# Charlie D's Ukrainian Recipes



## kitchenelf

Charlie D - what are some foods that are pure (or close to it - I don't know if any kind of cooking is actually pure) Ukranian dishes and of course, we need recipes.


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## CharlieD

Borscht (so called beet root soup) hot or cold

Green borscht (also know as schav, made with sorrel leaves or spinach due to availability problem) hot or cold

Rassol'nik (soup with kidneys and pickles)

Pampushki (garlic bread rolls, there are million recipes for them, so don't ask for one, it's too hard to choose)

Golubtsy (cabbage rolls)

Vareniki (ravioli) 

Buzhanina (the closest thing to description I can think of is a cold cut made out of pork),

Pirozhki (also known as pirogi)

Nalistniki (also known as blintzes)
 
Zharkoe (meat stew)



The list goes on, but those ones in my opinion are more prevalent for Ukraine and very common in everyday cooking. If there is a specific dish or a particular ingredient or a recipe for one of the above/all of the above some body is interested I’ll try to find out an answer. As my recipes are all in Russian/Ukrainian I will need time to translate, so please be patient.

P.S. Onw thing I can add all of them are time consumming to make.


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## GB

CharlieD said:
			
		

> P.S. One thing I can add all of them are time consumming to make.


A lot of the best things are


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## kitchenelf

Pick a couple of your favorites CharlieD and share your recipes - and we're not opposed to having all your recipes


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## CharlieD

I'm sure you're not.

Okay here is one i have translated. Though it really is not a summer dish:

Zharkoe:



That is Ukrainian meat stew





Do you have a Dutch oven? You are going to need one.


I use either chicken or short ribs, or stew meet; shank is really good.
My Dutch oven is pretty big, I can cook probably up to 6-7 pounds of meat.

So lets say:

3-31/2 lb meat of your choosing;

Or 1 whole chicken or chicken parts about that weight
1 large or 2 medium onions.
2-3-tb spoons oil
½ t baking soda
1-2 quarts boiling water
Salt, pepper to taste.

I do not like onion, so I try to cut it so small when it’s cooked it is almost non-existent.
Heat up oil in the Dutch oven. Slice onion into little squares. For those who can speak normal English (unlike me) that’s called dicing. Put into oil and sauté until it is golden brown, but do not burn. Add baking soda and pour about a cup of boiling water over it. Stir the whole mixture. Add meat, season it and fry until it is brown on all sides. 10-15 min or so depends on meat and how you cut it. I usually try to have 2-inch cubes or chicken I like to cut into eighth. Add water just to barely cover the meat and cook it for about half an hour or so. Now if it is chicken I add water to cover meat completely stir it and put in the oven 220-230 and just cook it uncovered till it is done (about one hour). With beef, I like to put in the oven and cook it all night or 5-6-7 hours. Last hour or so uncover it Of course if I do not have time I just cook till it is ready on the stove top. Now there are things you can do after. I.e. I add potato, or rice, or potato and carrots, or potato and beans, or really you can put other veggies. Or do not do anything just serve with a side dish of your choosing. If you do that then do not add water second time. Some time before it is done taste and re-season. Now if I add veggies, I like to take meat out, cook potato and than add meat back, at the end, reheat and serve. If you ad potato, beans or carrots it doesn’t really matter ho much water you have in the pot, but if it is rice you should make sure to add amount of rice that by the time it is ready there is no water left. It depends on type of rice you use. The rice I use usually doubles in amount so for every cup of water in the pot (approximately) I add half a cup of rise. Very important to check for seasoning because rise and beans especially, will need extra salt to be added.

Now I hope you enjoy it. If you do not understand my babbling here please ask, I’ll try to explain better. Really zharkoe is one of the easiest things to make. But if it is done properly it will have this beautiful brown to a dark brown color and taste really good. Nothing like a bowl of zharkoe on the cold day. I do not make it as much in the summer, but in the winter it is one of my and my family’s favorites.


P.S. extra onion wouldn't hurt. Gives extra flavor.


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## kitchenelf

Sounds great Charlie - I'll save this for one of our first cold days!


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## middie

charlie thast sounds fabulous !! thank you for posting it


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## CharlieD

And here is something that goes really well with that Zharkoe:

Pickled tomato 


No canning required, but you will not be able to pickle them in the refrigerator. The pickling, that takes 2 to 3 weeks, has to be done at the room temperature. I recommend the kitchen, but as far away from stove as possible. 



The recipe is very simple. I buy a box of tomatoes at the farmers market. It fills in the big pail that I have. I bought one in restaurant supply store, but you can use an enamel-plated pot. Or even a jar, if you make a little bit. As I make to last the whole winter I make 2 big pails, I think they are like 5 gallons or so.



Okay here is the recipe. 





The recipe is for 5-gallon pail:



Tomatoes to fill pail almost to the top.

Dill one bunch, that is sold in the store or the farmers market is enough, if you like dill a lot, like I do, you can use 2 bunches.

Celery stalks 3, cut up in the 2-3 Inc pieces.

Hot pepper 3. I buy those long red or yellow ones; have no idea what they called. 

Garlic 1

Salt 4 tablespoons for every 3 litter/quarts of water

Bay leaves few

Allspice and Black peppercorn; each about a t-spoon. I just grab it with 3 fingers whatever comes out is good enough.



Now the hot pepper will make tomato spicy, my mom puts only one I like a little bit spicier so I use 3, but I do not like spicy food so you can add more if you like spicy food, but not too much, at least first time.



Wash the tomatoes, peppers and dill. Cut up dill, put some to cover the bottom of the pail.

Put tomatoes, pepper, celery, and garlic. Make sure that garlic cloves, peppers, celery and dill is evenly spread through out the pail. Leave some dill to have enough to cover tomatoes on the top. Dissolve _pickling_ salt in a little bit of the hot water and add the rest of cold water to fill the proportion above. My pail I can fill with 9 quarts of water. Just enough to cover tomatoes. Add allspice and black peppercorn. Spread the rest of dill on the top.

Now you have to keep them (the tomatoes) down and covered. I spread the cheesecloth over it and put big diner plate on the top, and then I put weight on the top. There is no exact since on how much weight. You can start with 2-litter soda bottle, but then in the week or even sooner you should switch to something lighter, like a quart or so. If there is not enough weight it is not a big problem if there is too much, tomato will get smashed. There is a debate about tomatoes, red or green, I use both. When I make a lot and set aside for the winter, I just eat the red ones first and the green ones I live for the latter. This year I had one jar of green ones left in June they were still awesome. The harder the tomato the lower on the bottom it should go, and the softer - the higher, of course. 

Now comes the part my wife hates. It stinks well I like the smell. It takes 2 to 3 weeks for the pickling process, depends on the temperature in the kitchen, I do it in the kitchen. Tomatoes will get covered with something that looks like mildew, at this point you have to take plate and cloth of, rinse it and put it back. You should not allow mildew to build up and stay because tomatoes will taste like that mildew, yuck. In about two weeks you should taste them, and if they are ready (if they are not they will have some what weird and bitter taste, if yes it should remind you of dill pickles taste), slowly take them one by one, slowly rinse under cold water and put in the clean jar, then drain the pickling juice (for those who speak English that’s brine  ) through the clean cheesecloth right into the jar to cover tomatoes. Take some garlic cloves and if you like your tomatoes to be spicy add one pepper, make sure to rinse them too.

I keep my tomatoes in the refrigerator. If everything was clean they will stay clean the whole winter, if not they may have some mildew build up on the top. Then you should take out and clean it up. It is not a problem in the end. 







P.S.



The spices and the greens that I put into tomato are really not carved in the stone, or whatever the saying is. For example back in Ukraine we used to add things like horseradish leaves, leaves of the cherry tree and leaves of black currant. Last year I added green capers, but this year I did not have any. So, if you are going to do that more than ones you can experiment


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## Alix

Charlie, I would love to see your recipe for pirohzki. Mine is passed down from my Baba and I would love to see yours. I'll post mine too.

Sorry, also, do you have a recipe for holupchi (sp?), we have always made the sour cabbage kind, and I am looking for one that has the three grains in it. Buckwheat, rice and barley. I have been looking for this for a LOOOONG time. Hoping you can help.


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## CharlieD

Alix said:
			
		

> Charlie, I would love to see your recipe for pirohzki. Mine is passed down from my Baba and I would love to see yours. I'll post mine too.
> 
> Sorry, also, do you have a recipe for holupchi (sp?), we have always made the sour cabbage kind, and I am looking for one that has the three grains in it. Buckwheat, rice and barley. I have been looking for this for a LOOOONG time. Hoping you can help.


 
 Let’s decide what do we call things here, Golubtsy, or as it is pronounced in Ukrainian Holuptsy, are cabbage rolls. 

 I do not know what “holupchi” are. So if you could describe a little bit more, what it is exactly. The pronunciation changes and names get misused with time, nothing strange about that. So we might be calling the same thing completely different name. 



The pirozhki, what kind do you make? I make both the pastry dough and the yeast kind. But really prefer the pastry, first of all for the taste and second of all, for convenience to be able to buy ready made frozen pastry dough.


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## Alix

CharlieD said:
			
		

> Let’s decide what do we call things here, Golubtsy, or as it is pronounced in Ukrainian Holuptsy, are cabbage rolls.




Charlie, I am referring to cabbage rolls, I merely spell phonetically as I have never seen the word in print! Just heard my family speak it. Thanks for helping me out here!




			
				CharlieD said:
			
		

> The pirozhki, what kind do you make? I make both the pastry dough and the yeast kind. But really prefer the pastry, first of all for the taste and second of all, for convenience to be able to buy ready made frozen pastry dough.


 
OK, the kind I make is homemade dough, with various fillings. Mostly we make the potato and cheese filled ones because that is what the kids will eat! I have made the sauerkraut ones and cottage cheese filled ones. No one but me will eat those ones though! I also make some dessert ones with blueberry or apple filling.


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## CharlieD

Borscht Cold, red.



Perfect for hot summer day.



Water -3 quarts

Onion finely chopped or diced – 1

Potato – 2-3

Carrots – 2-3

Beets – 1-2 (could be canned, but not pickled)

Cabbage I buy coleslaw salad – 1-2 cups.

Salt to taste.

A sour salt also known as citric acid or lemon juice also to taste.

Egg – 1 



For garnish: 



Green onion

Radishes

Cucumber

Hard boiled egg

Sour cream





Start by boiling the whole beets and onion. While beets are cooking peel all the vegetable and cut slice or grate anyway you like your veggies in soup. I cut potatoes in cubes and grate the carrots, at the end when beets are ready I grate them too.

When beets are close to be ready put potato in, let it cook for few minutes, then carrots, then cabbage. Let it cook till veggies are done, about 20 minutes or so. During cooking take, the beets out and grate them and add back into soup. If you are using canned beets, grate them and add some time after carrots. Add salt to taste, right before soup is ready add a pinch of sour salt or juice of maybe a quarter or a half of a lemon. It should have just a hint of tartness but not to be sour or tart at all. 



At that time, I take a bowl of just liquid and let it cool. Beat the raw egg in a separate bowl and slowly add the warm soup into it stirring constantly so egg doesn’t cook, it has to dissolve in the soup. Not sure, what the process is called in English. Add this mixture back to the pot, again stirring to make sure that egg doesn’t get cooked. It can be done when Borscht cooled down a bit. Now put in refrigerator and let it cool completely. I like to eat it when its room temperature or slightly below that. Some people like it very cold. 

To serve garnish the bowl of Borscht with a t-spoon of sour cream, finely chopped green onions, cucumbers, radishes, sliced boiled egg, or any other fresh veggies that you like. Or don’t put anything. Now this is how I like to eat it, some people tell me I’m weird, but never the less it tastes great. I serve the borscht with a slice of good bread, with some sour cream spread on it and couple of slices of smoked salmon, also known as lox. What a treat on a hot day. This is a meal in it self. There are plenty of calories to keep you going till evening. The whole preparation takes about an hour, and if you use canned beets then it’s even less.



Enjoy.


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## CharlieD

Alix, I'm not sure about Holuptsi with thre grain. Also I make mine out of fresh cabage.

  As far as pirozhki goes I do pretty much the same. I do love the meat ones, the cabage and the green onion egg mixture, but just like in your case I'm the only one eating it. My wife likes potato and kids of course like jem/jelly filling.


