# Finally Solved Baked Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast Connundrum



## SeanCan'tCook (Jun 12, 2021)

So I've been trying to figure out an easy, tasty boneless, skinless chicken breast recipe to use as a 2-3 times a week staple for over a decade.  I've tried grilling, poaching, steaming in a rice cooker, pan frying and baking.  None have been satisfying.

Recently I started experimenting with baking and spice mixes/rubs.  They were better than many other things I'd tried, but still not what I've been hoping for.

I had some burgers over at a friend's house recently that were really good.  He said all he did was season them with McCormick's Montreal Steak Seasoning. 

I decided to try it on the chicken breasts.

I wanted to try 2 teaspoons of seasoning per chicken breast.  I got 2 bowls, one for the top side and one for the bottom side.  My plan was to measure out half the Montreal Steak Seasoning for the top and half for the bottom.  I didn't realize it until later, but I forgot to split it.  I put 2 teaspoons for each chicken breast in each bowl; twice as much as I'd planned.

I sprayed some butter-flavored Pam in a Pyrex baking dish, put some EVOO in a bowl and thoroughly tossed each chicken breast in it, placing them top-side-up in the baking dish.  Then I took a spoon and one of the bowls of Montreal Steak Seasoning and spread the spice mix as equally as I could over the chicken breasts, then used the spoon to rub it around on them.  Next I flipped them over, took the other bowl of Montreal Steak Seasoning and repeated the process.

I put them in a 425 degree oven for 15 minutes, then took them out to check the temps.  It was obvious they weren't anywhere near done, so I flipped them over and put them back in for another 15 minutes.

After I took them out that time the thinnest breast was done.  The rest were in the 140s, so I put them back in for 10 minutes.  That did it, all were between 160 and 165 degrees.  I let them rest for 10 minutes, then tried one out.

It was amazingly tender and juicy.  In fact, there was a ton of juice in the baking dish.  I dipped a spoon in it and tried it.  It was delicious!  I split the juice and bits among the containers I was storing the rest of the chicken breasts in, saving a little for the one I was eating.

It was really good, but overpowering.  I realized I'd put double the amount of McCormick's Montreal Steak Seasoning on it that I'd intended to.  I scraped some off and it was better.

Even as over-seasoned as it was, I realized I was on to something.  I made it again last night, this time cutting the spice mix from 2 teaspoons per side to 1 1/2.  It was much better, but still a little too much.  I'm going to cut it to 1 teaspoon per side for the next time.

I'm also going to get a battery-operated spice grinder and set it on ultrafine so I can get a more even spread of the spice mix on the chicken breasts.

Oh, and the JUICES!  When I was a kid, my mother would occasionally broil steaks.  After they were done, she would take bread and dip it in the drippings in the broiler pan until it was saturated.

That bread was better than the steaks!  The concentrated flavor hit you like a punch in the face.  I dipped some bread in that chicken juice and it was very similar.  Awesome flavor!

I saw where McCormick's has Montreal Chicken Seasoning.  I'm gonna try it out after I've perfected this recipe, but I find it hard to imagine it being any better!

Are there any other spice mixes to try?


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## taxlady (Jun 12, 2021)

I like to make a vinaigrette of 


3/4 of a cup of EVOO
1/4 cup good vinegar of choice. I usually use apple cider vinegar, but wine vinegar would be good too.
1 tablespoon of dried herbs
1/2 tsp garlic powder
1/4 tsp onion powder.
a heaping 1/8 tsp salt

Put it all in a jar and screw the lid on tight, then shake it well. This works well as a marinade for chicken breasts. Yes, this makes a lot of vinaigrette / marinade, but what you don't use will keep in the fridge for a couple of weeks, as long as you use dried herbs and garlic powder and onion powder, not fresh.

For chicken, I have found that the following combo of herbs works really well: 


parsley
sage
rosemary
and thyme
(Yes, like the song Scarborough Fair - makes it easy to remember.)

A teaspoon to a tablespoon of Dijon in the vinaigrette won't hurt, but isn't necessary, and it will help emulsify the vinaigrette, which is also excellent on salad.

