# How many cars in your driveway?



## VeraBlue (Jul 2, 2008)

There was a question posed in another thread asking if families really need more than one vehicle.  It's an interesting question, perfect for a lazy evening around a campfire...but since we only have keyboards and virtual language, I'm up for the discussion here.

I'm 46, grew up in northern NJ, family of 5, Dad worked two physical jobs, Mom went to work when I was 10 at a nearby University in one of the offices.  Until my mother went to work, we had one car.  If my mother needed to do the shopping, she would drive my dad to work, run her errands, and then pick him up again.  Once the kids got older, she'd send one, two or all three of us to the supermarket either on foot or with our bikes to pick up a few things during the week.  When she got a job, we they got another car.  That lasted for a while, until my dad switched jobs and was able to use a company vehicle (not a car, more like a delivery van).  We went back to one car and the company vehicle.  My brother got the family hand me down car when he was 17, Mom got a new car. (never brand new, new 'used').  When I was 17, I borrowed whatever car was available, putting in gas each time, till I was 18 and bought my own car.  My sister did the same thing.  Soon, we were a family of 5 with 5 cars in the driveway.
Each person had their own schedule to follow and gas was easily affordable.  Back in the 80s,  practically everyone with a license had their own car.  As a society, we became accustomed to picking up and going whenever we desired.  Why wait for public transportation when I can just get up and go at my leisure?  Families grew in a direction that didn't necessitate combining schedules, looking for employment in public transportation friendly areas, arranging play dates for 3 year olds in towns miles apart, driving teen agers everywhere.

We all know what the current state of affairs is now.  Gas is bordering on unaffordable to middle and lower classes. Teens and young adults who have part time 'date money' jobs can no longer to afford to buy gas at all.  Families with kids in multiple after school activities use up the weekly gas purchase just taking kids to places they 'need' to go.  Families who drive to summer vacation spots cannot afford the gas needed to get there.  

Yet, we've cushioned ourselves into our lives with multiple cars quite deeply.  We married and each spouse has jobs in opposite directions.  We had kids and each kid has social obligations and clubs.  We shop like we were feeding an army.  Our teens want to date/go to the mall/have jobs after school.  

Is it too late now to turn back to the way it was in 1950?  I'm not suggesting the mother stay home...  When does it become 'enough'?  Can we simply change our lives, our livelyhoods because gas is so expensive?  Would it be enough for a few families to change, or does the entire nation have to change?

I think of Europe...and the tiny cars they drive.  I think of how they all take public transportation, or walk, or ride bikes.  Is this way of life what it would have been like here, had we never had the boon we experienced in the  50s, 60s, 70s and 80s?  Think about that.  Europe was busy rebuilding after two world wars, everything was scarce and the price of gas was always exhorbitant.  Here in the USA, we didn't have to rebuild anything here.  We just grew and grew, industrially, scientifically, etc.  It's clear we went in an entirely different direction from the rest of the world.

Long post, I know.  Thanks for reading this far.  In my house, now....my son, 22 years old, has his own car, purchased brand new.  I have my own car, also purchased brand new.  My daughter, 19 works in NYC, doesn't own a car, and commutes via public transportation into the city.  I also work in NYC and take public transportation as well.  Technically, that would free up my car for my son to use, which could drop us to a one car family.  However, there are times when I want or need to be somewhere, and a car of my own is necessary.  Does it matter then, if we have two cars, yet usually only use one?  Would it be better for the country if people just made better use of the vehicles they have, rather than have to give one up, if indeed it ever came to that?   Could we ever make such drastic changes?


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## bowlingshirt (Jul 2, 2008)

None are in the driveway...we use the garage.


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## lulu (Jul 2, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> I think of Europe...and the tiny cars they drive. I think of how they all take public transportation, or walk, or ride bikes. Is this way of life what it would have been like here, had we never had the boon we experienced in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s? Think about that. Europe was busy rebuilding after two world wars, everything was scarce and the price of gas was always exhorbitant. Here in the USA, we didn't have to rebuild anything here. We just grew and grew, industrially, scientifically, etc. It's clear we went in an entirely different direction from the rest of the world.
> ?


 
VB, you are being to kind to us Europeans. Yes, of course our car choice is usually drmatically smaller engined than the average US choice, but only CITY dwellers tend to be habitual PT users even here.

DH and I have made a concious choice to reamin a one car family. This works fo us because I don't work and he works in London. I DRIVE him to the train station on Monday morning and DRIVE to collect him on Friday nights. The rest of the time he uses public transport.

As it happens, I will be getting the train to London on Monday too, but somewhat grudgingly, because I know, even with our fuel prices making yours look lovely, I could drive to London cheaper than my Train ticket will cost. Even pay the congestion charge, and one hours parking, on my fare a lone, DH's fare will get us another few hours of parking at £30 pounds an hour.

The reason I'm taking he train is because it will be convenient at the other end, and, as I am saying to GB in t'other post, it will eventually be convienece and fiscal and financial presure that force the world to change again.

I drive a Ford Puma. He's a bit old and battered now, I had him second hand and 8 month old. I've driven across Europe and back, with the puddy cats and stuffed full of what I'd need while living there. HE IS A TINY CAR and I often gruble about what I must have been thinking getting sucha car when he's low on our rural roads and small.

We're hoping I can keep him on the road for another two years, then we'll look at choices.

ETA: second cars of course can be occasional, and prudent if you already own it and can tax and insure it cheaply.  You can possibly insure it on a low milage deal, saving there!


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## kitchenelf (Jul 2, 2008)

bowlingshirt said:


> None are in the driveway...we use the garage.





Our lives all go in different directions.  Now that my husband has a company car we still have his other one to pull the work trailer that is sometimes needed for mulch, moving furniture, or things like that.  All total we have 4 cars for 3 people.  The 3 cars are definitely needed, as public transportation is not that easy to get to where we live.  I don't know how we would do it if we each did not have our own car.  Gone are the days when my mother would drop my father off at work and pick him up on the days she needed to go grocery shopping or had some sort of appointment.


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## Jeekinz (Jul 2, 2008)

Two.

My van and the DW's Accord.  Both used.  The only thing I buy new are bikes, and that's a rarity anymore.

I like driving my own vehicle, having the seat where I left it, the radio programmed how I like it, etc.

I could wake up 2 hours early to drive her to work, but then she would have to wait 3 more hours at work for me to pick her up.  She actually works two towns over so the gas situation isn't really an issue for her.

There are, however, people who commute very long distances every day.  Those are the ones really getting hit.  Hopefully many of them can carpool.

I'm pretty sure the SUV boom/fad is over now.  Remember seeing all those new Hummers on the road a few years back?  They're all in used car lots now.  Thats all I saw while shopping the past month or so.  Some delerships wouldn't even take my Durango as a trade in because they were overloaded with SUV's.  I tried to get 2 grand for it, but had no bites.  I just pulled the plates and parked it at my office.


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## Flourgirl (Jul 2, 2008)

We just got a second vehicle for our family after a year with only one. I am a stay-home mom to a preschooler. My husband has a long commute to work- he drive 54 miles each way. But because I am able to stay home, we were able to make it work with just one car this past year. It was difficult however, as we have been accustomed to having separate vehicles. 

I think our society is just not set up for one vehicle per family. First, we have the sprawling suburbs built up around our cities which makes long commutes a necessity- until public transportation is provided in the 'burbs, that is. For now, I can take a train into the NY or Stamford or another city near me, but I still have to drive to get to the train station. 

Then there's the issue of getting the kids to and from school and social/afterschool activities. Now that my preschooler is old enough to start kindergarten in the fall, I just bought a car of my own again- a 2008 Chevy Malibu- no more SUV's for either one of us- only smaller, more economical cars for us. Unfortunately the times when we could let our kids walk to school or the store are gone. The streets, even in "safe" neighborhoods just aren't safe anymore. 

So, even with only one parent working outside the home, it has been tough to do with only one vehicle. Not to mention that the cost savings isn't as much as you'd expect because there is more wear and tear put on that one car and therefore more maintenance costs. 

I think we can all use our cars more efficiently and that will be our family's plan for the near future. I don't think making the change to one-vehicle per family will come easy for us, especially without more alternatives to using our own cars, like more public transportation or reliable ride-sharing or car-sharing.

Interesting topic, thanks for putting it out there.


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## jkath (Jul 2, 2008)

Since dh works 1½ hours away from home, we each have one. (but they go in the garage)  Oldest son will be 16 this fall, so there may or may not be another set of wheels. I don't want to give up the third garage, since that's where I keep my tools (yes, my tools) but, at least we have a lot of driveway space.

(But with these gas prices, thank goodness the grocery store is a quick walk away!)

