# Poor People Can't Afford Healthy Food?



## GrillingFool

On another forum I belong to, there is a bit of disagreement....

So what do you think?

Poorer people (in the US) are overweight because the cheaper foods they can afford are all unhealthy?

I strongly disagree, but am surprised that there are a fair number who agree....


(gosh I hope this isn't too polarizing of a subject.)


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## bowlingshirt

I can't help but think that fast food has to be part of an unhealthy life style...and fast food isn't that cheap, in comparison to healthy food you can get at your local store.


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## GotGarlic

We had a similar discussion not too long ago, if you want to take a look: http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f104/whats-going-on-with-our-american-diet-36773.html

Oops, I guess it's about a year ago - prices sure have gone up since then. I think it's a valid argument. You sure can't supersize your order at the grocery store for another 50 cents.


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## GrillingFool

This discussion was pretty much revolving around at home made meals, as opposed to
eating out.

(Although the one person did admit that McDonalds was dinner or lunch for the family
at least 2x a week. )


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## Jeekinz

Lazyness=Unhealthy=Expensive

You can easily buy foods in the raw at a decent price and be extremely healthy.  Chicken, roasts, vegetables, rice and potatoes all can be cooked very easily with healthy results.   Some people are just lazy and buy expensive and unhealthy processed foods all the time.


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## GhettoRacingKid

It hink alot of it has to do with fast food being cheap.

I save more money cooking ath oem them doing fast food.


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## suziquzie

The fresh produce can get a little expensive for us sometimes, but where there's a will there's a way...
Figure out how to make what you have work... if it doesn't, change it, learn to make something else.
I won't be feeding my kids hamburger helper to save a buck, thats for sure.


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## Andy M.

Soft drinks are less expensive than milk and kids love them.


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## letscook

I agree with you
One day in the grocery store there was a family ahead of me and they purchsed their grocerys with an adsistance card totaling 115.00 and it was all one dish frozen dinners. there wasn't a fresh veggies anywhere, they did have some frozen veggies, french fries instead of fresh potatoes frozen meat instead of fresh. 

I had purchased a chuck roast , a whole chicken, hamburger, bacon, hotdogs, a couple of pork chops. carrots, lettuce and broccoli and a cabbage , potatoes and some other micell items like milk bread eggs , some condiments etc. and my bill came to 85.00 and change and we will have left overs. 

She will go home and fix her one pot meal and that will be it. i will have items left over for lunches the next day. 

I blame the the school systems as they thought that Home ecomonics was not important to teach. we learned how to plan a weeks worth of meals and the list for grocery shopping - how to budget our money- howto clean, wash clothes iron them. etc. I watch kids loose a button and then they have to throw the shirt away and buy new as know has shown them how to sew on a button or they just don't care.

When i was first married and husband and i starting a business and we had to watch our pennies and we did well and 30 years later still doing well.

I have let enough steam out - it is just a sore subject with me to see the waste and the poor health for no reason.

thanks for letting me bend your ear.


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## suziquzie

letscook said:


> I agree with you
> One day in the grocery store there was a family ahead of me and they purchsed their grocerys with an adsistance card totaling 115.00 and it was all one dish frozen dinners. there wasn't a fresh veggies anywhere, they did have some frozen veggies, french fries instead of fresh potatoes frozen meat instead of fresh.
> 
> I had purchased a chuck roast , a whole chicken, hamburger, bacon, hotdogs, a couple of pork chops. carrots, lettuce and broccoli and a cabbage , potatoes and some other micell items like milk bread eggs , some condiments etc. and my bill came to 85.00 and change and we will have left overs.
> 
> She will go home and fix her one pot meal and that will be it. i will have items left over for lunches the next day.
> 
> *I blame the the school systems* as they thought that Home ecomonics was not important to teach. we learned how to plan a weeks worth of meals and the list for grocery shopping - how to budget our money- howto clean, wash clothes iron them. etc. I watch kids loose a button and then they have to throw the shirt away and buy new as know has shown them how to sew on a button or they just don't care.
> 
> When i was first married and husband and i starting a business and we had to watch our pennies and we did well and 30 years later still doing well.
> 
> I have let enough steam out - it is just a soe subject with me to see the waste and the poor health for no reason.
> 
> thanks for letting me bend your ear.


 
I don't think it's the school systems issue. People have minds of thier own, you cannot teach a complete life in school. Even if they did it wouldn't change much. Food is one thing that is certainly and should always be an individual choice. If YOU want to learn something, teach YOURSELF, there are a myriad of ways to learn (for free) and no excuse not to in this day and age.


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## pacanis

I wouldn't call fast food cheap, but I would say it's convenient. And convenient food fits into any economic bracket, so I'm of the opinion that heavy people get that way because of what they eat, genetics, and not their income. And I know for a fact that a person can eat half a bag of Chips Ahoy and drink a pop more cheaply than even going out for fast food. And feel full afterward.
Don't ask me how I know that 

Hey, where'd my favorite rolleyes smilie go?


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## elaine l

hot dogs are less expensive than chicken, cookies cheaper than fruit, soda than milk or juice.

Some of this country's poor are elderly on a fixed income.  They may not be likely to buy rice, potatoes, meats in bulk when on sale to plan a weeks/months menu.  

I know plenty of well to do folks that seem to have grown quite large on their healthy foods.


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## Yakuta

I struggled as a student and worked two jobs and put myself through school.  I took a simple meal from home (rice or bread with home cooked veggies or beans or chicken or whatever).  Most people who worked in the retail establishment where I worked on the weekends would run to McDonalds or Hardees or Burger King.  I preferred to stick to my home made meals because they were healthy and I could save my money to spend on books and other things I needed to put myself through college. 

If you add up those fast food bills you soon see that you can get a lot more for your buck if you went to the grocery store and picked up veggies (frozen ones are just as good as fresh ones if money is an issue) and meats.  Now fruit is more expensive but even if you skipped it and only added a little bit to your diet if you had other good stuff you would still be fine. 

I agree that it's all about the lifestyle people choose to follow.  Some people are lazy period (nothing to do with being rich or poor).  I have seen people who have upscale kitchens but a meal never comes out of that kitchen in their case they may opt for a restaurant or gourmet meal in place of fast food but the problem remains the same - you still pile on the pounds since to me nothing beats home food where you have control over the ingredients.


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## luvs

look at legumes. 'bout $1- &1.50, & very nuritious.

though other healthy foods, like lean chix, produce, dairyproducts, aren't too cheap.

on another note, there's plenty of pepole who cannot cook, so cheap, processed junk is food.


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## GhettoRacingKid




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## roadfix

Regardless of our economic status, our refidgerators are too big.


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## kitchenelf

elaine l said:


> hot dogs are less expensive than chicken, cookies cheaper than fruit, soda than milk or juice.
> 
> Some of this country's poor are elderly on a fixed income.  They may not be likely to buy rice, potatoes, meats in bulk when on sale to plan a weeks/months menu.
> 
> I know plenty of well to do folks that seem to have grown quite large on their healthy foods.



My thoughts are first that soda is an option.  Don't buy it.  Chicken would just have to be stretched, as other proteins.  There are always beans/legumes as luvs said.  It just wouldn't be growing up with out a few cookies around the house - maybe homemade is cheaper?  I don't know 'cause I don't bake.  Juice can VERY easily be cut almost in half with water and still taste good and actually be much lower in sugar in the process.  I do that myself because I don't want the sugar.  I truly believe most of the issue comes from time management/working moms and dads that just can't manage all the activities AND cook meals too.  That's where I think the problem stems from.  There just aren't enough hours in the day to take kids to school, pick kids up, do activities, full day at work yourself, AND cook a meal.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

I find that unprocessesed food is now percieved as "premium" food, and fetches premium prices at stores all around my home town.  I can purchace pre-packaged food much more cheaply, if I choose carefully.  But I don't like pre-processed foods and don't by them so much.  I like fresh veggies, fruits, and good meats, poultry, fish, etc.  

I don't blame lack of home-ec, or the fast food joints.  I blame the work place.  It is my belief that our "industrious" way of life, and work ethic cause us to place too much emphasis on work.  In my job, I work from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. with a 1 hour, unpaid lunch break.  In an hour, I can hardly find time to get any daytime chores out of the way, and still get food.  Sometimes, due to the job, I have to skip lunch altogether.  And because I'm away from home a minimum of 9 hours a day, not including travel time, this leaves me little time for household chores.  And as I am the head cook, I can't start supper until I get home, so we often don't get to eat until 7:00 p.m. or later.  Then, there are dishes to do, and possible a few other things before settling in for the night.  Teh weekend comes and Saturday is spent getting done around the house what wasn't completed during the week.  Sunday is set aside for religeous reasons.

In European Countries, the work-day is shorter; there is more vacation time, and personal days.  Luch hours are often two hours long, giving the worker time to walk to a bistro, or roadside eatery to enjoy a meal, and then walk back to work.  

There is a movement called "Slow Food" that is strong and growing.  Its precept is that we need to slow down a little, and take time to cook, to enjoy life around us, and not be so constantly worried about maximum production, at all costs.  Though I am not a member of this movement, I do appreciate it and agree that too much emphasis is placed on production, especially when that production usually serves only to fatten the wallets and purses of business owners, and stock holders.  I'm kinda tired of busting my backside to make others rich, and seeing precious little back for my efforts.  But that's the world I live in and am, like most everyone else, a slave to the wage.

We do make choices about who we are, who we want to be, our health, and well being.  But often times, the choices are taken away from us by others who control our time.  Sure, we let them.  It's the American way.