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## CharlieD

Expatgirl asked me Borscht recipe, which I do not have on paper yet, but here is an ingreedient that could be made in advance.

...  in Russian it’s called Priprava (an additive, hm, kind of). I actually use it for many soups, meat dishes, it’s great with spaghetti. Here it goes. 

10 red bell peppers
10 hot peppers (depends on size and on heat, I like it medium spicy if you like it really hot add more)
2-3 heads of garlic
2 medium to large parsnip roots or parsley (you will need more parsley because root is usually smaller)
2 table spoons kosher salt (I think in Russia it is plain rock salt)

 Wash and clean the seeds out of peppers (again the hot pepper seeds will add heat, so if you like it you can just leave them in). The best thing to use is meat grinder if not you can use food processor but do not grind to fine; it should still remain some what coarse. Put everything thru the grinder then add salt and mix well. Salt works as the preservative. Put in containers, glass ones are the best. Keep in refrigerator. It will keep for whole winter. I do it when peppers are cheap. Double batch will last me till new crop.


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## AllenOK

CharlieD said:
			
		

> I'm sure you're not.
> 
> Okay here is one i have translated. Though it really is not a summer dish:
> 
> Zharkoe:
> 
> 
> 
> That is Ukrainian meat stew
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a Dutch oven? You are going to need one.
> 
> 
> I use either chicken or short ribs, or stew meet; shank is really good.
> My Dutch oven is pretty big, I can cook probably up to 6-7 pounds of meat.
> 
> So lets say:
> 
> 3-31/2 lb meat of your choosing;
> 
> Or 1 whole chicken or chicken parts about that weight
> 1 large or 2 medium onions.
> 2-3-tb spoons oil
> ½ t baking soda
> 1-2 quarts boiling water
> Salt, pepper to taste.




Charlie, could you please enlighten me as to what the baking soda does when you add it to the sauteed onions?  I've never seen baking soda used like that.


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## mish

Charlie, will you marry me?!  just kidding.  Many of the foods you mention I haven't had since my grandma passed away  Being of European descent Hungarian/Polish, dishes were called by different names, but still the same as the dishes you mentioned.  Wish I had written down the recipes.  Can't find the same homemade tastes in restaurants. Thank you.


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## CharlieD

Mish, there are some prety dicent restaurants in NY, Brooklin, Little Russia, you know. If you are ever there try them out. Oh, wait a minute you are in CA, go to LA there a lot of good russian restaurants there, or San Francisko, there too. 

Okay, fine when I'm visiting my in laws in Sacraento I'll invite you over, where are you in CA? PM me, will set a date. My will not mind


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## CharlieD

It will induce the brown color and in turn will help make meat look more brown, basicaly it just for looks.


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## AllenOK

_*Slaps forehead_

D'Oh!

I forgot about the sugar in the onions reacting with the baking soda.


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## CharlieD




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## BreezyCooking

I wish I could get my husband to eat beets, especially borscht.  He's 100% Ukranian.  Both his parents emigrated here from the Ukraine way back when.

While he does enjoy cheese pierogies, he'd rather eat worms & die than eat anything containing beets.


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## mudbug

BreezyCooking said:
			
		

> I wish I could get my husband to eat beets, especially borscht. He's 100% Ukranian. Both his parents emigrated here from the Ukraine way back when.
> 
> While he does enjoy cheese pierogies, he'd rather eat worms & die than eat anything containing beets.


 
LOL, Breezy - I'm 50% Cajun and hate okra.


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## Dawnsey

Charlie D, I didn't see the recipe for the pastry pirozhki - would love to compare it those I remember as a child.  Would you please share?


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## CharlieD

Pastry pirozhki are very simple. I just buy pastry dough. For filling you can do what ever your immagination allows you. Cut the square, put filling in the middle fold into tringle. Bake in the oven for 20 or so minutes.


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## urmaniac13

CharlieD said:
			
		

> Pastry pirozhki are very simple. I just buy pastry dough. For filling you can do what ever your immagination allows you. Cut the square, put filling in the middle fold into tringle. Bake in the oven for 20 or so minutes.


 
What kind of pastry dough do you use? I really enjoyed pirozhki too, but I have to say the source of the product I had wasn't anything remotely russian or ukranian or any of the related area, so their authenticity was much in doubt. They were more like a savoury fried filled donuts. (Thus, as you can see, something obviously very different!) So I am very curious of the real pirozhki...


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## buckytom

charlie, i was surprised to see that you bake your pirozhki/pierogi.

my mil always fried them, in lots of butter, with sweated onions.

they were traditionally served with sour cream, apple sauce, and either cold or hot red cabbage slaw.

my wife would love the idea of baked pirozhki, being the health nut she is, always on the lookout for fat/calorie reducing methods of cooking.

how do you serve yours?


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## Robt

Thanks for a great thread.  Charlie, I assume the Tomatoes are whole? The pickling seems a straight forward fermentation.  Does one eat them as a side to other dishes or how are they used on Ukrainain tables?

I think 5 gal. may be a bit much for my first try but, I have to try this.  Thanks again.


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## CharlieD

Pirozhki come in many varieties. There are deep fried ones, fried ones, baked bread type dough, baked pastry type dough. The baked ones I described above I make using Pepperidge Farm pastry dough. It comes frozen in the package here, it is the same type of dough as used for Napoleon (in case you need to find something similar)

The deep fried pirozhki I make are somewhat time-consuming. I use home made dough. It is yeast dough, so it takes time to rise. 

I've never had pirozhki served with sour cream. Are you sure you are not talking about pirogy, Buckytom?

Robt, yes the tomatoes are whole and usually served as a side for meat dish. Instead of steak sauce or ketchup, or even instead of salad, but you just eat it with the entree.  And yes, you can scale it down and make one gallon.


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## Claire

MIL learned to make what she called halupke (Like most of you, I'm spelling phonetically -- countries, cultures, and even alphabets are so different that you can't keep track) from her Ruthenian mother.  Good Grief!  Hubby says the zhinkrove (pieroge) he used to eat as a kid was made with a filling of mashed potatoes.  We're talking poor people food here, it was a meal for (a) people who couldn't afford meat or (b) lent.  It was boiled and then had butter drizzled over it, then toasted bread crumbs.  He and his cousins used to call them "sinkers" because they were so heavy!

I've made many versions of cabbage rolls over the years, adopting various turns on it from Polish, Slovene, Slovak, Russian, etc, friends.  Pierogi I don't do much.


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## BreezyCooking

Lol!!  "Sinkers" are what our family calls our traditional Czech Bread Dumplings.  Actually, since they're nearly always served with sauerkraut, they're more often known as  "Sinkers with Grass".


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## CharlieD

David Cottrell said:


> ...Ukrainian cooking is that spices are very lightly used if at all. Salt and pepper...


 
You are very much so correct. Not only there were very little of any fancy spices, only if you were lucky enough to go to one of the southern republics or Georgia at least during the summer and there you’d pick up some spices. Otherwise it was salt and black pepper or red pepper (which I have no clue where it came from). As far as herbs go: dill and parsley and parsley root during the summer, maybe few other roots, i.e. horseradish and its leaves. Gosh I can’t think of anything else. Bay leaves. Allspice, cloves. That is it. I can’t remember anything else. People used a lot of leaves, like black currant leaves, sour cherry leaves. Sorel leaves, spinach was not popular at all. A dandelion leaves. 

Even such simple things like bell peppers were brought in from Bulgaria or Hungry. 

Not having any of the fancy herbs or spices however did not make the food tasty boring or tasteless. Ukrainian foods are really incredible and extremely versatile. For may-many ethnic foods there is something similar in Ukrainian cosine. I.e. won tons – pirogy (vareniki). Italian meatballs in tomato sauce – Ukrainian meatballs in meat sauce. Hamburger – kotlety. I can’t think of anything else right now. You give me a name of food _ I’ll find something similar.


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## David Cottrell

Way to go Charlie and everyone who has responded to this thread. This is great! I hope you don't mind a gringo like me chiming in from time to time. If you have the patience for it I could post Olga Bondar's awesome Spartacus cake (tort) - her family recipe named for a striped candy, Sparta, that was a childhood favorite of her's. She sent me some with a book she brought back from a recent trip back "home" to Kiev. I wrote the recipe for a non cook like me, especially a non baker, but I could shorten up a bit for those more experienced. I haven't met anyone who doesn't like it and I've made it about six times and shared widly.


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## CharlieD

Fire away. It doesn't have to be my recipes, it should be ukrainian recipes.


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## David Cottrell

buckytom said:


> charlie, i was surprised to see that you bake your pirozhki/pierogi.
> 
> my mil always fried them, in lots of butter, with sweated onions.
> 
> they were traditionally served with sour cream, apple sauce, and either cold or hot red cabbage slaw.
> 
> my wife would love the idea of baked pirozhki, being the health nut she is, always on the lookout for fat/calorie reducing methods of cooking.
> 
> how do you serve yours?


 
Buckytom, I'm, wondering what would be most traditional - fried or baked. I'm going back to when those old large tile wood fired stoves/ovens were the standard, and are still in use. Would frying or baking be easier I wonder. You know the stoves - the one that the devil hid behind in Tolstoy's "How Much Land Does One Man Need?"

I have a YouTube link to a young lady cooking in her rural village kitchen that has that stove. I'll post the link if anyone would like for me to.


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## David Cottrell

While I'm here I might as well post the YouTube link to the village kitchen in Ukraine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH25ZbAB7Rc Hope it works for you. For folks like me who haven't been there and probably now (just got older today  won't go on Books by Volunteers who serve Ukraine Orphans are a carefully selected group of YouTube links to Ukraine, you might enjoy. Just click on the Ukraine Links tab and at the bottom of the first links page are links to the YouTube collections. 
See you in cyber space! D


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## *amy*

This is very similar to the way my (Hungarian) grandmother prepared pierogie. They were served with more sauteed onions, butter & sour cream.

YouTube - Pierogi - Polish potato filled dumplings


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## expatgirl

Charlie D., what a great thread!!  I forgot to tell you but my hubby and I made your borscht recipe and it was wonderful.  Like you and your DW we had to compromise on the beets to potatos ratio---I like less beets he likes more and vice versa with potatos.  I love Ukrainian food---they make the best soups!!


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## CharlieD

Yes they sure do. Ukranians really know how to cook. They like to eat and they like to cook. People going to scream at me, but russians don't know how to cook period. Schee, yech, yuk. 

I'm glad you liked the borscht. Did you make that special addition? The peppers?


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## David Cottrell

Charlie! What are you trying to do - start WWWIII?? With the energy thing in Ukraine, NATO, and all that. You know as well as I do that the Russians claim all the good stuff! Surely they invented something good to eat, but being the younger brother to Ukraine maybe not.  Oh my! I better go wash my mouth out with soap.


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## CharlieD

That's the thing they do claim a lot. Like for example first airplane, first VCR, well the list is endless. I'm sure they had some good recipes alone the way. But there was a bigger, better, much tastier one in Ukraine. Russians just do not like eating as much as Ukrainians. That is of course doesn't say anything good about Ukrainians, because food is the only thing on their minds.


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## CharlieD

how do add this to favorits?


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## Robt

I didn't know that DC had that ability.  I just right click and add the link  on the first page of this thread to my bookmarks/ Favorites where I have a folder for DC.

Funny, I saw your recipe for Green Tomatoes yesterday and did a search for this link as I hadn't book marked it 2 yrs ago.  Then you posted and I got an email.  This is one of the great threads on DC.  Thanks to Kitchenelf for starting it and you for your huge contributions, and all the rest who kicked in as well.


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## CharlieD

Thank you, you are very kind.


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## CharlieD

Unbelievable. I just realized I do not have recipe for cabbage rolls. How could it be?  I don’t know, but I better make one up fast.

Here it goes. 

