# Angus beef is superior



## Phil

I've grilled too many steaks not to be totally convinced that angus beef is superior. At least here in Texas. I simply couldn't be more pleased with the last four rib-eyes I've grilled, unless they were free.  Every bite is, wow! They have more flavor and are far more tender than anything else I've bought. They are higher priced, but I don't care. On sale in the Dallas area, they are $7 a pound. And if you're new to grillin' steaks, buy your steaks at least an inch thick. If you marinade, you needn't do so longer than one hour. Get your grill 425, or upwards and sear, covered, each side one minute, then continue cooking. Turn with tongs, don't pierce the steak.  A medium rare steak, at one inch thick, should take about 7-8 minutes. I can cook a steak with a red center with no blood on the plate. And the real secret? Let the steaks rest for five minutes before serving. Salt 'n pepper 'n eat. It doesn't get better for me. Happy grillin'
Phil


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## Ishbel

I dispute that!  The BEST steaks are Aberdeen Angus (where do you think the Texan herds got their breeding bulls from?!!!) and are just wonderful meat!    The cost of steaks in the UK would bring tears to your eyes - yours appear cheap by comparison!


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## TATTRAT

Herferd or Alberta Blue Blood are superiour products. the cattle you have in TX are great, but can vary in consistancy. Of course a ribyeye should always be wow, it is the best for the wow factor do to all the yummy fat and marbeling....man I want a steak now.


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## Gretchen

A good steak can always be a big wow. Just don't mess up good beef with a marinade.


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## GB

Kobe beef anyone?


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## Gretchen

GB said:
			
		

> Kobe beef anyone?


 
Not necessarily better flavored however. What are your criteria?


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## GB

I was just asking Gretchen as I have not yet had the pleasure of tasting Kobe. I was just putting it out there to see what others though in comparison to the others already mentioned.


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## TATTRAT

The only times I've have had Kobe was when I was living in Holland and the price was AWESOME compared to the U.S. 

the flavor wasn't all I was thinking it was cracked up to be. Don't get me wrong it was darn good, but I can't see paying the huige fees here for it. The texture was buttery soft though, but not too unlike the dry aged beef you can get at Peter Lugers. Kobe=$50 Hamburger...that is just rediculous. I think it is all the hype you hear then it can be an anticlimax when you actually get to try it, jmo.


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## ChefJune

I like to buy steak from a farmer at the Greenmarket, Hawthorn Valley Farms, that raise everything (animal  and vegetable) biodynamically.  It's VERY expensive, ($17.95 per pound for Porterhouse) but I know they are grass fed, well treated, and DEEE Licious! Don't have them on a regular basis, either!


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## Steve A

As a chef, a griller and a former meat cutter I'll weigh in on this discussion.

The breed of animal is less important than other items. Diet and exercise are HUGE indicators of the muscle's flavor and texture. Want to experiment? Put a Holstein, Angus and, perhaps, a Charlais, in same the conditions and on the same feed. *IF* you can tell the difference, I'd be grately surprised.

Ciao,


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## ChefJune

I'm with you, Steve....  my mom's family raised beef and pork for market, and cows for dairy... yearly they butchered a Guernsey steer for beef... and it was always delicious.


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## Shunka

I have to agree with Steve A. also. Growing up on different ranches, I was able to taste different breeds (in steak, roast, etc. form). It all depends on the feed, enviroment, etc. Also the age of the cattle at time of slaughter matters too.


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## Mylegsbig

im in texas as well and i have had alot of prime, angus, and washington kobe beef, and washington kobe beef is by far the best.


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## Michael in FtW

LOL ... easy Ishbel ....  

Most people don't know one cow from another. 

I agree with Phil - Angus is about as good as it gets. I actually prefer the Red Angus - not the more common Black Angus - it's closer to the original Aberdeen Angus.

If you grew up on a farm - you'll know about this stuff ...


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## The Z

I grew up on a farm in Iowa.  We raised both red/black Angus and Charlais.  I cannot tell the difference in taste.


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## ChefScotty

Mylegsbig said:
			
		

> im in texas as well and i have had alot of prime, angus, and washington kobe beef, and washington kobe beef is by far the best.


Can you tell me where in WA this beef is coming from please?    Our Wagyu is coming from KBA which is in Bend OR but if someone else in the NW is producing it would be great to know.    Thanks.


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## ironchef

Kobe beef rocks. Alberta beef is probably second. Niman Ranch is third. But that's just my tastes. This a Kobe striploin:


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## Mylegsbig

ChefScotty said:
			
		

> Can you tell me where in WA this beef is coming from please?    Our Wagyu is coming from KBA which is in Bend OR but if someone else in the NW is producing it would be great to know.    Thanks.



Scotty i was mistaken.  The Washington Kobe beef ive tried has been at a sushi joint around here.

The one i get from my butcher is also from KBA, and i am not sure where it comes from.  My apologies.


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## TATTRAT

ironchef said:
			
		

> Kobe beef rocks. Alberta beef is probably second. Niman Ranch is third. But that's just my tastes. This a Kobe striploin:



THANK YOU! ALBERTA(blue blood) IS AWESOME BEEF! So many people here don't know what I am talking about, but as mentioned in my other post, I LOVE ALBERTA BEEF!


