# Is Space Exploration Worth It?



## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

Well I saw that some moon has water. Great. More wasted tax dollars. Couple billion to find water on a round rock in space. Some schools dont have enough money for an arts class. Some counties dont have enough money to help the sick and poor. But hey..... thats alright. Because we found water on a rock.


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

I find that news to be absolutley amazing. That means that there is a good chance there is other life than just what we know of on our planet. That is huge!


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

A crashed UFO to ME is huge. Water on a rock in space is interesting. No offense GB. Tell NASA to call me when they found or done something that actually changes my life for the better besides visco-elastic foam.


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

baby steps DS, baby steps. The life that we eventually find, if we ever do find life, will most likely not be the kind of life that travels in spaceships. Never the less it could help us understand a lot about ourselves which could have huge ramifications in everything from medicine to understanding the human brain to just about anything else.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

I understand where you are comming from GB. Hey Im a geek. I love Star Trek and Doctor Who. Alas this discovery has cost 3.5 BILLION dollars. And it does no one any good. Tell the people who have an illness that 3.5 billion dollars went to find this water. Or the 1.3 billion people who dont have clean drinking water. Or the people that cant afford medicine.
I understand that this discovery is 'cool'. But it does humanity no good. To me its like setting 3.5 billion dollars on fire.


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

I respectfully disagree. You might not see the good this discovery has done, but more good has come out of the space program than we could possibly list here. Yes it is expensive, but there are so many valuable things that have come from it and will continue to come from it that it is just amazing.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

I should explain myself better. NASA HAS done a lot of good. (I was joking about the visco-elastic foam message in the above post) Im saying that missions like the one we are talking about do no good. Satelites are great! The things that orbit our plant for humanities benefit. But sending these things to other planets besides our moon to ME are a total waste. Verging on criminal.


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

You need to take these steps in order to make discoveries. You can't just expect to find stuff out by sitting in a boardroom talking about it. You need to get out there and look. I would not want to live in the world that we would have had we not gained all the knowledge that we already have from missions like this one. Lifespans would be shorter, disease and illnesses would be much greater, we wouldn't have all sorts of modern convieniences that we have now etc.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

Ok to be fair, what is going to be done with this new data? 
How has ANY of these probes helped humanity? 
I do not disagree its important to discover and search. But lets search for a purpose (ie: to find new medicine etc).
And lets explore our own earth 1st! Dont you think it is wiser to spend money exploring our oceans 1st??  
What are we looking for out there that is more important than discovering what we have here? It just seems like a horrible strategy for discovering anything worth our time. 
Lets discover a way to get us away from oil dependancy.
Lets discover a way to find something on earth that will cure or help people.
Lets find a way for the poor to afford medication.


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

What makes you think that those things can be found on Earth and not in space. Why put all your eggs in one basket? Why not explore both? Look at how many things have come out of the space program. Medicine is what it is today because of the space program. 

It is funny that you bring up exporing our oceans vs exporing outer space. I once had a very loud and interesting debate with a co-worker/friend that lasted about 4 hours on that very topic


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

You didnt answer any of the questions I asked you in my last message. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Come on Probe Boy. Lets hear your answers. 




Its like driving to a different COUNTRY to find a job when you havent really looked in the cities around you. And you dont know WHATS in the other country.


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

I only see two questions that you asked and I answered one of them. The other question, "What are we looking for out there that is more important than discovering what we have here?" is not a fair question and also was answered by my answer to your other question. I said that we should not put all of our eggs in one basket. Why should we only explore this planet. Why not expore here AND outer space?

As far as what do we expect to find...How knows, but look at all that we already HAVE found. If we have found that much already don't you think we will continue finding more? We have only scratched the surface of exploration.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

My questions: what is going to be done with this new data? 
How has ANY of these probes helped humanity? 

You said: "As far as what do we expect to find...How knows, but look at all that we already HAVE found."

The things that have been discovered by probes.... what, if anything possitive has come out of them except happy scientists? Also, logically speaking.... would it not be more logical to put the 3.5 billions dollars in a SPECIFIC discovery-ended mission (ie: getting away from oil dependancy) as opposed to "lets send this really expensive probe out to this planet. Why? Ummmmm.... cause we MIGHT find a really NEAT water gyser. What are we going to DO with it... IF we find it?? Ummmmmm..... take some pictures and get really excited!! Whats that you say? Is that worth 3.5 BILLION dollars? Well YEAH! *Im* not paying for it, so why not??? Sure we could help out our country by doing OTHER things with the money.... but just THINK how happy you are going to be when you see the AWSOME blow-hole in a planet...... that is..... IF there IS one."


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## mudbug (Mar 10, 2006)

Boy, are you in a bad mood, Sush..........

