# How to stop egg white foaming in water



## BenBennetts (Apr 6, 2014)

Hi, I'm new to this forum so apologies if the answer to this question has been aired before.

I cook poached eggs in a normal egg poacher, the utensil that has four pots suspended in a metal plate and placed over boiling water in a pan below.  Sometimes, some of the albumen (egg white) escapes from the egg, trickles through the venting holes in the metal plate and enters the boiling water below.  The result?  Foam everywhere, ruining the eggs and necessitating a restart.

I suspect that there is something in the kitchen - vinegar, salt, whatever - that I can use to neutralise the foaming thus allowing the eggs to continue cooking as normal.  Albumen is mostly water plus a few proteins and it's obviously the protein that creates the foam.  What will neutralise the protein and prevent the foam reaction?

Any ideas?

Ben


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## BenBennetts (Apr 6, 2014)

Footnote to my question.

I don’t want a solution based on an alternative way of poaching eggs.  I know about techniques based on dropping eggs into a saucepan of vinegar-laced boiling or near-boiling swirling water.  I want to know how to stop the water from foaming if I accidentally get some of the albumen into the boiling water when I use my poacher.  I like my poacher!

Ben


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Apr 6, 2014)

BenBennetts said:


> Footnote to my question.
> 
> I don’t want a solution based on an alternative way of poaching eggs.  I know about techniques based on dropping eggs into a saucepan of vinegar-laced boiling or near-boiling swirling water.  I want to know how to stop the water from foaming if I accidentally get some of the albumen into the boiling water when I use my poacher.  I like my poacher!
> 
> Ben



i have an egg poacher like yours.  The egg is foaming because you are boiling the water to fast.  Simply lower the temperature, so that the water is still boiling, but not so hard.  I don't put the egg-cups in until the water is boiling.  That way, I usually don't end up over-filling the cups, and the butter remains cold so that it coats the cup when I put the egg into it.  I also add a bit of S&P to the cups before adding the egg, then season very lightly on top.  One more thing, my egg cups won't comfortably hold extra-large, or jumbo eggs.  So I never cook anything bigger than large grade.

As for other poaching methods, that you don't want to hear, if you bring the water to a boil, seasoned with S&P, and then back it off until it is still, but hot, you can drop the eggs directly in, without vinegar, or swirling the water.  Imply use a butter-coated ladle to hold the egg, dip it and the egg into the water and hold just until the white starts turning white, then release into the water.  The egg will remain in one mass, and come out so delicate, with perfect seasoning, and done to the stage you like your egg.  It makes an amazing poached egg.  I hated eggs poached in water, and tried the vinegar and swirl method, and others, and didn't know about seasoning the water.  Until I tried the method I just described, the poaching pan eggs were my all time favorite eggs.  Now, they are in 2nd place.

I believe that name for the way I poach my eggs is - coddled eggs.

Seeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Apr 6, 2014)

Update - I just looked up "coddled egg" here - Coddled egg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
By definition, if you lower the temp of your poaching pan water so that it no longer boils, you are making a coddled egg.  And yes, this will prevent your egg white from foaming.  I guess my water immersion technique is a poached egg after all.

Use either a coddled egg, or a poached egg to make Eggs Benedict.  It will change your life for the better.

Seeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## menumaker (Apr 6, 2014)

Slow down, you move too fast.......Chief is right. Lower your heat, what you are after is to see the tiny bubbles in the water under the cups just playing nicely and quietly!  It's also possible that you are using good big eggs that are a bit large for the cups in your pan? So, either get med. or small ( ....no, don't do that )  or try the other method that Chief suggests which truly works like a dream believe me.


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## Mad Cook (Apr 6, 2014)

OK, so I'm nit-picking but this discussion is not about poached eggs. Strictly speaking it's about oeufs en cocotte which are a different kettle of fish (to mix metaphors).

Poaching involves the eggs, fish, chicken or whatever being cooked gently _in_ the liquid not in containers above it.

