# The Downton Abbey SPOILERS Thread



## pacanis (Jan 17, 2013)

So lets talk about what we've seen so far here in the western hemisphere. I know I've got a lot on my mind. This is the only British show/series that I recall watching and I'm not sure if some things are simply left unsaid or if they have no closure because they are going to come back to them.

Spoilers. You have been warned...

Patrick (or P Gordon): Is he going to crop up again later with some plastic surgery? He sure left suddenly. Hard to figure if they just dropped that storyline or what.

Daisy: What a twit. The moments leading up to her wedding with William were getting unbearable. Is she that naive? I like her character amongst the rest of the staff, but she's a hard one to read. I thought she was going to have a change of heart and move in with William's father there for a while. Especially with her becoming an accomplished person with skills and getting the money from the army... or didn't she get that yet? Another thing that was suddenly dropped. And did she ever find out about Thomas' "affiliation"? Another storyline that was suddenly dropped. If you picked up the show in season 2 you wouldn't even know.

O'Brien: Are you a good witch, or a bad witch? Looks like she's channeling her energies onto Thomas now. I was expecting her nephew Alfred to behave in much the same manner, but one O'Brien is enough as I never know whose side she's on. She obviously hates the family, but feels obligated now and shows signs of genuine compassion... another point for soap on a rope 

Thomas: What can you say, he's smart and conniving. For as many times as he's been fired, found out and implicated in his shenanigans I'm surprised the staff and he still eat at the same table. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer I guess.

Bates: I don't know what to say other than I think he did it, but they will probably come up with some preposterous conclusion to this storyline.

Matthew: Has he stopped working entirely now? He seems to have been assimilated into their lifestyle quite completely and this talk of what to do with the money was getting old quickly.

Isobel: Didn't they get rid of her by sending her off? Now she's back in every episode again. Why hasn't she tried to gain control or however she was threatening them by being so close?

Anna: The reason I keep watching the show  Probably the most stable character other than Robert and Cora.

Carson: Love that his character has remained true. He sure gets sick a lot though.

Mrs Huges: Became too much of a softy for my tastes. I liked her better when she was ordering people out of rooms they were dawdling in.

Isis: I wouldn't be me if I didn't say something about Isis. I much preferred season 1's Isis. Your typical English Lab you would expect Robert to own. Now he's got this perpetual puppy that just doesn't suit him IMO. She doesn't appear to be English at all.

Violet: I too like her off the cuff remarks that *barely* give opinion away. 

I could go on, but I've typed enough already. I'd love to hear your opinions of the various characters and storylines.


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## Gravy Queen (Jan 17, 2013)

Hmm given what I know do you really want me to answer any of these ? I'm not sure about having a spoilers thread !


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## pacanis (Jan 17, 2013)

Gravy Queen said:


> Hmm given what I know do you really want me to answer any of these ? I'm not sure about having a spoilers thread !


 
Answer anything? Noooo... 
This thread was for discussion/comments of what we have seen so far in the *western hemisphere*.  From what I have gathered the UK has seen all of season 3.  We are up to episode 2 (which is episode 3 UK).
Feel free to comment on any character developments, storylines or your opinions of the characters up to there


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## Addie (Jan 17, 2013)

I am curious about the Christmas Special. Why aren't we getting it? I think I am going to have to bite the bullet and watch the UK version. For some reason I feel like Americans are getting the short end of the stick. Don't the powers that be realize that the world is now global? That America is bound to hear the truth about the show and what we are not allowed to see on the television?


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## Gravy Queen (Jan 17, 2013)

I won't comment then. I don't understand what versions you are getting ? How does it differ ?


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## pacanis (Jan 17, 2013)

Addie said:


> I am curious about the Christmas Special. Why aren't we getting it? I think I am going to have to bite the bullet and watch the UK version. For some reason I feel like Americans are getting the short end of the stick. Don't the powers that be realize that the world is now global? That America is bound to hear the truth about the show and what we are not allowed to see on the television?


 
If I recall that one was a double episode. It felt longer than the rest anyway.


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## bakechef (Jan 17, 2013)

I'm in the western hemisphere and have seen them all!  But I'll keep my trap shut.  

I do enjoy reading everyone's reactions to the episodes.


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## pacanis (Jan 17, 2013)

bakechef said:


> I'm in the western hemisphere and have seen them all! But I'll keep my trap shut.
> 
> I do enjoy reading everyone's reactions to the episodes.


 
You saw them all, too? 
I'll have to start sending in donations to PBS so I can get them early 

I'd love to hear your thoughts on some of the characters. I'm a bit surprised more people haven't wanted to discuss what has been aired so far without fear of mentioning details 

And geez, no mention of Mary's scandal yet in the papers? Don't tell me Richard just dropped it... enough time has passed, what with the wedding and all.


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## Kayelle (Jan 17, 2013)

bakechef said:


> I'm in the western hemisphere and have seen them all!  But I'll keep my trap shut.
> 
> I do enjoy reading everyone's reactions to the episodes.



I'm also curious how you already saw them all. I know Michelle Obama was given the privilege after her request last summer but.........?

Also, everyone keeps talking about this Christmas special. Is there something I'm missing?
I've seen the Christmas episode with the proposal. Is there another one?


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## bakechef (Jan 17, 2013)

At the end of each season, before the next one, there is a longer show shown on Christmas day, they call it a "christmas special".  Other series do this as well, Dr. Who for instance.  

I use a proxy which makes my computer look like it is located in London.  I can stream stuff that is only accessible from UK ip addresses.  

Also you can download it, if that's your thing,  it's probably not the right thing to do, but it is a show that is shown for free, so not really any different than recording it on a DVR


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## Kayelle (Jan 17, 2013)

bakechef said:


> At the end of each season, before the next one, there is a longer show shown on Christmas day, they call it a "christmas special".  Other series do this as well, Dr. Who for instance.
> 
> I use a proxy which makes my computer look like it is located in London.  I can stream stuff that is only accessible from UK ip addresses.
> 
> Also you can download it, if that's your thing,  it's probably not the right thing to do, but it is a show that is shown for free, so not really any different than recording it on a DVR



So where do I go without a UK ip addy to download that "Christmas Special"?