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## Ishbel

I had a look in my butcher's window this morning... Aberdeen Angus fillet steak is on 'sale' (!) for 21 GB pounds per kilo.


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## ChefScotty

Ishbel said:
			
		

> I had a look in my butcher's window this morning... Aberdeen Angus fillet steak is on 'sale' (!) for 21 GB pounds per kilo.



That's $18/# which is pretty much what anything decent retail is over here.   At least in the UK you're buying 100% tenderloin and they at least have the decency to sell the tail separately for a lot less than the good stuff.   I hate the way they sell it retail here.    I don't think the retail meat cutters have ever seen a whole tenderloin, they just get the end bits that don't go to restaurants and then proceed to just make steaks out of them so you get the chain and everything in your 'filet mignon'.

What really angers me is they ramped the price up here about 3 years ago because of some mad Canadian cow or something and as always, it just stayed where it was when it all cleared and kept going up.

Many fond memories of the days when the UK govt banned the sale of bone in beef and my butcher slipped me bone in prime rib at the back door when it got dark for our Sunday dinner at home.


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## Ishbel

according to today's exchange rates that 40 dollars plus a few cents. which is approx 20 dollars per (imperial) pound, if we were still allowed to use lb! I thought the prices of US/Canadian beef were way lower than ours?


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## Alix

I've been quiet til now, but I am going to weigh in with the Alberta Beef lovers. I am from Alberta and have grown accustomed to the quality of beef I get (from the grocery store, the butcher, buying straight from the farmer or off the back of a truck) and when I travel I rarely order beef having had it come looking and tasting like shoe leather. I've traveled widely all over N. America and into Europe and have yet to find tastier beef. (I will admit Kobe is priced insanely and so I have not tried it.)

Ishbel, I admit, I have not had your Aberdeen beef, having not had the pleasure yet of travelling to the British Isles. I will make sure I do try it when I get there though.


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## Ishbel

Alix: The more I read about the relative merits of various meats - Scotch beef vs Texan or Canadian - or Welsh lamb vs Scottish lamb... the more I am sure that meat, well raised and butchered tastes best when it is the local produce. So, perhaps the wonderful Texan beef or even, dare I say it, Alberta beef would be just run of the mill here, and so would Aberdeen Angus if it was shipped to the US or Canada!  

Although, I have to say, some of the best beef I've ever eaten was on Cyprus.. when I raved about the beef to the chef, he told me it was 'chilled' (not frozen) beef, directly from Northern Ireland!


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## Constance

I lived in Texas for a while, and had some wonderful Texas Beef while I was there. A lot of restaurants in this area get Kansas City beef, which is awfully good, and one of the best steaks I've ever eaten was at Mr. Bennie's in Chicago.
A lot of cattle are grown around here...Black Angus and Charlais, mainly.

But stay away from "limousine beef", whatever that is. My FIL used to buy us a half a beef every year when the kids were little, and he bought the limosine beef a couple of times. It was tough as shoe leather.


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## Mylegsbig

Ishbel said:
			
		

> according to today's exchange rates that 40 dollars plus a few cents. which is approx 20 dollars per (imperial) pound, if we were still allowed to use lb! I thought the prices of US/Canadian beef were way lower than ours?



Ishbel, for american kobe beef tenderloin, i pay over 30 dollars a pound


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## kitchenelf

Alix - didn't you send me an e-mail one time referencing Alberta beef?    

I envy all of you living in/around/near places with superior beef.  This is one conversation I truly know nothing about.  I did have a Kobe burger one time - it wasn't that good, but I do like my burgers on the rare-ish side and this was done about 30 minutes before they took it off the grill - I'm sure that had a lot to do with it.


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## Alix

kitchenelf said:
			
		

> Alix - didn't you send me an e-mail one time referencing Alberta beef?


 
I just got some more Alberta Beef pix...want I should share?   Good to see you here my friend, I've been missing you!


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## FryBoy

Gretchen said:
			
		

> A good steak can always be a big wow. Just don't mess up good beef with a marinade.


 
*Tell it, sister! Halleluiah! *

Good meat needs nothing but a a rub of olive oil, a touch of salt and freshly ground black pepper before tossing it on the fire. 

Marinades are for tough or flavorless cuts, IMHO.


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## Mylegsbig

I cook my kobe filets by rubbing them with sea salt, tons of coarse cracked pepper, and olive oil.  i then sear them in a steel skillet for 2 minutes a side and throw them in a 450 degree oven for 6-7 minutes for a nice pinkness all the way through.  i top them with some garlic butter that i have sauteed for a while, with finely minced garlic


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## kitchenelf

Alix said:
			
		

> I just got some more Alberta Beef pix...want I should share?   Good to see you here my friend, I've been missing you!



you had to ask????


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## RPCookin

Having just returned from 3 weeks in Italy, of which 8 days were spent in exploring Tuscany and Chianti, I have to chime in on this discussion.  I had some of the best beef I've ever eaten, and I didn't even have what the region is famous for... Bistecca alla Fiorentina.  The cattle are Chianina (pronounced ka-nee-na), they are pure white and they are huge, and there many breeds in the US that have been crossed at some point with Chianina.  And the porterhouse cuts that are used in the above dish are also much larger than we are used to (which is why I never got to try it... my wife and I together could never have eaten one).  I had sirloin twice and a filet once and all were incredible.

