# Sauteing and Grilling Chicken



## knight76 (Jun 26, 2008)

I am going to be cooking one of the creamy pasta recipe's from my other thread but am after tips on how to saute or fry chicken so it does not come out dry?

Chicken for me, seems to cook through, but be dry and quite hard. I am guessing sauteing in butter would help this but what is the secret for this?

I tend to cook chicken so it is completely white all the way through as I am worried about being poisoned.


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## GB (Jun 26, 2008)

I can not recommend this enough...Try brining your chicken before cooking. You will be amazed at how juicy and flavorful it turns out _even if you overcook it_.

Just mix up a batch of salt water. I do not measure, but it should be pleasantly salty. Maybe a little less salty than the ocean. Soak the chicken in this brine for 2 hours in the fridge. You can go as long as three, but I would not go past that. I find 2 hours is idea though. This is for breasts by the way. A whole chicken can brine for longer. 

Dry the chicken and cook however you want.


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## pacanis (Jun 26, 2008)

I trust my thermometer when it comes to chicken, so as not to overcook it. It's always moist, whether done in a pan or on the grill. I don't see as how the switch to butter will change your results.
But you are better to overcook it rather than undercook it.
I go by 180F for breast meat and 160F for thighs. Stuck in the meat and not a bone. And actually, I usually like the thighs a bit warmer, as dark meat is juicier anyway.
I'm sure others will post their temps, too.


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## Andy M. (Jun 26, 2008)

Chicken breasts are uneven in thickness so you cannot avoid thin parts being overdone by the time the thicker parts are cooked properly.  You can minimize this by cooking the breasts until they are just done and no more.

If you are cooking them whole, I recommend browning them in a skillet on both sides then putting them into a 350 F oven to finish the cooking with a gentler heat.  

Cook the breasts to an internal temperature of 161 F measured at the thickest part of the breast.  They are done and safe at that temp.   Remove them to a plate and cover loosely with foil for 20 minutes to rest and allow the juices to be reabsorbed by the meat.

I cook thighs to 180 F.  They remain juicy longer.


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## knight76 (Jun 26, 2008)

Hmm, Brining. after the brining period can I just take the chicken pieces out and put them straight into the skillet with a bit of a drain off, or do I need to let them sit to get rid of surface wetness?

Found a bit of an article here: Brining - How to Brine Poultry, Fish and Meat with recipes and information.


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## Andy M. (Jun 26, 2008)

Pat them dry with paper towel.


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## Constance (Jun 26, 2008)

You might also consider steaming the chicken.


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## GB (Jun 26, 2008)

knight76 said:


> after the brining period can I just take the chicken pieces out and put them straight into the skillet with a bit of a drain off, or do I need to let them sit to get rid of surface wetness?


Well if you put them into the pan still wet then it will be harder to brown and they will steam a bit. If that is OK with you then yes you can put them right in the pan. If you want to brown then then patting them dry first would be beneficial.


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## knight76 (Jun 26, 2008)

For the purpose of the fettuccine dish I would like to brown it as it will look better against the white of the sauce.

With brining - Couldn't you brine a nice thick piece of ribeye and then pat dry, sear and oven cook to finish for a nice juicy steak? I was reading in my link I posted about brining that you need to add some saltpeter to the brine to ensure the meat does not turn white during brining.


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## GB (Jun 26, 2008)

There is no need to brine steak. If cooked properly it will not be dry.


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## knight76 (Jun 26, 2008)

GB said:


> There is no need to brine steak. If cooked properly it will not be dry.



Somehow I knew that was going to be the answer


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## bowlingshirt (Jun 26, 2008)

Put the breast between two layes of plastic wrap and gently use a mallet to flatten and even out the chicken. You should then be able to saute the breast to nice golden brown color on the outside while maintaining a juicy inside.


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## jennyema (Jun 26, 2008)

knight76 said:


> For the purpose of the fettuccine dish I would like to brown it as it will look better against the white of the sauce.
> 
> With brining - Couldn't you brine a nice thick piece of ribeye and then pat dry, sear and oven cook to finish for a nice juicy steak? I was reading in my link I posted about brining that you need to add some saltpeter to the brine to ensure the meat does not turn white during brining.


 

Brining doesn't really work with beef the way it works with pork, chicken and shrimp.  So you shouldn't try to brine beef.

And NO, there is no reason to add saltpeter to a brine.  Salt and sugar do not turn meat white.