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## bakechef (Jan 17, 2013)

Kayelle said:


> So where do I go without a UK ip addy to download that "Christmas Special"?



The shady underworld of bit torrent....


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## Kayelle (Jan 17, 2013)

Thanks for the information. That's perfectly clear.


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## bakechef (Jan 18, 2013)

Kayelle said:


> Thanks for the information. That's perfectly clear.



I just saw that on January 29th amazon will have the entire season, including the Christmas special available for purchase to download.


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## pacanis (Jan 18, 2013)

bakechef said:


> I just saw that on January 29th amazon will have the entire season, including the Christmas special available for purchase to download.


 
Been there bought it 
They were nice enough to credit the three episodes I already purchased this season.


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## Gravy Queen (Jan 18, 2013)

Yes we had another Christmas special on Christmas Day in the UK .


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## Addie (Jan 19, 2013)

Okay. I think I understand. Does this Christmas Special have a bearing on the plot of the whole show? And if it does, because I am on a very fixed income, should I seriously consider purchasing this Special? I have never been one to purchase the 'whole' series of any show. But there has been talk of 'GBH (our local PBS) showing the whole series of the original "Upstairs, Downstairs" again. I hope so. If they do I will record that one. I wish I had known how hooked I would get into this one. I would have started to record it from day one. 

As you can see, I am sooooo hooked on this dang show. I just wish they had filmed at least half of the next season each time they show a season so we wouldn't have to wait so long in between. sad


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## tinlizzie (Jan 19, 2013)

Addie said:


> ... I will record that one. I wish I had known how hooked I would get into this one. I would have started to record it from day one.



I recorded the O.J.Simpson trial way back when, but I've never wanted to look at that travesty again.

I think the Lady Mary scandal will rear its ugly head again, whether it's brought about by Richard or forced out of a 'friendly' on the staff.  I wonder if that sequence was drawn from actual happenings by Fellowes.

Not surprised that there was such a serious pecking order in the staff - the mealtimes downstairs are so interesting.

I'm not keen on the line regarding Isobel's good works, but Fellowes casts a wide net on the social mores of the period so neither is that surprising.


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## tinlizzie (Jan 19, 2013)

I wonder if that was drawn by Fellowes from actual happenings.


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## Addie (Jan 19, 2013)

tinlizzie said:


> I recorded the O.J.Simpson trial way back when, but I've never wanted to look at that travesty again.
> 
> I think the Lady Mary scandal will rear its ugly head again, whether it's brought about by Richard or forced out of a 'friendly' on the staff. I wonder if that sequence was drawn from actual happenings by Fellowes.
> 
> ...


 
My first husband grew up on the property of the Lord Cumberland. His father was the choir master for the family church. He would tell my kids about his childhood there. One of the stories he told them was of "a shoot". My husband and other kids that lived on the estate at the time would sit on the fence and watch them eating their picnic. When they were done, the left over food would go into a large trash container. The kids would sit there hungry watching them toss all that good food away.


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## pacanis (Jan 19, 2013)

tinlizzie said:


> ...Not surprised that there was such a serious pecking order in the staff - the mealtimes downstairs are so interesting...


 
Yes, it's interesting the way they all jump up out of their seats when another staff member walks in. And not always Carson or Hughes.

Something I just remembered...
Back when Mosely had that allergy rash on his hands he was instructed to wear gloves, to which he replied, "I'll look like a footman". Shortly after that Thomas and William were shown in the dining room and neither were wearing gloves, yet they were both footmen at the time. hmmm


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## bakechef (Jan 19, 2013)

Addie said:


> Okay. I think I understand. Does this Christmas Special have a bearing on the plot of the whole show? And if it does, because I am on a very fixed income, should I seriously consider purchasing this Special? I have never been one to purchase the 'whole' series of any show. But there has been talk of 'GBH (our local PBS) showing the whole series of the original "Upstairs, Downstairs" again. I hope so. If they do I will record that one. I wish I had known how hooked I would get into this one. I would have started to record it from day one.
> 
> As you can see, I am sooooo hooked on this dang show. I just wish they had filmed at least half of the next season each time they show a season so we wouldn't have to wait so long in between. sad



Yes the Christmas special does have a large bearing on the plot.  You might be a bit lost during the beginning of the next season if you were to miss it.

I'm sure that PBS will show the special at the end of the season, it wouldn't make any sense if they didn't, it would mess up the flow of the show.


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## Addie (Jan 19, 2013)

I looked at the schedule of this seasons shows. The first episode was two hours long and the last one is on Jan 27th and is also two hours long. Hopefully that is the Christmas Special. UK was able to watch that last episode during Christmas. Hopefully that is the one they are talking about.


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## bakechef (Jan 19, 2013)

yeah, that makes sense.  The christmas special was a 2 hour show.

Looks like they restructured the episodes a bit from the UK version.  The UK version had 7-episodes and the 8th is the Christmas special.  The UK shows were an average of 48 minutes each.  Looks like they are making the 1 hour each for the US and making episode 6, 120 minutes.  Then the Christmas special is 90 minutes.

In the UK there were 7 episodes and 1 Christmas special.  The US version is treating them all like episodes with a total of 7.

I expect this is because PBS has to fill slots that are 1 hour, 1/2 hour, or 2 hour because they have no commercials on PBS.

The last episode airs on February 17th, not January 27th!


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## Addie (Jan 19, 2013)

bakechef said:


> yeah, that makes sense. The christmas special was a 2 hour show.
> 
> Looks like they restructured the episodes a bit from the UK version. The UK version had 7-episodes and the 8th is the Christmas special. The UK shows were an average of 48 minutes each. Looks like they are making the 1 hour each for the US and making episode 6, 120 minutes. Then the Christmas special is 90 minutes.
> 
> ...


 

The schedule for our local channel WGBH doesn't show it that way. But then 'GBH does everything to their own liking. Our cable company took the one out of state for PBS away. So we are stuck with 'GBH and their whims.


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## bakechef (Jan 19, 2013)

Addie said:


> The schedule for our local channel WGBH doesn't show it that way. But then 'GBH does everything to their own liking. Our cable company took the one out of state for PBS away. So we are stuck with 'GBH and their whims.



That is weird Addie!  I checked out their website and it's gawd awful!  What a slow unattractive thing it is!  Makes me appreciate UNC TV, it's all I get because I have an antenna in the attic!


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## Gravy Queen (Jan 19, 2013)

Yes the Christmas special is very important !


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## tinlizzie (Jan 19, 2013)

pacanis said:


> Yes, it's interesting the way they all jump up out of their seats when another staff member walks in. And not always Carson or Hughes.
> 
> Something I just remembered...
> Back when Mosely had that allergy rash on his hands he was instructed to wear gloves, to which he replied, "I'll look like a footman". Shortly after that Thomas and William were shown in the dining room and neither were wearing gloves, yet they were both footmen at the time. hmmm



If there's a quiz at the end of the season, guess who's gonna win.


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## Kayelle (Jan 19, 2013)

bakechef said:


> *Yes the Christmas special does have a large bearing on the plot.  You might be a bit lost during the beginning of the next season if you were to miss it.
> *
> I'm sure that PBS will show the special at the end of the season, it wouldn't make any sense if they didn't, it would mess up the flow of the show.



Well all this time I thought the elusive "Christmas Special" was at the end of season *two that ended at Christmas with the proposal. *No wonder I couldn't find it anywhere if it's at the end of season three.


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## Gravy Queen (Jan 19, 2013)

There have been 2 Christmas specials .


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## bakechef (Jan 19, 2013)

The latest "christmas special". Will be shown as the last episode here In the states instead of a "special"


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## Kayelle (Jan 19, 2013)

Gravy Queen said:


> There have been 2 Christmas specials .



*oh noooooo!!  Now I'm right back where I started GQ! *

For the life of me, I can't find the season 2 Christmas Special anywhere.


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## jabbur (Jan 19, 2013)

Kayelle, I watched season 2 Christmas special on hulu plus.  It's a subscription service like netflix but the offer a 1 week free trial that I used and watched it that way.  If you don't want the service, it's no biggie to go to their site and cancel.  They didn't give me any grief when I did that.  I believe the 2 Christmas shows are at the end of season 2 and season 3 so we here in the US haven't gotten to the season 3 one yet.


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## pacanis (Jan 19, 2013)

I simply thought the Christmas episode was just that, an episode. I didn't see anything special about it other than it was longer.

And on that note. One of my customer told me today that it snowed in England while she was there. Said everything pretty much shut down and they were predicting a "blizzard".


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## Gravy Queen (Jan 19, 2013)

Yes most of England has had snow, nowhere shut down as far as I know , some disruption to transport . Blizzards here and there . Been out for some lovely snowy walks . 

Re Downton, yes the Christmas specials are just longer episodes with a bit of extra drama chucked in !


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## pacanis (Jan 19, 2013)

Yes, the way Richard kept saying things were going to be different with his servants (over the holidays) was drama alright.


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## Kayelle (Jan 21, 2013)

OK someone please help me with Bates in the episode last night. (Jan 20).

Why was his mail held up both ways? Bates planted whatever they found in his cell mates bed, but does anyone know what it was they found?


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## pacanis (Jan 21, 2013)

I just finished watching that episode.
Craig, Bates' cellmate, has it in for him. Craig also has something going on with one of the guards by the name Durrant. Something on the outside they said.
Craig planted something that looked the same (something in burlap) in Bates' bed a couple episodes ago, but Bate's buddy told him about the setup and Bates' hid it from the guards when they searched the cell. That ticked off Craig and Durrant, so they had bates declared dangerous for punching Craig and that's why his mail was witheld (outgoing and incoming) and that's also why he was not allowed visitors.

Bates turned the tables and planted the piece of burlap into Craig's bed. And Bates' buddy somehow made sure an honest guard performed the search and discovered it. And now Bates is back in good standing and getting his mail and stuff.

As to what it was... beats me. They haven't said. Drugs maybe? It might be one of those things that just happens without explaination because it really doesn't matter to the plot. It was simply something they weren't supposed to have.

Pretty cool on the fire prevention system in the castle, huh? Buckets hanging up with dirt in them. I didn't know they had anything.


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## Kayelle (Jan 21, 2013)

Thanks so much Pac! You're so good with the names of everyone!

Yeah, that was amusing with the state of the art fire retardant.


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## pacanis (Jan 21, 2013)

I'm good with the names because I can read them. Otherwise I wouldn't know doo-doo 

I'm still trying to figure out Robert Crawley who is an earl, but also called the Lord of Grantham and resides in Downton Abbey 
Is Downton Abbey the castle and Grantham the village, or the other way around? Seems Crawley should be in there somewhere.


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## jabbur (Jan 21, 2013)

pacanis said:


> I'm good with the names because I can read them. Otherwise I wouldn't know doo-doo
> 
> I'm still trying to figure out Robert Crawley who is an earl, but also called the Lord of Grantham and resides in Downton Abbey
> Is Downton Abbey the castle and Grantham the village, or the other way around? Seems Crawley should be in there somewhere.



I believe Crawley is the family name like Windsor is the family name of the Queen.  He is an earl which gives his title of Lord of Grantham and Downton Abbey is the name of the castle.


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## pacanis (Jan 21, 2013)

What is Grantham? Their village/estate?


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## jabbur (Jan 21, 2013)

I believe so.  A little googling and earldoms were bestowed on families of influence and named after the area where they lived or had their land/interests invested.


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## pacanis (Jan 21, 2013)

ahhhh...
When I first started watching it I thought Robert and his immediate family's last names was Grantham, while the cousins' (Matthew and Isobel) names were Crawley. Then I caught that his last name was Crawley, too, and couldn't figure where Grantham came from.


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## bakechef (Jan 21, 2013)

Kayelle said:


> oh noooooo!!  Now I'm right back where I started GQ!
> 
> For the life of me, I can't find the season 2 Christmas Special anywhere.



If you read my previous post, the US version is treatiing the Christmas special as the last episode, episode 7 which will be 90 minutes.  This current Christmas special wasn't Christmas themed like the previous one.  So if you follow PBS, you'll get it all!  Hope that helps!

Amazon is selling all episodes as the UK versions, with one that is listed as the special.  They will have them all available for download on the 29th.


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## Addie (Jan 21, 2013)

pacanis said:


> ahhhh...
> When I first started watching it I thought Robert and his immediate family's last names was Grantham, while the cousins' (Matthew and Isobel) names were Crawley. Then I caught that his last name was Crawley, too, and couldn't figure where Grantham came from.


 
Remember when Princess Margaret wanted to marry Anthony Armstong-Jones? Well, her sister, the Queen, didn't want her sister's children to be born commoners. So she bestowed the title of "Earl of Snowdon" upon her husband-to-be just prior to the marriage. So now the family name is Armstrong-Jones, House of Snowdon. The family lineage is passed down through the male heirs. Unless there are no male heirs, until recently with the birth of Prince William's child, should it be a girl. 

"Earl of Snowdon" is one of those titles that petered out due to no male heirs to carry it on. So the Queen resurrected it for Anthony. Just like the "Duchess of Cambridge" for Prince William's wife. To have a child of William's be entitled to the throne without a Title from both parents would have made the child half-commoner. And you certainly don't want just any commoner taking control of the throne. 

Princess Anne, chose to not have a title bestowed upon her husband. Thus her children, granchildren to the Queen, have no title either, nor can they claim one without the Queen's permission or her bestowing one upon them. Thus they are considered commoners. And waaaay down the line of inheritence to the throne. And of all the immediate family members that make appearances on behalf of "The Firm", Princess Anne makes the most. 

So there is your mini history lesson on The Royal Family of England.


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## Gravy Queen (Jan 21, 2013)

No Zara and Peter Phillips are not way down the line because they have no title they are still the children of Princess Anne and are in their rightful places in the top 15 in the succession line .


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## pacanis (Jan 21, 2013)

Addie said:


> Remember when Princess Margaret wanted to marry Anthony Armstong-Jones?...


 
Who?


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## Gravy Queen (Jan 21, 2013)

Crawley is the family name and Downton is the village .


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## pacanis (Jan 21, 2013)

Gravy Queen said:


> Crawley is the family name and Downton is the village .


 
And Grantham? Is _that_ the castle name then?
Or is that simply a title like what Addie was saying about Snowdon?


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## Kayelle (Jan 21, 2013)

Speaking of Princess Margaret, I recently saw the movie "The Queen's Sister" on TV. I was young enough at the time to not have any interest, but she was a real doozie if even half of the film is true. 
The Queen's Sister - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Addie (Jan 21, 2013)

Gravy Queen said:


> No Zara and Peter Phillips are not way down the line because they have no title they are still the children of Princess Anne and are in their rightful places in the top 15 in the succession line .


 
But their chances of succession are almost slim to even less.

When I was watching Zara complete in the Summer Olympics I couldn't help but wonder if Zara mucks out her horses' stalls like her mother has all these years? Anne once stated that they were her horses, her responsibilities. I hope she passed that on to her children.


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## Gravy Queen (Jan 22, 2013)

Yes , the chances are slim as are others as well .


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## buckytom (Jan 22, 2013)

so now i'm a johnny foreigner, am i?

grrr. 


lol.


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## Addie (Jan 22, 2013)

Gravy Queen said:


> Yes , the chances are slim as are others as well .


 
Jusr as you get it in your mind, the line of succession, someone in the royal family gets married and has children. Then the line is messed up again. 

Many years ago when Queen Elizabeth gave birth to Prince Edward, there was a small news blurb that when Prince Philip married Queen Elizabeth, he signed an agreement that he would father five children. When Princess Diana and Prince Charles divorced I remembered that and wondered if there was such an agreement between them also.


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## Gravy Queen (Jan 22, 2013)

Yes as soon as Prince Williams child is born he or she will be bumped up the line so it does always change as you say .


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## Gravy Queen (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm guessing that Grantham is a title as Addie has said but I can't find anything to confirm that . Downton Abbey is the castle (in real life it is Highclere Castle ) .


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## pacanis (Jan 22, 2013)

That was my conclusion, also. I can't find a thing Googling Grantham, thought it seems a popular question.


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## Kayelle (Jan 28, 2013)

What a heartbreaking episode last night, sigh. I wonder if I was Nora how I could ever forgive Robert. I wonder if she ever will.


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## CWS4322 (Jan 28, 2013)

It wasn't what I expected at one point. I figured a harrowing ride to the hospital was in store and months of touch and go. I would have preferred that...


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## bakechef (Jan 28, 2013)

Aahhh, it was THAT episode last night.....


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## Kayelle (Jan 28, 2013)

I meant Cora, not Nora in my previous post. 

  Strange that the writers didn't check the medical facts of 1920 and left both those doctors standing there claiming there was nothing that could be done for her. They could at least have said they didn't have Magnesium sulfate with them. That could have been believable at least.

Beyond Downton Abbey: Preeclampsia Maternal Deaths Continue Today - The Daily Beast

_"_Even in the early 1900s, some treatment for seizures would have been  utilized. Magnesium sulfate has been around since 1906 and has since  been proven to be a superior medication. It is cheap, cost-effective,  and relatively easy to administer."


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## pacanis (Jan 28, 2013)

Wow is right. I just finished watching it. I had a hunch there would be a relapse. Everything was too perfect for as much as they dwelled on it earlier. And did anyone else take their hand and make a knife twisting motion when Cora made that comment to Robert before she left to write her letter? Looks like a division coming between those two over this.

And Mary is hiking her pants up further in her relationship, too.

Onto another plotline though... why now? Why now does Isobel help Ethel out now that she gave up her baby? I did not expect that. I figured Ethel was gone from the show until maybe later after her kid grows up... depending on how many seasons there will be of this. I laughed at the comment Carson made about telling Mrs Hughes to make sure the _footmen_ did not visit either 

Interesting epeisode. I get the rest of the season tomorrow. I won't say anything until after they air.


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## Kayelle (Jan 28, 2013)

Pac, maybe the Ethel plot line is heading toward her "servicing" both Robert and Matthew. Looks like they're  both cut off after last night.


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## pacanis (Jan 28, 2013)

Kayelle said:


> Pac, maybe the Ethel plot line is heading toward her "servicing" both Robert and Matthew. Looks like they're both cut off after last night.


 

Well, she obviously can't cook...


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## Kayelle (Jan 28, 2013)

But such a lovely "kidney souffle"......


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## pacanis (Jan 28, 2013)

Kayelle said:


> But such a lovely "kidney souffle"......


 
Is there such a thing? 

I'm still trying to come up with the plot line between Sybil's baby and that Mary & Matthew are still lacking... something will be done with that, you wait. Maybe not this season, but I'll bet somewhere down the line. I can't imagine the hubby hanging around without his wife. Not when he's such a radical. Unless he does a character flop.


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## Addie (Jan 29, 2013)

pacanis said:


> Is there such a thing?
> 
> I'm still trying to come up with the plot line between Sybil's baby and that Mary & Matthew are still lacking... something will be done with that, you wait. Maybe not this season, but I'll bet somewhere down the line. I can't imagine the hubby hanging around without his wife. Not when he's such a radical. Unless he does a character flop.


 
Well, it has already been stated that Matthew will not be returning after this season. Does he get killed in WWII? 

The differences between the two doctors was a question of ethics. Robert's doctor should have acquiesced to the family doctor. Even if he was wrong. After all, she had been his patient throughout her whole life. And since they were expecting a home birth, they should have had the medicines and equipment with them to handle a home birth. Robert should have notified the family doctor of his decision to bring in another doctor. Bad decisions by everyone.


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## buckytom (Jan 29, 2013)

Addie said:


> Well, it has already been stated that Matthew will not be returning after this season. Does he get killed in WWII?
> 
> The differences between the two doctors was a question of ethics. Robert's doctor should have acquiesced to the family doctor. Even if he was wrong. After all, she had been his patient throughout her whole life. And since they were expecting a home birth, they should have had the medicines and equipment with them to handle a home birth. Robert should have notified the family doctor of his decision to bring in another doctor. Bad decisions by everyone.


 
matthew will be too old to serve in wwii.

and the point of the plot was that status was more important than ethics.


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## Addie (Jan 29, 2013)

I know what the message was, but in my family, ethics are a big issue. My daughter works in Management for the DMV. No one in the family will ever ask her to push through their registration, driving tests, etc. She didn't even do it for her own kids or husband. It is just unethical. 

And the same goes for my youngest son. Don't even let the thought of asking him to write a script for you enter your head. You will get a resounding "No!" from him and catch h**l from the rest of the family. He practices Emergency Medicine. He changed jobs recently and is now at the hospital that I go to all the time. He is in the ER one day a week. When I asked him what day it was, so I could try not to go on his work day, he changed his practicing to Trauma Medicine. Gunshots, stabbings, etc. He will still be in the ER, but not in the area where they would bring me. They will only call him to my side as my Medical Proxy if needed. Otherwise I am just another patient. And I NEVER use his name to get preferential treatment from my own doctors. Ethics!


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## buckytom (Jan 29, 2013)

well of course, addie. we live in a different century, and country (as far as the plot goes, that is) .


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## Kayelle (Jan 29, 2013)

buckytom said:


> matthew will be too old to serve in wwii.
> 
> and the point of the plot was that status was more important than ethics.



Exactly right BT, not to mention why it's unlikely Cora will ever forgive the pompous doctor, *or *Robert for standing with him.


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## buckytom (Jan 29, 2013)

i think cora will get over it. she seems to truely love robert, flaws and all. actually, she protects him in a way.
and she buys into the whole scheme of things, as they were.


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## buckytom (Jan 29, 2013)

honestly, i can sympathize with robert. if i had to decide between my family doctor saying he had an uncertain treatment, and a specialist that guaranteed a  good result, i'm not sure who i'd choose even today.

i can see this working into the subplot of how robert loses his being master of the abbey, and matthew taking over.


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## Addie (Jan 29, 2013)

buckytom said:


> well of course, addie. we live in a different century, and country (as far as the plot goes, that is) .


 
There are somethings that send me over the edge. Abuse and neglect of children and animals, ethics, deliberate and uncalled for rudeness, thinking I am just a stupid old lady, etc. I do tend to get carried away. I need to step back and remember, "this is just a story." Darn DA. I am just too involved in this story. It has me hooked. I need to go and look at "Today's Funny."


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## Gravy Queen (Jan 29, 2013)

Ooh , interesting on things that have been picked up that I didn't know at the time and now it all makes sense.


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## Addie (Jan 29, 2013)

Gravy Queen said:


> Ooh , interesting on things that have been picked up that I didn't know at the time and now it all makes sense.


