# Arthritis/Dog



## In the Kitchen (Feb 23, 2008)

Do any of you have animals with arthritis?  If so, could you suggest what I can do till I take him to doctor to try acupuncture?
Thanks


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## LadyCook61 (Feb 23, 2008)

PetLabs 360 Arthogen for Dogs dog


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## texasgirl (Feb 23, 2008)

I give my dogs these. They do pretty good.


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## jpmcgrew (Feb 23, 2008)

LadyCook61 said:


> PetLabs 360 Arthogen for Dogs dog


I have also used chondroitin and glucosamine on my redbone hound it worked great. Acupuncture and pain pills will help the symptoms (pain & stiffness) but the supplement actually addresses the problem by building up the cartilage in their joints. It's worth trying a bottle made for dogs just to see if it works Dog Arthritis Medicine: Canine Arthritis Medicine Choices for Dogs from Drs. Foster & Smith


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## Fisher's Mom (Feb 23, 2008)

It's been many years since I had a dog with arthritis but at the time, I gave him one aspirin daily. He was a fairly big dog - a Chesapeake Bay Retriever - and I'm not sure what the dosage would be for smaller dogs. Also, I vaguely recall reading something about not giving chihuahuas aspirin. I don't know what kind of dog you have or if they even give aspirin to dogs anymore so hopefully someone here will know more about this.


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## Maverick2272 (Feb 23, 2008)

We used to give our dog (a collie) an aspirin a day as well. We stopped when she died three years ago, but it did help the whole time.


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## jpmcgrew (Feb 23, 2008)

Here is a list of human medicines that work for dogs. They tell you the milligrams and to use buffered aspirin.
A:\meds.htm


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## pacanis (Feb 23, 2008)

In the Kitchen said:


> Do any of you have animals with arthritis? If so, could you suggest what I can do till I take him to doctor to try acupuncture?
> Thanks


 
You could probably do anything you feel like short of giving any type of medication. I'm assuming here that holistic type procedures are what you are after, since that is what acupuncture is?
I would like to hear how this works out for your dog, after you decide to take him in.

Like others have suggested, there comes a time to mask pain to make your pet's life more comortable.


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## Barbara L (Feb 23, 2008)

jpmcgrew said:


> Here is a list of human medicines that work for dogs. They tell you the milligrams and to use buffered aspirin.
> A:\meds.htm


Thank you for posting this site.  Our dog Cubbie is showing most of the symptoms of a skin allergy (Atopy), and the things I have read said to change his diet (no wheat or corn) and that an antihistamine might help.  We have switched him to a lamb and rice food.  I have heard that Benadryl is okay for dogs, and this says it is okay.  I will, of course, also talk to the vet about this and about my suspicions about Cubbie having Atopy.

Barbara


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## Bilby (Feb 24, 2008)

Of course the other thing is to make sure the dog stays off of cold floors, a nice warm sheepskin over his bed is ideal. I had a very old cat (pushing 19 at the time) with arthritis so I just took her to the vet once a month for an injection, steroids I think but wouldn't swear to it. Over exposure can cause kidney damage, or exaccerbate existing damage, which it did in her case but she was able to move a lot better for those last few months.

You could also try massage.


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## pacanis (Feb 24, 2008)

Aspirin is OK for a dog if it *DOESN'T* have ibuproffen in it.  Then it could kill your pet. I did not see mention of that on the site that was posted.
*No ibuproffen!*

Barbara, you could talk to your vet, but it's been my experience that they would rather put your dog on prednisone and tell you to keep giving him benedryl than addressing the actual problem. I have seen this first hand with dozens of vets.

True, corn wheat and soy are major allergy culprits when it comes to dog food. Eliminate those and you _usually_ eliminate your problem(s), and that goes for treats, too.
Switching to a lamb and rice food may or may not have eliminated those grains. It depends which L & R food you chose.  There aren't many that are true L & R foods, especially if they aren't a holistic or all natural food. Take Iams for instance. Their L & R food has chicken in it  and _brewers_ rice, which is one of the off products from making beer. And if I'm not mistaken, does not contain taurine. Their sister co., Eukanuba, has started adding taurine to their lamb and rice food. Taurine is a chemical not found in lamb protein. Crufts medical university did a study and found that dogs fed a lamb and rice diet for five years developed heart problems and that was related to the lack of taurine in their diet.  So you want a L & R food that contains taurine.


