# This law makes no sense to me



## DramaQueen (Jan 13, 2009)

*According to last night's news broadcast, a law is being considered by all of the States that will outlaw all cell phone use while driving.

Okay, I'm the first one to advocate that law. There will be a fine for talking on the phone. Text messaging will carry a stiff penalty, and I'm all for that too.  They should revoke the texter's license til they "grow up."  What kiind of idiot endangers his own life and the lives of others while he's punching letters into a phone?

The law will keep us from using our cell phone at anytime while driving.  They claim that even though you are a "hands free" cell phone user it is just as dangerous.

I wear a Bluetooth in the car when driving.  I use it at home too if I want to do other things with both hands while talking.

When I'm driving and my cell phone rings, I just tap my Bluetooth and answer.  If I want to make a call I tap my Bluetooth and hold it for about 3 seconds and use voice command.   I never have to touch my cell phone.I'm aware  that some of you hate the looks of a Bluetooth but it is a very useful appliance and keeps me from having to hold my phone, or search around for it when it rings as I'm driving.  

Now my question is:  If I'm not using my hands,  but just talking, how can that be any different than talking to someone in the passenger seat?  When I go out with my friends we usually take turns driving and I often have 4 other people in the car with me.  We're all talking so what's the difference?

Am I missing something?   *


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## Glorie (Jan 13, 2009)

That law became effective here in Washington as of 1/1/09


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## Andy M. (Jan 13, 2009)

Cell phones have become the highly visible poster boy for all driving distractions.  It's one easy target to attack.

I have seen people eating, drinking, shaving, brushing their teeth, putting on makeup, beating their kids in the back seat, and a myriad of other things that are more of a distraction that talking om the phone.


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## suziquzie (Jan 13, 2009)

Maybe not looking at the road when your bluetooth is acting up on you could distract you. 
Talking is distracting in a vehicle, phone, bluetooth, or human. NOBODY is perfect. Not even you.


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## CharlieD (Jan 13, 2009)

I also use bluetoth, and i would hate to see this law pass, and I agree it is not diferent than talking to somebody in the back seat, but it is much easier to pass the law outlawing talking on the phone than to pass the law oulawing talking to a person next to in your car.


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## Glorie (Jan 13, 2009)

Our law is that you have to use a hand's off device in the car, that's all


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## roadfix (Jan 13, 2009)

I think it's a terrific law.  I have trouble carrying on even a normal conversation with my passenger while driving. I can't think and drive at the same time.   Can you imagine me arguing with my wife on the phone while driving?  I think this law is written for people like myself.

BTW, I can chew gum and ride my bike at the same time, or exchange obscenities with a road raged driver while riding my bike....


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## Saphellae (Jan 13, 2009)

Wearing a headset while you're in the car could obstruct your ability to hear a car that you didn't see in your blind spot, among other things, essentially something happening that you should know about while driving. I know it is illegal to wear stereo head phones in your vehicle while driving, why should it be legal to wear just one in one ear?

Hands free is touchy. There are some people who certainly shouldn't be distracted while they are driving and that's that... the law protects against those types of people, whether or not it makes the rest of the population upset.


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## Alix (Jan 13, 2009)

I agree with you DQ. I think like anything else the cellphone has its place and there are safe ways to use it. I also use a bluetooth (I call it a geektooth though cuz it looks so dumb) when I'm driving and IMO it is much safer than having a conversation with someone in the passenger seat.

Edit: This topic comes up periodically and often gets very heated so please don't be surprised if this thread goes missing.


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## roadfix (Jan 13, 2009)

Alix said:


> Edit: This topic comes up periodically and often gets very heated so please don't be surprised if this thread goes missing.



I think most of can take the heat.  After all, this is the cooking forum....


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## quicksilver (Jan 13, 2009)

I would love to see this law pass.
Big difference between someone talking in your ear, and one in your space. Ask any parent who's kid is in the room screaming, 
Ma, Ma, Ma.", and one in your ear screaming the same.

I agree with Saph about the headphone principal.

My other thought is though - the increase in accidents by people who pull over to make their calls, then pull back on the road without paying enough attention.  BAM!

I don't know, somehow millions of people grew up out of contact with love ones or business associates every waking moment of the day, and we survived.


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## Saphellae (Jan 13, 2009)

Shall we start a cell phone burning crusade? Like the bra burning? lol


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## Alix (Jan 13, 2009)

roadfix said:


> I think most of can take the heat.  After all, this is the cooking forum....



LOL! Just a friendly warning. Most does not equal all my friend, not by a long shot!

My personal feeling is that I think eating or drinking while driving is more dangerous than using a hands free cell. How many folks do you see tipping their coffee cups up to get the last drop? I don't see any laws being passed to ban that. Frankly, I think this is covered under "driving without due care and attention". Why would you have to create specifics?


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## MexicoKaren (Jan 13, 2009)

I remember a study that AAA conducted a few years ago which showed that hands-free cell phones were not safer than hand-held, because the real problem was the distraction. So I googled it, and came up with this info from the US Insurance Information Institute:


[FONT=arial,geneva][FONT=arial,geneva]"Many studies have shown that using hand-held cellphones while driving can constitute a hazardous distraction. However, the theory that hands-free sets are safer has been challenged by the findings of several studies. A study from researchers at the University of Utah, published in the summer 2006 issue of Human Factors, the quarterly journal of the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society, concludes that talking on a cellphone while driving is as dangerous as driving drunk, even if the phone is a hands-free model. An earlier study by researchers at the university found that motorists who talked on hands-free cellphones were 18 percent slower in braking and took 17 percent longer to regain the speed they lost when they braked."

[/FONT][/FONT]I once pulled over on an interstate highway in Oregon to make a phone call and a state trooper pulled up behind me. When I told him I had just pulled over to make a phone call, he looked puzzled and then thanked me....[FONT=arial,geneva][FONT=arial,geneva]
[/FONT][/FONT]


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## Fisher's Mom (Jan 13, 2009)

I don't talk on the phone anymore while driving because I realized _myself_ that I am somewhat distracted. After googling the studies done on this, I realize I was probably even more distracted than I thought I was. So for me, I will continue to pull over if I absolutely have to make or receive a call while driving.

Oh, and I agree that passengers can be just as distracting if not more so to drivers. There are a lot of states that prohibit teen drivers from having teen passengers in the car while they are driving. I've certainly been known to pull over when the kids start getting out of hand and lecture them on the reality that I have their lives in my hands while I'm driving!!!


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## Maverick2272 (Jan 13, 2009)

My wife calls it my 'Borg Attachment', LOL. I think laws like this come about because some people can multi-task and others can't, and when enough of those that can't get in accidents, well the squeaky wheel gets the grease, LOL.
It is an easy target, but then again if it was never a problem there would not be anything to target. People are getting more and more upset about driving conditions these days, and want something done to make it more safe.
This was one they could get studies on and hammer out a law that could be specific enough to stand up. There may be others coming soon hereafter...
My one question though: Say there are two of you in the car but you have a tiny handsfree in your ear hidden by your hair.. how does the cop know if you are talking to a passenger or hands free?
Give people time, they will come up with work arounds... LOL.

Edited to add: Yes, I do pull over to talk on the cell phone, I am just not one of those chew bubble gum and walk guys LOL. I focus in hard when driving... have to in these areas!


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## Glorie (Jan 13, 2009)

My personal feeling is that I think eating or drinking while driving is more dangerous than using a hands free cell. How many folks do you see tipping their coffee cups up to get the last drop? I don't see any laws being passed to ban that. Frankly, I think this is covered under "driving without due care and attention". Why would you have to create specifics? [/quote]

I agree with Alix.  Isn't the point of a car to _drive???_  I see no problem while talking on a hands-free cell (I have one that fits on the visor) but those people I see eating, putting on makeup, fixing their hair, fiddling with the radio....ugh


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## pdswife (Jan 13, 2009)

Remember back a few years ago when I was rear ended... the teenage girl came out of her car covered in white cream??? "were you putting cream?" on I asked 

"No, I was eating salad!!!!" We'll ya know how I feel about eating while driving.

Hands free phones...not 100% safe but they are much safer than having a phone in one hand.....


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## MexicoKaren (Jan 13, 2009)

Yes, I agree that they are an easy target, and there are many habits that are far more dangerous. I think the US culture may be going overboard trying to protect us from ourselves and is turning into what the Canadians/English call "a nanny state." (This is from someone -me - who back in the 70s and 80s, lobbied on the state level for tougher laws on drunk driving, seatbelt use, child safety restraints and motorcycle helmets.) But there is only so much that laws can do, and people need to accept responsibility for their behavior. Is it possible that laws like this actually encourage people to abdicate their personal responsibility? Possible.


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## GB (Jan 13, 2009)

Maverick2272 said:


> My one question though: Say there are two of you in the car but you have a tiny handsfree in your ear hidden by your hair.. how does the cop know if you are talking to a passenger or hands free?


For that matter, just because your mouth is moving and you have a bluetooth in your ear how can the cop know you are on the phone. How do they know you are not talking to yourself or singing along with the radio or practicing a speech you are giving etc. 

I think there is no doubt that talking on the phone while driving is less than ideal from a safety point of view. The same can be said of talking to others in the car, driving while tired, changing the radio or playing with your iPod, driving after getting into a fight with your SO, driving with kids in the car, or any number of other distracting things. The truth is that we all make concessions when we get on the road. I think people need to take personal responsibility for their own actions. I talk (hands free, but not bluetooth) in the car from time to time. I only do it when I feel safe doing it. I do not do it in blinding rain or snow storms or in very heavy fast moving traffic. Driving on a single lane road doing 25mph I generally do not feel to nervous or distracted to have a conversation if I need to.


