# Wicked ribs



## wittdog (Nov 28, 2006)

We have beautifully weather here today….and Buford has been busy….I feed him some of Uncle Al’s Wicked Good Rubbed Ribs…and I also have on a few fatties some chicken and some hotdogs for lunch…





Almost done



I like the color I’m getting with Unlce Al’s rub and the little piece I snatched was wickedly good…
No finished pics of the dogs and chicken..they didn't stick around long enough...


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## Bruce B (Nov 28, 2006)

You know what kind of sauce would really go good on those?


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## wittdog (Nov 28, 2006)

Bruce B said:
			
		

> You know what kind of sauce would really go good on those?


Uncle Als Wicked Good?  
The dino sauce is going out again this week :roll:


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## Bill The Grill Guy (Nov 28, 2006)

Dang Dave, dem is sum PURTY ribs you gots dare.  Hows bouts stickin one of dem in a curdboard box ans send em to Gordonsvburg?


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## wittdog (Nov 28, 2006)

brian j said:
			
		

> witt - i count 10 hot dogs in there.  who else were you feeding?


My boys...and...........and open package is an empty package...


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## cleglue (Nov 28, 2006)

The ribs sure do look good.  Are they finished yet?


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## Puff1 (Nov 28, 2006)

Looks great Dog!
The "Wicked" rubs and sauce are awesome


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## john a (Nov 28, 2006)

Yup, they’ll certainly do. Often I do not use any sauce on my ribs.


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## Uncle Al (Nov 28, 2006)

Puff said:
			
		

> Looks great Dog!
> The "Wicked" rubs and sauce are awesome



 I really appreciate the compliments.I am slowly working out labels, containers, and co-packers etc. Hopefully I will be able to offer these "Wicked Good" products to everyone interested real soon.

My guess is about two to three weeks. Maybe, I think. We'll see.

Then I can do some shameless hawking like Larry    

Al


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## bigwheel (Nov 28, 2006)

Meat side down when you cooking the ribs young man..meat side down.  With the bones on top it forms a perfect concave moisture collector which will slowly dribble down to keep the meat basted and moist.  Same eggxact laws of physics which says to cook barnyard avians breastes side down. 

bigwheel




			
				wittdog said:
			
		

> We have beautifully weather here today….and Buford has been busy….I feed him some of Uncle Al’s Wicked Good Rubbed Ribs…and I also have on a few fatties some chicken and some hotdogs for lunch…


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## Cliff H. (Nov 28, 2006)

Looking good wiitdog.  Nice looking ribs.


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## Puff1 (Nov 28, 2006)

Uncle Al said:
			
		

> Puff said:
> 
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> ...


Can't wait Al  
Looks like "someone" else might start "hawking" their wares here pretty soon


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## ScottyDaQ (Nov 29, 2006)

Looks ribingly good!


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## john a (Nov 29, 2006)

bigwheel said:
			
		

> Meat side down when you cooking the ribs young man..meat side down.  With the bones on top it forms a perfect concave moisture collector which will slowly dribble down to keep the meat basted and moist.  Same eggxact laws of physics which says to cook barnyard avians breastes side down.
> 
> bigwheel
> 
> ...



I do ribs meat side down for the first few hours for this very reason. The thin layer of fat renders down adding flavor.


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## wittdog (Nov 29, 2006)

BW and oct97...I'll have to give it a shot meat side down some time....don't know how well it will do with my pit...


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## Uncle Al (Nov 29, 2006)

I am with Brian on this one being like the brisket thing, I will add this
 there is no way that fat melts on any piece of meat and penetrates into the meat. It only renders and comes out. The longer you cook it the drier it gets. You could boil a hunk of meat in oil and it won't penetrate, its called deep fat frying.

I have cooked lots of ribs and don't recall a layer of fat on the bones. Can someone draw me a picture of the fat that collects in the curve of the bones and then somehow dribbles somewhere and adds flavor to the ribs.

I don't want to start a "fat up or down war" here, I just want an explanation.