Cabbage rolls also known as golubtsi in Ukraine.
Ingredients needed:
(approximately)

Cabbage whole
Beef ¼ lb
Chicken, better to use dark meat ¼ lb
Carrots 4-5
Onion 2-3 
Tomato sauce 1 can
Mayo 2-3 table spoons
Garlic few cloves
Salt
Pepper
Paprika
Eggs 2
Precooked rice, about ½ way ready, a cup or so
Water for cooking
Some oil of your choice for frying

Make filling. I use only beef and/or chicken, make it half and half for the best result, and I do like to grind meat myself. I have a meat grinder, just for that (well hamburgers too).  I do not have exact measurements. Say you are making one pound of meat mixture.  Grind meat, 1 onion, 2-3 cloves of garlic, together intermittently. I mean not just one thing at ones, do piece of meat, little onion, little garlic, repeat. Then the mixture will mix better and will have more even taste (can I say that). Add 1 table spoon of mayo, 2 eggs, rice and salt/pepper/paprika to taste. Mix well. 
The cabbage has a part of the root left inside. It needs to be carefully removed. Cut it out with a paring knife. Then put the whole thing into cold water, with the hole up, use a big pot, and bring it to a boil. Boil for 3-5 minutes. Remove cabbage from water, you can put under cold running water for few minutes. Then start removing leaves carefully so not to break them. After boiling they should be plenty soft. Set aside. 
I do not discard the hot water the cabbage was boiled in. 

Dice the rest of the onion; shred the carrots using grater, or buy shredded carrots to begin with. Sauté the onion till soft, add shredded carrots sauté together till carrots are soft season with salt/pepper/paprika. 
Now you ready to actually make cabbage rolls/golubtsi. Take some of the above mixture and spread on the bottom of the pot, it will prevent the cabbage rolls from sticking to the bottom of the pot or burning, also it will add an amazing flavor. Put the table spoon of filling into every cabbage leaf and fold it like an envelope or roll it like a egg roll, well as long as it is closed in some way you are good. I’m not coming with inspection. Start layering them on the bottom of the pot. After first layer add some more of onion carrots mix and add another layer of cabbage rolls, cover with the rest of the mixture, you probably done by now. 
Mix 1 can of tomato sauce, couple spoons of mayo, add the hot boiled water you have. You need enough liquid to barely cover the cabbage rolls, maybe even a bit less. Bring it to boil, cover tightly and cook for couple of hours a medium to low heat. Open the lid after that cook for another half an hour open so most, of the water or at least half of it evaporates. During cooking check the water for taste, adjust seasoning if need it. The time and temps might vary, you’ll have to adjust. Done. 

Now, in all honestly I only do this when I expect guests. For my family where nobody eats cabbage, even me. I make lazy cabbage rolls. Which really are not rolls but simple meatballs. I buy cole slaw instead of cabbage and when I cook onion and carrots I also add cabbage into that mixture. The slaw cooks really fast so you only have add it right before, maybe 5 minutes before onion and carrots are done. Then I do the same thing use layer of that mixture and form the meat filling into regular size (whatever the size you like) meatballs.
Everything else is the same. 

A note: if I have chicken fat on hand I like to add that to beef instead of chicken, works wonders. 

I


----------



## David Cottrell

Awwwwww some. Thanks teacher. I appreciate the hard work.


----------



## CharlieD

Thanks, I am far from being a teacher. First of all I am too mean, second of all I cannot spell.


----------



## David Cottrell

CharlieD said:


> Thanks, I am far from being a teacher. First of all I am too mean, second of all I cannot spell.


 You're right on both counts, but you are a good teacher!


----------



## LPBeier

I think you are a good teacher too, Charlie.  This is probably as close as I will ever get to my "adopted" Ukrainian Grandma's cabbage rolls which I love!  Thanks so much.  It will also give me more leverage with DH to get the meat grinder attachment for my KA Pro!


----------



## gabagoo

any recipes for cabbage borscht?  I used to love my grandma's but have never found one as good since


----------



## CharlieD

Check the first page in this thread. Borscht is there.


----------



## CharlieD

I could write the fallowing recipe my self, but I really would nor be able to explain as well as Sara Molton does. I pretty much fallow the same recipe.

*Chicken Kiev*

Recipe courtesy Sara Moulton

_4 whole chicken breasts with first joint of the wings attached, halved, boned, and skinned_
_Herb butter, recipe follows_
_Flour, for dredging_
_2 large eggs, beaten with 2 teaspoons water_
_1 cup homemade bread crumbs_
_1/4 cup vegetable oil_

“French” the chicken wing bones by scraping the meat off the bones with a sharp knife and reserving the meat for another use, detach the fillet strip from each breast, and flatten the breasts and the fillets between sheets of dampened wax paper until they are about 1/4-inch thick. 
Arrange the chicken breasts skinned side down on a work surface, in the center of each mound 2 tablespoons of the herb butter, and cover the mixture with a fillet strip. Fold up the sides of the breasts to enclose the herb butter, forming the chicken into a “chop”. Dredge the chops carefully in the flour, shaking off the excess, dip them in the egg mixture, and dredge them in the bread crumbs, patting the mixture onto the flesh. Arrange the chops on a rack set over a pan and chill the, uncovered, for at least 1 hour or overnight to let the crumbs dry. In a large heavy skillet, heat the oil over moderate heat until it is hot but not smoking. Brown the chops, transferring them as they are browned to a baking pan. Bake them in a preheated 350 degree oven for 20 minutes. The chicken may be kept warm, covered loosely, for up to 10 minutes. 

_Herb Butter:_

_1 stick unsalted butter, softened_
_1 tablespoons minced fresh chives_
_1 tablespoons minced fresh parsley leaves_
_2 teaspoons minced fresh tarragon leaves_
_1 teaspoon Dijon-style mustard _
_Salt and pepper, to taste_

In a small bowl cream together the butter, the chives, the parsley, the tarragon, the mustard, and salt and pepper to taste. Let the butter stand, covered, in a cool place for 1 hour to allow the flavors to develop. 

Yield: 4 servings
Prep Time: 30 minutes
Cook Time: 2 hours 50 minutes


----------



## CharlieD

Kievskyi Tort:

Split egg whites from egg yolks as carefully as you can. Let the egg whites stay at room temperature for about 24 hours and then whip them 20-25 minutes to increase their volume 4-5 times. When you receive snow-like fluffy foam out of egg whites, add carefully chopped fried nuts mixed with sugar and flour. Mix all together to get a plain substance. And immediately put the substance on the cooking sheets dividing it in two 6-7 mm pieces. Bake them in the oven at 100-120 degrees Celsius for two or two and a half hour. Let them cool. Put butter cream in between the two of them, cover the top with chocolate cream (2-3 mm), decorate with some pink or white cream, or jam. 
For the cake pieces you need: egg whites of 10 eggs, 1 glass of sugar, 1 glass of chopped nuts, 3 table spoons of flour, vanilla. 
For butter cream: 2/3 glass of sugar, 150 gram butter, 1 egg yolk, 1/2 glass milk, 1 table spoon brandy, vanilla. 
For chocolate cream: 1/3 glass of sugar, 70 grams butter, 1/3 glass milk, 2 table spoons cacao powder, 2 tablespoons brandy. 
The cake will weigh 1 kilogram.


----------



## CharlieD

Schav 
(spinach soup)
one of the easiest things to make.

Do you want hot or cold? In reality it doesn’t matter. 

You can use chicken or beef. I like everything chicken, simply because I like chicken better than beef. In any case start by making a regular clear broth chicken or beef doesn’t matter. Do it the way you would make any soup. 

Prepare, clean, peal, chop, dice, anyway you like (I like everything diced finely) onion, potato, carrots and frozen spinach (in reality you need sorrel (“a sharp-tasting plant of the dock family, used for salad greens and in medicines”) for this soup, but it is simply not available in Minnesota, to compensate for the real taste you need to add a little bit of sour taste).

For example: it takes 1 hour from the time chicken boils to the time it is ready. 
After meat boiled (or actually a second or two before that) immediately turn the heat down and continue to simmer (soup should never boil). 20 minutes before meat is done add all your veggies. 5 minutes before soup is done taste and season, or actually re-season, because when chickened boiled and you picked of all that yucky dirty foam on the top and you already put the salt and pepper in (right?). I use sour salt, but a little bit of lemon juice will work as well, like a table spoon or so (that is for a 3 quart pot of soup or more). The first time you make it, don’t even bother adding anything, try it, you may just like it as is. Done.

If you want to make cold schav you do not use meat, basically you will make a vegetarian soup. Just boil your veggies; a bullion cube wouldn’t hurt, of course. 
When soup is done take out couple of ladles of liquid only, let it cool down, in the mean time open an egg and beat like for a scramble egg. Very slowly whisk the egg into the liquid. Make sure it is not too hot or egg will cook, you do not want that. Egg is use to make soup look some what white. In Russian it was called “zabelit’” to make it white. I think it’s called tempering in English, might wrong. When done add the mixture back to soup, stir it well. Serve it cold with some sour cream.


----------



## CharlieD

Sour cream cake
(a.k.a. Smetannik)

Dough:

1 cup sugar
1 cup sour cream 
2.5 cups (about) flour.
½ t baking soda mixed with vinegar until reaction stops.
Cocoa powder approximate, no real measure depends on brand/type. 

Icing/Frosting:

2.5 cups sugar
2 lb sour cream (use the brand that makes the heaviest, thickest sour cream, so it doesn’t run when assembling the cake)
1t vanilla.


Directions:

Make frosting first by mixing above ingredients together until sugar is completely dissolved.

For the dough. Mix sugar and sour cream until sugar is dissolved add flower. Add baking soda/vinegar mix (could substitute with baking powder, but I don’t know how much). The dough should be soft, but hard enough so you can roll it out. Divide into half. Now, my mother adds cocoa powder after she mixed the dough, she kind of works the powder into it. I can never do as good of a job, so I divide everything before hand and add cocoa powder before mixing. That is where the type of cocoa will make a difference. Russian brands are ground very finely, and give rich chocolaty color. And that is what you want. Unfortunately I have not been able to find a good substitute. Mixed dough should be divided into 6 even pieces. 3 with cocoa and 3 without. When assembling the cake you will have to stock them. It’s kind of for looks when cake is cut. In all the truth the cocoa step could be skipped. But then it’s not the same cake.


----------



## justplainbill

Charlie, does the 6 - 7 mm refer to the thickness of the cake pieces?  After 2 - 2 1/2 hours at 230F, I guess the cake pieces must be pretty crunchy.  Is it ok to lightly toast the nuts instead of frying them?  What kind of nuts do you recommend?

How big around (diameter) should the 2.2  pound cake be?


----------



## CharlieD

Did I say2 1/2 hours, oh, you are asking about the Kievsky tort and I am looking at the last one.
Yes the thickness is about a 1/4 of an inch. The temp is about 212 - 230. It is baked lik a meringue (sp?) Yes they will be crunchy but the cream will penetrate and make them soft. Yes, the toasting is the word I was looking for but could not remeber, thank you. Cashews are used in the original recipe.
Diameter should be around 10-12 inches.


----------



## CharlieD

Ok the sour cake recipe just did not make sence. Here is edited version:

Sour cream cake
(a.k.a. Smetannik)

 Dough:

1 cup sugar
1 cup sour cream 
2.5 cups (about) flour.
½ t baking soda mixed with vinegar until reaction stops.
Cocoa powder approximate, no real measure depends on brand/type. 

Icing/Frosting:

2.5 cups sugar
2 lb sour cream (use the brand that makes the heaviest, thickest sour cream, so it doesn’t run when assembling the cake)
1t vanilla.


Directions:

Make frosting first by mixing above ingredients together until sugar is completely dissolved.

For the dough. Mix sugar and sour cream until sugar is dissolved add flower. Add baking soda/vinegar mix (could substitute with baking powder, but I don’t know how much). The dough should be soft, but hard enough so you can roll it out. Divide into half. Now, my mother adds cocoa powder after she mixed the dough, she kind of works the powder into it. I can never do as good of a job, so I divide everything before hand and add cocoa powder before mixing. That is where the type of cocoa will make a difference. Russian brands are ground very finely, and give rich chocolaty color. And that is what you want. Unfortunately I have not been able to find a good substitute.  Mixed dough should be divided into 6 even pieces. 3 with cocoa and 3 without. When assembling the cake you will have to stock them. It’s kind of for looks when cake is cut. In all the truth the cocoa step could be skipped. But then it’s not the same cake. 