I pour a little on each chicken breast and spread it with a silicone pastry brush to coat the chicken. I haven't measured, but I imagine it's about one or one and half tablespoons of marinade for each chicken breast. Since there is acid in this marinade, I wouldn't leave it to marinate for more than about an hour before baking the chicken. I don't usually let it sit. I put it on the chicken and futz with other stuff for about 5 minutes before baking it.


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## dragnlaw (Jun 12, 2021)

*SeanCan'tCook*,  I'm puzzled as to why you were using so much spice to begin with.  With most of those mixed spices I would only sprinkle on top and bottom of the meat.  Has always been plenty and in my mind that is the way they were intended to be used. 

There are many blended spices out there,  you just have to find the ones you like best.  Unfortunately they are usually on the expensive side and in large jars.  This ends up crowding your cupboard and wasting you money if you don't like it.  

Various bloggers have tons of "homemade" spice mixes.  Have you tried any of those?  Even here at home on DC, I'm pretty sure there are a few posted recipes for various mixes.

Try - *Recipes & Ingredients* then go to *Sauces, Marinades, Rubs*  Even if you don't find the exact one, it is _yummy reading_!


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## SeanCan'tCook (Jun 12, 2021)

dragnlaw said:


> *SeanCan'tCook*,  *I'm puzzled as to why you were using so much spice to begin with.  *With most of those mixed spices I would only sprinkle on top and bottom of the meat.  Has always been plenty and in my mind that is the way they were intended to be used.
> 
> There are many blended spices out there,  you just have to find the ones you like best.  Unfortunately they are usually on the expensive side and in large jars.  This ends up crowding your cupboard and wasting you money if you don't like it.
> 
> ...




McCormick's website recommended it for the Montreal chicken seasoning, so I figured it would be the same for the Montreal steak seasoning.

I'll just keep cutting the amount down until I find the sweet spot.

A couple of months ago I found an article where they interviewed one of Col. Sanders descendants and found a photo with the 11 secret herbs and spices on it.  I tried that, but the results weren't that great.

I really like the ease and simplicity of just using the pre-mixed Montreal steak seasoning.  Remember, I'm a terrible cook and don't enjoy it ... the cleanup more than the cooking.  lol.  I'm looking for the easiest, laziest solutions possible.


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## bakechef (Jun 12, 2021)

SeanCan'tCook said:


> McCormick's website recommended it for the Montreal chicken seasoning, so I figured it would be the same for the Montreal steak seasoning.
> 
> I'll just keep cutting the amount down until I find the sweet spot.
> 
> ...


Yup, learning how to season and not overcook is the game changer! Sounds like you are on your way. There are so many spice mixtures to try that should give you a ton of variety.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jun 13, 2021)

I have hone-created seasoning recipes for seasoned flour that many people I've given them to really enjoy.  The herbs and spices can be combined, and put into a freezer bag, and frozen until needed for a recipe.  They can be sprinkled onto chickee, or pork directly, or added to flour for fried chicken.  By making a large batch, and freezing, the flavors remain fresh, and you take from the bag as much as you need, and freeze the rest for later use.  As long as you keep the herb, and spice ratios the same (multiply all measurements by two, fo example) you can make however much as you desire.  Here, actually, are two recipes, both created in 2009:

*Best fried chicken I've ever made:
*
I said I was going to test tonight.  Here are the results.

Test number 1:
I'm tasting this as I'm typing.  The chicken is fresh out of the oven, and I have paper towel in hands between tasting and typing.  Before I start, I made two batches of chicken, using two, slightly different techniques, cooked one right after the other.  I will give the recipes after I taste these and give you the critique.


Recipe 1 -* Chief's Savory Chicken:*
This recipe has significant thought put into the seasonings.  So here goes.  How do I describe this one?  It is soooo good, but dramatically different than the 2nd recipe given here.  The coating doesn't have that mild crunch like the first one does, but isn't sloppy or gooey either.  It's a proper, crispy coating.  The flavor is intense.  If your after great chicken meat flavor, then opt for the recipe nuberv2.  If you want intense, great flavor, opt for recipe number one.  I can't really decide which one I like better.  The first recipe is bold and literally takes over your senses.  It is a spicy, but not pepper hot.  The flavor is well balanced, and is what you think of when you think chicken while watching the Superbowl.  I would say that it would rival hot wings for popularity as a snacking food.  But you'd better have something to wash it down.  This is competition worthy fried chicken.  I would put this up against anybody.  Good thing this isn't a competition.

