# Sauerkraut



## skilletlicker (Aug 10, 2021)

Starting my first batch of sauerkraut tonight. Should know if it's any good in two or three weeks. 

660 grams savoy cabbage
13.2 grams salt
1 tsp caraway seed
1 tsp dill seed
1 tsp mustard seed


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## skilletlicker (Aug 11, 2021)




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## larry_stewart (Aug 11, 2021)

Good Luck!
I make a it a few times a year and have almost always had success.


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## msmofet (Aug 11, 2021)

Is that a quart jar? I've been wanting to make kraut. I have the weights and the lids.


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## skilletlicker (Aug 11, 2021)

msmofet said:


> *Is that a quart jar? *I've been wanting to make kraut. I have the weights and the lids.



Yes. Bought six for the kefir project. Bought four fermentation tops for this one although they aren't strictly necessary.


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## msmofet (Aug 11, 2021)

skilletlicker said:


> Yes. Bought six for the kefir project. Bought four fermentation tops for this one although they aren't strictly necessary.



Mine look like baby bottle nipples that replace the solid lid and go under the rings.  They are silicone with a small hole. This lets the gas escape. I can post a picture when I am on my laptop.


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## skilletlicker (Aug 11, 2021)

msmofet said:


> Mine look like baby bottle nipples that replace the solid lid and go under the rings.  They are silicone with a small hole. This lets the gas escape. I can post a picture when I am on my laptop.



The good thing about the kind you have is they take up less room. My kind might be a little cheaper and their Rube Goldberg appearance appeals to me.


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## msmofet (Aug 11, 2021)

skilletlicker said:


> The good thing about the kind you have is they take up less room. My kind might be a little cheaper and their Rube Goldberg appearance appeals to me.


 These are the ones I bought. I can't find this set on Amazon anymore, but they have other brands available. 



Waterless airlock fermentation lids.


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## taxlady (Aug 11, 2021)

I need to get some of those fermentation locks or lids. There are a couple of local places that sell them online.


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## skilletlicker (Aug 11, 2021)

Another thing I like about the big dumb looking contraptions I've got is that you can see the bubbles as they float to the top of the thingamajig above the jar. Gives an idea of the rate of fermentation occurring below.


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## blissful (Aug 11, 2021)

Cool! I love the taste of fermented sauerkraut and fermented pickles. YUM. So good.


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## larry_stewart (Aug 11, 2021)

I got a Pickling/ Fermentation Crock when I was attempting to make fermented beans.  Basically there is rim on the top of the crock that you fill with water , then place an upside-down bowl-like lid on top which creates a liquid seal.  As the pressure builds up inside during the fermentation process, it allows the gasses to bubble out while preventing any air from getting in.

My fermented bean experiment was a failure, but I still have the crock which I plan on using to make kimchi and sauerkraut.  Here are a few examples.  I have the more decorative Asian one, but Initially I was planning on getting the German one, as my initial intention was sauerkraut.  The German one comes with a weight to keep the solids completely submerged.


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## blissful (Aug 11, 2021)

Larry, beautiful! If you want to see a series of fermenting using those kinds of crocks Liziqi on you tube uses them a lot. It's very peaceful and pleasant to watch. I think I've seen all of her videos. She ferments a lot of stuff. https://www.youtube.com/c/cnliziqi/videos


I use a food grade 5 gallon bucket or just quart jars. I keep kimchi stocked up in the fridge as I like it and my son likes it too. We use it for soup or seasoning rice. If you love hot and spicy with a little sweet, then it is a nice side dish too.  Kimchi I use qt jars, sauerkraut or pickles, the 5 gallon bucket.


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## larry_stewart (Aug 11, 2021)

blissful said:


> Larry, beautiful! If you want to see a series of fermenting using those kinds of crocks Liziqi on you tube uses them a lot. It's very peaceful and pleasant to watch. I think I've seen all of her videos. She ferments a lot of stuff. https://www.youtube.com/c/cnliziqi/videos
> .



Ill definitely check it out.

I also got these Korean crocks to make soy sauce with, which I think I started a thread a few years back, that was a an ultimate failure.  But I really love the ceramic crocks though.

I used to use 5 gallon food grade buckets as a primary fermentation bucket when making wine, but have since converted one of them to a mushroom growing bucket. ( Which I know has totally deviated from the topic of this thread).

