# Chinese Food/Does the High Cooking Heat affect the taste?



## larry_stewart (Mar 5, 2016)

So Im in Philly this weekend, and i was strolling through the Reading Terminal Market ( anyone who is going to be in the Philly area, and love food should absolutely check this market out,  I used to live in philly and have been here more times than I can count).  I came across a Chinese place in there, and lucky for me, its an open kitchen.  Loving Chinese food, I shamelessly walked around so I had a good close look at the chef, watching his techniques and trying to make note of the ingredients he was using ( unlucky for me, I can't read Chinese, so I was unable to Identify what he was using or even the brands).

Anyway, just watching the flame coming out hitting that wok.  Its clearly more than anything I can produce in my home.

So, question is,  aside from having the right ingredients, does that high of a heat itself have its own affect on the actual taste?

So even if  I had the right ingredients, would it taste different, cooking it on a much lower heat than they use?  or would it not be that significant of a difference ??

Just curious

larry


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## Andy M. (Mar 6, 2016)

You're right, Larry.  No way you can duplicate the heat of the jet engine they use in Chinese restaurants.  In addition to the super hot burner, the cook often operates the burner with a foot pedal so he can control the heat on or off in an instant.  

That intense heat does effect the flavor of the finished dish.  There is a Chinese expression for that but I don't recall it.  If you duplicated the ingredients and quantities exactly and cooked the dish at home, it would be a bit different but there would be no doubt it was the same dish.

Consider buying a turkey fryer and using that burner for wok cooking.  That's about as close as you can practically come at home.


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## Steve Kroll (Mar 6, 2016)

Some of those wok restaurant ranges (not to be confused with "Walker, Texas Ranger" ) are rated for over 100,000 BTU, while most home gas stoves are in the 5000-12,000 BTU range.

I have one of these at home:
Dark Star® Burner 2.0 : Northern Brewer

I received it for free a few years ago as part of a promotion. So far I've only used it for canning. It works great and can bring 5 gallons of water to a boil in no time. I've never used it with a wok, but I wonder if it would be a good compromise solution.


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## Andy M. (Mar 6, 2016)

Steve Kroll said:


> ...I have one of these at home:
> Dark Star® Burner 2.0 : Northern Brewer...



Very similar to the turkey fryer burner I mentioned. Here's an example:

http://www.amazon.com/Bayou-Classic...78326&sr=8-1&keywords=burner+for+turkey+fryer

Holy cow!  This one has a 185,000 BTU capacity!


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## tenspeed (Mar 6, 2016)

Steve Kroll said:


> I have one of these at home:
> Dark Star® Burner 2.0 : Northern Brewer


  I have a similar burner, and have used it with a CI pan to make blackened fish.  Outdoors, of course.  I've also used it to steam 30 lobsters at once.

  Back in the 80's when blackened fish first became popular, a friend made the mistake of trying it indoors when the weather was cold and the windows were closed.  His wife was not very happy with the smoke filled house.


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## GotGarlic (Mar 6, 2016)

Andy M. said:


> You're right, Larry.  No way you can duplicate the heat of the jet engine they use in Chinese restaurants.  In addition to the super hot burner, the cook often operates the burner with a foot pedal so he can control the heat on or off in an instant.
> 
> That intense heat does effect the flavor of the finished dish.  There is a Chinese expression for that but I don't recall it.  If you duplicated the ingredients and quantities exactly and cooked the dish at home, it would be a bit different but there would be no doubt it was the same dish.
> 
> Consider buying a turkey fryer and using that burner for wok cooking.  That's about as close as you can practically come at home.



You're thinking of _wok hei_, the "breath of the wok." I just re-read this article from Serious Eats about achieving it at home. He says it can be done by cooking in a wok over a grill with a special insert that holds the wok steady. 

http://www.seriouseats.com/2012/06/the-food-lab-for-the-best-stir-fry-fire-up-the-grill.html


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## jennyema (Mar 6, 2016)

Andy M. said:


> That intense heat does effect the flavor of the finished dish.  There is a Chinese expression for that but I don't recall it.  If you duplicated the ingredients and quantities exactly and cooked the dish at home, it would be a bit different but there would be no doubt it was the same dish




It's called Wok Hey or something like it.  It's the taste from cooking in a seasoned wok using very high heat.


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## CharlieD (Mar 6, 2016)

Can we have a Like button? sometimes there is nothing to say but to give thumbs up.


