# When milk isn't milk



## blissful (Jul 19, 2018)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/nu...ing-down-on-almond-milk/ar-AAAiqMH?li=BBnb7Kz


So if the FDA cracks down on non-dairy types of 'milk', and needs to find another name for it besides 'milk', what should it be called?


Almond milk, Soy milk, Rice milk.....none of these are milks, so what to call them?


----------



## roadfix (Jul 19, 2018)

juice?


----------



## Caslon (Jul 19, 2018)

Coconut milk?


----------



## Caslon (Jul 19, 2018)

The milk of human kindness?


----------



## Caslon (Jul 19, 2018)

My mother breast fed me, but I don't recall it.


----------



## blissful (Jul 19, 2018)

That had me laughing. Good answers!


----------



## Andy M. (Jul 19, 2018)

This is a pet peeve of mine. Just because it's a white liquid doesn't mean you can call it milk.

How about calling it, "Indeterminate Liquid Flavored with Nuts or Other Stuff" ILFNOS for short.

Not sure if you can believe this but somewhere I saw that a half-gallon of almond 'milk' contains about 2-3 almonds worth of content. Not sure what the rest of the stuff in the carton is.


----------



## jennyema (Jul 19, 2018)

blissful said:


> https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/nu...ing-down-on-almond-milk/ar-AAAiqMH?li=BBnb7Kz
> 
> 
> So if the FDA cracks down on non-dairy types of 'milk', and needs to find another name for it besides 'milk', what should it be called?




Its not just non-dairy "milks," is anything but COW's milk.  So goat milk and sheep's milk wount be able to be called "milk," even though that's literally what it is.


----------



## blissful (Jul 19, 2018)

Milk of Magnesia....will they have to change that too? Milk duds?


----------



## salt and pepper (Jul 19, 2018)

I call it putting dairy farmers out of business!


----------



## GotGarlic (Jul 19, 2018)

Non-dairy vegetarian drink.

Most of the rest of the ingredients are water and sweetener. 

The proposal should be changed to include milks from any lactating animal.

No one confuses dairy milk with Milk of Magnesia or Milk Duds, so there's no need to change those. The slippery slope is a logical fallacy.


----------



## msmofet (Jul 20, 2018)

GG I agree about animal milk.  

How about Non-dairy “milk” replacement drink.


----------



## JustJoel (Jul 20, 2018)

Surimi is a crab substitute and is frequently labeled or presented as “krab.” So why not some alternate spelling, like “milque?”


----------



## Sir_Loin_of_Beef (Jul 20, 2018)

The label plainly STATES "CONTAINS NO MILK."  It should also state "CONTAINS NO MUSCLE, EITHER!"


----------



## CakePoet (Jul 20, 2018)

But if it has milk proteins, in Sweden it does contain milk since milk proteins is part of the milk... Muscle milk sound discussing.

Yeah, weird  some lactose milk products are not allowed to be label milk but milkdrink... so soy milk should be soydrink in my world.


----------



## Mad Cook (Jul 20, 2018)

jennyema said:


> Its not just non-dairy "milks," is anything but COW's milk. So goat milk and sheep's milk wount be able to be called "milk," even though that's literally what it is.


So will they be banning the word for that stuff the baby drinks when it's breast fed?


There are so many things that the US government should be turning it's attention to and it's wittering about this! Even the EU isn't so stupid as to get onto this bandwagon.


----------



## GotGarlic (Jul 20, 2018)

Mad Cook said:


> So will they be banning the word for that stuff the baby drinks when it's breast fed?


Why would they do that? 



Mad Cook said:


> There are so many things that the US government should be turning it's attention to and it's wittering about this! Even the EU isn't so stupid as to get onto this bandwagon.



You are mistaken. 
EU court bans dairy-style names for soya and tofu


> Plant-based foods cannot be sold in the European Union using terms such as milk, butter and cheese, the European Court of Justice has ruled.