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## Mama (Jan 13, 2009)

According to the *National Safety Council*,  there is a big difference between talking on the phone and talking to someone next to you in the car.  Cell phones are a distraction whether it be hand-held or hands-free.  When you are talking to someone next to you , BOTH of you are watching your surroundings so, in fact, you are safer than if you are in the car by yourself.


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## Andy M. (Jan 13, 2009)

Mama said:


> ... When you are talking to someone next to you , BOTH of you are watching your surroundings so, in fact, you are safer than if you are in the car by yourself.




...or both are looking at each other, so in fact, you are much less safe than if you are alone.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jan 13, 2009)

Saphellae said:


> Wearing a headset while you're in the car could obstruct your ability to hear a car that you didn't see in your blind spot...



About that blind spot hting.  I don't have one in my car.  I was watching a program several years ago, where an advanced driving instructor was giving advice to enhance driving control.  Many of the things he was talking about I already knew, having had mandatory advanced driving training while in the Navy (it was for motorcycles and was mandatory to drive a bike on base, and many of the skills were applicable to cars).  This instructor stated that there needn't be a blind spot when checking the mirrors and explained that most of us were taught improper merror alignment in driver's training while in high school.  He stated that to prperly align the mirrors, the rear-view merror should show a clear view of the road directly behind the car.  The driver-side mirror should show the road to the left, picking up the car comming up from behind just as it begins to leave the left side of the rear-view mirror, and continue to show that car until you can see it through your side window.  The same is true of the passenger side mirror.  It should pick up any cars in the lane just to your right as that car begins to leave the right side of the rear-view mirror.

To achieve this alignment, you place your left cheek against the driver-side window, and adjust the driver-side mirror until you can jsut see the side of your own car.  Then, when you sit naturally, the mirror will be in the proper position.  To adjust the passenger side mirror, you need the help of the passenger, unless you have electric mirrors.  Then you adjust that mirror while driving until you get it adjusted properly.

I tried this technique and it works wonderfully well.  I no longer have to spin my head around to check my blind spot.  I never lose sight of any car behind me as it passes on either side.  I have found that in some vehicles, you might have to make minor adjustments after aligning the mirrors with the "cheek against the window" technique.  But it gets you in the ballpark.

My eldest son used to give me a bad time about how I adjusted my mirrors, stating that it wasn't how he was taught to do it in driver's training.  And you know that parents always know less than any other living person in the eyes of a teenage boy.  I finally stopped my car, on the street in front of my house and made him sit in the drivers seat.  I had him adjust the mirrors how he thought they should be.  I then walked from about 50 yards behind the car and as I got closer, moved to the left while still walking forward.  I aproximated where the blind spot would be and had him watch the mirrors.  We both agreed that there was a large blind spot.  And he said that it was the reason you have to turn around and check the blind spot when changing lanes.  I then had him adjust the mirrors by the tehcnique that I use and again walked from behind the car and to the left until I was adjacent to the driver side window.  He followed me from the rear-view mirror into the side-view mirror, and could see me until I was right beside him.  He was convinced that it was better.  With this technique, you no longer have to turn around, taking your eyes from the road in front of you, where things can happen in a split second.  You now only have to move your eyes, which is much quicker.  Ane when you have to do things quickly, it can be the difference between avoiding an accident, and being in the six-o-clock news.  I have avoided several accidents because of my mirror placement.  It is a valuable technique, and is so easy to adjust to, unless you are my co-worker, or my boss, two very stubborn and never wrong individuals who refuse to learn anything new, especially from me.

Ok, I hope I was clear, and not too wordy.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Maverick2272 (Jan 13, 2009)

Nope, not at all GW. It is the same technique they taught us when I went to drive school buses for awhile. People are so used to seeing the side of the car in the mirror they kinda freak when you move the mirror out, but it does work as you stated.
Good tip!


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## Mama (Jan 13, 2009)

Andy M. said:


> ...or both are looking at each other, so in fact, you are much less safe than if you are alone.


 
You're right, anything_ can _happen but, the chances are better that at least 1 out of the 4 eyes will be watching the road at any given time as opposed to 1 out of 2 eyes watching the road at any given time...especially if you are talking on a cell phone.


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## Andy M. (Jan 13, 2009)

I figured out that mirror set up some years ago.  

I figured if truck drivers could drive using mirrors and didn't need to keep turning around to see what was going on, I could too.


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## Scotch (Jan 13, 2009)

It's a wise proposal. Scientific, psychological studies, such as the those referenced in the article  by cited Mama above, prove conclusively what all reasonable adults know: you can't do two things at the same time as well as you can do either alone. That goes for driving and talking on the phone at the same time. 

The simple fact is that when you're talking on the phone while driving, your attention is drawn to the conversation and away from the road. That translates into slow driving in the fast lane, crossing the line into other lanes, failure to see or respond to hazards, failure to anticipate things such as an upcoming exit or turn, and extremely slow (or non-existent) responses in emergencies. We all know that to be true -- we see such dangerous behavior in OTHER drivers every time we're on the road.

Think you can do both? Call a friend and post a message to this board while your having a phone conversation with that person. Either your friend will get angry and hang up on you for not paying attention to him or her, or your post will take you 3 times as long to write and will be filled with mistakes. 

GET THESE JERKS OFF MY FREEWAY!


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## Loprraine (Jan 13, 2009)

> *I wear a Bluetooth in the car when driving. *


To me, it's all the same.  You are being distracted, one way or the other.  IMHO, you should not be allowed to wear it, or use it.


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## Lefty7887 (Jan 13, 2009)

From a person that walks all the time and when I am forced to drive, (weather constraints) I am completely for this law.  When I walk to work, I am close to being hit 3-4 times a week.  Mostly by someone on the cell.  When I have to drive (weather constraints) I am always amazed at the IDIOTS that must carry on a conversation when we have a winter weather advisory in effect.  The roads are terrible and you have fools wanting to talk.  I for the life of me can not see what is so important to talk about.  As a walker that has had to run (walkers have the right of way) to get out of the way of some idiot wanting to argue with his/her family/ conduct business/ order a meal, and risk my/others life, I can not see what the point is.  I personally think cell phone have upset the natural balance of things allowing others to interrupt us at our best, while we are having a family meal...  I just saw an article about a girl that had a record for texting every two minutes while she was awake.  I can't remember the total time, but it was astounding.  I think they had a 400 page bill.  What is the point?  I also am against blue tooth devices, I have almost been hit by drivers using them too.  Sorry, but thats my NSHO. I also love garlic!!!


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## Andy M. (Jan 13, 2009)

I have two issues with this kind of law.  Sadly, stating them would violate this site's prohibition on political discussion.


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## Katie H (Jan 13, 2009)

After almost being killed in an accident a few years ago (not my fault, by the way), I've become very sensitive to things that distract me while driving.  Even something as minor as a smear on the windshield.  Having said that, I have a cell phone and rarely use it while driving.

Also, I've been nearly broadsided by drivers who were eating or drinking something.

Driving has become such a defensive activity that I only drive as necessary.  Used to enjoy driving.

Yes, cell phones are a problem but, so is eating, drinking, putting on make-up, etc., etc., etc....while driving.

I don't think this law will make any real difference but I might be proven wrong.


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## Leolady (Jan 13, 2009)

Even good multi-taskers can be distracted.  With my life at stake, I prefer no cells.  But that is just me.


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## RobsanX (Jan 13, 2009)

I could care less who's talking on the phone, as long as they aren't hogging up the left lane!


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## sattie (Jan 13, 2009)

For the trips I make, there is no good reason that I can't wait to get to my destination to return the call or make a call. And if it is that important, I will pull into a gas station or some other well lit place to do what I need to do. I for one do not talk on a cell while driving or advocate it. I can't talk on a cell while driving, much less do anything else. In my opinioin, when I am driving, I have a very leathal weapon in my hands and I would prefer to concentrate on my driving and watching out for those who are on there cells and doing all those other things except driving. Most of the near misses I have had have involved somebody yappin/texting on a phone. 

But I have seen folks doing things like mentioned before, makeup, eating a bowl of cereal, reading... all those are just as dangerous, if not more. But the majority of the folks you see are on cell phones. So I guess that is why it is getting singled out.

My thoughts for what they are worth, and I work for a cell company.


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## mikki (Jan 13, 2009)

I put my phone on speaker phone when Im in the car. To me there is no difference then if someone is in the car with me. on speaker my hands are free and I'm talking and listening just like if someone was in the car or I was singing to the radio.


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## buckytom (Jan 13, 2009)

i drive A LOT in heavy traffic on a daily basis. even at high speeds.

it gives me the oppurtunity to drive next to, or pass and be passed bad drivers very frequently. 

much more often than not, maybe 90% or better, the driver that is swerving (even slightly), or changing speeds irregularly, or just not "gowing with the flow" is either using a cell phone or is obviously having a conversation with one of those lt. uhura things in their ears. (either that, or they're just nuts and are talking to themselves).

i'm usually on the side of freedom and personal responsibility, but this is way too much.

sometimes, very rarely, people* do *need to be protected from themselves. well, at least from hurting others. most accidents involve more than one car, so even though a few are capable of driving well through audible distractions, the vast majority cannot.

if you really need to talk, pull over somewhere for that critical minute or two. 

as far as driving by using mirrors goes: that's just plain stupid. how much effort does it take to turn your head and look? you're operating something with far more mass and inertia than you realize until it's too late. like a pilot, keep your head on a swivel.


