# The Metric System in the USA



## Andy M. (Jul 6, 2007)

The controversy continues. So do we or don't we convert? Vote and state your reasons.


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## Andy M. (Jul 6, 2007)

The changeover would have to be gradual so people and businesses could switch over.  Once that's done, the metric system would make life a lot easier.


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## auntdot (Jul 6, 2007)

Am very conversant with both systems.  

I cannot comment on the economic impact to industry.

But I don't think most people wouldl have too much of a problem.

For every day purposes we will need a few more measuring toys, such as scales in grams and kilos, rulers and tape measures in cm and measuring cups in ml, that sort of thing. It is just as easy to measure the length of your foot in cm as it is in inches, you just need the right tool with marks in cm.

And as Andy says the change would occur gradually with both units being used.  We would not have to go into a deli the day after the new system was adopted and ask for 250 grams of salami, nah, we could still just order half a pound.

For those times when one needs to convert measurements I am sure there will be tons of pocket calculators on the market that one could probably pick up at Walmart for a few bucks.

I don't think it will be a problem for most people, it is just the fear of those conversions we had to make in school that I believe daunts many folk.

Anyway just my take on things.


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## Alix (Jul 7, 2007)

OK, I voted yes, just because that would make life simpler here. LOL. OK, really though, I had to laugh about measuring your foot in cm instead of inches. Canada has been metric for 30 years or more and I've NEVER measured my foot in anything but inches. There are some pieces of imperial measurement that just "stick". And there are those folks who are resistant to ANY change at all. 

IMO, the easiest way to change is to just DO it. Put it in the schools and teach it to the kids and let them bring it home to their parents to help teach it to them. Worked here.


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## SurvivorGirl (Jul 7, 2007)

I don't really see what the difference is. If people are happy with imperial and understand it then why not just leave it be? i voted for the third "whatever" one.


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## love2"Q" (Jul 7, 2007)

i voted for no .. i grew up in scotland .. learned metric ..
now in US and a carpenter .. i am trying to think 
how much confusion and money a change like that would 
cost .. my guess is it would be a disaster ..


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## buckytom (Jul 7, 2007)

Alix said:
			
		

> I've NEVER measured my foot in anything but inches.


 
i'm hoping you always came up with 12...  

i say go for the metric system.

it's 28.35 times easier.


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## Robo410 (Jul 7, 2007)

we have already begun with liters of soda, etc.  That 12oz "pound of coffee"??? well three of them makes a kilo.


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## bethzaring (Jul 7, 2007)

well yeah, 

i was taught metric in jr. high cause it was just around the corner . It was so easy to learn.  We should just get on with it


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## skilletlicker (Jul 7, 2007)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> The controversy continues. So do we or don't we convert?
> . . .
> The changeover would have to be gradual so people and businesses could switch over.  Once that's done, the metric system would make life a lot easier.


What controversy?  I was taught the metric system in elementary school and told I had to learn it because those were going to be the units of measure in the future.  That was nearly 50 years ago and I guess they were right but the changeover has been extremely gradual indeed.  Soda is sold by the liter.  Virtually everything in the grocery store is labeled both ways.  The only way I can imagine it turning into a controversy would be if somebody was silly enough to try to mandate it.


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## ironchef (Jul 7, 2007)

I really don't care either way. If we keep the current system, then easier for myself and other cooks/chefs but if they convert to metric, so be it. We adjust to it and move on.


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## cara (Jul 8, 2007)

I would appreciate it - no more double measurements in recipes


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## AllenOK (Jul 8, 2007)

When I was in college, and just starting, we were converting recipes up and down.  We were told that we wouldn't have to deal with the metric recipes.  Guess what?  The instructor gave them to us anyway.  I found that scaling recipes up/down in metric was MUCH easier than American/Imperial.

My pyrex 2-c and 4-c measuring cups have metric on them as well.  My kitchen scale can do oz or grams.  My jewelry scale does grams, accurate to 0.1 g.

I'd need a new knob on my oven, with the Celcius degrees instead of Farenheit.  I'd also need new measuring spoons, and measuring cups (the 1, 1/2, 1/3, and 1/4 c type).

Distance is going to be fun.  All those highway signs.  Not to mention that some things are just going to clash.  This country was surveyed using miles, and property is measured in feet.  Heck, the street grid here in Tulsa is laid out on the section lines, so major surface streets are every mile.

I used to have some javascript calculators that I wrote on a webpage that would convert temp, grams-to-oz, and mL-to-teaspoons.  I kept that webpage stored on my hard drive, so I wouldn't need internet access to convert recipes.  However, I lost that when I lost my previous laptop.  There are however, many different metric-imperial conversion websites out there.


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## The Z (Jul 9, 2007)

Any 'controversy' would soon pass once the public realized it wasn't a matter for discussion.  I get so tired of good ideas dying in this country because a vocal majority think it's going to be too hard.

I, like many others, was taught the metric system in school with the belief that conversion was coming soon.  I even remember road signs along the interstate highway system with distances labled in both miles an kilometers.  Those are now gone.  Sure, a lot of things ARE labled both ways, but I'd still like to see it adopted as an American standard.