I at one time went to the gym three to 5 times a week, using an hour and one/half for lunch.  This was allowed by our department manager, and allowed me time to incorporate both weight training, and a shower.  I didn't abuse it, and used only the time alloted.  The extra half hour was made up by comming to work a half hour early on those days I worked out.  But my direct supervisor complained so often about me taking this time to work out, stating that my working hours were from 8 to 5, and shouldn't be deviated from, in spite of department policy.  I finally got sick of listening and quit working out.  And due to familial obligations, it's very hard to get to the gym other than that noon time workout.  Thus, I am not as active, or in good shape as I was when I was working out.  And yes, I do blame my imediate supervisor.

The job, for most of us, makes unfair demands on our lives.  And don't even get me started on "on-call" time.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## babetoo

my next door neighbors are a case study against  fast food. about five days a week i see them with take out from one place or another. for their family of four , that is at least 20 dollars a day. that can really add up in a week. i have watched the young boy get fatter and fatter. he is not obese but certainly headed in that direction. 

i shudder to think of the salt , and fat they consume. it is easier to cook healthy for a family of four than one person, as i do. 

i still eat very healthy most of the time. with me it is more cooking it than price. so frozen vegs. for me. once in a while delivered pizza. the rest is mostly chicken from a bulk bag of thighs or breasts. a lot of rice and frozen veg. 

it can be done less expensively for most people. 

babe


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## kitchenelf

GhettoRacingKid said:


>



While cute that doesn't help with a solution.


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## Alix

I absolutely believe that many people with either low or fixed income get heavy because crap food is cheaper. Allow me to share one story.

When we visited Orlando in 2005 I went to purchase breakfast for the 4 of us. Buying yogurt, fresh fruit and cereal as we are accustomed to having cost me somewhere in the neighbourhood of $20+. I could have bought bought HUGE plates of eggs, hashbrowns and either bacon or sausage and toast for $2.99/plate. ONE of those plates would have fed at least 2 of us, maybe 3. Now admittedly that is in a circumstance of vacation and having to take what is available, but the difference is rather staggering. 

I also believe that many poor folks don't understand what good food choices are. I'm generalizing of course, but if you can buy a meal for under $5 at a fast food joint you are likely going to do that rather than buy the ingredients for meals. I don't think it is so much laziness as it is lack of education.


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## Constance

A lot of the cheaper foods are starchy things, and poor people have to make meat go as far as they can, so it's often mixed with pasta or rice. But it's quite possible to feed your family healthy balanced meals on a tight budget. Canned and plain frozen vegetables are pretty cheap at a box store, and studies have proven they have just as much nutrition as the fresh produce. 

I, also, have stood in line behind people using food stamps, and seen carts filled with chips, gooey sweets, sodas, etc. I think part of it is lack of education, and wish that the government provided some training to go with the food stamps.


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## Dina

GrillingFool said:


> On another forum I belong to, there is a bit of disagreement....
> 
> So what do you think?
> 
> Poorer people (in the US) are overweight because the cheaper foods they can afford are all unhealthy?
> 
> I strongly disagree, but am surprised that there are a fair number who agree....
> 
> 
> (gosh I hope this isn't too polarizing of a subject.)


I disagree that they're overweight because of cheaper foods they consume. They are actually getting the cheaper stuff (as in quality). I see lots of people's carts at the grocery store with too much junk food and honestly, they are what they eat. Fast food may sound cheap too but it's not that cheap anymore. I think anyone could be better of with a $5 salad with chicken than a combo meal with fries, greasy burger or fried, breaded chicken sandwich and soda. It's yummy once in a while and I don't see a problem with treating oneself on ocassion. A lot of it is ignorance too.


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## bethzaring

Constance said:


> I, also, have stood in line behind people using food stamps, and seen carts filled with chips, gooey sweets, sodas, etc. I think part of it is lack of education, and wish that the government provided some training to go with the food stamps.


 
They do, it is called the EFNEP program, the Expanded Food and Nutrition Education Program. I used to work for it. I worked in the homes of low income families teaching them grocery shopping skills, gardening, canning, menu planning and meal preparation. Pres. Reagan cut the funding, congress authorized it but Reagan cut it out, of rural areas. It still exists in cities. It is a very good program. From what I learned from that experience, the problem is lack of education, not laziness. These people do not have a clue, don't know where to look for a solution, are barely aware of the problem.

http://www.csrees.usda.gov/nea/food/efnep/about.html


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## luvs

food stamps don't bear on food choices. i know cause i get them. i'm also on social security. does that make me lazy, uneducated, or obese...
i've so much to spend on food they actually CUT my food stamps cause i didn't use my card fer 3 months, then gave me near $700 re-payment!!
i'm well educated, went to culinary school & plan to return in 2 months, & my kitchens full of healthy foods & impulse items like mussels & crab, steaks & pasta, that likely won't tack too much onto me. i only weight 140 pounds on a heavy day, & i'm taller than many other gals.
so, when'd they make being me into being lazy, obese, & undereducated...
& moreover, food stamps don't mean you're poor.... i spend $$$ like other people.
& so, i like pop (although usually caffiene-free, diet pop) & buy an occasional jar of premade sauce.
would you seriously judge someone had you not seen their food stamp card...
& sorry, i'm ranting now, 'cept weho gives 2 dagnabbits if someone IS obese, huh. obese people i know 'er great people!


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## Jeekinz

elaine l said:


> hot dogs are less expensive than chicken, cookies cheaper than fruit, soda than milk or juice.
> 
> Some of this country's poor are elderly on a fixed income. They may not be likely to buy rice, potatoes, meats in bulk when on sale to plan a weeks/months menu.
> 
> I know plenty of well to do folks that seem to have grown quite large on their healthy foods.


 
Hotdogs are cheaper than chicken?  Not price per pound.  A regular pack of hotdogs at my store is about $5-6, a whole frier choicken is like $3-4 with ALOT more meat.  Don't forget to add in the buns to the hotdog prices either.


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## jpmcgrew

Rich or poor it all depends on what you ate when you were young, next is a basic knowledge about nutrition whether you learn it from your parents or school next is liking to eat healthy foods if you didn't eat them as kid you might not like them when you are older next after that you must know how to cook these foods and make them taste good a lot of people do not and finally you need to know how to buy in bulk and on sale if you are on a budget or food stamps. 
I had a friend that was on food stamps and when she got them she would blow it on steak, avocados, strawberries etc and have nothing at all at the end of the month. I taught her you can have a little of the expensive stuff for a treat but the rest you must buy on sale like family size cut up chicken and other meats that you can separate and freeze, canned vegetables, soups, beans, mac and cheese etc. I showed her how to take a frozen turkey thigh/leg and make a great stew with canned tomatoes,potatoes, onions etc. She didn't really know how to cook so that meant she also did not know how to shop for real food and good bargains. I also tried to teach her not to blow it all at once so she can go and buy a fresh head of lettuce a tomato etc all through the month. 
Honestly I doubt much sank in her little brain as she would get pregnant 3 times with the father no where in sight after. Don't know what happened to her since but I really hope she is OK. Looking back I think she was severely depressed which made her some what incapable to help her self.


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## Alix

luvs, I believe you have misread folks comments. Give it another look. Folks aren't saying all those who use food stamps are eating poorly, rather they are offering their observations. 

I'm glad to see that many folks agree that education is more to blame than anything else. 

You have to consider how filling meals are too. Most people will head for a higher carb content meal to feel satisfied more quickly. And in fast food places that means fries, not a salad.


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## GotGarlic

luvs said:


> food stamps don't bear on food choices. i know cause i get them. i'm also on social security. does that make me lazy, uneducated, or obese...



No, luvs, it doesn't. Generalizations don't apply to every individual, but that doesn't make them false, either.



luvs said:


> i've so much to spend on food they actually CUT my food stamps cause i didn't use my card fer 3 months, then gave me near $700 re-payment!!
> i'm well educated, went to culinary school & plan to return in 2 months, & my kitchens full of healthy foods & impulse items like mussels & crab, steaks & pasta, that likely won't tack too much onto me. i only weight 140 pounds on a heavy day, & i'm taller than many other gals.



The original question was, are poorer people overweight because the cheaper foods they can buy are unhealthy? Obviously, if you have a culinary-school education, you have a lot more knowledge about food preparation to draw from than the average person on food stamps.



luvs said:


> so, when'd they make being me into being lazy, obese, & undereducated...
> & moreover, food stamps don't mean you're poor.... i spend $$$ like other people.



Being poor doesn't mean someone has no money at all - just that they don't make enough to live on without government help.



luvs said:


> & so, i like pop (although usually caffiene-free, diet pop) & buy an occasional jar of premade sauce.
> would you seriously judge someone had you not seen their food stamp card...
> & sorry, i'm ranting now, 'cept weho gives 2 dagnabbits if someone IS obese, huh. obese people i know 'er great people!



It's not a question of whether or not obese people are good people or not. It's a matter of health. Being obese puts people at high risk for a lot of very difficult, painful, expensive health problems, including heart attacks, strokes and diabetes. And more and more people in the U.S. are too overweight. I do believe that the relatively low cost, and low energy output needed, of buying fast food or prepared grocery-store foods has a lot to do with the obesity problem, as well as portion sizes having grown out of control.


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## GB

I have not read through the whole thread so forgive me if I am repeating anything.

I think poor people can afford to buy healthy food if they chose to. Sure lots of junk is cheap, but plenty of good healthy food is cheap too. Rice, beans, lentils, flour, grains, etc. These are all things that cost very little. Supplement that is less expensive cuts of meat (and you do not need a lot). In climates where it is possible some people can grow their own veggies. You can make your own bread. 

Sure soda might be cheaper than milk, but water is cheaper than soda so there is not reason you HAVE to buy soda if you want to save money.


