# Cooking Poll



## Guest (Oct 22, 2005)

Do you, or would you cook/bbq poultry over other meats, i.e. beef, lamb, pork.

This is an anonymous poll unless you wish to add your comments below.  Comments are welcome but not necessary ~ The reason(s) for your choice, however, will help everyone else here understand why people would or would not cook/bbq poultry over another type of meat.  I realize that some people might vote differently, depending on the cook ~ Please take that into consideration when you poll and post your comments/reasons below.

I am placing this poll in the General BBQ Forum so that everyone can read it.  If the BOSS wants to move it, of course that’s his prerogative.

This is not a personal attack against anyone ~ Simply a poll.  A recent thread that has spawned this poll became quite vocal and somewhat volatile ~ I hope and pray that everyone will vote and/or respond honestly without fear of reprisal.

Let’s see how civil the membership can be.

So...

Do you/would you cook poultry over another type of meat?


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2005)

I do not and would not cook/bbq poultry over any other meat because:

1:  While the USDA says that poultry is cooked at 180° and safe at 160°, I don’t know for sure that all of the raw juices (those that dripped at less than 160°) have been sufficiently cooked.

2:  On every other BBQ Board I frequent, it is highly recommended that you do not cook poultry over any other type of meat because of the potential of cross contamination.  Do the search ~ I did.

3:  My kids and family eat my BBQ ~ I wouldn’t want to take the chance.


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## DaleP (Oct 22, 2005)

I voted no because better safe than sorry until further notice.


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## zilla (Oct 22, 2005)

All ZILLA'S Love Chicken. It is their favorite food. Their second favorite is Ice cream!


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## LarryWolfe (Oct 22, 2005)

The Joker said:
			
		

> Do you, or would you cook/bbq poultry over other meats, i.e. beef, lamb, pork.
> 
> This is an anonymous poll unless you wish to add your comments below.  Comments are welcome but not necessary ~ The reason(s) for your choice, however, will help everyone else here understand why people would or would not cook/bbq poultry over another type of meat.  I realize that some people might vote differently, depending on the cook ~ Please take that into consideration when you poll and post your comments/reasons below.
> 
> ...



The bottomline comes down to common sense Bill.  I stated my rationale in my post.  Nothing else needs to be said.  You already know my answer to the poll question.  Whether you think this poll is personal or not, it is.  I too have kids and would not put their health in danger by feeding them food that was not properly cooked.  The ribs and chicken were put on at the exact same time.  The chicken cooked for about 2.5-3 hours and was pulled off at 180*.  The ribs cooked for 6 hours, 4 in the smoke, 1 in foil and another hour to firm up.  WTF would you be worried about?

If the chicken was put on later in the cook, then there would be a problem.  The way it was done, there's nothing to worry about!


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2005)

Thank you for keeping it civil.


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## Bruce B (Oct 23, 2005)

I think the question is unfair and does not properly lay out the circumstances which led to the poll in the first place.

Ask a proper question and I may participate.


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## Uncle Al (Oct 23, 2005)

I am sure that there are lots o' folks out in the world that don't know squat about food safety. The "not putting poultry over other meats" issue is aimed primarily at them. 

One more thing that I think is important to know is that although the bacteria is killed at approx. 140°, the toxins produced by the bacteria, which are really the culprits that make you sick, are still present and dangerous.

Al


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## Kloset BBQR (Oct 23, 2005)

Toxins are good for you. If you survive it makes your immune system stronger.  We're turning into a nation full of pussies and germaphobes trying to avoid getting sick.  I say build up your tolerances. Take some chances guys.


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## zilla (Oct 23, 2005)

Uncle Al said:
			
		

> I am sure that there are lots o' folks out in the world that don't know squat about food safety. The "not putting poultry over other meats" issue is aimed primarily at them.
> 
> One more thing that I think is important to know is that although the bacteria is killed at approx. 140°, the toxins produced by the bacteria, which are really the culprits that make you sick, are still present and dangerous.
> 
> Al



Al, While I agree that most folks do not know enough about food safety I’m afraid I have to disagree with you on this point. If as you say the bacteria from the chicken has produced toxins at any point during cooking then none of the chicken would be safe to eat. At the point of removing the chicken from the grill the same amount of toxins would be present on the chicken as the ribs. Thus rendering the chicken unsafe.