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## larry_stewart (Mar 6, 2016)

I had a Chinese friend a hundred years ago, who made the comment to me about that the high heat alone is enough to make a noticeable difference in the taste.  And its not that I didn't believe him, I just never was in a situation where I could experiment and experience it first hand.


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## jd_1138 (Mar 6, 2016)

I was watching a documentary about China, and they had a meal at a farmhouse that dated from like 1750 (rustic log cabin type place, real neat).

Anyway, the original wok setup was sort of a brick oven where you stuff wood down below for the fire, and then the wok sits right on top of it with the flames right under it.  I bet that thing gets super hot too.

Wok cooking is super fast.  At the local place we go to -- Girard Wok, it's cool to see them cooking (kitchen is open to the counter).  They throw oil in it, veggies, chicken or whatever protein you ordered,  then scrape it around and it's done in no time.


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## dragnlaw (Feb 24, 2017)

reading some older posts...  and have an update on my stove and the wok subject here. 

Am super super pleased with my new stove having a double burner.  Meaning a  small ring flame in the centre of a bigger one. 

I have a cast iron wok and this burner gets it so much hotter than anything I've had before.  Including the metal woks with rings to rest them on the burners with the intention of containing and directing the heat.

I'm a happy camper!


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## larry_stewart (Feb 24, 2017)

I saw this thread pop up, i read the titled and said " what a great question" just to realized Im the one who posted it 

I got electric, so ill never get the heat i need.


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## jd_1138 (Feb 24, 2017)

Our local favorite Chinese restaurant uses super hot woks.  There's like huge flames coming out of the bottom.  It's gas powered, and you can see the flames jumping out when they remove the woks.  I think it imparts a sort of char flavor and the veggies get a little singed.  The high heat allows the food to cook really quickly, so that's probably another reason they use such high heat.  So it will cook faster.

I was watching a documentary about China, and they showed an 1800's kitchen in China.  The wok was placed basically atop a wood stove, and they'd make a nice big fire in there with wood and there was a round hole that the wok sat in.  So it's always been a super hot cooking method, I think.


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## medtran49 (Feb 24, 2017)

We're going to try it on the induction burner.  It supposedly will get close to 600 degrees at its highest wattage/temp.  Will report when we do.


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## caseydog (Feb 24, 2017)

jd_1138 said:


> I was watching a documentary about China, and they had a meal at a farmhouse that dated from like 1750 (rustic log cabin type place, real neat).
> 
> Anyway, the original wok setup was sort of a brick oven where you stuff wood down below for the fire, and then the wok sits right on top of it with the flames right under it.  I bet that thing gets super hot too.



I have a Weber Wok kit for my Weber Kettle grill. It kind of replicates what you describe. You can get a lot of BTUs from charcoal. The wok itself is cast iron, too, which loads up with heat.

I've only used it a couple of times, so far, but it has done a pretty good job. 

CD

.


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## medtran49 (Feb 24, 2017)

You can really bump up the heat short term with wood chunks.  Craig gets around 800 plus with wood in the BGE, maybe even a bit higher.


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## caseydog (Feb 24, 2017)

medtran49 said:


> You can really bump up the heat short term with wood chunks.  Craig gets around 800 plus with wood in the BGE, maybe even a bit higher.



Those Eggs can really generate some heat. They can also really empty your wallet. 

CD


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 24, 2017)

I cook Chinese all the time and don't need high heat under the wok at all.

Furthermore, you know they use rice wine in some of the dishes. In a hot wok that can produce enough alcohol vapor to ignite. Are you sure that's not what you are seeing?

Don't confuse the usual short cooking time of Asian food with high heat. I used to have a signature, "Chinese chef chop food for 2 hours, then cook for 10 minutes." The chopping produces small, bite sized bits of food that cook very quickly.

Related, chopsticks prevent scooping up big American full mouth bites of food, so each time you pick up food with chopsticks you get a slightly different mixture of the various pieces of the dish.

But really, high heat is not a requirement to cook good Chinese food, or in my experience it has been no problem producing restaurant grade food at home. I'm not saying your wok needs or doesn't need high heat, but nothing more than your average stove can produce.

Main difference probably is that they're in a hurry and higher heat cooks it sooner. Same as my Wolf cooktop. Produces a lot more heat than a typical stove so I can get up to heat quicker. Doesn't mean food on my Wolf is any better than your average stove.


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## medtran49 (Feb 25, 2017)

No, JD is right.  It looks like flames from a jet propane burner.  If JD saw the same show I did, there was also a modern kitchen and they sat the woks over holes on a coking surface, but you could see the flames down in there.

