Which Spoiled First, the Chicken or the Egg?

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qlopp

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I thought a cheeky title was in order, hopefully it isn't inappropriate for a serious subject.

I've searched quite a bit on the topic of storing refrigerated raw chicken and raw egg (chicken pieces floating in batter/brine containing raw egg, in a tightly lidded container). I do not have any food sanitation certificate nor do I work professionally in a kitchen. I just cook for large groups on occasion, only making things I have worked on and tested out. I plan to make a large quantity of southern style fried chicken at my next gathering to make use of my new Cajun Fryer.

The easiest plan would seem to be brining raw chicken pieces in a mixture of buttermilk, egg, and spices, with maybe a bit of corn starch to thicken it up. I was hoping to make this at least one day in advance. The chicken would come out of it's store package straight from the fridge (no washing) and right into the brine. The eggs would be cracked and mixed in straight out of the fridge as well. Then the covered containers would be placed in the fridge at 35°F.

The day of the gathering I would pull the sealed containers out to warm up a bit so as to not shock the oil temp too much, then dredge and drop the chicken pieces into peanut oil, trying to maintain ~310° average temp after initial temp drop, targeting about 170°F IT. Leftover brine and dredge would be discarded. New disposable pans would be used for each subsequent dredging of new sealed container(s) of chicken/brine. I would have the flour and spice dredge mix weighed out and bagged separately for each batch to increase speed.

I don't see a health/safety issue with this plan, however *one* Reddit culinary thread I came across featured someone who was ADAMANT about the egg and chicken in this scenario being a cause for safety concern. People clashed in the comments and he never relented. That put doubt in my head about this.

I'd appreciate your thoughts, especially any links for continued learning on the subject.
 
I don't see a problem with making the brine and adding the chicken the night before. I wouldn't be comfortable beyond that. No doubt someone her with more specific knowledge and experience will respond as well.
 
I also don't have a certificate in food safety. I think it sounds like a safe plan, but there could be gotchas that I haven't thought of. There are several regulars who do have training in food safety. As Andy wrote, one of them will hopefully respond.
 
I found the thread with the warning about raw eggs and chicken together; it has to do specifically with marinating.


Open that Reddit thread, then search (control + F) for the phrase "Let's start by dispelling the notion" to find poster CallMeParagon's explanation of why marinated meat and raw egg shouldn't be held together for a long time. I don't know if what he's saying is true, but it sounds plausible.
 
I'm not sure what the raw egg in your brine would add, and my gut feeling about it is that I wouldn't do it, especially to serve guests.

CD
 
No food safety certificate either.
I don't really see a problem as everything is deep fried at the end and kept cool till that time.
But neither do I see any use of eggs in the brine. I understand the buttermilk for tenderising, but eggs?
Why don't you brine without eggs and make a seperate bowl of beaten eggs.
Take out chicken, go through eggs, then through spice mixture then fry?
 
I wouldn’t waste the eggs.

Keep it simple with buttermilk, salt & pepper, cayenne, etc… and dredge in seasoned flour prior to frying.

You only need enough of the buttermilk mixture to moisten the chicken and really don’t need to let it marinate more than a half hour to an hour prior to frying.

I would be most concerned about taking on such a task for a large group if I didn’t have some practical experience with the recipe or the process.

Good luck!
 
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I agree with most in that adding egg to the brine serves no purpose. You really don't need to brine that long with buttermilk. Most recipes call for about 30 minutes.
They can brine while you are setting up, heating up your fryer.
Nor would I take them out of the fridge too far in advance. You will just have to time your pieces from fridge to dredge to fryer. Don't know how big your fryer is, the size of your pieces of chicken - you will still have to be careful to bring back up to temp with each batch.
 
What Aunt Bea said. The egg serves no purpose in your marinade. Classic southern fried chicken is buttermilk and seasonings, no egg. Take it from generations of southern cooks.
 
I wouldn’t waste the eggs.

Keep it simple with buttermilk, salt & pepper, cayenne, etc… and dredge in seasoned flour prior to frying.

You only need enough of the buttermilk mixture to moisten the chicken and really don’t need to let it marinate more than a half hour to an hour prior to frying.

I would be most concerned about taking on such a task for a large group if I didn’t have some practical experience with the recipe or the process.

Good luck!

I believe qlopp wants to do some meal prep the night before. The buttermilk brine can go that long, but I wouldn't go farther.

