# ISO the Best Tomato Sauce



## Candied_Flipper

*Let's talk about tomato sauce.*

I have some on the stove right now! Here's what i put in it: 

Sauteed garlic and mushrooms, followed by six spicy/hot sausages cut into 3rds which were then seared before adding crushed tomatoes. A little salt and pepper, basil and oregano (unfortunately the herbs were not fresh, i only had dried) And a small handful of Parmesan cheese. I had baked some chicken earlier in the day and saved the drippings so, screw it, in the pot it goes. Popped on the lid and lowered to a simmer. Now i plan on letting it sit for quite a while, at least until the sausage is cooked through. I find the longer you cook a sauce the better the end result but is it possible I'll over-cook the meat? 

Anyway, now that ive explained the recipie that will begin making me millions of dollars let's get to the real reason i created this thread... I want to pick the brains of all you brilliant bolognese chefs out there. All you secret sauce samaritans, all you pasta pro's with something to prove. 

*I need to know*, what makes a good tomato sauce a good tomato sauce.
What ingredients are your favorites and which are taboo?
What techniques are sacred in your sauce-making?
What are some crazy sauces you guys and gals have free-styled?
Is it fair to dip Mozzarella sticks in marinara while your spaghetti is bone dry?!
Ive heard of people putting vinegar in their sauce. Is this cool?

Simply put, I wanna know your deepest darkest tomato sauce secrets! Let the compendium begin!


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## Candied_Flipper

I'll start by sharing some of the things iv'e learned over the years. I'm only 25 but as a kid i was lucky enough to take some classes at the CIA (Culinary Institute of America) These were only introductory classes but the magesty of that place has left me with a great passion for food. Here's some of the stuff they taught me:

Using the flat side if your knife to crush garlic is an excellent way to quickly remove the skin. Speaking of garlic, if you don't saute it first and still have a good sauce when its done, I want to shake your hand.

Wait for the water to come to a rolling boil before adding your pasta. This helps prevent it from over-boiling and spilling over. Something to do with the starch i can't remember, but it works! Also laying a wooden spoon over the pot helps with this to. Science!

Butter can add a lot of flavor to a tomato sauce. But if your sauces already have a lot of fat in em like mine usually do (from the oil, meat, etc) Then Heavy cream or even whole milk can taste pretty good. Thickens up the sauce too.

This one is pretty obvious but Pasta is done when its al dente. Its spaghetti not ramen people.

I swear i can remember my grandmother throwing in a whole chunk of Parmesan cheese into her sauce. If you don't have grated, Don't sweat it.

In my opinion, the longer a sauce simmers the better its going to taste, especially when there's some kind of meat in there. Oh. Em. Gee. 

I can't really think of anything else right now. Will post again if something comes to mind.


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## Addie

Candied_Flipper said:


> *Let's talk about tomato sauce.*
> 
> I have some on the stove right now! Here's what i put in it:
> 
> Sauteed garlic and mushrooms, followed by six spicy/hot sausages cut into 3rds which were then seared before adding crushed tomatoes. A little salt and pepper, basil and oregano (unfortunately the herbs were not fresh, i only had dried) And a small handful of Parmesan cheese. I had baked some chicken earlier in the day and saved the drippings so, screw it, in the pot it goes. Popped on the lid and lowered to a simmer. Now i plan on letting it sit for quite a while, at least until the sausage is cooked through. I find the longer you cook a sauce the better the end result but is it possible I'll over-cook the meat?
> 
> Anyway, now that ive explained the recipie that will begin making me millions of dollars let's get to the real reason i created this thread... I want to pick the brains of all you brilliant bolognese folks out there. All you secret sauce samaritans, all you pasta pro's with something to prove.
> 
> *I need to know*, what makes a good tomato sauce a good tomato sauce.
> What ingredients are your favorites and which are taboo?
> What techniques are sacred in your sauce-making?
> What are some crazy sauces you guys and gals have free-styled?
> Is it fair to dip Mozzarella sticks in marinara while your spaghetti is bone dry?!
> Ive heard of people putting vinegar in their sauce. Is this cool?
> 
> Simply put, I wanna know your deepest darkest tomato sauce secrets! Let the compendium begin!



To start with tomato sauce is the basic sauce. I doubt I have anything to prove to anyone. At my age, I just cook for myself and all desserts go to my kids. Nothing special about my sauce. I grew up in an Italian neighborhood and watched many a Noni stirring her sauce. Even on a hot summer's day.


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## no mayonnaise

I feel the opposite about long cooking a tomato sauce. The longer a tomato cooks in sauce, the less tomato flavor it retains. It loses its bright fruity flavor and turns darker, murkier. I don't put meat in a tomato sauce ever, though. Twenty to thirty minutes is the longest it goes for me.


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## Addie

no mayonnaise said:


> I feel the opposite about long cooking a tomato sauce. The longer a tomato cooks in sauce, the less tomato flavor it retains. It loses its bright fruity flavor and turns darker, murkier. I don't put meat in a tomato sauce ever, though. Twenty to thirty minutes is the longest it goes for me.



I am with you NM. Even Lydia makes quick sauces. Tomato and others. I think long cooking destroys any flavoring of the seasonings.


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## Andy M.

Quick sauces/long simmering sauces are just two different types.  One isn't better than the other, they are different.


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## chiklitmanfan

First thanks for this thread because I've learned a LOT just reading the posts.

I'll tell on myself and confess I seldom make from-scratch tomato sauce because my wife and I still work full-time and are gone for as much as 11-12 hours a day. Since I'm already 68 years old, salt content is critical. Some of the popular brands of tomato sauce contain up to 30% sodium(!!) 

I prefer Kroger's Simple Truth brand organic tomato sauce as a base because it only contains 13% sodium. At least we don't bloat up like dead toads on a hot day after consuming this product.


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## Addie

chiklitmanfan said:


> First thanks for this thread because I've learned a LOT just reading the posts.
> 
> I'll tell on myself and confess I seldom make from-scratch tomato sauce because my wife and I still work full-time and are gone for as much as 11-12 hours a day. Since I'm already 68 years old, salt content is critical. Some of the popular brands of tomato sauce contain up to 30% sodium(!!)
> 
> I prefer Kroger's Simple Truth brand organic tomato sauce as a base because it only contains 13% sodium. At least we don't bloat up like dead toads on a hot day after consuming this product.



Sometimes we tend to look down our noses at ready made, off the shelf items. But when you are employed in a job that takes you away from home for hours each day, they are so much a time saver. You do have to become an avid label reader as you get older. That old bugaboo salt is in all the food we buy except fresh from the produce department. Condiments, snacks, even cheeses all have salt in them. 

 Dead toads, huh? Good one. Got a laugh out of me.


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## Roll_Bones

Candied_Flipper said:


> *I need to know*, what makes a good tomato sauce a good tomato sauce.
> What ingredients are your favorites and which are taboo?
> What techniques are sacred in your sauce-making?
> What are some crazy sauces you guys and gals have free-styled?
> Is it fair to dip Mozzarella sticks in marinara while your spaghetti is bone dry?!
> Ive heard of people putting vinegar in their sauce. Is this cool?



1) A little labor goes a long way in making a good sauce.  I take the time to saute my onions, garlic, and bay leaf, then add fresh herbs, tomato paste and some wine to deglaze the pan.
I then add canned crushed or whole squeezed tomato along with enough water to make the right consistency.
I simmer this about one hour.  Cool and reserve into smaller containers and freeze for future use.

2) Ingredients in marinara sauce are simple.  Olive oil, onion, garlic, bay leaf and assorted herbs.  Taboo?  I would never add ice cream. 

3) Techniques?  Take your time and use all the ingredients listed above.  More if you like.  I like to keep marinara simple, so its begging for additions later on.
Freestyle?  Cooking in flip flops?   Everything I cook is freestyle.  I rarely use a recipe unless I am baking something.

4) Dipping sauce and pasta sauce may look and even be the same thing.  But I never over kill a nice pasta with too much sauce on it.  I like pasta and want to taste the pasta too.  So, I do not use more sauce than is absolutely necessary over the pasta.
My daughters put to much on their plate as they think more is better.  All I see is the wasted sauce in the bottoms of their plates when they are finished.

5) Vinegar?  Never used it in sauce and probably never will.  Unless of coarse I am missing something here.

