of circulating GH is not the limiting factor in the growth of this highly selected species." (Endocrinology 120: 651–658,1987)

(rcGH is recombinant chicken growth hormone.) 

In another study, an elaborate continuous IV setup only succeeded in adding some body fat.


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## Addie (Apr 24, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> I've often cooked a whole chicken with no treatment other than washing it off and throwing it on a rack in a preheated oven. It always comes out good.
> 
> Only recently have I become interested in country gravy and haven't tried it on a chicken roast yet.


 
My son put a seven pounder roaster in the oven at 425 the other night. He fell asleep. Two and a half hors later he woke up and expected to find the bird burnt to a blackened crisp. Surprisingly, the bird was done to  perfection. Even the breast was nice and moist. The skin was golden brown and crispy. And the pop up thingy was popping out of itself. Best chichen he ever made.


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## CharlieD (Apr 24, 2012)

Oh, big breasts ...
Kosher chickens here are pretty small here. So I totally understand it.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Apr 24, 2012)

Addie said:


> My son put a seven pounder roaster in the oven at 425 the other night. He fell asleep. Two and a half hors later he woke up and expected to find the bird burnt to a blackened crisp. Surprisingly, the bird was done to  perfection. Even the breast was nice and moist. The skin was golden brown and crispy. And the pop up thingy was popping out of itself. Best chichen he ever made.


Yesterday's mistake becomes tomorrow's best recipe!


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## Gravy Queen (Apr 25, 2012)

I am making Chicken Kiev today, managed to get  hold of some fairly big breasts for a change!

Exciting!


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## CWS4322 (Apr 25, 2012)

gadzooks said:


> American chickens tend to be larger in part because the American poultry industry is allowed to feed the birds large amounts of growth hormones in order to cut the time from egg to market. Free range organic tend to be smaller and tastier.


This is not true. Poultry producers do not feed growth hormones, there are no approved growth hormones for poultry or pork in North America. KFC recently got "busted" on a Canadian show for advertising that KFC served only hormone-free chicken. What has happened in the poultry industry is a higher demand for dark meat, and the development of meat breeds that mature at a faster rate so they get to market sooner.


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## CharlieD (Apr 25, 2012)

Gravy Queen said:


> I am making Chicken Kiev today, managed to get hold of some fairly big breasts for a change!
> 
> Exciting!


 
Love chicken Kiev, if done right it is very delightfull. 
Just don't overcook it.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Apr 25, 2012)

Gravy Queen said:


> I am making Chicken Kiev today, *managed to get  hold of some fairly big breasts for a change!*
> 
> Exciting!


I'm so thrilled for you! 



CWS4322 said:


> ... What has happened in the poultry industry is a higher demand for dark meat, and the development of meat breeds that mature at a faster rate so they get to market sooner.



I thought most people wanted white meat. What gives?


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## 4meandthem (Apr 25, 2012)

Andy M. said:


> That's a depressing article! The new demand for dark meat is driving the prices up! In order to be really economical, we'll all have to buy whole chickens on sale and deconstruct them at home.


 
That's what i do most of the time. .79 cents a lb for foster farms and I can bust one down in about a minute. I save the bones or cooked carcasses in empty milk cartons and add my veggie trimmings to the cartons. 2 or 3 cartons will make a nice stock. I am sure you know that that though! I am just saying I still do that. I keep my food costs as low as I can so I splurge when I want to.


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## Addie (Apr 26, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> I'm so thrilled for you!
> 
> I thought most people wanted white meat. What gives?


 
People are getting tired of being told tasteless food is the way to go. We all know "Fat = Taste and Flavor." I am sure your Kiev was delicious. But you have to admit, all the flavor was in the fillng. Not the meat. Wouldn't it have tasted so much better if you have used the meat from a deboned chicken thigh? There is also a ton of flavor in the skin. Deboning the leg and thigh on a chicken is so easy. This week in my area, chicken quarters are on sale for $.69 per pound. My son is going to be picking up a large package for both of us. We both have some bread that needs to be turned into large crumbs. Make some stuffing with it, lay the meat from the thigh out flat and pound it to your needed thickness. Place a layer of the stuffing, roll, toothpick, and bake. You now have a flavorful meal. 