I agree, though, that no eggs should be needed, and would worry me for that long of a soaking.

CD
 
I thought a cheeky title was in order, hopefully it isn't inappropriate for a serious subject.

I've searched quite a bit on the topic of storing refrigerated raw chicken and raw egg (chicken pieces floating in batter/brine containing raw egg, in a tightly lidded container). I do not have any food sanitation certificate nor do I work professionally in a kitchen. I just cook for large groups on occasion, only making things I have worked on and tested out. I plan to make a large quantity of southern style fried chicken at my next gathering to make use of my new Cajun Fryer.

The easiest plan would seem to be brining raw chicken pieces in a mixture of buttermilk, egg, and spices, with maybe a bit of corn starch to thicken it up. I was hoping to make this at least one day in advance. The chicken would come out of it's store package straight from the fridge (no washing) and right into the brine. The eggs would be cracked and mixed in straight out of the fridge as well. Then the covered containers would be placed in the fridge at 35°F.

The day of the gathering I would pull the sealed containers out to warm up a bit so as to not shock the oil temp too much, then dredge and drop the chicken pieces into peanut oil, trying to maintain ~310° average temp after initial temp drop, targeting about 170°F IT. Leftover brine and dredge would be discarded. New disposable pans would be used for each subsequent dredging of new sealed container(s) of chicken/brine. I would have the flour and spice dredge mix weighed out and bagged separately for each batch to increase speed.

I don't see a health/safety issue with this plan, however *one* Reddit culinary thread I came across featured someone who was ADAMANT about the egg and chicken in this scenario being a cause for safety concern. People clashed in the comments and he never relented. That put doubt in my head about this.

I'd appreciate your thoughts, especially any links for continued learning on the subject.
Now, the raw eggs in the marinade are still a potential danger zone. But if you're careful and do it right, no need to stress. Just keep an eye on that fridge temp and use fresh eggs, and you're golden.
 
jennyema, thank you for your reply and focus on my safety concern. Funny, I had reviewed that Cornell "safe chicken" article before posting my question. Of particular interest is the mention of pasteurized eggs. I'll look into that.

I'm not trying to recreate the Cornell chicken as it is grilled aka barbequed; rather I wish to deep fry a fairly conventional preparation of fried chicken, adding an egg to the brine/dip for (theoretically) some extra adhesion to the dredge. I've demoed the recipe 3 times as of yesterday (never brining as long as my initial post suggested), and will try without egg now that I have the cooking technique down. Maybe egg won't help the coating, and maybe it'll even taste worse than sans egg. We will see.
 
I would be most concerned about taking on such a task for a large group if I didn’t have some practical experience with the recipe or the process.

Good luck!
I mean, I'm asking about the safety aspect and practicing technique months before the event, so...
 
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No food safety certificate either.
I don't really see a problem as everything is deep fried at the end and kept cool till that time.
The concern is that pathogens *could* grow to a dangerous level by holding the combined raw items too long. Thoroughly cooking safe/fresh food kills the relatively small amount of pathogens such that the dead remains are insignificant in food safety terms. When pathogens have been allowed to grow and infect the food long enough, yes they are mostly killed by a thorough cooking, but the difference is that they have been left to propagate too long and have excreted toxic waste; the large quantity of pathogen remains along with their waste is what thorough cooking can't detoxify.
 
Brine your chicken, which means to soak it in salt/sugar solution for 12 hours, no egg!

But prepare your egg wash etc. right before cooking Then prepare it as normally for frying.

Don’t soak your chicken in egg. Yuck!
 
I hear what you say but that won't happen within the time frame you mentioned and keeping it cold
(Response to @qlopp above, not to Jenny)
 
The concern is that pathogens *could* grow to a dangerous level by holding the combined raw items too long. Thoroughly cooking safe/fresh food kills the relatively small amount of pathogens such that the dead remains are insignificant in food safety terms. When pathogens have been allowed to grow and infect the food long enough, yes they are mostly killed by a thorough cooking, but the difference is that they have been left to propagate too long and have excreted toxic waste; the large quantity of pathogen remains along with their waste is what thorough cooking can't detoxify.
You have raised a good point, in that bacteria can throw off spores that are heat resistant. So cooking something doesn’t make it safe.

We need to always remember that!

So just soak the chicken in salt water, sugar and buttermilk. Add the egg right before you cook. There’s no reason to add it before.
 
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