See this site for some info on these cattle. http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/chianina/

As far as eating beef locally, we have bought our beef for several years on the hoof from a farming friend who raises about 25 head of herefords a year just for sale locally.  He buys weaned calves at auction, runs them on the range and feeds them his own mix till the next February, then sends them to the packer as yearlings.  They are raised with no steroids, and no antibiotics unless actually needed.  His customers (me in this case) give their custom cutting instructions to the packer, and pick up the beef cut, packaged, and quick frozen.  This is hands down the best beef I've ever eaten on this side of the Atlantic, and that includes going to some ridiculously overpriced, ritzy steakhouses.


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## Phil

*I'm still lovin' angus here....*

because, on sale at $7.99 a lb., it's hard to beat. Last week we had a shoulder roast cooked as a pot roast and I told my wife that if we could have it this good everytime, I'd take this in place of turkey and dressing on Thanksgiving. That was the best roast I ever ate. I give my wife all the credit on that one. After my original post of "superior" beef, what I really meant to say is that the angus beef, in my neck of the woods, is superior to "supermarket" beef. From ground beef to rib-eyes, I really enjoy it. The real joy is I get to grill year round here in Texas.


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## jpmcgrew

Gretchen,I agree totally! No marinade on a good steak or maybe just a little worchestershire before cooking.
I know some people who buy the most expensive cuts of meat and I mean expensive and then totally destroy the meat with a whole bunch of beef rub seasoning followed by a whole bunch of dry herbs and then soaked in a ton of worchestershire OVERNIGHT no less, by the time its cooked it tastes nothing like the meat but just of seasonings.Bleech.I cant convince them other wise.
I believe people tend to over marinade most meats any way, its supposed to enhance the meat not turn it it into a ,a a, I dont know what.


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## Phil

*And....*



			
				jpmcgrew said:
			
		

> Gretchen,I agree totally! No marinade on a good steak or maybe just a little worchestershire before cooking.
> I know some people who buy the most expensive cuts of meat and I mean expensive and then totally destroy the meat with a whole bunch of beef rub seasoning followed by a whole bunch of dry herbs and then soaked in a ton of worchestershire OVERNIGHT no less, by the time its cooked it tastes nothing like the meat but just of seasonings.Bleech.I cant convince them other wise.
> I believe people tend to over marinade most meats any way, its supposed to enhance the meat not turn it it into a ,a a, I dont know what.


Thanks for not mentioning "Ketchup".


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## Katie H

Phil said:
			
		

> Thanks for not mentioning "Ketchup".



Pure sacrilege!!  Ketchup!

Buck and I enjoy a beautiful piece of beef with no additives except some garlic salt...after it's come off the grill.  This way we can enjoy the full flavor of the meat.

I might also add that we like ours with the "moo" slapped out of it and the center nicely pink.


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## Mr. P

Katie E said:
			
		

> *Pure sacrilege!!  Ketchup!*
> 
> Buck and I enjoy a beautiful piece of beef with no additives except some garlic salt...after it's come off the grill.  This way we can enjoy the full flavor of the meat.
> 
> I might also add that we like ours with the "moo" slapped out of it and the center nicely pink.



Agreed! Anyone that adds ketchup OR cooks/orders well done a beautiful piece of beef should be shot on site!


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## Katie H

Sadly, Mr. P, my mother cooked steaks until they could be used to shingle a roof.  I don't know how my father stood it because he liked his barely warmed up.  I guess that's why he always ordered steak when we went out for dinner.


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## jpmcgrew

Ketchup?Ketchup? I love ketchup but only for certain things.Oh my goodness what better way to ruin a good piece of prime beef.,steak etc.Ketchup is pretty good on a burger but is much better on french fries.
Did you know that the germans like to eat their fries with mayonaise ?


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## jpmcgrew

Yes over cooking is so,so bad why do some people just not get it?I worked at a a place when someone would keep sending back a piece of meat over and over because they wanted it more done,we would just finally put it in the microwave and really kill it and then they were happy.SHOE LEATHER!


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

Steve A said:
			
		

> As a chef, a griller and a former meat cutter I'll weigh in on this discussion.
> 
> The breed of animal is less important than other items. Diet and exercise are HUGE indicators of the muscle's flavor and texture. Want to experiment? Put a Holstein, Angus and, perhaps, a Charlais, in same the conditions and on the same feed. *IF* you can tell the difference, I'd be grately surprised.
> 
> Ciao,



From personal experience, I concure with Steve.  Better flavor is the result of good feed, be it high quality grass, or good corn finishing.  Add to this a reasonable amount of exersice to "beef-up" the beef, bbut not so much as to make the muscles tough and too lean.  In addition, the extra blood flow to the muscles gives them more flavor.

I have heard the benefits of Black Angus ever since I lived in San Diego where they had Black Angus restaurants.  The breed produces a very meaty animal.  But so does a Charlais.  And as for the Kobe, it is exclusivity that drives the price to such an exhorbitant sum.  For the beef to be Kobe, it must come from the Kobe valley at the base of Mount Fuji in Japan.

American Wagyu beef is of the same breed, but has been grown in the U.S. and therefore cannot be called Kobe.  It's like calling a sparkling wine Campaigne when it was actually produced in Nappa Valley.  It is against the commonly accepted rules of etiquette, and indeed, is protected against by various organizations.  I have not personally had the opportunity to eat Wagyu, but would love to one day.