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## gadzooks (Jan 13, 2009)

I just set my phone to answer on the third ring and clip it to the sun visor. If it rings, it answers on speaker, talks to me, I talk to it, when the caller hangs up, it hangs up. I bought my first cell phone for this feature, and I wouldn't buy a cell phone that didn't have it.


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## Andy M. (Jan 13, 2009)

buckytom said:


> ...as far as driving by using mirrors goes: that's just plain stupid. how much effort does it take to turn your head and look? you're operating something with far more mass and inertia than you realize until it's too late. like a pilot, keep your head on a swivel.




Bucky, I have to disagree.

Actually, with a slight eye movements to the left and right, you can check both mirrors and still be facing front.  I believe this is a lot safer than turning your head 90 degrees to the left or right.  And that only works if a door post or obstructed rear side window doesn't block your view.


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## Maverick2272 (Jan 13, 2009)

We were not taught to replace turning your head to look with this method of mirror adjustment, rather it was to diminish or even eliminate the blind spot so that in conjunction with all the other skills you use it improves safety.


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## Alix (Jan 13, 2009)

I have to say, I can appreciate the fact that everyone wants to be safe while in their vehicles or on the road. I think the point is we all need to make safe choices whether that means not using a cell phone, not drinking a coffee, or not putting on make up. Seriously. 

I fail to see the necessity for new laws when the existing ones cover these eventualities. Or are the laws different in the US than they are in Canada? As I mentioned before we have one about paying due care and attention which covers the whole texting/cell phone yakking thing. 

For the record, I drive teens regularly, and have driven children in a minivan for years. No one can tell me I'm a worse driver with my bluetooth on than I was with juice boxes tossed at my noggin.


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## Maverick2272 (Jan 13, 2009)

I know we have 'reckless driving' laws here, not sure how that compares to the laws in Canada though.
"No watching hockey while driving, eh!" LOL.


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## LeeAnn (Jan 13, 2009)

I don't even own a cell phone so I don't have to worry about being distracted that way.  I do find that people tend to be very much into their phone conversation and not paying as much attention to the road and other people around them.  I think unless it's an absolute emergency, there is no reason to be carrying on a phone conversation while driving - people should pull off the road and finish their conversation before merging back into traffic.  I don't have an answering machine or voice mail on my home phone and I still make it through each and every day just fine.  People will continue to do what they feel is their right, regardless of any laws that are in effect or get passed.  Things come and go and the planet continues to rotate.


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## JoeV (Jan 14, 2009)

A fly on the wall might say that this law was more about revenue generation for government bodies and lawyers who defend or prosecute the offender, than for public safety. The fly would say it's naive to think otherwise. After all, who creates the laws and assigns the penance?


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## Adillo303 (Jan 14, 2009)

I wholeheartedly agree with JoeV.

There a number of things that can go on in a vehicle that are distractions and can contribute to accidents. Loud stereos, have you heard those cars that reverberate down the block? Seats reclined to almost a laying down position. Hydraulic systems that are manually operated to make the car jump around ad look cool. People talking to passengers. Passengers getting roudy. Eating, drinking, reading, I have even seen people doing crossword puzzles while driving. Putting on makeup, and finally the cell phone.

It ti not possible to legislate the appropriate behavior in all of these situations. I think simpler is better. We have a system of traffic laws, if one of the above distractions contributes to the driver breaking a law, they should be issued a ticket for it. In New Jersey, it is not legal to use a handheld cell phone, it must be hands free. one of the greatest offenders is the local and county police. I rarely see them driving without a phone to their ar. Who issues them tickets?

I got a ticket for talking on my cell phone. I was stopped at the entrance to the Lincoln Tunnel leaving Manhattan. The tunnel was blocked and not moving, I was surrounded by cars that could not move either. I really do not think tht I was driving at the point. I called home to say that I would be late. There were 9 officers standing on the side to issue summons for $125.00 each. Each officer can issue a summons in about 10 minutes, that is $6,750.00 per hour. Is it really about safety? In my small town (1 Square mile) I see two to four officers standing on the side of the road, in town, in a 25 MPH speed limit, on a sunny summer day, issuing seat belt tickets to folks leaving town. They stand at the town line. Sorry, but, it looks like revenue generation to me.

Mods, please delete my post is I am out of line, I really am not saying this with any degree of anger.


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## padams2359 (Jan 14, 2009)

I have worked for a cell phone company for 15 years.  I drive 45 miles one way to work each day, so I do have some substantial driving time.  Due to the fact that this is my business, I tend to pay attention to what is going on with the devices more than most, and have been for a long time.  I know I am going to get attacked for this, but it is just an observation that I have made over a long period of time.  The absolute worst are women in SUVs.  They are totally oblivious of what is going on around them.  Drive in the left lane, and stay even with the car next to them, and NEVER look in their rearview mirror. Men do it too, but it is predominately women driving small school buses. The next group is teens and twenties.  They are usually at least 2 of them in the car, and they are both on the phone.  Are they talking to each other?   My wife’s ignition and send button are the same thing.  I cannot tell you how many times she has called me and it is raining.  GET OFF THE PHONE!  Or as I prefer to put it, “Shut Up and Drive”.  It is illegal to text and drive in Louisiana.  As far as talking on the phone and driving, I am not sure how that would work.  Do they ticket you if your mouth is moving?  Do they subpoena your phone records to see if you were on a call?  I cannot tell you how many times over the years I have worked with people that do not have accidents themselves, but have left many in their wake of not paying attention to what is going on around them.  People wonder why other people have Road Rage.  It is because others do not have the consideration to pay attention to what is going on around them.  Sorry for the rambling, but this is one of my Pet Peeves.  It has actually moved up above people that put empty ice trays back in the freezer.


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## buckytom (Jan 14, 2009)

man, i'm right with ya, padams.

nothing worse than a woman that puts back empty trays. that's why their feet are smaller. so they can reach the sink better than men can...


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## padams2359 (Jan 14, 2009)

No, that was my college roommate, and then had the nerve to complain that there was no ice.  If he did not have time to fill it, just put it on the counter.  Don't take the time to put it back in the freezer.


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## lifesaver (Jan 14, 2009)

I have a cell phone but I don't use it while driving. A couple of years ago a woman almost ran head on into my vehicle because she was paying more attention to her cell phone then where she was driving. Driving and talking on the cell phone just doesn't mix.


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## quicksilver (Jan 14, 2009)

lifesaver, love the photo/avatar! Adorable!


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## padams2359 (Jan 14, 2009)

It is not that I am against talking on a cell phone and driving period.  I just think most people do not know what their priorities should be.   My commute is about 50 minutes in the morning, and again in the afternoon.  This is my time.  I do not want to be talking on the phone, or not talking the whole way to and from work.  I hate talking on the phone period.  Kinda funny considering the job I have had for the last 15 years.  I also find it rude to the other people that happen to be in the car with you.  When my boys are in the car with me, I really hate to be on the phone.  I want to talk to them.  They are 12 and 9.  How much longer will it be that they are in the car with me?  My wife did get me a blue tooth device that allows the audio to play through the car speakers.  I like it a lot.  I have some tunes on my phone, and it plays those.  When the phone rings, the music stops, and I can carry on my conversations.  Once you hit the end button, the music starts back where it paused at the beginning of the call.


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## lifesaver (Jan 14, 2009)

Quicksilver, Thank you! That is a picture of my 4 year old grandson, Jerry giving me a welcome home kiss after spending 4 months in the hospital from having a stroke.


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## sattie (Jan 14, 2009)

padams2359 said:


> It is not that I am against talking on a cell phone and driving period. I just think most people do not know what their priorities should be. My commute is about 50 minutes in the morning, and again in the afternoon. This is my time. I do not want to be talking on the phone, or not talking the whole way to and from work. I hate talking on the phone period. Kinda funny considering the job I have had for the last 15 years. I also find it rude to the other people that happen to be in the car with you. When my boys are in the car with me, I really hate to be on the phone. I want to talk to them. They are 12 and 9. How much longer will it be that they are in the car with me? My wife did get me a blue tooth device that allows the audio to play through the car speakers. I like it a lot. I have some tunes on my phone, and it plays those. When the phone rings, the music stops, and I can carry on my conversations. Once you hit the end button, the music starts back where it paused at the beginning of the call.


 
I have had the same type of job for over 20 years now and feel pretty much the same as you do about cell phones.


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## RobsanX (Jan 14, 2009)

Nobody calls me while I'm driving... I don't have any friends...


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## GB (Jan 14, 2009)

Lets please stay away from the politics side of this topic. Talking about "revenue generation for government bodies" violates our rules. If we can keep on topic without going to politics then this topic can remain up on the board.


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## sattie (Jan 14, 2009)

RobsanX said:


> Nobody calls me while I'm driving... I don't have any friends...


 
Me either!!!    I'm crying right along with ya!


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## jennyema (Jan 14, 2009)

DramaQueen said:


> *Am I missing something? *


 

There is scientific evidence that talking on the phone handsfree is almost as distracting as holding the phone.

It's the talking itself that distracts the brain from the task at hand -- driving.


