# Lets do a KCBS informal apearance survey



## Gary in VA (Mar 30, 2005)

Here is a picture of a Rib entry.  Post the score you would give this entry and any comments or suggestions.  Good or bad.  I'll be honest with ya.  It is my rib entry at Lynchburg last year.  Just curious as to what you guys would score it and what you think.  I don't have the actual scores in front of me at the present time.  I will post em later.  Give me all comments, good or bad.. you wont hurt my feelings.  8) 

Maybe I shouldn't be showin this so close to Kings mountain.. but hey.. what the heck.   





click for larger version


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2005)

A primer for those not familiar with KCBS Scoring or competition for that matter might be in order here...


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 30, 2005)

Niagara River Smoker said:
			
		

> A primer for those not familiar with KCBS Scoring or competition for that matter might be in order here...



I agree with Bill's suggestion.

However with the best score being a 10, I'd say 8-9.  As Raine stated, a little shine you'd be in the money!  They're too pretty to eat!  Fine job Gary!


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## Finney (Mar 30, 2005)

Now I don't know noth'n bout judg'n no ribs... but I'd eat those.

When I clicked on the picture to enlarge, they looked better.  _and a little shinier_
I tried looking good as I could, but couldn't make out a smoke ring.  It's probably there, just couldn't see it in the picture.

_you ain't cooking with gas are ya?_ just kidding

I'd give them an 8... probably more if I were seeing them_ in person_.


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2005)

Chris Finney said:
			
		

> I tried looking good as I could, but couldn't make out a smoke ring.  It's probably there, just couldn't see it in the picture.


There's my point exactly.


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## Gary in VA (Mar 30, 2005)

*KCBS scoring*

these are Juggys words from the other forum

"The scoring system is from 9 (excellent) to 2 (bad). All numbers between two and nine may be used to score an entry. Six is the starting point. A score of one is a disqualification and requires approval by a Contest Rep."

A score of 1 will not be accepted as I, your table captain and contest representative have deemed this a legal entry. There is no reason for this tray to be given a score of 1 as there are at least six identifiable and separate pieces, there is no "puddling" of sauce, and the entry is not sculpted. Please list your score in whole numbers only, as for example, a score such as 7.5 will be counted as an 8. 

Please DO NOT look at what others have scored this tray before you post your score and comments and please do not list your score as a part of the title to your post. This is "blind" judging and you are bound by your honor as a judge not to let others influence your score. This tray should NOT be compared to any other tray of chicken you have seen before as this tray should be judged on its own merits.

Please justify your score with a short answer stating why the tray rated the score you gave. Your comments are what make this a learning experience for all of us. 

You do NOT have to be a competition cook or BBQ judge to participate in this survey. Inexperienced judges are more than welcomed and are encouraged to participate.


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2005)

What about a smoke ring or lack there of?  Don't KCBS rules say that the smoke ring is a non-issue?


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## Gary in VA (Mar 30, 2005)

to Niagra... I THINK the smoke ring is a non-issue.  I am still a newbie, so take that for what it is worth.

To Raine... Yes, I submitted it to Juggy.  Just this morning.  He has not yet responded.  We'll see.

to Chris... GAS... Are you Mad?  Geez man .. give me a little credit here.. hahahah


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## Finney (Mar 30, 2005)

Raine said:
			
		

> Smoke ring is not a requirement.   Should not be used against the entry.



That's just wrong.  :?


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## Finney (Mar 30, 2005)

TexLaw said:
			
		

> I don't compete, I've never judged Q, and I don't know the guidelines.  I looked around for the guidelines on the KCBS site and didn't find them fast enough.  However, *unless you're penalized for looking damn good*, I would think those would score on the high end.
> 
> TL



I've been penalized my whole life for looking damn good.  :badgrin:  :badgrin:  :badgrin:


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2005)

TexLaw said:
			
		

> I don't compete, I've never judged Q, and I don't know the guidelines.  I looked around for the guidelines on the KCBS site and didn't find them fast enough.  However, unless you're penalized for looking damn good, I would think those would score on the high end.
> 
> 
> TL


That's probably the case with most here on this forum and it was my point.  I, personally, think that surveys such as those posted by Juggy are a great way of promoting bbq, but everyone needs to know and understand the rules, be it KCBS, FBA, MIM, other.  Juggy's surveys don't give people the rules, only his guidelines.  

