# Curry Paste choices?



## Caslon (May 29, 2012)

I want to try using curry paste in my cooking along with curry powder that some recipes call for. Mainly to infuse a little more curry taste into the meat (marinating with curry powder doesn't seem to work that well). I've never bought or used curry paste before. I went to my local Ralph's grocery store and they had two kinds of Pataks curry paste. Mild Pataks curry paste and Masala Curry paste too.  Some from Amazon.com reviews says its very vinegar tasting.

I guess I'll just have to buy various ones to find out what suits my taste. I am fond of spicyness in cooking, but I wonder if I should just use more medium curry paste rather than a hot one. I want a lot of curry taste, but not curry paste that has other ingredients to make it hot. (?)

I want to use it in my lamb curry stew that I've made for decades, and also when I make curried chicken and rice.  I wouldn't mind tips, opinions, what brand you like and why or what brand you don't like and why.


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## taxlady (May 29, 2012)

I like all the Patak's curry pastes that I have tried, less so the mild one. There won't be a taste like the taste from curry powder. That's something weird and Western. The smell of the stale fenugreek in curry powder makes me nauseous.


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## slett (May 29, 2012)

I use all sorts of the Pataks pastes, they are great!  I've made curries from scratch and the pastes are waaaayyy easier and just as tasty.  I don't stick to the instructions on the jar ether.  Like to add all sorts of veggies.  More fun to be creative!


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## Greg Who Cooks (May 29, 2012)

We should all realize that there's at least two major divisons here: Indian curry vs. Thai curry. Indian curries often use yogurt, Thai curries often use coconut milk. (This is way over-simplification, we can discuss if you like.)

But what I'm sayin' is that maybe you should try a Thai curry paste, and I recommend Maesri brand (made in Thailand) available in several varieties (red, green, masamun etc.).

If the Indians aren't doing it for you maybe you should try a Thai.


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## AZFoodie (May 29, 2012)

I use store-bought Thai curry pastes all the time, although I am trying to make my own paste now.  I use a more "robust" cut of meat such as pork shoulder.  I start off by browning the meat and then braising/stewing it in a mix of stock, thin coconut milk, some curry paste, galangal, ginger, lemongrass and kaffir lime leaves.  Simultaneously, I start making the curry sauce in a separate pan using thick coconut milk, curry paste, sugar, fish sauce, etc.  I use the braising liquid to create the sauce.  Once the sauce reaches the desired consistency and flavor, and the meat has the required doneness, I add the meat to the curry sauce and finish the dish.


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## Gravy Queen (May 31, 2012)

I love Pataks indian pastes, always have one in the store cupboard, easy to use and taste great, never noticed anything vinegary about them. There are so many, the hot ones are really hot, very authentic I find, I go for somewhere in the middle.


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## Caslon (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks for the replies.
I just bought some Pataks Tikka Masala. I'm still wondering how I'm going to go about marinating the 2 lbs. of lamb stew meat my recipe calls for. Normally, I simmer the lamb in a quart of water (with onions, garlic, bay leaves, etc) with 4 tablespoons of curry powder added for 2-2.5 hours. I now want to try marinating the lamb beforehand to get more curry flavor into the meat. Stewing alone doesn't   quite get that curry flavor into the lamb as much as I want now.

My lamb curry is made like a stew that is thickened at the end with arrowroot, and served over rice, with lots of condiments on top.

I suppose I could dry rub the lamb chunks with all or a portion of the 4 tablespoons curry powder and marinate for 6 hours, or maybe all or a portion of the curry powder with some curry paste added too, or marinate the lamb in curry paste only and perhaps adjust how much curry powder I add to the stewing process.   It may be one of those things I just have to try to know which method works best to flavor the meat more.  I don't plan to but, why is yogurt added for marinating lamb with powder or paste? To tenderize it?

I hope I don't overspice the 2 lbs. of packaged USA lamb for stew I just bought ($20). Wow, the price of lamb these days.