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## Alix (Jan 14, 2009)

jennyema said:


> There is scientific evidence that talking on the phone handsfree is almost as distracting as holding the phone.
> 
> It's the talking itself that distracts the brain from the task at hand -- driving.



Well in that case we should enact legislation banning talking while driving rather than on cell phone usage. I'm not being facetious, I'm just pointing out what IMO is faulty logic. (not your logic Jenny, the lawmakers)


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## roadfix (Jan 14, 2009)

RobsanX said:


> Nobody calls me while I'm driving... I don't have any friends...
> 
> 
> sattie said:
> ...



I can relate.  All three of us should get together.  Oh, and leave your cell phones at home.


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## RobsanX (Jan 14, 2009)

roadfix said:


> I can relate.  All three of us should get together and leave your cell phones at home.



LOL!


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## B'sgirl (Jan 14, 2009)

I believe the difference between talking on the phone and talking to someone in the passenger seat is that the person in the passenger seat can see what is going on the road and knows when to shut up and let you concentrate. The person on the cell phone only sees what is going on in their own location.


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## GB (Jan 14, 2009)

B'sgirl said:


> I believe the difference between talking on the phone and talking to someone in the passenger seat is that the person in the passenger seat can see what is going on the road and knows when to shut up and let you concentrate. The person on the cell phone only sees what is going on in their own location.


I do not think that is much of a difference. 

For one thing, just because they can see what is going on in front of them does not mean they will be able to alert the driver with enough time for the driver to react. When accidents happen it is often because of split second decisions. Also very often, the person in the passengers seat is not even looking at the road. I know when my wife is a passenger and I am driving she is looking at me when talking to me or she might be looking at the kids behind us or reading a magazine or looking at the car next to us.


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## roadfix (Jan 14, 2009)

B'sgirl said:


> I believe the difference between talking on the phone and talking to someone in the passenger seat is that the person in the passenger seat can see what is going on the road and knows when to shut up and let you concentrate. The person on the cell phone only sees what is going on in their own location.



Agree.  Also, your passenger in the front seat can hit the brake pedal that's not there....


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## DramaQueen (Jan 14, 2009)

mikki said:


> I put my phone on speaker phone when Im in the car. To me there is no difference then if someone is in the car with me. on speaker my hands are free and I'm talking and listening just like if someone was in the car or I was singing to the radio.



*You are the only one who actually responded to my question.  The question was not about whether we should outlaw cell phones, the question was about the DIFFERENCE between using a bluetooth or  talking to someone who is sitting next to you.  I've been driving for over 50 years, and have had others in the car with me while driving most of those years.  You are never going to convince me that you aren't looking at each other once in a while while talking.  The passengers are NOT watching the road, they're involved in a conversation and they are expecting ME to watch the road.  

As for the comment about my not being able to see a car in my blind spot because of the headset,  please Google "Bluetooth"  and see what this thing actually looks like.  It's about 2 inches long and fits in your ear.  No way can there be an obstruction.  And my mirrors are set so I can see everything, everywhere all the time.  I drive a Buick Rendevous and the mirrors are huge.  But that's not the point.  My point is:  What is the difference between using a bluetooth or talking to a live person?  The law is specific and I'm wondering why.  If you outlaw headsets because the conversation is distracting,  then you have to outlaw driving with a passenger in the car.  Get it?   NOW tell me what you think.  And thanks Alix for understanding. *


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## DramaQueen (Jan 14, 2009)

RobsanX said:


> Nobody calls me while I'm driving... I don't have any friends...



 Thanks, we needed that.


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## GB (Jan 14, 2009)

DramaQueen said:


> The law is specific and I'm wondering why.  If you outlaw headsets because the conversation is distracting,  then you have to outlaw driving with a passenger in the car.


It is very simple. Laws have to be enforceable. There is no way to enforce a law that says you can't talk to a person sitting next to you in a car. not to mention that a law like that would never pass. No one is going to agree to not talking to someone while driving. It is just not realistic. Enforcing a law that says you can't use a bluetooth with driving with come with its own set of challenges in enforcing it, but it is much more doable that outlawing talking to a person in your car while driving.


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## Alix (Jan 14, 2009)

GB said:


> I do not think that is much of a difference.
> 
> For one thing, just because they can see what is going on in front of them does not mean they will be able to alert the driver with enough time for the driver to react. When accidents happen it is often because of split second decisions. Also very often, the person in the passengers seat is not even looking at the road. I know when my wife is a passenger and I am driving she is looking at me when talking to me or she might be looking at the kids behind us or reading a magazine or looking at the car next to us.



Yep GB I'm like your wife. When I'm the passenger, often we play "punchbug" (without punching to distract the driver of course) or the license plate game. No way am I paying attention like I would be if I were driving. That is not my job while I'm in the passenger seat.

And apologies DQ for not staying more on topic. I think I have been clear that I don't see a difference between conversation with passengers and conversation on a bluetooth or other hands free device. And to comment on the passenger should know when to shut up and let the driver concentrate...agreed, but again, in the real world how often does that happen? The passenger is often dealing with the kids, reading, working on a laptop...all the things the driver SHOULDN'T be doing. 

DQ, you should start a poll to see what folks think about this. I think you are going to need quite a few options though.


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## Andy M. (Jan 14, 2009)

Evidence also shows that teenage drivers have many more accidents when driving with other teens in the car (as compared to driving alone).  No cell phones involved.


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## Alix (Jan 14, 2009)

GB said:


> It is very simple. Laws have to be enforceable. There is no way to enforce a law that says you can't talk to a person sitting next to you in a car. not to mention that a law like that would never pass. No one is going to agree to not talking to someone while driving. It is just not realistic. Enforcing a law that says you can't use a bluetooth with driving with come with its own set of challenges in enforcing it, but it is much more doable that outlawing talking to a person in your car while driving.



Agreed GB, but there are jillions of laws on the books that are unenforceable. (You have to go read the Balderdash game, I laugh my butt off everytime we play it) It still seems to me that there is ALREADY a law that covers this particular situation, so I fail to understand why they would need another. (DQ, sorry to hijack a bit here) Am I missing something? Why would you need a law about cellphone usage (either hands free or not), or a law about talking to a passenger, or about drinking coffee or anything else a driver is doing? Does the US not have the citation in place about "driving with due care and attention"? If you get in an accident because you are acting like a dork behind the wheel for whatever reason doesn't that law cover it?


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## DramaQueen (Jan 14, 2009)

Alix said:


> DQ, you should start a poll to see what folks think about this. I think you are going to need quite a few options though.



 *  I DID start a poll, right here, but it ain't workin'.  But I have to admit a lot of people have a lot of different views on cell phones even though that wasn't the point of the original question.  I like the differences of opinions.  I have no desire to give up my bluetooth.  It keeps my hands on the wheel,  and I CAN concentrate on my driving.  Never had a ticket or an accident  (that was my fault) in my life.  And I will blog about  the cell phone issue. *


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## GB (Jan 14, 2009)

I will go one step further to say that I think talking to a person in the passenger seat could even be more distracting than talking on a hands free phone. I know that when I talk to someone next to me then I do turn and look at them from time to time. On the phone, I do not do that. My eyes stay on the road.


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## buckytom (Jan 14, 2009)

the next thing will be heads up displays on the windshields.

gps, video phones, target acquisition, disney movies...


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## Adillo303 (Jan 14, 2009)

DQ - To answer your question, I see no difference between talking on the phone and talking to someone in the car. Each can have it's own set of problems / distractions. It is completely dependent on the ability of the driver to remain focused on the task at hand.

GB - Do you think that such a law would be enforcable? 

There just is not an easy answer here.


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## Ken (Jan 14, 2009)

Alix said:


> Yep GB I'm like your wife. When I'm the passenger, often we play "punchbug" (without punching to distract the driver of course) or the license plate game.


 
No, it's YOU that plays the game.   I just roll my eyes.


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## GB (Jan 14, 2009)

Adillo303 said:


> GB - Do you think that such a law would be enforcable?


No, I do not think so, but I do think that there are enough people out there who believe it is so if it ever came to vote on then I could see it passing. I do not think that would be true of a similar law about talking to people who are in the car with you.


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## roadfix (Jan 14, 2009)

OFF TOPIC JOKE, but since we're talking about communication....:
*
Redneck Archaeologist*

After having dug to a depth of 10 feet last year, New York scientists found traces of a copper-wire system dating back 100 years, and they came to the conclusion that their ancestors already had a telephone network more than 100 years ago.

Not to be outdone by New Yorkers, in the weeks that followed, California scientists dug to a depth of 20 feet, and shortly after, headlines in  the LA Times newspaper read: 

'California archaeologists have found traces of 200 year old copper-wire system and have concluded that their ancestors already had an advanced high-tech communications network a hundred  years earlier than the New Yorkers.'

One week later, 'The Redneck Rebel  Gazette' in West Virginia reported the following: 

After digging as deep  as 30 feet in a corn field, Bubba Ray Johnson, a self-taught archaeologist, reported that he found absolutely nothing. 

Bubba has therefore concluded that 300 years ago, West Virginia had already gone wireless.


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## QSis (Jan 14, 2009)

Well, geez, a quick Google search yields all kinds of hits for the studies that say using cell phones while driving is more hazardous than talking to a passenger.

Here's just one: Study: More Dangerous to Drive on Cell Phone than Chat with Passenger

Lee


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## Fisher's Mom (Jan 14, 2009)

OK, to answer the question at hand - I do think there is a difference between talking to passengers and talking on a cellphone, hands-free included. A passenger can see that you are still there and if you don't answer, it's because your complete attention to the road is required at that particular moment. There aren't drop-outs where the other person is wondering if you are still there. There is no third distraction - namely the cellphone device.

