# Dining out sure has changed..



## Kayelle (Jul 13, 2014)

in the last 10 years. This amazing article shows why.  Don't miss the comments at the bottom.  

NY Restaurant Figures Out Surprising Reason for Customer Complaints


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## creative (Jul 13, 2014)

Well the changes in customer habits all seem good to me, i.e. more interactive with staff and more critical of the food they are presented - meaning they are less able to be fobbed off with sub standard fare.


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## Addie (Jul 13, 2014)

I think the wait staff need training in how to return rudeness back to the customer. A simple "I'm sorry, we are not allowed to take group photos. We are only allowed to wait table as fast as we can." 

If they haven't touched their food in the first three minutes, the wait person can go over and ask if there is a problem with their food. "I've noticed you haven't eaten very much. Do you want to return it to the kitchen with your complaint? "  

That empty chair you put all you stuff on? Just like they remove the non used table setting, removed any extra chairs. 

There are ways to call attention to their rudeness. 

Lastly, take down the facebook site and not read their complaints. Don't give the customer a place to voice their complaints.


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## CarolPa (Jul 13, 2014)

We eat out a lot and although we have seen a lot of people talking or texting, we've never seen people taking pictures of their food or of each other, but the places we go to eat are not usually places who cater to the younger crowd.  In other words, we go for the senior citizen early birds.  LOL

DH is very picky about where he sits and will request a specific section or table.  We go out to eat because we are hungry.  We order, we eat, we leave.  I do notice that many people are with groups and for them it is a social situation where they spend a lot of time talking and visiting with each other.  I don't see that as a problem as long as they don't blame waits on the staff.   When we are finished, DH wants the check so we can leave.  I think sometimes if a server is very busy, she will let you wait for the check so she doesn't get a new group at that table.  It let's her get a breather.  Others want more tips, so they are trying to clear away the dishes while you're still eating.  The thing that bothers me is when either the server or the manager stops at the table every 3 minutes asking how everything is.  But if you really need something, the server is no where in sight.


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## Addie (Jul 13, 2014)

There are many of us who have at one time or another, been a waitperson. I can still remember one customer I had 40 years ago. Her and her daughter came in every Friday night. The worst night to have a difficult customer. But I loved serving these two. If they were to be seated elsewhere, the mother would say that she would wait until they could sit in my section. The daughter was in a facility for special needs folks. The mother picked her up every Friday and brought her home for the weekend. But first they stopped at the restaurant. They always ordered the lobster special. The daughter made the biggest mess. But she was so happy to be allowed in a restaurant, you couldn't help but love her. The mother was so grateful that her child was allowed in a restaurant and they didn't have to go to the drive-thru at McDonald's. Sure it took me longer to clean the wall, table, floor and any empty chair. But I didn't care. The happiness of these two, had to be contagious. Sometimes at the beginning when they first started to show up, I would see the mother trying to clean up some of the mess before they left. The mother always left a good tip. 

Then a couple of Fridays went by and they didn't show up. Then the mother came in alone. Her daughter had died. She got the Friday night special on the house. A couple of weeks later an envelope came in the mail to the restaurant with Att.: Adele the waitress. In it was the most touching letter with a sizable check. The chef in the kitchen also got a letter and check along with some of the other staff. For the rest of the night, my customers had a very weepy server. The mother occasionally would come and I can promise you she always got the very best service of the very top restaurant in the country. Not because of the checks, but because she became a very favorite customer. The check has been long gone, but I still have my memory of these two favorite customers.


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## taxlady (Jul 13, 2014)

creative said:


> Well the changes in customer habits all seem good to me, i.e. more interactive with staff and more critical of the food they are presented - meaning they are less able to be fobbed off with sub standard fare.


They aren't more critical of the food. They are sending food back to be reheated because it got cold while they were faffing with their phones. It probably would have tasted better without reheating.

The problem is that people are complaining about the slow service that they cause.

I don't know why that wait person minds the pix of the food. I sometimes post them on FaceBook and when friends see pix and a comment that the food was great, they are more likely to try that resto.


