# HELP - Turkey Cooking Q



## JapanHusker (Oct 12, 2005)

I hope someone can help me here...

The scenerio:

I live in Japan and am planning a Thanksgiving party for 12. I have decided to order a 16 - 18 lb turkey for the event.

The problem:

I have Japanese-sized oven (W13.5, D14.5, H9.5) that is basically an oven, microwave, grill combo. The elements are NOT exposed - they hide be hind the walls with small holes in front of them for the heat to enter from. Also, the bottom is ceramic to help conduct heat. I have grilled and baked many times with it, and it works great - pretty much like a conventional American oven (heat, time, etc.). HOWEVER, those were only cookies, bread, chicken parts, other small items.

The aforementioned TURKEY dimensions are: W10, L13, H7). As you can see, if I were to use a turkey bag, and set the turkey in a baking pan on the bottom of the oven, it would fit, with a few inches on top and each side to spare. 

However, will there be enough air space for heat to penetrate and cook the turkey evenly and within this century? Also, even though the elements are not exposed, will the turkey be too close and burn on the outside (perhaps using foil instead of the turkey bag would be better?)?

Will it take more time than a conventional oven? And, should the temp be the same, or does it need to be higher or lower? 

Any help would be greatly appreciated on this.

JH


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## texasgirl (Oct 12, 2005)

Do you have access to a fryer?
Fried turkey is so good.
I'm not sure that there would be enough room or enough heat for it to cook in the oven.
That's my opinion, so, let someone with a lot more experience with size and heat tell you better.


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## Constance (Oct 12, 2005)

You could try breaking the turkey down before you cook it, cutting it up the same way you do a chicken. You could also bone it out (except for the legs, thighs and wings)...That way it would take up less room.


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## Robo410 (Oct 12, 2005)

the only way to really find out the answers is to do a dry run...prepare a similar meal now and test what will or won't work ... waiting till the event to find out the answer is not a good plan.


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## Andy M. (Oct 12, 2005)

I'd be concerned, as you are, that it would be too close to the burners.  Also proper heat circulation may be a problem.

If you're up to it, consider deboning the turkey and making a turkey roll roast with stuffing in the middle.  I did this one year and it came out fantastic.  

It cooks very evenly and quickly and tastes like any other Thanksgiving turkey.  You have the bones ahead of time so you can make some stock for other dishes and for the gravy.  You also might be able to fit another dish or two into the oven.


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## JapanHusker (Oct 12, 2005)

*Thanks*

Thanks to all of you for your replies.

I decided to go with a little bit smaller turkey that will give me a little more space from the oven walls to work with.  Hope this works.  I am now in the process of deciding whether to have another side dish or two, or to have a couple pre-roasted chickens to replace the lost food volume.  

I guess I should start the turkey PLENTY ahead of time - just in case the oven takes longer to cook then normal, or I have to decrease the heat a bit to avoid burning.  Also, I believe I will wrap the entire bird in foil.  I know that it takes longer to cook, but heard that helps keep it from burning - as well as cooking it evenly with its natural juices.

One person who replied said to have a practice run.  Normally, I would.  But as mentioned, I live in Japan and the turkeys are imported and very expensive.  Also, there are only three of us (one being only 1 yr. old) in the family.  Come Thanksgiving, we'd probably still be eating the practice bird.  

Anyway, thanks to all and if you have any other advice, it would be much appreciated.

JH


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## Robo410 (Oct 12, 2005)

that would be I, and yes you might be, but at least turkey is high protein and low fat!  enjoy and good luck ..tell us how it works so we can advise future querries!


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## Tater Tot (Oct 13, 2005)

JapanHusker said:
			
		

> I hope someone can help
> 
> Will it take more time than a conventional oven? And, should the temp be the same, or does it need to be higher or lower?
> 
> ...


 
Im Not a Fan of it but try an eletric roaster...its like a metal crock pot for turkeys, roast, ect...


The tot


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## JapanHusker (Oct 13, 2005)

Unfortunately, cannot buy one of those here.  I am confined to using my Japanese sized oven.

Thanks anyway.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Oct 13, 2005)

There is but one thing you have to consider when cooking a turkey.  You need to make sure you bring the meat temperature to 165 degrees Farenheight.  It does not matter where the heat comes from.  It doesn't matter whether you use a very hot oven and fast cooking times, or a lower heat and longer cooking times.  But you must use a reliable meat thermometer that can be left in the turkey for the entire cooking period.  With your small oven, radient heat will do much of the cooking as convective heating won't be available du to the small air-space.  That being said, cook the bird in an open roasting pan, with aluminum foil placed on the exposed skin to reflect away some of the radiant heat.  This will prevent you from over-cooking the skin.  Figure about 12 minutes a pound with an oven temperature of 360 degrees Farenheight.  When the thermometer reads 140 degrees, remove foil and continue roasting until the thermometer reaches 155 degrees.  Then remove the bird from the oven and let rest for about 15 minutes.  This will allow the hotter, outer-meat to transmit its energy to the cooler inside.  The final temperature will be between 165 and 170.

