# San Marzano vs San Marzano?



## Roll_Bones (Oct 21, 2017)

I got into a little debate regarding San Marzano tomatoes.
I am using the Nina brand that Costco sells. (hey Craig you out there).

Turns out I read an article on San Marzano tomatoes and how to tell if you are actually getting San Marzanos.

https://www.tastecooking.com/fake-rolex-canned-tomatoes

So, I go and look at my can of Nina. And then find another Nina label on the internet.  Whats the deal here?


----------



## Andy M. (Oct 21, 2017)

Difficult to determine if any can, regardless of label, could be a fraud.  I buy Pastene, not a nation brand.  Their SM tomato cans have all kinds of stamps, seals and serial numbers.  They taste great and cost almost $5.00 a can. I have no idea if they're legit.

They also have a 'San Marzano Style' tomato that's much cheaper and still tastes great.  

My advice.  Buy a tomato that tastes good and don't worry about the labels.

I look for a canned whole tomato that's not super acidic.  When making a tomato sauce I always add tomato paste and sauté it so it's natural sweetness offsets the acidity of the tomato.  I refuse to add sugar to tomato sauce.


----------



## Roll_Bones (Oct 21, 2017)

I'm just trying to settle a debate. I love the Nina SM. 
But I am curious if they are indeed true SM's. 

I bought another brand of supposed SM fire roasted made by Muir.  These are not as good as the Nina and I could tell immediately after opening the can. They were good, but I had to pick out membranes and under ripe pieces. 

Costco also used to sell the 1 gallon crushed Nina SM. 
The article says that real SM's don't come crushed. 
Thanks Andy


----------



## salt and pepper (Oct 21, 2017)

If it has the D.O.P. , it's the real thing from Italy.


----------



## Roll_Bones (Oct 21, 2017)

No DOP on the Nina. Take a good look at the can not the label. 
It says "San Marzano Region"

I'm next going to Costco. Just to know. I already love the tomatoes 
Thanks


----------



## Bigjim68 (Oct 21, 2017)

Roll_Bones said:


> I'm just trying to settle a debate. I love the Nina SM.
> But I am curious if they are indeed true SM's.
> 
> I bought another brand of supposed SM fire roasted made by Muir.  These are not as good as the Nina and I could tell immediately after opening the can. They were good, but I had to pick out membranes and under ripe pieces.
> ...



It's my understanding that San Marzano is a variety of tomato which originated in or around Marzano, Italy.  As such, there may be two things going on.  The variety and the location in which it is grown.  I'm sure the area would like you to believe theirs is the one true SM tomato, and therefore superior, which may or not be true.


----------



## caseydog (Oct 21, 2017)

Bigjim68 said:


> It's my understanding that San Marzano is a variety of tomato which originated in or around Marzano, Italy.  As such, there may be two things going on.  The variety and the location in which it is grown.  I'm sure the area would like you to believe theirs is the one true SM tomato, and therefore superior, which may or not be true.



What originally made a real San Marzano tomato better is the volcanic soil that the plants grow in, near the base of Mount Vesuvius. 

Today, the seeds of the San Marzano tomato are grown in other places, but to be called a San Marzano tomato, it has to come from that particular region, much like Champagne must come from the Champagne region of France, or it is not real Champagne. 

The D.O.P on the label is the only way you know if a can of tomatoes is truly San Marzano tomatoes. Similar products will be labeled "San Marzano Style," or something like that. 

CD


----------



## Roll_Bones (Oct 21, 2017)

Bigjim68 said:


> It's my understanding that San Marzano is a variety of tomato which originated in or around Marzano, Italy.  As such, there may be two things going on.  The variety and the location in which it is grown.  I'm sure the area would like you to believe theirs is the one true SM tomato, and therefore superior, which may or not be true.



I read another article where the  Consorzio tells the story.
I guess its like Parmesan Regiano.  Where its like some law or something? 



caseydog said:


> What originally made a real San Marzano tomato better is the volcanic soil that the plants grow in, near the base of Mount Vesuvius.
> Today, the seeds of the San Marzano tomato are grown in other places, but to be called a San Marzano tomato, it has to come from that particular region, much like Champagne must come from the Champagne region of France, or it is not real Champagne.
> The D.O.P on the label is the only way you know if a can of tomatoes is truly San Marzano tomatoes. Similar products will be labeled "San Marzano Style," or something like that.
> CD



I wonder what Costco has to say about this.  The label is decieving.  Says it's  from the SM region and well, you can see the can above.
The other side of the can is in Italian.
Also if it helps, there is a couple whole basil leaves in each can.  Raw basil leaves.  I could do without basil.  If I want basil I can add it myself.  But good stuff it is.  I will lose this debate, but I still have my Costco Nina tomatoes.
They used to sell a gallon can of them crushed.  This is also supposed to be wrong. No crushed or diced SM tomatoes supposedly.