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## taxlady (Jul 13, 2014)

Lovely story Addie.


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## creative (Jul 13, 2014)

taxlady said:


> They aren't more critical of the food. They are sending food back to be reheated because it got cold while they were faffing with their phones. It probably would have tasted better without reheating.
> 
> The problem is that people are complaining about the slow service that they cause.
> 
> I don't know why that wait person minds the pix of the food. I sometimes post them on FaceBook and when friends see pix and a comment that the food was great, they are more likely to try that resto.


Oh I see...sorry, I didn't pick that up - not something I have seen happen here in UK but then I don't dine out a lot.

They say FB is a factor in forums becoming inactive.....(I am on 2 other forums, apart from this one, and they are suffering/slowly becoming more inactive).


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## Zagut (Jul 13, 2014)

Kayelle said:


> Don't miss the comments at the bottom.


 
The comments are usually the best part. 


I like this one. 

"Can humans just give up and let penguins try the intelligent species thing? We've pretty much struck out."


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## Katie H (Jul 13, 2014)

Whether or not the account is true or fake, it only points out that good manners have been forgotten and/or are totally disregarded by way too many people.

Those diners who simply _have_ to be connected in some way to their cell phones are almost like hardened addicts who cannot live without their drugs.

How in the world would they have managed in days, not to long passed, before cell phones were only part of someone's imagination?  None of us died or exploded because we missed a perceived "important" call.  In this instance, define "important."

Courtesy and good manners dictate that consideration be given those who are serving us and wish to provide a pleasant dining experience for us.  It works both ways, people!  Being a good diner requires that we do our part, too.

I suppose it's because of my age, the way I was brought up and the region in which I lived (the South) that shaped my views.

No male ever came to the table with his hat/cap on no matter how casual or formal the meal.  Not a single fork or spoon was lifted until everyone was seated, nor did anyone leave the table until the last person ate all they wished and indicated they were done.

I think a lot of what drives behavior today is that, for some reason, we feel we always have to be in a hurry.  Yes, schedules are tight and we pursue a variety of activities and jobs account for much of our time, some of which is our "free" time.

However, if dining out is meant to be a pleasant and relaxing activity, make it so.  Take your time.  Turn off your phones, engage in conversation with those around you.  Talk to people face-to-face and really participate in your time around the table.  Your food will taste better, it will probably remain at an acceptable temperature and the service will be good.

Oop!  Got carried away.  I'll get off my soapbox now.


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## Addie (Jul 13, 2014)

I am so grateful I taught my kids manners. The problem is that when they put them into practice, other younger folks look at them with a quizzical look as if to say, "What are you doing?"


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## chiklitmanfan (Jul 13, 2014)

"We have met the enemy and they are US." We have wrapped our minds around this smartphone technology to the extent that Einstein declared  (and I paraphrase) "We have become a nation of idiots."

Aside from all that, my wife and I have never considered eating out a good value. The food is normally loaded with too much fat, too much salt, or too much sugar and handled with questionable cleanliness. The atmosphere at most places is not conducive to good conversation because of the acoustics in most eateries. (remember before smartphones when we actually conversed with each other?) Coffee or tea for $2.50 or more? You gotta be kidding. Wine for $7.00 to $$$$$ a glass? Our friends would much rather get together by bringing our food offerings and fellowship in the peace and intimacy of a host home.


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## Kayelle (Jul 13, 2014)

Let me get on that soapbox with you Katie. I agree with every word you said, especially this.."However, if dining out is meant to be a pleasant and relaxing activity,  make it so.  Take your time.  Turn off your phones, engage in  conversation with those around you.  Talk to people face-to-face and  really participate in your time around the table."
It's down right insulting to me to have a cell phone an active member of the table.


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## creative (Jul 13, 2014)

The way I see it, it is a 2 way situation re. someone on their mobile whilst you are out with them.  I would tolerate the odd text or call but not if it is intrusive.  Where people lack manners, it is never too late to turn this around, i.e. we are all influenced by our peer groups so if it was seen as rude/insulting to have conversation interrupted with a call, then it is up to us to not just bite our lip and stay silent but to stand up for our beliefs!!!  I have no problem with this but people tend to be _superficially polite_, i.e. not authentic.  I see it everywhere - there's a saying "life is real when you are".  Those who favour politeness don't realise it is possible to voice an opinion tactfully, i.e. diplomacy is key.