Tell the old guys - Captain Cook, Magellan, Vasco de Gama -- and Christopher-f-ing-Columbus, fer cryin out loud -- that it was all a waste of time and money.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

James Cook: sailed to chart the land for war reasons.

Magellan: Wanted to find a route to the Moluccas. If Magellan could reach the Moluccas from the West, Spain's wealth would surpass all other countries. He sailed around the world.

Vasco da Gama:Established trade route from Europe to India. He was a pirate and murder. " At one point, da Gama waited for a ship to return from Mecca, and seized all the merchandise; they then locked the 380 passengers in the hold and set the ship on fire. It took four days for the ship to sink, killing all men, women, and children."

Chris Columbus: While on a voyage of exploration for Spain in search of a direct sea trade route to the Far East, Christopher Columbus unintentionally discovered the New World.

All these folks went for a reason. For expanded trade. (and or war advantages) More trade = more money and better living.  Have to say I learned a lot researching these guys!!


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

Nasa is out there trying to learn about how the earth was created. If there is more life out there. Looking for new ways to do things better that we already do here. Looking for new materials to do those things.

They are not just jumping in a spaceship and going for a joy ride. Each launch has many different purposes.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

How the earth was created: to what benefit??? and maybe they should finish exploring the sea 1st. Hey why not explore your backyard before going across town?

To see if there is more life: Let them come to US. Im in no rush to find out. I rather findout answers to more pressing questions. 

Looking to improve ways of doing things: Why do we have to send muli-billion dollar probes to a planet to see a big blow-hole to accomplish that?

Looking for new materials:We can do that on earth just as easily by exploring the ocean. 

Again, Im not against obiting satelites that are beneficial. Im against spending tax dollars on something that is a fun toy for astronomers and scientists. You still didnt answer my 2 questions:

What is going to be done with this new data on the gyser? 
How has ANY of these probes helped humanity? 
How has finding this thing changed anything? Why should I care about the gyser except for it being 'neat'?


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

-DEADLY SUSHI- said:
			
		

> What is going to be done with this new data on the gyser?


This goes to prove that life could possibly exist elsewhere. You can't tell me that that is not worth a few billion to find out.



			
				-DEADLY SUSHI- said:
			
		

> How has ANY of these probes helped humanity?
> How has finding this thing changed anything? Why should I care about the gyser except for it being 'neat'?


I am not exactly sure which probes you are talking about. there have been many many probes that have been launched, each with a different purpose.


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## Debbie (Mar 10, 2006)

ok ok ok   everybody behave or I am pulling the car over, and letting you guys out   

 just teasin.. just thought I would break up the tension a bit


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

I guess we DS and I should post a message that he and I have discussed this in PM's and want to assure everyone that we are not fighting, but just having a lively converstion. One of which we are on opposite sides. We are still very much friends and don't want anyone to get the wrong idea that this is a fight


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## kimbaby (Mar 10, 2006)

I smell a debate brewing,keep it civil guys 
DEBBIE iS pulling the car over lol...
oh and for the record I am very amazed at news of water on saturns moon,just wondering what caused this phenomonem?


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

I dont think it would be worth 3.5 billion to find out that there MIGHT be life in or on a distant moon. Not even worth spending $10,000 to me. You have to sell me on this. Its like saying Sushi..... I have an automatic nose picker made just for YOU! How much is it worth? I'll pay a buck because its funny looking. But I dont need it. 
NOW..... if it discovered *cute alien red heads* then its worth every darn penny! I could use THAT. I cant USE a microbe. I dont NEED a microbe. And why spend 3.5 billion to search for one that Im not sure even exists?!

And Im not looking for feedback on every probe. My question is has ANY of these probes helped humanity? ANY of them?! I havent heard of anything except geeks like ME saying..... hey..... thats kinda neat.


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## sattie (Mar 10, 2006)

My tax dollar (to me) would be better spent helping to feed someone that has no food, or that has no shelter or the means to supply shelter for themselves. Or folks that have had a bad run of things (victims of disaster). I think exploration is fine, but not at the expense of human life, which so often to me seems to be put on the back burner. Maybe if we spent a billion dollars to take care of our own, then spent 50 thousand on space exploration? I don't doubt the value of exploration, just think our priorities are a bit mixed up from a goverment perspective. 

Yikes!


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

Space exploration actually HAS helped feed people. Hydoponics was developed by the pace program as a way to grow food in space without soil. This is now a huge way in which food is being grown that is healthier and less prone to disease.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

> I smell a debate brewing,keep it civil guys
> DEBBIE iS pulling the car over lol...
> oh and for the record I am very amazed at news of water on saturns moon,just wondering what caused this phenomonem?


