# Cliff gets a WSM for Christmas



## Cliff H. (Jan 15, 2007)

Thanks MOM.

My wife is glad its here so now maybe I will shutup about it.  





My only question now is :

Where do I drill the first hole?


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## Cliff H. (Jan 15, 2007)

brian j said:
			
		

> [quote="Cliff H.":1kduyvjn]My only question now is :
> 
> Where do I drill the first hole?


in the wife.   [/quote:1kduyvjn]

Where do I drill the second hole?


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## Cliff H. (Jan 15, 2007)

Thanks Brian.  I got a lot of mods to do.  I am already thinking of a retrofit for that door.


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## cflatt (Jan 15, 2007)

guru eyelets are a nice add on as well


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## Finney (Jan 15, 2007)

Congrats on the new bullet!!!!!


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## Puff1 (Jan 15, 2007)

Alright bud!! Congrats!
Instead of drillin' and fittin'....cook something  
Who's the "bullet head" now   [smilie=a_bravo.gif]


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## WalterSC (Jan 15, 2007)

brian j said:
			
		

> for a thermometer?  i put my opposite the vent.



Just what I was thinking about for my 2 WSM`s thanks for the pic and the idea!!


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## BigGQ (Jan 15, 2007)

Puff said:
			
		

> *Instead of drillin' and fittin'....cook something*



And take a pic or two while your at it!

Oh yeah...congrats on the WSM.


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## Helen_Paradise (Jan 15, 2007)

Congrats!


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## Cliff H. (Jan 15, 2007)

Thanks, Now I have to change my avatar.


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## Nick Prochilo (Jan 16, 2007)

Cliff, I just stick my thermometer in the top vent. It will be wide open the entire cook anyway! Like was mentioned earlier, get the guru eyelets!


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## john pen (Jan 16, 2007)

Congrats.the only mod Ive done to mine was to weld the charcol basket o the grate..cook away !!!!


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## LarryWolfe (Jan 16, 2007)

Cliff cook with it a couple times before you go making modifications.  There aren't really any mods necessary in my opinion.  If you have a probe type thermometer, there's no reason to drill a whole and mount a thermometer either, just do as Nick suggested and hang it through the top vent.  Guru eyelets are a good mod to get, just don't let Rempe tell you how to install them!    If you plan on using lump just get another charcoal grate and if you plan on using water get the Brinkmann charcoal pan to replace as the water pan.  But if you plan on using sand, the stock pan will work fine!


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## john pen (Jan 16, 2007)

Larry, whats the advantage of the Brinkman pan ?


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## LarryWolfe (Jan 16, 2007)

john pen said:
			
		

> Larry, whats the advantage of the Brinkman pan ?



It holds twice the amount of water as the Weber pan does, which will mean less refills if using water.


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## john pen (Jan 16, 2007)

Gotcha...


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## wittdog (Jan 16, 2007)

congrats Cliff...I like having a therm in the dome..just my.02


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## Bill The Grill Guy (Jan 16, 2007)

wittdog said:
			
		

> congrats Cliff...I like having a therm in the dome..just my.02



I am getting ready to drill my first hole today.  Thanks for the pics brian.


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## BigGQ (Jan 16, 2007)

I use the $10 Weber therm through a cork in the top vent. (Cappy invented it) Never had any problems. Won a contest that way. Larry has seen it.  Plus it makes it easy to calibrate the therm also. No tools needed. 

Finney had an installed therm go bad at the same comp. He was using Mavericks anyway so it did not hurt him any, I don't think.  Then again, Finney doesn’t need any help. He knows way too much as it is now.  :twisted:

I agree with Larry, Nick and Puff, cook with it a couple of times before making any mods. It does quite well right out the box. 

Just my .02


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## Bill The Grill Guy (Jan 16, 2007)

BigGQ said:
			
		

> I use the $10 Weber therm through a cork in the top vent. (Cappy invented it) Never had any problems. Won a contest that way. Larry has seen it.  Plus it makes it easy to calibrate the therm also. No tools needed.
> 
> Finney had an installed therm go bad at the same comp. He was using Mavericks anyway so it did not hurt him any, I don't think.  Then again, Finney doesn’t need any help. He knows way too much as it is now.  :twisted:
> 
> ...



