# Bulk herbs and spices==Hello, help?



## vitauta

in honor of bulk foods week, my food delivery place is offering a sale on their newly expanded line of bulk organic herbs, spices, grains, etc. 

i have not bought herbs and spices in bulk before, but would like to take this opportunity to expand my limited 'spice rack', and perhaps replace some prehistoric and/or inferior spices with fresh ground/crushed/chopped organic product. 

here is a list of the spices i am considering:  (they are all priced at  $.20/Tbsp.) 
coriander, cumin seed, curry blend, ginger, parsley, rosemary, turmeric. 

1.  which of these spices is a good buy, or not?
2.   does it make sense to buy m/l than, say, 4Tbsp my first time out?
3.   should i be adding other common spices to my list e.g.--basil, oregano, thyme, paprika, garlic, chili, etc...
4.   what is the best type of container for my new spices?

if anyone is still with me after this long, convoluted query, i would appreciate whatever advice or suggestions you might have....


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## PrincessFiona60

Yes, that is a good price for the powders, a bit iffy on the herbs that are bulkier and weigh less.  They should be selling by pound, not tablespoon.
I only buy what I am going to use in a few weeks, no long term storage.
Yes, on the ground ones if you are going to be using them in the next few weeks.
Glass jars with tightly fitting lids. I emptied out my old spices and kept the jars.


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## vitauta

PrincessFiona60 said:


> Yes, that is a good price for the powders, a bit iffy on the herbs that are bulkier and weigh less.  They should be selling by pound, not tablespoon.
> I only buy what I am going to use in a few weeks, no long term storage.
> Yes, on the ground ones if you are going to be using them in the next few weeks.
> Glass jars with tightly fitting lids. I emptied out my old spices and kept the jars.



well, this is not good.  why can the ground spices not be kept for extended periods of time, like my other store brand spices and herbs, pf?


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## PrincessFiona60

Ground spices lose their volatile oils (flavor) quickly once ground.  They need to be kept in a cool dark place to keep them a bit longer.  Some you can coax back to life if you toast them lightly in a tiny bit of oil.  I still save money on spices, even buying them every few weeks.  Once I decide on what I am cooking, I list the spices I will need and go get them from the bulk bins.  The store I go to keeps an "open" date on their jars, so I can tell how long they have been on the shelf.  I then put the same open date on my jars with a grease pen.


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## Cooking Goddess

Actually, the Penzeys catalog has a column on page 3(?) that says you can keep spices for a year.  They reason that since the plants are processed only once during the year it's not necessary to replace properly stored herbs or spices more often than they are processed.  I store mine in glass bottles in a cupboard not over the stove and I've had great success with viable spices.  Even better, if I buy something in bulk at Penzeys (4 oz. or more bag) I keep it in its original bag down in the basement, away from windows or heat such as the furnace or hot water tank.  Whenever I fill the upstairs bottles I'm doing the "sniff test" and rarely have to pitch anything before it's used up.

If you feel like playing with numbers and weights you could always take a spice you have (say basil) and measure out how many tablespoons you get in an ounce, then use the price off the Penzeys website to compare to the local bulk store.

I'd say if it's a spice or herb you use frequently you probably won't go wrong with a good amount of that item.  Since you're expanding your palate we'd better see some interesting dinner plans showing up in the "What's for Dinner" threads early this week!


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## pacanis

I keep some of mine over a year without a noticeable flavor loss. When you buy in bulk to save on shipping you can only use them up so fast. Admittedly, the basil isn't what it used to be.

Sorry I can't help you out, Vit. Buying herbs and spices is always a task for me. I seem to get on a specific herb or spice kick and blow through the ones I should have bought more of while the others sit.


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## PrincessFiona60

I wish I had a Penzey's I could shop at.


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## CWS4322

I buy a lot of my spices at the Bulk Barn. Herbs I usually use fresh and keep pots of the herbs I use most often either on the deck in the summer or the house in the winter. I tend not to use a lot of dried herbs. I buy fresh herbs and dry those, but not large quantities.

Like PF, I buy what I will use in a reasonable amount of time (thyme?). I store fenugreek seeds in the freezer because they go rancid and I don't use fenugreek that often. Having said that, curry powder that includes fenugreek can also go off, so I would store it in the freezer except that I use up curry powder fairly quickly (a friend blends her own and shares with me).


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## GotGarlic

Hi, vit. Spices - seeds, berries, bark, etc. - will keep best whole, so I would buy cumin and dill seed, whole nutmeg, cinnamon sticks, etc. You can grind these in a spice grinder or dedicated coffee grinder as needed. Woody herbs dry well and the whole leaves maintain more flavor than powders - thyme, rosemary, sage, bay and oregano. I crumble these when I use them to release more flavor. Soft herbs like parsley and basil aren't worth the money when they're dried, imo. These I grow or buy fresh and freeze in ice cube trays when I have extra.

