Question to rescue cookie dough

[dragnlaw]

My gingerbread cookie dough - I've made the same recipe for years, no problems. I can think of only one thing I did different from any other time and it was to "fluff" the flour with a whisk for measuring.
The dough seems too soft and I can't seem to roll it thin enough to be hard when baked. It was also extremely difficult to transfer without misshaping.
I made four batches at once. Each mixed separately, wrapped, stored in fridge.
I tried kneading more flour into the 2nd batch I used but it didn't really seem to help.

I was thinking of taking one batch, breaking off walnut size pieces putting into the FP with about another cup of flour.

any thoughts?

This dough needs to be thin or it will not stand up to building, nor take heavy decorations. Just for cookies it is fine this way - but I don't need cookies right now - I need building material! LOL

 

[pictonguy]

Yeah, I think your right. Weighing before hand is your best course of action imo, then mess with the flour. Maybe startling over is your best bet.

 

[HeyItsSara]

put it in the fridge or freezer to firm up. if you don't use it for decorating i'm sure it will be delicious on its own for bar cookies or similar.

 

[dragnlaw]

HeySara - it's always in the fridge or freezer - and I don't want cookies at the moment. They will be perfect for men and other Xmas cut-outs. Just not what I'm after right now.

pictonguy - usually if recipe gives weight then that's what I do. Been doing this recipe for since about 2015 and never had a problem. Certainly can't "guess" a weight now.

Well, it's back into the mixer to see what happens. Pretty sure the motors are similar on the KA (lift bowl) and the Cuisinart FP, so perhaps I'll go with the KA.

 

[taxlady]

I really think that you put less flour. Fluffing the flour introduces more air, so the volume measurement is the same, but it's less flour.

Do you have a scale handy? If so, try an experiment. Measure the weight of a cup of flour, the way you used to measure it. Then weigh a cup of flour that you fluff, the way you measured the flour this time. That should give you some numbers so you can figure out what percentage of flour is missing from the dough you made.

 

[taxlady]

I really think that you put less flour. Fluffing the flour introduces more air, so the volume measurement is the same, but it's less flour.

Do you have a scale handy? If so, try an experiment. Measure the weight of a cup of flour, the way you used to measure it. Then weigh a cup of flour that you fluff, the way you measured the flour this time. That should give you some numbers so you can figure out what percentage of flour is missing from the dough you made.

If you want help figuring out how much to add, once you have number of grams/cup for each "kind" of flour, I'll be happy to help figure out how much flour to add to the dough you already made.

 

[taxlady]

Another thought - you mentioned trying to add more flour and it hadn't helped. Did you give it some time to hydrate the added flour? If not, try letting it sit in the fridge for a while, so the added flour can absorb some water from the dough and even out the hydration throughout the dough.

 

[pictonguy]

I really think that you put less flour. Fluffing the flour introduces more air, so the volume measurement is the same, but it's less flour.

Do you have a scale handy? If so, try an experiment. Measure the weight of a cup of flour, the way you used to measure it. Then weigh a cup of flour that you fluff, the way you measured the flour this time. That should give you some numbers so you can figure out what percentage of flour is missing from the dough you made.

Yeah, exactly what I was thinking.

 

[dragnlaw]

taxy... thank you - but I don't do math - of any complication, multiplication, dividication, etc. LOL I'm also just not about to start experiments. You are both right of course.
Especially the hydration bit - never even occurred to me.- Good Tip!
The extent of my experiment will be to use the measure cup - fluff my flour as per usual - measure my cup - then bang it on the counter to settle it and visually see the difference. I'm betting for 2.25 cups of AP flour - fluffing it probably lost ???

I might add I only started "fluffing" my flour when I started to bake bread on a more consistent basis. The 2-3 recipes I was constantly using were by the same person and that was her style.

Gonna take some pics! BRB

 

[pepperhead212]

I would do what you were thinking about - break up some of the chilled dough, put it in the FP, and sprinkle with a small amount of flour, and pulse it, until it breaks up, then comes together again. And for most of those recipes, the scoop and level method is the best way to measure, unless they actually tell you to fluff it up, which gives less flour, which you found out! And for future reference, if you want to use the weight, here's what I often do - I scoop a few cups of flour, and see what they weigh - usually about 4.85 oz/c - and a cup of the sugar, and so forth, then I can weigh the different ingredients in the FP, or into bowls, if I am making several of one recipe. And I measure out the spices, salt, and soda into the small dip cups, one at a time, so I only have to open each jar one time, when making things like those gingersnaps.

 

[dragnlaw]

Fluffed and tapped + weighed 212 gr

Not fluffed and tapped + weighed + 234 gr

Both were leveled with a straight edge and weighed before and after tapping. Weights remained the same.

so approximately a 20 gram difference between fluffing and not.
You're Welcome.