Other countries converted to the metric system in the not so distant past (Australia) and it's working out fine.  I, for one, would rather talk in millimeters rather than 8ths or 16ths of an inch.


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## skilletlicker (Jul 9, 2007)

The Z said:
			
		

> Other countries converted to the metric system in the not so distant past (Australia) and it's working out fine.  I, for one, would rather talk in millimeters rather than 8ths or 16ths of an inch.


It's a free country.  Who's stopping you from talking metric?


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## Katie H (Jul 9, 2007)

It would be an interesting exercise, for those of us who desire, to convert to metric on our own.  That way, when and if it becomes the "system," we'll have already adapted.

There's nothing to say we can't do that.


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## SurvivorGirl (Jul 9, 2007)

I'm surprised at all the opposed. there seem to be many!


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## skilletlicker (Jul 9, 2007)

Katie E said:
			
		

> It would be an interesting exercise, for those of us who desire, to convert to metric on our own.  That way, when and if it becomes the "system," we'll have already adapted.
> 
> There's nothing to say we can't do that.


 Actually I think those of us who post in DC ought, as a matter of courtesy, consider the significant number of our members who aren't as familiar with our units of measurement.  I will try  more often to show both units.  We would all thereby become more comfortable with both systems.  Should I fail or forget in some instance I beg the same degree of reciprocal tolerance.

Katie, I think it is *only* a critical number of us "converting on our own" that will truly change the "system."  After all, isn't that the lesson, or at least the hope, from our younger days?


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## fireweaver (Jul 9, 2007)

a very clever & snarky physics prof i had waaaay back in high school said that the only way our hidebound country was going to finally switch was if someone just went and changed all the highway signs overnight.  not like the distance would be any different at all, still an hour from here to mom's for example, just in kms now instead of miles.  people would figure out their own mental concepts & conversions in no time if it just *was*.  the slow change-over plan doesn't do any favors, but simply gives people the excuse to choose to not pay attention to anything new.  just do it already!

i'm a scientist, so *everything* in my head already is metric (ok, except for miles per hour whilst driving).  i have NO luck at all converting oz/lb/pints/bla bla bla.  all that wacky stuff makes no sense whatsoever, and i'm more than ready for the long promised change to hurry up and get here already.


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## middie (Jul 10, 2007)

I say no. It's hard enough for me to understand it as it is. And then I'll have to go back and learn this stuff all over again ??? Heck no.


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## sparrowgrass (Jul 10, 2007)

Need to convert ounces to grams or fluid ounces to liters?  Just type it into your google toolbar.

 Type "26 milliliters = ? ounces" into google, and you will get 

"*26 milliliters = 0.879164587 US fluid ounces"*

Works for any conversion--pounds to grams, feet to miles, kilometers to inches, whatever.  Don't forget the question mark.


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## bowlingshirt (Jul 10, 2007)

Nah, it would mess up the football fields.


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## JamminJonah (Jul 10, 2007)

We're nuts for not having already adopted the metric system.  I think it would be a good global political statement (look!  The US isn't as ethnocentric as we thought!) plus it would make international travel much simpler.  As the global economy grows more and more of us will be traveling overseas with greater regularity.  Plus it would help in coordinating with foreign troops.  Has anyone heard the fabled story of the satelite launch where the conversion was botched and the satellite missed it's target and flew into space?  Not sure if it's true but it's certainly plausable.

I personally feel that the gradual changeover would be ineffective.  Nobody would do it until the last minute anyway and according the the 1980's mandate aren't we supposed to be metric already?  I propose a cutoff date.  For example on July 4th of 2010 all products must be changed over to metric.  You will buy litres of gasoline (providing a better apples to apples view of the world oil market), you will buy litres of milk, signs will be in kilometers etc. 

As the economy shifts to a more global scale and technology brings us ever closer together demand for a unified measurement system will grow.  The english system is outdated and inefficient.  Plus metric makes science class much easier )


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## bowlingshirt (Jul 10, 2007)

JamminJonah said:
			
		

> Has anyone heard the fabled story of the satelite launch where the conversion was botched and the satellite missed it's target and flew into space?


 
Good point. If a rocket scientist can't figure it out, then who can


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## GB (Jul 10, 2007)

I think it is crazy for us not to change. Metric is a much easier system. We are dealing with a global economy now and it only makes sense that we all "speak the same language". So many other countries have made the switch and have done it relatively easily. It is insane to think the same could not happen in the USA.


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## Foodfiend (Jul 10, 2007)

It would be extremely hard for me, my mind is not mathematically geared to conversions. I would definitely have to have a book of conversions around so I wouldn't screw up a recipe.


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## skilletlicker (Jul 10, 2007)

JamminJonah said:
			
		

> I think it would be a good global political statement (look!  The US isn't as ethnocentric as we thought!)


 I just don't believe people would think that.


			
				JamminJonah said:
			
		

> You will buy litres of gasoline


 Will they still cost whatever plus 9/10ths cent?


			
				JamminJonah said:
			
		

> you will buy litres of milk


 I already do.  3.78 liters to be precise.  It says so right on the label next to 1 gallon pursuant to the Fair Packaging and Labeling Act.


			
				GB said:
			
		

> We are dealing with a global economy now and it only makes sense that we all "speak the same language".