Well see, thats what I have now.  Larry seems to think that I am changing the flow by blocking 1/3 of the vent.  Anyone else want to weigh in?


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## DaleP (Jan 16, 2007)

Larry is right. If you have 3 holes and block one, 1/3 is blocked! :P 

I use a weber el cheapo therm that is placed through a toggle bolt "nut" that allows smoke to go through every hole in the top vent. Did that with my first WSM cook just because it kept the dial from smothering the hole. Thought about the cork deal, but like Larry I didnt want the air flow to stop. 

I bought that cheap thermometer about 2 years ago and it reads dead on.


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## Helen_Paradise (Jan 16, 2007)

Bill The Grill Guy said:
			
		

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Argh...nevermind. I don't think 1/3 makes a difference.


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## LarryWolfe (Jan 16, 2007)

Bill The Grill Guy said:
			
		

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If blocking 1/3 didn't make a difference, Weber would have made 2 holes versus 3.  If you close the exhaust on your offset 1/3 aren't you changing the airflow????  So if you block one of the three holes on the dome of the WSM aren't you effecting the airflow??  What do I know???  Just trying to help, not start a debate.


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## LarryWolfe (Jan 16, 2007)

brian j said:
			
		

> *blocking a third doesn't matter when cooking low*, heck i usually shut the top vent anywhere from a third to half anyway, but it'll make a big difference if you're cooking hot.  use a cloths pin of you want to drop in a therm and not block the vent.



Sure it does.  Without proper airflow your fire will smolder vs. burn, thus increasing your chances of soot.  I am of course talking about cooking without a Guru or Stoker.


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## Greg Rempe (Jan 16, 2007)

I have read that blocking one of the holes on the top will not drastically affect the overall performance.


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## Captain Morgan (Jan 16, 2007)

I'm with you fellers.

The simple solution is to just dangle a probe through a top vent, 
it won't block hardly any exhaust  at all.


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## Bruce B (Jan 16, 2007)

Bill The Grill Guy said:
			
		

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Bill; if you have a fire in a room and two of the windows in the room are open and the third is closed, will not the smoke still exit the room through the two open windows. Will the closed third window have any affect on the fire? If you open the third window will that affect the fire?

Just asking, I have cooked both ways, blocking one-third with a therm through a cork and by just dropping the the probe into vent hole and can't really tell or notice ANY appreciable difference.


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## Bill The Grill Guy (Jan 16, 2007)

If you put it that way, yes.  The third window will make a drastic difference in the fire.  The smoke will exit faster allowing more oxigen to the fire.  There for, Larry is right.  I will drill a hole.


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## Greg Rempe (Jan 16, 2007)

If my house is on fire and I open all of the windows 1/3 of the way, will the fire burn at 225*??


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## LarryWolfe (Jan 16, 2007)

Bill The Grill Guy said:
			
		

> If you put it that way, yes.  The third window will make a drastic difference in the fire.  The smoke will exit faster allowing more oxigen to the fire.  There for, Larry is right.    *I will drill a hole*.



[smilie=a_doh.gif]


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## Nick Prochilo (Jan 16, 2007)

Just like cappy said! I don't block the entire hole on the vent by inserting a thermometer there!


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## Nick Prochilo (Jan 16, 2007)

If you stick a 1/4" probe in a 1" hole are you blocking 1/3 of your exhaust of 3 holes?


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## LarryWolfe (Jan 16, 2007)

Nick Prochilo said:
			
		

> If you stick a 1/4" probe in a 1" hole are you blocking 1/3 of your exhaust of 3 holes?



Pot stirrer!


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## Bruce B (Jan 16, 2007)

Nick Prochilo said:
			
		

> If you stick a 1/4" probe in a 1" hole are you blocking 1/3 of your exhaust of 3 holes?



You're blocking 25% of one 1" hole and 1/4" of 3 1" holes which total 3" so...
you're blocking about 8.33% of your total of 3 inches of exit hole. Hopefully, that will clear things up for you Nick.