With four full quarters, broken down to legs and thighs and deboned, I will have eight meals. And they will be tasty. 

I won't even consider a meal with the chicken breasts. My daughter makes broccoli and chicken with penne. She doesn't even offer to send me a plate. I love the broccoli and penne, but the chicken breasts turn me off completely. 

I recently purchased two large 2" bone in pork chops for stuffing. I told the butcher to leave the layer of fat on the outside. I stuffed them, rolled them in seasoned flour, and baked them. They were so moist. You don't have to eat the fat. but you need it there to flavor the meat when cooking. 

Lamb has a somewhat strong flavor. With the fat on, the flavor is more intense. Just leave the fat on the meat when cooking. Leave it on your plate when eating. 

 Who in their right mind would cook liver without the bacon? What do a lot of cooks lay across the top of their meatloaf? Bacon. I am not saying we have to clog our arteries with fat, but if you want flavor with your meat, then it is a necessary component. And the public is getting wise to this fact.


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## Gravy Queen (Apr 26, 2012)

Do you know Addie, thats a great idea with the chicken thighs I might just do a kiev experiment with them. I love chicken thighs. We can buy them ready de-boned. 

Actually my kievs were a little on the huge size, with my greediness for the bigger breast, possibly a bit too big. Eyes bigger than belly.


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## Margi Cintrano (Apr 26, 2012)

*@ GQ: Chef Jaime Olivier´s Mediterranean Cookbook*

 Gravy Queen,

I truly like Chef Jaime Oliver´s Mediterranean Cookbook on Italian, Greek, Spanish, Turkish & Moroccan. Lovely lovely book of recipes and photos. I had received it as a gift in 2011. 

  Do you know it ? 

I am also writing to mention, I love Chicken Kiev ! This is a to die for, and go to heaven dish ... 

I have never prepared it, however, I have had it at the Russian Tearoom in Manhattan many times over the years.  

Kind regards.
Margi.


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## Gravy Queen (Apr 26, 2012)

Hi Margi, yes I love Jamie, I have his "Jamie Does" cookbook, which includes Spain, Greek, Morocco etc. One of the first dishes I cooked from it was Mechoui Lamb, its divine!


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## Margi Cintrano (Apr 27, 2012)

Gravy Queen,

GOOD MORNING. 

I shall definitely take a look on Saturday at your suggestion in Jaime Olivers Mediterranean cookbk. of the lamb dish. Sounds very interesting. 

I am going to prepare the spinach lasagne that Charlie D. had posted. I am in editorial deadline through 30th and off all next week, so I like to have lasagne, so all I have to do is heat up a nice square ... and be done with it for my own lunches ... a quick rocket salad and vinaigrette ... 

And the Shepherds Bread Broth with Pecorino Sardo Rind from Kadesma ... I make my Mothers Broth, the name of the recipe: Il Brodo di Mi Madre; HOWEVER, in reality it is my grandmoms recipe === It is still chilly in Madrid. 

We have bank holidays next week, it is actually Labor Day 1st and 2nd ... 

Thanks for suggesting.
Have nice wkend. 
Margi.


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## Bacardi1 (Apr 27, 2012)

All of the arguments re: "growth hormones, antibiotics" aside, if you're buying separate chicken parts - like "skin-on bone-in" chicken breasts, they come from "roasters" that weren't pristine enough in appearance to be sold as whole "roasters".  In fact, that's where all separate "chicken parts" come from - birds that are bruised, missing limbs, or otherwise unsuitable to be sold as whole birds, are taken apart & sold as parts or relegated to ground chicken. This is why you'll sometimes buy a package of "whole cut up chicken" & find an extra leg or breast. This ain't all coming from the same chicken.
 
You won't normally find "small" boneless, skinless chicken breasts, because the breasts from rejected "whole" smaller birds aren't worth the effort & are relegated to the "ground chicken" brigade.


