# Clean Eating- Guardian Newspaper Article



## di reston (Aug 12, 2017)

Hi everyone! Thought you might be interested in following article. What are YOUR thoughts on all this?

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/aug/11/why-we-fell-for-clean-eating?


di reston


Enough is never as good as a feast     Oscar Wilde


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## GotGarlic (Aug 12, 2017)

di reston said:


> Hi everyone! Thought you might be interested in following article. What are YOUR thoughts on all this?
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/aug/11/why-we-fell-for-clean-eating?


I saw this a few days ago. 

"She was a “gluten-free, sugar-free, oil-free, grain-free, legume-free, plant-based raw vegan”." 

"But the “clean” diet that Younger was selling as the route to health was making its creator sick. Far from being super-healthy, she was suffering from a serious eating disorder: orthorexia, an obsession with consuming only foods that are pure and perfect. Younger’s raw vegan diet had caused her periods to stop and given her skin an orange tinge from all the sweet potato and carrots she consumed (the only carbohydrates she permitted herself)."

She wasn't just suffering from orthorexia; she was suffering from malnutrition. No oil or butter or other fat means the body cannot absorb vitamins A, D, E or K. The body also needs carbohydrates to survive. Her periods stopped because her eating habits could not sustain her own body, much less that of a possible child. 

This is why I have always hated the term "clean eating." It implies that any other way of eating is dirty and wrong and can lead to this kind of extremism, or guilt that you're not living like this.


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## PrincessFiona60 (Aug 12, 2017)

GotGarlic said:


> I saw this a few days ago.
> 
> "She was a “gluten-free, sugar-free, oil-free, grain-free, legume-free, plant-based raw vegan”."
> 
> ...



All of which works on your calcium intake, putting the calcium into your bones instead of your arteries.

To me "Clean Eating" means minimally processed foods.  I avoid sugar and carbs, because of my diabetes.  My downfall these days is rye bread.


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## Andy M. (Aug 12, 2017)

Many folks today are so in need of a simple fix that will make all their problems go away, they'll grab onto any fad that comes along in hopes of a solution.


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## CraigC (Aug 12, 2017)

One look at one of these raw eating, walking cadavers should be all you need to see.


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## skilletlicker (Aug 12, 2017)

Andy M. said:


> Many folks today are so in need of a simple fix that will make all their problems go away, they'll grab onto any fad that comes along in hopes of a solution.



Yup. You hear it all the time. "All the experts are wrong. I have the real truth. Any thing different is fake." And around such assertions, cults are created. MyFitnessPal.com is a useful tool but it is also a place where fanatical adherents to every crackpot "nutritional" fad congregate and proselytize. And no amount of logic or evidence will dissuade the believers because it becomes a matter of faith and tribal allegiance.


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## Steve Kroll (Aug 12, 2017)

Human beings are amazingly adaptable, when you think about it. Despite being around in our present form for tens of thousands of years, we have many different views on what exactly constitutes the perfect diet. Some say veganism is best. Others stress low carb. Or low fat. Or mostly fish. Others say you need a balance. We seem to be able to survive (although not necessarily thrive) on many different diets. 

But the funny thing is - and this seems to be a uniquely human trait - is that every one of us who believes we're eating "healthy" is convinced that our diet is absolutely the best, and that everyone else is wrong.

Last night I was in Hy-Vee and saw a couple at the checkout. They looked to be somewhere in their fifties, or maybe early sixties. In their cart they had two cases of Twinkies, a case of Little Debbies, a case of Mountain Dew, and three or four different types of chips/snack foods. Not a veggie in sight. They were obviously alive, but didn't look particularly healthy. In my estimation, their diet isn't the best. But I could be wrong about that.

Myself, I eat a lot like PF: low carb, higher fat, moderate protein. Every so often I might sneak a little bite of potato here and there. As a diabetic, this way of eating seems to work for keeping my blood sugar down and my metabolism functioning normally. Would I advocate my diet being for everyone? Absolutely not.


