# Soy sauce



## CharlieD (Jan 1, 2008)

I made Chinese last night. Usually I use La Choy brand for the soy sauce when I make fried rice and stir fry beef. Yesterday I used Kikkoman brand. Wow, what a difference. I will never ever buy that brand anymore. I couldn't eat anything.


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## Alix (Jan 1, 2008)

Takes some getting used to if you have been using another brand. I don't know La Choy brand, but I bet it isn't a fermented soy sauce. Kikkoman is fermented and the taste is different. I used to feel as you do Charlie, but I kept trying it and now I actually prefer Kikkoman. LOL. We still have China Lily for Madeleine, but the rest of us use Kikkoman more often than not.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jan 1, 2008)

And that's why there are so many different brands.  La Choy, if I remember correclty, is made from hydrolized vegetable protien, while Kikoman is made by brewing soy beans.  Kikoman makes a true soy sauce.  

As you said, the flavors are profoundly different.  You prefer the La Choy, while I love the Kidoman.  And that's perfect.  All of us react to different flavors in different ways.  I am happy that you have found a soy sauce that you really like.  And I'm glad I've found a readily available soy sauce that I really like.  It keeps both companies going.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## CharlieD (Jan 1, 2008)

Actually I also tasted Lee Kum Kee brand and it is awesome. Made in Hong Kong stuff.

And as far as getting used to it, I probably will not. I'd rather buy the stuff that I like rather than adopt to something I hated.

And La Choy Products - Sauces is a really nice brand. Has a lot of diferent sauces, if you can find it try it.


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## CharlieD (Jan 1, 2008)

Goodweed of the North said:


> And that's why there are so many different brands. La Choy, if I remember correclty, is made from hydrolized vegetable protien, while Kikoman is made by brewing soy beans. Kikoman makes a true soy sauce.
> 
> As you said, the flavors are profoundly different. You prefer the La Choy, while I love the Kidoman. And that's perfect. All of us react to different flavors in different ways. I am happy that you have found a soy sauce that you really like. And I'm glad I've found a readily available soy sauce that I really like. It keeps both companies going.
> 
> Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


 
Interesting, I did not know that. Thank you for info. 

I'll stick to fake stuf then.


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## Alix (Jan 1, 2008)

Like Goodweed says, different tastes appeal to different people. I'm just one of those folks who hates to waste stuff. (and I think you are too Charlie) So I know if I bought a bottle of something I didn't like the taste of it would really gripe me to throw it out. Just wanted to let you know that I've been in your shoes, and grew to like that flavour after a while. 

Its so shocking to taste a different flavour when you are expecting something you are accustomed to.


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## Bilby (Jan 2, 2008)

I have three different soy sauces and they are all... Kikkoman!  Yakuta is a nice one in my opinion too.  Lee Kum Kee does a nice sweet and sour. Haven't tried their soy sauce.


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## Walt Bulander (Jan 2, 2008)

We use tamari, or sometimes, fish sauce. I love both, but I'm salt restricted, so have to be careful.

Check out "soy sauce" on Wikipedia. Wow! I never knew there were so many kinds. Hawaiian??


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## tupperware (Jan 2, 2008)

Try Hinze dark soy.

But, buy it in an Asian Store the kind with the label in Chinese.


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## BBQ Mikey (Jan 2, 2008)

There is a profound difference between soys.

There are 3 major groups

Light Soy (ex. Kikoman) Which is brewed and tastes light with a bite

Dark Soy (ex. La Choy) Which is dark and hydrolyzed as someone mentioned. Hearty and a different type of sweet.

Mixed Soy (ex. Asian) Which is a mixture, sometimes incorporating other flavors such as Sweet Ginger Soy or Teriyaki Soy.


I find the light soy is good on protein dishes such as chicken, and in sauces. Dark Soy I personally prefer on rices and in some hearty sauces.
Mixed soy is great for certain dishes as well, I highly reccommend Ginger Soy.
Alot of "authentic" soys seem to be darker, but thats only in NY and Philadelphia where I shop in Chinatowns.  Im sure it varies accross the world.


