# Scaling A Recipe (merged)



## mish (Mar 15, 2006)

Can a recipe turn out correctly if you divide and conquer - or multiply - for the correct amount of servings? My instincts tell me no. Is there an accurate formula or ratio for scaling a recipe? Anyone have a successful method? What have your experiences been when altering amounts? TIA


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## Andy M. (Mar 15, 2006)

Baking aside, you can half or double recipes with no problem.  Keep in mind that a normal recipe often has the ingredient amounts increased, decreased or eliminated with good results.

Baking is a different issue.  As baking recipes are presenting specific chemical reactions to be successful, the relationships of ingredient amounts are much more important.


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## mish (Mar 15, 2006)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> Baking aside, you can half or double recipes with no problem. Keep in mind that a normal recipe often has the ingredient amounts increased, decreased or eliminated with good results.
> 
> Baking is a different issue. As baking recipes are presenting specific chemical reactions to be successful, the relationships of ingredient amounts are much more important.


 
Thanks Andy. Maybe I should have been more specific, i.e. if a recipe serves four, and you would like to serve 12 or 25, initially my thoughts are, it won't work by multiplying/dividing. Or, the other way around - if a recipe serves 25 or 50, can you scale it down? Is there a ratio or formula that will work? TIA


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## Alix (Mar 15, 2006)

My experience is that I have no difficulty doubling, trebling recipes (and that includes baking). I have never gone the other direction though. Sorry mish.


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## Andy M. (Mar 15, 2006)

mish said:
			
		

> Thanks Andy. Maybe I should have been more specific, i.e. if a recipe serves four, and you would like to serve 12 or 25, initially my thoughts are, it won't work by multiplying/dividing. Or, the other way around - if a recipe serves 25 or 50, can you scale it down? Is there a ratio or formula that will work? TIA


 
I understood you and my answer stands.

Consider this:

You have a recipe which serves 4 and you need to serve 12.  That's a triple recipe.  You can triple all the ingredients and make one big batch or cook three smaller batches using the same amount of the ingredients and mix the three batches together when you're done.   There's no difference as long as you have the larger containers to accommodate the larger ingredient amounts.

The same goes for reducing the amounts to cut a recipe for 25 servings down to a smaller size.

Again, I'm not including baking in my response.


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## Alix (Mar 15, 2006)

Andy...why is baking different? I have never had an issue with trebling a cookie recipe for example.


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## licia (Mar 15, 2006)

A local grocery store gave out a recipe several years ago for one of my favorite cookies = fruit bars. The only problem - it is in a vast quantity and is measured in ounces. I've wanted to have it cut to normal proportions, but haven't found a way to do that yet. I don't trust my measurements in such as baking soda, salt, baking powder, etc. I suppose the only way I will ever make it is if I need a huge amount of the cookies.


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## Debbie (Mar 15, 2006)

licia said:
			
		

> A local grocery store gave out a recipe several years ago for one of my favorite cookies = fruit bars. The only problem - it is in a vast quantity and is measured in ounces. I've wanted to have it cut to normal proportions, but haven't found a way to do that yet. I don't trust my measurements in such as baking soda, salt, baking powder, etc. I suppose the only way I will ever make it is if I need a huge amount of the cookies.


 
Maybe post the recipe, and we will take a stab at it


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## mish (Mar 15, 2006)

I would never monkey around with quanty re a baking/cake recipe.  One of the reasons I asked was because I've seen several restaurant recipes (for large quantities) that I would like to translate for a home cook. The other being, recipes for a home cook serving six, and wondering if they can be duplicated/adjusted to serve i.e. 100. The size of the baking pan, is a given, and sure I would have to adjust cooking time, but still not sure multiplying/dividing ingredients will work.


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## ironchef (Mar 15, 2006)

Just taste as you go. Certain ingredients and/or cooking techniques/times may need to be adjusted depending on if you are dividing or multiplying the recipe.


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## mish (Mar 15, 2006)

ironchef said:
			
		

> Just taste as you go. Certain ingredients and/or cooking techniques/times may need to be adjusted depending on if you are dividing or multiplying the recipe.