May I suggest a set of rules be posted and then survey's be posted using the same guidelines so that everyone is on the same page?  If this is too formal or too much of a pita, just tell me to STFU! I'll go away quietly...

 8)


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## Rob D. (Mar 30, 2005)

Not being a judge myself, I would give them an 8.  Probably could be a little shinier, and that rib on the right side looks out of place compared to the one on the left.  Does that even count - symmetry?  I would still inhale them, though.....

Rob


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## Gary in VA (Mar 30, 2005)

Niagara River Smoker said:
			
		

> TexLaw said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dude!.. Please please please note that this is an INFORMAL survey.. dont take it too seriously.  I am just lookin fer comments, suggestions and the such...   

I see alot of suggestions for "more shiney".. how do I acomplish this.. Spritz em before the turn in?  More sauce?  I don't usually like a whole lot of sauce drippn off those ribs.  I think I did a final touch up brushing right before I closed the box on these.


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2005)

Cool...I'll just shut up now............


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## Captain Morgan (Mar 30, 2005)

Purely from a presentation point of view (and I know very little about pleasing judges, or people who post here for that matter, I'd say they look a little dry.  I don't know if shiny is the answer I'd use, but shiny indicated moisture to me, and that is a crucial point of looking good in my book.  From the picture, I can't see much of the interior meat at all,,,maybe I could if I could just hold the box up and see those side pieces better....but I'd like to see the contrast of the outside and inside
meat.

  I know judges probably don't like to see a lot of sauce so you can't hide anything, but for eating purposes....I'd like to see more sauce on em!

Great job though, looks like there's a lot of meat on dem bones!

Hang around here more Gary, I'd like to do more stuff like this!


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2005)

Hmmmm... I guess I'll rate it a 3, or maybe 4...  Do you just throw that one out 'cause it's the lowest?  Didn't see that in the rulez!!  :p  :p  :p


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2005)

Come on, Raine..Work WITH me..Not against me...Do you not see my point? :?  :? 

Never mind.......


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## Nick Prochilo (Mar 30, 2005)

I'll give you a 7 on looks. Like to taste them and give you a real score!
Finney, you been penalized for lots of things I'm sure, but your good looks wouldn't be one! :badgrin:  :badgrin:  :badgrin:


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## Finney (Mar 30, 2005)

Niagara River Smoker said:
			
		

> Come on, Raine..Work WITH me..Not against me...Do you not see my point? :?  :?
> 
> Never mind.......



Where's Larry when you need him. :badgrin:    :badgrin:


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## Finney (Mar 30, 2005)

Nick Prochilo said:
			
		

> Finney, you been penalized for lots of things I'm sure, but your good looks wouldn't be one! :badgrin:  :badgrin:  :badgrin:



Don't hate me cause I'm beautiful.


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## Nick Prochilo (Mar 30, 2005)

Who could hate you?


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## Finney (Mar 30, 2005)

Nick Prochilo said:
			
		

> Who could hate you?



You've got a point there. :shy:


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2005)

You really want to know???    

 :badgrin:


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## Nick Prochilo (Mar 30, 2005)

Easy Bill, don't burst his bubble!


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2005)

Niagara River Smoker said:
			
		

> Hmmmm... I guess I'll rate it a 3, or maybe 4...  Do you just throw that one out 'cause it's the lowest?  Didn't see that in the rulez!!  :p  :p  :p


OK, Revised...I'd give an "8 -" . . Could use a little more shine but damn!! They look pretty good!!


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## LarryWolfe (Mar 30, 2005)

Raine said:
			
		

> Larry KCBS scoring range is 2-9,
> 
> 
> The scoring system is from 9 (Excellent) to 2 (Bad).
> ...