 
   GB said it all. We are just having fun debating!   Its fun! Join in and prove that GB is wrong!    Ummmmmmm.... I mean ahhhh... join in the discussion!!!


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## sattie (Mar 10, 2006)

GB said:
			
		

> Space exploration actually HAS helped feed people. Hydoponics was developed by the pace program as a way to grow food in space without soil. This is now a huge way in which food is being grown that is healthier and less prone to disease.


 
Like I said, I never doubt the value of exploration.... I just doubt the ability of our government to use our money wisely.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

> Space exploration actually HAS helped feed people. Hydoponics was developed by the pace program as a way to grow food in space without soil. This is now a huge way in which food is being grown that is healthier and less prone to disease.


 
GB sattie is talking about probes I believe. Not about manned flights into space. Also, they PROVED that hydroponics work in space. They didnt discover it. At least from what I recall. Im going to have to seach that topic.


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

sattie said:
			
		

> Like I said, I never doubt the value of exploration.... I just doubt the ability of our government to use our money wisely.


LOL that is another topic altogether that I bet most of us would agree with you on, but lets make sure to not let this get political as that goes against our community policies


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

-DEADLY SUSHI- said:
			
		

> Also, they PROVED that hydroponics work in space. They didnt discover it. At least from what I recall. Im going to have to seach that topic.


No it was not discovered in space, but it came to fruition because of space exploration.


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## sattie (Mar 10, 2006)

-DEADLY SUSHI- said:
			
		

> GB sattie is talking about probes I believe. Not about manned flights into space. Also, they PROVED that hydroponics work in space. They didnt discover it. At least from what I recall. Im going to have to seach that topic.


 
I would be referring to any space exploration... be it to the moon or where ever... man or unmanned.  

I am gonna bail out of this one before I make to many folks sour.  I think it is a great topic and some very valid points are made.

Cheers!


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## sattie (Mar 10, 2006)

GB said:
			
		

> LOL that is another topic altogether that I bet most of us would agree with you on, but lets make sure to not let this get political as that goes against our community policies


 
Sorry...   Politics are not my thing either!!!


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

Actually hydroponics have been used during AND before 1940!!! Heres the link: *1940's: Hydroponic Technology Used in W W II to Feed Troops*
*http://www.hydroponicsonline.com/lessons/History/lesson2-1history.htm*

Its really interesing!!


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

sattie said:
			
		

> Sorry...   Politics are not my thing either!!!


No need to be sorry  Keep discussing with us


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

-DEADLY SUSHI- said:
			
		

> Its really interesing!!


Wow that really is very interesting, especially about the Hanging Gardens of Babylon. I did not realize that.


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## texasgirl (Mar 10, 2006)

When going into space cures cancer, AIDS, Sickle Cell, etc.... call me! Until then, I don't think spending millions of money to see what is on other planets is worth it. NO OFFENCE to ANYONE on here. I understand the feelings of people that really want something to come out of all of this and yes, I know that something will, but, until we can use money to cure diseases that we have here, on Earth, I don't think we need to worry about what kind of rocks or where the water is or whatever, on other planets. Yes,I'm very hardened on things like this, and I'm sorry if I offend anyone, I really don't mean too. My mom dad at age 54 after never smoking, always excersising and rarely drinking to Colon Cancer. They don't know why though. I want more money into these disease centers to find out WHY they are dying!! All of them have to raise there own money and hope for grants to do their research.
Okay, I'll stop being a grump. 
I know it's neat to find evidence that their may be living beings on other planets, I just want to help what and who we have here with some of that money first until there is a solid reason to do otherwise.


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## sattie (Mar 10, 2006)

GB said:
			
		

> No need to be sorry  Keep discussing with us


 
I feel a bit out of my league.... you guys seem to have your finger on the pulse, me, just a humble and maybe a bit uninformed opinion on things.  

You guys are great, this is one forum I enjoy and never expected to get more than food tips and ideas from it.  Instead, I feel a family here and that is really neat!!!!


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

Texasgirl youre a not being a grump! You are just joining the discussion!  



> Instead, I feel a family here and that is really neat!!!!


Sattie that is VERY nice of you to say!!! I also feel the same. Here are some flowers----> 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You can use hydroponics to water them too!!


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

TG you are not offending anyone. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and you opinion is just as valuable as anyone elses.

While space exploration may not have cured any diseases (yet) it had improved medical technology in many many ways and I do not doubt that with further exploration we may see cures come out of space.

Here is one article that talks about medical advances from pace makers to the implantable insulin pump and others.


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## sattie (Mar 10, 2006)

-DEADLY SUSHI- said:
			
		

> Texasgirl youre a not being a grump! You are just joining the discussion!
> 
> 
> Sattie that is VERY nice of you to say!!! I also feel the same. Here are some flowers---->
> ...