No probs if oeufs en cocotte are what you want. I agree with the above post which said you need either smaller eggs or larger individual containers - oeufs en cocotte are traditionally cooked in little porcelain ramekins (or I use those glass ramekins that come with GU desserts - waste not, want not!) in a bain marie or water bath with a lid, either on top of the stove or in the oven. IMO The top of the stove is easier as you can keep an eye on them. I make several of them them for dinner party "starters" in a Spanish covered electric pan with a glass lid that I bought for making paella (like this 
Buffalo CC729 Electric Multipan - but a lidded frying pan or skillet would do fine)


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Apr 6, 2014)

You can give it a French name if you want.  I even agree that what is being made in the pan with the cups isn't really a poached egg.  But here's a similar pan to what I own - Demeyere Egg Poacher | Bloomingdale's

All pans I've ever seen of this type, any brand name you choose, is called an egg poaching pan.  From the definition that I found earlier, it more resembles a pan for making coddled eggs, if you're using the the name from the British Aisles.

Anyway you look at it, the answer was given to the op, use smaller eggs to prevent spillovers, and lower the stove temperature.  The other info was just that, added information.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## BenBennetts (Apr 7, 2014)

Thanks to all of the above who have replied. I have a few follow-on comments, and a question.

First, I have tried reducing the boil rate of the water once the foam starts to appear but to no avail. Once the albumen is in the water, that’s it. No amount of fiddling with the gas flow works. The only thing to do is curse and throw the eggs and water away and start again.

Second, I am partial to poached duck eggs. They are larger than chicken eggs, as pointed out by Chief Longwind and MenuMaker, and they are often the cause of the problem because the poacher pots are not designed for anything over a standard size egg. Now I eat my duck eggs boiled, not poached!

Third, I am a Brit living in the UK. (I need to work out how to add UK after Fareham in my profile.) My wife and I used to own a 16th century farmhouse and we populated the house with ancient things including a couple of Victorian egg coddlers. Egg coddlers are not ramekins. An egg coddler is a small china pot with a metal screw top lid. The egg is broken into the pot; the lid is screwed down, tight; and the whole kit and caboodle is fully immersed in rolling boiling water for around 7 or 8 minutes. The coddled egg, when ready, is superb.

When we moved from the farm, we either gave or threw away the coddlers. I regret that now. A coddler would have taken a full size duck egg. I’ve not worked out how to insert an image in these replies but if you google Royal Worcester Egg Coddlers and switch to Images you will see what I’m talking about. We owned the Victorian equivalent of the coddlers with cherries on, called Evesham.

Fourth, thanks for all the alternative methods of poaching/coddling/oeufs-en-cocotting the eggs. I will try some of the techniques. 

Last, I appreciate the answers you have all given me but nobody has yet answered my question – what can I put in the water to stop the foaming once the albumen has entered it? 

Ben


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## BenBennetts (Apr 7, 2014)

I figured out how to say where I am located and how to post an image of myself.  I'm posing with a medieval cross called Fat Betty.  She's located on a long distance trail called the Coast-to-Coast in the north of England.  (I'm a  long-distance walker when I'm not poaching eggs.)

Now I need to find out how to upload an image from my laptop hard drive into a posting.


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## Silversage (Apr 7, 2014)

If you break an egg open on a plate, you'll see three distinct parts to the egg.  The yolk, the thick white, and the thin white.  As an egg ages, the thick egg white, which mounds up around the yolk, slowly breaks down into a thin, watery, less viscous egg white.  It's this thinner part that's causing your difficulty.  When it gets in the water, it doesn't hold together in a mass like the thicker white does.  It dissipates and clouds up the water as you're observing.

Kenji Alt did a good article on poaching eggs on The Food Lab at Serious Eats.  He breaks the egg into a fine mesh strainer, and rolls is around a bit.  The loose, watery part of the white will drain away.  Now when you lower the egg into the water, it holds together as a mass.  Although he wasn't addressing this problem specifically, a side effect is that the thin white isn't there to cloud the water or create those unsightly strings of egg white floating around.

