# Tourtiere Pronunciation (split from recipe thread)



## buckytom (Nov 5, 2010)

mudbug said:


> love this pie (OK, love all pies - there, you made me say it!)
> 
> here's a discussion from long ago about the same lovely dish
> 
> http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f21/tourtiere-canadian-french-meat-pie-1735-5.html


 

lol, a blast from the past. thanks, 'bug.

claire, you were only a newcomer back then. funny how time flies.

ok, so i haven't read every post in either dimension of time (shoot me), so just how do you pronounce the thing?

tort-ee-aire?
tort-ee-a?
torch-ee-a?

i've been pronouncing pastys like the boobie devices, not the right way until i saw adam richman talk about it on man v. food.


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## taxlady (Nov 5, 2010)

buckytom said:


> lol, a blast from the past. thanks, 'bug.
> 
> claire, you were only a newcomer back then. funny how time flies.
> 
> ...



Tor chair


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## buckytom (Nov 5, 2010)

thanks taxlady.


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## Alix (Nov 5, 2010)

LOL, and I pronounce it tor tee air BT. My french canadian friends pronounced it that way so I just copied!


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## taxlady (Nov 5, 2010)

Alix said:


> LOL, and I pronounce it tor tee air BT. My french canadian friends pronounced it that way so I just copied!



I guess they were enunciating for you 

I put the everyday, sloppy talking, pronunciation.


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## Alix (Nov 5, 2010)

taxlady said:


> I guess they were enunciating for you
> 
> I put the everyday, sloppy talking, pronunciation.



Probably! Sloppy talking? LOL! I doubt that very much taxlady. Are you bilingual? I bastardize french whenever I try. I can understand most of whats said to me, but heaven help me if I try to string a sentence together.


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## Selkie (Nov 5, 2010)

Sloppy talking!? My mother's family have told me I know just enough French to sound as though I'm drunk!


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## taxlady (Nov 5, 2010)

Alix said:


> Probably! Sloppy talking? LOL! I doubt that very much taxlady. Are you bilingual? I bastardize french whenever I try. I can understand most of whats said to me, but heaven help me if I try to string a sentence together.



Yes, for some values of bilingual. I don't pass for Quebecoise, but I do understand (most of) what they say and can speak and read it. I can sort of write it.


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## LEFSElover (Nov 9, 2010)

Bolas De Fraile said:


> I love pies.


ditto


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## buckytom (Nov 9, 2010)

taxlady said:


> Yes, for some values of bilingual. I don't pass for *Quebecoise*, but I do understand (most of) what they say and can speak and read it. I can sort of write it.


 
lol, you had to start.

kuh-beck-wah-zee?

kuh-beck-waz?

kwah-beck-wah?


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## taxlady (Nov 9, 2010)

buckytom said:


> lol, you had to start.
> 
> kuh-beck-wah-zee?
> 
> ...



keh beh kwahz (female Quebecker)

I guess the "eh" is like the "eh" in "I'm Canadian, eh."


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## buckytom (Nov 9, 2010)

lol, thanks. i know very little fronch. 

i've played hockey with french speaking guys, and i never really needed to learn anything more than gauche and droite. they still cursed in english. 

moo-thair fook-aire.


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## taxlady (Nov 10, 2010)

buckytom said:


> lol, thanks. i know very little fronch.
> 
> i've played hockey with french speaking guys, and i never really needed to learn anything more than gauche and droite. they still cursed in english.
> 
> moo-thair fook-aire.



Actually most Quebec swearing is church related - words like chalice and host.


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## buckytom (Nov 10, 2010)

lol, i guess so. like the famous sacre bleu, or sacre dieu.


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## mudbug (Nov 17, 2010)

buckytom said:


> moo-thair fook-aire.


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## Claire (Dec 25, 2010)

Since I'm getting ready to make my annual tourtiere, I'm chiming in (yet again) here.  I have three younger sisters.  Last holiday season one called and asked for my recipe for tourtiere (by the way, when I was a kid, and illiterate in Quebecoise French, I thought my relatives were saying "toot-care").  So I walked her through it on the phone.  This year my "baby" sis emailed me, and I gave her my basics for making it.  She was making it for, I think, a buffet meal that was to have ethnic background.  She wrote me that it was a huge hit.  Meat pies have fallen away the side in this country, so they are sort of a novelty; but tourtiere goes on a buffet line so darned well.  In my family, everyone wants "Claire's" tourtiere.  