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## texasgirl (Feb 24, 2008)

Yeap, I was giving my Molly baby aspirin. When we took her to the vet, they prescribed her Rimadyl, but, had to wait 72 hours to get the aspirin out of her system. I don't remember why they said it wasn't good, but, I won't give any of them aspirin again.
Poor baby suffered 3 days because I was doing what I thought was okay. Just watch the aspirin.


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## pacanis (Feb 24, 2008)

It may have been the coating on the baby aspirin, too.
Don't ask me why, because dogs can eat raw meat and bones without a problem, but a candy coated aspirin (or any pill) can eat their stomach lining if given on a regular basis.


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## In the Kitchen (Feb 24, 2008)

*Prayers*

How truly GRATEFUL I am to all who responded.  It is absolutely humbling to know people care so much for their pets.  Thank you for your sincere concern.  My prayers are answered and I will take your suggestions and try to see which ones do the best until the appointment with the vet for the acupuncture.  (My brother who has serious problem with arthritis is afraid to get  the shots.  So when I told him about the dog, he wants me to be sure to let him know how well he does with them.  Kind of backwards to me, but that is my family)

I was so frantic last night with him moaning everytime he was trying to move. That is why I asked about your experience with your pets.  It is such a grateful feeling to have all of you to take the time to try to help my dog.  He would definitely appreciate it.  My regular vet seemed so depressed when he took the xray and gave him t he strong steroid injection which he knows I don't care for but as someone said the dog's comfort is my main concern right now.  I do feed him lamb and rice food by Science Diet but I am going to definitely check the label to find out about this taurine ingredient that someone mentioned.  All this information I am going to forward to my niece who now has '18 fosters' (told me this week one she just got has to be bathed every other day for some kind of yeast  trouble that made the dog lose its hair.  Owners gave the dog up when the vet  told them what had to be done.  My niece is now doing it.)  She could write a book on how to really show love for animals.  Got off the track with this topic.  When he lays there moaning and can't tell you why to see him relaxed and comfortable is a blessing.

Once again, you are an answer to my prayer and may God bless you and your dogs with good health.  Thanks for caring.  You have truly touched my heart.


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## Barbara L (Feb 24, 2008)

pacanis said:


> ...Barbara, you could talk to your vet, but it's been my experience that they would rather put your dog on prednisone and tell you to keep giving him benedryl than addressing the actual problem. I have seen this first hand with dozens of vets.
> 
> True, corn wheat and soy are major allergy culprits when it comes to dog food. Eliminate those and you _usually_ eliminate your problem(s), and that goes for treats, too. Switching to a lamb and rice food may or may not have eliminated those grains. It depends which L & R food you chose. There aren't many that are true L & R foods, especially if they aren't a holistic or all natural food. Take Iams for instance. Their L & R food has chicken in it  and _brewers_ rice, which is one of the off products from making beer. And if I'm not mistaken, does not contain taurine. Their sister co., Eukanuba, has started adding taurine to their lamb and rice food. Taurine is a chemical not found in lamb protein. Crufts medical university did a study and found that dogs fed a lamb and rice diet for five years developed heart problems and that was related to the lack of taurine in their diet. So you want a L & R food that contains taurine.


Thanks! Can you buy taurine separately? With both of us being out of work and being down to our last few dollars, we couldn't buy the most expensive food, but we didn't want to keep giving him what he had been eating (1st ingredient was corn and it had a lot of wheat too). We went to Tractor Supply Co., and I bought Diamond brand Lamb and Rice formula. It doesn't list taurine. It lists: Lamb meal, whole grain brown rice, cracked pearled barley, millet, egg product, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), rice bran, beet pulp, flaxseed, natural flavor, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hyrocholoride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, and folic acid. Sorry that is so long! I just wanted to include everything it said was in it, since you know more about these things than I do. I figured this has to be better than what he was eating (Alpo Prime Cuts, and Pedigree), but if it ends up giving him heart problems, I don't know! I also give him fish oil capsules. He needs a bath (I bought some oatmeal shampoo for him) but I am waiting for it to warm up a bit. I think this week will be okay for it. Cubbie has been on the new food for a week now. He still scratches, but it seems to have slowed a bit, and he isn't shaking his head as much. 