I _do_ think that passengers can be distracting. I think that eating or shaving or some _other_ activities people engage in while driving are very dangerous - far more dangerous than cellphone talking. But I don't think that's a reason to _not_ legislate cellphone usage. That reasoning seems a little goofy to me. It's like saying "even though I know this makes me a less attentive driver, it's better than some other more dangerous things I _could_ be doing".

On a lighthearted note, maybe we should have cellphone lanes. Like the HOV lanes we have now.


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## Fisher's Mom (Jan 14, 2009)

Oh, you're right about a hands-free law being difficult to enforce. But there are plenty of people who will just obey the law rather than take their chances.


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## Mama (Jan 14, 2009)

Fisher's Mom said:


> ...On a lighthearted note, maybe we should have cellphone lanes. Like the HOV lanes we have now.


 
They don't make lanes wide enough...

Seriously though, how many times have you seen a driver drift in and out of their lane, cut people off, change lanes without signaling, almost miss their exit and cut across 3 lanes of traffic, follow another car too closely, sit a a light long after it turns green, and the list goes on and on and on and on. How many times do you look over and see the person either talking on a cell phone or talking on a hands-free device? I don't believe it can be a coincidence as many times as it happens. I live in Atlanta and more often than not that is the case. There may be some of you who are very good drivers and can handle the multi-tasking but for the most part, that is simply not the case. 

Even for those of you who think it's only a minor distraction or that their are worse things you could be doing...is my life and the life of my family really worth taking that chance? Is the conversation REALLY all that important?


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## GB (Jan 14, 2009)

Mama said:


> Seriously though, how many times have you seen a driver drift in and out of their lane, cut people off, change lanes without signaling, almost miss their exit and cut across 3 lanes of traffic, follow another car too closely and the list goes on and on and on and on.   How many times do you look over and see the person either talking on a cell phone or talking on a hands-free device?  I don't believe it can be a coincidence as many times as it happens.


I do not agree that it can be a distraction. At the same time though I remember driving before cell phones and I can recall many times that the above happened. Even though we see someone driving like an idiot while on the phone it does not mean it is the phones fault. That person just may always drive like an idiot.


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## Fisher's Mom (Jan 14, 2009)

GB said:


> I do not agree that it can be a distraction. At the same time though I remember driving before cell phones and I can recall many times that the above happened. Even though we see someone driving like an idiot while on the phone it does not mean it is the phones fault. That person just may always drive like an idiot.


That's something we can _all_ agree on - there are too many people on the road that drive like idiots!!!!


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## GB (Jan 14, 2009)

Fisher's Mom said:


> there are too many people on the road that drive like idiots!!!!



There are too many people on the road period.


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## Mama (Jan 14, 2009)

You're right, there will always be idiots on the road but Statistics have shown that there are more idiots on the road because the phones are indeed a distration (whether they are hand held or hands free).


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## Fisher's Mom (Jan 14, 2009)

GB said:


> There are too many people on the road period.


OMG, so true. The thing I hate most about visiting my mom in Houston or my sons in Austin is the unbelievable traffic! As I recall, Boston had some serious traffic, too.


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## Katie H (Jan 14, 2009)

I've read this whole thread and I'm fascinated at how technology "grabs" us.  Cell phones have become a "must have" now.  Makes me wonder how in the world we ever got along without them.

Buck and I got a cell phone a couple of years ago because either of us would have to drive some distance alone and used it as a safety device and not for chit-chat with anyone.  Now that Buck is gone, I have my cell phone with me but don't turn it on.

Somehow we got along without all our so-called important phone conversations before cell phones came along.  A simple solution is to turn off our phones when we're driving.  Unless our occupation is one that requires a 24/7 presence or there is a dire family situation, our phones are merely an accessory.


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## GB (Jan 14, 2009)

Mama said:


> You're right, there will always be idiots on the road but Statistics have shown that there are more idiots on the road because the phones are indeed a distration (whether they are hand held or hands free).


I have no doubt that this is accurate.


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## Lefty7887 (Jan 14, 2009)

GB said:


> There are too many people on the road period.



Thats why I live in the sticks, the only time we have a lot of people on the road is Tourist Season..  BTW, why do they call it a season if you can't hunt them?


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## jennyema (Jan 14, 2009)

*"Is there a difference between gabbing on your cell when you drive and talking to the person sitting next to you?* 

According to a report in the December issue of the Journal of Experimental Psychology: Applied, published by the American Psychological Association, there is.

Researchers found that drivers make more mistakes when talking on a cell phone than when talking to passengers. This finding addresses the common question about whether driver distraction comes from cell-phone specifically or conversation generally.

Even when drivers used a hands-free cell phone, performance was significantly compromised.

"Cell phone and passenger conversation differ in their impact on a driver's performance; these differences are apparent at the operational, tactical, and strategic levels of performance," the researchers wrote."


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## roadfix (Jan 14, 2009)

Katie E said:


> Makes me wonder how in the world we ever got along without them.
> Somehow we got along without all our so-called important phone conversations before cell phones came along.


Oh, we got along just fine.
We made and received important phone calls all the time before cell phones.  There were phone booths and pay phones at every street corner.

The only difference today is that 99.9% of all cell phone conversations and instant messenging are useless chit chat.


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## Katie H (Jan 14, 2009)

roadfix said:


> The only difference today is that 99.9% of all cell phone conversations and instant messaging are useless chit chat.



Bingo!


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## GB (Jan 14, 2009)

roadfix said:


> The only difference today is that 99.9% of all cell phone conversations and instant messenging are useless chit chat.


I disagree. Obviously that percentage is just made up, but it it the spirit of it that I do not agree with. Yes there is TONS of useless chit chat going on, but there is also TONS of useful conversations going on. Business used to be 9-5. That is no longer true. People conduct business, and a lot of it on cell phones, constantly. That is just one piece of it. What about kids calling their parents to let them know where they are or parents talking to each other on cell phones on their commute home to arrange dinner or picking up kids or what have you. I do not disagree that talking on a cell phone while driving is not the safest thing in the world to do, but I do not agree that the large majority is necessarily just useless chit chat. Yes there is a good chunk of that I am sure, but there is also a good chunk of useful conversation happening as well.


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## Katie H (Jan 14, 2009)

I should add then when someone calls me at home and I see it's their cell number, I usually ask where they are.  If they are calling while driving, I excuse myself and ask them to call me again when they're free.  I would never forgive myself if they were in an accident while conversing with me on their cell phone.


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## Mama (Jan 14, 2009)

Katie E said:


> I've read this whole thread and I'm fascinated at how technology "grabs" us. Cell phones have become a "must have" now. Makes me wonder how in the world we ever got along without them.
> 
> Buck and I got a cell phone a couple of years ago because either of us would have to drive some distance alone and used it as a safety device and not for chit-chat with anyone. Now that Buck is gone, I have my cell phone with me but don't turn it on.
> 
> Somehow we got along without all our so-called important phone conversations before cell phones came along. A simple solution is to turn off our phones when we're driving. Unless our occupation is one that requires a 24/7 presence or there is a dire family situation, our phones are merely an accessory.


 
...and not worth endangering another persons life or property.


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## roadfix (Jan 14, 2009)

GB said:


> I disagree. Obviously that percentage is just made up, but it it the spirit of it that I do not agree with. Yes there is TONS of useless chit chat going on, but there is also TONS of useful conversations going on. Business used to be 9-5. That is no longer true. People conduct business, and a lot of it on cell phones, constantly. That is just one piece of it. What about kids calling their parents to let them know where they are or parents talking to each other on cell phones on their commute home to arrange dinner or picking up kids or what have you. I do not disagree that talking on a cell phone while driving is not the safest thing in the world to do, but I do not agree that the large majority is necessarily just useless chit chat. Yes there is a good chunk of that I am sure, but there is also a good chunk of useful conversation happening as well.



I agree with the points you've made.  Wireless communication has helped increase work convenience and production for many, and not to mention, the quality of life in general for many as well.

But on the other hand, I am also part of the 'useless chit chat' cell phone users.  When I'm bored I often call my wife, daughters, and other family members and talk about......nothing.


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## Katie H (Jan 14, 2009)

When you're bored, roadfix, why not turn on the radio?  Sing along, even if you aren't the best singer.


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## Fisher's Mom (Jan 14, 2009)

Katie E said:


> A simple solution is to turn off our phones when we're driving.  Unless our occupation is one that requires a 24/7 presence or there is a dire family situation, our phones are merely an accessory.


Such and excellent point! I got my mom a cell phone on my plan because she never uses it for chatting, but I want her to have one with her for emergencies. It's been a real lifesaver a couple of times but for the most part, she doesn't make calls on it.

My daughter, on the other hand, is an executive who travels extensively and has a very high-pressure job. During work hours, her phone rings constantly with work related issues. It also rings constantly after hours with work related issues! She doesn't ever have personal calls because she's too busy fielding work calls. We are constantly reminding her that there is also an off button on the phone! Life's too short.


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## roadfix (Jan 14, 2009)

Katie E said:


> When you're bored, roadfix, why not turn on the radio?  Sing along, even if you aren't the best singer.



But if I don't use up the 500 free minutes and unlimited nights and weekend minutes each month I somehow feel cheated!


