# Airlines May Start Charging for Other Things.



## Corey123 (May 31, 2008)

Did anyone hear about this one?

The airlines are looking to cut out more stuff that used to be for free and are contemplating charging for your first piece of checked baggage!

USAirways is planning to get rid of free snacks in coach class, but it will leave it as is in first and business class.

Delta, United, Northwest and Continental are all planning to raise the cost of airfares and may also start charging passengers for the first piece of checked baggage.

This all stems for the high cost of jet fuel. United is contemplating more pay cuts, job cuts, befefit cuts and outsourcing.

But on the other hand, Southwest is contemplating service to and from Boston.


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## LadyCook61 (May 31, 2008)

I saw it on the news.  It doesn't bother me, I don't go anywhere.


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## Corey123 (May 31, 2008)

Neither do I.

It's not that I'm afraid to fly. I've done it for years. I'm just tired of the nonsense that the gov't forces you to go through at the airports.

And now this farce with the airlines themselves. It's a joke!!


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## GB (May 31, 2008)

What is the joke Corey? And what is the nonsense the govt forces you to go through?


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## Corey123 (May 31, 2008)

GB said:


> What is the joke Corey? And what is the nonsense the gov't forces you to go through?


 


The joke is the stuff everyone is forced to go through on the flights.

How about stuff being taken away that for years, used to be for free, being charged for every little thing, your child being kicked off a plane for saying bye-bye to another plane that he sees leaving, being forced to sit in the bathroom because the flight attendant doesn't like his or her jumpseat, not liking the lousy service on the flight and then being accused of creating a disturbance?

The nonsense is the stuff people are forced to go through at the terminals.

How about your shoes having to be removed, being seached two or more times, being searched at the gate room, being stopped from taking certain liquids on the flights for fear that they may be a liquid nytrogen for a bomb, being treated as though you're a terrorist, when on 09-11, the terrorists walked onto those four planes with weapons as though they were walking onto an elevator?


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## GB (May 31, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> T
> How about your shoes having to be removed, being seached two or more times, being searched at the gate room, being stopped from taking certain liquids on the flights for fear that they may be a liquid nytrogen for a bomb, being treated as though you're a terrorist, when on 09-11, the terrorists walked onto those four planes with weapons as though they were walking onto an elevator?


Do you not remember the shoe bomber??? Is it really that much to ask to remove your shoes to ensure that someone does not have a bomb? That is a joke to you? 

I will happily be searched two or more times to ensure I am safe. I do not consider that a joke at all.


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## Corey123 (May 31, 2008)

Yes, I rember Richard Reid. Who can forget him?

It's just so crazy that every time it is learned that an attempt has been made to bring down or hijack an airliner, that that failed attempt is suspected with innocent people. And the traveling public is forced to put up with even harder scrutinizing.

I realise that precautions must be taken to ward off possible attempts of terrorism, but I think sometimes that they go to the extremes. Like friends always tell me, it's a false sense of security.

Even with all this high-tech stuff in place and all of their dilligent thinking to nab any possible terrorists, top analysts STILL say that it won't stop a terrorist from getting aboard an airliner.

Even the pilots themselves at one time or another have been known to attempt to fly an airliner while intoxicated.


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## expatgirl (Jun 1, 2008)

oh, goodness,,,,, as long as you guys put up with this nonsense, the more the American airlines are going to nickle and dime you.---it's embarrassing....just let them raise the prices and be done with it........


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## Dave Hutchins (Jun 1, 2008)

When flying with the Air Force I felt real lucky to git a potty break let alone a box lunch 
or a bag of peanuts.  If you wanted any thing to eat you had better pack it your self
and I traveled all over the pacific.and most of the west coast from California to far north Alaska.  I think a lot of folks have the gimmy attitude that just becauce they purchased a ticket they were deservings a lot of free give aways.  When the truth of the matter is they purchased a ride from point a to point b.  Think about it when you bought your ticket did it say free snaks or a meal, or free booze, not even in the very fine print did they say this.  I think it is time that every body wake up  there is no such thing as a free lunch


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## Corey123 (Jun 1, 2008)

Pretty soon, if they can do it, they'll find a way to take out the seats and make you fly standing up!


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## Dave Hutchins (Jun 1, 2008)

mayby take out the seats almost but no cigar.  May put in compacters to push us all real close and hopefully real lovie of our situation


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## redkitty (Jun 1, 2008)

I don't care how much security I have to go through to fly.  If they start charging for baggage, so what.  If you want to fly then you pay.  The cost of oil isn't going down and we are going to continue seeing these changes everywhere we look.  You just get on with it, such as life.


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## Corey123 (Jun 1, 2008)

I won't pay for a checked bag because I'm not flying.

At least not until they relax some of that stuff at the terminals.


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## GB (Jun 1, 2008)

That stuff is there for your protection or to keep the airline afloat Corey. If they do not have the security measures in place then you will die in a fireball falling from the sky. If they do not charge more then they will go bankrupt and this country will grind to a standstill. If you think things are bad now then just wait until air traffic stops. You will be begging to pay double if that ever happens.

Airlines are companies Corey. Why do you not think they should charge what they need to keep their company going? Have you seen how much fuel it takes to fly a plane? You think it is expensive to fill your car? Think of that plane.


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## AmericaWestCMH (Jun 1, 2008)

GB said:


> If they do not have the security measures in place then you will die in a fireball falling from the sky.



    Those 'security measures' look good on paper, but the execution is laughable at best.  




> If they do not charge more then they will go bankrupt and this country will grind to a standstill.



These baggage fees aren't about survival, it's beating around the bush to pillage a few extra bucks from leisure travelers who would balk if their $99 ticket to Disneyland went up $10.  

Airlines make their money in the premium cabins and from cargo, cattle class is usually just gravy.  Notice how these baggage fees don't apply to first/business class pax, full-fare economy, or anyone with status in their FF program.


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## Corey123 (Jun 1, 2008)

GB said:


> That stuff is there for your protection or to keep the airline afloat Corey. If they do not have the security measures in place then you will die in a fireball falling from the sky. If they do not charge more then they will go bankrupt and this country will grind to a standstill. If you think things are bad now then just wait until air traffic stops. You will be begging to pay double if that ever happens.
> 
> Airlines are companies Corey. Why do you not think they should charge what they need to keep their company going? Have you seen how much fuel it takes to fly a plane? You think it is expensive to fill your car? Think of that plane.


 


But that's the cost of doing business. 

It was 09-11 that put them in the red, then along came Hurricanes Katrina and Rita that put them in even deeper turmoil (Katrina destroyed some of the oil rigs out at sea). And even today, the American carriers are still having rippling affects. 

I lost my job at United because they wanted to make some cuts. The smaller airlines seem to be surviving, but even some of them bit the dust because of rising fuel costs.

And if at some point in time, I have to fly somewhere, trust me, I'll look for the lowest possible airfare.

But right now, I don't care about flying.

I still haave fying benefits with United Airlines until 2010 but who wants to fly on standby these days with the planes being so packed that it necessitates being stuck at an airport all day?

As far as security goes, I'm not complaing about the metal detectors. They were always there. It's that extra added stuff that's so time-consuming and aggravating! Security practically follows you around the terminal until you get on the plane - and even then, they might just decide to be even more scrutinizing and pull you off the plane just to check you again!

Someday, I'll fly again, but not at the present time.


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## GB (Jun 1, 2008)

While they may not be executing the security measures as well as they could (no argument there), would you rather they got rid of them? Yes they are pretty pitiful when you come right down to it, but it is absolutely better than nothing. Plenty of others scary things have been stopped before they happened because of those laughable measures. You can fly on the airline without the security checks. I will happily wait an extra 2 hours and stand on 20 lines to go through 20 checkpoints for any added measure of security it gets me. i find it a very small price to pay personally.

As for the extra charges, have you been paying attention to fuel prices? Do you think it only applies to cars? People complain that prices are raised and that they are charging where they don't need to, but when the airline only raises prices for a certain segment then people complain that they are just doing it to make money. The other way to look at it is that they are raising prices the minimum amount possible and giving the added benefit to the customers who fly with them the most or who buy the more expensive tickets. 

Have you seen all the airlines declaring bankruptcy? Do you think they would be doing that if they were making the profits you seem to think they are?

Airlines are a business. Why should they not be allowed to make a profit?


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## GB (Jun 1, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> As far as security goes, I'm not complaing about the metal detectors. They were always there. It's that extra added stuff that's so time-consuming and aggravating! Security practically follows you around the terminal until you get on the plane - and even then, they might just decide to be even more scrutinizing and pull you off the plane just to check you again!


And this is bad why? Would you rather they just let everyone on the plane who passes the metal detector? You don't want to be inconvenienced? Would you rather breezy through security and have the terrorists or other crazy people do the same just to save you 30 minutes?


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## expatgirl (Jun 1, 2008)

ok, that is another fallout of downsizing.....cutting back on services......the flight out of Germany was unbelievable a month ago.....this is  international Lufthansa by the way........two attendants for 20 rows of First Class and Business and the ticket prices are about doubled so no complaints  and 2 attendants for the next 1000 rows of Economy.  Unbelievable.....used to be 4 for that number of rows.......not anymore.......this is why I always try and get a seat up front if I don't want to eat my fellow passenger.....as a rule the airlines serve the front first....from what I understand the attendants and pilots and ground support staff of most airlines have had to take salary cuts just to stay employed......how they maintain their composure and still render competent service is beyond me


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## Corey123 (Jun 1, 2008)

GB; 

Being checked at the metal detector should be sufficient enough, I think.