  Consider this. If there is some bacteria on the fresh chicken, it is on the surface and not inside the meat. This is also why ground beef is dangerous to eat raw and rare but it's OK for steaks and roasts. The bacteria can't survive at 140 degrees or above. The smoke and heat coming from a properly preheated pipe offset pit (like Larry's) is at least a 200 degree environment. The ambient heat of the smoker, the heat from the fire, and smoke are all above 200 degrees if not 250 degrees. It seems to me that any bacteria on the surface would be kept in check by that heated environment. It seems to me that preheating the pit properly would be the key and not putting cold meat in a cold pit. If you look at how sausage is smoked, 90 degrees, nitrates must be added (makes a hostile environment) so the meat will not spoil because of the low temp and extended time to cure. The 225-250 degree heated, smoky inside of a pit is hostile to bacteria.


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## zilla (Oct 23, 2005)

Bruce B said:
			
		

> I think the question is unfair and does not properly lay out the circumstances which led to the poll in the first place.
> 
> Ask a proper question and I may participate.



Bruce, I have to say that I originaly read the question as "which meat do you prefer to cook" It took a while for the jist of the thread to sink in.


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## K Kruger (Oct 23, 2005)

> I have to say that I originaly read the question as "which meat do you prefer to cook"



Ditto, zilla.

I don't do it because it's a mental thing with me. 

Here's a thing I wrote on another board in response to the same question:

"_quote:
Are there any rules of thumb when smoking meats from dissimilar animals in the WSM (which goes on top, use of drips pans, etc.)? _

Not really, except for the chicken/fowl issue.

_quote:
maybe i'm missing something. if the pork is cooked to 190f shouldn't any nasties in the chicken drippings be killed off _

Yes, they should. There are a few things to keep in mind: 140 is the critical temp to hit to kill most bacteria; for salmonella it's 160. (In regards to chicken, salmonella and campylobacter are the two most prevalent bacteria.) The 'danger zone' of 40-140 is called the danger zone because when meat is allowed to sit between these temps for a period of time the bacteria can multiply rapidly. The bacteria produce toxins. Though subsequent cooking will kill the bacteria it will not destroy the toxins--even at temps much higher than normal cooking temps.

The 140 degree temp concerns the temp at the meat's surface. The reason we do not hear of people getting sick from a medium-rare rib-eye is because any bacteria present on the surface of the meat is killed when the meat hits the heat. We do hear of people getting sick from medium-rare burgers because when meat is ground what was formerly the surface of the meat is now in the interior of the burger. Unless the burger is cooked to a high enough internal temp there is a potential for problems.

With chicken (and other fowl) it's a bit different. Because of the ways fowl is slaughtered and processed, the way it's (supposed to be) disinfected and chilled, how it's packaged. and the various orifices, flaps of skin, cuts in the meat, etc., salmonella and campylobacter can not be assumed to be only on the bird's surface.

_quote:
I have done chicken over pork and never had an issue _

And you are not likely to have one. That said, the choice is yours. My suggestion would be to do pieces, quarters, halves or, if doing a whole chicken, butterflying it first to maximize airflow. With proper food handling and an eye to the temp issues noted above there is--imo--no more chance of a problem with doing chicken over pork (or whatever) than with doing chicken or another meat alone. 'Proper food handling' is the operative phrase. Undercooked meat is often not the culprit when an illness arises. It is quite often the lack of adequate (and frequent) hand washing, the lack of untensil washing (using utensils (knives, cutting boards, etc.), on raw, contaminated foods and then using the same utensils on cooked foods without having washed them first), and inadequate washing (or the total lack of washing) of fresh vegetables (particularly leafy greens, berries, scallions).

(As a side note: My choice is to not mix chicken with anything else. When using the WSM for meat I either use the kettle for the chicken or I do the chicken in the WSM at high heat (always my preference) immediately after the meat comes out, as Shawn suggests. It is a major mental thing with me--chicken, that is. I am also a stickler for airflow. I do not cram meat in the cooker (e.g., I do not do more than 4 butts at once). I am not confident that meat pressed together in order to fit it on the grate will separate soon enough to be within the saftey zone of >140 in less than 2 hours and I do not want to keep lifitng the lid to check.)"