----------



## Rascal (Jul 20, 2018)

Soy milk or almond milk..... I've never seen an almond nut or soy bean with a nipple.

Russ


----------



## RPCookin (Jul 21, 2018)

salt and pepper said:


> I call it putting dairy farmers out of business!



How so?  Changing the name of "Soy milk" doesn't change the need for real cow's milk.  Dairy will still be dairy.  And I feel that any milk that comes from a teat is real milk.  

When it's manufactured from various vegetable products, it's not milk.


----------



## Just Cooking (Jul 21, 2018)

+1.... 



It seems that so many things are renamed these days..
Milk is milk.. Other products are not milk..


well...maybe "milkweed"...   


Ross


----------



## buckytom (Jul 21, 2018)

Legalize Milkweed Now!


----------



## Just Cooking (Jul 22, 2018)

buckytom said:


> Legalize Milkweed Now!


----------



## CakePoet (Jul 22, 2018)

Milkweed leafs was made into  fake tea and sold as  Indian or Chinese tea...


----------



## rodentraiser (Jul 23, 2018)

Then they better change the name of skim milk, too. There's no milk in that stuff, either.


----------



## JustJoel (Jul 23, 2018)

rodentraiser said:


> Then they better change the name of skim milk, too. There's no milk in that stuff, either.


I thought all that’s taken out of milk to make it “skim” is fat. Is fat what makes milk milk?


----------



## Cooking Goddess (Jul 24, 2018)

What makes milk milk? Well *JJ*, if you want to find out all about milk, I found some bedtime reading for you! 
*The Chemistry of Milk*

You're right about skim milk being raw milk with the fat removed. Here's a little bit from "TheKitchn" about how dairies accomplish that:
*How Is Skim Milk Made?*

In my opinion, commercial skim milk is on par with soda pop. Sure it has fewer calories than whole milk (90 compared to about 145), but the sugar and sodium levels are higher in the skim milk. Add to it that it tastes like nothing - unless you get it directly from a farm. I used to buy both skim and 2% from a local farm. The skim was very tasty and had a real milk flavor, while the 2% seemed more like whole milk - but it wasn't. Just had a wonderful flavor. Sadly, they no longer bottle their own processed milk. Rather, it is blended with milk from other dairy farms and doesn't taste anywhere near as good. Sadly, the nearest dairy with their own tasty milk is a 26-mile drive...one way!


----------



## Mad Cook (Jul 24, 2018)

Over here non-animal is often called "milk" with a prefix stating it's origin, eg "soy milk" or "almond milk", etc.. because the ingredients have to be displayed on the packaging. Goats' milk is labelled as such too but, as it is more expensive than cows' milk, very  few people would be confused. I have my (cows') milk delivered to my doorstep in one pint (Imperial measurement - 20 fluid ounces) glass bottles. Eat your hearts out those of you who have to traipse to the supermarket. 

After years of living with supermarket milk I no longer get up in the morning and find no milk in the 'fridge for my "cuppa" because flat-mate/house-sharer has used the last - there'll be a pint on the doorstep, ready and waiting for me. My milkman also delivers bread and other essentials, to order, as well as milk products. The milk comes from local farms and hasn't been collected at depots all round the country as supermarket milk often has been. All milk sold in shops and by milk delivery is pasteurised or sterilised or "long-life". You can still buy untreated milk but it's pretty rare. It can only be sold at the farm gate and the standard is very carefully monitored under Health & Safety rules.

Milk deliveries in one pint glass bottles were such an issue that, when we went over to metric measurements, milk was allowed to retain it's "pint"  status despite EU rules. As were beer and cider (sold in pints and half pints in pubs) and miles on direction boards and speed limits, etc.


----------



## Mad Cook (Jul 24, 2018)

buckytom said:


> Legalize Milkweed Now!


 
Why? According to the US Fish and Wildlife Service it isn't illegal to have it growing on your land and the US Department of Agriculture is encouraging farmers and ranchers to plant it.