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## Zagut (Jul 13, 2014)

Hmmmmmm........


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## chiklitmanfan (Jul 13, 2014)

Creative, I see you are from the U K.  Unless this insidious practice we are discussing has indeed spread to your Isle and the continent, most Europeans have learned the fine art of dining. (We have not visited the UK or continent for about 15 years so I may be way behind the curve)


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## Katie H (Jul 13, 2014)

creative said:


> The way I see it, it is a 2 way situation re. someone on their mobile whilst you are out with them.  I would tolerate the odd text or call but not if it is intrusive.  Where people lack manners, it is never too late to turn this around, i.e. we are all influenced by our peer groups so if it was seen as rude/insulting to have conversation interrupted with a call, then it is up to us to not just bite our lip and stay silent but to stand up for our beliefs!!!  I have no problem with this but people tend to be _superficially polite_, i.e. not authentic.  I see it everywhere - there's a saying "life is real when you are".  Those who favour politeness don't realise it is possible to voice an opinion tactfully, i.e. diplomacy is key.



True enough, creative.  We've become the "have a nice day" and "how are you" mentality, robotic if you will.  The "nice day" is just a collection of words that have come to have no real meaning and inquiring as to how one _is_ means little as well.

Sadly, some of what I see when I am out is a collection of doormats who appear to have little spine and no gumption to stand up to things that should be addressed as you say in a tactful way.  Diplomacy isn't something only relegated to nations, it's something we can all practice.

Yes, there is a way to let someone know that a word or act is bothersome.  Even though we wish to call someone a jerk outright, especially if they are, we have to couch our words in a way in which to convey our annoyance or displeasure courteously.  Therein lies the rub.

Unfortunately, many I see - many of  our youth - feel the need to express this sort of situation with the single digit salute, which can result in escalating the situation.  No diplomacy there.

I think, at least for myself, I have to weigh how important my fight/cause is and act accordingly, along with taking into consideration the setting in which the incident takes place.  I learned a long time ago that there are some things that are really, really not worrying about or getting my bloomers in a bunch over.

However, I will say that I do have certain standards and principles and prefer to live my life accordingly.  And...some of that includes manners for all and basic human consideration.


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## Cheryl J (Jul 13, 2014)

Well said, Katie. 

It's annoying to hear people speak loudly on their phones, or hear text alerts going off continuously at the next table when I'm in a restaurant.  I have taken occasional food pics in a restaurant before, but inconspicuously as possible (and never in a fine dining restaurant), and wait till I get home to load them. I'm there to eat and talk with the people I'm with.  

And as to the "have a nice day" response from many folks nowadays that seem to have no inflection or well-meaning to it....another pet peeve I have is when I'm being handed my purchases in a store, I say "Thank you", and instead of saying "you're welcome", the clerk says "no problem".  That's happening more and more.


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## GotGarlic (Jul 13, 2014)

Katie H said:


> Sadly, some of what I see when I am out is a collection of doormats who appear to have little spine and no gumption to stand up to things that should be addressed as you say in a tactful way.  Diplomacy isn't something only relegated to nations, it's something we can all practice.
> ...
> Yes, there is a way to let someone know that a word or act is bothersome.  Even though we wish to call someone a jerk outright, especially if they are, we have to couch our words in a way in which to convey our annoyance or displeasure courteously.  Therein lies the rub.



Here's an option: Miss Manners: Cellphone discourtesy defeats host's careful planning - The Washington Post


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## Kayelle (Jul 13, 2014)

creative said:


> The way I see it, it is a 2 way situation re. someone on their mobile whilst you are out with them.  I would tolerate the odd text or call but not if it is intrusive.  Where people lack manners, it is never too late to turn this around, i.e. we are all influenced by our peer groups so if it was seen as rude/insulting to have conversation interrupted with a call, then it is up to us to not just bite our lip and stay silent but to stand up for our beliefs!!!  I have no problem with this but people tend to be _superficially polite_, i.e. not authentic.  I see it everywhere - there's a saying "life is real when you are".  Those who favour politeness don't realise it is possible to voice an opinion tactfully, i.e. diplomacy is key.