Our SIL has something similar to what Steve has.  That thing is scary.  Between the WHOOSH it makes when he lights it up and the heat radiating from it you can feel even 10' away, I don't even want to go near it!


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## caseydog (Feb 25, 2017)

Greg Who Cooks said:


> I cook Chinese all the time and don't need high heat under the wok at all.



From my own limited experience, I tend to agree. And, I don't think I could get the kind of results a skilled wok chef can get, even if I had 100,000 BTUs. The first time I used my Weber wok over scorching hot charcoal, I was a nervous wreck. It turned out pretty good, but I would bet that a 10-dollar-an-hour cook at the local Rice Kitchen could cook circles around me. 

My saying is, to become a good cook, you have to be willing to ruin a lot of groceries along the way. 

CD


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 25, 2017)

I use a non-stick pseudo-wok with a flat bottom over an ordinary gas burner.

My Asian food tastes as good to me as restaurant Asian. Often better. Maybe part of that is the boost you get from doing your own.

I once spent a whole month cooking Thai only, for the experience. I'm not just a casual Asian enthusiast. If I had to pick just one cuisine to eat for the rest of my life Asian would win hands down.


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## buckytom (Feb 26, 2017)

There was a thread about this probably 10 years ago or so. I think myself and "our" Iron Chef were the only ones who said that most dishes cooked in a wok were more judged on the sauce that was created in the wok rather than the temp that the ingredients were cooked at.

I've tried a few experiments with this with a few friends, one of which has worked in many Chinese restaurants over the years, therefore an expert at wok cooking. The rest of us were just experts at eating wokked food. 

I bought sauces that I had a local restaurant make on low temp in their woks (I coached the owner's son) then I cooked some stir fries in my wok on a regular old consumer stovetop.

No one could tell the difference between my stir fry and one made over a jet burner in the restaurant.

Ok, so, I doubt I could recreate all Chinese dishes successfully, especially fried rice, but my point is that it's more about the sauce than the wok temp in many wok dishes.


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## GA Home Cook (Feb 26, 2017)

I agree BT.  The problem I have with "Chinese" dishes is re-creating the sauces.  the ones at the local restaurant may not be original but its the ones we like.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 26, 2017)

I agree with that, too, bt. The oil also makes a big difference, imo. I grew up in Michigan and used corn oil for everything when I first started cooking on my own. Then, sometime in the early '90s, I bought a short, paperback book simply called "Stir-Fry Recipes." It has great tips and recipes that I've been using ever since. 

One of the tips was to use peanut oil. The first time I made stir-fry with peanut oil, I thought, this is what was missing. Now it tastes like real Chinese restaurant food. Having authentic ingredients for the sauce is just as important.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 26, 2017)

Steve Kroll said:


> Some of those wok restaurant ranges (not to be confused with "Walker, Texas Ranger" [emoji38]) are rated for over 100,000 BTU, while most home gas stoves are in the 5000-12,000 BTU range.



My gas Jenn-Air stove has a burner that is rated for 40,000 BTUs.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 26, 2017)

buckytom said:


> There was a thread about this probably 10 years ago or so. I think myself and "our" Iron Chef were the only ones who said that most dishes cooked in a wok were more judged on the sauce that was created in the wok rather than the temp that the ingredients were cooked at.


I agree with this and with the subsequent agreements.

You don't need mega-heat to cook authentic Asian food. In fact in all the Asian cooking shows I used to watch I never saw mega-heat mentioned once.

As you all do, I value my own personal experience over what I read on the Internet. I am capable of comparing restaurant food with my own cooking. High heat was not a factor.

If you want to be successful at cooking you have to believe your own experience and judgement. Otherwise you are just reading recipes and following them.

There is a lot going on with authentic Asian cooking but zillion degree woks is not one of them.


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## CharlieD (Feb 26, 2017)

I make pretty decent chinese food. And, yet, I am sure the high heat would make difference.


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## Steve Kroll (Feb 27, 2017)

I tend to believe what Kenji from Serious Eats says:

"Wanna know why your Chinese food never tastes as good as it does at the restaurant? It's not better ingredients, it's not ancient Chinese secrets, it's not even MSG (though all of those things can help). It's this: *ridiculously high heat*. And we're not talking Atlanta on a hot day high heat, we're talking campfire-set-by-a-Red-Dragon-who-came-straight-from-the-depths-of-Mount-Doom-if-Mount-Doom-were-on-the-sun hot."