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## ironchef (Jun 26, 2008)

If you need to brine beef--especially ribeye--to make it juicy, you've got problems. 

For safety reasons, chicken *should* be cooked to a minimum of 160 degrees F to kill any possible salmonella, but chicken does go from a raw to cooked state at 140 degrees F. Regardless, if your chicken is not brined, cooking it higher than 165 will result in dry cardboard. If you don't have a thermometer, do the juice test. Poke a small hole in the chicken all the way to the center. If the juices run clear,  you're good to go.


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## DaveSoMD (Jun 26, 2008)

bowlingshirt said:


> Put the breast between two layes of plastic wrap and gently use a mallet to flatten and even out the chicken. You should then be able to saute the breast to nice golden brown color on the outside while maintaining a juicy inside.


 
Exact;y what I was going to post.  I do this all the time with Bnls/Sknls breasts.  The other option is to roast bone-in and skin-on breasts in the oven at 350 degrees.  The fat from the skin wil help keep the breast meat moist. 

Depends on what you are planning to use the chicken for.


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## GB (Jun 26, 2008)

ironchef said:


> If you don't have a thermometer, do the juice test. Poke a small hole in the chicken all the way to the center. If the juices run clear,  you're good to go.


This is all accurate information. The only problem I have with this method is that juices will run clear at 185. They will run clear at 200. This method only tells you if the chicken is safe to eat because it has been cooked to a high enough temp. It does not tell you if you have overcooked it. Of course if you do not have a thermometer then it is a great way to know if you cooked the chicken until done.


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## pacanis (Jun 26, 2008)

My thermometer must be 15 degrees off, because the breastmeat of the chicken I cook is always cooked to 180 and has never resulted in dry cardboard. And I don't let it raise to 180, it is 180 when it comes off the grill over stove.
I'll have to check my digital probe against my old dial thermometer.


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## jennyema (Jun 26, 2008)

Pacanis

180 is way too much for breast meat. Plus if it's 180 when you take it off the heat it''ll be 190 or more after, accounting for carry-over temperature.  Just the physics of cooking means that that meat will, in fact be drier that meat cooked to a lower temperature.

Your thermometer may not be to blame. Take the chicken off the heat at 160 and cover it for a few minutes. Then cut into it. I'll bet you $$$ that it will be fully cooked and pretty juicey.


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## pacanis (Jun 26, 2008)

I'll give it a try next time, Jennyema, after I compare two thermometers, but the thermomter _must_ be off for what I've been reading.  Because believe me, I'm the last person that will eat a chicken breast if it is dry.  I don't even like white meat.


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## GB (Jun 26, 2008)

You don't need to compare two thermometers. Just boil some water and put the one thermometer in. It should read 212 (assuming you are at sea level).


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## knight76 (Jun 26, 2008)

GB said:


> You don't need to compare two thermometers. Just boil some water and put the one thermometer in. It should read 212 (assuming you are at sea level).


 
But even if your not, both thermometers should read the same, if not one is off.


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## pacanis (Jun 26, 2008)

I held both thermometers under hot tap water just now. My digital read 130F, the old dial type ten degrees cooler.
I don't know.... I read somewhere when you cook a chicken and stick the thermometer in the breast it will read 180 when done and the thigh will read 160 when done.
It has always worked for me without the chicken tasting like cardboard. Guess I better hang onto this digital thermometer. I don't want to have to learn new numbers


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## Andy M. (Jun 26, 2008)

pacanis said:


> I held both thermometers under hot tap water just now. My digital read 130F, the old dial type ten degrees cooler.
> I don't know.... I read somewhere when you cook a chicken and stick the thermometer in the breast it will read 180 when done and the thigh will read 160 when done.
> It has always worked for me without the chicken tasting like cardboard. Guess I better hang onto this digital thermometer. I don't want to have to learn new numbers


 
The problem with your test is that it doesn't tell you which thermometer is wrong, both may be, because you don't know the temperature of the water.

Using boiling water or a bowl of water loaded with ice cubes gives you a baseline to test both the thermometers.

Everywhere I have read about doneness temps for chickens, the recommendations are 160 F for breasts and 180 in the thigh.


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## pacanis (Jun 27, 2008)

Andy M. said:


> The problem with your test is that it doesn't tell you which thermometer is wrong, both may be, because you don't know the temperature of the water.
> 
> Using boiling water or a bowl of water loaded with ice cubes gives you a baseline to test both the thermometers.
> 
> Everywhere I have read about doneness temps for chickens, the recommendations are 160 F for breasts and 180 in the thigh.


