# A little DC Wisdom....please!?!



## smoke king (Sep 14, 2008)

I've  got a problem-dilemma is probably a better word.

We have a family member who has fallen on hard times....again. I know that her problems are without a doubt self-inflicted, but once again, she needs "help" in the form of a place to stay, until she can get "back on her feet"

Normally, I wouldn't even give it a second thought-I was raised to believe that you don't turn your back on family. However, we've reached out to her before, and its always ended badly. Shes addicted to RX pain medication, and a few other illegal drugs as well. Her previous stays with us have always resulted in her stealing from us-and I mean multiple thousands of dollars. Shes been arrested, but always recieved a minor wrist slap and released with minimal reprecussion (this is the main reason I loathe liberal politics, but DC is not the time or place for that debate!!) So, in a nutshell, at 28 years of age, has really never had to be accountable for anything shes ever done.

This young lady is chemically (and alchohol) dependant, a master manipulator, and from what I can tell, has no conscience whatsoever. We have raised her child since he was 18 months old (he's now almost 8 years old) and everytime shes lived with us, her moving out was only a result of her being led away in handcuffs. She is an absolute train wreck of a person, and while help has been available to her she has always refused it-with extreme prejudice.

I realize that from the outside looking in, the answer is obvious to most, but no matter how I approach it, to me, she is family-and I've been raised to believe you don't turn your back on your family.

I'm driving myself crazy going back and forth on this one-my stomach hurts and I'm sure its got to be an ulcer. So I thought I'd turn to you all-I'm hoping a fresh perspective will help.

I'll thank everybody, in advance, for their thoughts, opinions and advice.


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## Barbara L (Sep 14, 2008)

This is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.

She is family, so of course you can't turn your back on her.  But this does not mean you should let her into your home.  You should not.  Take her to a motel and pay for a couple nights (it will be cheaper than what she would steal from you, and would be less stress).  Then, if you are able, drive her to Social Services.  They can help her.  If you cannot, because of work, etc., give her the addresses and phone numbers she needs to contact them.  They have the means to help her.  Do not enable her, and do not let her cause problems in the family.  Let her know that this is the last financial aid she will be getting from you.  She needs to know that you mean it.  She will continue to use you, and anyone else who allows it, as long as you let her.  

I will pray for you and her in this situation.  Let us know how things turn out.

Barbara


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## miniman (Sep 14, 2008)

I concur with Barbara, you have not been able to trust her in the past and there is no sign of change. Pay for somewhere for her to stay for a little while, keep encouraging her to seek help -. It is a "tough love" job. You also need to keep in mind what seeing her do this does to her child. You can be ther for her without having her in your house.

Will pray for you.


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## kadesma (Sep 14, 2008)

Family, friend, a person off the street, you can only do so much. You first and most important responsibility is your immediate family and that little  child your  parenting..The advice of the others needs to be heeded and  protecting your family comes first..You cannot help someone who is not asking for help..All you can do is offer some assistance  and  show them resourses for them to help themselves when they wake up and realize that is all there is, the get off your duff and help yourself..You have my prayers that things will work out for all of you..Just don't enable this person make her work for things.
kadesma


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## smoke king (Sep 14, 2008)

I am really and truly touched, by your responses, so from the bottom of my heart, I thank you. And the text of my original thread is just the tip of the iceberg.

The reason I didn't post all of her sordid behavior, is that its embarrasing to me. I feel like I've been made a fool of, and by virtue of the fact that shes gotten away with it in the past, I know that in her mind she feels she can do it again.

I hate to come off as "needy"-but if anyone would like to discuss this in depth, please PM me. I am always thrilled to hear from any of you, and I truly respect your opinions and advice


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## Michael in FtW (Sep 14, 2008)

Wow - been there, done that with my x-DW's Uncle, cousin and brother!

It sounds like she needs to be in a rehab program ... this will keep her off the streets and help her get her act together - without costing you any more. 

You may not be able to FORCE her into rehab - but if you refuse to let her into your home and make rehab the only other option other than living on the street ... 

It's hard to do ...


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## Adillo303 (Sep 14, 2008)

Smoke King - I have lived the nightmare that you describe. We had a family member who, with the exception fo the child you are raising, followed exactly the same track.

