# ISO help cooking with stainless steel????



## mcc1961 (Mar 25, 2011)

What is the trick to cooking in stainless steel?I tried to fry some potatoes and they stuck like super glue instantly.I used plenty of peanut oil.Can someone give me any pointers?


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## joesfolk (Mar 25, 2011)

In the words of Graham Kerr, "Hot pan, cold oil, foods won't stick." Hope this helps.
Also you need to give foods a chance to release.  Don't try to move them too soon.


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## Zereh (Mar 26, 2011)

I wasn't successful with my first couple of attempts at using SS either. I was actually in tears after my first use (trying to brown chicken) because it was such a fiasco.  I guess because it was a serious financial investment to buy them and I thought they'd work like magic in my kitchen. LOL And they do work wonderfully now, but only after doing some reading and practicing, it's easy peasy now!

*Why food sticks to stainless steel pans?*

Food that sticks is caused by chemical bonds that form between the food and the material of the pan - almost always a metal. These bonds may be relatively weak van der Waals forces or covalent bonds. Protein-rich foods are particularly prone to sticking because the proteins can form complexes with metal atoms, such as iron, in the pan.

*How to prevent sticking or why hot oil prevents sticking?*

The oil, being liquid, fills in the valleys and caves of the pan surface. Although the pan may look smooth at a microscopic level the surface of even the smoothest metal pan looks rough with hills, valleys and even caves. Hot oil is more viscous than cold oil and will immediately flow filling the gaps.

When oil in the pan gets hot enough a steam effect begins to occur --- 

"A small amount of oil added to a very hot pan almost instantly becomes very hot oil. The oil quickly sears the outside of the food and causes water to be released from the food. This layer of water vapor ("steam") lifts the food atop the oil film and keeps it from touching the hot pan surface. If the oil is not hot enough, the steam effect will not occur and the food will fuse to the (too) cool pan surface." Source: Ask a Scientist, Newton BBC

In addition very hot oil will react with the metal atoms of the pan and form a coating called a patina. This leaves few free metal atoms to react with the food. This coating can easily be removed by detergents, however, so it has to be reapplied before each use of the pan. In the case of cast-iron pans the patina becomes more permanent. It has been suggested that the patina could form by a sequence of cracking followed by polymerization. Source: Kitchen Chemistry, RSC

*Tips to prevent food from sticking*

1. Make sure the surface is clean. Small attached food particles can provide contact surfaces of the pan.

2. Make sure the food surface is dry and not too cold. Let food from the refrigerator rest for a while at room temperature. Cold meat sticks easily to stainless steel surfaces when cooked. Remember if the food surface has water it will lower the temperature of the oil and promote sticking. You can either pat the surface of the food dry or in the case of fish with skin, slide a knife blade over the skin to remove excess moisture. This will also allow for a crisper skin.

NOTE: some cooks prefer to add a small layer of oil to the surface of the dry food to help prevent sticking.

3.Make sure the oil is HOT. Either add cold oil to a hot pan or start with a cold pan and cold oil.

Both methods work fine. However we prefer adding cold oil to a hot pan.

--->_Advantages of cold oil to hot pan_ --a hot pan requires less oil to cover the surface perhaps as little as half as much. Hot oil is more viscous and immediately flows. Less oil will be also be needed to fill the micro-crevices and provide the necessary barrier between food and pan surface. In addition the reduced thermal trip to target temperature will cause the fat to deteriorate less.

*NOTE:* Some chefs however prefer adding cold oil to a cold pan some cooks prefer this technique because the appearance of the oil in the pan can give you some indication of when the pan has reached the proper temperature

*How to tell if the pan is hot enough so food won't stick*

The oil should begin to ripple, and spread quite quickly over the pan. If your pan was hot enough, this process should only take a 'few seconds' .

Ideally you want to add the food right before the smoke point. If you wait too long your pan will get too hot and the oil will start to smoke, then turn brown after which damage to you pan can occur.

The pan is hot enough if a few small drops of water flicked from your fingertips vaporize immediately, or if a larger drop of water hisses and floats across the surface of the pan on a cushion of its own steam.

With experience you will detect the exact time to add food to the hot oil.

-4. Don't crowd the pan. Crowding usually lowers the temperature and releases moisture into the pan. If moisture is released the temperature will go below that required to produce caramelization and the Maillard reaction. As a result no browning will occur.

5. Do not move the food to quickly. Even if some sticking has occurred it will most probably be released from the pan after a short time.