He recommends using the grill (as Medtran mentioned above). Full article here:
The Food Lab: For the Best Stir-Fry, Fire Up the Grill | Serious Eats


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## GotGarlic (Feb 27, 2017)

Steve Kroll said:


> I tend to believe what Kenji from Serious Eats says:... [/url]



I usually do, too. However, he says that the flavor of stews does not change overnight in the fridge. I also disagree with that one.


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## Steve Kroll (Feb 27, 2017)

GotGarlic said:


> I usually do, too. However, he says that the flavor of stews does not change overnight in the fridge. I also disagree with that one.



Right. But we aren't talking about stew. And I happen to think he's correct about this.

Pretty much every Chinese restaurant in the world uses high heat. There's obviously a reason for it, other than getting food out the door quickly, or I doubt most of these little mom and pop places would spend the money on specialized equipment. I happen to believe the food in Chinese restaurants has a different texture than when the same food is prepared on your typical home stove. Home-cooked Chinese tends to have a mushier feel because it's steamed in the pan, as the article points out.

Another, albeit different, example is with Tandoor cooking. Sure, you can capture much of the same flavor at home without buying an expensive clay oven, but it's not exactly the same, because the cooking technique is not the same.


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## Steve Kroll (Feb 27, 2017)

Greg Who Cooks said:


> My Asian food tastes as good *to me* as restaurant Asian. Often better. Maybe part of that is the boost you get from doing your own.



Greg, I think you're onto something here. My guess is that if you had grown up in the Chinese culture (and maybe you did, I don't know) you would be able to taste the difference. 

I happen to think I cook pretty good Indian food, or at least it tastes good to me. For the last several years the Indians I work with have invited me to bring a dish to their annual Diwali potluck. I've talked to them, and most will say that I make pretty good Indian food - and like you, I feel it's as good or better than some of the other homemade dishes. But if I press them about the authenticity, they will usually just smile and say it's close. That signals to me that I do okay, but I'm sure my food doesn't conjure up memories of something they grew up with. Rather it's my own interpretation of something from their culture. Good, but not 100% authentic.


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## jennyema (Feb 27, 2017)

Steve Kroll said:


> Right. But we aren't talking about stew. And I happen to think he's correct about this.
> 
> Pretty much every Chinese restaurant in the world uses high heat. There's obviously a reason for it, other than getting food out the door quickly, or I doubt most of these little mom and pop places would spend the money on specialized equipment. I happen to believe the food in Chinese restaurants has a different texture than when the same food is prepared on your typical home stove. Home-cooked Chinese tends to have a mushier feel because it's steamed in the pan, as the article points out.
> 
> Another, albeit different, example is with Tandoor cooking. Sure, you can capture much of the same flavor at home without buying an expensive clay oven, but it's not exactly the same, because the cooking technique is not the same.




I totally agree with you and Kenji

Screaming high heat and Wok hei account for the difference in restaurant Chinese and home Chinese

Sauces too


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## GotGarlic (Feb 27, 2017)

Steve Kroll said:


> Right. But we aren't talking about stew. And I happen to think he's correct about this.



Well, obviously. I was talking about the fact that, while I like Kenji a lot, it's possible for him to be wrong. 



Steve Kroll said:


> Pretty much every Chinese restaurant in the world uses high heat. There's obviously a reason for it, other than getting food out the door quickly, or I doubt most of these little mom and pop places would spend the money on specialized equipment. I happen to believe the food in Chinese restaurants has a different texture than when the same food is prepared on your typical home stove. Home-cooked Chinese tends to have a mushier feel because it's steamed in the pan, as the article points out.



You've nailed the difference. I'm not interested in making stir-fry like a Chinese takeout restaurant does. I prefer my cooking to resemble the home cooking of the various cuisines I make. The wok was invented in part to solve the problem of not having a whole lot of fuel available, so high-heat cooking was not the goal and propane stoves were obviously not available hundreds of years ago. Efficiency was the goal. 

I can assure you that my stir fries are not steamed or mushy.


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## GotGarlic (Feb 27, 2017)

This is from a discussion on eGullet:


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 27, 2017)

Steve Kroll said:


> Another, albeit different, example is with Tandoor cooking. Sure, you can capture much of the same flavor at home without buying an expensive clay oven, but it's not exactly the same, because the cooking technique is not the same.


Yeah, you got that right. There is no way to produce tandoor quality recipes unless you have a tandoor. From time to time I toy with the idea of building one.

I do have a tandoori-inspired chicken recipe on my website, and it's pretty good, but it is not really tandoori.



Steve Kroll said:


> Greg, I think you're onto something here. My guess is that if you had grown up in the Chinese culture (and maybe you did, I don't know) you would be able to taste the difference.