 
Thank you, IC. Here's a look-see of some good-looking recipes, I'd like to see if I can adapt for a home cook:

http://www.food-management.com/recipes.php


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## bknox (Mar 15, 2006)

I know when commercial manufacturers scale a recipe they use ratios, 2% of this and 5% of that. I have seen this done when we have used wieghts but am not really sure if you are making soup or bread that uses measurements such as Tablespoons.


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## mish (Mar 15, 2006)

bknox said:
			
		

> I know when commercial manufacturers scale a recipe they use ratios, 2% of this and 5% of that. I have seen this done when we have used wieghts but am not really sure if you are making soup or bread that uses measurements such as Tablespoons.


 
Thanks bknox.  Good to know.  My main concern is for main dishes.


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## mudbug (Mar 15, 2006)

I am no good at any kind of math, mish.  Please excuse me from this discussion.  I usually make too much of everything.


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## subfuscpersona (Mar 15, 2006)

Alix said:
			
		

> Andy...why is baking different?...


I'm wondering why baking is different too. 

If the original recipe gives ingredients _by weight_ and I have a scale so I can also measure by weight, why wouldn't increasing/decreasing the recipe mathematically work - at least for the ingredients part of the recipe? 

(I understand that baking times would have to be adjusted for the  modified recipe and that would have to be based on experience or trial-and-error - not math!)


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## Alix (Mar 15, 2006)

My thoughts exactly. Although if I am doubling recipes I frequently would just use two or three pans and keep checking them to see if they were done.


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## Andy M. (Mar 15, 2006)

Alix said:
			
		

> Andy...why is baking different? I have never had an issue with trebling a cookie recipe for example.


 
Alix:

Scaling up a baking recipe can be problematic for a number of reasons.  Recipes using yeast or chemical leaveners are especially difficult.  A packet of active dry yeast, for example, can handle up to 6 cups of flour but are oftenused for half that amount.

A smaller increase in baking powder/soda is often called for.  If doubling a recipe, you probably would only increase the baking powder/soda by 1.5 times.  

Also, you have pan size to consider as well as the cooking times.


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## purrfectlydevine (Mar 15, 2006)

You have be careful about things like salt.  As an example I was tripling a baked corn recipe.  This was a recipe I had made many times as a regular recipe.  I tripled everything.   It was way too salty.  I fixed it by making up a single recipe with no salt and no salt added corn.  I mixed it with the salty triple batch.  The next time I added only 1 1/2 times the salt to make a triple recipe and then tasted before adding any more.


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## Alix (Mar 15, 2006)

Thank you Andy. I guess I am lucky I have never had an issue with any of my doubled or trebled recipes. I will pay attention to things like leavener from now on.


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## subfuscpersona (Mar 15, 2006)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> Alix:
> 
> Scaling up a baking recipe can be problematic for a number of reasons.  Recipes using yeast or chemical leaveners are especially difficult.  A packet of active dry yeast, for example, can handle up to 6 cups of flour but are oftenused for half that amount.
> 
> ...



Andy - thanks, that makes sense.

I'm thinking, though, that part of the problem may lie with recipes geared for the home cook (for example, most recipes I see for bread call for waaay to much yeast IMHO). 

Re baked goods, what if one started with a recipe for professional cooks that you wanted to scale *down*? The ones I've seen always have measurements by weight (for example, "Baking and Pastry" by the Culinary Institute of America). Do you think this kind of recipe would scale down more reliably?

I agree baking times would be a challenge - different pan sizes, more/fewer pans in the oven, type of oven - all of this would affect baking time and maybe even initial temp.


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## Andy M. (Mar 15, 2006)

I'm not a baking expert, but what some experts have said is that, if you want to scale a professional recipe that is measured in weights, you should use the percentage method.

From the original recipe, calculate the weights of the ingredients as a percentage of the flour's weight.  Then you reduce the flour weight and calculate the weights of the other items based on the percentages.


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## daisy (Mar 15, 2006)

Because I live alone, I frequently make half or quarter or one third (whichever is convenient according to my limited mathematical skills!) of a cookie or scone recipe. I have never had a problem with it. 

When I had family at home, I used to frequently double cookie recipes, too. But I've never cooked for 20 or 30 people. I think the principle woudl remain the same. The only difference would be in the cooking time, perhaps. 

