# Saeng Wa of Grilled Prawns



## outRIAAge (Jun 28, 2016)

*Saeng Wa of Grilled Prawns (Thai)​*
This is the most surprising, delicious thing I've ever eaten. The recipe source is David Thompson, but as written, it is very difficult to source, even in 2016. I'll expand the instructions a little, and suggest easier-to-source ingredients that make a close (and delicious) version accessible to anyone.

Thompson describes it as a perfect example of Thai Palace Cuisine: exquisitely prepared tiny plates.

(Just an aside, but humans have been writing recipes for thousands of years. Is it still really necessary to write "Ingredients" before listing the ingredients? And then "Instructions" before giving the instructions? Is that not a bit like writing "Wall" on every wall?)

1 tbs lime juice 
1 tbs mandarin juice 
A little Kaffir lime juice 
A little palm sugar 
1 tbs fish sauce 
2 scuds (hellishly hot green chillies) 
2 large Yamba prawns, grilled in their shells, then peeled and shredded 
2 stalks lemongrass, white parts only, VERY finely chopped.
2 tbs ginger julienne 
1 green or red chilli, julienned 
2 red shallots, sliced 
Mint and Coriander leaves

Make the sauce by pounding the scuds in a mortar then mixing in the other sauce ingredients. The taste should be hot, sour and salty. Combine all ingredients.

It is important to chop everything small enough so that every mouthful contains everything. Here's David Thompson again: 

"If you’ve ever tried to eat even very fine slices of raw lemongrass or ginger, it doesn’t seem like this would work at all. For some reason, when all the ingredients are combined, they become perfectly edible, their texture and flavor balancing out the dressed shrimps perfectly. The amount of shredding and the uncommon ingredients in this recipe suggest that it was originally royal food.”

So here's how to make it accessible: Kaffir lime juice? It tastes utterly bizarre, and you basically need your own Kaffir lime tree to get some. So of course I got my own Kaffir lime tree. The juice is incredibly soapy, and its main use is indeed as a shampoo. This is the only recipe I've ever seen it in. The rind is thick and lumpy, impossible to replicate, but you can get fairly close using lime and Meyer lemon juice and zest.

Palm sugar? Light brown sugar. Fish sauce? You need a really good one like Red Boat for this dish, but in the meantime try it with any fish sauce.

Utterly key is grilling the shrimp in their shells, and if you throw those crispy shells away after peeling them, you are not a serious cook.

There's far to much chest-pounding about how HOT Thai dishes should be, but this one really needs to push your envelope. Scuds? I'm guessing Thai bird chilies. As written, it's insanely hot, but if you de-seed the chilies and remove all the white pith, you might only need one or two Singha chasers.


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## CraigC (Jun 28, 2016)

You've actually made this with Kaffir lime juice and you grow them in Seattle? Got pictures?


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## outRIAAge (Jun 28, 2016)

I've got pictures, but need to find them. They show a healthy 5' tree in the springtime, literally bustin' out all over. It's a gorgeous plant. Unfortunately, it doesn't really work in Seattle, unless you have a greenhouse. It survived three winters indoors, literally dropping all its leaves (yum!) each time, but last winter the temperature got down to 31 F overnight before I brought it indoors, and that was that.


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## CraigC (Jun 28, 2016)

You mean something like these?


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## outRIAAge (Jun 28, 2016)

That looks like one of the few Kaffir limes I ever got from the dang thing. I'm not remotely a green-thumb, and it amazed me that it got fertilized in Seattle. If you can guarantee no freezing temperatures ever, it's a very purty plant, and friends line up for care packages.


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## CraigC (Jun 28, 2016)

If I walk out the side door, there is a kaffir lime tree, an Australian finger lime tree, galangal and lemon grass within 15' of each other. Your recipe is the first I have ever seen that uses the extremely bitter juice of the kaffir. I have inquired about using the juice but never got an answer.


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## medtran49 (Jun 29, 2016)

outRIAAge said:


> That looks like one of the few Kaffir limes I ever got from the dang thing. I'm not remotely a green-thumb, and it amazed me that it got fertilized in Seattle. If you can guarantee no freezing temperatures ever, it's a very purty plant, and friends line up for care packages.


 
Most citrus are self-pollinating.  If they don't bud and form fruit after getting established, they may need an extra dose of magnesium, which is easily accomplished by epsom salts.  Our finger lime and the Kaffir were having a bit of trouble getting down to business so I did some reading, started giving them a dose of epsom salts regularly and now they bloom like crazy and we have lots and lots of fruit.  I think the finger lime is much prettier than the kaffir personally.  Tiny dense leaves, small compact tree, only it has a surprise for the unwary - THORNS!  Got to protect those lovely little finger limes.