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## Andy M. (Aug 12, 2017)

Steve Kroll said:


> Human beings are amazingly adaptable, when you think about it. Despite being around in our present form for tens of thousands of years, we have many different views on what exactly constitutes the perfect diet. Some say veganism is best. Others stress low carb. Or low fat. Or mostly fish. Others say you need a balance. We seem to be able to survive (although not necessarily thrive) on many different diets.
> 
> But the funny thing is - and this seems to be a uniquely human trait - is that every one of us who believes we're eating "healthy" is convinced that our diet is absolutely the best, and that everyone else is wrong...



It sounds like you're talking about religions rather than diets.  You could substitute the word religion for diet and the general intent of the statement would be right on.


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## CWS4322 (Aug 12, 2017)

I believe in eating real food and I prefer to eat food that is in season where I live. That includes fats, veggies, fruits, dairy, and meat. I don't eat processed foods. I also don't eat bread, pasta, white rice. One of the things I have noticed, is that I don't have cravings and I have no inclination to eat between meals.Because I eat my biggest meal in the morning, I am not hungry in the evening. That's when I eat steamed or raw veggies, fruit, maybe some cottage cheese. Our grandparents used to consume most of their calories in the a.m. and afternoon. It works for me. The only time I eat in the evening, is when I am making walleye from LOW.

I have been eating this way for about 7 years. Do I feel deprived? No.


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## skilletlicker (Aug 12, 2017)

Steve Kroll said:


> ...
> Last night I was in Hy-Vee and saw a couple at the checkout. They looked to be somewhere in their fifties, or maybe early sixties. In their cart they had two cases of Twinkies, a case of Little Debbies, a case of Mountain Dew, and three or four different types of chips/snack foods. Not a veggie in sight. They were obviously alive, but didn't look particularly healthy. In my estimation, their diet isn't the best. But I could be wrong about that.
> ....


Your assumption that what you saw in their cart truly represents their diet could be wrong or not. But if that *is* their diet, the quality of nutrition is terrible and that is not a matter of opinion or an issue on which there are two sides worthy of consideration.

The ability to tell black from white from shades of gray is not always easy. But sometimes it is. Facts are real things. So are wisdom and discernment.


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## Steve Kroll (Aug 12, 2017)

Andy M. said:


> It sounds like you're talking about religions rather than diets.  You could substitute the word religion for diet and the general intent of the statement would be right on.



I think one could make the same claim about any number of things, including politics or preferred car models. It usually boils down to "I'm right and everyone else is wrong."

By the way, I'm not very religious, but I do like to eat. So maybe food is my religion.


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## CWS4322 (Aug 12, 2017)

Steve Kroll said:


> I think one could make the same claim about any number of things, including politics or preferred car models. It usually boils down to "I'm right and everyone else is wrong."
> 
> By the way, I'm not very religious, but I do like to eat. So maybe food is my religion.


I like to cook, not that fond of eating!


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## Andy M. (Aug 12, 2017)

Steve Kroll said:


> ...By the way, I'm not very religious, but I do like to eat. So maybe food is my religion.




Then going to a restaurant is like going to church. After all, there's bread and wine and you leave money there.


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## GotGarlic (Aug 12, 2017)

Steve Kroll said:


> I think one could make the same claim about any number of things, including politics or preferred car models. It usually boils down to "I'm right and everyone else is wrong."
> 
> By the way, I'm not very religious, but I do like to eat. So maybe food is my religion. [emoji38]


You're missing the influence of external pressure in this case, which does make it like a religion. People are shamed and made to feel guilty for not doing it right. When she started telling her readers that she had an eating disorder, she was attacked. It wasn't just about her and her choices.


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## GotGarlic (Aug 12, 2017)

Steve Kroll said:


> Human beings are amazingly adaptable, when you think about it. Despite being around in our present form for tens of thousands of years, we have many different views on what exactly constitutes the perfect diet. Some say veganism is best. Others stress low carb. Or low fat. Or mostly fish. Others say you need a balance. We seem to be able to survive (although not necessarily thrive) on many different diets.
> 
> But the funny thing is - and this seems to be a uniquely human trait - is that every one of us who believes we're eating "healthy" is convinced that our diet is absolutely the best, and that everyone else is wrong.