Once you've passed that area, you should be left alone, because there really isn't anything else suspisious that you can take with you onto a plane. 

Anything else that would otherwise be refered to as contraband has been checked there at the security checkpoint. What else dangerous could anyone pick up that is not availible to them in the stores there?

And BTW, terrorists more than likely won't ever try another 09-11-style attack because they know that the gov't is on to any new attempts to hijack a plane in the air.


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## expatgirl (Jun 1, 2008)

terrorists' modes of attack have always been underestimated........they're very smart and will find a way around anything........


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## DramaQueen (Jun 1, 2008)

*I can't believe you people are complaining about the security checks at the airport.  If they had done this a few years ago there would have been no "9/11."    I have no problem with these checks and how much trouble is it to take off your shoes?   I feel safer now than I ever did although I think they security people could be more thorough.  *
*I always fly first class on American Airlines and I didn't have to pay the extra charge for my second bag when I flew  to Michigan last week.   I won't be returning home to Vegas until mid September, but I'll bet I'll be paying the charges for my bags then.   I paid $1200 this time,  a little more than I usually pay, but I like the comfortable seats and the terrific full meals and service in first class.   I don't mind paying the charges for my bags.    I fly often so  it just "goes with the territory.   I have to agree with GB,  there are no more free rides.   Pay the price, get used to being checked through security and move on with your lives.    I was more shocked when I landed, picked up my car  and filled my gas tank  at $4.12 per gallon than I was at the extra baggage charges. *
*  It ain't over yet, there are more up charges to come on a lot more than airline tickets.   Get ready.*


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## Corey123 (Jun 1, 2008)

expatgirl said:


> ok, that is another fallout of downsizing.....cutting back on services......the flight out of Germany was unbelievable a month ago.....this is international Lufthansa by the way........two attendants for 20 rows of First Class and Business and the ticket prices are about doubled so no complaints and 2 attendants for the next 1000 rows of Economy. Unbelievable.....used to be 4 for that number of rows.......not anymore.......this is why I always try and get a seat up front if I don't want to eat my fellow passenger.....as a rule the airlines serve the front first....from what I understand the attendants and pilots and ground support staff of most airlines have had to take salary cuts just to stay employed......how they maintain their composure and still render competent service is beyond me


 


Not trying to doubt you, but according to gov't rules, an airliner isn't supposed to be let go unless the required amount of attendants are on board
to take care of the passengers and in the unlikely event of an emergency.

For example; a United Airlines 757 is not supposed to leave the gate until and unless all six attendants are on the plane. Two for first class and four for coach class.


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## Corey123 (Jun 1, 2008)

DramaQueen said:


> *I can't believe you people are complaining about the security checks at the airport. If they had done this a few years ago there would have been no "9/11." I have no problem with these checks and how much trouble is it to take off your shoes? I feel safer now than I ever did although I think they security people could be more thorough. *
> *I always fly first class on American Airlines and I didn't have to pay the extra charge for my second bag when I flew to Michigan last week. I won't be returning home to Vegas until mid September, but I'll bet I'll be paying the charges for my bags then. I paid $1200 this time, a little more than I usually pay, but I like the comfortable seats and the terrific full meals and service in first class. I don't mind paying the charges for my bags. I fly often so it just "goes with the territory. I have to agree with GB, there are no more free rides. Pay the price, get used to being checked through security and move on with your lives. I was more shocked when I landed, picked up my car and filled my gas tank at $4.12 per gallon than I was at the extra baggage charges. *
> *It ain't over yet, there are more up charges to come on a lot more than airline tickets. Get ready.*


 


You're right. That's exactly why I won't fly now. Haha!!


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## expatgirl (Jun 1, 2008)

the two for coach class must have been lumped with the servers in 1st and business....there were only 2 people serving all of economy........I actually kept looking behind me as I was in the front to see if they would be joined.......but no, it was just the two of them.......and they smiled and carried on with professionalism


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## Corey123 (Jun 1, 2008)

If that was a large airliner, and it sounds like it was, mainly a widebody, then I would hate to imagine what might happen in an emergency!


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## expatgirl (Jun 1, 2008)

these people were incredibly professional.....I've seen a series about training for flight school and you wouldn't believe what they have to master.......I came away with an even deeper respect for airlines.......and most of them have taken pay cuts to just keep their jobs.......I always thank them for their service when I depart......


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## AmericaWestCMH (Jun 1, 2008)

DramaQueen said:


> *I can't believe you people are complaining about the security checks at the airport.  If they had done this a few years ago there would have been no "9/11." *



  Short-blade knives (<4") were not illegal pre-9/11.


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## expatgirl (Jun 1, 2008)

and yes, Corey, that thought did cross my mind........I think that I'm in the minority who still listens to the flight instructions after 20 years and they always look at me, and take note of where the air emergency exits are,  and makes sure that my lifevest is where they say it should be......hey, you never know..........


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## GB (Jun 1, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> GB;
> 
> Being checked at the metal detector should be sufficient enough, I think.
> 
> Once you've passed that area, you should be left alone, because there really isn't anything else suspisious that you can take with you onto a plane.


You have got to be kidding. You think the only dangerous things would be metal? Are you serious? 

What about ceramic knives? What about dangerous liquids? You say you remember Richard Reed, yet you have a problem with them checking your shoes? 

How much effort does it take to take off your shoes? Isn't that extra two seconds worth seeing if someone else is trying to bring another shoe bomb on board. And if you really think that terrorist will not try another 9-11 type attack just because they already did it once then you are crazy. You are the exact type of person they are looking for. Someone who has their guard down saying "oh they won't do that again". These people do not play by any rules. They will do whatever it takes to kill. A little metal detector or the fact that they already did something once before is certainly no deterrent.


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## Corey123 (Jun 1, 2008)

A lot of effort if you have to untie them, then tie them back again - especially boots. Teen boys like to wear baggy pants and boots. No one to date has tried that, and even then, when RR did it, he was in London, I think.

Remember, over there, security checks at the airports at the time, were much more lax than over here. Probably the reason why a lot of planes were hijacked or bombed there and elsewhere overseas over the years.

Haven't you also heard that now, people on board a plane have begun to fight back, beginning with Flight 93, though the plane was crashed into the ground anyway? Same thing with RR. Aside from his shoes being wet, he was subdued by the passengers, restrained and held captive until the plane landed here.

But one has to wonder; "What if his shoes were dry? What if he sucessfully lit the fuse?"

It would be a little bit far-fetched for another possible 09-11-style attack in my book because terrorists usually don't try the same thing twice. At least not yet for an attack of this magnetude. Remember the first WTC bombing and the Oklahoma City? Did you ever hear of that happening again anywhere other than the subway / train bombings in Madrid and London?

Oh. I forgot. Sorry. There ACTUALLY WAS another 09-11-style attack. It occured in Tampa, but is was a small single-engine plane. A teen who said that he worshipped Osama bin Laden, had stolen a plane, took off with it and deliberatly crashed it into a small office tower there, killing himself. But the boy had behavioral problems. 

I'm always cautious at the airports. I was the last time that I've flown to SC. I was when
a friend and myself flew to Las Vegas. We stayed on the plane to avoid being security-checked in the gate room during the layover in Dallas. 

Yes, you're right! Terrorists just don't care who they maim or kill to get what they want done. They also don't even sleep. If they do, then another group is on duty to help devise an evil plan to attack.

But even if they didn't take anything onto the planes, there are tons of stuff that they might have grabbed from the galleys to use as weapons. But I wonder if the air marshals are still on the planes to help protect the passengers.


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## GB (Jun 1, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> A lot of effort if you have to untie them, then tie them back again - especially boots.


Wait let me get this right. Because it takes "a lot more effort to untie and tie your shoes" you would rather we would not be forced to do that? You do realize that if that were the case then another shoe bomber could just stroll right onto the plane unchecked right? Oh, but that is OK because we wouldn't want to have to untie and then retie our shoes one more time in the day. That would just be unreasonable. 




Corey123 said:


> Haven't you also heard that now, people on board a plane have begun to fight back, beginning with Flight 93, though the plane was crashed into the ground anyway? Same thing with RR. Aside from his shoes being wet, he was subdued by the passengers, restrained and held captive until the plane landed here.


 So what you are saying is that since people now fight back we should just rely on that instead of stopping the problem at the airport? Just let them on the plane and when they try to pull something then beat the heck out of them? Not the smartest plan of action in my book.



Corey123 said:


> But one has to wonder; "What if his shoes were dry? What if he sucessfully lit the fuse?"


You don't have to wonder at all. If he were successful then the plane would have been blown up and hundreds would have died a horrible death. Why would you not want to simply take your shoes off to try to prevent that from happening?



Corey123 said:


> It would be a little bit far-fetched for another possible 09-11-style attack in my book because terrorists usually don't try the same thing twice.


 Yeah tell that to all the hundreds of suicide bombers. No you are right they never try the same thing twice. 

It just boggles my mind that you would not want to take a couple of extra moments to help ensure you do not die. Claiming that it is too much effort to take off your shoes is just plain lazy IMO and if you are disabled and unable to physically do it then there are people there who would help you and do it for you. Isn't it worth your life to be inconvenienced just the slightest bit?


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## Adillo303 (Jun 1, 2008)

GB - If I have to fly, then so be it. I have two artificial hips and can't go through a metal detector. What I go through is humiliating. I cannot believe that explosives cannot be detected, or close enough to trigger a search without taking shoes, belts, etc.. off.

