# Bread size problem



## Flic (Oct 24, 2006)

I'm baking some bread, I was hoping to use it to make sandwiches but the height of my loaves seems to be severly lacking.

Is there any way to get the dough to rise so that i get a decent size slice rather than diddy ones?


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## jennyema (Oct 24, 2006)

Make sure your loaf pan is the correct size for the recipe you are using.

Make sure your yeast is fresh and that your water is approx. 110 degrees F when you dissolve it.


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## ChefJune (Oct 24, 2006)

Yes.  You have to allow more time.  Just because a recipe says to rise the dough "about 1 hour"  does't mean that's all the time it needs!  The dough needs to double in bulk on the first rise.  and nearly double in bulk the second.

It just takes practice, because the only way to know is to eyeball it.  there is no measurement to take.  The more often you make bread, the surer you will be of the different stages of its development.


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## ChefJune (Oct 24, 2006)

You also have to knead the dough enough.  the well-kneaded dough will resemble a baby's bottom in texture.


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## Chef_Jen (Oct 24, 2006)

Howdy flic... where you have been the humidex has been whacky that does make a difference with bread. it will take longer in rising. also is your yeast old?

post your recipe ill take a look at it 

Cheers J


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## Gretchen (Oct 25, 2006)

You just have to get it to rise to the extent it should. Time is not the measure--doubling of dough volume is. 
Try to keep it away from drafts and keep the loaves covered with a towel so they will stay warmer.
If your dough just will not rise then check your yeast activity.  Some additions to dough--eggs in particular--slow the rising times.  Heavy doughs with  a lot of grain flour in them will rise slower.  Flour with vital gluten added will rise better.


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## Half Baked (Oct 25, 2006)

Flic, don't toss the loaves.  You can have smaller sandwiches with a denser bread.  I reminds me of the sandwiches we ate in Germany.


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## expatgirl (Oct 25, 2006)

Flic, 

In addition to the great ideas presented you might want to make sure that you used fresh yeast like Chef Jen suggested and  a good way to test for that is to make a yeast "sponge"----take 1/4 cup of the water that will be used in the recipe, add 1 tsp of sugar and the yeast, stir gently, and let set in a warm spot for about 10-15 minutes.  It should be all foamy and bubbly if your yeast is fresh---just add that to the flour and the rest of the ingredients.  I especially do this when the package says the yeast is expired or it's ready to expire.  Good luck to future towering loaves of bread!


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## Flic (Oct 25, 2006)

thanks everyone for the suggestions.

I'm using fast acting dried yeast with an expiry of march 2007
Have left the next batch to rise & will be using the "eyeballing" technique.

Will let you know how I get on.

Thanks again


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## goboenomo (Oct 25, 2006)

Use more leavening agents. :P


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## Flic (Oct 25, 2006)

I waited til the dough had doubled in size & was well above the top of the tins but once in the oven they seem to have fallen down so that the cooked bread is only the height the tin

Am I doing something wrong or is this something I should expect?


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## XeniA (Oct 25, 2006)

Flic, I've been battling one particular type of bread for the last year (fine, I only bake in the winter, so we're not really talking 12 months here!) and I'd propose that your "why didn't it rise enough?" is a million-dollar question!  Breads can be tricky. All of the factors that have been mentioned thus far are important, but getting it right can be a true skill and an art. If your dough had risen very high then fallen in the oven, it may have been permitted to rise TOO much, which will actually weaken the structure ...  Complicated! I recommend the Paula Figoni book "How Baking Works" to get a truly thorough understanding of all the elements and how they interact.  Good luck in the meantime!


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## skilletlicker (Oct 25, 2006)

Flic said:
			
		

> I waited til the dough had doubled in size & was well above the top of the tins but once in the oven they seem to have fallen down so that the cooked bread is only the height the tin
> 
> Am I doing something wrong or is this something I should expect?


The dough should not collapse in the oven.
When my bread does that it is usually because the dough was over-proofed (allowed to rise too long on the second rise).  I don't think you can necessarily depend on "doubling" for the second rise.  They say you can tell by pressing two fingers about 1/2" into the dough and if the indentation quickly disappears it needs to rise longer.  I haven't seen this in the literature but I assume that if the dent doesn't recover at all it may have risen too much.
If the dough hasn't fully doubled in the secondary fermentation or rise you should expect to get a little more rise in the first minutes of baking.  This is called oven spring or oven kick.  If the dough has risen too much beforehand it will tend to collapse on itself either in the oven or when you try to score it.
I don't think I'm contradicting the advice given earlier.  On the first rise the dough should fully double and allowing it to go a little longer doesn't hurt anything.


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## sugarbrown (Oct 25, 2006)

Flic said:
			
		

> I'm using fast acting dried yeast with an expiry of march 2007


 You'll do just fine! And Jan's right...don't throw the smaller loaves out!! You can also chop them up and use them in stuffing!

I once used too hot of water with my yeast, and killed it! Now _that_ bread was disgusting!