P.S. ok, I really have to fix this. After dough is divided into 6 pieces you should roll them out to fit a 10 or 12 inch frying an. That is what you should use for baking. Spray the bottom of the pan with some oil, Pam, whatever you have, you could sprinkle some breadcrumbs so it will come out easier when done, prevent sticking. Bake at about 350 deg for about 10-15 minutes. Depending on the size of the pan you use and your oven. The baked layer should be cooked thru but soft. It is good idea to pock the holes before baking it. I use fork and just pock the holes all over. The pizza roller could be used. 
Start by baking the dark piece. Don’t ask that is what everybody has been doing. While it is baking prepare a serving dish, preferably round, spread some of the frosting on the bottom. When the first piece of crust, can I call that crust is ready, placed on the serving dish, spread some more frosting. Bake the crusts alternatively (sp?), white and chocolate ones. Layer one on the top of the other spreading the frosting. When the last one is done and placed on the top of the cake, using a fork, poke a whole bunch of holes thru the cake, so the frosting can sip in. Spread the rest of the frosting on the top and the sides. You can decorate anyway you like. I am not a very good decorator so I just grate some chocolate and sprinkle heavily on the top. The cake should seat on the counter for at least 24 hours so the frosting penetrates really well. Then put in the refrigerator for another 2 days, don’t worry it is not going to go bed, it will only get better. After that you can serve it. Cut into little pieces, I guarantee you people will not be able to eat too much of it. It is very heavy, but it is heavenly.


----------



## frozenstar

Nice recipe!  That sounds exciting..  Thanks!


----------



## CharlieD

Kartoflianiki
Potato piroshky is a closest translation I can come up with. 
You can make this from leftovers or premade all needed ingredients. Personally I make this whenever I have some sort of cooked meat leftover. You will need a meat grinder for this, though food processor could also be used, maybe.
Put the meat thru meat grinder, if meat is dry I usually sauté some onion just until soft and add to the mixture, make sure that mixture is well seasoned.
Then I boil whole potato with skin on. That will keep the starch in. When potato cooked, let it cool down somewhat, so you can work with it. Peel the skin and put the potato thru the meat grinder. For 3-4 medium potatoes you will need couple eggs and 1-2 table spoons flour. Season with some salt and pepper and mix well. The mixture should be somewhat sticky and somewhat dry at the same time. Almost like dough, sort of.
When this is ready preheat some oil in the frying pan, not too much. Now it’s time to form the “piroshky”, when done they should look like a knish, or a doughnut, but kind of oblong. 
Wet your hands, that will help with potato Not sticking to your hands, take some potato mixture flatten it in your hand, somewhat round, add a spoon fool of meat mixture in the middle. Now it is time to close it. Pinch all the ends together, flatten it somewhat and onto the frying pan it goes. You can make them as big as you want or as small as you want. Fry on both side till golden brown. Remember everything is cooked so it only needs to be heated up. 
Note: you could use leftover mashed potato, not a problem, may have to just add a little bit more flour to make it stick together.


----------



## CharlieD

Pork shoulder.

Take a nice chink of pork shoulder. No bones, not too much fat.
Prepare seasoning. Mix (approximately) equal parts of salt, coarsely ground black pepper and paprika. Crash some bay leaves and lots of garlic, add to the mixture too. Liberally spread all over the meat even poke some deep holes and stuff the mixture inside. Wrap the hole thin in foil. It doesn’t have to be wrapped tight, but make sure that it is closed tight so during the cooking the juices will not run out. If meat is very lean you can smother some mayo over the meat, if there is enough fat, don’t bother with mayo. 
Cook like you would cook pork roast, until done. Take it out of the oven cool it down and the n put in the fridge until cold. When cold slice thinly like a cold cut, if you want to be really unhealthy spread some of the fat that is congealed by now on a piece of bread add the meat and some good mustard, enjoy your sandwich with whatever else you might like to add to it.


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## CharlieD

Picture is not mine, I do not eat or cook pork.


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## CharlieD

This recipe is not from Ukrainian cuisine and also I simplified it a lot. So it is more a recipe, as they say about the movies, “inspired” by the original recipe called Kchachapuri, from Georgian cuisine, I mean Georgia the country not the state.
Ingredients
 
Pastry dough – 2sheets
Cheese any kind as much as you would like about a pound or more.
Some freshly grated garlic 2-3-4 cloves or to your liking
2-3 eggs plus 1 one for glazing and closing.
Salt and pepper to taste.
A pack of pastry dough. There are two sheets per Pepperidge farm brand package. You will have to roll it out slightly so it doesn’t rise too much. Make both sheets the same size. 
I like to buy couple of different kinds of cheese and mix them together, also and that is from original recipe I like to add feta cheese, the original cheese is called Suluguni, you can find it in the Russian store, if you have one around, but feta works just as well.  Mix cheese, eggs, garlic, salt and pepper together spread on one sheet, leaving about ¾ of an inch of the pastry dough uncovered. Make the egg wash and using the pastry brush, brush the uncover ends. Spread the second sheet on the top. Try to make sure you push the air out as you cover it. Using a fork pock bunch of holes in the top sheet, so there is way for air to escape during baking. Using same fork pinch the ends together all around. Use the rest of the egg was h to brush the top; a little pinch of salt added to egg will help to make the top look shiny.
Bake per instruction on the box, or until the dough is baked to your liking. I like it on a bit overdone side, kind of dark golden brown.


----------



## CharlieD

Imitation crab Salad

Salad:

1 potato
2 carrots
2 hard boiled eggs
½ cup canned sweet pees
1-2 cup imitation crab.
1-2 table spoon mayo
Salt to taste.

1 small to medium Granny Smith apple or
1 cucumber 
1 pickle.

( Last 3 items I do not use, but my mom interchangeably uses them, depending on her mood )

Boil potato in skin, carrots (I peel them before cooking), eggs. Let it cool down so you can work with them. Peel potato and eggs. I like to dice all the items very small. Mix together; add salt and mayo mix it. Yum. Add one spoon of mayo first and try, you may or may not want to add the second spoon, or maybe even third.


----------



## CharlieD

SALMON SALAD.

Ingredients:

Salmon, pink or red, canned (or cooked) 1-2 cans

Potatoes 2-3

Carrots 2-3

Green peas 1-2 cans

Beets 1-2 cans  

Hard boiled eggs 3-4

Mayo 1 cup or so.

Little bit of water and or lemon juice to dissolve the mayo.

Salt and Pepper to taste


A tip. It works the best when you have the same amount of each ingredient and double amount of salmon (separately)


- boil potato with skin on. Peel them after they cool off. 
- peel and boil carrots
- hard boiled eggs.
- canned beets (or you can boil one yourself.  I don't like to do it because it takes too long), but don't use the pickled kind, they have too much vinegar in them.

All of the above can be cooked day in advance and diced or even grated on the big hole grater.

-canned peas.

optional: you can use any vegetables you like i.e. onion or green onion, corn, pickles or cucumbers, some people even put apples. 

-Pink or red salmon - 1 can

(Red tastes better but is more expensive, so I usually get one of each and mix it together). Fish comes with some bones.  Make sure to discard them. Or you can simply bake filet of salmon for about 15 minutes and use then instead of canned stuff.
Mix it well with a fork. I’m a lazy person J and do not like to chew, so I try to mush all my food.   After that, set the spread in the middle of the serving plate and pour the mayonnaise mixture over it. Make sure to cover fish completely, it looks better when served.

-mayonnaise should be dissolved (a little bit) with water and/or lemon juice. Do not add too much juice so as not to overpower the taste of the vegetables and fish. Mayo should be liquid enough to spread over salmon but not too liquid so it runs off.

Put all the prepared veggies in a scoop around the fish. Make it look pretty by putting them in order and somewhat color coordinated. 

Serve like that. It looks very pretty. After everybody stop commenting how beautiful the dish is season and mix it well all together.

Looks beautiful before it was mixed and tastes good after it is mixed, though it doesn’t look that good anymore.


----------



## CharlieD

In the  Imitation crab Salad, substitude the imitation crab for diced chicken, or beef, or cold cuts, or any and all in any combination together. Yum.


----------



## CharlieD

So what it is an old thread, what if I have something to say.


----------



## CharlieD

Piroshki
1 egg
2 packs quick rising yeast
2 cups milk
A pinch of sugar and 2 of salt
4 ½ cups flour plus more for kneading
Plus oil for kneading

Warm up the milk a little bit. Add sugar, egg, yeast, and mix well. Slowly add flour mixing well. After adding all flour kneed for few minutes, until dough comes off of the walls of the container you are using. Cover with the towel. Let it rise in a worm place. It should at least double in size. When that happens push the dough down, knead for another minute divide into small portions. Like a golf ball size, flatten it put the mixture in pinch to close, fry in oil seam side down first.


----------



## NoraC

CharlieD said:


> Schav
> (spinach soup)
> one of the easiest things to make.
> 
> Do you want hot or cold? In reality it doesn’t matter.



Thank you! It IS schav and I hadn't had it in 32 years.  BTW, you can grow sorel in MN; get the seeds from Cook's Garden and plant them in a window box or flower pot, if you don't have garden space; it is a near weed.


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## David Cottrell

CharlieD said:


> So what it is an old thread, what if I have something to say.


 Say away old man!  It just so happens that I will copy your piroshki recipe to my recipe files, many of which are from you. 

I just received a nice cook book from my Ukrainian granddaughter, her g-dmother and g-dmother's daughter. A birthday present - Украинская Кухня - Ukrainian Cuisine. 

Not knowing how to read Russian I started with Rabbit stuffed with Rice. I abandoned that and am copying Onion with Milk in Cyrillic so I can take it to google translator to turn into English. Seems that it would be simplier to learn Russian doesn't it. Why Ukrainian Cusine written in Russian? We won't go into it here.


----------



## David Cottrell

By the way Charlie, how about a couple of suggestions for the mixture to put in the piroshki. Будь ласка.


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## CharlieD

DW wants PC, will do it tomorow, I hope.


----------



## Bolas De Fraile

Charlie mate I am 70% through this fantastic thread, the pickled toms is a must try in september.


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## Zhizara

Bolas De Fraile said:


> Charlie mate I am 70% through this fantastic thread, the pickled toms is a must try in september.



I agree.  I'm glad you bumped it, Charlie.


----------



## CharlieD

As far as mixture to put into piroshky. Traditional are meat, potato, jam/preserves, farmer’s cheese, cabbage, split pea, green onion and egg mixture.
I like to prepare meat specifically for it, but have used plenty of leftovers. I’d collect leftovers meat. Sautee some onions, grind and mix all together. To stretch it you can add some cooked rice, or my grandma's favorite was hardboiled egg. Just make sure that whatever you decide to put in tastes good. Because it is going to make piroshky either taste good or not. Potato I boil in skin, peel add sauté onion, salt pepper to taste and grind thru the meat grinder. Mix well, you're good to go. Farmers cheese is though less common but doable. Just add some salt or sugar to the mixture; you can even add an egg to keep it more together. Cabbage. I stew the cabbage with salt and some pepper till it is soft and started to look somewhat brownish then it is ready to go. You can add some sour croute to fresh cabbage as you cook it, but not too much.
Split peas should be cooked to the consistency of porridge. Jam or preserves has to be nearly hard. I make special one just for that reason. I purposely over cook it so it becomes not hard, but for sure tough. Then it will not run out from the inside during cooking. And the last one I use is egg and green onion mixture. It is practically an omelet with chopped green onion. Again make it taste good. Sauté some onions add egg, let it set, cook till it is hard, but do not burn. Do not chop or anything, simply cut pieces of big or small enough to put inside the dough. You might need to sprinkle a little bit of flour on it because it is wet the dough is not going to want to close on you and might open up during frying. Same with cabbage.


----------



## David Cottrell

*More possibilities than I thought!*

Thanks Charlie, I got it!


----------



## CharlieD

*Solianka* 
is the meal in a bowl. A simplified version of more complex Russian recipe for *Solianka*.

Ingredients:

Crosscut shank with bone in - 3.5 - 4 lb

Large carrots, grated – 2

Parsnip, small to average, grated - 1

Large onion finely chopped – 1

Pickle, for G-ds sake use the dill not the vinegar pickle, I don’t know how people eat them anyway, large – 2

Olives, I mixed green and black chopped ones together – 1 cup
(My family doesn’t like olives, if you do - do not chop them at all)

Tomato sauce – 2 cans

Hot jalapeno pepper, chopped – 1

Sweet red pepper, chopped – 1

Garlic, freshly chopped – 2 cloves

Parsley, dill – about a pinch or more

Lemon, sliced, for serving - 1

Rise – 2 cups

Cold cuts, cut into small cubes or chopped anyway you like about – 2 
Cups

Salt, pepper.