By taking them into your home you are enabling the behavior. simply stated, they continue doing it because it works. I stood in th eliving room and watch DW tell her son "I refuse to watch you kill yourself." You cannot help this person, they have to help themselves.

there are programs and a medication "Maltraxin" (SP) that can help them. they must go, they must work at it. They can succeed, but, they must want to. Also you have the 8 year old to consider. What is all of this doing to him? I know it is hard. there is more to our situation, as I am sure there is more to yours. In our case finally, ther treatment worked, because the person wanted it to and worked at it. This is the only way.

Hope this helps.

AC


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## jpmcgrew (Sep 14, 2008)

I agree do not let her into your home you already know what is going to happen, yet another replay on the past. I believe in helping family however I also believe that just because someone IS family does NOT mean you need to put up with all the problems they cause you and bail them out yet once again. Sometimes you just have to distance yourself from toxic relatives for good. If she turns down outside help it's because she doesn't want it. Why should she when family keeps enabling her? I doubt she appreciates your efforts to help anyway except to prey on you and yours to get what she wants/needs at the moment to only continue her lifestyle. The stealing alone would make me lock my door. If only for the sake of the little boy keep her away.  
Offer to give her info on places to go for help like Social Services etc and this may sound cruel but she can go live in a homeless shelter. It's called tough love. I strongly believe that just because someone is blood does not mean you are obligated to put up with or constantly bail them out of another mess they created. Just as I believe no one should continue to take any abuse in any form from a family member just because they are related to you. You cannot help those who wont help themselves.


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## GhettoRacingKid (Sep 14, 2008)

I havent had to really deal with problems like this but both extended sides of my family cause problems.

Its a tough situation becuase you want to help becuase you are a good person but at some point she needs to realize that she needs help.

What about saying you will help her but she has to go to rehab for the 30 days and then take care of her obligations while she is gone and then take it one step at a time after that.

good luck


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## B'sgirl (Sep 14, 2008)

These people have good advice. You are not turning your back on her by not letting her stay with her. Enabling her to continue in bad habits is not helping her at all. Giving her tools to overcome her problems would be the kind thing to do, even if it seems harsh and she doesn't agree with you that it's the best thing.


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## JoeV (Sep 14, 2008)

I cannot offer anything that has not already been said, except to say I'll pray for a positive outcome to your situation. My hat's off to you for raising her child. That's not easy for the kid or the surrogate parents. Sadly, this is too prevalent in our society today.

Joe


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## mikki (Sep 14, 2008)

SK- I agree with all of the advice given,You cannot help someone who won't help themselves, set boundries- what you will and will not do to help her then stick to them. It will be hard, but better for everyone if you do this. My BIL although not involved in the drugs had many runins with the law, his mom and sister bailed him out to the point that they had no money to work with. My hubby and I told him exactly what we would do. Offered him a place to stay , but he was to have a job in a certian amount of time, only certian friends were allowed at our house, and he was not to be comming in at all hours of the night due to we had small children. If any of this happened he would be out that day. Long story short he lived with us about a month and stayed out of trouble,moved back to his moms where their boundries and ended up going to jail for almost 2 years. 10 years later he actuall thanked us for setting boundries. Tough love is hard, but sometimes it's the only way!


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## Constance (Sep 14, 2008)

Unfortunately, I know all too much about this subject. I've had two children who became addicted to assorted drugs, including prescription painkillers and meth. 
First of all, bless your heart for raising the child. 

In regard to helping your family member...ANYTHING you do for her is just enabling her habit. There comes a time for hard love, and this is it. When she's down and out and on the street, it is then that she will either change her life or die. It all depends on what she is made of, and there is nothing you can do about that. 
Believe me, I know how hard it is to imagine your loved one walking the streets, cold and hungry, but you have to be strong about this.


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## jabbur (Sep 14, 2008)

You have gotten some good advice here.  There is not much I can add to what has already been said.  It is never easy to deal with family members in situations like this. I hope you can find peace in whatever decision you make.


