# C'mon. Smoking prime rib?



## McDaddy (Dec 25, 2014)

I know the traditional method but... bearing in mind the cost and quality of a standing prime rib roast, how can you smoke one and still get the crust?


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## CraigC (Dec 25, 2014)

Why would you smoke a prime rib? My family loves my brisket, but would consider a tender cut ruined if smoked.


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## McDaddy (Dec 25, 2014)

I don't know. That's why I asked. I like to smoke meat and was just curious.


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## RPCookin (Dec 25, 2014)

Go the the Beef forum in the Smoking Meats Forum and see.  There are a dozen different threads from various guys smoking different size rib roasts.  They smoke it first, then either sear it on the grill, or in a 500° oven for just a few minutes to crust it if needed.  They look wonderful, and most of them say that once you've eaten one that was smoked, you'll never be satisfied with one done in the oven again.  

I'm not sure I agree with that last statement, because one thing that they don't get is pan drippings, and I consider that a necessary ingredient for my au jus recipe.


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## Andy M. (Dec 25, 2014)

You don't have to cook low and slow to add smoke.  Roast your PR at 350ºF-400ºF along with smoke.


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## RPCookin (Dec 26, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> You don't have to cook low and slow to add smoke.  Roast your PR at 350ºF-400ºF along with smoke.



Depending on what you prefer, you can actually get better results going low (not just from that forum, but a couple of other recipes I've read say the same), even if you don't smoke.  I have one recipe that specifies cooking at 200° for about 5 hours (internal temp 125°), then letting it rest from 30 minutes up to a couple of hours, then doing the high temp crust for 10 minutes and the entire roast is a perfect medium rare End to end and crust to crust, no sign of any gray around the edges.  

I didn't use this method simply because I had a group that included some who prefer medium, so I cooked it at 325° until the probe read 132°, then let it rest for 30 minutes to get medium rare in the middle, but medium to medium+ toward the ends.


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## McDaddy (Dec 26, 2014)

Hey, thanks. After considering everything I guess I should do it the traditional way as this is my first attempt at cooking a SRibRoast. Don't think I feel confidant enough to try putting a crust on after the cut. Not saying it can't be done but I am feeding many and don't want any undo surprises.


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## Roll_Bones (Dec 26, 2014)

McDaddy said:


> Hey, thanks. After considering everything I guess I should do it the traditional way as this is my first attempt at cooking a SRibRoast. Don't think I feel confidant enough to try putting a crust on after the cut. Not saying it can't be done but I am feeding many and don't want any undo surprises.



I agree. Testing something for guests is not smart.
Also, this is one expensive cut and should be treated as such.
I would use a tried method, like Craigs.

500F for 5 minutes. Lower oven to 200F and roast 1 hour per pound.


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## GotGarlic (Dec 26, 2014)

Mine was a small, 3-pound roast and it was done in two hours. I think it's better to go by temperature than time. I kept it warm in the oven set at 170F and it was great. I also seared it in a cast iron pan rather than in a hot oven. I just felt like I had more control that way.


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## RPCookin (Dec 26, 2014)

Roll_Bones said:


> I agree. Testing something for guests is not smart.
> Also, this is one expensive cut and should be treated as such.
> I would use a tried method, like Craigs.
> 
> 500F for 5 minutes. Lower oven to 200F and roast 1 hour per pound.



I have at least 4 different methods in my Living Cookbook now for doing a rib roast, and every one is is tried and proven.  No one method is better than any other, they all work well when done as instructed, but ALL of them strongly recommend using a good thermometer.  Most say that the time per pound method is nothing more than a ball park estimate, and the larger the roast, the less likely it is to work.  For a really large roast, it is guaranteed to fail.



GotGarlic said:


> Mine was a small, 3-pound roast and it was done in two hours. *I think it's better to go by temperature than time.* I kept it warm in the oven set at 170F and it was great. I also seared it in a cast iron pan rather than in a hot oven. I just felt like I had more control that way.



Yes, definitely.  The time idea only applies to a cut that is about as long as it is thick, and even then you are guessing.  The cooking process will penetrate to the center by the shortest route.  A 14 pound boneless rib roast like I had was quite a bit longer than it was thick, and cooking it for 15 minutes per pound would have put it at 3.5 hours, yet it hit 130° in the center in under 2 hours - another hour and a half and I'd have had a nice door stop.  