If food does stick and you are using a stainless steel pan, like all-clad, then lower the heat a little. The food will release on its own.

An exception is diced vegetables which need to be moved to prevent burning. A uniform application of oil will eliminate any sticking spots and produce an equally uniform sear. Heat your pan over a medium-high to high flame.

6. Listen to cooking sounds-- Sizzling yes --Splattering no

As long as you hear that sizzling sound then there's still water in the pan and foods won't burn. As soon as the sizzling stops that's when burning can happen.


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## powerplantop (Mar 26, 2011)

joesfolk said:


> In the words of Graham Kerr, "Hot pan, cold oil, foods won't stick." Hope this helps.
> Also you need to give foods a chance to release. Don't try to move them too soon.


 
Sorry but "Hot pan, cold oil, foods won't stick." is a myth.


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## bakechef (Mar 26, 2011)

Hot pan, cold oil seems to work the best for me.   

also for some odd reason, using real butter in a pan when cooking eggs seems to work very well for me, almost like having a non-stick pan.


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## powerplantop (Mar 26, 2011)

bakechef said:


> Hot pan, cold oil seems to work the best for me.


 
If you put cold oil into a hot pan it quickly becomes hot. The piont of waiting before adding oil is to prevent the oil from breaking down during heating of the pan. 

Hot pan, cold oil is the same as searing meat seals in the juices.


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## Andy M. (Mar 26, 2011)

powerplantop said:


> Sorry but "Hot pan, cold oil, foods won't stick." is a myth.




Which part are you taking issue with?  The "hot/cold" part or the "won't stick" part?


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## powerplantop (Mar 26, 2011)

Andy M. said:


> Which part are you taking issue with? The "hot/cold" part or the "won't stick" part?


 
If you add a lot of cold oil to a hot pan and before the oil heats up you add your meat it will stick. If you wait a bit you have hot oil.


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## Andy M. (Mar 26, 2011)

powerplantop said:


> If you add a lot of cold oil to a hot pan and before the oil heats up you add your meat it will stick. If you wait a bit you have hot oil.




Right.  You need both a hot pan and hot oil.  THEN you have a no stick situation.  The myth is that you have to add the oil after the pan is hot and that's not true.  I think Zereh's post says it all.


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## Robo410 (Mar 26, 2011)

hot pan, hot oil, room temp food, food needs to be dry (pat meat or potatoes etc with paper towel, season it, don't crowd the pan, don't move food around - let it cook a bit - jiggle it to release, and turn. 

There are some items that cook well in a non stick pan: eggs, scallops, hash browns, anything going from the freezer to the pan.


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## pacanis (Mar 26, 2011)

I've done both, cold/cold and hot/cold. I don't notice any difference in the stick/no stick either. And I too think Zereh's post pretty much nailed it.


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## jennyema (Mar 26, 2011)

powerplantop said:


> Hot pan, cold oil is the same as searing meat seals in the juices.




Searing meat doesn't "seal" in it's juices.


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## GB (Mar 26, 2011)

jennyema said:


> Searing meat doesn't "seal" in it's juices.



I think that is his point.


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## garlicjosh (Mar 28, 2011)

i'm with Zereh's post all the way.

The cold oil thing is bull. I keep my oil at room temp in a squeeze bottle. add the oil to my pan, turn on the burner and let the oil heat up. Once my oil is hot, i toss in my food and cook away.
you will have little bits of stuck stuff here and there...more often then not, that is the good stuff..


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## powerplantop (Mar 28, 2011)

jennyema said:


> Searing meat doesn't "seal" in it's juices.


 
That is what I was saying.


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## Skittle68 (Mar 28, 2011)

I need to get some new pans and I'm debating on whether to get stainless steel or Teflon. Any suggestions? Has anyone tried those ceramic nonstick pans you see in infomercials?


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## Andy M. (Mar 28, 2011)

I have mostly tri-ply SS pans.  So it's no surprise I think they're the best.  For the most part, Teflon pans aren't necessary.  They are very good for cooking eggs and a few other things.  Otherwise, SS tri-ply is your best bet for all around cooking.

It's also useful to have a cast iron skillet, a teflon 8" to 10" skillet and a heavy Dutch oven such as LeCrueset.