If I remember correctly, the 9-11 hijackers took control of the planes by using plastic or nylon weapons that can easily be hidden in body cavities that are not searched normally. 

Enough things get by airline security that it is little but innefective. 

Lest you think that I am just a sourpus, I will submit to any type of security inspections that work, I really don't care how long it takes. What I am subjected to now is humiliating and ineffective. In short, what we are doing, is not working. Yes, take the time for security, but, let's have security that works. BTW did you know that you can buy your way through security with a clear card? The Longest Airport Security Waits -- And How to Skip Them
or Clear Registered Travelers Fly Through Airport Security

Fuel costs - Well, you are right fuel costs are going up and so must everything that used fuel. Counterpoint, I read last week that enough people stayed home over Memorial day that the airlines lost 18 billion. Far as I know it does not cost more to run the plane for coach passengers than others, coach bags od not weigh more than first class bags. How about equitable treatment? 

A good point was made that the extras are being imposed on coach class passengers and firt class and business travelers are status quo. 

I remember "People Express" they treatd an airplane like a bus. Want a sandwitch, buy it, etc.. No first or business class. Low fares and they got you there. they did well till they bought Southwest and tried to go for the frills.


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## GB (Jun 1, 2008)

Adillo303 said:


> If I remember correctly, the 9-11 hijackers took control of the planes by using plastic or nylon weapons that can easily be hidden in body cavities that are not searched normally.


 This is true, but not all attacks have to be identical to the 9-11 attacks. Shouldn't we do everything we can to stop *any* kind of attack?




Adillo303 said:


> What I am subjected to now is humiliating and ineffective.


 There is no excuse for that. They should be treating you with the respect that you deserve. They should be able to do their inspections without humiliating anyone.



Adillo303 said:


> Far as I know it does not cost more to run the plane for coach passengers than others, coach bags od not weigh more than first class bags. How about equitable treatment?


 Why should it be equitable? Are the coach passengers paying the same amount as the first class passengers? No they are not. They are paying substantially more. For that extra price they are paying they get extra perks. That is why they choose to pay extra. Those tickets are available to anyone who would like to buy them. If you don't want to pay the baggage fee then you are more than welcome to buy a first class ticket and pay an extra $500 or so for that "perk".


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## bethzaring (Jun 1, 2008)

I'm flying tomorrow so airlines are on my mind..

Peoples Express, oh my, I haven't thought of that airline in quite a while. I flew it ONCE and swore that no matter how poor I was, I would never fly that airline again. Of course they lost my luggage, for one week. They hired a courier service to deliver my luggage, who called and wanted to meet me half way (one hour drive) i said, I don't think so...can you imagine..

I have no problems with the security systems. I seem to travel on a regular basis and was flying October 5 2001. So I have seen the transformation of the boarding systems. I have seen the patience of the public beginning to wain. The commradery of the post-9/11 is gone to some degree.

We don't need a wake up call on this one folks. I agree that we do not have the most efficient system in place, but we need to cooperate with what we have.


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## Corey123 (Jun 1, 2008)

GB said:


> Wait let me get this right. Because it takes "a lot more effort to untie and tie your shoes" you would rather we would not be forced to do that? You do realize that if that were the case then another shoe bomber could just stroll right onto the plane unchecked right? Oh, but that is OK because we wouldn't want to have to untie and then retie our shoes one more time in the day. That would just be unreasonable.
> 
> 
> So what you are saying is that since people now fight back we should just rely on that instead of stopping the problem at the airport? Just let them on the plane and when they try to pull something then beat the heck out of them? Not the smartest plan of action in my book.
> ...


 


It's not just the shoes. That's probably the least thing.

It's mainly the humiliating process that people are forced to go through to get through security and onto the planes.

Yeah, you're probably going to say that it's better to be safe than sorry, and that's true, but how much is a person supposed to take from the sergents at the airports? When is enough enough?

Don't you also know that they've made some of the people go behind a partition in the gate room and strip down to their underwear, even while their flight is boarding? How sad is that?

Why I just don't fly until and unless I absolutely positively have to.


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## GB (Jun 1, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> It's not just the shoes. That's probably the least thing.
> 
> It's mainly the humiliating process that people are forced to go through to get through security and onto the planes.
> 
> ...



This is the first time you have mentioned being humiliated. All the other posts you were talking about being inconvenienced. Seems like you are changing your stance mid stream.

So just what exactly are these humiliating things you have had to endure?


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## Corey123 (Jun 1, 2008)

Too many. Let's just say that I don't fly because it's too much of a hassle at the airports.


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## GB (Jun 1, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> Too many.


That is a cop out. You don't have to name them all. Just name a few. Pick the top three most humiliating.

Here is my experiences at the airport since 9-11. I take off my shoes as I walk through a metal detector. One out of every 10 or so trips I am pulled aside in a private room while security looks through my carry on. I then board the plane. 

Do I like being searched? Of course not. Do I want them to stop doing it? Not if it catches even one person planning on doing something bad.

There is nothing humiliating about what I have described above. What have you gone through that has been humiliating Corey?


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## Corey123 (Jun 1, 2008)

I'm trying to bow out of this gracefully, but you won't let me;

After waiting in long lines;

Emtying my pockets, taking my shoes off, going through the detector and the alarm still sounds, searched some more, let go, put my shoes back on, return the stuff to my pockets, called over by another TSA worker, asked to empty my pockets again, asked to open the carry-on for strange-looking stuff, cleared for that, put stuff back in pockets, bask to go through the detector again after taking shoes off again, empying pockets again for the third time in a row, and then after all that, my boarding pass gets checked.


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## expatgirl (Jun 1, 2008)

believe you me they can detect explosives or at least powder residue......arriving in  Corpus Christi of all places......think they were having a slow day and bored.......I had some capsules of anitinflammatory medicine for my ongoing bladder condition.......I went thru the most humiliating searches ever...and then I had to go thru the blow your corpuscles apart machine........no explanations whatsover.....in a way can see why....but slowed me down by 20 minutes...........not only should you not pack your liquids on your carryon with liquids out anything powdered as well including medications that are in capsules unless you allow yourselves some boarding time........put your  powdered prescriptive medicines in the required quart-sized along with the liquids.... it's up front and they can see it......instead of the 10 minute search thru your stuff....


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## Corey123 (Jun 1, 2008)

And the bottom line is, if the gov't had done its job and caught more of those terrorists besides the ones in custody now, their deadly plan might have been foiled.

But instead, 3,000 or more innocent lives were lost on that warm sunny but horrible day!

Here's one for the books; 

About a day or so after Hurricane Katrina, some of the military troopers were held up at the airports because they just couldn't get through security fast enough. They ended up missing their flight in an effort to get to Louisianna to help rescue some of the victims there who were stranded by the monster storm.


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## expatgirl (Jun 1, 2008)

yeah, that's sad, Corey...too many lives lost over incompetence in general........


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## GB (Jun 1, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> After waiting in long lines;
> 
> Emtying my pockets, taking my shoes off, going through the detector and the alarm still sounds, searched some more, let go, put my shoes back on, return the stuff to my pockets, called over by another TSA worker, asked to empty my pockets again, asked to open the carry-on for strange-looking stuff, cleared for that, put stuff back in pockets, bask to go through the detector again after taking shoes off again, empying pockets again for the third time in a row, and then after all that, my boarding pass gets checked.


That sounds inconvenient, but none of that sounds humiliating. Unless they made you do all that stuff while you were standing there in your underwear then I see nothing about that which is humiliating.


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## GB (Jun 1, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> And the bottom line is, if the gov't had done there job and caught more of those terrorists besides the ones in custody now, their deadly plan might have been foiled.


I do not understand you Corey. Before you were complaining that it is inconvienient and humiliating to take off your shoes and stand in line and go through metal detectors and now you are saying that if they did their job (which is to check you out, going through metal detectors, checking your shoes, etc.) then none of this would have happened.


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## Adillo303 (Jun 1, 2008)

GB - I don't have a problem with extra perks for extra money. What I have a problem with is IF (and I admin that I have not researched thoroughly, therfore a big IF). The first class and coach tickets are staying status quo, then thn the increased operating costs are not being distributed equitably. In fact the folks that can least afford it are being made ot bear the increased cost. I could feel very comfortable wtih a uniform charge per seat of any class to cover increased costs. More equitable charge per sqft of cabin space. 

Perks - leave them to those that want to / can pay for them. Plane gets in at the same time and I would rather spend my money on things on the ground that I can enjoy more. 

AC

I'm makin this a last post here. I really6 didn't want to get into a fray, I have just has soo manu terrible flights and I don't feel safer, had to say something.


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## expatgirl (Jun 1, 2008)

uh, having a woman pat you down all over you is humiliating even if it's in a cloaked room.......thank goodness it wasn't a Y guy.......and the very fact that you are being patted down in front of thousands of people when you know that you're not carrying any contraband is humiliating......you are their diversion for those 5 minutes...........so it's humiliating to say the least......they are professional and I understand the nature of the job but it's still humiliating to be patted down......


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## GB (Jun 1, 2008)

Adillo303, it is all semantics. Part of the "perks" of first class is not having to pay all those additional charges. But really think about it. The first class passengers have been paying for it all along. How much more is a first class ticked than a coach ticket? They are paying for a heck of a lot more than what the coach people are. The only difference is that it is all rolled into the price of the ticket instead of broken down into ticket, baggage, food, drink, etc.