The only way I will ever cook a roast (beef, pork, lamb, chicken, turkey, even meat loaf) is with a good probe thermometer (mine is the Chef Alarm from Thermoworks) in the center of the thickest part (not close to a bone).  Anything else is just guessing, and that's no way to treat a good piece of meat.


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## GotGarlic (Dec 26, 2014)

RPCookin said:


> The only way I will ever cook a roast (beef, pork, lamb, chicken, turkey, even meat loaf) is with a good probe thermometer (mine is the Chef Alarm from Thermoworks) in the center of the thickest part (not close to a bone).  Anything else is just guessing, and that's no way to treat a good piece of meat.



My Jenn-Air gas oven came with a probe thermometer that you plug into the side of the oven; then you set the probe temp to the desired finished temp and the oven temp to what you want. I set the finished temp to 128F and set the oven temp to 170 after it was done. It held beautifully till the sides were done.

I gave DH a Weber charcoal smoker for Christmas, so we may try smoking one later this year.


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## Roll_Bones (Dec 27, 2014)

RPCookin said:


> I have at least 4 different methods in my Living Cookbook now for doing a rib roast, and every one is is tried and proven.  No one method is better than any other, they all work well when done as instructed, but ALL of them strongly recommend using a good thermometer.  Most say that the time per pound method is nothing more than a ball park estimate, and the larger the roast, the less likely it is to work.  For a really large roast, it is guaranteed to fail.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No matter the method, I too recommend checking the temperature to be certain.
Just because I recommend a method does not mean i don't want you to measure the temperature of your food.

For the record. I would trust Craigs method without the need for a probe as I like my roast rare.
I would pull it out at the time indicated and allow it to rest.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Dec 28, 2014)

GotGarlic said:


> My Jenn-Air gas oven came with a probe thermometer that you plug into the side of the oven; then you set the probe temp to the desired finished temp and the oven temp to what you want. I set the finished temp to 128F and set the oven temp to 170 after it was done. It held beautifully till the sides were done.
> 
> I gave DH a Weber charcoal smoker for Christmas, so we may try smoking one later this year.



I'm probably sounding like a broken record by now, but my best prime, standing rib roast was done on a Webber Kettle, with a divided bed of charcoal and a drip pan between the charcoal beds and directly under the roast to catch juices for the au jus.  And yes, I used a meat thermometer, and yes, I salted the  outer surface of the meat before cooking.

It was as tender, and juicy as another standing rib roast that was cooked by the _heat, then turn off the oven and let sit _ method given to us by the butcher, but with the slight smokey goodness of meat cooked by charcoal.  It wasn't smoked, as in adding smoking wood to the fire, but rather picked up that bit of smoke that enhances the natural beef flavor without replacing it.

Next time I get a standing rib roast, I'm going to try the technique where the roast is encased in salt an roasted.  I've heard very good things about that method.

Seeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## medtran49 (Dec 29, 2014)

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> Next time I get a standing rib roast, I'm going to try the technique where the roast is encased in salt an roasted. I've heard very good things about that method.
> 
> Seeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


 
We did that back a few months ago with an eye of round (I think) that had an oil/herb marinade overnight, then dried, then salt crusted and roasted.  It was pretty good but I missed the crust from the direct heat.  To me, not really worth it in terms of cost of salt plus time to get it packed on and the mess when it was broken after cooking.  Even though I tried to be as careful as possible and broke the crust in the pan, salt still managed to fly out and make a mess.


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## Paymaster (Jan 3, 2015)

I do mine( standing rib roast ) on the Akorn. After doing several, it is now my and my families preferred method. That said, I have never put out the coin for Prime, just choice.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Jan 3, 2015)

That last picture is what my Sunday dinner SHOULD look like each week.

Bravo Paymaster!


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## RPCookin (Jan 3, 2015)

Paymaster said:


> I do mine( standing rib roast ) on the Akorn. After doing several, it is now my and my families preferred method. That said, I have never put out the coin for Prime, just choice.



Actually, prime rib doesn't have to be prime grade.  If it is cut from the primal ribs (fifth to tenth rib) of the beef, then it can be called a prime rib roast, and it's such a good cut that most people can't tell if it is prime or choice.  At least that is what I've read, and seen charts depicting.

Primal cuts


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## Andy M. (Jan 3, 2015)

RPCookin said:


> Actually, prime rib doesn't have to be prime grade.  If it is cut from the primal ribs (fifth to tenth rib) of the beef, then it can be called a prime rib roast, and it's such a good cut that most people can't tell if it is prime or choice.  At least that is what I've read, and seen charts depicting.
> 
> Primal cuts




I've read the same thing.  'Prime rib' is now an accepted terminology for a standing rib roast.  