Al


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## bigwheel (Nov 29, 2006)

Past few years I been doing mne meat side down the whole time and havent found any drawbacks with it.  Now to glaze you can flip em back over of course. 

bigwheel


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## wittdog (Nov 29, 2006)

What are you cooking on BW? My offset it's hotter above the grate than right below it


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## LarryWolfe (Nov 29, 2006)

Uncle Al said:
			
		

> I am with Brian on this one being like the brisket thing, I will add this
> there is no way that fat melts on any piece of meat and penetrates into the meat. It only renders and comes out. The longer you cook it the drier it gets. You could boil a hunk of meat in oil and it won't penetrate, its called deep fat frying.
> 
> I have cooked lots of ribs and don't recall a layer of fat on the bones. Can someone draw me a picture of the fat that collects in the curve of the bones and then somehow dribbles somewhere and adds flavor to the ribs.
> ...



Here's my view, right or wrong, it's just the way I see it and believe how it happens.    

A piece of meat is not a solid compound.  It is strands of muscles that are connected by tissue and fat.  When meat of any kind is cooked, especially at low temperatures, the internal and external fat melt in between the strands of muscles.  Thus, "penetrating" in between the strands of muscle as the internal fat renders and the connective tissue breaks down.  I believe cooking a brisket fat side up does indeed baste the outside of the roast as well as internally.

In BigWheels defense, there is a nominal amount of fat on the underside of the ribs.  The "liquid" he's referring to is probably both rendered fat as well as condensation in his cooker.  Both of which I agree would be beneficial to the ribs. 

Just my .02.


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## Rev.Jr. (Nov 29, 2006)

How did you hack into Larry's computer, Alton?


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## Jack W. (Nov 29, 2006)

Larry Wolfe said:
			
		

> [quote="Uncle Al":1jj38ywx]I am with Brian on this one being like the brisket thing, I will add this
> there is no way that fat melts on any piece of meat and penetrates into the meat. It only renders and comes out. The longer you cook it the drier it gets. You could boil a hunk of meat in oil and it won't penetrate, its called deep fat frying.
> 
> I have cooked lots of ribs and don't recall a layer of fat on the bones. Can someone draw me a picture of the fat that collects in the curve of the bones and then somehow dribbles somewhere and adds flavor to the ribs.
> ...



Here's my view, right or wrong, it's just the way I see it and believe how it happens.    

A piece of meat is not a solid compound.  It is strands of muscles that are connected by tissue and fat.  When meat of any kind is cooked, especially at low temperatures, the internal and external fat melt in between the strands of muscles.  Thus, "penetrating" in between the strands of muscle as the internal fat renders and the connective tissue breaks down.  I believe cooking a brisket fat side up does indeed baste the outside of the roast as well as internally.

In BigWheels defense, there is a nominal amount of fat on the underside of the ribs.  The "liquid" he's referring to is probably both rendered fat as well as condensation in his cooker.  Both of which I agree would be beneficial to the ribs. 

Just my .02.[/quote:1jj38ywx]

You gotta step away from the Bud and try that one again bud.  You lost me at internal/external strands "penetrating"...How can something penetrate and render at the same time?  

Good Q!

Jack


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## LarryWolfe (Nov 29, 2006)

Jack W. said:
			
		

> [quote="Larry Wolfe":3vxhmtb5]
> Here's my view, right or wrong, it's just the way I see it and believe how it happens.
> 
> A piece of meat is not a solid compound.  It is strands of muscles that are connected by tissue and fat.  When meat of any kind is cooked, especially at low temperatures, the internal and external fat melt in between the strands of muscles.  Thus, "penetrating" in between the strands of muscle as the internal fat renders and the connective tissue breaks down.  I believe cooking a brisket fat side up does indeed baste the outside of the roast as well as internally.
> ...



You gotta step away from the Bud and try that one again bud.  You lost me at internal/external strands "penetrating"...*How can something penetrate and render at the same time*?  

Good Q!

Jack[/quote:3vxhmtb5]

You have internal fat as well as external fat, right?  There is a void left between the layers/strands of meat once the internal fat renders.  Which leaves an opening for the external layer of fat to render/flow through.


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## bigwheel (Nov 29, 2006)

I cook in an upright configuration heat coming up from the bottom usually with a water pan. Its basically a big rectanular shaped WSM. Meat anywhere from 24 to 36" above the fire. 

bigwheel




			
				wittdog said:
			
		

> What are you cooking on BW? My offset it's hotter above the grate than right below it


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## Jack W. (Nov 29, 2006)

I'm sure the debate will roll on.  If anyone is interested, the science is well documented in Harold McGee's "On Food and Cooking" A Science and Lore of the Kitchen.  ISBN: 0684800012 .  If it's not in your collection or on your Christmas list, your missing one of the bibles of the kitchen.