 I'm all for improved communication but the thrust of the metricationists is not bilingualism but a ban on English measurements.
By 12/31/09 all products sold in Europe (with limited exceptions) will be required to have only SI-metric units on their labels. Dual labeling will not be permitted.  At that point US companies would either have different labels for EU exports or show only the metric unit in the US, a practice currently forbidden under FPLA.


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## Alix (Jul 10, 2007)

You know, the conversion thing isn't as hard as everyone seems to think. You just need to memorize a few things and then you can calculate easily. For example a teaspoon is 5 ml...making a US tablespoon 15 ml. (In the UK and Oz however, a tablespoon is 20 ml.) Once you memorize a few of the measurements you use regularly the conversion is easy.


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## CharlieD (Jul 10, 2007)

I voted Yes. I probably would have not use terms as strong as you put it there, but indeed, market analists have been talking about it for a while, saying that metric system would open doors for more business around the world and would make up for the conversion expensess in no time.


As far as using meric system it doesn't get any easier. if you know how to count till 10 you pretty much know how to use metric system. Simply because everything is in 10s. And what is the difference if you have to measure a cup, for example, you have to have a mesuaring cup. If you have to mesure 200 grams you use scale instead. I don't understand the problem. On the other hand advantage of using metric is obvious. Say you need to multiple or scale down the recipe. So instead of 3 cups 2 table spoons and 1 and a half tea spoon in the result you get 735 gramms (for example). So, what's the big deal. You are putting  product on the scale anyway, what is the difference how much you put there, thescale will tale you exactly what you have there. How much easier can it be?


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## CharlieD (Jul 10, 2007)

bowlingshirt said:
			
		

> Good point. If a rocket scientist can't figure it out, then who can


 

They did not have to figure anything out. Just one group was working in Standard system and the other in metric. There was lack of comunication. That is simply stupid. But again, if there was only one system the mistale like that would not have happened.


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## skilletlicker (Jul 10, 2007)

Alix said:
			
		

> You know, the conversion thing isn't as hard as everyone seems to think. You just need to memorize a few things and then you can calculate easily. For example a teaspoon is 5 ml...making a US tablespoon 15 ml. (In the UK and Oz however, a tablespoon is 20 ml.) Once you memorize a few of the measurements you use regularly the conversion is easy.


 If you're going to start interjecting common sense into this conversation the rest of us will all look bad.


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## Alix (Jul 10, 2007)

skilletlicker, LMAO here! Sorry about that. I just really don't see this as a tough thing. I admit, I do have an advantage in that I had to learn metric early and now use both all the time. 

Gotta tell you though, I was watching Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader and on the question how many feet are in a mile I was totally blank. They make you guys memorize weird crap like that? Now ask me how many meters in a kilometer and I'm all over it!


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## middie (Jul 10, 2007)

Alix said:
			
		

> You know, the conversion thing isn't as hard as everyone seems to think. You just need to memorize a few things and then you can calculate easily. For example a teaspoon is 5 ml...making a US tablespoon 15 ml. (In the UK and Oz however, a tablespoon is 20 ml.) Once you memorize a few of the measurements you use regularly the conversion is easy.


 
You already lost me there Alix  . This converting thing wouldn't be good for me.


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## CharlieD (Jul 10, 2007)

Alix said:
			
		

> You know, the conversion thing isn't as hard as everyone seems to think. You just need to memorize a few things and then you can calculate easily. For example a teaspoon is 5 ml...making a US tablespoon 15 ml. (In the UK and Oz however, a tablespoon is 20 ml.) Once you memorize a few of the measurements you use regularly the conversion is easy.


 
Neah, you do not have to memorise anything. That is why you have scale.


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## expatgirl (Jul 11, 2007)

Walk a meter, drink a liter, weigh a gram---that was my high school chemistry/biology teacher's mantra back in  the 1970 's when they were trying to pound the metric system into our heads----how difficult it seemed at the time ----but I have lived overseas on and off for so many years you HAVE to learn it and thank goodness I have a scale to measure grams/ounces. ( I now know what a kilo of cucumbers, etc,  feel like--about 6 cukes-- and a kilo is 2.2 pounds) Also as far as converting miles to kilometers multiply by .6 so if it's 10 USA miles somewhere it's  6 kilometers over here. 36 US miles is 6 kilometers.  Or multiply the kilometers by 6 to get it in miles.  Really,that part is not too hard.  My biggest problem is converting the temperatures.  I have finally learned if they say 40 degrees (Celcius overseas as opposed to the US Farenheit) it's dadgum hot. It's  comparable to being in the 90's but I can't do that calculation in my head so you know that anything over 30 degrees C  is  very warm.  Anyway enough of the math-----my head is swimming!!!


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## mitmondol (Jul 11, 2007)

1 mile = 1.6 km
40C = 104F
You know, funny thing is, after many years my head is still tuned into metric.
When I look at prices at the store and I think, dang, this cheese is not cheap! I think in kg. THEN I realize it's twice as expensive, since the price is for half of that!


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## Alix (Jul 11, 2007)

I love this discussion. And middie, sorry girl. Didn't mean to confuse you, but really, its very simple. 