I've lived my whole life in an area with a very high Asian population. It's my favorite cuisine. But I'm your ordinary roots in Europe type of American.


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## Andy M. (Feb 27, 2017)

I don't have a jet engine-type burner in my kitchen. I cook with a wok regularly. I get around the lack of high heat by cooking the ingredients in batches. Each veggie is quickly stir fried separately. Then the protein. Then it's all combined with the sauce. That way I can kept the wok hotter and avoid mushy stir fries.

Does it taste like a restaurant?  Yes, if I am get the sauce right.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 27, 2017)

I stage my ingredients according to cooking time, longest first. I also sometimes remove and set aside ingredients to be added again at a later stage.

For example, maybe I'll marinate my shrimp in mirin, rice wine, maybe rice vinegar, and then just before cooking roll the shrimp in cornstarch. Start the wok with some oil and quickly saute some garlic until limp then toss in the shrimp and cook them until a nice covering forms, then remove them. (Or maybe minced garlic is part of the marinade, probably more often the case.) I might even totally clean the wok before continuing (because garlic left in can burn in later stages of cooking). I'll continue cooking, almost always with some kind of liquid, and at some point (usually near to finishing) I'll add the shrimp back in.

I invent my methods as I go, I change them until they work. It's not unusual for me to cook a recipe 20 even 30 times before it's good enough for my website.

Note that the way I develop recipes is I Google similar recipes and take notes on perhaps 1-2 dozen variations, then I consider and write up a draft version. That's the first time I cook it. Then I refine the recipe going back to my notes on the original recipes and my notes each time I cook the recipe, until I eventually close in on my final recipe.

Sometimes a recipe just never makes it to a final version. But when it does it is my unique recipe, it didn't come from a cookbook or online, it is by no means traditional, but it is my original creation. All it has to do is taste good. It doesn't need a pedigree.


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## dragnlaw (Feb 27, 2017)

Greg!  That is exactly what I do but certainly in a mini-version.  I will google many recipes. I choose up to 10 and I make a chart of all their ingredients, then I sit and pick the ingredients that I like and in quantities that I like.  I also list the steps I want to take and the order of ingredients...   But no, I do not try the recipe 20 or 30 times.  If it doesn't work the first time it never gets done again. (well, almost never ) although if they are minor errors/additions/subtractions then I make a note of them to the recipe for the next time.

So yes, a lot of my recipes are mine.  I do have many that are good as is and I'm not ashamed or too proud to credit!

Unfortunately most of my friends just love my cooking and are not critical enough for my tastes.  Rarely do I agree a recipe I've "created" is *fantastic*! They just like being cooked for and of course rave about it.  So I don't really mind - it still feeds my ego .

So sometimes I would like to have someone with a more discerning palate (even though I would probably curl up in shame, but hopefully it would teach me to be more...  um... ____  could someone fill in a word here for me?... )


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## dragnlaw (Feb 27, 2017)

Betcha none of you knew that Chief Longwind of the North had a Canadian cousin.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 27, 2017)

dragnlaw said:


> Greg!  That is exactly what I do but certainly in a mini-version.  I will google many recipes. I choose up to 10 and I make a chart of all their ingredients, then I sit and pick the ingredients that I like and in quantities that I like.  I also list the steps I want to take and the order of ingredients...   But no, I do not try the recipe 20 or 30 times.  If it doesn't work the first time it never gets done again. (well, almost never ) although if they are minor errors/additions/subtractions then I make a note of them to the recipe for the next time.


I'm very interested in creating my own original recipes and recognize that like Thomas Edison said, "Genius is one percent inspiration, ninety nine percent perspiration." The genius comes from the Internet, the rest comes from beating my head on the wall until my recipe is perfect. I like the challenge of laying claim to a recipe being mine and mine alone.

I post them on my website, which I'm considering phasing out next renewal. I think of it as a public service, but as I age I seek a less complicated life.



dragnlaw said:


> So sometimes I would like to have someone with a more discerning palate (even though I would probably curl up in shame, but hopefully it would teach me to be more...  um... ____  could someone fill in a word here for me?... )



Lepidote? SRSLY at least give us a hint! 



dragnlaw said:


> Betcha none of you knew that Chief Longwind of the North had a Canadian cousin.



You mean Chef Longweed? 

Yes I go back that far on this forum.


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## dragnlaw (Feb 27, 2017)

Greg...  you're going to have to explain that one! 

... teach me to be more of a "rhododendron".....   ????   wha???


