# Why cook with wine?



## jet (Jan 26, 2008)

One question, why?


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## Andy M. (Jan 26, 2008)

One answer, flavor.

The same reason you add any ingredient.

Wine not only adds its own flavor to a dish, the alcohol works with certain ingredients, such as tomato, to release alcohol soluble flavors that would not be as pronounced without the alcohol.


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## Bean208 (Jan 26, 2008)

In the past year, as I have been learning more, I have started using wine in my cooking more and more.  The results have been unbelievable!!!  The dishes I make which have wine in the usually have the most comments about how good they are!  Once caution...once you start you won't stop!!


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## csalt (Jan 26, 2008)

jet said:


> One question, why?


 

wonderful flavour enhancer!


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## jet (Jan 26, 2008)

OK, more questions... 
 I have a recipe that I am making next week that calls for "white wine".  That is not very specific.  How do I know what to buy?
How do you store the wine after you uncork the bottle?


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## Andy M. (Jan 26, 2008)

jet said:


> OK, more questions...
> 
> I have a recipe that I am making next week that calls for "white wine". That is not very specific. How do I know what to buy?
> How do you store the wine after you uncork the bottle?


 

You should look for a non-oaky white wine, such as an Australian chardonnay or a sauvignon blanc.  Oaky wines don't add a great flavor as the oakiness is concentrated in the dish.  Freeze the leftover wine in ice cube trays then pop the frozen ubes into a ziplock bag for storage.

OR

Buy a bottle of dry white vermouth.  It can be used in most recipes that call for a dry white wine.  Store in a kitchen cabinet.  It is fortified so will keep much longer.

OR

Buy boxed white wine and store it in a cabinet.


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## csalt (Jan 26, 2008)

I live in the UK. In our supermarket you can buy 4 25cl bottles for £5.00. They have screw tops. I usually get 2 red and 2 white of whatever there is and just go ahead.
The screw top means I just recap it and stick it in the fridge til I want to use it next time. Small ones of red are good as you cannot keep red too long once opened.


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## jet (Jan 26, 2008)

Andy M. said:


> Buy a bottle of dry white vermouth.  It can be used in most recipes that call for a dry white wine.  Store in a kitchen cabinet.  It is fortified so will keep much longer....


Do you just leave it open to the air?


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## Andy M. (Jan 26, 2008)

The bottle has a screw cap.


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## larry_stewart (Jan 26, 2008)

One of the best wine dishes I ever had , was chesnuts cooked with wine and onions.  I forgot the exact recipe , But i can remember how great it was .


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## DramaQueen (Jan 26, 2008)

*Wine not only acts as a flavor enhancer, especially when making sauces, but it is a tenderizer for slow cooking, either in the oven or Crock Pot. *
*As for type of wine, for red I use Cabernet Sauvingon or a good Italian wine but for white wine I prefer Chenin Blanc or Pinot Grigio. I've read several times that **Chardonnay tends to leave a bitter finish and I have to agree it does. *

*If you seriously want to learn more about cooking with wine, go to Google.com and type in the search box "Cooking with wine."  You will get a real education on this subject and find more recipes than you can handle. *


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## ErikC (Jan 27, 2008)

I have always found a Riesling to be a good wine for cooking, but that may just be a personal thing; it is slightly sweeter and fruitier than a Chardonnay, which matches my tastes.

For red, I think you have to be more careful to match or contrast flavors and intensities. For a good middle-range flavor intensity, I like to use a Shiraz, and for heavier dishes I go with a Cabernet Sauvignon.

And to save money, I make my own wine, which is a very rewarding experience in itself. I also make beer, which will sometimes find its way into my cooking as well!


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## GotGarlic (Jan 27, 2008)

Leftover? There are only about 3 glasses of wine in a 750-ml bottle. No leftovers at our house 

I like sweeter wines, too, and I'm not a fan of red wine at all - drunk straight, it gives me headaches. I like Pinot Grigio, Riesling or even white zinfandel for white wine, and I use Chianti in my lasagna meat sauce.