PS - I STILL see Hummers EVERYWHERE! I'm assuming these people have money trees growing in their back yards.


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## ronjohn55 (Jul 2, 2008)

Not sure if I'm really in the best position to fairly answer this....

We have 2 cars, but my wife works from home and the second car (old and completely paid off) mostly sits in the garage other then infrequent trips to the vet, the dentist, etc. We probably put less than 1000 miles a year on it. (which is maybe 3 tanks of gas.... on a 12.5 gallon tank)

Then there's my vehicle which is a discount lease through my employer. It gets used for most everything we do. 

So yes, in a pinch we could probably make do with only one vehicle without too much trouble.

Edited to add:
I don't think the issue is the *owning* of more than one vehicle per family as much as what the vehicles are and how they're used. 

A perfect example is my friend. He lives 15 minutes from work (by car).... Does he *really* need the 4x4 F-150 that gets about 14mpg for that drive? No.  But that's a perfect example of what I see on the road every morning. Big trucks blowing by me at 80-85 miles per hour... Getting 12-14 miles per gallon, if they're lucky.


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## suziquzie (Jul 2, 2008)

That we use? 1.  In different stages of restoration / repair? 4-5. 
We don't need the 2nd, for us it was a waste. 
When my husband owned his own semi, he drove that all day. I don't go anywhere much during the day with the kids, but we only needed 1 car for that. 
Now that he is driving someone else's truck, we share the 1 car still, because he works overnights. I only work the days he doesn't. It doesn't make for much alone time, but we'll just deal for now. It'll be more fun when the kids are grown anyway.  

We probably should have another for overnight for me while he's gone, in case I need to run a kid the the ER or something, but I'm not terribly worried about it. My FIL is looking for another something for us to have around, but I'm not in a hurry.


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## LEFSElover (Jul 2, 2008)

4 in driveway, 3 in garage, husband's got a little problem with cars same as me with butterdishes < but at least, they're cheap!


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## TanyaK (Jul 2, 2008)

2 - we both use our cars all day to drive to clients etc so we don't have a choice. Apart from that public transport in South Africa is not great - trains are downright unsafe. I would have loved to live in London, Manhattan or any metropolitan city with great public transport and not have to drive !


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## pacanis (Jul 2, 2008)

If this is like a poll on how many vehicles per driving age person, then a simple answer is one, as I live by myself, but I have a tractor, riding mower, street bike, ATV, various other fuel driven tools..... So yeah, I use enough gas and diesel to account for perhaps a 2 car family that "needs" two vehicles.
No, let me rephrase that, as my Pacifica is three years old and only has 15,400 miles on it.  I pay enough in fuel along with; insurance, loans, taxes, licenses and all the other monies associated with owning more  than one fuel using vehicle to think that I am stimulating the economy quite nicely.....

I'm not saying I haven't cut back on things, I brush hog my trails two widths wide instead of three now, but what would happen to the economy if there was a _sudden_ change or cutback on fuel useage? Think about the domino effect on every other industry. It's being felt now as is.

Change is needed, but it has to be well thought out.


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## Adillo303 (Jul 2, 2008)

We are a two vehicle family. DW has a leased Murano and I have a pickup. We could likely make it work with one car, but, there are advantages to having two. I do have a couple an other thought to put in the game.

Is is significant how many cars a family has, or is it more significant how many miles are driven. I think the motivation for the discussion was the cost of fuel. My truck goes 1.4 miles to the train station, where I take the train into NYC. In the city, I am 2 blocks from the train station. Therefore, my daily driving is about 3 miles. I used to go 22 miles one way to North Bergen, NJ and take a bus into the city, that necisitated a cab in the AM and a city bus in the PM to get from the office to and from the bus terminal. Since I qyakify for a reduced fare train ticket, I am going round trip on the train for 6 bucks. I saved over 400 dollars a month that way. Alos I leave at 5:00 AM and get home at 6:00 PM to 7:30 PM depending on work. DW leaes at 8:30 AM and returns at 6:30 PM. In terms of fuel efficiency, although we have two vehicles, I think that we are now fuel efficient.


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## Constance (Jul 2, 2008)

No cars...just three pick-up trucks. Does that make us rednecks, ya think?


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## pacanis (Jul 2, 2008)

Constance said:


> No cars...just three pick-up trucks. Does that make us rednecks, ya think?


 
Are any of them up on blocks?


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## GB (Jul 2, 2008)

We have two. One is an SUV, but it gets excellent milage for an SUV. It is a 6 cylinder with 4 wheel drive. We bought it when we had our daughter as we needed something with a lot of room for "stuff" and also something that was good in the snow and ice and other New England weather. We use it to it's fullest capacity so I am glad we got it.

Our other car is a 4 cylinder 6 speed that I am getting between 35-40mpg right now.

We are a family that does need both cars. We can not do without one as both my wife and I work and do not live anywhere near our offices. There are also no public transportation or carpool option available.

America was not designed the same way the old European countries were. In Europe it is much easier to have one car. Not so in the US.


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## bethzaring (Jul 2, 2008)

3, but none in the driveway; 2 in the garage and one in the machine shed.

I have a Nissan cruising car; we received a Ford Ranger (small pick-up) by default when FIL died in 1994; one BIL had a newer pick-up, the other lived in an area that zoned out pick-ups and we did not want/had no use for a small pick up. After one year of MIL looking at this vehicle, we took it off her hands. And dh has a Ford 150 with tool boxes for his construction business.  We need to make some improvements in this situation.  Our vehicles are 1991, 1994, and a 2003, all bought used.  My car mainly stays parked.  I detest driving the Ranger because of the camper top which severly limits rear visibility.  We are about to sell the 1991 Ranger, dh is trying to retire his construction business so that large truck will not be needed.  And dh bought a motorcycle last summer.  Did I mention we have 9 mowers?


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## Mrs. Cuillo (Jul 2, 2008)

We have two cars but only as of recently.  In March, coincidentally on my birthday, we got a used '02 Eclipse.  It has been pretty good on gas mileage ever since we put this stuff called SeaFoam in it.  When we lived in CT, we always had two cars, never made payments, always what we call "beaters" (93 Mazda Protege, 90 Honda Accord, 95, Eclipse, 95 Eagle Talon...and not the prettiest of things...usually with a quarter panel or fender that had large dents in it), but always lasted and got us where we wanted to go.  (Including several trips to NYC, Ocean City and Atlantic City). When we moved to VA, it was not possible for us to bring both cars with us, so we sold one, towed the other.  Our other car, a 92 Nissan 240 SX, is not used very often, mainly because we are always working on it.  Due to the way our work schedules are, DH drops me off at work a little early and picks me up at night.  It does save us gas money since the 240 only runs on the high octane gas and gets HORRIBLE gas mileage.


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## Mrs. Cuillo (Jul 2, 2008)

ronjohn55 said:


> Edited to add:
> I don't think the issue is the *owning* of more than one vehicle per family as much as what the vehicles are and how they're used.


 
I agree


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## bethzaring (Jul 2, 2008)

I think the issue of owning is relevant, solely due to the cost of ownership


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## pacanis (Jul 2, 2008)

I didn't think this was a cost of ownership thread. I thought it was a "do you need" or "could you do with one vehicle" thread. I could be wrong.


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## LadyCook61 (Jul 2, 2008)

At the moment my driveway looks like a junkyard.    We have 3 pickup trucks, only one runs.  We have 3 cars ,  one does not run.  Also a car that is hubby's friend's , being stored in the driveway.   Hubby uses his Nissan, which he bought used for errands he goes by himself.  When we both go somewhere , mostly to the food store, we use my car, the Lincoln, which was bought used before the gas prices started going so high.  We don't travel much , only to the food store and pet store (cat food)  Hubby's middle name is Procrasination, getting rid of the non running vehicles is taking him so long.


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## lulu (Jul 2, 2008)

GB said:


> America was not designed the same way the old European countries were. In Europe it is much easier to have one car. Not so in the US.


 
Oh GB, really!  It depends on where in Europe and where in America.  As I said in first response to VB, Europe is being painted to good with vehicle usage.  Ronjohn makes a good point about vehicle size though!


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## sattie (Jul 2, 2008)

2 cars, both in the garage.  DH's vet was bought used and sits in the garage.  Only driven once every two or three weeks.  (We could seriously part with the car!!!)  DH works from home, so no need to drive anywhere, more of a convenience if you can call it that.  I drive a 04 Accord, bought new through my job at fleet pricing.  I only drive into work 1 to 3 times a week and that is a 53 mile round trip.  My job I can do from home... just our company has not quite got comfortable with just letting us do it permanently.