I knew the people here would be a great resource.  Wheres Craig and my girl GG?


----------



## buckytom (Oct 21, 2017)

I noticed that year's ago simply by price comparison. The real D.O.P. San Marzanos were much more expensive than other so-called and equally labelled San Marzanos. Muir Glen included.

The difference in taste was much more obvious.


----------



## Kayelle (Oct 21, 2017)

Andy M. said:


> I look for a canned whole tomato that's not super acidic.  When making a tomato sauce I always add tomato paste and sauté it so it's natural sweetness offsets the acidity of the tomato.  I refuse to add sugar to tomato sauce.



I didn't know this Andy. How can you determine if a brand of tomatoes is less acidic and can you give me an idea of the ratio of T.paste to canned tomatoes that you use? I also refuse to add sugar to tomatoes.
TIA


----------



## caseydog (Oct 21, 2017)

Kayelle said:


> I didn't know this Andy. How can you determine if a brand of tomatoes is less acidic and can you give me an idea of the ratio of T.paste to canned tomatoes that you use? I also refuse to add sugar to tomatoes.
> TIA



The acidity is more than likely affected by the soil a tomato is grown in. I know the San Marzano tomatoes that I buy, with the D.O.P on them, are less acidic. I refuse to add sugar to my tomato sauces, either. That's why I pay extra for the San Marzano tomatoes. 

CD


----------



## Kayelle (Oct 21, 2017)

This is an interesting conversation. Personally, I wouldn't pay $5.00 for a can of tomatoes but maybe that's just me. Then again, brands don't mean much to me and I don't own a Coach handbag either.


----------



## Aunt Bea (Oct 21, 2017)

Kayelle said:


> This is an interesting conversation. Personally, I wouldn't pay $5.00 for a can of tomatoes but maybe that's just me. Then again, brands don't mean much to me and I don't own a Coach handbag either.



I'm with you Kayelle!!!

I use these crushed tomatoes from the local Wegman's, on sale until the end of the year for seventy-nine cents a can!

Don't forget to rinse the can with a little wine! 






A pinch of baking soda added to the tomatoes will help neutralize the acid and make them taste a little sweeter.


----------



## caseydog (Oct 21, 2017)

Kayelle said:


> This is an interesting conversation. Personally, I wouldn't pay $5.00 for a can of tomatoes but maybe that's just me. Then again, brands don't mean much to me and I don't own a Coach handbag either.



I will gladly pay five bucks for a can of SM tomatoes, if I am making tomato sauce with fresh herbs from my garden -- for a meal where the sauce is the star of the show. 

Now, if I am making a big pot of chili, where the tomato's flavor is not front-and-center, I will use something cheaper. 

CD


----------



## GotGarlic (Oct 21, 2017)

Roll_Bones said:


> I guess its like Parmesan Regiano.  Where its like some law or something?



The European Union has internal regulations that stipulate how and where certain products must be produced to be considered "authentic" and be allowed to put DOP on the label. The United States does not require adherence to these standards, so what's sold here with certain names can be misleading. 



Roll_Bones said:


> I knew the people here would be a great resource.  Wheres Craig and my girl GG?



Aw, aren't you sweet? 

I haven't said anything because whether or not a tomato product contains Italian San Marzano tomatoes is not important to me. I buy whatever is on sale.

The acidity of tomatoes is determined by the variety and the growing conditions, including length of daylight hours and cloudiness during the season. The acids and sugars in the fruit are developed by photosynthesis, so the more sun they get, the more flavor they will have. Since sweeter tomatoes have more natural sugars (fructose and glucose) than acids in them, I don't have a problem with adding a pinch of sugar if I think it needs it. Usually, though, browning onions for the sauce releases enough sugar to create a good balance. 