 
Ah yes! As the saying goes.... "And the plot thickens." Daisy has some evidence that will free Mr. Bates. But will she be able to put it to use?


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## CWS4322 (Jan 29, 2013)

My mom's oldest brother was born with a birth defect in 1922--his esophagus was not connected. He was born in a hospital, but sent home with my grandparents to die (I can't imagine how hard that was for them--this was their first born child. My grandfather was gassed in the trenches in France during WWI). Today this would be an easy fix (maybe not easy, but fixable). Deaths associated with childbirth were still quite high in the 1920s.


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## pacanis (Jan 29, 2013)

Addie said:


> Ah yes! As the saying goes.... "And the plot thickens." Daisy has some evidence that will free Mr. Bates. But will she be able to put it to use?


 
Daisy? Do you mean Anna, his wife?
Anyway, I know what happens there as I've just watched the next two weeks' episodes.

I didn't know Matthew wasn't returning though. Good spoiler. That should make finishing up the season interesting knowing that.


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## jabbur (Jan 29, 2013)

I was doing a search on the DA family to try and get all the relations straight and one website had the family tree.  It showed Sybil's death in childbirth so I knew that was coming and it told how Matthew "leaves the show" which I will not divulge here for those that want to find out in the normal course of viewing.


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## Addie (Jan 29, 2013)

pacanis said:


> *Daisy? Do you mean Anna, his wife?*
> Anyway, I know what happens there as I've just watched the next two weeks' episodes.
> 
> I didn't know Matthew wasn't returning though. Good spoiler. That should make finishing up the season interesting knowing that.


 
Yes, my boo boo. Daisy is the unhappy kitchen wench.


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## Kayelle (Jan 29, 2013)

I thought about buying and watching the rest of the season but I won't be doing that now. It's way too much fun to play the weekly guessing game here, not knowing for sure what will happen.

I agree that Cora is devoted to Robert. After all, she forgave him for loosing her entire family fortune. The death of Sibel is another matter with Robert.
I think Cora's "Americanism" will come into play when she considers the only reason that "Sir" Doctor was in charge was because of his social status. Grrrrrrrrrrr


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## pacanis (Jan 29, 2013)

jabbur said:


> I was doing a search on the DA family to try and get all the relations straight and one website had the family tree. It showed Sybil's death in childbirth so I knew that was coming and it told how Matthew "leaves the show" which I will not divulge here for those that want to find out in the normal course of viewing.


 

Thanks for the tip on the sites. Sometimes I will search something and now I will stop in case I run into a site that divulges things ahead of time.


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## pacanis (Jan 29, 2013)

Kayelle said:


> I thought about buying and watching the rest of the season but I won't be doing that now. It's way too much fun to play the weekly guessing game here, not knowing for sure what will happen.


 
I took a few hours off while tending to some things. That's enough. I'm dying to finish off the season  Which I will start here shortly.
But then what will I do?


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## Kayelle (Jan 29, 2013)

Gravy Queen said:


> Ooh , interesting on things that have been picked up that I didn't know at the time and now it all makes sense.



GQ, I'd love to have you expand on this up to the point of the death of Sybel.


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## jabbur (Jan 29, 2013)

I too was surprised by Isobel's actions hiring Ethel.  She's very passionate about "helping" people.  I laughed at the scene where she's trying to teach the "women" to sew.


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## tinlizzie (Jan 29, 2013)

One more little thing about Sunday's -- the business of the broken sauce near-disaster and Alfred (it was Alfred, wasn't it?) stepping in with the trick of beating in an egg to rescue it.  Made me wonder if men were not supposed to be involved with cooking at that time, i.e. Mrs. Patmore at DA and Isobel's Mrs. Bird, who just left in a huff.  {{Kidney souffle' ack ack}}  Also made me wonder further if that's so, was that true in France?  I think of French chefs generally being men (probably erroneous, but that's my impression of how it used to be).


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## pacanis (Jan 29, 2013)

I remember Alfred having worked in a hotel, but I don't remember where. He obviously picked up some tricks concerning food while there.

Well, I have finished season 3. I think the writers really went overboard with all that was going on this season. I don't recall the other two season's being filled with so much drama at every turn.

Carry on


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## jabbur (Jan 29, 2013)

If I remember, wasn't there something said when Alfred hired on about he'd rather be in the kitchen?


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## pacanis (Jan 29, 2013)

jabbur said:


> If I remember, wasn't there something said when Alfred hired on about he'd rather be in the kitchen?


 
Or was that Daisy saying she'd rather he be in the kitchen?


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## tinlizzie (Feb 12, 2013)

The latest DA Masterpiece ran for two hours last Sunday night.  I don't mind, but does that mean I'm an episode ahead of schedule now?  Those two hours were certainly chock-full of happenings.  I'm getting whiplash from the plot veering back and forth.  Never thought I'd find sympathy for Thomas, but Mrs. O'Brien has always been a sour note.  I bet the actor enjoys playing her, and she's awfully good at it.  Her subtle facial expressions say so much.  Don't you wonder about people like her who seem to just feel driven to sow seeds of discontent?  I kept expecting that someone would find the miserable Thomas hanging from a rafter.


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## pacanis (Feb 12, 2013)

I can't stand O'Brien's character. Just when you think she's going to soften a bit she manipulates another situation.  I still don't know what she had to gain by bringing Vera to the house and getting that snowball rolling.


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## Addie (Feb 12, 2013)

Well, they introduced two new characters to the plot. The niece who is in love with a married man, and the Editor who also is married and pursuing the lovely Lady from Downton Abby. And the plot thickens. 

My wife doesn't understand me and I will get a divorce and marry you. Oldest line in the world. But I love the other one. My wife is insane and I can't get a divorce.


