What's wrong with American baguettes?

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that enjoys cooking.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
The French bakers have a secret they don't want the rest of the world to know. The Viennese bakers who migrated to Paris before the French Revolution taught the Parisian Bakers how to bake bread. Rouge de Bordeaux was a common wheat variety grown in France during the 1800's. Up to 1890, European Mills stone ground wheat, producing flour using all the wheat kernel. The riser was either sourdough or Poolish. After 1890, European Mills discovered how to separate the various parts of the wheat kernel.

Rouge de Bordeaux Flour:
https://bartonspringsmill.com/products/rouge-de-bordeax-wheat

Heritage Baking - Recipes for Rustic Breads and Pastries Baked with Artisanal Flour from Hewn Bakery.
The above book contains all the formulas and techniques required to replicate Heritage recipes.
 
It's difficult for me to believe that with migrants from every nation living in the U.S., that there isn't someone classically trained from France who makes amazing baguettes. Just saying:ermm:.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North
 
It's difficult for me to believe that with migrants from every nation living in the U.S., that there isn't someone classically trained from France who makes amazing baguettes. Just saying:ermm:.

Seeeeya; Chief Longwind of the North

We moved from the big city (L.A., CA) in 2011. I don't miss it. I do miss friends...and I miss a few of the restaurants. We've made some wonderful new friends...and I've learned to make most all of the restaurant dishes that we miss.

Just saying...;)
 
Yes, there are bakeries in the US that sell proper baguettes and bread. However, I doubt you'll find them in the supermarket bread section.
I'm a Canadian, and we definitely have excellent bakeries -- and flours -- here, and I expect the US will be the same.
 
There are definitely bakeries in the United States that make proper baguettes and other baked goods, including tricky European pastries. No, they're not in supermarkets or most chain restaurants (local chains might be an exception).

The guy who opened this great bakery near me went to the Culinary Institute of America, where the curriculum is primarily based on classical French high cuisine. They have two wood-fired ovens and make a variety of delicious breads, pastries and pizzas, including baguettes. I don't know the current price, but I don't think it's $4-5.

Check it out: https://www.bakehouse757.com/ Screenshot_20220506-164933_Chrome.jpg
 
It all depends on whether an individual wants the genuine product or mass produced. The end of WW2 resulted in mass European migration to the USA, Canada and Australia. Globally, European migrant clubs exist. The cuisines are a time capsule from when the migrants left their homes. In most cases contact is word of mouth.

French Clubs USA
https://www.meetup.com/topics/french/us/
https://afusa.org/
https://www.favclub.org/

All the recipe information, I have, was obtained from the MealMaster and MasterCook recipe collections I downloaded 10 years ago. Unfortunately all the web sites and forums have disappeared.

The only active bread recipe site is:
Welcome to Bread-Bakers.com

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cajuns
Paul Prudhomme:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Prudhomme

The following books, in my collection, were authored by baking professionals.

Bread Science - The Chemistry and Craft of Making Bread by Emily Buehler
Emily Buehler is a writer in Hillsborough, North Carolina. After finishing her graduate degree in chemistry, she worked for six years as a bread baker, which led to her first book, Bread Science. Excellent scientific explanation on bread chemistry with detailed baking instruction's. Quoted by many bread baking books.

https://www.cirilhitz.com/about
Baking Artisan Bread - 10 Expert Formulas for Baking Better Bread at Home by Ciril Hitz
Baking Artisan Pastries and Breads - Sweet and Savory Baking for Breakfast, Brunch, and Beyond by Ciril Hitz

Peter Reinhart
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Reinhart
American Pie - My Search for the Perfect Pizza by Peter Reinhart
Bread Revolution by Peter Reinhart
Crust and Crumb - Master Formulas by Peter Reinhart
Peter Reinhart's Artisan Breads Every Day by Peter Reinhart
Peter Reinhart's Whole Grain Breads by Peter Reinhart, Ron Manville
The Bread Baker's Apprentice - Mastering the Art of Extraordinary Bread by Peter Reinhart


Baking Artisan Bread with Natural Starters by Mark Friend
https://www.amazon.com/Baking-Artisan-Bread-Natural-Starters/dp/144948784X

Bread Baking - An Artisan's Perspective by Daniel T. DiMuzio
https://www.amazon.com.au/Bread-Baking-Perspective-Daniel-DiMuzio/dp/0470138823
 
I don't need to know how to make a baguette to get authentic baguette. I can buy good baguette locally. I live in Greater Montreal. We eat a lot of baguette. We are fussy about our baguette. Everyone I know, buys it, locally made. I have friends who bake breads and pizza crusts, but none of those people bother to bake baguette. The stuff from the bakery is really good and very likely will be better than what can be baked at home by a non-professional baker. The bakeries have the practice and the big ovens that are well suited to baking baguette.
 
ditto what taxy said...