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## Constance

bethzaring said:


> They do, it is called the EFNEP program, the Expanded Food and Nutrition Education Program. I used to work for it. I worked in the homes of low income families teaching them grocery shopping skills, gardening, canning, menu planning and meal preparation. Pres. Reagan cut the funding, congress authorized it but Reagan cut it out, of rural areas. It still exists in cities. It is a very good program. From what I learned from that experience, the problem is lack of education, not laziness. These people do not have a clue, don't know where to look for a solution, are barely aware of the problem.
> 
> About EFNEP



Beth, you are mostly right, but we do have some 4th generation people here who laugh at the rest of us for going to work. Sometimes laziness IS a factor. We are what we are.


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## SteveyBear

I blame the trends of our culture in general for most people's poor standards of living and eating.

I eat 21 meals a week, usually some snacks in between those meals. I shop at Whole Foods Market every Sunday and buy 21 meals worth of food and some snack type stuff, and have yet to spend more than $30 on any given Sunday. Of course, that's just for me and not a family of people, but I do believe with a little time and research, any low-income family can be healthily fed.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

I have read every post in this thread.  I must say, that in my opinion, every post has valid points.  My take from this, including my own post, is that there are good, healthy foods that are inexpensive.  And there are a host of bad foods that are inexpensive also.  Likewise, there are good and bad foods that are expensive.  I believe that we all can agree that there are a host of factors that create obesity, including, but by no means limited to, genetics, eating what we grew up with (cultural infuences), lack of education concerning nutrition, &/or cooking skills, time constraints, desire to do work, laziness, and don't forget things like emotional cues, the desire to treat oneself, or eat everything on the plate at that restaurant that serves overly large portions (I paid for it and by golly I'm gonna eat it!), availablilty of wholesome foods, etc.

The original question was, does the cost of quality food create obesity in poor people.  I would say that it contributes, but qualify that with the observation and knowledge that all good foods are not expensive.  But to utilize that good and inexpensive food requires effort, education, and time, not to mention desire to improve.  There are those, who if given the education, time, and availability, would improve their eating habits.  There are those who won't.  In all societies, there are a host of people of every disposition.  And often enough, we are our own worst enemies.  I used to laugh at the idea of eating all whole grains, and staying away from highly processed and starchy foods, with little nutritional value.  Did I do it because I was lazy?  No.  I wasn't used to eating a healthier diet.  Though the diet I lived on while growing up was fairly sound, with lots almost exclusively home cooked meals, I saw nothing wrong with fast food, junk food in moderation (not as moderate as now), and eating as much as I could eat.  I was skinny, full of energy, couldn't gain a pound to save my life, and in exceptionally good shape.  I was also uneducated about good nutrition and was just learning how to cook.

I would never have given my family bad food intentionally.  I loved them far too much.  Over the past thirty years, I have grown heavier, and developed diabetes when I hit forty years of age.  I guess that's when my nutritional education really started.  Before then, I didn't think I needed to know more about food other than how to make it taste great.  I know how to make the most deliscious, unhealthy food you can imagine.  And once in a great while, I'll still make an ultra-rich desert, or eat a fatty chunk of grilled steak.  But those times are the exception now, rather than the rule.

There are no pat answers.  There are too many reasons that people gain weight, including medical conditions.  Arguing about such a subject is foolishness.  After all, the "experts" have been arguing about nutriton as long as I've been alive, and longer.  And they still don't have all of the answers.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## GB

SteveyBear said:


> I blame the trends of our culture in general for most people's poor standards of living and eating.
> 
> I eat 21 meals a week, usually some snacks in between those meals. I shop at Whole Foods Market every Sunday and buy 21 meals worth of food and some snack type stuff, and have yet to spend more than $30 on any given Sunday. Of course, that's just for me and not a family of people, but I do believe with a little time and research, any low-income family can be healthily fed.



You buy 21 meals worth of food at Whole Foods for under $30? Can you share what it is you buy? I find Whole foods to be very expensive. I would love to know how you can get so much for so little there.


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## SteveyBear

Well, make no mistake about it, the meals I eat aren't exactly big, but they are enough to to give my body exactly what it needs to operate. So I'll buy a bag of linguine with a jar of whatever sauce I'm in the mood for and that's enough for 7 dinners for me. One of their big containers of granola lasts me more than a week, and that usually serves me for breakfast, and I'll take that with some rice milk. Throw in a couple of cans of soup and some cold cuts, and that rounds out my 21 meals. The snacks are usually just some of the dried fruits they have.


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## babetoo

while your diet may work for you. i would find it very boring. and i question if that is a nutrient rich menu.  it can be done without spending a fortune. i still believe it is harder to do inexpensive meals for one person than a family.frankly i don't want to eat the same thing five days in a row. also cooking is a hobby of mine. part of that is finding cheaper, healthy ways for me to eat. could i cut something?  you bet. i do spend more than i need to but want a really special meal once in awhile. so i cook it, instead of eating out to get it. everyone has a different take on this question. i do think we need home eco. in high schools. amazing to me that my grandkids have no idea what a balanced diet is. one grandson lives on junk food, literaly. he is over weight and does not have much energy. i had home ec. in high school so at least knew where to begin when i began to cook for a family.                                                          babe


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## Dave Hutchins

I have been fat since I was a young child, when in six grade I checked in at 20# and my mother and dad all ways had a garden and she canned and froze till the pantry was ready to burst and the freezer was full of health food.  I do not buy any fast food or ready to eat food.  I was trained as a classical cook and every thing comes from scratch and I still do.  As a child we ate what ever come off the critter from snout to tail litterly.  My genitic make up come from a long line of fat folks.  To make my point I cook from scratch every day watch my carbs and still weigh 300# and I eat only one meal a day.   Go Figure


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## SteveyBear

babetoo said:


> while your diet may work for you. i would find it very boring.


 
Boring as it may be, the point is that one can eat healthily without putting a major dent in their wallet.


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## deelady

I would say eating healthy on a budget can be tricky but its not impossible. You have to be smart with your shopping and think and plan ahead. When I first changed my eating habbits and went out the first time to buy all fresh fruits, veggies, healthy snacks,and leaner cuts of meat, my jaw dropped at the total price for barely a weeks worth of food! But as time went on I learned some tricks on keeping my eyes open for deals, who has what with better prices and substituting i.e. buying frozen fruits for smoothies instead of fresh...just as healthy but MUCH cheaper and it wont go bad if I don't make it right away! So like I said ,bottom line, you need to be smart about it and not be afraid to do a little work to look around and plan.

Just my 2 cents!


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## Mama

*Poor People Can't Afford Healthy Food?*   That's just silly.  I know a lot of fat, unhealthy rich people!


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## Fisher's Mom

This is such a complex topic for discussion with so many variables and potential for misunderstanding. There are so many valid points that have been made so I'll add my $.02 also.

There are many other costs in meal preparation besides the cost of the food itself. At a minimum, a stove of some sort and a fridge of some sort, cooking utensils, running water for prep and clean-up, gas or electricity for the stove and fridge, plus transportation to a grocery store. Believe me, there are many, many people who don't always have access to those basic things reliably.

Others have mentioned that working is an issue too. Many people here in San Antonio work a full 8 or 9 hour day plus another 1-3 hours in transit via public transportation. Then they must tend to household chores and attention to children and homework and laundry, just like everyone else. If you happen to be a single parent, there is no one else to take up any of the slack. Something's gotta give and often, it's home cooked meals.

Another thing to look at is that poor parents love their children as much as any other parents. They want to make them happy and do special things for them, too. But often, things like going out to a movie or a special toy or a new outfit are out of reach financially. But a 99 cent burger or fries isn't. Long term, of course, it contributes to obesity and poor health, but it's understandable that fast food can become a symbol of love for poor parents.

I'm not disagreeing with anyone here - I just wanted to bring up some further issues I think are relevant to the topic. I think this is a great discussion and with the direction the economy is going in the US right now, it's very timely.


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## Claire

No matter how you look at it, I can buy ramen noodles for as little as a dime, sometimes a nickel, a package.  Zilch nutrition, just calories.  Yes, of course a poor family can be healthily fed, but it takes a little more work, knowledge, research.  Heaven knows my mom raised four healthy, strapping gals on a sergeant's pay, so I learned from the master.  But look at the price of fresh produce in the middle of the winter in a 4-seasons climate.  You can't do it for a dime for a meal for one.  And don't forget; unlike Mom, many people are single parents who are not home for 50 or so hours a week.  It is more expensive to live healthy; very worth it, but not cheap.


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## Claire

P.S.  When I was young and broke (thank heaven I had the wisdom to not have children by my first husband!) I would buy a pound of chicken livers for $.99 and a head of cabbage for less.  I could live on that for the better part of the week, with the bonus of feeding my cat!


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## Jeekinz

GB said:


> Sure soda might be cheaper than milk, but water is cheaper than soda so there is not reason you HAVE to buy soda if you want to save money.


 
Add a couple tea bags and you have iced tea.


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## jabbur

Fisher's Mom brought up some valid points.  In my city, the poorest part of town has no grocery store, only convience stores.  The city has tried to get a major chain store to open in the area by offering incentives without success.  Most of the people that live there rely on public transportation and it can take them 30-45 mins on a bus to get to the closest grocery store then they have to carry the food back home on the bus which may limit what they buy.  Sometimes they may take a taxi to the store to get more than they can carry but the cost will cut into what they can spend on food.


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## BreezyCooking

The very idea that "poor people can't afford healthy food" has to be one of the most inaccurate things I've every heard.  What a crock!!  (Oh, & hot dogs definitely do NOT cost less than chicken, nor do cookies cost less than fruit, etc., etc.  That's just plain unsupported nonsense.)

"Poor" (whether jobless, on a fixed income, etc., etc.) people have the same options as everyone else as far as healthy eating.  Keys being education as to what's healthy, not being so lazy that all one wants to do is defrost & eat, & most important of all, WANTING to eat healthy.