We could so easily go with one car.


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## VeraBlue (Jul 2, 2008)

pacanis said:


> I didn't think this was a cost of ownership thread. I thought it was a "do you need" or "could you do with one vehicle" thread. I could be wrong.


 
As the original poster, I have no worries which direction the thread takes.  Conversely, rather than a laundry list of what we own/drive/need (which, by the way, I love reading about)...my original thought was more towards how we got this way, and if we can possibly ever get away from the need for more than one or two vehicles per family.


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## Robo410 (Jul 2, 2008)

2 peeps, 2 cars, one goes north to work, one goes south.


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 2, 2008)

Constance said:


> No cars...just three pick-up trucks. Does that make us rednecks, ya think?


Same here three trucks however they rarely are driven. one is a Dodge diesel and is used to pull horse trailers so it hasn't been used for months, I own two Ford F150s which are in the garage the truck that gets used is one of my fords to go to shopping 65 miles one way but I only go once every 2-3 weeks. Dh took the other one to go to a funeral today. Once in a while he or I need to go to town for other reasons but that is rare. Dh has a company truck for work and we live where he works, I work some here as well. I don't drive to town to pick up my prescriptions unless I'm going anyway. I got the doctor to write my meds so they all come up at the same time. When I have them mailed it's a couple bucks postage saves a whole lot of money and gas that way. I stay really stocked up on groceries etc. A shopping trip to town is quite involved and fills the entire back of truck up. Not just food but a lot of heavy stuff like dog and cat food, cat litter, cases of beer etc you name it, it's alot of work for one shopping trip but that's they way it is.. I have a cap not a camper on the back so it's all enclosed. I keep ice chests in the back for all the frozen and cold stuff it gets really hot out here in the summer.
After that everything else I want I order online and have it shipped to the ranch. Got clever the other day I ordered a Schwinn bike from Walmart instead of paying shipping I had site to store delivery which is free what I saved I dont know I then picked up bike at store yesterday when I was planning to go anyway. Oh and yes and I Hyper-Miled the whole way over and back.


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## pacanis (Jul 2, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> As the original poster, I have no worries which direction the thread takes. Conversely, rather than a laundry list of what we own/drive/need (which, by the way, I love reading about)...*my original thought was more towards how we got this way, and if we can possibly ever get away from the need for more than one or two vehicles per family*.


 
That was my thought, too.


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## VeraBlue (Jul 2, 2008)

As you post what you've got/need, do you see, can you follow how you got there?  Is there any way you can see changing  now?  Is it too late?  

Personally, I don't think it's ever too late to make changes for the good..  Maybe, I'm asking, how much are you willing to sacrifice to help the whole situation, not just your own situation?

I read how everyone has their job, life, schedule, and I get it, I really do.  Yet, we all know where this is leading, don't we?  Eventually, there could be taxes levied on people with gas guzzlers, people who don't take public transportation (when it's available), people who don't carpool, etc.  

Not having lived through the world wars, I don't know what it was like to ration sugar, meat, gasoline...but it was done, and people altered their lives accordingly.  Everyone did, not just the 'green' people.  

Do you think it's possible for everyone to make changes?  Why or why not?  Are you willing?  Why or why not?

Again, thanks all for reading this far and participating.  This is a heavy topic for a light and airy kitchen, if you ask me.  But, like my signature says, how can we sleep while our beds are burning.  I appreciate the candor.  It's these types of discussions that are the impetus for change.


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## lulu (Jul 2, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> As the original poster, I have no worries which direction the thread takes. Conversely, rather than a laundry list of what we own/drive/need (which, by the way, I love reading about)...my original thought was more towards how we got this way, and if we can possibly ever get away from the need for more than one or two vehicles per family.


 

OK, how's this to put a smile on your face! DH and I have decided to have carriage driving lessons. No, seriously.

We have been thinking about getting another horse for sometime and were looking at a particular type of horse out of preference, only we had different preferences and only want one more horse right now. Then I have had some problems with riding recently (health) and I've been taking more than my fair share leading the old unriddenhorse oput while DH rides our shared horse. So I rmembered there are some people in a town I used to live near who drove there horse and fancy cart to the supermarket once a week. I mentioned to DH that I could drive and use the driving pony for the things that are long walking distance for a healthy person but a long long way for me. I said it half in jest, but DH thinks its a great idea and we are booked to do that. I'm about 3 winding miles from th nearest big village (which is easily walkable but takes me an embarrasingly long time) but should take to shakes of a lambs tail out with a horse. It would be too far to go o the trainstation in, but I reckon I could do all my local stuff like that if push came to shove with petrol prices. 

ETA I already think really hard about this.  The environment is my single biggest 'concern because beyond all the rare birds and ill people I look at beautiful children and my blood runs cold at the inheritance of damage we've received at what ravages we leave to the future.   I look forward to a future hen I can get by using a car a few times a week.  I hate all the flights DH and I have taken over the past couple of years and I can sometimes get a little over bogged down with trying to 'get it right'. A few years ago we were on point of trading in my Puma for a Prius and then an environmental analyust explained that it would be a poor chioce for us, as the environmental cost from manufacture to destruction of the prius was greater than running my Puma.  That kind of maths makes my head spin.


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## MexicoKaren (Jul 2, 2008)

Interesting read, VB, thanks for starting this thread. It's fun to have a glimpse into the daily lives of our DC friends. When DH and I were still working, it would have been hard to use just one car. He went one way to work (4 miles) and I went another (12 miles) and I often needed my car during the day to drive to meetings,  the state capitol, etc. But he COULD have taken the bus to work - we talked about it some, but we never did it. Now that we are retired, we have one vehicle - a 2003 Nissan crew cab pickup, made in Mexico, purchased and registered here. We can pick people up at the airport, and haul bags of cement at the same time. I've occasionally thought that it would be nice to have my own little car (we would LOVE to have a Smart Car) but we really need the hauling capacity of the truck and a second car is just not necessary for us.


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## GB (Jul 2, 2008)

lulu said:


> Oh GB, really!  It depends on where in Europe and where in America.


Of course it depends. I was not trying to make a blanket statement so if that is how it came across then I apologize. The modern towns and cities in the US are not designed the same as the old world European towns and cities for the most part though. 

Where I live I would not be able to bike to work for instance unless I worked at one of the local stores like the super market, Burger King, dry cleaners, etc. Not one of those jobs would pay enough for me to be able to afford to live in my town, even with the savings of not having a second (or even first) car.


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## luvs (Jul 2, 2008)

a single carin our parking lot. i take a bus often enough. i live in pittsburgh where you can take lots of busses.


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## lulu (Jul 2, 2008)

GB said:


> I was not trying to make a blanket statement so if that is how it came across then I apologize. .


  accepted, lol.

You know, this is an appropriate time to reveal one of the funniest things my cranky in laws said to me ever,

My F-i_L and step m-i-l  wer asking why DH was learning to drive and grumbling in an 'everything is better in NYC' kind of ay, to which I replied, with a smile, 'But some people drive in NYC don't they?' to which they snapped 'NO, no one drives in NYC, THERE's TOO MUCH TRAFFIC' they couldn't understand why I couldn't stop giggling....I got th giggles so bad I had to leave the room


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## ronjohn55 (Jul 2, 2008)

If I could bike to work, I would. It's better for me. (Financially, physically)
If I could take public transportation I would. It would be cheaper, more relaxing. 

Neither option is viable for me at the moment. I work too far away to bike. Moving is not an option for several reasons. The public transportation around here would be charitably described as "a joke". 
And Finding a decent job closer to home isn't really an option right not either thanks to the state of the auto industry. (When you live in the motor city, *every* job is impacted by the auto industry, even if you don't work for a car company)

So I do what I can, and just try to wait it out. I am looking at downsizing my daily driver (and ironically replacing the small compact second car with a mid sized SUV - but again, it would likely be driven about a 1000 miles a year).


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## GB (Jul 2, 2008)

lulu said:


> My F-i_L and step m-i-l  wer asking why DH was learning to drive and grumbling in an 'everything is better in NYC' kind of ay, to which I replied, with a smile, 'But some people drive in NYC don't they?' to which they snapped 'NO, no one drives in NYC, THERE's TOO MUCH TRAFFIC' they couldn't understand why I couldn't stop giggling....I got th giggles so bad I had to leave the room


That is hilarious


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## LadyCook61 (Jul 2, 2008)

lulu said:


> accepted, lol.
> 
> You know, this is an appropriate time to reveal one of the funniest things my cranky in laws said to me ever,
> 
> My F-i_L and step m-i-l wer asking why DH was learning to drive and grumbling in an 'everything is better in NYC' kind of ay, to which I replied, with a smile, 'But some people drive in NYC don't they?' to which they snapped 'NO, no one drives in NYC, THERE's TOO MUCH TRAFFIC' they couldn't understand why I couldn't stop giggling....I got th giggles so bad I had to leave the room


 
that is funny...