I have actually made baguettes but only twice - there is a lot of hands on work. I have not mastered it and don't know when or if I'll ever get around to trying again but it is certainly on my bucket list.

Although, as much as I love a good baguette, over all I prefer a long loaf of French.
 
The speed with which no preservative bread goes stale may explain why googling "french bread soup recipe" gets 174 million hits
 
I’ve had baguettes in France and in the US. There really is a difference . The same goes for croissants , and even more so. And I’ve never had an omelette in the US that compares to what I’ve had in Paris.

OTOH, you can’t get great barbecue, wings, tacos, etc in France.

[FONT=Assistant, Calibri, Segoe, Segoe UI, Candara, Optima, Arial, sans-serif]When we want a break from EU food in France, we go to [/FONT]Restaurant Courtepaille, a French fast food chain that grills excellent chicken over an open wood fire. That will pass for BBQ chicken.​
 
The speed with which no preservative bread goes stale may explain why googling "french bread soup recipe" gets 174 million hits
It's more likely that hundreds of thousands of bloggers and other people involved with food media have posted basically the same recipe over and over.
 
I’ve had baguettes in France and in the US. There really is a difference . The same goes for croissants , and even more so. And I’ve never had an omelette in the US that compares to what I’ve had in Paris.

OTOH, you can’t get great barbecue, wings, tacos, etc in France.

I have never been to France. But I try to find the best baguettes in the US with very little success. Fresh Market has some that are good and so does Publix.
Here in the south we have little opportunity to see or find any international cuisine. Also I'm not very good at bread making though like anything else, if I had the required equipment and the thirst for this knowledge I could do it.

I watched a show on TV yesterday and it was all about France and its food. I was so impressed at how they make these wonderful baguettes and croissants.
Wood fired ovens and centuries of experience. It was just plain WOW!
I have now decided (for this week) that France is on my bucket list......lol
 
I have never been to France. But I try to find the best baguettes in the US with very little success. Fresh Market has some that are good and so does Publix.
Here in the south we have little opportunity to see or find any international cuisine. Also I'm not very good at bread making though like anything else, if I had the required equipment and the thirst for this knowledge I could do it.

I watched a show on TV yesterday and it was all about France and its food. I was so impressed at how they make these wonderful baguettes and croissants.
Wood fired ovens and centuries of experience. It was just plain WOW!
I have now decided (for this week) that France is on my bucket list......lol

Have you been to Montreal? We have some pretty darned good baguettes and croissants, some baked in wood burning ovens. Some of our chefs are trained in France, so we import the centuries of knowledge. Some of them are actually French immigrants. Same language and all. If you decide to visit Montreal, let me know and I will ask around for where the currently best baguettes and croissants are made. We also have a lot of really good food other than baguettes and croissants.
 
Have you been to Montreal? We have some pretty darned good baguettes and croissants, some baked in wood burning ovens. Some of our chefs are trained in France, so we import the centuries of knowledge. Some of them are actually French immigrants.

Viennese Bakers taught the Parisians how to bake.
 
Viennese Bakers taught the Parisians how to bake.
They also taught the Danes how to make pastries. Those things that are called "Danishes", well, they sort of look like one type of Danish pastry, but that's it. They don't even vaguely remind me of real Danish pastry. I get far better Danish pastry from a second or third rate bakery in Denmark. Danish pastries are actually called "Wienerbrød" in Danish. It translates literally to "Viennese bread". That's in part because a lot of Viennese bakers immigrated to Denmark at a time when the Danish bakers were on strike and not baking any bread. The Viennese bakers baked pastries, which wasn't considered being a scab, because it wasn't bread. So, people ate the Viennese pastries and called it Viennese bread. The pastries were extremely popular, so they are still baked that way.
 
Quality, artisan, baked products is an dying art caused by multinational conglomerate corporations mass producing inferior products selling at low prices. People expect quality products at fast food prices.
 
Have you been to Montreal? We have some pretty darned good baguettes and croissants, some baked in wood burning ovens. Some of our chefs are trained in France, so we import the centuries of knowledge. Some of them are actually French immigrants. Same language and all. If you decide to visit Montreal, let me know and I will ask around for where the currently best baguettes and croissants are made. We also have a lot of really good food other than baguettes and croissants.