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## Andy M. (Jun 1, 2008)

I've learned to accommodate the security requirements to make my life easier. 

I don't wear tie shoes.

I carry the absolute minimum of liquids, aerosols and meds in my carry-on and use the plastic bag as required.

I wear a plastic watch instead of one with a metal band as I usually do.

My keys are in the bag that gets x-rayed so I don't have to worry about emptying my pockets.  

Pocket change goes into the carry-on.  

Nothing in my pockets=nothing to empty out.

We check our bags when we fly so we don't have to deal with the liquids restrictions in carry-ons (shampoos, meads, etc).   

Now I have to pay for that privilege and that annoys me.  

The issue is one of perception.  People make their flying purchases based on ticket price.  If an airline raised its ticket price $15, it could lose sales.  If it adds a baggage fee, that will often be overlooked in purchasing decisions.  The same goes for fuel surcharges.  Also, if they keep the other charges separate, they are easier to change unnoticed.


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## Andy M. (Jun 1, 2008)

I just did a quick comparison of first class vs. coach for the flight I usually take to Aruba in January.  RT coach cost $445. while first class on the same plane is $1319.  That's almost three coach tickets!  

I fully expect that price difference to buy me some privileges.


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## expatgirl (Jun 1, 2008)

yep, I as a rule,  Andy, unless it's international....found it's cheaper to overnite in Frankfurt for a hotel than to pay for the extra plane fare.......bladder can't tolerate any longer stay on the long flights.......so an overnight stay really helps me  have some breathing room........do NOT want to be on an airline that's going to nickle and dime you for everything.............when flying for over 8 hours.........


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## Adillo303 (Jun 1, 2008)

Expat - They left my wallet, passport, tickets and cash in a money clip at the end of the belt, unwatched, after I took off my shoes and belt and walked me to a room to pat me down with me holding my pants up so that I was not walking with my pants around my ankle. THEN I got patted down, while my laptop bag went to some security person that pulled and tugged for five minutes and could not figgure how to get the laptop out, I wasn't allowed to do that. They refuse to look at my doctor issued card stating that I have artificial hips. After the pat down comes the wand why my beeping neck chain needs to be separated from my body, I do not know.

Andy M. I can doo all the things thaqt you do and still get the above, or sometimes mercifully a mini flavor of it. My MIL lives in Victoria BC and was in failing health every time I took DW to see her mom this happened.

GB - If the cost of First / Business went up with coach, I agree. If it did not then the cost covers what they WERE getting and the extra fuel is on us in coach.


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## VeraBlue (Jun 1, 2008)

How about everyone flies naked??  

Another extreme measure would be to discontinue all carryons,(and that means purses and wallets, too) and nothing electronic, including keys, phones, ipods, cameras, watches etc. permitted on board.  Make every airline charge the same for checking baggage, so any decision you'd make regarding which airline to use is based on travel records and ticket price, only.   It would speed up the seating process, perhaps saving some of that precious jet fuel.


There was a cartoon in the New York Times this morning.  It pictured a flight attendant instructing the passengers regarding the use of the oxygen masks.  She explained that in the event of a drop in cabin pressure, the masks would deploy.  She continued by saying that for an additional charge of $15, you could have the oxygen turned on.


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## texasgirl (Jun 1, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> There was a cartoon in the New York Times this morning. It pictured a flight attendant instructing the passengers regarding the use of the oxygen masks. She explained that in the event of a drop in cabin pressure, the masks would deploy. She continued by saying that for an additional charge of $15, you could have the oxygen turned on.


 
Now THAT is funny, I don't care who you are!!!LOL

I don't fly, therefore, I'm not affected, but, I think if every seat, no matter what class, is raised, that is fair, but, if it's only one class, no, not going to be good.


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## expatgirl (Jun 1, 2008)

Adillo303 said:


> Expat - They left my wallet, passport, tickets and cash in a money clip at the end of the belt, unwatched, after I took off my shoes and belt and walked me to a room to pat me down with me holding my pants up so that I was not walking with my pants around my ankle. THEN I got patted down, while my laptop bag went to some security person that pulled and tugged for five minutes and could not figgure how to get the laptop out, I wasn't allowed to do that. They refuse to look at my doctor issued card stating that I have artificial hips. After the pat down comes the wand why my beeping neck chain needs to be separated from my body, I do not know.
> 
> Andy M. I can do all the things that you do and still get the above, or sometimes mercifully a mini flavor of it. My MIL lives in Victoria BC and was in failing health every time I took DW to see her mom this happened.
> 
> ...


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## Adillo303 (Jun 1, 2008)

VeraBlue - Would that be disrespecting the cabin?

LOL - That cartoon WAS funny. Thank you - AC


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## expatgirl (Jun 1, 2008)

i hate to say it but that's what it seems like---- what we Americans are down to........accept high fuel costs...they are with us for awhile if not forever.........quit accepting downclass service.......just charge more for the tickets.....it's embarrassing.......


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## Adillo303 (Jun 1, 2008)

Expat = You state we Americans. are tickets cheaper and service better overseas? Jest Askin (Brooklyn expression)


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## Corey123 (Jun 1, 2008)

GB said:


> I do not understand you Corey. Before you were complaining that it is inconvienient and humiliating to take off your shoes and stand in line and go through metal detectors and now you are saying that if they did their job (which is to check you out, going through metal detectors, checking your shoes, etc.) then none of this would have happened.


 


The whole thing is ridiculous. 

And oh yeah; How about being patted down, felt up and your private parts being touched? Tell me THAT isn't humiliating.


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## Corey123 (Jun 1, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> How about everyone flies naked??
> 
> Another extreme measure would be to discontinue all carryons,(and that means purses and wallets, too) and nothing electronic, including keys, phones, ipods, cameras, watches etc. permitted on board. Make every airline charge the same for checking baggage, so any decision you'd make regarding which airline to use is based on travel records and ticket price, only. It would speed up the seating process, perhaps saving some of that precious jet fuel.
> 
> ...


 


Fly naked?

Don't talk too loud. They might hear you and start making people do it!


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## GB (Jun 1, 2008)

Adillo303 said:


> GB - If the cost of First / Business went up with coach, I agree. If it did not then the cost covers what they WERE getting and the extra fuel is on us in coach.


They were already paying for it though. As Andy found out, his Aruba flight for coach was $445 and a first class for the same flight was $1319. That is a difference of $874. It does not cost the airline $874 more dollars to bring a passenger that distance just because they sit in a seat closer to the Captain and get free drinks and food and get to board first. 

I see what you are saying Adillo, but the bottom line is that people pay first class prices to not be treated the same. They pay to be treated better. When it comes right down to it though, they are still paying more than everyone else for the same eventual outcome, getting from point a to point b.


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## GB (Jun 1, 2008)

Corey123 said:
			
		

> And oh yeah; How about being patted down, felt up and your private parts being touched? Tell me THAT isn't humiliating.


If they are feeling up your privates for no reason then you need to bring that up to someone. They can not just do that. 

The airlines have done a very good job of publicizing what is and is not allowed on board and what you can do to avoid the hassles. Just read Andy's post on how he travels. If you listened to what the airlines tell you then you would never have anyone patting you down or doing anything like that at all. It is in your hands to prevent a lot of this.


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## Adillo303 (Jun 1, 2008)

GB - We are having the same discussion over and over and not getting anywhere.

If A cost $100.00 and b Costs $500 and the common cost to give a and b what they are buying goes up and a still pays $500 and b now has to pay $200, then it is disproportionate. I don't think the airlines were accruing all along for increased fuel and security costs, therefore they must be eating the up cost for fitst / business and making it up in coach.

I don't fly unless necessary it is not really significant. 

If anyone wants to pay more for free food (Airline food at that) and free booz without quality booz or atmosphere, let them. You, the seat is more comfy! AND you can say you flew first class.

Please don't be mad at me, I used to fly 35% of my job with 7% of that Overseas. Business or first over 3 hours. Loved it. 9-11 and two hips changed all that for me. Also the business need is not there any more. Airlines can charge whatever they want, they can loose 18Billion over Memorial day for it too.


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## GB (Jun 1, 2008)

The point I am trying to make though Adillo is that this never was an equitable situation to begin with. First class always paid more and got perks because of it. Why should it be different now?

To top it off, it is completely fair because anyone can buy a first class ticket. If you do not want to pay more because the price of gas has gone up then you are free to buy a first class ticket. Not everyone can afford that, but that is not the airlines fault. That is the problem of the consumer. The airline makes those tickets available to all though. It would only be unfair if they reserved those tickets for specific people. They do not do that though. If you have the money then you can buy one of those tickets.


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## Adillo303 (Jun 1, 2008)

I am unable to explain my point to you. You are talking about the price difference between first and coach. I concede first gets more / pays more. When a common cost iincreases and first pays what it used to and coach pays more they coach is absorbing the difference. It is not equitable, life is not fair, never said it had to be. Any seller can ask whtever they want for what they are selling. The buyer chooses to buy or not. Not expecting anyone to make it equitable. The fact stands and speaks for itself. If the cost of first went up an equivalent amount, then there i sno discussion to be had.


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## GB (Jun 1, 2008)

I understand your point. I just do not agree with it.


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## Adillo303 (Jun 1, 2008)

OK - I made a great 10 grain loaf today.