The only time I use dry ginger is in pumpkin pie. Otherwise, fresh ginger kept in a jar of sherry or rice vinegar will keep practically forever and has much better flavor.

Think in terms of the types of cuisine you like to make. If Mexican, get Mexican oregano, cumin and chili powder. If you make rubs or seasoning blends, get garlic and onion powder and other seasonings you want to include.

20 cents per tbsp. seems like a good deal, although a weird measurement. Glass jars with tight-fitting lids are the best way to keep them. My brother gave me a set of Penzey's herbs and spices for Christmas one year and I just recycle those jars and others I already had. I replace my herbs annually; spices I sometimes keep longer, depending on what they are, how they smell, and whether I have used much of them. Hope this helps.


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## taxlady

I find that cinnamon is really hard to grind to a fine powder, so I keep some ground cinnamon. I also keep the sticks.

I re-use spice jars. I also save small glass jars, like from Dijon and capers for herbs & spices.


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## pacanis

Caper jars, good call.


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## Kitchen Barbarian

You can shop Penzey's on line - https://www.penzeys.com/

Free shipping with $30 purchase.  I usually have trouble keeping it down to JUST $30, LOL!

However some spices such as cumin, coriander, etc can be had much more cheaply and just as fresh at an Indian grocery, should you have one near you.  Most mid-sized cities have at least one. Here's one online resource to find an Indian grocer near you:

India Grocery Stores in US, Indian Grocers in United States, USA, Video DVD Rentals, Desi Shop

Google for others.


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## Kitchen Barbarian

taxlady said:


> I re-use spice jars. I also save small glass jars, like from Dijon and capers for herbs & spices.



I used to love saving baby food jars, but the new ones don't have screw on lids anymore.  They have some weird plastic gasket and the lid basically presses on.  I don't trust them! I was sooo sad when I bought some baby food recently just to get the jars and discovered this!


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## GotGarlic

Penzey's sells empty jars, too: Spices at Penzeys Spices Glass Jars


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## Caslon

Tho harder to buy now, I use those Ziplock quart vacuum bags, fill it with bulk spice or herbs and then vacuum seal it, and store it in the fridge.


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## PrincessFiona60

I know all about Penzey's, I just don't use it up fast enough.  Buying what I need a few weeks at a time works for me.


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## Whiskadoodle

If you have a Whole Foods near you  check out their bulk herbs/ spices.  Prices per pound may look like a lot $$,  but you probably only need an ounce or less and then it's less than a dollar,  and far less than jarred spices in the grocery aisle and far more fresher.


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## Dawgluver

I'm a jar hoarder, save everything from mustard to caper jars.  What I like about Penzey's packaging is that you can easily peel the labels off their package and attach it to whatever jar you might use.


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## CharlieD

pacanis said:


> I keep some of mine over a year without a noticeable flavor loss. When you buy in bulk to save on shipping you can only use them up so fast. Admittedly, the basil isn't what it used to be.
> 
> Sorry I can't help you out, Vit. Buying herbs and spices is always a task for me. I seem to get on a specific herb or spice kick and blow through the ones I should have bought more of while the others sit.


 


+ 1. Applies to me too. I buy most of my herbs and spices in Sam's club in those big containers, here is a picture of one of them: http://www.samsclub.com/sams/mccormick-reg-ground-cinnamon-18-oz/155801.ip, using this just as an example. Some of the stuff I buy and use more, some has been seating on the shelf for a while. The stuff that I do not use a lot also means that I am not crazy about or simply not very accustom to it, so I do not notice the big difference from time to time I use it.


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## pacanis

I have a few of those big jars of spices. The town grocer had some and they were _very_ reasonable. 
I'm using red pepper, cumin and red pepper flakes from probably four-five years ago and just starting to get down towards the bottom of the jar, but they all still taste fine to me. Nothing using a bit more wouldn't fix anyway.
That probably means when I get around to needing more cumin to go easy on it, as it will be stronger than I am used to.


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## pacanis

Well sonofagun. I just returned from the town store and we now have a spice selection! They have a whole section, larger than their McCormick's area, with these http://nutmegspice.co/
They have the town store's name on them. I did not want to commit to a large bottle of powdered spice, but they had a great selection of dried items as well. Including potatoes, tomatoes, carrots... and porcini mushrooms!  Those I did buy. I bought 2-1oz jars at $4.99 a jar. That's like half the price of the ones I bought last week. Cool.