Last night I mentioned that I'm getting ready to make my annual tourtiere when we were out to dinner.  Now, in my childhood, it was made it for a late night (actually early a.m.) meal after midnight mass.  Now I save it for a sort of brunch meal, any time during the holidays.  When I mentioned it (to my definitely NOT Quebecoise friends) last night (That is to say Christmas eve), that I was making it sometime during the holiday season, thinking maybe New Years Day or soon after (2nd maybe, rather than 1st), they immediately hopped on board.  So I guess it's become a hit here as well.  At least among my friends.  And I brought the tradition back single handedly to my family.


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## Claire (Dec 25, 2010)

Actually, one time I said "kwuh-bek" to my friend's French (as in France-French, not Canadienne French) mother.  She took me to task.  "Claire, you can say that better, I know you can!!!"  Ugh!  I just laughed and corrected myself!  DO any of you ever take to pronouncing something incorrectly just because you want to make yourself understood?  Or, in some cases, if you say it correctly, people think you're putting on airs?  I know my parents will pronounce certain words if they're speaking in French differently than they will if they're speaking to people who are not of Canuck background.  In other words, "Kwebeck" if they're speaking to someone who speaks only American English, but "Kebeck" if it is a relative.


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## taxlady (Dec 25, 2010)

Claire, thanks for the reminder. I really should make some. I usually make three at once. My pie crust recipe makes three double crusts with one lb. of lard. That stuff is so tasty.


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## Zhizara (Dec 25, 2010)

Claire said:


> Actually, one time I said "kwuh-bek" to my friend's French (as in France-French, not Canadienne French) mother.  She took me to task.  "Claire, you can say that better, I know you can!!!"  Ugh!  I just laughed and corrected myself!  DO any of you ever take to pronouncing something incorrectly just because you want to make yourself understood?  Or, in some cases, if you say it correctly, people think you're putting on airs?  I know my parents will pronounce certain words if they're speaking in French differently than they will if they're speaking to people who are not of Canuck background.  In other words, "Kwebeck" if they're speaking to someone who speaks only American English, but "Kebeck" if it is a relative.



Definitely.  I'm deep in the south.  We speak a lot of what you'd call sloppy language.  Mostly on purpose.  Lots of double negatives, aint's etc.  I have never had much of an accent, probably because my Mother was from Maine, but didn't have an accent, my Daddy was from Raleigh.  Lots of twang there, but I learned to talk in Arizona.  I can turn southern on anytime I like.  Depending on who you are speaking to, it's just kind of friendly sounding. 

Here in New Orleans, the patois is very difficult to understand, especially when so many speak like they have a mouth full of grits.


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## Rocklobster (Dec 25, 2010)

I get to have some at my mother's house tomorrow. We are French Canadian and she makes it every year. She usually serves it on Boxing Day as an addition to Christmas turkey leftovers. I like to have it with a green tomato relish we call "green chow". Chase it down with an ice cold beer. I likey!
Roch


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## Rocklobster (Dec 25, 2010)

Claire said:


> DO any of you ever take to pronouncing something incorrectly just because you want to make yourself understood? Or, in some cases, if you say it correctly, people think you're putting on airs? I.


I'm like that when I order Chinese Food on the phone.


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## Rocklobster (Dec 25, 2010)

buckytom said:


> lol, i guess so. like the famous sacre bleu, or sacre dieu.


  Or Sac-re-iliack


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## taxlady (Dec 25, 2010)

Rocklobster said:


> I'm like that when I order Chinese Food on the phone.



In a similar vein, I say "white seed" or "black seed" when buying bagels at St-Viateur Bagel Factory. Otherwise I would say "sesame seed" or "poppy seed".


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## PrincessFiona60 (Dec 25, 2010)

If I know the correct way to say something, that is what I use in any conversation...except for Dubois, WY...it's Due-boyz...not Du-bwah...


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## taxlady (Dec 25, 2010)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> If I know the correct way to say something, that is what I use in any conversation...except for Dubois, WY...it's Due-boyz...not Du-bwah...



Do you say Eell-ee-nwah (Illinois)?
See-ooh (Sioux)?


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## PrincessFiona60 (Dec 25, 2010)

taxlady said:


> Do you say Eell-ee-nwah (Illinois)?
> See-ooh (Sioux)?