Other recipes, I've fiddled with all the time. The only 'formula' I use is the keep the ingredients in proportion ie if you want halve/double the recipe, then halve/double all the ingredients. I have a beaut recipe for a meatloaf for which I always double the amount of the sauce, but keep to the recipe for the loaf itself. And for self-saucing puddings - ditto. Double the sauce. 

Mind you, I'm an inveterate 'recipe fiddler', with decades of experience behind me. It's easy to tell if something 'looks right' or not. If the cookie batter looks a bit too soft, I don't have a problem adding more flour, for instance! I use recipes only as a guide, not as something written in stone.


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## jasonr (Mar 15, 2006)

Scaling in baking can be done just fine in most circumstances. Bo Friberg, in the Professional Pastry Chef, states that all of his recipes (most of them scaled for professional use) can be multiplied or divided 4 times. If you want double the recipe, then just multiply every ingredient by 2. It isn't rocket science...

As for using baker's percentages, I think you're just complicating your life for no reason. A Baker's percentage is simply the ratio of a given ingredient to the amount of flour in the recipe. If there's 5 oz of butter and 10 oz of flour, then the baker's percentage for the butter is 50%. I am not a professional, so I am no expert on this, but my understanding of this system is that it is used primarily as a tool for comparing recipes to one another. If you want to glance at a brioche recipe and immediately understand how it compares to another brioche recipe, for example, a baker's percentage can be a useful tool. When I see a 50% butter figure, that tells me immediately what kind of brioche I'm dealing with, versus, say, a 100% figure. Using this method does not appear to have any real application to home baking. I imagine it helps streamline recipes for professionals, but honestly, I can't see why you'd bother at home. Just multiply and divide and you'll be fine in most cases.

That being said, it is true that you have to be careful. There have been times when I have gotten odd results when I tried to divide or multiply by 4 or more, although I have never had any trouble doubling or halving any recipe. I think there are two main reasons why excessive multiplying or dividing can ruin a recipe:

1. As others have alluded to, some ingredients, most notably yeast, do not necessarily scale well. There are also situations where there are physical and practical limitations to scaling: try to scale a cream the butter cookie recipe too far down, for example, and there isn't even enough butter for the mixer to mix; before you even start the machine, all the butter is dispersed on the side of the bowl.

2. Recipes are not perfect. The ingredient ratios are often approximations, especially when you're dealing with volume measurements, which are highly unreliable. Your 1/4 cup of flour may not be the same as someone else's. And this discrepency will only get bigger the more you scale the recipe. A recipe that more or less works as is can completely break if multiplied by 10.


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## Michael in FtW (Mar 16, 2006)

mish said:
			
		

> Can a recipe turn out correctly if you divide and conquer - or multiply - for the correct amount of servings? My instincts tell me no. Is there an accurate formula or ratio for scaling a recipe? ...


 
From everything I have ever read - recipes should only be adjusted by even multiples of 2 (double or half) or 4 (quadruple or quarter). Hormel has a good discussion on scaling recipes here. You can also Google on "scaling recipes" or "recipe scaling" and find some more resources such as Adapting Home Recipes for Quantity Cooking (has good info on adjusting cooking times) - but they all say pretty much the same thing.

One thing Andy_M brought up - scaling is not always a proportional double of everything if you are doubling the recipe. For things like baking powder, baking soda, herbs, spices and salt - if you increase the recipe by a factor of 2 you only increase those ingredients by a factor of 1.5, increase the recipe by a factor of 4 and you only increase those ingredients by a factor of 2. 

A lot goes back to the fundamental basics of "taste as you are cooking and adjust your seasonings accordingly" and "you can always add more of something but you can't take something away". 

The factors of 2 and 4 seem to be the magic workable scaling numbers. 

Sometimes - it's just easier to make multiple batches without changing anything.

Sorry I couldn't give you a definitive answer - but I haven't been able to find one.

Licia - I'm with Debbie ... post your recipe and I bet we can figure out how to cut it down to size for you!


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## subfuscpersona (Mar 16, 2006)

Twelve months ago I didn't even know what the Baker's Percentage was, much less how to use it.

Then I embarked on a personal odyssey to learn how to make different types of bread. During that time, the Baker's Percentage became an important tool in my efforts, not only for scaling a recipe, but in understanding the commonalities in different recipes for essentially the same thing and for working out ingredient substitutions. 