You can salt and season the skin to your liking before roasting the turkey.  But don't add any sauces to the skin if they have sugar in the sauce.  The sugar will burn.

Try this method and you will get very moist and tender turkey.  To carve the bird, remove the breasts in whole pieces and slice sideways, against the meat grain.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## auntdot (Oct 13, 2005)

Julia Child had a recipe that I have used several times, but unfortunately cannot find it at the moment and it has been several years since I have made it.

Basically, you remove the legs, cut off the back, stuff the breast and cook the legs and breast together. You use the back and the rest of the stuff (necks, giblets, etc.) to make a stock for gravy.

The advantage for you is that you reduce a bigger bird to the size of the breast, making lots of room in the oven.

The other advantage is that you avoid the problem of the breast being overdone when the legs are cooked through.

Always came out very good.  Used to do the butchering myself, but suppose you could get your butcher to do it.

If I can find the recipe will post, maybe someone else has it.

It was one of my favorite ways to make the bird.  Just sort of forgot about it until your post.


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## JapanHusker (Oct 13, 2005)

Goodweed of the North,

Thank you very much for your reply. I am starting to gain confidence on this again. 

So, do you think I should marinate it in a bryne the night before, or just as is?

Also, should I stick with the smaller bird (and perhaps cook two separately) I decided to change to, to ensure the skin is as far away from the walls (where the heating elements hide behind) as possible, or can I go with the bigger bird (see dimensions of oven and turkey in original post) as long as I keep the foil on it to reflect some of the heat?

Thanks bunches,

JH


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## JapanHusker (Oct 13, 2005)

Ahhh, but again, I live in Japan and the turkeys are imported - i.e. I doubt a Japanese butcher would be willing to dissect a turkey I bring in off the street.

Nice advice tho...thanks.


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## Robo410 (Oct 13, 2005)

just wondering about the electric roaster, beacuse they do work...you couldn't go on the internet and purchase one?  or is current so differnt in Japan that it wouldn't be compatible?


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## jennyema (Oct 13, 2005)

Wrapping the turkey up in foil will make it take longer to cook and will prevent the skin form getting brown and crispy. IMO, that's a bad idea, as the entire point of roasting with dry heat is to brown the meat.

I would stick to the samller bird or spatchcock the larger one to facilitate cooking.

And definitely brine it in a salt/sugar solution if you can.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Oct 13, 2005)

jennyema said:
			
		

> Wrapping the turkey up in foil will make it take longer to cook and will prevent the skin form getting brown and crispy. IMO, that's a bad idea, as the entire point of roasting with dry heat is to brown the meat.
> 
> I would stick to the samller bird or spatchcock the larger one to facilitate cooking.
> 
> And definitely brine it in a salt/sugar solution if you can.


 
Jenny; I don't wrap in foil, just place foil on the breast skin.  This serves to allow all the meat to cook at the same rate.  The dark meat gets done at the same time as the dark meat.  Then, about thirty minutes or so before it's time to remove the turkey, I remove all foil and brown the skin to a crispy golden brown.

And to answer the question posed, yes.  Brining will make the brid more juicy.  

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## jennyema (Oct 13, 2005)

GW,

Re: foil, I do just the opposite. 

I cook the bird at high heat (450-500)for a while (depends on weight), then turn to 375.

I turn the bird around once from left to right to account for the higher temp at the back of the oven and tent the breast at the end if it's getting too brown.

I tried it your way but could never get the breast to brown up the way I like, as I always mistimed taking the foil off.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Oct 13, 2005)

I've done it your way too.  I find that it really doesn't make a great deal of difference, as long as you give the skin sufficient time to brown.  

There have even been time when I forgot to take the foil off, and then had to brown the sking with the broiler.  That worked pretty well also.  And onece, just once, I browned the skin outside the oven with a propane torch.   Now that was a pain.  But no one could tell the difference when it was done.

I feel that the meat is the most important part.  For me, both the white and dark meat have to be extremely juicy and tender.  The crispy skin is a definite bonus that I strive for.  It's yummy. 

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## JapanHusker (Oct 13, 2005)

Does anybody have a nice and easy, yet delicious brine recipe?

I heard that the whole bird must be submerged overnight in the brine (usually in a large container).  What about putting the bird in a large cooking bag, then adding the brine and tying it up, would that work?  I ask cuz my fridge - along with my stove - is Japanese-sized, so space is limited.

One other thing:  I HAVE seen some brine recipes, and they all call for "kosher" salt.  Not sure exactly what that is, nor if I can get it here.  However, what if I used "sea salt", would that work?