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## elaine l (Jul 2, 2008)

Interesting topic with lots of food for thought (added the food part get it?) 

Anyway we have two vehicles (parked in the garage) but if I really really wanted to change, we could do with one.  I live about a mile and a half from work.  If the weather wasn't too wild I could walk/bike.  My husband could most likely drive me there.  The weekends we could share a car for errands etc.  But and this is a big BUT I am not sure if I could give up the independence that having my own car means.  Would I be willing to give up my need over his on any given day?  

I think that everyone can make a change if the they absolutely had to (gas rations, no gas)  Just like our fathers before us did.  Lifestyle would change as jobs would have to be geographically closer to home.  But then maybe companies would move back into some of the burbs in order to staff their business.  

I guess right now I am not ready to make the sacrifice. Enjoying the spoils of a good life. Don't think it would do a world of good for the economy or the environment for just me to give up my car.  Now maybe if we all made a pact do it...........


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## buckytom (Jul 2, 2008)

lol, lulu. my dad talks about being raised where every family had an a$$ and cart. it was a big deal when my grandfather bought the first car in their town. 
it was around the same time he installed the first indoor plumbing and toilet in the town.
i would been more excited about the latter.


getting back: we have 2 drivers and 2 cars. i've driven into work everyday for the past 22 years (lol, into nyc lulu. tell your fil), but recently had to get in line with the rest of the lemmings and take the bus. i refuse to spend 80 bucks a week just on gas. so now i drive 1/2 mile to rte. 46, and leave it at a park and ride lot and hop on the 161. 

so, as far as i'm concerned, the gas prices have forced me to do the right thing.

vb, i don't think that there's a way around this though, or a way back. as it is the dream for most people to acquire a wealthy lifestyle (often mistakenly called westernization or worse, americanization), being able to get into a car and get out at the door of your destination is part of that dream. china is a perfect example. as much as the world dislikes americans, they surely like to imitate us.


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## pacanis (Jul 2, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> .....I'm asking, how much are you willing to sacrifice to help the whole situation, not just your own situation?.......


 

Aside from a "greener" planet, I don't think sacrificing helps anything _BUT_ your own situation.  That is what I was eluding to earlier. I stop buying or cut back, someone in Detroit loses a job.  Think of that on a large scale. That, IMO, is the whole situation. Cutting back will do nothing to stimulate the economy.

BTW, I am not trying to be argumentive with you, VB. I know I would lose


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## buckytom (Jul 2, 2008)

and she would make you enjoy it, pacanis.


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## sattie (Jul 2, 2008)

pacanis said:


> Aside from a "greener" planet, I don't think sacrificing helps anything _BUT_ your own situation. That is what I was eluding to earlier. I stop buying or cut back, someone in Detroit loses a job. Think of that on a large scale. That, IMO, is the whole situation. Cutting back will do nothing to stimulate the economy.
> 
> BTW, I am not trying to be argumentive with you, VB. I know I would lose


 

Hmmmmm.....  I had several responses, but mulling them over it all does seem to come back to me.  Or if not me, I would be enabling someone else to pollute!

My thinking was that yes, I got 2 cars.  When DH use to work, he worked one direction, I the other.  Now that he works from home, really don't need a second car.  So yea, we could live with one car.

But here is my thought... I'm not as worried about the economy as I am the air that I breathe.  If I were to part with the older, premium fuel using vehicle by selling it, then I just sold a gas guzzler, potentially higher polluting vehicle to someone who may actually drive it.  Does that defeat the purpose?

Ok, I feel a headache coming on again.....


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## pacanis (Jul 2, 2008)

Or worse yet, sattie, it could wind up in a landfill!


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## sattie (Jul 2, 2008)

Yea that too!!!!  Dang... it's almost like you can't win!


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## elaine l (Jul 2, 2008)

I would like to add to my answer.  After thinking about the question again, I think I misunderstood it.  For me it would not be an option really.  I like to go when I want.  I would hate to have to "ask" if I could use the car today and hear "well I need it because I a have something more important to do"  Not to say it would go like that but the possibility is there for many little spats.  So that is my final answer from a personal standpoint.


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## VeraBlue (Jul 2, 2008)

Hmmm....all very interesting.

First, Bucky, I'm on the 161 every day at 5:20am...are you?

Pacanis, I've got no problems with arguing, and yes, I do have ways of making you enjoy it.  
I don't agree that conserving our natural resources will eventually lead to unemployment.  It's not so much about owning more cars, it's about using what we have more wisely.  Would you not agree that it's not necessary to drive a couple of miles to work?  At the most, it's a 40 minute walk, one way.  Think of the health benefits alone.  I don't think the answer is to give up that second car.  The answer lies in using it less.  

Lulu, if you ever get that carriage going, please let me have a ride in it.  That's the kind of thing I'd love to be able to do.

Speaking of personal sacrifices, I recently interviewed for a position that could possibly mean more money and a shorter commute.  It would also require I start taking my car again.  There is a very very big part of me that hopes I am not further considered.  I don't want to start driving every day any longer.  More money is a good draw..but it would all go to gas.


Again, thanks for all the honesty.  By the way, I don't want to go back to a more idyllic time, I realize that would be impossible.  What I'd like is to move forward to a more idyllic future.  

Eventually, we're going to hit the wall.  What will you do then?  Would it take law enforced rationing to make people change?  Would you rather ration food or gas?  What if you didn't have a choice?  (don't you think I should just get to the gym, already?)


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## LadyCook61 (Jul 2, 2008)

I remember the gas rationing we had in the 70's , I forget what year it was, we had to get gas on odd or even days according to your license plate.  (if I remember correctly)


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## quicksilver (Jul 2, 2008)

'74 & '77, if I remember. What fun. I got to legitamitely cut school to sit in line in '74. and in '76 & '77 had a landscape business in Jersey and they could not deny us our livelihood, so we went to the front of the line.
( sorry guys.)

​


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## elaine l (Jul 2, 2008)

Okay this thread has really got me soul searching.  What did I find there?  That I am pretty spoiled.  In order for me to walk to work it would require me to carry a large tote.  I bring home books for lesson plans, papers to correct.  Okay I could stay and do that at school.  But next problem.  We are required to wear prof. clothes so I would have to either bring (at the very least) shoes or change entirely. And then the biggie.  What would my hair look like?  Wind, rain, sweat?  Gee just a vain girlie.  Oh and my lunch.  That requires it's own tote bag. I always bring plan A and plan B.  Buying my lunch isn't an option (school food here is not what is was in my day)  So enough said by me.


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## Poppinfresh (Jul 2, 2008)

I'll be the snob here

2 in the garage ('57 Vette and '69 GTO Judge)
2 in the driveway ('05 BMW 3 series and a brand new Audi R8)
2 in our RV parking space on the side of our house ('04 Audi A4 and '05 H2)

The first two almost never get driven
The 2nd two are our every day drivers
The last 2 are for either A) hauling the first 2 to shows (the H2) or else a car for when we have a couch surfer who needs "help to get back on his/her feet"


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## sattie (Jul 2, 2008)

elaine l said:


> Okay this thread has really got me soul searching. What did I find there? That I am pretty spoiled. In order for me to walk to work it would require me to carry a large tote. I bring home books for lesson plans, papers to correct. Okay I could stay and do that at school. But next problem. We are required to wear prof. clothes so I would have to either bring (at the very least) shoes or change entirely. And then the biggie. What would my hair look like? Wind, rain, sweat? Gee just a vain girlie. Oh and my lunch. That requires it's own tote bag. I always bring plan A and plan B. Buying my lunch isn't an option (school food here is not what is was in my day) So enough said by me.


 
We are all spoiled.... but we can choose to change and choose to live differently.  

I did not want to drive to my exercise class, so I started walking to it.  Nice WARM up walking the 1.25 miles there... carry a tote for my water, shoes, and whatever else I need.  It's not the most convenient... but hey, I get to burn extra calories and save a bit of gas!


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## VeraBlue (Jul 2, 2008)

elaine l said:


> Okay this thread has really got me soul searching.  What did I find there?  That I am pretty spoiled.  In order for me to walk to work it would require me to carry a large tote.  I bring home books for lesson plans, papers to correct.  Okay I could stay and do that at school.  But next problem.  We are required to wear prof. clothes so I would have to either bring (at the very least) shoes or change entirely. And then the biggie.  What would my hair look like?  Wind, rain, sweat?  Gee just a vain girlie.  Oh and my lunch.  That requires it's own tote bag. I always bring plan A and plan B.  Buying my lunch isn't an option (school food here is not what is was in my day)  So enough said by me.