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## Skittle68 (Mar 28, 2011)

I do have a couple cast iron pans, and I really like them for some things, but they are so heavy! Not really my favorite all purpose pan. My reservation about Teflon is that it is so easily scratched. SS seems like it would be sooooo much more durable. And with these tips I think I would be fine with it


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## Selkie (Mar 28, 2011)

Skittle68 said:


> I need to get some new pans and I'm debating on whether to get stainless steel or Teflon. Any suggestions?...



Non-stick won't give you any of the little super tasty bits (fond) that come from browning meats and left behind stuck to the bottom of the pan when it comes time to make your sauce or gravy.

I have both non-stick, cast iron and stainless steel in 10" pans (a size I prefer), depending on what it is that I intend to cook.


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## pacanis (Mar 28, 2011)

I've got all three, too, CI, SS and non-stick. It all depends on what I am cooking as to which one I grab. Just like it all depends on what needs hittin' as to which hammer I grab.


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## GB (Mar 28, 2011)

Skittle68 said:


> My reservation about Teflon is that it is so easily scratched.


It is only easily scratched if you do not treat it right (using metal utensils in it). If you treat it right it will not scratch.


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## taxlady (Mar 28, 2011)

GB said:


> It is only easily scratched if you do not treat it right (using metal utensils in it). If you treat it right it will not scratch.



That's easy, if you are the only one who ever uses and washes it. My DH is trustworthy in that department, but I have had bad experiences with my enamelled cast iron and people scrubbing with steel wool and worse.


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## Andy M. (Mar 28, 2011)

taxlady said:


> ...but I have had bad experiences with my enamelled cast iron and people scrubbing with steel wool and worse.




Your enameled CI is much harder than steel wool and shouldn't be harmed by it.


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## garlicjosh (Mar 28, 2011)

I only have 2 Teflon pans in my house. I have a 10 inch for making eggs and omelets in and a 12 inch for stirfry (not cool enough for a wok) past that, they are not nessacery. My mom tries to use them for everything..and due to using them every day, they seem to fall apart pretty fast..plus they tend to be cheap. If you buy a Teflon pan, I would advise ordering one from a cooking warehouse..those things are tough as cast iron and will last forever for the average cook. However, for my every day cooking, my stainless steel and cast iron collections are my weapons of choice...actually, I keep a stainless steal fry pan and my double burner cast iron skillet on my stove at all times.
Hope that helps


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## taxlady (Mar 28, 2011)

Skittle68 said:


> I need to get some new pans and I'm debating on whether to get stainless steel or Teflon. Any suggestions? Has anyone tried those ceramic nonstick pans you see in infomercials?



I hate non-stick. I am very happy with my (actually DH's) Lagostina stainless steel set. It's a great complement to the enamelled cast iron stuff.

I never even heard of the ceramic non-stick pans.

I have some baking stuff that is non-stick and it's awful. It's called "Baker's Secret". Stuff sticks worse to it and it's hard to clean.


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## taxlady (Mar 28, 2011)

Andy M. said:


> Your enameled CI is much harder than steel wool and shouldn't be harmed by it.



Well, you're not doing the dishes at my house (I know, big loss ).

The instructions say not to use abrasive scrubbers. They still cook fine, but the enamel got scratched and they don't clean as easily.


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## bakechef (Mar 28, 2011)

taxlady said:


> I hate non-stick. I am very happy with my (actually DH's) Lagostina stainless steel set. It's a great complement to the enamelled cast iron stuff.
> 
> I never even heard of the ceramic non-stick pans.
> 
> I have some baking stuff that is non-stick and it's awful. It's called "Baker's Secret". Stuff sticks worse to it and it's hard to clean.



Non-stick bakeware has to be the worst.  How are you supposed to run something around baked goods to allow them to release without scratching the pan, this I have yet to figure out.  

After the first scratch it will rust and be completely useless.


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## Selkie (Mar 28, 2011)

bakechef said:


> Non-stick bakeware has to be the worst.  How are you supposed to run something around baked goods to allow them to release without scratching the pan, this I have yet to figure out.
> 
> After the first scratch it will rust and be completely useless.



I've found that a narrow silicone spatula works fine in running around a meatloaf or quick bread in a non-stick loaf pan, or a cake in a non-stick form. I sometimes use a heavy-duty nylon frosting knife. There are many non-metallic utensils available.


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## garlicjosh (Mar 28, 2011)

bakechef said:


> Non-stick bakeware has to be the worst.  How are you supposed to run something around baked goods to allow them to release without scratching the pan, this I have yet to figure out.
> 
> After the first scratch it will rust and be completely useless.