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## jennyema (Jun 29, 2016)

CraigC said:


> If I walk out the side door, there is a kaffir lime tree, an Australian finger lime tree, galangal and lemon grass within 15' of each other. Your recipe is the first I have ever seen that uses the extremely bitter juice of the kaffir. I have inquired about using the juice but never got an answer.



I am envious!!  I usually grow lemongrass, though not this year and would love to have those trees!

I've never seen a recipe (until now) that calls for using kaffir lime juice.  It's soapy?  Hmmmmm......


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## medtran49 (Jun 29, 2016)

jennyema said:


> I am envious!! I usually grow lemongrass, though not this year and would love to have those trees!
> 
> I've never seen a recipe (until now) that calls for using kaffir lime juice. *It's soapy? Hmmmmm......[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Oh, I forgot to mention that.  Not soapy to me, just bitter, bitter, bitter.


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## jennyema (Jun 29, 2016)

How does one SHRED a grilled prawn?


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## GotGarlic (Jun 29, 2016)

jennyema said:


> How does one SHRED a grilled prawn?



I guess when you work in the Thai king's palace kitchen, you end up doing some pretty tedious, fairly useless, jobs


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## jennyema (Jun 29, 2016)

GotGarlic said:


> I guess when you work in the Thai king's palace kitchen, you end up doing some pretty tedious, fairly useless, jobs


 
The King liked delicate presentations, I guess ...

Actually, I looked up the recipe in David Thompson's quintessential Thai Food cookbook and the prawns are in large chunks.  Less work!

I am going to make this soon!


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## outRIAAge (Jun 29, 2016)

jennyema said:


> How does one SHRED a grilled prawn?



Same way you would shred pulled pork: with two forks. You *could* just cut it up, but best to have small, irregular shreds that the other ingredients can get cosy with.

I only paid $35 for my lime tree, from a gardening place in Seattle, but I'll wait until I have greenhouse-access before I get another one. Luckily, lemongrass is a local weed: very easy to grow and hardy enough for Seattle.

If you'd rather just use the Inernet, LemonCitrusTree.com ships 3 different sizes, and guarantees them. Their biggest is ~$100 delivered, but they "can't ship to Alaska, Arizona, Florida, Hawaii or Texas due to USDA regulations." (Because they could escape and grow there, but no doubt also because they don't want Kaffir pollen around their citrus crops.)


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## CraigC (Jun 29, 2016)

outRIAAge said:


> If you'd rather just use the Inernet, LemonCitrusTree.com ships 3 different sizes, and guarantees them. Their biggest is ~$100 delivered, but they "can't ship to Alaska, Arizona, *Florida,* Hawaii or Texas due to USDA regulations." (Because they could escape and grow there, but no doubt also because they don't want Kaffir pollen around their citrus crops.)



That's funny as I live in south Florida and bought the kaffir and Australian finger lime locally. I'm sure they bought them wholesale. Most exotic citrus I believe has to be grafted onto lemon stock. I'm sure that is the case with Persian limes grow here. 

The citrus industry here got their arses handed to them during the year we had 4 hurricanes hit the state. The then governor and legislature in 2002, created a citrus canker eradication program. They passed a law to eliminate all "infected" trees and those with in 1900' of those trees, commercial or private. It only applied to the counties from the Palm Beach county northern line over to the west coast and south to Key West in Monroe county. Problem was, they couldn't point out the infected trees with in that 1900' zone and just started cutting them all down. All citrus trees were banned from purchase. The hurricane season of 2004 spread canker all over the state. Canker blemished the skin with no detriment to the pulp. The major use of Florida's citrus is juice, something canker doesn't effect.


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## jennyema (Jun 29, 2016)

outRIAAge said:


> Same way you would shred pulled pork: with two forks. You *could* just cut it up, but best to have small, irregular shreds that the other ingredients can get cosy with..)


 
Because shrimp firms up when you cook it, Im not envisioning a pulled pork sort of procedure, where the pork has broken down and can be pulled apart.

But DT book shows the prawns to be sliced or chunked -- good enough for me!





outRIAAge said:


> If you'd rather just use the Inernet, LemonCitrusTree.com ships 3 different sizes, and guarantees them. Their biggest is ~$100 delivered, but they "can't ship to Alaska, Arizona, Florida, Hawaii or Texas due to USDA regulations." (Because they could escape and grow there, but no doubt also because they don't want Kaffir pollen around their citrus crops.)


 
Thanks!  Now I'm very intrigued ...

I've got a freezer full of beautiful leaves but a tree would be cool!  Do they smell good?


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## CraigC (Jun 29, 2016)

Oh, yes the limes have a wonderful aroma, but that just masks the bitterness that very tempting smell hides in the fruit!