Recipe number 2 - *Chief's Delicately Fried Chicken*: Oh wow.  The coating is very light, slightly crispy, and the chicken is hot, almost to hot to handle.  But it is possibly the most tender chicken I have ever made.  The flavor is mildly savory, with a hint of sweet undertones, and just enough pepper to warm your mouth, almost without being able to be detected.  But it does enhance the flavor.  The coating doesn't hide the chicken meat flavor, but rather, compliments it.  I really like this batch.  This one is a keeper.  Wait, I need another bite.  I'm not kidding.  This is the most tender chicken I have ever eaten, let alone made.  And it's just grocery store chicken, pre-cut and packaged.  It's very moist, without being sloppy, and my hands aren't coming away greasy.  The after taste is mild, but lingers.  It's pleasant.  This is good chicken!  Delicate but wonderful flavor.

Ok. so here are the recipes.

Recipe 1:  *Chief's Savory Chicken*
Preheat the oven to 375' F.
In a bowl, combine the following with a wire whisk.
1/2 cup all-purpose flour
1 1/2 tsp. kosher salt
1/2 tsp. granulated garlic powder
1/8 tsp. powdered ginger
1/2 tsp. marjoram
1/4 tsp. rubbed sage
1/4 tsp. ground thyme
1/2 tsp. black pepper
1/4 tsp. turmeric
1/8 tsp. red pepper
1 dash Chinese 5-spice powder
1/8 tsp. celery seed
1/4 tsp. granulated onion powder
In a separate bowl, make an egg-wash from 1 large egg whisked with 1/4 cup water.

Preheat 2 inches of oil in a frying pan until fragrant.  Turn heat to medium flame.

Dry chicken pieces with  paper towels.  Dredge in seasoned flour.  Dip in the egg-wash, letting them sit until the flor coating is hydrated,  and then again in the seasoned flour.  Shake excess coating from the chicken and place onto a cooling rack for five minutes.  This will make the coating adhere to yhe chicke.  Place the chicke, three to four pices at a time, depending on pan size, into a havy frying pan filled with 3 inches of hot oil.  Oil temp. Should be 350’F.  Don't crown the pan.  Fry on each side for 4 minutes per side.  Ceck with an instant read thermometer,  The chicken meat needs to be 165’ F.. Serve immediately, hot and fresh.

Recipe Number 2:  *Chief’s Gently Fried Chicken,*  So good!
Preheat oven to 375' F.
Again, whisk the following ingredients into a bowl:
1/2 cup flour
1/4 cup uncooked farina (cream of wheat)
1 1/2 tsp. Kosher salt
1/2 tsp black pepper
1/2 tsp granulated garlic
1/8 tsp. cinnamon
1/8 tsp. red pepper
1/8 tsp. ground cumin
Egg-wash
Follow the same coating technique as in recipe number 1.  Fry chicken in 350’ oil for two minutes per side.  Remove to a foil-lined baking sheet.  Place into you oven for 25 minutes,  Remove and serve.


Ok.  So while the second recipe is a delicate delight, the first is a celebration for your taste buds.  Neither is your grandma's fried chicken.  This is pure Chief Longwind stuff.  I hate to sound so full of myself, but after these two successes, I really can't help myself.  I hope you try 'em.  If you don't, you'll be cheating yourself.  You can tell your family that you created them if you want.  I don't care.   Can I have some more?  

Oh, and both are made to go with some great sides, like sweet or mashed potatoes, and a good salad to help resuscitate your taste buds.  Enjoy.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## dragnlaw (Jun 13, 2021)

Dear Chef Chief!  I love your recipes!  

and you can be as full of yourself as you'd like, best thing in the world is pride in yourself.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jun 13, 2021)

dragnlaw said:


> Dear Chef Chief!  I love your recipes!
> 
> and you can be as full of yourself as you'd like, best thing in the world is pride in yourself.