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## dragnlaw (Feb 27, 2017)

Thank you for quoting a relative (albeit distant).  My Grandfather was an Eedson. Supposedly a version of Edison's name that one of my great-aunts found in our lineage.  She was big into family trees.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 27, 2017)

dragnlaw said:


> Greg...  you're going to have to explain that one!
> 
> ... teach me to be more of a "rhododendron".....   ????   wha???


Also means "covered with scales, scaly leaves, or spots." It was my usual oddball humor. You know I'm incorrigible with my humor, right? 

I didn't understand your reference to ________. You didn't give enough info for me to fill in the blank.


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## dragnlaw (Feb 27, 2017)

I was trying not to be insulted that you were referring to my scales. 

As a dragon - it goes with the territory.  Of course I am covered with scales, being of the green lineage a lot of them are leaves, I prefer not to refer to the "spots" but the "few" that I have are considered beauty or beautiful age enhancements. So even though I am only 700+ ages old I am just coming into my most comely era. 
.
.
.
.
.
.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 27, 2017)

dragnlaw said:


> I was trying not to be insulted that you were referring to my scales.


Don't make me buy a fire extinguisher, dragon breath! 

Funny how my choice of words comes full unintended circle, considering I never connected your username to dragons. (Your avatar is very dark, and I suggest would benefit from 'Shopping it, giving it a bit more brightness and maybe some contrast if the brightness bleaches it out.)

I used to have a nutcase friend who decided to start calling people "lepidotes" even though that is not a noun that fits people. He defined it as, "scaly or covered with scurf." He thought he was funny, and we who knew him put up with it for a time.

I picked the word at random, yet you connected it full circle, and now it _erroneously_ appears that I consciously selected it based on your username or avatar. This is how misunderstandings occur. In this case evidently not traumatic, but it's still a good lesson on how a person can say something trying to be funny, and then due to unintended consequences, could be taken by somebody else as insulting (although I know you didn't take it that way).

Actually I'm not that clever.

This is one of the very annoying effects of text only communications, absent facial expression, absent body language, absent tone of voice, absent of other visual and audible and other non-verbal nuances that modify what was really intended by the speaker.

I hope we can all take away from my comments that misunderstandings often develop in text only communications simply because it is a limited form of communications that is often easily misunderstood.


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## dragnlaw (Feb 27, 2017)

Greg Who Cooks said:


> This is one of the very annoying effects of text only communications, absent facial expression, absent body language, absent tone of voice, absent of other visual and audible and other non-verbal nuances that modify what was really intended by the speaker.
> 
> ...'cause it is a limited form of communications that is often easily misunderstood.



Well, I 'sort of' disagree.. but it does take willingness and sometimes a bit of ingenuity to communicate that way. 

It is amazing just exactly how much CAN be communicated by text only. Emojicons (or whatever they're called) - italics - bold letters - capitalization's... can all show various expressions of nuances the body, voice tone, and visual intentions, etc. were intended.

Inserting an  or an  can turn what could have been an insulting reply into the light hearted jibe it was meant to be!

Read a good book lately?  Were you drawn in to what was going on? Did you feel their fear, surprise, shock, ecstasy, despair, ... yada  yada...  it was all conveyed with words.

Bottom line is ... you have to WANT to be understood in the frame that you intend....  awe...  jeeze... 
Guess I'll shut-up now before I get in too deep...


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 27, 2017)

Yeah but I never connected scales at all to your username or avatar. Yet it appears that my comment connected them. Then people assume I intended to connect them. Sometimes when that happens people get mad at me. They're getting mad at something that they connected that I never intended or connected myself. Yet I get the blame. It's happened before.

Out of all the ways your words can be interpreted, it's almost impossible to see them all as you post them.

It almost makes me want to write fiction and then people can just buy the damned novel or not, I can just ignore the reviews and merely look at the royalties. Actually I do want to try writing fiction. Don't worry, not on this forum!


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## buckytom (Feb 27, 2017)

I maintain that the sauce with which a wokked dish is served in is, save some that are dependent largely on the scorch factor,  what decides its greatness.

The wok hei is really secondary. Actually tertiary to the quality of the ingredients.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 27, 2017)

buckytom said:


> I maintain that the sauce with which a wokked dish is served in is, save some that are dependent largely on the scorch factor,  what decides its greatness.


I couldn't agree with you more! -- and in fact for a scorch factor example, the peanuts in Kung Pao. You didn't do it right if the peanuts aren't a bit scorched.