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## Andy M. (Apr 27, 2012)

Bacardi1 said:


> All of the arguments re: "growth hormones, antibiotics" aside, if you're buying separate chicken parts - like "skin-on bone-in" chicken breasts, they come from "roasters" that weren't pristine enough in appearance to be sold as whole "roasters".  In fact, that's where all separate "chicken parts" come from - birds that are bruised, missing limbs, or otherwise unsuitable to be sold as whole birds, are taken apart & sold as parts or relegated to ground chicken. This is why you'll sometimes buy a package of "whole cut up chicken" & find an extra leg or breast. This ain't all coming from the same chicken.
> 
> You won't normally find "small" boneless, skinless chicken breasts, because the breasts from rejected "whole" smaller birds aren't worth the effort & are relegated to the "ground chicken" brigade.



I find it hard to believe the chicken industry relys on non-pristine chickens to provide all it's need for cut up chicken.  

I don't doubt some of the cut up parts are from damaged but viable birds.  However I'd bet a healthy percentage are just chickens that are cut up to meet demand.  Considering parts are much more expensive than whole birds, this just isn't an issue.


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## CharlieD (Apr 27, 2012)

Not sure about "pristine..." or not so "pristine..." chickens, but in fact most "chickens" that we do buy today are in fact roosters. If you get a whole "chicken" and are careful when taking it apart you will sometimes, albeit not very often will find male parts that were not completely taken out during processing. 

On the separate note, when making Chicken Kiev one doesn’t really needs a big breast, but what you do need is a whole chicken. To prepare it properly, according to the original recipe, the breast has to come with the small bone (the part of the wing, not sure what it is called) and then pounded meat flat and wraps the butter inside. This is not very common practice outside of Kiev, I do not know why. I will try to include picture here, I always have problems with pictures though.


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## CharlieD (Apr 27, 2012)

Here is the link to a russian site if you care to look at the short video and some pictures, you do not have to understand russian, it is self explanatory:

: , , , , , | -


Hm, looks weird, but click on it, it will work.


P.S. For those artistically inclined, you can cut up pretty napkin holder wrap around the bone and then serve, that is how it was done in restaurants in Kiev.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Apr 27, 2012)

Bacardi1 said:


> All of the arguments re: "growth hormones, antibiotics" aside, if you're buying separate chicken parts - like "skin-on bone-in" chicken breasts, they come from "roasters" that weren't pristine enough in appearance to be sold as whole "roasters".  In fact, that's where all separate "chicken parts" come from - birds that are bruised, missing limbs, or otherwise unsuitable to be sold as whole birds, are taken apart & sold as parts or relegated to ground chicken. This is why you'll sometimes buy a package of "whole cut up chicken" & find an extra leg or breast. This ain't all coming from the same chicken.
> 
> You won't normally find "small" boneless, skinless chicken breasts, because the breasts from rejected "whole" smaller birds aren't worth the effort & are relegated to the "ground chicken" brigade.



That seems entirely speculative to me. What I see in the markets is mostly chicken parts, ground chicken, and whole chickens as the least of all. Your explanation seems to imply that more often than not chickens are damaged and have been "parted out" because their appearance is too poor to be sold whole.

Rather, I think there's an entirely different explanation. Most home cooks prefer chicken parts over whole chickens. They either don't want to cook a whole chicken, they're cooking something that is suited for all breasts, all thighs, etc., or they're intimidated by dismantling a chicken themselves.

My explanation is much simpler than assuming most chickens are too damaged to be sold whole.


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## Steve Kroll (Apr 27, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> That seems entirely speculative to me. What I see in the markets is mostly chicken parts, ground chicken, and whole chickens as the least of all. Your explanation seems to imply that more often than not chickens are damaged and have been "parted out" because their appearance is too poor to be sold whole.
> 
> Rather, I think there's an entirely different explanation. Most home cooks prefer chicken parts over whole chickens. They either don't want to cook a whole chicken, they're cooking something that is suited for all breasts, all thighs, etc., or they're intimidated by dismantling a chicken themselves.
> 
> My explanation is much simpler than assuming most chickens are too damaged to be sold whole.


I agree wholeheartedly... or maybe wholebreastedly.


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## Addie (Apr 27, 2012)

Steve Kroll said:


> I agree wholeheartedly... or maybe wholebreastedly.


 
+1

I can cut up a chicken with the best of them. But the difference between buying a whole chicken or cut up parts is pennies. I will spend the extra pennies for cut up parts over a whole chicken, when I only want certain parts to begin with.