Those successes were important, as they gave me confidence.  However, after all is said and done, I, just like everyone, owe my cooking success on cooking wisdom learned from other great cooks before me.  I just built upon that knowledge, sometimes with great results, sometimes finding that a new idea percolating in my head wasn't such a good thing.  I share what worked, so as too give something good to others.  I hope I don't still sound  full of myself.  My intent is not to stand on a pedestal, yelling to the world - Look at me!  It is to share what I have learned, to maybe make someone's life a little more enjoyable.

My greatest moment in cooking - Chili Cook-off.  I had made two entries of red chili, one that was well flavored, and mild, and one that was very, very hot.  A mother pushed her son to my booth.  He was in a wheelchair, his life made difficult by cerebral palsy.  She said that she'd heard from others that 
I had the hottest chili at the cook-off, and that her son loved spicy foods.  She asked if I could fill a container full of the hot chili for him.  I warned her that it was very hot, and literally had sent some away in pain.  She said that it sounded perfect.  I filled a container for him.  He ate a spoon-full.  His face lit up with a big smile that said without words, I have just hit the jackpot of chili.  

It made me feel so good to have given this young man, so challenged in his life, something that made it just a little better.  That's what motivates me to share my recipes, and cooking knowledge, the chance to make life just a little better for all the people I can.

When I put in a post that no one looks at, I feel disappointed, because,  somehow, I missed the mark.  I can't help feeling this way.  It's just part of my personality, good, or bad.

I love making friends, and despise those who revel in making life difficult for others, bullies, the power hungry, greedy, etc.

Well, this isn't a post about me.  At least it's not supposed to be.  I'm easily sidetracked; and I like to communicate too much.  Yeh, I'm that crazy guy at the supermarket, teaching perfect strangers how to pick the perfectly ripe watermelon, or cut of beef, or best cheese.  I tell jokes to the cashiers, as long as there is no one behind ne,  I make the nursing staff laugh at hospitals.  i used to volunteer to help my neighbors shovel snow from their roofs, just because.  I get the feeling that I an in good company, here on DC.  There are many here like me, who just want to make life better, not just for themselves, but for everyone.

Dragon, you make my life better with your comments.  Thanks.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## taxlady (Jun 13, 2021)

Those recipes both look good, Chief.

Two questions:
1) How much chicken does that coat?
2) Is that a typo on the first recipe, the part about preheating the oven?


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jun 13, 2021)

taxlady said:


> Those recipes both look good, Chief.
> 
> Two questions:
> 1) How much chicken does that coat?
> 2) Is that a typo on the first recipe, the part about preheating the oven?



That is a typo.

And the recipe will make enough chicken for two people, or four pieces of chicken.  Just multiply to make more.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## kb0000 (Jun 13, 2021)

*TO: Terrible cook with health problems. I want to get away from eating out every meal*

A little animal fat and more olive oil are good for you.  Lowest fat meat:  Bison steak ~2% fat.   Do not use ground Bison, it has fat added to make it as bad as hamburger.

Free range grass fed (no grain)  meats are very low fat.  Some difference it taste, an improvement for chicken
93/7% ground beef.

Fish, sea food,  never breaded

Raw, baked, boiled fruits and veggies.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jun 13, 2021)

kb0000 said:


> A little animal fat and more olive oil are good for you.  Lowest fat meat:  Bison steak ~2% fat.   Do not use ground Bison, it has fat added to make it as bad as hamburger.
> 
> Free range grass fed (no grain)  meats are very low fat.  Some difference it taste, an improvement for chicken
> 93/7% ground beef.
> ...



Depending on where you live, more fat can be required,  If you live in the climate I originate from, and spend a lot of time outdoors, that fat being metabolized is necessary to keep you arm.  
It's also a good source of energy, and transports fat soluble nutrients to the body.  In warmer climates, fat consumption should be reduced.

People who tried to live off of the land, and only ate rabbit, grouse, and very lean meat ran into issues trying to stay warm.  Many Northern cultures have fatty, rich meals to help against the cold.