 
True. It was just a quick test while I was in the kitchen.

I don't remember where I read those temps. It may have been on the instructions that came with my beer can chicken rack from Wally World, which I have thrown out. It was for cooking a whole bird and gave the two temps in two places as a way to tell when the chicken was done. Regardless of my thermometer being off, the breast meat has always been a higher temp than the thighs when checked.  I transferred this info to when I cook the pieces separately and that may be wrong.
But it comes out


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## Andy M. (Jun 27, 2008)

The biggest problem with cooking a whole chicken is the different amounts of time different parts of a chicken require to cook.  As a result, you risk overcooking the breasts by the time the thigh meat near the joint with the body cooks through.

Dark meat, just like the breast meat, is safely cooked at 161 F.  However, the texture of teh dark meat improves with a little more cooking to the 180 F level.


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## Uncle Bob (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm in the 160 breast...180 thigh camp .....For whole birds, I have found that the "butterflied' birds work well when BBQing...Cooking the majority of the time with the bone side down, and good placement in relation to the fire I have been able to achieve the above temperatures fairly consistently.


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## GB (Jun 27, 2008)

pacanis said:


> True. It was just a quick test while I was in the kitchen.
> 
> I don't remember where I read those temps. It may have been on the instructions that came with my beer can chicken rack from Wally World, which I have thrown out.


It sounds like either you mis-read it or it was a mis-print.


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## pacanis (Jun 27, 2008)

Could be, GB, but it seems to make sense that the thinner meat (breast) would read a higher temp than the thighs when doing a whole bird. To me anyway.
And that's probably why I always liked the thighs cooked above 160, especially if my thermometer is off the wrong way.


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## GB (Jun 27, 2008)

There is different fat content between white and dark meat though so the thickness is not the only factor. White meat has less fat so it dries out much quicker and at lower temps. 

The bottom line though is that if you are happy with how you have been doing it then it is right for you. That is all that really matters as long as you are cooking it to a safe temp, which you are. Try it the other way around just once though to see what you think.


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## Andy M. (Jun 27, 2008)

pacanis said:


> Could be, GB, but it seems to make sense that the thinner meat (breast) would read a higher temp than the thighs when doing a whole bird. To me anyway...


 


While that's true, it's not necessarily desirable.  As white meat is leaner than the thighs, it is prone to drying out more quickly when cooked to a higher temperature.  The problem is exacerbated by the fact that the thigh is pressed up against the body and requires a longer cooking time than the breasts which are out in the open.


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## suziquzie (Jun 27, 2008)

Knight, 
Is the chicken going to be in chunks or pieces in your dish?
If so, I find it turns out best to sort-of poach it... I'm not suure what you call it what I do. It's not browning....
Cut chicken into 1/2 to 3/4 inch chunks, (or desired size for mucnhing) heat a TB or so of oil in non-stick pan. 
Add all chicken at once... it will get very liquidy in the bottom, dont pour it off. Cook til white all the way thru. Maybe 5-7 min?
I find the combo of oil / chicken juice keeps the chunks very moist.


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## jennyema (Jun 27, 2008)

pacanis said:


> I read somewhere when you cook a chicken and stick the thermometer in the breast it will read 180 when done and the thigh will read 160 when done.


 

That's backwards.  It's 160 for white meat and 180 for dark meat.


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## fahriye (Jun 27, 2008)

Hi, If I am grilling chicken pieces I marinade them in mixture of milk and olive oil for couple of hours first. It tenderizes the meat and doesn't taste dry.


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## pacanis (Jun 27, 2008)

GB, Andy, I totally agree with you guys.
Like I said a few posts back, I think I transferred what I read for a whole chicken and applied it to doing chicken pieces. Next time you cook a whole bird, see it the breast doesn't  register a higher temp than the thighs.
And I in turn will see if cooking chicken breasts to 180 using my thermomter is really cooking them lower than what it reads. I'll boil some water and take a reading.
So, does boiling water remain 212F? Or does it keep climbing once it reaches boiling point?


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## GB (Jun 27, 2008)

the temp of boiling water stops climbing as soon as it boils. At sea level, boiling water will always be 212. It could be boiling for 4 hours and it would still be 212.


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## Andy M. (Jun 27, 2008)

pacanis said:


> ...Next time you cook a whole bird, see it the breast doesn't register a higher temp than the thighs...