 
LOL.... thank you for the flowers!!!      You pokin that stick in the ant hill!!!


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

> Wow that really is very interesting, especially about the Hanging Gardens of Babylon. I did not realize that.


 
Yeah it is! Heck Ive learned more in this thread than I have learned anywhere else in about a week!!   Early explorers.... water gardens in 600BC! Im really enjoying this!!!


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## kimbaby (Mar 10, 2006)

GB said:
			
		

> TG you are not offending anyone. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and you opinion is just as valuable as anyone elses.
> 
> While space exploration may not have cured any diseases (yet) it had improved medical technology in many many ways and I do not doubt that with further exploration we may see cures come out of space.
> 
> Here is one article that talks about medical advances from pace makers to the implantable insulin pump and others.


I sure do hope so.... we have so many diseases,where people lose thier lives way to young... so I am all for it even if there is a slight chance...


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

Here is a facinating article about what we are discussing. The good stuff starts about halfway down with this paragraph...

Some, of course, maintain that the U.S. should simply not be involved in human space flight to begin with. This brings us to the classic argument of whether human space exploration in general is a good thing, worth reviewing in light of the current plans.

Start reading there if you don't want to read all of the article.


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## ronjohn55 (Mar 10, 2006)

sattie said:
			
		

> Like I said, I never doubt the value of exploration.... I just doubt the ability of our government to use our money wisely.


 
Can I get an Amen?!?!

The ability of professional politicians to appear stupid has never ceased to amaxe me!

Recently, after their lawyers tol them it would be illegal, the Detroit city council voteds a water rate increase for the suburbs only...

Needless to say, it hit the fan!

As for the space thing, I'm on the fence there are benefits, but it there are sacrifices, too. 

John


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

OK guys we need to remember to not let politics work its way into this discussion.

Check out this page for more benefits of the space program.


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## MJ (Mar 10, 2006)

GB said:
			
		

> They are not just jumping in a spaceship and going for a joy ride.


That sure would be fun though. Fuel up the spaceship Sushi, lets go for a ride!  

I wonder if pizza dough would rise in space? That would be worth the 3.5 B to find out.


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## sattie (Mar 10, 2006)

MJ said:
			
		

> That sure would be fun though. Fuel up the spaceship Sushi, lets go for a ride!
> 
> I wonder if pizza dough would rise in space? That would be worth the 3.5 B to find out.


 
I would go if there is pizza!


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## corazon (Mar 10, 2006)

Why can't we find the cure for the common cold?  I'm miserable here.


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## texasgirl (Mar 10, 2006)

GB said:
			
		

> TG you are not offending anyone. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and you opinion is just as valuable as anyone elses.
> 
> While space exploration may not have cured any diseases (yet) it had improved medical technology in many many ways and I do not doubt that with further exploration we may see cures come out of space.
> 
> Here is one article that talks about medical advances from pace makers to the implantable insulin pump and others.


 
I'm very glad these medical breakthroughs were done by means of NASA. And yes, I'm a negative person with this, because, what I read, is, that they didn't make these things because of some medical condition, they made them to help space exploration. The blood pressure machine was made to see what happens to Alan Shepherds blood pressure when they take off. It's more like playing and seeing what they can make, to do things like this. It wasn't made because a man came to the Dr. with chest pain and made to see why his heart was bothering him. That to me is making medical history, not playing in space and THEN thinking that it can be used to help somewhere else. In the time that they were using it on Shepherd in space, they could possibly have saved lives because they were concentrating on " ooo, I wonder what his heart does at that speed"
Don't get me wrong, these things have helped lots of people and saved lives, but, my point is that it should have been made in the name of medical technology, not, space travel technology.
I'm rambling and probably don't make sense. That is why I have never been good at fighting for what I believe in. I don't have the right words to say what I'm wanting to say. Oh well, hopefully someone can make sense out of my ramblings.


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## Debbie (Mar 10, 2006)

corazon90 said:
			
		

> Why can't we find the cure for the common cold? I'm miserable here.


 
 have you ever tried that airborne stuff?    Actually Wal mart has their own brand ummm called something like Germ defense...  works great to fight a cold!


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

Ok..... great. An offshoot from NASA is spiffy. Dont you think though.... that instead of the government paying for a 3.5 billion PROBE and getting better dental floss as an after thought...... that it would be in the tax payers interest to let companies "discover" these niffty things?

Also put into perspective. Research from private companies have discovered 100s of thousands of niffty things. If we are spending 3.5 billion for a probe and all we see from it is a better type of foam that a private company could have discovered INSTEAD of NASA...... then us as a tax payer are getting ripped off! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Now GB.... outside of the "off-shoot"s of these expensive toys..... what have the ACTUAL toy done for us???