IMHO the best that can be said for surface fat rendering at low temps is that it provides cooling action to help prevent fast constriction of the fibers.  The internal "succulence" of barbecued meats comes from the denaturing of collegen.  The "trick" is to get the meat off of the heat source before all the denatured collegen is pushed out of the muscle.  

That's all I've got for this part of the thread.  Maybe we should debate this under it's own heading.   8) 

Good Q! 

Jack


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## ScottyDaQ (Nov 29, 2006)

Jack W. said:
			
		

> I'm sure the debate will roll on.  If anyone is interested, the science is well documented in Harold McGee's "On Food and Cooking" A Science and Lore of the Kitchen.  ISBN: 0684800012 .  If it's not in your collection or on your Christmas list, your missing one of the bibles of the kitchen.
> 
> IMHO the best that can be said for surface fat rendering at low temps is that it provides cooling action to help prevent fast constriction of the fibers.  The internal "succulence" of barbecued meats comes from the denaturing of collegen.  The "trick" is to get the meat off of the heat source before all the denatured collegen is pushed out of the muscle.
> 
> ...



Ooohhh That sounds key!


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## Nick Prochilo (Nov 29, 2006)

I think everybody is looking way to hard into this. Cook them how you feel like cooking them and don't worry how others do it! I do my ribs in a rack and they come out exactly like me and my family like them.


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## john a (Nov 29, 2006)

A professional Chef working part time at a BBQ place using Southern Prides related how the help had put a couple of cases of BB's in upside down. When he checked a couple of hours later and discovered them he noticed a pool of liquid in the concave surface and said "what the hell" and left them as is. They came out better then ever for whatever reason, that's the way they continued to do them. When he told us about it I decided to give it a try, it works so I too continue to do them that way.  :?


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## LarryWolfe (Nov 29, 2006)

brian j said:
			
		

> [quote="Larry Wolfe":31b0gtbk]You have internal fat as well as external fat, right?  There is a void left between the layers/strands of meat once the internal fat renders.  Which leaves an opening for the external layer of fat to render/flow through.



i'm sorry larry but i don't believe the whole fat penetrating meat thing.  juiciness comes from fat and connective tissue between the meat breaking down not from rendered fat flowing though the space between meat strands.  also as meat heats up the cells constrict driving moisture out as a opposed to letting moisture in.  that's why you rest meats after they cook.[/quote:31b0gtbk]

Just saying the way I believe it happens.  Not saying it's right or wrong, just the way I believe it happens.  From my point of view it makes sense to me.


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## bigwheel (Nov 29, 2006)

Well it made sense to me. In Texas we call it bafflin em with ******** Nice try. 

bigwheel


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## Nick Prochilo (Nov 29, 2006)

Larry Wolfe said:
			
		

> [quote="brian j":1uduv5os][quote="Larry Wolfe":1uduv5os]You have internal fat as well as external fat, right?  There is a void left between the layers/strands of meat once the internal fat renders.  Which leaves an opening for the external layer of fat to render/flow through.



i'm sorry larry but i don't believe the whole fat penetrating meat thing.  juiciness comes from fat and connective tissue between the meat breaking down not from rendered fat flowing though the space between meat strands.  also as meat heats up the cells constrict driving moisture out as a opposed to letting moisture in.  that's why you rest meats after they cook.[/quote:1uduv5os]

Just saying the way I believe it happens.  Not saying it's right or wrong, just the way I believe it happens.  From my point of view it makes sense to me.[/quote:1uduv5os]

And that's all that matters!


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## Griff (Nov 29, 2006)

I usually cook my ribs in a rack with the bones vertical. Consequently, I have nothing to add to this discussion.

Griff


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## Cliff H. (Nov 29, 2006)

I like ribs. [smilie=a_goodjob.gif]


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## LarryWolfe (Nov 30, 2006)

Griff said:
			
		

> I usually cook my ribs in a rack with the bones vertical. Consequently, I have nothing to add to this discussion.
> 
> Griff



I too cook my ribs vertical and love the way they come out.  I was more or less just giving my two cents towards Al's request for an explanation towards rendering fat.  

I'm just gonna smoke foie gras for now one, that way it doesn't really matter how you put it on the smoker!