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## Greg Rempe (Jan 16, 2007)

Nick is a brick layer not a mathmatician...


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## Bill The Grill Guy (Jan 16, 2007)

Bruce B said:
			
		

> [quote="Nick Prochilo":9uz38081]If you stick a 1/4" probe in a 1" hole are you blocking 1/3 of your exhaust of 3 holes?



You're blocking 25% of one 1" hole and 1/4" of 3 1" holes which total 3" so...
you're blocking about 8.33% of your total of 3 inches of exit hole. Hopefully, that will clear things up for you Nick.

 [/quote:9uz38081]

Not to be a "pot stirrer" but the cork takes up one hole.  If you have three 1" holes and you fill one with a cork then you have 2/3 left for venting.


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## Unity (Jan 16, 2007)

How about if you foil the thermometer probe?  :scratch 

--John  8)


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## wittdog (Jan 16, 2007)

BBQ people will argue about anything...............


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## Smokey_Joe (Jan 16, 2007)

Bill The Grill Guy said:
			
		

> [quote="Bruce B":pyts67cv][quote="Nick Prochilo":pyts67cv]If you stick a 1/4" probe in a 1" hole are you blocking 1/3 of your exhaust of 3 holes?



You're blocking 25% of one 1" hole and 1/4" of 3 1" holes which total 3" so...
you're blocking about 8.33% of your total of 3 inches of exit hole. Hopefully, that will clear things up for you Nick.

 [/quote:pyts67cv]

Not to be a "pot stirrer" but the cork takes up one hole.  If you have three 1" holes and you fill one with a cork then you have 2/3 left for venting.[/quote:pyts67cv]

But what if you never open the vent 100%?..what if you only run it with it opened 2/3 to begin with?...would the blocked one be any different?

heh heh heh ...another "pot stirrer" heard from

Obviously though......simple fact... fire needs oxygen to burn... the vent gives oxygen.

The question here to me is :.....at what vent setting/% opened  does the cooker reach it's highest temp?

If it reaches highest temp inside with the vent only open 2/3 or less...then blocking the other 1/3 wouldn't make any difference.... if it takes more then that 2/3's to hit it's highest temperature...then obviously it shouldn't be blocked.

These manufacturers don't just hold up their thumb and go... "errrrr.....ummmmmm...Hey Wilbur...why don'tcha come on over here and whack a hole in this lid about yay big"... Tons of money is spent in research and development to put the correct "everything" into design.... 

I can probably GUARANTEE that closing 1/3 the air to the fire chamber WILL RESULT IN 1/3 THE LOSS IN AVAILABLE HEAT... seems only common sense.

there!.... pot sufficiently stirred!


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## ScottyDaQ (Jan 16, 2007)

wittdog said:
			
		

> BBQ people will argue about anything...............


I learned long ago not to argue about putting your probe into a hole.


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## wittdog (Jan 16, 2007)

ScottyDaQ said:
			
		

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 :ROFL


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## Helen_Paradise (Jan 16, 2007)

wittdog said:
			
		

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*shakes head*


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## Finney (Jan 16, 2007)

Bruce B said:
			
		

> [quote="Nick Prochilo":3l34nvc0]If you stick a 1/4" probe in a 1" hole are you blocking 1/3 of your exhaust of 3 holes?



You're blocking 25% of one 1" hole and 1/4" of 3 1" holes which total 3" so...
you're blocking about 8.33% of your total of 3 inches of exit hole. Hopefully, that will clear things up for you Nick.

 [/quote:3l34nvc0]

Bruce's thoughts are right, but his math is wrong. 
A 1" dia hole has an area of 506.70748 sqmm
3x that is 1520.12244 sqmm
a 1/4" dia probe has a cross sectional area of 82.16991
divide 82.16991 by 1520.12244 to get 0.054054797059636853989208921881319
multiply 0.054054797059636853989208921881319 by 100
and the answer is that a 1/4" dia probe blocks 5.4% of the opening created by the three 1" dia holes.