I guess this whole thing is like trying to say that speckled trout taste better than do rainbow trout.  I do know my trout.  And I can testify that both species, when taken from the same stream, and of equal size, once cooked, are equal in flavor, texture, and even flesh color.  But the quality of the one speckled trout versus another can vary dramatically depending on the waters from which it is caught, and by how it came into the world.  Wild trout are far superior in quality to their planted brothers and sisters.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Mr. P

jpmcgrew said:
			
		

> Ketchup?Ketchup? I love ketchup but only for certain things.Oh my goodness what better way to ruin a good piece of prime beef.,steak etc.Ketchup is pretty good on a burger but is much better on french fries.
> Did you know that the germans like to eat their fries with mayonaise ?


Mayo is great on fries! Really it is.


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## Andy M.

I like mayo on FF also.


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## Phil

*Sad...*



			
				Mr. P said:
			
		

> Agreed! Anyone that adds ketchup OR cooks/orders well done a beautiful piece of beef should be shot on site!


I'd be eating with a dead wife She is a texture freak and likes her beef almost burned. She could be just as happy, if not more so, with a ground angus beef patty as with the rib-eye. She hates the texture of mushrooms and will actually become sick if confronted with liver. However......
I have learned to appreciate the charcoal grill from a friend with trial and error. Gas grilling is easier and is more of a consistant heat source, but the Webber grill has produced some of the finest char-broiled beef I've ever eaten. The Webbers' design, and the fact you can produce a very hot bed of coals, (and wood), at 500 +, allows me to cook an inch thick steak, with a hot pick center and, the most important, no blood in the plate. I care not about the scientific principles involved in the process, just the fact that I can predict the outcome of a steak using this method. It's heaven on earth when this happens.


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## Corey123

Phil said:
			
		

> I've grilled too many steaks not to be totally convinced that angus beef is superior. At least here in Texas. I simply couldn't be more pleased with the last four rib-eyes I've grilled, unless they were free. Every bite is, wow! They have more flavor and are far more tender than anything else I've bought. They are higher priced, but I don't care. On sale in the Dallas area, they are $7 a pound. And if you're new to grillin' steaks, buy your steaks at least an inch thick. If you marinade, you needn't do so longer than one hour. Get your grill 425, or upwards and sear, covered, each side one minute, then continue cooking. Turn with tongs, don't pierce the steak. A medium rare steak, at one inch thick, should take about 7-8 minutes. I can cook a steak with a red center with no blood on the plate. And the real secret? Let the steaks rest for five minutes before serving. Salt 'n pepper 'n eat. It doesn't get better for me. Happy grillin'
> Phil


 


Yes, angus beef IS much more superior and it tastes better too and is much more tender as well.

Some supermarkets call it BLACK angus beef too.


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## Uncle Bob

Are brown eggs better than white ones?


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## Katie H

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> Are brown eggs better than white ones?



Not really.  The only difference, genetically, is that brown eggs come from a different kind of chicken.


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## Uncle Bob

Katie E said:
			
		

> Not really. The only difference, genetically, is that brown eggs come from a different kind of chicken.


 
By differnet kind...You do mean breed I think.

Then, can I safely assume that meat that comes from a black steer taste no different than meat from a red one? Or a brown one? Or a white one?


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## GB

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> Are brown eggs better than white ones?


Brown eggs are local eggs and local eggs are fresh. (The Bostonians will get this reference).


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## Katie H

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> By differnet kind...You do mean breed I think.
> 
> Then, can I safely assume that meat that comes from a black steer taste no different than meat from a red one? Or a brown one? Or a white one?



Yes, you are correct.  Chickens that are white and who have white lobes, produce white eggs.  Brown chickens with brown lobes produce brown eggs.


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## Uncle Bob

Katie E said:
			
		

> Yes, you are correct. Chickens that are white and who have white lobes, produce white eggs. Brown chickens with brown lobes produce brown eggs.


 
Chicken lobes? My question was pertaining to beef cattle.


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## MJ

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> By differnet kind...You do mean breed I think.
> 
> Then, can I safely assume that meat that comes from a black steer taste no different than meat from a red one? Or a brown one? Or a white one?


Black Angus is a breed, not a color. The best IMO.


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## Uncle Bob

MJ said:
			
		

> Black Angus is a breed, not a color. The best IMO.


 

So then you are saying that the Angus Breed is superior. In you opinion then what makes the Angus a superior breed to say..a Herford, or Herford Angus Cross, or Charolais, or Short horn etc.etc. etc.


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## MJ

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> So then you are saying that the Angus Breed is superior. In you opinion then what makes the Angus a superior breed to say..a Herford, or Herford Angus Cross, or Charolais, or Short horn etc.etc. etc.


I'm not sure Bob. It just tastes better to me. I think there is a Red Angus breed too. Angus cattle are beef cattle and not used for milk (but there is a mixed angus breed out there for milk if I remember right). 

