# Healthier Hamburger... Boiled?



## GrillingFool (Jun 17, 2008)

I used to work at a little Italian restaurant.
The cook BOILED the hamburger she used in her
lasagna, spaghetti and other dishes. 
She said it was healthier because almost all of the 
fat is removed, and since she added spices and some
beef bullion, flavor was retained.

Does anyone here boil their hamburger instead of browning it?

Do you think it would be significantly lower in fat?


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## jennyema (Jun 17, 2008)

Recall that meat gets it's "meaty" flavor from the Maillard Reaction which only occurs during the browning process.

Boiling meat in boullion isn't going to give it that flavor.

Browning meat and then draining it well in a colander works very well to eliminate fat, IMO.


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## Andy M. (Jun 17, 2008)

Cooking meat in water is how you make broth.  When you make broth, you save the liquid, not the meat.  There's a reason for that.  All the meat's flavor is in the liquid.


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## TATTRAT (Jun 17, 2008)

Sounds like everything would taste like cheap Salisbury's steak after that.


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## GrillingFool (Jun 17, 2008)

Ah ha! Learned something new!

But... if the meat is being incorporated into something like spaghetti sauce, would it matter?  The sauce is the main flavor carrier, right?

Back to the restaurant.... this lady made the best lasagna and spaghetti I have
ever had in a restaurant, so the boiling didn't seem to negatively affect the dishes'
flavors.

Back to the original question..... do you think boiling vs browning would result in a 
significantly lower fat hamburger?


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## Constance (Jun 17, 2008)

I don't boil my burger, but I do sometimes leave it in the colander and drain the pasta over the top of it, which washes away any remaining grease.


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## TATTRAT (Jun 17, 2008)

In my opinion, for a sauce I guess it wouldn't matter much, might not be a "rich" or "meaty" in flavor, but to each their own.


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## GB (Jun 17, 2008)

GrillingFool said:


> do you think boiling vs browning would result in a
> significantly lower fat hamburger?


No I would not think so. Not significantly at least.


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## bowlingshirt (Jun 17, 2008)

TATTRAT said:


> Sounds like everything would taste like cheap Salisbury's steak after that.


 
That reminds me...I need to throw my hungry man dinner in the microwave.


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## Lizannd (Jun 17, 2008)

*I would have to go with the way the restaurant*

lady does it.  I watched a show on TV where they made a vegetable beef soup with ground beef and they boiled it briefly and drained it also.  It seemed so strange that I had to try it.  I almost couldn't believe it when I tried the soup.  It had the beefiest flavor.  Something I was never able to achieve when I browned the ground beef.  It seems contrary to what should happen but I would trust the lady and give it a try.


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## YT2095 (Jun 17, 2008)

for Some dishes, I simmer mine in beer (you could use water though) along with the onions and herbs & Spices and allow to cool, the fat solidifies at the top and is easily removed, However...
it`s then all reduced, to leave the minced beef with All its flavors intact.
nothing but the fat is removed from it that way 

perhaps that`s what she meant?


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## mcnerd (Jun 17, 2008)

Boiling meat is the only way it can be done when "canning" because you cannot use oil.  It is fine for any casserole recipe that calls for ground meat.

You can also brown your meat in oil as usual and then "rinse" it to remove all the grease and oil.


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## GotGarlic (Jun 17, 2008)

I don't think it's a good idea to remove ALL the fat. There are fat-soluble flavor compounds and vitamins that would be lost.


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## Andy M. (Jun 17, 2008)

GrillingFool said:


> Ah ha! Learned something new!
> 
> But... if the meat is being incorporated into something like spaghetti sauce, would it matter? The sauce is the main flavor carrier, right?
> 
> Back to the restaurant.... this lady made the best lasagna and spaghetti I have ever had in a restaurant, so the boiling didn't seem to negatively affect the dishes' flavors...


 


Why add meat to a sauce if not for the flavor?  Just for the protein?  For tasteless, fat free protein, use tofu.  

What you don't know is how much better the lasagna and spaghetti would taste if the hamburg had been browned instead of boiled.


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## YT2095 (Jun 17, 2008)

GotGarlic said:


> I don't think it's a good idea to remove ALL the fat. There are fat-soluble flavor compounds and vitamins that would be lost.



I agree, that`s why I use something Alcohol based, Problem solved


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## Maverick2272 (Jun 17, 2008)

My understanding was that boiling removed the fat and it was replaced by the spices in the water and this added flavor to the beef. I have never tried it, so I can't attest thru personal experience how it turns out, but I know several of the Czech restaurants in the area use this method and it turns out flavorful. I think also one of the burrito places I go to does it this way for their steak and tongue and beef burritos. I do know it turns out a juicy tasty burrito without being very greasy, but I wonder if there is more to it than just what I see at the end?