Anybody need anything else? :roll:


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## Puff1 (Jan 16, 2007)

Finney said:
			
		

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Bruce's thoughts are right, but his math is wrong. 
A 1" dia hole has an area of 506.70748 sqmm
3x that is 1520.12244 sqmm
a 1/4" dia probe has a cross sectional area of 82.16991
divide 82.16991 by 1520.12244 to get 0.054054797059636853989208921881319
multiply 0.054054797059636853989208921881319 by 100
and the answer is that a 1/4" dia probe blocks 5.4% of the opening created by the three 1" dia holes.

Anybody need anything else? :roll:[/quote:74pmogx1]
A couple of aspirin


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## Bill The Grill Guy (Jan 16, 2007)

okay, I settled it.  drilled a hole and stuck a therm in it.  Now its done.


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## Larry D. (Jan 16, 2007)

Finney said:
			
		

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Bruce's thoughts are right, but his math is wrong. 
A 1" dia hole has an area of 506.70748 sqmm
3x that is 1520.12244 sqmm
a 1/4" dia probe has a cross sectional area of 82.16991
divide 82.16991 by 1520.12244 to get 0.054054797059636853989208921881319
multiply 0.054054797059636853989208921881319 by 100
and the answer is that a 1/4" dia probe blocks 5.4% of the opening created by the three 1" dia holes.

Anybody need anything else? :roll:[/quote:35kqflbj]

Finney's math is complicated, but his answer is wrong.*
The area of a circle varies directly as the square of its diameter.  So, you can just leave out the pi's from the equations and compare the squares of the diameters.  For example, a one-inch circle has an area 4 times that of a 1/2 inch circle.  Or, 16 times the area of a 1/4 inch circle.  For the one inch diameter hole:  d^2 = 1.
For the 1/4 inch probe, d^2 = 0.25 x 0.25 = 0.0625, or 6.25% of the area of the one inch hole. And, since we have 3 of those holes, 6.25% divided by 3 equals 2.08%    So, your 1/4 inch probe only blocks 2.08% of the vent area of the three one-inch holes.

 [smilie=a_tongue.gif]

*Area of 1/4 inch circle:  0.25 inch x 25.4 mm/inch = 6.35 mm dia. or 3.175 mm radius (roughly).  A = pi x r^2  or 3.14etc x (3.175) x (3.175) = 31.669 sq. mm.,  not 82.1699    And 31.669 divided by 1520.122 = 0.0208


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## Puff1 (Jan 16, 2007)

O ' my holy God let it stop!


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## Unity (Jan 16, 2007)

Bill The Grill Guy said:
			
		

> okay, I settled it.  drilled a hole and stuck a therm in it.  Now its done.


How'd you start the hole without (a) centerpunching and chipping more enamel than intended, or (b) skating and skitching all over the lid with a runaway drill? 

--John  8)
(You see, I've thought about it, but haven't done it yet. :roll: )


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## ScottyDaQ (Jan 16, 2007)

Finney, you gunna put up wit that?....whatever it was. [smilie=a_hrm.gif]  [smilie=a_whyme.gif]


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## DaleP (Jan 16, 2007)

You put it on the wrong side!  
But that will do. Nice job.


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## BigGQ (Jan 16, 2007)

Well I'll keep it simple...you adjust to your working environment.

Bill, with all respect. I was a fireman for 5 1/2 years. Fire requires 3 elements to exist; heat, oxygen and fuel. When a house in on fire you cut a hole in a roof to control, hopefully contain a fire to a specific area, therefore giving the fire more oxygen from above and creating a draft. The fire then burns towards the hole in the roof; heat rises and the fuel (the house) last longer. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Is there an optimum measurement to what size the hole in the roof should be based on the burning area? Maybe there is. I'm not sure what that formula is (Finney probably knows  :twisted: ) but what I do know is you do what you can with what you have to work with at the time. Just like cooking in comps.

My point is, for me, my WSM worked great right out the box with no mods. That’s all. Do what you think works best for you. It’s your cooker. You have the right to do what you want with you WSM. Drill, cut, rivet, screw and weld away. Its not the cooker, it is the cook that wins.


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## Larry D. (Jan 16, 2007)

Puff said:
			
		

> O ' my holy God let it stop!