Mastering (and using) the Baker's Percentage really helped me for making both bread and pastry. It also changed the way I viewed recipes - now I'd never buy a cook book on baking that didn't show ingredients by weight (as well as volume) or have a Bakers Percentage formula for each recipe. 

sooo.....while the Baker's Percentage is more commonly used by professional bakers, I've found it incredibly useful too, even tho I'm only a home cook.


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## jasonr (Mar 16, 2006)

> Mastering (and using) the Baker's Percentage really helped me for making both bread and pastry. It also changed the way I viewed recipes - now I'd never buy a cook book on baking that didn't show ingredients by weight (as well as volume) or have a Bakers Percentage formula for each recipe.



On the measurement by weight issue, I agree. I rarely waste my time with a book that doesn't give mass measurements. The irony is that the "American" way (measurement by volume) is not only inferior in terms of accuracy, but is also a pain in the ***. Who needs to futz around with measuring cups and worrying about lines on your butter, when you can just throw it onto a scale in 1/4 the time and get perfect results?

However, on the issue of the baker's percentage, what do you find is so useful about it? How does it make you a better baker? I measure my skill based on how well I replicate the recipe and achieve what it is asking me to achieve. How does using a baker's percentage further this end? It seems to me good baking is about precisely following instructions combined with dexterity. Is knowing that my genoise has a butter to flour ratio of X:Y going to help me fold in the flour more delicately, and achieve a higher cake? Will knowing that my challah has a 1:3 egg to flour ratio (by weight) make it softer and more flavorful?

I can see the utility of using this method if I were going to categorize recipes. It would be very helpful as a comparative tool, especially if I were interested in developing my own recipe, and wanted to see how different recipes compare with one another. But I just can't understand how knowing this changes anything when you've got a recipe to follow and you want to get the best result.

I have read many professional level texts, and none of them have explained this to my satisfaction.


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## subfuscpersona (Mar 19, 2006)

jasonr on 03-16-2006 said:
			
		

> On the measurement by weight issue, I agree. I rarely waste my time with a book that doesn't give mass measurements...
> 
> I can see the utility of using this method if I were going to categorize recipes. It would be very helpful as a comparative tool, especially if I were interested in developing my own recipe, and wanted to see how different recipes compare with one another.



hi jasonr,

I'm more a bread and pastry maker - not good with cakes - but I like using (or seeing) the Bakers Percentage for all the reasons you cite - plus being able to scale a recipe (I often don't want to make as much bread as the recipe will yeild). 

And when you say


			
				jasonr on 03-16-2006 said:
			
		

> (how does) the baker's percentage... make you a better baker? I measure my skill based on how well I replicate the recipe and achieve what it is asking me to achieve... I just can't understand how knowing this changes anything when you've got a recipe to follow and you want to get the best result.


I agree there too. My problem is that I don't always want to follow a recipe (even an excellent one) or maybe it doesn't work for me in my kitchen with my equipment (or lack thereof) but I _still_ want to get the best results. Tracking my attempts (using the B's Pct along with careful notes) helps me  trouble shoot my own failures.

A lot of this comes from my personal habits, experience and inclinations. Especially in bread-baking I like to try different flours or experiment. Also, when I started making bread, it was hard to find different flours (even bread flour wasn't readily available) so I just got in the habit. I'm also comfortable with computers so I set up a spreadsheet to calculate ingredient amounts by weight, given the Bakers Percentage (I just plug in the amount of dough I want to end up with and it does the rest).

This thread started with questions about scaling and has kinda veered off in another direction (that's what fun about long threads!). Anyway, one thing I've learned from DC posters is that there are as many approaches to cooking (and baking) as there are cooks (and bakers!). Do what you are comfortable with - if it tastes good, you did it right!


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## Alyssa456 (Mar 20, 2006)

*How to scale recipes for just one person*

Hi, I have just learned how to cook. Most recipes are made for more than two servings. May I ask, if I just want to cook for myself, how should I calculate the ingredient to make just for one serving? If there is a recipe for 4 servings and I just want to make one serving, should I divide the ingredients by 4?