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## expatgirl (Jun 1, 2008)

Adillo303 said:


> Expat = You state we Americans. are tickets cheaper and service better overseas? Jest Askin (Brooklyn expression)


  I can't verify if tickets are cheaper.....they're just ridiculous on American airlines,,,,,,,,charge what the going rate and quit nickle and diming the consumer.........whoever said that the next fee would be the use of toilets is not far off the mark  and they'll make a fortune off of me........


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## expatgirl (Jun 1, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> Fly naked?
> 
> Don't talk too loud. They might hear you and start making people do it!


   oh, please, that's too sad ..........I know what when the person in front of me got the extra legroom I overheard her loudly mention that there was no way that she was going to help passengers off.......wanta bet...if i was going to go down so was she...... under my armpit.......


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## VeraBlue (Jun 2, 2008)

Adillo303 said:


> VeraBlue - Would that be disrespecting the cabin?
> 
> LOL - That cartoon WAS funny. Thank you - AC




Indeed...


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## buckytom (Jun 2, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> The whole thing is ridiculous.
> 
> And oh yeah; How about being patted down, felt up and your private parts being touched?


 
y' talk about extra charges...


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## AmericaWestCMH (Jun 2, 2008)

Adillo303 said:


> The fact stands and speaks for itself. If the cost of first went up an equivalent amount, then there i sno discussion to be had.



How do you know the cost of first _hasn't_ gone up?  Most legacy airlines' fare structures would make your head spin; i.e you'd never know if the overall price went up or down because it's not static.  It's all based on yield management.


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## redkitty (Jun 2, 2008)

Big airlines could levy budget charges | Business | guardian.co.uk


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## Barbara L (Jun 2, 2008)

I know rising fuel costs is one reason for the added costs, but I wonder if there is more to it.  I flew to California in March to visit my family.  While at the airport in Atlanta, on my way there, they announced on CNN that hundreds of planes were being grounded because of something (inaccurate mechanical inspections, I think).  Then, on my way home, also at the Atlanta airport, there was an announcement of hundreds of other flights being grounded.  Several airlines, hundreds (maybe thouands) of airplanes were affected in just a matter of two weeks time, and I know those weren't the only two times this year that this has happened.  

Truthfully, if I were the head of an airline, I would be looking for a way to (as cost efficiently as possible, of course) bring back the public's trust.  I would start raising prices only as a last resort.  If they were to raise the price of every ticket by the same amount (it wouldn't have to be that much if it affected everyone), it would be more fair than raising prices (through things like luggage fees) for only some people.  It would also not be as noticible, since it would be the same for all.

Barbara


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## Alix (Jun 2, 2008)

At the risk of starting up more arguments I am posting anyway. I can always yank this this post if I am too inflammatory. 

Honestly, I read this thread with my mouth hanging open in absolute astonishment. I cannot believe the complaints I am reading. Does anyone here read their ticket? The airline doesn't HAVE to take you anywhere, and you are subject to their rules when you sign the contract (or purchase the ticket). If you don't like their rules, don't fly. If you want to fly, suck it up and let them do their job. I have flown so many times I truly don't believe I could count the number of flights I've been on. And actually, when a lot of this thread was being written...I WAS ON A PLANE! The only folks I have seen having trouble are the ones who ask for it by being belligerent or trying to do something they shouldn't. I just flew an entire ball team of girls and 6 assorted coaches, managers and parents out and had not ONE issue. Why not? Because we followed the rules. No biggie at all. 

Corey, if you don't fly why on earth are you complaining? It doesn't affect you so let it go. Are you in a particularly argumentative mood lately? The last two threads I've read where you posted this much have been rather combative. You haven't been over the line or anything, but it baffles me that in both cases you insist that you are not involved but you continued to argue at length in both threads. 

Adillo, forgive me, I didn't thoroughly read the second last page of posts so I may have missed something. I sympathize about your plight with the artificial joints. Is it not possible for you to get a statement from your physician that you might hand the security attendants to prevent some issues?

And as for price, well again, do your research and decide for yourself what its worth to you to fly instead of getting there via another method. 

I personally feel so blessed that it is possible for me to see things in this world that would never have been possible for me even 100 years ago. The fact that we can so take for granted such an amazing blessing makes me shake my head. How entitled we are. There are people in the world who will only ever see things within reach of their own two feet, or at the most what a 4 legged beastie can carry them to. I just flew 1000 miles, watched my kids play some really excellent softball (4 games) took them to the ocean, let them sail, let them wander a boardwalk and meet people they never otherwise might have met, all in just 3 days. Some of my girls had never been on a plane before, seen the ocean, or been on a boat. They were so joyous I can't even find the words to describe it to you. Definitely worth the paltry monetary price we paid in my opinion. 

I am very sorry if I have upset you folks. I know I come across as being a mom and slapping you on the wrist. I have tried to make my point without being nasty or negative so if I have failed please let me know and I will remove this post. I merely want to point out that in this life, we all have choices and decisions to make. To fly is one such choice and act like we are _entitled_ to something like that bothers me greatly.


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## redkitty (Jun 2, 2008)

Alix, I think your post is spot on and can't see ANY reason why it would be removed.  It was in no way rude, you were stating your opinion just like everyone else.

I think its wonderful those girls got to take that trip!  How exciting for them, especially having never been on a plane or seeing the ocean!


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## Alix (Jun 2, 2008)

Thanks redkitty, I tried very hard not to be rude, I edited myself rather a lot in the hopes that I wouldn't be rude. I just feel it is important for us to realize that some things are in the nature of luxury and blessing and we are not at all entitled to all that we currently have access to. We are as a society very blessed. 

And it was such a joyful trip, thanks! The girls made us see things with fresh eyes. They giggled and whooped and laughed and held hands as the planes took off. Their joy was infectious and they won't soon forget that experience.


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## Adillo303 (Jun 2, 2008)

Akix - I like your Sig line. - AC


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## Barbara L (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm behind you Alix. I love flying. Yes, it is expensive, but you pay for convenience and speed. And the cost isn't always that much compared to other methods. For instance, we are planning to drive to California next month. We will need to pay for gas, oil, food, and hotels. We have the luxury of driving, since we will have the time. Luxury of time isn't generally available for people on business trips, or people with limited time to visit. If we, as a society, are going to live all spread out as we do (as compared to hundreds of years ago when you would most likely die within a few miles of where you were born), we are going to have to pay for it. I love all the "perks" that I have gotten used to when flying (meals and movies the first few times I flew, and snacks and drinks lately), but that's not why I am there. I am on that plane trying to get to a specific destination as quickly as possible. If I have to give something up, I would definitely choose to give up amenities over safety.

Barbara


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## redkitty (Jun 2, 2008)

Barbara L said:


> If I have to give something up, I would definitely choose to give up amenities over safety.
> 
> Barbara



I feel the same way!


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## Chief Longwind Of The North (Jun 2, 2008)

Dave Hutchins said:


> When flying with the Air Force I felt real lucky to git a potty break let alone a box lunch
> or a bag of peanuts. If you wanted any thing to eat you had better pack it your self
> and I traveled all over the pacific.and most of the west coast from California to far north Alaska. I think a lot of folks have the gimmy attitude that just becauce they purchased a ticket they were deservings a lot of free give aways. When the truth of the matter is they purchased a ride from point a to point b. Think about it when you bought your ticket did it say free snaks or a meal, or free booze, not even in the very fine print did they say this. I think it is time that every body wake up there is no such thing as a free lunch


 
Those "free" things you spoke of wern't at all free. you payed for them with the purchase of your ticket. When the operating cost of the airlines was substantially lower compared to the initial fare, airlines competed for your business by offering perks. The higher priced premium, or first class tickets gave you more perks as you were giving more money to the company to pay for those perks.

However, to survive, and still try to hold costs down to a point where the common traveller can afford a ticket, airlines have to cut the perks or go bankrupt. When we expected perks, we desearved them because we paid for them. Now, the price of a plain ticket hasn't gone up as much as operating costs have, and so we are no longer paying for perks, but rather, we are paying for the basic flight from point A to point B.

But I don't really think that you should have to pay for your first bag of luggage. The plane was designed to carry it, and it doesn't cost the airlines much additional fuel to carry it. And, if you are going to pay enough money to fly somewhere, chances are you are going to need a change of clothes, unless you plan on purchasing disposable clothes at your destination.

And I really don't care if they charge extra for meals, as long as they let me bring a sandwhich and drink on myself if I so choose to. For a long flight, it is rediculous to expect a passenger to have to pay the exorbitant cost of airline food if they can't well afford it. And there are people (myself included) who are supposed to maintain a specific timeline for eating in order to control blood sugars.

There are reasonable expectations and we need to be willing to tighten our belts if the airlines are going to remain in the black. But they could easily gouge us as well, an so we need to be dilligent. Remember, if you are treated poorly, you can always boycott.

Seeeeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North


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## Andy M. (Jun 2, 2008)

When we fly, we stop and buy sandwiches at the airport after we go through the security check.  The food is much better.


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## Corey123 (Jun 2, 2008)

I do as well, along with maybe some low-sodium potato chips and a soda.

If it's a morning flight, it would be one or two burittos.


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## pdswife (Jun 2, 2008)

I want to travel.  I'll put up with the rules.
Sure..it's a pain but... it's all worth it in the end.


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## Corey123 (Jun 2, 2008)

Well, it DOES get you there the same day.


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## kitchenelf (Jun 2, 2008)

Alix, I could  you.  Thanks for saying everything I wanted to but just didn't have the time nor patience to type.  