I just about choked on my lemonade reading about the temps too. I am forever converting celcius to fahrenheit when I chat with folks in the US. I think that might be another whole thread though. Is the US the only country that still uses F instead of C?


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## Elf (Jul 11, 2007)

I thought that the US had already " Officially" converted back in the 80's but everyone just ignored the fact.


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## daisy (Jul 16, 2007)

The US should absolutely step into line with the rest of the word and go metric. I find it astonishing that a country which prides itself on being ahead of the rest should lag so far behind in this one area - like half a century or more! There's a very strong case for world-wide standardisation - there have been cases of airline crashes which have resulted from misunderstandings of one measurement convention over another. I cannot give you a specific example - but my son is an air crash investigator and has told me this (he is not allowed to speak in specifics). 

Metric is incredibly easy to use, and it's logical (in mathematical terms). Once you forget about converting, that is. Converting is like trying to speak in two languages at once.

Think of it like this: you can measure a line in any measurement-convention you like. It doesn't matter whether it's inches or centimetres or Whatchamacallits. You just count the lines on the ruler. Well, it's even easier than that with metric! 

I grew up with Imperial measurements, and was well into adulthood when the metric system was introduced into Australia (41 years ago). I had no difficulty whatsoever with the changeover, and I'm seriously mathematically challenged. Even the older generation had no difficulty with it. You just measure out your ingredients until the numbers on the scales are the same as the numbers on the recipe! Our government sent every household a handy converter, and it worked like a dream, and still works. It's learned very quickly indeed.

The thing that most Americans find difficult is the conversions. They seem to have a poor concept of 'rounding', and try to work with impossible numbers, like '1.2345kg' of something. Ridiculous, in anybody's terms.


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## mudbug (Jul 16, 2007)

I only know one way to measure a kilo and I don't do that anymore.


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## Andy M. (Jul 16, 2007)

How many lines in a kilo?  Is a line a metric or imperial unit of measure?


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## mudbug (Jul 16, 2007)

No, it was more of a Ziploc baggie kind of concept, Andy.


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## wysiwyg (Jul 16, 2007)

There is no doubt the metric system is simpler and more straightforward.
The advantages are not just relative to single measurements (weight or dimensions) and relationships to bigger/smaller units, but also when converting volume to weight... To me, is an absolute YES so we can use our brains for more productive tasks rather than memorize how many liquid oz. has a gallon.


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## wysiwyg (Jul 16, 2007)

Andy,
A line is an imperial measurement, there is no such thing in the metric system


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## Ozgal (Jul 17, 2007)

For a few years after they converted to metric in Australia, my father used to convert temperatures, speeds and distances back to imperial.  But after a while he just stopped.  He just started to know that 26º C is a lovely forecast, 130 km/h is too fast to drive and a 2 km walk is not that far.  My father was an old stick in the mud but he managed very well.  

I'm grateful that people like my father changed their thinking so that their kids could use the same measures as most of the world and wouldn't be stuck trying to divide by 8 or 12 or 16 or some other random number.  Multiples of 10 are so much easier to calculate.


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## skilletlicker (Jul 17, 2007)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> How many lines in a kilo?  Is a line a metric or imperial unit of measure?





			
				wysiwyg said:
			
		

> Andy,
> A line is an imperial measurement, there is no such thing in the metric system


 What is a line in this context?


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## miniman (Jul 17, 2007)

We converted here in the UK back in the 70s and still have dual systems. Metric is taught in schools so gradually the bias is going towards the metric and as a teacher, I have to do all the work in metric units. Us oldies still go and buy a pound of meat.

Food is mostly labelled in metric especially as the European Union is trying to force metrication through and most food supplies are sold throughout Europe.

As someone else said, you start to know the rough comparisons eg a lb is approx the same as 450g, a pint is about 600ml. I still find miles & kilometers hard to compare.


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## mitmondol (Jul 17, 2007)

Having to go through the exact opposit, let me tell you, it was probably harder.
Metric is perfectly logical and simple.
Going from there to perfectly illogical measurements - now that is hard!
And just think, how much more accurate measurements are if you use grams for instance.
And how much easier is multiplying by 10 is.
That's all metric is about
1x10=10x10=100x10=1000
Weight, linear measurements, distances all the same principal.
Isn't that easier? 
1 mile is 1.6 km (or 16000m)
I have no idea how many yards in a mile, but I know there are 1000m in a km.
Before I make it look more confusing, I think the opposition is only about a mindset. Nobody can argue the logic.
The whole world is using metric (well almost), why not we?


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## bowlingshirt (Jul 17, 2007)

mitmondol said:
			
		

> 1 mile is 1.6 km (or 16000m)


 
You said 1.6 km = 16,000 m

simple base 10 system indeed.


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## mitmondol (Jul 17, 2007)

Sorry, 

1 mile is 1600m

and yes, it is simple 10 based system.
1 km = 1000m
The problem is miles not the km


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## flukx (Jul 17, 2007)

I skipped over most of the discussion, so I apologize if I repeat anything. Having grown up in the US and been living in Europe the past 4 years, I have absolutely no preference either way as I have learned to calculate from either one. However, most of the world uses metric, and so should the US. I think this not because of everyday measurements such as footsize, clothes, or cooking reasons, but because of things I consider to be more important get messed up because of the difference, i.e. scientific collaboration. I remember not long ago that something with the building of the International Space Station got messed up because someone forgot to convert imperial to metric. Thats a 300 odd million dollar mistake.