Hell, no!  I demand satisfaction.  Slide rules at 100 paces!!  [smilie=a_furious.gif]


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## Puff1 (Jan 16, 2007)

Larry D. said:
			
		

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ROFL!


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## BigGQ (Jan 16, 2007)

Unity said:
			
		

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A couple layers of masking tape will help keep the bit from wandering. It is easy to do, just don't see a need to do it to mine.

Bill, install looks good. Good luck with the new mod.


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## Finney (Jan 16, 2007)

Larry D. said:
			
		

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Bruce's thoughts are right, but his math is wrong. 
A 1" dia hole has an area of 506.70748 sqmm
3x that is 1520.12244 sqmm
a 1/4" dia probe has a cross sectional area of 82.16991
divide 82.16991 by 1520.12244 to get 0.054054797059636853989208921881319
multiply 0.054054797059636853989208921881319 by 100
and the answer is that a 1/4" dia probe blocks 5.4% of the opening created by the three 1" dia holes.

Anybody need anything else? :roll:[/quote:3fdb6bc9]

Finney's math is complicated, but his answer is wrong.*
The area of a circle varies directly as the square of its diameter.  So, you can just leave out the pi's from the equations and compare the squares of the diameters.  For example, a one-inch circle has an area 4 times that of a 1/2 inch circle.  Or, 16 times the area of a 1/4 inch circle.  For the one inch diameter hole:  d^2 = 1.
For the 1/4 inch probe, d^2 = 0.25 x 0.25 = 0.0625, or 6.25% of the area of the one inch hole. And, since we have 3 of those holes, 6.25% divided by 3 equals 2.08%    So, your 1/4 inch probe only blocks 2.08% of the vent area of the three one-inch holes.

 [smilie=a_tongue.gif]

*Area of 1/4 inch circle:  0.25 inch x 25.4 mm/inch = 6.35 mm dia. or 3.165 mm radius (roughly).  A = pi x r^2  or 3.14etc x (3.165) x (3.165) = 31.669 sq. mm.,  not 82.1699    And 31.669 divided by 1520.122 = 0.0208[/quote:3fdb6bc9]

Larry is correct... I don't know where I came up with the 82.1699  :?   Stupid me....
Changing that number to 31.66922 it works out to 2.0833334977937698229097913981192%


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## Bill The Grill Guy (Jan 16, 2007)

Unity said:
			
		

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I used 4 layers of masking tape.  Started with a very small drill bit and slowley worked my way up to the right size hole.  You gotta take it SLOW.


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## Smokey_Joe (Jan 16, 2007)

Finney said:
			
		

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Finney's math is complicated, but his answer is wrong.*
The area of a circle varies directly as the square of its diameter.  So, you can just leave out the pi's from the equations and compare the squares of the diameters.  For example, a one-inch circle has an area 4 times that of a 1/2 inch circle.  Or, 16 times the area of a 1/4 inch circle.  For the one inch diameter hole:  d^2 = 1.
For the 1/4 inch probe, d^2 = 0.25 x 0.25 = 0.0625, or 6.25% of the area of the one inch hole. And, since we have 3 of those holes, 6.25% divided by 3 equals 2.08%    So, your 1/4 inch probe only blocks 2.08% of the vent area of the three one-inch holes.

 [smilie=a_tongue.gif]

*Area of 1/4 inch circle:  0.25 inch x 25.4 mm/inch = 6.35 mm dia. or 3.165 mm radius (roughly).  A = pi x r^2  or 3.14etc x (3.165) x (3.165) = 31.669 sq. mm.,  not 82.1699    And 31.669 divided by 1520.122 = 0.0208[/quote:289z96hu]

Larry is correct... I don't know where I came up with the 82.1699  :?   Stupid me....
Changing that number to 31.66922 it works out to 2.0833334977937698229097913981192%[/quote:289z96hu]

I HATE to throw a wrench  in all your equations and figuring.... BUT  BUT BUT BUT.......

You have figured the hole for a FLAT SURFACE...now you have to go back and figure it with the degree of curvature in the lid and the vortex factor of which the air rolls against said opening size of hole made....etc....

heh heh heh


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## ScottyDaQ (Jan 16, 2007)

Puff, common...what is it REALLY?