I have non stick bakeware not because it's non stick but because it's easy to find.
I line post of it with parchment paper and use the parchment for easy release of most things. for others,grease the pan like it's a "stick" pan and flour it/corn starch it..depending on what I am cooking.
I have never had a problem with any of my non stick bake ware getting scratched up, other then the people who use a fork to pull lasagna out of the pan..but i've moved onto glass for that one


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## bakechef (Mar 28, 2011)

garlicjosh said:


> I have non stick bakeware not because it's non stick but because it's easy to find.
> I line post of it with parchment paper and use the parchment for easy release of most things. for others,grease the pan like it's a "stick" pan and flour it/corn starch it..depending on what I am cooking.
> I have never had a problem with any of my non stick bake ware getting scratched up, other then the people who use a fork to pull lasagna out of the pan..but i've moved onto glass for that one



I now use a parchment "sling" in my non-stick bakeware pans, makes life easier.  

I am looking to upgrade my 2 brownie pans (8x8 square) soon and get rid of my last 2 non-stick pans.


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## simonbaker (Mar 28, 2011)

I like teflon frying pans for chicken breasts marinated in honey & garlic, no matter what ss always sticks for me.


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## quidscribis (Mar 30, 2011)

GB said:


> It is only easily scratched if you do not treat it right (using metal utensils in it). If you treat it right it will not scratch.


While I grant you that that may be true of good quality non-stick, it isn't true of all.

I lived in Sri Lanka 8 years and bought non-stick/Teflon there a few times. I know how to treat it properly, including never let metal anywhere near it. The non-stick stuff there still bubbles, peels, scratches, falls off anyway. It's awful. It's also a fact of life there that teflon will do that and everyone knows it. It does not last.

It's also possible, perhaps even likely, that the factory rejects were sent to Sri Lanka.


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## garlicjosh (Mar 30, 2011)

quidscribis said:


> While I grant you that that may be true of good quality non-stick, it isn't true of all.
> 
> I lived in Sri Lanka 8 years and bought non-stick/Teflon there a few times. I know how to treat it properly, including never let metal anywhere near it. The non-stick stuff there still bubbles, peels, scratches, falls off anyway. It's awful. It's also a fact of life there that teflon will do that and everyone knows it. It does not last.
> 
> It's also possible, perhaps even likely, that the factory rejects were sent to Sri Lanka.



Lesser quality product can and will be scratched by just about anything and everything you put to it. It's sort of ridiculous.
If you are going to buy Teflon for your kitchen...might as well spend a little cash on it


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## quidscribis (Mar 30, 2011)

garlicjosh said:


> Lesser quality product can and will be scratched by just about anything and everything you put to it. It's sort of ridiculous.
> If you are going to buy Teflon for your kitchen...might as well spend a little cash on it


The stuff I'm talking about includes internationally recognized brands that did cost a fair bit. Couldn't tell by looking at it that it was subpar. And yet...

I had one teflon pan that bubbled noticeably the first time I used it. It happens.

ETA: Point being that brands and/or money spent is not always an indication of quality.


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## garlicjosh (Mar 30, 2011)

quidscribis said:


> The stuff I'm talking about includes internationally recognized brands that did cost a fair bit. Couldn't tell by looking at it that it was subpar. And yet...
> 
> I had one teflon pan that bubbled noticeably the first time I used it. It happens.
> 
> ETA: Point being that brands and/or money spent is not always an indication of quality.



No, not always, hence why reading product reviews from trusted sources is always wise. Granted I spent roughly 10 bucks on restaurant quality non stick cookware while others spend like 35 for the same thing..but in general, the basic consumer grade stuff that stands up, tends to run a bit more...people tend to spend less and expect some sort of great response.
I know people who have spent mad cash on a brand that every review was "meh" at best but after I went and was like "ok seriously..stop replacing pans, go buy a T-Fal, wash it and treat it like this and carry on" it was fine... so your point is only true hit and miss..there is always exceptions. 
my point being...know your product before you buy it.


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## Selkie (Mar 30, 2011)

quidscribis said:


> The stuff I'm talking about includes internationally recognized brands that did cost a fair bit. Couldn't tell by looking at it that it was subpar. And yet...
> 
> I had one teflon pan that bubbled noticeably the first time I used it. It happens.
> 
> ETA: Point being that brands and/or money spent is not always an indication of quality.



