Gravy tastes like flour, help!
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scott123
Senior Cook
Did you simmer the gravy after you added the roux?
First of all, for every cup of liquid/broth you want to use 2 T. of fat and 2 T. of flour. Start off with a clean sauce pan, heat on medium, add flour, fat and stir constantly until bubbling. Once it bubbles, turn heat down and continue to bubble for 1 min (for a blond roux). Take off heat. Let sit a minute or two. Whisk in liquid. Return to medium heat and stir constantly until it starts bubble. Turn heat down to low and gently simmer for 1 minute, stirring constantly. Whisk. Heat to lowest possible setting. Stop stirring
Let occasionally bubble for 2-5 more minutes while added salt, pepper, and adjusting liquid if necessary. Remember, as the gravy cools it will thicken a bit.
First of all, for every cup of liquid/broth you want to use 2 T. of fat and 2 T. of flour. Start off with a clean sauce pan, heat on medium, add flour, fat and stir constantly until bubbling. Once it bubbles, turn heat down and continue to bubble for 1 min (for a blond roux). Take off heat. Let sit a minute or two. Whisk in liquid. Return to medium heat and stir constantly until it starts bubble. Turn heat down to low and gently simmer for 1 minute, stirring constantly. Whisk. Heat to lowest possible setting. Stop stirring
Let occasionally bubble for 2-5 more minutes while added salt, pepper, and adjusting liquid if necessary. Remember, as the gravy cools it will thicken a bit.BubbaGourmet
Senior Cook
Actually, when I get this question the answer is almost invariably that the roux wasn't cooked long enough. For a light (blond) roux, I generally cook them about 5 minutes. It isn't long enough to darken the roux, but it is long enough to remove the flour taste.
scott123
Senior Cook
Bubba, I disagree
I have two words for you. Beurre manie. Completely uncooked roux successfully used by French cooks for centuries with no floury taste whatsoever. The taste of flour in a sauce/gravy is the result of ungelatinized starches, not from undercooked roux. Simmer the combined broth/roux long and enough and whatever floury taste there is will be gone.
Look at biscuits and gravy. How long is the typical roux cooked for that? Have you ever eaten anyone's biscuits and gravy that tasted floury? I haven't.
Gelatinized flour has no floury taste whatever. Case in point, the middle of bread.
Longer cooked rouxs are about adding flavor. A one minute roux tastes like an unsweetened shortbread (Yes, I have tasted it). Toasting it longer than that will give you nuttier, more complex, maillard reaction components. It's all very personal in this regard. Some people like their toast light and some people like it dark. Whatever length you choose, make sure you simmer your sauce/gravy long enough because that's where the removal of any floury taste occurs.
At least, that's how I feel about it
I have two words for you. Beurre manie. Completely uncooked roux successfully used by French cooks for centuries with no floury taste whatsoever. The taste of flour in a sauce/gravy is the result of ungelatinized starches, not from undercooked roux. Simmer the combined broth/roux long and enough and whatever floury taste there is will be gone.
Look at biscuits and gravy. How long is the typical roux cooked for that? Have you ever eaten anyone's biscuits and gravy that tasted floury? I haven't.
Gelatinized flour has no floury taste whatever. Case in point, the middle of bread.
Longer cooked rouxs are about adding flavor. A one minute roux tastes like an unsweetened shortbread (Yes, I have tasted it
). Toasting it longer than that will give you nuttier, more complex, maillard reaction components. It's all very personal in this regard. Some people like their toast light and some people like it dark. Whatever length you choose, make sure you simmer your sauce/gravy long enough because that's where the removal of any floury taste occurs.At least, that's how I feel about it
BubbaGourmet
Senior Cook
Actually scott I know where you are coming from and to me, beurre manie DOES taste like uncooked flour. Can't stand it. The roux for biscuits and gravy (one of the 10 best breakfast foods on earth...when made with country sausage) is typically cooked for at LEAST 5 minutes. My bias in this is clear...I cannot ABIDE the taste of uncooked flour! No dumplings please...no "chicken and pastry"...no spaetzle...to me they are just....ewwww.
scott123
Senior Cook
Only the top 10 breakfast foods?
I'm curious, do you find the middle of bread offensive? The middle of bread contains only steamed untoasted flour.
Do you have the same revulsion to corn starch slurries?
I have to be honest and say that I'm not a big fan of beurre manie. I prefer the nutty shortbready taste I get from a 1 minute roux for most of my sauces/gravies. I can certainly understand your preference for toasting your flour further.
So I'm guessing you do a 5 minute roux for bechamel too, right?
I'm curious, do you find the middle of bread offensive? The middle of bread contains only steamed untoasted flour.
Do you have the same revulsion to corn starch slurries?
I have to be honest and say that I'm not a big fan of beurre manie. I prefer the nutty shortbready taste I get from a 1 minute roux for most of my sauces/gravies. I can certainly understand your preference for toasting your flour further.
So I'm guessing you do a 5 minute roux for bechamel too, right?
-DEADLY SUSHI-
Washing Up
Well I have a problem too... my flour tastes like GRAVEY! :?
BubbaGourmet
Senior Cook
Sushi;
That would only be a problem if you want ot bake a cake....but biscuits? Hmmm....biscuits that taste like gravy!
Scott...I HATE white bread....could this be why?
That would only be a problem if you want ot bake a cake....but biscuits? Hmmm....biscuits that taste like gravy!
Scott...I HATE white bread....could this be why?
scott123
Senior Cook
Hey Bubba, speaking of sausage and gravy, do you have a good recipe for making homemade country sausage? I've tried a few recipes but none has come close in flavor to the stuff I get at the store.
BubbaGourmet
Senior Cook
scott;
Believe it or not I have never tried to make it at home. I don't know where yuou live but here we can get about 5 different excellent brands. Neese's, Gunnoes, Bass Farms, Jimmy Dean or the local store brand. They are so good that I haven't even bothered to make my own (hmmmmm) but I will check the local store and see if I can get theirs for you.
Believe it or not I have never tried to make it at home. I don't know where yuou live but here we can get about 5 different excellent brands. Neese's, Gunnoes, Bass Farms, Jimmy Dean or the local store brand. They are so good that I haven't even bothered to make my own (hmmmmm) but I will check the local store and see if I can get theirs for you.
scott123
Senior Cook
Bubba, I only get one of those brands on your list and that's Jimmy Dean, which I haven't tried because of the preservatives (BHT, I think). I'm happy with the taste of Bob Evans, but at 3.49/lb and being about 50% fat, that's not much of a food value.
A couple of sites about sausage making which I hope you find interesting:
http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/
http://www.northwestsmoking.com/
Also from Bruce Aidells' Complete Sausage Book by Bruce Aidells and Denis Kelly [Ten Speed Press©2000]
Spicy Fresh Country Sausage- about 4.5#-2kg
3#pork butt
3/4 to 1#pork back fat
1 Tbsp red pepper flakes
4tsp kosher salt
2 tsp sugar
2 tsp coarsly ground black pepper
2 tsp dried sage
1 tsp dried thyme
1 tsp ground caynne
1/2 cup water
medium hog casing- optional
Put the meat and fat thru the meat grinder using the quater inch plate.
In a large bowl, mix the ground meat with all the other ingredients including water, kneading and squeezing the meat until everthing is nicely blended.
For patties, wrap in bulk and refrigerate until you areready to use it.Or stuff in casing for 4" links.
Will keep for 3 days in reefer up to 2 months in freezer.
Now this is their baic recipe . I would add garlic.
The one time I made sausage, the fellow teaching made his basic mix, fried a small bit, tasted, added a tiny bit of more herb or spice mixed, and tried it again. I remember 4 or 5 additions until he pronounced it READY!
Hope this gets you started.
http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/
http://www.northwestsmoking.com/
Also from Bruce Aidells' Complete Sausage Book by Bruce Aidells and Denis Kelly [Ten Speed Press©2000]
Spicy Fresh Country Sausage- about 4.5#-2kg
3#pork butt
3/4 to 1#pork back fat
1 Tbsp red pepper flakes
4tsp kosher salt
2 tsp sugar
2 tsp coarsly ground black pepper
2 tsp dried sage
1 tsp dried thyme
1 tsp ground caynne
1/2 cup water
medium hog casing- optional
Put the meat and fat thru the meat grinder using the quater inch plate.
In a large bowl, mix the ground meat with all the other ingredients including water, kneading and squeezing the meat until everthing is nicely blended.
For patties, wrap in bulk and refrigerate until you areready to use it.Or stuff in casing for 4" links.
Will keep for 3 days in reefer up to 2 months in freezer.
Now this is their baic recipe . I would add garlic.
The one time I made sausage, the fellow teaching made his basic mix, fried a small bit, tasted, added a tiny bit of more herb or spice mixed, and tried it again. I remember 4 or 5 additions until he pronounced it READY!
Hope this gets you started.
-DEADLY SUSHI-
Washing Up
Hey... those are great sites! Wonder if I can make some links in my apartment. :?
scott123
Senior Cook
Robt, thanks, that looks about the closest I've ever seen to the sausage I buy. I'll give that a shot. Thanks again.
BubbaGourmet
Senior Cook
Thanks robot! That looks great! I'll try a batch of that myself!
scott123
Senior Cook
Robt, my apologies about misspelling your name (it's corrected now).
Thanks again for the recipe.
Thanks again for the recipe.