Since trying Kenji's method, I just strain, drop in water, and they're good to go every time.

An adjunct to this......I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that in parts of Europe, it's not standard practice to refrigerate eggs.  The thick white breaks done much more quickly in to thin white at room temperature.  If you don't already, try storing fresh eggs in the fridge.  It may also help.  Cold eggs poach more nicely.


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## menumaker (Apr 7, 2014)

I wasn't going to get involved with the 'coddled' egg discussion only because that wasn't really what you were asking but, yes, egg coddlers are wonderful and I love cooking them in my old ones. Have you tried to find any on Ebay? might be worth a look?? Now, just to raise a few eyebrows ( am I going to regret this? ) I cook my 'boiled'  eggs like this. I put them (with shells on of course), in my electric kettle. Yes, you have read that right. Add enough cold water to cover and switch on. As the water boils, the kettle switches off and I then time for 6 minutes. They come out perfect and believe it or not it helps to get rid of any scale build up in the kettle.


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## BenBennetts (Apr 7, 2014)

Ha! Now we're getting there. Thanks Silversage for your thin/thick white explanation. That all makes sense. You might have solved the problem because, being a European, I don't (strictly, my wife doesn't) store eggs in a 'fridge. They sit on the worktop in the kitchen even though I see that there is a place in the 'fridge to place eggs. Maybe I'll put eggs for poaching in the bespoke place in the 'fridge and leave the rest outside? Thanks again to all of you who have responded to my request for help. I'll let you know how I get on.

Ben
-----------------------------------------
"If your dog is fat, you're not getting enough exercise."  (Anon)


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## CWS4322 (Apr 7, 2014)

I too have misplaced my egg coddlers...I keep imagining that they must be in one of those many boxes somewhere...

I eat 2 poached eggs almost every day. The eggs are as fresh as they come (still warm from the hen). The fresher the egg, the more the white adheres to the yolk. I use warm eggs. I don't store eggs in the fridge until after I wash them (once the bloom is removed). I read once that eggs 0-48 hours old are the best for poaching...I don't think the temp of the egg matters. The freshness most definitely does.


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## dcSaute (Apr 7, 2014)

I have a mantra . . . the best solution to a problem is not to create it.

methinks you've nailed the problem - the egg volume is too much for the cup size, the white overflows into the water below.
the older the egg, the less viscous the white -  if it gets real thin, certainly isn't going to help the situation.  super fresh the white may be cohesive enough to 'rise up' by capillary action over the 'rim' of the cup and 'stay put'

so...to the question of how to stop the foaming.... 
not had the problem, but some quick surfing sez:  a couple drops of oil in the water.

the vinegar trick may work - if the pan / cup insert is aluminum, the acid will discolor it; too much acid / long term may result in etching/pitting.....

acids have the same effect as heat on proteins - only the protein strands are 'de-natured' chemically.  this is the basis behind vinegar in the water.

for "true poaching" - the acid causes the white to contract/shrivel up/congeal 'immediately' - so the white does not string out in the poaching water.

silicone compounds are also used to impede foaming; seems a bit much for the home kitchen, tho....

when I have a crowd to feed, I use a large, deep fry pan with water brought to a soft simmer, heat proof clear glass bowls (which double for mise en place) spray lightly with vegetable oil, crack the egg into the glass bowl, float in the simmering water.  I have a sufficient number of glass bowls I can pump out a decent "production quantity" with little disruption.

the beauty of the bowls in your case is:  they'll take a big egg!


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## BenBennetts (Apr 8, 2014)

Thanks to all who have contributed.  I now know the cause of the problem; I have several solutions to try; and I have several alternative ways of poaching eggs, including the larger duck eggs.  Life is potentially wonderful again.  A-poaching I will go.  Thanks again.  

Ben
---------------------------------------------------
"There's no such thing as bad weather, only unsuitable clothing."  (Alfred Wainwright)


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## FrankZ (Apr 8, 2014)

menumaker said:


> believe it or not it helps to get rid of any scale build up in the kettle.