 

[taxlady]

Fluffed and tapped + weighed 212 gr
View attachment 66963

Not fluffed and tapped + weighed + 234 gr
View attachment 66964

Both were leveled with a straight edge and weighed before and after tapping. Weights remained the same.

so approximately a 20 gram difference between fluffing and not.
You're Welcome.

So, now you know. If you want to fluff before measuring in a recipe that wasn't designed for that, add an extra 20-22 grams per cup.

In cooking class in middle school, we were taught to sift the flour into the cup. Then, run a knife vertically through the flour to let out any air "bubbles" and top up with sifted flour. It almost always makes the flour settle. I still do that for some older recipes. I sift with the cup sitting on some waxed paper or a plate. Some of the flour goes outside the cup. Then, after I do the knife thing, I can spoon some of that "outside the cup" flour to top up the cup.

 

[dragnlaw]

LOL, that seems a little counterintuitive, running a knife thru to 'settle' and topping up, but hey, if sifting left big 'air bubbles' then perhaps you had to do it.
I was taught, in school, and via mumsy-lore, even the Joy of C I think all showed that to sift flour, you sifted onto a piece of paper (wax, parchment, plate if need be) then gently spooned the flour into a measure cup. You were not supposed to tap the cup to 'settle' it. In the pictures I took, it took an incredible amount of tapping that cup to get the settling that I did.

Years ago I got fed up with that mess and would just measure out my cup and remove about a tablespoon. None of my recipes ever suffered by that. LOL
Will admit about the only thing I bake now-a-days are bread, occasional pie crusts, gingerbread (once a year), haven't baked 'cookies' in about 3 maybe 4 years (keep saying I will but never do).
While typing all this I was starting to wonder what the original purpose of sifting was about. Not to aeriate I shouldn't think, but to removed compacted lumps and weevils or such things. Perhaps flour, back in the day, was not as refined, packaged nor stored as well as it is now. Any thoughts?

and what kind of sifter do you all use? Don't remember my gramma's, mom had a large one, would hold about 2 cups of flour maybe? Was a round cylinder shape, narrowing at the bottom, with a handle you squeezed to make blades twist back and forth between 3 stacked screens.
I had a much smaller version, held only 1 cup of flour. Confined to the back of the baking cupboard and brought out only to sift powdered sugar on occasion. Now I just use a sieve.

 

[taxlady]

I have used those cylindrical sifters with the squeeze handle. I never owned one. I just used a sieve. No, there was no tapping the side of the cup in the method I was taught for measuring flour. One vertical go with a knife was all. It wasn't to make it "settle".

 

[dragnlaw]

No, no, I understood what you said about the knife just slicing thru for air pockets. You were clear on that.
That admonition of not tapping was given to us when we were learning to scoop in with the spoon.

 

[pepperhead212]

I think the sifting, back in the real old days, was as much to get bugs out as lumps! And since sifting used to be common place, they also sifted over the measuring cup, before leveling, giving a very fluffed up measurement! With almost all the cookies, cakes, and other similar things I do now, the flour and other dry ing. goes into the FP, which mixes it, and breaks up any clumps, even if I'm not continuing the recipe in the FP.

What was really funny is some of those old recipes telling us to "sift the flour 3 times...", before continuing. Like some of the recipes calling for us to grind the meat 3 times.

 

[dragnlaw]

I think the sifting, back in the real old days, was as much to get bugs out as lumps!
What was really funny is some of those old recipes telling us to "sift the flour 3 times...", before continuing. Like some of the recipes calling for us to grind the meat 3 times.

Oh Golly, yes! I remember that!

 

[taxlady]

I think the sifting, back in the real old days, was as much to get bugs out as lumps! And since sifting used to be common place, they also sifted over the measuring cup, before leveling, giving a very fluffed up measurement! With almost all the cookies, cakes, and other similar things I do now, the flour and other dry ing. goes into the FP, which mixes it, and breaks up any clumps, even if I'm not continuing the recipe in the FP.

What was really funny is some of those old recipes telling us to "sift the flour 3 times...", before continuing. Like some of the recipes calling for us to grind the meat 3 times.

But, didn't most of those recipes also tell you to sift in the other. dry ingredients? I always figured it was to make sure that the other ingredients were well distributed.

Grinding the meat multiple times grinds it finer. Well, three times will often make it into a paste. I have a Danish recipe for liver pate that has you grind the liver three times. That is done to get very smooth pate. These recipes were written when most home cooks had a meat grinder, but didn't have a food processor.

 

[dragnlaw]

Well, considering the "other" dry ingredients were baking powder, baking soda and probably the salt, no biggie! But perhaps - back then - the flour wasn't quite consistently as fine as it may be now?

Meat - yep, by the 3rd time it would definitely be paste!

 

[taxlady]

Doesn't your baking soda ever clump? Mine always does, little clumps that have to be broken up or they might leave a bitter spot. I notice them, since I bake with whole wheat flour, which is darker than the stark white baking soda and baking powder. If I see one, I break it up with my fingers. I don't remember if I have seen them in baking powder. Salt and leaveners really need to be dispersed evenly.