In the large pot cook beef or “the other white meat” (if you like) in about 6 quarts of water, cook uncut. Basically you need good meat base bullion. I use beef and I like to cook it for a long time to make sure the beef is very tender. I like to cook with some salt and freshly ground pepper. After water boils I clean the foam of the top and at that time add onion, carrots and parsnip. And let it simmer till ready. Take the meat out and let it cool. At that time add pickles, olives, tomato sauce or paste, you’ll just need less of it. Hot and sweet pepper and garlic. Let it cook for about 15-20 minutes add rice. Now, about the cold cuts. I keep the whole bunch of them already cut in the freezer. It could be anything, salami and bologna, ham and smoked turkey, leftover of some cooked chicken you had the other day, hotdogs and bratwurst, if you like kidneys and tongue it is even better. Just through all of them into the pot let it cook till they are hot (they really do not have to be cooked, as they are already cooked). When meat gets cold enough to handle cut it into small cubes and add back to soup, together with cold cuts. Taste and adjust for salt and pepper. Soup has to be spicy and with a hint of pickle. I prefer to use hot pepper to make it spicy rather than black pepper. 
For serving you’ll need sour cream or mayo-lemon mixture. I like to mix a little bit of mayo with some lemon juice, add about a half of a teaspoon for a bowl of soup. Slice the lemon and hang a half of a slice on the side of the bowl. For those who will want the soup more tart they will squeeze the juice right into the bowl. Sprinkle some dill and parsley (for the smell) and serve. Now lets see if I can add a picture of it, I made the other day.


----------



## Bolas De Fraile

Keep them coming Charlie, I am interested in how the Ukrainians make Beef Strog.


----------



## CharlieD

Actually pretty much the same everybody else does. Meat, sour cream, noodles.


----------



## CharlieD

Ok, I am trying to upload some pictures and as always I am having trouble.


----------



## CharlieD

These are the pictures of meat filled pirozhki.


----------



## CharlieD

Hm, I wonder why therey are not in order. Weird.


----------



## CharlieD

Ok here is some more.


----------



## CharlieD

And this is a picture of my freshly made pickles.


----------



## David Cottrell

Thanks Charlie for the Solianka recipe and the pirozhki photos.Time for me to put my cooking hat back on - I've slacked off this summer. Would like to see a photo of your solianka. Cheers!!


----------



## DaveSoMD

CharlieD said:


> And this is a picture of my freshly made pickles.



Are those real dill pickles??? Would you share the recipe???  Please???


----------



## David Cottrell

Thanks for the photos Charlie. They do look good!!


----------



## Bolas De Fraile

DaveSoMD said:


> Are those real dill pickles??? Would you share the recipe???  Please???


Me too, great pics and food Chazzer mate.


----------



## PrincessFiona60

Yum, they look really good, Charlie!  And those pickles...I want one!


----------



## vitauta

CharlieD said:


> And this is a picture of my freshly made pickles.



these pickles of yours are just screaming "bite me" at me!  seriously though, charlied, your pickles look way more delish than those deli barrel pickles that so often end up being nothing more than a disappointment....i love to eat homemade pickles at every stage of pickling, from the barely pickled ones, right on through to the end-of-the-winter (sorry) super strong ones....great color, too, charlied.


----------



## CWS4322

Is Schav the soup you mentioned that you can use sorrel instead of spinach? I'm thinking Swiss Chard could be subbed for the spinach as well. Or a combo of all three!


----------



## CharlieD

Those pickles are very much so real. As the matter of fact I just finished the last jar from the last year. They were awesome. 

I Just got back into town. I will get to work tomorow and G-d willing will post the recipe.


----------



## CharlieD

Cucumbers
Garlic, 1 whole (if cloves are big you can cut them in the half)
Dill to loosely cover cower the bottom (divided)
Pickling Salt 2-3 table spoons (depending on your taste, I use about 2.5)
Bay Leaves 3-4
Red hot pepper flakes about a tea spoon or less. Or whole hot peppers, like chili peppers for example, 2-4
Tap Water
If you can get hold of leaves of tart cherry or/and leaves of black currant, or/and leaves of horse radish, it would be great. Those leaves make pickles stronger/crunchier. 

 I use a 1 gallon jar. You can divide the recipe into smaller portions, but then I do not know how it would work, never tried small portion.
 I like small to medium cucumbers. Put half of the dill, and garlic, and bay leaves on the bottom. If you have, add above mention leaves. Put 1 or 2 hot peppers, or pepper flakes. Fill the jar with cucumbers.  Add garlic, salt (make sure to use pickling salt). Cover with the rest of the dill, bay leaves, and other leaves. Fill with cold tap water all the way to the top. Tighten the lid pretty tight. Shake the jar so the salt is dissolved evenly thru out. Put the jar in a bowl or some other container. For next few days during the fermentation, the water will be sipping thru the top. Make sure to clean that water so you know when the fermentation stops. 5-7 days, after that you can put them away. I have spare fridge so I keep them in the fridge the whole winter. My mom just keeps them in the pantry, but the problem is they continue, albeit slowly, to ferment in the warm place so she can’t keep them for too long because they became too sour. 

 Oh, forgot most important thing. To make sure pickles are crunchy you have to hold the cucumbers in the cold water for 3-4-6-8 hours prior the processing. The longer-the better. Changing the water every 2 hours. If possible. Lately I have been leaving cucumbers in the sink overnight. I do it right in the kitchen sink.


----------



## CharlieD

David, too hot to make Solyanka. Remind me when it gets colder, I will cook and take pictures then.


----------



## Bolas De Fraile

Thanks D I will give it a go


----------



## PrincessFiona60

Thank you, Charlie.  I should be able to make a jar of those this fall.


----------



## CharlieD

By the time fall comes we do not have pickling cucumbers any more. So I have to do it right now.


----------



## PrincessFiona60

CharlieD said:


> By the time fall comes we do not have pickling cucumbers any more. So I have to do it right now.



We don't have any, yet.  I hang out in the store and farmer's market waiting for the change of seasons.


----------



## CharlieD

Wow, is Montana cold? Is it why you do not have them yet?


----------



## DaveSoMD

Thanks Charlie!  I'm going to go get some cucumbers this weekend.


----------



## Dawgluver

Charlie, is it one clove of garlic, or the whole head?


----------



## CharlieD

I'm sorry, I meant one whole head. 

P.S. I just want to mention that all the ingredients are approximate. You can add salary, or all spice, or whole peppercorn instead of chilly flakes. More or less pepper. You can add capers, if you like.


----------



## Dawgluver

One more question:  I assume you peel the garlic?


----------



## CharlieD

Forshmack, a.k.a. chopped hearing.

1 whole hearing deboned and filet
1 egg, hard boiled
1 small onion
1 small white roll
1 small sour apple (if it is not too sour it is ok, just do not use anything overly sweet)
2-3 table spoons oil, preferably corn
Vinegar

Unlike the olden days in Russia or Ukraine, there is no need to soak the hearing, it is not that salty. It is still necessary to soak the bread in the vinegar. Mostly to add that specific vinegary taste.
It is the best to use meat grinder, but food processor would also work. Grind 
The fish, onion, apple and bread. If using meat grinder make sure to alternate what you are grinding then it mixes better in the end. If using food processor do not over process, you still want to have texture. It should be the consistency of a ground meat that will be used for a hamburger.
Add couple tablespoons of oil, mix well. Let it rest, even chilled so the flavors would intermarry. Tastes the best on second or even third day. Serve it as *Hors D'oeuvres. *Spread it on the piece of bread; use it as a side for the boiled or baked potato.


----------



## CharlieD

Yes, I do peel and actually crush garlic. You can use it less that way.


----------



## PrincessFiona60

CharlieD said:


> Wow, is Montana cold? Is it why you do not have them yet?



I think altitude has something to do with it, too.  We are about 2-3 weeks behind the midwest with our growing season.


----------



## CharlieD

*Napoleon*

I tried to post this in one of the _old_ Napoleon threads, I hate opening new threads, but the site would not let me do it, so I am adding this to my thread, though this is definitely not Ukrainian.
 
I will need your help folks. I would like to give this recipe who is Major in English, but seriously minor in cooking. So I know that long before she starts making this she will criticize my English skills. I do not mind, she is a longtime friend and a very good person.  I just need to make the recipe understandable for somebody who cannot even cook. Please tell me what corrections to make. 
 
 
Napoleon.
Ingredients:
5 – Eggs
5 – cups milk (or non-dairy creamer such as Coffee Rich if milk is a problem/allergy)
5 – Table spoons flour
5 – Table spoons sugar
1 – Stick butter (or margarine)
1 or 2 - table spoon vanilla
1 package of Pepperidge Farm pastry dough (store bought)
Grated Chocolate or whip cream for decorating (optional)
Directions:
   Dough. There are couple of options, depending how thick you like the baked layers to be, you can cut the defrosted dough into 6 pieces, roll it out thin and bake or bake as is. I like the dough to be thick, so I do not roll it out thin and bake as is. It is very important to pock the dough with fork all over or use pizza roller (the one with spikes). It will help with baking it evenly. Cut the ends of the baked sheets evenly; do _Not_ discard the leftover crumbs, you can use them as a topping. 
  Cream (or is it called frosting?). Put 4 cups of milk, 1 butter stick, all the sugar and vanilla into a pot. Bring to a boil at the medium heat. You will need to whisk or stir it periodically until it starts boiling. While the mixture is heating up take the rest of the milk (1 cup) + 5 eggs + 5 t. spoons flour mix it all together. Make sure there are no lumps.  Slowly add/pour the mixture into the pot, constantly mixing. The mixture should come to a boil, turn down the heat, cook slowly until thickens, constantly stirring or whisking. If you like the cake really moist you can spread ready mixture when it is hot. I do not like it moist, prefer the cake to be still a bit crunchy when you bite into it, so I usually let it cool and spread the cream right before diner. You’ll have to experiment to see which way you like better. You can prebake and premade the cream a day or eve two ahead. But I have to say it taste better when fresh. If you like lemon or maybe even some other flavor you can add along with vanilla.
The recipe could be doubled, tripled or even quadruple (my favorite one, really tall).
 
I use grated chocolate along with crushed trimmings of the baked layers to sprinkle on the top of the cake, you can use whip cream if you like.


----------



## Bolas De Fraile

It looks okay to me D but I'm dyslectic.


----------



## Dawgluver

There are some minor typos, Charlie, but to me, an admitted non-baker, it was quite understandable.  Sounds yummy!


----------



## CharlieD

Can you please, point out the typos. Thank you.


----------



## Dawgluver

CharlieD said:
			
		

> Can you please, point out the typos. Thank you.



Will try tomorrow, Charlie!  Others may be able to help before then.   I have to go to bed now.


----------



## PrincessFiona60

Here you go Charlie, you did a great job!  I highlighted two phrases for you to change if you like or you can use your phrasing.  I fixed your typos and swapped a couple of words for clarity.  Otherwise, I didn't change it!  Oh and I stole the recipe for my use...

Napoleon.
Ingredients:
5 – Eggs
5 – cups milk (or non-dairy creamer such as Coffee Rich if milk is a problem/allergy)
5 – Tablespoons flour
5 – Tablespoons sugar
1 – Stick butter (or margarine)
1 or 2 - tablespoons vanilla
1 package of Pepperidge Farm pastry dough _(Puff Pastry_)(store bought)
Grated Chocolate or whip cream for decorating (optional)
Directions:
Dough. There are couple of options, depending how thick you like the baked layers to be, you can cut the defrosted dough into 6 pieces, roll it out thin and bake or bake as is. I like the dough to be thick, so I do not roll it out thin and bake as is. It is very important to poke the dough with fork all over or use pizza roller (the one with spikes). It will help with baking it evenly. Cut the ends of the baked sheets evenly; do Not discard the leftover crumbs, you can use them as a topping.
Cream (_We called it Bavarian Cream in the bakery_ or is it called frosting?). Put 4 cups of milk, 1 stick of butter, all the sugar and vanilla into a pot. Bring to a boil at medium heat. You will need to whisk or stir it periodically until it starts boiling. While the mixture is heating up take the rest of the milk (1 cup) + 5 eggs + 5 tablespoons flour mix it all together. Make sure there are no lumps. Slowly add/pour the mixture into the pot, constantly mixing. The mixture should come to a boil, turn down the heat, cook slowly until thickens, constantly stirring or whisking. If you like the cake really moist you can spread ready mixture when it is hot. I do not like it moist, prefer the cake to be still a bit crunchy when you bite into it, so I usually let it cool and spread the cream right before dinner. You’ll have to experiment to see which way you like better. You can pre-bake the pastry and pre-make the cream a day or even two ahead. But I have to say it tastes better when fresh. If you like lemon or maybe even some other flavor you can add along with the vanilla.
The recipe could be doubled, tripled or even quadruple (my favorite one, really tall).