While I certainly agree with you in theory, Americans tend to be a bit more practical with reality in matters like this. Case in point is this _quote_ by the author Robert Heinlein: “Never try to _teach a pig to sing_; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.”


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## Kayelle (Jul 13, 2014)

GotGarlic said:


> Here's an option: Miss Manners: Cellphone discourtesy defeats host's careful planning - The Washington Post



 That was a priceless read GG!! I just loved..."She suggests waiting for a violation, at which point you can rise and  get the violator’s attention to say, “Please take that in the other  room. We wouldn’t want to annoy you by holding conversation while you  are busy.”


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## GotGarlic (Jul 13, 2014)

Kayelle said:


> That was a priceless read GG!! I just loved..."She suggests waiting for a violation, at which point you can rise and  get the violator’s attention to say, “Please take that in the other  room. We wouldn’t want to annoy you by holding conversation while you  are busy.”



I  Miss Manners


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## GotGarlic (Jul 13, 2014)

Kayelle said:


> While I certainly agree with you in theory, Americans tend to be a bit more practical with reality in matters like this. Case in point is this _quote_ by the author Robert Heinlein: “Never try to _teach a pig to sing_; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.”



Ha! I was just going to ask you if you meant "practical" instead of "piratical." Although the latter was pretty funny!


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## Kayelle (Jul 13, 2014)

Edit function to the rescue again GG, although you're right either would have worked.


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## Cheryl J (Jul 13, 2014)

Kayelle said:


> While I certainly agree with you in theory, Americans tend to be a bit more practical with reality in matters like this. Case in point is this _quote_ by the author Robert Heinlein: “Never try to _teach a pig to sing_; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.”


 
Love it!  I've heard another variation of that by George Bernard Shaw:
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it."


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## Katie H (Jul 13, 2014)

Yep, Miss Manners hit the nail on the head!!!  Love her.

Glenn and I were discussing this thread's topic and one thing he sees as a problem when dining out is that some restaurants place the tables too close together.  I've seen this often, too, and I understand that the more warm bodies who consume a meal means a nicer bottom line for the restauranteur.

However, there are places we won't return to because the tables next to us were so close that the conversations of the people sitting next to us interfered with our own interactions.  Not only that, the simple act of rising to leave the table to go to the restroom necessitated that the person sitting behind him at the next table had to be, um, nudged to move so he could get out of his chair.

About two weeks ago we went to a well-known chain steakhouse for Glenn's birthday.  There were at least a dozen of us in our party, mostly adults.  All the adults had their cell phones with them but, as I recall, no one answered theirs nor did I see any texting going on.  We were all too busy talking and having a good time.

The waiter was busier than a one-armed paperhanger with an itch but he handled everything well and there were no mishaps.  Needless to say, he received a handsome tip.


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## roadfix (Jul 13, 2014)

I know it's illegal here but restaurants, schools, churches, libraries, etc ..should be able to install cell phone signal jammers.  If I knew electronics I would have built one years ago for my business.  What's the matter with people with their cell phones?!


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## Addie (Jul 13, 2014)

My daughter has a list of where she will not answer or call on her phone.

In her car while driving (It could cost her, her job if she is stopped for using her cell phone while driving.)
At work
In a restaurant 
At home after 9 p.m.
In a hospital
And when visiting someone in their home. 

She got so sick of her daughter calling her at the most inopportune times, for the most stupid reasons, that she had to set rules. We liked the idea, so we all agreed to practice them ourselves. Except for me, talking to long distance friends. 

Don't bother to try and call her during these times. She won't respond. If you know her, then you know the rules. So you don't call. When she has a chance, she will peek at who called. Then return the call at her convenience. If she doesn't know you, you may never hear from her. 