What pisses me off is that all the "helpful" people in our immediate area aren't really all that helpful.  Our local food pantry actually advertises what they want to "showcase" as "needs for the week" as far as donations.  These "needs" are always things like "Hamburger Helper", boxed Mac & Cheese, etc., etc.  They don't accept any "fresh" food, which sure as heck isn't really helping anyone besides filling their tummies with sodium/fat-rich garbage.  We make regular food donations - but never any of that stuff, regardless of what they request.  I always bring rice, bagged dried beans, whole-wheat pasta & egg noodles, low-sodium jarred & canned pasta sauces, canned tuna, dried herbs/spices - whatever non-fresh items I can find that are suitable to make a good meal that's as non-processed as possible.  Frankly, without even touching fresh produce & meats, I can fill a shopping cart full of relatively healthy eating that will make a number of different meals for around $50.  One just has to take the time to THINK about the possibilities.

So don't tell me "poor" (which is a very relative term in itself) people can't afford healthy food.


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## Alix

Breezy, your opinion is your own, but it isn't a "crock" that folks can't afford healthier food. 

Again, I'm going to reiterate that if you don't KNOW what you are consuming is unhealthy, why would you change anything? Education is key. 

Fishers Mom, you are so right about so many things. Folks who don't have much have different challenges and not having all the essentials for meal prep are just a few. I would also add transportation issues and perhaps challenges with managing their money and budgeting. If you can't afford a car you may have to be on a bus for a very long time with your piles of groceries. Just easier to feed the kids at the corner McD's. Their tummies are filled...fast.

I'm not saying poor people are dumb, what I am saying is that often those who don't have money have organic reasons that they have difficulty managing money and planning ahead. FASD, drug use, persistent physical abuse...all these things contribute to brain damage. 

OK, sorry, took that slightly off topic, but I'm just trying to clarify my point. 
FM, loved your post. Very clear and concise reasoning.


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## BreezyCooking

Alix - I was addressing the original point/topic heading that "poor people *can't* *afford *healthy food",  as in *monetarily*.  Which is incorrect - aka crock.  It's not that they can't afford it monetarily, it's just, as you & others have stated, due to other aspects of their lives - education, desire, etc. - they choose not to.  Not necessarily because they can't do it on their budgets.  If other issues could be resolved, I most decidedly believe that they can do it.  Their choice &/or community services' choice to help teach them.

As far as groceries on a bus - a couple of chickens or packages of ground turkey & some fresh vegetables can easily take up the exact same amount of weight/space as processed zero-nutrient food.  Again - the education/desire-to-eat-healthy card in play (or not).


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## Alix

> Poorer people (in the US) are overweight because the cheaper foods they can afford are all unhealthy?


I guess its all in the interpretation of this statement isn't it? I can see your point. I think everyone here can relate to shopping healthy on a budget. We even have specific fora dedicated to that very subject. However, I think many folks are addressing WHY poorer people buy unhealthy/cheap food. I think that is a very logical progression. I'd bet that many of the folks in the category we are talking about don't know Discuss Cooking exists because they can't afford a computer or internet access. Its easy to make statements from this side of the fence if you haven't walked on the other side. I'm going to reiterate my first post. The cheap alternative was extremely unhealthy, but filling and large. The healthy choices to feed us cost roughly 3-4x as much. 

As for shopping and carrying stuff on a bus. I've done it, and I've done it with little kids in tow. Its not impossible, but it sure aint easy. I'm thankful I didn't have to do it on a regular basis because I can tell you right now I WOULDN'T.  I could juggle a diaper bag, a baby, and 4 bags of groceries and manage a 3rd floor walk up, but it wasn't fun and I can see being exhausted enough every day to just stop for a quick fast food meal. When you weigh tired against most anything else tired usually wins.


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## Dina

I think that even people who can afford the healthier stuff as well as upscale restaurants are still overweight.  It all boils down to HOW MUCH you put into your mouth and HOW MUCH you move your body.


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## kitchenelf

Dina said:


> I think that even people who can afford the healthier stuff as well as upscale restaurants are still overweight.  It all boils down to HOW MUCH you put into your mouth and HOW MUCH you move your body.



Your point is valid...I don't think we're talking about losing weight here though.

I will have to agree with a lot of what was said after me.  Alix, I completely agree with everything you have said and can see how I had the totally wrong socio-economic group in my head.  Not everyone has working refrigerators, working stoves, working ovens, a car, etc., etc.   I'm pretty embarrassed that I didn't see the bigger picture, actually.


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## jpmcgrew

Having money or not doesn't change what your taste buds like. I'm not a small person but I have a friend who is a big girl she drinks a ton of soda when she came to visit for three days she brought three cases of soda that is a lot of calories for nothing. I had her try my iced green tea with mango 0 calories I love this tea it's very flavorful at least to me, she on the other hand didn't like it one bit and thought it was bland tasting. 
She doesn't know how to cook and favors Mc Donalds and yet she is completely aware it's not good for her. She doesn't even know her measurements for cooking. I gave her a book Betty Crockers Fix it Fast this book uses maybe 5-6 ingredients alot of it already cooked such as frozen vegetables and just buying a rotisserie chicken or some meat etc the directions are so simple.    
So it seems having money or not if you never ate healthy before or don't know how to cook you are doomed. When I was a kid soda was a once a week treat we didn't even have Kool Aid but man did I crave the stuff. No sweet cereals no chips, cookies etc. We were really poor so if I wanted something sweet I had to make it my self like pound cake or oatmeal cookies. We had oatmeal or Cream of Wheat with canned peaches or apple sauce. Being German my mother had a good handle on what was healthy, of course I thought it sucked cuz I knew all my friends ate Captain Crunch on saturday cartoon morning and I didn't
I think another thing is a lot of people just don't want to listen to kids screaming for a Happy Meal, pizza etc else instead of having a good square meal with vegetables etc. I belive a lot of parent now a days also give their kids too many choices by asking them what they want to eat, most will naturally choose garbage. When I was a kid nobody asked me what I wanted to eat I ate what was put in front of me or I didn't eat. "tough luck" she used to say.


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## GB

When I was a kid jpmcgrew, we had soda only when guests came over or occasionally when we went out to eat which was not very often. At home we had water or orange juice. We almost never had cookies or sugary sweets in the house. The only time was when we had a babysitter and my parents would buy things like that for the sitter. 
Fast food was a treat we got _maybe_ 4 times a year.

My daughter is one of two kids in her entire school who has never had McDonalds. We see no reason to introduce it to her. We know that we can not keep her from it forever, but she enjoys healthy food right now and that is what we will continue to encourage.

As others have said, it is my opinion that healthy eating can be accomplished for folks who do not have a lot of money. It may not always be easy and it may not happen ever day, but McDonalds every day does not have to be the answer.


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## PattY1

Goodweed of the North said:


> I have read every post in this thread. I must say, that in my opinion, every post has valid points. My take from this, including my own post, is that there are good, healthy foods that are inexpensive. And there are a host of bad foods that are inexpensive also. Likewise, there are good and bad foods that are expensive. I believe that we all can agree that there are a host of factors that create obesity, including, but by no means limited to, genetics, eating what we grew up with (cultural infuences), lack of education concerning nutrition, &/or cooking skills, time constraints, desire to do work, laziness, and don't forget things like emotional cues, the desire to treat oneself, or eat everything on the plate at that restaurant that serves overly large portions (I paid for it and by golly I'm gonna eat it!), availablilty of wholesome foods, etc.
> 
> The original question was, does the cost of quality food create obesity in poor people. I would say that it contributes, but qualify that with the observation and knowledge that all good foods are not expensive. But to utilize that good and inexpensive food requires effort, education, and time, not to mention desire to improve. There are those, who if given the education, time, and availability, would improve their eating habits. There are those who won't. In all societies, there are a host of people of every disposition. And often enough, we are our own worst enemies. I used to laugh at the idea of eating all whole grains, and staying away from highly processed and starchy foods, with little nutritional value. Did I do it because I was lazy? No. I wasn't used to eating a healthier diet. Though the diet I lived on while growing up was fairly sound, with lots almost exclusively home cooked meals, I saw nothing wrong with fast food, junk food in moderation (not as moderate as now), and eating as much as I could eat. I was skinny, full of energy, couldn't gain a pound to save my life, and in exceptionally good shape. I was also uneducated about good nutrition and was just learning how to cook.
> 
> I would never have given my family bad food intentionally. I loved them far too much. Over the past thirty years, I have grown heavier, and developed diabetes when I hit forty years of age. I guess that's when my nutritional education really started. Before then, I didn't think I needed to know more about food other than how to make it taste great. I know how to make the most deliscious, unhealthy food you can imagine. And once in a great while, I'll still make an ultra-rich desert, or eat a fatty chunk of grilled steak. But those times are the exception now, rather than the rule.
> 
> There are no pat answers. There are too many reasons that people gain weight, including medical conditions. Arguing about such a subject is foolishness. After all, the "experts" have been arguing about nutriton as long as I've been alive, and longer. And they still don't have all of the answers.
> 
> Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


 

Well put. I haven't finished reading this thread yet, but here is my .02.
Some comments state buying meat, fruit, fresh veggies sensibly and cheaper. But no one has mentioned the high price of the spices and oils that is needed to make a good meal. The price of the ever precious EVOO is ridiculous. So, yes it is cheaper to buy prepackaged meals, let alone takes less time. I could go on, but will stop here.


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## GB

PattY1 said:


> Well put. I haven't finished reading this thread yet, but here is my .02.
> Some comments state buying meat, fruit, fresh veggies sensibly and cheaper. But no one has mentioned the high price of the spices and oils that is needed to make a good meal. The price of the ever precious EVOO is ridiculous. So, yes it is cheaper to buy prepackaged meals, let alone takes less time. I could go on, but will stop here.


EVOO and spices are not requirements for cooking though. You can cook just fine with much less expensive oils or fats and spices as simple as salt and pepper.


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## Alix

This brings us around once again to the education factor. 