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## GB (Mar 20, 2006)

Hi Alyssa. Welcome to the site. Yes you have it exactly right. If you have a recipe that serves 4 and you just want to cook enough for one then divide everything by 4. 

Personally if it were me I would divide by 2 though. That way you have leftovers and another meal


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## Claire (Mar 21, 2006)

I'm going to sort of echo Michael FtW -- I actually learned to cook for six, and the truth is most of the time I still do, even though there are only two of us.  I often "halt" a meal at a point where I can freeze it and change it.  For example I was given a large venison roast.  I braised it with onions, garlic, red wine, spices.  At that point I divided it up and re-froze it.  Then I made us a stroganof for two.  Hubby made a goulash soup this week, and there is one more meal in the freezer.  I just find it simpler to make up the entire recipe, then divide it and have meals ready to go at a later date.  Especially if it is something I can change a little to make it different.  

When I do use a recipe that requires division, I make sure to pencil in the amounts that worked.  I don't view books as religious artifacts, but as working tools.  I have a couple of recipes I go back to, and the division has been done and written right next to the amounts in the original recipe.  For example, I tend to like foods less sweet than most might, or may decide I like a different ingredient.  I write that right into my cookbook so I'll remember it next time.


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## Jeremy (Mar 21, 2006)

*Recipe formula*

There is a formula for adding or subtracting amounts.

Take the NEW YEILD divide by OLD YEILD
which gives you the FACTOR.  
Multiply the FACTOR by the old ingredient amount for the new new ingredient amount.

For example:

converting 40 portions to 25 portions

25(new yeild) / 40(old yeild) = .625(factor)

.625 x 250g = 156.25g
.625 x 50mL= 31.25mL
.625 x 1 kg = 625 g
etc.

Or the other way,
converting 21 portions to 30 portions

30(new yeild) / 21(old yeild) = 1.58(factor)

1.58 x 115g = 164.45g
1.58 x 280mL= 400.4mL
1.58 x 3.6L = 5.15L

there may be some rounding up or down, but half a gram or mL either way will not make much of a difference.

Hope this helps 
J


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## purrfectlydevine (Mar 22, 2006)

Good to know this, just in case I would ever need it, but hopefully I never will, since I'm almost hopeless when it comes to math.


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## expatgirl (Mar 27, 2006)

*AllRecipes site on changing proportions*

Allrecipes.com is a great site that will convert measurements for both baking and nonbaked recipes.  They give you a standard recipe for example: a regular batch of cookies serving 8 people but if you need reducing or increasing then you type in the amount of servings that you want and the recipe is automatically changed for those servings.  You don't have to do the math at all.  Even better, if you have the time I strongly encourage taking the starred ratings into consideration with 5 stars being the highest .  Then take the time and read the reviews as I have found invaluable hints from people rating the recipes who are happy to tell you how they made it even better.  It's a very friendly website as well-----even when raters are criticizing the recipe they are nice about it.  I've been cooking over 25 years and still have found some great recipes there!  Hope this helps.


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## Addie (Apr 4, 2014)

Welcome to DC. This place is full of information. Thanks for the input.


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## Andy M. (Apr 4, 2014)

Why would this new thread be merged with one that's *eight years old*!?


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## Katie H (Apr 4, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> Why would this new thread be merged with one that's *eight years old*!?




Andy, I think it was merged a long time ago.  It's just that a new member brought it up to post a reply.  That's just a guess.


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## Andy M. (Apr 4, 2014)

Katie H said:


> Andy, I think it was merged a long time ago.  It's just that a new member brought it up to post a reply.  That's just a guess.




Thanks Katie,

If that's true, I must be losing it.  I thought, when I first saw it, that is was a new thread.  I think I'll go lie down.


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## Addie (Apr 4, 2014)

Andy M. said:


> Thanks Katie,
> 
> If that's true, I must be losing it.  I thought, when I first saw it, that is was a new thread.  I think I'll go lie down.



That's okay Andy. I get like that also. It comes with aging. Be patient with yourself. A nap is good for everything.


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## Addie (Apr 5, 2014)

mudbug said:


> I am no good at any kind of math, mish.  Please excuse me from this discussion.  I usually make too much of everything.



I will join you over in the corner and just sit and watch. It is a good thing God gave us fingers, so I can count.


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