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## DramaQueen (Jan 14, 2009)

*I agree that the law to ban cell phone use, even hands free cell phone use, will be diffiult at best to enforce.  Most people who use Bluetooth have long hair so it can't be seen.  Those who have the BT stuck in their right ear will also be hidden from view from the driver's window.  A cop would have to stop you for a reason before you can be cited for using a headset (BT or not) and with one tap on your ear you are disconnected.  Just because you're wearing BT doesn't mean you were talking while driving.  Just a note here,  because I'm involved in several things, I get many calls on my cell  phone.  One of the reasons is that I have my calls forwarded from my land line to my cell when I leave the house.  I DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCTUMSTANCES carry on a "chit-chat" conversation when I 'm driving.  State your business and get off the phone.  I always tell the chatter I will call them back.   I have two kids who are on the road and two grandkids, one of which is a new driver.  I am NOT going to turn off my cell phone.  That's why I HAVE one in the first place.  And for the record I DO NOT TEXT anyone.  Ever!

Now let me post another point.  I was just at the supermarket and while waiting for a light to change I noticed the guy next to me (he was alone) obviously listening to the radio and "bopping" his head and hands and singing.   When you listen to talk radio in the car or  sing along with a music station are you not doing the very thing that could distract you? HOw many people do you know never talk to passengers, never listen to music and/or sing along, and never  listen to talk radio?   I couldn't come up with one if I had to.

Chit chatting while driving is just plain stupid and text messaging is not only stupid it is criminal in my opinion and should result in having their license revoked.  I don't want some idiot putting me or my family in jeopardy for the sake of asking, "hey watcha  doin.?"
  Geez.

*[/B]


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## roadfix (Jan 14, 2009)

Katie E said:


> A simple solution is to turn off our phones when we're driving.  Unless our occupation is one that requires a 24/7 presence or there is a dire family situation, our phones are merely an accessory.



Exactly.  This is no different that turning off your cell phone while attending church service, at the library, at the theatre, or at the dinner table.


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## jennyema (Jan 14, 2009)

DramaQueen said:


> *Now let me post another point. I was just at the supermarket and while waiting for a light to change I noticed the guy next to me (he was alone) obviously listening to the radio and "bopping" his head and hands and singing. When you listen to talk radio in the car or sing along with a music station are you not doing the very thing that could distract you? HOw many people do you know never talk to passengers, never listen to music and/or sing along, and never listen to talk radio? I couldn't come up with one if I had to.*[/b]


 

Did you read what I posted?


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## Mama (Jan 14, 2009)

DramaQueen said:


> *Now let me post another point. I was just at the supermarket and while waiting for a light to change I noticed the guy next to me (he was alone) obviously listening to the radio and "bopping" his head and hands and singing. When you listen to talk radio in the car or sing along with a music station are you not doing the very thing that could distract you? HOw many people do you know never talk to passengers, never listen to music and/or sing along, and never listen to talk radio? I couldn't come up with one if I had to. *


 
*So what's one more distraction?*



> *Chit chatting while driving is just plain stupid and text messaging is not only stupid it is criminal in my opinion and should result in having their license revoked. I don't want some idiot putting me or my family in jeopardy for the sake of asking, "hey watcha doin.?"*
> *Geez.*


 
I don't want me or my family to be put in jeopardy for the sake of ANY conversation!


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## elaine l (Jan 14, 2009)

Here is my two cents...well maybe a little bit more.

I wouldn't dare to quote percentages on who is saying what on their cell but if it's anything like the conversations I overhear while in a store then there is a lot of idle chit chat although not all.

Having a cell phone, no matter what you do, is a luxury not an absolute necessity.

But on the other hand there are too many rules and regulations.  Anything you do while driving besides concentrating on your driving is a distraction.  Drinking coffee, changing stations on the radio, talking to a passenger etc. are all distractions, even if it's for a brief moment.  I think anyone driving a car is guilty of at least one of these. 

My car is equipped with bluetooth but I generally have my phone off while driving.  In my little world, I don't need a phone call in my car.  I know this is not true for everyone.


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## B'sgirl (Jan 14, 2009)

I have heard of places--but I can't remember where so don't quote me on this--that have a law where you can't be pulled over for talking on your phone, but if you get pulled over for some offense and have been talking on your phone or doing a number of other distracting things you get an additional fine. It seems wise to be able to fine people for being irresponsible while driving, but I think it could get out of hand. It places the police officer as a judge to decide whether the driver should have been eating their french fries or not while driving. It seems so arbitrary to me. 

I do however agree that you can't argue with numbers and studies truly have shown that drivers make more mistakes while on a cell phone than talking to a passenger. I don't presume to know the reason, but as long as the studies were done correctly, the numbers don't lie.

Article 1
Artice 2
Article 3

There were plenty more articles as well. And it doesn't mean _every  _driver--it just means _most_ drivers are more distracted while on a phone than when talking to a passenger.


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## QSis (Jan 14, 2009)

elaine l said:


> I wouldn't dare to quote percentages on who is saying what on their cell but if it's anything like the conversations I overhear while in a store then there is a lot of idle chit chat although not all.


 
I agree with your observation, elaine, but I would extend way beyond stores, to conversations overhead IN PUBLIC.  

Man, everyone, but everyone is on cell phones in my area: in ALL stores, walking down the street, public transportation, at Red Sox games, in restaurants, on the beach, in the car, at the pool ... oh, wait, I've said all this before .... I continue to tilt at windmills.  

But I digress.  

My point (this time) is that I agree with those who have observed that the overwhelming majority of cell phone conversations I've overheard are entirely gratuitous.  

Lee


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## roadfix (Jan 14, 2009)

The ones that look really silly are the ones that seem to be talking to themselves while walking down the street.  I would rather see a real phone at their ears so at least they look normal...


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## n2cookin (Jan 14, 2009)

I use hands free and speed dial on my cell phone.  I am a firm believer that people should not text while driving.  I do not think the cell phone companies will loose too much money if laws pass not allowing cell phones even if hands free to be used while driving.  Their is too much money being made allowing drivers to talk while driving.  I know safety should come before profits.  But I just have a feeling that this is one law that will not go without a lot of lobbying.


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## Adillo303 (Jan 14, 2009)

I really think that it has a lot to do with the individual driving. Some folks can talk and drive safely others cannot. Instead of making law after law and taking all the possibly dangerous toys away from each person till we end up with lots of laws that are not enforceable why not just hold people responsible for their actions. Swerve lanes exhibit intention etc. Get a ticket for thatction. Remember, we are paying legislator's salaries


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## roadfix (Jan 14, 2009)

n2cookin said:


> Their is too much money being made allowing drivers to talk while driving.  I know safety should come before profits.  But I just have a feeling that this is one law that will not go without a lot of lobbying.



Probably same reason why they (cell phone companies) will oppose private ownership and use of portable cell phone jammers.  I could have so much fun with such device if I owned one.


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## DramaQueen (Jan 14, 2009)

jennyema said:


> Did you read what I posted?



*Yes, I read your post.  If we believe that theory, then we have to believe that no one ever had an accident before cell phones, no one was or is now distracted while carrying on a conversation before cell phones, that if no one was allowed to even bring  cell phone into a car at all, there would never be another distraction caused accident.

As for the  the comment from Roadfix who said OUR cell phones are merely an accessory, maybe yours is but mine isn't.   A couple of months ago, my 17 year old grandson bought a car.  The day after he got that car I got a cell phone call from him - he was in a panic.  I happened to be in my car a mile away when he told me he ran out of gas at a very busy intersection at 4 pm in the afternoon.  Now this kid had just gotten his license the day before he bought the car so this really threw him.  (Just for the record his gas gauge showed nearly half a tank - it was broken.)  
If I hadn't had my phone or didn't have it turned on, this kid would have been in trouble.  He was blocking traffic from all angles.  His mother is not allowed to  have her cell phone on her at work and my son was in his garage without his phone.  I was the only one available to help him.  I never consider my phone an "accessory" not as long as I have family out there.  I hope none of you ever have you family try to get in touch with you during an emergency.   *


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## QSis (Jan 14, 2009)

DramaQueen, 

1. Jennyema, b'sgirl and I did not post "theories". We posted research findings. 

2. It is acknowledged (and obvious) that many things cause accidents besides talking on cell phones. But the point remains that talkng on cell phones while driving is hazardous.  MORE so than talking to a passenger, for example.



Lee


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## Alix (Jan 14, 2009)

OK folks everyone take a breath. This thread is heating up again. LOL. 

Out of curiosity, do you believe that those studies are completely unbiased? Or that the statistics you read are not manipulated in some way?

My personal feeling is that numbers can be manipulated to support nearly any position. I had an example to share, but it will really hijack this baby so I'm not posting it.


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## Mama (Jan 14, 2009)

Alix said:


> ...My personal feeling is that numbers can be manipulated to support nearly any position. I had an example to share, but it will really hijack this baby so I'm not posting it.


 
I totally agree with you that studies can and sometimes are biased.  That being said, IMO that usually happens when someone has something to benefit from the study turning out one way or another.  

I don't think these cell phone studies are biased because of several reason:
1) the cell phone companies are going to be up in arms over lost revenue.
2) there are several independent studies being done by folks who stand to gain nothing from this law passing.
3) My own observations lead me to believe these studies are indeed true.


