New Range?

[Roll_Bones]

We have been working on the house last few months.
Installed all new floors and painted. Ordered a brand new fridge my wife wanted (old one was 17 years old) and we need a new range as well.

I have wanted gas forever but we have no natural gas available. I checked into propane. Not one propane gas company called me back and the one that did told me the gas was over $4 a gallon!

So here are my observations/questions:

1) Buy my own propane tank and shop propane pricing in my area. I can install the gas line myself and have it inspected.
Renting the tank does not allow price shopping and there is a yearly rental fee as well.

2) Buy an electric range like we have now. These new ranges look great, cost a fortune and have a ceramic/glass surface instead of coil burners.
I shake restaurant style pans on these burners and toss foods. I rarely use a spoon when I have a frying pan out.
So I would have to change my cooking style that has taken years to perfect to appease this new ceramic/glass top range.

How tough are these ceramic/glass tops and are they suited for my style of cooking? This is my main concern.
Anyone buy a range like this and was sorry they did? Happy they did? And how does the ceramic/glass top hold up to a demanding cook?

Thanks John

 

[WhateverYouWant]

I have had both a propane and ceramic cooktop since building my house back in 2001. Here propane ranges from $2.50-$3.50 a gallon depending on time of year (it was aout 90 cents when I decided to go with propane appliances back in 2001).

I actually prefer the electric over the gas. More even heat distribution, and much more consistent lower temperatures for keeping things warm (plus no nitrogen dioxide and carbon monoxide). I also like the bridge element for griddles and grill pans.

As for longevity, I use single edge razor blades and ceramabryte polish to clean burnt on stuff, and haven't noticed any scratching over the years. It hasn't been an issue shaking stainless steel and aluminum pans on the cook top... cast iron is a different story though, and if I have to shake one of those I lift it off the cooktop.

With all that said, If I were to buy an electric today I would go with induction. It has all of the advantages mentioned above, as well as higher efficiency and significantly less residual heat building up on the surface. There is a bit of a learning curve dealing with hot burners that don't cool down that fast, which is solved with induction.

I acquired a single burner induction unit earlier this year and use it most of the time for omelettes, crepes, sauces... hell, I can even temper chocolate and make hollandaise with it without a double boiler.

 

[Roll_Bones]

Thanks Scott.
Yes, it seems the high gas price was a reflection of renting a propane tank. I'm sure I could get a better price if I were to shop it around. How big of a propane tank did you get or did you rent the tank?

Yes, I see the advantages of electric and it really looks like electric is the very most economical. Lots of other good things about electric ranges I have looked at. Nice perks and much nicer than what we have.
I am looking at an electric double oven but afraid my holiday turkey will not fit? Seems the turkey is all that will fit in my existing oven with very little room to spare.

If I were to go to induction, I would loose all my cookware. I use stainless and aluminum. So I will not give up on lifetime cookware. I have to much invested. I have checked until I found out about needing magnetic cookware.
My main concern is the loss of the ability to rock in the kitchen. Meaning shaking, flipping and turning without utensils.

Thanks Again

 

[Andy M.]

Why don't you just buy an electric range with coil burners?

 

[larry_stewart]

I had gast in my first place, and I did love it, but every where I lived after that only had electric options, so I basically developed all my cooking growth and skills over the years with electric. When we redid our kitchen about 10 years back, I didnt know much about induction, so went with the ceramic electric top ( which was a step up from the coil, as it was in such bad condition, Id literally get shocked depending on which burners I used). It did take a few months to get acclimated to the ceramic top over the coils. My wife was thrilled cause it made clean up a lot easier, especially if something boiled over. Had to make sure wee had a lock feature, cause the cats ( on occasion) make there way up there, and could have easily turned it on just by walking on the controls, as they are all touch sensitive. The locks work great, but on occasion, they do put the timer on ( its not affected by he lock) and in the middle of the night you'll hear it go off ( hasn't happened in awhile ).

Fast forward 10 years, my stove top crapped out , of course just after the 10 year warranty was up. It was an Electrolux and worked rather well. At this point I had to make up my mind as to sticking with something similar to what I had or going induction. Ive never cooked on induction before, so I bought a single induction burner to try a few things on just to see if it was something Id consider. After cooking on the electric for so long, and developing whatever skills I had, along with have few pots that worked with the induction, I did see some benefits ( water boiled a lot quicker, among other things), I went ceramic top electric again, as Im used to it and just felt more comfortable with it. I still have the single induction burner that I pull out from time to time. I must say, my biggest disappointment is the lack of heat to keep a wok going. I feel like my new cooktop just doesn't keep as hot as my previous. Even the previous one,didnt hat the wok as id like it to have, but this one seems to have been a step down. I was also limited with something that had thee same foot print as my previous cook top, as I didnt want to start messing around with the granite counter top. The new one also seems to take longer to get a pot of water up to boil than the older one. Maybe Im just impatient, a few extra minutes shouldn't aggravate me as much as it does. And, I did manage to scratch the surface when sliding a hot pot off too the side ( like 2 months after we got it). That pissed me off a bit, but at least I got that behind me. Kinda like when I got my first kayak and used to carry it from my car to the water, as not to scratch the bottom. Once I got that first scratch, now I just drag it without a worry. Im too old to be carrying it anyway.