More info here: https://hort.purdue.edu/prod_quality/commodities/tomato.html

RB, it might be fun to set up a double-blind taste test to see what you think when you don't know what you're eating. Epicurious had a surprising result when they did that: https://www.epicurious.com/expert-advice/best-canned-tomatoes-san-marzano-italian-taste-test-article


----------



## Cooking Goddess (Oct 22, 2017)

I actually did a blind test with Himself. I used only three cans, whole tomatoes, cut in bite-size pieces. I had an authentic, stamped-with-a-seal, genuine San Marzano, ol' reliable Hunts, and...I think it was Pastene (which may be regional -  it's headquartered in Canton, MA). Not sure of the third. Which is a shame, really, since I think that one was preferred - but by only a tiny margin over the Hunt's. That's probably why I don't remember that one sample, since Himself said that he prefers Hunt's. It's what his Mom used, it's what I've used most of the time. I did try to make a batch of spaghetti sauce with Contadina...once. I tried to save a few pennies as a newlywed, and was instructed to blow the bank on the Hunt's.


----------



## GotGarlic (Oct 22, 2017)

Cooking Goddess said:


> I actually did a blind test with Himself. I used only three cans, whole tomatoes, cut in bite-size pieces.



Kewl  Double-blind is the gold standard, though, because the tester can unintentionally communicate a preference that the subject of the test might pick up on.


----------



## Caslon (Oct 22, 2017)

This discussion reminds me that I have a can of Del Monte stewed tomatoes on the shelf that I've been meaning to use.


----------



## di reston (Oct 22, 2017)

Living in Italy - which is not to boast - I've never noticed the difference between canned San Marzano tomatoes, or any other canned toms unless they're canned on the cheap. For a while some time ago, on British television they doing Hail Mary's for virtues of San Marzano tomatoes, and it was them or nothing. Curiously, now, they seem to have disappeared off the horizon. Then there were the articles about how the housewives of Naples concentrated their fresh San Marzano hand harvested and reduced to a concentrate on the balconies of Naples.To me that's just snobbery.
I have to say, that there is a vast difference between the flavour of fresh harvested of ALL tomatoes, Tomato Roma included, and the canned the varieties of the same. If I lived over in the US, I would go for, any time, home produced toms that do the job just as well at half (or more) the price.


di reston


Enough is never as good as a feast    Oscar Wilde


----------



## di reston (Oct 22, 2017)

The San Marzano DOP variety of tomatoes is expensive over here, plus, it's cultivated in the officialy designated grounds that define San Marzano. There is'nt enough of the stuff to supply the whole world, let alone Italy! The San Marzano type of tomato, is widely cultivated, although they have the designated title 'San Marzan'. The San Marzano DOP tomatoes are cultivated on the slopes of Vesuvius, and the San Marzano tomatoes are cultivated widely around that area - in Italy. The myth of the San Marzano DOP tomato is further amplified by the practise by the housewives of Naples, who are known to reduce their home-made 'polpa', or sauce, down to a purèe, on the balconies of their dwellings in Naples, and on the roadsides of the more agricultural areas. It is very expensive!
I can quite understand why people opt for 'San Marzano' tomatoes on there own. If I were and had a suitable piece of land, I'd get the 'San Marzano' seeds and grow them myself, then make my own tomato purèe! I'm sure that the soils of the USA are equally up to producing good stuff!

di reston

Eneough is never as good as a feast     Oscar Wilde


----------



## GotGarlic (Oct 22, 2017)

di reston said:


> I can quite understand why people opt for 'San Marzano' tomatoes on there own. If I were and had a suitable piece of land, I'd get the 'San Marzano' seeds and grow them myself, then make my own tomato purèe! I'm sure that the soils of the USA are equally up to producing good stuff!



Roma tomatoes for commercial sale are widely grown in Florida, southern California and other states across the Southern United States. We grew some in our backyard garden a few years ago and I still have tomato paste left that I made from some of them. They were absolutely delicious.

So yes, I agree with you that yummy paste tomatoes can be grown in places other than San Marzano, Italy, and you've explained perfectly why so many companies here use misleading labels - it's all marketing hype. The TV chefs created a market for these by talking about them all the time, but there's no way to keep up with the demand. Therefore, there are knock-offs, just like with any other high-demand, high-cost item.


----------



## RPCookin (Oct 22, 2017)

I use Hunts Fire Roasted diced tomatoes almost exclusively, and they are universally available.  

I don't shop around for canned tomatoes - except for the Hunts, they all taste the same to me.  Not worth paying a premium for minor differences.  Any recipe calling for diced tomatoes gets the Hunts.

I confess that I'm not a big canned tomato user.  I always have the Hunts in the pantry because they are handy when I just want to throw some things together for an easy one skillet meal, but I don't do a lot of tomato sauced dishes.  I probably use them more for the Minnesota style chili con carne that I learned at my mother's knee than for anything else.