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## GLC (Apr 27, 2012)

Andy M. said:


> I find it hard to believe the chicken industry relys on non-pristine chickens to provide all it's need for cut up chicken.
> 
> I don't doubt some of the cut up parts are from damaged but viable birds.  However I'd bet a healthy percentage are just chickens that are cut up to meet demand.  Considering parts are much more expensive than whole birds, this just isn't an issue.



As offensive as some of their methods are, I cannot believe that meat chicken production doesn't produce extremely consistent chickens which, regardless of their relative culinary value, aren't as uniform and secured from bad effects as is engineeringly possible. In other words, if they were raising that many bad birds, they'd reengineer to do better. Extra parts is more likely the result of trying to make up packages of about the same weight, as well as orphaned parts resulting from butchering mistakes. 

Chicken growout operation is strictly a massive volume business. I doubt very much that a significantly injured chicken is deemed worth of further feeding. Sick and injured chickens are not supposed to become meat for human consumption. I don't doubt that some are discovered late in the process and become "mechanically separated meat" or parts. But I think that if injuries were that common and were being left in the food line, we'd find more broken bones in our food chickens that weren't detected.


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## blissful (Apr 29, 2012)

GLC said:


> Chicken growout operation is strictly a massive volume business.


Some of my friends raise chickens, to avoid the massive chickens raised in industrial methods. The organic farm my son just went to stay (intern) at, only has a few hundred meat chickens (versus egg layers). I would love to raise some here and I'm not sure my neighborhood would allow it (acre lots).



> I don't doubt that some are discovered late in the process and become "mechanically separated meat" or parts. But I think that if injuries were that common and were being left in the food line, we'd find more broken bones in our food chickens that weren't detected.


I agree with you here very much. I have seen bruised turkeys and in the past 20 years maybe one broken bone on a chicken.

But if we begin with mechanically separated meat or parts then we start to walk down the same path as 'pink slime', and the controversy with that. 

A few months before my son left for his chicken adventure, I taught him how to cut up a whole chicken into pieces. It was fun to work with him, he seemed to understand how the chicken came apart, joint by joint and then how to cut the breasts into smaller serving pieces. I heard he was butchering chickens last week--awesome--something I've never done. I hope when he comes back he will teach me that.


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## Harry Cobean (Apr 30, 2012)

Gravy Queen said:


> Bonio darling I don't need any padding. I love a good stuffing though. Obsessed with it!


hey groovey!!
any particular preference on which cavity? & i presume that a gal like you likes plenty of meat!
personally i prefer to spit roast my birds,need to find a big one if you are going to share with a friend tho'.............
love the avatar gravy but i've gotta say i did prefer you in spandex.....our children will be beautiful!!
hairy cobnut


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## Bolas De Fraile (Apr 30, 2012)

Good Morning Bro I am glad you could join us.All is well here although the back passage flooded after you left.

Thanks for the visit and as always the pleasure was all yours


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## Harry Cobean (Apr 30, 2012)

hey big bro'
back passage flooded eh? it's an age thing matey!
once again the pleasure *was* all mine but at £1.41 per looter it's rapidly becoming a guilty one
will bring over my slow cooker & a chunk of brisket and we'll knock out a cheats bbq beef next time i come a callin'
love to madge
harry


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## GLC (Apr 30, 2012)

Gourmet Greg said:


> I've often cooked a whole chicken with no treatment other than washing it off and throwing it on a rack in a preheated oven. It always comes out good.
> 
> Only recently have I become interested in country gravy and haven't tried it on a chicken roast yet.



I hit on a pretty good combination Sunday. I had a five-pound package of drumsticks I got cheap. I guess it had about 14 drumsticks. I just tossed them in olive oil and salt and laid them out on a backing sheet in a 450F oven for 1 hour and 20 minutes. Also had cut up carrots, celery and an onion in an other pan in with it, also tossed with oil. 

The chicken was perfectly browned and tender. We had two drumsticks for lunch and saved two for night. Put the rest in with the vegetables and two gallons of water with a handful of sage, parsley and thyme and boiled for four hours. Served the two drumsticks with rice cooked in the stock and some of the carrots from the stock put. (The carrots stayed firm and still had reasonable flavor at the end.) 