And irrespective of everything else, I believe in my own judgement on how my Asian cooking comes out. Actually I am overly self-critical. By the time I am satisfied, the dish is fantastic!

I've designed maybe about 2 dozen original recipes in my life. I'm not saying they are things nobody else has cooked, just that my ingredients and cooking directions are uniquely my own, created by me after cooking a recipe over and over, even dozens of times until it was just perfect.

Not Asian, but my mother used to cook a spoon bread recipe when I was a kid. (Officially, part of US Southern cuisine.) One day too late because my mother had gotten old I asked her for the recipe and she couldn't remember. I cooked I'm sure over 2 dozen variations before I found one that tasted exactly like she cooked when I was a kid.

Everybody here has a choice: you can be a cook or you can be a chef. Buy a cookbook and follow the directions and you are a cook. Only a chef can get an idea and create an original recipe based on their own concept. Even if they are recreating a concept. The process is the same. You know the ending but you don't know how to get there until you figure it out for yourself.

I can't tell you anything about authentic Asian cooking except what I've read in cookbooks and what I've eaten at admittedly Westernized Asian recipes in my part of US. But I can tell you that my best Asian recipes are as good and sometimes better than I can find in restaurants. But I didn't come from Asia and I'm certain I have no call to tell anybody what is traditional. I don't do traditional because I don't know traditional. All I know is what's good: that's what I cook. And I don't need a mega-hot wok to cook good Asian-style food.

Actually, watching Asian cooking TV shows, I just realized they weren't using any fancy radioactively-hot woks either. They used the same stuff I cook with. In fact their woks looked like the cheap stuff I see in bargain price stores. Just a plain iron wok over an ordinary stove.


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## dragnlaw (Feb 27, 2017)

Greg Who Cooks said:


> ... I never connected scales at all to your username or avatar. Yet it appears that my comment connected them. Then people assume I intended to connect them. They're getting mad at something that they connected that I never intended or connected myself. Yet I get the blame.
> 
> Out of all the ways your words can be interpreted, it's almost impossible to see them all as you post them.
> 
> It almost makes me want to write fiction



'connected scales' but that was really funny!  I had never heard the word before and had to 'google' it!  It was a perfect response! 

If someone assumes a connection and "gets angry?"...  well, you know what 'assume' means "ass of you and me"  but I always ignore the 'me' part because everyone knows I'm not an 'ass'...  (memo to self... lose weight as your ass is getting pretty damn ... large/big/humongus/disgusting/awkkk!)

So write that fiction - I would be honoured to proof read it.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 27, 2017)

It's happened to me. Things I said were misinterpreted because I missed the connotations, misunderstood the meaning or didn't make a connection that somebody else made. Enough said.

I wouldn't have ever heard the word I used if not for weird Paul who I knew decades ago, and I guess he too had a facility to remember weird words. In fact I may never again have any occasion to use that specific word.

Somehow a dragon having a fat ass seems entirely fitting and consistent to me. Can you imagine a skinny dragon? They call *that* a snake! Just feed him grain alcohol and tape a cigarette lighter to his snout. 

Glad to hear I'm not the only one with a "too big" problem. Perhaps we can share ideas and/or cheer one another along to our new, smaller selves.

First hint: join a gym. Next hint: (I already did #1) your gym won't do  any damned good unless you go there and work out. I'm working on that  one. I'll go there tomorrow. I always go there tomorrow. One of these times I'll have to go there today!


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## dragnlaw (Feb 28, 2017)




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## Andy M. (Feb 28, 2017)

I guess if you think about the original question, 'does high heat effect the taste'.  The answer has to be yes.  It certainly does with other foods.  It's why we cook steaks over high heat and eggs over low heat.


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## dragnlaw (Feb 28, 2017)

I agree Andy.  I should think it is fairly obvious. Look what happens to those eggs when you use too high a heat.  And you would hardly swallow that steak if it were cooked over low heat - it would be steamed!


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## GotGarlic (Feb 28, 2017)

Andy M. said:


> I guess if you think about the original question, 'does high heat effect the taste'.  The answer has to be yes.  It certainly does with other foods.  It's why we cook steaks over high heat and eggs over low heat.


Reading the entire original post, the question seems to me it was more like "is the extremely high heat used in restaurants necessary to make a good stir fry at home"? If that's true, then the answer, as with so much else, depends on what you want to achieve. 

As I said, I'm not interested in making Asian food that tastes like Chinese takeout, so for me, the answer is no. I get great results with my stainless steel sauté pan on my gas stove.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 28, 2017)

I was going to reply as GG did. My posts sort of changed to answering the question, "Is high heat necessary." I guess I can sum it up that it depends on each individual's opinion. It appears there is no concensus.