While I currently invest in one piece of quality cookware every two or three months, I think it's interesting that the most useful pot I have is also the oldest (15+ years) and what I consider my "go to" pot whenever I need some dish in a hurry. It's a 1-quart Wear-Ever non-stick pot without a lid. It has a few scratches in the bottom from ex's abuse, but the rest is still in great condition. It uses a "Silverstone-like" coating that has never flaked or worn thin, and using only wooden or plastic utensils has helped. There's no heavy heat diffuser on the bottom, it's all the same thickness, and the outside is some enamel-like non-stick glazing that wipes clean with a damp dish cloth. So when I want some instant potatoes, oatmeal, rice, reheated gravy or any other mundane dish, that's the pot I nearly always use.

It was probably less than $10 US when it was new, but I wouldn't sell it for anything now. It's like an old, reliable friend.


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## bakechef (Apr 1, 2011)

I remember a roommate having a really hard time with nonstick cookware.  She went through set after set of T-fal, only to find out that Electrosol dishwasher detergent was the culprit.  I remember seeing one brand actually recommending against using Electrosol with their cookware, it was too harsh.

After switching, she had no other problems.


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## GB (Apr 1, 2011)

I have never known of any non stick cookware that was dishwasher safe.


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## bakechef (Apr 1, 2011)

GB said:
			
		

> I have never known of any non stick cookware that was dishwasher safe.



I don't think that it is recommended.  I won't buy cookware that can't be thrown in the dishwasher.  I have a wearever skillet that I have used for over a decade that survives the dishwasher quite well, luckily!


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## Andy M. (Apr 1, 2011)

GB said:


> I have never known of any non stick cookware that was dishwasher safe.




For the past ten years, I have been using a 3-skillet, non-stick set I bought for $23.  I regularly put them in the DW.  If it's causing damage, It's not evident.


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## GB (Apr 1, 2011)

That is good to know Andy. Do you recall if the manufacturer said anything about it in the literature when you bought it?

Any non stick pan I have ever bought always came with he warning that it was not dishwasher safe. I always just assumed that the detergent was too harsh for the non stick coating. It was a non issue for me though because I find it easier to hand wash non stick than take up the space in the dishwasher. They clean up so quickly and easily with just a few wipes of a sponge or cloth.


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## Andy M. (Apr 1, 2011)

I believe they were made by Bialetti.  It was a Costco bargain pack.  I don't recall reading any warnings on the subject, but I may have forgotten.

Because of what most DW detergents will do to unprotected aluminum, I don't put aluminum pans (coated or uncoated) in the DW.  The Bialetti skillets are enameled so that's not an issue.

They are just now beginning to lose their super slipperiness so I may have to breakdown and buy another set.  I stack my 9-10 skillets in a stack in a cabinet so that may have something to do with it.


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## Alix (Apr 1, 2011)

GB, I believe its not the soap in the DW but rather the fact that the pegs end up scratching the finish. There is really no way to put them in there without them shifting and getting damaged. 

Andy, I crocheted a couple of dishcloth sized cloths to go in between my frying pans so they could nest without scratching each other. I'm sure regular rags or dishcloths would work just as well.


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## taxlady (Apr 1, 2011)

Alix said:


> GB, I believe its not the soap in the DW but rather the fact that the pegs end up scratching the finish. There is really no way to put them in there without them shifting and getting damaged.
> 
> Andy, I crocheted a couple of dishcloth sized cloths to go in between my frying pans so they could nest without scratching each other. I'm sure regular rags or dishcloths would work just as well.



That's a great idea Alix. I just got more Copco, enamelled CI pots and haven't even found a place for them yet. I know I will have to stack, them so your tip is very timely.


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## pacanis (Apr 1, 2011)

Andy M. said:


> For the past ten years, I have been using a 3-skillet, non-stick set I bought for $23. I regularly put them in the DW. If it's causing damage, It's not evident.


 
I've got two non-stick items that said not DW safe, the others I put in the DW and they've been just fine.


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## Oldvine (Apr 3, 2011)

Sorry, I can't help.  Off and on for over 50 years I have tried to fry potatoes in a stainless pan, no luck.  Cast iron or non-stick for me.


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## blissful (Apr 5, 2011)

These dishwasher tips will extend the life of the dishwasher racks and help not scratch non-stick pans.
I don't know where I bought mine.
Appliance Zone - Product: White Dishwasher Rack Tine Tips - 675679


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