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## Debbie (Mar 10, 2006)

I wonder if pizza dough would rise in space? That would be worth the 3.5 B to find out.[/quote]

  Dag nab it... now you gone and done made me hungry, thinking about your pizza!  LOL


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

> That sure would be fun though. Fuel up the spaceship Sushi, lets go for a ride!
> 
> I wonder if pizza dough would rise in space? That would be worth the 3.5 B to find out.


 
   Ok MJ! My ship should be built right after the 2nd comming of Jesus is due.  By that time we could ask Him to see if pizza dough will rise in the vaccum of space!!!  
I wonder...... if the yeast survives.... Im sure it can rise! I'll write NASA so they can build a probe that shoots out pizza dough (made by MJ of course) at one of the moons of Jupiter (its warmer than most planets so it might help it rise. LOL!!!!!!!!)


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

Look. I'll put in 1/4 of my pay check (when I get another job.  ) into NASA if it develops a gene that can make most women have freckles with red hair. OR......
A gene that makes ME irresistable to the women Im attracted too.
ORRR.....
A beer that has great taste AND is less filling!!!


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

MMMMMMM Space Pizza 

Sush, I am not sure why you are downplaying the "offshoots". Aren't these things worth anything? They are currently saving millions of lives.

Also I am not sure where this $3.5 billion number is coming from. Did you read that somewhere?


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

-DEADLY SUSHI- said:
			
		

> Look. I'll put in 1/4 of my pay check (when I get another job.  ) into NASA if it develops a gene that can make most women have freckles with red hair. OR......
> A gene that makes ME irresistable to the women Im attracted too.
> ORRR.....
> A beer that has great taste AND is less filling!!!


Now those things WOULD be worth $3.5B


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

I got the figure from MSNBCs coverage. Its on the SPACE page.

Here is what youre saying.......
Say we build the Titanic to explore the ocean waves or something. Darn thing hits an iceburg and sinks. What did we get out of it? A 500 million dollar discovery that we should put more lifeboats on a cruise ship and Leonardo DiCaprio cant act.


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

-DEADLY SUSHI- said:
			
		

> Here is what youre saying.......
> Say we build the Titanic to explore the ocean waves or something. Darn thing hits an iceburg and sinks. What did we get out of it? A 500 million dollar discovery that we should put more lifeboats on a cruise ship and Leonardo DiCaprio cant act.


We don't need to spend 500 mil to find out the LD can't act  

That is not at all what I am saying. To go along with your analogy, Out of that situation we would gain knowledge of how to prevent tradgedys like that in the future. How to build better lifeboats. How to contruct better life preservers. The alternative would be never leaving our backyard. Staying in the same spot we have always been instead of going out and exploring and learning new things. 

DS you seem to be all for ocean exploration. The same problems can happen with that as with space exploration.


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## texasgirl (Mar 10, 2006)

-DEADLY SUSHI- said:
			
		

> I got the figure from MSNBCs coverage. Its on the SPACE page.
> 
> Here is what youre saying.......
> Say we build the Titanic to explore the ocean waves or something. Darn thing hits an iceburg and sinks. What did we get out of it? A 500 million dollar discovery that we should put more lifeboats on a cruise ship and Leonardo DiCaprio cant act.


 
 That's great, Sushi!!


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## Michael in FtW (Mar 10, 2006)

I can only wonder if the families of the "alien astronauts" who crashed into the New Mexico desert near Roswell in 1947 thought their loved one's lives were worth the sacrifice to explore distant regions of space in search of answers to the origins of the universe, possibly their origins, and to determine if they were alone in the universe? 

Should money be spent to explore the unknown? I don't know ... but without both the money and the exploration - we might still be living with the idea that the earth is flat.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

Right!!! I agree GB! So lets spend 500 mil. on something to explore the ocean and NOT 3.5 Billion on a "Planet Blow-Hole" finder!


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

Michael in FtW said:
			
		

> I can only wonder if the families of the "alien astronauts" who crashed into the New Mexico desert near Roswell in 1947 thought their loved one's lives were worth the sacrifice to explore distant regions of space in search of answers to the origins of the universe, possibly their origins, and to determine if they were alone in the universe?


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## texasgirl (Mar 10, 2006)

Probably not, but, if it hadn't happened, we wouldn't have {IMHO} one of the best alien based movies ever "Independence Day" LOL


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## ronjohn55 (Mar 10, 2006)

-DEADLY SUSHI- said:
			
		

> A beer that has great taste AND is less filling!!!


 
Heck Sushi, I can do that! You just need to come to Detroit after Easter so we can conduct a tasting study to find out what you're looking for!

(Since beers don't have freckles and red hair...)