I have not been to Montreal. But its a great idea as France is a long way to go for bread. I did cross into Canada once via Detroit.
But it was for a day and I cannot remember what we did or what we ate. Its been a very very long time ago. Windsor I think was the town?
 
https://tasteoffrancemag.com/trending/endangered-species-the-french-baguette-faces-extinction/

Good bakeries will offer a variety of bread, including a baguette tradition, an artisan-made loaf containing just four ingredients (flour, water, yeast, salt) and no additives.

What is not mentioned in the article is pre-1890 wheat was whole, stone ground course particle wheat and the riser was sourdough or poolish. The whole, stone ground course particle wheat used to make bread with a sourdough starter can sustain life indefinitely. Refined all purpose flour using yeast is a meal filler.

The book quote below mentions whole wheat bread. There is a difference between whole, stone ground course particle wheat bread and whole wheat bread. Whole wheat flour can be manufactured using reconstituted flour containing refined flour with some of the wholemeal component added.

Source: Wheat Belly - Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight - William Davis MD

LESSONS FROM A WHEAT-FREE EXPERIMENT

An interesting fact: Whole wheat bread (glycemic index 72) increases blood sugar as much as or more than table sugar, or sucrose (glycemic index 59). (Glucose increases blood sugar to 100, hence a glycemic index of 100. The extent to which a particular food increases blood sugar relative to glucose determines that food’s glycemic index.) So when I was devising a strategy to help my overweight, diabetes-prone patients reduce blood sugar most efficiently, it made sense to me that the quickest and simplest way to get results would be to eliminate the foods that caused their blood sugar to rise most profoundly: in other words, not sugar, but wheat. I provided a simple handout detailing how to replace wheat-based foods with other low-glycemic whole foods to create a healthy diet.

After three months, my patients returned to have more blood work done. As I had anticipated, with only rare exceptions, blood sugar (glucose) had indeed often dropped from diabetic range (126 mg/dl or greater) to normal. Yes, diabetics became nondiabetics. That’s right: Diabetes in many cases can be cured—not simply managed—by removal of carbohydrates, especially wheat, from the diet. Many of my patients had also lost twenty, thirty, even forty pounds.

But it’s what I didn’t expect that astounded me.

They reported that symptoms of acid reflux disappeared and the cyclic cramping and diarrhea of irritable bowel syndrome were gone. Their energy improved, they had greater focus, sleep was deeper. Rashes disappeared, even rashes that had been present for many years. Their rheumatoid arthritis pain improved or disappeared, enabling them to cut back, even eliminate, the nasty medications used to treat it. Asthma symptoms improved or resolved completely, allowing many to throw away their inhalers. Athletes reported more consistent performance.

Thinner. More energetic. Clearer thinking. Better bowel, joint, and lung health. Time and time again. Surely these results were reason enough to forgo wheat. What convinced me further were the many instances in which people removed wheat, then permitted themselves a wheat indulgence: a couple of pretzels, a canapé at a cocktail party. Within minutes, many would experience diarrhea, joint swelling and pain, or wheezing. On again, off again, the phenomenon would repeat itself. What started out as a simple experiment in reducing blood sugars exploded into an insight into multiple health conditions and weight loss that continues to amaze me even today.
 
https://tasteoffrancemag.com/trending/endangered-species-the-french-baguette-faces-extinction/



Good bakeries will offer a variety of bread, including a baguette tradition, an artisan-made loaf containing just four ingredients (flour, water, yeast, salt) and no additives.



What is not mentioned in the article is pre-1890 wheat was whole, stone ground course particle wheat and the riser was sourdough or poolish. The whole, stone ground course particle wheat used to make bread with a sourdough starter can sustain life indefinitely. Refined all purpose flour using yeast is a meal filler.



The book quote below mentions whole wheat bread. There is a difference between whole, stone ground course particle wheat bread and whole wheat bread. Whole wheat flour can be manufactured using reconstituted flour containing refined flour with some of the wholemeal component added.



Source: Wheat Belly - Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight - William Davis MD



LESSONS FROM A WHEAT-FREE EXPERIMENT
...
The "science" in this book has been debunked by numerous scientists, such as described here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/wheat-belly-arguments-are-based-on-shaky-science-critics-say-1.2974214

But my question is, why do you think this is relevant to the question?
 

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom