High-pressure canned Elderberry syrup burnt?

[Boppesz]

Hello there! I am new to this community, hope someone will be able to help me.
Located in Europe, and started high-pressure canning. The goal is to prepare sugar-free syrups based on fruits, blossoms etc.
Since there is no sugar, normal canning is not sufficient, hence high-pressure canning. I did this at 115˚C (239˚F) for 30 minutes and the result was bad. The smell and taste were a little like burnt.

Does anyone have experience with this?

 

[dragnlaw]

I have to start with a couple of questions.
Have you ever canned other foods, for example, vegetables?
Do you have a reliable source for your canning?
Are you following established recipes?

I might add that I, personally, regard 'syrup' as a sugar based thick liquid.
If there is no sugar I (again personally) would be inclined to called it a paste.
Not trying to be persnickety, it just helps if we are talking about the same substance.


and Welcome to DC, Boppesz.

 

[Boppesz]

Thanks for your answer, appreciate it. I have canned foods, but not pressure canned. It did sugar based syrups as well as acidic fruit based stuff, but now want to do pH neutral and no-sugar (artificial sweetened and/or erythritol) based syrups. So not much experience there. Did not do veggies or meats or one pot meals yet

Do you think it became too hot? I did not follow an established recipe, it is my own. Worked at atmospheric conditions last year for 6 out of 8 bottles. No sugar neutral pH is not easy I reckon

 

[Aunt Bea]

Did you add artificial sweetener to this mixture?

Would it be possible to can the pulp/juice without sweetener and add sweetener right before use.

If you have access to a freezer, I would try freezing a small portion of the same pulp/juice or even try using it fresh to see if you detect an off taste prior to canning.

 

[Boppesz]

My recipe is:

6000ml of elderflower blossom “syrup” (24 hrs soaked)
2000gr Erythritol
10 grams pure Stevia concentrate 98%
160ml lemonjuice
25grams Citric acid

Filled 8 bottles of 1000ml cold (after the sweeteners were solubilised) and brought them to 115°C/239°F. Took 85 minutes to get there, kept for 30 more, and cooling to below boiling took another 30 or so

 

[Boppesz]

Ow yes the taste before was good as it should be

 

[taxlady]

Maybe try an experiment of canning some elderflower soaking water by itself and a container of plain water with erythritol and one with plain water and stevia. It sounds like something got burnt. If that is the case, you need to figure out which one. But, I would personally be very wary of testing the safety of this for storage without a microbiology lab and some competent food scientists.

 

[dragnlaw]

Nothing was done in a "dry" state - which to me can be the only source of "burnt". So getting that taste is because of.... why? I think that is the answer you are looking for.

As taxlady has said. You really need to know how to test your final product for safety. It is not a "guess, I think this should be Ok." type of situation. You really must know how to test or be able to take it for testing. Or know the formula to follow for safety.

Sugars and salts are preservatives, along with acids. Can artificial sweeteners act as preservative?

 

[GotGarlic]

Nothing was done in a "dry" state - which to me can be the only source of "burnt". So getting that taste is because of.... why? I think that is the answer you are looking for.

Food doesn't have to be dry to burn. Think about scorching milk or gravy or a thick stew over heat.

As taxlady has said. You really need to know how to test your final product for safety. It is not a "guess, I think this should be Ok." type of situation. You really must know how to test or be able to take it for testing. Or know the formula to follow for safety.

Sugars and salts are preservatives, along with acids. Can artificial sweeteners act as preservative?

Not in the way the OP wants to do it. This is from my favorite site for canning and pickling information:

... lots of the artificial sweeteners become bitter during extended cooking, so if you added your sweetener at the beginning of the cooking and then boiled the heck out of the fruit for 45 minutes, the finished product may well be inedible.

Canning 101: Can You Preserve With Artificial Sweeteners?

A couple weeks ago, I wrote a Canning 101 post about the different roles that sugar plays in preserving. This was my attempt to conclusively answer the questions I regularly get from people wanting to reduce

foodinjars.com

Sugar can help certain preserves last longer, but it isn't exactly a preservative. For more information: https://foodinjars.com/blog/canning-101-sugars-role-in-home-preserved-food/

 

[dragnlaw]

Well, I think I disagree - scorched milk, etc. is in direct contact with the heat on the pan. Not in a pressure cooker being surrounded by boiling water/steam inside a glass jar. To my way of thinking it is not the same thing.

That being said, I believe yo answered the scorched part with the artificial sweetner being the culprit.

Sugar certainly does help preserves last longer. I have rarely, if ever, stored my jams or jellies in the fridge after opening. I believe only once did I have a jam get moldy on me. I believe it was from direct contact with a knife being used for the toast. I almost always use a spoon specifically for the jam to take it out of the jar. It is used for nothing else at that time.

Now having said this, you just know my jam jar will become moldy this week.

correction:
I keep my mint jelly in the fridge - because I rarely have lamb - and wehn I do I happen to like the mint cool.

 

[Boppesz]

Maybe try an experiment of canning some elderflower soaking water by itself and a container of plain water with erythritol and one with plain water and stevia. It sounds like something got burnt. If that is the case, you need to figure out which one. But, I would personally be very wary of testing the safety of this for storage without a microbiology lab and some competent food scientists.

that would be a good idea to rule out what got burned, as I also think something burnt. Well, about safety, as said last year with processing only boiled (100˚C) 6 out of 8 bottles were ok.

 

[Boppesz]

Food doesn't have to be dry to burn. Think about scorching milk or gravy or a thick stew over heat.

Not in the way the OP wants to do it. This is from my favorite site for canning and pickling information:

Canning 101: Can You Preserve With Artificial Sweeteners?

A couple weeks ago, I wrote a Canning 101 post about the different roles that sugar plays in preserving. This was my attempt to conclusively answer the questions I regularly get from people wanting to reduce

foodinjars.com

Sugar can help certain preserves last longer, but it isn't exactly a preservative. For more information: https://foodinjars.com/blog/canning-101-sugars-role-in-home-preserved-food/

Right, I have also read that thick stews and mashed veggies like sweet potatoes and pumpkin also easily burn. I agree that artificial sweeteners cannot work as preservatives, especially since dosage levels are extremely low. The Erythritol could perhaps function the same as sugar, via osmotic pressure, just not sure whether my amount is sufficient (you cannot solubilise the same amount as sugar)