----------



## di reston (Oct 22, 2017)

Stick to decent American produce guys, and don't let market advertising get in the way. What you should look for is a plum tomato (for sauces), a cherry tomato (where the cherry tomato is the dominant part of a dish), and look for a good US brand. After all, tomatoes came from your side of the world and you should be able to get hold of some pretty good stuff. Too often we get entwined with 'quality' and 'price'. What the dickens does that mean, when American produce is very good! (P.S. I have to go buy American produce over here if I want American stuff for a start and  the prices are high - and yes, your guys are still over here in Italy, doing a good job - did you know that?) I've never been let down with the stuff I bought from them. It's good.

di reston

Enoughis never as good as a feast   Oscar Wilde


----------



## Roll_Bones (Oct 22, 2017)

GotGarlic said:


> The European Union has internal regulations that stipulate how and where certain products must be produced to be considered "authentic" and be allowed to put DOP on the label. The United States does not require adherence to these standards, so what's sold here with certain names can be misleading.
> 
> Aw, aren't you sweet?
> 
> ...



Thanks GG!



di reston said:


> Living in Italy - which is not to boast - I've never noticed the difference between canned San Marzano tomatoes, or any other canned toms unless they're canned on the cheap. For a while some time ago, on British television they doing Hail Mary's for virtues of San Marzano tomatoes, and it was them or nothing. Curiously, now, they seem to have disappeared off the horizon. Then there were the articles about how the housewives of Naples concentrated their fresh San Marzano hand harvested and reduced to a concentrate on the balconies of Naples.To me that's just snobbery.
> I have to say, that there is a vast difference between the flavour of fresh harvested of ALL tomatoes, Tomato Roma included, and the canned the varieties of the same. If I lived over in the US, I would go for, any time, home produced toms that do the job just as well at half (or more) the price.
> 
> di reston
> Enough is never as good as a feast    Oscar Wilde



I like using canned tomatoes for sauces. Prefer canned.



RPCookin said:


> I use Hunts Fire Roasted diced tomatoes almost exclusively, and they are universally available.
> 
> I don't shop around for canned tomatoes - except for the Hunts, they all taste the same to me.  Not worth paying a premium for minor differences.  Any recipe calling for diced tomatoes gets the Hunts.
> 
> I confess that I'm not a big canned tomato user.  I always have the Hunts in the pantry because they are handy when I just want to throw some things together for an easy one skillet meal, but I don't do a lot of tomato sauced dishes.  I probably use them more for the Minnesota style chili con carne that I learned at my mother's knee than for anything else.



Costco sells the Nina 3 pack 28 oz can for around $4.  Just over a dollar a can for tomatoes that are far superior to whats available from the big names.

I encourage you to try one can and tell me they compare to Hunts or any other big name.
The Nina are far superior in appearance and taste.  Check for yourself.  You will see the minute you open the can.


----------



## salt and pepper (Oct 22, 2017)

caseydog said:


> What originally made a real San Marzano tomato better is the volcanic soil that the plants grow in, near the base of Mount Vesuvius.
> 
> Today, the seeds of the San Marzano tomato are grown in other places, but to be called a San Marzano tomato, it has to come from that particular region, much like Champagne must come from the Champagne region of France, or it is not real Champagne.
> 
> ...



  That's the best way to tell if it's the real thing. Good reply. Some brands are grown in California and the say San Marzano too! they are good but not the best because of soil content.


----------



## caseydog (Oct 22, 2017)

di reston said:


> The San Marzano DOP variety of tomatoes is expensive over here, plus, it's cultivated in the officialy designated grounds that define San Marzano. There is'nt enough of the stuff to supply the whole world, let alone Italy! The San Marzano type of tomato, is widely cultivated, although they have the designated title 'San Marzan'. The San Marzano DOP tomatoes are cultivated on the slopes of Vesuvius, and the San Marzano tomatoes are cultivated widely around that area - in Italy. The myth of the San Marzano DOP tomato is further amplified by the practise by the housewives of Naples, who are known to reduce their home-made 'polpa', or sauce, down to a purèe, on the balconies of their dwellings in Naples, and on the roadsides of the more agricultural areas. It is very expensive!
> I can quite understand why people opt for 'San Marzano' tomatoes on there own. If I were and had a suitable piece of land, I'd get the 'San Marzano' seeds and grow them myself, then make my own tomato purèe! *I'm sure that the soils of the USA are equally up to producing good stuff!*
> 
> di reston
> ...