Anyway I don't have any way to create such high heat so the issue is moot for me.


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## Andy M. (Feb 28, 2017)

GotGarlic said:


> Reading the entire original post, the question seems to me it was more like "is the extremely high heat used in restaurants necessary to make a good stir fry at home"? If that's true, then the answer, as with so much else, depends on what you want to achieve.
> 
> As I said, I'm not interested in making Asian food that tastes like Chinese takeout, so for me, the answer is no. I get great results with my stainless steel sauté pan on my gas stove.



I took a more general look at the question.  Wok cooking over high heat vs. wok cooking over less heat.  No comparison of restaurant vs. home cooking.  Just high vs. not as high heat.  High heat cooking yields a different result.  No judgement of which is better.  Just that there is a difference.


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## dragnlaw (Feb 28, 2017)

larry_stewart said:


> Anyway, just watching the flame coming out hitting that wok.  Its clearly more than anything I can produce in my home.
> 
> So, question is,  aside from having the right ingredients, does that high of a heat itself have its own affect on the actual taste?
> 
> ...



there is a human equation involved here as well Larry. Not only the ingredients and quantities are involved but the dexterity and finesse with which it is added.  I believe the heat does change the taste if for no other reason than the length of time the ingredients are in contact with the heat. The motion of the wok or spatula that is being wielded is also a fact. 

Should that exact same chef/cook come to your house and cook that meal - with his own utensils and on your stove, his first attempts would not be the same. I'm pretty sure thou, that after a couple of tries he would quickly adjust his technique and produce a meal that no one (except maybe himself - mind over matter) would be able to tell the difference in.


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## Greg Who Cooks (Feb 28, 2017)

dragnlaw said:


> Should that exact same chef/cook come to your house and cook that meal - with his own utensils and on your stove, his first attempts would not be the same. I'm pretty sure though, that after a couple of tries he would quickly adjust his technique and produce a meal that no one (except maybe himself - mind over matter) would be able to tell the difference in.


There you go. Agreeing with me. Might not be exactly the same but close. And anyway how many of us have any hope of owning a wok with a 3 foot blowtorch under it?

When you cook at home you gotta go with what you got. And the good part, if you like your cooking then you're happy.

I doubt there is any serious member of this forum who doesn't like their own cooking except maybe a few novices who will achieve that status one day if they keep trying.


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## medtran49 (Feb 28, 2017)

You know what, I have never cooked eggs over low heat.  I've always cooked scrambled eggs over as high as heat as possible, stirring constantly, and they ALWAYS, come out light, fluffy/puffy, and moist.  There may be a little liquid coming out of them, but I just soak that up with some paper towels.  I mix the eggs with a bit of milk or cream, salt, and scramble them in a pan on heat heat with a little butter (not allowed to brown, just to start to sizzle).  The eggs I've seen cooked over low heat don't look nearly as appetizing as what I make.


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## Andy M. (Feb 28, 2017)

medtran49 said:


> You know what, I have never cooked eggs over low heat.  I've always cooked scrambled eggs over as high as heat as possible, stirring constantly, and they ALWAYS, come out light, fluffy/puffy, and moist.  There may be a little liquid coming out of them, but I just soak that up with some paper towels.  I mix the eggs with a bit of milk or cream, salt, and scramble them in a pan on heat heat with a little butter (not allowed to brown, just to start to sizzle).  The eggs I've seen cooked over low heat don't look nearly as appetizing as what I make.





The liquid you have to soak up with some paper towels is the result of the proteins in the eggs getting too hot.


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## Cheryl J (Feb 28, 2017)

Andy M. said:


> The liquid you have to soak up with some paper towels is the result of the proteins in the eggs getting too hot.


 
Agreed, Andy.  I start scrambled eggs on med in a bit of butter, then lower the heat and stir gently when they start to set, but not too much stirring.  My idea of perfect scrambled eggs is to have somewhat large chunks, delicate, and still shiny when they reach my plate.


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## Caslon (Feb 28, 2017)

I just want to add that when I fry up asian food, it's more flavorful when it has a chance to cool down a little.


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## medtran49 (Mar 1, 2017)

Andy M. said:


> The liquid you have to soak up with some paper towels is the result of the proteins in the eggs getting too hot.


 

I am aware, that's why I mentioned it.  However, my eggs are still more moist than any cooked the low heat way that I've ever had, plus they are a heck of a lot fluffier.


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