So I got most of two meals and two gallons of good stock to freeze in bags for maybe $7 and very little effort.


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## Andy M. (Apr 30, 2012)

Doesn't it make you feel good when you can get a couple of meals and all that stock for a few bucks?


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## Addie (May 1, 2012)

Thought this might interest all of you. We already knew it. 

Prices go thigh-high as consumers seek dark meat | US National Headlines | Comcast


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## Addie (May 1, 2012)

Chicken quarters have been on sale for the past couple of weeks. My preferred butcher sells them by the bag full. I think I will be picking up a bag full and bone them myself. Not difficult at all. I wil leave the skin on. 

I only eat one per meal. So if I pick up a bag of ten quarters, that is twenty meals for me. Time to get out the food saver.


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## GLC (May 1, 2012)

I haven't seen the price increase here, yet. Drumsticks last week were $1.29/pound in five pound packs. Whole chickens still 77-cents. I don't know if it makes any difference, but thigh meat has long been heavily consumed here, because it's generally the choice for fajitas, and a good bit of local chicken goes to fajitas. 

But I suppose now the producers will be jogging the chickens around the track and flinging them to make them fly to darken the breast meat. 

The flying chicken Can chickens fly SCRIPPY - YouTube


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## Addie (May 1, 2012)

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the humor in this clip. I think it borders on cruelty. And it goes to show just how dumb some chickens or roosters can be. It kept coming back for more.


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## Luca Lazzari (May 9, 2012)

I can assure you that in Italy we LOVE whole roasted chickens!

Il re dei polli allo spiedo - YouTube

polli alla brace in montagna - YouTube


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## taxlady (May 9, 2012)

I'm not from the Southern US, so to me those are whole barbecued chickens. We used to have that most Sundays in summer, when I was a kid.


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## jusnikki (May 16, 2012)

I certainly don't want the bigger breast. I know somethings been done to them to make them big. It reminds me of time I was purchasing chicken breast and all of them were huge. I called the butcher up and asked him did they have some smaller, average sized breast. He actually looked at me like I had two heads, lol. I joking said I know what yall do to those breast.......


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## Harry Cobean (May 16, 2012)

jusnikki said:


> I certainly don't want the bigger breast. I know somethings been done to them to make them big. It reminds me of time I was purchasing chicken breast and all of them were huge. I called the butcher up and asked him did they have some smaller, average sized breast. He actually looked at me like I had two heads, lol. I joking said I know what yall do to those breast.......


with you on that one nikki,small ones ARE more juicy!
harry


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## jusnikki (May 16, 2012)

Harry Cobean said:


> with you on that one nikki,small ones ARE more juicy!
> harry



LOL, yes they are. They giant ones are like shoe leather, seriously...


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## jusnikki (May 16, 2012)

Not that I've eaten shoe leather before....LOLOL!!


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## Harry Cobean (May 16, 2012)

jusnikki said:


> LOL, yes they are. They giant ones are like shoe leather, seriously...





jusnikki said:


> Not that I've eaten shoe leather before....LOLOL!!


me neither,not sunk me teeth into a giant breast for a while either..........


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## CharlieD (May 16, 2012)

The larger ones simply come from an older bird. The birds that are sold today en mass are at the most 3 month old. If you get a roaster it might be 6-8 month old, if you get a stewing hen it is probably about a year or so. Not sure what they do the older egg laying birds when they are done.


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## Bacardi1 (May 17, 2012)

CharlieD said:


> Not sure what they do the older egg laying birds when they are done.


 
After a year (or sometimes two, depending on the breed), commercial egg-layers, which really aren't good meat bird breeds (they're pretty scrawny meat-wise) are sold to processors of both soup/stock companies (Swanson's, Campbells', etc.) & pet food.


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## jusnikki (May 17, 2012)

Bacardi1 said:


> After a year (or sometimes two, depending on the breed), commercial egg-layers, which really aren't good meat bird breeds (they're pretty scrawny meat-wise) are _sold to processors of both soup/stock companies (Swanson's, Campbells', etc.) _& pet food.