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## TiggerHomeMom (Jul 17, 2007)

I grew up in Colombia and we learned both. Metric was what was used when we were away from school. I don't really care oneway or the other but I think that when mutliple cultures are involved on a project they should ... before the project gets under way ... agree to one or the other to avoid expensive "do-overs".
Not worth much, but that is my opinion.


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## skilletlicker (Jul 17, 2007)

mitmondol said:
			
		

> Having to go through the exact opposit, let me tell you, it was probably harder.
> Metric is perfectly logical and simple.
> Going from there to perfectly illogical measurements - now that is hard!
> And just think, how much more accurate measurements are if you use grams for instance.
> ...


 I have known since early childhood that there are 5,280 feet in a mile.  I have never once found any useful application for this fact.  I strongly doubt knowing there are 1,000 meters in a km. would be any different.

Some of you seem to think that if you only just explain the metric system system a little slower, or a little louder, those of us so unfortunately dim-witted that we haven't yet figured it out, will gratefully jump on the bandwagon.  Here's the crux of it.  I can speak metric, I just don't want to.


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## Alix (Jul 17, 2007)

Skilletlicker, no one is trying to tell you to DO anything. And the fact that most of the world uses metric is an indicator of how easy it is to use. 

Just because you've known forever that there are so many feet in a mile is not relevant to what folks are saying about the metric system being a base ten system. You had to learn a specific number and memorize it. What folks are saying about the metric system is that you don't HAVE to do that. All you need to do is add a zero or two at the end of the number instead of memorizing things like 5280ft/mile. 

No one is intending to slam you or belittle you in any way. No one has indicated you are dimwitted at all. I have followed this quite closely to be sure this thread stayed on track. People have strong opinions one way or another. They are as entitled to theirs as you are to yours.


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## wysiwyg (Jul 17, 2007)

I was trying to reduce a sauce recipe today from 8 servings to 3 and I must tell you... Can someone explain to me why there are cups, pints, ounces and quarters ? oh, and some are in fractions while other in regular numbers ?

Where is the metric system when you need it ?  LOL 
The entire world (minus USA, UK and some other countries I am missing) can't be wrong.


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## skilletlicker (Jul 17, 2007)

Alix said:
			
		

> Skilletlicker, no one is trying to tell you to DO anything. And the fact that most of the world uses metric is an indicator of how easy it is to use.
> . . .
> No one is intending to slam you or belittle you in any way. No one has indicated you are dimwitted at all. I have followed this quite closely to be sure this thread stayed on track. People have strong opinions one way or another. They are as entitled to theirs as you are to yours.


 Alix, I didn't think anyone slammed or belittled me and I don't think I said or implied that any one was not entitled to their opinion however my last post reads more provocatively than intended.  The point I'm trying to make is that the measurement system we use is a part of the culture not unlike language.

You say no one is trying to tell me to DO anything but read back through the posts and notice how many of them assume that if the US "converts" the difficulties like following recipes written using imperial measurements will be somehow relieved.  What is going to provide that relief?  It would be useful to explore _exactly_ what various posters mean by "metric conversion."

It has been said, over and over again, that the metric system is easier to learn, remember and calculate with.  I don't think anybody is arguing that point, however it does not logically follow that the imperial system should therefore be abandoned in favor of metric.  If it did then all the arguments used in this thread would logically necessitate selecting the easiest language to learn and use, in order to mandate *it* universally.


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## GB (Jul 17, 2007)

skilletlicker said:
			
		

> If it did then all the arguments used in this thread would logically necessitate selecting the easiest language to learn and use, in order to mandate *it* universally.


I completely disagree. Language is a different animal altogether, not to mention that there are hundreds and hundreds of different one. Not just two, one of which is used by 3 countries and one used by everyone else.

Some languages have words or ideas that do not exist in other languages. That is not true with units of measure.


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## mitmondol (Jul 17, 2007)

Well....
I am sorry if my posts did offend anybody.
I do believe though that the USA should use metric.
As the comperison to language?
Most of the world uses English as the common language.
Even in EU, where (for the most part) German used to be the common language, the younger generations learned English instead.

It is more logical to use for many reasons, so people of the world adapted, or should I say "converted" to it.
And yes, I am saying that with the metric system a whole lot of things would be easier .
And I also think that the imperial system was working for a long time, I understand that tradition counts for a lot of things, but I also think if something better is available we should let go of the old.

This is not mean or rude,and it could even be the other way around.
The world could've  adopted the imperial system.
But it didn't.
So, without argueing which is better, wouldn't it make more sence for the US to hop on the wagon?


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## mitmondol (Jul 17, 2007)

skilletlicker said:
			
		

> I can speak metric, I just don't want to.



Care to tell why not?


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## bullseye (Jul 17, 2007)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> The controversy continues. So do we or don't we convert? Vote and state your reasons.