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## DramaQueen (Jan 14, 2009)

Alix said:


> OK folks everyone take a breath. This thread is heating up again. LOL.
> 
> Out of curiosity, do you believe that those studies are completely unbiased? Or that the statistics you read are not manipulated in some way?
> 
> My personal feeling is that numbers can be manipulated to support nearly any position. I had an example to share, but it will really hijack this baby so I'm not posting it.



*That's funny.  Your comment about studies being biased was exactly why I called it a theory, but like you, I didn't want to open that can of worms.  *


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## DramaQueen (Jan 14, 2009)

Mama said:


> I totally agree with you that studies can and sometimes are biased.  That being said, IMO that usually happens when someone has something to benefit from the study turning out one way or another.
> 
> I don't think these cell phone studies are biased because of several reason:
> 1) the cell phone companies are going to be up in arms over lost revenue.
> ...



*This thread is still alive no matter how hard we beat it, so let me ask the question.  How do phone companies lose revenue over people not being able to talk while driving?  Not getting that one.  I pay for a certain number of minutes per month no matter where I am while talking.*


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## QSis (Jan 14, 2009)

Lol!  Omg .... Uncle!


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## Mama (Jan 14, 2009)

There are lots and lots of plans that are either prepaid or you can "pay-as-you-go". The more you talk the more money they make. Even if you don't have one of those plans, if you talk enough, you will run out of minutes and when you do, they charge you a ridiculous amount per minute.


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## RobsanX (Jan 14, 2009)

Alix said:


> OK folks everyone take a breath. This thread is heating up again. LOL.
> 
> Out of curiosity, do you believe that those studies are completely unbiased? Or that the statistics you read are not manipulated in some way?
> 
> My personal feeling is that numbers can be manipulated to support nearly any position. I had an example to share, but it will really hijack this baby so I'm not posting it.





> There are three kinds of lies: lies, ****ed lies, and statistics. -- Mark Twain


This quote is so true. A town can have one traffic accident in the 70's and two in the 80's, and someone will be there to say that traffic accidents doubled in just 10 years...


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## DramaQueen (Jan 15, 2009)

RobsanX said:


> This quote is so true. A town can have one traffic accident in the 70's and two in the 80's, and someone will be there to say that traffic accidents doubled in just 10 years...



*Well said.*


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## buckytom (Jan 15, 2009)

awww, that's a terribly flawed arguement.

they didn't even have cell phones in the 70's... 


lol.

it's only common sense that some people are able to use a cell phone and drive very well. but it's also common sense that many, many people cannot. it's just too obvious.

like i said, i almost always believe in the case for more freedom and more personal responsibilty. but since the thing you're doing can (and does everyday) easily harm or kill, you have to err on the lower demoniator. 
of course, i think it's not as applicable in less populated areas.

hmmm, didn't anyone ever see jiminey cricket when they were young?


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## B'sgirl (Jan 15, 2009)

You guys are right in pointing out that studies can be biased. I haven't read them so I don't know which are and which aren't. A law like that will always be controversial because even if good studies prove this or that about cell phones, where do you draw the line? No dogs in the car? No children? I am most likely to lose control of my vehicle while trying to calm a hysterical child in the back seat.


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## jennyema (Jan 15, 2009)

DramaQueen said:


> *Yes, I read your post. If we believe that theory, then we have to believe that no one ever had an accident before cell phones, no one was or is now distracted while carrying on a conversation before cell phones, that if no one was allowed to even bring cell phone into a car at all, there would never be another distraction caused accident.**. *


 

The study was all about interactive conversations on a telephone being a *different* sort of distraction than other conversations. So I'm not sure I understand your point.


"Likewise, it is easy to equate talking to a friend on a cellphone with talking to a friend in the passenger seat. But a December report in The Journal of Experimental Psychology: Applied debunked that notion. Utah researchers put 96 drivers in a simulator, instructing them to drive several miles down the road and pull off at a rest stop. Sometimes the drivers were talking on a hands-free cell phone, and sometimes they were chatting with a friend in the next seat.
Nearly every driver with a passenger found the rest stop, in part because the passenger often acted as an extra set of eyes, alerting the driver to the approaching exit. But among those talking on the cellphone, half missed the exit.

*“The paradox is that if the friend is sitting next to you, you drive safer,”* Dr. Strayer said. “When you talk to that person on a cellphone, you’re much more likely to be involved in an accident.”


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## Adillo303 (Jan 15, 2009)

Fascinating discussion - No matter what side of the fence you are on plese post your opinion as to first the odds that such a law will be widely passed and second, your opinion as to whether it can be enforced once passed.

Thank you
AC


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## Mama (Jan 15, 2009)

buckytom said:


> awww, that's a terribly flawed arguement.
> 
> they didn't even have cell phones in the 70's...
> 
> ...


 
I'm completely with you on this one Buckytom .....did I just say that out loud?


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## jennyema (Jan 15, 2009)

Adillo303 said:


> I really think that it has a lot to do with the individual driving. Some folks can talk and drive safely others cannot. Instead of making law after law and taking all the possibly dangerous toys away from each person till we end up with lots of laws that are not enforceable why not just hold people responsible for their actions. Swerve lanes exhibit intention etc. Get a ticket for thatction. Remember, we are paying legislator's salaries


 
The why have any traffic laws at all?  Just pull over the bad drivers

Why hold someone accountable *after* they kill or injure someone when may be able to prevent it in the first place?

There are studies that claim to show that the ability level of someone driving while on the phone is about the same as someone driving while intoxicated.  We don't allow the latter.  Why should we tolerate the former?


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## buckytom (Jan 15, 2009)

we should tolerate both.

gimme my keys and a beer. i've got calls to make!


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## jennyema (Jan 15, 2009)

Adillo303 said:


> Fascinating discussion - No matter what side of the fence you are on plese post your opinion as to first the odds that such a law will be widely passed and second, your opinion as to whether it can be enforced once passed.
> 
> Thank you
> AC


 
1.  Widely passed.  I doubt it.  States are having a hard enough time banning hand-held phones.

2.  If passed, it's certainly enforceable.  Just like radar detector laws.  They can make it against the law to wear a bluetooth device when driving.


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## quicksilver (Jan 15, 2009)

buckytom said:


> awww, that's a terribly flawed arguement.
> 
> they didn't even have cell phones in the 70's...
> 
> ...


 











_I remember, bt. He was my buddy!_

_But ya know, after 125+ posts, I see no one is going to change anyone's opinion about usage or not, safety or not. Tis ashame! _
_But maybe we'll all remember this thread and the arguments when they next think of doing anything distracting while driving._


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## GB (Jan 15, 2009)

quicksilver said:


> But maybe we'll all remember this thread and the arguments when they next think of doing anything distracting while driving.


I actually did put my phone down today instead of making a call because I thought of this thread.


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## Mama (Jan 15, 2009)

Good for you GB!  Maybe others will too!


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## DramaQueen (Jan 15, 2009)

B'sgirl said:


> You guys are right in pointing out that studies can be biased. I haven't read them so I don't know which are and which aren't. A law like that will always be controversial because even if good studies prove this or that about cell phones, where do you draw the line? No dogs in the car? No children? I am most likely to lose control of my vehicle while trying to calm a hysterical child in the back seat.




*Ahhhh, now you're getting it.  That's exactly the point I was trying to make.  I just came home from having lunch with friends and I had one friend in the car.  She was talking to me and I made the wrong turn going in the opposite direction.  I was distracted by my friends' conversation.  My cell phone was not in my hand.  Not a dangerous move, just distracted enough to make a wrong turn.*


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## quicksilver (Jan 15, 2009)

GB said:


> I actually did put my phone down today instead of making a call because I thought of this thread.


 
_Thanks, GB._


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## DramaQueen (Jan 15, 2009)

jennyema said:


> 1.  Widely passed.  I doubt it.  States are having a hard enough time banning hand-held phones.
> 
> 2.  If passed, it's certainly enforceable.  Just like radar detector laws.  They can make it against the law to wear a bluetooth device when driving.



*Nope, can't enforce it.  Just because I have a bluetooth in my ear doesn't mean I'm on the phone.  Maybe I use it when I pull over or park to make a call.  You have to catch someone in the act of committing a crime before you can enforce it.  *


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## Alix (Jan 15, 2009)

I'm just glad I live in Canada. We get ticked about not having our snow cleared so you can imagine what this would be like here. 

I'm not sure how to state this so it comes out OK so if its garbled it means I edited the crap out of it. Sorry. 

When anyone commissions a study they have a predisposition for what they think they will find. And often that is borne out simply because of the parameters of the study. (Keep in mind I'm stating only my opinion, not fact) I believe that if you go in believing that using a cell phone is worse than talking to a passenger then you may place limits on your study that will make that outcome more likely. I think I'd like to see a study about the effects of a screaming toddler/infant vs bluetooth. Or maybe senile old person in the passenger seat vs bluetooth. LOL. I'm not certain how the studies were conducted, but it seems that there are things that could be tested that would significantly change the outcome. 

Adillo, I suspect that the law will be widely passed eventually. As BT says you have to play to the LCD and unfortunately that means we have a lot of distracted dorky drivers out there. 
Enforcement might be a different story. I think you could enforce handheld usage because if you are seen holding your phone to your ear you are clearly on the phone. Bluetooth...can't prove you were using it unless you get the phone records out to prove it and that could definitely be more $ than its worth.


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## GB (Jan 15, 2009)

DramaQueen said:


> *Nope, can't enforce it.  Just because I have a bluetooth in my ear doesn't mean I'm on the phone.  Maybe I use it when I pull over or park to make a call.  You have to catch someone in the act of committing a crime before you can enforce it.  *


You did not read what Jenny said. 





			
				jennyema said:
			
		

> They can make it against the law to wear a bluetooth device when driving.


