Help With Making Hard Rolls

[Kaneohegirlinaz]

I was reading an article and came across this recipe:

https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/crusty-european-style-hard-rolls-recipe

My Husband has been talking about "Hard Rolls" for years and I have no clue as to what he's talking about. He's from the Philadelphia area, American-Italian and loves his bread, like a nice CheeseSteak on an Amoroso Roll.

Having spent the majority of my life in Hawaii, baked goods there are more towards the Asian palette as well the French-Influenced Vietnamese style of baking.

So I showed him this website and asked him to read the description at the top of the recipe and look at the photo ... is this it? Like a Kaiser Roll shape, but crusty on the outside and light and fluffy on the inside?

YES!!!



So, here's a question for the group:

a) have you ever made a roll like this or even this recipe?
b) could I stop after step #3, refrigerate; next day bring the dough to room temp, shape, one last rise and bake?
c) or maybe stop after the first rise for 3 hours, refrigerate; and continue

I count 11 hours in one go to even bake the dang things... at that point, it's time to go to bed!

I was kinda thinking of having fresh rolls for Hoagies that afternoon ...

Any and all comments, suggestions, thoughts, direction
would be surely appreciated.

PHEW! That was long winded

 

[GotGarlic]

I was reading an article and came across this recipe:

https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/crusty-european-style-hard-rolls-recipe

My Husband has been talking about "Hard Rolls" for years and I have no clue as to what he's talking about. He's from the Philadelphia area, American-Italian and loves his bread, like a nice CheeseSteak on an Amoroso Roll.

Having spent the majority of my life in Hawaii, baked goods there are more towards the Asian palette as well the French-Influenced Vietnamese style of baking.

So I showed him this website and asked him to read the description at the top of the recipe and look at the photo ... is this it? Like a Kaiser Roll shape, but crusty on the outside and light and fluffy on the inside?

YES!!!



So, here's a question for the group:

a) have you ever made a roll like this or even this recipe?
b) could I stop after step #3, refrigerate; next day bring the dough to room temp, shape, one last rise and bake?
c) or maybe stop after the first rise for 3 hours, refrigerate; and continue

I count 11 hours in one go to even bake the dang things... at that point, it's time to go to bed!
[emoji38]
I was kinda thinking of having fresh rolls for Hoagies that afternoon ...

Any and all comments, suggestions, thoughts, direction
would be surely appreciated.

PHEW! That was long winded

I have made rolls like this, but not with this recipe. I use the master recipe from "Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day." It's a no-knead bread dough that is similar to the NYT no-knead recipe but the method is more refined.

I made breakfast rolls with this recipe and served them to my former German exchange student and her husband when they visited a couple years ago. They said they were just like the rolls they get at home.

You mix the ingredients in a large container, let rise for two hours, then refrigerate overnight. It will keep for up to two weeks. The next day, take out a pound of dough and let it warm up some, then divide and form however you like. As it ages, it develops a more sourdough-like flavor.

There are a lot of other types of breads you can make using the basic recipe.

https://artisanbreadinfive.com/2013...tes-a-day-is-launched-back-to-basics-updated/

 

[dragnlaw]

It's true - there is nothing like the German roll served in most restaurants over there. Yeh, I know, been almost 50 years but I still remember them.

Crusty on the outside and soft and yummy on the inside. Can't beat them.

Thanks GG - gonna look it up soon!

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

Remember, to get that hard crust, spray a bit of water on the crust before baking, and have a pan of water in the oven to keep the air moist. Went looking online and found this - https://www.tasteofhome.com/recipes/crusty-homemade-bread/ The rolls look just like what you describe.
just like what you describe. If you watch it for a while, it gives some decent, if basic recipes for other dishes. If any of our newer cooks are watching, these are good recipes with which to learn various cooking techniques.

Srrrrya; Chief Longwind of the North

 

[msmofet]

I made these Kaiser rolls, and they were pretty good.




I used this method to tie/form the rolls.


How to Make Kaiser Rolls

 

[dcSaute]

spent quite a bit of time in Germany, and decades trying to reproduce the Brotchen over here.


did it - or extremely close... the secret is diastatic malt powder.

many recipes will get you the crust and the soft interior, but not the aroma.
the malt powder brings the aroma on . . .

 

[gerardj]

I was reading an article and came across this recipe:

https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/crusty-european-style-hard-rolls-recipe

My Husband has been talking about "Hard Rolls" for years and I have no clue as to what he's talking about. He's from the Philadelphia area, American-Italian and loves his bread, like a nice CheeseSteak on an Amoroso Roll.

Having spent the majority of my life in Hawaii, baked goods there are more towards the Asian palette as well the French-Influenced Vietnamese style of baking.