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## Caslon (Jun 1, 2012)

I don't do a lot of complicated cooking, so forgive me going on about one of my faves.  I loved this lamb curry my mom used to make way back. She got the recipe from 2 large fancy cook books that were part of a set of 1960's Encyclopedia Britannica.   Those books are long gone, but I tore out the page with the lamb curry recipe.  
I've been cooking this ever since, over the years.

I already posted the original recipe 4 years ago. The original called for adding some tomato sauce and cream, both of which my mom purposely left out, and for the better, IMO.

http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f51/lamb-curry-easy-and-delicious-45167.html

Now I wish to add more curry flavor to the lamb, the lamb meat is a bit bland tasting, the stew liquid is of course packed with curry flavor, but I'd like more flavor in the lamb meat itself. I'd rather not brown the meat first or something like that, if possible.


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## Zereh (Jun 1, 2012)

I love Maesri brand best:


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## Steve Kroll (Jun 1, 2012)

Caslon said:


> I don't plan to but, why is yogurt added for marinating lamb with powder or paste? To tenderize it?


Exactly. If you're planning to marinate it, yogurt is what I would use as a base. The reason it's used in Indian cooking is because it's acidic. Its role is the same as that of vinegar or citrus juice in a western marinade: it helps tenderize the meat and carry other flavors with it.

Having said that, I make curry about once a week, and most of the recipes I've seen only marinate the meat if the plan is to grill it. For example, to make the Tandoori Chicken used as an ingredient in Murgh Makhani. Otherwise, the usual procedure is to saute a spice mixture in oil and onions, and then brown the meat in that. Once the gravy ingredients are added, you then slow cook it. You should get a ton of flavor.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jun 1, 2012)

Zereh said:


> I love Maesri brand best:



I've used this brand to good effect too.

One thing should be understood, there's Thai curry and there's Indian curry. I don't like Indian curry at all. Pataks tasts yucky to me. I make Thai curries, based upon coconut milk as the liquid.

So my point is that whatever you use depends on what kind of curry you're making. I'm not sure but I suspect the curry pastes from one region might not be right for cooking curries from the other region.


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## Caslon (Jun 1, 2012)

I tasted the Pataks, it's well...curry tasting with maybe some vinegar taste too.

I'm going to buy some Thai curry paste too, for comparison. Thanks.

I also noted the part about sauteing the lamb.  As it so happens, I saute 2 large chopped onions in some butter until the onions turn clear. I COULD toss in the lamb at that point (curry powdered + maybe a little curry paste too) and saute the lamb awhile too, then continue with the stewing process as called for.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jun 1, 2012)

Calson, if you try the Thai curries I suggest you base your recipes on coconut milk, or IMO (my own idea here) even better to use coconut cream if you can find it.

And I just don't accept use of curry powder as applicable to making curries. I think the powder is great to add a curry taste to other dishes, but IMO a curry dish requires more than mere curry powder can deliver.

Finally please note that my area of expertise is Thai curries, and that I know very little about Indian curries, nor do I like Indian curries. Anything I've said should be considered knowing that what I say applies to Thai curries, not Indian curries. Personally, I don't like Patak's, but then you now know why.


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## Caslon (Jun 2, 2012)

Greg Who Cooks said:


> Finally please note that my area of expertise is Thai curries, and that I know very little about Indian curries, nor do I like Indian curries. Anything I've said should be considered knowing that what I say applies to Thai curries, not Indian curries. .



Noted, thanks. This thread will self-destruct in 60 seconds.


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## blissful (Jun 2, 2012)

Maybe some of you curry guru's could make a suggestion for a small bit of curry sauce made with Thai Red Curry (what I have in the fridge).

I'd like some 'taste' of curry to use over some chickpeas/small red beans/brown rice.

(I could add some beef or chicken or whatever--it's just not currently on my personal menu.)

Can you make a little, say 1/2 cup of sauce, using the Thai Red Curry? What do you suggest? I like citrus, creamy, some salt, all vegetables/fruits. Ideas?