Angus Advantages


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## Mr. P

Phil said:
			
		

> I'd be eating with a dead wife She is a texture freak and likes her beef almost burned. She could be just as happy, if not more so, with a ground angus beef patty as with the rib-eye. She hates the texture of mushrooms and will actually become sick if confronted with liver. However......
> I have learned to appreciate the charcoal grill from a friend with trial and error. Gas grilling is easier and is more of a consistant heat source, but the Webber grill has produced some of the finest char-broiled beef I've ever eaten. The Webbers' design, and the fact you can produce a very hot bed of coals, (and wood), at 500 +, allows me to cook an inch thick steak, with a hot pick center and, the most important, no blood in the plate. I care not about the scientific principles involved in the process, just the fact that I can predict the outcome of a steak using this method. It's heaven on earth when this happens.


 Yeah well, I can top that, Philmy wife won't TOUCH chicken, nor eat it (honest) and she uses the smoke alarm as a timer!...so there!

*I am so glad I love to cook!*

Edit: I know just what you mean about the ground patty, and toatally agree.


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## Uncle Bob

MJ said:
			
		

> I'm not sure Bob. It just tastes better to me. I think there is a Red Angus breed too. Angus cattle are beef cattle and not used for milk (but there is a mixed angus breed out there for milk if I remember right).
> 
> Angus Advantages


 
MJ...
You are correct there is a Red Angus, along with the Black Angus. A white faced herford as well as a black herford. There are also Angus cattle crossed with Brahman cattle producing Brangus! Along with probably 50 other beef cattle breeds in the U.S. alone. My only point is, and IMHO that all things being equal in blind side by side taste test I seriously doubt anyones ability to distinguish one breed from another. I do believe in, and understand the power of advertising and marketing strategies on all of us. Together they are a powerful influence. 

Now go get yourself another beer!!


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## Corey123

I think we're getting a little bit off topic here, but organically-grown or free-range eggs are supposed to be better than regular eggs.

And I think that angus beef is raised better then beef from an ordinary cow.


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## Phil

*We're kin?*



			
				Mr. P said:
			
		

> Yeah well, I can top that, Philmy wife won't TOUCH chicken, nor eat it (honest) and she uses the smoke alarm as a timer!...so there!
> 
> *I am so glad I love to cook!*
> 
> Edit: I know just what you mean about the ground patty, and toatally agree.



So I married your wifes sister and we're brothers in law?
And to add more conroversey to the equation, I also think thickness of the steak makes a difference in the texture and flavor. 
Ever grill Spam


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## Lugaru

Personally I grew up eating tough cuts from free range cattle and there's a reason chefs are starting to favor this stuff. Most american beef is grain fed, under exercised and aged... usually tasting like butter. While some crave that I love the flavor of actual beef, actual meat.


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## buckytom

lugaru! welcome back!

(is it me, or does it seem like lugaru walked out in mid-sentence, disappear for a year or so, and come back in finishing the same sentence?  )

i often order steaks in restaurants, because the meat i buy to make at home just isn't as good. especially with certain cuts like prime rib and tenderloin. i have no idea what type of meat is sold to the restaurants that i frequent; i'll have to ask if i get the chance.

i agree with prodigal  lugaru, that i prefer more flavorful albeit tougher cuts of meat to make at home.


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## Uncle Bob

Mr Tom....

Just some FYI. Make sure the beef you are buying in supermarkets is "Choice" grade beef. Many chain stores have moved down a notch to "Select" grade. A fancy sounding name that aludes to "Selected" just for you in advertising campaigns etc...What you order in the better restaurants is at least Choice or even Prime grade beef. With only 2 to 3 percent of cattle graded as Prime, most of it is going to the restaurant world especaillly the 'white table cloth" ones. Some goes to up scale butcher shops where it takes a Kings Ransom to buy it. Again seek out "Choice" grade cuts and you will surprise yourself at what you can do with them. 

Enjoy.........


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## kleenex

if you want to buy some expensive Kobe Beef, go here:

The Great Steakhouse Steaks - Allen Brothers USDA Prime Steak and Prime Beef


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## Lugaru

buckytom said:
			
		

> lugaru! welcome back!
> 
> (is it me, or does it seem like lugaru walked out in mid-sentence, disappear for a year or so, and come back in finishing the same sentence?  )
> .



Thanks man. You know me, Im like a house cat. I disapear for a month, then show up again with a few scratches and a collar with a different name but otherwise the same.


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## RPCookin

Phil said:
			
		

> because, on sale at $7.99 a lb., it's hard to beat. Last week we had a shoulder roast cooked as a pot roast and I told my wife that if we could have it this good everytime, I'd take this in place of turkey and dressing on Thanksgiving. That was the best roast I ever ate. I give my wife all the credit on that one. After my original post of "superior" beef, what I really meant to say is that the angus beef, in my neck of the woods, is superior to "supermarket" beef. From ground beef to rib-eyes, I really enjoy it. The real joy is I get to grill year round here in Texas.



I guess if you buy your beef at a supermarket you're stuck with Angus or pot luck.  But when I buy it on the hoof, I can guarantee that my Hereford beef is better than your $7.99 supermarket Angus.  And I pay around $2 a pound for all of it, from lean ground beef to the most succulent tenderloin you've ever tasted.  We had a sirloin tip steak for dinner tonight (medium rare of course!) that was as tender and delicious as anything I've ever paid $50 for in a fine steak house.  

I should think that in Texas you could find a source for real beef, instead of the commercially grown and processed  supermarket product.