Yes, humans are omnivores. But it's not as complicated as people make it out to be. 

http://www.huffpost.com/us/entry/4472930


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## Cooking Goddess (Aug 12, 2017)

Cute bulldog, GG, but what was the article?


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## GotGarlic (Aug 12, 2017)

Cooking Goddess said:


> Cute bulldog, GG, but what was the article?


Oops. Sorry. 

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4472930


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## tenspeed (Aug 12, 2017)

I ignore the magic diet articles.  I eat everything, but also try to keep things in balance.  I try to avoid desserts, fatty red meat, deep fried foods, and other things that are generally recognized as not particularly healthy.  Otherwise, some of everything is fine, including carbs.  I get a fair bit of exercise - a few thousand miles per year on the bike, plus some other activities.  Oh, and wine is a grocery.


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## Just Cooking (Aug 12, 2017)

well hell... I'm doomed....  but happy....


Ross


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## skilletlicker (Aug 12, 2017)

GotGarlic said:


> Yes, humans are omnivores. But it's not as complicated as people make it out to be.
> 
> http://www.huffpost.com/us/entry/4472930



Thanks for the article GG. I think the crux of it is in this paragraph:


> *To get a grip on the truth about diet and health, it requires an objective review of a vast literature.* I know, because I have been obligated to do it. To substantiate a preselected gripe, however, such as “grains are the enemy,” is vastly easier. There is no need to search the literature comprehensively and deal with what you find. You need only decide what you believe in advance, and select out the studies that support it — however few they may be. It doesn’t take many scientific papers to make an argument seem fully substantiated and even erudite. But *what you will not know unless you search the literature comprehensively yourself is how often the six papers convincingly cited are at odds with 6,000 papers that are not. *Sorry, folks, but pseudo-erudition in support of dietary nonsense really is that easy — and while the authors are the richer, the rest of us are the poorer, fatter and sicker for it.


I certainly have neither the training nor the time, to acquire "an objective review of a vast literature." Nor to "search the literature comprehensively" myself to find out "how often the six papers convincing cited are at odds with 6,000 papers that are not." So like most of us, I must rely on a consensus judgment of the vast majority of professionals who have devoted years of study and experience to acquiring the expertise to make those judgments.

So when I hear somebody, in any field, say that the experts or elites have all got it wrong and I alone have the experience, revelation or common sense to see the truth which, believe me, I'm not sharing with you because of all the money I'm making off it, I cover my wallet and head for the exit.


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## GotGarlic (Aug 12, 2017)

skilletlicker said:


> Thanks for the article GG. I think the crux of it is in this paragraph:
> 
> I certainly have neither the training nor the time, to acquire "an objective review of a vast literature." Nor to "search the literature comprehensively" myself to find out "how often the six papers convincing cited are at odds with 6,000 papers that are not." So like most of us, I must rely on a consensus judgment of the vast majority of professionals who have devoted years of study and experience to acquiring the expertise to make those judgments.
> 
> So when I hear somebody, in any field, say that the experts or elites have all got it wrong and I alone have the experience, revelation or common sense to see the truth which, believe me, I'm not sharing with you because of all the money I'm making off it, I cover my wallet and head for the exit.


Ditto on all counts! Which is also why I laugh and laugh when people say, "I did my own research!" or "Do your own research!"  Because neither I nor they have a research lab or the education needed to read and understand dozens of scientific papers written by people with PhD or MD or DO (or more than one) after their names with 10 or more years of schooling in their specialty.


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## Steve Kroll (Aug 12, 2017)

skilletlicker said:


> Thanks for the article GG. I think the crux of it is in this paragraph:
> 
> I certainly have neither the training nor the time, to acquire "an objective review of a vast literature." Nor to "search the literature comprehensively" myself to find out "how often the six papers convincing cited are at odds with 6,000 papers that are not." So like most of us, I must rely on a consensus judgment of the vast majority of professionals who have devoted years of study and experience to acquiring the expertise to make those judgments.