 
Ill-i-noy

Soo


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## Claire (Dec 26, 2010)

Actually, not being from the state I now call home, I have been known to call it eel-ee-nwa.  I don't do it often (like I said, I try, for the most part to blend in, party of my military brat upbringing).  Actually, sometimes many generations locals and I get in conversations, and I tell them that the tribe of Native Americans around here were called the Illini (I may have that misspelled)  and the early French settlers called this Illinois.  In other words, place of the Illini.  Like Tourquoise, the color, means Turkish in French, and Chinoise (think antiques and the Eastern correspondent, Chinoy, I think his name is), simply mean "Chinese" in French.

But, hey, I've got a thing for word origins.  Sort of a hobby for me.  But like I said, for the most part I pronounce words the way the locals do.  It's pop here, soda there, and my grandparents called it tonic.  It's a water fountain there, a bubbler there.  

The one thing I'll never get used to is Ant for Aunt.  Luckily, now that I'm a grand-aunt, I've graduated to being Ma Tante!  So no longer to I have to cringe when someone calls me "Anne-tee"!


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## PrincessFiona60 (Dec 26, 2010)

Claire said:


> Actually, not being from the state I now call home, I have been known to call it eel-ee-nwa. I don't do it often (like I said, I try, for the most part to blend in, party of my military brat upbringing). Actually, sometimes many generations locals and I get in conversations, and I tell them that the tribe of Native Americans around here were called the Illini (I may have that misspelled) and the early French settlers called this Illinois. In other words, place of the Illini. Like Tourquoise, the color, means Turkish in French, and Chinoise (think antiques and the Eastern correspondent, Chinoy, I think his name is), simply mean "Chinese" in French.
> 
> But, hey, I've got a thing for word origins. Sort of a hobby for me. But like I said, for the most part I pronounce words the way the locals do. It's pop here, soda there, and my grandparents called it tonic. It's a water fountain there, a bubbler there.
> 
> The one thing I'll never get used to is Ant for Aunt. Luckily, now that I'm a grand-aunt, I've graduated to being Ma Tante! So no longer to I have to cringe when someone calls me "Anne-tee"!


 
I too, grew up in the military.  I understand that attempt to "fit in" with the locals.  I crack up when someone says Miss-oola...shows they didn't grow up around here.  It's Mi-zoola...or Zootown.  

Funny thing about the Aunt...my nephew couldn't say Elizabeth, so my sister tried to teach him, "Beth"...which he kept pronouncing "Bath."   So, the day I pulled up for a visit after a long time, he was out on the porch, jumping up and down, yelling "Aunt Deth, Aunt Deth!"  My sister settled for "AuntE!" until he could pronounce my name after that!


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## taxlady (Dec 26, 2010)

Just for fun, my DH and I pronounce crudités "crud ites"


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## PrincessFiona60 (Dec 26, 2010)

taxlady said:


> Just for fun, my DH and I pronounce crudités "crud ites"


 
Hors d'œuvres are pronounced Horse Doovers...


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## taxlady (Dec 26, 2010)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> Hors d'œuvres are pronounced Horse Doovers...



I call 'em "horse dovers"


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## Rocklobster (Dec 26, 2010)

taxlady said:


> I call 'em "horse dovers"


 ervee dervee's.


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## Zhizara (Dec 26, 2010)

Claire said:


> Actually, not being from the state I now call home, I have been known to call it eel-ee-nwa.  I don't do it often (like I said, I try, for the most part to blend in, party of my military brat upbringing).  Actually, sometimes many generations locals and I get in conversations, and I tell them that the tribe of Native Americans around here were called the Illini (I may have that misspelled)  and the early French settlers called this Illinois.  In other words, place of the Illini.  Like Tourquoise, the color, means Turkish in French, and Chinoise (think antiques and the Eastern correspondent, Chinoy, I think his name is), simply mean "Chinese" in French.
> 
> But, hey, I've got a thing for word origins.  Sort of a hobby for me.  But like I said, for the most part I pronounce words the way the locals do.  It's pop here, soda there, and my grandparents called it tonic.  It's a water fountain there, a bubbler there.
> 
> The one thing I'll never get used to is Ant for Aunt.  Luckily, now that I'm a grand-aunt, I've graduated to being Ma Tante!  So no longer to I have to cringe when someone calls me "Anne-tee"!



I too have always been interested in word origins.  I came across the book "Word Power Made Easy" by Norman Vincent Peale back in the '60s.  There were lessons telling about how osteo means bone, etc., and at the end of the lesson there was a quiz.  That one book gave me so much knowledge.  I can look at most new words and break down the components and figure out the meaning.