For some reason that just doesn't sit well with me. 
Old, worn bird meat in soups.... lol. Oh well
guess I've eaten too much of it to worry about it now!


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## Bolas De Fraile (May 17, 2012)

Bacardi1 said:


> After a year (or sometimes two, depending on the breed), commercial egg-layers, which really aren't good meat bird breeds (they're pretty scrawny meat-wise) are sold to processors of both soup/stock companies (Swanson's, Campbells', etc.) & pet food.


or they are sold as boiling fowl, these fowl are prized in Jewish household for the production of soup.The classic Coq au vin uses an old knackered cock or if you cant get a cock bacardi a boiling fowl is just as good.


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## taxlady (May 17, 2012)

jusnikki said:


> For some reason that just doesn't sit well with me.
> Old, worn bird meat in soups.... lol. Oh well
> guess I've eaten too much of it to worry about it now!


It's full of flavour, especially compared to young birds.


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## Andy M. (May 17, 2012)

It take time for flavor to develop in an animal's flesh.  The chicken we buy in the markets in the US are barely a couple of months old.  The faster they reach selling weight, the more money for the producer.

On the other hand, if you keep a chicken around for longer as an egg layer, it matures and its flesh develops flavor.  On the other hand, the meat becomes tougher.

Traditionally, it's these older tougher birds that go into stews and soups.  Long slow stewing or braising that deals with the toughness while you benefit from their flavor.


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## Bacardi1 (May 18, 2012)

jusnikki said:


> For some reason that just doesn't sit well with me.
> Old, worn bird meat in soups.... lol. Oh well
> guess I've eaten too much of it to worry about it now!


 
Cross-my-heart-honest Jusnikki, "old worn bird meat" is absolutely PERFECT for soups, poultry stock, & stews.  That's exactly what they were used for back when everyone raised some chickens out back, & today as well, now that raising chickens is making a serious comeback.  The difference in flavor from making chicken soup from a young broiler/fryer & an old stewing hen or cockerel is amazing.


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## jusnikki (May 18, 2012)

I didn't realize that about older meat. So it marinates as ages huh?? LOL
Learn something new everyday....


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## Skittle68 (May 18, 2012)

Addie said:
			
		

> I'm sorry, but I fail to see the humor in this clip. I think it borders on cruelty. And it goes to show just how dumb some chickens or roosters can be. It kept coming back for more.



::shrug:: the bird keeps coming back, so she obviously isn't hurting him. Maybe he likes the feeling of flying- the way he comes running back reminds me of a kid who just got thrown into the pool running back yelling, "Do it again! Do it again!" lol


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## CharlieD (May 18, 2012)

At least couple times a year I make sure to get old chicken, or as they are calle din the store Soup Chicken, sounds much better, the flavor of that soup is so much better.


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## GLC (May 18, 2012)

CharlieD said:


> At least couple times a year I make sure to get old chicken, or as they are calle din the store Soup Chicken, sounds much better, the flavor of that soup is so much better.



That's unusual. Around here, only one or two local market farms offer stewing hens. And at least one organic egg farmer sells old layers with some egg production left as ultimate stewers. Cheap, but you have to do your own slaughter.


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## Hypnosis Changes Lives (May 18, 2012)

taxlady said:
			
		

> It's full of flavour, especially compared to young birds.



I agree the Flavour is intense.


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## CharlieD (Jun 15, 2012)

All this talk about "breasts" made me hungry for Chicken Kiev. I defrosted some chicken, gosh, last Thursday, cut the breasts of with the little bone, what is that bone called, the rest went into the soup. But only last night I was able to make the CK, thank G-d my refrigerator is almost as cold as a freezer. The whole family shared two pieces, thank G-d they were big enough. Because everybody wanted more. I served it with what I call "young potato" on a side and a tomato/cucumber salad. I take young potato, new crop, wash them really well, do not need to be pilled, cut in quarters, or smaller, I like bite size dice. Boil till ready, drain dredge with margarine (butter), sprinkle with grated garlic and chopped fresh dill. No amounts you can add as much or as little as you like. Sorry no picks, I was cooking on a fly had to finish before kids came from school, and they immediately devoured the whole thing.


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## Gravy Queen (Jun 15, 2012)

Charlie, that all just sounds divine.


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