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## chave982 (Jan 2, 2008)

I subsribe to CooksIllustrated.com, and they did a review on Soy Sauce:http://tastetests.cooksillustrated.com/tasting.asp?tastingid=508. They rated Kikkoman as one of the best, and La Choy as the worst.


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## BBQ Mikey (Jan 2, 2008)

I prefer brewed soy myself, but to each their own.


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## ErikC (Jan 2, 2008)

Watkins has several flavored soy sauces that I enjoy on various dishes. They are too strongly flavored to cook with, I suspect, but as something to dash into a rice dish or a soup they are great.


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## jennyema (Jan 2, 2008)

BBQ Mikey said:


> There is a profound difference between soys.
> 
> There are 3 major groups
> 
> ...


 

There are a lot more than 3 types, actually and La Choy isn't a dark soy sauce.

Dark soy is thicker and has had sugar or molasses added to it.

La Choy is just a cheaper brand of "light" soy sauce.  IMO, all you taste is salt with it.

Personally I prefer *Kikkoman* *low sodium* and *Healthy Boy brand*.


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## BreezyCooking (Jan 2, 2008)

I have to agree with "Cooks Illustrated" - La Choy (& Chun King) products have to be the worst.  The few I've tried have an "off", almost chemical taste, & contain ingredients both unnecessary nor authentic.  Does anyone remember the old La Choy tv jingle?  "La Choy makes Chinese food - swing, American"?  They've been around since when?  The 1950's?  Unfortunately, their products haven't changed much since then.  One would have thought that with the major interest over the years in Asian cooking, they would have invested in better quality.

Kikkoman is a terrific light soy sauce, & one I buy by the gallon jug from CostCo for everyday use - primarily for Japanese, Thai, Korean, etc., cooking.  My "dark", "black", & "mushroom" soys (as well as nam pla (fish sauce) I buy in quart-size glass bottles from Asian markets & use fairly exclusively for Chinese dishes.

But - if you don't like something, you don't like it.  And personal preference is a major player in the ingredients we use, which is as it should be.


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## jpmcgrew (Jan 2, 2008)

Bilby said:


> I have three different soy sauces and they are all... Kikkoman! Yakuta is a nice one in my opinion too. Lee Kum Kee does a nice sweet and sour. Haven't tried their soy sauce.


I can only get the Yakuta light and I love it very nice flavor


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## CharlieD (Jan 2, 2008)

chave982 said:


> I subsribe to CooksIllustrated.com, and they did a review on Soy Sauce:http://tastetests.cooksillustrated.com/tasting.asp?tastingid=508. They rated Kikkoman as one of the best, and La Choy as the worst.


 

Go figure...

First of all, to read that article one has to be a member, so maybe you can copy and PM it to me, please. 

Second of all, I just did not like taste of Kikkoman and I do not care what kind of rating it got.

Third of all, but by far not the least in my book, I keep kosher and it is very important factor. La Choy has one of the best kosher supervision teams checking them out. Kikkoman has one that I would consider if nothing else was available, but would not make a staple in my house at all. In the end there are so many things to consider when you buy a product, any product, that even the taste is not always a factor that really matters.


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## Alix (Jan 2, 2008)

Oooo, I never even thought about the kosher thing Charlie. Is it hard to find stuff that is usable when you are making "ethnic" foods?


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## CharlieD (Jan 2, 2008)

Alix, it is almost imposible, in my neck of the woods. It is much easier in Big cities like NY, Los Angeles, Chicago, Miami, etc. But in all the truth it is hard to find many other things here compare to big cities. It is only recently, last 10 years or so that you could find decent Ruccian foods. Before that we would make special trips to Chicago or NY to buy something. So MN is really behind and not in the fashion only but in many other things too. We do have Mayo clinick though...


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## Alix (Jan 2, 2008)

You must have to do a lot of online shopping then. (And the Mayo clinic is only good if you get REALLY sick.)


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## CharlieD (Jan 2, 2008)

It's only good when you are not sick and do not have to go there at all.

On line shopping doesn't do much good either.


