Looking for advice, recommendations, or experiences w/ Dual-Fuel oven/range

[CountryBoy19]

The short answer is that all advice, experiences, recommendations are welcome but for more detail see below:

Sometime in the next couple years we will be undergoing a full kitchen renovation, I'm starting the search for my range/stove now so the kitchen can be designed around it. I'm a bit overwhelmed or dazed at the number of options.

The kitchen is 14-1/2 feet wide and almost 18 feet long, will have cabinets/sink/appliances along the long walls, and an island in the middle. One end (short wall) is open into the dining area, other short wall opens to the back patio through double-doors. Cabinet/counter depth can be standard or deeper on one side to accommodate a deeper range.

Our kitchen remodel will be somewhat high-end, we plan to live in this house forever so we don't mind spending money, but at the same time we don't want to ridiculously waste money on things that are unnecessary. At this time my wife is not fond of the drop-in range top and a separate wall oven but I may be able to convince her so I'm open to suggestions of separate appliances.

Must haves for oven:
1) Electric, true convection (European convection) that will bake evenly, not the homeowner grade "convection"
2) At least 1 easy glide rack (roller rack)

3) Auto-clean
4) At least 550 bake temp (for baking pizzas etc)
5) broil
6) 30-36" width (may be able to do 48" but don't need it and don't want to take up that much space so I would have to be convinced)

Additional desires for oven:
1) Hidden elements
2) Soft close door
3) delayed cook, timed cook etc

Range top must haves:
1)Gas
2) At least one high-power/fast-boil burner (18k BTU minimum)
3) Comes in LP or can be easily/cheaply converted to LP
4) Continuous grates for sliding things to the side
5) At least one burner capable of a low simmer
6) easy to clean (open burners must have an easy-clean system in place to allow easy cleaning under/around burners)

Range top desires:
1) Control knobs not front mounted (only applicable range/oven combos; we have kids and knobs in reach of the kids can be a risk), along front edge located on the top surface is ok
2) Flat top griddle option (preferably something that can be added in place of burner grates without creating hot-spots on the griddle)

If any of these must-haves or desires seem crazy, unnecessary, or out of place I'm open-minded and willing to listen to reason. Please give me your opinion.

That being said, ultimately I want QUALITY. I'm willing to pay more for quality, but hate paying just for a name... I really like the look of the features on the Capital Connoisseurian but I read a few bad reviews and blogs, one big complaint was the low height inside the oven. I'm not tied to any one brand, but I don't want "cheapo"...

Lastly, a bit of detail on me and what I want to do. Just a home cook, I enjoy perfecting recipes, making excellent food, and feeding my family with wholesome made from scratch meals. I also do home canning etc. I like to bake from-scratch breads and make my own pizza from scratch (including the sauce from home-grown tomatoes). My wife bakes cakes occasionally for friends/family gatherings etc but she isn't doing that as much now that we have multiple kids...

Any recommendations on brand, models, setups, or general advice are all welcome.

 

[Kayelle]

Hi Country Boy, and welcome to Discuss Cooking.

That's quite a shopping list there and you sure have your work cut out for you to get everything you want in a stove. I would suggest you contract a kitchen designer.
I recently purchased a new stove I'm very happy with, but it's not even near what you've requested. Good luck.

 

[RPCookin]

Hi Country Boy, and welcome to Discuss Cooking.

That's quite a shopping list there and you sure have your work cut out for you to get everything you want in a stove. I would suggest you contract a kitchen designer.
I recently purchased a new stove I'm very happy with, but it's not even near what you've requested. Good luck.

New range here too, and I love it, but not a clue what would meet Country Boy's requirements.

 

[GotGarlic]

Hi Country Boy, and welcome to Discuss Cooking.

That's quite a shopping list there and you sure have your work cut out for you to get everything you want in a stove. I would suggest you contract a kitchen designer.
I recently purchased a new stove I'm very happy with, but it's not even near what you've requested. Good luck.

+1. I think it's a bit early to be pre-shopping for a range now because they will change over the next couple of years. As long as you have the dimensions and make decisions like where and how it will be vented, you can design your kitchen around that without choosing a specific range now.