I find it curious.  Aren't egg shells calcium?  Isn't scale also caused by calcium?

Or am I misguided?


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## taxlady (Apr 8, 2014)

FrankZ said:


> I find it curious.  Aren't egg shells calcium?  Isn't scale also caused by calcium?
> 
> Or am I misguided?


I was wondering the same thing.


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## taxlady (Apr 8, 2014)

If you decide to store eggs in the fridge, be sure to store them in the carton. Otherwise they can start to dry out and to absorb odours from other food the fridge.


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## Addie (Apr 8, 2014)

I am with Mad Cook. I have several custard cups and when I have several folks who want poached eggs, I drop the eggs into well butter-greased custard cups and put the cups into barely simmering water. I have a SS 12" sauté pan and can fit several cups in it all at the same time. The cups are big enough to hold even a jumbo egg. Which is about the same size as a duck egg. 

Any egg like most protein foods need gentle heat. Don't bring the water to a full boil and then lower to a simmer. You only want to see tiny bubbles sitting on the bottom of the pan. Bring the water to "just" a bare simmer. Then place the custard cups in the water. Use enough water so that it comes half way up the custard cup. You will still have your eggs poached the way you like to do them, but without all that miserable foaming. It may take a bit longer for them to completely cook through. But if you can, place a cover on them as in Mad Cook's pan. But watch the heat and bubbles so that they don't break through the top of the water. You may need to turn the heat down even lower. If the custard cups protrude above the top of the pan, then use a piece of foil to cover them. Or just place the pan lid on the edges of the cups. 

If you don't have any custard cups on hand, then measure one egg in a measuring cup to determine how many ounces it is. Then when and if you decide to purchase some custard cups, you will know just how big you need to have them. Does this answer your question? 

Good luck.


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## Addie (Apr 8, 2014)

taxlady said:


> If you decide to store eggs in the fridge, be sure to store them in the carton. Otherwise they can start to dry out and to absorb odours from other food the fridge.



Excellent advice TL. Don't store them on the shelf on the door. Worst place for eggs.


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## dcSaute (Apr 8, 2014)

I so dislike being the village idiot - way too many people point that out to me....right regular.

but, can someone explain why the air sac in an egg keeps getting bigger while the egg is absorbing odors from the refrigerator?

like comma the air sac getting bigger means that there is a constant consistent continued exodus of "vapours" from the egg.  

with all that exiting the egg, how does the refrigerator odor get into the egg?  
do the bad odors wait for the defrost cycle to 'enter the egg'?

oh, and should anyone think that a paper / EPS egg carton is any kind of air / moisture / odor barrier..... not really.  sorry about that.


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## Addie (Apr 8, 2014)

dcSaute said:


> I so dislike being the village idiot - way too many people point that out to me....right regular.
> 
> but, can someone explain *why the air sac in an egg keeps getting bigger *while the egg is absorbing odors from the refrigerator?
> 
> ...



The egg shell is porous. So as you know part of the white of the egg consists partly of water. That water evaporates through the shell that is porous. Odors go through those pores and water evaporates through them in the opposite direction. 

Put a warm head of cooked cabbage or cauliflower in the fridge and see what your eggs taste like after sitting on the shelf out of the carton. The carton is better protection than none at all. A lot of folks will purchase a plastic container meant for eggs and transfer their eggs to that. Tupperware sells them. And you can also find them on eBay. Or if your grocery store sells eggs in one of those clear plastic egg cartons, buy a dozen, and hang onto the empty carton to refill it with your regular eggs.


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## Addie (Apr 8, 2014)

And you are not the Village Idiot. Not is this village anyhow. We don't have idiots. Just nice people.


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## dcSaute (Apr 8, 2014)

thanks Addie,

but there's a  couple of issues.

the initial egg volume loss is carbon dioxide.
the next volume loss is water vapor.

the CO2 and the H2O are in a constant stream "out of the egg"

the suggestion that odors - much bigger molecules than CO2 and H2O some how move in the opposite direction just does not work with real science.