The problem here is with big corporate farming. Those companies are focused on low costs and high volumes. Tomatoes, in particular, are often grown where the climate is optimal for high volume production for most of the year, and the soil isn't all that important. An abundance of cheap labor is a priority, too. 

I wish I could grow my own tomatoes at home, but it isn't practical given my occupation. Tomatoes need attention and I travel a lot. 

Fresh tomatoes at the grocery store here have very little taste. I can only speak for Texas, but I imagine others here find the same bland tomatoes in their local stores. 

CD


----------



## Andy M. (Oct 22, 2017)

Today's supermarket tomatoes have been bred to last a long time and be resistant to bruising.  Taste is not a factor in modern corporate tomato farming.  This is why I almost always cook with canned tomatoes.


----------



## blissful (Oct 22, 2017)

One advantage to home gardening, is that you can fortify the soil with aged manure and compost, changing the nutrients available to the tomatoes, if you grow them. We grow san marzano (seed) and they are fabulous here, especially with lots of water and sunshine. We also grow roma tomatoes, they are fabulous as well. 

You can change the acidity of the tomatoes (if you want for safety reasons) with citric acid, lemon juice, or vinegar, and you can balance flavor with salt, when canning. Then when cooking, again you can balance flavors (not that I'd need to) with the addition of honey or sugar and or salt.

To concentrate the tomato and the flavor, you can do long cooking and that does seem to make them taste more acidic. You can get rid of some of the acidity with a pinch of baking soda. You can dip off clear liquid leaving only the paste/flesh to concentrate it further. You can use a sieve to drain off some of the liquid (which we like to drink!) concentrating them further before canning or cooking. 

So to me, the home canner and cook, I can manipulate them if needed so they turn out how I want them. I'm sure the canning industry has all of these tricks available to them as well as laboratories for even more tricks to keep the ph where they want it and the sweetness where they want it to please the consumer's taste buds. I don't fool myself and believe for one minute that they aren't using all their tricks to give the consumer what they want. (often I find these industrial canned goods, too sweet and for soups, too salty) That's how they make money (neither good nor bad).

I've probably planted tomatoes, all kinds, for 30 years or so. I plant the san marzano and the roma because they give ME my best product. My tomatoes are heirloom, they often suffer from wilts, early or late, and that is just what happens, depending on the weather. Still those two tomatoes have been amazing producers with a thick flesh, small gel/seed locules, and delicious taste. They'd never be industrial grown, they are too much trouble for acres of farm fields! ha ha. But, they are the best, to me.


----------



## Chief Longwind Of The North (Oct 22, 2017)

Andy M. said:


> Difficult to determine if any can, regardless of label, could be a fraud.  I buy Pastene, not a nation brand.  Their SM tomato cans have all kinds of stamps, seals and serial numbers.  They taste great and cost almost $5.00 a can. I have no idea if they're legit.
> 
> They also have a 'San Marzano Style' tomato that's much cheaper and still tastes great.
> 
> ...



I am absolutely with you about not adding sugar to tomato sauce.  I too add tomato paste to my sauce to sweeten in, though I like my sauce with a little acidity.  I use De Fratelli tomat puree.  I really like the flavor of that brand.
For the Op, There are places in the U.S. where the soil is the result of volcanoes.  The west coast is part of the Pacific fire ring.  Also, I imagine that the kind of volcano is important.  Different volcanoes produce different soil types.  I agree with di-reston, who is quite a knowledgeable cook, that one should find a tomato product they like, and use it.  Don't worry about the latest fad.

Seeeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


----------



## GotGarlic (Oct 22, 2017)

Curious. If I'm not mistaken, most people here have no problem adjusting the flavor of a dish with salt or an acid like citrus juice or vinegar. What is the objection to adjusting the flavor of tomato sauce with sugar if you find it too acidic?


----------



## Rocklobster (Oct 22, 2017)

Andy M. said:


> Today's supermarket tomatoes have been bred to last a long time and be resistant to bruising.  Taste is not a factor in modern corporate tomato farming.  This is why I almost always cook with canned tomatoes.




When I buy tomatoes from the supermarket I keep them out of the fridge on the window sill for a few days until they become ripe. I usually have a few  on the go in different stages of  ripeness..


----------



## Addie (Oct 22, 2017)

I too, like Andy am a Pastene fan. It does say on the can that they are imported from Italy in in the San Marzano area. I am one of those folks who will purchase a case, but only when on sale. My mother used them, I use them and so does my daughter. She stocks up like I do, but only when on sale. If I used up my last can the last time we had pasta and Pastene is not on sale, oh well. No pasta this week. Unless you are willing to settle on just butter and a little garlic. 