Has anyone watched the Supernanny episode where the single dad had two young boys? He was TRYING to cook healthy, but had no clue what was going on. His older son was skinny but had some astronomically high cholesterol reading (we measure it differently here, but I think the number was 180 or 280 or something) for a 50 year old and he was only 11. The younger boy was heavy and wanted only crap food. 

This dad had a limited budget, but didn't KNOW what to do. They went out to a U Pick place and got to pick their own veggies and fruit and the kids were tickled to try that stuff once they were a part of it. With some help, Dad was able to plan simple healthy meals and stock their pantry with healthier options. 

These weren't the poorest folks, but $ was limited. They simply didn't KNOW what to do. 

And no argument that there are folks out there with both money and education who still make poor choices. Heck, which one of us doesn't eat a doughnut now and again? Some of us do it for other reasons, some folks are empty emotionally and fill with food. But lets not go there. 

Still, when you think you are doing right by your kids by feeding them chicken nuggets (meat), fries (potato), and a milkshake (dairy) its because you don't have all the info. 

And I agree, you can eat healthy on a limited budget, but it isn't easy.


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## VeraBlue

The wording is a bit harsh, but I believe it's not too inaccurate a statement.  People with lower incomes will have a harder time presenting a balanced, nutritious meal when vegetables, fish, chicken, beef, bread, eggs, milk, fruit, cheese have seen price increases of over 17% in the past year.  If a family of 4 only has a $15 dollar dinner budget, it's a lot easire to hit the dollar menu at McDonalds than it is to prepare a meal hitting all the food groups.  
$15 a dinner is $130 a week...and that's just dinner.  They still need breakfast and lunch, personal items like tampons, toothpaste, household items like detergent and toilet paper...  and before you know it, the food shopping bill can exceed $250 each week.  
Unfortunately, I know that many people in the food service industry, working 8 hour days barely bring home more than $400 a week.  That doesn't leave a lot for rent/mortgage, utilities, clothing, medical expenses.

A dinner deal is 2 pizzas and a 2-litre coke for $14.99.  How can you pass that up?   You can get 8 burgers, a couple of fries and some nuggets for $15.  Apples cost $2.49 a pound, and you may get 4, but probably 3.  A bag of Dorritos on sale is also $2.49, you get less....but most kids want that more.

It's unfortunate, but I believe that financial status plays an important role in weight.

You don't see too many overweight rich kids...  They come home from school and participate in sports programs and other activities.  All those activities cost money.  Kids from struggling families don't have that kind of disposable income, and many schools eliminate or curb physical fitness due to budget cuts.


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## Alix

Vera, that is a much more accurate picture of what I was trying to say. Thanks.


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## GhettoRacingKid

Vera,

I agree with you on that but alot of school have the sports and other after school activities for no cost since its in the school budget.

I think alot of it has to do with the fact that there are alot fo 2 income house holds which doesnt allow much time for the kids to be pickedu p from practice or most importantly a ncie heathly well balance meal to be prepared.

after working 8 hours plus commuting time not many parents want to put all the effort into making a meal when they have other faster easier and in their minds cheaper solutions.


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## Alix

GRK, you are right on many counts but lets remember that we are supposed to be talking about families where there is likely only one income and not a very large one either. Time and energy are definite factors.


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## GhettoRacingKid

But I dont think there are many single income homes now a days.  

From my observing on this thread and board I think alot of the people who cook healthier have a better knowledge of cooking and all that is involved with it.  

It could come down to just needing to learn how to cook better and how to use cheap ingredints that are in season to make healthy flavorful meals.

I know before I really got into the cooking thing i used to eat garbage and alot of it.

Now I eat alot of smaller tastier meals that are cheaper that are pretty healthy.

I just got a problem with snacking on the bad stuff.


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## BreezyCooking

> But I dont think there are many single income homes now a days.


 
You're kidding, right?  Not many single moms or single dads or single elderly folks where you are in good old Long Island?  (By the way, I was born & raised there.)  You're just not looking hard enough.


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## GhettoRacingKid

there are single people and alot of them are struggling to get by.

Long island I think is a special case because alot of people have the cash.  

look at the taxes, housing costs and etc...  

Where about on good old LI?


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## Alix

> From my observing on this thread and board I think alot of the people who cook healthier have a better knowledge of cooking and all that is involved with it.



But not everyone has this opportunity.


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## BreezyCooking

I'm from Setauket & my husband is from St. James.  And yes, I know - both big-money areas now, but not so much when we were growing up there.

Family is still there & we keep up with area news, but even in the "high rent" areas of the East End where we spent lots of our time there are many people struggling these days.  Lord - just look at the plight of the fishermen alone.  Not to mention the elderly.  Not the "rich" elderly - the normal fixed-income elderly.


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## VeraBlue

GhettoRacingKid said:


> Vera,
> 
> I agree with you on that but alot of school have the sports and other after school activities for no cost since its in the school budget.
> 
> .



Not trying to make this a 'school budget' tangent...and perhaps things on Long Island are different...but in most urban areas, where incomes tend to be lower, most schools haven't seen a budget pass since the 70s.  When I was growing up, we had art, music, library, home ec, shop, and gym, twice a week each.  Schools still have libraries, but you don't get classes on how to use them any longer.  Art, music, home ec and shop are all gone.  Gym, once every day, is now once a week.   After school programs are babysitting programs, not physical fitness programs, and you have to pay a hefty amount of money to utilize them.    The sports programs like football, soccer, cheerleading, softball, baseball, hockey....all cost money to participate, and then the shoes and other equipment is extra.   Ever price a pair of ballet shoes for a 6 year old?  $85 and they'll only fit for 5 months, at best.The school for ballet is in the neighbourhood of $125 per month, or 4 lessons.  The recital?  $500 for the costumes and you don't get free tickets, either.  In fact, they want you to help then 'fund raise' by hitting up the rest of your family to come see strangers kids perform, usually badly.    Like I said, things in affluent suburban towns may still have 'free' after school programs, but those aren't the people this thread was really about.

Sorry for derailing the train....back to your regularly scheduled topic.


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## GhettoRacingKid

this is very very true.  A good culinary education is tough on the wallet and very intimidating if you try to learn with out school or come from a well culianry knowledged family

I know my family are horrible cooks and barely knew enough to get by.  but the family was broke as mcdonalds was actually a treat for us.  we had simple easy meals.  always had the protein, starch and veggie.

There are books and what not out there that are avaiable at a local library to learn how to cook healthy on a small budget.


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## Fisher's Mom

VeraBlue said:


> The wording is a bit harsh, but I believe it's not too inaccurate a statement.  People with lower incomes will have a harder time presenting a balanced, nutritious meal when vegetables, fish, chicken, beef, bread, eggs, milk, fruit, cheese have seen price increases of over 17% in the past year.  If a family of 4 only has a $15 dollar dinner budget, it's a lot easire to hit the dollar menu at McDonalds than it is to prepare a meal hitting all the food groups.
> $15 a dinner is $130 a week...and that's just dinner.  They still need breakfast and lunch, personal items like tampons, toothpaste, household items like detergent and toilet paper...  and before you know it, the food shopping bill can exceed $250 each week.
> Unfortunately, I know that many people in the food service industry, working 8 hour days barely bring home more than $400 a week.  That doesn't leave a lot for rent/mortgage, utilities, clothing, medical expenses.
> 
> A dinner deal is 2 pizzas and a 2-litre coke for $14.99.  How can you pass that up?   You can get 8 burgers, a couple of fries and some nuggets for $15.  Apples cost $2.49 a pound, and you may get 4, but probably 3.  A bag of Dorritos on sale is also $2.49, you get less....but most kids want that more.
> 
> It's unfortunate, but I believe that financial status plays an important role in weight.
> 
> You don't see too many overweight rich kids...  They come home from school and participate in sports programs and other activities.  All those activities cost money.  Kids from struggling families don't have that kind of disposable income, and many schools eliminate or curb physical fitness due to budget cuts.


This is a clear picture of what I see here, too. High quality, healthy foods are definitely more expensive in San Antonio. Of course, there are inexpensive healthy foods like the beans and rice mentioned in many other posts and from what I see here, they are the staples of the poor families I know. Perhaps it's because for southerners and Mexicans, these are integral to our traditional meals. But they can still lead to obesity if not supplemented with fresh produce and other foods that are simply too expensive.

Your mention of sports and other activity is a very good one, Vera. Most of the kids I know from poor families come straight home from school and have no physical activity on a daily basis. First, because they can't afford or even get to sports programs. And second, because the areas they live in are unsafe and no place for children to play in. If you have a car and someone home to drive, you can go to nice city parks or play on a soccer team or a swim team, etc. That is just not an option for very poor children. Most of us take for granted that a nice long walk in the evening is safe but for poor people, safety is an issue 24/7. (I hope this doesn't sound "preachy". It was an eye-opener for me when I first truly became aware of how hard it is to be poor and the kinds of things they deal with every day.)


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## GhettoRacingKid

Vera,

I dont think you derailed anything.  That is reality.  

Ive been out of school for 10 years and your right about the budget.  I know in my old school district it was always a fight to pass the budget.


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## PanchoHambre

I live in an area with many poor families. As mentioned by other posters I see many of them stocking up on frozen and boxed foods with thier food stamp cards

I myself have been living on a tight budget lately and find that fresh foods can be much more affordable but they require planning and paying attention to the unit cost etc

whole chickens and leg quarters are usually VERY affordable as are things like sacks of potatos and onions. Produce can be very expensive but not if you shop competitively and buy what is priced right.

Pasta, grains, beans are also cheap and generally a box of pasta and ingredients for a basic sauce are cheaper than poxed pasta-roni type products if you look at what you are actually buying. 

The catch is preperation time and effective use of leftovers. Also the math is more complicated. A just add water box is pretty easy to price out and therfore seems cheaper than buying more items that you will use multiple times.