I use grated chocolate along with crushed trimmings of the baked layers to sprinkle on the top of the cake, you can use whip cream if you like.


----------



## Bolas De Fraile

HRH Fi I wish I had had you sitting next to me in school


----------



## CharlieD

PrincessFiona60 said:


> Here you go Charlie, you did a great job! I highlighted two phrases for you to change if you like or you can use your phrasing. I fixed your typos and swapped a couple of words for clarity. Otherwise, I didn't change it! Oh and I stole the recipe for my use...
> 
> .


 

Thank you very much and I hope you enjoy it.


----------



## PrincessFiona60

Bolas De Fraile said:


> HRH Fi I wish I had had you sitting next to me in school



So you  could pull my hair?


----------



## PrincessFiona60

CharlieD said:


> Thank you very much and I hope you enjoy it.



I will, thanks!  I love Bavarian Cream.


----------



## CharlieD

Little did I know that I know how to make Bavarian Cream. Wow.


----------



## Bolas De Fraile

CharlieD said:


> And here is something that goes really well with that Zharkoe:
> 
> Pickled tomato
> 
> 
> No canning required, but you will not be able to pickle them in the refrigerator. The pickling, that takes 2 to 3 weeks, has to be done at the room temperature. I recommend the kitchen, but as far away from stove as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> The recipe is very simple. I buy a box of tomatoes at the farmers market. It fills in the big pail that I have. I bought one in restaurant supply store, but you can use an enamel-plated pot. Or even a jar, if you make a little bit. As I make to last the whole winter I make 2 big pails, I think they are like 5 gallons or so.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay here is the recipe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The recipe is for 5-gallon pail:
> 
> 
> 
> Tomatoes to fill pail almost to the top.
> 
> Dill one bunch, that is sold in the store or the farmers market is enough, if you like dill a lot, like I do, you can use 2 bunches.
> 
> Celery stalks 3, cut up in the 2-3 Inc pieces.
> 
> Hot pepper 3. I buy those long red or yellow ones; have no idea what they called.
> 
> Garlic 1
> 
> Salt 4 tablespoons for every 3 litter/quarts of water
> 
> Bay leaves few
> 
> Allspice and Black peppercorn; each about a t-spoon. I just grab it with 3 fingers whatever comes out is good enough.
> 
> 
> 
> Now the hot pepper will make tomato spicy, my mom puts only one I like a little bit spicier so I use 3, but I do not like spicy food so you can add more if you like spicy food, but not too much, at least first time.
> 
> 
> 
> Wash the tomatoes, peppers and dill. Cut up dill, put some to cover the bottom of the pail.
> 
> Put tomatoes, pepper, celery, and garlic. Make sure that garlic cloves, peppers, celery and dill is evenly spread through out the pail. Leave some dill to have enough to cover tomatoes on the top. Dissolve _pickling_ salt in a little bit of the hot water and add the rest of cold water to fill the proportion above. My pail I can fill with 9 quarts of water. Just enough to cover tomatoes. Add allspice and black peppercorn. Spread the rest of dill on the top.
> 
> Now you have to keep them (the tomatoes) down and covered. I spread the cheesecloth over it and put big diner plate on the top, and then I put weight on the top. There is no exact since on how much weight. You can start with 2-litter soda bottle, but then in the week or even sooner you should switch to something lighter, like a quart or so. If there is not enough weight it is not a big problem if there is too much, tomato will get smashed. There is a debate about tomatoes, red or green, I use both. When I make a lot and set aside for the winter, I just eat the red ones first and the green ones I live for the latter. This year I had one jar of green ones left in June they were still awesome. The harder the tomato the lower on the bottom it should go, and the softer - the higher, of course.
> 
> Now comes the part my wife hates. It stinks well I like the smell. It takes 2 to 3 weeks for the pickling process, depends on the temperature in the kitchen, I do it in the kitchen. Tomatoes will get covered with something that looks like mildew, at this point you have to take plate and cloth of, rinse it and put it back. You should not allow mildew to build up and stay because tomatoes will taste like that mildew, yuck. In about two weeks you should taste them, and if they are ready (if they are not they will have some what weird and bitter taste, if yes it should remind you of dill pickles taste), slowly take them one by one, slowly rinse under cold water and put in the clean jar, then drain the pickling juice (for those who speak English that’s brine  ) through the clean cheesecloth right into the jar to cover tomatoes. Take some garlic cloves and if you like your tomatoes to be spicy add one pepper, make sure to rinse them too.
> 
> I keep my tomatoes in the refrigerator. If everything was clean they will stay clean the whole winter, if not they may have some mildew build up on the top. Then you should take out and clean it up. It is not a problem in the end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S.
> 
> 
> 
> The spices and the greens that I put into tomato are really not carved in the stone, or whatever the saying is. For example back in Ukraine we used to add things like horseradish leaves, leaves of the cherry tree and leaves of black currant. Last year I added green capers, but this year I did not have any. So, if you are going to do that more than ones you can experiment


This was one of first recipes I read here. I am late growing  toms so I will have a lot of green ones this year, D I have grown a lot of tomatillo's should I use them as well?


----------



## CharlieD

I am sorry, I have no idea. I did not think tomatillos were actually tomatoes. 

I am actually in the proces of making this recipe right now, came to check the recipe my self.


----------



## CharlieD

Well, I guess they are according to WIKI. I gues go ahead and throw them in. There pictures of my tomatoe in this thread: http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f94/iso-pickled-green-tomatoes-66914.html#post930772


----------



## CharlieD

In tomatoe recipe I see I made a mistake, ratehr typo. It is 4 table spoons of saqlt per 3 litters of water or 1 Gallon (not quarts). It is an approximate ammount too. some time it needs 5 table spoons and some times only 3. I think it has some thing to do with type of tomatoes.


----------



## Bolas De Fraile

Don't worry C/D I got the idea I dont think it will be to critical.
Ps just to cause more confusion a US gallon is less than a UK gallon.


----------



## buckytom

lol, in reading through the past few pages, i realized a napolean is certainly not from the ukraine.

maybe you should call it a polotsk, after the great battles to defend st. petersburg.


----------



## CharlieD

It is for sure not, but i just did not want to start a new thread.


----------



## giggler

CD, love your recipes..

but Please Start a new Thread.. this one is Too Long for my small brain to keep track of..

Eric, Austin Tx.


----------



## CharlieD

Not sure about new thread. Would be nice if I could make the table contents in the begining of the thread where you could just click on the name of the recipe and it would take you to the right page. Moderators is there any way we could do this? Anybody?


----------



## CharlieD

On the separate issue. I made the Napoleon the other day, mostly to check the amounts, and they were all wrong. Here are the correct amounts:

1 – Eggs
1 – cups milk (or non-dairy creamer such as Coffee Rich if milk is a problem/allergy) 
_2_ – Tablespoons flour (
_4_– Tablespoons sugar
  Stick butter (or margarine) - drop the butter all together it is not necessary at all.
_1_ - tablespoons vanilla
_1_ package of Pepperidge Farm pastry dough _(Puff Pastry_) (store bought)


----------



## giggler

Why don't you start your own threads,

Stuffed Cabbage rolls or Ukranian Borhst..

or something...

man I Love all your wonderful recipes..

but I don't know how to deal with 13 pages of stuff..

You should write a cookbook... also I love your good stories!

Eric, Austin Tx.


----------



## CharlieD

Borscht, hot: 

Meat about 3 lbs.
Water -3 quarts
Onion finely chopped or diced – 1
Potato diced – 2-3
Carrots grated – 2-3
Beets grated – 1-2 (could be canned, but not pickled)
Cabbage I buy coleslaw salad – 1-2 cups, or great your own.
White beans, I use canned, you can use as much as whole can or about a half would be good.
1 tablespoon of ketchup or tomato sauce for coloring.
Secret ingredient (recipe to fallow). – 2-3 table spoons (I posted this recipe earlier in the thread, but here it is again, so you do not have to look for it.
Salt and pepper to taste.

Start by making good meat broth. Use whatever meat you like. Lately I’ve been using chicken. But pork or beef is definitely great. Short ribs are good. But in my opinion, the best part is cross cut shank meat with marrow bone. The reason for that is broth comes out with a hint of tartness. I do not know why it is. And that is exactly what you want in borscht. If you search for other recipes you’ll find that some of them use lemon juice, some use citric acid, also known as sour salt, or pickled beets, or sauerkraut, and then they have to add sugar to compensate...

Nonsense. All those things will only ruin natural taste of Borscht. If I use beef I cook it for a long time to make sure the meat is extremely soft, and practically melts in your moth so you do not have seat and chew the darn thing for half an hour. While meat is cooking prepare all the vegetables. You can use fresh or canned beets. If using fresh beets they will take an hour or so to cook. I cook the whole thing and then take the beats out, immerse in the cold water, grate and add them back almost at the end of the process. 
I do not like onion, so I usually put it in early so it over cooks to the point that you can’t even see it. Adds great flavor. Cook potato, carrots, coleslaw, beans. Should take about half an hour or less. 

Some people will tell you that I do not know what I’m doing or talking about. The true purists of an authentic Ukrainian Borscht will sauté their beets, onion and carrots in some fried pork fat, yum. Very unhealthy, I do not do it anymore.
So, I do not worry about them people anymore. Taste of my Borscht is very refine.

Now the secret ingredient. Indeed some people will add the same ingredients separately but I make this special concoction (I do not know what to call it in English, so please help me out somebody here). In fact I use it for many soups and other dishes, especially when I make spaghetti sauce.

Here it is:

10 sweet red bell peppers (any color is good, but not green)
10 hot peppers or go by weight use same amount (it could be any hot peppers you like, depending on how hot you like your food)
2-3 average parsnip roots or if you can get hold of parsley root; it is even better, use 4-6 of them as they usually much smaller.
3-4 heads of garlic 
2 table spoons of salt (works as preservative)

Cut, remove seeds, wash, put everything thru meat grinder or, if using food processor make sure not to chop very fine. 

Right now is a perfect time to make this mixture. There are so many fresh veggies, I make the whole recipe put in couple of jars and keep it in refrigerator for up to 6 month. It actually never last that long I use it up faster. You can scale the recipe down. 

When Borscht is nearly ready add couple spoons of the mixture. Taste and re-season to taste. Hm, that sounds funny; probably I am spelling something wrong.

Serve hot with a spoon of sour cream and hearty bread. Russian will have a clove of garlic seating right next to the plate and they will keep bighting into it. Not sure about taste but very healthy.


----------



## David Cottrell

Hello CharlieD, you may remember that I have two of your borscht recipes - yes very refined. By all means throw in some bones so the marrow can come out into the broth. Sometimes I have been known to make a double broth - make a broth as shown, cook all the good out of the meat and bones and then use that broth to make the broth to be used in the borscht. The meat can go into a salad or something where a taste is added back to the meat. 

One thing I've not done is to make your magic concoction. CharlieD's Magic Borscht Concoction. I will be sure to buy all the necessary ingredients tomorrow. It's borscht time in Ohio!! Thanks for reposting and reminding.


----------



## CharlieD

I like my borscht with lots of meat in the bowl.


----------



## David Cottrell

Me too Charlie, except for one recipe I have from L'viv. It's made with lima beans and no meat for a really good change. To me it's light and refreshing. For normal borscht with meat I like it so thick the wooden spoon stands up in the pot. Cheers!


----------



## robrg1836

charlie great thread.  this sounds so tasty!!! thank you for posting it


----------



## CharlieD

Well here is another Non-Ukranin recipe, I just wanted to add to my thread:

Honey cake:

Traditionally this cake is served on Rosh Hashana (New Year) and day before Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) symbolic of our wishes for a sweet year.

Also it is believed that one should be asking for a piece of Honey cake day before Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement). If one to become so poor, during the next year that one is forced to ask for food, then this asking for honey cake will avert the need for that hypothetical asking/begin. 