Barbara
P.S. Sorry to slightly hijack this thread!


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## pacanis (Feb 24, 2008)

Gee, I could have looked it up  thanks for typing that out though.

Those ingredients are a LOT better than Hill's science diet L & R, which I did look up. It surprises me to see how good they are as a matter of fact. Which is a good thing.  I imagine Diamond had to do something to bolster their image after the aflotoxin debacle a few years ago.
OK, I had to go look. This is their Diamond "Naturals" isn't it?  No wonder the ingredients aren't half bad. They didn't have a Naturals a few years ago.  I didn't see a L & R in their regular formulas.

All I know is what the study said.  It was a five years study and dogs were suffering heart problems after that time.  I also know some people first hand whose dogs were on a L & R diet and who died prematurely for heart problems around 5-6 years of age.  The food they were feeding also did not contain taurine, which is not found in lamb, but _is_ in other sources of meat protein. I'm sorry I don't know the recommended amount and also don't know if you can pick up some pills or powder at GNC or something.

But, that said, Cubbie may not have needed the L & R diet.  He may have just needed something without corn, wheat and soy.  Dogs are typically more allergic to those than meat protein sources (with the exception of beef).

And, something else to consider, you buy a bag of food, you get some fish oil pills, some other supplement, a few benedryl every day, special shampoo, a trip or two to the vet.... Is that really worth saving 10 bucks on a bag of food?  Just trying to make a point here. 10 bucks is a lot of money, but so are the things I mentioned.

BTW, if he's shaking his head he probably has ear infections which can also be food related, typically a yeast infection. There are cleaners you can try and some homemade ones on the internet, but someone I know said the only thing that will work for his Westie is white vinegar put on a gauze pad (or paper towel) and swabbed out every day and Vagisil for when it gets really bad.

And usually it takes a few weeks for something like a food change to take effect on what you are trying to correct, so it sounds like you're on the right path with Cubbie if his itching is slowing down. The ear infection won't go away on its own unfortunately.


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## Barbara L (Feb 24, 2008)

Since we had already made an appointment to have him neutered (which we have to change because I won't be here, and because we probably just won't have the money) I thought I would ask about it then. Since I'm not a vet, I obviously can't diagnose him, but Cubbie had just about all the symptoms listed in the article I found about Atopy (shaking head, scratching armpits, etc.). To the naked eye his ears seem fine (and he doesn't mind me looking in them or touching them). His head shaking has slowed as well as the scratching, so I am praying it isn't an infection. I'd rather spend the money on him and eat less myself, since he is just an innocent party in this, but we are down to our last $400 and have bills to pay, so we will all have to deal with whatever we have. Hopefully I will find a job when I get back from California (my daughter bought the ticket, and it will actually save us money since I won't be here for 2 weeks), and we are praying that James will get a good job when he is finished with his CAD training in June. Sorry to go so far off topic with this. Life just crashed in on me for a second. I have total faith that things will work out, and when things do get better we will be able to get whatever we and Cubbie need. In the meantime, he is well fed, and he is very loved. Other than a little itching, he doesn't seem to be bothered by anything. Thanks for your help.

Barbara


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## texasgirl (Feb 24, 2008)

Vagisil, are you serious?? LOL
One of mine has mites and we usually put a drop in it that smells horrible, like old nasty peaches or something. His ears are crusty and stink from a yeast infection. I assume the vagisil will help this too. LOL


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## Fisher's Mom (Feb 24, 2008)

If your dog or cat has a yeast overgrowth in his ears, here's a cheap and very effective remedy. Clean the ear well with soap and water on a cotton ball and then dry it. Then, apply gentian violet to the entire inside of the ear using a q-tip. I recommend doing this outside because it is a _bright_ purple and will stain. (But once it's dry, it doesn't rub off.) Do this twice a day until it clears up. Sometimes it can take a week or 2. You can buy it at most pharmacies and a little $10 bottle will last you forever.