Hogwash. If there's one thing consistent about so-called "experts," it's that they're consistently wrong. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ua-WVg1SsA


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## GotGarlic (Aug 12, 2017)

Steve Kroll said:


> Hogwash. If there's one thing consistent about so-called "experts," it's that they're consistently wrong.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ua-WVg1SsA


A lot of that problem is exaggeration and misreporting of scientific research by the media. People often take popular articles much more seriously than they deserve, and then the food production industry capitalizes on that and distorts it further. 

Science moves slowly and incrementally for the most part. I think the takeaway from the article I posted is that what to do really has not changed all that much: eat a lot of fruits and vegetables, lean meats and dairy; few highly processed foods; in reasonable portions. Get enough sleep and exercise. For medical reasons, some may need to vary this a little, or some may choose to for various reasons, but it works pretty well for most people.


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## Steve Kroll (Aug 12, 2017)

GotGarlic said:


> Science moves slowly and incrementally for the most part. I think the takeaway from the article I posted is that what to do really has not changed all that much: eat a lot of fruits and vegetables, lean meats and dairy; few highly processed foods; in reasonable portions. Get enough sleep and exercise. *For medical reasons, some may need to vary this a little*, but it works pretty well for most people.



Or some may need to vary it a lot. I ate the way you describe for most of my adult life, but still ended up diabetic, overweight, and lethargic. These days, I eat all the "wrong" foods (according to the experts)... no fruits or grains whatsoever, limited vegetables, and moderate amounts of fatty dairy and meat. The first thing that happened is that I lost almost 100 pounds, gained energy I didn't know I had, and got my blood sugar and cholesterol under control. Even my doctor was completely taken aback, and told me to keep up whatever it was I was doing.

And yes, I also get plenty of exercise, fresh air, and sleep.

One needs to keep an open mind, and not necessarily poo-poo what works for some of us.


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## Andy M. (Aug 12, 2017)

Steve Kroll said:


> Hogwash. If there's one thing consistent about so-called "experts," it's that they're consistently wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ua-WVg1SsA





This video is why I don't listen to what people say about what I should and shouldn't eat. I eat what I like in moderate amounts and I feel great. Maybe I won't feel great as long as I could, but I feel great right now.


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## Addie (Aug 12, 2017)

When you show me your PH.D in nutrition and other health related subjects, then maybe I will pay attention to what you say. 

I would no more to have the nerve to tell anyone how to live their life or even what foods to eat. I know what works for me. I haven't a clue to what works for others. Nor is it my business. 

Bloggers? They are folks who have too much time on their hands. There is only one blog I follow. I have read a couple of others but didn't keep up with them. They became very repetitive. Nor have I read any book on what to eat by an untrained or non-educated person on the subject. I prefer to read the latest and greatest on diabetes. Articles my son Poo sends to me that is not readily available to the public. But that doesn't mean I am going to post any advice from those articles here. It is not my place to tell you what you should do about your health problems. And I certainly do not need anyone to share their information with me. I have a health team and my son who keeps a close watch on my health, to do that. He stays in touch with my doctor regarding my health. And I think I am sure in saying that most of you folks have your own health team.  

I worked for three years at Wyeth Pharmaceutical looking at patient reports regarding their well being, or not, for new drugs. That doesn't qualify me to dispense any information that I learned about a lot of those drugs that made it to market.


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## GotGarlic (Aug 12, 2017)

Steve Kroll said:


> Or some may need to vary it a lot. I ate the way you describe for most of my adult life, but still ended up diabetic, overweight, and lethargic. These days, I eat all the "wrong" foods (according to the experts)... no fruits or grains whatsoever, limited vegetables, and moderate amounts of fatty dairy and meat. The first thing that happened is that I lost almost 100 pounds, gained energy I didn't know I had, and got my blood sugar and cholesterol under control. Even my doctor was completely taken aback, and told me to keep up whatever it was I was doing.
> 
> And yes, I also get plenty of exercise, fresh air, and sleep.
> 
> One needs to keep an open mind, and not necessarily poo-poo what works for some of us.



Yes, I know. You've been talking about it for two years (or so it seems). I'm not poo poo-ing what you're doing; I'm glad it's working for you. I'm saying that for most people, it's not that complicated to figure out what or how much to eat. Don't take it so personally.