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## jabbur (Feb 12, 2013)

I'm glad that Robert is softening some towards Matthew's vision for the place.  I also like that he is softening some towards his son-in-law Tom.  That whole dynamic was getting a bit tired.  I haven't figured out O'Brien either.  When this season started, I thought it was all about standing up for her nephew and trying to manipulate things to his advantage but now I'm not so sure that is all there is to her.  I'd like to see some more interaction between her and Cora.  She seems to just lurk around causing trouble.


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## pacanis (Feb 12, 2013)

I think Robert and Tom are getting along better because Tom is finally starting to play the part of what he married into. He it dressing for dinner and taking on more responsibility. He's not so much the Irish rebel. I agree, that interplay earlier in the season was getting real old.


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## tinlizzie (Feb 12, 2013)

Can't say as I liked the looks of Tom's rude brother - I suppose we must endure characters like him for the sake of drama.

The author has his hands full, adding more and more personalities.  Makes me think of the chariot race in Ben-Hur, all those reins to be controlled somehow.


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## pacanis (Feb 12, 2013)

hmmm, why did I just get a vision of O-Brien's head spinning around the axle of a chariot's wheels... That can't be normal 

Yes, lots of comings and goings. And the story would be just fine without. It makes me wonder if they will make a later appearance when the story needs an input of extra drama. Like the burn victim who said he was Patrick, or the farmer that wanted Mrs Hughes to leave with him. The new maid that came onto Robert, the new maid that came onto someone else (not sure if you've seen that one yet). Small stories within the story, but maybe introduced for future use.


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## Kayelle (Feb 12, 2013)

Am I the only one who didn't get the *soap *blackmail of O'Brien at first? It had been so long since I saw the episode when the evil O'Brien was responsible for Cora's miscarriage the first year of the series.
I guess they had to keep Thomas for making more trouble. I bet O'Brien really goes after him now, since he's the only one who knew about the soap.
I can hardly believe how fast this season went with next week being the end for the year.


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## buckytom (Feb 12, 2013)

i think this week's multiple twists and turns were to offset how easily predictable so many of the other plots have turned out. tom's giving in to playing cricket, then making a big play; moseley sucking at cricket after being the "ringer" since his dad was the groundskeeper; how 18 year pld rose partied like a teenager after several mentions of how she dislikes london, then the juxtaposition of how edith thought she was being pursued by a married man.

i'm both disappointed and still am a fan. these are not story arcs, but rather oddly woven threads that  because of  their historical value and human interaction keeps them interesting.


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## Kayelle (Feb 13, 2013)

Interesting and insightful observations on your part BT.
I enjoy this show for so many reasons besides just the stories of the characters, not the least of which is the eye candy of nearly every scene. The costuming and cinematography are really stunning. After I've watched an episode through the first time, I go back to pause some scenes for a snapshot. The scenes outside the church and the Cricket gathering were just two of them this time. Sigh, just beautifully done.


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## buckytom (Feb 13, 2013)

agreed, k-l. 

i love the outdoor scenes on the grounds as well, with the old oaks swaying in the breeze. this past week had a shot of highclere as seen from the road as a car drives up.

must be an impressive sight for tourists.


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## Kayelle (Feb 13, 2013)

We will be near there in Oct. BT and we so wanted to visit but they won't be open for tourists in the fall and winter. We may have a chance to see it from a distance, we'll see.


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## buckytom (Feb 13, 2013)

oh, i'm quite envious. 

although i might get an urge to grab a pitchfork and torch all the same. 
o


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## jabbur (Feb 13, 2013)

buckytom said:


> i think this week's multiple twists and turns were to offset how easily predictable so many of the other plots have turned out. tom's giving in to playing cricket, then making a big play; moseley sucking at cricket after being the "ringer" since his dad was the groundskeeper; how 18 year pld rose partied like a teenager after several mentions of how she dislikes london, then the juxtaposition of how edith thought she was being pursued by a married man.
> 
> i'm both disappointed and still am a fan. these are not story arcs, but rather oddly woven threads that  because of  their historical value and human interaction keeps them interesting.



I believe the adults were all saying her mother told them how much Rose hated London.  Obviously, it was a polite way for the mother to get her daughter out of town and away from the affair.  That way the mom didn't have to say "Please take my wild child and beat some sense into her!"


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## buckytom (Feb 13, 2013)

yes, but wbat i meant was that you could see something like that coming. they were telegraphing their pitches, to steal a baseball expression.


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## pacanis (Feb 18, 2013)

I just ran across this.
If anything can "spoil" DA, this just might be it. I may never watch it the same way again 

Jimmy Fallon - Downton Sixbey Episode 1: Late Night with Jimmy Fallon - YouTube


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## Soma (Feb 27, 2013)

I only just started watching it since recovering from heart surgery......lots of time on my hands to just sit......my DH bought the series, one at a time, from Amazon. He started at first downloading them one at a time from I-tunes but they were so slow to download (7 hours per episode) and sometimes they would stop in the middle while we were watching it. So once hooked, we bit the bullet and bought series 2 and 3 from Amazon. We're only on Episode 7 of series 3.

It's quite fun.....I wake up in the morning feeling more elegant and graceful sometimes.


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## Addie (Feb 27, 2013)

Soma said:


> I only just started watching it since recovering from heart surgery......lots of time on my hands to just sit......my DH bought the series, one at a time, from Amazon. He started at first downloading them one at a time from I-tunes but they were so slow to download (7 hours per episode) and sometimes they would stop in the middle while we were watching it. So once hooked, we bit the bullet and bought series 2 and 3 from Amazon. We're only on Episode 7 of series 3.
> 
> It's quite fun.....I wake up in the morning feeling more elegant and graceful sometimes.


 
Soorner or later, every show turns into a rerun. So why bother buying it. But for Downton Abby it is an investment that you will enjoy for years to come. You won't have to wait for it to become a rerun. I just wish I had the money to buy the complete series. What a nice husband. The show does grab you.


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## pacanis (Feb 27, 2013)

I can see me watching the last series again, before season 4 starts.