It's essential to the survival of the endangered Monarch butterfly.


----------



## Just Cooking (Jul 24, 2018)

Mad Cook said:


> Why? According to the US Fish and Wildlife Service it isn't illegal to have it growing on your land and the US Department of Agriculture is encouraging farmers and ranchers to plant it.
> 
> 
> It's essential to the survival of the endangered Monarch butterfly.


 I do believe that BT was making a joke..  
Ross


----------



## JustJoel (Jul 24, 2018)

Mad Cook said:


> Over here non-animal is often called "milk" with a prefix stating it's origin, eg "soy milk" or "almond milk", etc.. because the ingredients have to be displayed on the packaging. Goats' milk is labelled as such too but, as it is more expensive than cows' milk, very  few people would be confused. I have my (cows') milk delivered to my doorstep in one pint (Imperial measurement - 20 fluid ounces) glass bottles. Eat your hearts out those of you who have to traipse to the supermarket.
> 
> After years of living with supermarket milk I no longer get up in the morning and find no milk in the 'fridge for my "cuppa" because flat-mate/house-sharer has used the last - there'll be a pint on the doorstep, ready and waiting for me. My milkman also delivers bread and other essentials, to order, as well as milk products. The milk comes from local farms and hasn't been collected at depots all round the country as supermarket milk often has been. All milk sold in shops and by milk delivery is pasteurised or sterilised or "long-life". You can still buy untreated milk but it's pretty rare. It can only be sold at the farm gate and the standard is very carefully monitored under Health & Safety rules.
> 
> Milk deliveries in one pint glass bottles were such an issue that, when we went over to metric measurements, milk was allowed to retain it's "pint"  status despite EU rules. As were beer and cider (sold in pints and half pints in pubs) and miles on direction boards and speed limits, etc.


When I was very young, we used to have a milkman. It was kinda cool. He didn’t deliver anything but dairy products though. If Mom needed an extra quart of milk or a pint of cottage cheese, she’d leave a note in one of the used empty bottles that she’d set out on the porch every night for collection. Automatic recycling!

The milkman (not ours, just generally) also had quite a reputation as a roue, and was the punchline in many bawdy jokes. Jokes that, once hearing them, Millenials will get a puzzled look on their face and say “milkman???”  Oy vey!


----------



## Mad Cook (Jul 24, 2018)

rodentraiser said:


> Then they better change the name of skim milk, too. There's no milk in that stuff, either.


Of course it is. All that is removed is the cream.


----------



## Mad Cook (Jul 24, 2018)

JustJoel said:


> When I was very young, we used to have a milkman. It was kinda cool. He didn’t deliver anything but dairy products though. If Mom needed an extra quart of milk or a pint of cottage cheese, she’d leave a note in one of the used empty bottles that she’d set out on the porch every night for collection. Automatic recycling!
> 
> The milkman (not ours, just generally) also had quite a reputation as a roue, and was the punchline in many bawdy jokes. Jokes that, once hearing them, Millenials will get a puzzled look on their face and say “milkman???” Oy vey!


I think the philandering milkman is an urban legend in every country that ever had doorstep deliveries. A while back we had a milk lady. Her husband broke his leg so she was filling in for him.


----------



## rodentraiser (Jul 26, 2018)

JustJoel said:


> I thought all that’s taken out of milk to make it “skim” is fat. Is fat what makes milk milk?



All I know is when I accidentally bought a small carton of skim milk, I poured it out and thought I had water. I'm used to using whole milk and even the color of skim milk didn't look like milk.


----------



## Andy M. (Jul 26, 2018)

I get a kick out of the fat phobics who demonize whole milk, insisting on skim, or reduced fat milks. 

Any other food that was labeled as being 96% FAT FREE. Would be the first choice of people watching their fat intake.