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## BBQ Mikey (Jan 2, 2008)

jennyema said:


> There are a lot more than 3 types, actually and La Choy isn't a dark soy sauce.
> 
> Dark soy is thicker and has had sugar or molasses added to it.
> 
> ...


 
Ok.  Why don't you elaborate on some of the other types.  I mentioned the third "type" isn't really true soy at all, its a mixture or blend.  There are millions of diff. soys out there, I was trying to keep it simple.  La Choy is one of my least favorite soys, but to call it light is rediculous.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jan 2, 2008)

I still say that personal preference and the way your individual taste buds react to food is the only requirement.  I am just as happy eating a potted meat sandwich as I am eating a great liver pate'.  One is very pricey and eaten by the "in" crowd, while the former is eaten by those who can hardly afford a free glass of water.  Makes no difference to me.  I like the flavor and texture of both, and so will continue to eat both.

I prefer Kikoman for the same reason I prefer Tobasco Sauce.  It tastes good to me.

And CharlieD, I can relate to your plight.  In Upper Peninsula Michigan, especially Eastern Upper Peninsula Michigan, it can be difficult finding so many different foods and flavorings, and when you do find the odd gem, it's going to be pricey.

I do have to ask you though, do you prefer the Helman's Mayo clinic, or the Miracle Whip clinic.  Personally, I prefer the Helmans Mayo clinic of most sandwiches, but the Miracle Whip clinic for BLT's.

Oh, and one other thing, I still think my pancakes are better than yours.

Seeeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Dave Hutchins (Jan 2, 2008)

Having lived in Japan for two years and I have dined all over the country I much prefer Kikoman, and Lee kum chee mushroom and dark soy. La Choy is not even in the game


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## Bilby (Jan 3, 2008)

BBQ Mikey said:


> Alot of "authentic" soys seem to be darker, but thats only in NY and Philadelphia where I shop in Chinatowns. Im sure it varies accross the world.


While I am in no way an authority on soy sauces in any shape or form, all the soy sauces that I have seen that are just normal/straight soy sauce have been of a similar dark hue. There are variances within the colours of the light soys or the blends, etc but I guess as all of the Asian restaurants I have been to here all seem to use either Kikkoman or Yakuta (and that has only been in Japanese restaurants), it may be a bit more standardised here in Perth. Possibly due to our proximity to Asia or possibly to a lack of choice.  Do not know....


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## BBQ Mikey (Jan 3, 2008)

Theres even white soy sauce.

It appears to me that the lighter the soy, the better.  Dark soy I still use for various sauces and fried rice.

I use Kikoman or an Asian Foods Ginger Soy.


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## CharlieD (Jan 3, 2008)

I have just recently, couple of weeks, discovered Lee Kum Chee soy sauce and it is great, and I love it.

As far as the pancakes goes mine are obviously better. 

But the reason we should not argue about that is because how can you compare a typical American white bread to a loaf of heavy Ukrainian Black bread. They are worlds (no pan intended) a part.


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## jpmcgrew (Jan 3, 2008)

jpmcgrew said:


> I can only get the Yakuta light and I love it very nice flavor


Oops, its not Yakuta its called Yamasa made since 1645


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## jennyema (Jan 3, 2008)

BBQ Mikey said:


> Ok. Why don't you elaborate on some of the other types. I mentioned the third "type" isn't really true soy at all, its a mixture or blend. There are millions of diff. soys out there, I was trying to keep it simple. La Choy is one of my least favorite soys, but to call it light is rediculous.


 

La Choy is of the type that you referred to as "light." It is not in the class of soy sauces that are dark, thick and have added sugar.

A good asian market will carry a wide a variety of types and brands, especially if the store carries Japanese soy sauces, as there are a great many types of them.

These are two I use very often.  Along with Kikkoman low sodium.  They have great taste.


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## BBQ Mikey (Jan 3, 2008)

jennyema said:


> La Choy is of the type that you referred to as "light." It is not in the class of soy sauces that are dark, thick and have added sugar.
> 
> A good asian market will carry a wide a variety of types and brands, especially if the store carries Japanese soy sauces, as there are a great many types of them.
> 
> These are two I use very often. Along with Kikkoman low sodium. They have great taste.