But to add to the sauerkraut discussion,  the two main tips I can provide is:
1) Make sure the cabbage is completely submerged under the liquid even if it means adding more brine.
2) things ferment quicker the warmer it is, so if you have a warm house, things will progress more rapidly.  Keep the jar out of direct sun.  I personally find the sauerkraut to be more predictable in the fall and spring months due to the general temp of my house.


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## blissful (Aug 11, 2021)

Larry, I remember something about making soy sauce in your threads and then I did a lot of research and it seemed like a long commitment to make it but I loved learning about it. I *should* do it but since we've cut back on salt we only use a small amount of soy sauce recognizing it is high in sodium.



And with sauerkraut, and pickles, I made them in the basement where it is 55 deg F and upstairs where it is 80, and I got more mold and failure in the basement, so it's better to ferment for me, upstairs in the fall when the temperatures are in the 70's or lower. All of these salty things we use in very small amounts, well, I do. To keep my blood pressure at healthy levels.


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## skilletlicker (Aug 11, 2021)

larry_stewart said:


> Ill definitely check it out.
> 
> I also got these Korean crocks to make soy sauce with, which I think I started a thread a few years back, that was a an ultimate failure.  But I really love the ceramic crocks though.
> 
> ...





			
				larry_stewart said:
			
		

> But to add to the sauerkraut discussion,  the two main tips I can provide is ...:


This is what I was hoping for. 


> Make sure the cabbage is completely submerged under the liquid even if it means adding more brine.


The reserved large outer leaves kept wanted to sneak out around the weight into the open air. So after several attempts to push them down, I made a bottle of 2% brine and added enough to prevent further escape attempts. Started with salt equal to 2% of the net cabbage weight, then added about 4 ounces of brine. Seems like a lot of salt for an old guy trying to keep hypertension in the normal range.

Hope to follow up with wine and mushroom conversations; perhaps in separate threads.


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## blissful (Aug 11, 2021)

Skilletlicker, fill a gallon zip lock bag with brine of salt and water. Use that to hold down the weight. I use a plate on top turned upside down, then the zip lock bag, then a towel to cover it.


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## larry_stewart (Aug 11, 2021)

blissful said:


> Skilletlicker, fill a gallon zip lock bag with brine of salt and water. Use that to hold down the weight. I use a plate on top turned upside down, then the zip lock bag, then a towel to cover it.



Depending on which vessel Im using, I use the brine in bag method also.  

the recipe I followed says that after letting the crushed cabbage sit in the salt, there should be enough liquid to completely submerge thee shredded cabbage.
I have never found that to be the case, and always had to make extra brine to add and keep everything under the liquid.


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## larry_stewart (Aug 11, 2021)

skilletlicker said:


> Hope to follow up with wine and mushroom conversations; perhaps in separate threads.



Wine is usually a fall activity for me.  I make homemade apple cider with and old fashioned press.  It works well, but is not efficient so there is a lot of apple ' waste'.  Instead of composting or throwing out, I decided to make apple wine with it.  To be perfectly honest, it doesn't come out very good, but I use it to cook.

Mushrooms are a fall winter thing.  Gives me something to do indoors when I cant garden outdoors.

When I start them both, I'll post a thread documenting my success and failures.


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## skilletlicker (Aug 12, 2021)

Sauerkrsaut day two the volume of kraut and brine expanded above the bottom of the lid. Couldn't see any bubbles. Removed one ounce of brine and had a wee taste. Whilst moving stuff some trapped bubbles were released. Beginning to smell and taste like sauerkraut.

It's alive!


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## blissful (Aug 13, 2021)

skilletlicker said:


> It's alive!




 *That's just GREAT! *


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## blissful (Aug 13, 2021)

larry_stewart said:


> Depending on which vessel Im using, I use the brine in bag method also.
> 
> the recipe I followed says that after letting the crushed cabbage sit in the salt, there should be enough liquid to completely submerge thee shredded cabbage.
> I have never found that to be the case, and always had to make extra brine to add and keep everything under the liquid.




Some of that depends on the cabbage. If the cabbage has a lot of water in it, lets say a 'water laden cabbage', then when you massage it or crush it, it lets out a lot. Then I don't add extra brine. Sometimes I'm out of time and can't crush the cabbage enough or the cabbage is pretty dry, then I add the extra brine. For me it's about 50/50 which way it goes.