I just wrote this whole big "thing" and simply erased it - I still don't have the patience for this.


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## LEFSElover (Jun 3, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> Did anyone hear about this one?The airlines are looking to cut out more stuff that used to be for free and are contemplating charging for your first piece of checked baggage!USAirways is planning to get rid of free snacks in coach class, but it will leave it as is in first and business class.Delta, United, Northwest and Continental are all planning to raise the cost of airfares and may also start charging passengers for the first piece of checked baggage.


I think the airlines have to do something.  It's not like it used to be.  Flying is now more like bus service, anyone notice when flying that no one dresses up anymore? Back in the day, I'd go to Hawaii several times a year.  I remember seeing people all fancied up and the stews were all fancy too.  Now it's oversized baggage, oversized people and undersized planes, plus gas prices waaay up, what can they do to rescue their business? < but charge for things 'finally', it's been way too long that they've done nothing.  Just my opinion tho.


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## LadyCook61 (Jun 3, 2008)

Last time I flew , it was to NC to be with my sister , whose daughter and grand daughter died in a car crash , back in 2005.  Being deaf, I cannot hear when they announce boarding, so I go to the customer service and ask that someone come to me and let me know the flight is boarding.  I had 3 flights going to NC and 3 flights back, and each time , I asked for help and they let me know the flight was boarding.


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## LEFSElover (Jun 3, 2008)

LadyCook61 said:


> Last time I flew , it was to NC to be with my sister , whose daughter and grand daughter died in a car crash


I am so sorry to hear or see this about your family.  My heart goes out to you and pray that somehow, that you are learning to cope.  So very sorry for this LC61


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## Corey123 (Jun 3, 2008)

LEFSElover said:


> I think the airlines have to do something. It's not like it used to be. Flying is now more like bus service, anyone notice when flying that no one dresses up anymore? Back in the day, I'd go to Hawaii several times a year. I remember seeing people all fancied up and the stews were all fancy too. Now it's oversized baggage, oversized people and undersized planes, plus gas prices waaay up, what can they do to rescue their business? < but charge for things 'finally', it's been way too long that they've done nothing. Just my opinion tho.


 


When I worked for United Airlines and flew using the employee discount, I had to dress up to get on the planes and fly on stand-by.

But the time that I flew to Las Vegas, I didn't dress up because I paid up front for a round trip ticket. I flew Delta then.


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## LadyCook61 (Jun 3, 2008)

LEFSElover said:


> I am so sorry to hear or see this about your family. My heart goes out to you and pray that somehow, that you are learning to cope. So very sorry for this LC61


 thank you LEFSElover... It was and still is devastating, my niece was only 30 and her daughter was 10.


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## DramaQueen (Jun 3, 2008)

*ALIX, your post is right on and I couldn't agree more.   If people don't fly then don't complain because is most cases you really don't have a clue as to what is going on.  *
*I fly first class and have taken over 200 flights in the past 20 years.  First class may be expensive, but I spend about 4 hours on a plane and I want to be as comfortable as possible.   Here is what first class on American Airlines gives me:*
* A seat that is extra wide and extra deep,   (I don't need it but I'm not cramped either).   The  thickly padded seat reclines further,  there is a 9 inch space between me and the passenger next to me so we can both rest our arms, books, drinks, etc. without touching,   I fly bulkhead, aisle so I can stretch my legs completely out in front of me and rest them on the bulkhead wall.  *
*I am called by my name and constantly asked if I would like a drink, coffee, tea, etc.   I get full meals, not a snack and the food is surprisingly good.   The attendants passed around the most delicious chocolate chip cookies that had just been baked along with milk, or whatever we wanted to drink as a mid flight snack.    Meals are served on real china, real silverware, cloth napkins and we are given a hot towel to wash our hands before being served.  *
*We can watch a current movie.   The first class section is very quiet, no loudmouth taking over a conversation for the whole 4 hours.   No children.   There are only 2 seats across so no middle person.  *
*The service, the food and the comfort are terrific and worth the price of the ticket.   I like being pampered and I like being comfortabe and  am willing and able to pay for this service.   If you don't like the extra service and/or can't afford it then fly coach but don't complain because you aren't getting meals,  have to pay extra for luggage and have a fuel surcharge.     I saw CNN news last night where they talked about the airlines losing 2 billion dollars so far because of the exorbitant fuel costs.   Someone has to pay that price and like every other business, it's going to be the consumer.   Delivery services have gone sky high because of the fuel costs.   Merchandise is now higher and so is food because of the fuel charges to the trucks.    Get used to it.   Driving isn't cheap either.   It ain't gonna get any  better.*

*For the poster who has hip problems:  Get a wheelchair.  When you make your reservation ask for one and it will be ready for you when you get to the airport.   Be sure to remind them as you are checking in.  You are wheeled through security immediately without having to wait in line.  You go through the same drill, but you aren't subjected to a long security wait.   The attendant will then push you to the gate that your plane is leaving from.  *


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## buckytom (Jun 3, 2008)

that reminds me of a story a friend's wife tells. she's a flight attendant for delta airlines. 

one of the flights she hates to work most is called the "miracle" flight from west palm beach to nyc.

many of the rich old people in the west palm airport are in wheelchairs and require assistance boarding before everyone else. they are usually very pushy, demanding to be helped into their seat and to have their carry-ons stowed for them. 

by the time they land in laguardia in nyc, a miracle has occurred and those same old people are the first to sprint off the plane, grabbing the carry-ons along the way.


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## Barbara L (Jun 3, 2008)

buckytom said:


> that reminds me of a story a friend's wife tells. she's a flight attendant for delta airlines.
> 
> one of the flights she hates to work most is called the "miracle" flight from west palm beach to nyc.
> 
> ...


That's amazing!  I'm surprised travel agents haven't started promoting that flight more! Maybe they should charge more!

Seriously, the things people will pull never cease to amaze me!

Barbara


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## Adillo303 (Jun 3, 2008)

buckytom said:


> by the time they land in laguardia in nyc, a miracle has occurred and those same old people are the first to sprint off the plane, grabbing the carry-ons along the way.


 

Bucky - Are those the same folks with the expensive cars and the handicapped plates that sprint into the Mall?


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## Corey123 (Jun 3, 2008)

DramaQueen said:


> *ALIX, your post is right on and I couldn't agree more. If people don't fly then don't complain because is most cases you really don't have a clue as to what is going on. *
> *I fly first class and have taken over 200 flights in the past 20 years. First class may be expensive, but I spend about 4 hours on a plane and I want to be as comfortable as possible. Here is what first class on American Airlines gives me:*
> *A seat that is extra wide and extra deep, (I don't need it but I'm not cramped either). The thickly padded seat reclines further, there is a 9 inch space between me and the passenger next to me so we can both rest our arms, books, drinks, etc. without touching, I fly bulkhead, aisle so I can stretch my legs completely out in front of me and rest them on the bulkhead wall. *
> *I am called by my name and constantly asked if I would like a drink, coffee, tea, etc. I get full meals, not a snack and the food is surprisingly good. The attendants passed around the most delicious chocolate chip cookies that had just been baked along with milk, or whatever we wanted to drink as a mid flight snack. Meals are served on real china, real silverware, cloth napkins and we are given a hot towel to wash our hands before being served. *
> ...


 


It's all good.

But not everyone gets to fly first class or business class for that matter, as not everyone can afford it.

I've also flown in first and business when possible. I've flown since 1979, and I more than likely flew just about every other week. I got on a plane almost as if I got onto an elevator or a bus.

Back then, flying was fun. Today, nah!! Just about all of the fun has been taken out of it. I could still get on a plane tomorrow if I chose to, but I have no desire to.

And BTW, I also was treated with royalty flying first and business class and got all that stuff. One of my nephews went with me. It was his first time flying, and he flew in first class with me! He loved and enjoyed it!! He was going with me to Disneyland in Orlando.

I've had my fun flying on United for most of the 16 years that I was an employee with them. I just don't care to fly now.


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## LEFSElover (Jun 3, 2008)

*I think we should all take a poll and say what our favorite airline company is and also which one isn't, or is the worst in our opinion.*


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## Michael in FtW (Jun 3, 2008)

Airlines have never given away anything - you just didn't get an itemized bill. In the beginning, there was only one class - it was first class for everyone - and you paid for it (only the wealthy could afford to fly). Then someone figured out that you could make more money by creating two classes - two seats at 2/3 or 1/2 the cost of first class brought in more money than an empty full-fare seat. As the airlines proved themselves - they could make more and more money from air cargo and carrying mail as well as passengers - so they could further reduce the cost of "coach" fares and begin to compete with the railroad for the comman man. As the Interstate highway system grew, promoting an increase in automobile travel and shipping via truck, it put a bingger pinch on the railroads ... but the number of airports and number of flights increased. These days ... air freight is down (think UPS and FedEx) and government regulations initiated prohibiting certain items from being carried on flights with passengers (after accidents). I could write a book on the interaction of air, rail, auto and social and economic changes in the transportation industry.

However, with the number of lost bags these days - they should only charge you if your bag actually shows up undamaged on the same flight you do!

As for airport security measures ... can you imagine the outcry (at least in the US) about violations of "civil liberties" if the current measures had been implemented in time to prevent 9/11? Our security mneasures have always been reactive - not proactive for that reason. I can remember a security measure from the early 1950's that most people don't remember - or realize. Airport terminals used to have a booth, or machine, to sign up for "flight" insurance. Following WWII and Korea, there were some flights that were blown up - usually there was a passenger who had taken out a large policy at the airport ... sometimes a spouse - the machines were removed from the terminals and insurance companies altered their policies to not include aircraft accidents within 30-90 days from the issuance of the policy. Air Marshalls and metal detectors came about because of hijackers with guns back in the 60's. 