Lastly.  I make a mother sauce. A marinara sauce I can use for many other dishes.  I make a gallon at a time.  Then from there I can make meat sauces or just add some to some linguine and top with Pecorino and I am happy.
The exception is when I make a big pot of meatballs, sausage or pork in sauce.  Like for a Sunday dinner. 
Welcome to the forum!!


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## FrankZ

Candied_Flipper said:


> Using the flat side if your knife to crush garlic is an excellent way to quickly remove the skin. Speaking of garlic, if you don't saute it first and still have a good sauce when its done, I want to shake your hand.



I have been known to add raw garlic and get a great sauce.



Candied_Flipper said:


> Wait for the water to come to a rolling boil before adding your pasta. This helps prevent it from over-boiling and spilling over. Something to do with the starch i can't remember, but it works! Also laying a wooden spoon over the pot helps with this to. Science!


The science actually says turn the heat down some.  You are putting more energy into a system than it can handle.  You push past equilibrium and the system is trying to return.  Turn the heat down a notch.  You won't make it take longer to cook.  You will save clean up.



Candied_Flipper said:


> Butter can add a lot of flavor to a tomato sauce. But if your sauces already have a lot of fat in em like mine usually do (from the oil, meat, etc) Then Heavy cream or even whole milk can taste pretty good. Thickens up the sauce too.



If you are looking for that sort of sauce.  My tomato sauce tends to be... tomato.



Candied_Flipper said:


> I swear i can remember my grandmother throwing in a whole chunk of Parmesan cheese into her sauce. If you don't have grated, Don't sweat it.



The rind is good for this.  Or anchovy.


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## Kayelle

My sauce *always* has a healthy dose of dried porchini mushrooms. Add them just once, and you'll never be without them again. Yes, they are expensive but I buy them in bulk through Amazon to make them affordable.


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## Andy M.

Kayelle said:


> My sauce *always* has a healthy dose of dried porchini mushrooms. Add them just once, and you'll never be without them again. Yes, they are expensive but I buy them in bulk through Amazon to make them affordable.



I always have dry porcini on hand.  I got mine from Oregon Mushrooms: Oregon Mushrooms

I grab a handful, chop them roughly and toss them in the sauce.


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## Kayelle

Andy M. said:


> I grab a handful, chop them roughly and toss them in the sauce.



Me too Andy. The premium quality I get are nice and clean, no need to pre soak them and they release all the flavor in cooking the sauce.


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## Mad Cook

Candied_Flipper said:


> I swear i can remember my grandmother throwing in a whole chunk of Parmesan cheese into her sauce. If you don't have grated, Don't sweat it.


She probably threw in the parmesan rind rather than waste it when she couldn't grate any more cheese off it. Fairly common in Italian families (and mine even though I'm not Italian) and it gives a lot of flavour to the sauce. It is, of course, discarded when the sauce is ready to be served. I've seen it done on television cooking demos, too.


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## Dawgluver

Kayelle said:


> My sauce *always* has a healthy dose of dried porchini mushrooms. Add them just once, and you'll never be without them again. Yes, they are expensive but I buy them in bulk through Amazon to make them affordable.




I use dried Hen of the Woods mushrooms.  Sadly, the tree where my friend used to find them was cut down, no more free mushrooms unless we can find another dying oak with them.


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## Mad Cook

Candied_Flipper said:


> *
> 
> I've heard of people putting vinegar in their sauce. Is this cool?
> 
> *


*Vinegar is often used as an alternative to wine either because cooks have no wine available or they are teetotal or because the recipe asks for it. 

Wine vinegar would be best, I think, although balsamic or cider vinegar would probably work if you have it in.

In France they often use verjuice (made from the sour juice of unripe grapes) as an alternative to vinegar.*


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## no mayonnaise

I wouldn't add anything acidic to a tomato sauce until the very end if it's too sweet and then I'll add some citric acid I keep around for adding acidity without too much extra flavor. Adding anything sweet or acidic to a tomato sauce before it's done cooking is unwise because tomatoes vary in acidity and sweetness. For me a tomato sauce is bright and slightly acidic on the tongue and has a sweeter, almost mellow finish rounded out by the supporting flavors in the sauce and that's the attribute I feel gets lost when you cook tomatoes for too long. A long cooked sauce is more of a one note flavor to me.