 

[WhateverYouWant]

How big of a propane tank did you get or did you rent the tank?

My tank is 500 gallons, and they charge me $65/yr rental. It was last filled on 6/17... 149.3 gallons was $401 including fuel recovery fees.

If I were to go to induction, I would loose all my cookware. I use stainless and aluminum. So I will not give up on lifetime cookware.

My stainless is triPly (aluminum sandwiched between two layers of 18/10 stainless) and works great on induction. I also have a couple on non-stick aluminum pans that have ferrous inserts on the bottom that also work well. Pure aluminum of course is a no go. And there is some stainless that won't work either... are you sure yours won't?

I still have the single induction burner that I pull out from time to time. I must say, my biggest disappointment is the lack of heat to keep a wok going.

Hi Larry! One thing to note is the single induction burner (if like mine) is a 110V device that has literally less than 25% of the cooking power of installed 220V units.

 

[GotGarlic]

Just wanted to say, I've been cooking with gas since the mid-80s and have never had an issue with carbon monoxide or the other thing mentioned [emoji6]

I will never cook with electric again if I can help it (although I probably will have to when/if we visit my FIL). I've cooked on my in-laws' electric glass top stove and I hate it. It does have a double oven and the turkey does fit in the lower oven. I found it annoying to have to bend over that much to get things in and out of it, though.

 

[WhateverYouWant]

I've been cooking with gas since the mid-80s and have never had an issue with carbon monoxide or the other thing mentioned

https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp.122-a27

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/documents/indoor-air-pollution-cooking

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envi...ove-cooking-indoor-air-pollution-health-risks

https://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2018...r-home-advises-indoor-air-quality-researcher/

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/pierre...es-pollute-indoor-and-outdoor-air-study-shows

https://www.psr.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/health-effects-from-gas-stove-pollution.pdf

https://www.abe.iastate.edu/extensi...e-poisoning-gas-fired-kitchen-ranges-aen-205/

https://www.aivc.org/sites/default/files/airbase_13262_0.pdf

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/05/7450...e-planet-banning-gas-is-the-next-climate-push

 

[pepperhead212]

John, Years ago, I got a 1500 watt induction burner, mainly for outside or tabletop use, but I quickly realized how powerful that thing was, yet wasting so little heat! That thing would boil almost a gallon of water (my daily iced tea!) in 14 minutes - the 20,000 btu/hr burners on my range will boil it a little faster, but only with the flames shooting around the sides of the pot - slower when turned down to just a little flame showing. I started using it as my main burner, as soon as my AC goes on, and it gets put away, come fall. I've said that if I had to move somewhere with only electric, I'd probably get an induction range, but there are a coupe of drawbacks that come to mind: as with any electric burner, a wok is not the ideal pan for cooking with (and I have 5 of them!), even when flat bottomed, so if you also use woks, electric is not the best. And something that you mentioned that you do, which I also do, is tossing the foods, using the skillets. This is a major problem with induction, though maybe research will find some that don't do this immediately - as soon as the pan is lifted from the burner, it starts beeping, which is very annoying, but it will also turn off quickly, depending on how soon the pan is returned. Different brands behave differently, I'm sure, so maybe researching would find reviews of some that would be better, in this regard.

Then, of course, there's the question of how much of your cookware is induction capable. And CI does scratch, though smoothing the bottom helps some.

I can't tell you anything about cost of propane, or how much is used on average, but if that's an economically viable option, I'd go for that. Like GG, I have also never had a problem with CO, even with all 6 burners going, and one of the ovens! Fortunately, that almost never happens.

 

[GotGarlic]

Scott, I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I said I've never had a problem with it myself. There have also been fires caused by self-cleaning ovens, but it's rare and not something I worry about.

From one of those articles: "However, these pollutants can be easily addressed with good kitchen ventilation, which is especially important if you live in a small home."

I live in a 2,100-square-foot home built in 1910. My kitchen is 15x18 feet with two windows that are not airtight. I think I'll be okay.