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## texasgirl (Feb 24, 2008)

okay, I guess I should have just come here for ideas. LOL

Wait, I just looked this up. It is the same as what we use for thrush, isn't it?


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## Fisher's Mom (Feb 24, 2008)

Yep, that's the stuff!


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## pacanis (Feb 24, 2008)

texasgirl said:


> Vagisil, are you serious?? LOL
> One of mine has mites and we usually put a drop in it that smells horrible, like old nasty peaches or something. His ears are crusty and stink from a yeast infection. I assume the vagisil will help this too. LOL


 
I can't help you with the mites. I would think you would want to clear them up first in case a cream promotes their spread, but yup, I'm serious about the vagisil. I'm sure he wouldn't be using it if it didn't work on his dog's ears.


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## Fisher's Mom (Feb 24, 2008)

Oh yeah, vagisil will definitely work and it's infinitely less messy that gentian violet, but much more expensive. For the mites, use a q-tip and gauze and clean out the ears well. If they have a real mite problem, there will be lots of black gook that looks similar to coffee grinds. After you get as much as you can out, put 10-15 drops of plain mineral oil in each ear. Pull on the ear slightly so you can massage at the bottom to work the oil well down into the ear. Do this a couple of times a day for a couple of weeks. The oil actually drowns the mites - like putting vaseline on a tick. It takes longer than the insecticide drops to completely clear the mites but it's also much safer if you have young children around.


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## Aera (Feb 24, 2008)

In the Kitchen said:


> Do any of you have animals with arthritis? If so, could you suggest what I can do till I take him to doctor to try acupuncture?
> Thanks


 

My brothers dog had arthritis and he was giving him Novox, which is the generic equivalent to Rimadyl.  My brother said on Novox his dog went from not being able to get up,  to running around again like a young pup! So you might want to ask your vet about trying that maybe.


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## jpmcgrew (Feb 24, 2008)

Fisher's Mom said:


> Oh yeah, vagisil will definitely work and it's infinitely less messy that gentian violet, but much more expensive. For the mites, use a q-tip and gauze and clean out the ears well. If they have a real mite problem, there will be lots of black gook that looks similar to coffee grinds. After you get as much as you can out, put 10-15 drops of plain mineral oil in each ear. Pull on the ear slightly so you can massage at the bottom to work the oil well down into the ear. Do this a couple of times a day for a couple of weeks. The oil actually drowns the mites - like putting vaseline on a tick. It takes longer than the insecticide drops to completely clear the mites but it's also much safer if you have young children around.


The oil only works if it's a mild case of mites. My redbone hound would get them really bad because his long ears kept it a warm enviroment. The vet wanted to knock him out to flush the insides of his ears but I would not let him as knocking out a dog is so hard on them. So we did it straight up My dear Henry just let him do it and then he got a shot. Worked like a dream. If you have a long eared dog if you can can find a way to tie the ears up every so often to get cooler fresh air they are less prone to ear mites also use the oil to prevent problems before they start.


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## jpmcgrew (Feb 24, 2008)

Aera said:


> My brothers dog had arthritis and he was giving him Novox, which is the generic equivalent to Rimadyl. My brother said on Novox his dog went from not being able to get up, to running around again like a young pup! So you might want to ask your vet about trying that maybe.


 I want to say this one more time from experience Rimadyl,steroids etc only stop the pain/symptoms if you try chondroitin and glucosamine formulas for dogs it addresses the actual problem by filling in the cartilage between the joints. My redbone hound got to the point he could not get up in the morning very well and could not jump into the back of the truck those supplements help greatly which also help humans unless it's Rheumatoid Arthritis. Steroids will kill the pain but they also make the dog extremely thirsty and hungry


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## Fisher's Mom (Feb 24, 2008)

jpmcgrew said:


> The oil only works if it's a mild case of mites. My redbone hound would get them really bad because his long ears kept it a warm enviroment. The vet wanted to knock him out to flush the insides of his ears but I would not let him as knocking out a dog is so hard on them. So we did it straight up My dear Henry just let him do it and then he got a shot. Worked like a dream. If you have a long eared dog if you can can find a way to tie the ears up every so often to get cooler fresh air they are less prone to ear mites also use the oil to prevent problems before they start.