YT, I have heard of cooking things in alcohol before, but how does that work in what you are saying? I thought the alcohol just replaced the fat in the meat and also added the flavor of the alcohol, is there more to it than that? IE I boil brats in beer and onion before grilling them.


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## GotGarlic (Jun 17, 2008)

YT2095 said:


> I agree, that`s why I use something Alcohol based, Problem solved



In that case, using beer as you mentioned above, you lose the water-soluble vitamins.


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## GotGarlic (Jun 17, 2008)

Maverick2272 said:


> My understanding was that boiling removed the fat and it was replaced by the spices in the water and this added flavor to the beef. I have never tried it, so I can't attest thru personal experience how it turns out, but I know several of the Czech restaurants in the area use this method and it turns out flavorful. I think also one of the burrito places I go to does it this way for their steak and tongue and beef burritos. I do know it turns out a juicy tasty burrito without being very greasy, but I wonder if there is more to it than just what I see at the end?



I see the point, but beef flavor and spice flavor are not the same. For me, they complement each other. Also, as someone said earlier, you wouldn't get the Maillard reaction flavor that comes from browning the meat. I guess I would have to try it and see.


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## Maverick2272 (Jun 17, 2008)

GotGarlic said:


> I see the point, but beef flavor and spice flavor are not the same. For me, they complement each other. Also, as someone said earlier, you wouldn't get the Maillard reaction flavor that comes from browning the meat. I guess I would have to try it and see.



I agree, but what if they were boiling it first then browning it? I keep coming back to ground beef in my mind, IE the differences between 70% lean and 85% lean. It would seem boiling it would have the effect of reducing say 70% lean to 85% lean or something like that, but with flavor infused. I don't know, just musing out loud.

I think, like you, I am just gonna have to give it a try and see, maybe on some ground beef and just write it off as an experiment just in case it doesn't work out, LOL.


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## GotGarlic (Jun 17, 2008)

Maverick2272 said:


> I agree, but what if they were boiling it first then browning it? I keep coming back to ground beef in my mind, IE the differences between 70% lean and 85% lean. It would seem boiling it would have the effect of reducing say 70% lean to 85% lean or something like that, but with flavor infused. I don't know, just musing out loud.
> 
> I think, like you, I am just gonna have to give it a try and see, maybe on some ground beef and just write it off as an experiment just in case it doesn't work out, LOL.



Well, to brown it you would need to add some fat - would you like to brown your boiled beef in olive oil? I dunno, seems like a lot of trouble for not a lot of benefit.

Tell you what - you try it and let us know what you think


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## Maverick2272 (Jun 17, 2008)

GotGarlic said:


> Well, to brown it you would need to add some fat - would you like to brown your boiled beef in olive oil? I dunno, seems like a lot of trouble for not a lot of benefit.
> 
> Tell you what - you try it and let us know what you think



Me and my big mouth !

Now i gotta go get some ground beef...


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## gadzooks (Jun 17, 2008)

I guess I'm not very sophisticated. I grind my own beef, usually chuck, which is pretty lean, and brown it in olive oil. Leave all the fat on/in. Browning is a good time to caramelize onions,  add peppers, garlic, etc. Then I build my sauce on top of it. A little bit of arrowroot powder gets rid of any oil slicks. My neighbors back in Philadelphia, the Pileggi's, used to soak up the oil slick with Italian bread, a treat in itself.


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## Michael in FtW (Jun 17, 2008)

Well, humm ... boiling the ground beef might remove more fat than browning and draining ... but it also leaches out nutrients into the water that would not be lost in browning. So to answer the question in two parts:

Can you remove more fat by boiling? Possibly - although if you ground your own using a well trimmed cheaper grade and cut of beef, like select grade chuck roast - not much fat to start with.

Is it healthier? Only if you're talking about the fat content - but certainly not healthier when you consider the nutrients you are tossing out with the boiling water.

When you look at bullion, consume, or beef tea - the flavor and nutrients are in the water - the meat used to make it is then discarded because it has no nutritional value - like the vegetables you use to make stock.

Flavors are created during browning, Malliard browning reactions - reactions between natural sugars, fats, and proteins, which will never be created during boiling. The more flavorful stocks are created by roasting and browning the bones before using to make a stock.

If the cook was having to add bullion back to the boiled beef - that was just to add flavor back to otherwise tasteless and nutritionally deficient ground beef texture.

Oh - yeah - also considder that a healthy balanced diet needs some fat in it ... about 30% of the daily calories should be from fat.