Okay, at least you thought it through.  Now, with nothing but love.....I have to wear chef whites to work in.  I don't wear those on the bus/subway.  I wear street clothes to work, carrying my whites in a satchel (also in there is what would normally be in a woman's purse, plus a book and an umbrella).  They make lovely scarves to tie around your coiff.   You'd only have to carry your lunch one way!  Umbrellas, boots etc for foul weather.
Nuff of that.  More often than not, it would be a hardship to walk.  I see that, but it's not impossible.  You thought about it.  Maybe, on a nice day, or a half day, you could try walking, just to see how it feels.   Again, my friend nothing but love...


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## VeraBlue (Jul 2, 2008)

sattie said:


> We are all spoiled.... but we can choose to change and choose to live differently.
> 
> I did not want to drive to my exercise class, so I started walking to it.  Nice WARM up walking the 1.25 miles there... carry a tote for my water, shoes, and whatever else I need.  It's not the most convenient... but hey, I get to burn extra calories and save a bit of gas!



The only place I drive the car during the week is to the gym and the market.  I've considered walking to the gym, too.  It's close enough...but almost all highway.  I'll probably do it when it's not 85 degrees out.  I've walked to the market, too...also walkable, but only if  I don't have to carry too much.


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## pacanis (Jul 2, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> *Pacanis, I've got no problems with arguing*, and yes, I do have ways of making you enjoy it.
> *I don't agree that conserving our natural resources will eventually lead to unemployment*. It's not so much about owning more cars, it's about using what we have more wisely. Would you not agree that it's not necessary to drive a couple of miles to work? At the most, it's a 40 minute walk, one way. Think of the health benefits alone. I don't think the answer is to give up that second car. The answer lies in using it less.


 
Glad to see you don't have a problem with arguing, because where did I ever say "conserving our natural resources" lead to unemployment? Nice twist on words, Vera.
I suggested that by each of us saving money by reducing the number of vehicles, toys, products in general that do require fuel (yes, a resource), insurance, licensing, maintenance.... in effect, more money spent than just on the purchase of said product, that that action will have a greater impact on the economy than may be realized. When the market slows, people lose jobs. It's been happening since the early seventies that I remember. Erie lost it's industry. Pittsburgh went from an industry city to a service city. And that's without every American cutting back. That is, *IMO*, from American unions becoming to "weighty" and the importation of products becoming more economically practical to purchase.

Now, by cutting back on ALL purchases, (remember, a lot of those foreign products are being built here now), to save money or become more green..... that will have a noticeable impact on the economy that may end up being negative.

And folks, I'm not saying not to try to save money. That's not what I'm implying. My money is tight like everybody else's, relatively speaking for what we each earn. I'm saying that not spending money on what some may consider frivolous in order to try and drive prices back where they used to be will not strengthen the economy.

IMO.


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## pacanis (Jul 2, 2008)

BTW. It was '78. Carter was president and may have been the one to drop the speed limit to 55.... And I remember having to switch license plates with my father's car to coincide with when I needed gas to drive to my girlfriend's town 25 miles away.


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## quicksilver (Jul 2, 2008)

So what are you saying, or avoiding saying?
What would you like to see happen?
​


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## pacanis (Jul 2, 2008)

quicksilver said:


> So what are you saying, or avoiding saying?
> What would you like to see happen?


 
Who me? Nothing. I was just babbling like I always do 

I said a while back, a fix is needed. I just don't think abstinence is it.
I read a while back in USA Today that some companies are going to four day work weeks to ease their employees' burden. That's a smart start. They're still using gas, just less.
I will leave it to someone smart to figger out the remedy


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 2, 2008)

We don't have a driveway just an alley and a garage, LOL.

The wife has her work vehicle, and then there is the family car. Her work vehicle used to be the family van, and she had a pickup truck. This van gets better gas mileage than her pickup truck, so she now uses it as a work vehicle but I can always convert it easily back to a family vehicle if needed.
The new family vehicle is an Accord which gets great mileage but doesn't see much use, maybe a couple of times a week max.


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## Adillo303 (Jul 2, 2008)

Great topic VeraBlue. As I posted earlier, I have changed my commute alot and now drive way less miles and spend way less money. BYW, I am on the train our of Hawthorne at 5:20 every morning, I get to Penn Station at 6:05, do any of you walk past about then?

I agree heartily, that it is not about how many cars you have, but how many miles you drive. I am combining trips as much as possible and just not doing things.

Interesting rean on CNN the other day. Chuna is starting to feel the effects of the American economy slowdown, because, American manufacturers are cancelling orders for Chinese made goods due to people not buying. So, it is all really connected. We are headed for a wall, we can't just keep on buying and exporting our jobs and expect to maintain out lifestyle. How a bag of charcoal can be made in Yougoslavia, shipped to the USA on a boat, using expensive oil to drive it and sold in a supermarket for $11.00 at a profit, kind of says it all. How to fix that one, I have no idea.

Less driving using less gas will have a posative effect on the environment. We need to do a lot more.


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## GB (Jul 2, 2008)

pacanis said:


> I read a while back in USA Today that some companies are going to four day work weeks to ease their employees' burden. That's a smart start. They're still using gas, just less.


Actually it was shown they are not using less gas by doing that. I was just listening to a story about that very thing on NPR the other day. I don't recall which state, but one of them have gone to a 4 day work week. They did studies that showed it does not save any gas as people tend to drive other places with that day off that they have. The state was still going with the 4 day work week as it improved employee moral and that was worth it to them.


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## corazon (Jul 2, 2008)

We have one car for the four of us.

When dh goes to work, he rides his bicycle and when I go anywhere without kids, I ride mine.  I love it.  I'm off to ride my bike to ballet right now.  Takes me 15 mins longer than the car and after a sweaty ballet class it's nice to feel the wind in my face.


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## pacanis (Jul 2, 2008)

GB said:


> Actually it was shown they are not using less gas by doing that. I was just listening to a story about that very thing on NPR the other day. I don't recall which state, but one of them have gone to a 4 day work week. They did studies that showed it does not save any gas as people tend to drive other places with that day off that they have. The state was still going with the 4 day work week as it improved employee moral and that was worth it to them.


 
Hey, that's great! They aren't spending money on gas because they have to, they are spending it because they want to. And since they are travelling on their day off, they are supporting the economy.
Perfect!  Isn't that what it's all about? Not spending money because you have to, spending it because you want to. I'd have to say the four day work week is working then.


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## GB (Jul 2, 2008)

Good point pacanis.


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## VeraBlue (Jul 2, 2008)

I'm keeping up with all the posts, reading between what housework I should be doing.
I'm already on the 2 Subway to Wall Street by 6:05, probably already walking into the building by then, actually.  Too bad, though, would love to pick up a Metro or AM New York with you.  (you do pick one of them up, don't you?)

Pacanis, didn't mean to put words in your mouth, just embellished what you said.  I was fairly certain I had the gist of what you meant.  Don't you think it's possible that as the world changes (global warming, depletion of resources, overpopulation, ozone tears) we'll invent ways to succeed?  Isn't necessity still the mother of invention?  Isn't is possible (and I think it's probable) that as consumers eschew some products or services, they'll show favour towards others, either that already exist or are newly created?  And cannot these newer purchases, for wont of a better word, be more user [earth] friendly?

People who work a 4 day week may not necessarily be using less gas during the week, but saving gas isn't the only reason to cut a week to 4 days from 5.  The building or certain floors can be turned off an extra day.   While they may consume more kilowatts during those extra two hours, it won't amount to the same as a full day.  It takes a certain amount of energy to heat or cool a place from a dead start, like morning.  But, if you just leave the stuff running and especially slowing down during those extra hours, it will require less energy than a dead start.  It's cheaper to close a place for three days straight than to keep it open two extra hours a day.  Most people never leave on time, anyway...but rarely do people come in on the weekend.


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## Saphellae (Jul 2, 2008)

I wish they would make it a law, four day work weeks.. lol...


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## Adillo303 (Jul 2, 2008)

Good point on the energy to run an office 4 days instead of 5. Another thought would be to make two types of 4 dat weeks Monday to Thursday and Tuesday to Friday. On the beginning and ending days there would be Les traffic and congestion. 

BTW - if you are ever out or can get out, I am pretty mobile. Could pick up a paper or coffee if you like. I travel all over the city for work.