For me, it's no big deal.  I can convert to metric for older recipes or other specs.  I find the metric system easier to deal with, expecially when scaling up or down, but I can handle it either way.  Perhaps this is because I've spent most of my life in the automotive industry, where conversion has been a way of life for many years.  Ideologically, I can find myself on either side of the argument, I guess.  Do it or don't, I don't care; just tell me what's been decided and then stick with it.


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## skilletlicker (Jul 17, 2007)

GB said:
			
		

> I completely disagree.


 Excellent.  Why don't we figure out exactly what we disagree about.  My preference for inches over centimeters is a reflection of a wider societal and cultural preference with which I grew up and am now comfortable with.  It also is the unit of measurement used in recipes shared formally (cookbooks) and informally (how Mom did it).  Surely you can't argue that this isn't at least a small part of the "culture" most of us grew up with.


			
				GB said:
			
		

> Language is a different animal altogether


 The difference is a matter of degree not of kind.  Language is certainly a much larger part of the culture but unless you disagree with my point above, both are parts.


			
				GB said:
			
		

> not to mention that there are hundreds and hundreds of different one. Not just two


 Do you have any doubt that there are not _at least_ "hundreds and hundreds" of different standards of measurement?  I'm not widely travelled so I will rely here on what I assume to be self-evident assumtions.  Aborginal Australians, South American Indians, Eskimos, Sub-Saharan Africans, Vikings, Arabs, Persians, Indians, Chinese, etc., etc. all developed standards of measurement.  Is it remotely possible that all but two of these systems are dead or exinct.  Or is it just much more likely that only the imperial system warrants condemnation.


			
				GB said:
			
		

> one of which is used by 3 countries and one used by everyone else


I feel like the only one who notices that the metric system IS used in the US.  If you buy foodstuffs here look at any bag or can in your pantry.  There is also a chronology of our conversion here.  GB, your comment also and again overlooks cultures that in addition to their use of the metric system use more traditional measurements in many of their homes and businesses.  The Chinese might be one example.


			
				GB said:
			
		

> Some languages have words or ideas that do not exist in other languages. That is not true with units of measure.


 This is just patently untrue.  A becquerel is a unit of radiation measurment that obviously has not always existed as a concept in any system.

So GB, my hunch is that all we really disagree on is the the precise meaning of metrication.


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## skilletlicker (Jul 18, 2007)

mitmondol said:
			
		

> Well....
> I am sorry if my posts did offend anybody.


 As I said earlier I was not the least offended.  And I apologize if it seemed that I was.


			
				mitmondol said:
			
		

> I do believe though that the USA should use metric.
> As the comperison to language?
> Most of the world uses English as the common language.
> Even in EU, where (for the most part) German used to be the common language, [highlight]the younger generations learned English instead[/highlight].


 Did you really mean instead or in addition.



			
				mitmondol said:
			
		

> It is more logical to use for many reasons, so people of the world adapted, or should I say "converted" to it.
> And yes, I am saying that with the metric system a whole lot of things would be easier .
> And I also think that the imperial system was working for a long time, I understand that tradition counts for a lot of things, but I also think [highlight]if something better is available we should let go of the old[/highlight].


 Why is it important to you that I "let go of it?"  Why isn't it good enough to be fluent with both systems?



			
				mitmondol said:
			
		

> This is not mean or rude,and it could even be the other way around.
> The world could've  adopted the imperial system.
> But it didn't.
> So, without argueing which is better, wouldn't it make more sence for the US to hop on the wagon?


 Here is the explicit insistence on either/or.  I prefer fluency with both.


			
				mitmondol said:
			
		

> skilletlicker said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 More accurately, I just don't want to be told to.


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## mitmondol (Jul 18, 2007)

skilletlicker said:
			
		

> As I said earlier I was not the least offended.  And I apologize if it seemed that I was.
> Did you really mean instead or in addition.
> 
> Why is it important to you that I "let go of it?"  Why isn't it good enough to be fluent with both systems?
> ...




Yes, it is good to be fluent in both.
You just don't want to be told?
Why not?
Most of the world was told.
Most of the world adapted English because they had to, either being told or realizing to be better off.
How many other things were you told you had to accept? And you did. No choice.
I have a feeling you just like to be philosofical about the whole thing.


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## skilletlicker (Jul 18, 2007)

mitmondol said:
			
		

> Yes, it is good to be fluent in both.
> You just don't want to be told?
> Why not?
> Most of the world was told.
> ...


Thanks for making your position clear.


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## mitmondol (Jul 18, 2007)

skilletlicker said:
			
		

> Thanks for making your position clear.



Still friends right?


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## skilletlicker (Jul 18, 2007)

mitmondol said:
			
		

> Still friends right?


 Of course!  Agreeable disagreement among family members demonstrates openness, honesty and respect.