My aunts’ recipe:

1.5 cup honey
2 cup milk (or non-dairy substitute, like coffee creamer works as well)
2 cup sugar
1 stick margarine

All of the above ingredients put in the pot and slowly bring the heat up stirring up until margarine melts and mixture becomes smooth. Doesn’t have to boil, just melt and mix together. Let it cool down a little bit so the dough doesn’t start cooking when this mixture is added.

I use food processor mix:

8 eggs
1.5 cup oil (I use corn or vegetable oil)
5 to 6 cups flour
2 tbs cinnamon
1 tsp ground clove 
2 tsp baking powder

You can add raisins or craraisins, or even chocolate chips.
Some people add nuts, however nuts are traditionally not used during this particular time of the year, though can be added if cake is made some other time. 

Mix all ingredients well, pour it into several loaf pans depends on the size. Bake at 300-325 degrees for about an hour. Do not over bake so it doesn’t become to dry.


----------



## David Cottrell

Got the stew Charlie. Thanks. Seems like the real trick is in cooking the meat just so. I'll let you know how it works out. My portion will be small in a smaller dutch oven, but enough for the family.


----------



## CharlieD

Enjoy. When meat is ready add the fried/cooked deruny on the top, cover it. Turn the heat down and let it seat for an hour or so. Serve. eat. Enjoy. When I was a kid I would not tough them. Now I love it. It is toatal yum.


----------



## David Cottrell

Got it! I wasn't sure about adding the deruni. Easy enough. Cook them and add then and let them sit and gently simmer to soak up plenty of goodness. Thanks


----------



## CharlieD

Can somebody explain this thing to me? when i search for the recipe of my smetannik, up above, the link comes back with answer to be found on the page 6 of this thread, but there only 4 pages here now. What is going on? Where did the rest of the pages go?


----------



## Andy M.

Charlie, each member can adjust the number of posts appear on a page.  I think the maximum is 40 posts to a page but if you choose 20 posts per page, there will be more pages.


----------



## CharlieD

Oh, how do I change that?


----------



## Andy M.

Click on User CP
Click on Edit Options
scroll down to Thread Display Options
Select your choice
Click on Save Changes


----------



## CharlieD

Did that, still do not see the post.


----------



## CharlieD

That is just weird. If I search for Smetannik, the search comes back with a link, when I try to fallow that link, the recipe is not there. Moderators, please help.


----------



## DaveSoMD

Charlie,  it is post number 54 in the thread.


----------



## CharlieD

Thank you.


----------



## David Cottrell

CharlieD, I have a question about the pickled tomatoes. I'm going to make a small batch, or try to make some, about a gallon I guess. I can scale down your instructions from a five gal pail, but I need to ask, do you use vinegar in the mix? I didn't see any. Let know please.


----------



## CharlieD

N O, no, big no-no in my book. I know people do it, but I do not. Then they will be called Marinaded tomatoes. As far as scaling, the only difference really is amount of water you add, but even that you can make like a gallon size, or whatever the recipe calls for and poor over your tomatoes to cover it, and the rest you can just dump, it's only water and salt. If you have extra garlic or extra dill it is not going to hurt anything. It is funny though you ask me about this right now. I just bought some tomatoes I was going to pickle my self. Actually just came back from store, they did not have dill. Told me to come back tomorrow.


----------



## David Cottrell

Thank you CharlieD, I was planning to make a big mistake and put in vinegar and then I thought I better ask! Glad I did.  I think I'll put this together this weekend but before I buy tomatoes for it I will check for dill!


----------



## NikitaLysytskiy

CharlieD, have you been in Kiev, Ukraine? Do you have your favorite cafes or restaurants there? Or any advice for choosing ones?


----------



## CharlieD

Nikita, I grew up in Kiev, but left some 20 + years ago, so I have no clue what is going on there right now.
David, I was poking around Russian internet today and found a video for a 5 day tomatoes. Since I did not do it yeterday, I think I am going to try this new recipe, seems really easy. I actually do have one of those quick recipes, but i do not like it. I'll see about this one and report  when I know the result.


----------



## NikitaLysytskiy

CharlieD said:


> Nikita, I grew up in Kiev, but left some 20 + years ago, so I have no clue what is going on there right now.


I'm from Kiev too! Nice to meet a compatriot here
I wrote a book with my friends devoting ukrainian cuisine, and now I'm gathering people's thoughts, information on best restaurants and cafes in Ukraine. 

And someone here asked about Golubtsi.
Here is a receipt 
Golubtsi (or staffed cabbage)  It is finely chopped meat, stuffed with buckwheat or rice and stewed  wrapped in cabbage or grape leaves. The dish is very similar to Turkish  Sarma, or Caucasian Dolma. Not spicy, not greasy, pleasant to the taste.  Often served with tomato sauce or sour cream. The only difference  between Stuffed Cabbage and similar dish, wrapped in grape leaves is  that you can eat Stuffed Cabbage right after preparation without  unwrapping them. Meanwhile some gourmets eat vine leaves, especially if  they are not warned about the fact that these leaves are not eaten.   Ingredients:

  300 g meat
 300 g rice
 4 tablespoons tomato sauce
 200 g sour cream

  1 cabbage
 2 carrots
 1 onion
 Salt and pepper to taste



 To prepare  Stuffed Cabbage, one should mix previously cooked rice with minced meat;  then wrap the mixture into cabbage leaves and stew in a thick cast-iron  pot with the addition of fat and spices. Serving Stuffed Cabbage,  sprinkle it with sour cream.


----------



## vitauta

NikitaLysytskiy said:


> I'm from Kiev too! Nice to meet a compatriot here
> I wrote a book with my friends devoting ukrainian cuisine, and now I'm gathering people's thoughts, information on best restaurants and cafes in Ukraine.
> 
> And someone here asked about Golubtsi.
> Here is a receipt
> Golubtsi (or staffed cabbage)  It is finely chopped meat, stuffed with buckwheat or rice and stewed  wrapped in cabbage or grape leaves. The dish is very similar to Turkish  Sarma, or Caucasian Dolma. Not spicy, not greasy, pleasant to the taste.  Often served with tomato sauce or sour cream. The only difference  between Stuffed Cabbage and similar dish, wrapped in grape leaves is  that you can eat Stuffed Cabbage right after preparation without  unwrapping them. Meanwhile some gourmets eat vine leaves, especially if  they are not warned about the fact that these leaves are not eaten.   Ingredients:
> 
> 300 g meat
> 300 g rice
> 4 tablespoons tomato sauce
> 200 g sour cream
> 
> 1 cabbage
> 2 carrots
> 1 onion
> Salt and pepper to taste
> 
> 
> 
> To prepare  Stuffed Cabbage, one should mix previously cooked rice with minced meat;  then wrap the mixture into cabbage leaves and stew in a thick cast-iron  pot with the addition of fat and spices. Serving Stuffed Cabbage,  sprinkle it with sour cream.




why would grape leaves be used as a wrap if they re not edible?


----------



## taxlady

One doesn't eat the vine leaves???


----------



## CWS4322

taxlady said:


> One doesn't eat the vine leaves???


I couldn't find any information that you can't eat grape leaves. I do know that the first time I made Dolmas using wild grape leaves, I was concerned that the bitterness would remain. After steaming them about 45 minutes or so, they were delicious. I will try making this one the grape leaves are big enough. They are a bit small at the moment, but I am keeping a close eye on them because I want to make a bunch of Dolmas for the freezer.


I thought this link was interesting:

GRAPE: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions and Warnings - WebMD


----------



## NikitaLysytskiy

vitauta said:


> why would grape leaves be used as a wrap if they re not edible?


Actually grape leaves are not a poison of any kind, they are just tasteless. They are used, because of their delicate aroma, which mince is soaked with




taxlady said:


> One doesn't eat the vine leaves???


you?


----------



## taxlady

I have never taken the grape leaves off of dolmas/dolmadakia/dolmade. I always just eat them.


----------



## taxlady

CWS4322 said:


> I couldn't find any information that you can't eat grape leaves. I do know that the first time I made Dolmas using wild grape leaves, I was concerned that the bitterness would remain. After steaming them about 45 minutes or so, they were delicious. I will try making this one the grape leaves are big enough. They are a bit small at the moment, but I am keeping a close eye on them because I want to make a bunch of Dolmas for the freezer.
> 
> 
> I thought this link was interesting:
> 
> GRAPE: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions and Warnings - WebMD


They are supposed to be good for keeping cucumber pickles crunchy too.


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## CWS4322

I used them in pickles years ago. I do find they do have flavor. But, I use only fresh wild grape leaves (I blanch them before rolling). Maybe wild ones have more flavor than cultivated grape leaves. I don't have cultivated ones available, so won't be able to compare the flavor cultivated vs. wild. Perhaps the type of grape makes a difference as well. Wild grapes are small, blue/purple grapes around here.


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## CharlieD

taxlady said:


> I have never taken the grape leaves off of dolmas/dolmadakia/dolmade. I always just eat them.


 
On the other hand I always take cabage leaves of the gouptsi. I hate cabage. Actually it is not tastless it tastes pretty nasty to me.


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## CharlieD

Nikita, I think you should take thios thread over and add your recipe. I am just ahome cook. But since you'e writen the book you probably/for sure have better recipes.


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## Bolas De Fraile

My Serbian MIL making Sarma using Croatian yellow winter cabage in Stari Grad Hvar.


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## taxlady

CharlieD said:


> On the other hand I always take cabage leaves of the gouptsi. I hate cabage. Actually it is not tastless it tastes pretty nasty to me.


Stirling does that. I'll have to try it some time. I hate overcooked cabbage and I think cabbage is overcooked in just about anything but a stir fry.


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## CharlieD

taxlady said:


> Stirling does that. I'll have to try it some time. I hate overcooked cabbage and I think cabbage is overcooked in just about anything but a stir fry.


 

What is "stirling"?


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## taxlady

I made cabbage rolls once. I really, really, didn't think they were worth the effort. Steaming all those cabbage leaves to make them pliable was a lot of work.


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## CharlieD

I usually make "lazy" cabbage rolls. I use cole slaw and shreded carrots in between layers of meat balls. Gives that flavor of the Cabae rolls, but less work and no need to steam before hand and at the end unwarap and toss the cabbage.


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## Bolas De Fraile

The leaves are not cooked they are cured to make them tasty and pliable, there is a stall in Zagreb market that just sells the cured cabbage heads. 

This is a Serbian cabbage salad my favorite way of eating it, slice a hard round cabbage on a mandolin, salt for a few hrs to draw out any bitterness, scrunch with your hand and dress with garlic and evoo.


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## taxlady

CharlieD said:


> I usually make "lazy" cabbage rolls. I use cole slaw and shreded carrots in between layers of meat balls. Gives that flavor of the Cabae rolls, but less work and no need to steam before hand and at the end unwarap and toss the cabbage.


I would be afraid that the cooked cabbage taste would contaminate the taste of the rest of the dish.


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## taxlady

Bolas De Fraile said:


> The leaves are not cooked they are cured to make them tasty and pliable, there is a stall in Zagreb market that just sells the cured cabbage heads.
> 
> This is a Serbian cabbage salad my favorite way of eating it, slice a hard round cabbage on a mandolin, salt for a few hrs to draw out any bitterness, scrunch with your hand and dress with garlic and evoo.


Please tell us more about curing the leaves. Sounds very interesting. But, don't the leaves get cooked when the whole dish goes in the oven?


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## CharlieD

Surprisingly it doesn't. 

And Bolas, where are we going to find cured cabbage in America, you silly.


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## CWS4322

TL-A friend of mine told me to freeze the cabbage first--the leaves peel off. Here's a link to doing that for cabbage rolls. I just freeze the cabbage overnight and then let it thaw for about 8 hours. 

http://www.cooks.com/rec/view/0,1626,134182-250195,00.html

I imagine one could cure the leaves in a similar way that one prepares them for Kimichi without the chili, etc. 

CharlieD--I make lazy day cabbage roll casserole, but my favorite is to make what I call cabbage roll meatloaf. I prepare the meat as if I were going to make cabbage rolls (obviously, I don't cook it), add cooked rice to the meat, and then put some tomato sauce in the bottom of a loaf pan, top with 1/2 of the meat, layer of tomato sauce, some frozen, chopped cabbage (we freeze cabbage in the fall), the rest of the meat, and then tomato sauce, cabbage, a few spoonfuls of sauce, and bake at 350 for about 1-1/2 hours. It tastes just like cabbage rolls, but without nearly as much fuss. I also make cabbage roll soup.


