# Garbanzo Bean Flour



## blissful (Feb 14, 2017)

Having read about dried legumes and that uncooked legumes can be poisonous but the poison is dissipated upon cooking in boiling water for 10-20 minutes.

My question is which legumes? Are garbanzo beans (chick peas) also dangerous to eat raw? Are they considered a legume?

I noodled around on the internet and couldn't find a good answer. I did find that the cooking of legumes must be in boiling water and cannot be 'toasted' or 'dry heated' to make them safe. 

Now garbanzo bean flour is sold, and no mention of this on the package, which leaves me wondering about it. Does anyone know any answers to this? Thanks in advance, Bliss


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## CraigC (Feb 14, 2017)

Is what you read stating that cooking in boiling water destroys the toxin? I can't imagine that if they are cooked in water that the toxin wouldn't still be present in the cooking liquid, unless it was drained off and the legumes were rinsed.


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## blissful (Feb 14, 2017)

Eating Raw Or Undercooked Beans Is Dangerous - Wild Oats


> Beans contain a compound called lectin. Lectins are glycoproteins  that are present in a wide variety of commonly-consumed plant foods.  Some are not harmful, but the lectins found in undercooked and raw beans  are toxic.


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## blissful (Feb 15, 2017)

There must be someone here that has some knowledge of legumes and the potential hazards of cooking with them? Am I missing some basic knowledge here? 

Garbanzo beans (legumes?) flour, is to my knowledge, uncooked. Is there any hazard with that?


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## GotGarlic (Feb 15, 2017)

blissful said:


> There must be someone here that has some knowledge of legumes and the potential hazards of cooking with them? Am I missing some basic knowledge here?
> 
> Garbanzo beans (legumes?) flour, is to my knowledge, uncooked. Is there any hazard with that?


I think the fact that you haven't received an answer shows that you're not missing any common knowledge [emoji2] Eating raw chickpeas or chickpea flour is not very common in the United States, as far as I know. 

I found this here http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=58

"If purchasing chickpea (garbanzo bean) flour, more generally available in ethnic food stores, make sure that it is made from beans that have been cooked since in their raw form, they contain a substance that is hard to digest and can produce flatulence." 

From the same page, yes, chickpeas are legumes. You could call the manufacturer to find out whether the flour is made from raw or cooked chickpeas.


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## blissful (Feb 15, 2017)

Hey GG, yeah, the package (Bob's Red Mill) doesn't specify if the flour is made from raw or cooked garbanzo beans. I wrote them asking that particular question. I'm sure they'll get right back to me. (as they are a good company from all I hear)

Did you ever notice people making falafels use cooked beans, or sometimes just soaked beans, then the falafels are fried for a fairly short time. This leaves me believing that there isn't a risk in using uncooked garbanzo beans. This is the opposite (almost) of there being a toxic risk. 

I still feel like 'I don't know."


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## GotGarlic (Feb 15, 2017)

I have never watched anybody make falafel 

Let me ask you this: Are you going to eat the chickpea flour raw? If you cook whatever you make with it, I would think that would make it safe, if it wasn't made from already cooked beans.


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## blissful (Feb 15, 2017)

Well the information on toxicity in beans is fixed with 10-20 minutes cooking in boiling water. Dry cooking or heating doesn't do the same thing.

Am I eating it raw, no. But let's say you want to use it in a pancake, is cooking it dry 3 to 4 minutes enough to change it sufficiently? I really don't know.


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## blissful (Feb 15, 2017)

Here is their reply, and prompt too!


> [FONT=&quot]Thanks for contacting us about this. The Garbanzo Beans used in our flour are raw.[/FONT]
> [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
> [FONT=&quot]If you have any other questions please feel free to reach out.[/FONT]
> [FONT=&quot]Thanks and have a wonderful day![/FONT]
> ...


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## GotGarlic (Feb 15, 2017)

blissful said:


> Well the information on toxicity in beans is fixed with 10-20 minutes cooking in boiling water. Dry cooking or heating doesn't do the same thing.
> 
> Am I eating it raw, no. But let's say you want to use it in a pancake, is cooking it dry 3 to 4 minutes enough to change it sufficiently? I really don't know.


I don't know either. Glad you got your answer from Bob's, though.


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## Suthseaxa (Feb 16, 2017)

As a chemist, I can say that boiling probably degrades the toxins in beans rather than just cooking out into the liquid. I have used the cooking liquor from kidney beans, for example, in sauces and never had any troubles. It's not the lectins that are the problem, it's haemagglutinin. I'll have to research the decomposition temperate, but I recall that they are not good to be cooked from raw in a slow cooker as it does not reach the required temperature.

I also make falafel with raw chickpeas and use chickpea flour often with no side-effects whatsoever. Feel free to use them!


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## Mad Cook (Feb 17, 2017)

blissful said:


> Having read about dried legumes and that uncooked legumes can be poisonous but the poison is dissipated upon cooking in boiling water for 10-20 minutes.
> 
> My question is which legumes? Are garbanzo beans (chick peas) also dangerous to eat raw? Are they considered a legume?
> 
> ...