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## college_cook (Jan 27, 2008)

One thing I personally want to explore as far as cooking with white wines is to try using New Zealand wines.  Apparently, a popular thing for NZ vineyards to do is to store their wines in SS drums instead of the usual oaken barrel.  I've only ever had one NZ wine before, but I can tell you it was excellent.  I think that maybe using wine that has been stored in steel maybe help to eliminate some of the more unpleasant characteristics that whites sometimes have.


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## Bigjim68 (Jan 27, 2008)

I generally use for cooking a wine that would be suitable or similar to the one that I would serve with the dish.  The exception is if I am serving an expensive wine.  I have a problem, however with pouring a $50 bottle of wine into a wine sauce, and generally use something similar in the under $10 range.  The best place to store the remainder of the bottle, in my opinion, is in glasses at the table.  Nothing enhances a dinner more than serving a compatible wine.  Don't know much about wines? Get yourself a good wine merchant and use them for a starting point to develop your own preferences.  There are a lot of good inexpensive wines around, and the merchants job is to find them and let you know.


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## DramaQueen (Jan 27, 2008)

*I gotta hand it to ya, BigJim.  You have a way with words and I couldn't agree more.  *


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## allwellbeing (Jan 27, 2008)

Adds flavor !


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## archiduc (Jan 27, 2008)

Wine is an integral part of many classic dishes - just think of Coq-au-vin or Boeuf a la mode. The wine adds a richness and depth of flavour that cannot be replicated without the wine. White wine used in a sauce chasseur, in moules mariniere or simply in poaching fish is a necessity - not an option. The question that often arises is what wine to use and how much should I pay for it? The answer is simple - if you wouldn`t drink it - don`t cook with it.
Regards,
Archiduc


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## jet (Jan 27, 2008)

I ended up with a bottle of California Pinot Grigio.

I do not drink wine, so I am going to try the ice cube suggestion.


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## Claire (Jan 28, 2008)

I want to chime in here:  if you don't drink wine, buy a fortified wine for cooking.  Vermouth, sherry, port, marsala, etc.  These have a longer shelf life than other wines and a dollop will add the rich flavor you're looking for.  I actually prefer dry vermouth to regular white wine when it comes to cooking (and yes, I am a wino).  

I have to say, though, that I ran out of wine and was going to braise a tough old chuck.  Hubby said, "I think there's a bottle of dark beer in the back of the fridge."  I braised that animal in that bottle of beer and it was to die for!  Yummy!


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## lyndalou (Jan 28, 2008)

I use dry vermouth most of the time. It's my understanding that Julia Child used to recommend it. Works for me.


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## BrazenAmateur (Jan 29, 2008)

jet said:


> How do you store the wine after you uncork the bottle?


 

Am I the only one that "stores" leftover wine in mah bellay?

Never cook with anything you couldn't at least tolerate drinking, and if there's leftover from cooking, then there's more left for drinking!

win/win


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## DramaQueen (Jan 29, 2008)

BrazenAmateur said:


> Am I the only one that "stores" leftover wine in mah bellay?
> 
> Never cook with anything you couldn't at least tolerate drinking, and if there's leftover from cooking, then there's more left for drinking!
> 
> win/win


 
*No, you're not the only one.  BigJim68 suggested that very same thing.  *


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## BrazenAmateur (Jan 29, 2008)

That'll teach me not to read the whole thread....lol


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## Bigjim68 (Jan 29, 2008)

Right on Brazen Amateur. If there is any rule about cooking with wine, it is to use a wine that you would drink with the meal. One other rule that I learned over Christmas is never to use a wine without first tasting it. Made a wine sauce for a group of guests with an unfamiliar but recommended wine and all the pan drippings from a prime rib. Turned out terrible as the wine was much too dry for the dish. Semi salvaged it with lots of sugar. Should have started out with a cab. I have used dry vermouth for cooking, but I prefer it with gin for marinating olives.


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## Bigjim68 (Jan 29, 2008)

To Claire:  Nothing wrong with using beer for cooking, I use it as liquid for chiles, pot roasts, and anywhere else where I want a yeasty taste.  Same rules apply as for wine.  Use a good beer, generally dark, and save that can of Coors Light for drinking on the deck in summer.