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## quicksilver (Sep 14, 2008)

Bless you, Smoke King, for taking care of her child. No one, not God, could ask more of you. Don't enable her, as others have said. 
I worked across the street from a St. Mathew's House shelter and learned that even they have rules. They make residents have a check in and check out time. The residents have to pay a minimum (a couple of dollars) to stay each night/day. And most important - they have to be CLEAN! For shelter, clothing, meals and human contact, that's not much to ask. But even they recognize rules are a must. And paying alittle, makes the person feel more responsible, worthy and not useless. Look into this shelter idea, let your family member know that this is where she should start. That's your helping hand reaching out for her welfare, and the welfare of your own family, the best way for all. Let the shelter direct her for other assistance. That's also a part of what they do. If not St. Mathews House, your area, I'm sure, has other like facilities.

Good luck and prayers to you and your family.


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## texasgirl (Sep 14, 2008)

I have no advise, as I have not been through this before. I would listen to the ones that have and know that it has got to be hard. I just want to offer my thoughts and prayers to you and your family.


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## jpmcgrew (Sep 14, 2008)

SK, I think deep down you know what to do you should feel no guilt about it as you have helped many times before. How does the rest of the family feel about it? All of you need to agree on it, as soon as she realizes no more help from family maybe then she will to change her life for the better.


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## Fisher's Mom (Sep 14, 2008)

Constance said:


> Unfortunately, I know all too much about this subject. I've had two children who became addicted to assorted drugs, including prescription painkillers and meth.
> First of all, bless your heart for raising the child.
> 
> In regard to helping your family member...ANYTHING you do for her is just enabling her habit. There comes a time for hard love, and this is it. When she's down and out and on the street, it is then that she will either change her life or die. It all depends on what she is made of, and there is nothing you can do about that.
> Believe me, I know how hard it is to imagine your loved one walking the streets, cold and hungry, but you have to be strong about this.


It's such a heartbreaking truth but Constance is absolutely right. Any assistance you give an addict enables them and ultimately, hastens their death. The idea of a loved one or family member being homeless or crashing in a crack house is devastating, I know. You are afraid they will die on the street. But I also know from personal experience that it will kill her in your house, too. Along with screwing up your entire family. You've had her live with you before so you know this is true.

If you've ever seen that show Intervention, you know the model. Lovingly tell her that you cannot live with or be a part of her addiction and that as long as she is not in a program, she will get nothing from you except your love and prayers for her to get clean. In the long run, it is the only chance she has.

I'll be thinking of you and praying this young woman makes the choices she needs to make.


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## Mama (Sep 14, 2008)

Don't be embarassed Smokeking, you can't control another persons behavior.  Like the others, I think you need to give her a little "tough love".  Don't enable her.  I have a stepdaughter who used to be very similar and although it was hard, we had to let her hit rock bottom before giving her a hand.  This was several years ago and now she is a successful, responsible person and totally understands why we gavae her tough love.


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## luvs (Sep 14, 2008)

i'm with those saying not to enable her habits...


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## smoke king (Sep 15, 2008)

Thanks everyone-I cannot begin to tell you how nice it is to know that other people understand my position on this. This has been a point of contention between my wife and I, and I feel that I have to be very careful as to how I handle the situation-I don't want to damage my marriage in any way. This is my wifes daughter, and my step-daughter. While my Mrs. agrees with my position (which is basically the same as yours) her "maternal instincts" keep it from being as "black & white" an issue as it is to the rest of us.

Since I started this thread, I agreed with my wife that she could stay, only if she were to agree to a strict and comprehensive set of ground rules.  So I called her up and began to lay them down. Within 5 minutes, she was screaming into the phone, calling me names that I dare not repeat (evidently, there are new combinations of expletives that I've never heard!) And hung up on me.

Well, not 30 minutes later, we started to get phone calls from family members around the country (those sympathetic to her plight) to let us know she had been calling them all to say "goodbye"-part of her M.O. has always been the threat of suicide-and that we needed to do something. Of course I asked them if they might be willing to take her in, and of course, they said that they would be glad to, except for.. (insert various reasons here).

She has been to rehab before-many times, most recently a couple of months ago. It only works if you actually want the help, and she does not.

So other than freezing my tail off at my Grandsons pee-wee  football game (they won 27-0, go Jr. Warriors!!) this is how I spent my weekend. The upside to it all though, is that her playing the "suicide card" has really opened my wifes eyes. We are both compassionate people,but we agree that to be "held hostage" by her threats of killing herself is no way to live, so we are not allowing her back in our house. As of right now, she is officially on her own. It feels like a huge weight has been lifted from my shoulders. I think, no, I know we made the right decision. I even sat down with my Mrs to discuss, God forbid, if she were to go through with her threat. Although it would be tragic and heartbreaking, we agreed that it would in no way be our fault, so I think she has a pretty good handle on this thing. 