Nutrition is a complex subject.  People have differing needs based on activity level, climate, genetics, etc.  What is healthy for me may not be for you, and vice-versa.  For instance, I am on a renal diet.  Beans, and other legumes are powerhouse foods for most people, I can't eat the, as my body doesn't process Potassium, or phosphorous well, and beans are very high in phosphorous.  Many of the so-called super foods are off limits, due to high potassium, or phosphorus.  

Urate crystal accumulation in joints causes gout.  Urate forms from uric acid.  As purines are metabolized, they form uric acid,  Purines can be found in -  red meat and organ meats, such as liver. Purine-rich seafood includes anchovies, sardines, mussels, scallops, trout and tuna. Alcoholic beverages, especially beer, and drinks sweetened with fruit sugar (fructose) promote higher levels of uric acid.  There are a great many food fads that come and go.  Even among nutritionists, there is a great deal of conjecture, and argument about what is generally best.  Try looking at cow's milk.  Some studies state that full-fat milk aids weight loss, and overall health.  Other studies say that skim. or low fat milk is better for you.  Then there are the nutritionist who say that we shouldn't' be drinking milk at all.
  It may be best for you.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North
You can't just throw out a statement telling that grass-fed, 93/7 grinf is the best, healthiest beef.

My Grandfather ate well marbled beef, and por, and drank whole milk that wasn't homogenized.  He lived to 89 years.  He was a very active man.  

In general, a Mediterranean diet is considered better for you.  That is not always the case,

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## taxlady (Jun 13, 2021)

Well said Chief.


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## kb0000 (Jun 13, 2021)

*too much salt*

Re #1 post
Montreal Steak gave your 2 chicken pieces  108% of the daily recommended dose of salt


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## SeanCan'tCook (Jun 13, 2021)

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> I have hone-created seasoning recipes for seasoned flour that many people I've given them to really enjoy.  The herbs and spices can be combined, and put into a freezer bag, and frozen until needed for a recipe.  They can be sprinkled onto chickee, or pork directly, or added to flour for fried chicken.  By making a large batch, and freezing, the flavors remain fresh, and you take from the bag as much as you need, and freeze the rest for later use.  As long as you keep the herb, and spice ratios the same (multiply all measurements by two, fo example) you can make however much as you desire.  Here, actually, are two recipes, both created in 2009:
> 
> *Best fried chicken I've ever made:
> *
> ...




Thank you so much for taking so much of your time to help me.  That was very kind of you.


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## SeanCan'tCook (Jun 13, 2021)

kb0000 said:


> Re #1 post
> Montreal Steak gave your 2 chicken pieces  108% of the daily recommended dose of salt



It was 6 pieces, and I'm cutting it back each time I make it.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jun 13, 2021)

SeanCan'tCook, check your private messages

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North.


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## kb0000 (Jun 14, 2021)

Sean

As you cut back Montreal Steak to cut back salt,  you also cut back on the  other flavorings.  It might be worth a goggle to look for  ‘make your own Montreal Steak’.  Then you can leave out the salt and get all the other flavors.  
BTW:  Years ago, I was told I had high blood pressure, so I stopped using salt.   Today, I use a lot of Montreal Steak.  My doctor ordered me to eat more salt,  lots of salt, because now I have abnormally low blood sodium levels which  leads to bad things.


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## kb0000 (Jun 14, 2021)

Sean,
You say  “I want to get away from eating out every meal “  Doing your own cooking is not enough.  You have to do it right.   Most stuff sold in a grocery store  is loaded with fat, sugar, and  salt.  Limit your shopping to the meat & fish counters,  herbs and spices,  grains, canola and Olive oils,  and fresh produce.    

Basically, don’t  eat anything modified by human hands.  Avoid starches.  Starches turn into sugar when eaten   (limit potatoes-- lots of good stuff, but lots of starch).  Bread & pasta are a problem.  They are starches, but pasta has a moderate glycemic index score,  which in good.  If you must eat bread, whole wheat is best.  Always check and compare sugars (bad)  and fiber (good) on the detailed label.    