Chick peas are eaten raw in felafel (if they are made correctly). Never heard anything about them being poisonous unlike red kidney beans & their relatives


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## mcrx (Feb 17, 2017)

this is why I buy canned beans! 

No, I think I have used chickpea FLOUR though. Isn't that Besan powder?? I forget, but I haven't had issue, although I deepfry this. Are falafals deepfried?? No matter, our chemist (forgot the U/N), said it's fine to eat so I'm not worried. (actually, besan might be from gram or dal lentils...idk. I'm still learning too. )

but yeah. I eat kidney beans a lot, but always from the can. Should probably learn to do them from scratch though someday!


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## Suthseaxa (Feb 19, 2017)

Besan is from chickpeas. Also, I knew someone at work who used to make hummus from raw chickpeas, so it's fine


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## blissful (Feb 19, 2017)

I think, after reading as much as I can about legumes, that my statement is an overly broad statement: "Having read about dried legumes and that uncooked legumes can be  poisonous but the poison is dissipated upon cooking in boiling water for  10-20 minutes." 

Apparently some are deadly toxic, like the red kidney beans, some less toxic, depending on the amount of heat used, boiling, or just simmering (!!! becareful), and for what length of time. Chick peas/garbanzo beans appear to be a legume or pulse but they can be eaten raw or cooked, in moderate amounts. 

I cook all my pulses and legumes from dried and have for years. This seems like something that should be taught in middle school or high school home economics classes. I mean, particularly since dried kidney beans, a FOOD, available in any super market, can be prepared badly, with toxic results, and few people realize it.

I looked at the toxin's or anti-nutritional charts of lectins and beans, and often chick peas were left off the chart. Suthseaxa also said: "It's not the lectins that are the problem, it's haemagglutinin. " That is even harder to research for information.

I'm going to continue to eat them, and even eat the raw bean flour, a little anyways and not worry about it. Thanks for all the input, that helps.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 19, 2017)

I'm glad you came to a resolution you're comfortable with. 

I'm not sure they teach home economics in schools anymore  I know they have culinary education classes in our local high schools, but it's intended to be preparation for a career in cooking, not general education. I think all schools should offer it, along with financial literacy and other such topics, but unfortunately, with budget cuts, there's no money.


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## mcrx (Feb 19, 2017)

I knoooow! what happened to homeec!!?? my father should read this. man he worries me sometimes what he claims to eat or try. i think he gets lucky, but he needs to know.

anyway, good topic though! thanks for the education!


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## Cooking Goddess (Feb 20, 2017)

GotGarlic said:


> ...I think all schools should offer it, along with financial literacy and other such topics, but unfortunately, with budget cuts, there's no money.


Don't forget that a lot of time is spent "teaching the test". With so very much time devoted to standards testing, there is no time left for "Life Skills". Students leave book smart and life dumb.

I think both boys and girls should take basic cooking and shop. Nothing wrong with a lady swinging a hammer properly.  And no man has ever been killed washing dishes.


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## blissful (Feb 20, 2017)

In 2011 a man was shot in the arm while washing dishes. Stuff happens.
Deputies: Estates man shot in arm while doing dishes

Alcohol is legal, cigarettes are legal, both come with a warning on their packaging. Kidney beans, no such label. Shouldn't it say something like, "must be cooked at boiling for at least 20 minutes or longer".

I took one bag of bean flour, toasted it in the oven until it started a little browning, just for flavor, not safety. I used a couple tablespoons of it in a grain free cracker and I really liked the stickiness of it, and the crackers stuck together nicely. I'm going to give it a try in gravy as a thickener the next time I'm making gravy for all of us.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 20, 2017)

Cooking Goddess said:


> Don't forget that a lot of time is spent "teaching the test". With so very much time devoted to standards testing, there is no time left for "Life Skills". Students leave book smart and life dumb.



Oh, I can never forget that. A large part of DH's job is preparing the especially at-risk kids for, and then evaluating the results of, the tests in the science department. It's not a bad thing to have standards; it only means that all kids learn the same information, rather than allowing teachers to teach their favorite parts of the curriculum. I had a ninth grade history teacher who spent six months just on World War II. It's the politicians who turn reasonable requirements into threats to school accreditation and people's jobs, which naturally increases their stress about getting all the kids to pass. 

And it does have to do with budgets. Maintaining a kitchen and shop, plus buying consumable supplies, costs a lot of money. 



Cooking Goddess said:


> I think both boys and girls should take basic cooking and shop. Nothing wrong with a lady swinging a hammer properly.  And no man has ever been killed washing dishes.



I do, too, and I did take both when I was in school.


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## Suthseaxa (Feb 20, 2017)

Basic cooking in my school was horrendously basic and rather boring. "Design a sandwich", "design a soup for an athlete and then do pages of write-up and graphs to discuss its crunchiness, sweetness etc."

Yea I didn't get on with that.