Sorry to go on so long-but after reading through all of your kind words, It was obvious that many of you understand, and I really need'nt be ashamed of another persons behavior, so I thought I would at least update you on how the whole thing shook out (so far)

Thanks again everyone-I was and am overwhelmed by your responses. Barring any unforseen developments, I will try to keep the subject matter of my threads light-hearted and fun for awhile!!!

Bless you all!!


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## GhettoRacingKid (Sep 15, 2008)

I hope it will all work out for the best.  Maybe the tough love you and your wife are showing will open the step duaghters eyes and realize that she is the problem and then want the real help she needs to get her life back on track.

way to go Jr Warriors.  What postition does he play?


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## smoke king (Sep 15, 2008)

GhettoRacingKid said:


> way to go Jr Warriors.  What postition does he play?



He's 58.5 pounds of "smash-mouth" running back

Oh, and he plays safety on defense!!!


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## GhettoRacingKid (Sep 15, 2008)

way to go.  you must be proud.  hopfully one day he will be a big star in the NFL and finally give the buccaneers a decent running game.  even though its looking good this year.


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## quicksilver (Sep 15, 2008)

smoke king said:


> Thanks everyone-I cannot begin to tell you how nice it is to know that other people understand my position on this. This has been a point of contention between my wife and I, and I feel that I have to be very careful as to how I handle the situation-I don't want to damage my marriage in any way. This is my wifes daughter, and my step-daughter. While my Mrs. agrees with my position (which is basically the same as yours) her "maternal instincts" keep it from being as "black & white" an issue as it is to the rest of us.
> 
> Since I started this thread, I agreed with my wife that she could stay, only if she were to agree to a strict and comprehensive set of ground rules. So I called her up and began to lay them down. Within 5 minutes, she was screaming into the phone, calling me names that I dare not repeat (evidently, there are new combinations of expletives that I've never heard!) And hung up on me.
> 
> ...


 
When you layed down the ground rules: 1. you were protecting your whole family, 2. you were giving her structure she needs, but is denying. Boundries are very important, as obviously she is so lost, those are guidelines which would really help her, and will be required wherever she goes. 
Those sympathetic family members, maybe with good intentions - let them take her on. Until they walk in your shoes, idol talk......... 
The suicide card; she is blaming everyone and thing for her misery. As a juevinile would. A tantrum. But she is an adult and blame whoever, she is reponsible for her own action/inaction. You & your wifes "decision" and "agreement" that in no way would be your fault, is very intellectual of you. But will be hard to maintain, if she does do anything more to hurt herself. I agree with you, but be prepared to go up and down - how can anyone rational prepare for the irrational though.
The only thing to do to prepare is stick together, knowing the 2 of you are stonger than this problem, true faith in your God, and know that you like who you see in the mirror every morning. 
As far as sharing with us here, that's what families are for. And what do they say??....No man is an island.
Glad you felt comfort here.


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## Barbara L (Sep 15, 2008)

As the others said (and as you already know), you did the right thing.  I don't have time to say anything more, but that is the heart of it.

Barbara


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## kadesma (Sep 15, 2008)

I'm so glad you and your wife have agreed on this..It's hard and it hurts when you have to close a door to save a neck.Hopefully enough closed doors will help bring her to her senses..I'll pray she wakes up one day soon and realizes she has been handed a second chance to live.
I'll also pray all works out for your and your family..You've done one of the hardest thing there is to do in life... Try to save a life..Bless you
kadesma


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## VeraBlue (Sep 15, 2008)

You are enabling this behaviour to continue.  She's an adult and responsible for her actions.  You can help by offering a ride to a rehab, but permitting her to stay with you means you are okay with the theft, the abuse, the child neglect and the emotional roller coaster she comes with.
It's easy for me to say this because it's not my situation.  But...with nothing to lose, I can see it as clear as crystal on a sunny morning.

What isn't easy is for me to suggest how you live with yourself if you follow my advice.  Being able to live with it will be just as hard on you as it will be on the one you put out.   However, if you do this, chances are, you'll only have to be hard and cold just once.  It could be all that is required to turn her around.