Get the cookbook “I Know How to Cook”  even if you don’t.  This is basic home French cooking, the best food in the world.  If you don’t know what a term means,  goggle it.  

As you move away from high fat,  high salt, high sugar foods, you will me disappointed with the lack of flavored of your new foods.  This will go away over time, as your brain adjusts to a new world.  You can initially compensate by using lots of herbs and spices.  

Include booze in your seasonings--  red & white  wine, Marsala, sherry, port,  brandy.


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## SeanCan'tCook (Jun 15, 2021)

kb0000 said:


> Sean
> 
> As you cut back Montreal Steak to cut back salt,  you also cut back on the  other flavorings.  It might be worth a goggle to look for  ‘make your own Montreal Steak’.  Then you can leave out the salt and get all the other flavors.
> BTW:  Years ago, I was told I had high blood pressure, so I stopped using salt.   Today, I use a lot of Montreal Steak.  My doctor ordered me to eat more salt,  lots of salt, because now I have abnormally low blood sodium levels which  leads to bad things.



So McCormick's make a 25%-less sodium Montreal steak seasoning.  I ordered some tonight.  I want to get the amounts right with the high-test version before I try the other, though.

https://www.mccormick.com/grill-mat...mates-25-less-sodium-montreal-steak-seasoning


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## CharlieD (Jun 15, 2021)

Question i have is about the oven. It seems to me that at 425 deg chicken was supposed to be done way sooner than 40 minutes. I cook mine at 375, and my oven is about 5 deg less than what it set up at, and at 40 minutes chicken breast is over cooked.


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## SeanCan'tCook (Jun 15, 2021)

CharlieD said:


> Question i have is about the oven. It seems to me that at 425 deg chicken was supposed to be done way sooner than 40 minutes. I cook mine at 375, and my oven is about 5 deg less than what it set up at, and at 40 minutes chicken breast is over cooked.



I thought so too, but I'm using a ThermoPop thermometer, taking it out at 160, and it's not dry ... it's tender and juicy.


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## CharlieD (Jun 15, 2021)

SeanCan'tCook said:


> I thought so too, but I'm using a ThermoPop thermometer, taking it out at 160, and it's not dry ... it's tender and juicy.



No, no, I was not talking about chicken. I was talking about temperature of the oven. Have you checked it, ever?


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## kb0000 (Jun 16, 2021)

CharlieD said:


> No, no, I was not talking about chicken. I was talking about temperature of the oven. Have you checked it, ever?



Oven temp  pretty much does not matter.  Internal temp is the only way to be sure its done right.


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## GotGarlic (Jun 17, 2021)

kb0000 said:


> Oven temp  pretty much does not matter.  Internal temp is the only way to be sure its done right.


It's still a good idea to check whether the oven is getting up to the temperature he set. It makes it much easier to estimate how long something will take to cook, and he might want to bake sometime; that requires more precise temperatures. Learning how to put together a meal requires more than just getting one item done.


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## CharlieD (Jun 17, 2021)

kb0000 said:


> Oven temp  pretty much does not matter.  Internal temp is the only way to be sure its done right.



It matters, because you need to know what temperature you are cooking at. My oven cooks 5 deg lower than it supposed. At 375, which is 360, my chicken is done in 30 minutes, maybe 35. If you are cooking at 425, your oven definitely not cooking at the right temperature. And then how do you know how long to cook all the other recipes?


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## kb0000 (Jun 18, 2021)

CharlieD said:


> It matters, because you need to know what temperature you are cooking at. My oven cooks 5 deg lower than it supposed. At 375, which is 360, my chicken is done in 30 minutes, maybe 35. If you are cooking at 425, your oven definitely not cooking at the right temperature. And then how do you know how long to cook all the other recipes?



My favorite way to cook chicken is to use the high temp broiler. It takes 22-24 minutes. I know that because I  go by meat temp, not oven temp, but I check the cooking time when the meat temp is right so I don't have to check meat temp  so often.  I can  wait 20 minutes to start checking meat temp. 

A cook book,  I think the title is “Roasts”, by a famous cookbook author, uses a 500 degree oven for chicken.