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## Phil

*You'd think?*



			
				RPCookin said:
			
		

> I guess if you buy your beef at a supermarket you're stuck with Angus or pot luck. But when I buy it on the hoof, I can guarantee that my Hereford beef is better than your $7.99 supermarket Angus. And I pay around $2 a pound for all of it, from lean ground beef to the most succulent tenderloin you've ever tasted. We had a sirloin tip steak for dinner tonight (medium rare of course!) that was as tender and delicious as anything I've ever paid $50 for in a fine steak house.
> 
> I should think that in Texas you could find a source for real beef, instead of the commercially grown and processed supermarket product.


 
I have thought about that before. I have a friend that raised Brahamas, but we only feed two at our house. I would have to buy a freezer and, of course, consider the utility cost. No way can you guesstimate the cost of that. Electricity goes up daily How many pounds of beef would that be, roughly?And, what if the beef is just average, or worse, well below average. You, then, are stuck with it, no?


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## Mr. P

I have also thought about buying a quarter of beef, but yeah, without a freezer or many to feed it just didn’t seem like the best way to go. The best solution I found was to buy a whole cryovac packed ribeye at the grocery, some $30-40. They will cut it to your thickness without charge. It was some of the best meat I ever had from a grocery. Honestly I think it was just luck.

Personally, I think the quest for ‘great’ meat is hit or miss even if you have a good eye for quality. Prime on the other hand might be a solution, but is not readily available to most and tends to be very expensive.

I’ve had grocery meat at <1/2 the price that was far better than from long time ‘quality’ butcher shops. 

I guess the problem is packers that provide the grocery supply get their cattle from all over, so most of the time you really don’t know what you’re going to get. But, my research showed that these same packers supply most of the local butcher shops too. So, it seems in many cases your just paying more for the same, unless they age the beef when they recieve it.

I could be wrong, just my experience.


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## Uncle Bob

Mr P...

Just curious....Where do you buy your beef. What's the name of the grocery etc.

Thanks...

Uncle Bob


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## Phil

Mr. P said:
			
		

> I have also thought about buying a quarter of beef, but yeah, without a freezer or many to feed it just didn’t seem like the best way to go. The best solution I found was to buy a whole cryovac packed ribeye at the grocery, some $30-40. They will cut it to your thickness without charge. It was some of the best meat I ever had from a grocery. Honestly I think it was just luck.
> 
> Personally, I think the quest for ‘great’ meat is hit or miss even if you have a good eye for quality. Prime on the other hand might be a solution, but is not readily available to most and tends to be very expensive.......
> 
> I agree with a lot of what you say. I have found a cryovac from time to time. We have an upscale market here in Dallas that sells any and everything. Their choice rib-eye is about $16-18 a lb. but their prime is about $40. I can't force myself to pay that. I just can't. We have several upscale steak houses that'll cost you $50-120 a meal. I'm a simple guy. A dollar is still a dollar to me. I doubt I'd pay that for my last meal. Hmmm, last meal. Chocolate cake and a keg of draft.


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## Uncle Bob

Mr Phil

Those people that are charging $16.00 to $18.00 per pound for choice rib-eyes and $40.00 per lb for USDA prime...They are wearing a mask aren't they??? And also are armed with Colt 45's?? Laughing in their face would be the most polite thing I would do!


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## Andy M.

Phil said:
			
		

> ...We have an upscale market here in Dallas that sells any and everything. Their choice rib-eye is about $16-18 a lb. but their prime is about $40...


 

What do you end up buying?   Select grade?  Those prices are outrageous.  I buy choice grade meats from Costco regularly and have been quite pleased with it.  A cryovac ribeye section is less than $10/Lb.


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## Uncle Bob

Andy M. said:
			
		

> What do you end up buying? Select grade? Those prices are outrageous. I buy choice grade meats from Costco regularly and have been quite pleased with it. A cryovac ribeye section is less than $10/Lb.


 
Andy...

Thats more in the ball park...Here whole bonless rib-eyes can run 6.99 to 7.99 per lb. for USDA Choice beef as an advertised special. Indiviual packages (2 to 4 steaks) can run $1.00 to $2.00 more per lb. Non ad prices run higher of course. But not $18.00 Lb. That is "Highway Robbery"!
Where are the Texas Rangers???


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## Mr. P

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> Mr P...
> 
> Just curious....Where do you buy your beef. What's the name of the grocery etc.
> 
> Thanks...
> 
> Uncle Bob


I have no loyalty to any vender/grocery or shop. I buy what looks the best (only choice) at the time, if nothing looks good, marbling thickness etc, I don’t buy. But sometimes even what looks good, marbling etc isn’t good, regardless of where I buy.

I haven't tried Cosco meats yet, nor Sams club, I'm not a member of either. I hear some say they have great meat. Donno.


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## Mr. P

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> Mr Tom....
> 
> Just some FYI. Make sure the beef you are buying in supermarkets is "Choice" grade beef. Many chain stores have moved down a notch to "Select" grade. A fancy sounding name that aludes to "Selected" just for you in advertising campaigns etc...What you order in the better restaurants is at least Choice or even Prime grade beef. With only 2 to 3 percent of cattle graded as Prime, most of it is going to the restaurant world especaillly the 'white table cloth" ones. Some goes to up scale butcher shops where it takes a Kings Ransom to buy it. Again seek out "Choice" grade cuts and you will surprise yourself at what you can do with them.
> 
> Enjoy.........