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## Barbara L (Jan 29, 2008)

I don't drink wine, but I do like to make what we always called "Drunk Chicken" with sherry.  I like to buy a few chickens when they are on sale.  I usually start the first one marinating in sherry and parsley, then I put the rest in freezer bags and divide the remaining sherry among the ones going in the freezer.  

I loved the Steak Marsala I had at a restaurant once and would love to make that, but all I can find around here is cooking marsala.

I didn't notice this already being addressed, but if you haven't cooked with wine before, do not use "cooking" wines.  They are full of salt.  

Barbara


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## jennyema (Jan 29, 2008)

Barbara L said:


> I loved the Steak Marsala I had at a restaurant once and would love to make that, but all I can find around here is cooking marsala.
> 
> Barbara


 
Cooking Marsala?  I've never run across that but it sounds gross.

Are you sure your liquor store doesn't carry marsala?  Pm me if mot.


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## Barbara L (Jan 29, 2008)

jennyema said:


> Cooking Marsala? I've never run across that but it sounds gross.
> 
> Are you sure your liquor store doesn't carry marsala? Pm me if mot.


I had never heard of cooking marsala either, but I saw it at the grocery store a few weeks ago.  Walked away quick!  

Truthfully, the liquor store is the only place I haven't checked.  LOL  I plan to, but our financial situation is such right now that I try to only buy what is absolutely necessary.  I check out the wine section when I am at the stores I already go to, but mainly just so I will know where to buy it later.

Barbara


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## Bigjim68 (Jan 30, 2008)

So called cooking wine is a remnant from the prohibition days and has outlived its usefulness.  It was the only alcohol legally available at the time.  Was salted to make it undrinkable.  Ought to tell you something right there.  Marsalas and other wines suitable for cooking are available at wine stores at inexpensive prices.  If I did not drink wine, I believe that I would try freezing the wine in ice cube trays, even if I had to boil out some of the alcohol first.  The flavor would still be there.  This is a trick I use for stock.  I start with a large pot and reduce it to two ice cube trays. Freeze it, then store in plastic bags.   I detect no flavor reduction.


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## Michelemarie (Jan 30, 2008)

BrazenAmateur said:


> Am I the only one that "stores" leftover wine in mah bellay?
> 
> Never cook with anything you couldn't at least tolerate drinking, and if there's leftover from cooking, then there's more left for drinking!
> 
> win/win


 
We rarely have any leftover wine either.........


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## Claire (Jan 30, 2008)

A sweet sherry will do in many recipes for marsala, just use less of it.  It is quite sweeter than marsala.  Don't buy "cooking" wine of any sort, it is too salty.


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## jet (Jan 30, 2008)

jennyema said:


> Cooking Marsala?  I've never run across that but it sounds gross.
> 
> Are you sure your liquor store doesn't carry marsala?  Pm me if mot.



I always thought that marsala was only a cooking wine.  I guess that explains why I cannot make a chicken marsala that compares to what I have at restaurants.


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## kitchenelf (Jan 30, 2008)

jet said:


> I always thought that marsala was only a cooking wine.  I guess that explains why I cannot make a chicken marsala that compares to what I have at restaurants.



That's not what jennyema meant.  There is "wine" - and there is some sort of liquid labeled "cooking wine".  One has an alcohol content and the other does not.  Just like Marsala.  There is Marsala, and then something labeled "cooking" marsala.  Anything labeled "cooking" wine, or "cooking" sherry, or "cooking" marsala is absolutely NOT the same as wine, or sherry, or marsala that one would drink.  The "cooking" varieties of these things are loaded with so much sodium that there is virtually little else to taste.

The restaurant marsala probably has a LOT more butter in it than you normally cook with and that alone will REALLY smooth out the flavor.  It could also be a different brand of marsala.  Next time you go to this restaurant ask what brand marsala they use.  Ask if they will tell you how they make the sauce.  They may do that.  

Check out this recipe and see how it compares to your recipe.  This always turns out great!


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## DramaQueen (Jan 31, 2008)

*There is a dry Marsala and a sweet Marsala.  It could be that you're using the "other" one and that may be why yours tastes differently than the restuarant's.   Don't even think of using cooking wine.  That stuff is nasty and not even in the same class as wine.*


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## suziquzie (Jan 31, 2008)

Cooking wine tastes like salt water. Which is great if you're a fish.