We worked with a kitchen contractor when we renovated our kitchen, and he recommended an appliance dealer for us to work with. I would suggest that you look for such a dealer with a showroom so you can go and see what's available. They also may be able to tell you what kind of changes or improvements are in the works for new models.

 

[CountryBoy19]

I realize the list of desires may be a tall order, but the list of must-have's really isn't that difficult is it? I realize that to get some of those features I'm going to have to go middle or high-end, I'm ok with that. I'm more-so looking for any/all advice experiences. IE, "You really don't need xyz because of this" or "you should maybe look into this instead" or "I didn't want a separate wall oven at first either but now I love it because of this"... that's the advice I'm looking for.

Regarding a kitchen designer/contractor what would be the advantages?

Just to put things in perspective, I'm going to do all the demo and "rough-in" work, electrical changes etc. I will do the tile floors and any tile backsplash if that's what we decide on. The cabinet maker is already picked out for the custom cabinets and my name will be on his waiting list soon (he has a 1 year waiting list). Only things really up in the air right now are appliances, layout, cabinetry details (sizes/locations/etc), and any other final details...

Lastly, regarding timing: I'm not looking to pick my final range up right now, I'm in the research phase so I can narrow down what I actually want. Then, if/as models/lines change, I may be able to catch a good deal on a close-out etc. I'm not in a hurry, I'm just trying to narrow down what I'm looking for.

 

[GotGarlic]

I realize the list of desires may be a tall order, but the list of must-have's really isn't that difficult is it? I realize that to get some of those features I'm going to have to go middle or high-end, I'm ok with that. I'm more-so looking for any/all advice experiences. IE, "You really don't need xyz because of this" or "you should maybe look into this instead" or "I didn't want a separate wall oven at first either but now I love it because of this"... that's the advice I'm looking for.

I don't know much about 1 and 2. I have a gas convection oven and it works fine for me. 3 through 6 are pretty standard for medium to high-end ranges.

Regarding a kitchen designer/contractor what would be the advantages?

As with any professional, the advantage is that they do this all day, every day, so they have knowledge and experience that others don't have. That can help you avoid costly mistakes, and take advantage of ideas from industry shows, their other clients, etc.

Just to put things in perspective, I'm going to do all the demo and "rough-in" work, electrical changes etc. I will do the tile floors and any tile backsplash if that's what we decide on. The cabinet maker is already picked out for the custom cabinets and my name will be on his waiting list soon (he has a 1 year waiting list). Only things really up in the air right now are appliances, layout, cabinetry details (sizes/locations/etc), and any other final details...

My husband did the demo, floor and ceiling when we renovated our kitchen. The contractor hired and coordinated the cabinet maker and the countertop installer, and ordering, delivering and installing the appliances. We hired a separate painter.

Lastly, regarding timing: I'm not looking to pick my final range up right now, I'm in the research phase so I can narrow down what I actually want. Then, if/as models/lines change, I may be able to catch a good deal on a close-out etc. I'm not in a hurry, I'm just trying to narrow down what I'm looking for.

I still think it's a good idea to find a kitchen appliance dealer and visit the showroom. Looking at stuff like this online can definitely get overwhelming and confusing. Narrowing the choices down to a couple manufacturers would probably help a lot.

So from my own experience, I wanted a Jenn-Air range because my mother had one and my sister has one and I always liked them. If I could do it again, I would get the model with the small second oven instead of the warming drawer. I wanted all gas because we lose power usually a few times a year, and I wanted a stove/oven that would always work.

I don't have room for a wall oven, so that wasn't a consideration. My kitchen is about the same dimensions as yours, although I have a window and the sink and not a door at the far end, and a laundry area off the kitchen that limits the counter space on that side.

I originally wanted an island but as my husband was putting it in during a previous renovation, we found that it wouldn't leave enough room on either side of it to get around it easily, or to open the refrigerator door all the way. So we turned it and have a peninsula I actually like it better. I can shoo people out of my side of the kitchen

We had a thread not too long ago with pictures of our kitchens. Here's mine: http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f26/our-kitchens-96337-7.html#post1478238

 

[Janet H]

Welcome to DC. You are wise to start thinking about what you want in a kitchen well in advance of the remodel. We gutted ours a few years back and found the services of a kitchen designer to be worth every cent. The cabinet shop where we ultimately purchased cabinets offered this service at no cost IF you purchased from them or you could simply pay for the service.