 
Looks like a light one and a dark one.  i bet they _are_ good.


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## jennyema (Jan 3, 2008)

BBQ Mikey said:


> Looks like a light one and a dark one. i bet they _are_ good.


 
Yep a light and a dark.  The dark is thick and sweet.

Since it's pretty cheap, I went on a soy sauce taste testing adventure a few years back and bought about 10 kinds at the Super 88.  Liked this brand the best.  I like taste without a lot of salt.  And I guess my taste runs to Thai soy sauce, though I do like Kikkoman which is Japanese.

I did the same for fish sauce a few months back.  I couldn't tell that much of a difference, especially tasting them straight up.


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## BreezyCooking (Jan 3, 2008)

None of the "dark" or "black" soy sauces I've purchased from Asian markets were ever "thick" or "sweet", & none have had any sugar or molasses as an ingredient.

Authentic dark or black soy is simply brewed for a longer period of time than light soy - just like coffee.  It shouldn't be "sweet" or have any additives.  Any soys that are thick & sweet are different than plain dark or black soy.

If any of the recipes I've made that specify dark or black soy were made with something thick/sweet, they'd be downright awful.


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## jennyema (Jan 3, 2008)

BreezyCooking said:


> None of the "dark" or "black" soy sauces I've purchased from Asian markets were ever "thick" or "sweet", & none have had any sugar or molasses as an ingredient.
> 
> Authentic dark or black soy is simply brewed for a longer period of time than light soy - just like coffee. It shouldn't be "sweet" or have any additives. Any soys that are thick & sweet are different than plain dark or black soy.
> 
> If any of the recipes I've made that specify dark or black soy were made with something thick/sweet, they'd be downright awful.


 

I beg to differ on several acounts.  Chinese "black," or "dark" soy sauces, as well as their Thai cousins are def. thicker and somwhat sweeter.  They are not sweet sauces, per se, but have a note of sweetness their light counterparts don't have.  Some, but not all have molasses added.  They are indeed "authentic,' IMO.

I am not sure what recipes you are using which call for black/dark soy sauce, but I have never used a recipe where the sweeter, thicker stuff was not the right ingredient to be using.


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## Bilby (Jan 3, 2008)

Kecup Manis is usually Indonesian soy sauce which is thicker and sweeter and the standard Chinese/Japanese soys. Using the different soys in a dish would make a difference but in no way should it make it bad whichever one you used.  Just a bit different.  It's like using different ketchups on a sausage - one might be sweeter and thicker than another sauce but still tastes good on the snag!!

This is from another forum...
Kecup Manis - EatingWA Forums (only p1 is really relevant to this discussion)


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## suziquzie (Jan 4, 2008)

I like the Kikko, we have alot of Asian Markets here, so when we go down to the city to see Grandparents (about 40 min) I try to stock up on my sauces. We used to live within a block of 6 of them when we lived down there. You give up things in the name of wide open spaces!  
Mayo, Hellman's not Kraft. 
DH likes Miracle Whip, I'm not a fan. 
I cannot comment on anyone's pancakes.


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## ocgirlie (Jan 4, 2008)

I've used La Choy and Kikkoman and prefer Kikkoman. I think I will experiment with other kinds just to see what I like.


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## CharlieD (Jan 5, 2008)

Who was asking me about mayo? I buy Kraft and again mostly because it has better kosher supervision.


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## AllenOK (Jan 6, 2008)

I have three bottles of soy in my pantry.  La Choy, Kikkoman, and Golden Mountain Brand Soy.  PeppA, my other half, uses the La Choy for flavor and coloring whenever she does Pepper Steak (bleck!  Use beef stock instead!).  I keep the Kikkoman around for the rare times I do Lo Mein or Fried Rice on weekends.  I also bought the Golden Mountain, as we used that up in MI for a salad dressing.  I've found that cooking with it is a real experience, as it's saltier than Kikkoman.  The next time I get up to the Asian grocery store I go to (25 miles away now), I may have to see if they carry Lee Kum Kee Soy.  I do know they carry many other sauces made by LKK, and I do like those.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jan 6, 2008)

CharlieD said:


> Who was asking me about mayo? I buy Kraft and again mostly because it has better kosher supervision.