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## Mad Cook

vitauta said:


> in honor of bulk foods week, my food delivery place is offering a sale on their newly expanded line of bulk organic herbs, spices, grains, etc.
> 
> i have not bought herbs and spices in bulk before, but would like to take this opportunity to expand my limited 'spice rack', and perhaps replace some prehistoric and/or inferior spices with fresh ground/crushed/chopped organic product.
> 
> here is a list of the spices i am considering: (they are all priced at $.20/Tbsp.)
> coriander, cumin seed, curry blend, ginger, parsley, rosemary, turmeric.
> 
> 1. which of these spices is a good buy, or not?
> 2. does it make sense to buy m/l than, say, 4Tbsp my first time out?
> 3. should i be adding other common spices to my list e.g.--basil, oregano, thyme, paprika, garlic, chili, etc...
> 4. what is the best type of container for my new spices?
> 
> if anyone is still with me after this long, convoluted query, i would appreciate whatever advice or suggestions you might have....


It depends on how quickly you'll use them up. Herbs and spices do not keep indefinitely as they lose flavour. In fact 6 months is about the limit. 

As for storage, they need to be stored in small amounts in containers that exclude light completely and air as much as possible. Those pretty racks with clear glass jars that stand on your kitchen counter - or worse, on the window sill - are an absolute no-no.

The varieties you buy depend on what you like the taste of. Some herbs are not very good when dried eg parsley, coriander and basil. Mint changes its character so much that it's almost a different herb (dried mint is used in middle eastern cookery. Others, such as oregano, actually taste better to some people than fresh.


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## Mad Cook

GotGarlic said:


> Hi, vit. Spices - seeds, berries, bark, etc. - will keep best whole, so I would buy cumin and dill seed, whole nutmeg, cinnamon sticks, etc. You can grind these in a spice grinder or dedicated coffee grinder as needed. Woody herbs dry well and the whole leaves maintain more flavor than powders - thyme, rosemary, sage, bay and oregano. I crumble these when I use them to release more flavor. Soft herbs like parsley and basil aren't worth the money when they're dried, imo. These I grow or buy fresh and freeze in ice cube trays when I have extra.
> 
> QUOTE]
> And peppercorns too.
> 
> And coriander leaf (cilantro, sorry)and chervil don't dry well either


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## Kitchen Barbarian

I've wondered at dried chives as well.  Dried cilantro (coriander leaf) is totally useless; so is dried curry leaf.


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## Dawgluver

Yes.  Dried chives taste like straw.  Frozen chives are better, fresh are best.  Even better to imitate chive flavor is frozen, chopped green onion, they actually keep their flavor.  Dried basil is a waste, I dig my basil up and put them in a semi-sunny window and over winter them.  They look ratty as all getout, but provide me with nice fresh leaves.


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## CWS4322

pacanis said:


> Well sonofagun. I just returned from the town store and we now have a spice selection! They have a whole section, larger than their McCormick's area, with these http://nutmegspice.co/
> They have the town store's name on them. I did not want to commit to a large bottle of powdered spice, but they had a great selection of dried items as well. Including potatoes, tomatoes, carrots... and porcini mushrooms!  Those I did buy. I bought 2-1oz jars at $4.99 a jar. That's like half the price of the ones I bought last week. Cool.


Stale herbs/spices can be tossed on the coals when you are bbq'ing for added flavour. Just sayin'.


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## Cooking Goddess

Kitchen Barbarian said:


> I've wondered at dried chives as well.  Dried cilantro (coriander leaf) is totally useless; so is dried curry leaf.


Actually, I bought a small jar of dried chives the last time I was at Penzeys.  I've had the plant on my kitchen windowsill but it wimps out on me quickly.  When I buy it in the produce section I don't use it up fast enough and end up throwing half of it out.  I figured it'd give the smallest jar a chance.  I was pretty surprised at how much they were like fresh chives once they are in the liquid/cream and have a chance to reconstitute themselves.  Not cheap initially but when I consider what I've paid for the stuff I've thrown out the Penzeys chives should be winners.


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## pacanis

Interesting thought, CW. Maybe I'll try that with the basil I have


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## taxlady

Cooking Goddess said:


> Actually, I bought a small jar of dried chives the last time I was at Penzeys.  I've had the plant on my kitchen windowsill but it wimps out on me quickly.  When I buy it in the produce section I don't use it up fast enough and end up throwing half of it out.  I figured it'd give the smallest jar a chance.  I was pretty surprised at how much they were like fresh chives once they are in the liquid/cream and have a chance to reconstitute themselves.  Not cheap initially but when I consider what I've paid for the stuff I've thrown out the Penzeys chives should be winners.


I haven't tried dried chives. I have chives growing in my yard. About this time of year, I cut them all the way back. I parblanch them for a few seconds and then let them dry and freeze them. I cut off as much as I need still frozen. They are a bit limp, but work fine. So, a bit finely chopped on a baked potato, or in a sauce is just fine. In a salad, not so much.

Why don't you plant some? They love a cold climate with a really cold winter. I have some in a pot, so I will bring them in and see how they do in the house. Never tried that before. The rest stay outside.