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## Dave Hutchins (Jun 18, 2008)

I can not weigh in on this but hear me out.  In Praire du Chien Wisconsin there is a joint on the main drag that sells ""Water Fried Burgers"" and on week end you wait for over a hour to git one.. They take a ordinary grill and plug up the drain hole and add the burgers and then they smash them and add water and in the center of the grill they add a huge amount of sliced onions and let them cook  till well done and then they start to serve. You order them mit or mit out with onion or not. Across the river in Elkader they have the two mit wagon same thing and they all ways have a line waiting.  No here is the kicker they both make enough money during the summer and early fall to spend all winter down on the beach in Florida.  They also have one in Lacrosse Wisconsin.  It may only be a local thing but they sure taste good I know I have waited with the rest.  My DW and I consider it a real treat to git a couple and sit out in the sun and eat. Nutritious ?? But they sure tasted good.


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## attie (Jun 18, 2008)

> I used to work at a little Italian restaurant.
> The cook BOILED the hamburger she used in her
> lasagna, spaghetti and other dishes.
> She said it was healthier because almost all of the
> ...



Well-------------I gave in and just had to look at this thread ----- I was thinking " Who in their right mind would boil a mince Pattie before using it on a burger"
WRONG  so to me it's boiled mince.

I think most of us down here would boil it, scoop the floating fat off and continue on


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## attie (Jun 18, 2008)

Dave Hutchins said:


> I can not weigh in on this but hear me out.  In Praire du Chien Wisconsin there is a joint on the main drag that sells ""Water Fried Burgers"" and on week end you wait for over a hour to git one.. They take a ordinary grill and plug up the drain hole and add the burgers and then they smash them and add water and in the center of the grill they add a huge amount of sliced onions and let them cook  till well done and then they start to serve. You order them mit or mit out with onion or not. Across the river in Elkader they have the two mit wagon same thing and they all ways have a line waiting.  No here is the kicker they both make enough money during the summer and early fall to spend all winter down on the beach in Florida.  They also have one in Lacrosse Wisconsin.  It may only be a local thing but they sure taste good I know I have waited with the rest.  My DW and I consider it a real treat to git a couple and sit out in the sun and eat. Nutritious ?? But they sure tasted good.



Dave Hutchins, for such an Australian name you have such an American accent, what an enjoyable post. I once new a person who owned a fish and chip shop that opened at 4.30pm and closed at 7.30pm, they lined up down the footpath to get served but when it got to 7.30 he just shut the door in their faces and went home -- like your people, it's all about what people want and the quality of course.


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## sparrowgrass (Jun 18, 2008)

Why not brown your beef, add your liquid ingredients and skim (or chill and lift) the fat off later?  Best of both worlds.


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## GrillingFool (Jun 18, 2008)

Interesting responses!
I am going to have to test this, next time I make spaghetti or something. My brain says that browned hamburger probably doesn't bring a lot to the flavor plate of a dish, at least in dishes with lots of other flavors going on. 
In something where the meat is the main player, it might be less tasty boiled.
I guess that in many dishes, I consider burger to be more of a mouth feel "filler" ingredient, rather than a big flavor and nutrient provider. As in spaghetti... if it aint got hamburger, (for me) it isn't good spaghetti. Chili without burger, no way! etc etc

I also wonder just how much less fat you would end up with. But definitely worth an experiment!

I doubt I would ever become a burger boiler, because browning becomes bothersome without wonderful wasteful fat frying onions or other aromatics!


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## suziquzie (Jun 18, 2008)

I don't think I would even try it! 
Meat+fire=YUM


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## Maverick2272 (Jun 18, 2008)

Aww come on Suz, where's your sense of adventure!! LOL!


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## VeraBlue (Jun 19, 2008)

Sounds counterproductive to have to return the flavour of meat with bouillon when it was the cooking process itself that removed the flavour to begin with


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## GotGarlic (Jun 19, 2008)

GrillingFool said:


> Interesting responses!
> I am going to have to test this, next time I make spaghetti or something. My brain says that browned hamburger probably doesn't bring a lot to the flavor plate of a dish, at least in dishes with lots of other flavors going on.



I really disagree with this premise. There are certain ingredients and methods that add a "depth of flavor" to a dish that, while you may not taste the specific flavor individually, if the dish is lacking it, it just won't taste as good. I'm thinking of something like the chocolate in a mole sauce, or cinnamon in a tomato sauce. There isn't enough to make itself known, but the sauce tastes better with it.


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## mcnerd (Jun 19, 2008)

I would place boiled meat in the same category as Tofu.  You would not eat it by itself, but would use it with other foods where their flavors will be absorbed and dominate.  There are uses for boiled meat, but not as an everyday recipe item.


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## TATTRAT (Jun 19, 2008)

GrillingFool said:


> I am going to have to test this, next time I make spaghetti or something. My brain says that browned hamburger probably doesn't bring a lot to the flavor plate of a dish, at least in dishes with lots of other flavors going on.