Time and energy to cook are also part of the equation. I remeber hearing one of the kids who lives down the block saying "mom was going to make pork chops but she feel asleep on the couch"

A whole chicken with potatos is one of the most cost effective and simple  "real" dinners that you can make for a family.  You can definitley get a really great meal on the table for around $10 meat veggies and all and have lunch for tomorrow for a family of four

Still 4 frozen dinners from the dollar store (or 99cent frozen pizzas) and a bag of chips is still cheaper and the chicken requires having some extra ingredients on hand like salt/pepper/oil at the very least.

Many prepard foods are no bargain at all though and actually blow budgets terribly.

At some level it is a personal choice on what is important to someone personally. nutritious menus can be done on the cheap but it takes some work a one box or nukeable dinner does not


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## luvs

i don't get being 'uneducated'. kiddos attend school, with health class. 

& there's an inherant knowledge that double cheeseburgers 'er more health costly than chix. media harps on health issues, especially issues like fast food. it'd be slim pickins to find those who don't _really_ understand that if 'me eats me spinach' you'll be strong & healthy.


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## miniman

As a number have said - it is the knowledge of how to cook as the affordability of the food. Over here, a lot of people do not know how to cook at all - it is probably more common in poorer families (particularly 1 parent ones - where the parent(s) are working all hours to try to make some money - they don't have time to teach the children to cook as it is "get home and feed as fast as possible". The children grow up and perpetuate the system as they do not know how to cook nutrtious foods.

I teach cooking at our church school and I want those kids going out with a basic knowledge of how to cook - I have had parents come and thank me as they can't cook and are know learning themselves through the recipes taken home. Our govt is now making it compulsory for all secondary school pupils to learn to cook and have issued a cookbook to help them:
Cooking classes for all teens from 2011 : Directgov - Newsroom

You will however, whatever get people who don't care and will abuse their bodies with the stuff they eat and drink - there are addictive things involved here. I know for me, I try to eat healthily but still love the taste of crisp chicken skin and the taste of fast food burgers - I know it is not good and I try to restict but I still sometimes need to eat them.


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## Alix

luvs said:


> i don't get being 'uneducated'. kiddos attend school, with health class.
> 
> & there's an inherant knowledge that double cheeseburgers 'er more health costly than chix. media harps on health issues, especially issues like fast food. it'd be slim pickins to find those who don't _really_ understand that if 'me eats me spinach' you'll be strong & healthy.



luvs, for YOU those things are inherent, they are not for everyone. You read, but many don't, and the illiteracy rate alone is cause for those things to go unknown by many. And as for kids attending school, well lets just say you can make them be there, you can't make them learn. And frankly its only within the last 10 years (or so) that there has been a mandatory portion of the curriculum dedicated to nutrition. The kids don't buy the food, the parents do, and they didn't have that education. As Vera says the amount of time in gym class is limited. In Canada in the last couple of years they have mandated DAILY exercise of 30-45 minutes per day. (Its actually a weekly number to accomodate the high school semestered system)


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## archiduc

GrillingFool said:


> On another forum I belong to, there is a bit of disagreement....
> 
> So what do you think?
> 
> Poorer people (in the US) are overweight because the cheaper foods they can afford are all unhealthy?
> 
> I strongly disagree, but am surprised that there are a fair number who agree....
> 
> 
> (gosh I hope this isn't too polarizing of a subject.)


 
Hi GrillingFool,

People are overweight because they eat too much in relation to the energy they expend. It is a simple equation!

Calories in, more than calories out - you will gain weight. It is as simple and as difficult as that, because what we are talking about is food and we see it in so many different ways - not just in terms of calories but also in terms of family pressures, wanting to be like other "skninnies" or simply eating. 

The reality is that few people know how much energy they expend in a day or week and even fewer know how much energy they consumme.

Al the best,
Archiduc


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## luvs

Alix said:


> luvs, for YOU those things are inherent, they are not for everyone. You read, but many don't, and the illiteracy rate alone is cause for those things to go unknown by many. And as for kids attending school, well lets just say you can make them be there, you can't make them learn. And frankly its only within the last 10 years (or so) that there has been a mandatory portion of the curriculum dedicated to nutrition. The kids don't buy the food, the parents do, and they didn't have that education. As Vera says the amount of time in gym class is limited. In Canada in the last couple of years they have mandated DAILY exercise of 30-45 minutes per day. (Its actually a weekly number to accomodate the high school semestered system)


 
i get your point,alix. some kids fall thru the cracks & don't have a plethora of education ahead of them. they're simply uneducated.
i just cannot comprehend not understanding that cheeseburgers & stuff aren't healthy if you own a television. popeye taught me.

& i am aware of gym classes being cut; i'm angered by thier cutting gym.


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## GotGarlic

archiduc said:


> Hi GrillingFool,
> 
> People are overweight because they eat too much in relation to the energy they expend. It is a simple equation!



Hi, Archiduc. It's not always quite that simple: Sleep Stealers: Overweight and overtired: How those excess pounds might be costing your child a good night's sleep - National Sleep Foundation

Just to throw another topic into the mix.


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## kitchenelf

GotGarlic said:


> Just to throw another topic into the mix.


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## luvs

there, there, elfkins, just look past this it till you see light...


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## CharlieD

For people with less money can't afford a lot thigs. Not just food. How about health club, that is part of healthy life style. My mother in law goes to club every day, my wife or I can only dream about something like this.


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## Michael in FtW

I think Fisher's Mom get's it. I have a background in exercise physioloigy, diet, and nutrition - but when I found myself with 2 sons (Jr. High age) and only making $200/week ... we had to make some adjustments to our diets (I made a bad career change choice after my divorce). I cooked as healthy as I could - but sometimes it was a matter of using "meal extenders" (pasta, rice, beans, potatoes, etc.) to fill our bellies. But, that didn't mean we ate poorly. 

Of course, when I was tending bar for $2.50/hr (I didn't have the requisite "tip magnet" equipment to get the tips the girls did) and paying $200/wk in child support ... I spent a lot of nights sleeping in my car ... so I was fortunate to get a "hot meal" at McDonalds ... once a day. 

Anyway ...

I just did some checking on what the food stamp program might pay for a couple of retired adults, or a single parent with two children. Would you believe $160/month - $40/week - $5.33/day?

So, using all of your culinary knowledge and all of your kitchen equipment and expertise (let's eliminate the poor people are stupid theory) ... and based on the things you can find in a grocery store within walking distance from where you live, on a bus line, or within 3 miles of your home:

What would _*your*_ menu be for breakfast for 7 days, lunch for 2 days (Sat and Sun), and supper for 7 days for a week on a $40 budget for an adult and 2 children - or 3 meals a day for 2 adults?

Are you aware we have a *Budget Friendly Dishes* Forum where you can post your "cheap eats" recipes?

FWIW: Gov'mnt cheese and day-old bread makes a good grilled cheese sammy ... nothing wrong with a slice of fried bologna on day-old bread ... a slice of cheese adds flavor and nutrition ... 

Food banks don't have the resources for storing fresh produce for more than a day or two ... or fresh/frozen meats, or frozen vegetables ...


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## GhettoRacingKid

CharlieD said:


> For people with less money can't afford a lot thigs. Not just food. How about health club, that is part of healthy life style. My mother in law goes to club every day, my wife or I can only dream about something like this.


 

while a health club helps and you can excersie more muscle groups.

Last time i checked taking a walk or jog around town was free.


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## Dina

Fisher's Mom said:


> This is a clear picture of what I see here, too. High quality, healthy foods are definitely more expensive in San Antonio. Of course, there are inexpensive healthy foods like the beans and rice mentioned in many other posts and from what I see here, they are the staples of the poor families I know. Perhaps it's because for southerners and Mexicans, these are integral to our traditional meals. But they can still lead to obesity if not supplemented with fresh produce and other foods that are simply too expensive.
> 
> Your mention of sports and other activity is a very good one, Vera. Most of the kids I know from poor families come straight home from school and have no physical activity on a daily basis. First, because they can't afford or even get to sports programs. And second, because the areas they live in are unsafe and no place for children to play in. If you have a car and someone home to drive, you can go to nice city parks or play on a soccer team or a swim team, etc. That is just not an option for very poor children. Most of us take for granted that a nice long walk in the evening is safe but for poor people, safety is an issue 24/7. (I hope this doesn't sound "preachy". It was an eye-opener for me when I first truly became aware of how hard it is to be poor and the kinds of things they deal with every day.)


 
I totally agree with you. When we were young, mother used to walk to the nearby grocery store with my siblings and I to get our groceries. That was basically our exercise since we weren't school aged kids yet. Although it was a humble and safe neighborhood where we grew up, mom wouldn't allow us outside much unless she was out there watching us. So in essence we didn't get much exercise as a normal 3-5 year old should have. Our groceries consisted mostly of red meats, chicken, rice, beans, vegetables and fruits. Mom would make sure that the first 5 foods listed had a good helping of oil or butter. Ick! Oh but it was SO good back then and we didn't even know the difference. One thing that was never missing from our table were FLOUR tortillas...not good. We were not fat kids but more on the pudgy side...lol

On the other hand, DH and his 3 siblings were raised by the ocean in Central America. Their diets consisted of fresh seafood everyday and lots of their local fruits and vegetables. They had the beach nearby to swim and run all over. He had a very healthy lifestyle by just living near the ocean.

Now that we have our family, an education and higher income, I have better knowledge of what a healthy lifestyle consists of. I make sure my family gets a good nutrition and exercise in their daily lives. We have a very safe neighborhood with beautiful scenic trails to exercise. They're all involved in some type of sport in school as well. I try to get whole grain pastas, rice, breads and baking flours. Add more seafood, poultry and lean cuts of meat WITHOUT extra added oils when cooked. Lots of fresh fruits and veggies (sometimes steamed NOT covered in butter) and salads with no added fats. I think that a lot has to do with being conscious and educated of what we consume and how we prepare foods as well as the area where we live.