On the other hand, my youngest is in medicine. He works in the ER. He answers his phone for every medical call. Also all his emails go to his phone and alerts him. I am quite often awake late into the evening when I know he is sleeping. I will send him an email. I have told him to never answer my call immediately. In fact, sometimes I get no response to my email. Since he is my medical proxy he knows I am not in any danger and if I was the hospital would be calling him, not me. 

I resisted for a long time before I decided to get a cell phone. And then it was only to cut my phone bill down. I opted for the free one. I get 250 minutes a month with 250 something for texting. I have yet to text anyone in my life. Most of my minutes and all of my text things go back unused. This whole family knows what the rules are between us. We don't break them because we know we won't get a response.


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## Kayelle (Jul 13, 2014)

Addie said:


> My daughter has a list of where she will not answer or call on her phone.
> 
> In her car while driving (It could cost her, her job if she is stopped for using her cell phone while driving.)
> At work
> ...



Why are you exempt from the family rule?


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## Addie (Jul 13, 2014)

Kayelle said:


> Why are you exempt from the family rule?



Because I live alone. And if one of my kids haven't checked up on me on a daily basis, they will keep calling until they get an answer from me or another of the siblings. If one calls me and I don't answer, they start to check with each other. If they get a call late at night then they know it is from Poo, my proxy. 

Living alone, I can talk to anyone outside the family whenever I want to. But I don't call any member of the family. I pretty much still to the rules.


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## Kayelle (Jul 13, 2014)

I was just going by what you said previously that you were exempt from the rules when talking to long distance friends, not your family.


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## CarolPa (Jul 13, 2014)

I have been in some businesses who had a sign that read "When you are finished with your phone call, we will be glad to assist you."


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## Addie (Jul 13, 2014)

Kayelle said:


> I was just going by what you said previously that you were exempt from the rules when talking to long distance friends, not your family.



I understand. I can call anyone I want at night as long as it is not a family member. The only time I deliberately broke that rule was when my sister died around midnight. I was all alone and it was the hospital that called me with the news. I didn't even know she was in the hospital or that she had me listed as who to notify. We were each others support system. So to have a doctor call me at that hour and inform me, then I needed support. I had my daughter call her children. Now knowing what it is like to get a call like that in the almost middle of the night, I make sure I don't call my kids or break the family rule.


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## taxlady (Jul 13, 2014)

roadfix said:


> I know it's illegal here but restaurants, schools, churches, libraries, etc ..should be able to install cell phone signal jammers.  If I knew electronics I would have built one years ago for my business.  What's the matter with people with their cell phones?!


They were doing that at movie theatres here for a while. But, doctors on call need to get their calls. There can be other emergencies.

But, there is no reason for someone to be rude about answering and talking. If I get a call from my sister in California, I answer, tell her "just a minute", leave the area of other people and then talk to her. I explain what I'm doing and that the call has to be short.


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## Mad Cook (Jul 13, 2014)

Addie said:


> My daughter has a list of where she will not answer or call on her phone.
> 
> In her car while driving (It could cost her, her job if she is stopped for using her cell phone while driving.)
> At work
> ...


I have to confess that I rather like the text facility on my phone. All my friends know that except in very rare circumstances my mobile is turned off so they leave text messages and I reply when I'm next connected. They know I'll receive the message and they don't have the irritation of making land-line phone calls which aren't picked up. And it means I don't have to spoil coffee with a friend or some important meeting with a ringing mobile.

Needless to say I don't write in text-speak.


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## taxlady (Jul 13, 2014)

GotGarlic said:


> Here's an option: Miss Manners: Cellphone discourtesy defeats host's careful planning - The Washington Post


Love it.

I haven't had any problems with my friends. They see who is calling and decide if it's important. Then, if it is, they excuse themselves and go somewhere where they won't disturb the rest of us. Seems easy enough.


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## GotGarlic (Jul 13, 2014)

taxlady said:


> Love it.
> 
> I haven't had any problems with my friends. They see who is calling and decide if it's important. Then, if it is, they excuse themselves and go somewhere where they won't disturb the rest of us. Seems easy enough.