The Designer saved us a PILE of money by making suggestions for using stock cabinet boxes instead of some customs sizes. this semi-custom approach to cabinets (stock boxes and custom doors) got us a great result. She had clever ideas about storage that had not occurred to us and some good tips on suppliers. The cost of cabinets is enormousness and she saved us about 25 percent.

I also had some similar range needs and her recommendation was to install a dual fuel range. I ignored this suggestion. 4 years after the remodel was over we finally took this path after an expensive jennaire electric failed repeatedly. We put in a propane tank and got a Thermadore range. Love, love, LOVE. I wish we had trusted her expertise in this regard, it would have ultimately been cheaper and avoided 4 years of repairs and frustration.

Using a range instead of oven and separate cook-top will also save costs both on appliances and electrical work. One further thing to consider.. if your redo is a few years down the road and you are concerned about front of the stove controls becuase of kid safety issues.. this may no longer be a concern (they grow up). You will have many more options if you can consider ranges with front controls and front controls mean you don't have to reach over steaming and sizzling pots to reach the controls... just a thought.

Good luck with your reno.

 

[Mad Cook]

"The kitchen is 14-1/2 feet wide and almost 18 feet long,"

Please, please, will you marry me? I've moved from a little cottage with a huge kitchen to a much bigger house with a miniature rabbit hutch for a kitchen. I thought it would be ok but I now know I'd live in a tent if it had a decent sized kitchen!

 

[Addie]

Please, please, will you marry me? I've moved from a little cottage with a huge kitchen to a much bigger house with a miniature rabbit hutch for a kitchen. I thought it would be ok but I now know I'd live in a tent if it had a decent sized kitchen!

Why you little hussy. You will marry anyone that comes along with a good offer. (I am right behind you!)

 

[CountryBoy19]

One further thing to consider.. if your redo is a few years down the road and you are concerned about front of the stove controls becuase of kid safety issues.. this may no longer be a concern (they grow up). You will have many more options if you can consider ranges with front controls and front controls mean you don't have to reach over steaming and sizzling pots to reach the controls... just a thought.

Good luck with your reno.

Janet, thanks for the insightful response, lots of good info for me, and you folks are convincing me to consider a kitchen designer...

The controls thing is an issue because the kids grow up; they're too small to be a problem right now but give it a few years. We have 2 kids under the age of 2 and we hope to have more... just trying to plan in advance.

Regarding the added cost of separate appliances, it seems that its a bit of a moot point when considering dual-fuel. Dual-fuel ranges are quite a bit more expensive, to the point that it's almost the same to go with separate appliances.

The benefit of going separate is that I get more options, and the controls issue becomes a moot point.

Please, please, will you marry me? I've moved from a little cottage with a huge kitchen to a much bigger house with a miniature rabbit hutch for a kitchen. I thought it would be ok but I now know I'd live in a tent if it had a decent sized kitchen!

Haha, I'm happily married but it's not the first time I've had that offer. When I first started my current job I took home-made baked goods in to work and had at least 2 women ask me if I was single that day... haha.

That being said, this house is HUGE... my wife and I have been watching patiently for our dream house for several years now and this one came on the market WELL under market value, we snatched up only a few days after it was on the market. It was built by an inherited millionaire that ran out of money and was forced to sell it a number of years after it was built. The seller needed it to move quickly and priced it very low... It didn't meet everything we wanted/needed but it hit a lot of the major items on our wishlist and it was cheap enough that we could afford to make it everything we want. The instant we walked in to look at it we knew the kitchen was going to be the first major project; 10 foot ceilings with standard cabinets meant a LOT of wasted wallspace above the cabinets that makes it look proportionally awkward plus many other things we didn't like about the kitchen.... ok I'll stop rambling now... haha

 

[GotGarlic]

One further thing to consider.. if your redo is a few years down the road and you are concerned about front of the stove controls becuase of kid safety issues.. this may no longer be a concern (they grow up). You will have many more options if you can consider ranges with front controls and front controls mean you don't have to reach over steaming and sizzling pots to reach the controls... just a thought.