Re: the linked chart - I'd guess that chart is meant for trained butchers as I find it difficult to follow.


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## Roll_Bones (Jan 4, 2015)

Paymaster said:


> I do mine( standing rib roast ) on the Akorn. After doing several, it is now my and my families preferred method. That said, I have never put out the coin for Prime, just choice.



Do you route the probe cable out the bottom vent?
Looks good.  Very good. A little more rare for me though.


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## Paymaster (Jan 4, 2015)

Roll_Bones said:


> Do you route the probe cable out the bottom vent?
> Looks good.  Very good. A little more rare for me though.



No, I run the cable out the lid opening. The gasket seals around it fine.
 The roast was cooked the way the most squeamish of the diners, my daughter, likes it cooked. I would have preferred more rare as well.


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## Dawgluver (Jan 4, 2015)

Nice nice, Paymaster!  I would happily eat it!


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## Cooking4to (Jan 5, 2015)

I have had smoke rib roast, I haven't done it myself and I personally like my recipe better than the smoked I had.  I figure if you want smoke flavor and the meat is fatty and not going to benefit much by slow smoking it, get liquid smoke...

I think people try to complicate even the simple, one of the attractions to a rib roast is the ease of it...  

I buy them from a local butcher, $5.10 per lb for choice {have to buy the hole thing, normally 18 lbs ish}...  I trim the fat, cut it off the bone, tie it {1 1/4" spaces and around the endcuts, I know a lot of people don't tie it around but I have been doing it so long its just muscle memory at this point}, I then salt and pepper the bone, coat the entire tied rib with lipton onion soup mix, and then tie it back to the bone...

A room temperature rib goes in the oven prepped in about the time it takes for the oven to pre heat to 475, I cook it at 475 for 15-20 minutes, then lower it to 315. I pull it when its at 120, cover it with a towel for about 45 minutes, cut the ties so it falls off the bone then trim like a boneless roast...

I will only cook prime rib if I am doing a large piece, if I am cooking a small roast just for me and the kids, I will get a nice boneless strip roast for $1  more a lb, its a no brainer, cook it almost the same way with the lipton soup mix and temperature wise...

Anyway sorry for the long post, got a little off topic there, I can live with out smoked rib roasts, now brisket, shoulder clod, and any pork cut on the other hand, smoke and be happy...


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## Andy M. (Jan 5, 2015)

Cooking4to said:


> ... I figure if you want smoke flavor and the meat is fatty and not going to benefit much by slow smoking it...
> 
> ...brisket, shoulder clod, and any pork cut on the other hand, smoke and be happy...




Plenty of fat on brisket and pork butt/shoulder.  They do well low and slow smoked.


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## Cooking4to (Jan 5, 2015)

Andy M. said:


> Plenty of fat on brisket and pork butt/shoulder.  They do well low and slow smoked.



I may have worded that wrong, I meant the meat is fatty, like infused better, easier to cook, with brisket and shoulder the fat is on the outside or in big tracks throughout, with the rib it seems to be throughout the cut, so cooking it super slow after its sealed up doesn't make a big difference, where if you cook a brisket fast, it will be like chewing on my boot...  {fast is also the wrong word, I am talking 300-350}...   
I always figured the cheaper cuts needed to be slow smoked, rubbed, and sang to and the good cuts could be cooked by a monkey with a cigarette lighter and still be edible...  You either pay for the meat with money or get a cheap piece and pay with labor and time...  

I have a nice piece of meat I bought at the butchers Saturday, its a part off the shoulder he had marked $1.19 lb!!! Its soaking right now,  I am going to mix a rub, tenderize it a bit, and hick smoke it at the serving temperature until its cooked through {could take a day, lol} and it will come delicious and be worth every second it takes...  Now if I just cut that into a steak and threw it on a smoking skillet, flipped it after 3 minutes and covered it with onions, like I would do with a rib or strip and it would be about good enough for my dog, but a rib or strip will cost me $10+ a lb {gets expensive when you buy small cuts}...

So anyway, sorry about that, I was insinuating good marbling with better cuts of meat, so they are easier to cook and remain edible...


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## Andy M. (Jan 5, 2015)

Got it.  Well marbled vs. fatty.  

Was it pork shoulder you got for $1.19?  Smoking will be tough in the extra cold temps we're expecting this week.