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## CWS4322 (Feb 28, 2013)

Addie said:


> Soorner or later, every show turns into a rerun. So why bother buying it. But for Downton Abby it is an investment that you will enjoy for years to come. You won't have to wait for it to become a rerun. I just wish I had the money to buy the complete series. What a nice husband. The show does grab you.


Another reason to get your % from the tribe.


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## Kayelle (Feb 28, 2013)

Addie said:


> Soorner or later, every show turns into a rerun. So why bother buying it. But for Downton Abby it is an investment that you will enjoy for years to come. You won't have to wait for it to become a rerun. I just wish I had the money to buy the complete series. What a nice husband. The show does grab you.



Addie, if your kids are like mine, they can never figure out what I really want for my birthday or Christmas gift. Send me their phone numbers and I'll I bet they'd love to know what you'd really like to have.


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## Addie (Feb 28, 2013)

Kayelle said:


> Addie, if your kids are like mine, they can never figure out what I really want for my birthday or Christmas gift. Send me their phone numbers and I'll I bet they'd love to know what you'd really like to have.


 
Next month is my birthday and my youngest asked what I wanted. I am getting the DVD set of the complete London performance of Les Miserables. I don't know what it cost but I knew it was out of my price range. I also have the complete musical score of Mama Mia. And the DVD. Next year I might ask for the score of Les Miserables. My kids know it is "music" they just don't know what I am into this week or next. One time it was Gregorian Chant. That  one threw them for a loop. Sometimes it is Latin Hymns. That one they don't understand at all. And to really confuse them, I can sing right along with the music and words. How do I know Latin? 

After I am gone and the family is sitting around the holiday table telling stories, they will have some real dillies to tell about me. "Hey do you remember Ma doing the dishes and singing in Latin?"


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## Addie (Mar 2, 2013)

On ABC News tonight;

Shirley McLaine will be returning next season and the hateful maid who is always stirring up trouble won't. We all know about the actor who played Mathew.


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## CWS4322 (Mar 2, 2013)

Season 1 is on CBC (French) on Saturday evenings. The war was just declared. It is funny listening to the voices used for the characters.


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## Gravy Queen (Mar 3, 2013)

Addie - I have the London 02 Les Mis DVD it is fantastic ! Samantha Barks who plays Eponine went on to get the part in the film . Alfie Boe as Jean Valjean is stunning . 

But back to Downtown - patiently waiting for series 4 here and the lovely Tom Ellis, an English actor is going to be in it, he very dishy .


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## Addie (Mar 3, 2013)

Gravy Queen said:


> Addie - I have the London 02 Les Mis DVD it is fantastic ! Samantha Barks who plays Eponine went on to get the part in the film . Alfie Boe as Jean Valjean is stunning .
> 
> But back to Downtown - patiently waiting for series 4 here and the lovely Tom Ellis, an English actor is going to be in it,* he very dishy* .


 
Be still my heart. I am too old for palpitations and flutterings of my heart. I just may swoon. Save me, save me!


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## Gravy Queen (Mar 3, 2013)

Keep smelling salts handy for an attack of the vapours dear lady !


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## CWS4322 (Mar 3, 2013)

Gravy Queen said:


> Keep smelling salts handy for an attack of the vapours dear lady !


OMG, that brought back an old memory. We put my cousin down the clothes shoot (don't ask). He fainted on the way down and I was told to run across the street and get the smelling salts (which, incidentally, were kept in our grandpareents' garage). My grandfather was a pharmacist. I don't even know if one could get smelling salts today (and have no idea why they were kept in the garage). I hadn't thought about that part of the event (and it was an event--and a much longer story than just putting my cousin down the clothes shoot). We all survived to adulthood and are all still alive today. 
I can't see Violet needing smelling salts.


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## Addie (Mar 3, 2013)

Yeah, they do sell smelling salts. All it is, is ammonia.


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## CWS4322 (Mar 3, 2013)

Addie said:


> Yeah, they do sell smelling salts. All it is, is ammonia.


They must have been ammonia salt, because they were in a jar and white crystals. I was so scared, I didn't smell them! At first we thought we had killed him...


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## Addie (Mar 3, 2013)

CWS4322 said:


> They must have been ammonia salt, because they were in a jar and white crystals. I was so scared, I didn't smell them! At first we thought we had killed him...


 
Back when dirt was first invented I came across a WWII first aid kit designed for battle. It had those salt crystals. I made the mistake of opening them and took a quick sniff. Won't make that mistake again. 

Poor cousin. The victim of just another of kids pranks.


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## CWS4322 (Mar 3, 2013)

When we all got together (8 kids) and left on our own when the parents + grandparents went to Winnipeg on "Black Friday", we were awful. I have to say that this was the last time they did that...my aunt's 90th b'day is in May. There is a big party planned and all the cousins and lots of their kids and grandkids will be there. My cousin has never forgiven me that I was 1/2" taller than he was (2 years younger) and wasn't the one to be dropped down the clothes shoot. I'm sure that will be one of the stories we recount. FWIW, the older cousins stood us back to back and because he was shorter, he was the one who got dropped down (2nd story). I was on the 1st story watching him pass by in that clothes shoot opening. Fortunately, my aunt had a big (4 ft x 4 ft) wooden box that was filled with dirty clothes. Otherwise he would have landed on the concrete floor. Long before the days of booster seats, seatbelts, and bicycle helmets. We survived.


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## buckytom (Mar 4, 2013)

i remember having fun dropping down a 20 ft. laundry chutes in a childhood friend's house onto a pile of clothes. 

back to downtown abbey and spoilers. whomever mentioned that matthew wouldn't be back made tbat final scene of season 3 somewhat ridiculous and badly directed/acted for me having fore-knowledge.

that dumb smile on his face, flipping hair in the wind while driving down the road was just so bad.


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## Gravy Queen (Mar 4, 2013)

Completely agree BT .


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