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## Cooking Goddess (Aug 15, 2021)

*skillet*, I've been following along. Although I make pickled cukes every summer (about to start this year's batch one today or tomorrow) but haven't tried sauerkraut. This looks interesting and doable.


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## skilletlicker (Aug 15, 2021)

Thanks, Cooking Goddess.
I've been gravitating toward the fermenting, pickling, and canning world. They say kraut is pretty easy. I'm only 5 days in but so far so good. Next might be fermented garlic. I'm also tempted to take another run at wine and shine.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Aug 15, 2021)

true story:  One day many years back (about 20), my youngest daughter found a bottle of apple juice back in the fridge.  It looked completely normal.  She poured herself a glassful, and took a swig.  She came to me and said, Dad, this apple juice tastes funny.  I tasted it.  Wil yeast from the air must have gotten into the juice.  I had apple wine.  In our religion. we don't drink alcoholic beverages.  But I have to admit, that sip was pretty tasty.  The rest went down the sink drain.

If placed in the freezer, some of the water will form ice shards, which can be removed, resulting in the stronger apple jack.  This cold distilling process is only done by a very few specialty companies any more.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## skilletlicker (Aug 15, 2021)

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> true story:  One day many years back (about 20), my youngest daughter found a bottle of apple juice back in the fridge.  It looked completely normal.  She poured herself a glassful, and took a swig.  She came to me and said, Dad, this apple juice tastes funny.  I tasted it.  Wil yeast from the air must have gotten into the juice.  I had apple wine.  In our religion. we don't drink alcoholic beverages.  But I have to admit, that sip was pretty tasty.  The rest went down the sink drain.
> 
> If placed in the freezer, some of the water will form ice shards, which can be removed, resulting in the stronger apple jack.  This cold distilling process is only done by a very few specialty companies any more.
> 
> Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North



Yup. Never made "good" wine; a little better than "prison" wine; maybe on par with good "dorm room" wine. Jack, made by freezing 10 to 12% apple wine becomes a potent elixir. Thought of that when Larry was talking about his less than stellar apple wine.


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## larry_stewart (Aug 15, 2021)

skilletlicker said:


> Thought of that when Larry was talking about his *less than stellar* apple wine.



"Less than stellar". is being kind


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Aug 16, 2021)

I and a buddy, when we were about 17 years, obtained a full bottle of pre-mixed screw-divers that we took with us out ice fishing.  It was a balmy 10' F., if I remember correctly.  We left the bottle outside to get frost cold.  We left it out a little too long.  Again, the water froze ti ice, leaving us with some very potent screw-drivers to drink.  We only drank a little, as we knew we would have to leave the toasty ice shack, and head home when it got dark.

The fishing was good too, with several rock bass, and jumbo perch caught and taken home.  I think we got one Northern Pike as well.

Back on topic - I have made sour kraut with cabbage and brine,  Placing in half gallon mason jars, covered with fine weave, food grade muslin. secured in place with rubber bands.  The cabbage was weighted down with a sterilized ramekin filled with brine, to keep everything submerged.  After about 10 days, I was pleasantly surprised at how good ot was.  

Skillet, you got this.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## CharlieD (Aug 16, 2021)

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> I and a buddy, when we were about 17 years,...
> 
> Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North



I was not much older. In the soviet army at the time, we were about to celebrate a New Year, bought couple of bottles of Vodka. Successfully brought them in on the Base. Were almost to our barrack when we got a warning that an officer have not left and was checking everybody coming in. Quick thinking and both bottles ended up hidden in the snow bank. That was probably around 6 or 7 in the evening. Officer did not leave until 2 in the morning. When we get to our vodka it was not frozen, but it was a sick as a good liquor, or more, you could nearly eat it with a spoon. What can I say, we had a very good New Year celebration.


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## skilletlicker (Aug 21, 2021)

Started eating my sauerkraut after eight days fermenting at room temperature, ~80°F. It was okay, I guess. Too salty and too crunchy for my taste.

I hoped for a "softer" texture after aggressively pounding cabbage sliced as thin as I could manage. This kraut would probably be judged as having a pleasant crunch to most folks but I am dentally challenged.

More importantly, my blood pressure went up 10 or 15 points. I ate quite a lot over a couple days but I'm trying to make food that benefits health, not stuff that has to be eaten in moderation. Too much moderation required already.