Totally agree with this. I hate having to reach over hot food to use the controls on the back (my MIL's stove is like this; mine has them i the front).

Btw, my oven has delayed cook, rapid and regular bread proofing, rapid preheat, a cook-to-temp feature with a thermometer probe that plugs into the inside of the oven, and other features I don't remember. I really like it.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Totally agree with this. I hate having to reach over hot food to use the controls on the back (my MIL's stove is like this; mine has them i the front).

Btw, my oven has delayed cook, rapid and regular bread proofing, rapid preheat, a cook-to-temp feature with a thermometer probe that plugs into the inside of the oven, and other features I don't remember. I really like it.

Just to clarify the controls thing, mounted near the front, but on the top surface is ok (out of sight out of mind of the little ones), I just don't want them mounted on the front side, right above the oven door where they can be easily seen and reached by the little ones. I hope that makes better sense.

Bread-proofing is another thing I would like to have but I figured that would severely limit my options with the tough list I already have. I'm really starting to lean toward separate appliances, I like the idea of having the oven mounted up a bit higher than floor level...

 

[roadfix]

I think the best thing for you to do is to go to your nearest high end appliance showroom where they carry most major brands.
Here in the SoCa we have Pacific Sales and Universal Appliances with huge showrooms.

 

[CountryBoy19]

I think the best thing for you to do is to go to your nearest high end appliance showroom where they carry most major brands.
Here in the SoCa we have Pacific Sales and Universal Appliances with huge showrooms.

I'll likely do that when I can. I don't think there are any close to me; I'll probably have to go to Indianapolis (1-1/2 hr drive)... and I can't do that any time soon as I'm currently working overseas...

 

[Mad Cook]

Why you little hussy. You will marry anyone that comes along with a good offer. (I am right behind you!)

Never mind all that nonsence about marrying for love. I'll go for money every time

 

[erehweslefox]

OK here are my two cents, I tend not to disagree at all with my friends above in particular or in general.

I think it is great that you are planning ahead. And have to let you into my degree of planning, my Beloved Wife and I are still in apartments, we are thinking about what my (Beloved Wife doesn't cook), dream kitchen in both a house, and a cabin, which we hope to build in the long term clan.

I'm going to tell you what my plan is for my kitchen in the cabin, which we plan to build from scratch. I've been looking at this with the obsession a 15 year old girl plans her wedding, but without, sadly, a pintrest account. Maybe some things you can use and somethings you can't, don't know how extensive a remodel it is.

One thing I'm hoping on is commercial fixtures. Commercial food service providers might not seem to be a way to go, I do find that if you get to know the food service people in your area, they tend to work on a 'deal over a beer' ways and if you talk to them, for a very big job, they tend to order more fixtures than they need (a big instillation like a Outback Steakhouse, has to open on time, and sometimes they double up on the order so a bad stove doesn't tank the opening), or have older but still serviceable units they are taking out of a place, to make room for a different menu.

 

[CountryBoy19]

One thing I'm hoping on is commercial fixtures. Commercial food service providers might not seem to be a way to go, I do find that if you get to know the food service people in your area, they tend to work on a 'deal over a beer' ways and if you talk to them, for a very big job, they tend to order more fixtures than they need (a big instillation like a Outback Steakhouse, has to open on time, and sometimes they double up on the order so a bad stove doesn't tank the opening), or have older but still serviceable units they are taking out of a place, to make room for a different menu.

I certainly appreciate the input; I may be able to help you with what I've found in my research so far.

True commercial fixtures have different installation requirements... primarily fire protection requirements and clearance to comustibles etc. One thing I didn't realize when I started searching is that a commercial stove/range requires non-combustible countertops/cabinets next to it plus something like 8" clearance all around (including underneath). They look may work in your kitchen or at Outback but it won't work in my kitchen so I started looking at high-end, commercial-style ranges made for home installation (better insulated so it gets rid of the clearances and non-combustibles requirements)...

 

[erehweslefox]

True commercial fixtures have different installation requirements... primarily fire protection requirements and clearance to comustibles etc.

Good point, as I'm thinking of starting from scratch it wouldn't be an issue, but yes in an existing kitchen.

TBS