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## Claire (Dec 26, 2010)

So many cities in the country have bastardized pronunciations of the original  When we were on the road I'd crack people up calling places like Papillion like the French word for butterfly (heck, there's a butterfly painting on the water tower) and Cairo as if it was a city in Egypt rather than a bottle of corn syrup.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Dec 26, 2010)

Claire said:


> So many cities in the country have bastardized pronunciations of the original When we were on the road I'd crack people up calling places like Papillion like the French word for butterfly (heck, there's a butterfly painting on the water tower) and Cairo as if it was a city in Egypt rather than a bottle of corn syrup.


 
True!  I finished growing up, after Dad's stint in the Air Force, in Laramie, WY.  It's a French word, La-ray-mi...we say Lara-mi.  Seems to me the French words and names have suffered the most.


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## Claire (Dec 26, 2010)

I keep in all the "juices" (I use ground meat that is lean, so the juices aren't just fat), then use instant mashed potatoes as the binder.  It's a shortcut, but tastes good and keeps the slices looking like slices.


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## Claire (Dec 26, 2010)

By the way, tourtiere party is the 2nd.  We were arranging it last night over Christmas dinner at a friend's.  I mentioned that dinner (or lunch) when they visited would be tourtiere.  OMG, my friend said.  "Daddy, you haven't had this.  It is really authentic old cooking that actually tastes good!"


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## PrincessFiona60 (Dec 26, 2010)

Claire said:


> By the way, tourtiere party is the 2nd. We were arranging it last night over Christmas dinner at a friend's. I mentioned that dinner (or lunch) when they visited would be tourtiere. OMG, my friend said. _*"Daddy, you haven't had this. It is really authentic old cooking that actually tastes good*!_"


 
That's funny!  Most old-fashioned tastes good!


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## Claire (Dec 26, 2010)

Princess, I think you're right, the French names have suffered the most, but no language is exempt.  I never thought of Laramie as being a French word (I grew up between Europe and living out west), but now that you mention it.  I also try to figure out what place names mean.  Des Moines, IA.  Huh?  The nearest I can make out it means "of the monks"?   Actually, I think I'll start a line elsewhere and see if anyone is interested.


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## Claire (Dec 26, 2010)

Oh, I don't know.  My grandmother's and eldest aunts' tourtiere was nowhere near as good as mine.  I swear, they just took very fatty ground pork, raw, patted it into a pie crust, and baked it.  It took easily 30 years and a decade of my friend and I having a sort of competition, to come up with a recipe.  My sisters wouldn't touch the stuff with a ten-foot pole until I refined it, and now they make it for the family.  But both my parents will readily say that their mothers were truly lousy cooks.

I've been to a couple of "authentic" banquets from the 17th and 18th centuries, and trust me, you don't want to go there!


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## Zhizara (Dec 26, 2010)

Claire said:


> I keep in all the "juices" (I use ground meat that is lean, so the juices aren't just fat), then use instant mashed potatoes as the binder.  It's a shortcut, but tastes good and keeps the slices looking like slices.





That's a wonderful idea.  Thanks.


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## taxlady (Dec 26, 2010)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> That's funny!  Most old-fashioned tastes good!



True, but over cooked vegis comes to mind.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Dec 26, 2010)

taxlady said:


> True, but over cooked vegis comes to mind.


 
Yes, but I am thinking of all the wonderful things my Great-Grandmother cooked that I would never eat now because of salt and fat content. I believe it's our duty to continue the Traditions...but use our brains to make them more healthy.

I didn't use to feel guilty using a stick of butter to create a dish, now I have second thoughts and use part butter and part veg oil. The flavor is still there. Favorite veg dishes are re-created with steamed veg with the same sauces. etc.


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## Claire (Dec 26, 2010)

My mom was (is, she's still kicking and cooking) a great cook.  Because of budgetary restraints, she used either corn oil or margarine.  I, too mostly use a combo.  If I want butter taste, I'll heat a pool of olive oil, then put a dab of butter in it.  I get some butter flavor, without the heaviness.  Obviously this depends upon what cuisine I'm cooking.


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## joesfolk (Dec 26, 2010)

Claire said:


> Actually, one time I said "kwuh-bek" to my friend's French (as in France-French, not Canadienne French) mother. She took me to task. "Claire, you can say that better, I know you can!!!" Ugh! I just laughed and corrected myself! DO any of you ever take to pronouncing something incorrectly just because you want to make yourself understood? Or, in some cases, if you say it correctly, people think you're putting on airs? I know my parents will pronounce certain words if they're speaking in French differently than they will if they're speaking to people who are not of Canuck background. In other words, "Kwebeck" if they're speaking to someone who speaks only American English, but "Kebeck" if it is a relative.