John


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

RonJohn... can you make something thats like Killians Red? Then I can drink beer AND pretend I have a red head with freckles next to me too??! (the bubbles are the freckles  )


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## ronjohn55 (Mar 10, 2006)

-DEADLY SUSHI- said:
			
		

> RonJohn... can you make something thats like Killians Red? Then I can drink beer AND pretend I have a red head with freckles next to me too??! (the bubbles are the freckles  )


 
Absolutely!

Just give me a reminder after Easter, and I'll get you few bottles of what I come up with. I just can't properly research the project until after ent is done...

John


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

Sure RonJohn..... but ahhhhhhhh.... whats "ent"???


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## texasgirl (Mar 10, 2006)

I think he meant Lent. LOL


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

Oh. Im as smart as I am attractive.


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## ronjohn55 (Mar 10, 2006)

-DEADLY SUSHI- said:
			
		

> Oh. Im as smart as I am attractive.


 
Don't worry Sushi, I'm a FAR better brewer than I am typist...  

John


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## college_cook (Mar 10, 2006)

I've got to put in my two cents... 

I think exploration is important... for the previously given examples of Megellan, Columbus, etc.  I realize that all of their travels resulted in some phenomenal discoveries or accomplishments, but how many hundreds of explorers had to fail before they could succeed?

I have no doubt that there are innumerable benfits to space exploratrion, but I also realize I may not reap the benefits in my lifetime.  I think simply to discover any life form outside of our planet would be the greatest discovery the world has ever seen.  Though life on our planet is incredibly diverse, no two species are  really fundamentally different from each other.  All existing lifeforms that we know of require at least carbon and oxygen to exist.  What if we find a lifeform that requires, say, only nitrogen to exist?  The potential benefits resulting from research on this lifeform could be endless.  Furthermore, even if we only find organisms similar to ourselves, we may discover new microbes, which are very very very important to our existence, sorry DS.

I do agree with DS on the claim that companies should be the ones exploring space.  This will happen in time.  The reason it has not happened yet is  because companies have no motivation to go exploring in space.  There are still to many emerging markets in under-developed nations for them to focus on the zero emerging markets resulting from space exploration.

I also agree somewhat on the sea exploration claim.  I really do wish more research could be done on the oceans and on ocean life b/c the oceans probably hold more resources than ever resource we have available to us on land.  Since water happens to be so plentiful, I really think it would be practical for our scientists to research alternative energy sources resulting from the oceans or from water.

I think thats all... I look forward to everyone's replies!


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

College Cook...... I agree with you 95%!!! 
Exploring space is important. Just not now. Maybe in 100 years. Why dont you think companies havent explored space yet? Well you answered that question. No REASON to. Still PLEANTY of things to explore here on earth!!

*I strongly feel exploring that expends a LOT of money should be done in a logical AND economical way!!!!! And if the government is doing it, it should have TANGIBLE results that help its population. Not just put a probe out there "because of what we MIGHT find thats USEFUL".  *


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

-DEADLY SUSHI- said:
			
		

> CNot just put a probe out there "because of what we MIGHT find thats USEFUL".   [/B]


Sush how do you know what you will find unless you look?


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

Well I could look in the vaccum of space..... populated by rocks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




ORRRRRR.....
I could focus on the vast ocean that is teaming with life. 
Which would YOU choose??
Did I mention the dead rock infested space is probably 50 times MORE expensive to check out?


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

-DEADLY SUSHI- said:
			
		

> Well I could look in the vaccum of space..... populated by rocks.
> 
> ORRRRRR.....
> I could focus on the vast ocean that is teaming with life.
> Which would YOU choose??


Ahhh but sush we just found the possibility of vast oceans and the possibility of life.


			
				-DEADLY SUSHI- said:
			
		

> Did I mention the dead rock infested space is probably 50 times MORE expensive to check out?


I am not so sure I can agree with this statement. We have figured out how to go into space, yet for all the money we have sunk (granted most of it is private money) we can not get to the seepest parts of the ocean yet.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

OH! And how about this....... metorites are found on the earth every week? Analyze THOSE suckers. Plenty to go around! And the cost to find em? Couple of thousand for a nice rock I betcha. 
Also, doing some research today. All I found with exploring space...... pictures. COOL pictures. But thats IT. Seriously. All these probes..... all they have is pictures and dirt samples.


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

What about all the links I sent you DS? Tons of good has come from the space program.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

> Ahhh but sush we just found the possibility of vast oceans and the possibility of life.


I found the possibillity that we POSSIBLY found nothing thats worth over $100 bucks.  



> I am not so sure I can agree with this statement. We have figured out how to go into space, yet for all the money we have sunk (granted most of it is private money) we can not get to the seepest parts of the ocean yet.