Yup. Select is for dogs. I understand even choice has levels now days. Have you heard of that?


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## Flightschool

I was in the netherlands the last few weeks, and all I can say is the beef here is much better.


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## Uncle Bob

Mr. P said:
			
		

> Yup. Select is for dogs. I understand even choice has levels now days. Have you heard of that?


 
USDA meat grades are based on national uniform standards of quality. These 'grades' are applied by trained, experienced USDA graders. These guys/gals are routinely checked by subervisors to make sure they are interpreting and applying the standards properly. A USDA whole Choice rib-eye must have met the same grading criteria/standards regardless of when or where you purchased it. There are 8 different, distinct grade levels. There are no "levels" of the USDA Choice grade for beef..


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## Andy M.

Uncle Bob:

What are the 8 levels?  I know Prime, Choice, Select and No Roll.


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## Uncle Bob

Andy...

Prime
Choice
Select
Standard
Commercial
Utility
Cutter
Canner.

"No Roll" is not a grade, but rather means beef that has not been graded.


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## Andy M.

Thanks, UB.


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## Mr. P

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> USDA meat grades are based on national uniform standards of quality. These 'grades' are applied by trained, experienced USDA graders. These guys/gals are routinely checked by subervisors to make sure they are interpreting and applying the standards properly. A USDA whole Choice rib-eye must have met the same grading criteria/standards regardless of when or where you purchased it. There are 8 different, distinct grade levels. *There are no "levels" of the USDA Choice grade for beef..*


Technically true, however, there are ‘quality’ levels within each retail grade based on fat content. So, in my humble opinion there are ‘levels’ within a grade. 

Percentage Intramuscular Fat
USDA Quality Grade
Degree of Marbling
11% and Above *Prime+* Abundant 00-100
9.5% - 11% *Prime°* Moderately Abundant 00-100
8% - 9.5% *Prime- *Slightly Abundant 00-100

7% - 8% *Choice+ * Moderate 00-100
5% - 6% *Choice°* Modest 00-100
4% - 5%* Choice- *Small 00-100

3.5% - 4% Select+ Slight 50-100
3% - 3.5% Select- Slight 00-50
2.5% - 3% Standard+ Traces
2.5% and Below Standard- Practically Devoid


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## Uncle Bob

Mr. P said:
			
		

> Technically true, however, there are ‘quality’ levels within each retail grade based on fat content. So, in my humble opinion there are ‘levels’ within a grade.
> 
> Percentage Intramuscular Fat
> USDA Quality Grade
> Degree of Marbling
> 11% and Above *Prime+* Abundant 00-100
> 9.5% - 11% *Prime°* Moderately Abundant 00-100
> 8% - 9.5% *Prime- *Slightly Abundant 00-100
> 
> 7% - 8% *Choice+ *Moderate 00-100
> 5% - 6% *Choice°* Modest 00-100
> 4% - 5%* Choice- *Small 00-100
> 
> 3.5% - 4% Select+ Slight 50-100
> 3% - 3.5% Select- Slight 00-50
> 2.5% - 3% Standard+ Traces
> 2.5% and Below Standard- Practically Devoid


 
Very Technically true...However IMHO is of little or no use to the avg. consumer in this forum who is buyng meat for their table. These subtle differences are only visible to the most well trained, experienced eyes and equipment. Excellently prepared "choice" beef is excellent. Poorly prepared "Prime" is fair at best. For my money, I would prefer to discuss preparation methods and ideas rather than to discuss the intricate technicalities of the USDA beef grading System.

Do enjoy.....


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## fireweaver

well, speaking of preparation methods & where we're shopping...

there's a korean-run grocery store just past my office building that has easily the best raw ingredients around.  produce selection & quality are far superior to the regular ol' store, and at way cheaper prices.  the meats & fish are no different.  my mom was visiting here for a long weekend (fun times!), so i popped in there with her to get fixin's for a nice meal at home.  scooped up a very lovely whole tenderloin for the crazy-cheap price of $5 per pound, and cut it into steaks thanks to the _extremely _helpful knowledge from the crew at DC.  my marinade is to crush a half-handful of dried chives into the bowl, add a pinch of garlic powder or minced garlic, and a pour of the red wine you'll be drinking with the beef.  sprinkle steaks liberally with sea salt & fresh-ground pepper on both sides, toss in wine mix to sit for 20 minutes or so.  yum!

re: ketchup.  dear god.  a bozo i was (briefly!!) dating this past summer tried to correct my grill technique by offering to coat my steaks in KC BBQ sauce instead, and yes, he liked 'em burnt to boot leather too.  ketchup is possibly the only "marinade" i can imagine worse...


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> Very Technically true...However IMHO is of little or no use to the avg. consumer in this forum who is buyng meat for their table. These subtle differences are only visible to the most well trained, experienced eyes and equipment. Excellently prepared "choice" beef is excellent. Poorly prepared "Prime" is fair at best. For my money, I would prefer to discuss preparation methods and ideas rather than to discuss the intricate technicalities of the USDA beef grading System.
> 
> Do enjoy.....


 
You have spoken well.  Technique is far more important.  With proper technique, and some knowledge of the carcass, one can use the proper cut for the proper meal.  You certainly wouldn't use even USDA Prime Chuck Steak to impress your FIL.  In the same vein, if you use any bone-in rib steak for stew, then you are throwing away your money.