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## Mama

When you are worried about how you are going to pay the electric bill and where the rent money is going to come from this month and how on earth you are going to be able to buy school clothes and whether or not they are going to reposess your car and will the gas company wait another month and will I still have a job tomorrow...nutrition kind of takes a back seat.  "Comfort food", isn't notorious for being nutritious.


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## DramaQueen

*I just came back from the grocery store where I saw something I've seen very often and had to post about it.   The family in front of me had food stamps,  a load of the most outrageous junk food AND a carton of cigarettes and 2 six packs of Budweiser.  Now I understand that the food stamps can't be used for the cigarettes or beer but don't you think that at nearly $5 per pack for cigarettes and whatever beer costs, these very overweight people could buy something more nutritional?   Notice how many of them smoke next time you see this.   Being poor doesn't make you fat.  *


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## DramaQueen

Mama said:


> When you are worried about how you are going to pay the electric bill and where the rent money is going to come from this month and how on earth you are going to be able to buy school clothes and whether or not they are going to reposess your car and will the gas company wait another month and will I still have a job tomorrow...nutrition kind of takes a back seat. "Comfort food", isn't notorious for being nutritious.


 
*Sorry to disagree but comfort food is some of the most nutrional food you can eat.  Chicken and dumplings, chicken soup with veggies, meatloaf,  pot roast,  I could go on but you get the idea.   People tend to load their freezers with the "on sale" TV dinners,  burritos, tacos,  pizza,  bisquits and sausage gravy,  and some other horrific stuff  with no nutrional value.   They're cheap and they're quick and they're garbage. *


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## Mama

I've never thought of chicken and dumplings, as being good for you. Mine certainly isn't, it's loaded with sodium and it's high in fat but it sure does taste good! And then there's the mashed potatoes with gravy and mac and cheese...well, maybe some folks recipes are "healthy" but mine are geared more towards taste and less towards nutrition.  Which is fine as long as all things are in moderation.


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## DramaQueen

Mama said:


> I've never thought of chicken and dumplings, as being good for you. Mine certainly isn't, it's loaded with sodium and it's high in fat but it sure does taste good! And then there's the mashed potatoes with gravy and mac and cheese...well, maybe some folks recipes are "healthy" but mine are geared more towards taste and less towards nutrition. Which is fine as long as all things are in moderation.


 
*Chicken and dumplings are made from scratch so you add the sodium yourself. Why do you have so much? Trim the fat from the chicken.   As for the mac and cheese, cheese is not unhealthy.  Just don't load it on.   Everything in moderation, including moderation.  *


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## BreezyCooking

I totally agree with DramaQueen.

Unless you're making your "Chicken & Dumplings" & "Mac & Cheese" from some commercial mix, where exactly is all that fat & sodium coming from?  From YOU!!  

I don't add salt to ANYTHING.  If we feel something definitely needs a dash of salt, we add it at the table.  And as for fat - that's definitely something you can control during the cooking process.  You just need to educate yourself a little better Mama.


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## Mama

Ouch!

Southern dumplings are made from flour, shortening or lard, and buttermilk. The salt brings out the flavor. I know there are a lot of places around the country that call thick noodles dumplings but down here in the south, a dumpling is a big 'ol clump of biscuity goodness. As far as mac and cheese, sure I could use skim milk and low fat cheese and fake butter but it just doesn't taste good. I like to use cheddar cheese...have you looked a the nutrition facts for cheddar cheese? 532 calories per cup with 385 of those calories coming from fat with 820 mg of sodium. 1 tablespoon of butter is 100 calories with 100 calories coming from fat. 1 biscuit is 357 calories 148 of those from fat with 586 mg of sodium.  

I think I need to steer clear of this thread.


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## GrantsKat

Mama said:


> ...well, maybe some folks recipes are "healthy" but mine are geared more towards taste and less towards nutrition. Which is fine as long as all things are in moderation.


 
No mama, I think your statement was overlooked


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## DramaQueen

Mama said:


> Ouch!
> 
> Southern dumplings are made from flour, shortening or lard, and buttermilk. The salt brings out the flavor. I know there are a lot of places around the country that call thick noodles dumplings but down here in the south, a dumpling is a big 'ol clump of biscuity goodness. As far as mac and cheese, sure I could use skim milk and low fat cheese and fake butter but it just doesn't taste good. I like to use cheddar cheese...have you looked a the nutrition facts for cheddar cheese? 532 calories per cup with 385 of those calories coming from fat with 820 mg of sodium. 1 tablespoon of butter is 100 calories with 100 calories coming from fat. 1 biscuit is 357 calories 148 of those from fat with 586 mg of sodium.
> 
> I think I need to steer clear of this thread.


*No, don't steer clear of the thread. Steer clear of the lard; and you don't need to use low fat milk and cheese. Just don't put so much on. Half the cheese and half the butter will still give you great mac and cheese. I've done it and it's very good. Cheese contains a lot of sodium so you only need a pinch on your own. If you're eating a whole cup of cheese with your portion of mac and cheese, you need to cut your portions waaayyy down. *
*Okay, forget the big ol' clump of dumplings and put the chicken over noodles or brown rice. It's delicious and has a lot of nutrition. You CAN eat healthy and cheap, y'all just don't want to. *
*Stay with us. BTW here, from your website, is the reason for the overload of calories and fat: Deep fried chicken, mashed potatoes with butter and gravy I'm assuming, a mess of greens, cornbread  and sweet tea.   Lordy woman, you could DIE. *


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## jpmcgrew

I love all the foods mentioned I don't worry about the calories,salt and fat I just don't eat it on a regular basis. I wait until I get a craving maybe twice a year then I go ahead and indulge. Anyway I think we are getting off topic here. Mama you go ahead and make what you want to make, after all Paula Deen is a very rich woman because of her style of cooking.


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## suziquzie

Mama Rocks!!!!


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## DietitianInTraining

I absolutely agree... Mama's food Rocks!!!!!!!


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## luvs

i concur 'bout mama's food!!! me & jake's beloved restaurant cooks food like yours, mama. we eat there weekly!! at least!!


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## BreezyCooking

Mama's food may "rock", but it's decidedly unhealthy as a steady diet.

I'm not into synthetic low-fat alternatives, but do make a MAJOR effort to ensure my daily cooking is sensible.  And that said, I obviously fully agree with DramaQueen that there's no need to necessarily change your recipe(s) - just eat less of them, beefed up with healthier sides (cooked greens/veggies/salads, etc.).

When I go out to eat, I do have whatever I want, knowing full well that my regular sensible eating more than makes up for it.  But we eat out maybe twice a month.  If we dined out more, I'd be more careful as to what I ordered.


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## suzyQ3

GhettoRacingKid said:


> while a health club helps and you can excersie more muscle groups.
> 
> Last time i checked taking a walk or jog around town was free.



A walk or jog around many poverty-stricken areas may be not just free but also deadly.


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## Mama

First of all I'd like to say thank you to JP, Suzi, Beginner Chef and luvs for your kind comments.

This is getting way off topic so I am going to say this in my defense and then I'll leave this thread. I was only trying to defend the "poor" people out there by trying to see things from their perspective. Right or wrong, that's the way I see it.

In defense of my cooking, if you take a look at my website you will find plenty of "healthy" recipes like grilled honey mustard chicken, Grilled Teriyaki Chicken Wings, Chicken Noodle Soup, Pork chops and rice, grilled shrimp, glazed salmon and oven barbecued chicken just to name a few. 

So, please don't be so quick to pass judgement.


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## DramaQueen

*Too bad Mama left so soon, she would have realized that no one is passing judgement, least of all me since I think Southern cooking is some of the best food around.  But it is unhealthy for the most part and it doesn't have to be; I don't care if you're a rich southerner or a poor one, what you put into your mouth and the amount you eat is the reason people don't eat a healthy diet.    It seems that the original poster had a point with the question as to whether poor people eat a more unhealthy diet because they can't afford better food.  *
*I'll say it again, they CAN eat healthier even though they have little money, they just choose not to.   *
*Sorry Mama but you just didn't get the point I was trying to make.    And just for the record, that picture of the southern fried chicken, greens, mashed potatoes, and cornbread is awesome.   I can do without the sweet tea.  *


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## ironchef

suzyQ3 said:


> A walk or jog around many poverty-stricken areas may be not just free but also deadly.



LOL that's true. I wouldn't see myself going out for a jog in Compton or Watts. Maybe JKath, but not me...


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## BreezyCooking

Oh please let's not get even more off topic by bringing exercise into the equation.  That's a whole nother bugaboo.

This thread is about purchasing power & healthy food/cooking.


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## suzyQ3

BreezyCooking said:


> Oh please let's not get even more off topic by bringing exercise into the equation.  That's a whole nother bugaboo.
> 
> This thread is about purchasing power & healthy food/cooking.



CharlieD first brought up exercise when he said, "For people with less money can't afford a lot thigs. Not just food. How about health club, that is part of healthy life style."

Another poster replied that walking or jogging around the neighborhood is free.

My comment was that it can also be deadly. 

The wonderful thing about topics like this, BreezyCooking, is that they do get us thinking. Sometimes that will take us down side roads. Personally, unless it it is totally irrelevant or hijacks a thread big time, I don't think anyone should be scolded for it.

As for the specific topic of what "poor people" choose to eat, I'm afraid that we haven't defined our terms and that we might be generalizing quite a bit.


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## love2"Q"

when my wife and i were younger and on a very tight income ...
you could say poor .. we had no real idea about nutrition ...
we were both educated .. but no one ever said eating hamburger helper 
or sloppy joes three nights a week were bad for you ..
and that the cheapest ground beef is usually the worst for you in 
terms of fat .. it just wasnt taught in any classes i ever took ...
i figured as long as i threw a can of carrots or green beans on the side we were good ... i have never taken any cooking or health type classes since then .. but i have read magazines and read on the net .. that these foods are not your best choices ...
so i think personally it does come down to education .. we eat much better now ..
but we could still do alot more ..