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## Finney (Jan 16, 2007)

Smokey_Joe said:
			
		

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Finney's math is complicated, but his answer is wrong.*
The area of a circle varies directly as the square of its diameter.  So, you can just leave out the pi's from the equations and compare the squares of the diameters.  For example, a one-inch circle has an area 4 times that of a 1/2 inch circle.  Or, 16 times the area of a 1/4 inch circle.  For the one inch diameter hole:  d^2 = 1.
For the 1/4 inch probe, d^2 = 0.25 x 0.25 = 0.0625, or 6.25% of the area of the one inch hole. And, since we have 3 of those holes, 6.25% divided by 3 equals 2.08%    So, your 1/4 inch probe only blocks 2.08% of the vent area of the three one-inch holes.

 [smilie=a_tongue.gif]

*Area of 1/4 inch circle:  0.25 inch x 25.4 mm/inch = 6.35 mm dia. or 3.165 mm radius (roughly).  A = pi x r^2  or 3.14etc x (3.165) x (3.165) = 31.669 sq. mm.,  not 82.1699    And 31.669 divided by 1520.122 = 0.0208[/quote:3moj4t57]

Larry is correct... I don't know where I came up with the 82.1699  :?   Stupid me....
Changing that number to 31.66922 it works out to 2.0833334977937698229097913981192%[/quote:3moj4t57]

I HATE to throw a wrench  in all your equations and figuring.... BUT  BUT BUT BUT.......

You have figured the hole for a FLAT SURFACE...now you have to go back and figure it with the degree of curvature in the lid and the vortex factor of which the air rolls against said opening size of hole made....etc....

heh heh heh[/quote:3moj4t57]

That's why Larry rounded off at the end.


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## Puff1 (Jan 16, 2007)

ScottyDaQ said:
			
		

> Puff, common...what is it REALLY?


It's a hole drilled in a brand new smoker  :roll:


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## Unity (Jan 16, 2007)

Bill The Grill Guy said:
			
		

> I used 4 layers of masking tape.  Started with a very small drill bit and slowley worked my way up to the right size hole.  You gotta take it SLOW.


You and BigGQ are smart guys.    I didn't think of the tape trick.   

--John  8) 
(I already have a fancy, threaded-mount thermometer with a 4-inch probe. I hesitate because I'm not sure I want to shrink the available space under the lid by 4 inches.)


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## Griff (Jan 16, 2007)

Larry D. said:
			
		

> Hell, no!  I demand satisfaction.  Slide rules at 100 paces!!  [smilie=a_furious.gif]



Larry, you gave your age away even knowing what a slide rule is.

Griff


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## Cliff H. (Jan 16, 2007)

Does the same probe at grate level method not apply to the WSM ?


If some one walks into a hardware store and ask for a 1/4" drill bit, what he is *really* wants is a 1/4" *hole*.


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## Nick Prochilo (Jan 16, 2007)

Okay, new problem, the vent holes are only 7/8", not 1" so you "F"ing morons can now start all over again!


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## Puff1 (Jan 16, 2007)

Thanks Nick........now we have Wednesday to look forward to!


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## john pen (Jan 17, 2007)

Hehehehehehe..He said vortex...


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## Finney (Jan 17, 2007)

Nick Prochilo said:
			
		

> Okay, new problem, the vent holes are only 7/8", not 1" so you "F"ing morons can now start all over again!



2.7%


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## Griff (Jan 18, 2007)

Unity said:
			
		

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John, wait until March when I come to visit. Mr. Beefeater and I would be pleased to help you drill holes in your WSM.

Griff


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## Finney (Jan 18, 2007)

brian j said:
			
		

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Oh... You mean you haven't gotten yours yet?


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## Unity (Jan 18, 2007)

brian j said:
			
		

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It's a rolling party, barbecue-touring through the Southeast. Got any ideas for must-stop destinations for us?   

--John  8) 
(BTW, social stops along the way are a great idea!)
(I'm hiding my drills.   :roll: )


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