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## john a (Nov 30, 2006)

Hey Larry,

"I'm just gonna smoke foie gras for now one, that way it doesn't really matter how you put it on the smoker! "

Do you grow your own?


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## Uncle Al (Nov 30, 2006)

Larry Wolfe said:
			
		

> Griff said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Larry,

Thanks for the taking time to try to explain. However I was being sarcastic.

Being a Biomedical research engineer by trade I have  pretty good handle on the cellular science aspect of cooking meats etc.  That being said, there is a *scientific explanation *to all aspects of cooking which is different from opinions as to what happens to food when it's cooked. so when I here someone say to cook meat in a certain way so that such and such will happen, and I know for a scientific fact that what they are saying is incorrect, I ask for an explanation as to how they arrived at their conclusion. And that's enough on this subject.

Al


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## LarryWolfe (Nov 30, 2006)

Uncle Al said:
			
		

> Larry,
> 
> Thanks for the taking time to try to explain. However I was being sarcastic.
> 
> ...



Sorry Al, that I wasted your time reading my undereducated worthless post.  I didn't realize our education levels/professions/knowledge, etc. were so vastly different.  With your knowledge, you should have a scientific search website called AskAl.com.      

You up for a drink?.......my treat!


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## Uncle Al (Nov 30, 2006)

Hey that's a good idea. The drink of course. Hey I was not demeaning your response or trying to sound like a smarty pants, sorry if I came off that way. But being a scientist makes me ask questions when I hear something that goes against my understanding of how things work.

Sorry    

Al


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## Bruce B (Nov 30, 2006)




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## Uncle Al (Nov 30, 2006)

Popcorn not required 

Al


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## bigwheel (Nov 30, 2006)

Well I aint gonna be convinced your really an injuneer till I see a pitcher of your train.  Color me skeptical if you will.    Now I give you the roots of this bone up bizness as good as I know it.  Many moons ago a fella named Rock McNeilly coined a phrase of the "swim cap" method and started out with split chicken cooked skin side down. He say the top of the split chicken will form a cup to hold juice (I supposed whut has been cooked out of the meat) and it will gather in the little swim cap and will eventually ooze its was back into the meat. Then I taught Emeril how to do it using whole chickens..then this hillybilly from Floriddy named the Fat Man figgered out it works on ribs too.  Not counting the cooking gravity makes it come back to the place from which it cometh. Thats all I know.   Surely they had gravity back in injuneer school huh? Thanks. 

bigwheel


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## wittdog (Dec 1, 2006)

I've had good results starting with the meat up on ribs and then flipping them bone up 1/2 thru the cook.....


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## Uncle Al (Dec 1, 2006)

Bigwheel,

Ever hear of duck or goose confit ?????? It's a method of preserving.  If you have, then you know that it is cooked in a pot containing nothing but its own fat. Actually it is complely covered in it. It is very tender but it does not absorb any of the fat except for maybe a little on the outside. 

There is no mechanism for fat or water to be re-absorbed back into meat. 
That's why if you boil meat or poultry in water for too long it becomes dry as a bone. Probably why gravy got invented !!! 

But if you like cooking your ribs "bone side up" more power to ya.

Al


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## wittdog (Dec 1, 2006)

I flip them cuz they tend to cook a little more even......


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## Cliff H. (Dec 1, 2006)

If the wind calms down to say 30mph today, I will be testing this theory.


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## LarryWolfe (Dec 1, 2006)

XX


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## oompappy (Dec 1, 2006)

wittdog said:
			
		

> *I flip them cuz they tend to cook a little more even.....*.



Got any science to back that up, Mr?


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## wittdog (Dec 1, 2006)

oompappy said:
			
		

> wittdog said:
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> 
> 
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Well I preformed whets called the try try again method of testing an hypothesis...I could use some jargon (otherwise known as baffled with BS)...but I noticed that on my cooking apparatus....taking into account all the variables...heat source…firebox placement….exhaust placement..and placement of animal product that heat tends to rise…and with the thermal dynamics in play…the more adult bevs I consume the less I worry about how I git where I’m going just that the finished product is what I like. 

Because the mrs didn't take the plated pics I can't prove or disprove any of this


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## oompappy (Dec 1, 2006)

Makes alot of sense to me wittdog, Thanks!!!


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## Steve McMurtry (Dec 1, 2006)

Hey Witt,

Next time you go into that jargon, can you let us know ahead of time,
just so we can put our rubber boots on  

Cheers


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