Someone mentioned guys in baggy pants and lace-up boots ... yeah, I hate them if they are in line in front of me. They know the rules these days ... they can be inconvencienced at the "check-point" (and everyone behind them) or elect to wear differnt footwear for the flight. The choice is theirs.

And, yes, I've noticed a scaling down of what passengers wear on flights. I sat next to a guy wearing sweats on a flight about 14-years ago that I would swear came straight from a heavy workout at the gym without benefit of a shower, or clean clothes.


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## Corey123 (Jun 4, 2008)

I just heard on the Today Show this morning, that by next summer, things will be even tougher with the airlines, and that even more stuff will be taken away.

For instance, carriers will start cutting back on flights to certain destinations(Los Vegas is one of them), raise air fares even higher and offer fewer and fewer discount seats. And even THOSE will be astronmically higher because they are saying the fuel costs are driving the cost of flying right through the roof! Delta, Northwest, United, Continental and USAirways are even eliminating more discount fares.

It'll probably be just bare bones flying by then in coach. Even the regional carriers plan to make some cuts!


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## redkitty (Jun 4, 2008)

Well then Corey, it's a good thing you won't be flying anymore!


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## Corey123 (Jun 4, 2008)

Only if it is absolutely positively necessary.


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## Andy M. (Jun 4, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> ...For instance, carriers will start cutting back on flights to certain destinations(Los Vegas is one of them)...


 

Why Las Vegas?  As long as people want to go there, and they certainly do, someone will fly them there.


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## Corey123 (Jun 4, 2008)

Don't know.

Maybe those airlines that plan to do that, don't seem to get many passengers who go there - which doesn't make any sense either.

There's no one I know who doesn't like Las Vegas or wouldn't go there! Who can resist all that fun, glamour, the stars,the entertainment, roller coasters, shows, gambling and night club action?!

I wouldn't miss out on it!


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## LadyCook61 (Jun 4, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> Don't know.
> 
> Maybe those airlines that plan to do that, don't seem to get many passengers who go there - which doesn't make any sense either.
> 
> ...


 
I could care less about Vegas    I'm a homebody.


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## AmericaWestCMH (Jun 4, 2008)

Andy M. said:


> Why Las Vegas?  As long as people want to go there, and they certainly do, someone will fly them there.



Yields are too low since it's mostly leisure travelers (on vacation packages, etc.).  

US Airways is already planning a hefty drawback of their hub there.


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## ronjohn55 (Jun 4, 2008)

AmericaWestCMH said:


> Yields are too low since it's mostly leisure travelers (on vacation packages, etc.).
> 
> US Airways is already planning a hefty drawback of their hub there.



Nail on the head right there. 

It's not about volume on a route, it's about profit on a route. If a route is no longer profitable, expect to see the airlines walk away from them if they can't raise the rates. 

They aren't making these decisions arbitrarily or easily. When you give up market share, it will be very hard to get it back. They're trying to get by in an environment of unprecedented change. It's not just the airlines either. The news here in town mentioned that for the first time in *26 years (!) *the best selling vehicle in the US won't be the Ford F-series. It fell all the way to 5th place as consumers abandon trucks. 

Airlines charging the rates they have (and still mostly do) for the convenience  (even with the cattle car environment of coach) of being able to get from one coast of the US to the other in the same day really *aren't* high enough to support the capacity and costs. 

Now don't get me wrong. I don't want to have to pay more, but if I'm honest about it, I can see quite clearly that I probably should.


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## Corey123 (Jun 4, 2008)

LadyCook61 said:


> I could care less about Vegas  I'm a homebody.


 


Have you ever been there? It IS a lot of fun!

United and AMR announced today that they plan to make some more job cuts.

United is cutting up to 1,100 positions, including management positions. 

In addtion, it plans to park up to 100 planes, mainly the older less fuel-efficient ones, such as the Boeing 737 jetliners and a few 747s.

Also, it will be phasing out its Ted service, and those planes will be reconfigured to include first-class seats.

This all stems, as you know, from rising fuel costs. Both co's are saying that this move is necessary in order to save some money and to stay afloat and to avoid another Chapter 11 relapse.


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## DramaQueen (Jun 4, 2008)

*Corey, I don't think the airiines will be cutting flights to Las Vegas anytime soon.   A plane lands at McCarren Airport every two minutes like clockwork.    Last year we had a record 42 million people come to Vegas, most of them by plane.   It is the second most visited city in the world, first is Paris.  *


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## VeraBlue (Jun 4, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> Don't know.
> 
> Maybe those airlines that plan to do that, don't seem to get many passengers who go there - which doesn't make any sense either.
> 
> ...



Been there....and don't see what all the fuss is about.  In fact, I could honestly say I didn't really like it.  Great food, shows, booze, roller coasters, clubs...I can get right here at home.  The stars??  Who needs em?  And gambling??  I work way too hard for my money to risk it on the odds those places are offering.


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## mudbug (Jun 4, 2008)

but the people watching in Vegas is fabulous, VB.  It's your mall population on steroids.


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## Corey123 (Jun 4, 2008)

DramaQueen said:


> *Corey, I don't think the airiines will be cutting flights to Las Vegas anytime soon. A plane lands at McCarren Airport every two minutes like clockwork. Last year we had a record 42 million people come to Vegas, most of them by plane. It is the second most visited city in the world, first is Paris. *


 


Not right away, but in time.

It was also announced on the news this evening, that one or more of the six big airlines could end up filing for Chapter 11 within the next two years. 

I wonder who will it be.


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## kitchenelf (Jun 4, 2008)




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## LEFSElover (Jun 4, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> There's no one I know who doesn't like Las Vegas or wouldn't go there! Who can resist all that fun, glamour, the stars,the entertainment, roller coasters, shows, gambling and night club action?!I wouldn't miss out on it!


but I'll bet that cute little doggy in your avatar wouldn't mind missing it, just had to go there, he's sooooooo cute!


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## Corey123 (Jun 5, 2008)

Thank you!


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## VeraBlue (Jun 5, 2008)

mudbug said:


> but the people watching in Vegas is fabulous, VB.  It's your mall population on steroids.


Honey, have you ever taken on ride on NJ Transit??  I do get your point, however.   I am, however, unsure what a post about how everyone must love Las Vegas is doing in the middle of an airline thread.

I just got tickets to visit my parents in Jacksonville, FL for September.  $218, round trip from Newark, NJ.  A bargain, as far as I'm concerned.  I don't imagine it will last, though.     It's not just the airlines, it's everything and everyone.  With the exception of the upper crust, everyone is feeling, both emotionally and financially, the strain of the recession.  Complaining will get you noticed for about 15 seconds.  Actually coming up with ways to save, conserve, expedite, etc will get you support.  

I realize griping feels good, but it's momentary.  It's time to be constructive.  Much more will be accomplished.

<~~~stepping off the soapbox now


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## redkitty (Jun 5, 2008)

My dogs airline ticket from Healthrow to San Francisco is £973!!!  Thats almost $2000!!!!  Oh but she is more than worth it and basically we have no choice.  Id rather pay lots of money to fly than sit home and never see the world!


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## LEFSElover (Jun 5, 2008)

VeraBlue said:


> Honey, have you ever taken on ride on NJ Transit??I just got tickets



I could be wrong here but don't think you could make the drive for that amount of money, and both ways?  I'm with you, I think you got a great deal.

Husband and I were on the subway in NYC after a night @ Becco.  He thoroughly enjoyed that by the way.
The largest woman in the history of mankind walked on the subway and proceeded to stand in front of a guy and his woman.  The guys woman, got all upset and started screaming out loud so even Jesus could hear her about 'what that woman was doing with her BFH@$$ in her mans face.  My husband nor I knew what to do.  Should we leave, tell her to shut up, laugh, act like we can't hear?  I just prayed neither of them would get mad at me for doing anything.  I wondered what anything could/would be that may tick them off Yep transit systems are something else.


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## buckytom (Jun 5, 2008)

you look at the floor or at the ads, or as if you can see something 1,000 yards away. same as everyone else.


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## Corey123 (Jun 5, 2008)

Continental has joined the parade.

They just announced that they will cut 3,000 jobs as well as get rid of older less-fuel-efficient planes.

A little boy almost died on an AA flight! The attendants passed out peanuts on the flight and the boy smelled them. He almost died. According to his mom, if he even SMELLS peanuts or peanut butter, he'll develop an allergic reaction.


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## Alix (Jun 5, 2008)

Still reading this thread. I can't believe there is still complaining going on. I must be a masochist. Oh wait...its my* job *to read all the threads here to make sure no one is posting naughty things. I am feeling a bit tortured here. Can we stop complaining now and move on? Pretty please with sugar on it?


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## Andy M. (Jun 5, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> ...A little boy almost died on an AA flight! The attendants passed out peanuts on the flight and the boy smelled them. He almost died. According to his mom, if he even SMELLS peanuts or peanut butter, he'll develop an allergic reaction.


 

Are you suggesting that's the airline's fault?