----------



## Mad Cook (Jul 27, 2018)

Andy M. said:


> I get a kick out of the fat phobics who demonize whole milk, insisting on skim, or reduced fat milks.
> 
> Any other food that was labeled as being 96% FAT FREE. Would be the first choice of people watching their fat intake.


I'm not "fat phobic" - chaq'un a son gout". I use semi-skimmed because I prefer it. Full-cream milk is vile in tea. 

Oddly, I like cream when it's separated from the milk!

I use full cream milk for custard, rice pudd, soups and béchamel sauce, etc., where it's "diluted" by the rest of the ingredients. I don't drink milk on its own as I don't like it.

In the days, pre-homogenisation, when the cream sat on the top of the milk, my Grandmother (the Farmer's daughter) insisted that the first cup of tea of the day had to have the "top of the milk", ie the cream, in it. because it was good for you. She may have been right as she lived to 89 with the sharpest brain I've ever known!

These are the official levels of fat in milk sold in UK.
 Butterfat contentUK Terminology5.0%_Channel Island milk_ or _breakfast milk_[14]3.6%_Whole milk_ or _full fat milk_[15]1.5–1.8%_Semi-skimmed milk_[16]1%_1% milk_Less than 0.3%_Skimmed milk_[16]

I have to say that I've never come across "1% milk". I suppose it might be used in industrial-sized food production.


----------



## di reston (Jul 27, 2018)

There are many uses for milk:

Just listen to Youtube:" Ernie, he drove the fastest milk cart in the west"


It's hilarious - you don't always have to be serious about food!

di reston


Enough is never as good as a feast    Oscar Wilde


----------



## Andy M. (Jul 27, 2018)

Mad Cook said:


> I'm not "fat phobic" - chaq'un a son gout". I use semi-skimmed because I prefer it. Full-cream milk is vile in tea...
> 
> I have to say that I've never come across "1% milk". I suppose it might be used in industrial-sized food production.



I never said you were fat phobic.  

Here in the US, milk is sold as skim - less than 0.5% fat; 1% fat; 2% fat and whole milk - 3.6% fat.

My point was that some demonize whole milk at less than 4% fat content when they would consider other foods with 4% fat content as low fat and therefore desirable.

That said, "to each his own"


----------



## GotGarlic (Jul 27, 2018)

I came across a discussion of this topic that includes farmers, dairy owners, dieticians, scientists and others interested in the food industry. Apparently one of the problems with calling nut drinks "milk" is that many consumers believe that they are equivalent in nutrition to dairy milk and they're not. That can be a problem for parents of growing children who need high-quality protein and calcium.


----------



## taxlady (Jul 29, 2018)

https://memestatic.fjcdn.com/large/pictures/5a/14/5a1440_6373748.jpg


----------



## GotGarlic (Jul 29, 2018)




----------



## CakePoet (Jul 29, 2018)

Milk in Sweden is mjölk  , how ever mjölke is fish sperm..


----------



## Andy M. (Jul 29, 2018)

CakePoet said:


> Milk in Sweden is mjölk  , how ever mjölke is fish sperm..



Will I find it on the dairy shelf next to the milk?


----------



## RPCookin (Jul 29, 2018)

Then come folks like me who have to have their milk lactose free.  In my late 20's (around 1975) I developed a lactose intolerance that forced me to give up milk almost entirely.  Since so many good things are made with milk, I was a happy camper when they finally invented milk that I could use again.


----------



## JustJoel (Jul 29, 2018)

RPCookin said:


> Then come folks like me who have to have their milk lactose free.  In my late 20's (around 1975) I developed a lactose intolerance that forced me to give up milk almost entirely.  Since so many good things are made with milk, I was a happy camper when they finally invented milk that I could use again.


Lactose free milk is definitely a triumph of science for people with lactose intolerance, but I’m wondering, are there other dairy products that are lactose free? Cheese? Yogurt? Sour cream? I haven’t seen anything on the supermarket shelves, but I haven’t been looking.