Thanks, and I agree. My phone tells me who's calling and I have the option to send a text message with a couple of taps telling them I'm busy and will return the call later. If it's important, they can text me back and let me know.


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## creative (Jul 14, 2014)

I just thought of what could be said, tactfully/playfully, if you're at a restaurant and their phone rings.  If they say "mind if I take this?" (and it isn't the first time), you could say "would it make any difference if I said 'yes?'"!  (You could always do it tongue in cheek, i.e. with a slight playfulness in your eyes if you think you might be turned to dust).  

If nothing else (i.e. I doubt that it would directly stop them answering that call - try sighing and looking at your watch whilst they do so), it would jolt their conscience a bit and might make them hesitate the next time.....little acorns...


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## Cooking Goddess (Jul 14, 2014)

creative, I'm afraid that the people who are oblivious to the feelings of those around them are too dense (or self-absorbed) to pick up on small hints. If someone does it repeatedly, I'd be tempted to take the phone from their hand, tell the caller "he/she will call you back, ok?" and hang up. Yeah, sometimes I have a short temper. 





Katie H said:


> ..... None of us died or exploded because we missed a perceived "important" call.  In this instance, define "important."...


In retrospect, there was only one time I wished I had a cell phone. Because we were at our daughter's basketball game, we did not know my Dad had been rushed to the hospital until we got home hours later and heard my aunt's answering machine message. Had we been called immediately I might have gotten to the hospital while he was still alive.  When my Mom was in her end-days I made sure that cellphone was with me everywhere, all the time. But on mute/vibrate setting when appropriate (church, dining out, etc). 

I think we're blaming the phone for the problem as I see it: people have become much more "me! me! look at me!" with the advent of all the variety of social media that have sprung up. IIRC, Himself and I have never asked someone working to take a couple/group shot when we've been out. Not even pre-cellphone. I guess we're tech-savvy enough to know how to use the timer setting for pictures.  I'll admit to taking a quick snap of my plate on a special occasion or at a once-in-a-lifetime restaurant, but I then eat and wait with uploading my photo until we're done eating. If there is time while waiting for the check I'll do it then. If we're getting ready to leave I'll stop just outside the restaurant so that I can tag the picture with where we're at. BUT dining at those special places take place so infrequently it's practically non-existent. On those rare occasions I just gotta brag a bit.


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## Addie (Jul 14, 2014)

I have two children - one with cancer and one that has had eight heart attacks. My phone goes everywhere with me and never gets shut off.


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## roadfix (Jul 14, 2014)

Things used to be much better with a level playing field, when there were no cell phones.  People who needed to be contacted frequently usually carried pagers.
But today, to keep the same level playing field, it seems everyone must carry cell phones.


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## Steve Kroll (Jul 14, 2014)

I really have no problem with cell phone use in restaurants, provided the cellphone owner is not disrupting others by carrying on a phone conversation with someone or ignoring everyone else at the table and texting non-stop. But that's just common courtesy. We always taught our daughter not to text at the table, and she doesn't - or at least not in our presence. 

Likewise, I've been dining at restaurants while others are taking photos. This isn't a new thing. Back in ye olde Kodak days, people sometimes took photos in restaurants, too. I've been with groups that have asked a waiter to take a photo. This is a request that you need to play by ear. If the restaurant is swamped, then it's impolite to ask. But I've never once seen a waiter get testy about a photo request when asked nicely.

I'll add one more. Sometimes when I have lunch by myself, I have my Kindle with me to catch up on reading. No different than 10 years ago when I would take a book to lunch. Just like with a book, I'm still perfectly capable of putting it down to talk to the wait staff when they come to the table.

Reading through the article that was posted at the start of the thread, it sounds like a bunch of hooey to me. Maybe something posted by a disgruntled waiter or owner of a restaurant. Regardless, whoever wrote it needs to deal with reality. Like it or not, cell phones are here to stay. Unfortunately, the same could be said for rude people. 

My take is this: Don't blame the hardware. Don't blame the software. Blame the Jellyware (aka the soft gray matter between peoples' ears).


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