I prefer to purchase the crushed. But if the whole tomato is what is on sale, then a quick whiz in the blender takes care of that problem. When I am buying whole tomatoes, as for a sandwich, then I always buy the Roma. It is fleshier that the regular tomatoes. And they have better flavor. Why would I spend my money of tasteless food. In this part of Boston, if they could, every Italian, imported or natural born, prefers to have their whole life labeled, "Made in Italy." We have a meat shop down on Meridian Street. It is family owned and has been in business since the early 1930's. They are mostly meat cutters, but make great subs, and with a quick guess, I would say about 90% of the dry goods on their shelves comes from Italy. Can goods, packaged pasta, anchovies, tomatoes, etc.  And the tomatoes have to be Pastene. It is the only brand they will carry.


----------



## caseydog (Oct 22, 2017)

GotGarlic said:


> Curious. If I'm not mistaken, most people here have no problem adjusting the flavor of a dish with salt or an acid like citrus juice or vinegar. What is the objection to adjusting the flavor of tomato sauce with sugar if you find it too acidic?



Added sugar is the biggest reason Americans are saddled with so much obesity and type 2 diabetes. Too much sodium is not helping us, either. So, if I can cook my own food without added sugar or too much salt, I can eat good food that is also good for me. 

When we eat foods like fresh fruits, we are consuming sugars, but we are also getting nutrients and fiber that is beneficial to us. Sugar cane and HFCS provides nothing but sweetness. They have no nutritional value. 

If I use good tomatoes (a fruit), I don't need to add sugar. 

CD


----------



## GotGarlic (Oct 22, 2017)

caseydog said:


> Added sugar is the biggest reason Americans are saddled with so much obesity and type 2 diabetes. Too much sodium is not helping us, either. So, if I can cook my own food without added sugar or too much salt, I can eat good food that is also good for me.
> 
> When we eat foods like fresh fruits, we are consuming sugars, but we are also getting nutrients and fiber that is beneficial to us. Sugar cane and HFCS provides nothing but sweetness. They have no nutritional value.
> 
> If I use good tomatoes (a fruit), I don't need to add sugar.



A teaspoon of sugar used to balance flavor in a pot of sauce doesn't count as "added sugar." 

"The leading sources of added sugars in the U.S. diet are sugar-sweetened beverages, grain-based desserts like cakes and cookies, candy, and dairy desserts like ice cream. Reducing the amount of sugary drinks and sugary foods each day and replacing these with plain water and fruit might be a good way to reduce added sugars intake."
https://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/data-statistics/know-your-limit-for-added-sugars.html

Don't be condescending, Casey. I know about the benefits of whole fruits. And HFCS is not a household ingredient, so that's not relevant. 

Good tomatoes can be sweet, acidic or in between. You can't tell from looking at them how sweet they are and we're not talking about fresh whole tomatoes anyway. We're talking about homemade tomato sauce - a combination of ingredients that may need balancing to achieve the desired flavor.


----------



## caseydog (Oct 22, 2017)

GotGarlic said:


> A teaspoon of sugar used to balance flavor in a pot of sauce doesn't count as "added sugar."
> 
> "The leading sources of added sugars in the U.S. diet are sugar-sweetened beverages, grain-based desserts like cakes and cookies, candy, and dairy desserts like ice cream. Reducing the amount of sugary drinks and sugary foods each day and replacing these with plain water and fruit might be a good way to reduce added sugars intake."
> https://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/data-statistics/know-your-limit-for-added-sugars.html
> ...



I don't know why you have to make everything a fight. I wasn't being "condescending," I just answered the question that you asked. I told you honestly what my "objection to adjusting the flavor of tomato sauce with sugar" is.

If you add sugar to something, it is "added sugar." A little added sugar here, a little there -- it adds up. I choose not to add that sugar to my sauce, or anything else that doesn't *need* added sugar, which is most of the foods that I eat.

CD


----------



## Cooking Goddess (Oct 23, 2017)

Although my MIL's recipe for slow-simmer spaghetti sauce said to cook it for at least four hours, she included a Tbsp of sugar to the ingredients list she gave to Himself so he could make it at college. Why include the sugar? Because that wise woman knew that college-age boys could not wait for it to simmer long enough for it to lose its acidic taste. She was right - they would finish the pot up before two hours were gone! I use her recipe (with a few, tiny modifications) but omit the sugar. Instead, I simmer the sauce for at least six hours - usually closer to eight, though. By cooking it for that long, there isn't even a hint of acid. It may seem like overkill, but I do make quarts and quarts of it at a time, so to me it's worth it.