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## jennyema

Kayelle said:


> My sauce *always* has a healthy dose of dried porchini mushrooms. Add them just once, and you'll never be without them again. Yes, they are expensive but I buy them in bulk through Amazon to make them affordable.



I use them too.  They are such a great umami addition to tomato sauce and so many other things.

The best I've had I brought back from that big market in Florence, Italy.  The stuff you buy here does not compare.  Then I found a serviceable tub of them at BJ's Warehouse (think Costco) but they stopped selling them because no one bought them.  Now I usually buy them at Eataly in NYC.

Dried porcinis are a fabulous and versatile ingredient.


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## jennyema

Mad Cook said:


> Vinegar is often used as an alternative to wine either because cooks have no wine available or they are teetotal or because the recipe asks for it.
> 
> Wine vinegar would be best, I think, although balsamic or cider vinegar would probably work if you have it in.
> 
> In France they often use verjuice (made from the sour juice of unripe grapes) as an alternative to vinegar.




Wine is usually added to tomato sauce for the alcohol not the acid .  Tomatoes are acidic enough on their own.

Alcohol dissolved flavor components better that water or oil does.

Alcohol is especially effective with tomatoes.  Hence red wine and vodka being used.


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## Kayelle

jennyema said:


> I use them too.  They are such a great umami addition to tomato sauce and so many other things.
> 
> *The best I've had I brought back from that big market in Florence, Italy.  The stuff you buy here does not compare.*  Then I found a serviceable tub of them at BJ's Warehouse (think Costco) but they stopped selling them because no one bought them.  Now I usually buy them at Eataly in NYC.
> 
> Dried porcinis are a fabulous and versatile ingredient.



How right you are jenny. The flavor was unsurpassed but they ended up in the dumpster. I had to go find this this thread of my Italian porcinis disaster..Only now I can laugh...http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f129/mushroom-disaster-73626.html


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## Roll_Bones

Dawgluver said:


> I use dried Hen of the Woods mushrooms.  Sadly, the tree where my friend used to find them was cut down, no more free mushrooms unless we can find another dying oak with them.



I learned about "hen" on a new TV show called "Filthy Riches".
A couple travel the US finding and picking wild mushrooms for a living.  They seem to do quite well.
Interesting to say the least.


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## Dawgluver

Roll_Bones said:


> I learned about "hen" on a new TV show called "Filthy Riches".
> A couple travel the US finding and picking wild mushrooms for a living.  They seem to do quite well.
> Interesting to say the least.




Wonderful mushroom.  One took up my whole sink!  They're great to freeze or dehydrate.  I'd never heard of it until a friend gave us the ones he found, no one in his family would eat it!

I'll have to look for that show.


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## Zagut

Candied_Fipper, My answers to your questions are: 
what makes a good tomato sauce a good tomato sauce?
A good tomato sauce is a sauce that those who eat it enjoy it's taste while they eat it.

What ingredients are your favorites and which are taboo?

My favorite ingredient is tomatoes and there is no such thing as a taboo ingredient. We all have different tastes.

What techniques are sacred in your sauce-making?

Nothing is sacred. You make due with what life hands you and do the best with what you have.

What are some crazy sauces you guys and gals have free-styled?

If you can think of it I've most likely tossed it in the pot. Now if you could eat it and keep it down is another story.

Is it fair to dip Mozzarella sticks in marinara while your spaghetti is bone dry?!

All is fair in what's on the plate. Don't like it. Don't eat it.

I've heard of people putting vinegar in their sauce. Is this cool?

Hey if it tastes good then it's as cool as can be.


There are no hard and fast rules for tomato sauce's. Quick tomato sauces are great as are the long cooked sauces. They each have there place depending what you want to use them for and the mood your taste buds are in. 

Tomato sauce is one of those things that if you have 100 chiefs you'll have 101 ways to prepare the best.


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## Sir_Loin_of_Beef

The key to good tomato sauce is simplicity. I start with crushed tomatoes, and the only seasoning I find necessary are salt, pepper and sautéed onions. Oregano does not belong in tomato sauce, it belongs on a pizza. Same with basil. I add a little bit of crushed red pepper to my sauce, but that's personal taste. My mother didn't and neither did my grandmother. 