Okay now that I know a bit of the guidelines I've give an honest answer the best I can without tasting.  

With taste being a HUGE issue, I'll still give you a 7, with a bit more "bang" with the presentation you got an 8.  If they taste even half as good as they look, plus the little "shine" in the presentation, you got a perfect 9.

Here's how I came up w/my answer.  

1.  Nice "looking" texture.
2.  Ribs don't appear to be greasy, but look moist and not overcooked/dry.
3.  Ribs appear to be nicely and evenly cooked (no blackness)
4.  Ribs appear to be very meaty and nicely trimmed of excessive fat.

From an appearance standpoint only, add something to gain a bit of glare on the ribs.  That is honestly the only thing I'd do differently if they were my ribs, without tasting them.  I am not a competitor or judge, but those are some mighty fine looking ribs.


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## Nick Prochilo (Mar 30, 2005)

Hey Gary, now that a lot of us judged your ribs, you stated that these were the ribs you entered last year, what did the judges give them for a score?


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## jminion1 (Mar 30, 2005)

They look like a 7, there are some things that could be done to make them score higher, use a glaze with some butter or honey for shine. You can build up the garnish so the ribs set up on top making the arraignment easier. Overall good turn-in.
Jim


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## Captain Morgan (Mar 30, 2005)

Raine, is there a booklet available with the rules in it?


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## Woodman1 (Mar 30, 2005)

I wonder if they "tasted" good?

I wonder if Gary had "fun?"

I wonder if they're gonna pull the Pope's feeding tube out?


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## Gary in VA (Mar 31, 2005)

Ok.. I checked my scores last night.. actually they werent as high as I thought they were.  I still forgot to bring the tally sheet with me this morning, But, I do remember the apearance scores were 8, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8

so.. you guys were pretty much right on track with the scoring.  I will try to boost up the "shine factor" the next time.  thanks for all your input.

to woodman... Hell yes I had fun.. thats the name of the game.. I wouldnt do this otherwise.  I have no "expectations" for getting my name called, so, it is an awesome feeling when I do.... as to your question if they tasted good.. I will say those particular ribs werent my best, but I liked em and have made a few minor changes in hopes to boost the taste factor.  We'll see at KM in two weeks.

Thanks to all.  and any additional comments are always welcomed.


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## Captain Morgan (Mar 31, 2005)

Gary in VA said:
			
		

> I will say those particular ribs werent my best, but I liked em and have made a few minor changes in hopes to boost the taste factor.  We'll see at KM in two weeks.
> 
> Thanks to all.  and any additional comments are always welcomed.



See, that's the thing...like the ribs I gave Bill....just got lucky one time, and now Bill thinks I can do that anytime, and at a contest!  I'm sure it's fun, but as bad as you'd want to win, it must stink knowing that what you've spent hours preparing could have and usually would have been better!

   Sounds like my golf game! ;-)


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## Gary in VA (Mar 31, 2005)

Well, Captain... I know that feeling.. Bill can attest to this.  Last year at Kings mountain I was VERY disappointed in all the things I turned in.  My ribs were overdone, brisket was dry, and the pork wasnt up to my usual standard.  But, we hit the middle of the pack on most things, so we came away with a learning experience under our belts.

If you are interested in competing.. you just have to go do it.  No matter where you place you should just have fun.  Go in with that frame of mind and you will come out feeling good with whatever you might get. 

I have the best time meeting new people and finally meeting the ones I have talked to on here.


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## K Kruger (Mar 31, 2005)

Raine said:
			
		

> Judges are shown the boxes 1 at a time, and the judges then score for presentation. Once all the entries have been scored for presentation, the boxes are passed to each judge for their judging samples. Then the judge scores first entry for taste and tenderness, then scores the next entry for taste & tenderness,so on. You score each entry on it's on merit and entries are not compared to another entry.



Does all this mean, essentially, that by the time last box (or earlier) gets tasted it's being tasted cold?


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