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jun 2, 2012)

Note that you can use part of the curry paste from a can, then transfer the rest to a glass dish covered with plastic wrap and it will last months in your refrigerator. Throw it out when/if it changes in appearance.

Blissful it sounds like you're making an Indian curry (chick peas, brown rice, beans) so I have no idea. Speak up if you're willing to add coconut milk.


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## blissful (Jun 2, 2012)

It might sound like indian--but since I wouldn't know the difference, let's just pretend it's thai.
Sure I can use coconut milk, what next?


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jun 2, 2012)

My basic Thai recipe with no additions is to place a modest amount of coconut milk in a wok and heat it up until it's warm enough to dissolve the curry paste. Add some paste and keep stirring until the coconut milk and paste are evenly mixed. Add enough additional coconut milk to suit the size of your full recipe and simmer it for about 20 minutes, stirring as required. Add some fish sauce to taste, stir, then add your meat, poultry, fish, shrimp, whatever, continue cooking another 20 minutes or until the meat is tender. You would add various vegetables as you go along, depending on what kind of curry you're making. This would make a pretty plain curry.

My advice is to google curry recipes and pick and choose whatever ingredients that appeal to you.


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## Zereh (Jun 2, 2012)

The majority of curries I've made (Thai style) call for putting the curry paste in first before any liquid is called for.

Steamed Mussels with Lemongrass Coconut Curry is simple, with only a handful of ingredients, yet has outstanding flavor. I've made it many times to rave reviews. 

Also this Thai Green Chicken Curry is a great recipe. You make your own "curry paste" for this one rather than using a pre-made one. This is another outstanding one I can highly recommend. Reheated leftovers the next day make you fall in love with it all over again.

"Curry" really just means spice mix and curry powder from a tin isn't really used often in  home-style Indian cooking. Instead the curry flavor profile is created by using individual herbs and spices. Some spices are ground from whole, some are toasted, some are given a trip through some hot oil until they "pop" and release their flavor. 

There are as many different types of curries as their are kitchens.


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## Zereh (Jun 2, 2012)

This is great: Basic Curry Paste from Honest Cooking

This is a basic tomato based curry paste recipe that is the base of almost all Indian curries. With a slight variation here and there you can make hundreds of curries using this basic curry paste. It can be made in bulk and can be stored for weeks. No more going to the stores and buying jarred month old curry paste that cost you a fortune and don’t taste half as good!

Ingredients / Makes approx. 1.5 cups of wet curry paste:
1 cup chopped onion
1 inch ginger
3-4 cloves of garlic
2-3 green chilis (or any chili pepper of your choice)
dry spice powder)- Only half of it will be used in this recipe for curry paste. You can store the rest in an air tight container for later.  <-- not sure what this is, it's incorrect on the original source as well. =/
2-3 bay leaves
2 tsp cloves
2 tsp peppercorn
3-4 black cardamom
1/2 Cinnamon stick
1/2 tbsp cumin seeds
3 tbsp coriander seeds (you can use 2/2.5 tbsp coriander powder if you don’t have seeds)
other ingredients:
1 tsp turmeric
2 tbsp oil
1 tsp ghee (optional)
Salt to taste
1 cup diced tomato

Grind together ingredients for the wet mix in a food processor or blender/grinder. Use about 3-4 tbsp of water if necessary for the blades to rotate. Set aside.

Grind together all the dry ingredients in a spice or coffee grinder. Set aside.

Heat oil in a thick bottom pan, add wet mix. Cook it on medium high heat until all the water has evaporated. Once the paste starts getting thicker reduce the heat to medium low, add salt and turmeric. Cook until the paste starts changing color and gets golden brown in color.

Add ghee. Very soon oil will start to separate. Add diced tomato. First the tomatoes begin to melt then slowly all the liquid will evaporate. Cook until the mixture has no liquid left.

Now add dry ingredients. Mix everything well together. Your curry paste is ready.

Notes: Now you can add vegetables if you are making a vegetable curry. Add browned, baked, stir fried or deep fried meat to make a meat curry. You can also add it to rice with a few vegetables and make a tahiri (spicy rice pilaf).

This curry paste can be stored in a refrigerator for weeks. All you have to do is let the paste cool down completely and then transfer it to an air tight container and freeze.


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## Steve Kroll (Jun 2, 2012)

> "Curry" really just means spice mix and curry powder from a tin isn't  really used often in  home-style Indian cooking. Instead the curry  flavor profile is created by using individual herbs and spices. Some  spices are ground from whole, some are toasted, some are given a trip  through some hot oil until they "pop" and release their flavor.


Looks like a good recipe, and your description of the spices is spot on. 

It's worth noting that "curry powder" is a western invention. As you say, in India, it's not something that's typically used.

I like to think of curry powder more as a seasoning that's best added in small amounts to bring a little exotic flavor to things like egg salad, vegetables, or soup. But it's not intended to carry an entire dish. In other words, generic curry powder shouldn't be used to make Indian curries, as each dish has its own distinct blend of spices.

To use a western analogy, it would be like putting barbeque sauce on everything and saying that's "American food."


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## blissful (Jun 2, 2012)

Greg Who Cooks said:


> My basic Thai recipe with no additions is to place a modest amount of coconut milk in a wok and heat it up until it's warm enough to dissolve the curry paste. Add some paste and keep stirring until the coconut milk and paste are evenly mixed. Add enough additional coconut milk to suit the size of your full recipe and simmer it for about 20 minutes, stirring as required. Add some fish sauce to taste, stir, then add your meat, poultry, fish, shrimp, whatever, continue cooking another 20 minutes or until the meat is tender. You would add various vegetables as you go along, depending on what kind of curry you're making. This would make a pretty plain curry.
> 
> My advice is to google curry recipes and pick and choose whatever ingredients that appeal to you.



Okay I started with some chopped onions and garlic in a little oil, then followed your recipe. No meat--just today's preference. 
Broccoli
Radish slices
carrot diced
4 colors strips of bell peppers
pea pods
then added:
fresh ginger
black pepper
salt (wasn't enough and I rarely use it)

It smells good and I like it. The flavors/smells were better after 40 minutes of cooking than they were at 20 minutes. 

I think I'm looking for something stronger tasting the next time I made something like this--for a change.

Thanks Greg.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jun 2, 2012)

Bliss, I'm just curious what curry paste you used, brand and flavor.

You seem to be at a stage that I was for many years, just sort of currying something up. You've picked some good vegetables but they're sort of random vegetables. I'm not criticizing--believe me I did that for years. I'm not even sure what jolted me out of my habit of cooking miscellaneous curries.

One day a few years ago maybe I was struck with some sort of insanity, because I got a few Thai cookbooks and did a lot of Internet researching recipes, and for a period of about 6 weeks I cooked Thai food about 6 days a week. I focused on cooking specific Thai recipes, and many if not most of them were curries. At the end of that period I could cook almost anything curry style but I came away with specific curry recipes, much the same as if you go to a Thai restaurant and order off the menu.

So I hope you came away from this with a good experience, and I hope I can encourage you to seek specific Thai curry recipes (or Indian curries if you like them) and follow the recipes, although don't worry too much if you want to change them. That's one of the things I came away with is that you can always leave a few things out or add a few more things in (except for a very few basics).

I think I'm sending a mixed message here. On one hand seek some detailed recipes, on the other hand feel free to change them. I think a lot of intense experience following recipes is a good background for learning how different recipes work, and how to get a perspective on what can be changed.

In my temporary situation I have a very poor kitchen and don't cook much at all. When I have access to a good kitchen like I did in the past, and hope to have again one day soon, I typically cook Asian more than once a week, and the Asian I cook is mostly Thai and Chinese. Out of all of that I probably cook curries more than anything else.