You do not need to know what temperature you are cooking at. You need to know when the meat reaches the temp that shows  it is done.


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## kb0000 (Jun 18, 2021)

CharlieD said:


> No, no, I was not talking about chicken. I was talking about temperature of the oven. Have you checked it, ever?



Sean is doing it right.


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## taxlady (Jun 18, 2021)

While I agree in general that the meat temperature is more important than the oven temperature, oven temperature matters. If it is too hot for a piece of meat, you might overcook the outside before the inside is done.


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## GotGarlic (Jun 18, 2021)

kb0000 said:


> My favorite way to cook chicken is to use the high temp broiler... It takes 22-24 minutes. I know that because I  go by meat temp, not oven temp, but I check the cooking time when the meat temp is right so I don't have to check meat temp  so often.  I can  wait 20 minutes to start checking meat temp.


Broiling is not the same as baking or roasting. You have experience with your method, so that works for you. But someone just starting out with cooking should not be told that the temperature of the oven doesn't matter. It does. 



kb0000 said:


> A cook book,  I think the title is “Roasts”, by a famous cookbook author, uses a 500 degree oven for chicken.


And? If Sean wanted to use that method, wouldn't he need to be sure his oven could reach that temperature? 



kb0000 said:


> You do not need to know what temperature you are cooking at. You need to know when the meat reaches the temp that shows  it is done.


Again, when you want to make a meal, you need to be able to estimate how long it takes to cook something in the oven, so you can plan to finish everything at around the same time. You can't do that if you can't estimate how long it will take to cook something in the oven.


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## dragnlaw (Jun 18, 2021)

LOL -  I'm sure most experienced cooks know this by now, but for those of you who have not tried the "Roast at 500 degree" method... 

believe me !!  

unless you are a scrupulous cleaner of your oven - to the point of being fanatical - do NOT try this method.   

I repeat - do NOT try this method.

 and if your imagination doesn't work as to 'why' - then go ahead, try it, and let us know how it goes.


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## kb0000 (Jun 19, 2021)

dragnlaw said:


> LOL -  I'm sure most experienced cooks know this by now, but for those of you who have not tried the "Roast at 500 degree" method...
> 
> believe me !!
> 
> ...




Also, if you try it, open all the windows and disable your smoke alarms.  Still, some say do  it.


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## kb0000 (Jun 19, 2021)

GotGarlic said:


> Broiling is not the same as baking or roasting. .




Got Garrick.  

I didn’t say I was broiling chicken.   I said I was baking it using the broiler. This comes from  Cooks Illustrated.  See them for the details on how to do it.


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## jennyema (Jun 19, 2021)

kb0000 said:


> A cook book,  I think the title is “Roasts”, by a famous cookbook author, uses a 500 degree oven for chicken.
> 
> .



The cookbook you refer to is “Roasting” by Barbara Kafka.  An all time classic.  Her high heat roasted chicken (recipe below) is one of my favorite ways to cook chicken.  Slice up some russet potatoes thinly and cover the bottom of the roasting pan so it doesn’t smoke so much.

https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/member/views/simplest-roast-chicken-by-barbara-kafka-51794401


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## jennyema (Jun 19, 2021)

dragnlaw said:


> LOL -  I'm sure most experienced cooks know this by now, but for those of you who have not tried the "Roast at 500 degree" method...
> 
> believe me !!
> 
> ...




Please do try it.  It’s incredible.  I roast chicken at 475-500 often in the winter when I don’t use my Egg.

And not nearly as “dirty” as you suggest.  It’s smoky, for sure but it’s never really messed up my oven.

If you line the roasting pan with sliced potatoes, the smoke is greatly dissipated.


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## jennyema (Jun 19, 2021)

kb0000 said:


> You do not need to know what temperature you are cooking at. You need to know when the meat reaches the temp that shows  it is done.




That could not be more wrong.  

Although you are right about internal temp, the temperature that you are cooking at determines taste, texture, moistness, etc. in proteins.  Would you cook a pork tenderloin at 225?  A brisket at 425?

And of course oven temp is crucial when baking.