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## subfuscpersona (Oct 26, 2006)

Flic said:
			
		

> I waited til the dough had doubled in size & was well above the top of the tins but once in the oven they seem to have fallen down so that the cooked bread is only the height the tin
> 
> Am I doing something wrong or is this something I should expect?



No, you shouldn't expect this. Possible causes...

> you used all-purpose flour instead of bread flour - as a general rule of thumb, if you're making white sandwich bread, bread flour is more suitable than all-purpose flour

> the dough could have been insufficiently kneaded before the first rising

> the dough has too much flour in proportion to water (it feels "dry" or "heavy")

> as others said, you let the dough rise too long in the pan

==============

without knowing the recipe it is hard to diagnose further. Bread doughs  with mostly bread flour should rise some more when baked in a *preheated* 350F oven.

================
re your yeast...

I notice you said "I'm using fast acting dried yeast with an expiry of march 2007" - is this yeast *active dry* yeast or *instant dry* yeast? Ppl are assuming you're using active dry yeast, which must be dissolved in water prior to use. Instant yeast, in contrast, should be added to the dry ingredients (it won't work as well if dissolved in water since it is not processed to be used that way). In addition, there are certain brands of "fast acting" yeast that are designed to produce a quick rise but wimp out if the rise is extended over a longer period. What was the actual brand and type of yeast you used?


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## boufa06 (Oct 26, 2006)

Flic, breadmaking is sometimes a hit and miss thing and a bit of luck too!  I use dry yeast in all my bread making.  In most cases, they came out alright unless it's a lousy bread recipe.  Those days when I had to bake breads for my own restaurant I was having problems with the texture of the breads that I was making so I had a good talk with the flour mill representative who proceeded to explain the different types and brand of flour in household and commercial packing for both breads, noodles and cakes.  All in all there were 18 types of flour for commercial establishments in 25kg bags!!  At the end of the discussion I was more confused than ever. I was given some samples to try which turned out unsatisfactory.  In the end I decided to just stick to all purpose (plain) flour which worked out very well for me as I prefer my bread to have soft and spongy texture.

So coming back to your bread rising problem, perhaps you might want to try plain flour using dry yeast.  Mix your yeast with some sugar and finger hot (warm) water and let the mixture become frothy.  Then add to your flour mixture.  Let it rise in a warm place till double the size.  Punch it down and let it rise a second time.  Bake in a preheated oven at 200 degrees C for about an hour.


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## flukx (Oct 26, 2006)

Also, dont forget that after the first rise, you should "punch" the dough down a bit and let it rise again for a little while before putting it into a well-preheated oven. "punching" the dough down after the rise distributes the gas and gives the yeast more starch to feed on, which is necessary for keeping yeast alive long enough to release more gas which causes the rise.


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## Michael in FtW (Oct 26, 2006)

It could be caused by several things:

1) Yeast: dead, not properly proofed, not the type called for in the recipe, or insufficient amount.

2) Dough: not properly kneaded, not *properly* proofed (proofing until it collapses is not proper proofing - it's *over* proofing which will result in a flat loaf), insufficient moisture.

3) Pan Size: using the wrong size pan for the amound of dough.

4) Temp: wrong oven temperature (too low)

What was your recipe and what did you do that deviated from it?

Of course - that is assuming that you are using a yeast levened dough. A "quick bread" that is levened by chemicals (baking powder/baking soda) is going to be different (like Irish Soda Bread).


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## Gretchen (Oct 30, 2006)

Flic said:
			
		

> I waited til the dough had doubled in size & was well above the top of the tins but once in the oven they seem to have fallen down so that the cooked bread is only the height the tin
> Am I doing something wrong or is this something I should expect?


 
As Skilletlicker said, this is too much of a rise. If you let it rise too much for the amount of yeast/dough structure to hold during the baking process, it will collapse.  And depending on the dough type and the amount of sugar and yeast activity, breads have what is called "oven spring".  The dough has risen perhaps to the level of the top of the pan. Then when it hits the oven, it rises a bit more.
Make the dough, let it rise until doubled. Being able to poke two fingers into the dough and it hold that print is a good sign.  Punch it down and fold it over a few times to get the air out. Shape your loaves (unless it calls for a second bowl rising) and put them in greased pans. They should not be over half of the size of the pans you are using.  Cover with a towel and put in a draft free place. Let rise to approximately double and bake.


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## DinaFine (Nov 1, 2006)

Half Baked said:
			
		

> Flic, don't toss the loaves. You can have smaller sandwiches with a denser bread. I reminds me of the sandwiches we ate in Germany.
> 
> Cut the entire loaf in half and then turn one half on its end and slice thin.  Works well for dense breads. Just like those westphalian breads you can buy ]


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## DinaFine (Nov 1, 2006)

Flic said:
			
		

> I waited til the dough had doubled in size & was well above the top of the tins but once in the oven they seem to have fallen down so that the cooked bread is only the height the tin
> 
> Am I doing something wrong or is this something I should expect?
> 
> sounds to me like it was overproofed which means left to rise too long.  If you poke it a little and it doesnt spring back at all and even deflates a little, you have to take it out of the pans, re knead and let it rise again.


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