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## buckytom (Jun 5, 2008)

well, let me tell you about the last time that i flied.

i couldn't believe it. the flight was delayed, the security kept waving things at me and looking in my bags and shoes, i had a cramped seat, there were no overhead bins left, the flight was bumpy, the food was lousy and full of allergy inducing ingredients, the flight attendants were rude, AND they kept hitting into my shoulder ever time they walked by.

but the worst part was that i didn't get any peanuts.

NO PEANUTS!!!!

i am* entitled* to my peanuts.

so on my next vacation, we'll be driving.

delayed in traffic, my wife waving the directions in my face and complaining about her shoes, in a cramped car seat, with far too much luggage packed all around, on bumpy roads, sucking in car fumes and roadside weed pollens, with rude toll takers and gas station attendants, with my son kicking the back of my seat every once in a while.

but al least i'll bring peanuts.


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## ronjohn55 (Jun 5, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> A little boy almost died on an AA flight! The attendants passed out peanuts on the flight and the boy smelled them. He almost died. According to his mom, if he even SMELLS peanuts or peanut butter, he'll develop an allergic reaction.



Not even remotely close to the article I read...
LI woman sues over in-flight peanuts -- Newsday.com



> "For the entire flight . . . plaintiff remained fearful, tense and anxious as she watched over her son's every breath and body twitch, concerned that at any moment her son could have an anaphylactic reaction while imprisoned 35,000 feet into the air," read the lawsuit filed Monday in state Supreme Court in Manhattan.
> 
> The lawsuit claims Ryahn's civil rights were violated and that the airline inflicted severe emotional distress on his mother. It cites the Air Carrier Access Act which protects disabled passengers.


He was fine. She was freaked out and now feels the airlines owe her millions of dollars.


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## kitchenelf (Jun 5, 2008)

This thread could be about the fiber optics industry, the hosiery industry, the furniture industry, etc., etc.  It's called a recession.  It's not really even "news", it's simply facts.  

Corey, the peanut issue is a parental issue, not an airline issue.  This could have been prevented!!!

EDITED TO SAY:  Yes, thanks for the link.


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## Andy M. (Jun 5, 2008)

ronjohn55 said:


> Not even remotely close to the article I read...
> LI woman sues over in-flight peanuts -- Newsday.com
> 
> He was fine. She was freaked out and now feels the airlines owe her millions of dollars.


 

Thanks for the real story, Ronjohn.  Apparantly, things can get twisted in the retelling.


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## redkitty (Jun 5, 2008)

Man......I really gotta stop reading this thread.


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## Corey123 (Jun 5, 2008)

Andy M. said:


> Are you suggesting that's the airline's fault?


 


Tough to say, but I'm not laying fault on AA, the child or the mom. 

I DID read once that because of alergies and the possibility that a passenger COULD get sick and dies from such an illness, that peanuts were to be banned from all flights.

This goes back about several years.


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## sattie (Jun 5, 2008)

redkitty said:


> Man......I really gotta stop reading this thread.


 
Yea... one of the reasons I have refrained from posting on this till now.  I think it is best to keep my opinioins on this to myself.


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## GB (Jun 5, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> Tough to say


Why is it tough to say?  It seems completely cut and dry to me. The airline has a posted policy that says there may be peanut products on the plane? How could anyone then claim it is the airlines fault???


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## Corey123 (Jun 5, 2008)

Because it is not known for sure how this rule is or works. 

I only know that most airlines or at least some of them had switched over to pretzels to avoid people getting sick and them or their families filing any lawasuits.

I also never knew that a person can get sick from just smelling peanuts. The boy didn't literally open a bag of peanuts and put his nose in the bag. His mom would not have let him do that. I think he just happened to catch wind of the smell as they were being eaten by the other passengers.


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## Alix (Jun 5, 2008)

Corey, go check Ronjohn's link. The boy never had a reaction.


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## Corey123 (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm not doubting anyone here.

This didn't come from me. It's what I heard on the news. The news media just seems to love to screw up stuff and make things seem worst than they really are.


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## Alix (Jun 5, 2008)

Corey, my husband is a reporter and it offends me when you make blanket comments like that. The news media is not to blame for misinterpretations. Please go read Ronjohn's link so that you may have the *correct* information.


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## Corey123 (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm not blaming your husband or trying to offend him in any way.

This is NOT a blanket comment. 

Why are some of you always accusing me of that? I can't help what I hear on the news. And I read the link. 

The TV news report had said it just the way that I posted it. And the media DOES get stuff wrong at times. It does not mean that your husband does. I'm sure that he's a good reporter. But again, you can't help what you hear on the news.

People at times get their wires crossed. But it doesn't mean that i'm singling out anyone here nor am I singling out friends or relatives of members here.


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## GB (Jun 5, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> Because it is not known for sure how this rule is or works.


Yes it is Corey. What makes you say that it is not known? It is printed in black and white on their policies. It is plain as day. I am not sure how it could be any more clear.


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## GB (Jun 5, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> The news media just seems to love to screw up stuff and make things seem worst than they really are.





Corey123 said:


> This is NOT a blanket comment.
> 
> Why are some of you always accusing me of that?


the reason that you are constantly being accused of making blanket statements is because you continue to make blanket statements. Your one above is a prime example. You are making a blanket statement about "The news media". You did not say that joe brown from ABC news seems to love to screw up. You included all of "The news media". That is the definition of a blanket statement.


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## Corey123 (Jun 5, 2008)

1. Oh, please. This is absurd. When I say something, it does NOT mean that I'm making a blanket statemkent nor am I talking about anyone here or their friends or relatives. Why would I talk about people I don't know?

2. Because I haven't seen it yet. 

Not that I don't care to, or that I think it's not there. Maybe it's on their website, but since I don't fly, I never bothered to look for it.

3. If I DID decide to fly somewhere and had a child who would be traveling with me, then yes, I'd go look. Especially if I thought or knew that he can't have peanuts. But I'd also find out from his parents to be sure.

I'm going to stop posting here.


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## Alix (Jun 5, 2008)

Corey, it was a blanket statement as GB has already told you. I am certainly allowed to tell you that your comment offends me as my husband is a member of the "new media" that you claim "love to screw things up". If it upsets you to be told something like that perhaps you should choose your words more carefully in future. As GB suggests, you could be more specific about the particular media that "love to screw things up".

In reading this thread, opinions fly all over the map about many different topics. Can we please get back to the original topic or cease and desist. (My personal preference would be for us to cease and desist)


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## GB (Jun 5, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> Because I haven't seen it yet.
> 
> Not that I don't care to, or that I think it's not there. Maybe it's on their website, but since I don't fly, I never bothered to look for it.
> 
> If I DID decide to fly somewhere and had a child who would be traveling with me, then yes, I'd go look. Especially if I thought or knew that he can't have peanuts. But I'd also find out from his parents to be sure.


just because *you* have not looked for it does not mean that it does not exist. You said it is not known for sure how this works, but that is just plain wrong. Once again, read RonJohns link. It spells it out for anyone who cares to read it. The fact that you did not read it does not mean that it is not known how it works.


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## Corey123 (Jun 5, 2008)

I never said that it doesn't exist. Why won't you guys stop twisting things around?

I'm not saying that it's not there. I'm just saying that I haven't looked. Goodbye.


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## Alix (Jun 5, 2008)

Go look at the link Corey. I'll even make it easy. Look here for the post and links.


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## GB (Jun 5, 2008)

You said 





> Because it is not known for sure how this rule is or works.


 which is what i was responding to Corey.  These were your words, not mine.


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## buckytom (Jun 5, 2008)

corey, you have a future in the news media.

and ken doesn't "love" to screw things up.


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## Alix (Jun 5, 2008)

Buckytom, you are going to have to go read your karma comments ASAP


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## Corey123 (Jun 5, 2008)

GB said:


> You said which is what i was responding to Corey. These were your words, not mine.


 


Because I haven't looked. I'm sure that it's there. I just haven't looked.


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## GB (Jun 5, 2008)

And like I said Corey, it does not matter if you looked or not. 

The question that was posed to you was "was it the airlines fault that they boy supposedly got sick because of peanuts on the flight?"

You said "it is tough to know because it is not known for sure how this rule is or works".

That is not true. It IS known how the rule works. It is posted on their site. Just because you have not looked at it does not mean that it is not known how it works. 

Corey we keep going around in circles, but really it does not matter because that is not the topic of this thread. The topic is "Airlines may start charging for other things" so that is what we need to discuss here.


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## Andy M. (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm confused.  Does this mean I have to pay for a bag of peanuts on my next flight or not.


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## Katie H (Jun 5, 2008)

Whoa!  I'm dizzy.  Haven't looked at this thread in a bit.  Looks like it's taken a flight to Mars.  Wonder what the airlines will charge for "other things" on a trip to Mars.


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## babetoo (Jun 5, 2008)

Corey123 said:


> Because I haven't looked. I'm sure that it's there. I just haven't looked.


 

corey, 

i have always wondered what your signature means. please enlighten me.

babe


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## Corey123 (Jun 5, 2008)

GB said:


> And like I said Corey, it does not matter if you looked or not.
> 
> The question that was posed to you was "was it the airlines fault that they boy supposedly got sick because of peanuts on the flight?"
> 
> ...


 


I never said that it WASN'T there - I said I don't know.

I just threw that little part in there, since the thread is about airlines possibly charging for for other things and snacks or those little things that were complimentary are included in what the passengers might have to pay for.

But I didn't think or expect things in this thread to become all discombobulated like this. I'll only talk about what things the airlines may be charging for.

I'm done with this now.


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