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## Mad Cook (Feb 23, 2017)

CraigC said:


> Is what you read stating that cooking in boiling water destroys the toxin? I can't imagine that if they are cooked in water that the toxin wouldn't still be present in the cooking liquid, unless it was drained off and the legumes were rinsed.


Most books and recipes recommend that you boil fast for the first 10 minutes of cooking to remove the toxins then simmer until cooked. When they are cooked chuck out the cooking liquid and use the beans for whatever you are planning.

It refers to members of the Kidney bean family but not to chick peas (aka garbanzos)

Having said that I always throw away the liquid from canned chickpeas. No reason really - it's just gloopy and horrid looking.


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## blissful (Aug 2, 2018)

Mad Cook said:


> Having said that I always throw away the liquid from canned chickpeas. No reason really - it's just gloopy and horrid looking.




I saw a recipe on DC, for a vegan or eggless mayo that looked promising, in the past couple months. It used 1/4 cup of the liquid of canned chickpeas as an emulsifier. It had a name, but that escapes me at the moment. It looked really interesting.


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## GotGarlic (Aug 2, 2018)

blissful said:


> I saw a recipe on DC, for a vegan or eggless mayo that looked promising, in the past couple months. It used 1/4 cup of the liquid of canned chickpeas as an emulsifier. It had a name, but that escapes me at the moment. It looked really interesting.


Aquafaba. Apparently it acts like an egg white and can be made into mayonnaise or something like whipped eggs for baking.

https://www.americastestkitchen.com/articles/580-what-is-aquafaba


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## Mad Cook (Aug 3, 2018)

blissful said:


> Hey GG, yeah, the package (Bob's Red Mill) doesn't specify if the flour is made from raw or cooked garbanzo beans. I wrote them asking that particular question. I'm sure they'll get right back to me. (as they are a good company from all I hear)
> 
> Did you ever notice people making falafels use cooked beans, or sometimes just soaked beans, then the falafels are fried for a fairly short time. This leaves me believing that there isn't a risk in using uncooked garbanzo beans. This is the opposite (almost) of there being a toxic risk.
> 
> I still feel like 'I don't know."


The Palestinian man who keeps a lovely little café near me and who gave me his mother's recipe for falafels (which he uses in the café), told me that falafels are properly made from uncooked (but soaked) chick peas (Garbanzos). He was most insistence that you can't make falafels with cooked or canned chick peas - but if you prefer to do so  - Well, "chaq'un a son gout".


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## dragnlaw (Aug 4, 2018)

Mad Cook said:


> .
> *Never heard anything about them being poisonous unlike red kidney beans & their relatives*



This is what I have also heard. 

But sometimes the food world is a little slow in advising about toxins.  This was the first year I had EVER seen a warning at the grocers about being sure to boil  Fiddleheads for 15 minutes prior to eating.


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## di reston (Aug 6, 2018)

Farinata - Socca - Chickpea 'pancakes'

This is a very simple dish, but extremely more-ish! Along the Cote d' Azure, it's called 'Soca' (Nice). In the Italian Riviera, it's Farinata. Everywhere along the coast, up to Genova, around 4.00pm people queue at the baker's to take some home.

This recipe is one that was sent to me by a fellow foodie, some time ago:

1/2 kg chickpea flour.
1 sachet of  beer yeast
1 1/2 L. water
10g salt
1 tsp EVOO


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## di reston (Aug 6, 2018)

Sorry folks, my age-ole computer's started to play games again!

Here is the rest of the recipe:

Mix all the ingredients, making sure there aren't any lumps.
Having done that, leave for 4 - 5 hours. The batter should be smooth and velvety. The thickness, once cooked, should be around 10ml

Heat your pan, bringing up the temperature to round about 225°max, and cook until you have a good golden colour.. You can check as much as you like, and when you're happy that it's all ok, remove it from the oven, sprinkle a bit more salt. You can also scatter a sprinkling of rosemary if that appeals to you. Here, it really is a favourite. 

This street is typical of where I live, right down to the Riviera, and there are always crowds waiting!

di reston


Enough is never as good as a feast     Oscar Wilde


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## di reston (Aug 7, 2018)

We very often use 'L.' to indicate litre. Bad habit. Another thing: we use special pans for this. They are heavy copper bottom and heavy steel on the top. The rim is stainless steel, of about 50ml .They need seasoning, i.e. before first use, pour a thin layer of EVOO, and put in the oven for 1hr on a medium heat, then, leaving the oil in, let the pan go cold. Then wipe it to clean it, I use paper towel, but don't put it in the dishwasher what ever you do. To clean it, use olive oil and paper towel. Store with a piece of tin foil, or grease-proof paper. But DON'T put it in the sink or the dishwasher or any detergent! A pancake pan would be ideal, because I'm fairly sure that there aren't any pans like the one described above.

I'm sure you all know how to season a pan - so forgive me if I'm bringing coal to Newcastle!

di reston


Enough is never as good as a feast     Oscar Wilde


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