 

[dragnlaw]

Scott, I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I said I've never had a problem with it myself. There have also been fires caused by self-cleaning ovens, but it's rare and not something I worry about.

From one of those articles: "However, these pollutants can be easily addressed with good kitchen ventilation, which is especially important if you live in a small home."

I live in a 2,100-square-foot home built in 1910. My kitchen is 15x18 feet with two windows that are not airtight. I think I'll be okay.

Ditto GG

Scott that was a heck of a lot of reading you supplied. Afraid I just read a few titles. (a synopsis would have been nice seeing as you did all that work! )

I will say that here in Quebec we are not allowed to install a gas range unless there is a functioning direct to outside air vent installed first. I have a monoxide alarm, I heat the house with a propane fireplce and I live in a 200+ yr old house, hardly air tight.
I cannot imagine, same as GG, cooking on a different type of stove.

Edit: plus our Propane is perfumed for the sole reason of detection. I will assume yours is too?

 

[WhateverYouWant]

Scott, I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I said I've never had a problem with it myself. There have also been fires caused by self-cleaning ovens, but it's rare and not something I worry about.

From one of those articles: "However, these pollutants can be easily addressed with good kitchen ventilation, which is especially important if you live in a small home."

I live in a 2,100-square-foot home built in 1910. My kitchen is 15x18 feet with two windows that are not airtight. I think I'll be okay.

I am not going to argue with you. If you have a great hood that efficiently vents solely to the outside, and you use it every time you burn fossil fuels on your stovetop (even when boiling water), and your gas oven is installed to vent only to the outside (almost none are), you are good. If not, you aren't. But if you are willing to accept the consequences, who am I to argue otherwise.

I will say that here in Quebec we are not allowed to install a gas range unless there is a functioning direct to outside air vent installed first. I have a monoxide alarm, I heat the house with a propane fireplce and I live in a 200+ yr old house, hardly air tight.
Edit: plus our Propane is perfumed for the sole reason of detection. I will assume yours is too?

Scented propane is designed to indicate a propane leak, not the by-products of burning fossil fuels in your living space. Again, if you have a high CFM hood vented to the outside, and use it every time you use the stovetop, you may be good. But is your gas oven also solely venting to the outdoors? (most are not), and even if they are, there are still environmental issues you either care about or not.

BTW, your propane fireplace (if it is like mine) exchanges no combustion products with the inside air, unlike when cooking. It all goes out the chimney, with only a heat exchanger to radiate the heat indoors.

Again, you either care about this or you do not. A CO sensor will never indicate levels that are above most health standards, only levels that put you at severe, immediate risk.

 

[GotGarlic]

I am not going to argue with you. If you have a great hood that efficiently vents solely to the outside, and you use it every time you burn fossil fuels on your stovetop (even when boiling water), and your gas oven is installed to vent only to the outside (almost none are), you are good. If not, you aren't. But if you are willing to accept the consequences, who am I to argue otherwise.

I thought we were having a discussion, which is the purpose of the site [emoji2]

My hood vents to the sunroom next to the kitchen - an unheated, uninsulated room with two walls of single-pane windows that are even more leaky than the ones in the house. I also have a ceiling fan in the kitchen (and the adjacent office and dining room) and we are in a temperate climate where we can have the windows open for at least half of the year. I appreciate the information you shared, but really - I think I'll be okay.

 

[Andy M.]

Scott, while your facts may be correct, their consequences may be exaggerated.

I grew up in homes with gas ranges as did many thousands of homes across the world. As an adult I have had gas ranges almost exclusively. Not aware of any issues. I have to believe if gas ranges were a real issue, there would have been some mention of it in the last 100 years.

 

[GotGarlic]

I thought we were having a discussion, which is the purpose of the site [emoji2]

My hood vents to the sunroom next to the kitchen - an unheated, uninsulated room with two walls of single-pane windows that are even more leaky than the ones in the house. I also have a ceiling fan in the kitchen (and the adjacent office and dining room) and we are in a temperate climate where we can have the windows open for at least half of the year. I appreciate the information you shared, but really - I think I'll be okay.

I just bumped a thread we had a few years ago with pictures of our kitchens. I hope newer members will add theirs. Here's mine: https://www.discusscooking.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1478238

 

[taxlady]

ScottinPollock, you completely ignored the fact that Dragnlaw mentioned that she has a CO detector. If she has a problem with the stove producing CO, it would tell her.

 

[taxlady]

ScottinPollock, you completely ignored that Dragnlaw has a CO detector. That would let her know if there was a problem with CO.

 

[pepperhead212]

Some of the better CO detectors have a digital display, and some alarms can be set to a lower level, instead of going off at 30 ppm, which is the usual.