What you are missing though, is once the meat is caramelized, and you add the other ingredients, like wet ingredients, it is like degalzing, and you are getting some of the meaty goodness/fond to come off the beef and add flavor to the dish. Where as simmering boiled beef in a sauce is doing nothing more then cooking the beef more. You are building the layers of flavor


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## GrillingFool (Jun 19, 2008)

Not really Tat.
That would only apply if you continued cooking in the same pan as you browned it in.
Which would certainly not be done if one were attempting to reduce the fat content 
of the dish....

Not that I disagree about the fond and flavor, however, for some dishes.


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## GotGarlic (Jun 19, 2008)

GrillingFool said:


> Not really Tat.
> That would only apply if you continued cooking in the same pan as you browned it in.
> Which would certainly not be done if one were attempting to reduce the fat content
> of the dish....



Why is that? I routinely drain off any fat after browning ground beef and continue the recipe in the same pan. This way, I get the flavor from the fond and reduce the amount of fat in the finished dish. And don't have to dirty another pan


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## GrillingFool (Jun 19, 2008)

OK, never mind.

The premise of my question was simple:
Can one boil their hamburger to achieve a lower fat meal?

Sure, it isn't a popular or apparently accepted methodology. I am VERY
aware of the flavor and taste aspects now. Sure, you lose something,
but you also gain.

Think outside the box, people!


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## GotGarlic (Jun 19, 2008)

GrillingFool said:


> OK, never mind.
> 
> The premise of my question was simple:
> Can one boil their hamburger to achieve a lower fat meal?
> ...



I thought about it and decided the entire idea didn't appeal to me. Reminds me too much of boiled beef, meaning roast, which to me is deliberate destruction of a really tasty food item. I think there are better ways to reduce the fat content of a meal, and that's by considering the entire meal, not just a single ingredient.

You also said:



GrillingFool said:


> ...since she added spices and some beef bullion, flavor was retained.
> 
> Does anyone here boil their hamburger instead of browning it?
> 
> Do you think it would be significantly lower in fat?



So the ensuing discussion is not just about fat content, but flavor and whether anyone here boils their beef.

If you're not concerned about the flavor, go with someone else's suggestion and use tofu.


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## Maverick2272 (Jun 19, 2008)

Tofu has flavor... I use it all the time in stuff. Why we picking on tofu now?? LOL.


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## GotGarlic (Jun 19, 2008)

Maverick2272 said:


> Tofu has flavor... I use it all the time in stuff. Why we picking on tofu now?? LOL.



I've used it before, too. To me, it's like a very bland cheese - it has no flavor till you add something to it, but it does pick up flavors easily.


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## gadzooks (Jun 19, 2008)

In fact, when I grind beef for burgers, if it is especially lean, I add olive oil to the meat and mix it then regrind, so it doesn't dry during grilling.


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## archiduc (Jun 20, 2008)

GrillingFool said:


> I used to work at a little Italian restaurant.
> The cook BOILED the hamburger she used in her
> lasagna, spaghetti and other dishes.
> She said it was healthier because almost all of the
> ...


 
Hi Grillingfool,
I feel as though I`ve just entered another universe!
Boil the hamburger to make lasagne, spaghetti and other dishes? Oh no, no , no!  Maybe, it`s because I live on the other side of the pond!

I would use mince/ground beef and sauté in a hot pan. Given the natural fat content of the meat and the desire to achieve a Maillard reaction of the beef proteins and natural sugars as they are browned, one does not need any additional fat, merely a hot pan, a fork and an agile hand to break up the meat as it browns. The browned meat is then added to the tomato base/salsa Napoletana and the ragu simmered for a couple of hours - and I do mean hours! Any fat on the surface can be removed by using a spoon or paper kitchen towels on the finished sauce.

Boiling the meat and then adding bouillon and spices simply adds to the cost for a restaurant by complicating the process and incurring costs for additional and, IMHO, unnecessary ingredients.

All the best,
Archiduc (slinking back to my universe )


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## mcnerd (Jun 20, 2008)

Yup, strange universe.  With all the social screaming for healthier food on the menu, a restaurant actually does it, and people scream that they do such a horrible thing.

Next thing you know, people will be complaining that plastic bags and plastic water bottles are no longer good for the environment.


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## Sedagive (Jun 20, 2008)

I've never heard of boiling hamburger before but I have steamed burgers and they were still very flavorful and I would guess lower in fat.


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## mcnerd (Jun 20, 2008)

You don't boil Hamburgers.  People boil ground beef to be used in dishes that use ground beef.  You can either rinse normally cooked ground beef to remove the grease or actually cook it in boiling water from the beginning.  The latter is used when large quantities of GB are being cooked.


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