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## RPCookin (Jan 5, 2015)

Andy M. said:


> Got it.  Well marbled vs. fatty.
> 
> Was it pork shoulder you got for $1.19?  Smoking will be tough in the extra cold temps we're expecting this week.



Yeah, especially if it requires regular attention.  Just put the Christmas trappings away in the garage, and it was COLD.  I couldn't even consider doing any low and slow right now... grilling yes, but barbecue, not so much.


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## Cooking4to (Jan 5, 2015)

Andy M. said:


> Got it.  Well marbled vs. fatty.
> 
> Was it pork shoulder you got for $1.19?  Smoking will be tough in the extra cold temps we're expecting this week.



Beef shoulder clod...  I smoke in the garage, and its heated   I know shoulder roasts are tough business, but depending on the meat, if you do it right they come out tender and tasty.


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## Roll_Bones (Jan 8, 2015)

Paymaster said:


> No, I run the cable out the lid opening. The gasket seals around it fine.
> The roast was cooked the way the most squeamish of the diners, my daughter, likes it cooked. I would have preferred more rare as well.



So you squash the cable between the lid and the kettle?
I know its armored cable, but I don't think that's what they had in mind when they (manufacturer) chose sensor cable.  Or is that how they recommend you use it?

Are you not concerned you will ruin this cable?  If you pinch it hard enough you will have what is called a cold joint.
A cold joint is where the wires are touching each other.  Its measuring the temp at the exact spot the individual wires contained in the cable are in contact with each other.  Not at the sensor anymore.


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## Paymaster (Jan 8, 2015)

Roll_Bones said:


> So you squash the cable between the lid and the kettle?
> I know its armored cable, but I don't think that's what they had in mind when they (manufacturer) chose sensor cable.  Or is that how they recommend you use it?
> 
> Are you not concerned you will ruin this cable?  If you pinch it hard enough you will have what is called a cold joint.
> A cold joint is where the wires are touching each other.  Its measuring the temp at the exact spot the individual wires contained in the cable are in contact with each other.  Not at the sensor anymore.



There is enough give in the gasket material used, that there is no crimp , bend or kink. Smoke rarely leaks where the cable come through either.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jan 8, 2015)

Roll_Bones said:


> So you squash the cable between the lid and the kettle?
> I know its armored cable, but I don't think that's what they had in mind when they (manufacturer) chose sensor cable.  Or is that how they recommend you use it?
> 
> Are you not concerned you will ruin this cable?  If you pinch it hard enough you will have what is called a cold joint.
> A cold joint is where the wires are touching each other.  Its measuring the temp at the exact spot the individual wires contained in the cable are in contact with each other.  Not at the sensor anymore.



Doesn't the probe thermometer work by measuring the current through a thermistor in the end of the probe?  That was my understanding.  If there was a short between the wires, where the wire was pinched, you would get max current flow, renduring the temperature gauge useless.  But it would not be measuring the thermistor regulated current at all.  In either case though, the temperature from a shorted cable would not be accurate at all.

The other possible scenario of a pinched cable would be wire broken inside the insulation, resulting in an open, with no current flow at all, again rendering the temperature gauge useless.

With my Webber Kettle, I have ruined a couple of digital probe thermometers by pinching the cable with the lid.  Glad that doesn't happen on your gear, Paymaster.

Seeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## Roll_Bones (Jan 9, 2015)

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> Doesn't the probe thermometer work by measuring the current through a thermistor in the end of the probe?  That was my understanding.  If there was a short between the wires, where the wire was pinched, you would get max current flow, renduring the temperature gauge useless.  But it would not be measuring the thermistor regulated current at all.  In either case though, the temperature from a shorted cable would not be accurate at all.
> 
> The other possible scenario of a pinched cable would be wire broken inside the insulation, resulting in an open, with no current flow at all, again rendering the temperature gauge useless.
> 
> ...



Depends on the sensor. Thermocouple or RTD.
With a thermocouple, the connection of the two (wires) dissimilar metals creates a voltage read in millivolts. This would be the sensor that would continue to work, but measure the temp at the connection no matter where it resides. 

The RTD uses a resistance change to signal the readout.  A "cold joint" (shorted leads) with an RTD would signal failure if the readout/controller was smart enough to know the leads were shorted and fault.  Or just plain be way off as far as displayed temp.  We would need to know more about his specific probe and readout/controller to be certain.
I doubt they are using RTD's in this application. But I am not certain.

That's the best i can do Chief.  I hope it makes some sense.


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