 
When I was in the Navy, about a million years ago, I learned to say "Key-beck".  But when I read the word silently it's always Kwa-beck.  Go figure.


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## Rocklobster (Dec 26, 2010)

They wear chooks in Quebec.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Dec 26, 2010)

Rocklobster said:


> They wear chooks in Quebec.


 
They wear chickens?


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## Rocklobster (Dec 26, 2010)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> They wear chickens?


lol

I mean Tukes. In this part of the Valley, the slang is pronounced Chook.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Dec 26, 2010)

Rocklobster said:


> lol
> 
> I mean Tukes. In this part of the Valley, the slang is pronounced Chook.


 
At least I knew a Chook was a chicken...


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## Claire (Dec 26, 2010)

Just goes to show you how regional language can be.  I've never heard of that as a chicken.  But Daddy always wore a toque (we pronounced took), a knit hat.  Chicken?  I'm missing something!  How fun, though.


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## buckytom (Dec 27, 2010)

lol, boy, this thread has coitanly taken off, and i love it.  like claire, i'm interested in the etymology of words, and cultural influences on slang.
i'm not so interested in getting it right, not in a temporally colloquial sense. i don't have much to say that matters in those (or many, lol) cases, but it's fun to listen and absorb.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Dec 27, 2010)

Claire said:


> Just goes to show you how regional language can be. I've never heard of that as a chicken. But Daddy always wore a toque (we pronounced took), a knit hat. Chicken? I'm missing something! How fun, though.


 
Actually it's Australian slang for chicken.  see:  World Wide Words: Chook


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## Claire (Dec 27, 2010)

I think if such a road was open to me as a young person, I'd be an etymologist.  As it is, about 10 years ago I met a woman who was legally blind, and getting worst by the minute.  Since I'd had some serious vision problems, I asked her if I could read to her.  It took her a year or so, but then she realized there was much she wanted to read that wasn't on "books on tape" and she didn't like that anyway.  So I started reading to her a couple of times a week.  Often more conversation about what we're reading than reading by itself.  But mostly we discovered this common love of words.  What does this mean, where did it come from?  

Have you ever read a book called, I think, _The Story of English_?  I can go up and find the author, and I think it was a PBS series.  But someone will google or wiki it before I can walk up the stairs and back down!


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## PrincessFiona60 (Dec 27, 2010)

Actually, I Amazoned it! LOL  Amazon.com: The Story of English: Revised Edition (9780140154054): Robert McCrum, William Cran, Robert MacNeil: Books

Not done for a Kindle...there are still books in paper, yea!


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## Rocklobster (Dec 27, 2010)

I am from the Ottawa Valley. It is a mainly rural region Northwest of our capital.  The people here are known for their heavy accent and dialect. And we all have chimleys on our house to vent the furnace...I have lived many places, but always seem to fall back into the valley accent whenever I come back.


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## taxlady (Dec 27, 2010)

I love Quebec English. We don't go to the convenience store, we go to the dep. It's short for dépanneur, which is the French word for convenience store. We don't ride the subway, we take the Métro. We don't have electricity, we have Hydro (short for the name of our electricity company, Hydro Québec). When the power goes out, we have a panne.


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## joesfolk (Dec 27, 2010)

I have always been interested in knowing which parts of the country call a bar a beer garden.  I know that they call it that in some parts of Michigan and Wisconsin.  Anywhere else?


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## buckytom (Dec 28, 2010)

you can grow beer in a garden??? 

oh man, i've totally been ordering from the wrong seed catalogues...


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## Rocklobster (Dec 28, 2010)

joesfolk said:


> I have always been interested in knowing which parts of the country call a bar a beer garden. I know that they call it that in some parts of Michigan and Wisconsin. Anywhere else?


 We have beer gardens at special events like a fair, or a festival. They are usually under tents or in auditoriums at fair grounds or sports arenas where the event is occuring.


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## joesfolk (Dec 28, 2010)

That makes perfect sense to me since you are right across the lakes from Michigan.  Howdy neighbor.


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## Claire (Dec 28, 2010)

Bucky, when I first moved here, there were hops growing in the alley behind my house.  Is that a beer garten?


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