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## jet (Jan 31, 2008)

kitchenelf said:


> That's not what jennyema meant.  There is "wine" - and there is some sort of liquid labeled "cooking wine".  One has an alcohol content and the other does not.  Just like Marsala.  There is Marsala, and then something labeled "cooking" marsala.  Anything labeled "cooking" wine, or "cooking" sherry, or "cooking" marsala is absolutely NOT the same as wine, or sherry, or marsala that one would drink.  The "cooking" varieties of these things are loaded with so much sodium that there is virtually little else to taste.
> 
> The restaurant marsala probably has a LOT more butter in it than you normally cook with and that alone will REALLY smooth out the flavor.  It could also be a different brand of marsala.  Next time you go to this restaurant ask what brand marsala they use.  Ask if they will tell you how they make the sauce.  They may do that.
> 
> Check out this recipe and see how it compares to your recipe.  This always turns out great!



The only marsala I have ever seen in the store is the "some sort of liquid" to which you referred.  I will have to get some real marsala and try the recipe you cited.

Is there some kind of rule-of-thumb regarding what kind of wine should be added to what kind of dish (keep in mind that I do not drink wine)?


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## Hawkeye16 (Jan 31, 2008)

suziquzie said:


> Cooking wine tastes like salt water. Which is great if you're a fish.



beer on the other hand...


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## kitchenelf (Feb 1, 2008)

jet said:


> The only marsala I have ever seen in the store is the "some sort of liquid" to which you referred.  I will have to get some real marsala and try the recipe you cited.
> 
> Is there some kind of rule-of-thumb regarding what kind of wine should be added to what kind of dish (keep in mind that I do not drink wine)?



Well.........yes and no.  You can cook chicken pieces in either white wine OR red wine.  Red wine is good with spaghetti sauce but I have also added white wine to a tomato-based stew (diced canned tomatoes).  

OK - I did a quick search and THIS site seems to be interesting!  I'm off to read now!


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## Maverick2272 (Feb 1, 2008)

I am not much of a wine drinker either, and don't know squat about which wine goes with what. But, most recipes I have been picking up that call for wine tell me which to use, and if they don't I go to a specific liquor store because all the wine on their shelf is labeled with what it pairs well with. Makes it much easier. 

My wife on the other hand, she loves wine. And now that I am cooking with it, she is reaping the benefits as well as I am able to pick up wines that, again, pair with the meal we are having. So she is enjoying better selections thanks to you guys, LOL.


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## Witchlord (Mar 15, 2008)

Ill gladly cook with a bottle of wine that only costs 3 bux a bottle.  I wouldnt really drink it unless absolutly necessary but at the same time, when you cook wine your are destroying a lot of the flavor compounds and taking away a lot of the subtleties of wine.  So you dont ever want to pay more than 8 bux a bottle.  Then you pair the dish with a wine of the same type that costs 15 to 20 bux a bottle


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## GB (Mar 15, 2008)

Witchlord said:


> Ill gladly cook with a bottle of wine that only costs 3 bux a bottle.  I wouldnt really drink it unless absolutly necessary


Why? Price does not have to be a reflection of quality. How do you know you would not want to drink a $3 bottle unless you tasted it? For all you know it could turn out to be delicious. Don't judge a book by its cover or better yet don't judge a bottle by its price tag.


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## wysiwyg (Mar 15, 2008)

Why cooking with wine? and why not using the "el cheapo" kind of wine?
For the same reason you cook with unsalted butter instead of lard or shortening.
For the same reason you select produce and don't get cheaper stuff with today's expiration day.


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## crono760 (Mar 15, 2008)

I've also heard that adding an acid to a poaching liquid makes it do something...different...I think cook better?  Anyone?

I usually add white wine to my poaching liquid when poaching salmon, and I much prefer it over poaching without the wine.  It does taste better, almost subtle with just a hint of the wine I put in.

Mike


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## Saphellae (Mar 15, 2008)

> Ill gladly cook with a bottle of wine that only costs 3 bux a bottle.  I wouldnt really drink it unless absolutly necessary



Totally not true! I found that in Germany when I lived there, that often the cheaper bottle would taste the best!