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## jabbur (Sep 15, 2008)

As a mother I can understand your wife's split feelings.  Knowing what to do in your head and being able to follow through with your heart is not always easy.  I applaude you and your family for sticking to your guns.  Maybe when she realizes there is no one left but herself, she will begin to see what you see and make the changes in her life.  Continue to pray for her and let her know you love her but cannot do anything more for her.  I'm glad you found some peace and that you and your wife are in agreement.  That is very important that you present a unified front.  The weekend wasn't a total loss since the football team won!


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## B'sgirl (Sep 16, 2008)

I'm glad you were able to come to a decision. I hope it all works out for the best. Keep praying for her!


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## smoke king (Sep 19, 2008)

Well-she "kicked it up a notch"-her soon-to-be-ex husband found her on the floor this morning (thurs 9/18) unconcious and overdosed-evidently she washed down a handfull of psychotropic (?) pills with a bottle of vodka.

While I know this type of behavior should never be taken lightly, in all fairness this makes seven attempts since summer of 2005. Surprisingly, my wife took it well (all things considered) and the doctors said she will be OK.

A lot of advice I/we've recieved here on DC is resonating pretty loudly, and we've decided to stick to our guns. We will no longer enable this behavior-and we fully realize the risk. I've told her in the past that if she chooses to take her own life, i will be sad, but in no way will she be remembered as a hero or a martyr. That may sound harsh-but its truly the way I feel.

I not asking for more support-I am already overwhelmed by the outpouring of kindness from you all, and I don't even know how I could possibly thank you enough. Just know that in my heart of hearts, I am thankful for each and every one of you, and I mean that sincerely. 

I just thought I would bring you up to date. Now, I think I'll see about getting my valium Rx refilled


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Sep 19, 2008)

I ahve read only the first page of this thread.  But from that page, I have to concurr with the advice given.  But it's a difficult thing to do.  I know of a Mother-daughter relationship that is much like what you are discribing.  Unfortunately, the mother is enabling her daughter to misbehave.  And like your situation, there is a young child in the mix, only about 3 years of age.  The mother of the child is teaching the child to misbehave.  She thinks that it's funny.  She is destroying that child's future.  Do not let this person in your home, not only for your sake, but for the boy's as well.  If the woman won't accept help, then she has made her bed.  The cycle must be broken.  She can't be allowed to destroy her son's life as she has messed up her own.

It's a harsh thing to say, and I don't know that I'd be any better at turning one of my own away.  Fortunately, I don't have to.  They are all wonderful adults.

If it helps, think of it this way.  We are responsible to everyone else on this planet.  We need to hold out a hand of love and help, especially to our families.  But, if that person who needs help is tearing down the rest of the family, then they are a harm to themselves and everyone else around them, and must be removed.  When you enable a misbehaving person, you are giving them power.  Power is control.  Would you give a 6 year old child a shotgun?  No, because he hasn't the knowledge, or maturity to be trusted with that much power.  Power must be meeted out to people according to their ability to wield it.  And if they misuse it, it must be taken from them.  If this woman refuses to take accountability for her actions, and refuses to act reasonably, then the power to misbehave, at least in your home, must be taken from her.  My children, indeed, any who enter my home know that it is a no smoking, no swearing, no fighting, no alcohol zone.  My home is my refuge and sanctuary, and is such for anyone within it.  Break my household rules and you will be shown the door, even thrown out.  I've only had to throw one person out of my home, and that was a very long time ago.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## VeraBlue (Sep 19, 2008)

smoke king said:


> I just thought I would bring you up to date. Now, I think I'll see about getting my valium Rx refilled


 
RonJohn is making sidecars tonight....he mentioned it in the sidecar thread.  Why not go over there and drink some of my bourbon? (he's holding a few bottles hostage till I come to detroit, of all places).

Your on a rough road, but so is the young lady.  Counseling all around, I say.  Good luck, and I mean that.


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## Claire (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm sorry, but I'd say not only no, but aitch ee double hockey sticks no. I decided to forgoe having children, but at some point, no matter what, they have to grow up. I have two freinds who now have "children" older than me who cannot live their own lives.  (I'm 53).  Time to make the kids move on, especially if the kids are well into adult-hood.


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