For the current siuation, short term situations are needed which provide a stopgap till longer term solutions can become available. Carpooling is one such solution with an immediate effect that is little explored. As I recall I used to see quite a few vans in the city that were provided by a vanpool company or organization. I don't recall seeing them recently. The problem with pools is they need to be able to be organized on more than a company wide basis. I suppose ther is a website based business and a good one at that in there.

AC


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## sattie (Jul 2, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> The only place I drive the car during the week is to the gym and the market. I've considered walking to the gym, too. It's close enough...but almost all highway. I'll probably do it when it's not 85 degrees out. I've walked to the market, too...also walkable, but only if I don't have to carry too much.


 
I would be a bit leery about walking along a highway VB.... not sure exactly what that would be like, but I can certainly understand if you choose to drive that trip.  I keep meaning to get my bike out and get it tuned up.  Even contemplated adding baskets to it and doing some of my errands that way.  I gonna keep thinking about that one... I know I will look like a dork if I put baskets on a bike.  But then I never really cared what folks thought about me anyhow!


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 2, 2008)

I think that would work with offices, but never retail. When I worked retail I asked why the felt it necessary to be open on Sundays, IE open 7 days a week. The manager said it was because they pay rent 7 days a week. Any day they are not open they are paying rent, heating/cooling, etc but not making any money.
Even if the office is closed it still costs them money, just a lot less of it, and they want every penny they can coming in. So, keeping the office open costs more money, but the employees there are making them money and as long as they make more money on any given day than they spend they will be open...

As Michael Douglas (playing Gordon Greko) said in Wall Street, "Greed is good!". There is the mentality we have to get changed to effect change.


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## pacanis (Jul 2, 2008)

sattie said:


> ...I keep meaning to get my bike out and get it tuned up. Even contemplated adding baskets to it and doing some of my errands that way. I gonna keep thinking about that one... I know I will look like a dork if I put baskets on a bike. But then I never really cared what folks thought about me anyhow!


 
Me neither.
I added a "basket" to my bike tonight. It just came in this afternoon. This way I can take my bike to pick up more than a pocketfull of stuff.
It's easily removed of course


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## suziquzie (Jul 2, 2008)

You should get a side car! 
Then you could ride it to Sam's Club!!!!!!


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## pot clanger (Jul 3, 2008)

How many cars that actually *run*....?  or how many nearly covered in kudzu?


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## miniman (Jul 3, 2008)

We have two cars, one of which is on loan to a missionary friend back from Brazil for a few weeks. That car is going when we get it back! DW now takes the train to work after cycling the boys to school. I mostly cycle to work (unless I have too many things to carry). We are probably going to sell our caravan and then will be able to look at smaller cars. Otherwise get a smaller car when eldest is ready fro driving lessons


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## mikki (Jul 3, 2008)

Ok, I have my mini van, Hubby has truck, dodge neon,and motorcycle, DD has one crashed blazer and just bought another blazer. So we have a total of 5 vehicals in the driveway(one not drivable) and one in the garage.All but one are paid off and old. I keep telling my hubby that is to many for only 3 people to drive. His logic is he needs the truck for when he wants to haul things, the neon was originally bought for my DD but she couldn't figure out how to drive a standard so hubby said he would keep it for when the weather is bad and he can't ride his bike to work. The bike he bought to save on gas. I drive my van all over, I run my yougest DD to all her sports.


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## Barbara L (Jul 3, 2008)

pot clanger said:


> How many cars that actually *run*....? or how many nearly covered in kudzu?


Sheesh, around here the kudzu covers half of your car while you are stopped at the drive-through window at Taco Bell!  Just kidding, but it sure is everywhere!

Growing up we had one car until my dad owned and managed his own store.  Then we had our family car ('69 Caprice Classic) and a small truck, which he drove to work.  My mom chose not to drive.  In San Diego we walked a lot and took the bus.  When we moved to Vista, in North San Diego County, there were no buses, so we walked a lot and took cabs if we needed to.  Later we took the bus a lot and still walked.

James and I live in the country.  We could walk to town, but it wouldn't be a fun walk.  The only public transportation in our tiny town are a few taxi-cabs.  We had a 1996 Toyota Corolla (bought in 1997).  A few years ago we bought a 1992 Geo Storm on ebay.  James was driving that one to school, and I was using the Toyota.  On May 30th we bought a 2007 Chrysler 300 (our intent was always to buy a year-old car--almost new, but much cheaper) and gave the Toyota to my best friend.  The Storm needs a little work (it currently stalls quite a bit), so we use the 300 when we go somewhere together.  I'm more scared to stall in intersections than James is, so when we each need a car, he takes the Storm and I take the 300.  We chose the 300 because we want something more comfortable for James to ride in, and we plan to take it on our vacation.  Its gas mileage isn't as good as the Toyota's, but it isn't too bad either.  The storm gets good mileage.  When more work has been done on it and we can depend on it more, we plan to use it more.  

Another thing is, I'm not working right now.  I stay home a lot, but I need a car to shop, go to the post office, etc.  James is getting ready to start a new job.  If and when I get another job, we will each definitely need a car.  

Barbara


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## Barbara L (Jul 3, 2008)

mikki said:


> ...His logic is he needs the truck for when he wants to haul things...


James keeps saying he would like a truck.  When I ask him why, he says the same thing, that he needs to haul things.  I asked him, "How many times do you need to haul something?  Maybe once or twice a year at the most?  You can borrow a friend's truck for that!"

Barbara


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## mikki (Jul 3, 2008)

It's funny because everyone in our family owns a truck, and I keep telling him to sell his and just borrow one if he needs to, but he says I hate borrowing stuff. I'm just going to keep mine.


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## attie (Jul 3, 2008)

*4, *One each, last in first out so I'm always first in  and they're all Toyota's


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## suziquzie (Jul 3, 2008)

When I was little (about 10) we had only one, my Dad worked a block from the house and Mom worked from home.... Never had 2 until my Grandpa died and we inherited his '76 Granada. 
The first "family vehicle" was a '69 Camaro! I really wish they would've kept that when we moved here.   Instead tey kept that yucky old Granada.... I think learning to drive with the Camaro woulda been MUCH more fun!


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## elaine l (Jul 3, 2008)

Now I am thinking carpool.  There is a woman one street over from me going to school too.  She drops her baby off on my street.  Hmmmm instead of just a wave maybe I'll could stick my thumb out.


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## VeraBlue (Jul 3, 2008)

elaine l said:


> Now I am thinking carpool. There is a woman one street over from me going to school too. She drops her baby off on my street. Hmmmm instead of just a wave maybe I'll could stick my thumb out.


 Not a bad idea, at all.  When it comes to carpooling, you have to find people as dedicated to conservation as you are.  You could take turns.  She could pick you up one week, and leaver her car parked in your driveway another week (since she has the baby to drop off).  Good luck with that.


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## lulu (Jul 3, 2008)

Yes, car pools ARE great.  Cars are great, who can deny that.  In Bristol there are now lanes dedicated to sharers in peak hours.  Its a great idea (how it works in practise I'm not sure).

I like what Vera said about not looking back but looking forward to a new and improved idyl of a world.  Technology is great and I don't think being green means less =jobs (infact it was the industrial revolution that did away with jobs lol) but I believe that the key is to find the right balance of what we can do and what scientists and industry need to do to help.

Verablue, bless you for this thread, getting all of thinking....and of course you can have a go with my horse and cart WHEN I get one, lol.  (Does that mean you are coming over in the future?).


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## pdswife (Jul 3, 2008)

We have two.  Paul's truck and my Impala.
We live over 8 miles from the nearest bus stop...
so both are used a lot.   We do car pool to work sometimes...but it's hard because I 
have to be there between 7 and 8 but Paul doesn't have to show up until around 10:00. If we do carpool he catches the bus from my Microsoft office to his ( about 35 minutes away.)


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## buckytom (Jul 3, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> Hmmm....all very interesting.
> 
> First, Bucky, I'm on the 161 every day at 5:20am...are you?


 
5:20AM????? that must be the very first bus of the morning.

i'm way too lazy to get up that early. i usually catch the 7:15, which swings by mockingbird lane around 7:30-ish.

one of these mornings, i'm gonna catch that early bus just to meet you.


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## VeraBlue (Jul 3, 2008)

the 5:20 is the first bus.  By 7:30 I've already overseen breakfast, made two soups, one chili and am well into entree... 

But, if you ever do decide to ride my bus, you have to let me know.


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## buckytom (Jul 3, 2008)

will do.


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## ronjohn55 (Jul 3, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> But, if you ever do decide to ride my bus, you have to let me know.




So she can find another way to get to work that day!!