----------



## CraigC (Oct 23, 2017)

Caslon said:


> This discussion reminds me that I have a can of Del Monte stewed tomatoes on the shelf that I've been meaning to use.



You can make a really good green bean dish with them or a fast and easy hot dog dish. Cooked with some onion, garlic and hot sauce they make a fine hot dog topping. You can tell stewed tomatoes were part of the learning curve during my trial and error days of learning to cook. I still make those recipes from time to time.


----------



## GotGarlic (Oct 23, 2017)

caseydog said:


> I don't know why you have to make everything a fight. I wasn't being "condescending," I just answered the question that you asked. I told you honestly what my "objection to adjusting the flavor of tomato sauce with sugar" is.



Sorry but it did come across that way.



caseydog said:


> If you add sugar to something, it is "added sugar." A little added sugar here, a little there -- it adds up. I choose not to add that sugar to my sauce, or anything else that doesn't *need* added sugar, which is most of the foods that I eat.



It's been well established that most of the added sugar (and extra sodium) people eat are from prepared and processed foods, not homemade foods. If you add a little sugar to your tomato sauce, you're still getting the benefits of the tomatoes and other ingredients in the sauce. It's not like eating a cupcake.

Thanks for the response. I'd like to hear from the others who said the same thing.


----------



## Roll_Bones (Oct 23, 2017)

I was under the impression the sugar was added because of the tomato paste?
I added a pinch in my gallon of marinara I made on Saturday.
I thought the sauce was quite sweet.  Did not need the sugar at all.
I use two small cans of paste with about a pint (more if needed) of water along with the gallon can of crushed tomatoes.
Next time I will wait until its almost done before adding any sugar. 
Its still a great sauce.


----------



## Andy M. (Oct 23, 2017)

The canned tomatoes can be acidic.  That's what people add the sugar for.  

I add a can (3 oz.) of tomato paste to a 28 Oz.can of tomato.  After sautéing the aromatics, I add the paste and sauté that too.  This brings out the natural sweetness in the paste and helps to counteract the acidity of the tomato.


----------



## Kayelle (Oct 23, 2017)

GG, my only reason for not adding sugar to a pasta sauce is I simply don't like a sweet sauce, or tomato soup for that matter. I do use a pinch of baking soda however, if the canned tomatoes seem too acidic.


----------



## Kayelle (Oct 23, 2017)

Andy M. said:


> The canned tomatoes can be acidic.  That's what people add the sugar for.
> 
> I add a can (3 oz.) of tomato paste to a 28 Oz.can of tomato.  After sautéing the aromatics, I add the paste and sauté that too.  This brings out the natural sweetness in the paste and helps to counteract the acidity of the tomato.



Thanks for that info Andy. I'll give it a try!


----------



## GotGarlic (Oct 23, 2017)

Roll_Bones said:


> I was under the impression the sugar was added because of the tomato paste?
> I added a pinch in my gallon of marinara I made on Saturday.
> I thought the sauce was quite sweet.  Did not need the sugar at all.
> I use two small cans of paste with about a pint (more if needed) of water along with the gallon can of crushed tomatoes.
> ...


I only add it if it needs it towards the end of the cooking time. Taste, adjust seasoning - maybe it's too acidic, maybe it's too sweet, maybe it needs more salt or oregano (or whatever herbs I'm using). That depends on all the ingredients and the balance of flavors they already have, as well as the cooking techniques used, like Andy sautéing the tomato paste to bring out the natural sugar in it.


----------



## GotGarlic (Oct 23, 2017)

Andy M. said:


> I add a can (3 oz.) of tomato paste to a 28 Oz.can of tomato.  After sautéing the aromatics, I add the paste and sauté that too.  This brings out the natural sweetness in the paste and helps to counteract the acidity of the tomato.



That's a very cheffy move, Andy  I learned that trick in culinary school.


----------



## GotGarlic (Oct 23, 2017)

Kayelle said:


> GG, my only reason for not adding sugar to a pasta sauce is I simply don't like a sweet sauce, or tomato soup for that matter. I do use a pinch of baking soda however, if the canned tomatoes seem too acidic.



Okay. Three or four people said they "refuse" to add sugar to tomato sauce, so I was wondering what prompted that strong language [emoji38]

I don't like a sweet sauce, either. I'll taste towards the end of cooking and add whatever I think it needs to get the flavor I want.