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## outRIAAge (Jun 29, 2016)

GotGarlic said:


> I guess when you work in the Thai king's palace kitchen, you end up doing some pretty tedious, fairly useless, jobs



Shredding shrimp? That ain't NUTTIN' compared to working the Korean president's kitchen, where your task for the morning might be beheading and de-gutting several thousand tiny dried anchovies (ikan bilis) for Korean dashi. I don't see the point of beheading, because there's plenty good flavour in the head, but de-gutting is mandatory for clean-tasting dashi. If you're not a purist, adding some ikan bilis to katsuobushi/kombu dashi gives a nice extra complexity.






(I like to stick to topic, but can't resist this quick aside: My dad was a "guest" of the Japanese in Singapore during WWII. He would summon our Siamese cat to dinner with "Ikan bilis! Ikan bilis!" He told us (fairly accurately) that it was Siamese for "little white fish", and it amazed us kids that the cat immediately understood what he meant...)


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## jennyema (Jun 29, 2016)

Yeah I've made that a few times .... It's not that horrible because the anchovies are really strong and go a long way with the kelp which is pretty easy.

I'm not cleaning that basket, though!!!


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## rodentraiser (Jun 29, 2016)

I'm wondering if you could sub Worcestershire sauce for the fish sauce. Isn't that what Worcestershire sauce is supposed to be - sort of?


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## GotGarlic (Jun 29, 2016)

rodentraiser said:


> I'm wondering if you could sub Worcestershire sauce for the fish sauce. Isn't that what Worcestershire sauce is supposed to be - sort of?



Have you had fish sauce? It's very different from Worcestershire sauce. Worcestershire is thicker, darker and has a more meaty flavor. You could use it, but it would be different.


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## outRIAAge (Jun 29, 2016)

rodentraiser said:


> I'm wondering if you could sub Worcestershire sauce for the fish sauce. Isn't that what Worcestershire sauce is supposed to be - sort of?



Not a chance. Worcestershire ("Wooster") sauce is indeed Asian, but it's a sauce with its own real flavours. Fish sauce is an MSG-heavy condiment, like greatly-amplified salt. I use it in everything, including ice cream, with no complaints. 

Take a deep breath, and embrace that funk!

Addendum: I've actually made fish sauce, without realizing it. I did fisheries research on the Hudson River for the NRC, monitoring the effect that the Indian Point nuclear power station was having on fish. It was the greatest job in the world, swanning around in fishing boats all day, except that we also had to count every last fish that the water-intake screens killed.

In the summer heat, they piled up several feet high on the sorting tables. If we didn't get to them quick enough, a disgusting thick brown stinky fluid would exude from them. We called it "mung" and tried to keep it off our clothes. That's a fair description of fish sauce. (Oh? Did I put you off?)


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## CraigC (Jun 30, 2016)

Worcestershire sauce, originated in India. L&P was the result of an attempt to recreate it in England, commissioned by a retired Bengal governer. The name was taken from his home town in England. Personally I prefer homemade, using a recipe from Emeril.


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## jennyema (Jun 30, 2016)

rodentraiser said:


> I'm wondering if you could sub Worcestershire sauce for the fish sauce. Isn't that what Worcestershire sauce is supposed to be - sort of?



No.  They don't taste similar at all.

Worcestershire sauce has anchovies and a bunch of other stuff in it.  Fish sauce is fermented fish and salt.

Using Worcestershire sauce as a sub would be a horrible mistake.  Plus you can buy fish sauce in regular grocery stores these days.


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## rodentraiser (Jul 2, 2016)

I've looked for fish sauce before and could never find it. That's why I asked about Worcestershire sauce. And isn't there an anchovy sauce as well?

Another item to check for in Trader Joe's.


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## outRIAAge (Jul 2, 2016)

rodentraiser said:


> I've looked for fish sauce before and could never find it. That's why I asked about Worcestershire sauce. And isn't there an anchovy sauce as well?



It's not hard to find these days, even in standard supermarkets. Most have "Taste of Thai" brand (which I don't recommend as a brand, but if you think for a second about what fish sauce IS, it's hard to imagine making a "bad" one: how exactly would it differ? 

An anchovy sauce? There's a whole universe of fish sauces out there, starting with the Ancient Roman garum made from fish guts and blood. It survives today as the Italian Colatura di Alici, which is made from whole anchovies and may be the one you have in mind (either that, or the one called Anchovy Essence.) Worcestershire is mostly made from anchovies.

There are about fifty different Asian styles, but of standard styles, Red Boat 40N from Pho Quoc in Vietnam is considered the pinnacle. To spot any good brand, look for one that contains only fish and salt as ingredients. 

Once you embrace the funk, you can explore its outer limits, which would be Padaek from Laos/Issan, a muddy-brown thick liquid with large lumps of fermented gourami-fish in it. I've bred gourami: they're wonderful fish. I've been staring at a bottle of the dang stuff for years now, and am *still* not tempted to open it.


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