When I was very young, three or four, my doctor posited that my allergy symptoms might be milk-related, and restricted my milk intake to skim milk. That’s consequently the only milk I can drink, although I use whole milk in cooking. And milkshakes. Turns out milk had nothing to do with my symptoms, though.


----------



## blissful (Jul 29, 2018)

When cheese is made, the milk is heated a little, then cultures are added. The cultures eat the lactose in the course of making the cheese. Then they continue to do their job as the cheese ages. So long aged cheeses don't have much lactose in them.
https://lifehacker.com/the-best-cheeses-to-eat-if-youre-lactose-intolerant-1563386663


----------



## CakePoet (Jul 29, 2018)

No Mjölke is at the fish dish... but yeah  it gives people a problem when they dont talk Swedish. 

In Sweden we have lactose free  butter ( even if that low lactose by nature), cream cheese, yogurt, filmilk,  sour cream, creme fraiche, buttermilk, cottage cheese, ice cream, cream and so much more.   Cheese if aged 6 months and not injected with whey or milk sugar ( lactose) is  lactose free.


----------



## Andy M. (Jul 29, 2018)

JJ I’ve seen ads for lactose free ice cream.


----------



## Rascal (Jul 29, 2018)

Talking of sperm, ( not me ) ambergris, lol.

Russ


----------



## JustJoel (Jul 29, 2018)

Andy M. said:


> JJ I’ve seen ads for lactose free ice cream.


Now that I think of it, so have I!


----------



## msmofet (Jul 29, 2018)

Rascal said:


> Talking of sperm, ( not me ) ambergris, lol.
> 
> Russ



am·ber·gris
ˈambərˌɡris,ˈambərˌɡrē(s)/Submit
noun
a waxlike substance that originates as a secretion in the intestines of the sperm whale, found floating in tropical seas and used in perfume manufacture.
ambergris – sometimes referred to as “whale vomit”

Perfume made with (expensive) ambergris doesn’t bother me. 

Perfume made from flowers cause my allergies to go wild.


----------



## Rocklobster (Jul 29, 2018)

Another example how the industry is trying to boost its image by associating itself with animal by products..if animal by products are so bad, then why use terms and comparisons that are common in these types of products..veggie burgers, veggie dogs, veggie bacon, almond milk, vegan chicken, the list goes on..


----------



## msmofet (Jul 29, 2018)

Rocklobster said:


> Another example how the industry is trying to boost its image by associating itself with animal by products..if animal by products are so bad, then why use terms and comparisons that are common in these types of products..veggie burgers, veggie dogs, veggie bacon, almond milk, vegan chicken, the list goes on..



I agree 100%. I never understood why if you don’t want to eat animal products why name food after animal products. Why do you want imitation food to taste like meat if animal food products repulse you?


----------



## CakePoet (Jul 30, 2018)

It is to prove to us meat eater that veggie food is just like our food and  taste just the same, also some want to have the meatflavour but not eating animals...  So far I have never been fooled by fake meat.


----------



## Mad Cook (Jul 30, 2018)

msmofet said:


> I agree 100%. I never understood why if you don’t want to eat animal products why name food after animal products. Why do you want imitation food to taste like meat if animal food products repulse you?


 So what would you call a veggie burger if you don't want to call it a burger?

If the manufacturers don't use "milk" on the side of the carton of soya milk what are they going to call it? "A white liquid made from soya as a substitute for milk, which you can put into your tea and coffee and you can use for drinking neat and you can use on cereal and in baking and feed to your children and your cat as well as other animals" ? Oops! That includes the forbidden word!

Stop being silly. Americans keep going on about living in the land of the free - behave like it. No vegetarian is going to hold your nose and force feed you to drink artificial "milk". Live and let live.

(Actually, I don't know whether cats can digest soya milk)


----------



## GotGarlic (Jul 30, 2018)

Mad Cook said:


> So what would you call a veggie burger if you don't want to call it a burger?