JH


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## purrfectlydevine (Oct 13, 2005)

You should still have plenty of meat with a turkey weighing 12 pounds. We always roast the day before.  I posted all about it in another thread.  I'll look for it and let you know where it is so you can find it.


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## purrfectlydevine (Oct 13, 2005)

The name of the thread where I posted about side dishes is *Thanksgiving is at my house this year, HELP!*


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## purrfectlydevine (Oct 13, 2005)

JapanHusker said:
			
		

> Does anybody have a nice and easy, yet delicious brine recipe?
> 
> I heard that the whole bird must be submerged overnight in the brine (usually in a large container). What about putting the bird in a large cooking bag, then adding the brine and tying it up, would that work? I ask cuz my fridge - along with my stove - is Japanese-sized, so space is limited.
> 
> ...


 
Alton Brown (Good Eats) on Food Network did a show on brining.  If you go to www.foodtv.com and click on recipes and do a search it should come up.  Kosher salt is "flatter" and coarser than the regular table salt used in the US.  This is the usage tips from my box of Morton (brand name) Kosher salt.  "Generally you can use Morton coarse Kosher salt in your favorite recipes as you would use Morton table salt or Canning and Pickling salt...teaspoon for teaspoon.  For amounts greater than 1/4 cup, increase the amount ot Kosher salt by 1 tablespoon for each 1/4 cup of Kosher salt."  So, it seems to me that if you are using a fine grained salt in an amount over 1/4 cup in a recipe calling for Kosher salt, you would need to decrease the amount by 1 tablespoon per 1/4 cup.  There may be more accurate information on the foodtv website.


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## JapanHusker (Oct 13, 2005)

Thanks.  Well, we will have between 11  and 14 people total (including us), so I was really hoping to go with a 16-18 lb.  

Now, I am debating whether to cook TWO birds separtately at 10 - 12 lbs a piece.  That would make sure we would have more than enough and it would cut down on other "filler" food (e.g. casseroles) I'd have to make to make up for the lost meat.  IN addition, should I completely fail on the first one, at least I could try to make some adjustments on the second to salvage the day.

OR

Go with either a 10-12 lb or 12-14 lb and, as mentioned above, have some more filler food - make an extra casserole or two.  Another option to this (I mentioned in one of my earlier posts) is to go out and buy a couple roasted chickens.  This would assure plenty of meat, as well as having a variety of tastes.

Quite a quandary...


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## lindatooo (Oct 13, 2005)

_Japan, I quite agree with your last idea.  Part of the joy of Turkey Day is the multitude of side dishes!_

_Hugs and Good Luck!_


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## JapanHusker (Oct 14, 2005)

Noted.  

So here is one for you then:  

Say I were to go with the 10-12 lb bird for around 11 people (much less than the usually recommended 1.5 lbs per person).  Aside from veggies and deviled eggs for appetizers, the stuffing, mashed potatoes and gravy, macaroni salad, 2 casseroles, bisquits, and 3 pies (2 pumpkin and a chocolate silk) I am planning, any suggestions what I might add to assure enough food along with a variety of tastes?

Go with a chicken or two, or another salad, or maybe another casserol perhaps?  Or, will what I listed be more than enough?  

NOTE: This is the first Thanksgiving I have ever held so I am shooting from the hip here (based on memories of Thanksgivings Past when growing up - but, at that time, I really didn't pay much attention to how many were there and how much was served.  I just ATE!)

Much thanks!

JH


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## Tater Tot (Oct 14, 2005)

JapanHusker said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, cannot buy one of those here. I am confined to using my Japanese sized oven.
> 
> Thanks anyway.


 
You should be able to get one at any BX or at least mail order..If all else fails smoke one!  But I did do some checking and from what I found you should get a turkey that will still give you 2 inches from the top and the bottom. Put your turkey on a roasting rack in a pan and cover with foil..cook in a slow oven for about 3 hours for a 20lb turkey and then turn up the heat and remove the foil for the last half hour to brown the skin..Tip: paprika on the skin will help it brown better..


The Tot


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## purrfectlydevine (Oct 14, 2005)

JapanHusker said:
			
		

> Noted.
> 
> So here is one for you then:
> 
> ...


 
A cranberry relish of some sort would be nice.


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## jennyema (Oct 14, 2005)

It's always a god idea to use less table salt if you are subbing it in a recipe where kosher salt is called for. Even in small amounts. Esp. in baking and especially if you are using Diamond Crystal brand (which has larger flakes). 

Here's Alton Brown's conversion:

*If you want to use table salt for kosher salt, multiply the kosher salt quantity by 2/3*, eg. 1 teaspoon kosher salt = 2/3 teaspoon table salt; 1 cup kosher = 2/3 cup table.

*If you want to use kosher salt for table salt, multiply the table salt quantity by 1.5.,* eg 1 teaspoon table salt = 1 1/2 teaspoons kosher salt; 1 cup table = 1 1/2 cup kosher.

More fun Alton Factoids


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