So I showed him this website and asked him to read the description at the top of the recipe and look at the photo ... is this it? Like a Kaiser Roll shape, but crusty on the outside and light and fluffy on the inside?

YES!!!



So, here's a question for the group:

a) have you ever made a roll like this or even this recipe?
b) could I stop after step #3, refrigerate; next day bring the dough to room temp, shape, one last rise and bake?
c) or maybe stop after the first rise for 3 hours, refrigerate; and continue

I count 11 hours in one go to even bake the dang things... at that point, it's time to go to bed!

I was kinda thinking of having fresh rolls for Hoagies that afternoon ...

Any and all comments, suggestions, thoughts, direction
would be surely appreciated.

PHEW! That was long winded

King Arthur aren't bakers, the 'experts' they hired aren't bakers either.

From a bakery point of view. I never saw all purpose flour in a bakery for the past 50 years, its better used for making sauces in restaurants, we have access to many specialty flours these days at the retail level, order it over the internet. Bread flour is Ok but high gluten is better.

1. to make hard rolls use the high gluten flour.
2. It doesn't take more than 4 hours to make rolls.
3. Live cake yeast or ..... don't bother.

qt cold water
4 oz cake yeast
approx 3 to 3 1/2 lbs flour
4 oz salt.

Flour is always variable because the humidity of the flour varies with local conditions, adjust with water or flour as it begins to form into a dough at the very beginning, don't mix it 5 minutes then try to adjust the texture, it has to be done right at the start of mixing.

Mix the dough using very cold water, in summer use ice water.
Its a straight dough, meaning no preferment or any of that sourdough process required. Just mix 10 minutes and leave to ferment in the mixer covered with a towel. It will easily double in volume in less than 1 hour.
Knock it back by turning the mixer on for a few seconds.
Give the second rise 15 minutes, it rises faster as it goes along.
Remove from the mixer.
Divide the dough into smaller portions , ball up and rest 15 minutes.
Dividing it up is to slow the proof down, it removes some of the internal heat.
If you don't divide it after removing from the mixer it will proof faster than you can roll it.

after 15 minutes , make up into whatever shapes you want.
Tray them up, I use parchment on sheetpans.

Proof covered to keep air flow off the dough to prevent crusting over before baking. No eggwash, they bake at higher temps than eggwash can tolerate, color comes from caramelization of the simple sugars in the dough, flour millers add malt which is a simple sugar.

during baking, the more steam you use the thinner and crispier the crust, less steam for harder crust. I brush the dough heavily with water before slitting, convection ovens really work better for this bread.

If they come out with not much color the oven is too cold, jack it up to 450F or hotter.

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

Best yeast I found is SAF red, for bread baking. I hate to disagree, but have won bread contests bread made with ordinary, unbleached AP flour. The crust was hard, and the crumb soft, and airy, with great yeast flavor, with that touch of malt. If you can get high gluten flour, then get it. If not, you can add vital wheat gluten to your flour. There are always several solutions to any problem. Oh, and not to boast, just fact. In one of those bread contests, I won above a professional bread baker. He was not happy.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

 

[summer57]

I hate to disagree, but have won bread contests bread made with ordinary, unbleached AP flour.
Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

As a long-time bread baker, I pay attention to protein levels in flour. There isn't just one ordinary, unbleached AP flour -- it's regional. Here's a description of AP flours avail. in the US and their level of protein --

https://www.cooksillustrated.com/ar...-flour-shopping-tips-the-best-brands-and-more

I can absolutely believe that bakers use a consistent, professional bread baker's flour.
I've occasionally added gluten or conditioners, like citric acid, diastatic malt and malt syrup, but understanding the level of protein in your flour is a key to a good loaf.

 

[Bitser]

If you like a crackly crust, when the rolls are ready, turn off the heat and prop the oven door open an inch or so, and leave it for five minutes before taking the bread out.

 

[gerardj]

As a long-time bread baker, I pay attention to protein levels in flour. There isn't just one ordinary, unbleached AP flour -- it's regional. Here's a description of AP flours avail. in the US and their level of protein --

https://www.cooksillustrated.com/ar...-flour-shopping-tips-the-best-brands-and-more

I can absolutely believe that bakers use a consistent, professional bread baker's flour.
I've occasionally added gluten or conditioners, like citric acid, diastatic malt and malt syrup, but understanding the level of protein in your flour is a key to a good loaf.

exactly, all purpose can be all over the place.
adding vital gluten is a very good way to gain control over the variable.
But I find it better to blend gluten down than perk it up.

My favorite is All Trumps hi-gluten flour for bread, croissant and brioche, it can be dialed down by adding cake flour if lower strength is desired , for puff dough for example. 40% cake flour works for me, same in Danish dough.