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## mitmondol (Jul 18, 2007)




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## expatgirl (Jul 18, 2007)

Glad to hear that everyone is friends again and what interesting tete a tetes!  If I may add one thing to this thread that might be helpful for those of you being posted to a country with a metric system or those of you going to a country with the American system and you're not familiar with either, do invest in a good quality electronic scale that converts kg/lb (which also includes for smaller amounts grams/oz).  I have found it INVALUABLE as I have lived in 3 different countries all with metric systems.  I acquired mine about 10 years ago and it's made by Salter.  I have bought meat in kg and placed it on the scale and it's pretty accurate to what's been marked on the package as well as in pounds, etc.  I measure butter on it all the time as butter here is sold by grams and not by sticks.  REally makes a difference if you're baking.  The good quality ones are not cheap but they are worth every penny, Euro, etc., especially if you cook a lot.  Also invest in measuring cups that are both marked in metric and non. Really does help.


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## chrissian (Jul 18, 2007)

NZ went metric in July 1967, and after that I could do the math! So much easier, tho we still talk the newborn baby's weight in pounds and ounces. We can visualise that!  If a date for changeover is set, followed up by plenty of advertising, the kids are well taught, and businesses given time to change systems, then it will work.  People quickly get used to the new when they use it daily. Look at how we can all use the internet now, when a few years ago, how many of us had a PC? Heck, my mum has just got her 1st computer at 87, and she's keen to learn new stuff.


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## Claire (Jul 18, 2007)

When I tell my friends that my favorite part of travel is going to a grocery store and buying some cheese, bread, wine, etc, for a picnic, they ask me how I deal with metric conversions.  I DON'T.  I don't even try.  I go find something that is being sold that looks about the right size, then start to get used to it.  If you drink at all, you drink metrically (750 ml).  I'm not very mathematically minded at all, so I don't attempt conversions at all.  You don't need to.  It isn't like money where you have no choice (most of us travel on a budget and have to convert in our heads), but when it comes to metric, just go for it.  Everyone would be used to it within months, and the next generation will wonder why we were using a system so difficult (it is a lot easier to divide and multiply by ten rather than by 12 or 16 or ....).


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## Alix (Jul 18, 2007)

Skilletlicker, I apologize if I offended you. Thank you for clarifying your post for me. I was worried that you were upset. 

I must comment on one small point though. You said something about many measurement systems in other countries. The reason this thread got posted at all was in response to a thread I started. I heard on the news that the ENTIRE WORLD uses metric except for the US, and two other small countries (whose names escape me at the moment). GB's post about the two systems is therefore correct. 

And I completely understand not wanting to be forced to do something (like change measurement systems). You should have heard my Dad complain about it when the change happened here. He was very loud about it. BUT, only for a short time. And in fact, it was he who taught me how to convert easily between systems. Smart guy.


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## skilletlicker (Jul 18, 2007)

Alix said:
			
		

> Skilletlicker, I apologize if I offended you. Thank you for clarifying your post for me. I was worried that you were upset.


  There is no apolgy called for and I have not been offended.  Thank you for your concern.  In an earlier post you said, "I have followed this quite closely to be sure this thread stayed on track.  People have strong opinions one way or another."  You are wise to follow it as it does have the potential to become derailed.  


			
				Alix said:
			
		

> I must comment on one small point though. You said something about many measurement systems in other countries. The reason this thread got posted at all was in response to a thread I started. I heard on the news that the ENTIRE WORLD uses metric except for the US, and two other small countries (whose names escape me at the moment).



I previousely posted this link to a chronology of legal and regulatory adoption of the metric system in the USA.  It seems to me that, ". . .the ENTIRE WORLD uses metric except for the US, . . ." is just flat out wrong.  What am I missing?


			
				Alix said:
			
		

> GB's post about the two systems is therefore correct.


 As for GB's assertion that there are "just two" systems of measurement; here are a few more: 
*Historical systems of measurement*

_Main article: History of measurement_
  Prior to the widespread adoption of the metric system many different systems of official measurement had been in use, many of these remain today, at least in part, in traditional or customary use. Many of these were related to some extent or other. Often they were based on the dimensions of the human body. When the world turned to trade between city-states better systems were needed to enable that mercantile activity. Overtime, the evolution continued as transportation continued to shrink the world, and so what was once an artifact of a pocket kingdom matured into something that was at least workable. Despite the growth and adoption of modern systems like SI around the world for business and governance, [highlight]such _*customary systems*_ are still commonly used in day to day life for everyday ordinary household tasks around the world, most notably, in cooking and cookbooks.[/highlight]
 Throughout the history of measurement, many of the units that have been used in Europe and around the Mediterranean are variations on older systems originating in the ancient Near East.

*Middle Eastern systems of measurements*
Arabic
Egyptian
Hebrew
Maltese
Mesopotamian
Persian
*South Asian systems of measurement*
Harappan
Hindu
*East Asian systems of measurement*
Chinese
Japanese
*Greco-Roman systems of measurement*
Greek
Roman
*Medieval European measurements*

 Medieval European systems of measurement evolved during the Middle Ages (or European Dark Ages) due to the agriculture-intensive way of life. These systems may also be referred to as _feudal measurement systems_. The measurements were approximate and variable. The measures can be categorized by ever expanding commercial, political and religious spheres of influence.