So next time you want to cook curry start a topic and feel free to nudge me via PM and let's see if we can get you cooking a curry that you might find on a restaurant menu. I think you'll benefit from a structured experience rather than an impromptu experience like you're doing now.

And again what brand and variety/flavor of paste did you use?


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jun 2, 2012)

blissful said:


> salt (wasn't enough and I rarely use it)



Put the salt away. You don't need salt in Asian recipes. Soy sauce is salty. Fish sauce (Thai: _nam pla_) is salty. Asians use salty liquids for seasoning more often than elemental salt like Westerners use.

I suppose there are exceptions but my salt shaker stays in the cupboard when I'm cooking Asian. Don't need it.


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## blissful (Jun 2, 2012)

Thanks.
The brand is "Thai Kitchen" Red Curry Paste.

Oh, and I wanted to add--this is the first curry I've had that I liked. I've never had it at a restaurant.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jun 2, 2012)

Ah, okay, I've seen Thai Kitchen brand on the shelves of mainstream supermarkets. "Red" curry is one of the most popular general flavors, arguably the most popular. You should do some scouting and see if you have any Asian markets in your vicinity. If nothing else you'll pay much less for your ingredients, and find more variety and a wide selection of fresh ingredients if you have a local Asian grocer.

Fortunately many Asian ingredients are becoming mainstream in larger cities. See if you can find lemongrass, Kaffir lime leaves, galangal (not 100% required), Thai chilis, (and if you want to cook more Thai recipes see if you can find "Thai" or "Holy" basil). Many of the necessary ingredients are already mainstream and/or used in so many ethnic recipes that they are widely available, like cilantro, garlic, ginger.

Look for Maesri or Mae Ploy curry paste. Look for much better prices on coconut milk. One of my favorite curry ingredients is coconut cream. I have never heard anybody else discuss coconut cream so I'll have to accept this is one of my own personal quirks, although they sell it. I like it because it's thicker.

Other things I add to curries: shrimp paste (do not, repeat do not, smell it). People think fish sauce smells bad but it's all in their head. Smell some. Put some in a spoon and taste it. Oh BTW do not taste raw galangal. It's horribly bitter, I tasted it once and now I understand its purpose in Asian cooking. Taste some raw ginger, not especially good to munch on either but good to get an idea of what it contributes.

Bliss, do you have any Thai restaurants in your area? If not don't worry. If you liked what you made I think we can help you reach the point where you might even be the best Thai food chef in your area!


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## blissful (Jun 2, 2012)

There are some thai restaurants in Milwaukee, a little over an hour away.
I just don't eat out much.
This one is the closest: http://www.lemongrassbistro.com/menu.pdf
I've not eaten there. The menu is interesting, but, if they serve burgers--it doesn't sound dedicated to thai food, to me anyways.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Jun 2, 2012)

Don't worry Blissful. At least you may become the best Thai curry chef within many miles. I wouldn't drive an hour to eat dinner either.

Scope out your local Asian markets if any, and lemme know what you find.

One of my own problems is facing that I may not always have access to Asian markets since I don't know if I'll end up here in L.A. with all our Asian food options, or maybe I'll move somewhere else with no Asian food. I won't mind seeing if I can help you discover Asian food sources in an area of the country with no Asian food sources because I may end up there too, and helping you will prepare me to help myself if I end up in a similar area.

If I do end up there at least I might end up being the best Thai cooking expert within 100 miles. At present I'm pretty sure I'm the best Thai cooking expert within 100 feet...

Okay 10 feet... I know for sure my dog can't cook Thai... or at least I've never known him to do that...


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## blissful (Jun 2, 2012)

Greg Who Cooks said:


> If I do end up there at least I might end up being the best Thai cooking expert within 100 miles. At present I'm pretty sure I'm the best Thai cooking expert within 100 feet...
> 
> Okay 10 feet... I know for sure my dog can't cook Thai... or at least I've never known him to do that...


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