 

This was never in question.  It's just not what gives you the best results.  You have to keep cooking the bird after the breasts reach 160F until the thighs reach 180F.


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## knight76 (Jun 27, 2008)

For the creamy fettuccine dish I am going to cook, I am not sure which way I will go yet. I have young kids so cutting into bite sized cubes would make more sense as they can't but it up themselves. They love pasta though.


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## MexicoKaren (Jun 27, 2008)

If you are going to roast your chicken breasts, try this method. The meat tastes seasoned ALL the way through, as if it has been brined:
 Preheat your oven to 450F and line a 9X13 metal pan with foil. If you have a rack that will fit in the pan, so much the better.

Take two large and meaty (about 1.5 lbs each) whole chicken breasts, not split, complete with skin and bone. Stand them in the pan, letting the ribs make a sort of rack for them to stand on. 

Make a paste of 2 TBS soft butter and 2 tsp salt. Gently lift the skin from the breasts and use a spoon to insert 1/4 of this mixture under each half of each breast. Pat it gently to spread it around. Then, turn the breasts over and salt and pepper liberally. Rub about a TBS of oil all over the top of the breasts and then liberally pepper them. 

Roast at 450F for 35-40 minutes, until an instant thermometer reads 160F. Remove from oven, cover with foil, and let them rest about 10 minutes, then carve. There is enough juice left in the pan to make gravy, sauces, or just pour over the chicken.

This chicken meat was SO juicy and well-seasoned. Very tender. You can use your imagination and come up with lots of seasoning ideas, but this is just a basic start.

When I saute chicken breasts for this fettucine dish, I use very thinly sliced chicken that I buy here already sliced (a la Milanesa). But you can take a boneless skinless breast and do that yourself. Slice about a half inch off at a time (from the top), not quite all the way through, turn it around, slice again, etc. You will end up with a "sheet" of chicken. I cut these into manageable pieces and fry them in my cast iron skillet in a mixture of butter and oil, very hot, very fast, just a few minutes on a side. Then I slice them into strips. Use them for many things at that point....


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## archiduc (Jun 27, 2008)

knight76 said:


> I am going to be cooking one of the creamy pasta recipe's from my other thread but am after tips on how to saute or fry chicken so it does not come out dry?
> 
> Chicken for me, seems to cook through, but be dry and quite hard. I am guessing sauteing in butter would help this but what is the secret for this?
> 
> I tend to cook chicken so it is completely white all the way through as I am worried about being poisoned.


 
Hi Knight76,

You entitled this thread "SAUTÉEING AND GRILLING".

The reality is that, when it comes to cooking, they are two entirely different and discrete methods of cooking. The heat source and direction, at least in classical cooking, comes from a different direction for each method.

When an item is to be sautéed, the heat source comes from below, as in a frying pan or saucepan, and the heat may be regulated to ensure that the food cooks with or without browning (more heat reqiures to be applied for browning and less for sautéeing without browning as for cooking chicken fillets as in poéle which is cooking without colouring, IIRC. This method is used for classic dishes such as Veal Tallyrand or Fricassé de Poulet a l`Ancienne as described by Simone Beck, Louisette Bertholle and Julia Child on pages 282-285, of their seminal text "Mastering the Art of French Cooking".

Grilling (conceptually and practically) is a method which has gone through some degrees of change in the last 20 years as the word "griddling" or process of cooking on a "griddle pan" has entered the culinary repetoire. Grilling traditionally meant the subjection of an item to heat from above and was used for whole fish like lemon/dover sole or fish steaks or meat (filet, lamb noisettes etc.,) which required the application of heat from above and turning half way through cooking. 

Ridged "Griddle pans" have enabled people to cook the same items, dare I say, short order items on a griddle (base heat) as opposed to a grill or commercially via a salamander (top heat). Essentially, the items need to be composed of short fibres like those of fish or in the case of meat, derived from cuts from the body which are less exercised and short in terms of fibre length, connective tissue content such as filet, ribeye, noisettes of lamb etc.

More tomorrow!!!!


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## knight76 (Jun 28, 2008)

archiduc said:


> Hi Knight76,
> 
> You entitled this thread "SAUTÉEING AND GRILLING".
> 
> ...



Now this is a more supercillious post wouldn't you say Michael in FtW?

Good points archiduc, I guess by grilling I meant more like griddling. Just the term Griddling has not really permeated the Australian cooking vernacular.


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