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## CharlieD (Jun 20, 2021)

jennyema said:


> Please do try it.  It’s incredible.  I roast chicken at 475-500 often in the winter when I don’t use my Egg.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Where do you get 5-6 pounds chicken? All I see in any store 3-3.5 pounds max.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jun 20, 2021)

For perfect, very juicy, lightly crispy fried chicken:
Add seasonings to AP flour.  Dry chicken pieces with a paper towel.  Place seasoned flour on a sheet of waxed paper, or in a brown paper bag.  Place chikem pieces with the seasoned flour, coat by shaking the bag, or flipping the flour over the chicken pieces.  Shake execc flor from the pieces and fry in 3 inches of 350' F.  cooking oil until it just starts to brown.  Remove to a foil lined cookie sheet.  Place in 360' oven and bake for 25 minutes.  Remove and serve.  The chicken will have a light, crunchy coating, and will be so juicy that it will squirt you as you bite into it.  Season with a little S&P if required when it first comes out of the oven.

This method has gotten rave reviews from both family and friends. Dry-wet-dry might be the standard for fried chicken.  However, this method gives a lighter, well flavored coating that allows all of the succulent chicken flavor to come through, and requires no egg wash, or double dipping of the chicken.

With this method, you can also bake the chicken in a covered charcoal, or gas grill, maybe with a little smoke.  That way, you have fried chicken with grilled flavor added.

Hive it a try.  You won't be disappointed.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## kb0000 (Jun 21, 2021)

jennyema said:


> That could not be more wrong.
> 
> Although you are right about internal temp, the temperature that you are cooking at determines taste, texture, moistness, etc. in proteins.  Would you cook a pork tenderloin at 225?  A brisket at 425?
> 
> And of course oven temp is crucial when baking.


Yes, temp is important in baked goods, but this discussion is about chicken.


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## kb0000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> For perfect, very juicy, lightly crispy fried chicken:
> Add seasonings to AP flour.  Dry chicken pieces with a paper towel.  Place seasoned flour on a sheet of waxed paper, or in a brown paper bag.  Place chikem pieces with the seasoned flour, coat by shaking the bag, or flipping the flour over the chicken pieces.  Shake execc flor from the pieces and fry in 3 inches of 350' F.  cooking oil until it just starts to brown.  Remove to a foil lined cookie sheet.  Place in 360' oven and bake for 25 minutes.  Remove and serve.  The chicken will have a light, crunchy coating, and will be so juicy that it will squirt you as you bite into it.  Season with a little S&P if required when it first comes out of the oven.
> 
> This method has gotten rave reviews from both family and friends. Dry-wet-dry might be the standard for fried chicken.  However, this method gives a lighter, well flavored coating that allows all of the succulent chicken flavor to come through, and requires no egg wash, or double dipping of the chicken.
> ...


The point of browning meat is to create carmalization on the surface of the meat & on the bottom of the pan  which improves the taste of the meat and of any pan sauce or gravy (they are not the same).   If you flour the meat, you will get a fake browned surface without the flavor benefits of true browning.  Best way to cook chicken:  brine it, then use the  Cooks Illustrated method of using the broiler to bake  which produces a skin as crisp as a potato chip. 

Another example:  pan seared  browned scallops do not need flour if you do it right.


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## jennyema (Jun 22, 2021)

CharlieD said:


> Where do you get 5-6 pounds chicken? All I see in any store 3-3.5 pounds max.



I can find them in my supermarket but i never buy them.  Bigger chickens are often tough and rubbery.  I try to get a 3 pounder, max.


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## CharlieD (Jun 23, 2021)

jennyema said:


> I can find them in my supermarket but i never buy them.  Bigger chickens are often tough and rubbery.  I try to get a 3 pounder, max.



But they make the best chicken soup.


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## dragnlaw (Jun 23, 2021)

jennyema said:


> I can find them in my supermarket but i never buy them.  Bigger chickens are often tough and rubbery.  I try to get a 3 pounder, max.





CharlieD said:


> But they make the best chicken soup.



6 lbs -  yum....   low and slow and baste, baste, baste - works for me, but then again, they were my own chickens.  

In a store they "probably" should be capons, which, if yes, should still be tender and juicy.


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