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## bryankimjade (Mar 15, 2008)

I love to cook with wine, it gives such a wonderful flavor to the dish.  You have to make sure that you let it reduce or it will be too strong.  I agree with everyone else that you don't cook with wine that you wouldn't drink.  The wine that you buy in the grocery stores that call themselves cooking wine are terrible.  I would much rather use a stock rather than any of these.  But the wine that you cook with doesn't have to be expensive either.  I have used wine from the grocery store (in the alcohol section, not the vinegar isle) and the dish comes out very good.  You can find an inexpensive riunite for example in white or red depending on your dish that work perfectly well.  Of course quality ingrediants are always much better, but who can afford to put a 100. dollar bottle of wine in a chicken dish?


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## Marko (Mar 16, 2008)

Here's a link to my blog post which I entered today.  Last night I made Coq Au Vin (Chicken with Wine) at home and photographed the process step-by-step.  Coq Au Vin is a traditional French dish and is quite simple to prepare and is based on the use of red wine.

Livingston Cooks: COQ AU VIN -THE LITTLE PEASANT DISH

Cheers, 

Marko


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## DramaQueen (Mar 17, 2008)

Marko said:


> Here's a link to my blog post which I entered today. Last night I made Coq Au Vin (Chicken with Wine) at home and photographed the process step-by-step. Coq Au Vin is a traditional French dish and is quite simple to prepare and is based on the use of red wine.
> 
> Livingston Cooks: COQ AU VIN -THE LITTLE PEASANT DISH
> 
> ...


 
*Marko: I love Coq au Vin and have made it several times. I printed your recipe because it's different than the French versions I use. However, I realized there are no amounts for the ingredients. You wanna run that past us again??? Thanks.*


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## PastaKing (Mar 18, 2008)

I use wine alot when I cook. It adds flavor and makes the sauce.
Could you imagine Chicken Marsala without Marsala?


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## Marko (Mar 18, 2008)

Drama Queen:

Actually...recipes with quantities are seldom going to be seen on my blog unless I post baking recipes.  Precise quanitiies are only for maintaining consistency in my opinion and the purpose of my blog is to encourage people to look at the principles of cooking rather than to remember quantities.  

Marko


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## Marko (Mar 18, 2008)

Drama Queen:

Actually...I will try to give you some of the measurements, however...I usually never measure anything when I cook unless I am standardizing a recipe for my staff in the kitchen.

In the Coq Au Vin recipe I posted, I used 12 chicken thighs.  This would serve six people.  I used one bottle of dty red wine, about 4 cups of mushrooms, 8 shallots quartered and 4 cloves of garlic.  The bacon that was added first was a julienne that would have been about one cup.

That's pretty much it!

Hope that helps.

Marko


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## Witchlord (Mar 30, 2008)

GB said:


> Why? Price does not have to be a reflection of quality. How do you know you would not want to drink a $3 bottle unless you tasted it? For all you know it could turn out to be delicious. Don't judge a book by its cover or better yet don't judge a bottle by its price tag.



Come on now, i didnt say all 3 dollar bottles are bad, i just said i wouldnt _usually_ drink them.  i have gotten some good 3 dollar bottles before and i have drank them, but 9 times out of 10 i wont.  I was basically just emphasizing the point that you dont need to spend 20 dollars on a bottle of wine to cook with.

EDIT: Should have put "usually" instead of "really" in my original post, but the emphasis is the same, though.


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## expatgirl (Mar 31, 2008)

Nothing is more boring than plain chicken breasts---but I've put myself on a low sodium diet and believe me wine adds that zing that makes you not miss the salt------it's esp. good to use when I poach the breasts---I add onions and garlic and red wine---the flavor is incredible and the chicken is so tender (I poach skin side up) and then remove when eating--Mrs. Dash and fresh cracked pepper are the only other ingredients


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## Marko (Mar 31, 2008)

Marsala is excellent for cooking as is almost any spirit.  Beers, wines, fortified wines, liquors, vodkas, scotches, gins, tequillas, bourbons.....can all be used to add flavor to sauces, desserts and cooked meat dishes.  