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## GotGarlic (Aug 12, 2017)

Addie said:


> When you show me your PH.D in nutrition and other health related subjects, then maybe I will pay attention to what you say.
> 
> I would no more to have the nerve to tell anyone how to live their life or even what foods to eat. I know what works for me. I haven't a clue to what works for others. Nor is it my business.
> 
> Bloggers? They are folks who have too much time on their hands. There is only one blog I follow. I have read a couple of others but didn't keep up with them...



You clearly did not read the article. Blogging is the least of it.


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## Addie (Aug 12, 2017)

GotGarlic said:


> You clearly did not read the article. Blogging is the least of it.



I did read the WHOLE article. I wasn't impressed with the subject matter in the least. I don't need other folks telling what is fit to eat and what isn't.


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## GotGarlic (Aug 12, 2017)

Addie said:


> I did read the WHOLE article. I wasn't impressed with the subject matter in the least. I don't need other folks telling what is fit to eat and what isn't.


It's not about you. It's about a real cultural phenomenon that is causing serious problems for a lot of people. It's not surprising that doesn't "impress" you.


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## buckytom (Aug 12, 2017)

So, if it's laughable about doing one's own research, and it's not about an individual, and it's not that complicated, but again, it's a cultural phenomenon, who should dictate what we should eat?

Do we need a dictator?


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## Andy M. (Aug 12, 2017)

buckytom said:


> So, if it's laughable about doing one's own research, and it's not about an individual, and it's not that complicated, but again, it's a cultural phenomenon, who should dictate what we should eat?
> 
> 
> 
> Do we need a dictator?




Great idea!  I recommend a pot smoking leader from France. He would be the French fried 'tater.


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## buckytom (Aug 12, 2017)

Lol, he could just be called Le Frites Etre Obei.


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## skilletlicker (Aug 13, 2017)

> Absurd | Define Absurd at Dictionary.com
> Absurd | Define Absurd at Dictionary.com
> 1. Absurd, ridiculous, preposterous all mean inconsistent with reason or common sense. Absurd means utterly opposed to truth or reason: an absurd claim. Ridiculous implies that something is fit only to be laughed at, perhaps contemptuously: a ridiculous.
> ‎Absurdly · ‎Ad absurdum · ‎Absurdist · ‎Absurd, theater of the





Steve Kroll said:


> Hogwash. If there's one thing consistent about so-called "experts," it's that they're consistently wrong.


Steve, I wish you realized the absurdity of that statement. The creators of the intentionally absurd comedic video that you use to support it would be amused.


			
				Addie said:
			
		

> I would no more to have the nerve to tell anyone how to live their life or even what foods to eat. I know what works for me. I haven't a clue to what works for others. Nor is it my business.


Addie, is someone in DC telling you what to eat? I'm certainly not. The author of the Huffington Post article isn't either.


			
				buckytom said:
			
		

> So, if it's laughable about doing one's own research, and it's not about an individual, and it's not that complicated, but again, it's a cultural phenomenon, who should dictate what we should eat?


Each of us makes our own choices, of course. Just beware. There are people and institutions who do not give a whit about our welfare, that are, for profit, prestige, or power, trying to influence our decisions. Deceptive scientific and academic references are often used. If that fails, attacks on science and rational thought are employed.


			
				buckytom said:
			
		

> Do we need a dictator?


Much can be said about that question, Tom. But I am forbidden by the forum ban on politics from discussing it.


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## GotGarlic (Aug 13, 2017)

skilletlicker said:


> Steve, I wish you realized the absurdity of that statement. The creators of the intentionally absurd comedic video that you use to support it would be amused.
> 
> Addie, is someone in DC telling you what to eat? I'm certainly not. The author of the Huffington Post article isn't either.
> 
> ...



+1..


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## Steve Kroll (Aug 13, 2017)

skilletlicker said:


> Steve, I wish you realized the absurdity of that statement. The creators of the intentionally absurd comedic video that you use to support it would be amused.


Dude, I'm not sure what's in those skillets you're lickin', but you might want to ease up a bit.


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