I was the Technical Services Director for a (then) large corporation selling packaging products to what shall be an un-named very large company - started with P and G - who had the rather nasty habit of checking all their supplier claims.  I guess I may have an unfair advantage to understanding how various 'vapours' move around the world and through various materials.

that a paper/EPS/thermoformed plastic egg carton per the typical design is a "barrier" to any kind of moisture / gas loss / gain inside a refrigerator is, sorry - but put bluntly/truthfully - quite contradictory to the real world.

>>Put a warm head of cooked cabbage or cauliflower in the fridge
neither is out-gassing.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Apr 8, 2014)

Addie said:


> And you are not the Village Idiot. Not is this village anyhow. We don't have idiots. Just nice people.



+1
I'm the village idiot.  Just ask my boss.  In reality, I do have an answer for you.

As Addie said, egg whites contain a fair amount of water.  Steam will not go through the egg shell, but water vapor will (think GoreTex).  As the vapor exits the egg, probably due to osmotic pressure, a vacuum is formed that draws in air and any odor molecules small enough to pass through the pores.  This is why the bubble forms, and enlarges over time, and the eggs absorb other flavors.

As for the paper carton, it helps, but as you said, won't seal the eggs completely against odors.  But then, neither will plastic.  We used plastic shells to contain lead-acid batteries that we sold to customers.  We used plastic because the outgassed hydrogen from the batteries, if contained by a metal enclosure, created an explosion hazard.  The hydrogen molecules though, were small enough to pass through the plastic shell, nearly unimpeded, eliminating hydrogen buildup.

So yes, paper cartons help.  Plastic helps more.  But the best way to keep your eggs from gaining unwanted flavors is to use them up within a week or so after purchase.

Hope that helps.

Now, I think I'll go home, make mistakes while creating Easter goodies, and be the village idiot.  And remember, when people think you're the village idiot, they expect less of you, and you can get more of what you want to do done.

Seeeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## FrankZ (Apr 8, 2014)

In our fridge we have an egg tray, not covered, just a tray.  Our eggs are fine.

Not that I make it a habit of having foul smelling things in the fridge.  But there are times that something does have a strong smell, like cabbage, and we never have any issues with the taste of the egg.


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## dcSaute (Apr 8, 2014)

>> As the vapor exits the egg, probably due to osmotic pressure, a vacuum is formed that draws in air and any odor molecules small enough to pass through the pores. This is why the bubble forms

aaaahhhhh,  hold on a sec.  

the VI wants to know, why is a really fresh egg white cloudy?  why does a really fresh egg white become "clear" with age?

the egg has a yolk, the egg has a white, there is a membrane between the white bit and the shell.

so the theory is "something" inside the yolk/white "exits" - to "exit" that "something" has to pass through the membrane.

the air sac forms between the membrane and the shell.  if proof is required, go peel an egg.

the "something" - having exited the yolk/white and passed through the membrane, must now "exit" the actual shell faster than something else on the 'outside pushing in' to create the 'vacuum' into which odors are drawn.

do I got this right?


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Apr 9, 2014)

I believe you've got it.  I would suspect that the membrane that is against the shell is a semi-permeable membrane, like that membrane that separates the intestinal tract from the blood vessels that absorb nutrients from the gut.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## PrincessFiona60 (Apr 9, 2014)

I thought I was the Village Idiot...maybe maybe demoted to Court jester...


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## taxlady (Apr 9, 2014)

I honestly don't know if eggs can absorb fridge odours. I read it on a egg site. I leave my eggs in the carton, whether it's cardboard or plastic. I use the egg tray in the fridge for hard boiled eggs.


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Apr 9, 2014)

PrincessFiona60 said:


> I thought I was the Village Idiot...maybe maybe demoted to Court jester...


 
They don't allow ogres and ogress's into villages, idiot or not.  Europeans were funny that way.  But villager, or just a humble ogress on the outskirts of the village, you are no idiot.  Indeed, you are a princess, though in Europe, with all the marying withing the same bloodlines, that was no garuntee of quality either.  