If that is the case then they can most certainly enforce it. If they see it in your ear then you get a ticket. They _would_ be catching you in the act of committing a crime.


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## Mama (Jan 15, 2009)

DramaQueen said:


> *Ahhhh, now you're getting it. That's exactly the point I was trying to make. I just came home from having lunch with friends and I had one friend in the car. She was talking to me and I made the wrong turn going in the opposite direction. I was distracted by my friends' conversation. My cell phone was not in my hand. Not a dangerous move, just distracted enough to make a wrong turn.*


 
So, are you saying that since there are already lots of distractions while driving, what's one more?  

The thing is cell phone usage has proven to be a HUGE distraction.  Unlike other distractions that may only last a minute or so, talking on the cell phone often times lasts for the entire time people are in their vehicle.  

My husband drives an 18-wheeler and is constantly complaining about all of the bad drivers on cell phones...pacing the vehicle next to them...drifting in and out of their lanes...going 75 on I-75 one minute and 40 the next...having an arguement and their hands will be flailing in the air...and the list goes on.  He says the worst are women in SUV's on a cell phone.  Unfortunately, I'm inclined to agree with him.


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## Alix (Jan 15, 2009)

Mama, I absolutely believe your husband and agree with him. Can you ask him whether those drivers were using handheld or regular cell phones? I'd bet on the latter. 

GB, do you think they WOULD make it illegal to wear a Bluetooth? That just sounds a bit over the top to me. You would know better than I would though.


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## GB (Jan 15, 2009)

I have no opinion one way or the other if they would make wearing one illegal. I have seen crazier things, but I can't really get into them because of the no politics rule. I will say that say some states made it illegal to have a radar detector in your car though so I do not think it would be out of the realm of possibility to do the same for wearing a bluetooth.


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## Alix (Jan 15, 2009)

Wow.


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## Mama (Jan 15, 2009)

He said that when he sees a driver who is driving erratically, they are usually either:

1) talking on a hand-held cell phone,

or 

2) either talking to themselves or on a hands-free device because he can't necessarily see their ear.

Maybe 3/4 hands-on and 1/4 hands free which is probably because that since it is not required here, most people don't own/use a hands-free device. Doesn't make them less distracting, just not used as much.

It can't be denied that most people who use a cellphone while driving *do not* just talk for a few minutes. Conversations last for* quite* *a while. *It's not like other distractions that usually only last for a few seconds like changing the station on the radio, yelling at the kids in the backseat (I used to threaten to, and on several occassions did, pull the car over...they knew that was _the last thing_ they wanted me to do), taking a sip of coffee...whatever...other distractions ususally only last for a few seconds.  Not that you should ever be distracted from your driving but the fact of the matter is that we live in the real world and *there will be* distractions.  But, if a distraction can be avoided, why not?  When is a conversation more important than the life or property of another person?


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## Mama (Jan 15, 2009)

Alix said:


> GB, do you think they WOULD make it illegal to wear a Bluetooth? That just sounds a bit over the top to me. You would know better than I would though.


 
In the states where it is illegal to use a hand-held device, do you think they can't give you a ticket for holding the phone up to your ear even if you say it's not in use?


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## Alix (Jan 15, 2009)

I'm not in the States Mama, but here I think you would have to prove it was in use. Lots of folks wear their bluetooth constantly.


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## DramaQueen (Jan 15, 2009)

Alix said:


> I'm not in the States Mama, but here I think you would have to prove it was in use. Lots of folks wear their bluetooth constantly.



*Yes they do. I have a relative and 2 friends who wear  theirs all day long.  I only wear mine when I talk to my kids at home because they never let me off the phone, and when I'm driving so I can get the important calls I have to take and not hold a phone.  I am in total agreement that hand held cell phone use in the car -especially those childish idiots who TEXT people while driving - are  a dangerous thing  and should be outlawed. It  places everyone around them in jeopardy for the simple reason that you must drive with only one hand.  Should you lose control of your car you can NEVER manipulate the steering wheel with a cell phone in one hand.  I think the law is going to be hard to enforce but who knows?  People had a holy fit when they decided to take used children's clothing out of the thrift shops; how do you think they'll react to taking away their only means of keeping in touch with their families now that they''ve had a taste of it?

My question once again was this:  What is the difference between talking on a bluetooth alone and talking to passengers in your car?  I never advocated the use of hand held cell phones.  Never did, never will.  That was the point I was trying to make. 

This has really been one interesting discussion.  Lots of different  opinions and thoughts on the subject and nobody got nasty.   *


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## quicksilver (Jan 15, 2009)

quicksilver said:


> I would love to see this law pass.
> Big difference between someone talking in your ear, and one in your space. Ask any parent who's kid is in the room screaming,
> Ma, Ma, Ma.", and one in your ear screaming the same


 


DramaQueen said:


> *My question once again was this: What is the difference between talking on a bluetooth alone and talking to passengers in your car? I never advocated the use of hand held cell phones. Never did, never will. That was the point I was trying to make. *
> 
> *This has really been one interesting discussion. Lots of different opinions and thoughts on the subject and nobody got nasty. *


 
Good night.


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## Mama (Jan 16, 2009)

DramaQueen said:


> *My question once again was this: What is the difference between talking on a bluetooth alone and talking to passengers in your car? I never advocated the use of hand held cell phones. Never did, never will. That was the point I was trying to make. *


 
"It's apparently not what's in your hand or on your head that causes the distraction, it's what's on your mind. And when talking on a cell phone, _your mind is not on the road as much as it should be,_ researchers found."


"Researchers did laboratory experiments using simulators and they reviewed real-world road studies and accident statistics. The conclusion: Drivers talking on cell phones; handheld or hands-free; are four times more likely to have an accident. That's the same level of risk posed by drunk drivers."

"A cell phone is a distraction for drivers, sometimes a deadly one. Six percent of vehicle crashes, claiming 2,600 lives and 12,000 serious injuries a year, is attributable to cell-phone use, according to a separate study."


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## Mama (Jan 16, 2009)

Alix, here in the States they don't have to prove anything to write you a ticket.  If you choose to go to court and fight the ticket, they will just subpoena your cell phone records.


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## expatgirl (Jan 16, 2009)

oh, well, if you can multitask then I'm jealous..........anytime I get phone calls at home I have to turn the TV off........I can't or don't have the ability to listen and concentrate on different voice frequencies.......I will not answer a cell phone if I'm driving......if I see that it's from a family member and worry that there is trouble (all unfounded thankfully, so far) I wait until I can safely pull over.........when I'm driving behind someone who is obviously on a cell phone  or someone behind me is on their cell phone, I try and keep some distance between us and signal when they want to turn by turning on my signal light......so far no back-end collisions.......but it's obvious to me that most of the drivers on their phones slow way down when talking..........and like others I've observed all kinds of distracting behaviors of people behind the wheel.....I hate driving.........


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## Lizannd (Jan 16, 2009)

*I don't have a problem with a new law.  If you are talking*

to someone in the car with you theoretically you also have another pair of eyes to watch the road.  Not possible when you are talking to someone on the phone.  And as far as pulling over on the highway to answer the phone, in New York State you are only allowed to pull off to the side of the highway for an emergency, which is certainly NOT a phone call.  This is only on the highways,  65 miles per hour, so the issue of safely pulling back out into traffic is really not an issue.  I say pass the law and more importantly,  INFORCE IT.


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## GB (Jan 16, 2009)

DramaQueen said:


> especially those childish idiots


Lets please refrain from insults. That goes against our very first rule which is *Be Respectful*.


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## jennyema (Jan 16, 2009)

DramaQueen said:


> *Nope, can't enforce it. Just because I have a bluetooth in my ear doesn't mean I'm on the phone. Maybe I use it when I pull over or park to make a call. You have to catch someone in the act of committing a crime before you can enforce it. *


 

Not so.

The only reason to have a bluetooth device in your ear is to communicate.  Thus, they can outlaw having a bluetooth on your head while driving.


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## jennyema (Jan 16, 2009)

DramaQueen said:


> *My question once again was this: What is the difference between talking on a bluetooth alone and talking to passengers in your car? I never advocated the use of hand held cell phones. Never did, never will. That was the point I was trying to make. **. *


 

I posted the answer to your question twice now. 



*"Likewise, it is easy to equate talking to a friend on a cellphone with talking to a friend in the passenger seat. But a December **report in The Journal of Experimental Psychology: Applied** debunked that notion. Utah researchers put 96 drivers in a simulator, instructing them to drive several miles down the road and pull off at a rest stop. Sometimes the drivers were talking on a hands-free cell phone, and sometimes they were chatting with a friend in the next seat.
Nearly every driver with a passenger found the rest stop, in part because the passenger often acted as an extra set of eyes, alerting the driver to the approaching exit. But among those talking on the cellphone, half missed the exit.

“The paradox is that if the friend is sitting next to you, you drive safer,” Dr. Strayer said. “When you talk to that person on a cellphone, you’re much more likely to be involved in an accident.”*


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## Alix (Jan 16, 2009)

Well I think we've gone around this in every direction and we all have our own feelings about this. No one appears to be changing their opinions because of anyone else's eloquent words so I'm just going to shut this down now. 2 reminders to be polite means the next one could be ugly. Thanks all for being so good about this thread. As a mod I appreciate it.


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