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## Woodman1 (Oct 23, 2005)

I voted no, but _would_ do it in a pinch. It is really just as dangerous to cook chicken over _chicken_. In my pit, the hotter spots are the two lower shelves. Thus, the chicken on the top cooks slower while dripping on the "more done" stuff on the bottom. I have to rotate all to make certain it cooks evenly. WM


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## Uncle Al (Oct 24, 2005)

zilla said:
			
		

> Uncle Al said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Al, While I agree that most folks do not know enough about food safety I’m afraid I have to disagree with you on this point. If as you say the bacteria from the chicken has produced toxins at any point during cooking then none of the chicken would be safe to eat. At the point of removing the chicken from the grill the same amount of toxins would be present on the chicken as the ribs. Thus rendering the chicken unsafe.

  Consider this. If there is some bacteria on the fresh chicken, it is on the surface and not inside the meat. This is also why ground beef is dangerous to eat raw and rare but it's OK for steaks and roasts. The bacteria can't survive at 140 degrees or above. The smoke and heat coming from a properly preheated pipe offset pit (like Larry's) is at least a 200 degree environment. The ambient heat of the smoker, the heat from the fire, and smoke are all above 200 degrees if not 250 degrees. It seems to me that any bacteria on the surface would be kept in check by that heated environment. It seems to me that preheating the pit properly would be the key and not putting cold meat in a cold pit. If you look at how sausage is smoked, 90 degrees, nitrates must be added (makes a hostile environment) so the meat will not spoil because of the low temp and extended time to cure. The 225-250 degree heated, smoky inside of a pit is hostile to bacteria.[/quote

Zilla

All chicken has bacteria due to the processing, as Kevin said. We can tolerate small amounts without serious consequences. It becomes a problem when the chicken is held in the "un-safe " temp zone that allows the bacteria to multiply enough to cause illness.

Al


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## Bruce B (Oct 24, 2005)

Nothing wrong with toxins, you have to thin out the herd once in awhile.


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## Jack W. (Oct 24, 2005)

It's not completely a safety issue for me.  I just don't care for the taste of chicken grease on other cuts of meat or foods.  Truthfully it sucks.

Good Q!

Jack


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## Bobberqer (Oct 24, 2005)

hmm.. i cook chicken over my smoked beans all the time ..gve them beans a wunnerful taste =D>  temp over 180 is over 180 ...no matter how ya slice it, or dice it, or splice it .... for that matter i've cooked roasted potatoes in  a pan with a whole chicken  over 180 is over 180 no matter how ya...  well ya know the rest 

Bob


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## WalterSC (Oct 24, 2005)

The Joker said:
			
		

> Do you, or would you cook/bbq poultry over other meats, i.e. beef, lamb, pork.
> 
> 
> Nope I will eat it all I aint gonna turn down either. Life is too short why live in fear go forth and eat!!!!!


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## LarryWolfe (Oct 24, 2005)

Bobberqer said:
			
		

> hmm.. i cook chicken over my smoked beans all the time ..gve them beans a wunnerful taste =D>  temp over 180 is over 180 ...no matter how ya slice it, or dice it, or splice it .... for that matter i've cooked roasted potatoes in  a pan with a whole chicken  over 180 is over 180 no matter how ya...  well ya know the rest
> 
> Bob



Ditto Bob!!!  Amen!


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## zilla (Oct 24, 2005)

OK from here on out if anyone gets sick from their BBQ they have to promise to post it on the forum.  :!: That will finish the debate. Or at least give someone an "I told ya so" moment/ :grin:


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## Kloset BBQR (Oct 25, 2005)

Sick is good.  That which does not kill me only makes me stronger.


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## txpgapro (Oct 25, 2005)

No wonder he's so protective of you! :!:


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2005)

ZBQ said:
			
		

> ... Thanks for reading, and remember, this is in NO WAY meant to ridicule or demean anyone on this board.


That's cool ZBQ.  This poll was never meant to incite anger or to divide the peoples of this board ~ Simply to poll and voice any opinion one might have. Thanks for contributing.


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## Griff (Oct 27, 2005)

So where does bird flu fit into this discussion?

Griff


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## LarryWolfe (Oct 28, 2005)

ZBQ said:
			
		

> Hi guys,
> I have been watching this post with interest and have decided to post my opinion. Expressing my opinion is in NO WAY meant to ridicule or demean anyone on this board whose opinion differs. Please continue to do what you feel is safe.
> 
> I have been of this opinion for several years, well before I ever thought of Q'n.
> ...



 =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D> 
 =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D> 
 =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D>  =D> 

Fanfreakingtastic post ZBQ!!!  Good job and welcome aboard!!!


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