This reminds me - I have to replace mine soon, when the 5 year mark gets here in October.

 

[WhateverYouWant]

I grew up in homes with gas ranges as did many thousands of homes across the world. As an adult I have had gas ranges almost exclusively. Not aware of any issues. I have to believe if gas ranges were a real issue, there would have been some mention of it in the last 100 years.

We all (at least in my case) grew up with formaldehyde in the walls, lead in plumbing and paint, asbestos in heating systems, lack of airbags in cars (even seat belts in my early years), unburned hydrocarbons in the garage due to unsealed vehicle fuel systems, and countless other toxic materials in construction and other household materials... so yeah, toxic compounds from burning natural gas/propane indoors was most likely at the bottom of the list. Heck, when it starts to snow I think I'll just wheel my gas grill indoors for the Winter. (c;

And it has been mentioned (check out the articles I linked to). Think about it... California's (and many other states) building codes require all appliances (furnace, dryer, water heater, etc.) that burn fossil fuels to be direct vented to the outside... except cooktops and ovens. Why, since these consume similar amounts of fuel as a dryer? It's a really good question, and many counties in California are starting to change their tune on this.

ScottinPollock, you completely ignored the fact that Dragnlaw mentioned that she has a CO detector. If she has a problem with the stove producing CO, it would tell her.

I did, mostly because the lion share of them are insufficient for sensitive people. Here is what Kidde (one of the leading makers of CO detectors) says about their units:

An Iowa State University publication stated as litte as 15-20 ppm could impair performance in time discrimination, decrease absolute exercise time, shorten time to angina response, and decrement vigilance, not to mention the effects of the nitrous oxides and formaldehyde that are also released. But you won't hear from the detectors unless you're at 2 to 3 times that level for 10 hours. And yes, a good quality outside vented hood should probably mitigate these issues, if you use it. Many don't, and most don't when just the oven is on.

And of course there are environmental impacts as well. Heck, I live in an area where I can heat my home with wood, and dispose of yard waste by burning it. I choose not to do so. And yes, if I could afford a new Tesla, I'd have one. (c;

So yes... this is clearly about what risks your willing to assume. Heck, I enjoy my whiskey. And I will continue to enjoy it no matter what some research says the health risks might be. But dismissing said risk simply because you can't recount some form of health consequence directly related to it seems kind of irresponsible to me, especially when discussing it with others that may have kids and/or other sensitive individuals around. And while the human body is immensely tolerant of all the toxic crap we expose it to on a daily basis, it does all eventually add up.

So that's my novelette on the issue, which I clearly feel is real. But since I prefer electric ovens, and don't mind the ceramic cooktop (although I wish it were induction), it was not a consideration for me.

 

[Roll_Bones]

Why don't you just buy an electric range with coil burners?

I looked at conventional coil burners first. I looked at the pros and cons of coil vs ceramic.
First was all new coil burners have a high temp shut off. It seems this was a problem for many reviewers.
Once the high limit opens the circuit to the coil, it must cool before it will come back on. Similar to a hair dryer that gets to hot.
There is no way I could deal with a burner shutting down in the middle of a, for example wok stir fry.
Also as has always been the clean up and it also seems coil burners come with few features if any.
Most had no self clean function and are the most basic of stove. Had the temp limit function not been present, the chances of buying a new one would be very high.

Scott.
Your gas pricing seems most reasonable and having a tank for just the range might also be reasonable?
Since I have had very bad possible, new customer, help from gas companies, I really have no clue yet as to what I would actually need.
Figures and I hope not a reflection of being a full time customer?

I have no intention of replacing some or most of my cookware. So it looks like induction is out. I will test my cookware with a magnet and see exactly what I would loose. My Calphalon aluminum cookware is fantastic and at 25 year old, it is still performing and I expect it to be around long after I am gone? I also have a couple pure bright aluminum skillets like they use in Waffle House. I actually think they are the exact same?

pepperhead.
If I find propane to be a reasonable choice, I will go for it. Like I said, I can run the gas line and I could have a tank set and the pad prepared.
But you can see from just reading this post, the electric range will just be plugged into the receptacle and it would be done.
The ease of the electric installation is a very big plus for me.

dragnlaw.
I have a 7" vent that exits the roof. So no issue there.

I have little concern regarding the safety of gas. It is present in many homes and does not appear to be unsafe in relation to fires.
I do see the possibility of CM leaks causing hidden danger. So the warning is well taken.

One note: Our brand new french door fridge arrived yesterday and it is a thing of beauty.
Only one hiccup. It does not fit the opening in our cabinet layout. Costco is going to have it picked up and now we have to start over shopping for the range and now the fridge again!