There's a word for that that pre-dates fake burgers - veggie patties. 



Mad Cook said:


> If the manufacturers don't use "milk" on the side of the carton of soya milk what are they going to call it? "A white liquid made from soya as a substitute for milk, which you can put into your tea and coffee and you can use for drinking neat and you can use on cereal and in baking and feed to your children and your cat as well as other animals" ? Oops! That includes the forbidden word!



Wow, you built a great straw man there! [emoji38]   

Clearly marketing is not your forté. "Non-dairy drink" works just fine. Again, the issue is that calling these things milk and situating them with the dairy products gives the impression that they have the same nutritional value as dairy and they don't. 



Mad Cook said:


> Stop being silly.



Stop being bossy. 



Mad Cook said:


> Americans keep going on about living in the land of the free - behave like it. No vegetarian is going to hold your nose and force feed you to drink artificial "milk". Live and let live.



Reminder - the EU did this last year.



> Soy milk? You can't call it milk, says the EU: Order to rename dairy substitutes because they do not contain produce from an animal.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4605566/Soy-milk-t-call-milk-says-EU-court-justice.html


----------



## msmofet (Jul 30, 2018)

GotGarlic said:


> There's a word for that that pre-dates fake burgers - veggie patties.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Mad Cook said:


> So what would you call a veggie burger if you don't want to call it a burger?
> 
> If the manufacturers don't use "milk" on the side of the carton of soya milk what are they going to call it? "A white liquid made from soya as a substitute for milk, which you can put into your tea and coffee and you can use for drinking neat and you can use on cereal and in baking and feed to your children and your cat as well as other animals" ? Oops! That includes the forbidden word!
> 
> ...



I think GG answered that quite nicely.


----------



## GotGarlic (Jul 30, 2018)

msmofet said:


> I think GG answered that quite nicely.


Thank you, msmofet.


----------



## Caslon (Aug 1, 2018)

JustJoel said:


> When I was very young, we used to have a milkman. It was kinda cool.



Sparkletts Water in my area just took over my local bottled company that used to exchange cases of bottled water containers you  put out for the delivery man  every couple of weeks. For the last 40 years with me.   No longer.  Just too costly. Sign of the times. Now they offer only plastic containers of water, delivered, that afterwards, you either throw in the trash or re-cycle.

Try and remember that I live in an area that has treated city water, and that I cannot stand to drink that stuff, tho not "harmful."


----------



## Andy M. (Aug 1, 2018)

Our town water is healthful to drink but the mineral flavor is not pleasant. As a result we buy gallon jugs of spring water at the supermarket for $0.50 each. We use it for drinking and coffee/tea.


----------



## caseydog (Aug 1, 2018)

Comedian _Lewis Black_ says, _"There's no such thing as soy milk. It's soy juice. But they couldn't sell soy juice, so they called it soy milk. Because anytime you say soy juice, you actually... start to gag. And they put Soy Milk in with my moo-cow milk, and it doesn't belong there, because we all know there's no such thing as soy milk 'cause there's no soy teat, is there?"_

CD


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 1, 2018)

So, with all this talk about “milk” from from nuts that have no teats, I’ve gotta wonder; do any of you use these nut milks in any capacity? Do you prefer one brand over another? I’ve been using coconut “milk” for a few weeks now, in my milkshakes and smoothies. The coconut flavor is negligible and the creamy texture is very nice. So far, I’ve only sampled the store brand, which was a bit watery, and Silk, which I’ve found to be creamier and richer than the store brand. I only use the canned stuff in recipes, and haven’t found one I really like yet. I must say, though, that the refrigerated Silk really makes a good milkshake!


----------



## caseydog (Aug 1, 2018)

Uh oh, GG is using words like Straw-man and Fallacy to rub the nose of another member in something -- I don't know why, and don't care.

But, I've lost interest in the subject now. 

CD


----------