I also take about a quart of sauce out of the pot before I add any meat because I make a couple of Italian dishes with fish, and I don't want meat polluting that sauce. Oh, and I always cook the sausage and meatballs before adding them to the sauce. It is much less greasy that way.


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## PHYLAL

I have been making tomato sauce for more years than I care to remember.  I put up about 50 quarts every fall.  While I have one go-to sauce, a Fra Diavolo style, and about 12 pints of Puttanesca sauce for myself, I always try one or two batches of something new.  I have learned one thing over the years: If you ask 100 Italian chefs how to make the best tomato sauce, you will get 125 answers; most of them pretty good.  I think tomato sauce is one of the most forgiving foods that you can cook.  One time, many years ago, I googled “tomato sauce” and it found 20,200,000 sites.  I actually looked at the first 125 recipes, charted the ingredients and found….. are you ready for this….. 86 different ingredients.  I am sure that someone “loved” each and every one of those reciepes.
Not only are there a myriad of ingredients, but about as many procedures.  Drain off water, add water (or beer, or broth), quick cook, long-slow simmer (for hours, even days).  One says, “add this early” another says “be sure to add it last”.  Sauté this, caramelize that, never use a blender, tomatoes must be seeded, do not worry about the seeds.  I read one recipe that emphatically declared, “NEVER put an onion in tomato sauce” while 99% of the others use onions.
Even with my many years of experience, I have not come close to trying it all; and never will.  But it will be a glorious adventure trying.
Bottom line: If you like it, it is the best in the world.


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## Kayelle

+1..what he said!


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## CraigC

If I make a tomato sauce for a specific purpose, then I'll use the ingredients called for. Otherwise, I'll stick to my mother sauce to be canned or put in the deep freezer.


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## CWS4322

I confess, I don't make marinara sauce very often...I only make it when I am dealing with the tomatoes from 300+ plants. I like to add dehydrated and roasted tomatoes to it. I always include mushrooms--usually a combo of morels, porcini, button--rehydrated (save that broth). I use bay, basil, marjoram, oregano, Italian parsley, garlic, and shallots. I don't like carrots in my sauce. I freeze it and then add other things to it. I tend to not use it all up because I'm not big on pasta and don't eat a lot of bread, so don't use it to make pizza sauce either.


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## Roll_Bones

Dawgluver said:


> Wonderful mushroom.  One took up my whole sink!  They're great to freeze or dehydrate.  I'd never heard of it until a friend gave us the ones he found, no one in his family would eat it!
> I'll have to look for that show.



The show is about several unusual professions.  Here is a link.

Filthy Riches | National Geographic Channel



PHYLAL said:


> I have been making tomato sauce for more years than I care to remember.  I put up about 50 quarts every fall.  While I have one go-to sauce, a Fra Diavolo style, and about 12 pints of Puttanesca sauce for myself, I always try one or two batches of something new.  I have learned one thing over the years: If you ask 100 Italian chefs how to make the best tomato sauce, you will get 125 answers; most of them pretty good.  I think tomato sauce is one of the most forgiving foods that you can cook.  One time, many years ago, I googled “tomato sauce” and it found 20,200,000 sites.  I actually looked at the first 125 recipes, charted the ingredients and found….. are you ready for this….. 86 different ingredients.  I am sure that someone “loved” each and every one of those reciepes.
> Not only are there a myriad of ingredients, but about as many procedures.  Drain off water, add water (or beer, or broth), quick cook, long-slow simmer (for hours, even days).  One says, “add this early” another says “be sure to add it last”.  Sauté this, caramelize that, never use a blender, tomatoes must be seeded, do not worry about the seeds.  I read one recipe that emphatically declared, “NEVER put an onion in tomato sauce” while 99% of the others use onions.
> Even with my many years of experience, I have not come close to trying it all; and never will.  But it will be a glorious adventure trying.
> Bottom line: If you like it, it is the best in the world.



Well said and I agree with your points. Welcome to the forum!



CraigC said:


> If I make a tomato sauce for a specific purpose, then I'll use the ingredients called for. Otherwise, I'll stick to my mother sauce to be canned or put in the deep freezer.



As you know, I also make a mother sauce.  I use onions and garlic and other assorted herbs and vegetables. Sometimes I add finely chopped carrot and celery.  
Whats in your marinara?


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