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## sattie (Jul 3, 2008)

*Where's the basket?*



pacanis said:


> Me neither.
> I added a "basket" to my bike tonight. It just came in this afternoon. This way I can take my bike to pick up more than a pocketfull of stuff.
> It's easily removed of course


 

Ok where is that basket pacanis????  Is it that groovey thing that mounts nicely on the back of your COOL bike?  You absolutely can not look like a dork on that even with the basket.  

I'm thinking bicycle.... with the little bell and goofy lookin wire baskets!!!!   Heck, maybe I can put some cards in my spokes and really dude it up!


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## pacanis (Jul 3, 2008)

Was that you that came riding by the other day with a Cairne Terrier in the basket? Right before the tornado


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## VeraBlue (Jul 3, 2008)

ronjohn55 said:


> So she can find another way to get to work that day!!


smack smack smack


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## VeraBlue (Jul 3, 2008)

sattie said:


> Ok where is that basket pacanis???? Is it that groovey thing that mounts nicely on the back of your COOL bike? You absolutely can not look like a dork on that even with the basket.
> 
> I'm thinking bicycle.... with the little bell and goofy lookin wire baskets!!!!  Heck, maybe I can put some cards in my spokes and really dude it up!


 I have a little blue and green horn on my bike.  sound like a goose with it's ahem...in a vice when I squeeze the bulb.  Very Very dorky


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## ronjohn55 (Jul 3, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> smack smack smack



Promises, Promises!  

C'mon now... you left that one wide open for that shot!


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## sattie (Jul 3, 2008)

pacanis said:


> Was that you that came riding by the other day with a Cairne Terrier in the basket? Right before the tornado


 
Ok smarty-pants!!!!!  But yea, you got the idea!!!!  Instead of the Terrier... it would be my Chihuahua!

VB.... I do think we would get along nicely.  If I'm gonna do the bike thing, might as well have fun with it right????

Love the thread too!!!  Has me thinking about lots of things now!


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## Wart (Jul 3, 2008)

Two drivers, 6 vehicles, two with engines.

My vehicle is a '95 Toyota Standard (Mini) 4x4. I got it so I could get to work no matter the weather. Wifes vehicle is a Toyota Matrix. Unlike private industry the University closes for inclement weather.

Of the other four cars two are hobby cars, the Lincoln is a donor for one of the hobby cars, the last is a van abandoned here by B-I-L which is now used as storage by Wife.

Other IC things? 40 year old Cub Cadet and ~ 35 year old lawn boy. Both are worth maintaining, or rebuilding and Zero Timing, because new replacements have been 'value engineered' into scrap.

As for the question "how much is enough", Its NEVER enough. People will rationalize and perform any 'mental gymnastic' to justify their _wants_. Problem is people have allowed their _wants_ and _needs_ to be confused. I guess this is to be expected when people allow their rational side to be jerked around by impersonal mass marketing propaganda. 

Not to say I don't buy more than I need, Good Golly, I have a Restaurant Range. How many home cooks need 28k burners? I admit I look at my burner at half flame and wonder how much less efficient it is than a homeowner unit on full.
...
I place greater emphasis on Quality than Quantity. Having stated I believe some things have been 'engineered' into junk I tend to look at the used market unless there is an exigent need. I looked for a suitable range at auctions and sales for at least two years before throwing in the towel and buying new, about 20 years for a KitchenAid. 

I have ~ $300 total in a 80's Craftsman *T*able *S*aw, a '60's Rockwell 9" TS, and a 50's Rockwell 4" Jointer, and tooling to use each. I could _use_ bigger better but I don't _need_ bigger better. And I wouldn't want a new Delta. Their made in China.

I'm not worried about economy and commerce. I have little to no choice in my consumables, Some conglomerate will get their hooks in my money either directly or by arranged consequence. Buy Halliburton Oil, money lands in U.A.E. not to mention Tax money .... On some levels thats amusing. Buy a Honda and a chunk of your money could land in the Marysville Ohio community. Buy most anything at Walmart and a chunk of the money lands in China and not a whole lot to the community. My buying used keeps the money in the community a little longer. 

Ecologically buying used makes sense. Whatever it is it's already made, manufacturing costs have been covered. May be some transportation costs.

Ecologically, Using old stuff isn't as clear cut. My Cub Cadet is a mini grunt and pull machine with a mower deck slung under her belly. The Cub uses 1 ~ 1 1/4 gallons to cut ~ 1/2 acre of rough terrain, not an unreasonable fuel consumption. Takes just over an hour. A while back the Emissions Gods were eying this kind of old equipment and it had me worried, I was/am not into spending $4~$6K to replace the Cub so someone else can feel good about me burning a cup less fuel and producing maybe 10 % fewer emissions. And there is an ecological impact to producing something new.

All told where does it work out?


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## Wart (Jul 3, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> I have a little blue and green horn on my bike.  sound like a goose with it's ahem...in a vice when I squeeze the bulb.  Very Very dorky



I had one of those in black.


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## simplicity (Jul 3, 2008)

I've read this thread.  I'm thinking more than vehicles.  It's a priviledged society we have become accustomed to.  Oil is today's problem.  Tomorrow it may be something more basic, like water.  We've already seen signs of this.

We can all make simple changes.  Yours might not be the same as mine.  It doesn't matter.  To try is the only option I see.


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## VeraBlue (Jul 4, 2008)

Good thoughts there, Wart, thanks.

For everyone who has read and participated and just thought...thanks.  As I see it, we can never let up.  If you discuss this with a few people today, over a beer or a burger, that already puts us ahead of yesterday, yes?

Have a wonderful holiday everyone.


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## Mrs. Cuillo (Jul 5, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> ...my original thought was more towards how we got this way, and if we can possibly ever get away from the need for more than one or two vehicles per family.


 
I think we got this dependant on cars because it was originally one of many signs of wealth.  As cars got cheaper and the economy got better, cars were more affordable and everyone could have one.  Because of this, our society has become so reliant on them and to lessen the use is just not possible.   There are so many cases now that husbands/wives work in opposite directions and the kids have karate, baseball, basketball and whatever other extra curricular activities at odd times...it can be  just so hard to opperate with only one vehicle.  If the state and/or federal government were willing to help out to make buses and trains accessible, affordable and run 24 hours for EVERYONE, then I think we would be able to get away from using cars so much but I don't see either one doing that!


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## Angie (Jul 5, 2008)

My husbands 93 Nissan 240sx and my 01 VW Beetle are in the driveway, and in the garage is the 56 VW Beetle.


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## jpmcgrew (Jul 5, 2008)

One big problem is this country sucks when it comes to public transportation. I'm talking long distance we have no trains here except Amtrak and they are always on the verge of going under without a government bail out. In Europe they have trains that go absolutely every where and people use them even if the have a car. Here in the states you might have decent public transport in the big cities but nothing outside of those cities. So a lot of us need our vehicles I wish we had more trains but I don't think thats going to happen


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## Bigjim68 (Jul 5, 2008)

I don't think that it really matters how many vehicles you own, but the number of miles driven.  I have two vehicles, one a pickup.  I am going to drive 30K miles/year in my job whether or not I drive one, the other, or both. The truck also serves as my rental for out of town friends, when the car is in for service, or when I need a truck.  The only real difference in cost is insurance, which costs me roughly half again as much as if I had one vehicle.


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## Mama (Jul 5, 2008)

There are two of us and we have three vehicles.  A 2003 Malibu, 2005 Impala and a '68 chevy pickup which never leaves the yard(my DH's hobby).  My hubby drives the Malibu to and from work (30 miles each way and there is no public transportation near where he works) and I work from home so only drive the Impala to the grocery store or to run errands or visit one of my kids.


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## Maverick2272 (Jul 5, 2008)

Yea I totally forgot the 78 Caddy in the garage, another project never finished, LOL. Soon to be rid of it I hope. I think mileage is a very important consideration, for those of us living in cities using public transportation as much as possible can help minimize mileage. The wife puts about 7,800 miles average on her vehicle each year, but then she drives all over the burbs for clients so no surprise there. The family vehicle gets about 3,500 to 4,000 miles put on it each year, depending on whether or not we got to take a family vacation that year.
We have owned the Caddy for about 14 years and are the second owner. We bought it with 106,000 miles on it and it now has 122,000 miles on it. The wife has higher mileage on her van!


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## Claire (Jul 6, 2008)

How funny.  Two drivers, one truck.


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## pot clanger (Jul 6, 2008)

When my beloved '67 Cutlass was totaled (rear-ended! TOTALED, no joke) I bought a used '91 Celica to buzz around in for $3000 while I decided if I was going to restore (for the second time!) the Olds or buy a new car with the settlement $$.  I still own it (the Celica) and it was the best $3K I have ever spent.  It has 250,000 miles on it, and my BF uses it when it rains and she doesn't want to ride her motorcycle to work.  