* Eastern European*

 In Eastern Europe traditional standards of measure were predominantly of Greek origin
Polish system
Romanian system
Russian system
Tatar system
*Western and Northern European*

 In Western and Northern Europe traditional standards of measure were predominantly of Roman origin:
Danish system
Dutch system
English system
Finnish system
French system
German system
Norwegian system
Scottish system
Spanish system
Swedish system
*Other historical systems of measurement*
Pegu



			
				Alix said:
			
		

> And I completely understand not wanting to be forced to do something (like change measurement systems). You should have heard my Dad complain about it when the change happened here. He was very loud about it. BUT, only for a short time. And in fact, it was he who taught me how to convert easily between systems. Smart guy.


 Your Dad sounds like a great guy Alix, and I'm sure that converting completely would be easy.  I just can't understand why force would even be considered an option.


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## GB (Jul 18, 2007)

I do not have time to go through your entire post, but I will speak to one piece. You listed "Hebrew" as one that uses a different until of measurement. While there are still instances of ancient systems that still exist, they are not in common usage as your article says they are (and I bet the same is true for all those other links). I work for an Israeli company and I can tell you that business is done in metric. If you ask an Israeli what unit of measurement they use they will tell you Metric every time.


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## Andy M. (Jul 18, 2007)

skilletlicker, thanks for the HISTORICAL perspective. However, I don't think it's relevant to the current discussion. I believe we re talking about a country's current "official" system.


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## skilletlicker (Jul 18, 2007)

GB said:
			
		

> I do not have time to go through your entire post, but I will speak to one piece. You listed "Hebrew" as one that uses a different until of measurement. While there are still instances of ancient systems that still exist, they are not in common usage as your article says they are (and I bet the same is true for all those other links). I work for an Israeli company and I can tell you that business is done in metric. If you ask an Israeli what unit of measurement they use they will tell you Metric every time.


 Thanks for taking the time to reply GB.  The article claim doesn't claim that all of the systems listed are in common use.  Some of them are but I seriously doubt that any are used by multi-national companies.  The point was to prove that there are more than "just two" systems.
By the way, I'm a little saddened by the notion that there is not one single guy left in the whole world who still uses old Noah's cubit.


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## mudbug (Jul 18, 2007)

skillet, I think Bill Cosby was the last guy to use it - in his routine about Noah.
thanks for the laugh!
and didn't we here in the US used to use something called a gill?  I think it's a liquid measure.


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## GB (Jul 18, 2007)

Like i said, I do not have time to go though the whole post (I am at work after all), but your post did say this 





			
				skilletlicker said:
			
		

> such customary systems are still commonly used in day to day life for everyday ordinary household tasks around the world, most notably, in cooking and cookbooks.



You even bolded it and put it in red.


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## skilletlicker (Jul 18, 2007)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> skilletlicker, thanks for the HISTORICAL perspective. However, I don't think it's relevant to the current discussion. I believe we re talking about a country's current "official" system.


 You're welcome Andy.
The Metric Conversion Act of 1975  "designated the metric system as the preferred system of weights and measures for US trade and commerce, and directed federal agencies to convert to the metric system, to the extent feasible, including the use of metric in construction of federal facilities."  That pretty much settled the question of the US "official" system then, didn't it?


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## Caine (Jul 18, 2007)

If God wanted us to use the metric system, there would have only been 10 apostles!


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## Andy M. (Jul 18, 2007)

Caine said:
			
		

> If God wanted us to use the metric system, there would have only been 10 apostles!


 
Instead, he gave us 10 fingers and 10 toes!


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## keltin (Jul 18, 2007)

Andy M. said:
			
		

> Instead, he gave us 10 fingers and 10 toes!


 
LOL! Nice come back!  

Personally, I can deal with either one, but I’d rather stick with the US system since I grew up with it and can easily “picture” what an inch is, a gallon is, etc without having to stop and convert it. Granted, if we switched, I’d eventually be able to “picture” a metric equivalent after some repeated use........


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## mitch_the_chef (Jul 18, 2007)

The simple fact of the matter is that the metric system is much more easy to learn as opposed to the imperial system. I dont know for the life of me how many feet are in a mile. But I know the prefix method, and i know that it applies to every measurement I have had to use so far.


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## elaine l (Sep 15, 2007)

I dislike change.....and I agree with Keltin that I grew up with it and that picture of an inch, gallon etc. is etched in my brain.   I haven't even adjusted to pumping my own gas...down to one gas station here in town.


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## strawberry (Sep 16, 2007)

LOL... well I made the adjustment to pumping my own gas after I moved.  I have to say that I think it had to be a whole lot easier than converting to metric.  I mean, I know we should and eventually will... but it doesn't mean that I'll go willingly.


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## Green Lady (Sep 16, 2007)

How did the imperial system get started?  Didn't the founding fathers come from England?  Wasn't metric used there?  Why didn't they carry over the metric system here then?  Was it just a way to stress their independence from England?  Hmmm, there's a history lesson in here somewhere.......


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## Andy M. (Sep 16, 2007)

The imperial system started in England.  The distance from a certain king's nose to the tips of his fingers was a yard and other bizarre stuff like that.  That came to America witht he first settlers and has stuck.


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## Green Lady (Sep 16, 2007)

Andy M. said:


> The imperial system started in England.  The distance from a certain king's nose to the tips of his fingers was a yard and other bizarre stuff like that.  That came to America witht he first settlers and has stuck.



Oh, so that's why it's called the imperial system.


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