I was teasing you about weather you liked the Mayo-Clinic spread, or the Miracle-Whip-Clinic spread, in reference to your state having the Mayo Clinic.  Yeh, I knew it was a bad pun.  But I like bad puns.

Seeeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## expatgirl (Jan 7, 2008)

I like bad puns, too, GWN!! In fact I'm famous for them....--my hubby likes to tease that I'm half right...the best soy sauces I've bought have been from our local Asian groceries--they cost a lot less and taste  a whole lot better than Kikkoman.........


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## CharlieD (Jan 7, 2008)

My bad, did not get the joke.


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## simpleisgood (Jan 9, 2008)

First let me tell you that I am Chinese.  I grew up eating homemade Chinese food a lot.  All my grandparents were from China and lived locally, and both sets opened and ran Chinese restaurants for many years.  

Now you may think that the best place to get great soy sauce is the Asian markets.  WRONG!!!.  I buy my soy sauce at the local natural food co-op, even though there is a large Asian community here and there many very good Asian markets.  

Let me preface my next statement by saying that I respect everyone's right to like what they want.  I know what I like, you know what you like.  That said, to use a cheesy analogy, La Choy is like American Cheese,  Kikkoman is like a standard block of Cheddar at the local market and the good stuff like I get would be comparable to Eppoisses, Societe' Bee or Fiscallini (sp?) (you cheese aficionados KNOW what I mean).

The brand I am using right now is San-J Organic Shoyu.  Although not full top shelf, it still light years ahead of Kikkoman.  The really good ones are very expensive and are best appreciated as a dipping sauce base.


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## CharlieD (Jan 9, 2008)

simpleisgood said:


> ...
> 
> The brand I am using right now is San-J Organic Shoyu...


 
Again, to each his own. I have couple of bottles of San-J at home, and at lest as fat as soy sauce goes i do not like it. Go figure.


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## simpleisgood (Jan 9, 2008)

I should have mentioned this above.  If you want to try a really good brand try Ohsawa.  It is named after Georges Ohsawa, the father of macrobiotics.  They have several varieties, of which I have only tried one, the "Lima", named after Georges' wife. They don't carry it at the co-op (Lima) so I don't know if it still in production.

We got some when we were treating my mothers cancer with a macrobiotic diet and when we first bought it I couldn't believe it could possibly be worth the $6 for a tiny bottle comparable to the size they have on tables at Chinese restaurants.  Trying it was a revelation.  The delicacy and complexity was amazing.

I would probably use it more, but it cost about $20 a pint.


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## David Cottrell (Jan 9, 2008)

*soy sauce*

Interesting thread eventhough I don't even pay any attention to soy sauce and go lightly when I do - too much salt. Goodweed and Charlie, I shall bring an end to your pancake debate as supreme judge! Mind you I can make a good Ukrainian blintz with a very nice Ukrainian recipe cherry filling - a stack of which I saw quickly disappear one after the other into the mouth of a Ukrainian teenager. 

I shall faithfully make both recipes and let you know. May the best pancake win.


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## Kristenskats (Jan 11, 2008)

Mmm soy sauce.  It's really too bad it has such high sodium or I'd cook with it more often.  I make a lovely spicy broccoli chicken dish that uses Lee Kum Kee Black Bean Sauce - it's thick and comes in a jar.  It's not really saucy in the recipe, but more of a coating.  Delicious with cashews.  My husband will add kikkoman to his liking.


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## jpmcgrew (Jan 11, 2008)

Kristenskats said:


> Mmm soy sauce. It's really too bad it has such high sodium or I'd cook with it more often. I make a lovely spicy broccoli chicken dish that uses Lee Kum Kee Black Bean Sauce - it's thick and comes in a jar. It's not really saucy in the recipe, but more of a coating. Delicious with cashews. My husband will add kikkoman to his liking.


I love that brand ofg black bean sauce its really good


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