My love affair with old cars was waned, and I'm no longer actively restoring anything. I have a Murano - first "new" car I've ever owned - (6cyl), lug my 3 dogs and/or nephew around quite a bit, and head into the backcountry for herding, camping, etc. I am slated for a course in motorcycle school, and might buy a bike...much to my mother's horror.


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## cara (Jul 7, 2008)

two drivers, five cars.
Franks Company car (VW Passat), my old Ford Fiesta - who waits for the junkyard - my MB W124 230 Coupe, and our two old ones, Hartmut (MB W114 250/8 '68) and Lucy (MB W111 230S Fintail '65).

Frank needs his car as his dealers are all over Germany, mostly in small towns, no chance for public transport.
I could go with the train, but that takes my almost twice as long as with the car, I very rarely do.
When the weather ist allright I go by bike, it's just around 2miles


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## GotGarlic (Jul 7, 2008)

Two drivers, two small SUVs (Ford Escape), and mine is a gas/electric hybrid (not a plug-in). Before buying the hybrid, I used to fill up every week - now it's every 2-3 weeks.

At this point, we can't get rid of one, because DH works in the town where we live and has to drive around to different locations most days, and I work in a different town. Public transportation is very bad in our area. If home prices improve, we may move to the town where I work, but not right now. Then, public transportation might be possible, but it would depend on where we could afford to move to.

Some other ways I've been conserving are using canvas bags when shopping, bringing my own takeout container so I don't end up throwing away Styrofoam containers, and we replaced all of our bulbs with CFLs. We have ceiling fans in all the bedrooms and all downstairs rooms except the foyer and bathroom - this helps keep the AC usage down.

There are all kinds of innovative ways organizations are developing to help us eliminate the need for burning fossil fuels. Here's one: Zakaria: Craig Venter's Planet-Saving Bacterium | Newsweek Future Of Energy | Newsweek.com

Here are a bunch more: Ten Eco-Friendly Companies | Newsweek Technology | Newsweek.com

There will be new jobs based on new technologies - that's already happening. Just as the buggy and buggy-whip makers went out of business when cars replace buggies, so companies built around carbon-based fuel use will be replaced by those selling the alternatives.


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## VeraBlue (Jul 7, 2008)

Thanks GGarlic, great thoughts and links.


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## Adillo303 (Jul 7, 2008)

Tf we are gonna branch out to other ways to save fossil fuels, which is a very worthy idea, then, these are from another site, but, they are helpful. Many thanks to one of my TDR brothers who has been doing this kind of work for years.

*Shave off a good chunk of cash monthly* 

So one of the biggest energy munchers is cooling the home. This is a ahem ... hot issue if you will but I am going to sit here and spill the same ol' diatribe that your neighbor, and good ol Uncle Smythe (Twice removed) has said. O.K Central systems, window units, and room units (The last one is just insane) are pretty much the norm. How you manage them can save a ton.

O.K we have routines right? Of course we are human! We get up, shower eat (Or not) hop in the truck and go to work. Whoever is the last one out kills the air right? ERRRT don't. When we let the house cook in the mid day heat everything in the home is brought up to the same , hot temp. Walls, countertops, floors, ceilings, toilets, tubs, tile and the list goes on. 

We come home walk in the door and .... ugh Man this sucks it's hot blah whine blah. This can be avoided just by doing a few things to help "seal" the heat OUT. 


Set the A/c to 78* and let it stay there
This takes a TON of load off your system as it does not need to cool down the surfaces in your home that are hot and radiating heat. 78 is ideal as it is the "Norm" or cusp of radiation
Close all the blinds, shutters, closet doors
Close off doors to un-climate controlled areas or that give off heat transfered from the attic area. This holds true ESPECIALLY for cape style homes and colonials!
Window units, seal the gap between upper and lower sash, and even pad the "acordian" sides with some nicely trimmed out styrofoam.
The seal deal is a big one as the fan is drawing air into the unit over the coil while the exhaust or "Hot" side of the unit is just inches away on the other side of that window. Transfer temps creep inbetween the two halves of the window thus making the unit work harder. Styrofoam can be trimmed out in panels and actually make the front of that AC look nicer too.
close off a couple LOWER floor vents to send air upstairs so it works its way DOWN.
Science class .... cold air is heavier ... blah blah makes sence move on.
Filter, FILTER FILTER! keep em clean or changed!
This is a huge performance booster. Cars , Trucks, A/C Clogged filters in an hvac system can cause freezing of the coil which blocks airflow which caused solid ice, floods when melting ... yuk
Clean that AC coil ... Got pets????
What does make it by the filter hits the next stop (Either the Hydronic heating coil if aplicable) the AC coil. Being they are cold and usually wet with condensation being pulled from the air, Pet hair and dust stick really easy!
Clean the condensor unit outside (From inside out like a K&N filter)
Pop the lid (Kill the power first!) and with a hose rince the unit out from th einside out. Scoop out the leaves and mulch and watch the difference!
Shut down heat generating items during non use (Like a computer) night lights, even some stereo equipment.
All eletronics to some extent (PC's Amps, TV's) give off alot of heat. Take away some of the source ans cash is two fold no power consumption and ac efficiency goes up too!
close the flue ( A sealed home's air handler will try and draw make up air from the open flue)
Cold air heavier, yeah We moved on from that one but drawing hot light air through cold is easy too.
"Lock" windows to make a tight seal
Many vinyl windows use the locks to make a tight seal.
Clean windows (Or mirror tint if ya want some home bling)
Clean glass reflects sunrays back out. Clean tinted ones do it better!
clean the refrigerator coil!
The fridge, our pal,buddy, keeper of the cold. When it's coil is dirty it cannot shed heat as easy and makes more heat to do the job it needs to do. More heat means just that .... MORE HEAT into your living space.

Now that all this is done.... You could just wind up saving a nice nut every month. Take that savings and save it twards future home energy upgrades.


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## babetoo (Jul 7, 2008)

keep forgetting to post on this thread. no cars at all in my driveway. i do not own a car. i have a license but do not drive.

i never have since 1982 when i got my license. scares the hell out of me. 

no, it is not all that inconvenient. one learns to deal with it. i grocery shop on line and it is delivered to my home. my pharmacy delivers as well. i do a lot of shopping on line. 

if i really need to go some where in a hurry i call a cab. 

otherwise i go with a friend or one of my grandkids. 

i think not being able to just jump in the car and go somewhere out of boredom is why i learned many of the skills, i have. cooking and sewing and decorating and yard work. 

i am rarely bored and always have something to do, reading is my passion. 

not for everyone but it works for me and my imprint is not to large.

babe


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## MexicoKaren (Jul 7, 2008)

babetoo said:
			
		

> i do not own a car. i have a license but do not drive.


 
I am really impressed - thanks for sharing this with us. Goes to show what someone can do when she uses her ingenuity. I'm sure you have cultivated many, many skills and talents because of the time you have at home. 

I still drive, but very nominally. This is the first time since I was 16 that I have not owned my own car. We have the pickup I made reference to earlier, and I drive it occasionally, but let me tell you, driving in Mexico is not for the faint-hearted, and so I just don't do much driving. We put $200 pesos (about $20) in the tank every 2-3 weeks, so we just don't use it much.


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## Cooper'sMom (Jul 7, 2008)

We have two in the driveway and two in the garage and 4 single engine airplanes in the hangar. In the driveway is a small Mitshubishi we call Betsy. She is our airport car. Then there is the Ford truck, with two gasoline tanks, very expensive to run now what with the price of petrol going up almost everyday. My car has no name yet as it is still brand new to me but it is one of those latest Acura with all the bells and whistles which my dog and I use. Of course I drive and my dog "protects" it.  My husband's luxury car is beside mine called Silvergirl, a MB SLK350. My airplane is now undergoing an annual checkup. It is a single engine Luscombe 1946 called Silveraire. My husband's airplane is another 1946 vintage Swift he also calls Silvergirl, just like his MB. And two other airplanes are renters of space in our hangar. I am an aerial photographer. I use my airplane to take photos, hence I have it for work. It is not as fast as my DH but it is useful to me. Hubby is a vintage plane fanatic.


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## StellaSquash (Jul 7, 2008)

We have two. I worked when we were married, and my husband has always sold cars. That means not only do we get a good deal, but he works 12 hour days. And with two children, I'm not driving out at 9pm at night to pick him up at work. 

I do however try to plan my trips to be more efficient, and get more done in one outing. 

My neighbors, however, have a flippin car lot in their driveway, the road in front of the house, the road in front of the neighbors house.


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