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## taxlady

CWS4322 said:


> TL-A friend of mine told me to freeze the cabbage first--the leaves peel off. Here's a link to doing that for cabbage rolls. I just freeze the cabbage overnight and then let it thaw for about 8 hours.
> 
> http://www.cooks.com/rec/view/0,1626,134182-250195,00.html
> 
> I imagine one could cure the leaves in a similar way that one prepares them for Kimichi without the chili, etc.
> 
> CharlieD--I make lazy day cabbage roll casserole, but my favorite is to make what I call cabbage roll meatloaf. I prepare the meat as if I were going to make cabbage rolls (obviously, I don't cook it), add cooked rice to the meat, and then put some tomato sauce in the bottom of a loaf pan, top with 1/2 of the meat, layer of tomato sauce, some frozen, chopped cabbage (we freeze cabbage in the fall), the rest of the meat, and then tomato sauce, cabbage, a few spoonfuls of sauce, and bake at 350 for about 1-1/2 hours. It tastes just like cabbage rolls, but without nearly as much fuss. I also make cabbage roll soup.


Well, it all sounds simpler and interesting, but I never had a cabbage roll I liked. Well, I may have liked my Swedish grandmother's kåldolmer. I remember having them, but I don't remember what I thought of them, so I probably didn't hate them.


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## CWS4322

taxlady said:


> Well, it all sounds simpler and interesting, but I never had a cabbage roll I liked. Well, I may have liked my Swedish grandmother's kåldolmer. I remember having them, but I don't remember what I thought of them, so I probably didn't hate them.


Actually, I season the meat the way my grandmother did (also Swedish). I sometimes skip the tomato sauce and use the beef-based sauce like my grandma put on her cabbage rolls.


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## CharlieD

Seasoning is a completely personal preference and should be used accordingly. I always tell people to use what they like not what I use. I for example do not like Swedish or italian meatballs. But the moment I make them my way, the way I used to from childhood I love them.


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## taxlady

CWS4322 said:


> Actually, I season the meat the way my grandmother did (also Swedish). I sometimes skip the tomato sauce and use the beef-based sauce like my grandma put on her cabbage rolls.


When you have time, would you please give me your recipe. I'm pretty sure my granny didn't use a tomato based sauce. Maybe there is something in the Swedish seasoning that counters the awful of cooked cabbage.


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## CWS4322

taxlady said:


> When you have time, would you please give me your recipe. I'm pretty sure my granny didn't use a tomato based sauce. Maybe there is something in the Swedish seasoning that counters the awful of cooked cabbage.


Give me time to get the bookshelves up and unpack my grandmother's cookbook, and I'd be happy to share it. I pretty much know it by heart, but its the sauce that I always double-check on.


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## CharlieD

taxlady said:


> When you have time, would you please give me your recipe. I'm pretty sure my granny didn't use a tomato based sauce. Maybe there is something in the Swedish seasoning that counters the awful of cooked cabbage.


 

Listen this is what I do. I take shredded carrots or shred it myself, dice onion and bell peppers, red or yellow, but not green and shredded cabbage. Do not add too much cabbage. I sautéed all of that with the seasoning of your choice, I mean my choice, but you should do it with your choice.   .

Then I put the on the bottom of the pan then meat, that I form into meat balls and then more of the above mixture. As far as tomato sauce. It can be mixed with sour cream, or mayo, or simply substituted with sour cream altogether. I think sour cream and sauce mixture would work the best. You can add a little bit of boiling water too, to offset the taste of the tomato.


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## Bolas De Fraile

CharlieD said:


> Surprisingly it doesn't.
> 
> And Bolas, where are we going to find cured cabbage in America, you silly.


you can in the Serbian areas of Chicago and CA
Serbian food festival 2011 - YouTube


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## Bolas De Fraile

taxlady said:


> Please tell us more about curing the leaves. Sounds very interesting. But, don't the leaves get cooked when the whole dish goes in the oven?


To cure the cabbage you need a plastic drum with a lid, a piece of wood that will fit inside, a stone as a weight, salt, dried corn cobs and winter frost.
Place your first hard round white cabbage in the drum, throw in a few handfuls of salt and a corn cob,repeat till the drum is 80% full then put the board and stone on top, close the lid, strap onto your partner back so she can carry it comfortably to the coldest area in the garden, leave for three month(just the drum) take a flattened head out it should be yellow and the leaves should be soft and pliable for wrapping.

The liquid in the drum is very good as a scalp lotion if you are bald, if you are not bald you will be soon after you use it.


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## taxlady

Thanks Bolas. That sounds like sauerkraut, but without shredding the leaves.


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## CharlieD

Bolas De Fraile said:


> you can in the Serbian areas of Chicago and CA


not sure even there you will find cured cabbage


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## Bolas De Fraile

CharlieD said:


> not sure even there you will find cured cabbage


 D I was going to post my joke about the special needs family but I know you are very PC.


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## Bolas De Fraile

taxlady said:


> Thanks Bolas. That sounds like sauerkraut, but without shredding the leaves.


Tax how very observant of you, it took a Serbian scientist 5 yrs to come to the conclusion you could not wrap mince meat in shredded leaves


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## NikitaLysytskiy

CharlieD said:


> Nikita, I think you should take thios thread over and add your recipe. I am just ahome cook. But since you'e writen the book you probably/for sure have better recipes.


I'll do it with pleasure! You are welcome to ask me anything you need.
By the way, as we start talking about staffed cabbage, its reseipt may very significantly depending on the region of Ukraine. Besides, in Moldavian, Tatarska, Russian cuisines there is a kind of Golubtsi. Also, while being in Italy I tried a kind of alternative Golubtsi made of Savoy cabbage. Along with cabbage and grape leaves Golubtsi could be made of spinach, beet leaves, nettle leaves and Brassica pekinensis.


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## Bolas De Fraile

Good looking food nikki

Charlie D this is Eva Vestoff my fav cabbage lady in Zagreb Market


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## NikitaLysytskiy

Bolas De Fraile said:


> Good looking food nikki


Thanks!

Bolas, what is that round cabbage on the photo? How do you eat it?


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## David Cottrell

Hello CharlieD and the others. I'm glad Discuss Cooking called me back to this thread. I'm a total gringo when it comes to these various food groups, and not much of a cook at that. For the family here in Ohio, USA, I taught myself about preparing the cabbage so it would roll nicely into cabbage rolls and learned to do a decent job of it. Then the grandchildren unroll all this work, scrape out the little bit of meat and eat that. The cabbage leaves go into the garbage and I hate to throw food away So I stopped and CharlieD taught me about his lazy cabbage roll recipe, which the grandchildren like, cabbage and all. Me? I like cabbage, never had any I didn't like -  raw, boiled, cured into sauerkraut, fried, what ever. 

I have tried beet leaves but by the time the beets reach the market here the leaves are in sad condition and that was a waste of time. I had not thought to try all those various leaves but I think I'll stick with cabbage. Thanks for all the information - and especially the photos (I need photos to see what all this food should look like) and thanks for the video about the Serbian food festival. OH MY! Thanks everyone.

One question - are grape leaves worth the hassle? I would have to find some that are sold in a jar and I know they are somewhat expensive.


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## NikitaLysytskiy

David Cottrell, as for me they are not. But still somepeople I know do love Golubci only with grape leaves. So, it worth trying just to know whether you like this very specific aroma of grape leaves or not.


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## David Cottrell

NikitaLysytskiy said:


> David Cottrell, as for me they are not. But still somepeople I know do love Golubci only with grape leaves. So, it worth trying just to know whether you like this very specific aroma of grape leaves or not.


 
Thanks Nikita, I do believe that I will do that! I must find some fresh grape leaves!


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## Bolas De Fraile

NikitaLysytskiy said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Bolas, what is that round cabbage on the photo? How do you eat it?


Nik go back to post 117 where I explain the method, it is used to make Serb/Croat Sarma.


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## CharlieD

Bolas De Fraile said:


> D I was going to post my joke about the special needs family but I know you are very PC.


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## CWS4322

David Cottrell said:


> Hello CharlieD and the others. I'm glad Discuss Cooking called me back to this thread. I'm a total gringo when it comes to these various food groups, and not much of a cook at that. For the family here in Ohio, USA, I taught myself about preparing the cabbage so it would roll nicely into cabbage rolls and learned to do a decent job of it. Then the grandchildren unroll all this work, scrape out the little bit of meat and eat that. The cabbage leaves go into the garbage and I hate to throw food away So I stopped and CharlieD taught me about his lazy cabbage roll recipe, which the grandchildren like, cabbage and all. Me? I like cabbage, never had any I didn't like -  raw, boiled, cured into sauerkraut, fried, what ever.
> 
> I have tried beet leaves but by the time the beets reach the market here the leaves are in sad condition and that was a waste of time. I had not thought to try all those various leaves but I think I'll stick with cabbage. Thanks for all the information - and especially the photos (I need photos to see what all this food should look like) and thanks for the video about the Serbian food festival. OH MY! Thanks everyone.
> 
> One question - are grape leaves worth the hassle? I would have to find some that are sold in a jar and I know they are somewhat expensive.


David--I would think in Ohio, you can find wild grape leaves growing along dirt roads, pastures, etc. I harvest my own--about to that this weekend. Swiss chard is another option.


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## CharlieD

Pickled/Marinated tomato.

3 days Recipe

Not really sure what to call them. They are not really pickled, that takes 2 weeks. They are not really marinated, that takes vinegar.
But here it is.
4 cups of water
2 Tablespoons honey
1 Tablespoon Pickling salt
1 Head of garlic
1 Bunch of Dill
Couple of stalks of Celery
Pinch of hot pepper flakes or to taste
Tomatoes to fill whatever container you have
Use very ripe tomatoes. I cut the big ones. I used a gallon size jar. Dissolved honey and salt in a little bit of hot water then filled the rest with cold tap water. I did not have celery, I'm sure it will be just fine. I end up using 5 cups of water. Keep on the counter for 3 days, then put in refrigerator.

Though honestly, I think it takes at least 5 days for my taste.


and here is the lettuce:

Summer time is time for pickling. Here is some less traditional thing to pickle. Lettuce. Yes lettuce. Was very common at least in Kyiv. Not sure about rest of Ukraine.

For a gallon size jar:
About a half of the head of leaf lettuce. I think that's the name. 

2 table spoons salt. 
1 small head of garlic. 
1/2 of a bunch of dill. 
1-2 pieces of rye bread. 
Fill with tap water to the top. 
Cover with cheesecloth.

It will be ready in 3-4 days.

My parents eat lettuce and drink the juice. I only like the juice. 
Try it, you might like it.


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## larry_stewart

Great, thanks!!  
Definitely going to try both.
Is the lettuce left on the counter initially too ?  
And what happens to the bread, does it kinda break down  into the liquid over time ?


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## CharlieD

larry_stewart said:


> Great, thanks!!
> Definitely going to try both.
> Is the lettuce left on the counter initially too ?
> And what happens to the bread, does it kinda break down  into the liquid over time ?



Yes, I leave lettuce on the counter for 3-5 days, depending how strong you want. Bread (did I mention to use rye bread?) does break. I usually strain the liquid thru cheese cloth or fine colander.


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## larry_stewart

Just got a jar of lettuce and a jar of tomatoes going from the recipes above.  
I'll keep you updated. 

Thanks again for the recipes


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## CharlieD

You’re welcome. Hope you like it


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## CharlieD

I forgot to mention. You have to make sure that lettuce is submerged under the water.


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## caseydog

Be careful doing a Google search on _Ukrainian_, unless you are in the market for a wife. 

CD


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## larry_stewart

CharlieD said:


> I forgot to mention. You have to make sure that lettuce is submerged under the water.



One step ahead of you

Ive made that mistake in the past before, never to make it ( intentionally) again.


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## CharlieD

larry_stewart said:


> One step ahead of you
> 
> 
> 
> Ive made that mistake in the past before, never to make it ( intentionally) again.





Oh, good. Actually, honestly I never had that problem before except last time.


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## CharlieD

caseydog said:


> Be careful doing a Google search on _Ukrainian_, unless you are in the market for a wife.
> 
> 
> 
> CD





LOL, now that’s funny


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## CharlieD

NinaVildanova said:


> Hello, please, share your recipe for kapustniak - soup made of chopped cabbage




Sorry, I hate kapustniak. Not to say that it is bad. I just do not like it. And thus do not make one.


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