I'm not ready to give up though. As I understand it, all that salt is required is to give the bacteria present on the vegetable a chance to get well established before their harmful kinfolk can spoil the neighborhood. But I already have quarts of acidic whey in the fridge as a by-product of making kefir cheese. So apparently I can turn the SCOBY in that whey loose on cabbage and stuff to ferment with less or no added salt. There are a lot of web articles and YouTubes on the topic. Here's one from Spruce Eats.

So since I'm already considering straying so far from the traditional kraut method, I'm wondering if I can't break the other cardinal pickling rule and soften up my raw vegetable by cooking it a little first. That is verboten by sauerkraut police because it kills lactobacillus on the cabbage leaves but if I'm supplying it and other bacteria and yeast with homemade whey, does it hurt the fermentation process to solve my texture problem by parboiling the cabbage?


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## taxlady (Aug 21, 2021)

I think it sounds very plausible to make sauerkraut with whey and parboiled, thinly sliced cabbage. I would try with a small batch. BTW, skilletlicker, how are you slicing the cabbage? Are you using a mandolin or a food processor?


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Aug 21, 2021)

to make your existing sour kraut more to you needs, yo might try rinsing it in cold water to remove some of the sodium, the steaming it to soften, like you would been sprots.  Just a thought.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## taxlady (Aug 21, 2021)

Chief Longwind Of The North said:


> to make your existing sour kraut more to you needs, yo might try rinsing it in cold water to remove some of the sodium, the steaming it to soften, like you would been sprots.  Just a thought.
> 
> Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North



Yeah, that would help with the current batch. But, that counters some of the benefits. It rinses off the good micro-organisms and then kills the ones that weren't rinsed off.


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## skilletlicker (Aug 21, 2021)

Thanks for the encouragement. I've eaten most of that first batch already and none of what little is left will go to waste. I started slicing cabbage with a mandoline but found a knife worked better. It is pretty finely sliced. Except for overly salted, I like the flavor. The caraway and dill seed contribute nicely. When yellow mustard seeds get low I'll buy brown instead. Rinsing would lose all that and most of the "sauer."

In the interest of changing one variable at a time, I'll try replacing most of the salt with whey first; then precooking, boil or roast on a subsequent batch. Mary's Nest, one of YouTubers I've listened to, said that using kefir whey to jump start vegetable ferments definitely works but imparts a flavor she doesn't care for in sauerkraut. Just cutting way back on the salt will change the flavor a lot so we'll see about all that too.


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## blissful (Aug 21, 2021)

Mr bliss and I talked about how many cabbages we'll need to buy for 3 gallons of sauerkraut to eat raw, keep in the fridge for winter, and give away. I made kimchi yesterday and 1 medium cabbage made about 1/2 gallon. We don't grow it and we came up with about 5-8 medium cabbages. It's running 29 cents/lb so now is when we'll do it, or soon this week. My mouth waters at the thought of the new fresh stuff.


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## larry_stewart (Aug 21, 2021)

This thread inspired me to make another batch of Sauerkraut.  So far so good .


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## blissful (Aug 27, 2021)

We started 24 lbs of cabbage for sauerkraut on the 22nd of august, the day temperatures are 90 deg F, and it fermented fast.
Today it is day 5, it is crunchy and sour, really delicious. I've never had sauerkraut ferment so fast. Now I need to divvy up the 3-4 gallons into containers for the fridge and for the neighbors. I'm thrilled! I'm still shocked how fast it fermented. Beautiful stuff!


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## taxlady (Oct 1, 2021)

SL, have you done any experimenting with fermenting using whey yet?


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## skilletlicker (Oct 1, 2021)

Thanks for asking taxlady. Not yet but I have a green cabbage in the icebox for that purpose. I think I'll try to do exactly what I did the first time with the only variables being green cabbage instead of savoy and unsalted whey instead of 2% brine. Not going to precook the cabbage to soften because many people say the whey accelerates the ferment so much that the risk is vegetables can become too soft.

Probably start it today or tomorrow and report results later.


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## blissful (Oct 10, 2022)

Another batch of sauerkraut, this one for 2022. 24 lbs of cabbage half from the garden and half from the store. 39 cents/lb this year. 1 cup of salt a little water, all the cabbage, almost a cup of active apple cider vinegar. It turned out so good last year.....and I'm hoping for the same this year. We make ours in 5 gallon food grade buckets, topped with an upside down plate, then a zip lock bag full of salt water, covered in a towel. It took mr bliss and myself 25 minutes to put all that cabbage through the shredder on the food processor. Well worth our time.


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