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## babetoo

when i was a girl, and i am 70 years old, my dad was ahead of his time about food. he pretty much taught what a balanced diet was. he always had a garden and we ate lots of fish . that was before you could find fresh fish in super markets. all was frozen. his teaching was renforced by two years of home eco. in high school. my mom was a good plain cook and did it his way. so it was just second nature to do it when i married and had children. it should be taught in school, in my opinion. most of the young people that i know have no clue what good food means. they eat a lot of fast food.


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## archiduc

GotGarlic said:


> Hi, Archiduc. It's not always quite that simple: Sleep Stealers: Overweight and overtired: How those excess pounds might be costing your child a good night's sleep - National Sleep Foundation
> 
> Just to throw another topic into the mix.


 

As Disraeli said " I disagree with what you say but defend unto death your right to say it."

The reality is that if one consumes more calories than one expends by daily acitivity  and exercise, then one will put on weight, steadily, surely and inexorably. It is a matter of fact, not opinion or spin, that, unless one is taking a medication which is recognised as leading to a weight gain (identified in the medication notes which come with the pills, etc.) or a medical condition which will lead to a weight gain, a gain in weight is the consequence of consuming more calories than one expends in the normal exercise of daily life.

Now, tell me about the post-menopausal spread - is this because we are no longer running after our sprogs or related to the endocrine system and life wants us to be comfortable "Grannies". Perhaps we should walk more!

Archiduc


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## jpmcgrew

Well I say unhealthy food is still better than no food and if you want to talk unhealthy, Mexican food can be unhealthy as well.


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## Alix

Well I gotta say I'm scratching my head about the odd turn this thread took. How on earth did we get on to bashing Mama's recipes or southern cooking? Weird. 

We seem to all have different ideas about what this thread is to be about. And its interesting to see some of the irritations come out at the misuse of food stamps. Forgive me if I misunderstood, but that is what it sounded like. 

From my standpoint, I still don't see anything but education as the key to making change. (There speaks a teacher at heart) 

And for whoever it was that said being overweight is the simple equation of more calories taken in than burned, well that is very true. We are all aware of what "empty calories" are though because we are here and we have access to all that info. Many many folks don't. They buy what they can afford to fill their bellies with little thought as to the caloric content of those items.


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## Aria

*We must eat healthy*

Cost?  Who can't afford to be healthy?   We all must try and eat healthy.

You really can't value your health with dollars.  We should have quality not so much quantity.  Fruits, veggies, whole grains...you know the foods
that are considered healthy.

Health is the first consideration.  Without health ....you won't care what you eat.  Let's eat healthy.  Ill health is expensive.


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## jpmcgrew

Aria said:


> Cost? Who can't afford to be healthy? We all must try and eat healthy.
> 
> You really can't value your health with dollars. We should have quality not so much quantity. Fruits, veggies, whole grains...you know the foods
> that are considered healthy.
> 
> Health is the first consideration. Without health ....you won't care what you eat. Let's eat healthy. Ill health is expensive.


 
 Easier said than done.


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## GB

Aria said:


> Cost?  Who can't afford to be healthy?   We all must try and eat healthy.
> 
> You really can't value your health with dollars.  We should have quality not so much quantity.  Fruits, veggies, whole grains...you know the foods
> that are considered healthy.
> 
> Health is the first consideration.  Without health ....you won't care what you eat.  Let's eat healthy.  Ill health is expensive.


If you do not have money to spend on food then your don't have money to spend on food.


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## sattie

suzyQ3 said:


> CharlieD first brought up exercise when he said, "For people with less money can't afford a lot thigs. Not just food. How about health club, that is part of healthy life style."
> 
> Another poster replied that walking or jogging around the neighborhood is free.
> 
> My comment was that it can also be deadly.
> 
> The wonderful thing about topics like this, BreezyCooking, is that they do get us thinking. Sometimes that will take us down side roads. Personally, unless it it is totally irrelevant or hijacks a thread big time, I don't think anyone should be scolded for it.
> 
> As for the specific topic of what "poor people" choose to eat, I'm afraid that we haven't defined our terms and that we might be generalizing quite a bit.


 
I agree!!!!


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## lovergrill

GrillingFool said:


> On another forum I belong to, there is a bit of disagreement....
> So what do you think?
> Poorer people (in the US) are overweight because the cheaper foods they can afford are all unhealthy?
> I strongly disagree, but am surprised that there are a fair number who agree....
> (gosh I hope this isn't too polarizing of a subject.)



Just to get back to the beginning of this thread and add my 2 cents....

Really "poor" people  ain't never overweight.
Foods aren't unhealthy, it's how you eat 'em is.
America is a power house of provisions. 
All the "good for you" staple items in America are as cheap and as plentiful as can be.
The failure is in education and not in agri-business.


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## suzyQ3

_Really "poor" people  ain't never overweight.

_It depends upon how you define "really poor." 

As for the idea that healthful foods are cheap and plentiful, that may not always be the case in certain poverty-stricken neighborhoods, where fast-food joints predominate and supermarkets are often nowhere to be found.


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## PattY1

lovergrill said:


> Just to get back to the beginning of this thread and add my 2 cents....
> 
> Really "poor" people ain't never overweight.
> Foods aren't unhealthy, it's how you eat 'em is.
> America is a power house of provisions.
> *All the "good for you" staple items in America are as cheap and as plentiful as can be.*
> The failure is in education and not in agri-business.


 

I would sure like to know where you live, so I could move there.

The bottom line is the reasons "poor people are overweight" are:

Lack of money
Lack of education
Lack of shopping options
Lack of refrigeration, stove, oven and storage space
Lack of transportation


It is just a Fact that prepackaged high carb food is cheaper, easier to prepare, can be purchased anywhere, requires little refrigeration, limited cooking resources and stores easier. So it can be purchased with or without transportation.

So does this clear the question up for everyone?


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## jxb10

If you go to the dollar store, you can get packaged food pretty cheap. Top Ramen, Macaroni & cheese, all very cheap. I don't necessarily agree because frozen vegetables can be pretty cheap and they are much better than frozen pizzas and macaroni and cheese. While I agree food that is bad for you can be pretty cheap, I do agree that if you make healthy foods you can save them for lunch and dinner the next night. Time is another factor and a whole different discussion...


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## PattY1

jxb10 said:


> If you go to the dollar store, you can get packaged food pretty cheap. Top Ramen, Macaroni & cheese, all very cheap. I don't necessarily agree because frozen vegetables can be pretty cheap and they are much better than frozen pizzas and macaroni and cheese. While I agree food that is bad for you can be pretty cheap, I do agree that if you make healthy foods you can save them for lunch and dinner the next night. *Time is another factor and a whole different discussion*...


 
smackingmyselfintheforehead:  How did I forget that one?


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## lovergrill

PattY1 said:


> I would sure like to know where you live, so I could move there.
> 
> The bottom line is the reasons "poor people are overweight" are:
> 
> Lack of money
> Lack of education
> Lack of shopping options
> Lack of refrigeration, stove, oven and storage space
> Lack of transportation
> 
> 
> It is just a Fact that prepackaged high carb food is cheaper, easier to prepare, can be purchased anywhere, requires little refrigeration, limited cooking resources and stores easier. So it can be purchased with or without transportation.
> 
> So does this clear the question up for everyone?



Well I guess I should ask the same question; where do you live?

Here is a quote from The Economic Research Service of the United States Department of Agriculture:

*"How Much Do Americans Pay For Fruits And Vegetables?- One argument for not consuming fruits and vegetables is that they are too expensive, especially when fresh. Yet among 154 forms of fruits and vegetables priced using ACNeilsen Homescan data, more than half were estimated to cost 25 cents or less per serving. Consumers can meet the recommendation of three servings of fruits and four servings of vegetables daily for 64 cents. The related product data is a collection of spreadsheets that contain all the data used in the report and are presented to show exactly how ERS arrived at the costs per serving figures."

*I still cannot post links so you will have to look up the USDA ERS yourself. 
Food in America is mightily abundant and by global standards very, very reasonable priced as well. Two facts that as an American you should be very proud of. 

While I do not disagree that employment opportunities, shopping, housing and transportation play a role in American poverty, I still believe the major issue with American obesity in low income earners is education. Notice how I distinguish between the two. I believe that there is a link between poverty and obesity, however I do not believe that if you solve the poverty issue you will solve the obesity issue at the same time. They are not the same issues. 

It's too simple to blame such a complicated problem on one or two items, like high carb prepackaged food or fast food restaurants. 
It's not the food, it's how you eat it. And knowing how to eat is a matter of education. 

As well I do not understand your statement "_So it can be purchased with or without transportation."_ Given then, that one can purchase mac and cheese without transportation; one should then be able to purchase a potato or a tomato without transportation. I do not see the difference or the point you are trying to make.

As well, I would tell you that nothing in the world is easier to prepare then a fresh fruit. 
Cheap ramen noodles require more time, effort, energy and concentration then eating a whole apple or fresh tomato.

In summation, my response to your question “So does this clear the question up for everyone?” is no.
  Keep in mind this is my opinion, I will let you seek out the facts for yourself.


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## Alix

You know what? I don't think anyone is going to convince anyone else of their point of view here. I was thinking we would all add some information and maybe we'd all learn some things (and I have actually, so thanks) but it seems like on this particular issue you either agree or you don't and never the twain shall meet. I'm going to close this thread. I know from experience when the tone starts to degenerate to personal stuff as it has lately its not going anywhere good. 

I hope we all keep looking and learning and don't let ourselves get in a rut.


----------