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## CharlieD

Kitchen Barbarian said:


> I've wondered at dried chives as well. Dried cilantro (coriander leaf) is totally useless; so is dried curry leaf.


 
It is actually interesting, because dried parsley, for example, is just fine, but you are right dried cylantro is total junk.


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## GotGarlic

taxlady said:


> I haven't tried dried chives. I have chives growing in my yard. About this time of year, I cut them all the way back. I parblanch them for a few seconds and then let them dry and freeze them. I cut off as much as I need still frozen. They are a bit limp, but work fine. So, a bit finely chopped on a baked potato, or in a sauce is just fine. In a salad, not so much.
> 
> Why don't you plant some? They love a cold climate with a really cold winter. I have some in a pot, so I will bring them in and see how they do in the house. Never tried that before. The rest stay outside.



Chives seem to like all kinds of weather. We don't always get a frost here, so my chives and usually parsley are available fresh all winter. The chives get these beautiful big lavender-colored flowers in the spring.


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## taxlady

GotGarlic said:


> Chives seem to like all kinds of weather. We don't always get a frost here, so my chives and usually parsley are available fresh all winter. The chives get these beautiful big lavender-colored flowers in the spring.


Interesting. One of our members who lives in SoCal has never been able to grow them. Mine come back every year, after a very cold winter. I once found some chives growing in a field that hadn't been cultivated in over 20 years.

Yup, those flowers are very pretty. They are fun to put in salads.


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## jennyema

taxlady said:


> Interesting. One of our members who lives in SoCal has never been able to grow them. Mine come back every year, after a very cold winter. I once found some chives growing in a field that hadn't been cultivated in over 20 years.
> 
> Yup, those flowers are very pretty. They are fun to put in salads.



Chives and mint are crazy hardy.  One mint plant of mine is now in my garden and in 3 neighbors' yards.  I have to constantly weed it out.

I grew chives in a planter from the seeds on the pretty flowers 

I love chives and will bring it indoors and try to keep it alive.


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## Dawgluver

I have most all my mints planted in pots sunk in the ground, but still have the occasional escapee.  My lemon balm is everywhere (mint relative).  My chives are in a big raised bed, I throw the dried seed heads into the pine grove, and have a lot of chive children, they do really well in a cold climate.


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## taxlady

jennyema said:


> Chives and mint are crazy hardy.  One mint plant of mine is now in my garden and in 3 neighbors' yards.  I have to constantly weed it out.
> 
> I grew chives in a planter from the seeds on the pretty flowers
> 
> I love chives and will bring it indoors and try to keep it alive.


How well did that work, keeping them alive indoors?


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## GotGarlic

taxlady said:


> Interesting. One of our members who lives in SoCal has never been able to grow them.



The climate may be too dry for them there. Sometimes even extra watering doesn't help. Some plants need more humid air to thrive.


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## Cooking Goddess

taxlady said:


> ................Why don't you plant some? They love a cold climate with a really cold winter. I have some in a pot, so I will bring them in and see how they do in the house. Never tried that before. The rest stay outside.


I really have no good place to put a herb garden.  Our house is raised up so much in the front to try and get around our grade (our driveway is steep enough that it is now out-of-code; new homes are not built unless the driveway grade is under 10%) that we have just bushes and a tree out front.  Our back door out of the add-on sunroom is a 3-foot-drop because we never could decide on the design of the new deck.  We'll put a basic rectangle on in the spring, but it doesn't matter.  Back and one side are heavily treed and/or shaded.  Only the south side of the house gets garden-type light, but I have to walk halfway around the house to get to it.  I was absolutely ruined in our first home.  Colonial style, garage was forward of the facade, and a sidewalk from the drive to the front porch formed a rectangular garden about 5 X 8 right off the front porch.  From the sidewalk you stepped up one level to the porch, then one outside step and boom, second step up was the threshold. *sigh*  I'd sit in my porch rocker on a rainy day and smell all the herbs.  Next home will have a flat yard again, and you can bet I'll be looking for that perfect "herb garden" setting.


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## pacanis

When I mow the yard there is an area where I smell mint.
I guess that means I have an herb garden somewhere


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## acerbicacid

I buy whole spices too and then grind them.   If you have an old jar of, lets say cumin, and you grind some cumin seeds, the difference in the smell is amazing.

If I do keep things in jars (and in the dark) and there is airspace in the jar I use a scrunched up piece of cling film/saran wrap(?) to fill the gap and keep it as airtight as possible.


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## jennyema

taxlady said:


> How well did that work, keeping them alive indoors?



It's this winter's experiment.

I'm not good at indoor gardening so keep your fingers crossed !


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## taxlady

jennyema said:


> It's this winter's experiment.
> 
> I'm not good at indoor gardening so keep your fingers crossed !




It's my winter experiment too. And I'm not such a great indoor gardener either. I'll keep my fingers crossed for both of us.


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