Marko


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## DramaQueen (Mar 31, 2008)

expatgirl said:


> Nothing is more boring than plain chicken breasts---but I've put myself on a low sodium diet and believe me wine adds that zing that makes you not miss the salt------it's esp. good to use when I poach the breasts---I add onions and garlic and red wine---the flavor is incredible and the chicken is so tender (I poach skin side up) and then remove when eating--Mrs. Dash and fresh cracked pepper are the only other ingredients


 
*I hear ya.  I make my chicken breasts by sprinkling with Mrs. Dash original (no salt) and sauteeing them quickly in 1 Tbsp. olive oil.  Sprinkle with Tabasco or Frank's Hot Sauce and you have a great little meal.  Only takes about 3 minutes to cook.  And the flavor is superb!*


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## AllenOK (Mar 31, 2008)

expatgirl said:


> Nothing is more boring than plain chicken breasts---but I've put myself on a low sodium diet and believe me wine adds that zing that makes you not miss the salt------it's esp. good to use when I poach the breasts---I add onions and garlic and red wine---the flavor is incredible and the chicken is so tender (I poach skin side up) and then remove when eating--Mrs. Dash and fresh cracked pepper are the only other ingredients



Wine has many different chemicals in it that affect flavor.  One of those is potassium chloride, which is actually a kind of salt, and reacts on your tongue the same way the sodium chloride (table salt) does.

If a person is on a low-sodium diet, cooking with wine, and lemon juice, will help boost the flavor of food, while decrease the amount of sodium ingested.


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## Caine (Mar 31, 2008)

*
"Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not?" -Robert F. Kennedy

*


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## archiduc (Mar 31, 2008)

Hi All,

Cooking with wine? The truth is that many classic dishes in the French repetoire include the use of wine or fortified wines and liquers. For example, if one looked at the works od that great doyenne of cooking - Julia Child, you will find recipes using white wine, red wine, brandy, sherry, Noilly Prat, Champagne, beer, lager, cider, Calvados and Armagnac etc..

The reason for using any alcohol in any dish is predicated/based on 2 reasons. The first is the flavour which the alcohol gives to the dish and the second is that it is tradtional.

Consequently, regarding the choice - buy the best that YOU can afford and second, use the wine or alcohol appropriate, relevant and integral to the dish.

If you choose not to use an alcohol for whatever reason(s), my advice to you would be to contact this messageboard for advice for an alternative. For example, in a Carbonnade de Boeuf, it may be that you need to cook the onions really well and add a good dash or 2 or 3 of Worcestershire sauce to get that depth of flavour. What you need is the note of a bass not a tenor - you get this with the beer/ale/lager. However, in the absence of this you may need the Worcestershire sauce or a dash of Balsamic vinegar - red or white.  

Hope this helps,
Archiduc


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## expatgirl (Mar 31, 2008)

DramaQueen said:


> *I hear ya.  I make my chicken breasts by sprinkling with Mrs. Dash original (no salt) and sauteeing them quickly in 1 Tbsp. olive oil.  Sprinkle with Tabasco or Frank's Hot Sauce and you have a great little meal.  Only takes about 3 minutes to cook.  And the flavor is superb!*


Thank the cooking gods divine that there is wine and Mrs. Dash!!!


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## jennyema (Apr 1, 2008)

archiduc said:


> ..
> 
> The reason for using any alcohol in any dish is predicated/based on 2 reasons. The first is the flavour which the alcohol gives to the dish and the second is that it is tradtional.


 

Actually the two reasons are that #1 alcohol dissolves flavor components that are not water or oil soluable -- thus releasing added flavor from your ingredients (tomatoes are a good example) and #2 for the flavor of the alcohol itself (eg, a hit of brandy in onion soup).


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## GotGarlic (Apr 1, 2008)

jennyema said:


> Actually the two reasons are that #1 alcohol dissolves flavor components that are not water or oil soluable -- thus releasing added flavor from your ingredients (tomatoes are a good example) and #2 for the flavor of the alcohol itself (eg, a hit of brandy in onion soup).



And what would she-crab soup be without sherry?


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