It is important to know what the best cooking methods are for the kind of meat you are using.  There are easy to read and understand charts available online that explain the naming conventions, where the meat comes from on the carcass, and typical methods for preparing different cuts.

In summary, the more you know about the meat, the better you are able to choose the right cut and technique to create a great meal.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## RPCookin

Phil said:
			
		

> I have thought about that before. I have a friend that raised Brahamas, but we only feed two at our house. I would have to buy a freezer and, of course, consider the utility cost. No way can you guesstimate the cost of that. Electricity goes up daily How many pounds of beef would that be, roughly?And, what if the beef is just average, or worse, well below average. You, then, are stuck with it, no?



It's not that costly to run a small freezer.  My wife and I (no kids) generally split a side of beef with my sister and her husband (daughter married and gone).  That lasts for a year or more, and I can assure you that we pay less even with the freezing costs than you do at the supermarket.  And we have that freezer available for other needs too then.  Now and then when something is on a really good sale, we will stock up and generally save a lot of money on the grocery bill in the long run.  Things like frozen veggies, meats like packaged spare ribs and corned beef (always a good buy around St. Patrick's Day), frozen shrimp and seafood can all be had on sale for 1/2 to 1/4 the normal price.  We hardly ever buy anything at full price any more unless it is absolutely needed.


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## pacanis

My small upright freezer is over 20 years old and only adds $10/month to my electric bill.  I imagine they are a lot more efficient today.  I too stock up on things and wouldn't be without one.
I live by myself and bought a side of beef several months ago.  It was a small 1-1/2 year old steer, 700 lbs I think.  I believe I got a couple hundred lbs of beef.  Anyway, I'll have no problem using it up, even some of the "odd" cuts I've been playing with.  Excellent taste, tender, hormone free, I know the guy that raised it.  Can't go wrong.
That said, the cuts aren't anywhere near as "pretty" as store bought, but I'd do it again.  I imagine the individual butcher and size of the steer has a lot to do with that.


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## Jikoni

GB said:
			
		

> Kobe beef anyone?


 I had Kobe beef in Japan and can definately vouch for it. It was fresh and tasted heavenly. Angus beef is great too, but sometimes I think to myself, why compare? Both are great and different.I rate my beef by chewing it and swallowing it.  I am not a very technical person.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North

Jikoni said:
			
		

> I had Kobe beef in Japan and can definately vouch for it. It was fresh and tasted heavenly. Angus beef is great too, but sometimes I think to myself, why compare? Both are great and different.I rate my beef by chewing it and swallowing it. I am not a very technical person.



 I like the way you think.

As I stated previously, there are so many varieties availale to us these days.  And some are great for one thing, while others are great for something else.  I ceratinly wouldn't put Kobe or Wagyu beef in a stew.  Nor would I use bottom round, no matter what breed it came from, for a grilled steak.

And if the meat doesn't have the quality we thought we were getting, it can always be ground up for meat loaf, or to add to spaghetti sauce.  And I don't know about you, but for me, when ground meat is made into sloppy joes, the beef flavor is almost completely lost to the tomato, spices, and other flavors.  Only the texture of the ground beef is important.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Jikoni

^I totally agree GWN,  when gound beef is all spiced up it always means she/he had some issues and has to be dealt with differently.(excuse the personification)


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## CasperImproved

Hello GWN and Jikoni - What I wanted to add here is from another forum on another site I view from time to time (chowhound's) that I agree with. The *best* beef, is the beef that is local and not stressed/overly processed. If a number of different breeds were given the same factors of growth (exercise, diet, etc.), many people would not likely be able to tell the difference between them. Quality in environment and care is likely to be the biggest value in a good tasting piece of beef.   I did not personally grow up on a farm, but have enough family members that did that I was thankfully able to take advantage of their output during summer vacations   Good beef requires a good plan on their growth, and it is likely that that their ancestry is not quite as important. Like humans, I think they are a product of their upbringing (I know, a bag analogy).  In any case, I actually have a personal need for better pork. There is no better ham, then a ham that has a had a free range life style. I know, because the 2 or 3 hams I was able to acquire prior to my last home move were orgasmic for a pork lover. I know that sounds a little "out there". But if you haven't had the same experience... you just can't equate.  Sorry I left the topic     But I think the the point I was making is that overly processed meat is a bad thing (beef or otherwise), and if you can locate a local producer, it may well enhance your experience greatly.   A good source of information may be a local smalle butcher shop, and if you don't have that, then ask some of your neighbors that have been around for a long time.   And no, I did not capture the other forum info to repost.  I agreed with the information I read and put it in my own words, and added my own thoughts (for the mod) ;-)  I *love* a very good ribeye on the grill, but come easter, a local farm produced ham without hormones, etc. and a normal amount of fat (more then the raised for sale pigs for a large market by a large pig farmer) it is heaven... trust me.  For a beef answer, I say the source issue and response is the same. I will however add that a good piece of beef from a taste prospective will have great marbling (the fat is where the flavor comes from). But I like all cuts for their specific uses.... the best cut of beef for a Mexican meal of burritos is normally a hard to cut/chew piece of beef unless cooked in a specific manner that is recommended. However, any cut has it's beauty, and it's ugly. Just needs to be convinced it's beautiful  In other words, the right cooking method and usage after that.  Casper


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