Actually, the oil will work even on heavy infestations but it takes cleaning the black gunk out and putting in the oil twice a day for a couple of weeks at least. The shot or even the drops from the vet work faster and are much easier but if finances don't allow for a trip to the vet, the oil will work. They still recommend it for animals who have a sensitivity to insecticides.

You bring up a good point about long-eared dogs. Keeping them clean and dry is a challenge but helps with mites and infections. Also, if your dog is a breed that grows a lot of hair inside his ears, pluck the hair out regularly with tweezers or forceps. It allows wax to drain and air to get in so fewer infections.


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## jpmcgrew (Feb 24, 2008)

As a matter of fact it was the steroids that killed my beloved Henry he was so ravenous he went down the hill and chewed up some dead elk bones which in turn splintered and poked a hole in his intestines which gave him peritonitis ( a really bad infection) he was taking steroids as he had problems with his jaw that would send him into howling pain so I had no choice but let him have the steroids but it was never for his arthritis because the chondroitin and glucosamine worked so well.


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## In the Kitchen (Mar 4, 2008)

pacanis said:


> You could probably do anything you feel like short of giving any type of medication. I'm assuming here that holistic type procedures are what you are after, since that is what acupuncture is?
> I would like to hear how this works out for your dog, after you decide to take him in.
> 
> Like others have suggested, there comes a time to mask pain to make your pet's life more comortable.



Because you asked, and feel that there is choice when it comes to helping our pets I feel strongly that acupuncture helps the situation. Not only does the dog seem more comfortable but he is barking again when he wants to 'voice' his opinion.

The doctor said the dog is doing some kind of balancing act like he is on a pogo stick as the nerve in his neck is pinched which causes all this biting on his paws.  The doctor stuck one big needle in his head, then waited few minutes and dog seemed more relaxed and then he started sticking in different locations around his legs.  The dog never resisted at all.  Seemed the needles must be so sharp, hardly feel them although to me it sure looked very painful.  The doctor said to make appointment for 5-7 days and then return cause to discontinue before full treatment is given would not do any good.  He also gave me some herbs to give him.  One thing about all this is I know these things aren't going against the body, a natural type of treatment.  I cannot believe of all the steroid shots the the regular vet gave him to try to stop him biting his paws which he considered to be due to allergies. The dog hardly bites his paws like he did in past, one thing obvious to me. More relaxed.  It truly is blessing when you can give relief to your pets.  I only find guilt in not finding out about this sooner. Oh the dog's name is China, mom named him that when she had him.  We kept the name and doctor thought unusual for dog named China and come for Chinese treatment.  It is strange to me too.  

We go back Wednesday for another treatment.  I will do everything I can to make all the appointments when it gives such positive results.  I only wish he could treat me too for problems I have.  He did say he could recommend doctor but I can't pay for myself until the dog gets better.  When I questioned my vet about this doctor, he knew of him and said he is very good.  Why didn't he suggest I go to him then?  Had to go on Internet to local people here to find help.  

Thanks for all your help and interest.  I would recommend if you want to keep your pets longer that you find someone who uses acupuncture.  They had other animals in the office not only dogs.  If only animals could talk.


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## pacanis (Mar 4, 2008)

That's great news ITK.  Thanks for letting me know. I like to keep up on this stuff.
I don't know if anyone around me does accupuncture to dogs... I know there is a holistic vet semi-nearby. I'll have to check around in case I, or someone I know, needs an alternative cure for our pets.

Cool stuff!


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## In the Kitchen (Mar 4, 2008)

*pacanis*

That is so appreciated for you to give someone else hope in an alternative way.  I was thinking it was the end, but today looks like he wants to give me trouble if I don't do as he wants.  (Normal)  As long as he still wanted to eat his food I knew he was not wanting to throw in the towel, as my vet seemed to indicate.  Now I wonder what happened to his dog since recently had to put down.  As long as mine is doing okay is my worry.  Hope you have only pets with good health.  As I often say, if it wasn't for my dogs I wouldn't feel as if life is worth it.  Sure different than when I was married and otherwise.


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