----------



## Addie (Oct 23, 2017)

About a year ago I was having some serious problems getting my sugar back under control. So little by little, I found I was using less sugar, less salt, less grains. (Bread) No more quick grab a bite from a hastily made sandwich. Less sugar in my coffee or tea, veggies that contained less natural sugar without giving up the nutrients. 

The weight came off and over time I found I didn't miss the added sweetness. Plus as I get older and it is harder for me to walk, I am not as active, so I eat less. I also practice serving control. I use a salad plate for my food instead of a full size dinner plate. So it is not just the sugar alone. It is a combination of all the foods we eat. 

No, I do not put sugar in my pasta sauce. I use herbs and other seasonings to accomplish the flavor I am seeking. And like others, I add it at the end of cooking.


----------



## Andy M. (Oct 23, 2017)

GotGarlic said:


> That's a very cheffy move, Andy  I learned that trick in culinary school.



Do you use this trick?  I do, in place of adding sugar.


----------



## caseydog (Oct 23, 2017)

GotGarlic said:


> Sorry but it did come across that way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry if it sounded condescending to you, but it was not my intention. 

I agree completely that processed foods and sugary drinks are the primary culprits when it comes to excess sugar and sodium. That's a good reason to cook my own food at home. I like that I get to decide what goes into my food. I use salt sparingly, and avoid sugars, other than what I get naturally from fresh fruits and juices. 

Would adding a little sugar to my sauce hurt me? Probably not, but if I like the sauce without adding any sugar, I don't see a reason to add any. 

CD


----------



## medtran49 (Oct 23, 2017)

I use s pinch or 2 of sugar if the sauce tastes too acidic after it has cooked for a while, otherwise I don't.  I've been known to use a pinch or 2 as well, or some honey, if appropriate, in other things that are too acidic or bitter also.


----------



## Aunt Bea (Oct 23, 2017)

If you are making a plain tomato sauce adding a lump of butter at the last minute helps to cut or hide an acidic bite.

Adding a finely grated carrot to a longer cooking sauce can help to sweeten the sauce slightly.

IMO using a small amount of sugar as a seasoning gets a bad rap and is no different than adding a dash of salt.


----------



## Cheryl J (Oct 23, 2017)

Aunt Bea said:


> If you are making a plain tomato sauce adding a lump of butter at the last minute helps to cut or hide an acidic bite.
> 
> *Adding a finely grated carrot to a longer cooking sauce can help to sweeten the sauce slightly.*
> 
> IMO using a small amount of sugar as a seasoning gets a bad rap and is no different than adding a dash of salt.


 
I was just going to say that about the carrot!  My mother used to sometimes add finely grated carrot to her sauce - the 'carrot' flavor disappears, but it does help balance an acidic sauce.


----------



## GotGarlic (Oct 23, 2017)

Andy M. said:


> Do you use this trick?  I do, in place of adding sugar.


No, I never seem to remember it. I do cook down the onions pretty good, which also releases their sugar.


----------



## Roll_Bones (Oct 24, 2017)

Andy M. said:


> The canned tomatoes can be acidic.  That's what people add the sugar for.
> 
> I add a can (3 oz.) of tomato paste to a 28 Oz.can of tomato.  After sautéing the aromatics, I add the paste and sauté that too.  This brings out the natural sweetness in the paste and helps to counteract the acidity of the tomato.



I also saute the paste with the aromatics. When the aromatics are almost ready.  I make a hot spot in the pan for the paste.  Even a couple more drops of EVOO to help it fry a bit.  My mother did it that way and it seems to be the correct way as far as TV chefs go.


----------



## di reston (Oct 24, 2017)

When tomatoes are in season - we plant Roma, which have been used specifically for sauces for ages, and which are also available canned. I find the balance of flavours more mellow, and when you buy from the market, they're cheaper too, handy when you're doing sauce in bulk. I reduce the sauce, and then bottle. The other elements - seasoning (no sugar), with a little 'trito' composed of finely chopped onions and carrots in not very large quantities and sweated in a little EVOO. I'm happy with that. It's fine as far as I'm concerned.

di reston

Enough is never as good as a feast     Oscar Wilde


----------



## CarolPa (Oct 24, 2017)

Kayelle said:


> This is an interesting conversation. Personally, I wouldn't pay $5.00 for a can of tomatoes but maybe that's just me. Then again, brands don't mean much to me and I don't own a Coach handbag either.



I have a Coach handbag.....I got it at Goodwill for $10 and it's probably a knock-off!  LOL


----------