Fortunatly, we know you, and I suspect their are no inter-family marriages among ogers.  You are no idiot, any way you look at it.  Though you may be right about being a jester.  What am I saying!  I know that you *are* a jester.

Seeeeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North


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## dcSaute (Apr 9, 2014)

>>if eggs can absorb fridge odours. 
likely falls into the "ye olde kitchen" tales.

quite some years ago when I started researching the "truths" to such things, I found a web site that 'documented' how much water was 'lost' while eggs were stored in the home fridge.  regrets, didn't "save" that site - but it was a .edu type non-egg industry thing.

misc background you may not wish to know about:
the initial "air sac" in a egg is created when the egg "cools down" from the hen's body temperature.  it is created at the "big end" because - do not shoot the messenger - the shell is weaker / more porous at the big end.

the shell and membranes (there's more than one, technically....) are "permeable" - this is really quite an absolute requirement for a fertilized egg to grow a chick.  it's a animal, it needs oxygen and it needs to get rid of carbon dioxide.  as a chick develops inside the egg the "air sac" gets bigger and bigger, because . . . drum roll & rim shot . . . the developing chick uses up the volume of yolk & white inside the egg creating a 'vacuum' 

this is only important if you are hatching chickens inside your refrigerator - which, temperature wise, is not going to happen comma anyway.

so, back to the question at hand....  the rate of moisture loss from an egg stored under refrigeration is quite small.  sorry, don't remember the data - because - to result in any significant moisture loss required months of home fridge storage and to be perfectly blunt I do not keep eggs for months in my fridge - so it was of 'not really any interest' and I didn't "store" the info in my head.

I also store eggs in their (in my case pulped paper) carton.  the  dozen carton fits / slides quite nicely into the "wine bottle rack" of my fridge.....
all the pulped / EPS / clear plastic "dozen containers" I've seen on the market have these gigantic holes - they are not designed to 'contain / exclude' anything.

so the only way an egg is going to "suck up" bad odors (odor molecules are 50-10,000 times the size of oxygen/nitrogen/carbon dioxide/etc) is for the egg to lose so much moisture those huge odors are driven to 'penetrate' the membrane(s).


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## Mad Cook (Apr 9, 2014)

BenBennetts said:


> Thanks to all of the above who have replied. I have a few follow-on comments, and a question.
> 
> First, I have tried reducing the boil rate of the water once the foam starts to appear but to no avail. Once the albumen is in the water, that’s it. No amount of fiddling with the gas flow works. The only thing to do is curse and throw the eggs and water away and start again.
> 
> ...


I'm a Brit in the UK too and I was always taught that duck eggs should only be eaten hard-boiled or baked in cakes. Something to do with the ducks swimming and feeding in polluted water.

I own two of the Royal Worcester china coddlers which were Christmas presents some years ago. Never used them but they are there if  want them.

I suppose you could try vinegar in the water.. It's used to try and coagulate the egg white when you poach eggs directly in a pan of water. I don't find it works but other people swear by it. It might solve your problem.


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## Mad Cook (Apr 9, 2014)

taxlady said:


> I honestly don't know if eggs can absorb fridge odours. I read it on a egg site. I leave my eggs in the carton, whether it's cardboard or plastic. I use the egg tray in the fridge for hard boiled eggs.


Generations of French cooks have put a truffle in a paper bag with raw eggs in shell in order to flavour the eggs. I've never been given a truffle so can't validate this but Elizabeth David cites it in one of her books and says it works.

I have to say that I rarely store raw eggs in the 'fridge. I don't think it does them any good. Perhaps if you are in an area with vey high summer temps you might need to but that doesn't often apply over here.


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## Mad Cook (Apr 9, 2014)

Mad Cook said:


> I'm a Brit in the UK too and I was always taught that duck eggs should only be eaten hard-boiled or baked in cakes. Something to do with the ducks swimming and feeding in polluted water.


safefood | Storing food safely | Fridges


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