 
Well we have to spend money to explore it first.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

> What about all the links I sent you DS? Tons of good has come from the space program.


 
If tons of good came from DEVELOPING things to explore space.... then is it NOT logical that "tons" of good things will come from exploring the ocean??? AND.... for a LOT less.


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

Yes the possibility. You need to start somewhere DS. baby steps. When you learned to walk you didn't start by running a marathon.


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

I am not saying we should not be exploring the oceans. I am all for that. I think there is TONS to learn there too. I am saying there is not reason not to do both. It does not need to be one OR the other.

I do not agree that is will cost less to explore the ocean though. I think it can easily be just as expensive.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

Dude if Im looking for redheads.... Im NOT going to South Africa!! Im going to Scotland! (space=South Africa....... Ocean= Scotland)


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

Yeah but everyone knows that all of the real aliens (not the Hollywood kind) have freckles.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

Ok. You won. Space it is.


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

I will see you up there


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## amber (Mar 10, 2006)

-DEADLY SUSHI- said:
			
		

> Well I saw that some moon has water. Great. More wasted tax dollars. Couple billion to find water on a round rock in space. Some schools dont have enough money for an arts class. Some counties dont have enough money to help the sick and poor. But hey..... thats alright. Because we found water on a rock.


 
Actually it was Saturn.  The temp is -300 degrees and yet there is water in a warm spring.  I find that to be rather odd but promising ( science which works for kids in the classroom).  Education is key, whether it be science, math, etc.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

Actually it was a MOON of Saturn called Enceladus. There is water under the surface. It acts like a geyser. When the water goes through the blow-hole it turns into crystals. Yippie. 3.5 billion well spent. We just came closer to curing an illness. Oh...... wait........ we didnt. (amber Im not trying to act like a jerk. Im trying to be somewhat entertaining while getting my point across.  )


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

But DS how do you know that that will not get us closer to curing an illness or something. Every discovery opens doors and understanding and this liquid water is a MAJOR discovery.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

GB I'll bet you 3.5 BILLION dollars it dosent get us closer. Ante up.


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

I only have 2b. Will you take an IOU if I lose?


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

How much is your watch worth? Looks like a nice one!!!


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## GB (Mar 10, 2006)

Sorry I got it off the back of a truck. It only LOOKS like it is would 1.5 billion


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## Alix (Mar 10, 2006)

(maybe its in Canadian funds....)


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## ronjohn55 (Mar 10, 2006)

Alix said:
			
		

> (maybe its in Canadian funds....)


 
So that's what, $25 US funds?

John


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

RonJohn. OUCH!  $25 bucks man? Canadian currency isnt THAT bad! *mummble.... $55  )


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## Andy M. (Mar 10, 2006)

GB said:
			
		

> But DS how do you know that that will not get us closer to curing an illness or something. Every discovery opens doors and understanding and this liquid water is a MAJOR discovery.


 
It's this speculative nature of the exploration that works against the 'gains from space travel' argument.  It's not a directed exploration like the historical examples cited earlier.  

Also, while some discoveries can be attributed to the space program, you cannot conclude these things would not have been invented sooner or later regardless.  Also, consider that, if space exploration money had been spent differently, other great inventions may have resulted.

This is a subject I wrestle with.  I realize that, looking at the "Big Picture", space exploration is important to the development of mankind.  However, I often look a lot closer to home and think how much good that kind of money would do right now, close to home, for a lot of people.

The 'space race' was brought to the forefront of the national consciousness as a political issue.  The Soviets were beating us!  It became a component of the cold war along with the Olympics and the arms race.

Every group of scientists wants money and priority for their research.  Whether it's for disease, space, oceanic, volcanic, climatic, etc. research.  They can all justify their needs and they are probably all right.  We have to find a better way to prioritize our expenditures.

So I guess I'm coming down, not on either DS's or GB's sides, but squarly in the middle.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 10, 2006)

Andy Im with you 110%. Discover what we have here 1st. Its the least expensive exploration. After we have exhausted the earth for discoveries, then lets goto space. By THEN our technology will be much more efficent to explore space properly. I would like to envision in 50-100 years something that looks like Star Trek. (for those of you that dont get into Trek it would take FAR to long to explain the scientific capabilities) Did I mention I can t spell for the life of me? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




Anyhow, we currently have exellent tech. to truely explore what is in the waters of this planet. TONS of life out there, unexplored. Lets DO it. After we understand and possibly populate the oceans..... lets goto space. Money-wise it makes sense. Logicaly it makes sense. Yes..... I AM Spock. And Spock loves SUSHI!!!!


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## GB (Mar 11, 2006)

DS I am not sure where you get the idea that it would be less expensive to explore the deep ocean.


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## grumblebee (Mar 11, 2006)

I think that exploration shouldn't be our biggest priority. (in space OR on earth) I think we need to invest in a plan to help preserve and protect what we already know exists. The fact that between 40-100 species of flora and fauna go EXTINCT every single day is very disturbing and sad to me... 

We need to protect and conserve what was already have before we do anything else. 

But this is my opinion and some people may think that other issues need priority status...


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## sattie (Mar 11, 2006)

grumblebee said:
			
		

> I think that exploration shouldn't be our biggest priority. (in space OR on earth) I think we need to invest in a plan to help preserve and protect what we already know exists. The fact that between 40-100 species of flora and fauna go EXTINCT every single day is very disturbing and sad to me...
> 
> We need to protect and conserve what was already have before we do anything else.
> 
> But this is my opinion and some people may think that other issues need priority status...


 
I like what you have stated here... seems like where we go to explore, we somehow manage to destroy or make a mess of it.  We are often times our own worst enemy.


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## buckytom (Mar 11, 2006)

the greatest threat to humankind and all living things on this planet, as has happened before (just ask the dinosaurs) is a large asteroid colliding into the earth. if we don't start looking upwards and outwards, and start to come up with a plan to prevent it, we're doomed. it might not be until your great great grandchildren's lifetime, or it could happen next year. either way, we need to become proficient at space exploration to be able to protect ourselves.

i say we send ds up looking for red headed space monsters...


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## college_cook (Mar 11, 2006)

*Sorry for the novel!*

There's great arguments to be made both for space exploration as well as taking care of what we have now, and fixing the problems we have now.  The problem is that if we always focus on the here and now then it is impossible to achieve technological/scientific advances at the current pace tat we do.

I really do believe more should be done to provide humanitarian aid around the world.  My views on exactly what should be done are probably miles away from what everyone else thinks, but that's  whole other debate.  The problem is that most of the aid that developing nations recieve as donations from our government does not get to them.  The level of governmental corruption and the power of the upper class in developing nations is close to unfathomable to most of us living in industrialized nations.  Cash donations especially are mis-used.  The best option, though it takes quite a bit of time, is to allow trade to continue as it does now and wait for companies to go searching for labor in underdeveloped nations.  Ironically I had 3 midterm papers due just this week that all centered on outsourcing, and it is really quite a force to be reckoned with.  It is allowing consumer nations (US, west europe, japan) to pass off the manufacturing work at dirt cheap costs to other countries, and provides us with much cheaper goods.  While this sound like it takes advantage of poor workers, first consider the fact that most of these workers would be jobless without the existence of outsourcing.  So far as I've found, this is the most effective way to inject money into underdeveloped nations, unless you start overthrowing governments and installing fair trade systems within th enew ones.  Like I said before, that is a whole other debate.

My point is this- a very low percentage of the aid we send to developed nations actually gets to the people its meant for.  Therefore, I think it is important for us to further our scientific research.  Perhaps we will discover beter methods of growing food, or new drugs and medicines, or even new markets that could possibly emerge out of space exploration and ocean exploration.

The other big big reason i think exploration is critical is that the world's population is growing faster than our food production is growing.  Currently we can make enough food for everyone in the world, and thousands  still starve b/c we foreign aid is mis-managed.  It won't be long before our poopulation starts over-whelming our food production.  It could be as early as 50 years from now.  

Unless we want our population to top out at around 12 billion, and then allow 3 billion people to slowly die off from starvation or disease, we have got to find new places to grow food, and new places for people to live.  Scientists estimate that the Earth's population will stabilize around 9 billion people, because that's about how many resources this planet can provide.

There are a lot of issues facing the nations of the world, but now we are starting to see issues that may press us as a species.  And I'm sorry, our world is in no shape to start dealing with problems like global overpopulation and global starvation or epidemics.  This is why it's important to explore now.  I'm sure that we won't find anything for a long time, but because of research and exploration we can learn how to build better rocketships, perhaps learn to engineer a better fuel/energy source.  If we don't spend money on science then where will we get the technologies  to achieve what we will need to achieve in the future?


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## buckytom (Mar 11, 2006)

very cool, cc. you're not wasting your college money, i see.


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 11, 2006)

NO space exploration. Worthless! We should throw all our money in a resource that fades every DAY! Women getting old. This is an epademic! We want all women not to age!


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 11, 2006)

I have to mention that Im VERY happy that so many folks have contributed to this topic. It really encourages me to research and learn more about the topic. It just goes to prove that this Foodie website is much MORE than a foodie website.


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## middie (Mar 12, 2006)

Isn't all exploration worth it ?
*shutting up now*


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## -DEADLY SUSHI- (Mar 12, 2006)

I just explored my nose.


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## middie (Mar 12, 2006)

Okay Sush... except maybe that lol


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